off-topic-tech

[maiden coyote]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_Rankine_cycle

Oh well there's not enough heat to be worth it then lol

[maiden coyote]

That's neat.. I think the way that works is you have a heat pump ( ac ) and your evaporator is on the heat source.. so it's boiling refigerant absorbing heat from the souce. then you'd boil water on the condenser and spin a turbine.

[soft bloom]

the important bit is that
1 it can occur naturally
2 isotope ratios can be affected by it
3 there are heat sources inside Earth that are not just heat storage from the time Solar system was formed

[safe trench]

miau

[bronze jasper]

its not so important. it was a rare event that happened in a blip

it requires a very specific circumstance and woudln't happen anywhere other than the crust

[soft bloom]

That's pretty much how one would conclude that life can only exist in Europe and oceans have no life beyond where you can swim in II century

[bronze jasper]

not really though

that's quite a strawman leap

[soft bloom]

Is it?

[bronze jasper]

yes. thats why i said it

[soft bloom]

But didn't you jsut take an example of something and concluded that no other mechanism could create similar outcome?

[bronze jasper]

no. i'm using a complete understanding of how criticality happens and understanding that it wouldn't occur below the crust in any molten layer

you actually were the one to find one example of something and make wild conclusions about it occuring anywhere inside earth

[soft bloom]

I am simply referring to the fcat of how little is known about Earth's inner workings.

I mean, we have big picture, but that's it. And making absolute statements is no different from fisherman in Italy making conclusion that fish only thrives in his beautiful seas, because there's no fiah from Columbia, "what is Columbia anyway?"

[soft bloom]

Hm, no
I didn't imply that exactly that happens deeper
Just that this example should break idea that Earth can only (!) be powered from inside as residual heat from billions years ago. (Not talking about outside sources aka sun)

[dire igloo]

Good ole "just asking questions" bullshittery

As much of a fallacy as a strawman

[dire igloo]

an idea that you basically made up

aka a strawman

[soft bloom]

Becase, you can't blame italian fisherman for not believing, or just allowing a thought that there are many weird fish in other parts of the world, and much deeper, nad not only fish, if he doesn't saw it, or heard of it.

[soft bloom]

So you are saying that it's not a common understanding of heat sources on/in Earth?

[bronze jasper]

when i said it would only happen in the crust, you literally accused me of claiming theres no life in the ocean

one would infer

we have a better understanding of uranium chain reactions than an italian fisherman has of columbian seas

which is entirely why the video you linked can confirm that there was a natural nuclear reactor billions of years ago

[soft bloom]

Yeah, cause in II century italians didn't know about Columbia as geographic region.
That's the an allegory meant to point out that stuff we don't know that we don't know about it is exactly that, until we go and make observation. But for that usually we need at least know we don't know something. And error commonly made is assuming we don't have something we don't know about because we have something we know we know about.

[bronze jasper]

allegory, or strawman?

[soft bloom]

Strawman implies intent to discredit.
I simply point out a flaw, i am not twisting what you said into aomething like... "Oh so you say it only happened in Africa and cannot be replicated in a lab?" Damn, i canct even strawman lol

[bronze jasper]

literally accused me of claiming life can't exist in the ocean. move along

[dire igloo]

I didn't say fuckall.
You said that there's an idea to be broken about how heat on earth only comes from residual heat or outside sources like the sun

[soft bloom]

That's pretty much how one would conclude that life can only exist in Europe and oceans have no life beyond where you can swim in II century
"how one WOULD conclude"
as in, I saw you take a hammer and break a glass, and said "oh that's how you can crack a nut too" (didn't come up with alternative way to nail)

[dire igloo]

Who said strawman implies intent to discredit?
Strawman means you invent an argument for your opposing side and disprove that.
The goal is to make a point without having to address counterpoints.

Whether or not that counts as discrediting to you, I don't give a shit.
You brought up some narrative or idea and then disproved that.
Unless that narrative/idea is an actual thing, that's a prime example for a strawman.

If you want to share cool science stuff you didn't know about, by all means do so.
But for the love of God, quit acting like everything is some kind of major breakthrough or shakeup or challenges some narrative.
Just share your cool science facts as what they are, cool science facts

[dire igloo]

That example is an ad absurdum fallacy

[bronze jasper]

yeah. natural nuclear reactors were always theorised, but that uranium mine just confirms it did happen because of the isotope ratios. its cool but its not anything breakthrough about earth's geology. The crust is such a small part of earth this reaction would not have contributed significantly as a global heat source

if you were to scale an apple up to the size of the earth, the skin of the apple would be thicker than the earth's crust is

that's a proper analogy

[dire igloo]

If you scaled a pool ball up to the size of earth, its surface would be rougher than earth

Earth has a diameter of like 13000 smth kilometers at the equator but the distance between the lowest and the highest point barely add up to 20km

[bronze jasper]

yeah. its wild how tiny the crust is relative to the whole

[dire igloo]

(Mariana's trench being 11,000 smth meters deep and Mt. Everest being 8,848m tall)

[bronze jasper]

its wild to me that james cameron researched so much about the ocean for abyss and titanic, that he just decided to go down to the bottom of the marianas trench for fun

so i considered other sources of heat on the crust like wildfire. i found a study that said one wildfire can produce a few terajoules of energy. convert this to kilowatt hours and you have many 10s of thousands of kilowatts/h.

the natural nuclear reactor produced 100kilowatts/h during while it was going critical for 3 hours at a time, and then less while it was cooling off until enough water flooded the space to facilitate the criticality once again. so, for 10,000 years, it produced far less heat than a wild fire

the sun probably warms the crust more than that natural reactor did

The gravity of the moon warping the plates of the earth probably produces more heat than that natural reactor did

[night girder]

I didn't know this. Reading up on it right now, interesting!

[bronze jasper]

yeah him an richard branson had a billionaire race to see who could get to the bottom of the sea first

[night girder]

Looking at some pictures right now. I was always wondering about the Mariana's trench.

Also, it seems we are more interested in space than the deepest points of our earth/ocean.

Which is a bit sad, because I think the ocean can be as interesting and has still some secrets to us.

Especially at that depth, creatures that live that deep must be able to live with that pressure.

[bronze jasper]

Space is easier to see. There's a lot of money being invested into ocean exploration, it's just all corporate oil drilling and trade secrets

[night girder]

Like whales ribcages, they are flexible because of the pressure, they can bend in a bit.

[bronze jasper]

subs bend a lot too. theres a funny scene in "down periscope" about it

[night girder]

I think they must bend. Else 💩

[bronze jasper]

https://youtu.be/TFpm-Jy7pHE?t=60 funnnnny movie

[night girder]

Apparantly this is a picture from James Cameron expedition

That almost looks like an alien to me 🤣

[bronze jasper]

he based a lot of avatar 2's designs on what he found i think

awww that clip i found doesn't even show the funny dive test part with the string

i've heard its one of the most accurate submarine movies out there though. worth a watch

[night girder]

Man, this is the worse sub and crew ever 🤣 Lucky it's a comedy so it works

Really? accurate?

[bronze jasper]

oddly enough yeah

[night girder]

There is two dudes ice skating on their knees

back and forth

🤣

[bronze jasper]

well like, theres some slapstick involved

[night girder]

Sorry, I know what you mean.

Humor and realism can go hand in hand, hard to know what is what sometimes though 😛

[bronze jasper]

okay i looked it up an i was misled on it's accuracy. but it does borrow a lot from reality still

[night girder]

For some reason, I think a submarine scares me more than maybe a spacerocket.

[bronze jasper]

the ocean is like a tight fist squeezing you so tight. like SO TIGHT. space is just , being wayyy to not squeezed

[night girder]

both are super deadly for humans though

[bronze jasper]

space ships have to handle squeezing between 0-1 atmosphers where subs have to handle something like 100s of atmosphers

[night girder]

Maybe it's because of that stupid playstation controller submarine that I am more skeptical

oceangate?

[bronze jasper]

lol they use xbox controllers on real submarines. it's a legitimate interface for their needs

oceangate was dumb for many other reasons

[night girder]

What do you mean with real submarines? What do you have in mind?

[bronze jasper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMLvw6UJdF0

navy figured out that all their recruits know how to use xbox controllers already, so they incorporated them

[night girder]

That doesn't control the sub it seems. But some sort of weapon system / camera.

I can't believe a military submarine is controleld by a xbox controller. I don't think they will have a few billions be only controlled by a simple controller.

[night girder]

And you are right, there were many other reasons.

But the controller was just foreboding to me 🤣

[bronze jasper]

carbon fiber is what clued me into it would be a disaster. i wasn't surprised when that happened. i was following it a bit leading up to the disaster

[night girder]

such a tragedy

and as far as I know, nothing changed so far to prevent these things? But not 100% sure.

[bronze jasper]

they shoulda done like 100 dives to shallower depths without passengers, before trusting it. especially since it was such a new approach to deep submersibles

any testing really

[night girder]

I just wished we could have prevented this somehow.

[bronze jasper]

cant prevent stupid unfortunately

[night girder]

Especially that "costumers" died. People who paid for it.

That's my main issue.

[bronze jasper]

if you outlaw stupidity, only outlaws will be stupid

[night girder]

If the sub would have imploded on it's own. I wouldn't care. But people paid. And died.

[bronze jasper]

yeh international waters though. hard to have any laws out there

[pure karma]

thats insane

looks like a beaver mixed with a butterfly

[night girder]

It scares me a bit lol.

[night girder]

Still the company was based in a country. Sure someone could come up with something to prevent this. If they want.

[bronze jasper]

the owner was insistent on doing it even after his lead engineer quit. if there were laws saying he couldn't, he would've just sold people a boat ride then sell the tickets in international waters

his clientel were millionairs. not exactly the type of people who think laws matter to them if theres a way around they can afford

[night girder]

Yeah, I know.

