math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

He posted a pic of ore needed and how to merge/split

[median heath]

Fair. But if he hasn't realized the 501 bottleneck yet, he's going to soon enough.

Also he seems to be confusing what decimals the game actually handles vs. ones it in no way acknowledges.

[vapid gorge]

I suspect just not experienced with % and fractions

[median heath]

Eh

It seems more like he thinks the game cares about per/min

[gloomy palm]

does anyone have a neat sheet which contains all the values of the alt and vanilla recipes?

inputs and outputs

[deft lichen]

you can query the recipe database on the wiki

[gloomy palm]

ah

good idea 🤔

[deft lichen]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:CargoQuery?tables=crafting_recipes%2C+&fields=crafting_recipes.craftedIn%2C+crafting_recipes.craftingTime%2C+crafting_recipes.product%2C+crafting_recipes.productCount%2C+crafting_recipes.product2%2C+crafting_recipes.productCount2%2C+crafting_recipes.ingredient1%2C+crafting_recipes.quantity1%2C+&where=unreleased%3D0&join_on=&group_by=&having=&order_by[0]=&order_by_options[0]=ASC&limit=&offset=&format=
this is two products and first ingredient, you have to add the required fields manually at the bottom in "modify query"

[pseudo crest]

so I've got an oil well and and each satellite can do 75 oil / m does that mean i can combine all (450/m) into a single pipe?

[deft lichen]

yes

note that it's worth overclocking resource extractors because resource nodes are limited

[pseudo crest]

yeah ive got it fully oced

[modest path]

alternative recipes don't intended to be balanced between themselves?

[deft lichen]

Alternate recipes generally require different input materials than the original, trading between raw material consumption, space, power, simplicity, and availability of material.

they're not "upgrades", they're alternatives

[wind spade]

alternate recipes are... alternatives 😄

[modest path]

or they balanced including ALL parameters such as energy consumption, place required and total time?

[wind spade]

what is recipe 1 and recipe 2?

[wind spade]

and what's your problem with them?

[deft lichen]

cast screw saves power and space over default
steel screw uses worse resources but is incredibly fast

[modest path]

it seems that it is too fast

[deft lichen]

steel beams are expensive though

[wind spade]

uses steel, which is rarer than iron

it's all subjective, if the trade is worth for you, go for that

[modest path]

in the table above: 40 ingots can be converted either into 160 screw or 780

[wind spade]

for the other one you also need 40 coal

[small kayak]

It's mostly situational.

[modest path]

60 actually with default recipe

but it doesn't matter

[wind spade]

wait until you hear about steel rod

which makes screws even cheaper

[modest path]

that one extremely slow

[wind spade]

see, always a tradeoff

also slow just means you need more machines

[modest path]

10 rods per minute consumption means that i need f***ing huge amount of machines

[wind spade]

which is not an issue given space and power are practically unlimited

[modest path]

but how can be explained this?

caterium ore supposed to be very expensive?

[wind spade]

no

[modest path]

so 33% less ore worth 20% speed and refinery...

[wind spade]

more production with more complex setup 🤷‍♂️

[modest path]

refinery requires much more place and energy

[wind spade]

yeah, and?

[modest path]

nevermind

[wind spade]

it's your choice which one you use. You can do simple setup that makes less, or more complex setup that makes more

I don't get your point 🤔

[modest path]

well, in my opinion alternative recipe too slow for such expenses

[wind spade]

again, slow is irrelevant, you can just build more machines to make up for it

[modest path]

ok, slow and requires too much energy

[wind spade]

power is pretty much infinite 🤷‍♂️

maxed nuclear build produces way more power than you'll ever need and that's without counting coal or fuel (or turbofuel)

and again - nothing forces you to use any of the recipes. If you don't like them, don't use them. They aren't supposed to be "better" or "worse". They are different way to make things

pick one that you like, use that

[vapid gorge]

You can have more power on your map than you can actually use because your computer will crap itself the map gets so filled.

[cinder silo]

Ain't that the truth, I generate way more power than I use and the save is getting quite large with only a fraction of resources in use.

[median heath]

Ah, someone still thinking "fast" and "slow" are relevant terms in production.

[deft lichen]

"fast" roughly translates to high per-machine output (thus, by extension low power and space usage)

like, steel screws are fast, but crystal oscillators are slow

[median heath]

Still find the term irrelevant.

Space saving is the accurate way to say it.

[deft lichen]

I agree that it's not a good term for describing recipe properties

[median heath]

If you talk about speed on your wiki I swear to ADA...

[deft lichen]

it is there, but it's explained in other terms, so there's no ambiguity with its usage

[oblique hollow]

hmm i wonder who wrote that

imo smaller logistical impact is a good deal

it requires you to make screws on site and you can pretty much use constructors directly next to the destination

[wind spade]

it doesn't matter much if you have manifold with 3 or 15 machines, logistics are pretty much equal 🤷‍♂️

[modest path]

initially i questioned if anybody worry about fact that some recipes seem unbalanced by amount of resources required. besides that possessing knowledge that a way more effective recipe locked by hard drives and it is impossible to obtain that recipe on demand can be frustrating

[wind spade]

that depends on each player's definition of "effective"

[median heath]

It's all about what you value.
If resource-efficiency is what matters most, some recipes hit that bill.
If you want to save space, other recipes hit that bill.
It's almost impossible to have both as usually that is the trade - efficiency vs. space.

Other recipes shine by doing something in a less-efficient way, but by costing only 1 resource.
Similarly, others bring in a 3rd or 4th resource to reduce the amount of the 1st and second required.

It's all about trade-offs with extremely few exceptions.

As for "obtaining without RNG" -- I still like alts requiring hard drives and exploration, but if they put them into the MAM the way they did with Turbofuel, Poly Fabric, and Compacted Coal I would be happier.

[oblique folio]

Is turbofuel in the MAM with the new update?
or is the recipe still only obtainable through hard drives?

[deft lichen]

MAM sulfur chain

[median heath]

In the MAM but costs a hard drive.

[deft lichen]

It costs a drive but you can't get it by the rng scanning

[median heath]

Yes.

Which is my hope that they do that for other alts.
Make it cost us a drive, but take more of the RNG out of it.
Imo this encourages exploration even more because you can set out knowing you need to get X number of drives to get to the recipe you want.
Instead of "let me go get drives and then randomly hope I get what I'm after".

[wind spade]

well if you know what you're after, you roll for it while the pool is small 🙂 but yeah, would be nice if it was less random

[distant aurora]

is there a simple way to plan out pipe balancers?

i want 6 270 pipes from 14 extractors

[median heath]

Pipe balancers?
That sounds like you're breaking one of the cardinal rules of piping.

Do not think about pipes in terms of belts.

[distant aurora]

i know they can flow both ways and stuff but tbh the math with pipe throughputs is even more complicated

[median heath]

If you know they can flow both ways "and stuff" why are you even attempting to make a balancer, given that would be under the "and stuff" you should know to not do?

[distant aurora]

by pipe balancer i mean something like this https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550566991724545/1023185556114526248

[median heath]

I mean, I wouldn't attempt that ever, but you could make a similar system by using valves on mk1s to limit the flow of each outgoing pipe to 270?

You just need to make sure the configuration has a pseudo VOP system built into it to make sure fluids prefer to go where you want them to.

[distant aurora]

the problem isn't the throughput per se it's making 14 pipes into 6. the fluids should manifold out

[median heath]

How much is in each of the 14?

[distant aurora]

120

god i'd kill for mk1 pipes tto be 360/m life would be so much easier

[median heath]

14*120/270 = 6.22222222222222222

System will back up and stall.

[distant aurora]

well it's actually 13.5 extractors mb

(36*45)/270=6

36 coal plants

[median heath]

Yeah you just need VOP so that when the firs 270 pipe is full the remaining flow goes onward.

[distant aurora]

VOP?

[median heath]

Variable Output Priority.
Piping manual is pinned in this channel.

[wind spade]

have a pipe connect to exact amount of machines. Don't care about any balancing between pipes. Solved.

[nova crater]

Can anyone explain Turbo Fuel to me? Is it worth it? Can you tell me the math?

[median heath]

It's useful for making bullets.

Otherwise, Diluted Fuel gets you to nuclear just fine.

[nova crater]

@median heath I appreciate that!

[median heath]

Prior to being able to have waste-free nuclear, Turbofuel was a solid power option.
But since they added Plutonium Rods which can be sunk... meh.
May see a spike in use again if they do add it to the Jetpack options.

[nova crater]

@median heath I used Turbo Fuel 2 years ago and I knew it was a key.. but I don't see it much anymore. I don't have the blender yet so I know my setup isnt as powerful as it could be. Thought TF would help with it

@median heath Also I am stuggling with power.. Seem like everytime I build a factory I need more power.. I already expanded Coal and I just made my Heavy Modular Frame factory and I still need to do computers lol

Game is a struggle

[median heath]

I would say stop building so big until you have better power?

