off-topic-tech

[cyan crescent]

Fair but you have a 100wh limit for planes per bank

As far as im aware

[twin dew]

For any kind of battery included in device.

[cyan crescent]

I assume it applies to power banks as well. They probably dont want someone walking on with a 2000wh battery

[twin dew]

Power bank is a device.
The other option is "raw" battery, which have much lower limits.

[cyan crescent]

My current one is like 96.75wh or around there

[quasi citrus]

a sentence i did not see coming

[cyan crescent]

Agreed

[pure karma]

for now...

[cyan crescent]

This is my current one rn.

[pure karma]

isent that tiny tho?

[night girder]

Damn, there is 8mm thick banks out there?

[pure karma]

because if im nto mistaken every battery i own is more than that

[night girder]

8mm 🤨 That's the thickness lol

[cyan crescent]

Most batteries that are portable are most likely under that limit

[twin dew]

You can make li-ion battery in almost any size.
So capacity is mostly just about the total volume.

[cyan crescent]

Most if not all laptops and tablets are under that limit.

[night girder]

still 8mm!

[pure karma]

if your bank is 96wh my phone is double the limit

same for my laptop

[cyan crescent]

I doubt your phone is bigger than that.

[night girder]

This iis the most thick "powerbank" I can find.

[twin dew]

Basically all.
Because once you go over, then it is hazardous cargo that needs expensive extra handling and can basically only go onto dedicated cargo flights even then etc.

[cyan crescent]

That battery bank is physically larger than my phone. Iphone 15 pro max

[night girder]

Why they call it powerbank and not UPS at that point, no clue.

[pure karma]

the math is not mathing

[cyan crescent]

A ups and power bank are similar but not the same

[pure karma]

my laptop gives 945wh

[cyan crescent]

Where tf are you seeing that?

[twin dew]

No it doesn't, you are doing conversion error somewhere.

[cyan crescent]

96wh mean it can supply 96watts for 1 hr

[twin dew]

Wh, case matters with units.

[cyan crescent]

Bits and bytes, yes.

[pure karma]

oh yea no nervermind its only 52

[cyan crescent]

So smaller than my battery bank.

[pure karma]

no cause your bank is 26Wh or atleast the one you sent anyway

[cyan crescent]

Im trying to find a battery bank in a similar form factor to my current one with a capacity as close as possible to 100Wh

Its 96Wh.

[pure karma]

if only i could upgrade it lol

drawing 100W on a 50Wh battery sucksssss

[cyan crescent]

Ive never seen case matter for dealing with watt-hours

30min of capacity right there

[pure karma]

yep

[cyan crescent]

Assuming no losses

[pure karma]

of which 20 is usable and its already dropped from wear down to 44Wh so its literally just e waste already

250Wh laptop battery when lol

[cyan crescent]

Never

Then it would need special requirements on planes

[pure karma]

thats not my problem

[twin dew]

Cannot find actual Wh capacity of that Anker anywhere, just the max output wattage, and meaningless mAh numbers, as voltage isn't told.

[pure karma]

i want a usable product

[cyan crescent]

It says the Wh physically on the battery

[twin dew]

Ok, then.

Yeah, the other manual version included it in the specs part.
Actual product pages didn't.

[cyan crescent]

Its dumb how it doesn’t say Wh on their pages online

[pure karma]

also whats GT/s

[twin dew]

GigaTransfers per second.

As you can move different amounts of data per clock cycle, that abstracts that part away.

[cyan crescent]

Also, for some reason, anker is still selling a battery bank with micro usb

[pure karma]

makes sense

both the controlers i own still use it

and most cheap pheripherals use it

[cyan crescent]

I dont have any device that still uses it. Micro usb died a while ago. Even new cheap products ive seen dont use it

[quasi citrus]

for me that started with blizzard, Starcraft 2. I had to .ini dive to get the game to actual minimum specs and to get a decent performance out of it on an older but capable system.

[cyan crescent]

I cant even find micro usb cables in local stores around me.

[pure karma]

switch pro controller is the most popular i can think of off the top of my head but atleast the official black one and a few 3rd party's are USB c

[cyan crescent]

The switch pro controller is usb c

I have one device that i just remembered that still uses micro usb. Its a cheap controller from when the switch 1 first released. Even then, the idiots notched the cable and put the port in a hole so i can only use the cable it came with

[pure karma]

yea i have one of those that i modded but its pretty new

[cyan crescent]

It was like $25 at the time and a wired controller

[pure karma]

had it for like maybe 2 years at most

[quasi citrus]

my 8 -10 year old ebook reader 😄

it is still getting heavy use and regular recharges

[cyan crescent]

I had to get rid of my old kindle fire hd a few years ago. Was super slow, didnt hold a charge and took FOREVER to charge

[night girder]

wasn't starcraft 2 some assets they saved and turned into a game? My memory is foggy on that one. heard it while back somewheere.

[quasi citrus]

not sure what you might be refering to. Starcraft 2 resonates in my mind fairly positive besides my low specs isssues

[night girder]

It was meant to be a MMO. Then they (quickly) turned it into a what it is now.

Which could explain not that great performance/settings.

[quasi citrus]

i asked an AI what game you might be describing and it's answers where:

• final fantasy XIV
• Blizzard's Overwatch (MMO that it was suposed to be: Titan)

[night girder]

Oh maybe I am thinking of overwatch lol 😄

[quasi citrus]

everything about overwatch fades when people think about what they did with overwatch 2 😄

[maiden coyote]

Oh wtf, why won't you boot steam deck... please boot so I can play power wash simulator

[night girder]

whats the boot lights saying?

[oak mirage]

In case you want to know what these connectors are used for, my guess (based on the silk) is speakers and USB. The connectors themselves look like a FFC/FPC/ZIF connector, but they seem to lack an obvious locking mechanism. The best matches I can get is when looking for "wire-to-board" connectors. Can you see any branding?

[stiff temple]

No

I did find another item that has this style of connector

It’s on the battery connection within the victus 15 fb0121nr laptop

[night girder]

www.aikido.dev/blog/s1ngularity-nx-attackers-strike-again

Again? 😔

[pure karma]

linux moment

[night girder]

This appears to the be work of the same threat actors behind the Nx attack on August 27th 2025. This was originally published by Socket and StepSecurity who noted 40 packages had been comrpomised, since then an additional 147 packages have been infected with malware including packages from CrowdStrike.

[pure karma]

[jagged snow]

I think we're going to need some more advanced security around npm with how popular supply-chain attacks have become

[safe trench]

just build a stupid dangerous and inefficent hyperloop

dont worry daddy musk has a new vibranium skin technology for their 1 lane glorified pneumatic mail system

[night girder]

or don't use packages and code it yourself

[jagged snow]

Not usually feasible in js

I do that in embedded systems though

[safe trench]

chatgpt, generate 11845 lines of code for my j*b.

[dire igloo]

If a jab takes that much code, I wonder how much an uppercut combo takes

[charred relic]

uncle jeb wouldn't want that much effort put forth on his behalf...

[jagged snow]

Question: Do y'all think that fsr3 quality or fsr3 framegen will provide higher visual fidelity assuming ~120 fps native rendering?

[pure karma]

depends on the game

something like cyberpunk with all the rough edges would do better with the framegen

[thin trout]

upscaling will be less smooth but better latency

so it depends how you prioritise smoothness vs latency

for me the latency is okay with a base framerate at 120, and i would rather 2x the smoothness instead of reducing latency further. Higher FPS also reduces percieved motion blur through several mechanisms, and FG achieves that.

With DLSSFG or lossless scaling (the program) you can do 4x framegen as well which is a much better deal than 2x. Same latency penalty, 3x as many extra frames.

[jagged snow]

Wrong channel for that

[bronze jasper]

frame gen going from doubling the frames to 4x'ing the frames is only 2x the amount of frames

technically 3x the extra frames is correct, but i find it deceptive marketing style speak that would show up on apple promotion slides

[thin trout]

I don't think it's deceptive at all

If you're at 100fps then 2x fg adds 100fps for say +10ms of latency

4x framegen adds 300fps for the same +10ms of latency

+300fps for a set latency cost is a far better deal than +100

[languid gulch]

it's also mildly pointless, since the overhead for FG is still enough that you need a decent frame rate to start with to avoid seeing a lot of garbage

[thin trout]

even with the garbage, fg on is better than fg off

because having like 60fps cpu-bound sucks badly

limited framerate causes a lot of blur and all kinds of motion artifacts, like stroboscopic stepping, that a lot of people don't really think about because they've just always had it that way

[languid gulch]

seeing FG on the lower end GPUs that can't really handle it is a whole lotta ew

but that's also the ones that need it most

[thin trout]

ye and no

probably the best use case for FG is high end systems that just can't scale CPU FPS

like on a huge base for Satisfactory, you can take 120fps or you can take 120>480

and the 480 is massively better

you unfortunately can't buy a CPU that is 4x as fast or even 20% faster, not even for $5000, but FG bypasses the problem and still allows for strong motion fluidity even on extremely CPU-heavy games

[bronze jasper]

I was playing GTA v with frame Gen recently and the cars all had bumper echos while driving. Like a few ghosty bumpers behind me

Turned off framegen an they weren't there anymore. Some implementations are better than others

[thin trout]

Yeah, and depends a lot on the base fps on any of them

dlss3 and even nvidia driver framegen has been very good to me, but i mainly use it from a base framerate of 100-200. When you have the drops to 40 it's kind of polishing a turd no matter what, but it's still much less bad than not having FG at all from the games that i've seen

(shoutout to Blizzard for making games which drop to 40fps during normal gameplay on world record cpu)

[languid gulch]

ok has anyone else been having really awful youtube playback for the last day or so

[soft bloom]

Maxeek has

[soft bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FfMzWa6LKg
Civil engineer talking about disaster (flooding), probabilities, and climate change that makes all of that realy hard

[charred relic]

everything else aside just the unpredictability of nature makes it hard

there's an area in the north of this state that is sort of like a shallow bowl, great for capturing rain from a fairly wide area and rather efficiently funneling it into lake lanier

get some bad luck and a really heavy rain storm over that area for days on end and lake goes up, rivers and streams go up and next thing you know you have problems all up and down some of those rivers.

that "bowl" is both a blessing...and a curse

they do have a degree of control with flooding at that lake... as would any lake that size I guess

There is at least one silver lining to disasters like that, something is typically learned and improvements made.