But millionairs or not. They didn't deserve that.

[bronze jasper]

yeah i agree. fraud sucks.

[night girder]

Eh, I should look into it.

[bronze jasper]

especially when it takes lives

[night girder]

Maybe something did change. Laws or something.

[bronze jasper]

there's at least a LOT of awareness now, and other millionares won't be so eager to get into a submersible that hasn't been tested

[night girder]

That is true.

[bronze jasper]

they'll be like "Waaaait a minute"

[night girder]

"What have we learned?" - "Don't just go on any submarine!" 🤣

[pure karma]

dailly dose of developers being stupid

subnautica edition

[bronze jasper]

especially if it has no seats and a playstation controller

[night girder]

and if everyone who made sense got fired 🤣

but they couldn't know that ofc.

[bronze jasper]

the nintendo switch has a "pro controller" which is what that means. not a console called the switch pro

[night girder]

Do we officialy know what happened to oceangate?

Like exactly?

[bronze jasper]

yeah they found it. and there are computer simulations of the event

[night girder]

aight, let me look it up

[bronze jasper]

in the futuer, people will take submersible down to see the ocean gate wreckage among the titanic wreckage

[night girder]

This simulation is brutal. Not posting it.

And some people said when it happened they didn't believe it imploded.

because of some sound they heard, another submarine picked it up or a ship with sonar.

While this simulation clearly shows, it imploded.

[bronze jasper]

at that depth it couldn't have done anything but crumple

the air woulda blubbed out tho. might've heard that expanding

[night girder]

No, I just found the video with the sound. They released.

[bronze jasper]

its the final countdowwwn

[night girder]

You hear a short "blomp". Very short and that's it.

Less than a second and it was gone. Holy fuck.

[pure karma]

rock the night

[bronze jasper]

simulation video https://youtu.be/qLavBYYFX-0

[night girder]

No 🤣

[bronze jasper]

the fish voice gets me

[night girder]

gotta respect chappelle, his jokes can have depth

[bronze jasper]

hah

[cyan crescent]

How the hell do i enter my bios? I press delete on boot and it freezes. I try to update bios using q-flash and mobo does something for like 5 seconds before turning off

[bronze jasper]

sometimes its not delete its like f10 or f11

depends on your bios

[cyan crescent]

Its delete

[night girder]

On laptops it can be F2 sometimes

[cyan crescent]

Its a desktop

This is where it gets frozen

Stupid thing is, i was in bios a couple days ago

[night girder]

What issues are you having?

[cyan crescent]

I press delete on boot to go to bios, it gets stuck here. I do nothing and it boots to windows just fine

I use the q-flash button to update bios and the mobo turns on for like 5 seconds before turning back off. Yes, i changed the file name to “gigabyte.bin” and put it on a usb drive formatted to fat32 and put it in the bios port

[flint magnet]

@pure karma

[pure karma]

i dont have a problem with any of these picks but ods are you could get better value with a diffrent GPU and SSD choice

[stray torrent]

oh i have that cpu cooler i think

took off the fan though and replaced it with a noctua one

[bronze jasper]

3060 is insane value these days imo, since the price drop, the comparably priced rx 7600 doesn't perform as well

[pure karma]

i havent kept up with low end much but iv been hearing its ehh for the past likeyear

[bronze jasper]

if you're still a 1080p gamer, it's an exciting time

[pure karma]

if your an anything else gamer its a horid time thooo

[bronze jasper]

i haven't really been a budget buyer for many yeras. i'm too old to cheap out on my favorite hobby now

[pure karma]

im not a budget gamer because my standards are too high and i love pushing games to their limits

[flint magnet]

My kids aren't old enough for me to cut loose on my hubby's lmao

[bronze jasper]

hah man with a hubby. gay.

not that theres anything wrong with that

[flint magnet]

Lmao 😂

Fuck

Hubby problems any time your getting fucked 🤣

Now technically you didn't say anything that didn't seem factual. Thank my ass it was a typo

@pure karma I wanted to ask to make sure that the gpu will actually work with that motherboard. Technically I already ordered it because the website is was using said everything was compatible but I just wanted to make sure because I am kinda figuring this all out with trial by fire, and YouTube the hell out of it.

[pure karma]

any gpu should work with any motherboard

[bronze jasper]

congrats on the kids tho. thats how i afford the high end of mid range gaming. i dont have kids

[pure karma]

the only possible issue i see here is to make sure clearance is all good

[bronze jasper]

yeah PCI-E is quite standardized these days. if you're buying one of the brand newest top of the line GPUs, you might wanna check that all the features work in the mobo, but that's not the case here

[pure karma]

since your using an air cooler so clearance with the ram could be an issue and also have no idea what case your planing on using

[flint magnet]

I've been saving a lot of money since I got ride of the wife lmao kids are expensive but a 2 timing pos cost more lmao

[bronze jasper]

yeah physical dimensions are more of a concern but low-mid cards like a 3060 are usually standard sizes. nothing oversized

i had to gut a bunch of my case when i got the 4080

[pure karma]

im not woried about the gpu im woried about clearance between the cooler and ram

[bronze jasper]

just ram it in there. thats why they call it ram.

[flint magnet]

I planning on using my old case and power supply because I got way overkill back in the day and there is less then 6 months use on it maybe 9 max

[bronze jasper]

inforrrrmer leeky boom boom down

[pure karma]

this case gives off the vibe that its probably older than i am 😂

[flint magnet]

More then likely is lol

https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-atx-mid-tower-level-10-gts-snow-edition-steel-plastic-computer-case-white-vo30006w2n/p/N82E16811133216

Its says 2013 its as older then my oldest son

[pure karma]

ehh not as bad as i tought

it gives off more like 2005 lol

the horrendous naming, the graphics, the look is all just so long lost by this point

although honestly i dont hate the look

[soft bloom]

if this isn't in Subnautica 2...
this = performant simulation actual fish swarms instead of trippy sprites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQI7y7eSUGU
well, I hope they do it even better

[pure karma]

at this rate subnautica 2 wont even release so good luck with that one

[soft bloom]

I always thought that "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" animated film was the one that 'invented' motion capture of the camera as technique for that one scene
but, as it turns out, the "Surf up" used it way more and got into theaters 2 years before that
anyway, that really helped with mocumentary perspective, together with voice acting in groups and improv, created quite a unique good mood for the product.
||I guess listening to allegedly 'surf rock' does steer recommendation a bit...||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzHrrA_QuiE

[soft bloom]

as much as I like being salty and screaming "capitalism is doomed" I want to see genuine effort being rewarded

[pure karma]

i want to see effort being rewarded to those who put it in

not those who manage it wrong

[sharp matrix]

I remember this masterpiece❤️‍🔥

[bronze jasper]

Being first in a box office motion picture probably wasn't the inception either. So many technical breakthroughs are demonstrated in animation festivals long before studios use them

https://youtu.be/5VsdKesdaKs im pretty sure blizzard was doing stuff with mapping physical camera motion to their cinematics. probably not 1-1 mocap though

[ivory rampart]

have you looked at newer gpus around the same price point?
you might be able to get a better deal than the 3060

9060 xt 8gb should cost around the same but be decently faster.
unless you are worried about the vram

[safe trench]

~~wont be skibidi toilet episode 78 ~~
||obvious shit posting||

🤣 i get it this is one of those lazy point farms but this is honestly so true
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1397840678

[flint magnet]

@ivory rampart I went with the 3060 because of the vram I looked at the 9060 but from what I was reading there was better performance for satisfactory with the 3060 because of its vram so ultimately I went with it

[ivory rampart]

yeah the vram on current low end cards is criminal

its such a shame.

both the 5060 and 9060 xt should just have been one 12gb card each

or 16, but thats wishfull thinking

[flint magnet]

Some day, some day ill build the super computer of my dreams lol 16 would have been nice

[glossy glacier]

There is a 16GB version of the 9060xt

[verbal raft]

if you could spend bit more you could get the 16GB one.

[ivory rampart]

yes but its more expensive and might be over his budged

and 16gb on a 60 tier class isnt realy required.

8 is too little
16 is too much
it should have been 12

[glossy glacier]

There is no such thing as "too much"

[verbal raft]

at least the 9060 has 16 lanes of PCIe
VS 8 lanes on the 5060 TI and any low end card from last gen

[verbal raft]

100%

[twin dew]

And you cannot do 12GB VRAM with same VRAM bandwidth.
Either you would need to have much less bandwidth, or significantly more.

[verbal raft]

just play jedi survivor
15GB of VRAM usage at 1080p without RT

[twin dew]

And the VRAM chips themselves don't cost that much.

[ivory rampart]

there is because it adds to the price. idk
unless what baldur said is true, then it might be cheaper to do 16 instead of 12?

[twin dew]

12GB vs 16GB is few tens of dollars chip price difference.

[ivory rampart]

for nvidia, but u know they would charge 10x hat to the customer

so there could be a thing as too much, if it makes the card more expensive than it needs to be

[glossy glacier]

At least AMD only asks for 50€ for 8GB more VRAM instead of Nvidias 100€ 🙃

[verbal raft]

you need a 192 bit bus or 3GB GDDR7 modules for 12GB of VRAM (unless you wanna do something stupid)
and the 9060/5060 TI dont have either

[twin dew]

RX 9060 (XT) has 128 bit VRAM bus.
For 12GB of VRAM, you would need either 96bit or 192bit VRAM bus.
Where that 96bit would gimp performance, and 192bit would make the main chip and PCB more expensive.

[ivory rampart]

well to be fair, didnt nvidia start cheapingout on the buss width 2 generations ago?