[nova crater]

@median heath Thats just it... I am only making 4 HMF/min..

[median heath]

And all the other parts you're also making?

[nova crater]

What do you mean?

[median heath]

Are you making Iron Plates?

[nova crater]

Yes everything has been made to this point

[median heath]

So then you are not "only making 4 HMF/min.."

Because you're also making everything else.

Also if you're at the stage with Manufacturers, you should be getting Fuel Power online.

[nova crater]

Well yeah, Sorry for the confusion

Yes I had a quick and dirty fuel set up and Im ready to actually make it.. so that is why I was asking about Turbo Fuel

The quick and dirty was to get HMF online

[median heath]

Normal Fuel will get you to T7 and Diluted Fuel just fine.

Diluted carries you to nuclear.

[nova crater]

Gotcha, thank you!

[distant aurora]

i uhhhhh

i made a pretty big oopsie

[median heath]

If you're making enough power, just connect and then reset after the trip.

[distant aurora]

nope, old was connected while trying to connect new

i'm pretty sure i have enough power between the two, but the generation wont kick in fast enough

i had a 16 gen plant that was replaced by the new one and my capacity was way above max consumption so i know for a fact it's enough power

but if the factory is only connected to my first plant on the other end of the desert, it trips. then i connect the new plant to the grid, that also trips, and if i try to flip the switch the whole thing trips before one or both of them can start properly

so i might need to connect both of them across literally the whole desert to start my factory again

[summer trench]

how can i get 10 iron plates/m separated from my one line of 40 plates/min

[median heath]

What are you doing with the 10 plates?

[summer trench]

im producing 40 plates/min but i only need 30/min to make reinforced iron plates (I started the world today, so im just getting started)

[median heath]

Smart Splitter is your simplest path.

[summer trench]

Is that unlocked under caterium?

[median heath]

Yes

Just need QW > AIL > Smart Splitter

Then you put one to send Iron Plates to the RIPs, and Overflow to where you want the 10 extras to go.

[summer trench]

I kind of forgot that those existed

Thanks!

[median heath]

I legit use them more than I use the default splitter.

[vale perch]

Is there any good reason the calculator wants me to do this with alumina refineries when they add up to 100%?

I know it saves up on power but doesn't seem worth it so I was wondering if there's anything else

[median heath]

That hurts to look at tbh.

[vale perch]

yeah there's that too lol

[median heath]

Mainly because it isn't Tools.

🤷‍♂️ I'm a fanboy, sue me. 🙂

[vale perch]

I'll take that as a no then

[median heath]

How much are you trying to make and with which recipes?

[vale perch]

120 and just the defaults for now

[median heath]

Sec

[vale perch]

the rest of the setup scim gave me was sensible
just this part confused me

[median heath]

The unnecessary nodes for junctions/splitters are what makes it hurt to look at.

This is so much easier to follow imo

[vale perch]

Scim has the simplified view too
But that combines all same-blueprint buildings into "assembler x-whatever"
and the realistic view is where my question comes from cause it splits the refineries up

[median heath]

Yeah... idk what that program does what it does.

[tropic hawk]

Yep, like I always say:
SCIM is for map
SatisfactoryTools is for calculations
The wiki is for being a wiki

[vale perch]

alright so it is just it derping then

[median heath]

But I will never not use Tools for planning because it is, in my completely subjective biased opinion, "better"

[distant aurora]

the worst part of satisfactory calculator is that it rounds out decimal overclock %s

[tropic hawk]

Hence why SatisfactoryTools are better

[median heath]

Tools does that after 3, but if you hover it shows you the exact numbers.

[vapid gorge]

Try using satisfactorytools.com it's much simpler in lay out and figuring out what to do

ah already covered

[cloud marlin]

should i be able to sink plutonium pellet or non fissle uranium or do i need to go all they way to fuel rod?

[deft lichen]

all the way to fuel rod

[hoary wolf]

satisfactory-calculator always hurts with schemes... Like i wanna 400 Fuel and got this

But there is simple way to go like this just maxing out all to 250%

I very want something like DO NOT OPTIMISE POWER CONSUMPTION check mark

[finite sun]

that's why it's better to use greeny's tools
even considering they don't actually show generators on flowcharts

[heavy gust]

whats the best way to build a hypertube travel system?

[vapid gorge]

Have entrances at places you want to get on and off and connect? You need to be a bit more specific

[heavy gust]

well should i build them very high, closer to the ground?

they do slow down at upwards slopes but also gain a lot of speed at downward slopes

[finite sun]

if you want speed, google for "hypertube cannon"

you don't have to do slopes

[lethal furnace]

A bunch of entrances in a row will give you a lot of speed.

[heavy gust]

another option would be to go straight up and then horizontal

but i dont know if thats faster

[vapid gorge]

Unless you build hyper cannons the only way to avoid losing speed by climbing is not changing elevation.

[vapid gorge]

ehhhhhh... prob not enough to matter.
If it's a long distance tube it's a chance to get up and go to the bathroom or get a drink anyway

[heavy gust]

need to get from factory A to factory B

[vapid gorge]

yeah either way that's going to take awhile. Unless your specific goal is to maximise speed it won't make a big dif.
And the main way to maximise speed is hyper cannon

[lethal furnace]

Does the U-Jelly prevent damage from hyper tubes?

[heavy gust]

ill look into the cannon

[vapid gorge]

if you're falling from one sure. I've never taken dmg from the cannon travelling horizontal

[cinder silo]

Err not really, you tend to be launched through them before the collision code can catch you.

[lethal furnace]

Alright.

[vapid gorge]

if you don't end up wanting to do a cannon your best bet is probably to keep it level and go around on the coast

[lethal furnace]

I meant at the exit.

[vapid gorge]

... are you taking dmg at the exit?

[cinder silo]

Here is a demonstration on how physics fails, while you don't take damage, you end up not stopping as well.

Put an unpowered exit at the end to act as a brake so the above doesn't happen.

[lethal furnace]

Okay, thanks.

[cinder silo]

After that a simple wall or railing should catch you (and no damage)

[wicked tinsel]

there is a cave connecting canyon and desert that goes right where your straight red line is

so just follow that

[heavy gust]

lol there is? thats good to know

[wicked tinsel]

ye

those two caves

[deft lichen]

that website is heavily outdated, use https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[heavy gust]

oh

[zinc basin]

If you dont play like this you are playing wrong 😎

[proven valve]

max consumption higher than production 👀💀

[elfin osprey]

aaaaaaa

how is it so good

[frosty owl]

Flat is justice!
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/893141971487555676/Immagine.png

[heavy gust]

i have been stuck on tier 5 and 6 way too long. Those elevator parts get so expensive

everyone where has multiples of my power budged

[median heath]

Oh you sweet summer child...

[heavy gust]

im setting up this so i can finaly move on

[median heath]

When you glimpse the T7-8 Elevator requirement please post your reaction to it here.

[heavy gust]

used to repurpose my factory for the parts, but that doesnt do it anymore

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts.

[errant sable]

just handcraft everything

[median heath]

You can't handcraft Project Parts.

[errant sable]

not with that attitude

[proven valve]

facts

[solar jay]

Yes! I just tested this on stream a couple nights ago. Even with a 17 entrance hyper cannon, it will stop you from takin any damage. Just uh, make sure it's powered... lol.

[solar jay]

Nabbed a clip real fast for proof!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1602012253

[solar jay]

But one last thing to note, just having two entrances facing the opposite direction (ie; having a hyper cannon attached to each end of a single tube) will kill your momentum completely, so the U-Jelly is not needed.

[finite sun]

those don't unlock anything worth mentioning tho

[median heath]

Golden Mug 😭

[finite sun]

empty hands > mug

[cinder silo]

Golden mug doesn't change much though.

[median heath]

Makes the tea taste better.

[hollow juniper]

Question
i set my assemblers for stitched iron plates to 80% so i can input 30 wire and 15 plates, which are nicer numbers to work with than the normal recipe.

on the satisfactory planner, i need "803.4531%" worth of stitched assemblers for my starter base

so if i divide that by 80 ( the % of my machines) ill get how many machines i need to make up for it (10.0431 assemblers)

Its late and im running on monster so how am i doing?

it has the correct outcome

[rain stone]

How you do that

[hollow juniper]

45.194

10 machines doing 4.5 per mion
Plus the 0.194 set as the outcome

[hollow juniper]

it looks like a planner site
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

type in your requirements and itll tell you what to make
be sure to mess with the settings though so you can the most efficient, stuff

[median heath]

Not precisely possible.

803.4531/80 = 10.04316375
Which the game will change to 10.0431 and drop the remainder.

[hallow leaf]

Having consumption = max consumption is justice !

[hollow juniper]

yeah but with the 10 machines dojng 4.5/ min and im looking for 45.195/min
i can just set the 0.195 to the output number, or just drop it

[hollow juniper]

so flat
thats hot

[median heath]

Why not go for a flat 45/min?

