math-and-meta

[delicate chasm]

Yeah, that's nicer. You could even take out the 'likely' as we know for sure that it does use more energy, as you pointed out. :)

[quiet talon]

what is the picture from? what website/tool is that?

[wind spade]

no website, no tool. It's a planned look of new wiki (or separate tool) regarding recipe "analysis"

[median heath]

Quartz is scarce?

My only other gripe is that I genuinely consider "space" to be an important metric.
Which I'm assuming is what you meant by "complexity", but if there was a way to make that more clear I would appreciate you 💛

[wind spade]

space is basically covered under "product efficiency"

ah it actually isn't that much 🤔

I'm trying to remember what we decided upon, but iirc it was to either use space or power, but not both 🤔

[bleak coral]

I mean they're not neccesarily the same right? The pure/wet recipes immediately come to mind, since many of them are very fast but need refineries so increase power while decreasing space

I guess specifically if the machines changes, they might not match

[wind spade]

main problem with these comparisons is that you can only compare the recipe itself, not the ingredients' space/power requirements (due to alt recipes and stuff), so it becomes kinda pointless for pretty much anything other than ingots or simple products

[delicate chasm]

There's no real avoiding that at some point, the reader HAS to achieve the understanding that the value of any given item is relative. And dynamic. And variable. And that because of that, the relative value of a recipe is variable. 🙃

That's the whole reason there's any kind of debate on which information is the most salient information to provide to the reader regarding recipes, in regards to comparisons.

If we had the guarantee that every potential reader already understood the above before opening the wiki page (very unlikely), then it would be 100% safe and efficient to simply compare each recipe to its fellow alts and be done with it.
+33% Resource A consumption
-50% Resource B consumption
+25% building space in cubic meters required
-20% power used per item.

The reason for that just comes down to they would already automatically be making the correct types of comparisons in their head and the actual numerical data would be all they need.

But if the reader is NOT that person, then they will need context, and the context is the part that is hard to write about.

[west cedar]

is there math for how much a train can pull at a fast acceleration?

[wind spade]

exactly this.

If we would have standartized way of showing things and we'd have guarantee that people would understand that, it'll be great

but very often we get things like "X recipe saves power over default one", then the player uses recipe X and it uses more power, because the original claim doesn't factor in all the power needed to make things for recipe X

that's one of many reasons I've said that we should avoid direct comparisons as much as possible (with the exception of when it's super clear from the difference, like in the above example cost of ECRs and production of UFRs)

all the "power savings" and "space savings" would most likely go into the "recipe combos" section

[delicate chasm]

Even when planning forward, starting with resource efficiency, you kind of need to consider each step of the production chain. Ideally, even forward building players know to keep track of their inputs/outputs/requirements/availability of space in the location for the factory, so that they can anticipate the needs of each new building step.

This person could also benefit from the 'just numbers' comparison, but only because they have already calculated everything else going in. And we aren't likely to have either of the two people being described be the majority of users.

[wind spade]

in the end the best we can do seems to be "recipe is often used for X and can also do Y when combined with Z" kind of analysis and try to avoid exact numbers and percentages as much as possible

(most of the numbers can be generated from diff between the two recipes anyway)

[if we even want to show the two recipes and not just the one we're talking about]

most of the number-related comparisons are easier and better to do on some online tools anyway, as they are very dynamic based on tons of other stuffs

[median heath]

Copper runs contrary to this.
Pure Copper takes more space but has the highest return.
Copper Alloy has less of a return but saves a metric fuckton of space.

[bleak coral]

Also believe pure quartz does too, just didn't feel like looking up which was which, that's why I left it vague lol

[vapid gorge]

Yeah check the wiki page for the locomotive

[stark stratus]

I'm excited to start using the linked train network blueprint but before I fully commit I'm looking for ideas on how to best integrate the existing train stations into my intended playstyle. This blueprint comes with multiple mini train stations (1 station for 6 freight cars) and 5 train yards scattered around (~12 stacked mini train stations).

My goal is to make distributed sub-factories which make mid game products where those are shipped to a final assembly factory for all the end game items. My current plan is to break most of the single 6 freight car stations into two sets of 3 freight cars trains. The sub factories, such as a heavy frame factory, would have 1-2 ingredients brought by train and the rest sourced from local mines. Then a station there would distribute the final product to the rail network.

The downside is two-fold, first separating the 6 freight car stations requires the track be pulled up and elongated to fit another train station. Not all the train station breakouts will have space for this.... Second, it seems most sub-factories will require more than two sets of trains by the time you look at the needed inputs and set aside one for output. Perhaps converting to three sets of 2 freight car trains would be the better choice?

Any other thoughts on how to best utilize this train network?

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/megaprints/index/details/id/1219/name/Worldwide+Rail+Network+(240km)

[wind spade]

personally I'd build train network based on my needs rather than trying to implement my needs into existing network

[stark stratus]

Look at this gorgeous train track...even if i had to rebuild all the train stations that would be multiple times easier than creating a whole network from the ground up. I did that on my first playthrough but NEVER AGAIN

[vapid gorge]

is this your train track?

[wind spade]

creating "whole network" is definitely easier, as it will be tailored to your needs

it may take more time to build, but it'll save you time in the end

[stark stratus]

See the linked blueprint I'm using

[vapid gorge]

yes - I wasn't sure if you had uploaded it to the blueprints

I seem to recall someone fiddling with basically this exact junction a while back

there's a lot of extrenuous aspects to it

could remove the entire roundabout and compress it with just a few more ramps

[wind spade]

also yeah, roundabouts are meh

[vapid gorge]

also it's not clear that trains going straight ahead wouldn't also use the roundabout

it kinda looks like the roundabout might be longer and less preferable but not clear cut

[stark stratus]

Once i unlock trains I'll let you know

[vapid gorge]

if you want efficient and simple

I found this by the same guy as yours - I think it's a turbine, just fancy looking

I do stacked rail though so mine look a little different

[stark stratus]

So what I'm hearing is I should scrap the whole thing rather than reworking the train stations?

[wind spade]

build the network you want, not refit existing one 🤷‍♂️

(obviously do whatever you want, but it's a recommendation)

[vapid gorge]

It also largely depends what you have and what you need - which we don't know.

Maybe half of the old one can still be useful?

the way I think about a train network that has to have many stations the 'best' way to do it is to have a main line that goes through or near most of the points you need serviced and connect them as needed, or make small extentions branching off if they are a bit out of the way

[vapid gorge]

maybe get an image of the World Map, put dots where your factories are or will be on it, then trace a line you think is convenient for a train?

But that's me - you could want to do things differently ofc 😄 Nothing wrong with that, just depends what your end goal is. Which we don't know

[stark stratus]

Well the nice thing about the exisiting one is there's a train station branch near all the main node clusters.

[vapid gorge]

Ah yeah. I used to have that idea. I then scrapped it

[vapid gorge]

this was mine, fewer train lines but some large beltways that connected to it and under the rail too

[stark stratus]

Dang that's some good stuff

[vapid gorge]

the pink were belt segments like this , some of them under the rail here

Doing a very dif thing now. Making factories local for hte most part

[cinder silo]

And my very rudimentary train is quite far behind some of these huge networks 🤣

[vapid gorge]

does it service your needs? it's a good train then.

I'm going to have so few trains even on my massive map

Hell right now 2 of the 3 trains I have set up are purely aesthetic

[cinder silo]

You can pretty much see the entire rail system in this panning show as the train leaves aluminium production and heads back to the rooftop bauxite refinery.

[vapid gorge]

sounds like it does it's job xD

right now I have to convince myself after I build nuclear power to not swap my end goal to 1500 HMF pm

[cinder silo]

I do hope to see the beacon recipe get a change so I can actually use it with confidence without a post patch chaos failure.

[vapid gorge]

as in beacons are kept?

[cinder silo]

Or swapped for another ingredient, point is I have no clue and another large scale nuclear plant would be pointless using it if the entire thing got broken, it is a first class pita shutting down and redoing a nuclear setup along with the issues of suddenly having no power.

[vapid gorge]

Well, if beacons being removed is what gets you to load up a mod maybe it'll be worth it 😉

[cinder silo]

I still wouldn't mod, the potential change is the whole reason I'm not using that alt.

[wind spade]

given that you can control when you swap to U8, you can just build the new setup in U7, then change to U8 and just swap the two setups 😄

[vapid gorge]

ah thought you were already using it. Not sure what you mean by 'another large scale nuclear plant' would be pointless?

[cinder silo]

Still a pain shutting nuclear plants down to rearrange, I'd sooner avoid the issue, though when I do finally put more time in on my other save, the change might have gone through and I can build with confidence.

[cinder silo]

I have more than just the huge save 😛 , a new nuclear plant is bound to go up there, just without the monstrous turbofuel power station.

[wind spade]

disable your plutonium rod sinking setup and instead store plutonium rods
then with U8 route plutonium rods in your nuclear plants and change the setup in meantime 😄

[cinder silo]

My plutonium could fuel 50 reactors, but I'm still in a position to be able to run the entire show with the old turbofuel fortunately, redesigning the setup would probably take me as long as it took to build in the first place, large enough to cause a procrastination issue.

[true junco]

I would think the best way to reset a nuke plant would be to shut down the mines and let the system slowly clean itself out.

[cinder silo]

I have a setup just for that, throw the switch and all four mines turn off, it is the only place where I have a mine shutdown button.

[true junco]

Makes sense.

[sand epoch]

Faster to just scim delete it 🙂

[abstract thorn]

hey guys i got a question about nuclear reactors should i over clock it for more power if i did that it consume so much water it cant keep up what should i do?

[vapid gorge]

I believe that nuclear reactors clocked at 250% these days consume exactly 600 - so 1 mk2 pipe would do it

[abstract thorn]

1mk 2 pipe?

damn!!!

[vapid gorge]

as in 1 single mk2 pipe can feed a fully overclocked reactor

[abstract thorn]

oh that is amazing to know thank u so much

[vapid gorge]

have you checked out the wiki?

[abstract thorn]

not for this matter no all i check is for other things like recipes

[vapid gorge]

helpful for all the buildings and all that too 🙂

nuclear reactors are one of hte reasons I'd say it's fair to use the save editor to spawn power shards. Overclockign water extractors and generators is a life saver

[whole heron]

You don't need that many reactors in the first place though.

[abstract thorn]

sorry but my factory is so big rn i need more power

[vapid gorge]

'need' is highly subjective.

