math-and-meta

[oblique hollow]

it surely can

[south walrus]

If the fuel stops getting consumed, HOR backs up.

[median heath]

This just sounds like a math error.

[oblique hollow]

if you do something better than goofy ah piping you dont have these issues

[median heath]

Once the facility is on there shouldn't be any variance.

[oblique hollow]

we can help there, which is what we should do even

[south walrus]

If HOR stops, polymer resin stops.

If polymer resin stops, plastic stops

If plastic stops, fuel stops

[oblique hollow]

... you said you were recycling tho

[south walrus]

Ok hang on I need a visual for this

[oblique hollow]

like, you mean the "recycled rubber / recycled plastic" recipe, right?

[oblique hollow]

screenshots could help

of your factory

[south walrus]

You can't tell what's going on in screenshots. I'll make a diagram thingy

Gimme a min

[oblique hollow]

its always terrible when you dont understand your own works 😰

[south walrus]

Yeah oof

[oblique hollow]

makes troubleshooting a pain... as we just heard

imma hop ingame and try to build a miniature replica of whatever you send

[south walrus]

Ok here it is:

Fuel is getting produced faster than it’s getting consumed, because it’s not being packaged fast enough.
Fuel piles up, which slows down consumption of Heavy Oil Residue (diluted duel recipe)
HOR slows down, which causes polymer resin production to slow.
Lack of resin slows rubber production down.
Lack of rubber slows plastic production down.
Lack of plastic slows canister production down.
Lack of canisters slows fuel consumption down.
Infinite loop of sadness.

[median heath]

Miniatures? Sounds like modding

[oblique hollow]

nah

[oblique hollow]

care to list the number of refineries for each step?

[south walrus]

Oh goodness... Let me see.

[median heath]

Wouldn't overclocking or adding more packagers solve this immediately?

[oblique hollow]

and clock speed if you messed with that

[south walrus]

Yeah that's what I did to solve the problem. If any excess fuel gets generated, it can be removed.

[robust carbon]

I don't enjoy Particle Accelerators..

[oblique hollow]

welcome to variable power demand, enjoy your fluctuating 2000 MW

[rustic patio]

Make a naughty grid

[south walrus]

The refinery itself works fine now. The issue is that the excess fuel (which is not a normal part of the process) might interfere with the shipping of other products.\

[oblique hollow]

then dont merge all of it with the rubber going into the train

you have no use for that much excess fuel

[robust carbon]

Today I scaled my Turbo Fuel from 320 to 480, only to apparently hit my current power requirements - barely. I'm just gonna give up with this TF playthroug and slap a few nuke plants up tomorrow.

[south walrus]

Ooooooooooohhhhhhhh

Ah ha!

[oblique hollow]

i assume you have 2 seperate belts for cansters?

one for canisters going in a circle to make diluted fuel, and one to package excess?

or do you just constantly make new canisters to make diluted fuel

[south walrus]

Ok i just added a flow limiter to the fuel output line. Only 270 (the regularly produced amount) can get on the train. Any extra gets sinked imminently.

[south walrus]

I use the blender recipe. No need for canisters there.

[rustic patio]

Valves aren't that simple

They're 8 bit

You can't set precise limits with them

Even if you could, itd rarely help

[south walrus]

I'm not working with liquid fuel. I having issues with packed fuel. The problem is solved now though. Thanks for the help!

[oblique hollow]

dont you have fuel generators?

because for fluids, there is an overflow junction build

you can just make excess fuel be redirected into generators

[south walrus]

Oh yeah I tried using that method. The main line for fuel is bumpy though and has high and low points. No matter where I put the junction, it would either always or never get fuel.

[oblique hollow]

head lift might be an issue

[south walrus]

Yeah it was. Not all the machines that make fuel are level.

[oblique hollow]

the overflow bump must be taller than whatever machine uses fluid normally

if its not taller, its not overflow

you can however "decouple" this

[south walrus]

Yeah. The issue is that because some machines are higher than others I could not find the sweet spot for the overflow pipe's height.

[oblique hollow]

this is how you remove the height dependancy

bottom right is normal output

the pump ensures that any pipe after the pump can be as high as needed

without affecting overflow

you can also use a mk 2 pump

[south walrus]

Eh. The extra packagers that I built serve the same purpose and prevent the system from being overcomplicated.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

[oblique hollow]

always welcome

i DO suggest you sort that mess out in the future however xd

[oblique hollow]

if you have recycled rubber AND recycled plastic, you can make those run smooth without any fear of interruption from fuel overflow

because those two in combo can just straight up turn only fuel into rubber and plastic, no outside starter rubber or plastic needed

[south walrus]

Bruh. WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THAT

[vapid gorge]

Ok math nerd hive mind - This is the centre of a circle, the beam across the 2 platforms is 4m and 3m (upper and lower respectively)

I'm doing my best to get a central foundation right in the centre and wondering if anyone knows a good way to put one right in the middle xD

hmm I think I got it

[topaz hedge]

I think I've showed off this way of doing aluminum.. I'm pretty sure mcgalleon either did it first, or gave me the idea xd

it does not lock up. ever, and needs no sink. they made aluminum a bit too easy x: 75:100 sloppy:electrode

[tropic hawk]

Does it need pumps?

[topaz hedge]

it does.

[thick plank]

I mean yes but why not just use the polymer with water for a plastic starter? I mean you cant really use it for much else

[wind spade]

*rubber

[thick plank]

? What you meaning? You produce plastic out of water and polymer, not rubber

[wind spade]

you can do both and rubber gets you more items out of same amount of polymer

[thick plank]

Wait you can do both? Ok thats interesting, didnt know about that. Thx

[wind spade]

rubber needs more water but less polymer

so pretty much always better to process to rubber than to plastic

[thick plank]

I mean whater is basically infinite practically speaking

[thick plank]

Yup. I didnt know that recepie existed

[vast jungle]

and the two "Recycling" recipes makes it easy to produce either rubber or plastic from the original rubber (and the fuel)

[ashen edge]

witch one should i pick and is there a link with the best to worse hard drive items to pick?

[deft lichen]

there is no best/worst, each recipe is a trade, pick what you feel like using
in this case, just avoid the beacon alt

[cinder silo]

Iron wire is useful first iron is everywhere, second if you go nuclear pasta crazy, copper becomes quite the commodity.

[tropic hawk]

1: Good for maximizing iron output at the cost of additional water, power, and space.
2: Good for lowering building count of beacons at the cost of steel and Crystal Oscillators
3: Good for making wire if copper is nowhere around at the cost of iron

My opinion is 3>1>2

[ashen edge]

alright thx

[tropic hawk]

my pleasure

[wind spade]

no best/worst, no good/bad, pick any you like

[left fractal]

@tropic hawk

@tropic hawk

on the left is full on the right no

[median heath]

Any best/worse link you get is going to be entirely subjective and opinion.

The only mostly objective recipe tier list is:

Overpowered
-HOR
-Encased Pipe

Situational
-Everything else

Shit
-Biocoal
-Charcoal
-Fine Concrete

[vast jungle]

Don't forget diluted (packaged) fuel and the two recycling recipes

[median heath]

What about them?

They aren't overpowered.
It's HOR being broken AF that enables them to be as good as they are.

[deft lichen]

D(P)F is still turning water to fuel lol

but you have a point

[vague thorn]

I would be curious to see what other thoughts there would be on the production of either 12.8 or 19.2 Plutonium Fuel Rods.

The goal is 540GW Zero Waste Nuclear with a tentative build location in the swamp and desert either in or off the coast to make piping a little easier.

The project will have up to 55-60GW budgeted from fuel power with it ideally being 45-55GW usage in the end result. This is my grand finale on power production.

[tropic hawk]

Delete both pipes and rebuild them

[median heath]

Are you using the Plut rods or just sinking them?

[vague thorn]

I will be sinking the plutonium rods, the difference in the numbers is the 19.2 I believe would use the pellets. My goal is to have as few steps as possible to make a little less of a complication.

[median heath]

If that is your goal, you already know the path you need to take.

[vague thorn]

True, I suppose I was wondering if anyone else has been as crazy and might have some thoughts to reduce it further. Or for moving stuff like Uranium.

[bronze silo]

working on a BP for my first foray into aluminium ...

is this right ... and is there any other info you guys tend to add to BP descriptions?

[median heath]

I wouldn't BP your "first foray" into something because that automatically sounds like it will change after you finish it and get the sense for what it entails.

[bronze silo]

I wouldn't normally, but this is the max I can get out of a normal node with mk2 miner and fully OC'd

[median heath]

Max using Base recipe is different than Max though.

[bronze silo]

aaaaaaaaaaaah

forgot about those! lol

[median heath]

I wouldn't make a BP until I had either Instant Scrap or Sloppy+Electrode

[bronze silo]

most of the drives where researched before I entered phase 3

[median heath]

As those are the 2 methods you will choose between.

[bronze silo]

yeah

[topaz hedge]

and pure aluminum too. makes it super easy. blueprints almost arn't really needed. except for maybe the smelters if you're using pure

[median heath]

I use base Aluminium Ingot because it gives more.

[rustic patio]

but your usecase isnt the same as everyone elses

not everyone uses up all the aluminium

with the "worse" one u can get 9780 aluminiulm per minute

[median heath]

True.
But the Ingot stage is it's own decision to make.

