off-topic-tech

[willow pike]

and yet is still more efficient than anything intel

are they on the same node?

[verbal raft]

and perform better

[pure karma]

well most of us if not all of us that are regularly here arent from the US so why bother arguing over stuff that in the end dosent mean anything for us

[verbal raft]

intel is on N3 AMD is N4 i think

and N6 for the IO die

[willow pike]

they're a node ahead?

how did they fuck it so much they're even behind the non X3D parts

and N4 is a half node of 5nm

I know N3 isn't the best but it's a little better than N4

[verbal raft]

im curious just how much the node shrink did for intel

[willow pike]

even if 18A shits gold they can't catch up to that

and if it did, AMD would use MI300 tech to compete

i am focusing on intel being shit in the hope it can distract me from the world being on fire and it isn't working

[pure karma]

yea every 30+GB of ram usage screenshot i have seen most likely originated from that because it has no shame in slaughtering ram

[crystal hound]

please remember to not discuss politics and related topics here. thank you

[soft bloom]

Server or channel?

[mental oriole]

@soft bloom server. (#rules)

Although refain != do not

[twin dew]

Well, my life would get somewhat easier if I did get banned from this Discord...

[soft bloom]

True, so question is if mods want this part of offtopic to be turned down a notch or just non-existent

[waxen laurel]

MAN. the 9800x3D has been a slam dunk

[crystal hound]

server-wide like the rules state 😉

[willow pike]

it is difficult to not acknowledge the elephant in the room causing everyone to be extremely depressed today

[crystal hound]

it is very easy, actually

[willow pike]

though i am Not willing to ""debate"" anyone on it or get into it. just real sad.

i'm gonna go take a nap

[crystal hound]

have a good one 🙂

[tough owl]

🤐

[jagged snow]

If you're extremely depressed about that, whichever way the results go, you should re-evaluate your priorities

[tough owl]

That too

[visual tree]

Noticed a local store trying to scam customers with black friday discounts...

Left price is from february 2024 and the right price is from november 2024

This is why I never buy products on black friday

[mental oriole]

60usd drop on the original price is a scam?

[visual tree]

I always ignore the crossed price since it's used to trick you. The price was 219 eur in february and now the black friday "deal" is 229 eur

They could say the original price is 500 eur and they offer ssd for "only" 229 eur in order to mislead people thinking they are getting an excellent deal

[soft bloom]

prices in local stores for everyday products is basically a gamble. since summer i noticed too many cases "discounts" that are more expensive than day before without it

[visual tree]

The worst trick I hate is when they cross the original price which was never actually an original price

So much for the theory that black friday is cheaper lol

[brazen moat]

Only one solution to this: Needs a law that forces them to always add the cheapest price on which they have sold the article in the last 30 days. Actually the case in germany though they are still fighting in out in the courts on how visible it must be

[visual tree]

Wish we had a website like geizhals.de for tracking historical prices

Correction: we have but it only shows the price change in the last 3 months which is useless imo

They should have a longer time range

[gilded helm]

So much for Intel springing for N3 on Arrow Lake.

[willow pike]

arrow lake is N3B

[gilded helm]

Yes. Way more expensive than N4 used for Ryzen 9000, and yet Intel is underperforming pretty much across the board.

[willow pike]

and with allegedly superior chiplet tech

it is... vexing

[gilded helm]

It doesn't matter how good your packaging is if the chiplets themselves suck 😛

[willow pike]

• memory controller has flat out worse latency by itself
• chiplet tech always adds some latency, you must compensate for it
• arrow lake does not do this, it has the same amount of L3
• the ring bus is fucked and doesn't run as fast as it should
• the core config is absolutely batty nuggets and games don't know what to do with 8 big no-hyperthreading cores and 16 shitlets

but what gets me most is, even in benchmarks and tests that don't give a fuck about any of that, it is still less efficient than amd

iron clad proof intel's core designs are shit tier inefficient garbage

[gilded helm]

128W during Cinebench multicore according to HUB, I would love to see the 9800X3D in a laptop.

[willow pike]

given they can clock the things properly i can't wait to see a 9950X3D

that cache helped even productivity, didn't see that coming

hopefully zen 6 moves to SoIC stacking for chiplets rather than the current basic packaging

(3D stacking compute die on top of IO die)

[gilded helm]

The dream is also a fully Vcache design along with that, all/most L3 moved to another layer, IO moved to yet another layer, so you can have a base die that's almost nothing but logic.

For all chips, GPU too.

[willow pike]

the IO die on MI300 has cache built into it, and some rumours suggest future CCDs won't have any L3 cache at all, it'll be only vcache

could probably get away with 64MB L3 rather than 96MB if the IO die is also directly connected

[gilded helm]

I have no doubt it's being tested and given preliminary designs, it just comes down to cost, yield, and performance sims.

[willow pike]

'course with intel shitting the bed AMD could decide to... not

10800X3D could be a 10% boost, same IO die 8 core

[gilded helm]

At the end of the day gamers are a tiny market, so we need to hope there's an enterprise use case where we catch the drippings.

[willow pike]

nothing ended up happening with the MI300C so maybe there's no market for it

(MI300 with 12 CCDs and no GPU)

[gilded helm]

Watching Wendel now, he's especially impressed with 1% lows.

[soft bloom]

Any chips that have "ai" cores?

[glossy glacier]

Ryzen AI mobile chips, intel lunar & arrow lake

they have an integrated NPU

[gilded helm]

I'm curious if NPUs are a thing to be avoided for a few years, just because I don't trust Windows to avoid stutters due to bad scheduling/communication with NPUs.

[cyan crescent]

Whats the difference between a 990 evo and evo plus?

[willow pike]

if you have a desktop GPU you don't need an NPU

even a radeon will do you very well for ai

[stray badger]

probably dram

no actually, the plus can do 2x5.0

no dram on either

[languid gulch]

wild question: in windows 10, is there a way to organize folders & files differently while in the same folder?

[soft bloom]

Sorting?

[languid gulch]

right, like if i wanted to sort folders by name, but the files by date

like i said, kinda wild question, didn't know if i was missing something super obvious under the options

[mental oriole]

Not that I know of, it's universal filter so it's going to sort everything the same way

[safe trench]

let alone trust microsoft with ai in the first place, recall is scary.

[jagged snow]

Organise by type and then I think you can sort those sections it breaks them into individually

[stray badger]

alternative: switch to linux :)

[tough owl]

Alright. I’m in the market for a new laptop. Requirements

1080p minimum
Sodimm ram
Good build quality no plastic in the chassis
Modern amd/intel cpu
Usbc charging. No barrel

All for under 799 before tax

[charred willow]

how modern is modern?

I bought a lenovo X1E Gen2 (P1 G2) and im VERY happy with how it has all worked out. I paid 325 used, I get 4-5~ hours of usable battery, nice matt 1080p screen, 1650ti allows casual 1080 medium gaming

the build quality is very good, with my only complaint being the material being a bit of a fingerprint magnet

it does USB-C charging for full wattage, but for dock you need a proprietary cable to run their format, only annoyance I've had so far.

[maiden coyote]

just get a mac :p

[tough owl]

That’s what I’m trying to beat

[tough owl]

More than 6 cpu cores

6 or more*

[maiden coyote]

1080p gaming?

[tough owl]

Don’t need it to game whatsoever

Need it for vms

[maiden coyote]

how much memory?

the metal chassis thing is probably what

[stray badger]

HP elitebook 845

Used for about 400USD

[maiden coyote]

what's going to do you in. I think the dell latitude systems are plastic. but you're pretty much looking for business laptops

[stray badger]

Can get more expensive but better specs too

Try for a g9

[tough owl]

Doesn’t matter base since I plan on upgrading later

[tough owl]

Tons of vms and general purpose use for school and whatnot

[edgy hazel]

Tons of VMs will probably kill your battery too quick. Consider a small-ish homeserver with xen/proxmox and VPN

[stray badger]

www.ebay.com/itm/296714795143

[glossy glacier]

delete everything after the ?
#KeepLinksShort

[stray badger]

ah forgor to remove the https part

something with a bit more bite (costs more tho): www.ebay.com/itm/205070708526

[stray badger]

only if you keep them open at the same time. Im assuming that they will just be using 1 at a time

[stray badger]

HP uses metal for their business laptops

and it looks like its hit the point that ampere quadro equipped laptops are being sold en masse by corps

this one has a 3060 instead of a quadro: www.ebay.com/itm/116374882899

[maiden coyote]

Yeah, used hp elitebook seems like what you need to look at

[languid gulch]

interesting. have a couple bad batteries for my cordless tools, the mounting clips for them broke. batteries themselves are fine, but i checked the manufacturing date, & they're a whopping 2 serial numbers apart from each other. wonder if there was a manufacturing defect. still under warranty, so gonna see if i can get them replaced

ha. doing a bit more digging & it looks like something wonky was going on in vietnam in december 2022

multiple complaints on reddit & elsewhere about their batteries with those serial numbers

[vocal panther]

Anyone able to recommend a workhorse laptop that can run satisfactory? My old work laptop finally gave out, Ive been using it to game when I travel, and Id like something that I can use for coding work as a daily driver but that can also run my favorite game at least decently. Satisfactory is probably the beefiest thing Id use it for, as the other games I play are older or less graphically intense.

presently borrowing a lenovo legion from a friend, it runs the game but the friend has advised me against the brand

[stray badger]

my legion was okay, but it turned me off gaming laptops. so loud!

[tribal kraken]

Decided to buy first 3D scanner for company. 500€ entry level to see if that price range can beat tape measure for reverse engineering. And reduce CAD work. (Cardboard aided design)

3DMakerpro Lynx. For car sized objects max.

[edgy hazel]

Lmk how good it is

Also would love how good it is for really small stuff

[tribal kraken]

I will. That particular model is not really for small stuff, reason for choosing that was its cababilities to do larger, car sized objects. And a subcontractor who used same model to scan some 500x500x200mm sized parts

These will be my 2 first scans. Tolerances on mating surfaces are in range of +/- 1.0mm on those.

[jagged snow]

Those are pretty ideal geometries to be scanning

[jagged snow]

Might want some targets on the larger flat faces without texture, depending on the scanner technology

[tribal kraken]

Yeah, the manufacturer recommends taping X-pattern on flats. But Guess i could also just make texture grinding some rust off. As the second part will be painted anyway after welding on a excvator bucket.