[whole heron]

No, I mean that it only takes about 475 shards to fully shard out full nuclear and the pumps.

Or about 160 for just the plants.

[vapid gorge]

really? so max nuclear is like 252 reactors and 2.5 extractors per

[whole heron]

Let me check.

[vapid gorge]

I think you're landing closer to 900 shards for full max uranium rod system

[whole heron]

Oh, I screwed up the math.

Max Uranium is about 50 rods/minute.

Which is 100 sharded reactors.

Forgot to divide by the burn rate.

[cinder silo]

No thanks.

[oblique hollow]

On the wiki, read the Locomotive Page on Forces and also the Freight Car page on weight. That should give you an idea

[oblique hollow]

One one hand, the recipe saves space by outputting more rods and saving on ECRs.
On the other hand it needs Oscillators and Beacons. But, especially with the alt for Oscillators, one manufacturer feeds about 3.123 Fuel Unit manufacturers. And the Beacon recipe feeds at least 6.25 Fuel unit manufacturers. Im not really sure how to properly, realistically show off space usage here

[median heath]

"Saves space by" searches for any mention of building count or size, as those are space metrics, instead finds... the name of another item??

[oblique hollow]

This is relatively speaking. Needs less materials = needs less buildings for said material

Also outputs more material = need less machines for this material

But im not comfortable putting either of those inti the benefits

as it might be negated by the increased cost and the building footprints those demand

Aaaaaand i dont wanna show conflicting or confusing info

[median heath]

My opinion/expectation:

Something like Bolted Plate needs to say that it's tradeoff outright is just "costs more materials per RIP but saves space by using the least amount of buildings"

Because it's literally 3x less of a footprint than base.

[oblique hollow]

Well for Fuel unit alt then i guess the extra output and decreased demand for ECR per rod counts as a space saver then

[median heath]

I mean the other thing to consider is actually just that one point in the chain.

[oblique hollow]

Ill just add a note to complexity downside then

[median heath]

Like if you're shipping materials in, the space requirements just for that one step can be relevant.
I.E. Crystal Comp vs. Any Other.
The fact you're using Assmeblers instead of Manufacturers is a consideration.

You made a similar point about Heavy Turbo a long time ago.

[oblique hollow]

I did? Was it along the line of "no 60000 refineries and blenders, thus it saves space"?

[median heath]

Indeed.
Like most things, the trade is space for resource conversion.

More you have of one, less you have of the other.

[oblique hollow]

Hm i guess

[median heath]

Which I mentioned to Ondar

Might be worth putting that as a blanket statement at the beginning if you don't want to reiterate that specific trade in every relevant recipe.

Like "general principles"
-mention space vs. resource
-mention how some things bring in a new resource to reduce the cost of all other things (sulfur's primary trade in a lot of things)
-etc

And then after stating the generalized principles get into the more specific stuff like what you have shown.

But the purpose of that general section is to really cement to the reader that everything is about trade-offs and deciding what metrics you personally care about.

[oblique hollow]

i mean if Uranium Fuel unit saves resources and is a bit faster...
i expect it to not save space

But i guess it depends on complexity in that case

[median heath]

"Faster"?

[oblique hollow]

0.6 rods/min instead of 0.4

Its just more efficient

Because it makes an extra rod

[median heath]

Why would you say faster is NOT space-saving?
When that's... how things save space.

Bolted Plate saves 3x the space because it is faster.

Which is why I say speed is an irrelevant metric and what is actually saved is space.
Because you can match speed with any recipe by just adding machines.

[wind spade]

For bolted the comparison is easy because it costs same resources. Here it costs different resources and that can't easily say if you'll save space overall or not. You will need less manufacturers making UFR, yes, but overall space depends

[sullen mulch]

Right I need a hand figuring out how to recycle and sink the waste from 64 uranium reactors, so I know it's 640 waste p/m but was wondering if anyone had an easy way to figure out how many plutonium fuel cells I can make to sink them

[cinder silo]

This site is a godsend for planning https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[sullen mulch]

yeah think I have that sorted now

[cinder silo]

👍

[sullen mulch]

the only nice numbers in that entire process are putting in 640 and coming out with 100 plutonium cells

[wind spade]

Embrace decimals

[sullen mulch]

yep, just going to have to suck it up

[cinder silo]

My 1050 uranium waste per minute nets me 5.25 plutonium fuel rods for sink 🙂 [edit] cleaned up discription mistake, fuel rods not cells.

I went to try crunching the numbers for you from that and my brain just went to clay, hence linking tools, I haven't had enough coffee since getting up.

[sullen mulch]

yeah hang on then something is wrong with what I've made getting 100 cells p/m

[cinder silo]

Cleaned up a mistake, I meant fuel rods, not cells.

[sullen mulch]

ahhhh yeah ok ok

right well that's a lot more work I didn't really think about

[cinder silo]

Definitely not enough coffee this morning 🙂

[sullen mulch]

haha

[wind spade]

Plutonium is a lot of work indeed, but gives you tons of extra power

[sullen mulch]

guess it's time to start designing the factory and planning the build space

well in this case I'm actually not interested in the power, I'm doing this purely to not have to worry about the waste

[cinder silo]

My plutonium processing is a whole facility of its own sitting directly under my uranium fuel rod plant.

[wind spade]

That is also a huge benefit so it makes sense that it's expensive 😛

(But also waste is much less of a problem than most people make it)

[sullen mulch]

yeah , I could just make a mega storage using blueprints but I spend so long building I know for a fact it will fill up quicker than I think, especially with me sitting idle way too often

[wind spade]

A few blueprints full of containers will fill up in several hundreds/thousands of hours

[sullen mulch]

hmmmmmm, maybe I could do a storage center to get the plant up and running and then work on the recycling as a new project

plan was to stick the processing somewhere on the backside of this but maybe I'll see what happens with the storage first

[wind spade]

I mean nothing stops you from making the processing now 😉

[sullen mulch]

well I think the maths for 1 large storage container gives me 37.5 minutes per container which means I can probably get 600 minutes per blueprint if I can squeeze 16 containers in that space

so potentially 10 hours per blueprint

[cinder silo]

Sorry I've been a bit slow, producing videos on the fly isn't my specialty, this is my plutonium processing facility : https://youtu.be/RvH2myCJoXo , takes in 1050 uranium waste per minute, you can see a rough idea of the scale ahead.

[sullen mulch]

yeah so lots of work ahead, I'm not even close to done with the exterior of what I have built already

[cinder silo]

My entire nuclear chain took me about six weeks to build, and a further week or so to troubleshoot since it was the very first time I ever built in to nuclear at all.

[sullen mulch]

but this isn't so bad, might just use round number inputs and have smart splitters to make a suhi belt of waste for a sink

yeah, this has taken me months but thats just because I'm on and off the game and did a lot exterior stuff first

[cinder silo]

My partitcle accelerators are running at 175% to conserve space because I built at the bottom of the grasslands waterfall, cliffs either side were my space restrictions.

[sullen mulch]

yeah, I was thinking there were very few accelerators for how much waste you deal with

thankfully out in the desert space isn't an issue

[cinder silo]

1050 waste zooming past on two belts does have a way of looking intimidating 🤣

[sullen mulch]

dude just the thought of my one belt scares me, this is my first nuclear excursion too so I'm really crossing my fingers

[cinder silo]

Save before power on, that's pretty much how I did it, run a lot of soft-power-ups to check the system before truly committing.

This is an overhead of most of the uranium support facilities, the plutonium is below it in the waterfall area and the main power station is in the distance on top of that waterfall.

[sullen mulch]

yeah, that's what all of this is for, plan on trying to fill the manifolds 1 by 1 and then give it a save before I let the fuel go

[cinder silo]

The clip got modestly borked because someone pinged my discord while I was capturing 🤣 , but I was too lazy to edit it.

[sullen mulch]

haha well atleast you can get clips up, I have to chuck all of mine through adobe media encoder to nuke the file size

[cinder silo]

Obs studio to capture and davinci resolve to edit, both you can use free of charge.

[sullen mulch]

yeah, for quick clips I just use shadow play and I get the entire adobe suite for £60 a year at uni

[cinder silo]

I do downscale to 1080p though, because my native res would net sickening sized files that most people wouldn't benefit from.

[sullen mulch]

yeah, I'm playing at 3440x1440 so discord is a pain in the ass to shrink for

[cinder silo]

I started using clips instead of stills because one clip way beats multiple pics and can get way more accross.

3840x2160 here, not sure discord would like that.

[sullen mulch]

yeah it definitely helps fill in the gaps a bit

and no, discord would get a bit cranky at that

[cinder silo]

When my clips are below 100mb I can drop them right in to discord which is very convenient, above that like the plutonium processing above I need to toss on to youtube first then link.

[sullen mulch]

yeah, since I'm not using nirto I have to work some magic to just drag and drop clips in here

[cinder silo]

the 5.25 plutonium rods I have going in to the sink at the end there if I really needed I could use to power another 50 reactors.

No nitro here either.

[sullen mulch]

hang on did they change discords upload limit then

[cinder silo]

The videos have let me drop 100mb files for ages, but actual files were still limited to 8mb, recently it seems I can drop larger files because my save fits in now and that is 27mb.

[sullen mulch]

huh, weird

[cinder silo]

According to some that file size limit went up in april? , not totally sure but it happened without fanfare, I had no idea.

[sullen mulch]

yeah I remember it going from 5mb to 8mb

[cinder silo]

I've been trying to compress short guides in to the 100mb clip size, such as how to have a wall socket on a floor or how I build double doors.

Still so much editing needed but the raw files help people enough.

[sullen mulch]

yeah they would do, shame there aren't easier ways to find out about building tips like those

[cinder silo]

Some folks have youtube guides up, I've been far too busy to get mine finished and uploaded, here is the raw double door footage:

It's a 90mb file but contains enough detail even without proper editing.

[deft lichen]

that's such a cool looking bridge for the belt

[wind spade]

@prisma kraken this is what tools show, isn't that what you want?

[prisma kraken]

no, it would instead be 3x smelter at 91.666667

[wind spade]

ah, so you don't want to get rid of weird numbers, you want them equal 😄

[prisma kraken]

its just a calculation i do quite often

[wind spade]

that's basically implemented already in the old tools, but given that I'm working on new ones, I don't think it'll be added to the old ones

[prisma kraken]

no prob, i'm just mentioning it as a possible feature i'd find useful

[oblique hollow]

dont you mean "implememted in new tools already"?

