off-topic-tech

[twin dew]

Been risk with all the Embracer Group drama going on.

[tough owl]

And other coffee stain published games too?

[languid gulch]

no idea, just being careful

[tough owl]

I feel like they could do something to keep it afloat afterwords no?

[twin dew]

As in closing Coffee Stain Studios.
Not removing the games.

Low chance, but was a chance.

[languid gulch]

given how some companies have chosen to remove games from steam with absolutely no warning & cutting off access, i have 0 trust anymore

[tough owl]

Also yea SF doesn’t have drm so yea you could run it outside of steam hassle free

[twin dew]

That was the point in making a backup in place Steam doesn't touch.

[tough owl]

Man a tracker enabled distribution set of files always seems to win in the end

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/954850/view/4194616096165658295?l=english

Man 4 days before they got axed they posted this

[mental oriole]

Risk, but okay...

[edgy hazel]

Will the discord stay if CS dies?

prolly more a question for the mods tbh

[pure karma]

they would probably close it

[edgy hazel]

well it would be a net positive for humanity, but I'd be still sad

[wanton orchid]

"They are very stable, they are growing, they have strong cash flows, high margins. If you combine them, from a financial metric it makes a lot of sense,"
www.gamesindustry.biz/lars-wingefors-on-why-embracer-is-going-away-and-what-happens-next
if coffee stains close, it would be a lie I believe

[wanton orchid]

^

[twin dew]

Need to remember that Coffee Stain Studios and Coffee Stain Holdings (and upcoming Coffee Stain & Friends) are separate entities.
And AFAIK we don't know about the CSS internals.

And the decisions like this aren't often logical.
Closing CSS probably wouldnt' be logical, but there was always small risk when the Embracer Group cuts were happening.

When the article is talking about Coffee Stain, it is talking about Coffee Stain Publishing (the publishing company) and Coffee Stain Holdings (The umbrella corporation owning the other Coffee Stains)

[pure karma]

i would maby consider learning to code again because i honestly forgot most of it and i msure it could be usefull but i dont know where to even start because i have no idea

[stray badger]

What are your opinions on the b650 livemixer vs b650e pg riptide?

Livemixer seems almost better but is cheaper

[sand saddle]

Both are solid boards

[rustic panther]

Agreed

[sand saddle]

Other than the obvious aesthetical and visible IO differences the riptide has wifi and bluetooth, livemixer has an e-key slot that would allow for a reliable ax200/210 kit.
Livemixer 3rd m.2 is 4x4 and disables pcie3 slot, riptide has 3x2
The B650E literally only means gen5x16 slot, which is quite irrelevant and useless even once GPUs start supporting it.
Take the 4090 for example, it runs perfectly fine on 3x16 or 4x8, next gen won't magically need 4x the pcie bandwidth.

If you're from the US, use the newegg combo builder

[stray badger]

I dont need wifi or bluetooth, i will only have 1 gpu, 2 nvmes and 1 sata ssd, and a 7950x3d. I dont care about looks, livemixer is good?

It has a bagillion usb ports

[tough owl]

You can never have enough usb

[pure karma]

yea once you go down you realise more is allways better i think i cut my usb count in half i had 17 usb a and c slots now i have like 7

[dire igloo]

Yes, perfect for that

[stray badger]

Hooray!

Hopefully the gpu will come with an anti sag bracket

Full list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8g3vGP

[rustic panther]

Nice build, hits all the boxes AFAIK

What are you planning to use the 7950x3D for, if I may ask?

[twin dew]

AFAIK 7950X for work, and the 3D for gaming.

[jagged snow]

Why the gre instead of the 7800xt?

[tough owl]

Gre preforms a bit better no?

Also love the endeavorOS under the OS

[jagged snow]

IIRC slightly
I should've checked prices before I said something, it's a lot less expensive than it used to be

[sand saddle]

If you're in the US: https://www.newegg.com/tools/combo-builder/4188

[tough owl]

flare is iirc

[stray badger]

Nice

[stray badger]

Productivity, mostly code compiles and rendering, but also gaming, but i want x3d for lower power draw (my room gets hot)

[sand saddle]

Don't need more ram?

https://amazon.com/dp/B0CGR4NNPC

[rustic panther]

Yeah, productivity makes sense 👍

[stray badger]

Its already 32gb

Might go for 64gb if prices are right

[sand saddle]

$161 isn't terrible: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/9v6NnQ/teamgroup-t-force-delta-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6000-cl38-memory-ff3d564g6000hc38adc01

[twin dew]

And you really cannot add second set of RAM later with DDR5.
The frequency drop is huge.

So getting 64 or 96GB of RAM is good idea if the money is there and there is any chance it will be needed later.

[jagged snow]

I personally would be strongly inclined to make the jump to 64 gigs in that system

[pure karma]

like how huge 4800mt/s?

[sand saddle]

Yup

[twin dew]

Officially to 3600MT/s on AMD, IIRC same with Intel or even lower.

4800MT/s usually works with AMD AFAIK.

[pure karma]

ok so if i nerver need more ram im defedently just adding 2 more instead of replacing the 2 i have

[narrow folio]

JEDEC specified DDR5-8800 CL62 a few days ago, so maybe this also will result in faster speeds with 4 modules?

[twin dew]

No, as the limit is the CPU IMC, not the RAM.

[narrow folio]

thought so, but looking back at the gains AM5 had since launch I still have hopes for some progress into this regard

[sand saddle]

4 sticks is just pretty stupid, at most you'll get 5200 with manual tuning on amd compared to 2 sticks at 6200-6400.

[narrow folio]

yeah, my 2x16GB 6000 CL40 where planned as temporary solution until better timings at better capacities are available. but so far I don't feel limited by that in any way, so might as well wait a bit longer^^

[sand saddle]

Hynix dies are strong, can easily support higher speeds once we get better IMCs

[dire igloo]

Best practice with DDR5 isn't to buy good timings at xmp but to buy a kit that uses Hynix ICs and then OC them manually

There is no reason to pay extra for 6000 CL30 over a higher CL kit.

• You won't do xmp? You literally won't even use CL30, wasted money.
• You will do xmp but that's it? CL38 usually costs less, has the same ICs and performs the same, cuz subtimings are loose as shit: https://youtu.be/dO0xysQAHhk
• You will tune/OC it manually? At that point you're going beyond CL30 anyway, just find the cheapest kit that is guaranteed Hynix die.

[narrow folio]

true, chip quality may be way better than the specs of the stick are suggesting

[twin dew]

The three hynix DDR5 chips are very even quality from the fab.
Which is somewhat uncommon.

[narrow folio]

sadly my sticks have samsung dies, so I didn't really bother to finetune them

[twin dew]

Which is why that works with them.
But not with most RAM before.

[wanton orchid]

but coffee stains Studios is part of what is talked about when saying cash is flowing
holding can't have cash flow alone

[twin dew]

Even with the legendary Samsung B-die, there was much more chip quality lottery going on.

CSS is just part of the CSH.
And CS Publishing has plenty of outside studios publishing through them, and other in-house studios too.

[wanton orchid]

Anyway beta is on
so it would at least be interesting for them to publish it as is

[twin dew]

Very unlikely that anything would have been happening to CSS.
And even less likely now.

[sand saddle]

@stray badger https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tmLnVW

[pure karma]

yea i learned that the hard way whit 6400mt/s on intel you can throw stability out the window

[sand saddle]

No, smth is just broken for you

14th gen is doing 6800+

[twin dew]

Any Intel 13th or 14th gen CPU IMC should be able to do 7000-7600MT/s on 4-slot board with 1DPC.

[pure karma]

is it doing that whitout causing micro stuters tho?

[sand saddle]

Yes

[sage pier]

Baldur blue is where fiber is available i live in the white 😭 ofc i already have fiber but this site doesnt even count that isp its like the comcast of fiber https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939217430943789137/1234894628084519033/Screenshot_2024-04-30_094443.png?ex=6633b63e&is=663264be&hm=dd100127b74080cb8d7ab43896bac8d10758e0d145fa8873411d78a2b413a8ae&

[pure karma]

so if the ram issent the problem and the cpu likely isent the problem then whats the problem here... the motherboard?

[twin dew]

Or just that your RAM cannot do more.

[sand saddle]

Magic has hynix

Either IMC problem, XMP problem, ram problem or motherboard problem

[twin dew]

But the 16Gb M-die needs voltage based on the frequency.
1.35V is only good to 6000-6600MT/s depending on the luck/binning and latencies set.

[pure karma]

im on the default XMP config which is 6400mhz at 1.45V

[sand saddle]

1.45V?!

Link the ram

[wanton orchid]

would be fun to do a magic problem count

[pure karma]

i believe so

[twin dew]

The extra high frequencies use 1.50V or more on that M-die.
A-die needs less, and same for the 24Gb M-die.

