math-and-meta

[sand epoch]

Why would it be a bug to not edit beacons? They dont exist after placement so nothing to edit. Unless hes having problems editing map markers?

[analog loom]

Yes

When you place a beacon, it creates a marker on the map.

So thats what i meant

[cunning kernel]

Yeah, It’s a bug

Just try and ignore it for now, ig

[marble topaz]

They’ve previously mentioned a foresight of removing beacons, so I would t hold my breath on a fix

[radiant lance]

so as someone who's still finishing up tier six (haven't started space elevator stuff yet) and is still a while away from aluminium, what sort of alternate recipes would I want before properly going at aluminium?

[vapid gorge]

There’s a few recipes when you GET alum that I like.
Sloppy alumina, electro scrap and pure ingot. Simplifies the process

[radiant lance]

tyty

[vapid gorge]

Np

[vapid gorge]

Though the base scrap recipe might be more convenient depending on size and location

[solid robin]

Can anyone help me maximize my energy production? Got a list here of how much of everything I make a minute, and wanted to plan out how I can maximize my MW's while still having plenty left over to source into my base for component production

Basically going to be tearing down my entire base so I can rebuild one that is much more optimized and made automatic

Iron: 22 Impure, 9 Normal, 4 Pure - 3,360/min
Copper: 3 Impure, 8 Normal, 1 Pure - 1,380/min
Limestone: 6 Impure, 9 Normal, 5 Pure - 2,640/min
Coal (mk3 250%): 4 Normal, 3 Pure - 4,740/min
Oil 250%: 4 Pure - 2,400/min
Caterium (mk3 250%): 3 Pure - 2,340/min
Sulfur (mk3 250%): 2 Normal - 1200/min
Bauxite: 1 Impure, 3 Normal, 4 Pure - 1,380/min
Quartz: 2 Normal, 2 Pure - 720/min
Uranium (mk3 250%): 2 Normal - 1200/min

Not entirely sure if turbofuel is any good, my buddy seems to really want to go into it though

For example, I can extract 2,400 crude oil per minute, but then that begs the question, how much of that should I dedicate to generating power, and how much should I put into making rubber and plastic?

Same goes for coal, or even compacted coal. My buddy seems to really love compacted coal, but I feel like we are really limited with compacted coal due to the amount of sulfur it requires.

[wind spade]

It's pretty much impossible to answer this question. You should instead plan from end product. e.g. you want rotors, so you check what buildings are built from rotors, estimate how often you'll be building them and set up that much production (for start 5-15/min is usually enough). You can always add more later if you see you're running out often.

[solid robin]

I see. We are nearly done with tier 8, we only have to complete the milestones for Nuclear Power and Particle Enrichment, then complete the space elevator, but before we do those three we want to completely re-vamp our factory as up until this point we have basically been manually crafting most high-end stuff. Like, we have separate lines of constructors or assemblers to craft things like computers, supercomputers, etc. We just take what we need to craft the subcomponents, drop them in storage containers routed into the machines, then do the same except into a manufacturer or etc. We now want everything to be completely automated, everything from rods to stators and motors, heavy modular frames, automated wiring, etc, and if possible, routed into one large central storage building.

Is it possible to create a sorting belt? For example, you have 15 different items on one conveyor, but then it goes into smart splitters or whatnot and gets sorted into their own invidividual containers

[vapid gorge]

Pick oil/fuel and coal for power far away from your base to take them out of the equation

[vapid gorge]

Yeah but unless it’s just stuff being sent to storage it’ll get complicated. We’re you wanting to use sorting belts for mass production?

[solid robin]

Hmmmm, probably something more like, lets say I have my factory, and produces every item in the game automatically by itself, but everything that is overflow gets sent to a central storage building, and when those storages get full, everything overflow from there gets sink'd

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah that’s easy

[wind spade]

Why would a factory overflow?

The factory produces to storage

[vapid gorge]

It’s not ridiculous to have a dedicated storage before it gets to the end for more basic parts

[solid robin]

Well, usually what we do is lets say we have this
Iron ore -> storage -> smelter -> storage -> constructor (then whatever you craft after that, basically, every single time a new part is made, like an iron rod or screws, we have a storage or two so that we can get it to our own inventories if we ever need it, gets pretty annoying trying to traverse your own factory to get a specific item, hence the central storage system.)

[wind spade]

It's much better to have a dedicated factory that makes things for storage

(Also storing ore or ingots is useless)

[solid robin]

It's just been there for a while, we've been doing it since the start and haven't touched it for a while.

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah don’t store ore and ingots

[solid robin]

It's a very messy operation we have right now, which is why I want to rebuild the thing. Basically, we have 6 little mini-factories each separated rather than 1 big mega factory with everything in it.

For example, we do have 4 manufacturer's setup but we have to hand-feed 4 storages which go into splitters and feed the manufacturers for it

Hell I could probably just upload the save file onto here and y'all can see what we have and laugh your asses off lmfao

[vapid gorge]

I’d argue it gets really complicated to set up a pure storage set up. Since a ton of things require tons of steps.

And even doing that, let’s say you’re making hmf, but want to keep some of the basic parts for storage, then you’re just funneling parts like you would have in the main factory

[vapid gorge]

The main thing for a rebuild is just plan you machine and logistics layout well. You’ll get there

[solid robin]

Yeah, just having a lot of problem figuring out how to get everything to a 1:1 while still having an overflow central storage building

I never play these types of games, gotta have lots of creativity, and I don't lmfao

Super fun tho

[wind spade]

the point is that you can rework any factory without affecting other items

if all you have is one connected mess, then reworking parts of that factory or increasing production of a single item is pain

modular factories are just way easier to manage (at the cost of slightly more planning and slightly longer build time)

[solid robin]

Assuming I have oil extractors on the top of the map using all of the impure, normal, and pure nodes

which is 1,380 crude oil/minute

and we overclock all of the extractors to 250% which will make our oil/minute go to 3,450

how much power can I produce from this?

Assuming we use the site only for power

[wind spade]

you can use online tools for those questions 😛

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Mmf0k60AKq45vewf9iEV

9200 fuel is 766.66 gens, which equals to 115 GW of power (though at that point I'd just go nuclear)

[solid robin]

Hmmmmm

Here might be a better question

Approximately how many GW of power should I be aiming for to have plenty for massive upgrade/revamp for my factory and in preparation for Nuclear Power/last Space Elevator upgrade?

[wind spade]

that depends on how much you'll build. Technically you can reach stage 4 with one machine of each type, but that would be painfully slow 😛 you can also build tons of machines to reach it in a few minutes/hours, but then it would probably be overbuilt

there's no good answer to this, so I'd just do "build some power and expand later if it's needed"

[vapid gorge]

You can also kick start a nuclear build with like 1 geothermal and a bunch of power storage

many many ways to go about it and depends on how big you want your nuclear to be right?

[solid robin]

I FORGOT ABOUT GEOTHERMAL

💀

[vapid gorge]

Geothermal is mostly good for a kick start..

I used it to charge 15GW/h of power storage to kick start my fuel station

[wind spade]

(just fyi it's GWh not GW/h)

[vapid gorge]

You're not my science dad, you can't correct my SI units 😛

[dense laurel]

uh AcTuAlLy

[wind spade]

you're adopted, I'm your real science dad

[frosty owl]

I'm adopted, you're my real science, dad

[vapid nest]

Built Geothermal Gens for the first time and accidentally built them in opposite phases

[wind spade]

you don't build them in opposite phases. The phases are out of sync by default

[deft lichen]

greeny apparently the phase depends on when the generator was built, not the geyser

so if you build two equal-purity generators halfway through each other's cycle, they will cancel the fluctuation out

[wind spade]

interesting, I was pretty sure I saw "we changed phases of geo gens so that they are no longer in sync" in patch notes 🤔

[deft lichen]

they used to be globally synced yeah

[wind spade]

yeah but I thought they just gave each node some kind of offset

[royal mirage]

My goal is to produce the maximum renewable power possible while also having the most complex part being made at 60ppm and every available resource being used. This seems to fit that bill but I’m making smart plating and concrete to fulfill the “every resource being used” am I missing a byproduct from somewhere? Or a recipe I could be using that I’m not?

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TbhYZgBvfW86s4HCFs9S

[small kayak]

Seems like a plan for a great weekend or two... Or MONTHS!
But it's cool if you get it done, please post the progress👍

I wanted to ask if the is anything that makes pure iron ingots viable instead of just grabbing the next node.
Seems like I found a reason, even nothing I'd see myself doing anytime soon 😁

[royal mirage]

What do you mean? Pure iron ingots is the most productive way to make ingots. Please explain what you mean by grabbing the next node?

[small kayak]

As there are so many iron nodes on the map I wonder if many players ever come close to need more iron ingots than the normal recipe can deliver. The alt uses way more power and space...

70380 iron ingots/m vs 130706 with pure is a difference, sure... but 2346 smelters vs 2010 refineries is a big difference too

[wintry aurora]

Space isn't really an issue, you've got at least a kilometer of sky.

[small kayak]

space is no real obstacle, true. I just wonder if I ever will build enough stuff to need anywhere close to 70k ingots and thus just go the smelter route.

IF these will somehow be too less I always can rebuilt with pure.
Saving time now and maybe loose some in the looong run is a win in my book

[vague bridge]

odd request

I have 3 t5 belts each with 600.
I need to split them to equal amounts across 8 outputs.

Anyone got a solid 3:8 split setup I could mimic?

[ionic galleon]

There was that madlad who was making a million screws per minute...

[small kayak]

Oh my, that's a lot!

[ionic galleon]

It really, really is

[wind spade]

I mean I'd probably underclock the target machines and make 9 outputs instead

[small kayak]

3:6, overflows merge to the other 2?

[vague bridge]

that would heavily complicate the rest of the setup

3:6 might work

[wind spade]

well you should plan logistics before planning next part of the setup 🤷‍♂️

[vague bridge]

I know.. 😦

foolish mistake on my part.

[small kayak]

logistics is optional, hail the spaget! 😁

[vague bridge]

I could go and get another line, but it's a long long long way away...

[small kayak]

train? drone?