[wind spade]

no, it's in old tools... just there's no UI setting for it

https://github.com/greeny/SatisfactoryTools/blob/dev/src/Tools/Production/Result/MachineGroup.ts#L29-L74

[prisma kraken]

there's a very big delta between getting the numbers from your tool and turning that into an actual factory design

which isn't a criticism, if it did all of that for you, things would be a lot less fun

my bringing it up is that i was just doing that calculation for the 1000th time and decided to write a bit of code to do it, and wanted to mention it to you as something that would be useful

[wind spade]

as I said, it's pretty much finished in old tools, but without UI settings 🤷‍♂️ and will be a thing in new tools, once those come out

[prisma kraken]

🙂

[true junco]

Liquid waste when? 😆

[prisma kraken]

probably never

[whole heron]

If you could have it in liquid form, you could just flush it.

[pallid hull]

Jeez that's a LOT of power, barely even turning profit

[true junco]

They could disable flushing 😳
Just like you cant sink it...
😆

[deft lichen]

what happens if you dismantle the pipe

[true junco]

Spill? Idk. Lol.

Look. I just said an idea. Not that it was an easy or good one. Lol

[frosty owl]

I think making an exception for pipe flushing based on content (which pipes already keep track of) would be about as hard as making sinks not accept some radioactive items (if not easier)

[true junco]

If i had the time, inclination, and knowledge, i would make the worst mod ever... everything i want to do with a mod would make the game harder. 😆

[wind spade]

it would be harder

[whole heron]

Worst mod would be a mod where conveyor belts need insane amounts of power.

[heavy gust]

[delicate chasm]

Surely the worst would be excess power blows your fuses, necessitating precisely tuned power setups topped with geothermal + power storages to remain stable (or separate grids tuned to 1:1 consumption/production)

[tropic hawk]

or one that means factory parts wear out

[indigo solstice]

hey all
i'm planning out my endgame factory. i'm currently calculating using nuclear plants for 1 plutonium per minute.
when i look through the graph it shows this part:...
but doesn't that mean that these reactors will produce power as well?
like, i need them to produce nuclear waste for the accelerator, which is then used to power other reactors with plutonium?
the planner says i need 5GW for the whole chain - do you reckon that includes the power from these 20 reactors (50 GW)?

[noble timber]

What do you mean exactly?

[indigo solstice]

like
the plan calls for 21GW of power. thats doable with 1 plutonium fuel rod.
but to produce that rod i need uranium waste.
which needs power plants to produce. those plants also produce power. even more than i would get from the plutonium
so... whats the point of plutonium?

[noble timber]

More power

Also a means to have a waste free world a plut fuel rods can be sunk in the awesome sink

[indigo solstice]

uranium cant?

[noble timber]

It can by why would you do that?

Wasting power to make uranium fuel rods for nothing

[indigo solstice]

yeah no of course

so it's more like using the waste product for something useful (making more power from it)

and not so much only using it in order to produce plut to use that for power

[noble timber]

Depends. If you use plut as power you still end up with waste

If not it gets turned into coupons

[indigo solstice]

hmm but then again, why would you use plut rods for power then

[noble timber]

Because you might need that power, and people like doing max power setups

[bleak coral]

Plut rods also produce less waste, and you make less plut rods out of the waste than uranium rods used to make the waste

It's like a 20x reduction by default

Less if you use plut alts

[noble timber]

It’s also much more radioactive but the radiation argument is worthless in my opinion as it will take literal decades of playtime to radiate your world

[bleak coral]

Also does the increased radiation outpace how much less waste you make? I've never seen anyone do that math

[noble timber]

Plutonium waste is 20 times more radioactive

[bleak coral]

Ah, so it's the same by default, and worse if you use the alts

[noble timber]

(Uranium waste has an item decay value of 10, plut waste is 200)

But again, in my opinion the no waste argument is just as invalid as resource cost arguments

[lusty summit]

First photo, pure ingot recipe (seems fine)
2nd photo, basic hmf without any alternative recipe
3rd photo, basic hmf with pure iron ingot alternative
both 2nd and 3rd photos have the same output which corresponds to my max coal allocation to this production line

the problem here is, the iron ore use dosn't add up mathematically with pure iron ingot use

or my brain is melted and i'm doing the wrong calculations since 2 hours

if someone can explain me what is going on that would be really nice tbh

even with just the base recipe, how can total iron ingot can be lower than total iron ore usage

it just dosnt really add up

[bleak coral]

Are you using solid steel ingot?

Cause you need raw iron for the steel otherwise

[versed violet]

You get the contents in your inventory ofc.

[lusty summit]

yeah nvm, greeny fixed my stupid mistake

i forgot to include solid steel ingot

3 wasted hours

idk how i forgot this basic issue

https://tenor.com/view/dented-head-head-smile-gif-12205170

[versed violet]

Worst mod idea: Add weather with storms where every tall building gets zapped occasionally, blowing the fuse to connected machines. Also zzaps power lines.
Would introduce a grounding rod that can protect from lightning or act as infinite consumption if you want to manually blow fuse 😉.
Oh, and totally hits you for 99 dmg if you happen to be the tallest thing around or close to building it hits 😂

[wind spade]

each belt would need a pioneer to stand there and turn a crank in order for it to move

[versed violet]

Tier 2 milestone: hamster wheels! (for hogs)

[lusty summit]

the only way to make vehicles more useful than conveyors would be that

but it would be not that fun though

[wind spade]

you'd still need conveyors to output from vehicle station 😛

[lusty summit]

technically speaking, you could in theory say that conveyors are getting powered through the machines own power

it wouldnt be bad to implement something similar to trains where the machines use more power when they first start

but who cares, that wouldnt chagne anything

[lusty summit]

yeah, i meant long distance conveyors

i strictly use conveyors for short distances

[noble timber]

What about conveyors not attached to a machine? 😛

[lusty summit]

They would require a machine that rolls them ofcourse, something that connects to them and requires electricity connection maybe?

But as i said this would add complciation for no reason, i see it being useful for "hardcore" game but i doubt css will ever bring something like that

[cinder silo]

Not really, I still have like 300gw free.

[pallid hull]

How much is it maximum for one machine

[cinder silo]

I'll need a couple of minutes to laod up and check, no exaggeration 😛 , bear with me.

[pallid hull]

I'm not gonna judge your for your massive world, tho a few minutes on 64 gb ram and a 12900k, Is still mind boggling

[cinder silo]

It's only getting slower (still loading btw) because I have two more installations under construction.

Finally loaded in, omw to the processing plant.

It's 1576.6 at most, not even one reactor, there are six particle accelerators taking in the waste from a hundred reactors.

So barely even turning a profit is a colossal exaggeration 😛

[true junco]

To be fair. I can definitely find out exactly how much power conveyors do take IRL.

BUT step one for this "hard mode" mod would be a 3-phase powergrid, including various voltages for transmission and machines etc.

😆

[median heath]

One day they will add a satis-modded channel for these discussions 😭

[whole heron]

Do we need transformers?

[true junco]

For my crazy assed ideas... yes.

Lol.

[tropic hawk]

1: use SatisfactoryTools.
2: yes the power plants generate power, hence the name. for just 20 reactors, i think 55 GW is around right, not too sure

[indigo solstice]

SatisfactoryTools can't create a graph for plutonium because it doesn't generate the intermediate power plants for the required nuclear waste

[mystic moon]

You create a plan for the power, and then you add the waste as an input for plut

[tropic hawk]

use the beta

[indigo solstice]

I thought I did actually?
Or wait, is the UP6 version something different?

[mystic moon]

u6.satisfactorytools.com

[indigo solstice]

Yeh I was using that
You have to add the waste as input.
SatisfactoryCalculator generates the graph including them directly

[tropic hawk]

yep, the beta site is beta.satisfactorytools.com

[indigo solstice]

Aaaah right ok

[indigo solstice]

same tho
only caluclates plut rods when uranium waste is marked as input

[vapid gorge]

Just use regular tools and input the waste. Takes 2 seconds

[indigo solstice]

i know. i was just saying it's something the calculator can do but the tools can't
nothing more

[wind spade]

Have you enabled nuclear plant in "power"?

[indigo solstice]

😮

great stuff!

now the only thing missing is that the power from those plants is subtracted from the overall power requirements i think?

[wind spade]

Yeah, it's called beta for a reason 😛

[indigo solstice]

oh sorry 😄 i didnt want to impose X)

it shows up as byproduct tho

so almost there 🙂 thanks for the great work!!

maybe one last question; the beta shows update 5, is this relevant? im not up to potential changes that affect the production

[wind spade]

Yeah beta is on U5. Current status is that I'm making new tools from scratch, so both beta and cureent tools are not getting updates

[indigo solstice]

i see, great. thanks for all the work 🙂

[lusty summit]

Calculator added to vanilla game would be so nice, with a feature where you can link the whole diagaram, tree list to a board too

It would be really cool to have it ingame 😁

[delicate chasm]

That's actually a mod worth having I'd say. If that ever gets made, I'd consider modding the game even prior to 1.0.

[mystic verge]

ok i have a question about fluid packaging

is it a good idea to package fluids and transport them on train cars as items rather than in fluid cars? a friend suggested it and im not sure if it would be beneficial since the power cost seems astronomical

[oblique hollow]

both are pretty much equal, fluid car vs packaged fluid in solid cars

Fluid cars have limited space, while solid cars are larger but need a second car to transport the empty canisters back to the packaging site

Only exception: Gas. Always package that. Very space efficient

[mystic verge]

how so?

[oblique hollow]

one bottle fits 4 m³ of gas

instead of the usual 1 m³ per canister / bottle

while fluid cars still only hold the same amount as with other liquids

[mystic verge]

would it still hold up for longish journeys?

[oblique hollow]

sure. as long as you dont need 1560/min of packaged gas

[mystic verge]

i mean i might but not for just one factory

[oblique hollow]

then you just need second set of freight cars and you now have double the throughput

if a small train is not enough > get a bigger train

[mystic verge]

i was just thinking of having multiple trains pull from one resource well

[oblique hollow]

if you split the gas up over all trains, then im sure you wont have throughput issues

but at that point, if demand is very low, consider drones

they can hold 900 bottles per flight

so 3600 m³ of gas

more than a fluid freight car

[mystic verge]

currently drones arent feasible for where we are production wise

[oblique hollow]

no batteries?

