math-and-meta

[unborn dome]

I'm using Heavy Encased Frame, and the ratios are aren't too bad with the single manufacturer OC'd to produce exactly 6.5/min. The concrete/min works out to an exact x.66667, and then my encased industrial pipe assemblers work out to x.33333, which is an amazing coincidence that means I actually need an even-number amount of concrete/min for those two processes.

[unborn ermine]

Arguably?
Encased Frame recipe seems like it was MADE to be used as a Depot + Sink for your extra materials in production

Have every step make a little extra and BAM you have storage + income sorted

[unborn dome]

Literally exactly what I've done with my HMF factory

[magic island]

advanced mode: using suboptimal recipes just to get perfectly clean numbers

using the HOR/poly alt recipes in equal measure gives you precisely the amount of resin needed to make plastic to make containers for default turbofuel, with no excess byproduct.

finally, the use-case for residual plastic

[edgy leaf]

why would u make containers for turbofuel

[magic island]

turbo diamonds

[edgy leaf]

ahh

[distant aurora]

jetpack

[edgy leaf]

forgor about them

[edgy leaf]

biofuel >>> turbofuel for jetpack

[distant aurora]

hard disagree. if im factory building im using a hoverpack

the jetpack is for travel and exploring and turbofuel is strictly better for that

[unborn dome]

Now that I have the hoverpack, the only use I have for jetpack is mainly just jumping off cliffs and bouncing along a really long way by puffing it as I go, so biofuel really seems ideal.

[flint rapids]

Aluminium feels like it is not very demanding and 1200 bauxite early, 2400-3000 bauxite late will be enough for most of the factory, and using the Aluminium "Steel Beams" Alt will not be a burden. Or am I underestimating aluminium demands?

[amber umbra]

Really have to look up the recipes and plan out what you need. Or design in ways that let you scale later.

[heavy gust]

Is Fertile Uranium alt more efficient (higher total power output)?

if yes whats the ratio of uranium i need to put aside for it in relation to what i turn into fuel rods.

i realy dont want to do the math on that one

[spare jolt]

me when
when round numbers

can't show visualization because doesn't fit on the screen

[heavy gust]

im working with a full 1200 belt of uranium and will take it all the way to ficsonium

[spare jolt]

ficsite trigons have left the chat

[edgy leaf]

/insert 120000 word rant about how ficsonium is horrible/

[heavy gust]

i think its a third of the uranium on the map

i dont care, i dont want waste

[spare jolt]

there goes one more who has subdued to ficsit's propaganda of efficiency and non-wasting :(

[heavy gust]

no i just dont want to have to think about waste at all

but i do need the power from plutonium

[spare jolt]

then why not just flush plutonium rods into the sink?

ah

[heavy gust]

because i need power

shit uses a lot of it in 1.0

so no one has the ratio for fertile uranium at hand?

[plucky violet]

I think im confused of how manifolds work.
But it may be math is broken for me xD
Lets say i have 2 mk.2 miners on two normal limestone nodes, one miner is at 65%, together they produce 198 limestone.
My goal is 66 concrete/min.
198 limestone is perfect for that right?
Cause for some reason it acts as if its WAY to much.
I can take 30+ off the last constructor and it still has enough limestone to be filled, this means its getting too much right?
Ik the machines at the start of a manifold clogs, but the very last as well?

[unborn dome]

You can just type the number you want to output into the miner and it'll auto-calculate the % to achieve it.

[plucky violet]

i did

[unborn dome]

Yeah if the entire manifold is getting filled up, you're supplying too much.

[heavy gust]

even then, wouldnt it be better to sink focsonium

[spare jolt]

it cannot be sunk

[heavy gust]

thats a bit random

[ashen girder]

..why would you ever want to though?

[heavy gust]

because i want plutonim power?

[amber jacinth]

It's goodif you're looking to yield high plutonium output. If you just want to get rid of uranium waste, it's less useful.

[ashen girder]

Ok? Why are you sinking ficsonium..?

You just.. burn it?

[spare jolt]

there's not much sense of sinking fisconium

[heavy gust]

ficsonim not the fuel rods

step before fuel rods

[spare jolt]

either can't be sunk

[ashen girder]

Okay, so you're trying to do an end-run past FFRs. 😛

[amber jacinth]

The power you put into making ficsonium doesn't make a lot of sense to sink all that

[heavy gust]

so do you have the ratio of how much i need to save from turning into rods?

[magic island]

if you're making ficsonium you've already built X many nuke plants and hooked them up with water, what's wrong with a few more?

[spare jolt]

you either:
turn urawaste into plutonium and sink it
or
turn urawaste into plutwaste into fisconium and burn it

[plucky violet]

ik where i went wrong with concrete

[ashen girder]

Or turn U.Waste into PFRs and put it in drones.

[spare jolt]

or this^

[ashen girder]

Or turn U.Waste into PFRs, burn it, and store P.Waste somewhere.

[amber jacinth]

Not off the top of my head, no. Are you wanting to max plutonium no-waste or what?

[plucky violet]

i wanted 66 per minute.
And SOMEHOW i assumed constructors made 30/min X'D
Ig they only make 6

[ashen girder]

If you don't want to do FFRs, then you're way better off sinking PFRs and making more UFRs with SAM.

[plucky violet]

100% limestone, + half the constructored needed = clogged demon factory

[heavy gust]

no, i just want a clean solution for a 1200 uranium input belt.
the 2 normal nodes are fairly close together, so i thought id use them both

[amber jacinth]

240 UFR goes brrrrrr

[amber jacinth]

Could do 28.8 UFR & 7.2 PFR for max uranium waste usage

[heavy gust]

ok so if i want to use fertile uranium, i need to get 1.2 times the amount i turn into fuel rods on top

[amber jacinth]

That's using just uranium alts, no plutonium alts btw

[heavy gust]

thats with using infused uranium cell, fuel unit and fertile uranium

[amber jacinth]

Maximum uranium waste removed for minimal resources- other alternative is getting 12.8 PFR using plutonium alts

[amber jacinth]

Just the first two

[heavy gust]

i just did the math

if i have 1200 uranium input and want to use fertile uranium, i need 1440 uranium on top

or fit something with that ratio w ithin the 1200

[obtuse leaf]

is this the place to ask train questions? not how to use the signals in general - but to avoid gridlock situations

[heavy gust]

not exacly fun numbers, maybe ill sink some to make the numbers work better

[plucky violet]

I believe so, ask away 🙂

im sure a smart person will get to you shortly

[unborn dome]

TIL you can do math in this box o_o

[heavy gust]

you didnt know?

thats one of the best features

[obtuse leaf]

super convenient i use it all the time

[unborn dome]

I assumed it was only for looking up stuff in the codex

[heavy gust]

i still used wolfram alpha, dont think this would work ingame

[amber umbra]

You should watch a guide video on trains. Text chat isn’t a good way to learn trains.

[obtuse leaf]

my train question - i have gridlock here. It's just a simple loop coming off the main 2-way track that forms my main network ... i made all the train stations enter from the back to be able to queue at least one train, but after a few hours running smoothly I got this situation

I added more blocks around the train station so both the exiting train and queued train could leave more or less simultaneously, but the additional blocks resulted in a train half-way entering the queue

how do you guys avoid the gridlock?

[amber umbra]

@obtuse leaf That looks like a “safe exit block rule” issue.

Pretty classic deadlock. You needed to signal in a way that prevented the train in the intersection from entering when it couldn’t exit the intersection

[obtuse leaf]

tbh this hasn't been covered in the videos I watched - i understand the basics of block/path and how to use them, but this one escapes me a bit - I'd love if the train could just bypass the station if its got a queue but I don't believe this is possible to set up.

I guess the solution is to ensure that there's at least one full train length after exiting the intersection to the next block sign then. Then he'll still block the main rail line but temporarily vs deadlock

[ashen girder]

You're using path signals?

[amber umbra]

Yea the exit block sized to your largest train is part one. Part two is having enough parking blocks at stations to keep trains from parking on the mainline.

But trains are a lot. So guides are good.

[obtuse leaf]

only for intersections - i used block signals to break up the train station so it could have one train in the station, one queued, and they could move more or less "simultaneously" when the train in station is leaving. I don't think a path signal is appropriate for that as to my understanding a path signal is kind of like multiple blocks in a row that it can reserve in advance, and block other paths from reserving

[obtuse leaf]

do you know of one you like? written or video? everything I've seen is on the basics - a la setting up intersections with block/path signals, how stations work, bidirectional/unidirectional train stations, and setting up filters/timetables etc

when it comes to "fancier" things I haven't yet come across something

[cedar ivy]

this is the right use for paths. it prevents deadlocks by making trains wait outside contestable intersections

[amber umbra]

Toastergaiming trains satisfactory on YouTube was good. Although I had a lot of Factorio train experience.

