off-topic-tech

[sterile plinth]

I have a little issue

There are two tiny small objects on top of my monitor

(They look like dead pixels but they're physical objects)

Idk what they are, could be mosquito eggs or some shit

[night girder]

looks like burned pixels

[sterile plinth]

Again it's a physical object

If I turn off the monitor I can see them

[sterile plinth]

These 2 dots that stand out

[night girder]

LCD burn

[twin dew]

Nah, particles between the LCD layers.

[sterile plinth]

This is with the monitor off

The monitor is literally off

[twin dew]

Or between the LCD and the outer glass/plastic.

[night girder]

I once literally had burned spots on my macbook screen

[sterile plinth]

And they are not between anything, I can see them protruding out of the monitor

[night girder]

and it was common issue for that type of screen back then.

[twin dew]

Ah, impact marks on the outer material.

[night girder]

Pixels got too hot or something and literally burned through everything.

And since then I had a little crater in my screen.

[sterile plinth]

Yeah my original question was how to clean them

[twin dew]

Well, probably you don't.

[sterile plinth]

I am scared a wet paper towel will damage the monitor screen

[night girder]

Alcohol solution?

[twin dew]

Paper towel, microcloth or like.

[sterile plinth]

Dry paper towel just slides over them

[twin dew]

With just bit of water over most alcohols.

[sterile plinth]

Hmm blue alcohol would work?

[twin dew]

Never with dry paper.

[sterile plinth]

I don't think I have isopropyl At home

[twin dew]

Except the final gentle drying.

[sterile plinth]

Is blue alcohol fine

[twin dew]

Try with just water first.

[night girder]

I use alcohol to clean nails

[twin dew]

Try

[sterile plinth]

Are you sure it won't damage the screen

Touching it with water towel

[night girder]

Alcohol vaporates

so 96% just vaporates into the air.

[twin dew]

Depending on alcohol, it can damage the plastic (if not glass surfaced), or the coatings.

Water doesn't.

[night girder]

Never had any problems with my monitors since I use it.

[sterile plinth]

Um @twin dew what the actual fuck is this

[night girder]

A lot of those monitor special towels are just alcohol solution 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Said "depending on alcohol".

[sterile plinth]

Why is it brown

[night girder]

Might be some bug shit tbh

🐛 🪲 🐞

[sterile plinth]

I told you it's mosquito eggs

[twin dew]

So that is just denaturated ethanol.
But again, the denaturation fluid might cause issues for some other brand.

[sterile plinth]

All good, monitor is fixed

I told you it was mosquito eggs

[night girder]

Well you asked so we answered.

[sterile plinth]

Yeah thanks, my original question was if using a wet paper towel is safe

And since baldur said it's safe I went with it

[twin dew]

Only real possible damage with that is if you drip something into control PCB if there are buttons at the bottom of the monitor.
And that can only happen if you use way too much water really.

And most current monitors don't even have anything there.

[night girder]

This screen has burn mark. Litterally a little crater in the screen. Plastic/glass gone.

Happened a lot to Macbook retina screens..

Here another example.

[wanton orchid]

oh many degrees : yes

[safe trench]

bro your cooked

its jebover

now that you noticed it

[night girder]

That's why we pay 2K for a Macbook

[verbal raft]

did they ever fix the FSR 3 implementation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2FMQfEiBOA

i found a way to enable FSR upscaling in ark ascended and im curious to see if anyone can spot the difference between TSR and FSR both running at 58% screen percentage

[twin dew]

The weird stuff you have to build in Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries for specific mission type...

[night girder]

You are standing still. I notice (atleast in some games) the difference while moving.

Especially in SF, FSR and moving objects look so smeared (like falling leaves).

[night girder]

That UI is ... questionable. Doesn't look like a game for me.

[verbal raft]

in SF i find FSR at balnced to look better than TAA

[twin dew]

Mods to give tabletop level of customization instead of the original very limited ones.

[verbal raft]

mostly because it has better image stability

[night girder]

Baldur, you explained once to me why in SF things look smeared for FSR.

Like the leaves falling down from the sky, they had ghost effect.

[twin dew]

Originally you can only switch weapons, and need to be same size and type.

[twin dew]

Anything without motion vectors will smear badly.

And in SF, lot of the GPU fakery things don't have those.

[night girder]

It doesn't happen for other modes.

[verbal raft]

the only thing i found in satisfactory that doesnt have motion vectors are reflections

[twin dew]

Belt items, machine animations.

[night girder]

leaves...

[verbal raft]

i think the added motion vectors to those in 1.0

[night girder]

Pretty sure I am using Intel ExSS atm.

And it doesn't have that problem 🤷‍♂️

[verbal raft]

neither does FSR at performance

[night girder]

But maybe it's not a FSR problem, but just SF specific.

SF is updating, I check after it.

[verbal raft]

or at least i cant see it

here is XESS VS FSR at 1080p performance (compression might have ruined it)

[verbal raft]

it ABSULUTLY did

even though im recording at 10000 Kbps

[willow pike]

weirdly, i get much more ghosting on xess than fsr

[pure karma]

thats honestly kinda cool

[willow pike]

though i had to disable antialiasing and enable fsr2 for that, which is bonkers to do

[verbal raft]

in SF i only see ghosting with FG

[night girder]

streamable.com/qle0d5 That's a video. FSR / No downscalling.

[soft bloom]

unless you have 1-wire setup and you just need to fuck around and find out

[night girder]

If you check the leaves that are flying around, they are very blurry

and ghosting

[verbal raft]

where are you because i cant find those very much if at all

in game of course

[night girder]

new save in the grasslands

especially at the end of the video

Arrow is velocity

Look how smeared that is.

[verbal raft]

they do look blury but im not sure at all that XESS would do a better job

[night girder]

I was mistaken. I use TSR 🙈

[jagged snow]

Ooooh

[verbal raft]

TSR THE WORST upscaler

[night girder]

Well, it's the one that doesn't do that.

And I have good FPS. No Downscalling.

Not the best FPS though, I noticed that. But I am happy with how the game looks with it.

[verbal raft]

im going to chect that out myself because i almost never see anything that ghosts so much

especially with FSR

[soft bloom]

only if you have other options

[verbal raft]

i went there and i did see it with 60% but not with 100%

[night girder]

mhm, well you can clearly see it in the video.

and I just took screenshot of my settings, so not sure what's going on 🤷‍♂️

[verbal raft]

wait no, i was using XESS

🤦‍♂️

like an absolute dumb***

now that im actually using FSR i can see it

but i wouldnt call that something that makes me want to use XESS and give up on FG

[night girder]

I was mistaken, like I said, I use TSR.

And I don't want to blame FSR either. Can be just SF specific. But I noticed it and it annoyed me so I switched.

[verbal raft]

the only thing i found that made xess look better was its fine detail reconsrtuction (1st FSR 2nd XESS)

both at 50%

[night girder]

look at that shadow of the rock, bottom left corner

Oof. Both have it though.

[verbal raft]

i think ive spent like hours looking for things that one does better than the other
but almost every time i find something that looks bad on one of them i then go to the other to see if it looks just as bad and often i keep second guessing myself in terms of which looks better

different time of day W FSR at 100%

[night girder]

This is with TSR

Don't see any issues tbh.

[verbal raft]

and what should i be looking at?

[night girder]

The shadows look fine.

The details look fine. I don't understand why it's a bad upscaler. It sure looks better than FSR.

[verbal raft]

turn it down to 60% and look at decently far away foliage (AKA:trees)

oh, and disable lumen

[night girder]

huh

that looks odd

[verbal raft]

and something i just noticed TSR looks it has a weird filter attached

FSR

[night girder]

They both look ok. But FSR looks weird with moving particles, like I showed.

[verbal raft]

so does TSR

[night girder]

Check, the little flies: https:// streamable.com/tdqaz0

[verbal raft]

didnt work

[night girder]

there is a space in there, else the bot gets angry

[verbal raft]

got it

[night girder]

and just checked, TSR doesn't have it that badly.

[verbal raft]

those dont look like flies to me

they look like dead leaves

[night girder]

I don't know, it's like black smears

[verbal raft]

but FSR does have more ghosting here

[night girder]

https://streamable.com/d29mk8

Wait ... what 😮 The bot sleeping? Or it's whitelisted. Good to know.

