off-topic-tech

[night girder]

I mean, just make your own community? And don't let in anyone you don't know.

[tough owl]

I don't have that much power in my friend group.

becuase everyone is set in the discord group my other friend made

[night girder]

I mean, a lot can get scraped. Even IRC. So... but IRC is more annonymous.

[tough owl]

#off-topic-tech element group when

or IRC group

[night girder]

even phone number authentication fails here. Because a lot of accounts were valid at some point. With authentication of their phonenumber and then get hacked and used by bots.

[tough owl]

phone number authentication is a privacy nightmare

[night girder]

We need more internet police that can track down stuff like spy pet and put down their servers.

but I am afraid that will likely never happen.

[tough owl]

internet police bot v internet spy bot

Dead internet theory confirmed

[night girder]

It took them ages to "take down" the 🏴‍☠️ bay.

[tough owl]

The US regrets making TOR network I bet

[night girder]

US has a lot of regrets. 😂

[tough owl]

what country doesn't

[night girder]

Every country. At some point.

But the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/good-twice-pride-double-fall-gif-8046560

[night girder]

But everything decentralized is a nightmare for law enforcement.

[tough owl]

decentralized is amazing

[night girder]

Bitcoins is a nightmare for them. Torrents too.

[tough owl]

Public torrents aren't

[edgy hazel]

by my new coin scammerscheme now!

[tough owl]

Its the private trackers they have issues with

[tough owl]

OK boogie

[night girder]

But even if you bring one down. 2 more will rise.

https://tenor.com/view/hail-hydra-cut-head-red-skull-villain-gif-17278080

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/hail-hydra-dr-arnim-zola-captain-america-red-skull-dr-johann-schmidt-gif-928517955405928387

[night girder]

A man of culture.

[edgy hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/nyan-cat-rainbow-cat-kitten-kitty-gif-5716621

[night girder]

Fuck it herg. You had to ruin it 😂

[tough owl]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/457105940844380160/1211171262664151101/ezgif-2-06db918e66.gif

[night girder]

Doesn't bother me. I am fine.

It's Nvidia anyway 😉

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/huang-jensen-nvidia-ceo-gif-19751265

[night girder]

Did you hear about NATO Integrated Cyber Defence Centre?

It's going to be in Belgium 😂 Bergen to be precise.

Maybe I can apply at the NICC.

[tough owl]

The what?

[night girder]

the NICC: NATO Integrated Cyber Defence Centre.

They will inform NATO about security risks in cyberspace and infrastructure 😂

[tough owl]

Sounds interesting

What limits do they have to test security risks?

[night girder]

They just agreed by it today. So I am not sure yet. Article doesn't mention that.

Their is a NATO top in Washington atm. 75 years party.

[tough owl]

If they have no limits that's not cool

but we shall see

so NSA but for NATO.

[night girder]

It's a bit weird they just tell the location of this NICC.

[tough owl]

You should apply. Get the job. And become the next snowden

Law enforcement this is a joke and not evidence in a court of law

[night girder]

Yeah, Snowden ended pretty well.

[tough owl]

Hope you like the Russian Federation

wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-9950x-zen-5-cpu-tested-at-230w-power-limit-34-percent-faster-14900k/

When will we get the 9999x

[night girder]

what does that have to do with Snowden? 😂

[tough owl]

isn't Russia technically the Russian Federation and isn't snowden there

[sand saddle]

Russia later granted Snowden the right of asylum with an initial visa for residence for one year, which was subsequently repeatedly extended. In October 2020, he was granted permanent residency in Russia. In September 2022, Snowden was granted Russian citizenship by President Vladimir Putin.

[night girder]

Ah sorry, I got it confused withJulian Assange’s who got "released" a while back.

He went back to Australia afaik.

[tough owl]

Assange is also pretty cool

[wanton orchid]

every centralized is a nightmare for law enforcement too
it's recipe for successful corruption

except fully decentralized is also stupid

falling for deceive and conquer

[dire igloo]

who's that Aussie military lawyer that went to prison for blowing the whistle on war crimes?

[night girder]

The one who were just talking about?

Altough he isn't a lawyer afaik.

[dire igloo]

no. David smth. He exposed war crimes committed by the Aussie military in Afghanistan (or Iraq? not sure, middle east)

[tough owl]

I know who you speak of

[obtuse geyser]

Anyone knows how to get rid of this popup, or better whole notification functionality? Win10, latest build.

[edgy hazel]

switching to ubuntu would be a great start 😛

[obtuse geyser]

Does not support 90% of my apps.

[jagged snow]

There are some regedits you can do to disable all "system" notifications

[obtuse geyser]

Please share. I'm fine with deleting some dlls if that fixes the problem too 😂

[jagged snow]

Oh actually

Looks like they actually added a toggle for it now

System > Notifications > Security and Maintenance

[obtuse geyser]

does not exist in my version

[jagged snow]

Let me see if I can dig up the regedit then

You have access to gpedit?

[obtuse geyser]

got pro version, yes

[jagged snow]

Requires version 1903 or higher for this policy edit to work

Disable all defender notifications:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows Defender Security Center\Notifications]
  "DisableNotifications"=dword:00000001

Keep critical only:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows Defender Security Center\Notifications]
  "DisableEnhancedNotifications"=dword:00000001

[night girder]

fyi, you can backup regedit before you make changes.

[jagged snow]

Group Policy Editor > Computer Configuration > Administrative templates > windows components > windows security > notification > hide all notifications

If you want to do it that way

[obtuse geyser]

thanks, applied, rebooting and crossing fingers it works. although wont be able to say for day or two because popus be random

[jagged snow]

Gotta love modern software

Still boggles my mind that the direction everything is moving is actually more profitable

[obtuse geyser]

wow, one of these removed that annoying eyesore. I have 20 pixels more for my taskbar buttons!

[night girder]

What do you mean specifically?

[jagged snow]

Just the general push to remove features and cater to investors by cramming AI into everything

I still don't understand where the money for things like copilot is actually coming from

[obtuse geyser]

No longer 'our' computers, we just renting the hardware and they can put whatever crap they please on it.

[night girder]

From all the adds they are adding to menu and the store

[tough owl]

Uwuntu

[jagged snow]

As far as I can tell, that's just a completely unsustainable business model

[jagged snow]

I have no idea what it is about my system config but I don't get windows ads
And also banner ads pay basically nothing nowadays

[obtuse geyser]

They are mining your data. want private cluster with no data exfiltration? pay them. and hope they keep their word.

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

[tough owl]

I forget microsoft puts ads in its OS after you paid for a license

[night girder]

I asked the same question, what is wrong with Microsoft at the moment.

They are trying to put advertisement into everything they can 😒

[tough owl]

Unlicensed I can kinda see it. Licensed is absolutely insane

[jagged snow]

To an extent, but I can't figure out how that would be profitable either
Especially where I have all the toggleable data collection off

[obtuse geyser]

ads? wtf weird version of windows do you have?

[jagged snow]

I still haven't seen them

And don't know anyone personally who has

[night girder]

Its in the preview build of W11.

[tough owl]

Start menu has ads and paid promotion

[jagged snow]

Are they still preview only? I thought the whole thing was that they were in release build

[night girder]

The advertisements they wanted to add to the menu, I think they reverted that change because of backlash.

[jagged snow]

Does it?

[obtuse geyser]

...don't use win11? It will be good in about 5 to 8 years, when w13 launches.

[night girder]

Or they released it.

But Microsoft wants adds everywhere.

[tough owl]

On a fresh copy yea

[jagged snow]

Oh wow, apparently

I just saw one
Wow, they're not disclosed as ads

[night girder]

Next stop: gone are custom wallpapers. And it's now an add. 24/7

Imagine that 😂

[tough owl]

Probably "paid promotion" type thing

[obtuse geyser]

active desktop is back? yay!

[night girder]

Screensavers = adds.

[jagged snow]

They just inject links to windows store apps into your recent files

And the one I saw was a sketchy free vpn

[tough owl]

which is the company paying to promote it in that manner

[jagged snow]

Yeah

[night girder]

Microsoft must be so poor 😦

Probably blew all their money on failed AI stuff.

[jagged snow]

I'd never even noticed that before, shows how much I use the start menu

[tough owl]

Spent too much on gpt

[night girder]

Still, it's a shit thing to do.

There is an opt out btw. If I am not mistaken.

[jagged snow]

I hate it so much

[tough owl]

Probably, but does it work

I don't trust windows toggles anymore unless I see a visible change

[jagged snow]

Best setting

[jagged snow]

The visible change is the toggle

That's all you get

[tough owl]

Best part is Microsoft has been ignoring group policy stuff

[night girder]

Open the Start Menu
Search and launch the ‘Settings’ app
Click on ‘Personalization’ option
Tap on ‘Start’ from the left pane
Turn off the ‘Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more’ option to disable the ads

[jagged snow]

Found it

[night girder]

Yes, that's the one 🙂

You don't need any of that. Trust me.

