math-and-meta

[brisk smelt]

edit: 2.22 item/min

[haughty badge]

wtf is that

[brisk smelt]

a 1/27 splitter to deliver fuel rods to drones

one drone nees like 1 fuel rod every 5 hours of operation anyways

[copper seal]

so even with significant lag its not happening for me q_q

[brisk smelt]

putting a full 60 item/min belt is too much radiation lol

[copper seal]

even after i restarted the game nothing happened

[patent blaze]

You’re a chad plutonium drone gamer

[brisk smelt]

yep

[patent blaze]

Love it

[brisk smelt]

red dots all across the map, beautiful

[patent blaze]

Spontaneous death in case you forget your filters

[brisk smelt]

hahah

very spicyyy

16.67 hours/rod 😭

[patent blaze]

Lol wtf

Why only 25mw

[prisma kraken]

that's what drone ports continuously use

plug it in and there goes 25 mw

[patent blaze]

Oooh i thought it was put into the drones themselves

[prisma kraken]

nope, what's taken out of your power grid

use a lot of drones, make sure you have plenty of power 🙂

i'm not complaining, but they are pretty expensive considering you need at least 2, lol

[spare jolt]

legit some european railways here asså

[prisma kraken]

wdym?

[patent blaze]

Swede spotted

[spare jolt]

it's always funny to me how long cables on power towers look from afar

[prisma kraken]

default station names?

[spare jolt]

no it's not stations, just power towers and cables

[prisma kraken]

meh, ok

[spare jolt]

though default station names are funny too

when i saw Krasnoyarsk as a name, i wanted to leave it and use it

not because it's the funny name, but because it's funny to see russian name in a game with english as a main language

[unborn dome]

Is there a tricky way to jury-rig a priority merger?

Like "take stuff from this input if you can, and only then take it from the other input if you can't"?

[tidal dock]

for belt? I think you can do with belt speed.

[unborn dome]

Yeah for belt

[prisma kraken]

a lower speed belt takes priority normally, so you could split one side up into a bunch of slow belts and merge the pieces, idk?

i'm trying to think of a way

[tidal dock]

you can also split the less priority one into the more priority belt.

[unborn dome]

Yeah it's tricky. This is the recycled rubber/plastic loop thing again, and I want to prioritize the residual rubber coming in over the rubber coming out of the recycled rubber refineries.

Maybe it'd be easier to just let them merge naturally and have a smart splitter after the merger to dump the overflow as the main rubber output?

[tidal dock]

ah, I just finish that one. you can just put a smart splitter at the end to to send out the excces out of the loop.

[amber jacinth]

Or dedicate certain machines to recycling and the rest to output

[unborn ermine]

Thats what I did, merged all the lines then split that into my feeding belts, overflow off to where it needed to go.

[noble goblet]

serendipity - I tried using trucks to ship packaged oil to my main bus, and then was able to take the empty canisters and upgrade my solid biomass burners to biofuel burners and spin down coal generators. Probably get to spin them up again soon to burn coke

[vapid gorge]

you're trying to manage recycled plastic and rubber?

[unborn dome]

Yes but mainly just merging the recycled rubber with the primary rubber injection from the residual rubber earlier in the process.

[vapid gorge]

the answer to that one is 'don't'

make residual rubber from the resin first

then use that to make recycled plastic.
At that point you design the layout so that you wind up with your final desired output

much simpler

[unborn dome]

Yeah that's what I'm doing, the residual rubber is already set up and being sunk atm. Mainly just trying to figure out how to merge the recycled rubber and residual rubber into one belt to send back into the recycled plastic refineries, while still being able to extract the factory output from that same system.

[vapid gorge]

why are you merging them on the same belt?

[unborn dome]

Because they both need to go into the recycled plastic refineries

[vapid gorge]

make 2 different groups

[unborn dome]

I thiiiink I have something that'll work? I have to pipe up the fuel before I can test it.

[vapid gorge]

you never ever need to merge them

[unborn dome]

The recycled plastic needs more rubber than I'm making of the residual rubber though, so the recycled rubber needs to loop back around to meet with the residual rubber.

The ratios all work out, just need to figure out the belting

[vapid gorge]

but you ... don't need to merge them even then

[unborn dome]

I'm only making 80 residual rubber/min but I need to feed the recycled plastic with 213.333 rubber/min

[vapid gorge]

resin to Res rub, to rec plastic, to rec rub again until you have your 'starter batch'

and you don't even need to do that really, except you seem set on a specific starter number

[unborn dome]

Because I've already built the starter number, which is being fed by earlier stuff in this process.

[spare jolt]

if you don't mind not making it work the most efficient way possible, you can try using just recycled recipes, they make nice even loops and simplify the math a lot

like, half refineries of output go into all refineries of input, the other half is your surplus

[unborn dome]

I'm doing the recycled loop, yeah. It looks like you're not feeding yours with starter rubber from residual rubber though?

That's interesting, I guess you'd have to toss in a stack of something to prime it? Making cloth instead... hmm

[spare jolt]

you just need a tiny bit to kickstart it and let it spin up

[stiff rune]

im to tired to end this thing

[unborn dome]

That's a lot of resin to sink haha

[spare jolt]

yea, you prime it up and it work indefinitely. in theory, at least

[spare jolt]

you can refine it as well if you want, i just don't wanna bother

[tidal dock]

this is what I just finished.

[unborn dome]

Nice, that's approximately what I'm doing, just with equal ratios of fuel/plastic/rubber, and I probably should've done petrocoke but didn't, and I'm gonna need it for aluminum...

I suppose if I can find a spot to squeeze it in, I could just overclock one of my heavy oil residue refineries and one of the oil pumps.

[tidal dock]

going to setup last half of the factory, probably won't finish untill weekend. goal is to make stuff need for recycle uranium waste.

[tidal dock]

more is better, maybe 😉

[velvet ferry]

how much power do you guys think one might be looking at to finish the game?

[vapid gorge]

depends how big you go.

if you're modest you could make do with 20gw pretty easily

[velvet ferry]

yea i suppose your right its pretty variable

[vapid gorge]

if you need more than 40gw or so I highly recommend going nuclear though

[velvet ferry]

my turbo plant is looking to be 60gw

then im thinking of going rocket fuel slooped benders

blenders*

[vapid gorge]

eh.. pls go nuclear fields of fuel gens are super awkward and honestly ugo imo

they made gens use more fuel per gen specifically to help people avoid fields of gens. Now they're just going rocket fuel

[velvet ferry]

haha

i mean i already have 240 fuel gens

whats another 240 more

[pure crow]

Convenient they made it so I can just pack my fuel gens with power shards, too

So many fuel gens...

[velvet ferry]

i might skip rocket fuel and go nuclear just for the experience of building a nuke plant

[vapid gorge]

you know how many nuclear plants you need for 60gw? like 9

[velvet ferry]

damn thats crazy

[unborn dome]

I'm leaning towards specifically not making rocket fuel, just to have the experience of doing nuclear

[velvet ferry]

^^

[vapid gorge]

and remember, if you do go nuclear you don't have to burn the rods where you make them, easy to drone

[pulsar notch]

I dislike the spicy rocks, I'll stick to rocket fuel

[spare jolt]

it's their problem for making rocket fuel so simple to set up 🚬

[velvet ferry]

it is pretty simple and the numbers are good

just alot of machines

[unborn dome]

Yeah it actually needs a nerf imo

[velvet ferry]

i saw the numbers after you overclock and sloop rocket fuel blenders and im like omg

thats crazy

[spare jolt]

agreed, but I'm not sure if they're ok with potential wacking of the existing setups. they could've afforded that if the game was still in EA, but maybe not now

[unborn dome]

Yeah, kind of an oversight imo

[fringe pawn]

Fuel gens are fine up to 250GW IMO. Now that you can easily fit 4 in an MK2 blueprint, overclocked.

[unborn dome]

You can actually fit 5

[pulsar notch]

I think nuclear mainly needs a way to stop being dangerous. Doesn't really matter the power output.

[fringe pawn]

Dangerous?

[unborn dome]

Mind you, that's a mk3 BP, but I made it into quarter segments and just stick the fifth gen in the middle once built

[ember fractal]

Rocket fuel is like the simplest thing ever if you have the nitro blender recipe. You can even OC and sloop it for fun and profit

It kinda stands out as the meta power production atm

[pulsar notch]

Yeah, being around uranium kills you or burns up suit filters. I'd really rather not deal with that

Especially if my plant crashes and forces me to spend a long time troubleshooting it

[velvet ferry]

was rocket fuel new to 1.0?

[spare jolt]

yea, as well as ion fuel

though some say ion is kinda expensive and should be produced in small amounts for a jetpack

[velvet ferry]

thats what ive read

[spare jolt]

can't confirm myself though, didnt get to it yet

[velvet ferry]

looks alot more complex for ionized

like a huge step

[unborn dome]

Avoiding tech spoilers, but it's very expensive

The tech spoiler -> ||Ionized fuel requires synthetic power shards to make||

[spare jolt]

probably because of how simple RF is. you just take some existing TF and slap a bit of N2 gas, water and iron plates on it

and voila, 7.5 consumption is now 4.16667

[velvet ferry]

yea and that spot in the blue crator lakes, has all of that right in a central location

[spare jolt]

there's one in swamp as well, but it's on an elevation though

[velvet ferry]

it was a no brainer, but i think like someone said earlier i dont know if id want to build such a large plant if i needed more than acouple hundred gw's

[hollow plank]

yeah but its too easy, nuclear is fun cuz of the challenge, also rocket fuel eats away at your oil which you need for plastic and rubber, while nuclear eats away at uranium, which only has one purpose, nuclear power

[vapid gorge]

have a dimentional depot have filters fed into it. you're invincible

[unborn dome]

Do filters get automatically withdrawn from the DD? I know ammo doesn't.

