math-and-meta

[prisma kraken]

or for 16 machines, just split them evenly

[bleak ivy]

yeah

[sharp cargo]

Heh, what's ages here? like, 30m? an hour? heat death of the universe?

[prisma kraken]

only takes 4+2+1 splitter

[bleak ivy]

by ages i mean on the order of like hours too

for large manifolds

it varies based on stack size etc.

[sharp cargo]

Alright

Thanks!

[prisma kraken]

yeah, like i'll balance split aluminum scrap into smelters, but for iron or copper i don't care

[sharp cargo]

Any thoughts on directionality? Like, first in, first out, or first in, last out, etc?

doesn't really matter?

[bleak ivy]

wdym

also on the manifold thing earlier - i sometimes like to do “hybrid” setups

ie balancers (e.g. 4 way split) that feed into 4 smaller manifolds

[sharp cargo]

If I have a line of smelters, and I load the ore in left to right, should the outputs pull from them left to right also (FIFO), or the opposite (FILO)

[bleak ivy]

it preserves the simplicity of manifolds but cuts down on fill time

[bleak ivy]

once it’s filled it won’t affect it so it’s really just whichever direction is more convenient for your factory

[prisma kraken]

ahhh, all in all the time for the manifolds to fill ends up being roughly the same, once warmed it makes no difference. if it is a production line that you intend coming up and down a lot, i'd pay some attention to it, but otherwise, once it's running, doesn't matter

[jovial jacinth]

New to game with 1.0, what's the best way to deal with Dark Matter Residue?

guessing just DMCrystals then sink?

[prisma kraken]

its about the only way until you know what you want to make to balance it all out, and even then you kind of want to eat it into crystals for other things (singularity cells)

i think there's only one recipe that takes the gas as input (ficsonium), so unless you're making that, changing it over to crystal is the way

on the wiki is some math on how to mix and match the crystal recipes to get the exact number of crystal you want. i'm not sure it is worth that trouble vs just sinking the crystal, since the crystal is worth some good points

speaking of DMR... literally unplayable

[pure crow]

Well, if you're going for progression, you probably do want a pretty big storage for the crystals but... should probably sink it as overflow anyway anyway just in case it starts overflowing.

[prisma kraken]

also, qp is a helluva good recipe to sloop!

yeah, i built up a cache of an isc's worth of crystal to make the other stuff

to do the t9 game final goals, i just set up a single converter, part collider and encoder in a loop and just hand fed everthing adjusting the recipes and clock speeds as needed and worked from that buffer of dm crystal to cheese it all

i find it a little disappointing that they didn't have some sort of 'i have to build gobs of storage to cheese this' sort of gotcha to it all

[pure crow]

I definitely needed more for crystals and copper powder.

... in hindsight.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, join the club

i'm reserving every copper node from the canyon northward for powder, lol

[civic ibex]

what is the best recipe for fuel ?

[unborn ermine]

Theres a chain tbh.
Basic Fuel? Diluted.

[civic ibex]

basic fuel

[unborn ermine]

But you also want Heavy Oil Residue alt.

[civic ibex]

the most you can produce fuel. but take less crude oil ?

is diluted fuel better ?

[unborn ermine]

Heres an early game chain.

You have this, and then Blenders later which streamlines it a bit but is later.

[civic ibex]

ok. thank you. ill do that then

[prisma kraken]

yeah, crude -> hor is 3:4, hor->dpf is 1:2, so in the end you get 800 fuel from 300 oil along with some resin that you can convert into plastic, rubber or fabric on the side

a small bit of advice: don't build a crazy big basic fuel plant, you'll probably wish to save that effort for turbo or rocket fuel later

also, if you're burning the packaged fuel in generators, it is easier to place the unpackagers in front of pairs of generators than screw around with a long pipe manifold

you may also wish to start making some fuel containers... you'll need a crate or two of them to get the loop saturated

[unborn ermine]

Hmm. so
Im planning a train for nitrogen.
North west corner all the way to the western oil.
For a LONG train like that, which is only going to be 1200/min from the well, I would defo want multiple trains right?
First time dealing with fluid train here

[astral warren]

Imo fluid trains just don't have a big enough capacity to make them worth using

Ideally you'd process the items into a solid or package the liquid before putting it on the train

But if you still want to use fluid carts then yeah you'd probably need multiple trains

Or at the very least one fairly long train

[unborn ermine]

Well If I was going to package/unpack nitrogen, how many canisters you think I would need buffered for a decent loop?

its only going to be 1200/min or 300/min for packages.

[astral warren]

It's probably something you can calculate if you know your train's round trip time, but since I'm lazy I pretty much just add a bunch of canisters in, see if it's enough to sustain a loop, and add more if not lol

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I have to make the tracks first

[astral warren]

For once I actually took packaging into account and made my fairly large aluminum factory also not process some of the ingots to turn them into fluid tanks later

[unborn ermine]

Gunna be along the coast a fair bit, so its at least going to have straightaways

Just a little sad if I do swap to packaging, love it when I get spacings right without thinking.

[astral warren]

Yeah, also not having to worry about the fluid tank loop is nice

I got the Pressure Modulator mod for that reason, imo it makes fluid trains a lot more viable

[prisma kraken]

you should consider packaging the nitro, even with the return trip empties, you still move 2x as much and don't have to wrestle with getting gas out of a train station

keep in mind that nitrogen compresses 4:1, so your transfer rate packaged is only 300/min

as a napkin math calculation, that's approximately an 8 minute round trip window you have

(also, for that sort of rate, you might just want to use drones

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I was thinking about that...

[prisma kraken]

you might also want to use the dune desert nitro, it is probably a bit closer

[unborn ermine]

CLOSER

Im west coast

[unborn ermine]

not even

[prisma kraken]

oh, gold coast oil, its late i misread

[unborn ermine]

The distance here to where im shooting for is around 2440m away

[fathom ice]

is this the max inventory slots ?

[unborn ermine]

I think so yeah, im just missing the last MAM one so 6 less

The hard drive slots are all done pretty early.

confirmed with the wiki 78

[unreal bough]

81 actually

so one more upgrade to fill those last 3 spaces

[prisma kraken]

yeah, those last 3 spots never get filled in

kind of weird, in update 8 and previous, it ended up being a full set of rows, something changed somewhere with the upgrades & unlocks

[bleak ivy]

if you’re having inventory troubles depots are gospel

current pt i’ve been using them instead of a centralised storage and im never going back

[frosty owl]

Speaking of drones, I just had to build 2 ports instead of one because I had to move 600/min and one port said it could only do 598/min

[unborn ermine]

old wiki info

They mention on the proper wiki, wiki.gg, that post 1.0 its 78 now.

[digital eagle]

I'm having some trouble in oil-land. Specifically, I'm using the alternate to produce the polymer resin, which I then turn into rubber and plastics, and the heavy oil I use for dilution and into powerplants. All great in theory. But the resin is giving me a headache with the numbers. It's 130/s and I'm not sure how to balance that. I got 2 full 300m3/s pipes which get fed into resin refineries, and out of those I need at least 2 full 480 belts; anything else I can dump, no problems, but I can't have the thing clock up.
Any suggestions on balancing this?

[fringe seal]

Residual Plastic + Residual Rubber = uses up 100/min resin
so, both at 130% uses it up cleanly

[digital eagle]

Hmm... I wonder how badly that will mess up my water intakes, but that's not a bad idea! 🤔

[fringe seal]

water: it uses 78/min

you can do it in any ratio you want if you are willing to do some basic math

and windows include a calculator app

[digital eagle]

There's a misaligned pixel in there! I hate it! xD

And just like that you now will hate it too! :>

[midnight ibex]

What one or rescan

Ty

[karmic locust]

Whats the latest news on mk6 being bugged ?

how long can it be an issue for 😢

[unborn ermine]

at least december

they arent doing any patches till ficmas

Then if that isnt it? Maaaaaybe 1.1 patch

[deft lichen]

I thought there'll be 1 more patch

[karmic locust]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-waiting-still-waiting-gif-13052487

[deft lichen]

It's frustrating that they jump right to making the next content update instead of continuing to patch bugs

[unborn ermine]

Oh wait yeah we didnt get that yet?
the one from the snutt dev vid?