[jagged snow]

I do not

Gotta love the defaults

[tough owl]

You need ads in your face

[night girder]

Yeah, but if it was opt-in, why would anyone opt-in for ads 😂

[tough owl]

my school has a windows 8.1 machine still active on their network

[edgy hazel]

best setting

[night girder]

now atleast they can show ads to people who don't know how to turn it off

[jagged snow]

I need the last few pieces of software I absolutely need to become avaliable on linux(or a viable alternative0

[night girder]

it's fucked up marketing/psychology bullshit

[tough owl]

Goofy Ubuntu

[jagged snow]

And then I'll no longer have to touch them

[night girder]

I want gaming to mature a bit more on Linux.

[tough owl]

do they work through wine+dxvk?

[night girder]

It's going the right way.

[edgy hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/b99-holt-balloon-pop-gif-10094260

OS

[tough owl]

arch Linux?

[night girder]

But right now, it's still a hassle. Windows is install, double click, play. (Most of the time).

[tough owl]

same with me

install steam

[edgy hazel]

yeah proton rules

[night girder]

"do they work through wine+dxvk?" ... doesn't sound* the same ... just saying.

[tough owl]

Download.
Press play

[obtuse geyser]

windows privacy dashboard doesnt work for blocking the ads?

[tough owl]

huh

[edgy hazel]

can't wait for Cosmic to come out later this month

[tough owl]

until you realize the abomination of using proton outside of steam can be

[edgy hazel]

Lutris

[night girder]

Like, on Windows the chance are just higher it just works.

On Linux and Mac, it isn't.

People just want the easiest solution to game imo.

[tough owl]

its bad. The dev is working in partner to make proton not reliant on steam whatsoever

[jagged snow]

Windows is still the most "It just works" solution in general

[night girder]

Once Linux can do the same, and Microsoft keeps being a dumdum, people will go for Linux more and more.

[night girder]

Exactly.

[edgy hazel]

tbh the "it just works" argument kinda went out the window when they take all your data for the "it just works"

[night girder]

No it doesn't.

[jagged snow]

As it stands, "it just works" is more important to me than "privacy"

[night girder]

Because it still "just works".

[jagged snow]

When the alternative is most things taking me twice as long

[edgy hazel]

it's very much opinion based

[jagged snow]

It's all about this trade off

[night girder]

Yeah, but it just works. That's more of a fact.

[jagged snow]

I've completely ditched google and will eventually do the same for ms

[night girder]

We can find data have how much % of the games ron on Windows vs on Linux.,

[edgy hazel]

them taking all your data is also more a fact

[night girder]

And I mean straight out of the gate.

[tough owl]

github.com/Open-Wine-Components/umu-launcher

[night girder]

Not wine or nothing.

[obtuse geyser]

Run vs run stable?

[jagged snow]

Both are facts, the subjective part is which matters more

[night girder]

Out of the two, windows is more easy to get to gaming.

[tough owl]

privacy matters more to me(yea the irony as I'm on discord)

[jagged snow]

The funny part is that windows has significant enough overhead that in some case translation layers can still have a slight edge over windows native

Especially on slower systems

[edgy hazel]

kinda hard when one side is keeping everything closed source and is also taking all the stuff from the other side

[tough owl]

IIRC gtav runs faster on linux than windows

Mostly because DXVK is magic

[jagged snow]

Pretty much anything native should be

[edgy hazel]

most games are a bit more snappy in my experience

it just made me realise how much of a resource hog windows really is

[tough owl]

Once I'm in a game I cannot tell the difference between Linux and windows

unless I have mangohud up

[night girder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_games

If that list is accurate, it's nowhere near what windows has.

[obtuse geyser]

notepad+= doesnt work on linux, does it?

[edgy hazel]

this list is also ignoring that proton exists lmao

[night girder]

and all I am saying, that's a challenge for Linux. Once it can do that or get that support, they will gain popularity.

[night girder]

I did say native no? Like no wine or nothing.

[tough owl]

protondb.com

[edgy hazel]

which is a bs argument

[tough owl]

i want more nativr Linux

But I understand dev time it makes sense to rely on proton

[night girder]

Not in the context, people just like easy access to games. That was the whole point of this argument.

[tough owl]

let that 30℅ sales cut go to work by letting valve develop proton

[night girder]

You just take it as a personal attack on Linux or something, which it isn't.

[edgy hazel]

have you ever used proton?

[edgy hazel]

no it's just not really an argument

[tough owl]

its as close as click download and click play as windows is

[night girder]

You know, if it was so much easier in the first place, why do so many people prefer windows for gaming?

[jagged snow]

Once you get a distro running and configured, that's basically a non-issue, especially through steam

[jagged snow]

Because it didn't used to be easier

[tough owl]

Established ecosystem. People don't wanna learn Linux, let alone a new OS

[edgy hazel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolization

[jagged snow]

☝️

[night girder]

I don't know. I still think gaming isn't there my friends.

[jagged snow]

Have you tried it?

[tough owl]

for steam games it is

egs is a different story

Gog is simple

and who tf buys games from any other launcher

maybe like 2℅

[night girder]

No, because I just don't trust it yet. I still prefer Windows.

[tough owl]

you should try it one weekend

[edgy hazel]

then don't talk about it like you did

[tough owl]

Side note https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeE_gLl3j94 tf these companies dojng

[night girder]

a lot of games are still gold. Runs perfectly* after some tweaks. That doesn't inspire trust.

[obtuse geyser]

what about other programs, not just games? Games are not the end of the world for pc, its not a gaming console.

[night girder]

bro, chill. I just like Windows for gaming. Wtf you going do about it 😂

[tough owl]

Run it through wine or find a decent alternative or pray the devs have a Linux binary

[night girder]

You think I am the only one who thinks like that. I just don't think it's ready and I rather wait a few more years.

[edgy hazel]

most tools have an alternative. Tbh I'm still trying to find a good np++ alternative. It's just getting used to a new UI

[night girder]

You don't have to use a product to not want to use it ... like that's some dumb logic.

[obtuse geyser]

That would require me to change my whole toolset and suffer random compatibility bugs.

[tough owl]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ all the stuff I've do with a PC works over on Linux land. Though I don't do any professional work yet on Linux

[tough owl]

https://arstechnica.com/?p=2036853

[edgy hazel]

google "openai nsa"

[tough owl]

This? //www.cio.com/article/2152275/whats-behind-openais-appointment-of-an-ex-nsa-director-to-its-board.html

[tough owl]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/t-says-hackers-stole-records-nearly-cell-customers-calls-texts-rcna161507 another day another hack

[jagged snow]

This is an old hack we already sorta knew about

Same breach as ticketmaster

[tough owl]

article was updated today, im not sure what is new with this one

[jagged snow]

AT&T just disclosed that they were affected by the breach today

[tough owl]

ah

why did it take them that long 💀

[jagged snow]

Consumer privacy

They disclosed the breach to the FBI back in april

[tough owl]

shouldnt you let customers know when it happened not 3 months later?

[jagged snow]

From Ars

Shortly after identifying a potential breach to customer data and before making its materiality decision, AT&T contacted the FBI to report the incident. In assessing the nature of the breach, all parties discussed a potential delay to public reporting under Item 1.05(c) of the SEC Rule, due to potential risks to national security and/or public safety. AT&T, FBI, and DOJ worked collaboratively through the first and second delay process, all while sharing key threat intelligence to bolster FBI investigative equities and to assist AT&T's incident response work.

[languid gulch]

failing to let the fbi know would actually have consequences for them, failing to tell the public is just a slap on the wrist

[languid gulch]

#screenshots message

dirty rotten cheater at cooling if that's an A/C return duct

[night girder]

“As such, OpenAI's five-tier system should likely be viewed as a communications tool to entice investors that shows the company's aspirational goals rather than a scientific or even technical measurement of progress.”

I think that’s a good point.

[flat ether]

Visiting Friends without editing ability?

Or visiting friends with an editing ability, permissions?

An AI Assistant that directs you and tutorials your ass all the way up the chain

[languid gulch]

ok, i'm sure i'm not the only one who's had this thought, but why haven't we seen a keyboard with piezoelectric switches that recharge the battery

[languid gulch]

🤣

i mean, even a light amount of pressure

[edgy hazel]

Burning 12000 calories by writing in discord

[languid gulch]

maybe not enough to completely keep it charged, but i feel like even a 10% increase in battery life would be nice

[visual tree]

oof https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/12/24197052/att-data-breach-call-text-records-hack

Basically, nothing is safe today and whenever you hand your personal data to any organization, you have to pray they don't get breached

[night girder]

Pray they have a good security.

Also, in EU, phone companies have to hold records of calls and text messages by law.

Because it feels not very privacy like they have to hold those records in the first place.

From the cloud provider website:

Since our founding in 2012, the security of our customers’ data has been our highest priority. This unwavering commitment is why we’re continuously strengthening our industry-leading, built-in security policies to deliver a trusted experience for our customers. To foster ongoing transparency, we will regularly update this page with the latest security information.”