But yeah, that video is TSR.

[dire igloo]

you just need to remove the https:// portion, lol

can be copied and pasted into the browser without issues and the bots don't detect it either

[night girder]

You can clearly see the little details better. In my opinion.

The little butterflies and whatnot.

[night girder]

Yeah I know, but I didn't know streamable was whitelisted.

[verbal raft]

i have tried it myself and seen it but for me that still doesnt out weight the extreme flickering on the trees

[night girder]

I don't have flickering at 100%. But I can see it being an issue.

[verbal raft]

at 100% the only problems you can see about an upscaler is ghosting

or bugs

like this one https://youtu.be/to2MuvbZ_zs

[dire igloo]

that's not what I'm referring to anyway.
by splitting the two portions of the link, it was no longer copy-paste-able (hence why you needed to give that extra piece of clarification)
had you just removed the https:// part without putting a space in between, this wouldn't've happened

[night girder]

Oh yeah, I do that. But this time I was lazy 😂

I though they would notice

[verbal raft]

for which i also have a fix for https://youtu.be/Gw-MumKIbnw

[verbal raft]

i do when looking at these trees

[night girder]

I haven't noticed that.

But yeah, just play with what you feel comfortable with. That's why there are options. But most upscalers have drawbacks.

[verbal raft]

true

but i will end it with this comparison: https://youtu.be/8rLtskFJcm4

youtube compression makes it useless though

[languid gulch]

got a fun one: whenever i let my monitor go to sleep, but every time it wakes back up AMD Adrenaline is open

[jagged snow]

Oh, my pc was doing that every time the pc itself went to sleep

I don't remember what the fix was

[alpine wharf]

This is a known bug for them.

[languid gulch]

good to know, thought it might've been my system being weird

[twin dew]

Rambler doing video that is only little over 7 minutes long!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY0kEB-1MIc

He also expected that the two dumbasses were installing the CPUs with MB already installed in a case and case upright...

[tough owl]

finally windows arm vm the non sketchy way

[rustic panther]

I've never even thought of mounting a CPU while the mb is vertical

Like, you'd start thinking "hmmm, the CPU doesnt stay in place, lemme rotate my case so gravity works with me" after a bit, right?

[verbal raft]

just an avarage day playing ark ascended....

[rapid ether]

I did it maybe twice.... once with an old 80386 (they still had very sturdy and not too many pins on the underside, and no cooling system to attach so fractions of mm could kill something because of the amount of pressure the cooler applies.... and then with a, I think Pentium II or Pentium III -- there were 1-2 generations where the CPUs came on or were little logic boards that went into the mainboard...
yes, I'm old 😄

Yes, those were the times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_II

[wanton orchid]

or at least maintain the cpu in place permanently by grabbing it from the frame hole

[night girder]

the code that keeps ark together is amazing

[verbal raft]

also that 30 fps was with frame generation

and balanced FSR

[verbal raft]

first time i got the hotspot temps over 90c

[soft bloom]

I wish there wasa built into OS (UI) way to concatenate contents of files with same name from different folders in bulk

[twin dew]

WTF

[wanton orchid]

one day I should really make a software with detailed synthetic performance mesurement
so one could take the data and use an application profile to accurately guess the app specific performance / scaling

[jagged snow]

Heh

[twin dew]

So someone is planning to use old system for dedi, and someone else then tries to get him to buy crappy new system?

And CPU performance both doesn't and does matter

[jagged snow]

Which is very interesting

[twin dew]

And if you wanted to make new system for SF Dedi right now, 5700X3D would probably be the cheap option...

Which would run circles around that 13500 for that.

[jagged snow]

The "newer is always better" rhetoric with hardware amazes me
Because often the old hardware you have is better than the new hardware you don't

[wanton orchid]

Baldr please dont make me regret the forward, I know for same reasons as for twitter quote it's stupid how it pulls it out of context
but so here the original topic was on selecting the right OLD system cheap stuff second hand enteprise ewaste to get

and these only use intel shit

[twin dew]

Ok

But somehow I don't expect 13th gen Intel to be in the enterprise ewaste category yet either.

Because usually that is 3 years old and older.

[rapid ether]

yepp, pats his i7-9700KF livingroom vr pc

[pure karma]

yea i think there probably still going to last even if not as long

my 13700K hassent shown a single sign of wear and i havent been on the default preset for the entire past year turns out

[wanton orchid]

tried to make it fair @twin dew

[rapid ether]

I always make my then "old" gaming PC the new home-server, that way I get about 8-10 years out of the hardware. Only the past iteration wasn't like that because I took my work PC with me when being let go 5 years ago...

[twin dew]

No, because the normal way for 3 year old systems to end up from companies to used market is because the warrant & support often runs out at that 3 year mark.
Anything newer isn't usually being sold out or otherwise gotten rid off.

So perfectly working systems are replaced to keep full warranty & support running all the time.

[pure karma]

honestly i dont see a problem with that if the deals are good and they arent absolutely totaled by the end of the 3 years

[twin dew]

But point was, 13500 isn't old enough to be in that 3 year or older category.
So there shouldn't be much being sold.
Only from possible bankrupsies etc.

Launch Date Q1'23

[rapid ether]

you can be lucky and get an almost brand new "defective" laptop, where the user complained the webcam is kaputt while they actually had used a privacy sticker. We had that TWICE within a few months at my job... and it's not a large company

but I'm glad they're not using refurbished former leasing hardware anymore... that was... funky...

[tough owl]

Dang Baldur new role

[soft bloom]

anyone heard of a way to cluster timeseries?

for context: some way to group together signals that go like bottom ones, regardless when they began, and the top ones (rising, or rather, not falling in this particular case). curious how many similar behvaiours are there

[stray badger]

Elitebook 845 g7 for like 300usd a couple of years ago. Ryzen 7 4750u + 16gb ddr4 3200

Quite happy about it

[tough owl]

Meanwhile I bought a thinkpad p53 with 9750h and rtx5000

With a bad screen and trackpad which I can fix for $75

[stray badger]

not bad not bad

[tough owl]

the thinkpad cost me like 480 too

[stray badger]

oooo really not bad

ok i thought that the rtx 5000 was ampere for some reason, still good tho

[tough owl]

yea its not ampere, just turing

but 80w and 16gb vram

[soft bloom]

this was scary 🙂
and saddest thing - i have to do it again since i forgot 1 tiny important column
honestly wonder why pandas takes so much space while CSV export makes just about 9GB file

gota check their 'lowe memory' feature

Turns out there were 100 nuclear explosions of magnitude about 6 (i say it like that because it's a bit weird how data is filtered...). there was a pause from 1995, but last one is from 2017 - it was registered by 2000 seismic stations

[soft bloom]

oh it's just for reading CSV. sad

[languid gulch]

the 2017 one was NK i assume

[soft bloom]

exactly

[twin dew]

A customer came in with a bent CPU and chipped substrate in one corner. Asked him how he got that much damage, he told me he forgot to put the processor while the motherboard was out of the casing and didn't want to take it out because it was a pain installing it vertically with the IO shield... Asked him why he didn't tilt the casing horizontally, told me he didn't want to scratch the casing. 1000$CAD damage not to scratch a 70$ casing. People are stupid. Good analysis.

And lot of other people also telling about their fuckups in installing CPU while case was vertical in that BuildZoid video I posted yesterday...

I've been guilty of installing a CPU vertically before, actually to be more precise, I had to change my AIO, and in the process involve having to remove the standard Intel locking mechanism, opted to be lazy and not take out the whole motherboard, I tried doing it vertically with the MB still in the case. I noticed an issue with my GPU after the install as it wasn't running at PCIE 4.0 x 16, but instead it was doing it at x 4, after days of troubleshooting, ended up finding out that I bent my CPU corner right where it was responsible for PCIE lanes, because the CPU likely moved as I was mounting it vertically. Damaged pins and CPU, had to replace both the MB and the CPU.

