math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

I had a tower of Oil -> HOR

on the right

That I split into pipes for the Blended Diluted fuel (bottom)

And then sent the dilute fuel to the refineries at the back

Since you wind up with 2x the plastic or rubber than you start out with I split the output from each set of refineries into 2 groups.

And based on the outcome I wanted it either got reprocessed into more recycled product or sent out as 'final'

[rustic patio]

so u use a linear layout?

[vapid gorge]

pretty much

It took a lot of scribbling on a note pad though to work out the logic and lay out

[rustic patio]

looks great!

[vapid gorge]

It's deleted now xD I hated it

[rustic patio]

so ur feeding the resin into the recycling?

[rustic patio]

oof

[vapid gorge]

I did yes 🙂

[rustic patio]

whats the new setup?

[vapid gorge]

this was the combined 9k plastic rubber and 10k Alum ingot plant

[rustic patio]

:O

[vapid gorge]

There isn't a new set up yet.

I've moved away from producing hubs that do low tier items like that and now I'm making them on site where they are needed

I learned a lot about piping though and how to do layout that look better for big factories

so not a total loss

[rustic patio]

so you have an oil pipe to everywhere u need oil products and manufacture on site?

[cinder silo]

My bauxite refinery is only half of my aluminium production, it only produces 4320 ingots so quite behind cobalts.

[vapid gorge]

Kinda? I plan factory locations so that there's minimal transport

[vapid gorge]

way ahead since mine is demolished xD

Twas yeeted with prejudice

[rustic patio]

true but like, sometimes ur far away from oil

and some oil is far awazy from other resources

[vapid gorge]

oh sure. I have a couple situations where I'm either going to run pipes under the train line or used packaged oil to move it

[cinder silo]

Shame, I'd say next save a lot of my stuff would be handled next to its mine then moved though, it would distribute my buildings more widely.

[vapid gorge]

like my new bauxite refinery I'm setting up needs like 980 oil - the oil in the Red forest isn't very far so ... an extra train station for just that would be annoying. So I have pipes under the main rail

[rustic patio]

makes sense, but i think ill keep with my setup, plopping down a full recycling setup everywhere seems more exhausting than making one big place

[vapid gorge]

my next bauxite + other thing is this. Basically the idea will be that everything that needs alum to be made will be made here

[vapid gorge]

Though that might depend on aesthetics. It is harder to make giant set ups look good

depends how much you care about that though

[rustic patio]

yes but i personally prefer building osmething once and using it throughout the game over having to do it all over again everywhere

[vapid gorge]

I get that 😄

[rustic patio]

plus its the spire coast, not much nearby to directly use it for

[cinder silo]

I only have an oil pipeline in the spire.

[vapid gorge]

I think my plan with the spire oil is to package and ship it? Not 100% on that yet though. Since it's one of those things where it'll make more plastic/rubber than the raw resources

[rustic patio]

NOOOO, it emptied out again 😭

@cinder silo can you take a look?

[cinder silo]

Drop some images or even a clip, I don't have much idea of what I'm working with.

[cinder silo]

Oh ow I see the yellow lights 😦

[rustic patio]

ill try to draw it

[opaque oak]

Not enought headlift in some section bringing the crude up?

[rustic patio]

isnt headlift binary?

[cinder silo]

There is a very small grace a metre or two outside of the max head lift on pumps, if you're in that then you will have flow, but it'll suck.

I had that problem in this vertical space, it was a swine to troubleshoot.

[rustic patio]

okay ill check my pumps

or

i have a suspicion

LMAO

😭

[cinder silo]

Found the fault?

[cinder silo]

That might explain the lack of oil.

[rustic patio]

yes

yes i think thats it. i guess i ripped apart my beautiful bottom feeding setup for nothig

[opaque oak]

Reload earlier save?

[rustic patio]

oldest save is like 30 minutes old, too late

[cinder silo]

Ow damn!

[rustic patio]

can i change how many autosaves to keep?

[cinder silo]

Only the frequency iirc, it always keeps a max of 3 then overwrites.

[opaque oak]

If you use manual saves and overwrite them instead of always creating a new one, you will have more backups.

[cinder silo]

I keep two manual saves, when I feel the project is good at that point I bring them both to parity.

[opaque oak]

%LOCALAPPDATA%\FactoryGame\Saved\SaveGames_backup

[rustic patio]

github

[cinder silo]

Then copy paste the whole save directory every so often.

[cinder silo]

Not sure my save file belongs there.

[opaque oak]

That directory should have lot of manual save backups, if you overwrite them.

And don't create new one each time and delete the old ones.

[last saddle]

omg is your factory on The Transition Between Rocky Desert And Northern Forest 🥺

[cinder silo]

I have a plan for a build at that location for space elevator parts, just for the hell of it.

[vapid gorge]

it's so common that a small mistake screws up the whole thing xD

[cinder silo]

Patches can as well, like when half my bauxite mines didn't work any more because they got disassociated from their nodes in an update (along with the impure uranium)

[opaque oak]

Because those nodes were completely missing for some time.
And were then recreated with new ID:s.

[cinder silo]

Still sucked, I prepared for the uranium by saving next to the mine so that got solved instantly, the baux, yeah that wasn't fun.

[vapid gorge]

Yup, just spent ages rewiring my power plant cause u6 broke a ton of cables

Then discovered Refined Power had an update which meant Re piping parts of it xD

[cinder silo]

At least you didn't black 27 buildings out by cutting a vital wire while digging up a lobby to redesign it 🙂

[vapid gorge]

Just blacked out my world xD

[cinder silo]

Problem with mods is their ability to bork a save when something changes 😦

[last saddle]

imo it's objectively one of the best locations if you want to stay local
i've looked over the map and honestly i can't find anything that compares

[cinder silo]

Rubber/plastic won't be an issue either, the nearby power station chucks out more than 1000 residue per minute.

[rustic patio]

oh btw, tunnelrat. i felt like the lack of oil i was experiencing was more than 300 so i went and checked all extractors. look what i found....

[cinder silo]

Added shards then didn't clock 🤦‍♂️

[rustic patio]

yep..

[cinder silo]

I did something similar with my turbo fuel station, didn't like the orientation of the extractor so I moved it, fast forward several hours and I found three shards in my inventory ..

[rustic patio]

the pain

[cinder silo]

It was only the simplicity of the oil feed that let me find the problem, because had I stuffed the thing up inside the refinery building it would have epic sucked.

Too many refineries to hunt through on two floors.

[rustic patio]

i hope we get the ability to remote control valves

and belts

[cinder silo]

I took most valves out because of the grief they caused me.

[rustic patio]

no i mean like, just benig able to toggle a pipe

that way you could have one switch room to sequentially start your fuel gens

[cinder silo]

I'd prefer it if a switch could standby the generators themselves in a group, that way they are primed and don't cough and splutter on startup.

[rustic patio]

ye something like that

i just want more control

[cinder silo]

Rebooting my turbofuel facility was a pain because I had to manually turn on 888 generators once I re-primed its loop, had to do it twice because I screwed up the first retrofit.

[tropic hawk]

For mass fuel gen (or any gen) if you just connect the circuit to a tripped circuit, it will automatically trip it, and once you disconnect it will still be tripped and won't start until you reset the breaker

[tropic hawk]

I have it, but it's a bit of a pain to set up.

[rustic patio]

how?

ah nvm

smart!

[tropic hawk]

Cables. Lots of cables and circuit breakers

It's how I set up my Re.T.M.I.N.Wa.F.N. facility

[cinder silo]

You misunderstood the power down, I manually shut down all 888 generators ON PURPOSE, to re-prime the while thing, then turned them all back on, it was not a trip, it was an 18h long retrofit, I produce four times the power I use, It isn't going to trip.

[tropic hawk]

I don't think you understood me.
When a fuel gen is on a tripped circuit, it still primes, but doesn't produce.
I create an artificial tripped circuit (biomass burners clocked as low as possible hooked up to a constructor) on a separate grid and when I need to prime/reprime generators I disconnect the generators from the world grid, then connect the fuel gens to the tripped grid.

[cinder silo]

Ahh I get it sorry, I didn't think of building a trip office that way, it would certainly be faster than spending ages and hovering for dozens of kilometres, it would take a wiring design change though because my fuel plant has a very integrated wiring plan to preclude knocking it out.

The killing power sources thing I stumbled across when I managed to blow a grid that had only 18 geothermal generators on it.

[tropic hawk]

Fair enough, I haven't looked at your power facility, but from what it seems like, I completely understand

[tropic hawk]

18 geothermal generators
Wait, what?

[cinder silo]

Here it is, although before retrofit, the main feed is flawed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rLV_YcVt8s

[cinder silo]

I managed to leave 18 geothermals dark due to hoverpack, connecting the rest of it and a lovely cascade blackout.

[tropic hawk]

I hate cascade blackouts...

[cinder silo]

I thought it funny that I managed to black out all the geothermals with one hoverpack, and later by extension 7200 power stores due to wiring a blown grid to the rest.

[quiet knoll]

If I have a high input demand for coal but I have the belts fully saturated as well as the machines, will that keep up?

[vapid gorge]

depends if you're providing enough right?

Like, can your belts keep up with the throughput? are your machines asking for more?