[charred pewter]

... and didnt hire any morons who stupidly click on things in emails

[wanton orchid]

those should be staged in different access levels still though

having customer support team accessing server security monitoring system for instance is not an excuse

[wanton orchid]

it blows my mind how many companies claims to use industry leading that and this
pretty much for anything randomly

the whole industry is leading itself it seems :🤡

[minor pawn]

Is the HP victus 15/16 a good gaming laptop?

[wanton orchid]

does it have industry leading Ethernet port ?

[minor pawn]

No but it does have industry leading HDMI port

[grim panther]

most important question: does it have industry leading RGB? If yes, it's a good gaming laptop.

beside of this: i would never ever buy a laptop for gaming, always a normal PC.

[stray badger]

I rebember the hp flexing problems from victus and omen. That was a big turn off for me

[night girder]

Yeah, all just marketing talk it seems

[pure karma]

lmao atleast its a "unqiue" invention

its probably just a worst hdmi port instead of a better one honestly

[minor pawn]

Yeah but u can't really take a pc set up to school each day

[grim panther]

you play at school?

[edgy hazel]

A normal gaming PC and a Chromebook would probably be cheaper than a gaming laptop

[winged valley]

Depends on what quality you want

You can get a 4060 laptop from microcenter for like $700 but it's def not the best 4060 laptop out there

And laptop 4060 smacks

[tough owl]

you can get a 4060 laptop for $700?

thats wild

[grim panther]

compared to desktop 4060? No.

[pure karma]

it smacks because laptop parts are trash lmao

id rather just have a hotwired desktop like GTX card than a actual laptop card

[edgy hazel]

I don't think a 700$ laptop has the ability to "smack" in any game

Maybe Bloons TD

[pure karma]

yea like mobile games whit an hour of battery life

[edgy hazel]

But that 720p TFT screen is gonna hold even that back

[winged valley]

You missed the point

[winged valley]

It's $700 on super sale bc micro center does that sometimes

My laptop is a business one that MSRP's for $1800. I got it for $900 secondhand and it runs great

12700U with a 3050ti

Although what's interesting is SIV identifies the die as a 12500

It runs satis, r6s, all the major games fine

Before anyone asks why I got a business laptop, hard to find a high refresh touchscreen with a dgpu

[tough owl]

no way they were selling those specs for businesses for 1800

[winged valley]

MSI Summit E16 Flip A12UDT

[tough owl]

ah that one

[pure karma]

honestly surprised it wasent 5000

laptops are esentially a free excuse to have a 5X price increase

[tough owl]

no?

[winged valley]

Anyone selling a 3050ti (mobile) for $5000 should be shot

[winged valley]

But yeah 165hz touchscreen is awesome

I can quietly play osumania with it

[gilded helm]

I mean, don't mistake me as a 3050 fan (mobile or desktop for that matter, Ti or not!), but it's more about what you're getting with the whole package. You're not buying just the GPU.

[mental oriole]

Why am I not surprised...

[tough owl]

Which laptop model?

[winged valley]

I already said

[winged valley]

.

[sharp oasis]

You ever just love when you fill a position that someone occupied before. And it's a complete nightmare.

I loooooooooooooove it y'know

Cus now I have to fix everything

On top of fixing other things

On top of daily operations.

And rn at 17. I'm now basically the sole person doing anything management.

Need to get a part

Need to ask me to do it.

This company is so fucking dysfunctional

Oh we need to reform. Mf. You needed to reform 3 years ago

Now your making me somehow deal with and maintain a camera system that's older then I am. In dire need of replacement.

I have to basically fix the fire hazzard of cables up stairs that is our network.

As well as video edit, social media manage update the website. Everything is so out of date

[languid gulch]

if they're going to be asking you to do management things, you better be asking for management benefits, otherwise turn em down

no point in taking on more workload without getting properly compensated for it

also companies don't care how much work you do for them, they'll kick you to the curb the second it's convenient

[soft bloom]

there's is a single reason: to get hellish experience and understand more. sometimes its not something you can get easily. but yeah, don't get your hopes high - either do while being aware, or don't

[tough owl]

OH yeah. My bad. Thank you

[sharp oasis]

OH ill be definitly asking for it

[sharp oasis]

oh i kinda didnt like get asked. i just got put yk

Now i get to work thu litteral hell

[languid gulch]

nah, screw that. if it ain't in the contract, don't do it

why voluntarily punish yourself when companies thrive off of doing that themselves

[sharp oasis]

I know why this shit is so bad rn

The company is actively diying

And they hired me

To try to save it.

Cus they don't have anything technology at all

The website is in dire need of a rebuild

And I have no access to anything cus of the last manager being a vengeful bitch and fucking over all the paswords

And Bruno my boss is too much of an idiot to have kept in touch to be able to recover anything

[languid gulch]

if they hired you to try to save it, i'd say that puts you in prime location for some compensation leverage

like CEO pay

[sharp oasis]

Yeah

Imma say mother fucker your either paying me fuckin bank

[sharp oasis]

That's what it's looking

Based off of how much is dilapidated and needs to be fixed

[winged valley]

Is this probably a diode?

[languid gulch]

no idea but tell me i'm not the only one who sees it

[soft bloom]

its a question of opportunity. investment in yourself. but, once again, no hopes for being compensated now, but could be usefull in future.

[edgy hazel]

Lesson learned. Always use a little more thermal paste than you think you need

Stay sosig

[night girder]

Bro wtf is that …

[pure karma]

gpu die probably

[dire igloo]

Very likely a GPU die, yes

[night girder]

so you put the whole thermal paste tube on a GPU die?

[dire igloo]

Kinda but not quite

Depends on how much there is inside the tube

But yes, rule of thumb with GPU repasting is to use more than you think you do

Any excess will be squeezed out

[night girder]

So what's the difference between a GPU and CPU die that both require different pasting? Since CPU needs less than GPU it seems.

Is the contact different between die and cooling mechanism? 🤔

[edgy hazel]

CPU has an IHS, GPU does not.

So just go sosig on your GPU

[wanton orchid]

that's also why you don't want to use all the same kind of pastes

[edgy hazel]

I use Arctic MX 6 on both CPU and GPU 🤷‍♂️

[wanton orchid]

also gpu dies are often significantly larger

[wanton orchid]

👍

but don't use mx4 for gpus for instance

[dire igloo]

Why not?

[wanton orchid]

mx4 on cpu is good

[wanton orchid]

it will more likely run out

gpu cold plat does not always go all the way down

[dire igloo]

Turn liquid or wdym?

[wanton orchid]

it is significantly more liquid than mx6

that's part of why mx6 as been made

[edgy hazel]

Yeah mx6 is thicc

[wanton orchid]

mx4 is on the liquid side of thermal paste viscosity spectrum

(although there are thermal paste far more liquid)

[minor pawn]

How do i fully uninstall mcafee?

[glass panther]

ughhh.... javascript event moddle is being weird

trying to do some oauth stuff and my singleton class is having it's state object get wiped

[minor pawn]

Btw how do i check how many m.2 slots my laptop has without opening it

[edgy hazel]

How do I make my crème brulee less runny?

[night girder]

Mhm, that is weird. Racing condition? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition

[glass panther]

don't see how, the code doesn't indicate that it's getting reinstantiated

[soft bloom]

burn your machine, drown the rest in point Nemo, change your identity, and maybe then you wont find traces on it when logging in to your new machine on Mars

[dire igloo]

Nicht anbrüllen

[night girder]

but you are sure your singleton class has the right state at one point, and loses it later on in the code execution?

[glass panther]

yup

[night girder]

a.k.a. you sure your singleton works in the first place 😛

[minor pawn]

Wut

[glass panther]

pseudo:

class LoginButton {
    readonly static instance = new LoginButton();

    #id_to_state:{[key: string]: string} = {};

    do_stuff() {
        const id = crypto.randomUUID();
        const state = crypto.randomUUID();

        this.#id_to_state[id] = state;

        // open google oauth with state
    }

    do_stuff_after_google_oauth_return({token, state}) {
        // state should be on this.#id_to_state, but it's empty
    }
}

[night girder]

Don't you have to check if instance isn't null before making a new instance? if (instance == null) { readonly static instance = new LoginButton();}

and then also return it ofc. But I am not sure how it works in javascript.

[glass panther]

I checked with private constructor() { console.log('foo'); }

[edgy hazel]

Certainly, dear user! To fully uninstall McAfee from your computer, you have a few options. First, you can use Windows Settings by navigating to Apps > Installed Apps and selecting Uninstall next to McAfee. Alternatively, you can use the McAfee Removal Tool (MCPR) directly from their support page. After running MCPR, reboot your computer. If needed, you can also check for lingering McAfee references in Services and remove them manually.

[edgy hazel]

Certainly! To determine the number of M.2 slots in your laptop without opening it up, you have a few options. First, look up your laptop’s specifications online—visit the manufacturer’s website or search for your laptop model along with terms like “specifications” or “M.2 slots.” The official documentation should provide details on the available M.2 slots. Alternatively, install software tools like CPU-Z, Speccy, or HWiNFO to display the number of SSD slots and other specifications of your system. If possible, physically inspect the motherboard for M.2 slots. Knowing the available slots is crucial for upgrading or expanding your storage capacity.