[deft lichen]

1.0.0.5 with straight pipe mode

The ficsmas patch should be 1.0.1 not 1.1

[unborn ermine]

thats ficmas iirc
straight pipes

[deft lichen]

1.1 will be a major update

[regal nymph]

Hey chat qq
Which do you need more? Rubber or plastic?
In repurposeing my old power plant near the southwest oil field into actual oil products for puters circuit boards ai limiters and the ilk but it seems like rubber is almost useless to have so I was thinking Instead of doing an even split to do a third recycling round to make half the end product ribber into moar plastic

[astral warren]

Hasn't been acknowledged afaik

It's technically resolvable by the user so ig it's not as high priority as other stuff

[astral warren]

Rubber is used in a lot of alts

Whereas plastic is more common in regular recipes

[karmic locust]

is it an issue on dedicated servers only or solo too

[astral warren]

Any machine that has poor enough performance can have it ig

[karmic locust]

hmm

[astral warren]

Generally my SP performance is good enough to avoid it but the moment someone joins me my FPS gets destroyed immediately

[karmic locust]

do by 'resolvable by the user' you mean buy better hardware ? 😂

[astral warren]

Yup xd

I am planning on doing just that

But in the meantime I found that turning down conveyor visual quality settings gives a decent performance bump

[karmic locust]

same but waiting on new amd this month and nvidia in december/january I believe

[astral warren]

My budget isn't crazy so anything releasing rn is probably gonna be out of my price range anyway

[karmic locust]

havent upgraded in 7 years its time for a beefy upgrade lol

[vapid gorge]

entirely depends on the alts you choose. Make a plastic/rubber plant when you need plastic or rubber

[ember fractal]

I found I use more rubber than plastic

[regal nymph]

Noted guess I'll just do an even split

[regal nymph]

Oh right I forgot it's as simple as switching recepies since they use the exact same machines

[true junco]

Prior to 1.0 plastic was used in more buildables, especially ones youll use a lot. Rubber was used in more recipes. Not sure if the balance is the same. But youll definitely need a lot of plastic if you like using "coated concrete" foundations and mk2 pipes.

[copper seal]

I'm using satisfactory calculator but its giving me a whole bunch of 66% or 33% or 50% buildings

now i don't like that

is there an option to turn that off?

it gets better if you allow it to overclock but it'll still be like 230% 240% 233% etc.

or do i just have to manually add up all the clock speeds and just round it up to the next 100%?

[spare jolt]

satisfactory tools? you can't, you'll have to manually calculate the numbers of final produce to get the round numbers

or you can just round it up yourself, say from 3.1 to 4

[copper seal]

ugh

its like... 200 buildings though D:

[quartz violet]

You can just do the math for a few buildings then multiply!

[copper seal]

i dont get what you mean

[quartz violet]

When you say 200 buildings is that a lot of buildings because the parts are really complicated or because you want to make a lot of them

[copper seal]

im trying to make 5 mod engines and 2 ADU's

[quartz violet]

Both 😮

[copper seal]

well im trying to complete phase 3

[quartz violet]

I'd say work through it backwards with just ratios

[astral warren]

@copper seal Are you using Satisfactory Calculator or Satisfactory Tools?

[copper seal]

calc

[astral warren]

Ah, not so familiar with it

I'd recommend Tools for factory planning personally

Calculator is great for its interactive map though

[copper seal]

if satisfactory tools allows me to calculate without underclocking i'll use that lol

[astral warren]

It doesn't per se but it's very easy to handle the clocking

[quartz violet]

Tools is generally more streamlined but still doesn't do that

[copper seal]

i mean

[astral warren]

If the graph says (for example) you need 22.3x constructors, that just means you need 22 constructors and an additional one at 30% clock speed

[copper seal]

im okay with getting the ratios etc.

but im also bad with leaving surplus for my own building

so i thought maybe just rounding up to the nearest 100% would solve that too

[astral warren]

I just do everything with exact values and it hasn't gone wrong so far

[copper seal]

oh wait

lmfao, i can do that on calc

[astral warren]

In Tools, you can hover over whatever machine and it will give you pretty exact values for the clock speeds

[astral warren]

Yeah I figured they have something for it as well, just never used it so couldn't say for sure

[copper seal]

but problem with satisfactory calc is that, if i set it to that simplified mode, i can't tell it my belts

[quartz violet]

You gotta figure out belts yourself on sftools

[copper seal]

welp

[astral warren]

I don't mind that, even as far into the game as I am it's really not very complicated

[copper seal]

ye but then i have to figure out balancing haha

[astral warren]

Manifolds ftw

[copper seal]

i need to feed 35.5 constructors with 532.5 ingots but i only have 480 belts

[astral warren]

So each constructor takes 15 ingots, then

[copper seal]

though ofc i'll build 36 or 37 constructors

[molten saffron]

how many resources would i need to supply a 100 GW rocket fuel power plant (using the nitro alt)?
i can’t figure out how to get there.

[astral warren]

If you fill up a 480 belt you can feed that into 32 constructors precisely

And the remainder of the ingots you can just manifold into the remaining constructors

[quartz violet]

Round up to 36, downclock all of them to 35.5/36*100, then split it out nice and easy
Thats my process

[copper seal]

i dont want to downclock

[molten saffron]

🙏

[astral warren]

Did this in like 20 seconds via math:
532.5 (Ingots)/35.5 (Constructors)=15 (Ingots Per Minute)
480 (Belt Capacity)/15 (Ingots Per Minute)=32 (Constructors To Empty The Belt)

And the rest of the resources can go into the other 3.5 constructors on a separate belt

[copper seal]

ye

[astral warren]

1666.668 rocket fuel/min if my math is right

[quartz violet]

You should probably split it up into smaller chunks if it's one manifold

Unless you can easily auto backfill everything while you work on other stuff

[molten saffron]

wait a minute

[astral warren]

Diluted Fuel

[molten saffron]

if i sloop the blenders, i’ll have enough

[astral warren]

Or that

Diluted Fuel can easily get you there too

[molten saffron]

eh, extra work

[astral warren]

This is maximizing the potential of the 900 oil so prob way overkill for the 100GW you're trying to get, but just as an example

[molten saffron]

yep

that exceeds the resources available in the blue crater

[astral warren]

Yeah you surely won't need that much to make 1666

[molten saffron]

phew

while i’m here, might as well ask: how would i go about distributing the fuel to generators?

i used DSP methods with my turbofuel plant and it does not run well

[astral warren]

DSP?

[copper seal]

Dyson Sphere Project

[molten saffron]

dyson sphere program

[copper seal]

another factory game

[astral warren]

That's what I thought of too but I'm not familiar with it lol

[copper seal]

anyways, now i also gotta figure out a place to put my dimensional storages in

[molten saffron]

it’s similar in some ways, radically different in others

i need to keep to reminding myself i’m not playing DSP anymore

[copper seal]

should i put a smart splitter infront of them and making the main line the overflow? 🤔
that way my dimensional storage is always filled but it will slow down production

idk, just an idea, not sure if its a good one tho 😂

[astral warren]

Anyway, I generally just manifold the fuel into gens on the left and right of the pipes

[molten saffron]

manifold?

[copper seal]

its when you have just 1 line feeding into a bunch of machines and just constantly splitting it off

[molten saffron]

doesn’t that lead to increasing sparsity down the pipe/belt?

[copper seal]

but you have to keep in mind that the machines shouldn't take more out of the line than is provided to it

pipes no

[molten saffron]

interesting

[copper seal]

but with belts yeah, but it will even out eventually, just takes a while

[astral warren]

Yeah, but as long as the consumption of the machines it feeds doesn't exceed the amount flowing through the pipe it'll work fine

[copper seal]

with liquids you should fill all the internal buffers and pipes before turning on the machines anyway

[molten saffron]

there’s the missing link

[astral warren]

I usually don't bother to unless I'm creating a self-sustaining loop that needs external input to be jumpstarted

[copper seal]

you can also skip the warmup of a belt manifold if you fill the internal storage yourself manually too

[astral warren]

It'll just take longer to distribute to all the machines if you don't do it but it should still work

Anyway, here's a diagram I stole off the wiki for manifolding
(S = Splitter, M = Merger. In the case of pipes these would both just be Pipeline Junctions)

[copper seal]

say you're smelting iron right, and you provide 480 iron ore, the first machine will be force fed 240 iron ore cause its on the first splitter, but once its full then all the overflow just goes to the next splitter, and that machine will get the same treatment, all the way down the line until its 100% efficient

480 > 240 > 120 > 60 > 30 > 15 etc.etc.
but eventually the first one will completely fill up so it'll be more like 480 > 450 > 225 > 112.5>
but then the second one will completely fill up too, so it'll be 480 > 450 > 420 > 210 > 105 >

so on so on

cause once they're completely filled the machines will only take what they use

420 > 390
then 390 > 360
then 360 > 330 etc. until the entire thing is balanced and the last machine will get precisely 30 a minute

[astral warren]

jup

[copper seal]

and like i said, you can skip the warmup if you put iron ore into the smelters manually

so you can just let it warm up on its own untill everything becomes 100% efficient or you can jump start it

[astral warren]

If my factory has a buncha different machines I usually just hook one set of them up to warm up on its own and go work on another part of the factory in the meantime

[copper seal]

its just an smelter example but this goes for every system where the combined total of machines are only using as many resources are you're putting onto the belt

because every machine before the last one is getting more resources than they need, and thus will fill up and backlog

[copper seal]

honestly just looks alot cleaner though

balancing can be fun, but its messy

[copper seal]

there are a bunch quirks with liquids though, especially the Mk2 pipes

[astral warren]

Yeah

It's gotten better in 1.0 but there's still a lot of stuff the game doesn't tell you

Thankfully the manual does that xd

[copper seal]

bro its so bad

honestly another thing you can do to prime your manifold is to just turn it on as you're still building

at least, to a certain extent at the lower levels of production

[viral finch]

hey is this a bug? i removed all uranium from this spot but the radiation is still there

[pulsar notch]

Rad hogs under the world maybe?