[sand saddle]

Is this some corsair bs? Thought they only did 1.4V

[pure karma]

nah its a 2x16 6400mhz trident z something kit

[sand saddle]

1.4V probably

[pure karma]

it defedently ends whit ._5

if you can find some of the old bios pics i sent its probably listed

[twin dew]

1.35V is the norm for Hynix with 6000-6400MT/s kits AFAIK.

[twin dew]

OK, so wrong impression for me.

[sand saddle]

Should be this kit: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/RXGbt6/gskill-trident-z5-rgb-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-f5-6400j3239g16gx2-tz5rk

[sand saddle]

Oh they're made, just not G.Skill

[pure karma]

yea i believe so but it looks to have been reddesigned because mine is 1.45 in the bios and on the box where as its 1.4v now by what it looks like

[sand saddle]

That's odd, maybe it has multiple XMP profiles?

[pure karma]

dosent just on or off

[twin dew]

Some MB:s add extra VDIMM to what the XMP says to use.

[sand saddle]

That's stupid

It could be just overheating and that's causing the microstutters

Enable XMP, set it to 1.4V

[pure karma]

i brought it down to like 70C full boar and like 50-60 under game load

oh wait you mean ram?

uh its at like 50c i think idk il have to check

[sand saddle]

I'd try 1.4V

1.45V is fucking stupid for 6400

1.35V is perfectly fine for 6400 but ig for the low cl32 they added a bit extra just to be safe

[pure karma]

i was gonna see if i could check the ram temps remotely but i instead played myself and got locked in a administator prompt 😐

ha i found the old bios pic but voltage isn't listed in simple mode

and i dident have xmp even enabled

[mental oriole]

[pure karma]

and when i did it was only at 16.8gb of capacity? ok il check again later because clearly it was confused back then

[stray badger]

CL30 is sweet spot for AMD right?

[sand saddle]

The CL actually doesn't do much for performance

It's mostly used to indicate what die is used

[twin dew]

As low as latencies go is the sweet spot.
Just that CL30/32 is best you can get "ready" made without excessive price.

At that 6000MT/s.

[sand saddle]

And well CL32 and CL30 are identical all things considered

[twin dew]

Pretty much. Rest of the XMP set latencies are more important than CL.

[sand saddle]

And the motherboard set secondaries

Which matter a fair bit

[twin dew]

Yes, but for the latencies set by XMP, CL is one of the least important.

[sand saddle]

Yup

[wanton orchid]

baldur, do you have any tips for looking what chips are used, they are not always described

[sand saddle]

6000: CL38, CL36 <1.3V, CL34 or lower are all hynix

There's also jedec hynix

[wanton orchid]

but same class / line ?

[sand saddle]

You mean M die vs A die?

[wanton orchid]

for instance

[sand saddle]

You need to see the physical packaging to be sure

[wanton orchid]

IIRC I had heard new one was going to market not very recently

imo, ddr5 is only worth the jump at 6400+

[sand saddle]

That's not true

[wanton orchid]

its when it yield always better performance, even in worse cases

[sand saddle]

AMD currently can do only 6200-6400 before the memory controller needs to run 2:1 aka half the mhz of ram

Which only makes sense at like 7800+

[wanton orchid]

I'm talking 1:1

so 6400 in this case

[sand saddle]

Not all of the chips can do that

[wanton orchid]

I'm waiting for 89000 series

[sand saddle]

Fair enough

But DDR5 can yield better results over ddr4 starting at pretty low speeds

Though imo it makes nearly zero sense to get any ddr5 under 5600

[rustic panther]

I mean, the whole DDR4 vs DDR5 discussion is a bit moot, because IIRC buying a new motherboard purely for DDR5 is not worth the money no matter what, right

[pure karma]

at the end of the day the performance difference dosent matter enough between speeds to care as long as its stable

unless your trying to like perfect a benchmark or something it just feels excessive

[edgy hazel]

elon musk had a third child with grimes that he kept secret until the release of his biography. he named it techno mechanicus

i just learned this fact and I hate it

[sand saddle]

Depends on the application/game but it absolutely matters

[dire igloo]

View it differently: you're on a 8700K with some low end DDR4-2400 garbage and want to upgrade.

Let's assume your options are 12600K DDR4 and 12600K DDR5.
You need new RAM and MB anyway, does DDR5 perform better to justify the higher price?

And yes, it does. Depending on usecase, a 13600K can see up to 15% performance improvement if run with DDR5 instead of DDR4

[rustic panther]

Well yes, but that's buying a new CPU

[dire igloo]

The whole DDR4 vs DDR5 discussion revolves around CPUs

[rustic panther]

And IIRC DDR5 isn't much more expensive these days

[dire igloo]

Cuz yeah, when you're on LGA1700 already, buying a whole new mainboard just to have ddr5 is pretty dumb

[rustic panther]

Yeah

[dire igloo]

Still $55-65 vs $85-95
Also, DDR4 boards are cheaper (talking about Lga1700)

[rustic panther]

I mean if you're going for a new cpu why not get DDR5 unless you're doing a budget build

[dire igloo]

Like $20 saved on the MB too (going for good Z690)

[dire igloo]

Exactly that, budget concerns.
Is it worth the price?

Granted, with AM5 it's mandatory and if you're spending money on 13600K or higher, you can afford DDR5.
So it's only really a discussion up until like a 12600K

[rustic panther]

Yeah

My point exactly, but I think the bar to DDR5 isn't that high anymore that it's a true discussion on gaming machines

[dire igloo]

It's $50+ that you could spend on a GPU or CPU upgrade

I'd rather use 12600k ddr4 than 12400f ddr5

Another thing to consider: if you're able to reuse your existing 3200/3600 DDR4 RAM, this price gap grows even larger

[rustic panther]

Yeah

[maiden coyote]

More new, more fast.. more money

[pure karma]

you lose more than you gain and if you dont lose what do you get out of it like 1-3% more cpu performance?

[sand saddle]

Depends on the application

If we take something very memory sensitive:

[twin dew]

In some specific apps on DDR4 just having 2 ranks per channel instead of 1 rank could give 10% performance improvement.

With otherwise exact same settings.

[maiden coyote]

If you're already getting 130fps in a game I'd argue it doesn't matter.

[pure karma]

so at the performance range where you would use ddr5 in most cases that you even use the full capacity or speed your allready in sub 30fps conditions from other factors that 10% becomes kinda useless

[maiden coyote]

That's at 1080p on a 4090, those numbers seem kind of low

[sand saddle]

Raytracing high

[maiden coyote]

And dlss off, but still low. Must be one hell of a game

[sand saddle]

Clearly CPU bound considering the improvements ram is giving it

[pure karma]

the talos principle 2 brought my 4070ti down to a hault whit DLSS on and frame generation on i was still only getting 50fps peaks at 1080P lol

ray tracing on some games has a performance dent that is just not worth it

[maiden coyote]

106 to 140 fps by changing out the memory configuration is wild.. that used to not matter so much

[sand saddle]

It's just a very extreme example of one game with certain settings

But saying that ram speed doesn't affect shit is an ignorant mindset

[maiden coyote]

I get that. It definitely matters, it didn't in 2010 that much

[pure karma]

i mean it does but it also lowers your 1% lows by a crapload or atleast for me it does

[sand saddle]

Ram speed increases 1% lows
You just have a faulty system

[maiden coyote]

But on ddr4 faster memory on am4 would make a 10% jump on cpu bound workloads

And in ddr5 it matters even more.. next time I build a system I'll definitely be looking a lot harder at memory

[pure karma]

then why did i have like 10x better 1% lows on 2933mt/s than on 6400mt/s

[sand saddle]

Cuz 6400 is unstable for you

[pure karma]

well 4800 is still unstable but less

[sand saddle]

You clearly need to return something

[pure karma]

so its not really a thing of speed its a thing of ddr5 as a whole

[maiden coyote]

Is this still the same system, or have you built a new one and have problems with it?

[pure karma]

ok yea aparently its 1.4V

and yea the ram on its own is fine the cpu on its own is fine but they simply cant work together

[sand saddle]

What motherboard?

[twin dew]

And what other BIOS settings changes have you done since last "Use Defaults"?

[pure karma]

fan curves

[sand saddle]

Make sure auto booster, high bandwidth and low latency are disabled instead of auto

[pure karma]

i have everything on auto or default

[sand saddle]

.

[pure karma]

allright i did that

[sand saddle]

Try it

[pure karma]

do i need to mess whit any of the advanced stuff or no?

[sand saddle]

One thing at a time

[pure karma]

feels smoother but i have no way to test because the huge issues where especially visible whti vr

cant really tell a difrence in anything else because nothing else makes enough of a performance dent for it to destabilize

[sand saddle]

Well if you said the 1% lows had a 10x difference couldn't you measure it?
Cuz even if it's not 10x, it should be measurable.