[vague bridge]

other side of the map. it's sulfur. and I'm using everything on this side (north) already

[ionic galleon]

Spaget is still logistics. Just, painful logistics

(like spend-whatever is still budget, just not /good/ budget)

[small kayak]

well, yeah... not pleasing to the eye, but often easier to make. As long as it's hidden away I don't really care

[fierce cypress]

@vague bridge if you really want to do a load balancer route the way id go is split each 600 line into 3 (9x 200/m) and then for the 9th 200 line split it into 8 (div by 2, then div by 2 again, then div by 2 again) lines of 25, then merge each of the 8 200 lines into each of the 8 25 lines to get 8x 225 lines.

[small kayak]

Although I learn to handle logistics better the longer I play and try to avoid to make more pasta than necessary

[vague bridge]

thats actually pretty handy! thnx @fierce cypress

[wind spade]

people heavily underestimate how easier it makes building if you plan/build logistics before next part of a factory

if I have 3 outputs of previous part of a factory, I plan next part of a factory with number of inputs in multiples of 3

or ideally direct input

[fierce cypress]

or alternatively just make a huge manifolding mess

[wind spade]

this is about full belts

obviously the split to machines is manifold

but e.g. if you have 5 belts of 700

I want next factory to accept 5 or 10 or 15 belts

[fierce cypress]

fair

[wind spade]

otherwise I'll end up figuring out how to make 5:13 balancer or something

and given that you can always underclock to match number of machines to given number, it's pretty easy to do so

[vague bridge]

@fierce cypress that worked perfect 🙂 thnx

[fierce cypress]

very neat

[vague bridge]

spaghetti avoided thankfully

[calm shell]

I've been relying on manifolds too much lately, your beautiful load balancing setup has made me see the light

[wintry aurora]

Load balancers take up a lot of space though.

[calm shell]

*a lot of space, in our hearts

[vapid gorge]

My main issue with LB is they are completely inflexible. If any aspect of the system changes you have to rip it up and re do it

They also dont particularly lend themselves to larger set ups

[calm shell]

Thats why it's preferable to create a sub-floor for logistics

they're low-d balancers, not high-balancers

[wintry aurora]

Still pretty important for nuclear recycling setups where you really want to make sure it's balanced and not get uneven distribution.

low-d?

high balancers, what re you talking about?

[vapid gorge]

For me its less that space and more that I'm going to largely be using ALL the throughput on a mk5 belt.... I don't want to make a million mini belts

And you can have even output from a manifold anyway for visuals

[calm shell]

load, = low'd, basement floor is low

sorry, was a very bad pun

[wintry aurora]

Ok

[vapid gorge]

All the best puns are bad

If you don't make several people die from groaning are you even punning bro?

[vapid gorge]

So I haven't gotten to the waste recycling set up portion yet - mostly I'm just going to very slightly over feed the materials over what waste I'm making and go from there.

Though I'm not sure I should be that worried, I've got a lot of continuous flow systems up for days w/o issues.

Maybe I'll just make an emergency underground train bunker that might catch over flow waste.

Have a display mk1 lift that will never have anything on it and if it does thats the 'oh shit' button

[tropic hawk]

I really wish vanilla had a power equivalent of a diode...

[deft lichen]

Power doesn't flow in a direction

It's just a sum of all generators and a sum of all consumers

[small kayak]

Yeah, but a diode that only let power flow in one direction could be useful in a few ways. I.e. to only charge storage without it being used if a fuse breaks

[frosty owl]

I don't see the appeal of that. Sure, you wouldn't have to worry about having to manually disconnect the storages from the grid if you want to keep them full, but then you need to manually delete/rebuild/edit the diode anytime you want ti actually use the storages

[small kayak]

Or have a bypass switch

[wind spade]

that's almost equal to just having power switch without the diode 🤷‍♂️

or you could have the power storages hooked to geothermal

[ionic galleon]

My use case would be grid -> diode -> storage -> critical infrastructure

[mint sedge]

What exactly does the diode do in the above description exactly?

I personally like how the goes doesn't hold you hand too much. It's avoiding situations like this ("making the game too easy") which will mean we probably won't see logic blocks and stuff

If you're wanting a dedicated power source for critical infrastructure, geothermal is the main solution, though it is obviously limited in capacity

[tropic hawk]

Diodes IRL limit power flow in one direction, stopping backflow, which depending on the circuit is quite important. In here, it would make emergency power storage easier, as well as SCRAM systems, where you could have it isolated, but the instant something starts to work it demands too much power from the generator on the circuit, a fuse breaks and it flows 'downstream' to the rest of the plant causing it to trip, shutting it down

[ionic galleon]

Bonus if we could have something like a Zener diode, but essentially sending excess power to some power sink. As opposed to just magically deleting that excess power, which IRL grid operators would /love/ to be able to do...

[cunning kernel]

I've got 120 iron coming in to spare, and I need to make 740 screws. I doubt it's possible, but I wanted to check. (As I'm unsure as to what the exact maths would be)

1. Should I go try and find another iron node(s) to boost that number

2. If Yes, How much should I aim to increase the number by?

3. If it's enough (No), What recipe to make screws should I use? I've got bolted and normal at the moment, But I can go look for more hard drives.

[spring cedar]

the calculator linked in #welcome could answer all those questions.
use the satisfactorytools one. (has a better UI imo)

[cunning kernel]

O

Oh damn I didnt realise satisfactorytools offered a calculator

[strong dirge]

There's a great cheatsheet too with alll the ratios,

tried to link it, but it got deleted.

[spring cedar]

rude bot 😛

[strong dirge]

Search "/user/oldshavingfoam" on reddit and you'll fiond it.

[cunning kernel]

Just throw it into my DMs if you want to

[strong dirge]

Sent.

[cunning kernel]

Thanking you

[cunning kernel]

Also thank you for this information, it's actually really neat

[tropic hawk]

SCIM is useful for map shenanigans, SFTools for calculating, and the wiki for... Being a wiki

[main shuttle]

ok, the wiki is 100% lying about stingers' leap being 10m. it seems like it's closer to double that

[wintry aurora]

That’s probably the old number, and they have quite the horizontal reach too.

[wintry aurora]

I went to measure it as I was curious and apparently the damn thing respawned.

[wintry aurora]

I checked and what I experienced is that it leapt horizontially somewhere around 80-100m.

[fierce ruin]

They have serious horizontal reach. Ive had a hard time escaping one sometimes even with jetpack and slide jumping

its more obvious with archnophobia mode because the cat leap sound effect is super loud

[sand epoch]

Wiki usually not showing experimental values

Ive watched giant spiders jump up out of sub caves when they see me.. reason 1 for carpet bombing caves with nukes now.

Time your throw right with a forward run and you can get some great distance in short caves

[main shuttle]

please tell me someone's already come up with some kind of explosive cluster shotgun

[wintry aurora]

Launching nobelisks via crossbow (or something similar, like a handheld catapult or something)?

[deft lichen]

with arachnophobia mode enabled, I had them teleport(?) on top of 50 m tall towers, I assume it was leaping

and that was in update 3

[noble agate]

In U5 you can use hoverpack and the spiders won’t leap up there. That won’t probably work in U6 anymore, unfortunately…

[marsh latch]

Using all the pure recipies and wet concrete
Do you guys think I'm able to automate
-adaptive control units
-heavy modular frames
-computers
-modular engines
all here?
I also got a train delivering 480 oil

I do think I need to get more limestone but would 890 iron Ingots be enough for the phase 3 stuff

[deft lichen]

you are able to produce anything, it depends how much you want to/expect

[marsh latch]

atleast 1 per minute if that's possible

[deft lichen]

well put the inputs in here and fiddle with the outputs https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

[marsh latch]

Well true but I was hoping I could get help with that hah

[oblique hollow]

that website is as simple as it gets

you enter your target, set the recipes you want

and it gives you a factory which it thinks is most resource efficient

[near zenith]

has the fluid bug been fixed? where machines lost some of their banked fluids and couldn't run at the proper 600 m3 flow?

[deft lichen]

pipes and belts lose throughput due to FPS lag

[near zenith]

i thought this one was more like, on log in any fluids in a machine deleted itself?

this is a 9 month old half memory

[deft lichen]

oh, the 5m3 per input deletion was fixed

[near zenith]

yaaaas

[oblique hollow]

mk 2 pipe is a different issue

[wind spade]

I mean you can automate anything anywhere, it depends on how much you want of which 😛

[marsh latch]

True!

but id say a minimum of 1 per min is my goal

and i used the site and it seems i am able to get the 4 things at 1 per min so yay!

[wind spade]

neither is technically true.
Belts lose throughput always, just fps is one of the parameters that makes it worse (but it doesn't happen because of that)
Pipes don't lose throughput, it's just that fluid mechanics make it harder to make it go full throughput if you don't loop the pipe or take other measures (not 100% sure about this, McGalleon would have to tell more, but I think it's not related to fps)

[finite sun]

yeah, low fps makes problems evident much sooner

[versed violet]

meta question: does the music box in U6 scare off creatures?

[stark bronze]

if creatures flee when damaged and boombox deals damage then it fits your description

[tropic hawk]

I didn't know that pipes did too, thought that was an unrelated bug

[versed violet]

was thinking more of non-damaging deterrent

[wintry aurora]

@versed violet I haven't tested if it really is non-damaging, but it is damaging to the flying crabs at least.

[versed violet]

Wait, so it damages creatures nearby?

[wintry aurora]

I haven't attempted to kill things only using the boombox turbo yet, so, I don't actually know if it's just flying crab specific.

[versed violet]

ooh, let me know if you find out. This started as joke question, but now thinking if they would actually implement it, because thats... fun.

[stark bronze]

it hurts every creature confirmed

[robust mirage]

It does damage i just killed a hog with it

[stark bronze]

pretty effective when repelling beans

[versed violet]

yay!

[robust mirage]

but it takes some time

[spring cedar]

now we need to find the actual damage numbers

[versed violet]

devs think of everything

[robust mirage]

ill test how many hits it takes to kill a hog

just need to find one again

[spring cedar]

and I wonder if it keeps stingers from jumping at you, if they scurry away for a little bit when boosted

[stark bronze]

wait i couldnt kill hatchers with it

[versed violet]

don't hatchers regenarte hp?