[hollow plank]

idk but if you get low its pretty easy to just restock

[unborn dome]

Oh yeah, for sure. I was just hoping it'd auto-DD-pull them

[pulsar notch]

Nope, doesn't autopull

[velvet ferry]

oil is suprisingly plentiful though

[spare jolt]

tbh there's so much oil on the map that you can basically ignore that in a normal playthrough. unless you're one of those minmaxing all the nodes (cough Kibitz cough)

[vapid gorge]

no, but a whole stack goes a long ways, just gotta click

[tidal dock]

sometime, I feel like this 100% is a lie

[unborn dome]

(I'm not at nuclear yet)

[velvet ferry]

right now i feel like there is more oil on the map than ill ever know what to do with, with the diluted fuel and recycled rubber/plastic recipes

[fringe pawn]

I've actually realized the way satisfactory handles radiation makes more sense in the context of the small number of employees sent to the planet. It's a smaller expenditure of resources to do radiation shielding for the small number of employees, versus radiation shielding on every structure you build.

[vapid gorge]

there's more of everything on the map than you can reasonably use

[velvet ferry]

fair enough

[vapid gorge]

especially if you use the more efficient resource recipes

[velvet ferry]

except bauxite

never enough bauxite

[vapid gorge]

resource efficient alts are pretty much just there to reduce needing to import stuff

?? 12000 ingots is more than enough

[unborn dome]

Irl though, a suit isn't going to protect you against gamma radiation

[pulsar notch]

I guess so, but if we have space elevators and other just about magic tech, can we please have a tech that lets me stop worrying about stay times?

[velvet ferry]

has anyone speed run the game yet?

like i wonder whats the fastest time to finish the elevator

[spare jolt]

isn't it ~2 hrs with the duplication glitch?

[fringe pawn]

FutureTech 👍

[spare jolt]

irl holographic gun isn't going to build gigantic factories with just one button either :P

[unborn dome]

When you sushibelt your plastic and rubber and then realize you need an 800/min belt and only have a 780/min belt... 😳

(Probably going to just have the sushi go out both ends to divide it in half)

[velvet ferry]

ohh thats right i saw that video

[unborn dome]

It would be really great if the programmable splitters could let you configure all four belt ports. Just to make them more distinct from the smart splitter. Two inputs, two outputs would be amazing.

[timid ember]

@vapid gorge

inputs and outputs are looped, headlift is also fine (lower pumps sit at roughly 40m, upper pumps are nowhere near max)

but somehow the left side in the first screenshot is still getting less fuel than the right side, even though both come from the exact same production chain

it's also just one generator that is sometimes not getting fuel and then only for like 4 seconds...

[vapid gorge]

are you cannisters flooded? usually it's simpler to do 1:1 in front of the refinery and do a small loop

[timid ember]

cannisters were pre-filled, belts are all moving and no packagers are backed-up

[vapid gorge]

are your generators actually starving? I don't seen yellow lights

[timid ember]

will probably do the setup in front of the refinery next time though, never thought of that lol

[timid ember]

one gen is starving every full power graph cycle for like 2 graph updates

currently pre-filling the setup again and checking if that helps

starving gen is the one in the lower left corner, second from the left third from the bottom

[vapid gorge]

ok so you're kinda bottom feeding the input of the pipe loop and it's not the most stable loop option

I'd try it like that with a pump right before the entrance of hte manifold

[timid ember]

okay, re-filling looks like it has helped a bit, will let it run for a while to make sure. If that doesn't help i'll try out the pump idea. Might also have to throw in some flow rate compensators to combat the sloshing a bit, it's quite bad

looking promising so far though

ah nope, pipe is already half empty again...

[timid ember]

okay, so you want the pump right at the manifold entrance. So at the point where the pipe comes up through the floor right (image 4)?

[vapid gorge]

after the floor

about there

[timid ember]

yeah okay, put one there (kinda akward as it creates a super small pipe segment, but thats the only way it fits in at that point)

[vapid gorge]

I really suggest reworking the loop like in the image though.

if you're going to keep this kind of loop at least re arange the pipe from below so you have more space for hte pump

that's a lot of jank there

and while yes what you do have there is a loop it may not be a very stable sort as what we're seeing is starvation

did you double check the fuel producers? they should be clogged right?

[timid ember]

kinda considering reworking the whole fuel part of the factory lol. Moving the packagers in front of the refineries, re-doing the pipe loops for the generators and so on

[timid ember]

not clogged, but one or two will sometimes sit on a cycle of fuel before it gets drained. Not enough to stop production, but enough to not fuel all gens completely

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's a clog. any stutter in their production

I'm of the opinion that it's fine to have a less than 100% efficient fuel set up early on. Most people have a bit of a broken first big fuel set up

Learn from it and use what you learned on the next fluid set up

[timid ember]

right now it's stable though, will do some more testing tomorrow (past 3am here)

[timid ember]

ohh, this is the 3rd try xD

the first two had so much bigger issues, in the first one i belted the packagers wrong and all canisters ended up at the same group of packagers. Second was better but not aligned to world grid because i forgot

[vapid gorge]

fair enough! pipes aren't that bad, there's just more and less stable ways of doing things and if you pay attention and ask around a bit it's easy enough

imo avoid the world grid, all it does is restrict your design choices and forces your buildings to be all at 90 degree angles

[timid ember]

yeah, normally pipes aren't that hard for me either. All production chains so far run on max 600/min pipes and its fine, just the gen fueling is getting me for whatever reason 😂

[vapid gorge]

managing height changes is a thing, plus the more machines on a single manifold seems to make it less stable

[timid ember]

yeah, i was also considering just splitting the fuel loops into 2 300/m loops in MK2 pipes

but not sure if that would help at all apart from reducing manifold size and giving me more room to compensate for sloshing in the flow rate

gens are still stable though, even if some pipes are sloshing from basically empty to full constantly

also kinda curious why one loop is working perfectly fine and the other one is not

probably just luck

[pastel obsidian]

There is a bug with junctions at the moment it might be that but who knows

[timid ember]

what bug?

[pastel obsidian]

I think it's something to do with junctions that you snap onto pipes

[timid ember]

then it shouldn't be an issue with the gen manifold (maybe the production pipes below). Gen junctions are all placed on the ground, all production junctions are snapped on though

anyways, imma do some more testing tomorrow, for now its fixed though. So thanks a lot!

[pastel obsidian]

From what I have seen junctions that you place onto a pipe have slightly different properties to junctions you place and connect pipes. Most of the time it doesn't cause any issues but sometimes it can, it impacts pumps and the hated valve.

Take care and ping me with the update

[timid ember]

will do, cya!

[vapid gorge]

snapping junctions to pipes can jsut allow for really tiny pipe segments to exist which can do weird flow, it's best to always rebuild pipes if you snap a junction on them

[torn shoal]

What's ya'll's go-to method of dealing with water byproduct?

[vapid gorge]

feed it into refineries that only use it

[torn shoal]

just spent an hour figuring out how to make 420 canisters/min

[vapid gorge]

blue line is fresh, red is waste

that's 780 bauxite pm

[torn shoal]

i bet i can make that work

[vapid gorge]

all you have to do is figure out the ratio and clock things right. It's the more reliable and robust way to manage waste produce

and you can do something similar for all the waste cycles in the game

dark matter residue is a bit of a outlier as I think depending on the recipes you use and production goals you can wind up with more residue than you use, but then you can just make crystals with it and sink it

[unborn dome]

Do pipe junctions have to have mk2 at all connections to work at 600/min? I seem to have having flowrate issues well below 600. Main line is mk2, but refinery is being fed with a mk1 because it only needs 45/min.

[torn shoal]

Is the mk2 the pipe having flow issues?

[unborn dome]

No, it's not peaking at 600

I'm getting spikes into the 400-500, then it drops back then to much lower, then back up, etc

Almost flat, so it's not a headlift thing

Maybe 5-6m at most

And yet, the ones on the right aren't getting fuel

And on the other end, I've got blenders making diluted fuel that aren't hitting 100% because they keep getting blocked up

[torn shoal]

you could try a pump, see if it changes anything

each of the refineries are 45pm?

[unborn dome]

Yeah suddenly it's just close to solid 500-600 min adding a pump lol, whyy lol, it reports a headlift of only 3.2m

Thanks for the tip. I'm really confused why it was necessary though.

[torn shoal]

np, fluid dynamics are weird in this game lol

[violet halo]

I set up a VIP for the process, so the recycled gets used first. Then set the extractors to only provide what's left.

[unborn dome]

12 refineries, each 30-45 fuel/min (some are overclocked). Should work out to exactly 400 fuel/min required. Diluted fuel blenders are making 640/min.

[pastel obsidian]

VIP is amazing

[unborn dome]

Yeah, now all the refineries have maxed out fuel. Really confusing why a pump was needed when headlift was negligible.

[pastel obsidian]

Some people have PTSD when you mention recycling

[pastel obsidian]

My best guess would be pumps provide pressure that push liquids to a low pressure area but who knows

[violet halo]

Anything anywhere close to 10m, becomes iffy for export out of a machine.

[torn shoal]

Maybe the drop down into the refinery causes a dip in the pressure

[pastel obsidian]

We need a fix it slide deck on how fluids work

[unborn dome]

Could be it's preventing sloshing back down towards the blenders, even though they can provide 10m of headlift?

Like I'm right above the blenders in this pic

[violet halo]

I have all of my pipes set at 3 or 4 stackers high, then drop the fluid in.

The pipe that directly connects to the refinery, has an easier time if the pipe can hold at least one use worth.

[unborn dome]

It'd be handy if pipes had an efficiency % when you open their UI. See if you're shoving too much through them

[violet halo]

I imagine it also minimally helps with performance, because the math on the pipe only has to be done once.

[torn shoal]

What do you guys mean by VIP?

