math-and-meta

[astral warren]

That’s my mindset for all my factories before mk6 belts

[quiet breach]

lol

[prisma kraken]

i wouldn't really try to set up anything massive until you can deal with 600/min on a belt

[feral breach]

Guess I could build it with T5 in mind and just upgrade once I get few pieces of aluminium

[astral warren]

Yeah that’s what I did

[quiet breach]

my massive is base building necessities to just bank on mainly

[prisma kraken]

the game really is sort of geared to make factories that take 600/min of stuff easy to build

[astral warren]

Yeah

Multiples of 2 or 3 in general it feels like

[feral breach]

Guess I'll leave the pure nodes on golden coast alone and mine the normal impure ones near the giant forest. For the small factory 😄

[quiet breach]

iron stuff, steel stuff, encased beams, mod frames, etc etc just at base in central storage. expanding little pop ups for little stuff

dont thgink ive done "massive" yet lol

1500 iron a min massive

[prisma kraken]

meh, i did that on mk4 belts

[quiet breach]

scary I have mk4

[prisma kraken]

it wasn't bad, i had something like 12 foundries making ingots & split them into 5 groups each making 300/min

the numbers worked out so that it was pretty easy to belt

[quiet breach]

love when that happens

feel like a lot of what ive been doing lately are jacked up numbers

[prisma kraken]

it was like 300 go to making plate, 4x 300 go to making pipe

and then it collapsed back down to reasonable numbers once iron pipe took 4->1

[quiet breach]

know where im kinda getting stuck.... i want to make say X and Y... but then have all these resources still.... so then im trying to figure out what else to add etc

iron pipe is huge

love it nad havent even gone too crazy yet

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a very efficient use of iron, but when you combine it with iron alloy, that is offset considerably, and then when using steeled frame, the reduced number of rips it takes also is a savings on iron

[quiet breach]

yeah

can increase output of ingots and decrease need with alts

[prisma kraken]

the factory i posted was for 90 mf/min which is a pretty big number

[quiet breach]

insane to me

i just am missing the ok this makes 30, this needs 30 hook straight up and done lol

[prisma kraken]

it isn't enough, but it is a start

[fringe pawn]

1.0 death border feels really harsh

[quiet breach]

are yoou planning on sending that to other places to use then?

[astral warren]

Is it different? Feels about the same as before

Then again it has been a while

[prisma kraken]

i haven't really noticed a difference

[fringe pawn]

Edge of the map is exactly where stuff is hidden in a lot of video games.

[prisma kraken]

i spent a day probing it, and it really seemed just as bang bang, you crossed a line as it did in u8

[fringe pawn]

I'm curious how many people are dying following the few land bridges out to nowhere looking for slomersloops or whatever.

I admit I'm merely speculating

[prisma kraken]

nothing is out there in the void

[fringe pawn]

SOmeone playing without spoilers doesn't know that.

[quiet breach]

loll

[prisma kraken]

i've explored quite a bit of the map's nooks and crannies so far

still some places i've not gone through thoroughly yet

[fringe pawn]

I'm stubbornly not even building radar towers yet. But I feel like I've been pretty thorough. I don't know where I'm at with somersloops because I'm using them, but I think I'm missing 11 Mercer spheres?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm systematically going through and collecting everything as i go

[fringe pawn]

I just sort of aimlessly wander with my scanner out and collect corpses too.

[prisma kraken]

just cleared out the swamp today, man that sucked

[fringe pawn]

I might build my aluminum factory in the swamp. I'm looking forward to flying over it by building a hoverpack grid and dropping nukes.

Even though nukes didn't end up being that good, it's still satisfying.

[prisma kraken]

there's a couple of places there where the big spiders are in groups like the small spiders usually are and floating over, you can't really tell their size, lol

[feral breach]

I can't deal with the swamp... And I don't even have arachnophobia:D

[prisma kraken]

the nukes are like mk2 cluster nobs... same thing but better at clearing plants

[feral breach]

Maybe I can put a concrete platform above it and close it forever... And build my bauxite on top 😄

[prisma kraken]

all i can say is that it sucked to do

i ended up finishing the job with something like 200 spider remains, lol

[fringe pawn]

Are there a few random high objects scattered throughout?

[prisma kraken]

there's few bulb trees and a few rocks sticking up

[fringe pawn]

You can blow up bulb trees now right? I did in crater lake coal.

[prisma kraken]

the ones in the swamp didn't seem to clear with ex rebar, i didn't try setting off nobelisks

[reef turtle]

Pulse nobelisks can take care of things you'd probably think aren't destructible.

[fringe pawn]

Ex rebar should do the same thing, that's too bad. Though object hitboxes can be pretty bad. It's made me think somethings couldn't be destroyed when they could.

[prisma kraken]

idk, i wasn't really focused on that

more running from 8 spiders and a few nuke hogs, lol

i kind of think in u8 & 1.0 they went a little 'too' with the upper level mob's density

it doesn't make it that much more challenging to deal with them, just takes a butt-ton more time

[reef turtle]

Hoverpack + homing ammo was my go-to.

[fringe pawn]

The craziest is the spot I think is in the Eastern dune forest around a crash site.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i've been doing it with ex rebar & tra

there's a few worse spots

[reef turtle]

Some of the plateaus above the dune desert get a little nuts.

The swamp is very unpleasant.

[prisma kraken]

the transition btw lake forest & titan/east dune is pretty dangerous, and this area is bonkers:

and then yeah, the swamp, you can expect 8 big spiders at once in the swamp

the only area i haven't really seen yet is the dune desert mesa which probably is horrible as well

i may need to automate making hra before heading up there

[clever bay]

isn't there something weird with trains and gas throughput?

like you can't use a buffer or something?

[pastel obsidian]

i dodnt hink it would be worth using a buffer for gas

[clever bay]

right so I think i just need another train

[vapid gorge]

gas doesn't do buffers well, package it

[clever bay]

kk

[prisma kraken]

what exactly is the issue with that?

[pastel obsidian]

It buffers really well in a Freight Platform

you dont need to bottle it

[vapid gorge]

flow is a mess

freight buffers? maybe, but you need fluid buffers to properly get train throughput

[pastel obsidian]

you just need to learn how fluids work

[vapid gorge]

that has to be a troll considering your suggestions over the last couple days

[prisma kraken]

i understand fluids better than most, i was just wondering what happens with a buffer on a train station for gases

[pastel obsidian]

train stations are the best fluid buffers in the game

they have directional pipes so it works really well

[vapid gorge]

yeah I thought you might have been someone who was well meaning but doing a poor job helping people but that doesn't seem likely anymore

[prisma kraken]

yeah, sorry for feeding the trolls 😛

[vapid gorge]

it happens

[pastel obsidian]

At least i help people with thier problems all you do is thell then they are doing it wrong

[clever bay]

isn't there a setting in the train station to like something like "leave when full"

i can't find it

[prisma kraken]

you know, it would be cool if fluid cars did the gas compression for you so that they could haul 2/4x the load

[vapid gorge]

that would be interesting yeah

[prisma kraken]

it's an option off of the timetable ui

[clever bay]

ah thanks

we'll see if that works

having throughput issues on my nukebase

[prisma kraken]

those settings for getting trains to pause don't work quite as you'd expect

[fringe pawn]

Wait. Biocoal and charcoal are available for me to select in a constructor. And yet I definitely do not have them unlocked.

Huh. According to the QA site, unlocking compacted coal unlocks biocoal and charcoal.

[pastel obsidian]

Time to report a bug it seems

[unborn ermine]

Oh I completely wrote those off

(I also have them as a research pair)

[sonic sparrow]

Is there a place where I can find some high level layouts of factory’s people have setup? I’m at last tier but running into supply issues at later stages an it’s getting more an more pasta trying to infuse extra. Looking to redo with a cleaner approach.

[prisma kraken]

there has to be some way to misuse this:

[prisma kraken]

i doubt much has been published on endgame factory layouts at this point

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production

If you mean floor plans, those hardly get made

[sonic sparrow]

Thanks folks

[oblique hollow]

is it the left one

[rotund summit]

is there a need to connect the pipes from the end of the pipeline to the start? my last few generators are not getting fuel

[drowsy olive]

guys I realized that items on very long full belt manifods are struggling to fill the machine at the end and backing up production since 1.0. do you also have the same problem?

[vapid gorge]

should loop it then

[ivory talon]

what recipe are you using for turbo fuel?

[prisma kraken]

you should be able to just add a pipe here

what i would do instead however is output to separate pipes for each bank of generators, which shouldn't be harder than deleting a pipe segment connecting the blender's output

keep pipe networks small

[pastel obsidian]

I skipped it for nitro rocket fuel

Otherwise I used the one with fuel compacted coal and some else

[zenith prairie]

Well cheaters dont count towards those 1.5%

[rotund summit]

i use turbo blend fuel!

[rotund summit]

its working now, ill try your suggestion next

[ivory talon]

is it 5 blenders for all of those gens or more?