[languid gulch]

also that kind of scanning can be good for making 3d printed mods to the item

[gilded helm]

Interesting thoughts from Eric Berger as usual. Especially about the potential killing of SLS as a political test regarding killing jobs in red States.
https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/11/space-policy-is-about-to-get-pretty-wild-yall/

[willow pike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6HZlpPGFf0

absolutely get fucked

[stray badger]

I guess im really never getting a mac then lmfao

[soft bloom]

"framework" laptop ftw

[languid gulch]

The good news: noisy case fan was on the cpu

The bad news: both cpu fans are daisy chained

[languid gulch]

cleaned the crap out of it as a last ditch to see if it was salvageable, & nope, still screaming at me

extra dumb because they're the newest fans in my system

just gonna run on the 1 fan and keep the case open for now 🤣

[stray badger]

P12s are cheap and good

[soft bloom]

hmmm, noisy fans. reminds me of those time when it's a bit colder and on start by back push fan makes weird noise. in the past it was very rare and 1 handslap would fix the noise. but lanter it stopped helping. and now i know i can just wait til it fixes itself

[languid gulch]

it's the cheapo thermalright ones that come with the assassin 120SE

[tribal kraken]

Put in order for a AMD 9800X3D, Asus X870E Crosshair MB and 96 GB 6400MTs CL32 kit. Also Alphacool core1 CPU block. Delivery date: mystery

[twin dew]

Remember to test the RAM after assembly, as 6400MT/s is maybe 50/50 to be stable.

6200MT/s should be 90+%, 6000MT/s 99+%

[tribal kraken]

Yeah. Doesn't really matter if it's run 6400 or 6000. I have the Karhu memtester

[twin dew]

And that by default the IMC will switch to 1:2 mode when the RAM is above 6000, and that needs to manually set to 1:1 in BIOS.

Or the performance will be terrible.

Just points to know to get good performance with stable system.

[tribal kraken]

Gaming will be good for sure but will do some my own tests with SolidWorks. Opening larger assemblies and rebuilding models with tens of thousands holes, they have been operations where I'm waiting the computer and doing no work. I know opening assemblies relies heavily on storage performance so it will be using same Samsung 980 pro Nvme to see if there's any CPU effects

[twin dew]

That need to force the 1:1 UCLK:MCLK, and that 6400MT/s might not work stable and might need bumping down.

[tribal kraken]

Thanks for the tips, already been playing he same RAM-minigame with my current Intel system, using 4x16GB 6000MTS CL36 kit. 4 sticks is really hard and can only get 4800MTS out of it stable. It boots fine @6000 if bumping up the RAM voltage to 1.5V but will have errors in a hour. 5600 works for gaming at 1.45V but RAM testing will heat it up at that voltage and results in errors, sometime after a hour. Sometimes after 20 hours. But 4800MTS runs error free at 1.4 and Stick temps below 60.

Really dont want to go into subtimings, lots of time spent testing for little gains

Maybe if there were no new games to play, and no work. Good hobby 😄

[twin dew]

For Hynix 6000MT/s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlYxmRcdLVw

Including those 24Gb Hynix M-die.

Two other Buildzoid sets for 6200 and 6400 from some of his recent videos:

Possibly not as true generic as the first one.

Mine, with much lower tREFI to be stable even if the RAM hits high temperatures, which costs significant performance:
45000 was stable if the RAM didn't hit 60+ C.

[tribal kraken]

Is there a online resolver is my memoro A- or M-Die or is serial number needed?

[twin dew]

AFAIK there isn't 24Gb A-die yet.

[tribal kraken]

I see, the kit is Corsair CMK96GX5M2B6400C32

[twin dew]

They are just revisions, for Hynix, M is first revision, A is second, B is third and so on.

For specific DDR and die size combination.

So there is DDR5 16Gb M-die (which I have), then 16Gb A-die which is even better clocker than the 16Gb M-die, and then there is 24Gb M-die, which is better than either of the 16Gb dies.

And that 6400MT/s 96GB kit will almost certainly have that Hynix 24Gb M-die dies.

As the other manufacturers 24Gb dies just don't clock that high.

Default for RAM for long time has been to have 7800ns refresh when below specific temp and 3900ns (IIRC) above it, but my Asus board was just always using the high temp refresh.

Might raise that tREFI now that I have actual data on how hot the RAM gets in use.

Tested with heat gun to heat the RAM, and somewhere above 75C the high tREFI started causing RAM corruption, as the leakage got too fast for the high refresh interval.

[twin dew]

And got Windows 11 to completely barf with too high RAM usage...
Ran Prime95 Large FFTs without hyperthreading behind normal use, with the default RAM usage max.
First browser crashed, then Windows UI crashed.
And I couldn't even start Task Manager, so had to use the reboot in the ctrl+alt+del menu.

Testing how hot the RAM gets, 59C high so far.

Almost to 70C, with 1.35V RAM VDD.

Yeah, stabilized between 69C and 70C.

So I might go to 10000ns or 15000ns refresh rate.

But that very high tREFI is dangerous if you don't have any direct airflow over the RAM.
As it will only cause issues when the RAM heats up with use.

[twin dew]

And got hit by the RAM SPD Hub temperature reporting bug, where some specific chip model sometimes reports certain "bugged" values, whichever one is next up from the real temperature.

[dire igloo]

Oh damn, when did your name become blue, Baldur?

[twin dew]

Yesterday.

[edgy hazel]

I want blue too but we ain't getting it down here

we need a tech-nerd role or something

[wanton orchid]

wait what

what's your stance on HDD replacement staging ?
isn't it risky to set full array of same serial online at once ?
or is it guaranteed to fail randomly

I would think it's best to set one online every weeks or something like that
doing testing while the array is not fully online

So it make somewhat sure you'll get a fail a week statistically

[twin dew]

The problem isn't really when you set the close together manufactured drives on.
The problem is building array with close together drivers in general, as that makes it much more likely that common manufacturing error or like will kill multiple drives early.

In theory that kind of staged replacement MIGHT help space that out, but as the timing is random anyways, might not help.

More often you try to get same model drives manufactured at different times instead.

At least into each array.

To make it much less likely to get common mode fail during rebuild from the first early failure.

[wanton orchid]

I see
though it would need month spaced unit buying for maximum odds of not getting same unit set

always bugged me

[twin dew]

The actual server vendors can buy lots, then just use one drive per lot in each storage server.

[wanton orchid]

replacing HDD as they fails sounds nice and simple
but how you put it online first has all sort of direct impacts on statistical protections

[wanton orchid]

I can see that
I'm wondering how for low volume

[night girder]

Double foldable phone:

Patented by Samsung.

[wanton orchid]

as if adding a fifth well to a car would make the whole car pentatable

I'm really furious against that kind of thing

it's unoriginal and untechnical
so it should be unpatentable

[night girder]

I never was into the foldable design. To each it's own.

Can't wait for the triple foldable. Or quatro.

https://tenor.com/view/paper-folding-process-origami-steps-gif-4885899

Next we have phones like this. 👆

[wanton orchid]

Also will get each their patent

[soft bloom]

patentint makes me want to put a patent on stupiod redundant patenting so that no company can do it in bad will

[twin dew]

Unfortunately that only helps if you have few million per lawsuit at minimum to do anything with the patents.
Preferrably with few tens of millions, over 5+ year timeframe, per lawsuit.

[acoustic pilot]

Anyone have the game running on a new Mac mini?

[low scaffold]

Hello there fellow Pioneer!
You're currently chatting in off-topic channels.

Please note, the entire off-topic category is reserved for not Satisfactory related chattery. To comply with your FICSIT Inc. contract, please make use of the appropriate channels in the Satisfactory category. Thank you!

Command executed by: hergarian

[stray badger]

I dont think it can run on arm

[twin dew]

U8 did run on ARM macs via several different solutions.
Parallels at least broke again with 1.0, cannot handle the UE5.3 graphics output, no idea if fixed yet, with U8 that took over 6 months.

Game Porting Toolkit (Wine port by Apple you have to compile yourself) should work fine for example, with the performance penalty of the Apples own x86 to ARM conversion layer.

[twin dew]

@acoustic pilot

With CodeWeavers Crossover being the actual source of the Apple Game Porting Toolkit, with paid supported version.

[gilded helm]

Did anyone test the 9800X3D with Satis, Factorio, or similar? GN did Stellaris at least.

[twin dew]

AFAIK no.

[gilded helm]

Listening the HUB podcast talking about CPU limited testing and I was hoping it'd come up.

[twin dew]

Even HUBs 7800X3D vs 9800X3D in ton of games video didn't have anything in that category, which was just weird.

[gilded helm]

They've said before neither of them play strategy or building games.

[twin dew]

Ah, Finnish IO-Tech had done:

Using this benchmark: https://factoriobox.1au.us/

2 x 16 Gt G.Skill Trident Z5 @ DDR5-6000 (30-38-38) RAM on same MB for both

[gilded helm]

GN Steve had alluded to 1% lows being much improved over the 7800X3D as well.

[tribal kraken]

www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/15iicia/2x48gb_ddr5_gives_great_performance_on_am5/ someone had good results with that DDR5 kit

[twin dew]

Same with any Hynix die using DDR5 kit.

Way above anything the other two produce for all three die variants of Hynix DDR5.

[soft bloom]

how does one properly visualize value assigned to rectangular objects placed 2D plane, in a branching manner? like, imagine you have A4 paper, you place it, and write number on it. then you take another one, and for example, but it in half, place nicely alligned on top of first one, write number on it. then you take another 2 quarters and place on top of that one, and then you take 1 1/8th and place on top. kinda like that.
it's remotely similar to the way baobab represents folder volume, but with additional thing that each rectangle has coordinates, and there are no "files" - all "folders".
main problem is with overlapping. but even without it - not sure how to be.

[willow pike]

lol, lmao

[gilded helm]

Those bonkers cheap Alder Lake deals are probably the only prices where Intel makes sense for gaming. Maybe. I can't be bothered to look at overall platform cost. And then you're buying into a dead platform.

[twin dew]

Basically saying that CPU doesn't matter, only GPU.
So what is point of Intel either then ?D

[soft bloom]

I wouldn't bother spending more for gaming too, but what all this matter in the review of that cpu? Only author knows

[wanton orchid]

it just try to make forget intel is more expensive here

[twin dew]

Wonder what the guy would say if IO-Tech had added any of the Intels into the 4k test and he had to comment on the results.

