off-topic-tech

[night girder]

That's not enough evidence in my opinion. And the court will rule the same. Only, there will be no court.

Now, like I said. If they have videos of the ship leaving port with an intact anchor. And now the anchor is all damaged. And/or they have video/proof of the ocean floor that shows marking of an anchor dragged. That's a start.

Then you have to proof intent. They can still claim weather or malfunction or whatever.

[twin dew]

And in that specific case, the ship lost the anchor and it was at the site of the second cut stuff.

And the ship arrived at Russian port without one of the anchors.

No, there aren't AFAIK public photos of tens of kilometers of drag marks, but that was officially talked by the investigators.

And that it was raised for the mean time after the first one, before being dropped again for the second.

[night girder]

Also, I don't believe this sort of information is public. The routes of sea cables and pipes?

[twin dew]

The NewNew Polar Bear case.

[night girder]

So ... either they didn't know there were cables. But why lower you anchor, then raise it, then lower it again, to then raise it again.

Or ... they got the information somehow. And then it's with clear intent.

It seems there are public databases out there.

[twin dew]

When Russia has been mapping all of that stuff around western countries for since they were soviets?

[night girder]

No?

We do it ourselves:

That's the european gas network from 2015.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but point was, even if there wasn't any public data, Russians have been making their own accurate maps for all that stuff for forever.

[night girder]

There is just too much information out in public, why invest in spies? Just google.

[twin dew]

Latest case where actual action was taken:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/16/russian-spy-ship-escorted-away-from-internet-cables-in-irish-sea

[safe trench]

ok no one iss having a topic so far

so now i have a time to boost my ego and begin talking good about intel arc

new leak about image intel ai image generator playground creation:

[gilded helm]

Battlemage sounds totally underwhelming for a 2025 product. 😬

It can get to decent if the software and drivers have no major issues.

Is there die size info? Based on Intel's claims, HUB is projecting 7600 XT performance, but I'd guess Intel is competing with last gen performance while paying for current gen manufacturing.

[winged valley]

You have to start somewhere, I'll be impressed if it can keep up with its generational target

[gilded helm]

Pat's gone, if Celestial can't be competitive per square millimeter of silicon on a cost basis, I think Intel dGPUs are dead.

This is not the same Intel we remember. They are past the point where they can keep throwing money at this.

[night girder]

I don't think it can get far worse for Intel besides going bankrupt.

[soft bloom]

talking about city planning ... #1313520108550754468 message
here's example from my city

15 km straight one, with just a couple street lights, traffic mostly joins with intersections. source of huge morning jams (especially that joint with river's coast)
Expo center very close to it, underground (metro) going in parallel ending in the largest market

i think someone once told me this is the longest straight road section in Europe? not sure, but still, looks pretty cool

this is outside city limits.
pretty depressing to ride, actually. the only thing keeping from boredom is a bunch of hills that obstruct the view.
afair only one of them is cut-through slightly, so it just goes up and down and up and ... but really slowly. kinda like those half-abandoned roads in US countryside

^ although this is a pretty old trade route going to west

[night girder]

You watched latest GN video on the subject?

[gilded helm]

Yep

[night girder]

and no die size info?

[gilded helm]

Not yet. I suspect review guidelines might forbid that, it'll probably be in follow on content.

Techpowerup claims 408mm, but they also claim TSMC N6?
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/arc-b580.c4244

Tom P is on the PC World podcast, that info might be in there somewhere.

[night girder]

So, the same die size as before. 406 mm² (A580)

[gilded helm]

HUB extrapolations put this as a 7600 XT 12GB, basically. But the 7600 XT is 204mm N6. If the B580 is really 408mm N6, that's really bad.

[night girder]

No, you misread that.

IF the information in the screenshot is correct, it's also 406 mm² for the B580.

[gilded helm]

I have no idea how Techpowerup is getting their info, though.

[night girder]

Me neither, so I am not sure. I guess we have to wait.

[gilded helm]

It's entirely possible Intel got a great deal on N6 now that others are moving to leading edge, who knows. For Intel's sake, I hope something like that is true.

[night girder]

Do you agree with GN closing statement? That Intel will take market share from AMD because it lacks in raytracing?

And that Intel has an advantage in raytracing over AMD?

[gilded helm]

In this product segment I don't think raytracing is going to matter.

[night girder]

Because I am not sure if I fully agree with him.

That AMD needs to step it up because of Intel.

[gilded helm]

I don't think AMD is going to adjust a thing because of Intel.

[night girder]

I hope they keep improving ofc. But that's more because of the Nvidia competition I believe.

[gilded helm]

I remember 2021 when everyone was pumped for Intel. We all definitely still hope, but I don't have optimism at this point. They should have stuck with OEM only products until they were ready.

[night girder]

And with the recent events ...

[gilded helm]

And now that Pat's gone, their next CEO isn't going to make consumer GPU a pet project.

[night girder]

That's going to slow things a bit.

[gilded helm]

There's press from today claiming N5 family

I'm relying on translation, but here's a claim of 272mm N5

www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/news/hardware/grafikkarten/65024-intel-arc-b580-preisattraktive-grafikkarte-für-das-1440p-gaming-vorgestellt.html

[maiden coyote]

In the high end... nivida is in a league of their own

So when you're looking at either the high-end amd or intel card, I think he's probably right

Like the top tier amd card is good for gaming, but when you start involving rt performance for either games or ai shit, there is no competition, and nivida could ask for 5 grand for the 5090 and it'll still sell like hotcakes

I mean nivida already has a 20 grand gpu..

Maybe intel will be ready for prime time and I can replace my 2080 ti this gen

[gilded helm]

ADA 104 is 294mm of N5. In theory the B580 should be closer to the 4070 Ti if the Hardwareluxx numbers are true.

[winged valley]

Not a gpu

[maiden coyote]

Depends how you want to define it.. if it outputs video? No..

[winged valley]

Aren't the rtx cards of today more focused on ai rather than gpu compute

rtx as in datacenter

[maiden coyote]

The a800 is a datacenter gpgpu card without video outputs. It's an ampere core hulked up with hbm.. I'm sure plenty of rtx 4090's have found their way into datacenters too

[willow pike]

amd are also going datacenter first

UDNA exists because they got a taste of that AI money

[stray badger]

AI is gpu compute

[tough owl]

I still haven’t found a good 6+ core laptop I like yet

[stray badger]

what happened to the p53?

zbook studio seems nice. If you don't need GPU i highly recommend a used elitebook 845 (you can get a g9 or g10 with rdna igpu now)

[tough owl]

its got a dead board

it straight up wont post

[stray badger]

damn

i hope you got ur moneys back

[tough owl]

i made sure the seller accepts returns before buying

[stray badger]

ah smort

[tough owl]

I might just buy another t480

[stray badger]

maybe, i think the elitebook may be better tho (8 core ryzen 7 with 780m graphics and all)

[tough owl]

I just dont like hp :/

[stray badger]

their business stuff is pretty nice

upgradable ram, storage, battery

[tough owl]

which elitebook is it?

[stray badger]

845 g9/10

i have a g7

[stray badger]

it doesn't have ethernet tho, only thing annoying about it

[stray badger]

yup

[tough owl]

oof

[stray badger]

whats the oof?

[stray badger]

ah yeah

someone dropped it

[stray badger]

noice

[tough owl]

im stumped

[stray badger]

?

[tough owl]

I kinda like the mobile workstation aspect of the thinkpad but I also want powerful thin and light

[stray badger]

hp has been moving in on that. Lenovo has some in their newer ones, but those cost more and also they got rid of upgradable ram

[tough owl]

I might just buy a dell

[stray badger]

yeah

[tough owl]

dell precision

though some of them share xps chassis

[stray badger]

the old dell 7000 series has upgradable GPU

aint nothin this or light about them tho

[tough owl]

which old dell?

[past agate]

W8 tile desktop was indeed cancer @still briar 🤣

[tough owl]

I could just buy an alienware r51 or whatever it was

[still briar]

Which makes snese that they built an entire OS around it, because netbooks and touchpads were the FUTTTURRREEE

[past agate]

@still briar @past sand Either of you use the quake mode terminal?

wt -w _quake
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/456109329456562187/1313735652545662976/image.png?ex=6751372b&is=674fe5ab&hm=81e8301d5878ac4c229e89b56a8496bfa6bbbc7e3405152caa7463ff8b0cebf1&

[still briar]

Can't say I have; I tried to leave Windows as vanilla as possible after XP

[past agate]

It's simply a fun alt-mode to terminal that you launch it with that flag and you can bring the terminal up and down with Win+tilde then

[still briar]

Well that isn't entirely true... I took it through a few rounds of OS hardening a bricked it more than once

[past agate]

Like you can a developer console in games

[still briar]

Its amazing how many core services they tied to Edge and Cortana

Now I just isolate my gaming machine and use Deb as my daily driver

[past agate]

I do find it a little ironic that most people are unwilling to spend time tuning Windows to their liking, but will spend hours and hours tuning Linux. Granted, I do understand there is a difference between tuning from "bad to good" vs "basic to advanced" with Linux. But it's still time tuning the OS in either case.

[still briar]

Having worked with the GUI for "tuning" Windows, I understand the frustration.

Is it on? does On mean disabled? or enabled? Does Disabled mean not enabled?

The individual keys for the MMC are obtuse, contradictory, and often times do not work at all depending on your license.