[dire igloo]

Wipe drive, reformat, reinstall Windows

[glass panther]

I think the cleanup code was firing early 🤦‍♂️

ah, it wasn't firing early, it was already being verified & cleaned up 🤦‍♂️

[night girder]

😛

[wanton orchid]

most full fledged actual people are not appropriate tools for education, tutoring, or any other high-stakes task, in the first place

[soft bloom]

... and AI's are VERY different. same as you can say "ooooh, wheels are responsible for road accidents - let's ban round shapes"

[dire igloo]

The issue with AI isn't the artificial intelligence itself, it's the lack of natural intelligence in the people that want to use it

You need to be aware of the issues and flaws it has and consider if your use case wouldn't be sufficiently served by a regular automated system that isn't AI

[jagged snow]

Neural networks have an insane number of applications and are insanely useful
Trying to do things with AGI that it was never meant to do like grading papers, decision making, or anything else similar is the real problem with the current ai hype

[dire igloo]

Every AI usecase that someone's thinking of needs to fulfill two criteria:

1. Automation must be beneficial
2. An inaccurate but versatile black box has to be better than an accurate but limited algorithm

[soft bloom]

Funny, but NNs are exactly just making a decision of what token to put next...

Also, let's not forget about the limitations of built-in knowledge widely spread LLMs have

It's all just about assigning embeddings to tokens (words), recontextualization and prediction of next one

[night girder]

I want to remind you of this. AI can be dumb.

[edgy hazel]

Its a great tool to respond to stupid ass questions in this chat

[night girder]

True.

[pure karma]

well someone has to set it up first

[dire igloo]

Asking an LLM for knowledge is stupid.
Asking an LLM to point you towards knowledge is fine.
But then again, Google already does that.

[edgy hazel]

More like google used to do that

Google is quite frankly one of the worst search engines nowadays

[dire igloo]

Google scholar still exists. But it's a nightmare to use.
I can totally understand people asking chatgpt to point them towards scientific literature

[dire igloo]

It's a placeholder for any standard search engine

[night girder]

I have to agree. DuckDuckGo here.

[pure karma]

i mean edge is still worst

[edgy hazel]

Edge is not a search engine

[pure karma]

but really none of them are good

[night girder]

edge is a search engine?

[pure karma]

bing then or whatever the hell the garbage edge uses is

[night girder]

you mean bing?

[edgy hazel]

If you mean bing, no. Bing is compared to google actually quite competent

[night girder]

I think DuckDuckGo uses Bing in background.

[edgy hazel]

DDG is bing with a privacy filter yes

[night girder]

Yeah, because when Bing was down a while back. So was DuckDuckGo 😄

I am just tired of all these google results that are biased AF. (a.k.a. you pay more to get in the top hits).

[tough owl]

brave search engine my beloved

brave browser not my beloved

[night girder]

ugh brave, tested it out in the early stages.

something felt dodgy about it. Can't remember what exactly, but I was reading the TOS and I uninstalled it 😂

They take "you the user are a product" to a whole other level.

They pay you if you watch ads ... with tokens ...

"Unlike conventional digital ads, ad matching happens directly on the user's device, so a user's data is never sent to anyone, including Brave,"

Their priorities are this: 1) advertisements. 2) privacy. And I didn't like it I think. And I sure don't trust that CEO.

[jagged snow]

Uses bing db, custom search algo iirc

[night girder]

Yeah, I also read something like that. But yeah, if DB is not accessible, DDG can't do it's job ofc 🙂

[jagged snow]

I like my mozilla software
I make my $20 donation every so often and have a flawless experience without ever having to think about any sort of advertising

[dire igloo]

absolutely, it's just so awesome

[night girder]

I pay 0 and don't have advertisements.

[dire igloo]

no telemetry tracking either

[jagged snow]

foss at its finest

[night girder]

honestly, safari/mozilla combo here. With DuckDuckGo.

[dire igloo]

Firefox everywhere. Edge for VIA

[stray badger]

isnt there a standalone version of via?

[dire igloo]

maybe, i used the browser one

it was only a few adjustment I had to make, swapping Y and Z, that's all

[minor pawn]

so does this mean it only has 1 slot or does it have 2 slots for m.2? Cause i don't know

[mental oriole]

[night girder]

YT algorithm is a freaking mess. And what's the point of clicking the 3 dots next to a video and click "Not interested"? I been doing it all day, and YT keeps recommending videos about the same subject. I clicked 10 of those videos away, but it seems to get worse. I really think YT spaghetti code is reaching it's limits.

[jagged snow]

The problem is it's not code

Just a giant black box of an algo

[night girder]

what do you think algorithm is... non coded? 🤨

[tough owl]

nah its AI

artificial indian, they got them carefully crafting everyones home page

[night girder]

on the fly 😂

[tough owl]

exactly

[minor pawn]

someone?

[night girder]

👆

[jagged snow]

It's a neural network

There's code that trained it, but nobody knows what exactly is happening

[jagged snow]

Mechanical turk is pretty cheap

[night girder]

There is still code involved.

[edgy hazel]

so is chatgpt. It can still have unexpected stuff

[night girder]

Who said anything about unexpected stuff?

[night girder]

👆

[edgy hazel]

like the "Not Interested" not working....

[night girder]

Not working? I clicked it 15 times by now! And it still gives me the same videos about a dude getting shot in the ear.

[edgy hazel]

the algo pushing right wing stuff prolly overwrites your preferences since it's way more profitable for yt

[night girder]

a real neural network would have picked up the common subject by now and exclude those videos from my list.

[jagged snow]

I specifically avoid politics on youtube and my homepage is free of that except fo the breaking news section

[jagged snow]

Would it?

[night girder]

So, that's what I said. Biased. And coded.

[edgy hazel]

that's the nature of any NN

[night girder]

Not like Fight or Flight makes it out to be a "black box" and nobody knows what's going on. You expect too much of YT.

[jagged snow]

Is there anything you're basing your argument on?

[edgy hazel]

at this point yts algo is pretty much a black box that's correct. They admitted it themselves

[dire igloo]

recency bias is super strong

[night girder]

Yes, I clicked 15 videos away with the same subject. And the videos keep appearing in my feed. Something is not right.

[jagged snow]

@night girder official youtube blog
blog.youtube/inside-youtube/on-youtubes-recommendation-system/

[jagged snow]

Might not be live feedback on the "not interested" button, or it might just be totally broken
The second seems more likely to me

[dire igloo]

depending on implementation, "Not Interested" may only lower a score and not actually put it on a blacklist

[night girder]

Yeah, but the scored should be dumped by now. Like in the negatives.

[dire igloo]

kinda like a "user preference" score that is decreased - but if all of the other factors of the score are high enough, it can still show up

[night girder]

I rarely click "not interested", if a user suddenly starts clicking it every hour. Somethings up. But I might expect too much intelligence from their algorithm.

[jagged snow]

It should but that doesn't mean it is

[edgy hazel]

you may also hover over the video which might show that you're interested. Nobody knows

[night girder]

the same that every x video in the list is a low viewed video. It's NOT random. It's hard coded as hell.

[jagged snow]

Just because the nn pushes small creators doesn't mean there's code somewhere that's doing that

It might just be that their training weights it really heavily

[night girder]

No, your right. YT employee told the computer to do this. And it magically happened.

ofcourse it's coded in!

[jagged snow]

That is pretty much how this kind of thing works

[jagged snow]

I think you need a primer on reinforcement learning

[tough owl]

the not interested button actually works for me

[jagged snow]

I've never used it

[tough owl]

also nuking your watch history will help too since It feels like its a really heavy weight on the algo

[minor pawn]

Yeah i used one of the programs but idk if the pic i sent is showing 1 or 2 m.2 slots

[night girder]

If you believe, there is 0 code guiding the algorithm for home feed in a certain way, you are naive.

[jagged snow]

I've done that a few times

[jagged snow]

I never said that

I'm sure there are hardcoded safeties, just like with chatgpt etc

[night girder]

The YT algo isn't only trained and then put out in the wild. Even ChatGPT doesn't work like that.

[jagged snow]

However, the majority of the reccomendations are a "black box"

[edgy hazel]

Certainly! If you provide me with the laptop model, I’ll do my best to find out how many M.2 slots it has. 😊

[night girder]

The link you gave me. Says otherwise: "But all too often, recommendations are seen as a mysterious black box. We want these systems to be publicly understood, so let me explain how they work, how they’ve evolved, and why we’ve made delivering responsible recommendations our top priority."

[jagged snow]

And then he goes on to basically explain model weights

[night girder]

It's not magic. They have full control over it.

