math-and-meta

[wind spade]

no, it's not related to mk2 pipe or mk5 belt.

For belts, there was an issue affecting all belts, where belt to belt connections would reduce throughput. That one is fixed

For pipes, there's no issue with stable throughput, the "issue" is that people don't build in a way to make that throughput possible (looping the pipe, not using valves, feeding from above, etc.) Mk2s can reach 600 without issues

[round talon]

Already fix, nice. Thank for info.

[frosty owl]

The issue has been minimized.
Wether that means you won't notice it or not, depends on your own beltwork, precision in design and hardware performance

TLDR: The issue got better, but it's not fixed

[frosty owl]

Belts still show losses at belt-belt connections.

[wind spade]

but very minimal, right?

[frosty owl]

Depends on how you define "very minimal", but definetly not "fixed"

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/902297765038653530/1073644184772296714/image.png

This 👆 for instance were losses recorded by me before U7 (bad game performance) Vs the same setup tested by someone else after U7 on the right (much better game performance)

"0" is not absolute as there's room for error with results smaller than 3

[round talon]

Which better 720m or 750m?

[oblique notch]

Neither. The results recorded after u7 fix for it are statistically insignificant. Literally cannot be measured due to how splitters/overflow works.

And from Ben's report (the dev that fixed it) performance has no effect on it down to 2fps.

Maybe... maaaaybe over hundreds of hours of continuous (ie you don't restart / reload the game) you notice one slipped part. Maybe.

780 is perfectly viable and you will never notice otherwise unless you are deliberately trying to force the system to fail

[wind spade]

if you're really concerned, you can just use the same "trick" that was used before the fix - split the 780 belt into two immediately (one segment belt only)

[round talon]

So less segment, less issue?. What about conveyor lift. Long conveyor lift with one segment would be stable 780m right?

[wind spade]

the issue isn't the belt itself. It's belt to belt connections

[oblique notch]

It's neither actually

[wind spade]

if you have no belt to belt connection on full belts, you have no issues (theoretically)

[round talon]

Vertical factory would be marvelous

[oblique notch]

The issue was that the belts were assigning too much space between items. So if you had a belt that was 10m long and (for example) that fit 10 items on it, the space between items was actually being calculated as like 10.1m

(Total)

So it manifested most often in mk5 belts with many segments because each one would wait just a smidgen to long to move to the next section. The actual belt to belt wasn't thr issue - with a single welded belt of significant length you would have seen a loss as well (though smaller)

[round talon]

Does that affect mk5 conyevor lift too, or just mk5 belt.

[oblique notch]

This has been fixed AND thr optimizations to factoryTick and how often a belt/machine checks to take an item from the previous entity have been clamped for performance reasons so the issue has been reduce d to nothing

[oblique notch]

It doesn't affect anything anymore.

But it was all belts (and lifts are still belts. Their underlying code is no different just their visual)

[round talon]

Now im confusing, you say before it have issue but smaller. Now, it doesn't?

[oblique notch]

Let me make this clear:

there is no throughput loss bug in any even extreme belt configuration (unless you are deliberately designing a situation to force a failure)

For all normal uses, and even many beyond normal, it will never be experienced

[round talon]

So belt from end world to end world would be good right. I hate train.

[oblique notch]

It's a matter of scale, and for anything that is not a deliberate attempt to push the absolute extremes of the system, there is no loss of throughput. At the very very extremes you might see 1ppm "loss" over hundreds of hours

[wind spade]

belt from one end of the map to the another sounds like weird thing to do 🤔

[round talon]

Well, belt is free energy...so

[oblique notch]

Sounds painful to me but to each their own.

[wind spade]

why not build the factory in the place where items are

why move them to the other end of the map

[round talon]

Just for raw item like coal or iron ore. Everything will move to they own factory. Im not going from end to end world, not when i don't have to.

[wind spade]

I'd just build where you have those items

[round talon]

Lynkfox say 780 is good, i will remember that.

[round talon]

Not every nodes will be conveniently at same or nearby location right?

[deft lichen]

sometimes they will

if not, just pick a location so that you don't need to run too many long belts

[wind spade]

well, you should pick the location based on what you need

[round talon]

Im not yet explore on dessert dune. Maybe that will change what i know.

[noble ice]

how much coal/min would i need if i have 32 coal generators?

[round talon]

Pure 2

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Coal_Generator

[deft lichen]

32 * 15 = 480

the wiki page linked above has all the numbers

[noble ice]

ty

[frosty owl]

Why do items pile up in testing setups, if there is no throughput loss?

[oblique notch]

they only do in your own extreme, push the system to its limit testing? And by other, less extreme far more practical tests, they don't at all? Vencam did 16 hours of Miner->Sink and multiple belt segments in between and had 0 back up in the miner? A test that doesn't have the inaccuracies of the smart splitter buffer that you mentioned in yours, causing there to be a segment that cannot be measured Because for all practical purpsoes it does not affect anyone and no, the issue isnt 100% completely never see in absolutely any situation gone, but the situations which one does see it are litterally dozens and dozens of hours of continuous running across systems that are far more complex than anything a normal person would be creating without a machine somewhere in the middle that would effectively reset the issue, and the issue is effectively reset on restart of a game?

[oblique notch]

look. you can disagree with me all you want, but the fact of the matter is that for 99% of people who play this game they will never ever notice it. Please dont confuse them by saying there is a bug when for all practical purposes, the bug is squashed.

your average player here does not need to optimize to sending only 770 or something down a belt because its just not needed for them and only when you get to the extremes of the likes of Sev or yourself does it possibly - in some rare cases - become an issue.

[frosty owl]

That's a poorly structured text... I don't say this to be mean, it's just hard for me to address all the points orderly, so I'll try to split it:

1. The issue shows only in extreme scenarios: the tests were made with a setup where a splitter overflows any item that (for whatever reason) backed up along a belt. The lenght of the belt was variable to account for different scenarios (from 1 to 100 belt segments). What part of it is so "extreme" that makes the testing setup too far from what happens during normal gameplay?
2. "Vencam did..." I am Vencam. Just clarifying that you're talking about the same person
3. I have yet to see results for miner->sink with noticeable amounts of belt segments that don't back up
4. Restarting the game may reset the issue: if a machine lacked an item due to the issue, there's no way to reset that as the production cycle has been delayed and can't be sped up to compensate
5. 99% of people who play the game will never notice: even if I may not agree with the exact number, I never give this info out assuming one will or will not notice. Addressing your last message too, I simply clarify that the precision isn't perfect, adding how this is unlikely to impact their gameplay unless they really like exact numbers and providing exact data on the issue if required. I do not bring this up anytime, but only in cases in which it looks like the user might be looking for "perfection" or they mention the bug themselves (like previously)

On the other hand, simply saying "the bug has been fixed" is, imo, wrong and misleading.
"Pretty much fixed" could probably fit most contexts better

[median heath]

Solely because you name-dropped me:

I am actually on your side of this one.

[oblique notch]

1. By your own words, splitter overflow cannot be measured with under 3 items being thrown so you made an assumption that it might have 3 items in there. You might also remember that Ben said smart splitters operate differently, and are not reliable to indicating the status of the belt item spacing bug

2/3) Apologies, didnt realize you had changed your name. I mis-remembered, it was Taromani then. My mistake. #1006573529183027401 message to be exact. 11 hours, not 16, whoops, but the point still remains. And that 1 in the buffer in that link? That's not definitive a throughput loss. That is probably just a timing issue / way the system works. As the belt takes from the miner, the miner has to have 1 in inventory for the belt to take from it. So it produces 1 item, then the belt takes it. If it had 2 then yes, i would say there was some throughput issues, but because you can't take from 0 inventory i do not consider this to be any indication of any loss. After eleven straight hours of running.

4. A restart was never about items in a machine, but rather the resetting of build up of an error over time (Note the original bug existed for all belts, but it was just never seen on slower belts because the amount of items it took to see it have an effect)

5. The bug has, for all intents and purposes been fixed. The bug was that there was too much space between items, and this has been tuned to the appropriate amount. Any other throughput bugs due to performance have also been rectified due to clamping on how many actions per second the Factory Tick can take, and its completely separated from FPS of your game (ie your games performance does not affect throughput or factory calculations)

Indicating in any other direction just causes confusion for people who have no need for that. You have people coming in here from old reddit posts saying they can't use 780 on a mk5 belt ... when this is demonstrably wrong. You have to go out of your way to force an extreme that causes any sort of extremely minor throughput loss. That isnt a bug, thats pushing a system beyond its limits deliberately by a user. ie: user error / user malpractice.

[oblique notch]

while I find myself on the opposite side of you all the time, the one thing I do accept as your expertise is the numbers. You push the game to its limits and you do know the numbers very very well. So thank you for the support.

[median heath]

Only time I will mention belt loss anymore is if people are building world-crossing busses.

[oblique notch]

i don't agree that such knowledge is necessary to play the game for pretty much ... anyone... but i can't deny the fact that you do know the numbers very very well.

[median heath]

Fair.

Also I have been trying to ensure that my opinion is stated as my opinion and people are free to play how they want.

[oblique notch]

well, let me clarify. Such extreme ends of the knowledge of the numbers, like the lockout time on train stations to 6 decimals or something 😛 but still. You got it, its good to have. And i'll freely admit, since its there... i include it when im thinking about it

and ive noticed that as well (your view as your opinion) and ive made an effort (not sure at my success rate but... im making it) to not get involved trying to be the opposite foil other than a "play as you want" statement to anyone caught in our cross fire.

[median heath]

pew pew noises

[oblique notch]

explosions

[median heath]

[oblique notch]

i think there may be a snowball in hell right now.

[median heath]

Singing Bon Jovi no doubt.

🎶 Livin on a Prayer

[tropic hawk]

take my hand/we'll make it I swear,

[median heath]

WHO-OA
LEMON ON A PEAR

[tropic hawk]

oooooooooooh, we gotta hold on/ready or not/ we live for the fight/ You live for the fight when that's all that you've got,

[median heath]

Whoa, we're half-way there.
Who-oa, 🍝 in the air?

