math-and-meta

[edgy leaf]

holy fuck

[cedar ivy]

you can get double power shards from slugs, or double->quadruple dna caps from mob remains->protein->dna

[sharp sorrel]

Thats exactly my situation too. I also have an octagon shaped set up in the lake SE of the map. At this size and layout im fitting 10 gens on the roof on each side, hence the 80 self imposed limit

[analog shadow]

We have Raves in Satisfactory before GTA6???

[edgy leaf]

you can get like, 533.333 liquid biofuel per alien remains i think

[mild remnant]

actually i dont know what sloop dupe means but i think (bc of the somer sloop mechanic)

[full igloo]

I'm fully overclocked on 60 gens

[quiet breach]

Oh yeah!! Gotcha. I did that. Saved everything and just did that had like 200-400 shards

[full igloo]

So like 40k or something I forget

[edgy leaf]

in my old world i hade them in a cube! very creative...

[full igloo]

Lmao yeah

[ashen girder]

Sloop dupe. Sluping.

Hang on sloopy, hang on.

[mild remnant]

I had em on like diamond shaped flying platforms...

[edgy leaf]

slobbing.

[quiet breach]

Should be on front page of ficsit enterprises

[full igloo]

I really hate the massive repetition in this game, like for my plastic production I'd need like 32 refineries and I just couldn't do that, so everything is always overclocked so I need less buildings

[edgy leaf]

i LOVE the repitition.

but maybe thats just my autism.

[mild remnant]

Just dont go big jk jk

[quiet breach]

That’s exactly “why” to go big

[edgy leaf]

go big or go HOME is the words i live by

[mild remnant]

if done right it can look really relly good

[quiet breach]

Do it all once or twice vs 10 times

[fallen geyser]

guys i need to share this pain with someone https://www.reddit.com/r/satisfactory/s/XeWOJTaQro

[mild remnant]

fr

[edgy leaf]

i want to be unable to see the end of my factory when im in the middle of it. just endlessly repeating rows of machines.

[full igloo]

Help 😭😭😭 my worst nightmare

[mild remnant]

haha render distance low

[edgy leaf]

no, render distance high 💪

[mild remnant]

it can look good but placing that is a nightmare

[edgy leaf]

i think my oil plant will have about 3k machine when its done? im not sure.

[mild remnant]

make it 6k underclock everything to 50%

[quiet breach]

1% lol

[fallen geyser]

this guy thinks that if you have a 480/min belt running into a splitter with a 60/min belt and another 480/min belt coming out of it, the split would be 60/240. When people ask him where the other 180 goes he refuses to answer

[edgy leaf]

nono, everything is already overclocked to 250%

or wiat nvm its actually 1k machines, i mxied stuff up oopsi

eh, still, 1k machines with everything overclocked

[mild remnant]

You are not going big you are going huge ...

[fallen geyser]

Don't listen to the haters, the factory must grow

[edgy leaf]

my plan is to process literally all the oil in one place, using the longest and most complicated chain available to make plastic and rubber

[spare jolt]

It's not repetition, it's just FICSIT has shitty R&D which cannot develop machines that are effective enough and don't require such sheer amount

[mild remnant]

And you alr know how much Rubber/Plastic you are goong to make?

[edgy leaf]

this is three columns of machines. i plan to have around 20

[fallen geyser]

tbf a machine that can do any one of the processes we use it for interchangeably is a huge feat of engineering

[ashen girder]

Progress! You were at 2 last I saw!

[fallen geyser]

they probably valued modularity/repurposability over efficiency on one process

[edgy leaf]

yea i spent most of my time not building columns but building infrastructure and researching pipes.

[full igloo]

I just did that, with recycled stuff

[fallen geyser]

im more impressed by how neatly you have everything spaced out at this scale

[fringe seal]

I'd consider balancer only when:

1. the number of machines has only 2 and 3 as prime factors
2. there's space

[full igloo]

This part only makes plastic actually

Haven't even done the rubber 😭😭

[edgy leaf]

yes i have everything planned out. every individual item i want to produce is planned out. its going to use 12562.4 oil/min, that leaves only 37.6 oil per minute in the entire world

[quiet breach]

Yall are insanely good lol

[full igloo]

I'm not good I just kinda brute force everything lmao

[mild remnant]

So you are going to make a max Uranium set up too?

[edgy leaf]

honestly the scale makes it easier to space things out. i find big builds a LOT easier to design than small builds.

[cedar ivy]

congrats you're winning the game

[mild remnant]

Im not good i have time... and i love the game

[edgy leaf]

yep. 50.4 fuel rods and 10 fueled APAs.

give me a sec ill calculate how much power that is

[quiet breach]

And skilled bro.

[fallen geyser]

How do you plan out your factory layouts? Like I know how to use SFTools to get the number of machines and rates and ratios, but how do you go from that to a nicely spaced out factory? I just slap down stuff as I go and always end up slightly misaligned somewhere

[mild remnant]

Thanks man

[full igloo]

The only build I'm really happy with is my fuel factory, this powers the 60 gens and that's it

[plain fossil]

My power capacity is a straight line

lets GO

[edgy leaf]

for my plastic factory i designed one column and now i just paste it 20 times.

it takes a LOT of time to make sure all pipes are perfectly identical between all slices, down to the centimeter.

[full igloo]

I don't use a single blueprint honestly

[edgy leaf]

i also colorcode literally everything

[mild remnant]

Yours look very industrial

[edgy leaf]

most of my blueprints have like, 20-50 parts, placing htat many painted beams by hand would take decades :/

[plain fossil]

i wish i had the wilpower to design my factories

[livid valve]

congrats! great feeling tbh. I believe in geothermal supremacy tho

[plain fossil]

i did have to underpower some fuel gens

[full igloo]

okay except the Gay Train Spiral, that was like 4000 colored signs lmao that was a blueprint

[plain fossil]

but now i have my plastic actually cycling through so i should be making a lot of residual fuel

[quiet breach]

I need to build 120 fuel generators 250%….

[ashen girder]

Can vouch that it's gorgeous though.

[quiet breach]

Might be too much

[plain fossil]

idk where to get that much oil

[edgy leaf]

it should produce exactly 2,540,000MW when its done

or 2.54TW if ur a sane person

[mild remnant]

I really liked that one

[quiet breach]

Lord have mercy 2.54

[edgy leaf]

thats with just 50.4 UFR, no plut rods are being burned for power.

[fallen geyser]

For me it's factories with a lot of different machines that trip me up. Like I can make an array of 1k refineries look good easily, but a factory with 22.63929 refineries feeding 35.37 assemblers feeding etc etc etc gets messy for me really quickly

[edgy leaf]

i plan to use the plutonium rods for my drones.

[quiet breach]

That’s legit almost looked like basketball hoops on the left side with the junctions

[mild remnant]

Ngl thats so cool i wanted to do smth like that but i dont really have the patience for that

[edgy leaf]

thats why i do one big facotry for one thing at a time. that way i only have to focus at one thing

[full igloo]

that's where the 1 hour of painstaking math comes in beforehand lmao

[edgy leaf]

oh no, i havent done it. i plan to. im probably going to burn out about 20% of the way there

[mild remnant]

haha yeah

[fallen geyser]

The math is great, I know how to do the math and love it! It's the aesthetics and alignment that are killing me here

[mild remnant]

yeah exactly me too thats why i dont do such things

[full igloo]

I ever so slightly ✨messed up✨ and ended up with twice as much fuel as I thought I'd get so my plastic is 3200/min instead of the 1600 I wanted lmao

[slender sandal]

its probably a bad idea to try fitting all of this into a single factory complex, but Ive finally got a plan for the production line for all my phase 4 parts

[quiet breach]

I lay out an area then have no idea how i get to the end lol just build as I go, like oh that works there 😂

[fallen geyser]

This is my endgame goal tbh im designing my current factories with the mindset that they only need to be good enough to make the ingredients for the megafactory that will obsolete them

[mild remnant]

You see i have done a 15 Plutonium Fuel Rods facotry with full power of the Uranium Fuelrods so 250GW ish.. and i have so little intrest in decorating that place bc i almost burned out... So i would never start a 2.5 TW run atleast not alone

[mild remnant]

Yep me too when i need more space i hope i have more space to expand so thats why i said "never build yourself into a corner"

[fallen geyser]

This is why I build all my factories about 10m above the ocean, lets me slap down water extractors directly underneath wherever they're needed instead of piping it in

[edgy leaf]

each row has 54 machines.10 water extrctors, 36 refineries and 8 blenders. im at 3 rows rn but ill need like 18-20 i think(?)

the fuel gens to the side ar temporary and will be replaced by nuclear

[plain fossil]

how do yall do fuel gens

[edgy leaf]

really proud of the logi floor ngl

blueprints helped a lot but all the coloring is manual.

[mild remnant]

clean

[plain fossil]

like should i supply more fuel than required?

[mild remnant]

yeah

[edgy leaf]

i just slap them down, considering doing a blueprint to make them pretty but im not sure. they'll just be temporary until i get nuclear.

[edgy leaf]

no. dont.

[plain fossil]

i just hate it

[edgy leaf]

why?

[plain fossil]

in theory i should be in deficit

but like my consumption is 450m3/min

[edgy leaf]

just use unnecessary pumps. pumps everywhere where they dont belong.

[plain fossil]

and supply is only 300

but its overflowing

[edgy leaf]

whats the problem?

[full igloo]

people say that doesn't help at all, I swear it does haha

[plain fossil]

by a lot

[edgy leaf]

i literally did science to prove it does help, for some godforsaken reason

[plain fossil]

im just worrying that at some point it will catch up and just die

[full igloo]

they say "pumps only provide headlift" no I swear they actually move lazy liquids

[fallen geyser]

slapping on a pump to a broken pipeline is the satisfactory equivalent of smacking a broken tv

[plain fossil]

and this is already done

[ashen girder]

Yeah, we can definitively say it does help when it shouldn't.

