off-topic-tech

[maiden coyote]

how does washer fluid get into the oil.. or does it have help

[jagged snow]

People not knowing where to put it

I have seen it before

[maiden coyote]

like a coolant reservoir full of oil I get.. head gasket goes and the oil pump pumps the oil into the cooling system

[jagged snow]

Pull the drain plug and that's the first thing that comes out 😦

[maiden coyote]

that's awful

[jagged snow]

Yep, that's just mechanical failure
Although usually I see coolant in the oil from a head gasket

[maiden coyote]

when I got to tow them, I checked the oil on both.. didn't see any water in the oil.. but I didn't do anything but pull the dipstick

the guy in the chevy truck was sitting in his with it running...

he's like you can drive it up!... nah I'm good.

[jagged snow]

Lol

[jagged snow]

It might have been sitting below the dipstick
Or it might not have been there

[maiden coyote]

the people in the handicap van at least had the sense to shut it down when it blew white smoke and pop the hood..

[jagged snow]

On most trucks you can put a quart or so in before it hits the bottom of the stick

[maiden coyote]

I have no issues running an engine that's got no coolent, or had overheated if it'll start to tow it.

but things involving oil I don't chance.

[jagged snow]

Yeahhh

Only takes a few seconds to cook a main bearing

The top end is usually fine

[maiden coyote]

My other gripe with new cars is you can't fix them.. even basic shit like changing the battery is impossible.

oh, and Nissans variable compression engine.. good shit

like, hyuandi has always been bad, now you've got the CP4's on the diesels, gm's fuel pump control module, and the engines exploding. fords 10 speed transmission likes to die too.. this is why if I get something newer.. tesla lol

[languid gulch]

still absolutely love my Bolt

the only real issue is how damn hot it gets here. it slows down the charging

which i don't consider it a flaw in the charger design

that's mainly a "nobody tests things for the desert" thing

still looking at doing something with the godawful piano black plastic interior pieces

[charred relic]

My PSP was that paino black plastic... god i hated that stuff because it showed every little fingerprint and smudge

I loved the device though... I wish I'd kept EVERY console I ever owned but that one I feel like would still have more value to use than other stuff...

It was set up for homebrew already because my buddy had the "pandoras battery" to do that whole...thing

[thin trout]

There's not that much they can do about it

active battery cooling maybe but that's +complexity and +power

[twin dew]

(Almost) all EVs already do have active battery water cooling.

Which can both heat or cool the cells depending on ambient and battery cell temperature to keep the cells in optimum temperature range.

Too low and the current drops significantly, both charging and discharging.
Too high and the cell life drops significantly first, and then you get possibility of thermal runaway.

Some hybrids and early EVs tried to do with just air-cooling, and those batteries died fast in actual use.

And most can use part of the charger delivery to run that cooling/heating for the battery.

For at least pure EVs, hybrids might not be able.

[dire igloo]

That reminds me:
German researchers found a Volkswagen database of EV diagnostic info.
Stuff like GPS data and battery temp - from which they found a secret testing range somewhere in Finland

[twin dew]

Secret? The Tundra Proving Ground (TPG), situated in Sodankylä, Finnish Lapland.

[dire igloo]

Here's the German talk, idk if there is an English dub
https://youtu.be/iHsz6jzjbRc

[twin dew]

Yeah, but carmakers testing during winter in Finland is in no way "secret" here.

Including those common use test ranges that are known.

[dire igloo]

The crazy part wasn't the testing range anyway, it was public access to a GPS history of several EV models

Great talk tho, strong recommend (if you understand German)
One of my all time favorite ones

[charred relic]

Come race me at the Porche Experience 😄

[dire igloo]

This one is still number 1 tho
Highly technical, immensely experienced presenter, incredibly well presented
https://youtu.be/CSZWTaTu9As

And very very underrated for how good it actually is

Maybe this year I'll make it to the Congress

[languid gulch]

oh yea my car's battery has active cooling, but it's already ~40C outside or in the garage, so it's working hard

[dire igloo]

No need to specify K, C or F at -40

Can't be K and C/F is the same

[languid gulch]

reread it

~ not -

[dire igloo]

Ah

[twin dew]

Basically there are several companies in Finland providing car winter testing ranges as service:
https://laplandpg.fi/
https://tundrapg.com/

[dire igloo]

Tired eyes and small phone screen

[twin dew]

Those two were just what I found with quick check,.

[languid gulch]

i do see the range estimator in my car drop when i have the A/C on full blast, but nowhere near as much as the heater

it does an OK job, but i still wish it had rear vents

[safe trench]

"god i love getting a recall every hour!" - tesla owners

[languid gulch]

hey, no more recalls lately

[white kraken]

Hey all 🙂

Do you know some RTX 5xxx card reviews which are also taking the loudness of the cards under different loads into consideration?

[languid gulch]

from what i've heard it's more or less what it's always been as far as brands and models go

i know that the gigabyte eagle OC models are notoriously loud

[white kraken]

but there are always differences, thats why I'm looking for some reviews 🙂

[twin dew]

Any why would you buy a 5000-series card right now, when there aren't yet any stable drivers for them yet?

[white kraken]

I'm planning my new built, I hope the drivers will get stable till I have all the components 🙂

[dire igloo]

Best course of action: don't plan your build yet.
Things change too much

[languid gulch]

yea there's already rumors of a 50 Super series

[dire igloo]

Why it's not a good idea to choose parts long in advance:

• Supply changes - your intended parts can run out of stock.
• Prices in your list can increase drastically.
• Prices for competing parts can go down, making your list more expensive or otherwise less ideal by comparison.
• New products may and will release that can be better than your initial choices, making your list outdated
• Anchoring bias - you are more likely to stick to your first parts list, even if it's worse than another list made later on.

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/milk-it-georgia-dawgs-go-uga-gif-16018867

[dire igloo]

There are four reasons why buying parts from a list over time isn't recommended:

• List will become invalid over time and will need constant updating (stock changes, price changes) over the buy period
• New products release — by the time you're done buying over a period of x months or weeks, the earliest part you bought is now x months or weeks old, and there are likely better alternatives out there
• Return periods no longer intersect if you buy over a long enough period, meaning you have to deal with RMA if you have a part that arrives dead, since you can't test parts until you have most of your parts with you, or if you have testing equipment.
• Buying over time serves no purpose, since a PC doesn't function until you have all the parts with you
  Conclusion:
  You're better off creating and buying a list at the end of your would-be buy period all at once, which will undoubtedly be equal or better than the list bought over time

[charred relic]

Live footage of NVIDIA exec

[languid gulch]

more like

[white kraken]

nothing else did I say. just in less words 🙂
Whats wrong in looking in all the possibilities available?

[dire igloo]

Anyways, the issue with the kind of testing you requested is that it's heavily reliant on fan curve.

If you're using an aggressive profile, your temps are lower but noise goes up - so if you compare it to a different card, that one might have lower noise but also higher temps.

It's rare enough to see noise-normalized testing for fans and coolers, I am yet to see it for different AIB models.
Techpowerup are the only review outlet I know that even test different AIB designs of the same GPU

[twin dew]

Yeah, but most people only care about that default fan curve anyways?

[dire igloo]

It's not wrong, just pointless.
Either you make a plan that you have to overthrow later or you get a rough outline where you can't really go into details

[twin dew]

So just knowing the idle and full load noise levels in apples-to-apples comparison is enough.

[dire igloo]

In which case: if you care about noise, use a custom fan curve

[languid gulch]

and even then the usual result is that if they are recycling a cooler with some mild revisions for the new gen, it's gonna have the same results as the old gen

[dire igloo]

It's not apples to apples because a card that's 5C cooler at higher noise might be less loud at same temps.
It's why noise normalized testing is so important.

Knowing noise and temps at certain rpm values or at full send gets me nowhere if I want to know which card would be quieter on a custom curve

[twin dew]

Yes, that would be additional data for those that do make custom curves.
But even getting the default curve stuff would be nicer than just stabs in the dark or results from multiple outlets that cannot be compared.

[dire igloo]

And even with stock curve, setting a fixed rpm is meaningless.

[languid gulch]

also i don't think i've ever had a GPU that was annoyingly loud

[dire igloo]

The unusual result will have higher temps and run louder because of poor adaptation of the cooler

[dire igloo]

The funniest shit is when people ask me for a rough draft on their planned $2k build because they want to know what amount they'd be saving up to.

Turns out, a PC built for a 2k USD budget will end up costing about $2,000

[tribal kraken]

Air cooled Astral 5090 was loud for me, compared to watercooled INNO3D 😄

[charred relic]

water cools his 2600

[languid gulch]

(still has a 2600 in the family)

[charred relic]

Colecovsion + 2600 expansion + liquid loop

[dire igloo]

The only three scenarios in which early planning can help are:

1. You don't know your aesthetic preference quite yet, planning the build will help you figure out what you want the PC to look like.
2. You don't know your usecase quite yet, planning the build will help you figure out what you want the PC to do.
3. If you have a good understanding of desired usecase and aesthetic, planning the build can help you figure out the expected performance or cost.

[languid gulch]

also there's tons of ways to reduce noise out of gpus

[twin dew]

Yeah, but still better to start with more effective cooler as base.

[languid gulch]

oh yea overkill cooler is #1

[twin dew]

In that noise normalized way if possible.

[dire igloo]

Do note however, that all of these will only give you a rough outline of your build.
The specific part choices should still be made as close to the date of purchase as possible.

[gentle osprey]

Is the Logitech G Pro X Superlight good ?

[twin dew]

Most people don't use to high CPIs that laser sensors make sense.
As they have jitter, acceleration etc. issues compared to more classic optical sensors.

[gentle osprey]

Can you recommend a mouse for heavy use like butterfly clicking etc

[night girder]

@languid gulch I just found out.

That I sometimes use the numpad. I just never realise 🤣

Yesterday, I caught myself using it. And I was like "waaaaaait a minute... I do use it".

