off-topic-tech

[twin dew]

He wanted to find out what happens, and the answer is: performance goes to shit.
But for some reason it is still in the main save and hasn't been removed, with archieved save version to retain it if wanted.

[pure karma]

well mostly cause as long as its not loaded its not a problem

it just chucks itself on ram as a ilusion and then you just forget about it

[drowsy coral]

why just why

[pure karma]

because i could

[dire igloo]

Hoh Lee, that's some crazy shit

[twin dew]

Large part how hard it is even for small company to get kernel driver signed today.
And single person has no chance.
So everyone uses those old pre-closeout drivers.

Unless you are part of large enough company.

[verbal raft]

im am trying so hard to not post the 4060 = 4050 meme : )

4K ????

240fps ?
3060 TI ?
max settings ??

[drowsy coral]

yuh

it looks amazing

[dire igloo]

Uhm

[verbal raft]

impossible

[drowsy coral]

and I got the 3060 for $280 used

[dire igloo]

How

[drowsy coral]

i have no idea lmao

[dire igloo]

Like, seriously, 4K 240fps on an UE5 game

[verbal raft]

i cant get 20fps on my 6600 when i do that

[drowsy coral]

yea, the DLSS really helps

[verbal raft]

(even without lumen)

[dire igloo]

Or is it just a 240hz monitor and the game actually runs at a much lower fps?

[drowsy coral]

and I have a 7800x3d

[drowsy coral]

I can tell it's above 120

Ultra smooth

the monitor is 240 so it's not really limited by that

[verbal raft]

i dont think you'd get 240 even IF you put DLSS to 50%

[dire igloo]

What setting? Omega turbo performance (render 360p, upscale by 6x)?

[dire igloo]

Yeah, that's not an actual number

[drowsy coral]

Nope it's on Quality mode :)

[verbal raft]

no way

[drowsy coral]

120fps isn't an actual number?

[verbal raft]

impossible

[dire igloo]

"above 120" isn't a number, no

Especially not since it's measured by vibe

[drowsy coral]

Well your eyes can't tell the difference between 200 and 240 fps so there's no way to tell

I'll install a FPS display thingy and see later

[verbal raft]

its a "gut feeling" number (so, no not reall)
i used to think i could get 60fps on my VEGA 3 in subnautica

even though it was actually 20

[twin dew]

"stat fps" ingame console.

But if you didn't have numbers, don't say you have numbers.

[drowsy coral]

gtg now, dm if you have any more questions about the magical 3060ti

[dire igloo]

Aren't there plenty of built in utilities for that?

[drowsy coral]

idk this is my first time using windows

[ivory rampart]

im getting 100 ish fps on 1440p with a 6950 xt, aint no way a 3060 is getting double that at 4k

the new X3d chips do boost performance a lot though

[verbal raft]

exactly my point

[ivory rampart]

5800 vs 7800 is a large difference for games like this

[dire igloo]

Not for GPU graphics shenanigans tho

[verbal raft]

i doubt you'd need a 7800 X3D to get more perf out of that 6950XT

[ivory rampart]

its more for the 0.1% lows

[dire igloo]

In lategame I'd say it's still quite beneficial

[ivory rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx4VlScd9xY

gues not only the lows

[twin dew]

CPU changes at how large save does the game turn into fully CPU limited, for the per frame game logic processing.

"stat unit" shows those numbers.

[verbal raft]

yeah, but if you are getting 100fps with a 5800X you arent insane with building shite
and the only time that really matters is if you are actually insane

if you arent insane (with building) you probably wont be CPU limited with a 6950 XT + 5800X

[dire igloo]

5800x or 5800x3d?

[ivory rampart]

im waitin for the Zen 6 X3D chips to upgrade, thats gonna be insane
from 5800X3d

[dire igloo]

Two distinctly different CPUs

[ivory rampart]

the 9800x3d is good, but i dont feel like it justifies the platform change just yet

the 5800x3d is the 1080 ti of CPUs

[dire igloo]

I love how satisfactory is so well optimized that the devs are running into engine limitations

[dire igloo]

I'd say more like a 2070

Not as old and more versatile

[ivory rampart]

yes, its amazing to see what devs can do

but at the same time a little sad, when you then go play other UE5 games and withness the stutter fest it often is

[dire igloo]

But you can't really find a GPU equivalent cuz in order to upgrade from 5800x3d, you'd have to also change MB and most likely RAM

[ivory rampart]

nah, i meant it as how amazing it still holds up and will continue to hold up for a good number of years

[dire igloo]

Also, idk how bad of a limit the engine itself is.
Could very well be that the engine limitations CSS are running into aren't even that deep into the optimization rabbithole and epic is just lazy with their engine efficiency

[verbal raft]

too bad it will bottleneck a 6700 XT in stutter 2

[ivory rampart]

huh?

[verbal raft]

(Stalker 2)
well
at some settings

that still make sense for that card

[ivory rampart]

i didnt look at the game much after seing how demanding it is on the hardware

dont care to be forced into upscaling for playable framerates

[verbal raft]

ARK smear ascended is the worst IMO

[ivory rampart]

all the ark stuff has always ran terrible

[verbal raft]

you just CANT play that game with an 8GB GPU

[verbal raft]

AND the resolution scale doesnt work
same with 75% of the settings

[ivory rampart]

i remember trying the first game when it was new.
was on a GTX 980 back then, wich was one of the best.
couldnt even get stable 50 to 60 fps at 1080p

[verbal raft]

yeah, 100%
i think smear ascneded is just as bad with optimization

[verbal raft]

i cant exactly get a semi constant 60fps at 1080p epic on my RX 6600

and the game has terrrible AA

[ivory rampart]

and thats a fair bit faster than a 980

[verbal raft]

sadley
ASA is the same
though TBF
the game does force TSR to run at 70% res scale
so it kinda makes sense why it looks awfull

[verbal raft]

well, yeah,
though i think they added more demanding settings to the game over time
so that also probably plays a role

[ivory rampart]

i hate it when games default to upscaling

[verbal raft]

its not that it just defaults
there is NO WAY to render at native res in the game settings

[twin dew]

Epic recommendation, which CSS for some idiotic reason followed...

[ivory rampart]

wait

[verbal raft]

you HAVE to use the console if you want native

[ivory rampart]

satisfactory defaults to upscaling?

[twin dew]

Yes.

[ivory rampart]

it runs so well, why would it need to

[twin dew]

Because that is the Epic recommendation 🤣

[verbal raft]

its still better than TAA IMO so IDK what your problem is

[ivory rampart]

thats so awfull.
but it makes sense.
with how much they are fucking up UE, they probably try to cover up bad performance

[verbal raft]

well i found that FSR/XeSS/TSR at 75% look better than TAA at 100%
especially if you start moving

[verbal raft]

ASA actively uses that sort of tactic to cover up poor perf

[ivory rampart]

ASA?

[verbal raft]

ARK's remaster

[ivory rampart]

man, UE5 looked so good when it was first anounced.
cant believe how much they fucked it up

[verbal raft]

they actually FORCE FSR FG (with no UI option of course)
and as the cherrry on top
they COULDNT EVEN GET IT RIGHT 🤣

here's what the frametime graph looks like

(and it feels like 40-30fps in person too)

[verbal raft]

the best part is
you can fix it with 2lines in the engine.INI LMFAO

[ivory rampart]

[verbal raft]

granted that was months ago

and i havent bothered to check without those 2 lines in a long time

maybe they fixed it
but
i dont care enough TBH

while im ranting about devs when they F-up their FSR implementations
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com/post/680d04ad6b7c57319636af55 (please upvote 🙂 )

its quite a BIG difference

though, it doesnt happen with lumen

[ivory rampart]

with FSr 4 and DLSS 4, the upscaling is finaly starting to be realy good

at least on quality

[drowsy coral]

For those of you who were there, sorry for quoting 240 FPS on 4k full highest settings in 3060ti, I could tell it was well above 120 and assumed it was 240 since that was the monitors highest

[pure karma]

have you ever considered even using something as simple as the built in fps monitor in steam

[twin dew]

And both AMD and Nvidia GPU drivers contain monitoring overlays including FPS.

Also Windows Game Bar has FPS display.

[pure karma]

and msi afterburner exists

[twin dew]

But that is one of the third party tools he might have mentioned.

[pure karma]

i just re-read what i read and made a realisation

intel just brought back sli but for vram

[twin dew]

What did you read?

[pure karma]

there isent much context but this is seemingly in reference to there card merge feature

[twin dew]

So no they didn't.
Just same as AMD and Nvidia where you can cram multiple GPUs into same system and they work semi-independently.
And both AMD and Nvidia high-end servers have direct GPU to GPU interlinks.

So just Intel trying to catch up where AMD and Nvidia have been for multiple generations already.

[pure karma]

so using 8 cards for a single process is not new

this isent 8 independent one this is 8 working together like sli

[twin dew]

No it isn't.
You are just misunderstanding the marketing.

