math-and-meta

[barren elm]

And it's not overclocked?

[vapid gorge]

nope

It runs literally everything else fine? it's just frustrating that this game is such a hog

[barren elm]

Quick google search says satisfactory caps out at 8 cores but that is just someone else's post

[vapid gorge]

ooo thanks, didn't even think about that - but yeah only 1 person. I've posted on reddit about this too. Just want multiple data points before a big purchase

[barren elm]

I will say tho that if you use your PC for anything other than gaming, ie development, rendering, etc, the jump from 8 to 12 cores is crazy

If it's just gaming then I don't think you'd see much of a difference between 7700X and 7900X

[vapid gorge]

Nah won't do more than gaming. So maybe stick to the 8 core option. Though interestingly it looks like the base speed of the cores on the 8 core chip are slower? if I'm reading it right

[barren elm]

Yeah that's right, tho if you do care about performance it is a good idea to overclock them

Even prebuilts come with overclocked CPUs these days

Overclocking a CPU isn't as... lifetime limiting as overclocking a GPU

[vapid gorge]

I'd have to look into how to do that. Would probably need extra fans on the tower I'm guessing?

[barren elm]

If you're building it yourself

I'd just buy a decent noctua fan, it'll probably outlive you

[vapid gorge]

I'm guessing you don't mean the cheaper 50$ ones I'm looking at xD

[barren elm]

They're expensive but I've used the same noctua fan for like 12 years now and it's still completely silent

[vapid gorge]

mind if I dm you real quick?

[barren elm]

Sure

[vapid gorge]

msged 🙂 also brb walking dogs

[brazen rampart]

i feel like pipes and water extractors work different when it comes to calculating how much water you need to run a machine

so if I have 6 machines that require 100 water per minute or whatever the measurement in and a mk2 pipe with a flow rate of 600, the amount of water it can actually hold isn’t 600 so would running all 6 machines on a mk2 pipe work if I had 3 water extractors pushing 200 water each

[gusty nexus]

water extractors draw 120/min as a base number

and yes, not accounting for any weird situations often caused by elevation problems, a mk2 pipe can properly transport 600 fluid/minute

it is generally better to instead structure the pipes and junctions feeding your factory to enter the pipeline structure at multiple points, to potentially alleviate the need for mk2 pipes (which cost both plastic and more sheets than mk1 pipes)

that principle is how you would structure a 8 coal generator:3 water extractor design, for instance

[brazen rampart]

ty

[gusty nexus]

yeah, the idea is that the rate statistics are more important than any actual storage, because the machines are almost always eating the incoming resources fast enough that you don't need to actually be able to hold 600/1200/whatever the rate

it isn't spending 600 fluid every minute but only doing it once per minute, it's spending 60 fluid every time it makes something and does it 10 times per minute

[hardy sail]

I know my math isn't that complicated, but can someone please check it?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1opPHinF2XoX2QTA-oDmobVkPJambcRDipBR92OfEwko/edit

[thick plank]

should work out. Ill advice you to build it here

except if you arent in the grasslands

[hardy sail]

I have a spot, give me a moment to send a screenie

[thick plank]

be carefull though on how you use your water extractors. they can get a bit wonky cause pipes are a load of sphagetti

[hardy sail]

Pure node most likely for steel later

[thick plank]

ah your at that spot. yup, thats a very good one. But theres a better one enarby

[hardy sail]

theres also 2 pure quartz node in that area*

[hardy sail]

oo

[thick plank]

down south

id use your current coal spot together with the oil of the coast for a turbofuelsetup

there are three sulfur nodes nearby

[hardy sail]

bit more wiring needed for that, my base is here

so

over all the wiring needs to go..

one sec

[thick plank]

its not that far away

[hardy sail]

true

hyper tube network should fix any problems I have

[thick plank]

but yeaah, its your call. both spots are fine. You can also use mine for a very strong steel production

[hardy sail]

pure iron is close yeah

[thick plank]

and the turbofuelsetup can happen back here

[hardy sail]

oo

looks good

ill keep my eye on that area

Thanks!

[thick plank]

np

the northern forest is a great area

[abstract stirrup]

I’m gonna say it now, I thought that when the blueprint designer was put it was something that would have helped me a lot with my factory.

The thing is that: 1) it is completely bugged and I had to play 2 more hours to understand witch bug was crashing my game. 2) the way you place them is strange cause they feel like you’re placing a foundation so if you build something up to 32 meters you won’t be able to place it aiming at the top/middle 3) the fact that belts/ railways attached in a blueprint won’t work if you connect another blueprint next is disappointing, so you can’t create a train/belt line but only the structure holding it 4) the blueprint designer can’t hold more stuff than a 4x4x4 of foundation and that’s incredibly inefficient, as you can only put smaller machines in there and nothing serious.

So my hype was annihilated and basically is faster doing it by yourself instead of using BPD.

Some people might get mad cause I feel the effort they are putting in those updates, but this one in particular added more bugs and inefficient stuff.

(That’s my opinion obviously, don’t harass me…)

[frosty owl]

There do be a QA site to leave feedback on 😉

[abstract stirrup]

I’m lazy

[snow dove]

1, and 2 are genuine issues, yeah, but 3 and 4 are intentional so it isn’t too overpowered

blueprints were a controversial idea to begin with

[frosty owl]

And not interested in posting in the right places it seems

[wind spade]

1. bugs are still around and they are being sorted out, it's EA game so it's understandable
2. there are multiple snap modes, have you tried them all?
3. they are planning to add this feature (or at least part of it, I think they want to add it for rails). However the BPs are meant to be small pieces that you connect together, so they may not add connecting to all things
4. size is intentionally limited (see above), it's to add a challenge for the player to fit stuff in BPD, or to make modular blueprints that are connectable together

ofc you're free to not like it, I'm just trying to clarify things 🙂

[snow dove]

WAIT YOU CAN CHANGE SNAP MODES???

HOW?

[wind spade]

I think there's at least "normal" and "blueprint", but I haven't used them yet, it's just what I'm aware from streams and videos

[frosty owl]

You can create blueprints to help snapping blueprints too

[abstract stirrup]

I actually did it

[snow dove]

i was planning on having a random foundation at the bottom of my railway blueprint to make it easier to place

[abstract stirrup]

Same

[snow dove]

tbf i might still do that

[wind spade]

from wiki:

Blueprint snapping

• When building under 'Blueprint' mode, blueprints snap to each other based on the center of blueprinted buildables, provided there is free of encroachments.
• When on default mode, blueprints can be snapped to 'loose foundations' - foundations those are not built using blueprints, at 1 meter in horizontal or 0.5 meter in vertical. This requires careful manual alignment.

[frosty owl]

That can work too. Just one object to take away, little work

[snow dove]

yeah

my supports work like that

so i basically make a temp walkway beneath it, then place everything ontop that

then remove the walkway, extend the supports, and place the railways

i have a whole floor in my main base specifically for experimenting with stuff

which includes my blueprint designer

[vast jungle]

I like to keep my blueprint designers out in the open... with enough space to print (and easily remove) a blueprint to test it... removing a printed blueprint is a pain...

[opaque oak]

In default mode they also nicely snap to walls now.

[mental basalt]

Big blueprints should be endgame to save you time

[snow dove]

no

don’t make blueprints any bigger

[mental basalt]

What

Theres literally machines bigger than the blueprint designer

[snow dove]

yeah, that’s intentional to make blueprints not OP

[mental basalt]

But the thing is for simple mining/extraction rigs with train tracks attached it isnt a fun part of the game anymore its simply painful in the late game

[long moss]

i would like t have a 5 x 5 Foundations Designer so that i can organize the logistics input/output cleaner , i had no Problem this designer where limited to 2-3 aktive machines

[mental basalt]

Why do u need blueprints for funnels

I used blueprints for my smelting rigs but even then it was limited

[vast jungle]

I made a complete set for a "vertical factory"... but after a bit of testing I removed everything again and placed it on a normal foundation grid by hand.

[mental basalt]

Sådan henning

[vast jungle]

(a set of templates for all machine types)

[mental basalt]

Just wondering, what country are u from?

[vast jungle]

why do you ask?

[long moss]

i mostly make the in /out in BP for machines setting it manually is a bit annoying since i have left the rage of good fps
and doing it 80+ times in a row is not much fun ether

[mental basalt]

Your name is common where im from and ive never met anyone not from this country that has the name

[vast jungle]

Germany

[vast jungle]

I thought about making blueprints for single machines with splitter manifolds attached, but there are too many variants because stuff coming from different directions

[long moss]

i make the BP on demand for me it's time efficient when you have to place a lot of them

[vast jungle]

okay, I can see this when you have to place a few dozens... most of my factories are smaller

[long moss]

that's my actual project
https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=MraXqakQOKFarc7iyZu0

[vast jungle]

yeah, when you want to maximize numbers get a bit out of hand 😉

[vapid gorge]

Just make the smelting rig in parts then?