[obtuse leaf]

the intersection is yes, but I'm referring to queueing

[grand jasper]

moooove you pos

[cedar ivy]

and the fact is, trains are dumb and cant dynamically route. they pick their shortest legal path and stick to it

[ashen girder]

Yeah, you can't queue trains meaningfully.

[amber umbra]

You can’t do parallel stackers like Factorio. Have to do queue in line for parking.

[cedar ivy]

i meant that as, you have the right of paths.

[ember fractal]

Can a single truck transport 1200 ore / m over a distance of 1km?

[cedar ivy]

they're just for keeping intersections clear.

[ashen girder]

Any section of rail clear, actually.

[cedar ivy]

well, yeah

[ashen girder]

Just saying. 😉 They're pretty vital to make bidirectional rail actually functional.

[cedar ivy]

i guess you could do that if you want a train to not stop on a steep incline?

[heavy gust]

man this blows.
just did the math and you cant even turn all the uranium on the map into ficsonium.
Like its not even close.
the amount of SAM you would need is easliy 5x of whats available

[cedar ivy]

but yes- i specifically mean including bi-directional sections as "intersections"

[heavy gust]

im kinda disapointed

[ember fractal]

Slooped?

[ashen girder]

I like specifying because it took me way longer than I care to admit to realize that the long parts of my bidi rail were the "intersections", not the short part where the actual junctions are.

[obtuse leaf]

i guess the method here is to X to two block signals so only if there's no train queued can a train enter the intersection, correct? if there's a train queued, then that signal just beyond the train is red, and if not it's green and he can both enter/exit the intersection

[heavy gust]

ehh mayhaps then its close,
without sloops just taking 1200 uranium through the cycle uses 9k of the available 10k SAM

not to mention the amount of sloops required is also not possible

[ashen girder]

Yes, blocks exiting path blocks should be able to contain your full train.

[ember fractal]

true, I meant in theory, if you had infinite sloops

[cedar ivy]

!wikisearch trains

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=trains

[cedar ivy]

okay i want to know what tutorials on trains are out there

[heavy gust]

im kinda let down that by using "only" 1/3 of the available uranium im already limited by whats on the map

[ashen girder]

Are you still trying to do PFRs?

[ember fractal]

You can turn some of the bauxite into uranium

[heavy gust]

uranium is not the issue

[ember fractal]

What's limiting you?

[heavy gust]

SAM is, there is way too little to deal with that amount of uranium

like WAYY too little

[ember fractal]

Oh

[amber jacinth]

I've found a decent setup for nuclear doing 60/15/75 rods, respectively. It doss require slooped SAM / trigons, but yeah

[ashen girder]

You should specify FFRs, not UFRs.

[obtuse leaf]

you can fix that with mods :\

[heavy gust]

i dont even know what any of these letters mean

i just did the calculations to max out the power from a 1200 uranium belt

[ashen girder]

Here's a hint: "FR" means "Fuel Rod".

[cedar ivy]

okay why are we not linking https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/0/0f/Bi-Directional_Rail_System_Design_1.webp at every turn

[ember fractal]

You should sloop all SAM

[ashen girder]

Because bidi rail is awful and terrible.

[cedar ivy]

No, to answer all the people trying to ask how to do it

not as a suggestion

[ashen girder]

Because the answer is usually "just don't."

[heavy gust]

not enough sloops

https://tenor.com/view/this-sucks-gran-torino-cringe-yikes-no-gif-16574756

[cedar ivy]

More importantly why doesnt the train tutorial have an ordinary unidirectional junction

[obtuse leaf]

it's good if you're just trying to go point A to point B

[ashen girder]

There's enough sloops to sloop 74 constructors.

[obtuse leaf]

but yeah dual-rail FTW

[ember fractal]

Constructors take 1 sloop, there's definitely more than 74 sloops on the map

[amber jacinth]

Max RSAM possible is 5100/min at the cost of 34 sloops. do with that what you will.

[heavy gust]

you would sloop the converters, but still.

i tihnk?

[ashen girder]

There's enough to do both?

[ember fractal]

Nah converters need too many sloops

[ashen girder]

Oh, yeah, they require like 4 don't they.

Yeah, I'd sloop the constructors. 😂

[heavy gust]

uhh if i OC the constructors to 250% slooping might be possible

[ember fractal]

Just OC teh constructors to 250% and sloop them

[amber jacinth]

Always OC for sloopage

[ashen girder]

And, just for posterity's sake: if you're just trying to do big power numbers, you're going to have much better luck making uranium fuel rods and sinking plutonium fuel rods.

[heavy gust]

but still, thats a very large chunk for only working with a third of the uranimum.
im just disapointed

[ember fractal]

Ficsonium is just an option

Not the meta

[heavy gust]

yeah but why does it have to suck

[unborn dome]

Maybe it needs a buff

[heavy gust]

could be fun if it didnt

[ashen girder]

Because they wanted it to suck.

[ashen girder]

How... how is it less fun?

[ember fractal]

It's a way to produce power without generating waste

[heavy gust]

yeah thats fine, but it just sucks way too muich

[ember fractal]

I think that's why its underpowered

[thorn trellis]

Rocket fuel

No waste 👍

[ember fractal]

Rocket fuel is my fav in 1.0

[heavy gust]

i get that it shouldnt be too great, but i feel like its 5x as bad as it should be

[ashen girder]

I say it a lot here. Rocket Fuel needs a nerf and FFRs need way less trigons to make.

[ember fractal]

A 200% OC slooped blender can make 600 rocket fuel. Just a single blender

Not to mention all the compacted coal you also get

[amber jacinth]

Feedback posts exist for bettering ficsonium's Sam usage

[heavy gust]

yeah i gues ill upvote that

[deft lichen]

From what I've seen, rocket fuel makes nuclear power obsolete

[thorn trellis]

I got a question what r all the uses for oil other then plastic rubber and rocket fuel for power or transport fuel

[ashen girder]

Nuclear power's always been unneecssary.

[heavy gust]

got a link at hand?

[fading void]

anyone see anything in this factory i can change to maybe reducce the 62 constructors here?

[unborn dome]

Yeah rocket fuel seems too powerful for its current mats

[ember fractal]

Nuclear is way more complex than rocket

[unborn dome]

Use the encased frame alt

[thorn trellis]

Encased alt don’t use screws man

[amber jacinth]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66f80dcb772a987f4a8d6658

[deft lichen]

But it was reasonably easier to set up than an equivalent TF plant. Now you just have no point, with larger blueprints and the insanely cheap RF cost

[thorn trellis]

Screws = bad

[unborn dome]

Here's my HMF factory - no screws at all

[grand jasper]

guess who just connected their first particle accelerator

[thorn trellis]

Extra of materials too which is goat

[deft lichen]

There are only like 4? default recipes that use screws, avoiding them is easy

[thorn trellis]

That’s wild

[unborn dome]

And basically everything runs off steel pipe and/or wire

[grand jasper]

maybe i shouldnt sloop a 200%OC accelerator

[unborn dome]

The only reason beams are there at all is because it's dumping straight into the dimdepo for mk3 belts

[thorn trellis]

Stator and rotor from pipe and wire

Beams from pipe

Idk the mod frame recipes

[grand jasper]

im going to need an upgrade for my power.

[thorn trellis]

Don’t we all

[grand jasper]

rocket fuel here i come

[unborn dome]

Steeled frame, also uses pipe lol

[ashen girder]

Be bold. Sloop a 250% one instead.

It's only 21GW.

[thorn trellis]

Idk if I’m wrong I’ve seen a particle accelerator use 54 GW

[grand jasper]

oh hey. that would be my whole poer production right now....

[thorn trellis]

Does it actually lmfao

[ashen girder]

In vanilla?

[thorn trellis]

It could’ve been could’ve not been pretty sure it was vanilla

[fading void]

yeah this seems more managable

[unborn dome]

Yup, pipe and reinforced iron plates...which I'm using the stitched alt, so that's more wire again

[ashen girder]

1500MW * 3.35 for 250% OC * 4x for full sloop.

[unborn dome]

Check out the encased industrial pipe alt recipe - cuts out steel beams completely too.

[thorn trellis]

Wire and plates right

What r the other alts I can’t remember

[unborn dome]

For reinforced iron plate? Not sure, I think there's a "bolted" one that uses even more screws?

[thorn trellis]

Yea I swear there was also a rubber one

[fading void]

there is a rubber one but you could pay me 10000000 bucks to ship rubber 1200m to where this will all be setup\

[unborn dome]

And the Steeled Frame recipe lets you make modular frames out of more pipe and reinforced iron plates.

