math-and-meta

[gray flower]

and if i need all raw queartz same

[topaz hedge]

Sure why not?

[gray flower]

but how much water

i don't want to take it over the ledge in the DD

what do i do

if i have to make over 2000 water extracotrs

[topaz hedge]

Guess you better start saving those copper sheets

[gray flower]

I have infinte

which is better piping it to area or training it or package it

@topaz hedge

[vapid gorge]

Best to set it by the % but you can click the per minute output and also change that

[chrome citrus]

how

[fierce cypress]

wdym how?

[chrome citrus]

how did they do that

[fierce cypress]

they did the same thing as normal, just on a larger scale

[sand epoch]

Its a small fraction of what he built there.. lol

[fierce cypress]

🤏

yea his world is kinda crazy

[cinder silo]

My world isn't crazy, just marginally oversized 😛

The reason that turbo fuel plant settled on that number of generators is 1800 oil + compacted coal gets 4000 turbofuel divide that by 4.5 gets you 888 and change.

[cinder silo]

After using a stopwatch, it takes my 12900k 4 minutes 57 to load my save.

[subtle crescent]

Rate my cursed calculation system

[vapid nest]

It's more the keyboard that gets me

[covert vine]

my concern here is your keyboard 😂

[covert vine]

thanks lol

[vapid nest]

Custom build?

[covert vine]

do you use the old school rubber ball mouse ?

[subtle crescent]

A4 Tech, vintage 2003 model with a scart plug

[vapid nest]

Damn I feel old

[subtle crescent]

It works just fine so why bother buying a gaming keyboard

[subtle crescent]

I was born in 1997 so I would've been 5 when this model was new

[vapid nest]

Because:
Mechanical~~
RGB~~
Profiles~~

[subtle crescent]

I got it from an old friend a few years ago

[covert vine]

the mechanical sound must be a delight

[subtle crescent]

I bet you guys' PCs must look like a rave

[covert vine]

No but I'm being serious I like the sound of old school keyboards ^^'

[zinc eagle]

no im using a 2010 genius non mechanical keyboard

[covert vine]

my pc can do some RGB but I did not chose the components based on this, and I just turn off all the light if possible, for me it is a waste of power

[subtle crescent]

It is indeed quite clacky

[zinc eagle]

its USB at least

[subtle crescent]

Actually the keyboard is the only really old thing. I have modern logitech models for mouse, headset and webcam

[zinc eagle]

kinda similar but i have a bit sneaky rgb

[covert vine]

my priority is the real hardware; for mouse, headset, keyboard, screen I don't take high quality, for example my screen is still VGA even if my GPU does hdmi, I use a cheap chinese adapter for it 😂

[subtle crescent]

Tbh most of my gaming PC's components are the original ones I got when it was built in 2015

[covert vine]

so my GPU is doing 244Hz I think but the adapter limits it to 60 lol

[subtle crescent]

I still use the same GTX 970

Satisfactory runs over 60fps most of the time for me

[covert vine]

I use a Gigabyte Radeon RX 5700 XT Gaming OC 8 Go
I don't even know if they still sell

[vapid nest]

GTX 960 here. Or I think it is

[covert vine]

same, but I limit all my games to 90 FPS, and since the screen frequency is limited to 60 it is not really different, but I will switch to a 144 Hz screen asap

[subtle crescent]

I honestly don't know my screen model but I also got it in 2015 with the PC. ASUS

[covert vine]

Yeah me neither I just know it is a Asus VGA 22" display but that's it

I will probably keep it for a 2nd display (for discord or coding it is enough) but I would like a 144 Hz gaming display

If you guys have any good recommendation I'll take it

[vapid nest]

I don't know if it's a good recommendation, it's "cheap" for what you get but I don't think it'll be the right thing for you. I have a AOC curved display that I think 27" And it cost me about 250 or something, but it's curved.

scrap the 250, its 350 and that's in francs idk it in dollars

[covert vine]

I don't really know what to think about curved displays for gaming

[vapid nest]

If you have a single one it's fine. For multiple displays.... nah

[covert vine]

Francs ??

[vapid nest]

Swiss money

[covert vine]

Ohhh ok, i'm french so euros for me
I did not know swiss had a specific currency 😭

[vapid nest]

We actually got the currency from you guys

When Bonaparte came and gave us the franc

Although it was francs for you first, after it was the Lire I think

[covert vine]

Yes i know that's the old french currency but we changed in like 2001 i think (I never used francs since i was born in 2000)

[cinder silo]

I only ever used francs once, on a day trip back in 1995.

[vapid nest]

How was your stay?

[cinder silo]

Quite pleasant, my poor attempts of speaking french were met with a lot of we do speak english 😄

[vapid nest]

Well we have it in primary school so...

Most start at the age of around 9 with english, french at around 11. But that's for the german speaking parts, idk about the other ones

[covert vine]

English is quite useful indeed, I am currently in Germany and for the last three months i only learned "i don't speak german, do you speak english ?" in german 😂

[vapid nest]

How do you say it?

[covert vine]

"Ich spreche kein Deutsch, sprichst du Englisch?"

My prononciation is awful but they get it

[vapid nest]

Nice

Do they care about "Du" and "Sie"?

[covert vine]

Not really

[vapid nest]

That's germany for you

[covert vine]

They get from my accent that it is useless to correct me 😭

[vapid nest]

Learning a new language is beautiful

[covert vine]

Yeah but german is really difficult for me and I don't know why

[vapid nest]

It IS difficult

When you have 4 cases with words that mean the same but are different depending on the situation...

Also depending if it's masculine, feminine or objective

It may be "Die die die die" when feminine, but "der den dem des" when masculine, and even I don't know if that's correct

Deutsche Sprache schwere Sprache.

[small pollen]

Idek

[hidden scarab]

Yah mathhhh and meta

[timid spade]

Hello everyone. I need some of that math you're all snorting. How do I translate, say, 11.2 constructors in the actual game? I know I'm supposed to build 12 and underclock the last one but I'm not sure how to figure out by how much (I wanna say 20% but I just know I'm wrong). Also, how would I go about underclocking all of them at the same clock speed instead of underclocking just the last one? Thank youuuuuu

[cinder silo]

0.2 is 20% you got it right. though I'd probably run two machines in the twelve stack at 60%, more even take up and less pain to my numbers head 🙂

[timid spade]

Ohh that's smart. Thank you so much!

[fierce ruin]

You can also run all 12 constructors at 93.3333

if u like making life hard on yourself

well its not bad for constructors since you can copypaste settings i guess. more painful on generators

[vapid nest]

Someone got tips on manufacturer manifolds?

[wind spade]

Either sushi with sink or 4 manifolds (e.g. stacked belts or underground/above belts)

[spring sequoia]

You can use 14 constructors at 80%, that would save a lot of power as well.

[vapid gorge]

I like putting the lines in a layer under with lifts feeding up. The belts under clip across each other but it's all hidden anyway

[wind spade]

11.2 means 1120% in total, clock as you want as long as it sums to 1120%

[cinder silo]

Never do x.3333 the game rounds down and can make your numbers go ever so slightly off.

[wind spade]

Just make every third machine .3334

[timid spade]

that'd be perfect. Thank you! What's the formula for that? I want to be better at math

[fierce ruin]

Just take the number of constructors you want to use and divide by the number it says you need

[cinder silo]

I learned that with my aluminium plant, water in was shorting the production by 0.0001ish, when I pushed it to x.xx34, I discovered my VIP junction didn't actually work.

[fierce ruin]

er

other way around

11.2/14 = 0.8 so an 80% clock

[timid spade]

Awesome, exactly what I needed

[spring sequoia]

You can brute force it: get your calculator and divide 11.2 by 12, 13, 14 until you get a nice round number.
Then use that many.

You use more space (more machines) but save a lot of power because underclocking is exponential.

[wind spade]

Save some power

[cinder silo]

Please don't do 1% clocks.

[wind spade]

It's not that much really, unless you go crazy with clock speed

[spring sequoia]

IIRC with an exponential most of the power savings are in the first few % under 100%

The more you underclock the less you save per unit of speed lost.

[fierce ruin]

nah its the other way around

the lower the underclock the less power per item

at 50% you're looking at 2/3rds energy usage

oh wait i see what you mean

nevermind 🙂

too early to be mathing for me

[wind spade]

For this case, 14 machines at 80% use 39.19MW while 11 at 100% + 1 at 20% use 44.3MW

[spring sequoia]

Non linear functions are hard fr

So it saves 11.5%

[wind spade]

For this case

[fierce ruin]

oh speaking of power use greeny, any chance we could get some sneaky little checkboxes somewhere to optimize calculations on the... uh calculator for things other than min resource usage?

[wind spade]

It's in beta (but a bit broken). Planned soon™️

[fierce ruin]

cool 😄

[wind spade]

You can join beta in the tool's discord

[fierce ruin]

will do

[cinder silo]

I used tools to create a plan for re-automating elevator parts for the sake of it - https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=xmbInrXzF00B8MsrmRZu nightmare ahead.

[fierce ruin]

the real nuclear pasta was the conveyor belts we laid along the way

[cinder silo]

Thankfully I can simplify some of the mess with excess aluminium casings rubber & plastic.

Hmm, perfect use for drones ❤️ my battery factory has a purpose!

[vapid nest]

May the conveyor brainfrick begin

[vapid nest]

Computer factory (nearly) done. Only need to connect the computers to storage and sink and then architecture.

[tropic hawk]

It actually is bad due to certain laws of production, specifically the 45-81 rule

Found the rule, which makes it so your machines never stutter

45-81 rule.

Plastic/Rubber in terms of 81.
Everything else in 45.
Exceptions:
Pure Iron
CtCB (in low amounts)
Fine Concrete (which should never be used anyway)

[umbral lake]

So, what are your thoughts on the two aluminium alt recipes 'sloppy alumina' and 'pure aluminium ingot' combined ?? The plus is they remove silicon/quartz completely from the chain and make a lot simpler to setup. Downside is they use more Bauxite and Coal. Here the first image is with no alts, second is with the two alts mentioned:

[tropic hawk]

If your use case is not to prioritize resources, then it works great, as it's simpler than normal with minimal feedback loops.

If you use case is to prioritize resources, it isn't good because of increased bauxite consumption.

