off-topic-tech

[somber fox]

still laughing in peak pc performance

[night girder]

Oh, this dick measuring contest is going to be fun to read.

[somber fox]

Theres no contest, he just is alittle wrong about how ram works and likes to bottleneck parts of his system.

[twin dew]

🤣

[somber fox]

but by all means, leave that ram at 2133 and lose out on % of performance

[night girder]

🤣

[somber fox]

If you dont wanna worry about it, buy prebuild.

[night girder]

Baldur, is this one of your old time IRC friends or something?

you sneaked into here?

[somber fox]

idk this mans

[twin dew]

No, some idiot newbie that started to give bad advice on main channel.

[somber fox]

LOL falls into shit talkery? nice

Least my pc isnt trash at 2133

[night girder]

Man 🙈

Don't get Baldur started on RAM.

[somber fox]

People stuck in 2010 style systems act like him.

scared to overclock\

[twin dew]

You don't know anything about my personal system?

[somber fox]

Prolly think that all liquid systems are bad lmfao

[twin dew]

🤣

[night girder]

You should really learn to know someone first 😛

intoxicated?

[mental oriole]

Same, I sure hope next gen has at least 24Gb vram...

[night girder]

You know who else is toxic?

https://tenor.com/view/britney-spears-toxic-valeria-marini-tale-e-quale-gif-27294048

It all started with Britney.

Now we are all Toxic.

[night girder]

new Lian LI cases (US):

Finished with wood.

[pure karma]

nice it looks like there covered in cardboard

[night girder]

It looks a bit odd yeah.

[tough owl]

kinda like em

[night girder]

Yeah, the picture I posted is just a bit shit.

Bad photoshop.

[tough owl]

I could do better

[pure karma]

flip the wood and metal and it would probably look 50x better

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9pvpvP9WRg

This might be better.

Ok, video is not better.

Also fake as shit 😄

It feels like Lian Li wanted to copy Fractal:

But didn't want to do exact same thing with the wood. So they put it on the edges 😛

[pure karma]

well atleast fractal cases look decent

[night girder]

Although the wood seems to look better for Fractal. It's lighter. Or greyish?

[pure karma]

now just put the wood on every pannel

the best part about having a wooden case

is your entire pc would burn down

[night girder]

Now this is a wooden case:

Fuck airflow, but it looks dope.

[tribal kraken]

It seems like a trend

[pure karma]

NOW THAT is a good wood case

[hardy forge]

dude...i need this

[tribal kraken]

Its from Finnish tech forum gallery

[hardy forge]

damn

also
100% pc is dyin
just playing space engineers made it do a windows crash

[night girder]

combining nature with technology

[tribal kraken]

I dont like German engineering in cars, too much tech that can break. But damn that Aquacomputer Aquasuite is nice software for water cooling. Soo happy how the pump and fans can be setup with temp sensors

[mental oriole]

Would buy if the side panel was metal/ wood, no point for me to see into teh case.

But I have my smol lian li case that I'm happy with

[gilded helm]

Apparently Arrow Lake is bolstering Blackwell laptops because of better 1% lows due to Arrow Lake being more efficient at lower power than Raptor Lake. Who would have guess that it'd be Intel buoying Nvidia in laptops.

[languid gulch]

i've never understood brand loyalty

i wouldn't care what the badging is on my car, i care about what's in it, how it works, and how it'll last

[charred relic]

I'm a fanboy... of whichever company has the best product for my needs

Not happy with NVidia right now but even if 95% of what they were putting out was total garbo if they release a gem that suits the price/need best...

[languid gulch]

my family went from all Chevrolet to all Hondas in the span of like 3 years because of the reliability boost, and we all basically swore off chevy because of how crap they were compared to Honda, and now i'm back to a Chevy 🤣

[gilded helm]

I wouldn't buy another Chevy based on my current experience, unless they had some way to offset a lot of the design language I dislike, and they way you're productived with Onstar and Sirius.

I hate the use of reverse lights as illumination when the car is parked. And I hate the headlights coming on every time I open the doors as I'm loading/unloading or whatever. I've toyed with the settings and disabled as much of it as I can.

The reverse light thing should be illegal.

[jagged snow]

Yeah that annoys me, it's just a cost-saving thing to avoid needing puddle lights

[charred relic]

I saw a car like that and my first thought was "So you did something super bone headed with the lights tooooo save a few bucks? Somebody there thought it was neat?

The calculus on that one was... off

I initially thought they were getting out with the car still in R

[languid gulch]

i actually wanna get slightly better headlights, because the stock ones suck

but also it's a Bolt, & not a "lemme just blind everyone in front of me"

i do definitely hate the piano black, i'm actually looking at either having it wrapped or custom textures. piano black in all cars just needs to be banned as far as i'm concerned

also there's the useless space here under the center console

just a gap

i'd much prefer if it had been closed off & used as a duct for rear air

[safe trench]

it is

[charred relic]

My older brothers first car was a Chevy... a Chevette that my dad used and replaced. 😂

Car had quite a few miles on it from driving 5 days a week from Jonesboro to Atlanta + other driving around town

That won't be happening here any time soon

Just not viable in most areas...

some countries were more built around stuff like that

we... weren't lol

In some places in the world it works quite well

plus you know... murica...independence, we love our freedoms yada and etc

just the culture shift would be monumental honestly...

What I'd really REALLY like to see is more advancement in batteries

there really hasn't been squat happen with that sort of energy storage in awhile

If they could just get them a good bit more energy dense that would help greatly with many things

like imagine electric cars with a range several times what a tank of gas gets you

Electric cars is the most compatible with the culture here I think... people will go for that if the tech gets cheaper/better

Then we need to start getting most of our electrical from nuclear fission 🙂

France is smart... they do nuclear... a lot

I think something like 70% of France's energy is from nuclear with most of the rest being other renewable

fantastic...

We also screwed up and didn't build that collider... what a huge error

They started it, it would have bigger and better than the LHC... then they stopped

Basically gave up the lead in science with that stuff

as long as the science gets done... the main thing is the one we had planned was larger/faster/better

a lot of folks here want us to go back to more of a pre WWII stance

more isolationist...

I mean ffs it took a sneak attack to get us directly involved in that one heh

we really really wanted to stay outta that and for awhile saw it as a EU problem heh

Of course the brits were getting plenty of goodies from us... we've always been allies with them

[languid gulch]

i love how japan implemented their trains. 0 intersections with vehicle roads

safer

[charred relic]

well t hey are one of the higher IQ demographics 🙂

[languid gulch]

nah, it's just easier to do when you have a big population, a newly levelled country, and a crapton of investment by the winners

[charred relic]

that's true even statistically though heh

as far as averages go they are up there on the list

They are amazingly good at making do with a tiny living space

it's fascinating to me heh

[languid gulch]

kinda hard not to on an island

[charred relic]

still not the most populated island 😄

[languid gulch]

nope

but also good luck building in mountains that just love to landslide

[charred relic]

1200 peple per square km

132k square km, population 156,927,804

over 1% of the worlds population exists on that island

I'll be going bankrupt 😄

Literally... at some point I'll have to file for chapter 7

yeah i can't invest my way out of this mountain of debt

my issue is medical expenses

years of if now, some expensive shit done lol

[languid gulch]

that is indeed expensive shit

[gilded helm]

I have tissues there

Also water

[languid gulch]

yea, i was thinking maybe a bag

but also i'd much rather have it be a duct for rear A/C

[gilded helm]

Yeah the whole center console is designed poorly. The top side as well has so much wasted space because of the gigantic Park reverse neutral drive buttons

[languid gulch]

i do like the shifter buttons now that i've gotten used to them

hell of a lot better than the weird ass cadillac &..........is it BMW or Mercedes that has the stupid fucking wheel knob thingy

ah, Jag

and apparently Ford is doing it too

[charred relic]

but... why

[pure karma]

What in the disco ball 🪩 type shifter is that

[languid gulch]

to make sure you know you're driving a fancy jag

[safe trench]

what an absolutely important change

i didnt know i needed this!1
no wonder why cars felt so bland!1!

[charred relic]

The Floatoidal (tm)

[charred relic]

new keebs scheduled to arrive the 4th

[night girder]

wheel knob is dope. I use it. You don't even notice it.

It's like using a mouse, you don't think about where the cursor goes do you?

[twin dew]

Much better solution than touchscreen in a car.

[night girder]

I have touchscreen I barely use it.

• It's a bit too far out of reach from driving position, the wheel know is within arms reach so much better.
• I don't want dirty fingers on the screen itself.

[wanton orchid]

Touchscreen is shit
it's just is a trend
launched by smartphones which are the only devices where it makes much sense (flexibility, versatility, screen space/size, compact and enduring input device)

as soon as you have more space and metal, mouse makes much more sense

ball track has been there even before current mouse designs as far as I know

I've used one before knowing mouse even though I'm pretty confident in being one of youngest persons regularly talking here

[hardy forge]

See if a pc has a radiator cpu cooler, Is there fluid in them?

Cause my pc has been in in the sun for a few days and maybe its problems have been caused by heat maybe?

