off-topic-tech

[languid gulch]

put some gigantic fog lamps on it 🤣

[night girder]

And I have to fix the car up else i cannot make it road legal.

[pure karma]

Would nerver daily it but id love a car like this for track use or something

[night girder]

GOT IT 🤣

[languid gulch]

is that supposed to be 250 or 250k

[night girder]

250

[languid gulch]

OH

[pure karma]

Its a model

[night girder]

1:12

[languid gulch]

yea just saw the scale

[night girder]

haha, scammers! 🤣

wouldn't pay 250 for a toy car. Does look cool.

[languid gulch]

i ran into Bumblebee a few weeks ago

[night girder]

damn. too bad we have to take corners here.

[languid gulch]

sadly

it's not the corners that are the problem, it's that there's stuff on the corners

www.conceptcarz.com/s22227/cadillac-fleetwood-seventy-five.aspx

2600kg, 6.4m long, 8.2L V8

104L gas tank

[night girder]

you must be really old

[languid gulch]

nah

like i said, stuff doesn't rust here

and Department of Transportation just grandfathered in all the old shit & kept it on the road

my old pickup was perfectly legal even tho the gas tank sat in the cab, right behind the bench seat

seat's out, but that's the tank on the left

[night girder]

cool!

[languid gulch]

scary as fuck

GM's "safety" was putting a cardboard cover over it

just to make sure you'd burn faster if it started leaking

[night girder]

just don't let it catch fire 🤷‍♂️

[languid gulch]

🤣

one of my friends has the 1972 version of my truck, and he yanked that out out and put in saddle tanks & a 3rd behind the differential

[night girder]

I am not sure, but you seem to have more lose rules in modifying cars. They all street legal?

[languid gulch]

yup

what counts as a street legal car here is what year the chassis is, and what the laws were at the time

[verbal raft]

bruh

[languid gulch]

my "street legal" 1966 chevy pickup just needed seat belts (first year for that), a right side mirror, bumpers, headlights, and brake lights. rest is optional

[night girder]

Mhm, we do have some special rules for old timer cars. Not sure maybe they could get away with stuff like that.

[languid gulch]

doesn't even need doors, bed, or a hood 🤣

[night girder]

or airbags.

[languid gulch]

oh hell no

it had the "impale me" steering column

[night girder]

a car that wants you dead. Nice.

[languid gulch]

🤣 got rid of it for a reason

was great for what i used it for

had the "granny gear" 1st, 7.68:1, and a 4.78 rear

[night girder]

I don't see what good use a car is that wants to actively kill you. Fuel tank in the back with carton box over it?

[languid gulch]

was good for pulling stuff out of the ground

[night girder]

I see

[languid gulch]

basically a farm truck, not a commuter

[night girder]

yeah, worktool.

[languid gulch]

street legal tractor more than a car with a bed like they make today

mine was never this pretty, but this is what it was, same color too

so old those white things are actual hub caps & not wheel covers

[night girder]

hehe, that flag in the background

[languid gulch]

oh of course

[night girder]

nice colors that one

[languid gulch]

looks like it's in a museum from the Model T in the background

tearing it apart was like dismantling an aircraft carrier

each door was probably 100kg

[night girder]

sounds a bit excesive

[languid gulch]

the old steel stamping

pretty sure it'd count as mildly bulletproof these days

[night girder]

depends I guess

just stupid to make a heavy car imo

[languid gulch]

oh definitely

but

1960s 🤣

[night girder]

did it ever get stuck in the mud?

[languid gulch]

not here, we don't really have mud

sand yes

probably got stuck in the mud where it came from tho, was grandpa's farm truck

[night girder]

it's like a tank getting stuck

[languid gulch]

would throw 3-4 full sized cows in the bed

[night girder]

That seems like a funny sight

[languid gulch]

there's a reason i still have an army shovel in my cars

[night girder]

shovel is smart. Army shovel. Not so sure 🤣

[languid gulch]

3 fold one

[night girder]

but I think I know what you mean.

Yeah, the type. The army has some crap.

[languid gulch]

doesn't take up much space

not amazing, but better than no shovel

[night girder]

yeah for sure

Should also do that actually 😛

[languid gulch]

could you imagine throwing an american style emergency kit in the back of that M3 🤣

[night girder]

I would 100% do it 🤣

[languid gulch]

half medkit, half invasion supplies

[night girder]

you never know when i might have to dig a foxhole 🤣

[languid gulch]

now i wanna see an M3 with one of those roof mounted storage boxes

painfully american

too much shit? that's ok, just pile it into a shitbox on top of your car full of shit!

[night girder]

Yeah exactly that one haha

spend all that money on a m3 and then fuck it up 🤣

[languid gulch]

well we're not original at all

fucking hell that's offensive

M3 G80

[night girder]

As a sidenote on the prepping, I recently got me this backpack 🤣

[languid gulch]

apparently BMW makes the cargo boxes

[mental oriole]

Car go road.

[languid gulch]

here we can buy backpacks with not just a ballistic plate, but a quick flip front plate too

[night girder]

No no, car needs to look good and then go road.

[night girder]

Yeah yeah ... I know 🇺🇸

[mental oriole]

cargo pun

[night girder]

here we don't have guns. So no need for plates 🤣

[night girder]

Still I like the modular aspect and molle principle.

[languid gulch]

definitely

[night girder]

and I can add patches 😄

next I want to add a pouch for my leatherman.

Just have to remember to take it off when going to festivals.

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbGoesUi48A

if it wasn't $400 i'd have gone for it

[night girder]

i am happy with what I have atm

[languid gulch]

oh same 🤣

swiss army knife is like 80% of my tool usage

outside of "big tools"

[night girder]

so much talk about bits

[languid gulch]

it's such an innocent sounding word

[charred relic]

I'll stick with the real body armor

Also why on earth would you ever walk around with that pack on and the front armor not on... if nothing else it'll counterbalance the damn thing

[night girder]

Euh, sure 😛

[languid gulch]

why are you choosing to apply logic to this

[night girder]

also, if you pull it out, is your back still protected?

[languid gulch]

yes

plate inside the main backpack

[night girder]

So it's double weight at the back

and then the weight of the backpack itself + load

[languid gulch]

cuz who needs knees or a lower back

[charred relic]

Yeah but like they way that thing just drapes down isn't really practical heh

I guess you CAN tight it down... just what I wanna be doing when the shooting starts

tying down body armor

[languid gulch]

yea, it's definitely a "take cover, gear up" thing

[night girder]

I don't think it's real is it.

[charred relic]

I hope not heh

[languid gulch]

oh no it's real

[night girder]

seems more like a joke 🤣

[charred relic]

But it probably is

[languid gulch]

$900

[night girder]

omg... but that gif seems so bad ngl

[charred relic]

Plus no side protection options there

[languid gulch]

bulletproofbodyguard.com/

[charred relic]

So good lock if they arne't like... right in front of ya

[languid gulch]

yea but also better than nothing

[charred relic]

But that kinda money though... just get real armor heh

[languid gulch]

but yes, from a non-american viewpoint i can 100% see it as a joke

[charred relic]

even the soft shit is better than... that

[night girder]

cheers, I mean no disrespect.

[charred relic]

Most people don't really need plates but... hey if you want the weight and stiffness

[night girder]

But the acting and all. Something seemed off 😛

the first dude seems to even be laughing a bit.

[languid gulch]

oh it's not a problem 🤣 everyone seems to have a special brand of batshit crazy

[charred relic]

I'm just not sure what the idea is... oh look i'm out backpacking with back armor and optional front armor

[night girder]

marines gonna love this shit

[languid gulch]

oh marines have the good stuff

[charred relic]

yeah

[night girder]

more weight to go up and down the mountain

that it connected to your freaking backpack.

[languid gulch]

that's called character building

[night girder]

so you can't take it off or rebalance. Unles you put it to the front.

[charred relic]

Maybe targeted for kids on campus at schools I dunno

[languid gulch]

yea, definitely looks more urban designed

[night girder]

Oh yeah, I noticed that too.

[charred relic]

Well nobody in the country here would do anyhting but laugh at that thing lol

[night girder]

More for cops or something.

[charred relic]

like me

that would def be a "city thing" we'd mock

[languid gulch]

my high school was built as a nuclear bomb shelter 🤣

lower level is underground and reinforced

[charred relic]

I went to pick up my friends kid from school and I felt like I was going into a prison to visit an inmate

[night girder]

I mean, kinda crazy you had to have that you know?

[languid gulch]

Cold War standards

[charred relic]

had to get buzzed in, through the metal detector with a cop standing there

[night girder]

Yeah, still ...

Doesn't make it normal.

[charred relic]

I was like ffs did I accidentally go to the jail...