128 used to be 50 class not 60 class.

so this realy is 500% nvidias fault

[verbal raft]

to make the 9060 able to do 12GB you'd need to redesign the chip to either fit G7 or a larger bus
both expensive

[ivory rampart]

they just downgraded us

asking for more money forless product

[verbal raft]

they started "cheaping out" on BUS because VRAM chips went from being 1GB to 2GB/per chip,
so if previously a 128bit bus could support 4GB of VRAM, now it could support 8GB's

[glossy glacier]

Nvidia™ since 20 series

[twin dew]

Nah, large part is "optimizing" the VRAM performance to the GPU performance.
Where the performance for same width VRAM bus has been going up faster than GPU core performance.

Or tricks that have lessened the need for raw VRAM performance with larger and/or better caches etc.

[safe trench]

why not the 9060xt?

its so cheap (for the pc building mindset)

[flint magnet]

It was a 100 dollars more then what I paid

[soft bloom]

some of the scenes in the very beginning?
dunno, doesn't seem much like it
also, why? there's not much screentime to use whole separate tech that isn't common...
but maybe

[bold tapir]

does that mean my ssd is dead?
there are like 500 files 35mb each

nothing else uses drive

[glossy glacier]

Could be a full drive
Could also just be explorer
Explorer sucks for many small files

[wanton orchid]

if the drive isnt full you may want to "optimize" it from windows defrag ui

[bold tapir]

it isnt full, thank you i will try this

[bold tapir]

whats the alternative for explorer

[wanton orchid]

from technical and not windows bullshit standpoint : this will trigger trimming
which allow the ssd to internally reclaim its unused memory cells so it can write to them

[bold tapir]

isnt trimming made automatic since like 2000s?

[wanton orchid]

no

if it's an old ssd this may have low impact

[bold tapir]

doesnt seem old,

cheap tho

[wanton orchid]

seller announce 480TBW
so if you are getting close to that number, the ssd will have not a lot of healthy memory cell to write to

[glossy glacier]

zip the files, copy the zip, unzip
use robocopy from the commandline
use an alternate file explorer
etc

[wanton orchid]

omg, zipping then unzipping in place will only make it worse

way worse even

this is an old work around for source hdd performance problems
this is very useless and bad for ssds

you basically going to write files twice

there is no magic to unzipping, the OS read the zip file then write the uncompressed files elsewhere

[bold tapir]

where can i see my number

[twin dew]

Yeah, just bypassing how bad Windows Explorer is in copying small files.
Which usually isn't needed with SSDs that have no real seek-time anyways.

[wanton orchid]

using tools like CrystalDiskInfo

[bold tapir]

ok gonna get crystaldisk

[wanton orchid]

it's also a good software if you are inspecting disk problems anyway

it will give you what problems the ssd report

[bold tapir]

got this

[twin dew]

That is different disk, select right one from top.

[wanton orchid]

check "provisioning", did you triggered the windows optimizing ?

[bold tapir]

oh god really

[wanton orchid]

sorry, thank you

[bold tapir]

so its 16% dead?

[wanton orchid]

wtfh x12 write amplification ??

[bold tapir]

assuming its like 25% empty i have 10% left?

[wanton orchid]

^

it should be reported somewhere

[twin dew]

That is very crappy and cheap DRAMless drive.

[bold tapir]

need to replace?

[bold tapir]

whats defrag ui

ah defragmentation

[twin dew]

So might just be doing lot of extra work to actually write the data to TLC NAND it has.
When it doesn't have any completely free erase sectors, so it has to consolidate data.
And if it hasn't gotten TRIMs, might be even worse.

Windows should run that full drive TRIM once a week.

[bold tapir]

ok i did optimisation thing

[wanton orchid]

please check provisionning in the crystaldiskinfo

[bold tapir]

where do i check it

[wanton orchid]

below what you screenshot, you have a lot of actual detail

there are values showing provisioning usually

[bold tapir]

is it broken or something it says 100 everywhere

[wanton orchid]

it's common

although I agree it's hard to read

some values decrease some value increases

[bold tapir]

ah so 100 is good

so my ssd isnt dead but its crappy in general

[wanton orchid]

it does not report any provisionning use, but I think its lying
it reports -16%

[twin dew]

Depends, those actual values aren't standardized in any way.
100(%) is often "perfect" for most drives, but not always.

[wanton orchid]

you can think of it like if your ssd maximum size is now -16%

[twin dew]

No reallocated sectors.
Just that 16% of the design write life has been used, no sectors have yet hit 100% write life used.

[wanton orchid]

then why is it so slow to recollect ..

[twin dew]

Those minimum and maximum erase counts tell how often least and most written areas have been erased, which is that life limiter for writes, in hex in this case.

[bold tapir]

cuz its crappy and explorer sucks i think

[twin dew]

DRAMless SATA drive doing small writes.

[wanton orchid]

35MB files isnt really small

[bold tapir]

so i thought

[wanton orchid]

anyway sounds like after trimming it should be better

[twin dew]

So most erased flash cells have been erased 203 times, and least 58 times.

[bold tapir]

will same price m2 be better? or i need like $100 ones instead

i mean pcie m2

[twin dew]

For DRAMless SATA, no difference.
For NVMe with HBM, better.

M.2 can be both SATA or PCIe/NVMe.

[bold tapir]

yes, i mean second thing

[twin dew]

And SATA with DRAM are usually much better than DRAMless SATA ones.

[bold tapir]

makes sense

will cheap pcie m2 have dram?

[wanton orchid]

no

[bold tapir]

cuz now i know cheap sata ssd doesnt

[twin dew]

But that HBM (using main system RAM as on-drive DRAM replacement) helps a lot.

[wanton orchid]

but the price line for dram isnt really defined, you can find more expensive ssd without dram

[wanton orchid]

isnt HBM the other type of datacenter compute ram ?
HMB ?

[twin dew]

Basically as very big generalization:
DRAMless SATA -> NVMe without DRAM (almost nonexistent now) -> SATA with DRAM -> NVMe with HMB -> NVMe with DRAM.

[bold tapir]

can acronis encryption influence speeds?

[twin dew]

Yeah, sorry, HMB

[wanton orchid]

makes more sense

[bold tapir]

that acronis true image backup thing

[twin dew]

Yes, any encryption can affect speeds when encrypting or decrypting.

[wanton orchid]

yes, depending on your cpu, I did note your cpu was saturating some threads, but should not be impactful for 35MB writes usually (without encryption)
at least not THAT impactful
but if you are doing weird encryption schemes, then maybe

[twin dew]

Depends on the encryption/decryption code implementation too.

[bold tapir]

it didnt help against malware tho cuz i didnt get any yet but helped twice against windows updates 💀

[twin dew]

When done properly, not with current CPUs.
But done badly, can still cause major issues.

[bold tapir]

not average cpu intel cc150, server thing they made for nvidia

[wanton orchid]

is there any pcie/graphic card processing in background ?

[bold tapir]

i dont think they could make poor encryption algorithm in program that costs more than my rent

[wanton orchid]

they can, marketing

[bold tapir]

rx 6800 is like 10% loaded with walpaper engine

[wanton orchid]

ok so no load at all

[bold tapir]

conclusion: my ssd sucks ass, need new one with dram?

thank you guys

[verbal raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-btD63-mgE

[dire igloo]

*except in USB enclosures cuz hmb only works over PCIe

[dire igloo]

When you should care about dram:

• SATA SSD
• USB SSD

When it's a PCIe SSD and it has hmb, you're perfectly fine without dram

[bold tapir]

oh thank you

[dire igloo]

I'd rather take an E27T drive over some gen3 dram stuff

[twin dew]

Which is NVMe + HMB.

[dire igloo]

Yup, I know

Just that good HMB beats mediocre DRAM

You said it yourself, big generalizations

DRAMless NVMe kinda exists if you use an HMB drive over a USB or SATA connection

[twin dew]

They did exist way in the past, when HMB wasn't a thing yet.

So in theory drives might still exist in retail as old stock.

[dire igloo]

Or used PCs

[thin trout]

[night girder]

Huh, most AI first state how "Intriguing, interesting, fun, ..." the idea is.

and it's still doing it lol.

And it trully believes it's a good idea. Because now the player must think a head.

[safe trench]

hb- what??

[pure karma]

What?.

[wanton orchid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Bandwidth_Memory

[twin dew]

Vs NVMe HMB:

NVMe Host Memory Buffer (HMB) feature added in version 1.2 of the NVMe specification. HMB allows SSDs to use the host's DRAM, which can improve the I/O performance for DRAM-less SSDs. For example, HMB can be used for cache the FTL table by the SSD controller, which can improve I/O performance.

[safe trench]

as in the minecraft mod

[mental oriole]

AI is surely innovating stuff as we speak

[soft bloom]

https://youtu.be/nyGU-O2q9_8?si=wEKl1gfhn3eW0aZf
damn that's high

[willow pike]

fucking my god

the illusion of AI being smart shatters like glass when you prod it

even a child would know immediately that's a stupid idea

but these large language models don't know anything

[visual tree]

Speaking of AI, things are going to get a lot worse soon...

[willow pike]

ayo

[visual tree]

Apparently, AI detected Led Zeppelin song as child nudity

[willow pike]

[visual tree]

Enjoy the old internet while you can, or what's left of it

And that EU chat control is going to be a nightmare

Imagine if a father took pictures of his wife and children on the beach, sent them over whatsapp to his relatives

But AI detected that as child nudity and now that father is being interrogated in the police station....

[pure karma]

i dont understand why theres no law that ads some kidn of consequence for false actions

i cant think of a better way to phrase it on the spot but like

theres consequences for false strikes by example even if they are nerver enforced

have there be legal consequences for false or moral takedowns just like the payment processor stuff going on

[pure karma]

AI managing will go away asap

[night girder]

Happened this week. With Grok.