Scrap is always down to Instant vs. Electrode+Sloppy no matter which Ingot you choose.

[rustic patio]

and with the other one you can get up to 13040

[rustic patio]

true true. im a sloppy electrode kind of person

[median heath]

All just comes down to Coke vs. Coal.

[rustic patio]

so you can use 16300 silica for 3260 extra aluminium

and for me that wasnt worth it

but depending on what yu want to do, that can be worth it

[frosty owl]

I'm more of a Bolted Wet Residue person, myself

[rustic patio]

bolted wet residue?

[frosty owl]

Bolted Plates/Frames
Wet Concrete
Heavy Oil Residue

[median heath]

Bolted Plates... 😭 Pain.

[frosty owl]

I just randomly chose a word from each. No particular order was entailed

[median heath]

Sloppy Coated Computer

[frosty owl]

Helps a lot in machine reduction and I can "fit" it in the factory plan

[median heath]

Space-saving is the sole function of that recipe, true.

[frosty owl]

More like performance-saving, for my use 😅

[median heath]

It pairs decently with Bolted Frame too.

Because Steel Screw makes 260, Bolted Plate takes 250, and you can route the extra 10 over to Bolted Frame and not have to deal with weird %s.

[frosty owl]

Add Flexible Frames and the whole chain just comes together.
Too bad Flexible isn't quite good, else it's be more than just a fun layout to play with

[median heath]

As always:
More Rubber, Less Screws and I will actually use Flexible.

[frosty owl]

I would argue the opposite.
I'm willing to shed more (steel)screws over them, but the rabber seems a bit much to me. That's quite a lot of oil-per-frame

[median heath]

I guess if you put a Steel Screw Constructor @ 1.5 so you can 1:1 it in the manifold line of Flexible it has more merit.

[frosty owl]

Btw, Coated Cable was a great choice for machine reduction too.
I know this may sound weird after making a point about saving oil, but I think it's worth it: output of cable from 30/min to 100/min AND you need to make less wire for the same amount of cable

[median heath]

Steel Screw + Copper Rotor though

1:1 if you put the Constructor at 75%

[bronze silo]

do pipes with indicators have much of an impact on performance?

[mystic moon]

They can have a very small impact locally

They don't really impact overall save compared to clean pipes

[bronze silo]

nice, thanks bud

[median heath]

Main use I see for clean pipes is when you're packing them tightly and don't want the indicators clipping 🤷‍♂️

[rustic patio]

They might have more uobjects

No way to test it, but if you plan on getting close to the uobject limit, maybe don't use them, just to be safe

[elder cypress]

I use clean pipes because I think they look better.

[rustic patio]

for some reason my power grid uses more power than max consumption

any idea what could be causing this? it was perfectly flat once

it is now too, but its above max consumption

[mystic moon]

I'd they do it would be a very small increase

[mystic moon]

And the uobject limit just isn't that big of a deal

[median heath]

Hoverpack?

[rustic patio]

nope

[median heath]

Clarify: like you are not wearing it at all?

[rustic patio]

its still above while im not wearing it

it is in my inventory

[median heath]

(Still draws power even when you're walking on the ground, some people miss that)

[median heath]

Odd.

[rustic patio]

with hoverpack on

i restarted the game multiple times

[deft lichen]

consumption exceeding max consumption is a honorary feature at this point

[rustic patio]

it wasnt always like that tho...

[deft lichen]

the bug has been happening ever since they added the max consumption line

[rustic patio]

it only started being like this after i replaced my pips and exchanged my pumps to mk1 pumps..

:(

sad, i had a perfect grid and now it is detroyed

[median heath]

Perfect grid is one you never have to look at because you know it has far beyond what you will ever need.

[rustic patio]

i need it!

if it were not for this bug it would be achievable

[median heath]

You need to build nuclear and never look at power again.

[deft lichen]

in my last save I hid my fluctuating fuel power setup using all the geothermal generators, you couldn't even tell something was wrong

objectively my approach is superior to yours

[rustic patio]

wanting to have consum equal to max cons is not because i dont have enough power

its just cool when two numbers are equal

[rustic patio]

id banish them onto the naughty grid ™️

thats also where my trains and optional sinks and particle accelerators will go

i will have a perfectly flat grid

[bold fox]

Where could I go to find currently known satisfactory tech? I.e. stuff like prime splitters, water towers, hyper tube jank...

[shadow prairie]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @oblique notch

[oblique notch]

tho id totally foget about doing Prime splitters if i were you, but to each their own

[bold fox]

I couldn't find stuff on there

[oblique notch]

its there. just... its fandom so... its tough

for example: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:Prime_splitter_arrays

[median heath]

Manifolds: The ultimate prime splitters 😉

[oblique notch]

Also see the pins in this channel for some more things, though most of them are on the wiki too

[bold fox]

That's something I already know of. How would I find things I don't happen to know about already on there?

[oblique notch]

search. And googlefu. And luck.

and asking around if you have something you specifically want more info on.

but... like a nice handy "ehre is some cool tricks" there is nothing like that. Its scattered through on various pages.

haunt around this channel and #design-and-architecture and you'll probably hear a lot of ones too.

[bold fox]

Ty

[tropic hawk]

do you have anything overclocked?

[rustic patio]

nope

[topaz hedge]

Winning.

Sometimes you just need a balancer.. at least I do.

[opaque oak]

Currently a bug in game that causes the numbers to mess up, if you OC/UC a building before connecting power IIRC.

Like the pre-underclocked BP deployed buildings you probably have.

IIRC the fix was to put the machine into standby and back on. Not sure if there were easier ones.

Possibly removing power from the whole section and then reconnecting.

[rustic patio]

But it worked after building it

I haven't done any over or underclocking between it working and breaking

[opaque oak]

No idea then, but currently there are some bugs related to the max consumption calculation.
And possibly to the consumption one too.

[rugged valley]

@brisk rover You have to break the middle ore and you can place the machine 🙂

[strong granite]

Is there an "optimal" site to build nulcear in the meta? From what I can tell pretty much no matter where you put it you have to import sulfur, and otherwise it doesn't really have many constraints?

[vapid gorge]

the east swamp can make a reasonably sized nuclear set up very easily

[strong granite]

That is exactly where I was thinking about and primarily because it has such room over the water.

[vapid gorge]

even has oil nearby for plastics/rubber

[strong granite]

Buuuut I have to find a place for my batteries then.

[vapid gorge]

do both there. Just don't use all 600 sulfur for nuclear

[vapid gorge]

battery

[strong granite]

Yeah ok that might not be crazy. I mean regardless the nuke plant needs so much sulfur it will have to be imported so it's not relevant.
And having the batteries for the drones right there for the uranium would be nice.
I found actually a pretty convenient spot to put turbofuel but I think if I will be bussing sulfur around anyways I would rather put turbofuel on the west coast.

here tho..... is like pretty ideal for resources.

the red dot ofc

But the west coast doesn't really have a better use. And it's a great building site. And also I don't have to transport water from that lake...

[proven grotto]

Are u like good at statisfactory

[tropic hawk]

You are saying the red dot is ideal for a Turbofuel Plant?

[opaque oak]

I would place it somewhat further south.

[vast jungle]

I built a 20 GW TF-Powerplant over the lake in the past... its really a great place for TF...

[snow dove]

only 20GW?

[strong granite]

I put my coal plant right at the super far west edge of that lake. I think I could fit a tf plant next to it. I left room for it. But the thing is then the scale I want to go I have to stretch the northern oil all the way down. The red dot has a nice big clearing between everything

[vast jungle]

20 GW of DPF was quite a thing to build... (no Blenders in U3)

[strong granite]

I’d rather build on the lake tho

Orrr I have to employ the use of trains to move the oil in which case the west coast with importing the sulfur via train is just better

[vast jungle]

a long conveyer belt for the compacted coal might be a more reliable way to get the stuff to the Oil...

[rustic patio]

this will provide bidirectional headlift, right?

[strong granite]

No compacted coal. Using turbo blend fuel

[vast jungle]

also an option... it might also make the whole thing easier because you need less sulfur...

hmm... how much TBF you can get from 600 Sulfur? 1200 TF, right?

[strong granite]

Basically it comes down to avoiding transporting sulfur on the train network; where I put the TF.

Yes

I want twice that

[vast jungle]

then you definitely need both Sulfur nodes... nod

and you need 1800 Oil?

[strong granite]

Yup

[vast jungle]

this will be quite a project...

[strong granite]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=RM4vMRbnHtudVoxv9xBu

[vast jungle]

did they change a recipe? I though turbo-blended fuel had no leftover polymer resin... hmm

[strong granite]

Heavy Oil Residue

[vast jungle]

yeah, the current calculation has some leftover from the HOR/DF/PC/TBF array... I though it was self-contained... hmm

maybe I just remember it wrong

[strong granite]

Anyways if I put the TBF anywhere that requires an import, it might as well be sulfur to the West Coast. Because otherwise it's a greater amount of oil to transport.
So the red dot was an attempt to avoid any imports. Kinda still stuck on where I'm putting the thing, but not sure the difference actually matters.... LOL

[rustic patio]

the worst part of theat project will be all the fuel gens lol

[opaque oak]

Ah, you need the Desert Canyon oil nodes too.

