off-topic-tech

[night girder]

It even has two PWM connections for RGB fans 😛

I was also impressed how easy it was to open the case by removing the panels.

[dire igloo]

Those are two separate things

[night girder]

I mean: 2 x Arctic P12 Slim PWM PST

I am confused. 😦

That's from their website, but the actual fans don't have RGB.

[stray badger]

They have a rgb version, that may be website problem mixing them up

[minor scarab]

hey chat what would yall recommend for a calendar software?

open source ofc

[winged valley]

What's this symbol?

[languid gulch]

i had to gif the President of Botswana's reaction to getting handed the biggest diamond in a century 🤣 2492 carats, just shy of 500g

[night girder]

priceless

[languid gulch]

i just love that his face is exactly what everyone else's would be

[plunks 1lb diamond in hands]

O.o

[twin dew]

Inductor.
L is also the standard shorthand for inductor.
Inductor number 4400.
47 nH (nano henries, inductor value), 1.3 ohm (resistance).

With that inductance being the wanted thing, and that resistance being byproduct.
But both have to match usually to the design.

With the L4400 just being the identifier on that specific PCB/design, not universal.

[winged valley]

I know that part I just wanted to know the symbol and measurements thanks

[twin dew]

Couldn't know what you knew.
When there are easy references for both that code letter and the schematic symbols around to find the info.
Letter(s) to type: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_designator
Symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_symbol

Lot other better ones around too, but used wikipedia for both in this case.

I mean as links in this case.

[visual tree]

https://youtu.be/_IUHMuBH788?feature=shared

The funniest thing is he filled a lawsuit in northern Texas so he could get a judge who might make a decision in his favour

But the judge recused in the end 🤣

Also kinda scary how you can in some cases pick your own judge in USA who might go in your favour

[night girder]

You mean, you can pick the state to which you file your case?

[visual tree]

Yeah. If I understood correctly, if there is only a single judge in a specific state and you know he might go in your favour, you file the lawsuit in his state

I don't know much about USA legal system but sounds like Elon did a trick like that

[night girder]

I am not expert, but I believe there has to be some connection to the state. Something like; Musk has a company in Texas or something like that.

[visual tree]

Not sure if it's based on having company HQ there or also offices

Because you could find a loophole and open an office there just to file a lawsuit

And then close the office when no longer needed

[night girder]

No, that' just an example.

There has to be a connection is what I know.

So there is jurisdiction, not every court in every state has jurisdiction to rule over your case. (traffic court can't hear bankruptcy cases)

[visual tree]

Probably. Legal system here is a nightmare and I don't have enough motivation to learn about USA legal system too 😅

[night girder]

So far it seems pretty straight forward.

I don't think there needs to be connection unless it's about property etc.

[winged valley]

Throwing this out here just in case

I'm working on a 2017 A1466 MacBook Air that has no response from the power button
On charger, I get 8.something volts on PPBUS_G3H, and every time I try to measure current draw I'm doing something wrong bc it doesn't work
The charger will light up green for a second, then stay orange when plugged in
I ran through some testing, and got nothing. However I then noticed that C7564 (a capacitor near the TPS51980 memory driver) had corrosion and slight bulging underneath the solder mask near terminal 2 (which just connects it to a 0 ohm resistor R7564 right next to it)
After trying to remove the cap, I noticed that it either came clean off, or it split in two, hard to tell. What I do know is that the pad terminal 2 connects to is gone
So, something was getting hot there. I think it was the cap. I lost it so I couldn't test it. I did order a new one so we'll see. The resistor next to it appears to have gotten a little burned, but it does still have continuity (again, 0 ohm resistor)
Now, assuming the cap doesn't fix it, what should be the next thing I look at/replace? I'm assuming the TPS51980? It doesn't get hot (although I don't know that for sure bc that cap is currently missing and it feeds right back into the IC on a different pin through that resistor)

[wanton orchid]

how is regularly reading part of hdd called again

it's not srubbing ?

anyway

[stray badger]

Northern texas has wacky rules specifically that allow you to essentially choose your judge

[night girder]

oh, that's crazy

[soft bloom]

turns out if you convert audio files inVLC while looping is enabled it will try to convert them again resulting in overwrite attempt popup that is dam confusing since, like... huh?!

[surreal sun]

Anyone, have any good monitor recommendations? Right now I have a 75HZ and sometimes feel it's unable to preform how I want and push the frame's out. I get over 100Frame's on SF but my monitor can only push out 75HZ so yeah. I want a better one.

[languid gulch]

depends on what your budget is & what kind of specs besides higher than 75fps you want on it

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/

usually a decent place to start narrowing things down

[safe trench]

also use sum like this

freak you checkit no one wants you here

[tribal kraken]

Autodesk Recap and point clouds. Learning new stuff

[wary olive]

Just had my PSU and an SSD die in the same night

I might be the next one that dies

[twin dew]

That is wrong way.
if = input device, of = output device, you are reading from the partition and writing to /dev/null.
When you wat to read from /dev/zero for all zeroes, or /dev/urandom for pseudorandom data (not /dev/random which is slow realish random data)

Ah, sorry, you just want to make the drive to read for drive refresh, so right.

And yes, that is scrubbing, just that some places incorrectly use the same term for erasing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_scrubbing

[dire igloo]

What country are you in?
What is your budget?
What CPU and GPU are in your PC?

[pure karma]

well just keep in mind that high framerate wont last for very long since Satisfactory is only optimized for up to 60FPS atleast for now

[twin dew]

What?
The later game FPS is CPU & RAM latency/bandwidth limited?
I can get 100 FPS in Taros 30MB save with low details on GPU as my GPU is shitty.

There is nothing limiting the FPS except your hardware in the game.
Getting 250+ FPS is possible, and usually it is your CPU and/or RAM settings that will end up limiting the FPS.

In very linear fashion.

[pure karma]

as every game is

[twin dew]

No, some games do have intentional or unintentional limits, where the curve is nowhere linear.

[twin dew]

Point was that this part of your line is complete garbage: "Satisfactory is only optimized for up to 60FPS atleast for now"

[pure karma]

the comunity managers have said so

[twin dew]

Where?

[pure karma]

i dont keep a reclection like marv but i recall very well in a few videos they would mention there only optimisation targeting up to 60fps

[wanton orchid]

I mean there are multiple things at play
the studios is targeting for about just more than 60 minimum
but the game itself runs fine well over that

[pure karma]

now obviously that doesn't hold not much value when there isent a spec list thats based off of or a graphics setting either but yea

[twin dew]

As in using their time to make the most impactful optimizations.
Not that those don't help the game run at higher FPS.
But not caring at this point at inefficiencies causing lower than absolutely possible FPS at higher speeds.

So the 200 FPS could be 220 FPS for example with some specific tweaking to take care of "static speed per frame" things that are small percentage of the total frame time at 60 FPS, but major part at 200 FPS.

[pure karma]

thats practically what i said

there only spending most there time optimising up to 60fps

[twin dew]

Not really.
That line of yours makes it seem that the game wouldn't run well at high FPS, or that high FPS is artificially limited.

[pure karma]

that dosent mean it wont help at higher framerates

[wanton orchid]

the maximum fps will likely increase with the announced cleanup/optimizations

[twin dew]

Almost no code ever is as optimized as it could be.
As the effort required for the optimizations isn't linear line, but exponential curve.
And also usually makes the code harder to read and maintain.

[wanton orchid]

and also current languages/frameworks sucks in that regard

[twin dew]

Now IIRC that line about optimizing for 60 FPS means they try to maintain 60 FPS on specific test system with specific settings, in the test saves.

And cannot be generalized more.

[wanton orchid]

I think I worded it well
"targeting 60fps minimum"

[twin dew]

Yup.

[wanton orchid]

largely relative to elected minimum hardware requirements

[visual tree]

Anyone ever got a refund from Amazon for late delivery?

Because I got free delivery so I am not sure what they are going to refund lol

Unless they refund the whole order. In that case, I hope the package arrives after 29th August

[twin dew]

AFAIK usually whole order refund.
Also in some cases sending second package and people then have gotten everything twice.

Not sure if refunded on resend.

[visual tree]

I prefer the first option, praying the package arrives late lol 🙏

[dire igloo]

Yup

[dire igloo]

Full order refund for me

[twin dew]

The Decision Is Made - Boeing Might Be Safe? But SpaceX Is SAFER!
After 11 weeks of uncertainty and questions, NASA has chosen to send the two Starliner astronauts back to Earth on SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft rather than assume the poorly quantified risk os returning them on Starliner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvaSRfpW5iY

[visual tree]

Hope there won't be any more delays afer this and the astronauts have enough resources, including food

Although I assume transporting food and resources is much easier than transporting humans

[twin dew]

Usually 6 months extra stock IIRC.
And the US cargo missions use different type of ports on the ISS than the US crew missions.
Two of each type available.