[stark bronze]

never heard of it
they do regenerate crabs

[robust mirage]

20 hits

to kill a hog

[spring cedar]

and hogs have 20 hp

[finite sun]

yeah, it does 1 damage as expected

[versed violet]

1 point of sonic damage sounds about right

good thing pioneers have built in earmuffs. imagine how LOUD it sounds in reality

[frosty owl]

Sounds about right

[finite sun]

not so loud, it would've taken 100 hits to kill you

and anyways you'd probably regen faster

[versed violet]

1% hearing loss is a serious thing!

[robust mirage]

btw what are the drawbacks of wearing both bladerunners and a jetpack or are there any?

[finite sun]

why there should be drawbacks?

[versed violet]

can't wear hoverpak

[spring cedar]

its a good combo actually, blade runner > slide > jump > boost to remain airborne at blade runner speed

[robust mirage]

i dont know where exactly but in one of the announcement videos they said that it would be nerfed to not make it too overpowered

[tropic hawk]

100 blasts of sound to kill a human being is REALLY loud

[robust mirage]

but i dont feel like anything's different so i wanted to ask

[finite sun]

nah, it wasn't anything more than a "we might rebalance the equipment later" statement

the "later" part being most important

[versed violet]

anyone tried what happens if you use boombox on gas plants?

[frosty owl]

Still waiting for their "later" on nuclear recipes update (beacon-related) 🙄

[finite sun]

they're specifically immune to everything that's not nobelisks, so probably nothing would happen

[finite sun]

it was said that it's not happening in U6, so not sure why you're waiting on it
full removal of beacons is probably U7 stuff
unless they find a use for them

[frosty owl]

At first it seemed like they were going to deal with it ASAP (which would make sense given the delicate recipes involved), then it was "we might know something by U6", and finally "nothing in U6". Given all my projects include beacon-nuclear, I'm still waiting to know what happens with it/what substitutes it

[versed violet]

they probably wont do anything that unrepeirably screws people builds. so probably either plain removal or replace with ron items of similar value

[finite sun]

eh
I remember watching a dev stream and Snutt saying something along the line of "beacons are being phased out, but we know about recipes and recipes will stay until at least the next update, so you won't have to rebuild your factories"

it was never described as something that might happen in U6

[frosty owl]

I don't see how that's not "unrepeirably screwing". I mean, any change in the recipe is distructive, unless the new recipe just happens to use the same items in lower quantities

[finite sun]

it was also said in one stream (a long while ago) that CSS would probably try to do as much rebalancing as they could in one batch

so that backwards incompatibility wouldn't happen more than strictly needed

[frosty owl]

I hoped we would have known something by U6. Either "your nuclear factories will need fixing in a few weeks/months/updates" or "we won't be doing it now, but the new recipes will use/be..."

[median heath]

Might involve a new part they aren't ready to unveil yet.

[finite sun]

your factories will need total rebuilding somewhere between now and 1.0

that's absolutely certain

[frosty owl]

I'm willing to invest X hours in a factory I'll have to remake for 1.0
But I don't feel like sinking time in a project that will be destroyed "sometime, between now and 1.0, maybe a few weeks, maybe an year"

[finite sun]

you should embrace the "I'm playing games for fun" approach

as in, stop caring about content you produce by playing it

the content is a side-effect

[frosty owl]

Time is precious sometimes and planning help allotting it to the more fun activities. Lack of planning leads to an update stopping my projects halfway ande burning out.
I don't get why you're bringing content into this, I don't think it's hard to imagine how discomforting it is to see months of planning go down the drain because you realize you phisically don't have time to finish a project before an update changes the rules and makes it useless

[finite sun]

well, your pretty factory buildings don't actually have value, that's what I'm saying

the hours you spend making them - do have value, on the other hand

but after everything is done and you don't wish to play this save any more - it's only good for taking screenshots, and that's not much

[frosty owl]

It has "value" as long as I'm having fun making/using it.
The rules changing before I can even complete the project just brings the wind out of my sails.
I don't see much value in something I haven't even completed to a satisfactory point (which is usually having a factory run at least once)

And that's not even mentioning using said factory to expand production...

[finite sun]

anyway, it's a practical approach when playing early access games, as by their nature they often make you lose progress

[frosty owl]

What is a practical approach?

[vapid gorge]

is this based on rebalanced recipes?

[finite sun]

not particularly caring about your saves

[frosty owl]

On "we will rebalance nuclear recipes sometime in the future" yes

[median heath]

They are going to touch all recipes in the future. This has been stated.

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah look you can participate in my recipe mod to keep them 😛

[versed violet]

Given the active playerbase with large saves, I assume devs will take extra care to not completely destroy all player progress.

[finite sun]

CSS attempts at maintaining backwards compatibility are actually so stellar that I think they could actually do less of it (because it prevents them from doing small rebalances, for instance)

[frosty owl]

So "don't get too invested in the game you love since it's EA". A very bitter takeaway

[finite sun]

nah, "saves" are not the same as "being invested"

[frosty owl]

I need saves to play the game...

[finite sun]

I can be extremely invested in a game that I have to restart innumerable amount of times

you're still gathering experience, skills, emotions, thoughts, etc

those are not reset with your progress

[frosty owl]

Sure thing. You can enjoy playing the way you do, that is great.
I don't care much about the experience as I can get that anytime I play the game. What I'm complaining about is that not having a time line for important announced changes prevents me from planning my projects appropriately, limiting the scope of what I do to "unsatisfactorily" small or generic productions, which I find little exitment in.

For context, I'm well over the thousand hour mark, I've done plenty of replays by now

[vapid gorge]

There is a point though where you are building in a continuous project and no long getting experience and skill from the basics

[finite sun]

naturally
but "basics" can be repeated extremely fast once you've done it enough

like, even without speedrunning and rushing in particular it still doesn't take me more than about 6h to get to last tiers

[frosty owl]

Would love to have a "continuous project" involving nuclear in the next months, too bad I'm fairly sure I wouldn't (maybe, probably) be able to finish "in time" 🤷‍♂️

[finite sun]

while first time I was playing about 30 or 40h pre-trains only

[vapid gorge]

Mod 😛

[vapid gorge]

Yeeessss but I wouldn't be able to get to that point now for example w/o a 200 hours of rebuilding a factory

[finite sun]

to do what exactly?

fancy architecture? you can start doing it very early. Fancy train systems? 8h to get there. Fancy drone airports? 10h.

now, if you want specifically to do megaprojects spanning the entire world - then sure, you would need a lot of preparation hours

but megaprojects in early access is an inherently risky thing

personally, I built a lot of interesting things in pretty short-term saves because I simply focused on that
like one of those was a fancy power station and it was a coal power station build without even unlocking all the things from shop

[vapid gorge]

Fancy interconnected architecture that relies on the positioning of dozens of other points around it

Logistics moving 10k pm from point to point in a way that is tidy and appealing

And it's only really learning if it's new

[finite sun]

oh, train systems can be started extremely quickly
as long as you don't wait to first create a demand for them

that's actually most of my experience with trains - in "real" games I prefer other transports but in several saves I played a lot with train lines just for the sake of trying to build neat train lines

[royal mirage]

Ok, so I'm asking on here and I know this has a little bit to do w mods but as far as satisfactory tools site goes, does it's maximums for ores take into account how many shards are available to make since there's not enough to fully oc every miner?1

as in what are it's maximums based on?

[finite sun]

there's quite certainly enough to OC every miner
there's not that much nodes compared to the amount of slugs
even discounting the fact that slugs are technically endless

[royal mirage]

really?

[finite sun]

yes
there's lots of slugs in the world

[median heath]

How is over 1200 shards not enough to clock every miner?
Also, tame a dog, shards are infinite.

[royal mirage]

ur right about there being enough slugs for miners... I was definitely mistaken

[analog loom]

Need to know if there are any better ways of balancing this out. don't have room to move the machines. Left 3 constructors are 100% iron rods, right three are 75% iron rods, 3 input lifts (center) are each carrying 30 iron ingots. sending excess ingots out the right side

[small kayak]

Manifold

[analog loom]

don’t have room to move the machines otherwise i would manifold, i don’t wish to expand this building any larger

[small kayak]

A manifold don't require to move the machines. Maybe I don't understand what you want to achieve

[analog loom]

I don’t have room to place the mergers and splitters required for a manifold without moving the machines or expanding the foundations 🙂

[finite sun]

so what are you planning to do?
there are no means to balance anything without placing splitters and mergers
if you can't place splitters and mergers, then... ?

and manifold uses the minimal amount of splitters/mergers (not much more than 1 per machine), so if you can't place that - how are you going to place anything else?

[analog loom]

The input lifts prevent me from merging and splitting in a way that it would balance out fully in a manifold. I just need to know if the math with the splitters and mergers i currently have works out and if i can condense it any further

[small kayak]

Merge the 3 belts underneath

What mk belts you can build?

[analog loom]

Ye thats what i kept thinking but my smelters are close to the walls so it’d require some ceiling spaghetti lol

[small kayak]

ceiling belts are real😁

[analog loom]

Thanks for all the ideas, i gave myself area restrictions for this particular factory that are quite annoying to describe lol

[small kayak]

something like the 5x5 challange? cool

[analog loom]

Bigger than that but with grander ideas in the long run 🙂

[small kayak]

as long as you have fun it's a win👍

[analog loom]

👌

[radiant lance]

hiya yall so I'm gonna unlock drones soon, and I'd like to know what the specific use cases for them are, since producing batteries is such a big resource hog and complicated process, i'd like to know when it's feasible to use them and when they're better to use than trains

obv there's the fact that they're really good for radioactive items and transport over extreme distance but other than that I'm drawing blanks

[median heath]

Batteries shouldn't be that much of a hog tbh.
Where are they straining your resources?

[radiant lance]

I haven't made any yet teehee, haven't got aeronautical engineering yet

[median heath]

Use the Classic Battery recipe.

[radiant lance]

i am writing down on my theoretical notepad

is it a good idea to make a bunch in one place and then transport by train/trucks to drone hubs?

[median heath]

Or transport them by drone to drone hubs?

[radiant lance]

true . . . . .

[median heath]

Drones are unique in that they can drop-off and pick-up at the same time.

Like each train platform or truck station can do one or the other.
Drones can do both.

[radiant lance]

that plus the smaller building footprint over train stations is definitely good

[median heath]

That's one of the reasons truck stations stay viable.

[radiant lance]

trucks my I Really Wish Were Better

[median heath]

Trucks suck. Use Explorers.

Objectively the best trucking vehicle.

