off-topic-tech

[pure karma]

altho i did forget about Y-cruncher

[twin dew]

Why would you do stability testing on battery?

[pure karma]

because it instantly powered off when starting a test once so i havent left out the possibility but its not my primary focus

[pure karma]

because the issues are more consistent on battery power

and i have only ever had it all out bluescreen from it while on battery power

each time it has has been on battery power so it may be a coinicidence but may aswell run the tests on battery power aswell

[twin dew]

So pretty certainly CPU instability on lower voltage/performance levels, which would need warranty replacement to fix.

[pure karma]

could that also cause lower clock speeds or is that more likely to be a programed thing

[twin dew]

Almost all laptops drop the max performance when on battery compared to AC.

[pure karma]

i know but would a 4X clock speed decrease be rather extreme

[twin dew]

Might be setting to drop to the base clocks, and not turbo at all.

Which might be changeable.

[pure karma]

because it goes from about 4500mhz peak clocks plugged in to about 1200-1500mhz on battery power

[pure karma]

dont think so the only thing i have found is the usual performance presets

[twin dew]

In the BIOS/UEFI Firmware Setup, which you keep claiming doesn't exist

[pure karma]

its not in the bios its a secret in OS menu they tried to hide that i managed to find

[twin dew]

And have you updated the BIOS/UEFI?

[pure karma]

no updates available

[twin dew]

FD07 from 2024-10-17.

https://www.gigabyte.com/Laptop/G5--2024/support#support-dl-bios

[pure karma]

yea im allready on that one

but problems originate from even further

the oldest BSOD that shows up in bluescreen viewer for the same problem is from 2024-09-05 12:14:48 PM

[twin dew]

And how is me asking if you are on latest UEFI, related to when the first BSOD happened?

[pure karma]

just clears out that the problems were happening even before i updated it from F06

as much as i dont want to do it maybe i should just do a windows reinstall?

[twin dew]

Or contact that Gigabyte support and tell that you have laptop that has been BSODing since new, mainly when on battery?
And ask what to do to get the issue fixed?
Because for that, it is usually much easier if you have the stock Windows install still in use.

[pure karma]

oh they know. and there about to know more once they reply to my last question

[twin dew]

Or you think they know.

And the support person hasn't understood what you are trying to say.

[edgy hazel]

New monitor coming tomorrow 👀 hyped af

[tough owl]

I’m half tempted to buy a $230 4k 55in tv

That’s not too big for a tv right?

[jagged snow]

55 is reasonable I'd say

[pure karma]

decided to run the cpu stress test on occt again out of curiosity and in less than a minute it froze and then crashed (plugged in too)

[dire igloo]

Model?

[tough owl]

It’s a Walmart tcl special. So it’s not oled so a basic 4k and tbh it’s fine

[dire igloo]

Nvm, Acer Predator X34Vbmiiphuzx

[edgy hazel]

Ripp

[dire igloo]

Fuck's sake, go whitelist geizhals

geizhals.de/?cat=monlcd19wide&pg=1&v=e&hloc=de&sort=p&xf=11939_34~11955_OLED~14591_34401440~19417_QD-OLED

[twin dew]

So cheaped out version of some normal model, with parts switched to be cheaper for Walmart Special.

[tough owl]

Yessir 🫡

[edgy hazel]

Got it for 600

[dire igloo]

Nice

[verbal raft]

im curios,which uses more VRAM FSR FG or DLSS FG?

[stray badger]

Idk if either would use that much more vram

[midnight osprey]

Guy what’s a reasonable operating temp for my gpu when under load please?

[stray badger]

Below max

[twin dew]

Up to 95C usually, with preferrably less than 15C difference between hotspot and main temp, with hotspot not going over 110C

[midnight osprey]

Hmmm

My fans are starting to speak a lil

[stray badger]

Some older ones top out at 80c

[midnight osprey]

Squeak

[stray badger]

Perhaps clean it?

[midnight osprey]

I have the 6950xt. Is there a way I can test if my fans are spinning as fast as the pc is telling them to?

[jagged snow]

The reported speed is the actual speed they're going

*usually

[twin dew]

Yeah, easy to get the actual speed.
No easy way to get the wanted speed.

[midnight osprey]

Where is a good place to see fan speeds?

[twin dew]

Only the curve for temp to percentage of max voltage.

[midnight osprey]

I installed MSI afterburner. No clue how to use it yet.

[twin dew]

Almost any monitoring software, including AMD Software, Performance, Metrics.

[midnight osprey]

Have that too

[twin dew]

And the fan curve can be seen here:

[midnight osprey]

Ok. And app looks a lil more intuitive.

[twin dew]

On the Metrics, under the right side Tracking tab, you can select what to see, and then the Overlay you can configure overlay location etc.

ctrl+shift+o by default to enable and disable that overlay whenever.

Changeable in the Settings gear, Hotkeys

[midnight osprey]

sweet

I will launch a game I am familair with to test

then try again at this Division 2 ... was crazy laggy when first booting up but other games like Destiny 2 and my racing games like TDU run super smooth

[willow pike]

probably shader compilation

[midnight osprey]

even after turning all settings to minimum speck was only getting about 30fps

oooooooooh, hadn't thought of that!

[willow pike]

i don't know how the division 2 does it but ubisoft is shit tier developer who abuses the hell out their employees, so it probably doesn't precompile at all

[midnight osprey]

yes, not a huge fan of them either

I have 0 interest in any of their upcoming titles, lol

[willow pike]

but yeah use the amd control center to look at temperatures and fan speed

[midnight osprey]

of course a game needs a chunky update before I can test it, lolol

[willow pike]

lmao that'll mean you need to compile shaders all over again

[midnight osprey]

mother fucker ... overlay is hidden, lol

anyways, FPS hovered around 100fps

[twin dew]

Use that shortcut first one time, then second time if still didn't show.

[midnight osprey]

with half decent settings ... cannot remember what took it to custom

[twin dew]

Might take 5 seconds to appear

So don't do too fast.

[midnight osprey]

k

[twin dew]

Doesn't always update properly to new selected window or monitor.

[midnight osprey]

my SS is trolling me man, lol

nah, I cannot get that overlay

tried box, full screen, full desktop

[twin dew]

Ok, weird, but unfortunate.
Overlays have issues with some games or in some combinations.

[midnight osprey]

anyways the FPS remains consistent when I stay in the app

yeah

temp is about 65c ... fans about 1k

Sorry about the photo

do these metrics look ok @twin dew m8?

[twin dew]

Not showing the GPU hotspot, but otherwise very good?

[midnight osprey]

ok, will add that one for my next test

[twin dew]

Some limitation somewhere else than the GPU itself, as the usage is just 53%

100 FPS limiter?

[midnight osprey]

never had issues with destiny though tbh

always ran super smooth

never even bad low percentages or whatever that trerminology is

[midnight osprey]

hey bud ... is there a way to see if thats already completed?

[willow pike]

you'll know when the stuttering stops

[midnight osprey]

lmao

and it is meant to do that as the player starts the intro?

[tough owl]

I had a rare Microsoft store W today

On work computer I don’t have admin perms but needed vscode and python

[midnight osprey]

stupid fucking Ubisoft man

I was tempted just to refund the game, lol

[tough owl]

Microsoft store to the rescue

[midnight osprey]

I have always wondered, when alt tabbing ... is it normal for background apps to go super low frames?

and if so, anyway to make it run as though its still active?

[twin dew]

Depends on program.
Some intentionally do that, most don't.

[midnight osprey]

well, that framy issue was temp

must have been shaders

I have a can of compressed air. It spews chemicals a bit. lol

Is this bad for my components?

[twin dew]

Just liquid CO2

Or butane or whatever the thing actually contains.

[willow pike]

games can:

• compile in a big loading screen
• compile in the background on a separate thread
• not fucking bother and stutter every time something gets loaded

[midnight osprey]

I tried to clean it without removing it. I’m gonna have to be more thorough. This poor thing has been speaking for about a month now. lol

[twin dew]

So only if the stuff is some kind of solvent to whatever the part has.
So mainly try to not get the stuff on any rubber, seals etc.

[midnight osprey]

noted

[pure karma]

dont know why i even tried lol

[midnight osprey]

i hate that unhandled exeption, lol

such a pain for modded gameplay

[twin dew]

In this case basic Windows memory management stuff for the OS side crashed from corrupt pointer.

Not even in the Satisfactory code.

But got caught by the game.

So CPU or RAM

[pure karma]

i have to give some credit for it learning the problem and shutting down on its own by the like 4th incident

[midnight osprey]

what an improvement to my aim having 100fps again, lol

[tough owl]

/www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-365/link and then you need to pay MS $31 a month for 2cpu cores and 4gb ram to use their "cloud pc." Also keep in mind the basic version of windows 365 does meets the absolute minimum for windows 11 to run

[mental oriole]

What a joke.

[tough owl]

and at the most expensive tier with 4 vcpus and 16gb ram the most basic optiplex with 14500 and igpu will be cheaper for only 7 months

after 7 months the optiplex is cheaper

🥴

[mental oriole]

Ofc it's a fucking ripoff 🤣

[tough owl]

im trying to figure out what cpus they use for windows 365

[mental oriole]

Good question...