The bad thing is that the change underwear for the Starliner pilots was left on earth to late load replacement urine pump.

That and extras will hopefully fly up soon for them.

Yeah, most of the change clothes for the starliner pilots got unloaded at last second to load that important ISS pump that didn't have on-orbit spare, when the in-use one broke down.

As they were just expected to be up for couple of days.

And there isn't anything to wash clothes up there IIRC, just replacements via cargo flights.

[visual tree]

I miss Chris Hadfield making videos in space

Speaking of underwear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1j6KLP492E

[twin dew]

Yeah, no point in bringing the used garments back down with the limited downmass capacity.
So they are put into those cargo craft that brought stuff up but will burn on re-entry with all the other trash.

[dire igloo]

So we're all breathing burnt astronaut underwear

[visual tree]

[twin dew]

Also astronaut shit.

[visual tree]

They use an incinerator toilet in Svalbard https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RTGUZapgaLw

[twin dew]

Better than having shitpiles that mount year after year when the "not frozen" time is too short for the stuff to get composted naturally.

[tough owl]

My school did not just decide to switch go NFC locks and the WiFi network they're connected to is clearly named 💀💀💀

[willow pike]

fuckin awful idea

it only takes one kid to figure out how to fuck with the system, then they all know

and the teachers are not trained in this, or have the time/energy to put out every fire this will cause

just use a regular ass padlock for fucks sake

and they will have spent big money on it that the people in charge will be very proud of

[dire igloo]

It takes a white hat there.
"Hey, I found this issue. This can be harmful in this way. Please fix."

And if it doesn't work with the school, take it a step further

[tough owl]

im so tempted to deauth it

to see if my room lock stops

[twin dew]

Electronic locks are the normal thing today for any large deployment.
But I have never heard about one that uses WLAN so far.
Usually in those most of the locks are passive and don't have any kind of need for updates.
And small part of the locks have active transponders that update the keys as needed, usually the main entrance ones.

But those active ones are using wired communication, along power lines.
When the passive ones don't have external power, and in some systems just use the key insertion for power, or inbuilt batteries that are replaced from time to time.

[willow pike]

they would never fix

[wanton orchid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTIwNMhFvOU ok I almost genuinly want to hang myself

I almost described the same fucking 3d printer tech 3 weeks ago

no everything is implemented

but at this point they will probably get there in half a year

[dire igloo]

Of course not, but telling them about it gives them a whole fuckton of issues should a malicious actor abuse it

https://youtu.be/1Q8WImF649E

[languid gulch]

dumb question time: what makes a pc (in this case windows 10) eventually just do that "brain fart" thing where some programs stop responding, and some other weird things like the right click options menu refusing to vanish, or your hotbar stop functioning

[night girder]

I can only guess, but someone will know what you are talking about

[wanton orchid]

likely ram swap issue

can also be graphic driver issue depending on software

[dire igloo]

too long since last shutdown

[languid gulch]

yea ngl it was a while 🤣

but like, why

[dire igloo]

memory corruption

[languid gulch]

pc successfully deep cleaned for the first time in like 6 months 🤣

actually not too bad, most of it was that tiny dust that lifts right out with a good blower

manually brushed off all the fans

[languid gulch]

WHY

[night girder]

A few days ago, SolarWinds put out hotfix for hardcoded credentials in web desk help

[wanton orchid]

your password does not look like an email address
password rejected

[jagged snow]

You are not allowed to have a secure password

I just went with 26 char alphanum, still more than secure enough 🤷‍♂️

[mental oriole]

I love it when

your password cannot be longer than 20

I'm like

why... the hash would be longer than 20...

[jagged snow]

Yeah 😭
Arbitrary limits like that are annoying

Especially if it was just imposed by some ux clown that mandated passwords weren't allowed to be longer than the input box on mobile or something stupid like that and the box is a guaranteed 20 characters

[edgy hazel]

3cx wants to talk with you

[wary olive]

Would anyone like a good laugh?

No? Ok im gonna show yall anyways

I had an overheating issue. Took off cpu cooler

[jagged snow]

Seen that one before 😄
At least you caught it, nice job

[wary olive]

Caught it after months of using it…

[jagged snow]

Oh, never mind then
Praise revoked

[wary olive]

😭😭

Luckily it seems to be ok

[safe trench]

[languid gulch]

everyone point and laugh

jk, welcome to the club!

i'll gladly take one of those over my old Dell tower where they had EPOXIED THE COOLER TO THE CPU

[wary olive]

Yeah that’s a new one 😭

[jagged snow]

Old paste does that sometimes, but it was also pretty common to use thermal adhesives in old coolers

[languid gulch]

oh it wasn't old paste 🤣 i used channel locks and a heat gun & failed

[jagged snow]

Ah

So just thermal adhesive
Fun

[wary olive]

Luckily the fix should just be thermal paste. Run tests play games and hope it doesn’t kill itself

For mine atleast

[languid gulch]

yup, easy fix

something to laugh at forever now

no real harm done

[wary olive]

You wanna see what I did before I realized the whole cooler plastic thing?

Just to see if it was psu/gpu

[languid gulch]

full disassembly?

[wary olive]

external generator ass PSU

No not a prebuilt just a cheap ass case I found on Facebook marketplace

[languid gulch]

i was just there a couple weeks ago. my mom's system that i built a few years ago had the psu go poof

[wary olive]

Yep

[languid gulch]

i wanna call the vatican to verify a miracle because it didn't take anything with it

[wary olive]

My PSU did actually die though. (Not the one shown)

It was an old esports PSU that was ran to hell and back so it was expected

[wary olive]

Unlike you my PSU killed itself and an ssd with all my games 😭

[languid gulch]

dammit that sucks

at least it wasn't the OS drive

[wary olive]

Eh could’ve been sensitive documents I needed

So now just waiting for my new NVME to arrive and download shit

[wary olive]

Lmfao exactly like mine

[languid gulch]

oh yea, wanted to really make sure it was the PSU before doing the full reassembly & have it still not turn on

went full modular with it this time

so much cleaner

[winged valley]

IBUYPOWER SPOTTED

[languid gulch]

🤣

[winged valley]

👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎

[wary olive]

ITS NOT A PREBUILT DEAR LORD

JUST A CHEAP CASE PLEASE DONT BANISH ME 😭

[languid gulch]

at least it's a standard case so you can do what you want with it

[winged valley]

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY OF THOSE PIECE OF SHIT PCS IVE HAD TO FIX BECAUSE SOME SHITASS COMPANY DECIDED TO USE REALLY WEIRD MOTHERBOARD SKU'S I'VE NEVER HEARD OF AND POWER SUPPLIES KNOWN FOR DYING

[wary olive]

💀💀

[languid gulch]

i rebuilt my dad's system in an ibuypower labeled P400, grabbed the mesh front panel off their site, thing's been rock solid since day 1

[winged valley]

(the shitass company is ibuypower)

[wary olive]

Yea I buy power I haven’t heard anything good from them

[languid gulch]

from what i've heard cyberpowerpc is decent

[winged valley]

The cheapest prebuilt I'm willing to let someone buy is cyberpower

But I'd much rather build it for them myself

I also make more money that way

[languid gulch]

yea, now that i kinda know what i'm doing, i'm building all my own from now own unless someone can beat the retail price

which ain't happening, ever

[winged valley]

Very few can

I believe starforge is able to but that's only because they have special deals bc they buy in bulk bulk

[languid gulch]

i was really spoiled with my first true build because i got a 1700X for $175 when they discounted stuff just after 3000 series came out

then covid hit & you couldn't find it for less than $300 for some reason

didn't upgrade to my 5600X until it hit $175 🤣

[languid gulch]

i think they're also trying to earn a rep for being a good company, so smaller margins but good rep will let them grow into the future

i bet there's a lot of fear about being kinda connected to artesian

[languid gulch]

i'm jealous of your NVMe location, clear of the gpu

[twin dew]

Why? You swap your NVMe drives often?

[languid gulch]

nah, when i had to install my first one i drew blood

had to take the gpu out, which meant reaching between the top of the backplate & the bottom of the cpu heat sink fins, & those shredded me

that stupid little PCIe lever thingy is RIGHT under the front heat sink fin stack

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-car-accident-the-fall-the-kitty-gif-8721145737079531731

[edgy hazel]

Anyone good with data science?

I just need to know if this graph is correct

[mental oriole]

Collegue ran...
Sudo chmod a+rwx ../..
🙃

[pure karma]

this is the quality stuff i check this channel for lol

the relatable rage

[pure karma]

learn something new everyday

battery saver disables mobile gpu's

and honestly i like that because i can see that being very handy

[edgy hazel]

Always some new shit with this fucker

Why is he blinking red didn't even happen during bed levelling

The solution: unplugging made it stop blinking

[dire igloo]

He's turning evil

[edgy hazel]

While I'm printing a gun?????