If you just want to copy paste the same thing over and over doing it as parts A , B and C built on each other is simple

[mental basalt]

Interesting

[fierce ruin]

Shouldn't the 9m also be risen up through gravity

[oblique hollow]

since the pump applies 9 m already, no

9 m is 9 m to the pump

its a "technically yes but also no" kind of thing

[fierce ruin]

but wouldn't the 18m would be gravity

and the other 4 is from the pump and extractor BC in the manual u made you said they stack

the extractor and pump not pump and pump

[opaque oak]

Pump resets headlift before adding its own.

Headlift doesn't stack. Ever.

[heady breach]

Anyone know a spot where i can find blueprints for the game?

[opaque oak]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/blueprints

[oblique hollow]

if you read the manual carefully, you will know that pumps dont stack.
2 pumps next to each other will not have double head lift, you need to space them

the same applies from extractor head lift

extractors are just weak pumps basically

and the manual also states pump head lift only stacks with gravity AFTER the pump

if the pump applies 9 m, then those 9 m are always being applied by the pump

the other part in that image is through gravity

whether you think that its now 18 m through gravity or 9 m pump and 9 meters gravity doesnt matter anyway

its not like you can tell a difference or use this information for anything

"McGalleon is wrong, its 18 m through gravity"
Whether thats true or not, honestly, its useless information and you also cant find a way to disprove it

functionally, these 2 are identical

[oblique hollow]

uh yes, thats what i said

"pumps dont stack"

[fierce ruin]

oh sorry I thought you said they do I was so excited to prove you wrong

alr thank you

[oblique hollow]

dont worry i know my manual xd

[fierce ruin]

but like I was saying shouldn't gravity be 18 and not 9

because it's going down 18 then going up 18 plus the pump and extractor

[oblique hollow]

extractor does not matter, this is only about what the pump applies

the knowledge question was "will the pump be able to pump the water up"?

not "is it gravity or is it only the pump"?

the first and the second 9 m are identical

you do not add those

its not 9 m ( pump) + 9m (gravity) + 9m (pump)

because the "9 m (pump)" are the same head lift

the pump treats them the same

it doesnt double count those

you could do this indefinitely

and it still will be the same

they are all the same and the pump only counts them once

same for this. the pump applies 9 m on ALL these pipes at the same time

[nocturne tinsel]

will adding a valve to these inputs in a manifold help with the last generators in the manifold not getting fuel?

its fluctuating all over the place - should stabilize at 9750

nvm im noticing the middle machines of my refinery setup are struggling???

im losing my mind over this, the pipe just before the last bend before the refinery is constantly full but the pipe leading into the refinery is at most half full at any given point

does anyone know why this is happening?

[wind spade]

loop the pipe, it should be fine

[nocturne tinsel]

and now all of a sudden the refinery just got filled entirely - why is this so inconsistent?

[nocturne tinsel]

i did already

[wind spade]

and feed from above 🙂

or pre-fill the pipes

[nocturne tinsel]

you saying it wont fill the manifold ever if theyre fed from below?

its been like this for hours now

[wind spade]

I'm saying that you need to have all pipes full before you start it if you feed from below

also, don't add any valves

[nocturne tinsel]

alright ill turn off all refineries and wait until the pipes are filled

i cant really rebuild this, i spent hours on this factory so if this design is fucked id rather just take a break from the game lol

[wind spade]

well I recommend for future builds to feed from above

it doesn't require full pipes to work

[nocturne tinsel]

why doesnt filling from below work?

[wind spade]

it does, just needs full pipes

you know how in real life fluids keep the same level in all pipes?

the same thing happens in SF

[nocturne tinsel]

hm ok

[cinder silo]

Keep in mind feeding from below will pull chunks out of what's in the pipes, causing that loop to have to fill up before it can feed other machines.

[nocturne tinsel]

so youre saying as soon as the first machine gets enough for production to start it will make all the other pipes "lose" height?

[cinder silo]

You can smooth that with loops or having buffers to act as a take up before the system is onlined, it is preferred to feed from above, a lesson I learned the hard way.

[nocturne tinsel]

so really this is only a problem because input matches output?

[cinder silo]

I'm somewhat infamous for feeding from below, the result was mixed at best.

[nocturne tinsel]

yeah lesson learned i guess

[cinder silo]

The pipes really need to be kept full one way or another when feeding from below.

[nocturne tinsel]

problem is every single machine in this factory is fed from below

because feeding from above is ugly

[cinder silo]

I have the same issue in this place, it is a monstrous installation of fed from below, unscrewing the mess isn't that straight forward, don't copy me 🙂

[snow dove]

fed from below>>>

[wind spade]

view from side, if you don't have full pipes, left one is feeding from below, right one feeding from above

[nocturne tinsel]

nice drawing, i appreciate the art

[wind spade]

if fed from above, fluid naturally flows down to the machines

[nocturne tinsel]

but i think i understand that

[snow dove]

just prefill everything or overproduce by just a tiny bit and feeding from below works great

[wind spade]

if fed from below, the fluid has to first fill the pipes to reach the machines

[sage void]

nvm didn't let it run for long enough im doing to remove it

[nocturne tinsel]

im guessing the problem is that theyll get a tiny sip each incrementally instead of being drowned in oil

[cinder silo]

I fed this lot from above so fluid lessons weren't wasted on me 😄

[nocturne tinsel]

thats a huge building

[oblique hollow]

exactly that.
underfloor piping means that all pipes must rise to the same height

but if one pipe gets drained, due to the way head lift works, ALL pipes drop in level

[nocturne tinsel]

alright, both oil pipes and fuel pipes are completely filled now, hope this works

[nocturne tinsel]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

the best you can do is probably a pipeline pump on every pipe going up but thats kinda ridiculous

and even that that might have issues

fluids just dont like moving up :/

cuuuuuurse youuuuuu, gravityyyyy

[frosty owl]

I personally prefer to feed from below as well and (somehow) never had issues with it.
What I always do is:

1. Having a buffer before the machines
2. Let the buffer fill up (to a certain level) before letting fluid reach the machines
   With this all my machines are soon full of fluid and I never had weird flow issues

Note: I don't mean one buffer PER machine, I just build enough to store enough fluid to fill the inventory of all machines connected to it
Eg: 6 refineries can hold up to 300 cubic meters of fluid, so a small buffer would suffice

[nocturne tinsel]

hm idk if this is working, fuel was filled in all refineries as well as oil but its slowly draining

there should even be 10 fuel too much

10 refineries to 13 overclocked generators (cant figure out how to overflow the last bit from 3 of these setups into a final overclocked generator)

[nocturne tinsel]

yeah, but if this doesnt work ill probably just concede and come back at some point in a few weeks and rebuild this factory

[cinder silo]

I'm considering retrofitting the facilities that are fed from below with buffers to even them out, far easier to do than re-piping the whole thing.

[nocturne tinsel]

honestly this would all have been much more intuitive if we could see fluids moving in the pipes but thats prolly not gonna happen

[frosty owl]

Ever since I started having buffers before big fluid setups I stopped considering them "borderline useless"

[frosty owl]

You can see them, just not with fine detail

[cinder silo]

It never occurred to me, I used buffers to prevent my old TF plant from going wrong in the event an oil well got stuffed up or I overloaded power. I'd updated to power stores and forgot the buffers can smooth out bottom feeds ~oops.

[frosty owl]

I appreciate a lot how it allows me to control the fill-up of machines on stsrt-up

[nocturne tinsel]

too early to tell but regardless if this works or not, thanks for the responses

[wind spade]

@turbid otter https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

here have an embed

links are whitelisted, if a link is whitelisted, it gets embed (if it has one)

but all links that pass have embeds

because the embed permission in discord is the same as media permission

https://tenor.com/view/gif-me-happy-hug-me-gif-12382574

here have a gif

see

it's the same permission, there's no difference between "upload image" and "have embed on messages"

and gifs are basically embeds from tenor

our "privileges" are "you can post all links" and "use external emotes"

[frigid sandal]

which is the best recipe for copper ingots
pure copper or alloy

[wind spade]

depends what do you mean by best

most resources out of copper ore or least power used or least space used? or something else?

[frigid sandal]

would i need all the iron in the world ?

[wind spade]

nah

most resources are available at such high amount that you won't really run out of them

[frigid sandal]

yay cpu go brrrr

alright thanks guys

[wind spade]

what if I have fun with minmaxing

[velvet urchin]

Pipes still wonky at a full 600?