[pure karma]

i use too but it no longer works

[sand saddle]

What doesn't work?

[pure karma]

it dosent have a read anymore for lows

[sand saddle]

https://github.com/GPUOpen-Tools/OCAT/releases

[pure karma]

how do i make it track 1% lows it only tracks framerates

[sand saddle]

Uhhh

[pure karma]

well i can allready tell you its inconsitent in the frame department

[night girder]

ocat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html

[sand saddle]

If you visualize a capture it tells you it

But ig it doesn't actively tell the lows

[night girder]

    Capture statistics Shows overall capture statistics of the loaded captures. Switch between the metrics using the arrows on the top right of the graph. The following metrics can be displayed:
    Missed frames
    Average FPS
    Average frame times
    Average reprojection times (VR only)
    99th-percentile frame times

[pure karma]

this?

[sand saddle]

Yeah, that's when visualizing a capture

The 99th percentile frame times are 1% lows

If it only tells ms, you need calculate it 1000:x ms=1% lows fps

Ig I should've suggested an easier tool or smth

[pure karma]

i broke it

[night girder]

Can't hwinfo show fps?

[sand saddle]

No

[night girder]

Oh, I see people us RTSS + HWInfo (www.guru3d.com/page/rivatuner-rtss-homepage/)

[pure karma]

nervermind i fixed it

[pure karma]

there arent any arrows???

[night girder]

Displays the frame graphs of the loaded captures.

So, I never used the software. But I think you need to first record a capture, probably written to a file. And then after a while stop the recording.

Then you need to load that capture into the Visualization Window. And only then you can see 99 percentile etc.

[pure karma]

thats what the framtime thing is

[tough owl]

man im so glad I have mangohud on linux

[sand saddle]

Click home

[tough owl]

I see hes trying to make graphs to track performance

[sand saddle]

Not really

I suggested too hard of a program to get his 1% lows

[tough owl]

[sand saddle]

MSI afterburner wasn't working for him for some reason

[sharp oasis]

damn.

[night girder]

Yes, I blame you for all this confusion 😂 😉

[sharp oasis]

6700Xt goes like really hard

[pure karma]

i probably dont even have the sensors

[tough owl]

💀

[night girder]

Sensors for 1% fps? You don't need any sensors for that.

[pure karma]

yea

[night girder]

It's calculated.

[tough owl]

HUH

[sharp oasis]

I beat 3070,3070ti now lfg

(stock)

[night girder]

It just records the FPS the whole time, writes it into a file, then does some math on that data to get average etc.

they probably do it like this, with a file, for performance reasons.

So during the recording, OCAT isn't doing any math, just writing to a file.

[tough owl]

does presentMON show 1% lows?

[night girder]

Then when you stop gaming, OCAT will do a little bit of math when you visualize it.

AMD does 😄

[sand saddle]

game.intel.com/us/stories/intel-presentmon/

@pure karma Download that

[tough owl]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/frameview/

https://github.com/GameTechDev/PresentMon/releases/tag/v2.0.0

[sand saddle]

Yeah

[tough owl]

id pull from here

🤫

[night girder]

Anyway, what are we trying to achieve?

[pure karma]

stability

[sand saddle]

Measure the impact of xmp on his performance

[tough owl]

man set everything to defaults and on auto 😭

[night girder]

doesn't mean it's stable

if I put everything on default/auto, my PC crashes.

[tough owl]

works for me ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[night girder]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone

so that's not the best advice to give imo 😉

While it is true, in most cases, you have a stable system. I just want to point out, it's not a 100%.

[tough owl]

imo it should all work just fine with 99.99% stability ootb

[tough owl]

third times the charm 🤣

[night girder]

To be fair, in my case, there is chance CPU is damaged.

[tough owl]

why havent you warrantied it

[night girder]

But if I put FLCK on auto, it's 2000MHz = crash of PC. I put it manually to 1733MHz = stable system.

[night girder]

Because the mobo fried my CPU probably.

And now it's stable, and I got X3D as backup.

[pure karma]

where do i even acess that

[tough owl]

@pure karma download this

[sand saddle]

I'd try the intel thing

[night girder]

I am so happy Baldur helped me figuring it out tbh.

[sand saddle]

He's the goat

[night girder]

They were a amazing help. And our GoldenSoldier here too 😄

[tough owl]

why not just daily the x3d?

[night girder]

Because, Baldur said the CPU will degrade over time untill it dies. And I am curious if that's the case 😂

[tough owl]

the one in the box or the one being used?

[night girder]

and I am afraid that if I put new CPU in, 2000MHz flck, that my system will crash again. Meaning I am back at square 1.

[night girder]

The current one, the one we suspect to be damaged by MOBO settings.

[sand saddle]

Up to date bios should have no problems

[tough owl]

yea

and clear cmos too so it doesnt try to use old settings on a new cpu

[night girder]

I did all off that.

We went through the whole troubleshooting cycle.

[tough owl]

how many months ago?

[night girder]

half a year ago? I think I got this system last year in november or something.

and the last crash is 2 months ago 😄

[sand saddle]

I was talking about the x3d

[night girder]

I am just afraid.

can be that something else is broken in my system 😒

[tough owl]

warranty 🙂

[night girder]

or that my mobo fries the X3D.

https://tenor.com/view/head-in-the-sand-gif-14379968346400111553

👆 That's me.

[tough owl]

dont yall have good warranties across the pond?

[night girder]

Eh, it's still AMD 😉 So, not much EU can do about it

[edgy hazel]

Hoping my linkedin will look look like this too

[tough owl]

of which they gotta abide by local laws no?

[night girder]

But you are right. I should just instlal it. 😄

[tough owl]

goose farmer?

[night girder]

Yeah, but if my MOBO was setting wrong values, AMD is not to blame.

[edgy hazel]

I'd like a little sandwich shop

[night girder]

The biggest thing I learned is, before installing anything, go to BIOS and make sure everything is on auto.

[sand saddle]

If it was due to a faulty agesa, they can be balmed

[night girder]

and that's where I f'd up.

[tough owl]

the cs major pipeline. dev to farmer

[sand saddle]

And you don't need to say shit, you say shit stopped working, you haven't changed anything

[tough owl]

say nothing until they ask for it

[sand saddle]

Basically say that cmos reset 7600 crashes, cmos reset 7800x3d doesn't crash. Since changing the cpu fixes the issue, you should get a replacement.

[night girder]

You think that might work?

[sand saddle]

Yes

[sand saddle]

Restart PC, try again

[edgy hazel]

they will not launch a whole investigation for a 300$ CPU

or how much that costs

[sand saddle]

200

[night girder]

I don't know, I never had to refund hardware with Nvidia/Asus 😉

I have no experience with how it works tbh.

[edgy hazel]

well you gotta go down the pipeline ofc

[sand saddle]

Remember, you're clueless and haven't tinkered with your system

[night girder]

I haven't 😒 Kinda 😛

[sand saddle]

If shit doesn't work by default, it needs a replacement

[night girder]

I guess putting stuff to auto is tinkering 😄

[edgy hazel]

first seller, then use that written conversation and go to AMD/Nvidia whoever it is and from there you prolly do EU stuff

[sand saddle]

Compare it to without xmp

[night girder]

How long was this?

[pure karma]

well the graph is 10 seconds

but i gave it like a few mins to settle

[night girder]

that's a small sample

[pure karma]

well idk how to increase the range

[sand saddle]

You could just use ocat capture over a few minutes and compare the captures

[steel peak]

anyone ever encounter an issue where PC runs fine. but a running windows update makes computer go into weird state, motherboard cpu LED turns on

[night girder]

Do you manage drivers manually? Or let windows do that?

[steel peak]

through windows

[night girder]

and does your screen go to black? (sometimes)?

[steel peak]

no issue when normal operation, this only occurs when trying windows update

[pure karma]

better stability lower framerate

whtiout xmp

[sand saddle]

The 1% lows are literally more than 3x lower

[pure karma]

what do you mean?

56 is not 3x lower than 61

[night girder]

#off-topic-tech message

[sand saddle]

Y'know what, run 3Dmark timespy. Demo is free on steam

[edgy hazel]

that looks more like vsync is on lol. XMP doesn't do this kind of difference in performance does it?

[sand saddle]

It really shouldn't

[night girder]

was thinking the same

[sand saddle]

Looks like he tested different shit

Actually I don't think 3Dmark reports frametimes, does it?

[pure karma]

i think it does

[edgy hazel]

thought XMP was more like 1-5% difference max

not almost 300% increase

[tough owl]

Could be different times in the game

[night girder]

the power of xmp

[sand saddle]

In game benchmarks can also kinda work

[tough owl]

rdr2 has one

GTA has one

[edgy hazel]

increase your performance NOW by 300% with a single BIOS setting

[sand saddle]

Cyberpunk, metro exodus

[pure karma]

am i wasting my time whit timespy then or what?

