math-and-meta

[eager solar]

it is done

[vapid estuary]

boggle

[eager solar]

that's why I honestly tought I was good for hours

because it actually worked perfectly for so long

[vapid estuary]

so when you clock the recycling side higher, the problem goes away, right?

[eager solar]

(btw, making monster is masochistically fun)

that's my initial question, should I?

[vapid estuary]

absolutely!!

46 manufacturers? this thing must be enormous

[eager solar]

Honestly, my biggest gripe with liquid in this game is that problems can take literal hours to be spotted

[vapid estuary]

14 of them making nuke nobelisks?

[eager solar]

if you look me up in #screenshots you can se it in my most recent posts

[vapid estuary]

if that's your biggest gripe you're doing it well. most people build something that basically can't not slosh and are baffled what they're doing wrong

[eager solar]

gotta show nature who's boss

[eager solar]

don't underestimate that, it's an excruciating pain to sincerely believe you're done after hours of troubleshooting only to realize after (dozens of) hours that something is wrong

[vapid estuary]

the #1 mistake I can think of is exactly matching supply to demand which, if you're following the planner this closely, is what's going on

[magic island]

well, since the thing is built, AND it seems to be running entirely off Mk4 belts

I think you could take the surplus ore you'll get from upgraded Miners+Belts, and pipe the recycled water into making ingots or concrete. that should solve your byproduct woes without requiring teardowns

then you just extract more fresh water for the machines you were previously feeding the byproduct

[eager solar]

Comes with the territory of challenging yourself. I do have to say that by doing so I learnt a lot

I might do that if it still doesn't work now

[heavy gust]

i got "gifted" 20 sloops by the update
did anyone else check yet?

( a lot of stuff respawned)

[eager solar]

No idea

[dusky dust]

Yep, seems to be just a thing that happened with the patch. Has happened many times in the past with earlier patches during EA, too. See also: slugs, spheres, fart rocks, alien spawns near "populated" areas, etc

[magic island]

alien power math just changed, now you gotta plan to build 12 augmenters and produce 60 matrixes per min

[steel knot]

Checking my plumbing understanding. This manifold would work, right?

[magic island]

yes, should be no issue with that

[steel knot]

Great. Trying to set up a 1200 ppm aluminum refinery with electrode scrap and sloppy aluminum.

[pure crow]

Eh? you're drawing over 600 from a single pipe?

[steel knot]

Where?

[magic island]

I believe one side is inputs and the other is outputs?

[pure crow]

Oh, is one side input and the other side output?

[steel knot]

Oh sorry!

[magic island]

like, 240x3 being split into 180x4 (or vice versa)

[steel knot]

Yeah my bad. Inputs on left. Outputs on right

[pure crow]

Should be fine, then, good. Yeah, that's how the grid concept works. You just keep bisecting if you add more things.

Would help to have a few arrows here and there though to indicate direction.

[steel knot]

Yeah I was lazy on that one.

My bad

[amber jacinth]

Left or right flow, both should work regardless

[steel knot]

Other question. Does the VIP junction work if the recycled water is being introduced from a higher head height?

[magic island]

that diagram is pretty much my go-to approach when I'm worried about bottlenecks and the input/output counts don't match. make a big main pipe, distribute inputs evenly on one side, distribute outputs evenly on the other side

[pure crow]

Only one way to find out... and I never risked taking that one way.

[eager solar]

don't if you can

[pure crow]

I doubt it, though. Reversing something that works by height "should" in principle, work the opposite way.

[eager solar]

the whole discussions we had above started with a vip not working as I expected, still don't kno why

[steel knot]

I have had perfect success with it

At least in the simple case

[pure crow]

One time I was hoping VIP could be done with a valve, but it only works with an (unpowered) pump for some system... I don't know what the distinction is between a valve and a pump. I guess only the pump resets headlift or something?

(does a valve actually transfer headlift both ways...?)

[steel knot]

Yeah I’m going to try this one out. Just theorycrafting during lunch

Easiest thing would just be to move the neck of the input above the height of the recycled source

Then I’d be sure

I was intimidated by vertically stacked refineries but space is a premium in my chosen spot

[pure crow]

Vertically stacked is a bit annoying, since the refinery is so tall there is a high amount of "wasted" pipe or belt length.

[steel knot]

Yeah

But it’s that or reroute my railroad

[pure crow]

(more formally, the wasted space is equal to shortest distance in that dimension, but for height there is only one dimension, i.e. the height of the building Z; the least relative wasted space is therefore Z compared to min(X,Y) and it is almost always true that Z > min(X,Y))

[eager solar]

which turbo moto recipes are generally the most efficent part-wise and simplicity-wise?

[wind spade]

would probably depend on which raw resources you want to save, which other alts you have, etc. 🙂 and usually the resource-efficient alts are more complex

[eager solar]

It's a factory producing turbomotors, fused frame, cooling sytem and ideally silica (since I forgot to automate it before). reosurces-wise it would be nice if I could avoid bringing in caterium, sulfur, uranium and sam

I'm limiting myself to 700/min of each raw and want to have a bit less than 600m³ of nitro

[wind spade]

put that in Tools and see what they come up with 🙂

[eager solar]

I am, was wondering which recipes to enable/disable

[wind spade]

enable all and let tools select the most resource efficient path 🙂

[eager solar]

I'm not in t9 yet, just how often will I need to build converter and accelerator? I don't realize if 5/min would be enough

[wind spade]

well, enable all you have obviously 🙂

[eager solar]

I did for my last factory (the one that was talked to above), this time I want to try to get both efficient enough and somewhat simple

see how much of a difference it makes

so I'm trying to reach a decent prod with nice numbers

[pure crow]

For progression you don't need much, but for instance you "might" build the equivalent of about ||5-20 of each at 100% clocking||.

[eager solar]

oh so 5/mins should be quite enough for a long while at least

[wind spade]

what I recommend is to start with all-enabled production and disable things you don't want to deal with until you're happy with the result

(and obivously use items/min, not maximise)

[eager solar]

currently trying to do that

think I'm going somewhere, all alts prod had items with like more than 2k/min, now the highest one is 701.667/min which fit in a mk5 belt

*760.708

[fringe pawn]

Hey optimizers, check for spheres/sloops being replaced after this patch.

Also slugs if that's of interest. Looks like this patch did a full map respawn.

[empty flower]

+1

[eager solar]

what about hd?

[fringe pawn]

So it looks like your save file does eventually catch up

No HDDs, but also the map now looks as it should. But I totally have 2 extra mercer spheres now.

And a yellow slug.

[peak edge]

patch broke my pipes, had to rebuild all the factory building outputs or else it wouldnt run properly

[pure crow]

Patches can break direct pipe connections? o-o

[fringe pawn]

If you're bonkers, I guess the thing to do is always end your session near a somersloop spawn cluster, so if a patch drops you can grab extra?

[amber umbra]

If you’re fine utilizing bugged sloops, why not just spawn sloops?

[fringe pawn]

Eh feels different when the game puts them right in front of you.

The two spheres that I picked up were at a factory location, so I figured I was going to either need to listen to the ambient noise from them or pick up the extra

[spare jolt]

Didn't check the update yet, why did they respawn?

[fringe pawn]

It appears to be a catch up issue. The map loads in a default state after the patch when you first open your save file.

So anything you can pick up quickly is duped.

[spare jolt]

Yay I'm getting one more sloop. Probably.

[still roost]

I left mine running for about 30 minutes after starting while I ate, was still getting already collected Slugs spawning when I got back. How long did yours take to catch up?

[fringe pawn]

About 2 minutes.

I'll portal across the map and see whether I get anything

[still roost]

Hm. I'm on an SSD so it's not a speed issue

[fringe pawn]

That'd be a CPU issue more likely. SSDs are so fast that game loads have gone back to being CPU bottlenecked.

[spare jolt]

Though the boundaries comeback is one of the best things so far

Used them a lot in U4 and 5

[fringe pawn]

Yep, my U4 factory had plutonium storage just past the NW damage border. I didn't even try to get to it in the old 1.0 border. Though that save is basically worthless now.

[versed dawn]

Currently I'm at t5/t6. I do enjoy building transportation paths and what not. So i was thinking of doing a factory for those. But yeah the sheer volume that would need to be produced would be gigantic..

[spare jolt]

No I'm talking about the building boundaries

[terse stone]

Prototype of factory optimizing against different goals. This example looks at different ways of producing Iron Ingots (less any SAM recipes).
-For the most amount of Ingots per total number of input ingredients Iron Alloy Ingot is the best recipe path.
-For the most Ingot production per MW of power used, Iron Ingot is the best recipe (not assuming underclocking strategies).
-For the most output ingots per value* of input ingredients then Pure Iron Ingot is the best.

This value* is derived from the scarcity of resource and demand from later Phase production as using direct Sink Values don't value Copper as much as it's needed for example.

[broken kiln]

setting up my first turbofuel factory, if i'm trying to split 13.333 refinery's worth of HOR out, i have 13 whole and want to split that last one, but it's connected to two distinct lines. how do i:

1. ensure the 13 hooked up to this one line don't contribute to the other line
2. ensure the 14th is split exactly?
   i assume it's just a valve situation, is it as simple as: valve pointing from the 14th into the side I'm trying to make exact and let the rest "overflow"?

i can give more specifics if needed

i'll actually have 2 sets of this issue, one for diluted fuel and one for coke

[desert oxide]

If the inputs and outputs of the next step are setup properly and nothing exceeds 600/m in a Mk2 pipe - it shouldnt really matter. When I have overflows like that I usually just join the two manifolds together and use them as a loop for inputs to the next step at each manifold side (like input from left and right)

Just think of the total number being made and consumed, then figure out how to connect it all so that it saturates at that rate and can be consumed

[broken kiln]

oh i guess that's fair, i could always just link up all pipes and they'll fill where needed

here's the plan

so i could theoretically just hook up all the HOR pipes in a giant loop and so long as it's not throttled by way of too many on a single pipe, out of the refineries, it will be fine?

(which is basically 15 HOR refineries on a single pipe)

[desert oxide]

I would break these up into smaller sections, one sec

[tidal dock]

it's do able but I don't recommend it for new player to use large Manifold like this.

[desert oxide]

Do you have shards or want to use normal clocked stuff?