[radiant lance]

continuing to write down on my very real notepad

i do wish trucks had better uses :(

[median heath]

Get a reMarkable 2 -- never need a notepad again 🙂

[radiant lance]

they're so big and cool

[radiant lance]

the notepad is my brain

[median heath]

Truck stations are extremely useful.
Trucks just need better physics.

[radiant lance]

yeahhhhhh I hate so much how if ur driving on a road it's literally worse than offroading

[median heath]

That's why you don't drive on roads.

Hannah spent hundreds of hours handcrafting you dirt roads that go literally everywhere on the map.

No assembly required.

[ionic galleon]

Yeah but some of us /really/ suck at navigation

[radiant lance]

yeaaa but sometimes the terrain is too mean to use without a road, reaching the gold coast from the rocky desert has a bunch of rlly annoying dunes

[median heath]

Furthering my theory that 90%+ of all truck-related issues are "user error"

[median heath]

Define "annoying dune" when driving an Explorer 😉

[radiant lance]

oh man those dunes are even worse on explorers lmao, they go so fast they get like 2 seconds of airtime on each dune and it slows your travel to a crawl there

[median heath]

What are you shipping from the Islands to the RD?

[radiant lance]

RD is my main base with a small truck hub, I'm shipping turbofuel from the islands to there

[median heath]

Oh...

Oh my...

You're unironically making turbofuel?

[radiant lance]

10.5k mw <:)

I had sulfer and coal nodes alrdy being harvested that were being barely used

[median heath]

Have you heard of our lord and saviour, Diluted Fuel?

[radiant lance]

oh no I use both

[median heath]

I feel like that is worse...

Diluted gets you to nuclear.
Turbo's only practical use is making bullets.

[radiant lance]

diluted + turbo gives crazy fuel gen numbers tho

420 turbofuel with only 4.5 used up per minute by one gen is bonkers

[oblique hollow]

crazy fuel gen numbers is bad

why would i place 500 fuel gens willingly?

[fierce cypress]

Because your crippling satisfactory addiction is telling you to

[oblique hollow]

my crippling addiction tells me "if you think you need 100 fuel gens you need nuclear instead"

[marsh gate]

Okay, can someone please help me to understand 'basic' fluid math, and would make it in a formula that's easy to digest for my simple mind?
Some time ago I said I was going to set up a Fuel Generator factory on the west coast, using the two Pure and Normal nodes. Going by the math a friend did for their Fuel Generator factory (which their approach was to 'yolo it'), I would be generating 1,300m3 Crude Oil. However I don't know how much that is per minute.
As the Refinery throws a curve ball by showing (with normal clock speed), it takes in 6m3 Crude Oil (at 60/min).

My friend, has 13 Refineries (probably more, I dunno which ones they used for which Oil Extractors as it was a spaghettified mess of Mk2 pipes) that are all at 250% clock speed.
These, still take in 6m3 Crude Oil (but at 100/min).

...Wha??

[median heath]

Oil nodes are in per minute for you already.

So a pure oil node at 250% clock is giving you 600/min

If you're getting a combined total of 1300/min, you'll need 3 pipes to move that, and you'll need to do the math on how many Refs that works out to.

Also the amount of "yolo" and "probably" in that explanation would be why it doesn't work as expected.

[marsh gate]

The way they did it, they had Pure nodes at 145.8333% Clock Speed (350m3), and Normal Oil Extractors at 300m3/min(250% Clock Speed).

[median heath]

"145.8333% Clock Speed"
This hurts my soul.

These, still take in 6m3 Crude Oil (but at 100/min)

This is the machine telling you how much it takes per cycle which is 6, and given the time of each cycle it will consume 100/min

[marsh gate]

I'm just trying to figure out how many Refineries I would need to support 1,300m3.

Plus they had an issue of producing too much Fuel (according to them)...

[median heath]

If you have them clocked to consume 100/min each, then you need 13.

If you have to much fuel and nothing to do with it, probably should have planned ahead for that.

[marsh gate]

Not really possible to plan ahead when you're not a rocket scientist.

[median heath]

I am unsure how either of those are related in any way.

[marsh gate]

Aka needing a big brain to understand the math and to know this.

[median heath]

The math is basic arithmetic.
You're not even touching Algebra.

[marsh gate]

Fair enough. Ok, let's start from the top again. So you say for liquids, the 'm3' is the same as per min?

For the Refineries taking 100 Oil/min, I still don't fully understand the 6m3.

[median heath]

Cycle.

Every CYCLE of the machine it takes 6 oil and makes 4 fuel + 3 resin.

At 100% clock speed it does 10 CYCLES every minute.
So it needs 60/min

So if you adjust the clock speed, you adjust the number of CYCLES, which adjusts the consumption/min.

The game does not in any way operate in terms of "per minute". Everything is done in cycles.

We simply convert into per minute terms because it is simpler to think about it that way on larger scales.

[hardy phoenix]

Buncha nurds

💀

[marsh gate]

So, normally it would take 6m3 (what would be 6 Oil/min), for a total of 60 Oil/min, when it completes its cycles?

[median heath]

It takes exactly 6m3 every 6 seconds.

Which is 60m3/min

[marsh gate]

So an m3 is pretty much per min, correct?

[median heath]

No.

m3 is just saying "hey this is a fluid"

Like 6 Screws per minute is just 6/min

6 Oil per min is also 6/min

the m3 is just telling you it's a fluid/pipe input

[marsh gate]

Ok, I think I got it. Thank you.

[median heath]

👍

[small badger]

m3 is cubed meters, which is a unit representing a 1 meter cube filled with liquid. it's a volume

[river night]

just picture a pile of 1000 1L milk cartons, thats a m3 😛

[ionic galleon]

And that's why I like measuring some of my larger setups in megalitres (ML). Like for instance the 22ML fuel buffer that feeds my power gens, or the 7.5ML fuel buffer that feeds the plastic/rubber stage of my computer factory.

[oblique hollow]

on that note: the codex will show the number of fluid per cycle in thousands. thats because its not asking for m3, its asking for Liters

[thick plank]

Wait im dumb

[cinder silo]

No point me completing the reply I had typed out, he deleted it 🤷‍♂️

[thick plank]

Really dumb

Sry

[cinder silo]

I was too slow taking screenshots 😛

[thick plank]

Yeah nah im just dumb

1l is 1m3

1l is 1dm3

[cinder silo]

A cubic metre is exactly that though. a litre is far less in volume.

[thick plank]

Yeah

[cinder silo]

Trying to diagnose peoples crashes and it's proving more challenging than I expected.

[thin tusk]

is that good

[thick plank]

Well i dont really see the reason to actually care about the unit anyways. Like honestly, you can just as well just treat it exactly the same as any other production, just replacing conveyors with pipes (lf course youll have to keep in mind that sometimes pipes do dumb stuff)

[thick plank]

Crashes are only a way of ficsit to test their engeneers. A good engeneer never gives up and just restarts the game

[cinder silo]

My current state of coupons, I have no use left for them so in the machine they stay.

[thick plank]

Very noice

[drowsy bough]

What do you sink

[cinder silo]

Everything (literally), From the nuclear plant, plutonium rods are sunk, from the warehouse, all 40 storage bins are full so the sum total of my entire factory goes to the sink.

[copper quail]

So.. what have they done with the Train Signals now?

[median heath]

They remain unchanged.

[wintry aurora]

They didn't change in U6?

[median heath]

Check the top pin in #old-questions-and-help

[wintry aurora]

They were changed in u5 though if you're returning from a longer period.

[copper quail]

Well.. now i have some of the path signals complaining..

I started in U5

[wintry aurora]

Ok

[copper quail]

Kinda new

[median heath]

What's the error?

[copper quail]

hang on..

Path Block cannot contain Stations

[wintry aurora]

Well, nothing changed in U6

[copper quail]

never seen this before.. and the rail, signals etc is unchanged

[wintry aurora]

Wasn't that one put in U5?

[median heath]

Put a block signal prior to the station.

[wintry aurora]

Just remove the block signal. I think the error is that you can't have a block signal after the station.

[copper quail]

Which ever Signal comes last is giving error it seems like..

[median heath]

Why would you put one after a station?

[wintry aurora]

I like putting a path signal after a station.

[median heath]

That makes sense.

You said "block signal after the station"

Which does not.

[wintry aurora]

I said that's the error, or I believe it is.

[copper quail]

They should really simplify the Signaling.. its way to uncomprehensive xD

[wintry aurora]

Been a while.

[median heath]

To which I said "Why would you put one after a station?"

[median heath]

???
It's simple as fuck. What do you mean?

[copper quail]

Are you a train operator?

[wintry aurora]

Not really, the rules are pretty simple.

[median heath]

No, lol.

Just a logical thinker.

[wintry aurora]

Check pins in #old-questions-and-help there's a guide with signal info in there.

[copper quail]

The only signal that makes logic to me is the Block Signal, Which blocks Trains

The Pathing signal i really don't figure

[median heath]

It doesn't block trains.. but ok..

[wintry aurora]

You're thinking it wrong.

[cinder silo]

Thought a block signal notes an actual block of track, not to block trains.

[median heath]

Also, it's perfectly fine to never use path signals.

[wintry aurora]

^ That's accurate.

[median heath]

Signals don't block trains, lol.

[copper quail]

If i put up a block signal when there is a train on these blocks the block signal is in,, another train will not enter..

[cinder silo]

That's what I just said 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Seriously, read the top pin in #old-questions-and-help

[copper quail]

Block signals will check if any part of the True Block is occupied and prevent entry if true.

[cinder silo]

If I recall (bear in mind I don't use trains much) the block is reserved for a train that's on it so you don't get one of these .

[copper quail]

Yeah...

It wont allow another new train into the block 🙂

[river night]

its actually sort of sad how easy it is to prevent crashes if you start using any signals, no fun crashes to figure out .. instead trains might just get stuck or have bad throughput

[spring cedar]

thankfully if they get stuck it does generate an error message and an alert along the lines of "Been at signal too long, an error may have occurred"

[wintry aurora]

I had plenty of crashes, sometimes from trains moving while placing signals and one or two times where I put a signal too close to another track at an intersection, causing the hitboxes to contact.

[wild radish]

I've had 1 or 2 crashed trains when I put tracks to close vertically at intersections

[median heath]

Yeah, the system doesn't handle vertical overlaps very well.

