off-topic-tech

[sharp oasis]

And has all the nessasary radio parts

[languid gulch]

is it a full fat SD reader?

or the tiny sim card

[sharp oasis]

Full SIM reader

[languid gulch]

nice

[sharp oasis]

I think it can take nano sim

I'd have to look it doesn't look like the fat sim

[languid gulch]

those are popular laptops for international travel

[sharp oasis]

I mean I expect no less out of a $6600 Cad dell precision

[languid gulch]

fucking hell yea 🤣

i'm making sure my next phone has double sim card in it

[sharp oasis]

It's nano sim for sure

[languid gulch]

clean it out before you use it tho 😛

just to be sure you're not jamming cat hair in it

[sharp oasis]

Ofc

I mean the laptop is already very new.

And I did clean the heatsink when I put PTM on it

[languid gulch]

did it come with the little tray thingy you put the card in, or is it the clicky type of slot

[sharp oasis]

It's a tray

[languid gulch]

oh nice

so it's sealed anyway

[sharp oasis]

Yeah

[languid gulch]

i thought that even at that price they'd cheap out a bit

[sharp oasis]

The only point I think they cheaped out and really I don't think they could have engineered it much better was cooling

The laptop runs really hot under full load

[languid gulch]

eh, most do

the rule is literally "just don't burn the customers"

[sharp oasis]

But the problem is. If they wanted to cool it better. So it doesn't thermal throttle at peak power. They would have to sacrifice the upgradability

There would have to be some sacrifice

Either battery size, NVMe expansion bays, it general upgradability

Like again look at how much I can actually user service and upgrade

The GPU module is fully upgradable and can be swapped

[languid gulch]

ah, the new type of ram too

[sharp oasis]

Camm yep

Camm is stupid expensive tho.

[languid gulch]

i call it Pop Tart ram

[abstract juniper]

I need a new GPU. My rtx2080 doesn't have the vram for lumen 😥

[sharp oasis]

If I want 64GB of 5600 mt/s it's $535cad

[languid gulch]

OOF

is that a full RJ45 too?

[sharp oasis]

128gb at the same speed it's $973cad

[sharp oasis]

Iirc yeah.

[languid gulch]

wait, 3x 2280?

[sharp oasis]

4x

[languid gulch]

oh shit yea 4th one

i mean, for that price they should be sending you an IT butler

[sharp oasis]

(dell support assist that I can't get off the os as it's baked into my laptops firmware to install)

[languid gulch]

oh yea that goopware

[sharp oasis]

It's annoying

[languid gulch]

i'm still using my dell's key from windows 7 days 🤣

[sharp oasis]

There's a few annoying things about this thing

No direct manual control of the fans

Without LITTRALLY dumping voltage in them myself

[languid gulch]

ARC B580 has more vram & ain't too shabby for the price

oh yea dell's are garbage for customizing anything

[verbal raft]

whats your budget ?

[sharp oasis]

Another thing.

157w cpu.

130w GPU

240w power adapter.

See the issue?

[languid gulch]

the only things Dell i'm using are their monitors

[verbal raft]

it paired with anything short of a 5600 though
not great (especially in this one)

[sharp oasis]

One is forced to throttle at full load no matter what

And that's before rest of system draw

[languid gulch]

true, was mainly thinking of the cheapest gpu with more vram than the 2080

[sharp oasis]

So in all essence I actually get like 80-90w out of the cpu wile the GPU pulls 120w and rest of the wattage goes to system

[verbal raft]

gotcha

[abstract juniper]

Complicated. Lol I probably shouldn't be buying a card right now but thinking about in a couple of months. I make good money but the company I work for is going kerblewy. Im also a little concerned that my current mobo only supports pcie 3.0 not sure if that kills the whole thing.

[languid gulch]

couple more months and GPUs will probably all be more expensive

[abstract juniper]

Yeah I know 😖

They're already more expensive

[verbal raft]

PCIE 3 should be OK
(as long as it has resizeable BAR)

[languid gulch]

the PCIe thing isn't overly important, yea

[sharp oasis]

And Dell's power management is particularly awful

It's actually so frustrating

[abstract juniper]

I forget what bar even is...

I have an Asus hero maximus xi

[sharp oasis]

I tell my laptop cpu to only pull 118.750w at peak.

It pulls 135w Instaid and throttles.

[verbal raft]

i hope that it doesnt get worse in the EU 🙏
but for the US
yeah, US is cooked

[sharp oasis]

And I'm like you dumb mother fucker.

Slow down. Just a bit

[abstract juniper]

Cooked for endless reasons

If my company liquidates maybe I can buy a 4080s from them lol weeeee. We do a lot of image processing so have fuckin stacks of the things.

[sharp oasis]

I need to find a way to unfuck Dell's firmware power management

And force my software profiles

[abstract juniper]

I already have e 1000W PS so I should be good there

[verbal raft]

i'd suggest waiting for the 9060 XT
those should have 16GB of VRAM
and better perf than your 2080
i expect it to cost 350$ MSRP

in the mid range really the 9070 non XT/XT is my recomendation

[abstract juniper]

Or hope I can snipe some shit from my work. The irony being that if that's happening I have surely lost my job lol

[sharp oasis]

I don't understand why dell makes it so difficult to actually try to tune the laptop

Like it behaves so abnormally

[verbal raft]

anything higher than is all NVIDIA 40/5080 and 40/5090

[sharp oasis]

It will respect my power plan for like a few seconds

And then say oh. I have more temp room to go

And overboost itself beyond what my power plan says

[verbal raft]

RIP

[sharp oasis]

And instantly throttle

I know the cooler can handle 118-120w from the cpu

Yet the cpu sees there's a few degrees headroom

And instantly says Imma overboost and say fuck the power plan you set every time

[abstract juniper]

Will also have to figure out some clever way to ventilate my closet. My computer is in there for noise isolation and the temp in there is borderline with the 2080.

[verbal raft]

though, i assume that pricing is fucked so probably not gonna be the best

[sharp oasis]

Dell. Please unfuck your firmware.

-Sincerely Someone who enjoys your precision series laptops.

[verbal raft]

like
why is the 9070 682$ ??

it should be 550 lol

and why is the 5070 TI cheaper than the 9070 XT ??

[languid gulch]

after 6 years, i finally popped my original bulldozer off of its heat sink

dell had thermal epoxied it to their garbage tier aluminum block heat sink, and a heat gun, dental floss, alcohol couldn't loosen it up

so i just let time make it brittle

yanked it out stuck to the heat sink during my first cpu swap ever

miraculously didn't damage the socket

[pure karma]

i mean computer hardware physically is usually pretty darn strong

the problem is functionally

[languid gulch]

i had gotten a new cpu/heat sink, i had been mainly worried about if the new cpu was DOA

plus with it being my first time doing any type of pc hardware work i was paranoid beyond belief 🤣

so today i just put the heat sink in a vise & tried out my new toothless channel locks on it

[pure karma]

im near doing my first cpu swap myself

i dont expect any issues other than obviously problems with reusing that aio because 99% chance it dosent have a backplate

[languid gulch]

if you bought the AIO, it should have its own backplate in case the mobo doesn't have it

[sharp oasis]

Who needs those anyway

[charred relic]

Swapped that out awhile back...

[sharp oasis]

All they did was hold me back

[languid gulch]

did you see what's special about the cpu i posted?

[pure karma]

i want to reuse my alienware aio because its still in perfect condition and still plenty excesive for the build just i probably wont be able to so il probably order a new one anyway

[languid gulch]

check the measurements on it, iirc Dell occasionally uses the Intel bracket on AMD boards

[pure karma]

because i know for the longest time and probably still do... that they use a custom mount thats part of the motherboard thats significantly more durable and solid giving better contact but that means its not separatable

[languid gulch]

yea, some of the AM5 boards are just plain wonky when it comes to the backplate

[pure karma]

the main downside to gettign a new one is its going to be trash

[languid gulch]

idk, the cheapo 360 AIO from Thermalright tested shockingly well

[pure karma]

i probably need a thin 240

[languid gulch]

what's the cpu?

[pure karma]

i intend on reusing my 10700F aswell so 65W idleing 90% of the time

[languid gulch]

ah

any room for a 280?

[pure karma]

im mostly tempted to go 240 just for the extra space for tubing and less agresive angle

[languid gulch]

ah

[pure karma]

not cause its necesary

[languid gulch]

see i'd be tempted to do a 280 even if it's kinda blocked off just so i could have a bit of mild overkill without it sucking up as much room as a 360

[pure karma]

and plus you can get one for like 60 bucks which is not gonna tank the bank honestly

[languid gulch]

no room for an air cooler?

[pure karma]

probably could jam it in there but its nerver coming apart ever again without taking a angle grinder to the case

[languid gulch]

🤣

[pure karma]

im going as small as possible

[languid gulch]

i was surprised at how squat the Peerless Assassin 120 SE is

152mm iirc

but yea, trying to access the gpu release thingy will draw blood 🤣

[pure karma]

i also want to shove a B580 in there so i can try it but also finally retire the 1660 super

[languid gulch]

hey i just retired my parents' 1660s

mom got a 6600XT, dad got a 6800XT

[pure karma]

i mostly want to repurpose this thing for a 24/7 / game streaming / whatever needs a fuckton of unmonitored runtime

so reliability first

[languid gulch]

ah nice

what case are you using?