[broken kiln]

yeah i'm thinking about splitting them into 8 sets of 10 rather than the 4 sets of 20 like i have

[broken kiln]

have shards, typically use normal or underclocking

[desert oxide]

Exactly what I was thinking, just make 8x 400 output of Turbo

All of the pipes never come close to 600 so you can do bottom, upper, in-line feeds - whatever looks good

[broken kiln]

8x 400 output of...HOR?

[desert oxide]

3200/8 = 400 Turbo

[broken kiln]

oh i guess both lmao

i didn't realize it combined back into the same amount of Turbo

[desert oxide]

Generators are at least a reasonable number at 100%, its 53.33 per output line

If you are thinking of a build this large, I would highly recommend looking at Rocket Fuel which is a gas and needs no pumps to move it vertically

[halcyon gulch]

whats the most optimal for 1 pure coal, 2 normal iron 1 impure iron I have access to tier 2 miners, and tier 3 conveyer belts (almost tier 4)

Im trying to just make steel beams from them, and then I was going to use a similar-esc set-up for steel pipes

[desert oxide]

3200 TF makes 106.6GW, so not bad but just adding nitrogen and coal gets you alot more power with the oil inputs, but TurboFuel is still fun to build

Are you building it in Blue Crater or somewhere else?

[broken kiln]

going to upgrade once i get there, don't have access to the tanks to unlock RF right now

blue crater, yeah

[desert oxide]

Your limiter is coal for that build, but 'optimal' for that would be based on 480 coal input

[desert oxide]

Blue Crater has all of the stuff needed for rocket fuel, Nitrogen, Sulfur, Oil and water all in one spot

[halcyon gulch]

it doesnt seem like it is, I have all 5 crafters full of coal, but im somehow running out of iron

also are thermal generators worth it?

ive got 10 coal generators running and i somehow ran out of power once idk, Im thinking of making 10-20 more

[desert oxide]

If you arent looking at making huge bases all over the map - 106GW is plenty of power honestly so stick with TF

[halcyon gulch]

but if thermal generators work fine ill do that

[desert oxide]

Id have to see your setup..

[halcyon gulch]

uhh ill get it in like a few hours

i aint home rn

[desert oxide]

You mean GeoThermals? They are allright.. but produce in a wave with highs and lows, need batteries to smooth them out usually

I personally dont bother with Geothermals, typically my power builds are ~20 biomass -> 8 coal -> 36 coal -> 10 fuel gens (Plastic/Rubber HOR - > Fuel) -> more fuel gens, adding batteries when they are available between 36 coal and 10 fuel gens

Geothermals are literally free power, you just have to setup the power infrastructure to get to them

[halcyon gulch]

I JUST got liquid fuel so I think ima start investing in that

ig?

[desert oxide]

Fuel is great and simple for mid-game, can get 20GW out of a single pure oil node

[dim elk]

anyone has a recipe path for nice numbers on encased industrial beam?

[wind spade]

Every number is nice

[halcyon gulch]

ive got like 2 normal and 2 impure oil nodes at my current area

ive also got a bunch of coal and iron nodes nearby as well so its a solid area

but def not the best

[vapid gorge]

define 'nice'

[halcyon gulch]

basically im in the bottom (right?) corner of the map?

currently

like the first starting area and just to the right of it

[halcyon gulch]

its at the first starting area and to the bottom left, by that little tiny floating island that has 1 coal node on it

[broken kiln]

Which is why I chose it

[desert oxide]

This is usually what I build for my steel starter factory, assuming Mk4 belts, makes beams, pipes, encased beams and overflows some concrete. I typically build it with Mk3 belts in the manifolds and once at the point of Mk4 belts, upgrade it for full capacity
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=ZpLLBI5xvGUuSsOkAFmK

[wind spade]

that sounds like overkill

[heavy gust]

you could bridge the gap to rocket fuel with diluted fuel.
unless you just want turbo, then go ahead

diluted should be enough to get there

[dim elk]

like any multiple of 30/60 so I can fully use mines 🤔

[dim elk]

ill take a look

[vapid gorge]

put in the number of ore you want to use in input, and then 'maximise' with the recipes you have https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[dim elk]

gotta admit im only tier 3/4 (researched everything, but havent progressed onto next tier yet)
but so far ive managed to build a tiny factory for each product on its own - i just claimed new nodes

[nimble nimbus]

Im about to start building like that to see how I like it.. RIght now I have an "iron megafactory" and a "steel megafactory".. but I'd like to try being way more modular..

[vapid gorge]

it makes logistics simpler yes

[nimble nimbus]

My iron factory is sitting on 4 pure iron nodes.. so I might just have a "iron ingot" factory.. but then modularizxe from there

its a spaghetti mess though, so no loss in nuking it 😄

[vapid gorge]

you can make a lot of thigns with just iron...

and often easier to bring a handful of things to the iron instead since that's the bulk of early production

[dim elk]

i know that tool exists i but i was rather looking for how many nodes of each kind i'd have to claim to get more or less even numbers

[vapid gorge]

how many ore pm are you going to mine from those nodes? as a 'node' is not a number

[dim elk]

I only have mk1 and mk2 available so far

[vapid gorge]

pls pls pls talk about numbers

what are you clocking yoru miners to output

I can't put mk2 into an equation

[dim elk]

Well I said I was looking for recipes that need a multiple of 30/60 so I can use default miners without any overflow

[dark star]

What about 60 nodes all set to a prime number or ore a minute

[dim elk]

Like I know i can just clock them down, but that's why I asked if anyone knows a recipe/build chain that gets those nice numbers

[vapid gorge]

you ask people for help, but refuse to give the extremely basic info they would need

pick a number

[dim elk]

I didn't refuse, i just don't have any ores/mines claimed

I'm looking for a recipe/build path so thatr I can claim nodes accordingly 🤔

[vapid gorge]

here 60 ore pm into hmf jfc https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=LAdJuApE3RdjIIIirdhf

[dim elk]

Anyway ill just use the modeler a bit more, i dont think this is heading anywhere

[vapid gorge]

yeah the modeler is not what you want for this

[dark star]

Sf tools lets you set the input amount too

[dim elk]

i'll take a look, thanks

[vapid gorge]

yeah it's 20x the steps to do a fraction of what SF tools does

at least from the videos they've put out for it

[broken kiln]

Hmm fair enough

[steel knot]

Hmm so I’m stumped on how to get VIP working when the clean input is at a deficit from the first refineries and the recycled waste water. Do I still add a pump at the level of the first pass refineries on both sides? Do I need to come up and over the input height if there’s a pump that brings the head height that far already?

I can’t tell if it’s getting there or slowly fading away. I was at 95% then 85% then 90

[flint rapids]

I'm bothered by Trains slowing down before path signals. If I were make run-ups to Path signals longer where possible would that improve speed significantly? Or is it better to not use Path at all, except for very busy sections.

[prisma kraken]

trains always slow down entering a path signal intersection, not sure exactly why. you sometimes see it with block signals as well. Speed of transit isn't incredibly important for things traveling in an infinite loop

[wind spade]

they slow down if signals are close to each other afaik

[vapid gorge]

VIPs work off black magic, I highly suggest you build it exactly like the diagram from the manual

and it doesn't matter if one pipe has a 'deficit' all you care about is which has priority

[steel knot]

Right I think the pump the bottom serves the same purpose as the one in the diagram. I’ve designed it exactly the same otherwise. Might try with one of each refinery as a unit test (underclocked) and see if I can get it to work. Would be a faster equilibration time

I have a VIP working elsewhere. But it’s vanilla

This is mint chip

[vapid estuary]

You can do no path signals at all if you don’t do
Level crossings

[neat crest]

Anybody got a favorite production chain for recycled plastic/rubber? I'm playing through the scenarios and none of them seem to be very clean

Rubber seems to be a lot more in need so one that favors rubber I guess

[cerulean stratus]

is it me or is dark matter trap useless

[wind spade]

alternate HOR -> diluted (packaged) fuel -> recycled plastic + rubber
and byproduct resin -> residual rubber

[pure crow]

Not sure why you mention chain, but fundamentally the input is simply fuel; HOR->diluted fuel for instance. A recycled rubber+plastic module itself is, quite literally, just a loop; it's easiest to "understand" this loop with a Smart Splitter that only overflows your desired output "out" of the module.

That is, Recycled Rubber -> Smart Splitter -> Recycled Plastic, and vice versa.

(If you need to favor rubber, you "can" run fewer plastic refineries, but that kind of makes things more complicated)

[neat crest]

I guess my question is more like, do I just produce a tiny amount of plastic / rubber from crude at first and then just keep looping it in the recycle chain with fuel?

or should each "module" be crude to plastic and hor/fuel together

[pure crow]

If you're using the HOR->diluted fuel chain to produce the fuel that precedes this loop, you'll have a convenient byproduct called "polymer resin" that can be turned into rubber or plastic. Then you can either manually load it yourself, or do automatic loading.

[pure crow]

That's up to you, a module of modules does make expansion easier though.

[neat crest]

Wait sorry now I see what you mean, all crude direct to HOR then go from there.

[pure crow]

I'm being a bit vague still in case you want to solve those problems yourself, but... starts typing up the full solution...

||HOR -> Fuel -> Recycling Loop. Expand this module of modules N times. Manifold the recycling loop for mostly automatic looping. Load in the 'starting' rubber or plastic produced from polymer resin at the back end of the manifold, or manually load the very last refinery yourself||

[prisma kraken]

or just feed the rubber made from resin into the loop so it is self-starting

[unborn ermine]

The only problem with that, if you are shooting for more than what your planned belts can sustain.
But thats if you are like me and dont have a plan, and consolidated the rubber to a single belt.

[pure crow]

Yeah, I'd much rather connect the extra belt than manually loop the refineries for some reason...

[pure crow]

Well, if you hit belt limit, you copy the entire section instead, perhaps onto another floor.

[prisma kraken]

if you build it in chunks that process 150 crude, you can stay under the 480 belt limit

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, but for me thats an "afterwards" thing

[pure crow]

Oh, I see, y'all convert ALL of the fuel into plastic/rubber...

I normally take a fraction of the fuel and send it to the generators (or later modules processing the fuel)...

[prisma kraken]

well, you don't have to

[unborn ermine]

I went for a "node to product" approach, did what I need only using a node, and moving to the next.

[prisma kraken]

my personal building style is on the large side, so usually when i get to an oil patch i'm thinking that i'll just add another 900 plastic and rubber to what i'm making

[pure crow]

I get a little bored after a while of putting refineries, haha...