[verbal raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B93XAEHlGvI

[dire igloo]

Logitech has a long history of selling mediocre mice at high prices and shitty mice at low prices

[mental oriole]

I use it at work, at home I don't have a numpad. 🙂

[twin dew]

And not even going into that kind of things, laser sensors are very niche in actual utility, and worse than good optical ones at anything else.

[dire igloo]

Butterfly clicking sounds like smth you'd want a low debounce time for.
Here's a list - be aware that mice are very subjective in terms of use and fit, so what works well for others might not work for you

Also, this list was specifically curated for debounce time, build quality wasn't a high priority

I know that the HyperX Pulsefire Haste 2 Wired has had good results for its motion latency, idk about clicks tho

[twin dew]

Is "for children" list the right one in this case?
Is there selection for small physical size in there too, in addition to being very cheap and debounce being low.

[dire igloo]

I don't think there was a size or fit consideration at all

Mostly that the usecase typically occurs among children and that low price is an important factor there

Not my list btw

[maiden coyote]

I mean a little safety issue with the floor mats... the seat belts... those are understandable.. the recalls for the inside of the engine becoming the outside not so much

[twin dew]

Yes.
And if you input 9V anyways, you don't need the regulator either.

[inland onyx]

I'm doing 12v, but thats within norminal anyways, I just am not sure how to wire it up to replace the chip

[twin dew]

So there is first AC to DC conversion with filtering cap after and power led.
Then downregulation to 9V.
And then very inefficient downconversion from that for different speeds where the exact voltage actually depends on the motor impedance etc.

No idea why he didn't just use tuneable voltage regulator instead...

[inland onyx]

It's a lego board.

Manufactured by LEGO in the 80s and 90s.

[twin dew]

Ok.

[inland onyx]

this schem was just made for it in 2005

makes repairs and mods easier

[twin dew]

That explains how they got away with that speed control, and why they did it that way, as the kinds of changeable voltage regulators weren't cheap and readily available back then yet.

[inland onyx]

I mean, it works

how do I wire to replace the chip anyhow?

I suspect it could be bad, but haven't been able to test

[twin dew]

Yeah, it works with the exact load it is intended for.
But the lower speeds waste the extra power as heat in the resistors, and the voltages you actually get for the load are load dependant.

On each speed setting.

So for toy circuit from back then, completely understandable.
For modern circuit, not so much.

[inland onyx]

#off-topic-tech message

[twin dew]

Ah, my bad, it is using adjustable regulator already.

So my mistake on reading what was going on.

[twin dew]

https://www.onsemi.com/download/data-sheet/pdf/lm317-d.pdf

[twin dew]

Ok, so the pin numbers are different than in the schematic.
Where 1 is Vin, 2 is Adjust and 3 is Vout

[inland onyx]

so I can't just use wires?

[twin dew]

What do you mean with that?
What are you trying to do?
Connect replacement LM317 / LM350 or other compatible adjustable regulator?

[inland onyx]

Don't have funding to be able to just buy a new chip lmao

[twin dew]

The four bridge rectifier diodes can just be dropped if the input is already DC.
The 2200uF capacitor can be dropped or replaced with significantly smaller one if that DC is good quality.
The led and resistor for power light can be dropped.

LM317/LM350 costs less than 5e.

[inland onyx]

1, don't have any money

[twin dew]

0.5e for the cheapest ones at major distributors.

[inland onyx]

I literally dont have money rn

0 pennies to my name

[twin dew]

But no, that cannot be dropped for anything but max speed operation.

[inland onyx]

lemme go look at my small collection of transistors

I think I might have a STmicroelectric LM317

[twin dew]

That speed control part could be just replaced with a suitable potentiometer instead.

[inland onyx]

The whole board could.

[twin dew]

No.

[inland onyx]

I have a rheostat I could use.

[twin dew]

I mean the voltage selection resistor tree for the adjustable regulator.

[inland onyx]

okay but the same exact function the board does can be done with a pot or a rheo

just can't use my PLC to control them like I can this board

[charred relic]

No magic smoke yet? I am dissapoint

[night girder]

So, this list takes mice into account made for children hands? 🤔

"Minecraft and Roblox mice for children" is the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Ay_aOUcFw
Knew it.

[dire igloo]

#off-topic-tech message

[charred relic]

Well they were either going to capitulate or fight and I'd have assumed 99% chance (at least) they fight it

Because we all know they can never just admit when they're wrong

[dire igloo]

ayo, Solmecke mentioned

[pure karma]

yeeep

[charred relic]

I['d have more respect for them if they put out a garbo game and just said hey look guys we messed up and it wasn't as good as we wanted or hoped for

Then if they at leassxt seem to be trying... im ok with that

But they just act like 'nope this is fine'

Or of course... if you don't like it you're just toxic or whatever else is trendy to call you.

[dire igloo]

"our game is great, you're just not our target audience" works as long as your game is actually successful within its target audience

[night girder]

time will tell.

[charred relic]

And your target audence isn't 3 dozen people

[dire igloo]

honestly, a target audience of 35 people is fine, you just have to calculate with accordingly low sales numbers

a multi-million dollar game expecting to turn a profit? fuck no
a small hobby project done on the side with no intent of commercial succes? absolutely, yeah

[charred relic]

The problem is they take a big title that costs a fortune... then still have a tiny target

or really more accurately turn it into a small target

if it's an existing IP

[dire igloo]

those devs don't blame the community or disliking the game, they blame the community for not buying the game

they'd say "you're the target audience, you have to like it"

[charred relic]

If you alienate half for your fans to appear a small group, that's an L

and we've seen it happen repeatedly now so...

[dire igloo]

okay, yeah, existing IP is an issue cuz you're taking an established fanbase

[charred relic]

But sure if it's just some new game or whatever

but you're talking like tiny indie bullshit im talking about what they're doing to AAA

[dire igloo]

with the complete intent to turn that entire fanbase into your target audience

[charred relic]

Here l;ets piss off half the existing fans to pick up this .5%

[dire igloo]

AAA whaling in established IPs - but those devs don't care about poor feedback, they care about whales leaving

[charred relic]

They are trying to please everyone

and in the process often pleasing nobody.... it's like thy never heard the damn saying

The crash... doesn't have to happen. But it's gonna.

Enjoy 🙂

[dire igloo]

well, depends on who you mean by "everyone"
too many games cater to a non-specific group which isn't everyone but it also isn't someone

[charred relic]

Like I've said though it'll be fine in the wash...

This "crash" also has other names... I prefer to call it a market correction

Games won't die or anything because if there is a demand somebody WILL fill the vaccum

Just might be a little thin on tittles... at least the big ones. I'm sure there will be plenty of smaller devs still pumping out games of all types...

...then some of those might get big and live long enough to become the villain too 🙂

[dire igloo]

heh. titties

[charred relic]

Sometimes I wonder what the OG Activision guys would think if you went back in time to right after they left Atari to form and showed them the future of the company

wonder if they'd be... happy with how they conduct business in the future

I mean I'd guess no considering why they left Atari...

"so... we end up as bad as the company we left"... "no you end up worse than that....by a landslide"

[charred relic]

I should probably stop playing with time that's how I ended up in this dark timeline after the 2020 NYE... incident.

[night girder]

Interesting:

https://github.com/jackjackbits/bitchat

(Jack Dorsey) co founder of twitter.

Not sure if it's going to work since you need a network of phones to send messages.

[charred relic]

Why does that sound like such a terrible idea

[twin dew]

Because it is, and isn't scalable outside very limited amount of users in very tight proximity.

[night girder]

It's not a terrible idea at all. No servers.

[charred relic]

I'm gonna just shut up and let it happen so I get to watch the wrold burn in a decade...

lol

If I could give everyone the ability read minds I bet it would speed shit up a LOT o.O

[twin dew]

Because when the relay range is 5-50m, and bluetooth bandwidth is pretty limited, that just doesn't scale.

[charred relic]

shhhh let it happen

[night girder]

https://github.com/jackjackbits/bitchat/blob/main/WIFI_DIRECT_PLAN.md

[charred relic]

jackjackbits lol

[twin dew]

And then it isn't bluetooth anymore?
And still very limited anyways.

[dire igloo]

sounds like something for a Chaos Computer Club event (GPN, Congress, Camp, etc)

[charred relic]

Doesn't sound secure to me... tbh

but i don['t know that much about the blutooth protocols

[night girder]

It is. Still interesting.

[twin dew]

Yeah, something like that can work.

[charred relic]

I do know as of right this second I don't want random shit connecting to my phone lol

[dire igloo]

smth like what?

[twin dew]

.

[charred relic]

Have to err on the side of caution and it seems risky to me

[night girder]

The app is also in Beta for IOS.

[dire igloo]

wasn't there a similar tech used for notifying people about potential COVID infections?

[night girder]

and if the encryption holds up, it should be good.

[dire igloo]

ah, okay

[charred relic]

hmm not sure

[night girder]

it's a bit like TOR network. But then with bluetooth devices 😄

[charred relic]

an alert i think i heard about but i don't recall bluetooth

could have been a thing tho

heh covid

[night girder]

Bluetooth typically has a range of up to 10 meters (33 feet) for most devices, but newer versions like **Bluetooth 5.0 can extend this range to about 40-400 meters. **

400 meters, they serious?

[charred relic]

I had to be in and out of the hospotal over and over and over through all that... was not seeing what the news showed me :/

[twin dew]

Yes, it worked by tracking time randomized bluetooth IDs around you.
And person who was infected then put their base key to server, so anyone who saw any of those temporal keys got a hit.

[charred relic]

and I was at not one, not two... or three... but 4 different places.... multiple times a month

[twin dew]

As all the temporal keys could be calculated from that base key.

[charred relic]

often in through the ER...

[night girder]

So range issue can be fixed. It's encrypted so the other devices don't matter. It doesn't have a server.
So only the phone has the message, nobody else (privacy win).