[upbeat pollen]

Anyone know why the target MW and the actual MW produced aren't the same?

am very confused

[vocal tundra]

Because you underclocked ya generator

Never under/overclock ya gens

[rotund hatch]

trying to make myself a spreadsheet for satisfactory but i need a formula for automaticly calculating the resources extracted, basicly if i put in 1-2 or 3 in miner mark i want it to automaticly say how much im getting base on overclock %, but i have no idea how to do this

anyone able to help me?

[median heath]

Power's relationship to clock speed is exponential. Always has been.

[upbeat pollen]

ah okay thanks

[median heath]

Google "Satisfactory Tools"

[deft lichen]

Target MW lies

[median heath]

@upbeat pollen basically just don't change clock speeds on generators.
Problem solved.

[deft lichen]

Sev it is necessary sometimes

[median heath]

?

[rotund hatch]

thats not what i want tho

[upbeat pollen]

I've set it to 36MW and it produces 50mw now so fixed i guess

thanks :)

[deft lichen]

If one wishes all fuel to be burned and not back up to stop refineries using byproducts

[cinder silo]

If you're clocking generators you need to do some maths because 250% on them only actually gets you 200% and change.

[median heath]

Overflow hook + packager + sink.

[deft lichen]

There are multiple solutions to the problem yes

1: exact clock speed
2: overflow to packager sink
3: overflow to dead end generator

[median heath]

How do you do "exact" in the exponential world of power vs. clock speed? 🙂

[deft lichen]

Use a formula to get the percentage

[median heath]

Good luck finding one that is within the 4 decimal limit...

[cinder silo]

106.5% gets you a power buildings 105% , can work off that.

[vocal tundra]

Never overclock ya gens, ever (nuclear ill allow)

[deft lichen]

Just set it slightly higher and blame geothermal for any possible power graph anomalies

[median heath]

Imprecision 😡

[deft lichen]

I'm not trying to convince you it's superior, just that it's an option you can just choose not to do

[spring cedar]

Sounds like a nested IF function or a lookup.

[rotund hatch]

im brainfarting too much to figure it out tho

[cinder silo]

Just hold your nose and push on 😛

[rotund hatch]

[median heath]

Math game will involve math 🙂

[spring cedar]

Usually I break nested functions into individual true/false statement across multiple cells. Then at the end combine them all.

[deft lichen]

The only thing that changes between miner marks is the extraction factor which is 1x, 2x or 4x

So if the miner mark is 3, you change the factor to 4

Then put together a formula that uses this factor

[spring cedar]

You may also have to use an AND function within the nested IFs, since the output depends on both miner mk, and node purity

[rotund hatch]

oooh didnt think of that

[spring cedar]

I would usually remove AND nesting by creating a lookup key, use the 2 values concatenated together as a key.

[rotund hatch]

as a non native english person

you lost me there lol

[cinder silo]

You seem to have better english than many here in England 👍

[rotund hatch]

^^

[spring cedar]

example key, using miner Mk and purity

[vocal tundra]

True most people cannot speak properly here

[spring cedar]

example using key + adding quality to main table

formula in my "Resources" cell F4 : F20:

=IFERROR(INDEX($J$9:$J$17,(MATCH(CONCATENATE(D4,C4),$I$9:$I$17,0)))*E4,"")

[rotund hatch]

im basicly making myself a spreadsheet to share between me and my buddy to see wich nodes we have used and how much resources we get from it, and if its stil possible to get more out of it

[spring cedar]

updated formula to start in cell *N14, (like your sheet) keep in mind you need the key still for the lookup to work.

=IFERROR(INDEX($R$19:$R$27,(MATCH(CONCATENATE(L14,K14),$Q$19:$Q$27,0)))*M14,"")

[rotund hatch]

hmm i get an error

[spring cedar]

you need the column which designates node quality, insert between your J and K columns

[rotund hatch]

oooh they are all pure

for example for limestone im making 3 different ones

1 pure 1 normal and 1 impure, so 3 screenshots with all different locations marked

[spring cedar]

ahh so no need for quality lookup if its all assumed to be one quality

[rotund hatch]

yeah

so below this pure map wil be a normal map and below that a impure map

and i plan to do that for all ores lol

[spring cedar]

try this, no key needed then

=IFERROR(INDEX($Q$13:$Q$15,(MATCH(K14,$P$13:$P$15,0)))*L14,"")

you may have to convert your overclock cells to be percentage for the multiplication to work right

[rotund hatch]

stil gives an error

tried with both just 100 and with percentage

[spring cedar]

click on the cell and show me the formula

[spring cedar]

your percentages, are those using text %, or the formatting?

[rotund hatch]

i clicked the % icon in the top left

so im assuming formatting

[spring cedar]

if you click on the formula itself, does it highlight the correct fields, maybe i had a reference off

[rotund hatch]

ah it does not

[spring cedar]

thankfully you can just drag those boxes over the correct locations

[rotund hatch]

nothing lights up tho

[spring cedar]

unfortunatly I dont know then. formula works on my end.
not sure if you need to just tweak the ranges in the function to align with your data, or if there is another factor not letting you use the function.

[rotund hatch]

its on the second page of this spreadsheet, dunno if that has anything to do with it

[spring cedar]

shouldn't, it only refers to the current sheet.

[rotund hatch]

oh well thanks for the help!

[spring cedar]

does more choo make faster choo?
if so, how many choo to make fastest choo, or is there no limit?

[median heath]

I believe the wiki page on trains was recently updated.
It's all about MW needed to reach max speed.

More choo = faster choo, yes. But at a point more choo = same choo.

[marsh gate]

So I'm trying to spread 1300 Oil through 13 Refineries to make the standard Fuel recipe.
Somewhere I got a number that I would need 3 pipes that would push 400 (and something), but I didn't write down this number and I forgot how I did the math.

[median heath]

You need 3 mk2's to move 1300.
How you then disseminate the 1300 between the 13 Refs is completely up to you.

[spring cedar]

3 output pipes full of fuel using SFT, but they are under 400 and something

without alts

not sure since you said only 13 refineries

[median heath]

He overclocked them all.

The math isn't precise, but it is close enough.

[marsh gate]

Yeah, normally I would need about 22 Refineries. But with them OC'd the way I have them, I only need 13.

I just need to think of how to evenly split this 1300 Oil three ways into 13 Refineries.

[median heath]

Pause

Stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

[deft lichen]

Utilize the fact that fluids flow both ways in pipes

[spring cedar]

wouldn't they split themselves, pipe flow in both directions

[median heath]

Exactly.
Hence, stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

[marsh gate]

Wouldn't valves help with this?

Force the flow to go in one direction.

[median heath]

You're still trying to fit pipes into terms of belts.
Stop

[wintry aurora]

They still have to split three ways at minimum.

[marsh gate]

I could've sworn you said m3 is like items/min but in fluid form. Now it's not?

[median heath]

You're moving 1300, that means you need 3 pipes.
But beyond that you need to consider the system as a whole and make sure no single part is trying to push 600/min or more.

[median heath]

On belts, items go where you tell them.
In pipes, fluid moves where it can.

Pipes can also slosh and have backflow/backpressure - which never happens on belts.

[spring cedar]

would it be as simple as one input on either end and the third in the middle, to prevent any segment exceeding 600?

[median heath]

m3/min is like items/min in terms of unit volume.
That does not mean pipes work like belts.

So do no think about pipes in terms of belts.

[spring cedar]

reminds me of the initial coal gen and water challenge we all learn through

[median heath]

You can think of an individual belt as an individual belt.
You need to think of pipes as a system.

Example: you loop pipe manifolds because it makes them work better.
You would never do this to belt manifolds.

Because pipes do not work like belts.

[wintry aurora]

You could loop it back, but it's pointless for belts.

[marsh gate]

I'm never going to get this then. I just don't understand fluids. It's too damn complicated. No wonder my friend decided to yolo it.
And this is why I'm stuck on Tier 6.

I'm trying desperately but apparently I keep getting it wrong.

[median heath]

Start with systems smaller than 1300.

[wintry aurora]

Have you read the pipe manual?

And yea, starting with simpler systems would be better.

[median heath]

(like Coal Power)

That the entire purpose of Coal Power.
Teaching you fluid basics.

[odd zenith]

help with computers

[oblique hollow]

are you familiar with the basic coal generator setup of 3 to 8?

and how, even though its 360 water, you can put all the generators on one pipeline if you spread the input up?

[oblique hollow]

precisely this

the trick is that, if you mentally move along all the pipe connections and check how much is flowing, no pipe is exceeding 300

[vapid gorge]

The other way to approach this - you need at least three pipes to handle 1300 pm right? So break it down into three separate manifolds and clock the machines that use each pipe to consume the right amount

It sounds like you’re having a hard time dealing with it as 1 large manifold with pipes coming in at different points?

So just make smaller ones 🙂

[oblique hollow]

big manifolds can easily always be turned into multiple smaller ones

[vapid gorge]

There’s a type of reaction in some folk to make all of one item type being moved a single system. It’s not wrong or impossible but is often harder to think about and logic out if you don’t have a really solid grasp on the mechanics and maths

I also find it’s easier to troubleshoot systems broken down into smaller chunks

[oblique hollow]

the urge to use things to full capacity is a baffling thing and must be stopped before you fall for it

also i guess the urge to turn everything into one big thing i guess

[vapid gorge]

I mean I kinda get it? But after having looked at what that would take I ran

[vapid gorge]

Same with the ‘I’ll bring all the iron ore to one place and process / send it from there’

I mean I had that urge - but then thought about it and how much of a mess it’d be to design that

[marsh gate]

I'm back with an actual items/min question (not fluids this time).
So I'm trying to make Photovoltaic Cells, and one of the recipes requires 60/min Quartz Crystal.

Now with this screenshot, this is where I want to get the 60/min from. However this is the same belt that makes Cheap Silica (at 100% clock speed).
How am I going to pull off this magic trick to move 60/min off this belt, plus maintain the 11.25/min for Silica?

[median heath]

When did they add Photovoltaic Cells to the game?

[marsh gate]

It's a Refined Power recipe.

[median heath]

Then ask about it in the modding discord.

[shadow prairie]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @median heath

[wintry aurora]

It’s a math question though.

[median heath]

It's mod-based question though.