[languid gulch]

oh yea i left scholl before the shooting stuff got really bad

[night girder]

I guess normal is relative to where you live.

[languid gulch]

now my old school really looks like a prison

[charred relic]

so many kids in that office in trouble

[night girder]

now you got metal detectors at school entrances

[charred relic]

for getting all pissed off about having their phone taken lol

[languid gulch]

when i was at that school our mobile phones had pull-out antennas 🤣

[pure karma]

my school looks like a prison but i can literally just walk in and not even bother checking in to confirm im there and no one will question a thing

[charred relic]

like it's the end of the universe or something they give them back at the end of the day... stay off the fucking thing

this is why we have people graduating that cna't fuckin read

or write

at least in no way that would be considered normal

[languid gulch]

closest incident we had was a bank robber who jumped a fence onto one of the school's fields and we had a lockdown

[charred relic]

They had a big problem in some states, but this was decades ago, with football programs int he south

they were passing kids they they didn't get booted off the team and ruin their football shit... then they get to collect and... can barely read

[languid gulch]

i feel like we need to start denying people the existence of the internet until they're 18 🤣

[night girder]

our schools are pretty laid back.

[charred relic]

to some degree the unis looked the other way as well becuase... well big money in college ball ya know

there are some areas here with some gang shit going on

this is why I always lave the house with a weapon heh

[languid gulch]

i definitely feel like i'm part of the last generation of "properly educated" people here because the internet & current phones weren't a thing

[charred relic]

I'm one of the ones that shoots back 🙂

[night girder]

Sorry, but that's what every generation says.

[languid gulch]

🤣 i know

[pure karma]

ehhh id say the same so no lol

[night girder]

With different words, but basically the same message. Our generation was better.

[charred relic]

Soon all us oldheads will have to do is start writing in English cursive and using clocks with hands.

they won't be able to read shit we say or tell what fucking time it is

[pure karma]

although im in like the last group that fits the age

[languid gulch]

oh i didn't say better, kids today are probably way better at navigating all the new stuff

[charred relic]

... oh and only rotary phones

good luck kids..

[night girder]

Right, fair

just every generation has something over another.

[languid gulch]

but writing complete sentences? think i've got that down

[charred relic]

There's been a tradeoff there

usual regardiding actually socializing with other humans

[pure karma]

yea il give you that i suppose

[charred relic]

you know... in person lol

[night girder]

You sure? You forgot a punctuation I believe. 😛

I mean, it's easy to let certain language rules slide 😛

[languid gulch]

although i'd probably be in the same boat as them if i had to deal with the pandemic during prime school years

[charred relic]

And sometimes they seem to have trouble telling the difference between what they get way with in the COD lobbdy and what flies in person

tell me sister go make a sandwich out of nowhere in person and imma backhand you so hard your mother feels it

[night girder]

How bad is it?

[charred relic]

Pandemic set a lot of kids here back big time as far as education

[night girder]

Here I think most can still write full sentences. They just lazy.

[languid gulch]

probably

[charred relic]

I got arrested in Atlanta once and the downtown jailll I dunno about literacy

[languid gulch]

but also they'd get nailed for AI or plagiarism if they did

[pure karma]

i lost all of middle school so not much since pie is like 90% of it

[charred relic]

I had a BUNCH of guys getting me to tell them what the offense on their ticket was

they could not read it...

[pure karma]

i got the good side but i can imagine loosing primary school would be a catastrophe

[charred relic]

And most were a subset of disorderly conduct involving consuming alcohol within X feet of a store that sells alcohol

[night girder]

the kids over here still had school.

it was just with a laptop and mostly tasks.

[charred relic]

No, you cannot legalls walk out of the store and pop open your beer and start drinking it... illegal

[night girder]

At home ofc.

But I can see it not being of the same quality as real school

and cause some sort of setback. Must be hard for them.

[charred relic]

It brought up some interesting scenarios like a teacher bithing about a kid with a gun rack on the wal and like a bbs gun on it

blah blah no guns at school

uhhh news flash that isn't school, that's a private home

this who educateds them... a moron

This was when basically everyone else was going back to normal anyhow and they were needlessly holding out on it. Don't like what people have in THEIR home? Get back into the classroom.

Pretty simple...

[pure karma]

online classes are.... interesting....

if i wasent as technologically competent as i am i think this probably wouldent be an acceptable level of upkeep

this guide on how to take a screenshot is from 2006 lmao

[safe trench]

genuis!!

[pure karma]

if i dident know better that the snipping tool is seperate now and not in this long gone mystery folder and had minimal technology experience i think id be having a bad day rn

although i have to say its cool seeing old windows again lol

its ofc not from 2006 but still weird seeing the windows clock says 2006 so clearly very misconfigured system lmao

[sharp oasis]

i mean?

[charred relic]

figured i might as well watch the game while i watch the game while i watch the game while i watch the game...guess i could put on my quest 3 and also watch the game....

[sterile plinth]

do yall use a usb dock to charge all your wireless stuff for your pc

I would need to have 3 2-meter long usbc cables running from my computer to my desk to charge everything at the same time

[charred relic]

I have a charge hub with a pretty hefty battey charge bank that sits on top to charge

I don't dock anything... my laptop can't do networking or video... or charging on usb-c so there isn't really much in the way of docking it

tablet i only ever attack to the keyboard/trackpad case

*attach, it just snaps on at the hinge with magnets (how do they work?!)

[sterile plinth]

im referring to a pc not laptop

[charred relic]

Out here I have have a variety of smaller chargers all suitable of charging anything I own that charges that way at max speed

oh... like a hub

[sterile plinth]

yeah, sort of

[charred relic]

I dunno I have a powered USB hub on my laptop here

[sterile plinth]

Can you imagine going to 3 different outlets to charge 3 different wireless things at the same time

inconvenient

[charred relic]

But that's mostly to attach periphs and I wanted to also ensure they were powered ports all with full power... so they can charge my crap too

[sterile plinth]

the more wireless stuff i buy the more i realize this

[sterile plinth]

yeah, that's what im looking for as well, to charge

[charred relic]

Well that's why I got that charge dock/station

[sterile plinth]

might get one of these then

[charred relic]

can plug in a bunch of crap in one spot heh

And like I said in my case it's the kind with the removable battery in case you need some portable charging...

And I often do heh

[sterile plinth]

have you found one with a detachable cable?

[charred relic]

Trying to remember of my base has hard wired or not lemme go look

[sterile plinth]

most of them have tiny cables

https://bbpcdn.pstatic.gr/P/bpimg45/daBvn/1UTxiG/image.webp

[charred relic]

ah yeah what i have out here basically

[sterile plinth]

found this tplink one, takes a micro-B up back

[charred relic]

but it has an attached power cable to give all ports full power for charging

well you can remove the power cable and just use it with what is supplied by that it's plugged into

depenends onw hat you're pluggin in

i picked mine up at walmart 😮

[sterile plinth]

this one takes both a micro-B from your pc and a DC as well

[charred relic]

charging is a pain int he ass in general heh

just due tot he number of devices

plus my watch has it's own wireless magnetic one lol

[sterile plinth]

yeah exactly

[charred relic]

so it's useful ONLY for that device

[sterile plinth]

wireless mouse wireless headphones, the phone, even my bicycle's light now needs usbc charging

[charred relic]

well for mice and xbox controller i use eneloop rechargable aa's when that's an option in the product

my main desktop is wired mouse, keyboad built in battery... out here i just use eneloops for my mouse and controller

i can swap those as fast as it takes me to walk across the house to grab fresh ones

remote controls too... i've saved a fortune in throw away AA's in just remotes

[sterile plinth]

huh, found a xiaomi 512gb usb drive for 20euro

do they normally go for that low

[charred relic]

for flash drives... i see them for about 30USD on amazon without really looking

[pure karma]

starting to do more cpu heavy tests and its already micro stutering so data is being delayed somewhere in the chain

[charred relic]

my brain is microstuttering

[pure karma]

gpu is also not displaying most of the rendered frames if present mon is acurate with that mesurement

so.... shared memory probably....

what im surprised by is despite this very consistent stutering every like 2-3 seconds the 1% lows are still perfect

what im anoyed by is that its so consistent (20 second measurement btw)

its the exact same interval between each stutter

so a 40-100 cpu/gpu usage split is stable no stuters but a 60/90 usage split stutters like hell

but its not the cpu or gpu causing it cause there both waiting at the time of the stuter on something else

il tell you one thing cyberpunk is a darn good cpu benchmark

[thin trout]

likely scam. It's relatively easy to make a drive that is actually e.g. 16GB but reports 512GB and they trick people often, at least for long enough for the seller to sell a bunch more and get away

[safe trench]

its honestly such an easy scam to do

[twin dew]

And just upgrading my laptop from 23H2 to 24H2, needed to do couple of registry edits to bypass the CPU check.