[pure karma]

the johnsbo D32 pro

or as i have renamed it little chonk

[languid gulch]

oh wow 🤣

240 up top then i assume

[pure karma]

yea

[languid gulch]

this might sound dumb

[pure karma]

but it has 140 rails so i can shimmy it over worst case scenario

[languid gulch]

but, for reliability, do an air cooler, with good quality front, rear, & front-top air intake, single top-rear exhaust. that way if a fan fails, you've got 2 others right there to keep it going without much issue

[pure karma]

thats part of the reason i wanted to reuse that alienware rad actually

i have tested it an it can do up to 200W on pure passive pump only

[languid gulch]

oh wow nice

[pure karma]

at about 95C

[languid gulch]

kk 🤣 nvm then

planning on doing intake on the front & rear panels then?

[pure karma]

it has no front intake

the front is the tightest squeeze for a PSU i have ever seen

[languid gulch]

oh wow ok i totally misseed that 🤣

[pure karma]

it has no rear fan either

[languid gulch]

man, tiny even for SFF

[pure karma]

its a grill has no mounts

[languid gulch]

oh come on, superglue a tiny 92mm screamer there

the amazon pics show a 120mm on the rear

OH i bet they're using the rubber fan mount nipple things instead of screws

yea it does say 120mm capable

[pure karma]

i mean there nothing stopping you just it wouldn’t be secured

[languid gulch]

lol the promo picks show it with my 4090 Strix

can it really do that?

[pure karma]

probably

i could probably squish in my 4070ti

it seems long enough

[languid gulch]

oh wow yea 4 slot

usually SFF is 3 slot at most

[pure karma]

yea this thing is goated

[languid gulch]

and from jonsbo

[pure karma]

i do wish it had more cable management room tho

it has literally none no mounts no rails no spacing

[languid gulch]

i do kinda like the power plug being at the top

power cord extensions have always kinda worried me for some reason

[pure karma]

its fun until you realise oh shit you have to take the top pannel off to get to the psu switch

[languid gulch]

yea true

they should put a lil access panel for that

[pure karma]

i dont know how much that extension can handle but ehh its probably fine

[languid gulch]

nothing a dremel can't fix 😛

ok and that spot for the PSU would actually justify using one with a ridiculous LCD panel on it

ok & $75 is actually amazing for that

the only thing it's really missing is carrying handle mounts

[pure karma]

the clearence is atrocious tho if you dont want to take the psu sheild off and have it look really ugly

[languid gulch]

oh 100%

[pure karma]

it has a version for that

[languid gulch]

oh ffs

[pure karma]

but its like waaay upcharged

[languid gulch]

of course it is

[pure karma]

justifiebly so i mean its literally so portable

[languid gulch]

yea if i wasn't just given this amazing pc i'd have probably hunted down something similar

case is kinda trash tho 🤣

rest is great

oh the case handle one is $105, that's still not bad

[pure karma]

yea for me i wasent gonna spend the upcharge for handles when its so easy to just manhandle but yea

[languid gulch]

sounds mildly dumb but i'd change the full glass side panel to have the bottom third be mesh for gpu exhaust

intake on the bottom, blast hot exhaust out of both sides

[pure karma]

those look sooo ugly thoooo

[languid gulch]

i know

[pure karma]

i think maybe as an upgrade option

[languid gulch]

maybe really loose mesh

so you can still see the gpu

[languid gulch]

GN's poisoned my mind with performance over pretty 🤣

[pure karma]

fair enough

[languid gulch]

maybe acrylic full panel, with holes drilled in the bottom half 🤣

or just like 3mm spacer washers on it

float the whole panel

[pure karma]

or you know, just be normal and use better fans at the bottom

i might actually finally have a purpose for those NZXT stock fans i have

there dead sillent and move enough air just they have a LOT of space between the blades but its so worth the noise reduction

[languid gulch]

just spend $300 on noctuas, problem solved

[pure karma]

i did try to make a laptop cooler with them but when you put a fan with toothpick blades pointed at a copper wall the air just starts looping and intaking and exhausting at the same time and achieving nothing at all

[languid gulch]

true

[pure karma]

not exactly very effective

[languid gulch]

with my dad's rebuild i threw 2 noctuas on the Peerless Assassin, then a matching 3rd one as exhaust right behind it. slight overkill for a 5600X

didn't want to break up the set

[charred relic]

My one fan that was a single that goes in the back is a Noctua...

They make some damn good fans in my experience

If I ever need to replace a radiator fan I'll probably just swap them all out with Noctuas

[languid gulch]

oh yea the neglect i put my noctuas thru & they really don't give a shit

$15 a piece, but man not having to care about them is great

[charred relic]

The one I'm using in this build is several years old at this point and was in great shape, the other less expensive fans I had were not doing as well.

This is the fan I had on my heatsink on the last build

[languid gulch]

lol exactly the same experience i've had

first fan to start yelling at me was a $5 thermalright one

[charred relic]

I used to think it was at least largely gimmick/marketing until I tried them

Also did end up going ultrawide. 34" 3440x1440, 120Hz

1000R

For me it seemed like the 1500 and 1800 was way too mild a curve for what i want

[languid gulch]

nice!

yea 1800R is barely there for me

[charred relic]

I'm waiting on the ones that just go 180 degrees, wrap halfway around yer head lol

i guess at that point dual screen is just adding one behind you too o.O

[charred relic]

lol

Like that but only 2 panels. Although I guess either way at some point pushing that kinda pixel count isn't going to be feasible... 13760x1440!

[soft bloom]

I'm simple
I see Welch labs making video
I repost it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrO20Jb-hy0

[charred relic]

Do robots dream of electric sheep?

😉

[dire igloo]

How far away are you sitting?
Cuz if it's closer than 1m, it's still not quite FOV radius

[dire igloo]

btw, don't fall for the same fallacy as so many other tech buyers:
When you buy only one high-ish quality thing, people tend to associate that brand and model with high quality.
However, they just lack a comparison and could've had an equally good if not better experience with a different product that they are now excluding due to their single datapoint

Or in other words:
"I've only had shit fans in the past, bought one Noctua fan, it's amazing, won't buy anything else in the future"

[dire igloo]

Same goes in the other direction btw:
A single bad experience can disqualify an entire brand/lineup when it's just an unlucky pick (another example is Letterdief's tilted cooler).
In other words: "always had Noctua, bought Thermalright once and it broke, never buying Thermalright again"

[charred relic]

Dude I've been installingf fans since the 80'sd

so... I've used quite a fucking few MYSELF

That CPU photo is literally a CPU I used...

[dire igloo]

Also, important info:
Thermalright's S-FDB v1 bearings are quite shit. If you want a fan to last, get one with their S-FDB v2 bearing

[charred relic]

So I have quite a bit to compare to Noctua

[dire igloo]

Trust me, I've had people use that exact argument to justify the most bullshit takes

[charred relic]

Ok bro I accumulted zero knowledge over the past bunch of decades

🙂

[dire igloo]

40 years of user experience mean nothing to a maker

[charred relic]

I'm also incapable of research.

Stop treating me like im an imbecile, TIA.

[dire igloo]

"I've driven Taxis for 40 years, I know how a car engine works"

[charred relic]

I haven';t judtr driven the god damned car

I've worked on it... so yes i know HOW THE ENGINE WORKS

Again, stop acting like I'm a fuckimg imbecile lol

ffs...

[dire igloo]

Using experience as an argument almost never holds on its own:
"If a veteran scientist tells you something is possible, they're most likely right. If a veteran scientist tells you something is impossible, they're most likely wrong."

[charred relic]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-gif-7807401677966294286

[dire igloo]

I've learned to qualify people's PC skills and part knowledge based on experience

[charred relic]

We're done here, 🙂

[dire igloo]

I'm not. I'm telling you that your logic is flawed.

It's not a personal attack on you

[charred relic]

I'm telling you to fuck off, and leav it alone.

ENOUGH

[dire igloo]

If you're a veteran, you've also encountered many people who have been making the same mistakes for decades

I'm talking about those

[charred relic]

Ya know I'll solve this.