[pure karma]

you can use the vram of multiple cards for one ai model

for example

[twin dew]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-infinity-fabric-3

Nvidias professional stuff for that market has NVLink and NVSwitch.

They didn't drop SLI in that space, just evolved it.

Then AMD has stuff like this: https://chipsandcheese.com/p/inside-the-amd-radeon-instinct-mi300as

For the datasheet/minimal marketing thing for MI300X, which is about what Intel is trying to go against with that new stuff: https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/instinct-tech-docs/data-sheets/amd-instinct-mi300x-platform-data-sheet.pdf

[twin dew]

Supercomputer that at least was the fastest in the world when completed based on those MI300A modules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Capitan_(supercomputer)

[willow pike]

openai chatgpt has been using this since the very beginning; no single GPU can hold a model of 500GB or 5TB

nvidia and amd have extremely advanced topologies for connecting multiple GPUs together

in AI datacenters, nvidia make about $50 billion a year, amd $5 billion, and intel less than $400 million

[twin dew]

And most of that is probably just as CPU platforms for Nvidia GPU systems.

Even when Nvidia is trying to get people to use their own ARM based platforms.

[willow pike]

i think it's specifically for MI300 hardware but I'll look later

meanwhile, every single AI gpu intel made has been late, slow, low yielding, cancelled, badly designed, or all of the above

[twin dew]

Which would be pretty weird, as those are made to work with AMD Epyc CPUs with those Infinity Architechture links (modified PCIe originally).

[willow pike]

ponte vecchio was like two years late, never got a successor; falcon shores got scaled back and I don't think it even came out

yep, cancelled

initially falcon shores was gonna mix CPU and GPU tiles; then they couldn't get that working so it was pure GPU; then in january they cancelled it

ponte vecchio was a weird multi headed hydra of different chiplet technologies that resulted in a late, expensive and underperforming chip that single handedly delayed the US's most expensive supercomputer by years

from 2018 to 2023

and it was half the speed initially promised

only ended up as the second fastest supercomputer, after one that used amd

[twin dew]

That El Capitan.

[willow pike]

so it bothers me to see intel showing up a dual gpu card as if it's something that's not been seen before

oof, not only is the intel aurora half the speed of el capitan, it uses triple the power

[twin dew]

And is even behind the older Frontier.

That uses third gen Epycs and MI250X:s.

[willow pike]

even 250 beats it?

that's downright embarrassing

[twin dew]

https://top500.org/lists/top500/2024/11/

[willow pike]

i may be confusing frontier and el captain

[twin dew]

Yeah, Frontier used to have the top spot until that newer El Capitan came online and was added in that last list.

This power efficiency rating helped El Capitan achieve No. 18 on the GREEN500 list as well.
So # 1 in number crunching ability is also # 18 in power efficiency

😂

[willow pike]

gotta go fast

still, 18 out of five hundred is pretty good

i wonder if aurora is even on that list

[twin dew]

It is the same 500 complexes ranked by power efficiency instead of max calculation potential.

https://top500.org/lists/green500/2024/11/

[willow pike]

64th place

lmao

when you scroll down the full list, el captain's compute power is so much higher than anything near the top of the list it looks like a typo

[twin dew]

Oh, I didn't even know Finland had the current 8th most powerful system... LUMI (Snow)

Third when it came online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUMI <- so very likely that acronym is backronym.

[tribal kraken]

Yeah that's the one in the old UPM paper mill at Kajaani.

Time flies. The paper mill was still operational when I worked in forestry sector Finland. It was one of the largest news paper mills in Europe. Cutted lot of Spruce pulp wood that went there

[manic cipher]

How old is portal?

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/hornbach-macher-dreck-dreckig-dirt-gif-13727953

that old 🙂

[safe trench]

SINGLE fan 5070?!?

[languid gulch]

so since openRGB is apparently a no-go, is there any decent free/open-source RGB software

[safe trench]

i heard if you get a demon core and close it using a screwdriver it might change rgb to cyan!

[minor scarab]

if you stand next to it for long enough if changes all colors to black forever

[dire igloo]

SignalRGB is good and free, but closed source and requires a login

Alternatively, there might be a way to mitigate WinRing0

[twin dew]

And uses the same WinRing0 driver.

Ah, changed in 2023.

So doesn't use it anymore.

[dire igloo]

ngl, I did not check for that, so very well might have

[twin dew]

Replaced in 2.2.30 with something else based on changelog.

Notable Changes
Winring0 is no longer used and has been removed from SignalRGB.

Winring0 will be uninstalled when 2.2.30 is installed if no other programs are actively using it.
Our new SMBus driver will be installed on the next launch of SignalRGB.

[languid gulch]

so does that mean it shouldn't have the same security issues?

[dire igloo]

Might have others cuz closed source, but yeah, WinRing0 ain't an issue with Signal

[twin dew]

Not that WinRing0 driver issues since that 2023-05-05 released update.
But like Fireworker said, might have other issues, but nothing publicly known.

Even MSI Afterburner in 2020 used WinRing0.

But AFAIK has since moved away from it.

[languid gulch]

i wonder how long all these companies knew that they were using massively insecure stuff

[twin dew]

SteelSeries and Razer also used that driver to some point.
Even Asus possibly did...

[pure karma]

thats basically everything ever made

[twin dew]

But in this case the project hasn't been mantained since 2011.

[soft bloom]

something happened with NVidia?

[twin dew]

Nothing?
That they have toxic relationship with reviewers and gamers just got more obvious to some people.

Or you referencing something else?

[soft bloom]

idk. but I see Steve and Jay videos about Nvidia but don't feel like investing 30 minutes each

[twin dew]

5060 launch.
Review samples not delivered to lot of reviewers.
Prerelease drivers only delivered to those that signed strict content limiting aggreements for "Preview".
Release timed so that most people are in Taiwan for big expo, to delay actual reviews to 1-2 weeks after the public availability.

[soft bloom]

sometimes I wish I could get the tl;dr version of what happens around delievered to me every morning in text form with a dense highlights in larger font...
almost sounds liek daily newspaper

[twin dew]

Because Nvidia knew the card is shit.

[soft bloom]

that's fucked up

maybe people will learn to not pre-order/rush-by

[twin dew]

The preview only allowed specific games, with specific settings, against 2060 TI and 3060.
With no FG for those two, and (M)FG for 5060.

Nvidia didn't even bother asking if GN or HUB was willing to sign their agreement for that "5060 Preview" access.

Jay got review sample GPU, but no early drivers.
GN didn't even get sample.

No idea if HUB got sample, no driver access at least.

Rehashing lot of other stuff about previous cases of Nvidia pressuring large and small reviewers and card makers etc. too.

[charred relic]

nvidia is a pile of shit

tbh

[twin dew]

Yes, been for long time.
Coming from the CEO wanting to be in control of everything, even inside partner and reviewer side.

[charred relic]

Yeah but just when you think the jerkoffs couldn't be bigger jerkoffs they're like 'hold my beer'

[willow pike]

people keep buying them, so they have no incentive to not be shit

[twin dew]

Yeah, this is Jensen trying to force same complete control shit through time and time again.

[charred relic]

Ah well I've been happy with my AMD stuff, 3700x was a workhorse for awhile, had a nvidia card then switched to AMD

[twin dew]

And then throwing some low level peons under the bus when it blows up.

[charred relic]

I don't shop high end so AMD not competeting there couldn't matter less to me personally

[jagged snow]

GN video's biggest complaint wasn't 5060, it was that nvidia was threatening to deny them interview requests with nvidia employees unless they modified their coverage in other videos to include mfg content

[twin dew]

Yeah, goes into that general hostility to any non-controlled reviews etc.
Forgot.

[charred relic]

Yes, they are behaving like a child.

"Well im taking my toys and going HOME wahhhhh"

[twin dew]

Where they cannot control GN with access to cards, access to drivers, access to money etc.

So they try to control with access to employees for interviews and tech dives.

But those other controls are even worse, and affect LOT of reviewers around the world.

[charred relic]

Police Simulator.. I wonder how hard you can abuse this game.

I can already do real life police similator... just call my nephew and do a ridealong

i'll get to vest up and everything

[soft bloom]

so great that there's some media that can stand against companies, in some way

[charred relic]

Steve from GN doesn't seem like the type to take anybodys shit heh

None of the guys I typically watch are down with it and are talking about it. Which is fantastic, more people need to know.

[tough owl]

helldivers 2, welcome to the 100gig club

[charred relic]

And this is why I called an audible when I picked up my parts and switched from a 2TB nvme to a 4TB

I saw a 4 on sale, still a bit pricey but a decent price so I got it

[soft bloom]

I wonder what makes the difference between them and more classic general-topic mass media that is easily bought to talk about anything anyhow

[charred relic]

They don't have typically have corporate overlords for one heh

[soft bloom]

in my country, it wasn't a problem at all for certain opposing forces to launch campaigns

[charred relic]

Smaller more streamlined outfits is the thing anyhow

Even the early online adopters are viewed as relics now... the "missing link media"

[twin dew]

And in both cases it is about the personal morals of the owners. (Steves)

[charred relic]

They all got big, bloated and controlled by people who cared more aobut money and status than consumers...