[soft bloom]

when climate changes, your lookup probability tables are becoming hazards by giving false sense of security
and as he mentioned - nature wrecks with data collection, destroying sensors directly
and even US doesn't have much of them

and satelite data is often interpolating what it doesn't see directly, or extrapolating for finer temporal resolution

so it all looks good on paper while in reality not far off from predicting weather by superstitions aka "if ducks fly north at sunset tomorrow will be cold"

when observed behaviour of system starts climbing into predicted low probability events, there's decision to be made: treat it as local anomaly that is predicted to happen within error margins or start investigating if system has changed.
is it worth the trouble to develop whole new set of tolerance levels or just stock up on repairs?
but what if it is still changing? then what you decide now might become obsolete before you get a chance to implement new standards.

[verbal raft]

Visual fidelity wise FG will be better than that games FSR 3.1 100%

Especially at native 240 FSR FG will look really good
Upscaling depends on res but below 4K it will look really bad

[verbal raft]

Except FSR FG sucks in cyberprank

[dire igloo]

Except it's not technically superstition but tracking specific natural behavior patterns which can (and often do) indicate weather events.

Example:
"Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky in the morning, sailors take warning"
What's actually happening: the cloud formations that form those beautiful sunrises and sunsets often come before a storm.
So if the wind direction is east to west, a beautiful sunrise means a storm might catch you later that day.

These aren't superstitions per se, they're easy to remember patterns which may not be accurate but still handy to keep in mind in case you don't have access to good forecasts

[soft bloom]

yes they are patterns
though generally fall into that category, at least I haven't heard anyone giving that different name, other then "observing patterns"
and heard them being treated as pseudoscience pagan magic elderly practiced 🙂

[dire igloo]

The reasoning behind mouldy bread on open wounds was pagan elderly magic.
There were still actual scientific effects going on in the background which backed up the superstition

[pure karma]

i use it on arc and it work just fine lol

[twin dew]

Point is that it gives much less performance boost as it should, and looks crap, because of bad implementation.

Probably intentionally bad.

[verbal raft]

It looks like trash cuz cyberprank thinks vignette is UI

[verbal raft]

You should just use xefg on arc tho

[pure karma]

its not nearly as good since XESS has constant flickering and frame gen isent available for XESS

so you get double the performance on FSR

[night girder]

A recommendation was to use repository that scans for malware... but if even crowdstrike got infected.

[verbal raft]

Cb does have XeFG tho

[night girder]

And this is funny.

I see what went wrong.

[verbal raft]

And the games FSR 2.1/3.0 certainly dont look as good as xess

Especially since 3.0 has borked mip maps

[pure karma]

i mean my standards arent particularly high since FG off a 40fps native isent great for cyberpunk anyway but FSR gives more performance than XESS even if it "dosent look as good"

if anything i feel like i remember DLSS framegen being worst with smear even at 100FPS native

[verbal raft]

Though CB has a trash reactive mask for XeSS

(And FSR tho)

[verbal raft]

So it doesn't actually interpolate 90% of the screen

And the parts it does interpolate look like trash

[twin dew]

Should interpolate the lower down stuff anyways, and just reuse the vignette on top.

[pure karma]

you know i always wondered if thats why the game had so much smear at all times

cause even on dlss if you slow it down its BADDD

everything is just a constant blur of smear

and this is with over 60FPS native so not even the real frames are corect

[verbal raft]

Motion blur ?

[pure karma]

i dont use motion blur in anything so if it is which is probable its not disabled by the setting

[verbal raft]

Everything marked with pink is UI

[pure karma]

is that beamNG or cyberpunk lmao

[verbal raft]

And so FSR FG doesn't interpolate anything there

[pure karma]

beamNG moment

[twin dew]

Like I said, it should for the lower layers.
And just use the same "UI" layer on top.

[verbal raft]

Could have been fine if the devs just rendered UI twice like SF but they dont

[pure karma]

honestly dont know why they would try to add effects as UI

[verbal raft]

Either cuz its convenient for making FSR FG look bad
Or cuz they didn't know it would be a problem and they thought it was fine

[twin dew]

Because Vignette effects are for most part static mixed in partially transparent layers?
So doing one as UI is perfectly fine?
As it is just static filter applied to the final rendered frame, before the actual UI layer?
Rendered frame + Vignette layer + UI layer, mixed in together in steps.

That the Vignette is marked as UI, means to the FG, that the FG should use the rendered frame generated before the vignette layer is applied to that, for the frame generation.
Which is correct.

Render frame 1
Apply Vignette
Apply UI
Render frame 2
Generate frame 1.5 between frames 1 and 2, without vignette or UI applied.
Apply vignette for Frame 1 to Frame 1.5
Apply UI for Frame 1 to Frame 1.5

Most likely the vignette layer and the UI layer already get combined too, with vignette "below", so the parts hidden by non-transparent UI elements get completely obscured, before being applied on top of the rendered frame.

[dire igloo]

I know people who complain about TAA being immensely blurry/smeary and iirc that's force-enabled when using upscaling tech

[verbal raft]

TAA cant look that blurry tho especially TAAU algos
That's motion blur there

[pure karma]

I have va panels on all my monitors so im fairly use to smear on movement but even i could notice it in real time

[twin dew]

Lot of games by default apply insane amounts of motion blur in attempt to get same or more blur as with 24 FPS movie cameras...

[fickle gust]

Anyone managed too use fsr4 on 7900xtx on this card

For satisfactory

[dire igloo]

Still a contributing factor.
If it's blurry without motion, that's more likely TAA

[verbal raft]

@willow pike

[night girder]

implementing my own virtualization on a array because I don't want to install 5 year old NPM packages. And it works. But eh ... a bit buggy 😄

I was hoping to have infinite scrolling and keep around 50 elements in my array by doing a slice, array.slice(startIndex, endIndex). And when a user reaches the bottom of scrolling the startIndex and endIndex go up by 50. The startIndex initial valua is 0 and the endIndex initial value is 50.

But the problem is, this creates a exact group of array, always 50 and the scrollheight remains the same, ... it doesn't work. But if I just keep startIndex 0 and just keep adding to the array it does work and helps a lot with performance.

So not totally happy about it, but it loads 5x faster now 😄

[verbal raft]

1st: download the FSR 4 int8 DLL from here https://www.reddit.com/r/radeon/comments/1nhkkr8/fsr_sdk_leak_contained_fsr_4_files_that_work_on/
2nd download optiscaler https://github.com/optiscaler/OptiScaler/releases
3rd install optiscaler, 1st copy all the optisclaer files to [SF root]\Satisfactory\Engine\Binaries\Win64 launch the setup.bat file (press enter for the first two, and press 2 for the third option)
4th, copy the FSR 4 int8 DLL into that same folder and overwrite the old one
5th launch the game select FSR in game, press "ins" to open optisclaer and select FSR 3.X/4 then select FSR 4.0.2
should theoretically work

[willow pike]

what he said

am at wedding so cannot help more

it looks real good though

[tough owl]

products is kinda good ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I interact with it daily now

[night girder]

you didn't follow conversation it seems

[night girder]

refering to this 👆

So how good is a cybersecurity company when their own packages get infected 😄

[fickle gust]

So it does work okay

[fickle gust]

Can u tell me if higher speed belts are still a blur of color

I will be trying when I get home then

[verbal raft]

higher the framerate the more ghosty the belts get

[fickle gust]

The higher the fps what

I mean fair I do be getting like 220

[verbal raft]

ive noticed
all upscalers have that issue
TAA is the only one that works right there

[willow pike]

they are not for me

but i run at like 70-80 fps

cranked settings and lumen

[verbal raft]

with FG probably then

[fickle gust]

Yes frame Gen quality upscaling max settings

I turn it on cuz why not

[verbal raft]

the more "blurry" they get

i said ghostiy cuz thats whats really hapening there

the blurr is just a side effect of that

[fickle gust]

I see so frame Gen is also the issue I figured

It's fine otherwise but upon getting mk4 belts the blur starts

Or am I misunderstanding

[verbal raft]

FG doesnt count for rendering fps

and only rendering fps matters for blurr, ghosing, etc

[fickle gust]

Oh

So just upscaling or what then a little confused and sleep deprived sorry if I'm dumb rn

[verbal raft]

though you could try using optiscalers XeFG option, should look better
though for that you need the latest version which is only available on discord currently

[fickle gust]

I'm gonna try fsr4 first

I haven't in this game

[verbal raft]

nvm
i lied
last i checked this sort of ghosting was less at lower fps

but no

[fickle gust]

There's no items on the belt tho

[verbal raft]

same pretty muchso ignore what i said

[fickle gust]

I had poly resin on a belt and it just looked like a blue streak of light is more what I meant

[verbal raft]

theres less ghosting when there are actuallz items on the belt for some ungodlz reason

[fickle gust]

Idk maybe it was a one time thing was looking at plastic last night looked fine

[fickle gust]

I see

[verbal raft]

id saz this is mostlz clean

that was FSR 4, this is 3.1(.5)

[fickle gust]

I mean yeah looks fine idk I'll take a look again at it

Oh yeah def better

I'm hyped for fsr4 now tonight

[verbal raft]

TAA

[fickle gust]

I low-key think they leaked on purpose

Too soft launch or test it and if it goes well they might just add it

I doubt but possible

7900xtx runs it very well

Quality wise maybe a 5-10% fps loss but balanced and performance are usable

[verbal raft]

1st TAA 2nd FSR 3.1 3rd FSR 4 after camera movement 4th FSR 4 standing still for 10 seconds

[fickle gust]