[prisma kraken]

yeah

[pure crow]

... speaking of which, do you guys think it's worth it to powershard nuclear power plants? o-o Worried about a 250% nuclear power plant requiring the FULL 600 m^2 water...

[prisma kraken]

but i mean, i'm already making 3600/min rubber and about 1200/min plastic and need more

because it is such a simple pipe network of 2 extractors into one generator, it generally works

[pure crow]

Aye, 100% is fine at 240 m^2...

[prisma kraken]

i've built nuclear plants like that

[pure crow]

I'm real tempted to power shard it so I can do less load balancing though

[prisma kraken]

never had a problem. have heard others say that they've had a pipe that they could never get working. idk

i have a feeling that there's something in pipe building order that causes similar pipes you build to act differently

like sometimes the 'don't ever work bit' gets set

[pure crow]

Would have to ask the devs. I wouldn't know, I normally don't count on pipes to transfer the full 600, heh.

[prisma kraken]

there's some hidden state variable none of us have been able to figure out

[pure crow]

So that's why I'm wondering if it's safe to rely on it transferring 600 for a nuclear power plant.

[prisma kraken]

i've never seen a problem with doing it myself

[pure crow]

Oh, do you also power shard the extractors? I see.

That doesn't sound too bad, actually.

[unborn ermine]

I feel like it boils down to how the extractors are dealt with imho

[prisma kraken]

there's also some best practices like placing pumps before you build pipes instead of snapping them on

[pure crow]

yeah, I've heard the shape of the pipe also gets distorted when you place the pump on the pipe though, relative to what it'd normally look like

hasn't had major impact for me though so I never looked into it

[wind spade]

it's not rubber or plastic 🙂 always use rubber

[pure crow]

but in that scenario it does actually change the state

[honest lotus]

You're meant to do that?

[wind spade]

it helps with pipe flow

[pure crow]

This was just about starting up the recycling loop, not about using the polymer resin, shrug.

Outside of the scope of the question.

[wind spade]

well the message was

Load in the 'starting' rubber or plastic produced from polymer resin

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I always place and repipe everything since the pipe is split inside the pump after it gets placed.

[prisma kraken]

an example of wtf:

those pumps were all snapped to a wall at the same height before i built the pipes

[unborn ermine]

The ONLY benefit to slapping a pump on a pipe, you can snap to the same height as a pump beside the pipe. (then you can redo the pipe afterwards)

[pure crow]

oh my god...

[prisma kraken]

why it is a bad idea to snap a pump onto a pipe is sometimes when you do it at the end of a pipe segment you end up with a pipe segment that is too short

[unborn ermine]

refering to this?

[prisma kraken]

segments need to be a certain volume to support a given transfer rate

[prisma kraken]

can't tell you how many times i've rebuilt those pipes, lol

[pure crow]

good thing I usually don't worry about the visuals of things...

[prisma kraken]

it doesn't bug me that much, it bugs me that it is inexplicable

[pure crow]

so you rebuilt 'em and they still ended up like that...

the left ones look like they're biased upwards, the floor hole connection must somehow be impacting the pipe...?

speaking of which, I wonder if big floor holes can "skip" headlift requirements. Or vertical junctions, for that matter. Since neither of those hold liquid(?).

[unborn ermine]

I dont like the uncertainty that that statement implies, and that makes me want to use them even less

[pure crow]

Oh, if that works, it would be a shenanigan that means you could get extra headlift by putting a junction exactly at the headlift height. Wouldn't be a negative.

But, yeah, a lot of the usual fluid stuff is... reportedly problematic.

[steel knot]

What are water towers used for? I saw a blueprint for one but couldn’t think of the use case

[neat crest]

Well that's annoying. I did out the math and if you start with HOR+diluted -> rubber -> plastic -> rubber -> plastic,
It's 90 crude to 140 rubber and 50 plastic

But if you do the inverse (start with plastic), it's 90 crude 140 rubber and only 40 plastic. Strictly worse!

[neat crest]

If you pump a tiny bit of water up on the tower, then use valves to push water out of it into any other pipe system, it won't need pumps

So you put one near a water extractor array before it goes to the factory, make sure it pushes in to all your outgoing pipes, and then no need to manage pumps at the factory itself.

[wind spade]

that's weird, because there's no "better" or "worse", it's always 1 Oil -> 3 products

[neat crest]

I mean maybe I'm not doing something right. I did crude-> HOR->residual plastic & diluted fuel. Then I did 3 steps of recycled rubber/plastic/rubber to use up the fuel.

[wind spade]

not residual, recycled

[fringe pawn]

You want residual rubber

[wind spade]

recycled loop + residual rubber

[neat crest]

I don't know how what you're saying is different

[fringe pawn]

Interesting, multiple save/loads and hours of runtime later, I found another regenerated mercer sphere. Covered by regenerated destructible rocks.

[unborn ermine]

Its been the talk of #satisfactory for a bit now

Im up 71 spheres and 5 sloops in my save

(slugs too, but honestly its just deco)

[fringe pawn]

It's inconsistent

[worthy talon]

is the highspeed connector alt the best for least amount of quickwire needed?

[unborn ermine]

Yep, I only had a few left for sloops, some people got 20+ respawning

[neat crest]

I figured out what I did wrong- diluted fuel uses HOR directly, not fuel. So I was losing 33% of my fuel

[fringe pawn]

Interesting, respawned items don't appear on radar towers, but the object scanner picks them up. I'm going to comb my map tonight.

I can get some more power lines down while I'm at it.

But for anyone that has 120+ sloops, that puts them in an interesting place. That's more than you can use for maximizing warp drives by themselves. So do you maximize singularity cells to maximize more warp drives? Or is there a different underlying ingredient that's better?

[fringe pawn]

I expect these extra items to potentially be patched out. Maybe. Placing a new radar tower, it won't pick them up. So there might be some way to distinguish them and get rid of all the respawned stuff. Which is probably the right thing to do for all the people who don't want to clear foliage and rocks again.

[main pier]

What's peoples opinion on crystal computer alt recipe?

[fringe pawn]

I've used all computer recipes. The choice is generally convenience based, they're all fine.

[ornate obsidian]

unless you have crystal oscillaters lying around it really makes the factory more complicated

i like the defaut with caterium wire and circuit boards

[violet halo]

Have you tried to cut the power on the towers and reapply the search effect it does?

[violet halo]

I would not expect it. According to the people that have had this game for years, it happens every major update.

[unborn ermine]

Mercer spheres seem to have no "casing" when they respawn in, I think that might be part of why its not picked up on a radar tower.

[fringe pawn]

I built new radar towers rather than toggling power

[violet halo]

They were fiddling with a few of the casings not disappearing, as a bug patch. That might of triggered it.

[unborn ermine]

Someone in #satisfactory mentioned a fix for the respawned "stuff" using SCIM
#satisfactory message

[spare jolt]

my first turbofuel plant. not even rocket fuel, turbofuel, first ever

[formal perch]

I have rails all around the map and could reach every node in rather simple ways. But how many HMF should I aim at? What is a good go to end game HMF amount per minute?

[pastel obsidian]

What sort of end game do you want

The less space you have for machines the more you have for making it look beautiful

[formal perch]

I think my endgame is something like saturating every pure node on the map.

[fringe pawn]

Well holy crap. I've already collected 41 spheres and 3 sloops. So I apparently have 31 more sloops out there waiting for me. I feel like there were already enough spheres in the game, but hey, more surge filling of the cloud is better.

[pastel obsidian]

Use one of the calculator tools to see how much you need to make

[prime ravine]

(46.875x10)+93.75+(15x112.5) can someone help me get this into 15x150

[tidal dock]

The Valve actually working as intended. 1200 Bauxite using Sloppy Alumina and Eclectro Scraps recipe and recycle the water directly back to Sloppy refineries.

[prime ravine]

i have (10x46.875)+93.75+(112.3*3) and i need that in 2 lots of 450 can i have a hand figuring out how to mix it so i get 2 lots of 450

[pastel obsidian]

What are you doing

Is it a fluid or items

[prime ravine]

making fuel but just need this last little bit to be put into a blender

and its fluid

[pastel obsidian]

A mixture of under and or overclocking would be my best recommendation

[prime ravine]

i already have the exact numbers i need just need to pipe it i know i will need valves

[pastel obsidian]

You didn't need valves

Have two pipes and connect half to one and the other half to the other

[prime ravine]

how do i get that number to half

[pastel obsidian]

Where are you getting all of the numbers from?

[prime ravine]

from 1 blender not at max 3 blenders at max and 10 refs at max

all making turbo fuel

useing alt turbo blend for blenders and normal recipy for refs

[pastel obsidian]

I would get yourself as close to 450 in each pipe and connect the ends on the pipes together so the overflow goes into other system

[prime ravine]

ok

[prime ravine]

is it bad to use valves

[pastel obsidian]

They have their uses, but they don't work in the way you think they do. Incorrectly using valves causes more problems then it solves

Like path signals, if used properly can be amazing but also can be your biggest headache

[prisma kraken]

valves work non-intuitively and often do the opposite of what you want. on top of that they're inexact at metering flows and just best to avoid using at all unless you have something like a weapons plant that you want to cut oil off to when you've made a few crates of stuff

i've been playing the game for a while now and in my building and watching other people build, i have yet to find a practical use for a valve

usually what happens is you get to making aluminum or batteries and thing 'gee a valve would be useful here' so you build it and it just makes everything not work at 100% when it was fine without a valve if you properly built things

...and on a different note, 120gw rocket fuel uprade is done!

i find it funny how deceptively complicated nitric acid is to actually build

[vale wyvern]

Q: did you use 600m3 pipes?

[prisma kraken]

only mk2 pipe in the build is the crude feed coming in which i split into 2 mk1 pipes after pumping it up a height

yeah, this is the only mk2 in the entire power plant

[vale wyvern]

nice are the mk1 pipes running at 300m3?

[prisma kraken]

some

[vale wyvern]

im having gas thoughput issues

i know mk2 pipes can do 600m3 fine provided pipe connections are perfect as with maths

for fluids...

seems the gas is a bit of a pain though

[prisma kraken]

really the entire fuel production is divided into 8 modules

each 2 of those modules is fed by 3 refineries making hor from 300 oil

[vale wyvern]

I got 24x MK2 pipes running 600m3 rocket fuel

1440 gens clocked at 240% for 10m3 consumption rate

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm not trying to push the pipes even to capacity

[vale wyvern]

60 gens per pipe (600/60=10)

[prisma kraken]

each generator feed is 250/min rf for 24 generators at 250%

[vale wyvern]

its stable like 99% of the time

but unexplainably every so often a gen gets starved

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, big fuel manifolds are always that way

[unborn ermine]

I liked having mine be little modules with loops in the floor for the fuel feed.