[amber jacinth]

Try relogging

[viral finch]

i checked but there was nothing under the rock

[viral finch]

oh right ill try that

lol the uranium rocks spawned back

[copper seal]

make a youtube vid about a uranium farming glitch and get billions of views

[viral finch]

handmade uranium 100% efficiency

removed them all again and radiation is gone now, but if they spawn back with each restart guess no point removing them

[copper seal]

maybe it was just glitched

try reloading again, see if it comes back again

[prisma kraken]

sometimes the last changes to world state aren't preserved in a save file, some background thread in the game periodically saves changes to map data so the game doesn't need to calculate it on every autosave, as such, you can make a change, save & reload and oft times it won't have changed

[viral finch]

okay yeah they are gone now, weird thing i noticed before i restarted was it took about a minute to manual save now its back to normal

was just a hiccup then thanks for the help

[amber jacinth]

Ah, that explains why mining deposits and then playing for a while after actually removes them

[steel knot]

Do you find that the combination of fused quickwire and fused wire is worth it? I’m getting that it works out to about 67% more copper wire and 20% more quickwire per input.

Feels like fused quickwire is a win for sure but at the relative scarcity of caterium vs copper maybe not fused wire

[wind spade]

well it mostly depends on what resources you have available near your location

[steel knot]

Yeah. I’m in that copper/iron rich pocket in the northern forest starting area. In that space I have access to a normal caterium.

So I figured there id use fused QW to get some AI limiters easily

[spare jolt]

if you need it for ai limiters only, why bother with fused? why not just set up a quick dirty production and expand it when you really need it, say for fuel gens?

[steel knot]

Hm true

My target for now is 10-20 limiters

[heavy gust]

80 refineries for pure copper ingots

[spare jolt]

in the early game, you only need them for smart splitters, stun rebars and maybe for power switches, you don't need much of quickwire until you get to fuel gens and HS connectors

[steel knot]

yeah i'm on phase 4 and starting to finally get down to the project parts

[prisma kraken]

or 32 OC'd

[heavy gust]

unless you ned limiters in a production chain, one building making them at like 20% is enough

[heavy gust]

gonna have to consider that

donthave shards automated yet though

[prisma kraken]

they grow on trees too

[copper seal]

am i the only one who really really doesn't like stacking belts

[heavy gust]

yes ik, i have like 500

[copper seal]

i don't mind with pipes but belts i'd rather just have nearly next to each other lol

[heavy gust]

but i need a lot for nuclear reactors a bit later

[copper seal]

time to go slug hunting then

[prisma kraken]

i gathered all the map's slugs and that gave ~4000

[copper seal]

i'm in phase 3 and i already have 600

[heavy gust]

got a few unprocessed ones

[spare jolt]

even w/o slooping slugs already provide plenty of shards

[copper seal]

long live slooped purple slugs

[heavy gust]

thats at least another 60 slooped

[copper seal]

?

[heavy gust]

no wait at least 100

[copper seal]

bro, just the purple is 70 slooped

[heavy gust]

70 from purple

wasnt it 5 unslooped

[prisma kraken]

yep

[copper seal]

12 from blues, 54 from yellows

[prisma kraken]

dude, 2x not 4x

[heavy gust]

26 you mean?

[copper seal]

wait

don't slopped yellows give 4?

[heavy gust]

my brain is fried

[prisma kraken]

2, 4, 10 or 1, 2, 5

[copper seal]

4x 13 = 52

[heavy gust]

its 52 yes

sorry im tired

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i mathed wrong

[copper seal]

xd

i mean i accidentally x2'd the purps so it happens

70 + 12 + 52 = 134

i feel sorry for the people who didn't know about sloops before turning their slugs into power shards xd

[heavy gust]

i mean even if you dont

u get a lot

[prisma kraken]

in any event, a 20 minute expedition to someplace like spire coast will get ya a few 100

[spare jolt]

as i said, even w/o slooping you still get a shitton of shards

[copper seal]

i know, you can get like 2k even without sloops, but its alot easier with

[spare jolt]

slooping just doubles this amount and allows you to not automate them for longer

[copper seal]

and unlocking sloop tech isn't even that hard

[prisma kraken]

once you automate them, you'll be giving shards away, lol

[steel knot]

I feel like ever since I learned what sloops did, I sloop everything I do if it’s ad hoc

[heavy gust]

have not yet had a reason to automate since i still got so many left

[copper seal]

i don't have anything to sloop yet

[heavy gust]

but my nuclear build will eat most of them

[prisma kraken]

making them is useful for creating DMR

[copper seal]

i'll probably sloop space elevator parts and maybe stuff i use alot

like mk4 belt stuff

until i have a stash then i'll probably just take it out again lol

[heavy gust]

im slooping most phase 7 and 8 parts

since im too lazy to build bigger factory for them

[copper seal]

i somehow

have a dismantle crate somewhere in my world

[prisma kraken]

i sloop stuff until i have it fully automated

[copper seal]

even though i've never been that far away from my base

[amber jacinth]

Likely at 0, 0, 0 in the world

[copper seal]

which means its... underground?

[amber jacinth]

Yep

[copper seal]

does it go away if i reload?

or do i need to delete it with SCIM?

[amber jacinth]

Need to delete it with SCIM, or clip through terrain to reach it

Via hypertube or something

[haughty badge]

Hello Maths people!

Could somebody work something out for me please? 🙂

I am trying to smelt 600 caterium (45/min) into an even amount of smelters, at the moment it requires 13.3333 without Overclocking. How do I figure out how many smelters I need if I do some overclocking?

[violet halo]

Divide the number of smelters, by the amount you want to overclock. So 13.333 / 2.5 as a reference for maximum overclock.

Leaving you .833 as a remainder, so the last machine doesn't need overclocking.

[haughty badge]

I assume 2.5 in this case would mean 250%?

[violet halo]

Yes, as 250% of one machine is 2.5.

[unborn dome]

So why would I want to make 3.75 turbomotors/minute with the alt recipe? Just to speed up the thermal propulsion rocket objective? Other than that, 1 turbomotor/minute for my own use seems like it's probably perfectly fine? So 2-3/minute total is probably all I'd need.

[haughty badge]

Thanks a lot! 😄 10 smelters oc'd at that % is 600 on the dot!

[tidal dock]

prepping for phase 6 in future?😬

[violet halo]

I have one machines worth of turbo motors for the depot, and the exact amount I need, for the space elevator parts.

[tidal dock]

beside that, sinking Elevator project items is nice way to get coupons.

I bought Golden nuts on the weekend and have like over 600 points again already.

[heavy gust]

why is the pure iron ingot alt so ugly.

Pure Cataerium: 600 ingots 😄
Pure Copper: 2800 ingots 🤩
Pure Iron : 2228.571429

[wind spade]

why do you need it to be 1200

[spare jolt]

Because round numbers are 🤩

[heavy gust]

just doesnt sound good/feel good. why couldnt it have been a round number like all the other pure recepies

thought it was an artifact of 780 being the max belt speed, but there is no belt speed where it makes sense

[wind spade]

round numbers are the same as decimal numbers

[heavy gust]

no, whatever that nubmer is for iron is not a useable fraction of a belt

[wind spade]

given that devs don't set "items per minute" rates, but rather "items per cycle" (and the game doesn't care about items/min), it's not surprising that some recipes just are different/non-integer

[heavy gust]

like 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 and whatever

hm yeah so its just pure chance that the others are round numbers i gues

[spare jolt]

But even heavy flexible frame is the multiple of fraction of 5, which allows for at least some rounding.
While pure iron is like 0.53846153846 of ore:ingot

Was it done on purpose or not, the fact is there - the ratio is crappy

[wind spade]

ratio is 7:13 😛

[heavy gust]

cleary a number thats fun to work with

[wind spade]

I mean 99% of time you just build what the next step needs and clock accordingly

[heavy gust]

sure, but would it have killed css to make the number even for iron?
they apear to have taken the time for all the other pure igot recepies, so its odd that iron is left out

[spare jolt]

Which is that number of ore per ingot I got

[heavy gust]

cataerium is 2:1
copper is 1:2.5
iron 7:13????

could have made it a clean 1:2, i dont think that would make the game balance worse