[strong granite]

Right

[strong granite]

Yes and more importantly how to make them not look like a mess.

[hearty sand]

so im trying to setup turbofuel for fuel generators but when i try to do the math i always need more Crude Oil then what should be necessary and i dont get why?

[strong granite]

Don’t do math. Use the calculator.

[rustic patio]

Do math AND use the calculator

[wind spade]

make the calculator and never use it

[rustic patio]

@civic kiln

i build these under my train network, i can navigate through them at super speeds

its basically the same as a train t junction

just, with hypertubes. the secret sauce is to use an entrance at the exit

ive tested it with 36 hypertubes and it worked

green is junction red is merger

[bronze silo]

how come this is fluctuating?

[rustic patio]

is it supposed to be pumping 600?

[oblique notch]

flow rate is not constant in pipes because of several factors a) variable consumption (machines take big gulps periodically) b) stable production (output is generally pretty linear) and c) the display shows total flow both ways out of the pipe segment.

[tropic hawk]

Yes, but why do you need it?

[tropic hawk]

Spire Coast, northeast of the center of the oil, about due north of the eastern-most oil node.

[opaque oak]

Because excess headlift seems to currently affect stable flowrate maximum for some reason.
So to get full potential of Mk2 pipes, you need extra headlift.

And looping works because it drops the requirement per pipe in half.

And not because of the loop per se.

[tropic hawk]

Really? Interesting...

[opaque oak]

Lauras system with input and output at same level worked with Mk2 pump just on one input and rest not.
Or with cheat watertower.

But not with Mk1 pump or no pump.

[median heath]

Bear in mind pretty much everything with fluids will need to be re-tested once they do the overhaul on mk2s.

[opaque oak]

Yes.

[tropic hawk]

Is that a confirmed feature of the next update or just something they said that they would get to?

[opaque oak]

But it would explain why some Mk2 pipings can do full 600m^3 without problems and some cannot.
Without known reason so far.
For example my Mk2 feeding 599m^3 has plenty of extra headlift from the way it was constructed.

[median heath]

Nothing has been confirmed for next update afaik.

What we do know is they are bringing mk2s down to 500, mk1s down to 250, and rebalancing all fluid recipes accordingly.
"When" has not been disclosed.

[opaque oak]

And it ends up in 24 refinery straight manifold with bottom feeding. No loops etc.

Probably the same complete rebalance they have talked about, which will also touch the beacons in the nuclear alts, and get Mk3 miner "fix" etc.

[bronze silo]

Yep

[opaque oak]

It will pump full, and just recycle fluid if that isn't going anywhere.

[median heath]

afaik Mk3 miner thing hasn't been said to be in the same thing as recipe rebalance 🤷‍♂️
Also recipe balance and beacon removal is because "it's better to break everything all at once"

Pipe change will not break anything. 🤷‍♂️

[oblique notch]

Unless they decide to use a recipe re balance to help alleviate some issues with pipes by lowering liquid requirements across the board

(Or raising even, meaning less machines per pipe)

[median heath]

Those would be separate things though.
Like they could 100% put them in the same patch, but the pipe rebalance is just all numbers shifting by the same amount to accommodate the new mk2 and mk1 capacities.
So technically they could do that as its own thing if they wanted and the the recipe rebalance later. 🤷‍♂️

They are the only people with answers to these questions.

[oblique notch]

And ta recipe rebalance has been stated as one of the ideas on the table regarding mk3 miners

[oblique notch]

Sure. But my point was specifically that the pipe "fix" (which isn't a fix as it's not really broken/bugged; it's just a streamline because fluids are not intuitive) could be made a lot easier with less "fix"/refactoring on their side if the recipes change so there are less machines per pipe

Could. It's a theoretical

[rustic patio]

Because I need to move up water through multiple pipes and I'd like to use just one pump for that

[turbid drift]

say you had 3 stations... these 3 stations each are in different locations on the map and are each filled by 3 mk.5 belts of all the same material (9 belts total). the trains are all transporting the materials to the same location to then be fed into 9 outgoing belts to feed the machines.
Would you prefer 3 trains of 3 cars each, to feed 1/3 of the output each?, or 3 trains with 9 cars each to take turns feeding all the belts as they arrive? or 1 train with 9 cars alternating between the 3 stations?
Personally im going with the 3/9, but im interested in others thoughts... im tempted to give the 3/3 a try though as it has been set up to easily adjust if needed, but im liking the large trains at the moment

large trains are just so much cooler

[wind spade]

I'd do it this way:
each station has a 3 car train that picks up the 3 belts
now either all 3 trains go to destination and unload to 3 different stations
or they go to some central point where they unload to a 9 car train which moves it to the destination

[turbid drift]

but if you're going to put the trains on the same line, why not just start with the 9 cars?

transferring from one train to the other is just double handling

[wind spade]

because each train should only go between two stations

it's a rule I live by

makes it much easier to handle logistics, increase/decrease of throughput required and adding/removing cars

[turbid drift]

well in my case with this example, the central drop-off point is right in the middle anyway

[wind spade]

then just three 3-car trains

[turbid drift]

yeah im starting to think the 3/3 may be more efficient. in essence its the same throughput, because the 3 car just does 3 trips while the 9 car is waiting to fill up. but it seems more reliable. i'll be testing both once its actually finished anyway so it will be interesting how it turns out

[timber agate]

React 🤓 if bounce pads should be overclockable for more bounce

[strong granite]

How far is too far to be pumping water?

[snow dove]

an amount

[oblique hollow]

idk, 1000 m?

[median heath]

Your game, your rules.

[strong granite]

ALRIGHT VALVES EVERYWHERE

Does oil follow the exact same rules?

[oblique hollow]

every liquid flows the same

[rustic patio]

All fluids follow the same rules, you don't need valves

[oblique hollow]

if your pipes are shitty, then they all dont flow

[strong granite]

So realistically there is no cap on how far you can pipe water it’s just gonna be super swingy at the start?

[median heath]

You should only really use Valves if you're building a VOP junction.

[strong granite]

Listen, you said my rules.

[median heath]

Correct.

[strong granite]

Hmmmm

[wind spade]

valves are not recommended to use unless in very specific cases

[rustic patio]

Sure you can use them, but you don't need them. You'll just make yourself suffer

In very rare circumstances they are needed, I've never needed valves

[strong granite]

Let’s not all be so literal.

[wind spade]

in very rare circumstances they are possible to use

I don't think they are ever needed

[strong granite]

This new information both complicates and simplifies my plans…. Now I have more choice. But also now I have more choice.

[rustic patio]

True true, let me rephrase it. They are needed for certain contraptions

Like a cheese water tower. You need parmesan and valves to build it

[strong granite]

I can’t believe the thing holding up my placement of the last HMF plant is the lack of LIMESTONE in blue crater.

I would so love to put it there but just isn’t logical to import freakin concrete of all things lol

[median heath]

Rubber Concrete, my beloved.

[strong granite]

I need 2700 limestone all the same

[median heath]

Only 2700?

[strong granite]

Yes which is “only” 2.5x as much as exists where I want to put the plant. Lol
Which is only 40% of the HMF production. So we’re already fractionalized for the iron demand which is why I’m trying to avoid splitting it further.

[tropic hawk]

all liquids, nitrogen has slightly different properties

[rustic patio]

Aghhg

I always get fluid and liquid mixed up 😭

Yes, I meant liquid, nitrogen doesn't need headlift

[median heath]

They do follow the rules of not needing Valves though 😉

[tropic hawk]

and it fills top to bottom

[opaque oak]

Didn't when I tested it more.

[tropic hawk]

really? thats what I have heard but I haven't done much with it

[opaque oak]

Had 3 big buffers on top of each other, all filled at same rate.
And when I removed input, emptied one, they started to balance and then oscillated like crazy.

I did think they filled from top, but didn't when I actually tested.

All connected pipes and buffers wanted to go to same fill percentage.

When no inputs and outputs.

No matter of relative position.

But they kept overcompensating and oscillating.

[median heath]

Gas is just liquid with infinite headlift.
It doesn't behave any differently.

[tropic hawk]

interesting. Glad that misconception got cleared up

[opaque oak]

No, as just said, it fills to same percentage when it can. No matter the position.
Fluid fills from bottom.

So the fluid has clear line, the nitrogen doesn't

If you have long pipe with 1000m^3 total volume, and input 10m^3 of nitrogen, you get 1% fill in all the pipe segments.

No matter how they are arranged.

10% with 100m^3 of fill.

It will oscillate like crazy when trying to get that balance and never reach it.
But that will be the levels it will oscillate around with no input or output.

Fluid will just level to fill the bottom of the system, depending on piping arrangement related to feed position.

[median heath]

Found another use for Stun Rebar: If you shoot a jumping spider in the air their jump does no damage to you when they land.

[vapid gorge]

So - problem -

I'm delivering items via drone

I want the look of always moving belts

But I can't have a sink at the end.

Is there a solution that isn't bringing the end belt back to the drone buffer and having a priority merger?