[languid gulch]

yea, there's basically nothing that saves you time or money when moving a system to do a horizontal cpu swapout

hell, it'd be cheaper to replace an entire CLC than the cpu

[willow pike]

i vertically installed on lga775 once, do not recommend

[languid gulch]

i have a dell LGA775 in my closet 🤣

back when their cases looked ok

[twin dew]

Good thing you could just swap the outside parts to the latest case as the actual frame is still the same 🤣

[languid gulch]

oh i think it's dead dead

but yes, pretty sure it's the same chassis as every other

[soft bloom]

there's always an option to put pc case on something soft, like sofa or bed. noscratches.

[twin dew]

Or just towel or like on desk etc.

[soft bloom]

also never fully assemble case before first boot

[languid gulch]

oh hell no 🤣

asking for trouble

the only serious mistake i've made when assembling my systems was when i completely forgot to plug in CPU power & my mobo yelled at me

that stupid plug really likes to hide in the darkness

[rapid ether]

learned that the hard way, too.... the first mainboard where you had to screw a counter-plate to the bottom for mounting the fan... and the case of course didn't have a hole in that place. noticed after mounting and attaching the hard to reach places with cables etc.

[verbal raft]

spent 2 hours on these benchmarks (my PC has 16gig 3200MT RAM R5 5600G RX6600)

[verbal raft]

all of these results had atleast 1 autosave during them so they have to be retested

[twin dew]

Starship IFT-6 planned for next week.

[jagged snow]

No earlier than Monday morning local time, correct?

[twin dew]

Slipped one day very recently.

So Tuesday 2024-11-19 22:00 UTC as the current targeted opening of 30 minute window.
https://www.spacex.com/launches/mission/?missionId=starship-flight-6

[jagged snow]

👍

[verbal raft]

every thing has been retested!

[willow pike]

jesus fuckin christ

how's raptor lake with a regular SSD faster than arrow lake with optane

[verbal raft]

ask intel

they surely know

[willow pike]

you would hope

[verbal raft]

i actually find these very interesting:
lumen off 100% resolution scale
TAA 77
FXAA 77
NONE 78
TSR 63
FSR 69
XESS 67

upscaling performance at 75% (TAA for comparison)
TAA 89
TSR 79
FSR 83
XESS 78 (thats surprising)

[night girder]

How do you test different upscaling methods objectively?

Because, you can measure FPS gain objectively. But you cannot measure "how it looks". That's more opinion based I think? And different upscaling methods look different. So how can we test these methods?

[pure karma]

you dont... the end

[verbal raft]

best you can do is create side by sides with ICAT and then grab a magnifying glass

[night girder]

But what about unexpected behavior, like the flickering trees.

[night girder]

mhm, though so.

[verbal raft]

depends on your definition of unexpected behavoiur

[night girder]

Well, TSR, the trees flicker at 60% in the distance. Other upscalers don't have that. So to me, that's unexpected behavior.

[verbal raft]

so things that one upscaler does but the others dont

[night girder]

What's the proverb? Comparing apples to oranges?

[pure karma]

you guys are riding on the red line of this being satis talk and not off topic

[night girder]

mh, that's because we had previous talk about it. But the fact remains, different upscalers, give different visual results.

People telling me that upscaler is worse than another made me think about it.

[verbal raft]

how would this be satis talk specificly?

[night girder]

Like, only thing you can say, that one upscaler gives more frames.

but at what cost.

[pure karma]

because you are using data colected from the game

but either way im interested in the results

[night girder]

results?

[pure karma]

well id love to see a comparion of each one

[night girder]

lightning put in some work comparing them

but that was very quick with screenshots.

but that was purely visually. So without FPS gain in mind.

[verbal raft]

Fps gains right here

[night girder]

This video set it all off 😄

[night girder]

Me too, hence my question how do you do it properly.

[verbal raft]

no one responded to that one

[pure karma]

id say zoom in on something from a decent distance away with each one

[night girder]

Measure frames per second. And then take different visual elements and compare them; shadow, object far away, moving objects, edges, etc.

[verbal raft]

been there done that

[pure karma]

and then for a moving one maybe stand on a belt asuming a SF context

[night girder]

Well, it got me interested in the topic 🙂

[night girder]

Also, how much impact do games have on the results of upscalers?

I mean, I assume it has to be implemented by the developers of the game. How much can do optimize?

[pure karma]

probably a decent impact

[night girder]

Because maybe one upscaler is really good in a particular game, but sucks in another.

[pure karma]

because diffrent contexes will allow something to work better

like frame generation would work like hell on something that is consistently very similar frame to frame

[verbal raft]

judging from the amount of console commands available for FSR in SF and ark

not that much

[night girder]

console commands isn't the same as the actual code of implementing upscalers.

[verbal raft]

true

but making the upscalers look good is up to the maker of the upscaler

[night girder]

and the fact cyberpunk added FSR 3 clearly means it needs some implementation work

[night girder]

well, I am not so sure about that.

[willow pike]

fsr2, xess and dlss2 are all forms of temporal AA; they all need the same inputs and are interchangeable

like motion vectors and a depth buffer

[night girder]

So, motion vectors and depth buffer is provided by developers?

[willow pike]

yis

but once you support one, you support them all

this is also why it's a pain to mod them into games that do not already support one

[night girder]

and what about FSR 3?

[willow pike]

frame generation needs more data, hence FSR3 and DLSS frame gen not being drop-in

but the upscaling part of FSR3 is identical to FSR2

using mods you can literally swap a .dll file in a game that supports DLSS to make it use FSR2 instead

and vice versa

[night girder]

very handy for developers.

[willow pike]

microsoft is standardising this with directSR, an API that developers target, where windows then chooses the best upscaler

so; game supports directSR, your PC can do dlss, it runs the latest dlss provided by your graphics driver

one day we won't need developers to lift a finger

it doesn't have frame generation in it yet but that'll be easy

[night girder]

wonder how much more they can improve it

[verbal raft]

improve what?

[night girder]

upscalers/frame generation

[verbal raft]

well FSR can definitly get a BIG upgrade (AI)

DLSS: i dont know if there is room for improvment there

[willow pike]

FSR4 is using ML

i think DLSS has peaked already, there's only so much information to be extracted

[verbal raft]

ye thats what i was eluding to

[willow pike]

DLSS ray reconstruction looks shit ass honestly, it hallucinates detail like chatgpt

[verbal raft]

i cant try that

[willow pike]

reflections added that aren't already there, detail smushed out of existence

[verbal raft]

but i heard good things about it

[willow pike]

it changes the image

[gilded helm]

Looks like RX 6800 non-XT deals have finally dried up in the USA, that thing was an absolute steal when it was around $340.

[willow pike]

shame

[night girder]

Looks good to me.

[verbal raft]

340??!!?!?!?!??!?!

[gilded helm]

For a pretty long time honestly.

Maybe a whole year?

[willow pike]

nah

[verbal raft]

nvidia's showcase they are going to make it look the best it can

[verbal raft]

what

[willow pike]

cup babied out of life

[verbal raft]

where did my copper wire go???????

i cant even build my power poles no more maan😭

[night girder]

oof, you right watching another video and some weird stuffis happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UIjaE79Iok

[gilded helm]

Huh. PCP just tripping, Amazon has the 6800 for $360.

[willow pike]

it invents super shiny reflections that should not be there

it's straight up AI hallucination bs

[night girder]

at the lake, you can see the lake just switching out differently

it has some sort of fog, and that just dissapears instantly. Nvm, they disable the fog 😄

Still these reflections don't look good.

it's like there is also a fog on the floor.

[pure karma]

that just looks like the game is trash

im scrolling trough the video and most of this dosent even seem to be primarely raytracings fault

[verbal raft]

keep in mind that version of RR is modded

[willow pike]

imgsli.com/MjA4MzAz

[night girder]

a few moments later it looks better:

[willow pike]

really zoom in on this, it looks like AI generated images with the weird patterns out of nowhere

[night girder]

This stuff?

When it's off.

