So I was thinking about how you'd go about designing a factory that would complete a milestone the fastest. I was figuring that you'd want to make one that produces the required items at rates proportional to the amounts required while consuming less than or equal to the available resources. Is this the correct line of thinking/has anyon3 here done something similar before?
#math-and-meta
proven cobalt
carmine wigeon
So I was thinking about how you'd go about designing a factory that would comple...
Do you mean a milestone or a space elevator stage?
wintry aurora
Which milestone? And the early ones go through pretty quick, so....
proven cobalt
Either/or really just thinking in general
carmine wigeon
You don't really need to create a factory specifically for milestones
For the space elevator, phase 1 and 2 I probably wouldn't bother either
Phase 3 and 4 would warrant automation, the decision you'd need to make would be how quickly you want the items produced and how long will it take you to build that factory (which is something only you can know since you know what you've already got automated)
You could theoretically build a factory that can produce all of the items for phase 4 in less than an hour, though it would take you a very long time to plan and build such a factory
wintry aurora
You don't really need to create a factory specifically for milestones
I've made temporary ones, but that's usually like getting the stuff in there quickly or something.
carmine wigeon
I've made temporary ones, but that's usually like getting the stuff in there qui...
Well yes that's more just rushing to unlock new milestone items. But typically you'll be wanting to automate the new components anyway so you can use them to build stuff. So you're not creating a factory purely to churn out your 1000 plastic you need for your tier 5 and 6 milestones but one that will supply a steady stream for your building needs (at the least)
proven cobalt
Ah, yeah I was really just thinking hypothetically if that's the kind of factory you'd want to make if you wanted to minimize time to a milestone/space elevator goal. Cause yeah, it would be a pretty big waste of time of that was your only factory in an actual ongoing game
sonic wasp
the last elevator parts are great for sink points
so they serve a dual purpose and a challenge
glacial hemlock
So I was thinking about how you'd go about designing a factory that would comple...
Watch the speedrun 29hours 100% to understand how to optimize the workflow. At the beginning loot crash sites, it really helps.
foggy cloak
Where i can watch ?
wind spade
foggy cloak
I cant find it, im only see a speedrun package2
wind spade
I assume they are talking about these? https://www.speedrun.com/satisfactory?h=4Package-Update_5-Solo&x=02qepjp2-kn0zgoo8.4qy2xo41-p8555q58.mln2850l
glacial hemlock
I cant find it, im only see a speedrun package2
or youtube, search 4Package%
tawdry sail
Ah, yeah I was really just thinking hypothetically if that's the kind of factory...
See box crafting technique. Is one of the best ways to get the phases done if you have a good storage room
charred panther
Just wondering if this is correct or not because the mk5 conveyor can transport 780 materials total you can't overclock a mk3 miner (on a pure node) to 130 percent to get complete efficiency from it because the conveyor belt is the limiting factor.
median heath
That is correct.
It's been that way for years.
The 1200 from a mk3 at 250% on a pure was set before they knew mk5 belts would be the limit.
It's going to be addressed prior to 1.0.
median heath
No.
"mk5 belts would be the limit"
Game barely handles mk5s.
Mk6s would be worse.
charred panther
Understandable
median heath
They had them in testing at one point but pulled them before they shipped to the main game.
charred panther
How long have you been playing I remember joining at update 3 then had a break and joined back not too long ago but I can't remember my brain melting like this 🤣
median heath
Since before it was even available on Steam.
grim crane
Since before it was even available on Steam.
That’s long
I remember mk6 belts being available in old files even before update 2, including mk2 buildings back then
barren elm
I still hope mk2 buildings make a return
fierce cypress
probably not
barren elm
Some builds look positively ridiculous due to building counts
fierce cypress
i feel like that will be a mod thing but not a vanilla thing
i could see some mod that allows like overclock above 250% or mk2 buildings, or something like that that lowers building count
barren elm
Should never need mods to solve vanilla issues
fierce cypress
its not an issue
vapid gorge
I still hope mk2 buildings make a return
that's what overclock is. They replaced faster buildings with overclocking
barren elm
its not an issue
Performance isn't an issue with large builds?
vapid gorge
Also you're the one giving yourself problems with building count
bronze barn
I dont have issues with my massive builds and I'm on pretty old hardware
fierce cypress
Performance isn't an issue with large builds?
thats why people who go big or are doing demanding projects save edit in a bunch if shards, thats already 2.5 times less buildings
barren elm
So you're already aware of the problem then
fierce cypress
mk2 buildings would pretty much require a re-do of recipe progression
bronze barn
Not to mention entirely new models of existing buildings to accommodate mk2
barren elm
Would they tho? Let's say they just operated twice as fast for twice the power, like how mk2 power poles have (almost) twice the connections
bronze barn
They also have a different model
barren elm
Don't really think there'd be much progression interference there
fierce cypress
Would they tho? Let's say they just operated twice as fast for twice the power, ...
but then thats just overclocking - the solution the devs have chosen to use
barren elm
They also have a different model
I mean... there's not much else to say to that other than "So what?"
fierce cypress
I mean... there's not much else to say to that other than "So what?"
more work and effort for something that has been addressed and moved past already
vapid gorge
So you're already aware of the problem then
Well it's only a problem if you make it a problem right? You can get through the game with very small builds.
barren elm
Well it's only a problem if you make it a problem right? You can get through the...
Tbh there's no response to that line of thinking
Like that's just personal choice
fierce cypress
i feel like that will be a mod thing but not a vanilla thing
but either way, i still feel like this is the most likely outcome
vapid gorge
Tbh there's no response to that line of thinking
exactly - people can deal with the consequences of their choices right? If you want huge builds with little computer issues build a rig like Tunnelrat's
he's a madman
bronze barn
I mean... there's not much else to say to that other than "So what?"
It's work that could be spend elsewhere... On getting the game to 1.0 state
barren elm
Yeah I don't agree with that, it's like saying "Why bother improving performance, just choose to build small"
bronze barn
They improve performance every update though
vapid gorge
... it's not a performance issue - it's a user created problem. You can do pretty god damn big builds especially if you create hubs as it is
bronze barn
In fact u5 -> 6 did a lot of good for performance
vapid gorge
I mean performance is involved but you can work around it unless you run a potato
fierce cypress
yea, its not an optimisation
vapid gorge
Like all things in the game there's give and takes.
Less resources? Prob needs more space
ect ect
barren elm
Feels like you're both aware of the problem but your solutions are just "Don't do it", which is fine, but that's like, kinda pointless to discuss
vapid gorge
Feels like you're both aware of the problem but your solutions are just "Don't d...
Well it's a bit like complaining that staring into the sun causes damage to your eyes.
The solution is don't do it.
completely changing things up and removing huge chunks of logistics in games is a pretty big deal cause thats a game mechanic to play with
fierce cypress
Feels like you're both aware of the problem but your solutions are just "Don't d...
what we're saying is it isn't a problem, in any sandbox game you're eventually going to get to a point where your computer cannot handle the sheer quantity of buildings, the solution isn't to make buildings that are better, because then you are just delaying the 'problem'
vapid gorge
and wanting faster machines is a fine personal choice - but it completely changes the way the game is played with logistics and planning
at that point - just use some mods if you really feel that way
fierce cypress
exactly
bronze barn
Feels like you're both aware of the problem but your solutions are just "Don't d...
Wdym? I do it on years old hardware and don't have an issue
barren elm
Congratulations
To flip it around, if coffeestain were like, "Ok we're adding mk2 buildings that cost end-game resources", would you be here arguing that it's a bad idea?
vapid gorge
I mean it's fine not being happy with a Thing - but when it's core gameplay stuff they'll never make everyone happy
vapid gorge
To flip it around, if coffeestain were like, "Ok we're adding mk2 buildings that...
ehhhhhhhh..... I can't imagine it being a thing w/o significantly hindering work on literally any other aspect of the game
and that would make me unhappy
If I want mk2 buildings there's a mod for it
there are mods that let you build nodes and just have everything in one spot if that gets your motor going
fierce cypress
To flip it around, if coffeestain were like, "Ok we're adding mk2 buildings that...
it depends on what the mk2 buildings actually do, if theyre just better versions but are balanced within the game then its fine, if they have separate uses even better, but then it just gets to the point where you start arguing "we need better buildings because mk2 still causes issues eventually" its a never ending cycle, and with the current buildings it is fine as they are, and im sure if you disagree you could find a mod to fix it
vapid gorge
It'd be easier to just make overclocking have a higher cap if people really want that
if they do the same recipes? Just make have even faster overclock that guzzles power
Different recipes? Make them new buildings
fierce cypress
i could see some mod that allows like overclock above 250% or mk2 buildings, or ...
