math-and-meta

[robust carbon]

I think a multi splitter/merger clipping hulk is far from what typical players might use

I guess it comes down to how casually some things are possible

[uncut jacinth]

clikc on videos, and click on the latest one and it should be done

[zinc crater]

That's awesome. Thanks for link.

[frosty owl]

If you're referring to my message above, there's no need to make big contraptions to load-balance mixed belts. A single programmable splitters can do it (that's what I meant)

[robust carbon]

So basically, if I drone in 4 different materials and want to input those to a Manufacturer with a single belt, what's the simplest way to that without clogging the belt if I get different amounts of resources delivered by drone?

I was under the assumption that requires load-balancing

Keeping in mind that some materials are needed 30/min, some 5/min etc.

[frosty owl]

This, for instance, is a Programmable splitter used to make a load balancer that outputs 1/3 (left) and 2/3 (front), while also filtering for some items (UFRs) that need to go straight.

[frosty owl]

Depends on what you consider simplest.
The "load-balancing" method you posted a picture about earlier allows you to create the input belt once you're provided with belts full of the input items required. This means that as long as you have a stable influx of input, even if you provide too much, the system will keep running and overflow can be dealt with.
The "balanced merging" approach I prefer instead relies on having machines providing exactly the amounts of items/min needed and feeding those to the manufacturer. This doesn't allow for overflow, so underfeeding or overfeeding can cause clogging (the prior method clogs only if underfed)

The second method I mentioned can be achieved using load-balancing too, it's just that clocking machines right can make that part of the logistics trivial (simple merging)

[robust carbon]

Yeah, that's my issue with sushi belts. For me to ever personally use them, there would need to be a way to handle the under and overfeed scenarios.

I love the concept, and the efficiency having it all in one belt when its under 780 required to feed the production, but the caveats outweight the benefits (for me, personally).

[frosty owl]

That requires to use one machine input for every item you wish to have overflow control over.
In other words: you can't reliably overflow from a MIXED INPUT (a mixed belt going directly in a machine input)

[robust carbon]

Hence my wish of a advanced merger:

• Input random sushi belt with hodgepodge of long transmit items into an advanced merger
• Choose which port to use for my programmed sushi output
• Set said output port so that I want exactly 5/min of this, 10/min of that, 40/min of that
• Have one port configurable as priority overflow, that could continue to another advanced merger
• Have one port configurable as secondary overflow, that could output to a sink in case the first overflow is clogged

I could create lovely little drone port factories all over the map, without having separate drone ports for items that ship from the same location.

[median heath]

Sushi Manifolds are incapable of stalling, clogging, or failing.

[robust carbon]

Is there a good example of such a manifold that takes in varying bursts of 4 items and outputs them to a single belt so that there's X/min of one thing, Y/min of other, Z/min of third, and N/min of fourth?

[median heath]

Like you can put the WRONG items on this belt and it will not even care.

[robust carbon]

I made such a thing on my last savegame as intake for my storage area

But even with 780/min belt, it seemed to be working closer to like 400/min, and as far as I could figure the game did not like having ~40 chained smart splitters 😄

[median heath]

We don't (and never will) have exact per-min output splitters. So this is an impossibility.

Not sure why you would need it though.

[robust carbon]

Because I would want to use one

[median heath]

I get want.
I said not sure why you would need.

They over trivialize the intended belt puzzles though, so they won't exist.

[median heath]

Sushi manifold.
Because it cannot clog.

1 smart per input.
Overflow gets pushed through.

[frosty owl]

If you're worried about smart or programmable splitters missbehaving when using many of them... don't
I dunno if there's any noticeable effect on FPS due to "overusing" them instead of normal splitters, but I only ever heard one person complain about that and I couldn't verify their claim

[frosty owl]

*1 belt
One isn't forced to use one smart splitter per machine input

[robust carbon]

That was actually on a dedicated, in SP there was no hiccup.

Dedicated was tied to 30 tick rate, and meddling with configuration to increase tick rate almost negated the issue

[frosty owl]

Multiplayer can bring up a lot of weird issues...

[robust carbon]

Yup

[median heath]

If you do 1 smart per input you avoid his issue entirely though.

[frosty owl]

Same as if you do one belt per input. It's just that one implies that you can't use 2 or 3 splitters per machine rather than 4, for some reason

[robust carbon]

Crude example: to have a single drone port in location X that is receiving items from 4 drone ports. The items will arrive in bursts and always be of a single type. I'd output from said port via an advanced splitter and have still just a single belt, but with correct mix of item amounts perfect for the production I'm doing. The overflow would be directed to a sink, or different machines depending of want.

The way I do it now is having drone port per item, connected to belts that take them to an intermediary storage and then inputting from there to production via manifolds again. Tested and true way.

This is a long message already, but to arrive at a point: The method I currently use is so simple that it's almost impossible to make mistakes with. The sushi ways I've looked into are the exact opposite, manageable, but seem so complex that mistakes and figuring them out can become a chore.

I guess my real want is that there would exist some in-between way to spice things up, without going from one extreme to another.

[median heath]

Sushi Manifolds are not complex. And are insanely easy to set up now that we have copy/paste splitter settings.

[robust carbon]

Yeah my og-storage was train station connected to 3 industrial storages, that outputted to a single 780 belt, that was split by ~40 smart splitters so that left/right was specified items, and middle was any undefined. About at halfway done I started noticing the further the line goes, the more the items froze for a small while before exiting the smart splitter.

[median heath]

Like why deal with lining lifts up for steel when you can just do this:

[median heath]

Any Undefined is the issue there.

[robust carbon]

I tested Any as well and made a loop, no difference, also overflow

[median heath]

Overflow...

Depending on how you did the loop that would be the next place I would look.

Sinking overflow is the simplest.
If you're going to loop, you have to account for that.
Usually with a buffer but at a minimum you need 1 more smart where you're injecting the loop so it can't lock the system.

[frosty owl]

And you observed this in multiplayer, correct?
So you're looking for a sushi solution specifically for multiplayer?

I mean, that sort of behaviour isn't an issue in single player

[median heath]

Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix.

[robust carbon]

I'm merely chatting, these days I'm playing only SP, but I haven't tried sushi belts since MP, correct.

[robust carbon]

You misunderstood the setup, I probably explained poorly

[frosty owl]

Well, whenever wishing for overflow, manifold is the way (sushi or not).
Single input sushi feeds (SIS) all have the pitfalls we discussed earlier

[median heath]

If your setup is feeding machines off a single of their input slots, that's Ven's department 😁

If you would like to try sushi again in SP I recommend starting with my method and once you trust it again branch into more advanced wizardry.

[robust carbon]

780 belt in the middle, each center box was smart splitter that took specific item to the storage container on the left/right

I tested all the possible options for the center output: any undefined, overflow and any (with looping the belt around back to start)

the more I added splitters and storages, the more the center belt started to choke

[oblique hollow]

probably pre-smart splitter and belt optimization done in U7

[median heath]

And I apologize but now that I know this was done in multiplayer, that's the only factor that matters to me 🤷‍♂️

[robust carbon]

and yeah, I haven't tested the setup in SP, but on dedicated it wasn't working as I assumed it would, until I increased the tick rate of the server via engine.ini

it was on u7 though

[oblique hollow]

then i blame server for being server

[median heath]

Multiplayer fucks over basic things that work just fine.
That's why we always ask people to lead with that clarification when asking for help.

[robust carbon]

Yeah, my failure for not saying that outright

I think I'll do some testing on my SP save when I start to work on my new central storage later this week 👌

[median heath]

Stops us from having to troubleshoot as much because the answer is as simple as "Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix."

[robust carbon]

Finished phase four, and I have a ton of small factories that sink anything that did not fit into 8 industrial containers plus drone port. And as the containers in all small factories are starting to be full, I'm going to drone the mats to a central storage instead of sinking them

If I can make a nice sushi solution there, it means I can create a pretty clean setup there 👌

[frosty owl]

Well, you should have all the info needed for that ^^

[robust carbon]

Aye, at least I know where to start. I know you sushi experts can help me if I hit a snatch

[frosty owl]

Aye. Don't fear throwing an @ if need arises

[median heath]

@iftheneedarises

@frosty owl not a person 😉

[young viper]

hey 🙂 if i need to hook up 4 smelters to a 120/min miner, i should split the miner output and then split it again so 4x30/min arrive evenly split at each smelter right?

[deft lichen]

you can manifold

[young viper]

havent tested this properly but i would assume that splitting 3 ways the first time and then again would leave 1 smelter underfed

[deft lichen]

if it's a multiple of 2 or 3, you can balance, but that's not space-efficient

[young viper]

could you elaborate? i just started a few days ago 😄

[deft lichen]

eventually, the oversupplied smelters fill up, and will only take whatever they actually use

this allows you to have 1 splitter per machine

each splitter splits between its own machine and the next splitter in line

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[deft lichen]

benefits over balancing are

• trivial to build
• works with any amount of buildings (see injected manifold)
  downside is
• longer startup time

[wind spade]

it wouldn't because the other ones are overfed, so the materials will overflow eventually (same as with manifold)

[young viper]

ive had this happen for my coal plant that ive hooked up like shown in the regular manifold and it filled up because im not at 100% usage cap. but so far ive put containers after my important lines and they rarely back up when i match their efficiencies

[wind spade]

containers are usually not recommended

unless for storage for personal use

[young viper]

how come? if i have a large line that builds steel beams or reinforced plates, usually 1) the last step such as smart plating is super inefficient and 1 of the 2 inputs backs up and 2) it saves me having to build a dedicated line to make that material for personal use

[young viper]

ill give that a try. ease of construction might actually win out just because its starting to become really complex

[deft lichen]

make sure your production always matches consumption

[wind spade]

because you never want to have extra in your production line 🙂

[young viper]

i do for 95% of things

[deft lichen]

don't put a container at the end - it won't work

soon, you'll unlock a reliable way to send excess resources to a container (hint: MAM)

[young viper]

ah okay so i should get into the habit because of something i havent unlocked yet, got it 😄

[young viper]

theyre usually not at the very end but right before the step where i cannot match efficiencies well because resources or space are short. that way stuff that i actually frequently use like (reinforced) iron plates, rotors, steel beams production doesnt just stop if the output is too much, and i can use that to build elsewhere without needing a new line to make more 🤷 worked out so far, but ill keep that in mind

[deft lichen]

have you unlocked overclocking yet?