[tough owl]

internet says some kind of epycs

oh turns out its a dead link

[glossy glacier]

Depends in what Server has free resources atm

[tough owl]

windows 365 is just a stupid product

[mental oriole]

It is.

[tough owl]

🤢

[glossy glacier]

It has its uses. But way too expensive imo

[tough owl]

companies should just do it all locally on their own servers

its super easy to do and you wont have internet latency to deal with

"super" being relative

[glossy glacier]

At a certain size yes. If you just a small business its fine to outsource

[wanton orchid]

it's not

this gives incredible corruption power

[rustic panther]

"But the customer wants it in the cloud"

Well, you pay, we play

[jagged snow]

If you're just a small business you can do this with a thousand dollars worth of hardware

[safe trench]

cant they just self destruct it?

alll the data

since it has now internal storage

[tough owl]

Who knows what the internal storage is like. How much it is and if you can even access the bootloader/bios

Two videos I’ve watched today have ugreen sponsorships in them

[gilded helm]

I haven't seen anything today, but I definitely recall seeing Ugreen sponsorships out there recently.

[tough owl]

gonna see what the one in todays LTT is

[pure karma]

maybe im just too use to intel cpu's being voltage hogs but isent 0.6-0.8V fluctuation rather low voltage for a cpu running pinned? or am i just underestimating the voltage difference?

[jagged snow]

For that chip 800mv is more or less idle voltage

What's your windows power plan?

[pure karma]

hmmm... ok il write that down then

[pure karma]

its plugged in, laptop is set on performance mode, and windows power plan i believe is on performance unless it reverted back at some point

[twin dew]

ZyXEL firewalls would again need firewall before the firewall.

[languid gulch]

is there any life changing tech thing i could grab for USD$10

[gilded helm]

Screwdrivers?

Bits, more likely. A set of all the stupid obscure ones.

[languid gulch]

i've already got the big ifixit kit for that 🤣

[soft bloom]

anything what could safe your life: whistle, blanket, water filtration, medic kit etc (idk what will actually fit under $10)

[gilded helm]

I really like my USB rechargeable flashlights. I'm pretty sure I got a two pack for under $10. Make sure you get one with some kind of battery indicator. I doubt they would stand up to hundreds of hours of use, but as little as I use them I'm fine with how much I paid.

[soft bloom]

I htink i started feeling slowdown from reading from compressed http cache

although when unpacking zips made with lzma... well, it couldn't finish it - just stopped kinda midway with error

[tribal kraken]

Trying out satellite internet from A350 above Peking. About 800ms ping to my home server in Finland

[twin dew]

Going to GEO and back,.

Each way, so four times total.

[torn rover]

LMAO

[twin dew]

Thats very good result for GEO satellite internet.

[tribal kraken]

Somewhere arouna Almaty there were no connectivity, could not buy drinks from the seat because plane had no internet

Airspeed 980km/h 11800m altitude

[twin dew]

That is why Starlink is so revolutionary in the end.
When you compare it to that.

[torn rover]

mine isnt much better..

[twin dew]

Ping?
Try to play FPS with 1.5 seconds of latency XD

[torn rover]

lol

[twin dew]

Or even that about the absolute best case 0.8s

Even modems were only about 300-400ms, or early cellular internet.

Because that is what Starlink is actually competing against, GEO satellite internet, phone line modems and crappy long distance cellular connections.

[edgy hazel]

😦

[torn rover]

how

[twin dew]

By editing the page source on the fly?
Trivial to do

[edgy hazel]

My internet is bad 😢

[willow pike]

starlink will never beat gigabit fiber to the premises, but starlink only exists because y'all fuckers aren't building that

that it's somehow less economical to bury fiber in the ground than to use orbital rockets is a huge indictment of america

[midnight osprey]

I hear it costs billions to produce lay and maintain these connections that are sometimes crazy long. You also have the risk of military action that can prevent these important connectivity networks from running smoothly

Also, governments can push a button and turn the internet off for individuals, communities even their whole country.

I’m delighted other options are presenting themself.

[willow pike]

plenty of countries do FTTP

i have it myself

and you can absolutely jam starlink

[midnight osprey]

I’m sure that can be applied to all things. lol

[willow pike]

mostly america doesn't have fttp because the incumbent internet and cable companies make competition impossible. it's local monopolies all the way down, that not even google could defeat

[twin dew]

They could have, but that was the Be Evil Google already who then saw the actual quick enough ROI wasn't there with all the delays from the incumbitents, and them dropping prices very significantly in just the areas where Google finally got network up, so people didn't switch.

[willow pike]

yeah pretty much, lower prices to keep customers, starve the competition, then raise them back up when the newcomer is defeated

[twin dew]

And delay, delay, delay for the actual fiber pulls.

Because for some weird reason, for the shared poles, there isn't requirement to start from the HIGHEST position.
And working above someone elses wires isn't allowed.
So first need to get permissions for the route, then all the companies who already have infra in the poles need to move their stuff up one step, starting from the highest...
Before the new cables can be added.

And only that companys people could do the move, not just anyone...

With fuckton of time to do that move, so first lot of fighting to get the permissions etc. with all the others, then delay after delay when every company did their part of the pole moves as late as possible.

[willow pike]

an ouroboros of capitalism

and then there's the UK, which was building full fiber in the 80s along with japan and south korea, getting it cheaper than copper and manufacturing it for rollout to the whole country

until margaret thatcher killed it

[twin dew]

The big lie, that (local) monopolies are better to be handled by private companies over public companies.

Then sell to rich friends.

[twin dew]

Related to exactly that in UK:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rail-nationalisation-uk-labour-bill-lords-b2650736.html

[willow pike]

hell yeah

[verbal raft]

DEAR GOD

[tough owl]

looks playable

[soft bloom]

truly, returning of 2007

[stray badger]

It runs very well on my pc (at least the beginning of the game)

About 70ish fps at 1440p max settings tsr ultra quality

[verbal raft]

i get like 40 or so with quality upscale at 1080

but the VRAM isnt that bad

[languid gulch]

my introduction to modern era gaming was trying to play kerbal space program on a $400 laptop in like 2014

[visual tree]

Since I work for an ISP, I have a technical guide on how to install fiber on electrical poles which we pay rent to a utility company in cases when an area doesn't have our own poles. Low-voltage cables are always on the top and fiber cables are under the LV cables

Translated a guide using Google

EK cable - telco cable

[twin dew]

Yeah, but the point is that in the US system, there is minimum height from ground any of the wires can be.
And they start filling from the bottom, instead of the top.

[visual tree]

Btw, we rarely use other ISP's poles

[twin dew]

And each time new cables need to be added, everything else is first moved up.

[visual tree]

Yeah, that makes no sense

[twin dew]

Probably originally about having maximum distance between phone lines and AC cables.
But then got corrupted into anticompetitive tactic.

[visual tree]

Also, we mostly use Huawei OLT but recently started ordering Nokia OLT because EU might completely ban Huawei telco equipment

[twin dew]

But point is, US had very weird now intentionally anticompetitive way on how multiple different companies wires, cables and equipment are added to shared poles.

Where all previous occupants need to move their shit up a slot each time new company comes along.

[visual tree]

Glad we don't have that here. I can only Imagine the nightmare lol

[twin dew]

And no, it just cannot be done by the new entrant hiring lisenced people to do it.
Need to be each companys "own" people.
Even when the new entrant would in actuality hire the exact same contractor to do it.

And each step gets multiple months for their part, and next companys time doesn't start before previous one has done their part.

Some work happening on legistlative level to get out of the logjam:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Touch_Make_Ready

[visual tree]

That would be a nightmare since almost all ISP's here have contractors because there are not enough technicians (ISP employees) to do the work

Btw, I hate new modems which are given to customers. You can no longer login to modem website and modify settings, it can only be done through a mobile app

Not to mention mobile app settings have been drastically reduced to most basic settings possible....

Good thing is you can still use your own equipment though

[stray badger]

Its pretty cpu heavy iirc

[willow pike]

i would throw that shit in the trash

[visual tree]

Good thing I don't have that crap

*yet

[glass panther]

I'm assuming the people in here are more likely to be old enough to get the reference I just posted in memes

also I feel old just by looking when the reference was from 😭

[night girder]

Here, the goverment finally said that ISP must allow costumers to buy their own modems.

Now, we are forced to take modem/router from ISP.

[visual tree]

We recently introduced the same law from the beggining of 2024 (Google translate): "(3) Operators of publicly available electronic communication services in fixed networks are obliged to enable end-users to use their own terminal equipment for using the broadband Internet access service instead of the operator's equipment. All necessary data for connecting their own equipment must be publicly available to the end users, and if it is necessary for the end users to submit data on the equipment due to the interoperability check, the data delivery process must be clearly stated. In exceptional and justified cases, operators may require the use of their own network terminal (ONT) when providing services via the fiber optic network."

I like ONT + router combo instead of a modem with integrated ONT

Since you can just plug your own router to ONT

[night girder]

Sad it had to come to this. ISP companies knew well enough this was bullshit. It was just convenient for them. And extra money.

Somebody I knew, had to test the first routers/modems of my ISP. And what they told me, that it was a freaking rip off.

This ugly thing.

And the hardware that really was in it, wasn't worth the money we had to pay.