[wanton orchid]

any wrong intent that can be expressed as an oopsi will eventually be expressed as such

there is nuance between innocence and naivety

naivety if tolerated is quickly weaponized

[thin trout]

I've got two, they're great

[night girder]

YT copyright system is perfect.

You can get striked for a video. Fight it legally. Win it. And you get striked for the same thing again 🤣

[visual tree]

Finally something good from EU: https://www.reddit.com/r/FinanzenAT/s/2tOaTt0eQ3

I am always nervous when sending money to IBAN of a natural person because I could mistype IBAN and my money could go to the wrong person

Now you can see who owns the bank account so you can be sure you are sending money to the right person

[verbal raft]

a bad one at that

[languid gulch]

iirc the 6500XT was supposed to be an iGPU

[twin dew]

It is laptop APU with CPU disabled.

IIRC.

[languid gulch]

ah

could be worse, like an intel igpu

[twin dew]

No, it is dGPU, but cheap laptop one.

So only 4x PCIe as that is common with cheap laptop CPUs as max output to dGPU etc.

[languid gulch]

ah right, i remember the x4 being an issue

[sterile plinth]

is that game rust

[verbal raft]

no, kingdom come deliverance 2

[sterile plinth]

I recently remembered that this whole time ive been using my ram on 2133mhz because it cant xmp

how much fps could i be losing from that

the thing is I bought 3600mhz ram, but when I turned on XMP it would blue screen me every 1 day

[pure karma]

a lot

[sterile plinth]

it kept getting worse and worse, my system had gotten corrupted to the point where i couldnt even open exe files

[pure karma]

like atleast 20-30%

[sterile plinth]

so i had to turn off xmp and format my entire windows partition

[sterile plinth]

can you recommend me a good brand that doesnt lie about their ram clocks

i think the last one i got was either hyperx or team force, cant remember

and yeah as i said turning on xmp resulted in constant crashes and my os got corrupted

[pure karma]

the onyl ddr4 ram ik is a hyperx kit you cant buy soooooo probably ask fireworker or maybe baldur idk

[twin dew]

XMP is what the RAM can do as single set, in Golden Sample system.
Not what it can do with your MB and CPU IMC.

XMP is RAM OC from CPU view.

[sterile plinth]

well i have a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite, 600w power supply and ryzen 5600

I dont see how 3600mhz ram wouldnt befit such a system

like, its on par, I dont think im using overly powerful ram compared to the rest of my specs

[twin dew]

Point is that if one set didn't work, other same speed XMP/EXPO sets are unlikely to work either.
As the issue is with the other parts, not the RAM.

[sterile plinth]

which part could be affecting them, then?

[twin dew]

5600 is officially only up to 3200MT/s, but unofficially that 3600MT/s should have worked in almost all cases.

[twin dew]

Either very bad luck with silicon lottery with the IOD, or MB doing something stupid.

[sterile plinth]

it was scary because they were not harmless crashes but they permanently ruined my system, thats why ive been really skeptical about doing further tests ever since i turned xmp off

[twin dew]

As XMP only sets some of the latencies, MB sets the rest, and set the IOD IMC voltages.
XMP only directly raises the RAM VDIMM.

You always need to do RAM stability testing after enabling XMP.

[sterile plinth]

memtest86 doesnt detect it

or maybe i would need to do a ridiculous amount of passes for it to do

#off-topic-tech message old messages from this issue

now obviously 2 passes is very low to assess whether xmp is problematic

but from experience, these crashes happened once every 40 hours or so

I cant be running memtests for a week until i find a right frequency, it becomes a waste of time at some point

I mean, can the silicon be THAT unlucky

[twin dew]

Just means it is almost stable, and there is just some tiny corner case somewhere in the operating envelope at the timings the MB set.

[sterile plinth]

so, what are my options then, if buying new ram wont fix this

in case it matters i am running PBO

[pure karma]

new board or manual timing

[twin dew]

XMP on, drop RAM frequency one step.

Check that you don't have any MB functionality on that would try to "optimize" the RAM settings.

[sterile plinth]

and how do i test if the new frequency is stable without 40 hour memtest86 sessions?

[twin dew]

If MemTest86 didn't find it in 4 passes, it is very unlikely to find it in more, as it probably isn't hitting right access pattern at all.

[sterile plinth]

okay, I will try, but last time it didnt detect my faulty XMP with 2 passes

i hope these extra 2 will make the difference then

[twin dew]

Point is, it probably won't find anything with your problem.

And you can only use the system and hope, or try some Windows side stresser.

[pure karma]

im pretty sure my ram issues is that only one of my sticks is unstable cause its only when both sticks are loaded that my system is unstable lol

[sterile plinth]

this hope part is what bothers me

[thin trout]

Usually it's people putting memory in the wrong slots

[sterile plinth]

one or two of these crashes and you have to reinstall your OS

[sterile plinth]

i am running dual channel

[thin trout]

memtest86 isn't a useful test in 2025. Try OCCT RAM test

[thin trout]

Which slots?

[twin dew]

And most MBs have 4 slots.
And it is important in which order they are used.

[sterile plinth]

a2b2

[thin trout]

Mobo's do a lot of dumb things, problem is if you turn XMP on they change 10 other variables, some of which might not even be related

so it's difficult to diagnose

but yeah, lower frequency probably works fine without having to adjust anything else

[sterile plinth]

does a too low cl ever cause issues

3600mhz cl16 crashes me, if i run 3200mhz cl14 is there any chance that it just doesnt like high frequncy and low cl at the same time

[thin trout]

no

[twin dew]

Lower number is tighter.
But that one is limited on the RAM end.

[thin trout]

CPU/mobo basically doesn't care, and for RAM 3600c16 is about the same delay as 3200 c14

is your RAM 3600 16-16-16? or 16-19-19 etc

[twin dew]

And that cares about absolute time, not the number which is just in clock cycles.

[sterile plinth]

apparently its 18-22-22 💀

[night girder]

I learned, that motherboards in general are not easy to diagnose when shit hits the fan 😄

[thin trout]

what is the capacity also

[sterile plinth]

2x16gb

if you mean the 4th timings number, its 42

[thin trout]

dug this out for ya

tl;dr don't worry about CL in particular (labeled CAS-RD there). A ton of other timings have similar or sometimes much greater impact, and many of them cannot appear in xmp/expo profiles for no real reason other than nobody bothered to make the standard support a value for them.

That testing is on a zen 3 CPU

[sterile plinth]

I see, that's good to know

so, for my ram's specs, what clock would you suggest to make sure it remains stable

F4-3600C18-8GVK this is the stick if its important

[thin trout]

that's 2x8, you said 2x16 earlier

[sterile plinth]

you're right, my bad

2x8 is what i have

[thin trout]

and: Just whatever works, you can try a lower freq and run OCCT test

if it fails then it's bad

should work somewhere between 3600 and 3200 at worst

[sterile plinth]

even one crash from ram failure can destroy my OS so im trying to avoid booting into windows for any testing

maybe something similar to memtest86?

[thin trout]

CPU can too. Usually they don't, but you're right it is a valid risk

there aren't any useful tools for testing outside of the OS though, other than for validating that a config isn't extremely unstable before going into OS for real testing. Some people use a sacrificial OS for testing 😄

[sterile plinth]

what i meant is something i can put on a usb, small in size

[thin trout]

dm'd you 😄

[sterile plinth]

github.com/stressapptest/stressapptest

im guessing this one?

[thin trout]

also, setting to 3200 16-20-20 1.35v should have extremely low chance of failure. If it somehow has a few errors there, you can try 3200 18-20-20 in case the RAM can't do the CL that it says it can

[sterile plinth]

wow, all in an ISO, the one you sent me looks perfect for using with ventoy

[sterile plinth]

and will get close enough to 3600cl16 as far as performance goes?

[thin trout]

It will get a lot closer than 2133 😄

[sterile plinth]

lol i hope so

while in most games im fine in some ones like Rust I get 80fps

lets pray this resolves it, although fps in that game is in general shitty (i know 4070tis which get 60)

[thin trout]

there is no substitute for frequency on those CPU's (we set the interconnect as fast as it will go, and run the memory clock at the same clock in lockstep)

but in 2025 it's not worth the money to replace RAM really, because CPU upgrades are much larger and more cost effective

the RAM OC stuff is mostly when it was the best CPU and we want to get 20% more out of it at high cost of money and time.

[sterile plinth]

i am no OC lunatic but if i can escape using 2133mhz i happily will

[twin dew]

And most likely other 3600MT/s RAM wouldn't work either with the MB and CPU, at 3600MT/s.

[thin trout]

The RAM is a little sus but good chances, yeah

[sterile plinth]

Should be good?