[mystic verge]

not yet no

dont even have mk3 miners yet

[oblique hollow]

definitely consider them once you do have batteries

[midnight willow]

what Id also love is an ingame production display similar to factorio where you can see like how much per min of everything you are making/consuming. Would be very useful for planning and stuff since stuff can be so spread out

Also just got drones going. the alt battery recipe helps a LOT

[wind spade]

not sure how it would be useful for planning, as in Factorio you don't use it for planning either

[midnight willow]

because knowing you have say 1000 iron ingots being made per minute but only use 740 means you know you have a surplus you can use

in factorio its just a flex/check thing I just mean that view as the example

[wind spade]

I mean you know that you have those numbers right? because you planned to make/consume that much

[midnight willow]

I mean you know I said that knowing that right?

[wind spade]

(not to mention that I don't see why would you build 1000 if you need 740 🤔 )

[midnight willow]

It doesnt change the fact that it would be a useful pane of glass imo.

Ok I will half apologize as I forgot I was in the math and meta channel so yea.. fair enough. it was more of a general thing imo

[true junco]

6 to 18months ago i did. I have since forgotten what i am making, where, and for why. 😆

[wind spade]

that's what signs are for 😛

[true junco]

Yeah... i use signs a lot more now...

I wish signs were a bit more dynamic in our options for formatting, layout etc. But thats a whole other thing.

[median heath]

Why would make 1000 if you needed only 740? 🤔

[whole heron]

Because I lost count after 690.

[delicate chasm]

It's kind of fun also to try to find inventive ways to use stuff you are making. Some "technically not inefficient" additions to the plan.
I'd like to see some of the math-hard players take over a save that is already producing massive quantities of base materials like ingots and see what happens. (besides quitting and refusing the challenge)

[median heath]

If I took over a save that was producing massive quantities of things for no reason the very first thing I would do is trim everything down to be producing what is needed for specific reasons.

[delicate chasm]

That's fair! Answers my main question which would be 'How would the player approach the problem?'.

[fading urchin]

Just wondering, can I reliably use drones to transport ores potentially 2km one way? Is a possible answer just more drones?

[median heath]

Can we ask why you're transporting ore?

[whole heron]

It's a pretty bad idea considering ore has small stacks and you produce a crapton of it.

[fading urchin]

I like to do all my refining/smelting in one place instead of shipping ingots. Just kinda the way I’ve always played, on my train network I move the ore instead of ingots then begin the production chain at the receiving location

[delicate chasm]

I mean...the viability is dependent upon what you need at the destination site. 2-3 drones can share a destination port from 2km away without interfering with one another overmuch but the takeoff and landing animations might necessitate extra drone port destinations.

Your limitation is how much battery you want to supply to the logistics effort.

[median heath]

I like to do all my refining/smelting in one place instead of shipping ingots.

If you're smelting it all in one place, are you not still shipping ingots from that one place to other places?

[whole heron]

Have you considered just using a node that's closer?

[fading urchin]

Nope I’m not, I should rephrase that to something along the lines of “for each project”, I just process ingots at the destination then put them straight into the next production line

[median heath]

Would it not be better to locate each project in a place where you don't really have to ship things to it?

[fading urchin]

I’m not super stressed about batteries, I have 450/min build with only three active drones in the save

[delicate chasm]

I can dig it. Compartmentalizing each production node regardless of outside factors. A worthy challenge at least to pull off logistically.

[fading urchin]

I mean, it probably would but that’s just not how I play the game ya know?

[median heath]

Self-inflicted issues, got it. 👍

[delicate chasm]

I think you can do better than the team of drones here for elegant logistics but you have what you need already for the drone ports and can afford to spam them to cover throughput deficiencies.

[fading urchin]

Hahah you could say that but i think of it more like, I want to build something here (picks location based on landscape appeal) then figure out how to get what I want or need there

[delicate chasm]

You'll get respect for that in #design-and-architecture 😛

[fading urchin]

Currently haven’t prospected any nodes specifically, just don’t feel like building more trains hahaha

Thanks for the input everyone, this will take much consideration

[sand epoch]

Drones can do ore easy enough, but personally the only ore I drone is coal, sulfur and uranium

[vapid gorge]

It’s not hard to build very local factories though 😦

[fading urchin]

So I remember we spoke about this not too long ago, and I went and referenced that conversation just now but I'm having a hard time figuring out how much nuclear waste I'm going to be producing, struggling to wrap my brain around the numbers. I want to have 25 nuclear gens at 200%. So far I've planned for 10 uranium fuel rods per minute, first off is that going to be enough, and second, when the generator is OC, that also increases the amount of waste produced, correct?

[wind spade]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Nuclear_Power_Plant

all info is here

also overclocking increases both fuel usage and power/waste production proportionally. So 200% clocked gen behaves the same as two 100% clocked gens

[fading urchin]

Thanks for that link I appreciate it, I was going off the codex on sftools and didn't realize there was also a slider. But that helps knowing it's the same amount of waste

I have trouble remembering that part

[vapid gorge]

Calc it by number of rods pm you burn. It’s 50 waster pm per rod

[oblique hollow]

its 50 waste per rod.
the per minute value is 10/min

[vapid gorge]

sorry yeah brain is a bit fuzzy

[frosty owl]

Btw @cinder silo, remember when we (mostly) brushed off the reduction of splitters'/mergers' internal buffers as "won't even notice"...?

Well ... my new sushi now has to be modified to account for that
Silly me for trying to ignore that part, I guess...
Edit: I moved this from #satisfactory to here, more pertinent

[vapid gorge]

yeah we don't even notice. 😛

[delicate chasm]

#satisfactory message

I've been messing with fluid buffers because community wisdom is "they literally have no function" (just fluid train storage buffer so you can run the train station's supplier continuously instead of starting/stopping production at a higher clock speed)

Preliminary observations are showing that they drastically increase backflow problems in systems that aren't prefilled or which have bottom fed machines, but given that fill percentage of 5 versus fill percentage of 400 is a factor of 80 (!!!) units of water in the buffer for 1 unit of water in a short pipe segment, the effects of backflow to the manifold behind the buffer are never felt in the feed pipe on the other side of the buffer.

And since that is the actual issue with bottom feeding machines, the result is that the bottom fed machine is continuously supplied.

The idea that it isn't doing anything comes from what it does when you don't prefill, and if you are going to spend time prefilling and you can engineer the system without the fluid buffer to begin with, you will just do that. I think the buffer has thoroughly slipped through the cracks and is not well understood.

Needs more testing. I'll have screenshots and math tonight for what I'm testing if anyone is interested in seeing if the buffers do indeed only mask problems or if they can be used to solve backflow.

[whole heron]

What is your opinion of using a buffer for temporary aid while a feedback loop is being set up?

[delicate chasm]

I don't really have one. I haven't used buffers much because like everyone else, I haven't found them to be actually USEFUL for something that I couldn't engineer around anyway.

I don't do that with dry storage either - I just leave the miner on while building the smelters or refineries and let the system fill itself and begin working while I'm still building. If I need what I'm automating in small quantities first I'll just batch it from a handful of hand fed machines.

[oblique hollow]

If you want smooth flow, then you use buffers in an equalizer build and add pumps before and after that build

that IS a valid use of buffers

[delicate chasm]

👍 Yeah, I agree. I didn't mention that because it's one of the things you can engineer out and only rarely will you encounter a system that the alternative solutions don't work for, if ever.

[true junco]

I wanted to ask about that bit. The manual makes the pumps sound optional on the flow equalizers. Why would you need them beyond any normal headlift needs?

[oblique hollow]

on the other hand, if you REALLY want some odd flow, then you add a secret build called an Oscillator

imma share a drawing of that when i get home

[true junco]

Want. I want weird stuff.

[oblique hollow]

pumps seperate pressure dependancy

aaaand prevent backflow

so now the head lift doesnt depend on the buffer anymore

like, if you want full flow, you usually would have to fill the buffer a lot

and any kind of verticality demands you to fill the buffer even more

trouble is that the buffer cant do the nice smoothening anymore if that happens

if you have a pump on a pipe, you no longer depend on the segment leading into the pump to be full in order to apply head lift to the pipes afterwards

[true junco]

Ah. Well i usually already had pumps further back that provided all the lift. And the buffers dont reset the headlift because the middle pipe carries the previous lift level past the buffers.

[oblique hollow]

thats only partially true

due to the whole feedback loop thing

the pipes can feel that there is capacity that they can fill: the buffer

so anything that needs headlift ultimately depends on the buffer

unless you have a pump on the exit side

[delicate chasm]

The head lift IS reset on the segments in front of the buffer and the lift direction (if it became applicable) would be from in front of the buffers, not through them. A junction in the middle of the segment connected to the output side of the buffer would receive lift from the path that travels around the buffers and would fill only from those lines

unless it fills up to 8m from the buffer side.

[true junco]

Ah. The empty portion of the buffer acts like a lower u fulled pipe. You have the lift but it doesnt kick in until the buffer is filled. Something like that?

[delicate chasm]

Uhhhhhh... I'll defer to McGalleon here but my understanding is that it is exactly like a pipe segment which is 8m instead of 1.3m (1.2?) tall. If it's filled to the top, it applies up to 8m of lift beyond it like a pipe segment that rises up to that level then goes horizontal again.

[true junco]

Well. We are talking about things ive built from his manual. So...

[delicate chasm]

I'll be doing a buttload of tests later though and will @ you if I find anything neat (if you like).

[abstract thorn]

hey guys how can i zipline sprint?

[zinc crater]

Hold shift.

[abstract thorn]

it doesnt work for me for some reason

[true junco]

We are refering to the flow devices from the manual that have a bypass pipe that is parallel to the buffer.

[true junco]

Does this not work if you have the "sprint toggle" on?

[zinc crater]

It's not overly fast if you don't also have blade runners equipped. They're what really give the zipline sprint the speed difference.

[zinc crater]

I don't use toggle keybinds for sprint or crouch in games, so no idea.

[abstract thorn]

i have every suit in the game so

yeah i have blade runners but it doesnt run regardless is that a bug?

[delicate chasm]

Yeah, understood. 👍 If McGalleon doesn't contradict it, I'm pretty sure that there will be >8m head lift in a vertical segment beyond the fluid buffer, but that that pipe segment will NOT be fed from the fluid buffer (possibly fed up to 8m, but as head lift does not stack, I do not think it will use the buffer's 8m transference but rather the pump's applied head lift that is traveling around the buffers)

[true junco]

This is the only game ive ever used toggle bind for sprint. 😆

[oblique hollow]

yup. buffers apply proportional head lift

half full buffer means you get half of the height in head lift

6 m for industrial, 4 m for normal

[zinc crater]

You don't run on ziplines lol. You zip on them.

