math-and-meta

[wind spade]

tip: place down space elevator

[tropic hawk]

The space elevator needs a 7f×7f floorspace

[wind spade]

for real tho: just play the game at your own pace 🙂

[vagrant fox]

well the space elevator needs 50 smart plates so im trying to figure out a production line that can make enough of each item to make the smart plates and still have some left over

[tropic hawk]

Someone said this, not sure who, but it was figure out the way the game wants you to do something, then once you know, ask the community to find all the different ways, then use what you think is the 'best' way

[oblique notch]

Use foundations when you unlock them. At first do all your belts with only 90* turns (right angles) it will look 100x better.

Don't worry about what you might need, just build what you need for whatever your trying to produce. Pick a new part and build a factory for it.

Wear sunscreen.

[oblique notch]

Not to build it... just to unlock the next tier

[vagrant fox]

yeah

[tropic hawk]

A good plan is to make temporary production for SE parts at that phase, then once you need more and more you make more and more permanent factories

[vagrant fox]

i did that and that was just the one i made at the start. i made a bigger platform and now im just trying to figure out what would be more efficient to put on the platform

[tropic hawk]

I recommend using a lookout tower placed about a foundation away, that makes placing the SE much easier

[vagrant fox]

ight thanks

[next crane]

I will try it out

[glossy aspen]

Just gotta do nuclear pasta now

[tropic hawk]

Heheheheheheh

[glossy aspen]

Thermal rockets were a bit easier than I thought but it used like 10% of all of the nodes

for every material

[tropic hawk]

PCCs are gonna kill you

[glossy aspen]

PCCs?

If you mean copper powder I'm just sinking 3 belts of it

and I already have a bunch of conversion cubes because I use them for alt recipes

[tropic hawk]

I mean Pressure Conversion Cubes

[glossy aspen]

oh yeah I already got those

[tropic hawk]

Already got the surplus amount you needed automated or backlogged?

[glossy aspen]

i think I have 20 p/m for one factory and 15 for another so I have a good 15 per minute to spare

I have a good 5 manufacturers just making turbo motors with em

After I automate those I'll probably just automate a good 780 fuel rods a minute just so I never haft to worry about power

[cinder silo]

Good luck automating 780 fuel rods.

[glossy aspen]

I'm unsure if its possible but at that point I'll probably just use a mod to spawn in nodes just because I've used all of em

[tropic hawk]

Do you know anything about the limitations in the game?

[glossy aspen]

I've seen a few mods that allow you to place pures down so

[tropic hawk]

That's a mod

[glossy aspen]

Also it'd probably be modular, making 78 per factory

[tropic hawk]

Wait, I know you...

[glossy aspen]

So my world doesn't explode. Also at the point that you have no more nodes what are you to do

[tropic hawk]

Ah yes, you were on that server. Let's block you...

[cinder silo]

Huh?

[tropic hawk]

If you want the full story I'll send you a DM, but I cant discuss it here without violating discord rules

Same with you @mystic moon

[cinder silo]

Go for it.

[mystic moon]

Sure

[glossy aspen]

Anyways I'd probably need to spawn just a few nodes in as I'd need 46800 caterium, 62400 copper, 63765 coal, 63765 iron, 10530 limestone, 46800 sulfer, and 78000 uranium.

[glossy aspen]

I mean if I think I know who you are all I did was dis your nuclear processing system

@celest rune depends on if you are just using the plates, rotors, and screws for storage or to make something later down the line.

[celest rune]

50/50 some for storage some for factories

[glossy aspen]

What tier are you in?

[celest rune]

1-2

[glossy aspen]

Have you progress further in any other save?

[celest rune]

yes. 7-8

[glossy aspen]

Great, didn't wanna spoil anything.

[celest rune]

i handcrafted my way

[glossy aspen]

How much iron again?

[celest rune]

480- 4 pure iron nodes

[glossy aspen]

Well lets see

[celest rune]

whats the best ratio-

[glossy aspen]

I don't know how I could ratio some of this out as it goes into the decimals so you'd probably just use overflow from splitters to section everything out.

[celest rune]

?????????/

i am confusion

[glossy aspen]

Manifold

[celest rune]

ah

[wind spade]

ratio of what?

[glossy aspen]

Iron to factorys

[celest rune]

for screws, rods, plates, roters, and reinforced

[wind spade]

well depends on how much of what do you want to make 😛

[celest rune]

for screws and rods and plates 50/50 for storage and factorys

[wind spade]

screws aren't used in any buildings apart from awesome shop so I wouldn't make those

[celest rune]

i use mods

[wind spade]

good for you

[celest rune]

alot of screws are needed

[wind spade]

figure out how many screws you need then and build that much 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

Eep! that.

Naa screws aren't THAT bad, though I still eliminated them from my current build.

[mystic moon]

🪛 s

[wind spade]

but for real, screws are as fine as almost any other item

[mystic moon]

U2 meta

[fierce ruin]

It is used for computers and heavy modular frames tho

So they are kinda important

[noble timber]

Computers arent a building

[wind spade]

that's part of computer and heavy modular frame production line tho

that's not "produce screws"

[fierce ruin]

Oh I thought you were telling him to not incorporate screws into his factory

[cinder silo]

I prefer the caterium computer recipe.

[fierce ruin]

hey will 1800 steel ingots / min be enough to get the phase 4 parts in a reasonable time?

[tropic hawk]

Define reasonable

[fierce ruin]

10 hours each

or less

preferably 7.5 or so

(at the same time)

[tropic hawk]

I don't remember the recipes for each of the objects, but knowing late game, I would say probably not.

[fierce ruin]

🗿

2400 would do?

[tropic hawk]

Go run numbers to figure out how much you need per minute. Then plug that into SatisfactoryTools. That should give you your answer

[fierce ruin]

mmm okey

[dusk gazelle]

Yes they are bad. the

i hate screws

ive only reached tier 2 and i hate screws

[tropic hawk]

You will learn to hate other things soon enough

[dusk gazelle]

oh and i hate biofuel before unlocking chainsaw

[tropic crest]

i have the alt recipe for screws and it makes screws mad easy to get

[open patrol]

which one?

[tropic hawk]

I would personally recommend 1 unless you need tons of beacons or munitions

[open patrol]

aye fair

thinking about it, i don't know what beacons do

[opaque oak]

Used only in single alt for nuclear power anymore

Being phased out.

Map marker system replaced them.
And now if you deploy a beacon it gets turned into one of those.

[cobalt meteor]

is there a reason why it says 40.0001%? why not just 40?

[opaque oak]

Rounding error.

If you manually calculated and checked, it result would be 40%, but the site is using floats for the calculations, leading to rounding errors.

[cobalt meteor]

ah ok

so i don't need to worry about it, thank you

[fierce ruin]

How did you do that?

[wind spade]

They aren't

[fierce ruin]

Is it like a website or something

[cobalt meteor]

yeah

[fierce ruin]

What’s it called?

[cobalt meteor]

satisfactorytools.com

pinned here as well

[fierce ruin]

Thanks

Is this iron factory enough for end game?

Or will I need more?

[wind spade]

Are you in the endgame now?

[fierce ruin]

I just got to tier 7 and I want to set up all the factory’s I will need for the future

[wind spade]

Don't worry about future, worry about now

[fierce ruin]

Is it enough or nah?

[barren elm]

You can pretty comfortably complete every objective within reasonable time on 5-6 iron deposits

[fierce ruin]

Even phase 4?

[wind spade]

Impossible to tell without knowing your endgame goal

[barren elm]

Satisfactory is an architecture game dressed up in a factory game trenchcoat, your needs depend on what makes you happy

[fierce ruin]

Complete phase 4

[wind spade]

Completing phase 4 is possible with any number of iron

[fierce ruin]

True but I’d rather not afk for months straight to do it lol

After everything is all set up I’d want to finish phase 4 in no more then like 100 hours of just afking

[wind spade]

Then decicde how fast you want it completed, that gives you the needed items/min, from which you can figure out how much raw resources you need

[fierce ruin]

Okay

[vapid gorge]

You can complete phase 4 with 1 iron ore pm if you really want

[fierce ruin]

True

[vapid gorge]

But like everyone has said - unless you establish parts per minute end goal we can’t tell you.

[vapid gorge]

And then there’s - what you want to do AFTER phase 4 right?

[fierce ruin]

This is what Imma go with

[vapid gorge]

Cool 🙂

[fierce ruin]

AFK for a total of 66 hours and beat the game

[fierce ruin]

Idk prob just play another game til they add more content or make a few mega factories

[vapid gorge]

You could always decide to automate phase 4 space parts? Like do 5/5/20/20

Otherwise it’s pretty straightforward to shove the parts just before in containers and smash them together for phase 4

[arctic willow]

so i've got a fuel generator layout that looks like this, fed from the two pipes at the north each bringing 600m3 up mk2 pipes to feed the 100 generators; am i better off leaving it like this, or breaking the middle connections and having each of those pipes feed 50 as separate grids? not sure which is best for flow consistency and potential slosh management

[wind spade]

for consistency, easiest is probably to have a single looped pipe

[opaque oak]

So if I calculated correctly, 6 drone ports full of uranium need 120m safety zone... (if all the uranium was in single spot, instead of 6).

Matches the wiki numbers when changing the source numbers, so the quick excel sheet I made seems to work.
Couldn't be bothered to find the actual symbolic calculator.

Shouldn't get anywhere to that level of stock, but better do things expecting the worst happens.

[cedar mica]

Why even calculate safety zone? You can keep the radiation suit on all the time now.