[umbral lake]

yea that is what I was thought. Is the cheap silica recipe a good path to go ? (Current MP playthrough we have that, but not the other two I've mentioned which I do have in SP save)

[wild radish]

If you had extra petroleum coke you could also use the electrode scrap recipe to get the same bauxite to aluminum ratio as the default but without silica

[frosty owl]

It's not possible to answer the question not knowing your preferences in resources usage, build count, how you value avoiding byproducts over saving resources... It's a very nuanced issue

What I can say is that if you need that extra bit of aluminium ingots, you should invest silica in the process

[fierce ruin]

Is there somewhere i can read more about this? Google thinks 45 81 rule means I want to know some legal nonsense 😄

[tropic hawk]

Cheap silica is good if you need silica, otherwise you don't really need it

[frosty owl]

Try looking it up in this Discord server

[proven valve]

#old-questions-and-help message

[fierce ruin]

how do i make this work

im trying to make packaged fuel with this uhh other like normal oil deposit

but idk how to use STools right

[small pollen]

Disable the normal recipe

[tropic hawk]

Looks like it's working fine to me, what's the problem?

[vapid gorge]

so you're trying to figure out what is the most you can make?

Set the 'oil' to what ever you're going to set your extractor to pull out.

Then choose your fuel recipes you're going to use,

Then maximise package fuel in the production.

[vapid gorge]

for example this - this just uses basic recipes and 300 oil https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=4nSjzN0LaiTo69BEiN9G

[fierce ruin]

hm

[vapid gorge]

are you making this to fuel automated vehicle logistics or just your personal jet pack and vehicles?

[fierce ruin]

whats the first one?

[vapid gorge]

Like if you are setting up trucks to move items from point A to point B.

I don't like them personally but people do use them

[fierce ruin]

no

im probably gonna use a train

[vapid gorge]

and this is your first oil production set up I take it?

[fierce ruin]

so just my jetpack

yeah

i had a save that i had 70 hours on and i didnt even finish phase like 1 or 2 or something

[vapid gorge]

My recomendation then - just have like 1 machine making containers and connect that up to some of the residual fuel you make. Even like 5 pm will do you as it'll fill up your storage

the rest of the HOR you can turn into coke and sink.

[fierce ruin]

coke

[vapid gorge]

petroleum coke.

[fierce ruin]

so would this be it?

[vapid gorge]

!Wikisearch coke

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=coke

[vapid gorge]

Ah is this part of a fuel power station?

[fierce ruin]

well i dont know what you mean since its my first time on uhh oil

there is a fuel thing or something for power with the residue fuel?

[vapid gorge]

So the last pic you shared seemed like something that was designed to primarily make fuel.

Since your fuel needs right now are so low I'd just use residual fuel from the plastic/rubber you're making

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

You can use fuel for generators - but I would keep that separate from making plastic/packaged fuel

So the first things you need with your first oil set up is rubber and plastic for the most part right?

[fierce ruin]

well ive already done that

[vapid gorge]

what are you doing with the HOR then?

[fierce ruin]

the what?

[vapid gorge]

heavy oil residue

it's a byproduct

[fierce ruin]

ohj

uhh nothing i guess because idk what to do with them

i am gonna make the packaged fuel thing

[vapid gorge]

I'd imagine that's clogged up your factory then 🙂

[fierce ruin]

yes it is

[vapid gorge]

so here's a plan - it's not perfect https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=zwzQZ2ubJ4Tld6FXJndN

[fierce ruin]

currently nothing is being produced since the fuel is doing nothing

[vapid gorge]

What you would want to do is instead of turning ALL the HOR into fuel, you turn most of it into Coke and sink it

[fierce ruin]

this is my oil thingt

2 are pure and 2 are normal

[tropic hawk]

OK, first things first

you said that this is your first oil line of the world, correct?

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[tropic hawk]

alright, do you have any plastic or rubber production?

[fierce ruin]

yes

they are being clogged due to the residue fuel

or heavy residue oil

[vapid gorge]

Well if all you want is plastic/rubber and a bit of packaged fuel - turn all the HOR into coke except for the amount of fuel you want for packaged 🙂

[fierce ruin]

this game probably isnt for me if i dont understand most of the things you mean

[vapid gorge]

sorry - turn all the heavy oil residue into petroleum coke except for a small amount you'll turn into residuel fuel then packaged

[fierce ruin]

so i split the HOR into one that makes coke and one that makes packaged?

[vapid gorge]

That seems reasonable yes 🙂

if you only want a small amount of fuel per minute you probably only need 1 refinery making residual fuel

[fierce ruin]

hmm

what if i dont make any uhh coke and just use it all to make packed fuel

[vapid gorge]

you could certainly do that! 🙂 Jet packs don't use very much though so you'd probably be 'wasting' material that could be turned to plastic or rubber which may or may not be more useful to you

[fierce ruin]

hmm

[vapid gorge]

I think a big hurdle, other than the logic work, in this game is people figuring out that what you want to make is pretty much up to you

[sand epoch]

And how big you are willing to go, lol

[fierce ruin]

if i use the two uhh normal oil deposits for the packaged fuel and then the other two pure oil deposits that are making rubber and plastic i turn it into coke and then sink that

[vapid gorge]

Sure 🙂
The impression I'm getting is you don't like the idea of splitting up what 1 node is doing into multiple things?

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

That's fair - would it make it easier on your brain to think of this map as your trial and experiment map? Just understanding the basics?

[sand epoch]

That wont last much longer, me thinks..

[fierce ruin]

i mean ive done it once on like copper but that one seemed simple this one is different because idk

[vapid gorge]

There's different ways to deal with it. Keeping track with a spread sheet is a thing but you should probably focus on keeping it simple and understanding how to do things.

So doing 1 node for plastic/rubber and 1 node for packaged fuel is probably a very good idea for you

[fierce ruin]

this is one of my uhh oil refineres. its default was to go with fuel but i should probably do coke?

[vapid gorge]

Probably yes - if you keep making fuel from the heavy oil residue you'll need to get rid of it some way. One way is Fuel generators the other is using some of the plastic for containers

Personally though I highly recommend not mixing your power infrastructure with your production infrastructure

[fierce ruin]

hmm

[vapid gorge]

And 1 awesome sink can take care of the coke and get you points at the same time. Sinking coke is a good early point source

[fierce ruin]

i see now this im more of a visual learner

[vapid gorge]

Same 😄

[fierce ruin]

well even if its visual i sometimes still dont get it if its too complex

[vapid gorge]

different brains approach logic problems in different ways. I'm lucky that I thrive on this stuff

[fierce ruin]

i dont wanna use my plastic from this 240 oil / min factory so ill be moving the fuel to the one that gets 120 oil / min and make plastic from that one to make the fuel?

unless ill also get too much plastic from that

[vapid gorge]

What is 'too much' plastic for you?

[fierce ruin]

well i dont have numbers but to the point where it overflows or just has a lot of plastic left to spare?

[vapid gorge]

So unless you want to be extremely efficient - which I wouldn't suggest worrying about early in game and while you're learning - having lots of extra items is probably good.

Later on you'll need a lot more plastic anyway and it's not really hurting you making it.

The only downside is if you needed the oil to make something else right now

which doesn't sound like its the case

[fierce ruin]

i wanted to use this factory to make the empty containers and the packaged fuel

[vapid gorge]

Ahh ok well you could just sink the extra plastic then. That would keep things simpler for you 🙂

[fierce ruin]

oh whoops did i not post the picture?

[vapid gorge]

Maybe not? But yeah from that picture make your containers for the fuel and then sink the plastic

The suggestions I'm making are done with the idea of keeping it simple and straight forward btw. There's lots of ways to make it more efficient but I don't think that's the important thing right now

[fierce ruin]

there is this thing

[vapid gorge]

Looks good! You can have the overflow of resin and the extra packaged fuel sunk for points and keep the system going 🙂

[fierce ruin]

wait what will i do with this one? unless i can just put the extra fuel i get from this into the other one

[vapid gorge]

or just turn all the heavy oil residue to coke and sink it? I'm not sure what else you're making on that one

[fierce ruin]

yeah

[sand epoch]

Lol 🙂

2k should be a nice starting point for everyone 😄

[vapid gorge]

Probably unreasonable until you get recycled loops

[sand epoch]

A given

[thick plank]

I mean, you shouldnt really start with more then one oil pump before you have dilluted fuel and recycled loops. Just cause when you have them you have to dismantle everything you built

And build it new

So Too much plastic in this specific case is more then 60 oil/min use

[main shuttle]

well, now that that's done (twice), time to assemble the borg cube

or Minas Tirith, haven't decided yet

[fierce ruin]

I think i misunderstand the math on hypertube accelerators. Is each segment not a flat additive speed boost? I added an additional segment to my enclosed hypertube accelerator and it cut travel time in like half

[karmic fjord]

No, it's not. Each segment gives an exponential speed boost.

[fierce ruin]

ahh ok that explains it then 🙂

[thick plank]

Tirith sounds good

[fossil raptor]

So I've been having a dilemma
What's the more efficient way of doing the overflow method?

Is it better having the input belt be as fast as possible (ex.: Constructor needs 30/min but I put a 120/min belt cause that's how many items per min I have / It's the fastest belt available)
or is it better to have it be at the necessary speed? (ex.: Constructor needs 30/min so I put a 60/min belt)

or does it not really matter that much?

[ionic galleon]

Outside of some very specific edge cases, there's not really any reason not to have all belts as fast as possible. Makes everything simpler to think about.

[fierce cypress]

doesnt matter that much, faster is normally fine tho

[civic stream]

Hi guys, what is the best between load balancing and manifold to split and fill the buildings ?

[wind spade]

both work the same, manifolds are easier to build, balancers start working immediately.

[fierce cypress]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer

[wind spade]

generally people do manifolds because of tons of advantages and the slower startup can be removed by pre-filling the buildings

[civic stream]

I will continue in this way then! thank you

[frosty owl]

A small addition to what @fierce cypress said: using all high tier belts leads to the manifolded machines filling up (thus reaching max efficiency) faster than using slow input belts for the machines; the latter increases fill-time by ~1/4 but also produces more output items in the same time frame

||Personally, I think slow input belts look better ||

[crude tulip]

Hello I'm building a crystal oscillator farm (12/m) and it seems all to go to 100% efficiency except for the quartz crystal farms, the last 2 constructors are like at 60% efficiency and I don't know why, the math is correct, I'm producing 216 quartz crystal per minute distributed over 12 constructors producing 18 per minute, the farm works but I'd like to have everything at 100% efficiency but don't know why it does this :/

[vapid gorge]

generally ignore the efficiency meter. Usually very wrong.

What you should pay attention to are the lights. Are the machines starving on and off? if so then you have to do a diagnostic and double check all are clocked propplerly, the miner is clocked and that all the belt connetions are the mk they are supposed to be

[crude tulip]

yeah I check on them and they were all green after like 15 minutes of warming up (I had a lot of manifolds), but those 2 were going light-yellow, I mean the output was full and those machines could not throw out anymore items, but like after another 5-10 minutes it stabilized itself and now it's all always green

apparently it resolved by itself 😅

[crude tulip]

yess all the underclocking was perfect, I mean I usually don't use overclocks unless I've got a real necessity

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah well depending on the system 30min + isn't unreasonable for a manifold to stabalise, especially with wire/screws in the mix.