[thorn trellis]

And encased pipe recipe is even more pipe for the encased beam

[fading void]

thanks boys. i think ill run with this. seems less insane now

[unborn dome]

Btw there's the Steel Cast Plate alt too, to make iron plates out of steel and iron ingots. Not sure if that makes it easier for you or not, but it's an option. I only needed a single foundry worth of that.

[thorn trellis]

And u can use iron wire to eliminate copper from the entire production

Up to u

[fading void]

oh i did that already lol

fuck regular wire

[thorn trellis]

The pure iron ingot recipe u don’t HAVE to do

But if u wanna use water that’s up to u

[fading void]

im built right over a lake so its not hard

[unborn dome]

I also used the Wet Concrete alt, to stretch my poor normal limestone node even further, but it needs a refinery.

[thorn trellis]

Nvm then

[thorn trellis]

Might as well do this too

[fading void]

i dont HAVE to but i figure i might aswell have extra iron left over from a pure MK2 node for the later parts for stage 4

[thorn trellis]

In the end up to u what u want to do

So many different ways of doing it

[fading void]

wet concrete is also decent. i do have 2 normal nodes right beside my base that are free

[thorn trellis]

Well u do need em

[fading void]

idk. the initial setup seemed ridiculous

[thorn trellis]

Concrete be required

[fading void]

ive got 200pm automated already. thanks past me

[thorn trellis]

Real

I had like 100 conc per min being automated

Stopped using it and my storages oh my

I did just use like 7k for a small portion of the factory I’m building

So maybe the 60k I had stored will go to good use

If anything I don’t think it’s enough

[fading void]

yeah i have 2 industrial storages and the dim depot with 4 stacks and 60 items pm and if it fills i just let it stop running

[grand jasper]

soooo what is the best way to upgrade to rocket fuel? just the standard recipe?

[unborn dome]

Alt recipe is better imo

Lets you skip the turbofuel step entirely and just dump sulfur and coal in directly.

[grand jasper]

hmm so if i have an exiting fuel factorycan i just feed the fuel from there into a new factory?

[blissful epoch]

heh. im using a alien power augmenter to kickstart a little remote packaged fuel line.

[grand jasper]

hmm then i have to use the comp coal lets see,

[unborn dome]

Can just burn it in a coal power plant, unless you want to make some bonus turbofuel with it

[grand jasper]

hm. could do this. its huge tho

[unborn dome]

Just to note, one rocket fuel blender on that alt recipe is enough to power 36 fuel generators. Not sure how big you're planning on going here.

[grand jasper]

i dont think i should go all out here. i think i can think of a power amount i want. get the generator number and then see how much fuel i convert

how much power are 36 fuel gens?

[unborn ermine]

Yeah like i just dedicated 2 pure nodes of oil + the one mk5 belt of sulphur from the gold coast for rocket fuel.

[ember fractal]

Will a refinery be able to push water up this high?

[unborn dome]

Iirc 250 MW each?

Yeah 250

[fringe seal]

10m from the bottom iirc

[unborn ermine]

36 x 250
or
14.4 x 625 overclocked.

[ember fractal]

ok, so maybe not

[unborn ermine]

from the pipe exit.

[unborn dome]

Is there any reason not to OC a fuel generator, aside from it needing power shards?

[cedar ivy]

No, it needing power shards is the only downside

[unborn ermine]

just being limited by what the pipe can hold.

[cedar ivy]

it's linear, and you'll be trying produce that much fuel anyways

[unborn ermine]

My setup soon, will need 700ish shards for the gens

[unborn ermine]

also going to be using this probably to make my life easier
(thanks to Red Maw)
#design-and-architecture message

if you scroll down a bit you can see how he does micro pipe fitting.

[thorn trellis]

Is that the best recipe for it

[unborn dome]

It's the only alt it has. The default recipe takes turbofuel and nitric acid instead.

[thorn trellis]

So it’s worse

[unborn dome]

I'd consider the default worse, yeah, since you need to get turbofuel first

[thorn trellis]

It’s nice to have the comp coal as a byproduct for more power

[unborn dome]

Or if you have any spare fuel or HOR, you can make turbofuel out of the compacted coal to package or burn too.

[unborn ermine]

Default is great IF you follow the steps to get the turbo recipe done right.

like im only using 780 sulphur to net 144000 power in the end + 100/min packaged.

this is my general plan, I dont think much has changed yet.

rn I just have to do the acid and the blenders for the rocket fuel, then its generator time

(oh and the aluminum for packaged but thats a whole other thing)

[unborn dome]

Wow that's a lotta pipes

Guessing you're doing rubber/plastic at another factory?

[unborn ermine]

Right next to it

gold coast ftw

still havent touched the resource well there btw

[unborn dome]

Oh right it has that new nitrogen node up high, doesn't it?

[blissful epoch]

heh. having the resources for a locomotive sit in dimensional storage means you never have to wait for the next train

[unborn ermine]

Yeah I made a gross pipeline

[fading void]

how far did you belt that sulfur from lmao

[unborn ermine]

The train line will be for copper -> Aluminum factory
Theres belts in there too

[fading void]

god damn

[unborn ermine]

I just have to figure out how I want that copper higher, the aluminum is being made on the arch

The 300/min oil supplying petrol coke for scrap, logistics werent planned well.

The side where the sulphur is comming from too?
Thats supplying the plates for nitric acid atm
I want to have the power systems be basic as can be so it cant be done wrong.

going to be a factory for HMF for eventual Fused Frames.

[neat bolt]

So do I see it right that Nitro Rocket fuel is the best?

[unborn dome]

Imo yes, but there's valid use-cases for the default recipe too, as was demonstrated here.

[unborn ermine]

The belts are funny as hell, using 6 of them for my things here. (just waiting for lighting to change, excuse the potato graphics)
The rail so far

I will say its nice having belts in the middle for a zippy run back and forth

Could do tubes, but thats extra work and thought

[merry lintel]

im screwed if i dont have any pumps on those pipelines?

its fully horizontal, except the bits off the main pipeline that are on extractors levels

or will it work properly and transport oil to the most left point even without any pumps in the system

[unborn ermine]

Depends what the pipeline is for? This works because gasses. Fluids might need a few pumps if you have issues with the supply at the far end.

[merry lintel]

its oil pipeline, not sure about the supply issues as for now i have nothing on the left end connected to the pipes

[unborn ermine]

An initial pump at best-worst case scenario.

[merry lintel]

how many pumps/how often should i put if i need to

[unborn ermine]

I would see if it plays nice first.

[merry lintel]

because its tighly packed 6 pipes, i really dont want to have to place pumps in it lmao

[unborn ermine]

its a bit of work setting pumps, and waiting for pipes to refil.

[merry lintel]

for now i connected a couple fully and it seems to work, just takes a bit of time for the oil to reach the ending point

without pumps

(quite a bit)

[unborn ermine]

Yeah as a few people mentioned before, you can clock some machines down a % or so, and let their internal buffers and pipes fill.

once filled then clock to normal.

[merry lintel]

so if i let the entire pipeline fill up fully first will it keep on working?

[neat bolt]

How is this plan? Huge rocket fuel factory at this place seemed like a good choice, ngl.

[unborn ermine]

if it has no issues yes.

[merry lintel]

alright ill try that

if not then pumps it is

[neat bolt]

Honestly, the gas filters in that factory was a spur of the moment idea, but I already had all the stuff there, and making some consumeables sounded like a good idea

[unborn ermine]

Wouldnt be too bad either making Ionised Filters later, just a short trip/belt depending to a probable aluminum plant.

[teal ice]

I hate pipes... wish there was an alternative to fuel generation that didn't involve pipes...

[neat bolt]

I am stuffing the filters on a drone probably to go to the main hub

[unborn ermine]

Package and belt EVERYTHING

[neat bolt]

I honestly don't get all the issues you all have with pipes

For me they are well behaved

[teal ice]

well if you saw my build you'd understand... my pipes never fill up and are always sloshing... I know its something I'm doing and I've read the manual alot... still doesn't make sense to me why my pipes aren't filling properly

[neat bolt]

If input < output they will not fill

Just try to leave a little headroom, instead of running pipes at their max spec, run an additional one to take some load off of them

[unborn ermine]

Loops too, once you do loops things seem to work differently

[amber umbra]

Did someone say pipes???

[neat bolt]

Rule 1 in engineering: Never run things at their design limit constantly

[tidal dock]

I use that spot for Rocket Fuel and support Factory to deal with parts that need for Uranium and Plutonium Rod.