[versed violet]

But the noise!

[violet flax]

on the planner for satisfactory calculator what does it mean by x3.5 on a constructor

nvm i found the tiny text on the lines showing what i wanted

[deft lichen]

the sum of their clock speeds has to be 350%

so 3 at 100%, 1 at 50% for example

[violet flax]

units is a single item right

[unkempt acorn]

Words cannot describe how painful this build was... 70% of it was done before blueprints were introduced... but i finally plugged it all in

576 per floor, 14 floors in total, 8064 generators...

[vapid gorge]

I mean this was totally self inflicted...

[unkempt acorn]

i did regret it... and oml, the lag now

[cinder silo]

Generators?

[vapid gorge]

fuel I'm guessing

or tf

[cinder silo]

Won't be tf without mods, my 888 plant uses half the maps sulphur, not even sure its possible to have 8000+ fuel either.

[mystic moon]

I assume they mean power storages

[cinder silo]

Ahh oops, it wasn't clear when it said 8064 generators 🤣

[unkempt acorn]

ah yes, sorry, storage

[cinder silo]

My 7200 store facility could give nightmares if you get turned around down there.

[vapid gorge]

whyyyyy that much power storage?

[unkempt acorn]

BECAUSE WHY NOT :d

[cinder silo]

Because back rooms!

[vapid gorge]

because frame rates

[unkempt acorn]

Phishhhhh who needs them

[vapid gorge]

You. You need them. To live.

[cinder silo]

Best part of my power stores is unless you go below the tunnel network, you'd never know it is there.

[rich bane]

what is this number?

[wind spade]

efficiency meter

how many % of time the machine is running

[charred mountain]

How many hours of my life is this

[wind spade]

2902.5

[charred mountain]

My bad days not hours

[wind spade]

2902.5/24

[charred mountain]

Thx

[gentle berry]

120.9375

[versed violet]

363 days assuming 8 hour shifts and no free weekends.

[gentle berry]

Did you factor in commute time?

[fierce ruin]

knowing that the average salary in uuss is roughly 20$ per hour

if you had spent that time working instead of playing satisfactory you would have made over 60000 $

noice

[noble timber]

That requires you to have a job earning $20 an hour which could take a few years to get depending on the industry

[frosty owl]

This and other info can be obtained by hovering the mouse over the icon, as some explanatory text pops up

[snow dove]

in november 2022 the average was 11

[noble timber]

And who only has 2 days off a year? 💀

[fierce ruin]

man im not complaining like satisfactory>>>>>job

i was just thinking out loud

[rich bane]

Thanks!

[rich bane]

Ok thanks guys!

[primal flicker]

Assume overtime.

Lots of people regularly work 12 hr shifts and occasionally 16.

[boreal stone]

So 600 bauxite into 5 refineries. How would i go around making that work?

[oblique hollow]

dunno what you mean by that

just built 5 refineries

and split the bauxite into them

[magic island]

I'm guessing it's coming in on two Mk4 belts?

I would have a split manifold that comes in from each side and then finishes by merging in the middle

so one belt comes in from the left with splitters into the left two refineries

other belt comes in from the right with splitters to the right two refineries

they meet in the middle and merge into the centre refinery

[oblique hollow]

you wouldnt even need to split

just clock the refineries

[magic island]

well, if it's their first alu setup, they can't make Mk5 belts yet, so 600 baux has to come on two Mk4 belts

unless you mean running the whole thing at 80% til the input belt can be upgraded

[oblique hollow]

2 mk 4 belts

one goes into one set of refineries clocked to consume it all, and same for the other belt

[wary ridge]

yo anyone know how many ressources can 1 train rack transport per minute of travel ?

[tropic hawk]

Do you mean one freight car?

[wary ridge]

yea sry

[tropic hawk]

It depends on the average speed of the route

[wary ridge]

100 KM/h ?

i mean what numbers u know ? ill just make an estimate out of em

[vapid gorge]

there's an equation on the wiki page for the locomotive

depends on your belt speed and full time to do it's lap

You generally can reliably get 1 belt worth of throubput per car unless you have really long trips

[magic island]

There's two factors: platform throughput and car throughput. the total throughput is whichever's less

car throughput is just the car capacity divided by the route length. if the car can fit 6400 of an item and the route is a 5 minute round trip, that car can carry 1280/min

platform throughput is weirder and more likely to be your bottleneck. station platform belts stop whenever a train is docking, so you can't get full belt capacity. the shorter the route, the more frequent the pauses, and the more the throughput gets reduced

[wary ridge]

okay thanks

[topaz walrus]

So I'm hashing ideas for automating things past the basics (at a point where I'm considering dismantling and revamping my starter factory to bring it up to date). I'm starting with Rotors, and was looking around for what Recipe to utilise. It seems to me the best way is to use the basic recipe, but using the Steel alternatives for the Screws and the Rods respectively. 180 Steel makes 60 Rotors per minute (whereas the Steel Rotor alt uses that PLUS Wires). Am I missing something, or would this be considered one of the best ways to go about making these?

[wind spade]

"best" depends on your preferences and goals. If you feel a recipe is good and like it, go on and use it, nobody can stop you. All recipes come with advantages and disadvantages and it's up to you to use whatever you like most.

Honorable mention for rotors is copper rotor recipe - together with pure copper ingot and steamed copper sheet alternates, you need only 8 copper ore to make 10 rotors (ofc you need some extra screws, but with steel screws it's super easy). But again, use what you want 🙂

[topaz walrus]

Ah I see I see. I was at a point where I'm at Phase 2 starting on Steel. Was gunna go Uber Steel production using the Iron Alloy Ingots and Solid Steel in Tandem to get a buttload of Steel from one place. Was thinkin' making the Rotors via that would be a good way to go (won't get Refinery access until Phase 3 so can't really think that far yet)

[wind spade]

well, if you like the recipe, then it's "best" for you 🙂

there's no wrong way to play the game

[topaz walrus]

sure, but I also like not falling into traps either thinking something is good when the reality is that it's never good in any situation XD

ofc my situation is different since I lack refineries and have a chance to make something like 670+ Steel Ingots in one spot.

[wind spade]

apart from alternate beacon recipe (beacons will get removed in the future), there's no really "bad" recipe

some say charcoal or biocoal are bad, but they have their niche usage, ofc not ideal for full automation processes, but can be used in some temporary setups

some people also mention "automated miner" to be a bad recipe, but it gives you automation for portable miners, so it's again useful for some people.

apart from these three, pretty much all other have their advantages and disadvantages relatively balanced

[verbal hedge]

Automation for portable miners? What’s this wizardry I’m hearing about

[wind spade]

with most of the recipes you either use more power for more output per ore, or use less power (which means more output per machine), or use different materials altogether

[wind spade]

there's "automated miner" alternate recipe

[verbal hedge]

Oh, right. I misread what you meant. My bad!

[topaz walrus]

Mhm, makes sense.

I'm just sorta brainstorming ideas on how best to make use out of...

675 Steel Ingots XD

I could just make it all into Beams and Pipes but I feel like I'd be missing out on some latent potential when starting out on Steel production for the very first time.

[wind spade]

what I usually recommend is to not worry about future. Figure out how much of which you want to produce now and build that much production

you almost never guess correctly how much you're gonna need in the future, unless you have plans for whole game from start

[topaz walrus]

Yeah I'm not nearly at that level yet tis safe to say XD

I'm pretty much just at a point of basic storage for Copper and Iron products + Coal Power. I'm currently milling ideas in my head while hunting down more Hard Drives while the Hamster comes up with what I wanna do with Steel.

Like do I replace my Iron Bar and Screw setups for Steel versions or do I stick with Iron and double up on Steel products specifically.

[wind spade]

sometimes it's easier to solve from the end

start with "I need 10 rotors/min" and check different recipes for rotors and intermediate resources, until you find something that you like

[topaz walrus]

I suppose my goal should be "How much Steel do I need to Automate the Space Elevator Products?". Speaking of which, is it a good idea to go balls to the walls with those, or would you personally go modest with them? Like I can see how big builds can get things done super quick, but obviously expensive. But also going to small can leave ya waiting around forever it seems like. 😮

[wind spade]

"How much Steel do I need to Automate the Space Elevator Products?"
that's exactly the kind of question that needs full game planning 🙂 in my mindset, I just don't plan for future and when the future comes, then I build for space elevator products (or whatever I just unlocked)

[verbal hedge]

Personally I just go ham with the same elevator thingie. At least the phase 2 ones. Spoiler: || they will be needed for phase 3 ||

[late sapphire]

Same, took down constructors after reaching tier 3 to fix spaghetti. Now I'm low on resources and back to creating new spaghetti 🥲

[wind spade]

that's exactly what I'm talking about - even if I know that item's gonna be needed later, I just don't care and don't build "for future". I just tackle future stuff in future

[topaz walrus]

So rather than renovating you'd normally just find a new node somewhere and build something new and better over there?

If ye needed more of a thing that is?

[wind spade]

yeah

"small" factories near nodes for resources they need, producing final product to storage

if I need more I copy the factory somewhere or build a "better" one

[noble timber]

I still have my day one stater factory producing all the tier 1 and 2 items I need

It will get destroyed when I complete nuclear and aluminium and go to max out the world but until then it’s staying

[wind spade]

unless you don't have any more nodes, there's no reason to take down starter factories, no matter how inefficient they are, they are still better than nothing

[topaz walrus]

makes sense. thanks, this is helping me maintain a healthy mindset to approaching this

I was probably gunna wind up dismantling and rebuilding stuff just because I wanted it in the same spot every time a new Conveyer Belt tier gets unlocked XD

[verbal hedge]

I do this sometimes. It’s lead to a bunch of.. headache from my part 😂 but as you mentioned before, there’s no incorrect way of playing the game, which is something I really like!!