[dire igloo]

Plus, it's not apparent which type of veteran you are just from what you said

[dire igloo]

These idiots will become just as defensive as you

So excuse me for not accepting time as an argument

It's how you use that time that makes you knowledgeable. Not the time alone

[languid gulch]

i mean, i've now bought 6 thermalright fans since then 🤣

[dire igloo]

Examples for this include:
"Nvidia GPUs aren't VRAM limited, AMD GPUs are. Nvidia has better compression so they are fine with less VRAM"
"I've been building PCs longer than you exist, I'm not taking any advice from you"
"A good PC needs a strong motherboard" (paired a Ryzen 7600 with a $300 X670E board)

[languid gulch]

i mean, the new cheap boards are $300 now 🤣

[dire igloo]

Yeah, not saying this applies to you. Just a pattern I've noticed a lot in advising on the PCPP Discord

[languid gulch]

oh god i can't imagine that toxicity

[dire igloo]

$130 b650m pro rs

[languid gulch]

was mostly kidding

[dire igloo]

$110 B650M-HDV

[dire igloo]

That second one was especially funny cuz dude posted his list in the server asking for feedback

[languid gulch]

i feel like some of that info used to be kinda accurate, but that was probably 20 years ago

[dire igloo]

"hey, I want feedback"
(Gets feedback)
"Noooooo, you didn't praise my genius"

[dire igloo]

That VRAM shit maybe - but that was before 12gb 4070 ti

[languid gulch]

yea i feel like that shit would be like putting civic tires on a ferrari

[dire igloo]

Like 6gb GTX 1060 vs 8gb RX 480

That level of difference

[twin dew]

Not really ever.
The differences like that last for one generation, if even that.

When one manufacturer deploys new better HW level compression algo.

[languid gulch]

and rn AMD's kinda winning because their stuff doesn't have much of a "will this catch on fire" threat

[dire igloo]

Also: it doesn't fucking matter.
I showed that guy a benchmark for the game he was playing - and the AMD card won

He's just an old timey Nvidia shill

[languid gulch]

oh yea, shills are gonna shill

[dire igloo]

Disguising it with made up facts

[languid gulch]

if i wasn't handed my system i would have stuck with radeon

[dire igloo]

My favorite:
"Every single gigabyte PSU is dogshit and a fire hazard because P-GM. But NZXT is a great brand with exceptional quality and customer support, their H1 fires were slipup that they handled masterfully"

Dude got banned from PCPP before the rental PCs

[languid gulch]

with the 9070/9070XT results in RT, i'm kinda wondering if it's the Ryzen 1st gen moment for them, where everyone kinda goes "hey, whatcha doing over there?" & the gen after that everyone goes "huh, not bad", & then the 3rd gen it's "oh shit, they just blew by the competition"

[dire igloo]

I bought a 7800xt and mere weeks later picked up broadcasting work.
In hindsight: saving 50€ for 5% more performance wasn't worth losing versatility

But it's LoL, so it's fine, the AMD encoder still handles it decently well

[dire igloo]

Also encoder

[languid gulch]

definitely sucks when so many companies ditch their own versatility & hitch onto another company

[dire igloo]

uh

wdym?

[languid gulch]

coding in a way that works significantly better (or exclusively) with Nvidia gpus

[dire igloo]

I meant versatility as in "it may be better for gaming but loses in many other aspects"
in my example: RDNA2 encoder being arguably worse than NVENC

From the perspective of the GPU

Nvidia got CUDA and NVENC which are still quite far ahead of AMD (except RDNA3 AMF)

So if you might encounter usecases that require those, you should sacrifice the raster fps and go with Nvidia

I've had someone tell me he's starting a CS degree and wanted a PC for coding and other uni stuff.
Gave him a 4070 just in case they'll design and train an AI model

anyways @charred relic I hope you can forgive me for dismissing your degree of experience

[languid gulch]

i'm just hoping that AMD is working on doing some more direct competition with Nvidia on the non-raster front

[dire igloo]

I wonder if ZLUDA is still stronger than ROCm

Why the fuck does my keyboard not have the strike through Z

[languid gulch]

ha

[dire igloo]

Eh, ZLUDA doesn't have it anyway
Thought it did

[visual tree]

@dire igloo Wait, I am not allowed to throw away old door knobs? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-fEe_-4H7ts

Also, finding an apartment building here with an attic is extremely rare

Wish I had an apartment with an attic though

[dire igloo]

Yes and no.
As the guy explained, Denkmalschutz is to protect historical artifacts.
It's something that some county office declares - so you can throw away old doorknobs unless someone tells you not to

[languid gulch]

yea, sounded like a historic property protection

[visual tree]

Oh, that makes sense

[dire igloo]

Also: it doesn't matter if these doorknobs were protected or not, he's not allowed to throw them away.
They're legally property of the landlord, so only the landlord is allowed to dispose of them

If you do it without your landlord's permission, that's essentially theft

[languid gulch]

i was also thinking if they were lead, it might be an environmental fine as well

[visual tree]

Although I don't like keeping an old staircase in the attic lol. Wish you could simply donate it to a museum

[languid gulch]

or restore for reuse

[dire igloo]

Exactly this.
It's usually declared for entire buildings - and once they are protected, the owner (in this case the landlord) has to maintain it and keep it in its historical state.

I'm actually not sure if what the landlord did here is legal, removing the protected items and storing them away

[dire igloo]

The museum has to accept it too - which they most likely won't

[dire igloo]

Which can be incredibly costly and sometimes, nature can intervene to make restoration impossible (like termites or mold destroying the integrity of the structure requiring a replacement)

[languid gulch]

you guys would laugh your asses off at what we in the US feel like declaring historic properties worthy of protecting

[visual tree]

My parents own a very old stone house on the island with poor wall insulation and since the island town declared it a cultural heritage, we are not allowed to modify the outside walls in any way

And because of that, many houses declared as a cultural heritage are falling apart because you can't touch anything

[dire igloo]

What some people do however is make a historically accurate replacement - like Laura Kampf did with here rotten timberframe
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLsyCFICnr819K6cWPGm1LUp9xDfhk-HP

[dire igloo]

and what you don't...

I love when people brag about US history and then I look at my hometown and there are pubs older than the USA

[languid gulch]

yea here when it's declared, you basically have to prove that you can maintain & keep the structure true to the original, and any changes have to go through the city council for approval

[dire igloo]

Plus, y'all don't really learn about your historical fuckups

[verbal raft]

the first is kinda true to a point TBH

[languid gulch]

right now there's a house in my state that was home to the person who designed our state flag that's in dispute as to whether or not it's going to be bulldozed

[dire igloo]

We learn a lot about the one time with Austrian mustache guy and a bit about the war stuff before him

[dire igloo]

That point being quite low tho
#off-topic-tech message

[languid gulch]

it's also fucking shocking to me how much is still around not just because of that, but also the last......800? years?

[dire igloo]

Probably same here

[dire igloo]

My hometown got severely bombed in the 2nd world war.
While many cities decided to rebuild from scratch, the city folks here wanted to rebuild how it was

[languid gulch]

it can be a problem to get a property declared historic, because then whoever owns or buys it needs to prove they can maintain it, so a lot of properties get destroyed because nobody wants to pay for the repairs

[verbal raft]

bu but DLSS UP > FSR AA 🤣

[dire igloo]

and THIS is how it looks today

[visual tree]

Restoring old houses here is so expensive and requires many permits. For the same price, you could build 2 new zero-energy houses

[dire igloo]

It's just beautiful, I love this city

[languid gulch]

the other night on Jeopardy i learned that we (the US) almost destroyed the Leaning Tower of Pisa because we thought it was being used as a spotting tower

[dire igloo]

Oh, btw, that bell tower has three cages hanging on it
Those are connected to the city's history - we had a strong religious revolution that was busted, its three leaders publicly executed, their bodies hung upon the tallest structure in the city as a cautionary tale for everyone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münster_rebellion

[visual tree]

Do you have a similar law like in Austria where if you want to restore old buildings in town, you literally demolish everything while keeping facade intact? Basically, it's like building a completely new apartment building while keeping the facade from an old one

[dire igloo]

Oh, not just publicly executed, but tortured and executed.
Like, having their skin ripped off with red hot iron tongs

[dire igloo]

Yup, entkernen.

[languid gulch]

wanna know the most batshit crazy building code

[dire igloo]

Apparently it's "facadism" in English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facadism

[languid gulch]

here, if you keep 1 wall intact, you don't have to get a permit to completely redo the rest of the house so long as it passes construction codes

[dire igloo]

It's a common joke, but it's actually REALLY sane:
We have a DIN (German industry standard) for stair construction

How tall a step can be, how deep, how curves are built, etc

[languid gulch]

i don't mind that at all really

[visual tree]

Yes, that's exactly to what I was referring 👍

[languid gulch]

i've seen some stupid fucking stairs

uneven heights, steps too narrow

might as well be a damn ladder

[visual tree]

There are so many historical buildings here from Habsburg era falling apart since mostly old people with no money live in them and they can't afford "facadism"

[dire igloo]

There's this https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kazcry/why_the_german_manholes_in_cyerpunk77_are/

[dire igloo]

Which btw, can still be a violation if the interior construction is part of the protection - like most timberframe houses (or the stairs in that guy's video)

[dire igloo]

The amazing part about this is:
Because basically all stairs are constructed like this, you can almost immediately tell when they are not

[languid gulch]

predictability is nice

[visual tree]

My favourite buildings which I think were built during Habsburg era:

[languid gulch]

meanwhile, my house is built in the complete opposite way: the exterior walls are all supporting, with none inside. i can knock out or move any wall i want

which is also different from the rest of the stereotypical american house

roof is stupidly strong because of it 🤣

[visual tree]

I hate how it's illegal to demolish supporting walls in buildings which could statics here but there are no people who would punish apartment owners if they tried doing that

[languid gulch]

oh the landlords would definitely punish

[visual tree]

I once worked for a company with an office in an old building. Some rich architect bought an apartment beneath our office and I think he demolished the supporting walls....