[dire igloo]

He's remembering

[edgy hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/sweating-nervous-wreck-gif-24688521

[winged valley]

This graph is correct because it's talking about the odds of getting pulled over, not the odds of a cop noticing

[twin dew]

And if the speed is high enough, the cops cannot pull you over.

Need to be speeding, which depends on your speed and speed limit.
And then need to be able to be pulled over.

[dire igloo]

Watch cops use this graph to justify getting more sports cars

[twin dew]

More fighter aircraft to replace helicopters.

[deft goblet]

Okay pc gamers, question for you all. I’m planning on getting a desktop computer in the near future, and want to get some state-of-the-art specs for it, any recommendations?

[twin dew]

Only for games, or for other uses too?

[deft goblet]

Yeah, gaming only preferably

[jagged snow]

Then it entirely depends on budget

And we can't give you a parts list until you're actually ready to buy

Prices change a lot over the span of months

[twin dew]

Mainly right now I would suggest 7800X3D if possible for the CPU.
Or waiting to next february for the 9000X3D:s for none to unknown gains compared to that, at higher price.

With single kit of 2 sticks of RAM at 6000MT/s with CL34 or lower, at either 32, 48, 64 or 96GB of RAM total depending on needs and budget.

[jagged snow]

It's kinda wild to me how much the pc ecosystem has slowed down

My current midrange rig from 5 years ago is still nicely competitive, that wouldn't have been the case even 10 or 15 years ago

[visual tree]

Wth is this??

Not sure if it's the reason connection keeps dropping around 4 a.m.

[twin dew]

Probably not?

[visual tree]

More than 1000 attempts sounds a lot (per day)

[twin dew]

Not really, depending what those protections/rules actually do.
As port scanning of all IPs is constant.

Just that that amount of connection attempts were blocked by the firewall over specific timeframe.
Would need to know lot more to say more.

But as those entries don't seem to be documented anywhere publicly, impossible to know.

Might be red herrings and related to incoming actual port probe attempts.
Might be firmware being fucked.

[visual tree]

Also, firewall security looks too restricting for some levels imo

I can also use custom firewall settings

[twin dew]

And those entries would be related to that "IDS" (Intrusion detection system).

The firewall settings allowed are very weird...
As there isn't option to block everything but related for incoming.
But that is default for NATted IPv4 anyways, but not for IPv6.

Basically the default should be the LAN-to-WAN of the Low, and WAN-to-LAN of High.

[visual tree]

That's what you get with an ISP modem. I am waiting for them to send pppoe credentials so I can hook up my own router

[twin dew]

But more likely the router/modem is set to autoreset at that time each day.

[visual tree]

It probably renews IP address at specific time but I am wondering why the modem doesn't reset itself sometimes

Not sure if it renews IP address at 4 a.m. or some other time

[twin dew]

Not IP renewal, full on automatic reset.

Like pressing reset button on device or in management / removing and reapplying power.

To keep firmware problems from causing issues when the thing runs too long.

Just that usually that has been on weekly schedule, if on by default, in the routers I have configured.

[stoic tundra]

Currency? Budget? From which shop(s) will you buy? Do you want aesthetics(the pc to look good)? Preferred color scheme?(black/white?)

[wanton orchid]

but not price wise though
people complain better new parts have been more expensive
but lower less expensive parts have gotten better at the same time
so now the same performance point is more accessible and require less power to run well

[jagged snow]

Oh yeah, price to performance gains have slowed but not gone away

[wanton orchid]

and as price to performance is not linear from line to other line
it means there have been more improvement in performance for price in lower range if you target same performance

Basically : a new mid range will have same performance as old higher range
or same midrange performance will be significantly less costly

[jagged snow]

Especially with the new amd apus, you can get stupidly good price to performance for low power portable machines

[jagged snow]

That's always been the case, it's just that as refresh cycles have slowed the improvements have too

[wanton orchid]

but I mean the needs for better performance as slowed too

[jagged snow]

Exactly

[wanton orchid]

So now midrange can pretty much do the high old range work extremely well

[jagged snow]

My 6700xt still runs all the games I play at 1440 high, 100+ fps

That's the newest part of my sysetm, point still stands though

iirc that's only coming up on 4 years

[wanton orchid]

in a way the price point to usecase came finally back to were it was

the hedt get back to being called hedt
and gradually stop being called "enthusiast gaming"
because now high midrange do well for enthusiast gaming

no need for x9xx parts for gaming

[edgy hazel]

😦

[gilded helm]

When did you get the 6700 XT? I think everyone who got RDNA2 or RDNA3 in late 2022 or early 2023 is probably pretty happy. So, herg and Cuyar also.

[jagged snow]

I got mine very very shortly after launch

I needed a new gpu asap

I want to say june?
Paid 500 bucks for a scalped card on ebay

[gilded helm]

Not terrible, considering the era.

[jagged snow]

Nope, and I'm still happy with it

Desperately needed a new pc and it was still cheaper to do that than buy something to last me until prices came down

Kinda crazy to think that my laptop cost less than that gpu did though

[gilded helm]

I feel like anything after June of 2023 or so, you may as well have built before that point.

GPU prices were fine in September 2022, definitely by January 2023. You also had Alder Lake and Zen 4X3D coming out by that time.

If Arrow Lake and Zen 5 X3D don't blow us away, it'll have basically been a wait for nothing.

[stray badger]

I built in may 2024 and it was fine

[languid gulch]

it's dreaming about being this

[maiden coyote]

That was my reasoning for splurging on a 2080 ti in 2020 before the stupidity hit

[languid gulch]

ok so current gen stuff has warped my brain, i thought that the 2080Ti was going to be WAY more power than a 6700XT

it's a 250W card

6700XT is a 230W card

which is higher than i thought

[gilded helm]

Similar power levels, but 335mm of N7 versus 754mm of N12. The 6700 XT has half the memory bus.

[maiden coyote]

40 series is great for ai stuff.. my 2080 ti handles ai pretty well.. which isn't something I expected to use it for when I got it..

[winged valley]

tensor cores

[mental oriole]

[wanton orchid]

👏

[midnight osprey]

the fuck, telegram owner in trouble!

[twin dew]

For good reason.

[midnight osprey]

really?

[twin dew]

As in he has been intentionally fucking up-

Not moderating child porn etc. on the platform with court orders.
Also seems to have done deal with Russian FSB around 2020.

But that second isn't part of the current thing.

[midnight osprey]

yikes

freedom of speech drama raises it's head again

[twin dew]

From Russian and russian paid sources again.

With same script everywhere, again reinforcing the rumors that the guy was FSB plant at this time.

[midnight osprey]

i don't know who to believe online

I have no faith these days in the estrablished news networks

[twin dew]

The guy was officially thrown out of Russia, with multiple lawsuits in there, but still had visited 50+ times without getting "nabbed".
And then in 2020 certain case to ban Telegram completely in Russia got quietly removed while the guy was visiting, and no problems since.

And his brother still lives in Russia, is active in both the previous platform that got "stolen", and in Telegram, both.

[midnight osprey]

interesting

[twin dew]

But the french thing is about court level moderation orders not being followed for child porn, terrorism etc.

And the guy came into country willingly, instead of heading back to UAE after trying to see Putin in Azerbaijan.

[midnight osprey]

apppar3ently it's a very small company with a small staff base

could be why there is no moderation

i personally don't use it for groups, just friends

and dating 😛

[twin dew]

Well, there seem to have been moderation of pro-ukraine content, but nothing else.
Even when court-ordered.

But lot going on, but the outcry about "Freedom of speech" started immediately, in coordinated fashion, coming from all the various pro-kremlin sources.

[midnight osprey]

well, I am a brit and still believe in freedom of speech, lol

I consider myself centre right

my spelling today, lol

[twin dew]

And the stuff the guy got arrested by France isn't protected in France.

[midnight osprey]

all of europe is going far left

we're all fucked, lol

centre is much safer

less extremes

whatever the owner needs to do of Telegram I hope he does it

[twin dew]

No, much of EU countries have major issues with russian funded far right getting nearer and nearer to 50% vote share.

[midnight osprey]

is there actual law being broken or is this more of a political thing about recent tech?

[twin dew]

Germany and France as the most problematic.

[twin dew]

Not following legit moderation orders by courts?

[midnight osprey]

"far right" is nowhere near 50% of people

far left or right are always minorities

most are centre left or right

[twin dew]

AfD in Germany has about 35-40%.
France almost went to the equivalent party in latest elections.

[midnight osprey]

I am talking about my own country btw, not a whole continent, lol

[twin dew]

Only late moment agreements between center and left parties prevented that.

By the second in position candidate stepping down in each race for second election round.

[midnight osprey]

I grew up left ... for fed up of all the extremist shit, so drifted to the right

even though I personally am on welfare due to ADHD, I will likely lose that in the future

[twin dew]

Otherwise LePens Putinist party would have gotten over 50% of the vote.

