math-and-meta

[ember fractal]

How do you record your truck paths?

Do you load at the start?

[prisma kraken]

i take a practice drive of the path, then record it on second loop if i don't have some landscaping to do

like just open the record menu and drive the path

i try to spend as little time on it all as i can get away with

like here's the route i have one driving just to pick up a miner's output and get it to a train station:

[ember fractal]

I mean, after hitting record what do you do? Load at the station and drive to the other?

Where do you start the recording?

[prisma kraken]

i start at one of the stations and just drive the loop after hitting record

afterward, i'll save the route with a meaningful name in case i need to set up another tractor on it

sometimes after i'm done recording, i'll fix up a spinout i had on the route by deleting some path arrows

[sacred zenith]

what would a 5 way splitter look like (a .2/.2/.2/.2/.2) (i dont mean to interrupt)

[prisma kraken]

i really don't use them much

5-way is a 6way split either 2-way then 3-way or 3-way then 2-way, where you loop one of the 6 outputs back into the input line

when you have a situation where you need such a construct, consider overclocking machines to 125% or 250% to change the 5 into a 4 or a 2

[sacred zenith]

ig, but im splitting 20 into 5, 4-way splitters

if you know what i mean

[prisma kraken]

well, if you are wanting to consume 20, an OC to 250% changes it to 8

[ember fractal]

I wonder if anyone uses trucks much

[prisma kraken]

their capacity pre-1.0 was pretty much never needed (like i mean you just didn't need it. Ever.), with miners doing 1200/min, there's a use case for them

[ember fractal]

I never used them, was either doing long belts or trains

But since they're in the game, I wanna give them a chance

Especially with the nicer fuels

[prisma kraken]

you're better off with belts or trains, but sometimes they can save you a cross-country belt project

[ember fractal]

Some terrain is just a pain for trains

[prisma kraken]

pretty much

i also like the added activity they give to a factory

[fringe pawn]

For remote nodes like that, recording a path for trucks can often be just as much of a pain.

[ember fractal]

Also I hate building belts on bare ground. They just look so ugly

[prisma kraken]

hah, yeah

in any event, if you use them for anything, i always opt for the tractor until it proves it gets too full per load

recording routes for the trucks is an exercise in patience that even I tend to run out of with them

much better in u8 & 1.0 than they were before u8, but they're still awful

i think personally, it is that way because CSS wants to try to give us 'muricans some common sense 😛

[fallen geyser]

have you seen the DoshDoshington video where he tries to make a Factorio megabase built around cars transporting everything instead of trains and it goes to shit

[prisma kraken]

no, but i've tried myself. have the t-shirt.

[fallen geyser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S87vHUobvQ

[ivory aurora]

How many resource nodes were you usign when y'all were tier 3 - 4? i feel like i am "under pace" for somewhat fast production

[fallen geyser]

I got up to tier 9 without building major bases outside my starting area tbh

[prisma kraken]

before you get trains cooking, really it's whatever is nearby in your starting spot

[fallen geyser]

But also I hate building stuff I know will be obsolete which makes it difficult to build optimal stuff before unlocking mk6 belts to actually fully utilize pure nodes

[ivory aurora]

but then production would be slow wouldnt it? did you just like wait a ton of hours?

[willow moss]

i've built a crazy long conveyor belt, but instead of transporting the item from A to B and being processed there, it makes more sense to take the component from B to A and process there 😦 can conveyor's switch direction based on what is connected or I would have to lay all that again going the other way?

[fallen geyser]

Yeah I'll set up production and then leave the game on overnight, I don't recommend it but it works

[ivory aurora]

Im afraid you'd have to build the conveyor line agaiun

[fallen geyser]

Like the rate itself is pretty decent, I aim for 400ish/min of most relevant materials, but setting them up takes forever

[prisma kraken]

this is what i have tapped after having completed phase 5 - some of it has been added after i completed the game

[magic island]

there's no need to worry about your miner/belt speeds being obsolete, just build your factories with room to grow up to a 1200 ore input

the main anxiety is if you know you're gonna wanna use more complex recipes later

[fallen geyser]

My strat is to get to tier 9 with the minimum footprint, unlock mk6 belts, and then exploit the entire map

[ivory aurora]

Dang rn im just going for 120/min

[fallen geyser]

Ah but this assumes I can build with foresight instead of vomiting out machines as they fit together

[ivory aurora]

Though i must say i havent explored much

[prisma kraken]

something of a trick in the early going is that the copper and iron alloy alt recipes multiply your ore->ingot very considerably

[ember fractal]

I tend to rush to mk3 miner and mk5 belt, but that's because this is like my 7th playthrough

[fallen geyser]

I understand the value of the alloy alts but I'm a pure alt truther

[ivory aurora]

Im 150 rotors away from unlocking foundrys i'll see what their up to but, How do i get hard drives?

[fallen geyser]

Power is cheap and increased setup time and complexity is the reason I play this game in the first place

[prisma kraken]

find crashed drop pods

[ember fractal]

I like the alloy recipes whenever I'm sick and tired of building refineries and dealing with fluids

[prisma kraken]

there's 5-6 in your starting biome if you look around

[magic island]

the main thing is that if you think you're going to upgrade a recipe choice later, keep those machines separate enough to change out

ie, if you're pre-oil doing smelted caterium, and you know you'll want to change to tempered later, keep it modular and leave lots of room to replace the smelters with foundries

[fallen geyser]

tbh by the time I get around to upgrading existing builds instead of making new ones, I'm usually so disgusted by my early-game build that I want to burn it down and start over anyways

[prisma kraken]

if you'tr looking to make 60 pasta/min, there's a place for pure copper. if that isn't your goal, pure copper is a fricking waste. Iron Alloy makes more ingots per iron ore than pure iron, so don't think pure maximizes your screw production capacity.

[magic island]

haha

yeah, I've been there. I've yet to have a playthrough where I looked at my early-game buildings and thought "yep, I nailed it, this is still lookin' great"

[ivory aurora]

Is there a way to find crashed drop pods or i just have to meander

[ember fractal]

The thing about pure recipes, it's a pain to have a nice stackable blueprint for them.

You need pumps all the time

[magic island]

the quartz research tree lets you search for them with the scanner

[prisma kraken]

the object scanner can find them after unlocking it in the mam, but that's kind of a later game unlock

[fallen geyser]

I'm trying to come up with vertically stackable blueprints to simplify factory layouts, like I can just block off a 3x3 area and know it'll have anywhere from 4 to 40 constructors

But refineries are obnoxious to stack

[prisma kraken]

best idea: climb something high and look around

[unborn ermine]

Yeah the Pure/Alloy alts are when you either only have one type of ore nearby and dont want to do logistics or taking all of the resources nearby for one goal.

[prisma kraken]

or alternatively when the ratios that pure make are too perfect not to use them

[keen moss]

I'm unloading the train or unloading the station?

[prisma kraken]

the train

[keen moss]

tankiu tankiu tankiu

[ember fractal]

Unload the train into the station

[unborn ermine]

Like one spot Im using south of the gold coast, by the pure sulphur node.
ALL of the copper is being alloyed, but I dont have any copper I want to pull from rn so im doing the rest of certain iron nodes as pure.

[ember fractal]

What's the math and numbers for a pure iron node 1200 ore if you wanna do pure ingot recipe?

Or let's say 600 iron ore, cuz for 1200 I can just double the design

[unborn ermine]

a really gross number

[ember fractal]

Most of my builds are based on 600 ore input

[ivory aurora]

Up on a tower on top of my factory and now i just see how close everything is dang

[unborn ermine]

2,228.5714..../min of iron ingots per 1200

[magic island]

yuck

[unborn ermine]

its an irrational number too

[magic island]

honestly I literally only use default or alloy for iron (and alloy is mainly for solid steel)

the game has almost never left me in a position of wanting to stretch my iron ore further

[ember fractal]

That's why I typically don't do pure, except for pure caterium, that one plays out nicely

[ivory aurora]

How can they all be impure

[amber jacinth]

grassy fields

[unborn ermine]

Yeah like, the area im in, used 520 iron ore for compact steel, the rest was divided up into pure... and one smelter

[magic island]

tempered caterium gives the same ingots per ore as pure, and foundries > refineries

leached also gives the best yield now

eat it, pure caterium. get lost

[ember fractal]

Pure caterium is still good

[unborn ermine]

Pure is good if you arent diving into more oil burning

[ember fractal]

Water is essentially unlimited

Tempered caterium needs what? Coal?

[unborn ermine]

petrol coke

[magic island]

the main use for pure caterium now is to avoid cutting into any other resource

but it's more useful than ever to produce a coke supply (coke steel is great too), so I quite like tempered

[unborn ermine]

Yeah it would be great if you had extra when diving into coke production chains.

[sacred zenith]

i meant im feeding 20 constructors by splitting one conveyor in to 5 sets of 4-way splitters, i just dont know how to evenly split up the 5 part

[prisma kraken]

it's actually quite a bit of iron 8x300/min in one spot

[ivory aurora]

oh that may solve my life at some point

I found a caterium node, why cant i mine it?

[prisma kraken]

if you make the nearby coal node into compacted coal, that 2400 iron can be 4800 steel ingots/min (for a butt ton of power)

need to blow up the rock on top with

[ivory aurora]

oh i dont have that

[prisma kraken]

the research you do in the MAM plays a huge part in making life easier

it unlocks quite a few of the cool toys in the game

[ember fractal]

I have 1000 compacted coal as by product from rocket fuel production. Currently just sinking it, but I'll need to turn it into steel at some point. That's gonna be a massive tower of foundries

[prisma kraken]

keep in mind you can also burn it in coal gens

[ember fractal]

With all that steel my rotor, stator and motor needs will be fully met.

[unborn ermine]

Im using 260/min for steel, 1040/min
gunna be a NICE chunk for you.

[ember fractal]

Oh yah, will be 4k steel ingots

Can rocket fuel melt steel beams?