[neat bolt]

Especially pipes I'd rather way overspec than underspec

[neat bolt]

Also, after a bit of fiddling I now have both :D

I got a factory nearby that makes quickwire as part of normal operation anyway, some tweaking and there will be enough excess for this

The boxes it needs I'll just ship by drone

That place will have a lot of drone ports anyway to get rocket fuel to all the other drone ports

Wait

Do drone ports take liquid or packaged fuel

And if they take packaged, do I need to deal with the canisters after?

[amber umbra]

Needs packaged fuels. Drones eat the packages.

[unborn ermine]

Dont forget to make a surplus supply of materals + inputs for a depot!
Especially if you are planning Rocket Fuel + Generators

I need to set something up for concrete, might be ok for quickwire. having 2x depots filling.

[neat bolt]

Great, so now I need to also make stomach medicine for drones :P

[neat bolt]

Well, that thing will mostly output the filters into depots (overflow gets sink'd)

Other than that, perhaps packaged rocket fuel in the depot might be good for jumpstarting a drone port

What is the power consumption of drones like?

[unborn ermine]

Oh I mean building the gens
you will need a LOT if you plan for big numbers.

[neat bolt]

Ah frick

Rocket fuel needs tanks, not packages

So the plastic I got there won't help

So I gotta make a train bringing in aluminum at 480/min

Oh

Oh

that... is a lot...

[unborn ermine]

Now, SHARD that

[neat bolt]

I'll have to shard the shit out of that XD

[unborn ermine]

Mine only uses 700ish shards, and I have 576 base gens

[neat bolt]

well then

526 gens with 3 shards each

That is more than all the shards you get from blue slugs.

Even taking into account slooping

Yikes.

But that should be plenty power for things, right?

[unborn ermine]

Its not too bad for shards.
Ive got ~2000+ atm from slooping as early as I could.

[neat bolt]

The packaged rocket fuel will be shipped out for drones everywhere.

To be fair, shards are also no longer limited.

[unborn ermine]

Oh and +50 for each slug in storage

Thats end game tho

Being in early phase 4 👀

[neat bolt]

Yes, and while that would use up a significant amount of the natural slugs, it would leave us with enough

[unborn ermine]

Not too-too bad.

Some people have cleared the map

this is just from running around for sloops and mercers while doing HD collecting

[neat bolt]

I got a fren for that

Always get yourself an unpaid intern

[spiral wigeon]

how do i use synthetic power shards in SCIM

[neat bolt]

What do you mean?

[spiral wigeon]

The recipe isnt showing up, its using slugs

[cerulean stratus]

I wonder how items per min translates to km/h

ah the wiki has that already

interesting. Trains can serve as a faster transportation method than belts, if you crouch jump on them

[unborn ermine]

iirc you need to input some of the byproduct material, Dark Matter Residue(?)
just like when doing plutonium stuff.

Oh wait im thinking Tools, its kinda the same?

[neat bolt]

That is why I dislike SCIM

And prefer Runesun

It just does what I ask

Not what it thinks is what I want.

[unborn ermine]

Do you have to input things manually though? I sat there for a few minutes trying to get my tools thing set and I got fed up.

[neat bolt]

Espeically as I found no way to get SCIM to actually use 2 different recipes in the same production line

[neat bolt]

I input most things manually, once you have the endproducts listed, you can just click on the required inputs and add something

Me clicking on the quickwire.

It is a lot more manual, but gives you very fine control

[unborn ermine]

Maybe its just user error yeah, too used to Tools just working cleanly with little fiddling on my part.

[neat bolt]

I dislike tools and SCIM as they try to hand hold me too much

I want to figure things out myself

[unborn ermine]

I like the clean UI for dealing with endless numbers.
Eases the mind numbing nature of it.

[grand jasper]

this works until you hit certain points i guess. wouldve never figured this out for turbo motors + pressure cubes

[ashen girder]

Tools isn't hand holding, it's just solving a problem. It's useful if you keep that in mind.

[unborn ermine]

I cut stuff up like that, different production steps = new tab.

[neat bolt]

In a game that is all about solving production problems, imo, it is taking the main gameplay away from me

This is not a slight against anyone who uses it, far from it. I just personally don't like it

[ashen girder]

That's like being upset that a calculator is doing math for you.

[unborn dome]

Something like this was my plan too - I put motors and HMF in the same factory, assuming I could build fused frames/pressure cubes/turbomotors on an additional floor.

[grand jasper]

for me its the logistics that need solving. not the recipes. but everyone can play this game how they like

[unborn ermine]

Well, one tab like that actually, then each extra tab has its own large thing, then the main tab gets updated with just an input of the semi final product.

[unborn dome]

Yeah for me it's the logistics and nicely routing belts and stuff so they don't clip

[neat bolt]

If I am there to do the math and find enjoyment in it? Then yes, I would be upset XD

It is all situational, Tugboat

[grand jasper]

can just put them as an extra output if they are in the recipes already and it should only increase input

[unborn dome]

I don't care much for the math, because I tend to make dumb errors when I do it myself, but I also don't begrudge the people who do want to work it out themselves.

[astral warren]

I do this too when some input chains get complicated to read in Tools

[neat bolt]

Its a mix of both to me. But yeah, to each their own.

[ashen girder]

I mean, that's the thing.. tools isn't solving the recipes for you.

It's telling you what recipes would make the optimal use of the entire map.

[grand jasper]

then pasta comes around and my problem suddenly becomes power lmao

[ashen girder]

That's not actually a question most players need answered.

[cerulean stratus]

honestly I'd go foundries

[unborn dome]

What about that copper alloy alt? Does that use less machines?

[cerulean stratus]

they're just easier to work with

[cerulean stratus]

it uses less machines

[robust vessel]

My face when I discover that my Tier 5 factory isn't running up to full spec because I never connected the output on 2 wire constructors way back when I was working on Tier 3 stuff ~100 hours ago

[unborn ermine]

More machines + surplus iron instead, less copper but less ... refineries

[unborn dome]

I've heard people sloop their copper powder constructors too, since it only takes one sloop each.

[cerulean stratus]

copper alloy makes 100 per min, pure copper makes... 37.5

so less machines

[unborn ermine]

Speed dosent mean much when scaled

thats why I said more machines

Oh wait

[grand jasper]

Congratulations you already agree

[unborn ermine]

I have that backwards, still technically right

[grand jasper]

I like the look of refinery clusters lol

[ashen girder]

I have a blueprint that's 40 smelters in a hut. It's handy.

[cerulean stratus]

funny how copper alloy is a noob trap

[unborn ermine]

I just am not looking at the numbers so my brain isnt processing this atm.

[grand jasper]

The power issue there is also not the refineries it's the damn accelerators 😄

[cerulean stratus]

I had that too, pretty convenient.
Pop in one of those at a copper node, put all the powder into a truck station, and then have a tractor collecting all of that

[grand jasper]

I need this. I still have my baby smelter array with 8 smelty Bois to pop down. But that was power crept by MK3 miners

[ashen girder]

The alloys work super well together, that's the real trick.

[unborn dome]

Why's it a trap?

[ashen girder]

Pure's the real trap. 👀

[cerulean stratus]

oh wait I said alloys the trap?

my bad, I meant the pure

[umbral pecan]

yooo currently running 12 coal gens

[unborn ermine]

SEE backwards!
Its contagious im sorry

[thorn trellis]

Indeed

[cerulean stratus]

the alloy recipes are just awesome

[umbral pecan]

jesus

[neat bolt]

How so?

[unborn dome]

Iron alloy is a huge reason why I was able to make my HMF factory run off a single pure iron node (and a normal copper)

[thorn trellis]

That’s half of the ones for the oil I’m processing

[grand jasper]

I'm dreading my turbo fuel plant right now. 3 blenders for ... 108 gennies. I need more shards.

[unborn ermine]

Avoiding using excess iron you may just avoid using altogether.

[thorn trellis]

And that’s just oil which is 148 refineries

[umbral pecan]

thats a lot

[thorn trellis]

My total amount when the factory is done is gonna be like

400+

Maybe 500

[neat bolt]

Hmm, good point, better to fully use the nodes I got instead of less usage but more water

[umbral pecan]

question how would i got about making piping of water more effiecent

[neat bolt]

You know what I wish we had in the interactive map?

[thorn trellis]

Looping the pipes is one way

[umbral pecan]

ah fair

[neat bolt]

The ability to select an area and instantly see how many resources I can get out of the nodes in the area

[umbral pecan]

you might not like what im going to say but im using 10 extrators for 14 to 16 coal gens

[thorn trellis]

Why?

[unborn dome]

Three extractors per eight generators is the ideal ratio, but mk1 pipes can't transfer all that water at once.