[silent roost]

I did a simple test with 2 miners into a merger into a freight platform. Loss of 30 items over 5 minutes. This is not an extreme test setup and no smart splitters were used. #1046721437618151514 message

But it does seem that particular problem can be avoided as long as all belts connected to a merger are all the same speed

[oblique notch]

Your test has waaaay to many other variables to be reliable

It simply has too many moving parts meaning you can't be sure you're testing belt throughout or merger or miner or freight platform or half a dozen other situations.

Hence the miner>belt>sink test as the most simple one we can do with the tools on hand.

Also... Ben has the developer tools to simulate any situation and is confident the actual throughput of a specific belt is fine. (Throw in mergers and multiple miners and what ever else there may be and there are dozens of other places for a potential bug that would conflate the issue)

[silent roost]

True, I cannot demonstrate the cause of the problem. But the measurement is accurate enough to demonstrate that there is loss.

[oblique hollow]

sorry, im a bit out of the loop here. whats this about?

[median heath]

Throughput loss on mk5s post-fix.

[oblique hollow]

I saw something with mergers

I ran test on Mk5 on the day of the fix, together with others. Afterwards i even ran tests on modded belts with higher throughput

The result was that they are pretty stable

well... mk 5 at least

The modded belts still crap out as expected

what i DID notice was mergers only have one slot for buffering now

while as befote that they had a bigger buffer

meaning things that get to the merger at the same time must wait

leading to a miniscule throughput drop now

most noticable with mk 4 and mk 3 merged onto mk 5

[median heath]

Odd change.

[oblique hollow]

its not even one slot, sorry. its one item of capacity

while splitters still buffer more

mergers only buffer a single item

[median heath]

Odd.

Wonder why they changed it.

[oblique hollow]

Maybe game runs better that way

no clue tbh

[median heath]

But that has potentially bad effects on sushi lines...

😦

[oblique hollow]

🤷

[oblique notch]

i dont know if i agree on the accuracy. Your test is assuming the nature of a lot of things we dont know for certain: Deleting 4 belts in one go - is it actually deleting them simultaneously? Similarly turning on and off the power - do they really start simultaneously?

You are making an assumption at at least 3 points that these are all "simultaneous" actions, when i'm relatively sure they are not - they are sequential. I believe (could be wrong!) that the powering on and off is also done once per factory tick as the code recursively reads through a power network - and I also could see the deconstruction of buildables not being on the factory tick, with the assumption that no one needs that to remain constant through FPS drops. As such, there is no gaurantee that there are not items being moved during any of these "simultaneous" actions that your test assumes is not happening

again, too man unknowns / uncontrollable parts to make a valid test

[silent roost]

I was able to see +/-1 item of error (for the reasons you describe), but this is the same whether the test runs for 5 minutes or an hour. An inaccuracy of 1 item does not matter in the grand scheme of things, as it becomes insignificant when the test is run for a sufficiently long enough time.

[frosty owl]

(1) I included the uncertainty brought by the 3-items-buffer in the calculations. Technically, I COULD have eliminated the uncertainty by checking the splitters with the dismantle tool right at the end of each test, but for practical reason I didn't (I'd rather just add more buffers to make the test more precise)

(2) That test was made (iirc) either on a single segment or a 2 segments long belt. I think running the same test for 1h on a 20+ segments belt would be indicative of wether the issue could be detectable by the general efficient user or not (by this I mean: if the issue causes at least 1 reduction in efficiency every hour, people monitoring the power draw or yellow lights would notice).

(4) It's fine if item buildups on belt disappear, but if they do go on different paths due to smart splitters before one restarts the game there will be effects on the machines (eg: Uranium line at 780/min into a factory with connection to sink for overflow).

(5) The semantics of wether the "bug" has been fixed or not don't quite interest me, I'll take your word on that. But practically speaking, there are still the same considerations to be done as in U6 when dealing with maxed belts when one wants perfection. As I said, this is not something I mention often anyway and always accompany with knowledge on wether this can affect their gameplay or not (which allows one to decide wether they care or not).
I'd rather end up spending 5 extra minutes reassuring someone they won't have to worry about the issue, then hours trying to make sure wether that one big builder who wants max efficiency is actually suffering of throughput losses or just any other sort of user error somewhere

[median heath]

(need to change this channel to math-and-meta-and-books)

[limpid schooner]

I am looking into the math related to power generators, im doing a 10k MW. So I am planning on 800/f a min. Is the math all linear to overclocking fuel gens? It appears that way but wanted to make sure before i build them all. Or is there any issues related to overclocking fuel gens related to the math?

[oblique notch]

yes

a 200% oc generator burns twice as much fuel (per minute)

and generates twice as much mws

[rose violet]

Hey nerds

Well wait I play satisfactory a lot too nvm

[river tusk]

i'd be the real nerd here if i told you i was doing allot of the stuff in satisfactory before the game

[deft lichen]

Thinking about playing Satisfactory > Playing Satisfactory

[river tusk]

just saying it DID have a few predicessors after all

[wind spade]

can confirm

[thorn bane]

@median heath havent been around for a while
did you actually get a number for the train lockout?

[median heath]

27.08 is still the number as far as I can tell.

[opaque oak]

I independently confirmed that number with video capture and frame-by-frame analysis.
But limited by both FPS recording and the 60FPS for the captured video.

[vale sierra]

that's 27.08s?

[rancid galleon]

is there a curve or line for overclocking?

if so whats the graph

[oblique hollow]

curve is
original power * (Overclock / 100)^1.321928

heres what the part from 0% to 100% looks like

this was tested with a constructor, so base power is 4 MW

one basic point to note: at 200% Overclock you use 2.5x the original power

and at 250% it is nearly x3.36

the factor 1.321928 is basically Log (2.5) / Log (2)

[frosty owl]

Noted at the end of my post about U7 belts: you can expect longer "cues" of items when merging lines carrying uneven amounts of items. This in turn means that if you have balancers very close to such merging points, they might be affected by such (temporary) item pile-ups

Note: this behaviour could be seen prior to U7 too though it was minimized thanks to the 9-items-buffer they used to have

Note2: @oblique hollow except smart and prog, splitters/mergers now have one inventory space per output

[chrome prawn]

whole time i was so confused why i have only 10 wires left over when im supposed to have 30, turned out it's a 6 not 8

[glass copper]

Anyone familiar with satisfactory calculator?

I want to make effient layouts, but the calculator is saying that i need a miner mk3. I only have miner mk1 unlocked, how do i change this?

[hollow zenith]

go to options and set it to realistic mode

[vapid gorge]

use tools instead - it's easier to look at what to actually do and it'll just tell you you need X resources per min and you can sort out that yourself https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[glass copper]

Oh damn thank u so much !
This is more easily indeed since it tells u what to overclock and undrclock etc !
Now i need to try and figure out how big that factory is gonne be haha

Im wondering, do i need to automate every single material? or are there some things what are not worth automating?

[wind spade]

I'd recommend switching to U6 version

top right corner, switch to U6

U6 and U7 have same recipes

[glass copper]

Ahhthank u ! got it 😄

Do i need to automate every material? or are there some materials not worth automating?

[exotic acorn]

I recomend automatic all of materials :)

[wind spade]

you only need to automate those materials that are required for building

[oblique notch]

You can always do the clocking different and yourself too.

When you're inputting clocking on a machine you can also put it in thr amount you produce (instead of a percentage). You can also do math right in the input fields (ie 20/30*100)

[wind spade]

there are 33 of them across all tiers

[snow dove]

33 non-consumables to be specific

though you may want to automate certain consumables too

[oblique notch]

You only need to store as endpoints the parts that are used for building

You automate everything but you only need to store those 33 parts

[glass copper]

Ahh, since im now on tier 2. i automated the basics, but was wondering if i need to automate rotor / reinforced iron plate / modular frame / smart plating

[oblique notch]

(And you can get away with not storing screws as they are only used for thr Awesome Shop

The entire point of the game is automation

[fierce ruin]

no need to automate smart plating

[snow dove]

yes, yes, yes, depends

[glass copper]

yea that confused me since it said 'space elevator'

[snow dove]

i swear they used to be used for power storages

[glass copper]

so basicly automate all except whats under 'space elevator'?

[snow dove]

yes and no

[oblique notch]

Well you have too... but you don't have to do complete factories just for it (it can't be hand crafted)

Since you only need a set number of them a lot ofnus just chuck the parts into some storage bins and connect those up to a machine creating the SE parts

[wind spade]

the way I recommend:

• don't automate anything that you don't need yet
• when you figure out you need something for building new stuff you unlocked, automate that thing

[fierce ruin]

yeah the space elevator parts you'd only make enough for the phase

[glass copper]

Oooh gotcha, yea im building factories now, but i hate to have to re-do a factory for example couse i didnt know that that thing had to be automated

[fierce ruin]

the only point you'd need to worry about automating them is for the very last phase

[wind spade]

you never need to redo factories, you can just build new ones

[glass copper]

so i dont know what i will need for future wise

[vapid gorge]

there isn't much you shouldn't automate. I'll often ignore ammo and stuff for automation

[fierce ruin]

which is after you unlock tiers 7 & 8

[wind spade]

yeah, ignore that. Only build what you need right now

future stuff will have own factory anyway

[fierce ruin]

btw why do people make dual lane railroads?

[oblique notch]

And you'll get alts for parts you already are building which use entirely different production trains

[oblique notch]

Because signals and multiple train on one track. Each side only goes one direction

[glass copper]

ahhh, yea i was thinking like this 'i now unlocked rotor, modular frame, reinforced iron plate, smart plating'.
So i was thinking of making a specific factory just for that

just as what i did with the starting stuff basiclyu

[oblique notch]

Instead go "I need rotors to build this building. So I will automate rotors today" or "I need modular frames for this building. So I will automate them"

[glass copper]

ahhhh gotcha ! thanks allot 🙂 now its time to automate rotor, modular frame and reinforced iron plates then. oh man i need coal power asap haha

[fierce ruin]

i'm not sure i follow

[glass copper]

Quick question aswell. So the visualization tells me i dont need to overclock or underclock the smelters.
ALTOUGH i need less ingots to go to my iron rods then i need on my iron plates?

this confuses me without splitters and mergers in there lol

[oblique notch]

Trains will collide. With signals you can prevent this but it also prevents two trains to be between the same signals. If you only have one track, train coming from one side enters, the train on the other side has to wait until the segment between signals is clear before it can go

So for a long 1 track length on which trains go both directions on the same track, you have to wait until a train clears it for another to enter. This means trains are sitting and waiting

If you use paired tracks and each track is one direction only (ie right hand drive, like both lanes of a road) then your trains can continue to move down those dual paths without waiting for it to clear

[wind spade]

there's a thing called manifold 🙂

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[glass copper]

OOOOOOOH

[oblique notch]

Since your raw ores are infinite you never have to balance them (as there are no gaps in the supply) so you can just do the manifold. Once it equalizes itself it will always be equal

[glass copper]

So if im correct i need it like this then?