[feral drift]

Think you’ve misunderstood the concept of Penta Core processor :D

[charred relic]

Yep the charge life on this mouse does indeed leave a bit to be desired

wonder if i could slap a better pack in there...

[twin dew]

Only quad-Core?

[hardy forge]

Why does the 9th gen get an awsome looking package
But then 12 and 13 jjst get a box

[twin dew]

Bad for transport.

And any kind of storage/stacking.

Also more expensive to manufacture and fill.

[hardy forge]

but the 9th Gen box just seems soo Majestic

[tough owl]

That’s when intel had loads of cash sitting around

[pure karma]

a fellow man of boxes i see

[feral drift]

Yeah corrected to Penta core didnt see the little blueish box :P

[twin dew]

But one isn't Core box

Four Cores and one Ryzen

[charred relic]

tri core is the way to go...

[twin dew]

So back to Phenom/Athlon X3:s?

[tribal kraken]

Just gave away 9800X3D box with the PC

Intel's all except 13900K also gone but boxes preserved

[charred relic]

I had a Phenom II Black Edition

Was a good CPU...

then vs now...

[hardy forge]

found out, with help from bf, i need new ram...welp!

[charred relic]

I'd suggest you ram in some new ram

[hardy forge]

lol

just gotta toruble shoot pc some more just to confirm

cause first analysis isnt always right

[pure karma]

just run occt

its going to have NO SHAME in telling you whats wrong

[hardy forge]

got a link?

cuz i dont wanna accidentlaly install some virus bs

[pure karma]

www.ocbase. com

just get rid of the space

[mental oriole]

very punny

[charred relic]

I do love me a good pun. Also a fan of the single entendre

[hardy forge]

Alr alr, no errors soo far after 30mins

[pure karma]

what are you testing exactly

only ram? probably

you could always do combined since combined just reads out all errors for everything

[hardy forge]

Alr alr

UHH SOO LIKE 341 errors in 5 mins...

Physical core 2 logical core 5

Idk what that means

[pure karma]

cpu is dead

those are cpu threads

altho 341 aint half bad

all things considered

[hardy forge]

630

And growing

[pure karma]

how about 37.5 million

[hardy forge]

Soo physical core and logical core us cpu then

[pure karma]

yep

[hardy forge]

...I need new cpu or fixable?

Cause im too broke

[pure karma]

probably need a new one

[hardy forge]

Fu.....

[pure karma]

cpu's are liek the one thing that are unrepairable

altho yea thats what windows refers to threads as (logical cores)

so i have 8 cores with 2 threads each and 8 with one thread each that makes 24

cause thats how intels p/e cores work

[hardy forge]

I understand

100% cpu dying, Got it

Ma gonna salvage what i can and sell all the parts

I gotta transfer all ma stuff

Fuuuuu

[pure karma]

i dont get how gpu's are still so bad at decoding and encoding

[glossy glacier]

?

[charred relic]

reasons

[pure karma]

my GPU being able to do Realtime raytracing and all this shebang but not being able to do realtime 1440P video playback most the time is insulting

[glossy glacier]

a 4070 should be more than capable of that.

[languid gulch]

If I were to put a shelf over a top exhaust case, how much vertical clearance should I give it so that I don't choke it off

[pure karma]

ehh like 5CM is enough

[languid gulch]

Really?

[pure karma]

but the shelfs probably gonna catch on fire

[languid gulch]

Lol yea, 4090

I was thinking more like 15cm or more

[pure karma]

generally dont need that much space as long as the fans are strong enough so the air dosent just go straight back in and then create this infintie loop of a fan exhausting and intaking at the same time from both sides

[languid gulch]

Yea true

Plus it's near both a fan and A/C ducting and return

[languid gulch]

ok i just got my cable management tie straps for my desk and they're hilariously powerful

6 neodymium magnets in each

feel like i can swing off one

[glacial zephyr]

I'd say around a foot so ~30cm

Though I like having extra space just to be safe

[safe trench]

unironically my virtual boxes running tpt

[twin dew]

What CPU do you have?

And was the erroring CPU core some (few) specific ones, or all over the place?

As sanity checking and to see if there might be BIOS/UEFI bypass or fix.

[night girder]

These can be handy for cable management 😛

[languid gulch]

it's these on amazon if anyone's interested

pretty sure each one can easily hold 20kg

[hardy forge]

I7 7700

[twin dew]

So if on specific cores, probably just old if you don't have CPU OC.
Raising VCore with offset might help for a while.

[hardy forge]

the log said core 2 logic core 5

soo mainly its one of the smaller cores inside of core 2

[twin dew]

Point was that it wasn't over all the cores in times, but always some small subset.

So it is actually CPU cores being the problem.

[hardy forge]

yes

pc will crash if i even try to transfer files

or play any games

[twin dew]

Then you can try that raising of VCore with 50mV for example in offset mode as bandaid for moment.

[hardy forge]

id rather just salvage the pc
sell everything that works

then use that money to get something good from pc specialist Monthly pays

[twin dew]

That was just bandaid to possibly be able to use the PC until it or the CPU can be replaced.

[hardy forge]

i kinda need a new pc anyway, im doing Game development in college and i will need a deent rig to do the developing

[twin dew]

https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/04/google-searchs-made-up-ai-explanations-for-sayings-no-one-ever-said-explained/

[hardy forge]

?

[twin dew]

Long term LLM stuff.

Not related to your computer, just to conversations over the months on this channel.

[visual tree]

I'm glad companies here haven't started using AI in recruitment

*yet

[twin dew]

*That you know off.

[visual tree]

Probably. Last time I was job searching was in the beggining of 2023 and I am not sure if anyone here used AI at that time

At least companies started using online exams and interviews. Before COVID, I hated wasting my time commuting to the potential employer for an interview or test

Biggest nightmare was almost being late for testing in an oil company. They had an office in a skyscraper and since there were so many people there, I had to wait 15 minutes for an escalator....

[hardy forge]

oh ok ok

[visual tree]

@twin dew This is the most terrifying use of AI I am worried about:

"Yes, we know your superior is satisfied with your performance and you brought value to this company but computer says no...."

Just checked my inbox, PwC was using HireVue when I applied for a job position there

[twin dew]

"This person seems to be unreliable/hiding something based on bad AI facial readings!
So even when he/she was good employee before, we will not hire!"

[visual tree]

Of course, I didn't pass their HireVue "Game based assessment" lol

You know what is HR's biggest fear?

Hiring random candidates because they would have similar performance compared to "carefully selected" candidates

And then the whole HR would be fired

[wanton orchid]

exactly

[wanton orchid]

I don't get why so many hr teams are getting away with the bullshitting

(I had a struggle to remember the phrase "get away with it")

[fallen cradle]

:3

[twin dew]

And the gift just keeps giving...
Another microcode version coming for 13th and 14th gen CPUs to try to fix the stability & overvoltage-damage issues...
https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-Vmin-Shift-Instabilty-Update-New/m-p/1686948

Vmin Shift Instability
Aka CPUs with overvoltage damage from the old boosting microcode...

Trying to bandaid CPUs with damage over the warranty period with that new 0x12F microcode?

[willow pike]

JESUS FUCK

[twin dew]

Un-weazel-corporated: "Upwards shift in minimum VCore the CPU needs, for stable operation at stock settings, because of permanent silicon damage"

[twin dew]

And sorry for the million edits.

[pure karma]

I wasn’t joking when i said the gigabyte defaults were closer to the defaults then the intel defaults

[mental oriole]

tf I just watch?

[languid gulch]

if it's hardware damage, how can software fix it

[charred relic]

Well I just got a wild hair and ordered a new monitor

Nothing fancy but considering my only real monitor is 1080p, no freesync...So doesn't take much to be an upgrade from this

[languid gulch]

yea the jump from 1080 up to 1440 is so nice

i do kinda miss being able to easily land a reticle or my mouse exactly on one pixel

[charred relic]

the question is do i want to go 3 screen or just swap out the old 32" for the new one

I currently use a 32" 1080p monitor and a 50" 4k TV

[languid gulch]

oof

1080p at 32"

my jump was from 32" ultrawide 1080p up to 1440p

i'd say check some out at a store, see what looks good

maybe jumping to a 32 or 34" 1440p & keeping the 4K?

[charred relic]

the 50" 4k is staying no matter what lol

I might move this 32" elsewhere though

either way... new one will be here in 2 days lol

maybe this 32 -> office -> office 27" -> work station

rotating monitors

[safe trench]

what in the skibidi toilet fanfiction edit quality is this 😭

[jagged snow]

I think I'm catching this before most outlets are getting it https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-Prover-V2

Seems like deepseek really has something right

Oh never mind, seems like it's been out since the 30th

I'm behind the times

671b params, MoE with ~38b active per token

[charred relic]

But can it run Minecraft

[jagged snow]

That's a genuinely useful llm tool

Going to be applied to similar sort of things as prolog

[dire igloo]

Yeah, just a bit wonky with its hardcoded pro-regime statements

Ask it about June 4th 1989

[pure karma]

ai bias... no, nerver...

it reminds me of how some languages lack chatGPT data because the people aproving stuff depending on the language were so strict on the aprovals it meant there was insuficient training data

[dire igloo]

Except it's not a bias

It's hardcoded avoidance of certain topics

[pure karma]

aka bias

[dire igloo]

No

Bias is a tendency

This isn't a bias, it's hardcoded

[pure karma]

it wont say shit about its contry of creation but will about others

its all about perspective

[dire igloo]

Having a bias means favoring one thing over another.
This isn't favoring.
DeepSeek generates the response, notices its contents, erases the response and shows you a generic message about how it couldn't give you an answer

It obviously isn't something that originated from training data or how the prompts/outputs are weighted

It's additional behavior hardcoded into the application

[pure karma]

hardcoded bias

[dire igloo]

Then tell me: what's a bias to you?