[minor pawn]

I looked everywhere already and i can't find it

[edgy hazel]

I understand that it can be frustrating when information isn’t readily available. Unfortunately, without specific details about the laptop model, I won’t be able to provide an accurate answer regarding the M.2 slots. If you happen to come across the model name in the future, feel free to ask again, and I’ll be here to assist! 😊👍

[pure karma]

idk a magical xray perhapse

in all seriousness i asked the same question however many months ago and i got the same silence... the best answer i can give you is no unless its specifically listed somewhere physically or maybe if you look up the motherboard or so on....

[edgy hazel]

how many people do you think know how many m.2 slots a specific laptop model has?

So the question isn't "Does anyone know how many slots the Lenovo 420 has" but it's actually "Can someone please act like my personal search assistant"

[pure karma]

il twist your question the same way you twist my questions... is there a piece of software to find out if no just say so....

[jagged snow]

Hwinfo should tell you

Again, this is a 5 minute google search

[edgy hazel]

still very much a googleable question

[jagged snow]

Learn to be just the slightest bit self-sufficient

[edgy hazel]

this is tech-talk and not tech-support

[jagged snow]

Even questions like this drive me nuts #off-topic-tech message
I googled it and it was the second result

[minor pawn]

Yeah but idk if it shows multiple different slots or not

[edgy hazel]

like dude we're not your search engine

[jagged snow]

FIND OUT

For yourself
please

[pure karma]

il tell you it dosent

it just lists which ones you have used not how many there are

[edgy hazel]

the laptop has 3 m.2 slots

there you go.

[jagged snow]

This really did not need to be that difficult

[minor pawn]

Thanks

[edgy hazel]

And if you ever open the laptop to install your brand new NVME, and only see one slot which is already occupied, you'll realise that the random dude in a discord channel has just pulled that number out of his ass.

[jagged snow]

This makes it look like there's only one but it's entirely possible that there's a second slot which is sata only

[pure karma]

honestly at this point just look up the motherboard and physically look for the slots on a image of it

[jagged snow]

Most NVME m.2 slots are 4 lanes, a small number are two

[stray badger]

It has 4 1 lane slots, 1 4 lane slot and 1 8 lane slot it looks like

[stray badger]

I think it a slot for wifi card, 1 ssd slot, and the 8x is for the GPU if it has one

Tbh just watch a teardown vid

[edgy hazel]

shh don't tell them to do any actual research on their own

I'm way too invested into "Does the Samsung Chunk24 TV have a USB slot?" type questions

@stray badger u inspired me to be proud of myself again

[tough owl]

USB 3.2 gen 2 x2?

[wanton orchid]

how does these companies sell cheap products with pcie switches in them
the good ones are like 50 to 100 dollars per units

[jagged snow]

They don't use good ones

[wanton orchid]

Also consuming 15W of power like freaking hell
that thing is scanning the data going through at this point

[languid gulch]

remember when a single fucking light bulb sucked down 60W?

[wanton orchid]

a light bulb produces light
we are talking about something millimeters size, that is merely routing existing signals

[languid gulch]

oh i know 🤣 just wild

[wanton orchid]

your 200 dollars smartphone, is routing more stuff have a screen and audio and usb power converters, 4g 5g wifi 6 7
yet cost about the same, and use less power

[languid gulch]

my 5600X runs at like 10W when not gaming, the efficiency improvements over the last few years is really astounding

[wanton orchid]

would you rather buy a 8 core snapdragon, with 16 integrated lines, dsp and vdpu, gpu, and 20MB of high speed cache
or, a pcie gen3 4 lane signal routing device

that draws 4 times more power

[languid gulch]

🤣 oh i can't wait to see ARM be a 3nd competitor to amd & intel

[wanton orchid]

I'm not talking about fully featured cpu

I'm talking about a 4 lanes pcie routing device

this is scam at this point

[languid gulch]

i wonder if it's one of those "licensing exclusivity" things

[wanton orchid]

maybe after 30years of experience once intel will fix the new spectre issues on the branch 5 level deep predictor uWindows caching ops queue fetcher vectorization
this will have the knowledge to create pcie powered buses 🤡

[languid gulch]

i know that amd has a fair amount of common exploits, but wow i have 0 interest in going with intel given the recent issues

[wanton orchid]

I mean my point was you can buy $50 full featured cpu, that have more pcie capabilities and run on lower power than these "last gen pcie switch"

enhce the data mining device joke

[languid gulch]

it'd be nice to just be able to slot one of those

now you've got me wondering if there'll be a replacement for the PCIe slot

[dire igloo]

First, we're getting rid of RAM slots.
CAMM2 baby

[languid gulch]

ok, i haven't investigated, but i heard talk of putting a dedicated NVMe slot onto GPUs is going to be a thing?

[wanton orchid]

why would you

[languid gulch]

maybe a smaller connector, with the option to still have external power for it

[wanton orchid]

my point was pcie are integrated into cpu silicon
with far more complexity and power than a basic switch

[languid gulch]

yea true

i just wanna know what PC guts are gonna look like in 10 years 🤣

[wanton orchid]

I mean what did it looked like to you 10years ago

ddr3 instead of ddr5

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[languid gulch]

LGA15000

also we need a photoshop of Steve with hair down to the ground

[pure karma]

a big copper brick wall

[soft bloom]

but bugs don't have hair, do they?

[languid gulch]

do caterpillars count?

[twin dew]

Because the Herg instructions were NN generated garbage, and those programs listed don't show M.2 slots, just PCIe link.
As already said, most likely single M.2 SSD slot.
I often use Kingstons search by system/device to see that kind of thing, it is usually right:
Kingston Product Finder, Search by System/Device, on main page about halfway down.
www.kingston.com/en

If the official specs don't specify.

For my current laptop they fuck up at least partially for the SSD support side and say that there is support for 2.5" 7mm SATA drives when there isn't.
But then they only list that the computer has single expansion socket, as it only has single M.2 SSD slot.

[soft bloom]

that's different kind of bug, also its' not a grown species

[languid gulch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzHcrbT5D_Y

intel putting out garbage to everyone, and it sounds like clients are finally getting fed up with keeping quiet about it

wendell's predicting a 50% failure rate with his observations, OEMs saying they're being conservative saying 15-30%

at least for 13/14th gen

& not OC'd, just bone stock, even in W680 servers running ram as low as 4200

[twin dew]

For 900s only probably, with 700s being way down and 600s and down not really affected.

Buildzoid and several others have speculated based on That video and the GN cooperation one that it is excessive VCore killing the ring-bus.

[languid gulch]

i suspect wendell & GN are going to be coming out in the next week or 2 with dedicated videos on it

i wonder if it's multiple issues with the architecture

[twin dew]

Warframe devs numbers:

forums.warframe.com/topic/1405008-instability-on-recent-intel-processors/

And the slices line up pretty nicely with the VCore max spread from OC people binning CPUs.

[languid gulch]

that still seems like a lot of failures in the 700 series for it to show up in the pie like that

i wonder if it's a progressive issue & we're about to see a spike in the 700/600 series failing

[twin dew]

With anything that hits about and up 1.4V for VCore being affected, with the higher above that it hits being the slice in the pie.

They don't hit the "minimum" VCore even on bad bins to degrade the ring-bus, if the buildzoid speculation is correct.

And ring-bus is the thing that moves all the bits between the cores and IO.

[languid gulch]

so it might be more than 1 thing going wrong

[twin dew]

You can watch the whole rant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUzbNNhECp4

[mental oriole]

Amd for next pc then.

[languid gulch]

strangely 12900K seems ok

[twin dew]

Lower than wanted VCore from the MB maker stuff, degrading silicon from excessive VCore.
Second causes first to cause more issues over time.

[twin dew]

12th gen had different ring-bus.

[languid gulch]

ah

3600X is still a decent cpu

[twin dew]

Was much slower for max clocks in 12th gen compared to 13th/14th.

And the CPUs didn't get as much voltage either probably.

[languid gulch]

could they have tried to "beef up" the ring bus to handle the "just pump power into a 12900 until we can call it something else" and it just failed?

[twin dew]

The Igorslab CPU binning data for Intel 13th and 14th gen:
www.igorslab.de/en/r-batches-13900kss-and-imc-regressions-intel-core-14th-gen-binning-results-from-almost-600-cpus/3/
What is the max voltage the specific CPU models hit in what spread with 154 14900Ks and 70 14900KF:s tested for example.

[languid gulch]

is there any data on if the failures are tied to power or thermal cycles?

[twin dew]

Just to operating time in the datacenter, but those systems don't really get power cycles and probably not that high thermal cycling.

[languid gulch]

i'd also tend to agree but this kinda screams "the ring bus might be so sensitive that even mild thermal cycling would make it fail"

or something crazy like that

[twin dew]

But as simplification, if there was hard cutoff at 1400mV of Vcore for the degradation to happen, and the VRM was perfect, almost all of the tested 900:s would be affected, about 75% of the 14700:s, about half the 13700s and almost none of the 600s.

Why would it need any thermal cycling, if the ring-bus fets just cannot take the Vcore?

And that area of the silicon/those fets degrade.