[edgy leaf]

well then some math is probably wrong

[plain fossil]

no its not

i have 3 pipes, each 300m3

of crude oil

and one of them is going into 4 75m3 refineries for rubber and plastic

[fallen geyser]

Do pipeline floor holes introduce issues that wall mounting points don't

[plain fossil]

those output 125m3 residual

[mild remnant]

Yep floorholes are like the no.1 Problem maker for Pipes

[plain fossil]

and i have that residual refined into fuel at like 185 consumption

[edgy leaf]

just dont use pipeline floorholes. not because they cause issues, but because other people will blame them instead of helping you when you do have issuse casued by other things.

[plain fossil]

thats a 60m3 deficit and its somehow overflowing

[cedar ivy]

They (both, probably) used to be a problem, when you would add a pump or something into the pipe connected to them. That bug is allegedly fixed now

But also, more connections means more possible places something can go wrong

[mild remnant]

to be fair 80% of the issues are from floorholes

[edgy leaf]

no. literally 0% of my issues have been from floorholes.

[cedar ivy]

*Used to be.

[edgy leaf]

for some reason i need 370 meters of headlift to move fluid up 8 meters. why?

[ashen girder]

FLOOR HOLES!

Did I do it right?

[edgy leaf]

yes.

[plain fossil]

hah, he said holes

[fallen geyser]

I'm going to make a blueprint for a "floor hole" that actually has the pipeline snapped to a deleted wall mounting point flush with the floor and an unconnected floor hole clipped over that, just to confuse these people

[edgy leaf]

why is 50 meters of headlift not enough to move fluid up 8 meters? WHY. tell me game why is it not enough.

[ashen girder]

BECAUSE WORK PRESSURE OR SOMETHING.

[fallen geyser]

uhhhhhhh water hammer /s

[mild remnant]

My water supply didnt work bc of floorholes so idk what your experience is with em i always have issues with those

[ashen girder]

Nah, water hammer's the 600 thing, not the bottomfed thing.

[plain fossil]

but yeah ill just keep doing what im doing and if i hear fuse blown, RIP for this save file

[ashen girder]

And that one surprisingly makes sense IMO.

[edgy leaf]

im going to personally torture everyone that says the word waterhammer ever again. i hate that word

[ashen girder]

It's two words is probably why.

[fallen geyser]

to be clear i was being sarcastic i hate that too

[cedar ivy]

90% of fluid problems are that pipes are unintuitive and dont actually show what is wrong most of the time

[edgy leaf]

"oh yes its just the water hammer it actually makes sense you see! the system works perfectly you just dont understand that its actually waterhammer"

well waterhammer shouldnt be fixed by 370 meters of headlift.

[fallen geyser]

even if it is being accurately modeled (which it isn't) including it for specifically mk2 pipes is bad game design

[ashen girder]

I mean, it makes sense why it's that. Just no idea what scenarios cause it. 😂

[edgy leaf]

am i going insane? yes i am going insane.

[mild remnant]

wrong!!! FLOORHOLES!!!

[quiet breach]

@fallen geyser @mild remnant solid game plan

[edgy leaf]

floorholes.... i hate floorholes (i dont i love them)

i have florholes in all my blueprints and the blueprints never work

[fallen geyser]

The worst part about troubleshooting pipeline issues is coming here and people suggesting the most esoteric shit and ending it with "obviously" like no none of this is obvious what do you MEAN the water sloshes in the pipes

[mild remnant]

I already write "i hate floorholes" all over my bedromm wall

[edgy leaf]

i mean, they do work. when u apply 370 meters of headlift

[edgy leaf]

i dont think ive ever seen a situation that couldnt be fixed by adding pumps (besides things like having the wrong pipe level or math mistakes.

[mild remnant]

Easy just do it ... OBVIOUSLY

[mild remnant]

Fr except the Problem is caused by FLOORHOLES

[edgy leaf]

yes its SO OBVIOUS that you need 370 meters of headlift to move fluid up 8 meters. you see, 50 is LESS than 8, thats why you need 370. because 370 is more than eight

[edgy leaf]

or well, a situation where VIP is necessary. but any situation with suboptimal flow can be fixed by pumps

[fallen geyser]

i do sometimes run into rare circumstances where a pump itself is causing the issue. this, of course, is fixed by deleting the pump and replacing it with a fresh pump

[mild remnant]

Just use water towers ...

[edgy leaf]

yes sometimes the pumps get used up, u need to replace them, obviously

[fallen geyser]

they run out of magic smoke

[edgy leaf]

you see, machines eat the headlift of the water towers (machines are hungry), so water twores wont work unless you feed hte machines new headlift using pumps.

[mild remnant]

they only do tshhhhhhhh anymore

[edgy leaf]

obviously.

the funny thing is im not even being sarcastic...

[mild remnant]

Thanks for the food explanation im hungry now :((

[edgy leaf]

i just ate some very yummy baguettes 😋

[mild remnant]

stop plsss

[edgy leaf]

genuineyl, please show me a situation where pumps dont help. it would really help my research efforts

[fallen geyser]

the worst part about finding this channel was that i was feeling so clever about my refinery designs all being bottomfed via floor holes

[edgy leaf]

id love to be proven wrong

[fallen geyser]

and then realizing that's like the worst thing i could do

[mild remnant]

ill show you when i have time...

[edgy leaf]

i mean, lifting 500kg is more difficult than lifting 1kg, yes. but lifting 500kg is way more impressive.

so you did the right thing by doing bottomfed floorhole design, it makes u cooler BECAUSE it is more difficult

[supple harbor]

Ok, help me ou here, see if my understanding is right. If I have 2 fuel refineries pumping out (4m3 at 40/min x 2) that's 320m3/min in total, right?

[edgy leaf]

no. two refineries are producing 40 per minute. two times 40 is 80.

[fallen geyser]

Really that's the infuriating part, you come up with some solution that seems ingenious to you because the fluid mechanics are impossible to suss out without outside help, and then you go to share your genius design and learn that actually it sucks because OBVIOUSLY floor holes are cursed and machines eat head lift

[fringe seal]

this so so much

[edgy leaf]

no. automaton is misunderstanding it. the per minute doesnt apply to the cycle time.

[mild remnant]

Oh thats what he meant

[edgy leaf]

lets say the machine produces 5 items per cycle. it says it produces 50 items per minute. that means it does 10 cycles per minute (resulting in 50 items per minute total)

[supple harbor]

80 lots of 4m3 so 80 x 4 = 320 no?

[mild remnant]

Nom nom headlift... xD

[edgy leaf]

one refinery is producing 40 per minute. the other is also producing 40 per minute. 40 + 40 = 80

it just produces it in batches of 4.

[fallen geyser]

the two numbers aren't related like that. the first number is per cycle, the second number multiplies that by the cycle time to get items per minute. you don't just multiply them together

[supple harbor]

Ah, right.

That's where I was getting confused

Thank you.

[fallen geyser]

Usually you care about the rate per minute more than per cycle

[edgy leaf]

yea. if i give you 2 dollars at a time, and give you 10 dollars per minute in total, that means i give you 2 dollars 5 times per minute, for 10 dollars per minute in total.

(im not going to give you any money, sorry to disappoint :( )

[supple harbor]

Yea, I thought it was producing 4m3 40x per minute.

[mild remnant]

What about 5 Baguetts/min????

[supple harbor]

Thanks for clearing that up. 👍

[fallen geyser]

Satisbakery expansion when

[edgy leaf]

ur a very hungry pioneer...

[mild remnant]

I mean they didnt wnat to give us golf so please coffestain give us baguetts

[edgy leaf]

no, thats fr*nch

[mild remnant]

I am... the 500 HMF per hand are demanding energy , human enregy

[fallen geyser]

you know what would be the funniest crossover expansion they could release now that i think about it

[mild remnant]

Oh right ...

[edgy leaf]

satisfactory and candycrush?

[mild remnant]

My little pony?

[edgy leaf]

satisfactory and modded minecraft? no that would just be satisfactory but better, or rather, modded minecraft but worse

[fallen geyser]

"pioneer, now that you've got some free time, we have a contract for you from a passing spaceship. they want... beer. lots of beer. it seemed urgent - something about a bug infestation?"

[mild remnant]

Huh u think modded mc is better than Satisfactory?

[edgy leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-dc-comics-gif-24835425

[fallen geyser]

and then set up some way to pipe your beer output from satisfactory into the bar in DRG

[mild remnant]

ALKOHOL!!!🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺

[edgy leaf]

BIER

[edgy leaf]

they add a pipe to the space elevator so that u can pump a constant stream of beer to space

[mild remnant]

Its fine i guess i really like it too but satis is just another game design

[edgy leaf]

yea i wasnt being serious

[mild remnant]

And if you dont you explode ... 1000 little pieces

[fringe seal]

funnily I thought about "but what about fluid project parts?" about 5 minutes ago

[fallen geyser]

theyd also have the opportunity for really funny lore, like making Leaf Lover's the starting ingredient for every other brew

[edgy leaf]

i have no clue what ur talking aobut. whats DRG and leaf lovers

[mild remnant]

I am scared ... ill load up my Space elevator with beer and a FLOORHOLE will stop me from doing that

[fallen geyser]

CSG's other big game, Deep Rock Galactic

you can drink beer in the lobby area that gives you different buffs in your next mission

[mild remnant]

What a GAME!

[fallen geyser]

truly one of the video games of all time

i remember picking it up during the beta like "huh i wonder if this is as good as vermintide"

[fringe seal]

Sink beer via... portal or idk
gain random assortment of ores the dwarves mine

[fallen geyser]

a few years later and uh. yeah it's pretty good lol

[mild remnant]

They send you the Ores down via Spacelevator

[fallen geyser]

special endgame ammo that uses Nitra and Bismor

[mild remnant]

Where mod at?