[prisma kraken]

that's endgame hmf-land 🙂

[ember fractal]

I have 45 HMF for now

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i just finished up 90/min... that took i think 3600 ingots

[ivory aurora]

Can a hard drive give me a recipe i cannot make

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sometimes it gives you ones for machines you don't yet have

or ingredients

[ember fractal]

Wet concrete is one such

[ivory aurora]

If i get iron screws ill be happy

[ivory aurora]

speaking of

i used a reroll

Copper rotor ftw i can now make rotors comfortably

[ember fractal]

Congrats

[pastel obsidian]

Quartz Purification i believe

[ashen girder]

Pure recipes too.

[fallen geyser]

You can get leached alts before you have the blender to make sulfuric acid

[spare jolt]

how to get rid of blueprint addiction in satisfactory -chegg -quora

[devout junco]

Does this pump pump the water up the tree or does it need to be closer to the base of the tree for the uplift to come into effect?

[ashen girder]

Embrace it.

[ashen girder]

It would if it were powered.

[devout junco]

awesome, just drafted it up as an example, thank you!

[ashen girder]

Yeah, head lift doesn't care about horizontal distance, only vertical.

So it'll push it up 20m from where it's at.

[toxic hemlock]

Is there any way to see head lift on existing pipes?

/pumps

[spare jolt]

no, but pumps show the headlift they cover

[toxic hemlock]

Yeah ik

[leaden cosmos]

Yeah horizontal distance is infinite. Only vertical above the current point matters.

Could build down 100m and up 115 and the 20m pump will work fine

[ashen girder]

That's certainly the idea. I'm not entirely convinced it holds entirely true, what with junctions nibbling away at head lift.

[leaden cosmos]

They subtract headlift?

[ashen girder]

Sure do. 🤷‍♂️

It's something like 0.5-1.0%, usually negligible.

[leaden cosmos]

Makes me glad rocketfuel is a gas... 72 junctions

[prisma kraken]

something i find useful in building is to run pipes either horizontally or vertically, but not diagonally up so that you can reason easier about where to place pumps

[spare jolt]

how many generators do you have?

[fallen geyser]

Is there a way to mass manufacture ionized fuel for power production in a way that makes it appealing over rocket fuel? Every chain I can come up with uses way more resources and power for not that much overall power gain, if any. Seems like rocket fuel is better for power generation and ionized is mostly for messing around in the jetpack and vehicles.

[mint dew]

@brazen scarab u mean like this

[brazen scarab]

Is this from the 1200/min miner?

Or look directly at the miner's output

[prisma kraken]

it does provide a boost in power, but costs a lot of power. the point of ionized fuel is that it allows you to generate dark matter residue from power shards for other processes and sink them into fuel gens

[brazen scarab]

You can probably look into dark ion fuel, it doesnt need power shards

[prisma kraken]

dark ion fuel is something else entirely as a recipe for eating DM residue and being made in a converter, it lends itself to slooping

[fringe pawn]

Dark ion fuel eats 2.4 times the rocket fuel. And aluminum. It is by no means cheap either, I would argue it's one of the most poorly balanced recipes in the game.

It's like the developers forgot that packaged fuel is twice as much as unpackaged.

[prisma kraken]

the dark ion fuel is pretty sucky of a recipe until you do this to it:

[fringe pawn]

It does produce more compacted coal per unit of rocket fuel I think?

[prisma kraken]

let me check on that

[fringe pawn]

So maybe it fits some weird steel production meta?

[dark lagoon]

It works in practice all the time for me

[fringe pawn]

But compacted steel is a pain, too. Another questionably balanced recipe. It's pretty much worthless in tier 3/4.

[prisma kraken]

with slooping, DIF, you get back more CC than regular recipe

[brazen scarab]

Im wondering why dark ion fuel cant just be done in a refinery with the fluid rocket fuel

Or why time crystals cant be made in constructors

[prisma kraken]

sloop cost is most likely the reason

[fringe pawn]

Same reason as diamonds, they want to make the power cost higher

[prisma kraken]

idk, dark ion is just a weirdly bad recipe

also, when you look at it, remember it takes 2:1 packaged RF

[brazen scarab]

But why do that unnecessarily?

[brazen scarab]

Then the solution is just to halve the requirement

[prisma kraken]

probably sloop cost

[fringe pawn]

Or ficsite in converters instead of foundries. Funny story, I totally tried the foundry first without looking closely at the recipe for that. And then when it didn't work I built an assembler.

[prisma kraken]

i kind of think it's one of those 'lets add more recipes to the new machine' sort of thing

well, i mean, early game accessible machines vs ones that you need to tech up to build

[brazen scarab]

I think why the ficsite, time crystals and diamonds need special machines is that the processes need conditions that can only be created inside those machines, or can only be done by such machines as they involve atomic/subatomic reconfiguration etc

[silent sail]

Ive started in the desert and found 2 Pure Coal nodes, its a good distance away from water but wont be too bad to belt it over. Whats the ratio for water extractors to Pure nodes? havent worked with pure yet so im a little confused.

[brazen scarab]

With mk1 miners, 1 pure node=3 extractors=8 generators

[prisma kraken]

120 coal+360 water in 8 coal generators supplied by 3 water extractors at 100%

8+3 is the magic ratio

[silent sail]

So something like this?

[prisma kraken]

also, if you're looking at the pure nodes in the north DD, you might want to consider using normal coal nodes instead of the pure ones

[silent sail]

Whys that? they're not suuuper far

[unborn ermine]

I end up doing 4 gens on 2 extractors, literally
This was overclocked to feed from 780/min coal.

[prisma kraken]

pure nodes will end up kicking out a lot of coal with mk3 miners later in the game, you might find that useful to use for stuff other than intro power

from the pipeline manual that is pinned in this channel:

[silent sail]

Ah ok that makes sense, dont think there would be enough space in this area for all the water collectors i would need for pure mk3

[prisma kraken]

yeah, usually coal power is used just to get through early game until you get to oil power which jumps your capacity by orders of magnitude

[frosty robin]

what tool is that?

[unborn ermine]

SCIM in the pins

[prisma kraken]

satisfactory-calculator.com's map view

[frosty robin]

ah

thank you!

[prisma kraken]

when i start in DD, i prefer one of these areas (or both) for coal power:

the coal in the upper east corner is a pain to use because of the cliff, but the two spots circled are great

[silent sail]

This is what ive got goin for my area. Started on a pure iron as i couldnt find a decent spot after a bit.

1 - Copper, making Cables and Sheets (was wires, changed it).
2 - Iron, Making screws, plates and rods.
3 - Smart plates or whatever there called
4 - Reinforced iron plates
5 - Motor
6 - Modular Frames
7 - 2 stone farms, not good but they work good enough

Definitely wish i chose a better spot, but overall not too bad where im at

[unborn ermine]

I used the south one for temp power
I was doing Geothermals and remembered I needed more for rocket fuel production

[prisma kraken]

good start, you'll find things start mushrooming in size pretty quickly in phase 2&3

[silent sail]

yea i plan on using the trucks a bit more, as last time i played this game i just used LOOOONG belts

[unborn ermine]

its really easy to get doing that in the desert, especially if you build a big flat platform. (the belts )

[silent sail]

my main platform is just a giant concrete slap wedged into the dunes, really like the look of it but i wanna try and make it look nice when i get stable power and production going

[prisma kraken]

i've been camping out in grass fields & blue crater and trying to use all the stuff there, but am slowly creeping my way into other biomes

trying to use up the last of the blue crater oil atm 🙂

[steep wigeon]

quick question. diluted package fuel and diluted fuel are 2 separate alternate recipes? i just got the blender

[fringe pawn]

Diluted fuel is better if you have the blender.

The packaged variant is only so you can access the same thing pre-aluminum

[steep wigeon]

i am wondering if they are 2 diferent recipes as in do i need to get a hard drive to have the diluted fuel?

[fringe pawn]

Yep, 2 HDDs required to unlock them separately

[steep wigeon]

ah

thanks

[unborn ermine]

So uh Im messing with filling my pipes and changing things around...
looks like I got a slosh loop?

Nothing is using the nitric acid and all I did was add a loop

Its one section of pipe for machines, the other lines are showing zero flow

It will probably stop, but just mildly hilarious to me.

[subtle goblet]

im not sure how this works...
the water byproduct management

from north we get fresh water
i have a central buffer elevated at 6m always 270/400 full
waste water from aluminium and U processing

wouldnt my byproduct machines need a higher headlift?

[pastel obsidian]

It's glorious

[subtle goblet]

i dont think this design works if water extractor and water byproducts are on the same level 🤔

[carmine stump]

Anyone know why the pipe segment going left and right showing 0 flow rate? Full 600 Pipe incoming

second segments to left and right showing 201 flow rate same as first going straight through

[steep wigeon]

out of the turbo fuel recipes, which one is worth using and why

[pastel obsidian]

It depends

[fringe pawn]

Turbo heavy is borderline useless, and is only worth considering if you don't have diluted fuel.

The other two aren't better or worse, just different.

[steep wigeon]

so, i was planning on going the old fuel to turbo fuel after getting the diluted package fuel, but once i got the blender i got the last turbo fuel recipe

[pastel obsidian]

You could look at nitro rocket fuel

[fringe pawn]

If rocket fuel is a consideration, default turbofuel + default rocket fuel are the easiest to balance the compacted coal byproduct of rocket fuel.

[steep wigeon]

i haven't unlock rocket fuel yet. let me look it up

i going to have to pass on that one until i get another hard drive

so, why would one chose the blend turbo fuel over the base turbo fuel recipe then?

i see it out puts more, but what is the challenge to that recipe over the base?

[subtle goblet]

ionized fuel worth it?

[fringe pawn]

Turbo blend is easier, fundamentally it's just sulfur and oil. Base turbo is coal, sulfur, and oil, so you need to route a third resource.

[steep wigeon]

ah.