Ok, of the seats.

[midnight osprey]

but I still find myself compensating for a rough few decades, many are ... but the majority are not extreme or far right

is moderation of a chat platform that has end to end encryption even possible?

as far as I can see, all major platforms have the encrypotion these days

[twin dew]

Telegram doesn't have E2E by default.

Can be enabled per conversation basis, but not enabled by default even if wanted.

[midnight osprey]

btw, if I was a dodgy mofo, I would never trust that messages on an online platform cannot be used in the future against me, lol

[midnight osprey]

so setting that to on by default would be good, or bad for these social media app owners?

[twin dew]

Would protect owners from issues like this.
Would prevent Russian FSB from snooping all the traffic.

[midnight osprey]

lucky me, I have nothing to hide from russia, hehe

so why not just turn it on by default?

[twin dew]

Too late?

[midnight osprey]

for new users, and notify current ones it has been turned on?

I am pretty sure facebook messenger does that

[twin dew]

But would have needed to be done years ago to not be in problems now.

[midnight osprey]

that is interesting

but I am curious about the moderation thing

I respect societies desire to enforce moderation

as all comms apps can be used for both good and bad

but if the messages where encrypted, how would these social media apps be able to enforce it?

is it a case of one or the other?

[twin dew]

They wouldn't, and that is why actual universal E2E would be protection for the platform.

But as Telegram doesn't have that, it isn't a protection for that guy.

[midnight osprey]

yeah

I am thinking more of the future

[twin dew]

And AFAIK it hasn't been about general moderation.
But actual declination to remove specific court ordered content.

So nothing pro-active, not doing reactive moderation on court order.

But I haven't looked that closely into that side.

[midnight osprey]

yeah

to me it looks political

like if he chose to do or not

like elon insisting on free speech

I have been offended countless times on twitter before giving it up about 5 years ago ... but I still believe in freedom of expression

I also like the idea of ways to encourage users to be nicer, lol

but compelled speech, or a lack of free speech I am not comfortable with

[twin dew]

But not following the laws of the country you are nominally citizen of, explicitly allowing illegal stuff on your platform and wiping your ass with that countries legal subpoenas, and then going to that country...
What do you expect?

[midnight osprey]

I dunno, today was the first time I have even heard of this, lol

I am not defending a person

I am defending an idea, whilst not attacking the opposition ... more curious about how it can work better for both sides

[twin dew]

But point is, the arrest wasn't about free speech etc.
That is just line the pro-kremlin crowd has taken in clearly coordinated action.

[midnight osprey]

yeah, I think I misunderstood you on that earlier

[midnight osprey]

that does not mean though that anyone passionate about free speech is pro russia or far right though

I am 48, all I have ever known is freedom of expression

[twin dew]

Because the whole point of that pro-kremlin crowd message is to try to use the most likely to work rallying cry (free speech) to attack the arrest in US etc.

[midnight osprey]

yeah, thats normal

[twin dew]

Because facts don't matter, only the loudest message.

[midnight osprey]

politicians, lawyers

loudest messages and emotions

thats how an effective lawyer would go about it

we have come full circle

I have no clue who to trust online for news, lol

lucky me, it's rare I get into it

[edgy hazel]

The far right extremist party AfD in Germany got 30 something percent of votes what are you talking about. There is almost no left wing party on the ballot at all

"far left" doesn't really exist anywhere here in the EU. And even the parties that call themselves "left" have almost no leftwing policies and are more centre right than anything.

[twin dew]

And that the National Rally almost won the latest french elections.
If the centrist and leftist party blocks hadn't acted together to block that, they would be in power right now.

First round with all candidates, second round with top three.
In most voting areas the one with less votes on the first round from the centrist and leftist block candidates dropped out, to get the other one into parlament instead of far-right candidate.

[edgy hazel]

Isn't Macron blocking a left wing minister rn too?

[twin dew]

No idea.
But AFAIK the bad blood between the centrist and leftists is so bad that that momentary unity was a big suprise.
Even when both of them hate the RN even more.

Don't keep that close watch on French politics, just that if National Rally had won, it would have caused huge issues on EU level, so had to keep some eye on those elections.

[edgy hazel]

"Leftism is ruining us"
Nah dude your view of the political spectrum is just so fucked up that even the slightest left of the centre appears to you like it's leftwing extremist antifa policies

[twin dew]

But basically Russian financed right-populist parties have taken lot of ground in last 10-15 years in EU.
As designed by the financiers.

Which is also why Russia uses so much money to make migrant crisises etc.
As those are major part of the platform for those right-populist parties.

Same with the US south border.

Some of the people trying into US are legit and there via their own money, with real reason.
But lot are externally financed to get there, or there because externally financed propaganda showing the chances and benefits with very rose colored glasses.

[midnight osprey]

lol. I mentioned before I was referring to my own country.

[midnight osprey]

In the uk we have 2 dominant parties and plenty of small ones.

Labour used to be left of centre and conservatives right of centre.

[twin dew]

First Past The Post again fucking everything up.
And neither is far left.

[midnight osprey]

Compare ideology now to in the past and politically and socially speaking both teams have drifted a lot to the left over the last 40 years or so.

[midnight osprey]

Yeah. We have this issue too.

Reform uk won like 4 million votes and got only 5 seats.

The first party to challenge the top 2 in my lifetime.

[twin dew]

FPTP is UK and the rest of commonwealth problem.
AFAIK no-one else is still using it.

US is just farthest along the expected trajectory for that system.

UK is almost there, just with two party regions, instead of whole country level.

[midnight osprey]

Who?

[dire igloo]

AfD is so far right that the other European far right parties refused to collaborate with them

[dire igloo]

Germany does for their local parliament representatives, but that's only one part of parliament, the rest is from a list based on vote distribution

[midnight osprey]

People are suggesting all these immigrants into the uk are not simply opportunistic but intended by some dodgy group.

[midnight osprey]

Yeah, we need real choice. Not a facade of 2

And I use that word facade with real intent.

[twin dew]

Russia has been financing that for a long time, at same time as they have been financing the right-populist parties with anti-immigration message.

[midnight osprey]

I consider voting for these parties to be an illusion of choice.

We don’t really have control. Whoever gets in we all think we could have done a better job.

[twin dew]

And there will be no change until the voting system is changed.
But of course neither of those two want to change it.

[midnight osprey]

Yep. If I was in England I’d be voting reform. They wanna tear shit up

Oddly I’m in Northern Ireland which is part of the uk.

But I cannot vote for the people that run the uk, only the people local to me.

My vote and millions like me have no influence of who’s in control in London.

I find that a bit fucking weird, lol

[twin dew]

And Reform is the Putin financed party in UK...

[dire igloo]

Speaking from experience, the political right just loudly proclaim to bring change and to make everything differently - and then in reality they're the most incompetent, anti-people disappointments there are

[midnight osprey]

I highly doubt that

[dire igloo]

Look at AfD in Germany

[twin dew]

Very pro-Russia, very anti-Ukraine, the top people have lot of financial ties to Russia.

[midnight osprey]

Reform Spawned from Conservatives ... they are about as far right as conservatives where traditionally ... now C are more left of centre

[dire igloo]

https://youtu.be/K-hdJIWsK3A

[twin dew]

And they are exactly the type of right-wing populist party that Russia has been financing for long time to destabilize EU countries.

With the exact same financial ties.

[midnight osprey]

splitting Labour and Conservatives in the UK is not a bad thing

we need change

[dire igloo]

You do know that "conservative" is just an excuse for far right people to act like they have any democratic legitimacy?

[twin dew]

Russia isn't left-wing, hasn't been even during USSR times.

[dire igloo]

Russia is pretty far right actually, same for China

[midnight osprey]

why does everyone see conservative (traditional ideals) to be far right these days?

[dire igloo]

Totalitarian oligarchic regimes

[midnight osprey]

this is far right

[twin dew]

They painted left-wing veneer, while being totalitarian dictatorships.

[dire igloo]

Why does every far right act like they're just conservative?

[midnight osprey]

does Germany feel like it's far right?

[dire igloo]

Also, conservative is politically right leaning.

[twin dew]

Because otherwise the parallels to nazis and other fascists would be so easy to draw?

[dire igloo]

It's definitely moving right, yes. But current government acts pretty central

[dire igloo]

Exactly

[midnight osprey]

when I say far I refer to the more extrme sides of left or right .... if far riught consider themselves conservative, that doesn't mean that another 10 million or so are ALSO the same as them

[midnight osprey]

the UK is moving in the opposite direction

[twin dew]

Saying you are conservative doesn't make you conservative.

[midnight osprey]

in fact, already ruled by the left

[twin dew]

Lot of the right-wing parties, politicians and supporters like to call themselves conservative, while being anything but.