[wind spade]

it's a way to play as well. But in my opinion it lengthens the game a lot and sometimes people just get burned out from constant rebuilding

[topaz walrus]

Yeah that's what I kinda wanna avoid.

[wind spade]

if you ever do decide to do a rebuild - I still recommend building new factory before tearing down the old one

[topaz walrus]

It's not easy to tear down and rebuild compared to something like Factorio.

Logistics Bots are such a blessing XD

[wind spade]

unless you're set in stone that you need it in the same location, having the old factory still produce items while new factory is being built is great

[topaz walrus]

And what might previously be only a decent spot will likely be ideal when you get higher tier miners and such to max out Belts and Nodes.

[wind spade]

even in Factorio I feel like big rebuilding happens like once or twice per save at most.

[noble timber]

Factorio is infinite right?

[wind spade]

infinite map, infinite research, finite resource patches

[noble timber]

You can just run somewhere else and plop down a blueprint

[topaz walrus]

kinda, the end of the game is when ya launch yer first Rocket, but you can just keep going until everything runs out.

Unless you're playing Space Exploration or Pyanadons XD

[wind spade]

well, "infinite" map = finite but very large

[noble timber]

Yeah

[topaz walrus]

Dyson Sphere program is similar, not as infinite, but you can get to that point once you repeat Mining Research forty-seven times.

Then each mining operation only consumes 0.x% of an actual Resource on a node that has 32 Million+ of that Resource.

But by that point you beat the game and are probably just playing for the bigger achievements or making a stupidly big Dyson Sphere because you hate your PC.

[fierce ruin]

why am i not getting enough water flow?

and yes the extractors are full of water but the pipes not so much lol

[sand epoch]

10 overclocked gens (i think from what im seeing) from 2 extractors?
Way too many pumps..
Proly other issues too..

[dim oar]

remove pumps and add 2 valves... if you can provide more info, that would help.

[fierce ruin]

5 per 2 fully overclocked extractors

[fierce ruin]

Did something similar to this and it worked

[dim oar]

you are adding complexity with the inline pumps

[tidal wind]

You should really only be using inline pumps if you have a need for lift in the pipes. No need if the pipes are horizontal.

[dim oar]

from what i see, there is no need to raise the head lift at all.

[fierce ruin]

Yeah I didn’t know how they worked I thought they just made the water move faster but then I watched a yt tutorial

[sand epoch]

Maybe a mk1 near gens with the giant pipe humps..

[dim oar]

i would remove all the pumps. you may still have issues and thats were adding those two valves will help.

[open patrol]

which to pick?

[dim oar]

i personally wouldnt pick fine powder, i think i chose the stator but it all depends on your playstyle too.

i would wait to hear more opinions

[snow dew]

why is my truck only transporting 193 steel when i have 5 founderys producing 45

[oblique notch]

Your setting yourself up for pain if you start relying on valves for this. It is not worth the trouble it brings. Valves have very niche uses and bring much more issues than help most of the time. They also are entirely unnecessary Iin a simple manifold with production slightly greater than consumption

[vapid gorge]

yeah don't use valves

[deft lichen]

is it backing up or not? and are the foundries constantly producing 45?
truck stations list actual values, factory machines list values only true if the demand is met

[wind spade]

No, never use valves

[marsh bobcat]

guys, how to get a FICSMAS Star? I used the only one on my truck, but now I need one to do the even's final research🫠

[wind spade]

you shouldn't have used it on your truck 😛

save editing is one option I guess

[marsh bobcat]

no!!!!🥹

I didn't SAVE

Is that means I have to wait for another christmas🥲

[wind spade]

save editing

[marsh bobcat]

oh

misunderstood, sr

🫠

[dim oar]

@oblique notch @wind spade there is no issues with valves, all my setups are perfect without issue.

[wind spade]

I never said there were issues. I said I don't recommend using them. In most cases they are pointless to have and they work differently than people expect

[dim oar]

@wind spade they aren't pointless at all, people will never learn and avoid valves if you keep saying things like this. Valves work, you need to learn what they do by trial and error. Please stop telling people to never use valves.

[wind spade]

the places where you need valves (and can't be done by other means) are limited to a few specific scenarios

if you're familiar enough with how they work and how to build with them properly, go for it

but there's at least 2 people daily that come here and ask what's wrong with their pipe setup and in most cases the answer is "used valves badly"

hence my suggestion for players to not use valves unless they know what they are doing

[dim oar]

@wind spade the limit is by design, you can use or not use them....

[wind spade]

what limit?

[dim oar]

I will help these daily people, if all you want to say is don't use valves.

[wind spade]

you're free to do so in #1038092680493801533

but in pretty much all cases, removing valves helped with the issues

[dim oar]

For you maybe

[wind spade]

not for me. For them

so good for you that valves work in your setup, but unless there's a better solution for the issues, I'll keep telling people to not use valves in most pipe setups, because they are pointless and can cause more harm than help

[dim oar]

But valves work fine and you are taking away a game mechanic... misleading people away from.

[cinder silo]

Misleading what, from what I've seen valves are often the source of pipework issues not the solution.

[wind spade]

they do "work" as intended, which is different from what people think valves are for

[oblique hollow]

90% of people dont know when or how to use valves
and 90% of cases dont need valves

[arctic willow]

so tell us more about the 10%, o enlightened one

[wind spade]

VOP junction is one afaik

(tho I think VOP can be done without valves as well)

[oblique hollow]

honestly i cant think of a proper reason, valves are always an inferior solution when you could just rework the pipe system

anything that can or could need valves can be optimized away

[dim oar]

I think maybe 1% here know how valves work if we are getting into statistics lol

[opaque oak]

Both types of the fluid priorization can be done without valves, but then they need to be made in more situational form probably.

[oblique hollow]

and even fluid priority itself is inferior to proper recycling

for aluminum, dedicated recycling refineries are superior

same for nuclear with the blenders

[opaque oak]

No problems here with mixing the fluids.

[oblique hollow]

fluid mixing either works or it doesnt, valve or not

[dim oar]

Anywho, valves are fine... if someone needs help with them feel free to contact me.

[opaque oak]

But yes, takes more planning and skill.

[oblique hollow]

and the better solution is to plan more and optimize valves away

anything that could need a valve is outclassed by an even smarter solution

[opaque oak]

I was talking about water mixing.
Not valves

[wind spade]

and if a valved setup works fine, it would most likely work fine without valves anyway

[oblique hollow]

yup

or is better off with a pump that resets head lift at that point along the pipe

because valves rely on the input side to be full to apply full head lift on the exit side

with pumps, you dont have that

pumps decouple your head lift dependancy of input and output side

and the limiting part of valves is even weirder.
theres only 254 possible values for them anyway

[wind spade]

wait I thought you said that's not true and edited the wiki 🤔

[oblique hollow]

255 if you count 0

i edited the wiki to show this 8 bit info

the old info was "valves have a 2% tolerance"

which is not true

that 2% thing was a guess

[wind spade]

well that's what I meant by "sometimes they allow more fluid through", where "sometimes" meant "if you hit the correct value"

[oblique hollow]

because we didnt know better at the time

[wind spade]

you confused me 😄

[dim oar]

Are you all still guessing?

[oblique hollow]

nope

valves are figured out now

even got to look at their code

so the wiki info on them should now be accurate

[oblique hollow]

the guess back then was "whatever value you enter, valves allow 2% more", which isnt true

[wind spade]

well a few days back you corrected me when I was saying "valves sometimes allow more fluid through" and I meant that based on the limited amount of possible settings for valves 🙂 so I thought the limited amount is not true 😄

#satisfactory message
#satisfactory message
but I guess I was just confused what you're talking about 😄

[oblique hollow]

its hard to tell what someone thinks when they say "they sometimes allow more"
i mean... kinda yes? kinda no? i avoid using that wording now at all and just say "whatever value you enter gets snapped / truncated to the nearest value the valve actually allows"

[wind spade]

well in the second message I mentioned limited amount of values

[oblique hollow]

honestly i probably skipped half the message back then

and only replied to the first part

im on different meds now too so i cant really follow my own thought from back then

[wind spade]

yeah it's fine, it's just that I thought none of it is correct (and was too lazy to check your edit on wiki) 😛

[oblique notch]

Well. Of those 1% Mcgalleon is definitely the top. Given that he wrote the Bible on fluid and he helped make a mod that let's you tweak all the values of the fluid Sim. If he says valves are not worth their use, I would only consider a dissenting opinion from someone at css

[oblique hollow]

I dont like being held up as the highest authority however

i dont make the rules, i only try to document them

but so far, even CSS think the manual is pretty much accurate

[opaque oak]

I only use valves as backflow prevention instead of pumps when the headlift change isn't needed.
But that is only thing that I see any use for them.
And even then you have to be careful and not just spam them.

And using pumps has its upsides.

[wind spade]

fun fact about backflow prevention is that valves only prevent backflow from one end of valve to another, so you can't get rid of backflow, since any part of pipe can have it

[opaque oak]

Yes, but divides the piping into smaller zones for it.

[wind spade]

much better way to "prevent" backflow is to just not prevent it at all and loop the pipe so that backflow isn't a thing anymore

[cinder silo]

I started using pumps exclusively for that, mostly out of a new habit thanks to me finding the painful way valves break the vip voodoo.