Where does it begin and where does it end?

[pure karma]

any tampering that only aplies to one side

[dire igloo]

Because for me, a bias is a tendency, nothing more and nothing less.

[dire igloo]

Is there unintentional tampering?

Like you'd see with the dataset bias for example

or prompt bias

Because neither of these counts as tampering to me, in my opinion tampering has to be an intentional act

[pure karma]

i dont see why there couldent be since in the end its still tampering

bias is bias be it intentional or not

[dire igloo]

See message above, I consider "tampering" to be inherently intentional

[pure karma]

its the same thing is a crime is a crime be it intentional or not

[dire igloo]

That's the point I'm trying to get at - you're using a different definition for the word bias.
So something that you consider to be a bias doesn't fall under that same term for me

Bias is a tendency, usually unintentionally.
If you intentionally skew the results, that's manipulation and no longer counts as bias

[dire igloo]

For most criminal legislation, it is clearly defined if there has to be intent for an act to be considered a crime.

You can't unintentionally murder someone, to be convicted or murder there has to be intent

[pure karma]

well that falls into the consiquences not the point im trying to make

the consequences of the bias being intetional or not is a whole other thing

[dire igloo]

As another example, for distribution of stolen goods you have to be aware that they have been illegally obtained - if you buy a stolen TV at a garage sale, you didn't commit a crime

[pure karma]

well you did but the consequence is different

[dire igloo]

wdym consequences?
It's not a consequence that someone hardcoded certain behavior. That's the cause.
The consequence is you not being told about what happened on June 4th 1989

[pure karma]

exactly the consequence is not being able to know about bad parts of history from the party that created it but being able to for all the other ones

[dire igloo]

No, you didn't. That's the whole point.
The crime of "distribution of stolen goods" explicitly requires knowledge about the illegal origin of said goods.

If you don't know they're stolen, you did still buy stolen goods, but you didn't commit the crime associated with it

[pure karma]

its intentional bias of history

[dire igloo]

Either you're mixing your terms or you're using a stupid definition.

The makers of the model are biased in that they inherently favor the Chinese government's opinion on things.
As a consequence of that bias, they manipulated their LLM to not tell you about certain things.
As a consequence of that manipulation, you don't get to hear about certain historic events

And even that first part may not be a bias, it could very well be intentional obedience with Chinese legislators

[pure karma]

wewll then thats where we stop cause i dont feel like arguing over chinesse law and i have to go in 3 minutes

[dire igloo]

I'm not arguing about Chinese law.
I'm arguing about your definition of "bias" and "tampering"

[pure karma]

☝️

[dire igloo]

And if you possessed a deeper level of reading comprehension, you'd notice that I didn't want to argue about Chinese politics there, but make another point about how my understanding of the term "bias" works

[wanton orchid]

it is, it's official, it's simply not marketing material / not spread information

[pure karma]

its a biased manipulation so why are we even doing this trying to outsmart each other type of argument

[dire igloo]

Tampering is an intentional act.
A bias is an unintentional tendency.

A bias can make someone tamper with a system.
However, tampering with a system does not constitute a bias.
Also, any behavior coming from a tampered system as a consequence of that tampering, does not count as a bias.
A flawed system can still be biased however, if that flawed behavior is the consequence of an unintentional change to the system.

Example:
An AI facial recognition system does not recognize black people as humans because its training data didn't include black people.
This is commonly referred to as a dataset bias.
Usually, a dataset bias is the result of an oversight and wasn't intended by the AI engineers.
However, if the training data intentionally excluded black people to produce this exact behavior, this means that it's no longer a system bias but the result of manipulation.

Other example:
An AI company adds hardcoded behavior to their LLM to avoid mentioning a specific topic.
This is an intentional act and any behavior resulting from I don't consider biased - tho for better understandability, it can be beneficial to refer to it as an intended bias.
This does however undermine the degree to which this behavior was caused - it's an intentional act of manipulation to completely eradicate certain behavior, not just tipping the scales.

[pure karma]

Were both right

[dire igloo]

Because you're mixing cause and effect and using terminology that doesn't properly describe what is going on

I'm not trying to outsmart you.
Words have meaning and if we don't have a common understanding of what words mean, we can't communicate properly.

[dire igloo]

How can you be so certain in that assessment?
From what I gathered, we both have mutually exclusive views on how we classify this behavior.
We agree on the behavior and its origins, but we disagree on the terminology.

I find that disagreement only ever has one of three causes (only two if it's a discussion among smart people):

1. Matters of opinion. Taste of food, music preference, aesthetic preference, etc.
2. Different knowledge. You may know something that I don't or vice versa.
3. Unwillingness to re-evaluate one's standpoint upon receiving new information. Doesn't happen among smart people tho

I'm yet to have a definition disagreement with somebody that resulted from personal taste.
Most commonly, it stemmed from a difference in knowledge (like me not knowing that "ignorance" in English simply means not knowing whereas in German the term refers to what English calls willful ignorance)

[dire igloo]

I don't understand what you mean

[wanton orchid]

specifically responding to the message I replied to
it's obedience, there are explicit gov guidelines
it's simply company will not market "we disabled this because we are following guidelines" they will simply not claim anything and talk about something else
because it's not interesting marketing wise anyway

[dire igloo]

Oh yeah, you were actually talking about the contents of my message, not its intended meaning

Makes more sense now.
I agree that it's most likely a result of compliance and not a matter of bias

[wanton orchid]

I never claimed reading the whole conversation

[dire igloo]

Tho bias can't be ruled out. The AI engineers could be huge Winnie the Pooh fans and willingly went above and beyond to appease to the West-Taiwanese government

[wanton orchid]

I meant it's not hidden either that it's compliance

[dire igloo]

Didn't need to, your message just didn't make sense to me (since I did read most of the discussion)

[dire igloo]

Where do they say that?

Besides, if the sole reason was compliance, it would be implemented to the bare minimum

You don't go further than you have to unless you want to

[wanton orchid]

again it's not officially claimed at big media or anything
but you can learn about Chinese software submissions, and process
it's a requirement for some software market

it's like specific procedures or law in medical system
there are lot of stuff and regulations going on
yet you don't directly hear about it when you see doctor
because it's simply a job to deal with it
it's just default

I didn't submit so I don't extensively know the details
but I did hear from people who submitted
it's basically normal there

[dire igloo]

Yeah, I know that the PRC government imposes rules on any software made and/or distributed in their country.
I just don't know if DeepSeek's behavior is entirely attributable to those rules

[wanton orchid]

it probably is
because it's a soft power and economical asset to China
and a social capable system
so it checks scales, spreading, interest, and type of software

[dire igloo]

My point goes more towards how much of that behavior is compliance with legislation as opposed to how much is voluntary influence?

[wanton orchid]

I would say deepseek have both bias and compliance
some specific event names are tracked down for instance with a filter : if it spit it out, it's reviewed and result gets deleted by filter

[dire igloo]

Basically: did they only do as much as they had to or did they do extra because they wanted to?

[wanton orchid]

deepseek was probably trained on "compliant" dataset
so it's then a bias in deepseek itself

[dire igloo]

And from what I've seen, they're going further than I think they have to.
either because they're regime fanboys (eeehhhh) or because they're afraid of hard repercussions (likely imo)

[night girder]

Just refitted laptop battery in the hopes that was the issue. It was not. Time to find new battery.

[wanton orchid]

they have interest in going the gov direction by default
because they are a soft power asset to China

[dire igloo]

The behavior I'm describing isn't dataset bias.
It's a hardcoded correction.

You ask it about June 4th 1989, it begins to write about Tiananmen Square, stops, removes what it wrote, gives pre-defined non-answer

[wanton orchid]

that is what I called explicit filter
which is compliance

[dire igloo]

Are they an "independent" Chinese company or are they part of one of the big corporations (Huawei, Xiaomi, Tencent, etc)?

[wanton orchid]

if you are American your definition of enterprise and corporation especially in relationship with your definition of a gov does not match how it works in China

[night girder]

Also wonder what this space is for.

[dire igloo]

Yup, absolutely - I just don't know if the degree to which they enforce the filter is justified by compliance or if there are additional factors making them go further than they have to (like fanboying or fear)

[twin dew]

SATA drive?
The connector is at top of pic.

But the mounting caddy is missing.

[night girder]

Battery itself seems fine.

