off-topic-tech

[sage pier]

it says primary dns then a 12 digit number line

[twin dew]

What number?

[sage pier]

primary dns in the web management

[twin dew]

I mean what is the number

[sage pier]

216.165.129.158

[twin dew]

That is completely normal IPv4 address.

Public one.

[sage pier]

huh I've only used the 4 digit dns servers (8.8.8.8/8.4.4.8) ig that is on my pc

[twin dew]

ns7.dns.tds.net

[twin dew]

That is Googles.
The router is using what your ISP told to use.

You can change it in the management.

[sage pier]

oh ok

[twin dew]

The Google and Cloudflare etc. "manual input" DNS server IP:s are selected to be short and easy.

For automatic ones, no such need.

[sage pier]

eh I don't want to mess with it any more than I need

[twin dew]

So that specific one is just one of at least seven DNS servers that TDS Telecom runs.

[sage pier]

when I didn't know what I was doing when I got the router it had to reboot and 2 of the 3 times it didn't actually reboot and I had to manually reboot it is there a way to fix that or is it just because of my router?

[twin dew]

Could you write that again, without it being one line word salad?

[sage pier]

when I didn't know what I was doing when I got the router, it had to reboot and 2 of the 3 times.
It didn't actually reboot and I had to manually reboot it.
Is there a way to fix that or is it just because of my router?

[twin dew]

Why did it need to reboot?
How was the reboot triggered?

[sage pier]

the quick setup thing

to make wan1 and wan2 lan ports

[twin dew]

And if it was fixable, that would have been via firmware update.

[twin dew]

Those were LAN for me by default?
Are you sure you didn't switch them to WAN mode?

But lets see...
Just set that to happen on mine.

[sage pier]

it was wan wan1 and wan2

[twin dew]

Doesn't seem to be even trying to reboot for the actual device.

As Sys is just continuing to blink.

Ok, now it stopped...

When 1/3rd done with the progress bar...

[sage pier]

how are you still typing then?

[twin dew]

Because I'm not using it for the connection.

[sage pier]

ah ok

[twin dew]

Just connected in LAN only mode to second LAN card.

And I have 2 Windows computers running, and could have set laptop too if needed.

[sage pier]

it says only if you select multiple to change it will reboot

for me

[twin dew]

Yeah, switched port 1 from LAN to WAN and saved, and got the device rebooting.

To test, but already on 2.2.4.

2/3rds done, still no Sys blink again.

Full bar, no Sys yet.

So seems to be common problem, not just your unit.
I will wait for some time to see if it restarts by itself, but doesn't do it in allocated time.

Ah, now started flashing.
And browser reconnected.

So might have been the 2.0.0 firmware, might have been just bad luck, etc.

[sage pier]

Yeah one more question if my pc has a ipv6 dns server but all it shows me on the web management is ipv4 is that changeable?

[twin dew]

I will comment once the router has restarted again after switching the Port 1 back to LAN mode.

[sage pier]

ok

[twin dew]

But for me, the IPv6 support in the router was disabled by default.
So check the Network/IPV6 page.

Ah, the quick setup change and the Network/WAN change progress bars are completely different...

[sage pier]

If I enable ipv6 will it reboot my router?

[twin dew]

Didn't when I just did it.

[sage pier]

Should I do it on lan or wan?

[twin dew]

WAN?

LAN is what it passes onwards, WAN is what is gets.

[sage pier]

ok

[sage pier]

now its doing this...

[twin dew]

Because the settings you want in there depend on your ISP?

[sage pier]

so my isp doesn't have ipv6?

[twin dew]

As in the settings needed to be set depend on the ISP.

[sage pier]

ok I'll keep it on ipv4 its not a big deal

[sage pier]

thanks for helping me I'm going to go to bed now its kinda late.

[twin dew]

And TDS Telecom Fiber service didn't have IPv6 support 6 months ago.

[sage pier]

so I'd probably have to update the NAT firmware?
also one more thing before I go since technically the firmware update didn't exactly work and I had to unplug the router is that voiding my warranty? since it says if a firmware update fails it voids warranty.

[twin dew]

That is fear mongering.

It just didn't reboot right.
If it continues to not reboot right on the LAN/WAN port settings changes etc. then I would expect that to be HW fault in your unit.

[sage pier]

ok

[twin dew]

And as the device has that backup recovery function, firmware updates at worst need more time and trash the settings.

When you have to use that.

[sage pier]

ah my bad it says "wrong firmware upgrade may damage your device and void warranty." but still when I updated to 2.2.4 it said it was for v2 even when on the download page it was for v2.6 so i redownloaded it again and still just said v2

[twin dew]

2.0 and 2.6 use same FW.

At least at this time.

If you check, the download links for both are identical.

[sage pier]

ah ok it still doesn't explain why 2.2.3 said for v2.6 and 2.2.4 said just for v2

oh wait nvm I just read it wrong

[twin dew]

static.tp-link.com/upload/firmware/2024/202401/20240124/ER605(UN)_v2_2.2.4%20Build%2020240119.zip

The download link for the US support page HW 2.6 FW 2.2.4

Exact same as for HW 2.0 FW 2.2.4

[sage pier]

ok thanks again for all that you've done for me anyway gn. well ig good morning for you.

[twin dew]

I need to get myself clothed and make some breakfast.

[sterile plinth]

any suggestions for a desk?

[twin dew]

Pretty much impossible to say, as anything except Ikea is very location dependant.

[sterile plinth]

my current one has a really weird non-rectangle shape

that makes it impossible for me to get my chair close to it

so i have to always keep my arms extended which is a bit uncomfortable

if i put the chair sideways too then i have no space

[charred pewter]

what the hell is this

[sterile plinth]

the black thing is the desk

red thign is the chair

[charred pewter]

top down? from the side? cut away?

it looks like a chair bottom slid under a weird thick desk thing

[charred pewter]

or is that the chair back, pushed up against a weird shaped desk top ?

ah

[sterile plinth]

the desk has a weird non-rectangular shape

[charred pewter]

yeah thats an odd desk ... is it just part of a larger desk?

[sterile plinth]

So I have to have my chair very far away from it

Resulting in my mouse being like half a meter away from me so it's a bit uncomfortable

[charred pewter]

the arms are your problem mostly huh ... cant slide under enough to get closer in

[sterile plinth]

You can see the edge in the right

[sterile plinth]

Even if they could slide the left part of the desk would block my body

Not to mention the desk itself is small

[charred pewter]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[sterile plinth]

My mousepad has to go next to my monitor, can't even go in front of it

So yeah I definitely need a new desk

[charred pewter]

your keyboard and mouse dont look that far off though from what i have for my 'work side' ...

i rest my left elbow on my mouse pad for the pc (on the left)

and yes my desk is dirty right now lol 😉

[twin dew]

Because you are supposed to have your monitor at that other point.

[charred pewter]

true, looks like the left side of the desk is for peripherals/papers, while the right side is where a monitor/keyboard/mouse should go..... but, that mouse pad is HUGE so i doubt it fits 😄

[twin dew]

Or more likely it is supposed to be turned little.

The line between monitor and chair that is planned for that.

[charred pewter]

get a new L desk with a good corner spot for the monitor/keyboard/mouse

although those eat a bunch of floor space

[sterile plinth]

the right part of the desk is way too small, as I said

i have my monitor as far left as i can and you can notice the mousepad still doesnt fit in front of it

[twin dew]

I meant you rotate the monitor 25 degrees(?) and then reposition other stuff according to that.
Where the chair moves to right, and turns to left.

[sterile plinth]

then i have no space, 100%

if i put my chair parallel to the angled part of the desk then the monitor has to be way far back

[twin dew]

Or place the chair where the red line hits the board edge, then position keyboard and mousepad etc, then position the monitor.
But you have gigantic mouse pad compared to the desk or the monitor size.

[sterile plinth]

its just a small desk in general, not really the angle issue

[sterile plinth]

its a standard size of 40x45cm

[twin dew]

Which is gigantic in my eyes.

I have 24x29cm mouse pads.

[sterile plinth]

im guessing you dont play many games though

[twin dew]

How so?
I just probably have higher sensitivity than you.

[sterile plinth]

for games like valorant the average sensitivity is 50cm/360

[twin dew]

Depends on player, not game.

[sterile plinth]

nope, on game

tac shooters have low sensitivities

thats just a fact, because there is low mobility

[twin dew]

No, the players playing those often prefer lower sensitivity for easier small aim control.

But it is Meta, not fact.