What's ur fps difference like tho and what card

Oh I'm blind and on my phone

[verbal raft]

oh wait (35fps cap FSR 4)

[fickle gust]

Okay nvm only last one has it

[verbal raft]

thats why i thought it was better

like this it is actually better

[verbal raft]

no fps diference between FSR 3.1 and 4 since im on an RX 9060 XT 16GB

[fickle gust]

Oh

I wonder how increased power limit will play with this

[verbal raft]

FSR 4 AA 62
FSR 3.1 AA 62
XeSS AA 60 (similar performance to the int8 model on my card)
TAA: 65
TSR 60

[fickle gust]

Theoretically if I'm loosing a tad bit of fps I can add prolly 100w temps shouldn't go up too much but may give the preformace uplift where the hit from fsr4 doesn't really happen

580w is alot tho compared too 480w

[verbal raft]

i'd say just take the hit

[fickle gust]

Yeah but why not just avoid taking the hit with extra power

[verbal raft]

the XTX already isnt very efficient
add 100W on top and your power bills are gonna be way up

[verbal raft]

also, the int8 and fp8 models look almost identical

from my testing
the int8 one has slightly more ghosting and worse disoclussion artifacts

however its still much better than 3.1 or XeSS

[fickle gust]

Which is which idk fg model names or whatever

[fickle gust]

Meh power is included in rent and I use 700-800w on it so not really concerned with only 580w or so maybe less

I don't think it's that power inefficient

[verbal raft]

int 8 is the one that (theoretically) runs on everything
fp8 is what the official FSR 4 uses (on RX 9000/RDNA 4)

[fickle gust]

At that wattage I'm beating a 4090 so

[verbal raft]

no your not

[fickle gust]

Indeed I am

[verbal raft]

5080 at max

4090 ? im gonna need some serious proof

[fickle gust]

Not home rn but the gravmark is from my friends card who is on water and my card is on air and the timespy current best I'm able too do but I'm very temp limited

Oh my friend is goose

[verbal raft]

oh,
well synthetics dont mean anything

[verbal raft]

gaming perf will most certainly still be lowe than the 4090 stock

[fickle gust]

My friend gets about 50 more fps in hd2

I was seeing 110 at max settings 4090 he was saying 140-150

[verbal raft]

HD 2 is quite nvidia biased tho
anyway
doesnt really matter IMO

[fickle gust]

What

Next gen will be interesting that's for sure

[jagged snow]

Yeah

I paid 50% more for my latest GPU for 50% more performance

Paid 420 for a 6700xt and newest GPU was a 9070xt at 700

420 might be a little low

Can't remember what the exact number was, it was middle of the chip shortage right after launch

[twin dew]

Intergrated ethernet has basically gone away "for thinness".
But USB-adapters are cheap and plentiful.

Even my expensive 2017 laptop already had connector dongle for the ethernet port, as the base part was too thin for RJ45 connector.
Just pin-adapter like the PCMCIA network cards had long time ago for same reason.

Because this kind of things that Toshiba used in some model just don't work in long term:

[sterile plinth]

hm I paid 360€ for mine

420 doesn't sound very low

[twin dew]

That is why that laptop of mine uses this kind of dumb pin-adapter:

[jagged snow]

Well I mean low for what the market was
That was peak scalping era, when those cards were listed all over the place at 1k usd

[languid gulch]

reminds me of that "spiders make webs on different drugs" chart

[languid gulch]

lol

as terrifying as some animals are, remember that none of them hit the gym

[verbal raft]

https://youtube.com/shorts/xisJs-2603Q?si=GFH5MhB_DAKlHnvO

Actually heard that you can increase the performance in BL4 by enabling HW lumen (on RDNA 4 and ADA)

Via the engine.ini

I bet it looks better too

yeah, no
i mean i guess you could theoretically run it
but it'd be super low settings : (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WZcF4vakJk

god this is such a terrible experience on a 1080 TI

would be a tad better on the 6750 XT
but like 40 to 50 with these trash graphics is still not good

[visual tree]

I hate this timeline with unoptimized game crap

[verbal raft]

okay so its roughly 35% better

[pure karma]

its not even entirely just bad optimisation its also just that curent games need a lot more of it to reach the expected average quality of a game now than before

[verbal raft]

lol
1080p native lowest settings

they probably didnt give 2 shits about optimization when making this

they expected UE 5 would "auto optimize" it like epic markets it
but surprise surprise, no engine does that

yeah well console is probably at a super low internal res

i have nightmares of seeing this "running" on a steam deck

i would say it could be fine with that int8 FSR 4 model but its kind of like not working correctly on RDNA 2 : (

at least on windows
linux seems fine

[verbal raft]

like everythings ghosts like if was one of the old motion blur methods

[verbal raft]

looks like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1363941644067668018/1409233416448114808/20250823_003358.mp4?ex=68cc4664&is=68caf4e4&hm=e785bde3dab0e5be305ae681bf7aaacda7fc98bfb2a8279836619f83297f192d&

randy bithcford should just shut the damn up

[visual tree]

The last of us: part II is one of the few games released this year which runs perfectly fine and doesn't have performance issues

[verbal raft]

he just cant help but blame players for poor perf

[pure karma]

seeing the 4080 for the highest preset dosent seem reasonable to me even for 4K60 but atleast the rest is good

[verbal raft]

BL3 ran like trash on the times hardware too tho

[visual tree]

I am playing on 1080p with RTX 3060 ti on highest settings with ray tracing and the game is smooth

[verbal raft]

TLOU has RT ?

[pure karma]

so its just padded numbers???

at that point why bother if your only going to do it for the highest tier

[visual tree]

Correction: remastered version has a mod that makes the game look like it uses RT

[verbal raft]

love how they put the 4080 and 7900 XT in the same perf tier
i always found that odd

[verbal raft]

ahh

[visual tree]

Finally some new game I can play on highest settings with decent fps in a while

I find it funny how we used to ask: "Can it run Crysis?"

Now it's like: "Can it run any modern game without performance issues?"

I read an article today how some geek managed to run a server on an electric cigarette hardware

https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/s/yiVATRSuGL

[mental oriole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F9IuBWb-E

Npm may be fucked 🤣

[night girder]

yup

[visual tree]

I feel like there was an attack on some other servers this week. Couldn't load SAP today at work in the morning because it couldn’t connect to the server

And without SAP, I can't do like 50% of my work

"SAP Vulnerability Reportedly Exploited, Leading to Operational Disruption and Data Breach at Global Manufacturer

In early September 2025, a large global manufacturer publicly disclosed that their operations had been disrupted by a cyber incident. After further investigation, the manufacturer subsequently confirmed data was breached. Various sources have also reported that government agencies are now involved. News reports note significant impact to the manufacturer’s operations – from production to supply chain to sales and operations. It has been reported that production facilities have been shut down, and plant workers were instructed to go home until further notice. As of the date of this document, multiple sources report that vital IT systems remain offline, overall business operations remain paralyzed, and the extended shutdown is expected to take weeks, if not longer, before business operations can recover. Additional reports note that this cyber attack has had ripple effects throughout the supply and value chains, affecting thousands of employees and various enterprises who do business with this manufacturer around the world. Several industry analysts have estimated losses for this manufacturer at $6.8 million per day."

And my coworker recently said we should quit and apply for a position at the local SAP office 🤣

[quasi citrus]

also check how many months you can get for 80 € :D. to me that sounds like a good idea. Buying borderlands on sale in a few years is also an option afterwards

[quasi citrus]

the cloudgaming works fairly well for console stuff. but i wasn't to happy with xbox cloud gaming k&m implementation last i checked (April). So playing with controller is great but i didn't grow font of their idea of K&M support

[thin trout]

low settings, 720p>1080p (DLSS) + framegen takes >8GB of VRAM

it runs on an 8GB card, but it maxes out the allocation completely and you cannot raise settings

[cyan crescent]

Is anker experiencing a recall rn?

I thought i heard something about anker experiencing a recall

Im looking to replace my current anker power bank but im not finding a power bank in the form factor i want/need

My current one is the anker powercore elite 3

Im not seeing any xiaomi power banks.

I want power bank that isnt too thick that i can use for putting on the back of my steam deck and putting in a pocket for my wireless vr setup.

It will also be used for powering a laptop so i kinda want one that can output at least 100w. “Why a laptop? Use the charger that came with it?” I will be on a boat where charging may be difficult at times. Some breakers are easy to trip

What are old?

Thats why they wont work

For my use case. If they just continued selling my current one or just released an updated version in the same form factor, that’d be great

https://www.ugreen.com/products/ugreen-145w-power-bank-for-laptop?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22334559506&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuKnGBhD5ARIsAD19RsaE91J4LMZHHuyhQryARtjepwags9AEtDTw84CSsD-NWEjoDrk17RIaAqWBEALw_wcB

Found this one.

I switched from Samsung to Apple. No regrets

So is magsafe

Considering thats on sale for $67, i might get 2

I have an ipad i use for drawing and having stuff auto sync between devices is nice

Ec?

Uc?

Done?

Whats ux?

I went away from samsung cuz i hated how every other update was a ui change and also having 50+GB of “other data” that i couldn’t delete.

When i got my s20+, i was on the fence of switching or not. 2 weeks after i got it, i was regretting not switching

I like how everything just works with apple and there isnt really much of a difference between the 2 ecosystems now from what i can tell. At least for my use cases and what i care about

The very thing android was praised for is now getting basically removed

And its now making its way to apple

I got a smart phone when the s5 was a thing. Had the s5 then s8 then s20+ then iphone 13 pro max and now 15 pro max

Im 25. I aint young

My negative experiences with android, might just be a samsung issue, has pushed me away from android

Touchwiz?

All of my upgrades aside from the s20+ to 13 was me experiencing many issues on the phone

Usa

How so?

Like percent of people using apple?

Ios to ios is blue. Ios to android is green

Face time is ios to ios only i believe

A fair amount of people at my work use iphone

No

[pure karma]

a device that "just works" is incredibly powerfull yk

[cyan crescent]

Yq?

