math-and-meta

[neat crest]

Much easier to adjust if you just keep the primer rubber separate

[pastel obsidian]

sloops maybe?

[magic island]

Assuming you only want rubber & plastic (the formulas get a lot more unwieldy if you also want HOR/Coke/Fuel/Fabric)

let r = desired rubber and p = desired plastic

HOR Refineries = (r + p) / 90
Diluted Fuel Blenders = (2r + 2p) / 225
Residual Rubber Refineries = (r + p) / 180
Recycled Rubber Refineries = (16r + 7p) / 810
Recycled Plastic Refineries = (8r + 17p) / 810

[plain fossil]

that time has come for me to understand signals, how do i do this one

just for the 2 trains to not collide

[pastel obsidian]

1. just make two separate rails
2. just make it one big block,
3. you can get fancy and go path but not worth IMO

[plain fossil]

if i want 1 train to stop to let the other one pass

is that the fancy route?

[pastel obsidian]

just add block signals before the junction on both sides of each rail

you only have 2 trains going on this piece of rail right?

[molten gyro]

Are all trains going one direction?

[plain fossil]

nah i made 2 paths

its just one small stretch so there is no point

[magic island]

might need to slap some arrows on that picture explaining which way trains will be coming/going on each rail

[molten gyro]

Oh, I see the second branch. I would just make it a big block section

I don't think you can take advantage path signals at all

Place all the block signals before the merges @plain fossil

[plain fossil]

guys its fiiine they are separated now

the marriage didnt work out

[molten gyro]

💔

[pastel obsidian]

You could also just make less Plutonium fuel rods and reduce the ammount of sam you need

[plain fossil]

im sorry 😞

[pastel obsidian]

how are you making your non fissile uranium?

[molten gyro]

I don't like how limited sam is

[pastel obsidian]

its not that bad unless you want to get into plutonium processing.

[plain fossil]

how do i optimise trains tho

like the incoming transfer rate is 218

which is bad for me bc i want >480

oh wait i think i get it

[pastel obsidian]

It depends on that the problem is,

1. belts stop working when unloading so you should use two belts into an industrial Storage
2. Loading trains till full and unloading full trains helps with reducing downtime
3. If the train takes too long to get from A to B it reduces output

[plain fossil]

yeah 1. i figured out fast

im proud of myself for that

[pastel obsidian]

Nice

[plain fossil]

oh so i just set them all to full

[pastel obsidian]

if you need to get maximum throughput yes but it it does mean the train takes longer to load depending on your belt speed and item stack

[prisma kraken]

getting fancy with the advanced train settings often unituitively accomplishes the opposite of what you intend

it generally is better (and simpler) to just leave them running their loops w/o tweaking their config. If there is some special circumstance where you say 'if only this train was doing xyz instead, we'd have an improvement' should you try tweaking things, imho

[prisma kraken]

sam constructors are designed to be slooped, you should estimate your sam as 2x the map limit

it takes 34 sloops to convert all the map sam

[molten gyro]

Huuuuh

[prisma kraken]

what part didn't you understand?

[fringe pawn]

Isn't slooping alu+sam converters for ficsite better? You get the same amount of sam back compared to slooping 2x trigon constructirs, but you also save aluminum.

[scenic cloud]

Yea, should just be better.

[prisma kraken]

really depends on what your goal is

[magic island]

I think the one main use-case for Advanced Train settings is when you have 2+ trains on a route, and you don't want one train to do a partial load/unload just because it arrived right behind another

[fringe pawn]

It shouldn't unless you're so tight on aluminum that you're not using aluminum+sam conversion at all.

[prisma kraken]

you may be right, lemme check the numbers on that

yeah, same sloop count

its better except for the power

[brisk smelt]

fisconium is literally just not worth using

[fringe pawn]

If I recall correctly the hierarchy is ficsite, trigons, and reanimated from best to worst for sloops. Strictly in terms of resource optimization. Unless you're in some weird scenario where you need specifically lots more reanimated sam.

[prisma kraken]

trigons aren't so good because you need 3 constructors per converter

use case for needing rsam: converting caterium to bauxite for making ficsite

when you get into max nuclear numbers, it isn't un-compeling of a thing to do

[prisma kraken]

same can be said at this point about nuclear in general.

[leaden cosmos]

A few sloops and you dont need to convert any sam 🙂

[remote flame]

Pretty much just this really, #design-and-architecture message

It really isn't much less power to just sloop rocketfuel and simplify the entirety of the process, required resources / real estate (factory setup), and can always be expanded to ionized if the player ever wanted to, which in itself is not a large increase in power either.

as an example, a highly utilised (not quite maximised) blue-crater RF factory is capable of yielding 425,000MW unslooped

[leaden cosmos]

Unless we are talking max slooped nuclear. In which case your poor pc

[prisma kraken]

reading through that, i came to a different result. I tally that you can get to 1.875 tw of power with ficsonium using 2500 uranium as input (modest amt of conversion necessary)

at those numbers, you start running out of everything between the aluminum and copper and sam

[remote flame]

Yeah the post only looks at uranium fuel rods and no further, it just sinks the plutonium rods to completely eradicate the plutonium waste stage. It really comes down to how far / how many resources one wants to expend to fully 'utilise' uranium, don't get me wrong it is an awesome achievement, but not one I'm probably going to repeat on a mass scale ever again when the RF method is just far more forgiving and resource savvy for quite a substantial amount of power

[prisma kraken]

what i realized in playing with the numbers is that the encoders for the fics rods should be slooped

[leaden cosmos]

It gets more power. But the dmr cost is trivial to sam.

Somewhat better to sloop trigons resource wise

[prisma kraken]

when you do that, the plut rod power equals the fics rod power and actually ends up being a fair bit of power

well, converters for the trigons, not the trigons themselves

there's a lot of permutations i've worked through the math on, haven't done so exhaustively, but in all cases, slooping one of the two steps in the ficsonium chain yields 2x the power of plut rods alone

expensive AF to do, but that isn't bad power

[leaden cosmos]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1a-bACz1ju7ETafl1aWmKlMiCvJ9rKHO9njoILzwj6QM/edit?usp=drivesdk

❤️

[prisma kraken]

you ended up at 112 fr's/min if i'm reading correctly, when i worked through it all, i ended up finding 112.5/min as the max

(nicer number for everything - all the way down you end up with 9 or 18 machines at 250%)

[leaden cosmos]

I was only using default uranium. To get the nice numbers takes a little bit converted

[jovial jacinth]

@frank crystal diluted fuel is 50 Heavy Oil Residue to 100 Fuel....think you need to recheck your numbers

[leaden cosmos]

Based on the resources i could scale it up with converted uranium 🙂

[amber jacinth]

@glossy nebula

[glossy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/holy-moly-gif-2379897567703251318

[amber jacinth]

FR

[glossy nebula]

HOLY MOLY

I AM GOING TO DIE MAKING THAT 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[leaden cosmos]

Why isnt it using the conpacted coal to reduce sulfur?

[prisma kraken]

this is the chain that i found yields the most power/ore without getting nasty math:

[small heron]

What is more power efficient, to have one drill at 120% or two, one at 100% and second on 20%?

[remote flame]

If your max power in that sheet is summed to 1.47TW, it really would be more effective to just utilise 2000 Uranium and use Infused Uranium Cell and Uranium Fuel Unit alt recipes, expend 80 sloops there for a potential power output of 1.2TW, then use 20 sloops for 2 power boosters (without even thinking of feeding them alien power matrices) and that gives you 1.44TW, completely eradicating the need to go further than sinking the plutonium fuel rods (and any use of SAM all together) and just a tiny bit cheaper on your sloops too 😛

[prisma kraken]

you can squeeze a little more power out of it by chaning non-fiss to fertile

[glossy nebula]

and what the fuck do i do with the 3.200 compacted coal

[remote flame]

More power, turbo fuel lol

[amber jacinth]

sink it? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[prisma kraken]

turbo diamons, compacted steel or coal gen

[pulsar notch]

So 2304 fuel gens at 200% to make 1.152TW?

[prisma kraken]

(or just sink it)

[violet halo]

Two at 60% I think, actually. Definitely not the one at 120%.

[remote flame]

Only thing I will say however is Nitro Rocket Fuel method is very forgiving on the Oil needed and the factory logistics, but incredibly harsh on Sulfur (56% worse I think from memory?) , 20% worse on Nitrogen, and needs Coal. but if you don't care about sulfur go ham haha

[glossy nebula]

what if i find a way to dupe my soomersloop and i put a soomersloop in each machine and then produce just a little bit more

[glossy nebula]

lightweight

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it is much easier to build, but the comparison with it against blended tf+default rf is dreadful

[glossy nebula]

ill also have to sink 3.200 polymer resin byproduct of the heavy oil residue

[unborn ermine]

I would shoot for 1920 at 240%
thats 480 blueprints of 4 fuel gens

[prisma kraken]

i did blended tf into rf with 900 oil, 600 sulfur and 800 nitro/min, it kicks off 600/min resin which i'm using to make rubber->plastic and the compacted coal is still unused

i may do something cheeky and use compacted steel to make cannisters and heavy tf to convert some remnant yellow fuel into packaged tf, but i'm undecided on that all

[unborn ermine]

This would be 32 pipes at 600, each doing a section, or you could lower the amount per pipe to be safe with max flow and add 2 or more sections. @amber jacinth
( so love the math with a 240% clock )

[remote flame]

I felt so geriatric when I was ranting about the best steel recipe to use and only realized when someone pointed out 'they made the compacted steel ingot like, 4x better than what it was pre 1.0' haha

[unborn ermine]

its just slooooooooow now

thats the only thing thats "bad" about it, besides needing sulfur, or a RF setup making compacted.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it got buffed and nerfed. imho, it is practically unusable now

the yield is super-nice, but your need for steel in 1.0 is so much less

[unborn ermine]

Looking back at this, 52x blueprints per section, 208 gens, 520/min RF per pipe.
just have to mess with production plans to get that flowing nicely

#HyperfocusMoments

[prisma kraken]

any which way, compacted steel is an endgame thing as a build because it just needs a lot of power. There's just not much steel needed once you take care of hmf's

[dark hornet]

hope this is the right channel for this: i've got an aluminum factory set up running 4x refineries with sloppy alumina into 4x refineries doing basic aluminum scrap. i've got the pipes from the scrap output connected to the input pipes of the sloppy alumina (480 water out, 800 in needed) and also have 3 water pumps with one underclocked to 80 (for 320 total). theoretically this should be self-sustaining as long as i sink the overflow output so the downline stuff keeps running, right? i came back today and it's stalled out from the water pipes being full, any ideas?

[pulsar notch]

I bet mk 1 pipes somewhere are the culprit

[dark hornet]

my only thought is because it's not a complete loop (i put a buffer on one side of the output to flush before i had the line 100% operational) there are pipe segments filling with over 600 at points and it's not all flowing together

no mk1 pipes, made the whole build after unlocking mk2

first pic is the inflow to the sloppy alumina and second pic is the outflow with the buffer, the output goes back to the input below the floor on the far side of both, and the inflow from the pumps is the nearer floor pipe in the first picture

if i connect both ends of that loop would it fix my problem?