-Smelter Merger

-Smelter Splitter up

-Smelter Merger

-Smelter Splitter up

So basicly like this? so that smelter 1 and 2 are connecting their outputs and so does 3 and 4?

[wind spade]

just merge all smelters

and then make a manifold out of all the machines that need the ingots

[glass copper]

ahh alright gotcha 🙂

[wind spade]

(assuming you have mk2 belts)

[glass copper]

yea i thought that i needed 2 smelters for top part and 2 for bottom part lol

[wind spade]

no, you need slightly less than two for top and slightly more than two for bottom 🙂

[glass copper]

ahhh yea got it, no the arrows kind of confused me there 🙂

[vapid gorge]

and if you want to split things event w/o a lot of effort, using that last example you put up, you could have a set of machines that make 22.5 iron rods and only merge those and have 1 belt sent to screws and a set of machines making 30 iron rods pm sent to frames

I mention this because a lot of people want to send belts with specific numbers on them and try to do overly complicated load balance systems when you can just make a set of machines make what you need

[glass copper]

Damn this stuff is confusing. My brain cells arnt big enough for this

[vapid gorge]

any bit in particular you have a question about?

[glass copper]

I guess im just a idiot 😂 dont wanna emberace myself here haha

[vapid gorge]

nah, everyone is a noob at some point - fire away

[glass copper]

Aight let me try and do something, ill be back soon once i am struggling, what will probably be in the next 5 minutes lol

Lol here i am already, so to merge ALL 4 smelters. how do u do that? a splitter doesnt work nor does a merge

[vapid gorge]

simple answer- dont

often times because you benefit from overclocking miners your limiting factor is your belt speed

A lot of people have the urge to bring all one thing and merge them as much as possible and splitting them again but it's a ton of work and awful when you have the option to upgrade belts and miners

[glass copper]

Oh, couse greeny told me to do it a second ago

[vapid gorge]

he mentioned merging smelters? Not quite the same thing

[vapid gorge]

you can send all the ore from 1 miner to 1 set of smelters and then merge all those easily?

[glass copper]

Oh its inputs he ment, yea i did that already, thought he ment the outputs

[vapid gorge]

Well you wouldn't merge all the smelters from 4 miners - I'd imagine in general that's way more than 1 belt can handle

[glass copper]

oh yea i got 1 miner, then splitting into 4 mergers. but i thought he ment merge all the outputs

since i was talking about this like AFTER the smelter

[vapid gorge]

Do you have mk1 or mk2 belts?

[glass copper]

mk2

[vapid gorge]

ok well if you wanted to with that plan you could merge them all? but I wouldn't since upgrading things later would be worse

do you have power shards to over clock miners?

shouldn't need 4 nodes for 120 ore

[glass copper]

Alright so let me quickly do a explenation, i think i got it

So if im correct [acording to the picture] this is how u do it?

that top row of the line btw, with the 3.5x constructor

[vapid gorge]

for hte rods? looks good

[glass copper]

Yea

oh man i feel stupid lol thank u !

oh wait now im continueing i know what the issue was lol

so the iron ingot bottom line is 67.5/m. but it only has 2 smelters, so it only gets 60/m. and it is not connected to the output of the other 2 smelters

so it cant manifest neighter

[vapid gorge]

add another then 😄

[glass copper]

oh yea i was talking about trying to follow that satisfactorytools 😄

[vapid gorge]

but I'm heading to sleep, sometimes it helps to manually draw things at first to get it straight if you don't have a good spacial grasp of things 😄

like draw each machine with numbers - after a bit it'll prob come naturally

[glass copper]

Alright sorry to keep you awake ! good night !:D

[round talon]

Plan to produce 750 silica but the calculation from assembler that produce silica are 749.999.
Does the number good or it going to be a problem?

[tropic hawk]

It's a graphics glitch, it should work fine

[round talon]

Nice, thanks

[glass copper]

What calculator website do u guys like the most when you try to plan something out? There seems to be so many of em

[noble timber]

Excel 😉

[median heath]

Tools >

[glass copper]

What?

[median heath]

Question: "What website?"
Answer: "Tools" with a ">" indicating it is greater than the rest.

[round talon]

Link?

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[muted goblet]

#welcome

[round talon]

Oh, that the one i use.

[tropic hawk]

SatisfactoryTools Beta

[left fractal]

how to make this 100

[wind spade]

33.3333%

[median heath]

You can't.

[left fractal]

thanksss

anyway to like calculate

[left fractal]

it can be

[median heath]

It cannot.

[left fractal]

its 100 now

[wind spade]

[required] / [produced] * 100

[median heath]

300 * 0.333333 = 99.9999
99.9999 != 100

[wind spade]

it is 99.9999, but close enough for most people apart from Sev

[left fractal]

100 / 100 * 100 =?

[wind spade]

required = 100
produced = 300

first screenshot shows it produces 300

[left fractal]

oh

i thought the other machine produced

[tropic hawk]

Consumed rather than produced, but it still works

[left fractal]

any name they call this formula

[wind spade]

yeah, it's what you learn at elementary school when doing percentages

[tropic hawk]

You can do desired/original *100 to get 100% accuracy

[left fractal]

um i didnt learn that

[tropic hawk]

What country do you live in?

[left fractal]

Iran

[tropic hawk]

That's why.

[left fractal]

thanks

[left fractal]

yeah bad luck for me

[tropic hawk]

Yep, good luck

[left fractal]

thank you

[abstract copper]

Is satisfactory tools up to date, or is there a new place to go for a similarly awesome planner?

[wind spade]

it is up to date

[abstract copper]

Cool, I couldn't remember if there were any recipe changes in update 6 or 7

[wind spade]

just change to U6 in top right

[abstract copper]

Thank you!!!

[prisma kraken]

there's satisfactorytools, satisfactory-calculator, and a newer unpolished one i like a lot is sp.runesun.com

[frosty owl]

There is also this one. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks pretty cool
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/10mwgmm/if_you_use_calculators_you_should_check_out/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[fickle ocean]

guys, i need to know how to split a 15 item belt into 5 equal conveyer belts, can u please help

[remote lance]

What is the what kind of belts? What is the total throughput?

[remote lance]

Its probably going to be huge ;J

@fickle ocean also, do all incomming belts have different loads or are some equal do begin with?

@fickle ocean Are you sure you need to balance them, or could you also work with overflows?

[visual grail]

Split the 15 belt into 3 belts of 5. Split each of those into two belts. Send one of those (now six) belts to merge it back into the line before the first splitter.

[remote lance]

I read "15 belts" not " 15 item belt" 🫣

[visual grail]

🤣 Yeah, that would be more complicated for sure.

[median heath]

Manifold.

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

[vapid gorge]

Manifold

[muted goblet]

Ha, silly me thought 1k quickwires per min were already big thinking. I'm rebuilding to get 1600 to fulfill my current needs and after that i need to grab an extra node.

Theres so much need for quickwire when using those alts.

[median heath]

QW is Screw 2.0 once you get to the higher tiers.

[muted goblet]

Kinda yeah

[vapid gorge]

yeah I have 12k qw in one spot xD

[muted goblet]

Holy.. 😄 i might max out things later. But for now i just need to add 2 more BPs and some Belts. If i move my PC Factory a little, i can also fit another pure node inbetween If i really need it.. 😄

[vapid gorge]

it's just for the uranium rods. 1 factory xD

[muted goblet]

Bruh.. uranium rods take that much? Nuclear is the next project once i've unlocked the last tier..

[vapid gorge]

if you do a max uranium rod build.
Otherwise no

I think you can make uranium rods with 0 qw actually

[muted goblet]

Well yeah thats probably dependend on how the recipes are, didnt look into it too much yet

I'll unlock it once i pumped up the qw production and Made the third Elevator Part

[vapid gorge]

yeah just checked , base recipes dont use qw at all

[muted goblet]

I might still hunt the missing alts, some might be easier

[ocean sluice]

infused uranium cells and uranium fuel unit are the most effecient

i get 420GW with 66% map uranium

also for plutonium unless you are using them for power the defaults for everything is best imo cause less rods/m and less machines

if you want to use plutonium power... things get tricky

[muted goblet]

Nah man, waste-free it is

[limpid schooner]

So i currently have this setup, 20 fuel gens(10 each side) fully overclocked taking 30 fuel each.

Why are the 2 ones that are yellow having an issue getting fuel? Is this just a scenario using 600 fuel is not a good idea?

I split it in the middle to just see what would happen. The ones closer to me are always full and this is where the 2 300 pipes meet. So each inlet should be getting 30 each and that pipe not connected would in theory have 0 left

[ornate nimbus]

hi I need help doing some steel math

so I have 1250 steel ingots p/m as input and I want to turn it all into steel pipes

I'm fine with overclocking or underclocking but I just can't figure out a nice number where the inputs divide evenly and the outputs come to a whole number

[zinc crater]

42 constructors, 42nd clocked to 66.6667%.
Splits evenly into 3 rows of 14 constructors.

And just manifold the 3 rows.

[ornate nimbus]

alr

it's kind of annoying that it can't come out evenly but that's steel for you ig

[zinc crater]

If you split your 1250, you can make 3 mk4 belts that will have 416.66666667 items/min on them, so you won't have to worry about bottle neck. and go straight to your rows of machines

Your end result will be 2 belts that match, and one belt that has slightly less pipes.

But you'll get 833.333 steel pipes/min off that.