The measurement units for the ram timings were really confusing

[twin dew]

16h might mean 16 in hex...
Were there entries with A-F used in them?

[sterile plinth]

I believe you're correct, it says 8clk,9clk, then 0A, 0B.. so it's indeed hex. In that case, 16 would be 10h

And 20 would be 14

Should be good now?

[twin dew]

Probably, and will almost certainly fail to boot if that wasn't in hex.

[thin trout]

there should be a menu to set timings in base 10

[twin dew]

Under AMD Overclocking, but there have been MBs where those don't work as the MBs own menu overwrites the stuff, even on Auto.

Even when AMDs guidance is that whichever is set should be used, when other is on Auto.

But basically Gigabytes UEFI UI coders weren't really thinking with that version...

[sterile plinth]

Umm great so now my PC is a black screen

Keyboard doesn't work monitor gives no input

I tried powering off and reopening it and still nothing

Guess I'll have to press that bios reset button wherever it is

[thin trout]

clearing cmos will reset it yeah

99% sure there is another menu (not AMD overclocking, just on the board) using regular numbers

[sterile plinth]

Not really

Actually, it's weird

There are two menus, one lets me change the timings but has no option for changing frequency

And the amd one lets me change the frequency and timings

[twin dew]

Doesn't need to be done in same place.
And that RAM frequency change is usually front and center, while timings are in submenu.

[twin dew]

That System Memory Multiplier or near it in the second pic up top.

And then that Advanced Memory Settings?

[thin trout]

The screen is here.

Tweaker tab at the top.

System memory multiplier > 32

timings are in Advanced Memory Settings right under it

[sterile plinth]

Wait, can you tell me what what "FCLK" means

[thin trout]

it's the interconnect between chiplets, should be on 1600mhz for you

[sterile plinth]

Oh really, system memory multiplier was frequency

[twin dew]

Multiplier from 100MHz base clock at which the RAM runs at.

[sterile plinth]

I guess randomly seeing the number 21 without any measurement units or anything didn't really strike me as that

[thin trout]

yeah it's not the best labelling 😄

[sterile plinth]

And the hex timings... Whoever made this bios needs to be fired

anyway I have to go now I'll give updates in a few hours

[thin trout]

gl

gigabyte am4 was an experience. I did it, a friend too

They made multiple different beta bioses with the same name (like, one f13h and another f13h were actually different)

and then they leaked everybodies and their own info

and didn't publish any updates for months while they were scrambling to unfuck their systems

[night girder]

that would set me off 🤣

[thin trout]

bad enough that they used half the alphabet trying to make a version that wasn't broken

[night girder]

build-pleaseEndMySuffering

[mental oriole]

Your suffering shall not end

[pure karma]

i had one and im still using it

f11a my beloved

[sterile plinth]

@thin trout by the way, regarding gsat, what arguments should I run it with? The recommended ones from the website, or do I need anything special

[languid gulch]

so are any of the nvidia drivers newer than december's worth updating to for 40 series?

[sterile plinth]

Weird things are happening

I turned off the power supply, opened up my PC, shorted the clear-cmos pins, turned on the power supply and booted the pc

I'm still getting the black screen, but when I try to hold down the power button to turn off the PC the blue light flashes weirdly and the computer doesn't shut down

It's as if the computer is trying to tell me that i mustn't shut it down

Its not like I'm flashing a bios though, a CMOS clear should take a few seconds, yet it's been like that for 10 minutes

It doesn't allow me to shut it down but it also doesn't post, I'm not sure what I gotta do here

Full video here

Before y'all say stainless steel doesn't conduct electricity I also tried with a paper clip

[pure karma]

i did since the old ones started breaking

its ok if you always update to the latest one asap before it corupts and dies again

[clear garden]

Welp it happened

It has been great 4 years

May I be able to recover something

[charred relic]

Stainless steel can definitely carry current...

I have a device made of 316L where the device casing itself is the - path

It can get away with it with it's particular application just due to the size of the pathway. Definitely not something normally useful for conducting current since it's nowhere near as good as something like copper.

Also have a copper device that works the same way... the majority of the device itself is the - lead

[twin dew]

Turn off PSU, remove CMOS battery for 30 seconds, short the pins for 10 during that time, then reinstall battery, turn on PSU and try again.

[pure karma]

thats is a impressively low lifespan

[twin dew]

Is there anything wrong besides computer side connector housing getting stuck in the drive?
Because that should be trivial to pull out and then use the drive on any other computer?

[twin dew]

Because that black two-part thing sticking out top isn't part of the drive.
It is part of the laptop, drive mount or cable.

[visual tree]

Sprinkle this with some AI and we are in trouble... https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/s/W0Nm4wzqYN

Some guy posted in the comments he got flagged as a "flight risk" because he took a day off to care for his sick child

[twin dew]

Would have needed to take more days in same set... Interpreted as going to job interview and lying about it.

But yeah, just stupid...

[visual tree]

So, the tool will basically flag top-performing employees if they take PTO for whatever reason, they will be excluded from the meetings or projects and then later quit because they feel like they are being completely ignored while HR will brag about how their tool works perfectly without realizing they made an environment with a self-fulfilling prophecy

Last thing we need is integrating AI into this tool and the tool flagging employees for the dumbest reasons

[clear garden]

Idk I havent opened it up yet

[twin dew]

Opened what up yet?
There is nothing to open.

[clear garden]

Oh u mean the cable

[twin dew]

Opening the drive itself is very bad idea.

[clear garden]

The drive housing had a guide on how to disconnect it and it showed it this way

[twin dew]

You failed with that, or it had failed already.
That protruding thing was supposed to stay with the housing PCB.

The drive is almost certainly ok, and only that housing side connector failed.

[clear garden]

This?

[twin dew]

Yes.
That black protruding thing with the ribbon cable is not part of the drive, but the housing.

You were supposed to pull on that small black tab over the ribbon.

To pull that connector out of the drive.

[clear garden]

Why do you think the cable was the reason? It functioned fine in the past years

[twin dew]

Don't know, but point is to try the drive as is on something else.
There is nothing repairable for you inside the housing.

Needs professional help for data recovery if it doesn't just work with some other SATA connection than that specific housing.

[night girder]

plottwist, the bios update did not work for me 🤣

[visual tree]

Was it asrock and cpu issues (can't remember that conversation exactly)?

Wonder if I should still buy asus mbo next time:

[night girder]

yeah, thinking about going overpriced Asus

[visual tree]

I had gigabyte motherboards for years before switching to asus 10 years ago

And I once managed to damage the board when replacing cpu thermal paste. My screwdriver slipped....

My previous asus motherboard was still working fine though when I decided to upgrade my pc (currently have Asus TUF Gaming B550-Plus)

And yes, I know TUF gaming is a marketing gimmick 😅

[night girder]

I care little for what anyone says at this point. I've heard it all. Don't pay overpriced hardware. Don't do this. Don't do that.

If one brand works for me. And another one doesn't. Then I pick the brand that works for me.

If people have amazing experience with product X of brand Y, doesn't mean others also have. And vice versa with bad experiences. Doesn't mean everyone will have them.

[visual tree]

Same, didn't have issues with asus so far even though people don't like it

[night girder]

My previous asus board is going strong for about 8-10 years now, my niece still gaming on it 🤣

this systems hasn't been stable since the day I bought it for 2 years now. Build in 2023.

[visual tree]

I still use Asus VG248QE gaming monitor and somehow it still works after 10 years

[night girder]

Ah, no point bitching about it. Slapping in a new motherboard in a few months and we'll see. Now I am just hoarding data.

At the moment, I have an average of 4 days that the system can run 24/7.

[visual tree]

At least I won't need to replace my PSU when upgrading. Will need 32 GB of RAM, new Ryzen CPU and probably RX 9070 XT

[night girder]

So in theory, I should put in new motherboard, wait 4 days and see what happens 😛

And if that doesn't work.

Then it must be the PSU right 🤣

or I just find another hobby. Bird watching or something.

[visual tree]

Do you have a spare PSU or CPU just to confirm it might not be a motherboard issue?

[night girder]

yeah, I got a spare CPU. But that one was acting up also. That one was more unstable than this one.

[visual tree]

or you could bring the PC to repair shop and ask them to test hardware

[night girder]

Nah, we are way past that point.

I've contacted them. They do the same as I did, but only ask a lot of money for it.

This system has been stress tested. It's been Baldur trouble-shooted and even he gave up.

[twin dew]

Basically needs that swap testing, and no access to another MB or PSU.

[night girder]

So at this point it's just swapping parts until stable.

Or buy new system, but current market isn't so kind for that.

And I can hear the instability. It's coming from around the CPU area.