[prisma kraken]

pictured is sloppy + electro, but this same build works with sloppy+default with slightly different numbers. Note the mk1 pipe connecting everything

the freshwater feed is being piped in from some distance away and up a fair bit of altitude

the piping for aluminum is super-finicky

[dark hornet]

got it, yeah i think my junction in the top left there is bottlenecking the whole process because that's where the extractor inflow comes in and where the scrap outflow connects

[prisma kraken]

also really double check your numbers (i'm sure you have) and visit the machines to make sure what you think they're set to is correct

if anything in the processing chain stutters at all, too much freshwater enters the system

also, unrelated, but topical, the buffer just time-shifts the issue and makes troubleshooting it all harder

[dark hornet]

yeah i just checked it and every downstream output is being dumped to a sink, but i do think it's just that corner of pipes

i was meaning to get rid of the buffer anyways

[prisma kraken]

i've run into some 'doh' things with aluminum where i missed having a mk5 belt for the scrap or an ingot producer clocked wrong

[dull leaf]

Hey does anyone know what this extra 0.03 refinery is for?

[prisma kraken]

one that i had that drove me nuts for a while is that i had a fluid tank constructor that i had moved to a more convenient spot, but forgot to clock right

[prisma kraken]

that just looks like something scim does weird in the calculator, satisfactorytools.com generally gives better results

[dull leaf]

oh I didn't even know there was another site lol thanks

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's a few out there sftools is generally considered the best for prod planning

[dull leaf]

oh wow I already love it for the input changes

[marsh gate]

Hey. So I'm trying to figure out the math of Screws.
I have (in a test I'm trying to do the math for) three Constructors, maxed with Power Shards + Somersloop. All three are using Cast Screw.
250 x 3 is 750/m, which needs three 37.5/m Iron Ingots (one per Constructor) to satisfy their requirement.
...So am I wrong somehow thinking I'm going to need 2,250 Iron Ingots/m to satisfy its demand?

Or should I be doing 37.5 x 3 (which is 112.5 Iron Ingots/m)?

Is there a way to simplify this math for the future? Because I'm trying to do a friend's "3 for 3" approach. Having three Constructors producing the same (final) resource.

[pulsar notch]

112.5

Bear in mind that 250/min requires its own dedicated mk 3 belt

[marsh gate]

I can do up to MK5 if needed.

[pulsar notch]

Mk 5 is 720, so that still needs multiple belts

[marsh gate]

Well that's fine, I'll figure that out. Though, as I asked, is there an easier way to do the math for this '3 Constructors with 3 Power Shards + Somersloop' approach?

Think it had to do with dividing something, but I forgot.

[pulsar notch]

Side note note, but I'd personally never treat screws as a final product, especially not in those quantities

[marsh gate]

They'll definitely be used for other areas. This is just to have enough in the DD cloud that my buffer chests don't run out.

Because with my current setup, I'm using more than I can produce and I'm trying to fix that (by producing more).

[pulsar notch]

Try to get the steel screws recipe if you need a lot of screws

[vapid gorge]

780

[plain fossil]

bros i did it. i switched to turbo. These are using 300m3, but thats just half, i have 300m3 more to go.

[normal gate]

Whats the general rule of thumb in 1.0 with uranium fuel rods to power plants ratio? ie, X rods a min can support Y plants?

[remote flame]

Oh so the standard burn time is 0.2 uranium rods/min to 1x 100% reactor. So 1 rod/min for 5 reactors

But a lot of people like fully overclocking the reactors to 250% because it then works to 600m^3/min per reactor for water (gets its own dedicated full mk2 pipe) and 0.5 rods for each reactor, so much nicer to work with and saves a lot of floor space!

So in that case, 1 rod for 2x 250% plants

[normal gate]

so if doing the overclock if my brain is braining right, its 1 rod for every 2 reactors, instead of a 1/5?

hahaha you beat me

[remote flame]

Yeah I totally don't directly answer questions all the time lol, so I end up editing posts all the time.. like this one shh

[normal gate]

appricate the infos 😄

[remote flame]

For additional info if it also helps;

If you use the Uranium Fuel Rod alternate recipe, which makes 0.6/min at 100%, you could overclock this manufacturer to 250% and make 1.5/min, which is 3x 250% reactors 😛 really eases the maths and floor space at the nasty expense of power I suppose haha

Or the default recipe of 0.4/min, so full overclock = 1/min, or 2x 250% reactors 🙂

[normal gate]

then just throw in some sommersloops into the manufacturers and its over 9000

[gray night]

yo quick question, is can I use normal coal instead of petroleum coke?

[remote flame]

Umm what production line you using the coal / petroleum coke on?

[gray night]

electrode circuit board

[remote flame]

Ohhhh, ah no
The recipe calls for petroleum coke, it is considered a different product

I asked because you can avoid coal or coke for other products (like rocket fuel for example) haha, didn't realise it was regarding for the same recipe

[gray night]

welp that's rather unfortunate

😭

[magic island]

yeah they are usable for many of the same purposes, but for recipes they are not interchangeable

[prisma kraken]

fun fact: vehicles have more range running on coke instead of coal due to its larger stack size

not a game winning factoid at all 🙂

[vapid gorge]

only about 20% further since per unit coke has less energy

[past reef]

is merging into a full mk6 belt a potential issue

I'm seeing aluminum scrap from slightly overclocked electrode scrap backing up inside the refinery, merging 420 420 360

all 3 input are mk4, I'm seeing slight back up 80 80 15 inside the refineries

[leaden cosmos]

Mk6 isnt quite perfect at 1200. It drops a few when lots of computation happens nearby

[past reef]

if by nearby you mean on the belt then mk6 lines should do heavy overclocking just like 600 pm pipe?

I never seen this happen on mk6 from miner

[pastel obsidian]

how much backup are we talking about

[past reef]

I can just do 2 belts out, just curious

[pastel obsidian]

a little bitor its full of scrap?

[past reef]

a little increase over time

[leaden cosmos]

It seems to be a small timing issue.

A bit of processing lag leads to like 1185/min at the worst ive seen

[past reef]

those extract 3 machines are now 146 142 1 backing up

[vast jungle]

so the MK6 belt is the new MK2 pipe?

[leaden cosmos]

I suspect they are both related

[past reef]

maybe lol, maybe it's time to stress test mk6

it does have zero issue before splitting and merging I suppose it's not as bad

[leaden cosmos]

My guess is floating point precision meets unaccounted time in computations

Leading to 598 instead of 600 when it needs to compute a lot

[past reef]

but then there's no backing up issue on merging 4 300 aluminum ingot lines into 1

maybe it's just merging 3 lines which is bad, I'll think about it later

[vernal swallow]

Quick question, are there splitters that can split up into 5 outputs?
Or is the max 3

[vapid gorge]

I haven't had issues with it, unclear how widespread the issue is.

also mk2 pipes work fine. You just can't treat pipes like belts

[frosty owl]

Unless something changed that I'm not aware of, that shouldn't be the case

Speaking of. I did some very crude testing, but the throughput loss is very obvious to me too @prisma kraken. Atm I think of MK6 as <1150/min

Interestingly (and worringly) the issue seem different from before as I didn't have any overflow from smart splitter in my miner-belts-sink setup... Just the miner piling up items; in other words it was as if the game didn't manage to push 1200/min from miner to belt in the first place

[leaden cosmos]

that is why I'm thinking they are related

in my weird head its similar to packetised networks like Automotive CAN,

If you miss your window to send your chunk of data, you miss that slice, but as your still next in line you grab the next spot in the queue and delay everything else by 1 slice

[frosty owl]

I don't agree, unless something about pipes changed that I'm not aware of yet, there is no similarity there.

Pipes can handle max throughput by building things with adequate care; belts can't, regardless of how you build them.

[timid zenith]

I should get a lot of coal

[plush swan]

it aint much, but finished the input stuff for coal generators. for some reason the most aesthetic one was also the most efficient 😁
(water on top, coal below, cuz was way easier to lift the water before spreading)

[past reef]

I'm not having issue on a 1200 line from miner multiple times with bauxite and caterium and sulfur

Why are the conveyor lifts not aligned to the floor of the logistics space 😦

[plush swan]

havent seen a splitter that could do 5 yet
gotta do some fancy yourself

[plush swan]

the lifts on top of glass floor?

[past reef]

The one below the glass, a couple looks like 1m off the ground cause the belts were angled up

I never did much architecture tho not sure if floor holes make it happen

[plush swan]

they are
placed em based on the roof, not splitter, cuz otherwise the pipe/conveyor floor holes arent perfectly aligned
yea could also change up the aligning so everything matches better, but cant be bothered to now

[past reef]

Makes sense, didnt look like you were calculating the distance for an insta connect lift so height difference like that might happen

[plush swan]

didnt calculate any distance. just tried something and saw it did fine

[somber sphinx]

The goal was max nuclear power but ill probably do that

[hushed kettle]

you have to feed one part back in somewhere though I don't remember how

oh wait actually

you just split it 6 ways and feed one back in

[vast jungle]

you mean split 6 ways, right?

[hushed kettle]

oh yeah sorry

[vast jungle]

off-by-one error... you are in good company 😉

[hushed kettle]

i wonder if that actually tracks down to 1/5 though

doing a rough calculation it seems to add 1/4th to the items running on the initial belt

[vast jungle]

it does... think of it as a black box... all six outputs of the splitter have the always the same output... so as long as your input belt doesn't block, the split must work

you just have to keep the merged pathway in mind... if this overflows the splitter breaks...

[hushed kettle]

yeah, I was worried about the input belt clogging up but that shouldn't happen

[vast jungle]

so either you have to use a faster belt than the input, or split it in two

[hushed kettle]

I'd calculate what the limit is but I haven't done them yet so

[vast jungle]

its just that the input must only be 5/6 of the capacity of the merged belt... because it will be merge with 1/6 of itself

wait... math mistake ^^

or better: "it depends on what you base the proportion on"

[hushed kettle]

I've done the first 8 merges or so and it seems to converge to 5/4ths

[vast jungle]

x (input) + 1/6 * x = 100% (merged belt)

[hushed kettle]

mhm, but remember to keep in mind that extra 1/6 will become an extra 7/36 and so on

I'll do it properly as soon as i get some paper

[vast jungle]

=> 7/6 * x = 100%
=> x = 100% *6/7
=> x ~= 85.71%

but thats when you start with the "merged belt" capacity... you can also ask "how fast must the merged belt be for input x"

(hopefully I did not make another mistake ^^)

[hushed kettle]

no no this math is spot on

just remember this is only one round of the whole

i don't know if that makes sense lol

[vast jungle]

of course the 1:5 assumes that the 5 outputs don't block

[hushed kettle]

yeah if they do it gets messed up

a sink is mandatory for this because if you don't put it and backup creates you're screwed

[vast jungle]

I always manifold outside nuclear power, so its a non-issue for me 😉

[vernal swallow]

omg that is smart af
Thanks
I did real big split, like 6 or 7 layers of splitters each feeding 3 splitter and then merged them into the amount I needed it

[hushed kettle]

i did the calculations: remember to only have 5/6ths of the belt's maximum capacity coming in at most

and no worries!

[vast jungle]

you can add a checker with a smart splitter ^^

[warm bane]

Is there a clean ratio of rocket fuel ->generator ?
With fuel i's easy since it's 20/min for each generator, but on the wiki it's this very much not clean 4.16667/min (I assume it's infinitely repeating 6 at the end)
I did a little bit of math and I think for 3 gens you'd get 15/min, but is that right ?