[vale wyvern]

so hard to identify where it is or if its just a known issue with gas at pipe capacity

[prisma kraken]

this is how each of my generator banks is built

keep in mind that i built it all as a turbofuel plant, so keeping gravity on my friendly side was a must

[vale wyvern]

mine is basically the same the only difference is i ran the pipe inputs over the top of the bank

[prisma kraken]

i'm still doing the burn-in for it all, but haven't seen any problems yet

some of the modules have been running for a couple of days now

[vale wyvern]

yeah it might still be the stabilizing period

[prisma kraken]

that's just a long a** manifold

you're going to have slosh with things built that way

[vale wyvern]

they are stable af though

so i dont understand lol

even the last machine is 100%

so its downtime is so infrequent that it still maintains 100%

[prime ravine]

hey i just got back from making some food can you see how i have used valves and tell me if they will cause issues

[vale wyvern]

or it drops to 98% then quickly regains 100%

[prisma kraken]

i wonder if changing the flow to be like this could help:

[vale wyvern]

this might be a good idea

[prime ravine]

this valve is letting 112.5 making the pipe that it is going to get up to the required 450

[vale wyvern]

what you think about looping the manifold floors

at both ends

[prisma kraken]

@prime ravine i think having it there will a) have no effect or b) cause problems

[prime ravine]

lol

[prisma kraken]

sorry, that's just my opinion

[vale wyvern]

its a valid opinion lol

[prisma kraken]

well it comes from a few 1000 hrs in the game working with pipes, so take it or leave it

[vale wyvern]

appears to be consistent for a full timelapse window now so idk probably the stabilizing period still at work

[prime ravine]

is there a point to having fluid buffers when dealing with fluids

[pastel obsidian]

If you use train stations

[prisma kraken]

they exist for allowing continuous flow from fluid trains and for dealing with byproduct fluids as a 'later problem'

[prime ravine]

ok so i dont need them for my fuel gens

[prisma kraken]

probably not

[prime ravine]

]

this is what i have done

[pastel obsidian]

It looks nice

[prisma kraken]

in past versions of the game, for a while people would bank some fuel in case they had a catastrophic power failure

[prime ravine]

ok

so it is very mildly worth it

[prisma kraken]

when you put a buffer on a line, and this goes for belts too, you aren't really solving anything, just time-shifting when a problem might manifest

[prime ravine]

sweet

[prisma kraken]

in general, you want things to break immediately instead of 10 hrs later

[prime ravine]

even if its my main power in my world

[prisma kraken]

there are better ways of creating failsafes for power

[prime ravine]

like having a power bank near it to jump start it

[prisma kraken]

right

[prime ravine]

i got that just underneath it

[prisma kraken]

the other thing about buffers is they tend to make fluids slosh around more than they would otherwise

[prime ravine]

so should i remove them

[prisma kraken]

that's just my experience with them

i'd say if it isn't broken now, leave em

[pastel obsidian]

A fluid buffer doesn't hold that much fuel, you might be better off with batteries as a backup if that's what you are after

[prime ravine]

ok

[prisma kraken]

what i will say is that if you start running into problems later with generator stability, the first thing people will tell you to do is get rid of the buffers

[pastel obsidian]

If it works keep it for the aesthetics, it gives off an industrial feel imo

[prisma kraken]

so if it isn't broken now, no reason to change things, but expect if you have problems later, not to be married to them being there

i agree, they look kinda nifty

[pastel obsidian]

We need a mega fluid buffer for aesthetics like the size of the nuclear reactor

[prime ravine]

i found that they were causing mild issues cus they wernt full when i turned the gens on so i have gotten rid of them

[pastel obsidian]

That's fair

[prisma kraken]

i really do advise to keep fuel manifolds as simple as possible, with as few generators on a feed as you can get away with and as small of a pipe distance as things allow for

yeah, that is another point, fuel power works better/is more stable when the pipes are COMPLETELY full

the buffers just make that take a lot longer

as i said, don't change things if it's working

with fuel power, when you achieve stability, move on and don't screw with it anymore

[gray night]

im confused are you just feeding this raw crude

(still relatively new to the game 😄)

[prime ravine]

its rocket fuel and its the best fuel in the game for gens

[gray night]

interesting i thought it stopped at turbofuel 💀

which is a nightmare for automation (at least with how im planning to do it)

[prime ravine]

lol

[prisma kraken]

turbofuel isn't bad if you pick the right quantities for the recipe(s) you are planning to use

[gray night]

the reason its horrible is the fact i want the train line to look nice 😭

but that'll impact delivery time so I have 0 clue how to address that problem

is it better to fuel drones with turbo fuel or just packaged fuel

i was going the turbo route so excess could just get uploaded for jetpack

[prisma kraken]

it isn't that long of a distance, and everything you need for fuel/tf/rf power is right in blue crater

tf isn't very good in the jetpack - burns very quick

[gray night]

so should I figure out rf for jetpack?

[prisma kraken]

people's general feeling is that lbf or ion fuel are best in the jetpack

[gray night]

there's a lot more fuels than I thought there was holy cow

[prisma kraken]

rocket is a lot like turbo, quick fast burn but with a little more oompf

[river night]

they added 2 new fuels with 1.0, thats about it

[gray night]

so what is the best fuel for the drones?

I want to setup a drone network for moving stuff from steel to the main area

[prisma kraken]

plut rods are best if you discount the logistics challenge and radioactivity

[gray night]

what about pre-nuclear?

[spare jolt]

obligatory pound-force joke here

[prisma kraken]

i'm very mixed on the drone fuel question

[unborn ermine]

Rocket Fuel probably imho, since I havent felt the need to touch batteries at all.

[gray night]

ooo they can run on batteries?

[prisma kraken]

rf and if are best non-nuclear fuels, but making little bits of them for drones is kind of uggg to do

[unborn ermine]

Like one of the very few uses for batteries is drones

[spare jolt]

they were running only on batteries before 1.0

[unborn ermine]

Using RF for drones is very light on aluminum use.

[prisma kraken]

the thing i hate about using rf and ion fuel for drones is that you're still burning aluminum with it

[spare jolt]

though with Classic Battery alt you can mass produce batteries without any liquids

one manufacturer makes 30/min

[gray night]

kk ty all

[unborn ermine]

not even mentioning batteries

but yeah still

less but still

[prisma kraken]

yeah, batteries take alum too

i still haven't seen a side-by-side on which uses less alum

[unborn ermine]

1 ingot per bottle normally

[prisma kraken]

yeah, fuel per trip

they're not easy numbers to crunch

[unborn ermine]

Well, 1 battery a min (without alts) is 3.5/min ore

3.166666~ with sloppy electro pure

and 2.874/min with classic added on top

[prisma kraken]

let's use this a sample set of numbers

[unborn ermine]

So yeah rocket fuel defo wins the aluminum competition

at least for burning

[prisma kraken]

so classic battery is 7 sheet for 4 batteries (7/4) and rf/if are 1 ingot per unit

[unborn ermine]

thats also comparing with the same aluminum setup of sloppy electro pure, 1 ore -> 1 ingot

[prime ravine]

@prisma kraken are you able to help me with the thing i was asking for help with earlyer

[prisma kraken]

perhaps?

[prime ravine]

like in game

or i screen share it to you

[prisma kraken]

yeah looks like batteries are around 2x the cost of rf

i can't screen share now, sorry

and i wouldn't if i could, i help with easy questions, but i don't coach

[prime ravine]

ok thats fair

[fringe pawn]

Well there we go, all 34 duped somersloops rounded up. I have no idea whether I'll actually use them, but at least I've got them now.

For now I think I'll hang onto them, but if CSS keepings 'adding' to save files then I'll probably give in and use them.

Pretty crazy that every sphere except 15 were added back. Factoring research, I now will have more than double the useable number before.

[unborn ermine]

nice, I only got 5 more possible sloops, and I only had a handful left to find.
71 spheres tho? No Idea what I would even think of needing them for.

[fringe pawn]

The sphere allocation was already plenty generous.

And my brain is melting contemplating the possibilities now that I have 138 sloops. 104 was a great number because it's just enough to use on a maximized warp drives build, so there's not much interesting decision making. Now do I use the extra on singularity cells? Rockets? Bite the bullet on power use and do oscillators?

[fringe pawn]

Would the implementation of sloops into calculators require making 5 copies of every manufacturer recipe? Vanilla, and then 250% clocked with each amount of possible sloops? And then the same for each other production building? And that doesn't even cover all use cases. Oof. Too much of a mess probably.

[fickle roost]

Is there like a 'best location for Bauxite' ?

[vast jungle]

not really... each bauxite spot has advantages and disadvantages... even assuming you have all the possible alt recipes

[leaden cosmos]

for me it was near the center map oil, it doesnt take much petro coke to refine a lot of aluminium 🙂

[vast jungle]

luckily coal is quite easy to find in the "middle belt" of the map that contains bauxite... even oil is okay, just don't forget to include the Oil resource wells into your scouting ^^

[patent blaze]

i just turn copper into bauxite

[vast jungle]

this just changes the question to "where is the SAM located" 😉

[patent blaze]

:P

over there haha

[vast jungle]

I have a similar elevator to get my Bauxit down to the Oil-fields on the West coast (or at least to sea-level)

is someone using the Silica based Aluminium recipes?

[patent blaze]

no im using instant scrap

[astral warren]

I looooove instant scrap

[vast jungle]

I am using Electrode Scrap for my first Aluminium... West coast oil was just closeby...