[wanton orchid]

the filtering is standard compliance
every game developed in China have it

[night girder]

Not bloated or anything mhm. Smells fine too 😂

[wanton orchid]

and it's the same filter

[night girder]

Oh yeah.

[wanton orchid]

Also it may seems paradoxal but I do expect deepseek dataset to be quiet unbiased actually
Chinese are aware of science on high skill level projects
the filtering is standard compliance (and is standard in itself, as in the filtering code and database is the same as in other stuff)

Chinese gov has shown they know being unscientific is not in their interest

they are simply focused on hard regulation of their population

[night girder]

Baldur, you know what sux? I will not fine battery from MSI itself

And have to deal with this shit

Oh wait. The battery should have model name mhm.

[twin dew]

What region?
Cannot remember, US or EU for you?

[night girder]

Well sorry Baldur. I know you hate amazon. But only viable marketplace that sells battery and ships to my countey.

[twin dew]

https://us-store.msi.com/PC-Components
https://eu-spareparts.msi.com/

[night girder]

I think I looked up serial on msi and saw no spare parts for it.

Let me double check.

[dire igloo]

EU

Not sure if BE of NL tho

[night girder]

Sold out on MSI

[twin dew]

Yeah, they stocked some at the end of production and they are gone.

[night girder]

Yup. Amazon it is then.

Two brands:

• Blesys
• Backupower (which sounds terrible and even is not correct).

Back up ower or Back u power.

Should have been backuppower. I think I go for Blesys 😂

[drowsy coral]

Whats a low priced gpu that runs like 60ish frames on ultra

1080p

[twin dew]

In what game?

[drowsy coral]

Satisfactory

[twin dew]

Then you are in wrong place?

[drowsy coral]

Well i dont think #satisfactory is the right place

[low scaffold]

Hello there fellow Pioneer!
You're currently chatting in off-topic channels.

Please note, the entire off-topic category is reserved for not Satisfactory related chattery. To comply with your FICSIT Inc. contract, please make use of the appropriate channels in the Satisfactory category. Thank you!

Command executed by: baldurfi

[twin dew]

But on short thing, my answer is: Basically anything with at least 10GB of VRAM.

[verbal raft]

RX 6600
AS LONG AS
you dont look at the red forest or titan forest
granted you'd have to drop texture quality a notch
and if you wanna have 60fps in the red forest without FG you need a 7600 XT level

[drowsy coral]

Ok

[twin dew]

8GB cards cannot reliably use Ultra textures without limiter drops.
But again, wrong channel for this.

[verbal raft]

anything 30%+ faster here should get you 60fps without FG and lumen https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6600.c3696
however for 8GB cards you'd have to drop textures a bit

[tribal kraken]

I think it's RAM bath time

[pure karma]

ultra no lummen you can get away with a 6GB card not that its a good idea

[twin dew]

Depends on place etc.
I have had the slowdown on 8GB 6600 without Lumen.

When exploring.

[night girder]

Lithiun ion better than polymer?

[twin dew]

Lithium-ion is the base name.
Lithium-polymer is subvariant with polymerized electrolyte.

[night girder]

There was a polymer battery in it. But I read (quickly) that ion lifespan is better.

[twin dew]

Depends on the exact variant.
And that isn't in either of the names.

Lot of variations of the chemistry.

[night girder]

In the lithium ion vs lithium polymer debate, each has its strengths. Li-ion offers higher energy density and longevity, ideal for smartphones and EVs. Li-polymer provides design flexibility and better performance in extreme conditions, suiting thin devices and wearables. The choice depends on specific needs, with both types continually evolving to meet diverse power requirements.

[twin dew]

And neither of those large namings tell basically anything anymore.

[night girder]

That's what I read.

[twin dew]

Actual variants:
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-205-types-of-lithium-ion

[night girder]

That's the original one.

Clearly stating: Li-Polymer.

[twin dew]

All of the lithium ones are named "Lithium-ion".
And you can make any of them with liquid or polymerized electrolyte.

[night girder]

Read what I posted above you. It's not named Lithium-ion.

[twin dew]

And the point was that that is old and bad generalization.

[night girder]

Old?

[twin dew]

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-206-lithium-polymer-substance-or-hype

[night girder]

Li-polymer offers slightly higher specific energy and can be made thinner than conventional Li-ion

[twin dew]

If someone says battery is "Lithium-Ion" it might be polymer or not.
If they say it is "Lithium-Polymer", it is always that polymerized/gelled electrolyte.
And almost all current lithium-ion batteries are actually polymers AFAIK.

But the actual differences come from those various anode and cathode chemistries etc.

[night girder]

well it's amazon, we can't be sure 🤣

Oh, this is funny. One sec.

[twin dew]

But basically from amazon listings, you cannot usually know anything about the batteries, except maybe the listed specs about Wh etc.

But basically that Wh is the only one that matters.

[night girder]

Mtfcukers 🤣

[twin dew]

And like I said, "Lithium-ion" is the highest common name.
All "Lithium-Polymer" are also "Lithium-Ion"

[night girder]

Yeah, but wait

That's another brand, hence I asked because I noticed the difference.

So they just filled in specs half assed.

[twin dew]

Not really?
Like I said, that -Ion vs -Polymer doesn't really matter to consumer, and all -Polymer are -Ion, but not all -Ion are -Polymer.

[night girder]

If it doesn't matter why put in specs... that makes no sense.

[twin dew]

Volts and Ah don't matter.
Only that Wh.

[night girder]

The whole purpose, of putting things in specs, is so people can compare/look-up etc.

[jagged snow]

*other than for compatibility

[night girder]

Make better choices. If Lithium Ion is the same as Lithium Polymeer, why mention it.

[night girder]

Damn, you read my mind 😄

[jagged snow]

And there are other chemistries out there that are different

[twin dew]

Volts need to be in same range. +-1V or so.

[night girder]

Original is 52.4Wh.

Blessys is 49Wh.

[jagged snow]

Yep
You can't go throwing a 14.8v lipo in a device designed for 7.4 though

4s is less common than 3s but still

[night girder]

well, the cheaper one specs are closer.

But I think they just put in the label ffrom a real battery

[twin dew]

Wh is just the capacity.
How long the battery lasts.

[night girder]

because it looks exactly the same, so not their own label.

[twin dew]

So higher is better.

[drowsy coral]

Thanks!

[night girder]

but that one is exactly the same as real one, so I think it's not real information.

also is 10 euro's cheaper.

huh, ZTHY is US company. Or so they say.

[night girder]

Ordered. Will arrive next week Wednesday.

[dire igloo]

That's the pun

[pure karma]

wet ram

[tribal kraken]

Thinner bath waiting them for heatsink remove. But will test them first. At least that 6000 CL30 kit run at 6200 CL32 no problem with my CPU

[pure karma]

is water cooling ram even worth it

[twin dew]

Depends how much airflow there is in the case.
Which in this case will be miniscule amount as even the radiator isn't in the case.

[night girder]

wait wtf?

[pure karma]

but ram.. dosent get hot 🤷‍♂️

[night girder]

Doesn't it depend on;

1. How hot can the ram sticks get (overclocking).
2. What do the DDR specs say about it, at what point in Celcious RAM becomes unstable.

[twin dew]

Yes it does.

[pure karma]

like unless its in a laptop getting superheated airflow or not its nerver gona go any higher than like 50C

[night girder]

For example, if the sticks only hit 40 degree, but become unstable at 60 degree, it seems pointless.

[twin dew]

IIRC mine top out at 60C or so in normal usage with 1.35V.

For the PMIC temp sensor.

And I have air-cooled system.

[pure karma]

its the same thing as drives iv nerver seen anything higher than like 40C even on my m.2 with no heatsink

[night girder]

That's my point. If you don't hit high temperatures with air cooling, why water cool.

[twin dew]

And that means I cannot use very high refresh interval because of that.

And that system will have much less airflow.

[twin dew]

Because in that water cooled system, there isn't airflow to cool the RAM, like my system has.

[night girder]

If you hit high temperatures with air cooling, I can see watercooling having benefits.

[night girder]

I don't understand what point you are making.

[twin dew]

That the same RAM, with same voltage and settings, would be hotter in Laserkaris system.

Because of less case airflow.

[night girder]

🤔

Doesn't that just mean, it's a bad watercool system for the RAM?

[dire igloo]

1. Have you ever truly loaded your hardware?
2. Overclocking is a thing.

[twin dew]

Point was WITHOUT that kit that is going to be installed.

[night girder]

Ok. Anyway, my point was; if you RAM gets hot (OC) I can see water cooling being a viable path.

[dire igloo]

MAP1602 with no load will be super cool.
E26 at max load will run hot as fuck

[night girder]

Thing is; most users don't get hot ram sticks so aircooling is fine.

[twin dew]

Just needs a very slow fan as alternative.

Reason why people who do RAM OC on open benches have fans pointing at the RAM.

Basically each DDR5 DIMM of mine heats with 6W when at full usage.

Just that the dissapation into air just sucks without any active airflow.

[night girder]

Internet seems to be divided between:

• it's pure for aesthetics and offers 0 benefits performance wise, or for the lifespan of the sticks.

and

• it does help in very specific OC scenarios.