[young viper]

yes

[deft lichen]

you can underclock (or, well, overclock) machines so that the total production and consumption is an exact match

[young viper]

i did but its still not working out

ill give you an example

[wind spade]

changing how much a machine produces so that it fits into your production nicely

[elder cypress]

It causes your building to build slower and use less power.

I like to underclock when I need a fraction of a building instead of overclocking a building.

[wind spade]

or saving power

but ratio adjustment is imo the more important thing

[young viper]

oh whoops @deft lichen, looks like i deconstructed that part of the first base already. but it basically boiled down to Rotors needing 20 iron rods + 100 screws to make. i already underclocked the Rotor to 75% for 15 rods 75 screws and overclocked the screw line to produce 60, but i only had mk1 belts and wouldnt have been able to match the 75 screws either way. so i put a container in that line to save rods while waiting on screws

[deft lichen]

the only solution is to underclock the assembler to use 60 screws/min

[young viper]

but then id have to underclock the iron rods as well and its smelter and at that point ore is backing up. so there isnt really a nice, satisfying solution 😟

[deft lichen]

oh, multiple assemblers

each having up to 60 screws/min

[young viper]

nvm, i could underclock the ores as well. i guess it would work, just a whole lot of tweaking numbers

[wind spade]

underclock miner as well and no ore backing up

[deft lichen]

it IS possible to have a completely lossless production line, it just takes quite some clock tweaking

[elder cypress]

Mk2 belts.

[young viper]

don't know if i'd rather have extra crafting materials saved up somewhere instead of mathing out the entire line right in the beginning

[young viper]

wasnt available that early

[deft lichen]

point is not lack of mk2 belts, you're just going to run into the same issue before having mk3 belts

[elder cypress]

I quickly pushed to new belts every time I could.

[young viper]

at this point it becomes a building space vs energy usage decision i guess. containers arent very space efficient and have a horrible grid but at least you have some stuff on the side. whereas when youre starting in the desert without biomass you should probably underclock everything tightly. although i havent played there yet

[deft lichen]

in my play style, I try to never ever have number mismatches
rather than a rotor line backing up to "make crafting materials", I build a 100% efficient production line and then another 100% efficient line for those crafting parts

which desert doesn't have biomass?

[young viper]

sorry, less biomass

[deft lichen]

in dune desert just walk to the closes oasis

there is more than plenty, you just have to... walk 😄

[young viper]

😄

youre very right. i dont think ive played a week yet and this is my take on things yet, not claiming its the correct solution

[deft lichen]

experimenting and figuring out how stuff works is the fun part

[young viper]

building another line just for parts early would strain energy i reckon. i started in grass fields and settled mostly in the southern areas with the big lake in the far east and the pure coal on that little floating peninsula to the south and early on im super stretched for biomass, even in that location

[deft lichen]

I'm not telling you to play like I do, play how you find it fun!

[young viper]

oh absolutely, not looking up stuff and just optimising as you go along is great fun in this game

[deft lichen]

imo power is the least significant limiting factor
once you get coal, stack up those generators

32-48 coal generators? why not

[young viper]

yeah right now power is free

[elder cypress]

Short on biomass? Kill the xeno. Fuel the industry.

[deft lichen]

power generators can be far away from your factories because you just need to run a power line back, no need to ship parts

[young viper]

but that whole rotor, reinforced plate, smart plating resource allocation nightmare was built entirely on solid biomass insanity

so 'just building an extra line' would have meant getting even more of that, and i was already burning out constantly 😄

[open bolt]

Parts for a new factory, a lot more then I was expecting

[signal nimbus]

And a lot less than you'll need.

[open bolt]

IK but wasn't expecting that much currently. I expect I will need 400-500 extra Encased Industrial beams, 750-1000, 500-1000 Concrete and iron plates

Not including all the storage I will need

[kindred spoke]

Biomass isn’t really an issue with the chain saw

I shit you not every time I play I always end up having like 30-40 generators

And it’s always been fine

[frosty owl]

When people tell about how they want to use all Uranium on the map in the post where they ask wether overclocking a oil extractor would allow them to produce more power than the overclock would consume...

[frosty owl]

I like hunting for biomass the most. If you know the spwn points for mobs it's super convenient

[strong granite]

Anyone ever had a miner randomly yellow light on and off whilst connected to power and not backing up?

[tropic hawk]

wdym without backing up? there was no resources in the miner whatsoever?

[strong granite]

Correct

It just stops mining intermittently for no reason

[tropic hawk]

sounds like a bug. collect data and send a report on the Q&A site

[strong granite]

What’s odd is that I read a forum post where someone had a similar issue and they were able to fix it by deleting and rewiring the power. I have 3 miners on the same circuit and 2 of them suffer this problem. The power then runs FROM THERE to the other miner….. 🤯

[mystic moon]

@strong granite are you wearing a hoverpack?

[strong granite]

Yes I was

I restarted the game and it doesn’t appear to be happening….

[mystic moon]

Do you have power switches?

[strong granite]

Yes

[mystic moon]

That's your issue

When wearing a hoverpack and it switches grids, it'll cause machines on the grid to quickly go idle like you're describing

[strong granite]

I don’t think it was causing the issue though because i noticed the issue due to a lack of throughput a quarter of the way across the map.

And all my switches rn are on so they should share a grid I believe

[mystic moon]

I thought your miners weren't backing up?

[strong granite]

They weren’t

But they weren’t putting out their maximum output

[mystic moon]

That won't cause them to go idle

[strong granite]

Exactly

[river tusk]

maybee this is a dumb question but i'm going to ask it anyway,why aren't the hover packs running on thiere own power scource?

[mystic moon]

If the output buffer isn't full they don't idle

[mystic moon]

BRUH
I KNOW
I'm telling you it was the hoverpack

[scenic gull]

Rate my Turbofuel setup

[strong granite]

But what you’re not understanding is the reason I investigated them at all is because from a quarter of the way across the map I wasn’t getting the 600x2 ores/min from the train.

[mystic moon]

Ah
Any chance it was because they were temporarily idling?

[strong granite]

Yes that’s why but I can’t imagine how it could be caused by a hover pack from across the map.

There’s only one circuit over there

[mystic moon]

Do you do universal grids?

Hmm, ok

Maybe not related, just that your issue sounds an awful like what happens from hoverpack

[strong granite]

But restarting the game seems to have corrected it.

[river tusk]

technicaly as a hover pack souldn't that be using it's own fuel scource so as not to take away from other factory manufacturing?

[strong granite]

All is well now. Flying all around the miners with my hoverpack. I’m just glad I didn’t have to reroute the power line over here.

[river tusk]

that's a very strange bug hopefully they adress that soon

[mystic moon]

It's probably pretty low priority, as it doesn't really cause issues. It's just weird

[river tusk]

but again nothing sould be interfearing with your main assembly line but if it doesn't realy bother anyone else i guess it souldn't realy bother me either though i tend to be a bit picky about things like that

[median heath]

Not a problem if you don't have a singular main assembly line 😉

[river tusk]

this type of counter could help a ton for the storage bins and locolized computer readouts

[wind spade]

why the polymer resin alt?
(also why turbofuel and not nuclear 😛 )

[mystic moon]

That kind of logic will probably not be added

[river tusk]

'that's a shame,I do enjoy being able to keep track of my stock that way

[median heath]

Can also just press F and look at amounts in every bin...

[river tusk]

true but always loved being able to display my goods and amounts in other factory games most acurately with a digital readout (also makes it a bit more realistic)

[scenic gull]

I’d like to have small Turbofuel factory for jetpack and vehicles 🙂
And I’m also too noob for nuclear. Just started Tier 5 and making plueprints for everything

[median heath]

Will most likely not be coming to this title outside of mods.

[median heath]

Jetpack does not run on Turbo.

[wind spade]

diluted fuel is imo easier to make and is enough to get you to nuclear, so I wouldn't waste time with turbofuel 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hawk]

FICSIT Networks may be the mod for you

[strong granite]

I was thinking wiremod

[scenic gull]

Really?!

[median heath]

Do you have the chainsaw?
Does it run on anything other than Solid Biofuel?

Why did you think the Jetpack would operate differently?

[scenic gull]

Jetpack runs on liquid fuel. Turbo is liquid

[river tusk]

technicaly speaking more advanced tech would mean more advanced fuel

[median heath]

Jetpack runs on Fuel.
Turbo is not Fuel.
Turbo is Turbo.

[wind spade]

jetpack runs on packaged fuel only

[scenic gull]

I also checked on wiki, should work

[median heath]

If the wiki says Jetpack runs on Turbo then someone needs to fix that shit.

[wind spade]

the wiki says it won't tho

It will not (currently)[2] work with Packaged Turbofuel or Packaged Liquid Biofuel

[scenic gull]

Can’t I pack turbo?

[median heath]

Jetpack runs on Fuel.
Turbo is not Fuel.
Turbo is Turbo.

[wind spade]

if you pack turbofuel, it's called "packaged turbofuel", not "packaged fuel"

[tropic hawk]

you can. I can give you anecdotal evidence that PTF does not work on jetpacks

[scenic gull]

[median heath]

They might change it so that the Jetpack runs on Turbo.
It is actually very possible.
But it has not been implemented yet.