[ornate nimbus]

oh ok

I know you can also modify the manifold so it will normalize quicker if you only use the minimum mk belt for the direct lines from the splitters

like this:

[ornate nimbus]

also how do I worry about the even 416?

like, how do I balance that without the mk level bottleneck?

[zinc crater]

How is your ingots coming out of smelters?

Like what's the setup for ingots being made.

[ornate nimbus]

that's another portion of my factory for steel beams

[zinc crater]

I meant foundries..

[ornate nimbus]

sec, I'll screenshot it

[zinc crater]

Thanks

[ornate nimbus]

there are two of these that are 500 lines

and then there is one 250 line at the end

[zinc crater]

If you want it to be totally balanced for the numbers, you can make a 3 to 3 belt balancer so that the 3 lines get split and merged, 3 and 3

sec

Something like this

then 3 three lines coming off the mergers will be the 416 and bit...from there you just plug em into the three rows of constructors and let it saturate.

make sense?

[ornate nimbus]

oh that helps a lot, ty

where did you go for that?

I wish I could draw diagrams like that

[zinc crater]

Someone with a lot of time on their hands uploaded an album to reddit 4 years ago.
https://imgur.com/a/TnomMFk#0exj38K

It's very rarely most/all of these need to be used. But for your situation, I think a load balancer would be simplest for you to get the steel pipes results you want.

[wind spade]

that's not true. use mk5s everywhere and it will stabilise faster

[wind spade]

I'd personally just use what is on the belt instead of doing the merger/splitter thing

[zinc crater]

@ornate nimbus do you have mk5 belts unlocked?

[ornate nimbus]

yep

[zinc crater]

Then you can split your 250 line, merge each half to the 500 lines, and send two 650 lines to 2 rows of 21 constructors, with the 42n'd clocked like I mentioned before.

Or if you overclock the constructors, you can use a lot less of them.

Everything I suggested before was under the impression you had mk4 belts only.

[wind spade]

why not send 500 lines to set of machines that use 500 and send 250 line to set of machines that uses 250?

[zinc crater]

^ or that.

mk5 belts makes it a whole lot simpler to setup.
I thought you were trying to balance it with a belt limitation.

[ornate nimbus]

ig I'll go with manifold

[zinc crater]

well technically, all of them are manifolds lol

It's just a matter of picking one of the 3 options we've given. There's obviously other ways too.

[ornate nimbus]

yeah ik sadge

[summer fox]

if i put a smart spilter set on overflow on a belt with 960 pm the 180 over the belt limit would be classed as overflow wouldnt it, i have 2 nodes at 480 and i would like to merge them

[frosty owl]

Belts only carry up to 780/min, unless you mod (in which case, it's not certain wether exact splitting is possible or not)

Anything that doesn't fit on one belt after merging multiple ones tends to back up behind the merging point.
"Overflow splitters" send this "back up" to different outputs after it surpasses 3 units (which go in the splitters' overflow buffer)

[vapid gorge]

at no point will any part of the belt go over their maximum - doesn't matter if you have 'overflow'

[vapid gorge]

also don't merge all your mining nodes. I know it's an impulse people have to just squish all of one thing together and then resplit it but it doesn't really do anything but make it harder to upgrade later and a mess to untangle

[summer fox]

they are already mk 3 miners so it is fine

[vapid gorge]

still a terrible idea - and if they are mk3 then your node limits should be 300 600 and 780

[summer fox]

i`m not overclocking them

[frosty owl]

Oh? That's rare ^^
Any reason why?

[summer fox]

it is for a steel factory in the desert and i am uncertain how much steel i am going to need i rather not overclock and have to build double the amount of smelters+foundaries and be over producing, if i need more i can overclock and expand at a later date

[vapid gorge]

if you have mk5 belts you've already built your heavy modular frame factory I guess?

[vapid nest]

Sorry to barge in like that, but after a few months not playing the game I decided to start my old save file again. I got spawned to my Asheet factory, with 7 refineries in front of me. At first confused, as I thought I finished the factory, I went to see what they produced: purified iron ingots. I then noticed the to do list just saying "SB / SP" and I immediately knew I went for a steel factory. Through Reverse engineering I found out I wanted to produce 120pm each. Now for my question: why would you want "this many" items when you have a perfectly working steel factory at base. Or would it be just a more efficient way, considering the addition of water increases the yielded steel significantly?

[vapid gorge]

is your question 'why am I using pure iron ingot recipe?'

[vapid nest]

my question is why would I build a new steel factory when I already have one

[vapid gorge]

I guess if you were making a iron refinery you probably had plans to do something with it? steel isn't the only thing iron is used for

Might need more

[vapid nest]

For what

[vapid gorge]

.. A big factory?

Why am I making 22,000 steel ingots for?

[vapid nest]

The next best use for steel beams is plutonium rods, but I haven't even started with nuclear yet

Hm.

[vapid gorge]

Iron wire is very useful

[vapid nest]

Maybe it really is just a more efficient way to produce steel

[vapid gorge]

many many iron plates for more HMF

depends what you mean by 'efficient'

using Pure Iron Ingots and Solid Steel ingot would be very efficient sure

but there's so much iron about I haven't considered using Pure Iron recipe

my factory I'm planning to make 300 HMF per minute needs something like 16k iron ingots per min - there so much in the area I'm using the base recipe for iron ingots

[vapid nest]

Maybe it's because my steel factory at base is convoluted and building it anew with the pure iron is more efficient. Yea, probablythat.

[vapid gorge]

Maybe 😄

[fickle cedar]

Why u need so many heavy frames tho?

[vapid gorge]

big world project

[tranquil talon]

need a quick help to start my diluted packaged fuel factory:
I made a closed system of conveyor belts that connects the water packagers and the diluted fuel unpackagers. The factory is composed of 4 arrays of 6.66 packagers and unpackagers and 6.66 refineries (.66 meaning one structure underclocked at 66%) for a total of 4x400m3 of water/tanks per min, the conveyors beetween the machines are short and all the machines are connected by manifolds.
How many empty tanks do I need to start and let the factory run at 100%?

[vapid nest]

@tranquil talon I don't have an exact answer to that, but here's what I did:
In the loop where the empty tanks would be, place a storage unit (or a industrial one), then, fill the entire thing with tanks. Then wait (the whole system needs to be running). Additionally, place the max stack of empty tanks into the packagers. And then refill the storage units until no more tanks get drawn out. Done.

Safe to say you need a lot of empty tanks.

[tranquil talon]

cool ty!

[oblique hollow]

the easiest tip i can give for future builds:
make a blueprint with one set of packagers per refinery, so closed loops, and save the BP with empty canisters inside the water packager

then you dont havy any of these issues, ever

and its easy to build more. if you are smart about it you can save space with that

the whole "giant loop of canisters from every machine is collected" is a silly design in my opinion

[verbal fog]

quick question. does over clocking production to be faster than the belts move make a difference at all?

[median heath]

Belts/pipes are always your ultimate limiting factor.

[verbal fog]

dang. good to know then. thanks!

[median heath]

1200 from mk3 on pure was implemented before they knew 780 would be the engine limit.
It's on their "to-fix" list.

[verbal fog]

ah

[median heath]

Mk6 belt is extremely unlikely given issues.
Most probable solutions are numbers rebalance where they bring everything down a bit or they just add a second output to the mk3 model.

Know one knows what precisely they are doing other than the devs themselves.

[verbal fog]

right now im trying to rebuild my whole factory and just got mk4 belts. wondering if over clocking my nearby coal mines to 600 would do anything or if i should jus keep em over clocked at 480

[median heath]

You can't put 600 onto a 480.
So...

[heavy gust]

watch me

[oblique notch]

It's worth noting that faster than 780 can be done without issues... in a vacuum.

But the devs have to balance the entire game and the performance of the entire game. Mk6 belts likely tip several delicate performance balances in the wrong direction. It's something that could be accounted for of course, but is that simple solution worth the resulting effort to make other systems work better/faster to make up for any performance hits faster belts cause?

Or - as CSS is doing - should other/all potential solutions be explored that may not only fix that particular problem, but also address other things?

[hard plank]

Here’s my first attempt at a planning document. Any opinions or changes are welcome https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_hJPJfyB6nDTA93NXQlms_wIu1VCGrctaK_fiKQBYKk/edit

[median heath]

ANY opinions eh??

Major dislike because it isn't on real paper notepad.
😏

[hard plank]

I’m pretty new so I’m sure I did a lot wrong 😅

[median heath]

Actual criticism:
Where does it say final amount of Rods (of each type) you are building?

Where does it specify which alt recipes you are planning to use?

[hard plank]

I’ll add a separate box for plutonium fuel rod output and alt recipes 👍🏼

[median heath]

Is there a box for Uranium Fuel Rod output I a missing somewhere?

[hard plank]

Yes it’s in the ax column at row 77/78

[median heath]

OH YOU CAN SCROLL DOWN 👀

[hard plank]

Yes I have pictures for everything 👍🏼

[median heath]

Yeah most of my outlines fit in the first 36 line section you can see without scrolling, lol

[hard plank]

Yeah I went for a less compact design with this one 😂

@median heath overall do you think it’s pretty good?

[median heath]

What determines "goodness" is whether or not YOU can follow it and if it helps YOU build the project.

[hard plank]

Makes sense. I Guess I should look at things with a wider lens 👀

Thanks for the insight

[elder cypress]

What might be useful is a way to track what you have built and still need. I know you can do that in game but I find the checklist sometimes gets hard to use when there are a lot of things to build and I have had to rebuild sections of the production line.

[deft lichen]

my way of tracking my factories are 50 SFTools tabs

[hard plank]

I created everything on SFTools first then added the screenshots into sheets. I’m also planning on using different colors to show what’s done and what’s not

[oblique notch]

Whatever works for you 🙂 I use in game signs lol

[lament aurora]

Diluted or turbo fuel for a fuel gen setup?

[wind spade]

Diluted

[lament aurora]

Best recipes for maximum bauxite value?

[rustic patio]

You should reconsider wether you actually want max bauxite

There is another recipe that uses no quartz and only produces a "little" less aluminium

[vapid gorge]

Yeah max bauxite is a time and a half.