[violet halo]

I forget the acronym, but if you set up a pipe in a certain way, it uses the fluid from the lower pipe first.

[torn shoal]

There a reference for that design?

[vapid gorge]

how would a pipe know how efficient it is?

[unborn ermine]

page 16
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[vapid gorge]

it's a less reliable option to keeping fresh and waste seperate

[violet halo]

#screenshots message

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

Not sure on the accuracy of everything in there, but the VIP seems to work.

[unborn dome]

I guess like it's max capacity vs how much it's getting through it on average.

[vapid gorge]

the max capacity is always either 300 or 600, and it shows the flow averaging it every few seconds. The real way to test the flow of a system is 'are my machines working properly' . Just look at the lights

[unborn dome]

Yeah I guess what I want is for the flow to be averaged over a longer period of time.

[unborn ermine]

well since headlift is after a pipe is filled, maybe its volume filled and flow rate in some sort of combo %

[unborn dome]

Because it spiking up and down constantly depending on whether a machine just instantly slurped a chunk of pipe for its next cycle makes it hard to judge

I guess what would really help is if machines consumed fluid at a constant rate over the course of a cycle

[vapid gorge]

I don't think that would help either unless it's moving at absolutely max capacity as your snap shots will keep changing

like if you need it to be exactly 568 pm you'll always be plus minus

just faster and more accurate to look at your machines after you flood the system

are they starting to starve?
no? flow is good
yes? flow is bad

[unborn dome]

Yeah, I mean none of the recycled plastic/rubber refineries are shutting off now, so I guess it's good. Still really miffed that the pump is needed, like I'm glad it works, but y tho lol

[vapid gorge]

depends on the whole layout.
sometimes a pump is helpful to keep directionality

also the longer the manifold with more machines on it the more points of instability

[unborn dome]

Wonder if that means a valve would fix it the same way?

[vapid gorge]

sometimes it needs a little push

[vapid gorge]

unlikely, it doesn't stop back flow

[pastel obsidian]

Cobalt hates valves

[unborn dome]

Valves are supposed to stop backflow, aren't they?

[vapid gorge]

valves have the issue that if the system isn't fully flooded it only lets X% of the flow through

[pastel obsidian]

They do but not in they way you think they do

[vapid gorge]

they stop specific units of fluid from crossing back, they don't stop those units of fluid from knocking other fluid backwards

[unborn dome]

Oh weird. That sounds unintentional. So a pump does completely prevent backflow?

[vapid gorge]

pumps, afaik through all the testing, do not allow knock back

[unborn dome]

Huh neat

Also sidenote, mk2 pumps are >>>> mk1 pumps just on appearance. I use them even when I don't need 50m of headlift lol

[vapid gorge]

that's a hard question to solidly answer.

Yes. Unless your piping is truly a mess? but then is the pump allowing itself to be completely clogged up or is the layout the culprit? I'd say the layout

I imagine you'd still get back flow behind a pump if everythign in front of the pump is at a standstill

but that'd be less the fluid in front knocking it backwards and more that the fluid behind the pump hits a wall

[vapid gorge]

see, I like the industrial look of mk1s xD

I wish mk2s were mk1s but with pumps on both sides. Like an old style roadster car engine

[unborn dome]

I think I'd like the mk1s better if the pumpy things stuck out at the same angle the power connector is at

Like this is mostly symmetrical-looking if you put two side-by-side

[vapid gorge]

boo the image on the wiki doesn't show the power node on the image

[vapid gorge]

and I don't hate them, there's just no real benefit to using them and a lot of issues that can come up with them. The few times where they possibly have a use, they're always far more finicky to set up and there's always ways that are far far more reliable.
What I hate is people just spreading around false info to people. Cause I then see those people and fix their pipes.

[astral warren]

Yeah after finding out about the weird precision they have with values I only ever use them to prevent back flow at 600/min flow rate now

[vapid gorge]

They however don’t prevent backflow

[astral warren]

Huh, I thought they did

Same as powered pumps no?

[vapid gorge]

powered pumps do, valves do no

with valves water can hit the front of the valve and knock teh water behind the valve backwards.

and since all we care about is flow in systems, not specific units of fluid, that's the main issue

if you ever want to keep directionality? powered pumps are a much safer bet. If you're using a valve that way chances are you didn't need it.
There's a few niche systmes people have made that use a valve and a buffer for waste water but they are very fiddly and not super reliable

[astral warren]

🫡

[prisma kraken]

i think there's a few other uses in shaping the flow of uneven manifolds, but such things are special case at best

i still feel that the buildable should just be removed from the game to prevent confusion

i.e. we've all had the experience of unlocking pipes for the first time and think they work as described only to find that they don't work as we thought

[fringe pawn]

I thought valves were begrudgingly added because otherwise people were using unpowered pumps to achieve part of the effect?

[prisma kraken]

i think they may have been added at the same time with update 3.5

i gotta say, they're really sort of a redheaded stepchild in the game

[astral warren]

Didn’t know you could have expressions in the valve textboxes lol

Wonder if there’s any reason to even use them in that case

[leaden cosmos]

probably to enter an equation like you would the search bar

[vapid gorge]

even then - they only allow PART of what they are set to based on how full the pipe is, which is an issue, and should they be in perfect situations like that? the flow is controled by the machines consumption that you clock however you like.

[leaden cosmos]

Where they can be nice is limited overflow,
e.g. on a 600/m pipe, you can loose 50/min without issues to other chains, so you valve 50/min

so if you say had a buffer before your fuel packager, it would not steal everything

[vapid gorge]

once it's full it wouldn't either? and you can just have a hump in the pipe as an over flow

which would in fact prioritize the machines

zero needs for a valve

And having a buffer in line with a manifold, even with a valve, can create flow issues .

One of the reasons to have buffers nowhere near a manifold

[leaden cosmos]

(personally I have 0 valves in my 1.0 save, :D)

[toxic hemlock]

What's the most efficient way to sloop SAM? Doubling the Reanimated SAM?

[leaden cosmos]

your after same for trigons right?

[toxic hemlock]

Ya

Huh, Converters have 2 sloop slots, not 4

so it doesn't really matter if you put the sloops in the converters or the constructors

[leaden cosmos]

yeah, pretty sure most sloop efficient by doubling the constructors

[toxic hemlock]

(obviously you can do both)

jk

[leaden cosmos]

ficite ingot is next best

[toxic hemlock]

I checked my math by doubling the SAM to account for the sloops

[leaden cosmos]

trigon is pain 😄

[toxic hemlock]

which threw it off

[elder frost]

anyone down for double checking some ratios?
5 RF @ 100%
10 TBF @ (2/3)%
5 HOR @ 100% or (10@50%)
1 DF @100%
2 HOR @ 62.5%

[outer vale]

why not just toss it all into a planner like Tools to see what you get

[elder frost]

it spits out how many machines you need for X end product but that doesnt translate well into ratioed cells for mass production

at least not as far as i can see

like I know I need 40 total blenders for rocket fuel, and 53.333 TBF blenders

8 DF Blenders
60 HOR refineries
10 Petro Coke Refineries etc

but for ease of building sub cells to make fluids not a beast,

5:10:10:1:2 under clocked seems to make more sense

[vapid gorge]

ratioed cells?

if it says you need X parts per min down a path and your belts can do Y parts per min you know you need X/Y belts at least tand you go from there if you want to adjust it

of course it doesn't break it down into groups as there's an infinite number of combinations

use a planner to 'check your numbers' and then break it down into groups as needed

[blissful epoch]

your cells are like a subsystem are they not? just take the expected production of one such cell, and plop that in the manager, then build it 6 times, or whatever

[elder frost]

so the production for Rocket fuel,
1 RF blender to 2 TBF Blenders being supplied by 1 (or 2@ 50%) refineries, make nice little subsets and are a nice clean ratio, no need to mix long fluid chains.

5 of those cells, supplied by one diluted fuel blender, being supplied 2 HOR at 62.5%

fluids sub sets, belts systems i could care less about, those dont have weird issues with back flow and too many splits or merges being weird.

[velvet venture]

Hi, need help with those damn trains again. Made a single line train for 3 stations and a 4th one for the factory. I did get it running but for some reason it dosent run anymore by itself after adding a few more freight platforms. 1 or 2 stops then says station unreachable. As for stations directions I did <A <B <C D> which was running previously

Set it again to be <A <B <C <D, still dosent work.

Can anyone help?

[deft lichen]

Open a #1038092680493801533 thread with screenshots of each station

[fringe seal]

is the timetable A-B-C-D?

[velvet venture]

yeah timetable A-B-C-D
Its stuck at A

super annoyed, it was running just fine with 3 fewer platforms. and it can be manually driven so no track issues

[fringe seal]

if it is a single line, try <A B> C> D>

no idea why <A <B <C D> worked before, but it works when it is DCBA

[deft lichen]

That would work if the timetable was DCBA

[velvet venture]

Okay I have it at <A <B <C D>
I think I got it to work with A-D-C-B timetable

[fringe seal]

that'd work yea

[velvet venture]

Do the first two need to be opposite and rest as is?

[fringe seal]

the rule is that a train can only enter the station from the back

[blissful epoch]

is this a single rail line?

[velvet venture]

yes

[fringe seal]

but it can leave from the back (*if the train is double headed) or the front

[velvet venture]

ah, interesting. Thank for the tip mate.