[charred relic]

usually in theourh the ER...

But the thing with the bluetooth as already poiinted out

isn't the range gonna be a problem... i mean cmon

my phone pisses me off controlling a bluetooth speaker sometimes lol

[twin dew]

Yes, depends on the hardware and antennas used in the devices.
Most only bother to implement 10m basic version.
100m BL stuff has been available for ages, but in very limited numbers.

[night girder]

Mhm, I can see it being viable for certain things. Military? Maybe?

[charred relic]

It'll end up being a thing to some degree, lets try it!

[night girder]

I just find it a cool little project.

[charred relic]

Oh it'd def have applications

some military for sure....

Anything that';ll help them kill more efficiently they're interested in lol

and communications is part of that...

hell it's why we have the internet

it was designed to withstand all out warfare

[night girder]

briarproject.org/ is similar.

but they also built in Tor network it seems.

[charred relic]

Also, some know this some don't but originally the interstate highways were required to have straight sections a certain length

no more than a certain distance apart 🙂

I'm sure you can figure out why...

[night girder]

This is the part I am worried about.

Ah, svg. Hehe.

[charred relic]

I almost worry about tthe Dorsey part as much as any of the rest :/

[night girder]

Like, if the message needs to go from A to E. And it requires C to travel to another part of town ... that means it can take years (or never) for the message to arrive 🤣

[charred relic]

lol

[twin dew]

And how many "waiting to be delivered" messages will the devices outside the sender and receiver end up holding, and how will any message be marked as already received so that it can be purged from all the other devices with the program etc.

The amount of traffic for just that will end up being way more than the actual messages.

[night girder]

If I understood architecture a bit, purging isn't needed.

It's like passing a hot potato 😄

[charred relic]

Just imagine you are at a friends funeral. And as that's happening you get a Dorsettext from 3 months ago of the dude being burried messing you deserpately for help

"DUDE I NEED HELPO GET HERE ASAP"

[night girder]

Each message includes a Time-To-Live (TTL) field

[twin dew]

And that doesn't work when there isn't known right route for the message to take.
So anyone in the middle needs to keep the message and try to pass it on to multiple people.

[charred relic]

Thanks Jack!

[twin dew]

And that TTL can only limit the amount of max steps before it isn't spread to additional devices anymore by the last step who got it.

[night girder]

Also it seems recipient sends signal if delivery failed that it is "present".

so the message can be send again from cache.

I mean, it's not that the developer didn't do his homework.

[twin dew]

And that is just very simple case of 3 people only.
Where the route is somehow magically known to be from A, to middleman B, to final recepiant C.

[night girder]

Does it have drawbacks? For sure.
But so does every chat program we use right now. It's all stored on servers.

Servers not even owned by our countries. Servers in countries with different privacy laws even!

[night girder]

There is no magic. Just code.

It doesn't just send message by magic over bluetooth. The same you don't just access the Tor network by magic.

It only works when have set up the correct application (which does the magic you describe).

It's not that devices just send the message to every Bluetooth device it can find until it reaches recipient.

[charred relic]

But... code is magic

[mental oriole]

I'm a computer whisperer!

[charred relic]

Sometimes the code in my computer talks to me...

Tells me what I need to do next...

[night girder]

Kit, did you get my message?

[mental oriole]

I didnt follow the entire convo, but I kind of get it ye. I assume it only works if you know the recipient WILL connect to that node.

[charred relic]

You could use something like that in an office...

surely...

But then im like "but why"

[night girder]

No worries Kit, my message will arrive. Someday.

Just don't turn of your BT!

[charred relic]

Reminds me of that interview of the guy that did the first WASP album... Blackie wanted to do shit tha tmade no sense and he was always like "but...why"

he was outta control though... had the drummer in there literally recording ONE drum at a time heh

[mental oriole]

Sure

[charred relic]

apparently it made it "more pure"... he had to be on dope right?

[mental oriole]

connecting to node 92b2a8f4-1b90-4d43-8e75-02df012867e6

[charred relic]

NGL there have been many times i wish I had just a bit more BT range :/

Like I can alllllmost keep a connection between this room and the closest bathroom...almost

And the kitchen...

And do I just have bad luck with it or are motherboards just known for having not so great range because I've never owned a motherboard that had decent BT range

[jagged snow]

It can really depend on the exact setup

Many bluetooth devices are actually well above-spec in terms of range

My phone + one specific pair of earbuds can go over 100ft into seperate buildings for some reason

[charred relic]

At first I thought it was just where the pc was wasn't a great spot... but I've had 4 different setups that are laid out quite differently over time and it was bad always... guess just bad luck

This one is actually what I'd imagine as average I guess so I can't complain toooo much now.

[night girder]

I do have a few instances where multiple devices Bluetooth interferes with another.

If I plugin my BT earbuds from JBL while sitting next to my PC. I get only static. As if they are broken.
I've found out that it's the transmitter for my Arctic headset of my PC, that causes the interference.

I haven't digged into the technical aspect of this yet.

[safe trench]

why pay for paper when you can just use the paper they send you as printer paper?

[night girder]

But once I pull out the transmitter, the earbuds work perfect.
Or if I walk out of range.

[maiden coyote]

please, elaborate.

[safe trench]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1136881097419001916.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[charred relic]

That's the sane part of my brain when I get a crazy idea.

(the insane side usually wins tho)

[charred relic]

I should give Rise of Industry a look. Somebody gifted it to me ages ago and I never got around to even trying it...

[dire igloo]

Just went back to this discussion, you're saying that this explanation was wrong or outdated?
With fps being a rational fraction of the monitors refresh rate?

[languid gulch]

9950X is $434 for prime

[dire igloo]

Oh shit, yeah. Prime days are starting

Time for none of the stuff I'm interested in to be on sale

[charred relic]

heh 9950x is how many cores?

yeah that's a big boy

With that CPU, more ram and some drives I could actually bypass a dedicated system if I really wanted... if I can game on 8 cores now i'd have more than the headroom I'd need and then some

[twin dew]

I meant that the various diagrams shown don't deal with the actual situation, but the limited case where you (almost) know the real route the message will take, magically.
Which the actual case will not be.

[twin dew]

No, that seems to be what would happens in most cases.
As the program would need to stop rendering for that to not happen while waiting for next present.

[twin dew]

As example with this, that original device would send the message to many more devices than 1, if there were more available.
And each latter step would send to much more than 2 each, and those "wrong" steps would continue to sending to as many devices they could too, until that TTL max was reached.

If there was to be realistic chance for the message to reach the indended recepient in any sane time, outside of very small limited circumstances.

Basically both seem to be "this would be nice niche project" without any actual point in being usable.
People design and code stuff just because it is fun, not that they expect the result to be something usable in wider world.

[dire igloo]

Stop rendering as in "halts render while waiting for the next frame window to open"?

Okay, yeah, cuz you're essentially trying to render some frames at 1/ref seconds frame time and others at 2/ref

So if your frame time is consistently 1.5/ref you're screwed

Cuz it can't render 1/ref, it will always default to 2/ref

[twin dew]

The game is rendering at constant rate, but as that rate is not near the display rate, so Windows and GPU will output at jittering rate.

[languid gulch]

5900XT is $218

damn that's nice

[dire igloo]

First and foremost, 5900xt is irrelevant

[languid gulch]

i mean, if you're still on AM4 it isn't

paid the full fat $300 for my dad's 5600X

[dire igloo]

Yikes, I paid 132€ for a 5600 in May 2023

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/Fireworker2000/saved/L7GV4D

[dire igloo]

Anyways, it kinda is.
In what scenario would an upgrade to 5900xt be the correct choice?

Ryzen 7 5700 and 5700x being $135 and $140 respectively, that's a nice deal

[languid gulch]

limited budget but need the extra cores

that'd be a great grab instead of spending $600+ switching platforms

[dire igloo]

12600kf is $130
14600k is $190
13700kf is $270

[languid gulch]

interesting how none of those are AM4

still, decent deals

i wonder how many companies jumped back to 12th gen just to avoid the degradation issues

[dire igloo]

A decent z690/z790 open box or refurb board is <$120

[dire igloo]

Point is: 5900xt and 5800x3d are the end of the line for am4

[languid gulch]

oh definitely

[twin dew]

And all those Intels are also end of life?

[dire igloo]

Was about to say that

[languid gulch]

but if you're way down the line but still on AM4, jumping up to the top of the line for it is kinda cheap atm

[dire igloo]

I guess the best course of action is to go for an in-between step on am4, like 5700/5700x/5800xt and save the remaining money for a platform change

[dire igloo]

In which case: in what scenario are you on smth like a 1700, 3600 or whatever and a use case that'd want you to skip to 5900xt?

[languid gulch]

jeez idk man it just looked like a decent sized discount

i can't predict other people's spending habits

[dire igloo]

Hm, weird, pcpp doesn't pick up the prime deals price
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/nYvD4D/

[languid gulch]

and jumping from something like 6 cores up to 16 for $200 seems like a steal to me

[dire igloo]

Except core count means fuckall in the face of generational improvement and IPC

Going from Ryzen 5 1600 to a 5900xt is a very different step up than from 5600x to 5900xt

[languid gulch]

k then, show me an equivalent jump for the same price

[twin dew]

Depends on software.
And the point was price effective upgrade when not splurging on new system level of money.

[dire igloo]

If you're on 5600, don't bother upgrading, save for a platform change.
If you're on 1600, go 5700 for $135 and save for a platform change

[twin dew]

For games, not usable.
For production software that can multithread, effective upgrade.

[languid gulch]

exactly

[dire igloo]

I don't think that spending $220 now is worth it over spending $350 on a platform change later

[languid gulch]

you can grab a 16 core and a new mobo for $350?

[dire igloo]

*later

[twin dew]

Also RAM.