[hazy dagger]

i really dont think, so consuming power shards just to make extra power doesnt make sense as their is already way more than enough power available using rocket fuel and/or nuclear

[carmine stump]

default turbo fuel uses coal and more sulfur while turbo blend fuel uses more oil, no coal and less sulfur

[subtle goblet]

ionized fuel in jetpack

[steep wigeon]

make sense. in my case that just mean transport sulfur

[carmine stump]

so you trade 540 more oil (turbo blend) for 240 less sulfur and 1140 less coal (default turbo)

*for 3000 rocket fuel

[subtle goblet]

alternatively use darkmatter

[hazy dagger]

yeah but the darkmatter is just inferior than the power shard one, but if it is for jetpack it can be good

[steep wigeon]

yet to unlock. just unlocked the blender

[hazy dagger]

personally i dont bother with ionised fuel, i find rocket fuel powerfull enough for the jetpack

[queen slate]

I'm gonna make it, maybe a small part of general setup, just so this production exists in my world.

[steep wigeon]

and i am at a loss on how to use satisfactory tools and calculator...

[unborn ermine]

It works, the buffer isnt needed though, tested it myself (although I did reorganise some of the parts)
So you could say the buffer is only useful there because they are on the same level.

[ebon girder]

Is there any layout to make some kind of priority merger?

[subtle goblet]

idk
fresh water in: 300/s
random water from aluminium procession
random water from U waste procession
wouldnt fresh water hog all the headlift leaving nothing for the byproducts?

[unborn ermine]

I recommend using the search function on the discord, you will see the plight of everyone asking.

[unborn ermine]

if you watched the video, the input has NO headlift because of the pump.

unpowered pumps zero the headlift.

This setup also works if you feed from below, low enough for the headlift to be at or near zero.

[ebon girder]

So the answer is no 😄

[unborn ermine]

unfortunately, its one of the things people always ask

[ebon girder]

well, I guess I can work around it by inverting the approach and using the overflow function of a smart splitter before a merger and some belt speed bottlenecking

[subtle goblet]

huh really? 🤔

[unborn ermine]

Its mentioned in the video where that image comes from

[pastel obsidian]

There is a mod for it

[subtle goblet]

maybe it didnt click for me the first time watching

meanwhile the video:

and im thinking: couldnt you just elevate the smaller one?

[pastel obsidian]

Test it

[steep wigeon]

Using the blend turbo fuel recipe, the dilute fuel recipe, and the alternate heavy oil recipe to make 585 to 600m of turbo fuel (with a mark 2 miner for sulfer), can someone help me create a layout on satisfactory calculator or tools?

[subtle goblet]

dunno worked for the 2 minutes i ran it

[fringe seal]

imo it entirely depends on your footprint

[steep wigeon]

honestly i am getting lost using the site and having a hard time proceeding from there

[fringe seal]

2 fuel = 1 HOR
3 coke = 1 HOR

[steep wigeon]

what is hor?

[fringe seal]

heavy oil residue

[pastel obsidian]

https:// satisfactoryproductionplanner.com/

there are several tools you can use find what works for you

[fringe seal]

1 blender makes 45 TFuel, 13 blenders make 585 TFuel / min

then you can calculate backwards

[pastel obsidian]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Online_tools

[steep wigeon]

thanks. lost using the site

[fringe seal]

600 TFuel /min means 300 sulfur / min

[edgy leaf]

id recommend satisfactory tools

[edgy leaf]

where are you getting lost?

[steep wigeon]

one how do you change the tier of miners?

[pastel obsidian]

you can replace them

just build it on top

same way you upgrade poles

[steep wigeon]

what tool is this and thanks it much simpler

[wind spade]

in which tool?

[pastel obsidian]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3187030/Satisfactory_Modeler/

Steam

Satisfactory Modeler

Model your Satisfactory builds. Set up your machines however you like, adding optional limits to the number of any of those machines and the tool will calculate how the parts will flow and how many of each machine type are getting used.

▶ Play video

[steep wigeon]

this one

[wind spade]

no idea about that one 🤷

[edgy leaf]

in the game or in satisfactorytools?

[steep wigeon]

satisfactory tools

[edgy leaf]

you dont, as thats not really necessary.

[wind spade]

Satisfactory Tools doesn't have miner tiers, it just shows you amount of raw ore needed

[edgy leaf]

its up to you to decide how you get the resources, a tool cant build the entire factory for you

[steep wigeon]

satisfactory calculator sorry

[edgy leaf]

same thing in that website

[wind spade]

scim shows miners afaik

[edgy leaf]

i mean, its still up to you to decide how u want to get the resources

changing the miner tier in the site doesnt really make a difference

[steep wigeon]

starting from the top, i have 600 crude oil into 20 refinery set up to make 800 heavy oil with resin as a byproduct. the end goal is to maximize the crude oil for the blended turbo fuel recipe. i am lost as to what to do from that. I plan on using the diluted fuel recipe as well

[fringe seal]

then you use this

converting everything to HOR-equivalent, except sulfur

[subtle goblet]

loop is stuck 🤔

[vast jungle]

I can do this easily with Satisfactory Tools... set the limited Oil, activate all recipes, then maximize for Turbofuel... when I want to something more fancy I take the TF amount into a non-maximized calculation sheet

[steep wigeon]

being honest, this make no sense to me. can you break it down?

[vast jungle]

oh, and deactivate SAM input too unless you want to convert stuff 😉

[outer vale]

so... this?

ah wait no, missing diluted fuel

[vast jungle]

looks right...

[fringe seal]

this is how to manually calculate, to be precise

turbo blend fuel takes 15 fuel, 30 HOR, 22.5 coke, 22.5 sulfur per min
sulfur can't be converted to HOR
2 Fuel can be made from 1 HOR
3 Coke can be made from 1 HOR
so after converting, you are left with (15/2) + 30 + (22.5/3) HOR per minutes
45 HOR/minute per blender

[vast jungle]

like I said, switch to non-maximized before experimenting more... because "maximized" can have interested side-effects outside its primary use-case

[fringe seal]

you have 800 heavy oil
800 / 45 = ~17.778
you need ~18 blenders

[vast jungle]

I normally don't use maximize at all but just guess the output and then adjust it if it takes too much input

[fringe seal]

and calculate how much of the HOR needs to be converted to Fuel / Coke

luckily the ratio is easy, 1/6 each

[steep wigeon]

yes. that is what i have been getting lost on. language rather than number is something i am better at. thank you

[fringe seal]

you need to process 133.333 HOR/min for fuel, and 133.333 HOR/min for coke

[fringe seal]

1 diluted fuel takes 50 HOR/min, so 133.333/50 = 2.667
1 coke machine takes 40HOR/min, so 133.333/40 = 3.333

[vast jungle]

number diagramms are very information dense... some people (like me) like it, others not...

but I think its easier to convert from numbers to "described steps" than the other way around

[steep wigeon]

i get lost in the number and can't keep up with them the deeper i am in

[subtle goblet]

how do i debug this system 🤔

[fringe seal]

alu setup?

[vast jungle]

you can try to break them down one by one... start at the resource input and get an idea "how the hell do I mine/get such amount"... then move to the first machine... then to the next connection between machines...

[subtle goblet]

sure

[vast jungle]

don't try to force the "big picture" unless you need it

[fringe seal]

do you absolutely need two water extractors

is it mathed out

[frosty owl]

Step 1: interact with machines showing yellow light to know why they have a yellow light.
Step 2: fix the reason(s) for the yellow light
Step 3: let the system run and be ready to go back to (1) if you see yellow lights

[steep wigeon]

2 input is easier to understand, 3 or more with various needs becomes a bit much

[subtle goblet]

2nd just emulates this

or would you rather work with spaghetti

[fringe seal]

how much does that blender produce

[subtle goblet]

15 water

[fringe seal]

and how much is the first extractor producing

[vast jungle]

Q unless there is a loop involved you can take inputs one by one

[fringe seal]

so 15, 15
30
can I also see the UI pics of the first and second refinery

[subtle goblet]

what 30

[fringe seal]

this is not the first water extractor? the one that is not emulating a blender

[steep wigeon]

well i am going to destroy my factory, and i need a power grind that can take on all that i am able to do with my current phase. plus i want a factory that is always on which is another consideration while upscaling

[frosty owl]

The smoother the power draw, the higher the efficiency, the easier to spot issues

[subtle goblet]

first is 65 water
120+15+65=200 exactly the amount sloppy needs

[fringe seal]

gotcha, it is mathed out

and I assume you have tried emptying the pipe and emptying the water extractors

[subtle goblet]

ig i just needed a full system flush

set up only works if empty

[fringe seal]

if it fills up later then idk
VIP junction in the pipe manual might work

[steep wigeon]

and power is the last thing i want to think about. after i get that taken care of, next on the list is my person pain. trains, from building them to how to set up, just the route and logistics of it, while desciding to got modular or not for the factory.

[subtle goblet]

:|

[fringe seal]

you can drag the water to trashcan

[subtle goblet]

bottle necked again somehow

[frosty owl]

The pump is unneeded and I would suggest merging the byproduct water with the extracted water AFTER having already merged all the extracted water.
Having byproduct water come into the pipe like that rather than using just one junction feels weird to me.

Tbh, I'd just slap a limited valve on the input pipe coming from the Extractor, unlimited valves on the recycled water inputs and add one buffer for the recycled water. Then I'd leave it forever...

[haughty badge]

Do you think the desert is the best place to produce Cooling Systems?

[subtle goblet]

which pump got 2

[frosty owl]

Both 👍

[subtle goblet]

1 must stay

oh right the one after alu didnt get into buffer because of the lift reset

[frosty owl]

Why?

[subtle goblet]

i dont trust valves

[frosty owl]

Do your thing then~

They must've made this post for you @vapid gorge
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/s/VvqPWuDtJx

The comments should interest you

[pastel obsidian]

What's your rational

[subtle goblet]

i like valves to limit flow instead of doing splitting math or limiting extractor but not as backflow preventer

[wind spade]

they suck at that. Valves are mostly not recommended to be used

[frosty owl]

Tbh, I'm not invested enough to try adapt my solution (which I already explained) to other building preferences 🤷‍♂️

[subtle goblet]

also unpowered pump can do this:

100% yay

[vast jungle]

Better start a new factory than destroy and rebuild the old one

[steep wigeon]

more like moving it with trains in mind.

it need to be redone anyways

[haughty badge]

I was just curious what peoples opinions were. There's a nitrogen node out the way in the desert, and plenty of iron/copper/coal

[haughty badge]

Organisation would probably make fixing your problem a lot easier

[subtle goblet]

no

original machines dont even have 100% uptime by design

[pastel obsidian]

There is no wrong answer it just depends on what you have available in your logistics network.