The only way to know for sure is to audit the policy and that requires 3rd party software or a domain controller... nothing about Windows is concrete.

What does "not configured" default to? Do I need to configure every policy to a bool to avoid the confusion?

@past agate W11 certainly hasn't made this any better

lol a perfect example of this: I hardened my OS by requiring FIPS 140-2 encryption and could no longer play an MMO because that game service did not use an adequate encryption scheme to establish a connection. Fault was theirs in my book, but because it isn't standard I either had to reconfigure or just not play

[rapid ether]

Even as "just a normal user" I'm fed up with configuring things in Windows (still on 10). There are now 4 or even 5 different UIs for configuring things. None of them have the full set of options, so you have to search through all those variants of control panel, config assistants, configuration apps notification area icons etc. etc. etc.
Soundcard settings is one example or keyboard languages.
I have to use Windows because of Photoshop and Lightroom, most games and video on demand streaming, bluray

Anything coding and devops I do with native linux (I make most my PCs and Laptops dual boot) or at least WLS2 (programs running in WSL, even UI ones with an xserver on windows) - work laptop is also linux.

And then there is troubleshooting - you search for the problem you have and the first 100 hits are some ad-plastered SEO-bullshit pages that stole their content from stack-overflow or somebody's blog and are covering some generic beginners issues not even near your problem - and that is hidden well on page 16 of their "5 easy steps" where they then try to sell you some software.

[twin dew]

GN had that same die size number:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1fEpWy9B0c

And the source was Intel

[gilded helm]

I've since found it on other outlets as well. Unless it comes out that Intel got some great deal on some low cost version of the N5 family, this is going to look really really bad to the bean counters who forced out Pat. 4060 Ti is 70% the size with less VRAM too, but seemingly manages to outperform the projected B580 performance. Unless Intel under sold it? But how often does that happen with first-party benchmarks?

[twin dew]

TSMC N5 for Battlemage, some TSMC for Alchemist.

Which is why Gelsinger badmouthing TSMC few years ago and making TSMC scrap 40% discount really hurt :D

In some interview while the negotiations were ongoing.

Nah, mostly ok, but badmouthing "competitor" in interview, while negotiating wafer contract was just stupid.

Nothing Gelsinger put in has yet really be seen.

As the delays are at 3-5 years.

[night girder]

where in video do you see die size?

[twin dew]

Said, not shown.

During the die diagram

https://youtu.be/v1fEpWy9B0c?t=376

And earlier it was said that all that info came from Intel PR event.

[pure karma]

no because no one will buy it and this whole thing just feels like a waste of time

on another note

maybe im tripping but the new ARC cards actually seem fairly good

reaalistically only the big boys like apple and nvidia but why would they get involved

i could maybe see aple trying to go in for a snipe but i wouldent see themmoutright buying it because i doubt they would want to deal with the problems

is safari chromium based? i dont remember but if so then yea safari is basically only search so i dont see why not

[verbal raft]

I cant belive

[pure karma]

if you want the truth if chrome were to disappear it would be split probably across firefox and as much as i hate to say it opera gx

i have unironically seen opera gx used more and more

im the only firefox user that i know of in my school

everyone is is edging, went with chrome because it was preinstalled or is on opera gx

yea it is

yea i did notice adblock has practically permenently broke on chrome

yea i use google search on firefox aswell

[wanton orchid]

I hate chrome

[edgy hazel]

SpongeBob was right

In the future everything is chrome

https://tenor.com/view/future-squidward-spongebob-gif-4767609

[night girder]

pause updates for 5 weeks

[verbal raft]

recall only works on "AI/COPILOT" stuff right?

[night girder]

recall, should be opt in.

And you should be able to delete it fully. Promised by MS.

[verbal raft]

but does it NEED specific hardware?

(NPU)

[night girder]

copilot needs specific hardware

NPU that can output at least 40 TOPS of power, along with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD storage, and 8 logical processors.

[verbal raft]

SSHHHIIISSSS

[night girder]

but I don't think recall is in 24H2

support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-11-version-24h2-update-history-0929c747-1815-4543-8461-0160d16f15e5

Yeah, recall is still in testing phase.

And that testing phase seems necessary.

[wanton orchid]

make sense
so they can claim it's secure
even though a bit of social engineering and that's all gone
and Microsoft still have unrestricted full access to it anytime

the AI shit is simply a way to run an optimized 40tops hardware to statistically pre process and compress your stuff before sending it to Microsoft servers

with legal monkeys thinking it's not just compression and mining of personal information

[night girder]

Then why biometric sign in as requirement? When users are concerned about privacy.

[pure karma]

mine is asking to download a whole new unsupported bios so it can update 🤣

[verbal raft]

🤣 😂👀💀☠️👻

[night girder]

You know you don't have to download that update instantly.

[mental oriole]

Ahh the system requirements for a resource hog... Idk why anyone want that enabled.

[wanton orchid]

reread start of my last message

[soft bloom]

actually that is sadly common practice - make user go through more steps to create illusion of secutiry even though it's actually useless

[night girder]

What I was getting at, that I find it weird they want biometric sign in option enabled for Recall. A feature that takes full snapshots of your system, including your biometric data?

[twin dew]

In most implementations of that Windows Hello, the data doesn't leave the fingerprint scanner or camera.
Just because the other options would be PIN-code or password, and expectation is that most people would have even worse security with those.

[glossy glacier]

is recall locked to systems with a NPU or do dGPUs count too?

[glossy glacier]

recall doesn't do system snapshots though? only screenshots afaik

[mental oriole]

Screenshots of something that you probably don't want it to take screenshots of.

[night girder]

source: support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/retrace-your-steps-with-recall-aa03f8a0-a78b-4b3e-b0a1-2eb8ac48701c

So maybe Microsoft is using the wrong terminology in this article. Or just plain confusing:

To use Recall you need to opt in to saving snapshots, **which are screenshots **of your activity.

[night girder]

but you are right, it shouldn't be system wide, only browser, mails, etc.

[mental oriole]

I don't understand why I need a screenshot of my mail

when I can just search it.

[glossy glacier]

not saying it isn't still bad, just not that bad

[night girder]

It's "AI" driven. So you can type in pizza. And everything pizza related shows up. If you were browsing and you saw a picture of a pizza, Recall will show you.

If you have a document and the word pizza is in it, it should pop up.

[glossy glacier]

or if thers some text with pizza. they are run though ocr

[night girder]

honestly, just seems like a fancy search function.

But what happens for example, you work at a company, you have sensitive files. You delete a file. Does it get deleted in Recall? And if not, what if someone gets access to the snapshots and can get the files that way? That's why I believe recall is disable on enterprise out of the box.

With a normal search (as we now have in most OS systems), this wouldn't happen I think?

[mental oriole]

It has to be, no corp ever would want that because it's a fucking security risk.

[glossy glacier]

screenshot/snapshot will remain until it gets too old

[pure karma]

it absolutely dosent this is Microsoft were talking about here

[night girder]

and besides the privacy concerns, I just don't need such a feature. Simple as that. I have no use case for it on this PC.

[pure karma]

yea i dont see much a use for such a feature other than one off things

[glossy glacier]

but it's AI! dont you need/want AI? everybody wants AI!
like AI or we will loose a lot of money

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blw_ZjLbHNs

[mental oriole]

I can save money by using an LLM throw out mumbo jumbo garbage.

[night girder]

what can go wrong?

[mental oriole]

You know that question very well

[night girder]

A British man who planned to have a "robot lawyer" help a defendant fight a traffic ticket has dropped the effort after receiving threats of possible prosecution and jail time.

Joshua Browder, the CEO of the New York-based startup DoNotPay, created a way for people contesting traffic tickets to use arguments in court generated by artificial intelligence.

Here's how it was supposed to work: The person challenging a speeding ticket would wear smart glasses that both record court proceedings and dictate responses into the defendant's ear from a small speaker. The system relied on a few leading AI text generators, including ChatGPT and DaVinci.

So an AI tells you in your ear what you have to say 👍

[languid gulch]

i wonder if the threats from judges were chatgpt responses 🤣

[past agate]

The question is: Is it more secure than what the average potato user would be doing otherwise? Most people give away their personal info for the smallest of inconveniences (social media cough) so it could still be better than the alternative

And a power user wouldn't use that and would setup something better anyways.

thinking to the girl who posted the tiktok video saying it's an outrage to ban tiktok and she's an 18yo girl, what info do I have that matters? China can have it etc. let me keep Tiktok 🤣

Only issue with wireless is the latency and batteries and/or charging it frequently can be annoying.

USB cords on mice these days are so light I don't even notice it.

My goto since like 2009 or so has been the Deathadder

I don't like having the 18 buttons lol, 2 is fine.

Although I saw the one mouse they add a 6 button side panel, which might work out too.

[wanton orchid]

People are usually too dumb
some of them actually get played on everyday because they leak personal info to coworkers etc
then say they don't have valuable info
like yea ssn is "just a number" right ?

if China know you're a bitch and have some important relatives
they know they can subtly corrupt you

I don't get how you can have a mouse numpad yet be accurate with it

the thumb is useful in controlling the mouse movements

[night girder]

but you don't play wow anymore 😛

[wanton orchid]

that does not answer my question

how are you controlling your mouse without the thumb ?

(flying thumb essentially)

[night girder]

Some brands you can stil use mouse while wired (charging).