For it to be usable upgrade for long term, as would also need to switch to DDR5

[dire igloo]

$75 for a good 2x16gb kit

Which is smth I actually forgot to include

So yeah, it depends on how fast you can save up

That deal is actually feasible assuming you won't be able to make that platform upgrade in the next 1-2 years anyway

[twin dew]

And 32GB isn't probably going to cut it for software that can use 16 cores?

[dire igloo]

Who has 64gb ddr4 but not a CPU that benefits from it?

$110-$130 for 2x24gb ddr5
$150 for 2x32gb ddr5

[dire igloo]

But yeah, I see the point now.
It's a good deal, albeit for a narrow target audience

Multicore-heavy software, low budget, am4 platform

[languid gulch]

i was thinking it'd be a nice grab for someone retiring an AM4 platform as their main, but then turning it into a kinda cheapo server or something

[twin dew]

For most server usage in home, you don't need the cores.

[languid gulch]

oh i meant like a minecraft server or something along those lines, something that could use the cores

[twin dew]

Lot of game servers don't use many cores.

[dire igloo]

And even then, $135 Ryzen 7 5700 is the better deal

[languid gulch]

my mmo is going to be jumping from 32 bit to 64, and also migrating hardware & datacenter locations, and i'd love to see what they're moving to

[dire igloo]

If you're on like first gen R5

[dire igloo]

If you're running a home server, this is the advice you should follow - minus the platform change

Save $80, get 90% of the way there

[twin dew]

But AFAIK Minecraft servers are all about single-thread performance, not using multiple cores.

Which is why lot of those were on 14900Ks even in datacenter, which then tended to die in less than 6 months from being always boosted to the max single-core.

As the server MBs didn't undervolt like consumer ones did.

[languid gulch]

speaking of

have we heard anything about failure trends since the "fix" showed up?

[twin dew]

Nothing AFAIK.

Theoretically might have been mentioned in Level1Techs podcasts, but I don't follow those.
As Wendell was the one with connections to those game server hosting companies who had those "when, not if" failure rates.

Who then started moving to AMD X3D CPU servers for any new replacements.

[twin dew]

Intel was the "known quality", AMD was the "unknown upstart", so staying on Intel that was known to be stable was the logical thing.
Until Intel lost that "known stable" position, which caused companies to actually start testing AMD systems, and the positions have now shifted to exact opposite AFAIK in game server space.

And much more server MB options that could take 13900Ks and 14900Ks than AM5 options, until AMD launched the Epyc 4004s to go against the Intel lowend "Xeon"s.

[willow pike]

a combination of amd focusing hard on stability, and intel focusing on fucking nothing, giving amd a window of opportunity

only one of these events by themselves wouldn't have been enough to change things, but with both, the status quo can flip

[twin dew]

In server space actually using server CPUs that change had been going for long time already.
But that specific niche of high-single-thread performance gaming servers using consumer CPUs hadn't budged before that.

AMD already had the special EPYC versions for high frequency traders etc. already for example with just few cores active per CCD and very high frequencies per core (for server CPU).

So for servers using actual server platforms, AMD has been gaining market share in all niches since Zen 2 EPYCs.
But AMD didn't have anything in that Epyc 4004 niche before.
And the AM4 and AM5 "server" MBs with BMCs were just couple of somewhat bad ASRock Rack MBs until that Epyc 4004 launch.

Where as Intel has had for long time equivalent "Xeon" lines that actually use consumer silicon, where the same MB then can take the consumer CPUs too.

[charred relic]

The datacenter I rent from has some Epyc stuff available. Including some in the VPS offerings

I noticed more of that stuff showing up on there.. some number of years ago now

They even have some in their budget lineup

AMD Epyc 7451 - 24 c / 48 t - 2.3 GHz / 3.2 GHz... really never looked up performance comparisonms of those chips tbh

[twin dew]

AMD has about 40% market share right now in server space.

[charred relic]

they have another one in the lowest tier lineup that's a 7351p

[twin dew]

For new server CPUs sold or like probably.
With about 27% install base for servers.

As in about 27% of servers currently in operation have AMD CPUs.

And 40% of new servers sold have AMD CPUs.

[charred relic]

Yeah I'm looking now to see how much they have since I havn't looked in a bit

quite a few offerings...

AMD Epyc 7642 - 48 c / 96 t - 2.3 GHz / 3.6 GHz lel

the min ram on that configuration is 256GB... can upgrade up to 1TB

And it starts pricey and gets really really pricey when you add that RAM and a bunch of drives haha

[twin dew]

Epyc 9965, 192 cores, 2.25 / 3.7GHz, 384MB L3, 500W.
Epyc 9175F, 16 cores, 4.3 / 5.0 GHz, 512MB L3, 320W.

[charred relic]

Dual AMD Epyc 9354 - 2x32 c / 2x64 t - 3.25 GHz / 3.8 GHz

stars at... uhh about 1300/month lol

err my bad 3300

NVIDIA L40S, not familiar with that one

But it has one 😄

[twin dew]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/l40s.c4173

[charred relic]

yeah kinda figured it was something AI

only thing that'd make sense there

or for rendering etc

yeah... i have a very very cheap server from them haha

[thin trout]

they're cheap because they're defective raptor lakes

nobody should buy that arch for any reason

[dire igloo]

What are your recs for a $250 platform change then?
CPU, MB, RAM

Also, I am very curious how the 12600kf can be Raptor Lake

[cyan crescent]

My steam deck didnt even last 1 hour after i got it before i started upgrading it.

[night girder]

not that they expect the result to be something usable in wider world.

And like I posted, other applications already do the same. With some fallback.
And seem to be still up and running. So "niche".

Usecases; cruise ships, airplanes, small surfaces with lots of people where communicaiton can be needed.

[dire igloo]

You can still thrive and be successful within a niche, you just can't expect widespread adoption

Being a niche product is in no way a downside, it's just who the marketing is catering to

[twin dew]

Yeah, main point I have been making that that kind of thing cannot scale to larger distances with lot of users.
Because the bandwidth and processing needs just blow up exponentially per message.
In small area it works.

Even with lot of users in that small area, where not lot of hops are needed.

[night girder]

Bluetooth 5 has reported 400 meters!

[cyan crescent]

And bluetooth is a protocol where you need to constantly pair new devices together.

[twin dew]

Not in all cases.

[dire igloo]

Which is an inherent downside that you can and have to cater to - but it also comes with its greatest strength, a decentralized communication network that doesn't rely on centralized infrastructure

[night girder]

here read this @twin dew

[cyan crescent]

Under probably extremely favorable circumstances

[night girder]

distances is problem we can fix if we want that. It's a non issue. An artificial problem we created ourselves for other reasons.
Such as health, battery lifespan, hardware, price etc.

[twin dew]

Yes, BT CAN do longer distances, with right devices.
Most devices CANNOT do it.
And even 400m without obstructions is pretty short.

[dire igloo]

You say extremely favorable circumstances, I say with the right setup

[night girder]

So like I said, it's a problem we created by shoving shit hardware into phones.

or limiting it for whatever reason.

[twin dew]

Because for most BT uses, range being "only" 5-10m isn't a problem.
So why make the device more expensive to get more range?

[night girder]

And if there was a will from the industry, BT can have longer ranges.

[night girder]

Yeah, that's 20 years ago logic.

[twin dew]

Square-cube law is a bitch.

[twin dew]

No, just basic radio tech.

[dire igloo]

Which, let's face it, is still a concern for this tech.
You need the phones to act as beacons - if you deplete their battery life, they no longer fulfill that role.
And once you're implementing specialized hardware for long-range communication, you lose the decentralization

[cyan crescent]

Companies like to do the “up to blank” but in reality its just the most ideal conditions. The company who makes my drone does this but they tell you what they did. “Up to 45 min fight time” when the drone is hovering and basically all systems turned off that aren’t essential. Realistically, i get like 25-32min flight time

[dire igloo]

This "whatever reason" being cost, convenience and battery life

[twin dew]

Longer range needs much more transmission power, which needs more battery, and more sensitive receivers, and better antennas.
All cost extra, no matter the tech of the time.

That square-cube law really is a bitch.

[night girder]

Asfar as I know devices do become expensive every year. I bought a Nokia 3310 for a few euros. Now you need 1K for some phones or more.

[cyan crescent]

And Bluetooth is meant to be low power

[twin dew]

And why almost all long distance radio uses directional antennas.

[dire igloo]

Just pay a good lawyer and lobby congress to make it disappear, easy as that

[night girder]

I just think, the industry lacks the will/motivation, to do this. That's all. All the rest are just excuses. We can fly to the moon. We can make bluetooth have longer distance.

[dire igloo]

In a way, scientists are just lawyers for the laws of nature

[twin dew]

Not human law, physics law.

[night girder]

And like I said; in dense areas it's a non issue. Airplanes, cruiseships.

[twin dew]

Sorry, inverse-square law in this case.

[dire igloo]

Answer me these two questions:

1. What would it take to give mainstream Bluetooth devices more range?
2. What usecases benefit from giving mainstream Bluetooth devices more range?

[night girder]

In my house atm I have like 5 connections from BT devices.

[dire igloo]

(twas a joke)

[night girder]

1. I don't know.

2. Is already discussed yesterday and today.

What's moreover, in many countries Bluetooth devices with output power stronger than** 20dB (which is Class 1, 100m) are prohibited.**

[dire igloo]

So... making a specific implementation of decentralized communication more feasible for larger areas?
Very very narrow usecase.

And to answer one:
More power to the antennas, different antenna configurations, directionality.
All three are very major downsides for mainstream Bluetooth devices

[night girder]

So don't tell me it's not possible. When it clearly is.

[twin dew]

So everything should be more expensive to support very niche mesh bluetooth message network, to bypass other options that would use cellular radios already in use and private servers for example?

[dire igloo]

It's possible, just not worth it

10m range is enough for headphones or a speaker - which is by far the most prominent usecase for Bluetooth

[night girder]

YOU keep calling it niche. Baldur, at this point, it's your opinion it's niche.