which is exactly what i said 
vapid gorge
I'm pretty sure there are mods that also do like 10x recipe speed?? there's a lot of options out there that radically alter game play for people who want it
fierce cypress
the only problems i can see are belt throughput limitations
vapid gorge
and mk10 belts ! 😄
vapid gorge
machines that 'package' items into 'boxes' of items that get unpackaged later down the line to manage increased throughput
vapid gorge
imagine the throughput loss <:jacelul:489777945909526528>
NO idea. Was never interested in those mods
Yeah teh boxing and unboxing one was interesting but didn't want to fiddle with it. Stuck to trains and keeping things local instead
oblique hollow
They rather don't do Mk 2 because it effectively retires Mk 1.designs
simply slapping a mk 2 on it and not changing design wont do
as stated above, shards also help alleviate some of that problematic
not to mention alts
barren elm
To be pedantic
oblique hollow
Mk 2 buildings is not the only option
barren elm
That's already the case with power poles
oblique hollow
yeah, which are basic ass things
barren elm
I mean, so are constructors
oblique hollow
they dont feel like its warranted for production buildings
theres other ways to solve it
be that a stat boost or what ever the hell
but even that has problems
Mk.2 Buildings are the last option to fall back on if all the other stuff doesnt work out
barren elm
Would you be surprised if they roll them out?
oblique hollow
yes, very much so
Since twice speed buildings also clashes with belts
they already have speed issues
why worsen it
or even a 1.5x boost.
but, again, shards exist
barren elm
I'll be honest I fully expect a total review of all belt outputs/inputs to solve the 780 speed issue anyway
oblique hollow
Rather than a coal gen mk 2, theres fuel gens
Rather than a Fuel gen mk. 2 or whatever, you get nuclear
barren elm
Sounds like the only way to fix it is to halve resource costs (and yes I know some of them can't be halved)
Yeah I think power is in a pretty good spot in terms of building counts
oblique hollow
As for other stuff? They just gotta tweak recipes
easies way to cut down building count
and they wanna do a recipe revamp someday anyway
perfect moment to reevaluate all this
barren elm
That does seem inevitable
oblique hollow
yep, and its the perfect time to revisit this topic of machine count
Default Recipes, Alts and Power Shards
the trinity of balance
supple spire
how many coal generators can i run on 180 coal a min
my belts can handle it
and my water i know how to upgrade that
snow dove
take the amount a coal generator needs, divide 180 by that number
supple spire
k thx
short holly
remember that your mk1 pipes only support 300m3/s in any given section.
supple spire
yea i can add multiple
i can even do one water collecter per coal plant
that would be stupid tho
median heath
I see we had the mk2 building discussion again...
supple spire
nah
supple spire
I see we had the mk2 building discussion again...
how much can a mk2 belt move lmao
median heath
Up to 120/min
supple spire
nevermind i read the description my bad i should have read that earlier
supple spire
Up to 120/min
i need mk3
median heath
So go unlock it!
frosty owl
I'll be honest I fully expect a total review of all belt outputs/inputs to solve...
I'm not too confident they will. I hope they still plan to have a revamp done (in which case they would at least try to tackle the issue), but if not... this might be left unsolved as it is in Factorio. I heard that even that dev team didn't manage to avoid throughput issues at some belt junctions (bends), leading me to think that it might be too big a hassle to solve for the payoff
wind spade
I'm not too confident they will. I *hope* they still plan to have a revamp done ...
what is the "unsolved" issue in Factorio?
frosty owl
wind spade
huh, never heard of that
I know this was an issue way back, but then they changed stuff and said it was fixed
oblique hollow
also makes sense in the way that factorio pipes arent really made for max flow
you are always below the limit
wind spade
so either it's old news or it's a new issue
oblique hollow
or you need 5 million pumps
barren elm
Compression loss on factorio belt corners was a thing yeah, still is afaik
wind spade
factorio pipes aren't "rated" for a certain flow anyway, since factorio uses pressure-based system
wind spade
indeed
(but also, in Factorio it's kinda rare that you need a throughput that would require you to put a pump every pipe tile)
oblique hollow
if you consider that our pipes are also 1000 units for one, ours are just as fast
barren elm
Does seem like they fixed the corner compression loss bug tho from a quick search, dunno if there's some other bug they were referring to
frosty owl
Us pipes bestest 🐒
oblique hollow
our pipes have 6 times the theoughput of factorio
frosty owl
Does seem like they fixed the corner compression loss bug tho from a quick searc...
My hope for the similar issue in SF to be fixed too increases a bit
oblique hollow
36000 units/sec
wind spade
our pipes have 6 times the theoughput of factorio
and suck 6 times more than factorio
oblique hollow
vs factorios 12000
oblique hollow
~~and suck 6 times more than factorio~~
eh, slight stability issues
can be improved
frosty owl
Wait... Was greeny always blue? 
Am I tripping?
Or suddenly daltonic?
oblique hollow
100/60
wind spade
vs factorios 12000
that's pump throughput, not pipe 😄
frosty owl
i need help with numbers
What do they mean, Mason?
What are the numbers?
oblique hollow
that's pump throughput, not pipe 😄
ah.... wait
brittle flint
ok thank you
wind spade
ah.... wait
wind spade
basically 3000 is what you want to count, as 6000 means "pump, pipe, pump, pipe", while in ideal world you want to do "pump, underground pipe, pump, underground pipe"
wind spade
Wait... Was greeny always blue? <:thinking_helmet:479928734481121282>
Am I tripp...
yeah got "promoted" by Baine (well, I was testing some stuff for him in #1038092680493801533 and he was giving me different roles to test link posting and after last test with dark blue role he said "consider yourself promoted" 😄 )
brittle flint
will needing .067 more cause a problem
wind spade
the machine will stop once in a while, but shouldn't be an issue if you only need the production from 100 crude
oblique hollow
will needing .067 more cause a problem
set the number more precisely
frosty owl
yeah got "promoted" by Baine (well, I was testing some stuff for him in <#103809...
👏 👏
So you got a pay rise, I see...
Too bad you never play to spend those Satiscoins 
wind spade
i have figured it out thank you
well, this isn't 50 exactly either 🤷♂️
brittle flint
😭
wind spade
it's 49.99998/min
oblique hollow
basically 3000 is what you want to count, as 6000 means "pump, pipe, pump, pipe"...
aight so what im getting at is our pipes are ridiculously fast
brittle flint
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
snow dove
it's 49.99998/min
so you’ll have an issue after 5 years of gameplay
brittle flint
i will wait eight months until i unlock wet concrete
wind spade
I'd just do 83.3334% which is 50.00004/min
brittle flint
yes but perfect numbers
wind spade
are not reachable always
snow dove
after 50,000 minutes to be precise
wind spade
so you’ll have an issue after 5 years of gameplay
no, more like every X minutes the machine will stop for a few seconds
wind spade
aight so what im getting at is our pipes are ridiculously fast
if you count liters then sure. But I'd assume factorio uses m3 🤷♂️
oblique hollow
if you count liters then sure. But I'd assume factorio uses m3 🤷♂️
eh, units
we use the same numbers of units afaik,
factorio does no division by 1000
brittle flint
im gonna use petrolium coke because i am bad at maths
snow dove
no, more like every X minutes the machine will stop for a few seconds
after 50k minutes you’ll have 1 extra oil
assuming you’re feeding 50 oil a minute
wind spade
uh, it's getting crude oil
snow dove
whoops i read that wrong
oblique hollow
im gonna use petrolium coke because i am bad at maths
that stuff is inefficient tho
fuel is better
wind spade
after 50k minutes you’ll have 1 extra oil
and I was talking about the underclocked one, which won't have extra, but will not have enough
oblique hollow
and needs no water
brittle flint
that stuff is inefficient tho
im going to sink it
snow dove
ah i’m just completely failing to read, i need a nap
oblique hollow
im going to sink it
oh
ivory warren
off-topic but for the more dedicated followers - where do I find deep analysis of official videos?
wind spade
factorio does no division by 1000
looking back at this and comparing with real world fluid cars, it seems like factorio's fluid unit is indeed liter (25k liters is relatively normal volume for a fluid car).
wind spade
off-topic but for the more dedicated followers - where do I find deep analysis o...
well I'd assume they would be somewhere very deep
ivory warren
~~well I'd assume they would be somewhere very deep~~
woah man
brittle flint
i will finshe gmaing pc tomorrow
oblique hollow
looking back at this and comparing with real world fluid cars, it seems like fac...
yeah we use ridiculously large amounts
even if they used m3, we still use more units per sec/frame comparatively
factorio effectively uses 2/3s of a mk 1
wind spade
and our machines need like way more than Factorio's, which makes the comparison a bit weird
oblique hollow
but the transfer speed and pipe volume is way different
hm wait.... actually
transfer speed isnt the issue
its pipe volume. thats it
snow dove
spees
barren elm
Not sure what the point of that comparison is
But if you're including decimals, there's decimals in factorio pipes as well
oblique hollow
no the comparison is we transport 12 times more stuff, thus the bigger issues
sullen mulch
guys do any of you know how to calculate train throughput over a distance
wind spade
you need:
- train loop time
- number of cars
- stack size of the item
then use it to a formula on wiki
sullen mulch
oh great
well im yet to make any of the rail network so I'll have to get on that task now
upbeat tide
So, is this wise? Looking to make recycled loops a bit cleaner.