I've got a multi stage manifold factory that takes hours to get to full even hand feeding some of the things

[crude tulip]

ooh, oke oke, noted, thanks :D

[vapid gorge]

No problem! I find that it's faster to diagnose a manifold system if you hand feed a stack of all the items needed into the machines after you've turned it on. You'll generally find issues faster as machine starve if you haven't set it up right

[unborn ermine]

I like to fill all the machines, then have the last ones at around 50%
Its easy to check if it goes up or down too much.

(I usually do a 50/50 split when I do machines, with splitters doing batches of 2)

[vapid nest]

well...

I knew it'll increase but oh wow

[sand epoch]

I miss small ticket point req. :/

[covert sierra]

What did you fill it with????

[sage torrent]

best thing i learned in the game is manifoldinf

and vips

[unique sedge]

I have a small hand fed computer factory, and I use that to make 2-300 computers to dump into the sink rn while I build my new base elsewhere. Been nice to slowly get the other cosmetic things that I didn't have yet.

[small pollen]

Seems legit

[vapid nest]

Computers.

[covert sierra]

Ah I see

[magic ridge]

heh. this was amusing while doing some satisfactory-related calculations....
What sort of copyright-related maths did we trigger?

[tropic hawk]

do Minas Tirith. its cooler.

[analog frigate]

there's any recomended height between floors?

[crystal charm]

aren't coal gens in update 5 only 40m3 of water/min

i'm using the experimental build atm, and it's listed as 45

[cinder silo]

Always been 45.

[crystal charm]

ok, been a while, memory is off i guess

[wild radish]

About height of the buildings I'm planning on having on that floor +1 wall is what I use

[crystal charm]

i did a new start in the desert, definitely a bit harder to get started

[ionic galleon]

I mean you could read the DMCA complaint and find out...

[magic ridge]

what's the fun in that, when we can keep the wonder instead?

[crystal charm]

think i'd rather poke out my eyes with a rusty fork

[ionic galleon]

Multiple of 4 metres, and as tall as you need for whatever you're building on them.

[magic ridge]

depends on what you're building, but at least 3 walls for things like constructors and assemblers

refineries need 8 walls.

[crystal charm]

wish this game had an offline mode where things kept running while you weren't there

[wind spade]

that's dedicated server 🤷‍♂️

[crystal charm]

i know, just running a single player atm, checking out update 6 stuff

[sand epoch]

Could just minimize the window and do other stuff.. lol

[frosty owl]

And that comes with non-offline issues

[ionic galleon]

I just moved my game from local to dedicated server, and yeah. Though tbf it's all desync issues, though it's really annoying that it's messing with my fancy hypertube components (onramps etc)

[frosty owl]

"Multiplayer broken, pls fix"
In other words, there's still lot of work to be done on the multiplayer aspect of the game

[wintry aurora]

That is weird for math related copyrights....

[magic ridge]

exactly

[vapid gorge]

It looks like it was a page with a search for a calculator? So might have been results from that

[tender thorn]

coordinates 🤫

[sage torrent]

look at the dcma claim

[magic ridge]

and spoil all that fun pondering about what it might be?

[vapid nest]

Planned my HMF Factory: Realized it'll be complicated because I don't have enough resources. Decide to brute force my way through Phase 3 so I get Mk3 Miners and Mk5 belts.

nvm

Mk3 miners are impossible rn

[oblique hollow]

good luck with the turbo motors

[vapid nest]

😭

[slim cosmos]

yeah im rooting for you with that brute force. the game only really starts with mk5 belts and mk3 miners 😉

[sage torrent]

how i did it is i trained my resources in

i didnt even have to bute force phase 3

also dont try to get 4 HMFs/min because then the beltwork gets too complicated

[tender thorn]

Just increase some input items' production and make sink the extras

[tender thorn]

I got 5.625/min 😳

[frosty owl]

Just scale stuff based on a manufacturer at 100% and then fiddle with your numbers from there (AFTER having checked how numbers work out down the line)

[astral tapir]

Took half a notebook to get to this point.

Could be more efficient, there's a lot of excess ore coming in. The wet concrete and silica byproducts are sinked instead of the recycling system relying on them

Also got turned around halfway up so the East/West columns are switched

Turns 300 uranium into 90gw and recycles and sinks the waste using non-fissle for a completely clean build, powered by unfailable circuits with max consumption lower than the production (provided nobody accidentally hooks something up to them.

Y'all got any of them Microsoft Excel codes? 😂

[wind spade]

or you could use any of the online tools in #welcome

[fierce ruin]

is... is that paper?

[astral tapir]

Lol I couldn't have done it without them. I've got like 40 tabs open on 2 devices with different factories input I need to clean up before I clean up this factory

[wind spade]

satisfactory tools allow you to have all the productions in one browser tab 😛

[fierce ruin]

woah

some people are really smart

[astral tapir]

My brain does not work like that lol. I appreciate the effort and should just force myself to put together a workflow breakdown for faculty design and do all the planning before starting to build

This was just me trying to write down and figure out what I placed where in the last 4 days after spending weeks understand the numbers behind waste processing

[cinder silo]

I used a lot of paper notes and text files before someone pointed out satisfactory tools.

By then I'd built a nuclear facility of 100 reactors the hard way.

[astral tapir]

Like I would not be able to keep that one one page organized. I've got a few factories built on a couple tabs

It still really helps though

[wind spade]

not sure how well sftools work with several open tabs, when you edit them. afaik only the last edit gets saved

so if you edit it in two tabs at the same time, the second edit overwrites the first one

[astral tapir]

Just gotta use chrome and Firefox baby

[vapid gorge]

Combo Tools with notes and layouts in a spread sheet. That's what I had to do to make it work with my brain

[small oasis]

oofsky ... I am staring at a 120 assembler building to use 1800 limestone to produce 1500 concrete since I have fine concrete available. I want power savings so minimum at 100% is 60 assemblers. I usually build 3x ... but [@#!!$*] that.

[cinder silo]

Ouch, I'd just stack a load of constructors on top of the mine and standard concrete, sod fine, I value the quartz for something that is less common than limestone.

[small oasis]

'eh ... it's only 270/min on the two ones in the red desert. I'm just making a fully reclaimed nuclear power ... and then will work on making the golden-cup launch items.

I can limit with T3 belt and appropriate clocking.

[vapid gorge]

What kind of monster uses fine concrete 😛

[cinder silo]

My next save has another direction coming for mines, behold the slender miner/smelter tower prototype, subject to infinite vertical stacking and six metres wide 🤣

[small oasis]

holds up hand and chewbaccas

[small oasis]

Limited only by the void damage at the ceiling.

[cinder silo]

True but even a pure node won't make it go that high, it's 9 metres per smelter sitting on top of the miner.

[small oasis]

At that point ... I'd imagine an orbital extraction company spearing those things into nodes from orbit.

[cinder silo]

I could encase it in glass, then it would be an eight by sixteen glass tower 😄

[small oasis]

Just do a 5 tall for the golden ratio?

[cinder silo]

That's about as thin as I can make it but it is a purely vertical manifold, made possible by floor holes as shown in the close up here.

[vapid gorge]

hmm how did you clip the lifts on both ends like that? I could do it with micro manage but don't know a vanilla way

or at least only have it clip that hard only on one end

[cinder silo]

Foundation, add the hole directly below the upper splitter

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah clever clever

[cinder silo]

Build a lift down from the hole and snap in to the lower splitter.

Then mouse the lift over the hole for the upward splitter, mouse wheel until you hear the chirp, then ta da, it's snapped in.

[vapid gorge]

not disimilar to what I did to get the lifts facign out here

[cinder silo]

Exactly

The towers use the holes so I don't end up with the lifts sticking out massively making the whole thing look bad.

[vapid nest]

My plan was 6/min. Overclocking the miners, the only problem is the limestone.

[tidal wren]

is it true that a train has regenerative brake ? with a positive output ?
' in a net power gain of up to 8 MW. ' from https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Locomotive

has some mad-person built a factory with a train brake power source ?

[frosty owl]

You can't make more power than you use with a train. You can only save some of the power you used

[frosty owl]

So no, as it would be impossible

[tidal wren]

arg, could be fun if we actually gained 1W from a two train in synchronised acceleration and deceleration
like, not usefull
but somebody would make that factory, and get all the praise of the reality breaking brake

[ionic galleon]

Unless you take heavy stuff from a higher place to a lower place, and send the train back up empty. Works irl - there's at least one gravity-powered conveyor system still in operation in the UK - but I don't know if Satisfactory will allow it.

[frosty owl]

Sounds plausible, if the train uses little enough energy going up and gives back enough going down.
Charging some power storages and using them to run such a train setup could answer this.

[ionic galleon]

There's some water sources up high, which should work for testing. Or for testing, just abuse the free-energy conveyors and make a closed loop.

[vapid gorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuxbMfKO9Pg

[ionic galleon]

Look, I prefer to think of them as /guidelines/...

[vapid gorge]

Bending physics is the best

Just gotta figure out a way to steal energy from other dimensions

[ionic galleon]

And hey, the high-water-source thing doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics. It's just the closed loop that does, because conveyors.

My prediction btw, is that this probably /will/ work (water or closed-loop), but that it won't produce enough net power to be worth bothering with.

[vapid gorge]

in the game?

[ionic galleon]

Yeah.

[vapid gorge]

walk me through this concept 🙂 (if you have time)

[ionic galleon]

IRL there's that gravity-powered system that essentially just runs itself for free, and there's hydro power (including hydro storage), and that's pretty much it.

[vapid gorge]

how would you do this in game

I suspect it's impossible in game with current power/weight/brake recycling

[ionic galleon]

Hey, sure thing.

• Run a sloped track between a high place and a low place.

• Start a train up the top, full - either from a resource gathered up there, or from a resource transported there from the bottom by abusing conveyors.

• Run the loaded train down from high place to low place, recovering gravitational potential energy from the train and from its load.

• Unload the train at low place, send the empty train back up. Only needs power to lift up the train itself, not a load.

[vapid gorge]

Now you were mentioning above there was a max 8mw power retrieved going down?

[cinder silo]

I never paid attention to some of the finer things train, My experiments were all about causing multiple train pileups and having a laugh.

[vapid gorge]

as you should XD

[cinder silo]

I would have left it all in state but those warning triangles on the compass were bothersome.

[ionic galleon]

"The regenerative brake will, depending on the current speed of the locomotive, generate up to 33 MW. By subtracting the base demand of 25 MW, this results in a net power gain of up to 8 MW."