[dire igloo]

Going beyond that is possible, but the sacrifices become too big to justify them

[night girder]

It's like calling Netflix niche in the early days of Netflix.

Nobody knows. But don't call use a new application being new, as an argument, why it wont work.

"Netflix will never work, because nobody has a subscription for it" argument on the day Netflix is announced logic.

[dire igloo]

No, because the niche of early Netflix came from a different inherent limitation:
Fast enough shipping

[night girder]

Ofc nobody has Netflix, it's new!

[twin dew]

You you don't seem to understand WHY I call it niche?
Because of the actual limitations of any such tech.
When there are much more commonly used alternatives already which don't hit the specific limitations, and give (almost) same privacy when using actual servers the users own, and not something like Discord etc.

[night girder]

Anyway, it's a niche application for sure at the moment because nobody knows about it and/or cares.
Doesn't mean it can't lead to anything 🤷‍♂️

And you know how many people have BT?

[twin dew]

Exponential scaling per message vs. linear scaling.

[night girder]

Imagine everyone getting the app ... I am just curious about it's efficiency.

[dire igloo]

The limitation of this decentralized network is having enough beacon devices in close enough proximity to cover whatever distance you intend to cover

[twin dew]

Very steep exponential scaling.

[dire igloo]

It's best use in combination with different techs: local network through BT beacons, long range telecommunication through directional radio

[night girder]

Military. Commercial.

[twin dew]

Who already have devices for the usecase?

Doing it with BT is worse than what is already available for military etc.

Or for localized messaging for commercial use with base station(s) to tie it all together.

[dire igloo]

Let's assume everyone in the world had that tech running on their smartphone.

Benefit: intra-network communication becomes stronger the more crowded the area is
Downside: the Texan rancher still needs radio towers or satellites for communication

[night girder]

The alternative is still there. Traditional communication by server. So Texan rancher, you good.

[dire igloo]

The primary usecase of that tech are densely populated spaces

[night girder]

And the fact is, BT (even Airdrop) has been used in society for communication for certain things.

[dire igloo]

The primary downside of that tech are long distances

[twin dew]

And the major problem is that exponential scaling per message with more devices there are in the network.
And even more the longer the distance is between the sender and intended recepient.

[dire igloo]

No tweaks you can make will change anything about that

[twin dew]

From just all the overhead.

[night girder]

During the protest in HongKong, both BT and Airdrop were used for students to communicate.

[dire igloo]

Exactly - a dense crowd of civilians

[night girder]

What do you think I've been saying? 😄

[twin dew]

Yes, but point-to-point is completely different deal than unorganized mesh of moving devices.

[dire igloo]

That you want to strengthen civilian Bluetooth capabilities to alleviate the downside of this technology being utter dogshit over longer distances

[twin dew]

point to point is still linear, organized mesh would still be linear.

[night girder]

No!

1. Interesting technology with viability in some usecases.

[twin dew]

Or just use that WiFi Direct?

And not BT?

[night girder]

All arguments I put forward was just to counter someone elses argument "eh, it will not work, it's shit blabla"

[dire igloo]

These are the two critical factors for the target audience:

• dense crowd - otherwise you get fucked by inverse square law
• civilians - because there are specialized implementations for military and commercial use

[night girder]

So far it was range, price, usecase, all being an issue why it's not viable or atleast interesting technology/advancement.

And then also totally neglecting the pro's like privacy and encryption. You don't need servers to run 24/7. If the servers are down you can still communicate.

[dire igloo]

Exactly - people list the limitations of that technology.
You are arguing against those people instead of acknowledging these limitations.

[night girder]

I countered the limitations with facts. Range can be solved.

[twin dew]

Where the sender and receiver aren't too far apart either in number of jumps needed, because otherwise the bandwidth usage and overhead just go so exponential that the stuff just clogs up.

[dire igloo]

It is interesting technology, but only with a narrow usecase - and apparently, better alternatives already in place

[night girder]

Price is a non issue to me. It's the one of the more dumb arguments I read.

People pay 2k for a foldable phone.

A little bit stronger BT hardware isn't going to scare away consumers.

[twin dew]

And that same stronger BT hardware also then allows you to be tracked more easily?

[night girder]

and usecase I also countered with facts/possible usecases.

And even real time usecase (HongKong).

So no, I am not argueing people, I am arguing the points.

[twin dew]

(as you tried to argue for the privacy benefits of the mesh messaging)

[dire igloo]

Yes, range can be solved.
But solving the range issue creates too many new issues in the context of the usecase.

You can't make Smartphones with reliable 100m BT range unless you sacrifice their portability, their battery life and/or the omnidirectionality of their BT implementation

[night girder]

I did. Encryped in front.

[twin dew]

And point is, you get basically all the same benefits from self-hosted server by one of the users in the private messaging network and just normal IP-networking with encryption.

[night girder]

Because a server can't be hacked right? It's not that the thing is open on the internet 24/7.

[dire igloo]

Except it is if you view it in the context of large crowds - some people pay 2000€ for their phone but the majority would rather have it stay below 500€

And I am certain that the majority of people would refuse a 200€ BT range upgrade even if everything else about their phone stayed the same

[night girder]

And no, my phone BT can't be hacked from the otherside of the world. A server can.

They would need to sit right next to me with BT devices to intercept the message maybe and then decrypt it.

[twin dew]

To intercept: just be close enough or in opposite direction from the actual recepient with the program running.

[dire igloo]

That's the very niche this tech caters to.
I'm not saying that there are ZERO usecases. I'm saying that the range of viability doesn't leave many possible usecases open - too few to justify most of the cost associated with catering for them

[twin dew]

Because the message will be going out in about a circle out from you until it reaches the target, and then continuing for long time in some of the directions.

[dire igloo]

It's easier to protect a single server than an entire network

[night girder]

Yeah, Tor network says hi 🙄 (which is the same core principle)

[twin dew]

And today so many of the TOR nodes in operation are by governments, that they can track lot of the traffic.

[dire igloo]

Except wired and not built for real-time

[dire igloo]

That too

[night girder]

Ah well, we going in circles.

[dire igloo]

Taking over a decentralized communication network isn't a matter of complexity, it's a matter of quantity

[night girder]

I know Baldur is always right so. Let's leave it at that.

Brain, co-founder of Twitter, is clearly an idiot for developing such tech.

Have a good day 👋

[twin dew]

My point has just been that that kind of tech doesn't scale outside of small area use.
Because of the exponential bandwidth overhead when the number of hops increases.

[dire igloo]

You are right too, this tech is interesting, decentralized communication is a good thing.
But instead of acknowledging the downsides and limitations, you're arguing as if that tech is flawless

[twin dew]

It doesn't matter what tech the actual mesh uses.

Or how long each hop is.

[dire igloo]

He's not an idiot, he has a very clear goal and he's probably well aware of its limitations.
He'd be an idiot if he proposed that tech as a solution for global communication or if he acted like it has no technological limitations

[twin dew]

There is steep overhead when the hop count increases.

Which is why said it is niche usecase. Because of the limitations inbuilt into anything like that.

[dire igloo]

The two biggest advantages:

• easy to implement on mainstream hardware
• independent communication

The two biggest downsides:

• awful scaling across longer range
• requires a minimum threshold for beacon density

[dire igloo]

One gigantic difference between Tor and BT is that Tor has unlimited range while BT does not.

You can send Tor packages through the world with half a dozen hops.
But even with 100m range, half a dozen hops of BT doesn't even get me to the nearest grocery store

[twin dew]

And TOR different kind of mesh, and does real-time P2P for the actual data.

[dire igloo]

And with a more realistic BT range limit of 20m, I can't even reach the nearest bus stop

[twin dew]

Same as any non-organized mesh for the downsides.
And if you add in cases where the message is stored in midpoint beacons to allow for non-real-time passing as devices visit range of the beacons, it goes way up for that overhead.
If you just try to keep that non-organized mesh constantly up to date on what devices are currently in the mesh, to get kind of organized mesh, so that all other mesh devices know that, it already causes very steep exponential overhead.
And if you add that "passing messages to devices that aren't visible right now", it gets even worse, even without trying to organize the mesh, so you don't get that overhead.

With that "who are available, how to route to that other device in realtime", the actual message is just bunch of P2P, but that mesh organization overhead is very steep as device count increases.

For TOR it is much more easy, as all nodes can talk to all nodes.
Just need list of nodes and randomly select next one.

For outgoing messages, and for incoming they use the same route as the outgoing used AFAIK.

TOR node jumping is about obfuscation.

[dire igloo]

Makes me wonder: would a non-organized mesh work to establish a direct connection?
Sending an E2E message through the mesh not for actual communication, but to transmit info about a direct channel

Which would then need centralized comms, nvm

[twin dew]

Yeah, that was that message passing to keep info about devices and routes available up to date as devices moved around.

[dire igloo]

And you can't say "hardcode a specific series of hops once the connection is established" either because nodes can move out of range from one another

[twin dew]

To know how to route the message without broadcasting it to all nodes you can see, but only to those that can actually move it towards the final target.

Where that constant status traffic is exponential.

More nodes there are in the mesh.

[dire igloo]

More like "my phone number is 123, call me", encrypt it, send through mesh, recipient opens it and calls directly, bypassing the need for the hopping overhead.

[twin dew]

Most mesh implementations don't have moving nodes, so they only organize seldomly.

[twin dew]

Which was that even then it then goes out as circle from the original person, to every device that can hear, which then each retransmit it outwards etc.
And then either you have to set hop limit to not have it slosh around until all devices have sent it out at least once, or do something else.
And if you try to cancel it once the target has got it once, you get even more traffic.

Which was the point of the bandwidth going up exponentially as there are more devices in the unorganized mesh, no matter how small each message is.

And if you add "saving" and passing the message in non-real-time, it gets even weirder.

To get it to devices that weren't in same full mesh at that point as the message was sent.

If the intended recepient wasn't in the range of the mesh the sender was part of at the moment of sending.