You know the saying. Either die young or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I think a lot of these current smaller outfits will be fine though

As long as they're careful with sponsorships and such anyhow, which they seem to be. Then they can also generate a lot of their revenue with merch/support of fans.

[twin dew]

And GN and HUB are large enough to not need Nvidia that directly anymore.
Lot of the smaller are very dependant on Nvidias goodwill.

[charred relic]

Not sure how Steve deals with that hair though. He has that thick shit like mine and I used to have long hair when I was a teenager

what a giant pain the ass it was, 19 I went 1/8th inch guard heh

Some jaws hit the floor when people saw me after hahaha because it was halfway down my back before

I also messed with people first day by shaping a pyramid on top of my head... so yeah that was a thing

[sterile plinth]

yall is there such thing as quality on an adapter

if i buy the cheapest hdmi to RCA adapter i can find there's no chance it will give "low quality" output right? It never loses bitrate or anything like that

[dire igloo]

there is, but it primarily applies for analog signals

for digital, it'd have to be really bad quality to create transmission issues - which is still absolutely realistic

[willow pike]

https://tenor.com/view/matt-berry-it-crowd-gif-24255290

[charred relic]

The digital side will likely be pretty in your face about it if it's a problem. The analog side is... well

analog... so a lot of factors can matter there

[twin dew]

Yes, the adapter quality will make difference in image quality when you are converting to analog signal.
Even more if converting to or from just single RCA-plug composite signal, and not multi-plug component signals.

Or from analog signal to HDMI.

[sterile plinth]

how can I even judge quality on them though?

[charred relic]

Not really sure how those converts work or if any electronics involved would color the signal but yeah analog is a different beast

[sterile plinth]

realistically, the chance that it will mention the name of the chip inside, if it even has a name is close to zero

[twin dew]

ADC or DAC.
If Composite to HDMI, first need to receive, sync to and then digitize that analog signal, then send it out as HDMI.
In other direction, need to generate the right analog waveform with DAC from the HDMI signal.

[charred relic]

I'll usually spend on a cable to just get something good

I do so little with analog now personally tho

[willow pike]

i would question why you wanna go to or from RCA

even retro consoles have better options

[sterile plinth]

oh, i found an old CRT tv in my basement and want to try it out

[willow pike]

you can buy SNES cables that go to HDMI and do proper deinterlacing

[charred relic]

That's something I've been toying with the idea of... collecting a few retro consoles from my childhood

[sterile plinth]

i think it would pair well with some older series made in 4:3 aspect ratio

[charred relic]

like an Atari 2600 and Colecovision

[willow pike]

RCA will not do it justice; don't it got anything better

i do respect the retro TV hustle though

[twin dew]

RCA connectors are used for all the various analog video options, outside of SCART?

[charred relic]

CRT's are still great for retro

[willow pike]

s-video too

[twin dew]

Just different amounts and different usages.

[sterile plinth]

i'm gonna have a 2nd look

[charred relic]

Too bad a lot of people are jacking up the price selling them as "retro"

[twin dew]

Ok, that is between single-RCA composite and three-RCA component signals.

[sterile plinth]

arent retro game consoles multiple hundred dollars at this point

[willow pike]

ye

[twin dew]

As it contains separate B&W and separate color signals.

[charred relic]

Not sure I havnn't priced Colecovsions or 2600's in years

[sterile plinth]

i was wondering if there was some sort of emulator for these old game consoles

if you have the CRT tv and can just emulate the games

[charred relic]

I'd be willing to attempt repair if one is sold cheap enough 🙂

[sterile plinth]

then its kind of a win-win, you get the old feel of the TV and the game

[charred relic]

I need to excuse to buy an oscilloscope 😄

Emulators are neat but... I want the whole experience.

The controls, plugging a cart in

[willow pike]

there's emulators for everything

what did you have in mind

[charred relic]

Plus as I said it would be a limited interest, really only 2 or 3 consoles I'd want to collect

[sterile plinth]

you think they'd work with modern controllers?

[charred relic]

good lord everybody and their brother makes scopes now lol

[sterile plinth]

one thing there's no way to emulate sadly is lightgun games

[charred relic]

Actually...

[willow pike]

light guns would be an interesting problem but might work on a crt

[charred relic]

Well not sure about emulation but they can be made to work on LCD

[sterile plinth]

you would need a light gun game console

[charred relic]

that's what it was...

[sterile plinth]

i do have a CRT, what i dont have is the console

[willow pike]

other than that you can rebind emulators on any console you want

[charred relic]

pretty sure that's the same one from the same console my brother had...

[sterile plinth]

might get a mini PC to hook up to it

www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005234874016.html

[willow pike]

try this www.analogue.co

[sterile plinth]

I bought this one recently, been using it to host websites and mc servers. Extremely good value for money

[charred relic]

Well I found an article about just using aftermarket guns but I would have sworn one dude modified an original gun to work

[twin dew]

Depends on type.
Two major types.
One saw the scanning beam of CRT, cannot be made to work with LCDs.
Other saw the brightness output of the actual screen, works with LCDs but the delay can be problem.

[charred relic]

I think in the one that used a different sensor and some other stuff, it was way too involved. But it's nice that the aftermarket ones like hyperkin will work

apparently people have also modified roms to be compatible too

[twin dew]

Well, I wouldn't count full insides replacement combined with possible ROM modding as making the original compatible with LCD.

[charred relic]

A bit part of the prlblem is just the photo sensor

an LCD can't even do what it wants heh

[twin dew]

Point is that that first type doesn't have photo sensor at all.
That type worked only when the CRT scanning was fully direct from the input.
IIRC NES used that, and SNES moved to photo sensor.

[charred relic]

Timing is a big thing too

the timing is harder than the sensor part probably, you can replace those with whatever you need

[twin dew]

First types advantage was that it didn't flash the screen or like like the second has to do over several frames.

[charred relic]

I have a 20" CRT that's been on a shelf for ages... I'd probably just use that if I got something with a light gun

[twin dew]

Because it detected that scanning beam directly, so it could say where the gun was pointed on the screen during single frame.
But doesn't tolerate any delay inside the TV like almost anything later has.

Needed to be direct input to scanning beam, without any processing with latency.

[charred relic]

and a certain frequency

The first light gun game I saw was pretty impressive at the time... it was this BIG arcade thing

with a live action video lol

Then laserdisc madness hit. Those games were interesting and somewhat fun due to the novelty but as far as an actual games goes it barely was one lol

Cliifhanger was neat because it used footage from Lupin

Bluth was great but all of those games ended up looking kinda the same

[verbal raft]

LMFAO

8GB of VRAM + the way Jensen intends you to play

[sterile plinth]

alright i did some research

to do crt emulated gaming i need a few things:
an old amd card (r9 380)
CRT Emudriver, a custom driver for old radeon cards which can make their output 15Khz (needed for crt displays)

and for the software GroovyMAME, and hyperspin as a frontend

seems these old cards are the only way.

My two CRT tvs are a Sony KV-13M10, and a Funai 20A131. Sony is regarded one of the best companies and Funai probably the worst company to make crt TVs, but i think im gonna use the big one purely because its 20 inches

[twin dew]

New ones don't have analog outputs anymore at all.
And in between the composite output was dropped at some point, only supporting full RGB.
Which many TVs or like cannot input.

[sterile plinth]

yeah, thankfully the big one (the Funai) has SCART

[twin dew]

As monitor VGA is with five lines, two sync signals and three colors.
And not with three with one sync included in green signal

[twin dew]

Still not same.

[sterile plinth]

i know

these old cards are like 40$ anyway, guess ill get one

[twin dew]

Two different 3-signal versions.
EU mostly used RGB with that sync on green.
US mostly used YCbCr with sync in Y IIRC.

Sorry, YPbPr for analog.

Ok, remembered wrong, seems that with SCART RGB, the composite line is often used for sync signal instead.

Instead of Sync on Green.

[sterile plinth]

you know, I was a bit confused on the card thing.

They said only cards up to the R9 380x or older could be used with CRT-Emudriver to achieve the 15k Hz thing. What is so special about it? is it just some hardware thing?

[twin dew]

That CRT-Emu is modified specific version Radeon driver.

So needs GPU that is supported by the base.

[sterile plinth]

what I mean is, is there some particular reason they havent modified any newer radeon drivers

does the hardware of newer cards not allow for such a thing

[twin dew]

It does now support newer GPUs it seems with CRT Emudriver 2.0, if this is the actual source, last updated in 2019.
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

Seems to be.

But that 2.0 is officially still beta, and seems to have stopped development.
But 1.2B only supports up to HD4000-series?

Ah, no, that was for Catalyst 9.3 based subversion, there is that 13.1 subversion too.

With not listed GPU support.

[sterile plinth]

im unsure myself, almost every thread ive seen about is someone going with an 300 series card

360, 380, maybe an HD even older one

[twin dew]

That 1.2B with Catalyst 13.1 base should support up to HD7000?