[river tusk]

actualy though if it was a fuel i would say rocket fuel but this game doesn't realy do anything with rocket science yet

[wind spade]

wiki also literally says it doesn't work, so idk where you read that you can use turbofuel with jetpack

[median heath]

There were limitations prior that made it not possible.
Those have been removed, so now it is seeing if they change it 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

(but would be good to send the link so that we can edit it)

[tropic hawk]

yet... yet...

[median heath]

Personally, if they make the Jetpack take multiple fuel types my first test is going to be seeing what fuel types the chainsaw can use 🙂

[river tusk]

maybee evan add a diesel fuel to the game if they don't allready have it for trucks and trains that is

[tropic hawk]

i kinda want all things that consume fuel (other than generators) to be able to consume all fuel types, just for fun

[tropic hawk]

trucks can run on most packaged oil products (HOR, Crude, Fuel, Turbo) and all trains are electric

[river tusk]

ok sounds reasonable then

[median heath]

But why?

[river tusk]

just more realizim is all

[tropic hawk]

some people have unrealistic wishes for this game (I desperately want oil tankers and cargo ships for coastal logistics...)

[median heath]

Multi-thousand ton buildings can float in mid air with no support.... 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

how much realism do you want from a game that's set in the future and has pocket dimensions and space elevators

[median heath]

Smol boat I would not be opposed to tbh.
Purely restricted to coastlines though.

[tropic hawk]

physics would make this game MUCH more interesting (and also eat an exponential amount of power)

[river tusk]

reascource wise if they can do it why not?

[median heath]

I pretend physics exists.
Played too much Valheim.

Also holy crap Heavy Flexible Frame is not as bad as I originally thought...

[tropic hawk]

I would want like a skiff for the pioneer to drive around water in, and have massive slow boats (like 10m/s tops) that have extreme cargo capacity to make up for it

[tropic hawk]

so long as you have all the recycled alts and the ones that complement it

[river tusk]

i did see mention of possible underwater builds in future installments so who knows?

[tropic hawk]

was that the ChatGPT joke video?

[median heath]

Per the devs "This isn't Subnautica"

[river tusk]

wait a joke video?why would they do that?

[median heath]

Well @wind spade made a calc that even in using Heavy Encased doesn't bring Coal in at all, lmao.
It purely uses Oil, Lime, and Iron.

If you switch that to Heavy Flexible it trades:
+800 Oil
-1000 Iron
-1350 Lime

[tropic hawk]

because its funny. they literally said in the video that it was a joke

[tropic hawk]

whats the total change in WP?

[river tusk]

and doesn't have to be subnautica to work there are no wrong answers here when it comes to ways of improoving tech

[median heath]

(I don't know because I don't care about WP at all)

[tropic hawk]

spell check would be nice

[median heath]

You already can build underwater though...

[river tusk]

then it souldn't be hard to encode something like that baisicly you just ad a level of controll to craft in the water same as you would with vehicles on land and drones

[median heath]

Ok but why?

And "why not" is not the answer.

[river tusk]

again more options and a bit more realism i don't know why would you add anything to a fasctory game about automations for even more automation options maybee to keep it a bit more interesting?

[median heath]

Are you saying the current game is uninteresting?

[wind spade]

building underwater factory and realism don't really go together well

[river tusk]

not at all but if you can improove it wouldn't you want to??

[median heath]

Define "improve."

[wind spade]

ficsit wants most efficient workers, those who build underwater wouldn't be much efficient

[river tusk]

more ways of transporting goods i dunno

[median heath]

Do we need more ways?

[wind spade]

trains
belts
drones
vehicles

seems good enough 🤔

[tropic hawk]

why do you keep spelling improve with two o's?

[median heath]

impruv*

[river tusk]

it's a factory game about assembly you can always use more ways like maybee controlled cargo ships or something of the like

[wind spade]

you have

• simple but costly
• easy but low throughput
• complex but high throughput
• mediocre but no infrastructure needed

is good enough imo

ships would be pretty much useless given how little waterways there are on the map

[median heath]

And we're back to "Why?"
What you're asking for takes time and resources and people to make happen.
So there has to be a reason to allocate all of those things to making it.

[river tusk]

that's realy a shame because if the planet had more water that actualy wouldn't be a bad idea

[wind spade]

I don't think they would do large changes to a map to justify a new feature

[river tusk]

again that is a shame because it's such a usefull way for transporting goods irl

[median heath]

...

[river tusk]

sorry maybee it seems like i am asking a bit much here but i've also worked improoving every aspect of my own game so please forgive my ignorance if i don't quite see the signifigance of things here

[wind spade]

except we're not irl

we're on alien planet and our goal is to just extract resources

we don't need nice things, we need efficient things

[median heath]

i've also worked improoving every aspect of my own game

You modded the game.
So your perspective on what is/is not good for the base game is skewed.

[river tusk]

that maybee so but how many actual factories have you worked in i was in one for 10 years learning how the automation and testing systems worked thiere is allot more that goes into it then one would think

[median heath]

This is relevant to a fictional, space-faring, other-planet video game... how?

[river tusk]

just saying regardless if it's space or rl you can't argue with the fact that a factory automation is a factory automation regardless of how you look at it

[wind spade]

imagine how much the industry changed in last 100 years... now imagine how much the industry will change in following hundreds of years (since the game is pretty much set in future)

basing your suggestions on "we do it this way IRL" is weird

[median heath]

And we are going to my signature phrase now:

If you believe the devs made the game wrong, there is an entire discord of people waiting to you meet you:

[shadow prairie]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @median heath

[river tusk]

yes i get it nasa space exploration is an eventuality for all if they are able to continue the space program scientists would like to colonize other planets allready

[proven hamlet]

ANGRY WALRUS NOISES @carmine lion

[mystic moon]

Please don't ping the coffestainers

[oblique hollow]

why'd you ping Ben

[proven hamlet]

walrus

[carmine lion]

err

wat

[mystic moon]

👋 Hi Ben
Since you're here

[mystic moon]

By this response I'm assuming there was no context to the ping lol

[median heath]

Alpaca beats Walrus.
Ez.

[ocean sluice]

When do fluid trains become better / worse than solid trains?
like the math... or at which point

[mystic moon]

Basically when nitrogen

[ocean sluice]

or else?
i wanna transport O I L

[median heath]

??

[wind spade]

better/worse in what?

[mystic moon]

Nitrogen is pretty much always better to package and transport as far as effeciency goes

[ocean sluice]

throughput obiv?

[mystic moon]

Throughput just depends on how many cars you want to build

[wind spade]

throughputs of solid and fluid trains are basically equal

[median heath]

Nitrogen = Always Package and Ship
Liquids = Either way is basically equal.

[median heath]

3200 can be carried in Freight, but you need another car to take the Empty Canisters back.
So you need 2 cars for 3200.
Whereas a Fluid Car can carry only 1600.
Meaning you also need 2 cars for 3200.

Nitrogen has a 4x compression ratio though, so packaging is always better.

[young viper]

were you hinting at smart/programmable splitters here? 🙂

hey 🙂 in the case of steel pipes, the constructor says 2 Steel Pipes (20/min). Does that work out to 40ppm because it produces 2 or is the ppm description literal?

[wind spade]

the ipm is final, you don't multiply it anymore

[young viper]

great, that makes it much clearer in all cases 👌

also, if i have a miner and my line needs 2.66 constructors, is there difference between underclocking all of them vs just the last one in line?

[wind spade]

if you underclock all, you'll use slightly less power (but need to do some math on how much clock speed each of them needs)
if you underclock last, you'll use slightly more power, but math on clock speed is easy (2x100% + 1x66%)

[ocean sluice]

wrong channel?
(also ultrakill reference?)

[lost mortar]

no, hampter

[wind spade]

So, wrong channel.

[fierce cypress]

^ not for #satisfactory-memes either

[deft lichen]

yes

[sullen mulch]

I did the math for working out the number of freight cars needed for a nearly 4 minute round trip and it comes out to just 1 carriage, just seems weird

[deft lichen]

could be

how many items/min?

[sullen mulch]

600

just a uranium train, but it just doesn't sound right even though I'm pretty sure it is

I might actually just have one big train go between all 3 nodes instead so I don't have 3 tiny trains

[slim lichen]

how should i divide 5 conveyor belts (at max capacity) into 6 inputs?

[wind spade]

well one way is to only have 5 inputs (overclock) 🙂

[dark sedge]

You can split each into six branches and use mergers at every input, but it's not space efficient

[wild sage]

whats 3+1?

[olive ember]

is there any fix for valves letting too much liquid through?

[wind spade]

#off-topic-general

[wind spade]

yeah, not using valves for limiting flow (it's pointless and does not work properly)

[olive ember]

it's not pointless in my case

I have an aluminum setup which recycles some water from the electrode aluminum scrap back into the sloppy alumina

but the refineries producing aluminum scrap couldn't produce any more because their water output was full

[wind spade]

for that you don't want to limit flow, but to prioritise flow

[olive ember]

then how do I do that?