[rotund summit]

thats 12 blenders, with 4 overclocked to produce a total of 600 turbo fuel

[ivory talon]

ok, i see im missing the belnded turbofuel

[rotund summit]

this is the setup im using if u want a reference, i sink all the polymer resins for now until i find a use for them

[verbal lake]

If you don't mind DM'ing me your save, I can fiddle around with it and see if I can find an answer for your specific case.

[copper plaza]

i uh somehow reloaded more than 15 into my rifle ?

[oblique hollow]

Free bullets

[copper plaza]

fr, i dont get how i did that because its hella useful

but it was while sliding/dodging/jumping or something along those lines

noticed afterwards

[river night]

get turbo ammo, it has a native mag size of 75

shoots faster too, but at the same damage of standard

[vapid gorge]

Iodized bullets when

[copper plaza]

i would but i havent automated fuel yet

so it was a pleasent surprise lol

[ashen girder]

Left one does not back up. That there is a load bearing junction.

[past reef]

for rocket fuel the limiting factor is sulfur so I should go the basic recipe if I have a bunch of space?

[oblique hollow]

Junction pair magic

[oblique hollow]

If you need THAT much, yes

[past reef]

wait hm they're kind of 1:1 I'll check location

[warm blade]

Hmm quite unsatisfactory - https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66ffc881ddb9d97e071eb429

[ashen girder]

https://new.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1dzxgrb/water_recycling_some_surprise_a_little_confusion/

It explains why VIPs both work and don't work quite neatly.

[pastel obsidian]

Just remember to merge from the top and split form through bottom

With pipes

[ashen girder]

I like how people offer me advice when I'm talking about things working or not working in experiments. 😅

When you're adding a pointless junction to make it work, does that qualify as merging or splitting?

Also, more useful advice would've been "don't try to feed 120 fresh and 120 recycled to a machine that needs 200."

[vivid escarp]

Sometimes if i Place a PB the Elevators dont connect correctly

can i somehow prevent that?

[ashen girder]

A PB?

[vivid escarp]

blue print

[ashen girder]

Oooh. Blueprints don't automatically connect to things outside of themselves.

If it's a lift entirely inside the blueprint start to finish, then you need to update the blueprint itself.

[vivid escarp]

no its inside the bp but sometimes it dont connects

if i place this crap 10x i have at least in 1 wrong connections

[ashen girder]

Weird. I've never had that issue.

[thorn bane]

i swear pipes are just voodoo magic

[ashen girder]

I know, right? Junctions having a priority system built into them, and junctions eating a lil bit of headlift both make a lot of things make sense IMO.

Like, if junctions truly do have a priority system, the way you connect your water extractors together suddenly matters downstream.

And that can explain why some people have issues and some people don't.

Especially considering a single extra junction can make or break a setup.

[thorn bane]

or smaller setups that work on 1 extractor

[ashen girder]

Yes, exactly.

Also why looping sometimes fixes it: it gives both a shorter priority path to half the manifold, and reduces the headlift penalties.

Yeah, I dunno. I'm gonna keep thinking about it as people report broken pipe setups and see if it continues making sense. Would be interested in a case that disproves it.

[thorn bane]

and im gonna keep recommending a seperated fresh and recycled setup because at this point its just throwing a dice whether your pipe setup works or not

[ashen girder]

100% yeah. Can't go wrong if you just don't mess with any priority system or head lift-sensitive stuff. 🤣

The head lift stuff, for reference, is from bottomfed things. They need a buttload of headlift to function correctly.

So... don't.

[thorn bane]

ah that explains why its not recommended

[ashen girder]

Yeah, and throwing down pumps between them can help fix it up if you want to insist on it.

Or in our test case, add over 300m of headlift from gravity. 🤣

[stiff walrus]

Question about fertile uranium. Is it possible to create a closed loop? Filling up 4 fluid buffer with water for nitric acid and sulfuric acid, cut the water supply and feed the water from the fertile uranium back into the buffer with a pump.

[brisk smelt]

yes i think

[ashen girder]

The math works. Godspeed with keeping it running though. Pipe systems are.. non-intuitive, especially when recycling.

You actually shouldn't even need a fluid buffer at all.

Honestly, I'd recommend against it until you've got it working how you want, because it just delays making it obvious that it's going to deadlock.

[stiff walrus]

It seems like you got a similar question before, if I read the previous messages XD

So it's probably better to use the water in cooling NPP and get a fresh supply

[ashen girder]

Similar-ish. Aluminum is different because you need both fresh and recycled water.

Mixing those is.. harrowing at the best of times.

With the uranium setup, you shouldn't need any fresh water.

Honestly, it should be easier to setup than Aluminum recycling.

[mint lichen]

I used satisfactorytools production calculator for 10 motors/min and selected all recipes. Why does the calculator want me to go for iron wire and iron pipe, while on the other side of the tree it wants me to use steel to make rods and use copper to make rotors. I know I can set my inputs, recipes etc. but I'm just curious how is this most efficient way for the calculator?

[oblique hollow]

it optimizes for resource efficiency, usually

i guess it favors the iron cost for steel pipes much more than coal or limestone

for screws, steel rod are the most resource efficient

and copper rotor is know to be very resource efficient too

none of this is very surprising

[warm blade]

Hi If there is somebody here who is exxpert and has many hours with satisfactory and has some time left to provide feedback arount coordinate systems and related ones I would appriciate that. I created QA feedback but I'm not sure if 'im accurate or if I'm missing/misunderstanding how game works.
Ty for your time and help in advance. https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/66eef2a6772a987f4a8c6013

[oblique hollow]

If you want to reduce your logistical efforts, you can simply disable copper rotor and default rotor and use steel rotor instead
it will cost you more but it means you can make rotors and stators from the same thing: pipes and wire

[mint lichen]

I'm also a bit baffled how is the basic screw recipe favored even though it uses so much constructors

I guess it's best resourcewise

[wind spade]

it's great with steel rod, in terms of resource efficiency

[fringe pawn]

It does not factor power efficiency or machine count

[thorn bane]

god iron wire iron pipe stators are disgusting

[mint lichen]

why so?

[thorn bane]

its just weird that something like stators can be made entirely out of iron

[mint lichen]

I bet it isn't resource efficient compared to their original recipes, but it solves logistics

[vast jungle]

Especially when you already use pure iron and solid steel

[vapid gorge]

Iron is worthless, so it’s infinitely efficient

[oblique hollow]

because amount of constructors doesnt matter to the calc

screws are always a bulk product

but they dont take a lot of resources

[wind spade]

building a machine is one-time cost
using resources is permanent cost

[oblique hollow]

ingots to screws can only be made more efficient by making ingots more efficient
screws from rods have 2 improvements
the ingots and the rods

[wind spade]

(and yes, more machines = more power needed = more resources used for power, but that's hard to quantify)

[mint lichen]

especially considering I would have to use power to produce for example a steal beam for the steel screw recipe

so it evens out I think

[oblique hollow]

if you have pure ironl it favors iron pipe more

if you dont have it, it prevers solid steel and normal pipes

[mint lichen]

wow, you're right. I turned off the pure iron ingot recipe and it planned out default stator recipe

[oblique hollow]

something about pure just reduces the cost of iron so much that it no longer considers iron pipe expensive

[mint lichen]

I mean defult pipe for stator

[vapid gorge]

yeah this is why I force it to choose specific recipe chains

[oblique hollow]

this is why you dont activate all recipes

but only recipes you actually wanna use

[mint lichen]

Yeah whenever I go "all" with any high tier item it plans out with sam, converter, recycled rubber/plastic chain etc.

[oblique hollow]

you can throw in some of the more experimental recipes to see if the calc comes up with something interesting

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats why disabling the ore conversion is kinda needed

the current way to do this is indeed a bit annoying

[ashen girder]

I just disable SAM unless I specifically want to do something with it.

[wanton belfry]

blueprints with traintracks seriously don't properly link the tracks?

[oblique hollow]

no

[wanton belfry]

oof

[oblique hollow]

use these as "control points"

for orientation and such

otherwise the track pieces inbetween should be built by hand

junctions may be reasonable to blueprint

[wanton belfry]

I'll just update my blueprints to not have the tracks. basically redoing my entire track line

[vast jungle]

I have a factory area planned that had more coal than iron... So I use steel for pipes

[ashen girder]

Heresy!

[oblique hollow]

in that case, adding those values into the calc may be worth it

as if you have more coal than iron it will probably prefer the coal

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's the real trick. Update the inputs to match the nodes you want to use at max extraction.

[velvet fractal]

I'm building up a new Alu production as I just unlocked Sloppy Alumina

now I'm struggling between using Pure Aluminum Ingot or bring in Silicia externally - I know PAI is recommended since it's smaller footprint in building and power but I'll lose 180 ingots per minute.

Will I miss the 180 alu ingots later?