(wasn't me saying it before, this is new to me, but that's from the wiki)

[vapid gorge]

That's what I thought. I can't think of a way to make that be enough to send the train back up to continue the cycle sadly

Now if you were to make a mod that changed a few things up so that it could generate power properly based on weight and braking... sure

[ionic galleon]

Longer track coming down? Since that regen limit is power rather than energy. But yeah, probably a pain to get any net power.

[vapid gorge]

Well, you'd have to send 1 train back up empty while one train comes down right? and trains going uphill even empty are power hogs

It's just that the game doesn't provide you a way to actually capture the grav energy of the down train

[frosty owl]

Considering a max reg. is 33 and consumption baseline is 25, I doubt a train will consume less than 33 when traveling up the slope
But I also don't remember trains' power usage all that well 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

The point is wether we can or not. If it's worth it or not will be decided by whoever will be crazy enough to try once (if) we get confirmation

[ionic galleon]

Oh for sure, I'll be astonished if it's actually possible to get worthwhile amounts of power out of this. The only question left for me is whether it's technically possible at all, and yeah I'm going to be impressed if someone manages it.

[vapid gorge]

Ok I think you should try to create one with trains that have many Locomotives and find out if the Max break regen is per locomotive. If so you could create multiple instances of +8mw

Then you hope the single multi engine train only uses a static X mw to climb back up

I think it won't work because I suspect each loco going up will have a base 25mw use

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, I'd guess <50% chance that it's possible at all. Definitely a bunch of effort, so I'm not doing it <.<

[vapid gorge]

Fair XD

[ionic galleon]

If you want minimalist/brutalist skyrail designs or hypertube network components though, then I'm your guy. 😛

[low yoke]

what is the equation for the volume of the sphere?

[vapid gorge]

X, where X = the formula

[low yoke]

true

4/3pi * r* r *r

[vapid gorge]

Like I said, X.

[low yoke]

yes

thank you for the idea

i shall you it on my friends someday

• use

[vapid gorge]

I don't recommend using it on a test. I'd give you zero.

[low yoke]

its not wrong lol

[low yoke]

ye ofc imma not use it there

[vapid gorge]

But almost certainly not what the question will be requiring of you

[low yoke]

if u wanted to know why i needed that, its because im making a calculator

in js and html

[vapid gorge]

Fair enough 🙂

[lyric kiln]

some one got a turtorial on a iron farm with mk2 miners i can get

i have 3 iron notes

[frosty owl]

What are you looking for? How many items you can make out of those nodes? (Which can be answered easily by SFTools)

The data you presented isn't enough to answer clearly, in any case, as there's no way to know how much ore/min you're dealing with without the nodes purity. Knowing what you'd want to produce and in what proportions would be good too

[vapid gorge]

Just make some space with enough smelters for each node at however much you clock it to and manifold.

[lyric kiln]

its nomal notes so i can make 120 min out of each so i can make 360 but i only have mk3 belts so i can only carry 270 min

[frosty owl]

You can carry that much using two MK3 belts or one MK3 and one MK2 or three MK2s
What's your question?

[lyric kiln]

i need a good iron factory

[vapid gorge]

So have 1x mk3 belt for each miner and make a seperate manifold for each

[lyric kiln]

ok

[gilded gust]

me doing the math for how many assemblers I will need for my max efficiency rifle ammo production. the sense of dread and also satisfaction is amazing!!!

[vapid gorge]

You need more than 1?

[oblique hollow]

No way, new manual version?

Feedback welcome, ill update the wiki and reddit post for this should there be no major flaws

[frosty owl]

Is there a log of changes or some patch notes?

[oblique hollow]

no lol

as if i would write patch notes for the manual

[frosty owl]

• Accounted for the fluid loss bug being fixed
• Fixed references to fluid loss...
  Just an example xD

[oblique hollow]

nah

the manual never acknowledged that issue to begin with

since i was hesitant to include that

[frosty owl]

Not even something like: beware of closed fluid loops? O.o

[oblique hollow]

no because closed loops are ok now as far as im aware

and i didnt bother to include a disclaimer for the loading bug, again

[elder frost]

Congrats im just starting my first nuke plant today

[frosty owl]

@cinder silo So, if I'm understanding correctly... You're gonna either use sushi drones (wow,ong range sushi transport so rare!) or use drones to feed sushi... Right?
Am I guessing your sushi right? 😏

[cinder silo]

The drones will be moving sushi, the plan is for two pairs of drone ports, one takes up rubber & plastic (mixed) the other taking up turbo motors, fused frames and all the other shit I have spare.

[frosty owl]

Will you be sending overflow to storage or just sink it there?

[cinder silo]

Bit of both, there will be overflow to store as I will begin with the induction area.

[astral tapir]

I forgot to upgrade my limestone node to max and got the caterium ore to ingot to quickwire ratios wrong lol. But fixed once it was turned on. No harm done

Good luck

[cinder silo]

The factory will grow around the destination drone port, also in two pairs.

[elder frost]

mind if I DM you quick?

[frosty owl]

... Funny enough, making nuclear more complex scales the time needed planning accordingly
Took me ~690 in-game signs to get a perfect grip over my nuclear factory

[cinder silo]

My nukes weren't so much planned but just thrown there in the most ad-hoc manner I have ever done.

[elder frost]

well i rarely do power small so I will be looking at maxing out a uranium node in one shot

[cinder silo]

My power isn't small, it consumes all 2100 uranium on the map, it just isn't efficient.

[elder frost]

which depending on if i get alts etc from the next 15 hard drives i have to process will make a huge difference im guessing

[frosty owl]

I kinda did that in my first nuclear factory... Quickly realized I had to give some more thought on everything
||And that was the beginning of a long sushi-testing journey ahaha||

[cinder silo]

I will actually need to modernise my nuclear setup sometime, there is definitely a better way to handle it.

[frosty owl]

-I finished a factory and it's amazing!
Find new alt recipe related to factory
-My factory sucks!

Never happened to me, won't ever happen to you

[cinder silo]

Fortunately the whole chain was built in a manner that will allow me to do a full shutdown.

[frosty owl]

What's "better" for you at this point?

[elder frost]

lol I feel that, that was my first playthrough. I'm looking to do a 0 waste nuclear plant, so its gonna be interesting figuring this one out

[cinder silo]

Hard to say, I need to fully review my build, one change I'm thinking of is to more widely distribute plutonium fuel production to cut radiation concentrations.

[frosty owl]

Tip: start from the Uranium Rods and plan your way down.
Then start from the waste and plan ahead

[elder frost]

that makes a lot of sense, I have been looking at it from multiple spots to kind of see where i can get a good bite into the problem

mainly if i get the alternate uranium fuel recipe atm

[frosty owl]

If you load-balance, just the manufacturers should be annoyingly radioactive. And you could "just" feed them via a drone and bring back the Rods so you have the processing in some remote area 🤔

[elder frost]

and here im looking at making just one really big hot zone xD

[cinder silo]

Everything radioactive IS load balanced, the issue is the nine manufacturers emit a lot of radiation in their group.

The facility is at the bottom of the waterfall but the radiation levels still bug me.

[frosty owl]

Tbf, I'm assuming a bit, but there's probably at least 1k hours of difference in experience at play ahahah
You both focus on different things :)

[elder frost]

I just have optionally never decided to tackle nuclear.. so its gonna be a hot mess either way

[frosty owl]

Then just as I said: since the throughput is quite small, you could have a drone take away the items needed for the manufacturers and bring back the Rods (plus eventual overflow) ^^

Basically, you'd be "expanding batteries" to have less radiation

[frosty owl]

I honestly find it one of the most fun production chains to mess with :)

(And yeah, I like complex things 😅)

[elder frost]

I'm assuming it will be, and I honestly am looking forward to it. I just need to do it xD

and finish processing these drives. xD

[frosty owl]

This first!

[elder frost]

still another hour plus of drive work

[cinder silo]

The facility itself is in a position that isn't a radiation threat, I just want to cut radiation density in each factory, probably means I'll have to expand the distances between the manufacturers, also probably need to raise the roof to separate the encased cells some.

[astral tapir]

This was my first try and I have to max out nodes for my brain to work, so I just used the impure node maxed at 300 uranium/minute. Pretty easy recipe chain, powers 36 reactors and the waste is split 270 to blenders making non fissile, and sent to the accelerators with the remaining 90 waste

I built it all high up above my turbofuel that powers it and the radiation doesn't reach that far.

[frosty owl]

Oh, if you'd like, I recommend doing plans for plutonium in the meanwhile. Nothing too precise, just (eg) a plan to get rid of 100 waste/min to pass the time and familiarize yourself.
If you don't use plutonium for power, you probably want to use all standard recipes for that anyway :)

[elder frost]

on it

[frosty owl]

I still think it's worth droning the manufacturing away 🤷‍♂️
A single manufacturer would need ~6 foundations of clearance to not feel radiation (in all directions), all other machines need like... 1 at most.
So unless you space the manufacturers by 12 foundations between one another, the resulting radiation will overlap in an even bigger bubble

[cinder silo]

Droning stuff over sixteen metres would be weird.

The whole plutonium chain is already isolated from everything else,

[frosty owl]

Why would you drone it 16 meters ahahah
I said to use a drone because (providing batteries at source) that allows you to set the manufacturers and feed them anywhere you want: just plop down a drone port

Eg: I was planning some nuclear in the waterfall/lake area where the manta passes, kinda between the crater lakes and the northern forest. To keep things clean, I planned on droning the stuff for rods to a small and isolated platoue that towers over the area. Less than a KM away, but high enough that no radiation could be felt

Dunno if I'm giving a clear idea of what I mean

[cinder silo]

Ahh, my plutonium plant is far enough below the uranium fuel facility the radiation isn't felt, radiation actually starts at about twelve metres outside the plutonium rod facility walls, it's that I wanted to cut because the outdoor walkway is a hazard.

[frosty owl]

All you can do is move the manufacturers further away from the walls 🤷‍♂️
If that's not enough.... Drone!

[cinder silo]

Most of my entire nuke chain is pretty much radiation free, that plutonium rod facility flies in the face of that.

[frosty owl]

Tbf, there IS a way to cut down radiation, but I kinda despise it -.-

[cinder silo]

The nuclear power hall itself you can't even get a dose of radiation by hugging the reactors themselves.

[frosty owl]

Double the clock of the Rods manufacturers so they only pile up to 30 Cells instead of 60
Half radiation as a result and enjoy your manufacturers being idle half the time

[cinder silo]

The nine manufacturers are heavily overclocked, it's why there are only nine handling the results of 1050 waste per minute.

[elder frost]

so waste -> 2x Blender with nonfis (75 waste) -> plut pellet in 1x Particle (25) waste -> 3x Assembles +Concreat - plut cells -> 2x manu Plut rods and sink

thats not half bad

[frosty owl]

What I meant to say is: feeding the manufacturers HALF the required Cells/min leads to them stalling half the time AND never pile up more than 30 Cells (else they go up to 60)

[frosty owl]

Numbers work out really well with multiples of 100 waste/min ;)

[cinder silo]

The blenders are also a slight radiological hazard , but that's only from 8 metres from the machines, the nearby particle accelerators are safe at any distance.