[robust carbon]

Is that a fact? Because slushing is a factor separate to head lift, or so it has felt

[median heath]

It's the way it was described when it was introduced 🤷‍♂️
I've never had issues getting gas to go where I want it, so I personally haven't dove into the minutia as I usually do that only to solve why something doesn't work.

[robust carbon]

A valve with 0 headlift changes how liquids work. So either there's more to head lift than would be apparent at first glance, or then that statement isn't 100% true

[median heath]

Entirely possible.

[vapid gorge]

would using a ISC and just running the overflow directly back into 1 input do the trick? if it ever got full it'd still stutter though

[robust carbon]

It could just be the inherent gravity based head lift that tosses a wrench there

Liquid that starts from 200m high requires no pumps if it goes 200m down and 200m up again, but pump ring thingy doesn't reflect that at all

Might just be an oversight in pump code though

A perfect example is a factory that had enough headlift according to the UI, but last two refineries struggled to have enough crude oil. Replaced an unrestricted valve with a pump and it just worked.

That's what I reckon is slushing, and pumps seem to "kick" the liquid even when headlift is unnecessary.

[wind spade]

buffer + rate-limited belt

[wind spade]

sure, but the overflow must be done with smart splitter

[vapid gorge]

Hmm I can't find anything online about a belt limiter set up. Just people asking to turn smart spilters into valves.

[vapid gorge]

But as mentioned wouldn't I still get stuff sent to sink with the ISC?

[wind spade]

well, depending on what's the target IPM

you can rate-limit using slow belts

and then split resources from them to make it even slower

(and merge back resources into the ISC)

[vapid gorge]

Yeah I was thinking it might be similar to a load balance set up ... urgh

Some of them would be easy. I have a bunch of 600 and 300 belts I need done

However I need 352.8 rubber ....

which is the stickler

wasn't too worried about the 600 and 300 ones

[wind spade]

52.8 is 22/25 out of 60

[vapid gorge]

Which is why I thought 'priority merger'

Then shortly

'fuck, an actual use for a priority merger'

[wind spade]

so... 60 belt to limit to 60, then 1:25 balancer (e.g. 1:5 into 5 times 1:5), merge 22 outputs to get 52.8, merge with 300

(you asked for it 😛 )

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's purefly aesthetic.. but still

[vapid gorge]

I feel the priority merger set ups I've seen would be more compact >.>

[vapid gorge]

I truly asked for it yes xD

[wind spade]

I don't think there's a 100% priority merger setup that would work for your case

[oblique notch]

think the best we can do is a couple of overflow forcing the prioritized belt overflow back into the main line?

[vapid gorge]

Groooosssssssssss.... but thank you for helping brain storm

[wind spade]

there's only that 99.99% one with spamming tons of mergers and splitters, and there's 100% one with trains which doesn't solve the "items come in bulk" problem

(at least afaik)

[vapid gorge]

Well - having the end of the manifold coming all the way back to the start is pretty fraking awks sadly

not impossible but a bit awks. I could clip the return lift through a pillar though I guess

[oblique notch]

train one being two stations and it picks up from the first "priority" line and only filsl the train from the second line if there is still room?

[vapid gorge]

@oblique notch Well I'm pretty sure I'll need 2 drone ports delivering the 352 rubber right? so would the train idea modifiable?

I've also never done the train thing

[wind spade]

I was talking about three stations, load, unload, unload. Second station is priority split. For merging it's the same just reverse - load, load, unload. First station is priority merged

however the items still come in bulk for that and it takes a while to stabilise

so I don't think it's a viable strategy for what you want to do 🤔

[oblique notch]

hmm.

i would think that load load unload would be better, the first load being the priority line, the second being the less, and then they get mixed together at the unload.

But if you have smaller parts per minute might not work out.

[wind spade]

that's... what I said? 😄

[oblique notch]

oh

i for some reason read that as load unload load 😁

[wind spade]

load unload unload is priority splitter with trains 😄

[vapid gorge]

So pretend I don't know what this load load unload thing is? xD

[oblique notch]

3 Train stations. First two set to laod and last set to unload (for priority merge)

[wind spade]

three stations on one loop, train going in a loop. loads at first station, loads remaining space at second station, unloads all in third station
after it stabilises, the first load station has priority for the "merge"

(can also be done with trucks)

[oblique notch]

constant stream of Factory carts for smaller numbers 🤣

[vapid gorge]

Big oof

The things I do for continuous flow main lines

[wind spade]

I'd just go with the 22:25 balancer tbh xD

[median heath]

Real pioneers truck things with Cybers 😉

Is still really want them to do my idea with those 😦

+1 Inventory slot to the Cyber per star you earn in the Productivity Packager.

[vapid gorge]

YEAH yeah... I probably will.

[median heath]

Means if you ace the game you get a 19 slot truck with square wheels.
Which is still a meme, but slightly more usable.

[vapid gorge]

After doing the balancer I'll just use Micro Manage to shrink the spag to 1:100 the original size. Genius move

A way to squeeze in a train stop xD

Finally, the train stations we deserve

[wise sky]

i have a question how do i do this part? it is producing 15 iron rods but one modular frame requires 12 im not sure how to do this

[rustic patio]

you need to make 240 iron rods for the modular frames and 180 for the screws

[rustic patio]

whats the confusing part

[bronze silo]

grrrr

[median heath]

?

[bronze silo]

not an even 300, lol

couldn't get much closer though! 😛

[median heath]

Sorry I can't see anything other than "modded image"

😉

[bronze silo]

lol

[bronze silo]

what mods? 😛

[median heath]

[vapid gorge]

what did you do that needed 299.9999?

[muted goblet]

u can't get the max out of an mk3 miner on a pure node, can u?

mk5 conveyor should max at 150% on an mk3 miner, right?

[opaque oak]

162.5% IIRC

[muted goblet]

oh yeah, 780/min not 720/min

but still can't max out an mk3

[opaque oak]

Change coming at some point. Known issue.

There was supposed to be Mk6 belt.

[muted goblet]

so that might be a new tier thingy to come

[median heath]

1200 was set before they knew 780 would be their engine limit.

[median heath]

Very, very unlikely.

[opaque oak]

We don't know, but the devs have selected the solution.

But aren't yet willing to talk about it more.

[median heath]

I'm still on team "dual output for the mk3"

Because you can clearly see there is enough space for it on the model.

[opaque oak]

So we will probably know more once U8 teaser season starts.

[muted goblet]

just as a background: i'm trying to figure out how many sulfur i'll "waste" on turbofuel before going nuklear (and batteries)

rn i'm thinking 1 pure node, which gets me 40 GW, should be plenty to start nuklear production and support all my other builds im on rn

[median heath]

Or just use Diluted to get you to nuclear because Turbo's only practical use atm is making bullets 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

I won't be rebuilding turbo again in subsequent saves, the one I kept in my current playthrough is through sheer inertia after the spire coast got changed.

All that sulphur will go in to batteries.

[muted goblet]

i'm more of a train guy, so battery numbers don't need to be that high honestly

Using diluted would be fine aswell, but i still want atleast 1 turbofuel power station

[thick plank]

They will do that. The problem they are having in the moment is how to deal with dual outputs. You have a few other objects with dual outputs, but all of them have different inventory’s for the outputs. Even the mk2 container has two seperate halfs that each get their stuff from either the op half of the inventory or the bottom half except if those are free and only then it goes to the other one.

I guess thats their problem

[cinder silo]

I still think the dual output thing should be done in the same way the two bio-burners on the hub are, basically two mk2 miners in one structure with their own UI and clocks.

[thick plank]

No? Trubofuel is more usefull then batteries. And you need much power before getting to nuclear

[muted goblet]

Well u could argue that u got enough oil for making diluted fuel until nuclear

[cinder silo]

You don't need a lot of power to get nuclear off the ground, a dilute plant can easily do it at like 40,000Mw

[muted goblet]

and turbofuel is a bigger logistic nightmare

[thick plank]

Not that much. And how much power you require before getting nuclear is hoghly dependent on a bunch of factors

[cinder silo]

Tell me about it, my current save has a 133,200Mw turbofuel installation using 1800 oil.

[thick plank]

Like 40K isnt enough for me in my current world and I havnt gotten nuclear

[cinder silo]

It wouldn't be difficult to exploit a second oil well for power then convert to packaged fuel when the nuclear is up.

[thick plank]

And the logistics for turbofuel is completly dependent on where you build it

[cinder silo]

The logistics is why I have a web of tunnels feeding the thing.

[thick plank]

Where did you build yours?

[cinder silo]

Originally the spire coast, coffee stain changed the place big time so I moved and redesigned the place to the gold coast to the west, and diverted the tunnels to feed coal + sulphur there.

This was the old spire coast installation , 1800 oil > 4000 turbo fuel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTc93T8-G4

two days taken for demolition and ten days redesign and rebuild later, this is where it was rebuilt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rLV_YcVt8s

[muted goblet]

i think ill go spire coast aswell, like the eastern side of it with a conveyor bus to coal and sulfur

and when i demolish every old factory, 40k MW is more than what i need

[thick plank]

I mean you could just have left your plant in the spire coast

[cinder silo]

No thanks.

Terrain intrusions suck and the design was archaic, the dilute package raceway was replaced with blenders, most of the buffers are gone and the build is improved.