[visual tree]

EU chat control is going to be implemented because of idiots who keep saying "If you did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about"

[pure karma]

doesn't excuse the breach of privacy

[charred relic]

I’ve done so much wrong…

[quasi citrus]

at least grok didn't know her password for the accounts

[pure karma]

ai leaking passwords is probably inevitable

im just curious when it will happen

[bronze jasper]

that's more of bad system design which is ALWAYS a problem. If AI training data has up to date username password combinations, then something went wrong waaay higher in thechain before it got to the chatbot level. I'd put it on the level of sql injection techniques. SQL injection being a valid attack doesn't make SQL a bad tool

[dire igloo]

Thing is: that shit is just business decisions.
They don't put themselves above the law, they just refuse business.

Issue with that: they hold so much power that other parties will ultimately bend to their will to avoid being excluded.
They don't put themselves above the law. They abuse the same laws which protect everyone else

[dire igloo]

Anyone who stores passwords in any form that allows access to plain text passwords is utterly stupid and should not be handling user credentials

[dire igloo]

If passwords are stored properly in hashes, there is zero way of accessing them server-side.
You just get a bunch of random numbers and letters that don't help you get anywhere

The only thing you gain from having access to the hashed passwords is circumventing rate limitations - you can brute force the passwords locally by running your attempts through the same hashing algorithm (assuming you know which one it is) and seeing if the result matches

[bronze jasper]

also assuming you know the salting that the base code uses

[dire igloo]

tbh, I considered that to be part of the algorithm

in order to store a hash, the salting has to remain unchanged - so you can't use smth like system time

[bronze jasper]

thats cause you know netsec it seems and take that for granted. but so many backends just hash the password through the hashing algorithm raw with no added salt. so many bad developers out there

[dire igloo]

tbf, I'd take an unsalted hash over a password database any day

[bronze jasper]

yeah even with how proliffic rainbow tables are, raw hashes are better than plaintext passwords

[dire igloo]

But then again, even a salted hash can be found out.
Salting a hash is essentially just security by obscurity

[bronze jasper]

obscurity is more like using an unknown lesser used hash algorithm that's obscure. salting is further obfuscation

[ivory rampart]

he stores passwords in a plain text file

[twin dew]

Point is to make each users hash need to be cracked individually, and not as set.

That per username salt isn't really sensitive information, and is expected to be leaked at same time as the hash itself.
But instead of using generic rainbow table as you can when there isn't salt used, with salt, each salt input needs separate cracking run.

[bronze jasper]

i just proposed the 90 degree tic tac toe to chatgpt and asked it if anything changes from the player's perspective. Turns out it's just a tool and not doing the thinking. the operator has to prompt it properly to get the proper information from it

[bronze jasper]

bingo. it's a much more "hardened" database of passwords then

[twin dew]

So if there is no salt, and common algorithm with common settings is used, you can use precalculated rainbow table to go for all the passwords from the service.
No salt and uncommon set of settings, need to do cracking per service.
With salt, you need to do all the cracking per salt.

[bronze jasper]

yeah if you do a salt like the account creation date, each one having a different salt then, is best practice

[twin dew]

Basically without salt, it is worth it to run through the hashed set to certain password complexity, to get all the "easy" passwords from all the users, often using already calculated rainbow table.
With common salt, you need to recreate that rainbow table first.
And with per user salt, often not worth it except as targeted to specific accounts you are interested in.

[bronze jasper]

gotta think like a black hat to be a good white hat

[dire igloo]

I was looking at the case of a singular password hash - over the entire database, salting makes sense

[dire igloo]

Obfuscation is hardly different from obscuring.
If I have a single hash and want to reverse the password from it, it doesn't matter if it's an uncommon hashing algorithm or a common one with salting.

From the perspective of a single hashed password, a salted common hash is no different from an unsalted uncommon hash

[bronze jasper]

its demonstratably more hard than a default algorithm. stop arguing this point.

[twin dew]

Yes, no different if you want to just crack single hash, and don't have precomputed rainbow tables to help.
But neither supposition is true in reality.

Everyone always wants to use precomputed rainbow tables, even with single password, if possible.
And almost no-one is interested only in single hash from leak of service.

[bronze jasper]

the cases when people mock security by obscurity are when things like using mac or linux are lauded because it's more obscure than windows.

"just security by obscurity" is actually a very naive thing to say because good practices are often obscuring what's available to the hacker, which is a good strategy

[dire igloo]

You have a hashed password in front of you.
You want to get the unhashed password from that.

What difference does it make in this specific scenario whether the algorithm itself is unknown or the salting of it?

[bronze jasper]

baldur explained it in plain english above

[dire igloo]

Precomputed rainbow tables only work if you know what algorithm was used.
The attacker not knowing how a part of the security system works at least to me constitutes as the definition of security by obscurity

[twin dew]

And you cannot crack any hash without knowing which algorithm was used with what settings?

[bronze jasper]

you can get rainbow tables for common passwords for any algorithm, and if a common salt is used, you just calculate the rainbow table once more for the common passwords and phrases

[dire igloo]

And that's my point: if you don't know the algorithm, you can't tell if it's an uncommon unsalted algorithm or a common salted one

[bronze jasper]

i'm just repeating what baldur said though

[twin dew]

And point was that salt is always with the hash.
So if one is leaked, the other one will be too.
And almost certainly if you get access to the user data table, you can get access to the code doing the hashing on login, to determine the hash and settings.

[bronze jasper]

its generally accepted in the network security community that saving unsalted hashes is a bad practice. i'm not sure why anyone would argue in favor of them

[dire igloo]

I'm not

[twin dew]

But point of both common salt, and per user salt, is to make the actual mass exploitation of the leaked hash data much more costly in terms of computing power needed for cracking significant amount of users.

[bronze jasper]

which to my original point, of course bad practices will happen with AI tools, because developers still insist on doing bad practices regardless of the tools they have available

[dire igloo]

I'm arguing that for a single password, an unknown hash is no different from an unknown salt

Which is true as Baldur elaborated above

[twin dew]

And point is that that doesn't matter in real life.

[bronze jasper]

the vast majority of attacks are bulk

[twin dew]

And point of that per-user salt is to turn that bulk cracking into per-user cracking.

[bronze jasper]

unless you're a millionaire that controls a significantly valuable system, a targeted attack is very unlikely

[dire igloo]

If we go back to the original case, that kinda does matter - if an AI system has access to a user's hashed password, that's a singular case.

It means that there's general access to the entire DB tho, so it kinda depends how the AI access is built

[twin dew]

And for common salt is to turn using generic rainbow table to needing to generate salt specific rainbow table.

[bronze jasper]

yeah the fictional scenario with AI has never happeened and will already widely be considered to be bad practice. do not give your chatbot access to the authentication database

[dire igloo]

The whole discussion started from bad practice regarding AI system access

[bronze jasper]

it started when i saw someone making up a scenario about how AI will leak passwords, and i elaborated on why that isn't an AI problem and is just a bad system design problem as usual

[dire igloo]

But yeah, this was false, I wasn't aware of rainbow tables.
Hashing alone doesn't make the passwords inaccessible

[willow pike]

https://youtu.be/gKicRxa1f0c

[night girder]

Wow. You did exactly Again what I did 🤣

#off-topic-tech message

[visual tree]

https://youtu.be/x3bPY6i8vJE

[sterile plinth]

what's a reliable way to change the GUID of a partition and update the windows bootloader config to point to it?

[glossy glacier]

honestly? don't go that way

[visual tree]

Speaking of partitions, I recently found my first USB stick I bought. It has 128 MB

It has 2 separate partitions and can't merge them for some reason but don't really care. Can't really do anything with 128 MB these days lol

[sterile plinth]

I am trying to move my windows partition to another drive. To do that, im cloning the windows EFI and C partitions over to my 2nd drive. The problem is that both drives will have a copy of the windows installation with the same GUID

[visual tree]

And 128 MB stick was really expensive at that time I bought it

[sterile plinth]

which will cause conflict

[night girder]

I am sooooo happy I got YT to help me out for this.

Also, why the fuck are there so many videos, of people "teaching" how to press F5.

[sterile plinth]

laptop keyboards need FN

[night girder]

I think I am going to make a YT series. A video for every button.

[night girder]

That will be my next series. After I done regular keyboard.

[sterile plinth]

if you buy a laptop/ non full keyboard for the first time in your life nobody really tells you what the Fn key does

[night girder]

And I should put an add in after the first 2 seconds. Videos will only be 5-10 seconds anyway.

[night girder]

Unless you read the manual ...

[sterile plinth]

who reads a manual lol

[night girder]

✋

[sterile plinth]

be honest did you read your laptop's manual the first time you pressed an f5 key in your life

someone else just tells it to you

if you dont have that somebody else, you look it up online

[night girder]

Nah, I learned to read manuals. As a kid I was stupid. As an adult, I am still stupid, but less stupid lol.

[glossy glacier]

just copy the entire drive and then boot off of it
if everything works just delete the old drive/partition
also iirc the C partition always has the same GUID

[sterile plinth]

cant, 1st drive is 1024gb 2nd drive is 1000gb

Clonezilla cant clone to smaller drives

[night girder]

Speaking of one who said I should read manuals... incomming!

[sterile plinth]

unless you have another suggestion for cloning software

[twin dew]

No, never the same.
Not even EFI partition, EFI just has special additional identifier in addition to GUID.

Normal Windows partitions don't even have that, just that the EFI partition contents refer to specific GUID.
Which is the problem, if there are two partitions with same GUID in same system, all hell breaks loose.

[glossy glacier]

i know the recovery always has the same GUID
i think the C partition too

[twin dew]

No, again, identifiers, not primary GUID.

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/catfix-funny-automation-gif-5213389500576965188

I think I might order a bird instead of messing with AHK.

With a mechanical keyboard, and sensitive keys, this actually might work.

[twin dew]

There is the GUID, then there is the format type, and then there is additional "GUID type" identifier for usage with fixed agreed codes for things.

[sterile plinth]

What should I do, then?