[sand saddle]

Lmao my satisfactory fov is maxed out so it's kinda hard to make out when my conveyors are straight

[pure karma]

if it dosent mesure lows than is there really a purpose to it

[sand saddle]

Idk, does it?

[pure karma]

well idk i think it might

well clearly i have no framerate readings just at all other than active framerate

so i defedently dont have anything responsible for tracking it

[dire igloo]

Just have them gay, doesn't change anything, does it?

[sand saddle]

It does

[edgy hazel]

uhhh I can't make out when my conveyors are so straight

really ruins the mood

[stray badger]

lmfao

1 cent discount

[languid gulch]

i bought my 5600X when it was $5 cheaper than the 5600

[tough owl]

i bought my 5600 for like 180 bucks

[winged valley]

Look at me I'm doing real board work yay

(I haven't found any info online about this specific symptom set so I'm basically in unknown territory)

[jagged snow]

Oh cool

[winged valley]

So V_3P3_ENET is a power rail for the ethernet controller and nothing else by the looks of the schematic and bv, so the short is definitely inside the IC. I'll replace it and see what happens

[languid gulch]

i feel like a dirty cheater

the remote for my tv died a while ago, & i finally got around to getting a universal one

& then i figured out that i could also code the remote to work with my cable box, which i had expected to be completely hardware locked down

[mental oriole]

Should be illegal.

[edgy hazel]

Another one

Boing dropping their whistleblowers in an unprecedented speed

[twin dew]

Pneumonia, then got MRSA infection in the hospital when being treated...

So possibly COVID, and then the "hospital bacteria" infection on top.

As there was also brain damage and a stroke during medically induced coma for the pneumonia.

[wanton orchid]

imagine going to hospital to get healed and the hospital fuck you up after putting you to coma

[twin dew]

Big problem with MRSA bacteria in US hospitals AFAIK.
And around the world too depending on country.

Almost good enough cleaning and disinfection causing the bacteria to "evolve" to be resistant, and then not enough hand and clothes cleaning between patients etc. by the nurses spreads it.
Also patients who previously got antibiotics, then didn't use all the assigned pills once the symptoms cleared.
And then later return once the now resistant to that antibiotic bacteria has re-outbreak little later.

[wanton orchid]

the joy of concentrated

[twin dew]

Even bigger problem in countries like India where you can buy any sort of antibiotics over the counter with no controls.
Including the newest stuff that in Western countries is limited to combating that sort of multiple antibiotic resistant bacteria.

And then those strains can come to western countries via travellers.

People getting minor virus infections, and going to buy top of the line antibiotics, using for few days and then stopping.
So not helping at all, and training any bacteria they did have on that one...

[languid gulch]

or some fungal infections that respond to antibiotics, but not enough to get knocked out

[rustic panther]

Boeing is very good at dropping stuff lately, so that makes sense

[twin dew]

Lot on this depends if the whistleblower was covid vaccinated or not.

[night girder]

LOL!

"Some Improvements on the Way" - They fired the developers.

[twin dew]

Some time after that news post was made.

[night girder]

a week

[twin dew]

And the devs and the studio worked like nothing was happening until that point.
They had no idea.

[night girder]

It's just cynical

[twin dew]

And the actual closing will only happen in 2 months, in theory...

[night girder]

So...?

[twin dew]

KSP2 is dead, it wasn't dead when that post was made.
Some more work might get released, or might not.

The people making the news post had no idea they were going to be out of work soon, and were acting in good faith.

[night girder]

I was just questioning what point you wanted to make with "And the actual closing will only happen in 2 months, in theory..." or that it's just general information you giving.

[twin dew]

WA labor law, 2 months from the moment that notice was made at earliest.

But I can be wrong, just IIRC from some internet source talking about the specific notice and KSP2.

As in the people need to be paid until then, you don't have to actually have them work.

So in theory the devs should be available until then, but if they actually are expected to work depends on the exec level.

The normal case in US is that the employees lose all access even before they are notified, and security escorts them to pick up their things and out after the notification is made.
Even when they are paid for X weeks after.

[night girder]

Ok... I doubt this make the situation better for the developers who are fired 😒

It's really a weird concept for me to accept. I understand how it works, but it feels so ... filty. They can hire and fire people like it's nothing. As if the people are just resources and not actual human beings.

Fucking sucks for the developers.

[twin dew]

Yes, it sucks.
Less than 2 weeks notice tho.

[twin dew]

Or the EK Texas style "people arrive at work but the building is locked", with no informing at all.

[night girder]

Yeah heard/read of that style

[tough owl]

I think I saw that they’re going to finish the update but after that they’re done

[twin dew]

That is probably the studio plan, no idea if they are allowed to do it or not.

[wanton orchid]

making everyone lose the morning for no reason

[winged valley]

Here's the results of imaging if anyone was curious. This is after connecting to power, not when trying to power it on, the APU has almost no thermal on it which explains the heat. It's also worth noting that it isn't actually as hot as the camera indicates (at least, not by the finger test. The realtek chip with the short gets hotter)

[twin dew]

The colors are not static by default in most thermal cameras, but they autorange to coldest and hottest in the image.

So the white can be less than 0C if that is the hottest in the image.

[winged valley]

These pictures are set to autorange, I should've included the range

[twin dew]

And same if there is just few degrees between the hottest and coldest.

[winged valley]

APU is shiny and the camera is set to semi-matte emissivity so I'm largely ignoring that reading. But the realtek chip is indeed hot and shorted to ground

[twin dew]

Yeah, just pointing why in thermal images without the range markings the colors don't mean anything beside "this is hotter than this".
Doesn't tell the relative or absolute temperature without the range.

[winged valley]

Fair I should've included those

[twin dew]

To others on the channel.

[winged valley]

The range it went to was roughly 26c -> 55-60 C

It was fluctuating because it was losing focus

I'm still working on figuring out what numbers work best to set a static range to

[maiden coyote]

What'd you end up getting a far as a thermal camera?

[winged valley]

Found a used Flir One Pro (second gen I think) for like $130 being sold by a liquidator on eBay

Hell of a deal bc they go for $200-$330

Eventually I want to get a lightning extension cable and put it on a boom arm connected to a tablet

[maiden coyote]

Huh... so I blocked internet to one of my computers and I can't access remote desktop through the vpn.. but locally on the same subnet it works.. so either my traffic rule to block internet blocks all traffic outside of the local subnet, or unifi counts the vpn as internet

Damnit you got a deal

[winged valley]

It came in the OG box and everything

...which I unfortunately destroyed by being impatient

(I am a box's worst enemy)

But the little case is cool

[maiden coyote]

Anyone want to buy a supercomputer, only slight water damage. gsaauctions.gov/auctions/preview/282996

[winged valley]

only been bid up to 120 grand for something that huge

[midnight osprey]

I've just seen a review about the AI in a box, Rabbit R1

It's utter shite. Haha

They claim to have made 800 apps

But none of them have a UI yet. Lmao

Just 4 half working apps. Total waste of money.

[wanton orchid]

if you talk about a vpn coming from the no internet machine, vpn definetly connect through internet so is blocked too

[stray badger]

Made a couple of changes, thoughts? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gnzwbL

[tough owl]

do you need 16 cores? cuz the 7900x3d is 390

[maiden coyote]

It's from the internet, but the device has a local ip

It's blocking me from vpn client -> machine

[twin dew]

What is acting as the VPN server?

[maiden coyote]

The vpn server is on the gateway and the devices on it are on their own subnet

[twin dew]

And the firewall is on the gateway too?

So yes, the VPN traffic usually needs special rules.

[maiden coyote]

So I have .20.xx for vpn clients. And .50.xx for the vlan of the network that the machine is on

Firewall is also hosted on the gateway. It's a udm-pro

I'm thinking it's a ubiquiti feature. If I was to setup something like tailscale hosted inside the vlan I access the most I probably wouldn't have any issues

[stray badger]

The 7900x3d has problems with 6x3d cores vs 7800x3d and 7950x3d

[tough owl]

Ah

Makes sense then

https://youtu.be/G0nl_jaSBZ0 this has to be good

[night girder]

Think Marques also made vid about rabbit R1

[jagged snow]

He did, and it can more or less be summarized as "somehow worse than the humane ai pin in all the ways the pin was good or bad"

[night girder]

watching it as we speak 😊

[jagged snow]

His only real compliment for it was that it's more responsive than the humane pin

[jagged snow]

Oops, didn't mean to spoil

[night girder]

yeah, but that's still slow right? Or atleast to me.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, ridiculously slow
Especially compared to google assitant/siri

[night girder]

And the question he asks isn't that complex 😒

For a moment I thought the rabbit was actually calculating the distance or something 😂

Ooh, this is getting better and better. The video 😂

Why does the rabbit look so ... cheap? Like a gimmick toy of 10 bucks. (It actually costs 199$)

[pure karma]

someone remind me to nerver buy a HDD again next time i go to buy storage

[night girder]

Ok, if you remind me of when you going to buy storage.