So you basically have a wired mouse 🤷‍♂️

[wanton orchid]

ofcourse

[night girder]

do you play a lot of shooters?

ok, then it makes some sense

personally I don't like too many buttons.

[wanton orchid]

my question is how do you control your mouse then
of course you know how to use buttons

[night girder]

like that, and not much pressure on thumb I guess.

[wanton orchid]

So it's either control or button press/action
but not at same time right ?

[night girder]

pro even lets you swap sides

So you can have that.

[tardy current]

what is that gizmo

[night girder]

175 euro ... yikes

[night girder]

So if the side buttons bother you, you swap sides (e.g. a shooter). And when you want more buttons, you swap again (e.g. MMORPG).

[tardy current]

ok thats kinda smart

[night girder]

but you pay a lot for such features

not sure if the price is justified

well, it's almost christmas

if that's really the best mouse for your hand and you need all the buttons 😄

those are mind tricks they play on you 😂

[pure karma]

i got to try a naga and i hated it because id press the side buttons every time i tried to move it but its defedently a good mouse if your trying to stand out

[night girder]

you can also buy a keyboard with more buttons

then you even have MORE buttons

I think logitech has one with macro keys

for a mmo, I can understand

especially games like WoW with tons of skills and items to use endgame

I've seen people play classic WoW with a controller

first mouse was logitech G5, then logitech G502 and then logitech G502

[languid gulch]

i went garbage>garbage>garbage>G602>G604>M913

[night girder]

You could slot weights in the G5 like this. G502 changed it a bit.

[night girder]

interesting

[night girder]

And you use that? 😂

[languid gulch]

lol hell no

not for its price

[night girder]

Why does it look like a device from the SAW movies?

[languid gulch]

i was thinking it looks more like a mechsuit attachment

i like chonk

[night girder]

it's the little arms going above the fingers that creep me out

[languid gulch]

🤣

top button, literally

i can hit an 11th on the piano

i can do 1-0 on keyboard with index-pinky finger

eh. good for some things

they do make half & 3/4 size instruments

i have a half size guitar for easy carrying

awwww

i'm too old to work with music software 🤣

[warped phoenix]

"wiki machine broke" "understandable, have a nice day"

(sauce: /r/softwaregore)

[languid gulch]

futurama text lookin ass

i've still got one

[pure karma]

i dont think i have seen a vinyl in my life

i have seen a few old radios but not much else in therms of audio stuff

[night girder]

my vinyl player has usb 😂

so I can record to my PC

[languid gulch]

i have a few phonograph cylinders 🤣

[night girder]

niiice

that's a cool item to have

[languid gulch]

no idea if they're still functional, i'm afraid to try

[night girder]

you can play em?

[languid gulch]

with a wind up phonograph, yea

afraid to fire that up too 🤣

[night girder]

how old is it?

[languid gulch]

probably 120+ years

[night girder]

good collectors item?

or in bad condition?

[languid gulch]

not really, i don't think it's a special brand or in good enough shape

i don't want to know how much it'd cost to get it up & running

[night girder]

still cool to have 120 year old tech 😄

[languid gulch]

i have a 180 year old piano 😛

it's so old it's before there were 3 pedals

[night girder]

why does that sound expensive?

[languid gulch]

oh it's not 🤣

[night girder]

is it that bad? 😂

[languid gulch]

brought over on the boat by my ancestors

[night girder]

damn!

[languid gulch]

it is NOT in good shape 🤣 not even a metal core, it's all wood

[night girder]

is it wing piano?

[languid gulch]

upright

[night girder]

That.

[languid gulch]

right

it's an upright piano

[languid gulch]

yup

[night girder]

Ok, yeah. I was wondering how much space it takes.

[languid gulch]

it's a glorified shelf right now 🤣

sounds like a horror movie

[night girder]

the oldest thing I have is a dagger from WO 2 from my grandpa.

[languid gulch]

i've got some maps & medals from my great uncle from that

[night girder]

and a few of his badges and medals.

Yeah exactly. I keep them.

I think I even got a picture of him in uniform.

he also had a small organ

[languid gulch]

had to look up the german translation, my great uncle was an american howitzer operator in the Ardennes Offensive

[languid gulch]

for those who think driving a motorcycle is simple 🤣

[night girder]

fucking ardennes ...

[languid gulch]

yea, he landed in normandy ~2 weeks after D-Day

this guy flies over my house a few times a year

[night girder]

Funny you post that. I am just watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_1_zRnptgg

This navy pilot posts a lot of videos insides the jet and explains whats going on. It's cool to see.

[languid gulch]

all those people are batshit crazy to me

[night girder]

he has some cool landing videos

I have so much respect. Landing on a moving boat at that speed and with the distance you have.

[languid gulch]

i'd love to go aboard the USS Ford

[night girder]

We don't have much to offer when it comes to Navy.

[languid gulch]

you're german?

[night girder]

Leopold 1.

Louise Marie.

Two of our more current generation.

Then we have a few smaller vesels (9) and that's it.

[night girder]

Nah, the other little country that has almost the same flag

[languid gulch]

🤣

i mean, you don't need too much when you're at peace

or when (someone else) is half the world's naval tonnage

[night girder]

But as you can see, it doesn't scream "I want to visit that!"

we don't have any aircraft carriers either

[languid gulch]

can't just do a carrier sadly

[night girder]

Would be so funny if we had one 😂

[languid gulch]

could you imagine the dock for it?

[night girder]

we can sacrifice 1/5 of our coast line for it

[languid gulch]

🤣

that would be such an amazing middle finger to the dutch next door 🤣

god that'd be so american too. "you built all that for farms? screw that, we want NAVY"

[night girder]

gotta admit, it is an impressive naval fleet. Sorry farms.

470 ships according to wikipedia 😄

[languid gulch]

the largest air force is the US air force. the 2nd largest is the US Navy

ok now i wanna see a carrier going up the Scheldt

[night girder]

mhh... good point.

We can make it wider

[languid gulch]

world's widest J-turn

[night girder]

Everything, aslong as we get our carrier.

[languid gulch]

that kind of thing would have to be put in the national anthem somewhere

[night girder]

And then we have these, F 35's.

[languid gulch]

i live near where all the pilots for those get trained 😛

[night girder]

Flying is so interesting.

But I don't live near any military bases or anything.

[languid gulch]

kinda hard to not live by on around here

[night girder]

else I would probably visit if possible

[languid gulch]

i used to live near 3 bases, then the cold war ended

[night girder]

It's not a bad thing.

[languid gulch]

still makes us a nice big target

and i live near where all those intel CPUs got ruined 🤣

and not too far from the new monster TSMC plant

[languid gulch]

sadly it's not worth it anymore. need all kinds of special permissions these days to see the real fun stuff

at least in the US

no idea about europe, tho i suspect the same rules apply to US basese there too

[night girder]

Strategically we are vulnerable too. Historically, we held during WO 1 but that was becaue of a trick. There was a tiny piece of land they weren't able to claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yser_Front

During WO 2 we got overrun and defeated badly.

What we did was open flood gates at certain points to flood the land. So the enemies tanks got stuck in the fields.

[languid gulch]

i just can't imaging that kind of devastation, let alone twice in 1 lifetime

[night girder]

But to be honest, if one of our neighbours falls, we have no chance. We are just to tiny to be able to defend.

[languid gulch]

it's still amazing how much of the "old stuff" has survived over there given all the wars. i just wonder what's been lost

[night girder]

a lot.

especially books I think

books are sensitive anyway. To environmental conditions. Time. Fire. Water.

Ceasar burned down the library of Alexandria. At that time one of the biggest libraries in the ancient world.

[pure karma]

starting to think the whole intel degredation ordeal was way over exagerated

then again i am at the lowest point of the spectrum

[rustic panther]

It did ruin chips AFAIK

I think most people'd probably be fine, but "probably doesn't get fried within 2 years of purchase" is not good enough when I'd be spending more than half a grand on a cpu

[pure karma]

i know it did but like iv been running oc for over 5000 run hours now and still nothing odd so i guess im doing fairly decent so far

[gilded helm]

Silicon lottery

[pure karma]

defedently at play but i doubt its having a huge impact

[languid gulch]

the problem is that you can't tell until it fails. just firing the CPU up, in the fab, for initial QC testing could have degraded it without the testing showing it

and unless they started putting "NOT WITH SHITTY OLD MICROCODE" on the box, you have no idea if it has that shitty old microcode still on it until you buy it & fire it up & check for it

& what tells me that it's a huge deal: Intel just sending out replacements, no questions asked, the second anyone starts asking questions. with tech companies doing everything they can to not send replacements until they're basically forced into doing so, it's suspicious as hell that Intel of all companies would start doing so in a "please please please don't sue us or do a recall" kind of way

[tough owl]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D59TW43X

should I buy it for the funny haha

[languid gulch]

i don't think $45 even pays for the individual plug licenses

gives me SNL "Gillette Mach 3000" vibes

oh sorry it was MadTV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjAZnGeBcgg

[short marlin]

@narrow zenith you should definitely run a cinebench

[narrow zenith]

currently doing that

thats why its that hot lol

@short marlin still a few minutes left on it, but its been sitting at a constant 95 degrees and 5 GHz

[short marlin]

5GHz ain't the 5,4Ghz boost 🤔

[narrow zenith]

huh it actually got up to 5.8GHz on some cores lol

[short marlin]

During the stress test?