[oblique hollow]

if the buffer is full, any pump head lift is passed on

[abstract thorn]

yeah like u want to move faster with them is all

[oblique hollow]

if a buffer is full, then the pump head lift is used.

[true junco]

Yes. I was getting at when the bypass pipe is present. Then would any lift bypass the buffer. But the empty portion of the buffer would act like a lower empty pipe that needs filled, so it would need to be filled anyways...

[oblique hollow]

it cannot bypass the buffer because the pressure is split between pipe and buffer

and the junctions know that and actively redirects flow

[zinc crater]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Zipline

[abstract thorn]

i see ty guys

[zinc crater]

The speed gain is basically cumulative. The more lines you move along and chain in the path of travel, the faster you start going.
We did tests a few months ago, and a zipline with bladerunners is only just slower max speed than an explorer(90k/h max speed); once you start chaining the speed gain.

[frosty owl]

Item clumps now can easily throw off balancers with full belts leading to a merger handling such clumps. Setups that could once be a 1m belt segment of the correct MK now need several meters of higher MK + correct MK for chocking just to have the buffering necessary to achieve the same result

[cinder silo]

🙂

[frosty owl]

Interested in updates. I've always felt buffers were misunderstood but never bothered enough with pipe-testing to be able to say more than "I feel like..."

[bleak coral]

It would be nice if there was a way to use buffers instead of loops, since loops aren't always convenient to make

[oblique hollow]

the reason loops help is because they move flow away from pipes to other pipes that usually never have as much flow to begin with

the buffer cannot do this. it just fills up and then shoots a bunch of fluid through a pipe that usually already has a lot flowing through it

what you can do is incorporate the buffer into the loop pipe

that turns the loop into a giant, complex Equalizer. It may not actually behave like an equalizer, but conceptually....

[bleak coral]

But is it more useful than a plain loop?

[wind spade]

I think loop may not be needed with top feeding 🤔 or maybe I misremember

[oblique hollow]

hard to say

I used that system a few times for aluminum water

just for a bit of safety

[bleak coral]

I've gotten away with no loops in my recent run with: below feed at 240/m, 3:8 coal fed both ends and in the middle, and a fuel setup fed with 96/m fuel

Not sure if that means anything besides low flow is more stable, and double feed does the same thing as loops anyway

[abstract thorn]

hey yall i got these after scanning in the mam but i dont really know which one i should take since i dont need any of them that much

not sure what to choose

[bleak coral]

Steel screw is nice for direct machine to machine screws, don't know use cases for the other two

[wind spade]

pick one at random then and move on 🤷‍♂️
all recipes are situational and if you don't need any, you just pick one of them at random 🙂 you can get all recipes anyway

[abstract thorn]

but i have enough screw going everywhere xD

[abstract thorn]

yeah was just thinking on which i am going with since i have enough from all of them

hey guys i got another question the scannable drivers that u scan for alt recipe are they random or each recipe in different drivers?

[lusty summit]

how do you cope with wasting time on choosing best/optimal resource node while planning your next factory?

in terms of which one to pick

i realised i waste hours while trying to decide on that

[wind spade]

when you scan a drive, you'll get random recipes from a pool of unlocked ones (each alt recipe has to be unlocked to be in the pool, usually together with the base recipe)

[bleak coral]

I don't really think about it tbh, I choose a location that both has the variety of resourcea I need and that I think will be fun to build in, then pull from the most pure and closest first then less pure and further away next as needed, favoring distance over purity unless they're basically in the same location

Choosing the specifically best node doesn't matter as much as just having access to the amount of throughput and variety of resources you need

[abstract thorn]

i see so everything is random which means my luck is bad thank u lol

[bleak coral]

You can cheese it by reloading before you started scanning the drive to reroll it, but then you have to wait 10 minutes again so it's not worth it over just getting another drive with one less recipe in the pool

[abstract thorn]

this is a good idea actually thank u

[wind spade]

at that point I'd rather go find another drive than waste 10 minutes

[bleak coral]

Yeah I wad saying it's a bad idea lol

Just pointing out it's possible

[abstract thorn]

yeah true

[bleak coral]

I find scanning while hard drive hunting is fast enough, maybe put on a podcast to pass the time while you do it

I usually only have 1-3 left to scan by the time I make it back to base

[abstract thorn]

yeah i was thinking of doing that i think i used to do that before but i just skipped it and i would rather finish my unfinished project

[delicate chasm]

Good times to go hard drive hunting are once you set up copper ore -> cable and iron ore -> reinforced iron plate with 400 units of solid biofuel in your HUB burners and then again as soon as you finish your first 120/min (or 240/270 if you rush Mk3 logistics before setting up coal; I endorse this actually) coal generator array.

You'll also probably unlock oscillators somewhere in between if you give that any priority and the explorer just makes HDD hunting so much more pleasant.

^ In My Opinion ^

[true junco]

Yeah. I have a small stack of HDs. I dont start unlocking again until i realize i need an alt i could get. I need to do another HD hunt as soon as i unlock aluminum. Im sure ill want more than the 2 or 3 i have ready.

[lusty summit]

eventually you will get everything, but if you unlock most of early tier stuff then unlock your next tier, it becomes much easier to get that tiers good recipes

[bleak coral]

Small caveat: it does depend on where you are. Like dune desert has lots of crash sites near it that want motors, while grasslands has pretty accessible crash sites with lower level items

[lusty summit]

that's the only good side of grasslands tbh, setting up a good logistics is pita there

oh and the looks

[bleak coral]

Also for new players it has some good ground for building without foundations, but so does rocky desert

[true junco]

I like GF becaus its good enough for the early stuff but leaves better areas untampered with for later on.

[fading urchin]

What is the non-alt recipe for this??

[rigid turtle]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Non-fissile_Uranium

[fading urchin]

my goal is to not have to take in additional raw uranium, is that possible when making encased plut cells? Sorry I'm just not understanding what the wiki link means because I have Non fissile selected in the calculator but when I remove Fertile Uranium it says it can't calculate

oic

[bleak coral]

You're asking for too many rods then for the waste you have

Use max, note the number, then switch back to per minute

[frosty owl]

FYI: You can sink Uranium and all following products up to Fuel Rods

[vapid gorge]

Exactly - we don’t notice 😉

[prisma kraken]

if you're goal is to dispose of the waste, you want the default pfr chain of plutonium pellet + encased plut cell + PFR. you can yield a few more PFR's with the instant PFR recipe at the expense of bauxite, the choice in that is whether bauxite or coupons are more valuable to you

[fair oriole]

is my math wrong, 10 plastic 10 rubber, 600 crude input, creates 400 heavy reside

400 residue i can make a bit more than 264 fuel (400/60x40=266.6667), which runs 22 fuel gens at 12/min (400/60x40/12=22.2222), had to change to x instead of *

sorry, 10 refineries making plastic, 10 making rubber

20 total x 20 heavy residue/min = 400 heavy residue

my power is fluctuating

(7 refineries making fuel 60 HOR to 40 fuel, last one runs at about 2/3rds capacity)

6 fuel gens are not running

[delicate chasm]

Plastic makes half the HOR that rubber does, so you only have 300 iirc.

Should be 10 and 20?

[fair oriole]

Oh i must have misread that

good catch

so it should be 16 fuel gens

which is what i see fully running

300/60x40 is 200 hor, which runs 16 fuel gens, with .667 extra, so just petroleum coke the rest, and 4.8 refineries are needed to make the fuel

for 16 fuel gens

(1 packaged fuel maker to soak extra till it's ful, then coupons)

ok, let's say i have every fuel recipe including turbo and alts, what's the best power (pre nuclear). in a previous i did alt turbo fuel, and was told that it was a waste of sulfur

i'm on tier 7/8

[delicate chasm]

Turbo fuel is superior to fuel but simply HOR -> diluted fuel (blender) -> fuel gens feels very powerful (pun intended). Math aside, a meta answer would be: if you want the turbo fuel for the logistics challenge and to have Done It™️ - GREAT! Otherwise just dilute until you can radically pollute. :)

[whole heron]

It doesn't take that much crude to produce a lot of power, basically.

And most of the construction for either fuel type is generators, not the processing portion.

You need to make a generator for every 150 MW regardless.

[true junco]

Using Heavy oil residue and diluted fuel you can gross 10GW for every 300 crude oil.

if you want to squeeze any more power out of oil then that, you will need to make turbofuel AFTER the HOR+DF combo, which will require sulfur and possibly coal depending on which version.

[noble timber]

20GW if you use turbo (normal recipe) as well 😉

[muted tide]

what is the most efficient way to sink a ton of tickets

[wind spade]

Sink... tickets?

Just put them into sink I guess

[muted tide]

sink stuff to gain tickets....

[wind spade]

Then depends on what do you mean by "efficient"

[muted tide]

what is a resource to sink that is worth creating for the only purpose to sink

[wind spade]

Any resource

The only reason you produce things in this game is either for personal storage (with overflow to sink) or for sink directly

[muted tide]

yea okay but you not gonna setup an iron plate farm just to sink it since it gives you almost no points

its not worth the power and effort

[wind spade]

"Worth" depends on you

[muted tide]

okay let me rephrase it, what do other people use to get alot of tickets

[wind spade]

Again, pretty much anything

Like the only thing I can do is point you to wiki to check how much points you get from which resource

And then you have to decide what you want to make

More advanced items give more sink points but also have more complex production lines

Also depends on what resources you have available, which recipes, what tier you are, etc.

[deft lichen]

Overflow

Pretty much all manufacturer parts get overflown to the sink

I don't specifically make parts to sink

[muted tide]

yea thing i got with that is like almost everything i build i calculate to not have overflow xD

[deft lichen]

Storage overflow

[muted tide]

only overflow i got is when i have a byproduct i dont use

yea storage overflow would be the only thing but i dont have much of that

[oblique hollow]

Generally: the more high tech the product, the more points

you just gotta find one you are comfortable building and sinking a lot of

One generally cheap yet decent recipe/item i know are Silicon Circuit boards

Much better point value than you would get for either silica or copper sheets, and also decently fast

But that wont last long until the points per coupon increases a lot

[abstract thorn]

what is the difference between the fuel rod and the plut rod?

[median heath]

Which fuel rod?

Plutonium Fuel Rod or Uranium Fuel Rod?