[astral warren]

Yeah I used it for my first factory too

Then moved over to Instant when I decided to scale it up

[vast jungle]

still undecided if I want to make the Aluminium production into a set of blueprints

[astral warren]

Mine uses like 80% of the bauxite on the map so im not gonna bother to bp it personally

What I would like to bp are some ore processing setups to process 1200/min of iron, copper, etc

[vast jungle]

I just use 600/min at the moment... and I normally BP everything. But with Aluminium I couldn't decide how to split it, so I just build a small fac and moved on for now

[astral warren]

With instant scrap you could bp a refinery -> blender setup pretty easily I think

And maybe have the smelters in a different bp due to spacial constraints

[vast jungle]

yeah, but then I need sulfur too ^^

at the moment the small setup is okay, if I need more I will think about the BPs again... currently I really need to finish my RF powerplant, my power production is below half the max consumption ^^

[astral warren]

Yeah my next step after doing uranium reprocessing is to make a comical amount of ionized fuel

[prime ravine]

why is oil such a useless resource

[wind spade]

what

[prime ravine]

when you get the 2 or 3 pure nodes of oil making rubber and plasitic and 4 nodes making fuel it becomes useless

[wind spade]

why

[prime ravine]

there is nothing else to do with it

can you convert it

if not i have no more use for oil

[wind spade]

same could be said for any other resource

"if I use X for everything I need, rest of X is useless"

and you can also make coke, resin, etc. Oil is pretty useful

[prime ravine]

but with all the other resources are used in other recipies

[wind spade]

oil is as well

you can literally make iron plates out of oil (and iron plates are in like majority of products)

[prime ravine]

another issue is oil is hard to transport around the world

[wind spade]

process it where you found it

or use trains

[fickle roost]

Anyone know why the second signal is flashing?

As in it does not seem to work

[outer vale]

doesn't seem very math- or -meta related
but first thought'd be that track probably just doesn't go anywhere? The last signal on a track will always show that

[fickle roost]

Ah I was not sure if the last one would always do that

[thorny root]

I need help with a logic problem: Packager / unpackager loop. 1 train, 2 platforms per stop. 2 stops. Rules: Only carry full cans outbound, never empties. Only carry empty cans on return, never full ones. Do not overfill the system with empty canisters, such that the unpackager backs up. I need a simple semi automated solution for this. I expect roughly 4 minutes between trains.

is the only solution to this to prefill the return train station with empties, and tell it to wait until fully unloaded / loaded at BOTH stops? Because I want to avoid that if possible.

I want a non stop continous flow.

Without overfilling the system with empties.

Also in case it wasn't obvious... I want a closed loop that doesn't just keep sinking empty cans...

I feel like there's a simple straight forward solution with smart splitters just staring me in the face and I don't see how it would work.

Also, I would if possible like to not have to generate empties at each place I'm using them. I would love it if I could have a central factory for that which eventually becomes obselete because everything is full.

and deliver them via a separate train wholly dedicated to empty canister distribution and top off

... I feel like i need a smart merger to exist, or some kind of logical NAND gate

The source of the potential bottleneck is at the unpackager, but I feel like I'm going to have to solve it at the packager side?

[outer vale]

can you just use belt speeds to limit the flow into the unpackagers?

[thorny root]

I don't understand how that would help?

[outer vale]

you're in good company because I don't really understand the problem 😛

it sounded like the only real problem part was "I don't want canisters stopped on belts before the unpackagers", which is solved by just not letting them get there quicker than they can be used

[thorny root]

The problem is basically that the unpackager needs somewhere to put the empties, and I want automated empty canister level regulation without backing up the unpackager line or making the trains fully wait.

[thorny root]

no... I expect full flow there. It'll be tuned to match whatever the input volume is. Matched input and output volumes on the closed loop.

(for cans anyway)

[outer vale]

then yeah I'm not grasping the issue, it sounds like it should Just Work as long as you've got enough canisters in there

[thorny root]

So... empty cans come in from an outside source, and drop them at the packager side. This is the only place I can regulate the volume of empty can injection. The outbound side would require a "smart merger"

which does not exist.

[outer vale]

is this not a standard closed loop setup?

[thorny root]

Not exactly... no. Because I don't want to have to manually determine how many empty cans I need in the loop. It's going to be based on arbitrary things like train traffic and route times.

It needs an automatic solution so I don't go crazy.

I'll be bringing empties from 2 sources, but I only want to use them from one source as a priority.

the return line for empty cans should somehow have priority to feed the system.

But should be able to be topped off by the secondary train that distributes empties.

And I need to do all this without backlogging the unpackagers or sinking cans.

... I'm willing to accept sinking a very very tiny volume of cans as a safety measure. Basically the difference between the minimum and maximum round trip times.

... I don't know that there is a way to do this without forcing the trains to wait for full load / unload cycle. There's no other method for volume regulation.

c'mon nerds you're good at this stuff

... Hmm... what if I decoupled the empties train from the fluid train, and had each run independent loop? ... no that's a terrible idea.

... this is hard 😦

[vast jungle]

yeah, there is no good solution for this scenario beyond "put in more canisters manually"

thats why I don't package liquids for trains

[thorny root]

... okay so ... manually counting the number in play... 1 full ISC at the loading dock of the return station, waiting on pickup. 1 full ISC worth in fluid somehere between the inbound buffer of the train and the unpackager output. 1 full ISC worth containing fluid, waiting at the origin point for pickup. 1 full ISC of empties in the process of being filled at the origin point. 1 full ISC of either full or empty in transit on the train. 1 empty ISC buffer: 4 minute window.

The biggest concern is not getting backlogged anywhere, and as long as I don't start sinking my empties and forget I'm doing it, it should always maintain the same number in the loop. So then it just becomes 2 easier to solve problems... Having enough cans to start with, and having enough empty space for cans.

... I'm going to do 6 full 2 empty, stockpiling at the filling station.

... I don't need to do 2 empty. Just 6 full. By the time the system really comes online I'll have like 4 empty at all times.

... okay. So the easiest solution is just a massive pre-filled can buffer.

... screw it 8 full.

That's basically double the number of cans actually being used, and enough room to have the entire loop grind to a complete hault and it not be its fault.

[vast jungle]

you could just eyeball it...

[thorny root]

I ballpark mathed it. Same concept, different problem.

[vast jungle]

have one ISC at each Gas/Liquid Receiver...

and one ISC per Receiver at the "transmitter" station

and then just fill all the ISCs at the transmitter

that should work "reasonable well"...

the problem might be that the trains and the train stations are also buffers

[thorny root]

I'm going to do it the way I've outlined. 8 ISC full of empties at the origin point before ever turning the thing on. As it starts cycling, the buffer will go down to about half before it starts getting the return feed, but that means I've got the whole buffer that can go either way. Full or empty.

[thorny root]

that is the problem and why smart splitters aren't going to help me.

[vast jungle]

Smart splitters are useless for loops of this kind

[thorny root]

I'm seeing that.

Smart merger when devs?

[vast jungle]

would not help that much

[thorny root]

Anyway... this is an acceptable solution. It takes up a lot of the room you were looking to do something about XD

[vast jungle]

you can build a "overflow merger"... but it breaks (as would a smart merger) when you don't have a full blocking belt of "priority items"

[thorny root]

I could also split the buffer half and half. Still pre-fill the whole thing, just have the buffer be in two places, at both the loading and unloading stations. That's smarter than having all my eggs in one basket I think.

that way I could start having hiccups at either end and still be fine for a full 8 minutes

Well I guess that means I can simplify a lot of my plans regarding cannister production... One small factory that I'm going to manually turn on and off, and have its train do a few trips and then stop.

Well I guess it'll automatically turn the factory on and off when I tell the train to do stuff.

So... as I online these fluid packager / unpackager loops, I'll do a little bit of train housekeeping, and waiting... but I can probably do that while building the thing. Have it be ready by the time I finish.

[empty flower]

how do i calculate how much power will i get from 600 uranium ore per minute with vanilla recipes?

all into ficsonium rods

[thorny root]

build a nuclear power plant. Figure out how many fuel rods you're producing total. Figure out how many rods you'll be making with the 1st tier of waste. Then the 2nd tier. Finally figure out how much total power comes from each rod type at the volume you're producing by mousing over the fuel icon in the top left of the nuclear power plant window. Much manual math is required.

[empty flower]

so is power based of rods per minute?

[wind spade]

never, there's no need for it in SF

[thorny root]

yes. The consumption rate is in the tooltip of the fuel canister icon when viewing the nuclear power plant itself.

[empty flower]

thank you 😄

[thorny root]

keep in mind that each rod type produces a different amount of energy

[empty flower]

ok i will calculate this quickly

[thorny root]

Wouldn't that be nice.

[empty flower]

131,250 mw per min i think

for 600 uranium fully processed

[flint lagoon]

Technically MW is not per min, 130GW but its in the area. My nuclear plants uranium phase is fed with 9,6/min uranium rods, made from 600/min uranium with the Infused Uranium Cell recipe. So thats 19,2 reactors on 250% clock = 120GW

[vast jungle]

yes, Dimensional Depot will just be not enough for this ^^

more like "empty my inventory and fill it with containers before travelling"

[brisk smelt]

recycle it too :p

[flint lagoon]

Yes of course, thats about 10 Plutonium Reactors and 5 Ficsonium on the next phases netting around 210GW. But im pulling some of the Plutoium rods to Drone fueling so they dont run 100%

[vast jungle]

that sounds interesting and dangerous 😄

[flint lagoon]

Its still there, not a crater yet #screenshots message

[analog meteor]

i think im not gonna deal with ficsonium and only use uranium power and sink and use plutonium for drones

is that a good idea?

[vast jungle]

I mean the filling the drones with plutonium-rods... I hope you want to do it by hand with a single rod?

[flint lagoon]

No, I just have slooped one of the Plutonium Rod Manufacturer to feed the Drone ports, overflow going to sink. Single drone flies a looooong time with 50 stack of Pu-rods 😄

[vast jungle]

"The bird of radioactive doom"

[flint lagoon]

I think the drone itself has only 1 rod onbard, the stack stays at the home port. And produce no waste 😬 Or maybe they do and drop it in bushed for doggos to dig up.

[vast jungle]

okay, Drone-Port of doom?

a stack of PRods is a nice radiation zone

[flint lagoon]

Yeah it is. But 1 ISC feeding Hazmat filters to Dimensional Depot lasts long.

[vast jungle]

you just have to remember to take them out ^^

[flint lagoon]

Im biased but it works for me 😄

The Ficsonium phase is lot of work. Nuclear pasta, Diamonds and Trigons, and I was surprised how much concrete went into the 3 phasing.

[copper seal]

wait if you use them in a drone do you still get by product or not? xd

[flint lagoon]

Nope, does not produce waste if used in drone. Just joking about doggos

[brisk smelt]

yepp i have so many red dots across the map and just get the geiger beeps occansionally

they should add hazmat walls...

[karmic locust]

How much ionized fuel is needed to run a.. let's say 100 drones network. I understand it depends on distance etc.. but what would be a good number ?

[wind spade]

it heavily depends on distance, hard to say

[karmic locust]

let's say all of em do half the map size trips

[eager solar]

other than not being affected by headlift gas are the same as liquids right?