Finding software that edits the guid of C drive in the windows bootloader config is not really easy

[glossy glacier]

double checked my script and yeah, its gpt type not GUID that has to be the same, my bad

[sterile plinth]

and it still is a risky operation

[twin dew]

Because that is done with MS tools?
So no-one has coded alternative ones.

[glossy glacier]

did you try? might just be a difference in manufacturer calculation/listing

[twin dew]

BCDEdit

[sterile plinth]

yeah, i did try

[twin dew]

And with that you would normally just shrink the last partition so it ends before 1000GB mark.

And then expand it again on the new disk.

[sterile plinth]

what Xeet has suggested was to clone the entire drive

A drive-to-drive clone from a bigger to smaller drive can't happen (with clonezilla)

[twin dew]

Yes, and to clone 1024GB drive to 1000GB happens by shrinking that last partition on the 1024GB disk to end before 1000GB mark.

And then Clonezilla will happily clone the drive, as long as the size difference is unused.

[sterile plinth]

and have the last 24 gigabytes be empty space?

I see

[twin dew]

Yes, better to make it more than the minimum.

[pure karma]

i only read the manual for legos tbh

[sterile plinth]

and after cloning my 1st disk's contents to my 2nd's, I immediately delete the 1st disk's C partition on gparted before it boots up and fucks up the guids?

[glossy glacier]

physically remove it first/unplug it

[twin dew]

Or change the GUIDs on one disks partitions before rebooting.

[sterile plinth]

thats never a fun experience

[sterile plinth]

deleting should work, I think its impossible for a cloned drive to be unbootable anyway, right?

[glossy glacier]

it is still bootable after a clone, you did not change it after all

[sterile plinth]

that's nice

i guess ill start shaving off space

[glossy glacier]

oh, and yeah, there is a chance the target is unbootable

make sure the clone works before deleting the source, thats why i recommend uninstalling/unplugging it

[twin dew]

Or like I said, just change the disk and partition UUIDs for the old drive while still in that cloning OS.

With partition editor of your choice.

[sterile plinth]

alright, gparted should be able to do it

[sterile plinth]

btw just so that i know, what is the absolute worst case scenario if I accidentally boot with 2 same UUID partitions on the 2 drives

[twin dew]

So "Unique partition GUID"s seem to be changeable with almost anything...
But cannot find how to change the "Disk GUID" too...

[sterile plinth]

i dont think that's necessary, clonezilla probably doesnt change that either

[twin dew]

Point was that it is "disk" identifier in the GPT in LBA1 of the drive.
Which gets copied, and should be unique too and not shared by two drives.

And then there are the Type GUIDs and Unique GUIDs of each partition, where the unique ones also need to be changed, but that is easy.

But haven't found right search terms to find how to change that Disk GUID, as just brings up how to change the partition unique guids.

[sterile plinth]

hum

well, hopefully it doesnt cause too big of an issue

[sterile plinth]

oh, and one last thing, after cloning the drive and wiping out everything other than the C partition, I still need to move it to the start of the drive (change its offset) which many times causes issues booting

is there any easy way to prevent/easily do away with these

[twin dew]

That was with MBR type and classic BIOS boot.
Which worked with LBA offsets.

Not issue with UEFI booting.

[sterile plinth]

that's great

[glossy glacier]

speaking of disk cloneing, gonna have to figure out the best way to switch around two OSes on two disk, OS A from disk A to disk B and OS B from disk B to A >.>

[twin dew]

"gdisk" can randomize both disk GUID and partition unique GUIDs.

linux text mode program

[sterile plinth]

i hope its installed by default in the gparted enviroment

since its gnu and all

[sterile plinth]

do both of them span the whole disk

[twin dew]

Yes, at least in current version.

[glossy glacier]

yes, and i don't have a third in the required size available

[twin dew]

From gparted.org livecd content listing.

[sterile plinth]

hmm

If a software could do this it would be using your ram as a buffer probably

I cant really point to anything though

[glossy glacier]

Probably gonna try doing a dd image into my nas and back

[sterile plinth]

btw, how has yall's experience with windows 11 been

I havent tried it just yet, I'm still skeptical because i usually avoid change

the WSL stuff looks pretty cool though

[pure karma]

9/10 if you ignore all the ai and spyware

[verbal raft]

it was trash
bloatware everywhere

[sterile plinth]

cant you disabl eall that

[pure karma]

not edge lol

[willow pike]

https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

[glossy glacier]

Depends on where you live

[glossy glacier]

For me, after some getting used to it, it made more "fun" to use than 10.
It had some problems in the beginning but was otherwise very stable.
I think my EU/German copy was spared most of the forced bloat, so I got lucky.
All the AI stuff at the horizon and the miss management from Microsoft made me switch to Linux a few months ago

[sterile plinth]

i have switched to linux for periods but it never sticked to me since i play a lot of games

I am planning to upgrade to w11 soon though, is the German copy a different ISO file, or does your german IP give you less bloat during the online installation of windows?

[glossy glacier]

a different iso and our laws stopping most of the stuff I think
EU laws allow uninstalling most stuff too

And gaming is hugely dependent on the games you play
MMO PvP with anti-cheat? Windows only choice.
Most other games? Mostly work fine (thanks valve!)

[wanton orchid]

for anything not mm and without stupid "anti cheat"
it basically works now

the argument that it's hard to setup makes less sense now that you have to try multiple times to make it work on vanilla windows too
because anyway games and windows are shit

[glossy glacier]

Anti-cheats started fighting themself. Time for a seperate vminstall per game

[mental oriole]

Pretty much

[bronze jasper]

with the new bf6 beta, users were required to shut down valorant's anticheat in order to run bf6. a lot of "gaming journalists" said that ea was forcing players to uninstall valorant to play battlefield, but that was just clickbait sensationalism as usual. you only had to close it.

[night girder]

In the old days, games used generic anti cheat, sometimes you only needed to install 1 which could run for multiple games. This elevated the problem of AC suspecting eachother.
But it has drawbacks, like it's a single vector of attack, so once AC is bypassed, a lot of games lose their protection.

[dire igloo]

Biggest bullshit I've seen are EAC games with Linux support disabled

[bronze jasper]

it's because publishers don't want to have to field support tickets from linux users that are probably having issues local to their own distro and system, rather than an issue with the way the game is made.

still is bullshit though. These decisions come from high up in executive offices, not the actual developers

"officially supporting linux" is a huge bag of worms tbh

[bronze jasper]

i can't remember a time when there was ever one universally used anticheat. it was less needed though "in the old days" becasue games allowed the community to host their own servers. players were more invested into individual servers and mods/admins had much fewer servers to monitor for cheaters. if a server didn't have moderators on it then people would play it a lot less.

[night girder]

punkbuster?

[bronze jasper]

punkbuster and vac existed at the same time

and that wasn't generic either. it was a branded product that developers could license

[night girder]

Generic enough that I could play America's Army and Return to Castle Wolfenstein without issues.

[bronze jasper]

i still say the best anticheat is human eyes on player cams, though there are too many concessions for a publisher to make for us to get back to that. very few companies release dedicated servers anymore

[mental oriole]

player cams... nope.

[bronze jasper]

lol why? is that some invasion of their privacy bs? are you thinking i mean webcams?

[dire igloo]

If you don't then I have no clue what you mean

[mental oriole]

Depends what you mean by player cam.
In game camera, how would you monitor that either way?

[pure karma]

By moderator

[dire igloo]

Would love to see eye tracking utility in pro games

[bronze jasper]

player cams are nothing new. i mean viewing what the player sees on their screen.

[dire igloo]

Give me some player pov with eye tracker info

[mental oriole]

So everyone has to stream the game to play it?

[dire igloo]

Ah, so human review of suspected cheater gameplay

[dire igloo]

You just get sent a gameplay clip and need to say yes, no or unclear

[night girder]

you mean spectating?

[dire igloo]

If enough people say yes, banned

[ivory rampart]

no its just in engine representation of the gameplay

[bronze jasper]

no. the server has the all the data for where the player is looking and moving already. player cams are in TF2 and they're old standard design by that point

[ivory rampart]

not actual screen recording

[dire igloo]

No, review of suspected gameplay

[night girder]

Just spectating already works 🤷‍♂️ I play a few games where server admin spectate and kick/ban cheaters.

[dire igloo]

Like a replay file

[night girder]

Really depends on type of game though.

[dire igloo]

Games have just become too big for this to be feasible

[bronze jasper]

yeah spectating mode can use player cams. sometimes it uses fixed cams. they're less used these days because it became a trend for people to watch playercams of the enemy team and then call out positions over ventrillo

[ivory rampart]

not realy possible on larger games.
there are way too many people playing and making reports to view every suspected cheater

[dire igloo]

I remember LoL having a system where you could watch suspicious gameplay from other matches and issue an opinion

[bronze jasper]

yeah that's why it works best on community servers with moderators specific to that server

[dire igloo]

You can still have automatic detection outside the kernel and add those systems on top

[night girder]

Yeah, I've encountered such systems also. I had to view players who were accussed and we were the court lol. If enough people found them guilty for griefing they get put in the toxic pool of players to play along themselves. So the system just tried to put them in their own toxic little community. Sort of jail.

[dire igloo]

Could also add an automatic analysis of suspected gameplay

And then human review

[pure karma]

Thats generally how its employed

and then miz of moderator and community reviewing of the replays

[ivory rampart]

well no, its kinda moving to "hm kernel level access to your pc please. and an image of your government ID on top"

[mental oriole]

Rather not play that game then :)))

[bronze jasper]

i've long thoguht that the internet requires licensing to drive on, much like roads do. but also, allow people to use certain devices on the internet unlicensed, sorta like how bikes are allowed on roads

[dire igloo]

Usability of those systems goes down with centralized servers

[bronze jasper]

i dont think it'll be implemented in the ideal way i'm thinking though. i'm a big idealist

[ivory rampart]

does not sound good even if properly implemented

[dire igloo]

You might also get to the point of cheaters ruling on fellow cheaters

[night girder]

We all know no system is perfect.