[thorn trellis]

Can also do 4 per 8

Makes numbers easiest

[neat bolt]

Well, time to get a piece of paper and do maths

[thorn trellis]

But 3 to 8 obv is best

[umbral pecan]

fair, however im going to be expanding to more coal gens

[unborn dome]

With mk1 pipes, you have to do something like [4 gens] <- [3 extractors] -> [4 more gens]

[vapid gorge]

so build more groups later.

[umbral pecan]

however this does look good

[unborn dome]

Yep, that's what I did. I originally made four rows of four generators each, and built all three pumps at the end of the row. Once I unlocked mk2 pipes, I built the other four generators in each row.

[heavy gust]

after finding out ficsonium sucks i have decided to do rocket fuel instead.
Almost zero logistical challenges, easy to plan.

[thorn trellis]

Have a question I know valves r ass but what exactly do they do

[vapid gorge]

just. do. nuclear.

[unborn dome]

Like this

[umbral pecan]

do you think i should redesign?

[vapid gorge]

you can, technically, once the pipes are actually full, restrict flow

before that the they won't put out the properly flow

The main issue is that the machines consuming the fluid, will also restrict flow

[heavy gust]

uhhhh no?
sure its only half the power of the nuclear setup, but also uses way less for operation.

[unborn ermine]

Honestly I prefer the lower foundation below the pipes and a clean junction between the extractors

[vapid gorge]

and infinite ugly gens.

[heavy gust]

beats whatever the fuck that is

[umbral pecan]

well i need to redesign anyways

[vapid gorge]

plus you're probably going to make fuel towers, which work like ass

[heavy gust]

i would do nuclear if ficsonium wasnt hot garbage

[vapid gorge]

nothing forces you to do ficsonium

[heavy gust]

me, its me who forces myself

[vapid gorge]

that is the nearly the dumbest thing I've read on this server

[heavy gust]

im either doing a complete and clean solution or im not doing nuclear at all

[vapid gorge]

sink plutonium rods

[heavy gust]

and since ficsonium sucks ass

im not doin it

[vapid gorge]

or use p rods in trucks and drones

[unborn dome]

Or just do less ficsonium instead of all of it?

[heavy gust]

then i ahve waste wich i wont tolerate

[thorn trellis]

I saw some vid showing the use of them to effectively get 600 fluid per min out of a node

[vapid gorge]

you don't get waste from sinking p rods or usign them in vehicles

[heavy gust]

and if i sonk the plutonium its not even more power than the fuel gens

[thorn trellis]

Idk if this is true or like

[heavy gust]

so why even bother

[vapid gorge]

you can do that w/o a valve?

do you have that link? xD

[neat bolt]

Oh goodie

So I followed the advice, and ditched pure ingots where I could

It went from having significant headroom on all ores to just barely being enough.

Here's the output

R. Plates, Pipes, and Ingots get Sink'd

[thorn trellis]

I may or may not hold on

[neat bolt]

Though I never exceeded a 200 overclock on the impure nodes, which is what I wanted to avoid, as overclocking impures is a last resort

[thorn trellis]

Nope don’t have it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMG9f-HKfHk @vapid gorge

Nvm I found it

Posted 1 day ago is funny tho

From what I’ve heard from people here tho

It tells me this is probably not true

[neat bolt]

I just have a little bit of headroom in all my pipes

you know, try to pull 590 instead of 600

Means a little issue won't end everything

's why I don't include impure oil nodes in my calculations, I use them to provide that additional capacity

Sure, it means I loose efficiency, but I get to keep my sanity in return :3

[thorn trellis]

I try to get the max I can out of them

[neat bolt]

Yeah, and while I agree that there too many issues on that to call it 'working completely fine', I am willing to concede some efficiency to have it work

I do hope for a fluid rework, some day, but until then... shrug

[unborn ermine]

I see valves, this might be false hope

[neat bolt]

Honestly, CSS could probably just make the pipes allow 610 to flow under the hood, without telling us, and it'd probably be enough of a bandaid XD

[unborn ermine]

600.5

[neat bolt]

Shh

No numbers like that

Why do you think I gotta sink so many ingots XD

[unborn ermine]

Oh you mean 600.333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333/min

got it

[neat bolt]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

https://tenor.com/view/evangelion-gif-23750376

[thorn trellis]

I know but we haven’t tried it yet so idk

[neat bolt]

just try it in a creative world

easy enough to verify this one

[thorn trellis]

I think the video is trying it out

I didn’t watch the whole thing

[unborn ermine]

Wait no, actually 600.66~ because it would be retroactive change to mk1 pipes at 300.33~

[amber jacinth]

Ah yes, a 0.111111111% tolerance on pipes

[thorn trellis]

I mean cobalt would that work

[unborn ermine]

Tbf there is a slight buffer% in each pipe that isnt seen visually.
(saw that mentioned in here)

[amber jacinth]

Hmmm

[umbral pecan]

ok so i have fixed the coal gen

4 extrators to 4 gens

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's a lot of nonsense

[thorn trellis]

Thought so

Well if valves worked would make sense but they don’t so oh well

[vapid gorge]

running pipes at 590 isn't a solution either. you can have sloshing at much lower rates than 600

[thorn trellis]

What’s an efficient way then

[vapid gorge]

just loop the manifold and flood it

literally it.

[thorn trellis]

Flood before use I assume u mean

[vapid gorge]

run the system but with a few machines down clocked so you're over feeding.

do that until every machine and pipe is full, then upclock again

[thorn trellis]

Would turning one on at a time also work

[vapid gorge]

not really as machines won't accept inputs if turned off

[thorn trellis]

I just pray my massive amount of refineries will work

[vapid gorge]

(except for generators)

I've also seen that very long manifolds 22+ might not be able to handle the sloshing even with a loop and flood.

I'm guessing too many points of sloshing too far away from the input sides

[thorn trellis]

Mine r 10

And for collecting its 15

[vapid gorge]

loop and flood, you'll be fine

[thorn trellis]

Goat

[past reef]

Can sloop the output machine together with turning off and on

[brisk smelt]

overengineered fluid logisitcs... 😭

[past reef]

A full pipe system will have more than 50 m3 to instantly fill the machine

Keep the sloop until output machine is backed up with fluid then you can take it out

[vapid gorge]

you still don't want sudden massive suction out of hte pipe

you want the pipes as fulil as possible. Just down clock like 3 machines to 1%, jfc

[past reef]

slooping forces temporary surplus for the pipes, its brief anyways

When the output machine starts to back up every single pipes must be full

[vapid gorge]

doesn't help if it goes over the limit.

[past reef]

Isnt the goal to minimise the downtime between starting up a manifolded fluid system

A combination of more production and less consumption would do the job faster

[vapid gorge]

no, it's to get a completely flooded system with as few hitches as possible and least wank

so putting a bunch of machines to 1%

[fringe pawn]

I overclocked and slooped rocket fuel for a little bit to flood the system, that juiced it right up.

[past reef]

Then a slooped output would completely flood the system faster?

Probably depend on recipe too, my system only have 2 max output into manifold, so slooping is faster than 1%

[fringe pawn]

With solids I just build an ISC and let the prior ingredients build up, but that's harder with fluids because buffs can be wonky. Emptying out a fluid buffer to forcefeed newly hooked up machines to fill their buffers isn't much of a thing.

[past reef]

Buffer could be okay but then a long pipe is 20% of that and it doesnt have forced output property like machine produced liquid

Setting up with buffer still need the manual step of slooping/low output to completely flood the system sadly

[unborn ermine]

I guess thats where slooping and lower manifold sizes shine.

[unborn ermine]

Im dumb and didnt scroll, mouse is dying.

(it scrolls, but it sometimes moves up a tick by itself, so it leaves chat high)

[neat bolt]

I doubt the pipe can slosh when it is completely full? What I meant is putting in 600 but only pulling out 590. I maintain that sloshing should be a bug in its current state, as the looping is something that is just... weird. But that is just my opinion.

[wind spade]

If you remove fluid from middle (which pipe manifolds do), it can definitely backflow/slosh

[neat bolt]

<-< and sloshing never stops iirc

Because adding a dampening factor to it would be too... realistic ig.

Idk, the pipe system in this game is just weird.

[amber umbra]

@neat bolt The 600 fluid/minute pipe thing, I personally consider it a "bug" or "not optimal behavior". It is a contencious topic. My main argument is that 300 fluid/minute pipes not having the same behavior pushes it toward a bug.

[neat bolt]

Exactly

Idk why people object to that

[unborn ermine]

Depending on the system iirc, its just lower and lower visible "volume" as pipes fill,
This is why it can stabilise, with that extra hidden % buffer in the pipes.