Normally each refinery needs 30 fuel and 30 rubber/plastic. Noticed OC to 166.6667 makes the rato 50/50 and 100 output.
Now the debate if worth the extra power cost and shards to simplify the setups
wind spade
well im yet to make any of the rail network so I'll have to get on that task now
tbh most of it comes down to "build a train path, put one belt into each platform and throw trains on it until they can keep up with production"
sullen mulch
yeah that would be great if the cargo wasn't raw uranium
wind spade
how does that change things?
sullen mulch
I would use droned but I love my trainsbut
snow dove
So, is this wise? Looking to make recycled loops a bit cleaner.
Normally each ...
the ratio is the same no matter what the clock speed is
sullen mulch
well i just don't want to make loads of filters to stop myself from dying when i test it
upbeat tide
It is but easier esp with a 400 fuel pipe
sullen mulch
although actually i guess i could just use containers full of iron ore instead
wind spade
automate filters then 😛
wind spade
well especially if you're lazy, automating stuff will save you from needing to craft them 😛
upbeat tide
already have way too much work to do on this nuclear plant
Been there done it 🙂
sullen mulch
hahaha well look my tickets are getting me enough filters for the time being but i guess it would be cool to have an automated filter factory in the nuclear powerplant
snow dove
spending tickets on stuff you can automate???
sullen mulch
ikr im a madman
median heath
@sullen mulch greeny gave you the variables for the exact math, but if you need rough numbers the average train line people make has a throughput of 1200/min per car.
sullen mulch
ah right, well i reckon i'll give the maths a try because I definitely don't want to deal with a radioactive train causing issues but ill jeep that in mind
median heath
🚙
terse umbra
For my Diluted Packaged Fuel production, i'm starting off with 585 oil/m
Then turning that into 780 Heavy Oil Residue/m with 19.5 Refineries
Then using that 780 HOR/m to turn it into 1560 fuel/m
And according to the wiki, each fuel gen takes 12m^3/m of fuel
so if i divide 1560 by 12 that gives me 130
So does that mean i need 130 generators, or is my calculation off
because it just seems a bit too much
wind spade
looks correct
median heath
600 Oil = 133.3333- Gens on Diluted
So 585 being 130 is not "too much"
terse umbra
damn
median heath
There's a reason you rarely ever see a "small oil build"
terse umbra
that is a lot more than i expected
wind spade
diluted fuel is great
median heath
that is a lot more than i expected
How much did you expect?
terse umbra
maybe 20 lmao
median heath
??????
wind spade
one of the reasons why turbofuel is often skipped directly to nuclear
median heath
HOR is broken as fuck because it INCREASES your oil conversion by a factor of 4/3
Diluted then DOUBLES your HOR amount into Fuel.
And you thought 585 was going to amount to 20?
terse umbra
idk didn't do enough research
just went by your recommendation a few days ago
i just found out about Diluted Packaged Fuel afew days ago
frosty pawn
there's also diluted fuel (no packages, it's made in the blender)
diluted packaged fuel in refinery costs 30mj/item + 10mj/item for packaging the water + 10mj/item for unpackaging the fuel.
diluted fuel costs 45mj/item, so you save 5mj/item.
nice, but the first one can be done in tier 5 and the second one requires tier 7 which is a space elevator delivery apart.
i honestly would rather wait for tier 7 and try to get the blender recipe because building it is quicker and easier and takes less space. each "unit" of fuel gives 750mw in a fuel generator so 5mw difference is nothing you would even notice. which recipe you choose depends on how urgently you need/want fuel and how willing you are to hunt for HDDs.
wind spade
kinda annoyed by you saying it gives MW, as it doesn't, it gives MJ 😛
sonic wasp
I'm making a plastic factory about 1900 or more, using the spire coast oil
median heath
You'll need at least 2 nodes to accomplish that as 1 pure will net you only 1800.
sonic wasp
looking at the other plastic recipes and I can't see a way to use all HOR up without dumping some to petro coke
vapid gorge
looking at the other plastic recipes and I can't see a way to use all HOR up wit...
Diluted fuel?
sonic wasp
well that has its own issue
vapid gorge
like what?
upbeat tide
644 oil? Weird number?
median heath
644 oil? Weird number?
He said "over 1900"
upbeat tide
Ah
fierce cypress
and thats following the 81 rule i assume?
upbeat tide
Kinda weird but ok
median heath
1900 / 81 = 23.4567901-
81 * 24 = 1944
fierce cypress
yup
median heath
I can get closer to 1900 but the ask was "over" so I went with the simplest clean answer.
upbeat tide
I think better question is why 1900
median heath
🤷♂️
sonic wasp
median heath
Imagine not using Tools..
sonic wasp
2,728 units/min of Plastic and 151 units/min of Rubber
median heath
2728 / 81 = 33.67901234567901-
No thank you.
upbeat tide
Might as well make 3.6k and use left over for something else
sonic wasp
I can sink the extra but thats the min I need
fierce cypress
the 81 rule avoids recurring numbers in all machines in all oil setups?
sonic wasp
I thought 1900 plastic was all I could get from spire coast so I went with that number first
median heath
The less clean math is that (2728 + 151) / 3 = 959.6666666666666666 Oil
Which is also just... bleh.
median heath
the 81 rule avoids recurring numbers in all machines in all oil setups?
Recycled Loop
upbeat tide
I mean just srtup two 1800 plastic loops and use your extras elsewhere
median heath
I thought 1900 plastic was all I could get from spire coast so I went with that ...
You can get 1800 from 1 Pure.
So you can get far more than that from the Spire Coast.
sonic wasp
so I was going to try a different recipe instead of oil - plastic and HOR - coke - sink method
median heath
If you enjoy having less product per oil, sure.
Also if you're going to make that much Coke don't sink it.
Put it in Coal Gens and get free MW from it.
upbeat tide
Issue is when you get to that level of plastic/rubber needs a recycled loop is the real only choice
sonic wasp
but the idea I had of oil -plastic and HOR - Diluted fuel - to plastic meant the rubber made for that loop had its own HOR to remove
gonna try the recycled loop and change the 95 refineries I put down
sonic wasp
so the 1800 loop is the best for even numbers of refineries?
median heath
No.
upbeat tide
Its best for oil to end product ratio.
median heath
Recycled Loop is best for maximizing product per oil.
sonic wasp
well I'm seeing the number 81 to get the clean clock speeds
median heath
Yes.
sonic wasp
final output in multiples of 10.125
upbeat tide
Tbh if you want OC the recycled refineries to 166.667%. Will get 100 plastic or rubber out of each instead of 60
median heath
Tbh if you want OC the recycled refineries to 166.667%. Will get 100 plastic or ...
60 * 1.66667 = 100.0002
100.0002 != 100
upbeat tide
Well ingame its what it say soo 🤷♀️
Plus easier to work with 50 fuel and 50 rubber/plas input
median heath
What it say != what it do
Making what it say = what it do is the purpose of the 45-81 rule.
upbeat tide
I get ya
sonic wasp
is there a post that explains the math somwhere
median heath
The math for the 45-81 rule?
median heath
Ouch...
Right in the feels.
What about it is unclear?
Given I wrote it.
@sonic wasp
sonic wasp
where does 1800 or 3.6k come from
median heath
where does 1800 or 3.6k come from
Like how do you turn 600 Oil into 1800 Product?
sonic wasp
1800 divides into 10.125 as a uneven number
median heath
Aware.
fierce cypress
which is why sev is saying to not use it
median heath
People who don't care about imprecision to 600 Oil to 1800 product.
fierce cypress
the only reason 1800 was mentioned was because that was the max you could get out of 1 pure node, and therefore for 1900+ you need at least 2 nodes
median heath
If I am using 1 pure node I will do either 1782 product or at most 1792.125
median heath
So 3330 Oil total.