Not to mention the whole building is shaking already when the trams pass by

I do hope everything was done according to the law and building statics was not affected....

[dire igloo]

Ironically, this looks AI generated somehow

[languid gulch]

it's really kinda upsetting that some places look so good that they seem fake

[visual tree]

Maybe it's photoshopped a little but the building is real

[languid gulch]

might be desaturated a bit

[visual tree]

Some AI-generated images are so good right now they managed to fool me too

I fear what DeepFake will look like in 10 years. It's a nightmare already because people can't tell what's real or fake anymore

[dire igloo]

My stupid landlord gave me the cheapest fucking kitchen appliances with an incredibly poorly thought out kitchen layout.
And when I asked him if I could rip it out and replace it, he told me it would increase the apartments rentability.

It's a landlord's market, he's gonna find a new renter in no time.
Plus, many people prefer to have a kitchen they chose over a stupidly bad one like I have. When I moved in, the kitchen would've been the main reason for me to not take the apartment

[languid gulch]

people without critical thinking have always confused fake with real

[dire igloo]

Oversaturation actually.
Very vibrant colors that pop out almost a bit too much

[languid gulch]

if you have the room to store some of the garbage, i'd still buy my own stuff & install it 🤣

[languid gulch]

oh brain fart

[dire igloo]

He allowed me to do so, but a friend of mine is using that room for storage rn, so there ain't enough space - and it'd be a lot of work that I'd have to undo upon moving out

[dire igloo]

Also quite smooth appearance, idk how else to describe it

[languid gulch]

depending on how bad the appliances are, swapping them out, even having to pay for the reinstall, might make it worth it over time 🤣

but yea if it's too much of a pain, definitely not worth doing

[visual tree]

Another image of the same building:

[languid gulch]

copper roofing?

[visual tree]

Not sure tbh

[dire igloo]

Most likely

Imagine they restored every copper roof to look like cooper again

People would RAGE

[languid gulch]

i can't think of anything else with that look

[dire igloo]

Hm, so it's just a general out of place vibe for that building with the greenery around it

[languid gulch]

still upset at how green everywhere else is 🤣

[visual tree]

Can confirm. This would happen 100%

[languid gulch]

i wonder if some shops keep giant sheets of copper outside & patina'd just for that kind of purpose so you don't have to wait 50 years for it to green

[dire igloo]

Hm, I kinda want a digital artist to Photoshop historic buildings to what they used to look like

Like when the Sistine chapel was restored and the paintings were suddenly vibrant as hell instead of dull and dark from the soot that accumulated

-# (pun intended)

[visual tree]

You can do it inside with chemicals much faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq6sngVAgfg

[dire igloo]

I mean, it's a simple oxidization reaction, you don't need to do it in the open air

[languid gulch]

i always feel like that kind of process looks fake once it's installed

[dire igloo]

Tho that reminds me of Widmanstätten patterns:
A crystalline structure that occurs when iron alloys cool very slowly over millions of years

They're exclusively found in meteorites because no lab on earth can recreate these circumstances

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widmanstätten_pattern

It's absolutely amazing

And there's a guy that makes jewelry from it:
https://youtu.be/F_rbqJ1eXV8

Yes, I'm nerding out over this.
Yes, this is absolutely because I purchased one of these dog tags earlier this week

That dude also makes rings from super conductor btw

[night girder]

Old (EU) buildings are dope.

This is a castle in the village* where I got raised. Walked around it a lot as a kid with my grandpa.

In **1287 **it became the property of the knight Gerard van Wezemaal.

That's how old it is. Now some rich prick owns it.

[dire igloo]

This is a former farm villa close to where I live
It's unknown how old it is, but in the 14th century it was already owned by the bishop (had a major renovation in the mid-1700s)

Or if you leave the city to the west, you get to this castle - age also unknown, first documented in the 11th century

Münster is an absolutely beautiful city with an incredible history and a lovely landscape

It got the LivCom-Award in 2004 too

[dire igloo]

Europe is so funny, you can go to any place and there's a castle within walking distance

And usually, it's quite a lovely hike to get there

[night girder]

Yeah, happy they survived the age of time.

[dire igloo]

And even if they didn't: ruins are still cool

I've visited this monastery ruin once, there were folks flying fpv drones through it
Was absolutely amazing to watch

[visual tree]

I live 10 minutes away from a castle

[dire igloo]

That's a cool one

I used to see this one every day on my way to work

Oh damn:
The oldest school in my city is almost a thousand years older than the US constitution

[hardy forge]

soo i was considering just replacing my cpu, cause i like my pc, its a good midrange build

BUT and i7 7700 is still upwards of £100

like bruH!

+probs need new thermal paste#

[dire igloo]

Uhm... Hate to break it to you, but 7th gen Intel only qualifies for entry level nowadays

[hardy forge]

Wdym

[dire igloo]

good paste is cheap, get some TF7 or MX6. TFX if you're feeling fancy or expect to use it for laptops and GPUs too

[hardy forge]

What does this mean

[dire igloo]

www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i7_7700-vs-amd_ryzen_5_5600

It gets wrecked by even a Ryzen 5 5600

Which is like a 12400F

That's modern day entry level for new PC builds

[hardy forge]

Im not lookking for an upgrade

Im just looking to replace

[dire igloo]

I know

[hardy forge]

Cquse my Mobo is intel only

[dire igloo]

I'm just correcting your terminology

[dire igloo]

More precisely: your motherboard is 6th and 7th gen Intel only

However, it can be worthwhile to replace both the CPU and the MB, not just the CPU

Because you get more options, like a used AM4 combo

Or some lga1700 stuff (make sure it's ddr4 tho)

[dire igloo]

Calling a PC with an i7-7700 a "good midrange build" is straight up wrong in my book

For context:
An i7-7700 loses to an i3-12100F.
That's an i3 series CPU from three generations ago. It released in Q1 2022.

www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i7_7700-vs-intel_core_i3_12100f

[pure karma]

yeaaaa whats up with that lol

[dire igloo]

It's called having a history

[pure karma]

my history is getting deported soooo...

[dire igloo]

More precisely, a history of feudalism

[twin dew]

Thousand years where those were being build for defence?
And then lot were kept once they became obsolete for war.

[dire igloo]

Y'all's history got manifest destiny'd away

[dire igloo]

Still had practical benefits.
If it protects against soldiers marching in, it protects against wildlife pillaging storages

[twin dew]

Usually just got new types of outer defences.
As tearing them down would have been so large undertaking.

And lot of the later ones are just mansions built to look somewhat like a castle.

As styling.

[night girder]

I think some of them were used during WO1 + 2.

They still provided solid protection against shelling etc.

[twin dew]

Gigabyte has problem where the thermal gel on GPU VRAM chips is slipping out if the GPU is in right/wrong orientation...
https://www.techpowerup.com/336384/more-owners-of-premium-gigabyte-geforce-rtx-cards-report-thermal-gel-slippage

Only tested for "standard" mounting, and not for vertical GPUs...

[pure karma]

old news

[twin dew]

And the 12V-2x6 just keeps giving:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3ivZpr-QLs

https://www.techspot.com/news/107735-nvidia-rtx-5090-owner-reports-msi-yellow-tipped.html

[pure karma]

you know whats consitent across all of these

all of them are custom cables and not the offcial nvidia adapter

its almost as if theres a patern here

[twin dew]

That last one was with the MSI provided adapter that came with the card?

[pure karma]

exactly msi custom cable not the nvidia one

[twin dew]

That official adaptor doesn't do anything different either.
I would expect if there hasn't already been case with it, then it is just down to amount sold and used.

After melting, before disconnecting, with suitable low resistance tester from middle of cable to card pads:

Would need to be +-10% or less of each other to be in spec of the pins for current with 5090.

1.7mOhm for the crimp with Corsair cable.
(the connection from wire to pin)

[night girder]

Yikes, NAS doesn't like small writes. RAID.

[willow pike]

they're all 16 pin power connectors

that's it that's the common thing that makes them burn

[night girder]

You sure? Doesn't coating material also have anything to do with it? The material around the pins. The, I don't know what material it is, plastic?

The yellow and black parts.

[pure karma]

yooo my new motherboard arived waay early whaaat

it was meant to arive in like darn june

absolutely soaking wet tho cause it sat in the rain

[night girder]

I ordered a battery on amazon 5 days ago. Today I got a mail the status is "send". Next one will be "underway for delivery". 5 days ... just to send a battery😦

The promised delivery date is wednesday. Curious if it will make it in time.

Don't get angry at me Baldur! I had no choice but to use amazon

[mental oriole]

I am disappointed.

[night girder]

Not you too Kit!

How are you doing btw?

[pure karma]

bruh

it says lga 1700 on the box

dont tell me they fucked it up

unless they just reused some random box

[night girder]

and if they reused some random box, you might* got a used mobo that got send back?