[sterile plinth]

i guess? meta stands for most effective tactic

but yeah to play effectively

you need low sens, and to use low sens you need a big pad

[charred pewter]

i raise my dpi up real high, then drop the in-game sense setting as low as it goes ... finding the right balance of highest dpi and lowest the game's setting goes ... so i get very fluid aiming control (especially for snipers)

having more mouse pad room helps too

i cant stand settings where just 1 inch of mouse travel makes me spin around 360 ... like holy cow

[twin dew]

Meta is what most people THINK as being the most effective tactic at that point of time.

[charred pewter]

its a word i just dont use 😉 im too old

[twin dew]

Most of the people just copying what someone said.

[charred pewter]

isnt that most of reddit?

[sterile plinth]

forreal

[sterile plinth]

high sensitivity for tac shooters is just not smart. You will never need to track fast moving targets

because there are extremely few abilities that provide mobility

and walking speed is very slow

[edgy hazel]

400 dpi gang

[twin dew]

And I in turn selected the mouse pad size based on the space I had, and then tuned the games so I can comfortably play in that area.

And the base DPI is selected so that I can move the cursor from one edge of first monitor to the opposite edge on the second monitor in Windows without lifting my palm.

[charred pewter]

i mainly hate how just one 'tick' of mouse movement in sniper scope, jerks over like 10 pixels ... so i have to ramp up the dpi to make that actually much more per-pixel movement smoother

10 pixels is a headshot vs a miss in many cases 😄

[edgy hazel]

okay mister global elite

[charred pewter]

lol far from it 😉

i just like smooth control

[edgy hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-drizzy-aubrey-graham-energy-wrist-gif-5496279

[charred pewter]

that video is jerky ...

[twin dew]

I haven't seen single game yet where I don't have single-pixel control?
Even on that 1800 DPI base mouse setting I IIRC have.

[edgy hazel]

mmm jerky

[charred pewter]

im not gonna try to explain it in text... either you see it or you dont.

[twin dew]

No, 1600.

[edgy hazel]

I usually leave the game as is and only adjust my mouse

[twin dew]

Mouse would have 3200 DPI setting too, but that is too fast in Windows.
And 800 is too slow.

[sterile plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imYBTj2RXFs

optimum tech made a video on how dpi affects latency

[edgy hazel]

wrong. I'm a gamer and I'm not switching

[sterile plinth]

i mean yeah i use 800dpi too

[edgy hazel]

so this video is already false

like from the getgo

[twin dew]

There is major split on that.

There is reason for the very high DPI gaming mice options.

[edgy hazel]

that's for the 8k crowd

(and the carpal tunnel syndrome crowd)

[twin dew]

There has been very wide split between the low sensitivity and high sensitivity players.

Some do want to spin around with 1cm of mouse movement, and still retain pixel perfect control if they just can move the mouse in tiny enough movements.

[sharp oasis]

My friends complain my DPI is high (i play warthunder at 2400dpi)

[sage pier]

that is pretty high I only rock 1600

[sharp oasis]

I'm used to it.

I use it day to day

[sage pier]

I used to rock 800 but bc of fortnite and pro's saying "high dpi is better for latency" I switched

[sharp oasis]

I just set mine to 2400 a few years back and haven't changed it sence

[jagged snow]

In theory, higher dpi with lower precision set in software is more precise and can give better performance but to the average person it makes functionally no difference

[round ferry]

I think I use 5600. Not at home to confirm.

[sage pier]

dpi?!?!

[round ferry]

Yes, ultra wide. Would take too much movement to get the cursor to another monitor.

[sage pier]

ah okay that makes sense

[round ferry]

Some games force me to lower dpi or its too difficult to play.

Like Civ.

Mouse goes up to 25,600. Can't imagine using that.

[edgy hazel]

I'd like to use my wrist after I'm 30

so low dpi it is

forces you to use your elbow more

[round ferry]

Touching grass also helps.

I can use my elbow elsewhere. Not sliding my mouse 2 feet to move the cursor to another screen.

[edgy hazel]

your loss

[charred pewter]

lol 2 feet

my work mac is setup so i lift the mouse as little as possible to get around the whole monitor set

you saw how little my mouse pads are 😉 i dont need no stinken 4foot square training pads on my desk 😉

[tough owl]

High dpi ftw

[sharp oasis]

@sage pier switched to 4400dpi for the sake of fun. I like it. Easy to aim for wt

[sage pier]

💀

[round ferry]

Some people are using 49in ultra wide monitors. 34in are even more common, paired with a 2nd or 3rd monitor on the sides. Can't imagine someone like that using a 1200dpi.

I feel like you adjust quickly. But then a low dpi becomes almost impossible to use.

[dire igloo]

you can always adjust cursor sensitivity in Windows

[pure karma]

looks like i cut it lol

[pure karma]

dawg i use 1000dpi

[sharp oasis]

4400 for me is actually nice.

800 is unusable for me

[pure karma]

you have 4x more sensitivity than me

[sharp oasis]

And my aim for warthunder is immaculate

[pure karma]

i could probably use 3200 but yea anything higher.... yea no

[sharp oasis]

I can't use anything less then 3600

[pure karma]

but my mouse can go up to 15,000dpi+ so yea

[sharp oasis]

Else its sluggish

I just have a cheap Logitech G203 lightsync

I've had it for years

Works great

[pure karma]

i have a scoria something that i just bought off the shelf for like 80bucks

[round ferry]

G502 is often cheap too, and a great mouse.

[sharp oasis]

I got my mouse for like $25 at the time of purchase

[round ferry]

I have keys setup to change dpi.

[sharp oasis]

My top button above scrollwheel does it

I haven't changed any settings on my mouse

Other then DPI max

[round ferry]

I only change dpi for some games.

[pure karma]

its fairly well built but its nothing special

[round ferry]

Yeah, dpi max on my mouse is dumb. Would need a massive screen.

[sharp oasis]

I have mine set To 4400 all the time

[pure karma]

yea same why would i ever use 15Kdpi

[round ferry]

I use 5600 I believe.

[sharp oasis]

My freinds are like "how the fuck do you even aim"

I just do

[pure karma]

thats what im wondering

i prefere prescision over sensitivity

[round ferry]

Max on mine is 25,600

[sharp oasis]

Max on mine is 8000

Might try 6200

Imma stay on 6k dpi

[round ferry]

I remember trying 8k and saying no real quick.

[sharp oasis]

I have a tiny bit of overshoot in the leopard but I'll get used to even higher DPI now

[dire igloo]

I got Darmoshark M3 recently, dope mouse

[sand saddle]

Keychron just wasn't it eh?

[dire igloo]

Wanted to see what's up with the hype and it's well deserved.
I like it much more than my Keychron M3

[sand saddle]

My friend bought it, but I haven't bothered him to bring it with him so I could try it.

He fucking loves it tho

Says that mouse was the reason he got back into gaming

[pure karma]

let me guess it costs a pretty penny

[sand saddle]

Under 50 usd

Usually found from ali/amazon

[sand saddle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick

[sand saddle]

It's supposed to be set very high and then in game your setting is very low.
As higher DPI means more accurate readings in theory.

[pure karma]

thats not bad if its really that good

[sand saddle]

It's priced extremely well

[sage pier]

I have the g502 hero and love the buttons

and when I use a mouse lighter than it it feels like its gonna fly away from my hand DX

[winged valley]

I run 2650 dpi on my g502 hero se

Also the g502 is not a brick its perfectly sized and I find it to not be heavy enough without the weights

People have called me a lunatic for running it at "such a low DPI" but I've been doing this for many years with no issues lol

[pure karma]

its a brick

also 2650dpi is still crazy

i use 1000

[sage pier]

I have my sense high enough (1600 dpi) so I don't have to pick it up

[pure karma]

i mean you could just get a mouse thats a half brick or a slab like the apple mouse lol

https://tenor.com/view/modern-problems-require-modern-solutions-dave-chappelle-meme-gif-16273121

[sage pier]

theres no mouse like it though with how many buttons it has. don't even mension the razer naga

[pure karma]

dosent razor have a mouse whit like 16 buttons

that isent a freaking skyscraper

[sage pier]

the razer naga has 12 side buttons or something

[pure karma]

yea that one

i have 7 and thats plenty for me

[sage pier]

what mouse?

[pure karma]

Scoria something

idk i bought it in store i dident care if it was good or not but im not disapointed so i guess i approve

[sharp oasis]

This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen @pure karma

[pure karma]

https://tenor.com/view/if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it-fine-ok-gif-26476025

seems like a good deal just im not sure you would want it XD

[sharp oasis]

I'm buying it as a joke

[pure karma]

ay atleast you can get 3 hdd's out of it

what are they who knows

[sharp oasis]

I'm not gonna get it lmao.