[manic fjord]

Need help here, I need to split a 105 units/min input to 1x 45 units/min- and 1x 60 units/min output.

[vapid gorge]

Manifold

Or have 2 sets of machines. 1 set that makes 105 and 1 set that makes 45

[manic fjord]

Manifold?

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[manic fjord]

Oh, I already have manifold used

[vapid gorge]

if you have X number of items on a belt you can just have all the machines use that item on the same manifold and clock them to use the right amounts

[manic fjord]

I'll look at it

[vapid gorge]

So if you have iron plate machines needing 20 of the ingots and rods needing 30 ingots when you are providing 50 it'll self balance

Your other choice is to just split the source of hte items into sets that make the numbers you need and have belts with the numbers you need from the start

[frosty owl]

@vapid gorge Why "trivialize"? I see it as an enhancement.

There's still instances in which merging machines is not the easiest way to obtain a certain amount of items/min -> load balancing would still have its places

[vapid gorge]

because it takes no effort then?
And when does an item stop being tagged? when it becomes a stack? how much would the game have ot keep track of maybe thousands of barcoded items

[frosty owl]

The latter are finer details that I don't think is worth fretting over now, but the effort part is setting up machines that can reliably output that amount. I think it's plenty of effort, considering the dependencies this can imply

[last saddle]

should i build a plate+rotor and frame+motor floor, or a plate+frame and rotor+motor floor

[deft lichen]

uh, rotor+motor I guess

since those are related

[last saddle]

the idea is that plates and rotors are secondary, while frames and motors are tertiary
however as you said rotors go directly into motors, while plates go directly into frames
the latter would optimize the purposing and layout of the floors, but would make tiering as i build upwards slightly confusing

[deft lichen]

I try not to separate stuff by floors

imo it leads to a lot of wasted space where some floors are crammed and some are half empty, just to maintain "consistency"

I just start at the bottom and make lines for one thing until I need another, continuing where there's space left

[last saddle]

makes sense
i'm doing a combination of optimizing both types of space
as you can see the far wall is not built yet since my iron nodes are not maxed out yet
i'll keep extending the plate and rod constructors that way until it fully utilizes the iron locally available
the output is taken near to where the input was provided - the rods to the screw floor above which has the same format
i'm not entirely sure how i want assembler and manufacturer floors to look but i want to keep the same spatial optimizations
separating in floors while having one or more open walls allows me to expand horizontally for these products without having to designate or plan out planar areas for each one

[tropic hawk]

The last one makes the most sense

My opinion is th have each floor dedicated to a particular item output, and while you will have some feedback from other levels, that is perfectly fine

[last saddle]

it's kind of funky though because like
you get plate > frame > heavy > fused > cube
and rotor (+ stator) > motor > turbo
and stators will be made in a different building
yet i still haven't accounted for computers
i'm not quite sure how i'll organize the higher tier products in the long run

[wind spade]

each product has it's own intermediate production, so you can put each factory anywhere you want

[last saddle]

true
i like primary products being localized though

[frosty owl]

Then "just" bring in the input needed to expand production where you have most of the items ready? That way you'd have most of the production in one area

[last saddle]

yea
i’m producing copper and basic copper products at the source as well as steel
and then i’ll be taking them to the iron facility for things that are not exclusively iron, copper, or steel

[fierce ruin]

has anyone ever tried to make a computer in this game? Not as in the part, but an actual computer made with the tools the game gives you

[cinder silo]

This isn't pc building simulator though.

[fierce ruin]

people build computers in everything lol

minecraft, DOOM, etc

i'm thinking the input would be an array of switches connected to whatever the logic is, and then the output would be the order of items on a conveyor line, for example

Are there any chains of production that loop back on themselves? Like, item A+ item b = item C + item D = item A, but with a lot more items probably

[wind spade]

it's technically possible to do since it's possible to build both and, not and or gates in satisfactory

practically it would be VERY slow computer

[fierce ruin]

all computers built inside of games are extremely slow 🤷

i think some in minecraft can take like 2 hours to do a single clock cycle

[wind spade]

what in minecraft takes one tick can in satisfactory take a few seconds or even minutes

[vague pawn]

Im new enough to the game. I have a reliþively efficient starter factory and i want to do a modular factory. I am just wondering if its a good idea to do one factory producing plates and rods and nails bring that back to a central storage area and if another factory needs plates or rods just produce them at that factory or should i split the outputs of one factory and bring it to another. I hope that makes sense.

[wind spade]

I personally prefer "one factory that makes X from scratch"

[vague pawn]

And then just split that and send it where it needs to go?

[last saddle]

i think what they mean is every factory is designed for a final product
e.g. if you need an hmf factory you make modular frames at the desired location instead of importing from your frame factory

i understand and like this approach but prefer to have a central multipurpose factory instead

[wind spade]

no, then just send it to final storage

[vague pawn]

Ah ok thats what i was planning on doing but didnt know if it was going to work

[vague pawn]

I tried a central factory before it just got painful after a while

[wind spade]

anything can work if you try hard enough 🙂

[vapid gorge]

except maybe vertical pipe manifolds

[rustic patio]

i used these things to transport all the oil, they used lots of beams, glass and hand rails. should i tear them down to appease the performance gods?

[cinder silo]

Up to you, how potent is your pc?

[rustic patio]

3070 max q and i7 11800h, quite good id say but not crazy

i want to use most of the resources on the map though, so im very paranoid that bad habits now will build up to fuck me over later

[tropic hawk]

Are either of those bottoming out or is your RAM the issue?

[cinder silo]

My save is ever so slightly over the object limit and I still have so many resources to tap, just build and have fun.

[rustic patio]

i dont have any issues right now

[cinder silo]

How much ram btw?

[rustic patio]

16gb

[cinder silo]

Ow yeah you won't be exploiting everything with that,

[tropic hawk]

You are gonna need more

are you on PC or Laptop?

[rustic patio]

cant : )

laptop

[wary pebble]

Check my first aluminum setup that is very organised and clean

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/loads-shotgun-gif-18026290

[cinder silo]

My save does this,

[wary pebble]

As ugly as it is

[rustic patio]

but i use arch linux so i have quite a lot of the 16 available

[wary pebble]

it works

[tropic hawk]

fair enough

[tropic hawk]

now the true question... how well?

[cinder silo]

No slot to toss in another SoDimm in the laptop?

[wary pebble]

pretty well

[tropic hawk]

I meant in end production efficiency rates

[rustic patio]

i think i can put two more in

[bronze silo]

guys, when riding a train whats the clearance height so my view is not going through walls please?

[rustic patio]

so i could double to 32 or if i remvoe the old ones maybe go to 64

[wary pebble]

i think 160 casing and 240 alclad sheets

per minuite

[tropic hawk]

trains are best suited for an 8x8 path, but you can shrink it to a 6m base and 8m height

[cinder silo]

Tbh SoDimms aren't expensive and your processor is still reasonable, granted slightly less power than the desktop version but you're not on a potato.

[bronze silo]

8m, good to know, thanks

[tropic hawk]

What is the average efficiency rate?

[wary pebble]

idk

ill check

[rustic patio]

okay so it has two spaces for ram

[wary pebble]

if i know what you mean the percentage is 72%

[tropic hawk]

Not bad

[wary pebble]

for some reason my aluminum scrap refineries only run when there is like 25 aluma in them

even when they have all the coal they need

[tropic hawk]

does it ever run dry of alumina?

[wary pebble]

no

[tropic hawk]

and how much alumina does it take per cycle?

[wary pebble]

actually it does sometimes

[tropic hawk]

well thats why. it has to refill a bit before it starts the process back up

[wary pebble]

i see

well even with that its still efficient

[cinder silo]

To be honest we'd need to see the setup before being able to diagnose the flaw, kind of like watching this place.

[tropic hawk]

no. It is functional. Efficient would be if your average end process efficiency was above 89%

[wary pebble]

well it works and thats good enough for my first aluminum factory ive ever made

ok well i added more water and everything seems to be running well

[vapid gorge]

@remote lance this is probably an easier place to talk pipes

[bronze silo]

is this cannon optimal?

[vapid gorge]

test it and find out xD

[bronze silo]

I did

and learned that it was sooooo hard to slow down, lol

[cinder silo]

Slowing down isn't an issue, just put a tube entrance at the end of the cannon.

[bronze silo]

I meant whilst in mid air, lol

I way over shot, lol

[cinder silo]

Oh one of those cannons, yeah I don't use them because control isn't really there.

[rustic patio]

if u have a jetpack u can reliably go anywhere with them

but i prefer using them as boosters in a normal tube

[sand epoch]

Cannon flight rocks.

[cinder silo]

I just don't trust the yeet so I stay with regular supersonic travel.

[sand epoch]

Jetpack for unknown landings.. and a nice wall. Hoverpack for auto-stoping in known factories
🙂

[cinder silo]

Trouble with going supersonic is walls are often insubstantial.

[sand epoch]

Also why i save before traveling 😛

[cinder silo]

Glad I just built a cannonway that innervates the map.

[rustic patio]

can someone that knows trains tell me if this owuld work?

[fierce cypress]

seems fine

[opaque oak]

Should.
And the dual rails can be foundation width closer without any issues.
And even closer if you take care at turns.

