off-topic-tech

[jagged snow]

We do on passport or realID compliant cards and military IDs
Otherwise no

[twin dew]

Like I said, they don't even have federal level ID cards or like.
Or generally even state level ones.

[jagged snow]

My state/gov id didn't require it, passport did

[jagged snow]

RealID is as close as we get but it's not mandatory

[twin dew]

Just fuckton of different IDs from different sources.
With drivers licenses being the most common, at state level.

[jagged snow]

Yep

[night girder]

Exactly.

[jagged snow]

Exactly what?

[twin dew]

That specific, very uncommon, high-security intended, forms of ID have fingerprinting?

[night girder]

🤣

[jagged snow]

Ah, yeah
For context since I'm the only American in this convo

RealID is a federal standard for compliant IDs with a much more modern security standard. The federal gov has left it up to the individual states to implement it, and all of them have decided to do it alongside their drivers license. The side-effect of that is that if you're not military, don't have a passport, and don't drive, you can't take domestic flights

And there is still no "centralized" id database to go along with that system

Individuals are still tracked/registered with their state of residence

[twin dew]

And that requirement is from this spring.
Before that you basically didn't need any ID for domestic flights AFAIK.

[dire igloo]

iirc ID isn't mandatory in US

[jagged snow]

You still needed a state id, it just didn't have to be compliant with the stricter security requirements

[jagged snow]

Still blows my mind that it is elsewhere

IMO that's a big human rights issue, actually

Or at least has the potential to be one

[twin dew]

Yeah, but point was that there were so many different sources of accepted IDs that it basically didn't mean anything, as no-one was expected to know which ones were legit and which ones were not.

[jagged snow]

Yeah...
And that problem is still true

[twin dew]

As each school basically had their own IDs for students etc. that were valid and so on.

[jagged snow]

Each state has their own implementation of the requirements

And that's still the case as well

[twin dew]

So making a fake was trivial and getting one was cheap.

[dire igloo]

imo there should be some way for you to prove that you're you, simply to prevent others from acting like they're you

It depends what all that is used for

[jagged snow]

That's a very valid point, and along with the increased domestic safety is the biggest benefit to the citizen from centralized id

[night girder]

also, I don't need pasport when traveling in EU. Just my ID.

[dire igloo]

It blows my mind that the number one form of identifying a person in the US is through social security

[night girder]

altough some recommend still to have passport.

it has it perks.

[twin dew]

Which cannot even keep the social security numbers in use actually unique...

[dire igloo]

Yup, was kinda funny actually when I traveled to Ireland

[dire igloo]

And allows for reverse engineering a person's SSN based on information about their life

[jagged snow]

Its terrible, system was never designed to be used as id and it does that job so poorly

[night girder]

I understand US. I think I do.

[dire igloo]

There should be a better form then

[jagged snow]

There's a reason identity theft is so relatively common here

[dire igloo]

One that works even if I'm incapable of operating a vehicle

[night girder]

EU; let's close the door so nobody with bad intent can do something.
US; eh, why close the door. if they come for us, we go after them 1000x as hard. Let em come. They don't have the balls.

😄

[dire igloo]

reactive vs proactive protection

[night girder]

and US and privacy is another level at the moment.

Some still respect it hard there. Some... 🙁

[jagged snow]

Not saying this is my stance but there are lots of people that would argue we shouldn't have anything at all

[jagged snow]

The US's primary international policy is posturing

[night girder]

Yeah, I was thinking US can do more to be proactive. But that comes in the water of "privacy". Things like unified ID over US. Fingerprint mandatory. ID mandatory. No just buying sims nillywilly, but with ID etc.

and it's not as unified as we think 😄 Same as EU.

I only had to give me ID once to secret police. Police in disguise?

I fit a description they said. Gave them my ID. Did a little bit of chatting. They called in my ID and let me go.

The issue with id's is. It's all on the internet now. So just a time before ID's wont hold it anymore.

Hackers can probably now find databases of "real id's" they can use to do malicious things with.

And if you ID has your fingerprint on it, stored in a DB, and your phone, bank app, laptop etc use fingerprinting.

[twin dew]

The digital fingerprints on EU side aren't stored as full prints for exactly that reason AFAIK.
But as some reducted set with known algo, kind of same idea as one-way hashing.
But haven't bothered to look at the details.

[night girder]

Eh, we had big legal battle in my country over that.

Official website; stopvingerafdruk.be (stop the fingerprint)

So, they claim the fingerprint is stored in DB of the producer of our ID cards and deleted of 3 months. Official goverment statement.

So a company, making ID cards, promises to delete our fingerprints after 3 months. yeah right ...

Question; why does it need to be 3 months in a DB after production of the card?

Why can't they just scan my fingerprint, then put that data straight onto the chip when I visit for a new ID?

[dire igloo]

Fingerprint on ID is bullshit.
Justification was to prevent forgeries.
That's it, make IDs harder to forge.

[night girder]

I don't mind the fingerprint.

I mind that they ship it to 3rd party and put it in DB with a promise to delete it.

[night girder]

Everything that I said here, scrap that.

Don't store. Don't send it to external company. No!

Just take my fingerprint with a machine, get the data in whatever format they want, put it on the chip of my ID that is plugged into the card read. And done.

[dire igloo]

iirc Poland took it to EU court for being too invasive but failed

[night girder]

The only place my fingerprint should be stored, is on that chip.

[dire igloo]

Always depends on who owns the company

[night girder]

yeah, the website i posted is also from a lawyer who fought it in every court he could.

[night girder]

No! Doesn't depend.

I don't want my fingerprint to any company if it was up to me. trust worty or not. They all get hacked.

[dire igloo]

Sometimes the government is a 100% owner but it has to be an "independent" company cuz laws n shit

[night girder]

If the goverment is 100% owner, it worries me even more. Because I've seen their investments into IT security.

[dire igloo]

Except different owners have different incentives for security

[night girder]

Doesn't matter. Fingerprints don't belong in databases. Good intentions or not. Highly secure or not.

Isreal biometics got hacked once. They found large DB of valid biometrics to enter secure places, military etc. And that's military 😒

[dire igloo]

Government IT security is actually incredibly good if their job is to protect things.
They just suck horribly if their job is to do stuff with things that should be protected

Government hackers, government intelligence and government infosec specialists are some of the most knowledgeable people in their field

[night girder]

Maybe for your country 😛

[dire igloo]

But if you have some office clerk who's calculating retirement payments for former government employees, they know fuckall about data security and there's a gigantic rigid chain of command you gotta go through if you want to introduce good data protection

Also: governments are cheap fucks. Everything they do has to be justified - and while the top ranks spend tax money willy-nilly, the bottom ranks of the hierarchy have to double- and triple-check every expense

[dire igloo]

For a simple NFC skimmer to give access to my phone? No thanks

[dire igloo]

Agree with that tho

Simply because there's no reason for anyone to have my fingerprint

[night girder]

there is these little boxes you put the ID in and fixed 😉

[dire igloo]

We don't have that

It's NFC or nothing, no contact-only chip

[night girder]

?

[dire igloo]

Ah, those

[night girder]

you also have them in more strudy versions.

[dire igloo]

Would need to be transparent to not destroy convenience.
Alternatively: wallet with built in NFC blocker

[jagged snow]

Or something similar to yubikey with a capacitive touch plate you need to touch before it can be read

[dire igloo]

It's crazy how much a bank can and do find out about you.
But they hardly use that information because

1. you'd leave them immediately because you're afraid of their spying and
2. there are regulations in place for what kinds of advertisement banks are allowed to do

[night girder]

My IDE is not working with me today pff. Everytime I copy/paste a piece of code, I can reformat half my script because tabs keep jumping all over the place.

I miss Java sometimes. But so much extra code. Atleast the brackets help.

And I have yet to find a way to stop this behavior. Imagine a world, where I can copy/paste python code. And it just smartly keeps my script alive with tabs.

Can be worse.

[pure karma]

yea... i regret taking a programing class lol

js is breaking me

[mental oriole]

So they added the special character to force right2left...

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/for-real-is-this-really-gif-2820554417460659481

Test one two thee

Aww. Discord cleans it up 🙁

Fuck you Discord. Fuck you Discord?

Haha, for a second it reversed and then comsething kicks in and nuked the charatcer.

[mental oriole]

discord removes the r2l character?

[night girder]

yes

[mental oriole]

omg fuckin lame

it used to work a loooong time ago

[night girder]

Wait.

Let me post setence, and see if you see it reversed for a second.

Let me post setence, and see if you see it reversed for a second.

Did you see the last sentence reversed for a second?

Or just me side?

[mental oriole]

abc abcdef

ye it nukes it...

[night girder]

Test one two three.

Discord is like; no fun for you.

maybe we need Nitro to use this feature? 🤔

[mental oriole]

they removed it for "security" reasons

[night girder]

Ok, now I am thinking.

[mental oriole]

[night girder]

I guess you can bypass some stuff with the unicode + naughty sentences.

Like if you reverse a scam url, a script might not pick it up? So it gets posted on discord? 🤔

but then it's a reverse link.

How do you use RLO to social engineer someone?

[mental oriole]

[night girder]

www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2014/01/the-rtlo-method

@mental oriole If you are interested.

Haha. Vista rules.

Because it doesn't support RTLO it shows fake name.

meanwhile W10/W11 etc.

But still not sure how one would use it on discord.

maybe people were using it to try to inject stuff into bots or something. Or commands.

[mental oriole]

ye I know, but still

[night girder]

/tableflip + RTLO or something 🤣

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

you can use it with tableflip. bypassing the need for a message

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Wait. The hell. Did it just turn the emoticon upside down if I use multiple?

Maxeek trying to pick a fight.

I am not a fighter. Maybe a little bit with words 😛

that's hard to look at.

Cool.

Didn't know Ireland didn't have any electricity.

[foggy tangle]

Hey guys, can someone help me with my PC build that is around €1.5k? I'm currently at 1.8k which I am not happy.