[karmic locust]

so 2.7km

[wind spade]

how fast they go there and back? 🙂

[karmic locust]

how does that matter

speed of drones with ionized is 45m/s

[wind spade]

since drones take fuel based on distance, but if they clear it in half time, they take fuel twice as often, effectively eating double the fuel

so if they will be waiting for empty drone port or going around terrain (afaik they do that), they will use less fuel per minute

hence why it's so hard to estimate it

[karmic locust]

pff, thats why trains are goated

[wind spade]

~~yeah because trains are super easy to estimate how much power they will use \s ~~

[brisk smelt]

should be able to overclock trains with end-game fuel 😔

[vast jungle]

trains are super easy to refuel 😉

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they run on anything you can burn in a generator 😉

[wind spade]

which is basically true for drones as well

[vast jungle]

no FIcsonium Rods and no packaged Biofuel! 😄

[copper seal]

biomass drones here i go

ok, aluminium making question

the machines do use up some water right, just not all of it?

[deft lichen]

the entire setup has a water byproduct

[copper seal]

so you put in water into the first machine and overclock it so its makes more water byproduct, then you put that byproduct into the next machine, overclock that one, so on so on?

and every time it has to be precisely as much water byproduct as the next machine uses, right?

[deft lichen]

so you can either
a) mix fresh and recycled water into the input (I personally don't recommend this)
b) separate setups consuming fresh and recycled water
c) only use fresh water and get rid of the water byproduct elsewhere (burn off in coal generators, wet concrete, package and sink, etc.)

[copper seal]

until.... you end up with no water? or just enough water to be used in the next step of the process?

i really don't get it

say i have 6 machines, i do all the overclocking right, i still have water left

is there a process later in aluminium making that then uses that water without also throwing out a liquid as a byproduct?

[deft lichen]

no, you always get excess

[copper seal]

whatever

[spare jolt]

technically you can try making a loop working only on waste water, but this requires slooping and wasting sloops on alumina is kinda eh

[copper seal]

or i can just uninstall this game and save the hard disk space

[spare jolt]

fair.

delete the game. go touch some grass, find a wife/husband, make children, raise them and die. much better.

[dark star]

feeding water back into your alumina production and then adding as much extra as nessecary using a priority input valve is usually the way i go

[prisma kraken]

hmmm, new patch reset the slugs and sphere collectables in the world

[spare jolt]

not all of them

there are some spaces that didn't have them reset

[prisma kraken]

what about sloops?

[copper seal]

there is no such thing as a priority input valve its just something people made up on their own to overcome this games' shit liquid mechanics

[spare jolt]

not sure, didn't find any reset one yet

[copper seal]

ever single time liquids are involved this game becomes 2x less fun

[dark star]

its quite an easy setup to make that works BECAUSE of the way the game treats fluids

[spare jolt]

yes I also love liquids, how did you know

[dark star]

but if you dont wanna build that, yeah you could just produce the water needed, and take the byproduct water and find a way to use or sink it

[prisma kraken]

what all was reset:

[amber umbra]

I’ve been seeing collectibles resetting every time I re-load a save.

[spare jolt]

holy shit that a lot of spheres

and I already collected like half of them before the patch for dd upgrades 💀

[proud totem]

Yeah, we've been talking a good bit about this in https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1303060354615480423

[dark star]

i think i understand your confusion now, and we can probably talk about it further.. but it seems you're pretty fed up with it, so if not then no worries

[spare jolt]

either way, I don't really mind excess shards and spheres and sloops. if it becomes too many of them, i can flush them

[proud totem]

I'm curious as to some of the problems you run into with mixing fresh and recycled? I've seen this opinion before, but I just started aluminum so I haven't really experienced much. All I did was a basic setup with 1 water extractor and mixing the recycled back in with the fresh (since the 1 extractor gave 120, the recycled gave 60, total of 180 needed for the full running system once it started up) but that seemed to work, albeit a simple setup

[dark star]

actually, could maybe make an aluminum setup without water feedback by making the exact amount of instant scrap (use the water byproduct to make the sulfuric acid)

[fringe seal]

with strategic slooping, you can eliminate water input from aluminum chain

[dark star]

that works, i usually slightly overproduce water but use a priority valve so the system takes the water byproduct first

im setting up multiple pure nodes of bauxite at this point, to dont have that many sloops

[deft lichen]

output stops, fresh water input doesn't, the setup "gridlocks" because the byproduct water can't enter the common water pipe

[proud totem]

Okay that makes sense. So if you have a guaranteed place for the output to go (i.e. an sink) then it should work under ideal circumstances

[deft lichen]

yes

[copper seal]

guess i can do that

[fringe seal]

people often recommend wet concrete for getting rid of byproduct water

[copper seal]

just package water and sink it lmfao

[deft lichen]

this applies even if the second step (alumina) uses a common pipe

I think wet concrete is bad and sinking very bad, the only right way without recycling would be coal generators

[proud totem]

TBH I'd rather just add a failsafe overflow with sinks for my output than spend other resources to sink water, and ensure that at all costs the output doesn't stop (wow sorry, I worded all that really poorly)

[copper seal]

i'd rather not touch liquids at all if possible.

[dark star]

im afraid you're gonna hate the next tiers of production

[proud totem]

Wet concrete is a good idea though

[copper seal]

thats why im considering just uninstalling

[spare jolt]

you can't not touch the liquids, but you can minimize dealing with them

[dark star]

fluids really arent that bad, just keep your fluid systems small and iterate in blueprints

[fringe seal]

the bs fluid mechanics are just artificial difficulty at this point

[copper seal]

i can deal with fluids if its just that

but if it then starts putting out water byproducts and the entire system can for some nonsense reason gridlock

[proud totem]

Liquids are honestly not all that bad. Yes they are a bit finnicky, but nearly every problem I have experienced or seen talked about had a relatively simple solution

[spare jolt]

build fluid buildings in simple ratios like 1:1 or 1:2 close to each other, separate one complex pipe system into many small ones etc

[dark star]

artificially difficult? its a game, they made the later tiers more challenging ofcourse

[copper seal]

maybe i'll just make a gigantic ass buffer and flush it once in a while

another option i guess.

[amber umbra]

Video games inherently have difficulty created by the devs that the player overcomes using the game mechanics. Is what it is.

[thorny root]

this is more or less what I do. I find a ratio of machines that results in a clean even number of machines, and throughput, and go from there. I make multiple of this smaller setup

[fringe seal]

i.e. what should have worked if you go by what the game tells you, but the fluid mechanics in this game is so convoluted that it does not work if you are encountering it the first time (and second, and third, ...)

[spare jolt]

for exmaple, my direct (each building goes right into the next one) package water > DPFuel > unpackage fuel loop have been proving flawless so far

[copper seal]

even the devs thought the mk2 pipes were bugged, so its not a good game mechanic

[proud totem]

And just don't max out flow rate on pipes. The second I started treating MKII pipes as max 480-500 flow, my problems disappeared

[copper seal]

like i said i can deal with mk2 pipes at full capacity thats no problem

just loop it back on itself

[fringe seal]

loops have never worked on me lmao

[copper seal]

but liquids "gridlocking" is nonsense

[fringe seal]

I just very slightly underproduce the water extractor

[thorny root]

Someone's never heard of hydrostatic pressure.

[spare jolt]

also simple systems don't really need loops tbh

[copper seal]

thats what overflow valves are for.

[proud totem]

I don't see how gridlocking it is nonsense. You end up producing more water than you can handle, it has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is a pause in production. Gridlocking can even happen with belts

[thorny root]

waste is against ficsit policy

[copper seal]

just put it back into the lake

[amber umbra]

Trains “loop saturate” gridlock as well; doesn’t mean the trains are bad. Mechanics are what they are.

[thorny root]

But your lizard doggo drinks from that lake... is this really safe?

[copper seal]

lizard doggo can eat my cluster nobelisk.

[proud totem]

Can I apply that to my sulfiric acid too? I kinda wish we could actually produce and dump waste in this game 😂

[copper seal]

also isn't the entire point that we're supposed to be exploiting the planet without remorse?

[charred saffron]

All jokes and high emotions aside, a fluid sink or option to pump excess ~~fluids ~~water into a lake would be kinda nice. No clue how to make it make sense, but it'd be cool

[fringe seal]

tbh I kinda like feedback loops

[copper seal]

there are mods for it

but if possible i'd avoid mods

[fringe seal]

it's just, all instances of it involves fluids in this game

[amber umbra]

Rocket fuel default is belt feedback loop w compacted coal.

[fringe seal]

right

[charred saffron]

Yeah same. I want to avoid mods for as long as updates happen regularly. Not bothered to deal with the game being unplayable every few weeks due to updates/hotfixes

Besides, the game is fun enough without mods for now

[copper seal]

i mean, i use mods, thats np, but i want to avoid mods to skip steps if possible

plenty of good QOL mods

[fringe seal]

belts are fine. you can exactly see what is happening where
fluids are like a black box that occasionally breaks, because fuck you.

[copper seal]

We used to have Smart! which was amazing, or Infinite/Blueprint Zoop, or Daisy Chain Everything (not really necessary or even better, just looks better visually), or SkyUI, stuff like that

well as long as there are no fluid byproducts involved, just looping the pipe from the end back to the start tends to fix alot of stuff :p

[fringe seal]

btw. I am now half convinced that loops are an elaborate sham to fool newbies

[copper seal]

I already spent 3 days trying to make oil work a week ago, but i've been putting off Aluminium for like 4 days now because 1. I don't understand it 2. it makes no sense and 3. it doesn't even look fun

[charred saffron]

They do work, but fluid physics are in general a little bit whack

[amber umbra]

For my actual advice, just look up verified solutions to the aluminum water byproduct problem, implement it, and move on to a different production line. Pretty sure like 80%+ of players just look up how to do it.

[copper seal]

i tried but it still doesn't make sense

and even if i try to just follow the instructions word by word, and i do get it to work

its for some 300 bauxite setup

[spare jolt]

reminder that you can buy aluminum items in the awesome shop

[amber umbra]

It’s still enjoyable to take the concept (like dedicated machines to consume the byproduct) and tune a production line as you like within the framework.

[copper seal]

while i need more than that

and those setups tend to not even use the alt recipes i have

[fringe seal]

what recipe are you using

[amber umbra]

I just finished my Al setup using alts. Guess ping me if you want to copy it.