[frosty owl]

I usually have more issues with the PA than the blenders... How much waste do you have in them?

[cinder silo]

The waste between them is load balanced, I don't have time to reload my game as I need to be out the door in a couple of minutes.

[elder frost]

so 100 waste is one chain of the above listed.

[cinder silo]

Nine blenders feeding six particle accelerators, all clocked.

Back in a bit 👋

[elder frost]

soooo really the disposal chain isnt horrible,

now to math some rods

ideally with uranium fuel unit, and infused cells

[frosty owl]

Lovely 1:1 ratios

[small oasis]

This is odd to me, but most of my builds seem to break down to a 1/3 ratio or a 2/3 ratio. I just noticed this on my Fine Concrete build where I need 1 cheap silica to 3 fine concrete assemblers.

Is that a particular issue with Satisfactory?

[oblique hollow]

2/3 machine ratio usually

at 100%.
3 machines going into 2

its a common thing. same for 6 to 10 or other weird ratios

[astral tapir]

anytime, this is pretty close to the setup I went with, https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Wg7J6IHPto6ltfrTijKL There's more than enough resources right where the north forest, rocky desert, and new North Coast meet up to go from geo to coal to turbofuel, and probably even skip the turbofuel with the 4 normal and 1 pure coal nodes right there, theres 3 more pure coal nodes up by the crater lakes and you can pick up your caterium and sulfur there too. Super OP spot to get 100 gW+ running really easily and have enough leftover resources to use that power locally. Bauxites really the only problem, so just keep going past the crater lakes for it

I didnt want a bunch of refineries, so turned off most the pure recipes, it could be a lot more efficient. I also didnt use oil

The final recipes here should be the easiest, and you can figure out how you want to get to that point

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=dUvaqLHLA093KHR8tzZw more accurate version with easy electromagnetic control rods

if you're gonna play around with it, I limit the uranium input to 300, add 360 nuclear waste as an input and then turn on and off recipes until it looks easy

and dont build the water as loops back in to the system, sink your water product on wet concrete or something instead of attaching nonfissile uranium byproduct outfeed back to sulfuric acid, so you don't have to prime it or anyhting

[gilded gust]

i want one manufacturer making ammo and that needs a lot of gunpowder 😦

[tidal wren]

i have three way of making mixed content storage

1. allow for exact stack number, must be kept flowing or it break :
   it is a video on youtube, where you cut the flow of item to their stack size per minute

2. can be stopped, cant filter all item
   using filler item on merger to divise item flow by 3 or 2 and get the stack size per minute by removing filler item from final belt

3. can filter all item, havent tested yet:
   get all belt as multiple of mk1 and multiple of each other for ratio in storage need for output to be equal merger input to keep ratio

all of them break of you do not take all in storage when geting items
all of them need input to be full, or ratio break
all of them can be combined with the use of filler item in storage to limit stack number (except 3 if large variance of input, where huge flow of low stack size item fill stack space instead of the correct ratio)

also : you can use vehicule depot as item valve switchs : they do not take item in when powered off

maybe smart belt or belt valve in the future /hope

[ember fractal]

how much more power do alternate uranium recipes produce per unit of uranium ore?

[tidal wren]

not on computer so i cant play around with the satis factory calculator web page

but you can correlate the burn time of fuel rod (in nuclear power plant info : https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Nuclear_Power_Plant)
and the fuel rod page for efficiency of alternate recipe

there is also a google sheet that can be found on reddit by typing stuff like "satisfactory best alternate recipe" that can help

[vapid gorge]

use the tools to do plans with alternates vs regular. It's significant though. Like 2x as much

[proven prawn]

@oblique hollow guess who had a interesting discussion about pipe loops the other day...me😅

[vapid gorge]

That's a lie. Pipe loops can't be interesting.

[ionic galleon]

Anything's interesting to the right kind of nerd...

(said hypertube-nerd to circles-nerd)

[vapid gorge]

Lies 😛

[ionic galleon]

I mean fair, I'm actually many many different kinds of nerd rather than just that one 😛

[bright sentinel]

is anyone good at google spread sheets, I'm trying to do something and I don't quite know how.

its for another game, but I'm just hoping someone in here is good with spread sheets and can help ❤️

[sage torrent]

whatbyou trying to do

my skills with spreadsheets are a little rusty

i dont use them at all pretty much but i was taught a few things

[bright sentinel]

I have kind of a complicated system spitting out numbers according to some ratios that I put in to a certain group of things, and basicaly I would like to make a large output of many different combinations of ratios. Kind of like, print results when x=1 y=1 z=1 print results of x=2 y=1 z=1 , x=3 y=1 z=1, x=1 y=2 z=1 ,x=1 y=3 z=1 all the way to like x=10, y=10, w=10,z=10

[sage torrent]

so a ratio calculator?

[bright sentinel]

Then I can skim through the outputs of all the combinations and see what the best ratio is

cause it will spit out my bonus

[sage torrent]

give me a use case

an example where something like this would be applied so i can get a better picture

[bright sentinel]

let me just dm you the spread and briefly explain it

[sage torrent]

im at my phone rn so hopefully i can interpret it

[oblique hollow]

@keen shard this is what i imagine when you say 2 pipe balancer with 2 full mk 2 pipes

if its not this, then please draw an image of what you actually mean

[keen shard]

ooh drawing ok one sec

[oblique hollow]

Ven stop trolling

[keen shard]

@oblique hollow I just want the two pipes to help eachother when their contents are used around the base of idk what my friend is using it for.

But I know ill be using some for infused frames

[oblique hollow]

balancer at the beginning does nothing. it cannot compensate because you cannot balance 2 full pipes or belts

you would need to connect the second pipe at the end of the bottom pipe

so it forms a big "U" shape

[keen shard]

like this?

[oblique hollow]

yep. but without the balancer at the beginning

if anything, it belongs in the middle

[keen shard]

thats gonna be hard to know where the middle is gonna be

its a very organic factory

[oblique hollow]

just guess

[keen shard]

or idiotic factory knowing my friends

[oblique hollow]

if flow rate drops to less than half in one pipe, there is the "middle"

because with a half full pipe you can start doing balancing

[snow dove]

i wouldnt rely on full mk2 pipes

[keen shard]

does it matter if the pipes are ontop of eachother? its gas btw

[oblique hollow]

no gas has no head lift

[snow dove]

they have some issues with getting max throughput

[oblique hollow]

just make a big U shape and then hope it work

[keen shard]

we are not running a 100% factory, i just need the gas to show its face somewhere down there

some time before lunch would be ideal

[oblique hollow]

yeah the U shape is good enough for that

[keen shard]

cool, appriciate the advice

[oblique hollow]

btw

check the pins in here

theres a pipe manual.
it has recently been updated

[keen shard]

oooooo need a new copy then

[low yoke]

how many radio units / min am i gonna need for some basic numbers of higher grade item?

[versed violet]

Power question: How much power usage a "big build" guys see? Is 36 Nukes (180GW) enough to power everything but max-point builds?
I'm planning to sink Turbomotors for points, prefer to use "energy efficient" recipes, and need to know how much nitrogen I can use for them.

[sage torrent]

energy efficiency was never of my conern

concern*

[snow dove]

same

[versed violet]

got any base size + energy use numbers for comparison?

[snow dove]

it’s pretty hard to use all the power

unless your maxing every node

[sage torrent]

hows 16GW total consumtion to 81GW production

before nuclear?

and half the map under my control with most necessary parts automate

[versed violet]

I'm currently using roughly 50GW of my 180GW available. Wondering if I'll need more = more nitrogen for waste processing. My plan is to put a miner on every node ingame 🙂
[and sink the ore, because my pc would melt if I tried to rocess it all]

[sage torrent]

oh goodness me

how about using all 2100/min uranium

[versed violet]

that would be like 100+ nukes. Seems like overkill?

[sage torrent]

630GW total power production

[snow dove]

it’s not overkill, it’s worth it

[sage torrent]

😁

[versed violet]

no no no, my company policy is to be energy efficient!

[sage torrent]

well idk my approach on power is to go completely overkill on the grid

[snow dove]

most energy efficient factory would be like 300k machines running at 1%

[sage torrent]

that is until the devs hopefully change the OCing system

[versed violet]

Would be nice if they fixed the below 100% energy to be linear, and made the power generators oc in increments of 33,(3)%

[wintry aurora]

Hey @wind spade , SatisCalculator doesn't appear to do anything with the silica from alumina solution on experimental branch, but on closer inspection, it does show it in the math, just doesn't show the 50 silica line going to the ingots like it normally should. https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=k2L6xH1z5oo0OIO5Vz83

[wind spade]

😉

[wintry aurora]

Oh lol, dang positioning.

[ember fractal]

RIPs are the only "conveyer" material that doesn't stack to 200.
Doesn't bother me, because I never use mk2 belts after a certain point in the game. But still, consistency....

[deft lichen]

?? EIB don't stack to 200 either

[fresh heron]

Yo any tips for starting out

[signal nimbus]

Good luck, have fun, don't worry about efficiency yet, and build more power plants than you think you need because it still won't be enough.

[deft lichen]

collect tons of foliage at the start and build biomass burners once available

process all leaves/wood to biomass, it's better

[versed violet]

then to solid biofuel once its unlocked

[fresh heron]

Alright#

[ashen solar]

@fresh heron another tip, once you got foundations, always build on foundations

[vapid nest]

very proud of my modular engine makeshift factory

Producing an astonishing 5.5 modular engines per minute, unfortunately I still have to feed them by hand, I haven't unlocked full automization yet

[ashen solar]

no inputs ?

thats cheating 👀

[vapid nest]

🤫

[livid meteor]

Any document or so where I can read up the meta recipes for ressource efficiency?

For example I thought about just using pure iron ingots, crafting them to steel steel and then to steel coated plates to maximize iron plates 🤔

[fresh heron]

alrighty thanks

[astral tapir]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Hard_Drive/Alternate_recipe_analysis

[livid meteor]

Thanks buddy

[wind spade]

outdated and opinionated, not recommended

[wind spade]

depends on how you value which raw resources. For example satisfactorytools does calculate with resource efficiency in mind, so you'll always get the most "resource efficient" path (with resources weighted by their availability, so rarer resources are weighted more)

[vapid gorge]

I was looking at it and at first was going 'oh this is fairly objective' but yeah it gets weirder as you go down

And I think they're actually just wrong about their Turbo Pressure alt

[wind spade]

That's what happens when you crowdsource analysis

[sage torrent]

i agree with some of the recipes on there

[ionic galleon]

Definitely important to tag it as such, but still a great resource. I use it a lot, and I just ignore the bits based on stuff that I don't care about or don't agree with.