Broadcast with rebroadcasts just is insanely exponential.

As any ethernet network that you accidentally loop will tell you.
As the normal broadcast traffic will just grind even the fastest ethernet to halt in few seconds.

So even at minimum each device would need to keep track of unique message IDs it has already relayed, to not rerelay them again for some time.

To keep the message just propagating outwards, and not back inwards and starting to "slosh".

[dire igloo]

Hop limit or timeout - but then again, a timeout relies on a dense enough network so it isn't astronomically large

And you don't get a handshake either way - the only way to know if the message was received is by the recipient issuing a response

[twin dew]

Yeah, for limited time the reverse path can be used in just P2P.

Until the nodes that were used move too much to not be in contact in the exact route anymore.

[dire igloo]

And that time limit is unknown

Cuz you can't define it anyway

[twin dew]

Unorganized meshes are just real pain when they grow.

Even more with moving nodes.

[dire igloo]

Yeah - but they're awesome before they scale

because of how easy they are to set up

[twin dew]

Which is why tech like that can easily work at small scale.
And that is why I have been calling it niche tech.

[dire igloo]

Which is why it works so well in scenarios like anti-authoritarian civilian protests

[dire igloo]

I feel like people too often confuse "niche" as being synonymous to "useless"

[twin dew]

Problem with that is that if it took off, BT would be trivial to just jam by those governments.

[dire igloo]

It's not useless, it just doesn't apply widely

[twin dew]

Yup.

[dire igloo]

ayup - civilians too, I doubt it's that hard to modify a wifi AP into acting as a 2.4ghz jammer

[twin dew]

WLAN jammers are readily available on Ebay and various chinese shops.

And those same things will jam BT too, as both use same frequencies.

With even more range than they do for WLAN.

[dire igloo]

iirc you're not allowed to even own, let alone operate, a signal jammer in Germany

[twin dew]

Yeah, illegal almost everywhere.

But point that they are readily available, if you can get it past customs.

[dire igloo]

True - you don't need to abide by the BT protocol to spam its channels

[dire igloo]

And if you can't, a cheap Wi-Fi router could probably be tweaked into spamming all available frequencies

[twin dew]

Well, only need several and have full broadcast of normal WLAN traffic on all the channels.

As WLAN is higher power than BT, so it acts as BT jammer when transmitting.

And with all channels take, the BT cannot just hop to another part of the allowed spectrum.

And that would be completely legal too.

[night girder]

Shit my iphone died. And I forgot to back it up. Last backup is pretty old.

it's going to be PITA to setup google authenticator.

Well, I order a refurbished one for tomorrow.

[tough owl]

why do you use google authenticator?

yubikeys store the codes on device

[night girder]

it was an iphone 6s

so back then, I didn't know about yubikey. But good point.

[mental oriole]

I should also yubikey my stuff...

Maybe this vacation after I finish my table mod 😁

[tough owl]

I love them

[feral drift]

Fairly sure that your iPhone does its own backups without you needing to do them - usually on a daily/weekly basis can't remember..

But have had previous phones dying, and was able to restore from a relative new backup, which i didn't initiate

[twin dew]

He IIRC only does local manual backups, with iCloud ones disabled.

[feral drift]

Ah okay yeah - usually mine does them over night when Wifi is on - and phone is in charger

[twin dew]

As Apple has full access to those iCloud backups, and via that, also all worlds law enforcement agencies have too etc.

[glossy glacier]

If you enabled it, Google auth has a cloud sync feature

[feral drift]

I understand you should be cautious on internet - but would say the level of anxiety having that point of view, wouldn't make your life fairly easy to live.. As Apple ain't the only instance that does so..

[twin dew]

You haven't read lot of Letterdiefs messages here then?

[feral drift]

Probably have - but not something that necessary stuck on my mind :)

[jagged snow]

I use duo authenticator with a yubikey as backup for most stuff

The most critical is yubikey only

[tough owl]

My school forces duo

[jagged snow]

Oh fun

[night girder]

No no. I know what you mean. But that's not the case.

I saw a company that tries data retrieval. The starting price was 499 euros. 🤣

Most of my photos are synced to icloud.

And so are my contacts. But iCloud is full. So not everything is synced.

[visual tree]

At least you don't have to worry about movie backup

Found about this today https://youtu.be/8dhp_20j0Ys?si=NJorL-wq7YCsiFv7

[cyan crescent]

I just found out that if 2 devices are on the same network on steam and one attempts to download a game that the other has, it just transfers the files. Thats kinda neat. Never knew that. Is that how steam cache servers work for large lans?

[pure karma]

yeeep probably

cause it alows you to predownlaod the game and then have everyone download locally at whatever speed is achievable from the cpu on the "download sever" asuming you got like 10 gig networking or something

[glossy glacier]

dang, limited by the disk xD

[cyan crescent]

Skill issue

[jagged snow]

Literally that, yeap

Steam just checks for an avaliable download cache on the same net before downloading from steam servers

And that can be somebody else's client or a dedicated & configured cache server

[charred relic]

How well ya reckon a 5xxx series AMD CPU would handle a SF server?

Gonna break out the old system soon and see if I can figure out what's wrong and/or what's working or not. Might just build something around that if I have enough working already

[pure karma]

good enough probably

when i ran it 8 cores was excesive for about a 12MB save at the time back in update 8 so i dont see why like a 6 core cpu wouldent cut it

[charred relic]

I have been needing to drag it out and give it a look... it MIGHT just need a PSU... if that's teh case it's a functional 3700x with 32GB... and no drives

But I could swap that CPU out with something a bit newer

Oh and no video card lol

[pure karma]

just trow in a ewaste one

for like 5 cents

[charred relic]

so I'd just get a new cpu that has gpu in it

because i don't reaaaally need a powerful one

[pure karma]

or that yea

[charred relic]

or... look for one of those quadros

[pure karma]

but satis hates igpus so keep that in mijnd

[charred relic]

i won't be polaying the game it'll be running the server

the machine im on now would be running the actual game to play

[jagged snow]

5xxx will be more than fine

[charred relic]

if i get a quadro or something it'd be for video re-encoding

(for streaming)

hmmm that might be a tomorrow project that I start lol

[wanton orchid]

if you want to go new get a 5700x3d for instance

best performance for buck you can get

lower heat too

[pure karma]

i just realised

now that im finalyl getting a capture card

and i have the b580 i could ACTUALLY daily linux

cause i could do any windows stuff on my second pc

[charred relic]

Yeah I might go x3d pending price

I gotta see if it's even worth fooling with first

"2025-07 Cumulative Update for Windows 11 Version 24H2 for x64-based Systems (KB5062553)" Oh Windows... you make me so nervous with these....

[pure karma]

oh lovely

i wonder what they broke this time

anyway im setting up my like 47th bazzite install usb

for attempt 45 at not breaking everything

[charred relic]

lol

im all rebooted

it was already installed and waiting

[jagged snow]

Who do y'all trust for audio/headphone/earbud reviews

[pure karma]

Nobody

[charred relic]

For headphones or earbuds... i dunno.

[pure karma]

if i trusted any of them i would have new headphones that don’t constantly cut out by now

[charred relic]

mics.. interfaces...stuff like that sure

and to some degree headphones with them

But it's also all studio style headphones... and stuff like monitors

[dire igloo]

Spiritfader

[jagged snow]

👌

[charred relic]

A studio audio engineer is a good source for headphone suggestions usually

[jagged snow]

Thanks

[dire igloo]

This

[charred relic]

Or studio monitors

[dire igloo]

Specifically audio engineer, not producer

[charred relic]

That's all I really care about is shit like that

[jagged snow]

Well yeah, that's all well and good I've got plenty of connections and a decent amount of experience there myself

[charred relic]

mixers/interfaces too...guitar speakers

[jagged snow]

But I'm specifically talking about everyday wear earbuds/headphones

[charred relic]

the speaker is the secret kids, it's not your pickups

hell it's even not so much the amp itself

😄

people will chase tone in all the wrong places :/

[dire igloo]

Asking a producer about audio equipment is like asking a taxi driver about car engines

[charred relic]

Yeah

When it comes to that type of hardware they have used a BUNCH if they've done it awhile

[jagged snow]

Where do I find them?

[dire igloo]

Audio engineers which explored that area

[charred relic]

the main guys i watch it's mostly interfaces and mics and such, not headphones

[dire igloo]

She's a discord user, has her own server (The Tech) and a GitHub page

[charred relic]

and plugins/vsts 😄

I dropped out of guitar in the late 90's then come back to all this tech and im like hoolllllyshit

[dire igloo]

spiritfader.github.io/Buying-Guide/

[jagged snow]

Thanks

[dire igloo]

Shoegaze

[dire igloo]

The point is: they use them.
They don't necessarily know what is good or bad.

You wouldn't ask a CAD engineer about workstation PC hardware

[charred relic]

I can do for 100-200 bucks now what cost me thousands back then

And I can even do it...with my phone and a tiny interface lol

[dire igloo]

Speaker amp for two speakers plus subwoofer, HDMI arc, optical, BT:
130€

Insane shit really, good quality tech full with features for dirt cheap

[charred relic]

I also had to haul a rack of shit around if i needed the whole rig

[soft bloom]

If co2 is so bad for climate and thermal conductivitv then carbonated water feels so refreshing?

[cyan crescent]

When connected to an external display, does the steam deck render at that resolution or at the steam deck resolution then just puts that on the monitor?

[dire igloo]

cuz not everything that feels good actually does good

Example: unprotected sex
Worst case: several STDs and decades of alimony payments (or having to care for a child, depending on what you prefer less)

[soft bloom]

But that doesn't explain why it feels refreshing

Also, since when carbonated water is bad?

[dire igloo]

Who said it is?