[pure karma]

idk wtf they did but they sent me a B660 board with no cpu power conector on it dafuq

wait no is it a B460

WHAT IS THIS STUPID THING and why does it have DVI?

this might be it idk

i cant see anything to identify it through the stupid esd bag

[night girder]

do you even know what you ordered?

[pure karma]

yes

WAIT I THINK IT IS

Im too blind for this

That says B460M right?

[night girder]

think so yeah

[pure karma]

ehh whatever it sems right

it does indeed seem like the corect thing and they just used some random ahh B660 box because there the same

Seems like quite the patch job since i doubt this esd bag is made for it either

seems like it was for a custom edition

its the wrong manual too lol

[pure karma]

yep either used or sat a while cause there's literal chunks missing out of the socket cover

[mental oriole]

Tired 🙂 Got home from a full week work-trip yesterday.

[night girder]

I don't know ... I would send it back for another one. But that's me 🤷‍♂️

[night girder]

Ah, well, hopefully you can enjoy some rest now

[mental oriole]

Ye, been chilling today mostly.

[night girder]

coding or gaming? 😎

[pure karma]

if it works idc honestly

[night girder]

yeah and in a few weeks you have "random issues" ... mark this post please. Pin it.

[pure karma]

it has paste residue on it but that could just be cause they tested it

[mental oriole]

Slacking off, youtube and a little gamin. but mostly just slacking off.

[night girder]

Aah, slacking off can be so enjoyable 😄

just a lazy day.

[mental oriole]

Yup. Tomorrow some laundry and then maybe coding or blender idk yet.

[night girder]

I did my coding work today. Updated dependencies. Added some tests. Nuked a few bugs.

[mental oriole]

Nice.

I still need to setup half my project to compile on linux 😄

[pure karma]

there is one issue however

it dosent have any screws 😂

[mental oriole]

By setup is removing the need for visualstudio.

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

[night girder]

replacing it with...?

[mental oriole]

premake, but it will generate a vs solution on windows, and makefiles on linux, and then you have to use something like bear to generate a vscode config file for clangd to get syntax highlights.

Might try running neovim or something later but not for now.

[night girder]

Sounds fun 😄

[mental oriole]

I just need to generate some config files atm then fix compile errors that does not get enabled on windows with Wall or Wextra... But the errors are pretty straight forward at least.

[pure karma]

oh yea no i just noticed the entire bottom pcie slot is snapped off

[night girder]

Mhm, lucky you

[night girder]

I had to figure out a stupid race condition that gave false possitives during my tests.

but I figured it out. Solution was rather simple.

[mental oriole]

Pain to debug those. I feel you.

[pure karma]

do i even bother trying it

[night girder]

Ah, we learn from it. I hope.

[mental oriole]

I hope so 😄

[night girder]

You were working on a game engine right?

[mental oriole]

mmm whenever I feel like... can't say I'm making much progress atm, it goes in waves.

[night girder]

ah, yeah I know how that goes

but I rather work on my own project in steps with periods of inactivity than feel burned up or something. Or not having fun.

[mental oriole]

Yup. That's how I roll as well.

[pure karma]

alright well i packaged it back up

im gonna try to return it even if ods are thats why they used a diffrent box that way it looks like your returning a diffrent product but whatever

[pure karma]

well now what cause theres ltierally no other boards available

[sharp oasis]

@pure karma I cannot be beat

I'll get 10k on a laptop with forced induction

[pure karma]

iv gotten 8K with the worst cooling on earth

[safe trench]

me just watching you all as mine strugles to run a virtual box with ubutunu installed

[pure karma]

Me still getting 15 fps in bloons 😂

[safe trench]

litterally average lenevo at 100% power

[sharp oasis]

I can't OC at all and my cooling is bad unless I give it a fucking leaf blower

[pure karma]

i cant oc either

well i can oc gpu but then im gonna blow the power

😂

[safe trench]

btw what linux distro do you recommend for just someone trying to game on a laptop with 1 2tb ssd dual boot?
my choices that im planning on doing is either mint or ubuntu

[pure karma]

iv only tried ubutu

[safe trench]

well mint is pretty nice

its like ubuntu but slightly cleaner

[charred relic]

I just installed Mint last night, seems pretty slick so far.

[pure karma]

i dont like mints so in turn i dont want to like mint linux lol

[charred relic]

But they have Cinnamon 😉

[safe trench]

ive never got how people like the smell of cinnamon

[night girder]

Precisie = Precision. Hallucinaties = hallucinations. A article about how accurate AI information is (precision) and how much is makes up stuff (hallucination).

With good translator you might be able to read it: tweakers.net/reviews/13236/groot-probleem-met-nieuwe-ai-modellen-ze-vertellen-je-meer-onzin.html

[languid gulch]

so is the 5060 gonna be a 4gb card?

[night girder]

Sure.

[languid gulch]

didn't know there was a spec sheet out yet

thought they'd keep it quiet since the 5060Ti was quashed pretty hard

[night girder]

Well, half of it is unconfirmed 😛 The little * everywhere.

[verbal raft]

i would laugh about it all year

[torn rover]

that dont sound right partner "5% about 5 hours left of batteri life"

[twin dew]

So 5060 will be same performance as 4060 based on Nvidias own marketing (double perfomance with MFG)

[torn rover]

and the 4060 performance only a bit better then the 3060

alr so i have a werid problem, can someone help me.
so when im tabbed out the game sound super good but when im tabbed in it sounds like im under water

[twin dew]

Which also explains why Nvidia isn't providing any drivers to anyone for testing, before the hard launch.
And put that launch so that everyone is at Computex, so reviews will come out week or so after launch.

[torn rover]

could you help me with the problem?

i think i could the problem.

its logitech messing with the audio >:(

i fixed it, only been a problem for MONTHS

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386

So... a 5060 is a glorified 3060? 🤣

[night girder]

Sounds about right.

Ah, you restating what GN already said.

[willow pike]

-# who the fuck

who says this shit

www.pcgamer.com/hardware/doom-the-dark-ages-pc-performance-analysis-always-on-ray-tracing-isnt-a-problem-and-even-a-cheap-gaming-laptop-copes-just-fine/

doom

they're using frame gen in Doom

[feral drift]

Can't wait to play Oblivion in Ultra with this new setup..

[night girder]

And why should they not use frame gen in Doom? What makes Doom so special.

Oh wait, you are refering to "doom runs on everything" meme.

well

[willow pike]

I'm referring to it being a famously fast paced shooter

and frame gen makes input latency worse

it's the kind of game you do not want to use frame gen on

[night girder]

Funny that people say it's a optimized game.

But I read reviews that tell FPS goes to shit when you turn of framegeneration

So I guess it's optimized framegeneration game. But can't do it without framegen.

[torn rover]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

[night girder]

However, the engine is designed to not go overboard with ray tracing effects, so the performance hit is quite reasonable, or we'd see AMD RDNA 3 cards do much worse than they do right now.

That's nice to read.

Crazy how they can go from Doom Eternal, which has** amazing optimization**, straight back to the terrible sloppy optimization so many games come out with now

Seems not everyone agrees with you 😄

[twin dew]

The max settings run amazing, but the performance requirement delta between max and min is way too small.

And there wasn't that much visual difference either between those.

But maybe those max defaults autoinclude framegen too, and wasn't just mentioned.

[night girder]

The two I posted are with and without framegen. 1080. Ultra Nightmare.

But that doesn't tell much about optimization.

I can have 200 FPS and still see textures load because of draw distance etc. And this happened in satisfactory.

I will wait for steam reviews, they always give me a direction 😄

[twin dew]

Neither talks about framegen, just upscaling.

In the shot descriptions up top.

[night girder]

oh sorry my bad.

DLSS is framegen no?

[twin dew]

DLSS is upscaling, DLSS-FG is the framegen part.

[night girder]

Ugh 😭 Why so confusing.

[twin dew]

So those with "FG" in that chart are with framegen.

So 33 FPS without upscaling, with RX6600, on max details on Full-HD
And 178 FPS with 5090.
For 60 FPS needed 6800XT or 3070 Ti.

[night girder]

I don't know ... I got a bad feeling about this. Can be wrong.

luckily I am not a Doom enjoyer. Only the music 😄

[twin dew]

So what can be complained so far for that new Doom as I have seen it, is that they don't actually provide low details.
Their Low is about what High would normally be.

So only Ultra and High selectable, and several levels between.

[night girder]

And raytracing enforced. Which isn't AMD strongest point.

And trust me, people are already complaining about it on steam discussions.

[verbal raft]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

its just stupid

to complain about this
99% of the non RT capable cards wouldnt be able to run it either way

its even more stupid to complain about it if you have an RT capable card IMO

[night girder]

People do look to complain and farm jester awards 😄

[twin dew]

Everyone just comparing to the games with very heavy RT, thinking they would get much higher FPS without it.
But newer version of the same engine as in that Indiana Jones game.

[visual tree]

@twin dew From what I understood, DLSS basically renders game at lower resolution and upscales to higher resolution in order to reduce load on GPU and increase FPS while frame generation takes first and second frame and then uses AI to generate a frame between them?