$60 isint even worth the parts and labour I'd need to put into it to get it up to snuff

(Thats a socket 775 mobo it needs to be recapped)

[pure karma]

ehh similar issue here

id love to get the first computer i ever used running again but the odds of it running again (whit the original parts) are about 0.1%

...

assuming the best case scenario that the cpu cooler wasent bashed into the cpu it needs a new psu and to have survied 8 years of corrosion damage

[twin dew]

If just Windows had usable sensitivity adjustment for the desktop...

[jagged snow]

Yup
For that reason I still use 800dpi with windows sensitivity at default

[pure karma]

yea same here 1K whit default

[twin dew]

1600 at Windows 1:1 for me.

To get that suitable movement for the 3840 pixel sideways.

[pure karma]

well you have like 12 monitors so it makes sense to have a higher dpi

at 1440P tho i kinda feel like going up to 1200 just i dont wanna redownload the software for my mouse again

because the next preconfig jump is 3200dpi

[twin dew]

And the software subsettings might be jittery.
As they would probably be interpolated from the max setting and if they aren't clean dividers, then you get issues.

So as the EC1-C uses the PMW 3360 sensor with max DPI of 3200, it then offers 3200, 1600 (1:2), 800 (1:4) and 400 (1:8).
1:3, 1:6 and 1:7 would not be integer and 1:5 would be 640.

[sharp oasis]

me who started using 8000 all the time

(it took me all fo 10 min to get used to again lol)

[twin dew]

For those that don't know, the windows "sensitivity" slider when not at the 1:1 default position (one pixel movement per one "tick" from the mouse", it will either be moving more pixels per tick, or throwing ticks away.
So one setting up from that 1:1 will be in theory 1.5 pixels per tick.
But that actually works by moving one pixel on every other tick and 2 pixels on the other.
And next will always move 2 pixels per tick.
And when going down, first down will be throwing one tick in three (IIRC) away.
And next will throw every second tick away to "get" one pixel moved per every second tick.
But it has memory for those thrown away ticks, so the amount of movement needed for one pixel of movement depends on previous movement, that might have been long time ago.

[sage pier]

do you know why even though speed test shows 940 mbps, when I download a game it goes to 80 mb/s for a couple seconds then it goes down to 20 mb/s?

[twin dew]

MB/s for the download?

[sage pier]

yeah

[twin dew]

I would expect ISP or internet side limitation.

Or did the EERO give better?

[sage pier]

I only got 500 to 600 mbps on the eero router

[twin dew]

For the actual download steady state.

[sage pier]

eh steady 12 mb/s

[twin dew]

So still better even on that.
So ISP/Internet side.

[sage pier]

Is there something I can do about it?

[twin dew]

See what speedtest.net gives in multi and single connection modes first.

If there is difference or not.

This toggle below the big GO button

[sage pier]

multi = 5 ping down 938 mbps 14 ping up 915 mbps single = 3 ms down 731 mbps 4 ms up 692 mbps

still should be getting 90 mb/s

[twin dew]

So not so big difference.
So either the limitation is in general Internet or at the source, or ISP is priorizing the speedtests.

[sage pier]

what does single connection do compared to multi?

[twin dew]

So nothing you can really do.

[sage pier]

ok

[twin dew]

Single uses just one connection to do the speedtesting, like normal downloads.
Multi uses multiple connections in parallel.

Like you would be doing 10 downloads at same time for example.

And getting aggregate.

[sage pier]

ah okay

[twin dew]

You can use the test server selection to see if you can replicate the speed drop.

When not using the suggested test drop, that is probably your ISPs own.

Because I can get the same speed from even going to US server (but limited to 50Mb/s), and not just European ones.
But you might get the drop the moment you go outside your ISPs network.

[sage pier]

it switches from infowest to sumo fiber from time to time

I'm trying multiple servers and some of them are slower but not seeing drops while the speed test is going

[twin dew]

Ok.

But at least in US I have understood that priorising speedtest.net stuff by ISPs is pretty common.

[sage pier]

its funny there is no tds server option available

[twin dew]

Yeah, they have one but it isn't in general pool: speedtest.tds.net/

[pure karma]

im lost but here are the jumps for myn

[sage pier]

it seems on here my upload speed is a little jittery I don't think that would affect the download of my games though

[twin dew]

Not as long as it is at least 10% of the download side.

But throttling connection after X seconds is pretty common traffic shaping thing for bad ISPs.

Or it can just be general internet thing.

[sage pier]

yeah I had really bad problems with this dsl's isp

[twin dew]

As the speeds after exiting your ISPs network aren't really quaranteed.

[sage pier]

like once a week it would be down for a full day

[jagged snow]

Somewhat common, especiallyh with larger isps

[twin dew]

Yeah, just another way to screw the consumers.

To give look that they give great speeds.

Same with that throttling after a specific time.

[sage pier]

actually it says the jitter. 1 ms

[twin dew]

Gives better browsing experience, at expense of longer transfers.

[jagged snow]

It's most common for them to give special priority to speedtest after they throttle you so you can't tell that they're throttling as easy

[twin dew]

That is how much the latency changes during the transfers.
So low jitter means there isn't buffer bloat etc. happening.

[sage pier]

okay

[twin dew]

1ms is excellent.

[sage pier]

anyway gtg good night and good morning to you

[pure karma]

yea myn dosent so atleast i know there honest

but then again im in canada not the us

there bullshiting on there speeds but the ping is good for wifi

[sharp oasis]

Hmm. Canada you say

Thats on the WiFi too

Ethernet is like 600/600

(I'm joking)

[pure karma]

well most the wifi around here tops at 5 dam mbps on ethernet so 25-35 is good

[sharp oasis]

Most I've seen is 712/691

[twin dew]

No, that change is just horrible.
You have major buffer bloat issue happening.

[sharp oasis]

Gig air isint really full gig

[pure karma]

is skynet some sort of internet company?

cuz they have been building some sort of tower for a while

idk if there maby trying to be the first to instal gigabit internet or something

[sharp oasis]

My router isint too bad. Tho this is not a unloaded test

[sharp oasis]

Mcsnet.

[pure karma]

probably can blame that on the wifi card in my pc

[twin dew]

That was to MagicZ

[sharp oasis]

Has full wireless almost gig

[pure karma]

alienware gets like 45-45

[sharp oasis]

I saw, my download ping is a bit latent

[twin dew]

Moment... Switching computer to WiFi.

[sharp oasis]

Hold on lemme hop on my pc as well

[nimble cargo]

Dang your speeds are worse than my Australian speeds. :/

[sage pier]

Why do I need to switch the mac back again?
I'm planning on keeping the eero just in case I want wifi.
Would that work plugging the eero into the er605?

[twin dew]

Should not care, as it allows cloning the computer MAC.

That it has the same MAC for output as device inside.

[sage pier]

ok but why do I need to switch the mac back to the original one that came with the er605?

[twin dew]

Anyways, this was over WiFi on 50/50 limited Internet connection

Usually it is bad router causing the increase.

[pure karma]

bruh i guess my wifi is just a disapointment

[sharp oasis]

mine over ethernet (not an idle network test my dad is streaming the hockey replay rn)

[twin dew]

Same server over the Ethernet.

[pure karma]

prettymuch the same

is your router right next to your pc?

[twin dew]

No, in wooden cabinet on other side of the room.

But it is mostly about the settings.

[sage pier]

not to brag or anything but...

[pure karma]

myn is one floor up directly exactly above

[sharp oasis]

oyeeee making me jealous

[pure karma]

so i almost wonder if the fatc its exactly under is causing issues

because ever since i moved downstairs my ping has been better but my speed half

[twin dew]

Some buffer bloat for the upload, but just tiny bit.
And the TP-Link would have setting to account for that (in WAN, you can set how fast your upload is).

[twin dew]

The normal pattern for WiFi antennas is a donut, with the hole straight up and down, so that is reason for the speed drop.

But the latency and latency change are settings related.

[sage pier]

My router is across the house with a 100 ft cat 5e cable going to an outlet inside the wall going to a 25ft cat 6 cable to my mobo

[sharp oasis]

i have a 15 ft cat 5e cable direct connecting me to the router

[twin dew]

The reason why those speed test upload results are so consistent is that I have by router set to limit the upload usage to little below the actual limit, to not get upload buffer bloat.

[sage pier]

lucky

[pure karma]

oh well i made it a v

its a V2 engine because i decided so

[twin dew]

That helps, and is the recommended way, but the access points antennas also affect it.