[frosty owl]

Ingredients/production process and burning time/energy content

[oblique hollow]

One rod is made from the waste of the other rod

[abstract thorn]

both

what is the difference between them

[median heath]

Burn time (which in turn means "how much power they produce") and what type of waste is generated as byproduct for burning them.

Uranium Waste can be recycled. Plutonium Waste is permanent.

[abstract thorn]

i see

[wind spade]

technically not burn time, but energy value 😛

[frosty owl]

Isn't it lovely to feel ignored

[median heath]

Literally burn time.

[median heath]

If you read this you're ignored 😉

[wind spade]

burn time depends on energy value and machine speed 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Is the energy value what is assigned to it in-game and the times are derived from that?
Or is the burn time assigned to it and energy is derived?

[wind spade]

items have energy value, burn time is derived by game

[median heath]

😮
Learn something new every day.

[wind spade]

(would be problematic the other way - what if you can burn it in different places?)

e.g. tractor + truck + biomass burner (different burn time in each)

[frosty owl]

As you can

There is not one kind of fuel that can be used exclusively with one machine

[median heath]

Same concept as clock speeds.
Set your base time for like... Tractor.
Then say Explorer is Tractor @ 125% or whatever.

[wind spade]

fair, but then it just gets super complicated compared to simple "item has energy value, building has power production"

[median heath]

Both methods have merit.
Nice to know how it works though.

[analog valve]

I think they briefly thought about making burn time and machine speed be nonlinear with a previous update. It was a bad idea and would have disrupted this clean behavior

[wind spade]

I actually liked it, burning fuel fast should be less efficient

[frosty owl]

Power generators' clock speed (thus production speed/fuel consumption etc...) used to scale non-linearly prior to U5(?)

[wind spade]

200% clocked gen would use e.g. 210% fuel to produce 200% power

[frosty owl]

Oh wait, they actually considered breaking the fuel-value/power-extracted ratio? :O

[wind spade]

idk if they considered it but it was something I was suggesting for a long time

[frosty owl]

Harsh on OC

[wind spade]

would bring cloking of gens to the same level as clocking of machines, you lose power to gain space

[frosty owl]

That's a fair point. But all the work to make power easier (including its clocking) would go down the drain ahah

[wind spade]

majority of the problem was the broken UI that didn't tell people what is actually happening

[cinder silo]

If they did that I'd have to retune 100 nuclear reactors (again!) , the goal was to use 105% fuel to keep the 1-100 load balancer working, not get 5% more power.

[frosty owl]

I wouldn't call it a majority of the problem, as it still hides exact values behind rounding, but it certainly was a big (and annoying) factor

[wind spade]

clocking of machines is fine even with non-linear, because UI says what you get

so people are aware (well, at least those that look at UI)

[cinder silo]

In the case of power it kind of lied, I had to do 106.5% to get the 105% I actually wanted before.

[nova crag]

dick

[whole heron]

Anyone know enough about the game physics to tell me if two staggered 45 degree turns are better or worse than one 90 degree turn? I know from a practical standpoint the former is probably better since you cut the corner, but I'm still curious.

[oblique hollow]

....for?

vehicles?

[whole heron]

Sorry, trains.

[oblique hollow]

45° turns vs 90° turns only makes a difference if the radius is bigger for the 45° one

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Weights_and_forces

i guess the only benefit is that its a "technically" bigger curve

so you spend less time on a curved segment

but you should make the 45° curve bigger than the 90° one to get the full effect

[abstract thorn]

hey guys how many fuel gens i should use at least ? is 10 enough?

or i should add 20 at least?

[wind spade]

that depends on how much power you want

[tropic hawk]

define should. whats your use case?

[abstract thorn]

okay so i have 3 bases okay and one with the fuel gens has 2000 mw but its not enough

[abstract thorn]

i want anything just to keep stuff running

[tropic hawk]

well then how much oil do you have to spare and what recipes do you have?

[abstract thorn]

i have the best recipe to use for the fuel

[wind spade]

which is... ?

(because there's no best)

[abstract thorn]

yeah i know

[tropic hawk]

do you also have HOR?

[abstract thorn]

but for me this is the best i can offer since it gives 100 per min

[abstract thorn]

hor?

[tropic hawk]

Heavy Oil Residue

[tropic hawk]

!wikisearch acronyms

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=acronyms

[abstract thorn]

yeah i use it for rubber and plastic

[tropic hawk]

let me clarify: Do you have the HOR alt recipe that produces HOR primarily and P. Resin as a by product?

[abstract thorn]

yeah

[tropic hawk]

that crossed with DF is arguably the best chain to fuel.

Next question, do you have any spare sulfur?

[abstract thorn]

i have tons of it why?

[tropic hawk]

let me clarify: any spare nodes

[abstract thorn]

for the sulfur? yeah

[tropic hawk]

do you plan on using them in the forseeable future for this save?

[abstract thorn]

i use mk 3 miner with mk5 belt with fuel fuses

[abstract thorn]

i guess but not really

[tropic hawk]

do you plan on doing Nuclear power at all?

[abstract thorn]

i have one already lol

[tropic hawk]

you are asking about fuel infrastructure but you already have nuclear? why don't you expand your nuclear facility?

[abstract thorn]

i mean i am doing that but no space plus the stuff needed to make the fuel rods

and above all of that i have alot of waste

[tropic hawk]

its not that its a bad idea, its like asking how to cut down a tree with an ax when you have a chainsaw.

[tropic hawk]

first off, unlock plutonium processing ASAP, then sink the rods to dispose of the waste.

[abstract thorn]

yeah i know i just if i put the 2 factory together the power wont hold that much

[abstract thorn]

its unlocked

[tropic hawk]

mind sending an image of the save on SCIM so I can see what you are working with?

[abstract thorn]

how do i do that?

i can just send u a pic of each factory for the power

its a mess so i hope u understand something lol

okay side of the factory at least

[oblique hollow]

you can hide those funny grid lines by pressing the mouse wheel

[abstract thorn]

ah sorry i didnt know

this is a better one

[oblique hollow]

tbh you have lots of wasted space here

[tropic hawk]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map go to the right side where it says to click/drop save, put your save file in it, and then take a screenshot of the new map

[abstract thorn]

i guess

[wind spade]

good thing space is pretty much infinite

[abstract thorn]

how do i do that? i didnt get it sorry

[tropic hawk]

If you have all the alts unlocked (which it sounds like you do) and you make a factory for producing Plutonium rods, and you run the final building at 100% clockspeed, which is 0.5 Plutonium rods/minute, (consuming 18.75 UrWaste/min) the excess power from the chain would be 3.219 GW, or 3219 MW, which is quite a lot of power, and that scales, so if you were doing 10 Plut Rods/min, it would be producing 64.38 GW of power

[tropic hawk]

go to the link i posted. on the right side of the screen there is an area listed as "CLICK/DROP YOUR SAVE HERE". When you mouse over it, it shows you the directory to the game saves you have. when you click on it you will get a file explorer pop up, and follow it to the saves, pick the latest save, then click open. this makes the map display your save and all your buildings in it

[abstract thorn]

okay i did it

but it doesnt show everything i have

should i send u the link?

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#3.25;11135;-92749|realisticLayer|limestoneNormal;ironNormal;copperNormal;cateriumNormal;coalNormal;oilNormal;sulfurNormal;bauxiteNormal;quartzNormal;uraniumNormal;samNormal;nitrogenGasWellNormal;oilWellNormal;waterWellNormal;geyserNormal

here @tropic hawk

[wind spade]

that just shows the map, without your save 😛

[abstract thorn]

hmmm.... weird sorry

[wind spade]

use the screenshot

[deft lichen]

you cannot share the uploaded save in SCIM without sharing the file (don't upload it here per #rules though)

[abstract thorn]

this is how it looks like to me lol

this is like the whole thing

[tropic hawk]

well, I found your problem. If it is space you need, expand north until you hit the coast. should should have around 1.5 km until you hit the world border to play with and it gets you all the space you could ever need, and if you expand west, thats another 2 km. plenty of space to work with

[abstract thorn]

its just cliff so many of them and i dont know how to duel with it

[tropic hawk]

Keep going past the cliffs, there is a vast ocean for you to build over

[abstract thorn]

okay i will do that thank u

[queen rivet]

Or go up above all the terrain.

[wheat saddle]

ok so um... as one is moving from tier 5&6-7&8 how much "basic resources" as ppm should I be cpm?
(parts per minute = ppm, crafting per min cpm)

like basic up to steel

[median heath]

You are the only one who can make that decision.

[wheat saddle]

what were yall makin at that stage?

say.. of reinforced plate

[bleak coral]

like how much should you be handcrafting going from T5/6 to T7/8?

ideally you shouldn't be handcrafting anything by T7/8 except maybe ammo or some parts you use very sparingly like stators
anything you're making too slowly of to keep up with building demands, increase the ppm until you can go to your storage and not worry about it being empty

can't really give a number because everyone builds differently

[whole heron]

Stators go into motors and control rods, you should definitely automate those.

[bleak coral]

yeah but you're not gonna store them

I mean I do, but you don't really have to

[whole heron]

You might since they're used for Power Storage.

[bleak coral]

it was just an example

[whole heron]

I know, it just wasn't a good example.

[loud pine]

considering the only building you can make with them is power storage I don't think it's worth automating stators by themselves

I still handcraft stators at t7/8

[bleak coral]

it's a part that's used sparingly, it fit my example

it's not that deep

[whole heron]

I don't know what the initial question is. I'm pretty drowsy.

[wheat saddle]

plates and rods

[whole heron]

Do you have an ISC of each? Do you think you'll actually use an ISC worth by the time your next building project is done?

I honestly wouldn't worry about those.

[wheat saddle]

what is an isc? and idk my nexrt build project

internal storage container?

[bleak coral]

industrial storage container

[wheat saddle]

ah

[median heath]

RIPs - 100/min specifically just for storage, not including RIPs used for other lines.

Plates/Rods - 200/min of each specifically just for storage, not including Plates/Rods used for other lines.

[prisma kraken]

that's a lot of production of parts that aren't used much

[delicate chasm]

Constructors, splitters, mergers...yeah they're used quite a lot.

Going in to phase 4, I had going to storage per minute: 30 iron rods, 40 iron plates, 20 RIPs, 10 modular frame, 10 heavy modular frame, 40 steel beam, 35 steel pipe, and 20(30[35]) encased beams. My overflow for steel beams and pipes connected to the overflow for my concrete and made extra EIBs and sank the concrete left over from that, along with all overflow EIBs themselves of course.