[thick plank]

It would have still worked perfectly. I mean thats your decision, but thats just a waste of time and resources. I

[muted goblet]

why is it a waste if u your goal is to have a save youre comfy with?

[cinder silo]

Waste of time avoiding half the facility being buried under the terrain and updating it to take advantage of newer build methods? I don't see it that way and won't.

[thick plank]

Im just saying demolishing a good powerplant and rebuilding it somewhere else is a waste of resources and time

[cinder silo]

Since the vid each group of generators has small buffers to smooth out fuel flow and has actually had pipe layout improvements, the entire thing is running perfectly.

It isn't good when buried under the terrain, and half of it would have been flattened anyhow in updating it, leaving it where it was would have been utterly stupid and needlessly difficult to update.

[thick plank]

Whyever youd actually need to update it. Anyhow, returning to the previous discussion about the practicality of turbofuel

You dont really need much infrastructure for a good working turbofuel plant

[cinder silo]

You know, better way of running the damned thing, also fewer objects which is a serious issue in my world, newer power in mind I'd rather do gold coast + blue crater as dilute facilities now, and convert one to packaged fuel for vehicles later on.

[muted goblet]

which is the gold coast?

[thick plank]

Dilluted fuel doesnt save objects (assuming its running the same ammount of power). For a set ammount of power it saves objects to do turbofuel

[thick plank]

Id guess the desert coast to the north

But im not sure either

[cinder silo]

I know very well the objects in game, I have been way above it for a longer time, but the extra refinery cluster + the infrastructure to move coal + sulphur is more objects!

[thick plank]

Not for the same ammount of power

[cinder silo]

🤦‍♂️ dude, nuclear, you know the inst , forget it you are being deliberate at this point.

[muted goblet]

anyways

[thick plank]

What? I have no idea why im deliberate here. Im saying that turbofuel for the same power as dilluted fuel needs fewer objects

Whats so hard about that to understand?

You need more refineries to produce enough fuel to keep up with turbofuel then youd need to just build turbofuel

[opaque oak]

Why it matters is the question.

[cinder silo]

And you're keeping the oil installation after the nukes are up, stop being obtuse, I won't engage further because you're trolling now.

[thick plank]

Because that was taromanis argument. Saving objects

[thick plank]

Tf?

[frosty owl]

I sense a disturbance in efficiency

[tough parcel]

Which computer recipe is the best to work with? I'm trying to get a small factory so I can have them for building.

[cinder silo]

Not an easy one to answer, I settled on caterium computer because its numbers played nicely with making supercomputers, but some like crystal computer, I have no experience with that one personally.

[tough parcel]

Ok i'll look into both

[wind spade]

there's no "best", as everyone's definition of "best" is different

[frosty owl]

My best is the best best and this is objectively subjective

[ornate shoal]

caterium computer with caterium circuit board is quite simple

[bronze silo]

I believe it was alumina solution.

I underclocked it due to local limitation of bauxite I think.

[primal flicker]

I just did my first computer automation. Decided on silicon circuit boards and crystal computers (with insulated oscillators).

[median heath]

Diluted is 20 GW per Pure node.
Far more than enough to get you to nuclear.

And while the debate can be had about how easy/difficult logistics for Turbo is, Diluted is unquestionably simpler.

[median heath]

Caterium Comp + Silicon CB
or
Crystal Comp + Caterium CB

[ornate shoal]

how does that make any sense?

[median heath]

Resource cost.

[ornate shoal]

he wants a small factory to produce mats, resource cost is quite irrelevant

[median heath]

To you, perhaps 🤷‍♂️

[latent ermine]

DD has a larger spot to build

[median heath]

Why are you ignoring keywords in the statement?

Largest, flattest, most open...
Nothing in what you circled for DD is flat.

You actually didn't circle the one part of the DD that is flat.

Western edge of the RD has a massive rectangle of land that in total has a 3m height variance.

You don't really find that anywhere else.

[wind spade]

flatness doesn't matter much if you're gonna make foundation platform anyway

[thick plank]

Your last point i cant fully agree on. Its easier to use the same ammount of oil. If you want the same ammount of power id say turbo is easier

[thick plank]

And as i stated whether or not you get through to nuclear depends on what you do till you reach that point. I currently have a consumption of round about 60K without nuclear power

[frosty owl]

*60G

[thick plank]

60KMW

[median heath]

My last point is about logistics.

Oil + Water = Product is simpler logistically than Oil + Water + Additional things.

That's not even debatable.

[frosty owl]

You didn't just type that unironically, right?

[thick plank]

Logisticswise yes. Im talking about time investment

[thick plank]

Technically 60KMW=60GW. So technically im correct which is the best kind of correct

[opaque oak]

SI-system doesn't work like that.

[median heath]

60 GW of Diluted is just 1800 Oil.
Which is insanely simple to do.
Oil + Water + Nothing Else.

Fast, easy.

[frosty owl]

Well, first off I'm triggered.
Second off, it's "k", not "K"

[opaque oak]

So either it is 60000MW or 60GW.

[thick plank]

1K=1000
1000MW = 1GW
1KMW = 1 GW

[median heath]

k*

[frosty owl]

I can let kMW slide... XD

[opaque oak]

k, and you cannot put several prefixes together.

[thick plank]

Im just joking rn.

[frosty owl]

Same :P

[median heath]

Have you seen Roman Numerals? 😉

[thick plank]

What you meaning? This is maths channel, not physics channel. I could just definde a to zo all as 1 and just add the whole alphabet at the end of the former statement and it would still be true

Now lets return to @median heath

Im gone for a few secs

[snow dove]

physics is math

[thick plank]

Yes but you need multiple of thiose to match the output of one turbofuel plant

[median heath]

Still simpler.

And this is a conversation where neither party will change their mind.
So 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

You have no proof of that.

[thick plank]

Physics uses maths. Their not the same

[noble timber]

Not really. Maths explains physics, that’s about it

[thick plank]

Yes. Because we seem to define simplicity in different manners. Your talking about complexity while im talking about time investment

[thick plank]

More precisly physics steals maths and acts as if it has any worth. The true sciences are just math, chemistry and biology. Physics is just math for people to stupid to think in infinities

(Note: thats meant as a hyperbel, dont wanna insult anyone here)

[noble timber]

All the sciences (plus maths) are equal in my mind other than chemistry

Chemistry is arguably the most important science

[thick plank]

Chemistry is great cause it goes kabumbum

jokes aside, from a societal point of view biochemistty is thr most important and from a fun point of view (objectivly) its chemistry

and for raw destructive power its physics

cause they have the h bomb and neutrinos

[median heath]

Chemistry can eat a dick.
2+1.5 = 3.5

Get the fuck out with your "no, it actually equals 4 because significant figures matter more than what you can actually count in reality with your own eyes."

ends rant

[opaque oak]

Because if you know that the 2 is 2 and not only about 2 +- 0.5, you mark it too as 2.0.

[ornate shoal]

i think one of the advantages of diluted fuel, in addition to simplicity, is that it can easily be converted to plastic or rubber later on, more weirder to do that withturbofuel

[median heath]

I'm not reliving the pain of that year of school.

[cinder silo]

My next save will be using two dilute fuel plants, I'm waiting to see what happens with beacons because I want a full fat uranium plant to take over all power in it.

[thick plank]

i may be a bit biased towards physics. my teacher in there murdered his friend

[opaque oak]

By having two pipes to the coal generator manifold.

The limit is per pipe segment, not per system.

One example, with water extractors at the bottom stubs, generators at the top.
Just to show general idea.
Spread out to fit and the exact junction can differ and things turned etc.

And so on.

No.

Just has to be made so that no single pipe segment carries more than 300/min.

[snow dove]

just needs two separated inputs

[opaque oak]

Easier to get working usually with loop.

But not needed.

[wind spade]

  G  G  G  G 
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[opaque oak]

Just need to calculate that no single segment needs to do more than 300/min.

[tender niche]

I dont like fluids,theyre so hard to control

[opaque oak]

And because junctions have unlimited throughput, you can even do so that two extractors feed one end junction, and third one feeds the next one.
Even that only needs 270/min max. for highest pipe segment.

[snow dove]

they are easy to control, if you know what you’re doing

[tender niche]

We seem to have found the issue

[opaque oak]

Gid Gud? 🤪

[wind spade]

best control is no control

just give them a pipe and allow them to flow freely

loop the pipe for extra security and voila

[primal flicker]

After my limited work so far with fluids (no N2 gas yet) I will add that using gravity in your favor is a tool that should not be ignored. i.e. making prioritization humps, etc.

[median heath]

VOPs are very useful, yes.

[median heath]

Variable Output Priority junctions.

Simplest use-case is when you do overflow hooks as Weirdo described above.

[small wharf]

pumps might help?

[civic kiln]

@next fox First question, did you let the pipes all fill to 100% before turning anything on?

First rule of pipes that the game doesn't tell you, is that the less water in a pipe, the slower it flows. By a lot. Having pipes at 100% is a requirment for anything to run right.

So if pipes start off empty, they will never fill up because the flow rate is so slow they are emptying faster than they can be filled.

Try turning off your generatoes and giving it a few minutes to see what happens.

[wind spade]

pump there doesn't help?

[civic kiln]

Where is the closest pump downstream?