[wind spade]

they have their reasons

fe would make leached completely crap

[heavy gust]

looks more like they forgot with all the stuff goin on for 1.0

[wind spade]

and basic

[heavy gust]

okay but all the others have leeched and basic too, they seem to be fine

[spare jolt]

iirc there's only basic iron

[heavy gust]

maybe, never used either of those

[wind spade]

they have different rates than iron

copper leached is 9:22

iron leached is 1:2

[spare jolt]

9:22 💀

[heavy gust]

well perhaps they should have pushed the weird ratio to leeched, like they seem to have done with copper

[spare jolt]

Either way, I still prefer alloy ingots

[heavy gust]

if all the leeched alts have odd ratios, i doubt anyone is going to mind

[wind spade]

the thing is that what you call weird ratio, other people call normal ratios

[heavy gust]

find me one person (aside from you) that calls 7:13 a normal ratio

[wind spade]

game isn't supposed to be "everything fits nicely into other things and you never need to solve logistical challenges"

[heavy gust]

most things do fit nicely

and that seems to be very intentional

[wind spade]

most people don't care about ratios. They go "ok I need 452 iron ingots per minute, which is 6.954 machines, so I'm gonna build 7 and clock the last one to 95.4%"

[heavy gust]

thats a good portion of players, yes.
but i somehow doubt that im the only one that thinks its odd when all but one recepies for a category of alts have """"""normal""""" ratios

[wind spade]

if the game had only normal ratios, you wouldn't have any challenge

[heavy gust]

yeah challenge me with 0.53846153846 iron ore

[wind spade]

just clock the miner

more more resource efficient recipes usually have ratios that don't fit into other things, it's kinda balancing mechanic as well

[heavy gust]

thats not a challenge, thats a tilted artwork in a full galery of straight hanging artwork

and ur like "its not hanning weird, other people call that normal"

[wind spade]

I'd say like 30% of recipes have "weird" ratios

pure iron is hardly the only one

[merry bone]

Just make an extra 3.84% of whatever you were using iron for, it's easy 😎

[wind spade]

at which point it's no longer an exception, it's a different category

[solemn gorge]

wait greeny aren't you the one who made satisfactory tools?

[amber umbra]

This ^

[wind spade]

yes

[solemn gorge]

i must say its very good

and useful

[heavy gust]

its very good and we all love him forit

[solemn gorge]

we sure do

[spare jolt]

Wish it did support OCing and slooping though

Say "X assemblers of Y ingredient should be OC'd to Z% and use A number of sloops"

[heavy gust]

i think it does do OC in advanced settings

but never use that since it takes 4 years to load

[wraith timber]

hello! I have a question. I was looking at alt recipes and it seems that instant scrap is not well liked but to me it looks amazing. Can someone help me understand what I am missing?

[tidal dock]

for simplicity, yes. for miximizing available resource, it's horrible.

[wraith timber]

can you go into some detail please.

[magic island]

iirc Instant Scrap and Sloppy -> Electrode are tied for giving you the most aluminum per bauxite

it's a choice of spending coal + sulfur or spending oil

[wraith timber]

ahh okay good. Im glad I am not insane lol

is the issue the rarity of sulfur? I dont think much needs sulfur.

[spare jolt]

Not the rarity of sulfur but the abundance of oil

Oil products are produced in humongous amounts if you use diluted fuel + recycled plastic/rubber, and power can be generated with turbo or even rocket fuel

So you still have a lot of oil to spare

[wraith timber]

I see. But if I have a good spot for sulfur where I am building my base (I chose it for sulfur) there isnt really a huge downside to using sulfur but sulfur being less prolific than oil does present a downside

I am just now working on phase 4. Is there anything "mission critical" that will use huge amounts of sulfur beyond where I am?

[spare jolt]

There's zero problems with taking instant scrap, it's just electrode is simpler and more abundant. Sulfur is mostly used for consumables like bullets and nobelisks, and rocket fuel, maybe also classic batteries if you need some

[wraith timber]

ok cool

[spare jolt]

Ah, and nuclear power ofc

[wraith timber]

though I am gonna take a deeper look into electrode cause never hurts to look at all options

[wraith timber]

my current goal is to honestly basically skip over nuke power this save. I love rocket fuel lol

[spare jolt]

But unless you don't want to build a metric fuckton of generators for rocket fuel, it's not a big deal either

Full mk2 pipe of RF already takes 144 of those, which is just 💀

[wraith timber]

600 rocket fuel fills 144 gennies?

[spare jolt]

600/4.16666667 ≈ 144

[spare jolt]

It's actually 143.99999... because rounding, but it's negligible anyway

[wraith timber]

take that .9999999 and package it for jetpack lol

[amber jacinth]

Pretty sure it’s 144 on the dot, as the gens eat the fuel at 14.4 seconds per

[wraith timber]

oh damn nitro rocket fuel eating so much sulfur lol

[spare jolt]

The exact fraction for 4.166667 is 25/6, but the game rounds it to 5 or so decimals

[amber jacinth]

Well yeah, but the burn time on the gen is exact, and the parts/min is approximated off of the burn time

[spare jolt]

The price you pay for excluding water and iron plates 🚬

[wraith timber]

I mean....facts lol

[spare jolt]

And afaik it can be unlocked earlier, before Patricle Acceleration when you actually get nitric acid

[amber umbra]

Design wise, it feels nice to puzzle out the default RF, default TF recycle loop of compacted coal. Nitro rocket fuel making compacted coal which you can’t just recycle feels sorta “untidy” to me.

[wraith timber]

I already have nitric acid but dont have PA

[wraith timber]

I see what you mean. but hey maybe thats how I get the compacted coal for my aluminum lolol

[spare jolt]

Why can't you? Just sink it or shove it into some basic turbofuel setup

If you still have fuel to spare

Or at the very least burn it in coal gens lol

[amber umbra]

Recycle in an elegant way like default TF, default RF combo.

Turbo RF vs default RF is honestly tuned nicely game dev wise to give the easy option but lightly encourage puzzling it out more for upside.

[spare jolt]

Which is weird because it's only unlocked by particle enrichment milestone

[amber umbra]

Is PA, Particle Accelerator?

[spare jolt]

ye

[wraith timber]

did that maybe change? cause I 100% dont have a PA and just unlocked nitro rocket fuel from the mam

[amber umbra]

Generally all the HUB unlocks around there are similar item difficulty. Kinda all unlocked at the same time for me.

[wraith timber]

yea I unlocked all of T7 and most of T8 before I even automated a single piece of aluminum

[spare jolt]

I'm saying that nitro rf can be unlocked before nitric acid, which is required in default recipe and is unlocked with PAs

[wraith timber]

ohh crap! in my head I thought I already had nitric acid

so the rocket recipe is even nicer because I dont need to wait for/find nitric acid! awesome!

[spare jolt]

Yea

But again, double the sulfur 🚬

[wraith timber]

I have too many projects lol. I havent even finished my steel factory and now I wanna make aluminum and rocket fuel lol

is there an aluminum sheet that doesnt need copper?

[spare jolt]

There's only one alclad sheet recipe :(

[heavy gust]

if i use trains to collect the uranium and Quartz, as long as the miners are not backing up, i should be getting the expected throughput of 1200 Uranium, no?
i need only 1155 of the 1200, but those should arive right?

[wraith timber]

thats a huge bummer lol my location for aluminum has very little copper and its not super close :/

[spare jolt]

Then it's time to get some choo-choo mother******

[wraith timber]

LOLOLOL

[heavy gust]

i wouldnt like for my plants to tower down randomly when throughput isnt the expected 1200

[prisma kraken]

you're probably looking at a pretty long round trip with that all

[heavy gust]

but as long as nothing backs up, it should be 1200, right?

[prisma kraken]

i mean the 2 normal uranium nodes will give you 1200, yeah

[heavy gust]

or maybe ill make a loop and put multiple trains on it

[prisma kraken]

the problem is that trip is a lot longer than you think because the cave uranium is so far inside it, almost better to finsh the loop out the other side

[heavy gust]

mayve close it like this and put 2 or 3 trains on

it just needs to be less work than dragging 4 belts all that way

otherwise why even bother with a train

[copper seal]

i needed to supply 800 screws to 8 manufacturers for rotors but i only have 480 belts

so i essentially made 2 sets of 4 but the conveyor for the screws only goes halfway, the first 4

[wind spade]

8 constructors making 100 screws each, connect each to one manufacturer

[copper seal]

and then on the other side i'll put in another 400 screws

i know but i only have mk4 belts :V

[wind spade]

in the thing I have given, you only need mk2s

[copper seal]

nah i like the way i did it :V

also i already built the screw constructors in sets of 11 so that means i'd have to start tearing down constructors again

cause thats not the only thing i need screws for

[prisma kraken]

you're making me feel bad for you 😛

[copper seal]

why?

cause of mk4 belts?

honestly, my main goal currently is to unlock the last tier of belts

i love hardlight, its way underused in scifi :(

[spare jolt]

Changing that famous sentence, "The only winning way to use screws is to not use them"

[pulsar notch]

Why are you making so many screws offsite instead of at the process that needs them?