[vapid nest]

Uhm is it bad when my belts are a higher tier than needed? My machines won't fill up and my system doesn't run at full capacity, was using only mk5 belts a bad idea?

[rustic patio]

Nope

If your machines don't run at 100% all the time you either are not supplying enough resources or used a belt tier too low

[vapid nest]

found the issue

didn't realize the cole node was normal. Thought it was pure.

Time to find SCHLUGS

[vapid nest]

Question to those guys that run massive systems that produce thousands of items per minute: Build everything in one building and ship the raw materials in or process as much as possible before shipping them? Does it even matter?

[wind spade]

build separate factories that process ores to final products and ship products to storage

[vapid nest]

But what if you can't process it to the final products because it needs resources from a different location?

[wind spade]

build the factory close to nodes it needs 🤷‍♂️

in the rare cases it needs something from far, deliver that to the location 🤷‍♂️

[vapid nest]

Good location for a RCU factory?

[oblique notch]

Or make dedicated sub factories. The more you can refine material to higher tier parts close to nodes the less you have to transport making your large scale logistics significantly easier

[wind spade]

the reason I recommend final product factories is to reduce the complexity of logistics, you have isolated factories that don't depend on each other

[vapid nest]

That's what I think as well, but seeing the amounts of raw materials needed for RCU I just think some parts needto be shipped in

[wind spade]

or some raw ores 🤷‍♂️

[rustic patio]

Or make multiple factories

Or make a giant train network that sends stuff all over the place just because it's fun

[vapid nest]

What do you mean by multiple factories?

[rustic patio]

well, lets say you want 100rcu/min

but that spot only has enough resources for 60

so instead of shipping resources in, just make another factory that produces the other 40

[wind spade]

why would you need 100/min

[rustic patio]

i couldve said 90000, the number is irrelevant

if you want X rcu but the production capability of a location is <X rcu then you can make a second factory so that the total production == X

replace x with whatever number you want, 10, 100 or 2

[wind spade]

fair, but you won't ever need more than like 10-15 rcu/min and for that most spots have enough

[median heath]

I JUST DO, OK.

[rustic patio]

Again, it's beside the point

You could say the same about wanting to produce 10 RCU/min and only having capacity for 6

[wind spade]

most spots have enough for that

[rustic patio]

Again, beside the point

It was just an example to answer the question...

You can change out the component and amount for anything

[median heath]

Now you have me wondering if it is "besides" or just "beside"....

[rustic patio]

I could've just as well talked about producing 4737 flux capacitors/min

[rustic patio]

Hmmm, I'm not sure

Without the s apparently

[snow dove]

“beside” refers to a location, “besides” specifically refers something that is unrelated to the point

from grammarly.com

[spice jolt]

Been seeing a lot of users posting videos/screenshots of them accidentally blasting themselves to oblivion with Hypertube cannons. Has anyone done the appropriate experiments on how far each length will shoot you on the map? (I have, but don't want to clutter this area up with the requisite table/screenshot, until I know it isn't already available.)

[oblique hollow]

wiki has data

!wikisearch hypertube+cannon

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=hypertube+cannon

[oblique hollow]

theres is your graph for launch distance

X axis is number of entrances

Y is launch distance in m. Blue curve

[spice jolt]

Okay, I'm confident that equation was formed by trying to create a formula based on a few points and trying to shoehorn them to work. It is slightly inaccurate below 7 entrances, and WILDLY inaccurate above 13.

[oblique hollow]

its just open office trying to fit in an equation

because we didnt have enough data points

not to mention

its been normalized for 0 entrance evlocity and 45° launch angle

the data points on the graph are all from measurements

[spice jolt]

This is real-world data from walk-in velocity on flat ground:

[oblique hollow]

though making it work for varying entrance velocities is a hard pass

walking in and running in and jumping in all yield different results

and im not even sure if varioues cannon designs dont affect it either

soooo chances for a proper equation are 0, these are for estimation at best

[oblique hollow]

tbh.... seems close enough

[spice jolt]

I'll take information from literally anyone else at this point.

[oblique hollow]

there is none

your own measurements are the best bet

[spice jolt]

I mean anyone other than you.

[oblique hollow]

.... im not sure anyone else bothered?

[median heath]

All of my hypers are point-to-point.
So my care level for "how far will this shoot me if I didn't do point-to-point?" is extremely low.

🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

heres the actual data i recorded

[spice jolt]

Every interaction I have with you, you just start spouting information without actually reading or considering what anyone else has contributed. It's phenomenally annoying, and I would hard-block you if it were possible on Discord.

[median heath]

(Added because he said "anyone other than you" and I am other than McGalleon)

[oblique hollow]

you can tho. just go ahead

[median heath]

@oblique hollow Welcome to the club ❤️

[spice jolt]

Yeah, I'm more looking at new users having some idea how many entrances they may need.

[oblique hollow]

You know.... within tolerance, both your measurement and what i did seems to overlap.
the tolerance being "within the same order of magnitute"

getting any closer would be hard anyway since entrance velocity can greatly vary

[spice jolt]

Literally what I typed earlier. Again, you were spouting information without processing anything which was said. 🙄

[oblique hollow]

aaaand i agreed there

unless it didnt come across that way

[spice jolt]

FFS, Discord needs a hard block function.

[oblique hollow]

honestly, I think im rather just gonna block you because getting that tilted that fast is not the kind of person i honestly wanna attempt to help

Passing note: feel free to correct the wiki data.
its open to anyone anyway

[wind spade]

I missed 🍿?

[oblique notch]

Hyper cannons are a physics bug. They cannot be accurately measured because they rely on a glitch that is intentionally not being fixed. As that glitch is related to the physics engine snd multiplication of speed in ways we have no way to measure, and even a small change in starting speed will change the outcome for similar tests, there is no way to properly measure or control them.

Literally the difference of a few cm further back from the cannon entrance when you start moving toward it changes your starting velocity and therefor changes your output.

The difference in your frame rate can also affect it.

The difference in cpus calculating and resulting in slightly different ( but programically equal) floating point numbers can change it.

It's a bug. One we take advantage of, but one that cannot be relied on.

[vapid gorge]

Mcgal is one of the chillest most generally helpful people I’ve seen online xD

[median heath]

Wow... hurtful.

[spice jolt]

And Elon Musk is a great Twitterer.

[vapid gorge]

Oh shit dude, you’re lucky he’s chill

I’m super helpful but I’d tell you to tie your tongue in a knot and choke if you compared me to musk

[wind spade]

idk why everyone has an issue with musk 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Can we not have that conversation in this channel? Please?

[spice jolt]

patiently waiting for 'Shitposting about users who definitely ran from class-to-class in high school despite never being at risk of being late' to become a category on the server

[sand epoch]

Clearly I missed another party. Who are we blocking now?

[vapid gorge]

Mcgal I think? They are apparently the worst person

[sand epoch]

It's all the pipes.. too much fluid on the brains.

[barren elm]

Is it really tho

Someone out there intentionally added your current movement speed to your new movement speed

The framerate thing is because it's just easier to tie anything physics-based to framerate

After all, if you have 180 frames per second, you expect all the physics objects in the world to update 180 times per second, including yourself

[median heath]

It is. Going from 1 Entrance to the other isn't supposed to compound. But it it does. 🤷‍♂️
Not intended behaviour, but "fun" so it is most likely never going to be fixed.

[spice jolt]

Jace specifically confirmed in last week's dev stream that they now no longer have plans to "correct it". They now view it as "part of the game" since it has become so widely adopted. That's why I just recently took an interest in actually hammering out transfer distances. Until it was confirmed to be staying around, it was a novelty; now, it's part of the meta.

[median heath]

It's an accepted bug now.
So what Lynkfox said about it not being able to be precisely measured is true.

[spice jolt]

I'm not sure how much variance is actually imparted by the variables. At some point, I'll play around with framerates and see what percent of difference it actually makes. Even if it's 5-10% of the total, that's still small enough to be fine-tuned with jetpack use pretty easily.

[median heath]

You've still got the variable of your own speed when entering.
Like.. are you sprinting? Do you have Blade Runners? Did you slide-jump off a mk5 conveyor belt?

Did you jump-pad yourself into it?

[spice jolt]

I've standardized the entrance speed to "walking on flat terrain" (a foundation, specifically).

[median heath]

Ok so... yeah...

[oblique notch]

starting even a couple cm's farther back could change your speed. Entering it at an angle instead of straight on could change your speed. Having a lag spike right before you enter could change your speed.

These are not things that can be controlled in your environment.

Feel free to run ever test you want. Just be aware... the results will have a larger than ~~normal ~~standard deviation because of the number of factors you cannot reliably control.

hell, the different foundation types have different speed coefficients. Its small, but it does exist.

[rustic patio]

That's not enough

The way you place the entrances also changes how fast you go

If you place them super close together it doesn't work as well

I think you can get the same speed every time with some tricks and get basically the same distance every time, I think "it's a glitch so we can't/shouldn't measure it" is a bad argument

[oblique notch]

Long and short of it, the one thing you have to control to an absolute 100% - the entrance speed - cannot be controlled reliably.

And look, again - do whatever you wish. Some information, even imperfect, is more useful than nothing sure. But my day job is testing. Designing testing rules/sets/situations to be as close to reliable as possible and one of the cardinal rules I follow is if I can't control every aspect except the part im testing, its a suspect test and needs to at best be held to the side and not mixed in with any that require certainty, but more normally just not used - Design a better test.

Said the same thing to everyone doing the belt 2 belt throughput testing. many of those tests were suspect to me simply because we dont control everything.

[rustic patio]

I think if you use a hypertube to go up and down you always have the same speed

[oblique notch]

That all being said: There is never a point as consumers we will ever control all of them

[rustic patio]

At least that's what I heard

[oblique notch]

nah. FPS, which driver set your using, your GPU that is doing the physics calculations... far to many things. And even if you can get it constant for you, its only good for your system because the things that physics are linked to can change on different systems.

[rustic patio]

I mean the same entrance speed

[oblique notch]

but anyways - finishing my previous thought - We'll never control everything. So test. test as best you think you can. Its better than nothing, and it can provide a "range" of results that give some information and its the only situation we have.