[pure karma]

cant even play video in real time 💀

[night girder]

🤨

[sand saddle]

I kinda did: #off-topic-tech message

[pure karma]

its too slow to keep up whit playing mp4 files i have to pause every once in a while and let it catch back up

well i was slightly less woried about it because my old one did like 200MB/s

this one cant do that atleast not for consistent loads

[night girder]

I don't have issues with watching videos on my external drives.

and the drives* are pretty old now so. The videos are .mkv though.

[jagged snow]

That's wildly slow
is the drive heavily fragmented?

Wouldn't surprise me with how slow that response time is

[pure karma]

nope just normal drive single format

it just cant handle video for some reasson

[night girder]

vlc?

[pure karma]

it can write video but cant read video worth a crap

[sand saddle]

Average MagicZ PC usage experience

[night girder]

What kind of PC do you have?

[sand saddle]

Me?

[night girder]

No MagicZ.

They seem to have a lot of issues, might be the PC at this point...

[jagged snow]

💀 not partition
When was the last time you defragmented that disk?

[sand saddle]

The PC is solid

[night girder]

They just bought it.

[sand saddle]

I mean the specs

Unless this is something other than his main PC

[jagged snow]

Ouch

[sand saddle]

Like the explosive laptop

[night girder]

you using usb 3 cable right?

[pure karma]

nah the laptop has a m.2

[pure karma]

a shit one but still a m.2

[night girder]

Oh, it's not even external?

My bad. I though you bought external HD.

[pure karma]

i did i was responding to golden

im talking about my 8Tb HDD being slow

to be fair i was planing on tearing down this system and writing down all the defects last weekend so i guess i could be responsible and do it this weekend

by defects i mean the small stuff that im likely to forget such as the front io usb-c cable

im honestly suprised no one called it out because its been VERY visibly broken for ages now

[mental oriole]

[stray badger]

Thoughts on waiting for rdna4?

[jagged snow]

If ray tracing matters to you, I'd wait

Rumor mill is buzzing about rdna 4 ray tracing performance currently

[maiden coyote]

It's where decent hardware goes to die

Only HDD's that are abysmally bad are SMR drives that aren't used in an environment designed for SMR

[jagged snow]

Yeah, there's especially no reason that it should have better writes than reads

[pure karma]

oh it does have bettter reads but it only does on everything other than what i use it for... video

[tough owl]

env.fail/posts/firewreck-1/ rip firebase configurations

[tough owl]

corporate.walmart.com/news/2023/09/26/walmarts-new-virtual-experience-walmart-discovered-is-inspired-by-the-community

this is wild

[maiden coyote]

hm..

I can't seem to find any am4/am5 motherboards without wifi

pci, nvme, sata > built in wifi

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Pro-B560M-CT-CSM-Commercial-Motherboard/dp/B0979RYQ87 this is about as close to what i want that I've been able to find.

that's a lot of m.2 and pci.

[stray badger]

b650 livemixer or b650e riptide

[midnight osprey]

And still much slower than Siri

[twin dew]

You probably bought a SMR disk, and it is currently internally moving stuff after you filled it.

[pure karma]

for 8 months tho?

[twin dew]

Then it isn't new.

8 months old != just bought.

[pure karma]

i nerver said it was new 🤷‍♂️

[twin dew]

Ok, then Letterdief got this one out of his head?

Seems so.

[edgy hazel]

you could interpret that it's new base on this

[twin dew]

Yes.

But it was just interpretation.

So defrag that disk...
Which will take AGES if it is SMR.

And if it isn't SMR, then you have major issue with your MBs SATA controller settings.

Or the SATA cable.

Because current HDDs can do 100-240MB/s of sequential reads, if there isn't other writes or reads happening to same disk.

Including SMR ones.

[pure karma]

the sata cables likely fine because it writes normal like it still writes up to like 200MB/s

[twin dew]

And sequential reads should be the same as sequential writes.

[pure karma]

it just cant read video properly it just hang and hangs and hangs

[twin dew]

And that can still be the cable.
If the transmitters on the MB are stronger than the ones on the HDD.
So the cable doesn't cause issues for the MB to HDD, but do cause for HDD to MB.

[pure karma]

idk if its a SMR drive or not because i dont even know what SMR means but this will likely answer it

[twin dew]

You left the model out.
But it doesn't list TRIM, so probably not SMR.

But not sure if TRIM would be listed in that.

[pure karma]

this?

[twin dew]

SMR

8TB Barracuda non-Pro is SMR
www.seagate.com/gb/en/products/cmr-smr-list/

And if it doesn't do TRIM for you, then that explains why it is fucked.

[pure karma]

so that would explain it failing horibly to read things until its given time to catch up

[twin dew]

It cannot catch up without TRIM.

[pure karma]

because if i pause a mp4 or mkv file dosent really matter, right away and let it ramp up for like its 15 second crisis then it works just fine after that

[twin dew]

TRIM is listed in the Features for me on SSDs.
And should be listed in same for SMR HDDs that support it.

So you just bought bad HDD.
Not that all HDDs are bad.

And you also have some extra MagicZ only problems too with it again.

[pure karma]

ok yea i tought so after checking the ussage that it shouldent be shitting a brick everytime you try and open something

[twin dew]

HDD:s are horrible with random access.
The usage time going to 100% shows it has hit the limit of that.

Random access usually tops in few MB/s if even that, with any HDD.

Seek time is killer of transfer rate.

[pure karma]

i nerver had any problems whit my old one could capacity and RPM also play a factor in it or just the difrent features the drive suports

[twin dew]

Old was almost certainly CMR.

[pure karma]

well conveniently i have it right here

[twin dew]

Conventional Magnetic Recording vs. Shingled Magnetic Recording
Every track is separate vs. they overlap and need to all be rewritten on any change (in big sections).

DT01ABA###:s are SMR for that line.

[pure karma]

so a smart move would be to perhapse record to the 1tb drive and transfer stuff thats likely gonna sit for a while to the 8Tb one

[twin dew]

Also that higher rotation rate lowers the seek time.

[pure karma]

or get another M.2 but i feel like that would be a waste

of like 200$

i guess it would make sense that as you go up in the capacity ranges that the drives would be built significantly less for active use and instead for just sitting and doing Hard drive things

[twin dew]

Nah, just HDD makers padding their profit.
SMR disks were designed for archive use, with special controllers.

And then HDD makers started to do consumer SMR disks with on-disk controllers because you can get more usable space from same platter area with SMR.
So more disk space for same production cost.

You can still get CMR disks.
Barracuda Pro:s are CMR for example.

[pure karma]

there also like $20K

[twin dew]

Ok, seems Seagate has dropped the Barracuda Pro line.
So would need to go to the NAS drives to get CMR.

[pure karma]

am i crazy or is computer hardware finally starting to go back down in price

i just found the same HDD i got and its like 150$ cheaper now

[twin dew]

About 150e for the one you have, and then 230e for IronWolf 8TB (CMR) or SkyHawk 8TB (CMR).

[pure karma]

thats not half bad right?

i remember i paid like 240cad for it now its on sale for 150cad

[twin dew]

And the WD SMR disks were more expensive than those Seagate CMR disks.

Right now in the shop I checked.

[pure karma]

the Sn850x's went up interestingly

i got 2 last summer for $319.98 now they are $379.99 each

[twin dew]

All SSDs are going up.

As there is FLASH crunch going on.

But anyways: you bought the cheapest 8TB HDD you could find without checking more, and the one you bought doesn't suit most actual consumer usage.

And as it doesn't support TRIM with the firmware you have, it gets fucked over time.

And even OS side defrag will not fix that.

[pure karma]

honestly it gets the job done and thats better than most the things i recieved

[pure karma]

so the drive has it but windows dosent suport it? or the drive just dosent have TRIM?

[twin dew]

As long as you don't try to write more than 256GB (educated guess) on it at a time.

[twin dew]

No idea.
Some of the SMR Barracudas do have TRIM.
So I would expect it to be firmware version issue.

[pure karma]

yea it dosent like that very much

[twin dew]

I mean in one write.
Without the drive being allowed to "idle" between.

[pure karma]

that was one write it was an 1hour of 2.2Gbps writing

it dident stand a dang chance lol

[twin dew]

Because with SMR drives, there is one or two CMR "stripes" as cache.
And then those are moved to the SMR as units once there is time.

As the whole SMR stripe has to be rewritten if even one bit changes.

And the write speed just crashes through the floor once you fill that CMR cache.

[pure karma]

honestly i dont know how i ended up making the fattest 1080P video ever

like how on earth did it even write at 1.4 what is that Gbps?