[night girder]

But they are in the dark the same as all of us, nobody knows.

[verbal raft]

yeah, thats what it does

[twin dew]

Don't know the order.
They are actually two completely separate things that are just branded with same name.

Separate plugins etc.

[night girder]

Fuck em. Whoever came up with this.

[visual tree]

Yeah, noticed frame generation is basically a part of DLSS

[verbal raft]

AMD did the same sadly

[twin dew]

"DLSS" is just marketing name.
Then you have Upscaling and Frame Generation under that marketing.

[night girder]

Both should be strict seperate features clear to users what is what.

gamers get it

[verbal raft]

while they could have named it like "FidelityFX Frame Interpolation"

[night girder]

Or just:

Upscaling: on/off
Framegeneration: on/off

[verbal raft]

they already do that

[verbal raft]

NVIDIA could have gone like : "Deep Learning Frame Interpolation"

[twin dew]

DLSS 4 neural rendering technologies include:

• DLSS Multi Frame Generation boosts frame rates by using AI to generate up to three frames per rendered frame, powered by GeForce RTX 50 Series and fifth-generation Tensor Cores.
• DLSS Frame Generation boosts performance by using AI to generate frames while maintaining great responsiveness with NVIDIA Reflex.
• DLSS Ray Reconstruction enhances image quality by using AI to generate additional pixels for intensive ray-traced scenes. DLSS replaces hand-tuned denoisers with an NVIDIA supercomputer-trained AI network that generates higher-quality pixels between sampled rays.
• DLSS Super Resolution boosts performance by using AI to output higher-resolution frames from a lower-resolution input. DLSS samples multiple lower-resolution images and uses motion data and feedback from prior frames to construct high-quality images..
• Deep Learning Anti-Aliasing provides higher image quality with an AI-based anti-aliasing technique. DLAA uses the same Super Resolution technology developed for DLSS, constructing a more realistic, high-quality image at native resolution.

Where MFG and FG are basically one tech, SR and DLAA are second tech, and RR is third tech.

[night girder]

AI enhanced Deep learning Frame Interpolation based on cloud NFT's.

Then you have most of the buzzwords of this century.

Ah fuck, bitcoins. Mhm. Well cram bitcoin mining somewhere in there.

[twin dew]

But seems the code is now integrated and there is just one plugin that contains all the techs.

Used to be separate SR/DLAA and separate FG DLLs.

[night girder]

Also this true Baldur?

Actually you are wrong, they are putting path tracing later and AMD will likely look bad, you know why ? because Nvidia does denoising for ray tracing in hardware and AMD does it in software, it has the hardware now in RDNA4 but i doubt it will be supported.

That denoising is done hardware side for Nvidia?

[twin dew]

No idea.

[verbal raft]

Wouldn't software denoising mean that its done on the CPU ?

[twin dew]

Fixed function HW vs. shaders or like usually with GPUs.

[verbal raft]

I think the persons writing that was thinking about ray recons

AMD is making one too but its not out yet

I don't think it matters too much though

[twin dew]

And again the name is complete FUD.
It is generating "rays" with ML algo based on the actually cast rays.

Not reconstructing anything, just generating from "nothing" based on surroundings.

[verbal raft]

"FUD" ?

[verbal raft]

Huh, weird

[twin dew]

Not right term in this case strictly:
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
When propaganda is made to intruduce those, so people don't actually think because of the fear part, and get mixed where they don't know anymore what is real and what is fake.

But meaning naming something with pure marketing, and being almost opposite of the name.
Like that "Super Resolution".
Which actually means rendering at higher resolution and downscaling to monitor resolution, for better AA.
And DLSS does the exact opposite, rendering at lower resolution and upscaling to monitor.

Well, that was Super Sampling Anti-Aliasing (SSAA) etc.
Intentionally named to evoke that, where doing the exact opposite.

And "Radeon Super Resolution" does exact that, render at higher resolution and downscale.

Nope, wrong...
What was the right one...

[verbal raft]

*VSR

Virtual super resolution

[twin dew]

Yeah, sorry.

That AMD names both as "Super Resolution" is even worse.

[verbal raft]

Gotta stick to the good old marketing

[willow pike]

this is nonsense

[twin dew]

Probably, but I don't know.

[verbal raft]

no one knows : )

[willow pike]

even nvidia ray reconstruction runs on CUDA cores. that's as software as running ray denoising on radeon

[twin dew]

Having purely HW level fixed function denoicing would probably be horrible idea, as it would be then fixed in implementation and algorithm forever for that die.

[willow pike]

tensor cores rather

[twin dew]

People not understanding that "Software" in case of GPU often just means "runs on the main shader cores"

[willow pike]

DLSS is a denoising function for TAA; ray reconstruction asks it to also denoise ray tracing rather than having two separate denoisers

[willow pike]

yeah pretty much this

the reason most path tracing games run shit on radeon is they use an nvidia provided DLL to do it, ReSTIR

pretty much a black box that's hideously unoptimised and happens to run faster on geforces because of their faster ray tracing hardware

and anything that widens the gap between geforce and radeon will be pushed hard, even if it results in something so slow you wouldn't really want to run it, or need 4x multi frame gen bs

the only "dedicated hardware" in a geforce are the RT cores, who's one and only job is to run BVH calculations (they figure out what a ray hits)

ain't nothing to do with denoising

(BVH is Bounding Volume Hierarchy, a way of traversing the scene to narrow down exactly which polygon a ray hits without testing against all of them)

also ray reconstruction is still questionable. it still hallucinates shit

[twin dew]

As expected.

[willow pike]

people need to stop gassing up nvidia

[dire igloo]

Interesting, first time I'm hearing this.
Input lag absolutely, but fps not really

[twin dew]

Might be the Nvidia frame pacing thing going haywire and delaying too much.

[dire igloo]

Or maybe computational overhead causing a reduction in rendered frames despite an increase in displayed frames

fps going down from enabling FG is a new one for me

[twin dew]

That frame pacing is why they try to force HAGS to be on when using FG.
Even when FG would work without it, but you would more likely have microstutter between the real and generated frames.

[dire igloo]

Tho I have seen people mix up DLSS with FG and input lag with fps

And I can't blame them for either, the common resources on those are superficial af

[twin dew]

So many times when "Game starts lagging" when the FPS drops...

So annoying

[night girder]

and Tensor Cores for high-performance AI processing for advanced denoising, anti-aliasing and super resolution.

source: nvidia.

[willow pike]

that's what i said

[night girder]

So that's hardware that the user was speaking off.

[twin dew]

And tensor cores are just cores optimized for certain types of matrix operations, running software doing those operations.

Or possibly just parts of the main shader cores.

[night girder]

omg serious guys...

[willow pike]

not relevant to path tracing

[night girder]

then everything is code (software), because it all runs on hardware

[twin dew]

Fixed Function HW is a thing.

ROPs are, encoders and decoders are, etc.

[night girder]

and AMd uses FidelityFX (software). They call it SDK (software development kit).

[twin dew]

We don't know enough to know if Nvidia running the stuff on Tensor cores vs. AMD running the stuff on shader cores is important or not.

[night girder]

Well, NVIDIA blogs: we use hardware for denoising. And so far what I read on AMD side is: we mostly leverage software.

[willow pike]

tensor cores are still general purpose because they can run any calculation you want as defined by software

RT cores are fixed function; this is the definition of "done in hardware"

it's also not possible to completely separate tensor cores from CUDA cores, they're like Siamese twins in that regard

they share many body parts

nvidia's documentation says as much, some CUDA operations block tensor cores, and vice versa

[twin dew]

Both are running compiled for GPU software on GPU hardware that isn't fixed function.

And the rest is marketing.

[night girder]

I read that both Cuda and Tensor cores are fixed 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Fixed function hardware takes input, does fixed thing to it, and then outputs always same thing for the same input data.
No actual instructions.

You can just select certain long "code paths"

CUDA and Tensor cores are programmable general purpose hardware.

[willow pike]

fixed function hardware is like taking a piece of software and directly turning it into hardware. not programmable. the whole point of CUDA cores is they're programmable

[twin dew]

Before combined Shader and Vertex cores, that vertex part was fixed function for example.

[midnight osprey]

does anyone know how to get rid of this pls?

i've tried various ways ... doesn't appear to be MS, AMD related

[twin dew]

IIRC that was from some Razer software?

[midnight osprey]

ah

you helped me last time and I totally forgot

i'll research the razor route, thanks

[twin dew]

Ctrl shift Q

[midnight osprey]

gentleman!

works thanks

[twin dew]

And go disable it permanently?

[midnight osprey]

you mean until I reinstall WinWoes? lol

[night girder]

In summary, CUDA cores are programmable and flexible, while Tensor cores are fixed hardware optimized for specific tasks in AI and machine learning.

[willow pike]

my god

[twin dew]

Not really, just different operands with more limited scope of programmability.

[night girder]

Baldur wants to be right.

[twin dew]

Not general purpose.