[wind spade]

pipes always worked nice with 600

it's player's builds that make them go below

if you loop the pipe and pre-fill the setup, it can do 600 nicely

[velvet urchin]

k still the seven p's then

[wind spade]

nah I want that sweet Factorio DLC

[oblique hollow]

even their pipes suck ass near capacity

they dont even have proper junctions

no nice flow division like satis junctions crosses

and most importantly, nowhere near our flow rates

[wind spade]

1200/s

[oblique hollow]

we have 30 000/s and 60 000/s, its just hidden better

ah wait

wrong units

500/s and 1000/s

no wait... i know its 5 cubic meters and 10 cubic meters internally, and thats the per second flow....

yeah, 36 000/s and 18 000/s

wait... ffs

[wind spade]

well converting to "game units" is not really relevant

[oblique hollow]

i cant fucking math i hate units so much

[wind spade]

relevant comparison would be "how much compared to average machine drain"

[vapid gorge]

Have you tried not fucking it then?

[oblique hollow]

"How to convert m³/min to liters/s Bing yahoo google"

[wind spade]

it's irrelevant tho

[vapid gorge]

isn't it just 10k L per m3?

[wind spade]

(also factorio unit isn't "liter")

[oblique hollow]

its units

[wind spade]

1k

[tropic hawk]

You forgot Duck Duck Go

[oblique hollow]

our units visible units are just the engine units/1000

and sometimes you even see them when you add a recipe to the to-do list

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah 100cm^3

[wind spade]

looking at factorio's building, most machines need ~10-15/s on average
so one pipe can support roughly 90-120 buildings

which is way more than we can do in SF

[oblique hollow]

1000 l per m³ but ive been circleing around the damn /min to /s

[tropic hawk]

1 mL = 1 mm^3
1000000000 mL = 1m^3
1,000,000 L = 1m^3

[vapid gorge]

why do you need it?

[oblique hollow]

which is kinda by design, you arent ever supposed to hit the limit in factorio cuz the pipe flow decreases with every segment

so the rational approach there would be to slash that by a few numbers

[wind spade]

well yeah but it's much more relevant comparison is "amount of buildings fed by pipe", as we don't know factorio's units of volume and it wouldn't be relevant anyway

[tropic hawk]

Did I get my ratios wrong? Could have sworn there is 1000^3 mm^3 per m^3

[oblique hollow]

nah thats way off

1000 dm³ per m³

[wind spade]

if factorio uses m3 as well, they have way more flow, if they use mm3, they have way less flow. What's the point of such comparison?

[oblique hollow]

10 decimeters per m, for a m² thats 10 x 10
for m³ thats 10 x 10 x 10

so 1000

for centimeters its all that x 10

and for mm all that x 100

[tropic hawk]

I was mistaught

I was told 1 mL = 1 mm^3

[oblique hollow]

100k mm³ per m³

[vapid gorge]

I think we both misremembered things. My reflex was also wrong

[oblique hollow]

nah its 1 cm³

[wind spade]

1l = 1dm3

[oblique hollow]

1 mL = 1 cm³

as theres 1000 cm³ in a dm³

[tropic hawk]

Right, let's move on now that we know we are both idiots

[vapid gorge]

so when hospital dramas say '10 ccs stat! You know that's 10ml and a giant needle

well biggish needle

[oblique hollow]

ok so 60 m³/min is 1 m³/sec

[tropic hawk]

deci is a cursed unit. Like °R

[vapid gorge]

deci IS a cursed unit.

[oblique hollow]

that means 300 m³/min is 5m³/s

and for 600 its 10 m³/sec

[tropic hawk]

Yep

[vast jungle]

2 Turbo-Pressure-Motors/min... (and a few Fused Frames and Radio Control units)

FINALLY... 🙂

[oblique hollow]

meaning its 5000 L/sec and 10000L/sec

[tropic hawk]

Or 5000000000000000000 Чm/sec

[velvet urchin]

I can one up this. I really can. By "looped" does the loop start at the output machine or where the straight line pipe hits the inputs.

[oblique hollow]

thats a wonky µ

actually wtf even is that

thats not a mu

[tropic hawk]

It's me using a Cyrillic ч.

Best I could do

[oblique hollow]

chad µ vs virgin Ч

upside down h vs 4

[tropic hawk]

Look, my keyboard may have a button for ¥,©,•, and more, but no Mu...

[oblique hollow]

idk why but mine does

[tropic hawk]

You realize that's a letter, right?

[oblique hollow]

ye i know

just poking fun at both

[vapid gorge]

well duh upside down 4 is a number

[tropic hawk]

Also, Russian alphabet has a letter for 'Ch' while English has to use two.

[vapid gorge]

like 'i' is a number. Who would ever use it as a 'letter', pffft

[tropic hawk]

i would

[vapid gorge]

virgin mathematician 😛

j/k

[fierce ruin]

Quick question that doesnt really need a post

is there more manuals other than pipeline

I like having them

[sand epoch]

What else needs them? O0

[vapid gorge]

not as far as I know - though the yare trying to put together a more thorough discussion on alt recipes for the wiki I think?
Most everything else is 'do it how you like' , fluids are just a pain in the ass

[barren elm]

Bit late on this but factorio pipes usually cap out at 20 or so buildings

If you look at popular quad nuclear reactor designs, they're often fed by 6+ pipe inputs because factorio has similar fluid flow issues as satisfactory

[gusty nexus]

factorio has the problem of flow rate dropping off the longer the pipe goes without assistance, which satisfactory doesn't model

[hardy sail]

Can someone help me with something? I have 3 water extractors, producing 360 water a min, and 8 Coal gens, how do I split the water up (im only on pipelines mk1

8 coalgens only take 360water a min to clarify

considering adding a 4th extractor so I can do 2 extractors per 4 gens but Idk yet

[wind spade]

Nuclear is very much an exception as it needs tons of water. I was mostly talking about oil-related stuff

[deft lichen]

Geez that's low res lol

[hardy sail]

thing is I cant do one pipe because mk1 only takes 300

so id be bottlenecking the system

[deft lichen]

Follow the layout

[hardy sail]

ah

[deft lichen]

These 3 are one of many possible solutions

[hardy sail]

I see now

1st seems the most viable for the area im in

[opaque oak]

The limit isn't for pipe system, it is just for single segments.

[hardy sail]

Oh? guess ive been reading it wrong lol

I could stack a second 8 on top and if I need

thanks guys :)

i cant read that lol

[hardy sail]

ah

ooo ok

I get it now, glad I asked here

[opaque oak]

So doing the 360 as total, but no segment is doing more than 120.

In that specific case.

Junctions and buffers have infinite flow, but are limited by the connecting pipes, so 1200 in suitable configuration.

[hardy sail]

Hooked my coal gen system producing about 600 Mw to my sytem drawing at max 570MW but most of the time about 520ish and it gave me a fuse error at the coal plant, is there something wrong with suddenly adding it to the sytem?

nvm just cheked, my coal gens arent fully saturated yet, so my 1 of my power plants randomly turned off due to no coal

[wind spade]

yeah, always pre-fill your gens before turning them on 🙂

[hardy sail]

yeah doing that now

got 2 or so gens without coal yet

lol

[vast jungle]

I have started planning for my first nuclear powerplant... the Swamp in the East looks like the perfect place for it, everything reasonable "closeby" except for Caterium, which can be easily brought in by train or drone... do you agree or is there a better place (the northern-forest/rocky-desert "gulf" and surrounding area is already blocked by most of my factories ^^)?

[opaque oak]

Most people like to avoid the swamp...

[wind spade]

nuclear plant is best built on water 🙂

[opaque oak]

Ah, only nuclear. Then thats normal.

[vast jungle]

oh, just saw there is also a caterium node on the edge of the swamp... 🙂

my plan would be to build a fully self-sufficient factory complex that produces the fuel rods (and recycles them) in the swamp, then set the reactors close to the coast

not that I need nuclear power... but this is my third game and so I finally want to tackle nuclear/plutonium...

hmm... there is enough geothermal power near the swamp to run an uranium cell factory for 10 nuclear generators... I wonder if its worth the effort to keep this factory separate to make "cold starts" easier

[hardy sail]

wanna annoy people with my poor belt work

[snow dove]

i’ve seen and made FAR worse

[hardy sail]

lol

[snow dove]

this looks like it was made by someone with OCD compared to some of the belt work i do

[hardy sail]

ive just destroyed that entire factory

it appears I do because that gave that bad of an aneurism

[hardy sail]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PsLhcUhN5khfP2geOma9W8PWIeIEW97_9f-ZFWIqmow/edit

someone make sure this is right/ give me tips

im struggling

You should have commenter, just leave comments on where you think could be updated

[paper compass]

U can use satisfactory calculator and check if that is right

[hardy sail]

have, but i wanna triple check because this is the last thing im doing 2nite

so i dont wanna wake up and want to re-do it

[paper compass]

If u have, then build this and test

[hardy sail]

im not even up to advanced steel yet lol

[frosty owl]

Seeing less than 15 RIP/min as output of one machine makes me want to cry

[hardy sail]

just realised my design and the calculators arent the same

another hour of math is fun

[frosty owl]

If you don't like math, letting the calculator do the annoying part for you might help 😉

What do you mean "new save" and why is the Arch man mentioned?