So that 2.0 should support up to RX500 and Vega.

And lot of Vega based AMD APUs that were used until Zen 4.
Anything up to 6000-series CPUs has one at least.

If they have IGP.

So basically anything that can work with up to Adrenalin 18.5.1.

[twin dew]

So basically the driver hack maker did keep updating to newer Radeon drivers with some delay, but has stopped the work in 2019, so last drivers released are based on 2018 AMD release.

So any AMD card that works with driver versions 6.5 - 18.5.1 is supported in some OS with CRT Emudriver 1.2 or 2.0.

Where older cards only work in XP, and newer ones in Win7 or Win7/8/10.

[sterile plinth]

that includes the rx580 im quite sure

you think its just tradition then that everybody uses old cards then?

[twin dew]

Or following outdated guides etc.

Some of the first results I got were from 2012.

[twin dew]

That is that RX500 generation, that is the second to last before Vega to be supported.

So yes with that Adrenalin 18.5.1 based 2.0 subversion.

Or that the newer less tested modded drivers for the newer cards have some issues that no-one mentions but why they were at some point suggested to be not used.

Which might or might not be fixed in the last released version.

Basically anything before 2018 would probably been not to use HD5000 or newer because there was bug with composite sync that was fixed in 2.0 beta 13.

etc.

With stuff like this, old recommendations live long past when they are actually reasonable.
Because most people parroting the recommendations have no idea why they were the recommendations and if those reasons still apply or not.

And that recommendation for R# 300 series would be from between that 2018 released beta 13, and 2019 released beta 15.
As RX400/RX500/Vega wasn't supported until that beta 15.

[sterile plinth]

well, those cards are cheaper anyway so i think ill go with 300 series

a shame i cant find any lighgun for sub 50$

[midnight osprey]

does anyone know a way to auto skip ads on youtube? I pay for premium but hoping to get rid of in video ads

[languid gulch]

firefox+ublock

[midnight osprey]

oooh, I have ublock

didn't know it could do that too, lol

I was using it to not show toxic comments

[languid gulch]

tends not to work on chrome/edge since those are both chromium, owned by google

[midnight osprey]

ah, I am using Vivaldi

[languid gulch]

vivaldi's chromium too

[midnight osprey]

yep, it's too powerful to drop

I would need tons of plugins just to get what combes by default in it

[languid gulch]

could just use firefox for youtube 🤣

[midnight osprey]

lol, silly my mind didn't even go there!

[sterile plinth]

adblocker?

[languid gulch]

not necessarily the most efficient option

[sterile plinth]

oh vivaldi

i thought the entire marketing point around youtube premium was that you get no ads?

[midnight osprey]

and thats why it frustrates me!

cos I am happy to pay for premium ... I use youtube music too instead of the likes of apple music or spotify

[languid gulch]

pay money, still have ads. to the high seas!

[midnight osprey]

yeah, piss take

they cannot enforce it ... surely the ones trying to make money of affiliate sales would just find another platform

[sterile plinth]

the only reason i use youtube music is because its easier to crack

but i like the gigantic availability of songs too

use uBlock on PC and ReVanced on phone

and you will never get ad again

[thin trout]

@ivory rampart@twin dew Since i mentioned it the other day - i've actually found a few phone camera pics that show off just how ridiculous the brightness shifting on the new eTN panel (used for 540-600hz displays) is. I found it literally unplayable, top 1/3 of the screen covered in this dark haze unless eyeline is literally above the top of the screen which is quite unnatural and bad ergonomics. Also still present even then, just less severe.

https://i.imgur.com/j0y0ej2.jpeg

^eTN

https://i.imgur.com/fjtnBPd.jpeg

^fast IPS

This is literally the same screenshot. See the area around the side of the staircase:

More smooth is more better, but if you can't see the smoothed thing then it's worthless in practicality. At the end of the day you need to see things on your monitor; not being able to see what you're looking at hurts you more than going from 380hz IPS to 600hz TN can help you.

VRR is also pretty important, such that i found VRR'd 380hz IPS to be generally smoother than fixed refresh 480hz OLED unless the game framerate was very high (e.g. ~960+fps)

[twin dew]

Works fine still in Edge.
Not in Chrome, and Edge will stop working about 6 months in future.

Because of Chrome removing and Chromium depricating the V2 plugin API where the V3 plugin API is much more restrictive for adblockers.

Because MS intents to remove that from Edge once it is removed from Chromium, around change of year IIRC.

Lot of jabs at Nvidia included...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UknscCm4Y6Y

[languid gulch]

oh, ublock stopped blocking youtube ads for me months ago in edge

[twin dew]

Some settings fib in your config.
If it wasn't just one day issue.

[languid gulch]

oh i screwed around with it for days trying to get it to work

it'd just do the youtube player black screen at best

[twin dew]

Ah, yeah, there was some problemfew months back that needed something to be done, but cannot remember what and cannot find anything about it anymore.
For me it just caused that none of the videos autoplayed and had to refresh the page once to play at all,

[dire igloo]

False balance bullshit once again.
"If one person says it's raining and another says it's sunny, your job as a journalist is not to quote them both but to look out the window and report the truth."

[twin dew]

Higher level knowing that releasing that would cause Nvidia to pull money etc. so not allowing it.

[dire igloo]

Yep, that too

[twin dew]

Note the first message, where it says that Nvidia had proactively been in contact with the higher levels to keep that stuff under wraps (or "balanced").

Or money would go away basically.

[dire igloo]

Yeah, modern day media is fucked

Welcome to fckn capitalism

And then there's the journalist who wants to do good and gets punished financially - and you can't even blame them for it, they're a puppet of the wealthy

[languid gulch]

you know someone has too much money when they start spending money to make sure that others don't have as much money as them

[dire igloo]

tho this is a prime example why people are being kept poor.
As long as they have to think about survival, they can't think about systemic changes

[languid gulch]

ok, since i wasn't a pc gamer 20-25ish years ago when rasterization took off, how long did it take raster GPUs to hit playable fps after it was introduced in games?

[twin dew]

Games were rasterized even before GPU acceleration existed?
So straight away as the first 3D accelerators were explicitly made to get multiple times more FPS than without them in supported games?

Quake vs GLQuake for example, where base Quake is software rendered, and GLQuake was the Mini-OpenGL version with HW-acceleration support.

[languid gulch]

trying to find some other "display-changing" thing like ray tracing where even after almost a decade & 4 generations, it's still not that amazing of a change, and the hardware still feels inadequate, even at the top

[twin dew]

There basically hasn't been.

As far as I can remember.

[languid gulch]

i'm kinda surprised that any companies are still using to tbh

implementations must have gotten cheaper than normal lighting methods

[midnight osprey]

I use iPhone unfortunately

Goodness me. I remember the days of even less than 256 colours. lol

[pure karma]

I only know 2 colours

Green and black

[verbal raft]

💀

[willow pike]

where was this

[twin dew]

Comments of the GNs video, "NVIDIA's Dirty Manipulation of Reviews": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiekGcwaIho

[willow pike]

gotcha

[verbal raft]

huh

[pure karma]

i hate games that behave based off your cpu clock speed so much

[mental oriole]

ooof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j_UzNtwZHg

[willow pike]

thanks Steve

[charred relic]

Not all heroes wear capes...

I only really have a surface level understanding of what a race condition is at the moment

[safe trench]

this is what happens when you have 8 brain cells and not 5

[glossy glacier]

vulnerability in the branch prediction
again?

[gilded helm]

What was bottom dollar on the RX6800? 16GB has been available at or under $350 since 2022?

[mental oriole]

Yup.

[ivory rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/256272951215652864/1370073050619576402/togif-19.gif

who would have thought that loading instructions without knowing if they should be loaded could lead to security risks

[verbal raft]

https://tenor.com/view/thanks-steve-intel-gamers-nexus-thanks-steve-gif-2570818544130153718

[charred relic]

Cmon UPS!

[safe trench]

just 3d print the monitor at this point

[charred relic]

it would have been faster...

[safe trench]

i heard putting random chemicals with other random chemicals creates a fun bath bomb used for monitor cleaning!

[charred relic]

I just use pure isopropyl alcohol...

[charred relic]

Yeah I can get used to this...

Like immediately noticed it's way smoother

Very smooth, like muh brain

[charred relic]

And now I don't need a USB hub or card, the 3 I gain from the baked in hub gets everything covered.

[median olive]

I was thinking about camera equipment after the dev stream the other day and it occurred to me: I might have the same camera as Jason and Mikael (going off Jason’s intro video).