[oblique hollow]

how much do you make in total anyway
120/min?

in any case, you will need more aluminum in the future
so one thing you can do is to get drones later to bring in the quartz for the silica

[velvet fractal]

720 (default) vs. 540 (with Pure Alu Ingot)

[thorn bane]

should be fine

[velvet fractal]

Quartz would be in a reasonable distance so it wouldn't be that big of a deal to bring it in

just the question if can use the quartz better somewhere else and give a *** on the 180 ingots I "lose"

[oblique hollow]

if you really do miss those 180 in the future, you can consider it when its time for that

[thorn bane]

you might need more once you start making thermal propulsion rockets but until then its fine
but then just get a second node

[oblique hollow]

quartz can be used for crystal oscillators

which you will most likely need

[ashen girder]

Or be like me and just replace oil with quartz altogether. 👀

[velvet fractal]

that's exactly the next step 😄

[vast jungle]

exactly... I am at the moment finishing a new MK2 BP... 3 Refineries (Pure Iron), 4 Foundries (Solid Steel)... 87 Iron and 160 Coal in, 240 Steel out 😄

[thorn bane]

honestly quart purification makes def. alu kinda viable
it saves in buildings

[ashen girder]

Quartz purification, steamed sheets, fused wire, fused quickwire, copper alloy..

I like my OC SupCom+TEM factory.

[thorn bane]

if the choice is between getting a quartz node and a second bauxite node then just getting 2 nodes is gonna give more alu

[velvet fractal]

nah - the choice is using the quartz to get those 180 more alu ingots vs. using the quartz for something else

don't know how crazy the need for quartz is later in game

on the other hand there are lots of recipes which reduce the use for oscillators, right?

[thorn bane]

quartz use heavily depends on the alts you like
stuff like silicon circuit boards, silicon high speed connectors, crystal computer, crystal motor are all very optional and kinda depend on preference
i personally use the first 2 but not the latter 2 and use caterium for those instead

its just a question of would you rather use quartz or caterium
if you like the quartz recipes then yes having an additional node for it is nice

[vast jungle]

I plan to use the two underground Quarz nodes of the Rocky Desert for my Computer factory... its funny to have more Quartz than Caterium around ^^

[ashen girder]

Don't sleep on Silicon CBs and Silicon HSCs if you've got quartz laying around.

[velvet fractal]

ok, didn't expect it to be that much of a personal preference

Thought there's some absolute meta like "WTF, don't use that quartz for that crappy aluminum" 😂

thanks guys!

I'll use the quartz for the alu for now and see how it goes

[ashen girder]

The actual meta for alt recipes is "use what makes sense for your factory".

If you don't have coal, you probably don't want steel heavy alts. If you don't have a lot of caterium, you probably don't want caterium heavy alts.

[vast jungle]

except for plastic/rubber... either you use DF/Recycling or you are missing out on a lot of output 😉

[velvet fractal]

yeah - I'm all on the defaults for the oil stuff - redo from scratch is already on the list 😄

[ashen girder]

Yeah, there's a few like that, like Solid Steel and Cast Screws where they're almost always upgrades from the default version.

[velvet fractal]

[vast jungle]

I think I had a "two refinery" temporary setup (one rubber, one plastic) and then directly went to a DPF-loop this time

[urban kite]

8, 1200/min lines of iron ingot courtesy of basic iron ingots 🙂 no idea what im actually gonna do with them but yeah

[deep citrus]

@fierce ruin

I'm guessing this is without using sloops

[fierce ruin]

What’s that called

[deep citrus]

Yes, I enabled all alt recipes

[deep citrus]

Satisfactory tools

[vast jungle]

this is a bit insane 😄

[urban kite]

disgusting ratios

[vast jungle]

I just underclock one of the Refineries

[thorn bane]

dont really need pure iron imo

[urban kite]

although 1 and a half of those lines will be going into solid steel i think

of my lines i mean

[vast jungle]

still iron-ore:steel-ingot nearly 1:3 is insane

[urban kite]

solid steel op op

also basic iron > pure iron 🙂 🙂

[ashen girder]

Leached iron though.

[urban kite]

leached is the same efficiency i nterms of iron ore i think

[vast jungle]

Basic Iron just makes you run out of Limestone FAST 😉

[prisma kraken]

if you're going to use pure iron, use it right:

[urban kite]

who needs limestone tbh

[oblique hollow]

basic iron is as free as pure

only better than pure

[vast jungle]

my EIBs and HEFs...

[ashen girder]

I'd argue it's more free, personally. 👀

Foundries > Refineries.

[vast jungle]

thats why I made it a BP... now its "free" in terms of effort to build ^^

[ashen girder]

Power cost ^^

[urban kite]

i got a whole 1200/min line of conc left over after giving all the limestone i need 🙂

[oblique hollow]

basic and leached are at the top when it comes to iron ore to ingot

[thorn bane]

also singularity cells
fucking 200 concrete/min

[vast jungle]

2.25 HMFs need (when using EIBs and HEFs) 54 Concrete/min alone

[ashen girder]

Pure Iron is 27.7MJ/ingot for less ore efficiency. Basic Iron is 19.2MJ/ingot.

[urban kite]

i mean im only using like every limestone node in the rocky desert it is not that bad /s

[vast jungle]

so if you want to scale this up, your local concrete is gone quickly ^^

[ashen girder]

Leached is 18MJ/ingot. 😂

[urban kite]

im already using all the sulfur for power 😭

[ashen girder]

Default Iron is 8MJ/ingot. 🤣

[urban kite]

(70% of the sulfur actually)

[thorn bane]

i wish the leached recipes were better
the fact that you need almost 2x the refineries for the acid makes it kinda meh

[ashen girder]

Yeah, these numbers aren't including the energy from the ingredients.

[oblique hollow]

but you dont

[ashen girder]

If you actually did that leached would probably double.

[oblique hollow]

you need less refineries than pure anyway

[ashen girder]

..definitely not double, actually. 1 unit of sulfuric acid is only 36MJ, so it only increases it by 3.6MJ/ingot.

Still below pure by a good amount.

[vast jungle]

it all depends on what you have easily available..

[prisma kraken]

the point of the leached recipes is to make instant scrap suck even more 🙂

[thorn bane]

i guess its fine for iron since its 10/min but coppers 25/min just kinda sucks

[oblique hollow]

no matter which leached recipe you chose, the sulfuric acid refineries plus the leached refineries are always less than the pure refineries

[thorn bane]

ah yes tools strikes again

[vapid gorge]

I suspect the leached recipes exist so people could use the waste in another process like some do with waste water into wet concrete

[ashen girder]

Leached Copper means you're probably using it for pasta purposes.

[urban kite]

just use copper alloy 😉

[ashen girder]

Can't get as much pasta out of one copper node that way.

[urban kite]

just make sauce isntead

[prisma kraken]

on a slightly different note, all the new recipes actually make the poly resin alt actually not bad

[thorn bane]

its very close though
and iron is easier to find than sulfur

[prisma kraken]

good way of making coke along side plastic/rubber

[oblique hollow]

i know leached copper is technically less efficient than pure...
buts its by literally half an ingot
22.5 vs 22

[ashen girder]

2.4x vs 2.0x..

[thorn bane]

20% 🤷

[ashen girder]

20% isn't "very close". 😛

[prisma kraken]

it is for plank lengths

[thorn bane]

its enough to where id rather build 1 foundry than 1.5 refineries

[urban kite]

refinereis are sooooo big

[prisma kraken]

if anyone has ever built pure copper or pure caterium for an entire pure node, it just sucks to do, lol

[oblique hollow]

Use tempered

tempered is worse than leached for caterium but equal to pure

and its faster

[thorn bane]

that sounds like alloy but worse

[oblique hollow]

still needs refineries for that coke but WAY less than pure

[oblique hollow]

with caterium you dont get much choice lol

[thorn bane]

oh for caterium

oh damn i didnt realize its only 15/min

[oblique hollow]

for copper, tempered is better than alloy

[prisma kraken]

i'd be surprised if there isn't a synergy btw tempered cat, poly resin, residual plastic and plastic ai limiter + cat cb

[oblique hollow]

but a bit worse than pure and leached

2
2.4444
2.5
2.4

[thorn bane]

if only those nubmers where on the page

[oblique hollow]

We are still redoing alt analysis

Old analysis wouldnt have those values on there either

[thorn bane]

ye cant wait for it in satisfactory 2

[oblique hollow]

It'd be faster if more people were willing to help

[ashen girder]

..the thread I was linked last time I talked about this has been dead long enough that it didn't stay visible in my sidebar. 😅

What do y'all need help with?

[oblique hollow]

As far as i am now aware
Rebuilding tables

[thorn bane]

go get the wiki contributer role

[oblique hollow]

We will analyse recipes only on one level

so no more tracing parts all the way back to ores

Computer recipes would stop at circuit boards and other stuff

[wind spade]

working on that now 🤔

[oblique hollow]

if you want a full analysis, you would have to piece together the individual pages

[oblique hollow]

And im not sure if what im doing is worthwhile, but i guess i'll just keep going

[wind spade]

I'm working on it as part of Tools though, but I could generate it in a different format if you want me to

[oblique hollow]

The tables?