[willow pike]

it's like everything's covered in cling film that's crinkled up

[verbal raft]

i grabbed some footage of each upscaler in SF at 60% and im going to put them into ICAT and im going to look for flaws

[willow pike]

even at potato quality you can see the ghosting

[verbal raft]

well thats why its called potato quality

[verbal raft]

maaan i would love it if AMD encoders didnt SUCK

[willow pike]

use av1

[verbal raft]

i cant

[stray badger]

much of the reflection on the left of the puddle is entirely wrong

[willow pike]

ah heck

[verbal raft]

RX 6000

doesnt have AV1

well this way the only 1 comparison that is usable is the stationary one

[willow pike]

you could use CPU encoding

[stray badger]

cpus can encode btw

[willow pike]

or jack the bitrate up

[verbal raft]

its already at 12K

[willow pike]

lmao

[verbal raft]

that runs at 16fps

on my poor 5600g

[verbal raft]

or atleast AV1 does

[willow pike]

try h264 cpu

[night girder]

That is true. I guess it's WIP

[willow pike]

it's over a year old

[stray badger]

a well done cubemap would look better

[night girder]

I think the idea is, that it's low effort for developer.

the ML does the work for the developer... but at what cost.

[willow pike]

instead of denoising raytracing then denoising TAA in DLSS, it's meant to denoise both in one step

but it clearly hallucinates detail

[night girder]

it made up a whole building in the reflection

[willow pike]

they're asking the ML to do too much

[night girder]

with a 🌴 sticking out of the building.

[willow pike]

lmao i didn't see that

[night girder]

I didn't notice it as first too.

But I mean, you really have to pay attention for that no?

[verbal raft]

i'll try x264

[willow pike]

so i guess if you don't pay attention to the picture it's great

[night girder]

it has room for improvement for sure

[verbal raft]

OH GOD ITS SO MUCH WORSE

[willow pike]

i fear a 5600g isn't strong enough

[verbal raft]

lets try with 12K bitrate

[verbal raft]

dont worry it can handle it

maybe*

its better now

and it did handle it

[stray badger]

the palm tree also is the wrong color in the reflection

[night girder]

yeah, the more I look at it, the more I notice

[verbal raft]

but im not satisfied yet.. how about 22K bitrate?

[stray badger]

and the sky reflection seems a bit bright considering that the brighter horizon is caused by artificial lighting, the actual sky should be pretty dark

its just not good

[night girder]

Also, the palm tree has cubes

Almost looks like a minecraft tree

[verbal raft]

i think that is just the ground being un ailiased

lets try this

[stray badger]

was rdna 2 that bad at encoding?

i have had absolutely no problems with h.264

[verbal raft]

for what i need it for there can be NO compression artifacts

[stray badger]

then you need to use CPU encode in smth like DNxHR

[willow pike]

even nvenc has compression artifacts

if you're using OBS doesn't that have a lossless mode

[verbal raft]

finally i think that it looks as good as what i see in game

[night girder]

doesn't discord compress?

[verbal raft]

probably does

[willow pike]

use a video editor to nearest neighbour upscale it, zooming in on an area that shows off any artifacts you want to show off; this will help it endure the discord compression

[verbal raft]

at first im just going to put them in to ICAT to campare them

1st FSR loses to XESS in terms of pixelation

[night girder]

don't you need the exact same image?

I find it hard to compare those two side by side

[verbal raft]

they both have grass

and were stopped

[night girder]

yeah, but first one looks like camera is closer to the grass

I am nitpicking, but if you want to be precise 😄

It does look like first one has more pixels.

[gilded helm]

Power cables between power towers would be interesting. They look awful in motion with DLSS, even when they're contrasting only against static sky.

[verbal raft]

these 2 are the same distance from the camera

[verbal raft]

FSR almost makes them disapaer at range

[gilded helm]

I'd rather they were just gone altogether than the flicker in and out I see with DLSS.

[night girder]

what %?

[verbal raft]

for me its 60% for all my tests

[gilded helm]

Out and about, can't recall off the top of my head, but toggling performance/quality didn't seem to make a different specifically with cables.

[verbal raft]

this is what they look like W FSR

but i will have better tests for this later

[night girder]

that waterfall in the background 😒

[verbal raft]

thats just how the game is

next TSR VS FSR pixelation test

[gilded helm]

Pretty bad in motion too I'm guessing? Screenshots only tell half the story, even when they're good/bad.

[night girder]

But like here, it's way harder to spot the difference.

[verbal raft]

yeah

TSR looks extremly blurry here

but less pixelated

which looks better here

[gilded helm]

If Blackwell and RDNA4 end up being on TSMC N4, we all need to brace for screenshots from Nvidia and AMD showing off great upscaled performance... in cherry picked screenshots. And no 1% low or latency info.

Because that's the only way they'll be able to portray big gains. Unless die sizes go way up.

[verbal raft]

i vote FSR (its sharper)

[night girder]

marketing

[verbal raft]

bigger number better

[night girder]

or put fancy acronyms on the box.

[verbal raft]

next XESS VS TSR

[gilded helm]

Coming up at CES, the next iteration of the Lenovo Legion 7 laptop: the Legion 7 AI X Pro XT Max GTA 6 Nvidia Geforce RTX Edition.

[night girder]

have my money

you had me at AI.

[verbal raft]

XESS has better clearity in motion and is less blury (IMO)

[gilded helm]

Honestly, I would love for companies to paper launch special editions like that just to hear tech press say it.

[verbal raft]

next FSR VS XESS image stability test

its hard to show but XESS has some instability with the trees and the the water extractors in the back

and FSR is sharper

[night girder]

FSR has pixelated rocks oof.

[verbal raft]

they are oversharpened

[night girder]

for sure

[verbal raft]

FSR's sharpening pass is known to be more agressive than XESS

heres the same scene but with FSR's sharpening pass lessened

but i forgot to turn the fog off

😭

[verbal raft]

FSR sharpening set to 0 (but it has fog)

next TSR VS XESS

[willow pike]

i always noticed XESS had shitass stability with lumen on

[verbal raft]

i noticed the opposite

[willow pike]

oh tsr is not bringing its best

[verbal raft]

TSR also has issues with the trees an water extractors

also has this weird effect (the random pixels in the sky)

[willow pike]

the fuck

[verbal raft]

like XESS also has issues with these trees

[night girder]

is 60% considered balanced?

[verbal raft]

just more

[night girder]

or peroformance??

[verbal raft]

in SF it is performance

[willow pike]

depends who you ask

[night girder]

Yeah, TSR doesn't look good at all at 60%.

[verbal raft]

other games:66% is quality 58%balanced 50%performance and i think ultra performance is 33%

[night girder]

btw, another good game to benchmark is RD2.

I had some fun finding the right upscaling in that game 😄

[verbal raft]

i dont have that game

😭

[night girder]

Fair, it's a good game too.

Maybe for steam sales in a month? If you really want it 🙂

Anyway, it's used a lot for benchmarking.

[verbal raft]

im not realy into games like that

[night girder]

That's fine

Other than that there is cyberpunk 😛

[verbal raft]

TSR still with these random pixels maaam

[night girder]

XESS looks like minecraft

both look pretty bad ngl

[verbal raft]

same here

[night girder]

but the random pixels is really messed up

like some sort of grain effect

[verbal raft]

its meant to be a stress test to see all upscalers at their worst

[night girder]

Yeah, fair, but still.

I don't know which I want when I look at both of them.

How noticable are the pixels zoomed out?

[verbal raft]

extremly

[night girder]

Oh hell no.

[verbal raft]

i think FSR looks best in this example

especially when it comes to image stability

[night girder]

it's really sharp though

[verbal raft]

you can turn the sharpening pass off

[night girder]

but out of the box it is more sharp than xess

[verbal raft]

this is how r.fidelityFX.FSR3.sharpness 0

[night girder]

XESS also has more brighter spots.

[verbal raft]

you mean like on the pipe?

[night girder]

Left is XESS

[verbal raft]

could just be time of day

[night girder]

right in the center, you have shiny parts.

Could be.

[verbal raft]

i personaly like the sharpnes

moving on

next is the shimmer test (XESS VS FSR)

accidentally selected TSR

so in terms of ghosting XESS wins by a mile (or i dont even know what artifact im looking at with FSR)

here too

these trees are more stabil with FSR

in fact everything is more stabil with FSR

next TSR VS FSR

[edgy hazel]

I mean at some point we're going into the territory of pixel peeping

this is all at motion isn't it?

[verbal raft]

the newer stuff is in motion

[edgy hazel]

yeah so isn't it mostly irrelevant to actual gaming?