[hardy sail]

how the hell do I control how it splits

thats why im asking for people to review my math, because this calculator has failed me too much

[opaque oak]

You don't, you just fill a manifold.

And it will balance itself once everything is full.

[hardy sail]

idk if i should know this but// whats a manifold

[frosty owl]

I just do sushi...
The fact that I wanted it to be understandable "by anyone" required the signs (AND tanked my performance...)

Anyway, I made nothing interesting outside of that save... I have literal GBs worth of savefiles, but I doubt you'd be interested in most (all?) of them... I guess I could offer my 7x7 (incomplete) challenge save, or my the save with my first ever sushi, or one with a tentative maximized Turbomotor factory, or the U7 playthrough using tons of early-game sushi...
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[opaque oak]

In this case just any unbalanced conveyer system that works by being full.
Usually means series of mergers or splitters in series one for each machine.

[hardy sail]

oh thats a manifold?

oh.. i been doing that

[frosty owl]

SFTools for the win :P

[hardy sail]

using that site

I have the availability for 10

[frosty owl]

I never changed :P
Blueprints help too now

[hardy sail]

I can afford that

just a little more work and that also means more space

[opaque oak]

Four 1-4/4-1 balancers in that picture. And several more balancers in the same building...

[hardy sail]

im not upset by the idea of more time it just annoys me

[opaque oak]

Also Sushi

[hardy sail]

why did I say us wtf?

[frosty owl]

Da bu di da bu dai... 🎵

[hardy sail]

yikes

yikes

FUCK

im so done

i meant yikes

[frosty owl]

That's like... 8 biomass burners

[hardy sail]

im on coal now

[frosty owl]

That's like... 3 coal gens... Not even 60 coal/min worth of power

[hardy sail]

if i was rich, and had patience, and space

and had the option to transport 500 nearly 600 at a time wtf?

[frosty owl]

And had tons of steel...
I much prefer "wasting" steel to make screws instead :P

[hardy sail]

steel factory comes next.. after modular frames

then quartz after steel

[frosty owl]

You can. Just not on one single belt

[hardy sail]

and then caterium

[frosty owl]

And also limited :/

[opaque oak]

You can, if you trash it...

[hardy sail]

does someone have like.. 2 hours on hand to help me make a simple modular frames factory!? (im just coping

[frosty owl]

I always run out 🤷‍♂️
Steel can do almost everything that Iron can and more. So of course one can prefer that, it's a great way to cut down on machineries

[hardy sail]

would two belts of 120 (one for plates and the other for rods work)?

[frosty owl]

Want iron plates? Add a smodge of plastic and enjoy that 45/min output
Want some RIPs? You bet the ratios go well from Coated Plates to Bolted Plates.
Bolted Frames? Not a sweat.
... Oh, I'm out of Steel Beams for screws already 😅

TLDR: I could always use more Beams

You think I make screws with Rods or Iron?

That takes more steel-per-frame iirc

I used to plan based on a "maximized production" perspective, building big factories (but part of the same big megaproject) in different savefiles so that my hardware could somewhat keep up.

[frosty owl]

To carry 90 and 60/min?
Yes, 120x2 should be capable of that

[hardy sail]

ive given up on using my own design

im just not that smart

youtube will suffice

[frosty owl]

Because it cuts down on buildcount
Eg: take my SFTools production plan (using steel screws and bolted recipes), enable normal or cast screws and see how the buildcount goes up :P
Iirc I cut down on a few thousand stitches plates assemblers for a few hundreds bolted assemblers

[frosty owl]

You need experience.
Jumping on using online tools skips the "let's figure it out" part and you end up feeling annoyed because you don't even understand how the tool reaches the solutions its giving you and lose on valuable (and basic) gameplay experience: how to make a basic factory layout from scratch

Imo, if you "just follow YT video" you'll end up repeating this routine over and over:
See cool thing; want to do cool thing; don't know how to do it; copy it; thing don't work; don't know how to fix it; back to step (1)

[hardy sail]

I've tried, first design was scrapped because it was ugly, took up space, and didnt work, second attempt was too inefficient, third attempt, using sf tools and tips from here ended up being too complicated and I didnt know where to start, I could try be original again but if I do ill end up with a sub par factory that runs just well enough to scrape by

id like to have excess if possible

[frosty owl]

I try taking every new playthrough as a chance to experiment with different recipes, layouts and combinations. It's fun ^^

[wind spade]

I don't even know how the tool reaches the solution and I made it

[frosty owl]

Making a "perfect" factory is a very tall order. You need to know what you like, how to build it and how to layout the production for it. To me, it sounds like you don't even have a hang of the first point yet...
What I want to say is: you're trying to build factories as if you're in end-game when you've barely started the game. Factories need to make stuff for you and give you experience. Give yourself a few more hundred hours before you start losing your mind because your early-game factory isn't exactly as cool as you wish ^^

[frosty owl]

Because you don't play enough. If you did (like me), you would be able to tell almost every time :P

(Almost joking. Experience makes a big difference)

[wind spade]

well... it's purely math based, I don't think playtime makes a difference

[frosty owl]

The more one plays, the more they use the tool and the more familiar they're with resource aviability, the tool's weighting system and recipes combos. These are most of the ingredients needed to understand the solutions the tool provides

[wind spade]

well I'm mostly talking about when I'm developing it and making changes to the algorithm, it does weird shit sometimes 😄

I guess if you're familiar with beta, you'll know what I talk about

[frosty owl]

I don't think so, but that does sound like a smellier can of worms

[wind spade]

"here do you want 2/min byproduct HMF when asking the tool to produce 200 fuel?"

[frosty owl]

Oh, that. I haven't encountered it myself, I just noticed when Cobalt was having issues with the tool "using too much oil" ("byproduct: fabric" instead of making the polymer into Rubber)

[wind spade]

on normal tools it sometimes adds extra step for byproduct for no reason 🤔 but on beta it goes completely haywire sometimes

f.e. "hey do you want to package and unpackage for no reason? 😄

or this

[frosty owl]

||TLDR: Greeny sucks at CODING ||

[hardy sail]

(Cccheck the reply) if I wanted to split the iron ingots to the plate and rod constructors, how would I, would I do 3 constructors for plates and the rest for rods orrr?

[frosty owl]

You can use whichever number of constructors you prefer. As long as their total clock (for plates) is 450%, they'll satisfy your production needs.
About splitting, you could manifold it all or do some load-balancing, at preference

[hardy sail]

youve managed to confuse me more

so vauge..

[frosty owl]

Please reformulate your question ^^

[wind spade]

actually true

[wind spade]

you should split that based on how much rods and plates you need

[hardy sail]

im going to explode, ok, give me a minute to work that out

[wind spade]

figure out what do you want to produce (final product), solve from that

don't start with "I have 120 iron", start with "I want 10 modular frames/min"

[frosty owl]

👆 this is often the easiest kind of planning

[wind spade]

well you still need to know what you want to make

[hardy sail]

I can only produce 5 ref plates per minute, and I only need 3 per modular frame, where the hell do I send the excess 2? or, I can only make 15 rods per minute, what about THOSE excess

it make no sense

[frosty owl]

Sometimes I just do as Max said only knowing the proportion of outputs I want rather than how much x/min I want
Eg: I want 3 RIPs every 2 Frames...

[wind spade]

yeah, that's fine

you need to know at least item type to make though

otherwise the answer to your question is 0-infinity 😄

[hardy sail]

ill just figure it out its fine

[frosty owl]

How about this: use 3 RIPs for Frames, leave the rest for storage/personal use (this is a much more specific question than the previous one!)
Or: underclock the RIP assembler so it only makes 3
Or: make more frames so you need 5 RIPs/min

[wind spade]

well no tool can help you with making things look nice 😛

because "nice" is very subjective 🙂

[frosty owl]

I try to tell people not to follow the planner exactly. I hate the look of those buildings, they seem nonsensical to me :/

[hardy sail]

ok.. but what about the screws? or the plates? how do I make them, where do I put the machines to make them or how do I know what amount to make for the amount of plates im making for the rips? or how do I balance the amount of 12 rods with the amount of 3 rips because the screws also need rods!

idk anymore, might just resort to a bottlenecked system at this point

[wind spade]

which buildings? 🤔 sftools just give you numbers

[frosty owl]

||STFUTools when? ||

[frosty owl]

Building made up of: 6.7 pure copper refineries followed by 12.5 copper sheets constructors with a single 0.5 iron wire one... You get what I mean?
When people literally try to recreate the "production bubbles" the tool visualizes and then even wonder "how do I move 1200/min between two productions..."