[midnight osprey]

in my experience

Conservatiuve is traditionally right of centre

not right, right of centre

moderation ... I do not know where they currently are, just that both major parties have BOTH drifted left

[twin dew]

I really wouldn't call UK Conservatives being anywhere near even center...

[midnight osprey]

of course not

the main media portrays it as something else

because the media is run by the left

all this being "too careful" about what we say

full circle to full speech

[twin dew]

Most of various media outlets are owned by very rich, right leaning, people...

[midnight osprey]

oh trust me, lol

not for companies in the UK

BBC, Sky .... veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery very left

btw, I am not saying either left or right is bad

they're simply opposites of ideals

[twin dew]

BBC is government.
And because of that, not really usable for in-UK stuff.

[midnight osprey]

I: have only a basic knowledge of parties and where they are

left being socialistic, right being all corporate ... and the centre hopefully being something that helps to raise the culture as a whole with nobody left out

[midnight osprey]

not any more ... was sold years ago

[grim panther]

What ist the title of this channel again?

[twin dew]

Political spectrum is two or three dimensional, not just simple line with left and right.

[midnight osprey]

no doubt

[midnight osprey]

clearly tech and clearly not interupting a tech chat

btw, the topic started in tech 😉

we where talking about freedom of speech and end to end encryption for companies like Telegram

I am curious about this other dimension!

[twin dew]

Where Telegram doesn't have E2E by default, and doesn't allow setting E2E by default, and the owner is in trouble for ignoring court orders.

[midnight osprey]

and reform got more votes, lol

[twin dew]

Lot of different ways to split stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

[midnight osprey]

aaaaaaaaaaah

yeah the news just waffles about left and right

[twin dew]

With usually authoritarian vs democratic as the other axis, then either economic left/right or radical/conservative as the second.

And if you include all those three, you already have three-dimensional.

[midnight osprey]

most democracies are the first?

nvm, lol

I am clearly tired

[twin dew]

GOP for example is very strongly authoritarian at this point.
Even when they try to show completely different face supporting "freedom".

[midnight osprey]

I consider Uk heading towards authoritarian

people might be able to vote but nobody is ever happy with who got in, even if they voted for them

and of course, as a whole we are much poorer than people just a generation ago

in the uk, traditionally older than 50\ would be more financially comfortable and therefore vote conservative

[twin dew]

This kind of stuff:

[midnight osprey]

thanks kind of ya, parties I can relate too 🙂

[twin dew]

And from same source:

[midnight osprey]

fasniating

[twin dew]

Not saying if the charts are accurate or not.

[midnight osprey]

never would have thought opf Biden and Trump both being right

maybe fropm a financial perspective they are

but politics is dominated by emotions these days

pulling strings and manupulating the public

[twin dew]

Even Bernie is right of center generally.

[midnight osprey]

the response to covid was authoritarian

[twin dew]

Financially.

[midnight osprey]

i must confess

[twin dew]

The US political spectrum has been very badly put into one corner over time by the system.

And the red scares etc.

[midnight osprey]

with refards to american stuff I thought authoritarian was right, and libertarian was left

in the uk too

[twin dew]

The US use of term Libertarian has been turned into opposite basically.

From the original meaning.

[midnight osprey]

oh!

no longer means freedom and freedome of ability (learning new skills, getting help, etc)?

[twin dew]

Libertarians are/were sub-branch of GOP.

[midnight osprey]

GOP?

[twin dew]

Republicans.

[midnight osprey]

ah

[twin dew]

Taking term meaning one thing, and using it as their name while pushing policies that have nothing to do with the original meaning.

[midnight osprey]

dirty

[twin dew]

Changing the meaning of the word in normal US policics completely.

[midnight osprey]

I used to wonder what the fuck was going on ... how can half a country not like liberty, haha

[twin dew]

The US Libertarians are the people wanting rich people in control of everything.

And no regulation at all for companies.

[midnight osprey]

yeah that makes no fucking sense does it?

[twin dew]

Liberty for the rich?

[midnight osprey]

lol

[twin dew]

Fuck all for everyone else.

[midnight osprey]

is liberty related to equality as I suspect?

these are pretty hard if the rich are the only ones to get what they want

if only 1 group has everything it needs then it's fail, right?

as a political system in general

[twin dew]

Again from the same source, very caricaturized and exxagerated:

Again, no idea about the quality, but in general gives some idea about split in that if taken to extreme.

[midnight osprey]

I guess I believe that an eventual experience closer to a utopia would be centrist

[twin dew]

But the source in general isn't great, just good charts as base.

[midnight osprey]

the 2 main parties in the UK that I know are not centrists

they have both drifted

and by quite a distance on many topics

[midnight osprey]

yeah, helps a lot

[midnight osprey]

I question after pondering

this not offending others is going way too far

or, people simply get offended way too easily

and this is coming from somebody that has Highly Sensitive Personality (putting it politely)

somebody so sensitive whom used to get hurt so easily

many times in my lifeI ... and I STILL believe that freedom of speech is eroding (and most valuable)

[twin dew]

Most world has never had codified freedom of speech, UK doesn't AFAIK.
Just that most of the stuff that hasn't specifically been banned is usually allowed.

Freedom of Speech is purely US concept.

[midnight osprey]

not because there are not things we can all improve on to improve our personal character

progression is a wonderful thing

but not forced

[midnight osprey]

interesting!

not pondered that one before

[edgy hazel]

Centrist are the ones responding to the question "Genocide or no genocide?"
with
"How about a little genocide but not too much"

[twin dew]

Came about because of the various restrictions on that that were implemented by UK during the latter years before the uprising.

[midnight osprey]

people in the UK consider freedom of speech to be able to speack out against anything

goverment, police, issues in the community

of course, hate crime is bad

and if people hate on each other, they need to improve

not sure if prison time is the right move on this one

I have no idea what people shared, but prison time was handed to people in the uk recently that retweeted things on X

[twin dew]

The concept on some level or other exist, but the "Freedom of Speech" as codified thing where government isn't allowed to do stuff based on speech is just US AFAIK.

[midnight osprey]

imagine having your life destroyed by jail time because you where pissed off at baby girls dieing then see some toxic shit and retweat it

[twin dew]

And doesn't exist in any EU country, again AFAIK.

[midnight osprey]

not excusing ... I personally do not follow anything negative, lol

but I think jail time are far too harsh

[twin dew]

And even in US now people seem to be forgetting that the first amendment only protects against the government, not against any other source of backlash.

[midnight osprey]

"baby girls" as compassion ... not literally, they where like 8 to 12

[twin dew]

But we really need to stop with this.

[midnight osprey]

well, I don't see any solutions out there

I have resigned my belief in the system

at this point I hope it goes to shit after I am done here, lol

[twin dew]

Ah, you don't take PMs from non-friends, and I in turn don't accept anyone as friend on Discord at this time.

[midnight osprey]

lol, ironic right

I used to get spammed a lot so turned that off

it was just gonna be a polite apology for waffling about politics

I have no shame about doing it publicly, lol

[wanton orchid]

that is kind of the stance to have to really enable changes
people forgot what change means
it does not means continuing participating in the thing that already failed spectacularly

[midnight osprey]

absolutely

[twin dew]

And I put my left and right top monitors back into position wrong way around...
Even when I had marked them with R and L on tape...

[midnight osprey]

lol

[dire igloo]

Watch further, he explains why.
Libdems didn't bother with campaigns where they didn't have a realistic chance for a seat - so they won those districts where they were in close contention and/or safe winners.
Reform campaigned everywhere equally which gave them more votes total but a lot of them in districts where there was no realistic chance for a seat.

[dire igloo]

You do know that you sound like a far-right conspiracy theorist, right?

What even makes these media outlets left?

[jagged snow]

Y'all are on a dangerous path

[willow pike]

lib dem voters were voting tactically, reform voters would use it as a protest vote without caring about who's in power

[jagged snow]

Veritasium just made a video on this, actually

[willow pike]

also lmao not our media

[jagged snow]

https://youtu.be/qf7ws2DF-zk?si=aW8rAjK9U8DVkclu

[willow pike]

it's murdoch up the arse

but I don't see how this is tech talk

[dire igloo]

Started off with Pavel Durov being arrested by French police for not enacting court-ordered content censoring (like child porn or terrorism)

[willow pike]

this is tech talk; telegram is not, and has never been, private or encrypted. whatsapp and signal are both super secure, telegram stores every conversation in plain text. they just don't give a shit

[twin dew]

Seems to have been Russian FSB plant since at least 2020 for that.

So by design with access by russian intelligence to those messages.

Which would explain why after arrest of person who officially was persona-non-grata in Russia suddenly caused all Pro-Kremlin mouths to start shouting about freedom of speech.

[dire igloo]

WhatsApp isn't. The messages themselves are but they still collect fucktons of metadata to turn into Meta-data

[jagged snow]

Signal is your best bet for actually secure and private personal messaging

Signal foundation seems to be doing good things

[dire igloo]

That or any encrypted email

Threema iirc also solid but not free

[jagged snow]

Signal just beats that in terms of convenience since it's free and works just like any other dm platform.