[neat bolt]

<.<

[brisk smelt]

im so lost... 3000 out, 2880 in, 5 through pipes, no throughput exceeding... yet scrap referies are gettin starved

[amber umbra]

Cobalt hairs greying. The above breaks the "keep piping simple" rule.

[neat bolt]

And it is not feeding from above

[amber umbra]

I consider identical height also fine for pipes. Doesn't inherently need to be strictly above.

[neat bolt]

It helps supposedly

[plucky violet]

Does it seem cheaty to fill manifold filling inputs with items? xD

[amber umbra]

Nah, manually "priming" your manifolds is fine. It's a relatively common practice based on mentions here.

[brisk smelt]

simple does not work, the across pipework is for load distribution

[neat bolt]

But again, working with mk2 pipes in this game feels like dealing with a creature from folklore

[plucky violet]

good, my whole factory is so broken to the point if anything appears to be getting netpositivie i fill that slot's manifold input like "YES! DO MORE OF THAT! :D"

[neat bolt]

If you don't follow the rituals, it will haunt you in your dreams and ruin everything

[amber umbra]

I've been watching the CohhCarnage Satisfactory 1.0 playthrough. He finally got to the "why do my fluids not work" around episode 200; he was pretty annoyed.

Ended up being bottom feeding Al refineries as the main issue. Was also trying to do 600 fluid/minute but I think his build wasn't crisp enough to notice that bug.

[nova jungle]

this is what I came looking for LOL my crude oil power plant fluctuates like crazy

[plucky violet]

I can solve any fluid problem with 1 word.
PUMPS!
the same ol fix all engrgy as diy projects and duct tape/hot glue

[amber umbra]

I do find it interesting, unfortunate that the power graph is displayed as power vs time as it especially highlights any power fluctuation. Really puts the 600 fluid/minute bug in full view for many people.

[nova jungle]

Yeah pumps definitely didn't fix my problem

[plucky violet]

Have you considered enough wasnt used?

[wind spade]

bug intended behavior

[plucky violet]

More can always be used

[nova jungle]

you're right

might need to spread them every 10 m for max efficiency. thanks!

[jagged vortex]

You think 10 motors/min would be enough for the rest of the game? It's pretty nauseating to get that many as is...

[nova jungle]

no

[jagged vortex]

I mean what are motors used for besides one-time constructions?

[plucky violet]

More constructions

[fringe pawn]

Many advanced parts have motors as an ingredient. But if you're able to leave the game on overnight or while you're at work, 10/min is enough to finish all the space elevator deliveries.

[jagged vortex]

I mean I'm only making 8 rotors/min as just construction parts and that seems to be fine, same with 5 encased beams and such.

It's not like steel beams where I needed to massively boost production so I wouldn't constantly run out.

[worn heath]

@vapid gorge did you ever review the pipe issue I was having?

[neat bolt]

Ngl, I think there are 2 ways to fix pipes, first, add some hidden flow capacity, second, allow things that push into pipes, like pumps, extractors, and so, to exceed the listed limit if they get more full. Allowing them to 'fight back' against the sloshing

[prisma kraken]

motors get used all the way up the prod chain, cooling devices, turbomotors and mod engines use them. it's one of the parts that you just kind of need to pony up and build in bulk

[thorn trellis]

I have 25/min and it’s taking me like 5 hours to get what I need for one project

This doesn’t even include what they make in the future

[distant aurora]

hey does someone remember what C and S mean in the train throughput calculator

[thorn trellis]

S stack size

C capacity

Stack size for fluid is always 50

Capacity is 300 or 600 depending on mk 1 or 2 pipe

[jagged vortex]

I don't know if I can post reaction images but even if I could I could not exactly express my anguish properly with that because I just cannot find a good source of all 3 parts close by to each other and I don't even have log 4 so I can at most move 270 items/min crippling what I can make further.

[thorn trellis]

What

K got a suggestion

[prisma kraken]

built EIB's first with steel. unlock mk4 belts; profit

[thorn trellis]

If u wanna make motors the best way possible

[plucky violet]

cant find a place with iron coal and copper?

[thorn trellis]

Get two alts

One is iron wire which will remove copper all together

[prisma kraken]

*or cat wire

[thorn trellis]

Two is the one where u can make rotors with steel pipes and wire

This will make it so all u need is iron and coal

[prisma kraken]

there's also iron pipe

[thorn trellis]

Caterium is fine but that’s just another node

[thorn trellis]

I think the steel one makes more

[prisma kraken]

of course it does

[thorn trellis]

It’s prob best if u make steel anyways cuz any leftover pipes u just keep

[jagged vortex]

Well I have exactly one in my scannable area but that's already been used for an ammo making depot since it's also close to quartz. I had to drag sulfer a long way across but it was close enough.

[prisma kraken]

but you can trim motors down to iron only

[thorn trellis]

That’s true

[thorn trellis]

Find a place with iron and coal and do as I mentioned if u want

[jagged vortex]

Yeah just need to find those alts.

[thorn trellis]

Hard drive hunting time

[jagged vortex]

Which means LET'S GO GAMBLING

[prisma kraken]

or use your copper available for iron alloy -> iron pipe + iron wire (big brain)

[thorn trellis]

I mean to be fair I kinda cheat and relog my game

To get the recipe I want

It’s not too cheaty tho

[jagged vortex]

See I would do that if I wasn't already a serial collectathon-ist

[thorn trellis]

Idk what that means ngl

[plucky violet]

rhodo, idea, why not collect the hard drives anyways for display?

[jagged vortex]

I will eventually find all of the recipies.

[plucky violet]

only a fixed number right?

[thorn trellis]

I mean rhodo what area r u in

[jagged vortex]

Yeah just need to unlock scannable hard drives.

[plucky violet]

why not scim map

[jagged vortex]

Because that only helps so much

Elevation is still an issue

[thorn trellis]

Isn’t that like the best way to find hard drives

Satisfactory calculator says the elevation and what they need

And exact coords

[jagged vortex]

... Wait none would be underground would they

[plucky violet]

i seen some on trees so imma say prob not?

[thorn trellis]

I can’t answer that since I haven’t gotten every hard drive

[plucky violet]

but also that sounds rare itself

[thorn trellis]

I don’t think there r any underground

Maybe for like boom box disks

[jagged vortex]

I don't think it would be physically possible for a ship to crash land and then get burried without brreaking a hole in the roof

[thorn trellis]

Which spawn location r u in

[jagged vortex]

Rocky desert

[pastel obsidian]

maybe the spider used it to make a nest

[thorn trellis]

Damn the one area I know NOTHING about

[plucky violet]

wait rhodo, how would one crash on tree and not break the tree?

[jagged vortex]

It's pretty good.

[worn heath]

any1 willing to join my world and help me understand why my pipes ain't working right

[thorn trellis]

I’ve done most my worlds in desert

[jagged vortex]

I spawned near 3 pure iron nodes

[jagged vortex]

I would only be able to say "I know what's wrong with it ain't got no gas in it"

[fringe pawn]

Dang, that power use on compacted steel ingot really is crushing.

[thorn trellis]

@jagged vortex Rocky desert is actually a really good area for hard drives so u should be fine

Spire coasts ain’t far there’s 7 in that general area

[ember fractal]

I have 1000 compacted coal ready to be made into steel.... Gonna be a lot of machinery

[thorn trellis]

All with like easy reqs

All the ones in rocky desert r also very easy reqs

Go get like all of them

[prisma kraken]

yeah, it turned into a recipe to eat the byproduct of ionized fuel, lol

[thorn trellis]

And start scanning!

Just be careful u don’t get jumped by a spider or two

[fringe pawn]

Yeah, compacted steel is so power inefficient during phase 3-4 that realistically you should factor additional coal and water as a cost for more generators.