[rustic patio]

i want to make it my hypertube highway too

so the plan is to put tons of hypertubes in the middle to get everywhere

thats why i left the gap

[opaque oak]

Check.

[vast jungle]

I am looking for an idea how to break down the thermal propulsion rockets into more easy to handle chunks... How did you attack this project?

[oblique notch]

One part at a time.

[vast jungle]

Hmm

[frank plover]

carefully

[oblique notch]

Seriously. Use a calculator online to get the number of parts needed for each step, and build each one as it's own building. Route the parts out of thete to where they are needed in the same complex. Slowly building up to what you need.

If each part is too big for you to handle at one time, modularity is your friend. Build in banks of 10 or 20 machines at a time

[vapid estuary]

@vast jungle have you taken care of modular engines?

[vast jungle]

I never built permanent factories for the space elevator parts in phase 1-3... Not enough to produce 😉

But modular engines should not be difficult

Turbomotor were a pain to automate 😂

[cinder silo]

Urgh don't remind me I need to automate more turbomotors when the space elevator is rebult.

[vapid estuary]

I think that might have been an error. All of phase 4 builds on phase 3. I made a note in Concepts (infinite-canvas iOS app) that illustrates the production chain. One sec...

[cinder silo]

At least they took this bit out a while back after phase4 was done 🤣

[vapid estuary]

If you've automated turbo motors, peeling off some motors to feed modular engine automation should be easy enough. It's the cooling system that's your next big hassle

oh wait, that's in turbo motors. nvm. you should be nearly there

i personally use trains for raw or slightly refined material handling, so the "how do I get rubber there" question is a matter of a train schedule

[cinder silo]

I'll just keep a very small number of the motors aside and drone the rest, I really cba automating that twice.

[merry yacht]

Guys i wanted to automate computers so i need like 290 plastic what do you think will be the best reginery layout for it? i calculated that i need like 14,5 refinerys for it with the standard recipe maybe somebody of you got an idea xD

[tropic hawk]

Best is relative. What are all the recipes you have for the oil processes (all of them, even if they involve fuel or rubber)

[merry yacht]

i got all of the alternate recipes ^^

[cinder silo]

This is how I laid out my computer factory, it also produces super computers & radio control units.

[tropic hawk]

your best bet is to do a HOR-> Diluted Fuel/Residual Rubber -> Recycled Plastic/Rubber loop to maximize your oil

[tropic hawk]

must... resist... sushi...

[merry yacht]

HOR? o.O

am i dumb

[cinder silo]

For low throughput it made the most sense.

[merry yacht]

ah heavy oil residue

[tropic hawk]

Heavy Oil Residue, the alt that primarily produces HOR and a byproduct of Poly resin

[cinder silo]

The old way was really bad before sushi!

[merry yacht]

i will look what i got available at my spot when im at home i think i just got 2 impure oil nodes or something like that xD

[tropic hawk]

all you need for what I mentioned is oil and water

[merry yacht]

wtf bro xD i need like 100 refinerys xD

[tropic hawk]

only 100? not that bad

[merry yacht]

XDDD

[tropic hawk]

Oh I am dead serious

in one of my bases, I'm gonna have over 200 refineries just for purification alone, and thats only tapping half of one biome

[barren elm]

Moments like this I really have to wonder why people are so opposed to mk2 buildings

[merry yacht]

bro i will have like the whole map as refinery xDDD

[tropic hawk]

there is this neat thing called Overclocking

[barren elm]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[tropic hawk]

if you do that, you have your clockspeeds set way too low

[wind spade]

people are not. CSS are

[tropic hawk]

Balance namely. For high end processes there needs to be a challenge

[barren elm]

I'm sorry but the idea that setting up 200 refineries is "challenging" is embarrassing, it's just laggy and annoying

[barren elm]

Fair

[tropic hawk]

if 200 refineries are laggy, you need better equipment

[cinder silo]

One argument "for" mk2's would be greater throughput and keeping the object count down, thing is where does the inflation stop, not worth it in the end imho.

[mystic moon]

If we had mk2s, mk1s would need a nerf imho

[cinder silo]

Talk about choice being an illusion, no thx on nerfs ..

[mystic moon]

Yeah exactly, and then mk3s would vmbe the next thing people wanted

[cinder silo]

Which is why I stated "thing is where does the inflation stop, not worth it in the end imho"

[barren elm]

3, it stops at 3, 3 is a great number

People love game design concepts that come in 3s

[opaque oak]

Radical idea: Mk2:s that double everything, including the building size?

And Mk3 then doubles again to four times the original?

[barren elm]

And then by mk15 we can fulfil my dream of turning the whole game map into a refinery

[tropic hawk]

That would be stupid, because two buildings would take up less space...

[mystic moon]

It would have to be double the size, 4x the cost, triple the speed

[boreal edge]

is there a way to get clean numbers while making heavy modular frames? ive tried everything but nothing comes out the way i want to.

it's my first time trying to make them and i just need a few to start building trains, manufacturers, etc

[oblique hollow]

what recipe? standard?

theres also alt recipes for the other parts

but in any case: no, not really

heavy frames are just ugly

you could try 12/min but that still gives ugly numbers for steel ingots and also its a HUGE factory

[wind spade]

underclocking can give you nice ratios

[oblique hollow]

with pure vanilla recipes heavy frames are always a bit ugly in the low production numbers

[oblique notch]

It has nothing to do with challenge. It's because what will mk2 offer? Increased output? Automatic faster oc? Which means new buildings and new assets and tons of work for their small team... when OC already covers whatever mk2 would do.

And mk2 would be the obvious immediate choice once unlocked and all the mk1 would stop being used because Underclocking exists. Meaning once unlocked most players would feel they had no choice but to upgrade their entire factory.

And then all those mk1 assets would be unused.

All for something that Overclocking already does

What else could a mk2 building do? Make it more efficient? Use less inputs? That throws off the balance and guess what... alts already exist to do this.

Over clock higher? What's the point.

[tropic hawk]

I'm with you on this. I was just doing a quick example why it's pointless.

[oblique notch]

And to anyone who thinks you have to have 200 refineries... no. You don't. you think you do, but nothing in this game is saying you have to produce 1000 turbo motors a minute or something ridiculous.

If that's your goal, produce an obscene amount of ppm, then go for it. Have a blast. But understand that the game isn't telling you to do so. In fact it's kinda telling you not to because of how many bldgs that requires.

[oblique notch]

100%. There are also other design choices that CSS could do rather than just "bigger numbers go zoom". Same thing applies to mk6 belts. Yes I know the mk3 miner output, but there are more options than just bigger numbers. 2 output ports. Cut the amount a node offers by x% and cut all recipes the same so the ratios and balance remain the same but just everything is smaller. Change the mk3 to require water input and have it directly output ingots. Or have it output waste + ore and thr waste can be refined into additional ore thst matches the missing amount.

There are soooooo many other solutions and the knee jerk "gimme bigger numbers" is the most basic one.

[oblique hollow]

people really love "number go up"

thats their inner capitalist / hoarder at work

[proven ember]

how do i perfectly balance Crystal computer??

[tropic hawk]

Carefully.

[tropic hawk]

Do you mean production? If so are you trying to balance output? If so to what? We need more details on what you are trying to do

[proven ember]

Crystal comp, made from insulated crystal oscillator and quartz crystal... im having problem with numbers, I cant get the exact numbers on splitters, the only option is directly connecting manufacturers to assemblers but that will probably screw up Oscillator balance

[sand epoch]

Exact numbers on splitters? Stop chasing cars, embrace the manifold

[proven ember]

manifold is boring, splitter in front of every machine, idk I just dont like that

[cinder silo]

There are cars to chase?

[vapid estuary]

how many do you hope to make?

[oblique notch]

If you want to balance across belts, you are welcome to do so but you won't find a lot of aid here unfortunately.

Have to figure out the ratio of parts you need and how it can break down then build a splitter network for it

Embrace the mergeback.

[vapid estuary]

"crystal computer" recipe or just the two you mentioned?

[cinder silo]

Load balancing can work but if you're after exacting numbers then you need to increase production until the math works.

[proven ember]

I was hoping 10/min but then I need 10 Oscillators and 26,67 CB/min which is impossible, so the only number I can actually do now is 7.5 or 15 (7.5 Oscillators and 20 CB or for 15 the same x2)

crystal computer alt recipe

[vapid estuary]

since that makes 3/min may i suggest a multiple of 3? say, 9?

[proven ember]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_Computer_C"%3A"7.5"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_Computer_2_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CircuitBoard_1_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_CrystalOscillator_C"]}

it's not 3, is 2.813

i tried all other numbers

assembler in game says 2.813 PCs per minute, website says 2.8125, I believe the assembler tho

[vapid estuary]

ya. I don't see the hard part though, this is a small amount of machinery and many of them round up to multiples of 3, which fits since you don't care for manifolds. So what are you struggling with?