[vapid gorge]

The worry though is people coming into it fresh and taking it for truth

[sage torrent]

but when i get there again i wanna up my power output by using turbofuel

my last save was 81GW of regular fuel

[vapid gorge]

That's a thicc power station

[sage torrent]

i know lol

[vapid gorge]

you can hear it's smoke stacks clapping from kilometers away

[sage torrent]

thats why i put them way in the air

its a tower factory but i wanna optimize my oil use

reading that page iirc the most efficient was 148 gens off of 300 oil?

[vapid gorge]

There are SO many combinations of oil -> generator though... SO many

[sage torrent]

i know 💀 and when i get there im just gonna console you guys for the most efficient combo

using turbofuel since i dont have to rng it

[vapid gorge]

power efficient or logistic efficient?

[sage torrent]

pretty sure regular turbofuel is better than the heavy turbofuel

[sage torrent]

im fine with handling logistics so energy efficient

i wanna shatter that 81GW lol

[vapid gorge]

oil > HOR > diluted fuel > classic turbo fuel

uses a butt ton of coal and sulfur. You'll want to figure out if yo uwant to train those in or pipe the oil elsewhere

[sage torrent]

probably gonna train it in when i get there

my strat is to get trains and just buy the computers with tickets

otherwise i craft it all before i automate because it makes life way easier on me

[vapid gorge]

Yeah figure out whats easiest for you 🙂 I like moving oil to places as the more complex recipes blow out the parts per min. Like it's easier for me to move 3000 oil pm than 9000 rubber

[sage torrent]

yeah honestly

[vapid gorge]

and it's been a long time since I looked at the numbers but it's a LOT of coal and sulfur

One of the reasons I use Blended Turbo

[sage torrent]

but the way ive done it is i train my raw resources or i pre-process my resources to be trained in

thats how i did my comps factory

[vapid gorge]

However you enjoy it 🙂

[sage torrent]

training in copious amounts of screws 😁

[vapid gorge]

Sorry - you're just objectively wrong on that one 😛

[sage torrent]

i most likely am

[vapid gorge]

XD

[sage torrent]

but self taught player here lol

[vapid gorge]

I mostly am just annoyed at the idea of a train car moving around the world with like 2 stacks of wire in the whole car

[ionic galleon]

Hey, trains will carry 24k screws per car...

[sage torrent]

see what i mean though

the freight platform storage is more than enough too

[ionic galleon]

Also lol @ self-taught, I never realised there was an alternative until now

[sage torrent]

i could even tie my outputs to a sink and still have excess

i only used mk4 belts so they transfer almost a stack/min

[vapid gorge]

it's the expanding parts per minute issue.

When moving things from base to base, if you want to simplify logistics, you move parts after you've shrunk them down. Like going Iron - > motors. That's far fewer motors per min than the iron you'd use right?

Same with wire and screws. Move the ingots first as when you turn them into wire or screws your parts per minute blows out

[sage torrent]

when i looked on scim at the prod line i didnt bother with wire and screws and just dedicated nodes to producing one product entirely

[ionic galleon]

I like having industrial containers on input and output for every freight platform, just because the platform in/out stops working during load/unload.

[sage torrent]

actually how come i never thought of that

[ionic galleon]

True, but for trains the relevant metric is stacks/min rather than parts/min.

[sage torrent]

thats a great solution to the in/out freeze for the 25 seconds thatll cause a 0.1% reduction in efficiency

[vapid gorge]

BUT you can only get in the parts per min at a certain rate right? You're unlikely going ot have a train route that lets you get anywhere near 24k screws filled

[sage torrent]

itd be unnecessary to train in say one stack per offload

[elder frost]

10.8 and 43.2 to maximize what im using but not bad thanks for the link

[sage torrent]

well its just a matter of time really

[vapid gorge]

The 'standard' solution to train cars is to have an industrial container buffer using both ports to go in/out of the train car to deal with the transfer loss time when loadin/unloading

[sage torrent]

again, self taught until now 😁

[vapid gorge]

even with 2 mk5s filling a platform full of screws all the time... trains are pretty quick. You'll wind up with lots of empty space and need more cars to move the items

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah thats fair, was just letting you know 🙂

[ionic galleon]

True, that'd be a 15-min round trip to allow fully filling a platform with screws.

(for reference, my Al Ingot train is 4:35 round trip - I timed it yesterday)

[sage torrent]

iirc i was producing way more screws than i needed for 5 vanilla comps/min so i think it was bound to fill

[vapid gorge]

yeah I think even pushing 10min round trip would be hard

[vapid gorge]

oh was this to go to a storage or something?

[sage torrent]

yeah i used my freight platforms for my storage lol

idk i find it funny that after a certain point my train was just running around with a full car for screws barely offloading a stack per dock

[vapid gorge]

I don't know how to feel about central storages.

I understand the desire to make them, but they are just so fiddly. I'd rather just zoop by train or cannon, move a few stacks of whatever so I'm set at my new project for a while

[ionic galleon]

Honestly I'm only even making screws in one place (and quite slowly) - they're not actually on my train network.

[vapid gorge]

oh that'll happen quick - you're not pulling stuff out of central storage fast. You might want to sink it

[sage torrent]

my 'network' is a bunch of separate dedicated lines

i need to learn train infrastructure to progress lategame

but what i wanna do is go look at scim blueprints for highways and run pipes under them to make my infrastructure pretty

[ionic galleon]

I mean there's a bunch of different ways to do it - right now I just happen to like integrated universal skyrail.

[sage torrent]

i plan to try my hand at a modular save

which is my aim right now

[ionic galleon]

I dislike trucks etc tbh - I don't use them at all. Did have a highway network in a previous save though.

[sage torrent]

i chose the dune desert since there is ever so much free space to work with

[vapid gorge]

You can do that yourself pretty easily. My now obsolete train/bus #old-questions-and-help message

[sage torrent]

so do i because i dont find them efficient and speedy enough

that and theyre buggy as hell

[ionic galleon]

Bingo.

[sage torrent]

i dont really know how to get the curves

or even just clipping the foundations

at a decent angle anyway

probably soft clearance though

[vapid gorge]

oh I think I linked the wrong one

#screenshots message

And train curves are annoying to figure out on your own - find a YT tutorial, it's actually pretty simple once you see it in action

[ionic galleon]

Whereas with trains, I know exactly how to make the rails go where I want them to.

Elegant curved rails on a square foundation grid.

[sage torrent]

idk how to get crisp 90 degree turns or how to keep them straight

i discovered i can make the rails straight by building separate straight rails off a turn

but it still has an ugly turn thats too wide for my liking

i wish theyd work like belts where you can turn the pole to get your angle turn and fine tune from there

[vapid gorge]

I think this is a solid video for your needs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCeUd-eJCdg

[ionic galleon]

To keep them straight: build a temporary straight rail (2 foundations long), and snap to that. Oh yeah, you got that.
Crisp 90 degree turns are about getting the geometry right.

[sage torrent]

ive always eyeballed it lol

[ionic galleon]

Oh and are you always building on foundations?

[vapid gorge]

yeah no eyeballing if you want neat rails sorry XD

[sage torrent]

yeah lol

i hate the clipping

[sage torrent]

just wishing theyd work like poles and stay on a specific angle lol

i think itll make it a lot easier for me imp

[ionic galleon]

Good. On foundations you can eyeball it, given some constraint. So for instance for my non-interfering turnaround, I place the middle bit by finding the point on the foundation boundary where the rail is perfectly lined up.

The thing with conveyors is, they can do /really/ small-radius turns in order make all that stuff work. Rails just can't do that - their turn radius is large.

[sage torrent]

i realize that one

i believe you just take an L shape and connect them at the ends

[wind spade]

Well you didn't tag it as such 😛

[ionic galleon]

Not me, but someone did 😛

[wind spade]

sorry too early for me to be on discord

[ionic galleon]

5:30pm here, but still yeah absolutely I'm with you

[wind spade]

8 am at the time of sending my first message 😄

[brittle thunder]

slopes remain the only bit of rails I hate, trying to stop them being 'wibbly'

[ionic galleon]

I was about to say that's unavoidable, but then I thought of a solution. So uh, thanks for prompting me to actually think about it.

[brittle thunder]

let me know if the solutions work out, I'll redo my slopes! lol

[ionic galleon]

Yep, works exactly as planned. Short version: You know how you place short straight bits of track temporarily, for something to connect to? Do that, but sloped.

[brittle thunder]

how do you snap it to the slope? Can't remember if I've tried it to be fair

[ionic galleon]

Build a foundation ramp. Personally I'm actually placing the rail joins in the middle of foundations now, but it still works fine.

All that matters is the two endpoints of the guiding rail that you're placing.

[brittle thunder]

yeah, all my stuff is on ramps anyway

[ionic galleon]

I'm about to go do my big slope - two rails, 36m elevation change, and like... about a km of horizontal distance

Will let you know if it plays nice with such a shallow gradient - offhand I think I'll have to use actual full-length track segments as guide rails

[brittle thunder]

I have a couple of big slopes, main one being from my base at grassy plains up over the waterfall to pink forest

heading for 250m elevation gain

[ionic galleon]

Should work fine for any of them - just gotta get the gradient right on the guidance rail

jumps in hypertube

[ionic galleon]

Ah, placing on foundation ramps doesn't quite work because the rail curves to avoid clipping. Working on it

[brittle thunder]

thats a brutal climb, lol, will take a while to redo it properly

[ionic galleon]

Damn, haven't yet figured out how to make it perfectly straight when its slope doesn't match a foundation ramp.

If your climb does happen to climb at one of those rates though, then this should work great already.

(1m, 2m, or 4m climb for each 8m horizontal)

[brittle thunder]

yeah, thats all 2m ramps, I don't bother with 1, and 4 seems too steep to be effective

[ionic galleon]

Ah nice, so you're sorted then. Just use 2m ramps to place your rail segments.

Should be perfectly straight.

Just uh, bit trickier for me with my 4-in-96 climb rate <.<

[fierce ruin]

just started a new world i forgot how painful it is

and i get bored at the start on my own

[ionic galleon]

I'm redoing my slope with 1m ramps, which is /still/ 3x steeper than what I had. Just climbing 36m in 288m instead of in 864m.

And it's beautifully straight on that slope. ^_^

[ionic galleon]

In other news, I've just used the console to do some speed testing on my hypertubes. Top speed right now is about 750 m/s (nearly Mach 2), and the comfortable travel speed that I've been going for seems to be about 150 m/s (nearly Mach 0.5).

[cinder silo]

I found with the hyper cannons massive diminishing returns past 31 stages because you spend most of the time accelerating rather than crossing the map.