[twin dew]

Bits vs. Bytes again.

kb vs kB, 8 fold difference.

[pure karma]

yea but isent 1,465,540 kbps 1.465 gigabits per second

[twin dew]

So 179MB/s.

1433 Mb/s.

Or 1.399 Gb/s

Each B (Byte) is 8b (8 bits).
And the conversions between the prefixes are 1024, not 1000.

[pure karma]

so 80MB/s is 640Mb/s then?

[twin dew]

Yes

[pure karma]

if each byte is 8 bits then its just 8X

[twin dew]

In current systems.
Some very legacy ones did have different size bytes and/or words.

[pure karma]

noted

[night girder]

Yeah I mean... like herg said

comes in here with that sentence.

then complains they can't open videos from it 🤷‍♂️

[cinder moon]

I don't know what's happening here but something's clearly not working right.

[twin dew]

Just fragmented HDD it seems (the 100% active time with low throughput).
And with SMR drive (does SSD style LBA reordering) without TRIM, you cannot do much to it.

[cinder moon]

I currently use a SMR drive to store my video library. It's nearly full now so the write speeds are degraded, but the reads are still in the ~200MB/s range.
I can't imagine that all the files are contiguous given how many files have been deleted and written over the past 3 years.

[twin dew]

The one you have probably has TRIM support?

[cinder moon]

Honestly I wouldn't even know how to check. I guess if I find a spec sheet..

[twin dew]

Would need that CrystalDiskInfo or similar.
Just checking if HWiNFO shows it in the full data (probably).

Yes, in the "Main" mode, not Sensors or Summary.

For SATA drives, NVMe doesn't show that kind of listing, as TRIM should be mandatory AFAIK.

[cinder moon]

I think I'll just keep looking then, if the drive's reporting it somewhere.

[twin dew]

If you have HWiNFO, that shows it like I just said.

[cinder moon]

That apparently only supports Windows. (Or DOS?)

[twin dew]

Ah, linux, then easier.

[cinder moon]

I'm looking through the output of hdparm atm.
(I'd grep it but I kinda want to see all of what's reported)

[twin dew]

lsblk -D

[cinder moon]

That didn't seem to provide much of value. The headers:
NAME DISC-ALN DISC-GRAN DISC-MAX DISC-ZERO

[twin dew]

But nothing below?

[cinder moon]

However hdparm -I /dev/sdb included: (where an asterisk indicates support)

* Data Set Management TRIM supported (limit 8 blocks)

[twin dew]

So does support TRIM.
With up to 8 LBAs per TRIM command sent.

Which means OS can tell the drive when file is deleted that the space is actually free.
So the drive can do LBA rearrangement to keep itself in good shape.

Defrag by the drive controller.

[cinder moon]

Fair enough. I'm more curious about what drive the other member had that didn't support this.. (possibly?)

[twin dew]

Specific model of Seagate Barracuda 3.5" in 8TB capacity.

[wanton orchid]

if you are on linux and want info, you can do smartctl -x /dev/<name>

[cinder moon]

Huh. Mine's a 2TB model Seagate Barracuda.
ST2000DM008-2FR102

[twin dew]

Like I said, firmware version issue probably.
As there were mentions that smaller SMR Barracudas supported TRIM on forums.

[cinder moon]

Curious. I'll need to look into this soon then, since I was considering upgrading to an 8TB this year.

[twin dew]

ST8000DM004-2U9188 with Firmware 0001 for MagicZ.

[cinder moon]

Damn. I was looking at a ST800DM004.
I guess I'll have to test its TRIM support and send it back if I don't like what I see.
(Yay for UK laws letting me return stuff :3)

Since I only plan to use it for archival and video purposes, I never really care much about the drives being SMR. It's a good use of the technology.

[wanton orchid]

on archlinux its smartmontools package

[cinder moon]

As it is on Debian and Ubuntu, apparently.
But hdparm worked for what I needed, and I already had it installed.

Oh, now I remember why I came in here.

BBC website, following the council election results. And they have a table... made up of unordered lists.
If only we had a tag for this kind of purpose.. 🤔
(I checked how it looks on mobile and it just behaves like a table)

[jagged snow]

I told him its behavior was charicteristic of a heavily fragmented drive when he initially posted about that issue and he told me "That can't be the issue"

[twin dew]

I did see.

But without TRIM, software side defrag doesn't help much with SMR drive AFAIK.

[jagged snow]

Interesting
Is that something to do with the "reordering" of the shingled bits on the drive?

[twin dew]

Yes.
As the LBAs for the file are supposed to be put one after another on a drive by the defrag.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, that makes sense

[twin dew]

So it can work, if the whole file is rewritten.

Depending what the HDDs own controller does.

[night girder]

Baldur, I just installed Nioh (game) on this system. I had two crashes when I changed my settings from low quality graphics to higher quality.

Does this sound as CPU? 🤔

[twin dew]

Possibly.

The CPU load will be more spiky.

[night girder]

Yes, it's when I go window -> full screen = crash.

Then I tried low graphics -> high graphics = crash.

now I tweaked the graphics outside the game and it works.

I hope that maybe I found a consistent way to provoke the crash.

How come, whenever I install a new game. The PC crashes for a few times. And then the game works like a charm 😒

As if, it's caching or something (during this phase it crashes) but once it cached everything. I get stable system. That's how it feels.

It happened with minecraft too.

[charred pewter]

weird

i could only guess at whats going on in that situation .... thats odd

[night girder]

Yeah, I can't make it crash again 😒

Like, twice a crash in a minute. Install Nioh -> start game -> change settings -> crash. Restart -> start game -> change settings -> crash.

[twin dew]

Again with shader compilation?

And once they are compiled and cached for the specific settings, it works.

[night girder]

Now I am changing settings and no crashes. So freaking weird still 😅

[night girder]

So shader caching = CPU to shit itself? (since CPU might be damaged)

but I just reset the shader caching and it still didn't crash.

[charred pewter]

but you are on AMD right

[twin dew]

Yes.
That is major issue with the current Intel 13th/14th gen thing that UE5 games crash on that as one of the most common symptoms.

As it is bursty high-load task.

[charred pewter]

forgot which game recently i launched for the first time... yet it slammed my cpu (pinned it to the roof) for a solid minute. was like i started up prime95 in torture test

but right, it was only once... doesnt do it each launch

[twin dew]

Shader compilation on first start.

[charred pewter]

blast furnace time 😄

[twin dew]

But easily multithreaded task, where you just put all the shaders into queue and each core works on one of them as fast as it can, in parallel.

[jagged snow]

zen 3 still downclocks for avx512, right?

[wanton orchid]

zen3 have no avx512

[jagged snow]

Are you sure?

I thought zen 2 didn't and zen 3 did

[wanton orchid]

zen3 didnt zen4 did

[jagged snow]

Ah okay

[wanton orchid]

zen5 will improve it

[night girder]

If that's the case then this should have provoked a crash no?

[twin dew]

Depends which shader cache is being used.

[stray badger]

i thought zen 3 did?

[twin dew]

Just AVX2 for Zen 3.

Zen 2 had 128bit AVX units (doing two rounds for 256bit), Zen 3 had 256bit units.
Zen 4 has 256bit AVX units that can do 512 bit in two rounds.

[stray badger]

yeah apparently not, huh

[twin dew]

And Zen 5 is expected to have 512 bit AVX units in the leaks IIRC.

Or might still have just 256 bit units with two round 512 bit in reality, we will see.

[wanton orchid]

it's more like parallel round

2x 256

[stray badger]

avx512 isnt used for that much anyways, and since intel turned it off they don't really have an incentive to make it too much better

[twin dew]

Mainly for EPYCs

[wanton orchid]

1x 512 is not efficient
if you want massive stream of 512 single unit
then you just go on gpu

[twin dew]

As the core is the same, unlike with Intel.

[stray badger]

true

[twin dew]

Intel has AVX512 in various flavors in the Xeons

[wanton orchid]

which is stupid

[stray badger]

would be interesting to see if they make zen 5c have better avx512 than regular zen 5 cores

[twin dew]

But because the Xeons downclock so much for the AVX512 loads, the two round 256 bit Epyc AVX512 often wins on the actual performance :D

[wanton orchid]

the strength of avx512 is interleaving 512 + 256 with mask + classic operation at high speed

[stray badger]

rpcs3 is the only thing i know of that a consumer would use that uses avx512, and they don't even use the 512 part, they just use some neat instructions added

[wanton orchid]

if you put separated 512 pipeline then better use igpu or even gpu

512 op codes are useful for performance in themselves
no need for a separated matching specialized unit for every different operations

it adds useless latencies

[twin dew]

GPUs can only do 64 bit at this time.

[wanton orchid]

are you kidding

[twin dew]

And for anything but the very highest end, you get 1/16 performance vs 32bit.