Minimum in black, average in green.

[verbal raft]

my favorite part is userbenchart didnt even bother to talk about the performance

i also love how they wrote"they are tested at low resolutions with a 4090(AnD ThAtS uNfAiR😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭)"

[twin dew]

Testing CPU in CPU limited scenario is unfair to bad CPUs!

[verbal raft]

userbencahrk the april fools that never ends

i think someone should make based userbenchmark

[willow pike]

basedmark

basedbench

[soft bloom]

Basenchmark

But i doubt someone would gather enough data given reputation of the idea. Which is cool

[verbal raft]

109 mods?!thats crazy

[stray badger]

Thats some crazy performance

[glossy glacier]

109 mods?! That's crazy few!
Also MC 1.6? That's ooold. Should update with some Create stuff

[twin dew]

Lot of mods didn't update to support newer versions because of the massive rewrites.

As the makers couldn't be bothered to rewrite their mods to work with the refactored game.

[glossy glacier]

True, but many got successors and many new ones too

Later versions also include newer Java versions

[soft bloom]

reversing order of coordinates to make Plotly actually fill area inside the polygons (smaller area) makes 0 sense to me

[languid gulch]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hLKHxg

friend is looking for criticisms on this

i suggested keeping it to a single kit of ram

anything else?

PSU is definitely overkill, but also he's the "once per decade" kind of pc person

[dire igloo]

ungodly overpriced CPU
AIO not needed, air cooler is sufficient, check Amazon for Thermalright pricing and availability
RAM will run at super slow speeds due to 2dpc, also no 9800X3D usecase that needs 192GB RAM
stupidly overpriced SSDs, no point in 2x2TB, overkill
fine GPU
mediocre overpriced case
stupidly overpriced and overkill PSU, no point
Home version of Windows is sufficient
junk keyboard

$3k is almost 4090 territory, also don't shortsightedly splurge on PC only to cheap out on peripherals

[languid gulch]

9800X3D is aiming for the $480 price

[dire igloo]

check microcenter bundles

[languid gulch]

the AIO comes with 3 fans to fill out the case with, which ain't bad for under $60

[dire igloo]

oh, another thing: mainboard overpriced and doesn't offer a meaningful benefit

[dire igloo]

that's aesthetics

AIOs are fine for aesthetics but often pointless for performance

[languid gulch]

yea might recommend switching to the assassin 120SE since the case comes with 3 fans apparently

only a $20 difference but no water is a big plus

[dire igloo]

1. don't get the case
2. get the aesthetic preference cleared up first
3. which assassin? X, Spirit, Burst, Peerless, King? Also, Phantom Spirit exists and ID-Cooling A620 Pro SE

[languid gulch]

.....the 120SE, as i said

dual tower

[dire igloo]

that's Peerless Assassin

There's also Assassin X 120 SE or Assassin King 120 (idk if it has SE)

Burst Assassin should also have an SE version if my memory serves me well

you basically said you wanted an NZXT Kraken 360 - with no info on which of the many 360mm Krakens

[languid gulch]

yea i forgot that thermalright has like 50 different SKUs on that, was just thinking of the original one that's always like $35

[dire igloo]

"Assassin" is the main identifier for their air cooler lineup

just like "Frozen" for AIOs

you were thinking of Peerless Assassin

[languid gulch]

right

[dire igloo]

that's where the actual model is encoded

[languid gulch]

just gotta get it in my head that that's the specific model

[dire igloo]

tho those can still have varying SKUs

[languid gulch]

case recommendations?

[dire igloo]

Lancool 216

[languid gulch]

checking gpu clearance on it

yay we're good

[dire igloo]

Montech, Phanteks/Magniumgear and Fractal sometimes also have good stuff. Higher end Antec also good

[dire igloo]

Case is an aesthetics pick

[languid gulch]

right, i just wanted to make sure that everything would fit

[dire igloo]

so back to what I said earlier, figure out the aesthetic preference first

no point changing the case if it's gonna be discarded cuz they want it to look a certain way

[languid gulch]

how's the evga supernova psu lineup these days

[dire igloo]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1eL0893Ramlwk6E3s3uSvH1_juom7SMG5SCNzP2Uov8w/htmlview
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193.html

[dire igloo]

overpriced

[languid gulch]

the 1000gt is what GN used to show a good unit vs the gigabyte bombs

[dire igloo]

you want the cheapest that's sufficient and good

[languid gulch]

right, but i know EVGA has great customer service & warranty, & with this being a top-end system, that'd be worth investing a bit more in from the psu side

[dire igloo]

if you want to, you can pay extra for support, warranty or stuff like that if you want that peace of mind. not worth it tho

[languid gulch]

like i said, he's one of the "once every 10 years" kind of pc person

[dire igloo]

model over brand. You want a good PSU, so buy a good PSU and not a random PSU with a logo on the box

[glossy glacier]

get a non price gauged CPU and drop the second set of RAM, otherwise decent HW
Win Home is in most use cases enough, but if you need the functions of pro....
no comment on the Keyboard 😅

[languid gulch]

oh yea not bothering to comment on the peripherals, that's way too personal for me to get into 🤣

[dire igloo]

future-proofing in the sense of "spend more now, save money on future upgrades" is a foolish myth.
a 2k PC now with a 1k upgrade later will give you more performance than a 3k PC now
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197095025157472256/1134967467064688660/futureproofing_remake.png

[languid gulch]

right, but the psu might survive the other hardware upgrades

[dire igloo]

there isn't much personal preference tbh, ewaste is ewaste.
between the good ones tho there is a factor of subjectivity

[glossy glacier]

honestly? considering the mess with 12VHPWR/12Vx6/whatever, i am not so sure about this atm

[dire igloo]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/9XNYcf

[dire igloo]

misinformation. 12VHPWR's biggest issue is being prone to user error

[languid gulch]

plus god knows that AMD might adopt it

[glossy glacier]

more about the changing spec, not the risk of fire

[dire igloo]

1. it's easier to sell an entire system than scraps
2. it's a nightmare to disassemble an entire system just cuz you wanna reuse the PSU
3. still no valid reason to burn money

[dire igloo]

they have to, it's part of PCIe Gen5 spec

[languid gulch]

ah fuck, of course they did that

[dire igloo]

good thing that the PSU I posted above already comes with native 12VHPWR

and the CWT GPX platform it uses is a highend one

also, 7900xtx at a $3k budget is rather pointless - especially considering the 4080's versatility

[languid gulch]

he said $2k-$2500, with $3k being a "only if it really makes sense"

[dire igloo]

it doesn't

absolutely doesn't

maybe with peripherals included

[languid gulch]

yup, that's my thinking

[dire igloo]

To assist us in helping you with your list, please answer this copypasta.
The more info you provide the better

• when you'll be buying (lists become outdated quickly)
• Country and total budget, peripherals included.
• If you need peripherals, which ones? (monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset)
• Any specific games you will be running and at what resolution? (1080p, 1440p, 4k)
• Are you using the PC for work? What pieces of software? (Blender, Adobe Premiere, AutoCAD)
• Functional requirements (encoder for streaming, Bluetooth, USB-C)
• Do you have access to Ethernet? (cabled internet)
• Aesthetic preferences (color scheme, RGB, AIO)
• Any pre-owned parts and/or parts you can return for a refund?

here's the copypasta I use in the PCPP server

[languid gulch]

nice 🙂 yea if i was in his head i'd have listed that kind of stuff

best i can do is "soon" for timeframe, & mostly gaming with some productivity stuff on the side

[dire igloo]

have him list that

"some productivity stuff on the side" can already eliminate 9800X3D and/or 7900XTX

playing telephone is helping nobody

[languid gulch]

i don't think he cares much about aesthetics, utility is definitely primary

oh nothing like blender, more like excel spreadsheets kind of productivity

[dire igloo]

I've used Excel to limit-test my work laptop before

[languid gulch]

🤣 it sounds like a "gaming on main monitor, with excel stuff on the side" kind of situation

[night girder]

there are games made in excel

[languid gulch]

so yes on productivity, but not in a hardware-heavy situation

what would make the 4080 better than the 7900XTX?

beside nvenc

[soft bloom]

Should we even care about nvenc in this day and age?

[languid gulch]

that's what i was wondering

[soft bloom]

These days cpu do good job of handling encoding. It's not like 8 years ago when people needed nvenc to do decent streaming/recording

[dire igloo]

RT, CUDA

[dire igloo]

exact opposite way, lol

CPU encoding is super performance heavy, GPU hardware encoding has finally caught up to software enc in quality

if you wanted good stream quality you had to use CPU enc back then cuz GPU hardware enc (even nvenc) sucked

it was usable if you couldn't spare CPU performance but anyone looking into serious streaming needed CPU enc - and a separate streaming PC to not kill performance

[gilded helm]

Holy crap, the 4090 is $1920 according to PCP. Even this close to what's probably the 5090 launch.

[dire igloo]

look at how many of them are Amazon third party sellers

[dire igloo]

energy efficiency and DLSS
tho these are offset by the increased cost and slightly lower raw raster performance (imo)

[gilded helm]

Cheapest is direct from Newegg right now, $1900+$20~ shipping

It comes with Outlaws, what a bargain!

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-gddr6x/p/N82E16814932550

Amusing, Newegg trying to bundle their inhouse brand Rosewill PSUs with some 4090s

Newegg combos aren't always bad, I can't rule out that one listed here is worthwhile
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 601408874&Order=1

[dire igloo]

they also have the combo builder iirc, also has some strong deals sometimes

[gilded helm]

If the budget is up to 3k, a 4090 is probably in order. Even at $2k just for the card.

[soft bloom]

Hmmm
I don't remember cpu encoding being better than gpu

[dire igloo]

depends on the rest of the setup. I'd rather pair 4080/4080S/7900XTX with good peripherals than a 4090 with junk - especially considering they said 2-2.5k preferential

[gilded helm]

IMO go all the way down to 7900 XT perhaps and get a really good CPU. A single GPU upgrade is probably a reasonable consideration in this 10 year PC idea. Even people who stubbornly stuck with Nehalem, Sandy Bridge, and Haswell for ages did a GPU upgrade before giving up the system most likely.