[dire igloo]

When will you buy the PC?

[foggy tangle]

why?

[dire igloo]

Because markets change.
Stuff goes in and out of stock, prices go up and down, deals start and end, etc.

If you're not buying any time soon, don't bother making a list

[foggy tangle]

Define ‘any time soon’

[dire igloo]

This week

Which is already long enough of a time span to make any list obsolete towards the weekend

[foggy tangle]

Then not. I could change stuff depending on the stock

[dire igloo]

What's the point?

You'd keep changing the list over and over again

And at the end, you make that final list either way.
So save yourself the effort

[night girder]

You could just say you don't want to provide a list. 🤷‍♂️

maybe someone else wants to entertain it.

[dire igloo]

I don't wanna sink time and effort into a pointless endeavor

[night girder]

I get you.

[dire igloo]

And I want to help people get the best tech they can

Why planning a list early isn't recommended:
• Prices in your list can change over time.
• Prices for competing, alternative parts can go down, making your list more expensive or otherwise less ideal by comparison.
• Supply changes - your intended parts may run out of stock.
• New products may release that may be better than your initial choices, and could make your list less up-to-date.
• Confirmation bias - you may be more likely to stick to your first parts list, even if it's worse than another list made closer to the time you intend to purchase.

[night girder]

Just sounded a bit blunt 🤣

[dire igloo]

There's a whole ass copypasta in the build help servers

[dire igloo]

Yeah, that's 40% intentional and 60% autism.

[night girder]

I didn't buy my system in a week and still got decent help here 🙂

[dire igloo]

Did you have to rework the list?

[night girder]

No.

[foggy tangle]

Aware. Last time I touched pcpartpicker was way before 50s came out. So it’s to get a foundation / starting point

[dire igloo]

Well, when are you buying then?

[night girder]

Maybe Baldur wants to help you. But they probably not online anymore.

[jagged snow]

And what are you doing with it?

[dire igloo]

If you're just looking to hone your list making skills, you could also check the pcpp discord server, some incredibly knowledgeable advisors there

[dire igloo]

Guess what - there's a whole other copypasta for that stuff

[dire igloo]

To assist us in helping you with your list, please answer this copypasta.
The more info you provide the better

• Country and total budget, peripherals included (in your local currency)
• If you need peripherals, which ones? (monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset)
• Any specific games you will be running and at what resolution? (1080p, 1440p, 4k)
• Are you using the PC for work? What pieces of software? (Blender, Adobe Premiere, AutoCAD)
• Functional requirements (encoder for streaming, Bluetooth, USB-C)
• Do you have access to Ethernet? (cabled internet)
• Aesthetic preferences (color scheme, AIO, RGB)
• Do you own any parts already?

[night girder]

Haha 🤣 Sorry. We went from not helping to kinda helping.

[dire igloo]

It helps to ask the when first, stop people from spending a lot of thought on a futile endeavour

[night girder]

That copy/paste is pretty solid.

[dire igloo]

Ehhhhhh.
It's common for people to request help they don't need and need help they didn't request.

My goal is to give them the help they need

[dire igloo]

Any improvements?

[night girder]

No. That's why it's solid.

[dire igloo]

Ah, okay.
To me "solid" means "nothing bad, has potential"

Like a good foundation is solid

[night girder]

ah nah. was compliment to the makers.

[dire igloo]

Thanks

[foggy tangle]

1.5k austria no peripherals included
I do need monitor kbm
1080
gaming mainly and some light dtuff
bluetooth preffered
yea
AIO, RGB, white open case
not own but some that I need to have if possible

[dire igloo]

Didn't create all of it, but took a good foundation and perfected it

[dire igloo]

So you have a 1500€ budget for just the PC and an additional budget for peripherals?
Would be helpful to have the whole budget, saving 50€ on a monitor can get you a better CPU and vice versa.

Why 1080p and not QHD?
What games specifically?

What would you want Bluetooth for?

Does "open case" mean fishtank or bench table?

And pls send over your current WIP list so I can see more of what you're aiming for

Not much of a point in minmaxing cost since you won't be buying soon, but I can point you in the right direction for better list making

[foggy tangle]

Peripherals excluded for the 1500 budget.
Why not QHD? Because the games we will play isn’t graphic intense.
Fishtank

[foggy tangle]

We can’t send links here no?

[night girder]

remove https:// part from url and paste it in here

[dire igloo]

Whitelisted links are fine

https://at.pcpartpicker.com

[dire igloo]

Well, what games?

[bronze jasper]

yeah. always get the money ready then plan your pc. the market changes so much. also, i suggest waiting for sales and black friday sales are approaching which give a lot of good mainboard an cpu combo deals

[night girder]

We know satisfactory.

[foggy tangle]

Mainly FPS and some CoD.

[dire igloo]

And what's your peripherals budget?
As I said, you should be budgeting across the entire purchasing plan

[foggy tangle]

Not for this build, I have Satisfactory on my Laptop

[bronze jasper]

often you can find deals for parts that include games too

[foggy tangle]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KYphfd

[night girder]

black friday deals aren't everywhere and not always good depending on where you live.

[dire igloo]

Cyberpunk 2077 and Borderlands 4 are first person shooters and also very graphically intense.
I think you mean competitive shooters (like CS2, Valorant, PUBG)

[foggy tangle]

Yea and Minecraft with shaders, I can’t answer your peripherals question because the PC is not going to be for me.

[bronze jasper]

i've never had the legendary black friday deals where i am, Canada. But i do see good discounts on cpu and board combos around sales events

[dire igloo]

AMD, Intel and Nvidia constantly run deals á la "buy this new part, get that game free"

[night girder]

Just saying it's a bit relative. It's a US thing first and mostly.

[dire igloo]

Well, forward those questions.
Unless it's a gift then uhhhh

[bronze jasper]

the spirit of the advice still applies. sales events. wait for them to buy

[dire igloo]

I've seen it on Mindfactory and alternate. They're global promotions

[dire igloo]

Or don't. You may miss a good deal in the hopes of getting a better one

[foggy tangle]

I would just exclude peripherals because I don’t know what they’ve got, just wanted a build. And since I haven’t dealt with PCs for quite a while I can’t handle budgets.

[bronze jasper]

pc part picker is bad place to source parts imo. i always find one store thats near me that i know i can return stuff to if theres problems. its' nice to have a location to hold accountable

[foggy tangle]

If you’re ordering them online which you 90% have to around here I wouldn’t judge it. I use it for compatible parts then look at them at amazon etc

[bronze jasper]

at least make sure you get a free game

[dire igloo]

Well. That list is useless for you.
It's the US market which means US pricing and US availability.
You're not in the US, so none of it applies to you.

Now for the actual build feedback:

• good CPU for the usecase
• overpriced overkill AIO, there are less expensive options
• overkill mainboard, solid B650/B850 is plenty
• grossly overpriced RAM, equivalent kits go for under $100
• overpriced overkill SSD, not really that good for high-end
• GPU out of stock, I'd aim for 9070xt
• meh case, why that one over all the other fishtanks?
• overpriced PSU, tends to be on the louder end

[dire igloo]

I've rarely had a local store offer a better deal than an online shop.
The only "issue" of pcpp in that regard is that it doesn't cover as many shops for Germany as I'd like.
I usually do a rough draft on PCPP and then take it to Geizhals for the refinement

[foggy tangle]

Strange, probably because I planned the build on my computer in my region but since I logged on my phone to give you the linked it might have changed.
At the end which is RAM, PSU, Mainboard I suppose I had to get it done fast knowing people could help

[dire igloo]

Rule of thumb:
Sales events often bring some really great deals with them, but rarely for things you're actually looking to get.

[dire igloo]

Easy fix, just add at. to the link
https://at.pcpartpicker.com/list/KYphfd

[foggy tangle]

Didn’t pay attention

[dire igloo]

Which uhh didn't really change the criticism

Except gpu which is now in stock for a HEFTY price increase

You should be using Geizhals for the final list anyway

[dire igloo]

I paid less than 500€ for my 7800xt two years ago

[foggy tangle]

I have no clue what RAM & PSU to use, I just picked the second one

[dire igloo]

Default PCPP sorting is by popularity.
And since it's mainly used by people in the US, that's the primary influence for the trends.

For SSD, MB, RAM and PSU: cheapest unit that meets the required criteria and isn't shit

[foggy tangle]

What did the SSD do?

[bronze jasper]

holy moly do not cheap out on the MB. thats where you get problems that are super difficult to diagnose

cheap on the CPU before the mobo because you can upgrade that later a lot easier

[foggy tangle]

What update did I miss? Last time I checked as long as the mobo
doesn’t burn it won’t affect FPS majorly.

[bronze jasper]

cheap mobos use out of spec corner cutting to save money. there are fps differences between mobos a lot of the time thats why benchmark pros use the same motherboard across all tests instead of just doing multiple systems to get more tests out faster

[dire igloo]

Load times don't really care how fast your drive is as long as it's an SSD.
And while you should avoid shitty SSDs, it's not worth paying significant extra for high end ones

[dire igloo]

Hence the "not shit" part of my message

You don't notice a difference between a good $150 B650 board and a $350 X870E board

[dire igloo]

Shit mainboard makes PC more likely to crash and can power throttle your CPU

[foggy tangle]

i’ll try to update the list

[dire igloo]

With a 7800x3d, that's a tough goal to achieve tho

[foggy tangle]

I am still shocked, when I was around more often the high end builds were 7800X3D + 4070 for around 2k or less

[bronze jasper]

ah yes. the magical "cheap but not shit" products

[dire igloo]

https://at.pcpartpicker.com/list/XJGjTM

[dire igloo]

Set loose filters for minimum requirements.
Sort by price ascending.
Skip shit, pick cheapest.
Check a bit further for better deals.
Done.