[haughty badge]

I know, I just wondered if there was a better location than others 🙂

In terms of having most, if not all, resources close by.

[haughty badge]

Thanks!

[dim zenith]

how can i adjust the lift thing like this i was building 2 or 3 on top LMAO

[outer vale]

doesn't seem very math or meta-y

especially when I answered you in #satisfactory already 😛

first click places one end, then just aim at where the other end needs to go before clicking again

[dim zenith]

oh yeah didnt see it, just tag me like this np

[steep wigeon]

when using a fluid valve, does it stop the fluid amount from going in that direction? I have a pipe of 400 but i need to break it into 3 section. 2 section are 133 and i want the rest to flow... so do i put in 133 for 2 of the valves?

[outer vale]

they stop a percentage of flow going through

it depends on pipe fullness, and also the values aren't that granular

[steep wigeon]

so if i tell it to stop 130 out of 160, will the remaining 30 go thro?

[thick heart]

can someone help me with this math???

I have 10 lines of 480 sulfur each that feed 4.8 blenders per line. and I have 4800 Fuel which is split into 12 lines of 400.

what's the best way to split up either the sulfur into 12 lines, or the fuel into 10 lines?

I guess how do i split 10 lines of 480 each, into 12 lines of 400?

[vast jungle]

what do you mean with "adjusting"?

[steep wigeon]

your looking to load balance that?

[thick heart]

yea

[vast jungle]

it will just distribute half/half... but then one of the belt blocks (because it doesn't consume half) and the remainder is redistributed to the other belts... its a self-balancing system as long as you provide enough input

[vast jungle]

you could divide each input by six into 80/min, and then merge 5 of them together to get 400...

[thick heart]

oof

that's a lot of work

but I might have to lol

[fringe seal]

smart splitter 10/12 lines, 80x10 leftover
then, merge 5 leftover lines each to create 400x2

[steep wigeon]

so it will restrict the 130 but allow the remaining 30 to go thro?

[vast jungle]

what happens to the 30?

do you have a machine that consumes 30?

[thick heart]

what do u mean smart splitter 10/12 lines.

[fringe seal]

feed 480 to a machine with overflow
you can do it 10 times as there's 10 incoming belts

[vast jungle]

you feed each of the 480 line into a 400 one with a smart-splitter and collect the remainder with an "overflow" belt

[thick heart]

ahh okay I got it thanks

[autumn relic]

what is a typical goal for elevator parts per minute?

[steep wigeon]

well i have a pipe of 400m. i need to break it in to 3 segment which will all be use. 2 of the segment on the same pipe will be broken in to 130 each with the remaining going to the next part.

[vast jungle]

number of items you need divided by time you are willing

[edgy leaf]

ive haerd people talk about using all path signals before, does anyone know hwo something like that would work?

[vast jungle]

as long as ALL attached outputs of your cascade of splitters consume together less or equal the amount you put it, it will will out... some machines will get too much, but then block the input belt, which will redistribute the part...

the only scenario where this will NOT work is if you can consume more than you provide, e.g. by having a container (consume as much as the belt delivers) at the end of a line... in this case your need a "smart splitter" (MAM, Caterium research)

[vast jungle]

all path signals would not work... all path signals except the signal before a train station could work

[steep wigeon]

i am not talking about belt. pipe with valves is what my question are about

[vast jungle]

pipes have no splitters... you just connect them and as long as no machine is too high it works

[steep wigeon]

they do have valves

i want to know how they work

[vast jungle]

forget valves... short story, they don't work as you think... longer story: they are unnecessary

[fringe seal]

you put 133 for all of the valves

at least that's what The Manual says

[edgy leaf]

but would it be a good idea? it sounds like itd end in disasters. i thought path signals are best for small areas of rail where many rails intersect

[steep wigeon]

so they stop that 133 from flowing in that direction or they stop only up to 133 from flowing in that direction?

[vast jungle]

they stop when the machine is full

[fringe seal]

so what I believe would happen if the three branches are (133, 133, unlimited):

[vast jungle]

I don't hink its a good idea, but I am unsure about the details

[steep wigeon]

if so, the remaining is allowed to flow through?

[vast jungle]

there is no such thing as "remander liquid goes there"... that is the way to a disaster 😉

[edgy leaf]

yea same. maybe i misremember, but i thought i heard someone say that its actually better than blocks and paths, somehow

[fringe seal]

the valves somehow "communicate" to each other its flow limit. so it is effectively (133, 133, 600)
then, each valve only allows portion of fluid proportional to its limit: (133/(133+133+600), 133/(133+133+600), 600/(133+133+600)) * (incoming flow)
so, the unlimited pipe ends up taking most of the fluid, and 133 pipes end up starving

I don't know the exact mechanism

but The Manual implies such a mechanism

[fringe seal]

so what I believe would happen:
train "books" the entire path to the next destination, because Path signal.
Other path signals know what path this train will take (because the entire network is one large path block) and approve or disapprove depending on what block a train is passing

[edgy leaf]

u can think of valves as "pushing back" against the fluid, and if theres another way for it to go it will go there instead, because it cant build up enough "pressure"

at laest thats how i view it

[edgy leaf]

yea thats what i thought, but that would cause tons of issues when you have 6 trains doing the same route with a 10 minute round trip time.

there could only ever be 1 train on the route but i have 2 or 3

[fringe seal]

idk. if the path crosses a junction then there is a high probability that another train won't be able to leave station until said junction is cleared

yeah

[vast jungle]

I stay with my advice... if you think you need a valve, you should consider redesigning your factory

[steep wigeon]

well my goal is having the valves block only 2 segement of 133 from going through. what remains can flow to the next segment of pipes

[edgy leaf]

usually my advice is: if you think you need a valve, no you dont. itll just work. if it doesnt, add a pump

im convinced that pumps are actually sacrificial alters wihch can be used to sacrifice energy to the pipe gods

how else do you explain a single pump using 8000000 watts

[fringe seal]

by spamming pumps, you are dividing up your pipeline manifold and therefore making it simpler

[edgy leaf]

well you see, it also works when you put lots of pumps infront of the manifold

[vast jungle]

putting in a valve is worse than putting in a pump ^^

because "restrict to x/min" is difficult with a valve, especially if you are NOT overproducing

[edgy leaf]

i used 8 mk2 pumps infront of my manifold to get it to work correctly

going up, to get 370 meters of headlift. not on flat ground ofc

[steep wigeon]

this is my issue

[edgy leaf]

whats the issue?

[vast jungle]

one pump per pipe should do the same effect than two pumps... unless you need more headlift

[vast jungle]

forget the total numbers... look at what groups of machines need/produce

[edgy leaf]

exactly. you need more headlift. obviously. 50 meters of headlift could neeeveer be enough to move water up 8 meters. 370 is enough though

[vast jungle]

then just connect X outputting machines to Y inputting machines (which consume it all)

[edgy leaf]

the calculator just shows you the ratios and amounts, it doesnt tell you which machines to place where

you can split them up however you want

[vast jungle]

e.g. Look at the "Dilluted Fuel"... you have "2.66" Blenders... so two blenders at 100% and one at 66%... or other similar distributions...

what does one HOR producing machine give you?

[steep wigeon]

i am not going for sphagetti, i am now just trying to find how and where i want pipes and why.

[outer vale]

That looks simple enough, split the HOR refineries into two groups of 400.
One group does the Diluted Fuel, Petroleum Coke, and 133.333 of the Turbo Blend.
The other just all goes into Turbo Blend

[vast jungle]

(because 133+133+133 = ~400)

[outer vale]

(133.33.... + 133.333... + 133.333... == 400 exactly)

[fringe seal]

underclocking to modify the input amounts is incredibly useful at times

[steep wigeon]

if a can take a pipe of 400 and use valve to divide that into 3 segment 2 of which are stopping only 133 from going through i'd like too. one of those 2 will be for fuel, the other for coke, the remainder get mixed in with the other 400 hor going to turbo fuel

[vast jungle]

pipes don't work this way

[outer vale]

they'll stop themselves, by virtue of being full

[steep wigeon]

basically what i am aiming for

[outer vale]

then just do it lol

[edgy leaf]

pipes balance themselves out, just like belts

[outer vale]

you don't need weird valve balancer attempts

[edgy leaf]

you dont need to limit pipe flow.

[vast jungle]

you just need a group of consumers (e.g. all of Diluted Fuel, all of Coke and "some" Turbo Blend) that consumes 400/min

try to think about how many Turbo-Blend (some of them over- or underclocked) you need to consume EXACTLY 400/min

don't solve the problem at the pipes, solve it at the consumer and provider

build groups of consumers that fit exactly to their group of providers... then just build a common pipe between them

[outer vale]

you also potentially have the option of direct feeding, though I don't know the production vs consumption numbers offhand

pipes aren't belts, but you can apply some similar principles to how you connect things up

[fringe seal]

I fucking swear I went through all five stages of grief solely because of mk2 pipes

[vast jungle]

Blended Turbofuel ratings are not easily to "smooth out" with hole numbers

[outer vale]

(but there are a lot of cases where they don't work the same)

[steep wigeon]

yeah and i just now realized my plans slightly need to change.

i'll have to much hor for a MK2 pipe if i combine the hor i am not using in the coke and diluted fuel.