[fallen geyser]

also they have straight up radioactive zones in DRG right? maybe you could set it up so you could trade beer for more uranium than exists on the map by default

[mild remnant]

That would be cool

[fallen geyser]

trading beer for special ores could be cool

[fringe seal]

oh god. Dwarven Trading Post

a building that you can construct in the Special tab

[mild remnant]

Ramping up the efficiency with an extra Beer input of every machine

[fallen geyser]

what if you could get scout's zipline gun...

if i could play satisfactory with Special Powder boomstick + grappling gun i would never play another game

[edgy leaf]

that implies that there's dwarves trapped in every machine doing the work

[fallen geyser]

that's ridiculous. obviously it's gnomes

[spare jolt]

Umanite as a less effective replacement of Uranium, Magnite - of Iron, Croppa - of Copper, and so on...

[rare gust]

I am trying to make a production planer as a fun side project, does anyone know if there is a file with all parts and their ingredients?

[livid meteor]

Excuse me? What

[brisk smelt]

yeah it happened

[deft lichen]

#satisfactory message

misconfigured water surfaces in the red jungle + silly water extractor default string

[livid meteor]

Man that'S wild

so the water extractor just dug up 999 nuclear waste?

how the F does that even work? Does it just drop them somewhere?

Does it have an inventory where it keeps them?

does it flow through pipes?!?

[fringe pawn]

Would be kind of cool to only run on plutonium, if those water extractors really gave uranium waste.

[amber jacinth]

Just showed as nuclear waste water in the UI, the extractor didn't output anything and just stopped running when it occurred.

[livid meteor]

I need MOOOOORE

[livid meteor]

I guess when you disassembled you got the waste?

[amber jacinth]

You didn't get anything, it was a purple(?) liquid, not a physical item.

I assume it was a "null" liquid placeholder of sorts

[livid meteor]

I see

some more days and I got my nut I guess?

[prisma kraken]

do some game hunting

[sturdy arrow]

Happens all the time in the red forest

[prisma kraken]

each cliff hog you kill is worth 20k dna points with 2 sloops

[edgy leaf]

does scim have a diff function? i want to make sure all my columns are identical

[quiet breach]

was wondering if this should hold it down for a bit, or if you think I need to do more of either or, If I mathed right, should be little shy of 74k MW and 60 packaged RF a min ?

[edgy leaf]

i need everything to be perfectly identical, even the colors

[fringe pawn]

42,547 alien remains necessary for a golden nut via slooped protein and DNA capsules. Not bad.

[prisma kraken]

heh, is that all?

[fringe pawn]

I think I've got a loop that does 250~ remains.

[vapid gorge]

burning rocket fuel is a pain in the ass depending on your layout, huuuuuuge amounts of space taken up by generators even with a good layout. Just go nuclear

[fringe pawn]

So based on where I'm at now, I need to do 140~ more killing sprees to get to that 334 DNA cap price grouping.

[plush gulch]

Guys. I need your help 🤔
I got the diluted packaged fuel recipe.
Currently I am producing 150m^2 heavy oil residue and 100m^2 fuel. Results in 1,250MW Energy.
If i were to use the alternate packages diluted fuel recipe, I could triple this energy consumption.
I would need to use 5 refineries instead of 3. Adds 78MW.
3 water pumps pumping a total of 300m^2 water. Adding 48MW.
5 packager packing water into canister. 50MW
Lastly 5 packager unpacking the fuel. Another 50MW.

This will gain me instead of 1250MW a whopping 3,750MW
I would use 226MW for the extra refineries, but that's a small number compared to the end result I would gain in extra energy.
I would have to manufacture some empty canisters but only until everything is filled with those.

Am I missing something? is the calculation wrong. Can't be that easy to produce that much more power

[vapid gorge]

all the problems of burning fuel in mass, that they fixed for you by increasing base fuel consumption of fuel and turbo, comes back with trying to burn rocket

[vapid gorge]

that's a lot of lines to follow, did you plug it into tools?

[quiet breach]

shit.... was kind of looking forward to the massiveness of generators

was planning on OC 250% on them

[edgy leaf]

it is that easy, the downside is that it takes more space and effort

[fringe pawn]

I don't find fuel generator spam to be a problem, just blueprint pre-overclocked ones?

[vapid gorge]

don't put them in towers and at least you won't have flow issues.

if huge lines of gens is what you want though, go for it. I just think they are a pita and ugly

[quiet breach]

flip side.... ive never gotten this far, and havent used blenders yet... figured this may be a good learning curve?

[vapid gorge]

learning curve with blenders is mostly just learning how you like your logistics connecting them.

[plush gulch]

Did it myself. Took some time to calculate

[quiet breach]

was probs going to build them underwater truthfully

[vapid gorge]

plug it into this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

[fringe pawn]

Huge rows of nuclear are just as ugly IMO? They're not as huge, but it still reaches the same place of being well past any aesthetic tipping point.

[quiet breach]

wont even know they are there

[vapid gorge]

you need 10x fewer for the same power

[fringe pawn]

I know

[vapid gorge]

or 5x, can't recall what the new ratios are

[quiet breach]

side note - is 60 packaged / min efficient to run maybe a small ish drone network

[fringe pawn]

I mean, I have saves I can load of my own where I can just look. 🤷

Visually I don't find one any better or worse than the other, they're both past a scale where they're nice aesthetically.

[vapid gorge]

def get a number of drones off that 🙂

[quiet breach]

ok sweet

[edgy leaf]

i think after a certain point it becomes beautiful again

an endless expanse of machinery, u cant see the end of it when ur inside.

[fringe pawn]

In the end it's all subjective. I will say I disagree about rocket fuel being difficult to implement though. By that point you have MK2 blueprints. With MK3 you can easily fit 4 in the designer too.

[edgy leaf]

yea definitely agree on that one

[fringe pawn]

And no headlift

[plush gulch]

Either I am dumb AF or it just won't show the alternate recipe I want

[amber umbra]

@plush gulch There is a blender version of diluted fuel that is identical (?) except for not needing packaging. Might be worth unlocking that since 1.0 made teaching to blenders easier.

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=E3NXW0PirI0GHFCoZs1V like this?

[amber umbra]

The packaged version existed before blenders if my satisfactory history is right. So it’s kinda an old version of the production line.

[plush gulch]

Yeah. Just showed me the old recept

[plush gulch]

Only at Tier 6 so far and Phase 3 of the space elevator

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand what you mean.

look at the inputs and recipes I locked in

I turned off oil and put in your heavy oil residue, then ticked packaged diluted fuel

[plush gulch]

thats the only recipe i get

[flint rapids]

I'm looking at 2 alts for Alum Scrap and the default recipe and the choice seems entirely geographical. Inputs of bauxite and outputs of scrap are all so similar - the only deciding factor is whether you want to transport in coal, sulfur or petrocoke.
Is there some other consideration I might be missing?

[fringe pawn]

Sulfur?

Oh right, insta scrap

[vapid gorge]

turn off residual fuel, turn on diluted packaged fuel

in the recipe section

[fringe pawn]

You've got it right. Base your recipe choice on the resources you want to route.

[flint rapids]

tick Off BASE fuel recipies in the right column

[edgy leaf]

finally scaling up a bit @ashen girder

uGH, u cant place water extractors in blueprints, right?

time to tear everything down again

they should really fix that

makes placing them quite the pita

[vapid gorge]

you know the beautiful thing about mods coming back? an overclocked water extractor that pumps out 3000 water pm

[edgy leaf]

why would i want one big one when i can have a hundred small ones?

[vapid gorge]

literally so you don't need a 100 of them

[edgy leaf]

i mean yea but i like having lots of machines for a big factory yk

whats next, a blender that can do 3000 fuel pm?

also, copypasting water extractor settings would be nice

its not that bad with gens because u can BP them, but u can understandably not BP water extractors

(BPing them is different from placing them in a BP)

[pliant current]

how can i make sure my freight platform only takes half of the stuff from a freight car?

[edgy leaf]

make it only consume half of the stuff

if the freight car has 500/min of items and the factory consumes 250/min of items then it will only take 250/min of items (after it first started running) because well, where would it put more items?

[pliant current]

the problem with that is that the station would need to be filled before it started working

[edgy leaf]

well, at first it would take more than half, yes

but after a while the station will fill because it only takes 250 items per minute, then it will only take half of what the freight car has

[ember fractal]

And what pipe are you gonna use to transport those 3000 water?

[pliant current]

thanks for the help, i'll give it a try. might be sitting around for a while but its better than nothing

[edgy leaf]

it really doesnt take as long as you'd think, unless its a super low throughput item. you'd probably spend more time trying to make a weird splitter merger abomination to limit belt throughput than it would take to just wait

and well, u can do other things while it warms up

[quiet breach]

what about the pipes lol

[edgy leaf]

multiple outputs

[magic island]

the general tradeoff you make when using trains is that you lose any chance of controlling rates precisely. A firehose of items will intermittently come out of the station and that's just how it's gonna work.

[edgy leaf]

is what id guess

[quiet breach]

ohh smart

5 of them then

[brisk smelt]

we need water extractor mk.2 and 3 with multi outputs 😔

[edgy leaf]

u can control rate of items jsut as well as with belts.

[quiet breach]

and extended zooping wouldnt be terrible... 10 is great and all but dang...

[cedar mica]

Blueprints... 5x5 concrete can quickly cover an area.

[quiet breach]

true

blueprint zooping then 😂

or machine zooping

[fringe pawn]

Hm, my DNA cap farming is greatly impeded by the tendency of cliff and nuclear hogs to fall through the ground when they're throwing rocks.