3330 * 3 = 9990
9990 / 81 = 123.33333
123 * 81 = 9963 product using 3321 oil.
sonic wasp
only need around 3k total output
median heath
If you want to shave it closer:
9983.25 product using 3327.75 oil
ugh
3000 / 81 = 37.037-
37 * 81 = 2997 product using 999 oil
fierce cypress
9989.57812 product using 3329.859373 oil although thats probably cut a bit too close
but tldr any number of product that when divided by 81 gives a non recurring number is fine right @median heath?
median heath
but tldr any number of product that when divided by 81 gives a non recurring num...
When using the Recycled Loop, yes.
sonic wasp
so 3159/39=81 so I'll go with that total
and I'll take a mk3 belt off of rubber in that loop for that rubber I need
idle citrus
glacial hemlock
60 * 1.66667 = 100.0002
100.0002 != 100
round up is good, round down is bad
median heath
round up is good, round down is bad
Imprecision is bad.
fierce cypress
whats the best item to feed into the sink
whats most efficient
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/AWESOME_Sink#Points_generated_per_item
and also see the recipe improvement ratios and farming points tips
cyan kettle
Nah bro when I bought this game I didn't expect to need to do math 😢
fierce cypress
Nah bro when I bought this game I didn't expect to need to do math 😢
i mean you don't need to
cyan kettle
True
cyan kettle
I mostly just started so it's not horrible yet but it's getting there
vapid gorge
I mostly just started so it's not horrible yet but it's getting there
Well if it helps - My method working up through the tiers is to make a factory production line for each basic part that has room to expand to deal with miners getting more ore out and then just linking belts together to form new production lines w/o worrying about math. Just let all the machines and containers fill up over time while you build and explore
mint sedge
I had a personal rule with gaming: If I need a spreadsheet to play I should play something else.
I broke that rule for this game
oblique hollow
ive never used a spreadsheet for a single factory
twin inlet
help
fierce cypress
twin inlet
oh mb
im running 16 fuel gens on 24 fuel p/m, im creating 400 p/m so i need a 17th gen to use the excess fuel right? i don't want any downtime on the refineries so i can't just let is sit as extra, any NASA scientists here know what i should clock my 17th gen to?
fierce cypress
im running 16 fuel gens on 24 fuel p/m, im creating 400 p/m so i need a 17th gen...
you have them overclocked to 24/min?
wind spade
And clocked to 246.2288%?
twin inlet
mines at 246.2289% but it says it requires 24p/m in the chart thingy
oblique hollow
246.2288 is more accurate
twin inlet
ight i will change that, but i still need a percent for the final machine right?
wind spade
8 at the end is better, since it's slightly below 24, not slightly above 24
oblique hollow
but tbh i would just use overflow for the last gen
fierce cypress
the 17th should be clocked to ~145.351781 @twin inlet
twin inlet
thats a number
fierce cypress
yup
twin inlet
yeah the fuel gens seem to be in a bit of a mood
but space is my issue here so i had to
oblique hollow
U7 fixes that thankfully
wind spade
Space is never an issue, map is huge and verticality is a thing
twin inlet
the 17th should be clocked to ~145.351781 <@346481470337974273>
thanks so much haha
oblique hollow
whenever that drops
oblique hollow
are you in a cave or what
twin inlet
kinda
oblique hollow
Caveman 
fierce cypress
thanks so much haha
for future reference this is the formula
where operating rate is the desired percentage of the normal operating rate
twin inlet
also another question, if i was to just not set an overclock percent on the 17th machine and just set it to 250x, it would pull in too much fuel right?
fierce cypress
also another question, if i was to just not set an overclock percent on the 17th...
no, because 100% < 145.3517%
so fuel would back up
wind spade
no, because 100% < 145.3517%
250%
twin inlet
man maths is not my friend, how the heck do i enjoy this game
fierce cypress
but if it was at the 2x clock speed like the others there would be overconsumption and the gens would just cut out for small periods of time every so often because there is an 8 fuel/min undersupply
oblique hollow
just overclock the last one and let it turn off and on
its just a few weeks until U7 drops
then you can set the percentage precisely
fierce cypress
👆 then gen clockspeeds will become linear thank god
twin inlet
if i did that it would pull more fuel than i have right? my setup isn't load ballanced, i rely on everything slowly backfilling
oblique hollow
if i did that it would pull more fuel than i have right? my setup isn't load bal...
it would, but why would that be an issue, nothing backs up
wind spade
you can't load balance fuel gens anyway
twin inlet
but then the gens turn on and off
twin inlet
i feel like im missing something incredibly obvious
oblique hollow
it doesnt matter if it turns off
it will fill and then turn back on
and then back off
and then on again
twin inlet
so what should i do, use the math mr tomato got me or just let it turn on and off
fierce cypress
either should be fine
oblique hollow
i would just let it turn on and off until U7 drops
fierce cypress
it'll have to be redone at U7 either way
upbeat tide
New 1800 plastic factory done, now to prime it and test!
I prime it by manually filling all the residual rubber with max resin and all the recycled loop hoppers with max plastic/rubber as well
broken stream
Cool
random flame
Anyone have any technical info on the logic steps performed by trains at stations? Specifically around 'full load' state? I'm having an issue with trains getting stuck in permanent dock when using it. Seems that having some other items already in the wagon might be messing with it but I'm getting odd results in my testing.
Before any one asks, I've tried various and/or settings and times and those don't seem to be the culprit.
oblique hollow
that logic is currently broken, theres an issue with multiple freight cars being ignored and other weird cas
random flame
that logic is currently broken, theres an issue with multiple freight cars being...
Lame 🙁
oblique hollow
Early Access game in a nutshell
random flame
Thanks for answering I guess. Has CSS aknowledged it at least?
random flame
Yeah, seems it gets reported every couple of months.
I was concerned one of the mods I put on was causing it, but it seems the bug itself is vanilla, though the mod may be causing it to occur more often.
median heath
Personally never seen the use for "full load" state. If someone could enlighten me?
oblique hollow
train don't go BRRRR when train no need to
median heath
?
oblique hollow
"Your train doesn't constantly move when there is no need to due to you needing items in low quantities and thus you can afford longer waiting times"
barren elm
There's no real train logic in satisfactory in the first place though
May as well embrace it and just plan around your trains running on a timer
oblique hollow
made a fuel tower to test bottom feeding....
surprisinglystable
then again, only using half the pipe capacity....
also modded pipe settings
median heath
Bleh, mods.
But when I do fuel towers I tend to sort of do this.
Pump it all the way to the top and then let it trickle down.
oblique hollow
except its not that,
signal nimbus
Just being pushed up, seems like.
median heath
except its not that,
I know, I can see the differences.
oblique hollow
Just being pushed up, seems like.
ye
so far, perfectly stable
which makes me happe, now i gotta turn off the pipe mod and see what happens xd
signal nimbus
Lot simpler than my last setup, I'll give it that.
oblique hollow
though im nowhere near capacity
it shouldn't break......
like this should work perfectly fine anywhere
signal nimbus
I hear the qualifiers.
oblique hollow
hmm.... seems to work so far
vapid gorge
I hear the qualifiers.
The 'nowhere near capacity' thing 😛 . Also I find more problem in unlooped systems if the machines are pulling in larger volumes per minute. Fuel gens have a comparitively low take
upbeat tide
attempting to VIP junction.
median heath
Lack of pump make cause issues.
median heath
Does the bottom pipe, which is the recycled fluid, have a pump prior to the VIP junction?
upbeat tide
just a valve
vapid gorge
just a valve
yeah, valve might cause problems I'd swap it for a pump
oblique hollow
you NEED pumps for the VIP
median heath
☝️
upbeat tide
fixing
wind spade
iirc you need them before the junction, not after
median heath
That is before.
Flow direction is towards us.
upbeat tide
That is before
wind spade
then it's VOP? 🤔
median heath
No.
Recycled flows towards us.
Fresh comes in from the left.
You're looking at the back of the refineries.
upbeat tide
The mk1 pumps are just not in frame
The three stack is the sloppy solution. The 4 stack behind is the scrap
wind spade
Recycled flows towards us.
Fresh comes in from the left.