[outer vale]

good thing we said to use two pipes of 400 then eh

[vast jungle]

you should NOT combine the output of all HOR production

[steep wigeon]

that a given

[vast jungle]

then just listen what Meindratheal said... try to think about two groups of 400/min HOR

[steep wigeon]

i just though that i could even out the 533 that was going to the turbo fuel part with what remain of that 400 that i divided into 3

[vast jungle]

producing exactly 533 from factories that produce 40 each is possible with over and underclocking

you don't need to make it exactly 20 refineries that make HOR... you can make it 18 that run full (100%) and a 4-6 that are underclocked so you get the right distribution without thinking about valves

[tired yoke]

In the satisfactorytools.com calculator, where it tells you a power requirement of "X (up to Y)", is X the minimum or the average?

[vast jungle]

you could even build special HOR refinery groups for each desired consumer group...

[fringe seal]

in short: fluid dynamics in satisfactory is unintuitive and valves are especially so

[steep wigeon]

i think i am starting to understand

[vast jungle]

make a HOR production group that outputs 133.333/min... that would be normally 4-5 machines (depending on OC/UC)...
then build two of these groups... connect them

then build a group that produces the 533/min... connect that one too

just don't mix too much... this way you prevent the headache on splitting or designing "mixed consumer" groups

[steep wigeon]

actually this will work out

i keep forgeting that i'll have 2 line of 400. that was my issue

[vast jungle]

you can distribute the stuff in lines anyhow you find useful... 2x400 is just an easy example

e.g. FOUR Blenders for Turbofuel consume exactly HOR at 120/min... as much as THREE Refineries produce.

so you could connect all "full groups of 4" TF Blenders with 3 Refineries...

just find some round numbers that reduce your total problem ^^

[outer vale]

2x400 is definitely where I'd first go, but yeah there are many options for how you set this all up

[outer vale]

so you can do nice round numbers, nice

[vast jungle]

at least for HOR ^^

as soon as you reduce the rest of the problem below 600, its easier

[steep wigeon]

Honestly i have to apologize. something clicked which made me realize i wasted your time, but i might not have if realized it if it wasn't for all of you, so thank you very much.

[vast jungle]

no, you did not waste our time... at least if it clicked now

its often a matter of finding the right perspective... afterwards things get easier

[steep wigeon]

thanks for being respectful. Numbers aren't my thing so i am a bit slower on it than others. also, i took me a while to look at what i already had to understand what i needed. often i get too focused on one thing, because at that time i thought i had a connection.

[vast jungle]

and Turbo-Blended Fuel is a wild network of interconnected numbers ^^

but at least it doesn't contain a loop... these can be wild

[outer vale]

don't show 'em recycled rubber/plastic

[vast jungle]

without a loop its easy to understand... 😉

[outer vale]

yeah sometimes these things just take a moment to click, no worries

[steep wigeon]

i have those recipe. not ready to deal with it yet

[vast jungle]

if you want to experiment with them, keep the numbers smaller and just build more of the solution later 😉

[steep wigeon]

i have a list of thing to tackle, and that isn't on there at the moment. but when i am ready i will

[vast jungle]

but having enough power is a good start

[urban moss]

I ended up doing pure iron into iron pipes

It’s pretty nice. While not perfect 1:1, when I clock the refineries just one time it puts out 97.5 per refinery

Which is close enough to the 100 each on the constructors

The steel rotors idea ended up being pretty great

[pulsar notch]

Glad to hear it

I ended up giving my copper supply a break via using a few alt recipes in my supercomputer line

[vapid gorge]

machine consumption restricts the flow better than valves?

[steep wigeon]

they say valve are useless

[edgy leaf]

because they are.

[steep wigeon]

in my case my number adds up without valves

[vapid gorge]

pretty much

there's some wild and potential set ups that do some odd things that have valves involved

they are however, much less reliable than the non valve methods

so it's better to just go 'don't use valves' unless you're specifically into finding those weird set ups and using them

[edgy leaf]

do machine cycle times get reset on load?

curious

my machines were stalling, i thought it might be because cycle times get reset on load

[vapid gorge]

I'm pretty damn sure they don't, otherwise you'd notice all your machines in clumps get syncronised and I've never seen that

[wintry marlin]

is there a way to flip an entire belt line? i did an oopsie

[violet peak]

I'm currently making 1600 fuel and feeding 80 gens with it. I want to upgrade it to turbo or rocket, but without redoing the setup (i.e. I want to use the fuel as an input, not HOR). If I use the nitro rocket fuel alt, I can do that but end up with Compacted coal as a byproduct. Does it make sense to use that plus a portion of the fuel to make turbofuel, which then goes through the vanilla recipe to make rocket fuel (feeding back a bit more CC), or should I just keep it simple and ship off the CC to use for steel or something?

[vapid gorge]

teh alt is definitely simpler for your purposes. But I'd just go nuclear so you don't have to deal with awful gas in mass manifolds

[violet peak]

what do you mean by the last part? just dealing with lots of pipes?

[vapid gorge]

gas misbehaves a lot, and you'll need to build LOTS of gens

you can manage it but it can be a real pita

especially if you're someone who wants to build fuel towers

[violet peak]

like the gas mechanic causes issues in pipes?

[vapid gorge]

besides, they increased fuel and turbo fuel consumption in the gens specifically to help people avoid building hundreds of fuel gens before going nuclear

[vapid gorge]

depending on how you build it yes. It's very easy to get issues if you don't plan it out with informed design choices

[violet peak]

What's the main gotcha there? I have a decent feel for the limitations of liquids

[carmine stump]

He probably means liquids and not gases

[vapid gorge]

ehh.... a lot of people build the towers I mentioned, which... bad idea

[vapid gorge]

both. Gasses are kinda worse as they have no grav priority

this was never an issue pre 1.0 because you just didn't use nitrogen like that

so if you insist on doing the RF, keep it in smaller manifolds, under the limit by a good margin, if you have multiple floors? dedicated pipe for each floor. Best chances of it working first time

[violet peak]

Main motivations were that I hadn't done anything with rocket/turbo fuel before (I built nukes my last save), and I designed the fuel burning plant to be able to splice in a turbofuel plant between the fuel production and gens

I'm getting close to the point where power will be an issue again, so time to expand. Then time for nukes

[vapid gorge]

fair enough! just keep the two main points in mind. Honestly those are good points for liquid pipes too but maybe even more important for gas

[violet peak]

thanks, wasn't planning on fuel towers, just a flat build with multiple pipes

I got my fuel to fuel gen system running perfectly so at least that part is ok

[vapid gorge]

cool! gl and gn!

[violet peak]

sounds like if I go rocket, it would be best to just ship off the CC for other use or sink it if i'm lazy'

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Rocket_Fuel#Calculating_Compacted_Coal_feedback_loops_for_Turbofuel

[spare jolt]

why the hell is pipe meter all the way in the beginning of the pipe and not on the middle?

[ashen girder]

I bet if you target that for deconstruction that's two pipes.

[spare jolt]

same for others - it should be enough space for pipe meter but it's not here

[ashen girder]

If there's anything in the way when the pipe generates, it won't generate the indicator.

This includes things like power cables.

[ashen girder]

Spunky. 😂

Yeah, that's a new one on me. I've never seen pipes do that.

[cloud tree]

just unlocked the mk3 miner, what a beast

[fierce ruin]

I did similar setup but for RF. Each blender outputs 150 RF uses a mk1 pipe. 14 oil gens at 250% and 1 around 98.8 (idr exactly). I did the loop back method for the pipe and everything worked out great

I did use the alt recipe for RF cause it’s way better

[violet peak]

What do you mean by oil gen?

[fierce ruin]

Oil generator

[ashen girder]

Fuel, probably.

[fierce ruin]

Oh ya fuel my bad

[violet peak]

I was looking at it more and I may need to use the loopback to make some turbo as otherwise it's going to take 1600 sulfur and I only have mk5 belts, so that's at least 3 nodes to tap

or I leave half of it on fuel. Going from fuel to rocket is a huge power boost anyway

[ancient halo]

Is it worth making Ficsit ingots from iron or is it a waste of SAM?

[magic island]

saving SAM is generally the best approach unless you're using very very little of it

I also actually tend to find Aluminum Ficsite most convenient, because I tend to produce aluminum in high volumes before allocating it (due to the finicky production process and all)

so I actually end up having a big supply ready to convert

[wind zinc]

i just calculated how much i need for my fuel power plant:encased beam:17,940
motor:3,900
sheet:26,520
rubber:13,000
quickwire:13,000
cable:3,900
concrete:123,890!!!!
quartz:15,600
oscillator:4,030
iron plate:10,400
wire:79,820
rod:5,200
steel beam:12,090
reinplates:2,080
plastic:5,720
mod frames7,800

[plush gulch]

Have fun lol

[edgy leaf]

thats uhh, modded, right?

[wind zinc]

absolutly NOT

[edgy leaf]

oh wow i really underestimated how much of these things you can do in vanilla

[fervent pond]

Heeheehoohoo 240 fuel generators go

[wind zinc]

the reason its so expensive is because the blueprint im using has batteries and lighting (W signs) built in

[edgy leaf]

OOOH

i thought per minute lmao

wow i should really get some sleep

yea that makes wayy more sense

[wind zinc]

wait you thought i was saying 123 890 concrete/min?

[wind zinc]

is it like 3 am there?

[edgy leaf]

yea the max is 90450/min

the motors are totally doable tho

and the rubber and plastic too. i thought maybe you included parts needed for other parts further down the line as well

in that case i think itd be possible besides the concrete(?)

well the beams and wire might be difficult? im not sure

fun fact, you can make 27632.9 motors per minute technically

[wind zinc]

the oscilators also might not be possible

[wind zinc]

jeez

[edgy leaf]

i didnt even look at the oscillators yet

[edgy leaf]

screws are even more insane imo, you can make over 5 million per minute

the max screw bulid uses up basically all the resources

besides nitrogen, uranium and the tiniest bit of caterium

[wind zinc]

HOLY SHIT

[edgy leaf]

3430 oscillators/min is max

[edgy leaf]

eXACTLY. when im done with this world ill do a max screw run i think

itll be difficult to figure out how much to sacrifice to power, it needs like 500gw and it uses basically all the resources

[edgy leaf]

it mostly uses aluminum to steel beam alt and steelbeam to screw alt

it uses up all the concrete to make aluminum

sulfur gets turned to compacted coal for steel

crude oil to make more concrete and petro coke

caterium gets converted to bauxite and quartz to silica for aluminum

[fallen geyser]

Man the blueprint UI gets so confusing sometimes

I just wasted an hour of work because I assumed opening up the window to pick what subdirectory to save it into actually saved the blueprint, because you click a big plus sign and get a message saying "Blueprint Added!" with an exclamation mark and all

But then if you don't close that window and click the Save button on the main window that doesn't mean anything

By the time I noticed it never actually saved I was already far enough into the next design that the autosaves weren't helpful

[unborn dome]

Yeah they really need to fix it. I've lost stuff like that too.