[wind spade]

see pipeline manual in pins

VIP junction specifically

[olive ember]

I don't really have the space for that

actually, I think I just found a spot where it might fit

[wind spade]

I mean map is pretty much infinite, I doubt you've used significant portion of it

for valves, I recommend not using them anywhere, they have a very limited range of usecases and most people won't ever need one

[olive ember]

I have a standardized factory with guidelines one where I'm allowed to build what

they're self-induced restrictions

[wind spade]

that's fair, but VIP junction has like same space as few valves would have 🤷‍♂️

[olive ember]

well yeah, but I need to move the water input to a different spot, the most preferable spot already has a conveyor above it

but I found another spot where it should still work

there, the refineries in the back are electrode aluminum scrap, the vertical pipe is the water input and to the right is sloppy alumina

(that valve at the bottom is only there to prevent backflow btw)

[wind spade]

yeah no need to do that either

valves only prevent backflow from one end of valve to another

so any other part of pipe can still have backflow

better solution is to loop the pipe from one end to another

[olive ember]

oh well

it works now, everything is at 100% and no water is backing up in the outputs

and the following factories are ramping up to 100% right now

[wild sage]

its math

[wind spade]

not related to satisfactory tho

[wild sage]

yes it is I need to figure out what 3+1 is for my build bro

[wind spade]

then ask the question related to satisfactory

[wild sage]

it is

[wind spade]

in the satisfactory context

[wild sage]

Whats 3+1 guys?

its for my build

[wind spade]

please specify for what you need that

[wild sage]

for my build

[wind spade]

I mean what concretely

[wild sage]

I just need to know what 3+1 is pal

[wind spade]

(and honestly if you don't know answer to your question, then Satisfactory is not a game for you)

either you're a troll and then please stop before moderators get involved, or you legit don't know and then you should re-evaluate your education level before getting into this game

[muted goblet]

Its 6

[wild sage]

Really? That answer sounds wrong are you sure?

[wind spade]

as sure as it's on topic 🤷‍♂️

[wild sage]

Alright man am gonna believe you I guess I have to man thanks!

[ocean sluice]

wait why is it pointless? (just wondering)

[wind spade]

• valves do not reliably allow flow exact to the limit set by player
• valves have only limited amount of values they can have (even though you can set different ones as well)
• for vavles to let max possible amount through, the pipe before it must be full (and even then it may behave weirdly)
• you want to have full pipes everywhere anyway (full pipes happy pipes)
• for "preventing backflow", it's much better to just loop the pipe and accept that backflow will be there always, no matter what you do

[lost mortar]

No right channel

[wind spade]

ummm, not really. Wanna take it to moderators to ask them?

[lost mortar]

No, sorry

[fierce ruin]

how much fuel does a 250% Overclocked fuel gen burn a second?

shit nvm

[wind spade]

0.5

[signal jungle]

quick question about t1 pipes, and what they show. I have 3 refineries, stock 3x60 (180m3/m) connected to my very long oil pipeline, but the pipe flow rate seems to be around 140-298m3/s is this the fluctuations of not consistent consumption and I can safely plug in 2 more refineries?

[oblique hollow]

it averages 180/min

120/min more is.... possible but not ideal

[oblique notch]

The flow rate is showing them combine amount flowing in both directions on that pipe segment. Do not use that for determining how much you can consume. Use the machines and what they produce and consume that or less

[weak saddle]

why is this block sign on until another train arrives in the station

[fierce cypress]

show more of the track past it, there will be a train in that block

[fierce cypress]

you havent signalled your entire system

its all just one massive block

thats your problem

there are assumedly 2 trains on the system

[weak saddle]

thats the only place the two trains combine though

[median heath]

Signals are an all-or-nothing commitment.
You either signal the entire system, or you do not.

[weak saddle]

i added block signs to all other stations but still stuck there

[median heath]

What about the rails between the stations?

Because "the entire system" does not mean "just the stations.

[weak saddle]

the only place they conjoin is at that one station though both rails only have 1 train on them

[median heath]

the only place they conjoin is at that one station

This is completely irrelevant.

The way that signals and trains work is you either signal the entire system, or you don't.

It does not care if there are only a few places or not.
This is how it works.
So you either build what the system requires or you continue to have issues.
Up to you,.

[weak saddle]

do you need to use path signals or can you just use block

[median heath]

Block Signals cover over 90% of use-cases.
So just use them and then if you have issues it is worth looking at Paths.

[hollow zenith]

Path is just for intersections (I think)

[median heath]

They have more uses than that.

[fierce cypress]

you can also do intersections with block only

check the signalling guide on reddit (by sev ^^) for more in depth info - pinned in #old-questions-and-help

[weak saddle]

thanks for the help, my trains are flowing smoothly

[left fractal]

hi guys im just dead from math can someone help me

1200 raw quartz
1200 / 22.5 = 53.3333333
i got 53 machine that run as 100%

how to do the math of the last one

if i set it to 33%

7.425

53 * 22.5 = 1192.5
1192.5 + 7.425 = 1199.925

this isnt 1200

[potent wharf]

It should be 7.5

Not 7.425

[left fractal]

oh 😐 i just figured out need to be set as 33.3333%

[potent wharf]

Yeah, you also can set the value of the rate for the output to 7.5

[left fractal]

yeah that what math says im use only the .33 most of time

so i was confuse

[left fractal]

how so

it i set this it will counsume less

[muted goblet]

U can type in plain values into the overclocker

Both for percentage and parts per minute and i calculates the other for itself, so If u enter 7.5 it should say 33.3333% when hitting enter

[median heath]

Just keep in mind that 33.3333% != 1/3

[obsidian breach]

Man, this is the first time ive actually planed out a serious production line for super pc's and turbo motors but im completely stuck. Ive layed out all lines for quickwire, aluminum and so on, but i have no idea where to start to distribute parts for components. Any tips from someone who may have been in the same spot?

[spare osprey]

If i have 4 refineries doing Alumina Solution which need 180 m^3 of water / minute / each meaning a total of 180*4 = 720 m^3 of water every minute. Shouldn't 4 water extractors producing 480 m^3 be enough if i also have two Aluminium Scrap refineries producing the remaining 240 m^3?

I did exactly this https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_AluminumIngot_C"%3A"480"} But I'm jsut not getting enough water in my refineries

[obsidian breach]

Its a hard task to reuse the water in an efficient way that doesn't ruin flow rate so best is to not use the reuse the water at all, at least from my experiences. What you could do is to take all water, including the water extractor water, and take it to some big buffers acting as a water tower. However, keep in mind that you need the first 180*4 water in the first place to get everything going.

[spare osprey]

Ideally i want to reuse the water as i have this tiny pond for the extraction of water

[obsidian breach]

fully overclocked, that wont be a problem. Isnt there more water sources nearby?

[spare osprey]

I don't need to overclock them

And no there isn't any nearby, i'd have to transport it by train if that was the case

And you seem to be right. Trying to reuse the water was a bad idea

[obsidian breach]

The problem i had wasnt the water, it was the flow rate. If you want to you could try to do as i said before and make a water tower with a few big buffers which you let fill up before starting the refineries, but the safest bet is to not reuse at all. Use the water for something else like concrete or something.

[spare osprey]

wait i can use water for concrete

I guess i'm gonna have to go on a hard drive run

[median heath]

If you want to recycle the water back into the system just build a VIP junction.

[spare osprey]

I'm not familiar with the term VIP junction

Enlighten me :p

[obsidian breach]

Oh yeah, i never thought about that..

[median heath]

Link to the entire piping manual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MdZ8Xr8P_SF_FL7B6WDjCZGS-x9Cwt-x/view

Basically:
Recycled water in the bottom pipe so it has priority to be used over injected water from the top pipe.

It also doesn't have to be copy/paste of the image, but you may wish to start there until you get the hang of them.

I.E. this is one of mine.

Bottom pipe has priority.

[spare osprey]

That's very clever actually

So i put my water extractors on the top and the output of water from the refineries on the bottom so the prio is the refineries

Would that be correct?

[median heath]

Something as ugly as this also works:

[median heath]

Yes. The last photo I posted is doing exactly that, in the aluminium chain.

[spare osprey]

That's an awesome mechanic tbh

[median heath]

VIPs and VOPs both work well in their respective use-cases.

[spare osprey]

VOP?

[median heath]

Variable Output Priority
vs
Variable Input Priority

I.E. "Fill this pipe first before sending fluid elsewhere"

Simplest example is the standard Overflow Junction.

Where you only get stuff over the hook after the main pipe fills.

Read the piping manual I linked.

[simple swallow]

That blue goes hard

[obsidian breach]

Do anybody have any opinions about this?

[median heath]

Outposting.

Like if you're doing base Supers:

You're already building Computers somewhere.
You're likely already building HSCs somewhere.

So just make AILs and Plastic on-site and import the other 2.

Instead of trying to figure it out from ore-to-product all in 1 line.

[obsidian breach]

I have computers, but in very low amounts. So you mean i should prioritize like a few components and not everything?

[median heath]

I would say increase your Comps production at that outpost to meet the export demand of Supers for starters.

[obsidian breach]

okeyy...

Its a whole coast, but i guess 400 comps per min hasnt hurt anyone... or

[median heath]

What do you need 400 for?

Like I make 270...
180 goes to Supers
45 goes to RCUs
45 goes to Storage.

(and that's me sending 45/min of both RCUs and Supers straight to Storage)

[spare osprey]

Would this be correct ? Lower pipe being the water form refineries

[median heath]

Oh that's going to have issues...

[obsidian breach]

Yeah, i was exaggerating. But i think i could produce more than that on that whole coast alone

[median heath]

Produce what you need is always my motto.
Don't make things just for the sake of it, always have a target and goal in mind.

[obsidian breach]

I always try to keep pipes below and conveyors above.

[median heath]

^ That is not where I see issues happening.

Assuming green is the very first injection point of the VIP, nothing in red should even exist.

It's a single junction.
Not a chained one.

So track all the way to where you are first injecting outside water, keep that, and delete everything after.

[spare osprey]

Okay i reamde it

Green being from my waterpumps, red being from refineries

[median heath]

Water doesn't come from pumps, but yes.

Initially the injected water will run the system but eventually the recycled water takes over priority.
At which point you can turn down the clock speed on the Extractors if you want, but it isn't necessary.

[spare osprey]

Why would i need to turn them down?

I need a total of 720 water. 480 being from pumps and 240 from the refineries

[median heath]

Oh now we have another issue...

You're shoving 720 into a mk2...

Which caps at 600...

[spare osprey]

oooh god

I completely forgot that 😢

Would it be possible to make two pipes from two extractors ?