[wintry aurora]

Sounds like a problem a splitter would solve, as long as the total is under belt capacity and the miner is producing enough, it’s not an issue.

[ripe mango]

Is there an article/tutorial on optimizing for T1 Assembler products? Have 3x60 iron ore inputs and want to work out the best configuration for outputs.

[oblique hollow]

you do the inverse

you start by planning how much output you want

and then work out the needed input for that

[wind spade]

it really depends what do you want to optimise towards, what recipes you have available and what products do you want and in which quantity. You can always find more nodes

[thick plank]

Im doing that in my current world. And i have to say: its not that messy, its rather simple. Its just massive and takes a while. But its really not messy

[vapid gorge]

It depends on future work.
Without knowing what your end product is or where all the iron is going after you have to make your rail and other logistics really flexible with the overflows.
You probably also need to leave space for more iron production later so extra space and logistics.

And then if you have to rework things … bleh too much

Then I guess i have to ask by all do you mean 5k pm? 10? 30?

[thick plank]

Like im of course not doing it from the beginning. What im doing is i have exactly one product (ie iron ingots) and i have a grid layed over the map with 3 wide roads and 15x15 sized halls. On top of those roads i have the train system. And then I put aside a certain ammount of halls for exactly one product (ie pure iron ingots).

Im currently still in the expanding phase so i havnt started off really hard, im currently using all iron of graslands and surroundings on mk2 minders as well as all the copper in the graslands on mk2. But thats mainly cause i dont have enough energy. But im currently working on a nuclear plant and when i have that i already have at least 4 halls set aside for pure iron, ill see how many i need

Sry for incoherent mess

Had to lay it down for a minute mutliple times

[vapid gorge]

Nah, it was legible dw.

I’d build it up on location as much as possible sending out iron ingots everywhere as needed is going to be a time

[lean igloo]

Does anyone know of a way I can take 1 line if 5/m and make it 1 line of 2/m and 1 line of 3/m

[wintry aurora]

Just split and manifold.

[oblique hollow]

split it in 6, merge one belt back to input > you now have a 1 to 5 splitter
what do to after is up to you

[sinful knoll]

how do you determine when a "build" would become steady state? i just built 8 coal plant with 120 coal input, when should i check back to make sure its all good

[frosty owl]

There's 2 ways.

1. Checking for a flat power production or power draw
2. Making sure all machines are in the state they're supposed to be when running at 100%: each machine has its input buffers full and outputs empty

[sinful knoll]

:ty:

[mint sedge]

You can speed the process up by handloading the inputs, or underclocking the machines to 1% or 10% so that they fill faster

[worn saffron]

do mergers slow down the flow rate? I have 16 constructors making 15 rods/minute, feeding via Mk1 belts onto an Mk3 belt. 16*15=240 so the Mk3 belt should be more than fine, but yet it seems to stop every 3s or so. Or is it just a visual bug?

[dense jackal]

How r u merging it

[worn saffron]

with mergers, feeding onto the Mk3 belt manifold.

[dense jackal]

U h h

It should be fine ig

Idrk I’m not good at visualizing things

Can I get a screenshot

[ripe mango]

Rotors, reinforced iron plates, and modular frames really.

[dense jackal]

Just visual probably

[worn saffron]

red is the mk3 belt manifold, green are mk1 belts

[ripe mango]

While still having access to loose screws, iron plates, and iron rods.

[dense jackal]

P sure it’s visual

[ripe mango]

I have that with my perfectly optimised iron smelters. You can check that it's working fine by momentarily cutting the inputs until there's no backup output then connecting it all again.

[worn saffron]

cool, thank you

[wind spade]

that still answers just one question out of 3+

[ripe mango]

I'm not sure on the other 2, just optimised outputs based on available inputs (without overclocking) I guess. I can get 100% efficiency on plates, rods, and screws - it's just the next step of rotors, reinforced plates, and frames that's tripping me up.

[wind spade]

you still need to know quantity you want to produce 🤷

and you can ignore future steps for now

just produce enough of materials to be able to build buildings

and if some next factory needs e.g. reinforced plates, you can just produce reinforced plates in that factory

[ripe mango]

Do you though? Given fixed inputs, shouldn't that determine your most efficient outputs?

[wind spade]

"most efficient outputs"?

that means you need to rank if it's better to produce e.g. one reinforced plate or one modular frame

and what is the ratio between them

[ripe mango]

Well you can't produce modular frames without reinforced plates, and you know the inputs of all of them.

[wind spade]

fixed inputs change what is the most efficient way to produce something, because the optimisation needs to take the limits into account

not to mention that "best" is subjective

and "most efficient" needs to define what kind of efficiency are you talking about

[ripe mango]

Efficiency is actually a stat in this game, is it not? As in, the rate you can produce items. That's the efficiency I want to optimise around. No bottlenecks, and no delays.

[wind spade]

efficiency in the game is % of time the machine is running

[ripe mango]

Hence, fixed inputs should have a "most efficient" output path.

[wind spade]

game doesn't have any other efficiency

[ripe mango]

Yes, exactly what I've been saying. Is there an article on going from 100% efficiency rods/plates/screws to the next step?

[wind spade]

point is that this efficiency is irrelevant

since it's basically just "if you need 8.4 machines, build 8.4 machines"

but there are other ways to optimise your builds - have smallest amount of machines or use smallest amount of input

hence why one of the questions was "what do you want to optimise towards"

[finite sun]

there are only 3 notable uses for all the stuff you're making

1. buildings
2. inputs for more complex parts
3. space phases

so your needs are more or less dictated exactly by that

e.g. it's always a good idea to make (and store) good amounts of concrete, simply because it's widely used for foundations

for buildings, the most common case of spending lots of particular parts is power generation
because you will likely need dozen (or a few dozens) of coal gens and many dozens of fuel gens, and so you will need proper amount of parts to build them

[ripe mango]

So in essence, it would be easier to have mono-purpose factories, rather than mono-input?

[finite sun]

oh yes, that's always easier

especially given that you will be rebuilding most of your early production either way

[ripe mango]

OK, think I'm grokking that a bit better now.

I don't have them yet, but do smart splitters allow you to adjust rates? Or just the kind of product to split?

[finite sun]

no, just the kinds
it's a good idea to avoid messing too much with rates using splitters/mergers
change machine rates instead

[vapid gorge]

What tier you on?

[ripe mango]

2, just need Steel stuff to get to 3 now.

[vapid gorge]

Ah well there's a couple different lines of thought but it kinda depends on what you want - are you trying for perfectly flowing factories really early on?

or just want vaguely clean systems that will tier you up with less work?

[ripe mango]

I had a perfect efficiency rods/plates/screws factory initially, then I wanted to go to the next step of using assemblers to consume those products for rotors/reinforced plates/modular frames. Then it all got a bit messy.

[vapid gorge]

Ok so I would argue since factory needs change so much that having perfectly efficient set ups is counter productive to quickly going up the tiers.

So it depends what's important for you - getting all the tech or putting work into temporary factories

[finite sun]

I'd advocate for always going for T5/6 first as a priority
and only then think really hard about production chains

[ripe mango]

Cool, makes sense. I might just leave my rods/plates/screws factory in place then build mono-purpose factories based on their outputs or other nodes.

[finite sun]

because it's at T5/6 you're first dealing with large-scale production

early stuffs are not a good representation

[vapid gorge]

Well what I've found to just get the job done is to dedicate about 1 pure node's worth of raw material to each basic item. Give yourself to expand smelters and constructors to deal with better belts and miners. And then just split the belts going places anyway you like.

The idea is that even if you're not feeding enough parts per minute eventually your storage will get full and the parts will move to where they need to go

[ripe mango]

Thanks for the pointers. Glad to know I don't really need to worry about bottlenecks and whatnot for now. I worked out manifold storage too, so overflow will be fine.

[vapid gorge]

And have a container off to the side for each part so yo ucan use them

[marsh gate]

So I need to start making Power Storage units, but I dunno how many I'll truly need. I know this is subjective, but I just don't know how to start.
One idea is to take the maximum number of power I can make and divide it in half, and make that many in Power Storage units. Yet I also know I might not be able to just go with that, that I also need to focus on the maximum power draw of everything running at once.
I don't exactly have a lot of space to put a huge Power Storage farm like I've seen from screenshots.

[vast jungle]

I would build up enough power production for your maximum base anyways... and then add "some" capacitors for emergencies.
If you want to have time to solve a "powerplant outage" with your storage units, its more a question about how much time you want to have...

but you also should have a plan how to restart power without any battery if necessary.

[marsh gate]

Well that restart power plan is already in my head, and primed to go incase I ever need to do it.

[vast jungle]

its fun to construct a powerplant that can restart without external help

[marsh gate]

Right now I have 5,000MW being produced. I know that's not a lot but that's the best I can do. But I dunno if that's going to get me to do Stage 3 of the Space Station and unlock Tier 7/8.
I'm averaging around 950-1,200MW usage at most times.

[vast jungle]

I had a similar situation in my last game... and then I accidently sent some coal via train into the sulfur input of my TF powerplant... and after it run through all its storage it (of course) blocked... that was a mess 😉

install a smart-splitter based filter to all powerplant inputs and a awesome sink to prevent this mess!

[marsh gate]

My coal power plant gets its coal directly via belts. That's been running for years with no problem.

[vast jungle]

turbofuel is more complicated because you need more types of input... so (most times) at least one or two is coming from far away.

[marsh gate]

Just making sure my math isn't skewed.
So I'm going to need 2500 Versatile Framework. I need 12 Motors per cycle.
...Is that 30 THOUSAND Motors I'm calculating of needing when this is all said and done? I'm just making sure I didn't typo.

[fierce cypress]

motors arent used to make vers framework?

[marsh gate]

Wait. Hold on.

[fierce cypress]

but your math of 12*2500 = 30000 is correct

[marsh gate]

So, I need 30 THOUSAND Steel Beams instead. What fun.

[fierce cypress]

numbers will stack up in this game dont worry about total number, worry about i/m

[vast jungle]

I would suggest using SF-Tools to check your numbers

[fierce cypress]

tools is a great tool indeed

[marsh gate]

I'm going by manually semi-automating this with what I have for personal storage in my Central Storage, like I did to unlock Tier 5/6.