[tropic hawk]

Then run the numbers to find the least common multiple

[proven ember]

^^doing that right now, or something similar

[proven ember]

well, if machine needs 3/minute and if it gets 2.813/minute that's not 100% efficiency

[vapid estuary]

consider working backwards. Put down final construction, then the thing that feeds that, then the thing that feeds that, till you get to whatever your input materials are. I dunno if you at least have hot & cold running ingots or what

[proven ember]

yea in this case I really should go like that, it would make way more sense, but now i'm here, so I have to figure it out

[vapid estuary]

As ever, efficiency needs a very specific definition. The two broad choices are using all of a resource, ie the extractor never stalls, or keeping final production 100% busy. The intermediate stages are never round numbers, and if you care about that, the thing to do is underclock them to fit the scenario.

and as soon as you tack on a new stage, eg super computers, all your prior work is out the window or part of a new efficiency problem, so it's always nice to have slack capacity

key is to always oversupply

/soapbox

[snow dove]

the key is to match supply*

[vapid estuary]

"why are my refineries stalling"

[snow dove]

a. not enough input
b. too much output

[vapid estuary]

we'll just have to differ on that

[proven ember]

that

[snow dove]

i mean this is literally the only answers to why something isn't working

other than not connecting it right, not powering it, not configuring the recipes

[vapid estuary]

with pipes there is a whole other class of problems, that I'd describe as flawed construction technique

[proven ember]

oversupplying is nice but kinda too easy, just plop down the machines, connect them with belts and voila

[snow dove]

flawed use of pipes by the player

[vapid estuary]

well, i have a limited amount of time to play the game, so my playstyle is oriented to saving my time

speaking of....

[vapid estuary]

that is what i meant

[snow dove]

fair, how you play is ultimately entirely up to you

[proven ember]

true, all youtubers play like that as well

[vapid estuary]

hence, oversupply. ferinstance, i'm short on power so today's session is going to be refinery hell

I will pull apart Stin Archi's most recent savefile to learn some construction techniques once I'm bored. total amazeballs

[proven ember]

Stin is nuts, I love his design, we all do probably

[proven ember]

done some math and how I'll play in T7 and T8, 7.5 computers it is, I dont think I'll need more than that

[rustic patio]

cackles in bottomfeeding, pump using, buffered mess

[cinder viper]

oh splitters

[agile pier]

Oh splitters. Both a boon and curse upon my mental well-being

[cinder viper]

this is correct

[wind spade]

Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior manifold?

[cinder viper]

but efficiency 😦

[wind spade]

Manifolds are efficient

[cinder viper]

dont they waste some resources tho

[wind spade]

No

The resources are still there

[cinder viper]

but if I have a manifold wont the constructors at the end of it not get enough resources

[wind spade]

No

[agile pier]

Manifold works yes

But. I have a strong hatred for it because I want everything working at peak efficiency immediately.

[wind spade]

Machines at the front fill, so rest of the resources overflow to the last machines

[agile pier]

I don’t want to wait for it to fill

[cinder viper]

it just takes some time for it to work efficiently, goooooootcha

[wind spade]

You can hand-fill it

[cinder viper]

yeha or that

well i guess im scrapping this bogus splitter setup or something

[agile pier]

Depends on what that splitter setup was for

[cinder viper]

quartz

[wind spade]

I mean it's just another way to play, I was just recommending manifolds to save you headache from building balancers

[agile pier]

This is true. Manifold does save headache

[vapid gorge]

Then hand feed some stacks of material into the machines.

[fierce ruin]

When you're working with over a thousand items per minute, manifolding is your friend

Specifically, 1680

[opaque oak]

Didn't mean double each dimension.
Meant doubling the volume.
My idea was just to make the width double, do it takes the same space as two previous ones side by side.

[wind spade]

that still means "it's equal to two machines or one overclocked"

for no additional gain, that seems like a waste of CSS resources

[opaque oak]

Yes. Basically only benefit would be uobject count reduction.

Didn't say that is was good usage of time.
Just put out one that didn't change anything in the balance and just lowered uobjects used for same production.

Which was being talked as one of the benefits from faster machines at the time.

And no way should they go for that until possibly after 1.0

[wind spade]

if they want to reduce uobject count this way, why not buff mk1s instead

[vast jungle]

whats the point in terms of gameplay if all machines suddenly produce more? They could just reduce the costs of "non-machine input" processes instead (cost for building, number of parts for research or the space elevator)

MK2 factories don't help people who want to build big factories...

[wind spade]

I mean reducing everything is basically the same as "buff machines"

machines suddenly do more in relation to how much they did before

[vast jungle]

yes... similar to just reducing all production/min and consumption/min numbers in the game by a factor of 2 would solve our belt/pipe problems without changing factories

half everything, add a MK6 belt with 600/min. in Tier 9... done 😉

[wind spade]

aren't belt problems already fixed and pipe problems are more of a people problems?

[rustic patio]

Things don't work at peak efficiency while you're building it either 😼 just consider the manifolds filling up a part of the building process

[vast jungle]

think about the "OMG my fully overclocked MK3 pure node miner is useless" problem

by halving the rate the necessary MK6 would be well inside the capabilities of the current engine

main issue would be belt costs... because they cost 1 item/segment, which cannot be easily reduced...

[wind spade]

that seems like that person's problem again. there's enough resources on the map

[vast jungle]

its mostly a people problem... and a problem that there is a combination of available machines/resources/overclocking that is unusable, which is a bad thing from a sandbox game perspective

[opaque oak]

How long a belt segment can be for 1 resource could be doubled. Keeping the max lenght the same, halving the cost per lenght unless doing 1 item belts now.

[merry yacht]

@tropic hawk i mathed something out bro i use the heavy oil residue to power 7 fuel generators and i shred the rest of the HOR just to min max the output of the fuel for the generators and it works great thanks for the help bro!

[wind spade]

I mean, max OC heavy flexible frame needs 975/min screws and I don't see anyone complaining about that 🤷‍♂️

[vast jungle]

a funny alternative would be a "belt compressor/uncompressor" building, that can turn every item into a "10 items on a pallet" one... easier for the belts to handle, but adds options for long range belts

[vast jungle]

390/min???? okay, it seems I never used this recipe.

the number of people complaining on the MK3 miner thing but not the HFF OC suggests people run a lot more into the former problem than the later one 😉

[wind spade]

or that the solution of "build more" doesn't occur to them (which tbh is the case in most "how do I produce more" questions)

[vast jungle]

or maybe producing the items for a MK4 belt is painful enough that people don't want to include Oil into the input... Oil and Screws!

[wind spade]

screws are fine and oil items are basically free given how much you can get out of single node

[vast jungle]

Screws and Wire are just the first item with 500 stack size... they can be a pain with MK2/MK3 belts and manifolds. But most people get over it at some point

[wind spade]

that's why you don't manifold them

[vast jungle]

I still remember my 1st playthrough... building a LONG manifold from Iron-Wire to a Steel-Rotor line... this thing took ages to balance out 😄

painful lesson ^^

Quickwire production (and even Copper Alloy) can surprise new players too because of their high output... but thats also a valuable lesson

[tropic hawk]

My pleasure!

[merry yacht]

guys a general question how you move the ore from the miner to the factory? i have like selfmade pillars all around the world and conceyors everywhere is that the best way to get it done or do you have better solutions?

[wind spade]

build factory where ore is

also, trains, drones belts, trucks, ...

[cinder silo]

Belts to underground tunnels.

Depends on the Ore and proximity to manufacture.

[merry yacht]

lol wtf how did you got it to the udnerground

[vast jungle]

there are several methods getting under the map... including going over the coast in the South, using the few holes in the map or using trains of hypertubes...

[cinder silo]

I'm not known as the tunnel rat for nothing 😛

[rustic patio]

Wow this is creepy

[cinder silo]

Works though.

[rustic patio]

Yes but I mean the music + the way it looks gives very creepy vibes

Some alien being came down from space and sucks all the resources out of the surface to bring them underground into its lair

Could be a horror movie

[cinder silo]

It is easy to get totally lost in those tunnels.

[opaque oak]

Needs more signs?

[cinder silo]

The whole reason for the ongoing retrofit to move all the power cables off the ceiling.

[frosty owl]

Or that people like to complain without even bothering to view the full picture
I never noticed anyone mentioning they wished they could output all the biomass alien proteins can make :P

[oblique hollow]

HFF?

heat fused frame?

[frosty owl]

Btw, Flexible frame (390 screws/min) and alu scraps (can't recall which one) are the only "relevant" recipes that may be limited by belt speed (the scraps by output)

[oblique hollow]

oh flexible frame

[oblique hollow]

default alu i think

that one does 360/min

[frosty owl]

Math checks out, so yes

[vast jungle]

I think CSS should really consider dividing all rates in the game (input/output/transport/build-costs) by 2... and then add a MK6 belt with 600/min 😉

[snow dove]

that’s too easy (and wouldn’t really help much)

[fierce cypress]

👆

although it is similar to what they plan to do with pipes afaik

[vast jungle]

it would at least solve the problems that prevent a MK6 belt with 1200/min at the moment... and it would solve the problems with the pipes too... AND it would not change the balance in the game

[opaque oak]

We will see once they are ready to roll the next tiers into the game.

[snow dove]

how would it fix the belts or pipes?