[blissful epoch]

sure you dont want a double line for more trains? its quite the distance

[velvet venture]

first train so kept it simple, might redo it later down the line. It picks up 7 resources. For the most part its fine but had to add 4 extra stations for similar resources to compensate for the single rail

[fringe seal]

this seems pretty comfy
it can eat one 600 HOR line completely when at 2.5x
the rest of the oil I plan to send straight to coker

also when @ 2.5x the turbofuel is exactly 42/min

which sets me up for Turbo Diamonds

[velvet venture]

nope, stuck at B. Why tf dosent it go to A

[fringe seal]

the train is double headed I assume

[velvet venture]

yes, in opposite directions

[fringe seal]

why tf indeed, I admit I have no idea
the only thing I can think of is some sort of rail connection bug but it went from A to D, it ought to be connected

[fringe seal]

and I assume you did not use blueprints anywhere while building the rails

[velvet venture]

no, only platform base and support bases were blueprinted. Rails and platforms were manually made

[velvet venture]

it super weird I had it running last night with a table somewhat like this

added 4 stations to all 4 stops in the same directions. Gets stuck randomly now in either A or B

[fringe seal]

you are not powering the stations manually, right

if the rails are connected the station will power via rail even if you are not connecting cables to it

[velvet venture]

yeah checked all the stations, they do have power. This is station B where its stuck at

(Station A is toward the left and C is toward the right)

[velvet venture]

and this is the rear of station B

[fringe seal]

I admit that I have no idea

it should work yet

[velvet venture]

retrying again with this, rebuilt the train, docked it at A and ready to go

Works finally smh

idk why. I feel like a software engineer.

[velvet venture]

facing a small issue here. From machine A and Surplus storage B, have 2 conveyor outputs of the same resource going to machine C. I want it to pull from machine A first and then if it needs more it would pull from surplus B.

How would I set it up?

Cuz machine A is a refinery so dont wanna get it clogged up

[wind spade]

set two machines C, one that exactly eats what A makes, one that handles excess from B

[modest burrow]

here, i've been trying to figure out what the train pathfinder's tie-breaking criterion is, assuming that floating point imprecision isn't causing identical paths to have different lengths. it doesn't seem to be random, trains always take the same path between two paths of apparent identical distance; my best guess so far is that it takes the first path that was built

[brisk smelt]

must be FP then

[timid ember]

Update: The pump has created a pipe segment so small dismantling the pump crashes the game, bruh

[brisk smelt]

scim to the rescue!

[timid ember]

might be able to dismantle it if i remove the pipe piece first

and its the ags test save anyways

[oblique hollow]

First come first served. The game can always find a train that came "first"

Or do you mean the A* criterion for which path they set?

I assumed you meant "which one goes first at an intersection"

[pastel obsidian]

dont forget to report it

[timid ember]

looks like i fixed it now though, added a second loop above the first that injects fuel at the "ends" of the manifold loop. Input pipe is now always at 600m³/min. Will monitor the packagers a bit to see if they clog up again, thanks again for the help

[timid ember]

will do, already send the crashreport as well. Will keep a backup of the save as well

[modest burrow]

this: i have several paths with the exact same distance (not accounting for floating point imprecision) because i'm building on a square grid, and i'm trying to figure out what the tie-breaker is, which is possibly an implementation detail.

[oblique hollow]

How can they be identical

[modest burrow]

of course, that's assuming there's an explicit one: if the dijkstra / a* underneath just returns the first path it finds, then it's down to implementation details / memory layout

[oblique hollow]

That i dont know

We have no insight into the code implementation

[modest burrow]

yeah, i've been trying to figure it out with test cases like this, but i am not convinced i have the answer.

[brisk smelt]

probably a quirk of the path-finding algorithm and world coordinate system

[oblique hollow]

I assume rail build order doesnt affect it?

[pastel obsidian]

i'm sure the game has an internal stack that decided what gets executed first, it might be based on location or an ID number that was assigned when placed.

[modest burrow]

the reason i'm asking is: since i'm building a square grid, there'll be times when there will be several "identical" paths: knowing ahead of time which path will be selected means i can predict where the congestion will be and plan my stations accordingly ^^'

[pastel obsidian]

like a game of GO it is impossible to know the state of trains at any time in the network

as trains load and unload you will never have the same state twice as the network grows

[ember fractal]

What's your opinion on OC supercomputer recipe? I kinda like it, because you can sloop it for twice less sloops than the other recipes.

Also the yield per machine is larger

Although, you don't really need that many supercomputers. They're mostly used for building.

[brisk smelt]

SSC always the goat :D

but yeah assembler recipe is nice for slooping

[ember fractal]

Superstate looks the least attractive to me. It needs batteries and control rods

I don't have any incentive to make batteries for anything else. And control rods are mainly for nuclear, which would be a dedicated chain.

[brisk smelt]

it maximizes the production iirc, which is all that is important to me

[unborn dome]

I know it varies by travel time, but is there any sort of average rule-of-thumb for how much throughput I could expect from each train car? LIke 100/min per car or something like that?

Let's say over a quarter-map trip

Also is locomotive+4 cars the meta? 3 cars?

[oblique hollow]

Check the wiki freight car page

!wikisearch freight+car

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=freight+car

[oblique hollow]

If your train arrives before your freight platform is 50% full, its usually full throughput.

You cannot run 2 full belts per platform, but 1.5 should work

[scenic cloud]

3 stacks/min per car is the "you don't have to think about this, it'll just work" bar IME

[sonic lion]

Yeah thats about what i go for

[scenic cloud]

if you need more, then you want to actually start doing math

[sonic lion]

On the higher throughput lines, ive put large storage containers in/out of the station so that the flow of items doesnt stop while the train is loading/unloading

[unborn dome]

Which level of full belt are we talking about here?

[oblique hollow]

Any belt you hook up to it

[scenic cloud]

belt level is usually a worse bottleneck than trip time in trains

I would ISC every station, it's basically free and ensures a steady flow of resources

[oblique hollow]

Whatever you do, the freight platform cannot support 2 full belts (of any mk) of throughput.
But if you use mk 6, then its like 1800/min best case which is a lot of lower tier belts

The reason for that is 27 seconds of docking time

[unborn dome]

Oh is there something about the platform that means it can't accept two full belts at a time? Like even a mk1?

[oblique hollow]

during which you get no flow of items

[sonic lion]

its because of the docking time

youre not getting any throughput while docked

[unborn dome]

Ahh ok

[scenic cloud]

yea, the animation is basically picking up the entire contents of the freight car and placing them into the station all at once, rather than at a steady rate. While this process is ongoing, no belts can extract, since the items "aren't there yet".

of course vice versa for loading

[unborn dome]

So would two full belts be possible if there's an ISC before the platform with both belts running through it?

[scenic cloud]

no, no matter what, you lose 27 seconds of transfer time every trip.

[oblique hollow]

The buffer just reduces your losses

[scenic cloud]

the ISC will slowly empty

[unborn dome]

Ah ok

[scenic cloud]

the buffer is there so that you still get your < 2 full belts demand met during the 27 seconds without relying on belts alone as buffers

[oblique hollow]

The wiki has math for this of course

But from what i remember, 1.5 belt is about as much of a rule of thumb as i could hand out for this

So instead of like 2400/min for 2 x mk 6, its 1800/min

[unborn dome]

Ah nice. I'm only going to be dealing with 480/min of plastic and rubber each, so it sounds like I can probably get away with a single freight car for each.

[scenic cloud]

yea, that should be fine unless the route is egregiously long

[unborn dome]

It's just going for the northern coast to the titan forest. Might be a bit of a winding route, but it's not going across the map or anything.

[oblique hollow]

Just hook the 1 mk 4 belt up to an ISC and the connect both belts between station and ISC

[unborn dome]

Oh that's a good idea - to make sure the ISC empties into the station quickly.

[oblique hollow]

and vice versa

[edgy leaf]

I'd recommend doing the math, it's a lot more reliable and rather easy

[oblique hollow]

Its a rule of thumb.
If you wanna do the math then like i said theres the wiki page

[brisk smelt]

transport the oil and produce there preferably, oil to end product is a 1/3 decompression ratio

edit: actually never mind 480 is not that much, run 2 cars on a loco and you should be fine

[unborn dome]

Haha yeah too late, I already built a huge oil rig on the northern coast

[warm blade]

Would you like water like this in game ? https://matthias-research.github.io/pages/tenMinutePhysics/18-flip.html
Vote now ! https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/670c8ee7ddb9d97e071ff742

[deft lichen]

the existing semi-realistic fluids system is not fun, making it more realistic won't make it fun

I think they should simplify the system in favor of fun akin to Factorio

[unborn dome]

Iirc Factorio used to even simulate static pressure, so you needed pumps every so often just to keep things flowing on flat ground.

[sonic lion]

what would you like to see in a simpler fluid system

i havent played factorio so idk how it works there

[unborn dome]

But yeah, removing the slosh simulation and making machines produce/consume at a regular rate rather than in batch chunks would be handy.

[sonic lion]

slosh sucks

i just spam pumps, idk how else to really solve it

[unborn dome]

Yeah I had to add a pump that only reports three meters of headlift just to make my diluted fuel->recycled plastic/rubber system work, otherwise refineries at the end of the manifold were starving. Makes no sense at all.

[sonic lion]

do pumps work on gasses? it feels like they do, but i dont have any actual evidence

[unborn dome]

Gases don't have headlift, so I'm not sure

[wind spade]

would be weird

[unborn dome]

Like, diluted fuel still makes 100 fuel/min, but it'd be added to the pipe system at 1.667/second rather than 10 every 6 seconds.

[warm blade]

I'm mentioning also hotfix rename stuff (at least dont call pump a pump) and add a buffer with bottom In/out solves a lot in current system
If my example give them some help or insights then maybe they look to be great at optimizing (looking at how much they are able to represent on a screen)
maybe they can simulate 3D volume and create transparent pipes - for like 20 tickets in MAM as punishment for skill issues 😄
GPU vector units can simulate this stuff crazy good (maybe complicates Dedicated server stuff) if you have good base. They can make molecules bigger and other programming Tricks (SIMD) , DOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IroPQ150F6c

other examples of optimizing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U16RnpV48KQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvSXBorw4A

[unborn dome]

Would make the pipes less surge-y.