[copper seal]

they're not offsite

[prisma kraken]

'needing screws'

[copper seal]

i have enough screws, my belts just aren't good enough :V

im currently making 1320 screws

so thats 2 + a quite a bit more Mk4 belts

[spare jolt]

Using correct alts can totally eliminate screws from production chains

"100% carbon emission, 100% spaghetti, 0% screws"

[prisma kraken]

there's nothing really wrong with screws, they're a high volume part that forces you to do some logistical problem solving

[spare jolt]

^

[prisma kraken]

same can be said for quick/wire and concrete, copper powder

[copper seal]

i don't have the spare copper for that rn

and cba branching out to new nodes right now

i can make it with what i have available right now

[prisma kraken]

the thing is that screws are in the game to teach you that it is sometimes more efficient to transfer the antecedent item that makes a part instead of the part itself

[copper seal]

then i'll complete phase 3, then for phase 4 i'll start branching out to other locations

well i didn't learn that at all

i just learned to use more belts and play tetris with blueprints

[prisma kraken]

i use copper rotor for making them, it uses screws made from steel beam. that's about all i have in terms of production except for a single constructor dumping into a dimensional depot in case i ever need a spare awesome shop

(arguably, that could be overkill)

[copper seal]

also

its not like the assemblers are so far away from the constructors making the screws

they're right here

[prisma kraken]

we're just hinting to you that maybe there's some solutions to your problems with belt speed that you haven't considered and remove the problems you are trying to solve 🙂

[copper seal]

ye like i said i just dont have the spare copper for it

also i don't think i can unlock stitched reinforced iron plates yet

or maybe i can idk

[edgy leaf]

it's not necessary to solve any logistical challenge if you do it locally

one constructor making screws directly from iron ingots using the cast screws recipe Infront if any machine that needs sceews and boom, screws are solved

[prisma kraken]

removing a problem is a solution to the problem 😉

[edgy leaf]

touché

idk if the hat is the right direction

[pulsar notch]

Stitched plates are available, I'm reasonably sure, as soon as you unlock reinforced plates

[pulsar notch]

Yeah, screws are definitely a case (wire another) where I try like hell to have the machine(s) making the item feeding directly into the machine needing it, just to ensure my belts don't get overwhelmed

[spare jolt]

wire is definitely needed in lesser amounts per minute than screws, i'm 100% sure

[astral moth]

Hi. How much Iron rods, plates and screws would be good for late game?

[spare jolt]

unless you're maybe using iron wire, then yea

[pulsar notch]

Yeah, almost universally.

[spare jolt]

if you're asking how much screws you need for the late game - it's too early for you to think about this stage imo

for buildings only - maybe 30-60 of rods and plates will be fine, if you're solo

or 240 if you don't store them, since 240/min is the max upload speed of Dimensional Depot

[pulsar notch]

Honestly my approach so far has been to make a single machine outputting the project part i need, usually without overclocking, then design the whole assembly line to support that.

[spare jolt]

like, an assembly line for each spelevator part assembler?

[astral moth]

You say? I have enough smelters to produce 4800 iron ingots. I would like to set up a factory able to produce all iron i need. I just need to set the rods/plates/screws ratio and don't touch it

[spare jolt]

the only things you need screws for are equipment and awesome shop, no other building requires it. and in the late game, i'm pretty sure you'll be building from DD which can't upload faster than 240/min

unless you're using more than 1 depot per item which may be an overkill

[pulsar notch]

I'll tend to use the lines from previous phases, and end up often overclocking or slooping to deal with choke points, but yeah, electromagnetic rods get tacked onto my versatile framework line.

[astral moth]

Not directly, but motors, rotors or watherever will be needed. From an excel I made in the 0.8 I was doing 850 screws just before entering in plutonium, but I don't know if that would be enough

[spare jolt]

then I'll suggest using a calculator to calculate the amount of whatever you'll need to produce all necessary items

especially if you're producing the screws in a single spot and then distribute them all around, from what I assume

(though if I were you I'd try to completely eliminate screws from all production chains because they take a lot of space)

[astral moth]

More of distribute them inside a big factory. Sigh I guess I will see the calculator for setup. Thanks

[pulsar notch]

Eh, screws can be fine for like copper rotors if you have steel screws

[edgy leaf]

stupid internet not loading all the messages

[spare jolt]

well everyone uses different setups/plans/etc, so I doubt people can tell you the "approximate" or "average" amount of intermediates you need

[pulsar notch]

Moving steel beams is easy, and each beam is a ton of screws

[spare jolt]

most effective recipe to produce them though? yea, steel beam may be your best bet for screws

[edgy leaf]

building tons of smelters without even knowing what you want them to smelt is an uncommon way to play

generally people here recommend setting a goal and then building stuff to get there, not the other way around

[spare jolt]

^

[pulsar notch]

^

[astral moth]

i see why

[edgy leaf]

if you want to do it the other way you're mostly on your own, we can't know what your goals are so we can't tell you how much you need

which is not to say you shouldn't do it the way you plan to, it's not recommended by people here but it's not /wrong/. however it will probably be more difficult

remove the probably

[amber umbra]

I would say that Satisfactory lacks many of the tools that make “all my screws are made here” style designs not a pain. Better to design in a different way.

[pulsar notch]

You need some impressive logistical tools to make one huge factory work

[astral moth]

yeah, it's pointless difficulty, but i like the satisfaction of making a solid structure able to take all my possible needs jsjajsj

[amber umbra]

I’d recommend demoing your idea at a smaller scale first at least. Also, alt recipes makes planning everything at once very intensive.

How many screws depends on like 50 alt choices

[astral moth]

i even like sink every production excess so machines are working at 100% all the time. Nothing more satisfying than seeing a straight power consumption

[pulsar notch]

That's a lot of sinks

[astral moth]

yes, that's why i didn't want to use the calculator. I would need to make that choices now

Maybe i just make 1000 and sink the rest. Problem for the future me

[pulsar notch]

The satisfactory version of tech debt. Neat.

[spare jolt]

you know what you can try? take a region on the map and try to produce a bit of everything in there instead of a single product. e.g. here's my everything base (no titles because graph too chonky), which i derived for rocky desert and which produces every item required in building and almost every consumable up to but excluding tier 9. if you're playing solo, this type of base will serve you indefinitely, especially if you're using blueprints

[copper seal]

apparently you want to avoid using screws as much as possible

[amber umbra]

I mainly look at what items are needed for buildings, having one machine automating each. The elevator parts I automate to non zero extent. Another method is using one ore patch per item as a scaling approximation.

[copper seal]

i don't have the copper for it but if you're trying to do 4800 iron you should have enough copper too right

[astral moth]

Hey that's a good idea. I will think about it

[spare jolt]

ah yea right, i can share the factory from sftools. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=E2ZDPEoKbtBQubseIDfC

[astral moth]

1/3 of the 4800 iron ingots on screws are like 14 belts to distribuite them, sooo maybe i don't want that much hahahah

[spare jolt]

don't look at the weird numbers, i made them specifically in the way to get more or less round amount of buildings

[astral moth]

What you can do that? A.W.E.S.O.M.E

[spare jolt]

plastic, rubber, p. fuel and fabric are delivered from a separate factory https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=E2ZDPEoKbtBQubseIDfC

[spare jolt]

yea, this button

[astral moth]

very useful, thanks

[copper seal]

was talking a little about screws earlier myself, i don't have the copper for it

but apparently people generally just avoid screws as much as possible

and supposedly there are enough alt recipes to replace them all

[spare jolt]

because they have very low density

[copper seal]

i know

i had to feed 800 screws into 8 assemblers but i only have mk4 belts which max out at 480

[velvet venture]

building my first train so got a ques: Planning a line to gather 7 resources from around the map and bring them to one place. Guess there has to be a freight car for each resource for a total of 7 cars. At the factory location need 7 freight stations. My question is do I need to have 7 freight stations beside every single resource to make sure the correct frieght car is being filled up?

[copper seal]

now i don't have the copper to replace them so i had to find another way around while keeping it a group of 8 lol

[copper seal]

i mean you can just use the empty platforms

[astral moth]

i'm always like to take a belt from far far away with pure copper

hard work for nothing is my passion

[copper seal]

you could work around it with smart splitters too but then it might become a belt constraint, and its definitely not good for later

[pulsar notch]

Generally, each machine that needs screws gets its own dedicated screw production in my plant, just for the sake of belts

[copper seal]

so i wouldn't recommend that

[copper seal]

thats how it ended up but every belt had 40 screws surplus so i had to feed them into each other to

[unborn ermine]

Same, but I did 1170 screws into 6 machines

[pulsar notch]

Underclock a small amount maybe? Seems like a classic use case

[copper seal]

no cause i do need the extra 40 screws lol

i needed precisely 3 x 440 and just wanted 3x11 screw constructors for visual consistency :C

[unborn ermine]

ALSO fun fact 1170 screws perfectly feeds 6 copper rotor assemblers at 100% clock speed.