[obsidian breach]

Split em, make two pipes for two refineries

[oblique notch]

yes, why not?

[median heath]

Yes.

I need to go get food though, so if you have further issues someone else will be able to help with them!

[spare osprey]

This should be correct right?

Bottom one is the 240 from refineries

while the top and middle one is transporting 240 each

[oblique hollow]

inline and without pumps is risky

the VIP is every temperamental and if you dont build it EXACTLY like in the manual, sometimes, it just fails

[fair oriole]

is my math wrong, 200 fuel into normal turbo fuel recipe 200/22.5*18.75

into fuel generators at 4.5/min

so just over 37 fuel gens?

nevermind, one of my refineries wasn't hooked up 😄

lol

i think it's correct, bit it's taking a while to buffer

i have three at the end that keep flipping back and forth

is there a drop off on horizontal pressure at a distance?

[oblique notch]

there is no real "pressure" no. And horizontally, no.

there is "headlift" which is faked pressure, and it just is a maximum ceiling that can be reached, from the highest pump.

[oblique notch]

dont let the whole system buffer at once - it may never catch up due to the way machines consume liquids (in chunks, often 'faster' than it can refill)
let the whole system fill, and turn on the generators one or twice at a time.

[fair oriole]

yeah, this second (of 8) rows, i'm filling before connecting power

600 crude to 296 fuel gens

which was a terrible idea, but i'm only doing it once

44.4gw

[wheat nymph]

hi! I have the diluted fuel recipe as well as turbo blend fuel and turbo heavy fuel. I got 300 heavy oil residue per minute that I don't know what to do with. From my calculations it seems that the best would be to turn that into regular fuel using the diluted fuel alternative, and then use the standard turbo fuel recipe and feed that to fuel generators resulting in 16,7GW - 1,7GW electricity netting me a solid 15GW of power. Is that correct? I'm asking because the wiki suggests that turbo blend fuel would be really good especially in combination with diluted fuel and heavy oil residue, which I both have access to. However, using turbo blend fuel in combination with diluted fuel and heavy oil residue, I get 10GW. That minus 648 MW in electricity nets me 9,3 GW, so a bit less than the more direct route. Also it requires more trains and those need electricity, too. What am I missing?

Here's some ready made calculations:
Alternative Turbo Fuel + Diluted Fuel: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"500"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_HeavyOilResidue_C"%3A"300"}%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"]}
Alternative turbo blend fuel: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_LiquidTurboFuel_C"%3A"300"%2C"input"%3A{"Desc_HeavyOilResidue_C"%3A"300"}%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_TurboBlendFuel_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_DilutedFuel_C"]}

[oblique hollow]

Wiki likely suggests turbo blend because it uses less sulfur at the cost of a bit more oil

Turbo Blend yields less turbofuel (300 Turbo for 225 Crude)
while normal turbo yields 500 for 225 crude

the sulfur and coal cost is the only difference

One of the reasons we try to kick recipe chain analysis from the wiki: A bit too weird for some players to get behind

The other benefit here is that Turbo Blend uses less buildings in total

No Assemblers and way less Refineries than the 27 + 7.5 you need for normal Turbofuel

[median heath]

Where are they seeing Turbo Blend "requires more trains" than Turbo?

That's my main question.

[tropic hawk]

1: SCIM is not the best tool for planning factories, I would say SatisfactoryTools is.
2: not counting logistics, DF+TBF is recommended, because it requires less WP per MW generated. It also only needs sulfur and oil, whereas normal TF or THF need coal to make compacted coal, and also use more buildings IIRC

[oblique notch]

Get your ABC in thr FUBAR downtown before we FYZ you into JKY... 😆

Tl;dr: (hehehe) ... acronyms suck.

[tropic hawk]

Acronym explanations:

• SCIM: Satisfactory Calculator and Interactive Map
• DF: Diluted Fuel
• TBF: Turbo Blend Fuel
• WP: Weighted Resource Points (don't ask me why there is no R)
• MW: Come on, you should know this
• TF: Turbofuel
• THF: Turbo Heavy Fuel
• IIRC: If I Recall Correctly

[oblique notch]

That's all good and such. But acronyms are one of the top reasons for miscommunication. And when you throw a half a dozen or more into the same line it gets super confusing. No matter if you think people should know them

Any time you saved in typing is almost always lost by the person reading it or by both, when you have to explain it.

[oblique hollow]

Usual method: dont use acronyms unless you know the person you are chatting with

[median heath]

I mean I would say use Blend over Turbo because it saves on sulfur.
End of reason.

But I also would say please don't use Turbofuel as your source of power because Diluted gets you to nuclear with much less hassle...

[tropic hawk]

I've been cursed with going overboard with factories, and nuclear has scarred me, so I am fine with TF. (DF-TBF)
I agree with you on recipe choice too.

[wind spade]

There's no R because it's just weighted ppints 😛

[wheat nymph]

Oh I’m using nuclear as power source. I mainly just want to get rid of the heavy oil residue from my plastic production.

[wheat nymph]

It is true though that electricity through turbo fuel seems like a lot of hassle

[wheat nymph]

Thanks for all that info, it’s very helpful! What are weighted resource points? Where can I read up on them? And what exactly is the issue with SCIM? I haven’t used either tool a whole lot.

[sleek willow]

As I understand it, WP tells you how efficient a recipe is in terms of its use of resources on a maximum extraction basis.

[deft lichen]

correct

[sleek willow]

In other words, if you were mining ALL deposits at max over clock, and you wanted to maximize your production, you'd want to use the recipes with the lowest WP.

That's a pretty extreme situation though. 😁

In most cases you'll want to also consider buildings involved, footprint, power requirements, access to required resources, and what you want to build.

[wheat nymph]

I see, thank you

I am nowhere near this situation fortunately

One important metric for me for the quality of recipes is how much hassle they are. I can afford a slight bit of inefficiency because there are still plenty of resource nodes on the mal

[sleek willow]

You almost certainly can.

The only resource to maybe keep an eye on is sulfur.

[wind spade]

not even that. it's just a semi-objective parameter that can compare raw resource usage

but in most cases you're more interested about local resources near the factory and use recipes base on that

[deft lichen]

you can't stick exclusively to the lowest WP recipes because you might run out of some resources sooner than others

[sleek willow]

I agree it's not fully objective and I don't think it should be bolded on the wiki.

Most of my alt recipe use occurs when it allows me to avoid pulling in a raw resource into a particular factory.

[tropic hawk]

SCIM gives you way too much detail and certain things that basically force you to build factories in a certain way whereas SFT just shows inputs, resources flowing to each building, the equivalent clockspeeds of them, and the outputs. It's UI is also a lot easier to understand

[median heath]

Use it to make more Plastic.

[true chasm]

@plush acorn This is what's happening

[plush acorn]

since it's hard to explain using text here's a little video (ignore the low fps my computer doesn't like satisfactory & discord & obs)

[true chasm]

I get how that works, maybe a better view would help explain what i'm trying to do.

[plush acorn]

you want it through multiple floors?

[true chasm]

yea

[plush acorn]

you just have them chain together

[true chasm]

to keep all the crap out of view

I think I tried that and part of the lift disappeared

maybe there is something else I could try

[plush acorn]

actually testing it out it won't cooperate

[true chasm]

Well this just happened

maybe brute forcing it is the anwser

[plush acorn]

found the problem

[true chasm]

I think

[plush acorn]

you build the middle part first so you build the one between the floor holes first than the input and output lifts

it's a little wonky but it works

[true chasm]

i'm trying to fit as many constructors as I can on a 4x4 and if my plan works I can fit 14

but I need the extra level

[plush acorn]

so you want it to merge 2 conveyors into one lift?

[true chasm]

yea, it seems messing with it a bit has solved the problem, I thought it may just be a odd thing.

[plush acorn]

maybe something like this would work with a merger in the middle?

and this could zig-zag back and forth for as many floors as you need

i think i just discovered a great way to transport stuff to the AWESOME sink on the roof

[vapid gorge]

Blueprint?

[true chasm]

I worked out the problem, but how can you link blueprints? I'm kinda new.

I'm working on my first really big factory

[vapid gorge]

Oh you make blueprints, tier 4 I think. Mostly asking because blueprints can act weird but I’ve also had that problem because I removed the foundation that the floor holes were on before the lifts and had that happen

[true chasm]

I made factors for all the base items and a highway system to bring them all to one place

this took me a while to do even using blueprints

[plush acorn]

that's a lot of conveyors

i wonder if you can share blueprints on the workshop

if not i want that feature

[true chasm]

if someone can show me how I'll link my highway

this is where i'm smelting iron, I'm only using 32 right now but it has space for more and if need be i'll add a second floor

I have another once for gold, copper and steel, mind you this is the biggest

[plush acorn]

there's gold in this game?

[vapid gorge]

They mean caterium

[plush acorn]

i was about to ask

[true chasm]

sorry

"not gold" TM

[plush acorn]

"close to but legally distinct enough from gold"™

the tm symbol is just colon tm colon

[true chasm]

Well I think it's done, lets hook it up and see if it runs the way I want it too

[oblique notch]

Its just a visual bug.

It wont effect anything, and usually goes away with a reload

[tropic crest]

What should I do

[wheat nymph]

I see, thank you

[wheat nymph]

Yeah this might be my best option indeed. Thanks

[wind spade]

Pick one of the three recipes, ideally the one that you like the most

[ocean sluice]

also this is the wrong channel, just a fyi

[vapid gorge]

This is meta

[wind spade]

it is not?

it's the most correct channel technically

[true chasm]

how do you lay down a power outlet vertically? I seems I can only put them on walls

[median heath]

They can go on ceilings just fine.

If you want one on the floor you need to put a beam down and then snap it to the beam.
Otherwise all you will get is Poles.