[wind spade]

would need like 95% of production-related code to be redone

[sonic lion]

does anyone know what the delta speed is for trains to derail vs halt?

[unborn dome]

Anyone have a preferred alt for canisters? 30 plastic/min seems like a bit much. Maybe Coated?

[sonic lion]

iron and copper one is pretty good

its faster than the steel one, although steel one is simpler to make

[spare jolt]

do you need so many canisters? if you pack it for transport an personal use, 30 plastic is not a lot. if you need to transport packaged fluid - just make a big batch and loop it to reuse it

[unborn dome]

It's mostly just for jetpack, maybe drones at first once I unlock them, and also thinking maybe 30/min (or 60?) eventually for the fused modular frame alt recipe.

[sonic lion]

id make this temporary because ionized fuel uses aluminum cans, and thats kinda the end goal wiith fuel

[magic island]

the main thing I want to package are oil products, at the site where I am producing them, so I find the default plastic simply easier because it doesn't involve shipping in any metals

[unborn dome]

Would the batch loop involve a train with a car dedicated to empty canisters?

[sonic lion]

i like to have half the train for full and half for empty so i essentially cant run out

[unborn dome]

Yeah that's what I'd be doing, siphoning off some of my plastic to package the fuel made at the same place. Maybe I'd just underclock the canister constructor.

[spare jolt]

if you pack it on the spot - yes, you'll need 2 cars. if you decide to transport liquid (why would you do that?) - one is enough

[unborn dome]

I might transport the fuel as liquid just because I can, and trains with tank cars mixed in look cool 😅

In which case I'd only need the canisters for jetpack and maybe vehicles until I get a better fuel.

[spare jolt]

like package and load to car 1 - deliver - unpackage and load to car 2 - return

[magic island]

although Residual Plastic is a worse yield than Residual Rubber, it's handy in a pinch for getting fuel canisters in clean numbers with minimal steps

[spare jolt]

though if you're working with simply fuel (the orange one) - if you need to burn it, do it on the spot, if you need to deliver it - make it so you don't have to reuse the canisters, like burning it in drones and tractors

[torn shoal]

I'm having train troubles

[spare jolt]

this also eliminates the need to reuse canisters

[torn shoal]

Im trying to accomplish this without collisions

I thought it'd be as simple as blocks, but its notwokring

[sonic lion]

signals should work perfectly for that

whats your signal layout? maybe youre missing a bidirectional block

[torn shoal]

This is the first time I've had more than one train, so im brand new to signals

i just put a block at the front and back of station a

[sonic lion]

I can see the train going from bottom right to D and then trying to go back to the bottom right

at minumum you need one more block than you have trains

[torn shoal]

i forgot to illustrate, this all moves clockwise

[sonic lion]

ok

so my first thought is the merging of the rail to D.

a train may come from the bottom left corner into d, and then try to exit back to the bottom left corner

[torn shoal]

so far that hasnt happened

[sonic lion]

if that rail is one direction, then the train will say signaling error

are the trains not moving at all?

waiting at signals that are occupied?

[torn shoal]

without any signals, it moved like it should

[magic island]

I think this would be the bare minimum needed?

[torn shoal]

but the crash is inevitable

[sonic lion]

whats the direction of the signals?

[torn shoal]

lemme draw

[sonic lion]

np

[magic island]

the section with Station A is the only place collisions would happen

so a basic solution is to make that into one block; Train 1 will not enter the shared track if Train 2 is using Station A, and vice versa

(to be more efficient, you can then chop it into sub-blocks so the trains can proceed further in before they have to stop and wait)

[torn shoal]

the two bottom corners switch direction according to the timetable of the passing train

[sonic lion]

Ok heres my idea: More blocks is (almost) always better, it keeps the trains moving

[torn shoal]

er i guess the bottom left corner

[sonic lion]

its especially important to put signals at the beginning and end of train stations

Make sure that any signals on that bidirectional rail have block signals on both sides of the rail

[magic island]

oh, do the trains enter the station from opposite directions?

that does add complexity and does basically mean you have to make that entire bottom rail its own block

[torn shoal]

They dont

[magic island]

oh, I'm not sure what you mean by switching direction

just as in, an ordinary junction?

[torn shoal]

yeah

[sonic lion]

id at least add signals there

[torn shoal]

red lines are blocks?

[sonic lion]

signals

[magic island]

I added arrows to clarify

[torn shoal]

I'll try this real quick

[sonic lion]

theres not much reason to be conservative with block signals

the bigger a block, the less trains that can be on it

[torn shoal]

well, laziness is a reason

[sonic lion]

so true

[torn shoal]

just not a good one

[sonic lion]

for that one bidirectional rail, it needs to be its own block. Having a train staring contest is not a fun block to clear

[magic island]

It's only a concern if more than one train uses station D

[torn shoal]

yeah

only one train uses station D

[pulsar lagoon]

Hi

[sonic lion]

hello

[pulsar lagoon]

i have a problem with train a rails, can someone help me

[sonic lion]

sure

[pulsar lagoon]

is there a voice chat here?

[sonic lion]

i cant vc (definitely not in class rn or anything what are you talking about)

[pulsar lagoon]

ok

but is there any vc? so i can join

[sonic lion]

no

[unborn dome]

IIrc they used to have a voice chat here, but it was really hard to moderate and people were being rude, so it's gone.

[pulsar lagoon]

can you help me with my problem?

[humble flare]

Is that ok ?

[unborn dome]

Sorry, I haven't done trains yet in my game

[pulsar lagoon]

i am tired of this

[sonic lion]

if it fits what you need, then its good

[humble flare]

ok thanks

[sonic lion]

whats your layout look like?

[pulsar lagoon]

thats why i want vc

[sonic lion]

ah

[pulsar lagoon]

will be imposible without sharing screen

[unborn dome]

Can you draw it like was done here?

[pulsar lagoon]

the sad part is really simple and i am trying to learn how this works but you cant do anything

[sonic lion]

if you can draw it, that works otherwise there isnt much i can do

[pulsar lagoon]

what is this?

i dont understand this game, was so nice until this point

[sonic lion]

theres no signal that a train entering that block can use to leave

[pulsar lagoon]

what xd

[sonic lion]

id put a signal on the other side of the track too

[sonic lion]

a train can enter, but it cant leave

signals are only one way

[pulsar lagoon]

ohhh, so

what i do

[sonic lion]

add a signal on the other side of that rail

[pulsar lagoon]

wich side?

[sonic lion]

hold on lemme open paint

[pulsar lagoon]

or we could do a vc

you dont need to talkd

[sonic lion]

so your rail is bidirectional meaning you want trains to go both directions on the rail

so you need your signals to support that

the red lines should have a signal on both sides of the rail

nvm actually all signals should do that

[pulsar lagoon]

so....

[sonic lion]

signals point in one direction, so put one on both sides of the rail for both directions

[pulsar lagoon]

what, i dont get it

[unborn dome]

Just like in real life, train signals only shine a light in one direction. You need to add a second signal in the same place on the rail, but facing the other way to the existing signal.

[sonic lion]

yeah

[pulsar lagoon]

i have no idea how trains works neither in real life

[sonic lion]

sorry im busy i cant call if i wanted

[pulsar lagoon]

i will try this

[sonic lion]

look up a video about this

[pulsar lagoon]

no problem, but vc is easy just share screen

[sonic lion]

there are plenty and theres probably one that makes sense

[unborn dome]

You have something like this. A train coming from the opposite direction can't see the lights we see in this photo, unless there's a signal facing away from us too.

[pulsar lagoon]

now this happen

[sonic lion]

you have different entry signals

[pulsar lagoon]

train move but stop again

[sonic lion]

you have some path singals and some block signals pointing into the smae block

[wind spade]

open the signal and read what error it gives

[pulsar lagoon]

why this happen?

[unborn dome]

Did you add signals on both sides of every signal you have? Even beyond this intersection you've shown us? If you're doing bidirectional rails, you're going to need bidirection signals in every place.

[prisma kraken]

this may or may not help you... now & then when i'm building rails in configurations that should work, the signals just get stuck in a weird state and i need to delete a bunch of rail & rebuild/resignal it to get the signal states to reset. I suspect that you probably have some of that going on, but probably more what your problem is that you are doing things like crossing bidirectional tracks over themselves

[pulsar lagoon]

i did

[unborn dome]

Not train stations, signals. Every block signal needs to face in both directions.

[unborn dome]

Again, I haven't done this in my game yet, but this is my understanding of how they work. I'm not planning on doing bidirectional trains though, just going to make two rails, one for each direction.

[prisma kraken]

which is much simpler to reason about

bidirectional tracks are very difficult to wrap your head around even in very simple topologies

[pulsar lagoon]

the train stuff is so anoying

[unborn dome]

Bidirectional is much harder than single-directional

[prisma kraken]

there's truly a reason why most real-life railways go with unidirectional tracks

[pulsar lagoon]

i have no more warning blocks signals but the trains still dont move

[prisma kraken]

sometimes you have to hop in them and drive them manually a bit before re-enabling autopilot to kick them into moving

idk why that is, but it happens

[brisk smelt]

PLEASE stop using bi-di. esp on your first playthrough, it needs to be absolutely perfect for them to not shit themselves

[pulsar lagoon]

is anoying as hell

[brisk smelt]

what part of it is annoying

[pulsar lagoon]

everything xd

[brisk smelt]

its pretty simple, take your main line, branch off 2 rails into a station manifold and loop em back around

path signals wherever two trains may occupy a junction simultaneously

block signals otherwise

[pulsar lagoon]

can you do vc?