[fierce cypress]

less items/min - less floating point errors

[snow dove]

ah

then it’s a fair idea

people would still transport massive amounts of items and still encounter those errors though

[fierce cypress]

not per belt

[hazy dune]

would this work as a 2/5 left and 3/5 right splitter?

it would but the numbers were wrong anyway

[primal flicker]

I think that gets you a 5-7 split. 1/3 of the left track gets cycled back in with a 50% chance to go right. Right?

[hazy dune]

i need to swap the outputs

yeah

what i thought was create 6 outputs then merge one back

so i would do a 2 split then two 3 splits to get 6

on one of the 3 splits it is needed as it one needs to go back then merge the other 2 lines

on the other it isnt as it'd merge back anyway, that my thoughts

[primal flicker]

Just use underclocking to balance demand instead of balancing supply.

[hazy dune]

not really possible

im sending reinforced iron placed to modular frames at 9/min

but im making 15

i dont make them anywhere else so im relying on that to go to storage for things like belts

[primal flicker]

Just set it up so overflow goes to a container without starving the mod frames.

Easiest with a smart splitter, but doable without.

[hazy dune]

im not manifolding it

[opaque oak]

But I think it is time to stop this gas transport via rail test... So I can work on the final system.

Still going strong.

[wind spade]

Merge machines that make 9 in total together

[merry yacht]

@tropic hawk it makes tickets, computers and energy what do you want more XD

[tropic hawk]

Nice job!

[merry yacht]

thx bro ^^

[frosty owl]

Nope, the setup made by @hazy dune is correct.
Is splits in 1/2 first, then in sixths.
One of the sixths is merged back making it a 1:5 rather than a 1:6 (or 1:7)

[hazy dune]

Thought I was right

[hazy dune]

120 belt, how could I split it 45, 45, 30?

[oblique hollow]

split in 3

[hazy dune]

I’m thinking to use splitting 30 belts into 15 and merging them

[oblique hollow]

no wait...

[fluid yacht]

yo

im new here

[oblique hollow]

split in 2, then split one of themin 2 again

[fluid yacht]

what dis game about

[oblique hollow]

building funny factories and having headaches

[hazy dune]

Crunch numbers, get headache, make factory

[fluid yacht]

fair

[hazy dune]

And please your ficsit bosses

[oblique hollow]

and pet doggos (unless they bring you nuclear waste)

[wind spade]

you can also just use single splitter and it will balance itself

[simple pawn]

For some reason my power grid shut down im not sure what happened, i have 8 coal generators, 120 coal per minute, and 3 water pumps i also didnt build anything what could have happened

[primal flicker]

OK. I'm going to have to look at that kind of thing in more detail. I've just been manifolding everything so far.

[hazy dune]

I’ve only every manifolded my output belts which I need to do more often. Never manifolded an input before and probably never will do

[hazy dune]

He says in his last message! Since this is coming from a truck unloaded that might just work for me so I’ll give it a go

[primal flicker]

What happens if you split three ways, then put a splitter on the 30 leg to divert 1/3 back to start and merge the other 2/3?

[hazy dune]

if i split 3 ways i get 3 90 legs

[oblique notch]

120, split twice > 60each. Split each of those twice > 4 lines of 30. Take one of those and split twice > 3 lines of 30, 2 lines of 15. Merge those two back into a 30 each >2 lines of 45. 1 line of 30

Or... split 3 ways and wait for thr system to balance itself out with half the aggravation and only a tiny but more time. Like serious, if you prefilled and then wander off to something else it will balance and it will be like it never wasnt

[oblique notch]

No, that's impossible. 90x3 =180. You get 3 lines of 40 from a mk2 belt being split 3 ways.

Which if you just use thar, your line that needs 30 will "backup" and be full. At which point the splitter will skip it, and only output to the other two lines, giving them ~ 60 each. This is more than they need so they will catch up. Then, after 10 mins or so... it's all running smoothly.

[hazy dune]

No

[oblique notch]

I say ~60 because as the 30 line needs some it will pull some

[hazy dune]

90x2=180

[oblique notch]

... yes

And you said split 3 ways

[hazy dune]

You said *3

[oblique notch]

No

[hazy dune]

You said 90*3=180

[oblique notch]

Oops lol.

OK 270, still more than the 120

[hazy dune]

Yeah

40 belt then

[primal flicker]

120 to 40/40/40, then split the one you want to be 30 in three; merge two back together, send 1 back to merge upstream from the first split. Wouldn't that give you 45/45/30? You just need a short Mk3 for the recycle flow.

[oblique notch]

40 split 3 ways is 13.33333333. So no. That will not work if you're trying to do a perfect split.

No mergeback is required hwre

Mergebacks are only required on odd ratios:. 45 45 30 are all multiples of 15, as is 120, and 15 goes into 120 an even number of times (8) so its a pure even split.

Now of you had 100 and you wanted to get 20 out of it somewhere, that's an odd split (1:5) which does require merge backs in order to achieve

[rocky glacier]

I'm solidly mid-game rn, just unlocked adv. steel production, is it worth using all smart splitters in manifolds or no?

in my head, it makes more sense, but I'm not sure

[oblique notch]

No

[wind spade]

it makes manifolds fill slower

but it's not a big difference

[rocky glacier]

alr thanks

[wind spade]

and after it's filled it will work the same anyway

[oblique notch]

The only point smart splitters are useful in a manifold is if you're overproducing for your consumption - and even then you just have one with one port set to overflow

[cinder silo]

For standard manifolds no, if you're doing sushi however, hell yes!

[rocky glacier]

makes sense

[oblique notch]

Unless your Sushi belting

Heh. What taro said

[cinder silo]

I was slow at responding because well, Vodka!

[elder cypress]

What's the proper way to set up sushi belting? I have tried it before only for the system to clog up with one of the materials in the line which then caused the overflow to dump everything else.

[cinder silo]

Everything that goes in must also be able to overflow, in my setup I merge the input overflow with the buildings output and sort it later at the next step in production or the auto-warehouse as shown in the clip here, anything that overflows past this place is sunk at the end.

[shadow cave]

Hi guys new here and have a question, fuel generators consume 12 fuel/m at base, ive just got into turbo fuel and am confused. how much turbofuel a minute do they consume? is it still 12?

[wispy tiger]

Turbofuel is like 4.5 units per minute?

[cinder silo]

TF is 4.5 per minute

[shadow cave]

Thank you, i either missed it on the wiki or its not there

[vapid gorge]

On the fuel gen page

[hybrid star]

Howdy, back to the game after a break. Current world has most tech. I'm scratching my head at how to do the pipework on 780 bauxite to however much aluminium scrap I can get. Eventually its all getting turned into heatsinks. I've been trying to use the Sloppy Alumina and the Default scrap recipes but its not clicking with me how it should work. Can anyone give me a pointer on how it should breakdown. I'm considering just dumping the excess water into the quartz crystal recipe but there would be an excess and shockingly the nearest limestone would be a headache to bring in

Anyone know what to do with that issue?

[snow dove]

you can use a planner tool

[hybrid star]

the tool doesn't seem to break down the pipework, it just says this much excess water is made and somehow it can proportionally fit back into the initial line of refineries but doesn't explain how

[snow dove]

that’s kinda however you want to do it

just make sure you don’t surpass the cap on pipes

[oblique notch]

Actual layout doesn't matter much, unless you're trying to recycle the water amid the same machines producing it which is difficult to do without hiccups.

Otherwise just send the waste water on to new machines to use

[hybrid star]

yeah, recycling is the issue. unless they revamped fluids a lot things are tricky

[oblique notch]

No, but fluids are not as hard as people think.

The easiest solution is to not mix the waste water with new water. Just have a new set of machines taking only waste water

[hybrid star]

its easy on a 600 line with default recipes because the math is easy but on 780 line with sloppy not so much

[oblique notch]

Use more than one pipe line

There is nothing that says you have to have all the lines connected. Nor even all the belts. Nor even filling up the belts.

[hybrid star]

yeah I know, the issue is the ratios but I can't figure out what amount of underclocking will work

[oblique notch]

You're overthinking it 🙂

X refineries
Y Waste water per min per refineries
Z water consumed per refinery (no the x set)

(X*Y)/Z will net you some number like #.##

The .## is the percent one machine either needs underclockdd to, over over locked by

So if your calculations come out to say 6.34 machines, then you either need 6 and the last one at 134 or 7 and the last one at 34

If the calculator says how much waste water is being fed back into the system, just devide that by the amount a single machine would consume to figure out how many you need

so in your example, you have this:

well, you're using sloppy, but the same thing applies.

so here, just to be correct:

it says its feeding back 468 m3 water / min.

Sloppy takes 200 water a minute

468/200 = 2.34 - so you need either 3 machines, one UC to 34% or 2 machines, one OCd to 134% - to handle your waste water alone. It should never be fed by water.

I would personally just do 3 machines all at 100% clocking. Sure that last machine will be running on and off, but you never want your waste water to back up.

[hybrid star]

I think that might work, you end up with a 560 pipe, it gets messy at the second stage though because you produce 900 something alumina so it say moved the load balancing forward to the next stage

I was trying to do that earlier, you end up with x amount in one set of pipes and y in the other set and you have to combine them to hit last intake and then fluids are fluids in satisfactory

but it could work 2 severley underclocked machines

[hybrid star]

ok think it works,

It looks a horror right now and I will have to sort the load balancing out for the output but it seems to not go idle every so often

[pulsar drift]

Is there a way to turn off underclocking in https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production ? Or set custom clocks per building, or per group?