[true chasm]

ah ok

[oblique notch]

Beams and Pillars are the "this breaks all the rules" tools of vanilla placement. it either "pretends" to be a different orientation than you can normally do, or it allows for crazy rotation/granular movement (or both). They are your friends :p

[ocean sluice]

what's the max round trip time for a fluid train if i need 480/m throughput per wagon? (im smooth brain)

[frosty owl]

Brain foggy, so double check:
(Freight car capacity) / (600/min) - (Load/unload times)

[ocean sluice]

soo 1600/600 - (round trip time + docking time) = throughput?
so 1600/600 - 480 = round trip time by that logic?

[opaque oak]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Locomotive#Train_throughput

Need to switch the numbers to fluid car ones.
So the 1600m^3 instead of the solid items and 1200 instead of 1560.

The 0.45... is the load/unload time if you wonder.

27.08/60

[frosty owl]

No, it should equal round trip time as you asked. In any case, Baldur got you

[autumn field]

I've got one I can't sort out. I've got 4 blenders making nuclear cells, two refineries making 50/70 sulfuric acid per minute. and I'm pushing the excess sulfuric acid into the out pipe of my fluid buffer. My fluid buffer keeps filling, any idea what I'm doing wrong?

160 acid required, 160 produced.

[deft lichen]

if buffer filling up is undesired, why have one?

[snow dove]

remove the buffer

[deft lichen]

you could try remedying this by not mixing fresh and recycled acid

so each machine runs either on fresh or on recycled acid

if mixing, there's a "variable input priority" junction setup but that goes beyond me

[snow dove]

from the fluid manual

[autumn field]

I thought it would help prevent my blenders from deadlocking

[median heath]

Unless you're doing fluid trains, buffers never help.

They cause issues or do nothing.
They never help.

[autumn field]

So pipes closes to the ground prioritize over higher pipes?

[median heath]

If built correctly, yes.

[autumn field]

will that work?

[mystic moon]

It should

[autumn field]

are the pumps really necessary?

[snow dove]

no

[median heath]

Yes.

[autumn field]

^_^

[mystic moon]

Yes

[autumn field]

Ok, good info, thank you!

[mystic moon]

IIRC you CAN leave the top pump unpowered if you want but I generally just power both

[median heath]

Depends on where it is.

[autumn field]

imo it's not worth the brain power to try and figure out when it's needed or not.

[mystic moon]

It also depends on where the lower priotiry feed comes from

[median heath]

Aye.

[oblique notch]

The pumps in this case are not for Headlift, but because pumps prevent backflow from where they sit.

and they do so in a way that is MUCH safer/less prone to quirks people don't quite grok than Valves.

[mystic moon]

With the way mk1s are bugged you currently only need to power the bottom one

If they're both mk1s

[median heath]

I mean, if you place it down below where it needs to go and don't power it.. the lack of headlift due to the reset to 0 by the unpowered pump will fuck the system...

[mystic moon]

Mk1s don't reset headlift curently

[median heath]

Odd.
But I tend to build for how things are supposed to work and not rely on bugs 🤷‍♂️

[mystic moon]

Yes, same
It'd sure suck to be relying on unpowered pumps to pass on headlift and then have them patch it

[torpid prism]

is there some easy calculator around to calculate how much MORE recycled plastic or rubber i need to make to feed the counterpart refineries? feels like i have a plug in my brain right now

[oblique hollow]

exactly 50% of the output is the input again

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[torpid prism]

i feel bad right now 😄

[oblique hollow]

@wind spade idk if thats something you care about buuut apparently, the factorio fluid system never actually got overhauled?

[wind spade]

wdym? or rather what context is that for?

I'm not sure if it did or not, but it definitely went through tons of changes over the years

[oblique hollow]

i was doing some digging

theres things like "blog post number 260, 271, etc"

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-274
this kind of stuff

aaaaand apparently, NONE of these changes got implemented

just some optimization to the old system

but never a full on overhaul

[wind spade]

I'm relatively sure that some of those changes were implemented 🤔

but idk, I'd have to read through FFF and forums again

[oblique hollow]

whatever it was, its not "fluid junctions try to do equal splits"

and "fluids take some time to fill pipes"

since, if i remember right, they have magic lightspeed fluid

[wind spade]

they do take some time to fill pipes 🤔

[oblique hollow]

0.5 milliseconds or whatever. any system is pretty much instantly full.

[wind spade]

I'm not so sure about that. It may be how it works with water pump, but that's 1200/s

but I'm pretty sure my long lubricant pipe took a few seconds to reach the other end with slow production and no buffer

[oblique hollow]

it just kinda surprised me as i always thought "yea they redesigned the system, why not satis too" and then i find out they just did optimization and never changed how the system works

[wind spade]

I remember a few big changes, one of which was removing decimals from recipes

[oblique hollow]

i know that the mixing prevention sorta made it in

but the change to grouping and junctions never did

which is why those pipes have odd priorities

"first connection built gets fluid priority"

in a way its kinda great how most of these things already work in Satis pipes.
minus precision issues

[wind spade]

well luckily it doesn't matter much as we can set own priorities using circuit network 😄

(and minus all the bugs)

[dark saffron]

@fringe pollen #screenshots message yes. everyone starts like that normally in that spot as well for their first playthrough

[heavy gust]

i wouldnt mind something like this, if that fixes the problem with pipes

[vapid gorge]

eh, almost all problems with pipes can be solved with a loop.

[wind spade]

(or removing valves)

[vapid gorge]

I’m not counting those as they are user error

[muted goblet]

Are they really a user error tho?

[wind spade]

99% of cases yes, as they are useless in those cases and only cause harm

[vapid gorge]

most common thing - 'I need 30 fluid pm in this pipe' sets valve to 30 pm not getting pipes work on average flow

[muted goblet]

Yeah but thats my Point. Its not a user error in that case

Theyre Just designed bad

[wind spade]

not really

ignoring the "limited number of values" bug on valves, they still won't work the way most people think

[heavy gust]

if it leads people to believe it works in a different way than it actually works, its not user error

[vapid gorge]

is it being used right? no.

People not understanding average flow is user error

[heavy gust]

not presenting it in a way that allows the user to understand it is design error not user error

making it overly complicated to the point of users not getting it is design error

[wind spade]

it's not complicated tho

[vapid gorge]

it does exactly what it says on the box - lets at most X amount through. It's your fault if it's not ALWAYS at max

[heavy gust]

then why are most users not getting it?

[wind spade]

it's users assuming things

[heavy gust]

then its not presented/explained correctly ingame

[wind spade]

"flow is capped at X" doesn't mean "flow will be X"

[heavy gust]

users will always be dumb, you have to account for that

[wind spade]

if user assumes it, then it's user error

[heavy gust]

you cant expect the user to be smart about things as a designer

[vapid gorge]

paying the smallest attention, especially when troubleshooting pipes, you can see pipes ebb and flow

[wind spade]

I expect user to know a difference between "max possible value is X" and "value is always X"
especially since they already used belts, where it's the same - 60/min belt doesn't guarantee that it will have 60/min items, it depends on how much you send on it

[heavy gust]

[vapid gorge]

so I guess if your 'good design' bar is 'user doesn't need to use their brain' is your target I guess you're correct

[muted goblet]

If it actually says its max not average then it gets back to user error, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

Well it has to be max right? if you set it to 300 and you only have 100 going through it's not going to stop flow entirely right?

[frosty owl]

@vapid gorge I hope I'm not jumping in the convo at a bad time, but I'd like to remind both sides that the game is still EA. As obvious as that is, it also implies that many things are in the most basic state the Devs considered "satisfactory" until 1.0, which includes no work on tutorials and tips other than the basics explained by ADA.

In other words: I think 1.0 will have a different and more in-depth approach at explaining piping to users then the current game, which only offers the basics.

[heavy gust]

no i wasnt trying to complain

i just think putting all blame on the user isnt right

[oblique notch]

you cannot account for that. Because no matter how much you do, someone will always be dumber.

I agree that the Fluid system isnt quite explained well enough. Its far more intricate than pretty much any other system in the game - Power? Belts? No where near as complex. And there is no hidden tutorial for how complex it is or what all its intricacies are. There needs to be more of an introduction loop to fluids, but I have no idea how one would do that in a game where you can do anything anywhere in any direction.

One of the keys of good hidden tutorials is limiting players at first until a certain act is passed. Like you would limit their ability to build vertical pipes so they dont have to deal with head lift.

But thats not possible.

I suspect there will be a Fluid Rework update in the future addressing some of these aspects of systems that make it a little more intuitive, but hopefully without "dumbing it down" to just "pipes move liquid like belts"

Truthfully, If the valve was changed to just say "Prevents fluid from backflowing" and remove all the numbers from it, it would probably be 100x better.

There is a huge intuitive gap when people try to "balance" fluid.

fluid doesn't need to balance. If you have a set of pipes and you send fluid into it in real life what does it do? it attempts to equalize across all pipes and so it does so here in the game as well...w hich means it self balances. But people keep thinking of pipes like belts despite the numerous points to the fact they are not (In the game now - volume. Headlift. Flow rate being not ppm but a unit of volume, completely different models and UIs)

There is only so much you can do to stop that bad assumption.

It doesn't help too that one of the primary assumptions of belts is wrong - the 'common paralance' and understanding of factory games is based in the way factorio was played, as it was one of the first really popular ones that hit the gaming zeitgeist. Factorio and Satisfactory are very different beasts - Balancing (while not strictly needed in Factorio) was highly encouraged by streamers ... and is completely unnecessary given the way the single entry input works in SF. With that in mind, its no surprise players try to balance fluids because of faulty base assumptions

[heavy gust]

Knowing that you have to do your best to make it easy to understand.

[vapid gorge]

if you find an abacus and try to solve a math problem with it are you going to blame the people that made the abacus when you get it wrong?