And in many you cannot adjust those.

[sage pier]

is it just isp to isp or if when eventually in a couple years when I switch isp's and they use that eero router I copied and I use the tp link router will they both not work because of the cloned mac?

[twin dew]

The non-unique MAC problem only happens if there are two identical MACs in same exact LAN segment.

So same MAC on different ISP will not be a problem.

[sage pier]

so why would I need to change it?

[twin dew]

It was if you were returning the EERO mostly.
And in theory if you ever forget you had cloned the MAC and retained both, and in some point in future connected them in parallel for some reason.

Just because I didn't think the MAC reset to be big thing.

[pure karma]

im sure this cable is safe right?

[sage pier]

💀

[pure karma]

i mean it just uploaded a image of itself so i guess it passes the functioning test

[twin dew]

Until first inner insulator layer around single wire frays too.

[pure karma]

surprised it has lived this far honestly

most lightning cables dont even last until the white layring starts peeling

[sage pier]

So returning the eero would reset the mac filter?

[twin dew]

If you returned the EERO, you would need to reset the MAC.
As the ISP might give the EERO to another customer, and they cannot have same MAC allowed for two customers.

[sage pier]

ah okay so as long as its in the same isp it would cause problems

[twin dew]

Yes.

[sage pier]

okay thanks for your help again

[sage pier]

.

[twin dew]

And as in my mind changing the MAC back on the TP-Link after having the ISP change it in their data would be tiny thing.
But I don't know how many hoops you need to jump through to get the ISP change the allowed MAC at their end.

To remove any chance of future problems, even when chance of those problems is miniscule.

And yes, I could get 1000Mb/s connection, but I'm on 50Mb/s as that is enough for me.
Available options are 10, 50, 100, 200, 500 and 1000Mb/s.

[pure karma]

yea as im running 2 computers i would defedently like atleast 100mbps but you really dont need gigabit unless its a better deal or something

[twin dew]

At 0, 5, 10, 20, 30 and 40e/month.

Why would amount of computers change the need?
Mainly it depends on how many people are streaming/downloading at same time.
And you need 4k streaming to need more than 10Mbps per person.

[pure karma]

really 10mbps is free?????

[twin dew]

In a way, the building pays lump sum that includes that, and usually that is about 5e/month per apartment.
That I then pay in my rent.

[pure karma]

because its splits between both so each is limited to 35 some wacky network stuff i guess

[twin dew]

So in reality all the prices are about 5e/month higher per month, but even if I don't subscribe, I pay that base cost anyways in my rent.

And the exact price is not known to me.

[pure karma]

around here wifi is like 250$ a month

[sage pier]

Sorry for bugging you but one more question i mean it. If i want to use my eero pod will i have to change one of the ports to wan?

On the tp link router

[twin dew]

No, no changes on the TP-Link, you change the EERO to AP only mode from router mode.
And connect it to any of the LAN ports on the TP-link.

[sage pier]

Oof

[sage pier]

Ok

[pure karma]

the cheaper stuff is just outright scamming lol

[twin dew]

Because Finland actually has regulations, and competition.

[pure karma]

yea not surprised by that

[twin dew]

1000/30? XD
All those I listed are symmetrical...

[pure karma]

yea thats some US ass wifi lol

most wifi in the us is like 1000/50

[sage pier]

Oof its like 75 for 1gbps fiber in the us i heard florida has 10gbps fiber for 80/mp

10gbps home fiber

[pure karma]

from a reliable provider whit a equal download/upload your looking at a 1$/mb ratio

[twin dew]

Also no usage limits.

[pure karma]

yea that nice atleast

[twin dew]

Even on cellular inside the country.

[pure karma]

i have got that up to 700 before lol

[sage pier]

👀

[pure karma]

firefox is rough on data man

[tough owl]

I uh downloaded 600gb worth of games, twice from steam over the past 15 days

[pure karma]

yea my wifi isent good enough for that kind of torture but im sure i could download terabytes of data in days

[tough owl]

I have symmetrical gig with no data cap

[pure karma]

i dont 🥲

game updates professionally done slow

tolerable speed but id rather not spend 8 hours downloading every game i want to play

atleast its not the 2 weeks per game the 2016 alienware r6 gets because its on 5mbps copper ethernet

i dont miss downloading stuff on that thing

gaming on it was great downloading was a pain

[dire igloo]

The only thing the Keychron M3 has over the Darmoshark M3 is the textured side - tho both have their validity and it's easy to get used to either

[night girder]

Did AMD lose the HDMI battle?

[edgy hazel]

Okay printing fidgeting things is what 3d printers are made for

[mental oriole]

[wanton orchid]

its only split between both if both are using it maximum

[winged valley]

Look at you showing off your external emotes

[mental oriole]

[winged valley]

what even is the pioneer role

[twin dew]

Lost the open source battle.
So only the AMD Linux Open Source driver cannot support HDMI 2.1.
As the spec is closed, and the open source driver would show enough of the spec so HDMI forum didn't allow for it.

Someone not from AMD can still implement it, if they can reverse engineer the needed things.
Just that AMD as official licensee cannot do it.

[low scaffold]

@twin dew Your link has been removed. In order to combat spam, only whitelisted links are allowed on this server. If you think this link should be whitelisted, please let a moderator know.

[twin dew]

Apple hit with $2 bln EU antitrust fine in Spotify case, will appeal:
www.reuters.com/technology/apple-hit-with-over-18-bln-euro-eu-antitrust-fine-spotify-case-2024-03-04/

It comprised a basic element of 40 million euros - described by European Competition Commissioner Margarethe Vestager as a "parking ticket" for the U.S. tech giant - plus 1.8 billion euros slapped on top as a deterrent. The 1.84 billion euros total is equal to 0.5% of Apple's global turnover, she said.

[jagged snow]

How short are the runs?

[tough owl]

oof

shouldve spent an extra $10 a roll and done 6a

[jagged snow]

You might be able to do 5GBASE-T over that distance

[sage pier]

I have cat 5e in the wall and it works fine

[jagged snow]

Yes, but it's only specced to 1gbps

[tough owl]

may work fine but if you wanna go faster than a gigabit it wont be

[jagged snow]

Like I said, 5gbps might be doable over 30m

[sage pier]

who needs faster than 1 gigabit?

[tough owl]

💀

[jagged snow]

Anyone doing file transfers over lan

[tough owl]

at that point maybe but 6a isnt that much more expensive for a roll 😭

[jagged snow]

Yup, I went for 6a when I did a few drops

[tough owl]

and after 6a just run a fiber cable

[jagged snow]

7/8 havea their uses

It's still cheaper to run cat8 than fiber over 10m

[tough owl]

meh those cables are thick iirc

and for longevity a fiber line should do as fast as the transceivers on either end can push, no?

[jagged snow]

Not really

The speed of fiber is limited by the size of the core

For example, the cheapest mmf is limited to 1gbps over anything above 30m

[tough owl]

ah I see

[jagged snow]

If you want to know more, look up phase shift

[tough owl]

makes sense, I remember on of my teachers saying he knew someone in like the early 2010s wired up his house to have a fiber drop everywhere, date could be wrong but before fiber was cool he did it 🤣

[jagged snow]

I'm considering doing fiber when I move into my new place a few months from now\

Might just go with 6a because I still have 3/4 of a spool

[tough owl]

why not both

[jagged snow]

Definitely not both
But I could wire it up with smf and hit 100gbps on lan

[tough owl]

sounds like a good idea to me

[jagged snow]

I'm leaning towards not

Honestly 10gbps with 6a is pretty futureproof

[tough owl]

proper 100gig nics can't be that much more

[jagged snow]

Yeah but a 10gig nic is under 50 bucks

[tough owl]

thats true

and plus i dont think you have a disk that can do 100gig either

let alone two to transfer files between

[jagged snow]

Two gen4 drives in raid 0 still wont't approach 100gig, so no

[tough owl]

i'm kinda getting the idea to buy an ipod and do a bt and microsd card mod to it

[jagged snow]

I can get a dual 10gig card for 70 bucks

I definitely feel like that's the sweet spot

[tough owl]

yea with most mobos having 2.5gig now 10gig for "enthusiast" isnt bad

[jagged snow]

My mobo is still gbit

So even though I have 6a in the wall capped to that until I buy a nic

[tough owl]

my itx mobo has 2.5

and it can take ecc ram thats cool

[jagged snow]

Yup

[tough owl]

or you could do this

[jagged snow]

I though that was what he meant

[tough owl]

Oh

the box?