[dire igloo]

there's nowhere to go with that CPU

besides, 7800X3D and Microcenter bundles are still super important considerations

[gilded helm]

I didn't catch whether MC is available?

[languid gulch]

looks like the current main issue is trying to find a 9800X3D for msrp 🤣

[gilded helm]

Given that Intel just shat the bed, I wouldn't count on finding one for MSRP, the best you can hope for is a good bundle.

Or a 7800 X3D bundle while supplies last

[languid gulch]

yea, that's what we're looking at

i was thinking of recommending just grabbing everything, plus an 8500G, just to get onto the platform, then wait until it becomes available

[gilded helm]

The 7800X3D is backordered on Newegg, and has been for a little while IIRC. It wouldn't surprise me if there's some amount of withholding going to to make 9800X3D launch sales look good.

[wanton orchid]

if the conv still is going on :
I always say select a good quality longrun seeking design and feature wise case
and put a good PSU with long warranty which will likely support your futur refresh
but dont do that with cpu or ram or ssd or alike, that would be waste ofcourse
futur proofing does applies to PSU and Cases
but people often mistakenly take low quality cases and psus, they are locking themselves in the myth that futurproofing cases and PSU is a myth, just because they actual buy parts with very low garantees and/or review background

"but PSU are good to be replaced after 3 years already" is utter bullshit wasting

keeping both psu and case, you dont have to redo all the cable management as much at all

[stray badger]

I think my PSU has an 11 year warranty or smth crazy like that

Seasonic 850w atx 5.0 Gold will be sticking around for awhile

[wanton orchid]

and better quality psus also means lesser electrical strain on your components

[languid gulch]

parts got bought a bit ago, he grabbed a 7800X3D, and will keep doing the "who's fastest" dance for a 9800X3D in the meantime

[twin dew]

Would have expected 7800X3D production to have stopped some time ago already and the stock just running out.

[languid gulch]

i'm wondering if they're hanging onto some of the 9800X3D CCDs to stick in the rumored 9950X3D

[glossy glacier]

The better chiplets go into the 9950X3D

[languid gulch]

which might keep stock a bit low if they're pushing for it

[willow pike]

9950X3D needs better chiplets that run with higher clocks at lower voltages, it isn't competing with the 9800X3D

[twin dew]

But if enough of the dies can run at those higher clocks, until the 9950X3D production is sated, there might be less for the 9800X3D production.

[willow pike]

it's possible, but they're also shitting them out by the millions for epycs which use 12 of them

or is it 16 now?

[twin dew]

Just 8 for the normal ones, the 12 CCD ones are Zen4c.

AFAIK same with Zen5

[willow pike]

16

[twin dew]

But also seems that Turin isn't getting X3D Epycs at all?

[willow pike]

that would be extremely surprising if they only made X3D for client

ryzen gets the scraps of whatever server needs

[twin dew]

https://youtu.be/4pGDEYApniU?t=1324

Told in AMDs Advancing AI event.

Probably not trusting either the new packaging tech for RMA rate, or for having enough production capacity.

But for some reason there seems to be plan for AMD to skip V-cache Epycs for this generation.

[willow pike]

weird

[twin dew]

My main expectation is that they are using the desktop 9000X3Ds as large scale endurance test for the flipped packaging to see if it can be deployed to enterprise.
While they did that in much smaller scale testing internally for the Zen3 ones before launching the tech.

And also need to remember that the V-Cache Epycs are niche product.
Only give benefits on some specific loads for the server.

[dire igloo]

People often think that "don't cheap out on PSU" means "you should spend lots of money on it" when in reality all it means is "don't buy e-waste"

The $95 BFG 850W PSU I sent will be overkill for the usecase and great quality while saving $60+ compared to the PSU from the original list

[dire igloo]

Another common misconception is the importance of efficiency: it's not an indicator of quality and paying extra for better efficiency means the power savings have to recoup that cost (which isn't happening over the PSU's lifespan)

[twin dew]

Yeah, it was that only for some years LONG long time ago, when you couldn't do Gold rated PSU except with best new designs and components.

That time ended in early 2010s.

Now that I checked.

[wanton orchid]

that is true

for the recouping it really depends on the load

[dire igloo]

It really doesn't

[twin dew]

Higher total power saved, and in some places power is pretty expensive.
So getting 100e savings over 10 years is possible for highly-loaded systems.

But not really for normal PC usage, even gaming usage.

Getting the needed 100e saving

[dire igloo]

Even if we assume astronomical pricing of $1 per kWh and super exaggerated savings of 30W (900W load running at 99% efficiency rather than 96%), you'll only recoup one dollar per 33h of full load use

[wanton orchid]

on a 9800x3d + 7800xt setup I agree
on a skylike-x board with lot of connectivity
and 2x gtx 1080 ti
running most days all day
it's not same story
we are talking 150W idling there

[twin dew]

8760 hours per year.
So doesn't need to get that high for actual number crunching system over 10 years for example.
But not there for gaming system.

[dire igloo]

Or any average Joe's desktop system

[wanton orchid]

for any pc running 3h day max
it completely does not matter I agree

what I said as example when only idling already justify 50dollar jump in price for 7years

now think about when not idling

[twin dew]

And when I just looked, current long term fixed price electricity "plans" in Finland cost about 40c/kWh for the electricity itself, then separate transfer fee that, around 5c/kWh in the cities I checked.
And both will have few euros per month base fees.

Current "Stock market" electricity was 13.51c/kWh, but as there has been lot of volatility in that after Russia invaded Ukraine, the long term stable prices are high.

Ok, need to recheck the long term plans, was looking at added margin in stock market plans.

8-10c/kWh for cheapest long term plans

That spot price will hit little under 28c/kWh tomorrow for usage between 18:00 and 19:00.

On 2024-01-05 it hit 235.1c/kWh (2.351e/kWh)

Got mixed as in the worst times the long term plans were really being sold at 40c/kWh level.

And the situation in Finland was never near as dire as in Central Europe.
As we just didn't have export capacity to export more even if Germany etc. would have been willing to pay more.

[visual tree]

Lol, we made up a lot of fees here. Besides paying for electricity you consume, you also pay transfer free, distribution fee, supply fee, fee for electricity meter measuring and fee for promoting use of renewable energy

And regarding fee for electricity meter, everyone pays for it even if you have a smart meter that sends data to the utility company

[twin dew]

Yeah, here you just pay for the company actually handling the wiring to your house (transfer fees, regulated as regional monopolies) and then free market for the actual electricity.

[visual tree]

I'm still trying to understand what's the difference between transfer, distribution and supply

They all sound the same

[twin dew]

There really isn't, but you got fucked up system with grift.
The Finnish actual utilities that have to work with the heavy regulation are pretty pissed for the ones that have been bought out by foreign investment firms that they aren't allowed to grift too much.

Including that one just took Finnish Government to international court for "lost future profits" because of regulation changes.

Because the rules on how the max profit margin they can get is calculated, was changed to close loopholes.

[visual tree]

Also, if you install solar panels on your roof, you can't use it until the utility company installs a two-way smart meter and gives you a permit

And they will delay giving you a permit because it's not in their interest if you produce your own energy as soon as possible

Some people had to wait for a whole year...

[twin dew]

Something like that is needed for lineman safety, but of course that dragging their feet is pure grift.

The electric utility needs way to shut the backfeed to the grid when work is being done etc.

[visual tree]

Yeah, I completely understand you need to install a new two-way power meter but delaying with a permit which is nothing else than a formality is ridiculous

They will probably install a new power meter in 30 days but delay with permits as much as possible

[rapid ether]

that was changed relatively recently in Germany... until they change the meter they have to live with the old meter running backwards now, and suddenly it doesn't take that long anymore. don't have first hand experience, though, but happened to an acquaintance

[visual tree]

Here, someone really "smart" decided it would be a good idea to let a utility company which is almost a monopoly in the whole country give out permits for using solar panels

Of course they are going to delay because it's in their best interest

Also, the utility company is mostly owned by the government so I guess there were political interests involved

[rapid ether]

they have enough ways to delay it here too... or just make the sensible things impossible. We live in a 3-flats house, newly built, huge solar panels on the roof, almost no consumption for heating and warm water... but it's such a regulatory overhead to use that solar electricity for the tenants that the landlord just doesn't want to deal with it. So when we finally got that A/C last year, it was connected to the super-expensive power line, costing 39ct/kWh while the solar panels feed back for almost nothing.

[visual tree]

Few years ago, I got this smart meter but not sure if it's a two-way version: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457105940844380160/1051909108497924106/20221212_173112.jpg?ex=67338c32&is=67323ab2&hm=09c40915171ba8541331002eeb3bbefb15904ad86cb35ef3d53c05b1b97f9cf4&

[visual tree]

Guess I shouldn't complain lol. We pay around €0,095499 per kWh for using electricity from 07 till 21 and €0,046859 per kWh for using electricity from 21 till 07

And that's without those stupid made-up extra fees

[rapid ether]

I was really angry when they raised the prices. In Germany, the most expenisve power source which is online dictates the price. It's allowed to run at cost while the others make a profit. That is mandatory and somehow supposed to "incentivice cost efficiency", but it's easy to see how that system is being gamed. -- Our policy makers very often build in huge and obvious loop holes... I call that corruption, but who am I to tell..
So when the energy crisis started prices went up by a lot because the gas price went up, even for suppliers that were running e.g. 100% on water power. So all these years of paying a little extra for green power was worth nothing there, we were just f***ed as everybody else. A few months later the prices were capped at 40ct or so and never recovered since, because why should they... big corp bosses need their billions

[twin dew]

And still the nuclear plants still running didn't get extensions, or any of the just closed plants didn't get reopened.

Which was just absolutely weird, that the last German nuclear plants were closed on schedule during winter, while there was lot of demand for electricity, not even extension to spring.

[visual tree]

Yeah, I'm still scratching my head trying to understand why Germany closed nuclear power plants during energy crisis

[dire igloo]

to justify keeping coal online

[rapid ether]

and to justify giving billions of tax money to big oil

[twin dew]

Because the decisions to close them had been made after Fukushima, and the date set was somehow absolute.

And even the whole closing was just idiotic knee-jerk.

[rapid ether]

we already paid a billion in reparations to vattenfall because of that...

[visual tree]

Guess it's one of those classic examples of "private interest over public interest"

[twin dew]

Policies of single party dead set against nuclear power.