[wind spade]

3 gens are 3x4.16666, which is 12.5

[hushed kettle]

damn beat me at it

but yeah he's right

[warm bane]

Damn I really can't math anymore

So 24 gens is 100/min

[hushed kettle]

mhm

[deft lichen]

For context, all per-minute values in the game are derived. What matters is always the cycle duration and amount per cycle. In the case of generators, it's calculated from the fuel MJ and generator ME

[fickle roost]

Are drones the best way to transport nitrogen?

[wind spade]

"best" depends on how you define "best" 🙂

[fickle roost]

Is train better?

[violet halo]

If you do the generators in multiples of 6, it comes out as a whole number.

[vast jungle]

what greeny says is it depends on distance, terrain, existing infrastructure (for fuel or rail lines) and amount of nitrogen you need...

[fickle roost]

It's a long way but there is a train line semi nearby

[vast jungle]

so you could try both... just use half of the train for moving the bottles back 😉

it most likely more a matter of taste... both would work, as would a LONG pipe

[outer vale]

this doesn't change the question 😅

[past reef]

depends on throughput, even with good compression ratio you don't really want to drone ~ 6 stacks per minute of packaged nitrogen

[astral warren]

In vanilla I'd probably have a packager train loop to transport it long-distance

[brisk smelt]

most probably

you can do like 900 N2/min per drone port usually

depends on distance

[hushed kettle]

(it's a long ass belt)

(it's always the belt)

(in my opinion and tastes at least)

[warm bane]

Can't you just pipe the nitrogen ? Since it's a gas it's way easier than oil or water no ?

[hushed kettle]

yeah i just like the look of belts better

anyway, i have a question: i've built a manifold of 25 assemblers producing modular frames. 300 bars and 75 plates go in, 50 frames come out

but the bar line isn't moving smoothly

it's like dashing and stopping then dashing and stopping

why is that?

nevermind i'm dumb the plates are just taking a while to get there

[timid zenith]

Grahh I need more foundations

I want my foundations reach that coal place

[prisma kraken]

thanks!

[frank crystal]

Actually, its more basic than that...
#satisfactory message

[brisk smelt]

belting is always better, consistent fluid thrpughput

[hushed kettle]

nothing beats a good ol belt

(as long as it's mk5 or lower)

[warm bane]

I mean, if you fill the pipes it works well ? I never had any issues with pipes between resource well and first consumer steps

[half cargo]

i won't lie, these both kinda seem nuts

just storing harddrives rn but if they're both good, i'd like to pick one now so the other goes back to the pool, which one should I pick?

[astral warren]

Coated Canisters seem like they could be good for early to mid game fuel setups where they aren’t packaged via fluid tanks yet

[magic island]

Silicon Circuit board is great in its own right, and the fact that it skips Oil is a bonus in areas where you don't have it set up

I rarely find use for the Canister alts, since the main locations I pack up fluids are Oil facilities, where the plastic is right there. Or in transport loops where the canisters get reused and it doesn't matter how you initially make them.

[half cargo]

yeah that seems reasonable

also apparently I literally have every recipe now since the latest harddrive only gave one option D:

[magic island]

there will be more as you progress to new tech

[half cargo]

i think I also heard heavy oil residue is insane, or did I pick that up wrong?

[remote flame]

Pretty much as @magic island said above, It's situational to use alt Canister recipes and generally depend where you are at in the game too.
One thing I definitely use Coated Iron Canisters for is Mid-game BioFuel (HUB handles any Leaves/Wood > Biomass > Solid Biofuel > Liquid BIofuel [w. Water] ), since almost any playthrough I do has the HUB not near Oil, it makes this far more streamline not having oil as a requirement!

[half cargo]

because i'm about to get into oil and i got it sitting there waiting

[north mauve]

If it takes me 50hrs to get 500 coupons, how much does it take to get the next 500? Assuming I idle.

[half cargo]

about that...

i may have acted financially irresponsibly...

but yeah I defo grabbed the circuit boards now, seems very reasonable honestly

[magic island]

the HOR alt is the most resource-efficient first step for oil production. it can be used with the diluted fuel alts to make an absurd amount of fuel, which can in turn be fed into a Recycled Plastic/Rubber loop to make an absurd amount of those

[half cargo]

oh lord

that sounds promising

[north mauve]

Basically you add water to double your fuel amount, and then you can convert fuel 1:1 with plastic or rubber, I believe

[half cargo]

do you mean diluted packaged fuel or is there one for diluted fuel itself that I haven't found yet?

[north mauve]

When you reach blenders, you can skip the packaging

But there's a large gap in time between those, if you happen to get all the alts early

[magic island]

Diluted Packaged Fuel is essentially the same recipe as Diluted Fuel (same overall ratio of product in/out), but uses extra steps with packagers to get around lack of blenders

[remote flame]

Pretty much the cost is no different between Diluted Packaged Fuel (2 Packagers and a Refinery for the loop) and Diluted Fuel (Blender). I just like the Blender alternative because then I don't have to load up a whole heap of empty canisters lol

[half cargo]

so until I have blenders it'd make sense to take the packaged one, right?

[oblique hollow]

if you want more fuel, yes

[half cargo]

to be fair, with my amount of liquid biofuel, I can throw that into some fluid containers and use it for an emergency biofuel power plant or something and get back my 89K canisters lmao

[magic island]

tbh the best use for liquid biofuel is in the jetpack; it has gentle thrust and very long sustain, so it's the coziest way to float around your factory until you get the hoverpack

[amber umbra]

A pleasing, gentle thrust with excellent duration. Would recommend.

[remote flame]

Umm so this one Im rusty on but if I recall, it's something like;
Cumulative Cost for the first 'n' Coupons is given by;
Cost(n) = 250/27 * n^3 - 125/3 * n^2 + 3125/3 *n - 1500 %Assuming the nth coupon is a multiple of 3.

So for the 999th Coupon (multiple of 3);
Cost(999) = 9,190,965,000 Points
Now you said you already had 500 Coupons. Is this for your total playthrough so far? If not...
To work out the amount of coupons you have collected in total, you can look at the AWESOME Sink as it ticks over to a new coupon and shows the full 'points' worth to get to the next coupon. Then use;
Current Coupon 'n' = (sqrt((cost-1000)/250+1)*3) %Where Cost = roughly how many points the next coupon is 'away'
If this is your first 500 Coupons however, then using a multiple of 3 (498 Coupons)
Cost(498) = 1,133,757,750 Points

So you have to earn another Cost(999)-Cost(498) = 8,057,207,250 Points. (Roughly, I did use multiples of 3 instead of the exact numbers because maths is easier and im tired haha)

By chance, what is your current Points/Min in the Awesome Sink? then I can tell ya haha (since obviously you would've made more items as you progressed through the game, hence a higher and higher Points sunk/min over the hours)

[spare jolt]

Silicon CB and crystal computer allow you to produce computers without oil products

[half cargo]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[mint sparrow]

Blue creator is just meant to be a powerplant

there is everything for 240x rocket fuel generators

Do you know what is the maximum?

240 generators is 60 gigawatts of energy

[amber jacinth]

Maximum of what?

[north mauve]

It was all hypothetical, I don't even have 500 yet.

That's a lot to write out, I was expecting a quick answer. I hope it doesn't look like I was xkcd nerd sniping!

If I'm looking at that correctly, the first 500 are only ~1/9th of the way there in points?

[north mauve]

I assume full output of all the oil nodes here, which I believe is much more than 240 generators. Muuuuch more. Unless it's capped by sulfur or something.

[remote flame]

Yeah, it ramps up exponentially 🙂 but the equations are there if you ever do want a hypothetical answer haha

[half cargo]

soooo.... i did the math by hand because I wasn't sure how to really use the satis calculator properly for this, but does this look right..?

[mint sparrow]

i did some math and if i import 1770 crude oil i can do 960 rocket fuel generators

[north mauve]

(please put shards in your generators)

[mint sparrow]

Btw it would consume: 4320 crude oil, 1600 nitrogen gas (total overclocked maximum in blue crator), 400 water, 200 iron, 1520 coal and sulfer

[mint sparrow]

it would be interesting to build 960 fuel generators Ha ha

[north mauve]

So, yes, but that's a very low amount of plastic. Is that just the byproduct for maximizing fuel amount?

[mint sparrow]

240 gigawatts of power. That should be enough for this gameplay

[north mauve]

My tower was a + shape with 4 gens in each arm, so 16 per floor. It's 283m tall and that's just 144. I can't imagine building it straight up to fit 960. Then again if I were to make such a monster, the building would be 2-4x as wide.

[north mauve]

I would hope, haha.

[half cargo]

yee, pretty much

but I mean is 120 plastic a min not enough? O_o

[north mauve]

A single manufacturer producing supercomputers (at a rate of 2/min ish) uses about 300 plastic without any alts

[half cargo]

but wouldn't that be a problem for later stages? since i haven't even completed phase 3 yet

[frosty owl]

Expanding on that after I turned on a facility using 1200/min and seeing it work fine (surprisingly)...
The issue (in my save) doesn't seem to be that the belts can't handle 1200/min, but rather that the miner (or any machine/single source?) can't quite push that much/min on the belt. Since my setup merged stuff all the way up to 1200/min (two lines of 2x600 copper Ingots for Nuclear Pasta), it seems like the items have the chance to get on the belt so long as it's "gradual"

I haven't monitored it continuously for longer than a couple minutes though... (the constructors needing 600/min each didn't go offline once during this time)

[north mauve]

There's nothing stopping you from just leaving it as is and building a second factory with the same recipes and same inputs, but with a bunch of recycler alts to make that plastic and rubber amounts jump way up.

I built my first oil factory for 840 plastic and 240 rubber, and haven't really had to touch it since.

[half cargo]

hmmmmmm

now i'm not sure what to do D:

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's in-line with what i've observed - the miner really doesn't seem to be putting stuff on belt at speed, but somehow things are still being consumed. It is time consuming and error prone to get any exact measures, and i haven't really tried to set up good experiments for it all yet

[north mauve]

I made a lifetime supply of energy separately, out of rocket fuel.

Remember there's no optimal way of doing any of this. I was just saying that plastic amount seems a little low, and I needed plastic very quickly after building my plastic factory.

[frosty owl]

Me neither, this is all coming just from normal playthrough observations ahah
I was ready to change the beltwork into 4 600/min belts, but... I'll take it 🤷‍♂️

[half cargo]

hmm, that's fair

my idea was to just have 120 of each as personal supply, for crafting, buildings, coated concrete etc

[prisma kraken]

something else i'll note is that the issue appears much less pronounced with lower video quality settings

[half cargo]

and once I need it for a factory to have a separate production line for that specific purpose / factory

[frosty owl]

Oh side note, and sushi-balancing (with programmable splitters) seems to be working fine with MK6 belts, same as usual...

[north mauve]

I still haven't done sushi belts except for my meat/plant sorter

[prisma kraken]

i haven't really looked at any extensive sushi

[frosty owl]

Sushi is love, sushi is life

[north mauve]

Sushi is mess, sushi is stress

[prisma kraken]

i'm using it sparingly where justified

[frosty owl]

I'm finishing a single-input-only playthrough 😁

[north mauve]

Wtf

[frosty owl]

And I just clogged my nuclear by forgetting one nuke off 😅

[half cargo]

this might be a really dumb question, but can you technically make a loop between recycled plastic and recycled rubber? since recycled rubber takes 6 plastic, making 12 rubber, and recycled plastic needs 6 rubber to make 12 plastic

[north mauve]

YUP

Wanna see a disaster?

[half cargo]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[half cargo]

good or bad disaster?