[fallen geyser]

I sat down to restart the blueprint design, paused for 5 seconds, quit to desktop, and bought + installed the Factorio expansion

[fallen geyser]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergence#Paperclip_maximizer

Since steel is more efficient for the screw making process than iron, and steel can be made with coal, and you can make coal out of biomass, technically it is also optimal to convert all the wildlife into screws

How many extra screws could you get if you add in some extra source of coal to represent you running around like a madman throwing all the flora and fauna into a grinder?

[edgy leaf]

I see you're also a fan of Robert miles?

[fallen geyser]

no actually, who's that?

[edgy leaf]

he does videos on ai safety

[spare jolt]

Twchnically it's not the most screws since you also gotta put sloops into max-per-cycle screw constructors, and maybe also add biocoal and charcoal on top of that

[edgy leaf]

it's really cool

[fallen geyser]

Also this has the issue where it uses up a bunch of sloops that im sure go elsewhere in this supply chain

[ebon girder]

I know this is the wrong channel, but I cannot post pics in the main. Is there a known bug that trucks just stop driving? As you can see in the shot, the map says it's driving, andthere is no exclamation mark in the compass. But the thing is just standing there.

[fallen geyser]

Wait I just did the math and a maxed out + slooped constructor running the Steel Screw alt singlehandedly backs up a mk6 belt

260/min x 2.5 x 2=1300

[edgy leaf]

he also did stuff in instrumental convergence

tho I don't really see how that's relevant to the calculator thingy

[fallen geyser]

Ohh okay I see the relevance

You've made the paperclip maximizer lol

I linked to a subsection of the page

[spare jolt]

"That's a logistical challenge for a player to solve." - Snutt in one of the videos, sorta

[fallen geyser]

The challenge for the player to solve is the soul-searching to find out why they would even try that

[prisma kraken]

they're kind of buggy and sometimes just go off the rails (pun intended), you can either hop in and disable/renable the autopilot and mess w/ it a bit, getting the truck in a better spot or realize like the rest of us that the truck just isn't very good

[spare jolt]

Don't ask "why do that", ask "how do that"

[fallen geyser]

They should add an easter egg where if you do that the extra screws get flung out off to the side of the conveyor as grabbable items

Also make them physics enabled so it crashes the game in seconds

[prisma kraken]

unless you really need the truck's capacity (which is like nearly never), you're better off using its more fuel efficient and manueverable little brother in the tractor

[spare jolt]

A punishment for being the most efficient screw producer, wow

[fallen geyser]

Make it output nuclear pasta lol

Overloading a mk6 belt off one constructor is so funny to me

[fallen geyser]

If you need the truck's capacity you actually need a train

[ebon girder]

Yeah, I realized that a long time ago, but in this playthrough I just wanted to use trucks for the fun of it and the aesthethics. It's something I haven't done in my other savegames. :/

[prisma kraken]

ehhh, maybe if your moving a miners 1200/min to a train

[edgy leaf]

if you need capacity, you need a train. im a trainlover and truckhater

[fallen geyser]

America playthrough where you fully exploit every oil node and use only cars

[edgy leaf]

aw, im doing that but trains

in the past the usa was really good with trains, maybe im just past usa

[prisma kraken]

all vehicles suffer the same derpage, its just the truck is more pronounced with it all

[edgy leaf]

trains are derpfree, thats why i love them

[prisma kraken]

not quite

[fallen geyser]

I'm in Boston, our trains catch fire sometimes

[prisma kraken]

i've caught them doing some funny things, but much less hassle overall

[edgy leaf]

im curious

[edgy leaf]

i mean like, wayyy back when.

[spare jolt]

Only trucks*. With tractors it will probably be Russia or Belarus

[prisma kraken]

when you load a save sometimes they're in a spot where they can't renegotiate signalling properly

[edgy leaf]

O.o

[fallen geyser]

im gonna become one of those RETVRN twitter guys but for a comprehensive rail network across the US

[edgy leaf]

whats a RETVRN

[prisma kraken]

maybe it is fixed now, but the signal state wasn't saved in your save file so it could end up being bizarre when you reload

[fallen geyser]

there are fascist dudes on twitter who talk about how great everything used to be in the past (i.e. when they could be bigots more openly) and say we should "return" to those times, except they stylize it as "RETVRN" to make it look more Classical Roman or whatever

[prisma kraken]

that's one of those things that doesn't really start becoming a manifested issue until you have A LOT of trains

[edgy leaf]

we should RETVRN to the days when twitter didnt exist 😍

[edgy leaf]

im going to have tons of them i think, i have 6 for just one train station

well, two, but ykwim

[prisma kraken]

it's called X now, if you didn't get the memo 😄

[fallen geyser]

elon deadnames his kid, im gonna deadname his website

[spare jolt]

why do we discuss twatter in satisfactory chat

[fallen geyser]

"and-meta" covers a lot

[edgy leaf]

because we're all silly in the head and convos easily drift off course

unlike trains, because they're on rails. 😍

[prisma kraken]

i miss the days when the world wasn't on the internet

[edgy leaf]

i hope my tinybouts can service all the trains ill have if my plan comes to fruition

[fallen geyser]

tinybout = tiny roundabout?

[edgy leaf]

i think the fact that they're tiny should help with that

[edgy leaf]

yes

[fallen geyser]

love that

how tiny we talkin here

[edgy leaf]

they're smaller than the 3x3 turn and use some bugs to work correctly

[prisma kraken]

maybe, a lot of stuff with train signalling, just like concurrent programming is completely opposite of what you'd intuite

[edgy leaf]

well, not the whole roundabout is smaller obvsly, the turns are smaller

[fallen geyser]

isn't a roundabout just one big turn?

or do you mean the entrances and exits from it

like the circle is the same size but the routing into and out of it is more compact? im intrigued

[prisma kraken]

a roundabout is just a N-way intersection with the special property that it can only let a single train pass through, even if there is no rail contention between trains

[fallen geyser]

also @edgy leaf have you played Factorio? their trains are really robust but do some truly cursed stuff

[edgy leaf]

no i couldnt live without 3d

[unborn dome]

They have a demo if you want to try it to see

[edgy leaf]

usually you cant place 4 rails on the same connection but with the H glitch you can, its what i do to build the roundabout

[fallen geyser]

Wait, is that connected to both of those straight lines?

[edgy leaf]

what why did my brain read orange

[fallen geyser]

lmfao

[edgy leaf]

no i just plopped the blueprint down ontop of the other rails to demonstrate

[fallen geyser]

Ohh okay lol

[edgy leaf]

wait ill show it in use

[fallen geyser]

It looks like it should make sense but imagining trains trying to bend that hard is funny

[edgy leaf]

its divided into 4 sections. the two colors on that one side are similar but different

caught a train driving through!

[fallen geyser]

oooooh pretty

Doesn't even look that janky in action tbh

[edgy leaf]

you could divide it into 8 sections to get it even more efficient, but i think the signals look a bit silly..

with blocks so small i think blocks are actually more efficeint than paths, maybe

[edgy leaf]

i ended up going with a roundabout because normal intersections are really annoying with vertical rail

also i think the smallabouts are smaller than normal intersections

[wind spade]

roundabouts are crap in terms of throughput though

[prisma kraken]

i'm not 100% sure of that assertion if you can break the circle up into blocks that allow multiple trains to pass

[wind spade]

best case scenario you have same throughput, but mostly not

classic X junction allows two left-turning trains at the same time, roundabout doesn't

[prisma kraken]

@edgy leaf btw, i was fussing with nuclear numbers and it looks like about the max that can be made is around 3tw with full ficsonium recycling. it's kind of hard to pinpoint the exact number, but it looks like somewhere btw 2.5-3tw you run out of just about everything

[edgy leaf]

without sloops?

[prisma kraken]

with sloops

without sloops, it's much lower

[edgy leaf]

hm

i get 2.54 with not much utilization doing matrices and base uranium

my staistics 101 knowledgei s a bit old so maybe im wrong, but wouldnt linear regression be good for this?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but that isn't as cool

i'm having to do a lot of back tracking through the calculations because all the tools still don't have a 'use sloop' button

[fallen hearth]

Hey just want to make sure I'm not crazy because I'm thinking about this at work. Working on a power plant and I can't implement this until I get home.

I have three 600m³ oil pipes, two 300m³, and one 150m³ for a total of six pipes. I want to split them evenly into six pipes of 425m³ but I have found myself frustrated with understanding fluid mechanics. From what I understand though, what I've drawn out below should work right? I am trying to avoid valves if I can (other than using them to prevent backflow). Sorry for the extremely rudimentary drawing lol

[ebon girder]

The system will even out if you have no bottlenecks where it must go over 600 to equalize

unless you build vertically 🙂

cause gravity

if you have higher up components they get their liquid later

[fallen hearth]

I don't think I have a bottleneck. After this balancer there would be a vertical climb but there would also be pumps.

[ebon girder]

then you just prime the system by letting it fill before the consumption is turned on, and if each branch does not consume more than 425 it should work

or you use valves and limit each branch to 425

[fallen hearth]

At the top of Turbo Tower™ there are six rows of 13.75 heavy oil residue machines. Technically each row only needs 412.5m³ per minute but there shouldn't be a problem over filling it right?

My limiting factor in this build is sulfur and I could reduce one of the extractors by 75m³ but other than saving power there's no compelling reason to do that right?