[midnight osprey]

I have shared no assumptions, only how things have changed over the years

haven't even disagreed with the alternative

[dire igloo]

You have asserted quite a lot of stuff and presented it as if it was fact

[midnight osprey]

nah

I present as opinions, lol

didn't quote any sources or even paraphrase

you appear to be assuming

most of what I said wasn't even a fresh diversion to a specific topic but related to what I read, lol

and I don't even recall disagreeing with anyone here

I am simply stating earlier I know how the media works in my own country

I know how biased they are, how they present stories later confirmed to be utter BS and made up in order to cancel somebody

there have even been court cases about it

[winged valley]

How is the tech channel consistently political like once a week

[midnight osprey]

it's normal that big events spoil into chat channels

people talk about whats on their minds

I remember when the Queen of England died, people where getting banned from some servers for simply saying they where sorry she passed

imagine grieving for what feels like family then getting a ban, lol

discord servers can be rough

[twin dew]

And on many ways politics affect everything.
So in many things there is always political aspects that can spill into the discussion.

[jagged snow]

Tech also has a lot to do with politics, it's pretty easy to jump from one to another

[midnight osprey]

yup

I have meant no offense today

had no clue I was even saying things that where not relatable, lol

anyways, my ideals are equity for all, not just the wealthy

[winged valley]

Wasn't it that one lady who fucked over ireland or am I thinkinging of someone else

[midnight osprey]

pretty sure that shit started before she was even born

many hundreds of years before, lol

[winged valley]

Oh ok

I know there was a british woman of power who died a couple years ago and a lot of europeans were celebrating

Especially the Irish

[midnight osprey]

I would rather not hear about people celebrating a death

haven't even seen irish people elude to anything like that and I live here in the middle of the shit, lol

as I am English I need to visit only certain areas of the city

[winged valley]

Is it true that english people view a 15 minute drive as an unfathomably long journey to only be taken a couple times a year to visit family

That can't be true

[midnight osprey]

nah

[winged valley]

Figured lol

[midnight osprey]

most travel about 60 mins to work

about an hour is the average drive time for a job

[winged valley]

Most? Damn I feel worse for brits now

[midnight osprey]

maybe not most

generalization

[twin dew]

Because it can take 60 minutes to travel 10 km XD

[midnight osprey]

lol

if I went back in to work I would choose a job and go and find a lovely home near it

[jagged snow]

And then there's me, the american, commuting 2 miles on my bike or on the free bus system

[midnight osprey]

fuck wasting many hours a day in transit

[winged valley]

The free busses in my area seem to be inconsistent with arrival times

[midnight osprey]

very cosy!

[winged valley]

Not that it matters to me bc I drive

[midnight osprey]

super easy workout right there

I have never seen free transport in the uk

[jagged snow]

They're never more than about 5 minutes late here

[winged valley]

I need to lift so I can throw my gf

I mean pick her up

[midnight osprey]

expect for a few months when the largest shopping centre was first opened

[jagged snow]

It's only because this is a university town and the school pays for it

[midnight osprey]

prolly be dwarfed since

[midnight osprey]

nice

[jagged snow]

IIRC city gov pitches in some as well, but the uni does most of the funding

[midnight osprey]

I might go back to uni

I am considering both game dev and cyber security

[jagged snow]

Once you start lifting, you can never stop

[midnight osprey]

addictive, right?

[jagged snow]

Yeah

[midnight osprey]

if thaat true I really need to start

got some weight to shift!

[jagged snow]

You have to be serious about it, and you can't compromise

[midnight osprey]

I changed my diet a few months ago

[jagged snow]

But once you're a few months in, sunk cost fallacy makes it easier to keep going

[midnight osprey]

ketogenic, then went all in on carnivore

lol

my issues are ADHD related

[winged valley]

We went from politics to british stereotypes to transportation to lifting to mental health, all in the tech channel

[jagged snow]

Also it is a fun feeling to know you curl your so's bodyweight

[midnight osprey]

I need to get my mental health perfect ... mental fatigue ... I cannot self motivate in this state, lol

dopamine does notthing for an ADHD brain sometimes

[midnight osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/xluna-high-five-gif-25422702

[midnight osprey]

dude, how many kg can you curl?

[jagged snow]

Around 60

[midnight osprey]

on ONE arm?

[jagged snow]

No, with both lol

[midnight osprey]

how much one one?

[jagged snow]

45kg for 3x8 is my typical work

[midnight osprey]

I have only done one, lol

[jagged snow]

For reps or max?

[midnight osprey]

I only know the 80% rule

[jagged snow]

I rep 20 on hammer curls

[midnight osprey]

and I forget that, or was it 95%? lol

the idea of lifting JUST below your max lifting potential and doing a small number of reps

I believe it was on Huberman

20 is decent

[jagged snow]

It really depends on what you're training for and your personal motivation

[midnight osprey]

thats my struggle

women love me for my mind not my body, and I am not shy in the slightest

so motivation is simply health ... less wieght, more energy to move

[wanton orchid]

hi again here

[midnight osprey]

hi again there!

[jagged snow]

That's all my motivation is as well
Although not because I'm out of shape so much as past injuries that lifting keeps from being a problem

[wanton orchid]

does someone have some guideline for nice new line && and || kind of mixing statements in bash scripts ?

[midnight osprey]

mine is mainly mental health improvements ... does that surprise you ? hahahaha

cutting out the carbs has done wonders for my mind

[wanton orchid]