[hollow juniper]

satisfactory planner put the 195 in
so ill probs drop it

[median heath]

45/min is just 8 Assemblers running at 100%.

Simple.

[hollow juniper]

ik but 10 working at 80% means the inputs are 15 and 30

which is the outputs from my contructors

so i can have cleaner logisitcs

[median heath]

8 Stitched at 100% is just 5 Iron Plates at 100% and 10 Wire at 100%

Clean.

[hollow juniper]

Where you getting those numbers from lol?

[wind spade]

I mean... almost 🙂

[median heath]

Target is 45/min

45/5.625 = 8
So you need 8 Assemblers

8 * 18.75 = 150
150 / 20 = 7.5
So you need 7.5 Constructors for Iron Plates (the 5 was a mistake, apologies)

8 * 37.5 = 300
300 / 30 = 10
So you need 10 Constructors for Wire

Stitched Plates are a simple example of the 45-81 rule at work.

[hollow juniper]

oh i thought it was like 10 wire/min lol
as i said im tired

[heady topaz]

Quick question. 598 Turbo fuel per minute is enough to feed how many fuel generators at 100%?

[median heath]

132.888888888888888888888888888_

But I wouldn't burn Turbofuel in generators.

[heady topaz]

is there a better option?

[median heath]

Nuclear.

[heady topaz]

I'm not at that point yet.

[hollow juniper]

you can make 100% nuclear with the stuff around the swamp region
aslong as its stuff around the N.Eastern parts of the map, go have fubn

[median heath]

Diluted Fuel is far more than enough to get you to that point though.

[hollow juniper]

ive never done turbofuel because is swallows sulfur but go have fun

[median heath]

Turbofuel was useful for power back before we could recycle Uranium Waste.
Now that we can, it's not ever necessary to use.

[cinder silo]

My next save will probably run the entire show on dilute.

[hollow juniper]

this save im doing all but one of the nuclear nodes, the NW node is what im going to use for my other stuff such as nuclear bombs and other bits

but go make what you want fam
its your world
you can always deconstruct stuff

[heady topaz]

yes. My turbofuel setup is only temporary. Coal power was not enough for the nodes I had used.

[median heath]

You skipped from Coal to Turbo without ever doing normal Fuel??

[cinder silo]

My main save is a bit of the large side.

[heady topaz]

yes

[hollow juniper]

you can use powerbanks to "jumpstart" nuclear factorys anyway
also yeah going straight to turbo fuel isnt a great idea

i wish you could use turbofuel for a more efficent jetpack

[median heath]

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[heady topaz]

turbo is better than normal ??

[cinder silo]

I did that in my main save, had 96 coal generators up to start booting the first turbofuel refinery setup before getting the whole thing going, granted it was back in update 3 when I built it.

[hollow juniper]

it requires alot of resources,
its one of the "lesser" power sources of the game in terms of worth

[median heath]

Logic.... absent.
Mind... incapable of comprehension...
Discord... shutting down...

[hollow juniper]

let him play as he wants, let the man learn
i made 50 smart boards/min in my first big iron factory because i thought it was useful for later

[heady topaz]

I have made many stupid decisions playing games. having fun is not one of them.

[cinder silo]

I wouldn't repeat that now though, might just as well build a small nuke.

[vapid nest]

About to upgrade my plastic factory from using packaged diluted fuel to diluted fuel replacing a bunch of packagers with 8 blenders, wish me luck

[ionic galleon]

Mass fuel all the way, for me

[cinder silo]

Fuel is straightforward and I don't use giant amounts of power, about 100gw maybe.

[ionic galleon]

Good call, and good luck.

My power gen is fed by fuel production using packaged diluted fuel (didn't have blenders back then), but I've just built fuel production using diluted fuel and blenders for the computer factory that I'm building.

Only like 11x my power generation...

(I have 9 GW total, all fuel gens running on regular fuel)

[cinder silo]

Ow, I have 133.2gw from fuel generators alone.

[tropic hawk]

What do you mean, better option?

[tropic hawk]

Good luck

[vapid gorge]

As did I @median heath XD waited until blenders were unlocked

[vapid nest]

Everything worked just fine, currently waiting for the System to balance

[lunar stag]

Question for everyone: is there a list somewhere for the most space efficient form of basic resources?

[vapid gorge]

like ingots?

[tropic hawk]

Can you clarify your definition of 'base resources'?

[lunar stag]

So for instance, steel ingot produced with pure iron and solid steel recipes, is that more stack/space efficient than the ores?

[vapid gorge]

so you mean the ingot+coal recipe?

[lunar stag]

Yeah basically

[vapid gorge]

if so then that objectively needs a step of smelting iron

so that will take more space than the base steel

[lunar stag]

Sure, but it's also a higher yield

[vapid gorge]

Exactly.

so what you're lookign for is ... strictly volume?

[lunar stag]

I'm just wondering how much preprocessing to do before I put it on a train

[tropic hawk]

So are you asking us storing iron ore and coal instead of steel ingots is more space effecient?

[vapid gorge]

depends on how you like to do things 🙂
I like processing things as high as possible on location before shipping

Some people move many trains of raw ore by train

[tropic hawk]

Some people go in-between

[median heath]

@lunar stag if you want the lowest-volume thing you can transport concerning Steel - turn it all the way into Pipes.

Then ship.

[lunar stag]

Because pipes can be used for every major recipe after that, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

@lunar stag and depending what you're using them for and what resources are around you could turn the pipes into encased beams first

[lunar stag]

Well that's just it. I'm wondering if anyone has done a space efficiency analysis for rail shipping yet

Don't wanna redo someone else's work if it's been done

[vapid gorge]

Well
Assuming you're going to use the same steps regardless of distance the only 'space saving' you can do is minimizing trains

[median heath]

It hasn't been done because the list would just keep going...
The logistics break point is entirely dependent on what you are making and where you are making it.

[vapid gorge]

and if that's the case building up as high tier as possible reduces the train cars or drones needed

[lunar stag]

Ain't making anything yet, this is before I begin construction

[tropic hawk]

Number 1 fact to know: What is 'best' almost always varies on your use case (there are a few constants that don't change)

[lunar stag]

I don't have a use-case yet, this is part of the preplanning phase to pick a use-case

[vapid gorge]

well if you're aiming for strictly reduced space then your best best is to have a final parts per minute plan for your world

Break it off into hubs located on spots that requires the least importation of material and thus have the least logistics

[lunar stag]

That's exactly what I'm aiming for, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

That's what I'm doing XD

[lunar stag]

Oh, sweet.

[vapid gorge]

I have an excel sheet where I've broken down the resource per minute by zone if you're interested?

[finite sun]

and if you're transporting with trains, you can transport pretty much whatever
train throughput is easily scaled

space is the only issue

[lunar stag]

Oh that would be super helpful. I'm still determining where I wanna put my shipping hubs

My wife and I started a game and basically handcrafted our way to trains to avoid building too much permanent infrastructure

[finite sun]

you can build small permanent (not really) infrastructure

it doesn't take much machines or space to make basic iron-tier stuff and steel-tier stuff

[tropic hawk]

Ouch. It's OK to tear factories down if you need to... You get 100% resources back...

[lunar stag]

We intend to

Just didn't wanna do too much of it until we had a good upgrade path determined

We didn't wanna waste too much time in the lower tiers and figured we'd tech up straight and start working with scale at petroleum power

[dire condor]

anybody know of a good way to plan out factories I have an excel spread sheet that I used to calculate how many of each machine I need but am unsure how best to go about laying out the factory

[storm fiber]

What type of factory? Iron, steel, qrts etc

What's the final product of your factory and what's the goal per min of that product. That should help you find the size of the factory

[tropic hawk]

Graphing paper and pencil

Scale of 1 foundation = 1 square

[dire condor]

@tropic hawk thanks for the advice

[ember sapphire]

is this math correct

[vapid gorge]

Some of them haves alt recipes. You'd have to get a calculator and sort it out

[heady bolt]

what tool is that

is there a pretty good tool for calculating between recipes or do you have to do it all long hand

[ember sapphire]

can we no post links

[median heath]

use SatisfactoryTools.

[heady bolt]

thank you this looks pretty sweet. much appreciated

[median heath]

It is the best!

[heady bolt]

wow it even shows you a path to automize the project. thats crazy lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah and for big projects you can make a giant plan for overall works and then make smaller plans in new tabs for parts

It's probably the best tool to use and visualise

[heady bolt]

ok i was just about to ask how to do that haha

new tabs makes sense

im on complete phase 3 and my god the amount of shit with the amount of infrastructure i have is crazy

[vapid gorge]

yeah so like lets say you want 30 heavy modular frames a minute and you make a plan for it. Great.