After the overheating from this week’s stream, I’ve been thinking about cooling the thing. And then I remembered I have one of those neat little phase-change phone coolers.
Tried it out on the back of the camera, and it fits like a glove (but it might be finicky to get seated properly with a tripod or mounting plate).
The one I have from razer can’t be powered off the camera’s USB-C port, I’m guessing the camera simply can’t deliver enough power, but a standard USB port from a wall outlet or a USB port on a phone or PC usually has the juice for it.
@prime elm hope you don’t mind the ping, I felt like this could have significant potential to solve the overheating issues. 🫶

[languid gulch]

been trying to help someone in another discord solve their overheating issues. 2060FE, and it's been hitting max temp while running a game that gets 100fps+ on integrated graphics

we've already recommended a repaste

[charred relic]

refluxulate the carbonator

Asssuming the fans are spinning up normally... and no obstructions/dust build up i dunno

repaste...water cooling lol

I'd start to worry about contact pads... i'd probably make sure i had replacements on hand

(if I were going to be taking the heatsink off to repaste)

[soft bloom]

nice, I broke headless browser and made it womit some trace with hexes

[charred relic]

Nice work 😄

[visual tree]

Great, now they started mixing 5G with 5 ghz.... https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/s/AQ3Xi4k8CZ

[charred relic]

LOL

https://tenor.com/view/puppet-awkward-looking-what-side-eye-gif-15476992

It's all that 5ghz that makes them this way...

[twin dew]

Saying WiFi causes issues has been thing for long time too among the idiots.

[visual tree]

It's worse now because they genuinely believe 5 ghz and 5G are the same thing

Wait till they notice 6 ghz

[languid gulch]

should have them hop into a 2004 corvette and see if they get sick

[charred relic]

Wait till they found it out it's really HAM operators in their radio shed controlling their minds via shortwave

https://tenor.com/view/antenna-dipole-antenna-dipole-radio-gif-25167372

[visual tree]

I think there is a radio amateur nearby my home. Noticed a small house with a gigantic antenna on roof

[languid gulch]

maybe we should park a bunch of F-35s near their house

[charred relic]

Yep probably a HAM

[languid gulch]

see if that'd give them an aneurysm or something

[charred relic]

They like to get em up high... and like to use directional stuff a lot of times

[languid gulch]

actually, ya know what, i agree with them, it's making them sick. so let's stick all those people in one area that's radio silent, without any communications equipment. just a monthly visit from mail delivery on foot

[visual tree]

The smallest one on the bottom is TV but the larger one looks like HAM antenna

[charred relic]

not sure what ranges that will work on, was popular with 11 meter CB guys. Directional with great rear rejection. Also has vertical and horizontal (or as they sometimes call it "flatside")

Yeah he's got a nice vertical with a ground plane

I've talked to california on 4 watts

the sun and atmopheric conditions were great that night though

[visual tree]

I should get HAM radio in case war breaks out so you can communicate without using a phone line or cellular signal

[charred relic]

taslking from east coast to texas which is halfway point basically was fairly common at 4w even on mediocre stuff

That was the 11 meter CB limit herre (legal limit)... at one point I had a 1000w amp and my neighbor was a truck driver

[languid gulch]

i suspect that if/when war breaks out, a ham radio ain't gonna be on anyone's short list of things to need

[charred relic]

comes out one night and said damn eric you are bleeding over everything except the toaster

they could hear me on the tv lol

I had to go somewhere and park... away from people heh

[languid gulch]

reminds me of the old guy with the ancient tv in the UK screwing up everyone's signal

[charred relic]

those office light tubes... yeah i could light one up a couple inches from the antenna

[languid gulch]

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180

[visual tree]

There are a lot of radio amateurs around the world you can talk to at the moment afaik

[charred relic]

There are still diehard CB guys... like huge directional antenna on SUV's... it's completely silly at this point

[languid gulch]

i'd love to have one just to talk with the ISS directly

[charred relic]

and amps strong enough you really don't want to be right in front of the antenna...

plasma burns = ouchies

outside fine... inside baked like a christmas ham 😄

or... like one of those hot dogs like from those striaght AC voltage hot dog cookers from the 80's

it did indeed cook the hot dog... and damn fast too

think it would do 4... or 6 at once... my dad quickly regretted that purchase

[languid gulch]

i suspect that's where the conspiracies come from

[charred relic]

It was quite a dangerous device... it was a diffent time for sure lol

[visual tree]

ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html

[charred relic]

everybody knows space isn't real

[visual tree]

[charred relic]

never mind the fact that a good pair of binics and more than 2 brain cells that are at war with each other you can like... see the ISS

I cam across one guy convinced that we are in a dome that we can't escape. But they also believe that aliens exist and have been on the planet. You can't make it make sense...

Do they not have a dome? How do you know? How do they get through our inpenetrable dome...

[visual tree]

Technicality, I am trapped on a sphere from which I won't be able to escape in my lifetime lol

[charred relic]

true

[visual tree]

Maybe future generations will if we don't kill each other

[charred relic]

nor will i unless recreational space flights come WAY down in price

i'd settle for a ride on the vomit comet but even that is pricey AF

[visual tree]

I hope we won't have a scenario from Snowpiercer where the rich and greedy destroy the environment and then build a long self-sustainable train (only for the rich though)

[charred relic]

Also it's kinda cool knowing we'd be diving so fast we match the terminal velocity of a human in freefall

Well here it's not a train but essentially the same thing exists

there are complete setups for the government to retreat to... and other people deemed important enough

[visual tree]

snowpiercer.fandom.com/wiki/CW-7

"CW-7 proved to be too effective and instead froze the planet, starting a new ice age so extreme that no life could survive it. Before CW-7 was released, Joseph Wilford predicted that CW-7 would freeze the planet, which led him to convert Snowpiercer from a Luxury Liner to an Ark."

[languid gulch]

i do suspect that someone super rich will do something insanely stupid like dump a bunch of sulfur into the atmosphere to try to cool the planet

[visual tree]

Don't give them ideas!

[charred relic]

I think part of the problem is patience can be tough. So some seem to feel like they either have to do all out to save things... the other options means they'll have no idea what it's like in say 500 or 1000 years to see what the natural progression is at this point or if it falls into the usual patterns

I'm all for clean energy and all that jazz, but at a reasonable pace. Use what we know works well and have now and work on the rest over time

[languid gulch]

reasonable pace to me is removing fossil fuel capacity as renewable comes online

[charred relic]

It'll improve at it's natural pace, not like it will just stop.

[visual tree]

Yeah, I suppose fosil fuel will still be used in 2050

[languid gulch]

oh 100%

[charred relic]

And that's fine... we'll be fine if we still use some in 2100

[visual tree]

Although at much lower percentage hopefully

[languid gulch]

we're still using wood fires to cook food after like 200k years

[charred relic]

by then we'll probably be off it entirely though, or almost anyhow

[pure karma]

were still going to be burning fuel and throwing batteries into the ocean on top so were not helping ourselfs 🤣

[charred relic]

That and not all green solutions are entirely green anyhow

[languid gulch]

i attended a lecture about 15 years ago, by a billionaire investor who used to be in oil, and then shifted almost overnight to renewables

[charred relic]

we just need a dyson sphere 😄

[visual tree]

I am planning on getting solar panels installed by an oil company which is ironic lol

[charred relic]

They have or at least had some incentives here but they don't nearly compensate enough so virtually nobody does it

[languid gulch]

he had a coal plant guy talk to him and let him know that the average coal and oil plant is near replacement age, and given the fuel prices & maintenance costs, it'll be a net loss to run them, vs renewables that keep getting cheaper & easier to maintain over time

[visual tree]

The oil company is getting diversified though. They don't just sell car fuel but energy solutions too

[charred relic]

Whatever happened with those solar shingles? Those were at least nice looking

[languid gulch]

they're still around

just not big sellers

even less so now because they're tesla

[twin dew]

Basically more expensive than normal cheap roofing + separate solar power system.
And not any better, just better looking.
With some downsides etc.

[charred relic]

As I recall they weren't as efficient

but like if i can just plaster my roof with it and it look like a normal roof im ok with that

[languid gulch]

oh yea you give up a lot for the look

[charred relic]

Probably some places here were they wouldn't even allow regular panels

[languid gulch]

plus the inefficiency is kinda made up for a bit since you can cover your entire roof, and not just have smaller panels mounted

[charred relic]

HOA's can be... well they're usually annoying

that's what i was thinking you'd be able to get the entire thin

[languid gulch]

to me that's the opposite of progress

force HOAs to like solar in whatever form it takes

[charred relic]

I'd be ok with regular panels on the back side of the house... i'd even be ok with something on the ground in the back

[languid gulch]

i like the wobbly dick of power myself

[charred relic]

And on that day in 9th grade gym class... Eddie truely earned the nickname "Boner"

[languid gulch]

lol

[charred relic]

I wonder if that still stands true... I swear when I was in school EVERY year somebody got that nickname... almost always in gym

to be fair they let the girls get away with some shorts...

[pure karma]

still do... altho only for the volleyball team

[charred relic]

it's those damn sweats man... impossible to hide!

[languid gulch]

it uses turbulence generated by the wind to wobble, with a reciprocating generator in its base. no big fan blades, and all the mechanical stuff is on the ground & easy to access for maintenance

[charred relic]

I have gastro issues... could probably power it with my backside

[jagged snow]

"I wonder if it crashed because they're using windows... at least they're not using Firefox" - my gf

[languid gulch]

........