[spice jolt]

I'm kind of over all of the "These are all the reasons it won't work" nonsense. I've got more than 400 hours in the game. If anyone thinks I haven't encountered the variations, it means they assume I'm either new, or stupid. Both are dangerous assumptions to make of anyone. The fact is that every time I enter one of my hypertube cannons, I end up in roughly the same spot. Some of you are making is sound like I can end up in totally different areas of the map on each attempt. Getting it 100% right may not be possible, but 90% right is a lot better than the nonsense which is currently on the wiki. If you have a legitimate concern, feel free to give it; if you're just trying to tell me why my answers can never be 100% accurate, go perfect your own existence before you try correcting anyone else's. 😤

[oblique notch]

just be very very well aware ... and be clear with anyone and everyone - those results may not be indicative to how it works on someone elses system ... and given some quirks in the system it may not even work the same way in the same game in different locations then thats fine.

[rustic patio]

i want to try that out now

[oblique notch]

Look. We have people who come in here every day who still think that mk5 belts cannot do 780ppm. Who think that its a Mk2 pipe literally cannot do 600m3/min. Whom believe all sorts of things they heard on reddit or the wiki or here or anywhere that are incorrect

Because people did "tests" and presented the information as gospel. People did "tests" with flawed premises or bad testing or starting points of data that cannot be accurately controlled and that information now continues to percolate through the community every single day, leading people to believe things that simply are not true.

So when you read my posts here, and you get angry because i tell you your testing will inherently be flawed, your end results will inherently be flawed, don't take that as me telling you its useless, or that its stupid. Take it as an adult and understand - as you said - some information is better than none, BUT it is extremely important that the qualifications of how it can be inconsistent and a local users mileage may vary, that such results are a starting point and not a definite must be clear.

Because otherwise it just becomes another piece of flawed, partially mis-informed or off kilter information floating around and making more confusion.

[median heath]

(complete sarcasm and just to poke at Lynkfox a bit)
So I'm allowed to speak to this topic as I have already perfected my own existence?

[oblique notch]

and to be fair - their was a throughput bug for the mk5 belts. And 600m3 in mk2 is not an easy thing to achieve if you dont understand the ins and outs. And Sev believes (somehow) he is a perfect being.

But well... things change. And physics based glitches are the most likely to change without knowledge or warning or even a glimmer that it has changed until suddenly it does. Its one of those things that might get fixed on accident because of some other change somewhere else. Because glitches are not reliable

But that does not mean - in any understanding - that you should not go out and explore the boundaries of the glitch.

[rustic patio]

how does one get those distances?

[median heath]

Sev believes (somehow) he is a perfect being.

It was clarified sarcasm 😭

@oblique notch 😭

[spice jolt]

Coordinates on the world map.

[rustic patio]

aah

[oblique notch]

Is sarcasm a measure of a perfect being? 😉

[median heath]

I feel there is no good reply to that in your eyes 😂

[spice jolt]

I established the end of the cannon, then measured distances where I landed. The marker for the player can be WILDLY inconsistent because the center of the marker is the player location, not the end of the little arrow coming off one side of it. Thus, I had to ensure I was facing the same cardinal direction at every measurement to ensure I was using the "ruler" to measure to the same relative spot for each measurement.

[oblique notch]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-joey-i-dont-know-shrugs-idk-gif-16477921

[median heath]

[oblique notch]

that... sums it up alright. 🤔 🤷 😎

[median heath]

😂 ❤️

[mystic moon]

I'd want to see exact coordinates with scim

[median heath]

If you're wanting to do exact measurements you'd need to build foundations all the way out from the launch point so you could count the distance 🤷‍♂️

[spice jolt]

Ummm...wut?

[sand epoch]

holy heck.. are you still arguing about speed canons?

[oblique notch]

same coordinates that are in the Map

[wind spade]

That's... very inaccurate measurement. Why not x/y/z coordinates?

[spice jolt]

Because trajectory would have been far too difficult to determine without way more effort than I felt like putting into it. I had 2 measurements in the steppes around the center plateau which required a slight amount of guesswork due to elevation changes -- though far less than I thought I would need prior to starting the "flights" -- but the rest were similar enough that I would still hold a good degree of confidence in their applicability.

[wind spade]

That's not what I mean. Even if you do just 2D distance, why are you not using ingame coordinates to measure it, instead of using the player marker

[spice jolt]

Is "because I have no desire to mess around with Console" the right wording of the answer? The coordinates are the coordinates. The player marker is plenty accurate at 8x zoom as long as the orientation is consistent.

[wind spade]

one command to enable showing coordinates on the screen isn't that hard, but if you want to trade convenience for inaccurate measurements, then w/e

[spice jolt]

"innacurate measurements"? They're better than anything anyone else has right now. FFS, this has to be the most toxic part of the Satisfactory community. It's either 100.0000000000% accurate, or it's not worth doing. The gatekeeping here is absurd.

[wind spade]

uhh what?

I just offered a more accurate measurements (and easier to take)

[spice jolt]

No, you used a condescending tone of douchebaggery when I replied that what I had was simple/convenient enough. You didn't like the answer I gave, so you moved to try and belittle me as being some child who had somehow wandered to the adult table. F*cking ridiculous for you to now try and play the victim... 🙄

I'm out of here. This section is ridiculous. No one wants to offer opinions or suggestions; they just want to try and dismiss any idea they didn't have first. I hope some of you eventually find a cure for your insecurities, because they must be absolute hell to live with in their current state...

[wind spade]

uhh what?

I literally just gave my feedback on your method, offered other method and you come at me like if I burned your house or something

[vapid gorge]

I would recommend trying to recognize constructive criticism. You're taking anything vaguely different from what you're taking as absolute fact as some sort of personal attack.
Not that I expect you to as you'll probably see this as an attack.

I've only seen you interact with others for a few hours on this server but you're bristling at everyone including people known to be calm and helpful in the community.

[oblique hollow]

I come back and see blocked messages seemingly hissing at each and every one in here.

Regarding tube cannon precision, the test i did and what this guy did do overlap in the same. order of magnitude for every entrance, just like a few meters off each time.

And when you consider that its a cannon, you REALLY don't need any higher precision

[vapid gorge]

He just seemed to get ticked off at anything that didn't echo whatever he was saying back.

[median heath]

☝️

[vale imp]

From my system I can say as a host from a game: My Cannon catapults me from Grasland Base up to northern Uranium mountain. But if a player joins into the game, the cannon gets me only to like 70% of the range. So I built a system of cannons because I just want to play and don't math it out xD So the math of building up a factory is enough for my brain, I cannot use it to calculate frames and speed for cannons. I am a little jealos for your brains 😄

[mystic moon]

Yeah, I know
Trying to judge the center of the marker isn't that accurate
With scim we could compare accuracy between pcs and different designs of cannon

[oblique notch]

I think that level of accuracy is unnecessary due to the inaccuracies in starting speed.

"Good enough" within a dozen or so meters is fine.

[oblique notch]

Another beautiful example of how it's wildly different results on so many different factors that cannot be entirely controlled.

[indigo hatch]

Is this to much for one node?

[mystic moon]

.... what is THAT

What are you trying to achieve here?

[median heath]

It's your world..
It's your rules..
As we said there is no "too much."

Build what you want to as long as you know why you are building it.

[indigo hatch]

ok

[indigo hatch]

a screw factory

with perfect ratios

[mystic moon]

Why are you splitting that single belt so many times?

[indigo hatch]

well one constructor takes 10 rods when making screws

10 per minute so im splitting them to 3 so i can take away 5 of the rods

its not hard math

[mystic moon]

Do you know what a manifold is?

[oblique hollow]

thats a bit overdoing it for screws

[indigo hatch]

i dont think so

[oblique hollow]

is this the belt for the rods?

[mystic moon]

!wikisearch manifold

[indigo hatch]

im using a pure iron node

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[wind spade]

!wikisearch manifold

[mystic moon]

I win

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[indigo hatch]

ok i dont understand a single thing in the picture

[oblique hollow]

it uses overflow

[indigo hatch]

Yes

[oblique hollow]

splitters split 50/50 (or 1/3rd each with 3 outputs) until a machine is full

then they move excess to the belt that isnt backing up

[indigo hatch]

oh i dont wanna use overflow when the math is easy

[median heath]

You don't want to use the zero-math method when you can do math instead?

[wind spade]

you could have one belt instead of 18

[oblique hollow]

math easy, build complicated

[indigo hatch]

uh

[median heath]

Not doing math is easier than doing math 🤷‍♂️

[indigo hatch]

i was thinking about using 2 nodes

[oblique hollow]

its nice and all but like.... is this more useful than having less belts

[indigo hatch]

but i wont

dont tell me im doing to much for the start...

[oblique hollow]

besides.... a screw factory? will you be transporting screws out of it on a bunch of belts too?

[median heath]

What's your highest belt mk?

[indigo hatch]

2

[oblique hollow]

awful

[median heath]

I would say you're not even at the start yet, so yes you're doing too much.

[oblique hollow]

should have gone for mk 3

[indigo hatch]

well this is a new world and i mostely play on my friends worlds i haven't even gotten tier 4 and 3 yet

[oblique hollow]

screws are a thing you can optimize away later on

so doing them in excess is just painful tbh

[indigo hatch]

i need them for the rotors

[median heath]

Yeah... "doing too much"

[indigo hatch]

and plates if i dont wanna use wire

[oblique hollow]

for the first elevator delivery, you dont need that many rotors / min anyway

[indigo hatch]

i want to produce the smart platings fast

maybe 10 per minute

[oblique hollow]

right but that doesnt need that much. thats 5 assemblers

[indigo hatch]

or i can overclock some

[oblique hollow]

needing 10/min rotors and reinforced plate

[indigo hatch]

not that bad

[oblique hollow]

so 250/min screws for rotors

[median heath]

Oh, we're automating Project Parts...

🏃 💨
All you McGalleon.

[indigo hatch]

i mean i only need 2 assemblers for the plates

[oblique hollow]

right, then the current belt madness above is something i cant really get behind

[indigo hatch]

and 3 for the rotors

okay...