[vapid gorge]

that's what the big water extractor has. 5 outputs. takes like 1000mw fully clocked though

[vapid gorge]

5 outputs

[bleak ivy]

is there a way to copy data over when middle-mousing to pick from the world? i have a sign with a bunch of presets configured, and id like to be able to grab it from the world and place it elsewhere preconfigured

id use a blueprint but idk if i can use that to place signs on walls

[vapid gorge]

ctrl c and ctrl v to copy paste settings

just like reg machines

[vapid gorge]

and try it. Or have a bp with signs AND walls. Can delete the wall later

[bleak ivy]

ive been doing that id just like it if i could have the sign have those settings upon being placed so i didnt have to go and paste it to each one

[unborn ermine]

If you can place an extractor IN the water with the build, BP would work, just have to see if they can be placed before you make the BP.

[edgy leaf]

no its worse.

if you built a blueprint (no water extractor) and place it in the world then u can place a water extractor overlapping with it

so if you want to make a housing for ur water extractors then u have to place ur water extractor first and then the blueprint

you cant blueprint water extractors, i dont mind that its not possible tbh

[unborn ermine]

Not exactly? I have placed foundations before extractors before, assuming its the same with BP.

[edgy leaf]

nope, not the same.

it not being working is exactly what im talking about.

[unborn ermine]

Could be a problem with things outside of foundations? I kind of want to test with my garbage foundation spam test

[edgy leaf]

no.

its a known thing.

[unborn ermine]

Well Im going to try it anyways, since Im making some oil stuff in a bit (or at least prepping)

[edgy leaf]

yea try it, it doesnt work. if u find a way to make it work id be very glad

it worked when i built it manually. turned it into a blueprint, placed the blueprint instead of building it manually and it didnt work.

i remembered reading here that its an issue and felt a bit silly for forgetting, so i had to align the water extractor myself and then place the blueprint

[unborn ermine]

Ok PC is dying need to restart it

[edgy leaf]

rip

[unborn ermine]

Loading the game taking forever and music starts and stops

[unborn ermine]

This pad is a a BP, and its fine for me. I might try to build something later, maybe BP the shell of the BP you are making.

[edgy leaf]

make a bp with walls so that the extractor is inside the hitbox of the bp

[edgy leaf]

i think it works because the water extractor is on top of the bp, not inside it

[unborn ermine]

That must be walls or something, this tower is also a BP.

Will do in a sec

[edgy leaf]

i think they're talking about the same thing?

AHA, baldur said it. so it must be true

#satisfactory message

[unborn ermine]

Its walls

Anything with walls just bugs out.

[edgy leaf]

well i dont have any walls in my bp

so its probabl catwalks and or railinggs too

[unborn ermine]

I made this with walls and it dosent work

Removed the walls before making a BP and tested this as well.

[edgy leaf]

what a strange bug

[unborn ermine]

Certain buildables = NOTHING

[fringe pawn]

Are you out in the ocean off the coast of rocky desert or something? Check whether the water extractor places with or without the foundation.

Big chunks of water closer to the shore than you'd think aren't 'mapped' or whatever the right term would be to allow water extractors.

[unborn ermine]

Its the same spot for all the tests.

gold coast

if water can be swam in, extractors can be placed, all I know.

[brisk smelt]

north ocean has better water

[unborn ermine]

Thats nice, I guess.

[quiet breach]

Is it warmer?

[edgy leaf]

tastes better

question how do i calculate how much plastic and rubber ill actually need?

ah nvm i figured it out.

thats 22709.24 plastic and only 9181.76 rubber

i think.

oh fuck.

thats only 5124.3 rubber?????

[ember fractal]

Can a single freight car transport 1200/m of something that stacks to 100 units? i.e. raw quartz

[edgy leaf]

with 1200 belts, yes

[ember fractal]

In the freight platform it says 1,058 / m

Yeh, I'm using 1200 belts

[edgy leaf]

it can go as high as 1792/m

heres the graph for it

[ember fractal]

I have dual mk6 belts coming out of the platform into a mk2 storage

[edgy leaf]

how often does a train come?

[ember fractal]

lemme check, it's not a far ride

[edgy leaf]

it needs to come between every 54.16 seconds and every 160 seconds. if a train arrives less often than every 160 seconds then it wont work, if it arrives more often than every 54.16 seconds then it also wont work.

[edgy leaf]

the time includes loading and unloading

[ember fractal]

is that roundtrip?

[edgy leaf]

start a timer when the train enters the station and stop the timer when it enters the station again.

[edgy leaf]

yes.

[ember fractal]

i'm gonna time depart beep to depart beep on the same station

3 minutes and 2 seconds roundtrip

[edgy leaf]

thats 182

[unborn ermine]

Oh I think I know what it is
The BP height is what the extractor sees!
I made a bowl using foundations and it decided "NOPE"
But deeper water than the top of the highest part of the BP? it starts working.

[edgy leaf]

the predicteed throughput capacity is 1054

[ember fractal]

which is around what I'm getting currently

[edgy leaf]

holy fuck is this thing accurate

[ember fractal]

I think I'll need to do 2 freight carts of 600 each then

[edgy leaf]

u can just add a second train to the line, which would half the time between train arrivals

[ember fractal]

true, except this current train is point to point <--- >

[edgy leaf]

ah, yea then thats ur only option

[edgy leaf]

im flabbergasted at how accurate this is holy

[ember fractal]

no worries, I have room to double the freight stations

[ebon crater]

anyone have any ideas for how to split this water? wondering if just some regular manifolding would work

[ember fractal]

I would just have completely separate and isolated lines for each of those. And have your water extractors produce slightly more than the line requires.

That would save you tons of headache troubleshooting if something goes wrong

[lethal condor]

You don’t. Just make sets of pipes with the appropriate number of extractors each

[ember fractal]

For the 1590 factory, you'll need 3 separate mk2 pipes, try to get either the exact amount in each or slightly more

Trying to balance and manifold pipes usually ends in disaster

[lethal condor]

I’d also recommend pumping them up into a tower first and not load machines from below.

[ember fractal]

Yah, top feeding usually avoids a lot of problems

[lethal condor]

And then loop the manifold feeding the machines back to the start

[ember fractal]

That also avoids a lot of problems lol

[ebon crater]

I mean I guess the main problem is just how I got the extractors setup. I didnt want to have more pipes than I need.

[unborn ermine]

Only posting here to be consistent
So yeah layered BP do work if you place the base, extractor, layer, and finally your greebling.
BUT if you remove the extractor, water height becomes an issue again.

[lethal condor]

Two extractors can feed a 600 pipe

So just add up all the water you need and work off how many 600 pipes you can fill

[ebon crater]

I never do that, I always just oversaturate the water lines and make exact numbers so no yellow lights ever. and if it runs out due to wierd pipe shenanigans i overclock temporarily

[ebon crater]

im too scared bc it wont look good and i wont be able to make it look good. ill give it a shot tho, already have pumps installed so it might be ez work

im also carrying half my fluids(oil) in trains so im not uh, a model player lets say

[lethal condor]

What I do is just put storage tanks on the roof

And send the fluid down a pipe that I put a pillar over

[ebon crater]

my factories dont have roofs let alone walls

i might try my hand at some deco though

thats gonna require quite some fixing so ill probably work on that another day, thanks tho everyone

[lethal condor]

You could also just put a tower down at the end of the manifold and consider it an extra building

[ebon crater]

yeah

my main problem is im gonna have to OC some gens to make this work and I was trying to avoid that. welp. oh well i guess.

[lethal condor]

You mean extractors?

You should always fully overclock production

[ebon crater]

i mean like water extractors

I overclocked my oil extractors

[lethal condor]

Yeah just overlock all production buildings

Unless you’re limited by belt speed

[bleak ivy]

does the 0.5m nudge just stop working if you alter your keybinds?

i have ctrl bound to crouch, and C to the stuff ctrl used to be, but 0.5m nudge doesnt function if im holding ctrl or c

[lethal condor]

Depends on what you’re trying to nudge

[bleak ivy]

in this case trying to align this blueprint

[ebon crater]

water is an infinite recource tho

[lethal condor]

You can’t half nudge walls

[lethal condor]

Yes but my patience is not

[bleak ivy]

i figure but this is a blueprint

[lethal condor]

And connecting 2.5x more extractors is deadge

[wet python]

is there a nice ratio of rocket fuel + turbo fuel using the compacted coal byproduct?

[ebon crater]

completley fair

[wet python]

ouch I can't even make rocket fuel yet...

[ebon crater]

there we go.

scim wants me to have numbers down to the 10^-3 despite the game only handling to 10^-2 so i had to round up, but we got there

[proud totem]

Does anyone have designs for handling many conveyer belts? I am working on a setup where I will have many lines of conveyors and pipes going to many machines, and want to avoid the wall of belts stacked, but I need to be able to split the belts off to actually get to the machines

[brisk smelt]

more details please

how many belts

how many machines

[proud totem]

Sure. I guess I meant more in a general sense (I know that isn't very helpful, I am more looking for typical design considerations/tips you guys use). Something that is tileable or easily configurable to hold larger number of belts. Like 4+ belts per item type, so potentially like 12+ belts (2 sets of 4 for input, 1 set of 4 for output as an example)

My main problem is trying to split items off the belts when the split may need to jump over/under the other belts in order to not clip

[brisk smelt]

conveyor lifts are your best friend

[ember fractal]

I'm using Quartz Purification and Distilled Silica to produce 4,500 Quartz Crystal and 8,100 Silica per min

The input is 6 belts of 1,200 Raw Quartz each

It's a decent amount.
I'm planning to use a bunch of the crystal to make crystal oscillators.

[distant aurora]

last in first out, and interact with the outermost belts in a cluster first. like if you have a bus of belts of the same item 4 tall and 4 wide, if you wanna take a belt away, take the upper corners

ok this is pretty hard to put into words

[proud totem]

No that made pretty good sense actually

[distant aurora]

example: I'm making a big bridge to bring all the bauxite in the map to the swamp for processing. the very lowest belts are from the farthest end of the map and others get stacked on top of that and outwards on each layer as more nodes are picked up along the way

and those bottom belts are also the hardest to access so the top belts will get used first

[proud totem]

And so when you add a belt to the bridge from a new node that would go onto a new layer (i.e. that belt is the first on its layer), do you start at the center of the layer and work out, or just like left to right?