[narrow zenith]

yeah

[short marlin]

Cuz in idle they go sometimes way higher

[twin dew]

And those max boost clocks are usually archievable only in 1 or 2 core load, so it dropping up to 1GHz for all core is completely normal.

From the official max boost.

[narrow zenith]

got a multi core score of 1014 on cinebench

[short marlin]

Some throttling jere

1100 is the usual spot here

[twin dew]

Cooler.

[narrow zenith]

it is the stock 2700X cooler lol

[short marlin]

Wraith Spire

[narrow zenith]

wraith prism

[short marlin]

Yeah, prism

[twin dew]

But as most stuff don't do all-core max load, in real usage probably not much effect.

[narrow zenith]

yeah only issues ive been having with this system is the lack of vram mainly

and just raw gpu performance

[twin dew]

If this came from Satisfactory performance, on that CPU, the game will pretty quickly turn to be CPU single-core and RAM bandwidth limited.
While that single-core clock is limited by other cores being active too to various levels.

[narrow zenith]

its also my maxed out gpu usage

lol

[twin dew]

Ok, then still GPU limited in your save.

If it isn't broken Nvidia drivers.

[narrow zenith]

probably a mix of both

8gb of vram sucks, even tho the 1080 i was on before also had 8

[twin dew]

Ah, 7700X as CPU, with just old cooler.

Different thing entirely.
Hadn't read the start of the conversation before swapping channels.

[narrow zenith]

lol

[twin dew]

Then neither.
GPU being at 100% is to be expected.
But that cooler isn't enough for that CPU with much higher TDP than 2700X.

[narrow zenith]

i ordered some cheap offbrand cooler off aliexpress but its taking a while to get here lol

[twin dew]

Ok, the base TDP was the same, remembered wrong what 2700X had.

But yeah, that drop in FPS is from games internal VRAM limiters getting hit.
Need to use step lower Texture Quality.

It "only" drops to 18 FPS as the RAM bandwidth and CPU are so good.

[narrow zenith]

just need to hold out for my 7900XTX

[twin dew]

Or just use High textures for now instead of Ultra?

[narrow zenith]

i already dropped it to high, maybe medium

i forget

[short marlin]

Yeah. That sucks

Literally no performance, but drawing power without stopping it

My I9 can sing multiple songs about it.

And getting hot af.
However that is a cooler issue aswell

[soft bloom]

@twin dew
i think somehow using 12V output for network devices left impact on power station
the one i started using had some ocasions of suddenly shutting and when i turn it back on it wrongly says 99% and starts charging for some time?
and now second one after being used for networking for about a week has same symptom
Any ideas?..

[twin dew]

Only reasons I can think are going over the output current limit for that output or just design fault.

[soft bloom]

it says it can go for 10A which is x5 max sum of consumer's power supplies

[twin dew]

For that 12V output specifically?

[soft bloom]

what worries me that it continues to report 99% throughout charging

Looks like it's shared/for both (i use Y, so only 1 output plugged in)

[twin dew]

Ok, cannot know.
Might be too "unstable" current pull for example.
Or just bad output circuit etc.

[soft bloom]

i wonder if the way it estimates capacity is somehow sabotaged by such output

[soft bloom]

I thought for some time that maybe current is too low and it just stops output, but it has setting to keep output on for quite some time (hours), so it shouldn't happen when in active use

[jagged snow]

Alright y'all, I'm having a weird issue and I don't even know where to start to fix it

Games cannot/will not capture my mouse cursor even in exclusive fullscreen, and I'm on a dual monitor setup - every time I try to turn right and then click, the game looses focus. I've restarted multiple times, updated display driver, made sure there weren't any other apps that could be preventing it from taking control. I'm at a total loss as to how to fix it, only solution I've found so far is unplugging my second monitor anytime I want to play something.

[twin dew]

Some overlay program misbehaving.

Which at this point can be so many things, including most mouse or keyboard config softwares etc.

[jagged snow]

afaik I don't have a single one enabled except maybe steam

I don't use m/kb software

Radeon overlay is disabled

[twin dew]

And they might be still active on program level even when not displaying anything.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, that's unfortunate

Alright, steam overlay was disabled

Turned that off

And adrenaline won't even open???

[twin dew]

Is it erroring?

[jagged snow]

Nope

[twin dew]

It can get stuck and needs to be killed with Task Manager, to launch again.

[jagged snow]

I've seen this before, used to happen on my machine all the time

DDU + Reinstall fixed it previously

I got tired of having to kill my gpu software in taskman every time I wanted to use it

Also winders defender network inspection for some reason keeps ms rdc active in the background

I'm wondering if windows update broke my adrenaline install in the background

Okay, finally got that open

Overlay is disabled there too

[willow pike]

www.pcgamer.com/games/fps/a-valve-engineer-fixed-3d-lighting-so-hard-he-had-to-tell-all-the-graphics-card-manufacturers-their-math-was-wrong-and-the-reaction-was-i-hate-you/

"It's a bit technical," begins Birdwell, "but the simple version is that graphics cards at the time always stored RGB textures and even displayed everything as non linear intensities, meaning that an 8 bit RGB value of 128 encodes a pixel that's about 22% as bright as a value of 255, but the graphics hardware was doing lighting calculations as though everything was linear.

this is fucking braindead

[twin dew]

And like I said, it can be any overlay capable software misbehaving.

[twin dew]

Doing everything already in sRGB, and not just converting at the end.

[willow pike]

calculating as if 128/255 is 50% bright is stupid

god and i remember all the marketing guff of GPUs at the time

geforce fx 5800 ultra

and nobody had any fuckin clue what they were doing

you tell this to anyone who knows one iota about colour spaces and they head will explode

[night girder]

@jagged snow This is not game specific? As in; multiple different game have this behavior?

[jagged snow]

Every game, in any display mode

[night girder]

If not mistaken, Microsoft/Xbox also have an overlay.

Just thinking about what Baldur said about it potentially being an overlay.

How long has this been going on?

[jagged snow]

A week or two?

[jagged snow]

That one I know doesn't disable the overlay because there's still a keyboard shortcut to do it

And you can't fully remove game bar without hurting some pretty core windows functionality

[night girder]

I was able to disable the short but I forgot how.

[jagged snow]

My problem is I still need it

To play the games I own through ms store and send party invites

[night girder]

I don't think it's that overlay.

Since you stated it started a week or two.

Now I am thinking either steam or AMD. Latest AMD update I got was 11/10/2024.

And Steam added a new feature; game recording. Also recently (a few week ago?)

[jagged snow]

I'm on the latest amd version

And my problem is I took a bit of a break from gaming and came back to that issue

So really it could've started anytime in the last month

[narrow zenith]

lol thats a new one

never seen every core max out at the same time before

[jagged snow]

People having an insane amount of compute avlaible to them and not using it 😔

[night girder]

Do you think a program is focus stealing?

[jagged snow]

Like seriously, games really are an incredible waste of compute compared to "actual" tasks

[jagged snow]

I don't think so

More like something preventing games from grabbing focus

[night girder]

Ok, because there is a regedit fix that might solve focus stealing prroblem.

[narrow zenith]

i paid for the whole computer, im going to use the whole computer

[night girder]

enhanced sync enabled in AMD? Fight or Flight?

[narrow zenith]

this is uh
real time ai voice changing

with the settings set way too high

[jagged snow]

Not afaik, I left PC to make breakfast
I'll check when I get back to it

@night girder It's disabled

[night girder]

Mhh... it is interesting it doesn't happen when you have 2nd monitor unplugged, if I read that correctly.

[jagged snow]

No, it still does

[night girder]

Then I misread that 🙂

[jagged snow]

Just if the second monitor is unplugged it's more manageable

Because it stays on the proper monitor so the only thing for it to click on is the taskbar

[night girder]

btw, I just got new AMD driver 24.12.1. But you probably already have it?

[jagged snow]

Release notes don't have anything relevant

[night girder]

No, reading them too.

[verbal raft]

Good to know

[wanton orchid]

tbf there are 2 ways people can't be blamed :

• a process scale is much smaller in time than human scale, normalizing load time over a human time monitoring software refresh rate is both very un representative and misleading of what's really happening, which means that a process using all cores only 40% of the time will widely benefit from that many core performance (if cpu have double the cores and double the performance per core the software will be 30-40% actual performance uplift already, even though cpu is "not near maxed out")
• also a lot of magical power is claimed from Microsoft and system designers : operating systems and softwares are still to these days exceedingly bad at working correctly when ressources are "starved"

[jagged snow]

Oh believe me, I fully understand both of those

For a client/user-facing machine, for it to feel snappy and responsive it needs to be sitting pretty much idle

I'm just saying that the theoretical compute that the average person has sitting at their fingertips is mind boggling

[wanton orchid]

yep

I actually want people to someday be able to use it without it being shit

[jagged snow]

That was a mind-blowing thing for me when I started getting into software dev at an asm level

[wanton orchid]

which likely means giving everyone at least 5 years lead of software comfort without any hardware improvement

[jagged snow]

Realizing just how fast the machines are behind the scenes and how many individual operations are happening

And the sheer number of calculations you can do with an efficiently utilized processor, even something as slow as something in the AVR family like a 328

[languid gulch]

found the perfect keyboard

only $500

[night girder]

spacebar got nuked.

[tough owl]

Who needs a space bar when you could have so many more buttons instead

[normal atlas]

I want this

what's it called?

[stray badger]

Is that a blackmagic keyboard?