Once I can hear a certain coil whine / ticking sound, I know it's about a day before it crashes.

[visual tree]

Here are the local prices (sorry for bad google translate):

[night girder]

It could be the fans. But too lazy to install fan control to disable it when I hear the sound so I know if it's fans or cpu.

[night girder]

50 euro's for a stress test? 40 euro for dust cleaning.

30 euros for bios upgrade is most sick one imo. I would do it for 10.

[visual tree]

Backup for €99,90 (including USB)???

[night girder]

Yeah crazy right?

[visual tree]

Not sure if the local PC store offers that (they probably do) but they probably won't charge much for it since it's basically transfering data to USB stick or some other device

[night girder]

stress testing is also not something they are actively doing.

Anyway, going out to walk the dog and get some 🌞

[sterile plinth]

Doesn't that require disassembling half my PC to reach the CMOS battery

[twin dew]

Depends on MB.

[visual tree]

I wonder if my company is going to start updating laptops to Windows 11 since Windows 10 support officially ends in approximatelly 1 month

I think most of them aren't older than 5 years and probably have TPM 2.0

[twin dew]

TPM 2.0 has been standard in CPUs long before the CPUs are supported with Win11.

[soft bloom]

anyone encountered strange thing when steam decided that it's window will be pure mono black?

[visual tree]

I have 2 olders laptops from 2013/2014 which unfortunatelly don't have TPM 2.0 😭

[twin dew]

And they also don't have CPUs that are officially Win11 supported, when minimum is 8th Gen Intel or Ryzen 2.

And both that TPM requirement and CPU requirement can be bypassed.

[visual tree]

I think the laptop has haswell "hasfail" 4th generation CPU

So, it's stuck on Windows 10 atm

[twin dew]

Like said, need to use Rufus or like to make custom image that bypasses TPM and CPU requirements.
Or if you want to do inside-Windows update, need to do two regedits.

[visual tree]

I probably won't be updating OS since I rarely use those laptops (mostly for browsing on rare ocassions)

Experimenting with linux distro would make more sense in my case

[glossy glacier]

ventoy sets the bypass automatically

[sterile plinth]

Done, this looks good?

[twin dew]

Should b e.

[sterile plinth]

works! At this point I have learnt my computer's fan profile so well I can tell the exact second it posts with my eyes closed

[mental oriole]

@night girder got my threadpool to work...
Currently, it's slower than openmp

But I'm also running 70% load for whatever reason...

I'm guessing cache misses

[thin trout]

yes but it was 1.35v wasnt it

[twin dew]

Probably for the XMP.

[night girder]

Baldur, remember that I set everything to auto a year or two ago ont he motherboard?

On your recommentdation. Today I was digging into my BIOS again, because I find it weird I receive no WHEA logging.

[twin dew]

Those AMD CBS settings to let that work again did reset too.

[night girder]

Now, I was digging deeper into the BIOS and I found a few more settings that have hardcoded values and could be set to auto.

[twin dew]

What kind of settings?

[night girder]

Now I wonder, why aren't those auto.

and how harmfull would it be to set those to auto.

I wrote down:

AMD CBS -> RX DFE TAPS = 2 (can be set to auto)
AMD CBS -> TX DFE TAPS = 2 (can be set to auto)
DRR5 -> Nitro Mode (can be set to auto)

Etc.

I can go through the whole system and give you a full list, or can we just assume auto can be fine?

[twin dew]

What is that Nitro mode set to?
But anything under CBS is at AMD defaults.
Those are related to RAM training, and mostly tuned for getting to over 6000MT/s RAM speeds.

Enabling that Nitro for example loosens some IMC internal timings so that it works better at high RAM speeds.

[night girder]

I have to restart my system. But I just found out that the section that has "Accept/Decline are you sure what you doing?" isn't been reset to default when I press to "load default"

[twin dew]

And those DFE taps control how much work the training does, higher number is more exact, but takes more time.

[night girder]

I think you miss my point.

Why are those set with hard coded values.

And not auto, as I would expect it to be.

[twin dew]

Because AMD in that specific AGESA version set them to be defaulted to those values.

[night girder]

Is that ssomething that is wrong on my side, or are those values set by bios update?

Gotcha.

[twin dew]

DFE taps 2 and Nitro off is the default.

[night girder]

Let me check. Be back in a few.

[thin trout]

Your motherboard probably changed them if you changed the memory multiplier. Otherwise it should just read "auto".

[twin dew]

But basically anything under AMD CBS, AMD Overclocking and the third AMD one are at AMD AGESA version defaults after reset to defaults.

Which isn't always "Auto".

[night girder]

I didn't do anything.

[twin dew]

But basically only reason I know about those settings is that AMD OC team members talked about them in Reddit when that Nitro mode was added.

And that those specific settings are the defaults.

[night girder]

Anyway what I did was;

• LOG TRANSPARENT ERRORS: AUTO -> ENABLED.
• SMU and PSP Debug Mode: AUTO -> ENABLED.
• PSP error injection support: FALSE -> TRUE.

I really hate the auto setting, it tells me jack.

[thin trout]

if you reset to defaults and literally did not touch anything, then maybe your bios just reports differently. I have not heard of them being anything other than auto though

[night girder]

And @twin dew DDR5 Nitro Mode is set to enabled.

[night girder]

I reset it every bios update, believe me. Because that's what the manual told me to do.

[twin dew]

Those two latter ones are bad idea.
But you need to set Platform First Error Handling to False.

[thin trout]

you did not use xmp/expo?

[night girder]

No.

[thin trout]

which board vendor is that

[night girder]

Like I said; bios update -> load all defaults. And that's it.

[night girder]

I didn't find that one.

[thin trout]

||it's asrock isn't it||

[night girder]

assrock indeed 😄

[thin trout]

😬

Yeah that board is doing stuff outside of AMD's rules, and one or more of the things that it's doing may be killing cpu's

these ones are not going to cause harm, but it makes me wonder wtf else they are doing

[night girder]

CAN BE SET TO AUTO:

TX DFE TAPS: 2 TAPS (can be auto)
RX2D_TrainOpt: Manual (can be auto)
TX2D TrainsOpt: Manual (can be auto)
TX2D Delay Step Size Multiplier: no multiplier (can be auto)
Memory Context Restore: Enabled (can be auto)
PCIE ARI enumeration: Disabled (can be auto)
Pluton Security Processor: Disabled (can be auto)

That's all the values I found, that could be set to auto. But are for some reason, what they are.

[twin dew]

Basically gives more stable RAM, with tiny bit more latency.

And little longer training time.

[night girder]

Ok. Not it.

[sterile plinth]

you're right, ill do that

btw is it normal that task manager is still showing 2133mhz

[night girder]

reverted two latter ones. enabled platform first and transparent.

[sterile plinth]

is it only 3200 under load?

[twin dew]

No, RAM frequency is static.

[sterile plinth]

well, ill see what other options i can turn on then

but ill steer away from that amd overclocking tab

[jagged snow]

Speaking of oc, I'm very impressed with how my 9070xt takes an undervolt
Can very easily do a -100mV offset and do 2.6GHz steady ingame

[sterile plinth]

alright, i needed to use 1.35 volts for 3200mhz to appear

[sterile plinth]

is undervolting useful for reducing overheating?

[night girder]

When this item is set to
[Enabled]
, uncorrected errors detected by the PSP FW or
SMU FW that should cause a cold reset, will hang and not restart the system.

Why would this be a bad idea?

[jagged snow]

Yes

[night girder]

Oh, because cold restart is not what is happening on my end?

[jagged snow]

But can also introduce lots of instability if not done carefully

[twin dew]

Well, can be used to determine that might be problem, when the system would just freeze, instead of rebooting.

[night girder]

That was my reasoning. But then I thought, if the system hangs in a "bad" state it might cause damage.

[twin dew]

Didn't remember what that exactly does, but setting like that was meant for actual HW development and like.

But that is pretty benign one.

[night girder]

Well all good and well 🤣

[twin dew]

That other one just allows you to use software to cause errors.

[night girder]

I can use all the tools

[twin dew]

That Error Injection.

[night girder]

Ah, yeah turned it off 😄

[twin dew]

Basically allows special software to bitbang and set stuff that shouldn't be touched.
Usually used to cause one bit errors to check that ECC and error reporting works.

[night girder]

Man, why do I get so much shit with this system. Didn't even underclock it. Didn't overclock it. And it still 💩 itself

[night girder]

Yeah, not what we need 😄 I turn on that freeze. 99% it wont help, but what doesn't harm 🤷‍♂️

Was thinking off turning XMP on for the RAM to see if to becomes more stable. Or unstable.

[jagged snow]

JDEC spec is the one place where every pice of memory related hardware is suppose to be guaranteed stable

[sterile plinth]

moon eclipse today guys!!