[visual tree]

Oh, I had a lot of crap adsl modems in the past

I hated this one the most

[night girder]

Atleast it kinda looks alright.

[visual tree]

I am still waiting for fiber and hopefully I will get it Q1 or early Q2 of 2025

ISP had to wait for a building permit since they are going to do micro trenching on the road

[night girder]

I am probably in a resting home by the time fiber is rolled out.

but like I am happy with the current speed 🙂

Fiber would be convenient so I don't have to wait for hours to download some games 😉

[visual tree]

Guess I should be lucky for having these speeds on copper:

[night girder]

Two weeks ago on a sunday, I wanted to play MHW again, it was 100GB 😦

By the evening it was downloaded and I didn't play

[visual tree]

I remember downloading Starfield took me around 3 to 4 hours (also around 100 GB)

[night girder]

Yeah, I am not happy with ISP here.

The thing is, they get away with price/speed they offer now.

51.94 dollar 😒

[visual tree]

💀

I pay €28 for copper but the price is also the same if you have fiber (300 Mbit/s download and 150 Mbit/s upload)

[night girder]

It's for 60MBPS or more. Which makes it not that good as a source.

[visual tree]

500 Mbit is €30 and 1 Gbit is €32

What speeds do you have on copper btw?

[night girder]

Down: 84.9Mb/s and UP: 27.6Mb/s is what ISP promises. Costs me 85.68 euro. But when I run speedtest:

[visual tree]

Omg, €85 for that 👀

At this point 4G/5G would most likely be faster but don't know how much it costs

[night girder]

It's a bundle. Because we have to do that too.

So I also have TV, but I never watch it.

Still expensive for what I get.

[dire igloo]

run bufferbloat

[twin dew]

Very crappy router.

[night girder]

So, what the website tells me, is to get router with Smart Queue Management.

But since that is CPU heavy, also with a good CPU.

[twin dew]

Nah, just one that doesn't have excessive sized buffers.

Some router manufacturers think that "you must never drop packets", when TCP is designed to react to dropped packets as showing you hit the bandwidth limit.

[night girder]

The easiest and quickest way for most people to fix bufferbloat is to upgrade their WiFi router. A small number of modern, high-end routers come with a feature called "Smart Queue Management" – also known as SQM. We've collected a short list of routers with good SQM here. Once enabled and configured correctly, a router with SQM can get rid of most bufferbloat.

There are many different versions of SQM, and some are more effective than others. If you are replacing an old router, any new router with a decent SQM implementation should show a substantial improvement.

But if you have a fast Internet connection, and want to get to an A+ grade, it's important to pick a router with a great SQM implemention and a fast CPU.** SQM is quite CPU-intensive**, so the faster your internet connection, the faster the CPU of your router will need to be in order to keep up.

[twin dew]

And you get that.

[twin dew]

That is very bad advice.
Trying to bandaid the issue with packet priorization.

[dire igloo]

ignore what the site tells you except from the raw data

[night girder]

hackaday tells me the same:

The solution is Smart Queue Management. There’s a lot of work that’s been done on this concept since 1986. Fair queuing was one of the first solutions, making intermediary buffers smart, and splitting individual traffic flows into individual queues. When the link was congested, each queue would release a single packet at a time, so downloading an ISO over Bittorrent wouldn’t entirely crowd out your VoIP traffic. After many iterations, the the CAKE algorithm has been developed and widely deployed. All of these solutions essentially trade off a little bit of maximum throughput in order to ensure significantly reduced latency.

[twin dew]

When you don't need any of that if the router just starts dropping packets when it cannot deliver them right away.

[night girder]

source: hackaday.com/2022/08/18/bufferbloat-the-internet-and-how-to-fix-it/

[twin dew]

Again, trying to priorize what to drop.
When any of that isn't needed in most cases, just dropping everything equally works fine.

For that upload.

Having good priorization then can help in not having dropouts in the VoIP or like outgoing traffic, when the connections is overloaded.
But absolutely isn't needed to not get buffer bloat.

[soft bloom]

Did i actually stumble on a usecase for those fancy graph/node databases?

[twin dew]

And should only be ADDITIONAL thing over not having excessive buffering.

Basically if router, switch or other network device buffers anything over few tens of ms. then it is broken.

But that is VERY common today with consumer stuff for some stupid reason, to that 1500ms level (1.5s worth of buffering)

[night girder]

Third website:

Bufferbloat creates a situation where network buffers become overloaded, causing delays for all data packets, regardless of their importance. QoS helps mitigate bufferbloat by performing the following methods:

Traffic Classification: QoS allows you to categorize different types of traffic on your network. Common categories include real-time applications (video calls, online gaming), streaming services (YouTube, Netflix), web browsing, and file downloads.
Prioritization: Once traffic is classified, you can define priority levels for each category. For instance, real-time applications that require a steady data flow for smooth operation can be set to high priority. Less time-sensitive tasks like file downloads can be assigned lower priority.
Smart Queuing: With priorities established, QoS implements smart queuing mechanisms within the network buffers. High-priority traffic packets are placed at the front of the queue, ensuring they are processed first and experience minimal delays. Lower-priority traffic waits behind, but won't excessively delay the high-priority packets.

Interesting.

[twin dew]

Like I said, trying to still keep every packet in flight, and not drop anything.
But prioritize the "important" / latency sensitive packets to jump the queue.

[night girder]

This is new territory to me.

[twin dew]

And that is the wrong solution.
TCP/IP is designed to aggressively drop packets when link gets overloaded, so that the endpoints know to throttle the traffic.

Without that dropping, the buffer will just keep filling and filling, if it wasn't just some very short burst.

That priorization then comes on TOP of that, to start dropping stuff from the important stuff last.
But if the buffers are overlarge, that is just bad bandaid.

[night girder]

source was: www.zenarmor.com/docs/network-basics/what-is-bufferbloat

[twin dew]

Because something seems to have been lost somewhere.
And "don't drop anything" has taken over.
Which just doesn't work.

[night girder]

I don't fully understand what you think is the correct solution Baldur.

My interpretation is that you disagree with what the internet suggests as a solution?

And like I said before, bufferbloat is total new concept to me.

[twin dew]

Point is, the base problem isn't lack of priorization, like all those seem to suggest.
The base problem is routers with too large buffers.
That they don't start dropping data soon enough, and instead only do that once the giant buffer memory fills up.
After 1.5s of traffic is in it in your routers case.

[dire igloo]

no, the internet's solution isn't applicable to your problem

[twin dew]

When it should start dropping it once there are few tens of microseconds worth of waiting outgoing traffic in there.

As max.

[edgy hazel]

@dire igloo OLED is fucking sick dude

[jagged snow]

Which can occur with routers designed for high traffic without proper checks and mitigations

But yeah, bad router design

[dire igloo]

ikr

[glossy glacier]

i agree

[twin dew]

Then those various priorization algorithms can be used to select WHICH traffic is dropped first.

[night girder]

The base problem is routers with too large buffers.

That's literally something hackaday mentions:

The Internet has evolved a bit since 1986. One of the things that’s changed is that the price of hardware has come down, and capabilities have gone up dramatically. A gateway from 1986 would measure its buffer in kilobytes, and less than 100 at that. Today, it’s pretty trivial to throw megabytes and gigabytes of memory at problems, and router buffers are no exception. What happens when algorithms written for 50 KB buffer sizes are met with 50 MB buffers in modern devices? Predictably, things go wrong.

[twin dew]

But just slapping priorization on router with giant buffers isn't the solution.

[night girder]

Ooh, I follow you.

but how do you know it's not a buffer issue?

[twin dew]

Point is that the firmware of the device should use time based limits, not buffer filling up, to start dropping traffic.

[jagged snow]

Lots of buffer should only ever be used when there is very high throughput

[edgy hazel]

increasing ethernet frames should be a movement

[twin dew]

Because with 1Gb/s connection, you need much larger buffer than with 5Mb/s connection, to have same time amount of data in them.

[dire igloo]

basically, it's this.
your problem: router keeps filling its buffer to the limit
internet's solution: get a router that allows you to select which packets to drop

this sounds like the right approach at first, but you can keep the buffer in check without having to prioritize what to keep - simply by dropping everything equally

[twin dew]

Right solution is to choose router with proper implementation of the buffer management, so it does that time based limiting.

If it also has good QOS implementation, then even better, but that is just add-on.

[night girder]

What feature drops all packages? So I know what to look for when buying new router?

[jagged snow]

And good qos with badly behaving buffer can cause unexpected and undesired behavior on clients when they might otherwise compensate

[night girder]

Or what is the right implementation of buffer management.

[jagged snow]

You can also probably try open firmware if your router is supported

[night girder]

ISP router, that's how we got to this conversation 😉

[twin dew]

Basically getting router that had good buffer bloat results even without QOS.
And if it has good QOS, then even better.

[jagged snow]

Ahh, missed the beginning

[night girder]

Normally next year, I can buy my own router. Since ISP have to stop forcing their own.

[night girder]

Thanks, can work with this information.

[twin dew]

Basically my ISP has too large buffers before my own link:

[night girder]

Problem is: ISP will provide a list of modems that I can use. So I hope there is a good one in it.

Not sure if list is available yet, let me check.

Oh btw, I do have a switch: modem -> switch -> PC. Can that cause extra buffer bloat?