[jagged snow]

I'm at $0.095 per kWh

[twin dew]

Lot of EU "Green" parties see nuclear power as abhorrent for some reason.

Officially Germany was supposed to switch to renewables from Nuclear, but instead you got Coal and Gas.

[visual tree]

That's cheap. I was expecting much higher prices in USA

[jagged snow]

Hydro

[twin dew]

Lot of area variance, as the long distance lines are crap.

[visual tree]

But then again, USA probably has a huge surplus of energy and that's why prices are cheap

[jagged snow]

So indirectly subsidized

[dire igloo]

plenty solar too, no?

[jagged snow]

Depends where you're at, not here

But this entire region of NA is pretty much entirely hydro/nuclear/wind

[jagged snow]

For hydro specifically, the major dams are all federally built and prices are regulated

[stray badger]

Depends where you are

Solar is very common in Cali, so energy can get pretty cheap

[twin dew]

USA has three major almost completely separated grids, but the capacity for long range transfers even inside those three is somewhat low.

And the capacity between them is pretty minimal.

Where as EU grid is mostly integrated, just capacity deficit between Finland, Northern Sweden and Northern Norway to rest of the block.

With the weird thing that northern swedish and northern norways energy surplus currently has to go through Finland, as the Finnish grid in whole is lot more robust than the interconnects between the northern and southern norway and sweden.
Just that the underwater lines from southern Finland back to southern Sweden have somewhat limited capacity, so during the great central european power famine, our prices didn't go usually that high as in the major network.

So power going from north Norway, to north Sweden, to Finland, to south Sweden, to south Norway...

[jagged snow]

Which has its tradeoffs
A larger grid is more stable, but more catastrophic in case of failure

But pretty much more interconnection is never bad

[twin dew]

Mainly the problem even inside those interconnects is that limited capacity, which has caused major power outtages before at least for the east one.
As the power companies don't want to use money to upgrade.

And better to not even talk about Texas.

Causing small localized outtages to spiral out of control and bring large parts of the interconnect down.

[wanton orchid]

omg 34kW fuse

[rapid ether]

a.k.a. "nail" 😄

[stray badger]

Texas found out the hard way why nobody else wanted to hook up to them

[twin dew]

No, they aren't hooked as that makes that federal regulations don't apply to their own power network.

So they can cheap out even more than rest of the country.

[stray badger]

Exactly, they wouldnt follow federal regs, so they couldnt hook up, and ate shit when those regs turned out to be reasonable

Cali has an old grid that has trouble keeping up with modern gen/use cycles. It has too much power during the day, not enough at night, cant handle high winds (power lines) and gets shut off a lot due to fire risk

[twin dew]

They have been intentionally eating shit for 15+ years.
Three or four "once in 100 years" fuckups in last less than 15 years.
First 10 years between first and second, and then two or three in last few years.

[night girder]

Huh?

[stray badger]

Solar peaks in mid day, aircon is needed even at night but solar is not working at night. The demand/supply peaks do not match up

[night girder]

Normally it's the other way arround. More ⚡ during the day, less ⚡ during the night.

Oh wait, I read that the other way around. My bad.

[twin dew]

Too much solar power from homes having their own panels during the day light peak.
And then not enough once that tapers off in the evening.

[stray badger]

I think its 4pm-9pm is the demand surge as ppl come home from work and turn on air conditioning, but by then solar has fallen

[night girder]

We have the opposite, we have not enough during day. Too much during night.

Hence the prices are more expensive during the day.

[stray badger]

We need more energy storage

[night girder]

And more wind/hydro energy 😉

[stray badger]

The biggest problem tho is fires, power lines run under trees, trees fall due to high winds, lines start fires

Edison is finally fixing it... slowly

[twin dew]

Prices in Helsinki for getting new power connection, based on that connection size:
Last is "Higher power, per Amp"

[stray badger]

To stop the fires tho, they turn off the power during some times

[stray badger]

Is power price a fixed rate? I think ours is variable based on time of day

[twin dew]

That 3x63A is very typical single building home connection size.

[night girder]

I don't know how many fires we have due* to power poles falling over. We don't have many storms.

[twin dew]

That is the price for the power company to install connection to new built house.

[night girder]

I think we try to do a lot underground if possible.

[twin dew]

But had those common main fuse sizes in it.

[stray badger]

LA area is all valleys and hills. Winds get pretty fast during this time of year and since it hasnt really rained since may, everything is burning

[night girder]

but I think high capacity and long distance, it's better above ground?

[stray badger]

Ah i see

[night girder]

There is a reason they sometimes have to do it above ground.

And it has to do with the power itself if I am not mistaken.

[stray badger]

Idk im not an engineer

The main problem is lack of maintenance, they allowed trees to grow around power lines to an unsafe degree

[night girder]

There was a case here in Belgium, that they want to make a new connection, above the ground. But they have to go through lots of farm land etc. And the farmers were protesting against it. And the power company said that it has to be above ground for some reason.

[twin dew]

Underground is more costly on short term, but cheaper for maintenance.
But when only the short term matters...

[stray badger]

Digging a long ass trench probly

I feel like farmers would hate that more

[twin dew]

The underground power cables inside water table would be a problem, would need DC cable.

[jagged snow]

And when the power lines are belowground you have more parisitic power loss for transmission lines

[twin dew]

AC has horrible losses if surrounded by water.

[jagged snow]

And there is always water in soil

[stray badger]

Thats why we dont have long distance underground here, high water table combined with earthquakes

[jagged snow]

So underground transmission lines pretty much neccecitate dc, which is more expensive in the short term

[stray badger]

Especially in watered farmland

[night girder]

85 kilometer is the length of the project, 6GW, project is called: Ventilus. 3550 official complaints to stop project.

[visual tree]

Glad I opted for 3-phase house connection. Most homes have 2-phase connection

[twin dew]

You mean one phase?

[wanton orchid]

2-phase would be nightmare to balance

[twin dew]

Normally in Europe you have either 1 phase and neutral, or three phase and neutral

[visual tree]

Not an electrician but my dad mentioned we have a "3-phase" connection which allowed us to install for example a "3-phase" outlet for cement mixer in a garage

[twin dew]

Meant that "2-phase" as normal.

[visual tree]

Oh, I get it

[twin dew]

Which isn't normal anywhere AFAIK.
Even US is Split phase, not 2-phase.

[visual tree]

My bad

[night girder]

What's the difference again?

[wanton orchid]

2 phase would be 3 wire

2 wire is in and out of a single phase

[jagged snow]

Split phase means you're taking a single phase from mains and splitting it with a center tap in a transformer

[visual tree]

You can plug a cement mixer in your house

[wanton orchid]

3 phase have 3 wire because there is 6 phantom circuits

you have wire to wire 1 way (3 circuits)
wire to wire an other way (3 other circuits)
wire to neutral (which is balanced inside the 3 other wires) (3 other circuits)

1 phase alone is wire to neutral 1 circuit

[visual tree]

Here is an outlet for a cement mixer or some other industrial machine btw

[wanton orchid]

So 2 wires

[visual tree]

You won't find this outlet in a standard home

[night girder]

Wow, never seen that.

What's the benefit of it?

[twin dew]

Yeah, just 3-phase + N + safety ground.
Giving 400V between the actual power outputs.

[twin dew]

Tons of power in 3-phase so it can feed simple AC motors etc. directly.

[night girder]

Gotcha.

[wanton orchid]

isn't the square actually 380V ?

I always seen 380V

Also with bad power factor neutral wire could get overloaded ?

I don't like neutral wire because of that

[twin dew]

That isn't used in most cases.

[visual tree]

We also have a 3-phase standard outlet for other machinery in the garage. I remember when we borrowed a floor sanding machine and it would instantly trip the breaker (after trying to turn it on) if you plugged it in any other outlet in the house which isn't 3-phase

[jagged snow]

Most of the time current should be entirely between phases

[twin dew]

The standard EU high power plugs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309

[night girder]

Those I've used before.

[visual tree]

I have one in the garden

[wanton orchid]

camping

[visual tree]

Use it for connecting a ceiling lamp though

[wanton orchid]

makes me think of that stupid 20kW lamp video

[twin dew]

Well, seems that there is 800A version of that IEC connector...
And that should be 800A per phase.

[wanton orchid]

"sorry guys I tripped"

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT5_-A0m8_U

That one?

[visual tree]

Oh, nevermind. I don't have that

[twin dew]

The normal commonly used ones "only" go up to 125A, and the 63A and 125A ones can have mating confirmation pin as optional thing.

[twin dew]

That is that 2+E variant.
So just single phase.

[visual tree]

This is an adapter and the bottom has schuko outlet

[wanton orchid]

yes 💀

[visual tree]

Lesson learned: when repairing electronics and someone asks if you need power, don't say yes

https://youtu.be/wpTDVQYVsJQ?si=tK-rxkZwJPltwEXU

[safe trench]

me laughing at bro after he spilled coffee in our radiaton expierment:

[soft bloom]

⅞i heard using gravity to store excess is a thing. With water that is pumped into reservoir.

[safe trench]

have anyone ever thought of

putting an hdd platter in one of those laptop disc drive readers?

[soft bloom]

Talking about phases and everything: i remember in school there were usual 220V sockets, limited amount of 330V ones in some places, and some low voltage, i thing 30 or 60V on walls near desk height, presumably for physics lab lessons.
And now i wonder how they made that lower voltage, because there clearly wasn't some outside transformer station to do the change.

[soft bloom]

What for?

[safe trench]

alternate recipe for harddrives

[soft bloom]

That sounds like offtopic for offtopic

[wanton orchid]

embedded transformers probably
with #Amper rating

[soft bloom]

Would it be feasible to make like 6-10 per classroom?

[wanton orchid]

why wouldn't it be feasible ?

[soft bloom]

Hmm, also i think they had switch on them. So maybe true

[wanton orchid]

classroom desk are expensive

[soft bloom]

Lots of points of failure and maintenance

[wanton orchid]

no maintenance apart from replacing it if it fails

[soft bloom]

Pheh, not these ones. Not inside the desk - on walls near them

[wanton orchid]

and it's easy to make reliable converters
these are not the most efficient nor most accurate

[soft bloom]

Which is already too much for most schools

[wanton orchid]

it's not supposed to fail every other day

[soft bloom]

But probably wont remember all the details. Anyway it was nice to have them

[soft bloom]

Yeah i mean that if just 1 per school fails it probably wont get fixed

Here they cheap out on everything.