[dire igloo]

I meant that as "good luck power-throttling a 7800x3d"
It's 100W maximum worst case scenario

[jagged snow]

Yeah, mine is temp-limited often

At around 80w in typical gaming loads

[pure karma]

power throttling? whats that

my lowest power draw cpu i own draws 170W in PL1 if you dont count mobile cpu's

[pure karma]

i dont think he would have to since Gpu's have esentially reached the limit

if the power draw of computer hardware keeps going up something is gonna give eventually

its funny because my GPU is fairly efficient but the VRAM is half the power draw alone which is absolutely insane

so if the vram usage is high you can say goodbye

25W gaming is not dang bad on a gpu that averages 280W+ under load

but thats with 2GB of vram usage

[languid gulch]

i'm biased towards good quality

lil bit

[bronze jasper]

fun fact. ceo of nvidia and amd are cousins

i doubt they feud. they collude on prices and strategies over the holiday dinners

its like biggie and pac. they're just putting on this rivalry show to sell product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bkMtWL-5vM its like ma bell , they got that ill communication

i'll shut up for just a billion, pay me instead

alls fair in the shutting up game

lol when they do the acapella barber shop version of sabotage

[foggy tangle]

update, he wanted to to be 1.4k ish becayse of the peripherals paying extra

meaning there’s €300 to save

[dire igloo]

That's not how this works tho

If he allocated 100€ to peripherals, I can't give him anything proper.
If he allocated 700€, I'll use some of that money for the PC

There's very good reason why the questionnaire asked for the total budget including peripherals

[dire igloo]

Oh btw, alternative RAM
www.amazon.de/dp/B0CSSSSMVW

[foggy tangle]

I’ll check it out I got work to do rn

[verbal raft]

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/silent-hill-f-performance-benchmark/5.html

Not bad actually

[verbal raft]

the begining is so crazy lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbI4BAaSZb8

[verbal raft]

[foggy tangle]

not that I know what he has or what he needs

[twin dew]

But you can ask and find out.

[dire igloo]

Exactly that

It can make a difference of hundreds of Euros

I've had someone I think it was in the PCPP server who had a budget allocation of $1000 PC and $500 monitor for graphically intense AAA gaming (other peripherals were owned).
Gave him a $300 Mini LED monitor and a $1200 PC

[pure karma]

Only thing i regret about my setup is going with VA panels

the blur and smear is not worth the money savings honestly

[night girder]

I regret building a new system sometimes 🤣 Gave me pleasure. But also a lot of headache. And burning money.

[soft bloom]

it's defintely a worthwhile jump from TN.
saving the margin between tn and va should be illegal

[dire igloo]

except for when you're trying to push the panel technology to its absolute limits for motion handling

then TN is the superior technology to VA and much more cost effective to push to extremes than IPS

but since OLED is a thing, high performance TN is basically obsolete

[tough owl]

except for budget no?

[twin dew]

TN, IPS and VA are currently about same price at the low end.

[tough owl]

with IPS being the preffered choice?

[twin dew]

For gaming yes.
For media viewing VA can be better.
For image editing etc. depends if you care more about constrast ratio or color accuracy.

[soft bloom]

if you mean absolute low end then still better take something except for TN

[twin dew]

And now all monitor panel makers are trying to jump into OLED use, because of the infinite contrast, even when OLEDs have significant downsides...

Abandoning everything else as OLED prices go down.

Do Not Want!

[tough owl]

I want a sub $200 ultra wide monitor

Dual displays won't fit at my desk

[pure karma]

im hit or miss

after my arc build working perfectly fine i think my motherboard in my main pc is flakey

i dont think i did anything wrong i think i just got unlucky

and i think the fact that the onboard ethernet dosent work at all and the back io randomly stops working screams something went kaput

[soft bloom]

how about some vertical space real estate?
larger diagonals doesn't need to be ultra wide

[tough owl]

need 2 documents side by side

vertical is goofy 🤢

[night girder]

Mhm. I think I have one of the following:

• broken CPU.
• broken motherboard.
• broken PSU.
• broken GPU.
• broken RAM.
• broken electricity in my attic.
• broken will.
• broken cables.

One, more or combination of above.

[soft bloom]

better then having modern websites occupy less then 10% of your screen width

did you see Minority report?

[pure karma]

so real

memtest is cool but it takes way too long to run and has nerver helped me solve my problems soooo....

[bronze jasper]

it's telling you softly that it's a hardware problem and your dimms need replacing, mr pc builder

blocking bad sectors on faulty dimms? doesn't really work that way. i'm not sure i would call that a bug.

[twin dew]

If specific to just specific addresses, both Linux and Windows do support making the system not use those.

Very niche feature

[bronze jasper]

TIL. i'd sooner just replace it with cheap dimms. i'd imagine that blocking addresses causes performance problems in order to trade stability

[night girder]

🤣

[cosmic dove]

anyone got a good gpu for like 300-600 euros?

[jagged snow]

Low end of that budget, b580
Middle, 9060xt

HIgher end, 9070 or 9070xt

Also a 5070 if you can find it at a competative price

What country specifically?

[thin trout]

9070xt are like 30% over MSRP in US, so they are completely noncompetitive with nvidia - particularly 5070ti 16GB

[jagged snow]

They said euros, so I assumed we weren't dealing with us market

[thin trout]

fair 😄

[jagged snow]

Also from when I bought my gpu everything I saw was 5070ti being priced even worse

Often at 8-900 usd

Whereas 9070xt was at 650-750

[thin trout]

when i checked a couple days ago, 9070xt was $800 (133% MSRP) while 5070ti was $750 (100% MSRP). So it's a complete joke at that PP.

different in germany though atm, 9070xt is considerably cheaper. Not enough IMO, but actually a conversation

[jagged snow]

Wow, what store were you looking at?

[thin trout]

pcpartpicker US, so basically all of them

[jagged snow]

I just checked us newegg, the 9070xt I'd buy is usd 720 if I was willing to pay that much
5070ti 16gb is at like 800

Which seems like a reasonable price disparity

Because the 5070ti does outclass the 9070xt in a few cases

And is quite a bit more effecient iirc

[thin trout]

5070ti is considerably faster and more efficient, and feature set is worth +20% price alone

[jagged snow]

idk if I'd say considerably...

And what featureset?

renc is pretty solid these days

[thin trout]

reflex is the most notable one, it's in hundreds of games but the radeon equivelant is in about 5

[jagged snow]

Ehh
That's interesting

[thin trout]

but dlss4 is considerably stronger than any version of FSR, in many more games, and DLSS framegen blows everything else away. Closest to it is lossless framegen.

[jagged snow]

Amd's anti-lag solution is generally a bit better than reflex when implemented directly, and the driver-level one mostly keeps parity
So I wouldn't consider that a benefit

[twin dew]

And basically doesn't matter with playble FPS in most of them.

[thin trout]

Reflex is really important. Without it, you have to make sure that your GPU never goes over 90% load or you get a massive increase in latency.

[thin trout]

First thing: It's not, not at all. And driver antilags are terrible by comparison

[jagged snow]

That's really not a valid generalization

[thin trout]

55>75 on the best graphical showcase game, that's +36% fps while also having better image quality due to DLSS4 outpacing FSR. It's similar on all of the top 5.

[dire igloo]

Cuda

[twin dew]

And the point was that in most of those games, the input latency is still low enough to not matter.

[jagged snow]

Cuda is big but getting smaller

[thin trout]

It objectively does matter though. I find it a really weird argument that you don't care that some aspect of the performance is worse, therefore it's worth buying the inferior product. If it doesn't significantly hit the value for you personally then fine, but for the average gamer it does. For the people who care a lot about performance, they care a lot about reflex. Most of us would pay +$100 for reflex alone.

[jagged snow]

I only have one application that I use that doesn't natively support rocm

[dire igloo]

idk what AMD did with rocm but zluda had it beat considerably

[dire igloo]

And for the average gamer, $80 can be used on quite a bunch of other great things

[thin trout]

5070ti with reflex is better than 5080 without it

[dire igloo]

It's the question of what you notice more: worse latency or missing $80

[thin trout]

but anyway i have to run

[twin dew]

Point is that with input lag, for most part it just needs to be low enough, and it won't matter.
With cutoff at around 100ms for most people.

[thin trout]

100ms latency is insanity tier. A lot of people complain about framegen increasing latency from 25 to 35ms. We have scientific studies showing preference for latency improvement all of the way down to the 1ms magnitude.

[dire igloo]

9070xt on Geizhals starts at 623€

5070ti at 775€

[twin dew]

Yes, complain, but do they actually notice if they don't have numerical indicators.

[thin trout]

Yes, and they perform worse too.

[pure karma]

as someone with multiple monitors and therefore locked into vsync at all times latency is a fuck all concern since i have no say over it

[dire igloo]

You may not notice that your tech is slower, but you'll definitely notice if your gameplay is off

And if not that, you'll notice the decrease in MMR

[verbal raft]

With newer drivers HUB showed that the 9070 XT was actually ahead in raster performance

[jagged snow]

That matches all the benchmarks I've seen

5070ti wins by a lot in a few cases but 9070xt wins by a little in most

[verbal raft]

You know Path tracing is the exception not the norm right ?

PT generally just runs like garbage on non ADA+ GPU's
especially alchemist, RDNA 2/3

RDNA 4 is like ampere with PT AFAIK

[jagged snow]

And also path tracing is just bs for almost all real-time applications

[verbal raft]

could just be that HUB messed up something in their OG reveiw, so the 9070 XT performed worse than it shouldve (just sayin' it might not all be driver)

[verbal raft]

ive also heard that PT on AMD doesnt take full advantage of AMD's RT cores, so theres that, and that Nvidia made it unecesarrily heavy to prop up ADA, that last ones 100% tinfoil hat, but point is using PT for general performance comparisons is odd to me

[twin dew]

Making it unnecessarely heavy would be inline with previous Nvidia behavior with similar stuff before.