If you want to break it down into like .. Modular frames you make a plan for that and then you can change your HMF and use the 'input' section to manually put in how many frames you're making

[vapid gorge]

Like this is my world plan which is not at all usable to build with but good to get numbers to work with https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ZGKXZJmVI9OOPLgdDd6I

So I took it apart and broke it down. One break for example is this https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=9EusUvCa7z9XJLFx4PRj

[heady bolt]

lol in that first link ive never seen any of those items 😂

not even regular batteries level yet 😦

[vapid gorge]

you'll get there! It's great for smaller scale stuff too

[patent dirge]

How do you fill one belt out of two near full belts? So my question comes from that I have a mass iron refinement set up with 9 rows of 13.7142 refineries (each row able to accommodate a 480 belt) which produce 891.4285 ingots each row. My problem starts here. I have that split into two belts one 455 and one 436.4285. I want to have one belt be 480 and the other some odd remainder ad do this all the way down the line turning 18 odd belts into 16 belts of 480 and one odd belt of 342. I’ve tried using smart splitters and mergers, but have found that the way i am doing slows down effectiveness of the primary line going into the merger. Is there some way i can get the merger to have preferential treatment of one belt over the other?

[median heath]

Belt compressor.

[patent dirge]

What?

[median heath]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_rXrJ8CWyjNExcayArby3HjRpDUXV5sd8QvFrdNZxBc/edit

[patent dirge]

Thank you so much i have spent three hours working with those belts, true life savor.

[median heath]

Anytime.

[vapid gorge]

I would argue that simply clocking a number of refineries to make 480 in one section that you would merge would be simpler though

[heady bolt]

this game blows my mind lmfao. just seeing that link on belt compressing. my god haha

[patent dirge]

Don’t you know you need a degree in mathematics and mechanical engineering to truly play the game. Lmao

[calm gale]

is baking 60 rip per min and 240 iron rods per min viable or no? asking cause i legit dk if thats enough for a MF factory

[median heath]

It's doable.
But if you're asking how much you should make -- you're the only one who can answer that.

Pick how many MFs you want to make, that will tell you how many RIPs and Rods you need.

[calm gale]

true but im trying to balance RIP to iron rod and afaict thats the only one i can do

[median heath]

Again, pick how many MFs you want to make.

[calm gale]

that would get me 40 MF per min

[median heath]

Do you want 40?

[calm gale]

idk

[median heath]

Well then you're going to be stuck until you make your decision.

You can pick 30, you can pick 27.895.

But you have to pick one before the rest of the question can be answered.

[calm gale]

only thing i can decide on is "making a MF factory" and "balancing both rods to RIP"

[median heath]

Stop solving forwards.

[cinder silo]

For larger stuff, start with the number of the end products, and plug that in to https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[calm gale]

i legit dk how many i need cause TBH wat i ultamately wanna do is be able to tie in everything to make 1 item in the game if i could but idek how to do that

[median heath]

Which 1 item?

[wintry aurora]

You mean starting with end products or starting with the inputs (ore, usually)

[calm gale]

idk but 1 item that ties in every item from every tier to make

[median heath]

That is split across 2 items actually.

[calm gale]

see i never knew that

[median heath]

Technically 3 if you count power.

Decide how much nuclear you want.
Then decide on a per/min of both Turbo Motors and Supercomputers.

Every item in the game goes into those 3 things.

[wintry aurora]

That depends entirely on the recipe and what you’re trying to make.

[calm gale]

appearently turbo moters and super computers

TBH i never knew those were the 2 "end game" items

[median heath]

Indeed.

[calm gale]

ofc for now im gated to tier 6 max so

[cinder silo]

I planned the production of everything, using satisfactory tools, and one of three main products, turbo motors, super computers and fused frames, just add a couple more to earlier items in the chain and you get some of just about everything produced that you can send to stores.

[median heath]

Fused Frames is part of Turbos though.

[cinder silo]

I fucked up along the way for sure, but it wasn't many end game items to plan for everything, which resulted in this place.

[median heath]

Fair.

[calm gale]

btw legit question but 40 MF per min is that too much or? (im asking cause i legit dk)

[median heath]

Too much is again, a question only you can answer.

[cinder silo]

I allowed for 11.25 heavy modular frames, 6 of them went to the fusion blenders for fused frames., the rest to stores.

[calm gale]

Sevrahn true normally but idk so im asking

[median heath]

Zula does 11.25 HMFs, I do 135.
"Too much" is solely decided by you.

[calm gale]

ok

[median heath]

So anywhere between 11.25 and 135 is "fine" 🙂

[calm gale]

lol

[cinder silo]

Exactly, I haven't considered building more simply because I don't need to, four industrial cans already overflow, though I will probably try something bigger after the SE facility finally goes up.

[vapid gorge]

long time no satisfactorying Dovah

[cinder silo]

Hell you could build enough to have 1 heavy and 1 fused frame if that's what you want.

[calm gale]

ok then going by that logic Taro id probably say the setup i have now woud be more then enough if it was actually done right

hi COD

[vapid gorge]

mostly hanging in the mod discord?

[calm gale]

ofc

[vapid gorge]

XD

[cinder silo]

The factory in the 12 second panorama produces "everything"

[calm gale]

TBH i only came back here cause my friend finally got SF for himself lol

[vapid gorge]

one of us one of us

[calm gale]

btw making MF at all is very tough

[cinder silo]

Wait until you start spewing aluminium scrap like this place 🤣

[calm gale]

i think ill just do 10x the base recipe for now

ok now my question is how the heck do i find enough iron to cover 360 iron per min with enough iron for 120 iron rods

[median heath]

Which biome are you in?

[cinder silo]

Iron is abundant as hell, where did you start?

[calm gale]

grassy plains

[median heath]

O O F

[wintry aurora]

There’s tons of iron there.

[calm gale]

but i need enough to make 120 iron rods per min

[wintry aurora]

Iron is NOT something that area lacks.

[calm gale]

so more node combining

[wintry aurora]

Use more than one miner then.

[vapid gorge]

That's easy peasy

[calm gale]

COD u know me

[cinder silo]

You're not short of iron there, I fed enough iron to produce like 1400 iron wire from one spot there.

[tropic hawk]

IIRC there is 8 nodes withing 30 second walking distance of each other

[vapid gorge]

but you've been playing for aaaages. 120 rods is a nothing thing right ? 😄

[wintry aurora]

What do you need 120 iron rods/m for though.

[calm gale]

COD normally had i not been using the only nodes ive found for RIP and steel lol

[tropic hawk]

Probably MFs

[calm gale]

modular frames

[tropic hawk]

Called it

[vapid gorge]

Ah well see what satisfactory tools spits out for you and go from there 🙂

[calm gale]

true but im failing to figure basic math right

ik i need 8 constructors but as for smelters and nodes im not sure

[wintry aurora]

Go to SCIM and look at the map.

[vapid gorge]

Well this is for 10x base recipes https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=UCZ8uw72sHoviFxWbMtc

Though I tend to go for Steeled Frame and Stitched Plate

[cinder silo]

8 constructors isn't so bad, there are 30 here 😄

The main thing is to take building a step at a time, don't let it daunt you.

[median heath]

Did someone say Constructors?

[cinder silo]

Exactly!

[calm gale]

ok the constructors isnt the issue its the mathing to get the rest of the info

just to clarify

[median heath]

Tools does the math for you.

[wintry aurora]

Also, which belt do you have available atm?

[calm gale]

i legit forgor bout that site btw

mk3 tops

[cinder silo]

That should be more than enough to feed 8 constructors, that's 270, the smelter takes 30, you'll probably have 8 of those max, which is 240,., probably would help if I had the game open.

[calm gale]

its 4 smelters to 8 constructors

[cinder silo]

Whoops!.

The mk3 with splitters/mergers has that covered, 120 ore then.

[calm gale]

now legit just have to find 120 iron total lol

[wintry aurora]

Pretty sure you need more than that?

[calm gale]

also most the iron nodes i do have are already tapped

[cinder silo]

Two normals or four impures, just merge the mines on to one mk3 belt and feed the smelters.

That is keeping mk1 miners in mind.

[wintry aurora]

Or tap whatever leftovers you have on other belts.

[calm gale]

side note i wish i could disable the "claimed" nodes from searches

impure is 30 right?

[vapid gorge]

You wouldn't happen to know if greeny has notifications that might wake them up with a ping do you?

[vapid gorge]

Is my very convenient link to 20 mf per min a joke to you 😛 ?

[calm gale]

if i can find the nodes yes

[vapid gorge]

Screen cap a picture of the map with the nodes you're using in SCIM, then cross out nodes as you use them up

[calm gale]

ok so got the iron rod nodes

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

I am going to bed now though.

[vapid gorge]

I'll try not to wake you 😛

[wintry aurora]

That’s what I’ve done. You could also use the radar tower, but it’s like one step forward, one step back because you can’t filter and the radar tower is back to being not so great.

[calm gale]

i might have everything if i can find 1 more set of 120 lol

[vapid gorge]

@calm gale @wintry aurora If you're interested I have a spread sheet of resource per minute by zone that you could use to keep track of what you have and haven't used?