[oblique hollow]

pretty much this

[opaque oak]

Might need it some times when feeding from below, because the risers want to equalize.

But yes, isn't usually needed either.

[wind spade]

I assume feeding from below is also a page in manual xD

[opaque oak]

To not do it 🙂

[wind spade]

(or rather, why not to feed from below)

[oblique hollow]

yes, a tiny segment on it

[opaque oak]

And I do it knowing it is a bad idea.

[cinder silo]

Feeding from below does need some preparation for sure, works but if you stuff it up, you're kind of on your own since it is advised against.

[opaque oak]

Yup.

Need to be much more careful with the whole piping.

[cinder silo]

I found having a small buffer at each end of a bottom fed loop (and fill the damned thing ffs) helps. ofc actually having it as a loop is a requirement.

[oblique hollow]

feeding from below is also not ideal since you gotta fill EVERY pipe

while from the top down or level, its a lot faster

[opaque oak]

But I do lot of stuff in the game that I don't recommend doing at start.

[dim oar]

@oblique hollow how does the speed change if the rate is the same?

[opaque oak]

Only when you are willing to live with your own stupidity if it doesn't work and know why it doesn't work.

[oblique hollow]

pipe volumes needing to be filled

[cinder silo]

I found a fatal flaw in my turbo fuel facility on the oil feed, tbh I'm just going to bring another oil line in because the system has found a way of losing oil when it is supposed to be 1800 in 1800 out (and it started out as full)

[oblique notch]

That being said I do the same. But it's not advice I give to people who need help with pipes 😁

[oblique hollow]

feeding bottom up, you need to fill evey pipe completely
while level, you dont,
top down you do also need to fill some pipes but the main feed doesnt need to be full 100%, so theres a bit of saving there too

[opaque oak]

Valves have their places, but only for advanced builders. Not for those that need help.

[oblique hollow]

not to mention you cannot do balancing with bottom-up feeding, if you really wanna balance pipes

[opaque oak]

Bottom feeding makes balance problems worse, not better 🙂

[oblique hollow]

gotta be level or hierarchially top-down

[wind spade]

does balancing work anyway?

[oblique hollow]

yes, junctions do try to equally split

[wind spade]

as long as the pipes are equal shape I guess

[oblique hollow]

it only gets problematic once something sloshes around

you can hope that the wave dies down

[oblique notch]

Because speed of the fluid inside pipes is not completely decoupled from the volume.

While pipes say max flow rate of 300/600 they mean thar flow rate at full volume. As soon as the volume of the pipe is not completely full, flow rate can exceede that max - this is why you sometimes see 310 ot 315/m³/sec flow

[dim oar]

@oblique hollow so the same volume pipe fills slower if it is underneath than above? That's basically what I'm getting from this.

[oblique hollow]

..yes
if you want to move water from a high place to somewhere lower down, you dont need a full pipe
bottom up, you need a full pipe

[opaque oak]

Bottom fills first. And so if building intake is the highest point...

[oblique hollow]

with pipes in general, bottom up always means you are fighting something

pumps, volume, head lift, etc.

[oblique notch]

The liquid Sim respects gravity, just like liquids in real life. If you are drinking from a straw (bottom fed machine) or shotgunning (top fed machine) which do you have to do more work for?

[oblique hollow]

in summary: Gravity no likey when you go against it

so you are always fighting against gravity when you move up

going down, gravity is with you

[opaque oak]

And this leads to bottom feeding showing every little other problem in your piping system.

[dim oar]

@oblique hollow but you are saying the output changes due to being to low or high.

[oblique hollow]

output doesnt change, only the time until everything is full

[oblique notch]

Advanced builders who are doing things the hard way 😅

[oblique hollow]

if you have a pipe going up vs a pipe going down, which one will fill the targeted machine faster?

[opaque oak]

Building can only get fluid if the fluid reaches the intake.
And if the intake is the highest point in the piping, everything else has to fill up first.

Vs. if the intake is at the lowest point.

[oblique notch]

It's also helpful to be aware that buildings don't take fluid in at a constant flow. They only accept after each cycle is complete

So when they "open their doors" so to speak to accept fluid, if feeding from below it's far more likely they will encounter a moment where there is no fluid in the top section of the pipe.

[opaque oak]

Or that it will start to get fluid and the pipe stub gets emptied more quickly than it can fill up.

Leading to a really bad sloshing problem between the stubs.

[oblique hollow]

important note there: they only accept fluid until they are full

non-full machines always accept fluid

full ones effectively become a brick wall to the pipe connected to it

[wind spade]

half-filled setup, left side is feeding from below, right side is feeding from above

[oblique hollow]

the right one might have all those smaller pipes going to the machines that need full, but the feed pipe doesnt need to be full

which is a small difference, but still saves a lot of time

[wind spade]

also if it's "not completely full", the left one doesn't work, while the right one does

[oblique hollow]

ye

right one at least partially starts working

[wind spade]

(level-feeding is probably best in this case, but above feeding is still better than below feeding)

[oblique hollow]

yeah level feeds are nice but feed from above with small pipes is also ok

[tribal thunder]

How would I split a material into 7 equal groups?

[wind spade]

either manifold or balancer

manifold:

--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

balancer: split into 2->4->8 and merge one back into start

I'd personally not bother with balancers and just do manifold

[tribal thunder]

I'm really confused on how o manifold

I just started yesterday

I'm going to assume it involves splitters and storages?

[wind spade]

input -->--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
           |  |  |  |  |  |  |
           X  X  X  X  X  X  X

S = splitter
X = any machine or whatever

- and | are belts

it works because the first machine will get more than it needs, fill up and then items will overflow to other machines

[tribal thunder]

Wouldn't that give the first one most priority?

[wind spade]

see above 🙂

after a few minutes, all machines will be filled and it'll work normally

[tribal thunder]

Ok the issue is that I'm splitting exactly 70 by 7

[wind spade]

you can also fill machines manually if you don't want to wait

[tribal thunder]

so do I just pre fill machinery

Ok got it

[wind spade]

that will work even without prefilling

[tribal thunder]

Wait I'm stupid it would

[wind spade]

but yeah, pre-filling will help you make it work faster

[oblique notch]

yes. splitters split evenenly as long as their is room on the output belt. If an output belt is full, the rest goes on to the other output belts.

So you have 100/min on a manifold. Your first splitter splits it 50/50 - belt/machine. The first machine only takes 10 a min, so its inventory fills up and it stops accepting more until it finishes a cycle.

In the meantime, all 100 continues on the non machine side of the splitter, to the next.

This process is continued down the manifold. As long as your input is at or greater than your machines total consumption it will eventually equalize, every input belt "backed up" except the last one, and all machines working at 100% up time

[wind spade]

As long as your input is at or greater than your machines total consumption it will eventually equalize
actually it will equalize no matter what

[tribal thunder]

So it's like those "Which cup will fill up first" puzzels

[oblique notch]

yes, you are correct

[wind spade]

except the last one
except the last two 😛

[oblique notch]

but the condition was tied to 100%

[arctic willow]

only problem with manifolds is that tolerance of "eventually" varies

[wind spade]

yeah but if you don't want to wait, just pre-fill machines and it'll work almost instantly 🙂

[oblique notch]

and with the mechanics of SF, there is no penalty for a bit of extra time.

[wind spade]

or have it disconnected while it fills

[oblique notch]

I sometimes wonder how much peoples confusion with why a Manifold works in SF is becaues they care coming from Factorio.

(i.e. the dual sided belts make it a bit more confusing - even tho you can still manifold in Factorio, that dual sided, pull from the other side + inserters having travel time makes it a big difference from SF belt fed)

[wind spade]

factorio also has manifolds, just a bit more hidden

belt with inserters is basically a manifold

[mystic moon]

I always just leave output disconnected, that way I then have a bunch of stuff in the output buffers to fill the next system

[oblique notch]

Totally. But the dual sided nature of belts means it creates this perception that balancing belts is essential (perpetrated by many content creators) and then there seems to br a disconnect from the fact that it's balancing sides based on an equal number of machines on each side of the belt... and how none of that matters for SF belt fed machines 🙂

[oblique hollow]

due to us only having one "lane"

their pipes are a lot more funky tho

none of the fancy junction stuff we have

fluid just goes straight on or whatever

[leaden depot]

By my calculations, the entire map of coal, oil, and iron can make 1,775,965.714 Screws Per minute. That's 2,277 belts.

I don't think that's gonna be my next project

[oblique notch]

Ryan Reynolds, in scrubs, asking but why?

[leaden depot]

why do anything in this game?

the factory must grow

[oblique hollow]

yes but screws?

[leaden depot]

Is there something you can make more of?

[oblique hollow]

Universal Paperclips but Universal Screws, eh?

[frosty owl]

The only comparable item (as in: little ore - > lots of ppm of output) might be Aluminum Scraps, but that has obvious limits

[leaden depot]

My thought was "what's something really dumb that would also be really impressive?"