[copper seal]

none because i didn't even start yet

but i have electrode scrap and sloppy alumina

[fringe seal]

iirc one sloppy alumina @ 90% + one sloppy alumina @ 210% takes exactly 600 bauxite

and the refinery @ 210% can take all wastewater now with electrode scrap

[copper seal]

what are the numbers for 2160 bauxite?

🤔

[amber umbra]

I found a “unit” consuming 300 baxuite is nice for those alts. Then copy paste until you get desired total output.

[copper seal]

or rather 2x 780 and 1x 600

[fringe seal]

if there is a feedback loop, and it is mathed out
I'd flush the entire system and let it balance itself
unless you already tried that

[copper seal]

i didnt even start i just said that lol

i've been putting it off for 4 days because im trying to understand it

and i just can't, because it doesn't make sense

[fringe seal]

sloppy alumina eats 200/min
you need to divide it 3 (for freshwater) : 7 (wastewater)
2160 * (3/10) / 200 = 3.24
2160 * (7/10) / 200 = 7.56
so 324% total and 756% total

3.24 + 7.56 = 10.80, 10.80 * 200 = 2160

[fringe seal]

🤦‍♂️ and of course I always make at least one math mistake

[copper seal]

xD

[fringe seal]

anyway I think this one is correct

[sharp warren]

does this tool also have an option to create your own visualization maps from sctratch? like instead of inserting input/outputs you manually build a map as you would in game

[brisk smelt]

no

[sharp warren]

aww

[brisk smelt]

its a calculator for a reason, it gives you the bset recipes which minimize weighted resource usage

[outer vale]

it doesn't care how you lay it out or connect it up

in particular there's ~infinite ways for how you split any specific node into a set of clocked buildings

[fringe seal]

    -200 Baux -200 Water +240 Alu. Solution / min
1 Electrode Scrap: 
    +105 Water -60 Coke -180 Alu. Solution +300 Scrap / min

Removing irrelevant parts: 
1 Sloppy: 
    -200 Water +240 Alu. Solution / min
1 Electrode Scrap: 
    +105 Water -180 Alu. Solution / min

Matching the Alu. Solution amount: 
.75 Sloppy: 
    -150 Water +180 Alu. Solution / min
1 Electrode Scrap: 
    +105 Water -180 Alu. Solution / min

105 - 150 = 45
The system will mostly supply its own water, but we need to add 45 water / min

45 : 105 = 3 : 7
30% of water consumers use fresh water, 70% of water consumers use recycled water

[shy nova]

I have a question about how to optimize production of iron and copper ingots. I have an area with 600 iron available and 300 copper available, I also have two alternate recipes I can use for this. These recipes are the alloy recipes, the iron ingot alloy is 40Iron ore per minute and 10 copper ore per minute to make 75 iron ingots per minute. The Copper Alloy Recipe is 50 Copper ore and 50 iron ore to make 100 copper ingots per minute. How could I maximise the amount of both ores I can produce?

[thorny root]

Don't bother trying to increase iron output with copper. Iron is extremely abundant and is not going to be a bottleneck. Copper is the opposite.

[shy nova]

You are correct about that, but if I wanted to do it anyways for fun, how could I go about it?

[thorny root]

Pure copper via refinery. Pure Iron via refinery. T5 tech required.

The highest yield recipes are the "Leached" ones, followed by the "Tempered" ones, followed by the "Pure" ones. Not every processing method exists for every metal. The alloy type are 4th highest yield, just a hair above the default base processing recipes.

With Leached, you pay a heavy price: Sulfur. Extremely rare compared to the demand at end game, it is not recommended to leach anything unless you have to. Tempered isn't so bad if you're past needing fuel for electricity, you can repurpose those refineries after you're done with that and do this instead. It's good for bauxite and caterium. Pure is the one I use for everything else.

To min max an example: Quickwire... Tempered caterium (or pure), pure copper, -> Fused quickwire

[shy nova]

I suppose refinery alt recipes are the way to go. I wanted to avoid those recipes because refineries are so large, but I just have to suck it up

[thorny root]

they get a lot less crap to do when you unlock the mk2 blueprinter and can then prefab a block of 4 complete with manifolds and just plop plop plop connect

[shy nova]

Noted!

[thorny root]

its a little tight but you can even get all of it in 4x5 of the 5x5. As long as you make use of a logi layer under the refinery for the double stack of manifold

[shy nova]

Thanks, I might do that if I can make it look good

[thorny root]

I mean... it's tidy. It's not flashy. It's also extremely efficient. Mind the head lift.

[shy nova]

Looks good for a blueprint. Most blueprints tend to have insane clipping and spaghetti but this one looks decently clean

[thorny root]

its near mininimal part count. It doesn't even have a roof or electricity routed.... XD

[lean fable]

Would it be worth spending some time setting up a liquid biofuel production line to use for the jetpack?

[thorny root]

not unless you really really really like picking grass and wood and shit.

[brisk smelt]

no

just make ionized or smt

[lean fable]

professional flower picker

[thorny root]

... if he's contemplating biofuel for the jetpack, he doesn't have ionized.

[lean fable]

does it look like i have ionized

[brisk smelt]

yep

*i am blind nvm

turbo is fine too it just burns out really quickly iirc

[lean fable]

But yeah i though of an alternative for fuel, thinking i could produce a bunch of liquid biofuel from animal protein but even that would time consuming for nothing

[lean fable]

yeah it does, i am running just normal fuel for the moment tho

JUST got into oil

[thorny root]

There is no alternative to fuel until you have turbo fuel. You don't want to waste the time on liquid biofuel. Or even anything biomass derived. Once you unlock coal, you forget that exists. And once you unlock fuel generators, you forget coal power plants exist.

[brisk smelt]

does heavy oil residue also work as jetpack fuel, it works for drones doesn't it

[fringe seal]

systems of equations

[brisk smelt]

calculus!

jk just use algebra

[lean fable]

awesome thanks

[solemn gorge]

Is there a way to sink or get rid of liquids without having to package them?

[thorny root]

no. you must package them to sink them.

[brisk smelt]

npp's

[fringe seal]

A = Iron alloy
B = Copper alloy

Total iron ore = 40A + 50B = 600
Total copper ore = 10A + 50B = 300

[brisk smelt]

or wet concrete works too

[solemn gorge]

😢

[brisk smelt]

is this about alumina hahah

[thorny root]

So... I take it the community thinks sloppy alumina is the superior recipe due to the 20% increased bauxite efficiency?

[brisk smelt]

sloppy is the superior recipe

and electrode

[amber umbra]

Yes, very worth

[brisk smelt]

😋

[thorny root]

facepalm

[amber umbra]

K

[lean fable]

now what the sigma

[fringe seal]

30A = 300
A = 10
Iron Ingots = 750

50B = 200
B = 4
Copper ingots = 400
(ea / min)

[fringe seal]

now I think about it the Iron alloy ingot is more efficient than copper alloy ingot, assuming I value the ores the same

[thorny root]

The ore values aren't the same.

[outer vale]

seeing as there's like 2.5x the iron, you probably shouldn't

buuut it's still huge numbers you'd probably never use all of anyway, so eh

[fringe seal]

if you sloop all the stages you'll get more than enough from your random collections here and there

[thorny root]

and once the box fills pull the sloops, all the input, and forget it exists. It'll last you well beyond the point you unlock ionized fuel.

Also parachute is the superior back equipment until you get hoverpack

Sulfur is more valuable than gold on this planet.

[amber umbra]

For the liquid biofuel topic, because the production chain has so many steps it multiples heavily. So you can fill sloop, overclock the liquid biofuel production for a while, then remove the sloops after filling a storage or three.

[brisk smelt]

yeah, pure is almost always better unless you have all the nodes in the desert available to u

[thorny root]

The converter thinks the ores are valued in this order.

The world distribution doesn't agree but the recipe usage does.

However certain things... just eat sulfur like candy.

[prisma kraken]

FYI, i count 29 sloops that respawned

[thorny root]

I wonder... how silly it would be to sloop a chain from limestone up to bauxite and then back down to sulfur... Just once.

[tidal dock]

for conversion?

[thorny root]

Yes. Conversion multiplication.

[brisk smelt]

so much SAM

[thorny root]

Yeah... a lot of sam.

[tidal dock]

currely, all my sloops goes into SAM production and sink them for now.

[brisk smelt]

can bauxite even go into sulfur?

[thorny root]

... I didn't even think about slooping my sam production. Oh god I'm such a fool. Time to rethink some things.

[thorny root]

Apparently not. Can't go backwards from quartz / copper. Huh!

[tidal dock]

It's been two+ weeks and I haven't finish my factory in Blue Crater.

[thorny root]

I haven't built a factory in 3 weeks. Been working on train stuff.

[tidal dock]

you're finishing up your train skynet, though. aren't you?

[thorny root]

well the network is finished actually. Now I'm adding the stations for the first groups of nodes I'm going to collect.

[brisk smelt]

decorating? :o

[tidal dock]

nah, i'm bad at decoration, I'm just making a mega factory to make lots of mats that needed to make Plutonium Rod. The location also have 140GW Rocket Fuel plant.

[plain fossil]

anyone else design a factory for computers in one place, forget and build another somewhere else

[amber umbra]

Reasonable. Early computers then crystal oscillator computers.

[brisk smelt]

i dont do factories for stuff that low in the production chain

[plain fossil]

i have caterium computers

thats what happens when 800 quickwire/min and nowhere to put it

[brisk smelt]

ah

usually i would do RCC/SC(SSC) megafactory and ship everywhere

[plain fossil]

im not pro enough for abbreviations in this game

[brisk smelt]

radio control unit and supercomputer (solid-state recipe)

[plain fossil]

im so slow tho

im too lazy for stage 3 space elevator stuff

[prisma kraken]

don't feel bad, it took me about 3 years to get to phase 5 😄

[plain fossil]

but its stage 3

i have all of the things for it

[prisma kraken]

honestly, there's no rush 🙂

[plain fossil]

yeah but i only have so much time until big exams or other real life things

[proud totem]

I have 2 manufacturers setup to sloop computers from handfed containers. I keep forgetting I have 2 of them (they are spread far apart) and so I will randomly stumble upon like 500 computers I forgot I had

[proud totem]

Game won't be going anywhere. Just play whenever you can/feel like it. Even if for just an hour, you can still get stuff done in an hour

[brisk smelt]

plan to play for one hour -> realize it's 2am

[wind spade]

I mean if the plan was made at 1am, it's all good

[proud totem]

Fair points 😂

Or you can also always get a notebook and a pencil, and whenever you have a random free hour, work on designing a factory. Open up the wiki and start thinking things through

Then when you have more time you can actually implement it. Also makes it easier to implement in multiple short sessions too since you have a plan

[violet halo]

I remember doing that during lulls at work for DnD decades ago.