[charred relic]

Anybody that was actually worried about cow farts was worried about the wrong bhole

😄

[pure karma]

2 rights make a wrong

or somethign like that 😂

[charred relic]

well 2 wrongs don't make a right... but three rights makes a left

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[pure karma]

true that

[charred relic]

And by then everybody forgot what the wrong thing was so it's all good 😄

[languid gulch]

you can use firefox on linux & mac, that's how i'll square the logic

[charred relic]

or a raspberri pi or similar lol

[languid gulch]

can you run windows on a pi?

[charred relic]

no firefox

[languid gulch]

stop that

🤣

[charred relic]

"Firefox Nightly Now Available for Linux on ARM64"

[languid gulch]

seriously tho, can you run windows on a pi

[charred relic]

and bleeding edge if you want

[pure karma]

idk probably

[charred relic]

eh no

[languid gulch]

are they ARM?

[jagged snow]

WoA works on the newer models

[charred relic]

at least not in the conventional sense anhow, i think they have some arm thing but it wasn't really windows

can't remember the details it's been years since i even had a pi

[jagged snow]

Windows on arm is full featured windows

[languid gulch]

resurrect the windows phone!

[jagged snow]

Surface laptops are arm

It works pretty well

[jagged snow]

As well as the new snapdragon windows laptops

[languid gulch]

are there any phones that are x86?

[charred relic]

GIMP loaded faster on my Pi in linux than it did on my main desktop in windows...

few things did actually

Think i had a 3b

[jagged snow]

Not since the '00s and even then it doesn't really count as a phone

[charred relic]

This might explain it... when i looked into it... was before the surfaces hit the market lol

[languid gulch]

had a feeling

[charred relic]

so it def would not have been in the same state at that point for sure

man i didn't think it was that long ago when i bought that thing but i got it around the time that model came out, time flies

Now I want a new one... to put windows on, because blasphemy

[pure karma]

winberry pie

[sterile plinth]

happens to me often. My N100 mini pc loads arch linux in 3 seconds from the moment you press power button, my normal PC (very fast) does it in 15

[charred relic]

This new monitor is a real... game changer

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tuss-jokes-gotcha-burn-ouch-gif-5645546

[pure karma]

in fairness half the boot time of a pc nowadays is the bios flash screen

[sterile plinth]

this is shit

i went to fb marketplace to look for good deals on old PCs

and half the listings are ads for scam websites

[pure karma]

well duh

[sterile plinth]

like "rtx 3080 ryzen 7 PC 99 euro" and the listing description "i bought the pc from X site, been using it for a week and its had no problems. If you want a cheap website for PCs, check it out! "

[pure karma]

there fishing for old people

[sterile plinth]

nah but like look at this

www.ezoom.top
www.whol.top

90 euro iphone... most blatant scam

[dire igloo]

Either that or gullible children with parent's credit card

Or just any internet-illiterate person

[sterile plinth]

anyway ebay looks to be shit it has 40 euro shipping + 15 euro import tax for almost everything, yall got any european alternatives to buy 50euro old dell optiplexes

i just need an old amd 350 or 370 2gb card and an optiplex without it running me 150 euro

[twin dew]

Why those specific cards?

If you are about that TV output card, those are only recommendations as they were the most powerful cards that were supported at certain point in time in past.

And you don't even need a powerful card.

The recommendation before that was HD4350 with passive cooling.

As RX400-series and newer wasn't supported.

As those were cheap, plentiful and good enough.
And very low power usage etc.

With HD5000 and up having easier way to set Sync on Green output.

[jagged snow]

Worst password requirements I've ever seen

[dire igloo]

• ≥8 characters - I'd like more, but it's fine
• ≤20 characters - yikes, big nono
• ≥1 number - good
• ≥1 upper case letter - good
• ≥1 lower case letter - good
• no @ or < - yikes, sanitize your inputs
• exclude SkyMiles number - valid
• exclude email - valid
• exclude username - valid
• ≤3 special characters - yikes

What I noticed: they should exclude not just entire usernames/emails, but also parts of them

[jagged snow]

Yeah it's
Pretty rough

Why limit special characters, I don't know

[dire igloo]

That's the biggest bullshit requirement out of all of them

Also, get some fuckin storage space, 20 characters minimum? Holy shit

[jagged snow]

Yeah, my normal is 30

[dire igloo]

Or just don't store the passwords in any form

[jagged snow]

You should never be storing a password

Literally never

[dire igloo]

Store a hash with consistent length and calculate it locally during login, only comparing hashes

No need for artificial length limitations, just need to sanitize inputs locally

Also: German infosec agency recommends either regularly changing a ≥8 character long password or picking one with ≥20 characters

[jagged snow]

I understand capping at something like 64 characters to prevent user error and such
But anything less than 30 is weird

Yep
I bitwarden generate 30 character passwords for everything

[mental oriole]

Tell me you have shitty password implementation without telling me you have shitty password implementation.

[tribal kraken]

Oh no, first driver problem for me with Nvidia 50 series. The new Roadcraft game has strange giant foliage on latest drivers

Suggested fix is to roll back to 576.28

[pure karma]

Like as the user? or a company?

[tribal kraken]

https://www.twitch.tv/laserkari/clip/ArtsyApatheticYakOptimizePrime-DlMmc88inotGotdw

[jagged snow]

As a company

[pure karma]

I haven’t ran into that yet but iv seen it loads from others lol

[tribal kraken]

Reminds me of the World of Warcraft Razorfen areas in southern Durotar

[pure karma]

Makes sense but then how do they know your password is correct?

[jagged snow]

Hash password, store hash

[ivory rampart]

by storing a hash of the password

[twin dew]

Point is you always store and compare the one-way hashed passwords.

[ivory rampart]

the password should never even arive at their server.
should always be hashed localy

[jagged snow]

Yep
Most secure way to do it

[twin dew]

And that hashing makes any plain text password the exact same length, and takes care of any special characters etc.

[jagged snow]

Yep

[twin dew]

Cannot be hashed locally if using salt etc.

[ivory rampart]

been some time since i had to learn about that stuff

[jagged snow]

Salting is adding a second input to your hash function, essentially

With passwords it means that even identical passwords will have a unique hash

[twin dew]

So rainbow tables are much less useful.

[ivory rampart]

i just wasnt sure where the salt comes from

[jagged snow]

Randomly seeded

[twin dew]

Server generates random bitstring per user.

[jagged snow]

And you can safely store it in plaintext with the hash

[twin dew]

And stores it with username and salted and hashed password.

[ivory rampart]

that doesnt mean the password cant be hashed once localy and then a second time with the salt

[jagged snow]

Because salt by itself does nothing
salt + pw = correct hash

There are reasons to avoid re-hashing values

[ivory rampart]

depends on function used,no?

or is it just plain bad

i dont rember

[jagged snow]

You just need to use two different functions for the most part

[twin dew]

Also, if the hashing was done locally, if someone got hold of the hash, they could just send that direct.

[jagged snow]

Then it's fine

[ivory rampart]

would still help the users that reuse passwords.
unless everyone is using the same hash functions

[pure karma]

and whats a hash exactly? just a encryption value?

[ivory rampart]

a one way function.

put a value in, and you should not be able to compute the input if you only have the output

[twin dew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_hash_function

And where the output is basically almost randomly changing even from little changes in the input.

Not all hash functions are suitable for cryptography.

Hash functions designed for error checking are completely different ballgame.

[pure karma]

so yea just an advanced incryption

[jagged snow]

Important to note that it's a somewhat unique value, and that very similar inputs will have dissimilar outputs

That's not what encryption means

[twin dew]

Encryption is reversible.
Hashing is not.

[jagged snow]

Encryption is by definition reversible

A hash is somewhat like a unique fingerprint

[pure karma]

yea no but its the same idea

except instead for a hash you throw the legend for what gives what in a river and forget about it

[jagged snow]

Not particularly, other than they're both methods of data obfuscation

[jagged snow]

But they have entirely different purposes and at a mathematical level work fundamentally different

[pure karma]

is it worth it to encrypt passwords when storing them at all or...

and i mean this on the user end of things

[ivory rampart]

use a password manager

so yes

[pure karma]

no

[ivory rampart]

why not, its very convenient

there are a few differeny ones, some work well with mobile and desktop

[twin dew]

And how else would you realistically encrypt your passwords at rest as user?

That is the entire point of password managers.

[ivory rampart]

not using a password manager is just living on hard mode

[pure karma]

but then im just giving all my passwords in one place

[ivory rampart]

its encrypted and secured

[twin dew]

Only at rest, when you aren't logging or logged in.

[pure karma]

somewhere and in a way i cant control ⬅️

[ivory rampart]

false

if you want full controll use keepass

[twin dew]

But basically the options for somewhat secure password storage are handwritten paper, and password managers.

Where first is in danger of being physically stolen only.