Im a techie with apple

[pure karma]

same

mostly cause i got it for free lol

[cyan crescent]

I had an iPad for drawing before i switched to an iphone so i figured screw it.

[pure karma]

thinking about it i have had a very lucky track record of free apple devices

i won a free ipad 3rd gen in like 2013

[cyan crescent]

Everything good about android phone being better at than iphones has basically been removed

[pure karma]

i bought a ipad 6th gen in 2018 which i still use mostly for the better performance

and then i got a iphone 15 for free recently lol

[cyan crescent]

I just recently upgraded to an m4 13” ipad

[pure karma]

i do kinda need to upgrade

not because i need to but because the artificial slowdowns are getting real

and the unoptimisations of recent times for stuff like the youtube app is getting so unbearable

random 30 second long buffering is painfull

[cyan crescent]

Dont forget people not optimizing for storage. Its why i got the 15 pro max with 1TB of storage

[pure karma]

storage has nerver been an issue for me on mobile

[cyan crescent]

On android, most storage issues were devs fault. On apple, it’s mostly my own fault now like having loads of pics, vids and music

[pure karma]

im at 78GB/128GB on my phone

and i record on my phone a fair bit

and the gopro app keeping a copy of files is 20GB of that

1+1=1

[cyan crescent]

My photos app alone is 79GB

One of my apps is 24GB

[pure karma]

technically true if you overlap them

[cyan crescent]

Me?

[pure karma]

How????

[cyan crescent]

Lots of memes and i have a drone that records in 4k 60fps

Then my tactically aquired files of tv shows and movies is over 100GB

[pure karma]

I have multiple 10+ minute raw recordings and a bunch of pics and im at 3GB 💀

[cyan crescent]

This is one 3min vid from my drone

[pure karma]

that makes sense

portable cameras are so inefficient its insane

[cyan crescent]

I record raw

[pure karma]

my gopro recording 1080P30 goes through 30GB in less than an hour

no

im near water a lot

although speaking of my gopro i havent seen it or even used it since i waterboarded it in pepsi on accident so it might be broken idk lol

[cyan crescent]

I do raw so i get more data when i edit

Ableton?

Whats that?

[verbal raft]

I see
I didn't note that cuz neither of those 2 are 8GB
one's 11 the other is 12Gb

[thin trout]

Ye just goes to show how fucked 5060 8GB etc is. Can't even run low settings with a 720p base render resolution properly.

[dire igloo]

And let's not forget the immaculate usability of DLSS on a pre-RTX series card

[verbal raft]

You can actually run DLSS on a 16 series card

Kind of
6ms+ upscale cost be like

[dire igloo]

16 series isn't pre-RTX tho, it came out with 20 series

[languid gulch]

special degree of fucked up

i wanna see amd apu vs 5060 with frame gen

[verbal raft]

Yah but it lacks tensor cores AFAIK

[fickle gust]

rumors of 3 or 4 years now is amd wasnt making high end this gen and working on a very nice card if true it very well could compete or beat the 6090 rumor is 2x rt performance and 4x of ai compared too the 9000 i believe the 7900xtx given high enough power limit can compete close too a 5090 and even beats a 4090 and thats 2 gens old at this point

now theese are rumors

but if true we are looking at a potently very nice amd card

This is without dlss or fsr but they get close

Either way it'll be a hell of an upgrade for me

7900xtx sadly doesn't do rt well so the rt preformace uplift is gonna be huge

[verbal raft]

RDNA 4 is already like 4x RDNA 3 Perf in some AI loads (fp16 IIRC) and twice as fast in most

[fickle gust]

So it's 4x AI and 2x rt then

I couldn't remember what the rumor was

Next gen is looking really good

In the meantime I'm gonna keep cooking up my 7900xtx and try too beat as many 5090s and 4090s as I can

Really need too figure out how I can up my score in this as my friend is really high and I'm only around 60k

[verbal raft]

I was wrong
Int8 got 4x

Rest is only 2x

[verbal raft]

But hey
Depending on the workload my 9060 XT is fatter than your XTX BTW

[fickle gust]

Def not

Well ai idk

Idk how much power would help there

[dire igloo]

definitely yes, the numbers are right there

[fickle gust]

Yeah but that's stock 7900xtx

If I were too give my card let's say 700 800w preformace is alot better

Idk how that would scale for ai

[dire igloo]

Do you get 80% more performance?

[fickle gust]

Or whatever

But gaming wise it's scales very well

[dire igloo]

Wait, no, that's absolute. 67% relative performance

[fickle gust]

I mean I can beat a 4090 in some games and my friend gets close too 5090 preformace

[dire igloo]

But that is "some games"

[fickle gust]

My friend gets 150fps 4k hd2 max settings 5090 gets 110ish

[dire igloo]

Not these usecases

[fickle gust]

Might be 4090

Actually I don't remember

[fickle gust]

And that is why I said idk. Idk how well it would scale for ai

[fickle gust]

Like right here

But there's a chance I'm close

[dire igloo]

You claim that for Int 8 and Int 4 (whatever those are) you can increase your performance by 67%

[fickle gust]

I'm not calming this what

[dire igloo]

Fair

[dire igloo]

Misunderstood the AI portion, my bad

[fickle gust]

I'm saying I can get closer too it and might be able too beat it I have no clue

Ah all good

I only game so I don't mess with stuff like that I mean I could test it maybe

[dire igloo]

To be able to beat it, you'd need a 67% performance increase in that usecase

[fickle gust]

But feels like a lot of work

[dire igloo]

Not worth it, only reason to do it would be spite

[fickle gust]

Ye I get that I mean u can get almost double the preformace from a stock 7900xtx in timespy

I mean stock can be like 25k-30k

And u can get upwards of 43k

[fickle gust]

Agreed

[dire igloo]

Btw @fickle gust how versed are you in RAM OC?
I want my RAM to run 3800 MT/s but don't wanna fiddle around, do you have some "should be safe" settings I can just copy paste over?

Here's the Zentimings readout in case it's relevant

[twin dew]

I really wouldn't expect that CPU to be able to do 1900MHz FCLK.
Even with 5000-series that is somewhere around 50%.

Ok, seems that the 3000-series and 5000-series are about the same for FLCK too, the older CCDs don't limit.

[twin dew]

But first step would be to see if the computer and the RAM is stable at 3600MT/s, or 3800MT/s with all-auto settings, except manually raised VDIMM and either auto or manually raised VSOC.

[dire igloo]

Dangit, sounds like work

[twin dew]

If it works on auto, then should be just able to convert the current timings to the new frequency.

[dire igloo]

Uhhhhhhhh

[twin dew]

As in I can do that then from that screenshot.

[dire igloo]

Ah

First of all: get home, set up PC again

[pure karma]

Just change the speed and see what happens

[night girder]

Finally, it works 🤣

[soft bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgFCC9haqB4
wow, so they are willing to fight like this?

[pure karma]

dosent surprise me much but its not going to happen or atleast a law like that shouldent pass

[verbal raft]

lol

[twin dew]

Wasn't that Int8 implementation conversion and not the original?

Ok, it was official, but only in the leaked source, hasn't been officially released by AMD.

Leaked SDK files includes a new FSR4 implementation with Int8 instead of FP8 (which tanks performance on older cards when tested)

The only downside is that it [Int8 version] can be expensive to run, taking up almost triple the processing power of FSR 3.1 on RDNA 3 (0.6ms vs 1.9ms), and quadruple the processing power of transformer DLSS on an RTX 3060ti.
This model was surprisingly designed to run on RDNA 4, though they later decided to go with FP8 which, while lowering the processing power requirements, made it compatible with only RDNA 4.

[twin dew]

So person is mixing the official FP8 only FSR4 implementation.
And the unintentionally leaked INT8 implementation.

[verbal raft]

i see it as this
he thinks AMD blocked pascal from FSR 4 int8 intentionally
even though that int8 build was 100% internal

[twin dew]

Seems more to be about his GPU not being able to run FSR4 in games, without using that source code leak version.
Not realising that the "actual" version is FP8, and not INT8 like the leak.

And that Int8 version was dropped in the end, because of the much higher performance costs on RDNA4.

AMD deciding that releasing and supporting two different versions, one which was just for "already sold" cards wasn't worth the effort, especially with the performance costs on any card.

[verbal raft]

yeah, thats true
2x the millisecond cost on int8 VS FP8 on my 9060 XT (1080p)

[night girder]

Man, I was testing something out that searchengine didn't get triggered when doing " " a bunch of spaces. And while I was hitting spacebar in the input field, it turned my double spaces into punctuations.

This led me to another bug in my application, I am using regex somewhere and the . start to select everything.
But besides that, wtf Apple? This is so annoying to have turned on by default, didn't even know it was a thing.

I know nobody here has a Macbook, but if you code and have a Macbook. My advice would be; turn it off asap 🤣

[fickle gust]

So I didn't do much with ram

In the discord I sent u

There's a ram channel with a guide too ddr4 and ddr5

Oh it wasn't u it was someone else ig

[bronze jasper]

Spotify doesn't want people in prison. The parts of the DMCA rossman talks about are for the most egregious of cases, such as someone hosting a piracy site and ignoring all takedown requests that are made. Not to enforceable if you don't live in America. It has been used against content hosts before, but most likely it won't be used against 99.9% of rossman's audience.

As usual, rossman is just hyperbolic and blowing things out of proportion. I liked his content better when it was all right to repair stuff and fixing laptops. He's out of his depth on these matters.

I think he needs less caffiene in his diet as well. He has a very hectic way of speaking.

[soft bloom]

https://scitechdaily.com/for-the-first-time-in-40-years-panamas-ocean-lifeline-has-vanished/
Once in 40 years having this observation occur "for the first time in 40 years" doesn't make it seem like a common event on human timescale, which is exactly why I worry

[soft bloom]

did YT just started auto-translating voice in shorts?
that's creepy

[dire igloo]

Wdym "just started"?
It's been bugging me for months now

[dire igloo]

How do you get "once in 40 years" from "for the first time on record"?