[rustic patio]

BLOCKS

is this too much?

[pulsar drift]

Do you plan to have lots of short trains trying to follow each other closely? If not, then this is probably overkill

[oblique notch]

More blocks means shorter follow distance

If you need more tightly coupled trains add more. If you don't, you can get away with less

[rustic patio]

i want lots of trains and i plan to have them all be 5 long (if locomotive is included)

[pulsar drift]

You'll have to build it and tell me the results! I plan to have a short-train network with minimal belts myself.

[rustic patio]

are bidirectional hypertube boosters possible?

[cinder silo]

I tried, it didn't work for me, the failed experiment did let me develop the hypervelocity brake though.

[pulsar drift]

Somebody posted one on reddit recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/zcpucr/while_building_my_railway_network_bridge_and/

[rustic patio]

i couldnt really get a good look at the design, is it possible to place them any closer than this?

[cinder silo]

No acceleration though, that's how I learned to develop the brake.

[rustic patio]

oof

[cinder silo]

The opposing entrances spill all your speed.

[rustic patio]

how did the person in the video do it then?

yep doesnt work

hm, this here supposedly works

[opaque oak]

He had a booster, then gap, then two-directional normal hypertube, then gap, then another booster.

And he smacked into the second end booster in the end.

[cinder silo]

Not quite as flawed as my attempt but not great.

[rustic patio]

would u just do two lines then? or is there a way to make bidirectional work

[cinder silo]

I use two tubes, also evades that stupid against the grain bob you get.

[opaque oak]

The boosters at each end shoot you over the 2-4m gap to the bi-directional hypertube.

And you stop in the gap at the other end.

single-direction boosters at each end, shooting you into a normal bi-directional hypertube.
Booster> | gap | entrance-hypertube-entrance | gap | <booster

[toxic solar]

If I don't have ANY fuel alt recipes, is this pretty much what I want to do to keep up production without getting backed up from fuel over-production?

[opaque oak]

Yes the lower plastic refineries will only get crude if the fuel refineries aren't needing it.

As long as the bump goes over the fuel refinery input port level.

[left fractal]

hi guys i need help

[oblique hollow]

just state your problem

[left fractal]

yes im uploding photo lol to explain my problem

so i got 3.9 refinery fo aluminum

3 full and one is 90%

3.9 refinery for aluminum Scrab

output water of those is 468 per min

780 water permin needed

for the refinery Aluminum

cuz 468 water output back to refinery

how do iget 780 water perfectly in the pipes

[opaque oak]

By either splitting the water using refineries into separate sets of fresh water and recycled water using ones.
Or doing black magic.
And when the water usage is that high, doing it by splitting is easier.

[left fractal]

is this good way ?

the mk.1 pump pumps the water that come from the outage refinery

[left fractal]

sorry i didnt get it how should i do this

[opaque oak]

https://old.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/wjbf6j/aluminum_water_recycling_split_water_ratio/

[left fractal]

is this for 780/ Bauxite?

[opaque oak]

It is generic ratios, you need to calculate your own implementation.

[left fractal]

idk how and what to calculate

[opaque oak]

I don't have time or energy right now to teach it to you step by step.
Just the normal calculations to make a production line with one step split into two separate blocks.

You need some combined amount of Aluminum Solution produced.
You have certain amount of byproduct recycled water to use.
You calculate how many aluminum solution refineries you can run with that recycled water and put that up and over or underclock one to get everything to match.
And then you see how much more aluminum solution you need and set up that second block with right clock speeds and fresh water feed.

[last saddle]

is there a list of every essential part that requires some form of iron

[left fractal]

why not pumping

[left fractal]

ohh got iy

[left fractal]

my problem is this

now pumping water

[opaque oak]

How would I be able to say anything based on just a pump UI screen shot?

[fierce cypress]

no flow rate

[left fractal]

the pips are full

[fierce cypress]

it is pumping correctly - the only problem identifiable through that limited ss is the lack of flowrate

[left fractal]

yes look

[opaque oak]

So you didn't split the water into separate systems

[left fractal]

no cuz it wont work

[fierce cypress]

ah i didn't see more info above

[opaque oak]

and it is now clogged, so the pump won't pump because everything is full.

[left fractal]

like i get 360 from the outwater

and 360 can run 1.8

[thick plank]

@left fractal do a vip water junction. Lemme search out a video. Then you produce more water then what is needed, have the refinery output water as vip and feed the other one into it as well

[fierce cypress]

also don't try to load balance pipes

[opaque oak]

So you run 1 @ 100% and 1 @ 80%

from fresh water.

[fierce cypress]

for piping manual

[opaque oak]

Without mixing the recycled and fresh water.

Because you would need a VIP for that.

[fierce cypress]

segregated systems are the best

[left fractal]

yes

[fierce cypress]

no valves/pumps needed, remove them as they will only cause issues

[left fractal]

and it will like get 360 buxaite

but i have 780 buxaite

[fierce cypress]

so build more

are you doing sloppy alu + default scrap?

[opaque oak]

You keep the total scrap production the same

[left fractal]

okay i did remove

[opaque oak]

You just have 1.8 alumina refineries with fresh water input and 2.2 refineries with recycled water input.

[thick plank]

Ok this is a vip junction

Not my design, just making this clear

[fierce cypress]

mcgalleon's

[thick plank]

As i said, i just searched it out because soneone needed it

[fierce cypress]

need, have as an option

[opaque oak]

Very simplified VIP: #screenshots message

But again, the separate water loops would be better in this case.

[fierce cypress]

separate loops ftw

[left fractal]

for whiche one should i use that VIP

[thick plank]

True that should work as well. I dont really engage that much in pipes, i really hate them. Usually when I do something with water i just overproduce and dont engage with waste water. For example in my copper factory i would need 6 full ml 2 pipes and use 8 instead

[fierce cypress]

you shouldn't, you should separate the water systems

[thick plank]

The one that is on the bottom/doesnt have the peak should be your scrap water, the other one your fresh water

[thick plank]

You should overproduce your fresh water

[left fractal]

the mk .2 pip got a 2 water extractor 600 ml

[opaque oak]

And again you have some completely weird screenshot that you cut half off.

And no idea why you posted it.

[left fractal]

yeah cus i should do that to send them fast

as each s creen shot have like 5MB

and mu internet is s*

[thick plank]

How much water does each single full refinery need?

[left fractal]

200

[fierce cypress]

120 iirc

[thick plank]

Found the numbers

[left fractal]

so i got 3.9 refinery fo aluminum
780/200 = 3.9

[fierce cypress]

you need 60% of sloppy refs to run on recycled by-product water, and 40% to run on fresh water

[fierce cypress]

2.34 on recycled and 1.56 on fresh then

[left fractal]

im trying just to use all 780 Buxaite

[thick plank]

So your going to di the following: you will make one long piece of pipe at exactly the hight of the output from the refineries that loops around your refineries in a U. On the open end of the U where the input lies you will add a full water pump. Then you will connect your outputs to the long piece of the U to the other side

[fierce cypress]

you will still use 780 bauxite

[fierce cypress]

just do this ^ its very simple

[opaque oak]

Check which aluminum recipes he is using.
He hasn't told.

[thick plank]

From there you will also connect each input with the U. Then you go past the first input from the pumps perspective and add the simplified vip junction before the 2. from the pump

[opaque oak]

Might be default ones.

[fierce cypress]

sloppy + default scrap

[opaque oak]

Check.

[fierce cypress]

as always

[fierce cypress]

@left fractal correct?

[left fractal]

yeh

[fierce cypress]

told ya

[fierce cypress]

@left fractal just set it up like this

[left fractal]

like 60% set one refinery?

[thick plank]

That would require 5 refineries though, waste of space and resources. I would advice to use the u with da vip junction

[fierce cypress]

no, have 2.34x refs running on the byproduct water, and 1.56x refs running on fresh water

[left fractal]

like this ?

[thick plank]

Wait, ill do a skizze

[fierce cypress]

1. overclocking is a thing
2. space and resources are infinite in this game
3. vip is more complex and prone to failure - separate systems are very reliable

[left fractal]

i need to remove like allot of drone port and silica factory for this

[opaque oak]

I personally use VIP:s, but I cannot recommend them for a person who cannot design one themselves.

[fierce cypress]

why?

[opaque oak]

Trying to cram everything into a megafactory with too small footprint, and not using height?

[left fractal]

if i need to do this want more then 4 ref

and not enough space

[opaque oak]

one overclocked

1x 100% fresh, 1x 56% fresh, 1x 100% recycled, 1x 134% recycled.

[fierce cypress]

and in your ss's you have a 1 tile gap - you have plenty of space

[thick plank]

@left fractal
Blue is flow direction, black is refineries. Green is waterpump and red is priority junction (the simplified one) with the not fresh water having priority

[fierce cypress]

or just do the same thing, remove the red and overclock far right ref and underclock 2nd right one

[left fractal]

i can add here

[thick plank]

1. overclockign costs power and slugs
2. Resources cost time and time is not infinite
3. Anything with pipes is unstable, the simplified vip junction from @opaque oak should not be that bad cause its not complicated

[fierce cypress]

those are all kind of nothing points

[opaque oak]

Even better to put the VIP before all the refineries.