[ionic galleon]

For reference, that top speed is 22.5x faster than the train's level-track top speed. And even the comfortable traveling speed is uh... 4.5x the train speed.

[ionic galleon]

Oh for sure, I'm not trying for max speed at all - offhand I think the most stages I use at once is about 7. Diminishing returns also apply to the utility of each further speed increase.

[cinder silo]

I mostly aimed for 7-15 second travel time from anywhere to anywhere.

So I add/remove stages to get that.

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, reckon you won't be using 31 stages for that lol

[cinder silo]

I have several 31 stage cannons that achieve 13 second results from the central dunes to the western coast.

[ionic galleon]

Huh, I stand corrected. Wouldn't have thought it'd take that many.

[cinder silo]

I tend to add/remove sections until I get a speed I'm happy with.

The transport hub to power station run takes about 8 seconds to accelerate, definitely not worth adding more than 31.

[ionic galleon]

How long are your stages?

[cinder silo]

See for yourself.

This is a collection of cannons before the tunnels were constructed.

Same build, different cannon that I was building underwater.

[ionic galleon]

I'm confused. Your spacing's the same as mine, I don't /think/ leaving the supports makes a difference, and yet mine accelerate me much quicker.

[cinder silo]

Some of the return tubes are faster because they go down a shaft and through the cannon at speed, the outbounds are completely level.

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, but you say it takes 8 seconds to accelerate. That makes no sense to me.

[cinder silo]

You can see the acceleration time for yourself in the clip, half the travel time right across the entire map is speeding up.

[ionic galleon]

Can't see shit in the clip tbh, or at least not in the tube. The rest of the build looks amazing btw, when you're slow enough to see it.

But like, when I'm accelerating I hear the stages like a machine gun.

[cinder silo]

The power station on the clip is at the top of the waterfall in the grassy fields, my hub is dead centre of the dunes.

Problem with my game is it is **WAY **over the object limit, that'll impact my cannons ability to accelerate, hence so many sections.

[ionic galleon]

That must be the difference, then.

[cinder silo]

The main issue is the marked travel times will no doubt drift as I build more 😦

That station has 16 outbound cannons for intra-map travel, 13 of them are completed.

Each destination shows how many outbound/return stage and travel time each way as timed by a stopwatch.

Underwater construction for the cannons star start there was made way easier by a slight bug I stumbled on 😄

[ionic galleon]

Just timed the slow direction of my long route: Aluminum -> Oil -> Base. Took 32 seconds. It's a level L-shaped path, probably about 5km. Gonna time the fast direction now.

[cinder silo]

I built the cannonway as a transport solution because it could take 3-5 minutes to get to and from some places, too slow.

[ionic galleon]

Huh, still like 20 seconds for 5km in the fast direction. Slower than I thought.

[cinder silo]

5km can be done in 8, how many stages are you using?

[ionic galleon]

7 at the initial booster, then two more sets along the way.

Also designing so that I can actually slow down and step off at the station partway if I want.

[cinder silo]

That could actually slow you mildly, I keep the cannon stages in one cluster.

Mine are point to point hypercannons with a brake at the end to prevent physics failures.

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, whereas mine's a network that's ultimately intended to be navigable.

Steerable.

So we're kinda solving different problems, and don't get me wrong I'm not here to criticise your approach. I was just surprised that it takes you so long to accelerate, when for me it's machine-gun

[elder frost]

if at object limit and calculations are delayed it could have an impact

[maiden oracle]

yo can someone help me calculate how many pumps and miners i need for my power grid dm me pls

[elder frost]

im game

[cinder silo]

This is a 5km trip (the length of the travel tube not as the crow flies)

The UObject thing definitely has a very large impact, it's why I had to develop the brake in the first place because otherwise physics stopped working properly allowing me to smash through walls, floors, mountains and die off the map.

[cinder silo]

I wouldn't mind seeing how your system is built, mine is more hub & spokes for travel.

[ionic galleon]

Just checked, that long route of mine is just over 4.5km

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, I've never tried to capture video from a game

[cinder silo]

The building underwater thing with the hoverpack is through abusing ladders, falling and swapping to hovering before the game thinks it's time to swim 😄

OBS is brilliant for capture, I have loads to learn which is why my clips are all unedited right now.

Thanks to the speed, it is faster to cannon from the power station back to the dunes, and take a second cannon to uranium fuel manufacture, than it is to cross the bridge.

[ionic galleon]

I actually learned how to use OBS a few years back, when my then-employer wanted us to do videos presenting our work. Just never tried to capture gameplay

Cool cool, will play with that. Dualscreen defs helps

[cinder silo]

I plan on videoing a whole bunch of shorts to act as guides to some of my building Shennanigans because I think that will be able to help others 🙂

A more professional version of this one for a start, how to hoverpack and NOT swim while underwater.

[wintry aurora]

I guess the water doesn’t slow you down when it comes to the hypertubes?

[cinder silo]

No time, water doesn't even get to take over if you drop off a ladder (falling) and hit space before you transition to swimming and hover instead (it doesn't check again)

[neat ravine]

how do i make an efficient power solution that wont end up being a mess like this?

[wind spade]

run a belt next to the machines, run the pipe above the belt, connect both to machines 🙂

[neat ravine]

can i just place the pipe above? doesnt it need the supports ?

ill try

[wind spade]

well you can remove the supports afterwards

[neat ravine]

[deft lichen]

1. build on foundations

[neat ravine]

ok i didnt know that

[neat ravine]

will do

[vapid gorge]

also a good tip is to find some more distant coal next to water. That way you don't have to move a bunch of items to it

[brittle thunder]

power production on/just above the water is easier/tidier for sure, if slightly harder to expand (once you have a few coal plants, it should get you to Diluted fuel anyway)

Whole thing approx. 2 meters above the water, zero complication. As I said, only downside is that its a PITA to expand much further

[vapid gorge]

You could even have the layer of water extractors under your coal generators to give you extra space 🙂

[brittle thunder]

yeah, but I like not having to pump. I'm guessing the height of the extractors is going to be pretty close to head height limit

(including the 'bit of a gap' plus headroom)

[neat ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD1p0tT6FJo
this looks promising

[wind spade]

kinda offtopic rant:
I hate videos with "efficient" in title. It doesn't specify which kind of efficiency they mean and what makes the setup so efficient
/rant

[fresh heron]

yo just unlcoked base building what foundation level should I build out of

[vapid gorge]

what do you mena?

[neat ravine]

probably the 1,2 and 4 meter versions

[fresh heron]

yeah

[wind spade]

that's really up to you

[fresh heron]

I see

[wind spade]

iirc they are all the same cost and it's just visual preference

[fresh heron]

Do you think foundations are a good idea overall or should I just continue to build on ground]

[wind spade]

you can do what you feel like is working for you. A lot of people will say you need to build on foundations, but personally I think as long as it isn't giving you issues, building on the ground is perfectly fine

[fresh heron]

alrighty thank you

[vapid gorge]

it is however a lot easier to keep things neat tidy and organised if you care about that with foundations

[vapid nest]

It also allows you to make buildings, of course you can build something around it and call it a day, personally for me tho a building needs foundations

[elder frost]

build the coal gens over the lower lake, extractors in the upper, flow the water down the little river and grav feed the gens, can do a whole host of power there

[brittle thunder]

Fair, but by the time I needed more than 4 GW I was well into fuel, anyway, but optimisation is always good!

[elder frost]

totally doable, im moving with a friend from about a 7k power to nuclear with a staged start

we are working on setting up the raw resources in, and the factory to go full 200 nuke plant mega power so thats gonna be a blast

and a lot of radiation when its all done xD

[vapid nest]

I need to balance some stuff, any tips on that?

[elder frost]

splitters?

[vapid nest]

Yes of course

[elder frost]

and using lower tier belts to rate limit if required

[vapid nest]

It's just super specific

[elder frost]

depends how much you are trying to balance

[elder frost]

then give us the specifics?

[vapid nest]

OUT: 721.669 Iron
Splits:
225/min
180/min
150/min
166.667/min

Just collect everything in 2 Mk4 belts and then overflow?

[oblique hollow]

overflow is probably easier at that point

[elder frost]

^, otherwise you could make a really fancy split/merge/belt rate limiter

[vapid nest]

Yea, never done that before

[elder frost]

its super messy vs just overflowing

[frosty owl]

Quite convoluted, but sure, I find that a fun puzzle to solve. Note: Smart-split=use a smart splitter to send items in one way and overflow on another, to make a full belt (or 2 if using both outputs) + overflow belt. Output marked in bold.

• Smart-split 120 and 480 from source and merge them to get a 600/min belt + overflow belt
• Split 600 in 450 and 150
• Split 450 in half to get 225
  -Smart split 60 and 120 from the other 225 to make 180
  -Merge all loose ends to have the 166.667

[fresh heron]

if something says that it will generate 5 per minute how would I decrease the time it takes

[oblique hollow]

overclock

or make more machines

if one thing makes 5/min two things make 10/min

[fresh heron]

i see thank ytou

[vapid nest]

Thanks alot, I will be using that when I revamp my production chains. Unfortunately the maximum I can transport atm is 470, I could unlock mk5, but I don't have the resources to build them yet

[ashen solar]

you mean 480

made me google it lol. Just got the mk4 and built all my stuff to take 480 items I thought I messed up 😅

[vapid nest]

oh right, yea

[frosty owl]

Oh. My bad. Should I adapt the balancer to MK4 or would you like to do that yourself? ^^

[vapid nest]

Nono don't worry, I will do a multiple manifold overflow system. Couldn’t possibly go wrong, right?

[frosty owl]

Not as long as you respect throughputs 👍

[vapid nest]

meaning right belt for total amount

[frosty owl]

Just never merge more than a belt can handle

[ember fractal]

What mk belt from manifold to machine? Mk5 always, or lowest that can still support machine's needs?

[wind spade]

highest possible, always

[vapid nest]

always? Why?

[paper mulch]

i have a question for you all beautifull brainiacs

which is better in the long run diluted fuel or turbo blend ?

[wind spade]

using higher mks leads to slightly faster fill times (or rather, to slightly faster stabilisation)

[wind spade]

that depends on your definition of better

[tidal wren]

both, both are good
though turbo fuel i think is more work than worth

[paper mulch]

would it be sustainable to use turbo fuel for 230+ gen's and still have sulfur left for batteries and such?