like

[ true ] && \
  test
```I believe this should work, but not if removing \

[twin dew]

\ means that command continues on next line,.

[midnight osprey]

looooooooool

[twin dew]

&& is that next command is only executed if previous command succeeded.

[midnight osprey]

I thought \ was comments after it!

I have not done text based coding in years

well thats a nice built in feature!

[wanton orchid]

I know that Baldur, I'm asking for without the
it would not work right ?

[twin dew]

Yeah, because you would have two separate commands.

[midnight osprey]

like 2 lines in a function?

[wanton orchid]

it's never, because \ means escape so it either must be imediatly followed by key character or newline or it is ill written / errorenous

[midnight osprey]

• • for commentrs?

bah, lol

[twin dew]

Because the expectation is that each line is one command sequence, if not modified with something else.
That \ for continuing same command on next line.
; for second command on same line without any requirements etc.

[wanton orchid]

in bash

test &&
test```is error ?

[twin dew]

X && Y only evaluates/executes Y if X returned true.
And X || Y only evaluates/executes Y if X returned false.

Way to chain commands based on return values.

[wanton orchid]

I know on in ipxe scriptin you can do

false ||
test```and that works as otherwise the error cuts the script early

again I know semantics Baldur, I'm asking about the syntax

[twin dew]

Both should be valid, and neither would do what you expect without the .
As both would just execute the first lines first command, and the && or || wouldn't do anything as there isn't second command on same line.
And then the second line test would be executed.

With \ in mix they would be chained by those semantics.

Where the first tests/commands return code is used to determine if the second command is run.

[midnight osprey]

so the command that checks for a previous success MUST be on the same line or after the \ (as that denotes another line as part of the current line)

I remember Amiga OS

we had line numbers back then! lol

[twin dew]

Preprosessor just replaces the \<linechange> with nothing, bolting the next line to the place of the \ basically.
As the multiline is just for humans.

[wanton orchid]

false
true
wouldnt fail early ?

time to testing

hmm

[midnight osprey]

oh no ... "The Hello World" .... it's, IT'S MISSING!

[wanton orchid]

I'm not a hello world person

[twin dew]

As is would just run false, and then test, always.
on same line, would run false, and then run test as the false returned false and || makes next command only be run on false.
With && on same line would never run test, as false returned false and && makes next command only be run on true.

[wanton orchid]

I'm a This text means that your world have fallen appart ! You DOOOMMMEDDD !!! in the wrong path person

[twin dew]

With 0 being true, and everything else being false IIRC.

For return codes of programs.

[wanton orchid]

^

you went full gaz on semantic

when I was all about syntax

I want to avoid
so I will just let it be a very very long line

[twin dew]

And syntax-wise it is just about commands on same line?
With most whitespace ignored?
And \ at end of line meaning to bolt two lines together instead of being separate lines.

[wanton orchid]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twin dew]

That \ and splitting to multiple lines is just formatting thing for human readability.

[wanton orchid]

yes but it can fuck with text processing

[twin dew]

And if you want to split on multiple lines, the \ is mandatory.

[wanton orchid]

that's what I was asking for so there go my answer yes

[twin dew]

The base format is always just one long line.

[wanton orchid]

\ mandatory -> Ima going to write long lines then

[twin dew]

; is way to have multiple unrelated commands on same line.
\ is way to make one command string span multiple lines.
&& and || only work on same command string.

[twin dew]

So one line equivalent of this would be "false || ; test"
So false || <nothing>; test;

[wanton orchid]

you still talk about semantics

I never asked about what all these do

I asked how are we allowed to write them so they are triggered

[midnight osprey]

it's normal for people to be generous with info or ideas in here

[twin dew]

And I have no idea how you are trying to differentiate between the semantics of \ and the rest...

[wanton orchid]

the example I showed I always put an expected result to compare to aside of it
I never put something asking for what that means

[wanton orchid]

yes but it's frustrating when it does not participate in the questions

[midnight osprey]

so refocus the topic to get the info you desire, lol

can you clarify ....., etc

[wanton orchid]

I literally asked "is there any other way to write this without \ on a new line"
never asked about the workings and other operators etc
I specifically asked about writing/syntax

so I dont see where I have to refocus things other than warning I was not asking about semantics

[midnight osprey]

generally a good idea, to refocus to get the info you desire

[twin dew]

Then I misunderstood the original question.
And the answer would have been no, either \ or one liner.

[midnight osprey]

you don't have to do shit man

you choose to

[wanton orchid]

thank you that's what I got from all have been written since yep

[wanton orchid]

for an expected result, there are only limited syntax options, I wanted to get feedback about What are these options

but you can't write anything without it doing something else

it's code

[midnight osprey]

dude

I am simply saying if you ask a question and don't get the answer you want, either ask again or reframe it

[twin dew]

Two types of programming/scripting languages.
The ones who are by default line-based, and don't need any special character to end single command, but need something to tie multiple lines together (usually \).
The ones that are by default token-based, that need special character (usually ;) between commands, but don't care about lines.

And then there is whitespace and like...

[wanton orchid]

yep, still asked for validation though, sometimes there are a bit of mixing paradigms

[jagged snow]

Or javascript, which is technically the second but semicolons are implicit

[midnight osprey]

and first languages, lol

[jagged snow]

Line terminators are automatically inserted

[twin dew]

Nah, javascript is IMHO the first, but allows using ; to split, like many other line based languages.

Because you again have to use \ to split single thing into multiple lines.

[jagged snow]

You know what, I think you might be right on that

Consider me corrected

[twin dew]

Something like C-family and Java etc.
You always need to manually use ; or like, but multiline can just be done however you want to.

But languages where line is the default execution unit, you need to always add special marker to tie multiple lines together as one command.
You can still often do multiple commands on same line with another special marker, but that isn't needed when commands are on different lines.

So Javascript allows you to use ; to put multiple commands on same line, or otherwise too.
But if each command is on separate line, the ;:s aren't needed.
And doing multiline commands always needs the \ to tie the subsequent line to the current one.

[twin dew]

@winged valley
But for the new 9950X, with normal spec memory, it has about 3.75-4.00GB/s memory bandwidth per core.
Which makes it that it can only do about 0.01 512b loads per CPU cycle per core from RAM.
When it can in theory do 4 per cycle from cache.
Or that it would need to do 340 AVX512 instructions per load on same data before needing the next 512b slice from RAM.

[winged valley]

Oh wow

So memory is progressing faster than processors then

[twin dew]

Other way, memory hasn't been keeping up with CPU speedups for long time.
Which is why the servers are already heading for DDR6 as fast as they can, and why current server CPUs have 12 memory channels.
And you can get CPUs with tiny amount of cores but still all the memory channels.

Other reasons are per-core licensing and higher max boost clocks.

[winged valley]

ah yes per-core licensing

one of the most terrible inventions ever

[twin dew]

And the latency comes in that if the data that is needed isn't already in cache, the thread will stall for hundreds of clock cycles waiting for it.
With baseline with JEDEC being around 100ns latency usually.
And tuning being able to bring that down to 60ns or so usually.
Down to 40ns before DDR5 in extreme cases.

[winged valley]

What's the theoretical lowest latency provided ideal harware

Meaning things that don't exist yet

[twin dew]

1 clock cycle?
And some of the caches can do that.
Currently L1 is usually 3-5 clock cycles.

But larger the size, higher the realistic latency.

But now I really need to go, but the point was, RAM isn't keeping up, which is why server platforms have gone to more and more RAM channels to compensate.
Consumer platforms are just getting starved.

[jagged snow]

And also part of why x3d is so effective

[agile willow]

Because of data integrity. Consumer space memory is bad at it at high speeds. That's why I said there will be a paradigm shift in how we use memory altogether.

[agile willow]

Also security issues , search "Row Hammer"

Memory subsystem need a major overhaul

[winged valley]

Will there ever be a way to protect against the ol liquid nitrogen attack

[agile willow]

Major microprocessor vendors were more compute centric, but now research is strong towards "memory centric" architectures instead

[maiden coyote]

these any good? https://www.amazon.com/Timetec-3200MHz-PC4-25600-Unbuffered-Computer/dp/B0CD1D262V

I've never heard of timetec.. but my options seem to be them or a-data. I think gskill has a 128g kit too but it's 'gamer'

[blazing path]

'gamer' doesn't mean the RAM chips are different, it's typically an aesthetic thing, fancy heat spreader or RGB, something like that

[karmic socket]

Quick PSU/GPU question : does higher ambient temp mean more power consumption ?

[safe trench]

i could put gamer on my potato listing on ebay

people will bid way more thinking

it tastes better

[blazing path]

LOL

[blazing path]

or poor airflow

You generally want more air being drawn in than out, but you still want to have at least one good fan drawing air out and have plenty of air moving in and out of the case

[winged valley]

timetech is bargain bin mac ram

just buy crucial/micron

Also, the "gamer" ram has actual heatsinks which legitimately do improve performance

I put "gamer" ram in home and office pcs all the time it means nothing

[blazing path]

yea, those are both good... Kingston has been improving their quality considerably recently. A-Data is decent, not top bin, but decent. Same with G-Skill and Team Group.

[gilded helm]

Go to Newegg's gaming PC section, select the $3000+ filter, and be amused by all the options you get. Lots of stuff out there to try and fool people who don't know better. The 1050 Ti is still being sold in $3000+ options.

[safe trench]

what type of 1050ti is that???

gold plated???

[blazing path]

Gold Plated Kingpin Edition?

Diamond adorned Gold Plated Kingpin Edition

[gilded helm]

https://www.newegg.com/velztorm-partix/p/3D5-000W-0ZGT3?Item=9SIA7ABJJF9194

[safe trench]

https://tenor.com/view/ip-grabber-ip-grabber-thanos-gif-21846609

[gilded helm]

Note the CPU in the one I just posted, the 5900X was recently released.