[wanton orchid]

64 cuda units pipelines are the norm now

that's 512

[twin dew]

This isn't about parallelism.

This is about working with 512 bit integers or floating point numbers.

[wanton orchid]

absolutely not

this is working with multiple float and integer

[twin dew]

Ah, sorry, multiple operations at same time.

[wanton orchid]

there is no such thing as 512 single float

[twin dew]

For total of 512 bit width.
Brain fart.

[wanton orchid]

64 x 64 for gpu that's 4096 bits every 2 cycles

these very huge TFLOPS number does not comes from nowhere

www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/docs/intrinsics-guide/index.html
enjoy
the huge benefit of avx512 also lies in 256 vector size operating modes

multiple years ago I worked on writing a powerful simd C++ lib/header
project stalled
I've been struggling with life since
maybe some day my life will unstuck and it will get alive again

[twin dew]

https://wccftech.com/only-5-out-of-10-core-i9-13900k-2-out-of-10-core-i9-14900k-cpus-stable-in-auto-profile-intel-board-partners-stability-issues/

[wary olive]

Uhh. My pc turns on but doesnt boot up a display wtf 😭 yall got any troubleshooting tips

Checked hdmi. Unplugged it. Plugged back in and everything

Turned off and on

Oop its booting

[wanton orchid]

?, how did you confirm its booting ?

did you check your monitor with hdmi ?

[twin dew]

Somehow I expect this was AM5 system that did full memory training.
As it does at times even with "retain training" option on.

So every so often the boot from start to picture takes minute instead of seconds.

[pure karma]

because all the motherboard check lights would turn off?

[wary olive]

indeed

I just held the power button while it was unplugged. Plugged back in and turned it on 🤷‍♂️

[midnight osprey]

imagine having the time to test hundreds of CPU's

all that heatsink paste would drive me nuts

[tough owl]

Thermal pads

Same consistency across all runs

[sand saddle]

Graphite pad

[night girder]

mullvad.net/en/blog/dns-traffic-can-leak-outside-the-vpn-tunnel-on-android

there might be two vulnerabilities in android OS making the DNS traffic leak.

Identified scenarios where the Android OS can leak DNS traffic:
If a VPN is active without any DNS server configured.
For a short period of time while a VPN app is re-configuring the tunnel or is being force stopped/crashes.

Check the link to find out how to reproduce if your android device is vulnerable.

[wanton orchid]

ah yes the "vulnerability"
same kind of "vulnerability" as in windows dns handling I guess

i.e : spaming dns requests every fucking where it can
every fucking time it can
even if that does not make any fucking network sense (hi windows mfs)

[night girder]

not only spamming

if you read the article

Our app currently does not set any DNS server in its blocking state. When our app fails to set up a tunnel in a way that is not recoverable, it enters the blocking state. In this state it stops traffic from leaving the device. However, it does not set any DNS server in this state, and as a result the above described DNS leaks can happen. We will work around the OS bug by setting a bogus DNS server for now. You can expect a release with this fix soon.

[wanton orchid]

probably fall back then

Anyway I meant :
I learned from windows that you MUST set a bogus dns server at all time otherwise the OS will do shit

[night girder]

Oh, like that. Sorry misunderstood

wonder if Android will acknowledge it.

[stray badger]

Why i am using AMD

[wary olive]

Amd>intel is becoming more and more clear

[tough owl]

google is pretty good at fixing this sorta stuff

[pure karma]

i think another part of these stability is the workloads are constatly shifting between cores whit no real reasson

[tough owl]

You didn’t just say that

It’s so that the hotspot of the cpu isn’t one spot and shuffles around the die to maximize the surface area of dissipation

[jagged snow]

You can't be surprised that he doesn't know what he's talking about at this point can you?

[jagged snow]

If your fastest core manages to stay cool, work will stay on the fastest core(with some professors, not all)

[pure karma]

if 40C isent cool than better whip out the liquid nitrogen

[tough owl]

Man I have at least some faith 😔

[languid gulch]

new emoji we should have for tech stuff

[jagged snow]

Blaine might be on board

[tough owl]

Man why discord gotta add white to it

[dire igloo]

There is only one true steve

[wanton orchid]

maybe because you didn't save it in right format ?

[tough owl]

I just did whatever auto background removal iOS does

[maiden coyote]

I'm going to run cat5 next to power cables. They will not be 6" apart

[jagged snow]

If it's a new run, please do cat 6

You'll thank yourself later

[maiden coyote]

it'll be cat5e

it's what i have. if I had planned it better and didn't already have several boxes of cat5e.. I would've bought and ran cat6 FTP plenum cable

[jagged snow]

Ah, if you have it already then no point in wasting it

I was able to buy a whole spool of shielded cat6 for pretty cheap

[maiden coyote]

the truecable spools are like $450

my runs are short enough ( <75 ft / 22m ) that I might be able to run 2.5gbe if my switch could handle it. Most of my network - all PC's, phones, etc are wireless. the only things that are hardwired are cameras and access points.

and one day when I need faster AP's, if the cable won't handle the speeds.. 2/3 AP's won't be hard to upgrade.. the third is in the garage and I can forget about that one.

[twin dew]

Just tested 10 and 10, so not very large sample, but still some actual numbers.

[pure karma]

yea apparently that broke like 70% of my steam somehow uhh.... or either something else broke but i dont even know

[twin dew]

Have you rebooted the computer?
If that doesn't help, reinstall Steam.

As either the cached version of that file, or the file on disk is corrupt.

[pure karma]

restarting fixes it but it breaks again after i launch a game and close it again

and when it breaks i mean it breaks everything

[twin dew]

Yes? As that is one of the main Steam DLL:s?

Your machine is cursed and I'm not touching the subject anymore.
As your story about what you have done to it changes all the time.

[pure karma]

ahh i think i found the problem windows defender deleted the entire steam folder nervermind

[twin dew]

And I just checked that my Steam was up to date and used Windows Defender with latest detections to scan Steam directory.
Nothing.
So either you have some infection in the system, that had hit the Steam files too, or your computer is broken and corrupting RAM contents.

Also checked if there were any other reports about thing like that in last week. No.

[pure karma]

no nothing else it just flagged and poofed out of existence the steam folder that was in program files

restarted and its back now hmm...

il keep an eye on it

[midnight osprey]

I have never even owned more than 2 working CPU's at a time, lol

not counting laptops

I have no confidence in my soldering skills!

[twin dew]

So the "Windows Defender" part was just you pulling "facts" out of your ass.

And you hadn't actually checked the action log of it.

[maiden coyote]

One day, they'll fix their pc.. or send me theirs and get a new one

[edgy hazel]

"my system just deleted the files" yeah sure becky

[maiden coyote]

It did. I followed a guide to speed up my pc with one simple terminal command. rm -rf /

[sand saddle]

Seriously doubt that

[twin dew]

Well, Steam install directory disappearing for unknown reasons tends to break Steam XD

[sand saddle]

I mean changing ram auto oc settings in bios to disabled

Tf you mean quality unavailable?

[twin dew]

What playback program is that?
Because it doesn't match the in-browser menu.

[night girder]

Just woke up and this is the first thing I read. And I knew immediately whats going on 😂

[night girder]

Bro, all the files in %temp% are gone

[mental oriole]

Oh no

[sand saddle]

IOS youtube

[visual tree]

Hope I can pull this through the conduit without damaging the cable

Well, according to specs, it's "pull-resistant"

[twin dew]

100N, so about same force as holding 10kg up.

[wanton orchid]

so do not pull too much on it

[visual tree]

I should probably remove coax from the conduit, pull the fiber cable and then pull coax through the conduit again

Conduit is kinda small

[midnight osprey]

I love my GPU, it gets toasty which keeps me nice and warm and cosy whilst I game 😛

[wary olive]

Oh!

Thats not great

[pure karma]

oh it is great because you dont need a heater

[languid gulch]

i'm in a place where it breaks 50C outside in the summer, i don't need a heater

[soft bloom]

did ya all notice how idea of centralized digital currency is now labeled as cryptocurrency more and more often?

[maiden coyote]

just protect the end. wrap a plastic bag and tape around it maybe? I don't really have any experience pulling those.

[wanton orchid]

by that definition dollar is cryptocurrency already

[wanton orchid]

did you have other questions about network

[winter path]

Yo how bad is a i3 6th gen on a scale of 1 to 10

[languid gulch]

i still like the idea of tying currency to a unit of energy

[wanton orchid]

does not work that well
because some energy cant be well invested

[languid gulch]

sounds like the capitalist dream of ditching inefficient ways of doing things 😛

i was more thinking about how it'd reduce (or maybe even eliminate) currency manipulation, exporting labor, all the wasted time & resources that go into currency conversion stuff

[wanton orchid]

you are mixing things
if you change the reference, use tricks will change too and adapt to it
the choices of spending money on something or not still is tied to human asking for that money or pushing for that money

[languid gulch]

true, but also that'll always be a thing

[wanton orchid]

exporting labor is not about money reference

or if anything a static reference is exactly what makes it easy to manipulate

[languid gulch]

that's about paying people less money so that the uppers can keep more for themselves

if the charge for labor is the same across borders, then that removes a big incentive for greed

[night girder]

For what?