[wanton orchid]

and then complain they have to fix things inefficiently because it's in a rush

which cost a lot

[soft bloom]

Local school replaced old wooden-frame windows just this summer - probably because parents were scared of the cold winter without central heating

Which is probably a lot of savings on energy since there's a lot of window area. But bill will remain the same i bet

[languid gulch]

depends on the rest of the structure

if it has crap insulation everywhere else, then yea, won't do too much

[soft bloom]

There's no insulation everywhere else.

But i meant that bill will remain the same because i doubt there's even such option with central heating of government structures

Actually it's so old there's a room with various machines from the factory. I never saw it up close, so can't tell. But looks like something used for various metal works

[twin dew]

GN might be adding Factorio to CPU testing suite, they will take a look for the 9950X3D review.

[gilded helm]

A frametime graph when placing blueprints in a built up Satisfactory world could be interesting.

Zero mention of stuff like this or strategy games in the recent HUB video.

[twin dew]

Not that good test, as that is currently bad because of game code performance issues that are under work to fix.

[gilded helm]

Performance issues are just part of PC gaming, that's not a reason to avoid a test in my opinion

[twin dew]

But just static shot in large Satisfactory world would work fine.

When the game is still CPU limited even with best CPUs.

Should be easy to do with 4090 or like with lower settings.

[gilded helm]

The dilemma is that even with the Factorio benchmark there's pretty much no way for me to draw a conclusion about a CPU upgrade. Really I'm just looking to avoid doomsday level slowness in games like this, Valheim, and Timberborn.

Where you start to have missed inputs and multi-second leg every time you place something.

If the 9800X3D just delays the inevitable, then there's an extent to which it's still not of interest because I'll be in a place where I still need to manage building with regard to performance. A CPU that could take that thought away would be the true game changer.

[twin dew]

Already almost non-issue with 7800X3D when I tried to test saves for people who had bad issues.
Even before the latest fixes.

[gilded helm]

Yeah, I'm definitely very curious. Of course I'm stuck in laptop land, so my options are painfully constrained.

[twin dew]

AMD has V-cache desktop replacement laptop CPU.

[tribal kraken]

Most of my perfromance issues in Satisf. are multiplayer related I think, for my wold size.

[twin dew]

7945HX3D

Basically 7950X3D for laptops.

[gilded helm]

Last I knew it was still the single laptop design though. AMD just needs to get more design wins somehow.

[twin dew]

More probably they just don't have volume for it.

With it getting the best binned CCDs.

[gilded helm]

Probably my best hope is 2026. Maybe there will be better adoption of X3D in laptops in 2025, and prices will reach sane levels in 2026.

[twin dew]

Best binned for power-frequency.

[tribal kraken]

Worst is if I load into the server, relatively unpopulated area. And then take train or hypertube to a factory area, it takes a while until FPS stabilizes. Guess it is syncing something. If I do that straight away, the removed foliage at my factories are visible for a while. Should test it in single if its better

[gilded helm]

Yeah, area load is another one that could be massively improved for me.

Also a huge issue in Valheim

[tribal kraken]

Took my laptop to a factory roof yesterday, about 0° C temp, just to find out that battery lasts about 5mins fully charged.. In room temp it lasts 30min atleast.

[soft bloom]

i spilled camomile tea on my keyboard. am i invited to a club of office spillage? what's funny the cup was stationary on table and started rocking - my attempt to stop caused water go nuts over walls

[narrow estuary]

That's been my experience too. 3700x is bare min to get to 35mb save file. Yet to test a larger save file. Keen to see how compares to the 9800x3d.

[wanton orchid]

3700x to 9800x3d is a gigantic gap

[edgy hazel]

Time for brake cleaner 😎

[wanton orchid]

we're talking like x2 performance in gaming

[soft bloom]

anyone can recommend good ergonomic/vertical mouse?

i've been using canyon but they have mousewheel that just fails after some time

for big hand

[twin dew]

Everyone but me is biased!

[wanton orchid]

especially since alternatives are .. more expensive !

🥳

[twin dew]

Well, he has written off Intel top end, and like it shows, only now recommends 13600K and 14600K.

Anything over that level doesn't matter now.

[pure karma]

honestly i aprove of the last bit

everyone overhyped this thing but with reason since its the only decent release

[gentle pivot]

**Hi. I have a problem with adding my ram.. **

Currently I don't have the dual channel because of that.. but if I install the ram anyway it is against to the water-cooling pipe and it push more lightly on the ram strip next to it would it bother ?

The biggest problem is that it would not be straight (the pipes force on it which pushes it slightly ! )

Any help is welcome :peepoLove: !

[twin dew]

2 DIMMs in right slots is dual-channel.
4 DIMMs just more RAM in each channel and lowers max RAM frequency.

But why not just remount the block into another orientation?

[gentle pivot]

i cant.. cuz i could turn it but the cables would touch the GC..

[twin dew]

4 orientations?

[gentle pivot]

nop ( the cables are too big.. they got collision with the motherboard )

I was thinking about getting another motherboard.. but its annoying too change everting

[twin dew]

Why are you even trying to get 4 sticks of RAM?
Instead of just 2 bigger sticks?

[gentle pivot]

4 of 16Go cuz i did not wanted too have 32Go sleeping but now i guess i have to get 64Go sleeping in a box

[twin dew]

Well, 2x32GB RAM kit is probably cheaper than new motherboard.

Or new AIO.

[pure karma]

well does it work even if its bent?

if so its fine

[twin dew]

The vibrations can make the RAM slot solder crack over time.

From the pump in the block.

The tubing being against the GPU would be better than against the RAM.

[pure karma]

yea i was gonna say it looks like it could fit with the tubes downwards worst case remove the m.2 cover

[gentle pivot]

yeah i would buy a kit before and maybe in 1 or 2 year change the motherboard

Have to wait to sell the new Ram and old ram before to buy the new kit at 140€ 🥲

Good that i have frend that need some lol

THX @twin dew for the help, i solved my problem

[pure karma]

what you should have done is check the clearance with the first kit before buying the other 2 sticks

[gentle pivot]

i did but was not thinking about the forces that will have on the Ram..

But now i know

i was just thinking that they would be against each other

But not like that 😅

[pure karma]

yea thats the downside to big aio blocks/pumps is that they get in the way in ways you wouldent expect

i have also been lookign at upgrading to 64GB but a 32x2 kits are still going around 250-300$CAD and thats like a bit much... maybe when they start going bellow 200$ il upgrade

[verbal raft]

why am i using 1.8 gigs of VRAM on my desktop??

[pure karma]

because your gpu is on 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Because lot of 2D programs today use 300-500MB of VRAM even while minimized etc.

Each

My browser is currently using 800MB

Open MS Outlook another 800MB

[verbal raft]

well i gues im going to have to upgrade next gen

to at least 12gb

if next gen is good of course

[twin dew]

Mostly it doesn't matter, as the GPU driver would just move the background programs VRAM usage into RAM when the VRAM gets tight.
Which makes the UE4 & 5:s Epic coded self-limiters for VRAM usage even more insane.
Where 5.3 in Satisfactory seems to limit if the TOTAL system dedicated VRAM usage hits about 90% of dedicated VRAM.
Even when half of that usage might be background programs that would just get thrown out as needed.

[verbal raft]

(this might be a stupid question) is there a way to disable that?

the UE VRAM limiter

[twin dew]

No idea.
At least the old (still in) 81 % of VRAM max limit cannot be disabled without editing the source code.
The 56.7% of VRAM for textures limit was editable in UE4, but the variable isn't editable in current 1.0.
Haven't looked closely if that 90% total is real or was just artifact.
But I could at some points trigger the "out of VRAM self-limit" slowdowns by controlling how much VRAM other programs were using.

[willow pike]

so election apps use as much vram as they want while ue5 leaves it on the table

great

[twin dew]

Electron?

[twin dew]

Yeah... Epic has been paranoid about never going over VRAM in UE4 since start.

[verbal raft]

is there like a stability reason for it?

[twin dew]

Not for a long time.
As GPU drivers will just start using RAM as extension.
Dropping performance but keeping chugging.

And that drop in performance from GPU driver doing it is much less than the stupidity that Epic has coded UE5 on DX12 to do...

That "Shared GPU memory" in Task Manager etc.

[verbal raft]

then it doesnt make any sense for epic to keep it this way

so why dont they change it?

[twin dew]

How would I know?

I can not see any logical reason to do it since RAM as VRAM as automatic function of GPU drivers was added LONG time ago.
AFAIK was a thing before UE4 was released but haven't checked.

[verbal raft]

fair

[wanton orchid]

wasnt it basically fully unlocked only with the uefi variable bar driver support ?

[twin dew]

No, has been in since GPUs had less than 1GB of VRAM.

And drivers.

[wanton orchid]

then graphic driver would load/unload vram I think

[twin dew]

ReBAR might make it work more efficiently and faster.

[wanton orchid]

though uefi resizeable bar as been supported since rtx 2000 series so it's also getting old

[twin dew]

Point was that the RAM as VRAM extension has been in Windows from at least Win7.
Possibly even earlier in just GPU drivers.

[wanton orchid]

that's what I meant, it was working for browsers and playback apps and the like, but not performant for gaming

[twin dew]

Yeah, but even the old version is much better than what UE5 currently does.
Doing the swapping between RAM and VRAM each frame manually...

[wanton orchid]

it is fully gpu drivers managed almost now anyway, and rebar is there

with full memory mapping (iommu)

[twin dew]

UE4 on DX12 will just crash when the internal VRAM usage limits are hit.

Even if there is still free VRAM.

And UE5 will start manually doing stupid shit instead of letting GPU driver do it.

[wanton orchid]

(and texture direct nvme loading is extension of that too)

[twin dew]

So currently UE5 game performance just falls of the cliff once the internal limits are hit.
Instead of the gradual performance regression when GPU driver does it.

[wanton orchid]

the best way to do it, is VRAM management AWARE engine (still letting the gpu driver do its thing but overwatching it)

[twin dew]

When I got that "90% used" issue where the UE dropped off the cliff, the GPU driver had already moved 500MB or so of the games VRAM usage to the RAM.

Without any performance impact.

And lot of the other programs use.