[languid gulch]

it's happening everywhere

[twin dew]

Until they get unstable.

No, just better tracking.

[languid gulch]

uhhhhh good luck getting that info out of a company or intel

[twin dew]

They counted cases that single crash in week of 24/7 usage.

And the video does say that how many consumers would really notice one BSOD per month for example.

And tie it to this issue, and not just some random crash.

[languid gulch]

wendell getting anyone in the industry to not just let him in, but also publish info on it, tells me that it's a BIG problem, one that's bigger than anyone has been willing to admit to so far, but now companies are getting fed up with keeping it quiet

[twin dew]

Expectation for stability is different between data center operator and consumer.
So the reported failure rate will be higher for the data center side at first.

Even when actual failure rate is the same.

[languid gulch]

but also datacenters are famous for running stuff as tamely as possible, & even them having massive failure rates is telling

[twin dew]

Just to stuck, not tamely.

[languid gulch]

it's like seeing a toyota engine fail at 100k miles

[twin dew]

And if it is the stock vcore being too high, then it would hit the data center the same.

If the load was one that didn't use all the cores, but just the few.

And in those cases, often the tasks that run on the consumer CPUs are the ones that need the highest possible boost for single thread.

For everything else it is better to just get high-clocked data center systems.

And not use consumer CPUs.

[languid gulch]

contracts

multi-decade-long contracts & history

[twin dew]

Mindshare, Intel kickbacks to OEMs, etc.

[languid gulch]

yes but also Intel has the market share sledgehammer, plus making their own stuff (mostly)

[twin dew]

Those kickbacks still happen, even when that caused Intel to lose in court once for those.

[languid gulch]

yup

[twin dew]

But the penalty was much less than the profits.

[languid gulch]

also intel could choose to blacklist you if you jump over to AMD even once

even if their CPUs fucking torch themselves and you, ya know, need computers to run your company

[twin dew]

That is the kickback thing.
If you buy just/mainly Intel CPUs, you get part of the buy-price back later.
If you sell too much AMD, you get lower in the delivery queue and lose those kickbacks, so the Intel CPUs cost significantly more.

Also shared marketing, more Intel engineer support for MB & firmware development etc.

Shared marketing as in Intel gives you money for marketing.

[languid gulch]

but wow is this a special degree of ouchie out of intel so far

iirc there was something on AM3 that wasn't good

[twin dew]

AMD had bad TLB bug.
Intels latest Xeon silicon gen was complete clusterfuck in development and arrived couple of years late and after 20+ silicon revisions (when normally it is 0-2 before coming to market).

Both have minor bugs that get fixed in firmware all the time.

[languid gulch]

am4 was just last gen

[twin dew]

No, Phenom 1.

For the TLB.

[languid gulch]

oh jeez that was a long time ago 🤣

[twin dew]

Intel 11th gen Core/Tiger Lake errata as example:
edc.intel.com/content/www/us/en/secure/design/confidential/products-and-solutions/processors-and-chipsets/tiger-lake/11th-generation-intel-core-processor-family-specification-update/revision-history/

Ah, the VSOC thing.

Yeah, AMD gave out bad info what the max VSOC was (1.4V), which destroyed IOD insides.
And that was lowered to 1.3V and AMD is replacing affected CPUs very easily even if they still work somewhat.

When MB makers used that max as "we shall use this as default if you set your RAM over 4200MT/s".

When the default VSOC is about 1.05V.

[languid gulch]

there's also the AM3 FX lawsuit about what you're allowed to call a core, but that's completely different from this intel thing going on

my old stock replacment cooler ran my 1700X (105W) just fine, but my 5600X (65W) started to make it scream. turns out that there was only 1 heat pipe that was right over the 5600X die, so i had to get a different cooler. 1700X had a better layout for that cooler that was more spread out under all the heat pipes

[twin dew]

AMD Errata for 7002 Epycs from year ago, cannot find the place to search for them.
www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/processor-tech-docs/revision-guides/56323-PUB_1_01.pdf

For both the "TDP" is just design power for OEM cooler.

Not the actual power usage.

[languid gulch]

ouchie

[twin dew]

For AMD, the actual default power usage max is about 30% over the TDP.
For Intel it is complete crapshoot.

[languid gulch]

assassin 120SE is still amazing for the price, can confirm

if i OC my 5600X it tops out at about 90W

[twin dew]

As Intel has bunch of power limits depending on time etc. and MB makers override those as default regularly.
While the AMD forces their defaults to be defaults.

Ah, remembered wrong.
AMD: 65W TDP is 88W actual max by default, not 84W I used first.

65W TDP, 88W PPT.
105W TDP, 142W PPT.

And so on.

So about 35% difference between TDP and PPT.

The cooler ratings aren't exact.
Cooler that specifies 95W TDP max is pretty crappy one.
Point isn't that it can run the CPU at 100% all the time, just that it can keep the CPU operational without too much throttling.

[languid gulch]

i mean idle at 50C could be a forgotten peel

[twin dew]

Or bad thermal paste situation.

[languid gulch]

that too

[twin dew]

Or just high case internal temperature.

[edgy hazel]

Mhhmmm thermal paste. Yummy 😊

[twin dew]

Even if the paste is good, it might not be in the right place anymore.

[edgy hazel]

no it doesn't

[twin dew]

Easy to check the case internal temperature with room temperature sensor, or some of the MB sensors.

[edgy hazel]

[twin dew]

Big question is: How fast does it drop when the load stops?
If that is fast, the CPU to cooler contact is fine.

As in seconds for 20C drop?

From the max?

[languid gulch]

i upped the case fan RPM and calmed down the CPU cooler's fans to keep mine from doing the constant ramp up/ramp down screaming when it goes under load & then drops off, helped a lot with over all temps but also temp spikes

which model?

right now i mean

[twin dew]

So most probably just too high case internal temperature from lack of case ventilation & fans.

Or just the case fans at too slow speed to keep up with the heat buildup.

Yeah, so case that doesn't have air intake.

[languid gulch]

take the front panel off & see if that helps

[twin dew]

As the glass is way too close to the fans.

[languid gulch]

damn

might be a combo of everything. no circulation, maybe a bit small for the TDP, and then possibly the sticker left on

[twin dew]

The side intake is farther back than the fan fronts, and way too little space between the fan intake and the glass, causing the fans to be very inefficient both from the small gap and convoluted way for air to be pulled from the side intakes.

[twin dew]

Sticker or bad paste would cause the temperature to not drop rapidly once load is off.

[languid gulch]

ah true

do they sell mesh front panel for it?

i have a P400A that had the solid front & got a mesh upgrade for $20 when it came out

[twin dew]

What speed are the fans at in RPM?
And is the case in "free air" or in some restricted location?

Speed for the case fans I mean.

[languid gulch]

i'm wondering if making the front fans into exhaust would help

[twin dew]

Can you see any other temperature sensors in the computer?

[languid gulch]

suck in cool air from the side, blow it out the front & back

since it's a downdraft air cooler

[twin dew]

So yes, just not properly named.
But the MB temps would suggest that the case insides are probably at near 40C.

With that 24.0C reading being from actually non-connected input.

Same for the ACPI giving crap data.

So 50C idle wouldn't be anything weird with that high case inside temp.

Would need to manually probe in right superio chip driver to see the fan speeds, not worth it right now.

[soft bloom]

when is time to panic?

[twin dew]

2-3C lower MB temps, about 1C lower GPU temps.

With slow fans, that kind of change doesn't happen immediately after removing a panel.

Have you done anything to the case fan speeds?
Or running on some MB default fan curve?

Those are some really slow fans at max speed, 800 RPM for the front 200mm, 1000RPM for the back 120mm.
And if they are on MB default curves, you cook the case inside, especially if the curve doesn't use CPU as reference but some MB sensor.

Just need to go to BIOS and tune the case fans to highest fixed speed that isn't too loud.
Yes, needs reboot.

So it is in some cabinet or like too?
Which also gets heated up inside and can easily cause air circulation from the back exhaust back into those side intakes.

Reason for the weird stuff, as otherwise that happened too much.
The shelf is as far forward as possible with gap between the backwall and it.
And then triangle cardboard air guide extending from front of it to rest against the doors once they are nearly closed.
And fans at 5V to move air, as otherwise the inside still got 10+C over the room temp even with just the Intel Atom computer on the left.

16W TDP with passive CPU cooler.

Mainly point was, that in enclosed space, the airflow in/out of the space and heat in there load determines the stable temperature the system will hit. And the amount of volume just determines how long it takes for it to rise that far.

Several of the MB temp sensors down by 3-5C from the initial ones, GPU down by 3C.

Mainly the point was, that if the machine is in closed closet, you need to force the door ajar by little or otherwise the insides will get hot.
No matter how big the internal volume of that closet.
And if the case fans are running at too slow speed, the case insides will heat up even more.
And the CPU coolers work on the temperature difference between the case inside air and the CPU.
Higher case temperature, higher the CPU temperature will be in almost linear fashion.

Ok.