[night girder]

Also, 2 years ago, I reset motherboard to "default" and a bunch of settings just stayed locked down @values.

So I set a lot back then on auto (which should have been done by loading default).

Saying, that I have little faith in the "default" option of my motherboard, that's why I asked if the values wouldn't need to be turned to auto.

and besides that, Asrock (or mobo makers in general) really need to explain wtf auto exactly does.

Because it's the most confusing, infuriating thing when going through the settings.

"logging: auto" ... does this mean it's enable. disbled? 🤷‍♂️

[thin trout]

Asus caused a 30% CPU performance loss in some workloads this year when they changed "auto" to mean "disabled" instead of "enabled" on an obscure RAM addressing setting

without any patch note or UI change

that was an interesting few weeks of people combing the bios and setting random settings to enabled/disabled to see if it fixed it 😛

[night girder]

Yeah, that's the point I am at right now 🤣

just toggling shit on/off, enable, disable, ... to see what sticks.

I do a little sanity check here to make sure I don't anything dumb ofc.

I think I could also use asrock default presets to underclock and overclock everything.

[sterile plinth]

If I don't get any screen tearing on low fps, should i still use freesync or is there no point

[jagged snow]

Using it does reduce latency slightly

And even if you're not getting tearing right now, there's really not any downside to using it

[thin trout]

There is always tearing, you just might not notice it directly.

You will notice the loss of smoothness caused by tearing and images being updated irregularly though, VRR will fix that.

The loss of smoothness is greatest if you have an FPS between 50% and 100% of the monitor's refresh rate

for example on 60hz monitor, the most noticable smoothness loss from refresh and frame desync happens at 40-45fps

[sterile plinth]

as far as input delay goes will it be lower or higher?

[thin trout]

VRR doesn't add latency

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcQ2tLLNLo8

[thin trout]

Nvidia driver stuff has been all over the place for older cards

Using 4000 series i had to use 566.66, newer would crash constantly

On 5000 series, 536.66 isn't supported, but newer drivers DID work (the same ones which didn't work on 4000 series with the same system)

[languid gulch]

566.36

yea, still on it myself

thankfully i'm not playing anything newer than that

[pure karma]

im on 581.08

[sterile plinth]

ive heard that very high polling rates (e.g 4k) can cause stutters on worse end PCs, would this affect me on a 5600 6700xt

[jagged snow]

It shouldn't but it is some extra overhead with very little benefit

[languid gulch]

yea i've never heard of any case where you'd need over 1k

[thin trout]

You need over 1k for smooth mouse input with a screen over 144hz

because of the desync between the screen update rate, game update rate and the mouse polls

since those rates are not locked together, we have no way to lock the mouse update rate to be in sync with them, the only way to get a consistent number of mouse updates in each refresh or frame is to poll the mouse really really often.

[languid gulch]

i'm yet to see any human capable of narrowing down an unpredicted action to a single frame

[thin trout]

That's not required, and nobody talked about that.

You can do for example a mouse pan to turn the camera in an FPS game, and 250fps with 4000hz mouse poll will look smoother than 360fps with 1000hz mouse poll despite being at a lower framerate.

this is what 500hz mouse input on a 360hz monitor looks like

this is 1000 on 360

(you can clearly see irregularity)

and 2000hz on 360hz, much closer to perfect

And no, we don't need a photo of the screen to find an impact, it's just much easier to convey over a discord chat that way rather than having people download high framerate videos and watch them on their slower monitors via slowing down playback.

I can easily blind test 1000 vs 2000+ (as in 10 out of 10 correct), and a bit less easily (8/10+ correct) 2000 vs 4000hz on my 380hz IPS. It was even easier on 480hz OLED.

[languid gulch]

yea i've been bouncing between 250 & 1000 on my 144Hz & i can't tell a difference

[thin trout]

500 vs 1000hz should be really obvious on a 144 monitor

that's the worst of the common cases

500 is about 3.5 polls per refresh (so it bounces between updating 3 times vs updating 4 times, in the same amount of real time), while 1000 is almost exactly 7, and quite near perfect.

Load up an FPS game that can run at a high and smooth framerate and move camera back and forth

or stare at one point on your monitor and move the cursor past your eye focus point at a constant speed

should be very easily visible

[languid gulch]

i have been

and no, not really

[thin trout]

dunno what to say then. Maybe 1khz doesn't work properly on your mouse, and all of them look bad (has been known to happen)

Most of my testing was on the superlight v1 and v2, and viper pro v3; they're definitely good (although superlights require g hub to be open 24/7 for polling rate to stick)

[languid gulch]

redragon M913

[thin trout]

You don't need much to check it in an objective way, i just pointed a smartphone camera at the screen

and the distance that each cursor appears away from each other is literally the amount of turning that your char will do in a game where your mouse input is turning the camera. Any irregularity there shows up as a less smooth turn.

I can take a few more since i have 4khz+ now

[languid gulch]

ok thru the camera the "missed" spots are a lot more obvious

still can't see them naturally tho 🤣

like you said earlier, a lot of overhead without a lot of benefit

[thin trout]

that wasn't me 😄 but ye, depends on refresh rate

It actually can cause problems even on world record hardware

[languid gulch]

probably looks a lot jitterier on 60/30fps recording

[thin trout]

best to set as a floor:

120-144hz: 1k

200hz: 2k
333hz: 4k

8k is only marginally better, and tends to be offset by it causing FPS drops and stuff that hurt as much as it helps

as well as battery drain since wireless mouse is a huge advantage, and 8k makes them drain like 50% faster than 4k

[languid gulch]

iirc LTT showed that some of those high polling mice can use like 5% cpu

[thin trout]

a lot more

it used to be far worse, but i have a game where moving the mouse at 4k cuts fps in half 😄

There's a great study on the subject but the link went dead a while ago and i can't find the .pdf right now. It was @ http:// kuaa.net/publications/2021-DoWeNeedAFasterMouse.pdf

[languid gulch]

i'm still confused as to why we need a 32k dpi mouse

[thin trout]

we don't

1 sensor count = 1 pixel means that the sensitivity that i want is 850dpi on 1080p, or 1700dpi on 4k

technically you can do with a little higher resolution in an FPS game as they can move in smaller intervals than a pixel, arbitrarily small, but once you get to like detecting 1/1000'th of a centimeter of movement when you are using 30cm to turn around it becomes completely meaningless. Doesn't really matter if you turned 30,000 or 30,002 "notches".

[languid gulch]

i'm at 3500 on 1440UW, but i have dpi on the fly so i can drop it down to 250 if i need to

[thin trout]

1080p 273 dpi for the memes 😄

[languid gulch]

see, that doesn't look like fun to me

RSI Simulator

[thin trout]

Yeah, it's 1/3'rd of my normal sens 😄

[pure karma]

i daily 1000

with tripple 1440P monitors which is quite low tbh

[thin trout]

I also learned only recently that the windows display scaling actually multiplies your sensitivity too

[pure karma]

but my mouse can do like 16000dpi lol

[charred relic]

oh yeah well my mouse can like...move a pointer thingy around and move shit and stuff so...

😄

I actually have one of those trackball things out here...

No idea how many dpi it is... can't recall

ah 1600 tops, but it does what it was designed to do. Mouse mouse is one a Redragon M908, pretty sure it goes a wee bit higher

12,400 on the mouse apparently... that's what I use for any gaming and such since it's on the big boy upstairs

[sterile plinth]

do yall slide your chair's arm rests underneath your desk or keep them level with it

the issue is that if its level then I can never rest on the back of the chair because my arm wouldnt be able to reach the mouse properly

and if its not level im ridiculously low to the point where my knees cant even keep a 90 degree angle

[thin trout]

Level, and i don't rest on the back of the chair (other than lumbar support) when using mouse

[sterile plinth]

seperate one, or the one that comes embedded in the chair

[thin trout]

part of chair

You're having a problem because your arm rests stick out too far forwards and hit the desk?

the comfiest that i've used are this style

[sterile plinth]

yes, i am planning to get a chair with smaller ones like the ones you showed

ive had this one for a while anyway

do you think a footrest serves any purpose on such chairs or is it a gimmick

[thin trout]

if your feet can't comfortably reach the floor and you can't fix it with desk+chair height adjusts

[languid gulch]

i modded my chair arms with some plates and extra long machine screws to drop them down about 7cm, so that their max height is comfortable to me, but they can now drop way down below table height

[languid gulch]

oh maybe not that much height, more like 4-5cm

[pure karma]

too low but my desk is also too thick for htem to go under

but there padded so i dont wanna get rid of them lol

[bronze jasper]

Proper Ergonomics would have your arm at a flat level to your mouse and kb. Arm rest being at that height makes sense

[sterile plinth]

Not comfortable for my back though

even with good posture lower back gets tired after long

I'll probably invest in a lumbar support

[pure karma]

Im too short to have them that high

[night girder]

Me trying to figure out if the ticking sound comes from PSU or CPU 🤣

I know the solution, put PSU outside case.