You're looking at the b...
ah then it's not just "flow towards us". Understood
wooden notch
hey so i'm making supercomputers and i noticed high-speed connecters and AI limiters are right next to each other. is it a good idea to use one drone to bring it to a place or should i use a train?
upbeat tide
I use neither. Would build most components very close together or in same factory complex.
wooden notch
yeah but oil and quick wire aren't
fierce cypress
hey so i'm making supercomputers and i noticed high-speed connecters and AI limi...
both are valid methods of transport
trains are harder to setup since they require rail and signal infrastructure but once a network is established it can be re-used and expanded easily, trains also use electricity as fuel which can be useful since it is not a material item, and trains also are easier to transport larger amounts of items.
drones are quick to setup as the only infrastructure you need is two drone ports, however they consume batteries as fuel which can be a pain to set up and distribute, they also can't carry as much but are set up to be a quicker and simpler alternative
wooden notch
i was more saying same 1 drone or train
i don't wanna use 2 drones cause of batteries and it's tedious
upbeat tide
If your gonna move stuff choose the lesser quantity. Like I wouldn't train quickwire due to volume
vapid gorge
i don't wanna use 2 drones cause of batteries and it's tedious
You might save yourself batteries if you set hte drones to only fetch more items when there's room to drop them off?
fierce cypress
thoughts on this factory plan?
vapid gorge
Seems fine? W/o context of location and logistics though not much I can comment on.
fierce cypress
Seems fine? W/o context of location and logistics though not much I can comment ...
location is yet to be decided, but i'm going to use the central nitrogen well, so somewhere around there
alu will be trained in
and HMF and rubber either train or drone, most likely train
vapid gorge
Well HMF can be made entirely with iron coal/coke - so you could probably move the hmf and rubber from the same location. With that in mind though if you use Electrode scrap then you could probably combine the oil production in one spot if you place it in a good spot
oh and limestone
fierce cypress
ive already got HMFs, rubber and alu ingots produced at other locations
vapid gorge
Ah fair.
I suppose you could always consider droning in the nitrogen and that would give you some flexibility on location?
fierce cypress
but im not too limited on location since the area around the well has everything i really need - nitogen, water and copper, and with a mk3 miner i could get the 385 copper/min out of that south east normal node
vapid gorge
Ah yeah, that's where I've got the foundations for world bauxite processing
fierce cypress
only problem being i don't have mk3's unlocked yet thats what this factory is for
vapid gorge
oooohhh right. WELL. How many coupons do you have? I like either makign a super temp bauxite factory for unlocking mk3 ect or I buy the parts from the awesomeshop and unlock
Like aboslutely slap dash alum factory that I throw with existing production to smake a few things together and really get on with things
fierce cypress
oooohhh right. WELL. How many coupons do you have? I like either makign a super...
buying would be possible, i've got a few hundred coupons although i do find it kind of cheaty
vapid gorge
buying would be possible, i've got a few hundred coupons although i do find it k...
I mean that's an entirely personal choice can't say youre right or wrong in deciding to use a game mechanic
fierce cypress
but other than that the only other thing i wasn't sure about was whether or not i should make heatsinks, since they're only used for other processing not for the build gun
vapid gorge
Though I'd either consider making a temp factory or build to be upgradable to handle mk5 belts and mk3 miners to save time in the future. But I liek reducing rebuild and retrofiting
vapid gorge
but other than that the only other thing i wasn't sure about was whether or not ...
Hmmm maybe make the heat sinks in a dedicated factory somewhere and ship it in? That way you don't have to trash it?
Just throwing ideas at the wall here - depends entirely how you like building and planning
fierce cypress
and the other process that they're used for are cooling systems (made at this factory), plut rods - which would be a problem unless i use the pressure cube alt, and finally an RCU alt which i don't think i'll use
vapid gorge
Maximizing plut rods CHEWS through alum yeah. Prob better ways to get points. Unless you want plutonium waste. Cause that's how you get plutonium waste 😛
vapid gorge
and the other process that they're used for are cooling systems (made at this fa...
have you seen the alt for the Fused Frame yet?
fierce cypress
not planning on maximising plut rods but will be necessary for a waste free nuke setup
vapid gorge
not planning on maximising plut rods <:jacelul:489777945909526528> but will be n...
base plut recipes are good for that
fierce cypress
have you seen the alt for the Fused Frame yet?
yea, and decided on the default, though its not too late to change
fierce cypress
base plut recipes are good for that
which means ill need to get heatsinks from somewhere, im thinking i can work that out later though and not produce them here since i think that will be easier
vapid gorge
which means ill need to get heatsinks from somewhere, im thinking i can work tha...
Yeah they made uranium waste recycling essentially need every resource on the map.
I think the only place to do waste recycling all locally is the east swamp?
fierce cypress
i don't usually end up doing most things locally, actually maybe i do i guess it depends on the factory - i made my starter factory locally, oil locally (duh) and alu ingots locally
vapid gorge
i don't usually end up doing most things locally, actually maybe i do <:simon_sm...
Depends how you like doing things? Non locally means you're doing a lot of logistics planning. Locally means a lot of recipe and location planning. And you mix the levels of each
if you're interested I can pass along my resource pm by zone spread sheet once I revamp it
fierce cypress
Depends how you like doing things? Non locally means you're doing a lot of logis...
fair enough, i usually just do things that make logical sense for me, sometimes that means shipping in something else because it would take too much effort to produce on site, sometimes it means carefully picking a location so that i can use every node in the area
fierce cypress
if you're interested I can pass along my resource pm by zone spread sheet once I...
certainly sounds interesting could be cool to have a look at
vapid gorge
everyone's brains work diff! 😄
I spent 2 weeks making that sheet, then plotting 8 major hubs based on resources needed tweaking alts ect. I'm very proud my my max uranium rod factory that is almost entirely local production
long crow
Liquid fuel question:
I have 18 blenders making 800 turbo fuel/min powering 88 fuel generators that are overclocked. I have the generators set up in 8 vertical rows that are 11 long.
I'm going to split the blender outputs into two mk2 pipes, and pump the fuel up to the top left and right corners of the generators which will then flow down to each of the 8 lower levels, and then over to half of the generators in each row.
If I connect each row across horizontally, will that still work?
upbeat tide
everyone's brains work diff! 😄
I spent 2 weeks making that sheet, then plotti...
Mine isnt local exactly, but maybe regional.
Like my uranium cells and fuel rods are in the swamp
Bescons, crystal occilators and electromag fuel rods in the titan forest to the west of the swamp and supporting oil from blue crater
median heath
So many parts of that question hurt me...
vapid gorge
Mine isnt local exactly, but maybe regional.
Like my uranium cells and fuel ro...
teh variety of ways to do things is a thing i love about this game
vapid gorge
Liquid fuel question:
I have 18 blenders making 800 turbo fuel/min powering 88 ...
Are they being fed vertically or horizontally? bit confusing
upbeat tide
I setup shop in the hills north of the blue crater for aluminum and it sortof turned into a main hub
vapid gorge
You need alum for so much it makes sense
long crow
Are they being fed vertically or horizontally? bit confusing
Sorry if I explained it poorly, I'm pumping supply from the bottom to the top vertically, that will then flow vertically down to each row then horizontally to supply each generator.
vapid gorge
Sorry if I explained it poorly, I'm pumping supply from the bottom to the top ve...
right ok so - it could, technically work I think
Possible things to think about
Merging multiple floors of fluid manifolds can create a lot of issues with sloshing and back flow.
While this could work smoothly I would personally dedicate 2 or 3 blenders to a particular floor of generators and make a seperate manifold for each level
This will reduce sloshing and make trouble shooting and find flaws in the system much easier
My 2 cents
Fluids are finicky enough that my personal policy is make systems feed from Point A to Point B with no interactions with other systems whenever possible
upbeat tide
I would actually break it down. Instead of one or 2 main out pipes split it even more but from the refineries them selves
Like have 200 or so in each set
long crow
right ok so - it could, technically work I think
Possible things to think abou...
So 3 blenders to make 100 fuel to supply each row of 8 generators in their own pipe network would probably work best if I understand
upbeat tide
So 3 blenders to make 100 fuel to supply each row of 8 generators in their own p...
Exactly. You said turbo fuel right
long crow
Exactly. You said turbo fuel right
yes turbo fuel
long crow
Exactly. You said turbo fuel right
using the turbo blend fuel alt recipe if its important
vapid gorge
So 3 blenders to make 100 fuel to supply each row of 8 generators in their own p...
... 'work best' is subjective - I would say it's the easiest to keep an eye on on and trouble shoot issues and best way to create stability
after a lot of pipe work I segregate every manifold. Always leave space for jesus in between them
upbeat tide
Smaller segments even in a larger system usually is the best way to do it. Sortof modularity in a way
vapid gorge
I only ever got this to work at about 93% efficiency xD learn from my mistakes
long crow
I have the turbo fuel production all set up, and I feel like I organized everything really well for my first attempt at it. Just working on the generator side of it now
vapid gorge
I have the turbo fuel production all set up, and I feel like I organized everyth...
I'd be careful on shard use for generators unless you're using a save editor to spawn more in. You're kinda locking those shards away forever until you build a new power structure
upbeat tide
This doesnt exist anymore but my OLD turbo fuel base
Now replaced with nuclear in same location
New
long crow
I'd be careful on shard use for generators unless you're using a save editor to ...