[copper seal]

so i just fed the 440 belts each into their respective 4 assemblers and smart split them away for overflow into each other

[pulsar notch]

Screws are also a commodity where I welcome a bit of overflow

[velvet venture]

thanks, also, do I need to have a station at each resource to get the train to stop?

(noob ques, sry)

[pulsar notch]

If overflow means I never have interruptions waiting for screws, cool

[unborn ermine]

Another tip for copper rotors, 6 steel screws, 4x 90% + 2x 45% works great

could do clocking a bit different when you get better belts, but thats how I did my mk4

[copper seal]

i did this

need a break now

this left to go

[unborn ermine]

ngl thats much harder for me to read, literally and functionally.

[copper seal]

also i think i should set up another oil processing plant to get more plastic/rubber =|

honestly works fine for me

[unborn ermine]

The text gets too small and pixelated.

even in your images

[spare jolt]

also these green screen backgrounds 💀

[copper seal]

you can zoom in and out u know lol

[pulsar notch]

I did love that a refinery makes exactly enough copper sheets for copper rotors

[copper seal]

i have no problems reading it

[unborn ermine]

I like the full view and being able to read, also my scroll wheel is fucked so its a bit annoying on SCIM

[copper seal]

its cause im done with them lol

you can click on them and they become green, i use it to note that i've already done it

[unborn ermine]

imagine you want to scroll down, then the wheel jumps up 4x

[copper seal]

i just use it because its what i eventually got used to

didnt even know satisfactory tools existed

and honestly, they're practically the same

[tidal dock]

not using this for screws?

you can get lots of compacted coal as by production from rocket fuel to make steel beam.

[spare jolt]

"nah, i'm just maximizing my screw production ,rocket fuel is just the byproduct"

[copper seal]

yes, because you use the station to tell your train where to go

i don't think you can even put down platforms without putting down a station first

[copper seal]

if u mean me? no

i don't want to waste my steel on that, and i don't have the belts to support that anyways

like 1.75 of those and my belt is full lol

[wind spade]

you're not supposed to put multiple on a single belt tho

you build them in front of machines that need the screws

[copper seal]

thats what i already did, but with iron ingots

im just in phase 3 though so i'm gonna expand and tear stuff down eventually anyways

[wind spade]

I would recommend against tearing down stuff

[copper seal]

gonna take ages until i unlock miner mk3 tho

[spare jolt]

not if you sink every single overflow

[copper seal]

?

how is that gonna help me unlock mk3 miner?

[spare jolt]

if the produce has an overflow (i.e. you produce computers and the storage is full), just send them to awesome sink, when you get to the mk3 miner milestone, just buy the parts for coupons and send them

[copper seal]

little late for that

[spare jolt]

that's how I was able to build my rocket fuel factory w/o automating radio units

[copper seal]

and i dont want to introduce that kind of spaghetti lol

[spare jolt]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[long shuttle]

could there be issues with throughput if i do 250% sloppy alumina refineries?

cause that's 600 output per refinery and i think i remember seeing somewhere people having issues with max throughput pipes

[scenic cloud]

If it's 1 to 1, it should be fine. The issue is that if the pipe ever flows backward for any reason it will starve the machine, but in a simple case like this it shouldn't happen

[long shuttle]

alright cool

[tidal dock]

1200 crude oil into plastic and rubber plant is getting there

[sinful oasis]

is there like, an opposite of injection manifolds? Making a ton of quickwire and it's a logistics headache

[pulsar notch]

quickwire is one of those commodities I belt as little as possible, usually having a dedicated quickwire machine directly adjacent to the machine needing it.

[sinful oasis]

honestly, that's probably a much better plan than my idea...

yeah I'm gunna rework some things. Just refine the ingots instead...

[pulsar notch]

don't forget the fused quickwire recipe makes caterium go much further and also has a high volume of output

[edgy leaf]

I love this recipe because its literally the most iron efficient way to make screws

it's perfection

it makes it so you can use 0 iron to make 52 screws

well so does the normal one but it's less aluminum efficient

[sinful oasis]

needs a ton of copper though

[pulsar notch]

true, but copper is pretty common in most cases.

[scenic cloud]

That is a lot of pasta you aren't making.

[tidal dock]

yup, I do have a small chain that convert aluminum into steel then to screws, since all iron and coal is accounted for in that particular location.

[near hatch]

is there a practical limit to how many items a train could carry per minute ?

per freight car i might add

[sinful oasis]

depends on the item and how much a stack of it is

[near hatch]

bauxite so i believe its 100

but the thing is by using only one freight car i am worried that depending on how long the train takes to loop around and come back again the station would have stacked too much resulting in a "loss" of ressources

[toxic hemlock]

When people talk about the reliability of special priority pumps, what do we mean by "unstable"?

[violet halo]

It also depends on the time to loop.

[sinful oasis]

so that'd be 3200 per car, though then it also depends on what tier belt you have

[near hatch]

i've mk5

[toxic hemlock]

I'm working on upgrading my aluminum production and I want to minimize the number of buildings, which results in unclean pipe ratios

if I use a priority pipe, is that like "this might get messed up every so often" or "you're gonna need to fix this every hour"?

[sinful oasis]

then the absolute maximum would be like 1560, but then you need to take into account docking time since it stops loading/unloading

so depending on the amount of cars on that route, somewhere between 780 and 1500-ish

[near hatch]

yeah thats where im struggling x)

i need to load 750 bauxite at 2 stops summing to 1500 so i was considering one or two cars

[sinful oasis]

yah train logistics are funky, I just plan on a single belt speed since it's easier, though I heard some folks plan for like 1.5x

like I'd use two cars to make it simpler to unload

[near hatch]

i've a feeling that the moment you load things into a train you already expect to have unused surplus

[sinful oasis]

just use more train!

yeah like I have a train route that picks up a bunch of iron from a depot then brings it to a central refinery by the coast. It's two pures, a normal, and two impures. I balance it out to basically 600 x 3, so I used 3 cars to make it simpler

so far it's been working out pretty well!

[near hatch]

yeah i have a train like that with 4 cars at 390 per cars

idon't know how to calculate the practical limit so i overkill the number of cars

[copper seal]

i mean, you don't have to get it right all at once

the cargo platforms will tell you the throughput themselves

just let it run a couple of times, if its too slow add more, if there is still plenty of space left just remove some

[near hatch]

sure but it can take some time before it bottlenecks

[copper seal]

couple of trips, even faster if you don't let the buffer fill first

[gray aurora]

Is this the best thingy ma bob to ask about logistics because I dug a very deep metaphorical hole and not sure how to approach it

[copper seal]

if you start with a empty buffer then it will tell you the true items/minute after just 2 trips or something

[sinful oasis]

it's your best bet! (a bet anyways)

[copper seal]

and if there are items left when its done docking then you need an extra cart

[oblique hollow]

I was gonna use the "gordian knot" methaphor here but im not sure what that would be for "digging yourself a hole"

[gray aurora]

Cool okay so let's say hypothetically speaking I need to make a factory with 81 smelters 215 constructors 66 assemblers and 12 foundries and I haven't even finished phase 2, what would be the best way to do that? because hypothetically speaking I've been staring at my empty plane of foundations and just don't know what to place where. Hypothetically speaking of course.

[near hatch]

bruh

[gray aurora]

help.

[near hatch]

desert is pretty flat

[sinful oasis]

if you haven't even finished phase 2

I'd say plan that out first! Satisfactory tools, satisfactory modeler (my choice)

I like building up and organizing things by floor

[gray aurora]

Oooo I forgot those existed I'll have a looksie

[oblique hollow]

Hypothetically speaking, it doesnt matter how you start because it will just turn into a complex work anyway.
You can, hypthotetically, just start anywhere.
It doesnt matter much
what could probably help would be looking up how much space these machines take up.

[amber jacinth]

Just start slapping buildings down and see where it takes you

[oblique hollow]

so you wouldnt run into any hypothetical roadblocks by running into a cliff

[near hatch]

with that much buildings you'll need a massive power plant too, if you haven't finished phase 2 it means that you still use coal, it'll be hard

[oblique hollow]

As for reducing the amount of work needed... Blueprints would have really helped there

[gray aurora]

Oh jesus I hadn't thought of that. Ohhhhh noooo. That aint good

[sinful oasis]

like I just got done making my heavy modular frame factory. I planned it out like this and organized floors by collumn

oh yeah you're gunna need a lotta power for all that lol

you get coal at phase 2 right?