[ivory rampart]

but keepass is a bit inconvenient because you have to do syncing between devices on your own.
all the program does is open/close the database file (and add, edidt delete)

[pure karma]

paper sucks cause you cant copy paste and typing complicated passwords is a pain

[ivory rampart]

and paper doesnt realy generate passwords for u

[jagged snow]

Any proper password manager encrypts client side and all they have is the encrypted info with no way to view it

[twin dew]

And not all of them are cloud-based either.

[ivory rampart]

cloud based is for convenience

[jagged snow]

Yep

[twin dew]

Yup.

[pure karma]

in that case its not encrypted then?

[jagged snow]

What on earth makes you say that?

[ivory rampart]

i dont think you get the point

[pure karma]

your own words

[ivory rampart]

reversible if you have the key to revese it.
and you as the user would be the only one with that

[pure karma]

which they created presumably

[ivory rampart]

no

you create it, its your password (or at least thats part ofit)

[jagged snow]

Magic, do me a favor and go read up on how encryption works

[twin dew]

Point is that your own passwords are in file, that is encrypted with password that only you know of, and possibly also needs some other key too.

[jagged snow]

Mine uses password and a yubikey for 2fa

Or biometric on the phone

[twin dew]

And only opened locally, when you input the password.
So the password is ever only in your head, and on your local computer momentarely.

[ivory rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=what+is+encryption
pick your poison

[pure karma]

i just use the clasic passwords in a notepad documment and i dont care because i value the convinience over anything else

[twin dew]

And those additional factors are often possible, so you need both the password (what you know), biometrics (what you are), keyfiles or keysticks etc. (what you have).

[ivory rampart]

thats very bad

[twin dew]

And the point compared to local password manager is that it is still just one file, that can be stolen at any point

[ivory rampart]

a password manager is literally more convenient than that.

[twin dew]

While with password manager, the contents can only be stolen when you have it unlocked for use.

[pure karma]

only thing i plan on changing is having it be on a usb stick instead so its only accessable when powered

[jagged snow]

And even then it's memory resident and not in the filesystem

So harder to steal

[ivory rampart]

notpad has zero benefit over a password manager.

all i have to do is search for an account/website and double click on the password

notpad is literally just more work

[twin dew]

And also allows easy generation of random passwords.

[pure karma]

easy deletion of the money in my pocket

[ivory rampart]

its free

you pay zero

[pure karma]

nothing is free

everything costs something

[twin dew]

Lot of open source projects are free?

[ivory rampart]

keepass is open source, its free

[jagged snow]

Bitwarden is freemium

[twin dew]

Actually free.

[ivory rampart]

keepass has no adds, no tracking, no internet connection (at least by default)
its 100% free.
its not even hard to use.
so even the "but you pay with your time" argument is invalid

and there are other free options aswell

[pure karma]

its the same thing as "get a month free of ___" isent actually free... costs your credit card info

except in this case its your passwords

[twin dew]

Well, it does ask if you want itself to do update checks or not 😜

[ivory rampart]

its offline man

no account, no adds, no nothing

[twin dew]

And if you don't, it never uses Internet.

Unless you install plugins or like.

[ivory rampart]

and even that you dont need to.
could also write a script that syncs the file with your google drive or some shit

so the keepass itself never touches the internet

[twin dew]

Or just have the file location on the google drive clients folders for it to handle that.

[ivory rampart]

i never had the client, only used web version.
no idea how that works.

[jagged snow]

Magic does not understand foss?

[ivory rampart]

no, i just think he is upset because i/we called his security choices bad

[pure karma]

i know what "open source" software is

[twin dew]

Mine is set to have 5 last database saves in Dropboxes folder for backups and safety.
But then password + keyfile to unlock, and that keyfile has never been cloud synced anywhere.
I do have printed version of it in 2h fire resistant case, should do another and get it to some family member for safe keeping.

[pure karma]

i just dont care about it because i dont intend on modifying the software

[ivory rampart]

almost no one modifies open source software, that its not the point

99% of users use it as is

[pure karma]

idc cause i know its bad

its not meant to be good its meant to be good enough

and it has been

[ivory rampart]

its realy not good enough by any measure.
its a security incident waiting to happen.
its like refusing seat belts because you have never been in a car accident

[jagged snow]

Its not a problem until you have a problem

And then it's a problem

And there's no reason to risk it

[pure karma]

i could say the same about windows defender

its enough but it fails once and youv got full reinstall level damage

[jagged snow]

Yeah but windows defender is good 💀

[twin dew]

So?
But point is to not lose your passwords, or have someone else get them at the same time?

[ivory rampart]

what you do is pretty much disabeling windows defender because "never had a virus, bruh"

[twin dew]

Or lose them to USB stick failure etc.

[pure karma]

well if thats such a concern you make like 10 copy's of the usb stick and a few paper backups and even better a version engraved into metal or something and throw the extras in a safe somewhere

[ivory rampart]

or... just get a password manager?

[twin dew]

And every time you make a change, you need to update all those other backups?

Point is that proper password manager is more secure, and less painful, to use.

[ivory rampart]

i had a txt file for passwords for my first 3 years witha computer

such a passive pain in comparison

[pure karma]

more secure = better at keeping me out. than others

[ivory rampart]

at this point you have to be rage baiting

[twin dew]

I double-click the icon in taskbar and input the master password?
Then find the right entry, double-click on username, paste, double-click on password, paste.
Then click lock icon in the UI once I'm in where-ever.

And you could make it autotype too if you wanted to do more finagling per entry.

Selecting entry based on URL etc.

[pure karma]

even if i were to use a password manager id still need to keep a backup myself anyway since il probably end up locked out of my own acount/passwords

[twin dew]

What account?

[ivory rampart]

if thats a concern, use one where you self manage the file

[twin dew]

And even then, you need the encrypted password DB file, and the master password.
And possibly the login and password to whatever cloud service the encrypted backup file is at, if you decide to use cloud for that.

So one login and two password at max.

[dire igloo]

yeah, obviously it's much safer to reuse the same five short simplistic passwords across multiple accounts and store them in a plain text file on your PC just for good measure

[pure karma]

my point is no matter what in the end you end up needing to store something on your end that leads to your data/passwords... be it the passwords themselfs or the stuff required to recover the info/passwords in the password manager

[twin dew]

Much less data to do it.
And even if those are just file on the same computer, still same security or more with much more usability.

And as those aren't changing often, you can more easily do offline USB stick or paper backups etc.

[dire igloo]

okay, nvm, you actually introduced an even stupider way of handling passwords yourself

[ivory rampart]

you store the database file and you have a masterpassword that you have in your mind

[dire igloo]

if you can not remember a SINGLE password, then all hope is lost for your IT literacy

[twin dew]

Or just write it down somewhere as paper that you stash.

[dire igloo]

you need ONE password to decrypt the password manager and that's it, there you got all your passwords neatly ordered and easily accessible

[ivory rampart]

blessings uppon the lucky guy to get into all your accounts.
he will come along eventually

[pure karma]

i only know my oculus one because i nerver changed it after putting a trash one in to get past account creation without it being a pain

outside of that nope i dont remember any of them

[dire igloo]

ain't Oculus connected to Facebook?

[ivory rampart]

if you cant remember one single password, you are beyond cooked

[dire igloo]

shouldn't be too hard to get an insta profile from that

[pure karma]

you can but no i have it diffrent

[twin dew]

Point is that you have ONE password you use constantly, and all the others are just randomized crap.

[pure karma]

my facebook is on my google account if i recall

[twin dew]

Where that ONE password is the master password to unlock the password manager DB.

[pure karma]

because i just login with google for throwaway account i dont care about

[dire igloo]

you should really look into password phrases

the number one factor for password strength is length, not complexity

complexity helps, but you should always value length over complexity

[ivory rampart]

anything in there below 100 years is completely worthless

[pure karma]

then im waaay fine

id be at whatever the peak for 20 is

[ivory rampart]

no you are not, because you store your password in plain text

you could have 40 letter passwords and it would still be bad

[pure karma]

im not going to spend months making my own encryption system just for a few passwords

[ivory rampart]

P A S S W O R D M A N A G E R

[twin dew]

That was the point in selecting one of the ready solutions?

[dire igloo]

the password is only as secure as its obtainability
if the only way to get your password is through brute force, then yes, you're fine
but if someone could just yoink your USB stick, take a photo of a post-it or similar, then even the most secure password in the world is useless

[pure karma]

and im not going to use a password manager because i dont trust them or my ability to not end up locked out of my own password manager

[dire igloo]

holy fuck you're stupid

[ivory rampart]

you dont trust yourself to have one fucking password on a piece of paper in your drawer

truly tragic

[dire igloo]

what if your text file gets corrupted cuz you pulled out the usb stick without dismounting it first?

tadaaaaa, gone

[dire igloo]

I think it's more along the lines of "what if there's a software update and they take my vault hostage demanding a ransom?"