[twin dew]

My own Debian router has CAKE with source-ip:port-destination-ip:port and QOS with bandwidth limiting to 45Mb/s set.
To get that +0 ms.

When the actual max upload is about 50Mb/s.

As in just using standard QOS-headers, not trying to do anything weird to detect what might be important.

[night girder]

Ok, specifications from ISP are:

• VLAN Tagging op de WAN-interface
• DHCPv4 (rfc 2131 en rfc 2132)
• SLAAC (rfc 4862)
• DHCPv6 (rfc8415, rfc3319, rfc3646, rfc4704, rfc5007 en rfc6221)
• IPv6 prefix-delegatie
• ARP (rfc 826)

[twin dew]

So basically anything.

[visual tree]

Not great, not terrible (tested on ISP modem)

[night girder]

And also this:

De volgende functies moeten worden ondersteund door de router:
• DHCPv4 Optie Spoofing: Opties die aan de WAN-kant worden ontvangen, moeten via DHCPv4 worden
doorgegeven aan de decoder op het LAN.
• DHCPv6 Option Spoofing (niet gebruikt door de huidige TV-dienst, zal in de toekomst worden gebruikt).
• IGMP Snooping (Idealiter v3 maar werkt ook met v2).
• MLD v2 Snooping (niet gebruikt door de huidige TV-dienst, zal in de toekomst worden gebruikt).
De router:
• moet het ook mogelijk maken dat de volgende Private IP-ranges worden bereikt op het WAN:
172.28.40.0/21 en 172.28.48.0/21.
• moet het ook mogelijk maken dat de volgende Multicast-ranges worden gebruikt op het WAN:
239.192.0.0/16 en 239.255.0.0/16.
• mag geen impact hebben op de DSCP-tags die betrekking hebben op de decoder in upstream.

Else the TV wont work

[twin dew]

Had to stop using one TP-Link switch, as it had too large buffers and it caused buffer bloat inside the LAN in some situations.

[night girder]

DHCPv4 forwarding to decoder over LAN.

Same for DHCPv6 for the future.

[twin dew]

Or just having single port be bridged instead of routed.

[night girder]

and some snooping stuff. And IP ranges for WAN.

[visual tree]

Oh damn, I have some small tp-link switch on my desk 😅

[night girder]

What the hell are DSCP tags on decoder upstream?

[twin dew]

QOS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differentiated_services

One version.

[pure karma]

i cant lie i expected better than a D

[twin dew]

But basically the ISP throttling to lower my connection down from native 1Gb/s to 50Mbit/s is causing download buffering.

[dire igloo]

go look at the values at the bottom

[visual tree]

Since Baldur mentioned a switch, I should try connecting a laptop directly to a modem and run the test again, wonder what the results will be

[dire igloo]

rating is too volatile, the data is more reliable

[twin dew]

The values show up, lot of extra latency on the download.
And as that is on the ISP end, there is nothing you as user can do.

And it is all over the place in that.

Might enable the "AutoRateIngress" for that CAKE, so it starts dropping incoming packets too, even when they already got into my own network, to get around that ISP problem...

[night girder]

my switch might have QOS

[mental oriole]

I got D. But to my defense my router is old af 😄

[twin dew]

Most do some version or other today.
If "dumb", might have fixed header based, or port based.
If manageable, then usually configurable to either with more options.

[pure karma]

thats the thing my router is older than me

[twin dew]

But basically any Asus router for example has IIRC worked correctly for buffering etc.

Don't know about other current manufacturers, as been using Asus for people as they have long firmware supports etc. in most cases.

[night girder]

Oh boy ... ok. Yeah. It has QOS. But pretty advanced.

[twin dew]

But their DSL models are crap for the DSL modem part.

Usable, but need manual tuning to not drop connection from trying to use too tight SNR.

[night girder]

Under QOS it has COS and DiffServ.

and I think I can set up queue for my ports with a scheduler type and queue mangement type.

[twin dew]

COS is that old original type, and DiffServ is the current replacement.
And then there are two others that use bits in VLAN header too.

COS is mostly useful for managed networks to include the information from the first switch for the whole route about how important "port" the traffic came from.

So switch ports for VoIP phone will add higher priority tag and the traffic will then get higher priority inside the controlled network.

[night girder]

Gotcha.

[twin dew]

And that DiffServ is more software level, where the sending computer already tags the data.

[night girder]

I am not sure, but right now all portsd are weighted scheduler type, taildrop mangement type and queue ID 0.

have to look into tomorrow.

[twin dew]

Doesn't really matter inside most LANs

home lans

Only time it matters if some of the network cables would need to carry more than the max amount of data.

[night girder]

So it cannot help to improve my F grade? 😂

[twin dew]

No

Just about for example having two computers on 1Gb/s connections trying to talk to same NAS with also 1Gb/s connection.
Or for priorizing traffic for "trunk" connection (between two switches).

[night girder]

shit, my ISP only has high level technical specification of routers. Not a list with suggestions. Ofc they not making it easy for us.

[twin dew]

So if you have two computers connected to same switch, then cable from that to second switch, that then has the internet router and NAS both connected to it.
And one computer wants to talk to the NAS, and another to Internet, so you could depriorize the NAS traffic for example.

As that cable between the two switches would be chokepoint.

That port based priorization tagging could of course then be used by the router to priorize the outgoing traffic too, if configured in compatible way.

But doesn't really help in this case either.

[night girder]

This is real technical stuff.

[twin dew]

Yup.
Which is why just getting router that doesn't do stupid stuff with too big buffers is the easy way.

[night girder]

What a dick move from my ISP. Get forced to open up to other routers. And make it super complicated so nobody willb other with it and stick with their modems/routers.

[twin dew]

Not trying to get QOS to work properly.

[night girder]

Nah, I meant the specs from my ISP.

It's pages of that stuff.

And on that you have to buy a router. The information I send you before was for fiber router.

What the hell is a minimal starting frequence FOL >= 120

[twin dew]

Because that is directly the list they send to router manufacturers when they have competition on who will provide the next "stock" one.

[night girder]

You know... super technical stuff.. Just so costumers don't buy their own hardware.

The other ISP (Telenet) has a list with routers on their website from 3rd companies.

But mine is playing dirty it seems.

[dire igloo]

Fritzbox my beloved

[twin dew]

But basically all the Chinese ones are crap in one way or other (Huawei, TP-Link consumer models etc), Zyxels have very short supports and lot of security problems.
Don't know that much about others.
Been using Asuses, but for that IPTV stuff etc. they might need excessive configuring without documentation etc.

Because the easy way for that on Asus routers is just to set specific port as "IPTV" port, where it is basically bridged when rest are routed.

But that needs for the ISP to give multiple IPs to work.

[night girder]

I think I might contact BIPT and file a complaint. BIPT are the ones regulating this new law. And clearly, my ISP is playing dirty.

[twin dew]

They do support those multicast snoopings etc, but not sure if they support multicast routing.

[dire igloo]

look up AVM for routers/modems

[visual tree]

Can confirm this worked when I had IPTV. Basically just set ISP modem to bridge mode and set port 4 on my own asus router to IPTV port. Everything worked fine without messing with the settings

[twin dew]

All the Finnish ISPs stopped using Multicast for IPTV, and switched back to Unicast.

[twin dew]

Yeah, it works great if the ISP gives that second direct IP for the TV.

But not all do.

Or not sure if it does more with that.

Did use the same solution at fathers place when Elisa still used Multicast for IPTV.

[visual tree]

I had some shitty TP-Link before and I couldn't setup IPTV passthrough no matter what I tried

[twin dew]

But Finnish ISPs give up to 5 public dynamic IPs.

[night girder]

Interesting, fritzbox is certified by my ISP.

[visual tree]

fritzbox is only given to business clients here 😦

[twin dew]

Too expensive.
But usually good devices AFAIK, if the provided model doesn't have cripled locked down ISP specific firmware.

But don't know enough, as there are multiple models and they aren't really sold or used in Finland.

[night girder]

Well, problem is, it's not easy for me to find out which routers/modems will work with my ISP. If it's certified, I know it will work.

[glossy glacier]

FritzBoxen are quite decent. but if you want advanced features they fall a bit short.
still very good package overall

[twin dew]

Yeah, and this case just not suffering from BufferBloat is the main requirement, and still work with the ISP IPTV etc.

[visual tree]

Confirmed, no fritzbox for private customers 😦

[dire igloo]

they're readily available on the used market and they have specific product IDs for IP-locked or not

[glossy glacier]

the spikes ruin the score 😦

[twin dew]

Because they are significantly more expensive than the cheap chinese crap.

[visual tree]

Google translate: Standard bakery 🤣

It was supposed to be translated to standard copper

Private customers usually get Technicolor modems on fiber or Arcadyan modems on copper

Quick googling says the french company is behind technicolor

[twin dew]

Just rebadged chinese stuff almost certainly.

[visual tree]

Arcadyan is from Taiwan and tbh It's better than Technicolor (I have VRV9518BAAX24-B-2C model)

[visual tree]

I wouldn't be surprised

[twin dew]

NetworkCtl isn't taking the CAKE config changes on just reload :/

SystemD bug that had fix merged in september.

[night girder]

TP-Link Tri-Band BE19000 this one should work. Costs 350 euros though.