Also, of course it's not a "common event". The common event is the annual upwelling.
The issue is that it did not happen this year, there was no upwelling.

[twin dew]

When records only go back 40 years?

But yeah, that doesn't make it once in 40 years rate.

[dire igloo]

I know that that's where you get the 40 years, but not the frequency

It could be the first time in 500 years of which we only tracked the last 40

[dire igloo]

Yup, this

[soft bloom]

cause record observed 40 years
so it's not the T == 40 years, but T maybe gte 40 years
so it's a "in worst case scenario, we can make educated geuss that this happens once every 40 years"

were worst is for "if if event occurs more often - that's less great than rare"
which is a completely different metric from "if it's more rare, it must be more disruptive"

[twin dew]

That first time happens after 40 years of observation doesn't tell that worst case is once per 40 years.
Just that there was 39 year pause and might happen for next 40 years each year for example, if it is cyclical in 40 year stints.

[soft bloom]

what I am saying, is that seeing something for the first time in 40 years, is not great

[dire igloo]

And that's bullshit because it neglects anything that happened in the last 40 years.
Even if things remained stable at the status quo from here on out (which they won't), it can be much more frequent than that

[dire igloo]

Seeing something bad, no matter how long it took to happen or how rarely it might occur, is never great.
But you made it look like it wasn't that big of a deal since it was only after 40 years that it happened

[soft bloom]

ok, I don't care if you want to shit on my paraphrasing - just read the article. I am not adding any extra conclusions on frequency of the event to what is already stated in it. arguing about what I said is pointless in the context of article

[dire igloo]

I did read the article.
You didn't paraphrase, you misrepresented it, basically making up information

Which is why I'm calling you out on it

[soft bloom]

oh ,really?
idk, my point was that it's not great to this is after 40 years of observations

if you read the article, then my job here is done

[dire igloo]

Once in 40 years doesn't seem like a common event on human timescale

Sounds to me like "not a big deal, may happen once or maybe twice over a human's lifespan, no need to worry"

[dire igloo]

Your job was done poorly which is what I called you out on.
I hope you see why it's an issue that you misrepresented the information and deflected the criticism

[soft bloom]

exact opposite meaning

events that happened first on record or rarely, to me, are suspects to be evidence supporting that right now many systems on Earth are operating out of ordinary, dangerously
not just temperature being hotter, but also more cases of anomaly cold
not just floods but also draughts

I could have wrote my thoughts below the link
but who reads long messages these days?
if later most my thoughts were written down anyway, even if not by me

[soft bloom]

to me, if I know that something might happen once in 1000 years, I would worry, cause usually that's an event of large magnitude

if we had CampiFlegrei slowly erupting (even those same gasses that caused uplift) without ground impacted and no seismic activity - it would have been classified completely safe, even though you wouldn't exactly be able to walk over it or put a home on top

[dire igloo]

The elaboration you provided now is much closer to the article than the initial statement you made.
idc in what order you provide link and thoughts, I just disagreed with what you said

[mental oriole]

[soft bloom]

looks like Kamchatka is on a roll
another powerful earthquake

[night girder]

Fuck libreoffice. 😠

[night girder]

Also, linkedin will start to use EU data to train their AI.

So anyone not wanting that, go check your privacy settings or delete your linkedIN

chance deleting/disabling will have little effect and they will still train on all data available, because it's Microsoft. US gives 0 fucks what EU thinks They just pay the fines.

www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/a8059228

[thin trout]

worst social media site i've seen

[night girder]

Jobs require it over here. Like it's not even an option. Especially IT.

[thin trout]

insanity

[night girder]

You must have linkedIN. And keep it up to date.

[thin trout]

where is "over here"

[night girder]

And post x things per day on it.

[twin dew]

Basically was not meant to be social media, but networking tool and self-promotion platform for professionals.
And some companies have taken the use way too far.

[thin trout]

Some people too. Have you seen Tim Morten posting weekly rants about how it's everybody elses fault that he royally screwed up his latest project

[night girder]

and decade later, they just change the user agreement to; we can use your data for AI.

last time I agreed to the agreement was a decade ago, if they just rework it, and I never agreed with the reworked version, is it even legal?

Something doesn't sound right about this. A contract between two entities should not be changeable by one party. Since it's a contract between them.

[dire igloo]

They wouldn't if EU actually fined appropriately

[dire igloo]

I just use Xing and don't have LinkedIn.
Haven't felt any downsides yet

[twin dew]

And in this case, it would probably be GDPR violation, that allows for 10% of worldwide yearly revenue as the fine.

[dire igloo]

If anything, everything I've heard about LinkedIn made me happy to be a non-user

[dire igloo]

Which would be a fine that US companies would definitely not stomach easily.
As long as fines can be considered a business expense, they will be

[dire igloo]

iirc they have to notify you about a TOS change and depending on its contents, it's either opt out (no response until X date means you agree) or opt in (respond until X date or you'll account will be terminated)

[night girder]

Which they just pay. Or [insert_name_here] coerces EU to drop fines by threatening with fines/import/taxes etc.

It's a utter joke.

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-pump-spongebob-arm-spongebob-arm-spongebob-anchor-arms-gif-21693578

[twin dew]

10% of worldwide revenue (not profit) is actually large fine to almost anyone.

[night girder]

👆 That gif is the EU. Inflatable muscles, but no real muscles.

[night girder]

that never happens. You read the same news as me, and I know, you know it.

Sure, their are articles about fines, but x years later you read another article the fines are either dropped. Or they didn't care and the fines are just some pocket coins.

The fine will likely __not __be on the scale of a record 4.3 billion euro penalty imposed on Google by the EU competition enforcer in 2018 for using its Android mobile operating system to quash rivals.

[pure karma]

iv nerver used it more than to delete it and bring it down into the deepest pits of hell for being part of bloatland

[dire igloo]

The argument was about the potential fines, not what EU will actually do
#off-topic-tech message

[verbal raft]

interesing how AA methods effect Lumen reflections here

[night girder]

Who cares about potential fines? I care about the actual fines. And the actual fines are watered down versions.

I don't think the fines are doing much, besides giving EU an extra income. But for user privacy and what EU says the fines are meant to do, nah.

[languid gulch]

someone pointed out that BL3 had about the same fps on release with the top gpu at the time as BL4 does with the 5090

[glossy glacier]

5080, with or without frame-gen?

[languid gulch]

?

[pure karma]

Proof borderlands is a terrible franchise in that case lol

[verbal raft]

5090 is without FG there

[verbal raft]

this is too true lool

[soft bloom]

Eh, what did you expect?

[verbal raft]

that BL3 was better
Probably

[languid gulch]

more like "wow, people really don't remember things or bother to go back & check"

[wanton orchid]

now where the quality comparison

2080ti wasn't 5 grand

[languid gulch]

nothing to do with that

BL game, tested on highest tier gpu available at the time

[dire igloo]

It was because RTX 20 series didn't have a 90 series halo card
There was Titan RTX but iirc that one wasn't really considered for benching

[dire igloo]

Except Titan RTX might've been around - and if not, "highest tier available" ended a step below

[languid gulch]

it's on the original chart

below the 2080Ti

i cropped it to the highest performer

ah hang on, nvm, they tested the Titan X

RTX Titan here being basically the same as the 2080Ti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJItHtg4qtA

couldn't find a HUB test of the RTX Titan, probably because it wasn't officially a "gaming gpu"

also it was $2500 msrp

and the Titan V was $3k

[dire igloo]

Which was influenced by the starting chip shortage

[languid gulch]

then what about the titan V

[dire igloo]

I've said multiple times that the 90 level GPUs of the last three generations were mislabeled Titan cards

[languid gulch]

so in that sense the 5090 is actually cheap

and yes i do agree that they're titan cards

[dire igloo]

Significant price jump over the next lower tier, comparably small performance improvement, much bigger vram, big productivity improvement

[dire igloo]

idk, didn't follow

[languid gulch]

it was $3k

dec 2017 launch date

i'd lean towards saying that's because it was a commercial gpu & not consumer, but in that case we should compare current gen commercial GPUs & not something like the 5090. or call the 5090 an Ada Titan or something, in which case it's still the cheapest titan card

well, cheapest "officially"

i know nobody's actually getting a 5090 for $2k

LOL ok the titan cards are gaming gpus. apparently there was a Jedi Order collector's edition Titan XP

laughing my ass off at the TPU charts of previous titan models

Titan X was a 250W card, with an 8+6 pin

[dire igloo]

I love how Nvidia made the Titan X, then another Titan X based on Pascal architecture which people called Titan XP only for Nvidia to release an actual Titan Xp

[pure karma]

they need to release a Titan FG to celebrate frame gen

99% generated frames for 6999$

[languid gulch]

0 real frames, infinite money

[cyan crescent]

I now have 2 new ugreen power banks for my stuff while on deployment.

[languid gulch]

solar panels?

[cyan crescent]

No. Simple portable battery banks

90wh each

[languid gulch]

just under the airliner limit, like it 🤣

[bronze jasper]

its actually pretty fun. you can just play it at 1440p and get 60fps. it ran fine at launch. 4k gaming is still such a minority.

the survey says, 1080p is the majority of gamers still

i'm def going to buy bl4 but i'm waiting for a sale. i got bl3 at launch and i didn't need to really

it went on sale not long after

[languid gulch]

i think it was mainly a "wow people have forgotten" kind of discussion more than anything

not saying BL4 is supposed to have dogshit fps on release, but it's basically in line with history

and there's plenty of games that will make a 4090/5090 suffer, even ones that are years old now

[bronze jasper]

the "dogshit fps" is 4k. when bl3 first came out, 4k displays only had 30hz modes

and even fewer than 4.59% of gamers had 4k

[languid gulch]

yup, but it was tested under similar conditions

4K, maxxed settings

[thin trout]

AA doesn't, the temporal stuff does. AA is just one of a handful of effects of temporal processing

[dire igloo]

Isn't it 100W normally but you can go to 150w under some conditions?

also yeah, a lot of stuff is engineered to be speced just inside legal limits.
look at all the 249g drones

[thin trout]

I don't really think this is accurate

Cyberpunk PT is one of the worst known gpu killers and it runs faster than BL4 does

5090 is extremely capable

that being said, BL4 has some settings that you can turn down for +50% performance at kind of negligable visual cost. That brings 1080p 5090 perf up from 90fps to 140, or mid-high 400's with 4x framegen.