Its a little too massive to be worth the memes though

[frosty owl]

Making a perfect sushi factory

"dumb" and "impressive" are both highly subjective though :P

[leaden depot]

gross. I mixed oscilators, beacons, and ecrs on one belts into my uranium plant. It works as long as nothing goes wrong ever.

but when it does it is spectacular

[frosty owl]

Eh, it's still less than other "non-insane" massive projects though.
Eg: maximizing turbomotors may require more machines and that's not the most machine-intensive maximized production

[leaden depot]

Its 22k machines at full overclocking

~17,600 screw constructors

[frosty owl]

Maximum control
What better way to prove that everything is working exactly as planned in your factory?
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/553550313533997057/882159021841342534/Screenshot20210831-07330200000.png

[frosty owl]

Huh, that's more than I thought
You can get more with maximized ADS, but still...
Definetly not just "big"

[frosty owl]

Next step: do it for the whole production line

[arctic willow]

if i plug it into sftools with just oil, coal and iron it maxes at 1,583,840/min, which is only 2,031 belts 😛

[tropic hawk]

did you factor in water?

[arctic willow]

no ("oil, coal and iron" implies not water 😛 ) but adding water makes it 1,791,570/min (2,297 belts)

[leaden depot]

Pure iron where possible. Steel rods and default recipe

Solid steel from all coal and coke steel from all oil

My spreadsheet may be off by 20 belts. Huh

I don’t consider water finite, so I didn’t even calculate it

[frosty owl]

It's not considered a finite resource, unless one is maximizing packaged water for some reason

... Did you say you wanted a "max item/min challenge", @leaden depot? 😏 🚰

That might beat screws

[leaden depot]

Oh no

[frosty owl]

You would definetly be the first, afaik

[leaden depot]

The number of water extractors you can place and plumb is really the limit, because you can recycle the containers

[frosty owl]

Yep. SFTools provides a "max water" parameter too, but I'm not sure what that's based off (probably wiki, so based on the most reliable estimate we have)

[frosty owl]

If you recycle the container what do you do with the water though?
The containers might actually be the limit

[vast jungle]

I think the "max water" is just a HUGE number... water is not really limited

[opaque oak]

Its there so you can limit it for specific location you are at.

With the default basically unlimited.

[vast jungle]

yeah... I remember building a coal plant in the green plains near this tiny lake... I think I could barely squeeze in 6 or 7 extractors...

and I remember to notice there is no easy water near "Quartz Cave" under the Western Dune Forrest

[fierce ruin]

the spawn lake?

[vast jungle]

this one

East of the green plain spawn area...

[oblique notch]

MAX_SAFE_INTEGER constant from Javascript: developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Number/MAX_SAFE_INTEGER

[cinder glade]

Does anyone have a table for over clocking different miners? I recently overclocked an assembler for smart plating (couldn’t be bothered waiting) and thought of this from a video. Any kind would help 🙂

[wary ridge]

u should be able to find how much miners can produce while overclocked on the wiki

[cinder glade]

Is there like a good table on it

[deft lichen]

a table of what exactly

[cinder glade]

Tbh I forgot it existed as wikis are sometimes pain to look through

[cinder glade]

@deft lichen

[deft lichen]

yes I read what you sent, what about miners

[cinder glade]

The over clocking rates

[unkempt acorn]

Is there any bugs currently known in the game regarding Mk2 Pipes?

I've got 800 fuel PM going into 68 Fuel Generators.

66 of them are at 100% and 2 are 24% and claim to be consuming 2.88 Fuel PM

So in theory 792 + 5.76 = 797.76 Fuel PM consumed...

Yet! 1 of my fuel generators is interrmittently running out of fuel? The Fuel isnt backed up, its just vanishing? any help?

[deft lichen]

well the output is just clock speed%*base output and the power draw is base power draw*clock speed%^1.321928
I think this might be what you're looking for https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Miner#Mining_speed

[deft lichen]

are you looping a second pipe around? pipes with many junctions have throughput issues

[cinder glade]

Thanks

[unkempt acorn]

Ive got 4 lines of 17 generators

400 400
\/ \/
200 -> [17 Generators] <-200
\/ \/
200 -> [17 Generators] <-200

But weirdly, its only happening to the first floor, and not any other the other 3? ive tried adding more pumps, with no change

[deft lichen]

17 is pretty long, you could try running another pipe in the center to provide more flow

[unkempt acorn]

I can try, but like i say, i have 4 floors, all with the exact same layout and its only happening on the 1st set of generators...

[sand epoch]

Vavles suck.

That is all.

[unkempt acorn]

I stuck valves in and limited the flow to 300, somehow that worked?

[vapid gorge]

pure luck then - at best valves don't hurt - generally they make things worse

[main coral]

mathematically this works, but does it work in game? certain recipes requiere decimal numbers and i'm gonna use one of them which needs 7.5 reinforced plates p/m, so would this splitting and merging work?

[vapid gorge]

wow - that looks painful. Why not manifold?

[cinder silo]

Oof complex!

[wary ridge]

That looks complicated lmao I like to find an even number by multiplying the machines but yea that should work

[main coral]

yeah that's what i just did, so im trying to make an alt recipe of modular frames which needs 7.5 reinforced plates p/m, and if i instead use the bolted plates recipe i can get 15 p/m, which is the exact double of 7.5, so im just gonna place down 2 assemblers

[vapid gorge]

You could just clock the machines feeding it differently if you don't want to manifold

[main coral]

i need a way to split 10 into 5 2s

and im not sure how to go about this

[oblique notch]

10--->-S-S-S-S-S
       | | | | | 
       2 2 2 2 2

yes that works. Eventually. After the pieces fill up. its going to take quite a long time but if you prefil the machines then it will be fine.

[ocean sluice]

this is called a "mainfoild"
you can search it up for more info

[main coral]

yeah ik

i just dont wnana use a manifold

[placid nymph]

I noticed today that at top speed the factory cart has a really tight turning circle, so I did some math.

It turns with a lateral G force of 1.4G, and since it's so top heavy that means it must have downforce

Side skirts are visible on the undercarriage, indicating some kind of ground effect or suction

Meaning the factory cart is likely a fan car

[wind spade]

yeah, it's kinda my way of saying "infinite". New tools should support infinity better

[oblique notch]

thats fine - no one says you have to. But... you're going to not get much help for perfect splits here. It just isnt something most people bother with, which if you want to do it - go for it - but you'll mostly be figuring it out yourself.

[oblique notch]

nah that makes perfectsense to me.

honestly easier than "infinite". Infinite means a lot of edge cases you gotta handle

[placid nymph]

And infinities are especially funky with floating point numbers

[oblique notch]

but if you are going to insist: https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers

[wind spade]

well internally I'll still use something like max safe integer, just show "infinite" in UI

[oblique notch]

specifically, you can adopt the 2:5 balancer to easily be a 1:5 by literallyy just removing one of the inputs.

[oblique notch]

best solution 😁

[placid nymph]

Update: I tipped the cart over, not a fan car since it has no underbody. Meaning it has to be using thrusters

[oblique notch]

obfuscate, encapsulate, black box all the way. Give em an API and tell em to gtfo with anything else

[wanton dove]

how would i calculate the point at which a train is slower than the output of my miners?

[vapid gorge]

The wiki has an equation on the locomotive page. Generally 1 car to 1 belt is pretty safe unless you have really long trips

[wanton dove]

mine is like a 3 minute trip so i think its fine

[opaque oak]

Ok, could get 1.75/min stacks over from the most distant uranium drone port with single drone.
So three ports at each nuclear power plant cell that needs 100/min uranium is way more than needed.

So if the battery usage bug hits too hard, I can just put single drone at each uranium mine drone port and refuel at the reactors.

[frosty owl]

Pfft, as if

[frosty owl]

Yes, this should work as expected. All mechanics are being made use of properly. Effectively, that's a load-balancer that splits in 1/16 and 15/16 (multiples of 1/2 are always relatively easy to get)

[frosty owl]

That's a bit of a harder split as it's not based on a multiple of 2 or 3. Enter: prime splitting. Just follow these simple design steps whenever you need to split something in X outputs:

1. Split up to the closest bigger multiple of 2 or 3 there is to X. Eg: if X is 15, split in 16 kinda like before
2. Merge back before the first split all "extra" outputs. Eg: if X is 15 and you split in 16, merge a single output back before the first splitter
3. Your split will (soon) act as you wish.

Note: keep in mind that when "back merging" you should avoid having the belts looping back backing up! Use priority merging if needed.

[vapid gorge]

How do you ever expect me to speak to you again when you've recommended 'priority mergers' to someone 😛

[frosty owl]

Maybe when you'll learn that priority merging (or similar considerations) are actually needed for some balancing shenanigans :P
Eg: merging back 60/min on a full MK1 belt can cause the MK1 belt to back up, causing "too many" items to output from the balancer

[wind spade]

Pick whichever recipe you need most/like most

Beacons are getting removed tho so that one is questionable

[main atlas]

well idk the recipes yet

[wind spade]

You see them on the screen

[main atlas]

idk which ones ill need

[wind spade]

Pick random one and move on then

[vapid gorge]

both the rubber and circuit board recipe are very flexible

the rubber one is part of a chain for high output

[main atlas]

alr

[wind spade]

If you don't need any of them/don't know if you'll need them, then you can just pick whichwever since you won't use it anyway

[main atlas]

First non-coal setup using oil

20 plastics and rubber per minute, doing alright i think?

[snow dove]

any amount of plastic and rubber a minute is doing alright

[main atlas]

true

due to my organisation of my main factory (Deleting the old one and moving it up into the air) made the storages half full

also im using the remaining oil produced from the 2 materials to power

Now i'm in doubt, recycled plastic sounds good but the coke steel is.. even more interesting?

which one would be better

[wind spade]

same as before - there's no better or worse

[main atlas]

well

energy costs could be

[wind spade]

every recipe has advantages and disadvantages

it's up to you to decide if you like it or not

because every player prefers different things

[main atlas]

i see

hmm i think compacted coal's a better way to save on the need of several coal resource nodes for coal gens wouldnt it

[snow dove]

or just use fuel

[main atlas]

i dont have fuel to power thing yet

sooo, coal?