[mental oriole]

[languid gulch]

mechboards.co.uk/products/hyper-7-v4?variant=41911394861261

[twin dew]

SMOL

[night girder]

Spacebar is interesting,.

Can be wide, or you can have multiple smaller keys.

[mental oriole]

I'd think I'd prefer my 60 key...

[twin dew]

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2024/12/03/why-did-intel-fire-ceo-pat-gelsinger/

Yesterday the Intel board did the idiotic and fired CEO Pat Gelsinger. SemiAccurate told you our initial thoughts on the subject and then dug… and discovered.

So that brings up the big question, what caused the board to fire Pat? Yes we know that officially he ‘retired’ but, well, he didn’t. They summarily canned him and didn’t have the guts to own up to it. Either way, why? Well after some digging, SemiAccurate was told the reason and it is, err, stupid.
But that reason wasn't at least that free version, no idea if it would be in the paid version or not.

But several interesting bits in there about past Intel and AMD

[magic path]

If anybody is interested in power consumption of this setup i measured since i got my Outlet Power Meter

Screen: Dell 3422dwg
GPU: Radeon XFX 7900xt
CPU: Ryzen 5800x3d
Cooling: Nzxt kraken 280
Case: Nzxt h6 flow
Power Supply: Seasonic Focus GX 1000 Gold
SSD Kingston KC3000 1TB
MotherBoard: MSI X570 edge wifi

Measured via outlet power meter.

With Chrome and youtube fullscreen + gpu overlay and discord
Approx 0,028 EUR per hour

With Game Enshrouded Multiplayer on 3440x1440 + max details and Gpu overlay and discord
Approx 0,069 EUR per hour

That is with price of 0,13 EUR per KWH

Consumption of outlet when off is 45W

[gilded helm]

I might be able to corroborate a lot of that when I see some friends tonight who are employees. On the other hand, that article does acknowledge this.
Sure he made some serious missteps and at times cheesed off many folk in the financial world

Pat owns Raptor Lake, biting off too much too soon with graphics, and more.

[twin dew]

Which is pretty understandable, as the current financial world is completely incompatible with most manufacturing or R&D heavy companies.

If they want to stay alive.

[gilded helm]

One of my friends is pretty high up at fabs, I might ask her directly if that article about 18A yields is really all that bad.

Every employee I ever talked to openly admitted that the Raptor like thing was terrible.

On the other hand I probably shouldn't bother them about work

For anyone on the fence about clicking the link and reading the article, Charlie definitely has real sources. Though from what I recall he is prone to some editorialization.

[night girder]

maybe its a bit too soon 😉

[night girder]

That's my issue atm with all the Pat speculation. There is no information from intel, only people speculating on the internet and a few journalists trying to figure it out and make a good article out of it.

[gilded helm]

I'm going to make sure I'm not the one to bring it up. But I might get some interesting takes tonight. Ultimately Intel employees go out at night and vent about their jobs just the same as other people.

[night girder]

Also, Intel should have expected this speculation by "retiring" the ceo instead of firing.

But maybe firing a CEO is more expensive (contract) than just letting them retire. Who knows.

[gilded helm]

I'm also curious whether Battlemage's B770 (or whatever) survives. It wouldn't surprise me if Intel enters full bean counter mode and cancels it, even if it's close to ready. Tom was on the PC World podcast talking about it as though it's coming. On the other hand, his whole job is to paint a rosy picture.

[night girder]

axing* a product can be a rosy picture for investors.

If that product isn't profitable.

Have you read who is in the running to be CEO?

And I mean, who they asked for the positions

[gilded helm]

And I have doubts about whether it would be. The B580 is the size of the 4070 Ti. If the B770 would be the size of a 480, but for $350, they probably save both money and employee workdays by axing it.

[night girder]

Matt Murphy, Marvel CEO

[gilded helm]

Wuh?

[night girder]

There are more candidates. But that's one of the candidates atm.

Also Lip-Bu Tan

[gilded helm]

Hm. Windows 11 24H2 appearing for me.

crosses fingers

[night girder]

Recall shouldn't be in it 🙂

[gilded helm]

I'm also going to be checking for Tobii, somehow that crap loves to be reinstalled.

[night girder]

Tobii, doesn't ring a bell

[gilded helm]

"Productivity" software. It tries to dim the screen to save energy when you look away and other things, it just doesn't work well in practice.

[night girder]

That is a bit weird, I wonder how it works? 🤔

First I though it was because of this windows update containing drivers. But I don't think it's a driver or is it?

Or else maybe this?

Assuming it's W11

That would annoy the hell out of me if something kept reinstalling every update 😒

[night girder]

😂

[gilded helm]

I had actually specifically check to make sure it wasn't installed before I told 24H2 to go. About to hit restart, let's see if MS/Lenovo "help" me by reinstalling it.

[night girder]

Yeah, if that's the case, I am curious what is pushing it.

[gilded helm]

MLID posted a die size of 271mm for the die now used for the B580 back on January 27th this year. 1mm off from official press material. His claim for what will be the B770 die is 387mm. Slightly bigger than a 379mm 4080 die.

Lulz, 24H2 install failed, now Windows Update is open and seems to have forgotten it ever tried. No adverse effects, at least.

The black magic world of laptop software updates.

[night girder]

Happened once to me, forgot how I fixed it.

[gilded helm]

I'm content to wait, it's not being forced for now.

[night girder]

I haven't updated either. I let it cook for a week or two.

[gilded helm]

Because of the CPU performance improvements, by now I have to imagine this one has gotten a lot of telemetry sent back to MS to get fixing. But back to the cooker, yeah.

[night girder]

Steam is having troubles. The store was down, so I restarted steam. Then I had to login in, but the steam app is down too. Then suddenly, without entering a password, it logged in out of the blue 😂 But now steam still wont load 🤷‍♂️

[languid gulch]

ok i have a really dumb question

can iGPU graphics be sent thru a mostly disbled GPU? like just on enough to let the signal thru?

almost like a reverse mux

[stray badger]

yes actually, that is how laptops without a MUX switch operate

the problem is that this means that the igpu framebuffer must be used, which is slower

you lose a bit of FPS

[languid gulch]

i was more thinking of having it as a way to save power on a desktop

[stray badger]

you can do that

it takes some work tho

there is also PCIE passthrough on linux

[glossy glacier]

It appeared on my work PC too. Failed the first time too. Second try worked.
After installing it lost the windows activation key...
GG MS

[wanton orchid]

you save more power having the igpu send the screen out

I don't get what you are trying to achieve

[twin dew]

The slowing step is copying the finished frame buffer from dGPU VRAM to IGP "VRAM" for display.

Just single copy of the finished frame as texture.

And it only saves power when nothing is using that dGPU, so it can be fully turned off.

[twin dew]

And in theory you can already to the same on desktop, by connecting monitor(s) to the IGP, and not the dGPU.
Just that desktop GPUs aren't really set up to get into that full shutdown even with that.
And the whole frame buffer copying is currently broken in Win11 after recent update for some reason.

[languid gulch]

i was thinking of not having to constantly move the connector on the back of the tower

[twin dew]

And point was, you don't move the cable.
With monitor on IGP, IGP will be active, and programs use dGPU or IGP for rendering, depending on Windows settings.
And in theory, when nothing is running on dGPU, it will almost completely power down.
But that frame buffer copy from dGPU to IGP causes minor performance degradation (and is currently broken on many systems on Windows 11).

Because my primary monitor is on dGPU, both Power saving and High performance are both actually dGPU, even when IGP is active.
If I only did use IGP outputs, power saving would be IGP and high performance would be dGPU by default.

[soft bloom]

Something i really like about acoustic guitar: engaging even single string makes others oscilate too, even after fully stopping the one first one

[wanton orchid]

fun fact
the same happens on piano

[edgy hazel]

fun fact
nobody at work likes my idea of using kubernetes

[winged valley]

Kubernetes is a name I hear and recognize as IT related but don't actually know what it is

[glossy glacier]

Isn't docker-in-all-but-name?

[twin dew]

<@&387163995947270144>

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qqeMWrrxMc

was not expecting this, ever

[willow pike]

https://tenor.com/view/lilnouns-nouns-lil-nouns-dao-noggles-gif-27131043

[visual tree]

Wish I had popcorn bucket that big

I might have to borrow that popcorn bucket for this:

Apparently, they used Vista or Windows 7 and didn't update office

[languid gulch]

i wanna know where a prop like that is stored

[edgy hazel]

Basically a highly customizable docker deployment tool that needs at least 3 people administrating it

But its insanely capable

[past agate]

Kubernetes is like if Microsoft wanted in on some new tech and made their own version which is invariably far more complicated ... and then IBM looked at what Microsoft made and said Hold My Beer.

Or maybe another allegory would be: Kubernetes is to C, as Docker is to C#

I'm not sure where something like Terraform fits into that discussion though ... middleware for both of them?

[night girder]

Kubernetes is pretty cool

[tough owl]

TLDR?

[gilded helm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7mjKeck7k0&t=1070s

Some people in the PC World Discord claimed that Tom said something along the lines of 'the work is done, B700 GPUs are coming.' But that's the only reference to it I can possibly find, and it's not definite at all.

With Pat gone I think B700 GPUs are dead

[soft bloom]

makes sense

[soft bloom]

is your idea to use it as scaling proxy?

[soft bloom]

where did that number come from?