[wind spade]

and maybe we should switch to analysis thread?

the tables for start, yeah

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt hurt to announce this stuff once in a while / talk publically

so people get an idea of wtf the wiki wizards are brewing

[wind spade]

I meant regarding discussion about stuff like how to generate what and what do you want and etc.

[oblique hollow]

I guess we can jump into the analysis thread for that
If anyone wants to join in:
https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1034942142092689408

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's the thread I joined that won't stay visible. Is visible now! 🤣

[wanton belfry]

my jetpack keeps using my bio fuel when I want it to use fuel. can you control which one it should use or does it always default to the lowest type in your inventory?

[ashen girder]

It resets if you put it in your depot.

[wanton belfry]

so it's by last in inventory?

[ashen girder]

Oh, and you can select which one it uses by clicking the gear. After that fuel runs out though it reverts to solid biofuel I think.

It might be first in inventory?

[wanton belfry]

excellent.. never noticed that gear wheel on the jet pack. thanks

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I assumed it was getting reset because it does that to me all the time, and that it wasn't obvious that you could set it to begin with. 😂

[urban kite]

which concrete recipoe has the best ratio of limestone -> concrete

[astral swallow]

Hum guys

[ashen girder]

Rubber > Fine > Wet > Default

[astral swallow]

i have a question, are these 2 layouts similar? (the squares are splitters)
Since i cant use the first one i'm asking this

[bleak veldt]

If I want to get the absolute most power out of the 2100 uranium on the map, I convert it all into the 50ish uranium fuel rods then convert all that paste to plutonium fuel rods then convert all of that waste into fisconium fuel rods right?

[late hearth]

Hi im planing a turbofuel powerplant, is it better to do it with heavy oil or fuel?

[bleak veldt]

yes

[astral swallow]

So it will work in the exact same way?

[wind spade]

basically no matter how you build your belts, if you don't go over max belt speed, it will work

[bleak veldt]

Correct

[astral swallow]

ok

thx 🙂

[ashen girder]

I haven't seen a consistent definitive answer to this. I have seen: use SAM to convert more to uranium, build 3-4 APAs fed with APMs, and sloop the uranium fuel rods with the rest.

[gray wing]

Hi all, I've made a smart plating factory producing 4 smart plates/min. I made a rotor factory first producing 8 rotors/min, and a reinforced iron plate factory producong 4/min. I then connected both to an assembler to make the smart plates. This probably isn't that efficient but its the first time I've ever made a factory for smart plates. Does anyone have any tips or things for me to improve?

[ashen girder]

There's not enough stuff though, to convert all of the PFRs into FFRs, I believe.

[bleak veldt]

I'm sticking to just uranium on the map at this planning phase I think

[bleak veldt]

oohh

[ashen girder]

Someone pointed out that the SAM you need to even do the FFR dance, you can instead convert Bauxite to Uranium and make UFRs for more power.

[bleak veldt]

yeah but then I end up with waste. I dont want any waste

[ashen girder]

Convert the waste to PFRs and sink them.

[bleak veldt]

and yeah like I know I can store it for eternity but I really want to not have waste

[bleak veldt]

but then you arent getting that sweet sweet PFR power. But if its not possible I guess its not possible

[ashen girder]

If you want that sweet PFR power, you gotta deal with the waste.

[deep citrus]

which means if you don't want to store plutonium waste forever, you gotta make Fisconium Fuel Rods out of them

[bleak veldt]

But there literally is not enough stuff for FFRs?

to max it?

[ashen girder]

You're starting to see the problem, yes. 😄

[deep citrus]

?

[ashen girder]

You can also feed UFRs/PFRs to drones/vehicles.

[bleak veldt]

The question is: If I maximize using the 2100 uranium on the map to get UFR->UW->PFR-PW->FFR

is there actually enough resources for that

[regal nymph]

ok chat i wnna test something
the math probably isnt correct but i wanna check if the logic is
if i have aluminum that needs 1k water/min and outputs 500
if i were to provide it with 500 from pumps an looped around with the out put fluid having a higher priority
would that work?

[bleak veldt]

No.

[regal nymph]

fuck

is there no way to escape the package+sync meta?

[bleak veldt]

So for Aluminum: You need to convert the water to wet concrete OR feed only SOME of the refineries with ONLY water from OTHER aluminum refiners

you CANNOT cross streams

[deep citrus]

btw you do know that with the discord time showing thing, it is dependent on how the things are set for the person in what it shows?

just saying

[bleak veldt]

it will not work, trust me, I built a factory that processed 100% of the bauxite on the map into aluminum lol

[regal nymph]

yes thats the point
my midnight is your 23

[regal nymph]

yeahh ill take your word on it then

[deep citrus]

then why the "if you can decipher how non 24 time works." part?

[bleak veldt]

if you want to slide into the DMs I can walk you through what I did

[regal nymph]

i guess ill do the 9/1 feeding strat and tehn feed into wet concrete

[regal nymph]

because the way discord does timestampthingies weird

[regal nymph]

im very tempted but i do wanna figure at least a majority of this out by myself

[amber jacinth]

Sloop the SAM

[regal nymph]

its the fun in this game imho

[bleak veldt]

love me some slooping

[regal nymph]

nah just dump all your sloops into doubling your power

[ashen girder]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/1.0/production?share=PxH14P25vAg1VU8GTTJJ

[obtuse sonnet]

Not "exactly" the same way. The first spliter splits the income in 3 and then each one following it splits in 2. So numbers are not exactly the same in the start.
But both are manifolds, so the machines will catch up eventually. That's the same.

[astral swallow]

oh ok

[deep citrus]

but like it's showing in 24h for me and not 12h like that part would suggest

[regal nymph]

you can also loop back

[ashen girder]

50.4 UFRs, 22.4 PFRs, 95.625 FFRs consumes 85% of the plutonium waste, 100% of the crude, 100% of the bauxite, 100% of the SAM, 100% of the sulfur, and 100% of the uranium. 😂

[astral swallow]

so i will just have to "fill them up all" then i can build the output

[regal nymph]

which is good butr it never hurts to be sfe

[bleak veldt]

oh man that is glorious

[amber jacinth]

I’m planning to do a 60/15/75 nuclear plant on my save

[deep citrus]

:(

[amber jacinth]

lil bit of uranium conversion, and a decent amount of RSAM slooping

[ashen girder]

Notably, this is without any conversion recipes.

All of that SAM is going to Trigons for the FFRs.

[deep citrus]

okay but that needs even more sam

[ashen girder]

Yeah, you can sloop the SAM. 😉

[amber jacinth]

Double RSAM from 2550 to 5100

[urban kite]

didnt someone here alraeady math out that that wasnt enough

[amber jacinth]

Enough for what?

[ashen girder]

Can sloop the ingots, too.

[amber jacinth]

Hmm... actually... yeah...

[ashen girder]

At this point, to be clear, it's substantially more efficient to sloop the UFRs, use the SAM to convert more bauxite, and build out like 4 fueled APAs. 🤣

Then convert the waste to PFRs and sink that.

[amber jacinth]

Absolutely 😛

Yeah, slooping the ficsite actually brings your RSAM into the realm of no slooping needed, if you use 14 sloops (over the 34 for RSAM)
You would still want to sloop some RSAM for other endgame items though...

[ashen girder]

Fun fact, you actually don't need any SAM for BWDs. 😄

Biochemical Sculptors and AI Expansion servers, though, do require it.

[bleak veldt]

wait so consensus is if you dont want to store waste indefinitely (I am very fond of the void singers fam) just sloop to get a fuck ton of UFR and then sink PFR to get rid of the waste

[ashen girder]

Or rocket fuel, yup.

Also, APAs. 4 fueled APAs boost all other energy production by 120% if you've got a unified grid.

[bleak veldt]

without slooping if you use 2100U you end up with 252 UFR nuclear plants and 224 PFR nuclear plants correct? so 476 plants = 1.19 TW of power?

[ashen girder]

Looks like the number I've heard elsewhere, yeah.

[bleak veldt]

I was just making sure I mathsed correct

[ashen girder]

I also think Rocket Fuel is around that if not higher. 😂

[bleak veldt]

what, skipping nuclear and just using RF?

[ashen girder]

And, yeah, 4 fueled APAs on that pop it from 1.19TW to 3.81TW.

[ashen girder]

Yes, using just RF I'm pretty sure you can produce more than 1.19TW.

RF is nutty.

[bleak veldt]

but what if you use BOTH

[ashen girder]

You have a lot of time on your hands. 😂

I don't know if anyone's really sat down and done a max-max power build.

For the vast majority of usecases, "a good sized RF plant" or "a good sized nuclear plant" are plenty, especially with APAs.