I dont really use shards that much, but where would I get a save editor from? I've only had the game for 2 months and I'm still on my first run, not super familiar with mods and such for this game yet
frigid idol
I dont really use shards that much, but where would I get a save editor from? I...
theres a save editor on here https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map. on the right side of your screen there will be a button to upload a save to the editor. its super simple. i use it for power shards since theyre too limited. you can add them straight to your inventory with this
long crow
theres a save editor on here https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-...
oh ive used that before, I didnt know you could just add shards like that, thanks!
vapid gorge
I dont really use shards that much, but where would I get a save editor from? I...
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you said you had over clocked your generators
vapid gorge
I dont really use shards that much, but where would I get a save editor from? I...
and there's a website that you can edit your saves in. Satisfactorycalculator.com . Though I would avoid using it for the first run or two if you like exploring and being surprised as it essentially spoils the whole map and location of everything for you
vapid gorge
how many coal generators can you run off one node?
look at your miner and see how many coal per minute it produces, how much your belt can handle, and calculate how many generators you need to burn it
potent jewel
120 miner / 120 belt / 15 coal permin with no OC - so almost 8 generators per?
potent jewel
thanks
fierce cypress
120 miner / 120 belt / 15 coal permin with no OC - so almost 8 generators per?
why only almost 8?
wheat tundra
Mk2 miner, with non OC generators means 16 generators
Which is a pain in the butt with only Mk1 pipes
I think I needed 3 pipes
And it doesn't come out even I think
Note that you can set up miners supplied by pipes and belts in the middle, for two rows of 8
It helps if you pick up floor holes for pipes from awesome sink, and try to run pipes as much under the floor as possible
Which makes it easier to run your belts
wind spade
Which is a pain in the butt with only Mk1 pipes
Build at water and it's harly an issue
wind spade
It helps if you pick up floor holes for pipes from awesome sink, and try to run ...
Feeding from above ias usually more reliable
wheat tundra
I don't have problems feeding from below. But I have read that opinion a number of times
My coal generators seemed to have ran at 100%
I dislike feeding from above, I admit
I sometimes do it, but I don't like it. But I don't do it for coal generators
barren elm
Can we take a sec to appreciate that the teaser box thing looks suspiciously like a blueprint bandbox
Even comes with 8m spaced lights
oblique hollow
wth is a blueprint bandbox
wind spade
if you have a band and the band owns a box and you make a blueprint of that box, you have a blueprint bandbox
oblique hollow
slueprint sandsox
ionic thunder
Hi there ! I've been playing with trains for a bit of time now, and I have a question that remains unanswered : do we have any insight on the pathfinding method of trains ?
The more practical problem I have is : if there's a short path with a lot of congestion that results in a longer travel time than a long path with little congestion, which path will my train choose ?
vapid gorge
The more practical problem I have is : if there's a short path with a lot of con...
they will always choose the shortest path
doesn't matter if it's blocked
vapid gorge
that's no good news
Well it mostly means you have to have fairly strict logic paths for trains and provide space before stations dedicating as wait space if you ahve more than one train delivering/picking up at a particular station
Hence why a lot of people do 1 train per station
vapid gorge
thanks for the answer anyway !
oh and it's why stations off to the side of main rail is useful (though station rail is calculated to be longer than it's actual length for the purposes of making it easier for trains to avoid passing through stations they don't use
barren elm
Yeah it's just a very basic distance calculation with some bonus "fake distance" added if there's a station on a given piece of track
Reason for that being so that trains prefer to use track segments without stations
ionic thunder
yeah I was already planning on having buffers at my train stations, but the reason I was asking is I'm building a refinery factory, and I have rails on multiple levels that are interconnected. Hence I wondered whether trains could choose the correct level depending on traffic
vapid gorge
Well they'll choose the right level that their station is on?
median heath
If you want them to split levels you need to have stations on each level and specifically tell them to go there.
ionic thunder
If you want them to split levels you need to have stations on each level and spe...
oooo yeah that perfectly solves my issue ! I'll simply put one station per level at the entrance of the factory
median heath
👍
broken stream
do you think you can use algebra for satisfactory????
vapid gorge
... in what way?
like basic algebra is just looking at addition and subtraction in different ways
vapid gorge
idk for multiple inputs
vapid gorge
idk for multiple inputs
but if you're doing multiple inputs you can jsut go something like if you have 200 parts and each machine uses 30 go 200/30 right?
broken stream
i had a problem with a factory that took the some part in two machines. but i had only had that much of that part. i didn't know how to split it.
vapid gorge
can you say that more clearly pls?
vapid gorge
i had a problem with a factory that took the some part in two machines. but i ha...
and manifolds are the easiest way to 'split' things https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold in general
broken stream
English is not my first languid
vapid gorge
thats ok, try that web page.
Your first language doesn't happen to be french is it?
vapid gorge
worth a shot, it's my first language
broken stream
i dont know French
cinder silo
Most people won't judge dyslexia tbh, hell my spelling is terrible and english is my first language 🙂
I'll scroll up and see if I can be of assistance.
vapid gorge
and I'm dyslexic
as well as that web page I linked to yo uthis video is helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwguwhizdlE
broken stream
ty
broken stream
I'll scroll up and see if I can be of assistance.
ok
cinder silo
If moving radioactive items , you'll be better served with load balancers as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5d4foufHGE&list=PLQo-FPWWaZE-jn38NUxfxh5S2VyJNjnO3 , it is an entire playlist guide of different numbers of outputs.
I've used this playlist as my go-to for specific applications 🙂
broken stream
i have 700 in satisfactory so i can do input and output but ty
i was asking if i could use algebra in satisfactory
X and all that
wind spade
1:2 splitter tutorial? 🤔
broken stream
wtf is that
cinder silo
1:2 splitter tutorial? 🤔
It's a playlist, not just one.
wind spade
isn't that just "build a splitter"?
why would you need a video tutorial to 1:2 split lol
cinder silo
The 1-5 I used as a floor plan for my 1-100.
cinder silo
Making mistakes or missing something is not being dumb.
frosty owl
why would you need a video tutorial to 1:2 split lol
Thank you, I felt like I was gonna ask the obvious
cinder silo
Yeah trying to ignore the fact I said at the start it was a damned playlist is just meh.
wind spade
no matter if it's a playlist or not... there's still a video with 1:2 splitter
cinder silo
Not my fault or problem 🤷♂️
wind spade
well I'm not saying it is. I'm just asking why do we need a video for 1:2 splitter 🤷♂️
oblique hollow
@wicked tinsel not the best but definitely workable
might be possible to stack vertically tho
cinder silo
well I'm not saying it is. I'm just asking why do we need a video for 1:2 splitt...
For that, best bet is to ask the creator, I merely saved the link to the start of the playlist.
wind spade
I didn't ask you tho 🤷♂️ I was just writing here
cinder silo
Though I have encountered some people who probably need that 1-2 guide 🤦♂️ because some folks have been that dense.
oblique hollow
possibly
wicked tinsel
now
oblique hollow
unless you wanna fit 2 manus in one blueprint
wicked tinsel
you can put two of those with little shift
wicked tinsel
those are mirrored, but i guess you can make two blueprints
oblique hollow
just gotta take this design and make it split-able
oblique hollow
those are mirrored, but i guess you can make two blueprints
its a bit more work but really, switching out blueprints isnt that much of a turnoff, personally
and its easy too
3 refineries fit too
wicked tinsel
yeah
the problem is, they dont fit into double manifold, and neither should assemblers
so you can only really build one side and then need to connect other side manually or give up on it
what im curious tho
upbeat tide
Attempting to make tiny blueprints?
wicked tinsel
is the blueprint maker surface snappable or not
from video it looked unsnappable, but shall see in practice
wicked tinsel
gonna be pain if there is no snapping 😄
oblique hollow
might be toggle-able
wicked tinsel
each blueprint is offset by 10 cm
oblique hollow
ok so for blenders and manufacturers, its gonna be a stack design if you wanna fit 2 into one blueprint
else you gotta make a modular design for one
wicked tinsel
i guess its ok
barren elm
Why would you bother doing that though? You could just place the blueprint twice
wicked tinsel
btw, i hate when refineries are built like this due to their awful clipping :<
upbeat tide
Eh takong a look not a total fan. Knew would be restrictive but doesnt really work with my design philosophy
Unless they can be snapped together modularially
barren elm
Just because the bounding box is 32x32x32 doesn't mean all your designs need to be 32x32x32
oblique hollow
on the bright side: this fits? and can be connected
wicked tinsel
knowing coding quality of this game, i fully expect there will be no validation in the blueprint file loader and it will just allow bigger blueprints if file is manually edited 😄
oblique hollow
btw, i hate when refineries are built like this due to their awful clipping :<
then its 2 refineries per blueprint
oblique hollow
knowing coding quality of this game, i fully expect there will be no validation ...