[fringe pawn]

What exactly has been discovered with MK6 imprecision? Is it perhaps a visual error only and all underlying machines are actually running at 100%? If all underlying machines are running at 100% maybe everything is okay?

[north mauve]

It's actually very well organized and orderly

[frosty owl]

Rather than looping, I always build them in tandem and send half of the output to the input (so I need to pre-fill manually with some Plubber first)

[half cargo]

yee that's what I meant, looping might've not been the best choice of words, but basically one machine feeding the other, who's output feeds the prior machine

[half cargo]

basically two machines feeding each other while sending half of the output out

[half cargo]

i respect you so much for doing this on paper but oh boy, lemme try and dive into this lmao

[frosty owl]

AFAIK: Trying to push 1200/min on a belt leaves items in the miner (dunno if this is true for any source like a machine or container), but if you just merge items on it up to max capacity it seems fine...?
Also floor holes on 1m foundations hurt throughput a lot

[north mauve]

I did the long way to avoid that, and I also avoided using any shards. I built this before I had a hoverpack so I didn't even put it in a building, it basically looks like my draw sprawled across foundation in the blue crater

[half cargo]

thing is I kinda struggle doing all this with satis calculator or some other tool, so handplanning / calculating it is kinda tedious, since I gotta kinda shift and match numbers until they work D:

[frosty owl]

I merge all plastic, send half to the rubber and half to the factory output
Same for the rubber
(Except I usually mix them too, but whatever)

[north mauve]

This was the last thing I did before using the calculator for everything.

[half cargo]

ooh that's what you mean

lemme hop on my creative save and see if I can put to life what I was thinking of

[frosty owl]

You can do a loop and rely on overflow splitters too, but I find that less intuitive to deal with

[half cargo]

i am already in awe of trying to put 120 power gens in a building

but I'm probably not going to put the actual generators inside, just the 82 refineries and the 80 packagers

or I overclock the gens

[frosty owl]

If you've been using SCIM, I strongly suggest getting familiar with SFTools instead

[half cargo]

oh, imma look that up in a sec

[north mauve]

If you put shards in a blueprint, you can place the gens with shards already in them.

[north mauve]

What's the difference?

[half cargo]

this alone is probably going to save me 5 migranes, thank you so much lmao

[half cargo]

i was thinking of something like this

splitters splitting to the left and right respectively onto a bus for plastic and one for rubber

and below they connect to the respective other refinery

[thorny root]

What is he most critically endangered late game resource for people doing mega nuclear setups? I know what the calculator says it is, but that is not really the most realistic answer, because it tries to hyper focus one thing and there's really just so much more going on than what it can focus on...

Like... I mean after you've already collected all the nodes, you're making the best use of your alt recipes, and you're still scared you're gonna not have enough: What resource

In y'alls experience.

[eager solar]

I don't have the experience but wouldn't it be sam, considering it can convert other resources? unless you're not counting it in the raw resources

[thorny root]

It looks like... quartz.. to me. I'm excluding sam because that's automatically the thing you go to when you run out of the thing you need

because what you said

I didn't want the calculator preemptively converting before it ran out, confusing the actual sam usage required with what it decided to do just because it could.

[eager solar]

might also depend on what kind of alts you abused elsewhere, like there is a ton of good caterium-based alts, if you used those a lot in previous factories you may be lacking in cat for a mega setup, stuff like that

[thorny root]

I'm hoping someone with massive scale late game experience comments.

[jovial jacinth]

One way to prevent the sam conversion recipes is to take Converters away as a usable building....assuming your plan doesn't need them for another step, of course.

In that scenario you'll have to hand-eliminate the conversion options

[thorny root]

I know how to work the calculator.

[jovial jacinth]

sounds like you didn't, but by your tone I can see you don't deserve help, carry on

[fringe pawn]

With or without permanently storing plutonium waste? Do you specifically want to use Ficsonium?

[thorny root]

Ah, a true consideration to the question! Thank you mah dude for your time. I do not want to store plutonium or any other waste. I am not specifically seeking to use ficsonium at this time HOWEVER i am looking at the possibilty of it actually being worth it when putting sloops in just the right places. i'm currently on google sheets nerding away but in a bubble without a clue as to some of the actual usage rates of late game materials.

I realize the calculator can very specifically calculate a product line, chain, and even quite specifically but it is not a replacement for real world experience of the whole map and the shortages players encounter for... their entire factories.

[fringe pawn]

Ficsonium is only worth it if you specifically want to do it for fun. I'm not aware of anyone who has found it to be useful. Strictly speaking in terms of using all planetary resources for optimal sink points, without storing plutonium waste, I believe every solution (multiple people working independently using different tools) has found uranium fuel rods and sinking plutonium fuel rods, combined with rocket fuel to be the optimal solution.

[thorny root]

Right. Well I'm not really targeting max points. I'm targeting max efficient resource usage, points value as a metric, but largely be damned.

So similar goal but different metrics.

I don't think I'm going to actuall end up losing power going with ficsonium though I know it takes a buttload of resources to get rid of all the waste. Resources that I know you folks value as ticket points.

That said... I'm not set on it either.

I don't care about ticket points per minute.

Just efficiency

(not to the degree that I'm going to underclock machines to save power. No. Screw that)

[fringe pawn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1gkzv9w/satisfactorylp_for_10_endgame_optimizer_achieving/

This one might specifically interest you because it strategically both overclock and underclocks.

[thorny root]

Oh, of course someone's already thought of this.

[fringe pawn]

It's for maximum sink points but you can apply the same clocking principles.

[thorny root]

Does he sloop his sam and fuel rods?

Because that's what I'm looking at doing.

[fringe pawn]

No, it uses them on warp drives.

However for your consideration, to get more SAM and aluminum, I would sloop the converter step.

That gives you both more aluminum and more SAM

Both are bottleneck resources

[thorny root]

I can double the sam in the game at step 1 with 34 sloops on 34 250% converters. And they don't come into play again until like you said... aluminum. And yeah, that's the obvious next place. Ficsonium. We're ont he same page.

But also parts of the fuel rod process.

Specifcally the parts that touch these first two.

[half cargo]

@north mauve you did get me thinking, you think this would be a more sensical split?

[thorny root]

I'm going to read what you linked. Thanks for that.

[fringe pawn]

I would caution you against using sloops at the reanimated SAM step. You will create more SAM in the end by slooping either the ficsite or ficsite trigon step, on a per sloop basis.

[thorny root]

I understand slooping the last step is the best, but I think there's enough shortage to hit both ends with this.

I may find that I'm wrong as soon as I run the real numbers though.

Fuel rods doesn't seem like a waste at all. It's a very small number of machines at the end doing most of the heavy lifting.

But you may be right about the constructor step.... I think I said convertor earlier. Sorry. Sleepy.

[fringe pawn]

If you need tons of reanimated SAM and can't free it up by slooping ficsite converters and trigon constructors, slooping reanimated SAM makes sense.

[thorny root]

Well it's not that I need reanimated sam... but given the way the constructor works, and sloops... two independedly fairly interesting game mechanics, combined are kinda unlimited cosmic power territory.

So... I don't think we've really learned all there is to learn here yet.

Or maybe there really is a clever calculator out there someone whipped up that has figured it all out. I haven't seen it, haha.

But I should probably read that reddit post.

o7

[fringe pawn]

I'm not aware of any that are fully designed for sloops, due to the fact that you can use one two three or four in manufacturers for instance.

[thorny root]

Apparently this one you linked is. It's not GUI based and the command line options are not entirely documented but it is apparently the powerful tool we were just dreaming about.

I'd have to start playing with it and see, but the only question is if it can be optimized for things other than what it was tuned for to start with...

and with how much work XD

[half cargo]

actually, imma just max out power, not worry about that for a good while, I feel like there's enough oil around the map for me to not really miss out using those two normal and impure nodes solely for power

[prisma kraken]

...or both

i think you are correct that the converters are the best place for the sloops, but if you have spare sloops, nothing wrong with slooping the RSAM constructors too

[fringe pawn]

Yep, overall you can more than triple SAM most likely. At some point something else will become the bottleneck resource though.

[prisma kraken]

one other place i'm looking at sloops is going through quartz->caterium->bauxite or cat->uranium

getting that 4x from it kind of seems a thing

[fringe pawn]

A darkhorse sloop candidate might actually be turbo diamonds. That's 25 packaged turbofuel and 375 coal created per sloop.

[prisma kraken]

i'd say copper->baux too, but chances are you'd rather just use that for pasta

[fringe pawn]

Copper -> bauxite also feels obnoxious due to using copper in sheets.

[prisma kraken]

turbodiamond is a darkhorse without slooping. that recipe is really good if you're looking to need mass amts of diamond/tcrystal

[fringe pawn]

Turbo is also very power efficient.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you can really trim down sheets though

there's no component in the game that needs sheets

ai limiters used to, but that was the only one

[thorny root]

@fringe pawnOkay I finished. Yeah that entire post is chock full of exactly the kind of useful insights I was hoping for to continue with my plans. Thank you so very much for that.

[prisma kraken]

that being said, copper rotor is a really good recipe with the right alts

as is silicon cb

[mint sparrow]

Im in a tricky situation, does anyone have an idea how to transport 1500 crude oil per minute across the whole map?

[thorny root]

@fringe pawnThis is what I'm working on. A far less automated calculator that lets me dissect the lines and where sloops can do the most damage on return 😄

But I haven't even gotten to that part yet. A calculator needs data. And we're on data entry.

[leaden cosmos]

if your not using sloops, its SAM, then its aluminium

[thorny root]

Where people put their sloops depends on their end goals, alt recipes, and world domination parameters.

But generally speaking I agree with you.

[leaden cosmos]

as in you cant make enough trigons with the default map amounts 😄

[thorny root]

for what

[mint sparrow]

i gotta get crude oil from sea shore to blue crator since, there is not enough

[leaden cosmos]

max uranium, min plutonium, ficsonium
hits the map limit on sam

[thorny root]

Can you expand on that a little bit please?

[magic island]

what is the Crude being used for? does the Crude absolutely need to be transported to the crater for processing? (as opposed to being processed where it is, and then sending the product over)

[mint sparrow]

240 gigawatt rocket fuel factory

i suppose i can process it into fuel

it will cut the size by half i think

but than there is the distance of about 4km and that the train network is already used

[magic island]

my general advice on transportation is, think about the reason you're bringing an item/resource to a certain location instead of processing it where it is

I think it would generally be much easier to process each oil source separately-- bringing the RF ingredients to each oil location, and also burning the RF in generators at the same location.

[thorny root]

My approach to areas is ... figure out what the most ideal single thing that could come out of that int he highest volume unique to that area... And suck up all the resource nodes and process them all as far as I can there, and then pile the remains into a train and put it somewhere it can continue being useful.

that works great until you have liquids

[mint sparrow]

thats what im trying to do with the power factory in blue crator i overclocked every since node to max to be able to get 240 gigawatts out of that biome

[thorny root]

So I try to maximize those as used on site... Even if I have to import stuff.

[mint sparrow]

i just need a bit too much oil 4025 to be exact

[leaden cosmos]

50.4 uranium rods = 2520 waste
2520 waste can become 12.5 plutonium rods / min
12.5 plutonium rods = 125 waste
125 waste becomes 62.5 ficsonium rods / min

to get that much ficsonium takes most of the SAM

[magic island]

once you're bringing in oil from a completely different biome, it's not really a "max out this biome" project anymore, is it?

[thorny root]

Most but not all? So you're saying you can within reason and through sloops, burn and converte wastelessly all the uranium on the map without sinking it?