[cinder silo]

I don't keep doggos, too much risk of unwanted waste.

[wind spade]

that's not what the planner shows tho. It shows resource flow between recipes, not factories 🤔

[hardy sail]

what if I do 4 plater constructors and underclock two so im making 60 plates a min and then have like.. 6 assemblers for the rips using those plates, then I just have to eyeball the screws I guess

the screws annoy me because I make so many

it just doesnt work out in my head

[wind spade]

make them 1:1

put screw constructors directly in front of machines that need screws

or without having machines not run at 100% efficiency

[hardy sail]

they make too little if I do that, unless I did for and undercloked

clocked*

im confusing mysekf

[wind spade]

if you clock it in a way that it makes exactly that (or e.g. put two constructors for each machine), it's easier

[hardy sail]

self*

[frosty owl]

You can sum that up to 2 points:
1) How many of the input items (screws, plates, Rods) should I make? This is easy to answer when planning from the end-product to the ore. Eg: 5 RIP/min need 30 Plates/min, which need 45 Iron Ingots/min. You also need 60 screws/min, so that's X rods/min and Y ingots/min you need too, so you sum them... And so on going backward from end-product

2) How to split items between destinations? This comes down to either load-balancing or overflowing/manifolding. If curious about either, feel free to ask

[wind spade]

f.e. if a recipe needs 40 and screws make 50, clock screws down to 40 and build 1:1
if a recipe needs 90 and screws make 40, clock recipe to 80 and build two screw constructors

[hardy sail]

i dont know how to load balance

that term gets tossed around and I kinda get it but I dont

[oblique hollow]

its splitting belts

[hardy sail]

I could guess that much

[oblique hollow]

if you have a belt with, say, 60 on it, and you need 40, you split the belt in 3 and recombine 2 outputs

[wind spade]

how to "balance":

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[frosty owl]

When you have 30/min, split it in 3 and merge 2 outputs together, you made a load-balancer that outputs 10/min and 20/min
If you set up a single splitter and expect it to split as you want once the outputs back up you made a manifold (which relies on overflow)
If you recall, a link about manifolding was shared earlier

[wind spade]

yeah now to teach them what "bus" actually means

[hardy sail]

I feel so stupid right now, i feel like I know how to build it but I physically cannot

[frosty owl]

Sushi busses are good

[wind spade]

well most youtubers think that long belt is a bus

stack of belts that goes through your factory, with splitters splitting for machines and mergers merging back ingredients

[oblique hollow]

bus is mostly something for factorio 2D Factory Game, here its less useful

[wind spade]

something like this

[frosty owl]

I call that "inexperience" :P
Do, build, have fun. You're overthinking things imo, errors are made to learn and rebuilding requires no resources, go nuts and experience, find what you like~

[wind spade]

it's pretty bad for SF as it's tons of belts for no reason. For Factorio it makes more sense due to variable input and output

[hardy sail]

looking at the organisation in this image is making it harder for me to build

[oblique hollow]

because that image is a bad example

its not the best kind of thing to do in Satisfactory

[wind spade]

yeah bus is basically bad in Satisfactory (if you want to go for it, we won't stop you though)

my intial point though was that streamers and youtubers misuse the word "bus" to just call any belt a bus

and it gets really confusing

when people come and say "hey I want to bus my items"

[oblique hollow]

basically, if you pull multiple belts to the same place, usually next to each other, its a bus

[wind spade]

not really

you still need that splitting and merging

that's the thing that makes bus a bus

[oblique hollow]

yeah, sorry, missed that

[wind spade]

otherwise it's just stacked belts

[oblique hollow]

kinda like having a main artery with capillaries coming off

[wind spade]

(the term is originally from computing, see this)

without the splitting and merging, it's not a bus, but just lines of wire

[hardy sail]

one sec

gonna re-do my math and re send it for a re-check

re

[opaque oak]

No idea why they didn't use fixed point instead of floating point.

Probably didn't think of it at right point.

"Straight" integers wouldn't work and many times you don't remember about integers as fixed point.

Not overflow. Being able to use small numbers.

Well, then Int32 can do up to 2,147,483,648 and you only need up to few thousands max probably, easy to shift the point to get lot of decimals too.

if signed, and if unsigned the double.

[wind spade]

because XYZ in UE is float I'd assume

[opaque oak]

But you have to remember that is possible when you start, and not when everything is already float32 because you needed the decimals.

Unreal does only Int32 and Float32.

Float64 would solve most of the problems, but that isn't supported.

and changing to fixed point would be a huge rewrite.

[hardy sail]

10 Frames a Minute requires 60 rods and 15 RIP’s Per minute.
60 Rods/Minute = 4 Constructors
60 Rods per minute Requires 60 Iron ingots Per minute 60-240 = 180 to spare
15 RIP’s/Minute = 90 Plates/minute + 180 Screws/Minute
90 Plates/ Minute = 4.5 Constructors, This would use 135 Iron Ingots a minute, 45 left over
180 Screws/Minute = 5 Constructors under clocked, the rods for the screws would need to be made at 45 rods per minute which would use 3 constructors and 45 iron per-minute

Correct me if im wrong but I think this is how my factory should work

dont unfortunately

I think I messed up a little math w/ the first set of rods

none atm

too lazy

later

4 iron rod constructors only uses like.. 40 ingots

no wait

i was right nvm

so I got my math perfect.. time to build

time to.. build

[wind spade]

bolted 🤢

[hardy sail]

grah

how do I get 105 iron ingots out of smelters making 30 a minute

I guess I could underclock

[wind spade]

fast is irrelevant

that's just a matter of how much you build

[opaque oak]

Seems to have: www.unrealdirective.com/tip/float-is-now-double

But haven't been able to find official source.

[oblique hollow]

idk why everyone thinks float is the downfall of belts

[hardy sail]

float?

[cinder silo]

Could always build the belts underwater and rely on "sink" 😛

[opaque oak]

Floating point causes precision issues but can handle large ranges of exponents. Integers are always accurate but the range is limited.

But larger the exponent, less "precise" the float is.

And floats are many times used in place of integers when programmer realizes he needs decimals in the numbers.
But doesn't understand that the correct solution is to use fixed point integers.

But I have no idea if UE4 restricted that Int32 wasn't usable everywhere and only FP32 was supported in some places.

[frosty owl]

Speaking if Stin, do you know if he minds getting pings on this server?
There's something I've been curious to ask

[opaque oak]

Yes, the fixed point integer. But as I said, that isn't always remembered.

[hardy sail]

i hate mid build running out of convyor mats

[frosty owl]

If everyone "misuses" something, there might soon going to be another use (definition) for "something"

In other words: if everyone uses a word a certain way, that word can acquire that meaning (at least in one context)

[opaque oak]

As I said. Float is the wrong solution, but at first glance it seems to be the only solution. When the right is fixed point

[hardy sail]

goddamn it its 12 am again

i always manage to stay up late on this game

which I think is a good thing?

i enjoy playing late more than playing at like midd day

idk why, I just do

AUS bby

that feeling when :

I <3 plates

i was so low on mats cuz my bio kept running out but cooal

ohh coal,

[wind spade]

well but not everyone uses it that way, there's still like half of the community (mostly people from factorio) that use it the correct way

[hardy sail]

now my storages are full

even my rip plate is nearly full

and thats says something bcs that factory was sub par at best

god I can already feel the comfort of my bed

arachnophobia mode gives you an increased advantage over stingers, much easier to see and hear

real

[frosty owl]

You old Factorio players won't win the semantic war!

[hardy sail]

ok

I think my frame factory is ready to be hooked to power now

[frosty owl]

If you enjoy checking out factories just for the production plan rather than seeing the items zooming by/nice decor, the (WIP) 7x7 challenge save I was making might interest you. I'll link a screenshot for reference below
Edit: actually, just check my most recent #screenshots

[hardy sail]

im nervous

if it breaks im gonna kill m-

gonna sleep and try again :)

now I need to make more coal gens

that can happen tomorrow

I jsut wanna hold the first frame

[frosty owl]

That one might be nice if you're looking for very compact designs (no clipping), but it's not properly built :/

... Can you define "properly", though?