[calm gale]

sure

flip me the last iron node i could find id need a mk3 mineer for

[wintry aurora]

I do put signs on the miners, don’t think I’m at the point that I need a spreadsheet though.

[vapid gorge]

I think it's probably more useful to help plan locations to reduce material logistics.

[wind spade]

You can ping me whenever, I've never been woken up by discord notifications lol

[frosty owl]

||Flash-forward to Cobalt getting ed from the server for "Annoying pinging of Pioneer-roled users"||

[vapid gorge]

Have you considered, in the recipe section, to lay out out as a drop down option from base recipes to their alts rather than just 2 columns in alphabetical order?

[wind spade]

how do you enable and disable things in dropdown though 😛

you can also use the search on top if you want to search for recipes

[vapid gorge]

little check boxes for each still

yeah but searching suuuuuuuuucccckkkkkksssss

[wind spade]

I'm not sure how would dropdown improve UX 🤔

[vapid gorge]

Mostly not having to search and scroll to disable say base mod frames then scroll through the mod frame alts with dif starting letters for example

[wind spade]

ah, I've re-read your suggestion now.

main problem: alt is not alt to base recipe, alt is just alt and there's no base recipe 😛

another problem: would require me to do the sorting manually instead of automatically

[ruby field]

I wishful thinking from me. It would be nice if there were a map "under-layer" for the Satisfactory Calculator or Tool.

So we could place the items on the map. For planning purposes.

[river night]

couldnt you mark things as "done" in the satisfactorytools planner at some point, or did i just forget how to do it

[frosty owl]

You mean "clicking on production nodes so they get grayed out"?

[river night]

yeah

but i must be stupid or its broken

[vapid gorge]

Hmmm could you present them in the list in such a way that they are ordered by base recipe but have the alt recipes indented directly under the base?

[cinder silo]

Belt testing arena for the benefit of some folks in #satisfactory

[stark bronze]

damn signs really do complete good arenas

[cinder silo]

I used the signs to record overflow data.

The blue test area is actually one huge welded belt, due to its inventory size even that had throughput issues, a 1 section welded belt.

[stark bronze]

cant blame something that shouldnt exist on the design standpoint in the first place lol

[cinder silo]

True, the whole fusing belts thing was a work-around for the precision problems, trouble is that is also flawed.

[stark bronze]

all we can do is hope for the flaw to go away before they are confident in 1.0

[cinder silo]

It's looking like actual numbers will need changes to lower throughput but the same ratios, though as shown in the footage above, I managed some loss even on a mk3 belt.

[stark bronze]

Personally id also like less demand for high speed belts
Having a lot of items moving around feels empowering but items blending into a blur doesnt help too much on the aesthetics

[cinder silo]

I saw that, I have vencam's save and seeing the slower belts at the ends of lines looks damned cool I admit, I probably should try to not have everything flying past at light speed.

[ionic galleon]

Eh, belt go brrr. I like that tbh.

[stark bronze]

they dont even actually go brr like not one but two trailers showed

its not a technical difficulty because pipes clearly can have sounds

[pine crystal]

Is there a breakdown of power plant building counts for different processes somewhere?

I need to expand my output and have Diluted Packaged Fuel but haven't completed Phase 3 yet, so no Blenders for Diluted Fuel direct. Looking to expand into a new plant on an unoccupied Crude Oil (Pure) node.

Basically I'm looking to see if I am better off going through the process of packaging diluted fuel and unpackaging it or if the intermediate buildings will eat too much of the power gain and I should just go Crude->HOR->Fuel.

[calm gale]

if thats even possible pls pls pls lmk lol

[median heath]

Just do Residual until you get Blenders.

[brittle thunder]

honestly, the packaging/unpackaging isn't terrible. I'd go HOR then diluted for the 2.5 times gain

[heavy gust]

At what point is it more efficient to use trains for item transport instead of belts?

is there even a clear point, how much does it depend on distance

[brittle thunder]

somewhere around 1km I guess, though I have belts up to 3km in some places

[heavy gust]

also, is there a way to calculate item throughput?

[brittle thunder]

depends what you are transporting, high throughput stuff like ore, use a belt

[heavy gust]

i never used trains

[brittle thunder]

number of items being transported divided by round trip time

[heavy gust]

im not going to build a train just to find out it was a waste of time, cant that be done before?

[brittle thunder]

you can have a stab at it, yes

[median heath]

Do you just skip truck routes entirely?

[heavy gust]

ye

[median heath]

Why?

[heavy gust]

didnt seem wort the efford

[median heath]

???

Being able to move 1560/min by just driving a route one time?

[heavy gust]

iheard about them being buggy so i didnt bother

[median heath]

You heard about U2 problems in a post-U2 world and didn't want to test for yourself?

[heavy gust]

considering how much time that would take, no i didnt

[median heath]

Oof

[heavy gust]

drove around with the smal truck a little

[median heath]

Single truck route can do more than a train car ever will.

[heavy gust]

and that was kinda bad

[median heath]

Trains matter when you're moving more than 1560/min, and you'll need minimum of 2 cars to do that.

Truck routes can handle everything up to and including 1560/min

[heavy gust]

train it is then

what about the number of trains on a given track?

[hazy saffron]

Trains for long range
Trucks for medium range
Belts for short range

Or something like that

[median heath]

Fewer trains with more cars on longer routes = Max Throughput

[heavy gust]

👍

[snow dove]

Belts for all!

[heavy gust]

belts take way too much efford to build

[hazy saffron]

The real pro gamer move is endless spaghetti

[heavy gust]

on long distances

[snow dove]

completely agree

[median heath]

That's where truck routes begin.

[hazy saffron]

But yeah, belts aren't ideal for anything past like 500 meters

My only complaint about trucks and tractors is the clunky physics

[heavy gust]

well i have a nice 3km belt lane to the oil islands

[hazy saffron]

But that doesn't matter once they're set up

[median heath]

Normally I would say use Explorers.
But the new one feels different tbh.

[hazy saffron]

New explorers or new trucks and tractors?

[snow dove]

belts don’t use power tho

[median heath]

New Explorer.

[hazy saffron]

Ah

[median heath]

It feels heavier/slower.

[snow dove]

belts>>>

[hazy saffron]

Interesting

[heavy gust]

drove this thing, thats also a reason why i never bothered with trucks

[snow dove]

i’m mad that belts can’t move vehicles

ruined my plan for a speedy highway

[hazy saffron]

The tractor is a meme lmao

[median heath]

Like I could normally get up to 100km/h easily on the U5 Explorer.
The U6 one struggles to maintain 80+km/h

[hazy saffron]

The truck is so much better

Although the rear wheel steering annoys me

[heavy gust]

i just expected all vehicles to be as bad

[hazy saffron]

It turns waaaay too sharp

[pine crystal]

Just sat down and did the breakdown. Overclocking to 250% on the Pure node I should net ~17,600 MW for Diluted Pkg. Fuel vs ~5600 for Residual.

Downside to the diluted pkg'd oil plant is I'm looking at 250 buildings vs 80 for HOR, if I've worked it out correctly.

[median heath]

Vehicles do what you outline for them to do.
You need to drive the routes properly.

99% of issues people have on them in a post-U4 environment is user error.

[hazy saffron]

The fuel source determines the acceleration and speed
The physics are just awful

[heavy gust]

whats HOR

[median heath]

Heavy Oil Residue

[pine crystal]

Heavy Oil Residue

[hazy saffron]

Post whatever update they're basically guaranteed to work fine

They'll drive around but if they get stuck they'll just kinda ghost to where they should be after a moment

[median heath]

Whenever they make trucks heavier I will be so, so happy.

[hazy saffron]

Making them heavier would probably solve the physics problems

[median heath]

Aye. When they stop bouncing I will start using them.
Until then, Explorer.

[finite sun]

tractors are fine if your routes are mostly level
since they're terrible at scaling ramps

[median heath]

Why use ramps when you can use Jump Pads?

[pine crystal]

The physics problems would be more negligible if we were able to construct better roads. A spline-based system for that would be nice.

[finite sun]

there isn't much physics problems if you use mostly terrain for roads
instead of building something on it

[median heath]

Driving on the dirt is the best.

[finite sun]

but yeah, they should implement better physics eventually

[median heath]

They have confirmed they will.

[hazy saffron]

They should remove the rear wheel steering from the truck and put the rearmost axles closer together

It has no reason to turn that sharp

[finite sun]

I don't think there was anything as strong as confirmation
more like "yeah, we're looking into it, a solution might be possible"

[median heath]

Can confirm with Marv, but I'm pretty sure they said they are going to overhaul truck physics prior to 1.0.

[pine crystal]

I feel like vehicles kind of bring life to the world, and I delight in seeing one of my trucks/tractors on a route as I go between plants, but watching a truck derp out and then ghost its way back on track is detrimental to the satisfaction that the routes generate.