[fierce cypress]

no, you'll need 15,000

[vast jungle]

you need 6 times as many steel beams as versatile frameworks

[fierce cypress]

my advice isnt to rush tiers, automate everything then continue, your only real limitation is power

[vast jungle]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=y0iDJv3VNVToffRlmfnb

[marsh gate]

I've been stuck on Tier 6 for almost two years. I kind of want to not be anymore.

[fierce cypress]

or this one to see the totals (which arent important)

[fierce cypress]

well seeing as steel is an issue for you im going to assume you havent automated much stuff from previous tiers, which are necessary for later ones

[vast jungle]

but the truth also depends on alternate recipes you might have

[fierce cypress]

alts for project assembly parts are kinda meh imo

[wind spade]

Depends, sone of them save resources

[limpid remnant]

But if you automate do you make much more for storage or precise and make again and again because I don't know what is better

[cinder silo]

Depends on the material, some products like concrete and to a lesser degree silica I make sure I have 70-100+ per minute for stores, but other pieces like radio control units only 2.5 to stores, it's really dependant on how much you're liable to burn when building.

[limpid remnant]

Ooh okay

And if you make another automated factory and need the item that you store in your storage how do you get the items then

[radiant lance]

a good logistics network™️

the gold standard is that once you have trains all automated items can be sent off to other factories that need those automated items

[limpid remnant]

Yeah but how to you do it with the items/minute and not to many or less

And how so you make a good logistics network

[radiant lance]

the answer to not too many is backpressure

[limpid remnant]

What is a backpressure

[radiant lance]

as an example, if you have, say, steel beams being made at 50/min sent to storage, you can also have a smart splitter that sends them to a train station, that train station sends beams to another factory that needs 20/m

at first it will send as many as it can, but eventually that factory will fill up because it's getting more than 20/m

[limpid remnant]

Ooh

[radiant lance]

and then it won't be able to send more than 20/m, so then the other 30/m will continue going to storage

[limpid remnant]

So you stack

[radiant lance]

that's backpressure

[limpid remnant]

So do you need to do that or not

[mint sedge]

overflow splitters solve/simply a number of issues like that

[limpid remnant]

?

[vapid gorge]

are you asking how you split items down a belt?

[limpid remnant]

Yes with the right amount items/minute

[thick plank]

You should always do overflow.

It just works. And is far simpler

[limpid remnant]

Ooh okay

Then I go to make something

[radiant lance]

yeah a noob trap is to think you always need to perfectly split stuff but in reality that is nearly impossible to do, especially at scale, so the real answer is to let things overflow and fill, at which point they'll perfectly balance themselves

otherwise have fun making heavy modular frame alts

[limpid remnant]

Okay thx for all the info

[radiant lance]

hey yall i'm racking my brain over this, any idea what's causing my train to be unable to go to this station?

all the signals beforehand are okay, for some reason this junction is giving a 'Signals are making the next stop unreachable' error

okay nvm crisis averted, apparently the train had managed to get onto the wrong track the moment I switched something up so it just needed a manual fix

[deft lichen]

Tip: make the block where the tracks split off to the left a path block

[radiant lance]

it is 👍

[deft lichen]

Ah, didn't notice due to the signal being recolored

[radiant lance]

yeye

[thick terrace]

Ayo

[vapid gorge]

This is a nice video about overflow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwguwhizdlE

[median heath]

He needs to do one about sushi 😭

[frosty owl]

I think he covered sushi manifolds (and basic sushi suggestions) in one ore more videos

Maybe unsurprisingly though, he didn't seem to want to cover single-input sushi too

[median heath]

Wonder if he did sushi manifolds properly 😦

[frosty owl]

I can't give an opinion, not having watched such videos 😅

I still somewhat stubbornly refuse to watch SF content covering stuff I haven't extensively "played around" with already

[cinder silo]

I'm gradually making clips to demonstrate some of the shenanigans involved in certain approaches, such as building wall/ceiling power sockets on the floor and how to quickly clip through the ground.

Example clip (popping through the ground)

[deft lichen]

such clipping was possible since hypertubes were added and earlier with locomotives 😄

[cinder silo]

I intend to create video shorts of things to act as guides, little to no voice over, but paced just so to demonstrate in a short time.

[deft lichen]

they could be put together on the wiki if you'd like

[wintry aurora]

I thought hypertubes existed before trains?

[mystic moon]

Nope

They were added with pipes if I remember right

U3

[deft lichen]

trains were U2, hypertubes & pipes U3

[cinder silo]

Cool, I don't want to make videos huge, just enough to demonstrate certain mechanics and work arounds like an animated version of the screenshot here.

[wintry aurora]

Oh, I arrived after the pipes update.

[mystic moon]

Still feels so recent

Weird to think how long ago that was in the ea

[cinder silo]

I started playing the instant satisfactory hit steam.

[deft lichen]

2.5 years since U3 released already

[cloud swan]

is there a best design for least footprint on smelter setups?

[median heath]

@vapid gorge your moment to shine has come.

[finite sun]

eh, all the "least footprints" are simply equal to 1 machine size + a bit more space for input and output
then you just place everything in a column

how practical this is - is another question

[median heath]

Also least footprint is going to involve overclocking to reduce machine count 🤷‍♂️

[vocal tundra]

That long?

Geez

[cinder silo]

Smallest footprint for a smelter setup I could come up with.

[dense jackal]

Stackin

[dense jackal]

Where can watch video

👁👁👁

[cinder silo]

Not done yet, most are short enough I'll be able to drop them directly in here when people need help.

[summer fox]

for trains is it reasonable to just divide your income rate on a station by how many items are being transported? ie 500 per minute for 2 items is 250 per minute for each item?

[dense jackal]

I am excited

[cinder silo]

Btw you can use a hover pack underwater 😛

[cloud swan]

what are the best recipes for catherium, iron and copper ingots for yield quantity?

[median heath]

Pure Caterium always.

Pure Copper is slightly higher yield than Copper Alloy, but Copper Alloy saves a shit ton of space.

Pure Iron is a lower return than Iron Alloy, but Iron Alloy costs Copper.

[oblique hollow]

change in mind over copper alloy?

your stance used to be "not too great"

[deft lichen]

I mostly agree with Sevrahn here

[median heath]

Fair.
I'm just trying to being more "list all options accurately"

I personally don't use it, but the purpose of using Alloy isn't lost on me.

[oblique hollow]

just as the intention was with the wiki summaries. great to see the same thought here

[median heath]

Someone needs to update the Aluminium Scrap page.

[oblique hollow]

me i guess lol

[deft lichen]

There's a plan to go over the summaries in general to make them easier to understand for new players

[oblique hollow]

well theres the tables and then my written ones

[deft lichen]

Yeah, as discussed, to create the written ones for all tables

[median heath]

Aluminium one just shows only Base + Electrode and doesn't show Sloppy + Electrode.

So some people believe the baux conversion for Instant is uncontested best. 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

Mine I know isn't the best, I only went for simplicity, sloppy + pure.

Me feeding six groups of four refineries with 6x 780s when those groups wanted 800 wasn't my finest move either, I had to retrofit in a 7th belt to make up for both throughput loss AND my shitty maths.

[median heath]

Sloppy + Pure isn't a proper way of saying it?

[cinder silo]

🤷‍♂️ 24 refineries doing sloppy alumina, 144 smelters running pure aluminium recipe, how else would I say it?

[median heath]

Alumina does not go into Smelters.
You're missing a step.

[cinder silo]

On purpose, the scrap isn't an alt recipe, thought that was a given 🤷‍♂️ that's just another 24 refineries.

[median heath]

Using the base Scrap recipe? 😭😭😭

[cinder silo]

Well there is a shit ton of coal nearby.

[oblique hollow]

page edited

tbh, electrode's deal is kinda crap

11.11% more scrap?

[median heath]

I'm expecting it to say "if you need a wiki to figure out aluminiun, uninstall" 😉

[oblique hollow]

no, i dont make fun of needing help

[median heath]

😭

[median heath]

Elaborate?

[oblique hollow]

base scrap: 150% conversion
electrode: 166.666% conversion
difference: 11.11111%

well...

111%

but its an effective difference of 11.111%

150 * 1.11111111 = 166.6666666

roughly 10% is a weak deal

[wintry aurora]

Aren't the two equivalent? Instant and electrode that is.

[oblique hollow]

this is base scrap and electrode

[wintry aurora]

Why are you comparing only those?

[oblique hollow]

because scrap makes the difference, we know sloppy makes more solution per bauxite

[median heath]

So it's 11% more.
You get to use Coke instead of Coal.

[wintry aurora]

Why not compare all three scrap against each other is what I'm saying.

[median heath]

Building count difference?

[median heath]

Because the answer to which is best is already solved.
So we're looking at other stuff just to look at it.

[wintry aurora]

What's the instant vs default ratio?

[oblique hollow]

i just did, but sloppy makes the difference

[wintry aurora]

The conversion ratio I mean.

[oblique hollow]

instant baux to scrap - 1:2
default + sloppy - 1:1.8
electrode + sloppy - 1:2

1.8 to 2? 11.11%

[wintry aurora]

So, they're both a 11.111% change?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[wintry aurora]

Not sure the argument then. :/

[oblique hollow]

argument: why use either

instant i can get behind

compact build, great speed

but the extra work for electrode? just for 11.11% more compared to default?

besides sloppy + default has a nice 1 to 1 ratio

[median heath]

(not attempting to be annoying with this repeat)

Like I have always said, it comes down to which black rock you want to use.
If you prefer to use Coke, that's why you'd choose Sloppy + Electrode over Instant.

[oblique hollow]

honestly i might never use electrode again because its either default + sloppy or instant for me now

coal is abundant

[median heath]

If bauxite is not a limiting factor for you, 100% agree with that conclusion.

[wind spade]

coke is too 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

not gonna bother doing oil

more refineries

id rather use oil for coated cable

[median heath]

Does Sulfuric Acid require the aluminium cans or regular to package?

[wintry aurora]

Coated cable though? I don't see the point outside of maybe space elevator parts.

[oblique hollow]

i think plastic cans

[wintry aurora]

Regular, despite what you might otherwise think.

[median heath]

I'm thinking of a truck loop I might use if I do Instant.

[oblique hollow]

aye plastic ones

[wintry aurora]

Although sulfuric acid might attack aluminium, I dunno.