[trail lion]

right now i have a standard 120 coal : 3 water extractor : 8 coal generator power setup using mk 1 pipes and mk2 belts. If i upgrade all the belts to mk3 and put power shards in the miner, the extractors, and the generators and clock everything to 200% will everything continue to just work fine? or is there an issue with the flow rate of the pipes?

[bleak veldt]

I absolutely don't. But I'm an engineer and love this game so I will do it

I WILL FIGURE IT OUT

[ashen girder]

360*2 > 300*2, yeah?

Even if you upgrade to Mk2 pipes, 360*2 > 600*2.

[ashen girder]

Godspeed friend!

[bleak veldt]

also I'm dumb af, I knew 2:1 PFR:FFR. And I knew 2:1 UFR:PFR which means its just a 4:2:1 ratio

I feel dumb it took me this long to realize this

[trail lion]

each extractor is its own dedicated pipe. one pipe goes to the first generator, one to the last, and one in the middle and the manifold from there

[ashen girder]

Well, 360*2 < 300*3, so that might work. 😁

Just make sure every generator can actually get the amount of water it needs from the pipes its connected to, without any intermediate pipes going over its capacity.

If they can get that much water, you should be fine to just double the whole kit and caboodle.

[trail lion]

i think i do that. but fluid dynamics in this game are hard

[ashen girder]

If you have a screenshot or layout of your piping, we can give you a more certain answer.

[plush sphinx]

hey all idk if i need to put this here or in the #design-and-architecture chat but i need help fitting in 16 smelters, anyone help out a bit?

[ashen girder]

I believe that should be fine to just double everything, yeah.

It can probably hit 270 in spots, but I don't see anywhere it'd want to go over 300.

[trail lion]

i would say this isnt the WRONG place. how big is the space you need to fit them into. we can at least check if its mathematically possible.

[ashen girder]

Fair warning: most of our answers are "build a platform in the sky and ignore everything else".

[plush sphinx]

well its a 3 by however long and i need to fit 16 smelters

[ashen girder]

If you want to fit them prettily, you might want that other place.

[trail lion]

word. just want the game running in the background and i just needed a quick and dirty solution. dont have time to build a full power plant. weekend plans here i come

[ashen girder]

I feel that.

[thick shell]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1fw2roo/low_hanging_sloopertunities/

did a writeup and some analysis on the use of sloops for things like pure aluminum ingots and casings instead of purely slooping end products

[amber jacinth]

Slooptimization

[mortal lodge]

this comes from the gens on top and the tubes go to alittle floor under to make all the conections while the conveyors stay on top, is this the best way to do it?

[unborn ermine]

I would say to use fake floor holes whenever you can to avoid weird piping mechanics, aka clip the pipes through and have the floor holes for look.

And a fun fact too, the base pipe support can be angled and nestled into the foundation to also avoid floorholes.

(I hear so much about them but never end up using them out of fear )

[hasty nacelle]

Fluids always prefer to flow down in Satisfactory, only going up if it has no other choice, you ideally want consumers to be at a lower level than the pipes supplying them to prevent flow rate issues.

Or at least, add a pump to ensure the fluid travels up.

[mortal lodge]

i cant put gens under water now can I?

the pumps is for later, i need to figure out how to connect the coal first

[hasty nacelle]

You can use pumps on the pipes supplying water from the gens to push them up, then have them flow back down into the generators. For the conveyors, having them under the generators like that is nice, it makes it a lot easier to route stuff around.

[mortal lodge]

i first tried like this but then decided to use 2 mini floors inside one floor to place the piping and conveyors

[brisk smelt]

tl;dr put sloops at the latest constructor/assembler in a supply chain? instead of in manufacturers

[quiet breach]

you made me just think of something

[brisk smelt]

oh no please do not ever feed refineries from the floor in the future

always top-feed

[quiet breach]

bring in the pipes higher than the floor they are used on, and just have them then come down to fill

would kind of be a cool look too from ceiling or side walls

[mortal lodge]

not good for design later 😦

the logistics floor would be closed

because this thing is kinda big

[ashen girder]

If you don't mind the power cost, you can use pumps to stabilize bottom fed machines.

[mortal lodge]

i think i have more than enough extra power for pumps

[quiet breach]

what do you mean design later? like expanding?

[mortal lodge]

no, decorating the exterior

and I have a really big problem when things arent symmetric

[quiet breach]

ohhh you still can

can bring pipes in low right? bring all the way up the inside wall

[mortal lodge]

I also just have the minimum decorating blocks

[quiet breach]

using pumps

and then break it off / disperse the pipes to the generators where need be but at a lower point than the top where the liquid gets to.... I wonder how that would look / work

outside wont look any different

[mortal lodge]

the pumps are set like this with tubes going up from the middle and sides

[quiet breach]

looks nice man

but .... someone may need to correct me....

[ashen girder]

Just for the record, those are extractors not pumps. 😅

[mortal lodge]

that

[quiet breach]

how are you going to carry that much water if they all connected?

tthats a lot of extractors 120 each pipes hold 300?

[mortal lodge]

im going to upgrade to mk2 pipes later

[ashen girder]

Just making sure to clarify because I was talking about actual pumps. The things you snap onto the pipe to move liquid up.

[mortal lodge]

i dont have the materials for it yet

[quiet breach]

600

5 at 120 = 600

[mortal lodge]

600 with 8 out tubes

[quiet breach]

looks like you have way more connected?

[unborn ermine]

Kinda similar to what I have for my coal gen basics, just high enough to use one pump for a batch and be over the extractors.

[mortal lodge]

in total i have 4 800 of flow out

[hasty nacelle]

Pipes almost never transfer the full throughput rate btw. If anything limits flow, the flow rate will drop down.

[mortal lodge]

nothing a little pumps wont fix

[quiet breach]

but wouldnt that 800 be a waste though? as pipe line can only hold at max 600?

[unborn ermine]

Sloshing pipes do be funny like that, two small buffers can have a mk2 pipe tansfer 700+ /min with a tiny pipe

[mortal lodge]

for now its enough

i will need water for a later project near this place

so I calculated 25% extra water for that

[unborn ermine]

The transfer rate that is, it just goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[quiet breach]

maybe im not explaining that right

and probably not fully understanding how the pipes actually work... it looks like you have all the lines connected

on one circuit

[ashen girder]

I mostly just leave people to their devices when pipes come up. There's a lot of superstition around them. 😅

[mortal lodge]

in total its 180 extractors for 360 gens

[mortal lodge]

yes

[ashen girder]

Assuming those connections are what they appear to be, you are absolutely correct that the vast, vast, vast majority of those extractors will be idle.

[mortal lodge]

water will flow through the pipes with less flow im assuming

[quiet breach]

ok thats what I thought

[mortal lodge]

since there are output pipes in the middle and sides

it should flow good

[ashen girder]

No single stretch can hold more than 300/min.

[quiet breach]

riught

thats what im trying to say thank you lol

[mortal lodge]

it will be upgraded to mk2 soon

[quiet breach]

youll still have overkill

[ashen girder]

That just raises it to 600/min.

[mortal lodge]

1200

[quiet breach]

you need to separate the lines

[mortal lodge]

i have 2 at least

[quiet breach]

not have them all connected

[ashen girder]

With two pipes, that's 1200/min. Anything over that will fill the extractors until they stop running.

[mortal lodge]

the water output will be the same if I discconect one side from the other

[quiet breach]

but they are connected in the middle... making it one line, no?

[ashen girder]

Not really, no.

[quiet breach]

remove the middle connection and you have 2 lines of 600?

[thick shell]

More single sloops in key supply chains (aluminum, trigons) can be more effective for that key item than slooping manufacturers

[quiet breach]

or it functions the same as 2 lines?

[mortal lodge]

that dosent make sense

if i have 2 separeted pipes running next to each other

both full, both reaching an end

if i connect them in the middle

i will still have the same output

[quiet breach]

oh true

[mortal lodge]

on my calculation about 25 to 33% of the gens will be iddle, and thats by design

[quiet breach]

makes sense, was trippin on it becoming one "line"

[cerulean stratus]

I find it funny that both of these are going at 300

[mortal lodge]

i will upgrade later 😦

[quiet breach]

i hate fluids

[mortal lodge]

i dont even have trains yet, im bringing coal by truck with autopilot

[ashen girder]

It only takes 5 water extractors to saturate a single Mk2 pipe.

[mortal lodge]

heres a good book for you

[ashen girder]

10 extractors will saturate 2 of them.

More than 10 extracts on two Mk2 pipes is just a waste.

Unless you're underclocking them.

[mortal lodge]

look man, i have 15 extractors in line, all connect to a pipe, with 4 outputs, 2 in middle 2 in sides. devide the section in half, on the first half, half the pumps will be pushing water to the side and the other half to the middle since the line filled up to the side, the same happens on the other half, and that just means that 3,5 pumps will have a single connection for them

thats why i connected them all, to push water in other direction to help fill the system

[ashen girder]

Okay, so the pipes connect at both ends is what you're saying?