[barren elm]

Same, I love train bases in factorio for that very reason

It'd be nice if you could build "vehicle nav beacons" or something, place them down like any other object (no collision) and just give vehicles a list of nav beacons to travel between instead of recording paths

[median heath]

I enjoy recording paths 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Terrain is so fiddly I'm not sure it would be useful

[barren elm]

Well the current recording system basically does the above, just automatically placing the "nav beacons" as you drive

[vapid gorge]

exactly. Terrain is so fiddly you'd have to place nodes every 1m like driving the path

[barren elm]

Unless of course you used foundations

[median heath]

Bleh

[barren elm]

And made roads

[median heath]

Drive on the dirt as Hannah intended.

[vapid gorge]

I suppose if you have very long very straight roads you could sprint from one end to another to place points.

Instead of driving from one end to another to pave teh way :

[hybrid birch]

is it possible to have a pure source with a boosted mk3 miner (1200 units per minute) extracted to two different mk5 belts and use the full 1200 units per minute?

[deft lichen]

no

[snow dove]

no

[deft lichen]

mk5 belts are 780/min only, anything over 162.5% on a pure mk3 miner is wasted

[hybrid birch]

is it planned to fix this somehow?

[autumn vapor]

probably not - then you're hitting the upper limit on what Unity can process

devs talked about that a while back iirc

[deft lichen]

this game is made in Unreal Engine 😛

[autumn vapor]

unreal, right

[hybrid birch]

ok, sadge

[autumn vapor]

i am no such Bideo Game Dev i get words wrong lmfao

[deft lichen]

I think they hinted at a possibility of adding a second output but only briefly

mk6 belts were seen in a teaser trailer but aren't in the game

[wind spade]

second output is problematic due to output priority bug

[hybrid birch]

i mean isn't it only a number? they do not have to visualize the whole amount on the belts, so it should be possible somehow to work around this limit, no?

but i think the game was build around the fact that everything moves physically, so maybe thats the issue

[autumn vapor]

that might be a good idea actually - covered conveyor belts might be easier on graphic processing?

covered conveyor belts restricted to tier 5 and up, cannot be connected directly to regular belts, maybe need a special demarcation station just for the programmer's sake

[naive ingot]

There are mods that have tried exactly this but it really doesn't help as much as you'd think.

[wind spade]

it's not the graphics that are the issue

it's belt to belt connections having issues

[autumn vapor]

fair fair

maybe they'll just go full space age and give the pioneers a way to condense materials then - black hole tech to condense a full stack into a single item or sommat

with, yknow, all the tech, safety precautions, and other horrifying implications associated

[small kayak]

Like the pastanium belt from mindustry. Stack it, move it, unstack at destination

[autumn vapor]

aint ever heard of this game before but exactly this

[wintry aurora]

Stacking items would be a good way to get around it, but not so easy with the 3D items.

Dyson Space Program could stack more easily because their items are all cubes anyway, but here, I dunno, they’d have to make new models for all items and is that worth the time?

[small kayak]

Every items gets the same square box, just the item displayed on the sides changes

[wintry aurora]

For DSP, yea.

[naive ingot]

This is why what actually makes a huge performance difference is item teleporter mods.

[wintry aurora]

My point is that CSS can’t do it easily.

[small kayak]

Would require a special belt to balance it out a bit. Wider and costing something like HMF to build

[wintry aurora]

There’s no easy or good solution to stacking here.

Well, maybe there are good ones, just none of them easy.

[small kayak]

Yeah, everything would require a good chunk of changes and coding work. balancing too

[uneven edge]

unpopular opinion - fluids can never be perfectly balanced

[wintry aurora]

That’s a fact, not an opinion.

[median heath]

This sounds like you're still thinking about pipes in terms of belts...

[uneven edge]

no idea what this even means.

youre thinking in 3d while im stuck in 1d

[wintry aurora]

It means you think belt rules apply to fluids when they don’t.

[median heath]

You can balance belts.
You can't balance pipes.
Belt logic and things you can do with belts does not apply to pipes.

Junctions are not splitters, nor are they mergers.

Stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.,

[vocal tundra]

Pipes dont work the same way as belts

[uneven edge]

hmmmmmm

should i literally imagine pipes as transparent with water sloshing around?

[median heath]

Yes.

[uneven edge]

shit

[median heath]

Sloshing is why you can't balance them, lmao.

[wintry aurora]

Not transparent, but yes.

[median heath]

On belts, items go where you tell them.
In pipes, fluid goes where it can.

You have to think about pipes as their own thing and stop correlating them to belts.

[uneven edge]

ok so if i build for example a bunch of storage fluid, and set it up correctly, will that round out the issues to make things closer to balanced?

[median heath]

Why would you store fluid?

[uneven edge]

to round things out to be closer to balanced.... potentially

[median heath]

Fluid buffers cause problems. That's their function.

The only time fluid buffers are helpful is when you're using fluid trains.

[uneven edge]

is a fluid train a bunch of tanks in series?

[wind spade]

if you make more fluids than you need, you're fine. If you make as much as you need, you're fine (as long as you build pipes properly). If you make less, you're in trouble. No buffer or "balancing" can fix this

[median heath]

Literally a train with fluid cars...

[wind spade]

fluid train is train with fluid cars

[uneven edge]

o

[autumn vapor]

Does pre-loading the pipes before you turn shit on make pipes work better?

[median heath]

100% yes

[wind spade]

full pipes happy pipes

[median heath]

You want your fluid production to be refilling the system, not filling it.

[autumn vapor]

and on that note do pipes lose throughput / flow rate over distance or does it do that Wonderful Thing where water is incompressable

[median heath]

They do not.

[autumn vapor]

this makes so much more sense wtf

[median heath]

Just takes the pipe longer to fill.

Because the pipe is longer.

[autumn vapor]

when i was still new at the game my dumb ass was slapping pumps everywhere trying to make it go faster and fill shit better lmfao

[median heath]

I'm assuming your "dumb ass" didn't read the building description of pumps? 😂

[autumn vapor]

absolutely not

[median heath]

I weep for the writers 😦

[autumn vapor]

i've since learned the joys of reading comprehension thankfully

[gloomy palm]

According to SCIM, across the Y-axis of the map, there could be fit around 935 foundations.. however when I measured the map myself using the coordinates, i found the map is 6,800 units high on the y-axis (from Y:-3050 to Y:3750), and a foundation is 8 units wide... that means only 825 foundations fit along that axis, which would be more correct?

[proven valve]

try it

[gloomy palm]

i can't use Smart mod because it's broken on this game version

[proven valve]

then do it manually

[gloomy palm]

no

[autumn vapor]

i think i understand the madness you aspire to now and i applaud your endeavor

[gloomy palm]

xD

[proven valve]

its only like 82 times you use zoop or whatever

[gloomy palm]

😩

i'm gonna get zoop fever if i do that

[autumn vapor]

zoop fever sounds like a 1930's venereal disease

[wintry aurora]

SCIM doesn’t use the same coordinate measurements as ingame.

[autumn vapor]

complicating the narrative further

[wintry aurora]

That’s probably why you have different numbers.

[gloomy palm]

never mind, the SCIM coordinates are the correct ones

i must've made an error while trying to find the coordinates by flying around manually

SCIM shows the actual corners of the map much more exactly

[autumn vapor]

so when can we expect your rendition of the Burj fucking Khalifa then

[gloomy palm]

the AI and SCIM agree exactly now 😮

937.5 foundations

[autumn vapor]

i cant tell if it's more satisfactory to have it as a nice round 7.5 km or 1000 foundations

[gloomy palm]

if it helps at all, 7.5km is derived from 750,000 coordinate point units

"1 meter" in-game is actually 800 coordinate point units.

[autumn vapor]

actually wait if the world were 1000 foundations wide it would be 8 km

that is a nice and wholesome number

where can i go to ask things of the devs

[gloomy palm]

think about it again

[autumn vapor]

No™️

[gloomy palm]

look at what scim is telling you

7.5km, 937.5 foundations

what is the width of a foundation in-game

[median heath]

8m

[autumn vapor]

hey hold on now wait

[gloomy palm]

lol

[autumn vapor]

that would make it 8m wide yeah

we rioting

[gloomy palm]

xD

[autumn vapor]

how dare you make me Do Math

[gloomy palm]

:3

937.5 foundations times 8 meters is 7500 meters

[wintry aurora]

That’s 7.5 km?

[autumn vapor]

yes that is how metric do

[gloomy palm]

then this be a big confuse me

1000 foundations equals 8km yeah

[autumn vapor]

so by current scaling how tall is our pioneer

👀

[median heath]

7'9"

[wintry aurora]

A bit under 6 feet?

Though some people have said that she seems to have lost an inch recently or something.

[gloomy palm]

i can use the debug coordinates on the z axis to get an exact measurement

[wintry aurora]

Dang it autocorrect…….

[gloomy palm]

but wait there's no 3rd person camera angle

[wintry aurora]

Not without mods at least.