The CO2 would've entered the atmosphere one way or another, most of it comes from volcanic sediment iirc

The issue is that warmer water can't dissolve as much gas, so if oceans heat up, the dissolved CO2 will be released into the atmosphere which further amplifies that cycle

And besides, individualizing CO2 emissions is ultimately dangerous to combating climate change because it moves incentive away from regulating global businesses

[dire igloo]

If I had to guess:
It feels refreshing cuz the CO2 leaves solution creating bubbles which make an unusual sensory stimulus

[soft bloom]

I wasn't talking about co2 from bottled water getting into atmosphere

[dire igloo]

What other form of carbonated water is there?
CO2 naturally dissolves in water, but that doesn't make it carbonated

The CO2 concentration in the oceans is so low, you could justify calling the earth flat because of it

[night girder]

So I lost access to 4 accounts so far. Because of authenticator.

1st account in't my fault. They don't provide backup codes. And no other way to reset account. Little hope they will reply from support and help me out.
2nd One I mailed and I got a e-mail back within 10 minutes that they help me out.
3rd account I have high hopes it will be fine since it's a good business.
4th account, it was a kids game from 10 years ago, don't mind much if that's lost.

All the rest recovered by back-up codes and other ways.

[safe trench]

but you need Pro Mlg Minecraft Kids Klub to be connected with you at all times!

[night girder]

It's kinda stupid this one. It had secret questions.
Like what color of car etc. But I don't remember what I filled in 🤣 Didn't even own a car back then.

What's your favorite game was a second secret question. But I've played over 100 games by now.

[night girder]

Rockstar holy shit. They fixed it in minutes once I send them mail. Amazing support. Or I got lucky.

[pure karma]

daily dose of getting hacked with letterdief

nah i got got at some point too cause a lot of my older pasword got encypted by something

only one i still use is for twitch so i coudlent care less

[twin dew]

Almost certainly not encrypted, just that the text file got corrupted while saving or while on disk.
Which is another point against your method without any backups.

[night girder]

I didn't get hacked. My iPhone died and due to reasons, I backed myself into a corner with backups etc.

And I do have a backup, but the problem is. That backup. It's not just "google authenticator.app" when you look at it.

The backup is meants to be transferred to another iphone, which I don't want.

So in Theory, I still have google authenticator and other apps, stored in a backup, on my NAS.

But those are useless.

[twin dew]

And you basically showed that Rockstars two-factor is just snake oil when they removed it that easily when asked.
As anyone trying to steal the account could do the same, if they didn't ask for any extra confirmation stuff.

[night girder]

and one application allowed me to enable 2FA without any backups which I didn't know.

Not even backup codes which 99% of 2FA give.

[night girder]

No it wasn't that easy. That's you assuming. All i said is that I send mail, got response in 5 minutes that they help me out.

[twin dew]

Yeah, I was assuming this was the full truth.

[night girder]

I am not going to type out the whole process. But it was quick.

[twin dew]

Not that they responsed in minutes to start the process.

[night girder]

You know how mails go right?

Question -> Answer + Question -> Answer -> Fixed.

Also Rockstar is a company who probably can afford enough people to reply to these things.
That's why it got resolved so quick. I spoke (mailed) to two different people in minutes.

Either they were waiting for support tickets to get in. Or I got lucky.

[twin dew]

Yeah, so it wasn't as simple as it seemed
But there have been companies where it is that easy, so without more information that was my assumption from your first message.

[night girder]

Better than not receiving any replies and lose access to games.

If you have access over a mail account, you are halfway in. That's true.

[twin dew]

Traditionally you didn't even need to have access to the actual email account, if you didn't need to see any reply.
SPF when properly configured by domain owner, and checked by the recepients email server/client protects against that.

[night girder]

You misunderstand.

[twin dew]

I meant that with companies that just reset stuff on receipt of request from "right email account".

Which is just fucked up, but too common still.

Where you don't even need to have access to that actual email account if there isn't strict SPF in place.
Which is very new thing.

[night girder]

Atleast all the others gave me backups (text verification) and/or backup codes. So all retrieved.

but these few pesky stupid ones don't provide good backups 😦

So moral of the story, disable 2FA 🤣

[twin dew]

Or use 2FA software that allows backups just for the 2FA data in protected format.
Or the actual seed etc. can usually be viewed as text, and printed or like for backup.

[jagged snow]

I just got hit with a 220kv shock at work

(intentionally, not negligence)

[night girder]

Might need to do that. I could all link it to my google account, but I don't feel like that.

[twin dew]

TOTP is just secret as ASCII characters, length of each code and time each code is valid.

That QR code is just transport medium for those things.

When you add new TOTP 2FA into a phone software with QR code.

[night girder]

afaik, google authenticator doesn't allow to backup. I did check it when setting it up.

and I am not even sure if you login with the google account, that it''s synced.

[twin dew]

Very likely as Google wants to force everyone to use their cloud.

[night girder]

which feels a bit off to me.

[jagged snow]

Duo authenticator also only supports backup with google cloud

And google will only let you enable that if you backup your entire device

It's extremely frustrating to me

[twin dew]

Yeah, seems to only have cloud backup option, that isn't end-to-end encrypted, or phone to phone transfer using QR codes.

[jagged snow]

Yup

I really want an option to export a password-protected encrypted backup file for me to store locally

[night girder]

You know. There are two games that forced me to use their authenticator.

Oh shit, three actually. Steam. Blizzard and euhm. Glyph.

Making it even worse. I could get Yubikey. But if games/companies force me to use their crap...

[glossy glacier]

It is now, they added it last year iirc

[night girder]

fml, so I wasn't crazy it wasn't a feature

[pure karma]

i dont think coruption = conversion to Chinese

[twin dew]

Perfectly logical result, and would probably have been pretty easy to correct with hex editor.

[night girder]

Ok, so I am checking Rockstar 2FA implementation atm.

And they don't have backup codes. Sigh.

and no backups either. No secret questions. No text messages.

So it seems the flow is as is. If you lose 2FA, you have nothing, you contact support, they reset it. And you go.

And now the search begins for a google authentication replacement 🤣

[night girder]

What happens when yubikeys breaks? What's the backup?

[twin dew]

Suggested one by the maker is second key.

[night girder]

don't tell me two yubikeys. 🙄

[twin dew]

Where both are activated for all accounts.

And one is kept in somewhere safe.

[night girder]

And what happens when both fail?

[twin dew]

You are fucked.

[night girder]

I guess we can still write down the backup codes. If they are provided by 2FA implementation.

[jagged snow]

For both to fail at the same time would be incredibly catastrophic

[night girder]

True, I just want to prevent the situation I am in for the future is all 😄

"Learn from your mistakes" and such.

[jagged snow]

I keep my yubikey on my keychain and for my most critical stuff I use a stored passkey on my desktop

[glossy glacier]

Hopefully with a backup?

[night girder]

Passkey is fingerprint/face? The device (PC, laptop, ...) needs to support these two?

[jagged snow]

The desketop passkey is my backup for the yubikey

So my desktop and keychain would both have to be destroyed for me to locked out of my account

And backup codes for password manager and a few others are printed out and in a filing cabinet

[tough owl]

get two yubikeys

[twin dew]

And then there are AFAIK services that don't allow multiple to be registered at same time XD

[night girder]

So, for every solution, we get another problem huh? 😄

[mental oriole]

pretty much

[jagged snow]

That's always how it goes

[soft bloom]

oof
Subnautica 2 took a hit

aaand their site doesn't work

[pure karma]

yea shocker when you fire the entirety of management you take a hit

[sharp matrix]

Subnautica 2 news worries me

Might take that game off my wishlist and see what happens

I did love the originals, but if we don't get a sequel of the same quality at least, well needless to say that isnt something I would be interested in playing

[soft bloom]

Well actually taking 1 more year should™ be good for quality

But maybe old team left because new direction they wanted to take 1 year for isn't the same as what made previous ones good

[sharp matrix]

This is for the initial ea launch right, im fine with them taking all the time they need as long as the sequel is good

[soft bloom]

Or maybe because they wanted to get 1 more year as result of playtesting and then new owner wanted to release anyway...
Speculating

Below zero chnaged quite a bit throughtout ea

So maybe new owner is not ok with that aproach

And maybe old team wanted to wait with ea to not change game as much during it

Trailer for coop looked ok, i guess.
Just showed a bunch of new stuff but nothing breaking

[pure karma]

you know i still haven't finished the original

[sharp matrix]

Heresy

And it looks like subnautica 2 was delayed until next year for all of the wrong reasons and the gameplay trailer that dropped makes it even worse in a way....

Damn I sure hope all of the drama happening behind the scenes doesn't negatively impact the game

[pure karma]

obviously this game is done for im just waiting to actually get to watch it burn

[sharp matrix]

How are you

[pure karma]

still a broken man

[sharp matrix]

I want my subnautica 2 bastards

[pure karma]

but ay i have 3 more computers than since we last spoke so thats a thing

thats about the only eventfull thing that has happened

[sharp matrix]

Im going to be broken like subnautica 2 might be, its over

[pure karma]

at this rate same

[sharp matrix]

Screw this I'll just replay subnautica at this rate

[willow pike]

www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/2025/07/intels-ceo-we-are-not-in-the-top-10-of-leading-chip-companies.html

Intel’s CEO: ‘We are not in the top 10’ of leading chip companies
“On training I think it is too late for us,” Tan said. He said Nvidia’s position in that market is simply “too strong.”

it's so over

[languid gulch]

ouchie

also holy fuck

[willow pike]

“Our number one priority is to make sure that our 18A is robust for our internal customer,” Intel’s own processors, Tan said this week. “And then second priority is starting to look at another, 14A, and that’s the next frontier.”

rip 18A being a big foundry player

[night girder]

Started to hunt for a iphone case. I noticed my previous one, is yellow AF! 🤣
So now I am looking for one that doesn't have that attribute. But it's going ot be hard to cut through marketing bullshit.

with CASEKOO’s groundbreaking GRYS-GEL anti-yellow Technology, your case will stay transparent for longer, defying the yellowing effect over time.

🤨 Wtf is grys gel anti yellowing technology lol!