Like, to consumers?

[mortal lodge]

yes

let me grab a screenshot

[ashen girder]

And you're planning on connecting more in between? So, like, build over them?

[ashen girder]

Ah, okay. That makes way more sense.

[mortal lodge]

thats what I said earlier XD

[quiet breach]

thats my bad - was trying to understand as I thought it wouldnt work as fluids for me - is a headache

[mortal lodge]

i really hope i dont get this wrong XD

[quiet breach]

looks amazing though

[mortal lodge]

too much work tbh

[ashen girder]

You'll want to throw some extra pumps just below them.

[mortal lodge]

just a few days ago i had this

[quiet breach]

dang

[mortal lodge]

dont go near the corners 😉

[rotund summit]

quick question about decentralized factories, if i have a factory making motors only, would you siphon some of the rotors/stators into depots or would rotors and stators be made and stored elsewhere?

[cerulean stratus]

Hey @oblique hollow , I was trying out a priority splitter here with the vip, but it's not working that well
I'm inputting 600, the flow is going right to left, The top one is getting around 150 flow and the blue one is getting 450, and there's space for more

[mortal lodge]

make a fuck ton of them, until it fills 50 storage containers in the same facility, and them start routing them to where you want, just to make sure you wont run out

better to make it big first time than to have to go back and upgrade later

[cerulean stratus]

I disagree, this is how you get burnout

[mortal lodge]

and try to make a mall, with all items there

[ashen girder]

Almost like different people have different needs. 👀

[magic island]

For personal construction, I pretty much always make a combination motor/rotor factory. So I make some amount of extra rotors beyond what the motors need, and store both.

Stators aren't an item you really need for personal use aside from maybe a couple crash site unlocks?

[cerulean stratus]

there's no need for it anymore with the depot

[mortal lodge]

nah, i like to work on big projects while my main factory is on life support with 10 biomass gens

running of the 50k leaves i deleted from the world

[cerulean stratus]

both work. In one world I have a small factory making motors just for depot, while I also have a big expandable HMF factory making HMF for everything

While also having another factory close by making motors for something else

[mortal lodge]

my next project after this is a massive tower reaching height limit just making screws

[cerulean stratus]

wait a second... I think I saw your name when I tried research on a biomass challenge

[mortal lodge]

where?

[cerulean stratus]

reddit

it was about some years ago though

[mortal lodge]

highly impossible

i dont even have this username in reddit

and i only started playing after update 7

but only now im fully commited, after 1.0 release

[cerulean stratus]

oh, no, it was serisak

sorry

[cerulean stratus]

I'm doing a biomass challenge, and I've just done a 15 load balanced biomass burner blueprint, an everything to solid biomass sorter bp, and an everything to compacted coal sorter bp

[unborn ermine]

This is why I like having hard save points when I start stuff
if something is just a REALLY bad idea its a simple rollback.

[ashen girder]

Spaghetto, you're big into pipes right?

[cerulean stratus]

I guess I am now

It seems today all my tests are giving me jank so I don't know what to believe anymore

[bronze coral]

Yep you gotta test it multiple times since it can overflow/underflow randomly

sometimes a setup which shouldn't even have enough headlift will just work somehow

[cerulean stratus]

Tell me about it. This pipe is having 115 flow in it, while it shouldn't be having anything

[ashen girder]

@cerulean stratus What's your thoughts on this one?

[cerulean stratus]

you just put a junction and it started working?

[ashen girder]

Bingo-bango. Took the junction off, and it backed up again.

Been thinking about this post a lot lately: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/1dzxgrb/water_recycling_some_surprise_a_little_confusion/

[cerulean stratus]

We also have to keep in mind that fluids were probably changed in 1.0

So nothing that you knew works now

[ashen girder]

I took those screenshots last night. 😛

So if they were changed, however they were changed didn't make that idea stop working.

[ashen girder]

So.. considering this was built and done entirely in 1.0, any thoughts on it?

[cerulean stratus]

fluids make me want to lay down and cry

[ashen girder]

Did you know that junctions eat head lift, too? As a snack?

[cerulean stratus]

what else do junctions do

[ashen girder]

I've heard they can juggle and do card tricks, but I've yet been able to confirm that.

But really, the priority thing + the head lift thing explains a LOT of the weird issues people have with them.

[cerulean stratus]

wouldn't surprise me anymore

[ashen girder]

The head lift thing is very, very much why bottomfeeding is treacherous.

[cerulean stratus]

Now junctions with buffers, that's double jank

[ashen girder]

And as evidenced by my little test there, where adding a single junction changes the priorities so that the recycled fluid can get by, shows that a lot of those issues could easily be because of extractor setups.

[neat bolt]

How bad of an idea is mixing train lengths

[ashen girder]

Just need to take care with it. Not the end of the world.

Remember platforms are unidirectional, though.

I have multiple 4 car trains and a 1 car train booping around on my network.

[neat bolt]

yee, just... struggling with building an effective train station

[ashen girder]

And one of the 4 car trains only uses #3 and #4.

So it sorta runs around half naked which is funny.

[cerulean stratus]

I haven't actually tried trains this run

but can you now make a train station inside another train station?

[neat bolt]

Me and a friend got this big, big platform for our megabase, but I am unsure on how to set up the train stations inside

[ashen girder]

I don't think you can, no.

[cerulean stratus]

This is working

[plain rivet]

1.0 is my first time trying to seriously use trains and I also find the inability to have more control over what they do and do not pick up challenging

without making a billion stations and trains

[ashen girder]

Hook up platforms and see what happens?

[ashen girder]

You can filter by item type, yeah?

[plain rivet]

where?

[ashen girder]

In the time table settings for the station.

[plain rivet]

in the train's timetable?

i'll have to look again

so I can set car 1 to only deal with say caterium, and if it stops at a station where platform 1 is not caterium, it will just ignore it?

[ashen girder]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Stop_settings

[plain rivet]

anyway, i'll look this evening. I didn't notice any interface options for filters the first time i set it up

[ashen girder]

Yeah, you can tell it only pick up caterium or ignore something in particular at any particular stop.

It's not per car, unfortunately though.

[plain rivet]

i must have overlooked the cogwheel. cool, that will make things somewhat easier

[ashen girder]

Yeah, it's not a lot but it helps. 😄

[plain rivet]

get rid of the need for most of the blank spaces i was having to leave in stations or trains

[cerulean stratus]

oh wow I didn't see that

but what if a freight station has like 3 parts mixed up, can I tell it to choose 1?

[plain rivet]

yeah, looks like "load only" will limit

i'm assuming those 3 parts aren't all mixed into teh same platform

[ashen girder]

You can, yeah.

Have y'all not seen the shaking animation? It's my favorite one. 🤣

[cerulean stratus]

so it works like a smart splitter?

[ashen girder]

I suppose so, yeah.

[cerulean stratus]

wait not a smart splitter, no, this is a programmable splitter

[ashen girder]

Same problem as a smart splitter with no overflow, though: you can accidentally block one type if it fills up the wrong way.

[plain rivet]

wait, it's smart enough to grab specific parts out of the station where there is a mix in a single platform?

[ashen girder]

Pretty sure it is, yeah.

[plain rivet]

seems like you'd still have isues with clogging if all the mixed parts weren't throughput exactly

i'll stick to one part per platform i think

[cerulean stratus]

Sushi trains let's gooooo

[ashen girder]

Yeah, that's what I mean with it clogging like a smart splitter does.

[plain rivet]

now that i think about it, that's much less useful than i thought. i just need more trains

[ashen girder]

Yeah, I basically never use that functionality.

But it'd be good if you're trying to feed different places different stuff picked up from different places.

I usually just do 1:1 runners though.

[cerulean stratus]

I did, this is working!

[ashen girder]

So a train at the front station can load/unload from the 2nd platform?

[plain rivet]

the problem is i have a traing that picks up caterium at point A in car 1, and is picking up modular frames at point B in car 2, i still need an empty platform at point b so car 2 lines up

for example

or i just run 2 trains

[ashen girder]

Maybe you can use Spaghetto's newfound technology. 🤣

[plain rivet]

and only need one platform at each

[cerulean stratus]

yes

[plain rivet]

how much energy is a train?

[ashen girder]

That's wild.

25 - 110MW, 50MW per station, 50MW per platform.

Actually -8 to 110MW if you wanna be like that about it.

But that's more like 25-33MW to 110MW.

..I would probably just do the empty platform.

[deft lichen]

Platforms only draw power when un/loading

Stations constant 50 MW

[ashen girder]

Hmmm. You sure about that?

[deft lichen]

Unless it changed in 1.0, yes

[ashen girder]

Interesting.

[deft lichen]

Inversely U8 had bugged stations and they only took 0.1 MW

[plain rivet]

so the train itself draws 25-110? like if it's going uphill or something?