[wanton orchid]

with iommu + dma engine + full memory mapping + pcie gen >3 + >ddr4 + on gpu scheduling
there is so low overhead for anything all the other apps could all be virtually running from ram without any issues

[twin dew]

And point is that when the GPU driver does that management, it can just move the "loaded in case" textures to RAM from VRAM, that aren't actually used at that time because of the view direction etc.

[wanton orchid]

yep

or even part of animation not triggered yet

or overlapped

it will basically simply show as few ms frame time spike

[twin dew]

Yeah, and instead of allowing the GPU driver to handle the VRAM and RAM usage for GPU related stuff, UE4 and UE5 do different stupid shit in trying to not ever use more than VRAM, and still also leave that 19% for the OS etc.

And that percentage split is just extra stupid with last 5 years VRAM amounts.
Instead of fixed in MB "I shall not use this amount"

The percentage hasn't been changed since UE4 was released when I checked the Blame in GitHub.

[wanton orchid]

anykind of percentage like that is going to be stupid

you always need at least "percent or absolute which ever is biggest/lowest"
or better have a scaling %
like first #MB 35% next #MB 20% next #MB or over 5%

[twin dew]

The engine asks Windows: How much VRAM should I use as max.
And Windows seems to (almost?) always respond with "use 90% of VRAM as max".
And then the engine multiplies that returned value with 0.9 for max it will ever use.
And then multiplies the resulting number with 0.7 to get how much to use for textures as max...

Resulting in about 81% as total limit, and that 56.7% as texture space max.

In UE4 that last percentage was configurable, but the same variable doesn't seem to work in 1.0.

Not recognized by the console.

But the limits are still in 1.0 based on game log entries.

But to that RAM as VRAM extension, IIRC it was first implemented in one AGP GPU, and then everyone else had to implement it too as it gave so much more graceful FPS loss once going over the VRAM.

[wanton orchid]

(optimized as "max until variable" + "selected zone % of what is remaining")

[twin dew]

(didn't crash, still gave SOME fps even if the drop might have been pretty high)

Yeah, "AGP Memory" was a thing in 2004 at least already.

AGP Aperture Size BIOS setting setting the limit for that.

[wanton orchid]

that is the fixed reservation thing though

[twin dew]

Yeah, but already using RAM as VRAM extension.

With fixed maximum size.

https://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/43

Point was to find the time when the functionality to automatically use RAM as VRAM extension has been available.
And seems that was about since 2004.

Yes, the old implementations are much more limited, but since even that GART, the Unreal 4/5 engine self-limiting has been idiotic.

And UE4 is newer than GART

And using up to half the RAM over PCIe for VRAM extension has been thing long before ReBAR,

[languid gulch]

gpu with expandable vram 😛

[wanton orchid]

back when pcb where optimized for layout and not for IEM and impedance and phase matching

[glossy glacier]

ReBAR only allows to freely choose how much memory can be accessed per transaction/transmission

[tough owl]

www.ebay.com/itm/276711583463

do I buy it and do a screen and trackpad replacement?

[wanton orchid]

there are also rules on how and when it can be accessed

[winged valley]

Damn I might buy that myself tbh

Its a regular old 1920x1080 panel

And trackpads are dirt cheap

$576.29 after tax to do it, but the chassis is all scratched and busted so idk

If you're getting it for yourself go for it but if you're trying to resell probably won't be worth it

[visual tree]

Glad I can run Stalker 2 on recommended settings, game is being relesed in 7 days 🥳

[night girder]

I hope it's stable at release for ya.

[stray badger]

Im very hype

Summer demo was apparently pretty stable, devs promised good performance

[night girder]

Huh, the recommended are different on steam.

Graphics: Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 Ti / Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 / AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT

[stray badger]

Really? Those look how i remember them being

[stray badger]

I think they list them on steam for resolution iirc

Yeah recc is 1440p 60

[night girder]

I hope it's a good game. I played the first one at release. Was pretty ground breaking 😄

The atmosphere in that game was sooooo good.

[stray badger]

I loved SoC and pripyat

[night girder]

It was buggy though 😂

[stray badger]

Mods lol

[night girder]

I remember me just sitting at the campfire the first 10 minutes. Listening to the guitar.

[stray badger]

Pripyat was suprisingly stable

I learned some of the songs on guitar, very good campfire material

[night girder]

Very nice

[visual tree]

I have a 1080p monitor so I hope 16 GB of RAM and RTX 3060 Ti should be enough

Didn't notice system requirements have been updated though

[night girder]

Yeah, sorry I was wrong asablic.

Those are for 1440p @ 60 FPS.

[stray badger]

Should be, they promised 60fps on xbox and ps5

My 7900 GRE and 7950x3d are gonna make 1440p 120 i hope

60 is goos tho, the zone has never been so beautiful

[night girder]

The development of the game had a few setbacks if I remember correctly. That's why I am a bit skeptical. But I really hope it's a good game 😄

I don't want it to fail!

[stray badger]

Understatement of the year

[night girder]

Yeah, just being careful with my wording.

[visual tree]

I will wait for reviews first though. Got burned and learned my lesson with Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 😅

[night girder]

Same 😦 I even have the collectors edition for cyberpunk.

[stray badger]

I have faith, the game going gold was a good sign, and they took all the delays they needed

[night girder]

The one with the statue.

[night girder]

Yup, but still you never know with companies these days. Sometimes they force out games unfinished.

[stray badger]

I think GSC knows they cant do that. They arent a AAA company

Plus, the ceo is actually a dev

[night girder]

And even if it's not perfect, if it's stable enough and they are quick with patches. I am fine too 🙂

[gilded helm]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-app-download-and-features/

[stray badger]

Nothing is every perfect, if its as stable as pripyat i will be happy

I kind of want the steelbook tho

[visual tree]

Installed it today but didn't spend much time using the software. Perhaps I will look into it tomorrow

[stray badger]

Cause stickers

[night girder]

I mean, have you followed Cities Skylines 2 development?

They are putting out patches for a year now, and still reviews are mixed and reporting bugs. I've seen recent playthrough, and the economy in that game is bugged as hell.

The game was mediocore at release and still is. So for some games it seems they can't really recover.

[stray badger]

True. I dont think that the devs could live with themselves if they did the same with stalker tho

Let me have my copium lol

[night girder]

And they had CS1 which was good in my opinion.

[night girder]

Oh for sure. I can also sum up games that flopped and are now still OG.

No Man's Sky for example.

I don't know what happened to that game, but somehow, those crazy developers made a really good game out of it.

[stray badger]

They got their dev time

Stalker 2 has been cooking since at least 2018

[night girder]

I haven't watched content of Stalker 2 btw. I want to be surprised / blind.

I saw a bit of footage and looked like a stalker game to me. Same mechanics. Not a lot of bullets.

Pretty brutal I've heard from a reviewer 😛

[stray badger]

I have watched the demos, they dont reveal much other than how the game runs in fhe beginning, which is apparently pretty well

[stray badger]

Im happy they didnt change

[night girder]

Apparantly, charging in isn't the best idea.

[stray badger]

Welcome to the zone

[night girder]

Exactly 😂

It's more a survival game than shooter.

[stray badger]

I remember the beginning of SoC, fighting them bandits with only a makarov

[night girder]

I struggled with that.

[stray badger]

Lol

[night girder]

But once I got passed it, and understood the game, it went pretty well

It was a house I think and we needed to rescue someone or kill the leader.

[stray badger]

It would be nice if stalker had a character creator tho (or at least some character options for hair/skin/eye color and gender)

[night girder]

Even if you hit them with the peeshooter, it barely did anything

[stray badger]

Yeah save somebody

[stray badger]

If you hit is the big one here

[night girder]

Yup...

I think I first went to find a better gun, I think there was a fight somewhere and they kill eachother. I stole a rifle or something.

[stray badger]

They are adding mod support and i know some UE, so maybe a custom Skif mod could be a cool project

[night girder]

That's what I liked best about the first stalker game, the multiple ways you could approach things.

[visual tree]

Lmao meduza.io/en/feature/2024/11/12/russian-gamers-interested-in-s-t-a-l-k-e-r-2-heart-of-chornobyl-could-risk-treason-charges-to-buy-an-fps-its-developer-won-t-even-sell-in-russia

[stray badger]

Real freedom

[night girder]

And the game didn't tell you much either. Just figure it out, in my experience.

[stray badger]

Yup

[stray badger]

Reminded me of botw, but more extreme

[night girder]

I think I missed that news?

[stray badger]

I meant in terms of gameplay

Not treason charges lol

[gilded helm]

It's also illegal to promote a child-free lifestyle in Russia, I don't think this stands a chance in their current climate.

[visual tree]

This makes me want to buy the game even more so I can end up on the list of foreign enemies lol

[stray badger]

Demographic crisis. Im sure you can see why

[night girder]

I never was able to play BOTW fully. I once borrowed a nintendo switch to play it, but I had to give it back after a few weeks.

You know how Nintendo is.

[stray badger]

Still is my favorite game lol

Botw emulation is pretty solid on cemu

[night girder]

I haven't though about that

[gilded helm]

Russia's demographic crisis isn't unique, and neither are the incentives they're offering. They are... extra motivated right now though. Including having the head of their church saying they should aspire to hundreds of million more people. It'll be interesting to see if they can succeed.

[night girder]

Just sucks Nintendo doesn't port their games to PC.

We know it's technical possible.

[pure karma]

the dream that will forever stay a dream

[tough owl]

Nope that’s not my plan

I’m just gonna buy it and use it as my desktop replacement

[stray badger]

seems pretty good, shes been through a lot but as long as it works it seems good

[gilded helm]

Sad to see this was necessary

(Stardew Valley)

[languid gulch]

oh yea, threaten the mod maker, that'll make 'em wanna work harder

i'll throw plenty of shit at devs if they're doing a terrible job, but i'll never do that to a modmaker or a customer/player

& i've only ever found that case in 1 game 🤣

& it's always criticism & telling people to vote with their wallet, never threats. that's useless

[mental oriole]

I assume mods are not supported by default?

[gilded helm]

Correct, it's the usual situation where mods do not have official support. But modding itself is very well supported, huge amounts of development time have gone into the mod ecosystem. It's just that mods themselves are not supported, just modding. So it's really sad to see people be so ungrateful.

As I see it, the biggest problem is Steam to be perfectly honest. And the recent update to Satisfactory is actually another good example because it contained unintended issues. But Valve is hell bent on updating you whether you want to or not, so you have to resort to shenanigans to avoid updates.