depending on if people figure out how to edit bigger ones... possibly
magic island
for assembler manifolds, it's gonna be far more valuable to blueprint the input side than the output side. I would just just BP a single row of assemblers so I could work that part in
barren elm
Tbh I hope they increase the size of it, 32^3 is so restrictive that you can't even get a double manifold going without practically choking splitters down the constructors
oblique hollow
in brighter news: it makes foundation platform building easier
just click 4 x 4 platform
barren elm
I wonder if it allows snapping to world grid
arctic willow
and then just a mirrored design
i hope there's a way to mirror manifolds for this
oblique hollow
unlikely, would mean mirroring buildings
arctic willow
true
oblique hollow
you likely have to make "left" and "right" designs
arctic willow
fine for symmetrics but offset buildings (like foundries) would be an ass
oblique hollow
so halves
wicked tinsel
depends how snapping and repeating will work with those
oblique hollow
shouldnt it all snap fine?
wicked tinsel
not really
oblique hollow
they do have grid alignment on foundations
wintry aurora
We'll find out in experimental next week.
oblique hollow
you likely need a 4 x 4 platform that fits it
wicked tinsel
like if you point on side of existing foundation with that blueprint
maybe there will be some way to mark something as reference point
that would be the easiest solution
like you mark one foundation as reference and then when building blueprint, it behaves as if you were building that foundation (and then spawns rest of blueprint once clicked)
wintry aurora
Should be able to just rotate it, and yea, all questions that will be figured out in experimental.
oblique hollow
and once again: if its not immediately as expected, QA site exists
barren elm
I kinda doubt it's smart enough to know how to snap foundations
oblique hollow
this is proof they read feedback on there
barren elm
Sounds like coding hell
arctic willow
from the looks of the video it sort of is and sort of isn't
wicked tinsel
the video has no snapping at all
wicked tinsel
it snaps to the guideline
arctic willow
with the buildings you see the 1m snapping as he moves them along the foundations
and the 4x4 foundation grids snap to each other as well
arctic willow
where a 4x4 foundation block snaps to a 2x2 (say) foundation setup remains to be seen
wicked tinsel
https://youtu.be/9KBQyjy-a6g?t=338 this part is weird, it seem like mergers/splitters dont respect the snapping
but buildings earlier do, maybe bug
either way, i really like this, will be really useful, particularly for decorations/architecture
repeating stuff is super pain when building good looking stuff
barren elm
Oh you meant placing on the pad itself
wintry aurora
either way, i really like this, will be really useful, particularly for decorati...
That's what I was thinking too, though Cobalt said that most of his stuff are on a scale too big to use blueprints for.
magic island
i did notice the mergers/splitters were acting like they were placed on bare ground, instead of how they would act on a foundation
barren elm
Yeah I 100% guarantee someone will make a 3rd party tool to edit the values of blueprint data to get them all perfect
Just like SCIM lets you change the positions of stuff in your save files
wicked tinsel
yeah
i expect the first tool community will make is one that makes blueprints from existing builds
arctic willow
second (after the one that breaks the size limit)
barren elm
I do hope there's no size checking
I don't expect to blueprint entire factories, but that's so smol you can barely blueprint constructor manifolds
arctic willow
problem is how big do you go
wind spade
I find it a reasonable compromise between "blueprint entire factory and take the fun out of the game" and "no blueprints" 🤷♂️
wicked tinsel
i think 6x6 should be able to fit the two row refinery build 🤔
i guess the two row refinery blueprint is what i would consider "reasonable" size
especially since those are super pain to build without clipping
and pipes love to bug when building in constrained space
magic island
all I would ever want blueprints for are the repetitive tasks. I still want to fully design factories myself and integrate them into the space
but I like that whenever I find myself doing the same clicks over and over, I can take it to the Cube
barren elm
I think an extra 1 single foundation size would make a world of difference
But yeah it's better than nothing
wicked tinsel
yeah, its better than nothing
barren elm
They said they wanted to figure out a solution for if your blueprint has 1 minor error
barren elm
I really hope that's an undo button lol
wicked tinsel
factorio had unto button for years now
its really shame there isnt one here
especially for deconstruction
barren elm
Factorio knows people are really just here for interactive spreadsheets
magic island
I would rather retain the ability to alter/fix things within the blueprint after placing, than have it be all-or-nothing where I can only delete the whole thing
and my understanding is that it's currently the former
barren elm
I think "minor error" here was like, building it slightly off from where you intended
Where there's no error in the blueprint itself, but you'd still have to deconstruct it all to get the position right
wicked tinsel
i really would like to blueprint this sort of construction, i made thousands of those
and they are like worst thing to build due to how game handles splitter building
but this is too big for that blueprint planner
oblique hollow
i really would like to blueprint this sort of construction, i made thousands of ...
wouldn't one half of this work too?
if you could turn it
hm wait...
barren elm
Not really? Unless there's mirroring, all your splitters/mergers would be the wrong way
wicked tinsel
^
also, you still need to build all the lifts/ belts
since they dont auto connect
barren elm
Yeah the more I think about it, the more I think 5x5 would be just perfect
wicked tinsel
btw, since im here, im going to do some small self promotion https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/6329fb4bca608e080351f150 :x
pls upvote
magic island
if you can BP the floating splitters and main belts in place, and then BP the assemblers separately, the lifts should be trivial if you've lined it all up right
median heath
i really would like to blueprint this sort of construction, i made thousands of ...
The non-painful way to do that:
wicked tinsel
yeah, that only works if you keep your staff flowing 😄
median heath
Why would items stop flowing?
wicked tinsel
and you probably cant build that either, since that probably wouldnt fit anyway
barren elm
Yeah you don't need to keep stuff flowing, just clip all the belts through each other
frosty owl
i think 6x6 should be able to fit the two row refinery build 🤔
6x6 could fit a Nuclear Power Generator 
wicked tinsel
for record
this is how assemblers look like on 4x4 surface
even with Sevrahn's way, there is not enough space for output
you know what else doesnt fit into 4x4 surface? train intersections
and i sure as heck would love to blueprint those
barren elm
That feels like SCIM blueprint territory tbh
wicked tinsel
ffs :<
frosty owl
Refineries could definetly use more than a 4x4 for nice blueprinting of them
median heath
this is how assemblers look like on 4x4 surface
My hatred for blueprints aside:
I'd be fine with this because I don't always know which way I want the belting to go.
So just dropping the buildings without the belts would be my primary method given if you want to change belts you have to delete them all anyway.
barren elm
How does one even hate on blueprinting
median heath
How does one even hate on blueprinting
Listen to Fucktorio people bitch about it for 4 years...
The hatred grows over time.
wicked tinsel
i had been playing this game for years, the worst part is placing rows of buildins and then making sure the spliters, belts, pipes & lifts are properly connected
it never works properly
frosty owl
Scoffs 
wicked tinsel
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/61e228eb831c852052368c17 i have reported this before coz thats how annoying it is
oblique hollow
Refineries could definetly use more than a 4x4 for nice blueprinting of them
you can fit 2 refineries in easily
just not facing each other
but connecting one half to a pre existing manifold line is a lot easier than building it all by hand
frosty owl
you can fit 2 refineries in easily
2 refineries and...?
wicked tinsel
well, they dont really work, coz those spikes are everywhere
oblique hollow
2 refineries *and*...?
and piping + belting
wicked tinsel
hadnt played U6 at all coz of how bad it is
magic island
i guess the main thing you can do with refineries is pre-attach the junctions/merger/splitter on each side. then you can easily tile and connect
wicked tinsel
there is no way to fix it either
i think i will start those blueprints by making bunch of building+splitter+merger combos
median heath
@oblique hollow random: Does a train station fit on the blueprint platform?
barren elm
It'll make a lot of pointless busywork like roads and rail pillars much easier at least
wicked tinsel
U5 station would, U6 station is bugged so probably not?
barren elm
No train stations are 5x2x5
wicked tinsel
iirc
median heath
Blueprint for Truck Stops 😉
oblique hollow
<@597386533691064342> random: Does a train station fit on the blueprint platform...
nope
wicked tinsel
there would be no point anyway, even if it would fit
frosty owl
I wish I could blueprint a assembler+manufacturer combo instead of a single manufacturer
oblique hollow
2 refineries *and*...?
oblique hollow
I wish I could blueprint a assembler+manufacturer combo instead of a single manu...
stack it
4x4x4 fits 2 manus stacked on top of each other + floor inbetween
plus belting
barren elm
You just know that code wise these are all going to only care that a building's centrepoint is within the 32x32x32 grid
frosty owl
4x4x4 fits 2 manus stacked on top of each other + floor inbetween
I know. Not what I meant
barren elm
Hell with any luck it won't even check for that
wicked tinsel
i doubt loaded blueprints will do any checking, its way beyond what this game usually delivers
oblique hollow
and its also kinda the philosphy as always
"if you really wanna do it, sure, go ahead"
wanna take a dump on performance? yeah, load that 50x50x50 blueprint
heck i'd be surprised if the game didnt just crash from large blueprints and that being the limiter on their size
"nope, too big, system doesnt support it"
probably more an entity counter limit
median heath
With the way Snutt described them I believe the intention is not geared towards T5+ buildings.