[ashen girder]

And here I thought trains having wildly swingy energy was because of acceleration/deceleration and regenerative braking.

[deft lichen]

When accelerating

[ashen girder]

Or accelerating from a stop, yeah.

It'll pull up to 110 as it starts and then the power drops as it gets to cruising speed.

[plain rivet]

i'm going to need more power

[ashen girder]

MOAR POWER

Build an APA. 😁 Give in to the alien juice.

[plain rivet]

i have one. i'm miserly with my sloops right now though

[cerulean stratus]

I wonder if I should use trains for my biomass challenge... (lol)

[sand goblet]

is fuel generator overclocking linear ? so one at 250% clock burns rocket fuel at 10.41 / min ?

[ashen girder]

I would probably just use belts if I were trying to only use biomass.

[cerulean stratus]

yes

[ashen girder]

The concept is correct, I have no idea if the math is.

[topaz sundial]

m a t h

[deft lichen]

Yes. Use the exact number for calculations, which is 60/14.4 at 100% so 2.5*60/14.4 for 250%

[oblique hollow]

base rate times 2.5
so 4.16666 x 2.5 = 10.4166666
ye

[cerulean stratus]

it is linear, so have fun overclocking your hundreds of generators

[plain rivet]

yeah, it's linear, if you have the shards, overclocking gens is a great space saver with no downside.

[sand goblet]

thx

[topaz sundial]

m a t h

[sand goblet]

ye gotta for about 1.5k powershards XDD

[ashen girder]

Copy and paste, baby.

[cursive heron]

I wish they made packaged versions for dissolved silica and dm residue

[deft lichen]

Why didn't you go for nuclear at that point

[cerulean stratus]

i don't think it works for fuel generators

[ashen girder]

What

[sand goblet]

4x generator blueprint is ready haha

[ashen girder]

That's stupid. 😂

[deft lichen]

There's no loopback and the recipe is 1:1, why??

[fallen geyser]

so i'm trying to set up rocket fuel production/generators on the western beach and have a few sanity checking questions. first off, is the nitro rocket fuel alt a trap if my limiting factors are coal and sulfur?

[sand goblet]

wanted to keep everything contained in blue crater

wanna do nuclear later

[deft lichen]

🤷

[cursive heron]

which one

[oblique hollow]

yes, default rocket fuel uses less sulfur and nitrogen

[ashen girder]

People here: "I produce 300 billion gigawatts of power! Now to finish phase 3!"
Me: "I beat the game with 60GW."

[deft lichen]

Dissolved silica production and usage. Forgot how they're called, but they work out 1:1

[ashen girder]

Quartz Purification and Distilled Silica, apparently.

[deft lichen]

People here: just finished my 2 kilomegawatt power plant

[ashen girder]

Also, it's 1:2. 😉

[deft lichen]

Huh, is it?

[plain rivet]

i was at 11ish GW when i finished phase 3. which was recently. and i had power to spare.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, distilled runs twice as fast.

[cursive heron]

silica is 120 quartz into 60 dissolved into 135 silica

[deft lichen]

How on earth did I misread that

I was probably looking at the cycle count

[ashen girder]

Because the numbers match up, so it's trickery.

[deft lichen]

Well, the wiki article is wrong

[ashen girder]

Oh, is it?

[cursive heron]

was just imaging a world where I could distil quartz and package it for better throughput on drones

[deft lichen]

Yeah, I wrote it's 1:1 in the mean section

The recipes are correct

[cursive heron]

ie cause transporting 60 silica is easier than 120 quartz for them drones

[ashen girder]

Oh. 😂

Still, 1:2 ain't bad ratios at all.

[deft lichen]

You can fix that for me right 🥺 (on a bus now)

[fallen geyser]

okay, followup question: the most coal-efficient process to get turbofuel here to go crude -> heavy oil residue -> diluted fuel -> normal turbofuel, right?

[cursive heron]

specially in this hypothetical scenario it would stack to 100 which means a drone is transporting 900 packaged dissolved silica

[oblique hollow]

if you wanna save coal specifically, use Turbo Blend fuel

[cerulean stratus]

Also works like this

[oblique hollow]

Turbo Blend needs no coal at all

[cerulean stratus]

Ye it uses coke

[ashen girder]

Done and done.

[oblique hollow]

and the compacted coal you get back can be recycled if you want
Else it goes into the garbage

[cerulean stratus]

it's kind of op honestly

[deft lichen]

Appreciated!

[fallen geyser]

Okay see that's the last thing I was getting to

Making rocket fuel produces compacted coal, right, and compacted coal can be used to make turbofuel, which can be used to make more rocket fuel

[deft lichen]

SFTools should show the loopback

[wind spade]

they do (unless a bug is there)

[fallen geyser]

Ah okay, I'm using satisfactory-calculator and the loopback breaks its math

[deft lichen]

It can't do loopbacks or any optimization

[ashen girder]

SCIM's planner isn't great. 😕

[wind spade]

yeah SCIM can't really deal with loops or byproducts

[fallen geyser]

Shame too, manually entering all my alts is such a pain

[cerulean stratus]

I wonder what if these 2 trains touch

[wind spade]

you can make empty tab with all your alts and then clone it for each new production

[plain rivet]

what is a good ratio of casing to sheets when staring aluminum?

[deft lichen]

This could be very problematic. It caused trains to get hard stuck in some older versions

[cursive heron]

how inappropriate

[wind spade]

0 to 0 until you find out how much of what you need

[cursive heron]

👉 👈

[fallen geyser]

But my general idea was that I wanted my rocket fuel plant to also spit out enough cluster nobelisks and turbo ammo into the depot to keep me strapped for the rest of the game, and I calculated that they'd need about 60/s of both sulfur and coal for the requisite black powder

[plain rivet]

in that case it's 100 sheets to zero casings. because i want to make mk5 belts. but that seems like it's probably not for the best

[cursive heron]

you honestly don't need to go ham on throughput when it comes to your blicky, the only thing consuming it is you

[fallen geyser]

So the idea was to use all of the sulfur and coal to make compacted coal initially, start the rocket fuel process with that, get some diminishing returns, and then once the output of the final iteration is barely above 60 compacted coal, I route that back into the first input, which frees up 60/s of coal and sulfur to make black powder instead

[cursive heron]

if its running thats more than enough

[deft lichen]

@cerulean stratus I really mean this, doing this could cause a lot of problems

[fallen geyser]

would this work or am I insane

[deft lichen]

One train docking blocking all platform I/O, or getting stuck in docking until the save is reloaded

[cursive heron]

'tf you lookin at m8'

[cerulean stratus]

I see, that is pretty bad. Fortunately this is just a testing save

[deft lichen]

You can test if it still happens

[cerulean stratus]

Alright, so this abomination of a train station works correctly

[ashen girder]

It's not that I hate you, it's just that that image inspires very unpleasant emotions in me.

[cerulean stratus]

"Hey, I'm Josh, and today we're playing with trains!"

[hasty nacelle]

Just put the main line next to the stations, and have a split/merge before/after the stations, so trains can go past the stations instead of through them.

[tulip canopy]

Could anyone help me with something regarding drones?

[cerulean stratus]

wait where are the settings?

ah it's on the train

[ashen girder]

Yeah, each train has its own settings per station.

[cerulean stratus]

This is really op for sushi

Although there is one issue here

And it's that I don't use trains

[fringe wren]

this hard drive research just saved my life

[fallen geyser]

Is there any way to get SFTools to show water inputs as individual little arrows localized to the specific building they feed instead of having one node labeled "Water (50000/s)" that connects to every other node in my flowchart so it's impossible to avoid ugly overlaps

I know this is extremely petty but it's been bugging me

[ashen girder]

Nope.

I mostly just do that stuff by hand at this point. All the major tools annoy me in some fashion or another. 😂

[wanton belfry]

what am I missing here... I remove the 1 compacted coal... 1 more feeds right in, but it stops at 1. why won't it fill?

[ashen girder]

SFTools is great for determining what recipes to use for the whole factory. It's not great for actually planning a factory.

[wanton belfry]

let me rephrase. It won't fill, but if I remove the belt and re add, then it fills to 1 and stops

[plain rivet]

and you don't have some weird mix on the belt i would imagine

[wanton belfry]

maybe I did.. cause I did it again and now it's filling. lol

yup.. found a coal in my inventory. must have been in the belt

[plain rivet]

and you have like 3 coal in your inventory i bet

[wanton belfry]

lol, yup.

[ashen girder]

So, if you accidentally fill a line with the wrong material, splitters will hold onto one item.

So when you delete and replace the belt, that one item'll pop out and try to get into the machine.

That means you have to delete and rebuild every single belt twice. 😂 I've done it more than once. I hate how similar alclad sheets and aluminum ingots are.

[wanton belfry]

asking others helps selft discover the issue. 🙂

[ashen girder]

(I did it more than once on the same god damned factory line even.)