If you can, and try to tune those case fans to run as fast as you can tolerate.

Fans with that low max RPM are usually meant to be run at 100%.

And they are currently probably running at around 50%, which is way less than 50% of the air moving capacity of 100%.

If on MB defaults.

Silent would be even worse than the default, as that sets even lower speed at same temp.

Those interfaces aren't properly documented for open source devs, so there are reading bugs.

As the commands to read them have been reverse engineered, and not implemented from spec.

Not for the CPU, but that isn't being controlled to enough "precision" as both the load and FAN speed will be variable.

But get the case inside temperatures in control by upping the case fans to high enough minimum speed from way too low currently if on MB default.
And then look into the CPU cooler / CPU fan curve.

And I have separate old 19" LCD for bringing to the headless machines when needed

Seems USB HDMI video capture adapters can be gotten as low as $20 or so.

[tough owl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYWtP4tZe30

[midnight osprey]

Is that a shit piece?

Last time I watched one of his videos he was shitting all over Linus Tech Tips

I unsubbed and never seen anything since.

Omg. Auto correct. lol

[edgy hazel]

And rightfully so lmao

[wanton orchid]

ok I found passive pcie switch at $1 per units, I feel better

I now know how the motherboard manufacturers are doing

[edgy hazel]

BTW does anyone know if LTT has changed substantially regarding the factual inaccuracies in their videos?

[twin dew]

Even PCIe MUXes went away only because the one company making inexpensive ones was bought out and the prices raised 10+x by the new owner to just target server market.
Less volume, but much more profit per unit.

But completely priced out of consumer MBs.

And then server CPUs got lot more raw PCIe links from the CPUs, and MUXes aren't as needed there 🤣

[wanton orchid]

I was talking the other day here about how pcie muxes/switches prices are absurd currently

costing more than a freaking cpu

that is completly stupid

[twin dew]

Simple switches aren't.
Active MUXes that can share the bandwidth between multiple downstream devices got absurdly priced after that buyout.

[wanton orchid]

that's what switches are for, you meant simple muxes then

muxes are the simple ones

when 40Gbe is less costly than gen3 4 lane switches man

what's going on

[twin dew]

No, switch is either or. (not ethernet switch, electronics switch).
MUX in this case has ability to share the bandwidth.
Either by time division or some other such hard split, or via more advanced active types in the high-end ones.

And for PCIe, you only have the switches that cannot be changed during runtime, or active MUXes.

As PCIe protocol cannot work with time-division etc. the simple MUXes can do.

[midnight osprey]

I just saw it as shitting on a rival. I don’t watch either. I’m not a fan of such toxic things.

Isn’t Linus channel more about entertainment than facts?

[wanton orchid]

there are 3 type devices
physical switches, the simplest
muxes, active more complex, multiplexers
active bus switches, the most complex, support end-to-end bottleneck free transfers and multicast

[midnight osprey]

Like who checks only one source for a tech review? lol

[wanton orchid]

the later can't be called "multiplexer" anymore

[midnight osprey]

I binge when excited about an expensive purchase.

[twin dew]

Still used for the PCIe ones that do what your active bus switches do.
And then there are the cheap ones that are just set once before the PCIe bus is brought up to decide which slot/device the lane goes this boot.

[wanton orchid]

that's the passive one

[twin dew]

Which are still cheap enough to be used in MBs.
And the others got too expensive because of that buyout during PCIe 3.0 era.

[wanton orchid]

that's the one $1 per unit

[midnight osprey]

I dunno but none are flawless. Don’t they all make mistakes?

Apparently LTT has grown since so surely not that bad.

[edgy hazel]

not in the rate LTT made them

[wanton orchid]

not the same order

[wanton orchid]

dont underestimate marketing

[midnight osprey]

Indeed!

[edgy hazel]

and not in the same audience size

[twin dew]

Ok, the current naming is like you said, PCIe switch or mux for the cheap ones.
IIRC in the old days with MBs it was switch vs. mux with that difference on capabilities.

[midnight osprey]

Was he shilling?

[twin dew]

But that was PC talk, not the real names it seems.

So yes, I was again wrong.

[wanton orchid]

I mean I get it can be confusing

[midnight osprey]

Humility. You should get a job on Gamers Nexus. lol

Add a lil balance.

[wanton orchid]

there are electronics switches (the passive simple one and cheapest)
and informatic communication system switches (switching at the informatic bus buffer and queuing control layer)
multiplexing lie in-between
multiplexing is rooted in electronic hardware, and is effective at the informatic buses layer, but it is still "passive" in regards to the bus layer

[jagged snow]

As far as I know, yes
There have been a few things like incorrect graphs but no major innacuracies that I've heard about

[twin dew]

In general yes.
And because that the middle type cannot be used with PCIe like stuff, as it doesn't support TDM type where it can only talk some of the time.

But mainly thought that the naming was nonstandard in this case for reason or other.

But seems it was Avago/Broadcom who bought the maker of PLX brand PCIe switch chips, raised the prices sky high, and stopped development of new models.

[wanton orchid]

I mean it can support multiplexing, it will simply be active at the control layer of pcie
while still being technically passive at the bus layer

[twin dew]

In 2014.

[jagged snow]

Speaking of ryzen 9000, I think I'll be picking up an x3d chip later this year or early next year

[wanton orchid]

i.e it get bus arbitrating basic capabilities

[jagged snow]

Time for an upgrade

[twin dew]

Changes it to multiple point-to-point links with middle active switch chip with buffering etc.

[wanton orchid]

but I was arguing then it is not multiplexing anymore

I just call it full fledged informatic switch
and it's how manufacturers call it too apparently

[twin dew]

Yeah, and I agreed with that already, and stated why I had wrong idea about the naming used with PCIe specifically.

Which I thought used nonstandard naming.

[jagged snow]

Not sure what I want for gpu though, will have to wait until next gen cards launch and see what I can pick up used

[wanton orchid]

the inbetween is called bridge

it got the network naming scheme

because pcie is basically a network now

[twin dew]

Broadcom still calls those PEX chips that are the highest type as just "PCI Express Switches".

[wanton orchid]

so
passive switch
muxes
bridges
switches

in that order

[twin dew]

And never developed single 4.0 one, only keeps selling the 3.0 chips developed by that PLX Technology before being bought out.

[wanton orchid]

and now switches with cdep/ntb iov capabilities on top

[wanton orchid]

plx links are still in the datasheet too ahah

[twin dew]

Seems the same company was behind the 10GBase-T tech that is/was being sold under Aquantia name.
Sold it to Aquantia Corporation in 2012, which was then later bought out by Avago/Broadcom too.

[wanton orchid]

I dont like broadcom

[twin dew]

No, sorry, Marvell got Aquantia

[twin dew]

Well, the current Broadcom is just renamed holding company that has been buying stuff left and right and then enshittifying the stuff to make quick buck.

[edgy hazel]

guess my 5800x3D will still be good for a while

[jagged snow]

Yeah, I'm thinking 9800x3d

Or maybe 7900 non x3d

I'll need to see some benchmarks for how the x3d chips perform in workloads like cad

[twin dew]

Old Broadcom was somewhat bad, the Avago one is just horrible.

[jagged snow]

I'm very strongly leaning towards new x3d chip

[wanton orchid]

the cache size increase going from 9800 to 9900 must be more sensitive in performance
than from 7800 to 7900, because of the better interconnect performance in 9000 cpus

[jagged snow]

In my case what I'm curious to see is the difference between 9800x3d and 7900

[twin dew]

Better interconnect?
Has something like that been actually confirmed?

Activating the full CCD to IOD write bandwidth for single CCD CPUs, and not just half?

[wanton orchid]

?

x900 akways had 2 ccd

[twin dew]

But you specific 9000 CPUs.

[wanton orchid]

which is having cache each

[twin dew]

That those would have better interconnect performance?
So you just meant #900, not 9000.

[wanton orchid]

some of the cached stuff is in the other ccd

but accessing it have a cost

but the cost is lower in 9000 series

so 9000 series 2 ccd cpus have more effective cache when it comes to single ccd processing

than 7000 series 2 ccd cpus

[jagged snow]

So lower cross-ccd latency?

[wanton orchid]

basically

[twin dew]

Based on what?

[jagged snow]

What changed to make that happen?

[twin dew]

When AFAIK nothing official is out yet.

[wanton orchid]

mainly fabric raw performance increase

which as been officially announced

[twin dew]

Which doesn't really matter, as the problem was latency, not bandwidth.

As going to RAM was about same as going to the other CCD for latency.

[wanton orchid]

it matters because the latency scale with bandwitdh when we are talking prefecthing stuff and cache filling

top priority accesses are closer to each others

[wanton orchid]

it should not though

L1 i, L1 d, L2, L3 (, Lx3d), other ccd L3, RAM
it should be in that order

[edgy hazel]

Is DDR5 worth it BTW? I'm still a DDR4 boi

[wanton orchid]

yes

unless you are running a 6core or less cpu

[edgy hazel]

Does it affect gaming by that much?