[distant aurora]

yeah, start at the center. if you start at the edges it makes it harder to add belts to the center later

and when you wanna take belts away you start from the edges cause those are the most accessible

[pastel obsidian]

Logigistic floors are good for giving you space for belt work

[proud totem]

My main problem (at least currently) is that the floor would need to go above since I am using liquids and don't want to deal with bottom-feeding. But my buildings are refineries, which are quite tall and put the floors way up high (granted that is all aesthetics)

Or I just give myself hundreds of meters of HL to make bottom feeding work

[pastel obsidian]

you can use pipes on level one and belts in the basement

[proud totem]

Oh maybe I'll do that, all the belts below and pipes on the floor level since then there won't be as many to deal with

[distant aurora]

yeah i just do pipes level with the refineries. it's less tidy but simpler to set up

[pastel obsidian]

You really just need to think about where you want pipes and where you want belts

If you need some inspiration

[fervent iris]

@proud totem if you are not already doing this, the secret to beautiful factories is "logistics layers". I like to build about 8 meter sections (that is 2X 4mm blocks) between floors of anything I'm building that is of value, which supports comfortably up to 4 layers of belts, 3 of pipe, and can be a robust way to get things going where they need to go

the simplest possible way is to pick your "ground" and just build up around 9 meters from that, 8 meter clear zone, then 1 foundation on top as your new "floor"

having verticality to use is a HUGE benefit when you need to re-plan to route lots of stuff

never build just flat on the ground it limits your options

If you want to get fancy, 12-16 meters can start to hide enter production lines inside the logistics layer, smaller buildings like constructors, smelters, foundries, and assemblers

[proud totem]

So I guess then my next question is, how do I make the factory visually look good? (subjective again, sorry really just brainstorming out load) It seems like a lot of it is going to have to be a ways above the actual ground to allow for other areas to not be. My other builds just kinda went with it and I built large supports to "hold" the building up

[fervent iris]

good you get that at least

if you want good looking stuff, you have to plan ahead and think about the overall structure

and if you are the kind of player who is ok with overlapped elements/clipping

Best advice is to start simple by using ramps and inverted ramps to create more than just 90 degree visual movement in the frame of the buildings

accent with painted and metal beams through the sides of things and you quickly get some nice if a bit brutalist buildings

concrete is the easiest material to make look good b/c it "tiles" very well

[distant aurora]

my best advice to make stuff look good is to add depth to walls. add pillars, beams, etc to break up the big flat surfaces

[pastel obsidian]

give yourself more space as well

[fervent iris]

take wahtever space you THINK you need and triple it

[proud totem]

Could you guys offer some critiques on my most recent build? I feel it looks a bit boxy, and I don't like how it has to be elevated above the ground (granted in this case that wasn't necessary because it was on water which is pretty flat) and want to improve for my next one

[distant aurora]

that honestly looks pretty decent already. as i said just some pillars on the walls to add some depth

[pastel obsidian]

add some depth to it

[distant aurora]

it goes a long way

[fervent iris]

yeah you play like me. No clipping

[distant aurora]

but yeah most factories have to be elevated off the ground in some way unfortunately. there is very little actually flat ground in this game so that's a big constraint

[fervent iris]

Absolutely. Trying to be close to ground has wrecked a lot of my early work taht I'm still recovering from

only do it near ocean flats

[proud totem]

You should see the inside. There is a section of walls that I had to clip into eachother because I messed up during logistics and had to put walls in the middle of a foundation

[proud totem]

Gotcha, so I guess I'm gonna have to get creative to avoid the "support" pillar look

[fervent iris]

elevate a massive new foundation for yourself

and then start from that new flat point

[lethal wharf]

I was just about to type out a really long question about why my fuel generators aren't producing the expected output when I realized I don't actually have all 150 of the generators placed 😛

[proud totem]

goodbye scenic nature, im planning to bring the outside of this foundation down to the ground to give it a solid look

[fervent iris]

I'm also insane and try to minimize tree destruction

So I float a lot of very large platforms over some creative areas

but if you run big enough support pillars down, it can still work

play around with the higher areas too, if you build things into cliffsides you can get a lot of real estate without things feeling too floaty

the cliffs around the central lake are excellent for this, it supports a VERY large rocket/turbo/ion factory this way

and you basically never have to rise above the cliff layer that is "ground" altitude of the red forest

Everything in the northern map is also good for this, and some of the blue crater's southern expanse

[proud totem]

Yeah, I do miss my dune desert playthrough, I had some neat builds that looked good with the wide expanse of the sand

[fervent iris]

I build at such a scale I'm not sure I'll ever have the structures lookin good, but I will eventually get there

also before I do this for a third time, is there any way to make my fuel gens fully consume a fuel type before I switch them over to a new one?

manually emptying hundreds of gens is not fun

[proud totem]

Ok what like the remaining 0.2 fuel that is sometimes left?

[fervent iris]

yup

I emptied 800 manually so far, it took hours

such is life with nearly 1GW of power

[proud totem]

Does pasting settings work? I know on some machines it removes their input, and that might be faster since you at least don't have to open the menu

[fervent iris]

not on fuel gens 😦

[proud totem]

RIP

[fervent iris]

I adore pasting though, for everything else

would be such a good QOL to make pasting work on gens

or have a "pipeline flush" work on the gens!

[proud totem]

Does it not work at all? Like not even clock speed?

[fervent iris]

not at all

you can ctrl+click to add the 3 power shards, but thats all the help you get

[proud totem]

Darn

[fervent iris]

you have to manually dump the old fuel and OC the gen to max

[proud totem]

Dang, currently with the size of my build, I can only handle 945 raw iron turning into ingots, refineries are so big

Because I am also going to handle copper and caterium

Idk if there is even enough water here for this though, this may be too much

[fervent iris]

🙂

that smiley is threateningly large, sorry

your entire build would fit inside one corner of one corner of my smallest oil rig

[proud totem]

Nah, I only need like 12 water extractors, I'm fineeee

[fervent iris]

its crazy how productive you can make oil, and nuke is another level entirely

[proud totem]

Yeah I guess 81 refineries isn't that much

[fervent iris]

refs are too big, hate em

I tucked a hilarious "logistics layer" with refineries into a test factory, remember how I said use 8 meters?

just the logistics layer is over the side of a cliff with 50 meters of height for the refineries lol

[proud totem]

The more I plan the more I sympathize with lets game it out. At least his factory worked 😂

[dark lagoon]

i made a blueprint of 4 max overcloked fuel gens for my thing would rather die then place 3 shards and overclock every gen manualy

[pastel obsidian]

Moving the slider is what kills it for me

[dark lagoon]

yeah, bc mine are at 240% instead of 250 bc it just worked out better that way, literaly never would have done it by hand

i placed 36 gens by hand before i gave up

[pastel obsidian]

You really should be able to set the recipe and clock speed of a building and replace current buildings like we can upgrade miners or power poles

[wind spade]

You can tho?

[turbid drift]

anyone have a link to a train station best practice example? my stations usually work perfectly fine but just fishing for possible improvement. For context, ive put an example of my usual station build in https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/1296336084237811783 (note, I drive on the left so my tracks might seem backwards to Americans)

the waiting bay on the right of the stations is probably useless, but it seems off without it 😛

[pastel obsidian]

No issues with it you do have a very long distance between your path and block at the entrance and exit but

Are you planning on having more than one train go to these stations

[spare jolt]

i hope this abomination will work properly

[vapid gorge]

thanks, I hate it

[spare jolt]

the consequences of having to use 2 mk2 pipes because you have 620 of fluid instead of 600 😭

[vapid gorge]

I mean that's entirely on you - you could have grouped the producers differently

2x 310 lines, much simpler and safer

[spare jolt]

and that's exactly what I did

[vapid gorge]

and let me guess. Vertical manifold?

[spare jolt]

i mean that I can't use 1 pipe to move the fluid, I need 2

[turbid drift]

not at the moment but im planning for it, hense the waiting bays

[vapid gorge]

but yo udon't have to merge them.

[spare jolt]

uhhh, I guess? I want a loooooong pipe that will cover all 148.8 fuel gens

[vapid gorge]

yup. gl with that mess

[pastel obsidian]

I love the creativity

[spare jolt]

i don't, but then the Circle™️ be asymmetric

[spare jolt]

what's wrong with that?

[pastel obsidian]

Novel solutions are what make this game so great

[vapid gorge]

it's 2 manifolds, linked to them over and over, over multiple floors

[pastel obsidian]

Cobalt only likes approved designs and solutions

[vapid gorge]

basically everything to avoid for continous flow

[spare jolt]

ok, so I will have to make them asymmetric

[vapid gorge]

well, you should if you care about it working at 100%

but there's a lot of issues to overcome doing a vertical manifold too

they tricky

[spare jolt]

for example?

[vapid gorge]

fluids HATE elevation changes within manifolds

it completely screws the flow

now, @stark spire has talked about feeding from the top, and creating pipe humps on each floor to make sure the level above is full before flooding down. And apparently that can make it work

like this, before the pipe continous down

[spare jolt]

well fuck me i guess

[vapid gorge]

so, in theory, if you feed it from the top, and have one of these humps on each floor before going down, it could work

but you'd want to talk to shade more about it, I completely avoid this sort of thing

I strongly suspect a lot of people see other's doing fuel towers w/o knowing if its actually a 100% efficient set up. cause I bet a ton of them arn't

[spare jolt]

too bad, I've already finished my rocket fuel tower after what, 80 hours?

[vapid gorge]

wait this is rocket fuel?