[oblique notch]

Whatever works for you

Their are more hds than alts, you won't miss anything.

[red saddle]

I detonated a boulder to get slime, but it is underworld, why?

[deft lichen]

"why" because the level designers accidentally put it there

Or it's in a cave

[vast jungle]

or its just like the Phase 4 space elevator parts... its just a bit of developers laughing 😉

(I am contemplating IF I want to make the P4 parts at all at the moment)

[red saddle]

Feature, not a bug EZ

[ruby furnace]

what is the ideal ratio for miners to smelters?

[oblique hollow]

depends on miner mk and node quality

because that question has at least 18 answers

[ruby furnace]

well sugar honey ice tea 😂

[ruby furnace]

its a miner mark I, how do i go about the node qaulity?

[oblique hollow]

look at the node beneath the miner

it tells you the quality

[ruby furnace]

oh its normal

[oblique hollow]

then you get 60/min resources, the miner should show that

[ruby furnace]

so how many smelters do you suggest i build?

[oblique hollow]

2

each one takes 30/min

see: it makes 60/min

smelter takes 30/min

[ruby furnace]

alright makes sense

thank you!

[oblique hollow]

just check recipes

then its easy to figure out the ratio

miners always show you how much they mine

[vast jungle]

its just a matter of dividing one number through the other one...

either two smelters for a miner (60/30)... or one smelter for half a miner (miner downclocked to 50%) 😉

[sonic crane]

is it more power efficient to have one machine be underclocked and the others at normal, or that all machines are a little underclocked?

[opaque oak]

All underclocked.

[oblique hollow]

theres some diminishing returns on power saving now

a relative cost per building

the most power-per-building you can possible save is around the 40% underclock mark

at 40%, you need 2 machines at 40% and one at 20% to have the same production as 1 machine at 100%
the total power saved is around 28,5%, but you save around 11% power per machine

or if you round to whole machine numbers, 9,5% power saved per machine

50% is also a relatively good mark

[oblique notch]

Or say screw it, oc everything to 250 % and pray to Tesla you can build enough powerplants

[gloomy shoal]

Would not recommend that for several reasons, at least not earlygame

[tropic hawk]

<Laughs in full nuclear>

[sand jewel]

yes

[sand jewel]

<laughs in pure coal veins by the sea>

[silver elk]

<laughs in only biofuel in midgame>

[vast jungle]

I think I use every fuel source except for biofuel... I still have my coal powerplant, I have three D(P)F powerplants and now 25 GW of nuclear 🙂

and ~ 1.something GW of geothermal

[silver elk]

B I O F U E L

[glossy aspen]

whats a good amount of plastic and rubber just to have, I still have a shit ton of nodes I haven't used as I just overclock the pures

I have enough for 2400 each

[wind spade]

I mean that depends what do you want to make from it

[glossy aspen]

idk

the nodes aren't being used so

[wind spade]

I personally recommend making only what you need

[glossy aspen]

I've already automated pretty much everything I'd need

[wind spade]

then make a plan for what you want to produce next and then you'll know how much plubber you need

[glossy aspen]

Like what

[vast jungle]

take a good factory size you can easily build without overhead... then build one of them for plastic and one for rubber... only add more factories when you need more rubber or plastic

(my factory size is 480/min as an example, because the numbers work out nicely)

[untold scarab]

alright, so im trying to build 20 Modular frames via 10 fabricators, trying to do the math but it just doesnt work in my head:

so, i am trying to split 30 reinforced iron plates into 3, but i cant find the answer. I only have the normal splitters, no programmable... anyone who may help?

[vast jungle]

you don't want to manifold?

[untold scarab]

do what?

[vast jungle]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[vast jungle]

you don't balance the input of the machines but just add them behind any combination of splitters... the will get different amounts of input, but the ones getting too much will get full and then things will balance out

no math necessary (beyond "maximum belt capacity")

[untold scarab]

well thats useful af

[vast jungle]

of course you can balance... dividing by 10 is not that hard

[untold scarab]

do you have something in mind?

[vast jungle]

divide by a multiple of 2's and 3's, then merge back the parts you don't need into the input with a merger

so I would split into 6, merge one of the six back into the input, and split everyone of the 5 into 2

as long as your belt can handle the "normal input" and the "merge back" together, you are fine

[untold scarab]

uh, sorry, my head just said goodbye

[vast jungle]

if it cannot (balancer with a full belt), you just split the belt in half, built two balancers and then "re-merge" the splitted belts

[untold scarab]

could you explain further with the dividing?

[vast jungle]

dividing = splitter usage

divide by 6 = divide by 3x2... so you split into 3 belts, then split each into 2

[untold scarab]

oh okay

[vast jungle]

so you can easy divide by anything thats a product of 2's and 3's...

[untold scarab]

okay, now ive understood

welp, thanks for helping

[vast jungle]

so dividing by 10 is a problem because 10=2x5... so solve the "divide by 5" first... by dividing by 6, and merging 1/6 back ^^

you are welcome

(I would still suggest trying the manifold first)

[untold scarab]

yes, i will do the manifold though

[gray elk]

i need help

so i generate 175/min compacted coal

how can i like generate power from them

47.55 compacted coal/min needs 300 water

[oblique hollow]

i dont get the issue

just build the coal generators

[gray elk]

yeah but

idk how to pump water to them all efficiently

i only have mk1 pipes unlocked so i can do 300 at a time

[oblique hollow]

have you ever done coal power before

[gray elk]

watched a tutorial

[oblique hollow]

then you should know you can supply 8 generators with 3 extractors

[gray elk]

no ._.

[gray elk]

i underclocked 2 water pumps and divided the system to two pieces

[oblique hollow]

well then do the same here

you dont connect all generators to one long pipe manifold

you subdivide / group them

[gray elk]

😔

thats what i did lmao

[oblique hollow]

well then just cut it up

delete some pipes

and then apply what you see in the image above

[gray elk]

alr

but how can i like use all of the 175 compacted coal perfectly

[oblique hollow]

50 compacted goes into 7 generators

175/ 50 =?

multiply result by 7

[gray elk]

???

didnt know that before

[oblique hollow]

7 generators need exactly 50

because this is compacted coal and not normal coal

[gray elk]

but wont i use an 8 gen system

[oblique hollow]

thats your issue figuring out

underclock some extractor, idk

the image shows you how the 300 limit of pipes is no issue

[gray elk]

;_;

alr i gotta be brave to do this

[oblique hollow]

its just a bit of math

you got this

[gray elk]

i hope

[oblique hollow]

just build similar to the image but only do 7 and then clock the extractors to only make enough for 7 generators

and then you just build multiples of that setup

[gray elk]

lmao i cant believe i gotta do math for fun

isnt there like a site for doing that math

[sand jewel]

i just give each 250% OC gen its own pump

[gray elk]

my brain wont work omg

[sand jewel]

whats the overclock setup for the gens if any

[gray elk]

how the fuck am i supposed to do this

i have to add 10 water ;_;

it need 310 water

for 7 gens

[wind spade]

more extractors

[gray elk]

i have a 300 pipe

[wind spade]

you can have more pipes

[gray elk]

i can do a fluid manifold for it

[wind spade]

you should

[gray elk]

but adding a 10 ???

would it be a problem if i bring more than it can hold

[oblique hollow]

no

check the image i sent

you know how much water that transports? 360

[gray elk]

no like more than the gens need

[gray elk]

bruh im doin a 7 gen setup

[oblique hollow]

so thats just 360 - 45

315

[gray elk]

315?

yeah so i need another pipe on the end pumping 15 water

[oblique hollow]

just build a 3 to 8 with one less generator

[oblique hollow]

you need 3 extractors anyway

2 doing 240, the last one does 105

it couldnt be any easier

[gray elk]

bruh

do i need to add pumps before the junction to prevent sloshing

[oblique hollow]

its just one extractor clocked down to 87.5%

[oblique hollow]

no

you only need pumps if the pipe goes higher than 10 m

[gray elk]

alr working

i gotta do this 3.5x times

to get 175 compacted coal

[exotic iris]

This seemed simple when i wrote it out. Then i started building. Dear god why did i decide to produce 600 batteries/min?

[vapid gorge]

a lot of drones and a lot of space parts

[gray elk]

it took so long

but im done

i hope i wont need to do this much manual labour again

[unkempt acorn]

Ok, there has to be an bug with fuel generators... ive had the same issue on one of my much smaller set ups.

160 Fuel Pm
13 Gens on 100% and 1 on 24% taking 2.88 fuel pm

So in total i should be using 158.88 and one of the generators is still running out of fuel?

Are there any known bugs in regards to underclocking fuel gens?

[oblique notch]

no

just regular Fuel?

[unkempt acorn]

Yea

[oblique notch]

24 % = 20.08 seconds of burn time for fuel, which ... is 2.988 fuel per min. not 2.88

no, sorry. 2.98 burns

[unkempt acorn]

even still. i should have more fuel than what im using?

[oblique notch]

no, as each burn is actually 1 fuel. (duh). which means you need 2.98/min and if you are only providing 2.88 your short.

assuming the 20.08 seconds off the wiki is still corect

(the duh is for me btw, cause i am teh dumb sometimes)

[unkempt acorn]

(13 * 12) = 156 + 2.98 = 158.98 Fuel Pm?

So i should be short by 1 fuel PM basically?