[verbal raft]

tessaletion

[twin dew]

Also several other GameWorks things like hair/fur etc.

[verbal raft]

AL 2 seems very comparable to standard reflex AFAIK (+ boost is a little bigger gap but i dont think you'd be able to tell without a latency meter)
regular AL isnt very hellpfull though, AFAIK its only barely better than nothing at all
AL2's biggest problem is game support, since for some ungodly reason AMD doesnt force AL2 with FSR FG (like how NVIDIA forces reflex with DL-FG, and DL-FG is the only reason why so many games have reflex btw)

[thin trout]

yes but reflex before DLSS3 was already in more games than AL2 is in today. They are still paying for releasing 5 years later and a lot of games from that 5yr period will never go back and add AL2 (like Satisfactory has no plans for it, so Nvidia will have a large advantage in the game for the indeterminate future). Going forward, games ship with Reflex much more often than with AL2 today so the gap is widening, not closing.

[verbal raft]

FG lacking motion vectors will never look anywhere near as good as FG with MV
its just a fact, AFMF 2.1 looks like AI generated minecraft for me for example while with FSR FG looked 10 times better, sure LSFG is probably better but not that much better, and now you can use XeFG on AMD as well, which doesnt have the same problem as FSR FG with MV-less objects

[verbal raft]

and it will continue to do so as long as AMD doesnt force AL 2 with FSR FG...

[verbal raft]

though XeFG is pretty funny
XeFG handles hud interpolation worse than AFMF lol

[verbal raft]

100$ ??
i could buy a better CPU and more RAM for that, both of which would be 2x more helpfull thn having less latency

given i only get annoyed by latency once im below 30fps

[verbal raft]

i also think theres a mod for cyberprank that removes unnecessary RT elements to make AMD RT run better

[verbal raft]

why isnt nexus whitelisted, smh
nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/21176

[verbal raft]

lemme hop into cyberprank
i wanna see for myself

PT still crashes after a while BTW
just sayin'

i wonder when AMD will finnally fix this
though i imagine its not exactly on their list of priorities

i just realized i can measure latency with optisclaer
damn

RTP/PT native 3rd PT FSR P no mod

oh youve got to be f-ing with my soul😤

hopin' this works

[verbal raft]

also nevermind that
since it stayed the same between 20 and 50fps..

[verbal raft]

RTP/PT native 3rd PT W FSR P

[cosmic dove]

Denmark

[verbal raft]

so PT native is the same
but RT phsyco gained 13% and PT with FSR P gained 17%

the denoiser is having a good time lol
FSR 4/FSR 3.1/XeSS P

😭

[languid gulch]

ngl looks fine to me

some games i play are so old that foliage rotates with your camera and can give you motion sickness if you stare at it too long

and some trees irl will kinda do that in the breeze if you stare at them

[pure karma]

do you not see the horrendous sparkle in the reflections?

[languid gulch]

oh in the rain on the ground yea

but

i've also seen a fair amount of concrete with some largeish quartz flakes that do that

[pure karma]

i supose i cant confirm or deny that since iv nerver even seen reflective concrete in the first place

[languid gulch]

idk if that means it's good quality or bad quality, but i've seen it 🤣 kinda looks like a granite countertop

[pure karma]

good environment more than anything id say

concrete here just crumbles into dust from the cold

its very brittle

[languid gulch]

shiny in the sun at the right angle, or really bright street lighting at night

[pure karma]

cant really use it for anything yet alone keep it looking good

[languid gulch]

yea here concrete is decent, asphalt/tarmac isn't 🤣

[languid gulch]

uhhhh

max

wtf is this

czechia needs to explain itself

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWheels/comments/1np620f/the_velorex_the_czech_designed_produced_three/

how did it not catch fire

lol true

i'll watch old movies and think like that too

all the polyester and hairspray

and then they'll light up a cigarette

"Manufactured by a state monopoly, a Trabant took about ten years to acquire.[10] East German buyers were placed on a waiting list of up to thirteen years."

for everyone being a worker, they sure couldn't make much 🤣

meanwhile in the US at the time, carmakers were trying to figure out how to make 3 ton cars out of inch thick steel 🤣

r/WeirdWheels today 😛

[safe trench]

phsyx was honestly the only cool random little gimmick things nvidia has made

lets not forget about project ara

goog killed it because modular = bad

earth

[languid gulch]

making money on the internet

[safe trench]

so far

[languid gulch]

sucks that Jay is now finally getting to do his car stuff, because we probably could have had a Top Gear competitor all these years

[safe trench]

or use li-

[safe trench]

i need this cat

pet cat > life

[foggy tangle]

do you have any recommendations on mb then? Or any other GPUs if theres a better NVIDIA option, you can also list a good (aesthetic & perf) SSD 😉

[safe trench]

just get a p310 2tb crucial on sale

they go for 100 for when i got them

great deal

[dire igloo]

1. Why does SSD aesthetic matter? It's gonna be covered.
2. Check the list I made you earlier

[dire igloo]

In Austria too?

Also, QLC NAND.
Good QLC, but still QLC.

Most MSI boards I've put in builds had only 2 m.2 slots compared to the default 3 on ASRock

Why Samsung explicitly?
Unless there's some good sale on them, you'll easily find an equivalent if not better drive for less

[safe trench]

0 clue

this cat looks so cute when its video is slowed down and it touches the camera

[foggy tangle]

SSD clearly doesn’t matter.
What about it?

[safe trench]

whar

im sorry and i dont know about you however im not trying to make my ssd look like the centerpiece of an entire pc

im just gonna have the stock heatsink on it anyways

[dire igloo]

You said "can you also list a good (aesthetic & perf) SSD"

And the list I sent had a couple mainboard choices

[safe trench]

luna has been proven to boost heatsink performance by 20%

[foggy tangle]

The list you sent?

I don’t recall sorry

[dire igloo]

https://at.pcpartpicker.com/list/XJGjTM

#off-topic-tech message

Rough draft, should ideally be sent through geizhals.at before purchase.
And I do still have to know about the peripherals

[tribal kraken]

Pulled trigger for new 3D scanner. 3DMakerpro Toucan, stand alone blue laser scanner. Meaning wireless laptop free scanning. Been using their Lynx for a year now which is NIR scanner for larger objects.

[tribal kraken]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH5QP6TTG2Y

[verbal raft]

<@&387163995947270144>

[foggy tangle]

do you prefer AMD over Nvidia? I’ve been using NVIDIA all along for DLSS etc.

[dire igloo]

Personally, I use AMD, but regret not picking Nvidia.
I've recommended both brands to people.

The driving factor: usecase.
If you're doing a lot of Blender renders and AI training, don't go AMD.
If you're just looking for good fps in games, don't bother overpaying for Nvidia.

DLSS exists, yes. But FSR is also good (tho not as good)

[dire igloo]

I bought my 7800xt in 2023 and could've spent 50€ more to get a 4070 Super (I think, could've also been non-Super).
Slightly worse performance, better RT and versatility.

Shortly after, I started to do voluntary broadcast work for an esports organization - and wished I had spent the 50€ on Nvenc.

[foggy tangle]

I also recommended NVIDIA just for work – non comp gamds

[dire igloo]

Price also influences that

Paying 80€ to go from 9070xt to 5070ti can be hella worth it.
Paying 150€ not really

[dire igloo]

Anyways tho, there's no point in further minmaxing this list without the peripherals in info and a close by purchase date

Btw, you could save a lot if whiteout wasn't a requirement

[languid gulch]

if i wasn't handed my current pc with nvidia, i'd still be on my 6800XT

and still be perfectly happy with it

with a single exception that's really not even all that important, it could handle all my games maxxed out easily

[dire igloo]

I think I'd be struggling more with my broadcasting if I was on rdna2

[verbal raft]

i thought VCE H264 only really improved on RDNA 4

[night girder]

Latest AMD driver might have introduced some graphical glitches.

FYI.

Since installation, after turning off my screen for a long time, and then turning it back on, the bottom half my screen glitches out. So I cannot see taskbar.
Weird thing is; when I want to take a screenshot of it. Glitch behavior is gone (not visible on screenshot). If I change refreshrate it's gone. But if I then put original refresh rate back, it's here again.
Switching monitor and it dissapears. Switching back and it appears again. Restarting fixes it too.

It's possible it's a bad cable, or my monitor dying. But I find it strange it started to happen after I updated a few days ago. Exactly from that point on. Every night.

[dire igloo]

Yup. But RDNA3 still improved a good bit on rdna2

[verbal raft]

well it atleast has AV1..
which would be really good if it was actually used anywhere

[soft bloom]

you can use av1 when you encode video 🙂

[pure karma]

IF the software your using checks for support or you have no igpu

Since stuff like obs offloads without checking if the igpu also supports it

[thin trout]

I use av1 every day on discord, youtube and twitch

what doesn't support it?

[twin dew]

Probably means embedding, but that is probably about MP4 (supported) vs. MKV (not supported), not about what is inside the container.

[dire igloo]

isn't twitch support for av1 only on specific end devices?

[thin trout]

some devices can't handle av1 decoding, but most can nowadays

[verbal raft]

twitch doesnt AFAIK
youtube encodes like every 1000th video with it, even then they use it to cut back on bitrate, so a videos VP9 version often looks that same if not better, on discord AV1 clips play like totall ass if you dont have HW AV1 decode (thanks to discords laughable SW AV1 decode)

[thin trout]

I still use mkv because it's safe in case of power loss / crashing etc, but just name the file .mp4 and discord embeds it

[thin trout]

I've checked that my av1 videos work fine on a phone

they playback fine at smooth 120fps

[twin dew]

Depends if the CPU used has AV1 HW decode support or not.
Took long time for phone SOCs to get that.

[verbal raft]

sure
some phones do have HW decoding for AV1
but those that dont get murdered by discords SW decoding

[thin trout]

i haven't tested with newer "good" phones, but not 15yr old phones either. Desktop has had 100% success rate over a few dozen people watching my vids

[twin dew]

Well, the SOCs got it quite quick, but those SOCs making it to actually sold phones took time.