I thought that was rather clever, personally.

'cause why not get more SINK points if you have extra energy, amirite?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i do the same in places

generally though, the way my world is structured is that my factories funnel through central storage on the way to the production of space elevator parts, and those eat the excess on the way to the sink

there's of course parts like concrete not used directly in space elevator stuff

but i'll do stuff like suck up quickwire and sheet to make ai limiters

[delicate chasm]

Yeah. Limestone is onsite almost everywhere I build.

[prisma kraken]

anyway, getting back to the original idea... i'm making exactly 40 rips/min into storage, because that's how many are needed for 80 smart plate/min

internally to factories, of course i'm making loads of rips, but they're all going to h/mf's or to a tiny iron-only oscillator factory

i also have an iron goods bp that i've dropped a few places around the world that just deposits something into a local mini-storage-mall

[bleak coral]

iron only oscillator?

[prisma kraken]

it kicks out < 10/min of the basic iron goods

well, iron+quartz

[bleak coral]

oh ok, I was wondering how I missed a recipe to subsitute iron for quartz lol

[prisma kraken]

you use iron wire + stitched plate and you can make oscillators with just iron and quartz

its not very high yield, but for a motor plant, it doesn't need to be

i just have that bp'd as factory-in-a-box

[bleak coral]

seems straightforward

related, ever tried to use insulated oscillators?

they've never appealed to me cause it's already a pita part, why complicate it further?

[prisma kraken]

it is much higher yield per raw quartz

[bleak coral]

true, but quartz isn't doing too much so 🤷

[prisma kraken]

and a bit denser

[bleak coral]

like it's footprint is denser? cause adding rubber and AI limiters surely undoes any gains at the oscillator step

[prisma kraken]

i've accounted for most of the quartz in the world... i need about 300 oscillators & 240 HSC's

if you aren't trying to build as big as i am, i think the normal oscillator recipe is a bit better than the insulated one

the reason for that is that there's a lot more choice in what recipes you use for rips & cable than there is with ai limiters & rubber

[bleak coral]

meh I don't mind building bigger, not like gigantic but I tend to hit power limits even without much overclocking

like I'll see people get into T7 on <5GW and I don't get it lol

[prisma kraken]

the normal recipe will get you 120 oscillators from the 6 normal quartz nodes in titan forest

which is probably enough for most people's goals

[bleak coral]

that's a lot of oscillators

[prisma kraken]

120/min is ALOT of oscillators

[bleak coral]

oh shoot just saw large signs take oscillators, they gotta stop making more buildables use obscure products, I'm trying to keep my storage space down lol

first stators and now this

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're used for the signs, radio towers and vehicles

not much else though

[bleak coral]

I can get away with handmaking for explorers and radio towers though, unless I'm using explorers for deliveries

oh well, just having a trickle in will be fine

[prisma kraken]

except of course other components

oscillators are really invaluable in producing motors and computers

the alt recipes that take oscillators are amazing

and they're also necessary for maxing nuclear

i'll toss another little asterisks and say they're almost required for RCU's

...techically you can make rcu's from the alt that takes plain crystal, but its pretty costly to do that

[robust vessel]

can someone give me the tl;dr: on U7 overclocking changes?

If I had a fuel plant creating X amount of turbofuel for X generators and X GW, will I need to refactor everything?

[prisma kraken]

overclocking of generators did change with update7

it didn't change consumption per gw, just changed how the clocking scale was labeled (with one exception, i'll explain in a second).... if you had been in u6 overclocking or underclocking generators, you probably should examine them to see that they're generating and consuming what you designed things to generate and consume

if there's a discrepancy there, all you should need to do is change the clock setting

[robust vessel]

ah ok, so I am probably creating enough fuel, but I may need to adjust my generators as to which ones are OC/d?

[prisma kraken]

the ONE exception to this is that nuke reactors now take less water

[robust vessel]

just doing a turbofuel plant atm

420 generators generating 69 GW

[prisma kraken]

which is only an issue if you're feeding them wastewater from another factory

you should be fine, but probaly should double check things

[robust vessel]

Ok so if I'm generating 69 GW from turbofuel I'll need 2070/min turbofuel, yeah? Did I math that right?

[tropic hawk]

that sounds about right

[oblique hollow]

460 Fuel generators....
Just go nuclear

420 generators take 1890 turbofuel

[cinder silo]

I went a little far when I built 888 then (and did nuclear after)

[heavy mountain]

I've always used stators for motor factories, is the E.Rod recipe better?

[median heath]

Both Motor alts give you "more".
It's up to you to decide if A: You need/want more, and B: Oscillators vs. ECRs.

[heavy mountain]

Thanks for that

Not sure what's meta anymore or if anything has changed since experimental 6

[median heath]

Meta is always "every recipe has trade offs and what is best will be subjective to what the individual cares about"

[heavy mountain]

Makes sense. I usually aim for recipes that reduce footprint of factories.

[median heath]

Space-saving recipes almost always have the trade of increased cost.

And vice-versa.

[frosty owl]

There's different metas for different production objectives.
Example: for a "maximum motors" factory plan, the meta likely uses the Crystal motor alt; for a "max turbomotors" plan, the meta likely uses the standard motor recipe

[median heath]

If you aren't going for MAX of anything though, meta is an extremely loose, subjective term.

[heavy mountain]

There used to be a list that weighted recipies on reddit in terms of raw resources, production footprint, and overall value.

It's on the sidebar but It looks different. Not sure if it's the same one or updated.

I honestly have to take a look at alts and plan accordingly. I started in the northern forest and trying to figure out a spot for an HMF factory.

[median heath]

Every list on reddit is subjective.

And the most commonly cited one is complete horseshit of "objective analysis"

[heavy mountain]

I figured as much, that's why it doesn't look familiar to me. This was a few years ago at minimum

Well maybe not that much

[median heath]

Whole lotta "read the trade offs and decide what is best for you" is the only real recommendation.

[heavy mountain]

I just feel like recipes that use caterium are strenuous due to limited amounts plus copper being needed for end game Cu powder. Like I said have to sit down and do the math

[median heath]

Limited amounts?

[heavy mountain]

Like a world cap

[median heath]

Ct is the one resource I'm absolutely swimming in.

[heavy mountain]

Did they add more nodes?

Or am I just delusional

[median heath]

Option B.

What are you spending it on?

[heavy mountain]

Caterium computers

[median heath]

How many?

[heavy mountain]

End product? Was aiming for 20-25/min somewhere around the ballpark. Probably need more. It's early enough I can retool for Crystal computers

[median heath]

Ok you're spending it somewhere else then.

Because using Crystal Comp + Cat CB and making 270 Comps/min I'm still swimming in Caterium.

[heavy mountain]

I should stop listening to redditors tbh

[median heath]

To the point I looked at Quickwire Stator like "yeah, I could use that for a couple hundred of those."

[vapid gorge]

yeah stay away from SF reddit

[median heath]

The only people who have Caterium issues are people who are fully automating Project Parts on a massive scale.

[heavy mountain]

I've always ignored cat stators

[delicate chasm]

Take what you learn here with a grain of salt too, but if gun to head have to listen to somebody, listen to somebody on the Discord over Reddit 100%.

[median heath]

They have a decent tradeoff.

[heavy mountain]

Thank you

[median heath]

What if the gun is loaded with salt pellets? 😉

[vapid gorge]

many cat computers , v little cat ore https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=lwmbgukRmeDuSvDn7L7I

[median heath]

Cat Comp + EleCB is a highly underrated combo imo.

[frosty owl]

What's the reasoning?

[delicate chasm]

This is realtime and BS gets called out instantaneously, particularly in this channel.

It's also filled to the brim with people who are alt-tabbing back and forth from in-game to right here and testing stuff as they go. It works out to being more reliable IMO. 👍

[frosty owl]

Agreed

[heavy mountain]

Well, I do appreciate everyone's help. Thank you

[floral burrow]

Is it better to build a factory for every items to have or just place some storage container and just get from that?

[median heath]

Better is subjective.

[delicate chasm]

🤓 ACTUALLY...

Better is relative.
Best is subjective. 🤓

[floral burrow]

I am kinda new in the game

[vapid gorge]

Early on? I personally prefer to just link a bunch of production lines together and make a bit of everything

[floral burrow]

tier 4 about to finish it

[median heath]

Which even moreso makes it subjective.
Find what works for you.
Build what works for you.
Build your factory, not someone else's.

[floral burrow]

and on the MAM I unlocked a lot of stuff

[wind spade]

🤔 at least the things I posted on Reddit were high quality

[vapid gorge]

by 'early' I mean like before unlocking nuclear 😄

[floral burrow]

bruh wth

[vapid gorge]

Best tip? dw about early on. Just link \stuff together , figure stuff out

[floral burrow]

what tier is nuclear?

[vapid gorge]

7

[delicate chasm]

8th and final tier.

[floral burrow]

ok good

[median heath]

T7-8

[delicate chasm]

Wait it's 7? o_O Which thing opens in 7 not 8 for nuclear?

[median heath]

You never unlock 1 singular tier.

You're never in T7.
You're in T5-6, then you're in T7-8.

[floral burrow]

on what tier is plastic?

[deft lichen]

5

[median heath]

T5-6

[floral burrow]

ok k

[delicate chasm]

Ahh, Hazmat Suit is tier 7, and that is nuclear related. 👍 Carry on.

[floral burrow]

xD

[deft lichen]

you could say you're in a single tier if you do the milestones in order, or just don't unlock milestones from the next

that could never be me, I do oil processing->industrial manufacturing->monorail train technology

[vapid gorge]

and no matte rwhat we say you're basically guaranteed to not like what you build the first few times anyway and have to figure out what YOU like.

So don't stress

but you learn with every try you make what works for you

[floral burrow]

ok k

ama build the basic

than place everything there

[vapid gorge]

and depending on what you like about the game and what you want from it you might restart fresh maps a few times. I know I did

[floral burrow]

xD

[vapid gorge]

Oh - and then building very LARGE factories with multiple systems in one spot is another beast all together - you'll probably hate your first and learn from it

[wind spade]

but also, don't restart unless you really want to.
you can dismantle everything for full return or just take your hub and move anywhere else on the map

[floral burrow]

just saved my file after 5h

[vapid gorge]

yeah - restarts depend on you - maybe completely fresh start works for you maybe not. Everyone is dif

[floral burrow]

shoul I let the game in the background while I eat?