[jagged snow]

No

Just more work

[tough owl]

my "nas" only has a single gigabit connection to it so buying anything faster is kinda a waste

[maiden coyote]

Those work but you're better off with connectors.

[twin dew]

There is just two core sizes for MMF at this time.
And then two speed grades under either.

[tough owl]

new thinkpad t14 model that got a 9/10 on ifixits reparability scale

[jagged snow]

Yup, I'm aware. 62.5 is just so cheap it's kinda pointless to not just buy 50

[twin dew]

Yeah, OM3 is about same price as the OM1 and OM2, OM4 is little more expensive IIRC but can do 100Gbit/s to 125m.

Ok, even OM3 can do 100Gbit/s to 100m.

[tough owl]

i see so many people saving stuff to their desktop and it pains me

my entire family is just like yea lets put it on the desktop

[jagged snow]

That hurts me

My desktop has short uts and one singular folder

[tough owl]

Mine has nothing

[sharp oasis]

I have empty desktop

[edgy hazel]

Same. Wallpaper too nice to obstruct

[tough owl]

Yup

[sharp oasis]

I have a crappy ultrakill wallpaper

[edgy hazel]

I use an album cover lmao

[charred pewter]

my mac... nothing on desktop but what apple forces on it (mounted shit) ... pc, ive got alot of my steam installed games on desktop cause i dont like launching shit from steams stupid UI

[tough owl]

https://fixupx.com/oatmealdome/status/1764704580724576465

[charred pewter]

who is yuzu ?

[edgy hazel]

someone who's not gonna be living in the US soon

[dire igloo]

Would've guessed dev company behind Palworld

[charred pewter]

i didnt think nitendorks was suing palworld guys

[edgy hazel]

switch emulator

[night girder]

Palworld is safe.

People forget the pokemon era. There was so many copy pastes. And they never got sued.

[charred pewter]

oh right, the switchin emulator where they said its stealing millions

[edgy hazel]

Palword is not infringing on anything that nintendo owns

[night girder]

Remember digimon?

[dire igloo]

yeah, they are

[night girder]

I mean... pokeMON ... digiMON

[dire igloo]

both are Japanese, Nintendo would've sued already if they knew they had a case

[charred pewter]

morON ...

[edgy hazel]

but yeah fuck nintendo

[charred pewter]

oh wait, thats different

[night girder]

you mean morMON

[dire igloo]

Pokemon but for Utah

[charred pewter]

oh dear lol

[night girder]

Now you mention it Herg.

Why is Apple being attacked from everywhere for not playing along with other big tech and companies?

And meanwhile Nintentdo is siting on it's monopoly island looking at it and laughing.

Maybe they should start looking into Nintendo too. Don't think they are totally fair either.

And Disney. 😒

[dire igloo]

Apple doesn't make any beloved video game franchise

[night girder]

I need to stop thinking. the more I think about the recent Apple stories, the less it makes sense.

Everyone is trying to sue Apple suddenly, but they all used Apple to get big first.

And now they are big and they don't need someone to hold their hands, they start to sue 😒

[edgy hazel]

no developer is developing for a nintendo console and then complaining after the fact, there are way too many alternative devices (iPhones for example). Nintendo only hurts consumers and those are not the types of guys to regularly sue giant companies

[night girder]

Or... there is a Anti Apple wave and everyone is riding it to cash in and to weaken Apple.

Ah well, let them tear eachother apart, I don't care about big tech companies.

The same with that HDMI forum. I read a bit into it, and that's some shady stuff.

[edgy hazel]

apple is just a monopoly

[night girder]

So is everyone on that list.

[charred pewter]

lulz Meta ... that graph is gotta be fake

[night girder]

Microsoft, Google, Nvidia, Amazon, Meta,

[edgy hazel]

yeah and all of them are getting sued all the time

[night girder]

Only one I don't know is berkshire hathaway, that an airport?

[charred pewter]

Saudi Aramco? ...

they make boxed lunches

[edgy hazel]

it's a holding company

[night girder]

Ah, that's Heathrow

[charred pewter]

i have 100 apple shares from when it was $15 a share

[night girder]

I want to know who the stakeholders are in the HDMI forum.

These are the people from the HDMI forum.

[edgy hazel]

it's not an "apple hate wave". The top companies have always been in the scope

[night girder]

😂

[night girder]

Eh ... did I say hate wave?

But besides that, I understand you. But lately I keep reading a lot of anti Apple stories.

And I barely read anything about Microsoft for example.

They get away with everything.

[edgy hazel]

because like half the population got an iPhone and it brings clicks

[dire igloo]

you may not have said "hate wave" but you came damn close

[night girder]

Whole world uses Microsoft. 50% doesn't even know it.

[night girder]

Oh is that so? How is "Anti Apple wave" = hate wave? Being anti doesn't mean hate. One is more neutral (being anti) and hating is an emotion.

[edgy hazel]

who would give a shit about Berkshire Hathaway getting sued

[edgy hazel]

I wouldn't be able to tell you. You edited your message 😉

[night girder]

I didn't remove hate 😉

[edgy hazel]

prove it 😉

[night girder]

Sjiiiiiit

[edgy hazel]

I'd like to remove that message from evidence your honor, since it has been clearly tampered with.

[night girder]

Netflix stopped apple payment a few days ago I think? EU is fining* apple now. America consumers have a lawsuit against iCloud.

And this is all recent news.

[edgy hazel]

yeah maybe apple should stop behaving like a dick then

[tough owl]

EU is suing apple for claiming to be a barrier in digital music in the EU

spotify has majority marketshare

[night girder]

and the news EU wanted to investigate that web app stuff Apple was trying to pull off.

no web apps in the EU. And EU got pissed. And now Apple said there will be web apps in EU? 😒

[edgy hazel]

btw I love how they are all "USA"

while having their headquaters in ireland

[night girder]

I heard Ireland is ideal for tax "evasion*" or something.

[edgy hazel]

yeah

[night girder]

Hence they all have their headquarters there. It's cheaper than EU.

All I want is justice. I don't mind Apple getting a slap on the hand. But ... there are so many companies who deserve that imo 😄

LOOK

These people ... decided that AMD can't have their driver for HDMI 2.1.

Fucking Nvidia is on the board. How is this fair 😢

hdmiforum.org/about/hdmi-forum-board-directors/

none of AMD is on the board rofl

[tough owl]

HDMI and USB forum members are on black tar heroin when it comes time to make decisions

[night girder]

never heard about black tar heroin, but that doesn't sound good.

this is shady af...

[jagged snow]

I honestly think that they might Streisand themselves by doing this

[night girder]

I read that the board is afraid of video ripping with a open source driver.

Let me see if I can find the source in English.

[jagged snow]

Not really the concern
They're afraid of people being able to reverse-engineer the 2.1 standard

They've allowed this with every other standard up to this point

hdcp has already been cracked, and only really serves as a deterrent at this point

[night girder]

you need to reverse engineer to be able to rip no?

so aren't we kinda saying the same thing 😒

[jagged snow]

Nope

Well sorta

[edgy hazel]

Would be a shame if people sent complains

[jagged snow]

Maybe? The point is that there isn't really a piracy concern for them as much as there's just a concern over protecting their revenue

[night girder]

"We don't want people to pirate"

[jagged snow]

Because HDMI is one of the most expensive connectors to license, only being beat by lightning and maybe a few others

[night girder]

It's 100% plausible that they use the anti-piracy argument in public, full knowing there are x other ways we can find to rip movies 😄

[jagged snow]

But the implementation that amd provided still obscured the protected parts of the protocol
As far as I can tell, this was a move made just because they wanted to throw their weight around

[night girder]

and because Nvidia is on the board.

This is corpo strategies.

And Microsoft has benefits with keeping Linux down too.

[edgy hazel]

why is the EU site so fucking messy

[night girder]

amazing right?

[edgy hazel]

I just wanna send them a complaint

I am a concerned citizen of the EU who is directly being affected by this

[night girder]

Affected by?

[edgy hazel]

the HDMI people being dipshits

[night girder]

it's just not funt o read the thread either 😒

SkyShowtime just added in their TOS that add blockers are forbidden 😒

[edgy hazel]

oh no now what? They're gonna cancel your account? Force you to watch somewhere else? Entshittification is coming

[night girder]

No. So they have a new subscription with adds. Next month the normal subscription will be 2 dollars more expensive.

[edgy hazel]

Companies are abusing their users too much lmao

[tough owl]

I pay .99 to hulu for their ad plan and watch it in a browser with an adblocker 😎

[night girder]

So normal goes from n 6,99 -> 8,99 euro, then you can get adds subscription for 6.99 I think. And they don't want people to go for cheaper subscription and then use addblocker.