[verbal raft]

watching a clip uploaded to discord with AV1 on my laptop

playing a show i encoded in AV1

[thin trout]

yeah, software decoding on an older ultra-low-power cpu is not good

[verbal raft]

but see how much better the windows media player handles it ?

its night and day

[thin trout]

ye

i actually have hardware acceleration forced off on discord because of some bug

Just tested playback of 1080p60 av1 and discord is using 2.5% CPU while it's doing that

i do get this also, so maybe that's somehow working anyway or i'm wrong about the discord setting

[twin dew]

That Discord HW acceleration is about complete window acceleration, not video decode acceleration.

[verbal raft]

heres the clip btw
(5.5Mbps IIRC)

[verbal raft]

hmm
aeryn just sent me a clip with AV1 encode
much more stable laod this time
but still much higher than VLC

[thin trout]

i guess that is an igpu which is both very weak and does not support av1 hardware decode

[twin dew]

No, but PC CPUs are powerful enough to do it on the CPU for most part, and the SW decoders are available.
But in Android space etc, no-one has really bothered to include SW AV1 decoder as the battery life hit would be gigantic.

[verbal raft]

its a VEGA 6

[verbal raft]

hey, its twice as good as what i had before
Vega 3

That poor thing was choking to death from 2.5Mbps encoding on H264 🤣

*720P

30fps

[thin trout]

i was there, 3000 years ago when we used 2 cpu cores with affinity to encode 960x540 at 600kbps

with speex audio

which was hilariously bad because opus didn't exist and everything else was lisenced 😄

[verbal raft]

X264 ?

everything but x264

[thin trout]

ye x264 😄

[verbal raft]

fastest preset

[thin trout]

not more than veryfast

[verbal raft]

so how fast was very fast ?

[thin trout]

workable on 2 nehalem cores 😄

[verbal raft]

im watching a show encoded in x264 and it somehow looks worse than a show i re-encoded in VCE AV1
while having double the file size

[thin trout]

I can't find any video of speex or any easy to use encoder, it went the way of the dodo so quickly because it's that bad

it was mediocre for only voice, but if you played game music or you got into a battle it turned into the dialup sounds

https://youtu.be/gsNaR6FRuO0?t=11

[verbal raft]

i just cant stand the macro blocking of 264

[thin trout]

x264 was the best encoder for the best format at the time

give it 15 years and people will be talking about how shit av1 was 😄

I actually expected 264 to get improved/replaced much faster than it did though

and i expected audio to still be kinda bad for a while, but opus is insanely good and free

[verbal raft]

opus + AV1 FTW 😎

[verbal raft]

AV3 😎

[thin trout]

not bad for 3% of lossless filesize

not good either, but dial it up to 6% and it's passable

i still keep stuff lossless because i really don't care about 400MB for 1 hour of audio and it's better to edit lossless

but it's v impressive

32kbit speex was so bad that you couldn't even make out intelligible words in music. MUCH worse than mp3.

And here's a comparison between 48kbit mp3 and 48kbit opus from the same lossless source. Night and day

[verbal raft]

i have no clue where mp3 ends and opus starts lol

[thin trout]

you have a medical problem or you're listening on a toaster from 1972

@twin dew can you vouch? 😄

[twin dew]

Not going to even try to listen today.

[verbal raft]

okay on second listening yeah i can tell

i just thought that whenever it switches from mp3 to opus that it was actually just the music ramping up

[thin trout]

it sounds kinda that way sometimes (it switches every few secs) but the volume is the same, it's just bad

[verbal raft]

BTW, AAC = MP3 right ?

[twin dew]

No.

AAC and MP3 are both audio codecs, but not related.

[verbal raft]

okay

[thin trout]

AAC is better than mp3 but worse than opus

[twin dew]

But as it was taken on by Apple to be their go-to codec, it got lot of spread.
While Opus is niche.

[thin trout]

I don't think so, it was niche when it first came out but it's been expanding rapidly for a long time now

AAC predates opus and got adoption as a lisence-free codec, but Opus is available now, clearly superior, and free to use. It's also fairly trivial to set up or transplant, so it is basically free audio quality / reduced file sizes.

basically everything on streaming services, livestreaming etc is using opus, as well as platforms like Discord and Zoom.

[verbal raft]

so mp3 is audios version of AVC AAC is HEVC and opus is AV1
is that 'analogy' correct ?

[thin trout]

kinda. Mp3 is like divx video that you have to pay a subscription per-user to be able to encode into or serve it

AAC is like x264, and opus like av1 😛

[steep smelt]

Getting my new computer built with a Ryzen 7 9800 CPU, NVIDIA RTX 5080 GPU, 64GB of RAM and 10 TB of storage!

[foggy tangle]

True, is there a way to cheapen it out abit more for another case maybe? Probably he’ll go with the h9 flow

[verbal raft]

good
how much was it ? : )

[steep smelt]

The tower, build cost and warranty all costed $4,200

[soft bloom]

the your bluetooth earbuds/headphones lost signal and switched to low bandwidth protocl experience

[steep smelt]

I'm hoping the Ryzen 7 9800 is a strong CPU.

[verbal raft]

its the strongest

especially for satisfactory

[dire igloo]

Without info on purchase date and peripherals requirements, no point in doing so.
If you save 100€ on the monitor, that's plenty for a new case and better looking parts

A more general suggestion: don't go whiteout, white tax is big

[dire igloo]

CAD? KWD? AUD? ZWD?

(pls don't say KWD)

Prebuild I presume

[twin dew]

Ryzen 9800 doesn't currently exist AFAIK.
But I would expect it is actually 9800X3D.

[dire igloo]

nvm, bio says voted for Trump, most likely USD then

[dire igloo]

or 9700

But at 4k USD, it better be 9800x3d

[steep smelt]

Honestly...I forgot about that detail, but it isn't a prebuilt. Having it built in Micro Center.

[dire igloo]

That does not make it better in the slightest

How do you spend 4.2k on a custom build?

[foggy tangle]

I could acc get the thermalright frozen notte 360

looks great

[dire igloo]

One of many Thermalright AIOs

[thin trout]

It's not that hard, depends what you include in the figure though (e.g. monitor etc)

but 5080 is not great on that price

[dire igloo]

I prefer those with the sfdb v2 bearing tho

Check out frozen Warframe hehe

[dire igloo]

I think a lot of it went into the 10tb of storage

And not in a good way

4tb sn7100: $210
good 2tb: $110 (estimated)
Means $530 for 10tb of nvme

[steep smelt]

Yeah, it was specifically a Ryzen 7 9800 X3D.

[dire igloo]

The X3D is part of the model name

in general, it's important to mention it
In this case, there is only one 9800 numbered CPU by AMD

But if you look at 7600, things change

and then there's the 5600 mess

[verbal raft]

a friendly reminder to anyone looking for a 5600:
||DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY ANY OTHER VERSION THAN THE 5600 non X/X3D and X||

[dire igloo]

X3D

[verbal raft]

or 5800/7900/7950/9900/9950

[dire igloo]

G can be fine too depending on usecase and alternatives

[dire igloo]

5600 extra bad cuz G, GT, T and whatnot

[verbal raft]

no, just spend a tad more on a low end dGPU and have a much better CPU instead

go thank me when you upgrade your GPU

[dire igloo]

Time for an a310 based office/surfing PC

tbh, just go used then

[verbal raft]

cant it at least be an A380 ?

[dire igloo]

hm, the board computer is probably powerful enough.
Kinda needs a lot of space tho

[twin dew]

My secondary desktop PC is Ryzen 4650G without separate GPU.

[dire igloo]

could also consider i3

[verbal raft]

okay, sorry
i just couldnt resist

i had to
there was no other way

[dire igloo]

🛬🏙️

[verbal raft]

[twin dew]

US to middle east, Europe to middle east, or India to middle east Emirates A380?

Or Hajj-flights Emirates A380?

[verbal raft]

IDK
its the one wikipedia uses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380

[twin dew]

Huge interior differences based on which routes the plane is used.
And you really don't want to fly even on those India routes, and Hajj-ones are even worse...

[foggy tangle]

update: he said he’ll probably get the whole build end july

[dire igloo]

BRUUUUUUUUH

[foggy tangle]

yeaahh

[dire igloo]

Absolutely zero reason to plan it now

We'll have another CES and Computex until then

[foggy tangle]

aware I tjought he will buy it like next to this month lmfao

[verbal raft]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/995299946028871735/1420351498541596724/2025-09-24_12-07-16.mp4?ex=68d6666a&is=68d514ea&hm=7c34b3bda5e91c92b7498a3804a97cb79cdb58149bf5663c4b47577a2f55e5b9&

sorry
couldnt resist

[foggy tangle]

See you next year, probably will text you lmfao for what ever reason

[steep smelt]

I'm guessing you were assuming I was talking about a Rynex 7 9800X3D, right?

[verbal raft]

yes.

9950 X3D has the same performance in gaming
so it is the best

[night girder]

So you were right 😄

[dire igloo]

Rynex KEKW

btw, do you have a PCPP list of the parts in your PC?
I'm interested to see what choices were made for a high-end system

New AMD wrist watch

[steep smelt]

Awesome. No regrets then.

[tribal kraken]

Looks like you can get 5090 prebuilt below 4k€ today

But has "only" 32GB ram and 2TB crap storage thou (Solidigm P41+)

[tribal kraken]

If you spend time herding the games to correct cores. After a while I gave up 😄

[sharp matrix]

It is pretty funny but also sad because as much as it would be ideal for the us to a world class foundry, when/if can that actually happen?