I know it's a reduction in potential sink points value. I know it's not worth the power consumption.

[leaden cosmos]

It was more it doesnt leave much SAM for anything you might use the power for 😄
slooping drastically reduces the resources required for ficsonium

[mint sparrow]

how much power do you get from that?

[leaden cosmos]

I aimed for max uranium, max plutoniun, ficsonium, and its 1.75TW

[mint sparrow]

damn, and uranium is the limiting factor right?

[thorny root]

unless you start making more of it through sam but the second you do, you multiply everything else by that much more. You run out real quick that way.

[leaden cosmos]

I have enough that I could ramp up uranium, more its already 236 Reactors... 😄

[thorny root]

Think about it. You're using 60% of all the resources on teh map just to do the first thing.

And that's with 2100 uranium.

[mint sparrow]

overclocked?

[leaden cosmos]

If you had unlimited sloops, the max reactors I could figure out is 1555 fully sharded reactors 😄

[thorny root]

that was a number I pulled out of my ass. I don't have data to go with it.

[mint sparrow]

ok, lmao

[leaden cosmos]

at the frankly stupid metric of 1 million water / minute

[thorny root]

... that's a lot

[torn plaza]

is this true?

[thorny root]

yes both are quite true

[torn plaza]

fascinating

i knew longer segments going into a path was faster but not why

[thorny root]

its a little over 200m stopping distance at 120km/h.

[thorny root]

another thing that is less intuitive but very effective at greenlighting recently occupied intersection is making two very short blocks with block > block immediately after leaving your path block. This shortens the distance the train has to go before the intersection says "Okay come on whoever's next" to as little as possible.

[torn plaza]

yeah i've been doing that too

the only thing i haven't tried is putting path signals in the middle of path intersections

[thorny root]

do it. always. It's pointless to be a path block if you don't.

Every single node that's in a path block, path it up.

[torn plaza]

just not sure where they should go

[thorny root]

INSIDE a path block? At literally every rail segment as long as you're obeying directional flow.

[torn plaza]

#streams-and-videos message in something like this

(the video was taken before i lengthened/shortened the entrance/exits)

[thorny root]

So... each time you put a path signal inside a path block, it basically drops a series of waypoints on that rail section that the train can use or not use. And it does it in groups per block you designate. Any time a train wants through the whole path block (intersection) it finds the path, reserves all the waypoints in the path it wants to take, and then begins un-reserving those waypoints as it travels through the intersection. It will not unreserve a waypoint section until it has fully passed through the block that contains them. So... More blocks = same number of way points but more checkpoints and opportunities for other trains to ask for permission to enter and exit.

[torn plaza]

that actually helps, thank you

i wanted to understand how path signals inside an interchange work before shitting them out everywhere

[thorny root]

This also (and especially) applies to ROUNDABOUTS and trains trying to make U turns in them. Without internal path blocks on every node in a roundabout, a train can't use it to make U turns.

[torn plaza]

(this is also why i do not use VIP junctions because nobody fuckin knows)

[thorny root]

That is basically just gravity making things simple. Very different from trains. Trains don't like gravity XD

[torn plaza]

no they do not lmao

[thorny root]

General rules for path blocks I'm sure you've heard, path in, block out, but there's more to it. I would never not pathblock an intersection, but some things like "train yards" that are less subject to opposing flow traffic potential, and more subject to "having to wait outside" benefit more from being block blocks than path blocks, as long as you don't ever let trains go the opposite direction on the same rail.

[torn plaza]

yeah, i only use path signals when rails cross over, there's no point for a lone split or a lone merge

in road terms, path signals are for left turns through traffic

though i also make absolutely dang sure all my rail is one-way

[thorny root]

Roundabouts are really just too clever of a solution to not use in this game. They just work if implemented properly. And with fantastic throughput potential.

[sullen knot]

Hey I'm trying to figure out load balancer designs, specifically for reusing plastic containers for turbo fuel factory, do y'all have any tips or solid resources for this?

[vapid gorge]

for diluted packaged fuel?

[vapid gorge]

if so just do them 1:1

packager -> refinery -> packager, and loop back the empties to the first packager

[weak rose]

Manifold it. Loadbalancing is not worth the time and effort unless you do it for some weird decorative reason

[vapid gorge]

if it's for the diluted packaged fuel it's simpler and less annoying to 1:1 it. Pretty much the only time this is true

otherwise you need a large buffer filled with extra containers to make sure the inputs are always saturated

totally doable. but messier and more annoyign imo

[weak rose]

If its 1:1 yeah, thats fine but i wouldnt call that :"load balancing"

[vapid gorge]

I think technically 1:1 is excluded from load balancing even though you're providing exactly the parts per min you need yeah xD

[sullen knot]

@vapid gorge @weak rose lol thank y'all for the advice! It's a little too late to do a clean 1:1 😬 I already put a everything except for the recycling system
But I may be able to make a 2:1 look nice

[vapid gorge]

oof. did you LB or manifold it/

[sullen knot]

@vapid gorge .......I forgot until after I built everything else that I needed the containers

[vapid gorge]

it happens

just have a large buffer filled with containers to flood the system

[sullen knot]

Okie dokie, luckily I have oil going rn so setting a few aside wouldn't be too difficult

[slender sandal]

what effect if any does pipeline segment length have on flow behaviour? Should I be aiming to have long unbroken segments, lots of short segments, or does it not matter?

as in is there any difference between this, vs the same pipe but with no supports so that its a single segment?

im thinking specifically for mk2 pipe flowrate issues trying to push 600 through them

[unborn ermine]

Less calculations one would assume.

and backflow potential

(if you had one long pipe instead)

[vapid gorge]

Largely it might only have an issue with very tiny segments you get when putting a junction right on the pipe, which is why it’s good practice to rebuild the pipe connections if you do

It’s input points along a manifold that causes most of the back flow

[slender sandal]

in this case here im trying to feed 4 blenders with 200 water each, then pass the overflow on to more machines down the line. Ive got 2 pipes bringing in 480 each, and after the first 2 blenders i combine the input pipes. From my understanding this should avoid the Mk2 pipe backflow issue, but if you can spot an obvious issue with it id appreciate a heads up. I'm not fully clear on what the issue with the pipes is atm, so far Ive stuck to Mk1s and had no problems

its just a pipeline version of an injection manifold, which I assume will work

[unborn ermine]

I think it should work?
Personal preference for me would be brining that other 480 to the end of that line.

[vapid gorge]

So while technically possible it’s generally best to have dedicated lines for each group of machines. Doing merges like that can totally screw flow

Do it if you’re willing to maybe spend a lot of time troubleshooting

And the possibility of having to redo it

[vapid gorge]

What are the two fluids going into them btw?

[slender sandal]

water and HOR, those are all for diluted fuel

[primal briar]

yo im looking for someone to teach me how this works cause i cant be efficient at this game

[velvet ferry]

if you cant be efficient than power through your inputs and sink the outputs

not letting things back up or clog is really what you should really worry about when your learning, then getting everything to go green and balancing and matching I/0 it just kinda happens along the way

the only real pains i feel like is with fluids and dealing with byproducts, once you get methods for those

then its just maths from there

underclocking is better than overclocking

and there is somewhat of a tall versus wide thing with factory building.. as it comes to power consumption, recipes.. for example you can completely eliminate screws from the production chain that is going to dramatically change your footprint and size of your factories.. the diluted fuel and recycled rubber/plastic loop is another big one

you can make iron motors, early which is another big one.. and also one path ive seen that i actually really like is ditching using iron altogether and using steel instead

[plain fossil]

manual feeding my space elevator parts

i just cant be bothered rn

[velvet ferry]

semi automation is a pretty good way to get things done

[spare jolt]

aren't we all?

[plain fossil]

1000 smart plates and i sent them all to the sink

[serene barn]

LOLWUT

[inner flame]

thoughts on factory so far? just unlocked caterium

[spare jolt]

i usually don't leave so much open space though

[velvet ferry]

pretty decent looking starter factory

[inner flame]

im lowkey scared shit less

cuz now this is where it gets deep

like logistics wise

[velvet ferry]

its the journey not the destination, its gonna be a long game if you want to see it til the end

to move a mountain it only requires you to move one pebble at a time

and you will probally spend quite abit of time exploring, the hard drives and new recipes are going to totally change your trajectory pretty much with every new recipe you find.. so make sure its a big focus

[inner flame]

people say im probably gonna end up tearing this facotry dowwn is that true?

[spare jolt]

you may be, because it's a starting factory and you may want to repurpose the nodes

for better miners, better conveyers, more constructors, more parts etc

or you may not be

[velvet ferry]

yup tearing stuff down is part of the gameplay loop

[inner flame]

i need to start producing modular frames and im wondering if i should just expand horizontally more

or start to g o vertical

[spare jolt]

as you wish

[velvet ferry]

you dont necessicarly HAVE to tear your starter base down.. but as you scale up you might find that you can have like.. lets say a large motor factory.. and then all the tertiary parts down the chain you can belt off into a dimensional depot

i.e your not going to have to scale up every part

[jovial jacinth]

I rebuilt my starter base at around the start of Phase 4

[velvet ferry]

same

[jovial jacinth]

I split the different ores into satellite buildings instead of having it all crammed under one "roof"

[inner flame]

my idea was that i could make a second floor for my modular frames, and i could bring caterium over here easier by tractor and stuff, so second floor would be more "complicated things" like modular frames, quick wire, ai limiters etc

[velvet ferry]

when i got into motor and heavy frames

its really kind of like where ever your imagination takes you, ive seen some people they transit every raw material on the map into a central location and just megabuild the entire chain

some people do modular factories, and some people do a mix of both!

[spare jolt]

well if we're talking about starter bases... then thy shall behold. this is my current base which provides me with most* of the basics since humanity has asked me for 100 units of automated wiring (including smart plates and the wiring itself, which now gets sinked).

*oil, steel, MFs, HMFs and computers are not included, those are produced separately

i'm probably not gonna bother dismantling it because i have other plans for a newer base

[inner flame]

@velvet ferry can i get ur help

wwith something

[clear walrus]

what is the fluid consumption of a 250% overclocked fuel generator using turbofuel?

[spare jolt]

also FYI, the water doesn't have a collision somewhere about here in this lake

[steel knot]

is there a list somewhere of things to do with waste water? i have 840 m3/min i have to dispose of since it's giving me headaches in my VIP

wet concrete isn't an option. was thinking of diluted fuel and just burning it

[prisma kraken]

thanks for the heads up on that!

[jovial jacinth]

pure ingots?

[magic island]

the list would just be "any recipe that consumes water". maybe strike out the ones that give you other byproduct headaches

most resources in the game have a way to spend a bunch of water on them, basically just depends what's nearby

[prisma kraken]

really the best options are (1) coal generators (2) wet concrete (3) another production line that takes the exact amt

[jovial jacinth]

best things to dispose of waste water (imo) are Wet Concrete, Pure Ingots, and Coal Gens

stay out of my head~

[prisma kraken]

dealiing with that with aluminum production, i think coal generators are the most convenient due to the proximity of coal

for something like distilled silica, you're probably making it in multiples of 5 blenders. for that specific recipe, the waste water is enough to supply 4 of the 5 blenders, so you can pipe the fresh water directly into the fifth

using that principal/idea, other recipes can be clocked similarly to have the waste water supply some fraction of the machines so you can keep the fresh & waste water as separate feeds

[inner flame]

setting up modulaar frames is making me wanna kms

and its not that hard i just stink at it

😭

[prisma kraken]

some recipes like instant scrap allow you to use the waste water to make the sulfuric acid needed exactly

[prisma kraken]

it isn't the worst thing in the game to build, but yeah, that one is a big boy build

[inner flame]

i just dont really know how to set up the logistics part of it to make it look clean

as well as just expanding it off the factory i have is just like

😭

i was thinking of making a seprate factry just for modular frames

[prisma kraken]

yep, takes experience and learning, but you'll get it

plus, get it working and worry about cleaning up the mess later 🙂

[inner flame]

just found 3 normal iron nodes

probably gonna throw down a factory here

business gonna be booming

[north mauve]

@thorny root Te Fiti?