[bronze jasper]

drivers requiring licenses probably didn't sound good when people were confronted with the new idea, but i couldn't imagine unlicensed roads these days

[dire igloo]

Also, they were largely in place when cheating wasn't yet as advanced

[bronze jasper]

oh wait, yeah i could. india traffic cams

[ivory rampart]

its not even remotely close to the same.

driving bad endangers other people

[dire igloo]

German dashcam footage

[ivory rampart]

me going online endangers noone

[bronze jasper]

interneting bad endangers other people. just look at swatting or cyberstalking

[night girder]

well it can endanger people. Like swatting of content creators.

[bronze jasper]

^

[night girder]

Am I saying that right?

[bronze jasper]

you're saying that right

[ivory rampart]

no its not the same.

driving bad is a lack of skill.

"bad interneting" requires bad intent

[dire igloo]

Kinda does, but indirectly.
Video games are a common place to escape reality.
Ruining that option can lead people to seek other coping mechanisms.

Very long stretch tho

[dire igloo]

Misinformation

[bronze jasper]

not really. swatting is a real thing that happens

[night girder]

yes

[ivory rampart]

if you drive without a license, you are a danger even with good intention.

to be a threat to others online, you have to actively do that

its not the same at all

[night girder]

bunch of viewers who get upset or like to troll and call the cops on you in the US is no joke.

The cops come in hard and armed sometimes.

[dire igloo]

It doesn't. You can be incompetent online and have negative IRL impacts.
Example: public posts about parties on Facebook that had people come over to trash those places

[ivory rampart]

you dont swat people on accident.
you dont stalk on accident
you dont actively spread misinformation on accident

[dire igloo]

You being reckless can give malicious people the ammo they need

[ivory rampart]

thats still not anywhere close to what driving without learnign it

its a godawfull comparison

[night girder]

I am only arguing that swatting is real and dangerous. I am not saying it's the same as bad driving or anything else.

[bronze jasper]

eh i think that you can be a danger to others without intending it. like, i don't think conspiracy theorists want to learn the misinformation they pick up from qanon. but they do and then spread it. anti vaxxers would have a lot less spread power if the internet wasn't available to them. and unvaccinated people have put 1000s in danger. even killing some

antivaxxers think they have good intentions even

[ivory rampart]

the internet needs to stay open and anonymous, anything else would be a literall hellscape

[dire igloo]

I see their point:
You're not a danger to others online unless you have malicious intents

Swatting, doxxing, etc requires bad intent
Tho there are still cases of harmful online activity without bad intent

[bronze jasper]

parts of the internet should remain anonymous. i don't think social media should be anonymous. i think that's inviting psychopaths to operate in the field

there's somethign to be said about social fabric and trust

[dire igloo]

You absolutely can spread misinformation without malicious intent tho.
If you believe it to be true, you'd think you're spreading facts

[ivory rampart]

no, people that are completely doxed on social media still behave like psychopaths

never stoped them

[bronze jasper]

a lot of doxxers think they're acting for the greater good

like i was saying, roads require licensing to drive on, but not to walk on or ride a bike

[ivory rampart]

there is a line between believing something and mentioning it here or there and running a misinformation campain.

[bronze jasper]

i woudln't mind seeing something like that for interneting too

but also, i don't think the current efforts are going towards my "ideal vision" either

[ivory rampart]

i would go to war to not see that happen

[dire igloo]

You being reckless with your info online can absolutely harm people IRL.
If a friend tags me in their Instagram post, people will be able to find me even if I made damn sure there is no IRL info about me online

[bronze jasper]

probably not. you'd go to domestic terrorism at most. war requires an army

[night girder]

So you mean, for just general surfing on the internet, you don't need a "license".
But if you want to create a website or be a content creator, you do?

So that depending on your activity on the internet, you need a license and proof you are able to do that?

[dire igloo]

The internet is a hellscape already, lol
The only safe spaces I've seen were invite-only communities

[night girder]

Sounds like a slippery slope to me.

[bronze jasper]

something like that. i haven't really boiled it down to specifics though. i'm no civic leader

every effort of governance could be a "slippery slope"

[ivory rampart]

just opens the gate for unprecedented cencorship

one further step towards 1984

[bronze jasper]

we already regulate so many facets of society, like roads

[dire igloo]

There still needs to be anonymous Social Media for people to use an alt account for venting about their life to strangers

[bronze jasper]

lol most people who do the whole "literally 1984" thing haven't even read 1984

[ivory rampart]

i got bored halfway through

i didnt finish it

[bronze jasper]

the movie is good

[dire igloo]

You're not running a misinformation campaign tho.
You're fighting the "misinformation" out there by spreading what you believe to be truths

[ivory rampart]

i mean thats kinda freedom of expression.
if i cannot promote alternatives to what the government thinks is true, then its just over

[night girder]

To be honest, @bronze jasper, it's already kinda happening. In the UK you need identification I believe for +18 websites.

[dire igloo]

Let's not pretend that fascists and censors care about existing legislation or lack of tools

[night girder]

So that's somehow regulating activities on the internet by proof.

[bronze jasper]

yeah. you needed id to buy adult vhs like 40 years ago too

[mental oriole]

EU is next with chatcontrol. Break encryption alltogether because protect the children.

[night girder]

VPNs skyrocketed 😄

[dire igloo]

And enter adult theaters before that

[mental oriole]

Can't wait for every biz to leave eu because they say fuck off.

[ivory rampart]

im gonna switch to signal for private chats
eu can try getting in, but they wont

[bronze jasper]

the internet was actually regressive in that regulation and i'm not sure it was a good thing. but that's a whole different bag of worms to discuss

[dire igloo]

Mr. Rodgers helped save the porn industry
(by publicly advocating for Sony in a court case that was aiming to ban VHS)

[night girder]

So it has begun. The downfall of the free internet 🤣

[bronze jasper]

unless somoene invites eu in because their contact information was saved as "totally trustworthy guy"

[dire igloo]

They can tell signal to follow their rules or to fuck off and refuse service in the EU

[dire igloo]

It's been happening for years now, it hasn't just begun

[bronze jasper]

it started much earlier. news groups were so much less regulated than something like discord or facebook

[mental oriole]

This pretty much.

[ivory rampart]

there are always workarounds

[night girder]

Where did it happen you needed ID to do something on the internet?

[dire igloo]

Who's saying that that's the beginning?

[bronze jasper]

back when the internet was only accessible by university students, you'd need some sort of university id

[night girder]

No, you said. It's been happening for years.

[dire igloo]

YouTube and Twitter have both asked me for age verification before

[night girder]

Like giving your ID is a whole nother level.

[bronze jasper]

and then AOL launched their usenet service

Eternal September began

[mental oriole]

And there is plenty more stuff (specially related to the manga scene)

[dire igloo]

That I agree with - but that's not the beginning of the downfall. It's just another step

[mental oriole]

Not that I care per say, but with the recents of visa and mastercard I've learned they started years ago nuking stuff.

[bronze jasper]

so much is already associated to an ID anyways. Cellphone numbers. Credit card numbers. Steam accoutns can't be transfered via policy. It's all ID regulated just not by governments. Governments are easier to keep in check these days than corporations are

Occupy wallstreet police response was more oppressive than the national gaurd deployed to LA was. Facts

many people don't even remember #occupy because it was smushed out by the corporations that control the signal

[mental oriole]

Steam account transfer kind of make sense, because if you could just give your account to someone they'd lose on revenue.

[bronze jasper]

it makes sense for steam but it's anti consumer. people should be able to sell what is theirs

[mental oriole]

And you accepted the license agreement.

[bronze jasper]

oops

[mental oriole]

:)))

I agree though.

[dire igloo]

Remember Jan 6?

[bronze jasper]

allowing digital license transfers would revolutionize the electronic software market so much. liberty and justice for alllll

[bronze jasper]

the police response was pretty tame comparitively

all those people got presidential pardons

[dire igloo]

That's my issue with most of this tbh, corporations can just introduce their own rules.
As long as they don't go against the law, they can request anything from you - you're free to refuse, but they'll just not serve you then

And that's the actual power they hold. Threatening a refusal of service

[mental oriole]

Yup.

[night girder]

that's why we have initiatives like stop killing games

[mental oriole]

I only goes so far though.

But it's a start.

[dire igloo]

When people thought up the idealized free market, they just conveniently dismissed the possibility of a single party being able to threaten a refusal of service

Consumers should not be dependent on a company staying in business with them

Refusal of service should not be something you threaten consumers with

At the absolute most, it should be a safety mechanism for businesses to protect against harmful consumers

[dire igloo]

I doubt they knew of the network effect either, let alone accounted for it

[bronze jasper]

yeah a completely free and unregulated market has no immunity to a parasite taking it over

[sterile plinth]

I tried this today, and clonezilla still seems to refuse the clone

the 1st drive has a good 30gb unused

[twin dew]

Ok, too bad.
Could just use raw dd then.

if you do, remember to set bs=1M or higher, so it doesn't do it one LBA at a time.

[sterile plinth]

I will use this command, looks promising enough

dd if=/dev/nvme0n1 of=/dev/nvme1n1 bs=1024M oflag=sync status=progress

I'm guessing it will just give me an out of bounds error when it reaches the last 24 gigabytes? (Which I can ignore)

[twin dew]

that oflag isn't needed, you don't want synchronize.
And that would try to copy 1GB at a time.

1 megabyte at a time is plenty.

[sterile plinth]

Isn't that faster?

[twin dew]

that 1M

[sterile plinth]

in general you want to do big writes at a time, don't you?

[twin dew]

It would read 1GB into RAM, then write it to the other drive, then synchronize.
With bs=1M, without that sync, it will read 1MB, write 1MB, as constant process.

That block size just needs to be large enough to be larger than the erase block size with SSDs.