[frosty owl]

Behold some peak logistic work!
#screenshots message

[ember fractal]

Btw if you do sloppy alumina into electrode scrap and 200% + sloop that last refinery, it will output 1200 scrap, from just 300 bauxite

[thorn trellis]

Omg don’t remind me about what’s to come 😭

I’m gonna be spending weeks on this oil project that is way too big for me to be doing this early on

[ember fractal]

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately you end up with spare 120 water, which needs to be used for something

[pastel obsidian]

space age looks really good

[jagged vortex]

Drink it

[thorn trellis]

Wet concrete

[prisma kraken]

i'm always amazed how when you build aluminum, the build sort of sprawls out if you don't plan it all upfront

[jagged vortex]

Stay hydrated. This is a threat

[ember fractal]

Yah, or burn it in coal gens

[thorn trellis]

With what coal

Gonna be using ALL

[ember fractal]

Could burn compacted coal I guess from your rocket fuel

[thorn trellis]

Oh fair

[ember fractal]

1200 scrap from just a 2 refinery chain is nuts tho

[frosty owl]

Needing multiple steps of refining is pretty brutal on space needs

[ember fractal]

If OCing, the aluminum production is actually pretty compact

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i mean, i always kind of think about the ingot making alone as a build, but when you tack in the stuff you make from it directly (cooling sys, fmf, sheet/casing), it really does get pretty chonky

[thorn trellis]

Surely me doing oil to HOR to fuel to turbo fuel/fuel and residual rubber to fuel and residual plastic to once again residual rubber is enough refineries and will be more then aluminum

I love 7-8 step process

No I’m not crying

[prisma kraken]

well, um, chuck in heat-fused frame if you want more steps, lol

[thorn trellis]

Surely later on

[frosty owl]

The more the steps, the funner and more interesting the sushi

[prisma kraken]

that recipe is probably the most painful one of the game

[frosty owl]

So it's all downhill from here for me?

[thorn trellis]

The worst part is that I’m trying my best to not have any sushi

[prisma kraken]

idk, the space elevator stuff is a pain too, but it's space elevator stuff

[thorn trellis]

What is it

[frosty owl]

Turbomotors are gonna be easy, since I planned ahead and made Cooling Devices in a usable number already (so no need to re-do that production for the turbomotor line)

[prisma kraken]

heat fused frame

[thorn trellis]

Oh my god

[prisma kraken]

when nitric acid is the easiest ingredient in a recipe to make...

[thorn trellis]

Bro what the actual fuck

I think I should quit

Aluminum and fuel isn’t hard

[prisma kraken]

fortunately the default recipe isn't nearly as brutal

[frosty owl]

That's one of the three outputs of the production like I screenshotted earlier
It took me some headaches 😅

[thorn trellis]

Hmf I already know I don’t wanna deal with

[fringe seal]

Valves / pumps actually move fluids?
Procedure:

• Fill one buffer with N2
• Disconnect said buffer from the N2 line
• Construct an empty buffer and connect to the full buffer, wait until stabilized
• Construct a valve on the pipe connecting the two

Expected result:

• Due to the fluid sloshing, perfect equilibrium may take too long. Still, I expected ~180m3 then stabilizing, as that was the low reading
  Actual result:
• One buffer ended up almost emptying

[prisma kraken]

heatfused is like the optional boss behind the darksoul's boss of hmf

[frosty owl]

Just sloop an existing HMF manufacturer? ^^

[thorn trellis]

Isn’t the original fused one better

Or am I wrong

[fringe seal]

it uses up more aluminum

[prisma kraken]

it trades nitrogen for aluminum

[thorn trellis]

Isn’t this something the world has an abundant amount of or am I wrong

[unborn dome]

I'm planning on just slooping my original HMF factory. I intentionally only built one massively-overclocked manufacturer for easy slooping later.

[vapid gorge]

ah sorry, not yet. Been having to deal with some pet issues. Will look at it in a bit

[prisma kraken]

aluminum gets pretty tight when you're doing continuous delivery style goals

[thorn trellis]

I’m probably wrong and pissed off many people

[fringe seal]

it only exist on the narrow belt on the middle of the island, I remember something like <5000/min with Mk3 miners @ 100%

[amber umbra]

If you produce less you have excess of everything. Taps head

[unborn dome]

There's not a ton of bauxite on the map, and it's in harder areas to reach

[thorn trellis]

Nitrogen I assume easier to get a hand on

[worn heath]

ok cool!

[unborn dome]

Nope, it's pretty rare to find too

[vapid gorge]

like greeny said, every time a machine sucks fluid from a line it'll create that, it just depends on how much slosh tolerance your system has

for example - raw oil and fresh water? high tolerance, rarely needs a loop. Secondary fluid processes? often needs loop

[prisma kraken]

there's 12300 bauxite on the map

[fringe seal]

tbh
that might be even worse than alu

[thorn trellis]

Had a feeling

[prisma kraken]

it goes pretty quickly if you don't watch what you're doing

[thorn trellis]

So in the end which is better

[unborn dome]

By my quick count, there's only six nitrogen locations on the entire map

[fringe seal]

heat-fused is twice as faster, going by the wiki

[prisma kraken]

12000 nitrogen

[thorn trellis]

True but which is better when it comes to resource management

More machines isn’t an issue but resources r finite

[prisma kraken]

it depends on what your prioritizing

[thorn trellis]

Well which would u end up needing more of

[prisma kraken]

what happens in phase 4 and 5 is all the aluminum heavy components eat like 1000 of it in a build and it just isn't nearly as much as you'd hope for

[thorn trellis]

And what about nitrogen

[prisma kraken]

giving you an idea... 90 FMF/min uses 4-5000 raw bauxite

[thorn trellis]

Max 12k on the map like u mentioned before

That is a lot indeed

[unborn dome]

Oh wow, is this what I should be aiming for my future aluminum factory to be outputting in ingots?

[past reef]

Aluminum can be partially boosted by quartz/rubber while nitrogen can't

[prisma kraken]

nah, i'm just building big

[unborn dome]

I had set it up in the planner for only 240 aluminum ingot lol

[thorn trellis]

Rubber can boost good to know

[past reef]

Though to be fair I'll only be setting up 2 pure nodes max per build

[pastel obsidian]

that can last you a good while

[prisma kraken]

you can get through the game on 1-2 good bauxite nodes w/o problems

[thorn trellis]

Well

With enough time u can get through the game with very minimal amounts of nodes

[pastel obsidian]

Trigons eat most of my aluminum ATM

[prisma kraken]

sloop em

[thorn trellis]

Real

[prisma kraken]

if ever there was a part asking for sloops 😛

[pastel obsidian]

I slooped the SAM

[prisma kraken]

sloop both. make some uranium. glow in the dark. profit 🙂

[thorn trellis]

Dude I’m slooping my stator and motor production

[prisma kraken]

the converts for ficsite are also a really nice target

[thorn trellis]

Because of the sheer amount of motors I need for my project

[pastel obsidian]

TIl that the Converter only takes 2 sloops i just assumed it was 4

[weak rose]

Slooping sam is the only thing you should be slooping

[vapid gorge]

this is a nightmare

[prisma kraken]

rule #2 of pipes: keep pipe networks simple

[vapid gorge]

and load distribution is not really a thing with pipes, pipes aren't belts

[brisk smelt]

some pipes have excess and some lack

[vapid gorge]

is this alumina solution? which recipes are you using?

[vapid gorge]

clock your machines accordingly

[brisk smelt]

sloppy electrode

[brisk smelt]

its +120 surplus rn

[vapid gorge]

how much are you processing?

[brisk smelt]

9600 scraps

[vapid gorge]

alright you want to keep them in seperate groups.

is 600 a convenient number for you?

[brisk smelt]

600 of what

[vapid gorge]

600 bauxite pm in groups

since nodes will be producing 600 or 1200 for the most part

[fringe pawn]

Make sloppy electrode refineries in arrays of 4 sloppy at 75%, 4 electrode at 100%. Input 360 fresh water and 600 bauxite.

[ember fractal]

yah group your production by 600 bauxite each

modular

[fringe pawn]

Direct feed the alumina solution from one refinery to the next, no networking.

[brisk smelt]

this is a meme factory, its 1200 bauxite in total lol

[vapid gorge]

two groups of 600

completely seperated from other processes, unbreakable

[brisk smelt]

each refinery is 600, each scrap takes in 360

[ember fractal]

150% the sloppy refinery, 200% the electrode one

[vapid gorge]

blue line is fresh water, red is waste, numbers are clocking

[brisk smelt]

the thing is, there is no fresh water

the loop is self-sustaining

the scrap refineries are slooped

[fringe pawn]

Nice

[ember fractal]

nice

you'll need to bring the excess water to a higher elevation, and then use it for something

[brisk smelt]

its burned in NPP for now

[vapid gorge]

I mean there's probably ways to hate yourself that are less effort

[ember fractal]

This is a blueprint that consumes 600 bauxite, 240 pet coke, and zero water. It produces 240 excess water and 2400 scrap.