Using high-grade Bayer's ultra-clear TPU and PC material, allowing you to admire the original sublime beauty for your phone while won't get oily when used. "Never yellow" thanks to the nano-grade diamond anti-oxidation coating which can effectively resist 99.9% of yellowing caused by ultraviolet rays and sweat.

now the "grys gel anti yellow technology", turned into "nano grade diamond anti oxidation coating" 🤣 It's the same product. Just different description from different websites.

Apparantly TPU is Thermoplastic polyurethane.

and if you use aliphatic TPU based on aliphatic isocyanates then yellowing should be a non issue.

[twin dew]

Basically snake-oil sales.
Unless for treating 90s and earlier stuff.

[cyan crescent]

Probably a dumb idea but what if i put a normal glass screen protector on top of a privacy screen protector for a phone?

I’ve noticed the privacy screen protectors are kinda weak

[twin dew]

Just needs to be thin enough stack for the capacitive screen sensor to detect your fingers when trying to operate the phone touch screen.

[cyan crescent]

I didnt think of that

[twin dew]

And might cause some differences in the privacy protector effect, depending on how exactly its top surface is formed and how the "glue" of the second protector interacts together, probably no effect.

[cyan crescent]

Well maybe perform an experiment with my current one. I have 2 screen protectors coming in from dbrand and 1 spare privacy protector. Use one as a test on my current one in use. Its cracked right now.

We shall see.

[jagged snow]

The bots are not alright
https://youtu.be/qnL5GuLUHzw?si=3XIrsl6yslVZrEW5

[twin dew]

Musk had again added extra text to be added to any prompt that the actual LLM got.

[dire igloo]

AI content is now officially demonetized on YT
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10008196?hl=en

[jagged snow]

Meaning he modified the system prompt?

Not surprising

And also not that weird, just the content that is

[twin dew]

Was the same case when Grok started to always talk about south africa and mass killings or something few months ago.

This time some mechahitler thing.

[jagged snow]

Getting closer to making an earbud purchase, does anyone have experience with the nothing cmf line of earbuds?

I'm really liking the featureset at the price point

[tough owl]

I was going to buy some from them but I want to try headphones again. soley based on that their ANC is not the best from what i've read and headphones with a good seal can offer better than they can with ANC on

[jagged snow]

Yup

This will be my first pair of buds with anc

And yeah, I really like everything about the creative buds except apparently poor build quality and noticably weak anc

I would really like something with aptX or LDAC support that actually has drivers that can produce solid sound

[dire igloo]

IEMs >>>

[tough owl]

no cable

[dire igloo]

skill issue

[jagged snow]

I'd love that if I was just wearing these for desk work

[dire igloo]

CX31993 if you ain't got a headphone jack

[dire igloo]

Yeah, wireless is strong if you're moving around the space a lot

[jagged snow]

Yep

I'll be wearing these in the gym and for some more physical labor

[dire igloo]

Got that at my desk job too, when I'm testing shit in the other half of my office

[jagged snow]

I'm aiming to upgrade my over ears at some point though

[tough owl]

I've butchered my hearing with loud music when I was younger. I cannot hear a massive difference when wired and when not

[jagged snow]

Oh interesting

[dire igloo]

I've worn IEMs for those types of things too - and while the cable was definitely annoying, a loose fit on earbuds was even worse

[jagged snow]

My hearing is mostly alright, been hit with a few explosions though and I hear noticeably less above 15k or so

[dire igloo]

Only way I found to have music during heavy motion was a BT speaker

[jagged snow]

I had a 20 dollar pair of wireless earbuds that was alright for the gym

[tough owl]

if I were to get one from nothing I would buy these /us.nothing.tech/products/ear-open?Colour=White

[dire igloo]

Go use BT audio on PC

[jagged snow]

A bit out of my price range unfortunately

[jagged snow]

Otherwise I really like them

[dire igloo]

I'm amazed that you're not suffering

[glossy glacier]

BT audio on windows sucks

[dire igloo]

Three different pairs of BT headphones/earbuds, three different PCs, all BT, all of them so bad I wanted to use built in speakers instead

[jagged snow]

From what I'm seeing those have noticeably poor soundq uality

[twin dew]

How so?
Mainly depends on the exact bluetooth adapter for what better codecs are supported.

[tough owl]

only thing that I can hear a difference is with cymbals and that kinda sounds, they are super muddy

[tough owl]

I would buy them for the fitment not audio quality ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jagged snow]

Does anyone have reccomendations for something better than the cmf 2plus in the 50-100usd price range

[twin dew]

The base BT audio codec sucks, that SBC

[dire igloo]

I had hella distortion with muffling in all but some areas, etc

[jagged snow]

Yeah, I'd really like the hook style if I could find some closed ones in that form factor for under 200

Oh well

[dire igloo]

Maybe Moondrop has smth?
I like their IEMs

[glossy glacier]

Sry, simultaneous BT audio + mic sucks
Something to do with the subsystem and bing limited in bw

[twin dew]

With mic active it is only mono audio meant for voice.

Same for ANY BT solution.

[jagged snow]

Mic active also priorizes lower latency

So it's going to be poor quality bidirectional stream with low latency

Which is better for calls

[tough owl]

They have so many models that I don't even know which one is good because theyre all priceed so similar

[twin dew]

Yeah, you really don't want to be trying to use Headset mode for music.
Need the Headphone mode with preferrably anything but SBC.

[dire igloo]

Alternatively, you have decent audio quality with hundreds of milliseconds delay

[twin dew]

So in this list, only that selected one with AAC is good, and that needs AAC support from both the BT adapter in the computer, and the headphones.

[dire igloo]

Which explains why I had such horrible experience at all these times - I tried them for headset use

[jagged snow]

Or you use aptX

Also does anyone have any idea what this means?

By default, the earbuds support SBC and AAC codecs. However, LDAC is available through the Nothing X app for compatible devices

[dire igloo]

"pls download our app so we can spy on you"

[tough owl]

seems like only via having the app that LDAC is initiated, via some blackmagic that the normal android bt handshake cant do

[twin dew]

That they support that base SBC audio codec, and AAC codec, and possibly LDAC codec but that might need extra work with that app.

[jagged snow]

Yeah I don't mind having the app

[twin dew]

But the device used to play also has to support same codec, and only that SBC is always available.

[jagged snow]

Yeah my phone has aptX and LDAC support

https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Lightweight-Wireless-Bluetooth-Lossless/dp/B0CSC2W1VY

Those would be my first pick, currently

They reviewed well professionally but the amazon reviews seem poor

[tough owl]

I've never heard of the brand before

[jagged snow]

Oh I've heard of them

They do lots in home av stuff

They've been around forever

[tough owl]

oh thats cool, im the typical consumer that buys from brands that I know

[jagged snow]

Didn't they buy the sound blaster brand at some point?

[twin dew]

Not heard of Creative before?
The old "standard" computer audio card maker that has since mostly died.

[tough owl]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twin dew]

It was always Creative.

[tough owl]

you forget my age

[jagged snow]

Oh it was always

So anyways
They've been around for a long time and do have a good name

[twin dew]

Creative was the company and Sound Blasters were the PC audio cards they produced.

[jagged snow]

From what I know they make some decently passable speakers and solid dacs

So anyways

[tough owl]

are those buds designed in house or with a partnership from some other company?

[jagged snow]

I'm not sure

They are some of the first xMEMS buds though, and they have aptX support

Which is quite cool

But people complain about build quality issues and apparently they can be buggy enough that amazon lists them as a frequently returned item

[twin dew]

And Creative as whole is way down from their heydays before Windows Vista.

[tough owl]

first os where I was really involved with what was going on was on a mac and then was introduced to windows was 10 close to initial release

[tough owl]

I wouldn't bother with a buggy product even if sound quality is good

[twin dew]

Basically Windows Vista changed Windows sound stack and made HW accelerated sound cards unusable.
So the floor fell from under Creative in their main PC side market, and they never really tried to get back up properly.

As in those HW acceleration features didn't work with DirectSound anymore.

Major stepdown in 3D sound quality for long time.

[night girder]

Mhm.

"mass-produced and repetitious content". 🤔
So also, stolen content?

[night girder]

Proof?

Because I've read post from developers that deny Musk has access to just add stuff to LLM.
Which already be a very weird thing for a CEO to just add a few lines and the whole LLM changes 🙄
Which doesn't happen in a work environment. Unless you give him an account with full blown power to push shit to production solo? Right.

[twin dew]

Not the LLM training.
But he has several times before done changes to that fed prompt to that LLM itself.

So it is "user prompt + musk prompt" instead of just "user prompt"

[night girder]

I think it's more likely it's disgruntled employees, they knew if they add that stuff to Grok, people think it's Musk.

Or, Musk has ordered for this to happen, but didn't directly change prompt.

But I don't see him opening up a browser. Add "anti semitism" as a line of code to github repo. And Grok starts to spew out this shit on production.

And if that does happen, Grok needs to be put down. Because nobody, solo, should have the power, to just change production environment of any software in such a big company.

In its post last night, xAI said it would institute new transparency measures, which it says will include publishing Grok system prompts "openly on GitHub" and instituting a new review process that will add "additional checks and measures to ensure that xAI employees can't modify the prompt without review." The company also said it would put in place a "24/7 monitoring team."

a new review process. Oh my oh my. I am 99% sure there wasn't a review process in place to begin with.

[twin dew]

Previous was that "white genoside in south africa" related stuff in may this year.
Where similar system prompt change caused Grok to keep talking about that:

In one example of Grok’s misbehavior, a user asked Grok about a professional baseball player’s salary, and Grok responded that “The claim of ‘white genocide’ in South Africa is highly debated.”

[night girder]

Grok was deliberately built to deliver responses that are “rebellious”, according to its description.

It could be this case. Or specific coded in to get attention.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but LLM model biasing is completely different than that prompt text stuffing.

[night girder]

Explain.