I mean yeah for cs2 and stuff like that sure but you're not playing that with FSR/XESS/TSR

[verbal raft]

do you mean that because this is in motion it isnt relevent to actual gaming?

[edgy hazel]

half/half

[night girder]

The thing is, pixels are the difference. Look at those two.

[verbal raft]

maybe

[night girder]

From what i've seen, TSR is the weakest at 60%.

[night girder]

XESS and FSR look alike. So I guess it's up to FPS.

[verbal raft]

especially because of its halucinations

though from what ive seen FSR is sharper than TSR but has more ghosting (in motion)

[night girder]

I cannot handle the ghosting of FSR.

[verbal raft]

your preference

[night girder]

And I mean that in this specific game.

Don't want to say FSR has the same issue in other games.

[verbal raft]

TSR VS XESS is next

[night girder]

I was watching other games that did the same comparison. And I didn't notice much ghosting.

[verbal raft]

FSR 3.1 has more ghosting than previous versions but has more image stability

[verbal raft]

you were probably playing a game with FSR 2.2 or FSR 3.0

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMn263qVwCI

Look how bad it is.

That's FSR 2.1

[verbal raft]

FSR runs better

[verbal raft]

yeah saw it

[night girder]

DLSS is winner imo.

XESS in the middle.

[verbal raft]

DLSS is the upscaling king for a reason

im going to grab some 100% and maybe 75% footage

[verbal raft]

also that must be a prety old video

[night girder]

2 years

[dire igloo]

tbf, the trustworthiness of that source is highly questionable.
fwiw, it could be another UBM guy trying to manipulate supposedly fair comparisons against AMD

[night girder]

i've posted selfmade videos showing ghosting with FSR.

So, I take the video more serious since I experienced it myself.

[verbal raft]

i can also confirm that FSR has ghosting present in certain scenarious

[edgy hazel]

Same but oh no a little bit of ghosting for 50fps more 😱

[verbal raft]

im going to have TAA in for 100% res as well

[night girder]

we are aware of that

but I rather have not the extra FPS and no ghosting. win-win.

[edgy hazel]

I assume most people are using the quality purest for a few more fps. Ghosting is a non issue there

[night girder]

other upscalers don't have it as bad

[verbal raft]

oooooof TAA and that power line are not friends

[night girder]

and you still save more frames. Not more than FSR, but more than no upscaling.

[night girder]

what powerline? 😂

[verbal raft]

OMG TSR halucinates at 100%too

[night girder]

I don't notice it.

[verbal raft]

FSR and XESS are perfectly stabil everywhere here

[verbal raft]

maybe has something to do with lumen

or the rare AMD driver bug

TAA and TSR arent stabil in these places:

TSR is better than TAA though

at 75% FSR is still perfectly stabil

XESS is slightly unstabil here

and here

big screenshot dump

also...

in this particular frame TSR was faster than XESS

here is what each of them ran like in the 60% setting

[stray badger]

imo xess wins here

[twin dew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzrZoVKT8gM

The Mad

How To Not Get Self-Designed PCB

PCB prototype production services exist for a reason.

[safe trench]

are 3000 series good

or are 2000 series good

just wana know the comparison

[twin dew]

Ryzens?
Pretty old at this point to get.
If you already own, depending on use, might be good idea to get 5700X3D to replace.

(Yes, I know you probably meant Nvidia GeForces, but you didn't specify anything specific 😜)

[gilded helm]

Sandy Bridge 😶‍🌫️

[safe trench]

say.

your.

name.

[twin dew]

Why would I?

[soft bloom]

i think combination of 3 phrases is just proper good

[visual tree]

I like this idea but any normal scammer will immediately notice he is talking to AI https://youtu.be/RV_SdCfZ-0s?si=VTCbybrdtofGmp2y

Also, scammers use different numbers and sometimes clone numbers so I am not really sure if this will help

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qx_bdFSSuc&t=268s

Playing Doom Eternal in 4K on raspberry Pi

[stray badger]

i wish there were more radeon pro laptops

[ivory rampart]

thats long fixed, no?

[verbal raft]

should be

[verbal raft]

i decided to compare FSR to TSR in ark ascended (left side is TSR right side is FSR)

and both are at 60%

[safe trench]

mission imposssible:
UNNOTICABLE COMING

[verbal raft]

here is the overall image

[safe trench]

cannot notice anything

[safe trench]

we have to cook|| cat gun pfp images ||

[verbal raft]

in the overall it IS difficult to see but when you play the game you can see TSR flickering all over the place

[safe trench]

oh

[verbal raft]

also when i start moving TSR applies a soft blur

(TSR is on the right this time)

for some reason FSR just isnt rendering those little peices of grass

and they both have this weird blocky thing around the trees

[glossy glacier]

I guess they get lost in the sand

[verbal raft]

here is the overall

[glossy glacier]

Seems like a texture issue then

[verbal raft]

FSR is more flickery in motion (this doesnt demonstrate it very well)

the TSR blur is strong with this one

FSR has the tieniest amount more ghosting

and i think they have about the same amount of pixelation here

the water looks pixelated with FSR

[verbal raft]

at 100% they look extremly similar

except for the place where FSR doesnt render this little bit of foliage

and FSR makes the water look pixelated

but TSR still has more flickering

once again the TSR blur is real

but so is the FSR pixelation

the timing was a bit mis aligned (so i took 2 screenshots)

TSR still with its blur

and then FSR is a little pixelated

[gilded helm]

HUB continues to talk about CPU limited gaming while sticking to the same limited subset of games, only throwing in a quoted GN Tweet about Stellaris. 🤦

[safe trench]

are 3000 series good
or are 2000 series good
just wana know the comparison
(nvidia geforces)

[gilded helm]

Yes.

[safe trench]

wdym

like

[gilded helm]

Ask better questions, get better answers.

Any given 2000 or 3000 series card will run any game. Some better or worse than others.

[safe trench]

you make google sound informiatve

[gilded helm]

#off-topic-tech message

[pure karma]

none of them because none of them are going to fit in your $0.50 budget

[gilded helm]

Example of a better question: what's the best card for [budget] in [region] if I play [list of example games].

[willow pike]

a 2080 ti is faster than a 3050, therefore 2000 better

thought really you should get a radeon 7600 because it's a bigger number

[stray badger]

Nah, 9800GT is what they really need

Bigger number

[glossy glacier]

Xs make everything faster. This is why the XFX RX 7900 XTX is the fastes GPU to date

[willow pike]

ah yes of course, but then we gotta bow down to the XFX RX 580 GTS XXX

[tough owl]

thats my favorite gpu

[gilded helm]

I will be amazed if next gen GPUs launch without some sort of AI branding.

[soft bloom]

honestly, i wait more for when AMD enters market of server AI-training units

(well technically they have stuff like MI200, but i didn't hear anyone being amased by it)

[gilded helm]

The pointless AI naming in Ryzen mobile is hopefully just an aberration, but I think it's more likely to spread.

[languid gulch]

i suspect we'll see it until there's some seriously bad press around the term, then it'll stop

[twin dew]

Well, not that pointless right now.
As Win11 24H2 has some features that are only available if your CPU has 40 TOPS or higher performance NPU.

And those specific CPUs are the only AMD ones that fulfill the requirement.

[dire igloo]

2070 = 3060
3060 Ti < 2080 Ti < 3070 ≈ Titan RTX

This is using 3dcenter's GPU performance comparison chart for 1080p

[dire igloo]

If you want a better answer, you gotta be more specific with your questions.
"Is XYZ good" is a pointless question to ask without giving any info on what you consider good or bad

Aristotle discusses the Forms of Good in critical terms several times in both of his major surviving ethical works, the Eudemian and Nicomachean Ethics. Aristotle argues that Plato's Form of the Good does not apply to the physical world, for Plato does not assign "goodness" to anything in the existing world. Because Plato's Form of the Good does not explain events in the physical world, humans have no reason to believe that the Form of the Good exists and the Form of the Good thereby, is irrelevant to human ethics.

[finite ravine]

I would guess we will see more of the NPU stuff we already have in Smartphone processors in "normal CPUs"...