[velvet venture]

setting up my first looped train. This is how it is with 4 stations. How to place the path and block signals so that I can run as many trains as I want on these? The distance from 4>1 and 3>2 are huge.

[prisma kraken]

since it is a simple loop, block signals are sufficient for the entire thing. place them more than a single train's length apart from one another facing the direction of travel

also at the entrance/exit of every station - you always want stations to be a block unto themselves

[inner flame]

dude i feel lke im taking the ez way out following a tutorial for a layout for modular frames

but dude like this manifolds shit is crazyyyy

😭

[prisma kraken]

heh, ok

i think altogether, i'm making 330/min right now, lol

[velvet venture]

this is a very simple barebones mini fac that produces mod frames. I kept it to the minimum number of machines required to make it simple. Takes 75 ore and gives out 4 frames/min

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it can be done pretty simply

stitched plate for the rips helps a bit

[inner flame]

how could i get that blue print?

the hardest thing for me like

to plan logically in my head is like splitting resources efficently

[velvet venture]

I made it myself with the blueprint designer

Although you can just download it from anywhere, I suggest trying to make it yourself

[velvet venture]

here is a very simple build u can follow

[spare jolt]

Just wait until you get to heavy and fused frames 🚬

[inner flame]

bet thanks man

i just got the choice between copper rotor or caterium wire

should i re roll or?

[fierce thistle]

I just unlocked aluminium production and I'm feeling pretty dumb atm trying to figure out how many refineries I should be using on one pure bauxite node. I clocked the mk.2 miner to 200%, which it says is 480 per min, but the refineries say they take 200 per minute using the Sloppy Alumina recipe. So can I only use two refineries? That doesn't sound right to me. I feel like I'm missing some details.

[magic island]

you don't need very many refineries to process a lot of bauxite. the challenge is in the byproduct problem-solving, not the scale of building to do

[past reef]

depends on how much you want to extract out of the node, mk3 250% clock give 1200 per minute

[spare jolt]

Yea you don't need much bauxite refineries

[fierce thistle]

okay that's interesting

[spare jolt]

But dealing with waste water is a pain in the ass

[past reef]

agree on the byproduct management, it's the first complex product line that can break

sloppy alumina has high machine throughput but normal alumina solution helps a lot with silica at the cost of bauxite

[spare jolt]

If you want, you can even sloop the scrap refineries to run solely on waste water

Removing a problem is a solution to the problem

[fierce thistle]

haha. I'll see how i go. Thanks

[steel knot]

Thanks! Boiling it all away now

[hollow hazel]

am trying to make alot of fused modular frames but a big a issue am having is the resource costs is so much, ive literally scoured a ton of alt recipes to reduce the ore costs, if any of you have some godly heavy optimized heavy mod frames recipe plz share. this setup is as low as i could get it in terms of resource cost

[hushed kettle]

if you have excess copper iron alloy actually produces more than pure ingot

[hollow hazel]

My end goal is basically nuclear pasta, if I could spare some copper I would have loved to, but its like there’s barely as much copper on the map than I thought and I don’t want to make a world wide train line

[jovial jacinth]

sloop the constructors for copper powder

(or just sloop the pasta...not sure what your end goal is)

but since you only need 1 sloop per constructor, it's a good target

[hollow hazel]

I’ve redone the recipe with stitched iron plate and it’s now actually manageable, I’ve been using the sloops for the sake of power but this is way better. Ty

[prisma kraken]

quite a bit of the HMF cost sits in the mod frames

and quite a bit of the mod frame cost sits in reinforced plate

try using coated or steel-case plate for the plates, adhered frame and default mod frame with steel rod for the mod frames

if you're not at oil tech yet, so the coated plate & adhered plate recipes are unavailable, stitched plate also reduces the cost considerably

and finally, iron alloy for the small copper cost can do wonders, making more ingots per iron ore than pure iron

if you have copper available, i'd recommend using copper alloy to make the wire and iron alloy to make the plate

all that being said, your costs as outlined are pretty good - mama cubes are pretty expensive to make

one other little thing... you get nicer numbers for everything for heavy encased frame if you make them at a 22.5/min or 45/min rate

[velvet venture]

since Iron is pretty common, you can use this build to reduce coal costs

[prisma kraken]

this is what i built for 90/min

i built it in blue crater and needed to train in concrete, but everything else was available right there for me

if you don't wish to do trains, concrete with its 500-stack is very transportable in a tractor in quantities of up to 2400/min

[quick prism]

What is the more bauxite efficient quartz-less aluminum factory?

Normal alumina solution to normal aluminum ingots while sinking the extra scrap

[edgy leaf]

why would you sink the scrap?

[quick prism]

Or sloppy alumina to pure ingot

[quick prism]

Quartz-less factory

[edgy leaf]

you can turn aluminum scrap directly into aluminum using the pure recipe.

[quick prism]

That's the question

What path is more efficient

Wait I think you can combine both

[edgy leaf]

you can, yes

[quick prism]

Extra scrap to pure ingot

[prisma kraken]

the best quartz-less path is sloppy+electro+pure

[quick prism]

I'm stupid

[prisma kraken]

alternatively, instant+pure gives the same yield

[edgy leaf]

even if you turn the extra scrap to pure ingots, just using pure is still better

the max you can do is 1 baux to 1 alum with that chain

[quick prism]

Why would I replace quartz with oil, an even rarer resource?

[edgy leaf]

it uses 0.1 oil for every aluminum you make.

[quick prism]

So sloppy to pure is more efficient then combined?

[edgy leaf]

yes

[quick prism]

Huh

[edgy leaf]

bauxite efficient

[prisma kraken]

because it sips oil and you can use the rubber the coke production kicks off for heat sinks

and possibly some dilluted fuel for heat-fused frame

[edgy leaf]

if you care about quartz too then you should also consider the other one.

[prisma kraken]

heat fused is a bear of a factory to build though

[edgy leaf]

this chain gives you 1 alum and 0.5 silica for every 1.2 baux

i dont think theres ever a reason to do normal alumina solution to normal ingot + pure ingot, it seems to just be worse in every way

[prisma kraken]

yeah, additionally, belting the silica for that isn't very fun to do

[edgy leaf]

this here has the advantage of making silica from bauxite. using normal solution + pure ingot gives the most from bauxite, and sloppy + pure gives the most from bauxite without quartz input.

[prisma kraken]

its like the one use-case in the game for a priority merger since the supplemental silica is most likely coming in from train

[edgy leaf]

technically trains are priority mergers /tapshead.gif/

and im pretty sure you can make priority mergers that work up to certain ratios but i haerd that merger code could fuck it up so i never use them.

[prisma kraken]

you have to merge the byproduct and the supplemental on the consuming side

[edgy leaf]

for the low low price of three train stations you can make a very simple priority merger anywhere :)

[prisma kraken]

that's not exactly strait forward to do

[edgy leaf]

i love the idea of a small factory just wrapped around three train stations that are used to priority merge like 5 iron ore per minute.

peak engineering

[quick prism]

well it's a small diffference but yeah it exists

[prisma kraken]

the general meta for aluminum is that you want to get the 1:1 ore conversion ratio from sloppy+electro+pure or from instant+pure. If that isn't enough for you, then consider adding some silica in to get a 3:4 yield for ore:ingot

[quick prism]

well it's more by adding oil

[edgy leaf]

yea electrode scrap is nice

[edgy leaf]

this is what i mean. it seems to add more complexity and i think more machines for the benefit of giving you 100 less aluminum ingots

[remote flame]

I recommend this method if you want to go quartz-less @quick prism , Despite using Oil, by utilising the Alt recipes: Heavy Oil Residue, Electrode Aluminium Scrap w. Sloppy Alumina, it is incredibly efficient on the oil.

It also works out great for the intermediate 'Alumina Solution' step;

• Deliberately underclock the Sloppy Alumina Refinery to 75%, and run the Electrode Aluminum Scrap Refinery at 100%. Plug the pipe straight through between them!
• It's 150 Bauxite for 150 Aluminium Ingots, easy to work with numbers
• 5x Refineries / Output above is = 525 Water Recycled, so just throw in 2x Water extractors at the end of the pipe circuit so they have the lowest filling priority in the pipe, and job finished (or if you are paranoid on flooding the recycled water pipe, you can just get 225 water extractor input, (1x 100% and 1x 87.5%)

5x Refineries is 750 Bauxite/Min, you could overclock the very last one if you desire to make it 780/Min for Mk5 full belt. 🙂

[prisma kraken]

i'll also remind you that 30 crude -> 40 hor -> 120 coke, the coke requirement is actually very reasonable

[edgy leaf]

yea like i said, 0.1 oil/m for every 1 ingot/m

[quick prism]

the scheme for my latest project is insane(for me)

[edgy leaf]

satisfactorytools my beloved...

[prisma kraken]

i wish these plan view had better fonts

[quick prism]

no that's satisfactory modeler

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

▶ Play video

apperently no hyperlinks

[edgy leaf]

yea i know. after seeing it im grateful for satisfactorytools. it was mostly joking

[prisma kraken]

yeah, no thanks

[edgy leaf]

satisfactorytools just optimizes everything automatically 😍

[prisma kraken]

until you get close to resource limits & it does some incredibly strange things

[quick prism]

you have a bit finer control in modeler

also all the numbers are optimised in the given limit

[prisma kraken]

i use sp.runesun.com for a lot of that

[quick prism]

it calculates the most efficient factory within the given limits

[prisma kraken]

runesun's tool doesn't find optimal stuff, just lets you plan out what you want to build and bookkeeps the math

[edgy leaf]

just took a look at it and its veeeery manual

[prisma kraken]

yeah, very 'clicky'

[edgy leaf]

i prefer just doing everyting in the game after seeing how much i need to make

[prisma kraken]

what i like about the runesun tool is it does the stuff i'd be using a spreadsheet for along side everything

[quick prism]

i'm an idiot who blocked part of his factory off

[prisma kraken]

i don't really need to see a connectivity diagram, just machine counts and input/output rates

[unborn hemlock]

if i'm producing 2 cubic meters of oil residue at 20/min and my fuel requires 6 cubic meters of oil residue at 60/min do i only need 3 refineries still or what's the math there?

[edgy leaf]

I've never used a spreadsheet 💪😎

because I always get burnout before I get far enough to need one

[prisma kraken]

i did for satisfactory for a while before i found the tool i've been talking about

[edgy leaf]

don't look at the 2m3 or 6m3, just look at the values per minute

[unborn hemlock]

ok thanks

[prisma kraken]

for other games, yah, i have a folder, lol

[edgy leaf]

it doesn't matter whether it produces 0.1 at a time and 60/min or if it produces 60 at a time at 60/min, and result is basically the same

since one does 20/min and the other does 60/min well, 60/20=3

[strong nacelle]

How many Smart Plate should I keep in production? I'm mid phase 3, though I'm not certain how many I will be needing.