[willow pike]

not gonna lie you're pushing this really hard when you don't understand what a thing is and are citing other people's work

i can program a tensor core to run Doom if I wanted to

[twin dew]

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/programming-tensor-cores-cuda-9/

[willow pike]

I can't make an RT core do that

[night girder]

Nah, I am double checking what you both are telling me. Because I am not that stupid to just believe everything you say 🤣

[twin dew]

NVIDIA V100 Tensor Cores are programmable matrix-multiply-and-accumulate units that can deliver up to 125 Tensor TFLOPS for training and inference applications.

[night girder]

My main confussion comes from wikipedia, but that's about TPU.

In the period 2015–2017 Google invented the **Tensor Processing Unit **(TPU).[39] TPUs are dedicated, fixed function hardware units that specialize in the matrix multiplications needed for tensor products

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_(machine_learning)

[willow pike]

that's a Google thing

tensor isn't a brand

[twin dew]

Someone wrote bad thing, not even those Google ASICs are fixed function.

[night girder]

🤦

Later in 2017, Nvidia released its own Tensor Core with the Volta GPU architecture.

Literal the next paragraph on the wikipage.

[twin dew]

They are very limited scope programmable units.

[willow pike]

yes

[twin dew]

Like the Nvidia Tensor cores.

[willow pike]

same name, completely different things

a scalar is a point in space; a vector is a point with a direction; a tensor is a point with multiple directions

[twin dew]

Nah, same thing, just dies with JUST tensor cores:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_Processing_Unit

[night girder]

Whyzenman, maybe next time not accuse me of not knowing wtf I am talking about rofl 🤣

[willow pike]

because you don't

[night girder]

you neither, kettle calls pot black

[twin dew]

But still programmable inside the supported instructions.
Just that those instructions supported are very limited to just the ones needed for ML training.

[willow pike]

this is like saying the Google pixel has better photos because it's called a pixel

[night girder]

I think that for certain people that falls under "fixed function" else they wouldn't have wrote it on a wikipage.

And the fact that nobody corrected it on the page. Maybe there is a discussion not sure.

[dire igloo]

Calling someone out for false statements doesn't need one to be an expert

[willow pike]

iunno why i even bother, you do this shit all the time; obstinate to the last

[night girder]

True. But saying Google Tensor is different than Nvidia. While it's not

And 5 minutes before that telling me how wrong I am is just laughable to me.

[dire igloo]

Also, I don't need to be a chef to notice if my dish has too much salt

[willow pike]

I'm gonna go literally touch grass and mow the lawn

[dire igloo]

That's one very closeup way of mowing the lawn

[twin dew]

Actual fixed function HW does lot more than just "single step" (well, two for each spot in the three matrixes) with the Matrix Multiply-Add) that Tensor cores do.

Like decoders taking in stream of compressed bits in certain codec and outputting uncompressed frames.

BVH traversal RT-HW taking in ray and outputting the intersect point or similar, doing the whole traversal in "one op".

Instead of SW having to do one step, get result from general purpose core, then do next step, until finding the endpoint.

Fused-Multiply-Add is base general purpose instruction today in most architechtures.
That Matrix part just allows you to run it at same time for lot of values.

4x4 matrix (so 16 values) in that Volta.

[night girder]

Ok, guess internet is wrong.

[twin dew]

This was from that Nvidia developer documentation.

[night girder]

An RT core is a fixed-function hardware that does what the spiritual ancestor of RTX, NVIDIA Optix, did over CUDA cores. You input the mathematical representation of a ray, and it will transverse the scene to calculate the point of intersection with any triangle in the scene.

NVIDIA thus built the first fixed-function component for tensor ops, called simply "Tensor Cores".

[twin dew]

RT core is actual BVH fixed function HW.
And Nvidia itself says that Tensor Cores are programmable?

[night girder]

Where they always programmable?

[twin dew]

That is Volta age doc?

So yes?

[night girder]

Then I don't know where the misinformation comes from 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Probably from the fact that those units only do those Matrix Fused-Multiply-Add instructions?
But you can select input and output formats (and so the precision etc).
So they straddle between programmable in general sense and fixed function.

At least in that early Volta version.

But they do only one (dual) step per instruction.
And the same instruction for three datum instead of three matrixes of 16 datum exist in most archs.

[night girder]

NVIDIA’s Hopper GPU architecture contains multiple fixed-function units per compute unit, including an asynchronous data movement unit (TMA) and an asynchronous matrix multiplication unit (Tensor Core).

[twin dew]

Where are real fixed function HW does much more than that.

[night girder]

Gotcha.

[twin dew]

That seems to be from single publification?
But yes, it is posted on Nvidias site too.
So Nvidia might have changed their preferred language, or just researchers saying that.

[night girder]

🤷‍♂️

d1qx31qr3h6wln.cloudfront.net/publications/Cypress_PLDI_25.pdf paper from 2025 (also posted on Nvidia website).

[twin dew]

But the same blurb then continues as:

Efficiently utilizing these units requires a fundamentally different programming style than previous architectures; programmers must now develop warp-specialized kernels that orchestrate producer-consumer pipelines between the asynchronous units.

[night girder]

wait a moment ... Publication Date: Monday, June 16, 2025 🤨

Received 2024-11-12; accepted 2025-03-06. (from paper itself).

Anyway, recent information.

[twin dew]

And 2023 Nvidia still called them programmable, not fixed-function.

[night girder]

Cypress targets tensor algebraic computations that leverage asynchronous** fixed-function units** like the Tensor Core and TMA

But this use of "fixed-functions" is confussing right?

Written by:

ROHAN YADAV∗, Stanford University, USA
MICHAEL GARLAND, NVIDIA, USA
ALEX AIKEN∗, Stanford University, USA
MICHAEL BAUER, NVIDIA, USA

[twin dew]

Well, at least CUDA still has tons of different mma.stuff instructions to run things on those tensor "cores", that seem to be more like just additional execution units with very narrow focus when looked in more.
That Nvidia just likes to call as "Tensor Cores" to make them seem fully separate for marketing.
But cannot know.

And still just runs one "step" per "instruction", so I really wouldn't call that fixed function myself, as I would reserve that name for the more complex fixed function stuff that does entire processes.

But like I said, straddles the divide.

Depending on what level you look at it.

[night girder]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at Baldur. 👍

When I started to dig into the subject, I found conflicting information.

but I know what you mean with complex stuff, saw some diagrams of pipelines.

[twin dew]

So each of the "tensor core" execution units can do single fused-multiply-add on certain size matrixes in specific formats.
But you provide in the CUDA programming the three source memory addresses, the destination memory address and the formats to be used for each of the Matrix-FMA runs.

Or probably registers at that point, and then need to handle the register<->memory stuff if needed with additional instructions for the GPU.

But when you go to that, from Zen 4, two "fixed function" FMA and two "fixed function" FADD execution units from inside each of the cores:

[night girder]

kkinda sick cuda can have up to 65535 thread blocks, and 512 threads/block. (even 1024 per block)

[twin dew]

So each Zen 4 core contains Integer part, and Floating point part, with separate registers and load/store units.
And the Floating point parts actual work is done with units where two can just do A*B+C=D, and two can just do A+B=D.

The Nvidia Blackwell SM each contain four units, each with some (64?) FP32, some FP32/INT32 (64?) and some (named as 4, as can probably do four different matrix sets per clock cycle, in actuality more) Matrix-FMA (Tensor) execution units.
Where they name each of those FP32 and FP32/INT32 execution units as "CUDA Cores", but in fact they aren't really independent, and are more like those final level execution units in CPUs, just linked together.

Just branded with separate name for marketing.

Don't know the warp-size today on Nvidia.
AMD uses those "cores" in either 32 or 64 wide chunks.
So while 9070 XT "has" 4096 "Stream Processors", they are in fact just 128 actual cores that can do same instruction 32 times in parallel.

On different data each.

And in same way the matrix-part in Tensor cores just means they manage memory in larger chunks, and then do same instruction multiple times in parallel.
So with Volta, that size per matrix was 4x4, so 16 entries.
So each tensor core was just 16 FMA units in parallel and the data was delivered in packaged chunks, and you couldn't select 16 different sources, but had to pack the data to be calculated into that "matrix"

Just with much less different floating point formats supported than the general purpose FMA units in the GPUs FP32 units, so less space for same performance.

Both from the data chunking, and from less supported formats.

And narrower max width as one large part.
As Volta as "first" could only take FP16 inputs, and then used either FP16 or FP32 middle and end value formats.

So half the width needing to be supported for inputs, saving lot of transistors both in storage and calculating stages.

[night girder]

I wonder if the user saying denoising is hardware side for Nvidia was thinking about OptiX 8 or alter and the AI denoiser.

[vital moth]

This is how it should work? Shouldn't they be on the same line?

[low scaffold]

Hello there fellow Pioneer!
You're currently chatting in off-topic channels.

Please note, the entire off-topic category is reserved for not Satisfactory related chattery. To comply with your FICSIT Inc. contract, please make use of the appropriate channels in the Satisfactory category. Thank you!

Command executed by: fireworker2000

[night girder]

Bluetooth 6.1 implements randomized resolvable private address. Since bluetooth 4.2 the mac adress will change every x hours at set intervals. Now the adress will change at random intervals.
Doubt if this will add a lot of extra security. It should combat unwanted tracking of bluetooth devices

Besides that, the switching of the adress is now controller by the bluetooth controller itself, which should save battery life.