[twin dew]

Helps getting long tREFI.

[pure karma]

talk about ineficiency

im at 0.25W

[night girder]

@twin dew What does this mean? What am I looking at? These are some DDR5 specs I found. Does it mean commercial, DDR5 can go up to 95 Celcius?

[twin dew]

Which is very temperature sensitive.
Default is 3.9/7.8 µs.
In theory that 7.8 µs at low temperatures and then switching to 3.9µs at high temperatures, but at least my board always had it at 3.9µs by default.
I have it currently at 10µs, 15µs was unstable at actual temperatures reached.

[twin dew]

The chips can handle high temperatures, but it affects how tight timings etc. you can do.
Where that refresh interval is the biggest one, but some others can also vary based on chip temperature.

Because it affects leakage currents in the silicon.

[night girder]

Ok, because I keep reading people claiming DDR5 becomes unstable around 50 degrees celcius.

[twin dew]

Only if that tREFI is too high.
Which all OC guides tell you to do.

Setting it to max that it can be set to.

[night girder]

Well if the OC guides tell us to do it, it must be right... right?

But explains it.

[twin dew]

Works fine when the RAM is cool, and then starts to fail as the RAM heats up.

If I set that tREFI to max, the refresh interval would be about 25µs.

[pure karma]

just like me

[twin dew]

So when the spec calls for 3.9µs at higher temperatures (don't remember the spec switchover point, 60-70C?) and 7.8µs below that switchover point, and people just blindly put it to 20-30µs, no wonder stuff breaks down in use when the RAM heats up.

And lower the RAM frequency, longer that interval will be with same max value.

That refresh interval sets how often the DRAM capacitors are rewritten.
So higher the leakage, faster they drain to level where the state will be misinterpreted.
And that leakage rate depends on temperature.

So every X clock cycles, you tell the RAM chips to read all/half/quarter of their memory cells and rewrite the same data back.

Which is controlled by that tREFI.
With the tRFCs setting how long the system gives the RAM chips time to do that before trying to use them again.

If tREFI is too long, some of the data will corrupt as the cell contents weren't readable anymore.
If tRFC that gets used is too short, some of the data didn't have time to get refreshed.

So in my case, RAM speed is at 6000MT/s.
tREFI is at 30000, tRFC is at 480.
So RAM is used for 30000 clock cycles (10µs), and then sent refresh command, which runs for 480 clock cycles, and then RAM is again used for 30000 clock cycles, then refreshed, repeating forever.

By on Auto settings, at same 6000MT/s the values were: tREFI 11677, tRFC 884.

So on default settings at that speed, 7.04% of time was used to refresh the RAM.
With my current tune, 1.57%.
With max tREFI, would be 0.73%.

[night girder]

So every X clock cycles, you tell the RAM chips to read all/half/quarter of their memory cells and rewrite the same data back.

Why does it do this? Rewrite same data back?

[twin dew]

Because like I explained, the DRAM cells are capacitors, and those drain over time from leakage.

And at some point you lose the content, and the cell that leaked too much will always read as 0 or 1, depending if high charge or low charge was 0 or 1.

If high charge is 1, then over time all the RAM would read as 0:s if not refreshed.

That is that D, Dynamic, in the name, that it needs to be actively refreshed.
S, Static, SRAM just needs power.

But needs much more space per bit.

[night girder]

Gotcha.

[twin dew]

Undoped silicon isn't perfect insulator, so there is leakage.

[pure karma]

so your saying to stop silicon from leaking you need to give it drugs? 😆

[twin dew]

And there is major temperature dependancy in that too, causing that behavior.

[twin dew]

No, doping is what we do to get semi-conductors, the active silicon in the die.

Most consumer RAM is as whole DIMM is specced up to 85C at JEDEC.
Mine is Extended Temperature Commercial RAM with that 95C max at JEDEC spec.

[tribal kraken]

If I dont run fan on this 96GB kit, will get errors in RAM test when they get to about 60°C

[twin dew]

Yeah, too tight timings for the higher temperatures.

[tribal kraken]

Chips on both sides, much hotter than single sided sticks

[twin dew]

Which is why I said that "at JEDEC" part.

[twin dew]

What is that tREFI at?

[twin dew]

So at max possible.

Which explains it.

21 µs.

[night girder]

Laserkari, what has you done 😄

[tribal kraken]

_

[twin dew]

Well, options are to cool, or to lower that tREFI.

[night girder]

👆

[tribal kraken]

Yes, with fans at audible speeds (1500 rpm) I can keep them below 40°C with that default 1.4 voltage when gaming.

[twin dew]

Point was that if you used closer to stock tREFI, instead of that maxed one, it would be stable without fan.

At higher temperatures.

[tribal kraken]

Will se what the watercooler can do. I still have CPU VRMs to cool in the case, so need some airfolow

But yes its ok for now, just testing and optimizing for a hobby

[night girder]

All good, have fun

[twin dew]

Same reason I have thought about buying one of these for my RAM, to be able to push to higher tREFI etc.
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/pc-components-accessories/cmyaf/vengeance-airflow-cmyaf

[night girder]

Does it come with RGB?

[twin dew]

That one doesn't.
This one does: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/p/pc-components-accessories/cmdaf2/dominator-airflow-platinum-rgb-fan-cmdaf2

[night girder]

Holy shit. It really does. Crazy.

Didn't know you had specific air cooling for RAM sticks.

Can you replace the fan if it breaks? Or if you want another one?

... no guides.

[twin dew]

No idea about the second one, IIRC in the first one it is standard 40mm(?) fan.

[night girder]

30 MM

no wait.

[twin dew]

Inside that changeable color shroud.

[night girder]

60mm.

It looks if you remove the cover, you can also swap out the fan itself.

[twin dew]

Yup, remembered that from checking if that thingie is ok or not way back when.
But didn't remember the fan size.

[night girder]

Stupid question.

But doesn't it interfere with the rest of the airflow in certain cases?

Because it's blowing towards the camera. And the intake is from right to left (in this picture) and then you also have a top fan it seems probably pulling?

[twin dew]

No, pulling from camera into the RAM, and then exhausting top and bottom basically.

[night girder]

Ah, ofc.

[twin dew]

But of course more height on the RAM etc.
Blocking air coolers.

Like RAM with higher heatspreaders.

[night girder]

I wonder.

[tribal kraken]

I thought about 3D printing a funnel from case top fans. Three 120mm fans focused airflow downwards to the ram area

Exhaust to the side and back for Lian Li O11D

[twin dew]

Or just tune back on that tREFI 😜

[night girder]

Or let Laserkari have fun 😄

[tribal kraken]

Yeha its option too

Lian Li shares CAD models for their cases so it would be easy for me to model

[night girder]

They did say they do it for fun and as a hobby, you should know 😉

[twin dew]

IIRC 45k worked for me fine even at 60C, but toned it down to 30k to have safety margin.

As the actual performance differences start to be so tiny.

[night girder]

You want to print a whole case?

[twin dew]

If with that 30k 1.57% of time is used to refresh, and with 65k it would be 0.73% of time at 6000MT/s.

[tribal kraken]

No just the RAM funnel, but when you have the case model there in CAD software its easy to model on top of that.

[twin dew]

With my tRFC, yours is higher, so higher percentage at each tREFI setting.

[night girder]

Oh like that, yes. smart.

[tribal kraken]

Nice and easy with thinner

[drowsy coral]

whats a good channel to ask how a specific GPU performs in satisfactory (if anyone knows)

specifically rtx 3050 (though it doesnt matter lol)

[languid gulch]

Satisfactory is kinda weird because the more you build in the world, the more cpu/gpu intensive it gets. can be hard to give accurate info on that front

[charred relic]

That's how modded MC can get. Smaller reasonable builds not a problem, huge complex setups start to eat up more and more CPU and memory.

One reason it's helpful for me even if I'm playing solo to just spin up a server for a pack since I have the hardware and multicraft installed

[charred relic]

I'd assume much of the same ideas hold true for a SF map too... since the server is doing the maths and such

[jagged snow]

We have a reccomended cooler to pair with the 7600x?

Just one of the thermalright dual towers?

[charred relic]

Not any one in particular personally for air, quite a few good ones

Just don't recall what's what since I haven't actually shopped for one that I needed in awhile

[jagged snow]

I'm working with a fairly tight budget right now and trying to see what I can squeeze out of it

[charred relic]

Yeah pretty sure on air you can do 60-70USD and get great cooling

and probably a bit less for good cooling

I mean honestly these days with the low wattage even a hyper 212 probably isn't bad STILL

(not suggesting that but they probably do work fairly well still)

[jagged snow]

Heh, yeah

That's what I've got on my build
I don't think I'd be super comfortable with taking it over 80w or so

[charred relic]

I used one on a 3700x and it was fine

I did stick a good noctua on it at one point but even stock it was fine, not great... but ok

yeah that's like 65w

then again so is my current cpu i just upgraded to lol

I went liquid this time (for the first time) for no particular reason heh

[jagged snow]

990 pro our current rec for a gen4 nvme with cache on it?