TIf the top of the cliff in that picture is the same as the others then that should be plenty for the pump to handle.

You're sure everything is turnd off? Nothing is using water?

Hmmm.

It sure looks like it should work.

Is it just one pipe or both that isn't working?

I'd try removing that section and putting it back, maybe the connection isn't right somehow.

[oblique notch]

When you go to place a pump on the line, it should show you were the previous headlift stops (a blue ring) - if that ring stops before your machines, then you'll need another pump.

If it goes up just fine all the way to your machine OR it just straight up stops without showing the connection point (especially if it stops at where pipes are connected) youve got a bad connection. It happens where it visually is connected but for whatever reason (lag, hiccup, slight bug, memory issue who knows) it didnt actually connect the two segments.

[topaz hedge]

Any reason a train would stop at a green signal? x:

[ocean sluice]

bad tracks?
also this is the wrong place?

[tidal wind]

Colorblind conductor?

[topaz hedge]

I'm gonna go with what simon says.

[tidal wind]

I'm never seen them stop on green unless the track isn't fully connected or an obstruction is happening somewhere in the near.

[topaz hedge]

Ain't the tracks.. :/ they were working fine yesterday. nothing has changed other than I've left my game on all day

[tidal wind]

May want to load your save into interactive map and see if there is something broken at that spot.

But I'm unsure from here sorry 😦

[topaz hedge]

I'm gonna save and reload game

...yup.. that's going to stay a mystery... before reloading, I deleted the block signal the train was stopped at.. it didn't move. after reloading I deleting the block signal and it starting going on it's merry way

amazing.

[ocean sluice]

load balancer question
lets say a load balancer balances a 20+40 belt into 30:30
and one of the inputs take 10 and the other takes 50
after the input that takes 10 backs up to the balancer, will the one taking 50 get the adequate amount of stuff...
or will it be hard capped at 30 and backup to the production/balancer input

[vapid gorge]

I think you posted this in another chat and got nothing - might wnat to post in questions

[fierce cypress]

im assuming you mean output not input, and it would depend on the load balancer

[ocean sluice]

Huh?
Alr I'll post it in #1038092680493801533 later

[fierce cypress]

it depends on the load balancer you use

[ocean sluice]

Just a 2:2 balancer, for example

[fierce cypress]

yes, but there are multiple types of 2:2 balancer

more complex ones will work in more situations - 2:2 is simple so its not as relevant but it is so in larger balancers

im assuming you mean a balancer like this:

---S---M---
     X
---S---M---

[fierce cypress]

@ocean sluice

20 > 10 > 30
40   10   30
     20
     20

that balancer works like this ^
and if one of the inputs only consumed 10 like in your question it would back up like so:

20 > 5  > 10
40   15   50
     5
     35

like so:

another example of a 2:2 balancer could be

---   ---
  |   |
  M---S
  |   |
---   ---

which would balance like this:

20 > 60 > 30
40        30

or when backed up:

20 > 60 > 10
40        50

like so:

[frosty owl]

Not really. You can generalize the assumption of "if it backs up, it outputs 10 + 50" as there is no way for balancers ||that don't involve complicated feedback loops|| to "cap" the output at values lower than belt speed.

Example of balancer that may be able to keep outputting <60/min: one where a fraction of the 60/min is priority merged back with the input, causing the latter to back up on itself

[fierce cypress]

yes, but in larger balancers such as 4:4, blocked outputs can cause it to unbalance - which is the problem i was getting at

such as (using the 4:4 example):

Out1=25%
Out2=25%
Out3=25%
Out4=25%
to
Out1=0%
Out2=50%
Out3=25%
Out4=25%
instead of
Out1=0%
Out2=66.67%
Out3=66.67%
Out4=66.67%

but you are ||\™️|| correct in saying that is the case for a 2:2

[frosty owl]

Oh yeah, of course they will go out of balance, I'm just pointing out that they will output all of the input still, not anything less

[queen leaf]

Colourblind

[ocean sluice]

Ty!
I am using a simple balancer btw
The fist one tomato suggested

[rustic patio]

desmos.com/calculator/djzytmsw4h

[ocean sluice]

hmm
a bit more info on it plz??

also the fluid train part of the questin

[rustic patio]

So you want to know the throughput of a solid train and the throughput of a fluid train and compare?

[ocean sluice]

yep

[rustic patio]

S is stack size

For a fluid train you need this to be 50

And C is belt speed

For a fluid train it's 600

For a solid train transporting fluids, you set the stack size to 100

That's the stack size of all packaged fluids

And C will be your belt speed, probably 780

Depending on your setup you may have to account for empty canisters, which would mean halving the throughput of the solid train

[ocean sluice]

i'll use a seperate freight car for that

[rustic patio]

Then you'd have to give the fluid train an additional car too to make it fair :p

Or divide the solid throughput by 2

[ocean sluice]

ye... thats what im duing

[ocean sluice]

uhh rq question
what is R ?

[rustic patio]

Reload time

[sleek willow]

The reload time is constant, defined by the game.

[median heath]

reload is so good.

[rustic patio]

Yes, 27.08

I added it as a variable for me to play around with to see what different reload time would look like

You can just leave it at 27.08

[fierce ruin]

how many overclocked water extractors for 20 overclocked coal power plants

[median heath]

20 * 45 * Clock % = Total Water Needed

[oblique hollow]

depends on how much you overclocked the coal gens

[fierce ruin]

250

[fierce ruin]

thanks

[median heath]

TWN / 120 = Total % Needed
T%N / Extractor Clock % = Number of Extractors Needed

[tight karma]

is there a way to add your own buildings in the satisfactory calculator?

as in, in the production planner use a mk2 miner instead of mk3

[vapid gorge]

I think there is a setting in calc? Not in tools.

[tight karma]

wdym in calc?

[median heath]

Just use Tools.

[vapid gorge]

sorry did you mean the webpage calc or in game?

[tight karma]

webpage yes

or some other tool i could use

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[vapid gorge]

ah then yes I believe in Calc you can change the defaul machine?

the other, Tools, is the one Sev just linked at you

You can't change the miner but I find it much easier to use

[median heath]

Items, Input tab you just enter the total amounts you have.
Keeps it simple.

i.e. if you have mk2 miners and pure nodes, but are gated by mk3 belts, you can enter that amount.

[tight karma]

So out of this I'd take 270m3 of turbofuel to 60 fuel generators making only 9000mw, i feel like my math is off cuz i thought it'd be way more (270/4.5=60, 60x150=9000)

Like, that's making full use of 6 oil wells (3 pure, 3 normal, iirc)

(pls tag btw)

[fierce cypress]

you thought youd make more power?

[tight karma]

Well I hoped so

[marble topaz]

Diluted fuel ⛽️

[tight karma]

I'm listening

[fierce cypress]

D(P)F is great

[tight karma]

D(P)F??

Haven't played in a while so I'm kinda rusty

[fierce cypress]

diluted (packaged) fuel

[tight karma]

Is that better than turbofuel?

[fierce cypress]

depends how you consider 'better'

[tight karma]

Does it make more raw POWAHH in the end if pumped into a fuel generator

[fierce cypress]

they make the same amount of power

a fuel gen will always make 150mw of power (@ 100% CS)

turbofuel has a longer burn time though

so it will produce 150mw for longer per m3 than fuel

[tight karma]

Okay yeah fair, but does diluted fuel burn longer than turbofuel?

And if so, does diluted turbofuel exist?

[fierce cypress]

diluted fuel = fuel

diluted fuel is an alternate recipe that makes fuel [HOR + Water > Fuel]

[tight karma]

Ohhhh yeah i see

[fierce cypress]

and diluted packaged fuel is [HOR + Packaged Water > Packaged Fuel]

but you unlock it earlier

[tight karma]

So what's the advantage of it?

[topaz hedge]

more fuel for oil.

[fierce cypress]

maximises crude to fuel ratio

if you want to do the same for turbo you need d(p)f too

[topaz hedge]

loading factory.. wonder what's going to break on my save tonight xd

[tight karma]

Hold on hold on, but you get the heavy oil residue from making plastic/rubber right?

[topaz hedge]

With the alts, heavy oil residue, diluted fuel (or diluted packaged fuel) and turbofuel. you should be able to run roughly 144 fuel gens on 300 oil (I might be off here)

there's an alt that just makes heavy oil + polymer resin

[fierce cypress]

👆 HOR alt, you need that too

[fierce cypress]

66.6667 gens off 300

[tight karma]

So I'd use the alt to turn crude oil into HOR which makes makes more fuel (diluted fuel) than turning crude oil into fuel??

[fierce cypress]

yes

example with the 300

[tight karma]

This is seriously hurting my brain rn 😂

[topaz hedge]

If your end goal is nuclear and you're up to blenders, but you need more power, you (might) be able to save time by skipping turbofuel and just burning diluted fuel.

[tight karma]

Well we're almost unlocked phase 3

And we're running on 2400mw now...........

So yeah we need more power

[topaz hedge]

burning diluted fuel will get you more power faster

[tight karma]

Kaykay thx!

I'll look into it in the morning, we'll probably have to go harddrive hunting

[topaz hedge]

turbofuel will get you more power per oil, at the expense of needing sulfur, coal, and building a separate production line for it.