[heavy gust]

thats nothing alike and not a fair comparison

[oblique notch]

agreed, but in this case not only are CSS fighting against just plain laziness in assuming somethign works, but also a crap ton of social / history / gaming "knowledge" of factory games saying it works differently. You can't really design well around people assuming SF works like Factorio when it doesnt.

[vapid gorge]

Valves have a description, and then people flail around with them w/o looking for information or thinking about it

Some things you need to actively learn.

[oblique notch]

Actually... it kinda is a good one. Factorio is one system, Satisfactory is a different one. One of the major issues we see here is people assuming SF works like Factorio. And thats where they get in trouble.

ie: assuming an abacus works like a calculator

[vapid gorge]

Hell if you go with YOUR argument then belts are the same because tons of people assume you have to split items on a belt manually

[heavy gust]

thats not what i was talking about

[vapid gorge]

most days on this server I bump into someone with that assumption.

[median heath]

Me, googling what an abacus is because it sounds like a type of fruit.

😂

[oblique hollow]

Tbh, when you first unlock coal gens, they should only give you pipes and junctions. No Buffers and no Pumps

forces you to build close to water initially

to compensate, maybe give water extractors extra head lift

[silent roost]

When I was new I thought pumps were used for water extraction and was confused by why attaching a pump to a pipe under water didn’t work. Then I realized there was a separate building called a water extractor.

[open patrol]

God. I rember my first coal setup

It had pumps every 16 meters of pipe height. Plus an extra pump attaches in front of the extractors.

Overpumped as hell

[amber umbra]

The idea that fluids in Satisfactory aren't the most intuitive and could use better tutorials/redesigns seems reasonable to me. Maybe there isn't a better way to do it, so it's also logical how it ended up in its current state. (giving the player valves and buffers that don't seem useful for a long time feels weird)

[oblique hollow]

removing pumps for the first unlock is tbh the best thing they can do

that and buffers

[muted crypt]

Question, since I've never delved into nuclear (and actually planned to go through with it):

How would I go about deciding my recipes? Looking at greeny's calc is one thing, and while it's the most resource efficient, it has lots of annoying numbers to work with for what I'd chosen as my output, so I'm curious how I'd go about "personalizing" things to make numbers a bit less... shit, I guess.

[snow dove]

you pick and choose recipes

[muted crypt]

so basically just a bunch of trial and error with recipe combos?

I wasn't sure if it was just as simple as that so I figured I'd ask

Are there any recipes I absolutely want to avoid with the nuclear chain? I plan to sink plutonium fuel rods to avoid having waste, so any recipes up to that point are fine.

[oblique hollow]

just do default recipes as a start

its got nice ratios

10 nuclear reactors are fed by 5 manufacturers making fuel rods

then you just work out the input for those 5 manufacturers

[muted crypt]

ye 1 rod per minute = 5 reactors

[oblique hollow]

after that, you can delve into using the uranium cell alt

and see if the numbers are more in your favor

but for now, default is the easiest choice

[muted crypt]

going into this the only sort of mentality I had was "minimize uranium used per uranium fuel rod, and maximize uranium waste used per plutonium fuel rod"

also you're right these numbers are nice

[oblique hollow]

for starting out, that isnt worth it

its also JUST 10 reactors

[muted crypt]

ah this is just to like

[oblique hollow]

remember that the max is like.... 252 or whatever

[muted crypt]

trial run the process

[oblique hollow]

yes

10 reactors with default recipes will not hurt your efficiency later on

as its just 10 reactors out of a max of like 252 or even 440+ (?) with plutonium

thats less than 5% of the max

at least its not 900 Turbofuel Generators

[muted crypt]

listen-

don't make me set that up again just to spite myself you

[oblique hollow]

https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/63f6464c5298eb579df0c386
@oblique notch there, i made it a suggestion

[oblique notch]

i thought about that but its a pretty harsh restriction... its going to cause a lot of people to go 'wtf? why cant i get my water up that high?'

but maybe ada can warn about it, and maybe the whole "headlift indicator" can be made more clear when placing pipes

[oblique hollow]

Which just means "why didnt you read the info on the extractor"

or increase the default head lift of the extractor

but, from a starter perspective.....

Imagine a new player gets to coal

[oblique notch]

i never expect anyone to read anything 😛 i want to show them.

if the "headlift indicator" that goes off when you place a pump was also visible while placing pipes that would be awesome

[oblique hollow]

They get a water pump, a few pipes and junctions

then ADA goes "be sure water is close to coal"

and off they go scanning for coal

[oblique notch]

and have any pipe hologram placed higher than the available headlift turn angry red or something?

[deft lichen]

some people don't realize the build menu has descriptions until I point it out
"how faster is the mk2 belt"
"read the build menu description"
"oh"

[oblique hollow]

point is not we NEED a Head Lift Gauge for the extractor

because measuring 10 m by hand is not cool

[oblique notch]

yah - Im saying the headlift UI guage should be on all pipe holograms.

Ie: place a new pipe, and the headlift guage shows where it currently is possible. Anything after that indicator is striped or something.

[oblique hollow]

if it works witht he system, sure

but afaik head lift cannot be continuously measured

the pump only ever displays the sum of all head lift changes after it

"this pipe goes up 10 m, the one after 2 m, then 5 m.... makes 17 m"

a new pipe attachment that just shows head lift from the outside would be cool tbh

[oblique notch]

well Headlift is a known value on the pipe Network

[oblique hollow]

but for now, making water extractors and oil extractors show head lift inside them is good enough

[oblique notch]

so when you connect a hologram to an existing network, there is no reason it cant be checked

[oblique hollow]

the ring hologram?

[oblique notch]

i mean, thats one way to show it yes

but not really important to the actual check.

[oblique hollow]

still has a source. All it does to determine where it should go is do some binary divisions from the source

i made a test with the ring range extended and with 2 seperate pumps

[oblique notch]

eh. Not really. the movement has a source. The final ring where it stops? thats just the current max headlift of the pipe network

[oblique hollow]

you end up with 2 seperate rings on 2 seperate heights, in fact

there is no one final head lift

its two

[oblique notch]

there is the current max headlift of the pipe network. You changed the range at which the ring can travel right?

[oblique hollow]

but only one takes effect

[oblique hollow]

yes. just means it doesnt decay over horizontal distance

[oblique notch]

im not saying there wouldnt need to be some refactoring going on 😛 but the Pipe Network object itself has a max headlift value.

[oblique hollow]

same as head lift not decaying

[oblique notch]

that would be referenced in this case. It's not for "where the new headlift will be if i place this pump" its for "this is the current headlift afforded to this pipe network"

maybe an overlay train rails!

[oblique hollow]

would still probably mean that it always starts with this from source machines

[oblique notch]

put a pipe / junction / buffer in your build gun, and a color gets overlayd on top of the pipes showing what pipes are currently below the current headlift?

it doesnt have to start anywhere

its not a moving thing.

[oblique hollow]

no machine no head lift overlay

no head lift source no info

[oblique notch]

hold on

let me go glance at the headers again

[oblique hollow]

there is "addpressure" from machines

or rather output connectors

[oblique notch]

this is what im talking about:

private:
    struct FPressureGroup
    {
        /** If valid, use the redirected groups values instead of this one. */
        int32 Redirect = INDEX_NONE;

        /** World Z values for different pressure points in meters, NOT unreal units. */
        float HighestPumpZ = -1000000.f;
        float HighestElevationZ = -1000000.f;
    };

the HighestElevationZ

world z values.

that means its very easy when the hologram is being checked to check the PipeNetwork for that HighestElevationZ, and whatever is below that to put a color indicator on (just like tracks)

[oblique hollow]

displaying that comes with a caveat: you always need a measure of "from - to"

[oblique notch]

no, its world z

[oblique hollow]

i mean for the overlay

we dont really like world z

as players

[oblique notch]

doesn't matter? The players wont ever see it: Hold on... let me mock something up.

[oblique hollow]

"what do you mean this pipe is at -25 and this one at 63"

[oblique notch]

this is all the player sees:

they pull up a pipe in their build gun and when looking at a pipe network, its overlayed with a color that shows where the pipes are underneat the current networks headlift

just like rails+signals overlay with colors indiciating each signal block

that is quick, intuitive, and will solve 99% of all headlift problems right there

[oblique hollow]

ok, but... what would this one here specifically display

theres no source connected and no sink

[oblique notch]

ignore that its a mock

pretend its part of a larger network

[oblique hollow]

you just get a funny pink overlay that covers the whole pipe in this case then

no, lets start here

[oblique notch]

no, because the default Max Headlif tis -1

so there wouldnt be anything

fine, let me build you a better mock 😛

[oblique hollow]

right, so what do we do in this case

like i said, displaying THIS overlay without a relation to a source machine doesnt help

or without a "starting pipe we measure height from"

[oblique notch]

No headlift currently in the system. No overlay. Z coord for max headlift is -1 which is below the map, so all good. Nothign shows up.

once i put down the pump, then the overlay shows up because the max headlift value has updated to whatever that z coordinate up there is:

[oblique hollow]

right THIS i can understand since there is a refinery

aka a source of applied head lift

[oblique notch]

or i guess, it should show up to 10m before

i dont know why you needed it, its a Proof of Concept not an actual system :p

[oblique hollow]

my point is, this overlay would't work on any pipe system thats not connected to anything yet

[oblique notch]

of course not

there is no headlift - and thats fine.

[oblique hollow]

thats ALL ive been arguing the past ... what, 30 minutes? 😂

that was my only concern

[oblique notch]

lolol

yes, allright. We've been dancing in circles. 😛 It happens. I guess I was just already accepting that fact and couclnt figure out why you werent already accepting it as well

[oblique hollow]

i guess the point "without a source to measure from, theres no useful data" wasnt easy to get across the way i imagined

[mighty rover]

hey all. been trying to find some info on how many raw resources /min the map can provide.
dunno if im overdoing it or not but i need 3k crude to make petroleum coke... i wonder if that much crude is available at all. oh yeah and i'm running on oil power...