[hardy sail]

guts its starting

all the debating in this chat has led to this

no fuse broken would be optimal

I hate how slow it feels at the start

just wait for it to saturate youll be fine

[frosty owl]

Btw, did you ever get to the "credits" part of my SFR savefile?
There's all the people that influenced/help me and my mediocre architecture skills you could try for saves from any of those (I particularly suggest Socio as his building style isn't very "known" so you might have kot seen even any screen of his stuff yet. Also, he has a thousand-hours+ save!)

In the unloading room on the first floor, below the station, on signs placed on the ISCs' sides

I have a U7 version if you wish 👍

[nocturne tinsel]

well, im feeding from above now but its still very inconsistent - last 2 generators are not getting enough fuel and turn off intermittently

[hardy sail]

NOOO

I bottlenecked it

too many screws, overloading my belts

[frosty owl]

I've yet to find reasons to make one

[wind spade]

did you loop the pipe?

[hardy sail]

screw you maxeek

im putting a maxeek sucks sign on my base

[nocturne tinsel]

no but there is a pump at the start

[nocturne tinsel]

oil works just fine, you can see that in the back, green pipes, no loop

[hardy sail]

nearly fucked my whole system by trying to load balance mid saturation

would not recomend

[oblique hollow]

your pipes arent full, thats why

[hardy sail]

leave me alone

[oblique hollow]

you can see that the last few pipes dont have a fully expanded ring

[hardy sail]

im new and im tired

ive done like 2-3 worlds before this

first 1 I got to coal and stopped

second I was nearing the end of phase 1

and this is my third

I only have like 80 hours

[nocturne tinsel]

well yeah thats the problem isnt it

[hardy sail]

compared to games like siege where I have 700 hours im new

[nocturne tinsel]

why dont they?

[hardy sail]

not enough pressure?

or sorry, lift

[nocturne tinsel]

if it reaches the first one it surely should reach the last pipe?

[oblique hollow]

cuz it takes more and more time to fill

[hardy sail]

im sure some kind expert will explain

[oblique hollow]

every pipe has a volume

[nocturne tinsel]

50m pump at the bottom there

[oblique hollow]

50 m pump doesnt matter, its the flow rate that matters

if you feed in 200, then near the end its only like 24 or something

[hardy sail]

put the things that increase on lift on eveyr segment you can

should fix it

[oblique hollow]

less flow near the end means pipes take longer to fill

[oblique hollow]

wtf no

[nocturne tinsel]

yeah i understand that lol

[hardy sail]

:<

[oblique hollow]

you just gotta wait like 30 minutes

[nocturne tinsel]

but its been a shitlong time now, and the 3rd to last has had 50 fuel for a long time

[hardy sail]

basically like conveyors saturating

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats pipes for you

long pipes = long waiting times

which is why your pipes arent the best for this

all veeeeery long from the top down

[nocturne tinsel]

well other than having refineries above the generators i dont see another solution to that problem

[oblique hollow]

piping them near the floor maybe

[nocturne tinsel]

this is the output from refineries

straight into a pump on the right

[hardy sail]

is it a good idea to leave my pc running to let my belts satuarate?

[oblique hollow]

this has the least waiting time

[hardy sail]

ill be leaving it on while I sleep

[oblique hollow]

you wanna waste power for a game?

in the current year?

[hardy sail]

we are on solar

[nocturne tinsel]

you saying that even though its a vertical pipe itll be a longer wait time?

[oblique hollow]

yes because your pipes are super long

compare yours to the one i sent

which one has shorter pipes?

short pipe = shorter fill time

[nocturne tinsel]

well yeah but gravity surely?

[hardy sail]

i can reduce the power cost too, turn off all the fancy lighting, lower graphics to nill, and I my computer has specific power saving modes

[oblique hollow]

wdym gravity

[hardy sail]

Alien planet?

[nocturne tinsel]

hm

[hardy sail]

thats our excuse

its just different there

[nocturne tinsel]

gonna try closer to the ground then

[oblique hollow]

ok please imagine the following for a moment:
a really tall glass vs a short one

which one takes longer to fill

[hardy sail]

short

cuz its wider

[nocturne tinsel]

doesnt matter does it

[oblique hollow]

yeah. and when do glasses spill over

when they are full

[hardy sail]

when they over full

[oblique hollow]

pipes rely on "filling and spilling over"

[nocturne tinsel]

oh yeah good point lol

[oblique hollow]

this is exactly like in real life

if you have a long pipe and fill it from the top, its gonna take a long ass time

[opaque oak]

And if you keep drawing from the filling pipes, it might not fill up ever.

[oblique hollow]

yeah. this isnt just a glass, this is a glass with some dude sipping from it constantly

[hardy sail]

just realised my assemblers have been idle for like 10 mins

didmt power them

[oblique hollow]

and you gotta fill the glass fast enough to spill over

if you want, you can turn off some generators

so all the pipes fill

and once full, turn it all back on

[hardy sail]

shes-a workin, thanks to everyone to helped me!

[wind spade]

loop the pipe, it should work

[leaden depot]

My VIP Junction jammed up, and I am not sure why. Should have ~420 recycling from the left, and ~160 from right as needed. Shouldn't this work?

The refineries on the left were stopped because the water filled up.

does the pump on the right perhaps need to be at ground level?

[noble current]

I need some clarifcation with decimals...

If I set a mk3 miner to, lets say, 105,75%, will it produce exactly 507,6/min as it shows, or will it differ from that output?

[leaden depot]

it does round at a certain point, but it will show at least 2 decimal places if so

[opaque oak]

Need to calculate based on the percentage. The shown /min value can be rounded differently. But in this case as is only has single decimal it should match.

[noble current]

will it round up or down tho?

[opaque oak]

Depends.

Normal rounding rules for the shown values.

Just take the 100% production and calculate yourself with the percentage you are going to use to check.

[noble current]

wdym?

[opaque oak]

480 * (105,75 / 100) = 507,6

So it matches. But if the percentage had 4 decimals, or the /min had 2 decimals, you couldn't be sure and have to check.

[noble current]

ah

well, I was curious, because with that I have a 0,3/min error margin (actually overproducing 0,3/min), which is why I was curious

[snow dove]

it’ll go to four decimals but will only show 2

[noble current]

time to set up 43 refineries and 193 constructors, lol

[opaque oak]

But usually the small possible difference doesn't matter.

[noble current]

I was just afraid of the possibility of underproducing

[stone delta]

any thoughts on how to build a high bandwidth universal smart splitter?

[tropic hawk]

hey, what are all of the different materials used in building production buildings?

[tropic hawk]

Don't.

[oblique hollow]

the pumps go on the input side

not one on input, one on output

[leaden depot]

those are both inputs. Output is to the bottom right

[stone delta]

why?

[oblique hollow]

huh..
oh well, cant help there.
If the VIP doesnt want to, it doesnt want to.
you can try rebuilding it or whatever, but theres absolutely 0 guarantee you can get it to work

which is why i no longer tell people about the VIP when they wanna recycle water in aluminum processing

[pulsar viper]

Is there a best practices spacing between train tracks to allow for smooth turns and junctions

[stone delta]

using two adjacent foundations with each rail center on each works for me

[tall kestrel]

Endgame-related question: I built a factory that supplys me of 16200 copper sheets/min. Now Im looking for the best way to load/unload it via trains for my nuclear plant (all uranium nodes) and more stuff...Would you rather put one long train for that purpose or a shorter one and place 2 trains? distance between those two factories is travelling from paradise Island to north-west side of the map...

[stone delta]

im not sure why you would need two disconnected trains

[pulsar viper]

Thanks!

[tall kestrel]

the thing is Im not sure if I can achieve higher throuput by refilling one train station with 2 750/min belts or by more carts...

[dull vortex]

anyone know of a way that i can combine 3 belts of the same output per minute (not maxed out belts) to fill 2 belts and the overflow into a 3rd?

[stone delta]

you can build one train, and then put a sink on the end to verify, also make sure you have storage buffers on either station with two belts

[tall kestrel]

Id use a merger (3 in 1) and put a smart splitter afterwards setting two outputs to your output item and the third one to overflow...