[plain rivet]

i will forget to hookup the belts in a manifold like once per play session... 'why is only the first machine going?'

[ashen girder]

Or worse: forget the last one and not notice until your factory's screwing up hours later.

Did that one with my fuel gen plants. Forgot to sink one refinery's resin.

Worked great until THE WORLD EXPLODED. 🤣

[fallen geyser]

And then you spend an hour troubleshooting and the issue ends up being a lift that was visually connected but not actually transmitting items

[livid meteor]

Is it actually worth do do super state computers? It uses sulfur and aluminium which are kinda high valuable

[ashen girder]

Compare it across all the resources it uses.

It takes very, very little of everything else.

So worth it's going to be up to you.

[gray wing]

Should I make a steel factory first or modular frame factory?

[fallen geyser]

I get steel beams automated ASAP so I can lay down Mk. 3 belts to my heart's content but that's just my take

[rustic snow]

I have 6 mk3 belts, all together I have 1250 iron ingots a minute, I need to split some off into 600 a minute, I only have access to mk3 belts, so how would I split them off without going over or under 600 a minute?

[gray wing]

thank you, i'll do that first then

[deep geyser]

Agree with this

[fallen geyser]

2x fully saturated Mk3s (540), then use a Mk1 for the last 60

Alternately, split a fully saturated Mk3 into 9 outputs using 4 splitters, then merge two of those outputs. Or just, like, have a single splitter with one of the outputs as a Mk3 and the other as a Mk1

[rustic snow]

Okay thanks!

[fallen geyser]

Also this one works out nicely with a Mk1 belt because 270 + 270 + 60 = 600, but if you're ever in a situation where you need more than one belt can handle but the remainder is awkward to split to, you can just do the manifold thing where you feed a belt that you know has at least enough throughput on it and let it back up

Disregard this if you're dead-set on balancing everything obviouslyu

[hasty nacelle]

This rocket fuel production line can produce a lot more than just rocket fuel.

[tiny leaf]

anyone have a link for the rubber/plastic setup using alt recipes for 1 crude to 3 plastic/rubber?

[fallen geyser]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/pfh3ae/1_oil_to_3_plastic_map/

[tiny leaf]

cool ty

[fallen geyser]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/pfg0ax/1_oil_to_3_rubber_map_updated/#lightbox

literally have those tabs open rn lol

[tiny leaf]

lol yeah i just got the alts so im making a starter factory for them

thanks again

[fallen geyser]

Trying to set up oil processing without alts sounds like hell, can't imagine it

No problem!

[hasty nacelle]

Ideally your recycled plastic/rubber lines will be loops that feed into each other

Then you just supply more oil/fuel, and pull out what you need.

[tiny leaf]

its just a lot less efficient

[fallen geyser]

Literal first thing I did after unlocking oil processing was go on a hunt for hard drives and savescum for heavy oil residue + diluted packaged fuel

DPF being a thing is so funny

Like the entire niche is just that you can unlock it way before blenders

[livid meteor]

Does anyone know if this setup would work without issues?
I know that sloshing can be a problem or whatever it's called but I don't know when or how it occurs

[fallen geyser]

The mental image of this extremely serious process where I bottle water, dump crude oil residue into it to make fuel (?), and then dump the fuel out of the bottle to be refilled with water again

[oblique hollow]

add pumps in any case

[livid meteor]

Where?

[oblique hollow]

at the input

[livid meteor]

Before or after the junktion?

[fallen geyser]

What's all this I hear about Mk1 pumps being easier to troubleshoot than Mk2s btw

[oblique hollow]

before should be fine

[oblique hollow]

pipes, not pumps
but yes

[livid meteor]

Ok so in flow direction before junction I put pumps?

[oblique hollow]

ye

you want to give all those pipes going up a boost

so you put the pump before that

so they all have 20m or even 50m head lift

[ashen girder]

Might even need a second pump.

[oblique hollow]

with this few junctions i dont think so

[fallen geyser]

Satisfactory Shapez 2
🤝
fluid dynamics being glitchy as shit

[hasty nacelle]

It's like making soda, pour water into a container, add some syrup, shake it up and serve.

[ashen girder]

Yeah, said.

[livid meteor]

It's just my blender blueprint

[oblique hollow]

i thought shapez 2 was pretty damn well with the fluids

as it didnt have to deal with head lift and whatnot

[ashen girder]

Honestly, I don't think they're glitchy, it's more that nobody understands them. 😂

[fallen geyser]

Last I checked they have a persistent issue with controllable fluid gates/valves where they're considered part of the "wiring" so they update slower when out of LOD to cut down on CPU cycles (because the game is still single-threaded lol)

Which is a very fancy way to say that you can hook up a paint mixing platform, check that it's working at 100% efficiency

[oblique hollow]

huh.
I havent yet dealt with the controllabe stuff

[fallen geyser]

And then as soon as you stop looking at it it drops to 85%

Look at it and it immediately jumps back to 100%

[oblique hollow]

isnt that more of an issue in the efficiency graph calculation?

[ashen girder]

LOD doing what LOD do best. 😂

[livid meteor]

McGalleon can u tell me/explain how sloshing gets created?

Or more like what the cause of it is?

[fallen geyser]

Shapez 2 doesn't have an efficiency graph yet, you click on a specific building and the tooltip will show you a live calculation of its efficiency as a percentage

[oblique hollow]

are you worried slosh will impact your pipes negatively?

[livid meteor]

yea

[oblique hollow]

its pretty unlikely to happen unless you are at max flow

[livid meteor]

I just wanna setup the blueprints right and not be mad if in the end nothing works

Could happen tbh

[oblique hollow]

slosh is just a wave

[livid meteor]

I usually fill up most of my pipes

[oblique hollow]

machines output as fast as possible
so that crates a big wave of max flow fluid

[cerulean stratus]

Hey @oblique hollow does the priority splitter not work anymore?

[oblique hollow]

this wave slowly dissipates

[oblique hollow]

the VIP?
i tried it today without pumps and it worked fine

or do you mean overflow

[fallen geyser]

You can't track the efficiency of valves directly which is why people sometimes don't notice it, but if you have a painter being fed by a saturated pipe with this gate issue, you can literally click on it, scroll until its offscreen but the building detail UI is still up, and watch it drop to 85% in real time

[cerulean stratus]

yeah the overflow

[oblique hollow]

overflow still works fine

[cerulean stratus]

It was giving me like 112 flow, when it shouldn't

[oblique hollow]

might have been too short

[livid meteor]

Meh, I think adding a pump before that will be rough

[oblique hollow]

if you cant put it there, put it literally anywhere

[cerulean stratus]

Is this long enough?

The one I circled red had like 120 flow

[fallen geyser]

does this mean it's inadvisable to use pipes at capacity?

[oblique hollow]

how full is that large buffer in the back

[cerulean stratus]

not full at all

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 only
it has..... conditions™️

[cerulean stratus]

emptied it multiple times

[livid meteor]

I guess this will do

[oblique hollow]

tremove the junction at the top and try again

[cerulean stratus]

same result

[ashen girder]

Junctions are the new valves. 😁

[oblique hollow]

Mk 2 troubles simplified:
Junctions are naive and will try to equally merge fluid from any side
That means pipes going at max flow do NOT get any priority
if theres a shitty little pipe on the side flowing at like 5/min, the junction WILL try to merge that with a line going at 600/min
which, naturally, interrupts the 600/min line

[fallen geyser]

Many are saying this

[fallen geyser]

Oh that explains why I had to flush my aluminum processing water loop setup like 5 times before it worked lol

[ashen girder]

I've seen people have this exact issue with belts and mergers, funny enough.

[oblique hollow]

mergers behave the exact same way

anything thats slower usually gets priority over something thats faster

simply because mergers and junctions have the rule to give equal priority to any input

[ashen girder]

Yeah, and that can back up the full belt of you place it wrong.

[oblique hollow]

ye

for belts its a simple skill issue

[fallen geyser]

But it also means that manifolds work so it's impossible to say if it's good or not

[oblique hollow]

for pipes its more complicated

[cerulean stratus]

this is the same for the conveyors

[oblique hollow]

but its partially a skill issue
because the skill ceiling is so high

[oblique hollow]

i just said that

[cerulean stratus]

I can't read

[oblique hollow]

So of course, the pipes arent really broken
the logic is flawless

it works as intended

but that doesnt mean its good design

[fallen geyser]

Does this mean water is technically modeled on a code level as little 1m^3 droplets moving around inside an enclosed conveyor belt

"little"

[oblique hollow]

little LITERS sitting around a bidirectional bucket

and if the bucket is more full than another bucket it moves the little liters to the less full bucket

[fallen geyser]

This was my nickname in highschool

[ashen girder]

Little liters or bidirectional bucket?

[fallen geyser]

Yeah

[oblique hollow]

Bi-Bucket sounds very....

[ashen girder]

Lil liters isn't any better.