I feel bad for Netflix, they were able to change the tiding of piracy and now greed is ruining it all.

[edgy hazel]

even my sister, who is the most generic consumer, is back to those illegal websites because netflix blocked her from using the family account in her home

[night girder]

All these stream platforms wasted shitton of money on garbage shows. And now they get greedy.

[tough owl]

does her isp not care?

[edgy hazel]

downloading pirated content is not illegal in germany

[tough owl]

variety.com/2024/digital/news/netflix-price-increase-2024-analyst-1235923872/

[tough owl]

distributing is?

[edgy hazel]

^

[pure karma]

i mean is it really illegal if no one knows

[tough owl]

💀

[night girder]

It feels like they do that every year 😄

[edgy hazel]

no it's straight up not illegal

[tough owl]

new year new price bump

[tough owl]

vpn to germany time

[night girder]

Well, I already canceled my amazon prime.

[white kraken]

Owning pirated content is illegal in Germany, thats why there have been already some cases that the cached content of a stream is considering as owning the pirated video.

[night girder]

I always wonder, if you are a cop, who do you go for?

The "dealer" or the "user"?

[tough owl]

distributers

[pure karma]

69 cents at auction

[white kraken]

The law enforcement might not actively search for owners and concentrate on the people distributing it.

[night girder]

Dealer = who spreads in large amount. User = I download one movie in a year.

Yeah, so in that regard, it seems like a losing battle for the goverment.

They were so happy when they shut down the yaryarbay, but it got back up in what? A month?

[pure karma]

yea it would be a absolute waste of time to hunt people that pirate stuff

[night girder]

And not just one copy of the bay, multiple copies of the bay are up on the internet now 😂

[pure karma]

i think unless there ussing it to cause some sort of damage who cares

[night girder]

Also, have you heard of seedboxes?

[tough owl]

also for the record mods I do not support piracy

[tough owl]

yea, theyre pretty cool

[night girder]

A lot of distributors don't use their own PC even. They use a seedbox (just a server you pay for to a company), and this gives them a little bit of protection.

[edgy hazel]

while that is true, it is nothing the police would be able to search for without investigating another crime you're commiting

[tough owl]

there are "companies" where you can just rent a server with high bandwidth and large storage pools for relatively cheap

[pure karma]

stares into folder whit like 30 pirated games sweating

[night girder]

And these companies sometimes promise to never "rat you out"...

because of privacy. But depending on which country you rent a seedbox, you might be fine.

[edgy hazel]

"this person might be storing pirated content" is not something that a judge can use to issue a warrant

[night girder]

Also, you don't know who owns the seedbox.

[tough owl]

which I don't believe in the slightest

[edgy hazel]

seeding is illegal

[night girder]

You first have to get a warrant, that the company tells the law, who owns that seedbox.

[tough owl]

(use an alias)

[night girder]

I am talking about the distributors. How they get away with it over and over again.

And why I think, this is a losing battle. That's why Netflix was so good.

Netflix was able to do some serious damage to piracy in a lawful, smart way.

[edgy hazel]

because the files are not stored on a centralised server. That's the whole point of torrenting

[tough owl]

and what if you want most of the steaming services its like $50 a month?

where cable tv is cheaper for more?

[night girder]

cable is cheaper yes, at least here.

[tough owl]

and now can be accessed over the web anywhere you are

just not on the cable box at home

[night girder]

a lot of cable tv companies indeed also stream now and went digital.

I mean, if hollywood and everyone involved in the indrustry want consumers to pay for movies and tv-shows, they also have to realize, they have to be careful with how thightly they squeeze the consumers for every penny.

[tough owl]

also a lot of phone companies will now bundle in hulu and disney+ and stuff like that for a cheaper rate than doing it solo/or free

at least in the US of A

oh also on yuzu and emulation

https://fixupx.com/oatmealdome/status/1764715696250843321

[night girder]

Oh, and remember in the beginning? Netflix: "Share with your friends, the more the better, spread the word" ... 5 years later... "Pay up motherfuckers if you share with friends" 😂 🤣

All good things come to an end.

[tough owl]

the cycle continues

mods I dont support piracy

[night girder]

Crunchyroll isn't even available in my country 😦

[tough owl]

its not?

[night girder]

Every year I look if I can get a subscription.

[tough owl]

how do people watch anime in your country

[white kraken]

The pure statement will most likely not get you in trouble, but some proof does.
There have been cases where some „scam attorneys“ hosted pirated content themself as onwer of the content (so for them it was legal) and sued the users who streamed the content.
Those scam tactics are of course also illegal, and those cases got dropped, but that does not mean that downloading pirated content is „not illegal“ 🙂

[night girder]

Netflix has a few. And other means ...

[tough owl]

[white kraken]

And by the way: You can survive without the need of watching netflix content 😉

[tough owl]

not arguing that

[sage pier]

Its not a good idea to download piracy bc I had a friend who's isp contacted them bc of it

[night girder]

What else am I going to watch? Youtube? 😒

The old movies (pre-netflix) that are on Netflix are pretty solid imo.

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/vpn-compete-worst-website-nord-vpn-gif-26207656

[night girder]

and I like Netflix to discover stuff. You can try a episode and move on.

You cannot do that with cable TV.

[sage pier]

||but if I were to pirate a movie I would use a website or a vpn so my isp can't track it||

[edgy hazel]

downloading itself is not illegal, and any proof would be a gross invasion of privacy and illegal, which make the evidence null. I got a letter from such an "attorney" once too. Ignored it and never heard anything back. They got no case

[night girder]

and what if a goverment is able to force a VPN provider to share details, by law, about your activity? You think nordVPN don't have logs?

[sage pier]

my dad when he watches an episode on any show even if its shit he needs to watch until the end to see the ending

[night girder]

99% sure nordVPN logs everything, just for terrorism and criminal activity.

[jagged snow]

Then don't use a bad vpn

Nord is a joke

[tough owl]

theres 3 i reccomend for legal uses only

[night girder]

You would be crazy as a VPN provider NOT to cover your back by having logs.

[edgy hazel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tibq87Gqzo

[jagged snow]

Mullvad

[tough owl]

Proton

iVPN

[night girder]

Proton is sweden right?

[tough owl]

in that order

[sage pier]

why wouldn't the government just take down the websites or the person sourcing the piracy though

[night girder]

Swiss, right. Yeah leggit.

[jagged snow]

If you're concerned about privacy in the slightest, I see no reason to not use mullvad

[sage pier]

its a waste of time anyway with how much pop ups there are

and redirects

[night girder]

because the websites itselves are decentralized.

[tough owl]

mullvad no longer lets you port forward, ill let you conclude as to why

[jagged snow]

Still better than other options

[tough owl]

by far

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/hail-hydra-cut-head-red-skull-villain-gif-17278080 Piracy websites* in a nutshell

[edgy hazel]

this video is permanently bookmarked

[tough owl]

the fact that you can pay with cash is 10/10

[jagged snow]

Stops you from hosting but not consuming

[tough owl]

you can host, its just painful to meet requirements

[tough owl]

fellow ff user

[white kraken]

You are trying to proof that it‘s not illegal with the way how some law enforcement could find it out. There are other ways to find it out. E.g. if they infiltrated a hoster of pirated content, like they did it already in the past with other illegal stuff.
It is illegal, but the chance that someone will randomly sue you because of it, is not as big as if you would distribute it.

[tough owl]

delta a lawyer by day, discord mod by night

[night girder]

I wonder have many little users are being sued vs big distributors.

[tough owl]

I know someone who got a letter from his ISP in america

was downloading a linux iso before release

[night girder]

Also, wouldn't a judge feel compassion that a 15 year old one or something downloaded one movie and has to be in court for that?

I mean, this doesn't feel like justice 😂

[edgy hazel]

the judge would prolly give lifelong

they're in the same bed with the corps

[night girder]

Yeah, and the owner of the priatebay probably get's free 😂

because of some "technicality"

[tough owl]

nah I think the piratebay guy got life or a really long sentence

[edgy hazel]

which is insane for a victimless crime

[jagged snow]

I do have to argue that piracy is not a victimless crime any more than theft is

[edgy hazel]

I don't

[white kraken]

I guess the are focusing on the distributors, because if they are stopped, the users can’t use the illegal content.

[night girder]

you are right, it isn't. But ripping us off isn't a crime either so 🤷‍♂️

[edgy hazel]

theft is taking something, piracy is copying something

[tough owl]

you wouldnt download a car

[jagged snow]

Piracy is taking something without permission and thus directly depriving someone of financial compensation they are entitled to

[night girder]

It's ok for companies to abuse their consumers.