[charred relic]

Not sure but I have a 4TB 990 EVO Plus that's great

I'd imagine that one is probably a bit faster

[jagged snow]

Sounds good

[charred relic]

Just looked I have 20.5TB written to it... sheesh

[jagged snow]

Just need a 2tb system drive, gen3 or gen4

[charred relic]

I'm thinking about picking up a second one of these if the price ever drops a bit

[jagged snow]

5060ti 16gb the pick for a $500 gpu?

[charred relic]

When I get back into flight simming again that can start to chew through space and it's so much better loading all that from a fast drive

[jagged snow]

I can get a 7800xt if I step up a bit to like 600

[charred relic]

I dunno I always just go over tons of benchmarks, real world mostly

there are always tons of direct comparisons in all sorts of games

[jagged snow]

Yep

Lots of those are crap now

[charred relic]

Some are sure

[jagged snow]

Gonna go see what I can find on youtube

[charred relic]

Tempted to fire up Oblivion... if they do this with Morrowind I'm going to lsoe my mind.

Sadly some of my favorites are so dated there really isn't any way to re-skin them to modernize :/

[jagged snow]

Gosh, I cannot believe how bad the pricing is on radeon 9000

That would be the buy

But I can't even find a 9070 xt on sale and the cheapest 9070 non-xt is 120 over msrp

[charred relic]

I have a 6750 XT, about all I'm missing out on there is not having the latest FSR

[languid gulch]

garbage optimization is currently the biggest issue in gaming, not hardware

[jagged snow]

Its cheaper to just have the consumer throw more hardware at it

[charred relic]

I just noticed ressizable bar wasn't enabled

[languid gulch]

i've found reBAR helps the more the lower end the GPU is

[dire igloo]

1. Why cache? HMB is a thing.
2. What are you doing with the drive?
3. What country are you buying from?
4. Samsung is generally overpriced. Also, 990 Evo Plus is fake Gen5 (Gen5x2 = Gen4x4) and DRAMless

[dire igloo]

What was the Intel Arc issue with that again?
Something about CPUs being too weak to handle it or smth

[twin dew]

Drivers written to expect ReBAR, without any of the optimization for when it isn't available that AMD and Nvidia drivers have.

So the performance loss from not having it is much larger.

Because the driver code for when it isn't available is just unoptimized fallback, not expected to be used code.

[languid gulch]

ARC requires it, radeon & nvidia just have it as a strong suggestion

[twin dew]

The need for more CPU time in general for the drivers is separate issue.

[languid gulch]

activating reBAR on my 6600XT made an instantly noticeable difference

[verbal raft]

@twin dew
is there any chance that 3200mhz DDR4 on a ZEN 2 CPU would be problematic ?

[dire igloo]

Yup, depends on the exact config tho

[twin dew]

Rated only to 2933MT/s.

[dire igloo]

Two mixed kits manually set to 3200 CL10 will be an issue

[twin dew]

For 2000-series multidies.

Or is that 3000-series?

[dire igloo]

Generic 3200cl16 xmp on a single kit can work, depends on CPU and silicon lottery

[twin dew]

3000-series is specced for that 3200MT/s with two DIMMs, but can still be problem if the silicon has degraded.

[verbal raft]

ZEN 2 = 3000 series 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Yeah, it was my bad.

[verbal raft]

thanks for the info : )

[night girder]

RIP skype.

[pure karma]

Rip

[night girder]

Apple photos has some new "AI" functions. That sort things into categories.

One of these is a category called "Receipts" ... and while it does contain 2 receipts. It also did this:

I guess a CPU looks similar to a receipt 😛

[wanton orchid]

it lists amd A6-3600 series obviously

[drowsy coral]

cool receipt!

[jagged snow]

More comfortable with on-drive cache because hmb can be a black box. It's not a full-stop requirement
As I said, gaming and boot drive
I'm buying from the states
And yeah, I've never bought a Samsung nvme before because of that but the pricing seemed right with the rest of the pack

[dire igloo]

Games and boot drive isn't a particularly demanding usecase.
While HMB can be hit or miss, it's perfectly fine for those loads. Higher demand usecases obviously benefit from better implementations - but that's where you're looking at higher end drives anyway.

A rough PCPP filter returns this for 2TB:
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#sort=price&D=1&A=1500000000000,24000000000000

Most of these are junk, tho some are noteworthy:
Fanxiang S660 uses the same configuration as the Lexar NM710 (unless there were part swaps which I'm not aware of).
Teamgroup G50 uses the same config as Klevv C910, equivalent to NM710 but a tad hotter.
The Patriot VP4300 Lite is the lowest cost high-ish end SSD in the filter, tho still DRAMless like the others mentioned above.
For DRAM cache, Teamgroup Cardea A440 is the one I'd pick - while there are less expensive ones, those all use a controller known for causing drive failures. The A440's E18 controller is known to be a hothead tho, so I'd put it under a heatsink.

My recommendation to you is the Teamgroup G50.
Inexpensive and still plenty strong for all your needs.

[jagged snow]

Thanks for the advice

[dire igloo]

$103 for the G50 vs $130 for a 990 Evo

At which point, $133 for a crucial t500 would be my pick, one of the highest end gen4 drives out there (not worth it tho unless you tax it)

Actually, holup, A440 is $130 too, so it's not worth to get that either.
Get T500 if DRAM cache is a necessity

HMB only works over PCIe btw, so if you're using it in a USB or SATA enclosure, you'll be having issues

[jagged snow]

It'll be internal 👍

Thanks for the help

[twin dew]

And even that 990 Evo is HMB.

[jagged snow]

Yeah I was looking at the 990pro, not the evo

[jagged snow]

Current state of the list https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NNQPLc
Let me know if y'all see any room to save on the budget

Also looking for recs on a tenkeyless keyboard and a mouse with 4+ side buttons

Case isn't final, kinda just grabbed something

[tribal kraken]

Maybe $20 more for 6000MT/s memory?

[jagged snow]

I want to, but I'm right at budget limit

Trying to stay under 1600usd for everything

And used prices are terrible rn lol
Gpus are actually cheaper new

[pure karma]

completely unrelated but i just realized i probably dont have a backplate for this aio so thats gonna be fun

[dire igloo]

Epomaker TH80 V1, Keychron V1 Max

[dire igloo]

$20?!?!
There's 6000CL38 Hynix die for just $2 more

[jagged snow]

Missed that, I can probably swing $2 lol

[dire igloo]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HYdHLc

Reworked the list.
Didn't touch GPU and case cuz that's too much cross checking for compatibility

CPU can go for 7600x, no point tho

Ps120se vs pa120se doesn't matter much either, just felt like it's better

[jagged snow]

They were only two dollars apart when I looked and figured I might as well

[pure karma]

are there like custom nuts i could find somewhere with the same threading as a aio block or do i have to make my own backplate for this stupid thing

[dire igloo]

It's about $8 now
Doesn't matter much in terms of performance, especially after enabling PBO.
You do get an extra cooler tho - which is either dead weight clogging your shelves or a nice fallback option should smth break

[jagged snow]

Yup 👌

Awesome, appreciate it

[dire igloo]

Case looks pretty shitty tho, I'd rather go for a Montech Air series one (tbf, air 100 ain't much better)

Air 903 is out of stock sadly

Lancool 216 at $95 is a nice price

Montech Sky Two GX at $79 is neat. Only in white tho

[jagged snow]

Yup, I'll shop around

Thanks again

[dire igloo]

Lian Li A3-mATX at $78 is nice, quite compact too - but look into proper cooling setups

[dire igloo]

yw
Btw, what made you pick 7900xt over 9070?

[jagged snow]

Little fasted in raster, little extra vram, and that specific card was actually cheaper than any 9070 I could find

If stuff was at MSRP I'd spend the extra 50 for a 9070xt

[dire igloo]

Ah wait, nvm
Only sub $700 9070 arrived sometime between end of this month and end of june

Ah, looks like your case limits your options by a bit, compatibility issues

This is if you disable the compatibility filter
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#sort=price&xcx=0&c=547,591,592

9070 is still largely OOS

Anyways, I've already shaved quite a bit off the list by changing the monitor
If you got any more questions, feel free to reach out

[jagged snow]

Will do

[night girder]

TIL that Magnetic North Pole is moving over time. Interesting af.

16KM - 55 KM a year.

[jagged snow]

Every so often the earth flips magnetic north an south

iirc the rate of change for magnetic north has been accelerating and they're predicting another flip because of it

[night girder]

That's what I am watching. Because of the Eternauta netflix show.

They made some "scientific" claims in there and I was like; "euh hold-up, I smell bullshit" so now I refreshing my memory.

It is cool that the show uses Van Allen radiation belts as a plot device 😄

Then again, the show is bases on a comic from 1980, when science fiction was rooted in ... well real science.

[night girder]

Also interesting, that the flipping of the poles isn't an issue. It's the process of the poles flipping that screws us.

During the process, there is a probability that earths magnetic shield would have 10% of it's power. Leading to the Van Allen Radiation belts to collapse.
And earth being hit with shitton of radiation. Our satelites will be screwed. Solar storms can knock out power etc.