[edgy hazel]

More a central management tool for a shitton of services that I'd rather have containerized

[edgy hazel]

The french

[soft bloom]

i write in english - so i administer itmyself

[edgy hazel]

Trois

[soft bloom]

a way to convince them might be to get micro/mini/whatever-other-selfhosted-kind-of-kube-you-can-afford-to-setup and show them that you can do whatever they are doing/plan to do much easier

[edgy hazel]

I'll need to do a shitton of private work first so i can actually be like "hey i know this shit pretty well actually"

First my own education

[soft bloom]

also might help if there are like articles from companies asying "we did this using k8s, and it's better than X"

[night girder]

Anyone here have anker speakers or powerbanks?

www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2025/Anker-Soundcore-Lithium-Ion-Battery-Powered-Bluetooth-Speakers-Recalled-Due-to-Fire-Hazard-Sold-Exclusively-on-Amazon-com-by-Anker-Innovations

[mental oriole]

Nope.

[soft bloom]

got my hands on these voltage converters

so a good test before actually powering WiFi would be to find some 12Ohm load (12v 1A power supply) and measure what voltage it gets, right?

[languid gulch]

jay was rightfully pissed, CEO was embarrassed, but i honestly don't see anything good coming from it

[gilded helm]

The discussions I recall glancing make it all seem more like stupidity rather than malice.

[languid gulch]

i suspect that they've already pulled a profit out of that "program", and so they can look like the good guys & cancel it without losing a dollar

[soft bloom]

found some resistor from toy racing controller
9Ohm exactly...

plugged the buck converter into 12V, tuned output down to 9.5V without load (from 10.5V which is max for such input V)
connecting that full resistor as load - voltage across it is 9.25V, but the fiber inside of it starts burning...

kinda not looking so great.
decided to try measuing current, conencting in series with same resistor - shows 0.01A... totally unexpected and wrong
confused

[twin dew]

Because you are actually pumping 1 A into that 9 ohm resistor, for 9.5W or so.
When most resistors are either 250mW or 500mW max.

Well, pumped, until that overheating caused the resistor do fail.

10W resistor examples for comparison, where that last one is 8mm diameter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAANNGvMANM

Saga continues

[wanton orchid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfwLIopmVhg

[soft bloom]

wait, i don't regulate current. so i assumed that having 9 Ohm with 9.5V applied will result in about 1A current.

(well, i mean, the chip can't go over 3A peaks)

resistor was like that,
burning started on small areas on opposite sides (from perspective of this image, top and bottom)
so wire itself seems fine - only the plate burned

aaand, somehow, when measured current with the same resistor, it wasn't burning like at all

but yeah, that resistor wasn't suppsoed to ever feel anything about 6V 0.5A, that's true

[wanton orchid]

electronic stuff tip: always looks for load ratings details

remember theoretical capacitor dont have Voltage characteristics for instance

yet it is an extremely important value of real capacitors

[soft bloom]

true

but i litereally found something from an old stuff without any markings 🙂

now i'm even more confused...

repeating yesterday:
plugging ampermeter in series with that same resistor - 0.01A, almost now power draw
plugging without ampermeter (just resistor as load) - 9W total (with duck converter) power draw and smell of resistor's base (that glass fiber thingy) burning

[soft bloom]

0.01A definitely should not result in 9W power draw

[soft bloom]

ok so i found old soviet resistors, put series of 9 Ohm total - it draw ~10W under 9.17V which seems fine for something that needs 9V 1A

i guess the amp meter simply had enough resistance to make such impact

[jagged snow]

To measure resistance, if your ammeter isn't doing it for you, just measure voltage drop across the resistors

Its going to be way simpler than what you're doing now

[soft bloom]

well that was the firt thing i did. but i wanted double confirmation...

[jagged snow]

Ah, gotcha

[soft bloom]

Now that it's done, i wonder how it would react with 24V source: will it scale to 18V, or be left at 9V?

[jagged snow]

Current is proportional to voltage

[soft bloom]

I don't (... always) trust theory that much when it's outside of pen and paper

or rather i'm just picky about what to trust

fact is - observations didn't match the theory

is it correct that the thing that actually overheats there is that black chip? or gray box?..

*heats, when active

[twin dew]

That 8-legged chip is the main operating part.
That grey part is inductor.

[soft bloom]

1 first was pretty expected
and given that it has known note about operation above 1.8A it was the main suspect
but i hoped it would be the bigger thing that is easier to attach radiator to

Thank you

in one word - it's working

[twin dew]

The whole PCB is acting as heatsink for most such parts.
They often have ninth giant center pad to connect to PCB ground fill.

Power electonic ones, not logic ones.

Would need the code from the chip to confirm.

[soft bloom]

You mean that heatsink attached to backplate would work fine?

[twin dew]

As long as you don't short anything.

[soft bloom]

It has some coating, and i hope the sticky thermal pad on the back of heatsink is not condictive

[twin dew]

So all good as long as you don't hit those outer pads.
As that green stuff is insulator.

Also those 8 vias under that 8-pin part are there for that heat transfer from that center ninth pad.

To make that back side fill work as heatspreader.

So as long as you don't hit those outer power pads with solder on them, and only add the heatsink to soldermasked (that green stuff) area between them, you don't have to care about insulation etc. as that soldermask is one.

And there are those 8 vias to move heat from the chip to the backside fill already.

[soft bloom]

Probably overkill (well, it should be able to supply 20V 1.8A no sweat, nad 3A max)

[verbal raft]

MAAAN DO I HATE THIS CLICKBAITER:

[dire igloo]

DeArrow

[soft bloom]

Why even bother? Topic is not that interesting anyway

[verbal raft]

i know

[soft bloom]

Getting updates once a year is more than enough for consumer

[vivid forge]

Anyone here sitting on a 5950x ? whats your idle temps ?

[twin dew]

My expectation would be 0 to 15C over ambient temperature.
As the temperature sensors inside CPUs aren't usually very accurate at low temperatures.

And now it is time for SD-Card readers that support the newer PCIe based SD-Cards to allow for DMA attacks...

SD Express

Plug special device into suitable SD-card slot, get direct RAM read and write access to all RAM.

[willow pike]

this is probably how we'll hack the switch 2

it will definitely use SD Express on cartridges

only way to meet storage speed requirements for modern games

[twin dew]

It can be protected against with IOMMU etc.
But on many of the first laptops with those SD Express capable PCIe card readers, those protection methods aren't active.

[twin dew]

https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-death-of-intel-when-boards-fail

Meet Dr. Risa Lavizzo-Mourey, who joined the board in March 2018. She has a doctorate in Medicine from Harvard and seems to be a professional board member.

As one short example

That finance side temporary co-CEO:

I'd say, the one thing that has definitely come out of the way the Board is thinking about this is, they do recognize and have pushed us that, hey, we made a lot of investments from a capital perspective in foundry, and we need to start seeing some incremental ROIC on those investments. And so and that's what we're committed to do. That's going to be my -- one of my major focuses, definitely, while I'm CFO or as I'm CFO. But of course, in the interim period where I'm CEO, I'll obviously be focused on that as well.

So investment should somehow generate ROI before it has actually been put into use via some weird magic?

[rustic panther]

Sounds like a case of terminal line must go up tbh

[twin dew]

For the latter parts, seems the board and big investors have decided to go for gutting Intel for short term profits to themselves, killing the company in medium term.

[visual tree]

Why does it sound like I see this often in my life? 😅

[twin dew]

Because couple of crackpot "economists" pushed capitalism into direction of self-defeat to get more money to the rich.

In 70s

And the momentum has been building up since then.

And started to really affect stuff in 2000s and after, and now we are in early-to-mid terminal phase.

[visual tree]

As an economist, I agree with this ☝️

[edgy hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/reagan-ronald-reagan-laughing-gif-23206318

[maiden coyote]

those aren't theores, those are laws, your observations are flawed :p

[soft bloom]

what could be the reason why Disks utility reports 12GB free, while Ubuntu gives notification that less than 1 GB is free?
using LVM

[maiden coyote]

well that didn't send a reply, but that was for you.

[maiden coyote]

there. xD

[soft bloom]

lmao

[maiden coyote]

your thing with the grey box and the black chip is called a dc-dc converter.. if it reduces voltages, it bucks it.. if it raises, it boost it..

[visual tree]

Btw, a perfect example is when the ISP board members of the company I work for support hiring cheapest contractors for deploying fiber networks without asking if they have enough resources (workers) and if they can meet deadlines

[twin dew]

And not including any real penalties for failing to hit those deadlines?

[visual tree]

You don't want to know how we penalize them....

[twin dew]

And the company is owned by family member of one of the board members?

[soft bloom]

when money are the goal all you end up is a bunch of worthless bancknotes

[maiden coyote]

the black chip has S, and the control circuitry (signal generator, and regulator built in to control the output) they look simple, but they're quite spectulcar little devices.. the grey thing is the inductor..

[visual tree]

We basically give them more projects and demand them to issue a credit note so we can pay less than agreed. That's how we punish them

[twin dew]

Extra bonuses is the norm?

[visual tree]

Or use the bank warrany they issued to us

[soft bloom]

by ordering more contracts?

[maiden coyote]

do they hit everything else buried in the ground where they're running? we've got a company like that here.. they smoke competors fiber lines, waterlines, gas lines.... buried electrical..

[visual tree]

No, it's a publicly-traded company

[twin dew]

Significant stake counts.

In share ownership

From about 1% and up at least.