[twin dew]

Microsoft mandated that computer/laptop must have 40+ TOPS NPU to be able to be "CoPilot+", and to be able to use all the 24H2 features on the "AI" front.

[night girder]

Baldur, I have a port on my switch, that remains powered on after turning my PC off. I though it was magic package, but I disabled it on my PC side. What else can it be? My NAS ports on the switch and my macbook port don't have this issue.

[twin dew]

Because your PC keeps its LAN powered with MB standby power.

Most MB don't even have setting to disable that in BIOS, it just is.

[night girder]

No!

[twin dew]

Those magic packet etc. settings are just what is allowed to wake the PC over that limited link.

[night girder]

PC no power = switch port powered on.

I disable magic package in BIOS. And Windows.

[twin dew]

And if you check, you will see that the PCs LAN port lights are also on while the PC is off.

[night girder]

even if MB doesn't have power, the port is on low power mode?

[twin dew]

MB always has power, when the PSU has power.

[night girder]

Like I take out the power chord of my PC, and on my switch the port is still active.

[twin dew]

5V standby line.

[night girder]

I keep saying.

No power. No chord. Switched off. The back button.

[twin dew]

Ok, that is then weird.
If it still has link while the PSU is fully off.

[night girder]

I even waited 20 seconds.

So, it must be the switch itself for some reason. Mhh.

[twin dew]

What happens if you change the network cord to another switch port?

[night girder]

Let me check.

[twin dew]

Might stay on even without LAN cord, which would tell that the control for that LED on the switch side is broken.

Those LEDs are software controlled by the switches microcontroller/CPU.
And then that causes a LED driver to change the state.
And fault in either that LED driver, or the CPU code or like etc. can cause one to get stuck always on.

[night girder]

So, it also happens to other ports. But if my NAS switches off, those ports go out. And same for macbook pro. It's only with my PC it's happening atm.

I took out the chord of my PC for 20 seconds again, the port remains orange.

I will check switch side to see what's going on.

[twin dew]

Normally that "turn PC off" means just shutting it down, but keeping the PSU connected, and in that case the MB still has that 5V standby power running to it.
You only specified fully that the PSU input is disabled much later.

Do the PC side LAN port light also stay on?

[night girder]

PC no power = switch port powered on.

[night girder]

No

[twin dew]

Try turning the computer on with PSU disconnected.
The MB and PSU capacitors can hold charge for long time.

[night girder]

Because the PC has no power 😄

[twin dew]

That was inconclusive in my head, because for most consumers, that would still have PSU on with power cable connected.

Because most just don't know that PC off isn't power disconnected.

That try to turn the computer on without PSU getting power will discharge all the stuff fast, to real off state for the MB.

Otherwise I have seen MB status lights staying on for over a minute after removing power cord while in turned off mode.

[night girder]

still powered on, orange. even after holding button to discharge

out of curiosity I switched the lan cable from port while PC was fully turned off. And then the light doesn't go on.

[twin dew]

And that changed between switch ports?
And disappears when you disconnect the LAN cable from the computer?

[edgy hazel]

What switch

[night girder]

I think my switch keeps the port active for some reason, netgear S305 if I remember correctly.

[twin dew]

So that would point to a firmware bug in the switch.
That it doesn't properly detect the loss of link with the PC and turn the LED off.

[night girder]

GS308T sorry

[twin dew]

Until the cable is disconnected physically.

[night girder]

Ok, will see if I can reset switch or update it.

[twin dew]

If it was something on the PC end, the LED would turn back on once the cable is reconnected.

[night girder]

I noticed it last night when I went to bed, didn't trust it, so I pulled out cable to be sure 😛

[night girder]

Yeah, and the lan port would also have power on the PC. I would assume.

Unless power can travel through the PC lan port, without going through the led, which I don't think is possible.

[twin dew]

There is no power in normal LAN links.
And the LEDs are not connected to the actual link pins at all, they are purely controlled by the LAN chips on either ends via separate pins.

[night girder]

Have to go for now. Will keep you posted. Thanks for input Baldur 👍

[night girder]

Lame.

[mental oriole]

Got to love when tools to assist just fail because of shitty implementation.

Use jira to create branch, branch name too long. Refuses to truncate name...

[night girder]

Ok, so I am tweaking around in my switch interface. I enabled EEE mode and Auto Power Down Mode for all my ports to test it out.

Now if I power of my PC (take button back at the PC) the port switches off.

If I turn back power to PSU (back button at PC), the port switches on. So now it's clearly something my PC is keep alive and I don't know why.

I disabled magic packet and PCIE in bios.

PCIE Device Power -> Disabled

Windows side:

Overlooked one.

That was it.

I didn't expect windows to take priority over BIOS. But I think it's a race condition, Windows shuts down, tells switch to standby for package for WOL, switch receives and keeps port active.

Then PC turns off, motherboard turns off and there is no WOL active at my PC side, but my switch doesn't know that, since , my PC told my switch there is WOL (Windows).

[twin dew]

Yeah, on Windows side there is that one toggle on many of the LAN cards that puts the basic tech on or off.
And then various "Wake on ..." options to select which methods are supported.
Then another under that Power Management tab if Windows will react to wake signal from the card or not.

But anything under that Advanced tab is LAN driver specific.

None of it is standard Windows functionality, but drivers options that it exposes.

Damn... Didn't check the dashcams old manual, it only support 128GB SD cards as max size and I got 256GB one to replace old 64GB.
Because that 128GB size max is just weird, but it was real.
The camera correctly formatted the card, but cannot use it and just asks to format it again and again.

[pure karma]

happens to the best of us

[soft bloom]

what kind of black magic that is?

[night girder]

Still, didn't expect this behavior. I assumed turning it off in BIOS takes priority over anything driver/OS side.

[twin dew]

That specific setting in BIOS based on the name only manages if UEFI looks for that Magic Packet and starts the computer on it.
Even if OS hasn't done anything.
But it doesn't control the full wake on lan subsystem at all.

[glossy glacier]

In UEFI land the OS can influence BIOS settings.

[twin dew]

But time to go see if doing just 128GB FAT32 partition onto the 256GB card will allow the dashcam to use it.

[soft bloom]

i honestly hate that Windows changes clock in bios every dam time

[glossy glacier]

Dualboot? Tell one OS to not do it

[twin dew]

Both Linux and Windows do that.
But Linux defaults to having the HW clock in UTC, and Windows in local time.
But both allow configuring to the other.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation]
"RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001

[soft bloom]

Yep...

[night girder]

PCIE Devices Power On
[Enabled] Select this item to allow the system to be waked up by a PCIE device and
enable wake on LAN.

source: download.asrock.com/Manual/Software/AMD B650/Software_BIOS Setup Guide_English.pdf

That's all information the manual gives 😦

[glossy glacier]

Windows does not tell the switch anything. It tells the NIC to stay awake for WoL. The switch just sees that something on the other end is still there and keeps the port active

[soft bloom]

ok turn out i should hate Ubuntu for doing that automatically. but i suport having clock in UTC, so i will choose to contniue disliking Windows for having me to re-set it's clock every time

[night girder]

No. That was NOT the case in the beginning.

I could fully power of my PC, chord and everything.

The switch port stayed active. That might have been a bug.

[twin dew]

In this case the Switch thought it had another end when the NIC was completely powered down too.
With power cord removed from the computer.
But seems that the link light in this case works by just the NIC saying "I'm going down, but will still listen, keep the light on" or something like that.

[night girder]

That's what I was saying...

[twin dew]

Yeah, just rewriting.

[night girder]

Thanks 😊

[glossy glacier]

Normally that's the case. Exceptions, like in your case, exist.

I have a mini PC that won't power down the NIC period. (As long as it has power)

[night girder]

I enabled EEE mode and Auto Power Down Mode for troubleshooting (switch-side), I put them back to default and it all works perfectly now. So it was the toggle "Shutdown Wake-On-Lane" I missed causing the confussion.

Maybe I am too paranoid, I don't know. Don't like ports enabled when devices powered off 😄

[twin dew]

But didn't work.
The camera detected the partition size correctly, but still wanted to format.
Might be doable with some extra tweaking, but I'll just use the 256GB card in Pi for now.
And have two 64GB cards in the car, and get 128GB card later.