[gray aurora]

yeah yeah I on coal

[oblique hollow]

28/min HMF

[sinful oasis]

off to the coal hole with you!

[oblique hollow]

maniac

[sinful oasis]

it looks so good tho c:

[oblique hollow]

just accept youre a maniac
You can be a maniac and still have pretty factories

[sinful oasis]

mostly prebby!

[gray aurora]

ah 2366 power. thats concerning

[gray aurora]

nice man

[near hatch]

ooh you can put labels on the buildings 🤌

[gray aurora]

Labels make everything better

[sinful oasis]

just incase I forget what the big machines on top of the building dedicated to HMFs are for

[gray aurora]

exactly

lol

[sinful oasis]

but yeah, definitely blueprint everything

managed with this loading method I saw on the subreddit I managed to fit 8 assembler in one mk2

[gray aurora]

Jaja. because i got my plan and stuff just need to work out where the hell to put stuff

[sinful oasis]

wait, actually right phase 2 nevermind. Still you can fit at least 2 easy

[gray aurora]

oooo thats impressive

[sinful oasis]

it barely fits

[gray aurora]

hey barely fits and fits is the same thing

but yeah never actually worked on a factory like this before. before 1.0 the closest I came was the factory to finish phase 3 (I play this game very slow)

and yet somehow I managed to maths my way into trying to make 60 motors a minute

[sinful oasis]

I've been on phase 4 for a month, you're fine lol

give Satisfactory modeler a try, it's so good for planning

[gray aurora]

oh thats a steam game. huh jaja ill check it out

[sinful oasis]

Tools is good too, I just prefer modeler since you can plan out stuff yourself instead of being given an answer

[gray aurora]

Yeah Satisfactory modeler will be great actually because in all my big number go up wisdom I'm gonna have to sort 3000 screws a minute with only 270 conveyers. I don't know why I do this to myself but here we gooooooo

[copper seal]

you really don't need such a fancypants blueprint to fit 8 in there

[sinful oasis]

in a mk2?

[copper seal]

yep

[sinful oasis]

with output

[copper seal]

oh no not output

[sinful oasis]

c: exactly!

[copper seal]

ah i see

but you have the output so close to the merger

but i don't like that, thats why i don't care about that lol

[sinful oasis]

oh totally fair lol, i had like 70 of these things and I wanted the most lazy method to make em

[sinful oasis]

good luck!

[gray aurora]

thanks lol

[gray aurora]

Okay yeah Modeler is a really good thing I miscalculated how many smelter I would need and that would've been a pain and a half jeezus

Cool thanks a lot dude this is a lot easier than my ms paint attempt at a plan

[sinful oasis]

also go hard drive hunting cause cast screws will save you 75 constructors and 300MW lol

[gray aurora]

Oh yeah I completely forgot about that

[rotund sleet]

as well as alloy recipes whenever you're using copper and iron in one place

[fossil sand]

Hey folks, I’m trying to digure something out. I got:

• 240 crude oil
• 699

[sinful oasis]

oh no the crude oil got them

[fossil sand]

Yup 😦

To be fair I’m half way asleep and so pressing rando buttons and passing out :p

[oblique hollow]

go sleep lmao

[fossil sand]

Hey folks, I’m trying to figure something out. I got:

• 240 crude oil
• 60 fuel each
• polymer resin synced
• i’ve, already primed the fuel generatora
• 7 generators
• last 2-4 do not get filled after a while.
• crude oil is 40+ meters up

[fossil sand]

No 🙂

This is my only play time

[oblique hollow]

7 generators need 140/min fuel
do you actually make 140/min

[sinful oasis]

guessing they're overclocked?

[fossil sand]

Nothing overclocked

[oblique hollow]

make sure you got enough pipeline pumps evenly spaced out and none of them are near their head lift limit

[fossil sand]

Making 160/min and correction 7 generators and a packager

[oblique hollow]

hope that packager is clocked down to 20/min

[fossil sand]

Generators are 40 meters below deposit

[oblique hollow]

oh well then there is no height issue lol sorry. misread a bit

[fossil sand]

No worries, I am on mobile so not detailing well enough 🙂

Anywho. I’ll check the packager. i know it’s not clocked down, but was sure it’s 1:1 with the generator

[oblique hollow]

your only option really is to check if the fuel backs up into the refineries. Or if they arent working at 100% efficiency
if it doesnt then there can only be an overconsumption of fuel really

[fossil sand]

So 4 refineries should be 8 generators or 7 generators and a packager

Polymer is moving, so shouldn’t be backing up

[oblique hollow]

half a packager

[fossil sand]

I do have a pump for 1m headlift because I thought that was it

[oblique hollow]

no cant be it

[fossil sand]

I know there’s default headlift so couldn’t be

[oblique hollow]

refineries already supply +10m minimum

[fossil sand]

I need to get a mouse mover…. Afking on GFN sucks

You were right btw

Packager is 40

[oblique hollow]

yep that sure does steal you quite a bit of fuel

[fossil sand]

Just killed off the 7th generator for now

Don’t need power right now

I got no factories as I deleted everything in SCIM 🙂

[grim walrus]

so if i need 112 reinferys whats the lowest i can go down with 2.5 boosted

[edgy leaf]

ceil(112/2.5)

aka divide 112 by 2.5 and round up. 45

[grim walrus]

i did deeper math needing 4200 ingots a minute and divided by 84 for 50 reinferys

[edgy leaf]

not sure what you mean. if you need 112 unboosted then you can go down to 45 boosted

45*2.5 = 112.5

[grim walrus]

ig ye

[tidal dock]

make sure you got enough juice for OC refineries

[grim walrus]

i got 4 unused water storages i should be fine i hope xd

gonna have to add water in the middle propeply

[tidal dock]

I mean power consumption

[grim walrus]

i have 150k free power

[copper seal]

😂

[velvet ferry]

sometimes there is an issue with pipe floor holes the pump wont lift past the port hole, could be something to look at

[fossil sand]

It was the packager, taking 40 instead of 20 as I thought originally

[velvet ferry]

understood

the joys of troubleshooting

[fossil sand]

Well it is my job 🙂

But all credit goes to McGalleon for letting me know about the packager 🙂

[velvet ferry]

its always something

[vapid gorge]

here, give this a go, it's a lot faster https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=GjhleJ6nHPpYdmVUl92k

[velvet ferry]

i dont think ive ever got done with a build and it went all green without having to find something

[spare jolt]

they should give you exactly the minimum amount of minutes of sleep so you wouldn't pass out in 24 hours.

*as a privilege though, not a right

[tidal dock]

90 minutes of REM, that's all you got.

[fringe pawn]

My record is 26 hours via leaving the game on overnight. Somewhere after that point the game does a brief restart and the streak ends.

Nothing special happened, the messages are generic and random every 2 hours.

[copper seal]

ye but this is 8hrs of actually playing

and i know lol

36 buildings left to go

but 10 of those are manufacturers D:

and i don't even have a manufacturer BP yet

i already did like 300 buildings today

but once i finish this i'll be able to complete phase 3 relatively soon

[fossil sand]

Speaking of. i will probably redo my entire oil thing

I kinda have an idea to do in floor, but visible cable management

Because at this point, I don’t know where all of my cables are 🙂

[copper seal]

whats the best way to feed manufacturers?

[fossil sand]

Belts

[copper seal]

ofcourse, why didn't i think about that

[fossil sand]

I mean it was right there. Anywho, what do you mean?

Manifold vs loadbalance or?

[copper seal]

but like, from above or below?

[unborn ermine]

I see a lot of people do manifold, vertical, with lifts.

[copper seal]

or maybe like this but with one layer of these diagonal splitters behind it?

[fossil sand]

Iirc someone said lifts are slightly slower, but not by anything meaningful

[amber jacinth]

Lifts transport items at the same rate as belts do

[fossil sand]

But from everything that I’ve seen it seems to be personal design preference

[copper seal]

i hate personal design preference

its never a easy answer in satisfactory :(

not having easy answers is.... not satisfactory =|

[fossil sand]

Not a hill I would die on tbh, on paper yes, but seen it mentioned that the switch to vertical slows it down a notch

[copper seal]

solving them is

anyways.

[fossil sand]

I meeeeeean, there really is no right answer because the difference is not there

[copper seal]

i still need to make circuit boards, cables, stators, encased industrial beams,, heavy mod frames, automated wiring, motor, modular engines, computers and adaptive control units

q_q

[fossil sand]

I prefer to do lifts from above for walkability, but then sometimes if I plan ahead enough I have a logistics floor below

[fossil sand]

Soooo everything 😉

[copper seal]

well

[unborn ermine]

Same
I jumped ship to get power going, so I slammed aluminum and got RF set up

[copper seal]

today i've done... copper sheets, wires, steel beams, steel pipes, iron plates, iron rods, modular frames, rotors, smart plating, reinforced iron plates and screws

lots and lots of screws...