[jagged snow]

Welcome to magic's world

[dire igloo]

which is utterly stupid because THEY ARE OPEN SOURCE

[ivory rampart]

(never has to update in the first place)

[jagged snow]

(And you can back up your vault)

[dire igloo]

you can literally just look up the entire code of that thing and never install an update or anything

[ivory rampart]

no he doesnt want that, but at least thats understandable

[dire igloo]

which tbf is pointless if it's encrypted in a way that only the software can access

unless you can roll back to a non-ransom version

[twin dew]

Include the good versions installer with the file.

Offline installer.

[dire igloo]

ding ding ding

install a portable known-good version onto a usb stick, create a vault file on there with it, done

nobody can access those passwords unless they have the key to the vault

which knowing MagicZ might just end up in a plain text file on that usb stick

[ivory rampart]

u guys know him?

[twin dew]

And in my case, I have the software installed on three computers and one phone.
Each with some version of the DB (no automatic sync) and the keyfile.
And five latest versions my main computer has saved are in Dropbox.

Only from this channel.

[dire igloo]

not personally, but there have been plenty interactions that make this level of IT literacy unsurprising

[ivory rampart]

one thing to not know, another to refuse to learn

[twin dew]

MagicZ learning?
Never happened.

[pure karma]

il learn once the defenition of learning in this chat stops being using software i dont care to trust anymore

[ivory rampart]

thats not even a sentence

[charred relic]

Oh yeah well... Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

[pure karma]

too bad then. have you considered learning how to read it in that case?

[charred relic]

How ya like that sentence 😄

[pure karma]

see how stupid that sounds

[ivory rampart]

yes, reading that does infact sound stupid

[charred relic]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo is a great saying...

[pure karma]

thats how im reading this entire conversation

[twin dew]

You typoed stuff, forgot lot of punctuation etc.

So it is just random string of words and not-words if you look at it strictly.

[charred relic]

It's comically easy to gaslight people into thinking you said a word but you really didn't...

[twin dew]

But so what that line of mine.

[glossy glacier]

Speaking if password managers, your thoughts on vaultwarden?

[ivory rampart]

you dont trust it because you dont understand it

and you dont understand it, because you wont learn

[charred relic]

Learn.... -spit-

Had just bout nuff of yer... lernin

[pure karma]

i dont have the will to learn anything useless unless everything i need to do so is practically thrown at me levels of easy to find

[ivory rampart]

we did do that, but clearly even hat isnt easy enough for you

[charred relic]

oh man i've done "are you getting paid for this" levels of research before...

[twin dew]

And how do you then determine what is useful and what is useless?

[charred relic]

At times some of my friends were concerned...

[pure karma]

like i did research when i installed arch because it wasent hidden behind 40 pages of nothing burgers and i actually wanted to and plus its usefull in the sense that its somewhat in the direction of programing which is always handy

[ivory rampart]

for his own sake i hope he is like 12.
because then he has a chance to grow out of it

[charred relic]

I've also managed over time to learn a lot of stuff that turned out to be not so useful. Some of which is just lost.

The saying if you don't use it you lose it isn't just bullshit ya know

I used to be able to do SOME calculus, I'd have trouble with far easier now.

[dire igloo]

There ya go, an entire password manager for you to dissect.
You can look at every single line of code, every itty-bitty piece of behavior.
The only reason not to trust this is because of illiteracy
https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc

[pure karma]

considering i went from not knowing any kind of monitoring to building 2 pc's and get to this point in a little less than 3 years without really comiting to learning much is plenty fine for me

[charred relic]

My life took a different path at the time...

[ivory rampart]

building pcs isnt anything special.
nice if you did it, but its nothing to be praised for

[dire igloo]

the worst part about your learning is that you abide by trial and error but don't notice if an attempt failed

[sterile plinth]

I see, still wondering about the optiplexes though

[charred relic]

Oh this is about PC stuff....

[dire igloo]

the most difficult part about PC building is overcoming the fear of doing it

[ivory rampart]

exacly

[charred relic]

For me done so long it's hard to judge where somebody should be in a year lol

It did used to be a lot harder... still wasn't hard though

[dire igloo]

idk about optiplexes, but i wanna use the opportunity to shill Intel Arc

[ivory rampart]

you can go from not knowing how to build a pc to knowing it within a few hours

[charred relic]

Well now with the internet... sure it definitely changes that curve a lot.

We were reading magazines.... and talking to older nerds

[ivory rampart]

i did my first build 10 years ago, had no real issues with it

[charred relic]

When I did it you could go from scratch but it was much harder. Most peoplee would get kits. Like I got a kit for a 286

Didn't have the same market obvioiusly... with cases and fans and all the other stuff.

[dire igloo]

pros and cons of internet
pro: you have access to the entirety of human knowledge
con: you have access to the entirety of human bullshit

[charred relic]

The internet certainly turned out... different than we'd imagined

[dire igloo]

enshittified, network-effected, capitalized

[pure karma]

Well yea because im always given then final answer with no explanation on how to achieve it or an explanation i dont understand to work with

[dire igloo]

yeah, uhhh, it's that last part
tech advice can only be dumbed down so much before it gets technical

[charred relic]

Here's the thing though man. Many many times I'll be researching something and come across terms or methods I'm not familiar with.

I stop, I then research those things, I can now continue with the original thing 🙂

[pure karma]

yea great. If i understood the code but im not going to learn what is probably a programming language i have nerver used just to install a piece of software i didn’t even want

[dire igloo]

"why do I have to restart my PC?" explanation can't get any simpler than "if Windows runs for too long, it accumulates data junk which will eventually cause issues"
if you want someone to explain that, it gets into the very technical aspects of how operating systems are built and how they work

[pure karma]

well yea but im mostly referencing baldur since atleast most of you try now outside of abbreviations

[dire igloo]

I'd say "don't want" is the wrong term. you actually do want a password manager in the sense that it's the answer to your needs
however, you are too illiterate to understand it and too scared to trust it

[pure karma]

the amount of time a reply from baldur has consisted of 90% or more stuff i dont understand or know how to even attempt to understand is more than i can count

[dire igloo]

Baldur is doing a phenomenal job at explaining the very very technical questions and I've noticed him to be a great educator.
however, as explained above, there is only so much dumbing down one can do before it gets complicated again
at some point, you have to accept that "that's just how it is" is going to be the end of your learning path for then

[twin dew]

Or go to the actual sources, which often get really complicated.

[dire igloo]

that's more on you than on Baldur, ngl

you can absolutely blame a teacher for failing to teach, but at some point you have to blame the student for failing to learn

[twin dew]

And then the point is to ask for clarifications.

[dire igloo]

that too

[charred relic]

Like I was saying, soimetimes you have to stop and research the thing 🙂

[dire igloo]

and if you don't understand the entire message, ask for simplification

[charred relic]

You'll find you often have to move back to find the path forward...

[dire igloo]

and if you're facing "that's just how things work", you can either try to understand the more technical explanation or accept you won't know

[charred relic]

That applies to life in general too.

[ivory rampart]

You must think everyone is out to get you

[dire igloo]

a lot of times in maths, you have to make an assumption first so that you can later prove it correct once you gained more understanding

[charred relic]

Somebody is definitely out to get me.

[ivory rampart]

And everyone is out to get magicz.
The feds are after him

[charred relic]

But... they exist in my own mind.

[dire igloo]

I wish somebody was out to get me so I could ask them why

[dire igloo]

I imagine MagicZ to be like a slapstick cartoon character that sets up a chain of accidents which later seem like there's someone else around

[pure karma]

When i do it turns into this exact conversation without fail of im just a incompetent idiot that isent willing to learn anything

[twin dew]

Usually you don't ask for clarifications?

[charred relic]

Incompetent idiot is my favorite act 🙂

[ivory rampart]

And by no chance could thst mean, that you behave just like that?

[pure karma]

i try not to cause your clarifications tend to somehow be harder to understand

[jagged snow]

To further that, you come across like an arrogant jerk

[charred relic]

people expect little and underestimate you, works out well

[dire igloo]

well, if you fail to understand the simple explanation but simultaneously refuse to accept its truth, then yeah, you are an incompetent idiot

and you are unwilling to learn

[charred relic]

throwing on a thick version of my accent helps too heh

[jagged snow]

And repeat the same flawed statements with no basis or willingness to reconsider your stance

[charred relic]

for some reason a lot of people think rednecks are all just idiots, it's great really

[ivory rampart]

Or unable to learn.
But i dont believe that.
I think you just dont want to

[jagged snow]

And it makes for very unproductive conversation

[jagged snow]

I get that a lot

[charred relic]

Even the "dumb" ones aren't as dumb as people think, or at least not in the ways they think.

They might have trouble with some math... but they know a TON of shit you don't I can assure you.

[dire igloo]

I use it when people can't seem to realize their mistake.
I play dumb and ask them to point out my mistakes - which usually ends up in them realizing their mistake (rare) or them dismissing information I provide (common)

[pure karma]

what are you on about

[dire igloo]

as I have just explained: #off-topic-tech message

[charred relic]

One of the best mechanics I met was reading at probably a 7th or 8th grade level. But he could fix anything with an engine.