[oblique hollow]

theres 11k/min crude

maybe even more

[median heath]

11.7 iirc

[oblique hollow]

all values are in /min

water is effectively infinite

[mighty rover]

ah lovely thank you 🙂

[median heath]

More bauxite when they add nodes to Spire plz 😩

[mighty rover]

hmm so 100 heavy frames/min might a bit much for my first big project....

[oblique hollow]

buff instant scrap so it outputs more

[oblique hollow]

hmm yes

with alts its a maybe

but 100 is still quite the amount

50 manufacturers

[mighty rover]

yeah gotta admit it felt great bringing ALL the iron from the desrt in.. but 24 forges ...

guess i go back to small pottoe building

[oblique hollow]

with 100/min frames you are looking at hundres of foundries

and hundreds of smelters

[mystic moon]

Last time I did HMFS I did like 15 or something
That was a large build

[oblique hollow]

last time i did HMFs i did one manufacturer. Fed from containers

[mystic moon]

Lol

[median heath]

Where's my 135/min gang?

[mighty cloak]

What is a good ratio of copper products to be producing for mid-late game? I'm setting up a copper alloy production line currently that is producing 480 ingots/minute and am trying to figure out what to prioritize.

My initial thoughts are to use 50% on sheets, 25% on wire, and 25% on cable. This ends up producing 120 sheets/min, 120 cable/min, and 240 wire/min. Does that seems like a decent ratio for mid game (currently tier 5/6)?

I've never really gone too deep into tier 7/8, so I'm not sure what to expect. Like will this not be enough production to last me much later and I'll need to find other copper nodes anyways?

[median heath]

You're the only one who can answer that because we do not know what your end goals are.

My advice would be -- build what you currently have planned because you don't know what T7-8 is going to need.
And adjust to T7-8 when you get there.

You can't plan for it unless you've experienced it.

[mighty cloak]

I've done some 7/8 before, but never really completed it (my goals would be finishing space elevator, setting up nuclear power, etc.)

automating all automatable items

[median heath]

Ok, so you need numbers with those items in order to answer your question.

[mighty cloak]

Not going for full map optimization

[median heath]

Full map isn't possible.

[mighty cloak]

I mean like, I don't expect to fully utilize all the nodes on the map. I'm just looking to produce every item and complete the space elevator.

[median heath]

Yes. So pick specific number targets for those items and you'll have your answer.

[wind spade]

ratio depends entirely upon you

[jade shore]

Question for production... I'm making Aluminum Casings, and the two options I have for recipes make me question the alternate. I want 360/min, and I can either use 540/min Aluminum Ingots OR 483.75/min Aluminum Ingots + 225/min Copper Ingots. The question is, is 56.25/min Aluminum Ingots worth 225/min Copper Ingots?

[median heath]

Worth is decided by the individual.

[oblique hollow]

its hard to compare

[jade shore]

I guess I was thinking there was a rarity value assigned to each resource, and I'm not sure what those are

[oblique hollow]

apples and oranges and all that

[median heath]

In this context questions like:

Are you using the Copper for anything else?
Is there something else you could do with the extra Aluminium?

Are very relevant to the decision.

[jade shore]

the rarity based on how much of each resource is on the map

[oblique hollow]

we no longer use global limits to decide these things

[median heath]

Rarity should be based on how much of each resource you plan to use.

[oblique hollow]

use local limits to decide

[median heath]

Because it is impossible to reach the global limit of all things.

[oblique hollow]

copper nearby? no? stick to default casing recipe

[median heath]

Or ship it in 🤷‍♂️

[jade shore]

gotcha... I'm making BP factories, so source of materials is kind of abstracted, as I plan to supply them from trains coming from all over the map

[oblique hollow]

local evaluation is still prefered

granted, some resources arent local

but as you said, its 225 copper to save 56.25 aluminum
unless you plan to maximize the resources on the map and make the maximum of every item, this seems like a bad deal

but generalized: they have equal weight in this situation

[median heath]

googles literal gram weights of these substances to be a pedandick

[oblique hollow]

situational weight, not physical weight

[jade shore]

yeah, I'll probably be making Pure Copper for these, so the cost is really around 110ish/min copper ore

[oblique hollow]

if the extra setup is worth it to you, sure

[jade shore]

ok, gotta run, thanks for the advice!

[true chasm]

I think I bugged it out.

[median heath]

Yeah I posted that behaviour a few weeks ago.

They borked.

[rustic patio]

He dancing 😎

[dense oxide]

That’s not a big, he is just alittle special

Bug*

[formal lynx]

I have one that hovers around and through lakes. Pretty funny

[round talon]

If the machine need 10.5/min, should i feed it 10/min item or more?

[fierce cypress]

you should feed it 10.5/min

[vapid gorge]

have you just started out?

[round talon]

I only have 10/m for feed 😭😭. I though decimal 0.5 not matter.

[oblique notch]

This game is about precision.

So, it does. Quite a bit.

[round talon]

Maybe i lower machine need to 10.05/min

10/min input should be good right

Or i lower machine need to 9.975/m for 10/min input?

[round talon]

Nevermind, i use mod to test the machine. Either it run fine or not with 10/m input and 10.5 machine need.

[opaque oak]

Will just take time for the buffers to empty.

200 minutes if both output and input buffers were full at start.

So it will run, but it will start stopping for moments later.

And then the output from the machine will be lower too.

[wind spade]

If a machine needs 10.5, then you need to provide 10.5, there's no way around that

[opaque oak]

You can provide it less, but you just get uneven power usage and less out too.

[round talon]

I can't even produce more 0.5/m because it uranium waste, i need nuclear power to craft more uranium waste.

[wind spade]

Uneven power usage is not a problem, but uneven production usually is

[vapid gorge]

so underclock it yeah

[wind spade]

Then underclock the machine to only need 10 instead if 10.5 (and underclock all the other machines accordingly)

[opaque oak]

Or just let it idle at times from input starvation.

Which many people intentionally do with waste processing, to keep the radiation down.

[round talon]

Lower i can get is 9.975/m or 10.05/m

Should i choose more 0.025/m or less 0.05/m?

[opaque oak]

But only works if you sink the plutonium rods, and don't try to use them for power.

But seems you have gone for some of the alts to do the reprocessing.

[wind spade]

what is the machine?

[round talon]

Blender

[opaque oak]

Because the base recipes would use 100/min waste for single line.
And could then easily be downclocked to 10% for 10/min.

[round talon]

Base recipe use 37.5/m though?

[opaque oak]

For the whole single line, with 1 particle accelerator, 2 blenders etc.

37.5+37.5+25 of waste.

Or single blender @ 20% and the accelerator on 10% for 10/min waste.

[wind spade]

if you clock it to 26.6667%, it will use 10.0000125/min, which is pretty close

[round talon]

Nice thanks. Should the output to use be precision? This is going to be long way.

[wind spade]

that's why people use production calculators 😄

as soon as you get into decimals, it's hell

[round talon]

I got 1000 uranium waste to be use. Guess i won't sleep for a few day.

[opaque oak]

So if you have 1000 waste, why not just 10 normal lines at 100%?

1000/min waste I mean.

[wind spade]

26 machines at 100% + 1 machine at 66.6667%

[opaque oak]

Need to reserve that 25% for the next step with particle accelerators.

Which also needs waste.

[wind spade]

(assuming one machine needs 37.5/min)

[wind spade]

I'd just use the non-waste alt

[opaque oak]

Two blenders doing the non-fissile @ 100% makes enough for single particle accelerator @ 100%, which then needs total of 100/min waste for the three.

And then you need three assemblers @ 100% for next step, and then two manufacturers @ 100% for last, with default recipes.

Making neat and easy line to process 100/min waste to 0.5/min plutonium fuel rods.

[round talon]

That what choose to

[opaque oak]

And the alts make if just that much harder, because the ratios suck.

[wind spade]

well, if you use production calculator, it's easy 😄

[round talon]

What that?

[opaque oak]

You get the numbers, but they don't exactly match.
And you need much bigger cells

[wind spade]

there are some in pins here or in #welcome

[opaque oak]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production
The one Greeny codes.

[round talon]

i just follow all that and i will be fine right?

[round talon]

Famous last words

[wind spade]

indeed

[round talon]

Atleast i know how manifold injection work. That help a lot

[opaque oak]

Mainly with nuclear I manually checked some of the numbers and rounded every clockspeed up (so x.3334 and not x.3333) and so on.
Better to have overproduction than underproduction that could after several days start cause the waste to back up.

[wind spade]

the tool does this automatically

see the screenshot, it rounds 66.666666666...% to 66.6667%

[opaque oak]

With the x.33333... it will round to .3333. Like the normal rounding is.

But with this case you want to be .3334.

[wind spade]

no it won't. It will display "one machine at 33.3334%"

[opaque oak]

Ok, remembering wrong then.

[wind spade]

(talking about the tooltips on hover)

[round talon]

thank guys, see you in a few days.

[mental anchor]

Hello guys, how your day going ? I was wondering something. If i want to maximise the production of my node (in this case iron ore to produce RIP/Modular Frame/Rotor), is it possible to use decimal values by underclocking ? Or should i rounded everything to have a more efficient factory ?
And if i can use some decimal, how far are the limit (x,x / x,xx / x,xxx...) ? Sorry for my approximative english ^^

[vapid gorge]

Well if you need to underclock a machine so that there isn't any stuttering thats fine and common?

[round talon]

Hei, im back. Forget to ask, does mk5 belt inconsistent already fix for 780/m?

[wind spade]

mk5 belt was 780 always

[round talon]

I know, but it not stable. I get like 750 - 778 like that. Same with mk2 pipe. Does that issue been stable or not yet.