I'm sure plenty of game developers would love to have a better and clearer branch selection for users, for compatibility, mods, and who knows what else, but Steam just doesn't allow it.

[mental oriole]

Then the hate makes no sense. If it was official support, then I would agree some hate towards the game devs...

[dire igloo]

April fool's prank: for a day, mods are not supported

[safe trench]

that would cause way too much problems

[twin dew]

And it seems today is the monthly Reboot Wednesday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZMQf3RwM8Q

[gilded helm]

Someone in the PC World Discord claiming the M4 Mini runs Civ 6 faster than their 7950X3D.

Running it faster while staying cold, too

[dire igloo]

You can play Civ on Mac?

[twin dew]

Seems to have native MacOS version sold in Mac App Store.

[muted patio]

is there anyone here has used wireguard vpn to connect the iphone and pi to make iphone able to access to pi network before ?

[glossy glacier]

Not a to Pi but a vps, but not much of a difference there.
What you need help with?

[willow pike]

amazing

[muted patio]

Well... I have a wire guard on my iPhone and pivpn on pi (my homeserver project) but I have a common issue is when I'm setup a config on wireguard on iphone but when i turn it on, nothing happen, only 1 line that i got on wireguard client is "Data sent", but it suppose to have both "Data received" and "handshake" too.

[glossy glacier]

You have a public IP you can connect to? Ports are forwareded? Firewall allows ports?

[muted patio]

ya i did the port forward like type in a LAN port (22), a WAN port (51820), ipv4 address :[my pi's local ip], WAN host : ... bla bla bla. Even i turn off the firewall on my router or create a DDNS for IP PUBLIC to use for config wireguard (Endpoint). It still not working

[glossy glacier]

And the wireguard interface in the pi is listening on port 22(as mentioned above) and the wireguard interface is up/enabled?

[muted patio]

yes

is it wrong , bc i using ssh to access local to my Pi

[twin dew]

Multiple processes cannot use the same port to listen.

So you need to use some other port on the Pi, as SSH is already reserving the port 22, so WireGuard cannot be on it too.

[muted patio]

it looks like this :

[twin dew]

That is the port forwarding.
But the problem is on the Pi setup, you cannot have both SSH and WireGuard servers on same port on the Pi.

[muted patio]

so what should i do now

[twin dew]

Change the WireGuard on Pi to use another port, restart the service, and then change that forward to point to the new port.

[muted patio]

i have to add 1 more rules for Pi ?
Like separating 1 for Pi and 1 for WireGuard ? Is it right ?

[glossy glacier]

And the config on the iPhone needs to point towards the WAN port (51820)

[glossy glacier]

Every service you want to accrss needs a separate port. If you need something besides WG then yes

[twin dew]

No, you need to change the WireGuard setup on the Pi.
And then adjust the routers port forward to match the new setup.

[muted patio]

WireGuard app automatically do it for me when i scan the qrcode, so i don't need to do that bruh

[twin dew]

No it doesn't?
Because the Pi doesn't have any idea that the port is different on the WAN IP.

And it probably also tries to use wrong IP too.

Because again, the Pi running the WireGuard server has no idea that the public IP is not its own IP.

[glossy glacier]

That too probably

[muted patio]

so the "Endpoint : [public IP of router]:51820" is wrong

[twin dew]

No, that is right.
But wasn't sure what is going on.
What is generating that QR code then?
And what is acting as the WireGuard server?
The router or the Pi?

[glossy glacier]

WG only has peers. To make it a server you need firewall/iptables rules

[twin dew]

Well, the other peer then.
With the iPhone being the other.

[muted patio]

i only use iptables

[verbal raft]

i think this is funny https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S0reLDcafl8

[glossy glacier]

IPhone - WAN-IP : WAN-port -> Router - LAN-IP : LAN-Port -> PiVPN

[muted patio]

Ya lemme try that

[muted patio]

is this using for port forward on router. Right ?

[glossy glacier]

Its the data flow. IPhone contact the router at the WAN-IP/Port, router forwards it to the IP/Port of the PiVPN

(Also you only need UDP for WG)

[muted patio]

ya i just figure out the reason why is that... i forgot to restart the router 😅

But thanks guys @glossy glacier @twin dew, thank you so much

-10x time for nothing 📉 , but +1 knowledge 📈
(My bad)

[ivory rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx4VlScd9xY

Bit weird of this guy limits the 7950x3d to 8 cores, or is that 8 cores with hyperthreading enabled, so "16"

[twin dew]

Dropping to single CCD.

[glossy glacier]

no, thats expected core parking. Windows is told this software is a game and temporary disables the non-x3d chiplet

(or thats how it should be if he didn't do it manually)

[ivory rampart]

ok yeah so its same 8 cores on the new as the old chip

im getting realy bad stutters lately on a 5800x3d.
but i feel like the latest patch made it 10x worse for me

[twin dew]

If Satisfactory related, ask in the right place (#1038092680493801533)
Specify your GPU too.

[pure karma]

not to start a SF argument but yea because multicore spreading is a lot better now so your cpu is working harder aswell as the stuters are for everyone if its caused by building and the customizer

[twin dew]

Should be CPU sourced, probably Nvidia GPU driver issue or like, but need to see.

[gilded helm]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the installation of the Nvidia app causes some sort of botched transition

[languid gulch]

anyone have any good suggestions for 2x tower cooler fans

i did notice on my previous ones that the rear fan was WAY dirtier than the front one, which was probably what made it die early

[jagged snow]

Anyone here have experience in AVR assembly by any chance?

[jagged snow]

Wow, that question sure killed the chat

[tough owl]

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-cpu-am5-socket-burns-out-both-physically-damaged/

[jagged snow]

Either way it's very likely not amd fault

Seems like a reasonable explanation, chip was just forced in

[tough owl]

How do you mess that up

[jagged snow]

It happens all the time

[wanton orchid]

people that think because they seemingly follow instructions they can afford to not look at what they are actually doing

happens all the time

it's like it says pour the water in the bowl and you mistakenly covered it earlier

1. you notice because you looking what you doing and you uncover then pour
   or
2. you do like this guy and pour anyway because that's the instructions

[soft bloom]

am i bad programmer or is it just really lots of data?
100% is 32GB

i don't want to buy more ram...

[mental oriole]

Depends what youre doing.

[soft bloom]

well, just putting decades worth of data together

but still - it reads about 4GB of files. and that jump is significantly higher

[mental oriole]

It would come down to what containers are used.

[dire igloo]

We got Thermalright LCD air coolers before GTA 6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DFXNXX3S

[dire igloo]

A system prone to user error is still a faulty system - case in point: 12VHPWR melting/burning

[soft bloom]

well, it's pandas. but there's some data that would need proper object-relation which rn is just dumped into list/dict strings

so it kinda tags along untill being used

I ended up just raising magnitude min, getting list of event IDs and going through them. still lots of data

but surprisingly it looks like its enough to show the trend

will be a good evidence for everyone with "we just got more sensors - so we think there are more earthquakes" attitude

[wanton orchid]

you can't guard against people not checking for errors

[twin dew]

And even if the socket keys had been metal, then the CPU substrate would have been crushed instead.

[dire igloo]

You can or at least you can make it more apparent when there's smth wrong - like 12vhpwr plugs coming with colored pins

[wanton orchid]

the colored pin is still for people checking for problems

[mental oriole]

Assuming allocators works with newsize = size * (1.5 or 2.0)
Try reserving item sizes beforehand if possible, should be faster/ use less memory

[wanton orchid]

anyone not looking for problems will ignore the color

[mental oriole]

Although not sure how python/ pandas handles it.

[wanton orchid]

you need to make it obvious enough for people who actively check
more than that and you're wasting everyone's energy

[wanton orchid]

it's implementation dependent
and strings are immutable in python

[mental oriole]

They are not.

[twin dew]

Personally I drop the CPU into the socket, and then try to jiggle it up and down to confirm it is in the right position, before closing the holder.

[mental oriole]

S = "a"
S += "b"
S
'ab'

[wanton orchid]

do it

[twin dew]

Immutable string means that new one is created, and the old destroyed.
And that old one isn't just edited.

[mental oriole]

Just did...

[twin dew]

String vs. StringBuffer in Java for example.

First is immutable, second is not.
Depending on what you are doing changes which is better to use for performance etc.

[wanton orchid]

just did too ok, weird

[twin dew]

When you "edit" immutable string, new String is created with the new contents, and the old one deleted.

[wanton orchid]

oh sorry

[mental oriole]

Fair

Got me this time. 🙂

I have been proven wrong.

[wanton orchid]

no the right code is :

s = 'a'
x = s
s += 'b'
print(x)```

[mental oriole]

S = abc, s [2] = d is a better test.

[twin dew]

So you can do the same actions on immutable strings as with mutable strings, but it needs to do more work.
As it isn't edit, but new memory allocation and then deallocation of the old memory.

Where as with mutable string you just edit the contents of the same memory, unless the new string doesn't fit into the old allocation.

[mental oriole]

Although when I mentioned reserving allocations, I mainly meant for list/ dictionaries. But everything is untyped so not sure id it's actually feasable.

[twin dew]

But that extra work is completely invisible to the programmer, except the performance impact.

[wanton orchid]

@mental oriole ok sorry was not awake enough
that's usually the kind of stuff I get angry and specifically point out where it does not work in your code
sorry for falling for it for few seconds

[mental oriole]

No worries, I was actually wrong in this case 🙂

[wanton orchid]

I mean I'm not supposed to fall for that kind of stuff
there are a loooott more misleading stuff online and more complex ones that people make for themselves like in C++ stuff for instance

and I'm trained against all that

maybe I fell back into my C instincts for a moment
but does not work with script bindings

[soft bloom]

and that will be just assigning new value to old variable

[soft bloom]

which why formatting string is amuch more optimized process than concatenating them

I might just end up not reading columns i don't need rn

[night girder]

I have this wonky USB cable, so I was tweaking it with a plier (while it was plugged into my case) and suddenly my screen turned black. Oopsie. I think the cable is shortcutting or something.

USB cable is for my controller btw. So doesn't really have anything to do with my screen, except maybe shortcutting my PC

[mental oriole]

Protip, dont fuck around with cables while they're connected

[sand ferry]

Or any wiring while its powered for that matter.