[safe trench]

still wont fix my aether lamp just randomly turning on (worst purchase of my entire life)

[charred relic]

Find those responsible and ensure that they suffer.

I've only owned one product from them, left button went double clicky on me after about a year :/

I'm going to just start replacing the damn switches... I bet you can source them somewhere easy enough

Now that I'm thinking about it I really do hate the number of mice I've tossed because that one switch went wonky but everything else was anywhere from good to great shape otherwise

[safe trench]

my deathadder went thru so much

it still works "fine"

[charred relic]

I just have bad luck with the left button or something..always have

Pretty sure I tossed that one and a one maybe two more in a box somewhere around here as "backups" over time. Might pop them open and see if I can get switches

[twin dew]

Double post?

[night girder]

?

[twin dew]

Ah, those arrows are new in the other one, any other difference?

[night girder]

Yes 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDoRXn2GOCw Full Video

[twin dew]

No, exact same graphs in both, just that the second one adds the relative performance with arrow on right.

So the first one is redundant.

[night girder]

yes

[pure karma]

who needs file explorer anyway

[mental oriole]

I don't.

[soft bloom]

Nautilus is much better

[soft bloom]

enjoying Windows?

Nautilus: I can search threough hundreds thousands of files in mere seconds
Explorer: 100 screeenshots? come grab a coffe and maybe when it's ice cold I will list them in wrong order

[jagged snow]

Didn't nautilus get renamed to GNOME files or something like that?

[tough owl]

Yea

[manic cipher]

Modifying my desk so I can play Cities Skylines 2 without my computer overheating.

[safe trench]

can it run cryi-

[languid gulch]

i've been tempted to find a way to route some air conditioning ducting into my pc

or maybe route the exhaust into the air returns

[safe trench]

try doing that with a car

tell me how that goes

[languid gulch]

my car doesn't have that

[safe trench]

what happens if you have a sealed pipe moving your breathe to your nose

how would that go

[tribal kraken]

Remote radiator with watercooling been working fine, soo nice and cool in PC room. But weather also been cold so actually need the PC for heating 😄

[languid gulch]

lol

r134A cooled system

[tribal kraken]

Some sort of heat exchanger/chiller would work, that would not let the coolant in PC too cold to avoid condensation

[languid gulch]

yea, i just like the idea of moving the heat completely out of a room

[safe trench]

you would like arizona

[languid gulch]

guess what

[safe trench]

you live there

[languid gulch]

ayup

[safe trench]

makes sense

[safe trench]

just make a solar connectration tower

to warm up your food
im sure its hot enough if you have enough space

[languid gulch]

lol idk if i want a couple tons of molten salt over my head

[safe trench]

pizza heating pc then

im sure if you play long enough and overclock 5090s hard enough it can work a little bit

[languid gulch]

i'd have full solar on my house if the policy around here wasn't so stupid

[safe trench]

god bless america!11!!1!1! and bless our freedom!1!!1!1!
my ass

[languid gulch]

oh it's even dumber than standard

you're not allowed to hook your PV straight into your house

has to go to the grid first, then they give you a discount on your elec bill

[safe trench]

oh bruh what the fuck

im sorry but

id kms if i was forced to live there

[languid gulch]

local power company lobbying ensured that

[safe trench]

i legit think north korea is mroe free

[safe trench]

yep, not suprised

perfect spot for solar ruined

[languid gulch]

yup

[safe trench]

just gotta squeeze in those extra few cashdollars

[languid gulch]

if we put PV on every roof in the valley we could power all of north america

[safe trench]

reminds me of that one africa continent turning into a solar pannel farm

also yes i am smarter than 60% of americans

africa is a continent
not a country

[languid gulch]

whose line moment 🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNT3BGvyePM

[safe trench]

ah nah

i almost began tearing

theres no way hes a senior

you know what i love

how stupid americans are when it comes to their freedom of speech

litterally xkcd

[languid gulch]

yup

i have a severe allergy to BS

[safe trench]

this is also called as, more than 12 neurons

[dire igloo]

Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins

Tho that's not always practiced - German freedom of religion for example allows you to freely live out your religion, but it doesn't protect you from others living out their religion

[twin dew]

What?
Point of the stuff is that what YOU do is not allowed to affect OTHERS.
You can practice (almost?) any religion, but you cannot force your religion onto others.
You can swing around however you like, as long as you don't hit someone or cause other damage etc.

[wanton orchid]

btw the "it stops where other begin" is bullshit
and actually toxic as fuck
it actually overlap
that's also what happens when you build something with others
and it actually overlap so much that if you remove that overlap you roll the whole society back to rock and sticks
and that's what happened lately
all what is built with others is overlap
and it's for best
"stop where other begin" is only when you are constantly fighting (and only fighting) others

[twin dew]

Yeah, not the whole thing, just very basic simplification.
But lot of the stuff going on is people who want to force their beliefs on others rolling stuff back.

[wanton orchid]

"critical thinking" is vague
as the word used are not descriptive
it's not self explanatory
which makes that phrase a bit backward as it's supposed to promote some sort of science

it's not so much if you go on the ground of it
it's just people got teached subjectively ironically

written math is like a language a syntax
it's a ground for communicating logic

1+1 = 2
and 2 is not 3
is one of the ground of this language
that's not what it can convey
it's like saying the potato is macflury to the moon

you know where it comes from then mate
your math is alright
it's only the context in which you are pushed to try to make use of it which does not work out then

typical academia moment

"it's not math if you are not wearing the robe"

"I'm in a wheelchair mf"

this has nothing to do with science

it's only academia bs

level uo ?

what do you mean by level up

[wanton orchid]

some people may say "it's not the academia I know you are talking about. it can be nice sometimes"
without figuring out that the academia I'm talking about is in the freaking name, the academia I'm talking about is in the etymology "academia" comes from
the "good academia" is simply not academia, it's simply science, and an other system that may be look alike because it had to look like academia to emerge aside of it for political reasons
but it's something else way better
and it could be even better if it didn't try so much to look like academia
Einstein rent moment BTW
that's in part what he criticized with the elephant and fish imagery

if you wonder why movies and stuff saying << the "system" is a ripp off of old royal system which only fakes not being one>> hit so hard
it's because : to this day this is still mostly true unfortunately
it's a very dangerous game
hence why world is still so unstable
it's been a constant struggle and it will still be for at least few decades more

that's why anime like one piece are actually much more on point than lot of people make it look like
"but power system is broken" "but luffy is just lucky"
yes and ?
it's not the point
the point is background and goals
it's adventure through shit
it's a Shonen, a good one
it's a lesson about life

and there is no fucking actual reason not to fight even

[verbal raft]

bro seriously put a copyright mark on his videos LMFAO

[wanton orchid]

I wont blame them honestly, there are so many copycat on youtube now
or pure react content

even if no one is doing half your numbers, 50 of them do a lot more
you want to be able to take them down by scaring youtube teams
because apparently they only move with fear

[verbal raft]

ehh
i REALLY dont think thats why its there

[wanton orchid]

at least here in EU copyright mark does not have literal copyright value
it's simply a warning

[verbal raft]

cuz that guy has always copyright strcuk people that critisize him
thus i think its there just so he can sort of justify it

[wanton orchid]

mew ?

[dire igloo]

Your freedom to have a nose ends where my swings begin?

ngl, that's a fire line, I'm gonna keep that for my DND campaign

[pure karma]

isent that the guy that roasts companies game development competence with fully ai generated content?

[soft bloom]

Results show that all studied MP act as immersion nuclei, and aging processes can modify this ice nucleating activity, leading, primarily, to decreases in ice nucleating activity for LDPE, PP, and PET. The ice nucleating activity of PVC generally increased following aging, which we attribute to a cleaning of chemical defects present on the surface of the stock material. Chemical changes were monitored with infrared spectroscopy (ATR-FTIR), and the growth of a peak at 1650–1800 cm–1 was associated with a decrease in ice nucleating activity while loss of an existing peak in that region was associated with an increase in ice nucleating activity. The studied MP have ice nucleating activities sufficient to be a non-negligible source of ice nucleating particles in the atmosphere if present in sufficiently high concentrations.
pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsestair.4c00146

[safe trench]

make a reddit post saying "do it for the meme!" to cover any insurance/medical bills if it leaks

[languid gulch]

i'm partial to the wobbly dildo of power myself

[safe trench]

i mean listen

[languid gulch]

🤣

[safe trench]

you would be like
the only person in the world who heats their pizza with molten salt

would be a good flex/meme

[languid gulch]

oh it's very literal. it's an alternate to a wind turbine

[safe trench]

im glad the africa solar project failed

[languid gulch]

i do like the idea of orbital microwave beamed power

[safe trench]

just do that around the sun 🙄

[languid gulch]

that's dyson swarm stuff

too far off for us for now

[safe trench]

after all according to some morons "were a type 2 civilisation"

[languid gulch]

LOL

[safe trench]

just do gofundme