[jagged snow]

10-15% on chips that support both(up to)

[edgy hazel]

Cuz my CPU is mostly chilling

[twin dew]

But for the current AM4 and AM5 CPUs, the latency to cache of the other CCD is about 100ns, and that is about same as Auto/JEDEC 6000MT/s RAM in various RAM latency testers.
And tuned you can get the RAM latency to below 60ns.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, lower cross ccd latency would be huge

[wanton orchid]

that is stupid

[twin dew]

Only AMD knows WHY the cross-ccd latency is so high.

[jagged snow]

Every hardware design has its flaws

[wanton orchid]

by that is sitting on a gold mine

both ccd are on the same fabric network

[jagged snow]

This just happens to be one of them
IF they get it way lower it'll make the dual ccd chips way more attractive

[wanton orchid]

memory control must add latency to that

[twin dew]

Also the CCD to IOD bandwidth is half the IOD to CCD bandwidth currently in most of the AMD chiplet CPUs.

[wanton orchid]

fabric -> fabric, should be faster than fabric -> mmc -> ddr

[twin dew]

Two separate point-to-point links, not three point fabric AFAIK.

[wanton orchid]

that's what I said

but iod can loopback

otherwise it would not be fabric -> fabric

but just fabric once

[night girder]

lol, I just got a pop-up on YT: what didn't work today for you? And "not interested not working" is one of the options. YT noticed me struggling with it and send me survey, rofl.

[midnight osprey]

I still have a 3900x. I guess mine is super slow in comparison

Though it’s never been a bottleneck for me so far.

[jagged snow]

That's actually kinda good

[night girder]

Something picked up I was clicking "not interested" exesively and they send my survey. I guess it's good?

But like today, I still got videos about the same freaking subject. It's almost as if it wants to brainwash me and make sure I know about the ear shot.

[midnight osprey]

lol

[twin dew]

But realized I really need to do that NFTables firewall config so I can put the Pi 1 in right place physically...

[night girder]

Or maybe it thinks I am an American.

[edgy hazel]

Guess it's time to "Van Gogh to the polls"

[jagged snow]

Do you watch mostly english speaking channels?

[night girder]

I watch all sorts of stuff. Not sure why YT is doing what it is doing. I am mostly interested in news. But not american politics. I did watch a few videos of Biden speeches lately.

[jagged snow]

Interesting

[night girder]

But I watch history, space stuff, music, anime, gaming videos. All sorts of stuff.

Also, just finished spidereman with AMD FSR 3.1 and it looked good. With decent FPS.

Only thing I couldn't push to the max was Ray Tracing.

Level of Detail, Shadow Quality, Texture Filtering, Reflection Resolution and Geometry Detail are only things not maxed, but one step lower.

[minor pawn]

Is an ssd enclosure more reliable then an external ssd or is it the other way around? Cause i only find conflicting answers when i search online

[night girder]

I don't understand the question. Aren't both different use cases? if you have spare ssd, or your laptop dies, you take out the ssd and put it in an enclosure to get access to your data. An external ssd cannot do this and doesn't give you access to the the SSD itself (normally).

What do you mean with more reliable?

[wanton orchid]

defines what you mean by reliable here

if you mean physically, an external ssd will often be more reliable

if you mean performance wise, an enclosure will often be more reliable

note : "often"
it's a trend, not a rule

it both depends how its done, quality, and use

if you mean repairability, then ofcourse a good enclosure will always be more reliable

if you mean choice probably enclosure is best
but you certainly have greater chances of getting shit in the end

because you can get shit enclosure, shit ssd, or shit compatibility of both

[minor pawn]

Imma look into enclosures then cause i also kinda forgot i have an ssd laying around

[wanton orchid]

at the same performance target, enclosure will probably cost more also

you first have to detail what is your use case, or use cases

the "best" would be having both for different purposes

enclosures live better in a professional or lab setup

so external ssd are better for pocket and traveling use cases

also I dont like the "external ssd" wording, because an ssd in an enclosure, IS an external ssd

maybe you meant "USB ssd" instead

[minor pawn]

Its mostly for putting games on it

[wanton orchid]

then why having it external ?

[minor pawn]

Because my laptop only has one m.2 slot

[dire igloo]

Does that SSD have DRAM?

Because if not, it'll write super slowly in the enclosure

HMB only works over PCIe, not over Bluetooth

[night girder]

Also, check the price. Might be cheaper to get external than enclosure + sdd. Might not be cheaper. Price/quality matters too when choosing i believe.

[dire igloo]

They already own a spare SSD

[dire igloo]

.

[night girder]

👆

But if it's a shit ssd or a dead one... it doesn't help

[minor pawn]

Its a lexar nm710 2tb idk if it has dram cause i can't find anything about it on the site i bought it from

[night girder]

The Lexar NM710 is a solid-state drive in the M.2 2280 form factor, launched in 2023. It is available in capacities ranging from 500 GB to 2 TB. This page reports specifications for the 2 TB variant. With the rest of the system, the Lexar NM710 interfaces using a PCI-Express 4.0 x4 connection. The SSD controller is the MAP1602A Falcon Lite from MaxioTech, a DRAM cache is not available

It does have 32 MB HMB

[minor pawn]

So it will be slow in an enclosure?

[night girder]

don't think it will be slow, maybe not as fast as some externals. Depends on the price.

[minor pawn]

I am looking at the asus rog strix arion

[visual tree]

We just broke electricity consumption record this friday and there was a 5-minute power outage at work today although network equipment is connected to batteries and it was working normally

If temperatures are going to be higher in August, I bet the whole grid will collapse....

[minor pawn]

So best would be to get an external one?

[dire igloo]

Btw
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/htmlview#gid=0

[dire igloo]

It will be quite slow to write to, especially for longer operation.
Reading is perfectly fine for all I know

[dire igloo]

tho HMB doesn't work over USB - besides, 32MB is pretty low. I remember 1GB DRAM per TB of storage.

Are you sure it's not on-controller DRAM plus HMB?

[minor pawn]

I looked further and it says it doesn't have a dram

[night girder]

look at the google docs you posted. Even that states: no DRAM and HMB.

[night girder]

2TB—Sequential read up to 4850MB/s, sequential write up to 4500MB/s¹ (source: www.lexar.com/product/lexar-nm710-m-2-2280-pcie-gen4x4-nvme-ssd/)

[winged valley]

Why it like that? Reminds me of the unity launcher

[night girder]

because I selected settings from the launcher, was too lazy to go ingame.

and harder to take screenshots of the settings ingame since it's a list.

[minor pawn]

So would that mean it will still be good even in an enclosure?

[dire igloo]

I know what it says. I mixed a few different pieces of info.

Thing is: HMB means instead of on-drive DRAM, the controller uses system RAM.
32MB is absolutely nothing in this context, most drives with DRAM have 1GB per TB of storage.
Hence why I questioned what you said.

The doc stating that there isn't dram doesn't mean it comes with zero dram. Imagine a PC without RAM, you still have CPU-cache that technically does that job albeit super limited.

[dire igloo]

Those numbers are

1. Meaningless for everyday operation and
2. Not applicable for usage in a USB enclosure due to the fact that HMB requires a PCIe connection to work

[shrewd smelt]

hey guys i wanna upgrade my gpu for 1.0. i currently have a rx 570/ryzen 5 5600. i was thinking between 3060 and 4060. where i live 4060 is 50 bucks more expensive atm. what would you recommend and why?

[dire igloo]

For reads, absolutely.
For writes, it may take a while

[dire igloo]

Arc A750 or Arc A770

[minor pawn]

So you recommend an external one then?

[dire igloo]

Not really

The expensive part is the storage, not the enclosure

Question is: are YOU fine with write operations taking longer?

[shrewd smelt]

thats way more expensive

[minor pawn]

What does writing do while playing games?

[dire igloo]

Autosave for example

Or just installing them

[dire igloo]

How am I supposed to know?
You never said where you are from

[minor pawn]

But with an external ssd it writes faster?

[dire igloo]

If that external SSD has dram, potentially, yes

If not, no

[night girder]

It's either 64 MB or 32 MB HMB.

Oh, and the Western Digital has 200 MB HMB for some reason. But most seem to be 32/64.

[dire igloo]

Can you provide me with any additional info on that?
Always thought HMB was just same functionality as DRAM but on system RAM

A size that small indicates that it uses it for only the address table

[minor pawn]

So if i want an external ssd with good writing i should look for one with dram?

[night girder]

It improve IO operations. But not at the level of DRAM does it.

[shrewd smelt]

that is why i said i was deciding between rtx 3060 and 4060

[night girder]

www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/10/12/4341

[dire igloo]

Good dram, good controller, good nand flash

[minor pawn]

And how do i know if those last two are good?

[dire igloo]

You just gotta know
Tho this is a decent place to start:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/htmlview#gid=0

[minor pawn]

Okay

[night girder]

It seems HMB stores a partial logical to physical map of the drive in the host available DRAM. It also reduces wear.