[jagged snow]

Yup, it's really interesting stuff

[night girder]

But once the poles are flipped, all is good 👍

Also interesting that science is still figuring out what exactly creates a planets magnetic field.

They have a direction; earths core. But there are other factors in play they haven't fully figured out.

[pure karma]

science is a nerver ending cycle

[dire igloo]

I love 80s science fiction cuz their "random date far in the future" will come before I'm in my 30s

[night girder]

Computer simulation of the process of a reversal.

[dire igloo]

Let's also not forget that most navigation still relies on the magnetic field acting like we're used to

[night girder]

A lot of infighting of fields. Multiple poles. Good stuff.

[glacial zephyr]

Funny enough the north pole is actually the south magnetic pole of the earth

[pure karma]

was that on purpose in any way or is that just how it turned out and no one bothered to change it?

[willow pike]

south attracts north, so that's what the north pole of magnets are attracted to

[pure karma]

so it is indeed for compasses and navigation equipment and more

[charred relic]

GPS uses true north not magnetic though so... it's absolutely not required lol

[glossy glacier]

basically second half of this?
https://youtu.be/HSRmfNDk87s

[charred relic]

yeah... they tell you the direction the runway is

Planes might be the most effected by a shift but ehhh they don't stricly need a magnetic north either

Kinda like how there was never any part of the avionoics that gave a shit about what year it was heh... but people were convinced planes would fall out of the sky during the y2k nonsense

GPS can tell a plane what direction it's going and/or they can fly from VOR station to VOR station like they typically would be doing anyhows

Also Canada is both right... and wrong. Planes should rely as little as possible on magnetic orientations but they'll never convince the rest of the industry to go along with it. Those guys tend to get really set in their ways of doing shit.

Also it'd need to be all or nothing, having every airport potentially be different is just a giant safety issue.

[tribal kraken]

Ram watercooler dry installed

Bit of luck on clearance to GPU 😅

[charred relic]

how dare you dry install you filthy tease

😄

[tribal kraken]

I sometimes use silicon on The o-rings, but usually just the water from spills

Dry install meaning not filled the coolant yet

[night girder]

your case will be just tubes everywhere lol

[tribal kraken]

GPU and RAM are now in series in the loop, and CPU parallel to them. Added ball valve between the tank and RAM so I can choke the flowe there to force more into CPU if needed. As the CPU block is much more restricted and water just wants to go easiest path thru the GPU otherwise

[charred relic]

He's more coolant than computer now, twisted and drippy.

[tribal kraken]

Some of them could be shorter for looks but now can just turn the GPU to side if need to access m.2 slots

[night girder]

yeah, it's a cool PC now

[night girder]

Is this the final layout?

[tribal kraken]

Should be.

[night girder]

Most watercool systems I've seen so far go for straight pipes.

Does that have any drawbacks?

[tribal kraken]

Hard line only advantage is looks. And that's what most people post pics of. I admit they look good

This Saint Cobain Tygon soft tubing is really nice and resists UV for years. Even it's in sunlight, it stays nice and flexible like 10 years

And not really any debris

[night girder]

expensive/cheap compared to other tubings?

[tribal kraken]

Little more than "normal" EPDM in this size but under 10€/meter

Inner diameter 10mm and outer 16mm

But now to fill it and run leak test with powering only the pump

[night girder]

have fun 🙂

[tribal kraken]

Looks like they work really well. SPD temps down from 55-60°C to just 32°C under the Karhu tester, which is just 2° above the water temp in the loop. Will leave it running overnight. tREFI at 65535 and voltage 1.43

[pure karma]

thats crazy

meanwhile im overhere contemplating if i should make a joke that my computer just gave birth since my new case just got here and it quite literally looks the exact same just smaller

[cyan crescent]

I cant seem to install the vive wireless software

[charred relic]

Waiting on Amazon delivery... the good stuff always comes late

[pure karma]

my case arived 2 days early so i guess im on quite the oposite statement of that

[charred relic]

i bet it

it's delayed... at least my replacement mouse came. The other one the left button was "crunchy"

[charred relic]

plus the keeebs come tomorrow too so, bonus

[languid gulch]

i'm just glad i don't really have anything overly important on my purchase list, because we're gonna be screwed for at least the next year

[charred relic]

yeah im down to just wants, nothing i gotta have now

[boreal sable]

how do i tell if i have a virus (im schizing)

[safe trench]

use windows defender

istg its so cracked at its job

and open up task manager and see if anythings putting abnormal strain on your gpu

[dire igloo]

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails?ItemList=Combo.4777671

Paste is shit, board and case are mediocre, but great deal

[jagged snow]

Yeah, wow

Thanks for pointing that out

[dire igloo]

yw

[charred relic]

the combo deals + being local(ish) is what gets me into microcenter when i am doing a build

and their prices are as good as anywhere else

[dire igloo]

With one asterisk:
You may find less expensive but otherwise equally good alternatives elsewhere

Example:
They'll price match the Lancool 216 to $96 making it as good of a pick as buying online, but they likely won't have a Sky Two GX at all

[charred relic]

good thing im not picky about stuff 😄

[dire igloo]

If that's the case, Microcenter shouldn't be your "one place for everything" choice

cuz if you're not picky, then there's nothing speaking against the better alternatives elsewhere

Microcenter doesn't have all the products available that you can get online.
So while you can still get decent deals there, often times you can save money or have better parts by buying some stuff online

[charred relic]

except for this built i literally did it both ways and would have saved nothing

so....there's that

[twin dew]

And the quality and ease of warranty is often worth little extra costs for example.

[charred relic]

the parts would not have been any better or worse just different

Amazon is easy enough to return to but if it's something I need replaced in the now rather than in 2 days it's a problem

[twin dew]

And how about 3+ months later for RMA?

[charred relic]

In the case of monitors they didn't have what suited my budged and spec requirements in as low of a price range as on Amazon but I also caught what I got on sale

After the amazon return period it's all on you lol

[twin dew]

And AFAIK Microcenter is about the best actual warranty experience in US you can get.

[charred relic]

Haven't needed to use it... yet

They carry Keychron, but they don't stock the one I wanted. I'd have gone up there for that.

They have a pretty nice maker area as well with many things that interested me

[languid gulch]

with windows 11, is there a way to customize how big your Explorer "view" options are?

like make the extra large tiles just a bit smaller, but bigger than the large tiles?

[pure karma]

explorer? really?

ooohh wait probably file explorer?

in that case no i dont think there is a gui based way to modify the regular tile presets no

[boreal sable]

this...?

[twin dew]

That is just the firewall portion.
That Windows Security is the overall control to both the antivirus part, firewall part and other parts.

[boreal sable]

wait so whats windows defender

:(

[willow pike]

it used to be called windows defender and it's been renamed a bunch of times

the built in antivirus windows has

if you're paranoid you have a virus, you can use malwarebytes to do a scan; it's the only antivirus worth a damn

other than the built in windows one that is

www.malwarebytes.com

[twin dew]

Yes, just renames.
Originally there was just Windows Firewall.
Then MS intruduced Windows Defender Antivirus.
Then they renamed Windows Firewall to Windows Defender Firewall.
Then they intruduced Windows Defender overall app to control both and there isn't anymore separate Windows Defender Antivirus, but the Windows Defender Firewall wasn't fully integrated, and was kept largely separate.
Then they renamed that combined app to Windows Security.
And so now you have Windows Security with Virus & thread protection inside it.
And Windows Defender Firewall.

But most people still use the name "Windows Defender" for the antivirus, even when that name was last used in Win8.1 IIRC?

Or possibly early Win10.

[boreal sable]

does it cost money?

[willow pike]

there's a free version

it will try to upsell you but just ignore it

the free version will scan your pc when you tell it to, the paid version will scan in real time; just get the free version, do a full scan, then exit it

then do that again the next time you feel paranoid you might have a virus, just to reassure yourself

[boreal sable]

okay okay but i already have norton 😭

im jujst very paranoid cos i had a virus befor and had to resinstall windows

[night girder]

And I was about to say; whatever you do, don't get Norton

but since that genie is out of the bottle, scan your PC with Norton.

[boreal sable]

i goggled best free anti viruses one time and uh it siad norton as one of them so i downloaded it ( was not free but i had moneys )

[willow pike]

norton bad

do not pay for it, uninstall it, cancel your subscription

[night girder]

Had to work with a Norton laptop this week. Shit was driving me nuts.

Booted the thing up, was unresponsive for 5 minuts. I was like wtf. Turned out Norton was doing some background tasks.

Like "you can get 10% free disk space by removing this stuff". I was like, why is an anti virus doing this? It's so bloated.

[twin dew]

Yeah, McAfee, Norton, etc. old names are more like malware and help at this point.

[night girder]

So many pop-ups, and you pay for it with a shady subscription.

Anyone experience with this channel? https://www.youtube.com/@pcsecuritychannel/videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJmaYaNi6ZU

[twin dew]

If that is what I remember, where he runs thousands of exes at same time, bad testing.

[night girder]

video is 3 weeks old.

[twin dew]

Point was the test methology he uses.