I just need to prime it with water for a minute, and then it runs after that

[fringe seal]

valves moving fluids is
unexpected to say the least?
you can't claim this is the result of headlift, it's a gas

[thorn trellis]

So uh which aluminum alt is better in the end

[vapid gorge]

define 'better' 😛

I can tell you the most comonly used ones, but that's not 'better'

[fringe seal]

most efficient: (sloppy + electrode) or (Instant)

[thorn trellis]

Good point

[plucky violet]

Guys rotors take 100 screws/min, and i have 10 constructors making screws, if they make 40 per minute, then 10 constructors make 400 screws per minute right?
And that should power 4 constructors for rotors? 100 each
Cause for some reason my screws are clogging what feels like should be 1:1

[thorn trellis]

What’s the most resource efficient for best output

[vapid gorge]

what Haxton said

most efficient for SCRAP

[brisk smelt]

sloppy electrode

[vapid gorge]

or instant

[brisk smelt]

silica ingot

[thorn trellis]

Lemme go check those out

[vapid gorge]

however you don't get the silica for regular inggots

[brisk smelt]

but silica for ingots is just silly dont use that

[slender forum]

is there a good X # of floor for the first floor, x number for the next? I've seen a few videos where they make 1 item and keep moving it upwards. But they dont usually share how many wall lengths upwards needed.

[fringe seal]

math checks out

[vapid gorge]

some people just want more ingots. it's a choice

[fringe seal]

what belt are you using

[brisk smelt]

quartz is pretty rare its generally not a great idea

[fringe pawn]

Default aluminum ingot doesn't really pan out, because if you're pushing aluminum hard enough that you want more, you're probably also doing things that'll make quartz just as precious.

[prisma kraken]

at least 3 4m foundations of height for constructors and assemblers. at least 4 for manufacturers

[thorn trellis]

What’s ur belt

[fringe seal]

I default to (32m air) - (1m foundation) - (6m air) - (1m foundation)

[pastel obsidian]

if you have some lying around why not use it

[plucky violet]

mk2 for the inputs.
mk3 for the rest.
Im using 6 constructors for the first 2 rotor constructors, this makes 240 screws, and the remaining 4 screw constructors make 160.
I Have a smart splitter at the end of the first 2 rotors so when that fills up, what should be left is 40/min, so i merge that with the other 160 making the other 200 screws for the other 2 rotor constructors

Where they merge 40 and 160 is where they seem to start clogging

[thorn trellis]

Mk 2 is 120 per min

[plucky violet]

and the rotor constructors take 100/min

[thorn trellis]

Ye

U mentioned u merge 40 and 160

That’s not possible on mk 2

[plucky violet]

thats done with mk3

[vapid gorge]

people do weirder things than ship large amounts of crystal. + if you choose the right recipes you barely need quartz for anything in the game

[thorn trellis]

U said ur using mk 2

[vapid gorge]

you can cut it down to a few oscilators

[plucky violet]

oh sry typo

[thorn trellis]

Unless typo

[fringe seal]

so the central lane is all mk3?

[plucky violet]

fixed, mk2 for inputs, the main lines use mk3
yes

[thorn trellis]

Check if they r actually mk 3

One thing i suggest is only using one type of belt

It will make for much easier troubleshooting

[vapid gorge]

pre 1.0 I was playing around with buildiong everything in the east swamp and avoiding trying ot use the crystal on the cliffs cause I wanted to avoid that. ended up I did need a bit but only for a handful of oscilators that needed crystal.

[thorn trellis]

Cuz since u used both there is a tiny chance u could’ve missed making one mk 3

[prisma kraken]

i gotta say, the sloop in here feels cheaty:

[vapid gorge]

I don't think 1.0 has changed that

[thorn trellis]

4 sloops is unreal

So many

[prisma kraken]

um, you have no idea of how many machines that saves

[thorn trellis]

I know dw

I’m just sayin

How many r on the map like 90 something

[prisma kraken]

i have a few to spare, no worries

[fringe seal]

nothing is starving right

[thorn trellis]

Oh my bro went hunting

[thorn trellis]

^

I need to c a photo to help trouble shooting here

Cuz idk where the issue is at

[plucky violet]

Nope, i think it might be fine now?
I think it might of boiled down to the output slots of screws filling up during previous fixing, so they might of just been sending a full buffer of screws when they were meant to send less.

to think fixing a bug cause a temporal bug xD

[thorn trellis]

As long as the issue is fixed 👌

[plucky violet]

smart spliters seem to be the banadges and gauze for my factory XD

[slender forum]

@fringe seal you say 32m air. So 32 meters (8 wall lengths) vertical, to get to second layer? Why so much?

[plucky violet]

To the naked eye at least

[fringe seal]

I think I got that number while building refineries but then I think that is overkill even for refineries
refineries are ~18m iirc?
when building something short like constructors I split the 32m floor into 2

[fringe seal]

so tbh idk

[prisma kraken]

you can squeeze down to 2 wall lengths for constructors and assemblers, but i find the 3 more comfy... at 2 lengths of height the assembler status lighted ends up burried in foundation

[leaden cosmos]

Sounds like leaving room for refineries

[ember fractal]

with all the scrap i'm making, I don't mind pure alum ingot recipe

[unborn dome]

I haven't started building it, but I'm planning on using this one too, combined with sloppy alumina

[fringe seal]

1. test setup
2. valves spontaneously emptying one pipe and filling the other

[thorn trellis]

Is silica used for anything else important

[fringe seal]

3. note that the pump is off, and has never been powered

[unborn dome]

Looks like some nuclear stuff and some electronics alt recipes

[thorn trellis]

I think I shouldn’t use the electronic alt ones

[vapid gorge]

you can either use a TON of silica for lots of things, or basically none.

or somewhere in the middle

[thorn trellis]

Prob should save all my silica for aluminum and uranium stuff

Plastic u can get a shit ton of so it’s fine

[vapid gorge]

well you can use zero for aluminium

[thorn trellis]

True but less aluminum output I think

[amber jacinth]

So you can use some, all, or none of a certain resource... hmm...

[vapid gorge]

just about yeah

[vapid gorge]

you can put out 12k~ alum ingots w/o silica. Often easier to just bring in more bauxite

[crystal charm]

finished the main space elevator game part, got a bit of "what now?" feeling

[unborn dome]

Yeah I remember my aluminum factory in U3 used the default recipes and the beltwork was really frustrating to get right.

[thorn trellis]

What else does bauxite have a use for

[vapid gorge]

pre 1.0 you could do full production chain never making iron ingots
or cut out rods/screws
or only ever use a handful of quarts for a few oscilators

[unborn dome]

Absolutely nothing

[vapid gorge]

just alum

[thorn trellis]

So can’t I just like

Once I unlock take all the baux in the map

[unborn dome]

Well, aside from some late game SAM-related recipes

[thorn trellis]

And make a massive alum factory

[vapid gorge]

you can. You almost certainly won't need it all

[unborn dome]

But those are optional

[vapid gorge]

but you can

[thorn trellis]

I mean I don’t think u need everything in the world right

Other then sam

And maybe uranium

[leaden cosmos]

It only takes a tiny amount of oil to do that approach for bauxite

[vapid gorge]

I barely use sam, and you don't need full nuclear

[thorn trellis]

All depends on play style Ofc

[vapid gorge]

I avoid all the conversion recipes

[thorn trellis]

Oil for bauxite is needed?

[vapid gorge]

and even half uranium puts out a TON of power

[vapid gorge]

for one of the recipes

instead of coal

[leaden cosmos]

Well more 300GW is already in the hard to burn levels of power.
1.75TW is even further

[thorn trellis]

Shit u might be right

[unborn dome]

You're talking about the "instant" one?

[thorn trellis]

Electrode

[unborn dome]

Oh no, you're talking about the "electrode" one

Yeah

[thorn trellis]

For more efficient material use which is better

Gotta figure out my oil supply

Since I’m using half the maps oil already

[vapid gorge]

electrode scrap

[unborn dome]

The yield on "electrode" seems really good

[leaden cosmos]

? Im curious what thats outputting 😄

[brisk smelt]

around 5000 oil so 15000 plastic/rubber/fuel

[leaden cosmos]

Your using diluted and recycled right? I would have thought higher

[thorn trellis]

Yea nothing u wanna know

[brisk smelt]

oil is 1:3

[thorn trellis]

Way too much plastic and rubber basically

[brisk smelt]

1:6, slooped

[thorn trellis]

I got bored

[brisk smelt]

wait no thats not possible it just breaks the entire recycling chain

actually no it is possible what am i saying

[thorn trellis]

Bros backtracking like crazy

The average satisfactory experience

[leaden cosmos]

Time to convert some of the fuel to rocketfuel and ramp up the plastic and rubber 😄

[unborn dome]

Is 400 each of plastic/rubber/fuel too ambitious?

I basically just want a plastic+rubber factory that'll last me to the end of the game

[thorn trellis]

I wouldn’t know

I think I’m gonna be making like 3k of each

I have no clue about the end of the game tho so this could be a mistake

[leaden cosmos]

We hit endgame with 600 of each 🙂

It just comes down to how quickly

[unborn dome]

Was that just right? Too much?