I don't think 2 Assemblers will do, at least.

[prisma kraken]

once you make a storage container or two of any elevator part, you'll have enough for all of the elevator parts

[strong nacelle]

I literally tore my entire base down and sunk everything, so I'm trying to rebuild with more meta in mind.

[past reef]

Keep them up for sink, unlikely you'll need more than 50pm at end game

Oh that early, keeping a big container will do

[strong nacelle]

50/m is 25 base Assemblers.

I have 2

[prisma kraken]

i have an OC'd assembler just sitting off of my starter iron factory's sink line that cherry picks some rips & rotors to make smart plates

that's really all i needed to complete the game

[unborn hemlock]

is it best to max out overclocking vs building more power-using structures?

[past reef]

Theres another component to work with on space elevator phase 2 that uses smart plate

Depends on how you value space

[prisma kraken]

overclocking uses more power than a comparable number of extra machines - a machine at 200% uses 2.5x the power of 2 machines at 100%

[past reef]

Half the ores are not placed in good spacious area, if you want to be near terrain space is sometimes important

Before late tier 5 when you have the good power I would be more conservative with overclocking

[strong nacelle]

I build up about 50m so I have little surrounding terrain to worry about.

[prisma kraken]

at 250% it gets a little more expensive than that, the power use isn't a linear increase

[past reef]

Then its more space and more effort to place things down, that's personal preference

[prisma kraken]

pretty much

i overclock liberally to make things easier or more compact to build

[past reef]

If my things might go over 10 machines worth of space I start OC

[prisma kraken]

if you need 10 machines on a manifold at 100%, you only need 4 at 250% - that's pretty easy to belt as a perfect input split

and if you do it a certain way, can actually be less logistics space

once you get to making rocket fuel, power concerns pretty much disappear from your radar

so much so that i feel rocket fuel could use a little nerfing, but i'll not belabor that point, just emphasizing that power won't always be a thing you care much about

one other thing that i'll just point out is that there's only 106 (103 practically usable) sommersloops gatherable on the map, and when you install them in machines, you get the max benefit from them if you're OC'ing the machine to 250%

[edgy leaf]

what's Meta?

[frosty owl]

"Have to merge"?
Is there an issue with just have a set of machines using the byproduct while another uses the produced silica? Kinda like merging Vs not merging fresh and recycled water

[frosty owl]

That's what they call Facebook nowdays...

[edgy leaf]

wtf is going on I can't see any new messages since my last message

or did whkever pinged me delete their message and discord lies to me by pretending there's an unread ping?

[frosty owl]

Woah there, you're throwing out some wild numbers O.o

A machine at 200% uses 1.25 times the power of 2 machines at 100%. The worst case is 250%, using 1.39 times the power than 2 machines at 100% and one at 50%.

[frosty owl]

There is only one message between yours and it's from me. I guess Discord is convinced I don't exist

[edgy leaf]

seems like discord doesn't like you :/

[prisma kraken]

ahh yeah, i didn't divide by two, sorry!

[frosty owl]

Yeah, those were some alarming amounts of power xD

[nimble nacelle]

Weird question, but did they change the fuse in 1.0 to trip at stuff as small as a single lamp?
Decided to go back to craft some logic gates from U8, and everything trip fuses now.
I remember being able to make some blinken lights by feeding a generator half the fuel it asked for...

[prisma kraken]

hoverpack?

idk if that should have ever worked if the demand exceeded supply

but oft times when you can't figure out why a fuse is tripping, its a 'doh' moment when you realize that the hovepack is eating 100mw

[nimble nacelle]

I remember having a backup of the U8 game installation, I'll attempt to boot that up when I get home just to make sure I'm not tripping...

[jagged harbor]

can anyone explain packaged diluted fuel vs diluted fuel for me? I'm showing a massive difference in oil consumption between the two recipes and trying to figure the how/why out

[remote flame]

There should be no difference between the two for the creation of fuel. However, if you use plastic to create empty canisters for the packaged fuel, that would make a difference.

It should be 1/2 The Heavy Oil Residue -> Diluted Fuel / Diluted Packaged Fuel. Or Crude_Oil x 4/3 = Heavy Oil Residue.

So in full, no matter if its packaged or not, Oil Input * 8/3 = Quantity of Diluted Fuel (assuming you have the alt: Heavy Oil residue recipe)

[jagged harbor]

WAIT I think I get where the system really gets screwy on why it tries to default

packaged diluted used refinery, normal uses blender

@frosty owl https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=gFw7Mu8EUYxXjEDvbESc

[frosty owl]

If it can (or in other words, if not forced to do otherwise), the planner almost always prefers standard recipes

[jagged harbor]

It amazing how even after all of that, I'd still have so much crude left over

[remote flame]

Using up a whole heap of crude sure does take effort with the right alternate recipes haha
Just finished up the numbers on the Full 100% Utilisation on the Blue Crater for Rocket Fuel, about 9444.44m^3/min Rocket Fuel for 2550 Oil (the bottleneck), or approx 566,666MW or so

[jagged harbor]

whistles

I can't even imagine the footprint

oh god that would take 375 fuel gens to burn

150 fully overclocked

[remote flame]

Normally I'd just do my standard chuck it in the calculator and call it a day but I know a lot of people ask about Nitro Rocket Fuel or Turbo Heavy Fuel / Blend etc, so busy building a big spreadsheet to share on all methods of power generation, where to inject somersloops in to the nuclear system / the ratio between output doubling and power augmenting for maximum power generation (currently working on that), etc

[jagged harbor]

honestly nitro would be worth it just to skip all the turbo nonsense

also to stretch your nitrogen

[remote flame]

Oh I'll throw you the sheet in a dm 🙂
Doesn't discriminate on any recipes, just throws the pros and cons of each haha
and I mean, it really doesn't discriminate. I think I bothered to look at Biocoal .-. lol

[jagged harbor]

I'll hold off for now

I'm sitting on like 10+ hard drives to research

don't want to start recipe hunting too fast

honestly biocoal probably isn't that bad if you sloop protein

[remote flame]

sadly is the truth to it. If you just kill something once every couple minutes you can sustain a 4800MW coal plant on the biocoal recipe haha

[jagged harbor]

is this sloop both the remains to protein, AND protein to mass, AND mass to coal?

[remote flame]

Sloop of remains to protein, and protein to mass and mass to coal for a single remain/minute to drive a 4800MW plant, bye bye sloops lol

[jagged harbor]

also how does that compare to biofuel in a fuel gen

[hushed kettle]

you know you've been playing for too long when you start considering biocoal usable

[remote flame]

Yeahhh I kinda just stated it exists on the sheet and moved right along when I had the chance lol

[jagged harbor]

could also be a sign you're really really bored at work

[frosty owl]

So, the reason it tries to add standard Fuel is because a plan using that in addition to Diluted Fuel uses less energy than one using only diluted Fuel, but still more energy than one using no Blenders at all, so Packaged Diluted Fuel gets picked by itsef as it's the most energy efficient.

Note: if you wish to be efficient on Oil usage, there is no need to use standard recipes for Plubber or Fuel. As I mentioned earlier, you're better off disabling the recipes you don't want (in this case, the standard recipe as it only increases Oil consumption) to avoid weird misunderstandings with the planner

So, TLDR:

1. Standard Fuel + Diluted Fuel = Most energy efficient production, picked by the Planner;
2. Diluted Fuel = Less energy efficient than (1), the planner will pick (1) if it can.
3. Packaged Diluted Fuel = Most energy efficient, the planner will pick this if it can.

[remote flame]

A classic example of disabling recipes you do not need in the calculator is Coated Iron Plate and Pure Iron Ingot in the production of Nitric Acid (it'll add them every time if it can haha). The Iron use is already negligible, to use over 250 Iron normally w. no alternates is about 5000m^3 worth of rocket fuel lol

[frosty owl]

Don't get me started on the planner using quartz to make concrete every damn time

[remote flame]

Calculator: "I heard you Like Silica"

[dark star]

Ive had most trouble with the planner making plastic and rubber through the recycled recipes, but the whole refinery line locking up if you use more of one than the other half way through

[sly ether]

using just caterium ore (and maybe water too), what's the highest sink point item i can make?

no copper nodes are nearby so if i can just use caterium that would be fantastic

[thorny root]

yeah Tefiti

[patent blaze]

spicy 😋

[dark star]

Pure ingots > copper wire > cables is 96 points per ingot. Alternatively pure ingots into quickwire is 85 point per ingots but saves a bunch of extra machines

Really tho your points would be exponentially higher by making more complex bits, esp since caterium goes into so many electronic parts

Caterium plus oil, for example would open up a whole host of options

[patent blaze]

emergency solutions always work, but they're not pretty

[hushed kettle]

MY EYES

the clipping is strong

[patent blaze]

hahaha mine too

it hurts but i dont have the time to let it run dry

lets try again lol

[remote flame]

Just asking for someone to double check if I got this right;

So the map has a Uranium Potential of 2100/Min Without using S.A.M ore to convert more in

If we want to maximise the amount of Fuel rods possible with 2100 Uranium Without any Sloops or S.A.M in this process, you'd want to use the Recipe chain;
Alt: Infused Uranium Cell -> Alt: Uranium Fuel Unit -> Uranium Waste + Uranium -> Alt: Fertile Uranium -> Alt: Instant Plutonium Cell -> Alt: Plutonium Fuel Unit

So you can form two equations for the Uranium and Plutonium Rod sections in regards to required Uranium Ore;

Therefore 1 Uranium Fuel Unit requires 125/3 Uranium Ore whilst producing 50 Waste (1)```

```50 Uranium Waste + 50 Uranium -> 200 Non Fissile Uranium -> 80/3 Encased Plutonium Cell -> 4/3 Plutonium Fuel Units
Therefore 1 Plutonium Fuel Unit requires 150/4 Waste + 150/4 Uranium (2) ```

Substituting (1) into (2) making Uranium the subject, and letting Uranium Fuel Unit = 'x' ;
```2100 - (125/3)*x - (50)*x = 0      %To maximise Uranium Fuel Units, must equal 0.
x = 252/11 = Approx. 22.909```     Uranium Fuel Units / Min , Equivalent to Approx. 286,363MW in this stage;