[gloomy palm]

also, i have no head

[wintry aurora]

Shadow glitch. I’ve also noticed that the shadow for the alpha spitters head is missing.

The desert/ceratpsid one at least.

[gloomy palm]

#satisfactory-memes message

well now it's a meme

[gloomy palm]

the AI gave me a list of coordinates which I can use to number my corridors accordingly

For example, now I know that the existing corridor I made is fairly close to theoretical corridor #30, which is what I will now rename it to

-300 is the x-axis, can be ignored

[deft lichen]

@gloomy palm are you measuring the map image or the map border?

[gloomy palm]

wut

[deft lichen]

because the boundary does not match the map image at all

[gloomy palm]

hmmmmm

[deft lichen]

there are two boundaries, the inner one deals 5 hp/sec while the outer one instakills, but they seem to intersect on the eastern axis
this can be best observed falling to the void, where damage is dealt at this rate until a sudden instadeath occurs

the outer one isn't mapped

[gloomy palm]

oh i did find the instakill border by accident while in god mode once, it froze all my controls 😅

[deft lichen]

using a fast enough tube cannon can do fun stuff like going so far behind the border that the game just gets completely stuck and has to be closed with alt+f4

[gloomy palm]

ahhh

[gloomy palm]

adjusting for the buildable map coordinates, i lose only 7 corridors

however that does mean that my corridor now is now at #27 instead of #30

I may need way less corridors than this, but just good to have an imaginary grid to align to with some kind of addressing system

I may further adjust this as I go along

😊

[patent dirge]

maturity is realizing the only thing you should be overclocking are miners

[small kayak]

Yeah... Like my 12 fully OC manufacturers for crystal oscillators? Sure😁

[finite sun]

nope
maturity is realizing you can OC everything if it's more convenient

[vocal tundra]

(Except for generators, its never more convenient in that case)

[deft lichen]

it might be for nuclear

[vocal tundra]

That is an exception

[wind spade]

246.2288% 😛

[vocal tundra]

Hi greeny

[vocal tundra]

just uses more powershards tho

for a lower amount

[wind spade]

unlimited shards 🤷‍♂️

[ashen mantle]

Knowledge is knowing you can overclock production machines to be more efficient, wisdom is knowing you can underclock production machines to get nice ratios

[robust vessel]

madness is overclocking biomass burners

[patent dirge]

Absolute Chaos is when you here it in the distance... Hi, I'm Josh.........

[wintry aurora]

That’s an impossibility in vanilla, but… wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a mod.

[median heath]

Useful when unlocking drop pods tbh 🤷‍♂️

[robust vessel]

It is, I've done it many times 😄

[median heath]

Get up to 60 MW with 1 burner.
Build less, unlock faster.

[robust vessel]

Especially the one that requires 420 MW or whatever

[median heath]

Oh, I use Fuel Gens for that and the 200+ on.

[robust vessel]

What, and throw up a packager? You madlad

[median heath]

Bioburner powers Packager which unpackes fuel into OC'd Fuel Gen.

[robust vessel]

Nah, easier to just build 16 biomass or w/e and oc them all, for me

less fussing about

[median heath]

Takes more space your way 🤷‍♂️

[robust vessel]

I'm just building an 6x6 floating platform and then destroying it 🤷 , but you're technically correct

[wintry aurora]

Eh on overclocking biomass burners, most pods need 2 to 4 at most and the materials for getting even the one that needs most power don’t take up much space in inventory.

[robust vessel]

You only need to do it on a few, but the few that you do it's way easier to OC than build 50 burners. Sev's fuel gen idea is valid too. I think most people probably just trail their main factory power to those big pods. I did that on a few playthroughs

[finite sun]

eh, even 420MW one takes like 3 minutes to do with bioburners

dragging your main power for that? ridiculous

the only long part is to drop 1 solid fuel into each burner, and even that isn't that long

[river night]

i would only drag power if it happens to be nearby already

and i usually leave these bothersome ones for a bit later, so its not an impossibility =p

[distant aurora]

Question: if you need say 1.5 machines, is it more power-efficient to run one at 100% and one at 50 or both at 75?

[slim bough]

To me I wound do 2 75 machines

[distant aurora]

yeah ok i actually just did the math and yeah 2 75 machines use less power

1+(50/100)^1.6 > 2*(75/100)^1.6

[digital garden]

I have a fuel power plant. It features 18 fuel generators, all running at full capacity. Each one should produce 150MW of power. Ergo, my max capacity should be 150 X 18 = 2700MW No?

So why does my production and capacity sit at 1350MW?

Derp, missing power line

Ignore me

[vapid gorge]

missing connections for derp moments. Everyone gets them

[digital garden]

I'd be fine with it if only they weren't so frequent...

😉

[vapid gorge]

I feel yeah XD

'why is my giant factory stuttering!?! after 10 minutes fine 1 smelter output not connected

[noble agate]

I’m going to start my maxed nuclear plant pretty soon.. I’m sure there will be about 50 mistakes along the logistics lines, because there’s a lot of them 😛

[limpid remnant]

Succes!

[small rampart]

i have 6 pure iron nodes at my base all mk2 miners how many plates,rods.reinplates, stators, rotors and motors should i make

[median heath]

As many as you want to.

[small rampart]

idk how many plates i would need though

[median heath]

And how would anyone else?

It's your world. Your save.
You are the only one who knows what your goals are.

[small rampart]

im asking what other people would do

but aight

[median heath]

You're going to get answers ranging from 5/min of each to 100/min of each.

You have to make the decision.

[small rampart]

aight

ill just do like 3 constructors of plates and rods then igg

[gray cove]

Yeah, it's a personal decision.

I usually start by doing at least 30 iron ingots/min for each of: screw, rod, plate, RIP, and then 30 copper ingots/min for both cable and wire (and usually for sheets too). Then when I run out, I know I need more of that thing

a lot depends on how fast you expand your infrastructure, and how soon (or if at all) you switch to using alternate recipes for things (e.g. steel screw, pure iron ingot)

[errant sable]

i do 1 pure node for iron plates + rods, 1 pure node for wires and cables, 1 pure node for RIP, 1 pure node for rotors, 1 pure node for concrete

[small rampart]

i shall do that once i get moe power

[tardy gull]

Hey peeps, got a few questions regarding refineries and fuel generation

Ive got 60ppm of Heavy oil residue feeding a refineries making fuel at 40ppm and thats feeding 2 gens at 20ppm input each, but it wont stabilize, gens keep shutting down to lack of fuel, refineries keep stalling doe to lack of residue

[magic island]

fuel gens consume 12/min, so your 2 gens are expecting 24/min and that's why they're stalling

[tardy gull]

im clearly making 60ppm of heavy oil residue with no interruptions tho

[magic island]

oh wait, you're clocking

[tardy gull]

there OCed to 20pm each, 2 genes each asking for 20ppm, totaling 40, which is my output

[magic island]

yeah, my bad

[tardy gull]

the numbers all add up, somethings wrong with the process, cant figure it out

[vapid nest]

Prime the system and see if it stabilizes then

[tardy gull]

ok, so turn off all the gens and flll the pipes first?

[vapid nest]

yes

[tardy gull]

ok will do thx

[vapid nest]

if it doesn't stabilize.. Check again if the refineries really output 40pm, and that the gens are actually working at 20pm

Trust me, I had issues before just because I wasn't looking right

[tardy gull]

oh no doubt, ill double check it all again here now

[magic island]

generators also overclock funny, so what it says on the slider doesn't actually end up being the actual output/multiplier

[tardy gull]

really? is there an actual way to calculate it?

[lunar stag]

Quick question: overclocking power plants: yes or no?

[tardy gull]

with regards to what im doing or in general?

[lunar stag]

In general

I'm maximizing power per unit of fuel

[tardy gull]

i do from time to time yes, if im trying to keep a system from capping out or stalling

usually best to just make more plants tho

[magic island]

OCing any kind of generator preserves the fuel/power ratio. so you get exactly the same result, the only difference is space-saving

[lunar stag]

Cool, overclock all the things then, got it.

Since slugs are technically renewable that sounds like an always thing

[oblique hollow]

just remember that full overclock on generators yields you x 2.0235 times the speed, not x 2.5 times the speed

[snow dove]

does it still consume 2.5x

[oblique hollow]

nah

[snow dove]

huh?

[oblique hollow]

consumption is also x 2.0235 times

[tardy gull]

what is this? what kind of alien math is this?

[snow dove]

then whats the point of saying 2.5x?

[tardy gull]

is this a bug?

[oblique hollow]

clock speed / 100 ^ (1/1.3)

its exponential

not linear

250 / 100 = 2.5
2.5^(1/1.3) = ca. 2.0235

[tardy gull]

that seems unnecessary

[snow dove]

yeah

[tardy gull]

is it only for power generation?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[tardy gull]

ya, time to fix that, this game is complicated enough

[oblique hollow]

and by effect, for fuel consumption of generators

[oblique hollow]

has been argued, nothing has been done

its a feature not a bug btw

[tardy gull]

if it was presented with that math then i would be fine, but its clearly missleading

how could anybody balance anything without this knowledge

[oblique hollow]

yep

[median heath]

Technically fuel consumption is linear with power generated.
It's just that power generated is exponential like all other power.