[dire igloo]

can you send me a list of your parts pls? I wanna know what you went with
https://pcpartpicker.com/list

[verbal raft]

jeez
AFMF 2.1 30 to 60 looks sooo bad

i dont get why people think DLTB looks good
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/995299946028871735/1420837482366500914/Dying_Light_The_Beast_2025.09.25-21.19.mp4?ex=68d6d985&is=68d58805&hm=e5cf5b340036dfe3bc7fec5356f8de117a879e7da0bfdd82139902265097e8f2&
this looks like crap

[unreal cave]

Anybody got a cpu reccomendation for RTX 4070

Wanna upgrade soon

[glossy glacier]

what do you currently have?

[jagged snow]

And what mobo/platform are you on? Do you want a full platform upgrade or just a replacement on your current one?

[dire igloo]

And why do you wanna upgrade your CPU?
What do you do that you want/need more CPU performance for?

[dire igloo]

I upgraded CPU when GPU died.
Then I upgraded CPU cuz cool new shit.
Then I upgraded CPU cuz RAM crashed.

i5-4590 → E3-1230v3 → R7 1700X → R7 3800xt

I do not remember any of that

It will become obsolete on February 24th 2026

You're not supporting him tho.
You bought that product ages ago, you're not buying any more of their products rn

[night girder]

How did your GPU die?

replace fan?

[dire igloo]

idk actually

Just stayed black one day

Still sold it for like 70-80€ tho
(GTX 780 HOF, pre-2018)

[night girder]

sold it online? or local shop somewhere?

I don't sell old hardware. I assume little have interest in old or broken stuff. That's why I am surprised he sold it for 70-80 euro.

You can probably, if lucky, get some working parts out of it for repairs maybe.

[jagged snow]

I went i5 4460 to r5 5600x to r7 7800x3d

[pure karma]

me neither

at least not individually

im probably just gonna stockpile whatever dead tech i have and get rid of it as a full system

[tough owl]

I got a 3950x and I'm hanging on as long as possible

[jagged snow]

Descent choice

And solid chip still

[jagged snow]

I'm assuming I'll stick with this for a very long time
Its an absurdly capable system

[jagged snow]

And man, getting a qdoled for gaming was such a good choice

[dire igloo]

Kleinanzeigen

[tough owl]

I just needed threads for vms for schooling

[jagged snow]

Ahhh

Year that makes sense

[jagged snow]

Even 7800x3d cannot best the compile

I also think I may need to remount my cpu cooler

[safe trench]

yeah not even a 7800x3d can best the compile 😔

such a shame it cannot best it

[soft bloom]

I think I forgot to reply to the conversation about alien invasions as culture

[languid gulch]

i have a dumb "why is this a thing" question

sometimes when i have windows explorer open, i'll want to have another explorer window open, and the quick way to do that is to scroll click on the explorer icon. sometimes it'll open a fresh explorer window, other times it'll just bring the 1st one forward instead of making a new one like i want

[dire igloo]

"Hello, tech support? I'm using windows."
"Hello, yes. How can I help you?"
"Well, my machine is doing strange unexplainable things."
"You already said that, please go into more detail."

[languid gulch]

🤣

[soft bloom]

oh only if only there was a way to ask collective mind of the internet and get at least some idea of where to look for...

[tribal kraken]

My windows 11 does only 1 strange thing, and its only on this office work PC. Two of my softwares do it, Acrobar reader and SolidWorks will explode all its open tabs as new windows in the task bar filling it up. Usually happens when returning to PC an uncloking it with PIN code. And you cannot access the "new" windows from the task bar, only clicking the main window allows switching to that app.

Loading? Windows start up time?

This PC is always on, only reboot for like driver/software updates. However nowadays I do shut down my home PC, but the boot is fast to my liking, if AMD does not decide to train RAM

[soft bloom]

ok so TTP2 raised valid question...
"why sci-fi became so reactional in portrait science as source of great evil?" (rephrasing to shorten)
and I wonder, if certain category of organisations, people,
that also was responsible for anti-intellectualism,
took great interest in creating stories that would nail down that idea
after all, story of Prometheus and Pandora's box originate from the same source

just ask yourself: how many stories about a new powerful tool, technology, knowledge, weapon was depicted not as absolute danger, but at least as something with dual (both good and bad) potential?

[dire igloo]

I feel like most dystopian sci-fi is about science being abused, not science itself being evil

It's criticism of humans and society.
To show people that greed and lusting for power are the driving factors behind humanity's demise

[night girder]

fucking AMD drivers.

First screenshot is 144Hz after turning off screen for a night and then turning it back on. Other one fixes it and is any refreshrate.
Once I go back 144Hz, gltich again. Started to happen with latest AMD drive update thinking of nukin git.

[cyan crescent]

If im building a 4 hdd nas for storage and media streaming, is a ryzen 5 7000 series enough?

[twin dew]

When in doubt, DDU.

[night girder]

yup

Either that or my monitor is dying.

If I extend my monitors, or duplicate the issue also dissapears.

Replugging HDMI cable into monitor fixes glitch behavior 🤷‍♂️ (Turning on and off monitor doesn't help)

[verbal raft]

a NAS doesnt need that much computing power i think

[twin dew]

Well, lot of small NASes are running with Atom CPUs.

[night girder]

🎵 Another day in AMD paradasise 🎵

[cyan crescent]

Ok. If i had 4 SSDs, whats the lowest cpu i could get away with?

[twin dew]

The prebuilt ones.

Depends more on how fast network adapter is used, and if there are additional stuff running beside just windows file servicing.

[dire igloo]

My go to motto:
If it's GPU, try DDU

[twin dew]

For normal 1Gbit/s ethernet, Atoms are fine, and even 2.5Gbit/s.

[cyan crescent]

It will be its own “network” that people connect to the nas over its own wifi and download and upload to it. This will be on a ship.

[twin dew]

And that NAS will still connect to that network with some kind of ethernet adapter or like.

Which limits the total speed that it can service, probably before even weak CPU will.

[cyan crescent]

Well considering it would be in the middle of an ocean with it being probably the only thing putting out wifi or one of the few in the compartment, wifi speeds may not be an issue.

[twin dew]

I didn't ask about the WiFi.
I asked the network connection of the NAS itself, to whatever WLAN APs are being used.
Speed of THAT connection.

[cyan crescent]

Ok.

Could I saturate a 10g connection if i had SSDs with like 10-15 people accessing it at any giving time?

[twin dew]

The backhaul between the APs and the NAS.
As even if the NAS has 10Gbit/s adapter, but the APs only have 1Gbit/s, then you would need 10 APs to even theoretically hit that 10Gbit/s of the NAS, if the main switch actually has 10Gbit/s port.
And if the NAS is only connected with 1Gbit/s itself...

[cyan crescent]

I have an AP with a 10gig connection. 2 to be precise

One native 10gig Ethernet port and the other was an sfp port that i put a 10gig Ethernet adapter in

[twin dew]

And basically any APs wireless "headline" speed can be divided by two for single user, and divided by three or more if there are multiple users on same band.

If that user is right next to the AP.

[night girder]

• Adrenalin 25.9.1 (WHQL Recommended) ready on USB stick ✅
• DDU ready on USB stick ✅
• Ready to boot unto safe mode and do DDU ✅

[twin dew]

But when for example Synology RackStation RS4021xs+ with dual-10G and up to 40 drive bays has Intel Xeon D-1541, 8-core CPU with 2.1/2.7GHz frequency...
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/91199/intel-xeon-processor-d1541-12m-cache-2-10-ghz/specifications.html

[night girder]

Oh fuck. Pull out internet chords. ❌

[twin dew]

Their top model rack mounted pure storage server.

[night girder]

am I forgetting something? 🤔

If I do safeboot without networking.

Can I trust it?

[twin dew]

Well, it won't have networking while in that safe mode.
But it also doesn't do anything with network anyways while in safe mode.
The point of that DDUs "Disconnect network before" is to prevent WU working once back in normal OS without drivers.

[night girder]

Like that should be no network safemode right?

Oh, because I can't install shit while in safemode ofc.

[twin dew]

But with AMD, you need to let that go through for most part, because otherwise it will do WU driver over the manual driver.

[night girder]

So, safe mode, nuke drivers.

Normal mode (no internet), install chipset.

I though I could install in safemode.

[twin dew]

And don't use that permanent toggle?
Shift+restart, then go into safe mode via the menus.

[night girder]

no no.

howtogeek told me this 🤣

According to them; The quickest way to get into Safe Mode in Windows 11 is with the "msconfig" utility.

I never used it. Wanted to test it out.

[twin dew]

That one is dangerous and stupid anyways, as it sets that as the permanent default.

And some monitors cannot handle the low resolution today...

[night girder]

And aslong you don't do this.

[twin dew]

So you can not get picture to disable it.

[night girder]

No it doesn't.

don't toggle on "__make __permanent" ???

[twin dew]

No, that safe boot toggle is always permanent, at least when I have tried it, even if that make permanent isn't selected.

[night girder]

That is weird.

[twin dew]

Yes.

[night girder]

Well, it's in microsoft official documentation here and there.

Once in Windows RE, select Troubleshoot > Advanced options > Startup Settings > Restart

I hate this method. So ... ugh

You gotta restart, wait for half boot, then press buttons, then do restart again, wait for restart and then you go.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but at least that one doesn't get permanently enabled, until disabled via MSconfig again.

[night girder]

That's 2x restarts. Or 1.5 🤦‍♂️

[night girder]

Well I don't read anything about permanent enabled.

Might have been a you issue. (only occuring to you)

but I doubt microsoft provided a "enabled permanent" button and then has by default, shit enabled permanent.
I would not be surprised, if the tool is bugged and they put permanent as default without the user knowing and UI visible.

[twin dew]

That "make permanent" isn't enabled by default, and I have never checked it.
But the Safe boot setting has been getting permanented.
But try yourself if you want to.

Enable via MSConfig, boot to safe mode, reboot and see what happens.

[night girder]

Haha 🤣

Mhm. Ok for science.

[twin dew]

At least if rebooted again before login, will reboot back to safe mode.
And IIRC does the same even after login.