Please don't tell me this is to much storage

[oblique hollow]

storage?

[oblique hollow]

what is that for

every part?

[indigo hatch]

i dont really know yet

maybe for screws

[median heath]

"then why do you build something if you don't know if you need it? 🤔"

[oblique hollow]

hell nah

storing screws is the most useless thing

[indigo hatch]

i dont know i dont remember what i needed it for

i have a bad memory

[oblique hollow]

this thing should store one container of each item, if anything

for YOU, for building

but not really screws

[indigo hatch]

is 3k biomass enough?

[oblique hollow]

more than

[indigo hatch]

6k?

[oblique hollow]

you wont ever need that

[median heath]

Honestly the best advice I can give you right now is "Just play the game."

[indigo hatch]

oh

[oblique hollow]

you will never ever use that much biomass ever

1k or so is already enough to get away from biomass

[indigo hatch]

well i have already used all of it...

[oblique hollow]

how

[indigo hatch]

idk

[oblique hollow]

didnt you turn it into solid biofuel

while you are this early, its probably better to just stuff parts into machine and not do tedious math since almost none of these factories are expected to be permanent

a "big factory" making 15/min reinforced plates is not that big later on
in the early stages dimsnatling this stuff doesnt hurt as much

[wind spade]

pretty much every part needs one container at most (with maybe exception of concrete which can need 2-3)

[indigo hatch]

ok but this is all i have build yet to use biomass

[median heath]

Way too much.

[oblique hollow]

a lot of containers on the left

[indigo hatch]

so i shoudn't use pure nodes?

[oblique hollow]

what do those store

[median heath]

You shouldn't be in T1-2 this long.

[indigo hatch]

thats the ones i showed earlier

[oblique hollow]

focus on progressing to later tiers so you get better tech

[indigo hatch]

well i only have pure nodes...

[oblique hollow]

because being stuck with "low level tech" is painful

[wind spade]

you shouldn't always use the whole node just because you have extra raw materials

automate as much as you need at the moment

[indigo hatch]

and its hard for me to do as much when playing alone

[oblique hollow]

just rig something up real quick. if it uses a full node or not doesnt matter. just MAKE
redesigning is for later on

[indigo hatch]

so thats why i haven't gotten the next tiers

[oblique hollow]

one or 2 assemblers each for reinforced plates, rotors and smart plating

thatll get you to the first delivery in like 30 minutes

[indigo hatch]

i did my first one in like 25 minutes

[oblique hollow]

the very first delivery of 50 plates?

[indigo hatch]

with one assembler for plates i think

[oblique hollow]

well then you are already at a stage where you should be going for coal power

no more biomass

[indigo hatch]

i did that on my other world

[oblique hollow]

oh so not here

[indigo hatch]

i haven't automated reinforced plates or rotros

thats why im building more

[oblique hollow]

ah. well, being stuck with mk 2 belts is a painful part of lower tiers.

[indigo hatch]

i just want someone to play with on my world but when i play with my friends i play on their worlds

thats why im not far into the game yet

[oblique hollow]

understandable

btw, for 10/min smart plating, all you need is 370/min screws

the reinforced plates are rather easy thankfully

[indigo hatch]

ONLY?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[median heath]

You require another person to be able to progress?

[indigo hatch]

kinda

[median heath]

Huh. Interesting.

[wind spade]

the game is normally playable in singleplayer 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

use the to-do list to make smaller milestones for you personally

AND so you remember where you left off

you do know how to use it, right?

[indigo hatch]

well it is for me to its just my feelings that kinda try to stop me when i am alone

yes

but its still hard

its like when im doing something in school

i just dont want to do it and its hard to focus on it

[oblique hollow]

btw, wanna know how i arrived at 370/min screws?

[indigo hatch]

ok

my friend just texted me on steam and said i can play on his world

we are on tiers 5 and 6 there

[indigo hatch]

huh

[oblique hollow]

10/min plating > 120/min screws
10/min rotors > 250/min screws

makes for 370/min

[wind spade]

honestly if you're this lost in the game, I'd recommend you to go play through the game alone first before playing with others and seeking help here

[indigo hatch]

still i dont really understand but i know that one constructor makes 40 screws per minute

thats what i did greeny

none of my friends had this game when i played it

[oblique hollow]

well, heres a math question then:
you see the recipe above.
how many screws per minute do you need to make 10/min reinforced plate

[indigo hatch]

i dont know how many they take per minute

[oblique hollow]

you see it above

[indigo hatch]

i dont have it in mind

[wind spade]

it's all in codex or in the recipe view above

[oblique hollow]

i posted the recipe

[indigo hatch]

120?

[oblique hollow]

yes

now divide that by 40/min to get the number of constructors making screws

[indigo hatch]

divide it by 4?

[oblique hollow]

40

[indigo hatch]

40*

[oblique hollow]

because a constructor makes 40 screws

[indigo hatch]

ok

[oblique hollow]

" I need 120, my machine makes 40, how many machines do i need"

[indigo hatch]

im worst at math

[oblique hollow]

you can remember this trick

[indigo hatch]

oh now i understand

3 machines

[median heath]

Odd choice of game 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

yep. exactly 3

now try the same for 10/min rotors

[indigo hatch]

ok

[frosty owl]

A lot of the challenge of math is all about formulating the issue in a way that's understandable to you.
Learn how to do that, and many issues become much simpler ^^

[indigo hatch]

250?

[oblique hollow]

yep!

aaand how many constructors for screws is that

it will be a decimal

[indigo hatch]

even if you say the same thing but in a diffrent way i sometimes only understand one way

6 and one underclocked

[oblique hollow]

just do the same you did for the reinforced plate.
divide 250 by 40

[oblique hollow]

yep!

so in total, its 3 for the plates and 6.25 for the rotors

for a grand total ooooooffff...?

[indigo hatch]

or just have it do the same amount and split away 30

what

so i use 120 and 250?

[oblique hollow]

ye

[indigo hatch]

yeah thats 370

[oblique hollow]

thats 2 seperate groups of machines you can tend to

3 constructors for the reinforced plates

and the 6.25 for the rotors.
and you can handle their inputs seperately

3 constructors for screws is REALLY nice since thats just 2 constructors making rods

[indigo hatch]

ok

so what do i do in my case?

[oblique hollow]

what do you mean by that

we just discussed how you could get 10/min smart plating

and you now know what you need for that, regarding screws

[indigo hatch]

also my friend did to much storage

for caterium ingots

[oblique hollow]

maniac

tell your friend they are a maniac

[indigo hatch]

i think he started doing it because he saw me stacking them on eachother and putting lifts

and he is afk all the time so its maybe full

[oblique hollow]

monkey see monkey do?
🤣

[indigo hatch]

but i only stack it up to like 3 or 4

you are making me laugh and making me hurt myself

it hurts

what

and ITS TRUE

[oblique hollow]

stop hitting yourself then xD

[indigo hatch]

IM JUST LAUGHING

IT HURTS

[oblique hollow]

"Breaking News: Local User dies of laughter. More at 11"

[indigo hatch]

18:00

[oblique hollow]

right, more at 18:00

sooo right now

[indigo hatch]

18:01

here is another one that my friend made

and look at the compass

[oblique hollow]

your friend is setting high expectations

good

makes it easier to crush them

[indigo hatch]

what

ahh nice, stun rebars forever

count of many it could be...

[wind spade]

and yet you only need one per item

[indigo hatch]

that was not me

it was my friend and almost all of them are full

only one left to go

[wind spade]

you just said you stack them up to 3 😛

[indigo hatch]

i said that it was my friend who did that...

and in that world we are at tier 5 and 6

[wind spade]

[17:58]Hellruky: but i only stack it up to like 3 or 4

that's pretty clearly about you stacking them

[vapid nest]

What do you think about overclocking processing units such as smelters or refineries? In my case, I have one refinery running at .344, wouldn't overclocking one to 1.344 be easier? Or would that be a waste of slugs?

[wind spade]

easier depends on you
it's more power hungry but less space hungry
up to you what you choose

[vapid gorge]

if you don't need them for anything else it's not a waste right?
You can also get infinite slugs by having a doggo farm

[vapid nest]

oh

but is that an exploit or a feature?

[median heath]

Feature.
They bring you random items.

Sometimes that item is a slug.

[vapid gorge]

doggos spawn random items - have lots of doggos and gain many items - infinite slugs over time

It's just that most people don't bother using that many slugs and basically everything else they drop can be easily farmed near infinitely so a doggo farm doesn't have a huuuuge point outside of just wanting one

one of the reasons I just spawned several thousand shards to cut pointless farming time

[vapid nest]

Why make my life hard then when it can be easy. Thanks guys

[median heath]

Doggo farms making infinite slugs possible is also (to me) a perfectly fine justification to spawn yourself a crate full of shards without any guilt 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

and slugs only effectively save you space, at the cost of more power, which is infinite? So largely aesthetic

[vapid gorge]

yeah no worries.

[median heath]

Saving space and FPS is a big plus.

[vapid gorge]

but not involved in the actual production process / gaming mechanics

if slugs lets you produce things you normally couldn't somehow it'd be a different story of course

[median heath]

True.

If I do a fuel setup I spawn a crate because making 200 gens @ 250% is better than making 500 gens imo.

[vapid gorge]

omg yeah, it's one of the reasons why I fiddled with Refined power. I liked the idea of a more modular fuel station and enjoyed the complexity over hundreds of gens.

[median heath]

<insert reply I am not allowed to use>

[vapid gorge]

😛

[vapid gorge]

fiiiine I'll just do this next time #screenshots message

[median heath]

Ok you know I hate clipping...

But that thing...
Is glorious.

[vapid gorge]

do you just hate the sheer volume fuel gens THAT much??

[median heath]

Please tell me you have a nuclear version of that?

[vapid gorge]

... I ... do now?? I'll figure something out

[median heath]

👀

Ping me when you finish it!