[spare jolt]

uhhhh

yea

[vapid gorge]

ok the feed from top and hump solution doesn't work on gas afaik

gas doesn't have grav priority

[spare jolt]

well... umm... the problem still persists because the turbofuel tower also produces plastic and rubber and turbo heavy fuel, so all these fluids have to go up in one way or another.

i tried to avoid vertical manifolds not because of what you said, but because of simplicity and aesthetics, but I still may have them here and there

[pastel obsidian]

It looks good build it and be proud of what you have done

[vapid gorge]

so for the liquid the solution I gave? probably will work.

you could follow up with the person in this link here #design-and-architecture message

[spare jolt]

no, I was talking about the tower that just produces all the stuff, this is the second one with generators

[vapid gorge]

we were trying to problem solve this exact thing with gas the other day, they might have got it working/

[prisma kraken]

gases shouldn't have a problem with verticality, but i've not tried. with fluids, when you have consumers on the same manifold at different heights, you will have a lot of problems

[pastel obsidian]

It's more of a problem with the way the game teaches people about gases and fluids than anything else

[vapid gorge]

yeah gasses try to even themselves out over the entire manifold. Anything with so many points of input, spread across floors... I don't like the flow situation it presents

[prisma kraken]

idk, i think fluids generally work if you don't do iffy things

[vapid gorge]

@robust vessel you ever get your gas tower going?

[prisma kraken]

in any event there's nothing that forces you to put all liquid or gas into a single pipe

easy enough to run a feed for every floor

[vapid gorge]

aesthetics can mess you up though 😛

[spare jolt]

either way it has to work or I'm going to buy a ticket to Skovde with malicious intent /jk

[vapid gorge]

one of the positive things about fuel power stations, even if it only runs at 90% it's not the end of hte world

[prisma kraken]

yeah, well, sure, but lack of planning is lack of planning 🙂

so far in 1.0, i've really had zero fluid problems

one or two pipes that didn't connect through a floorhole and an oil line that didn't like mk2 pipes after a 300/300 split

i guess that isn't zero, but they were easy fixes

[spare jolt]

what's with the second one though?

[dark lagoon]

What fuel are you using if it's rocket you bypass a lot of fluid weirdness bc it's gas, also this guy is kinda wrong as long as your supplying enough the manifold will even out and fill all your pipes and gens eventually

[prisma kraken]

i was pushing a 600 line of crude up a distance and then splitting it into 300/300 at the top. mk2 pipe should have worked, but the game didn't like it

it was a pretty small pipe network too, only 8 consumers (4 for each 300)

[dark lagoon]

Would loop your end pipe back to safe to be safe but honestly you're probably fine

[spare jolt]

yes, it's rocket fuel. i dunno, I still gotta start it and check it, because it's not finished yet

[spare jolt]

still don't understand what's so bad. mk2 should evenly divide into two mk1's, no?

[dark lagoon]

If you're supplying enough fuel you'll be fine then, would try to make one input the bottom of the tower one top if possible to make sure it splits perfectly but even without It only being 10 above throughput you would probably be fine, don't need to loop rocket fuel bc it's a gas

[prisma kraken]

i was using mk2 pipes after the split - the game just didn't like that, even after looping the sides of the manifold together

[spare jolt]

ahhhh

[prisma kraken]

easy solution was just to downgrade the pipes to mk1 after the split

[dark lagoon]

That's a fluid issue, gas ignores them

[spare jolt]

unless I want to uglify my build, it's impossible, so I gotta deal with what I gotta deal with

I already have a few pipes outside of it because I didn't account for a nitrogen pipe

since it was initially planned to be a turbofuel factory, not rocket fuel

[dark lagoon]

I think you'll still be fine tbf really hard to tell without entire build but fluids/gasses througput really doesn't matter if you have more then one fluid/gas entry

[prisma kraken]

easy conversion if you use the base rf recipe

[spare jolt]

yea and that's what I went with

[dark lagoon]

Yeah, your only issue would maybe be how close they are so they'll be flowing through the same pipes if that makes sense vrs equally spaced you can fit 1200 fluid per min in mk 2 pipelines instead of 600

Closer they are less you "gain"

[barren monolith]

is there a consensus on what turbo into rocket fuel recipe combos are the best?

tried looking it up in the chat history but it was hella confusing

[vapid gorge]

you can only have 'best' in this game if you define what is better

[barren monolith]

prioritizing output even if it requires more complexity

[vapid gorge]

so 'most RF per TF' ?

regardless of any extra resource you ened to throw in?

[weary lotus]

which recipes give the highest raw quartz -> silica ratio

[barren monolith]

Most RF in general I guess? Not sure if putting 100% of the nitrogen into is the best idea. That's why i'm wondering what others have done

[barren monolith]

1 sec i got you bro

[vapid gorge]

well using tools to maximise rocket fuel from turbo I got this? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=97rwoqSz3kaswQHsGMPP

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch Silica

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Silica

[barren monolith]

Look where I put ratio.

techinically Cheap Silica is the most silica but if you also want quartz crystals I'd say go with Quartz Purification into Distilled Silica

but it's a far more complex build

[weary lotus]

god im gonna need 3600 fucking silica uhm

[barren monolith]

you doing aluminum or something rn?

[weary lotus]

yeah

this is what i get for using sloppy alumina

[barren monolith]

Yeah it's rough. but it's cool to build giant af factories. dont give up

[turbid drift]

this is about 2400 silica... its not really all that bad

[barren monolith]

ooo thanks. I've been playing with the site but still learning all the functions on it. ^_^

[turbid drift]

and yeah... pretty fun build

[barren monolith]

I went straight into building one giant factory to process every possible quartz i could mine lol. took so long

[turbid drift]

mine's to cover the silica and quartz i need for nuclear plants

now ive got all the ingredients mass produced to process all 2100/m from uranium nodes

[barren monolith]

oooh good good. yeah you'll have plenty of materials for crystal oscillators and stuff

[barren monolith]

now you gotta find a use for all the power 😛

[turbid drift]

yeah thats my biggest problem now 🙂 lol... im sinking the plutionium at the moment while i figure it out

[tranquil oasis]

I'm so lazy setupping more aluminum productions

does anyone have an mk2 blueprint that skips the boring bauxite/coal/sulfur to aluminum ingot part

all recipes unlocked

[dark lagoon]

Just look Wich one turns the least turbo fuel into the most rocket fuel per min then

The turbo fuel crafts seemed pretty equal when I was mathng it out yesterday but I also don't really Google that shit but I landed on turbo fuel and nitric acid one (I think that's default cant memeber

[vapid gorge]

takes a bit of practice but well worth it

[vast jungle]

Adaptive Control Units are DIsgusting...

[fallow siren]

who would have thought making a factory for 8/min rotors and 4/min modular frames will be this big, maybe its this big because its just a single floor

[prisma kraken]

you have a lot of free space in there, but in general, everything you build will take quite a lot of space, its sort of something you start to get a feel for as you gain experience, but embracing verticality helps quite a bit with space considerations

oft times even just routing belts through a subfloor or on a ceiling can really free up a lot of space

[vast jungle]

as soon as you discover Blueprints its also much easier to build factories with multiple floors and modular "groups" of machines

[prisma kraken]

one other small thing i'll note is that the base recipes for a lot of things kind of stink

but yeah, that's about how big an intro iron build should be 🙂

[static pivot]

It depend a lot for most of them. In some situations, the base recipe is better (I'am never crafting any screws again tho' xD)

[vast jungle]

alternative Recipes give you a lot flexibility for most situations...

[fringe pawn]

Buying one of every statue doesn't secretly unlock anything right? Otherwise coming up on my second nut.

[royal yacht]

Afaik only one statue does

[bitter moss]

Question: did they change any recipe quantities with the patch the other day?
I just need a sanity check

I had some math in my head a few days ago and went on with a massive production line, only to realize after completing Logistics for it a little while ago, that I don't have anywhere near the input for it.

[autumn current]

What’s a good minimum amount of cooling systems automated

[vocal adder]

No change in recipes from what I can see in the community ressources game files

[tender knoll]

hi, is this design good for buffering fluid freight station unloading?

[bitter moss]

Then I indeed gaslit myself on CCoal, lol

[weak rose]

Imo, i would not transport fluids instead just process them at the extraction site

[tender knoll]

Thank you, I am aware of this option, that is not what I asked

[spice orbit]

Is making aluminium ingots with silica a good recipe?

[blissful epoch]

yeah, i think its the best for your aluminium. but it costs quartz which can be rare.
and sloppy alumina solution is the most efficient for scrap

[livid valve]

Few players are well versed in the intricacies of fluid freight dynamics considering all the rest there is to work around with fluid dynamics, unfortunately. I do think it looks quite functional as a general buffer however. Great aesthetics as well.

I'm not sure that it would solve the problems with fluid freight cars, but those problems are not the most common in the first place, so I would test it without and see if this helps or just functions as an aesthetic piece.

[tender knoll]

Thank you!

[vast jungle]

I think it looks okay, but there should be only one incoming/outgoing pipe to the factory... and two to the train station. Otherwise there is no point in buffering
unless you will be underusing one pipe

[livid valve]

Fluid freight is already mostly stable as the the station has a good amount of it's own storage, but I have heard of and can understand some of the uncommon issues people seem to have to fix with them. I personally don't use it often as like most I build factories around the fluids required, but I have tried it before with nitrogen and didn't have any issues. That is very anecdotal however and I don't remember the details of input req's and such but I had no issues

[livid valve]

I think the idea is aesthetic more than functional. There are those who would sacrifice brutal practicality for looks and have fun that way

[vast jungle]

the issue (similar to the normal station) is that fluid/item flow blcoks during loading/unloading... thats why a lot of people attach an external container (with a faster connection to the station than to the factory)... to get uninterrupted item transfer

[wind spade]

yeah, though I'd use one pipe per platform only, so one of the two junctions on the side will only have one pipe from it

also I'd raise the buffer

[wind spade]

anything is a good recipe if you like it

[livid valve]

I was unaware that the freight platform could not transmit items during loading, only that it took a bit to finish loading. mb

[vast jungle]

if you have quartz nearby it is...