[twin dew]

All the TP-Link consumer routers need cloud account today AFAIK.

[night girder]

Nevermind.

[twin dew]

Very recent change.

[night girder]

And 350 is too much. In the specs I keep reading "be sure to have this because in the future we are ...". So I don't wan to spend too much.

So if my ISP changes the requirements and there are some features I want, I don't lose too much money when buying new modem/router.

[night girder]

speaking of forcing your costumers to have an account, NVIDIA did the same for that geforce now experience.

Every x weeks, I had to enter my account information for it to keep working. So happy that AMD doesn't demand that.

[mental oriole]

Guess why I stopped using it.

[twin dew]

And it is even worse, cloud access to configs etc.
With Chinese company.

[night girder]

TP Link is chinese?

[twin dew]

Yes.

[night girder]

I am good.

[twin dew]

AFAIK

In theory US, in practice Chinese.

[night girder]

How does that work?

[twin dew]

TP-Link is an American-incorporated Chinese company that manufactures network equipment and smart home products. The company was established in 1996 in China, and transferred ownership out of the country in a series of corporate restructurings in 2022–2024.

[night girder]

So owned by the US but based in China?

Or something like that?

[twin dew]

Owned by chinese, based in US.
With all real functions in China.

[night girder]

Dang.

[twin dew]

I would expect.

They try to seem like being full blown US company now.
But that kind of split from China is impossible if the owners don't move themselves and all their expanded family out of China.

[visual tree]

I apologize to the whole tech community for making a disgraceful decision and buying a TP-Link product. This will not happen again, I promise! 👼

[twin dew]

Just need to be aware.
That cloud configuration was step too far for even home use.

[visual tree]

Nothing good comes from tp-link

[twin dew]

Their Omada-line low-end enterprise products are pretty good and very price competitive even with other companies consumer products.

And don't have that cloud account shit etc.

But still wouldn't use them in place that might be of interest for the Chinese government.

[visual tree]

I am probably getting Cloud Gateway Max next year when my home finally gets connected to fiber

Already have U6+ access point whch has great coverage compared to those crap routers with integrated wifi

[buoyant orchid]

hello this is a bit random but i wanted to know what people think about this deal as im getting a new pc soon
https://www.amazon.com/iBUYPOWER-TraceMesh-Computer-Desktop-TMI7N46T01/dp/B0CRSZGN9L/ref=asc_df_B0CRSZGN9L?mcid=10401766def73964800ec880c646761a&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693611984331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=25844059558385179&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026243&hvtargid=pla-2294324155178&th=1

[night girder]

I am not an expert in buildings PC's but I know some people in here can help you out. They will probably ask for more information.

Your budget, currency, and country.
The purpose of the build such as playing competitive shooters at 1080p/modern AAA games at 1440p/3D rendering in blender/editing 1h long videos at 4k in premiere.
Do you need peripherals, monitors, and/or wifi connectivity? If you don't, link your current monitor. If you do, give us the total budget with peripherals in mind.
Aesthetical preferences such as case color and amount of rgb. Linking a case you like can be helpful.

[willow pike]

that cpu will die without proper bios updates and settings

[buoyant orchid]

budget like 1k(for the pc itself), euros, germany, playing all kinds of games, dont have a monitor yet, using wifi, dont care about the looks as long as it works

[willow pike]

and yet it's weirdly cpu heavy compared to the gpu

better to get cheaper cpu and better gpu

[night girder]

I am not sure about that CPU cooler either.

[willow pike]

oh lmao I didn't even see

yeah naw that's not enough

it's also a dead socket with no upgrade path

[night girder]

their site says for that model:

Processor Cooling:
RGB CPU Tower Air Cooler

But no brand or model.

[willow pike]

that is not a tower air cooler

looks like a stock cooler or a knock-off

[stray badger]

not a great cooler fs

[night girder]

and for that price, if you buy extra cooler it adds to the cost.

[stray badger]

but also, GN has shown how bad ibuypower is in terms of quality

[willow pike]

a 14700F absolutely needs a bigger cooler

[stray badger]

they managed to bend a CPU

[willow pike]

and i can't recommend a 14700 anyway

[night girder]

@buoyant orchid Do you want to buy prebuilt PC?

[buoyant orchid]

as i have no idea what im doing that would probably be bette yes

[stray badger]

i dont remember what brands make good budget builds

thermaltake makes prebuilts now? interesting

[night girder]

a lot of prebuilts that I find seem to have 4060 TI 8GB

for that price range

[buoyant orchid]

is that good or bad?

i mean the 4060 is good but i mean that alot of prebuilts have that in my price range

i would pay more but i currently only have 1k after 5 years of saving

[night girder]

Well I said that because whyzenman suggested a better GPU, but that's not easy to find it seems.

[buoyant orchid]

yup

at max i can maybe put on another 100 euros

[gilded helm]

Prebuilt desktops are so bad that if you don't already have the monitor, it's often just as good to consider a laptop. Neither likely has anything worth upgrading anyway.

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

But you make a good point, you can consider buying a gaming laptop.

[gilded helm]

It's the end of a product cycle, 4070 laptops have reached very low prices in some places. Look for anything recommended by JarrodTech.

[willow pike]

fuckin 4060 is a bullshit gpu that was never liked for its entire life yet it tops the steam charts because of bullshit prebuilts like this

i hate computers

[gilded helm]

And game developers are going to be stuck optimizing for 8 GB for many more years as a result

[night girder]

This prebuilt has 4070, but is also ibuypower so ... https://www.amazon.com/iBUYPOWER-Computer-Desktop-SMI7N47S01-GeForce/dp/B0DDZ3HBYX/

And more expensive.

Does seems to have a CPU tower cooler and not stock.

Here is a review about iBUYPOWER prebuilt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDRiakWcIM

[willow pike]

that's a yikes

nobuypower

[night girder]

Could be unlucky product. But still, I would be careful.

but that this got passed QA. Half the screws are lose 😂

[stray badger]

seriously, 8gb?

[safe trench]

the fact that user bench mark calls

amd

advanced marketing devices

is diabolical

[stray badger]

userbenchmark has been on crack copium for some time

[safe trench]

whats next? call people who bought amd cpus brain dead morons?

[stray badger]

they did

theyve been doing this for about 5 years now

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/my-love-live-reaction-tongue-thats-what-she-said-gif-12867450697863732817

[safe trench]

sounds like ksp making a trump joke

[safe trench]

cannot wait for them to say

advanced moron devices

bibcally acurate future predictions

[willow pike]

userbenchmark is so shitass, intel are embarrassed by them

[languid gulch]

ever since ryzen started scaring intel

[willow pike]

when first gen ryzen came out, first non-HEDT eight core 16 thread, userbenchmark immediately changed all performance metrics to heavily favour 1 or 2 threaded tasks

[languid gulch]

<-1700X owner

[willow pike]

they had been praising intel for years before that without any pushback cause AMD FX was godawful

[languid gulch]

tbf tho 1st gen ryzen didn't really scare intel that much, more like a "whatcha doing over there?"

3rd gen made them panic

[safe trench]

its so pathetic

sometime despite how bias you are you just have to admit the competiton is winning

[willow pike]

they will never

[safe trench]

exactly

[languid gulch]

i just really wanna know why they decided to go all in on it

[safe trench]

but dude

[willow pike]

at this point i don't even think they're paid shills anymore

it's too far

[safe trench]

even after intel fails and goes bankrupt

they are in some deep lucid fever dream

and are going to make up random new intel cpus that are "Real" and say they are better than amd

[willow pike]

nah the us government would bail them out (... okay I don't actually know if that's true anymore shit is gonna get WEIRD)

[languid gulch]

i wonder if it's political, like they're a chinese national & they're supposed to be allergic to anything out of taiwan

[safe trench]

LOL

[willow pike]

lmao

[languid gulch]

i mean, it really feels like that kind of vitriol

[willow pike]

like... who hurt you, my dude

[safe trench]

its either he has a high ego

[willow pike]

high on something

[safe trench]

or suffered a serve concusion

[languid gulch]

or if they're heavily invested in intel stock, even if it's clear that intel disavows them

[safe trench]

hey, maybe an intel cpu fell on his head while he was getting up one day
just like how plainrock is a huge apple fan (joke)

[willow pike]

man i knew amd were gonna go big in 2017, wish I had the spare cash at the time to invest in their stock

[languid gulch]

i mean, they couldn't have gotten much worse than FX 🤣

[safe trench]

bro wth are these results for ub?

ryzen man is correct, they are high on sum dat yummy crack
(i do not endorse using drugs)

[willow pike]

ah yes, nuclear subs can run crysis

it's a shame UB doesn't review their server products, I'd love to see them shit on MI300 or big up whatever server bullshit intel hasn't cancelled yet (i legit cannot keep track)

[safe trench]

bro intel names suck

[languid gulch]

amd names suck too

[safe trench]

like

acutal number generator with a random letter on their keyboard at the end

intel core i9 14900-ks

[languid gulch]

amd igpu names are impossible to figure out

[willow pike]

amd are no better

[safe trench]

i know that my self because i suffer with one.

ok this guy is on weed

[willow pike]

Ryzen AI 9 370 HX

[willow pike]

he is absolutely not chill enough for that

[willow pike]

you sunk my battleship

[safe trench]

omg! thats because i was using the ryzen ai 9 370 hx!

how could you tell!