[tight karma]

But wait

Turbofuel burns longer, but i can get more diluted fuel per oil than turbofuel per oil

Right?

Basically my question is now

What's a better way to turn my 540m3 oil into the most amount of power, diluted fuel or turbofuel?

[topaz hedge]

if you decide to do a packager loop for diluted packed fuel.. the packager loop can be as simple, or complicated as your heart desires... this is simple.

[median heath]

Turbofuel's main practical use is making bullets.

Diluted Fuel is far more than enough to get you to nuclear and is simpler to set up.

[median heath]

"Better" is subjective in this case.

Diluted is very easy and fast to "just add water" and you get MW out of it. So that would be my vote, personally.

[topaz hedge]

That really depends on what you want to to. there's plenty of oil on the map

[median heath]

If you absolute must get the most MW out of it, and are fine with having to deal with the logistics of bringing in more than just water... then Turbo is the option.

[tight karma]

My concern is just the most amount of power from the 6 wells roughly in the middle of the map

Idc how much effort it takes,

[topaz hedge]

plenty of other wells out there after you use those :p believe me when I say, you won't run out of oil.. at least not the way you're playing

[tight karma]

I know i wont

I just want to make the most use out of these wells, my use being power

[topaz hedge]

Then make turbofuel..

[tight karma]

Okay thank you

[topaz hedge]

Sulfur is limited, and turbofuel uses quite a bit. it's also one of those resources that can disappear very quickly.

[tight karma]

There are three deposits near those wells, one of them is enough to use up the 540m3 of crude oil

[topaz hedge]

I doubt you'd run out still but

[tight karma]

But there's one think I don't understand, i see people saying they're getting like 15.000mw out of 300m3 of oil, while with my calculations I'm only getting 9000-ish with my 540m3

[topaz hedge]

yes. because this.

or

[tight karma]

Hold up

That's 300 for 666 turbofuel

While I have 540 for 300

I'm surely doing something wrong

Ohhh i see

That's turning the diluted fuel which you get a lot more off into turbofuel

[topaz hedge]

that's 148 fuel gens on turbofuel . 22.5GW. on diluted fuel that's 64 fuel gens.. 9.6GW

[tight karma]

Holy sh*t

I think that's the diagram i need then

[topaz hedge]

that's a lot of fuel gens tho

[tight karma]

We have the space

But that's 22.5gw on 300m3 crude oil?

[topaz hedge]

666 / 4.5 = 148 * 150 = 22,500 yes.

[tight karma]

Wait so, gimme a min

[topaz hedge]

still, that's a lot of fuel gens. depending on your playstyle and goal, lots of time spent building it and 22.5GW can disappear really fast.

[tight karma]

So

With my 540m3

That's 40gw

It's so stupidly unnecessary for us I'm totally building it

[topaz hedge]

you say that now, but this little factory uses 50GW

[tight karma]

It's likely we unlock nuclear power before I complete that power plant

[topaz hedge]

Or it used to.. it uses less now since they reduced the power draw for machines overclocked to 250%

[tight karma]

May i have any questions planning things, can I DM you about them?

[topaz hedge]

sure

[frosty owl]

Bruh... Imagine making a post about "Sulphur is not rare" and claiming max Nuclear "just uses ~1800 Sulphur/min, maxing Supercomputers means running out of baux/quartz before Sulphur"
I'm not too surprised that they were using SCIM to run their numbers

[fair oriole]

i'm trying to build a 600 crude to turbo fuel, i have teh compacted coal, i have the water, i have the crude, i'm all the way to the 16 (in 8x2 config) blenders

i have a question on how to group the final refineries/fuel gens to most easily generate the turbo fuel and use it

it's 1600 fuel, which means at least 3 pipes, but could be 16, could be 8, could be 4

the math doesn't work out easily and i'm not sure how to best accommodate

i could under clock to get down to 20 fuel/min, and thus 5 refineries to use 100 evenly?

or 4 at 100% and 1 at 44.4444%

is there a reason to underclock all 5 as opposed to underclocking 1 out of 5?

[vapid gorge]

As long as they are clocked in such a way that it’s producing the numbers you need not really. The change in power consumption is negligible

[fair oriole]

not looking forward to setting up 70 more refineries, and then hundreds of fuel generators

lol

so far

[vapid gorge]

go nuclear then 🙂

[fair oriole]

lol

this is my biggest build buy FAR

it's also my first time doing trains

[wind spade]

Link?

[frosty owl]

@wind spade
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/11034ez/why_do_people_consider_sulfur_to_be_rare/j87hwxw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

[wind spade]

thanks. You could even sent them a plan with increased max sulphur to show that more sulphur = more SC

[oblique hollow]

solution: dont use the Super state Supercomp alt

[frosty owl]

Not a bad idea, but given they were used to SCIM, I'm not sure it would have been effective. I prefer discussion anyway, as I find switching between convo and SFTools quote annoying (so I try to repeat the relevant data via text)

[median heath]

Use base Super.
No Baux required 😉

[tropic hawk]

What recipes are you using? My turbo plant had about 4 dozen refineries and about 12 blenders and it used ALL of spire Coast oil...

[median heath]

Fuel Gens are where I find it completely acceptable to use Shards to reduce count.

Building 200 is so much simpler than building 500.

[tropic hawk]

Granted this plant had a little under 400 gens... Those were not fun...

[small eagle]

i just spent 2 hours planning out a very simple iron factory and then after i finished found https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

smh

[median heath]

Tools do be the best.

[wise sky]

what is a good place to build a aluminium factory?

[oblique hollow]

near bauxite and water

[fair oriole]

Heavy residual oil and diluted fuel.

[tropic hawk]

What turbo recipe?

[fair oriole]

Regular

[oblique hollow]

consider unlocking nuclear asap?

[tropic hawk]

You are using the normal turbo recipe when you have access to blenders? Why not turbo blend?

[oblique hollow]

maybe no turbo blend unlocked

[fair oriole]

It's 20 refineries into 16 blenders into 80 refineries into 592 fuel gen

[oblique hollow]

ew

nearly 600 fuel gens

[tropic hawk]

That's why I asked

[oblique hollow]

what are you, a masochist?

[fair oriole]

Blended turbo fuel uses more oil and less sulfur and no coal, I wanted more turbo fuel per crude oil since that seems to be a bigger limiting factor

[oblique hollow]

oil is less limiting here

Turbo us the prime sulfur guzzler production line

you can burn through all the sulfur every time before oil is your limit

especially when you dilute fuel

[fair oriole]

What do I need sulfur for other than turbo fuel

I feel like I'm only making one of these, if I need more power I'll go nuclear

[oblique hollow]

Batteries

which are needed for elevator parts and drones

and nuclear power

oh and everything weapons related

[tropic hawk]

Nuclear Power, Batteries, MFGs, WMDs.

[robust carbon]

Does not seem to bad, right?

Just sink a bit of packacked water

[ashen mantle]

Not bad, that's pretty much exactly the setup I have, I just recycle the water into the sulfuric acid

[summer yacht]

or use the water to make wet concrete

[wind spade]

Or any other water recipe or coal gens

[simple depot]

Making the heatsinks was the worst part for me

[fierce ruin]

overclocking helps sooo much in that, I'm doing that type of fuel build rn, overclock them to the end of the world

[fierce ruin]

buddy, his set up should produce 103600 mega watts, he won't need nuclar afterwards, plus you don't have to deal with waste too

[oblique hollow]

im aware, but doing close to 700 fuel gens simply is something i wouldnt ever recommend

the setup needed for 16 fuel gens is larger than the setup for a single nuke

and the setup needed top make fuel for 10 nukes (4 blenders and 5 manufacturers, ignoring the machines needed for control rods and encased beams) is even more compact

and waste recycling.....
6 blenders, 3 accelerators, 6 assemblers and 6 manufacturers handle all the waste for 22.5 nukes

[fierce ruin]

true, but some people do a full nuke setup, which uses all of the fuel power

[oblique hollow]

the nuke setup should fuel itself

you just gotta start it up slow

[median heath]

Or use Storages to jumpstart it.

[muted crypt]

@wind spade your calculator hates me lol

[wind spade]

rounded values are rounded values 🤷‍♂️

[muted crypt]

the rounding error with the coal going to make black powder causes 0.001 more coal to be going to the solid steel ingots, which make it so the display doesn't work properly if I disable iron ore on inputs because it's thinking it needs that iron

just find it funny more than anything

[wind spade]

ingots definitely can't get "0.001 extra"

it's more that the iron ingot input is not enough

it most likely needs e.g. 701.4871 or something

[muted crypt]

there is a rounding error on the coal going to make black powder

1 sulfur + 1 coal -> 2 black powder

because it's only taking 9.999/min to black powder instead of 10, it pushes the remaining 0.001 to solid steel

[wind spade]

it doesn't

it can't

every node gets exactly what it needs, or less

[wind spade]

yeah, but that's "0.0001 coal is missing", not "0.0001 coal is pushed elsewhere"

[muted crypt]

why does that coal go to solid steel then

which makes it assume that there's missing iron

I think you're missing my point, lol

[wind spade]

no it doesn't

you're not understanding how the tool works

[muted crypt]

greeny, what is 711.487 - 9.999

[wind spade]

you can't do math on rounded numbers and except exact results

all numbers you see are rounded to 3 decimal places

[muted crypt]

I am aware

you're reading four decimal places when I've never once specified four decimal places

[muted crypt]

here is where you did so

[wind spade]

it doesn't really matter if it's 0.001 or 0.0001

point is, you can never get more resources into a production

because the tool starts by calculating how many buildings you need

and then assigns resources

[snow dove]

is 9.999 a repeating decimal?