Like the model is for building dozens of the single-input/output builds (Constructors/Smelters)
wicked tinsel
btw.... how are your vehicles themself holding up?
the other prolbme is, my save isnt very big but has absolutely abysmal performance nowadys, so its no longer really playable
i had sent save to Ben to check it, but it kinda went nowhere
barren elm
Try blueprinting your whole factory and throwing it into a fresh save file
frosty owl
the other prolbme is, my save isnt very big but has absolutely abysmal performan...
High sign density, by chance?
oblique hollow
the other prolbme is, my save isnt very big but has absolutely abysmal performan...
...i assume from vehicles? xd
frosty owl
Try blueprinting your whole factory and throwing it into a fresh save file
But that's bigger than 4x4
wicked tinsel
no clue from what, i would need Ben or someone other to tell me
probably from architecture, there is a lot of pillars making structures, but eh
its nowhere near the way that should cause such performance drop
oblique hollow
from what i heard, Ben's latest work improved belt performance by 30%
or rather, will improve
frosty owl
Architecture should just impact RAM usage. You're not out of that, right?
oblique hollow
and some entity optimization
wicked tinsel
ofc not
frosty owl
Why do you seem to assume I should know how much RAM your savefile needs to run?
wicked tinsel
game itself allocates 8gb ram when running
frosty owl
As far as I know, the game can easily demand >10 GB or RAM with savefile bigger than ~5 MB
median heath
@frosty owl about the 5x5 thing:
I wonder if they intentionally chose 4x4 because they know what people can do in 5x5 and that was the intention of they don't want the feature to be able to do that much.
frosty owl
I guess I should've picked up the challenge so that I could've shown why they should've made it 5x5 for starters 
wicked tinsel
its not completely unplayable, it runs at like 30-40 fps when in multiplayer
wicked tinsel
50-60
oblique hollow
oh so with another player its worse
wicked tinsel
tho the whole combo of U6 changes, that delay, pile of bugs that keep showing up somewhat soured the experience
frosty owl
50-60 is unplayable?
wicked tinsel
the problem is, its not 30-40 fps constantly
there is some shit going on in render thread, so it randomly drops a lot
and that is annoying af
oblique hollow
..lights?
wicked tinsel
like you rotate the camera and it freezes
might be lights, but im not too sure about it
oblique hollow
check your lights setting
wicked tinsel
we dont have too many lights, also they have pathetic range anway
wicked tinsel
:
oblique hollow
also, check particle effects
wicked tinsel
might be ultra 😄
frosty owl
Step 1 of getting better FPS: drop video settings
oblique hollow
changes nothing looks-wise and runs worse
wicked tinsel
the thing is, its slow that way no matter where i am
frosty owl
Step 2: pray the difference is noticeable
wicked tinsel
probably the factory itself is what lags
oblique hollow
is it a mega factory or what
wicked tinsel
we did some reserach on that coz for my friend its even worse
not really mega
he doesnt play on ultra lights 😄
oblique hollow
also check the VFX setting please
theres no notable difference (from what i could tell) visually between high and ultra
but ultra also performs a bit worse
wicked tinsel
i will try it later
there is also yet another bug with railroad i see
some train crashed, which should not be possible without bugs
ehh, maybe it will get better one day
frosty owl
probably the factory itself is what lags
I'm inclined to think a lot of signs in one place can cause weird (possibly similar) performance issues, even when far away.
Maybe something about how much info-per-pixel there can be when having a lot of them, with all their individual colours, texts, animations, reflections...
As a sidenote, imo signs are still in an early-mid stage, optimization is to be expected
oblique hollow
so far the probability for all that is yes%
every issue ive heard or seen, at some point, is resolved
just not at the same time
and i think once content addition is done is when a lot more polish is done
wicked tinsel
had they fixed the lift off bug? 😅
oblique hollow
the what
wicked tinsel
if you are using the flying thingy (hoverpack?), it tends to get stuck in going up form
some combination of flying & opening menus cause it
frosty owl
I think they fixed the bug with custom colored lifts loading black, recently.
Not sure if it wasn't just my extreme lag playing tricks
oblique hollow
hold any key and open some menu > key gets stuck
wicked tinsel
ah that yeah, seen that before
there is also some obscure bug where parts of factory had cursed zones that refused to work with multiplayer
i never got down to what the heck causes that
there are zones where clients cant build belts/lifts
oblique hollow
heard of that before, but if its cryptic to us is cryptic to the devs too
frosty owl
As someone who colored all of their beltwork and all with custom, that bug annoyed me a bit
wicked tinsel
its 100% reproducible
oblique hollow
how
wicked tinsel
there is just zone in my factory where clients cant build stuff, it just doesnt work
oblique hollow
i never got down to what the heck causes that
wicked tinsel
server guy needs to go there and build from his pov
oblique hollow
if you cant find out the cause how is it reproducible
wicked tinsel
there are few such zones, but its 100% reproducible in them
but no clue what caused the zone to be created
oblique hollow
in those zones, but how are those zones made
like... if you heard "yo in mp sometimes some zones become cursed"
and you are there just "..... how the hell did that zone appear"
I'd have no clue as a dev what to do there tbh
wicked tinsel
load the save, go to the cursed zone, check wtf is happening there?
then figure out how it could had gotten into bad state
there is probably too many of something and it bugs on some artificial limit? dunno
oblique hollow
well... can the save be loaded by others and does it exist in SP?
wicked tinsel
it doesnt exist in SP, its purely multiplayer bug, it only happens for client
there is probably some overflow on network layer and it refuses to sync stuff
oblique hollow
so now the chance that, if i load the save, tell some other dude in my office "yo play with me" and i do not run across it, then like....
non the wiser
wicked tinsel
well, sure, it can always fail to reproduce for someone else
oblique hollow
then you need a lot more test cases but you can't know how long it would take to encounter
wicked tinsel
but you know, ultimately, pile of such minor/medium issues adds up mentally
to the point where we were like "meh, its unplayable, fuck it" and hdnt really played it since little before U6
oblique hollow
i know, but nailing this stuff down is also not easy
it took a lot of testing for US to find that dumb fluid loading bug
and then when we nailed it down did it finally get fixed
but that took multiple hours of tests
i think such multiplayer replication bugs will get pushed to the end of 1.0
frosty owl
and then when we nailed it down did it finally get fixed
Without even telling us, mind you 
oblique hollow
as those are, frankly, among the harder parts to test
personally i would also push those back as long as possible
because "i got other issues i can more easily find and fix"
frosty owl
Do you think we could increase the chances of them fixing the throughput issues if we get more data on it? 
oblique hollow
i mean its all pretty solid now
junctions and mk 2 backflow into junction
and mk 2 wanting to flow when full
frosty owl
Yeah, we could just crunch more precise numbers and make sure wether welded belts are immune to loss or not
oblique hollow
a pure mk 2 pipe with no junctions has like... no isues moving 600/min
oh belts
eh, applies to both
frosty owl
Yeah, though I only test belts the logic could be extended to pipes somehow, depending on coding similarities
oblique hollow
from what i can tell theres 0 similarity
wind spade
inb4 Sev comes with "don't think of pipes in terms of belts"
median heath
Yeah, though I only test belts the logic could be extended to pipes somehow, dep...
Don't think about pipes in terms of belts.
oblique hollow
just that outside the behaviour is somehwhat similar
wind spade
YES
median heath
@wind spade 👋
wicked tinsel
i doubt pipes and belts share any code
oblique hollow
they are coded entirely differently
wicked tinsel
the problems with them are probably two different bugs
oblique hollow
ive been into modding and learned some more about pipes
the true inner flow math is still a mystery, but the outer layers are clearer to me now
wicked tinsel
belts are also somehow tied to FPS on server/single player
oblique hollow
how wouldn't they be