[night girder]

I still need a good dashcam. Waiting for black friday.

and a good robot cleaner.

[twin dew]

Got this set in 2018 with GPS and hardwiring addons: https://dashboardcamerareviews.com/mini-0906/
Would need to look at replacement at some point.

About 100e for full set back then.

But not for sale anymore.

[night girder]

The thing is, I once asked a local police officer if I can use my dashcam to report infrictions. And they told me, it had little legal ground for police cases.

Maybe it has more value for court cases.

Because the main reason I want it, is because if some dumbo crashes into my car, I have more proof I did nothing wrong.

[twin dew]

Wanted bigger card, as that 64GB one can only store about 4 hours worth for both cameras at best quality.

[night girder]

Does it have motion detection?

Ah I guess that's parking mode.

[twin dew]

Yes.

Was mainly about being able to get specific part of long trip after the trip has ended.
Where nothing real happened but wanted something smaller.

And didn't want to stop to mark specific part as something not to be overwritten.

[night girder]

So, you want it more as footage of the trip itself?

[twin dew]

Yes.
The point of the second card (had crap 16GB card before as backup) is so you can switch the card if something happened.

[night girder]

Don't people use a Go-Pro for that because of the image quality?

[twin dew]

Just for something that happened during.
Not as expected before starting the trip recording.

But wasn't crash or like, where the recording would actually be needed.

And wanted after the fact recheck what had happened, but couldn't as the recording was already overwritten in one case at least etc.

Don't currently use the parking guard, as that still uses almost 0.5W of power, almost same power usage as full recording.
Even if only set to take one frame per 15 seconds always, or full speed with motion detection, or both.
The hardwiring kit has battery low monitor and cutoff, but if on, will get to that level in few days max, depending on what voltage level you set as the cutoff.

Added physical switch I can use to switch between the power delivery versions.

If the HW PSU gets full time power or just when the car is on.

[night girder]

0.5W doesn't sound bad

[twin dew]

Ah, sorry, 0.5A.

400-500mA depending on settings etc.

But that might have been the 5V amperage after the kit.
So less on the 12V side.

But when normal car batteries have 20-50Ah capacity in total, IIRC.
Edit: Ok, Go up to around 100Ah for normal car batteries, and higher for larger diesels etc.

Almost miniscule usage while the car is running, but very high for constantly on load while the car is shut down.

But with lead-acid batteries, only pretty small percentage of that is actually usable in constant use, somewhere around 25% IIRC?

And also need to keep enough charge to actually start the car too 😉

[night girder]

Yeah, that's the main issue 😄

don't want a drained battery

[tribal kraken]

My 3D scanner (3DMakerpro Lynx) arrived and this is how about 2h self training results looks like this with 2 combined scans:

To me looks really good

[jagged snow]

How's the dimensional accuracy?

[tribal kraken]

Looking at how it picked up the cast numbers and cat logo, its less than 1mm but will do some measuring tomorrow

[soft bloom]

I wonder if it's worth the trouble and will actually be faster to call a process pool executor to compress and save 20MB string

[jagged snow]

Certainly acceptable

[verbal raft]

why do i feel like this is a scam

[twin dew]

Trying to get people hooked on the extras.

[visual tree]

The caliper measure is around 145,60 mm if my eyes still serve me right?

[tribal kraken]

Yes

[twin dew]

But neither seems to have been trying to get that accurate result.
And if the mismatch is same in all directions, you can just calibrate.

[visual tree]

Learning how to read calipers back in elementary school paid off

[twin dew]

Etc.
The result doesn't need to be exact on the measurements without any work, if it can be easily made to match.

[visual tree]

Although it will be harder to read as your vision gets worse

[night girder]

I got that too 😂

[rapid ether]

got my dad a digital one a few years ago for that reason 😄

[visual tree]

I am considering getting a digital caliper too because reading classic (vernier) calipers hurts my eyes

[twin dew]

But anyways, now I got two sets of double-shot PBT keycaps \o/

To replace the original painted ABS keycaps, even when they haven't lost any of the paint yet in multiple years of use.

[pure karma]

its never free... it costs your credit card info

[twin dew]

"Nice"... Bought Seagate HDD from one of the retailers on Seagates own list for Finland.
And the drive has sticker saying the warranty is only valid in China.

But on other hand, the Seagate site where you can input country and serial said that the warranty was valid...

[winged valley]

I bought a 16pm from one of my parts vendors bc they had one new in box for somehow cheaper than retail

New phone time

Before anyone says stolen or whatever, I thought that too but it activated just fine

So yeah idk must be a B2B thing

[twin dew]

And my plans for cooling the drive in the enclosure just went out of the door.
4TB drive is not full height one, only 20.20mm high and not 26.11mm high.
Which the datasheet told, but I didn't think to look.

Well, will need to place the thermal pad material between the spindle on the drive underside, and not on the top cover.

With full height drive, there would have been about 3mm gap between the top and the case, but now there is 9mm gap.

Fortunately the average operating power is only 3.7W for this lower platter count version, when it is 5.0W for the 6TB model that is the first full-height model, and 8.7W for the 8TB model

And fortunately that spindle motor is where lot of the power usage comes from directly.
Unfortunately the usable underside area is much lower than the topside area:

Different model with different sticker, but same metal part:

[twin dew]

In the end, needed 3mm of Arctic TP-3 on the spindle underside, and then put 7mm of the stuff on the other side to keep the underside pressed against the outer casing.
1mm thick sheet turned over three times and then one layer removed when the 8mm stack couldn't be inserted once the drive was in position.

Time to connect it to the computer and put self-test on, and monitor drive temperatures.

And mistake.
The enclosure didn't come with any kind of USB cable, and the only USB 3.0 Full-B cable I have is very short...

No, I'm just stupid.
There was cable inside cardboard "spacer"

[night girder]

Asrock is going to bring PSU's on the market.

And it has optional feature to prevent voltage drop by providing 5,2V instead of 5V...

and ntc-sensors in the power cable of the GPU that can measure the temperature and shut down incase of overheating

[twin dew]

Couldn't easily start the SMART self test, so just went with full formatting.
Writing "only" at 37.5MB/s with spikes to little above, with 500ms average response time.
But as the important thing, the drive temperatures is still just 34C.

70C listed as the maximum operating temperature for the drive reported temperature.

No, that was for the bigger model, 65C for this one.

So the specific USB dock is significantly limiting the transfer speeds, but not enough for it to be problem in the intended usage.

Wonder if there is some kind of connection problem and it dropped to USB2 speed connection?

No, just the sync writing Windows was doing by default.
Changed the USB drive mode from Quick removal to Better performance and now writing at 186MB/s.

216MB/s now.

[twin dew]

Up to 41 C drive temp.

[night girder]

How come Quick Removal has less performance?

[twin dew]

Because that controls if everything is done synchronously (no data loss on removal), or if all the normal ways to make writes faster are in use, but that can lead to data loss if the drive is disconnected or loses connection in middle of a write.

[night girder]

I guess IO operations are throttled or something when doing quick removal? Or there is extra mechanism.

[twin dew]

Because people have been stupid and just take the USB drives out without using the "eject" mechanic.

So the default was changed long time ago.

[jagged snow]

When not using quick remove, writes are cached

So they appear to happen more quickly but they're actually cached on your machine and finished in the background

[twin dew]

And fed to the drive in large transactions, not in minimal steps.

[night girder]

I still do eject 😂

Even for USB drives.

[twin dew]

Not really relevant to this, when I'm doing 4TB write.
Just that synchronous with minimal steps vs. asynchronous with large transfers.

Well, almost synchronous.

Because this is just format doing full drive 0-byte-write.

So the write caching itself doesn't do much in this case.

When the one write string will take multiple hours.

Only that write size difference.
When the Quick Removal needs to do things in inefficient way to keep the amount of data in flight to minimum.
And Better Performance can just hammer the drive with as much of max size transfers it can.

Including using the drives own write caching to do continous writing, instead of those more controlled writes that cause the drive to do reseeks etc.

Not just the OS side write caching and combining.

[night girder]

There are so many interesting things happening with I/O that most common people don't even know. Like when you delete a file. The data is not overwritten instantly. Else it would be 2 writes. One write to overwrite it with 0. Then another write when new data is stored.