[wind spade]

so there's a hard cap on how much coal that solid steel ingot can get. And it can't get 0.001 extra

[muted crypt]

Right, so the decimal is actually 17.537175 machines. My point is the 0/min iron showing up that's making it so the visual will not display if I disable iron ore as an input

that's the whole reason I even brought this up in the first place

[wind spade]

because it's not 0, it's 0.000x something

your input is not enough

by a small margin

[wind spade]

which is what I said already here

[muted crypt]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=2TmAedVFjz7rVlsDGTEj

it's set to 701.487175 which is what it should be

yet still has the 0/min iron

[wind spade]

how do you know it should be this number?

[muted crypt]

701.487 / 40 🤷‍♂️ I dunno

my issue was never the math it was the fact that having a display like that just seems weird

I just brought it here because I don't know where the hell else you talk lol

[wind spade]

701.487 where did you get this number?

[muted crypt]

starting coal minus the actual amount of coal I know is needed for black powder

[wind spade]

it quite clearly shows it needs .488

(which is a rounded value, but it's .487xx, so bigger than .487)

[muted crypt]

if I am using 2/3 of an assembler to make black powder with this recipe it simplifies out pretty nicely to 10

[wind spade]

which once again brings me to "your iron ingot input is not enough"

[muted crypt]

10 sulfur, 10 coal

[unreal spire]

If you send 712 coal to this thing, it will stop having coal problems.

[muted crypt]

why, then, does your calculator display as 9.999 instead of 10

however, once again my issue was never with the math in the first place

[wind spade]

because rounding 🤷‍♂️

[muted crypt]

it was this

[snow dove]

9.999 repeating =10

[wind spade]

increase iron ingot input to 701.488

[snow dove]

(if it’s a repeating decimal)

[wind spade]

I said that from the start, your issue is "not enough iron ingot input"

[median heath]

This still hurts me whenever I think about it.

Because it shouldn't imo, but it does...

Like.. something that is not 10 should not be equal to 10...
And yet... math fuckery...

[muted crypt]

more and more confused the more I do this

what purpose do any of these lines even serve lol

[wind spade]

again, it's not exactly 0, it's some small number that when rounded to 3 decimal places rounds to 0

basically a number bigger than 0, but smaller than 0.0005

[muted crypt]

they shouldn't be there in the first place

I bumped up iron, just like you told me to, and look - it's doing even more whack stuff.

[wind spade]

they should, because it's the correct math

also I recommend to keep the production line as simple as possible. Making 15 products with things like this doesn't really help

[muted crypt]

it's simply what was ultimately being fed into the system.

All I did was add my amounts at the end of the line to this.

That is why those are there.

[wind spade]

the more stuff you add to the production tab, the more you have the chance to be off by 0.0001

whenever you see 0x[machine], it's not an issue, it's really what is extra

(you can hover over the machine to see the extra amount)

it's usually caused when you use the numbers from tools and do more math on them (like you did)

[fierce ruin]

@wind spade how to access your calculator

[wind spade]

#welcome has a link

[bold fox]

Well, 9.99 repeating plus epsilon = 10; 9.9 repeating isn't ten but is infinitely close as to be effectively ten for most purposes.

[small wharf]

i was wondering, how many coal generators can i feed with 1 270 line of coal? from my bad, quick math it seems to be 18? i'm not sure about that, so i hope someone can help

[median heath]

270/15

[tropic hawk]

then disable the recipe

[glacial summit]

Of course it's correct but those numbers are so miserable that they become useless and only confuse

[wind spade]

well the "issue" is in the player giving the numbers to tools, I don't really want to intentionally show "bad" numbers

[glacial summit]

No, it would just make the tool more comfortable to use

[wind spade]

again, I don't (and won't) ever intentionally show bad numbers

it's a calculator, they don't show you 6.8 when it's actually 6.7999999

I see no reason to introduce artificial error

[glacial summit]

Yeah so you can round it to 6.8 anyway, do it whatever you like

[wind spade]

except sometimes you don't want to round

[deft lichen]

make your own planner, the data is freely available with every game install

greeny, any reason why the building counts round to 3 digits and not 4?

[wind spade]

if the user adds 10.158 iron ingots input and the production needs 10.1581 iron ingots, why wouldn't the tool show that you need to produce 0.0001 iron ingot extra?

[wind spade]

historical reasons, it was like that since the tool became a thing and back then we couldn't do decimal clock speeds anyway so it was way more than enough. Didn't want to change much and new tools will have user settings for displaying numbers (how many digits to round to)

[deft lichen]

👍

actually, do they round or truncate the last digit?

[wind spade]

otherwise no reason in particular (and you could host your own tools and just change that one number to round to 5 decimals or whatever)

also, another reason - the solver sometimes works only on 3 decimals so I can't guarantee much more precision in some cases anyway

again, a thing that will change in new tools

[wind spade]

round

[small wharf]

Alright, thank you. This will help me a lot

[frosty owl]

If you put one unit of "fuel" in anything consuming fuel (power generator, vehicle...), it'll tell you how long does each unit last in the machine

[still owl]

so if you need 100 Adaptive Control unit and it take 2 computers how do many do you need

[median heath]

100 * 2 = 🙂

[still owl]

ah thanks

[muted goblet]

Im confused

[opaque oak]

Aren't we all?

But what are you confused about at this moment?

[muted goblet]

i didnt get the question at all and now its just 100 * 2

[opaque oak]

Each Adaptive Control Unit needs 2 Computers to build, and you want to build 100 ACU:s. How many computers do you need?

[mental patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[still owl]

https://tenor.com/view/rocket-science-complicated-difficult-challenging-math-gif-23793443

[versed violet]

I need halp. How do I make the video take full browser window? not popup, not full screen, use the whole window?

[oblique hollow]

no clue why.

[versed violet]

I'll... just ignore the existence of stream for couple hours and come back when the recording is on.

[cold jasper]

Whats wrong with full screen?

[deft lichen]

does neither clicking the fullscreen button or the video work?

[versed violet]

fullscreen also takes away my taskbar, and I requie its use for switching between things

ooh, figured it out.
You can go to 'settings' then pick 'popup player', which will open a new windows with just player in it and no chat, but then you can click the big 'twitch' text to see it on twitch, and then it opens the normal window with the intercative chat so you can finally see it like intended.

obviously youtube has a patent on 'click video to view the video' thing 🤣

[versed violet]

how long was todays stream? twitch cuts off at 1h26m mark for me?

[whole mist]

hey is there an easy way to divide by 10 with splitters?

[median heath]

Make 10 splitters?

[deft lichen]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[whole mist]

ty didnt know about this link

directly going in favourite lol

[robust carbon]

Then there are people who prefer this madness, aka sushi belts

[opaque oak]

That is some kind of ratio belt thing. Not plain sushi.

[robust carbon]

Doesn't that exactly create a sushi belt that's properly balanced

True, pure sushi belt can be whatever hodgepodge of items in one belt, but those aren't inherently useful imo

[vapid gorge]

Doesn’t look like the sushi balance systems I’ve seen

[robust carbon]

Alrighty

[vapid gorge]

They are very useful if a production system can fit all the items on one belt

I feed a four input manufacturer with two belt’s instead of 4

[robust carbon]

I'm planning of using sushi belt for my nuclear waste disposal for nitric acid and sulphur since they are the exact same amount

But I got hesitant as I couldnt immediately think of a way to handle cases where an output / input has failed

[frosty owl]

So you plan on packaging and unpackaging your fluids for Nuclear Blenders?

[frosty owl]

@opaque oak @vapid gorge That picture is something I haven't seen in a while ^^... You can find it in this post about @thorn bane 's Saturated Sushi Belts
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/rv0v5e/saturated_sushi_belts/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

But the concept behind it is quite cool: he basically figured out that if you "reverse" a load-balancer, you can "easily" create merging systems providing a very specific pattern of items as the output, including feedback loops of needed

[robust carbon]

That's what I always thought as a sushi belt, and everything before that wouldn't be very "trustworthy"

But I wish there was a merger / splitter that helped us do that kind of thing ingame instead of being so complex

Initially when I saw programmable splitter in the tree, I hoped that would have cababilities of making complex logic

A splitter with "I want 5/min of X to left, 5/min of X to right, overflow to center", and a merger with overflow output on top. 😄

[arctic willow]

i'm pretty sure literally everybody thought that

[pseudo garden]

there is a mod for that kind of splitters

[vapid gorge]

Ruin huge aspects of the game that way

[fierce cypress]

also just unnecessary

[deft lichen]

too easy

[frosty owl]

As Tomato said, such a contraption, in game, "simply" equals: machines with specific clocks making specific items whose outputs are merged
Personally, I appreciate how the latter poses more challenges than if the task could be performed by a single "merger object"

[frosty owl]

The most complex thing they can do is load-balancing sushi belts (atm)