[sterile plinth]

what I meant is, what makes 1M block size faster than 1gb

[twin dew]

With HDDs, that 1M size was near optimal.

[twin dew]

Too much data in flight with 1GB, and with Sync added each drive is idle while the other one is working.

Because DD would read 1GB, and ONLY then try to dump that 1GB as one write to the second drive.

[sterile plinth]

i see, so by doing little at a time it keeps a consistent pace

[twin dew]

dd if=/dev/nvme0n1 of=/dev/nvme1n1 bs=1M status=progress

[twin dew]

Asks drive to read 1 megabyte at a time, with queue of requests.
And ask second drive to write 1 megabyte at a time, with queue of requests.
that sync flag would remove that queuing.

[sterile plinth]

I read somewhere it's good to fstrim the target drive to empty it before doing the clone, I'll do that too

[twin dew]

sync only matters to protect against power losses.

[twin dew]

Yeah, so the target drive knows it is completely empty at start, so it can use any cells and only does minimal amount of erases, if any.

[sterile plinth]

If I use dd for windows to do this, could I use my computer like normal while the cloning is happening

Or do the Io operations slow the system down completely

[twin dew]

But point why that 1 megabyte block size has been the recommendation for long time, is that it is large enough to basically get full performance from any drive, and small enough to still get full performance on any drive without the drive having issues with too large size.

[twin dew]

Never try to clone partition that is mounted read-write.

You get broken file system if you do.

[sterile plinth]

Oh you're right, data might get changed while I'm reading it

[twin dew]

Yeah, file system metadata wouldn't be from same state for whole drive.

[languid gulch]

has anyone heard any reliability reviews/ratings of the new absolutely stupid 26TB+ sized spinning rust

[willow pike]

my worry is such huge drives are so slow relative to their size they're likely to break if you suspect they're getting old and try to back it up

[languid gulch]

yea, like having a shed so big you can't fill it up before it starts to rot 🤣

[twin dew]

Just having one drive redundancy is bad idea with HDDs these days, if you care about the data.

[mental oriole]

Bigger isnt always better. You need to take cache sizes and drive block sizes into account.

[languid gulch]

so are datacenters largely not using those huge HDDs?

[pale flame]

hi

[twin dew]

No, going just with more redundancy.
So they can take one or more drives failing and then still be able to deal with read errors on another.

[pale flame]

i want to talk with somebody

[twin dew]

So for example not using RAID-5, but RAID-6, or with ZFS not using RAID-Z1, but -Z2 or -Z3.
Or various versions of RAID-10 with more than 2 drives per mirror etc.

[languid gulch]

yeesh

[twin dew]

Same even with smaller drives in 10TB size range etc.

[glossy glacier]

Single or dual head?

[languid gulch]

oh just in general

since my external 8tb dropped dead, i'm mildly nervous about my now oldest drive

wondering if i should go for a big fat drive or a smaller one that has a better reputation

[glossy glacier]

I see. Yeah if they are not in some kind of raid, stick to the smaller ones

[twin dew]

Planning to get 6x 4/6TB drives in RAID-Z2 for my own NAS once I can afford that.

[visual tree]

My NAS has been showing hdd bad sector warning for one of the drives but somehow it's still working lol

I have RAID mirroring so in the worst case, only one of the drive will go out soon

Theoretically, both drives could go out at the same time but that's a very rare scenario IRL and I'm willing to take a risk

[pale coral]

RAID is not a backup imo, if you have a failing drive it's going to spread bad data to the other disk.

RAID is to increase server reliability & mean time to failure of a node. My personal backups do a disk health check then backup every day, better to use a drive as an actual backup than put it in an array.

[twin dew]

That is the point of ZFS and BTRFS with actual data checksumming and integrated multi-drive functionality too.
But still not backup.

Or combination of Storage Spaces and ReFS on Windows.

[pale coral]

++ZFS, haven't seen that acronym in a decade since I went a non-network path lol

[visual tree]

I mostly use NAS for storing data even though NAS offers much more than just data storage. Not sure If I should pay for google drive at this point since getting new hard drives and a synology NAS soon will cost me as much as paying for google drive (2 TB) in 5 years

*under the assumption I get fiber soon

[glossy glacier]

A failing drive should not "spread" Bad data. That what partity is for

[twin dew]

Some bad RAID implementations have known to not check which data is right one which one is wrong in all cases correctly.

Including that Windows Storage Spaces.

[willow pike]

zfs is magic

[charred relic]

I’m not anti vax but if a doctor slipped me that shit

I would have literally killed them

By that shit I mean Covid vax

[bronze jasper]

if you have to say something like "i'm not antivax but i would murder people over the covid vax" then you're probably actually antivax

"i'm not anti science but i would murder people if they put teach my kid the round earth theory"

"i'm not a bigot but ..... "

[willow pike]

-# what the fuck

[verbal raft]

this comment is so out of leftfield its insane lmao

[sterile plinth]

@twin dew done with dd, but the partition table doesn't really seem to exist

[twin dew]

Refresh that, or close and reopen it.
Or might be bugged because of those identical IDs causing Linux to freak out.

what does command line blkid say?

[sterile plinth]

Fdisk says the disk uuid is 0x000000

that's obviously off

[twin dew]

What copy command did you use?

[sterile plinth]

sudo dd if=... of=... status=progress bs=1M

[twin dew]

point was to see the device names specifically.

[sterile plinth]

/dev/nvme1n1 and /dev/nvme0n1

The 2 block devices

The 2nd one was the input of course

[twin dew]

nvme0n1 to nvme1n1?
Then see what that gdisk /dev/nvme1n1 says?

Or like that fdisk shows for that drive, that the GPT is seen as invalid and would be fixed by running fdisk /dev/nvme1n1 then just writing.

Without changes.

[sterile plinth]

alright, fdisk does recognize 5 partitions it seems

Using the i command it allows me to see info about each one, nothing seems inherently wrong

[twin dew]

Yeah, it was just that the full GPT disk size is/was invalid, as it said the last LBA is the end of the larger disk.

If you look at that red line in the fdisk -l pic

[sterile plinth]

It does say it was corrected by a write though

[twin dew]

As long as the last partition end LBA is smaller than that disk end LBA, all is fine.

[twin dew]

For which you needed to open that fdisk for the drive, and then write.

It doesn't do it until you tell it to.

w to write and exit.

p to see the changes before.

[sterile plinth]

Um, I just did fdisk -l

I'm not inside fdisk

so I think it automatically did the write for me

Since it said "will be corrected"

Maybe a 2nd restart?

[twin dew]

That -l shouldn't have done a write.

run "fdisk /dev/nvme1n1", then use l command inside, then p command inside, and then if the changes seems fine, use w

[sterile plinth]

Done, not much changed

[twin dew]

but does blkid and/or fdisk -l now show the partitions?

or lsblk

[sterile plinth]

no, in fact if I enter fdisk a second time it shows the same mismatch

Maybe "will" implies it is scheduled for the next system reboot? I will try that

[twin dew]

Did that p inside fdisk say it would do any changes?

[sterile plinth]

also getting this on gparted

[sterile plinth]

the p command in fdisk lists partitions

and the l command lists all available filesystems

[twin dew]

Ah, sorry, wrong one then, moment.

[sterile plinth]

Can't find one which shows changes

[twin dew]

Ah, yeah, there isn't.

[sterile plinth]

Anyway fdisk still says stuff about the mismathc

[twin dew]

But I did ask you to see what that gdisk says.

[sterile plinth]

Gdisk did recognize all 5 partitions from the start

[twin dew]

Which is GPT edit utility.

But doesn't complain about size mismatch?

[soft bloom]

So, today PSU decided to be more naughty
It stayed off the grid for like 8 hours
And it didn't do anything when power returned and power button pressed
Like no sound at all
And only after trying all permutation off "connect grid, toggle switch on psu, press power button" a couple times it finally came to life

[sterile plinth]

It does give me a lot of potential fixes

[twin dew]

Yeah, so seems GPT uses last LBAs for secondary copy of GPT, and those are now missing, as they didn't fit.
So the first GPT needs to be adjusted and new secondary ones created.

What does r menu say? (recovery and transformation)

But seems the right one is x for expert, then e to move the stuff to current disks end.

[sterile plinth]

You mean, which options it provides to me?

[twin dew]

Yeah, for three of the four points.

[twin dew]

Ah, yeah, sorry, was reading through the man page, and that x (expert mode), then e (move backup GPT to current disk end) is the right step, and is suggested as three of the four points.

[sterile plinth]

Alright, let me start with that

[twin dew]

Then need to see if it still complains about that third point or not.

[sterile plinth]

Okay done that, now I will write changes with w

lsblk shows the partitions

Gparted does too

that's good, I now only need to change uuids

[twin dew]

And now you want to use that gdisk on nvme0n1, then x, f

f

Randomize the disk's GUID and all partitions' unique GUIDs (but not their partition type code GUIDs). This function may be used after cloning a disk with another utility in order to render all GUIDs once again unique.

And check that verify again on the nvme1n1 now.

[sterile plinth]

done that, fdisk shows the new uuid

verify is clear too

hmm thinking about it, I did just accidentally randomize nvme1n1

no worries, I'll just manually put in the uuid from 0n1

Using the "t" command in gdisk

[twin dew]

Need to use that gdisk expert mode to change drive ID and partition IDs to the ones from the original disk.
Then check they all match.
And then randomize the original disk.

c to change partition UUID

[sterile plinth]

And g to change disk uuid

[twin dew]

Yeah

[sterile plinth]

I only need to change the windows partition's uuid back to the original, the rest are not bootable anyway

They can stay randomized

[twin dew]

Didn't want to take any risks.

Probably don't matter.

[sterile plinth]

Uuid too short for some reason

[twin dew]

That PARTUUID

[sterile plinth]

Right, my bad my bad

[twin dew]

Ah, don't.