[thick plank]

Wouldnt you need a valve between 2 and 3 then? Cause you have to seperate flow directions? Im not that sure if that makes peoblems, but intuition tells me that it would

[thick plank]

I mean yeah, that works as well

[opaque oak]

No valves. Pipes self-balance.

[thick plank]

Ok, didnt know that

[opaque oak]

Ah, he just said the wrong place to cut the pipe

[fierce cypress]

no? why would there be separate flow directions

[opaque oak]

Would need to be the middle one that is removed to get the separated & clockspeed adjustment.

[thick plank]

Not really. You dont have infinite resources cause you have finite time in this game.

[thick plank]

One flow direction from the pump and one from the extra water

[fierce cypress]

you have next to infinite resources

1 ref is nothing

[thick plank]

It depends on how much you have automized everything. If you have a strong factory for the needed resources youll have enough. If you dont have that large a production it can take time. Also something not to forget in terms of larger factories is the increased time it takes to construct more refineries just cause you ned to constantly get new resources

[fierce cypress]

@left fractal

[thick plank]

Yeah, in this case its not much

[fierce cypress]

exactly - literally nothing

[opaque oak]

I would think that split in the opposite direction would be more power efficient?

[thick plank]

In this specific case not. But im also proposing my thing not just for this one situation but also for further situations when he plans to increase his production capacity. Or create new factories etc. This entire production effectivly costs nothing cause its small. Others will cost more

[fierce cypress]

probably slightly, but thats just the concept

[thick plank]

Especially when he gets to the nuclear stuff

[opaque oak]

Only basic difference is the single slug used (with the opposite split)

[fierce cypress]

no, it will almost always be a difference of 1 ref in this case

[left fractal]

STILL GOT water not move

[fierce cypress]

yea, i realised that after

[opaque oak]

Or single extra refinery.

[fierce cypress]

that also works if you have the space and slugs

[opaque oak]

We don't know what you currently have.

[left fractal]

110 power shards

[fierce cypress]

then 2 should be fine to use

[left fractal]

nothing just a pipe

[fierce cypress]

use this setup but change the order to 100%|134%|56%|100%

[opaque oak]

And that will not work as combined system. Because the fresh water will overproduce and prevent the waste water from leaving refineries.

[left fractal]

like here but removed the pumps

[opaque oak]

you need the split system, or the VIP on the fresh water pipe.

[fierce cypress]

and shift the input pipe connections to the left

[left fractal]

and valve

[fierce cypress]

that won't change bad pipework

[opaque oak]

It just removed some completely useless parts.
It didn't fix the actual problem.

[left fractal]

i did split it

[opaque oak]

Then you need to empty the clogged output buffers.
Open each scrap refinery and drag the water to trash.

[fierce cypress]

just flushing the recycled pipe loop should be enough

you might have to do it twice

[opaque oak]

Yes, that is just another way to get the output buffers to empty state.

[fierce cypress]

but its less tedious

[left fractal]

2 ref on full and one on 34%

[thick plank]

with any recepie that produces water? On any scale? Its one refinery and one to two extra snails per unit, and depending on the recepie your using you can reach the max size for a unit rather fast (limited by pipes, conveyors etc)

[opaque oak]

It is either single extra refinery, or 1-2 slugs. Not both.

[fierce cypress]

always 2 in this case i think

[thick plank]

yes

[thick plank]

in this case either 2 snails or 1 refinery

[opaque oak]

No, with with the overclock on the recycled side this would need just single slug.

And because the single slug gives 50%, it should probably be always doable with same refinery amount and single slug.

[thick plank]

Your method works, im not questioning that. Im just proposing another option that also works and costs less

[fierce cypress]

shards not slugs

[fierce cypress]

its doubled on the scrap ref too

[opaque oak]

Ok, sorry, meant shards in all cases.

[thick plank]

yes. I had faith in you understanding that

[opaque oak]

Alumina could be shared.

[fierce cypress]

the whole point of this system is the 1:1 ratio

[opaque oak]

Yes, but you could still put the OC and UC aluminas with balancing connection to two 100% clock scrap refineries.

[fierce cypress]

i disagree on the 'costs less' part, and also think that my example works more reliably

[opaque oak]

And leave the other two with direct connections 1-1

[fierce cypress]

yes that is true actually, i have done that before

[opaque oak]

And save the power and shard on the scrap refineries.

[left fractal]

guys

[fierce cypress]

i gather the two weird clockspeeds and combine to a 100% ref

[thick plank]

its one pipe in a wierd shape against either shard or refinery

id say that one is less then the other

[left fractal]

i really lost in that imma dismintall everything and tell me what to do step by step

[fierce cypress]

VIPs are unreliable in my experience, even the creator doesn't advice using them

and the extra 'costs' are insignificant

[opaque oak]

Arguing on pro's and con's of the two alternative solutions.
And you haven't shown the new piping on the input to alumina refineries side.

And haven't told if you emptied the recycled water side to get it to unclog.

[thick plank]

there are always minor losses and things working wierdly or a bit worse then what the maths say

[opaque oak]

That complete one is a horror, and currently any valves cause VIP to not work in my experience.

[fierce cypress]

the point is the separate loops system is a lot more reliable, simple and avoids these issues

[thick plank]

as is the difference in reliability. Wich is wy I already stated both work

[opaque oak]

The simplified ones seem to work fine, but need more variety.

[thick plank]

mine doesnt nees valves

[thick plank]

wait a sec, have to switch trains

[opaque oak]

They don't, but I don't remember if the "original" complete one used valves.

[fierce cypress]

the original used pumps - no valves

assumedly to reset headlift and force flow direction

[opaque oak]

Yes.

[fierce cypress]

both can work yes, but VIPs are significantly less reliable, so im not sure what you're saying

[thick plank]

I mean what percentage are we talking about? Cause I always loose percentages without junctions or anything. Im unsure if you actually loose even more or if you just take the extraordinary object in your chain as the problem instead of the chain as a whole

[opaque oak]

So you haven't shown the new piping on the input to alumina refineries side.
And have you emptied scrap refinery water buffers to trash or flushed the recycled water piping to get it to unclog.

[fierce cypress]

are we talking about efficiency percentages?

of machines?

[opaque oak]

Like we asked for you to.
Because if the system is now correct on the alumina refinery input side, the waste water unclogging should get everything working.

[thick plank]

yes

[fierce cypress]

as i said i am not denying that they can work, but they can be very unreliable - just because you have a system that uses them and it works does not change that fact

[thick plank]

basically how much downtime do you have more due to VIP junctions in comparison to without VIP junctions

[fierce cypress]

that is very case by case

usually 100% downtime since the VIP breaks and the system gridlocks

which is almost impossible in a separated system

[thick plank]

ill be home in 30 minutes. Should I build a test for the two specific builds we are talking about, let it run for an hour and then check it?

[fierce cypress]

as i said it is very case by case - working for you =/= working for everyone

[opaque oak]

Yes, the problem with VIP:s is to get it to work reliably.
Which is why I personally use them because I like them.
But I don't recommend them to others without also the other option.

[fierce cypress]

i agree with baldur on this ^

apart from the using them

but that is personal preference

[opaque oak]

Once you get it right, it keeps working, but getting it to work can be pain.
And if you don't know what you are doing, then just trying to copy is a bad idea.

[thick plank]

basically: if it works it works, if not use something else

[fierce cypress]

even if it works ive had VIPs fail after hours of functioning properly

[opaque oak]

That usually shows up quickly if you monitor the output buffers.
Even when the full clog would take long time to form.

[fierce cypress]

which is why i just avoid them now, if i need 1 more ref so be it, its very far from the end of the world

[fierce cypress]

i monitored it for ~1hr, came back ~6hrs later and it was broken

[thick plank]

fluids are wierd. My oil plant has small deviations from the mathematically base wich already twice accumulated strong enough to crash the entire plant. its not an issue with vip junctions but with fluids generally

[left fractal]

i did

still same

[fierce cypress]

but this was in a more volatile pipe era with fluid void bug and all that

[opaque oak]

So pic of the water input piping to the alumina refineries.

[fierce cypress]

well ive never had any issues like that

[left fractal]

i dismintal everything

[fierce cypress]

what do you mean by small deviations from the mathematically base?

[thick plank]

i just put three buffers on the pipes and its stable now

[fierce cypress]

buffers generally will not help

they fall into the same area as valves - do more damage than good

[opaque oak]

Then you had non-functioning VIP that you hid with the extra buffers evening the imbalance between cycles.

[thick plank]

i mean i produce 25 more fuel then needed, all generators ard full, i turn em on, about 50 hours later a quarter of them had no more fuel inside and it all crashed

[opaque oak]

Flow problems.

[thick plank]

i had no vip used

[fierce cypress]

sounds like user error to me, not an inherent pipe problem

[thick plank]

just a long pipe

[fierce cypress]

mk2 w/ 600/min?