Hence Plutonium Fuel rods potentially generated;
```x Plutonium Rods = Uranium Rods * 50 /(150/4) = 252/11 * 50(150/4) = 336/11 = Approx. 30.545 Plutonium Fuel Units / Min```
Plutonium Fuel Units / Min, Equivalent to Approx. 763,625MW
Uranium Fuel Units Generation + Plutonium Fuel Units Generation = Approx. 1,050,000 MW (+305.45 Plutonium Waste/Min) **without using sloops or S.A.M ore** on 2100 Uranium/Min ?

[The calculations are only interested in maximum Uranium Utilisation, not other resources yet]

[patent blaze]

seems wrong

[ancient hinge]

I need help with something and I think you guys can help me

[patent blaze]

im getting way more gw with using just 1200 uranium

57,6 reactors at 6250 mw each

28,8 fuel rods

[hushed kettle]

wild how few rods a reactor takes

[patent blaze]

i dont think you want to use uranium in the plutonium conversion

[remote flame]

Ahh I think where the problem starts is Fertile Uranium over Non-Fissile uranium (Non-Fissile only needs waste, not uranium)

I'll just change that one thing and see what happens lol

[dark star]

I forget if using some uranium in your plutonium gives more energy or not, but it deff makes the calculation more complicated

[patent blaze]

i checked it a while back but i don t remember

depends what the uranium:waste ratio is i guess

[remote flame]

For Fertile Uranium Alt, whatever waste comes in equals the amount of uranium required too, so that would most likely be the culprit
[It's 25 Uranium, 25 Waste for 100 Non-Fissile]

[patent blaze]

i think its 25 uranium ore to 30 waste

i'd redo the calculations cause with that ratio in mind its not surprising you're missing so much lol

[dark star]

I split mine 500/100 uranium rods/plutonium rods cause the planner told me, but i didnt try to minmax the power output

[patent blaze]

might depend on if you sink plutonium or burn it

but if you burn it you're forced to burn ficsonium aswell and make the production line for that

[dark star]

Ficsonium is not worth it imo, it comes out pnly slightly energy positive and you have to deal with all the power fluctuating

[astral warren]

Also takes a hell of a lot of stuff to make

[patent blaze]

singularity cells yeah

which is basically just as bad as my entire uranium production line

[astral warren]

Just to turn all my theoretical Plutonium waste into Ficsonium would take like most of the map’s stock of some ore last I checked

[patent blaze]

^

its just not worth it imo

[dark star]

Tbf a lot of it is nuclear pasta, if you've done your milestones you could just divert that setup and save half that tree

[patent blaze]

milestones are solely manually made lol

i set up one particle accelerator maxed out with just the stuff i needed

[dark star]

This guy handcrafting 2k nuclear pasta

[remote flame]

Yep it was just that one recipe, now there is a substantial Uranium Fuel Unit ratio over Plutonium and the power capacity is much higher haha

[patent blaze]

oph hell no im not finishing phase 5 in a long while

[patent blaze]

:)

happy to help

[remote flame]

Ultimately I don't know if Im very bothered with nuclear all too much anymore when I can just drop a maxed Blue-Crater rocket fuel power plant for 566,666MW unslooped / boosted

[dark star]

Once you set up fused frames, rcu's, all you need is a mediumsized copper setup and you can just let if run at 1 or 0.5 pasta minute forever

[dark star]

Nuclear is for the challenge / freeing up oil resources for production, its def not as efficient as just cranking out fuel gen plants

[patent blaze]

i'd have to belt it across the map

i'd rather just hypertube a couple times

[mint sparrow]

Ok, now just 200 refineries and 960 generators. That shouldnt be that hard, right? right? :Ddd

[oblique hollow]

Just make sure to try and not max out the pipe flow rate limit.
Its easier that way

[mint sparrow]

is Oil, actually that rare for endgame, as im using 4k of crude oil on my rocket fuel power plant

[mint sparrow]

ok, will do

(4k is about 40% of what is available)

there is about 10k of crude oil on the map (overclocked), tho i dont know if this also applies for 1.0

oh and i forgot about the wells which leads to 12.7k of available oil

so 1/3

[oblique hollow]

Its more about scalability

Nuclear scales very well, input to power wise at least

As for size... it depends

Fuel power, especially the later fuels like rocket and turbo fuel, take up a lot of space

Nukes do save more space in that regard

[mint sparrow]

true true

my power plant will consume probably the whole biome of blue crator

[oblique hollow]

One fully overclocked nuke is equal to 10 fully overclocked fuel generators, at a fraction of the power shard cost

[mint sparrow]

shards are not an issue anymore tho

[oblique hollow]

So unless you got a huge stockpile of shards or are in Tier 9, you might run out

[mint sparrow]

i have about 400

not enough for the whole plant i believe

[oblique hollow]

Thats enough for 133 generators

Fully overclocked

Not for 960

[mint sparrow]

oh thats without shards

[oblique hollow]

though then again you dont need 960 if you overclock

[mint sparrow]

yep

[oblique hollow]

384 if you were to fully overclock them

which is still like 3 x the shards you have available

[mint sparrow]

yeah

i will probably overclock 200 gens to 200%

and go from there

[oblique hollow]

Ive only helped someone with 900 fuel generators once

Never again

I refuse to ever build or touch that many ever again

[mint sparrow]

ok, im scared now

[dark star]

Theres mods for bigger blueprints right? You could just make a 30 gens with mk2 looped pipe blueprint and stamp them out over a couple floors

[velvet ferry]

rocket fuel gen is the wave rn

[mint sparrow]

its the most efficient type of fuel

[dark star]

Or however many 250% rocket fuel a 600m3 pipe takes

[mint sparrow]

I have about 6 mk2 pipes of rocket fuel

or 4750 m3

i just realized i should have 8

oh boy

i dont know where i lost the 1200m3 of rocket fuel

bloody hell I have to build another 10 blenders

[tough fiber]

Would you take Caterium Wire, Solid Steel Ingot, Tempered Copper Ingot (with coke), or Steel Iron Plate?

[steel knot]

is there a way to limit resources on satisfactory calculator similar to satisfactory tool?

[fickle leaf]

Is there a chart somewhere for how many constructors / assemblers / manufacturers for max output by belt type?

[mint sparrow]

in tools go to inputs and input the max recource if you go over the recources in inputs a mk3 miner appears so just adjust the output until you get no mk3 miners. Or at least thats how i do it

[mint sparrow]

dont think so, but thats just a simple calculation away

[mint sparrow]

i cant insert a link, but if you want search for "alternate recepies tier list" and I normally use the one from One Esports

As i cant remember which recepies are the best of those

[past reef]

solid steel is generally a good pick, the other ones are location dependent

[fickle leaf]

Mostly need it for planning. Yes it's simple but I'd rather just have the numbers

[tough fiber]

Amazing, thank you!

[past reef]

fused wire is in general nicer than caterium wire for late game setup, but caterium wire is good for machine count

[tough fiber]

Someone said this, but I was wondering about it, because it doesn't save much on machine space

[past reef]

no steel recipes save space as much as we wanted

coke steel is best if you import coke from elsewhere but including the refineries space it's breaking even

solid steel just gets you more steel at the cost of a couple of 4MW smelters

[sly fjord]

So many are fan of pure recipes but I am not.

[mint sparrow]

power wise, its not so great but if you want to max out ingot per ore, its the best

[sly fjord]

Yeah, I know, but I dont prioritize that over everything personally.

[dark star]

I kinda hate setting up refinery rows for pure ingots, but you get so much more bang for your buck

Pure copper ingots into steamed sheets feels like printing money

[sly fjord]

Mixing fused wire and fused quickwire in the same factory seem to me like a good plan.

[past reef]

I'm split for pure recipes tbh, pure copper and pure caterium are understandably good considering their synergy together but the other are so-so

yeah the ratio for fused (quickwire) mean you can mix 2 nodes of copper - caterium on same purity for a bunch of wires that can be nicely exported with drone

[dark star]

Ive never had need for pure iron, pure aluminum is good if you dont want to bother with quartz and arent worried about maximising yield

[past reef]

pure iron is super bad for machine clocking I never use it

[sly fjord]

You need so many more machines, that is also a lot bigger than Copper Alloy, thats why I dont like it.

[dark star]

Ye, but then you need to free up an extra resource (water is almost free)

[sly fjord]

Where I make factories, its much more often iron is close to copper than water

[past reef]

not all of the time the setup for water is worth it, a water train grabs an extra 400MW off your grid for not even x2 of iron ingot, you can grab another node

again it's location dependent, lots of the time you will have to smelt an iron node out of nowhere

for example with nitric acid you don't want a big place with big power to supply your iron plates, smelt into normal plate is the way

[sly fjord]

Yeah it does depend on location. I think the only situation where I personally would bother with pure copper is if there isnt iron nearby, but there is water.

[tough fiber]

Wow, steel screws seem to be a real catch

[mint sparrow]

Genuine question. Will around 760 fuel generators fits in here?

I never worked at such scale

[tough fiber]

40% the amount of resources (albeit trade iron for coal)
X0.68 1/1 building (i.e. smelter/constructor) + X0.128 2/1 building (i.e. assembler/foundry)
vs X5 1/1 building for the regular screws

[dark star]

Youre gonna habe to work with multiple levels. Also 760 seems.. a lot. Are you overclocking them? Cause then you could cut that amount by x2.5

[quick prism]

Did someone try making a 1/min Project assembly factory or something close to that or is there not enough resources on the map?

[mint sparrow]

I have only enough shards for 200 gens at 200% percent

[mint sparrow]

im not sure what you mean by that

[dark star]

There was this one guy going for 100/min of all the parts.. but i think we calculated it would be impossible or near impossible to run 100 nuclear pasta/min

[quick prism]

Like, producing enough resources in 1 minute to build a project assembly

[dark star]

Thats 2k nuclear pasta a minute, to which the awnser is clearly, no

[quick prism]

Not even with converters and loop organs?

[quick prism]

Isn't it only 1200 nuclear pasta though (including making the phase 5 thing)

[dark star]

You could ask the tools website with map max and all alts, but i doubt there is enough SAM

[quick prism]

I feel like the server is gonna burn

[dark star]

Ah, you're right, its ONLY 1200 pasta a min

[mint sparrow]

btw, is it to be expected to lag alot with that many buildables in one area?

i have a pretty descent setup (more of high end)

[dark star]

Depens on your pc, but ive had big factories with little issue, tho never 760 gens before. I think they dont ask much as your PC unlike the nuclear plants with the steam particles

[dark star]

I asked satisfactorytools and if gives me an awnser for 100/min, but cant calculate for 150/min.. so the map maximum is somewhere between 100 and 150/min if you dont account for resources lost to produce power (seeing as copper is the limiting resource, you probably dont have to)

[mint sparrow]

im thinking of producing in the end as much as warp drives as i can

[quick prism]

Ah

[white bloom]

why aren't you just using satisfactorytools in maximize mode? that's exactly the use case for it. It can get out 134.34 Nuclear Pasta /min

[dark star]

Short awnser: im dumb, forgot it existed

[sharp cargo]

If I haven't unlocked recycled rubber+plastic, what's my best route for maximizing plastic production --
1 ) oil -> plastic + HOR
OR
2 ) oil -> polymer resin -> plastic
?

my big problem right now is i'm not consuming all the liquid outputs and my production stalls

looks like number 1 results in more plastic per oil input

[warm wave]

Is there a way to calculate how many powerbanks have been built?

[mint sparrow]

Lads, I gotta import 1500 crude oil/min to blue crator. From where should I do that

[oblique hollow]

Oil > Resin > Plastic probably
If you have the rubber to plastic recycling recipe (so one half) you can use that too

Resin to plastic its only a marginal efficiency increase, but its something

if you have some somersloops you can boost this even further if you really need it

[sharp cargo]

I guess i have some hard drives to hunt for

[mint sparrow]

Will two trains with 5 freights be enough to transport 1500 crude oil a minute across 5.62km track? one freight has the capacity to transport 2400m^3 so 12000m^3 for round trip

24000/1500=16min

so the trains will have to make a round trip in 16 minutes?

right?

[oblique hollow]

1500 crude per minute needs at minimum 2 freight cars so you're good i think

also, freight cars store 1600m³

not 2400m³

[tough fiber]

Coated Wire or Steel Rotor (and why?)

[spare jolt]

steel rotor allows for better coupling with stators and can be made with iron only

coated wire needs liquids and has a solid-only alternative > straight into the garbage

(the last part is a sarcasm - it may be good, but i'm not using it because it can be avoided)