[brisk smelt]

not rn

send a diagram or photo wherever it is broken and ill fix it thou

[pulsar lagoon]

why people is afraid of doing vc you dont even need to talk

[pulsar lagoon]

really hard with just pictures

[brisk smelt]

im not home rn, can't vc very easily

[wind spade]

why are people afraid of sharing pictures

[plush gulch]

Sometimes people aren't on their PCs, so they can't voicechat

[teal wadi]

its weird and dumb (though looks cool in action), but a "shuffle balancer" like this would technically work, right?
in a situation where either the output demand is unknown or variable, any input can reach any output, and if any output backs up the corresponding input will just overflow into another line?

[wind spade]

there's no situation in Satisfactory where input or output is variable

[teal wadi]

there is when I put temporary/unfinished factories up that may or may not be using everything on an input line

[copper seal]

so what is actually a sane and reasonable amount of Phase 4 elevator parts to make per minute?

[teal wadi]

or rather, say in that example i removed the middle output - the other 4 would still get an even balance

[copper seal]

Assembly Director System / Magnetic Field Generator / Thermal Propulsion Rocket / Nuclear Pasta?

need 500/500/250/100 of each... for now

[wind spade]

in that case just build for the permanent state and ignore unfinished state

[copper seal]

i thought maybe 5/5/2.5/1 might be reasonable but... 4600 copper per minute is daunting xd

[plush gulch]

Make 2,5 and upgrade your power generation during those 200min

[copper seal]

2.5/2.5/2.5/2.5?

[plush gulch]

Half your number

[raven saddle]

I’m only planning on making 1/min of each whenever i get around to it, you don’t need a lot and having it trickle in will get you there eventually

[velvet venture]

is this valve done correctly? the machines on the right produce 400 wastewater, the machines on the left need water and are also connected to my main water supply.

I just want the valve to not allow back fill left to right.

[fringe seal]

this intrigues me tbh

I would have never thought to build something like this but it's creative problem solving imo

though I don't think the throughput is great in the worst case possible

i.e. all but one inputs off, and all outputs off except the farthest output from the input

[proud totem]

Which will I likely need more of in the long run, plastic or rubber? I am planning a large oil refinery, and am wondering if I should prioritize one or the other?

[spare jolt]

have you decided on what alt recipes you want to prioritize? that's your answer. if you didn't - maybe consider making equal amounts of both?

[amber umbra]

Really depends on the alts you use.

[proud totem]

That's been my main point of contention. I'm not nearly as familiar with the alts for later game items than I am for the midgame, but it seems that on a whole the base recipes at least use more plastic

[spare jolt]

caterium alts often use rubber afair

[proud totem]

Checks out from the few that I know

So perhaps equal would be best then

[spare jolt]

i usually go with equal amounts

the overflow will go into sink anyway

the underflow will just receive one more factory

[proud totem]

Sounds good

[amber jacinth]

Plastic is used pretty regularly throughout the tiers, rubber isn’t used much at first (except in alts), but comes more into play later on

Equal amounts of both is honestly the best way to go

[unborn ermine]

yeah start with a mix then oversupply what you feel is best for your alt choices.

I knew I wanted rubber earlier on so my first loop was 700 rubber/200 plastic.

[velvet ferry]

I think plastic and rubber usage equals out as you get further down the line

[thorn trellis]

dont use valves

[copper seal]

so 2.5/2.5/1.25/0.5?

[latent anchor]

valves for wastewater are fine, (seeing as you want it to be able to drain without being blocked) but if you want to achieve 600/min flow without spending ages and having many headaches you also need to create a height difference after the valve (and add a pump if necessary too). The height difference, made by simply putting one pipe that goes a few foundations/walls upwards and another one connecting it back down to the ground, allows the wastewater to more easily flow elsewhere.

[copper seal]

but can't you just reuse the waste water?

[violet halo]

A wastewater return line is how I use it as well. To stop the main line from line from filling up the return line.

[latent anchor]

yeah, you can reuse the waste water by plugging it back into the main supply.

can result in issues, but most of them crop up from having too much water flowing in from pumps or otherwise

[copper seal]

i mean it seems to work for fuel

[vapid gorge]

there is a chance it could work. Direct feeding waste water with a valve is the least reliable option

[copper seal]

i have to start doing aluminium production myself soon so yea..

whats a good spot for that?

i was thinking of the ones near the oil on the west coast

[vapid gorge]

this is not accurate - valves for waste water is like juggling plates instead of carrying them

[latent anchor]

generally you want to be near bauxite, which tends to be in the middle segment of the map (in between north and south)

[copper seal]

i can then have it piggyback on my trainline that im already using for plastic and rubber

and i already built a bunch of stuff on the water there anyways

[latent anchor]

I use valves for wastewater simply so that there is a spot in my waste lines that remains empty. The height difference and pump sorts out any throughput issues

[copper seal]

i was thinking the 2 bauxite nodes here

[vapid gorge]

yes but these are highly unreliable set ups that are prone to failing unless you follow a very particular shape and layout.

things people, when people suggest valves, don't show examples that dcan be copied exactly

[copper seal]

i can get the geotherms while im there too

[vapid gorge]

which is why 'fuck valves' and the people who suggest them because then I see a bunch of people with broken pipes since all was suggested was 'use valves'

[spare jolt]

you mean returning it to the same refineries? this will work but only if your refineries never ever stop. the moment one stops - pipes may get flooded with water and you'll have to manually drain it

[copper seal]

how is that a bad thing?

[latent anchor]

Valves are not the be-all end-all solution. I've found they mess up stuff almost anywhere I put them except wastewater. Which is why I use them there

[spare jolt]

much safer is to make a bunch of refineries working solely on waste water and a bunch of them working on extracted water

[copper seal]

i mean with crude and fuel you flood your pipes anyways =|

[wind spade]

valves are not a solution 😛

valves are a problem. Removing them is a solution

[violet halo]

They can be a solution, but I'll give you that they are 'more' of a problem than a solution.

[latent anchor]

you can get by perfectly fine without valves, I just feel more satisfied if my wastewater removal has a spot that remains empty for more to flow in

[violet halo]

That's the only thing I use it for as well.

[vapid gorge]

except by habit you probably have an extremely specific layout where the direct feed works.
a pump is a more reliable solution at that poitn but not much better

my main issue is people say 'use a valve' w/o also going 'this exact set up works' with a diagram and images

because if you don't do that you need to also add

'also this is like 50/50 it'll break and you could spend half an hour pointlesslly trying to make it work'

[plush gulch]

Yeah

[spare jolt]

say you have an alumina to scrap refinery, which makes waste water. it makes the maximum amount of scrap and waits to be emptied, thus stopping to produce water. meanwhile the extractor keeps working, filling your pipes, and by the moment the refinery starts working again - it can't output wwater because the pipes are full

[vapid gorge]

you have no idea how many people show up with broken systems cause someone said 'just use a valve/buffer, it'll be fiiiiine'

[copper seal]

thanks, guess ill have to start working towards that stuff q_q

[copper seal]

ah yea i guess, how do people get rid of the waste water then? just using it in a different process like diluted fuel or something?

[spare jolt]

as I just said - one section of refineries works only on extracted water, the other part - only on waste water

[vapid gorge]

no, just use it in a dedicated part of the refinery system
blue line is fresh
red is waste

unbreakable and reliabe

[spare jolt]

^

[copper seal]

that doesnt answer my question tho

how do you then get rid of the waste water

[latent anchor]

this is why specifically wastewater is what I use valves for. Anywhere else it creates far more problems than it can solve, but wastewater is simple enough with simple enough requirements (just don't let a machine fill up) that a valve can be used. Not completely necessary, but it can improve some setups

[vapid gorge]

we just showed you an image with the example

[copper seal]

if the problem is the pipe filling up so it can't continue producing

[wind spade]

you recycle it back

[latent anchor]

depends on the process, but basically make sure that the amount flowing in from pumps + the amount being made by machines = the water you're using

[violet halo]

It let me make a base wide return line for waste water, instead of each set up having a different one.

[latent anchor]

in other words, plug it back into the water supply

[vapid gorge]

except its simple for you because you build in a specific way. I help people every day with this sort of thing, including broken waste valve set ups they've done

there's this jack ass who made a video recently espousing this damned valve buffer system for that that keep failing for people

[vapid gorge]

the pipes here will never back up
becaues it never mixes with the fresh water

[copper seal]

ah so you guys just use a mk2 pipe with 150m3 water (or whatever the number is) and under/overclock it?

[latent anchor]

I honestly do not know what other way people build wastewater systems that is similar enough to mine to have my thoughts applied but different enough for it to break.

[copper seal]

oh no i see it

[vapid gorge]

it depends on the ratio? just need to clock the groiups right 🙂 in that example I ahve each solution refinery feeding 1 scrap refinery

[latent anchor]

I don't recommend messing about too hard with valves but if you add one to a system and it works, it works

if you're having trouble, remove it

[violet halo]

People use it for a lot of things that don't work, other than waste water.

[vapid gorge]

I mean sure but if you're going to suggest direct valve feeding, which is possible but needs to be set up specifically, pls give them an image and layout of how you do it cause it's very easy for them to fail. And tell them to follow it.

it's like setting up a VIP junction, there are other ways than the image in pipe manual but it's super easy to fuck up if you don't copy an existing and tested sample

[copper seal]

whatever i don't get it

[violet halo]

I'm at the end of phase 4, and have used all of 1 valve.

[spare jolt]

again, 2 choices, taking alumina as an example:

1. you place a bunch of alumina refineries - make them feed on extracted water - you route the alumina solution to scrap refineries - these refineries produce scrap and waste water - the waste water is being fed into another, separate bunch of refineries.
2. you recycle the water from scrap refineries back into alumina refineries as usual, but all your refineries have to work 100% of the time, otherwise the extractor would fill the pipe and the waste water would not have space to come out

[latent anchor]

is direct valve feeding where you have a valve right before every fluid input in a manifold? Never seen the term before

[vapid gorge]

ok this is both an image of the set up and the top diagram with the numbers are what they are clocked to. What is the issue?

this processes 780 baux pm

[violet halo]

If you have a vip line set up that doesn't backflow, that is not the case. Because as soon as it starts up again, there's room.