[left fractal]

so guys 780 Buxaite

[thick plank]

dont have the exact numbers, gotta check in game, but a bit unfer 600

[left fractal]

what best way for sloopy aluminum

[opaque oak]

As said previously and still:
Option 1: Split water cycles with under/overclocking or extra alumina refinery with underclocking/underclocking. Easier to get working and then just works.
Option 2: VIP junction with combined water cycle. Harder to do, and might cause problems down the line.

I still personally use VIP:s, but they really need more knowledge about how the fluids behave in this game.

[thick plank]

whatever you like more. either this one:

[thick plank]

or this one:

[fierce cypress]

@left fractal

here, updated version

manifold the baux along the front 4

[heavy gust]

the numbers, what do they mean

[fierce cypress]

clock speed

100%|134%|56%|100%

[heavy gust]

oh thats a % sign, looks like a 1

[thick plank]

why do you have 2 machienes? im a bit confuswd

[fierce cypress]

yea ^^ clarification

[heavy gust]

was reading 1001, 1341, 561, 1001

[fierce cypress]

one for alumina solution, one for scrap

sloppy alumina is the bottom row, default scrap is the top row

[opaque oak]

And this is also possible.

[heavy gust]

cant wait to get the aluminum alts so i can make a simpler production chain

[fierce cypress]

the diagram is for the fluid only

[thick plank]

ah. Right, thats not the same machiene. Im a bit stupid sometimes

[opaque oak]

Hmm... wrong percentages on that somewhere.

[fierce cypress]

👆 probably better

[fierce cypress]

its 390% total - not 400%

[opaque oak]

Yes, was just checking.

[fierce cypress]

this is the simple production chain

[opaque oak]

So fixed

[heavy gust]

i dont want to constalty have to ship in silica

[thick plank]

Tomato. Im really confused. Are there two of you or why do i have two seperate pictures?

[opaque oak]

I just copied his picture and did edits.

[heavy gust]

for now i value efficiency in setup time over maximum output

[fierce cypress]

i made one and baldur changed it to save a power shard

[thick plank]

No i mean profile pics

[left fractal]

🥲

[fierce cypress]

what about them?

[thick plank]

This confuses me

[fierce cypress]

discord glitch - top is my main pfp, bottom is my one for sf disc, it should only display the bottom one on this server

[thick plank]

Ok. I love disc. I switched devices and now i was wondering if there are actually two users in this chat

[fierce cypress]

[opaque oak]

So fresh water feed from the bottom right.
And then the waste water system starts as empty and gets filled by the fresh water to alumina to scrap side.
And then the waste water fed side starts to work.

If the scrap ever clogs, the system will usually break and needs flushing of the waste water side to get running again.

So often you put a smart splitter with overflow to sink on some point so that it cannot do that.
I put it after the ingot production, sending extra ingots to sink if they didn't go onwards.

[fierce cypress]

i actually don't have an overflow sink anymore

i got rid of it, it should be fine hopefully

[opaque oak]

It is fine as long as the scrap doesn't clog. That was just something to make sure of it. Optional extra to make sure downstream stuff doesn't cause issues.

[left fractal]

noo all scrab will be

aluminum Casing

[fierce cypress]

it should never clog, but the next overflow sink is like after it has been processed into cooling systems and stuff

[left fractal]

Encased Plutonium Cell then sink it

[opaque oak]

Yes, same here. If the aluminum casings keep getting used and don't clog, then the aluminum ingots will not clog, and then the scrap will not clog.

[left fractal]

yeah im doing this cuz i got like big place full of waste

[opaque oak]

And single input stages are basically completely reliable.
So a overflow for the casings would be good idea in this case.
Between the casing production and encased plutonium cell production.
Or just no overflow at all.

If you trust the non-fissile uranium will be produced at correct rate at all times.

[left fractal]

oh yes like i dont have that much nuclear

only 5 of them

[fierce cypress]

nuclear at 12.5GW? wow

im double that and nowhere near nuke

[left fractal]

oh yeah lol i dont have mga factory like i did 80% of this save hand craft

[left fractal]

MW actually lol

[fierce cypress]

12.5GW = 12500MW

[left fractal]

oh yes lol

[heavy gust]

im at 15, next step is nuclear

dont see the point in going through the efford of making another fuel plant when i could make a nuclear one soon for way more power gain.

[fierce cypress]

im going for another fuel plant

why not

and i want to do completely waste free nuclear from the get-go

[heavy gust]

i dont realy care about waste. Ill probably just end up deleting it with the save editor

or see if a mod exists that has a better solution than the base game

[opaque oak]

Just reprocess to Plutonium fuel rods and sink,.

[heavy gust]

i dont like that process

dont want to do it

[wind spade]

what don't you like about the base game solution?
you either process it to plutonium and sink (waste-free but lower power) or you make plutonium and burn it for more power and some waste

you are not forced to do nuclear either

or do plutonium

you can just store uranium waste

[opaque oak]

And yes, there are some mods that allow other options.

More or less cheaty ways.

[heavy gust]

it jsut doesnt feel complete to me, realy hoping for a higher tier solution in 1.0.
sinking valuable resources feels shit, and so does having waste.

[left fractal]

about the pipe for water

[wind spade]

again, you are not forced to do nuclear. If you do nuclear though, you'll get tons of power, so there's the balancing factor of having to deal with waste

[left fractal]

any pump needed?

[heavy gust]

or i could just delete the waste with an editor :D

[wind spade]

you can easily just build big turbofuel plant and call it a day

[opaque oak]

Just for height differences, like any water pipe.

[wind spade]

well there's always a cheat solution, but I'm not talking about that

[opaque oak]

If the extractors are lower than the refineries.

[heavy gust]

doesnt feel like a cheat to me, as i said the process does feel unfinished.

more of a "ill delete it untill a better way comes up"

[opaque oak]

If Phase 5 does bring some further use, then you already have the process up and can just remove the sink.

[wind spade]

the process is most likely finished, devs seem to be happy with this

[heavy gust]

that would be ideal

[wind spade]

I don't think that giving use to waste is a good mechanic

waste is supposed to be a nuisance, not a benefit

[opaque oak]

Meant for the plutonium fuel rods.

[wind spade]

they already have use tho 🤔

either burn them for power or sink them for tons of points

[opaque oak]

And again, I didn't say if it would be good or bad idea, or ever happening.
Just that if Umbranocturna did set up the reprocessing and sinking, then if later update brough additional step, he would be ready.

Tried to trick him into setting up reprocessing 😉

[heavy gust]

Nuclear is in the highest tech tier in the game, and i would want the best tech to have no downsides.
Going from Biomass to coal makes the game easier.
going from coal to fuel makes the game easier
going from fuel to nuclear makes the game harder <--- ?????

[opaque oak]

Nuclear is optional.

[fierce cypress]

all increases in power generation come with an increase in complexity

[heavy gust]

its like you work towards that goal to setup the next solution just to have it be more anoying than the current one

[opaque oak]

And diluted fuel and turbofuel both are much more complex than previous ones.

[fierce cypress]

not to mention having 'the best tech to have no downsides' is just a horrible idea from a game design and balancing standpoint

[wind spade]

how is fuel easier than coal?

every new power is step up in complexity in exchange for more power produced

[heavy gust]

easier as in produces enough power, such that you dont have to worry about consumption

[wind spade]

(excluding biomass which is the "tutorial" to show you power of automation)

[prisma kraken]

it can save some time on building more power quickly

[wind spade]

nuclear produces WAY more power, so it makes the game easier

[prisma kraken]

honestly you can 'win' the game on coal power

[heavy gust]

but thats how the rest of the game works, no?
you go from belts to trucks, wich have less of a downside
then you go from trucks to trains, wich dont realy have any downside

[prisma kraken]

its just hard to build enough coal power to cross the 10 gw mark

[wind spade]

no. That's not how it works. And both trucks and trains have downsides

[heavy gust]

whats the downside with trains

cheap to build and high throughput

[wind spade]

more power usage, higher complexity and space usage

[prisma kraken]

trains take a lot of time to build

[heavy gust]

belts and trucks take longer

[wind spade]

belt you just drag and you're done, simple enough

[prisma kraken]

and a lot of power and steel

[wind spade]

115 MW per train + 50 MW per station and platform

vs 0 MW per belt

[prisma kraken]

i can't say that long distance belt runs are simple, lol

[heavy gust]

try running a 9 belt highway for multiple kilometers

trains are simple

[wind spade]

they are simpler than trains. you just drag a belt and you're done. Yes, it takes some time, but you don't have to worry about throughput, signalling, platform delays, etc.

simplicity means "less things to think about", not "faster to build"

[prisma kraken]

there's tradeoffs to each tech

[wind spade]

indeed

the whole game isn't about "unlock new stuff to replace old stuff", but "unlock new stuff that are useful in different scenarios"

(again, ignoring biomass burners)

[heavy gust]

gues im playing wrong

i just demolish the old solutions and replace them

[prisma kraken]

it also really depends on your starting location

[vast jungle]

Iron Plates never go out of fashion ^^

[wind spade]

yeah (and later you make them from steel and oil)

[prisma kraken]

grass fields & dune desert, you really kinda need some sorta transport infrastructure

[vast jungle]

especially the Dune Desert

[prisma kraken]

likewise nuclear isn't strictly better than fuel or coal