[safe trench]

BROTHER

[blazing path]

5900x was not that recent...

[safe trench]

THAT PC IS OVER PRICED

[gilded helm]

I thought that's one of the rebrands they just did?

[safe trench]

6K FOR THE LOWEST OPTIONE

[blazing path]

Probably don't need to shout now, Shiba

[gilded helm]

Yeah, looks like I got mixed up by the fact they said "8 core" in the product line.

[blazing path]

True it is VASTLY overpriced for the low spec hardware that in it. I think what took the price up was the storage options in it. 8Tb SSD is not cheap

[safe trench]

make me

[wanton orchid]

Baldur

if I tell you virtualized burst workload host machine instant crash with general protection fault error
do you think cpu v/clock/instability issues
or do you think ram/soc instability issues ?

without any warning
everything very stable including memory stresstest and pcie mce (no) errors

[wary olive]

Well idk if anyone saw my previous escapades of being a dingus and not peeling plastic off the bottom of my CPU cooler

But turns out MB fried itself so gotta get the warranty for it

[maiden coyote]

I have my doubts that ddr4 needs heatsinks, even if it's running fast... in any case.. I do not need a heatsink. and if it's bargin bin mac ram and it works.. that's all I need.

either way, I just need 128GB.

[winged valley]

12gb is nonstandard for ddr4

[winged valley]

I once ziptied an ancient LGA1366 low profile cooler to my 12700K while I waited for a warranty claim on my aio cooler

[maiden coyote]

32/dimm is non standard?

[winged valley]

Im sorry I thought you said 12

Idk how I missed the 8

At least you aren't using nemix ram

[maiden coyote]

You're good, I guess I should mention that I want this for my 5600gt server. xD xmp is not going to be enabled

[winged valley]

They're actually bottom tier dies

[maiden coyote]

like I saw some 128 kits that were 250 or so

[winged valley]

Lol

[maiden coyote]

when searching for it.. most of what I get is ecc...

[winged valley]

My server runs 2x32gb of a micron ecc sku (ddr4-3200, or was it 3600?)

[maiden coyote]

https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Vengeance-4x32GB-PC4-28800-Desktop/dp/B085WQXKM2

[winged valley]

Funny thing, that sku is hyper specific and the only US vendor that had it at a reasonable price was CDW, which its now out of stock at

[maiden coyote]

there's this.

[winged valley]

Which means if I ever upgrade to 128GB im mixing dimms

[winged valley]

Please use that over timetech

You can just pull off the heatsinks if you must

[maiden coyote]

I wish I had ecc, but I'm pretty sure if I tried I'm in for a bad time and spening a lot of money

I'll leave them on lol

[winged valley]

Word of advice, Vengeance LPX is one of the best lineups for budget ram

So if you're trying to save on ram it's always a safe bet. They're using B dies from better models

[maiden coyote]

I'll go with that then.

[wary olive]

I was recommended by my brother before (who works in tech repair) to hot glue my 8 pin connector to my GPU cause it wouldn’t stay in 😭

[maiden coyote]

it's C18 so I'll have a little lower CAS

[winged valley]

They do have C16 models

Probably costs an extra 20 for 128gb tho

[winged valley]

Yeowch

[wary olive]

I was tempted just due to it being incredibly funny

[winged valley]

I'll just solder the wires directly to the power rails what could go wrong

[wary olive]

That’s what I’m saying

[maiden coyote]

I'm okay with C18. since I'm not enabling xmp I don't really see the gain of spending more for faster memory.

[winged valley]

Fair, I think vengeance lpx runs stock at 2133

Why not enable xmp?

[wary olive]

Personally I’ve always had problems with XMP enabled 🤷‍♂️

[maiden coyote]

I don't really see it having any gains for my setup.

satisfactory dedi's may change this.. but 1-3% is average cpu load lol

I run xmp on my desktops

running 2-3 dedi servers when 1.0 drops might push it enough to for me to think about enabling xmp

[twin dew]

No idea.
But if memory tests don't show issues, more likely then to be unstable CPU.

[twin dew]

Corsair RAM has absolutely shitty SPD profiles when you don't use XMP.

They stamp same minimum level one on everything, no matter what the chips could do at stock voltage.

And using XMP with more than 2 sticks needs manual tuning for VSOC etc.
Even when the kit is 4 stick kit.

Ok, the 5000 APU could probably do the 3200MT/s 4x2R at stock voltages.
5000 non-APU IODs cannot.

The monolithic APUs have much better memory controllers than the 3000/5000 series CPU IOD.

So I would personally take that Timetec kit over the Corsair.
As the Timetec is 3200MT/s @ 1.2V with SPD profile.
And Corsair is 1.35V XMP kit.

So as long as Timetec is using RAM chips that are specced for the 3200MT/s JEDEC, then it will just work.
And getting that type of chips today is trivial.

Corsair in turn can be any bottom of the barrel RAM chip as the RAM is specced to only do that 2133MT/s JEDEC, or 3200MT/s 1.35V XMP OC.

@maiden coyote ^

[maiden coyote]

thankyou

[twin dew]

And the MB will just autodownclock to what the CPU IMC spec is for 4x2R if left to Auto.
As the RAM on Auto will run at the lowest common denominator of the RAM SPD (JEDEC) max speed, CPU IMC max speed for that rank config and MB max.

And with Corsair you would be stuck at 2133MT/s without manual intervention, instead of the 2666-3200 that the first kit will run on auto, depending what AMD has set as the CPU IMC limit for the APUs on 4x2R.

The brand/company seems to have been around for years already, and no complains in quick search.

Even just getting four separate Kinston KVR32N22D8/32 sticks without kit would be better than the Corsair kit.

[maiden coyote]

I've seen a few people claim that the timtec ecc memory works good in their synology boxes.. I was looking into it before I went with truenas

[twin dew]

Why wouldn't it.
RAM is RAM.
The stick maker just might be doing binning, or buy prebinned chips.
So you just have to be able to trust that the RAM can do what it is marketed to be able to.
And that the warranty is ok.

And with JEDEC sticks, there is much less binning going on.

[wanton orchid]

thank you

[twin dew]

It can of course also be some memory access pattern that the tests don't replicate, but I would see that as the less likely option.

[wanton orchid]

I ran into crash after having setup ram slower also

so the crash is consistent independently of ram setup

so I put ram back to speed

and I increased vcpu and pbo curve positive offsets

I'm currently running at V+15 pbo+10

[twin dew]

I so want to switch the 4650G Pro to 5600X and 4x8GB RAM to 2x32GB...
But not today if I just can hold myself from doing it...

[wanton orchid]

I wanted to get better ECC ram ddr4
but sellers did a good job : it sold out before running price down

[twin dew]

Both are 3200MT/s ECC \o/

The CPU and 2 of the 8GB sticks will go to live in my secondary desktop, once I get specific B550 board for them to live in.

[wanton orchid]

I only have old B die running at 2x2x2x8

[twin dew]

KSM32ES8/8HD for the 8GB sticks, KSM32ED8/32HC for the 32GB.

So 8Gbit Hynix D-die in 1R and 16Gbit Hynix C-die in 2R.

[wanton orchid]

I pushed it at 3133mts

[visual tree]

Anyone have a recommendation for a new ISP modem from the list?

I got the newest modem (Arcadyan) but it's the only one which doesn't support bridge mode so the technician will call me soon and offer me some other modem

Ignore Technicolor FGA2233 btw. I think it's the FTTH model my sister got in her apartment and it's completely locked. You can only change basic settings through mobile app

[twin dew]

All are very obsolete, even that W724V Type CI 11ac.
Which would probably be the best option as least sucky based on the specs.
No idea about firmware.
The Huawei for example only has 100Mbit/s ethernet ports, not 1Gbit.

[visual tree]

Oh, I think it's the crap used for 4G internet

[twin dew]

Even that W724V Type CI 11ac is from 2013...

That ZTE is even older.

[visual tree]

Guess I'll go with W724V Type CI 11ac then. Thanks for the tip 👍

[twin dew]

Sorry, the ZTE was 100Mbit, the Huawei has GBit, but only N-level WLAN.

2.4GHz N-only.

[visual tree]

I'm going to put the modem in bridge mode anyways so I guess it won't matter much

I don't understand why they started offering Arcadyan (newest model according to the tech support) after the new law which forces ISP to let customers use their own equipment

*since it's the only modem which doesn't support bridge mode

Wish I was a business user, they get better modems like FritzBox

[dire igloo]

Why only those? Can't you use aftermarket ones?

[twin dew]

And using own VDSL2 modem isn't possible?
Or you don't want to spend the money?

[dire igloo]

Love me my Fritzbox

[twin dew]

Well, those are probably free.

[visual tree]

On dsl, you can only put your own router after ISP modem. Not sure if anyone bought a vdsl2 modem and managed to connect it directly to the phone line

I got like 3 spare routers, don't want to buy a 4th one atm 😅

[dire igloo]

Gotta love Germany, IPSs legally have to allow you to use your own router and modem

[twin dew]

Used own VDSL modem for long time, but that was here in Finland where that was completely normal and the ISPs don't do any stupid stuff to try to block that.

[visual tree]

The government forced ISP's here to let customers use their own router from the beggining of 2024.

[twin dew]

No PPPoE etc. logins here either.

[visual tree]

Took them a long time though....

[twin dew]

For ADSL just had to set the VPI and VCI to right values for the ISP.
And with VDSL it just works on all-auto.

[visual tree]

Yeah, I remember setting VPI and VCI manually when I had ADSL around 8 year ago or more

[twin dew]

So as simple solution for separate VDSL-modem:
www.planet.com.tw/en/product/vc-231
www.planet.com.tw/en/product/vc-231g

[visual tree]

On vdsl, I just need pppoe username and password (which I obtained) and I need to make sure MTU is on 1492

[twin dew]

Those are Router side things.
Not Modem.

[visual tree]

I remember when MTU was 1500 on my own router and I spent whole day trying to figure out why pppoe connection is not working lol

[twin dew]

Those two are just stupid dip-configurable VDSL to ethernet modems, no in-browser configuration etc. at all.

[visual tree]

I should probably wait a little since I am probably going to get fiber soon and I won't need ISP modem at all

I can simply connect my router directly to ONT

Some other ISP's won't let you use bridge mode at all on FTTH....

Well, one of them offers only a modem with integrated ONT so you have to put it in the bridge mode first and then connect your own router

While the other one offers the same thing but bridge mode simply doesn't work

Already installed the outlet on the wall for fiber 😁

But there is some microbending on the other side so the technician will have to cut off the damaged part and install a new connector:

[gleaming shadow]

How come, if I run memtest for 4 hours without error, and I run again with paralel cpu, I go to 1000 errors?

[twin dew]

Can be because of programming errors.
Or because the multicore allows more requests, causing data access patterns that the single-core test doesn't create.

Which memtest?

[gleaming shadow]

1 memtest86 10.7 free

[twin dew]

MemTest86 or MemTest86+, and which version.

Ok, for the MemTest86, almost certainly RAM latency problem then.

[gleaming shadow]

Was first run