[fossil sand]

I’m still in research and sink phase and then I’m going to delete everything again and start building all over again

[fierce berry]

Anyone know a Satisfactory Calculator that can support custom recipes?

[copper seal]

and i've been making BP's along the way

do you mean like.. alt recipes, or mods? or recipes that you made yourself?

[astral warren]

The person who made the Nuclear Turbofuel mod has one, iirc

[fierce berry]

Yep

[copper seal]

yep what?

[fierce berry]

Yep to both

[copper seal]

i asked 3 things

[fierce berry]

Modded recipes and personally made ones

[copper seal]

oh

idk about personally made ones but modded recipes, if they're known mods then satisfactory calculator can take into account mods

[fossil sand]

You could build one with ChatGPT 😉

[copper seal]

but

ehm... if they're personal modded recipes... wouldn't you just be better off making your own excel sheets?

[fossil sand]

Or just use ChatGPT to be your calculator

[wind spade]

or you could just use one of the existing ones and add your recipes there

[copper seal]

you could learn excel along the way and you'd never have to rely on anyone to make any calculating tool for you, ever again.

[wind spade]

and no, never use chatgpt as a calculator

[spare jolt]

and get 6.05829 leaves per 5529.2783 biomass

[fossil sand]

Biomass can go to hell

[spare jolt]

you get the idea

chatgpt is fucking stupid as a calculator

[copper seal]

don't be mean to biomass :( has saved my ass a couple of times

[spare jolt]

its a language model, not a mathematical model

[astral warren]

When will someone release a GPT that can read SF saves so it can help me make my factories less ugly 🔥

[copper seal]

i keep biomass burners as a backup starter engine for my fuel power generator setup

[fossil sand]

I mean. SISO

[fossil sand]

Just use geothermal 🙂

[copper seal]

i'm not anywhere near geothermal yet

wait

can rail lines carry electricity?

[spare jolt]

ye

[fossil sand]

Yup

[copper seal]

no i mean like

[spare jolt]

yes they can

[copper seal]

if i have a train station at my fuel gens

oh, pog.

[fringe seal]

and the stations are your outlets

[astral warren]

^

[spare jolt]

^

rails are just big-ass wires for trains

[unborn ermine]

They also act like power nodes for your hover pack if you ever feel inclined

[copper seal]

maybe i should find some geotherm with some nodes nearby and just plonk a train station there

[amber umbra]

@copper seal I like the manifold with lifts style for manufacturers. Uses the 1, 3, 4, 5 heights above foundation. Pairs nicely with assembler inputs where the assembler and manufacturer need the same item.

[copper seal]

wdym 1/3/4/5?

you mean clicks?

like every snap of the conveyor pole?

[amber umbra]

Like if you make a stack of splitters. You have the 1st splitter on foundation, then 2nd one stacked up. 3, 4, 5, etc.

So shortest vertical belt is 1 to 3 height.

[fringe seal]

2 can be utilized

but you need to snap the lift on something

[amber umbra]

Yes, I just don't like it visually.

[fringe seal]

ah fair

[copper seal]

ah i see what you mean

1 through 5 splitters high

yeah i already use 1 and 2 on my assemblers

[amber umbra]

Yes. I tried the style where you use the "2 height" but then you need the assembler to also use the "2 height" and it just gets messier than the 1, 3, 4, 5 thing.

I know many people use multiple floors more, so they'll feed manufacturers directly through the floor with lifts at the same height.

[copper seal]

ye i already use assembler 2 height lol

ye

i think that would look nicer but...

i want to make something that looks nice but im incredibly bad at accounting for growth

[amber umbra]

Like growth in item/s output?

[copper seal]

yeah like i get better miners so i need to add more smelters

usually im fine w/ accounting for growth in smelters

but then more smelters = more ingots = more constructors = more assemblers etc.etc.

thats when it gets messy

[amber umbra]

I’d say, playing around with smelters and designs that scale with faster belts applies to more complex builds.

[copper seal]

so i gave up on going for making things look nice until i get mk3 / highest tier belts

[amber umbra]

While a smelter is one building you can conceptually think of any production line as a “single unit” that is identical to a smelter.

[copper seal]

i have a aesthetic idea anyways, that only really fits with the last belt lol

i know but i underestimate howmuch growth

because, just because i add more ingots doesn't mean i'm adding just as many constructors, or just as many assemblers

because the ratios aren't 1:1 or 1:2

its like 1:2.5 or stuff like that and then it gets weird

[amber umbra]

That’s kinda the whole idea of a manifold. You just extended the number of machines and as long as you don’t exceed the belt throughout it just works.

[copper seal]

also i had an issue with my refinery setup

i forgot about the 1m foundation issue with the world grid so it wasn't aligned

i managed to somewhat cover it up

and i finessed the walls with half foundations so i could fit 2 gates and clip them through each other, now everytime a train comes by they open up just enough to let a train by

the train clips a little bit at the bottom though :(

but its not like i intend to drive the train myself often lol

but it would be weird if it opened up more on the left or the right, it had to be exactly centered

maybe i'll redo it eventually and align it with the world grid

[prisma kraken]

this is driving me nuts... no matter how many times i rebuild the pipe segment, it always places the indicator in a whacky spot

[brisk smelt]

yeowch so much power

[prisma kraken]

italian for dinner?

[brisk smelt]

nope, recycling spicy waste

[prisma kraken]

ahh mexican 😉

[spice radish]

Is this right?

[fringe pawn]

I always use clean pipes for this reason. I only ever do default pipes as a conscious decoration choice on occasion.

[copper seal]

wait i fixed it!

now it goes through cleanly

[fringe seal]

9.9MW for mk3 @ 50% feels wrong

[prisma kraken]

i believe the power numbers listed are the values before update 7, at this point a machine at 200% should use 2.5x the power

nah, looks right, think i was looking at the wrong column

[velvet venture]

I have a bauxite mine on the last stop pulling in 1200/min

This is what the unloading station shows. I need 1200/min in my factory

is this ok? if not what to fix. Have 1 buffer on both loading and unloading ends

[copper seal]

that doesn't look like 1200/m though

thats like, barely 1400 items

[prisma kraken]

the number displayed as transfer rate in the station platforms is a running average over time, it always is a little off, but takes a few trainloads to converge on an actual value

[copper seal]

so unless your train trip, loading + travel + unloading is like ... 70 seconds

that can't be 1200 items / minute

[keen moss]

Simple, but functional (i guess)

[copper seal]

at which point its probably better to just use belts lol

[prisma kraken]

tiny bit of math: round trip time for a car moving 1200/min of a 100-stack item has to be less than 2 minutes

[copper seal]

it should be 70-ish seconds

1200 items per minute is 20 items per second, 70 x 20 = 1400 items, which he roughly has in his cart

[prisma kraken]

i'm just doing napkin math of 24 slots = 2400

[copper seal]

so unless the round trip, loading + travel + unloading is 70-ish seconds, he's not actually putting 1200 items into the station

or he's not unloading it fast enough and its backlogged at the receiving end

[prisma kraken]

yep, tl;dr you need to split the load btw multiple cars or multiple trains

[copper seal]

and unloading + loading takes quite alot of time

[prisma kraken]

27.08 x 2 seconds

[velvet venture]

alright, another train came in, the updated one shows 470/min. Also started a stop watch at the time of the train horn. lets see

[prisma kraken]

i'll save you the trouble of waiting and hoping to see 1200/min - you won't unless you add another carraige or train

[copper seal]

are you sure you're not accidentally using mk4 belts?

[velvet venture]

(have 2x mk6 belts at the unload to a sink)

[copper seal]

the cart isn't full yet

he still has space for 1070 items in that cart

[velvet venture]

at the input I got a mk6 belt from a maxed out mk3 miner on a pure node

[copper seal]

and output?

also mk6 belt?

[velvet venture]

on output 2x mk6 belts to a sink

[prisma kraken]

actually, um... check the clock rate on the miner

[velvet venture]

I think there might be issues in the input area gotta check it out

[copper seal]

ye

anyways,

a full cart = 4 rows

you don't even have 3 full rows yet

[prisma kraken]

yeah, check the miner first, make sure you set the clock and didn't just stick in some shards 🙂

[copper seal]

also, you can daisy chain the freight platforms together

so if you are adding toomany items to a single platform you can always just daisy chain it to the next, and then the next

until you have a cart thats not backlogging

[prisma kraken]

i've never quite figured out how to do that in a way that doesn't lead to craziness

[copper seal]

oh thats easy though?

[prisma kraken]

i've always found it creates an imbalance where you're transfering far less per train than you could be

[copper seal]

ye its just for the circumstance that toomany items are going into one platform

idk, i've never had issues with train throughput so i haven't had to use it

[velvet venture]

another round trip
per round trip horn to horn about 6.5mins
and on dismantle view the bauxite cart had 3200 of it