[vapid gorge]

well I haven't finished my Ur Rods yet

I don't think Nuclear gens will clip as nicely as fuel gens but I'll give it a shot

like fuel gens seems almost to have been made to be clipped like that

[vale imp]

How is power infinite? There must be a maximum as power needs ressources. Or do I miss something? 🙂

[frosty owl]

There is more (nuclear) power aviable than any possible factory plan can consume

[vapid gorge]

Space is infinite

Though also what Sushi said - your computer will burn before you build a big enough world to consume all the nuclear power you build

[frosty owl]

I didn't say that...
I'd like to think that by overclocking enough it might be possible to build and run a maximized (and undecorated) save 😅

[vapid gorge]

Ehhh the best computers seem to crap out under those massive world builds. The vids I've seen of massive worlds on top computers are a few fps

that's essentially unplayable

[frosty owl]

But do they make logistics optimized and not decorate at all though...?
I always see them end up doing one or both of these things

[vapid gorge]

yeah it was pretty barebones

[median heath]

To give numbers:

Max Nuke is 1.19 TW.
From a single power type.
If you somehow reach that consumption you've still got Fuel Power you can supplement it with, etc.

[wind spade]

to give context to what Sev said above:
maxed production from the whole map (turning everything into as many sink points as possible) uses ~500 GW, so under half of the max possible power production. And that means no more resources are left to do anything (and even that build will probably kill your pc).

To use all of the nuclear power, you'd have to use 700 GW of power on trains, jump pads and other similar things, so pretty much not happening (unless you spam jump pads all over the map)

[median heath]

700 GW of Jump Pads?
Bet.

[ornate shoal]

easier to build particle accelerators, these take 500mw doing nothing

also, overclocked water extractors

[oblique hollow]

Overclocked Resource Wells

especially the Water Wells

Need to use just one of the outputs and it will still consume the whole 150 MW

[frosty owl]

700 GW of Hoverpack.
I'm sure Multiplayer can handle it

[median heath]

[ocean sluice]

how do i 4:3 load balancer?

[deft lichen]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers/detail/index/id/3to4/name/3+to+4

[ocean sluice]

no...
4:3
not 3:4

[deft lichen]

? just mirror it

why would the direction make a difference

[wind spade]

(also just make a manifold or direct input)

[oblique notch]

Basic math seems to be ... well not as nearly well taught as when I was a kid

[median heath]

In my experience it is taught the same, people just don't have the retention because they think they can just google everything when they need to know it.

[wind spade]

google ask here for 100th time

[median heath]

Google it too much effort now apparently. 😄

[ocean sluice]

i mean... balancers are kinda unintuitive

[wind spade]

balancing is kinda pointless

[oblique notch]

its fraction math and ratios and least common denominator and greatest common multiple. its not unintuitive, its just math most people haven't used since high school or probably more accurately its math taught to standardized testing of memorization and not to the why and how it is a universal language and how to apply it to situations not in the text book

[ocean sluice]

i mean... if you really go "YoU SuCk At MaTH GiT GUd"
this is the closest thing i found that is good for balancers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clos_network

[oblique notch]

no, youre over complicating it.

[ocean sluice]

"its fraction math and ratios and least common denominator and greatest common multiple. "
uhh ok and? how does this help?

i'd like to learn doe...
not trying to insult

[oblique notch]

wait.

hold on. I was looking at this as a 4:3 perfect split (ie 4/7ths and 3/7ths split).

A load balancer is even easier. You just have to have each line go to each output.

[wind spade]

direct input is even easier 😄

[oblique notch]

so you have 4 inputs, they need to split each line into 3, A, B, C... then take the A line from each and merge it together.

and repeat with B and C, of course.

[oblique notch]

i donno. less emphasis on the why more on memorization. Less emphasis on how to apply things like fractions and ratios to real world applications.

More highschoolers should play factory games as part of math class :p

[median heath]

less emphasis on the why more on memorization

The entire American education system. 😄

[oblique notch]

unfortunately.

also why i reject 90% of the interviews i give in software... taught what syntax to use. never taught why they use it or how to apply it to anything other than a calculator or a BMI app or something equally stupid.

The amount of people I have hand me a calculator app as an example of their work, that uses floats instead of decimals, and so does not do long chains of multiplication/division correctly is... insane.

[median heath]

I don't think I would ever make a calculator app because... they already exist 😄

[tropic hawk]

Ooh are we making fun of the American Education system?

because the english department is whack

[vapid gorge]

How direct are drone paths? I assume they only avoid natural features right?

[oblique hollow]

They go straight up and then use a big grid for navigation

literally pass over anything

and if not, they phase through it

[vapid gorge]

including buildings??

[oblique hollow]

yes

[vapid gorge]

oh shheeeeeettt... maybe it would go over the sky scraper thats in the way

[vapid gorge]

thanks 😄

[frosty owl]

Split each of the 4 in 3 so you have 12ths
Merge in groups of 4 so you have 3 outputs.

[muted goblet]

Thats probably the easiest explanation i've read

[wind spade]

I'd add the "clock the machines on 3 side to 75% so you have 4:4 so you don't need to balance at all" way

[oblique notch]

I'll add just inject belts onto others with overflow outlets and have full belts for easy counting

[wind spade]

imo even easier counting is "just use what you have on belt"

[frosty owl]

You could literally make the drone port at road-level, surround it with tall buildings (courtyard-style) and expect the drone to fly above the buildings and descend onto the drone port
||I think. I never tried myself, but that's how it should work, as long as the buildings aren't "too tall" ||

[median heath]

Now I want to try having a truck route drive over a drone at the exact take off time just to see what happens.

[lost plover]

is crude oil -> alt: heavy oil residue -> alt: diluted packaged fuel -> fuel generator the best?
polymer resin

I need power and have a free 240/m crude oil free 😄

[median heath]

Best is subjective.

[lost plover]

most power from crude oil*

[solar dome]

bonjour je suis a la recherche de joueur pour du multi francais uniquement merci 😉

[lost plover]

mauvaise discussion

#looking-for-group-old

[solar dome]

desoler :/

[median heath]

Not that simple.

If you mean most power from Fuel from Crude Oil -> then Diluted is the highest conversion, yes.
But many would argue "best" is Diluted, not DPF.
I.E. Wait for T7-8 when you have Blenders.

[median heath]

Also this is an English-only server.

[lost plover]

yeah, but I need power now 😦

[median heath]

Residual is simpler to set up and easier to convert to Diluted.

[lost plover]

heavy oil residue -> fuel?

[median heath]

Oil > HOR > Fuel, yes.

Because later you just delete the Fuel step and replace it with Diluted step.

[lost plover]

that sounds simpler and better for now then, thank you @median heath !

[median heath]

👍

[dense cave]

I had to do packaged fuel and then unpackage it, simply due to the RNG of the recipes

[median heath]

You get Residual when you unlock oil.
There is no RNG there...

[dense cave]

i meant diluted fuel where you get higher efficiency. In my case I only got the packaged one

[median heath]

I wouldn't say you "had to do" though.
Because just go get more drives and keep rolling.
You will eventually unlock everything and have drives left over 🤷‍♂️

[dense cave]

yep, I went on a trek, just couldnt get it and since I needed the power I just dealt with the unpackaging

[modest narwhal]

I am planning my first aluminium refinement area, but i just unlocked the alternate recipe: "2 aluminium scrap to 1 ingot".
I'll get less aluminium per minute (standard recipe 6 to 4 @ 60 p/m, alternate recipe 2 to 1 @ 30 p/m), but it also requires way less infrastructure.

Is it worth using the alternate recipe?

[wind spade]

well that depends on what you value more 🙂

if you like the recipe, go ahead and use it

[median heath]

Worth is subjective to the individual.
The trade-off here is "less product but simpler setup."

That trade is worth to some, and not worth to others.

[modest narwhal]

Thing for me is right now, setting up aluminium doesnt seem easy. but is it worth to get less p/m for the amount of infrastructure needed. I am a new player, so for me it is really difficult to know what is worth and what is not.

[median heath]

We can't answer that because we aren't you.

Build it. If it doesn't do what you need, rebuild it.

Such is the game.

[modest narwhal]

fair enough, ill go with the simple setup

if i find out i require more aluminium i can always change it to the more complicated recipe :D

[median heath]

Or can go find more bauxite and do another simple setup. 🙂

[modest narwhal]

im planning on using these 2

the other one seems a bit far for my likings

but i can always use that one to expand my factory

[median heath]

Oh you need to let go of "far" and embrace logistics.

[modest narwhal]

haha, probably a new player thing i guess

lemme rephrase, it requires to much effort for the amount of extra bauxite i get

[median heath]

Big map.
Best place for different things is spread out.
So networking it all is part of the puzzle.

[median heath]

FICSIT DEMANDS EFFORT.

[modest narwhal]

mmh, maybe for another playtrough, for now i just wanna discover new stuff :D

[modest narwhal]

Heyo, its me again, I'm still designing my aluminium factory. Ive got a problem getting rid of the excess water that is produced when you make aluminum scrap. You get around 105 water p/m. How do i get rid of this excess?

My solution was packaging and sinking it, but that would require me to bring in another train with plastic, it also would make my factory footprint a whole lot bigger.

[opaque oak]

Split the alumina solution production, so you have some of those refineries that run on recycled water and some that run on fresh water?
Or VIP juction (piping manual in pinned posts here).
Or for coal generators, wet concrete or packaging.

[modest narwhal]

OH, recyled water might work!

lemme do maths to see how that would fit in

Yea, that would work, just need some extra space to bring back that water

i would need to supply 450 water

[opaque oak]

And either OC/UC refinery pair, or one extra refinery to get UC/UC.

for the alumina.

https://old.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/wjbf6j/aluminum_water_recycling_split_water_ratio/

[modest narwhal]

yea, and for powering it up i would say add a fluid buffer or smth like that

to fill every refinery

[opaque oak]

No really, it will just start slower.

With the fresh water to alumina to scrap and recycled water filling the other alumina refineries.

and booting the whole system up with time.

[modest narwhal]

ah, thats fine as well

slow start will work

Thank you <3

didnt think of recycling

[median heath]

Recycle it with a VIP junction.
Do not use buffers.

[opaque oak]

VIP or split alumina refineries, both work.
Split production is easier to get working usually, but benefits from scale.

I personally use VIP:s

[cinder silo]

Buffers have caused me so much grief in the past.