[vast jungle]

for items you usually cram an ISC near each station, attached with two belts... and then one belt to the factory... this way you can get one full belt to/from the factory, despite the train blocking the stations belts

[livid valve]

ISC? I am adept at the game but am no veteran, sorry. I don't quite understand what you mean

[vast jungle]

Industrial Storage Container (the large one with two inputs and two outputs)

[livid valve]

Oh I see

[vast jungle]

it fits in parallel to a train station with enough space to attach it directly to the station and get a belt away on the other side

very compact construction... you can have two train stations side by side (each consuming 5 foundations) and still have enough space for the ISC

when I think more about this, this could be a BP? Not sure if I can attach a train station in a BP to an existing train station...

[livid valve]

That way it's filled as fast as possible and during the downtime has two outputs to continue production given it's buffer capacity

a blueprint? BP?

[vast jungle]

lets say its an "outgoing" train station... your factory delivers a full belt. During loading the input from the factory is then stored in the ISC and can still drain afterwards because two belts connect the ISC and the station.

Yes... a (MK2) blueprint.
This way you can have a station with the ISC and belts already there... still, don't know if they would attach

[livid valve]

Ah gotcha. I doubt they would attach if they were different BPs, I don't think BPs interact like that, but I also am not a BP stan

[faint plover]

hi, is anyone using satisfactory-calculator ?

[livid valve]

everyone is 🙂

[vast jungle]

there is no other tool with a good map... for calculation itself I prefer SatisfactoryTools

[faint plover]

could you explain something to me please?

I am in tier 2, is there a thing such as smart splitter? As the site is telling me to split the resources "unevenly"

Or maybe i got something setup wrongly on the site?

[vast jungle]

splitters automatically do the right thing as soon as the "don't want that much" belt blocks back to the splitter

[wind spade]

also, following SCIMs weird plans is usually not much recommended

[deft lichen]

There is no ratio splitter, because oversupplied machines won't take more than they consume

[faint plover]

right, makes sense

[weak rose]

Wont be an issue, once one is full, the others will fill up aswel

[vast jungle]

the numbers at the lines are just there to give you an idea how much needs to run on this belt

[wind spade]

and the splitter image is there just to confuse you

[livid valve]

So essentially just split things the way that the site is telling you, give it a minute to fill up the machines and it will work as the site suggests, if that makes sense

[faint plover]

it does, thank you :)

[weak rose]

As long as the ipunt is the exact amount of the items you need it will distribute itself properly

[faint plover]

may i ask why? why else are you guys using the site for? other than the map

[vast jungle]

depending on the consumption/stack size/number-of-machines it might take a while, but yes...

[wind spade]

usually it's way easier to just make a manifold

[livid valve]

It sets up a lot of very very weird plans and awkward decimal setups that doesn't always make sense irl

better to use the SCIM as a guide for your factory than as a rule for it.

[silver sand]

Question about Dimensional Depot Uploader. Is it capped at 240/min per uploader or per item

[livid valve]

Per uploader

[wind spade]

tho I don't use that site much 😄

[frosty owl]

Personally, I didn't use that calculator at all, as it can lead to wrong results (fluid loops) and generally loads quite slowly

[frosty owl]

Waaay too many ads 🙄

[silver sand]

What are ads? Don't you use an ad blocker?

[wind spade]

I've just recently opened it without an adblocker and yeah holy crap

use Tools, no ads there, don't even need an adblocker, unless you're bothered by that one analytics script that just sends data to my own server

[frosty owl]

No. I don't like to feel like a freeloader

[silver sand]

To each their own.

[livid valve]

Most players don't build factories with the SCIM at all, it's just a sometimes handy tool to help with math. But at the end of the day it is just a calculator that doesn't care about build req's or setup constraints. Poke around it once in a while if you're stumped but it's better to use that site as a map than as a factory planner. You'll learn how to meake great factories yourself and coming here and touching on the SCIM will just be augments for your factory planning I promise

[hexed spruce]

right lads.
I have 3 bauxite nodes each outputting 150, 300 and 480 ore respectively.
and i need to make sure they equally go into the two freight loaders.
i have mark 5 belts avaiable, but i am not sure how to handle this

[frosty owl]

BTW, @wind spade did you hear how sushi can make for "programmable" manufacturers?

[vast jungle]

for 1 Euro a month you can get SCIM add-free... thats quite low for how much I use the map ^^

[frosty owl]

Wait, really?!
I didn't know it had an ad-free option

[robust vessel]

@vapid gorge - continuing over here in correct channel

currently maxing around 37gw, only been running ~10min or so but I think I chased down all the production bottlenecks.

Going to leave it for like an hour and see if it stabilizes

[vast jungle]

minimal patreon tier with the same email get rid of the mails

[frosty owl]

"get rid of the mails"?

[vast jungle]

ads -.-

(fingers faster than brain)

[wind spade]

you donate to their paypal, but need to do monthly, or patreon

[frosty owl]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks!

[livid valve]

I use OperaGX with it's adblock enabled and have never seen an ad on the SCIM. Spyware for sure don't get me wrong but it works 🤷

[scenic cloud]

split each into two, and merge 3 to 1

[vast jungle]

I like it when sites don't become greedy and start with 10 Euros/month or more... I also think a LOT more people are willing to pay a $/Euro a month than 10 or more.

[wind spade]

Tools allows you to donate any amount, afaik I had to set 1 USD per month as minimum because that's what Patreon is limited to. You can donate via Paypal as well, there doesn't seem to be low limit

[round forum]

If I use all but one uranium node for nuclear power only up to plutonium fuel rods (which are then sinked) how much power would they generate? I'm sort of tempted to use them combined with 10.8k rocket fuel (possible by slooped blenders) because I'm genuinely unsure if 647,999.375 MW is enough for late game things like slooped converters and particle accelerators. Like would I need the power boost from nuclear power with those numbers?

[vast jungle]

650 GW sounds more than enough unless you want to get the Space-Elevator parts FAST

[round forum]

I want to do one power plant that will last me several years of updates and new content being added lol. If I manage to sloop every part of the rocket fuel process it'd result in 1,295,998.75 MW but from what I vaguely know isn't 1 TW average for nuclear?

[vast jungle]

1 TW "average" ?

[round forum]

Yeah?

Seriously, what are the numbers for using 2/3 of the uranium nodes for power up to plutonium (which is then sinked)? I want perspective here.

[vast jungle]

I think using 2/3 of a single resource of the whole map is not "average"...
but the exact energy output would depend on the recipes you use

[wintry marlin]

i need all 3 of those unlocked to make a no-waste nuclear power setup, right?

[royal yacht]

I believe so yeah

[ashen girder]

You only need Leading-Edge to unlock Particle Enrichment, and yeah, Particle Enrichment is what unlocks reprocessing Uranium waste.

[ashen girder]

IIRC the baseline max is 50.4 UFR/min if you consume all the uranium and don't sloop or transmute anything.

[wintry marlin]

i thought i need plutonium fuel rods to sink them? or is wiki outdated on that?

[ashen girder]

And to be clear: I completed the entire game with a 60GW power network. 650GW is more than adequate. And yes, I slooped and OC'd both an encoder and an accelerator to do so.

[ashen girder]

"reprocessing Uranium waste" = "making PFRs"

[wintry marlin]

oh mb

didnt fully read what u typed

[round forum]

Soo did the math on the calculator, if I sloop the manufacturers I'd be making.....28.8 uranium fuel rods/minute.....

[ashen girder]

50.4 assumes no slooping.

[round forum]

Huh, that's 144 nuclear generators...360,000MW

[wintry marlin]

welp, lets try to get supercommputers, turbomotors, and cooling systems on this power budget

[ashen girder]

That's doable, honestly, as long as you aren't slooping or OCing a bunch of it.

Oh, wait, I got numbers backwards.

6GW? 😅 I'd try to get to at least 10 or 15GW.

[wintry marlin]

ye, the top line is max cons

[ashen girder]

Go build a lil Rocket Fuel plant.

[wintry marlin]

yeah, im running on turbo rn

[ashen girder]

Yeah, upgrade.

It's accelerators and encoders where power gets a lil extra.

[wintry marlin]

ye probably have to, was hoping to get to nuclear without upgrading power again

[ashen girder]

Since accelerators peak at 1.5GW and encoders at 2GW.

[ashen girder]

I mean, you probably can?

[wintry marlin]

ye, i mainly wanna get to nuclear before i do another big power inbetween

[ashen girder]

So start working on Uranium.

[wintry marlin]

but i need the 3 factories i said for that...

dont want uranium with waste

[glad shell]

Soo I'm using 600 crude oil for power and eventually I've made 92 fuel gens because I'm using the 5 heavy oil and 5 coal recipe and seems like a good amount of them can't get enough turbofuel even tho I thought I did the math right

[wintry marlin]

and i dont have supercomputer factory yet, and will need cooling sys, and turbomotors

[ashen girder]

Build half the uranium now, get it online, then get the other stuff running, then build the waste processing stuff, let it eat the accrued waste, then bring the rest of it online.

[wintry marlin]

yeah, i was thinking abou that, not sure how big of a storage i will need

[ashen girder]

Can always just build more onto it if it's taking longer than expected.

And yeah, the most complicated thing UFRs require are ECRs.

[vast jungle]

build modular... get results while you build more! 😄

[wintry marlin]

ok, how tf would this ever be the realistic way to make 67 plasstic/min

[wind spade]

why not?

[wintry marlin]

it seems mildlly overkill

[wind spade]

most oil efficient

[wintry marlin]

yeah i technically understand why, but it seems overly complicated... will just eyeball it probably

[round forum]

The calculator seemingly has a large issue with putting a bunch of small steps for like 0.7000 or less of an item, even at the cost of more power, resources, and steps.

[wind spade]

Tools?

[vast jungle]

the imbalance between Residual Rubber and Plastic is just funny I think

[faint plover]

will I always need the smart plating each tier? I see that after getting to phase 2, the production number just increased.