[wind spade]

definitely. Although I generally recommend to go nuclear

coal -> diluted (packaged) fuel -> nuclear

[paper mulch]

i just reached stage 4 and im now going to tear everythign down and rebuild a proper factory not the mess i have now so was wondering if turbo or diluted fuel should be better**

[wind spade]

imo turbofuel is worth if you don't plan to go nuclear later, otherwise just stay with diluted fuel, the extra complexity isn't worth the extra power, given that diluted fuel already produces tons of power and nuclear then outscales everything

[paper mulch]

aight then packaged diluted itl be thx for the info , yeah seen a bit bout nuclear already kinda scared on the size of itl be taking up

[wind spade]

but that's mostly just my opinion, not a fact, it's your world, so do what you want to do 😄

nuclear itself is pretty easy https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TNFpwrJBeYEqgLHDfqS0

basically you already know how to make encased industrial beams and electromagnetic control rods, you just have to make the extra encased uranium cell

slightly more complex is if you want to process the uranium waste to plutonium rods, but it's not that much worse

[paper mulch]

atm imnot even sure on how to redo the entire factory so its all automated or to just start fresh over and keep it all going but move very slowly lol

[wind spade]

best is to keep the old factory running and slowly build the new one separately

easy way to do stuff is to have each factory only produce a few products from raw resources, so that everything is separate and near nodes it needs

[paper mulch]

yeah then i was sitting ont he mather of i never know how high to build exactly and then to use trains or not

[ember fractal]

Trains yes, drones yes

[vapid nest]

Phew, just finished half of my HMF factory. Well, to be spefici it's 2/3 but still... Annoying part is coming up next

[vapid gorge]

You can use lower mks it just takes longer to stabalize. You can solve that mostly by hand filling your machines before starting up the process.

I use mk1s and 2s because I want to show the lifts feeding the machines as a display and I think slower belt feeds look better

[past prairie]

is there any way to bypass the mk5 conveyor belt, as to transport a 1200 iron/min miner?

or to circumvent into 2 (or more belts)?

[vapid gorge]

@stray shoal might be better to continue in this channel

[stray shoal]

Agreed

[vapid gorge]

But yeah I did a big world import export sheet to keep track of what my hubs needed and what was available in the zones I'd created. It was an interesting problem

[charred wraith]

Okay, maybe it's been covered in this thread before but the discord search function hasn't helped me find it.
Looking at Recycled Rubber and Recycled Plastic recipes, essentially divide the amount of provided Fuel in half and that's how much Rubber/Plastic you get out?
So in the most basic form (as pictured), you make two refineries, one for each recipe, put 60 Rubber or Plastic in each one, then provide 60 fuel per minute, and it will give you 30 of each per minute. You never have to provide any more Rubber or Plastic again, it just keeps doubling whatever it started with

[vapid gorge]

Until you run out of fuel.

I think there's probably a lot of ways to approach how you do each step though

The 'simplest' is to probably make Residual Rubber and use that as your initial feed stock to start the system

[charred wraith]

So I was working off of this recipe, to get 405 Turbofuel per minute (90 Fuel Generators).
I can't get the calculator to show what I wanted it to do, but instead of having a byproduct of 200 Polymer resin per minute, I just had 2x Residual Rubber (40 in/20 out) and 2x Residual Plastic (60 in/ 20 out) so that the production of Plastic and Rubber are equal

[vapid gorge]

Yeah in general it's tough getting a good diagram of a recycled loop that is JUST dedicated to a recycled loop.

I'm not saying you can't include it in a power infrastructure I'd recommend against it

[charred wraith]

So this is where I'm at so far, just need to build more Fuel Generators

[vapid gorge]

cool, you still wanting help including a recycled loop there?

and out of curiosity what do you need the 157 rubber and plastic per minute for?

[charred wraith]

So that I can deal with the Polymer Resin to make the Turbofuel

[vapid gorge]

oh why don't you just sink the resin then?

[charred wraith]

Less "waste"? Means it can actually be used for something

I've got the loop (top left of the image) but I'm wondering if I actually need them to be supplied with inputs from the Residual Rubber/Plastic

[vapid gorge]

I guess?

So just personally, my position with power infrastructure is that it should be as independent from other production as possible.

If you're just concerned with 'waste' how about

turn the resin to Rubber, burn the fuel for more power?

[charred wraith]

Since they're already started (and full belts between) I don't think I need them connected

[vapid gorge]

or you can use Residual Plastic, which is a bit less productive than Residual Rubber and have some plastic and save the fuel for more power

yeah I just tried making a sketch how you'd evenly make plastic and rubber out of it and it's messy numbers to work with.

It's possible but it's going to take planning and notes and sketches and math to get an even production with what you're working with

[charred wraith]

So scrapping the Recycled Rubber/Plastic loop from the equation, this is a setup for just Turbofuel

And for the polymer resin, same method as I mentioned before, 2x Residual Rubber, 2x Residual Plastic (80 + 120 polymer resin in, even Rubber and Plastic out)

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that'd work

[charred wraith]

I'm basing it off only 300 crude oil input in, so that I can scale it for each node

[vapid gorge]

You'll want to add a train or something to take the plastic/rubber to be used and an Awesomesink to shred extra plastic/rubber otherwise your power station will clog

[charred wraith]

This beach area has 4 nodes with different qualities, 2x pure (max 600 p/m) and 2x normal (max 300p/m) so in total I'd be making 6 times the setup in the graph

[vapid gorge]

That's a monster power set up 🙂

88GW~

[charred wraith]

I need a train here anyway (pictured bottom left) to deliver compacted coal

[vapid gorge]

You might consider what you want to do later and how big you want to go, for example it might be easier to build a smaller tf station and build nuclear later. but that depends on what yo uwant to do tbh

[charred wraith]

So total would give me 4000 Turbofuel per minute, meaning ~888 Fuel Generators, or 133,333MW

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah did a number wrong.

133GW is more than enough to do late game stuff. So if you can't be bothered with nuclear that's an option. 900 fuel generators IS a bit of a pain though. Also hard to make not ugly

if you overclock nuclear reactors for example you'd get something similar from 30

[ionic galleon]

Nope. There's currently no automated way to get more than 780/min out of a miner, even when the miner itself can go faster than that. Mk.6 and Mk.7 conveyors should be a thing though, eventually.

[brittle thunder]

5 is already at the limit of the game engine

[ionic galleon]

Yeah, they're gonna have to figure out some way around that.

[vapid gorge]

eh there's so many resources already trying to use them all will murder your computer

[ionic galleon]

Yeah but I'd much rather run a single Mk.3 Miner @ 250% on a Pure node, than set up a bunch of miners to add up to that throughput. Cleaner, y'know?

Especially when there's a single Pure node somewhere and not a lot of lesser nodes around it.

[vapid gorge]

What if they changed pure nodes to max out at 780 with mk3 miners?

[ionic galleon]

And hey, so far I've never yet managed to make my machine drop below 60fps on this game afaik

[ionic galleon]

But then a Pure node would only give like 78/min for a Mk.1 miner without OC

(we already have Impure nodes for that)

[vapid gorge]

I think the main issue is people feel like 'there's free resources I can't use there!'

which is fine? But it's effectively just asking for more nodes.

Which IS fine... but.. not needed? There's lots of choices to do. I think it irks people that there's 'possible' resources. But not really

Pretty sure impure does 30pm on mk1s

[ionic galleon]

Yeah my bad, so Normal node equiv

[vapid gorge]

30 60 and 78. Still ok

[ionic galleon]

Honestly I'm not even worried about maximising global resource extraction - my frustration, admittedly fairly minor, is having the resources Right Here but not being able to use them.

[hexed spindle]

I wonder what the costly parts of conveyors are. For example, how much performance is gained by making a "covered conveyor belt" where they don't have to render the items moving on the belt.

[ionic galleon]

Has anyone measured performance difference between enclosed and non-enclosed conveyor runs?

[vapid gorge]

I think because of the wide variety of pcs settings and other types of things in the world it's hard to weed out what's causing the performance hits.

[ionic galleon]

True, but direct comparison testing should tell us /something/.

(but if no one's wanted to put in the effort for that, then honestly that's fair)

[vapid gorge]

I think it would take a lot of work for not very specific information yeah

you'd probably have to put down hundreds if not thousands of lengths of belts, some versions with many sections, some with long sections, some moving lots of items some moving not many.... sounds like hell

[ionic galleon]

Should be simpler than that, I'd have thought. Maybe four long test belts: short-segments vs long-segments, enclosed vs visible. All out-and-back. Test by saturating each belt separately, since (I believe) empty belts aren't a performance issue.

[vapid gorge]

any objects hit performance, I'd imagine moving objects do more with animation, and I figure saturated belts probably do more?

And I'm not sure if 4 long belts would make enough of a hit to really tell from the base game

[ionic galleon]

I'm thinking local game, watch performance metrics in Task Manager.

[vapid gorge]

again will it be enough of a hit that you could differentiate it from the random little changes going on in your computer? Maybe

[ionic galleon]

Impulse to test this myself right now: rising

[vapid gorge]

do it. Many people would be curious

Though I guess it would make more of a difference if you could compare how much of a hit it is compared to static objects

like... are 2 belts only marginally worse than 2 walls?

I know in my world other objects far outnumber belts for example

belts would have to be monster hogs to make a dent for me

[ionic galleon]

Just built a 1km skyroad, gonna run 2km conveyors and see if I can tell anything useful

[frosty owl]

||Ahahahah I'm in danger ||

[oblique hollow]

as far as i remember from the devs, it doesnt affect anything

[oblique hollow]

Ben optimized belts in a way where there are no objects, its all instanced meshes with no collision

and some magic animation texture storing location values

[vapid gorge]

Iiiiinnnnnnnteresting. Now I'm really curious how they impact performance compared to obj

[oblique hollow]

the thing is that covering belts doesnt prevent them from rendering

[ionic galleon]

So I went on a bit of a world tour while keeping an eye on my CPU usage (client only). Can see about a 2x difference in client CPU load between heavy and light areas, so I reckon I'll be able to see any significant difference if there is one.

[frosty owl]

Aka items on belts are part of the belts' (texture?) shader

[vapid gorge]

Yeah there’s a mod for covered belts, would be curious about the dif

[ionic galleon]

So, empty belts are making no discernible difference here. Just built 2x1km Mk.5 belts - CPU usage is about 2% lower at the more remote end, but building the second belt made no difference to either end. Gonna try loading it now, see if that changes anything.

[vapid gorge]

You might want to do it in a zig zag so it's all in one spot. Since we're not sure when the computer will stop having to do as much work to simulate belts

[ionic galleon]

Eh, I've got a 1008m run that doubles back on itself - that's good enough for me for now, given that I'm testing at both ends. Can run another out-and-back on top if I want though

Meanwhile, speeds just cause I could:

• Running with Blades on Foundations: 13.5 m/s
• Mk.5 belt speed: 15.6 m/s
• Running with Blades on Mk.5 belt: 29.1 m/s (perfectly consistent)

Out-and-back conveyor loop should take 2:09.5

(this is probably all known, but hey I'm having fun)

Got 2:10.5, so yeah that's close enough for me.