[edgy hazel]

you're not taking anything

you're copying

[white kraken]

Which is still an copyright issue 😉

[night girder]

piracy is illegal for a reason.

[jagged snow]

🤨 explain that statement logically
I have taken posession of data that rightfully belongs to someone else

[edgy hazel]

life for copyright infringement sound fair lmao

[edgy hazel]

the data isn't deleted is it?

they still have the data

[night girder]

Oh, I see what herg means.

[edgy hazel]

they didn't loose the data

[jagged snow]

The pirate bay cost hundreds of millions of dollars in lost sales

[night girder]

No, they lost the money herg.

normally, I would buy a ticket of 18.99 to see a movie.

if I download for free, I "stole" that money of them.

[white kraken]

If a photographer is uploading a nice picture and someone just takes it and used it somewhere on their private website, it’s also an copyright infringement. And can cost the person who took the picture some money.

[jagged snow]

If I create counterfeit currency, I didn't take money from anyone but I'm still illegal

[edgy hazel]

which money? You need to prove that the money was going there anyways. Would you have bought a ticket if you couldn't download it? I for sure played a lot of games I wasn't gonna buy

[night girder]

The money you pay to use any product? Windows costs money. Games cost money. Movies cost money.

[jagged snow]

But there's no way to prove that
If I steal a million dollars and buy a porche that doesn't mean I was going to buy the porche anyways, but I still did

[night girder]

That money goes to the people who worked on the product.

So in that sense, you are stealing.

[edgy hazel]

again you're confusing a physical product with a digital copy

[night girder]

but it does feel that companies rob us too 😂

so maybe it's all in balance? 😄

[jagged snow]

There is a distinction to be made there, but you're taking it too far

[white kraken]

You are confusing your own opinion with the existing laws 😉

[night girder]

Btw, that's what the new lawsuit vs icloud is about.

the 5GB, people feel tricked by it. That it's so small it forces them to get a subscription. Just as an example, this is why I think companies rob us too.

[edgy hazel]

the company could have earned the money. Nobody stole it. Someone just hindered them from possibly earning it.

[edgy hazel]

facts vs laws but sure

[white kraken]

I think that discussion is something @crystal hound might also find interesting 😉

[jagged snow]

Rightfully, if you wanted to consume that content you either pay the price the provider sets or you don't consume the content

[tough owl]

Mod is calling backup

[dire igloo]

you don't take someone's money. You cause someone to not make money - which they wouldn't have made either way because you weren't willing to pay for it in the first place.

Also, depending on the way you do it, you might actually hurt the publishers more by going without piracy.
For example by buying grey market game keys: https://youtu.be/zLJkg_B3gyY

[jagged snow]

Simple as that

[white kraken]

More than user calling another user 😄

I’m not discussing as mod here 😉

[night girder]

Now that's confusing. How are we to know?

[dire igloo]

as a user, what are your thoughts on the mods in here?

[night girder]

Bro, wth 😂

[white kraken]

Otherwise I would have to tell: Rule #8 - Stop it

[night girder]

I though that's why you were here 😂

[white kraken]

They are lovely 😉

[jagged snow]

@edgy hazel here's a better example that I have firsthand experience with
Sneaking into an event
Some of the events I organize have lost very very large sums of money from people climbing a fence or sneaking in
They didn't directly take anything from us, but they sure did create a lot of financial damage

[dire igloo]

we're discussing whether these laws represent reality

[jagged snow]

And you could make the argument that they wouldn't have paid anyways, but it still directly causes us harm

[dire igloo]

hm, sounds like something a mod would say

[night girder]

It's not that difficult is it?

If you touch other people money = illegal.

[pure karma]

there fairly chill whit the rule enforcing and i like it

[night girder]

The whole world revolves around people doing services for being paid in money. If you touch this, the law will come for you.

[edgy hazel]

and it should be enough to just check the wiki page for copyright infringement

Copyright holders frequently refer to copyright infringement as theft, "although such misuse has been rejected by legislatures and courts".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#.22Theft.22

[night girder]

If I work 5-6 years on a game, and it get's pirated and I don't earn anything. Is that fair? (this is the case of small solo indie developer)

[white kraken]

Hehe.
But on a serious note: I have seen some really overmoderated servers, but the mod here are quite chill and just act on the bad stuff 🙂

[dire igloo]

it causes you harm because there's a physical limit on how many people can receive your service. The only reason you lost out on ticket sales was that you couldn't let any more paying customers into the venue.
That is not the case in the digital world.

[edgy hazel]

then you failed as a publisher to make you game either accessible or cheap enough for the consumers to not go through the trouble of pirating it

[white kraken]

That might be the US view of it, but not the german view.

[night girder]

That's not how humans work.

[jagged snow]

Well okay
Maybe my example was flawed

[edgy hazel]

that's how the market works

[night girder]

no.

Most markets don't know the concept of piracy.

You cannot just hijack a oil tanker on the sea... without reporcussions. It's illegal 😛

[white kraken]

Brb

[dire igloo]

It is flawed because it leaves out the one important factor: you don't hurt a big company if you pirate their stuff

[jagged snow]

Nope
The ability to just bypass he market and take something for free if you personally decide it's too expensive fundamentally breaks the functionality of a free market

[jagged snow]

But can you prove they aren't hurt by it?

[night girder]

I know I am wrong in this. But when it comes to big companies, I am more like Herg tbh. I don't feel so bad for EA losing money because of piracy.

[dire igloo]

can you prove they are?

[jagged snow]

Either way, you still have no right to it.

[night girder]

But if it was a solo developer, I would have issue with it. I know this isn't nice of me.

[dire igloo]

I may not have the right to it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to do

[jagged snow]

Well now we're moving away from legal to moral arguments, but I would take a very strong stance that that does in fact make it very wrong

[night girder]

Also, how do you know this? Any proof? Because I think the same. But I don't have any data to base it on.

[jagged snow]

That's the fundamental problem with this argument
Piracy is based on the fact that you feel like you should have it and you don't want to pay

[crystal hound]

too many msgs to read

[dire igloo]

The main reason why people pirate stuff is because there are too many hurdles to obtaining said stuff legitimately.
And in pretty much all cases, this is a financial hurdle.

When Netflix became big, we saw movie piracy plummet - because it was inexpensive and convenient enough to watch the shows and movies legitimately.
Now with more and more streaming services joining the landscape, content being split up among them, prices being raised and UX being hurt by stuff like anti-password-sharing measures or ads, we see people go back to piracy - because it's cheaper than paying all the different streaming services and easier than checking where the one thing you want to watch is available

[jagged snow]

Have an llm summarize it

[night girder]

Btw, the new class action against Apple: www.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/FelixGamboavAppleIncDocketNo524cv01270NDCalMar012024CourtDocket?doc_id=X4LCILN1RHR81IRG50GNOAUM9P2

not sure if it has been posted in here before.

[winged valley]

Piracy of active media (that is, media that is reasonably ontainable through legal means) is objectively wrong and its up to the individual to do it

[tough owl]

tldr?

[winged valley]

I myself have 5tb of "legitimately" acquired anime

[jagged snow]

Just because something is hard to get doesn't mean that you just have the right to it

[dire igloo]

small number in comparison to their big number

[jagged snow]

So you're arguing that the harm is insignificant, not nonexistent

[night girder]

So, apple has 5GB free limit for iCloud. But users are saying this is a nasty trick. Because 5GB is way too small these days, even too small for a backup. So apple is tricking users into paying for iCloud, by having a very low free limit of 5GB.

[dire igloo]

Doesn't mean that it's not okay to do it

[jagged snow]

Yes it does

[dire igloo]

To you maybe. For me it's a mismatch of legally wrong but morally right

[night girder]

@tough owl I don't think they will win this case though 😒

[jagged snow]

How can you argue that it's morally right to take something just because you desire it?

[tough owl]

I mean other backup solutions exist, and also if we wanna get technical about the size not being enough google has 15gb and isnt enough to backup your pixel

[edgy hazel]

Anyway. Piracy is not theft. It can't be due to the definition of theft, which includes the removal of someone else's possession.
A loss of profit might be a consequence, but its not theft.