[charred relic]

This is why it's good to own a stethoscope..

Also can be useful for figuring out exactly where in an engine a tap or knock is coming from heh

I found that out only after I assumed the lifters in my Fiero were what was tapping and tore all the way down to replace them... put it back together.

Ran great... with the same tap lol

[sterile plinth]

for me it's always the pesky cables getting inside the fan

[pure karma]

its especially fun when you realsie its the PSU capaciters just being overcharged and not a fan at all

[night girder]

I don't think it's fans anyway.

[languid gulch]

actual hack for it: buy a cheap old stethoscope

[proud aspen]

yo guys in this channel

what minimum specs should i look for as an upgradable

[languid gulch]

my general aim is if it maxxes out my monitor

[twin dew]

Basically jenny needs cheapest possible Satisfactory build in Germany, as the current non-gaming laptop with Intel IGP cannot run 1.1 anymore budget needs to be as minimal as possible right now.

[proud aspen]

non-gaming laptop tablet

but yh

[twin dew]

Better to talk about Windows tablet as laptop in this case.

[proud aspen]

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/jennytime9/saved/#view=zMCJmG <<-- i was thinking along this line spec-wise

[proud aspen]

fair

[languid gulch]

why throw a 360 AIO in a bottom end system

that's a gigantic waste

[proud aspen]

for the upgradability my guy

also audio

[twin dew]

Also, good deal used systems would probably be ok too as suggestions.

[languid gulch]

if that was the logic, then you'd be on AM5. thermalright peerless assassin 120SE. quieter than my 360 AIO i have

[proud aspen]

am5 uhhhh

[twin dew]

Cheapest AM5 CPU is 150+e

[proud aspen]

i was abboutta make the cheapest possible to show him but this should be enough

the cheapest cpu is +100 alr

[languid gulch]

and probably comes with a stock cooler that works fine with it

[proud aspen]

still 50 more than my cpu+aio

[languid gulch]

water cooling is for once you've already burnt cash on getting a top tier CPU

[twin dew]

That specific CPU also might come with stock cooler, unless that is some tray CPU.

And not Boxed retail one.

[languid gulch]

and if not, spend $10 on an AM4 stock cooler. it'll handle that cpu just fine

[proud aspen]

ooooh

[languid gulch]

there ya go

[languid gulch]

so that saves you €70 right there

[proud aspen]

but the main question is if this cpu+ram+gpu combo is enough to play satisfactory

i just wanna play for 3-5 months and then fully upgrade it all

[twin dew]

If possible, I would look for anything but Nvidia 5000-series GPU, as the drivers for those are still a mess.

[languid gulch]

B580 12gb is 265

[proud aspen]

i have a thing about intel

[languid gulch]

lol

[proud aspen]

desparate passion against those gpus

let me have a longer scower

like?

[languid gulch]

not bad

[twin dew]

One option would be to just get 5000 AMD G-series APU CPU for now, without GPU at all, and 2x8GB or 2x16GB of RAM.

5500GT for example.

[proud aspen]

oooh

wait bros cooking

[twin dew]

Or 5600GT for tiny bit more.

[proud aspen]

uhh gt is vega 7

wait, i actually think vega is the one lineup where i dunno which is better

[twin dew]

Yes, but still usable.
And upgradeable later with GPU.
I'll install Satisfactory onto my secondary computer tomorrow that has Ryzen 4650G, and give some performance numbers.

[proud aspen]

so the 5600GT?

[twin dew]

IGP is the same, difference is in the CPU core clocks.

3.6/4.4 for 5500GT and 3.6/4.6 for 5600GT.
So 5600GT can have up to 200MHz more frequency on CPU side.

But I'm off to bed, will try to remember to do those performance tests with same model IGP with worse CPU cores tomorrow.

[proud aspen]

cool

so here are the 2 possibilities so far

[sterile plinth]

are you sure its a good idea to get the cheapest power supply you can find

Also if youre not planning to get a gpu you might as well invest in the 8600g

[glossy glacier]

go for the AM5 option and add a second stick of DDR5

[proud aspen]

had name stroke

[proud aspen]

yes

it'll be fine

[proud aspen]

will the game need it

[sterile plinth]

100%

[pure karma]

i mean on a lategame save im sitting at 13GB of ram usage game only not counting windows

16GB id say is the bare minimum

[glossy glacier]

on windows? for sure
or get at least one 16GB stick and add another one later

[proud aspen]

I have an 8gig tablet and get windows to use between 2-3gigs

ram isnt the issue why this device doesnt run the game

[glossy glacier]

3GB WIN + 4GB Game + ??GB VRAM?
You need more than 8GB RAM without an dGPU

[proud aspen]

right

[glossy glacier]

looking decent for an office PC ^^

[pure karma]

one other thing to keep in mind is integrated graphics likely doesn't support features needed for anyhting above absolute minimum graphics settings (or atleast it dident use to) so even if you have spare performance you wont be able to use it

[glossy glacier]

it's an 740M, should be decent-ish for low, maybe mid settings.
technically supports RT and upscaling

[proud aspen]

thoughts on putting a bit more money towards a better psu and motherboard so I dont need to upgrade those down the line?

the budget is sitting around 570eur

which could mean something like this

[glossy glacier]

PSU yes, 500-600W range, dpending on the planned GPU
maybe a B board if budget allows it

A boards a very cut down, intended for office mostly

[pure karma]

motherboard is whatever but id say atleast bigger psu

[proud aspen]

meep

[pure karma]

cause most gpus are starting to reccomend 700w+

[dire igloo]

Are you really recommending to mix and match RAM kits?

I guess it's 4800CL40 JEDEC on an 8GB stick, so not much to go wrong there

[thin trout]

for jedec you can mix and match without really any negative consequences, the bad rep is just from overclocking

definitely can't get decent performance from 1x8GB DDR5 though. 2x8GB DDR5 unless you get some of the new hynix 8gbit chips is missing half of its bank groups, but 1x8 is also missing half of the bandwidth due to missing channel

[thin trout]

they say 700 because of trash psu's

[jagged snow]

And because newer gpus are more prone to things like transient spikes and a higher wattage psu will usually(but not always) be better quality overall

The reccomendation also often comes from ensuring the proper number of power connectors

There are plenty of gpus with a 350w rated tbp that still want 3x pcie 8-pins

And there are very few power supplies under 750w with those connectors

Even if they have plenty of 12v rail to do it

[languid gulch]

i had fun trying to give my old system 48gb of ram by hanging onto the original 2x8 while giving it another 2x16

and then i pushed it past 32gb usage

have never regretted making a pc component change so fast

[soft bloom]

did YT just broke and decided to not allow volume higher then 80%?

[dire igloo]

I'd rather have them stick to 1x8 and save up for replacing it with 2x16

[dire igloo]

This is going too far on the PSU imo
I'd rather have you cut cost on aesthetics (cooler) here and instead go for a good set of RAM sticks

Also: do you plan to stick with the iGPU for long?
Because any non-F Ryzen CPU will have one, the G-line CPUs just have a more powerful one

[dire igloo]

Rough draft, needs retouching on the SSDs (don't know internals) and has some headroom for aesthetics or a used GPU.
Probably would go 7600X with a basic Thermalright or Arctic 120mm single tower cooler - and then save up for a used GPU, 5700xt should be under 150€
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/mjxhHW

[twin dew]

The non-APU AM5 CPUs cannot really run Satisfactory with the IGP.
Will get around 20 FPS on all-low at full-HD without upscaling.
And that was with dual-channel RAM at 6000MT/s and tuned latencies.
Would need to retest with 1.1.

But another thing that can be used to cheap out is to go without case for start.
Just build the system on the MB box and run as is.

Ugly, but works.

7600X has 2 CU:s with 2200MHz max frequency.
8500G has 4 CU:s with 2800MHz max frequency.
8600G has 8 CU:s with 2800MHz max frequency.
8700G has 12 CU:s with 2900MHz max frequency

[proud aspen]

holllllllld uppp, wtf is a parametic selection??

[twin dew]

Probably other options with similar specs.

Or just search with requirements set

[proud aspen]

Figured it out, you just tick a few and it show- nvm he was faster

[dire igloo]

If you don't select products, this button will add a parametric from the filters you set

[twin dew]

Ok, so selection that changes as things change, based on filters set when adding.