[vapid gorge]

direct feeding is what you desribe just slapping the waste pipe into the fresh, usually you want to use a pump and make sure there are NO repeating decimals anywhere near it

[violet halo]

Also, aluminum would be a bad example for me, because I wouldn't ever stop it.

[copper seal]

someone said something stupid and its confusing me

[latent anchor]

prolly me lol

[copper seal]

so im just gonna go away.

[violet halo]

If you did stop it, you are inches from the pipes, and can flush them.

[latent anchor]

imma defend the viewpoint that valves have rare niche uses but the very first step to solving fluid problems is removing your valves

[violet halo]

Agreed

[edgy leaf]

bilbo is right

[unborn ermine]

I was gunna mention, the one guy showing off that weird extractor thing with the backflow. (but I was eating)

(the sloshing thing)

[copper seal]

does the game still run into issues if you carpet bomb the biome?

iirc back in Update 6 or 7 or whatever people generally didn't recommend removing toomany trees etc. because it caused some issues with lag or save size or something like that

[velvet venture]

finally emptying out the storage after building a plutonium rod sink plant

brought a tear to my eye

[snow lake]

idk if this is the right place to ask but why is a hypertube cannon with 12 entrances stronger than one with 13? they are facing opposite directions

[vapid gorge]

initial velocity affects it

[snow lake]

ive used both of them many times in the same way

[vapid gorge]

possibly slightly different layout, spacing ect.

they're exploits so really can't expect strict rules

[snow lake]

thats fair ig

[vapid gorge]

with finicky things like that the order of operations also can matter sometimes. Like which objects you build first in the system. Plus floating point errors in positioning

in theory a blueprinted cannon might be more similar? but there could be effects from being pointed in different directions

[velvet venture]

best way to get rid of wastewater when limestone isnt nearby?

[oblique hollow]

coal generators

[unborn dome]

Are you sure those are tears and not blood

[fickle roost]

Is transporting liquids via the train a good idea?

I am trying to keep everything as centralised as possible

[vapid gorge]

it's fine, you just need to buffer it properly

[prisma kraken]

it works, yeah, is it a good idea, no

[unborn dome]

Liquids yes, gases no, but you have to do it right or it'll be weird

[vapid gorge]

#design-and-architecture message and #design-and-architecture message are reliable fluid buffers, save the images and replicate them exactly

[unborn dome]

Oh those are the ones on the wiki lol

[vapid gorge]

not surprised, Sevrahn did a fair bit of wiki stuff

[fickle roost]

Why do it exactly like that?

Is it so the liquid does not back travel into the trainline liquid storage

[prisma kraken]

to allow pipes to burst faster than 600/min into/out of station and tolerate the train lockout period

[unborn ermine]

unfortunate how some people are great in some ways not so much in others

[unborn dome]

Uh oh lol

[unborn ermine]

Was never a fan of the "vibe checks" and public shaming with the block lists, also the mods thing EVERY convo

[vapid gorge]

yeah essentially there's a lot of little ways that fluid have tricks to them. These iirc use VIP junctions to function?

[vapid gorge]

eh, he was just abrassive, never actually attacked anyone

[fickle roost]

I know about the water tower one but I do find that a bit cheap to use

[prisma kraken]

it isn't that useful, honestly

[vapid gorge]

yeah the pipe manual has a bunch of technical ways to use pipes - imo you don't really need to use almost all of it. It's more about documenting how pipes behave so you can have an idea of what a set up is doing

good to know what to avoid too

[vapid gorge]

but what they were saying about gasses is true, package them. they behave weirdly in buffers and packaged gas is more compact anyway even shipping the containers back

[prisma kraken]

what exactly are the rules for gas in a buffer?

[vapid gorge]

btw @shrewd oar , you were testing gas buffers right? I can't remember did you end up getting it to work smoothly or was there wonk?

[vapid gorge]

possibly just 1 rule of 'don't'

but I can't remember of Ladyhawk got them to work or not

if she did I'd suggest putting it on the wiki

[shrewd oar]

no wonk at all, 600/m steady

[prisma kraken]

i'd imagine they just fill up completely and empty like long pipes

[vapid gorge]

nice! definitely make some clean example set ups for the wiki 🙂

[shrewd oar]

and it's the buffer that requires work, not the gas

they're in uhh... sec

[vapid gorge]

that's been an issue that plagued the game for ages

[glossy ether]

What causes the weirdness? I’m hearing this for the first time, meanwhile my nitrogen train has been supplying my rocket fuel plant with no issues for dozens of hours now.

[shrewd oar]

#1298454344986923039 message that's a working setup at train station

[prisma kraken]

'someone on the net once said...'

[shrewd oar]

and #1298454344986923039 message that's the clean setup blueprint version

[vapid gorge]

I think the theory is that gas tries to equalise all spaces unlike liquids? moving gas by train tends to not get full throughput. Are you oversupplying?

[shrewd oar]

powered pumps don't work on gas lines but powered pumps on a buffer forces buffer to output steady at pipe cap

gas or liquid makes no difference

[vapid gorge]

do you have to have a double buffer?

[shrewd oar]

for a train station 1 small buffer isn't enough to cover the train docking time at 600/m so yeah, you either need 2 small ones or 1 large one

2 small ones just takes up less space than one of those giant blobs so i prefer them

[vapid gorge]

hmm although this one might be a bit confusing, it looks like it serves only 1 train in/output?

[shrewd oar]

you can cut those off

depending on whether you're loading or unloading a train you'll need the 2 pipes on the other side

that serves 1 pipeline at 600/m

but obvs you need 2 pipes from the station side or supply side to refill the buffer during the time the train's not there <<< bad description.. need double station output to refill buffers when train's not there on unload side, need double station input to empty buffers while train's not there on loading side

pumps always face the output side, so station loading pumps face station... station unloading, pumps face away from station

[violet halo]

I don't know if its still a problem, but the game does track what you destroy.

[copper seal]

rip

[unborn dome]

I mean it has to - it needs to keep track of the changes made to the default world state

Otherwise all the trees would respawn every time you loaded a save 🌴

[copper seal]

but whats the issue, just the save file size or lag?

[prisma kraken]

lag while saving 🙂

honestly, a lot of the world state modification is marshalled into the save file asynchronously from the autosave events in 1.0 so it isn't a huge problem, but after a few 100 hrs in the game, the autosave isn't an unnoticeable blip anymore 😄

[copper seal]

ah okay

[velvet venture]

alright for Nuke waste I got 2 sources which go into my drone.
I wanna fly the active waste first then focus on stored waste.

For 2 inputs to 1 output how do I make it so that the active conveyor is first used by the drone and then the storage conveyor

[velvet venture]

welp got it somewhat solved by using a mk1 belt

imagine 4 days of work, just to sink them 🙂

[flint rapids]

How do you usually do Battery Drone Ports? A battery factory with several Ports that sends drones to every other stations, or just 2-3 ports that recieve battery movers from multiple stations each?

[amber umbra]

@flint rapids Afaik the standard way to deliver batteries (fuel of any kind) is to have a battery production line feeding a drone port. That drone port is empty. You then build drone ports with drones at the destination locations that go to the battery production line port. Ala a many-to-one system.

If you need to send batteries to a large amount of locations, you can duplicate that setup as there is an upper limit on amount of drones that can get filled at one port due to docking time and input belt throughput limitations. Reddit has some good posts on the topic.

[brisk smelt]

any suggestions to improve ze junction

efficency-wise

[sand epoch]

Shrink it and use a normal T intersection?

[brisk smelt]

-_-

[edgy leaf]

I don't think there's anything that could be done to improve it

and you probably wouldn't even get bottlenecked by a normal t intersection

[brisk smelt]

this is a pretty high-traffic line that's why

after everything is complete there's probably gonna be 10-15 trains passing through it a min

[edgy leaf]

making multiple directer paths would probably be the only way to improve it, or reducing the amount of trains you need

[vapid gorge]

Make it stacked #screenshots message

[unborn ermine]

Anyone else kinda bummered we cant package dissolved silica?
I was thinking about logistics and it came to mind that it wouldnt be "that bad"

[edgy leaf]

isn't theirs already more efficient?

[edgy leaf]

also I doubt there'll be a train going through that junction every 4 seconds

[vapid gorge]

Not in space and looks! 😄 and you could max out the efficiency on that stacked one easily, just wouldn’t look as good

[vapid gorge]

Need basically the same stuff to make the silica , not sure I could come up with a situation where I’d want to move the fluid

[edgy leaf]

i wonder how a smallabout compares to no crossing junctions in terms of efficiency

[vapid gorge]

Small about?

[edgy leaf]

a small roundabout

[vapid gorge]

If it’s a roundabout afaik it’s the worst efficient

[edgy leaf]

stop trying to make fetch smallabout happen, it's not going to happen

[unborn ermine]

I mean. Its defo more compact, like 900/min fluid = 900/min packaged vs 2025/min silica.

[edgy leaf]

I mean a small one tho specifically, to minimize time in roundabout

[vapid gorge]

That’s not the issue, it’s that all train paths interact

That’s why turbines are the most efficient, they only interact with their specific path

[edgy leaf]

the fact that they interact isn't the only thing that matters. how long they interact also matters

that's why I think a smallabout might be more efficient than a regular t intersection, and it's definitely more efficient than a regular roundabout

[brisk smelt]

what about two-lane rounabouts

[edgy leaf]

tgeres nothing better than your setup in terms of possible trains per minute afaik

unless you're trying to squeeze out a few percent more by having the trains slow down less in the corners, but at that point it's insanity

[brisk smelt]

yeah i suppose

it should be good, now what about in terms of aesthetics

[edgy leaf]

assuming fully loaded trains carrying plastic, 15 trains per minute would equal 96000 items per minute

[edgy leaf]

I personally love stacked rail

[edgy leaf]

which is why I doubt you're going to hit 15 trains per minute

[brisk smelt]

80 belts of throughput 😝

yeah i probably wont, just a lil over future-proofing here hah

[edgy leaf]

yea at that point the only option is alternate routes. shorter alternate routes.