[scarlet sky]

Any idea why these machines would go idle? There seems to be no reason for it. It's happening when I walk away and return to them...

yeah, as soon as I get within about 12m of them, they idle for a second or two

[modest viper]

If input are in excess could be the water isn’t being all used

[scarlet sky]

The ouput buffers are empty when this happens

And the input buffers are full

I'm pretty sure it's a small bug but I'm not sure exactly what triggers it

[lunar ingot]

there seems to be a bug with the hoverpack and power switches: when you move from one grid to another, the grid pauses for a bit

[scarlet sky]

Ohh that's probably it

[proud totem]

Was just about to say this one

[scarlet sky]

Interstingly though, the machine is still powered here

Just... idle

Never noticed this bug before

[lunar ingot]

yah, i personally do almost everything on a single grid, only putting things like slooped OC'd particle accelerators and such on a priority switch, so i don't run into it too often. ironically this bug is more annoying if you're more careful with your power.

[scarlet sky]

And I vastly overengineer my power grid and use priority switches all over the place, there's three of them at least in that aluminium plant

While I'm building this out, any ideas on a better way to do it? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=WHWSV5CbHMhnrwOO9nku

[velvet venture]

perfectly balanced, as all things should be

[broken kiln]

so i was going to go the turbofuel route in blue crater, but if i can eek out 50 RCUs, i can just go straight for RF, and this looks to be enough for 720 generators, aka 180GW. I kinda wanted to have a full overkill build for this power plant, but should i even bother for a normal playthrough?

[fringe pawn]

That depends on your goals, but that's overkill if you just want to finish the 5th delivery. Even plain old diluted fuel is plenty for the final delivery. However you want to get to 50-100GW 🤷

[dire forge]

Can someone help me understand efficiency, started playing a couple days ago and I have the following set up:

• Miner Mk1 on Pure Iron Node Produces 120 iron a minute

• This gets split into 2, 60 of it is dealt with elsewhere and 60 continues on

• A second splitter which splits it into 2 lines of 30 these 2 lines

• These 2 lines each go into a smelter that makes iron ingots, both of these smelters show 100% efficiency

• Each smelter connects into a separate constructor, so 2 constructors with 3 iron ingot going in per minute

• One of these constructors is running at 35% efficiency whilst the other is running at 58%, this seems to change frequently sometimes one is higher and one is lower at one point is was 11% vs 84% and sometimes they are around the same at one point it was 66% and 67%

Note: All conveyors are mk2, nothing is overclocked or underclocked

I feel like I am missing something about how this works, any help would be much appreciated

[proud totem]

Watch the constructors for a little bit. Are either of them starved for their inputs? Or perhaps you have a buildup on the output? Machines stop producing if their output buffer is full. If they are starved for input, work backwards to see where the resources are stockpiled at.

If you mathematically should be using all the iron from your miner, check the miner too. Is it at 100% and doesn't build up excess? If so, then you simply have too many machines somewhere (or did some math wrong) for the number of raw iron ore. If it is not at 100% (meaning it will also have built up resources in its internal buffer), that means there is certainly an issue in the line somewhere

[wind spade]

what recipe have the constructors?

[dire forge]

iron plates

[dire forge]

Alright thanks, will try this

[wind spade]

where do the constructors go? are they full or empty?

[dire forge]

Just into storage containers for now, not finished yet, storage containers nor constructors are full though

Does it take some time for the efficiency to update, I haven't changed anything but it seems to being going up a bit on both constructors, they are close to balanced now

[proud totem]

Yeah somewhat. It is calculated by a few different things, but time is absolutely a factor

You can "reset" it 100% by turning the machine off and on

[amber umbra]

The efficiency percent takes minutes (?) to fully stabilize.

[broken kiln]

i imagine (with no proof whatsoever) that it's calculated over the previous minute of runtime

[proud totem]

Though this (in my experience) will for a short time show like 98% efficiency until it stabalizes

[dire forge]

Just checked again, they are both 100% now, I guess I was just too impatient, thanks for the help anyway though, I understand it better now so that should be helpful going forward

[cerulean stratus]

so far the nerding of making logic systems is going pretty well

[weary parrot]

Hi o/
I'm trying to make a 'no waste oil factory' from this layout : https://www.satisfactorytips.com/guides/no-waste-oil-factory
After crunching some number and using the formulas
I came up with this :
But, I'm questionning my sanity, it say I only need 2.4 blender for Fuel, but I have like 400*2 residual fuel from oil ?
a blender is consuming 50/min

Am i missing something ?

[terse stone]

Visualizing Recipe and Item relationships, using HMF as an example.
-First level: HMF outputs and associated recipe inputs.
-Second level: recipes of those inputs
-Third level: recipes of inputs of inputs

Visualizing EVERY recipe and item relationship in the game

[wind spade]

yeah a few people have tried this... pretty much impossible 🙂

[proud totem]

We just need hyper-dimensional graphs, duh 😂

[rotund sleet]

that's my main bus

[proud totem]

I feel like something is definitely off. For 600 crude oil making diluted fuel, recycled things, etc. the number of machines as a whole I think would be way more. Or for the given output, a lot less crude oil being used

Which may be what is happening. You may be creating those products, but not using close to 600 oil

[weary parrot]

imma double check the formula. might missed something

[heavy gust]

diluted fuel and recycling loop

you can turn 300 oil into like 800 total plastic/rubber

[terse stone]

I'll be using this directed graph network to evaluate all permutations of producing an item in order to choose the best production plan against goals like minimizing power consumption, reducing use of valued resources, etc.

Have people already investigated this kind of optimization?

[proud totem]

Using diluted fuel and recycled rubber/plastic, you can get all that for 80 crude oil:

[weary parrot]

🤦‍♂️ ok I forgot the /5 into the crude oil thingy

this make prob more sense

[turbid sapphire]

Currently making 15 HMF a minute, trying to figure out how much of it I should turn into fused. Also trying to figure out how many heatsinks and cooling systems I should make as I'm going to combine it into a single factory. Open to any input!

[heavy gust]

no need to do coke at all, just make more fuel

[proud totem]

greeny's calculator uses a linear program solver to do this, at least in terms of maximizing output/minimizing input. Don't know if it considers power usage at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could make a LP that does work with power

[proud totem]

Yeah, I just went with what his outputs were

[heavy gust]

ah sure

[weary parrot]

need some coke to make other stuff

120 is enough, i was trying to move the rubber / platic numbers to get to 600 oil/min

[wind spade]

yeah I did.

You end up in realm of 10^200 of possibilities, good luck going through all of that

[weary parrot]

anyway thanks 🙏

[terse stone]

@wind spade how does your linear program solver work? I started with a Tree graph working down branches but complicated Oil Processing recipes and loops made me look to Directed Graphs

[wind spade]

linear optimisation is a field of mathematics, you make variables, constraints and define optimisation target function, then internally it uses a matrix that is (with some math I'm too uneducated to talk about) solved to a state where the optimal solution is found

[terse stone]

That's cool, are you an author of one of the online production planner tools?

[wind spade]

SatisfactoryTools

[proud totem]

That calls into an external LP solver API though right?

Because I guess if you want to go beyond greeny's already amazing tool, you could learn how to structure LPs yourself and solve them using the same API

[wind spade]

well the "external API" is still what I made 🙂

[proud totem]

You made your own LP solver? Sweet!

[wind spade]

and yeah, for the actual LP solving it uses existing library

because only a madman would write that by hand

[proud totem]

Oh, yeah that's moreso what I meant 😂

[wind spade]

and I'm (very slowly) working on a new one anyway

[proud totem]

I remember my professor always telling us to never bet our implementations against CPLEX since it is quite difficult to build one

[weary parrot]

thinking of greeny we have the "I want to make that much of this item"
Is it possible to make a solver, and you say, I have this in input, how much can I make ?
Is that even possible ?

[wind spade]

Tools can do that

[proud totem]

Yeah, there's a maximize a specific output option right?

[wind spade]

there's maximise mode

however I wouldn't recommend using it (or rather, if you use it, copy the final output amount and use it for items/min mode)

[proud totem]

How does maximize work with multiple outputs? Like, does it try to balance the two together? Or is it a direct sum of the two?

[wind spade]

it makes equal amount of both

so once one product is capped, they all stop

[proud totem]

Okay, so just an additional constraint then, then just maximize one of them

[terse stone]

Awesome work! Love the way your tool handles loops in Oil Processing recipes. If I get a prototype of my idea to a point worth showing mind taking a look at my production optimizer approach?

[wind spade]

oh also - if you want to talk more in detail or technical or whatever, my DMs are open (assuming it's something that probably shouldn't pollute this chat)

and there was a thread where I explained more in detail how the linear solver works, if you're interested I can find it

[weary parrot]

I just realise I was using the tools wrong 😂

[vapid gorge]

there's been more than one thing busted from that pages - I wouldn't use anything from it

[wind spade]

there's no "wrong" way of using Tools 🤔

[wind spade]

#1048004440914927628 message

[wind spade]

I'm a bit sad it ended like that but hey I don't manage content there so 🤷

[weary parrot]

oh man really ?

[vapid gorge]

that stuff got obsolete? yeah people have ot keep payingattention

[weary parrot]

madge

back to number

[fringe pawn]

That's a problem of all EA games. Outdated information.

[wind spade]

no I mean that I made the website for TX and it seems it's abandoned now

[vapid gorge]

yup
In general though I wouldn't trust full step by step tutorials, especially from youtube. Sometimes they're explained poorly, sometimes the person is just bad and wrong.

[vapid gorge]

oh had no idea you were even partially involved with it

[fringe pawn]

I wouldn't fully trust any guides that are clearly dated before September 10th of this year.

[wind spade]

mostly just coding, like 95%, a bit help from people from his community

and hosting obv

[vapid gorge]

well many years into a game not surprising a lot have dropped it

[grand jasper]

soo i have no like my AI servers set up but they arent really producing yet. do i have to inject dark matter to start it?

[pastel obsidian]

yes

[grand jasper]

about how much?

[magic island]

just enough to get the encoder recipes running to kickstart the loop

[grand jasper]

ok ill hand feed it then