[tall kestrel]

yeah sure need to cover the travel time either way well okay then its one train

[dull vortex]

i dont think that would work the way i want because that would always use the middle belt but the outer 2 would eventually get backed up which i dont want

[pulsar viper]

What logic do you want for the overflow then

And what's the reasoning for not wanting the first two lines to back up

[tall kestrel]

well if those 3 belts are all together the belt maximum, the backup shouldnt be much. try to put smart splitters with overflow beforehands and see what they are splitting out

[dull vortex]

i have 3 belts making 390 per minute on mk4 belts. i want 2 belts at 480 and the remaining goes into a 3rd overflow belt

[tall kestrel]

easy thing do it like I said and put a smart splitter on every input with the overflow setting for the overflow belt and combine them

[dull vortex]

im not following

[tall kestrel]

belt1 (390) with belt2(390) into a merger equals one 480 belt+overflow. one smart splitter before the merger of belt1 and 2 so you get the first overflow. the take belt 3 with a merger to that overflow and youre fine

[pulsar viper]

That's the solution

[leaden depot]

That makes sense. I diverted the output water to a decomissioned coal plant, and it works much better. I get a free power boost anytime the aluminum is flowing

[pulsar viper]

Well... kind of. Each of the lines should be split 2 ways with the 3rd way being the overflow

And all 3 of the lines should feed the 2 mergers that you want to be fully saturated

I would stack 3 of these on top of eachother

................^Output 1 (Any)
Input-->SS-->Overflow
................vOutput2 (Any)

[dull vortex]

i need a picture.i kinda follow but not completely

[pulsar viper]

Sadly I'm at work so that's the best picture I can give

SS = Smart splitter. Those are the settings for each of the outputs

So for each smart splitter, you have 1 input and 3 outputs

For the settings in the splitter, have left and right be set to "Any". In the picture, those are outputs 1 and 2. Output 1 = your 1st line of 480 and output 2 = your 2nd line of 480

So do this for all 3 of your input lines. Then, you can merge the 3 output 1 lines and the 3 output 2 lines for your 2 lines of 480

Those smart splitters will each try to send 195 (390/2) to each side and when they hit belt limits, will overflow the rest down the middle

[tall kestrel]

belt on the right is your final overflow belt while the other 2 belts are full 480. not much space-saving but working

[pulsar viper]

Yh my solution isn't exactly space efficient either xD

But both solutions will accomplish your goal

[tall kestrel]

lol forgot one belt between the SS of belt 2 to the merger for output 2. but I hope you got the Idea

[pulsar viper]

Also a good time to plug manifolds

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold?so=search

[tropic hawk]

Well you can... Just don't expect it to be by any means compact... And every time you add a belt that it grows in size by how many belts (100% growth for 2, 67% for 3, 50% for 4, etc.)

[dull vortex]

still unable to get it working properly

[oblique hollow]

takes time

[oblique hollow]

did you remember to connect the second overflow belt?

this is for 3 input belts

[mental rover]

what is this even about

[tropic hawk]

Argument being redirected from #satisfactory

[mental rover]

well yeah but like whats the argument about

is it just 1 guy not understanding stuff and not trying solutions

[tropic hawk]

I think so

[pulsar viper]

Where are you stuck?

For each of your three lines, set up something like this:
................^Output 1 (Any)
Input-->SS-->Overflow
................vOutput2 (Any)

For each one of these input lines, we'll label them a, b, and c. So input a would result in output 1a, 2a, and overflow a.
Output 1a---v
Output 1b->Merger--->mk4
Output 1c---^

Output 2a---v
Output 2b->Merger--->mk4
Output 2c---^

Overflow a---v
Overflow b->Merger--->Overflow
Overflow c---^

[tall kestrel]

If he follows the design McGalleon shared he most probably missed a "overflow" setting in one of those splitters. its bulletproof

[tropic hawk]

The design he used is a standard belt compressor set up twice

[tall kestrel]

and the best of it: expandable endless

[tropic hawk]

Yep

[oblique hollow]

thats how you get a compressor matrix

[tropic hawk]

Though word from the wise, allot two square foundations per compressor. Otherwise you get a mess

[pulsar viper]

Ahhh gotcha!

[wind spade]

or don't do compressors 😛

[pulsar viper]

Out of curiosity, how do you all manage raw resource outputs? I'm currently transitioning from truck depots to trains and am trying to figure out if I want to restructure my system. Currently, I have truck depots that are depositing into a buffer storage that then has 2 output lines that I use for the different resources. My biggest worry with this system is that I am starting to lose track of exactly how many resources are left on each of the 2 lines and worry that this system will be pretty hard to keep track of as the megafactory expands

[wind spade]

well, I wouldn't do megafactory in the first place

I would build separate bases around the map near resources they need and then just transport final products into central storage for building

[pulsar viper]

Idk part of me enjoys being able to see a city of different structures with each structure being dedicated to a specific component

[wind spade]

well then you have to deal with the consequences - harder logistics, easier to mess up and low fps 😛

[pulsar viper]

Yeah I'm saying all of this in like tier 6

Currently, the structures that I have around the factory are just making basic things like heavy modular frames, crystal oscillators, and computers

I just felt it was easier to centralize all of the resources to then be branched off for different uses

[wind spade]

well each "use" knows exactly how much of which resource it needs, so it's better to build near those resources

[pulsar viper]

With that method, how do you gauge how much of that thing to produce

That was always my biggest hesitation with the satellite factory system: with my current design, I produce only what is needed for that use and nothing else

[wind spade]

well, you look at an item and check which buildings need that item, you estimate how much you're gonna build (or just guess some small number like 5/min). If you keep running out, you increase production

[pulsar viper]

Yh makes sense

I might try and migrate over to a system like that then

Do you have any suggestions/recommendations on how to decide where the best locations for different component facilities would be?

[wind spade]

well you figure out how many raw resources you need and find a nice place near those resources (or train in a few resources from other place)

[tall kestrel]

I mostly check for areas I dont care beeing covered by foundations and supply enough water/oil/nitrogen...then set a radius you want to travel at max and hammer the numbers into the calculator to get max output^^ works pretty well

[pulsar viper]

I'll probably wait until I have trains/drones all set to go before making the switch

But I think that may be the way to go

[tropic hawk]

How I want the exterior to look, or how close it is to a transit hub

[oblique notch]

Hey @wind spade do you take suggestions for Tools? I am curious if it be possible to add to the drop down for items/min or maximum other options like "belts" (ie produce enough to fill a mk1 belt) or factories (ie enough to cause 5 manufacturers to be completely full)

since most of my builds are decoration based, I usually have a space and know i can fit "x" machines into it. Yes, i can do the math myself and make the tools work for it, but im lazy too and sometimes don't want to think :p

[wind spade]

machines is impossible, you don't know which recipe will be used

[oblique notch]

mmm fair,fair

well, not without additional input which would be a fundamentally different approach to how your entire tool works. Fair. Fair.

guess ill just have to keep using this brain of mine. Ah well.

either that or code my own and ... nah, no thank you. lol

i already did most of that and dont want to clean it up 🤣

[tropic hawk]

The belts one is nice, and I would like that

[tropic hawk]

Though I would recommend putting it on the SFTools discord rather than this one

[wind spade]

belts are... decent, but you can just put "60" instead of "mk1" 😄

[pulsar viper]

Aside from added "complexity" of needing to package/unpack water, setting up fuel refining using packaged diluted fuel seems to yield the same fuel with less power than the blender option. Am I missing something or is there no real downside to implementing this prior to having T7 bauxite refining done

[fierce ruin]

I was thinking and trains

Trains are alittle complecated

but a manual for everything is cool

also quick question will trains go up 2m concrete?

[tropic hawk]

Complexity and the need for loops. Blender superiority

[tropic hawk]

Depends on the ratio of engines:cars, but usually

[fierce ruin]

oh

1:4 right?

[tropic hawk]

That is the suggested one, so yes

[fierce ruin]

alr thanks

[stone delta]

if your only using one monorail with differently programmed trains to supply different resources to daisy chained facilities, then is the number of trains on the single rail the only limiting bandwidth of supply? assuming you use buffers appropriately and you can put down arbitrary number of daisy chained facilities?

[tropic hawk]

If I understand you correctly, that the only thing limiting train bandwidth is the amount of trains on a circuit, then no

[oblique notch]

Yep, I know. And I can do 25 for five machines of a recipe that produces 5/min but I'm lazy 😜... that and I'm always forgetting how many are on a mk5. Is 720 or 780? And looordy knows I dot have any idea how many a given recipe produces without going to thr wiki.

But no worries! Thought it be a nice QoL feature but also, very much not necessary in anyway 😅

[wind spade]

well belts are possible and I may add that

machines - not really

[oblique notch]

Yeah makes perfect sense. Given thst your sire automatically picks the most efficient recipe from those available there is not a good way to do machines

Listen to me explaining things to the creator of the sight 🙄 heh

[hardy sail]

Good morning guys

woke up to a nice suprise, the modular frame factory I built last night is now full!

[wind spade]

there's even fun cases like "multiple recipes make same item", e.g. if you make rubber from recycled loop + residual rubber 🙂

in that case, "produce 4 buildings worth" is even less useful 😄

[hardy sail]

when is the ideal time for a steel factory

[wind spade]

when you need steel

[hardy sail]

i was thinking about building it right after my coal but i need frames, and my frame factory sucks up 200 MW so i need more coal

so i think I have to make more coal then I can finally do steel

and quartz actually

[tropic hawk]

is it 720 or 780?
Me too!