[night girder]

Dafuq.

[twin dew]

Yeah, the make permanent seems to just be about the center column selections.

[night girder]

Uhu.

Also what is this?

Is that fast boot stuff?

[twin dew]

Modifications to that Normal Startup.

[night girder]

but I haven't set that (remember me telling it's first time using this tool?)

[twin dew]

Gets autoset by that other side for funky reasons.

When set to that Safe Boot.

[night girder]

Ok, though so.

[twin dew]

Basically using MSConfig to get into safe mode in normal case is just weird.

As the settings don't do what you would expect.
And can get you into broken state if your monitor cannot do 640x480, until you get monitor that works.

[night girder]

but I hate it 🙁

[twin dew]

Yeah, the other way is annoying too.
But at least it cannot lead to "no picture until I get another monitor" state.

And first time you forget to use MSConfig first to set back to normal boot, you lost the time advantage.

[night girder]

bcdedit /set {default} safeboot minimal maybe? 😛

[twin dew]

If you use the inside DDU option to boot into Safe Mode, it sets that MSConfig thing, but sets itself to autostart and removes the setting as part of that autostart after login.

[night girder]

wait, there is DDU option that can do this?

[twin dew]

So even that is better than using MSConfig directly.

[night girder]

I was reading the readme and said, run inside safe mode 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Second from bottom in the Options, then when enabled it asks if you want to boot to Safe Mode on each start in normal Windows.

[night girder]

Ok, cool to know. I just do it the windows recommended way for now 😄

Well that fixed something.

I can now tune my CPU again. That options dissapeared a year or two ago.

The whole CPU section was gone for ages. I though AMD removed it for reasons. But after DDU, it's back.

Too bad I can't underclock CPU from Adrenaline 🙁

[visual tree]

@night girder Please don't switch to Nvidia. Stay with us 🙏

[twin dew]

RDNA1 (5000-series) does have more general issues that aren't in the later RDNAs, or the earlier ones with completely different arch.

[night girder]

I am not going to lie. My weird little brain sometimes wants to go back to Nvidia.

But people will give me 💩 for it in this channel. Not realizing. That I game on a Nvidia system for about 8 years without a **__single __**issue.
Ok one issue, at one point, on of my fans blew up in my case. A little bit of shrapnel. Replaced it and all good to go.

What is even more crazy, that my niece is still gaming on that old Nvidia system. With no issues. Meanwhile I got "brand new" AMD systems for two years. With issues non stop from the get-go.

So purely based on experience, I had more luck with green than red so far.

[twin dew]

More about the non-GPU parts.
So would you have been better with Intel CPU, than AMD CPU?
Taking into account how long it took for the actual cause of the 13th and 14th gen stability problems to come out.

[night girder]

And I am not kidding, I really can't think of any issues I had on the Nvidia system. Not a single one.
The most annoying thing was that I sometimes had to re enter my account information to updatre drivers in experience.

[visual tree]

But...but...it was said you were supposed to destroy them, not join them!

[twin dew]

You would almost certainly have the exact same, or worse, problems with current system with Nvidia GPU.

[night girder]

I let you know if I ever get this system stable. And how much it costs me.

[night girder]

We don't know do we?

[dire igloo]

exactly

you don't know

[night girder]

Might have gone with Intel and Nvidia and had 0 issues.

[dire igloo]

might've had the same issues
or other issues
maybe even worse ones

[night girder]

I would never mix Nvidia with AMD to begin with.

So I would go; intel + nvidia or amd + amd.

[night girder]

Ok, let's just think facts here.

[twin dew]

And then you would probably have been in that 13th/14th gen instability mess.
Ok, that would now be fixable with known things, but for couple of years people hit were really pulling their hair.

Which is what I did reference little earlier as the alternative.

[night girder]

8 years: 0 issues.
2 years: 10000000 crashes and issues. Replaced CPU. Thinking of replacing PSU/Motherboard. CPU tuning dissapeared from AMD software. Now I get refresh rate issues at the bottom of my screen. Had to do DDU. Never done that for Nvidia system.

[dire igloo]

why?

[dire igloo]

ddu is a part of troubleshooting. you do it to eliminate gpu driver as a cause.
if there's a stutter issue in a new game on an Nvidia GPU, you should run DDU for that too

[night girder]

I know it's some sort of bias going on in my head. But on the other hand, I don't find it that weird to have this bias.

[dire igloo]

eh, as long as you know that this bias isn't based in fact, idc

[night girder]

If I drive a mercedes car that works for 20 years. With low costs.
And I then buy a Toyota and it falls apart while leaving the garage.
I mean ... people would draw conclussions 😛

[twin dew]

And would you have had that bias when you were buying current computer, or has it only come afterwards.

[night girder]

Yaeh, I know you totally would ignore it. Why go on experience right? Just keep doing the same stupid thing again. But I don't. Because it's my money

[dire igloo]

except you changed everything else alongside the GPU, no?

[night girder]

Afterwards after experience? I can only draw conclusions after using something, no?

[night girder]

Nvidia + Intel system = works untill this day (more than 8 years) without issues. never replaced anything besides fan.
AMD + AMD = doesn't work. Never been stable.

[dire igloo]

so the proper analogy would be:
drive mercedes for 20 years: no issues
move to new city, new garage, new driveway, new streets, new walkways, new traffic poles, new car: car breaks immediately

and then you blame the car

[night girder]

afaik, my games didn't change 😒

[dire igloo]

did you run the same install or did you do a fresh install?

either they changed (which is the proper way) or they didn't (which is bad)

[night girder]

well fresh, but the games I played 10 years ago, crash on this AMD system 😛

[twin dew]

And the current probable causes are still MB or PSU?
And not anything related to the GPU.
That "Nvidia might have made it worse", would be if the cause is the PSU, as Nvidia GPUs have much more unstable current draw.

[night girder]

I mean, I have the issues on every possible game eventually 😄

[night girder]

Who knows. Now with the refreshrate bullshit and DDU. I give it some time.

Those are the crashes since I started to collect em this summer 😛

So I can get an idea on average how long the system can run.

And now, I don't even know why, I still keep trying to get it stable.

[visual tree]

I was using intel in the past + amd gpu, then moved to intel + nvidia and currently at amd + nvidia. Planning to buy RX 9700 XT and a new ryzen cpu

[night girder]

I have not ruled out GPU at this point.

[twin dew]

But like I said earlier, in the end RDNA1 seems to have had some issues that were never fixed.
Which don't affect anything before or after from AMD.

[night girder]

Because it would not surprised me if GPU eventually gets in weird state, draws weird current from PSU/MOBO and eventually crashes.

[twin dew]

And if that CPU OC part was missing from Radeon Software, then that was weird.

[night girder]

not weird. Common isusue.

I noticed it before it was gone, looked it up, saw more people noticed it. Then someone said; AMD removed it for our protection.
And I went with that.

[twin dew]

I didn't mean it might not have been common problem, just that it wasn't universal thing.

[night girder]

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/cpu-not-showing-under-the-tuning-tab-in-adrenaline-software.3845542/

[night girder]

Like I said; I assumed AMD removed it because people did dumb stuff 😄

But you right, DDU did fix something.

[twin dew]

Never been missing from my main computer with AM5.

[night girder]

And you yourself said it could still be CPU. "If you motherboard is broken, then it's damaging your CPU again, and then you have both broken, again."

[twin dew]

Currently at 25.6.3 drivers tho, haven't updated more.

[night girder]

https://www.reddit.com/r/radeon/comments/1kl41lk/overclock_cpu_option_gone_in_adrenaline/

[twin dew]

Yeah, but that would be broken MB, breaking CPUs.
Not just CPU alone.

[night girder]

Well what if CPU broke motherboard, then motherboard start breaking CPU? 🤔

[twin dew]

And even there are comment(s) about DDU and reinstall fixing it.
Something broken in the update process, breaking it, between some specific driver version change, or some other unknown factor.

[night girder]

What did I say wrong again to end in this discussion? 😄

Ah, that I had more luck with green hardware than red hardware. And it was going to trigger people in this chat 🤣

[dire igloo]

you made claims that were true and drew conclusions that weren't

[twin dew]

Mainly that you have been basically ranting because of sample size of 2 computers.

[night girder]

My first system was AMD and it was shit. But I bought it prebuilt.

So can't blame AMD. It was different issues.

[twin dew]

And even you several times said this is basically just feelings right now.

[night girder]

Yeah, for sure. 10 year system stable as fuck vs 2 year flakky system.

[twin dew]

Which is completely insufficient sample size to say anything what would have happened if you had bought Intel + Nvidia system this time.
Or even tiny bit different AMD system.

Even more when there is 8 year difference in the build date.

[night girder]

Then nobody can say anything about Nvidia or AMD stability? Because nobody has the right sample pool. 🙄

[glossy glacier]

i saw a comparision once between amd and nvidia drivers, basically 50/50

[night girder]

Whatever you do, don't ask LLM

Which basically tries to summarize the opinion/feelings/experiences of the internet on that subject 🤣

[glossy glacier]

i know to not ask an autocomlete software for answers

[twin dew]

As consumers, not really.
Because we basically only have our own experiences, and the various forum comments from people with same level of data.
Making the data completely useless, as only people with problems complain, and the total sample size isn't known, only the amount of people complaining etc.

[night girder]

...

[twin dew]

Basically "I feel like" level of actual validity in all cases.
As the data just isn't available to us as consumers.

[night girder]

... as only people with problems complain

Just hypothetical. If 90% of complains are AMD. and 10% of complaints are Nvidia.
One could draw a conclussion.

You are not wrong. People only complain when they have issues.
But they post their build. So it's possible to sort that out per system.

[twin dew]

Very tiny amount of people post their builds compared to total systems.

[night girder]

Well if they have issues. They should post their hardware atleast?

Or people will ask; GPU, CPU, PSU, MOBO etc.