[ashen girder]

Consider using default recipes. It'd take 4 refineries making default plastic to get to 67/min. And now you have 33.5 HOR/min to deal with. If you turn that into fuel you're just.. doing the same thing but in a worse way?

[ashen girder]

You need at least 1000 in each phase. 4300 total across all 5 phases.

[faint plover]

i see thank u

[vast jungle]

wiki has exact numbers

[wintry marlin]

yeah, i know. but i will use a full oil node for it anyways, so it doesnt really matter to me

[round forum]

Yes on satisfactory tools

[wind spade]

they optimise for raw resources, not for power, machine count or steps 🙂

[ashen girder]

Then provide plastic as an input so it doesn't have to do that part at all for you.

[wintry marlin]

yeah, thats what i usually do while building the segments

[round forum]

It sometimes kind of fails at that, because why would it tell me to use the normal quarts or tempered quartz recipes instead of pure quartz unless I turn off literally every other option for quartz crystals to be made?

[wintry marlin]

anyone know a good spot with oil, quartz, iron, copper, caterium and water in close proximity? /s

more skybridges, here we goo

[ashen girder]

Now you see why I decided to go with OC Supercomputers and Turbo Electric Motors. I have a whole factory that doesn't use any oil whatsoever.

[wind spade]

I'd need the production line shared to answer

[ashen girder]

Right beside the god Nitrogen well. There's copper, iron, bauxite and coal near enough to truck it over.

[wintry marlin]

yeah, the problem is i cant even make teh cooling things yet iu think

wait no i actyually could

[ashen girder]

You unlocked them with Advanced Aluminum.

[wintry marlin]

lemme check on tools

wait wtf that seems way worse

that shit needs 6.75 oil per min wtf is cools cooking xd

[round forum]

The math/pathing on this is REALLY weird if you turn off quartz recipes that aren't even relevant here, like if you turn off quartz purification despite it not being used, it gives VERY wildly new and un-needed steps. https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=7WqRE7x6Hkbt6zbK3fQp

[ashen girder]

Remove oil entirely.

[wintry marlin]

ye

[wind spade]

ah, you're using maximise

that doesn't optimise, change to items/min

[wintry marlin]

cooling devices was missing on recepe list

[ashen girder]

Ah, that'll do it.

Yeah, that factory needs a LOT of alts to work right.

[wintry marlin]

wtf im having a stroke

how tf do i spell recepy?

recipe?

[ashen girder]

Recipe. 🤣

[round forum]

But doesn't items/min sometimes make the pathing even wilder/weirder and more unneccessary?

[ashen girder]

And yeah, I have it built over this pond here.

[wind spade]

but resource optimal

[ashen girder]

Trucking coal in from the nodes on the bluff.

[wintry marlin]

mhm ye... looks weird idk

[ashen girder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_satiation

[wintry marlin]

yeah, probably

ah wait

if i go OC supercomputers i need to make way more of them

[ashen girder]

Cooling Systems?

[wintry marlin]

with the standard recipe i was good with 1.875 bc thats 1 manufactuerer, but now 1 manufacturer is way more

[wintry marlin]

nah, actual spercomputers xd

[ashen girder]

I.. am confused. Yeah, OC makes 3/min. That's bad?

You could always underclock it to make 1.875/min. 🤣

[wintry marlin]

ye i am going for 1 100% machine for it

just looks nice to have the entire fucking shitload of stuff go into 1 tiny machine

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I've got 1 OC Supcom and 1 TEM manufacturer running at full tilt on top of my factory.

And I think 1 or 2 RCU manufacturers up there?

I guess I should've been up front: most people think this recipe chain sucks because it's more expensive than most of the defaults.

I picked it entirely because I could basically use no oil whatsoever, and that spot has everything else handy nearby.

It's using Electric Motor and the Silicon alts too.

[wintry marlin]

for me its just this entire thing here going into 1 cute little manufacturer, just seemms neat. (thats my hmf)

[ashen girder]

The roof of my factory's much the same. 😛

[wintry marlin]

i mean, is the no oil even worth if u use nitrogen?

[ashen girder]

I.. don't understand the question?

In retrospect, I should've used the Dissolved Silica alts because of the nitrogen availability. 😂

[wintry marlin]

u just replavce oil with notrogen, no? but ig its easier to pipe

[ashen girder]

👆

That's the biggest nitrogen well on the map.

10 or 11 pure heads.

[wintry marlin]

ah i see

missed that

[ashen girder]

So, I mean, yeah. I'm trading oil for nitrogen largely. And aluminum.

But my rocket fuel plant has its own nitrogen well.

And I'm not about to do any of the whole map bullshit people like planning.

[wintry marlin]

can someone help me fix this? it gets stuck alot, and i dont fully understand why. does anyone have a blueprint for bauxite -> scrap, bc everything i seem to build keeps getting stuck

bc the other one, which i have runs perfectly, even thi its basically the exact same setup, just with 2 solution-> scrap refineries

[vast jungle]

the problem is mostly when you mix feshwater and byproduct-water... and that a single "byproduct-water refinery feeding itself" sometimes is trouble

[wintry marlin]

i dont mix it

the bottom right gets waste waster, upper right gets fresh water, and is fred with overflow bauxite from the bottom one

[vast jungle]

the problem is the self-looping part I think... the wiki plans suggest using a "ring" of two groups of machines for the byproduct-water, so each part of the ring feeds into the other one

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Alumina_Solution#/media/File:AluminumRatio.png

[wintry marlin]

the bottom right is exactly what i do

`just that the 4 alumina-> scrap are 1 OC one, and the 3 waste water using ones are 1 OC one

[ashen girder]

Fun fact, that can also deadlock.

[wintry marlin]

ik xd

[ashen girder]

The freshwater can overpower the alumina so that the recycled ones back up.

[wintry marlin]

because it does

i will just do 2 buffers

[ashen girder]

The answer isn't one anyone likes. 😂 You need a VIP on the alumina side instead.

Buffer should at least make it take a very long time to deadlock.

Just come by and drain it every so often.

[wintry marlin]

technically it should never deadlock, bc the amount of solution is capped by the bauxite

at least in my case

[ashen girder]

That doesn't really matter. What matters is that if the scrap refineries hesitate for any reason, the alumina pipes will start to back up. Once they get too full, the recycled water refineries can't continue running, causing the scrap to back up because it can't get rid of water.

Because the freshwater alumina never stops for nothing.

[wintry marlin]

technically in my case it does

[ashen girder]

How's that?

[wintry marlin]

smart splitter, only giving it bauxite if the waste using refinery cant use all the bauxite that gets in

[ashen girder]

And if the waste refinery hesitates, that bauxite immediately goes over to the fresh one.

Welp, COD is here. I'll let him tell you why I'm wrong. 👋

[vapid gorge]

ta! keep me posted 🙂 and there's a lot of blurry lines between math and meta and design sometimes. Especially with this sort of thing 🙂

[wintry marlin]

yeah, but it should only hesitate if there is no waste water technically. just have to make sure my scrap gets used

so probably an overflow sink for the scrap

[ashen girder]

It can hesitate if the outputs are full.

[wintry marlin]

but the outputs wont fill bc solution gets used

[ashen girder]

🤷‍♂️ Like, just to be clear here: I've seen this happen. You've seen this happen. I don't really know what the conversation we're having is.

I'm not saying "this might happen in some theoretical instance". I'm offering you my best explanation for why it has happened to you.

Take it or leave it. 😂

[wintry marlin]

yeah, but the explaination isnt really satisfying bc i still dont understand it xd

i think the problem was that the bauxite in the first refineries filled up, so it didnt cap the solution production]

i added buffers now, they are fully empty, and its running beatifully

[vast jungle]

buffer and a pump could save a system in the rare case it still runs full...
a smart-splitter and a awesome-sink for the output can also be helpful

and yes, a real priority merger for liquids and items would also be nice 😉

[wintry marlin]

or just a sink for water

[prisma kraken]

the problem is that when the refineries stutter, the rate of water coming from the extractors doesn't and a balanced system becomes imbalanced

[wintry marlin]

yep, the only way to fix that is to basically have the waste water using refineries be able to fix an excess of water,

[prisma kraken]

as mentioned, the solution is to place an overflow sink on the scrap or ingot lines

or build a bunch of pipe voodoo

[ashen girder]

Neither of those are solutions. Just preventative measures.

Refineries are perfectly capable of skipping a beat all on their lonesome, and pipe voodoo is voodoo at best, and unreliable.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, hoverpack btw power grids will make them stutter too

i'm not sure how often that causes lock ups, need to do some experimentation with that all

[ashen girder]

Saving can too. 🤷‍♂️

[vast jungle]

one "good" solution would be to use exactly that many Sloops that you need no freshwater input 😄

[wind spade]

afaik people have reported that decimal imprecision can cause this to lose water

[ashen girder]

Or completely separate recycled into a secondary system.

[prisma kraken]

haven't observed that, but i wouldn't be surprised

[vast jungle]

yeah, limited precision in over/underclocking can prevent this

[wind spade]

no I meant imprecision of decimal math

since afaik fluid amount is decimal

[ashen girder]

It's a double.

Which is even worse for errors.

[vast jungle]

they should have worked with integer arithmetics ^^

[prisma kraken]

ehh, sometimes

the pipe simulation should really have used fixed precision math

that's kind of a game design flaw

[ashen girder]

Honestly, the game actually specifies float. It's mostly just hopeful that it means double because UE5 uses doubles for floats by default.

And, for the record, it actually stores it as m3 not Liters.

[prisma kraken]

unsure w/o looking at the code

[ashen girder]

I'm repeating what the header files tell us.

[prisma kraken]

i mean, they may be doing stuff like shoving a bunch of calculations into MMX/SSE half precision floats to calculate a much of things at once

[ashen girder]

Fair enough.

[prisma kraken]

without looking at the code, we couldn't say for sure