[languid gulch]

the sad thing is that so long as you get the actual metrics & comparisons right, having a bit of fun with some kind of "is this a potato or a nuclear sub" goofball stuff would actually be endearing

[willow pike]

sad thing is it's a good chip but they had to put the fuckin AI in the name

[willow pike]

yeah, but it's opaque so he can fudge it to be whatever he wants

CPU gerrymandering

[languid gulch]

yup

which makes it annoying, not endearing

[safe trench]

ok guys i have an idea for the next amd cpu

[willow pike]

honestly i just want one-quarter of an MI300

[safe trench]

AI Ryzen 5247242U Ultra Low Power Zen 5456 695995 Cores UZH Core Ultra 8490XDI

matching with the theme?

[willow pike]

plz no

god at least they didn't call their cpu core

[languid gulch]

lol

[safe trench]

fixed?

[willow pike]

thanks I hate it

[safe trench]

np!

[languid gulch]

ok that'd be fucking hilarious, if amd decided to start using the Core naming scheme

[willow pike]

just give me the CPU bit of this

[safe trench]

i killed chat.

[pure karma]

with too much idiot inside

[languid gulch]

oh sorry, came across a local story that i had to share with family

[gilded helm]

Battlemage has a product page on amazon.com

https://videocardz.com/newz/asrock-arc-b580-has-been-leaked-first-battlemage-graphics-card-features-12gb-vram

Link to the Amazon page within the little bit of editorializing.

I'm betting on a paper launch, given Arrow Lake's paper launch.

[languid gulch]

yup

also i'm thinking they'll keep it quiet until they know it's not crap

[gilded helm]

I think we've all had best wishes for Intel GPUs up to this point, but I don't think AMD GPU prices would be any different if Alchemist hadn't come out. Let alone Nvidia.

[languid gulch]

not to mention the fact that it ate into AMD's market share, & basically none of Nvidia's

[gilded helm]

If Alchemist gets us to a worthwhile Battlemage then it'll be worth it. But what should have happened is Alchemist should have been called DG2, and Battlemage should be Alchemist.

[languid gulch]

agreed

[soft bloom]

Why would game revert to doing that broken black dots on white screen thing after reinstallation?

[twin dew]

Disable FSR?

For Satisfactory, with AMD Radeon 5000-series, you WILL get those when FSR is enabled.

[soft bloom]

i mean, i leave it in working condition, come back later and... it breaks

although... my AMD PRO software/driver whatever magically reverted to Adrenaline edition from 20204aug27 . so idk now, maybe it screwed itself

(and now it doesn't support separate settings for games! shitty)

[twin dew]

Why are you trying to use the Pro driver?

[soft bloom]

also i'm getting weirdly long save load time

[soft bloom]

as i was saying - it just worked better like year ago or around that. so i kept using it

[soft bloom]

i don't undertand why i have memory and turning it off sovled it, but turning back on also was fine? well, not anymore

[soft bloom]

is this UE5.3 thing ?

i really don't get why this is not a case for The Talos Principle 2

[twin dew]

Something in the combination of Satisfactory 1.0, FSR3.0 included in it, and current AMD drivers for Radeon 5000-series.

It can get "fixed" from being constant, to only happening for some things.
But it cannot be currently fully fixed user side.

So only way to not get it at times at least, is to just not use FSR for Satisfactory on Radeon 5000

[soft bloom]

does SF override supersampling set from GPU driver?
I remember like a year ago i found that I wont get those performance-drop-switches if set FSR ingame.
now that's out of question. and for some reason setting FSR in driver has no impact at all

[twin dew]

WTF are you trying to do?
Supersampling AA means rendering the frame at higher resolution and scaling down.
FSR and like mean rendering the frame at lower resolution and scaling up.
Why the fuck would you try to combine them?

[soft bloom]

sorry i mean super resolution

[twin dew]

Same thing

On SSAA 2x, on Full-HD monitor, you are rendering 4k and downsampling.

[soft bloom]

that is upscaling, just. no render at higehr resolution

[twin dew]

No, just the opposite.

It is rendering at higher resolution and downscaling to monitor.

Ah, sorry, seems I was wrong when I check the ?

[soft bloom]

uh, pretty sure no downscaling to monitor involved

[twin dew]

AMD had almost similarly named option before to do SSAA on any game.

[soft bloom]

it's pretty much FSR you enable in driver

[soft bloom]

yep it is a mess

[twin dew]

Ah, still in, in the Display part, Virtual Super Resolution

[soft bloom]

but i didn't see super resolution in driver for long time

[soft bloom]

oh, because that's for DIsplay

anyway, somehow this doesn't seem to affect anything

[twin dew]

And is constant SSAA basically.
Driver lying that the monitor resolution is higher than it is, and downscaling.

[soft bloom]

(changing level of RSR)

[soft bloom]

i think i used it when had FHD monitor, hehe

[twin dew]

If you use one of those higher resolutions.

[soft bloom]

so game renders in 1440p; borderless
and adjusting that slider doesn't change the frametime (that is just devastated)

[twin dew]

And why would AMD drivers do worse universal FSR pass (without motion vectors etc.) on finished rendered frame from game that has internal FSR support?

[soft bloom]

because interal FSR support is, well, broken

fyi rn it's disabled ingame

i think RHIT shouldn't be that high

[twin dew]

But this is completely wrong place for this. #1038092680493801533
And as your whole setup seems to be cursed in the way you have configured, would need the exact details on what driver version you are on etc.

[soft bloom]

i strted here cause i want to understand details that are not unique for the game

before going for the standard driver reset routine

[twin dew]

You got some forced driver downgrade, which fucked up everything?
And need to do DDU, WU driver install, manual driver upgrade?

With combined games own shader cache cleanup by deleting specific file in Saved

[soft bloom]

1. one day i just noticed that despite still having blue icon it opens Adrenaline edition, yes. aka I didn't do that downgrade (although idk if it actually is older version - it seems older thatn what i had... would need a check)

2 is that a question? 🙂

[twin dew]

Not really.

[soft bloom]

F, i do need to start a #1038092680493801533 thread

[twin dew]

Or just do those steps I gave, and only do that if they didn't help.

[soft bloom]

so turns out i needed to restart the game for driver's rsoltuion to kick in

weird thing is how inconsistent are these problems and effect from cahnges in driver & settings.

if i will get new problem i will do those steps and report to new thread

for now i will say that after that restart RHIT is under 10ms now, green

[glossy glacier]

I think the conversation drifted a bit off. Do you still need a recommendation?

[twin dew]

Based on the GN testing, getting usable prebuilt in US is major pain.

[glossy glacier]

Good thing he's in Germany

[twin dew]

Ah, then no idea why Amazons own crap brand...

Didn't really look what was going on otherwise.

In country where you have multiple good options to get made-to-order prebuilt from various big local companies.

Select parts, add building line item, get computer.

Best to be done with some actually local company, for easier warranty, if there is realistic option.

[glossy glacier]

Probably. But as he has no idea about parts he needs (our) help

[twin dew]

When in first I meant the big German online retailers.

[night girder]

🤷‍♂️ That's what I find on amazon.

Anyone here have PS5 controller and games on PC with it?

[twin dew]

What about that?

AFAIK: Install drivers, connect, use either via Steam or with DS4Windows to have it work with XInput games like Xbox controller?

[night girder]

Baldur, sorry to tell you this.

DS4Windows is discontinued project.

[twin dew]

Ok.

[night girder]

I went to their discord a year ago and they told me.

It's too hard for them to maintain it since Microsoft are being ... you choose a word here 😄

Xbox controller works flawless ofc. PS controllers. Microsoft doesn't help Sony at all.

That's why I was curious for PS5 controller, if the connectivity over bluetooth was better.

Without me needing to be a special PS5 controller USB C to Bluetooth dongle or something.

The thing is, I am tired off this wired PS4 Controller.

[twin dew]

Sony would just need to add XInput driver too, and not just older DirectInput one.
Lot of stuff has those without any real MS support.

[night girder]

The USB C connection on this controller isn't tight anymore, the cable keeps slipping out and I lose my controller connection mid fight during a boss.

[twin dew]

But based on what I read, they have DirectInput driver, and their own API, but no XInput.

Where their own games support them direct via that own gamepad API

[night girder]

Here is news btw about DS4Windows: gbatemp.net/threads/ds4windows-development-set-to-end-on-december-31st-of-2023.642855/

[twin dew]

And all the other DirectInput to XInput wrappers also work.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Controller:DualSense

[twin dew]

Seems to have gotten another update in March 2024, but that is listed as EOL one.

[night girder]

https://github.com/Ryochan7/DS4Windows/releases/

[twin dew]

https://ds4-windows.com/download/ryochan7-ds4windows/

[night girder]

I wouldn't trust that...

[twin dew]

Ok, that was linked from large site, and yes, seems to be same last 3.3.3.

[night girder]

Anyway. Why don't controllers just work over bluetooth goddamit.

[twin dew]

Just something on the site that was updated.

[night girder]

It's 2024 (almost 2025).

[twin dew]

But check that PCGamingWiki page?

[twin dew]

Because bluetooth as base has lot of latency in it.
Both Xbox and PS5 controllers use modified Bluetooth when talking to their consoles.