[oblique hollow]

it does

[wind spade]

coated is decent tho 😛

[oblique hollow]

reacts strongly with aluminum

releases hydrogen in the process

aluminum bottles would likely burst under the ensuing pressure

[median heath]

Quickwire Cable ftw.

[wintry aurora]

Well, if you have plenty of caterium around, sure.

[median heath]

Used Fused QW.
We have a thread on "best ways to make Cable" and iirc QW Cable is basically tied for first place.

[vapid gorge]

The big bit I like is baing able to move 980 oil rather than... 6k coal?

[vapid gorge]

for the least footprint? Looking at @cinder silo and his narrow smelters XD

[median heath]

You're the one who does all the clipping and makes super-compact smelters.

[vapid gorge]

I clip a bit_ to get the corners around. Though I do have a non clippy thing... hmm one sec

[vapid gorge]

wait why not insulated cable?

[median heath]

Sloppy Coated Cable when?

[vapid gorge]

We already have Zago around.

[median heath]

She likes Sloppy Coated Computers.

[vapid gorge]

Sloppy Coated Everything

[median heath]

Sloppy Adhered Cable 😉

[vocal tundra]

Im not even gonna ask

[vapid gorge]

this might also do you for 'compact' smelters. Don't have to put them in an arc

[median heath]

It hurts to look at... but you have a talent.

[vapid gorge]

Some might think there's both criticism and praise in that but it's all praise for me

And I don't think I had to severely clip things for that one

Its possible w/o Area Actions there would have to be 1 or 2m more between the floors

[mortal inlet]

how many people use main busses here?

ive always used dispersed as most of the recipes and deposits allow for local production

[median heath]

Some

[mortal inlet]

then ship it off when i get trains of course

[median heath]

Many people don't really know what a main bus is.
Or.. think they do.

[mortal inlet]

i have barely any idea too, only learnt after playing factorio

[median heath]

Always with the F words 😦

[mortal inlet]

😔

[fierce ruin]

any1 have the numbers for a max uranium nuclear power plant

[median heath]

Plug it into Tools.

[fierce ruin]

i forgot all the 1s i used

[fierce ruin]

thanks

[limpid remnant]

Are you gonna build this?

Thats very big then

[fierce ruin]

i'm gonna try i may make it smaller but idk

[frosty owl]

That has some.... questionable recipe choices
Standard quickwire? Coke steel? Standard silica and quartz crystals?! Crystal beacons?!?

[fierce cypress]

who knows beta is expected to be buggy

[fierce ruin]

what even are the best recipes right now

[frosty owl]

The most efficient ones would be imo (referring to the ones I mentioned):

• Fused Quickwire (less caterium, but need some copper)
• Solid steel (all-around most efficient steel recipe)
• Cheap Silica (less quartz, use some limestone) and Pure Quartz Crystals (less quartz, need water)
• Standard beacons (needing just iron)

[mint sedge]

Encased pipe is an obvious one

Heavy Encased frame another

[flat vortex]

What program do you use to make those scheme's?

[small kayak]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[fierce cypress]

Sf tools ^^

[flat vortex]

Thnx

[hallow leaf]

I do 🙂

[wind spade]

main busses are generally considered super bad for satisfactory

[wind spade]

I assume the query was "maximise power" and beta has a bug where the power consumed by the factory is subtracted from produced power. So this essentially means that it optimised for power, not resource efficiency

(my guess, would have to look at it in more detail to see what's going on)

[tired maple]

if i need 500 framework that give 2 for every 12 steel beams how many would i need?

how would i do the math on that?

[deft lichen]

6*500?

[tired maple]

3000

[deft lichen]

((ingredient per cycle count)/(product per cycle count)) * (products required count)

[tired maple]

3000?

i think i did it right?

[deft lichen]

yep

[tired maple]

ok thx

[raw gate]

How do you get the Nuclear Power Plant into Satisfactory Tools?
It really bothers me that, unlike Satisfactory Calculator, Satisfactory Tools doesn't seem to have the Nuclear Power Plant as a production building that produced Uranium Waste from Uranium Fuel Rods.

[wind spade]

because nuclear power plant isn't a production building

it's a power generator

(and the image above is from beta version of SFTools which can calculate with power and sink points, although it's a bit wonky still)

@raw gate ^

[raw gate]

Thx
Let's hop that it will come to SF Tool soon. I would still consider a Nuclear Power plant both a power generator and a production building (because it produces waste). Honestly i would also welcome the addition of power generator to SF Tools. Then you could instantly see how much power is generated from the Fuel Byproduct and how much Power is left over.

[barren elm]

Is the old industrial storage container output bug fixed? Haven't played since like update 3

It used to prefer one output over the other, rather than outputting at full capacity on both outputs

It certainly seems fixed, but figured I'd confirm

[wind spade]

beta probably won't come to sftools. And adding power gens as production building is not ideal really

(you can still use beta though if you want)

[wind spade]

here's a reason why, copied from my answer to "why not add nuclear power generation as a fake recipe":

unfortunately, it doesn't behave like a recipe, and adding it as a "fake" recipe would be tons of work.

First, the data is processed automatically from game files, so any manual additions would either have to be hardcoded (which I'm not a big fan of) or re-added every time I run the script to process the data. Also, nuclear power plant doesn't have the parameters required to be able to calculate recipe production (e.g. "craftingSpeed"). It also doesn't use any power to run, which would break the building/overview displays. It would also display as a recipe in codex and recipe picker (which is technically incorrect). Not to mention that the formula for calculating overclock is different than the formula for production buildings.

All of that would have to be taken into account in code, which would result in multiple days of work. That's just not worth. Adding power properly is a much better option in this case, however as I said, it's not a big priority right now due to other things that I'm working on right now. It will come eventually though.

[sand summit]

2+2=9

[wind spade]

haha so funny. 1000 people made this joke already. Please stay on topic of the channel and don't spam it with crap like this 😉

[deft lichen]

that's actually good reasoning, I was thinking about this earlier

[wind spade]

well beta has it now, the answer is slightly outdated. But then again, beta probably won't be continued (neither will SFTools in current version), as I'm rewriting them from scratch (again) to better prepare for future stuff

[deft lichen]

we do have the "recipes" on the wiki but it still looks kinda odd to list it takes 3000 m3/cycle, because the per-cycle values are calculated from the usual per-min values

[wind spade]

it's also not a recipe

[deft lichen]

not data-wise

[wind spade]

so "recipe name" is weird 😄

[deft lichen]

well it otherwise has all qualities a recipe has, which is input resources, their counts, output resources, their counts, machine and cycle duration

the template for recipes is reused so that's why it says recipe name (this is the only case where this is used, it wouldn't make sense to make a whole template for it)

[wind spade]

well the problem for any calculations is the "machine" 🙂

also the fact that I'd have to put exceptions all around the code

[median heath]

So for the wiki people:
I can confirm that Compacted Coal has been taken out of the RNG pool entirely.
You have to get it from the MAM.

Testing Turbofuel now.

[median heath]

Compacted Coal and Turbofuel are not in the RNG pool.
They must be unlocked via the Sulfur tree in the MAM.

Unlocking Compacted Coal puts the following recipes into the RNG pool:
Compacted Steel
Fine Black Powder
Turbo Heavy Fuel

Unlocking Turbofuel does not add anything to the RNG pool.

Turbo Blend is not tied to any of the above. It is solely reliant on having the Blender unlocked.

[marsh gate]

Are there any reliable, but hopefully minimal effort ways to produce 4.8 Heavy Modular Frames/min with a single Manufacturer?

I say "4.8" because from what I'm seeing, with the standard recipe of Heavy Modular Frames it's 480 screws/min (which is the highest tiered belt I have).

[wintry aurora]

You can do that with the encased heavy modular frame recipe, will have to overclock though if you want to use a single manufacturer.

[marsh gate]

If I go with this, is the clock speed to items/min the same as heavy modular frames, which is 5/min at 250% clock speed?
Or is it more or less?

[wintry aurora]

Uh, you can check with satisfactory tools though.

[marsh gate]

That's what I'm doing, but... it's not really showing me the answer.

Either that or I'm blind.

[vapid gorge]

Divide you’re desired pm by how many pm the recipe makes x100 for %

[marsh gate]

That's the thing, I don't know how many it makes. Is it the same as the standard Heavy Modular Frames recipe, or is it different?

I don't know where to look in Satisfactory Tools, to find that answer.

[vapid gorge]

Look in the wiki

[marsh gate]

I am looking there, and all I see is the alt recipes require different Manufactures. But not of how many a single Manufacturer makes of each alt recipe, at 250% clock speed.

These are all at (assumed) 100%.

[vapid gorge]

So what would you multiply the base number by to get it at 250%

[marsh gate]

How though?
Ok, is this base number for Heavy Encased Frames this, 2.8125? I never multiplied by a percentage. How do you do that?

[ruby anchor]

number x 2.5

in this case where it's 250% anyway. 180% would be 1.8, etc etc

[marsh gate]

It shows 7.03125. Is that right?

[vapid gorge]

Sounds about right

[ruby anchor]

yep, if it's 2.8125 at 100% it'd be that at 250%

[vapid gorge]

So examples
200% is x2
150% x 1.5
80% x0.8

[marsh gate]

And would Satisfactory Tools understand this? Because it shows 7.031 / min when I entered that number.

[ruby anchor]

Yeah, sounds like it's only showing to 3 decimal places on there, which is fine!

[marsh gate]

Alright. Thank you. 🙂

[ruby anchor]

So much math involved, huh? Thankfully it's nothing too complicated once you figure it out!

[marsh gate]

I know it's only going to get worse.

[ruby anchor]

laughs in nuclear

[marsh gate]

And this is fun too.

The max I can go is 480, so I have to split this one belt (and yeah I'll need three miners, one per belt). ..Yet how do I split it like this?

I don't think Satisfactory can handle that kind of decimal. Do I just round it up to 251/min on both belts?
Or 250.78 on both, and knowing I wouldn't get that extra '010'?

[vapid gorge]

You know you can run multiple belts right?

And yeah just round up a bit

[marsh gate]

Yes, I literally just said I'll have to.

[vapid gorge]

You’re choosing to use a single belt

But also there’s not enough info. What are the purity of the nodes? What mk miner you using?

[median heath]

I think the issue he's pointing out is that 1 machine needs 501 and his max belt is 480.

Which as you said is his choice, but not sure why node purity comes into play when that is the bottleneck.