[maiden coyote]

I think in our case it's a shell company that's contracted to run fiber for the bare mininum possible, as fast as possible and as cheap as possible.. and after they hit enough shit and start getting fined, they'll declare bankruptcy and the real company will "buy" them out.

[visual tree]

I've seen images of them attaching fiber splice box to the pole with a yellow tape instead of using a metal clamp....

Our PM got mad when he found out about that lol

He also mentioned he once caught the contractors using cheaper materials which are against the code

Example: contractor used a boring missile to pull a tube under the road

But instead of using a HDPE tube (or some other tube) which is more resistant to mechanical damage, they used this....

[twin dew]

You can get HDPE in that type of form factor too.
But probably only in black.
Then there is the same visual stuff that is some other plastic and much softer.

[visual tree]

Yeah, they used those cheap plastic tubes you can get in a store which break easily

[twin dew]

Seems to be available in HDPE, LDPE, PVC and PP

The cheap stuff is usually PP

[visual tree]

The main problem here are supervising engineers who get paid a lot but rarely supervise constructions and check if everything is done according to the code

And this is not just a problem related to our company, supervising engineers have a very bad reputation in general and don't actually care about supervising

Like, one of the main jobs is to check if the contractor uses agreed materials and doesn't try to use something else (which is usually cheaper)

[soft bloom]

because for company who wants to make shortterm profits they are like snitches?

[visual tree]

Supervising engineers are not hired by the company itself btw, I think the law requires you to hire someone else so there is no conflict of interest

[twin dew]

And it used to be that those supervisors were selected and paid by the buyer.
Now often they get recommended by the builder... And so if the supervisor actually does their job, no more work.

And many of the buyers aren't willing to actually pay properly for that supervision either.

And as the prime contractors aren't made to actually pay or deal with the subcontractors when they fuck up, the primes have no reason to actually vet the subcontractors properly either.
As any mistake by subcontractors just slides off the prime into the sub, and then sub just declares bankcrupsy.

When it should be that buyer gets compensated by prime, who then has to try to recoup from the sub.
Not that buyer needs to go after that subcontractor that the prime selected.

[visual tree]

Prety much how it works here. You hire a contractor who always claim they have enough resources when actually they just plan to hire subcontractors

And you have no control whether they pay or don't pay subcontractors

[twin dew]

To some extent that would be ok.
If that primer contractor then had to actually suffer from any failures of the subcontractors...
But usually they aren't, so they just keep hiring the cheapest, and not supervising anything either.

And when stuff gets fucked up just go "It isn't OUR fault, it was the subcontractor!"

[visual tree]

Most of the mistakes are usually done when contractor hires too many subcontractors and they don't have any clue what they are doing

[twin dew]

And courts etc. have started to accept that for whatever reason.
While in any sane world, that prime contractor would be on the hook for everything.

And would themselves then need to go after the sub(s) that failed.

[visual tree]

You could limit on how many subcontracts a contractor can have but I am not sure if that's legal tbh

[twin dew]

Primes would need to actually do their work, if at the "project failed, who pays for the stuff" part the prime would be on the hook as would be expected in large enough number of cases.
But for some weird reason, they are currently able to weasel out for some reason or other most of the time.
And make the problems their contracting caused to be somehow purely between the buyer and the subcontractor instead...

[visual tree]

Might as well ask my coworker who is a lawyer about this

[twin dew]

When the buyer only had contract with the prime.

And all the subcontractors had contracts with that prime, or another subcontractor.

Who then had contract with prime.

(including up to many iterations of subcontracting)

[visual tree]

A contractor once hired a driving school as a subcontractor for deploying fiber lol

The driving school somehow got permission from the government to do jobs related to fiber so we couldn't do anything about it

[twin dew]

Just would need to actually make it that the prime contractor is responsible for EVERYTHING not done according to their contract etc.
Would self-correct very quickly or the primes would go down themselves.

Because that way it should be when someone contracts the prime, who then subcontracts.
The fuckups against the contract between the orderer and prime should all be on the prime.

[visual tree]

We usually blame the prime contractor for everything but that doesn't help much when they are incompetent and our management board member picked that contractor because they are cheaper

[twin dew]

Not the subcontractor(s) who actually did the fuckup.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but point was, in Finnish house building etc. the primes currently can often get out of actually paying or doing stuff themselves to remedy the fuckups, and the buyer is instead sent to go after the specific subcontractors themselves for some insane reason.

And there is only 10 year warranty period to find the fuckups before no-one but buyer is on hook anymore.

Even if something was done in illegal ways or similar.

[visual tree]

Btw, regarding that driving school, just checked and they actually are registered for laying fiber 😅

Probably falls under "Other building completition work" or some other category

Or "other specialized construction activities"

[maiden coyote]

agreed, in the simplest way, you were contracted to do a job, and failed to do that job.

[twin dew]

Yup.
Of course the prime can then go after the subcontractor, in series until the actual failer is on the hook.
But that is then purely between prime that had to already pay/make right the original contractor, and their own subcontractor(s).

But it MUST be only Prime on hook in the first step.

AREVA is somehow trying to make the cost and schedule overruns on Olkiluoto 3 the problem of buyer, when the contract was for one turnkey nuclear reactor to Finnish nuclear safety spec, for specific cost and delivered by specific date.

And then AREVA fucked up all of the design (to finnish spec), getting the plans approved (by finnish regulators looking that they were to spec) and getting the thing built (by using cheapest subcontractors with insufficient monitoring etc.)

Was supposed to be delivered in 2009, ended up starting test use in 2021.

So 2009 to 2022 slip

[visual tree]

Damn, I always thought Finland was one of the most developed countries in the world with no space for errors 😅

[twin dew]

That is why it took so long, as AREVA wasn't expecting the level of oversight from the nuclear power regulators.

Like I said, the finnish company ordered turn key solution for fixed price.
AREVA didn't do their work and got burned by the actual oversight.

[visual tree]

Similar happened in my company. Contractor thought laying fiber is a piece of cake only to realize our Project managers literally monitor everything and will chew your ass if you mess up

The contractor was like: "How hard can it be, we just need to pull fiber cables and nobody will bother us regarding building codes and standards"

Only to realize we are going to monitor them every single day

[twin dew]

"What? You actually monitor that the weldings of the radioactive water piping is actually done by people who are accredited to do it, and that everything gets x-rayed etc. to check the welds?! ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY!"

[visual tree]

We also had problems with contractor hiring a subcontractor without telling us about it

[twin dew]

"What? We should have completed plans for the plant before we can build it? ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY?!"

[visual tree]

When a contractor hires a subcontractor, they need to send you a letter called "Introduction of subcontractor" with information regarding their qualifications and how much they are going to pay them

And they can't hire a subcontractor until you approve it

[twin dew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Unit_3

Areva was not used to STUK's regulatory approach with an early focus on the quality of structures and components. Manufacturing information and a quality control plan must be approved by both the licensee and STUK before manufacturing of the most important components is allowed to start. Inspections with hold points are made during the manufacturing.

And then those inspections found faults, and stuff had to be remanufactured, multiple times in some cases.

And so on.

[visual tree]

Btw, do you mostly generate electricity from nuclear power plants?

Most of our electricity comes from hydro plants

Hope we get rid of coal and increase wind/solar percentage

[twin dew]

Right now:
Total: 11079 MW
Nuclear: 4217 MW
Wind: 3133 MW
Water: 1571 MW
Co-production from long distance heated water production: 856 MW
Co-production from other industries: 1231 MW

[visual tree]

So, most comes from nuclear and wind

[twin dew]

Almost realtime statistics in Finnish:
https://www.fingrid.fi/sahkomarkkinat/sahkojarjestelman-tila/

Depends, water as dynamic production, some solar, but of course solar doesn't work right now.

Up to 700MW of solar last summer.

[visual tree]

Hope we become self-sufficient soon so we don't have to import anymore

[twin dew]

And during summer that heated water co-production was only 50MW or so.

[visual tree]

Although we would have to invest a lot more if electric cars become popular like in Norway

[twin dew]

District heating

[visual tree]

I like how Vienna in Austria produces energy in late December/early January from burning disposed christmas trees

[cyan crescent]

Me: that looks like a nice headset
Headset: no swappable batteries
Me: nevermind

[visual tree]

Finally found what's the problem with my led bulbs, one bulb in the series was going bad and seems power supply is going bad too

At first, I thought it's only a bulb or the power supply causing issues. Took me some time to find out both of them caused problems

[willow pike]

fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-death-of-intel-when-boards-fail

interesting read

[twin dew]

.?

😉

[willow pike]

damn dagnabbit

the final stage of capitalism

christ within ten years china might overtake america in fabs

china

socialise losses, privatise gains, short term profits above all else, shareholder returns

[soft bloom]

God bless compression algorithms

[verbal raft]

LOL

[pure karma]

big shocker the linup that sucks balls and is worst in every way sold like trash

[willow pike]

this is pretty unusual as normally people buy intel even if it's trash

something has to be extremely shit to actually nudge buyer habit

[stray badger]

also the number doesnt help

lower number bad, bigger number good

and people are used to the i naming scheme

[willow pike]

yeah ditching the i9 brand was a huge mistake

[gilded helm]

Maybe the thinking is that all the boomers who recognize the i7 branding are only ever going to buy $500 PCS anyway, because they are impressed by that branding for such a low price!