AFAIK XBox Series controllers work fine on Bluetooth with Windows?

[night girder]

Yes.

XBOX is Microsoft.

Ofc it works fine. That's what I am telling you.

But the sticks are offset which i dislike. And I don't like the xbox controller tbh.

[twin dew]

And Sony could code XInput driver if they wanted, to get the PS controllers to be fully featured in Windows.

[night girder]

I don't know, what I heard from DS4WIndows community, is Microsoft being pricks and not cooperating.

[twin dew]

Or have them expose the standard XInput HID controller USB descriptor and not need one.

[night girder]

So Sony is in the dark with their drivers and needs to do the same as what community did.

Figure it out without any help.

And even with the DS4Windows installed, some features just didn't work. Since not compatible.

The DS4Windows spoofs that the PS4 controller is a xbox controller

[twin dew]

Then why do almost all third party controllers support both at this point?

[night girder]

Because PS controller is Xbox controller.

The ViGEm Bus driver is the most important driver used by DS4Windows. It can create virtual/fake/emulated controllers, which DS4Windows uses to spawn virtual Xbox and DS4 controllers.

[twin dew]

No, that PC only stuff works as XInput, joysticks, wheels, gamepads etc.
And also the older DirectInput.

From third parties outside of MS and Sony.

[night girder]

The ScpVBus driver is used to create fake/virtual/emulated Xbox 360 controllers. It was made obsolete by the release of its successor, the ViGEmBus driver.

Usually, users accidentally install this driver when they search for “DS4Windows” on google and end-up clicking on the first result that appears, which leads to the original (but now obsolete) version of DS4Windows from the developer Jays2kings which prompts the user to install it.

ScpVBus is not used anymore by Ryochan7’s DS4Windows besides for experimenting purposes on special testing builds. Therefore, this driver has no use for the average user and it’s better if it were to be uninstalled in case it’s present since it has a minor chance of causing issues/BSoD on Windows.

[twin dew]

And the whole point of that DS4Win driver stuff is to talk to the controller via the Sony API, and not the DirectInput API, as that Sony API offers extra stuff that the DirectInput API Sony driver doesn't.

[night girder]

Xbox 360 emulation is the default mode: your gamepad will be recognized as if it were an Xbox 360 controller by the system and games

[twin dew]

You can use the more limited form with any of the DirectInput to XInput wrappers, including that Steam included one or other projects.

But that is limited to what DirectInput can support.

[night girder]

In summary, DS4 Windows makes it possible for your to use your PlayStation and Nintendo controllers on a Windows 10/11 PC by emulating a virtual Xbox/DS4 controller.

My point is: all this is bullshit.

Xbox is plug and play. Playstation controllers should do the same.

[twin dew]

Yes, like all those XInput wrappers.
When you need to use game controllers that don't have XInput support.

[twin dew]

And that is because Sony hasn't added native XInput support, which they could, if they wanted.
And as they don't, the various third party solutions are much clunkier, and if it includes new driver, it gets absolute pain with current "Only signed drivers" limitations.

And as DirectInput has significant limitations on analog axis support vs. XInput etc.

[night girder]

As I feared, PS5 controllers still suck with bluetooth. From reddit:

There's no conflicting information and this is very well known issue. Thing is, Bluetooth "strips" the identity of your DualSense so Steam uses what it needs to use and turn on Xbox emulation for your controller only because of Bluetooth. Never read any success stories for Playstation controllers on Bluetooth from r/SteamController as you can dig past same question answers there.

And like you said, Wired connection has no issues whatsoever, proving BT is the problem itself and if you tried it with other solutions instead of Steam Input, same result.

[twin dew]

Because the generic Bluetooth controller support is so limited again?
And would need special driver from Sony to get full functionality instead of the generic one?

[willow pike]

i do

let me read the chat

[night girder]

Short question; does PS5 controller work out of the box with bluetooth? And I mean, no 3rd party software like DS4Windows.

[twin dew]

Or possibly just that the Sony implementation of the Bluetooth HID profile is half-assed.

[willow pike]

no lmao

i gave up and just plug it in

[night girder]

It's alright if I need to use steam.

[night girder]

FCUKING NEW IT

and all the articles are like "yeah it's easy derpy derp"....

www.pcgamer.com/ps5-dualsense-controller-on-pc/

[twin dew]

I would expect all of them only deal with wired connection?

[night girder]

DS4Windows had good bluetooth support.

[willow pike]

the dualsense runs in bitch mode when plugged into a pc, until steam detects it and it suddenly runs fully featured

[night girder]

Thanks, saves me some money.

[twin dew]

When I use controller, I use MS one, but still wired as I don't want to deal with batteries etc.

[night girder]

I will look into that steam controller.

[willow pike]

games that can use the dualsense natively will fully use the adaptive triggers and touch bar

[night girder]

🤮

[willow pike]

yeah don't get that

[night girder]

What is this thing?

[willow pike]

I have one, the lack of the right analog stick makes it unusable

[night girder]

What were you thinking steam 😭

[twin dew]

Yeah, again, as Sony has half-assed the standard API support and only fully supports their own.
That needs per game support on Windows to work.

[willow pike]

the dualsense is the best pc controller if you don't mind having it plugged in

[night girder]

That is my issue.

[twin dew]

Trying to have mouse-analogues as touch surfaces.

[night girder]

👆

[willow pike]

when you overclock the USB you get the lowest input latency you can get, and it has a gyro

[willow pike]

ah that's a pain

[night girder]

So I wanted to go wireless.

And I am sick and tired of all these freaking cables around me.

[willow pike]

you can but it's a whole deal and I'm too old to deal with it

I still don't regret getting one, it's so much lower latency than an xbox controller

[night girder]

It should also be bluetooth 5.1

PS4 controller was 4

I dislike xbox controller, just how it feels in my hands. Preference.

[willow pike]

that being said, I am 95% confident valve are gonna release a steam console / steam box within 6 months (using the strix halo SOC) and that will necessitate a new steam controller that isn't shit

[night girder]

I guess it's too much of me to ask for controllers in 2025, that you connect with bluetooth and just work.

but hey we got AI And NFT's. And Bitcoins.

[twin dew]

And I cannot stand most Sony controllers for same reason 😆

[willow pike]

as a steam deck owner, i can say valve make the best controllers

[night girder]

euh?

[willow pike]

the steam deck's inputs are great

[twin dew]

This was bad try in getting something that could be used with mouse-focused games as is.

[willow pike]

it doesn't ditch the analog stick or dpad like the old steam controller did

[twin dew]

And also work as normal controller.

And then it did neither.

[willow pike]

and i can't overstate how awesome gyro aim is

[night girder]

Ah well, I guess I stick with this PS4 controller.

And keep doing my plier trick to the usb cable

[night girder]

2 days ago, I threw the controller over my room. It disconnected during very hard boss fight with friends, fml 😄

[willow pike]

the analog sticks are touch sensitive so they know when your thumb is on them, and it can enable the gyro

really we just need the controller ends of that without the computer in the middle and you have the best controller ever

give it like 6 months, I'm pretty confident it'll happen

[night girder]

I want them to work together.

One driver to rule them all.

[willow pike]

steam input is the goat, the phoenix that rose from the ashes of the steam controller

[night girder]

I am happy with what steam is trying to do. But it's all so messy.

it's not durable solution, all these hacks to make controllers work.

[willow pike]

they were able to turn controllers into xbox controllers because xinput is documented, while sony's stuff isn't

some games support steam input directly like spiderman so it don't matter what controller you use

and then there's jedi survivor, which does have full dualsense support, but because ea forces it to run through origin, steam can't hook into jedi survivor and everything breaks

(you don't even get the steam overlay in it, unless you add origin as a steam game lmao)

[night girder]

Not a fan of that either ah well. I am happy with steam.

And Valve in general.

[willow pike]

yeah really the problem is games almost never support steam input, cause game devs are hideously underpaid and overworked

see also shit performance

[night girder]

It's the same as Netflix. There was one streaming platform to rule then all. Now we have 100. We had a good game launher platform (steam) now they all want their own game launcher. I dislike that.

I open a game in steam, that opens a paradox launcher, that opens the game? So much bloat.

[twin dew]

"We must grab bigger slice of the pie by having the people use OUR service"

[night girder]

We want your data.

And in my opinion, the extra launchers add so little value.

[twin dew]

That is much lower down in the launching of per big company services and pulling out of the "universal" ones.

[buoyant orchid]

yep sry went to sleep

[night girder]

Yeah, I also went to bed sorry 😄

[soft bloom]

compression is underrated

i finally added a stat tracker to know how much it contributes

(idea came today, it was easy - simply didn't think of it before)

27GB in - 1.6GB out (i didn't bother alligning with actual powers of 2)

if only I knew about that feature before... cache makes development hell lot easier - because you can reproduce same input without bothering with network (connectivity, speed, proxies...)

o m g
if i could could process streaming response...perhaps success rate would increase

this right here is a poison to my life. (not really)

sad when websites don't support compression by themselves

[twin dew]

Because it is security risk to SSL.

So there are extra attacks against HTTPS when the connection uses compression.

[soft bloom]

attacks to break privacy* or to attack the server?