[oblique notch]

um. if the 20.08 is correct for the burn time off the wiki but i dotn think it is anymore

because 5/.24 (24 % slower) is 20.98 seconds. The linear clock change may have changed that lower value slightly.

which would make it 2.85 FPM for the 24% under clocked generator i think.

which is less than what your providing... which is also far under the max of pipes so you really shouldnt be running into any torubles, unless the pipes arent full before the generators start?

[oblique notch]

bleh

feels like the number is off by a slight amount, perhaps do to rounding? if you can push your production up slightly, thats just going to save you so much trouble in the long run probably. Trying to do 100% perfect usage setups with fluid is always ... difficult.

[unkempt acorn]

What ive done is re configured the pipe lay out into 2 sections rather than 1 large one and also shared the underclocking over 2 machines per section rather than just 1

[oblique notch]

probably will help

[unkempt acorn]

They need to make fluid more easy... haha

[oblique notch]

make sure your pipes fill up with fuel before turning on the gens. Are you feed pipes into the generators coming from above, level or below?

(but at 160ish m3/min it really shouldnt matter...)

[unkempt acorn]

below

Nvm, it works now!

praise baba jebus

[oblique notch]

this might be the reason? when feeding liquid from below, you end up with gaps at the top of the pipe. with the under clocked machines last in the row it may not fill back up to the where the machine can take the liqiuid before its ready to do so again.

that shouldnt be a problem with full pipes and under max throughput but... you never know. Its possible i guess.

[unkempt acorn]

Perfection... with the exception of somewhere in my factory that randomly produces 8 MW every so often

[oblique notch]

hypertube loop entrances or hoverpack?

[unkempt acorn]

They dont produce power tho?

[oblique notch]

oh produces more power? the gray line gets a bump?

gotta be a random biofuel generator still around somewhere.

[unkempt acorn]

its so small, the line doesnt change. but randomly my total production goes up by 9ish MW

[oblique notch]

they only burn fuel when they have to produce power, so it could be there for a long time... but weird things like chunk loads or game loads can sometimes trigger it to burn a little, i think.

[unkempt acorn]

Ahhh, i removed all mine ages ago.

[oblique notch]

might be one you missed.

or its the Power Storage. I think they can blip more power into the system too.

[unkempt acorn]

plus they produce 30MW tho?

[oblique notch]

eh. If it only blips power then it may not actually be producing 30 long enough for the graphs to register it. They are 'over time' functions so if its a few second blip of power it may only show as 8mw

[unkempt acorn]

Could be, that massive tower in the middle is all power storage...

[oblique notch]

i donno, im spitballing there - i dont know what else it could be, but thats just total theory

[unkempt acorn]

see now it just went up by 2Mw... hey ho, i dont mind... as long as the line stays FLAT!

[brittle terrace]

i saw somthin about a diffrent way to set up coal and im not sure can u just add juctions to a single pipe and add water to it? like the photo

[vapid gorge]

yup the lower pic works fine. You basically have to just make it so at no point any part of the pipe is carrying more water than it can handle

[brittle terrace]

that makes it so much easier wtf ok

[vapid gorge]

though without overclocking 3 water extractors only feeds 8 gens , not 9

[brittle terrace]

i was drawing as ex not actual numbers involved

[frosty owl]

Don't think so. Burners or power storages only activate when needed. Burners make the max-capacity higher, storages don't

[frosty owl]

You don't have trains, vehicles or sinks on that power line do you?

[versed vault]

Can someone tell ime if this works?
The sum of the items/min of the 4 input belts and hwo much I need on the 4 output belts is equal. If one of the input belts on the left produces about 10% more than the others, and I need an even split on the output, will the system balance itself once some of the output belts get backed up? I'm using storage instead of splitters and mergers because of throughput ptoblems.

[deft lichen]

industrial storage containers don't balance

the've been broken ever since they had a second port added, for some reason one of the ports is always preferred over the other

what you're looking for is a 2x2 balancer (although this would've been one if the containers weren't broken since 2019)

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer

[versed vault]

I don't need it to balance right away, I'm ok with waiting for one of the ouputs to get backed up before the other starts outputing adequately

[deft lichen]

a 2:2 balancer is easy to build

up to you really

[oblique hollow]

the storage thing you built will not split at all

[versed vault]

Oh I see, I threw away the idea of mergers because I thought I would need 2 belts throughput on one, but now I see that is not the case. Smart system, thank you

[oblique notch]

Yeah, I agree but it's the only scenario I can think of thst would cause a slight blip of additional power

[frosty owl]

ISCs can be used as 2x2 balancers with one specification: the output cannot exceed the input, ever.
Examples: ISC fed by 2 belts via long-range transport (output <= input) or ISC that's supposed to overflow (output < input)

[frosty owl]

It still doesn't make sense though. Both burners and storages provide power only when the draw reaches the capacity (which is far from the case).
A similar bump in power could be caused by a train breaking (but it seems too big and too constant for that), a power generator going online or a power generator adjusting its clock.
I'm inclined to think (3) might be the case, in a similar fashion: user increases (as there an increase in power production) clock speed of a generator with low clock; this generator is already going through a production cycle, so it's output won't change until the next burning cycle; the (originally) low clock makes the burning cycle quite long; user goes to monitor the power graph before the generator has finished its burning cycle and notices a spike in power when the generator starts the new cycle and increases its power output

[oblique notch]

It could be that, given that op has 2 UC generators. But I wouldn't rule out a bug where when a bio generatorloads in to a chunk near a play it turns on and produces for a brief period before recognizing it doesn't need to

But yeah, a clock speed adjustment fits as well, given the other factors with ops setup

but... generators do not give chunks of power, no matter the speed. Its a constant amount of power - its not 30 wats at the end of every burn cycle, its 30 watts distributed evenly across the burn cycle. Otherwise your graph would always be peaks and valleys (eveyr 5 seconds a peak with 1 fuel gen, for example)

or more accurately, as long as fuel is burning power gen is at a set level

so it doesnt matter how long the burn time is - longer burn time just reduces the constant output of power.

[opaque oak]

But they give the same static power for the duration of the single cycle. And only change to new setting at cycle change.

So by first having extremely long and low burn cycle, and setting it to another, it will take long time before the new setting takes effect.

[oblique notch]

right. but that wouldnt explain an occasional +8 mw blip ont he chart that goes back to the previous level on occasion

that would explain a slight bump after the clocking was pushed upwards, but after that it would new flat level

ie

      _______
-----/

would be clocking being adjusted up.

but

-----/\------

would not. which is what BorkTron was saying he was seeing. Occasionaly seeing +8 mw generation then it returns to normal.

[gray elk]

yeah

thats it

but u can use manifolds too 🤷

[wind spade]

either that or just single splitter and let it balance itself

[opaque oak]

I need to feed three miners with 600 output to four ISC buffers for freight platforms so that the freight platforms fill up evenly, so 3x600 -> 4x450.
Can anyone think of easier way to do this than to split each miner belt to four (3x 1->4), and merge one from each belt together (4x 3->1) and then into ISC?
So total of 9 splitters and 4 mergers.
Wanting to check if I'm overthinking something.
But I do think that the 12 belts is minimum to balance 3 to 4...

[mystic moon]

Ye the way that comes off the top of my head is to split each in belt in two and two again then merge one from each input to a station

[opaque oak]

As I was thinking in my message.

[mystic moon]

Yeah I was agreeing with you

[opaque oak]

Sorry, skipped the first word somehow or didn't understand the meaning.

Was thinking of deleting the message but you had already started to write.

[mystic moon]

Np

[opaque oak]

But yeah, was just checking, that is probably the simplest one and no realistic weird solutions exists when I started to analyze the ratios.

[mystic moon]

Never done this but you might try chaining the stations

[opaque oak]

Would lead to uneven filling and I would need to balance at the other end, where the stuff will go to two different locations.

Now I can just take two platforms for each.

And there is plenty of space to do that balancer at the source station basement.

So was mainly asking to see if there was some weird trick I wasn't aware of yet.

When the incoming streams are interchangeable and only the 450 to each ISC is a requirement.

[wind spade]

personally I'd just have three platforms instead of four and have three belts on the other station as well and use 600 belts for factories

[frosty owl]

I agree, but the picture shared just showed an increase

If it goes up and down, I'd check the underclocked generators looking for one that's not (yet) getting enough fuel

[frosty owl]

It's 6 splitters since you split each output 2 times and not 3 (you don't split one of the halves into fourths), but yeah... :/

[devout solstice]

Bolted iron plates is more expensive then reinforced, correct? It's only benefit is speed

[oblique hollow]

yep

[gloomy palm]

A new and improved recipe tree!
#fan-art message

[vapid gorge]

A nightmare.

[gloomy palm]

😄

[gloomy palm]

but a logical one 😌

[vapid gorge]

Is it supposed to be used somehow?