[vapid gorge]

if you want? if you're pre coal just make sure you're producing items you need next

[wind spade]

again, up to you

but if you need to AFK to gain resources, then you should rather solve the problem - automate more resources so that you don't have to wait that long

because the problem won't go away if you afk now, when you'll need more later, you'll be again in the same situation

same goes for handcrafting - usually it's better to automate the thing, as otherwise you'll be handcrafting for a long time

[delicate chasm]

My advice is to not hand craft more than 3 stacks of anything and that's just solid biofuel.

If you're doing more than 1-2 stacks of something by hand, excepting the very earliest parts of the game where maybe you're stocking up some cable or something, it really behooves you to make a production chain and spend YOUR crafting time powering those chains, until you can automate your power production too.

It's not the only way to do early game by any means but it's the way I like to do it and would recommend to a new player to try. 👍

[floral burrow]

coal...

I already have it

[robust vessel]

420 generators, 40 of them will be overclocked to 200%

5 levels of 84 generators each

I have it all built, I just have to finish plumbing it. Started in U6 and haven't gone back to finish it yet

[median heath]

Overclock all of them and build less

[robust vessel]

Nah, 420x69 for memes

also ~80 power shards for generators is about my budget

[median heath]

Supplied via Cybertruck?

[robust vessel]

another ~110 on the production buildings makes for almost 200 shards in the build, which is probably enough

[robust vessel]

lol that'll be the nuke plant maybe

[lilac heath]

How can I see this map in my game?

[robust vessel]

satisfactory interactive map, it's a 3rd party tool

[lilac heath]

oh ok tnx mate

[vapid gorge]

it's a good tool - but I wouldn't use it unless you don't care about exploration spoilers

[robust vessel]

It's a power user feature for sure. Not something to mess with until you've played through the game at least once IMO

But I've been playing since beta weekend, so... 😅

[vapid gorge]

yeah I think I probably ran across the whole map at least 2-3 times before I started using it. After that there was really not much to spoil

[robust vessel]

It does preserve your fog of war if you upload your save, though, which is nice if you don't want to be spoiled on your current play

[wind spade]

@broken latch maxed sink points + 100 GW extra for transportation, lights, etc.

[main dirge]

Is sinking the plutonium rods not preferable?

[bleak coral]

in general or specifically for max points?

in general: waste isn't that big of deal and it gives some extra power, but it's player preference whether want to deal with waste and most won't run into a situation where they're forced to take the power vs just getting more uranium rods

for max points: you need the power, and they're not worth as much as spending the raw resources on more ADS and TPR

[burnt plinth]

Will 15000MW from my plastic/rubber/diluted fuel plant (plus 8000MWh in battery capacity )last till I build nuclear?

[bleak coral]

Depends on how big you build, it is quite a lot of power for oil

[wind spade]

also batteries don't give MW, but MWh

[bleak coral]

That is quite a lot of rubber and plastic, and if you build that big regularly it might not last that long

[burnt plinth]

I never got past aluminum. This is my first time having the hover pack in my inventory. But my final goat will be the full utilisation of every resource node on the map.

[bleak coral]

we'll see if your computer survives your ambition haha

[burnt plinth]

I have a pretty good computer so I think I'll be fine. (I don't know tho)

I never checked out a 2500 hour factory with my specks.

[bleak coral]

it's mostly a joke, cause at a point it's more about the game than your computer

[burnt plinth]

I would say that lack of motivation kills my playthroughs. That's why my save file has 80 hours and my playtime is 200.

[bleak coral]

I think my longest save was 300+ hours, but I got burned out trying to make a really big factory

[mossy crest]

How do you get sink points to show on your calculator @wind spade ?

[nocturne seal]

Seems like me lol I have 230 hours in satisfactory still never got elevator phase 3 done

[jagged warren]

i just finished sep2 for the first time at 240ish hours

[nocturne seal]

whats sep

[vapid gorge]

prob phase 2?

[jagged warren]

space elevator phase 2 = sep2

[vapid gorge]

yeah I thought that was a typo for 'step' xD

[jagged warren]

nah lol

[nocturne seal]

wait, you never experienced petrol in 240 hours ?

[jagged warren]

no

[nocturne seal]

You should try its really cool

[jagged warren]

i just unlocked it, found a cool place with crude oil and then went to bed (where im at rn)

i have had a jetpack tho

[nocturne seal]

jetrog ?

[jagged warren]

yes

[nocturne seal]

I never found one

[jagged warren]

i found 2

[nocturne seal]

in 1 world ?

[jagged warren]

2

[vapid gorge]

it's a 1/1000 chance for certain hog type to spawn as johnny afaik, so you can have many in 1 world

[jagged warren]

^

[nocturne seal]

So they can spawn anywhere ?

[jagged warren]

yes

[nocturne seal]

bruh

[vapid gorge]

I think anywhere Bigger hogs can

don't think the small ones can

[nocturne seal]

only big hogs can be ?

[jagged warren]

no

theyre small

[nocturne seal]

I mean only big hogs have the chance to be ?

maybe they turn small

[vapid gorge]

I thought so?

[jagged warren]

no

[nocturne seal]

who knows

[jagged warren]

pretty sure big hogs dont spawn on either spots i found them

[vapid gorge]

ah apparently it's both small and alpha

[jagged warren]

actually on 1 they do, the other idk ive been there once

[vapid gorge]

@mossy crest this is prob a better place to talk about it

So you have 8x mk5 belts full and need to feed 255 constructors?

[mossy crest]

Yes, here's some screenshots so you can visualize it.

[mossy crest]

I have 25 input MANIFOLDS

[vapid gorge]

and how many in each manifold?

how many machines*

[mossy crest]

Well this particular set has just 3 deep, so 75.

But I have 180 other constructors around it with inputs and outputs already built.

[vapid gorge]

Sorry what you're saying is a bit confusing so let me jsut clear it up a bit

How many individual sets of manifolds do you have? it sounds like 25 sets?
How many machines are in each set of manifolds?

[mossy crest]

My apologies. I have 8 Mk.5 belts (seen in second screenshot) that need to fit into 25 manifolds (each three deep, first screenshot, top level)

#screenshots message

[vapid gorge]

sure - a manifold is a set of machines though - what is the number of machines in a set?

[mossy crest]

I linked the wrong screenshot before.

[mossy crest]

Only 3.

[vapid gorge]

oh that's very small.

[mossy crest]

Yeah, I had a certain area to work with.

[vapid gorge]

so let me restate things

you have 8x mk5 belts that need to feed 25x3 machines?

[mossy crest]

Exactly.

[vapid gorge]

ok and you have them grouped in 3 because they are precisely feeding something else after?

[mossy crest]

Mainly because it was a blueprint so saved me a lot of effort. But also because I didn't have space to stack them more.

[vapid gorge]

are they making screws or something?

[mossy crest]

I coulda made rows of 6, but then it would've been 12.5 uneven manifolds.

[mossy crest]

Cable for Automated Wiring.

Taking 4500wire/m. ( have 900/m extra on the belts for Stators)

Outputting 2250 cable/m

[vapid gorge]

one sec

[mossy crest]

Just occured to me that I have 900/m extra on those belts for Stators.

Sorry.

[vapid gorge]

So I'm a little puzzled - 1x mk5 belt of wire can feed 13 constructors for cable?

[mossy crest]

Yes, with a little extra even. ( I think?)

[vapid gorge]

uuhh should be exact

cable takes 60pm

780/60 = 13

ok so my suggestion which is probably your simplest option?

[mossy crest]

Yes please, I'm struggling to wrap my head around this, sorry.

[vapid gorge]

feed 1 belt of wire to 12 constructors ( 4 sets of 3 ) , over clock 1 machine to 200%

[mossy crest]

I might be able to do that, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

Honestly this is one of hte reasons I don't like blueprints. It locks people into ways of thought and planning

[mossy crest]

Now I have to figure out how to evenly split off 900m wire for Stators though, ugh.

[vapid gorge]

where is the 900 coming from?

[mossy crest]

I think manually placing 225 constructors woulda been worse lol.

[mossy crest]

It's on the same 8 Mk5 belts.

[vapid gorge]

well you could set up the blueprints and leave space to connect them to be a bit more modular I guess?

[vapid gorge]

so basically what you're saying is that 1 of your 8 mk5 belts of wire + some of another is excess?

[mossy crest]

Yup.

[vapid gorge]

ok lets say your 7th mk5 belt has extra on it. Connect it to a set of constructors that use 660 wire (so 11 machines or change the clocking as needed) the manifold will carry the rest to the stators along with the 8th belt

confused?

There's a few other ways you can do it pretty simply

I've gotten weird hiccups though and this I've found is the most reliable

[mossy crest]

I think that probably sounds best. Just trying to visualize where I can put the belts now.

Ty for the help.

[vapid gorge]

no prob! if you want to keep it to sets of 3 the 7th belt can still feed 12 machines - just clock 2 of them to 50%

oh and wire takes forever to balance out. if you can cram a stack of wire into each machine before you turn the thing on

[vapid gorge]

oh and by 'with the 8th belt' I mean alongside, don't try to merge them xD just to be clear

[mossy crest]

Oh this build is taking me many days. I'll be starting the wire and cable well before I get the rest finished. It'll back up completely.

[vapid gorge]

ah fair 😄
What I tend to do is for every section of a big factory I'll set up sinks and do a test run to make sure it's working properly. Letting it back up like that can hide mistakes

but it depends what you want out of the factory 🙂

[mossy crest]

Yeah I was thinking about doing that, but letting it back up on purpose first.

Then when I start the sink if it becomes un-backed-up then I'll know there's an issue.

[vapid gorge]

if it's a fairly complex system you might feel a bit overwhelmed testing the whole thing at once - it'll be harder to find the issue. But still doable

@radiant willow depends what you want to build next!

the wire one can be pretty useful - I tend to not use many iron rods and the oscilator one is solid for later tiers

[radiant willow]

I wanna work on an oil power plant next

[radiant willow]

I don't need the wire one since I already have copper wire automated

I went with the crystal oscillator

[dark star]

i always liked greenies tools the best.. do they still work? how many recipes have changed since U5?

[wind spade]

use the u6 version, U6 and U7 is almost equal

[dark star]

tyty, scolar and a saint you are

ratios on basic recipe frames is a nightmare btw

[fierce ruin]

HMMM

[wind spade]

power production > power storage