[twin dew]

To try to crack the encryption.
So you could read the traffic or spoof being the server (by determining the private key)

[soft bloom]

in this application that wouldn't do anything. it's public data, no user info

[twin dew]

Lot of places where it doesn't matter, but as just reason why it isn't in general use with large web services.

[soft bloom]

but considering how much data is moved... i noticed warning that response is above 'warning limit' which was set to 32MB

[twin dew]

But basically in any HTTP(S) server software, enabling compression is just enabling single plugin.

To make them compress any sent data if the client says it can take it.

[soft bloom]

all I know is that they use Apache

[soft bloom]

and looks like they know how to stream response, because even in browser it just kinda prints response

[lime cosmos]

wtf is this

[twin dew]

Graphical corruption in some game?

[lime cosmos]

It only occure in clients and some sofwares.

[glossy glacier]

bad compression?

[twin dew]

Not going to even start to speculate with the non-information so far.

[willow pike]

on the bright side everyone seems to be giving in and coming back to steam

[night girder]

I never gave up Steam. Didn't like what other launchers were doing to get people to switch.

[glossy glacier]

hm. i looked around a bit and have to admit i did not find a similar speced and priced System.
Altough if you go with the original system and the pictures are to be trusted i would NOT trust that CPU can... I would at least invest another 50€ in a better CPU cooler

If you are fine with a bit worse CPU and/or GPU i can offer some alternatives.

[night girder]

Xeet.

Have you watched GN video I posted about IBUYPOWER?

[buoyant orchid]

well about that

[night girder]

Oof.

[glossy glacier]

yikes

[buoyant orchid]

y u p

[glossy glacier]

yes i watched it when it released
(and forgot the details in the meantime except: avoid)

[twin dew]

But question is, why would anyone in Germany buy a iBuyPower system?

[night girder]

Not the question.

Lobhino asked if ibuysystem was good.

[willow pike]

first google hit probably

[night girder]

We looked into it and answered.

#off-topic-tech message

#off-topic-tech message

And to be fair, GN said in the video that previous systems were ok for quality/performance.

But they really dropped the ball in the video I posted. One screw was lose int he case. Banging around. The CPU socket guard was totally bend. The airflow is a joke in the front etc.

[glossy glacier]

specs: good (though CPU biased)
system: baad

[night girder]

Also CPU cooler wasn't tighted evenly. One corner was even lose.

Also, this hole is for front air flow

[night girder]

Also, do you know of better prebuilt brands in germany for 1k?

Oh maybe Herg knows.

[edgy hazel]

There are better options here

[twin dew]

Like I said, I would first check if any of the local shops to the asker do built-to-order or like.

[edgy hazel]

Alternate, mindfactory etc all offer prebuilds

[night girder]

Oh right, alternate is german.

[twin dew]

CaseKing too etc.

[glossy glacier]

Alternate, NBB, CK, Mifcom. Mindfactory offers to built for 180€

[edgy hazel]

Yeah mindfactory goated

[glossy glacier]

but you need to choose the parts yourself, so thats a bar to clear

[twin dew]

Lot of them also have preconfigured systems, or you can then swap parts from the "ready" one.

[glossy glacier]

i meant MFs build service

[twin dew]

Case King 12400F & 4060 TI system as example:
https://www.caseking.de/en/gaming-pc-black-dagger-intel-core-i5-12400f-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-prebuilt-pc/SIPC-566.html

[night girder]

@buoyant orchid Have you looked on alternate.de?

I am looking at it now, but my german isn't good enough 😄

[twin dew]

Ryzen 7600X one is 1100e.

[night girder]

I think Lobhino mentioned they could maybe afford extra 100 euro.

[twin dew]

But that CaseKing one has too little RAM, only 2x8GB, which is x16 chips.

At default

[night girder]

Visiting mindfactory.de; "Ich bin ein Mensch" 😂 portal haha 😄

[willow pike]

dubaro.de seems to do prebuilts too

[willow pike]

ich bin ein fucking nerd

[twin dew]

Almost any parts seller will do in Europe AFAIK.

[buoyant orchid]

gimme a sec

[twin dew]

With prices depending, 50-100e in Finland.

Over the parts if doing custom one, and with various "stock" configs

[buoyant orchid]

uh would need some help here no idea what im looking for

[night girder]

Mindfactory.

[willow pike]

that's pretty neat

[night girder]

Yeah, not 100% sure what's going on. German not good enough. Not sure if it's prebuilt. Or preconfigured and you can change things.

[willow pike]

no upgrade path but neither does anything intel, no need for a big CPU cooler

7700xt better than any 4060

[night girder]

When I click on it.

So I think you can swap out parts before ordering it?

remove the "https://" part

[twin dew]

You need to remove https:// from the front

[buoyant orchid]

www.alternate.de/html/product/100093200

[willow pike]

you will need to flash the BIOS on anything intel, are you comfortable doing that

[glossy glacier]

didn't you need wifi @buoyant orchid ?

[night girder]

Yes

[twin dew]

Should be done by the maker in most cases, and not that relevant to 12th gen.

[willow pike]

should

[night girder]

but you can always buy a wifi adapter.

[buoyant orchid]

uhm yes as i said no idea what im doign

[twin dew]

But that has way overdone cooling with that AIO, and underwork with the H610 MB and 16GB of DDR4.

IMHO

[willow pike]

also it's another 4060 8GB piece of shit

[night girder]

was thinking the same

that AIO cooler is put into the system for the looks I think

[willow pike]

this is why everyone has a 4060, there's so many of them

[twin dew]

But I would really suggest you look what companies selling computer components there are in your city or like.
And seeing if they have gaming computers for sale, or if they do built-to-order.
For much easier warranty.

[glossy glacier]

what about this: www.mindfactory.de/shopping_cart.php/basket_action/load_basket_extern/id/7f41b422168c4c4987b00f62d52604551b664d715c7e587586c ?

[night girder]

that's just the price range.

[willow pike]

www.dubaro.de/Gaming-PCs/Konsolen-Killer-PC::8137.html

[buoyant orchid]

the nearest city would be frankfurt the rest is teeny tiny

but alternate seems to have alot of free shipping

[night girder]

alternate is solid company imo.

[edgy hazel]

frankfurt gang

[willow pike]

yeah and at this price nvidia bad, they know the 4060 is shit and know people will buy it anyway

[twin dew]

Wouldn't really use 5600X at this point, but update to 5700X3D.
And that didn't include the tick for assembly.

[night girder]

To me, it looks like a lot of PC's in 1k range have overkill CPU and weak GPU.

[twin dew]

It is 139e extra for anything on MindFactory.de it seems?

[glossy glacier]

it does include assembly. wanted the X3D but to expensive

[willow pike]

5700X3D, 12GB 7700XT, 32GB DDR4-3600

[glossy glacier]

also i think kinda overkill?

[twin dew]

No it didn't, goes up to 1088e with it ticked.

[willow pike]

5700X3D is the one to get in this price

[twin dew]

So much better gaming performance than any other currently available AM4 CPU, for not that high price.

[glossy glacier]

oh, didn't include it in the export then.

[night girder]

I posted it no?

[willow pike]

better than AM5 or anything Intel right now

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

5700X3D

[twin dew]

And Alternate has their physical shop at Linden north of Frankfurt

[glossy glacier]

config is without build, thats another ~140€

[night girder]

Ah thank you 🙂

What are the others?

Can you just montage without funktiontest-service?

[twin dew]

Just installing specific parts, BIOS update etc.

None include installing the stuff into a case except that full one.

[night girder]

39.90 euro for bios update?

[twin dew]

Yes.

[night girder]

I am going to start a bios update company. This is a gold mine lol 😄

[winged valley]

39.9 euro for bios update is a scam

[night girder]

Yeah rofl.

[winged valley]

My pricing structure works way differently but I'm also coming to your house

[twin dew]

https://www.arlt.com/PC/Gaming-PCs/AMD-PC-Deal-Smart-Ryzen-7-5700X3D-16GB-RAM-1TB-SSD-RX7700XT-W11Pro.html

[willow pike]

people buying raptor lake will absolutely not pay this without knowing why they need it

[night girder]

arlt.com? trust worty?

[winged valley]

My price is $50 usd but

• I'm coming to your house
• I'm doing a lot more than bios update

[twin dew]

Seems to be pretty wide spread with physical locations in Germany.

[winged valley]

Hmm

Perhaps rent is expensive there idk

[night girder]

Has a Asus Dual Radeon RX 7700 XT OC.

[twin dew]

And has OS

[glossy glacier]

while (only) 16GB RAM, decent system

[twin dew]

Yeah, that was the main minus.

[winged valley]

This is such a strange pc 5700x3d what why

Just go 7000 series

[twin dew]

Most of the systems don't come with Windows by default.

[glossy glacier]

cause budget

[winged valley]

Shady resellers have windows 11 home keys for $29-39, otherwise MS sells for like $79

Thats why

[twin dew]

I know, but for some, having the system actually come with fully installed OS is big plus.

[winged valley]

True

[twin dew]

For the persons who don't know how to build the computer either.

[winged valley]

Visions of massgravel...

[night girder]

We are discussing a specic case so not really options I think.

Prebuilt, 1k, wifi, all sorts of game. Are the criteria 😄 Oh, and germany.

[glossy glacier]

second problem: no wifi