Where he wants the antivirus to be completely blocking and make the system not work until all those exes have been processed.
But which just makes it easy for him to run them all.

[night girder]

He runs viruses and see what's detected.

Wait.

[twin dew]

No, Windows Defender isn't perfect.
And in that specific case, it doesn't block the stuff until little later, as it doesn't block the OS.

[night girder]

He doesn't run viruses. They are just on his system.

And then he scans.

[twin dew]

One is that, tons of samples to see if non-realtime scan detects stuff.
Then another test he does is running all of them at once.
To see if anything gets chance to install.

[night girder]

and the whole video is about anime girl beating million dollar company anti virus

[twin dew]

And even if the antivirus detects that install later, it is bad for him.
Where he does that "all at once", where Defender has been coded to not freeze the OS, what he seems to want.

[night girder]

I don't see the "all at once" you keep talking about.

[twin dew]

Might be different channel.
Didn't even open.

[night girder]

You download a bunch of viruses. Put em in a folder. Run anti virus and see what it detects.

[night girder]

Yeah, ok I am out then.

[twin dew]

Yeah, different channel.

Still very limited testing if just does that scan of folder.
Depending on which form the stuff is in the folder.

[night girder]

just watch vid man

or don't but then don't have an opinion about said video 🤣

Towards the end; microsoft has signature for threats, but just fails to block execution.

But it's not surprise to me, no anti virus is 100%.

[twin dew]

So yeah, running everything?

[night girder]

NO!

[twin dew]

Yes he is.
He used script to run each exe.

[night girder]

That's not running everything. That's running one by one.

That's not the same as everything at once

[boreal sable]

idk how i managed to lose 20 gb without donwloading anyhting ( i checked steam i checked epic games

[night girder]

You run virus, see if it gets detected. Move on to next one.

A user would download some shady file, try to execute it because it wants free satisfactory.

This just tests what would happen.

But as a tester, you don't want to manually run viruses one by one. You automate.

You could argue it would be cleaner to;

1. Setup test environment.
2. Execute one virus.
3. See if it's blocked or not.
4. Clean up testing environment and reset it.

Or if you want to go further, new test environment = clean OS (virtual) installation.

[twin dew]

Lot of the stuff was blocked, just later in the process.
And that at that point the next things were already started messed stuff up.
And because the system ground to a halt processing the stuff, he restarted and didn't let it continue and finish.
And after the restart, you keep seeing on bottom left that new pop-ups keep coming.
And that the stuff he says is bad is still on that network drive, and by default Defender is set to NOT scan network drives except on execute from them for the specific thing.

[night girder]

He restarted bnecause it got infected.

Because windows defender failed to block a virus.

[twin dew]

So in the scan with Hitman, he had ONE temp file.

[night girder]

And the virus was spreading over his system.

[twin dew]

So no, there wasn't infection in the Hitman results.

[night girder]

Running a virus scanner + a virus spreading over your system sounds like bad performance.

[twin dew]

All the stuff on the Z:\ isn't being touched by Defender, as they are on network file system, and not being used.

[night girder]

This is the point the system got infected.

Just incase anybody wonders at what point it got infected.

[twin dew]

Something got to run to give picture.
Didn't run to infect.

Or that Hitman would have supposedly found the infection.

[night girder]

Right before it crashes. You can still see virus in background.

[twin dew]

Lot of stuff can get picture, without infecting.
Both of those are showing mostly crap, as they GOT BLOCKED once executing, before infecting.

[night girder]

no?

It started to duplicate the shit out of itself. How do you call that blocked.

[twin dew]

Size 0.

[night girder]

Doesn't mean jack shit.

It's duplicating itself. I wouldn't fucking trust a 0KB Unicorn file like that.

If it was blocked. It wouldn't be duplicating at all. That's containment.

[twin dew]

And if that just ONE of the possible things he tested.
Every antivirus lets some things through.
Basically very badly done test, with reset in progress without letting things finish, and very bad interpretation afterwards.
And no test to see what happens when running that specific one that "got through".
Or seeing with that Hitman if it was detected on that Z:\ or not.ö

So the alternative he used, only detected ONE temp file in completely different place.

And he then goes to market for alternative program he is paid for.

[night girder]

Baldur... my friend.

It's a sponsor. What did you expect?

Every YT channel sneaks in sponsors these days 🤷‍♂️

Doesn't mean it's a bad video.

[twin dew]

And person testing antiviruses, badly, then doing lot of scaremongering, then marketing another solution he has financial interest in...

Makes the whole video useless.

[night girder]

he doesn't do any scaremongering at all 🤣

[wanton orchid]

I don't get why you focus on the reset thing
are you implying a user does not hit restart button when they see shit going on on their pc ?
seems like what you call bad test is pretty close to practical to me

[night girder]

or not that it works on me.

Must be watching a different video. Because that's scaremongering.

[twin dew]

Yeah, he reset, and in the end nothing had actually got through.
But he still then spent 2/3rds of the video scaremongering about the specific set of files on network drive, that isn't even scanned by the product being tested.

Most which had been opened, and then not written to, as the Antivirus HAD BLOCKED the active write.

[wanton orchid]

it's a not a user job to know what's scanned or not

[twin dew]

When it detected that the write would have contained malware.

[night girder]

He literal says Microsoft does a decent job.

He also states taht Microsoft does detect most of the stuff, but sometimes seems to fail to fully block it.

How is that scaremongering?

[twin dew]

And that last is same for ALL antivirus products on the market.

[wanton orchid]

tbh I'm not thinking their test is the best or anything
but I do think it's practical and relevant
I don't know of test that are fully functional, or it would need targeted analysis on a single mal ware

[twin dew]

And he uses excessive amount of time on the scaremongering part about "something getting through" and not actually getting through.

[night girder]

I think we both have very different interpretations of this YT video.

While you see "fear mongering and bad testing", I see a more neutral approach.

And someone willing to show, that Microsoft Defender isn't bad in 2025, but not perfect either. With a simple test.

They even admit there are false positives.

And sure, they sneak in their sponsor at the end of the video. But it's stated in description it's a sponsor.

[wanton orchid]

I don't get you're approach Baldur
being too specific is the fall of most of these kind of testing
they are not doing this error
they are staying very practical with simple tests

[night girder]

So that doesn't harm the video credebility to me. Because if it did.

I cannot trust any YT channel anymore.

[night girder]

Yeah, my interpretation too. I think they just want to raise awareness without going to technical.

[wanton orchid]

most malware don't need permanent write access to be problematic
the most relevant analysis would be network wise

[night girder]

Also, he even tells us he is going to use the sponsor.

So that's in 2 places we are informed it's a sponsor.

[wanton orchid]

Also this channel usually have sponsor related to data access and statistics, I only rarely saw them sponsor straight anti-virus solutions

[twin dew]

Yes, it is informed, still makes the whole thing very suspect.

[night girder]

So all of GN videos about Lian LI are now biased. And discredited?

Because it's a sponsor, at one point 🤷‍♂️ And this also leads us to automatically question GN's testing methods? What kind of logic is this ...

[twin dew]

Point is, after the restart, he does very limited check, that actually finds nothing, and then spends most of the rest of the video talking about the "files" on the Z:\, even when at least most were blocked.

My basic take: He has no idea how to test antivirus or interpret the results.

Well, basic idea on testing, but not the checking after.

[wanton orchid]

I do agree they do very shallow checking

this at least keeps it from misleading on checking methodology

[night girder]

After reset:

• Runs hitman pro to detect.
• You can see Windows defender still flagging stuff.
• He shows that the files duplicated, a ton of unicorns and a update application.
• He then uploads the update to virustotal.
• Microsoft detects update application on VirusTotal, so he wonders why MS didn't block it on system, but does detect on VirustTotal.
• There is a malicious temp file (Virus Total).
• He then digs into the unicorn files to see what it does.
• Then he just analyzes everything that happened.

At the end he uses the sponsor.

[twin dew]

And that HitmanPro doesn't find anything?

[night girder]

It does? Did you watch video?

[wanton orchid]

there are hundreds if not thousands things to check actually
so they are keeping it user practical
and show results from other scanners

[twin dew]

And he never checks the Temp folder file with VirusTolal, only couple of the files on the Z:\

[night girder]

Sorry for bad resolution, YT nuked my quality suddenly.

[twin dew]

Yes, one temp file.
Which probably got deployed by benign first stage, and then blocked.

Again, very bad interpretation of the HitmanPro result.

[wanton orchid]

Man the file got flagged by db
why would it not be quarantine straight away ?

[dire igloo]

If I may ask: How did you catch the virus?

[twin dew]

And he never checked what the Defenders own logs etc. said about that file for example.

Basically that file that HitmanPro detected seems to have nothing to do with the Unicorn files and the other stuff on that Z:\ he then checks with virustotals.

And if that file got deployed to temp, and then prevented from being used, that was a block by Windows Defender.

[night girder]

Holy shit, PC just crashed again.

I don't think it was the CPU after all... sjiiiiit.

Fuck it. So sick and tired of this system I give up trying to get it 100% stable.

In 3-4 years, I will build a new system and hopefully have something more stable.