[tropic hawk]

Before HMFs

[wind spade]

I haven't played the game much and yet I know that lol

[oblique notch]

Yeah f that loop. Ugh. That was a pain in the butt for my efficiency calculations

[fierce ruin]

So im trying to calculate this

I need one of these to be 60%

but since I got 2 floors I need both to be unclocked to X amount

I need to know X amount

or can I just unclock 1 and it works

[hardy sail]

second set of 8 coal gens now connected

if im working on a quartz plant is it 100% nessacery that I include stuff further down on the research tree?

[dull vortex]

i found a manifold that works

[wind spade]

all manifolds work 🤔

[dull vortex]

i needed to find one that made 3 belts of 410 into 2 belts of 480 and 1 belt of 270

[wind spade]

that's... not a manifold

also, why would you want that?

just connect each belt into machines that need 410 resources

[hardy sail]

@main dagger im gonna dm you some of previous planning soyou can get an idea of my previous attempts at math

[dull vortex]

correction, its very close to working

[dull vortex]

what ever. i need one and im close to getting one working

[wind spade]

again though, why?

also, manifold looks like this:

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[dull vortex]

i still need help.

[wind spade]

with?

[dull vortex]

making the odd balancer

i just need something that takes 3 belts of 410 and makes 2 480 belts and 1 270 belt without having any of the input lines back up

[cinder silo]

1270 belt? that's too hard.

[dull vortex]

im not that good with things like this

and its 1230

im very close, i just cant figure out how to fix it

[cinder silo]

If you absolutely have to, just have the middle belt of 410 go in to a smart splitter, the centre being overflow, the left and right feed mergers on a pair of mk4 belts with whatever filter you see fit.

[wind spade]

also, heavily recommended to not do it

[heady breach]

Ive tried that and it doesn’t work. The outer 2 inputs slowly back up

[wind spade]

instead just put each 410 belt to machines that need 410

[heady breach]

I wanna do it my way

[cinder silo]

🤷‍♂️

Ill advised but you do you.

[wind spade]

the problem is that you're maxing belts

[heady breach]

I know. Its a pain in the butt to figure out but i want to

[wind spade]

are you aware of the bug that makes belts lose throughput if they are full?

[cinder silo]

If not you might want to look through #1006573529183027401 the results may surprise.

[tropic hawk]

That's two belt compressors.

[vapid gorge]

Instead of doing a really complex balancing why not just clock the machine’s production to make X items and only merge those machines?

[heady breach]

The lines are coming from 3 different lines of refineries

Im bringing in 3 iron lines of 480 and putting them into refineries using the pure iron recipe

I have 15 refineries per line at 3 lines. I would use up more space that way.

[wind spade]

you should always build machines after you've figured out logistics for previous step

[heady breach]

Nein

[fervent narwhal]

how would i split 262.5m³ into 37.5m³ and 225m³ per minute

[heady breach]

Use a valve

I think thats what its called. You can use it to limit flow

[fervent narwhal]

should've read the description first
always thought they were used for closing off segments of pipes

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that’s where over and under clocking come in - but it’s a hell of a lot simpler

[wind spade]

just a single pipe junction

[wind spade]

no, don't use valves

[vapid gorge]

Don’t use a valve - they do not work as people expect them.

You can either just split it normally and let the pipes self balance by having the machines consuming the right number OR clock the machines so you can merger the exact amounts at location of production

[heady breach]

They work for me when i used them.

[fervent narwhal]

alright

[wind spade]

valves working is mostly luck or the setup would work without valves as well

[vapid gorge]

They will at best do nothing bad or at worst stutter the whole thing.

There are very few pipe situations that benefit from valves and buffers

[hardy sail]

For some reason my system turned off, none of my coal gens powered off however, but all of my factorys stopped, no power was lost and the it was able to be turned on soon after

anyone got any idea what might have happened?

[vapid gorge]

Do you mean all your machines became full and shut off?

[hardy sail]

Nope, It restarted so im not worried

just curious

[opaque oak]

All have their uses.

[hardy sail]

3 woulda been nice when I was building my EID factory

[opaque oak]

It's IMHO the best overall steel recipe.

[hardy sail]

alr thanks

oh wow yeah

thats like 43 less of iron and coal

[vast jungle]

solid steel reduced both iron and coal consumption... much better than "pure steel"... of course if you really want, you can combine the two

[oblique notch]

Does t matter and never does 😁. Take the one you're most likely to use next.

Other than Bolted. Bolted is a trap. 😜😅

[wind spade]

it has it's uses, same as the other two 🤷‍♂️

[oblique notch]

It does. They all do, truthfully - but... bolted is definitely the most niche

[vast jungle]

Sometimes you are just screwed...

[oblique notch]

I sometimes wonder if bolted just exists to help you use up stored screws faster when you realize you don't ever need to store screws

[frosty owl]

To me, it's a trade: use a bit more Screws (than normal recipe), need less machines (in combo with steel screws, thus the "screw cost" translates in more steel used than standard recipe)

The ratios go well with flexible frames too, iirc. In machines: 1 bolted plate -> 2 bolted frames - > 1(?) flexible frame

[tribal gyro]

quick question, does a smart splitter have a max speed? or is it just however you can feed it. (270/min incase of a t3 conveyer)

[wind spade]

all splitters and mergers are instant

[tribal gyro]

cool thanks

[heady breach]

anyone have a 3 to 2 balancer with a third output for overflow?

i have this balancer im trying to make but cant seem to get it working. its close to working right but not there yet. im trying to basically make a 3 to 2 balancer with a third belt for overflow

[heady breach]

@oblique hollow using yours

i got a gap in the mk4 even tho there is just enough to fill all 3 belts

[oblique hollow]

overview of the splitter setup please?

its funny that the right mk 4 seems to have no gaps

and neither does the middle belt

even tho the mk 3 should have gaps

[heady breach]

it switches sometimes

its 3 lines of 410 per minute going in

[oblique hollow]

hm.... and the mk 3 is.... full?

[heady breach]

there should be no gaps at all

[oblique hollow]

do the inputs back up?

they shouldnt, but.....

[heady breach]

one is

[oblique hollow]

huh... which one

[heady breach]

its usually not obvious until a few minutes later on.

i.... guess its working now. no gaps for a bit

nevermind

[oblique hollow]

cant detect any issues on my end

[heady breach]

how long were you watching it?

[oblique hollow]

minutes

[heady breach]

those gaps were something i wanted to fix so i am trying something a tiny bit different

[oblique hollow]

since i couldnt detect any on my end, the design doesnt really see to be the issue. maybe whatever you are producing comes in a lot more bursts

.. also makes no sense

[heady breach]

yes. rn i have it on a switch so it does come in bursts

i turn it off in between output reworks so they all produce a cycle at once

i might have found a winner

this one doesnt seem to have any issues yet so its the most promising so far

[oblique hollow]

thats funny

i built this exact one further below my original image

#design-and-architecture message

there

[tropic hawk]

My friend, have you looked at the belt compressor? Just set up two of them.

[heady breach]

I have solved my issue

Whats a belt compressor?

[wind spade]

compresses belts, usually not needed but some people like to build them for some reason

[tropic hawk]

It takes two inputs and makes one as full a belt as possible, and the other one is overflow. It never clogs.

[wind spade]

makes full belts that are problematic

[tropic hawk]

It's not always full, just as full as possible.

[heady breach]

Where can i find a belt compressor bp?

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=belts

[tropic hawk]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer

Scroll down in the article until you hit belt compressor

@willow finch
The schematic for the 3:8 Coal Power plant

[shy mist]

tier 7 and 8 is the worst tiers in the game

[maiden steeple]

Imo the worst spot is after you’ve unlocked everything in t4 and are just making stuff for space elevator

And can’t build anything really because you know you’re about to get a bunch of upgrades right when this finishes

[tropic hawk]

Actually T1-4 is the worst.

[oblique hollow]

7 and 8 is where the fun begins

[sweet wave]

Hi guys, im trying to balence 3 equal belts to 8 equal outputs but cant quite work out the splitter/merger layout for this to work, any chance someone smarter than me can give me a hand?

[wind spade]

hi, first of all, do you really need to balance? a simple manifold can be much easier to build, if you're fine with that

manifold:

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[sweet wave]

No i dont really need to balance, although im not quite shure how to get my 3 lines to all go equally into my 8 outputs with a manifold as my belts are at capacity already and i cant merge them

[wind spade]

well other easy option is to build 9 buildings instead of 8, underclock them accordingly and have each belt go to 3 machines