3rd search hit on duckduckgo: www.quora.com/Is-the-Core-i3-6th-Gen-a-good-processor-for-a-game

[languid gulch]

also 6th gen on its own (already nearly a decade old), vs 6th gen with a dedicated gpu

[wanton orchid]

again, that is not linked to money reference

you may have misconception about what even is a money

[languid gulch]

i'm more thinking about how it would work if the switchover was made

[wanton orchid]

you are not switching over anything
what you are talking about does not work as a money

its like the "everyone income" people thing
if everyone get passive income, no-one is literally spending the money to no one
because no one is getting that money from you
it is literally no money at all

it's a bait basically

[crude vine]

Hello. Guys, can someone help with setting up reverse proxy (NPM may be)?

[winged valley]

Question for you guys, I already asked on the RRG discord but I'm curious what you guys think:

I charge $50/hr for onsite support for both home and office customers, but this is mainly for repairs. I'm thinking about either charging $75/hr for installation jobs (networks and servers, as this includes configuration), or doing a flat labor charge plus the normal $50/hr
Any thoughts on which one makes more sense?

[edgy hazel]

depending. If you plan on doing more small scale stuff, def go with flat and 50/hr. But if you plan on doing bigger things charge more/minute. All depending on how long you usually take

[languid gulch]

be sure to include a "if you're being an asshole to me" surcharge

[winged valley]

Lmao

That's gonna be "travel fee"

"I spent all this gas to come out here to be insulted"

[edgy hazel]

"Consideration on customer suggestion on how I could do it better-fee"

[languid gulch]

also a stupidity charge if all you had to do was flip a switch

[winged valley]

Nah I'd just charge for 1 hour

And try to help with anything else

[edgy hazel]

that's the flat labour charge

[steel thorn]

Doing per hour, add cost onto the first hour then drop down to a more standard per hour rate to account for travel

[winged valley]

So what do $50 + travel for first hour then $50 for the remaining hours?

(Btw I'm new to the business thing, like very very very new. I only know what I saw while working as a technician lmao)

[languid gulch]

i'm not in that industry, so idk what the proper net total should be

[steel thorn]

if its close i add like 10-15 bucks on, if i travel further, more based on distance and time, but all depends on where you live too, as prices change based on area

[languid gulch]

also might not be a bad idea to rate customers themselves & maybe make notes on them that might affect future charges (higher or lower)

[winged valley]

Ah yes the favoritism tax

Pray they never figure it out

[steel thorn]

look up other people in your area to see what their rates are

[winged valley]

I've worked for 3 other places and even $75 is SUPER competetive

Another thing I'm factoring into my pricing is:

1 - I don't have a storefront
2 - I don't have any reputation/name for myself

You put those together and people will already be a little put off. So I'm not really sure how high I can price things

[languid gulch]

without a storefront, the vehicle becomes the visible part of the business

[winged valley]

No money for magnets atm but they are on my list

[languid gulch]

or a wrap in the long term

but also the vehicle itself

showing up in a 1998 civic is gonna have an impact

[winged valley]

Its a silver 2007 VW Passat

Good cosmetic condition, so not a POS but literally nothing special either

If I had the money for it (and some parts inventory) I'd get a ford transit or something similar and make a mobile workship covered in branding

[languid gulch]

good cleaning on the inside, make sure the headlights aren't fogged over

[winged valley]

Yep

[solemn perch]

Create a domain for your work and then use cloudflare to host your website, setup MX records/SPF and forwarding through cloudflare for a domain based email and then let a backend google account send as that email user. total cost? just whatever you decide to have for your domain

[winged valley]

What?

How is that at all relevant to what I said

Also I own a domain, hosting a website through webflow, and have google workspace for email

[solemn perch]

basically for making an impression on larger customers if you ever come into contact but it seems you already have that covered

[wanton orchid]

are you cloudflare contractor ?
you literally just said "use cloudflare if you want to make impression on larger customers" which is not how it works

[solemn perch]

no I'm meaning if he wants to start cheap if he doesn't have much capital to spare, I've known a few people making use of the free services just for PR sake

[visual tree]

Will do. Pulling fiber is tricky compared to other cables because it's extremely fragile

Wish I had optical time-domain reflectometer like all ISP technicians have. They cost thousands of euros though

[twin dew]

The main thing that tells is where the problem is in the length of the fiber.
You can do basic check with just flashlight at one end and by eye at the other.
If there is significant difference before and after installation.

[visual tree]

I could also get visual fault locator for future use anyways. They are relatively cheap

[twin dew]

The expensive ones just determine where there is fault from the time the reflections take to arrive back at the sending end.

And if you cannot cut and reconnect the fiber, you cannot reallyt do much with that information.

To remove the damaged bit.

[visual tree]

Yeah, I would have to sell a kidney in order to afford fusion splicer

That's why buying pre-terminated fiber is an only option for most people

I hate companies promoting mechanical splicing since mechanical splicing almost always guarantees much higher loss

[twin dew]

Well, for the end connections, proper cut, crimp ferrule and polish connector kit should work.
But the non-chinese tool set will cost that 1ke as base, and only work with specific ferrules and connector bodies.

[visual tree]

I think I hugely underestimated how much an OTDR costs lol

Nvm, that model is for the multimode only

[twin dew]

Multimode is what is used in the short runs.

Single-mode is for runs over 200m.

[visual tree]

Here, a lot of contractors make a huge mistake when preparing recently-built apartment buildings for fiber deployment when the ISP technicians arrive

When the technicians arrive, they soon realize the contractors installed multimode fiber instead of singlemode lol

It's usually because contractors want to cut costs and decide to buy multimode fiber which is cheaper without realizing they can't be used by ISP

[twin dew]

The requirements should list the exact type and minimum subtype...

[visual tree]

I think there is a law stating which type of fiber should be used but I guess contractors are clueless....

Or they cut costs and lie to customers their building is "fiber-ready" when in fact it's not

[twin dew]

Yup, the Finnish regulation also mandates one CAT6 or better ethernet cable and four single-mode fiber cables to each apartment from the "split point room"

Since 2023 for new apartment buildings.
Was less before.

The CAT6 is optional if FTTH is implemented too.

No exact fiber spec listed, just how much there can be attenuation at the two common wavelenghts used in three distance categories.

[visual tree]

I pulled CAT6 through all conduits when I was connecting different rooms and cameras outside just to be future-proof

Even though CAT6 might be considered overkill for CCTV by some

[twin dew]

That isn't for inside the apartment cabling.
You have 6 single-mode fibers coming into the apartment building, going to technical room.
And then there is ISP equipment there to split it to the apartments.
And from that room to each apartment there must be 1x CAT6 ethernet and 4x single-mode fiber to in-apartment network cabinet, where you will have the local NAT router and ethernet plug panel to per room outlets.

And that CAT6 ethernet between the building technical room and each apartment is optional, if there is Fiber-to-the-Home level of service, which uses one of the 4 fibers.

And then separate spec for that in-apartment ethernet cabling.

[visual tree]

Yeah, forgot to mention my case is for inside cabling

[twin dew]

I was still talking about the regulation, not your case.

But running lesser spec cable would just been idiotic at this point for your case.

I ran shielded CAT7 for my camera, because that was what I had for the other wiring.

[visual tree]

I probably have some CAT5e cables around but they are only used for connecting network devices. All conduits have CAT6 atm

Also learned that CCA cables are still advertised as "CAT5e" or "CAT6" which is wrong because CCA does not meet the specs of CAT5e or CAT6

*or even higher standard

[twin dew]

Cca is fire protection spec, not ethernet spec.

So you can have Cca fire protection spec cable in any ethernet spec.

Or do you mean Copper Clad Aluminium cable?
Which again can be used in any ethernet spec in theory.

Because the ethernet specs don't specify materials, they specify the performance.

[visual tree]

I mean on Copper Clad Aluminium

[twin dew]

But the there is the question if the cable marketing is truthful or not.

Which goes into the marketer etc.
And if the actual testing report is available and so on.

Of course you can buy chinesium cable that markets itself as CAT8, but doesn't even hit CAT5e.

Or cable that is only tested to CAT5, but actually could hit CAT6 testing requirements etc.

[visual tree]

I didn't even know there is CAT8 👀

[cinder moon]

I don't know enough about physics to know if a superconductive wire would be good or horrendous for signalling.
But I still want it.
If it's a holy grail, can we call it CAT∞?

Also, does the scale go negative like dB?
What is a piece of string? CAT-15?