It is still ridiculous given that it has shitty lighting/shadows/reflections that aren't really properly ray traced, let alone path traced, and it has a cheap / low quality cell shaded asthetic which is supposed to run really well.

[twin dew]

100Wh.

And anything above 2.7Wh needs to be in carry-on, not baggage hold luggage.

[verbal raft]

I've heard that.enabling HW lumen actually makes BL4 run better
Will have to.test that once i get my hand on the game

[twin dew]

Of course it does?
If the support was coded, but the toggle is missing.
Because it is using SW Lumen by default, so offloading some of the work from shader units to RT HW will always help?

[verbal raft]

Well
Enabling it in MGS D cost me 13% performance (on RDNA 4 the 5090 looses 9% from.that)
And in SH2R i also saw that it lowered performance on a 4090 by quite a bit

[twin dew]

Ok, I'm corrected.

[thin trout]

I will say though, SW lumen in BL4 looks less bad than in Satisfactory.

In Satisfactory i have a very simple test case: There's a floor of 4m foundations extending in every direction. There's a 16m height gap, then another floor of 4m foundations.

Even with your config @verbal raft, there are rings of lighting at certain distances from the camera where the light goes straight through the 4 meter thick foundations when "traced" at certain angles. Without the config, it's much worse. There's also horrible noise.

In Satisfactory with SW lumen i've even seen light go straight through an 8x8x8 meter foundation. That's just horrifically bad to the point of being inviable to use

[verbal raft]

UE 5.5 has a much better denoiser than 5.3 (SF's version)
i also have to weak my tweaks more, havent touched lumen since v0.3

taj's is less noisy, boily with lumen ive noticed

[languid gulch]

one of my MMOs is so poorly optimized that it can drop to the mid-50s on my 4090 even tho it's almost 20 years old

[thin trout]

That's probably your CPU/RAM, not your 4090. Which MMO?

[languid gulch]

it's definitely not

Dungeons & Dragons Online

famously busted

[thin trout]

you're getting over 90% GPU load and full GPU clocks while at below 50fps?

Because that would mean that somebody with like a 3060 would get 10fps, and people with 15yr old hardware would get below 1fps.

[languid gulch]

i'm on a 9800X3D & 64gb 6000MHz DDR5, DDO is famously, notoriously garbagely optimized

[thin trout]

That's still much more likely to limit than your 4090 is.

you're getting over 90% GPU load and full GPU clocks while at below 50fps?

If this is not true, you're not GPU limited. Needs validation.

[languid gulch]

no, it's just generally dogshit. my $400 laptop gets about the same fps

[thin trout]

That makes it even more likely that it's not GPU limited, as there's a bigger delta in GPU performance between those systems than there is in CPU performance.

[languid gulch]

in "good" areas it's fine, but there's a lot of areas that are known to be shit & everyone's fps tanks

[thin trout]

Yeah, that is almost always cpu related

but you can trivially prove/disprove it by checking that info that i said

[languid gulch]

i've played it for 15+ years, and it's always had the same issues no matter my system. it ain't my brand new 9800X3D

this year they finally migrated off of 32 bit

and that involved moving off of 2010 hardware on their end

[thin trout]

If you are so confident that i'm wrong, prove it. I told you how. Otherwise i don't see much point in discussing.

[languid gulch]

check out the forums there and see all the bitching there about lag

[thin trout]

which is probably cpu/RAM driven like every other MMO, rather than GPU core load

[languid gulch]

on literally everyone's systems?

for the last 20 years?

[twin dew]

Or just networking related.

[thin trout]

Yes, almost everything that i play is CPU limited on a 9950x3d w/ 8200mt/s RAM. That's mostly MMO, RTS, 4x and sim/factory games.

Satisfactory is an outlier in that it actually applies stress to a 5090, but still manages over 200fps at max settings while the CPU cannot handle that on a large base.

[twin dew]

But you complain it would be GPU related.

[languid gulch]

so you're telling me that my 9800X3D, which has the same occasional FPS tankings in areas in a game that everyone, over 2 decades has, on a game with an engine from PS2 days, that the 9800X3D and 4090 is just not powerful enough?

[thin trout]

No, i'm telling you that the 4090 is probably not the cause of the performance limit (the slowest part).

[languid gulch]

oh it's not, it's serverside

[pure karma]

Honestly sounds like its a game engine limitation and not hardware at all

[languid gulch]

in some of its areas i can hit 2000fps

[thin trout]

"game engine limitation" is not a thing that really exists outside of the developers literally putting in sleeps so that 2 frames must be more than X milliseconds apart. They do that sometimes on awfully programmed games which use frame times as a clock.

[verbal raft]

imgsli.com/NDE0ODEz/3/1
looks better tho

[twin dew]

Waiting for data from the servers counts for that IMHO.

[thin trout]

Same for WoW, some areas it's 2000fps on CPU and others it's 40. In either case 4090/5090 laughs at it and doesn't limit perf.

[thin trout]

It is exceedingly rare for a game to wait for data from a server to render a frame though. Not the case here AFAIK.

[languid gulch]

DDO's basically comatose rn because of the migration to 64 bit, whatever the issues it had before are hyperamplified now

crippling lag, freezing, rubberbanding. bad enough that gaming publications have been doing stories on it

[thin trout]

that is networking yeah, not framerate

[pure karma]

iv ran into a lot of limitations on the shear volume of ram being moved in and out on Satis and a few other games aswell in various ways that trace back to the engine or a weak point thats unusual

[languid gulch]

they also moved from new jersey to las vegas

[thin trout]

CPU/RAM being a performance limiter is not really unusual, especially in these genres

[languid gulch]

i think they still might be on Phenom IIs

[thin trout]

If you look at x3d existing for example, the entire benefit is in reducing RAM bottlenecking, and it widely has huge benefit because RAM bottlenecking is a widespread issue in games - poor RAM perf translates to poor CPU perf as the CPU waits for data.

It's just particularly limiting in Satis.

[languid gulch]

i've always suspected that the DDO server hardware is being simultaneously used for crypto 🤣

[verbal raft]

he has better lumen
i've got better shadows (i dont think taj has touched VSM's in a very long time)

[thin trout]

I'l check it out, got a link?

[verbal raft]

asking me or cuyar ?

[thin trout]

you

[languid gulch]

yea was gonna say

not about to recommend you check out an ancient laggy mess of a game 🤣

[thin trout]

WoW drives me up the wall because they can do so much better but they just don't because it's faster/cheaper.

[languid gulch]

not joking about it being from PS2 days either, game came out in 2006 on the original Havok engine

[verbal raft]

my newest version: https://github.com/Lightning999933/Satisfactory-Graphical-tweaks/releases/tag/v0.5.4
taj's https://ficsit.app/mod/TajsGraph

[thin trout]

They can literally do the same things but with 5x the performance level, as proven by them DOING THOSE THINGS ON THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE AND CURRENT HARDWARE

[languid gulch]

same with ddo

[thin trout]

but they have this stupid content treadmill where they just go in and they put something and make it function (or close to function) and then move on with no regard to even measure the performance impact

Like: older game raid has a dragon that breathes fire on you, makes game drop to 300fps

newer one has a fancier fire graphic, makes game drop to 30fps, they are like "this is fine". You can't use the old one. You can't turn it off. You just have to play at 30fps on zen5 x3d or not play, because those employees are working on the raid after next and don't care.

I've often played with people who are dipping sub-10-fps because they're not running the newest OC'd hardware.

[languid gulch]

tho there's a fair amount of background to ddo that makes me think it's a spite product designed to stop WotC from developing a newer D&D MMO

in which case keeping it just dogshit enough to barely pull a profit is something that works out just fine, send the minimum in royalties to Wizards

[verbal raft]

its fine ouside but then inside it gets pretty bad at times
(this is also on my medium lumen preset which is more expensive than vanilla)

[thin trout]

Yeah - walls, even thick ones, fail to block rays when they're supposed to. Worse, sometimes they correctly block them and sometimes (often) they don't, so there's a contrast. It's a resolution issue with the light rays, they step so far that they go straight through the wall.

[languid gulch]

lol

nuclear furnace shielded with tissue paper

[thin trout]

when an 8m wall shields like tissue paper you have a technical problem 😄

It's already a huge sacrifice to build 4-8 meter thick walls everywhere instead of e.g. using the walls ingame, which are like 0.25 meters, but that doesn't fix it completely so i gave up. Can't go thicker.

[languid gulch]

not bad for alpha

but that's about it

[verbal raft]

im also pretty annoyed by the fact that contact shadows get applied to things they shouldnt be

(2nd is CS disabled)

[languid gulch]

weird

just a ghost hanging out on the power pole

[verbal raft]

cant turn it off since if i do certain things dont cast shadows untill you are super close to them

and well grass

[visual tree]

@languid gulch Better wear a t-shirt with stop sign when walking through the city https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1lwydi9/tesla_moves_to_expand_robotaxi_to_phoenix/

[languid gulch]

oh joy

the waymo ones are already wild

[verbal raft]

and you cant weak them
at all

[twin dew]

But the Waymo ones actually seem to be safe.

[languid gulch]

most of the time

i saw one block a fire truck

[twin dew]

Main problem has been human drivers rearending them when they brake.

[twin dew]

Nowhere near perfect, but closing in from the oversafe direction for most part.