[oblique hollow]

by not overclocking generators ever

[snow dove]

why would it say 2.5x when it’s actually 2.0235x

[oblique hollow]

because

[median heath]

It's because they used the production machine UI for a large part of the generator UI.
That's the only disconnect.

[oblique hollow]

short answer: they copy-pasted the overclock UI and didnt change it for generators

[snow dove]

so basically, laziness?

[median heath]

On both side though

[oblique hollow]

or "we will redo it some day anyway so why change it now"

[median heath]

Somehow people notice power being exponential on every single machine they have and then somehow think that changes when they go to generators.

[snow dove]

on machines what they are producing follows the multiplier, on generators what they are producing used to follow the multiplier

[oblique hollow]

generators produce power

[snow dove]

yes

[oblique hollow]

so they follow the multiplier

which is exponential

[median heath]

On machines the power component is exponential with the multiplier.
In generators, the power component is also exponential with the multiplier.

[tardy gull]

well that sucks, means OCing fuel generators to compensate for fuel production is kinda out of the question, unless i break out a calculator.....

[median heath]

Why would you need to compensate for fuel production?

[snow dove]

except how the production is done is different

[deft lichen]

overclocked generators burn proportionally more fuel

[median heath]

You knew how much fuel you were making before you made it.
Where is the "compensation" part?

[deft lichen]

you don't magically gain more power from the same fuel

overclocking generators only saves space and generator building materials

[oblique hollow]

it makes them faster, thats it

just like with any overclocked building

put shard in, machine do stuff faster

[tardy gull]

when producing plastic u produce heavy oil, making that into fuel gives X fuel, need to dump that somewhere to keep plastic producing, dump it into gens

[median heath]

Change HOR into Coke.
Sink or burn in Coal Gens.

Package HOR, sink.

Also, you know X fuel, so you know exactly how many gens you need.

[tardy gull]

yes but X does not round out X amount of gens, so i OC to compensate

[median heath]

Or

[tardy gull]

say 20 fuel, but 12 fuel per gen

and i dont want to waste in sink

[median heath]

And hear me out:

Change X to actually round out to an amount of Fuel Gens

[tardy gull]

then i have to back track and change all my plastic manufacturing

[median heath]

Solve the equation before building.

[tardy gull]

you know what would be a better solution, liner growth on OCing gens

[median heath]

Fuck.
No.

[tardy gull]

blasphemies!

[median heath]

Linear power with infinite shards breaks all semblance of balance.

We had this debate when they said they might make power linear.

[tardy gull]

why are shards infinite?

[median heath]

Dogs.

[tardy gull]

ya im not up on that black magic just yet

[oblique hollow]

would work, but 3 shards = 200%

[median heath]

I'm still firmly on "Linear Power is fine as long as they take slugs out of the doggo RNG pool."

[tardy gull]

either way, if the gens output was non linear but the fuel consumption was i think it would be fine, still dump X fuel

[deft lichen]

if anything, they should make it less confusing while not making it unbalanced
make it max out at 200% and have the percentage be the rate, so you still need the same amount of shards as now, but it makes sense

[median heath]

If slugs remain infinite, linear power is unbalanceable.

[deft lichen]

you can still get "linear power" by just calculating the ugly percentage with a formula

in that regard it's unchanged

[tardy gull]

ya, then i gots to math, should be displayed

[deft lichen]

I'm not for making it any easier than it is, really just less confusing

[tardy gull]

it cant be that hard for them to change the code to display the right numbers, thats all we need really

[median heath]

UI showing the proper number in the bigger position fixes the issue 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

it doesn't help that the rate shown in the overclocking UI is erroneous

[tardy gull]

provide me with the correct information and ill figure it out, hide these numbers behind a curtain and i gets mad

I appreciate all the info, thx!

[deft lichen]

Sevrahn another argument, the game should be playable with information provided in-game, relying on external sources (wiki) shouldn't be necessary, and overclocking really struggles in this regard

[oblique hollow]

ingame tutorial is my dream

something akin (cant believe im saying this) to Factoioioio

[median heath]

How is this not covered under "UI showing proper number" ?

[median heath]

You take that back.

[deft lichen]

f l a t g a m e's bite sized tutorials are neat

[oblique hollow]

just a BIT like in 2D factory game

codex is great but it needs more info

[deft lichen]

there is a tutorials tab in the codex so we can hope it will be full by the time 1.0 is out

[oblique hollow]

i wont rest till the Pipe manual is available in the codex

[deft lichen]

it's unexplained, you have no chance of finding the right percentage for a 2x rate in a generator with what the game provides

[deft lichen]

open codex, wiki loads up in the tab

[median heath]

And then you choose to never OC generators 🙂 The way ADA intended.

[deft lichen]

why have a feature if it's so bad it shouldn't be used

[median heath]

I could ask that about so many things people suggest...

[deft lichen]

liquid biofuel after update 4, my beloved

[median heath]

<insert suggestion here> We should totally have THIS thing that completely invalidates any other way people should possibly play the game!

[deft lichen]

people come and suggest to change the entire balance of the game just for it to be fun for them

there's a big difference between people playing the game a certain way and enjoying it vs telling others to play it just like they do

[magic island]

i think the way OC power generators scale is okay in principle but you should get a round number from three shards. thank u

[deft lichen]

what I said pretty much, make the percentage match the rate and the maximum at 200% still needing 3 shards

[oblique hollow]

one shard = 33.33333 %

to torture sev

[median heath]

🖕

[magic island]

haha

[vocal tundra]

Agreed, might finally make people understand why they shouldnt oc power generators

[barren elm]

Is it really that bad of an idea if all your miners/extractors are OCed?

I was under the impression that it saved a miniscule amount of performance

[magic island]

miners are the #1 thing to overclock because they're the only thing where you can't just get more by building more

[median heath]

OC everything you want to other than generators 🙂

[frosty owl]

||Coughs in sushi||

[median heath]

I love sushi in games but I will never eat it irl.
Seems odd 😂

[errant sable]

overclock everything in multiples of pi

[wind spade]

the problem with this is that one shard doesn't give 33.3333%, so it's still non-linear 😦

[snow dove]

first shard gives 36.60129441%, second shard gives 33.83478488%, third shard gives 31.91601286%

given y’all said the right formula earlier

absolutely horrendous decimals

[heavy gust]

@turbid otter yeah but i cannot allign them to be paralel to each other

[barren elm]

Build the straight segments first, then the curved segments

...though double check even the straight segments are parallel, because even snapped rails sometimes go wonky for no good reason

[heavy gust]

good to know

yep that works

[fierce prawn]

are cast screws more efficient than normal screws, or are they just for us lazy ficsit employees?

[magic island]

cast screws are strictly more efficient than default. same iron -> screw ratio, fewer machines and therefore lower power cost

[wind spade]

depends what kind of efficiency are you talking about

[magic island]

that said, steel rods -> default screws become more resource-efficient (albeit not the most power/space efficient), once you have the steel rod recipe

[fierce prawn]

the most screws i can get out of one iron node

[magic island]

using only iron, cast screws will get you the exact same amount as default screws

[fierce prawn]

ok thx

[wind spade]

then no, they are not more efficient

[fierce prawn]

so cast screws does nothing but skip the iron rods step

[magic island]

doesn't change resources consumed, except indirectly via the power efficiency

[wind spade]

steel screws are for power efficiency, steel rod into base screws are for resource efficiency. Cast screws are meh for both

(compared to other options)

[fierce prawn]

so cast screws take more electricity? i thought they take less since it eliminates an entire row of assemblers

[magic island]

it's mainly early on, when you're pre-steel or have more important uses for your steel, that cast screws shine. like, if it's a choice between default or cast and you don't have/want to use steel, cast is strictly better

[wind spade]

no they use less power

[fierce prawn]

so there is literally no reason to use default screws once you have cast

[magic island]

without steel, there is no reason to prefer default over cast

with steel, you may choose to for absolute optimal resource use

[wind spade]

there is literally no reason to use cast 😛

[fierce prawn]

in what situation would default be better than cast if steel is available?

[magic island]

once you have steel, the steel rod recipe is a very efficient way to make rods. then, you might use default to turn those rods into screws

and that ends up being the lowest resource-cost way to make them

[fierce prawn]

ah i see

but it requires excess coal

[wind spade]

eh, coal is abundant

[magic island]

cast screw skipping the middle step is a benefit when you're only using iron, but blocks you from the maximally resource-efficient steel approach

[fierce prawn]

gotcha

you can use the alt coal made from oil refinery to make steel, right?

[wind spade]

and you can also just use screwless recipes

[fierce prawn]

oh right, screws can eventually be eliminated right?