[twin dew]

But point is, those are just the people using that specific forum or like, with problem, that they bother to post about.
And the amount of non-problematic similar systems is completely unknown.

You need thousands to tens of thousands of systems, knowing the total population problem ratio, to say anything realistic.

[night girder]

True. But I go on my own experiences 😉

[dire igloo]

most people who have nvidia got it in a prebuild - and if they have issues, they contact customer support, not public forums

[twin dew]

So just purely "MuTu-pohjalta" (Musta tuntuu -pohjalta) = "I feel like -basis".

And the point is that that is very invalid "data", but it is what the person feels.

Point is to learn to recognize when going purely by "MuTu".

[night girder]

Well, nobody in here can proof that Nvidia + Intel systems are in general, more stable than AMD systems. All I can say that my experience is that Nvidia + Intel was more stable. Can be luck. Then you have the general sentiment on the internet, that Nvidia is better. Can be the price making people think that. Who knows. Or there might be some truth to it. Even LLM (which tries to sumarize internet kinda) is like, eh, Nvidia.

[twin dew]

But point is, that that is a feeling, based on so tiny bit of data that it is completely meaningless as basis for rational decisions.
Any decision based on that is purely feeling based.

[night girder]

Then the counter arguments are; it's Nvidia PR to make AMD look like shit. Or AMD was shit 10 years ago that's why people still think that etc.

Well if there is no proof to decide on. One has to go on experiences and other data no?

[twin dew]

Point is that everyone needs to learn to recognize between feeling-based and rational-based decisions.

[night girder]

And many other factors influence a decisions of course. Price. Aesthetics. Branding etc.

[twin dew]

And the point is that usually those "experiences" are not valid as basis for rational decisions, which needs to be recognized.
You can use the feelings, but not recognizing that you are bringing feelings into the decision making can be very dangerous in some situations.
Not in computer buying of course.

[night girder]

How do you make a rational decision then? Without knowing facts.

[twin dew]

I would be lot richer if I knew.
Because AFAIK that is question that no-one known reliable answer to.

Which is why I have just talked about need to recognize when your thinking includes the feelings part.

Not to discard it always, just recognize.

That is exactly the thing that leads to preferring certain brands etc.

Even when things have changed since last time you bought something etc.

[night girder]

What is wrong with that? Like I said so many people buy stuff based on experience.

if I buy popcorn from X brand, and I like the taste more than Y brand, is it wrong to stick with X brand?

[twin dew]

More like for example with cars where that kind of experience can easily fail.

Large, seldomly done purchases.

[night girder]

A lot of people swear by (older?) BMW for a good reason 😄

[twin dew]

Who have pretty horrible reliability in the end, and expensive repairs.

[night girder]

But I agree, it's somethign to keep in mind. Brand-bias. I wouldn't neglect it either though. There can be some wisdom in it.

[twin dew]

Which pretty variable model reliability.

[jagged snow]

Unless you're in the states
They have a bad rap here for cost of repair 😄
And they do have their issues

[night girder]

highly depends I think 😄

[night girder]

Are you sure it's BMW fault 🤣 maybe biased

[twin dew]

And point with cars, there is so much model variability with all makers, and lot of change over the years with cost cutting etc. that "My current car was great, I'll buy same brand without research" is bad idea in general.

[jagged snow]

Generally it's the fact that an oil filter will run you 50 euro or more on a 30yo car

[night girder]

🤷‍♂️ Not my problem you got tarrifs on all that stuff. If in US. Look it up, EU car tarrifs are from the 80's or soimething. Introduced when EU tarifed chickens. For real.

[jagged snow]

And that it takes 2-3x as long to do an oil change as the car I drive now

[twin dew]

And the work costs etc.

Work costs because of that extra time for things.

[jagged snow]

And that the head gaskets on pretty much everything they made from '90 to 2000 were more or less a 50k km wear part

[night girder]

non of those issues here.

[jagged snow]

Are you saying that "that has never been an issue in belgium" or "Me as a sample size of one did not experience that"

[twin dew]

Basically when I helped to buy used car, didn't look at the maker at all, just engine and model specifics.
And even that of course was just MuTu level "what are the common problems reported, are those expensive or just general things".

Like VW 1.2L turbo gasoline engines with very expensive common problems once you go past about 150 000-250 000 km

[jagged snow]

There are some manufacturers that I'd absolutely avoid during specific time frames because they were known for bad quality materials or manufacturing across their lineup

[night girder]

I barely hear anyone complain in my country about BMW having those problems.

People really like them here.

[jagged snow]

Remember, specifically 300 series in the 90s

[night girder]

And myself own one. Well kinda.

[twin dew]

But that comes up in that car model/year specific data too.

[jagged snow]

Definitely

Its also important to look at the type of problems that are common

[night girder]

On what did you base this statement, what data?

[jagged snow]

Industry experience as well as MTBF charts

They can be difficult to dig up but they do exist

And to be clear
Some of what I said was exaggeration

[twin dew]

BMWs are more expensive to maintain, both because of higher first party parts costs, and more time consuming maintenance procedures for repairs.
Basically everywhere.
Comes from the designs, where they are optimized for performance at cost, instead of repairability.

Now common problem with lot of late cars is that they have been designed optimizing for build cost, at cost of repairability.

[jagged snow]

The 2-3x for an oil change is based on bluebook times

[twin dew]

With expectation that the car is supposed to last past warranty, and then die and be replaced as whole.

To make 3 year leases not need lot of maintenance during the lease time.

And for the cars basically to be scrapped at the end.

[jagged snow]

Which is why I still buy cars from around 2000 and not newer

[night girder]

Right ... where? Like I said. You cannot compare buying parts for BMW in US to Europe.

Also, countries where a brand is represented more, or x model, have more spare parts eventually. Because the old ones get used for parts.

[jagged snow]

You really can't base repeair costs off of junkyard replacements

You either go with new or reman costs

[night girder]

Btw, I was wrong about chicken tax.

It only applies on trucks

The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks (and originally on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy) imposed in 1964 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.

But stuff like that can impact price of parts. Less EU trucks in the US = less parts = more expensive to find part if you have EU truck somehow.

[jagged snow]

Yep

It's a small part of why we can't have the hilux here (big part is emissions)

[twin dew]

Yes, but point is that BMWs are more expensive to keep running than VW:s for example (in general sense) even in Germany.

[jagged snow]

And less expensive than something like a porche

(Although that actually depends on era some too)

[twin dew]

Yes, very broad generalization, on fleet-wide basis, as individual cars will have wild variability in what breaks.

[night girder]

So we can say this about car brands. Not hardware brands. 👌

[twin dew]

Can be different for model to model.
So actual comparison needs to be done on that basis, just that in VERY general sense, performance and/or luxury brands have more expensive repairs.

Not just in cars.

[jagged snow]

I would argue that you can say it about some parts of brands sometimes (ex. gigabyte psus)
However, evga has some excellent psus that I would absolutely trust with mission critical hardware and some that I wouldn't trust not to blow up trying to power my front usb

[visual tree]

It's funny how our most reliable car was Opel Vectra from 1999 and when you mention Opel, people are like...meh....

[night girder]

and cars using parts from other brands 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Like that in very general way, Intel systems were seen as stable, if you didn't fuck up something yourself, until we got 13th and 14th gen 🤣
But in reality retail MBs were fucking stuff up even before that, but just in small enough numbers to it not matter in general view.

[jagged snow]

And right now, almost every major am5 vendor has killed several cpus with just absolutely wild bad design

[night girder]

I am a bit surprised there is not data on this.

You can look up car brands and their rate of failings.

But not for AMD vs Nvidia systems.

Imagine Nvidia and AMD start to log every crash they can and keep it in a public database 😄

[jagged snow]

Amd and nvidia do log every driver crash by default unless you disable it

But there's no way they'd make that public unless they were darn sure it was much better than the competition

[night girder]

Now just put it all in a public database so we can compare 😄

[twin dew]

And would be impossible to know how many of those would be from stuff like XMP not being stable in the specific system.
Or owner setting Curve Optimizer to -30 without testing etc.

[night girder]

you can check that probably.

if messed with bios or overclocked or underlock; ignore result.

So you get a sample pool of "default" systems.

the same can be said for the cars you talked about.

What if there is only 1 BMW driving around in the US?

What if the owner messed with their BMW and wasn't using stock parts. 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Also:
Used BMWs are much more expensive for same age and drive life than lot of alternatives.
So for same used buy price, the car will on average be either lot older, more worn, or both, necessiating more maintenance for same use for the new owner.

At least here, because so many young people want used BMWs, keeping the prices high, even discounting the higher sticker prices as new.

Compounding the other stuff.

And then those young drivers in high-performance rear-wheel drive vehicles wreck them during the winter, as they are much harder to drive, lowering the supply even more.

[pure karma]

maintenance is a suggestion

all motorised anything i own is from the 80s and held together by many years of 0$ repairs and a dream

[twin dew]

Harder to drive compared to front wheel drive vehicle.

And not counting how fun playing with one with bad grip is, until you lose control and wreck it by accident doing that in wrong place.

[jagged snow]

Only if you don't take pride in the things you own

[twin dew]

Or have yearly safety inspections to pass.

Also, not doing oil changes etc. will wreck engine completely with time.

And not doing brake maintenance as needed will end up with very expensive repairs.

Etc.

[tribal kraken]

My 1998 Camry. Dropped the rear subframe last weekend. Rust damage failed inspection. Tomorrow install new one.

But chassis work on this old car expands quickly. Need replace ABS sensors, most of the handbrake parts too. Not only they are worn but cant dissamble without destroying them

These long bolts holding lateral links to hub took also hours

[pure karma]

Thats still mint all things considered

[pure karma]

Give me a ring whenever you manage to find brand new parts off the shelf for something made 40 years ago

Not much other than spark plugs starters and batteries that are still the same

[jagged snow]

That's bs lol