[languid gulch]

i saw 3 of their vans all lined up, and all changing lanes at the same time, basically pushing traffic out of the way

[visual tree]

We were supposed to get robotaxi here in 2026 but there is a huge delay with the robotaxi project

[languid gulch]

they also get confused at intersections where there's not just the white "stop here" lines, but also one of those shallow rainwater gutters. one waymo Jaguar was halfway into a lane, stopped at a light

[verbal raft]

though at least this doent happen on taj's

[languid gulch]

but that's the most fun shadow in the game

[thin trout]

this is vanilla 😄

[languid gulch]

i like when you hop into a tube with the boombox and look around and the boombox becomes GINORMOUS

[twin dew]

Because your own first person model doesn't have torso or head, only limbs.

[verbal raft]

also find this funny
FSR 3.1 handles this one thing better than FSR 4
(first is 3.1)

[languid gulch]

we'll just have to see if the robotaxis are worse than normal tesla drivers, cuz around here they're awful

people make fun of the Prius everywhere else, here it's Teslas that are the nightmare

and then there's me in an EV that nobody seems to notice is an EV, which i'm completely fine with 🤣

[verbal raft]

gets worse once you start moving
(2nd is 3.1)

[verbal raft]

vanilla shouldnt be casting character shadows like that

[thin trout]

it does on low shadows (which performs massively better)

[verbal raft]

oh

[visual tree]

Hope our robotaxi won't be as bad as a Tesla lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dinYBGoQ0HA&t=81s

[twin dew]

On Low shadows, the player doesn't have shadow at all, that is just the equipment then.
On Medium, the "character" shadow is just a blob.

[thin trout]

Oh yeah, i don't have a shadow, just my clothes/boots/hat/gloves/weapon

that's definitely my hand 😄

[verbal raft]

vanilla looks like this

at ultra
medium is the same

[thin trout]

I must have some setting accidentally left on then.

[verbal raft]

and low has zero shadows

is this normal ?

[languid gulch]

the main problem is integration. we're in the "model T" section of EVs & autonomous driving right now, where we're going to have to have some kind of major infrastructure changes for widespread adoption. we don't have horses on highways for a reason

[verbal raft]

thats at ultra BTW

[languid gulch]

i can see something like that Verne doing well, so long as it has its own roads

[visual tree]

Probably not. We can't even do dedicated tracks for public transport or cyclists properly 🤣

[languid gulch]

exactly

[visual tree]

Buses have yellow tracks in some streets which are made for them only (+ taxi drivers) but cars still use them even though you can get fined for that

[languid gulch]

one super dumb thing that i wish cars would adopt is sliding front doors

it'd shrink the parking spot footprint so much

[visual tree]

Useful if you want to exit a tight parking space

[languid gulch]

literally everywhere 🤣

i was seriously looking at a Mazda5 at one point just because it's smaller than a van, and closer to a hatchback with sliding rear doors

i do worry about mirrors running into each other with that kind of sliding

and doing a vertical gullwing style door is just asking for a decapitation

[visual tree]

I am considering selling my car and simply using train while doing some walking. Literally drive my car to train each day and I travel only around 3.5 km

At this point, buying a new car is a terrible idea since I don't travel much with car

[visual tree]

Better start with Houston

Almost every block has a parking lot which is too big imo

[languid gulch]

eh, phoenix metro has a lot of those areas too

with the occasional dumbass golf course

[visual tree]

And people here are mad at a capital city mayor because he wants to remove cars from the city center and turn every road into a pedestrian walkway lol

Also building new tram lanes

[languid gulch]

see, i can see autonomous EVs doing ok in an area like that, just have dropoff zones a block away from the main pedestrian strip

[visual tree]

Wish our city was like Amsterdam where you can reach most places you need with a bicycle

[languid gulch]

same, but tires melt here

we really should have just built phoenix underground from the start

[twin dew]

Phoenix shouldn't have been populated in the first place.

[languid gulch]

lol

i mean, it existed way before we were here

we have archeological sites

the canals have been here 1000 years, we just paved them with concrete

[twin dew]

Yeah, with lot less people and lot of irrigation canals.
And then went away as the place got worse.

Yes, the desert there is fertile with water.
But thats it, it is still desert.

[languid gulch]

we definitely need to do way better with water here

we're doing better than we were 20 years ago

our reclamation is doing good

and we imposed low flow toilets & showerheads

[visual tree]

Our water pipelines here are so bad there is a 50% of water loss from the pump station to the customers (houses, buildings, etc...)

[languid gulch]

jesus

ok we're doing spectacular compared to that

[visual tree]

Utility companies don't care because there is an abundance of drinking water compared to other european countries and they don't want to invest much. Still, it hurts me a lot when so much water is wasted

[languid gulch]

lol yup

don't know how good you have it

[visual tree]

You can at least drink water from the faucet and don't have to buy bottled water

[languid gulch]

some spots do

but yea, mostly just a filter

[visual tree]

I remember my parents buying Brita water filter 15 years ago. The taste is so terrible lol

I can remember that artificial chemical taste

[languid gulch]

our monsoon this year is officially at 1.5cm

normal is 5.6

[visual tree]

Winter here is getting warmer each year. Don't want to know how it will look like in 10 years

When I was like 10 years old, the snow was so deep it would reach my knees. Today, it's only a memory of something that will never happen again

[languid gulch]

last winter i never felt the need to wear full length pants

[visual tree]

There was barely any snow this winter

[languid gulch]

shorts outside in january

[visual tree]

Perfect if you have solar panels

[languid gulch]

oh definitely

[visual tree]

Basically generating enough electricity through the whole year

[languid gulch]

but i remember it getting cold more than a few days in winter

idk if it even got below freezing once last year

it's almost october and it's supposed to be 42C next week

[visual tree]

Good thing temperatures here drop bellow -10 degrees celsius only for a few days since AC heating doesn't work well when the temperature is bellow -10 degrees

I could buy a heating inverter AC but then you have an opposite problem. They don't cool well enough when the temperature is above 30 degrees

So, I bought a standard inverter AC

[languid gulch]

yea, i wanna look at some of those deep drilled geologic heat pumps

[visual tree]

I wanted to install heat pump but the problem is that I would need to run new pipes and remove new house flooring which was recently installed few years ago. That would cost me a LOT

[languid gulch]

oh yea heat pumps need a ton of area to work decently

[visual tree]

I paid for main electrotechnical design recently regarding solar panels and hope I will get a permit from the utility company by the end of this year so I can install panels next year

[languid gulch]

can you stuff in a battery for storage/backup?

[visual tree]

Not worth it atm since you can use the grid as a battery for the next 10 years. After 10 years, utility company won't let you use their grid as a battery and then batteries will be worth it

[languid gulch]

nice

is it worth doing the "everything but the battery itself" kind of setup?

[visual tree]

Enough time to get a return on investment (not to mention goverment grants which will reduce investment return period from 6-7 to 3-4 years)

[visual tree]

Depends on the customer and their habits. If you don't use much electricity and your roof orientation is terrible, solar panels might not be worth it

[languid gulch]

oh i more meant like doing the panels, but then prepping the mount and junction boxes etc for a battery, but then just having a bypass there until you're ready to install the battery

[visual tree]

I have west/east roof orientation and need to install solar optimizers:

[visual tree]

If you have a hybrid inverter, you can simply add a battery later any time you want

It's literally just installing a battery and plugging it into an inverter

Don't have to run extra wires afaik

[languid gulch]

i forgot you'd have to have the inverter anyway 🤣

[visual tree]

Here is a simulation for my setup btw (for a 6,37 kw system):

[languid gulch]

i wonder what my house's would look like

[visual tree]

You can use SolarEdge designer to get some general idea

I think engineers I paid used this tool to make simulations/projections and other specs

[languid gulch]

ah

blech, account needed

i know i'd have to get a new roof, panels would be too heavy along with my current roof tiles

[visual tree]

I think I used a temp email in order to test the tool and used fake information when registering an account

Just to test it

[languid gulch]

also i'd want to do it right, which might involve kinda gutting the plumbing

i'd want to do those under-sink electric water heaters

also i have 2 A/C units 🤣

[visual tree]

I had a low-pressure boiler under the sink before running a new pipe for hot water through the garden and towards the kitchen. Now, everything is connected to the central heating

Basically, something like this:

[languid gulch]

oh that's just weird 🤣

idk if that'd even be allowed here

[visual tree]

It was a nightmare since you had to replace boiler every 5 years with a new one. That's why we decided to run a separate pipe for hot water and connect it to central heating (house boiler in the bathroom)

[languid gulch]

yea we don't have boilers here at all 🤣

doesn't get remotely cold enough for it

and we don't have high rises to run steam up

[visual tree]

Not sure if I would trade my city temperature with phoenix 😅

[languid gulch]

a lot of stuff isn't properly heat tested for here

[visual tree]

No cold winters but then you almost pass out during summer lol

[languid gulch]

oh we just don't go outside unless we have to

i'd prefer the cold tbh

[visual tree]

People avoid electric boiler for heating and water if possible since they use a lot of electricity and you won't like your bills. Our house is connected to a natural gas pipeline

[languid gulch]

yea, phoenix carbon footprint is lower than Boston's just because of the heating bill difference

[visual tree]

oof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNuu2cxM5OM

"The attack targeted Collins Aerospace, a service provider for multiple airlines globally, leading to technical issues. "

And I thought airports used multiple services as a backup in case of cyberattack 🤣

[languid gulch]

all it takes is someone knowing about a maintenance day when they're down to 1 system for a bit to do something like this

[visual tree]

Meanwhile, I keep my KeePass database at 4 different locations as a backup if something goes wrong (computer, NAS, USB, Google Drive)

Just saw 4 planes passing by (they look like cessna or something). Guess it's related to cyberattack and they can't land or something

[languid gulch]

i can only assume it's russia given the airspace violations the last couple days

the cyberattack i mean

[visual tree]

Oh, thought you were joking and said the cessna pilots were russians lol

Quite possible they are behind the cyberattack though

[verbal raft]

though the games i used as examples have older UE versions than BL4
BL4 has UE 5.5, SH2R is 5.2(or 5.1 i dont remember) and MGS:D has 5.3
and ive heard that in 5.5 HW lumen is a lot more optimized

and i think its further optimiyed in 5.6

[mental oriole]

Sending this to linkedin because of their new opt out AI bs

[verbal raft]

might as well be AI generated lol

[verbal raft]

@thin trout cooking up a pretty extensive update
probably the biggest since i added VSM's

[cyan crescent]

Is 274.72wh of battery banks too much?