Instead the reference in the master file table is deleted (so like a pointer). And thus there is only 1 write. Since there is no reference, the data will be overwritten somewhere in the future.

And that's why you have secure erase etc. But who knows stuff like this?

[twin dew]

With HDDs, or SSDs without TRIM/DISCARD.

SSD with TRIM, there are garbage collection passes that actually delete the data once large enough part of the erase area is marked for TRIM.
As changing bits in one direction can be done one-by-one, in other direction only in large chunks.

Where that TRIM/DISCARD allows the OS to inform the drive that the specific LBA isn't valid data anymore and can be safely reused.

[night girder]

What we do for performance/optimization

[jagged snow]

And that's without accounting for the lower-level firmware/software or event delving into the hardware side of things, which is just as, if not more, complex

[night girder]

For sure.

[jagged snow]

And really a deep understanding of what's going on with the hardware is what even most people with advanced knowledge are missing

[glossy glacier]

Very true

[jagged snow]

It's a big pet peeve of mine when people that work with software try to brush away the hardware side of things and pretend they don't really matter because thier python script is platform-agnostic

[glossy glacier]

Oh yes. You can get quite the speed ups if you choose data structures that benefit you access patterns. But for that the programmer needs to understand how the data structure is stored/accessed

[twin dew]

42C, while on wooden desk in 23C room, so seems the heat transfer is good enough.
The aluminum outer case is warm to touch, but not excessively so, but it is right way around, so I cannot touch the bottom where the best heat transfer should be.

[night girder]

True, same with cars. A lot of people can drive and use a car, but who really knows whats going on under the hood. Especially in these days with all the new technology.

[jagged snow]

Modern cars require just as dep an understanding of the tech side as the mechanical side

[night girder]

Yes.

Take throttle for example. And this explenation:

1. One type has a mechanical cable to open the throttle, and the other has electrical cable.

2. The electrical one uses an adjustable resistor (potentiometer) on the pedal side and an electrical motor on the throttle side. By using an electrical system, you avoid the transfer of noise and vibration, and you also eliminate friction in the throttle cable.

[jagged snow]

Throttle-by-wire has been around for ages, thankfully

[night girder]

The first one, looks to me, more simple than our modern solution. Although our modern one is better, just a tiny bit more complex.

Since you have adjustable resistor at pedal side and a electrical motor on throttle side.

[jagged snow]

The issue is that you already need a throttle position sensor even with mechanical throttle

[night girder]

Just as a simple example 😉

[jagged snow]

And mechanical throttle is actually more prone to sticking

[jagged snow]

So really you move the throttle position sensor to the pedal instead of the throttle body and then put a closed loop actuator on the throttle body

[night girder]

This looks and sounds simpler. Not saying it is. But my instincts say this is much simpler 😄

[twin dew]

Only when you don't have cruise control or like etc.

And doing that kind of cable run without it causing issues isn't that easy to route etc.

[night girder]

But that's kind the point I made, PC and cars got more and more complex because we keep adding features and keep optimizing.

And other things. Like a photo camera used to be simple.

Camera Obscura

Modern day camera:

[jagged snow]

Yep, more and more complex at the cost of more and more capability

[night girder]

For me, it's so hard to keep up with all these technologies.

[jagged snow]

My issues with modern vehicles is that they're adding complexity without benefitting capability

[night girder]

Example?

[jagged snow]

It's my full-time hobby and even then you can really only get a surface level understanding if you want to cover a broad selection of fields

[night girder]

And you have to cherry pick?

I don't assume you know every part of cars AND DSLR camera's AND PC's.

[jagged snow]

Digital climate controls

[night girder]

cherry pick = specialize.

[jagged snow]

I know those three fields much, much better than most

[twin dew]

Cost cutting.

[night girder]

Well, start naming the parts and what they do 😉

[jagged snow]

But at the cost of increased complexity
And the new paradigm of more complex climate control systems really isn't neccecary and is far more expensive down teh road

[twin dew]

Reduced complexity for the manufacturing line.

[jagged snow]

That is true

[night girder]

But yeah, I keep it more high level 🙂 I know what some parts are for a DSLR/Car/PC. But I am no expert.

[jagged snow]

1. Rear lcd
2. Sensor
3. Memory card
4. Battery
5. Integrated flash
6. Mounting flange
7. lens body
   😉

[twin dew]

Fortunately that one got finally pushback from EU regulators.

[night girder]

Haha, yeah those, but I mean every little chip etc 😄

[jagged snow]

Yeah, I know what you mean
I just chose to be a pedant

[twin dew]

IIRC any new model from next few years onwards has to have certain controls, including some of the climate control ones, back to separate controls, and cannot just be on a screen.

[night girder]

And the best part is, slowly there is awereness around repairability of tech. And I think they need to come up with a solution. A bicycle, someone can repair themselves probably. But to repair a laptop is different. My point is, with old technology, it was simpler and one could repair a lot themselves. Now that's no longer the case.

[twin dew]

With later date when everything needs to comply, including older models still being sold.

[jagged snow]

I believe one of those was drive selector as well, right?

[twin dew]

Didn't pay attention, and cannot find source right now.

[night girder]

So while things get more and more complex, goverments are demanding those complex tech, to be repairable more easy.

[jagged snow]

Yep
One of my primary life goals is to be capable on pretty much the broadest terms I can

[night girder]

cough cough **apple ** cough cough

[twin dew]

Ah, NCAP (safety testing) is having some specific ones as needing to be not on screen, in pushback to Model 3 type idiocy too.

So it wasn't regulation, just the safety testing scoring getting changed.

[jagged snow]

And I very passionately make an effort to do taht
I have never in my life paid for someone else to repair something, even if it takes me far longer than it's worth to do it myself

[night girder]

you don't buy Apple macbook

[twin dew]

There was also some movement on that climate control etc. controls front.

[jagged snow]

Yes, I intentionally buy things that I know are more repairable
I still drive a 20yo vehicle

Because I'm confident enough to attempt most any repair on it

[twin dew]

With testing having been done on how much worse those are for safety already.
The amount of "heads down" time needed for basic actions was just horrible with those.

[night girder]

I hope they (the law) never force you to buy a modern car.

[jagged snow]

I am pretty confident with working on those as well

The primary issue is that many repairs are locked behind proprietary software and hardware tools on the electrical side

Diagnosing issues is more complicated, but electrically they're still very simple compared to devices and mechanically they're rather similar

(compared to older vehicles)

[night girder]

There is so much stuff, old cars didn't have.

Sensors mostly.

[jagged snow]

Yep
Lots of sensors

[twin dew]

Not really, you need to go into 90s cars to get less for most part.

[night girder]

Do you know Mat Armstrong?

A Youtuber, who buys cars that are totalled. And then fixes them.

He and his dad don't do anything else than that. And when I see all the cables and technology of a stripped modern car. It's insane.

[jagged snow]

It is

The most important thing with cars is that they're broken down into discrete, simple systems

And it's a very useful skill to be able to isolate those

[night girder]

Can't find the video, he has so many lol.

But it was just one big pile of cables, cables, cables, all electronic ofc.

From one car 😂

I don't understand how they can put the cars back together, how they remember what is what.

[gilded helm]

It's a testament to the momentum of legacy systems that the sheer amount of electrical crap in cars hasn't pushed them to 48v just to cut the literal weight and space of wires.

[twin dew]

And that pile is probably smaller in todays car than one from 2005-2010.

[night girder]

eh, I think it was from a VERY fancy car.

[twin dew]

Yeah, but move the CANBUS etc. lowered the amount of wiring significantly.
And the fancy cars in that time frame already had most of the sensor shit, outside of the semi-self-driving ones.

[night girder]

so, expensive car, with a lot of features, needs lots of cables.

[twin dew]

You would be suprised how much wiring there is already in 90s basic car.

[jagged snow]

Can lowered wiring requirements in a lot of ways but also led to a more distributed compute architecture which meant it really wasn't that much lower

[jagged snow]

Even just stereo and power locks and windows adds up to a lot

[twin dew]

When the main runs are size of your wrist already in some specific places.

[night girder]

Wiring of ENGINE of a Audi RS6 GT3