[dire igloo]

It will always show the cheapest product that matches the criteria

The criteria being either a set of filters or a selection of products

[twin dew]

Why no love for A620 or A840?
Yes, will only have lower speed PCIe, but thats about it if otherwise fits.
Also, that selection might have overlooked cheap B650E boards.

Not sure if that differentiates between B650 and B650E.

But ok, those don't seem to exist and B650 MBs are now much more numerous than I remembered.

[dire igloo]

Might need some caution with an aftermarket GPU because it won't have the IO bracket fixed

Good idea tho

[dire igloo]

*B840
Cuz I figured at 120€, B650/B850 is cheap enough
B650E mainly differs through pcie5 m.2 iirc, maybe even 5.0 x16, generally too expensive - had it included when I picked the parametric selection for the list

iirc X870 took the place of B650E

[twin dew]

Yeah, needs more expensive PCB material.
And yes, X870 is B650E + USB4.

[proud aspen]

now time to redo my entire pcp lists bc noone ever told be about this

[dire igloo]

I also included wifi in the board picks, there are more options if we go with wired connections instead of wifi/bt

[dire igloo]

It doesn't change anything about the list.
I use it for advising because it allows me to provide you with options

[twin dew]

But if you didn't notice, and don't have free-roaming pets, think about going without case for the start to cheap out.

[dire igloo]

Like a motherboard with white accents or a bigger SSD

[dire igloo]

Still works if your free roaming pets stick to the floors and don't climb your desk

[proud aspen]

it does since i have tonnsa lists which are price focused

[dire igloo]

Yeah, you can consolidate those, at least to a degree

You can't combine lists with different platforms/sockets

[proud aspen]

no duh

[dire igloo]

Because PCPP chooses parts top to bottom.

So if you have a 12400f and a 7600x in the list, it'll pick the cheapest CPU regardless of whether that'll increase total list price through mainboard

Pick cheapest CPU from parametric
Limit coolers to compatible ones, pick cheapest
Limit mainboards to compatible ones, pick cheapest
etc

So only use parametrics for singular parts that you can freely interchange

Reworked list
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/xWkkMC

[proud aspen]

the under 600 shall now stay under XDD

[twin dew]

That 7500F is APU without the IGP enabled.

[languid gulch]

ok i have a dumb question that has nothing to do with the list itself, but it made me think of something

[dire igloo]

https://imgur.com/iYYAFyT

[languid gulch]

is there a term, in german, for mixing english & german together

like gerglish

[dire igloo]

Your filters aren't helpful

[proud aspen]

denglisch

[twin dew]

Ah, no, it is actual Raphael just with IOD IGP disabled

[languid gulch]

ok i love that

[proud aspen]

ik ik, but im just messing with it for the first time

but atleast it helps between countries depending on availability

[languid gulch]

was deutschelish too much?

[dire igloo]

Too convoluted to say

[languid gulch]

for germans?

[dire igloo]

Ideally you'd do your final list on geizhals.de so you have a bigger selection of parts to choose from

[dire igloo]

probably most people except maybe eastern Europe
It would have to be Deutschlisch which has a weird T-sh-L sequence

And Denglisch just rolls of the tongue

[proud aspen]

geizhals.de looks annoying

[dire igloo]

Some feedback on your filters:

• skip the AIO for now, save that money and get good components
• your mainboard filters are too loose, you'll end up with an underbuilt piece of circuitry
• don't go single stick RAM, you want dual channel
• for DDR5, aim for 16gb modules. 8gb ones only have half their banks filled which isn't ideal
• your SSD filter needlessly restricts selection to gen4 x4, good gen3 will beat shitty gen4 and gen5 x2 is no different from 4x4. Just remove the pcie filter and stick to nvme
• PCPP's SSD filters can't check for quality of internals, needs a manual selection
• 6500xt isn't really a good GPU, I'd rather have you check the used market
• the case filter you set is for a loose undefined marketing term, it won't really get you far
• PCPP case filters can't check for quality, another instance where you need manual picking
• your PSU filters aren't zielführend, brand doesn't really matter outside of warranty and 450w is too small for upgradability
• once again, PCPP's filters can't check for quality, this time PSUs. P450B for example isn't a good unit but there's nothing on PCPP that allows you to see that

[dire igloo]

Yeah, it's very convoluted with the amount of filters.
Once you know how to set filters and check for quality, it becomes manageable - you basically ignore all the unimportant bits

[dire igloo]

For PSUs, I know someone who built this website to help with selection.
It uses pcpp pricing and the SPL PSU tier list (community project of some people in the ZTT discord server

cheesysponge.github.io/psuTierSorter/

Another rework. Skipped cooler for now and adjusted PSU selection
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/zx8hHW

[twin dew]

But anyways, I can get performance numbers for those AM4 APUs IGP side and 7000-series non-APU IGP in Satisfactory, on dual-channel RAM.
I'm not removing a RAM stick to test single channel, but I can drop the RAM down to 4800MT/s JEDEC on the AM5 system.
AM4 is already on 3200MT/s JEDEC.

[twin dew]

AM4 Navi 7 IGP @ 3600MT/s 25-25-25-58-83 JEDEC
48 FPS in main menu on Low Full-HD.

AM4 Navi 7 IGP @ 3200MT/s 22-22-22-52-74 JEDEC
46 FPS in main menu on Low Full-HD.

Now time for late breakfast.

On DX12 with 2x8GB RAM.

[proud aspen]

and ingame?

[twin dew]

Need to do more once I have eaten.

That Main Menu was just easy comparable test scene.

AM5 RDNA2 2 CU @ 6000MT/s 32-38-38-40-50 manually tuned.
22 FPS in main menu on Low Full-HD.

Drop the protocol, so the https:// part

[rotund ice]

Tell me a better FPS / Money than this: On tori dot fi: /recommerce/forsale/item/29399141

[twin dew]

You can just post it is one, when you leave that https:// off.

[rotund ice]

www.tori.fi/recommerce/forsale/item/29399141

[twin dew]

Bad deal for that price IMHO.
And if the buyer isn't in Finland, just stupid to buy.

And "only pickup" anyways.

So if you don't live near Turku, Finland, not buyable basically.

[rotund ice]

jenny is finish

[twin dew]

Ok, no idea why then using german prices.

If true.

[rotund ice]

u mean euro?

[twin dew]

No, prices for buying stuff from Germany.

[rotund ice]

Oh i missread that xD he/she might be german

[twin dew]

40-44 FPS on 3200MT/s when turning around in new save on grass fields.
Around 36 minimum, 69 maximum when looking at sky.

Going to get nothern forest empty, and then over UObject limit save inside large factory.

33 FPS mostly, with minimum of 27 FPS in specific direction in Northern Forest empty save, with 56 FPS when looking at ground (same as on grass fields), sky is 48 FPS as there are trees in view.

Now for long wait to load that large save with too little RAM.

20-27 FPS in that save when still, with drops down to 10 FPS or so if turning too fast.

Ah, whops, that was CPU limited side, forgot to do the GPU Time only and manual conversion.

No, it is IGP limited.

But those turn stutters are from swapping.

Time for another reboot on that system and setting it back to 3600MT/s.

[proud aspen]

no??

[proud aspen]

w max

[twin dew]

3600MT/s semi-tuned RAM, same spot now 19-20 FPS.

[proud aspen]

https://url.jennytime9.net/F <- fun list i made for no reason

[twin dew]

30-33 FPS back down in the HUB with semi-tuned 3600MT/s.

[twin dew]

Just leave that https:// off and the bot won't care.

And the final partspicker url was invalid.

[twin dew]

About same 3FPS increase in empty Northern Forest save from the RAM speedup.

[languid gulch]

i really want to know why pcpp mentions if a case comes with a psu but doesn't mention if it comes with fans

[twin dew]

That 4650G with Zen2 would have limited any dGPU to around 30-35 FPS in this scene.
With unknown amount of performance lost to RAM bandwidth being shared with IGP.

But the 5500GT/5600GT have better CPU side than that 4650G.

[proud aspen]

that's 2 hours of debugging for me...

[proud aspen]

they expect you to care enough to check the specs when buying

[proud aspen]

de.pcpartpicker.com/user/jennytime9/saved/#view=y223mG

[languid gulch]

it's some info i'd love to know just as easily as so many other metrics they felt like including

[twin dew]

Ah, no, but that later direct one worked.

[proud aspen]

well, just go with montech, they always have fans

[twin dew]

But basically what to expect if you go with the minimum price AM4 system with dual-channel RAM and use the IGP.

[languid gulch]

i currently have 11 fans sitting in storage doing nothing because of policies like that 🤣

[twin dew]

So for minimal for that performance without WiFi on MB, and without SSD and PSU: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/MJTxn6
Case then optional. And 5500GT would be 12e cheaper for little less CPU performance with dGPU.

[languid gulch]

i say you blow $300 on a case like this