[dire igloo]

If you didn't want me pirating your stuff, you wouldn't do stuff that hurts me as your consumer - like pulling content from streaming platforms, raising prices or playing ads

[night girder]

Apple has behaved as alleged herein in a willful attempt to obtain a monopoly in the market for Cloud Storage on Apple Mobile Devices, with the effect being that competition is foreclosed and that consumer choice is gravely diminished

[crystal hound]

I wonder how many ppl. pay that 1$ for the 50 GB lol

[night girder]

I don't 😄 I hit the limit, I move data over to my NAS

[tough owl]

(i pay for 2tb)

[jagged snow]

That's a terrible argument
If I need to do that stuff to survive as a business, then I have every right to do so

[crystal hound]

||I do|| Ah fair point. I'm too lazy for that

[jagged snow]

I'm not saying I support the actions of the corporations that do these things, I find them just as dishonorable as the act of piracy

[tough owl]

and also google no longer has free unlimited photo backup either

[dire igloo]

I don't just take it because I desire it. You are using material logic and phrasing for an immaterial world.
I take it because I don't see any harm in taking it and because obtaining it legitimately would be too big of a hurdle - which btw the owner is directly responsible for

[crystal hound]

Google Drive 15 GB free, just use that :p

[tough owl]

not enough to backup yor phone

[charred pewter]

what fits on 15gb these days

[tough owl]

which is what this case is making an argument of, 5gb not being enough to backup your phone

[edgy hazel]

[crystal hound]

If you have more than 15 GB pictures, you should back-up your stuff on own hardware

[tough owl]

I uh

[dire igloo]

if you need to rely on harming your customers as your business strategy, you shouldn't be making business and deserve to be exploited by your customers, easy as that

[pure karma]

literally

[tough owl]

have 250gb of photos and videos in icloud

[dire igloo]

yes, you have the legal right to do so. But I have the moral right to retaliate

remember, corporations are not your friends

[edgy hazel]

couldn't linux use another word for that?

[tough owl]

with like 2gb being memes

[white kraken]

I just run my own cloud as well. So much less hassle 😄

[night girder]

The antitrust laws provide a remedy. Apple has violated the Sherman Act in at least two ways. First, Apple has unlawfully “tied” two products together—specifically, its mobile devices and iCloud—by compelling that device holders use iCloud to back up and store Restricted Files. This tie satisfies all criteria for per se condemnation because Apple has market power in the tying device markets and the tie involves separate products and a significant volume of commerce. Second, by inhibiting competition from rival cloud-storage providers, Apple unlawfully monopolizes (and has attempted to monopolize) the market for Cloud Storage on Apple Mobile Devices.

[jagged snow]

That argument is still fundamentally flawed
Just because you don't see any harm in taking it does not mean that that is correct, especially when the wider concensus is still that it is the wrong thing to do. The owner has the right to make it as difficult to obtain as they would like, and you have the right to not consume that content, since it is a want and not a need.

[night girder]

I didn't know it was illegal to tie two products together 😒

[jagged snow]

If you want to retaliate, you do that by taking your business elsewhere

If they are truly treating consumers poorly enough to anger them, they will take their business elsewhere

[tough owl]

I really need to, but icloud is so much easier with photo optimization turned on, than backing up my photos to a different device and then having to pull them from that different device when I need them

[edgy hazel]

that's where it comes in handy to be a monopoly

[jagged snow]

Movies or games are not a need 🤷‍♂️

[charred pewter]

taking ones business elsewhere can also be the act of sailing the high seas

[white kraken]

For photos I’m using the Synology apps, which are uploading the images to the NAS automatically.

[charred pewter]

they took their business to the pirate sector :/

[night girder]

You mean tax evasion? Like all the headquarters in Ireland 😂

[jagged snow]

If somebody has a monopoly on food or water and is making it impossible for you to obtain it, there is a much stronger argument to be made for just taking it anyways

[tough owl]

I find their apps clunky

[white kraken]

And backing them up to another server of my “cloud”

[charred pewter]

turnip boy commits tax evasion?

[white kraken]

DS Drive looks nearly similar to OneDrive or Google Drive or how ever you want to call the apps

[tough owl]

when I do have funds for a proper homelab personal cloud im going to use this immich.app/

[tough owl]

its slow and buggy as balls

[dire igloo]

I don't give a shit about the wide consensus, especially on moral questions. Way too often has the wide consensus on morals been morally wrong.

If the owner decides to make it as hard to obtain as possible, then they are taking the risk not only of people not consuming that content, but also of people seeking alternative ways of consuming said content. If you as a business owner don't calculate that last part in what you do, that's your problem and not mine

[charred pewter]

i dont have the time and patience to setup something on synology

[night girder]

Only problem I have is, when you download your pictures from iCloud to your PC, the dates will be set to the day you downloaded it. So you can also export the metadata in a seperate file. I would highly recommend doing this! I made a script to set the dates correct based on the metadata.

[tough owl]

do you download original or optimized photos?

[night girder]

original + metafiles. Forgot the format let me look.

[tough owl]

ah i havent found that to be an issue

[jagged snow]

I have over 1tb

[edgy hazel]

you could argue that they're somewhere in the Esteem or Self-Actualization part of human needs, but I got other shit to do rn to argue about that aswell

[night girder]

What dates do you get when you dowload from iCloud to your mac? I think the creation date is wrong or something.

[jagged snow]

You could argue that maslow got a lot of things wrong

[dire igloo]

exactly. This elsewhere is called "piracy"

[night girder]

Normally, the dates should be the date that you downloaded the photo to your macbook and not the date you actually tookt he picture. I find this annoying.

because I want the dates of the files being the date i TOOK the picture.

[jagged snow]

• somewhere else that is not morally wrong

[tough owl]

let me double check hold on

[edgy hazel]

that's why you usually use stuff like that as a rough guideline.

[dire igloo]

I don't see it as morally wrong

[jagged snow]

But it's frankly evident that I'm not going to convince you

[night girder]

Yeah I am double checking also haha 😄

[dire igloo]

you do, but I don't care if you think it's wrong or not

[tough owl]

this is what I use to download

[dire igloo]

I don't see a point in thinking that piracy at this scale can be morally wrong

[jagged snow]

That doesn't mean it isn't
Now you're confusing morals and ethics

[night girder]

I just use the photo.app.

[dire igloo]

No, I would not pirate off a small indie dev - that said, a small indie dev doesn't make it an expensive chore to obtain their game

[tough owl]

im on my linux box and im using icloud.com, puts them all ina nice little zip

[night girder]

Oh, you are right kade, it seems they fixed it.

I swear to god, for a while, the dates were gone 😂 Hence I made a script.

[dire igloo]

I don't know why they would be separate entities.
To me, discussing what is right or wrong outside of legal boundaries, is a matter of subjective opinion and not public consensus

[night girder]

🍿

[tough owl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIFAbKxDAoU speaking of which, thank you youtube for something I cant afford

[jagged snow]

I frankly don't care what it is to you
Right and wrong is objective, weather or not you chose to follow that is subjective

[edgy hazel]

oh no

[night girder]

right and wrong is objective? 👀 you mean subjective?

[edgy hazel]

are you saying the law is always morally correct?

[jagged snow]

Now I'm getting controvercial 😉

[edgy hazel]

AAAAAAA

[jagged snow]

lol not even close

[edgy hazel]

what then? Because it sound like it

[dire igloo]

how can right or wrong be objective? What measurement do you use?
A survey? That's collecting a lot of subjective opinions.
Legislation? We're outside of that as I already said.
Some weird maths? Enlighten me.

[night girder]

I think I understand what Fight or Flight is trying saying.

[tough owl]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-enjoy-i-like-nom-nom-gif-11040065238845078056

[edgy hazel]

if it is objective, someone has to set it as a fact, and the closest to that would be the law 😭

[night girder]

As a collective, we make rules about what is wrong or right ("objective" because we decided this as a collective) and as a person, you can choose to follow this or not (subjective part?)

[dire igloo]

I don't

we're outside of those rules

assuming those rules are laws

[tough owl]

dates are wrong 💀

[night girder]

😒

[dire igloo]

because there aren't any other rules that we collectively agreed upon

[night girder]

This exactly happened to me before. That's why I always export the metadata.

the metadata is stored in a .xmp file. (just fancy apple xml I believe)

[night girder]

Yes we do.

[dire igloo]

and no, laws aren't objectively right or wrong.
The US still has the death penalty in multiple of their states, some of them even still enforce it.
The EU has abolished the death penalty because they ruled it as inhumane

[edgy hazel]

god I just found the cutest model

[dire igloo]

pls share

[night girder]

Democracy = people choose lawmakers = they make laws. So in that sense, one could argue we agreed.

[edgy hazel]

spider warning

[edgy hazel]

as a german I disagree

[night girder]

Fully your right 🙂

I just saying, one could argue that.

Not saying the system actually works 😂

[edgy hazel]

but that makes it not objective