That first was EFI partition with FAT, moment, need to check.

[twin dew]

.

Checking that that isn't by mistake the Type ID, which is also GUID, but with fixed values based on usage

[sterile plinth]

nvme 0n1p2 doesn't have a part uuid at all

It's a Microsoft reserved partition so I won't bother

[twin dew]

Which tells that that is the wrong thing...
As all GPT partitions have the partition UUID.
Need to check that blkid documentation to see what is what.

[sterile plinth]

this specific partition is unrecognizable by any Linux tool

It's a Microsoft thing I'm guessing. I have never seen gparted recognize it properly

[twin dew]

Yeah, because it is just empty space.

[sterile plinth]

flags "msftres"

Microsoft reserved

Anyway if it doesn't have a uuid then there is no issue

[twin dew]

That MS reserves for partition size changes with OS updates.

[sterile plinth]

so I reverted all the uuids back to original and randomized the uuids of nvme0n1

I think it's time to see if it boots?

Nothing else I can imagine could go wrong. I'll try to boot rn

Alright I see windows loading thing

I'm in

lovely!

now time to wipe everything other than c drive

After gym that is

@twin dew thanks a lot for all the help

[sand umbra]

I found an unpartitioned drive in my computer using Disk Management recently

My current build is so old its got its own archaeology expeditions.

[bronze jasper]

i got like 4 old HDDs in my pc just cause they're still working and i got the ports for them and a 1000w psu. but yea, it tunrs out for like a year, i was running without one of the 1TB drives being properly partitioned

[wanton orchid]

it was advertised as some security related partition before
storing some uid and random data there

[safe trench]

for an all black 1440p high-ultra pc build what would be a better case?
planning the get the 970xt at msrp and bringing my own ssd
also using microcenter deals
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zHmdVF

case 1
https://www.amazon.com/Okinos-Radiator-Pre-Installed-Magnetic-Tempered/dp/B0D7BNK6CB

case 2
https://www.amazon.com/Antec-High-Airflow-Motherboard-Simultaneously-Mid-Tower/dp/B0D9LLWBCB

[dire igloo]

CPU/MB I assume microcenter deal
Overkill AIO, probably also overpriced/mediocre
Overpriced RAM, meh for manual OC
Overpriced PSU, probably overkill too
Can't speak about custom cables, feels overpriced tho
No SSD in list

As for case:
Can't speak for Okinos quality, from what I've seen generally quite cheaply made.
Antec one is fine from what I remember

Can consider Lancool 217 too:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rXnXsY/

For AIO, my picks would be ID-Cooling FX360 Pro or Thermalright Frozen Edge

Or for style

Nah, manual tuning for RAM can go a long way without major losses in stability

AIOs are not cost effective and are only worth considering for one or more of these reasons:

1. Aesthetics - You have money to spare and are willing to spend it for style points
2. Space - Your case's formfactor wont fit a powerful enough air cooler (tho you should probably re-evaluate your choice of case)
3. Performance - You frequently load a power hungry CPU (overclocking, heavy productivity) requiring a highend cooler

There's a HUB video where they applied Buildzoid timings.
Tuning 5600 MT/s RAM gave bigger benefits than going to 6000 cl30

That do be true, yeah.
Most people don't care enough

Anyways, gotta go wirk

[safe trench]

i like how they look

i just need to add rgb strips all over then i will gain 9000 fps

not too big of a problem with an aio tho

you are acting like im hard lining this with custom built pipes and 0 knoweledge

im getting a microcenter bundle genuis

[bronze jasper]

k

[safe trench]

appears no one reads here
im bringing my own ssd

the ram is also included with the bundle

not sure if theres any other cheaper aios i can get

[bronze jasper]

asks advice. argues because they're already a self declared expert and know better. classic

[safe trench]

• "bro hes not using an ssd"
  after they stated they bring their own old ssd

[bronze jasper]

no one said anything about your ssd. enjoy your mid pc

[bronze jasper]

that's not "he's not using an ssd" that's "we don't know what your ssd is"

if its a sata drive then its mid

[safe trench]

p310 2tb

[bronze jasper]

at this point i think it's a fantasy build that'll never happen. you're too offended by advice

[safe trench]

uhhuhh

sorry for not thinking aios always leak

[bronze jasper]

failures are usually much less dramatic and just the pump dying

[bronze jasper]

lol using discord client mods so you odnt need to remember the deleted post, but you still can't read it right. i never said leaks

it's a fact that pumps failing is a lot more common than air coolers failing

and a mid range gaming pc won't even need liquid cooling. it's just a gimmick and speaks towards the fantasy build aspect

[safe trench]

aios are not that unreliable

sorry for me not using a aircooler for everything ig

i guess i got to attach a heatsink to my mouse for that

[bronze jasper]

fake appologies speak towards the fantasy build aspect too

[safe trench]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[bronze jasper]

thats what i said. fake appology

[safe trench]

i guess jokes mean everything is fake

[bronze jasper]

so sulky

[dire igloo]

Yeah, missed that one, sorry

Wtf happened here?

[dire igloo]

Didn't have a custom price, also had Amazon manually selected as vendor

[safe trench]

the ram is the same price as getting one new

i dont think they have microcenter in the selector

[dire igloo]

I did mean "your list needs an SSD" cuz I missed the part about bringing one from an old PC

[bronze jasper]

it's a fantasy build anyways it doesn't matter

[dire igloo]

Not particularly good, but tolerable since it's already owned and you're not doing any major drive heavy loads

[safe trench]

i feel like it would have enough storage, currently only using 400 gigabytes on it

[dire igloo]

It's a matter of 5y lifespan vs 15y
And it was stated from the very beginning that it's an aesthetics build

[dire igloo]

It's about the quality, not the quantity.
2TB is definitely plenty, P310 is just quite low end for NVMe

[safe trench]

i mean since day one the drive showed 99 health on crystal disk info unlike my cheap laptop one

but yeah i might need to get another nvme later

[bronze jasper]

i stopped taking them seriously when i saw their discord profile pronouns. they're just an attention seeker and will never actually build this pc

[dire igloo]

They don't. The three most commonly used strategies I've seen for microcenter bundles are custom prices for all, custom part for bundle and $0 for the parts or bundle price for one part and $0 for the others

[dire igloo]

Fair point with the pronouns, not gonna assume any behavior tho

[bronze jasper]

good luck playing with the energy vampire

i'm all about being prejudice towards bigots. they're worthless

[safe trench]

https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/custom-pc-builder-amd.aspx?k=1755587209496

the ram wont have a bundle discount

[dire igloo]

Your points kinda sucked too btw.
They said it's using microcenter deals, it was quite obvious that it was a CPU/MB bundle. Also: where'd you get that shared polling info from? First time I'm hearing it

[bronze jasper]

shared electrical lanes were an older problem wiht motherboards, around the time of the 1080 TIs were the last time i saw them

[safe trench]

?

[bronze jasper]

just an example of B series boards having cut corners compared to X boards. shared lanes were undocumented but caused a LOT of problems

who knows what undocumented compromises are done these days

[safe trench]

wdym polling info

[dire igloo]

Okay, yeah, early gen cheapo B series had that, but I think that was B350 only.
AM5 B-chipset boards are very overbuilt compared to their naming, I've seen B-series boards better built than some X-series (even a couple Intel Z boards)

[bronze jasper]

Gigabyte tho

[dire igloo]

Shared PCIe lanes.
It's when some connectors on your motherboard use the same pcie lanes to connect to the CPU or chipset.

One common but old example is m.2 slots and SATA ports being mutually exclusive

[dire igloo]

It's fine. And let's not forget that ditching it for a different board will lose the bundle savings

As you said, overclocking isn't really a consideration here.
And for general use, that board is more than good enough

[dire igloo]

iirc that basically means you play full bundle price for only CPU and MB.
$120 for that kit is hella overpriced, 2x16gb DDR5 shouldn't go into the triple digits, you can commonly find good kits below $90

[dire igloo]

And this link returns an empty list for me, idk why

[safe trench]

https://www.microcenter.com/product/5006968/amd-ryzen-7-7700x,-gigabyte-b650-gaming-x-ax-v2,-gskill-flare-x5-series-32gb-ddr5-6000-kit,-computer-build-bundle

if thats the case then ill just use the ram with the regular kit then

[dire igloo]

Holy shit, what's that pricing?

$370?!?!
I've seen it around $450 at the lowest

Honestly, still kinda worth it for just CPU and MB (assuming you're locked on black atx board for aesthetic reasons).
But I'd say if you're gonna replace RAM anyway, go 7600/7600x for sub-$200 and ditch the bundle
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kkGmTM

[safe trench]

im going to use the stock bundle ram instead

[dire igloo]

Wait, crucial p310 or patriot p310?

[safe trench]

crucial

[dire igloo]

Ah okay, had the patriot one in mind, crucial's is a much better drive.
Still QLC NAND tho, but some of the best QLC out there

Okay, so, reworked list V1, without MC bundle:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/RfMGTM

Reworked list V2, with MC bundle:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/q9T4fd

I didn't check their other deals tho

[safe trench]

k sure i like that

[dire igloo]

Note that the Century II may not have any custom cables available for it.
Extensions exist but they create extra resistance which can lead to instability in niche scenarios.
Overall, no point for them imo, save yourself the cost

[safe trench]

using that logic would we would get an air cooler if thats the case?

wait never mind im not getting these are cables not cable extensions

[dire igloo]

Cooler choice isn't affected by your choice of PSU or custom cables, at least not here

For air cooler, my go-to pick is this one, $30 and a total beast.
Quite chunky tho
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MFvD4D/

not necessarily a bad pick tho, plenty blackout air cooled builds exist

Just two examples

[safe trench]

are cable extensions one of those things you can cheapout on?

[dire igloo]

Depends, how much of a gambler are you?

[safe trench]

not much