[gloomy palm]

Yes, it can be used to analyze the logical hierarchy of the recipe dependence tree, such that higher tier recipes appear closer to the bottom

i dont mean to say that everything at the bottom is a high tier item, there may be an example such as Uranium Ore, while itself is a raw resource, isn't necessary for anything higher up in the tree

so it could be seen as a mid-to-late game item even though you can easily mine it as soon as you have miners to mine it with

this is the kind of thing the graph helps to visualize, where recipes appear and where there might be more or less relations than anticipated

for example I didn't realize how many associations there are to rubber and plastic

people could interpret the usefulness of the graph differently i suppose, it's just a face-value graph, and can be interesting to study, perhaps it could be helpful to someone in a way i haven't thought of

[vapid gorge]

I’m not sure this is more useful than just looking up recipes on the wiki? It tells you each recipe a think can be used in. But you do you. This is exactly the reason I stay off the satis calc planner

[gloomy palm]

this isn't intended as a tool to help you plan your factory, but it could help with getting an overall idea of what recipes you could look to focus on more if they are needed for more other recipes... i guess it's handy to have all the recipe relationships shown in a single graph as opposed to trying to remember what everything connects to while scrolling through a hundred wiki pages, if that makes sense 😅

like i said, some may see a potential for usefulness of the graph, for others it may just look pretty, for yet others it would appear to serve no purpose at all 😅 it just depends

I may make a version which removes the Alien Protein, Biomass and Packaged/Unpackaged recipes, it should help declutter it a little, but I'll have to leave that for a later day 😊

[sharp sapphire]

Hmmmm...I cant decide what would be best to grab first. first hard drive found, and only at tier 2. What would be better for the beggining? Im thinking the cast screw, but not 100% sure. Thoughts?

[small kayak]

I'd go for the screws, helps best at the early stages and most people replace screws entirely later on anyway.

Iron wire is a great way to make wire (and cable) at places with no copper nearby

[wind spade]

"best" is very much subjective and depends on your own preferences and goals 🙂

[small kayak]

true, the best is always situational and depends on the preference of the player

It's just that in my experience cast screws are nice, but will eventually be replaced by steel screw if really needed

[wind spade]

I personally don't like them exactly because of the fact that they are useful for very limited amount of time

and almost all recipes you can get together with them are better in one parameter or another

[small kayak]

'them' as in 'screws'?

[wind spade]

as in cast screws

[upbeat relic]

[opaque oak]

Yes, could do it with 300+150, 300+150, 300+150 and 150+150+150.
Need to think about that version vs. doing the full 1->4 on each...
But by quick think, the only reason it wouldn't work identically is after the system had been full and miners are emptying their internal buffers.
And then there is overproduction anyways.

[marble mauve]

300+150+300+150+150+150+150=1500

[opaque oak]

3 belts of 600, split to 300+150+150, and then merged into 4x 450.
And you have mistake on that calculation, your combination is only 1350, and is missing single set of 300+150.

[opaque oak]

Implemented.

With mistakes...

Redo.

Forgot the second split 😄

Fixed

[tiny sentinel]

would this pipe junction work? or should I just bring the 600 pipe up and over the 150 pipe?

[tropic hawk]

Why does the pipeline even need to merge?

[tiny sentinel]

aesthetics, honestly

[tropic hawk]

Better plan: either clip the pipes together, or have one pipe lift up and over the other with clean 90° angles. If you clip them through, build a junction at the clipping point so it seems that it is connected, but in reality it is just covering up the mess. Because the setup you have there is going to be a headache mainly due to the valve

[tiny sentinel]

I guess I could group the oil nodes differently, but this is how I planned it based on overclocking all of them.

[tiny sentinel]

galaxy brain idea. may explore that solution

[tropic hawk]

I keep meaning to take screenshots of my builds to share with others, but then the server gets killed before I remember... 😦

[tiny sentinel]

killed?

[tropic hawk]

Server dies, admin takes it down, I get burned out again, etc.

[opaque oak]

Or you can place the junction and clip both pipes through it. Looks exactly the same but neither pipe connects to the junction.

When you use the non-indicator pipes.

[tiny sentinel]

oh. I had a server with a friend last year, but update 6 ruined out spire coast powerplant (we built it before the announced changes) so we both took a break
I jumped in again for Update 7 on a brand new play through just singleplayer

[tropic hawk]

That's what I meant with the clipping option

[opaque oak]

Just more explicitly explained.

Because building the junction afterwards, without attaching to either pipe is going to be hard.

[tiny sentinel]

moved the cross over down the line a bit, just used floor holes to go under the other pipe

[vapid gorge]

Don’t merge or split pipes if you can help it. If you want aesthetics make fake pipes

[frosty owl]

I do what @gloomy palm is talking about often, but I've always used SFTools. I might have used such a graph if I didn't know about SFTools, but now the latter orovides the best solutions for me even un this regard.

I like SFTools' graph ld because I can mess with them; if you tell the tool to maximize a production, you'll see how the different recipes are used and how they interact with one another, with a huge difference compared to thus graph: SFTools creates graphs that are situational (which I find the most useful as I already know the "general" relationships between recipes)...
Does what I just said make sense?

[vapid gorge]

Yessss? I mean I'll compare part production and recipes as well but that graph is just an info dump. I hate looking at it.

[frosty owl]

I wonder what would be the reaction if I showed you my SFTools tabs

What I mean is that it has a similar function to analizibg the "visualization" part of a production plan on SFTools, cut the graph itself is of "generic use" rather than specific to one production objective (eg: making Supercomputers rather than Fused Frames)

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh my 'master plan' is crazy but I can easily segment off parts off

[gloomy palm]

I understand what you mean, however it might be worth noting that this graph was generated directly from the game data files, and was done so entirely offline with a small python script. The script could be used to emulate the tools required in making a factory planner but this wasn't the originally intended purpose of it when I started this project

The edges are a mess because the Graphviz library generates them automatically, they can be hidden as well if there it is more useful to only look at the position of recipes and ingredients on the graph

[wind spade]

SFTools could with a few modifications run offline as well

[gloomy palm]

ahhh

indeed

[frosty owl]

I am aware of the things you said. Unfortunately, I'm also judging the graph also just by its descriptions, as I haven't had a chance to open it in a readable manner (but I think I have a pretty good idea of what it displays)

[gloomy palm]

bearing in mind also that I'm not a web developer, this code creates a photo, an SVG or a graphviz file notation

it's not interactive but I could imagine the SVG data could be translated into a web page

[frosty owl]

Flying question: are comparison tools between production plans in the work? (Sorry, I should just enter the Discord I guess, I've been asking a lot...)

Eg: highlight what changes and how much between production plan A and B

[gloomy palm]

I find the graph to be interesting personally

[wind spade]

Could you explain a bit more what do you mean by this?

Ah nvm

Too slow to type

[frosty owl]

Practical example: I run a maximized plan, change one recipe, want to see what machines have changed, what recipes... all values that are different between the two plans, and what stays the same

[wind spade]

Probably possible, but will be a thing for new tools if it will happen

[frosty owl]

I know, just asking if it's between the "features we wish to have" 😆

[frosty owl]

I hope so. This would have been a lot of very uninteresting work on your part otherwise

[opaque oak]

The maximized ones bug on the lower levels and give nonsensical plans.

For u6 SF-tools.

If you have extra resources.

[frosty owl]

I don't agree with that. What's the issue with it?

[gloomy palm]

aahahaha

[opaque oak]

Uses Residual Plastic instead of Residual Rubber for example for Recycled loop startup.

When maximize is on

And Residual Rubber when in normal mode.

Like it should.

The maximize one doesn't try to minimize the lower level steps resource usage unless those are a limiting item.

Ah, man himself.

[wind spade]

That's intentional, not a bug

[opaque oak]

Yes, but makes the resulting graph differ. Which was the point in this case.

[wind spade]

You can't optimise for two things at the same time

Beta tools try to go around this by doing some dark magic on the background but it still isn't ideal

[frosty owl]

I understand the annoyance, but accept it as part of how the Tool is supposed to behave 🤷‍♂️
In other words: I'm resigned to having to check for recipes I do t want and disable them in maximization plans (or whenever, really)

Generally, I just copy a certain production plan that has only the recipes I like selected and start new production plans from there

[opaque oak]

I didn't say it was a problem, just said it happens. And good idea do use maximize to check the maximum and then switch to "normal" mode with that end amount.

And then tweak the recipes used.

[wind spade]

Or in other words - if you know what you (don't) want, tell tools that

[frosty owl]

Storytime: I had to get creative to find a way to force the Tool to give me a plan for maximized ADS (and many other things) that used Coated Cable but also normal Cavle and not ONLY normal Cable....
Solution: I enabled only Coated Cable, checked how much Iron was unused, ran a maximized plan for normal cable limited to that amount of iron ore, then plugged in the resulting cable as input in my "main plan" and reduced the amount of Iron Ore aviable accordingly

[frosty owl]

Oh, BTW, I'm fairly sure that VIP is either not working anymore or it's performance have changed, @oblique hollow
You know my SFR save? I went through it one last(?) time to make the power draw flat and I had to remove all VIPs in order to not have the water extractors backing up...

Remove VIPs or removing the extractors feeding them, same deal

[opaque oak]

My simplified one is still working fine.

[cinder silo]

Suddenly I'm glad I decided not to try again with VIP at my bauxite refinery & combined acid facility.

[frosty owl]

Power draw do be flat now though

[cinder silo]

Cool.

[opaque oak]

As said, my simple VIP is still working in my aluminum production.

[cinder silo]

Btw I found out why my power was wavy, there was a flaw in that monster turbo fuel power station.

[frosty owl]

The VIP issue is what was causing the power issues that confused me the one time we tried to troubleshoot it shortly together (when we tried reducing the clock of the extractors to match the new water requirements for nuclear)

[cinder silo]

Oh the yellow lit extractors in your basement.

[frosty owl]

I still have a single VIP in that save too, but the fact that that single one is not acting up isn't very significant to me 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

All water pipes had a VIP from back when fluid loss was a thing, so even the properly clocked extractors were backing up due excess water (through VIP)

[cinder silo]

The fluid loss thing is what brought my combined acid facility to its knees when I tried to recycle.