[brisk smelt]

apart from horizontal footprint whats so good about it

[edgy leaf]

and doing the math to make sure you use as few trains as possible

[edgy leaf]

I think it looks cool, the shorter footprint allows it to snake through the world more nicely

I'm sure @vapid gorge has some nice example pics

[vapid gorge]

It’s the biggest part though

[vapid gorge]

Two lame roundabouts are basically just 4 T junctions in a row

[edgy leaf]

but look how small it is!

a train barely spends any time inside

also, not all paths block each other

3 trains can use it at the same time

[vapid gorge]

Imo it’s easier for stacked rail to set up under and over passes for better throughput, easier to snake through tight spots. Those are the main points. It mostly functions like parallel tracks mind you

[vapid gorge]

But they still need to reserve xD you’d have to do throughput tests though

[edgy leaf]

I'm using blocks only

[brisk smelt]

• a main line bypass route would make a lot better imo in terms of throughput

but thats a lot of blocks signals

they won't jam? i get uncomfrutable even looking at that

[vapid gorge]

That’s what turbine junctions are, just lots of slip lanes

[edgy leaf]

eH, im sure it'll be fine

but now that I think about it, maybe I should actually put path signals on there

I'm not good with trains, cobalt is there a way for that smallabout to jam?

[brisk smelt]

except the 4 bypass ducts are merged into one big circle

[edgy leaf]

I guess if a train wants to turn around, but that shouldn't really happen

[vapid gorge]

The one circle bit though suggests there’s a lot of path interaction

Some stacked rail #design-and-architecture message

I did make a prototype Stacked Interchange. Looked pretty cool

Could probably make it more tidy , just was curious what it’d look like

You could sacrifice some throughput and make it much more compact though. A half turbine

[brisk smelt]

also, need some input: 4 platforms can do 6000/min with this setup? running 2 locos per node group

[vapid gorge]

Prooooobably not

Especially if the same platforms are used car the shared station

The more trains stop at a particular station the less throughput the platforms have

[brisk smelt]

i did some great planning and have nowhere to expand my station manifold but up ughhhhhhhhhh

[vapid gorge]

Years ago I did this ?? xD

[brisk smelt]

oh boi

#160628?! thats old hah

[vapid gorge]

I want to say u4?

It never got used in the end, but learned a lot

[unborn dome]

Interesting, single car trains?

[vapid gorge]

Not all, the plan was to move all the raw goods from that spot

I’ve since gained logistics and planning wisdom xD

But still some functional station floors

[brisk smelt]

hmm, we go a) up, b) right, or c) stack them doubly 💀

[unborn dome]

D) Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure

[vapid gorge]

Amy way works really. You can always build the factory above the stations

[brisk smelt]

what i was planning to do

probably going to be 6-7 floors of hell

15 BWD's/min

also planning to bring 1300 plastic and 1650 rubber in via drone, shouldnttt be thaaaaaaaaaat many drones, right...

[unborn dome]

Drones can carry 9 stacks iirc

[unborn ermine]

yep, 9 stacks.

[prisma kraken]

you can probably pull 4-500/min per drone

[toxic hemlock]

Is Nitro Blend Fuel worth it if I A) already have nitric cid production and B) don't currently have a need for compacted coal?

[prisma kraken]

its easy to build. i prefer turboblend+default rf for the better yield, but either one is pretty good™️

as for the compacted coal... there's a number of good uses for that

[unborn ermine]

The real trade off for me is, Oil or Sulphur.

what do you have more of and feel like spending

[prisma kraken]

tbh, i think where it should be utilized is to make turbofuel for diamonds

[toxic hemlock]

What do you mean?

Like, hold onto the compacted coal for diamonds?

That's smart

[prisma kraken]

nitrorocket uses a lot of sulfur and isn't great on coal

[toxic hemlock]

I feel like I have a billion leftover oil

I was tentatively planning to just do oil diamonds

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it can be sunk so punting on its use for a while is ok

i started looking at the diamond recipes last night and realized turbodiamond is a heckuva lot better than the other alternatives

[unborn ermine]

for reference I did the alt heavy recipe for Turbo Blend -> Rocket Fuel
1200/min oil got me 2600/min total RF + a tiny bit of extra base fuel.

[prisma kraken]

i realized i was going to be using a bunch of oil and coal for diamonds one way or another and saw that the turbodiamond recipe is pretty good, for less oil and coal than i'd be using otherwise for a lot of diamonds, it ends up being much smaller of a footprint

[toxic hemlock]

Better by what metric?

I'm pretty sure it's substantially less efficient than just doing oil diamonds

[prisma kraken]

well, ok, how many oil diamonds can you make with 600 oil?

[toxic hemlock]

120

And like, yeah, you can get 2k diamonds out of 600 oil if you use turbo

... but that's also costing you 1k sulfur and 2k coal

[prisma kraken]

i'll let you draw your own conclusion

[toxic hemlock]

24000 cool per minute

[prisma kraken]

yeah, big numbers, that's ballpark what i'm projecting to be needing

[unborn ermine]

Yeah the diamond thing is only really a great idea if its 100% based on your byproduct than straight input imho.

[unborn dome]

I'm just planning out my first train station are three-car trains the usual? Or is it four cars?

[unborn ermine]

Im under the assumption you want to base that on your throughput?

Im not sure myself

[unborn dome]

I'm loading multiple things, but not sure if four is too much

I'd like to do four, for plastic, rubber, fuel, and petrocoke, but maybe four is too many?

[unborn ermine]

I mean, if the track is not pushing the limits for an upwards slope, should be fine.

[analog meteor]

four cars work

[prisma kraken]

i go with 4

you can go up to 5 without needing another engine on inclines. i find 4 to be a better way though - that's more of a 4 being a nice number for splitting & merging more than anything

whatever size you settle on, you're going to be kind of married to it for the rest of the playthrough

any train not that size is going to be problematic in some way, lol

(there's a joke in there somewhere about having an affair & a mistress, but my funny bone is broken)

[bleak ivy]

is there a convenient way to illuminate a large indoor area?

all the light sources ive tried (ceiling lamps, wall lights etc) have really intense point lighting and dont really illuminate big spaces

i dont wanna have to plaster them everywhere

[prisma kraken]

really just the light buildables or billboards mounted on the ceiling

[bleak ivy]

how do you do billboards on ceilings? the build prompt for me is like

[prisma kraken]

hold ctrl

[bleak ivy]

i rebound ctrl to crouch

and C to the functions i saw that used ctrl

but for some reason after doing that i cant find a keybind that works at all for any of the ctrl functions that arent mass dismantle

like the 0.5m nudge doesnt work either

[prisma kraken]

haha

those are pretty new ui changes

[bleak ivy]

i worry ive permanently unbound something internally 😭

[prisma kraken]

have a feeling the game just has some very messy keybinding code and a lot of edge case bugs esp when you do rebinds like that

[bleak ivy]

resetting to defaults fixed it, i can deal, it just annoys me that crouching is C

[prisma kraken]

well, it is also the down button for the hoverpack

you probably want to keep that near wasd

[bleak ivy]

rebinding crouch also rebinds hoverpack down, with the *interesting* side effect that using copy+paste midair makes me descend

[unborn dome]

Yeah this is why I'm being super careful in my initial design, don't want to regret it later 😅

[unborn ermine]

Speaking of trains, im very glad I swapped my planning over to drones for packaged gas, would save me some logistical nightmares.

[prisma kraken]

here's an interesting little comparison

for what matters, default ECR is cheaper with plastic ai limiter

[toxic hemlock]

Do I need to know anything special for a tower of generators using rocket fuel? Ik that gasses behave funny

[unborn ermine]

They should be straight forward

[prisma kraken]

in theory, you should just be able to pipe it however

[unborn ermine]

no pumps needed, loops can be horizontal, and remember to keep the pipes SIMPLE

[prisma kraken]

i haven't really tried pushing gases around through height changes

[unborn ermine]

My setup uses 5 floors for 240 gens

its not too crazy either for piping

[prisma kraken]

mine has 5 floors below the 192 gens, lol

i'm still burning turbofuel though

[unborn ermine]

Ill see if I can get a decent snapshot of the pipes in SCIM

[prisma kraken]

i should probably start working on the conversion for that all soon

[unborn ermine]

Each floor is just a copy paste, and it works. One floor per pipe.

[prisma kraken]

makes sense. i find you get better results in general if you have one level of destination for any pipe

[unborn ermine]

I also forgot how comfy this clockspeed is

[prisma kraken]

my setup for it all is just really basic

[unborn ermine]

Oh I was going to explain this better.
I have to send the nitrogen not just 2 directions but 3, and if I sent them via train, I would have needed pipes to go up that mega cliff arch, defeating the purpose of packing/unpacking.

[plush gulch]

I need help.
I have 2 conveyer belts.
One should always be at max capacity, the other one is supplying the main belt.
I tried a splitter going from 2 to 1. But that resulted in line 1 backing up til the end and into the machines and in general lower throughput and low efficiency.
Priority splitter would be nice. Always taking items from belt 1 and then the remaining items from belt 2.
How can I solve this problem?

[spare jolt]

there's 2 hard drugs i've tried in my life and which I'll consume for life - one is hoverpack, second is dimensional depot.

i've gathered those in a single run w/o returning to base

[deep jacinth]

Are the two belts carrying the same item?