[pure karma]

at the minimum they could have artleast made it core ultra 9 15900K and so on so atleast they would have got the bigger number = better people

[willow pike]

some MBA got a raise for the core ultra brand

[soft bloom]

https://x.com/UnseenJapanSite/status/1865557220857151961
Someone is cruel and creative.

Unseen Japan (@UnseenJapanSite) on X

The student-led paper for Tokyo University says a graduate program used an HTML trick to prevent mainland Chinese students from applying, sneaking "Tiananmen Square" into its HTML code to stop the page from loading in mainland China. More details below.

Twitter · Dec 8, 2024, 12:41 AM

[sharp oasis]

So I got bored.

And discovered that android is incredibly resilliant

Even with

Two cores one prime and one little

It still runs smoothly.

Now pushing the limits

One little core on 300mhz.

It's not smooth at all. I but it's still running geekbench

[willow pike]

original android devices were slow as shit, they had to get it fast on shit hardware

and the android runtime is way better than any kind of on-device compiler should be

[cyan crescent]

Laptop got stuck in a loop and now im stuck here

Just got out of it.

At least the auto repair

[cyan crescent]

Now its stuck on the same screen but not the auto repair

[fathom patrol]

Hey everyone, anyone here game on a laptop?

I'm lookin at getting a new one but not sure what kind? Acer? Asus or maybe MSi

I currently have an Acer Nitro 5 an515-55 and I have issues with my CPU temperatures when it throttles to the cores to max (CPU hits around 95°C and GPU stays around 65°C). I went into Edit Power plan and throttled the CPU down to 99% which prevents this and my temperature stays around 65°C and my GPU always manages to stay around 60°C on max load.

Wondering if it's a thermal paste issue or just a manufacturer defect?

[languid gulch]

laptops are designed to run at max temp

[fathom patrol]

Yeah but 95°C is hella high

[languid gulch]

not anymore

[fathom patrol]

Hmm

[languid gulch]

10 years ago, sure

[fathom patrol]

Alright...

[languid gulch]

and CPUs are supposedly designed to handle it for the duration of the warranty

[fathom patrol]

I see, alright thanks for the tip

[languid gulch]

but smart to keep it running a bit cooler, that's never a bad thing

[fathom patrol]

Yeah for sure

I just wish I could run it faster but it's not that fast of a laptop to begin with anyways

[languid gulch]

+1% performance ain't worth +30C to me either

[fathom patrol]

I'll definitely look into upgrading to something better in the new year

My Acer Nitro 5 is a 10th gen i5, 16 GB RAM and a GeForce 1650 GTX so I am definitey thinking of upgrading to a faster laptop

But I'm thinking of going MSi this time around

[languid gulch]

i've never had an MSI laptop, so i can't opine on that

[fathom patrol]

Fair enough. My friend has an MSi and says it runs well.

[languid gulch]

i just tend to hunt down specs & find what's cheapest for it

[fathom patrol]

I am definitely going to look around for reviews on what's the ideal laptop these days

[languid gulch]

i do tend to look for ones that list out & have stuff like an extra drive slot & 2 sticks of ram installed

that seems to be an indicator of quality

or at least they're not cheaping out too much

[fathom patrol]

Yeah the nice thing about the Nitro is that it has 2 ram slots (upgradeable to 2x16 GB) and 2 SSD slots and 1 HDD slot so that's also the reason why I went for it aside from the fact that it only cost me about $1,000 CAD

[languid gulch]

also aim for a decent CPU/GPU combo, you can always swap out the drive & ram later

oh & skip a 4k screen, it's not remotely worth it on a laptop size screen

[fathom patrol]

Yeah for sure

Thanks for the help. I'll go laptop hunting in a few months or so.

[gilded helm]

I'm preparing to maybe buy a laptop. If the right Zen 5 X3D machine drops.

I'm looking at stacking Chase/Amex deals with Rakuten, and so forth.

[stray badger]

its been a long time since i looked at laptops. back when i did, the Legions were pretty popular so i got a Legion 5 and i didn't really like it. Too loud, not powerful enough for the price, never really took it anywhere anyways. Asus made some neat stuff, (ROG and Zephyus lines) but were pretty expensive. MSI were hit or miss, my dad's GE76 is pretty nice, much nicer than my Legion 5, but some other MSIs are less good. Acer didn't really make much when i was looking aside from the Nitro and Helios. HP had the whole bendgate problem with their laptop lids. IDK if thats been fixed or not yet.

do not buy Dell or Alienware (also Dell)

i remember Eluktronics (USA) was pretty hype, but i bought my Legion 5 before their competitor came out

they have cool stuff like mechanical keyboards in laptops and watercooling

they had a magnesium alloy chassis one back in 9th gen and turing days, idk if they still make that one

[sharp oasis]

Impressively

One core 1830mhz

[sharp oasis]

The score is not what is impressive

The fact android still barely functions is

[fathom patrol]

I still have my ASUS ROG G74SX and man, that thing was a beast back in the day. Ran for a good 10+ years too.

Only thing about that particular ASUS was taking it apart to clean it. Holy heck, it was like 25 screws, detach the bottom, detach the screen, etc etc.

[tribal kraken]

Looks like my new Lenovo laptop will arrive today. Will see if Core Ultra 9 185H is and upgrade to a i7-6820HQ for 3D scanning 😄

[pure karma]

the fact you even managed to find a core ultra laptop is beyond me considering how terible the utra linup has been selling

i have learned that a wireless mouse on a dual boot system is a 1/10 experience

because everytime you have to reconect it and it detects as a completely diffrent device each time and long story short it turns into a nerver ending list of mice

[twin dew]

The laptop variants are pretty good.
It is the desktop ones that are crap.

That Core Ultra 1## is Meteor Lake, not Arrow Lake.

Which was launched year ago already.

[pure karma]

of what the operating systems or the mice?

because for all i know its all the same

[twin dew]

Arrow lake mobile parts haven't even launched yet.

[pure karma]

oh i tought you were talking about my mice problem

is that just because they are more power efficient so its a actually decent increase in performance or what?

[tribal kraken]

Yeah the Core Ultra laptops have been good on battery life for the performance

[twin dew]

Again, Arrow Lake is crapshoot currently.
Not Meteor Lake (that laptop), or Lunar Lake.

Again, forget about brandings (Core Ultra).
You need to think in the actual archs and dies.

Meteor Lake is branded under Core Ultra 100-series.
Lunar lake is Core Ultra 200V laptop chips.
Arrow lake is currently only the Core Ultra 200 desktop chips.

[pure karma]

next architecture should be called e-waste lake

[twin dew]

Arrow Lake seems to have major issue on latency between P-cores.
And with Windows moving threads around all the time, that actually matters.

Each P-core is its own "stop", unlike AMD with 8 cores per.

And the latency is same or worse than AMD cross-CCD latency, between each P-core on Arrow Lake.

[pure karma]

a yes my favortie thing latency... that makes one 30fps feel good and the other 30fps feel like death

[twin dew]

Possibly microcode problems, which Intel is saying they will fix.

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/examining-intels-arrow-lake-at-the

[rustic panther]

interesting

[pure karma]

with the sale numbers i saw in here last night i dont see them caring

[pure karma]

at 50 a month they arent earning crap

[twin dew]

Sorry, not worse, but approaching the AMD Cross-CCD for the worst ones.

50-85 ns of latency core-to-core between the P-cores.

While current 9000-series cross-CCD is at 75-80ns with latest AGESA.

And 25-55ns inside CCD

[willow pike]

which don't make sense as arrow lake uses the classic ring bus, same as amd

[twin dew]

There is single ring for the whole multidie.
With each P-core being single stop, E-cores in clusters, and IO etc.

Unlike before where P-cores were bunched too.

If I understood currently

No, not sure what is wrong, but there is something wrong in there in Arrow Lake currently.
Causing much higher core-to-core latencies currently.

Even L3 cache is split into slice per P-core stop.

Probably something wrong with cache coherency.

[willow pike]

it's always been like this

every p core had its own stop on the ring bus, even before they added e cores

[twin dew]

Talk about the fall of Intel after Paul Otellini got instated as CEO and how the company culture has changed since then etc:
https://semianalysis.com/2024/12/09/intel-on-the-brink-of-death/

[willow pike]

intel being asleep at the wheel is why i have this username

[twin dew]

And how 5 of the 10 people on Intels board back then are still on Intels board when that was written.

This is why products like Lunar Lake, which are primarily outsourced to TSMC, cannot be ramped. They have a gross margin in the teens. The board doesn’t understand this because they don’t understand semiconductor manufacturing. The client CPU organization still ships the majority of Raptor Lake monolithic dies made by Intel’s fabs for a reason. If they didn’t, Intel would be losing money even faster.

[willow pike]

same for battlemage

even if it's good (it's not) they aren't making money selling twice the silicon for the same price

[twin dew]

Finance people who just hate having to invest in factories etc. to actually produce the stuff.

And missing that that is the only reason they have so high margins.

[willow pike]

so the new CEO bros will cancel celestial to make number go up

[stray badger]

We dont know if its good yet, embargo has not lifted

[twin dew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOlBthEFUw

And at least the die size of that B5#0 was released, don't remember if prices were yet, probably not.

But we basically know the max they can try to charge to be able to sell any.

[pure karma]

the msrp's were? or am i lost

i tought they shared $200USD for the B570 and $250USD for the B580 or something around that

[twin dew]

Like I said, I didn't remember, and default usually is to release those pretty late.
But could have been released already, just didn't even try to check right now.