[amber turret]

so I used satisfactorytools to calculate my factory I want to make but how do you guys actualkly make these kind of numbers? Do you juist take the closest number you can get or am I missing some setting which gives these crazy .xx digits

[fallen hearth]

Did you hit maximize by chance?

[ashen girder]

Focus on the numbers of buildings. So the 3.232x Computer manufacturers, I would just build 4 manufacturers at 80.8% (3.232/4). Then they woudl consume the right amount per minute.

But actually, I just round up. 🤣

I also don't use the numbers from that tool.

I always do the math by hand, working backwards from the last machine, and only use the tools to see which recipes I want to use.

[amber turret]

I did cause I wanted to give the tool my input and then let it calculate what my maximum output would be

this would be a Versatile framework, modular engine, adapte control unit (guess which stage of the space elevator im at xD )

[ashen girder]

Oh. Then take that number, and put it back in. Maximize doesn't optimize anything.

Also never use maximize with multiple products.

It maxmimizes the first product, then sets the rest of them to the same amount IIRC.

[amber turret]

aha

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=la3TsbOpL579ZaRUu0kr

yea this is the one I made

[ashen girder]

Yeah, so you know you can do 4.04 of each. Pick the actual number you want to make of your final products and switch to that.

[amber turret]

aha

yea the limits I have is more in the items, input tab

where I gave it X coal, iron ore etc

[ashen girder]

Yeah, if you switch it to 4/min for each it's much saner numbers.

Still get some adventerous ones though.

[amber turret]

haha yea but thats fine I mean I dont need to be super optimized

I jsut dont want those weird split numbers that are just almost impossible to get to without 60 splitters xD

[ashen girder]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[ashen girder]

You don't need to worry about the splitters. As long as the total on a belt is less than its capacity, it'll balance itself out.

[amber turret]

alright, thanks for the input both 🙂 I will try this out

[ashen girder]

And for this one, I would do 5 assemblers at 99.05%, and 2 assemblers at 99.04%. 😂 If I cared.

[amber turret]

hahaha

[ashen girder]

Just remember, clock speeds are only accurate to 4 decimal places. XX.XXXX% is the most precise you can get.

So 88.45673% gets rounded to 88.4567%.

[amber turret]

yea I'll just use what the tool says

it luckly has those tooltips 😛

[ashen girder]

Easier to do it evenly IMO.

[fallen geyser]

And valve settings only have 254 distinct values and will round down 🙂

[ashen girder]

Definitely relevant. 🙂

[ashen girder]

Set the first one to 97.8412%, then copy paste to all 17 foundries. Saves you a bit of power, too.

[amber turret]

Yea I also read something that pipes technically also only flow like 597 instead of 600 or something along the lines of that?

[fallen geyser]

I didn't say it was relevant I just thought it was funny and never get a chance to mention it otherwise, doesn't detract from your point

[fallen hearth]

That was a bug prior to 1.0 that should be resolved I believe

[amber turret]

ah ok 🙂

[ashen girder]

Yeah. "bug". "resolved". 🤣

Totally not "intended behavior" and "skill issue". Nope. Not at all.

[fringe seal]

doing 600 is fiddly, you need special techniques bc

[ashen girder]

It can be fiddly.

Sometimes it works super great, actually. 😂

Sometimes it requires a substantial amount of goat sacrifice.

[fringe seal]

it is fiddly because the fluid dynamics in the game is "realistic-when-it-wants-to"

[ashen girder]

See, I don't try to explain why it is the way it is. Because I can't access the code, and so far I've yet to be able to actually make any provable statements to cause.

Every explanation I've come up with has some edge case that is absolute nonsense.

[fallen geyser]

I want to look at the code just to figure out why they could only allocate a single byte to valve precision

[ashen girder]

I mean, that's a choice, not a limitation.

[fallen geyser]

It's a bizarre choice for an application where you definitely would expect more than 256 discrete values

[ashen girder]

One of many such things in Fluids, I promise.

[fallen geyser]

Using one more byte for a 16-bit float would let them get step sizes of 0.009 instead of 2.3622

[ashen girder]

Right. They clearly don't want to give people that level of precision.

[fallen geyser]

Well if they didn't want it they'd make the UI make that a bit clearer I think? Also the fact that the step sizes are seemingly random increments determined by the data format and not, like, 2.5 or 5, makes me think this is a technical limitation

It has to have something to do with how it scales when you have hundreds of valves in the world, but I'm at a loss how exactly

[ashen girder]

I mean, I've so far only found one actually valid use for valves at all, and the amount of precision they need for that application is, like, "within 15 or 20 of the target". 😂

Also, don't forget, there's a reason there aren't good ways to artificially constrain belts the same way.

They've very intentionally designed the limitations of these things.

I don't disagree that they should instead use like increments of 2.5 or 5, you're absolutely right, but that's not a technical limitation of any kind I'm aware of.

[fallen geyser]

I get that, it's just extremely weird from a game design perspective to give players a tool like the valve, tell them it works a certain way, and then design it to not actually work that way

[ashen girder]

It does work that way.

[fallen geyser]

The "technical limitation" is the fact that it's 8 bits instead of 16

[ashen girder]

I mean, if you drag the slider instead of typing it in, it can only be set to a valid value.

[fallen geyser]

That's bad UI design then

If they wanted to be consistent it should round to the actual value it's using when you type in a target and hit enter

[ashen girder]

I agree with that, too.

[fallen geyser]

Otherwise you get reddit threads like this

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1g9efad/my_valve_is_clearly_capped_at_60_yet_still_it/

[ashen girder]

It also isn't "severely messing up" their fuel factory. 🤣

That's sort of the other side of the coin: valves just aren't useful in most scenarios people think they're useful in.

[fallen geyser]

And my main gripe here is just that it's downright bizarre to only allocate a single byte to a variable nominally allowed to be between 0 and 600 unless there are HUGE performance issues I'm missing somewhere

That creates issues even without decimals! You can't even do whole numbers!

[ashen girder]

You're gonna really love this. It's a double precision float under the hood. 🤣

[fringe seal]

(my main gripe is that players has to refer to a user-made document to kinda sorta understand the pipes)

[ashen girder]

    
    /** Set the limited flow through this pump. Set this to -1 to use the max limit, i.e. valve is fully opened. [m3/s] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintCallable, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    void SetUserFlowLimit( float rate );

    /** Get the limited flow through this pump. -1 if max is used, i.e. valve is fully opened. [m3/s] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetUserFlowLimit() const { return mUserFlowLimit; }

    /** Get the limited flow through this pump. [m3/s] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetFlowLimit() const;
    
    /** Get the limited flow through this pump in percent of the max. [0,1]  */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetFlowLimitPct() const;

    /** Get the set maximum flow rate through this pump. [m3/s] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetDefaultFlowLimit() const { return mDefaultFlowLimit; }

    /** Get the replicated flow rate through this pump from 0 to MAX in the range. [0,1] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetIndicatorFlowPct() const;

    /** Get the replicated flow rate through this pump. [m^3/s] */
    UFUNCTION( BlueprintPure, Category = "FactoryGame|Pipes|Pump" )
    float GetIndicatorFlow() const;

[fallen geyser]

So the variable we can set is one byte, but it's 8 bytes under the hood

[frank robin]

how to merge vertically (yes it clips in some spots, but hardly noticeable). This one can merge up to 18 belts. xD
why? cuz I'm tired of pulling a heckload of belts from my low-output manufacturers to my storage.

[ashen girder]

Although that code might just be for pumps. Who knows.

[fallen geyser]

It looks valve related, not sure what else "UserFlowLimit" could be referring to

[frank robin]

from front \o/

[ashen girder]

if it is valve related, that would suggest valves implement AFGBuildablePipelinePump which is a whole fun thing by itself. I'm gonna go see if I can validate that.

[fallen geyser]

Or rather, those functions are for pumps, but the Getter and Setter for UserFlowLimit look like they involve a valve

[ashen girder]

There's no headers for Valves, otherwise.

[fallen geyser]

My guess here is that every pipe has a variable tracking its flow limit, which is set to -1 (unlimited) by default. Adding a valve just splits the pipe at that point and creates a new pipe segment after the valve with the flow limit variable set to whatever

[ashen girder]

And, in fact, that block of code contains the only two references to "valve" in the entire set of headers we have.

[fallen geyser]

I'd be interested in seeing where in the code it accounts for flow directionality with valves

Because they would need to be referenced/checked there too, no?

It would probably be somewhere in functions related to passing fluids from one pipe segment to another

[ashen girder]

PipeJunction has a directional concept.

It has both a previous and current, and a positive/negative flow.

[thick heart]

is it better for through put to have block signal at beginning and end of each train station or just beginning

[ashen girder]

Wild. Valves literally are pumps. Wow.

[brisk smelt]

the train station should be a single block

[thick heart]

but wouldn't affect throughput if two trains catch up to each other

[brisk smelt]

in an open system two trains doing the same loop will always end up tailgating each other no matter what

law of entropy 🤷‍♂️

[thick heart]

that doesn't make sense to me tho, like they both spend time stopping at the same stations right?

like obviously you're right but i don't get it

[ashen girder]

You can force them to wait at a station and they won't tailgate.

[brisk smelt]

yeahh but traffic always exists and will manage to fuck it up

[ashen girder]

That, in fact, is the way to achieve optimal throughput.

[brisk smelt]

that is if the loop exists in a closed system

[ashen girder]

It.. doesn't necessarily?

[fallen geyser]

Is PipeJunction referring to just the union of two pipe segments, the +-shaped placeable Junction object, or both?

[ashen girder]

No idea.

To be clear: Valves are FGBuildablePipelinePumps.

[ember fractal]

So valves are pumps that cannot pump?

[brisk smelt]

pump cosplay

[thick heart]

wait so if a train is full, it just goes skips the station I see

[brisk smelt]

eh no

[fallen geyser]

So they're just implemented as pumps that don't create headlift? Is that why they reset headlift (or used to, idk)?

[brisk smelt]

it will still do the load/unload cycle

[ashen girder]

That's my guess.