[night girder]

There is. Or so I heard.

You can even send request to delete all data.

I am still waiting for confirmation, I send request yesterday.

and check "Settings > Data Privacy" for AI bullshit.

direct link: www.linkedin.com/mypreferences/d/settings/data-for-ai-improvement

[mental oriole]

I opted out already

[narrow zenith]

so i got my hands on an interesting CPU

it doesnt exist, there isnt a single mention of it anywhere online

[karmic socket]

Pentium D

[narrow zenith]

Pentium Extreme Edition 980

[twin dew]

Seems Intel couldn't make enough dies that could do that 4GHz, as the released ones top out at 3.73 GHz.

[narrow zenith]

possibly yeah

had a couple theories that this engineering sample was loaned to an employee at some point, and never given back

[vapid heron]

its common for engineering samples to be sent out as early review samples

[narrow zenith]

the only text on the cpu itself is written in sharpie, just the name and clock speed

[karmic socket]

can it play crysis ?

[safe trench]

50/50

[cyan crescent]

What software can i use to control the fans on my 7900xtx?

[karmic socket]

if the brand is sapphire, they might have an official software on their website

otherwise, AMD's Adrenaline software should do the trick

[cyan crescent]

its a powercolor hellhound 7900xtx. the fans keep ramping up and down

[karmic socket]

in Adrenaline, go to Performance main tab, then Tuning sub tab

then hit custom on the right side

[languid gulch]

sounds like you're right on the edge of a power curve or temp limit 🤣

[narrow zenith]

validated the weird CPU on CPU-Z

[narrow zenith]

also took it out and took some pics of it

[soft bloom]

anyone knows why steam gets blurry sometimes?
it's font is clearly smudgy

[signal spruce]

https://youtu.be/zLyV4809N8I?list=RDzLyV4809N8I

[jagged snow]

Issues with display scaling usually

Lots of applications don't handle it well when displaying text

But if you have it set to 100% thats not the cause

[soft bloom]

in windows display settings and not the app?
it's not 100%
weird thing is that it's somethings alright, sometimes not

during same windows and steam session

[mental oriole]

With windows scaling not at 100% it's gonna get blurry.

[soft bloom]

it's playing games with me
1/3 of the time it will be blurry
discord doesn't have that problem

[mental oriole]

idk what then

[cyan crescent]

Are there any good nas options out there that aren’t synology? I want to build a nas for me and my family. We dont all live under the same roof.

[glossy glacier]

There are many options. Depends on how you want to use it and how much you want to DIY

[cyan crescent]

Im completely new to nas stuff. As for what im doing, storing files on it and streaming tv and movies from it.

[glossy glacier]

Lots of pre-packaged options from QNAP, Ugreen, Minisforum, Unifi, WD, etc.
DIY with UnRAID, TrueNAS, etc. is also an option if you want to invest the Time.
If not everybody is in your Home you need to set up some kind of remote-access. Either some kind of web-server or via VPN.
If you want to stream video a CPU with an iGPU/an add-in dGPU is recommended too

Can't say much about the software side of the different options, i am currently stuck using a Synology myself

[dire igloo]

For TV/media streaming, Jellyfin.
For NAS stuff, idk

And if you want to en-/decode on the machine, a simple Arc A310 is a nice pick for its Quicksync media engine

[jagged snow]

I've had that experience too
And was unable to resolve it without setting it back to 100%

[night girder]

Trying out proton free VPN. So far so good.

[dire igloo]

Quite limited but iirc the least bad free option.
Windscribe also decent but you have a data maximum on the free plan

[night girder]

Somewhere in the back of my mind I think; "nothing is free" but it's good enough to run script that makes API calls.

not sure if it hold up with heavier tasks, like YT or Netflix.

Also have to figure out how the VPN decides what server to give me. Because so for I had Netherlands and US. Which are FAR apart.

[jagged snow]

IMO tailscale is the best free true vpn

They just don't provide exit nodes for you

[night girder]

?

Not sure if proton use exit nodes, but it has secure core.

What does Secure Core protect against?

Proton VPN’s unique Secure Core architecture allows us to protect our users from network attacks that other VPNs cannot defend against. A classic VPN setup involves a client passing traffic through a VPN server en-route to the final destination. If an attacker can get control of the VPN server, or monitor the network of the server, they will be able to match VPN clients with their traffic, nullifying the privacy benefits of the VPN.

[night girder]

Oops. Missed the "don't" 🤣

Besides proton being free, the other motivation or why I am using it, I already had proton account.
So nothing extra to set up for me.

[dire igloo]

I hate when people bring that up for things like Freemium, Donationware or Trials/Demos.
Those things aren't free.
They just use the non-free options to provide with you with a free option.

[dire igloo]

True that. Tho I wouldn't call them a VPN service.
They provide you with the tools to build a VPN service yourself, but you gotta provide the infrastructure

It's kinda like saying Jellyfin is a streaming service - it's not, it's a software you use to turn your media library into a streaming service

[night girder]

I was more referring to the chance of data collection being sold by using "free" product. 😉

[vapid heron]

if something is free, your data is the payment

Windows 10 and 11 was free if you owned a prior version. now look at the AI tools 11 offers and is using

[dire igloo]

Which is something that also happens on paid services (Adobe, Microsoft, hell I'd even include Amazon)
Overall, the wisdom of "if the product is free, you're the product" should be moreso applied to "if you don't know how they're making money, they're probably making it off your privacy"

[night girder]

Honestly, maybe I am too paranoid, but I don't trust any tech company at this point.

Proton is EU based. But still. Same for DuckDuckGo. Are they better when it comes to privacy? Probably. Are they saints when it comes to privacy? Highly doubt it.
Regardless of free or not. They all want to hoard data and earn money.

[dire igloo]

If you owned a previous version, that's a license upgrade.
It's a very common thing for software companies to offer for free, primarily to avoid legal issues and investments in backwards compatibility.

If your customers can upgrade for free, you can easily EOL old versions

[dire igloo]

Proton being EU based can also mean they have to offer up your user data to national law enforcement.

[night girder]

Yeah I know. Pick your poison 😊

[dire igloo]

Generally speaking tho, there is no privacy online.
The only way to protect your personal information is to not be online - and even that doesn't work because the people around you and your government can still publish data about you, even if they don't intend to

[night girder]

And a lot of innitiatives start all well. But that means nothing for the future. At the early start, Google wasn't this aggressive with data hoarding and ads.
Once Google was in a position (market leader for search engine) they started to dominate and push boundries. More or less.

And I say this because I was just reading Proton website. What they promise.

[dire igloo]

It's capitalism.
What you said made me remember the summary of enshittification:
First they cater to their customers.
Then they cater to investors and alienate their customers.
Then they cater to themselves and alienate their investors.
Then they die.

[night girder]

And they sure know what people are looking for. So they hit the buzz words. But what once Proton is dominant. Who knows what the philosophy is than. Or if the managers/top changes. Or they get pressure by a goverment. Or pressure from investors. 🤷‍♂️

[dire igloo]

Once you have costs of operation, you have to have an income to compensate.

The four kinds of income:

• paid service
• semi-paid service (freemium, trials/demos, etc)
• user data
• donations (financially or time/work/infrastructure)

[night girder]

Choosing between bad and worse.

[dire igloo]

Depends. The only actually bad form of financing is user data.
The other three are perfectly fine ethically imo.
But you have to be a good business person to keep your operation afloat with those three because obviously they're the worst paying

[night girder]

This is from consumer perspective when choosing.

Nothing is good 🙂 Like you said yourself.

[dire igloo]

Problems with each financing option:

1. Too expensive and you lose customers. Too cheap and you don't generate enough revenue.
2. Same as 1. Offer too much for free and not enough people will pay. Offer too little or charge too much and people will use other products.
3. Evil cuz privacy
4. Unreliable, so either you can't offer as in-depth of a service or you're at the mercy of donations continuing to come in

[night girder]

If you pay for a product, they still hoard your data. If you use free tools, they hoard your data. If you use Google. It's US. If you use TikTok it's Asia etc. There is always someome making "but did you know..." argument that makes it bad.

[shrewd sentinel]

WSDE

[night girder]

even wikipedia isn't innocent with their constant "we are poor, donate us" messages.

[dire igloo]

Numbers 2 and 4 are the best from a consumer perspective.

Number 4 also include hobbyist code projects and freetime-maintained FOSS.

[night girder]

and wikipedia is nothing without eveyrone who contributed.

[shrewd sentinel]

ZUHJGT

[night girder]

Just saying; I can find drawbacks in anything. Even in open source software 😉 That's why I said, bad vs worse.

[dire igloo]

I can see why you're making that point, but you're missing mine.
I'm talking theoretically, how businesses can finance their operations.

Your criticism of 1 and 2 doesn't really apply because it says "what if they also collect user data" which is missing the point.

Google's business model is selling user data (well, it's selling data-driven services, they don't actually hand out the data).
Same for TikTok.

Their business model isn't the tool you use as the consumer.
That's the front they use to fuel the product they're selling

[night girder]

That's false.

Google has many paid products 😉 And they still make money on ads. And user data.

Google, just makes money, on whatever they can. Squeezing the lemom.

[dire igloo]

Because Wikipedia has two types of cost for operation:
Content maintenance and server upkeep.

Content maintenance works by having the general public donate their time and work to add/update information.
Server upkeep works by asking the general public for financial donations.
It's just donationware - albeit an obnoxious one (for the financial aspect)

[night girder]

So you agree with how wikipedia handles their constant campeigns for money?

[dire igloo]

It doesn't mean that what I said is false.
It means that they don't exclusively fund their operation through paid services.
It means they use a combination of paid services, donations and user data.