[brisk smelt]

except absolutely nothing will get loaded

[fallen geyser]

That's hilarious

Wait maybe that's why it's 1 byte

Pumps don't need more than 1 byte for flow limit because the player can't set it

[ashen girder]

I like how you just refuse to accept the answer of "they intentionally limited it that way".

[fallen geyser]

But then they expanded that class into valves and suddenly the players can set it but you don't have the dev time to unfuck everything that would happen if you made it 2 bytes so you fudge the UI

Yes, I do refuse that answer

Releasing a mechanic even though you don't actually want it used and making it broken/unintuitive in subtle ways to discourage its use is awful game design on several levels, they aren't that dumb

[ember fractal]

So, should I use valves or no?

[ashen girder]

Still no.

[ashen girder]

What makes you think they won't want it used?

And what makes you think it's broken? Honestly, as far as I can tell, valves do exactly what valves are supposed to do.

It's just that most people expect them to.. do other things?

[brisk smelt]

no

if you need to use valves your system is designed like shit

[fallen geyser]

People expect them to let through 60m^3/min when they type in 60 and hit Enter, that is not at all unreasonable or their fault

[ashen girder]

Or dealing with recycled fluid from a well head.

[ashen girder]

Okay? You do realize that's not actually the same as "this thing has a specific level of precision"?

CSS, I love them, but UX has never been their strong suit.

Honestly, the bigger crime is why I can have a system that should be doing 600 in Mk2 pipes and just doesn't, and doesn't give me any indication why whatsoever, aside from some pipes not able to stay at 600.

Like, you're picking nits over something that's never off by more than 2, when the UX crimes they've committed are far, far, far worse than that.

[fallen geyser]

It is the same thing when that level of precision is 1. not conveyed anywhere (no, the slider sticking at weird-looking decimal places does not count) and 2. is LESS THAN HALF of what you'd expect for something ranging from 0 to 600

[ashen girder]

I mean, even if you double the precision, it still doesn't land on many, if any, round numbers.

[fallen geyser]

Being off by any amount will eventually cause stuff to run dry if it rounds down and you did your math assuming it, you know, works as advertised

[wind zinc]

ive NEVER had the MK2 pipe bug

[ashen girder]

Good for you! 👏

[wind zinc]

it hits 600 no problem

[fallen geyser]

You don't double the precision. You double the size of the variable from one byte to two, which increases the precision by 256x. You go from step sizes of 2.3622 to 0.009.

[ashen girder]

Yay!

[molten gyro]

When I heard about valves being a byre limit I'm like wtf this is 2024

[fallen geyser]

Yes this is exactly why I'm still harping on it lol it's so bizarre

[molten gyro]

Was it that way in early access?

[fallen geyser]

The only variable that small in a modern game should be, like, a boolean /s

[molten gyro]

Or enums if for whatever reasons they don't want to use actual enums and even then

[fallen geyser]

Oh my god imagine it's an enum table with 256 distinct values

[molten gyro]

Stop

[edgy leaf]

😭

[ashen girder]

Funny enough. 😂 Even at 16-bits of precision.

[edgy leaf]

the loading bug would be enough to cancel that out i think (?)

[ashen girder]

I mean, valves don't need that much precision to begin with.

[edgy leaf]

how hard would it be to represent values as fractions instead of floats?

[fallen geyser]

I would like it if their step size was smaller than 2.3622 or if that was conveyed to the player at all

[edgy leaf]

yea it should at least be a slider that can only move in 2.3622 increments

having it be smooth is super misleading

[fallen geyser]

Floats exist specifically because they're the best way for a computer to represent fractions unfortunately

[ashen girder]

It can.

The slider won't let you pick invalid numbers.

[fallen geyser]

The UI fail is that typing the number and hitting enter doesnt show the rounding it does behind the scenes

[edgy leaf]

best general purpose use case for a computer to represent decimal numbers.

[ashen girder]

That's just... not true. 🤣

[lethal haven]

the real world device it represents is analog, so it looks really jank in game to have float size limitations appear to the player

[molten gyro]

It would have to be used in a calculation that produces a double cause I'm sure the flow rate is that

[ashen girder]

Closer, with "general purpose". But Decimals are better in a lot of general purpose usecases.

[edgy leaf]

im not talking in the valve, i mean for machine cycle times

[ashen girder]

It's already a double.

[ashen girder]

👆

[molten gyro]

The valve flow rate?

[ashen girder]

Yes?

Flow percent, too.

[edgy leaf]

using -1 as a special number
the rust user in my is crying

[fallen geyser]

According to this header, the flow rate limit (that has 1 byte of resoltion) gets cast to an 8-byte double lol

Treated as, not cast

void SetUserFlowLimit( float rate );

[ashen girder]

Funny how your decision to refuse to accept that it might be intentional makes everything else look wrong to you.

[molten gyro]

I can't find the byte declaration

[fallen geyser]

but the getter function just returns a generic "const"

[molten gyro]

Char, I guess

[ashen girder]

Looks like it returns a float to me?

[fallen geyser]

Oh duh I missed the part at the beginning. That makes this even more baffling.

[ashen girder]

No, it doesn't.

[fringe pawn]

Speaking of precision, has anyone figured out where to clock machines for theoretical best precision? Even product number? Even production time? Or is it based off some internal tick figure that's not visually accessible?

[ashen girder]

Clock speed is the only number that's always the right precision.

So that's the number you want to do math off.

Well, I guess cycle time probably too. 😂

[fringe pawn]

I've always figured production time is what everything hinges off of, huh

[fallen geyser]

Yes I literally refuse to accept that they intentionally set the step size for valves to 2.3622 for game balance reasons if a smaller resolution would have worked

[edgy leaf]

@slender cradle what do you think?

[ashen girder]

It's sort of both? You divide the cycle time by the clock speed and you get the new time?

[fallen geyser]

So the conclusion is that a smaller step size either doesn't work for some reason, or there's some technical debt that's not worth dealing with

[edgy leaf]

does the valve flow rate thing have more than 8 bits of precision? idk that language

[ashen girder]

Meanwhile: they're passing around doubles internally.

[molten gyro]

Yeah that's too braindead an engineering decision even if it was somehow for a balance decision. They're better programmers than that

[edgy leaf]

they just want to troll us i think

[molten gyro]

It has to be unintentional

[edgy leaf]

to get us to sacrifice moar goats

[ashen girder]

I can't see how it'd even exist if it was unintentional.

It's not easy to accidentally get 8-bits of integer precision out of a double. 😂

[molten gyro]

Software bugs can be f***ed up

[ashen girder]

I'm well aware.

But they also tend to be fucked up in predictable ways.

[edgy leaf]

yea but ive never heard of it still working but only with 8 bits

[molten gyro]

Not in my experience

[neat bolt]

That... seems surprisingly uncomplicated

[fallen geyser]

My theory is that since valves are coded internally as pumps, that means pumps always had a flow limit variable, but it was just 1 byte and that worked okay since the user couldn't directly set it. But then they expanded the Pump class to include Valves, and then that variable became user-editable, and there were too many functions built assuming the variable was only 1 byte to be worth rewriting.

[edgy leaf]

i mean, power shards are just time crystals and dark matter

[molten gyro]

You can't sink power shards. That adds some complexity back.

[ashen girder]

The real question is.. why can't we restrict flow in pumps. 😦

[edgy leaf]

wait wait wait wiat, valves are internally coded as pumps?

[edgy leaf]

having some personal ionized fuel production for the jetpack whihc u can sink is how i plan to deal with it

[molten gyro]

Or they forgot it was a char

[ashen girder]

Yes.

[edgy leaf]

i think many recipes are dark matter positive (?) so you wouldnt even need the sam. just coal and quartz

[neat bolt]

How so? This entire thing is self contained.

[fallen geyser]

What if it was some jank-ass solution like "0 if unpowered, 1 if mk1 pump, 2 if mk2 pump"

[edgy leaf]

thats. interesting.

[ashen girder]

McGalleon doesn't seem to think so in the other server. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

yea

[neat bolt]

It could be done like that, But I wanted to avoid having to figure that ratio out

[molten gyro]

I believe that

[ashen girder]

I mean. We have the header files.

[edgy leaf]

if you use dark matter trap it can also be dark matter positive

[fallen geyser]

When were valves added?

[ashen girder]

0.3.6.

[edgy leaf]

tug is deep in the lore

[fallen geyser]

I'd be interested in the header files right before that version and right after

[ashen girder]

They were added alongside Mk2 pumps.

[edgy leaf]

i couldnt just pull out a version number like that

[neat bolt]

and then what do I do with it?

[ashen girder]

I had that question about 2 minutes ago. 🤣

[edgy leaf]

use clocking and two recipes so its dark matter neutral

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Patch_0.3.6

[edgy leaf]

or use the dark matter for other things that need it

[neat bolt]

Fair

But: Me lazy

[edgy leaf]

i love making factories depend on eachother, i know its technically not "good" but it makes everything feel so connected and alive

[ashen girder]

Yeah, the only good way to deal with DMR is to balance it in and out.

You can't really overflow it.

[neat bolt]

That and I am unsure if I'll run low on SAM in my world

[edgy leaf]

DMR is horrible, you cant package, train, or VIP it so its literally impossible to VIP or VOP

[ashen girder]

Once you're running, you don't need any SAM for DMR.

[edgy leaf]

same with EPM

[ashen girder]

If you move EPM, I'm going to come find you, and I'm going to fix you.

[edgy leaf]

maybe i want an EPM train, who knows. its easier than moving electricity

[ashen girder]

I fully expect Josh to build a full map EPM train network.

[neat bolt]

I try to keep it reasonable. I have two next to one another. A makes Quickwire for B as a byproduct, and B coke for A as a byproduct again

[ashen girder]

Is it, though?

[neat bolt]

I am hella proud of that

[edgy leaf]

not possible sadly! epm and DMR cant go into trains

[ashen girder]

Since rails literally move electricity? 😂

[edgy leaf]

shhhh dont make my perfect plan look bad