off-topic-tech

[torpid plaza]

Hm, the newer OnePlus phones aren't on the supported list for lineage :/

[jagged snow]

Iirc the only one they don't support is the 10/10pro

I know the 9 is supported since that's what I have

[pure karma]

amd be taking these deals to serious bruh 6$ really

[maiden coyote]

welp. I've lost access to my gaming pc.. SO figured out the 2080ti is over 10x faster at stable diffusion than her 1080. time to get a new gpu.

[twin dew]

So time to get her a 4070 Ti SUPER?

Because that speedup is almost completely for the bigger VRAM (8GB to 11GB), so think what the upgrade to 16GB VRAM will do.

3080 TI 20GB, 3090 and 4090 would be even better, but the two first one are probably unobtainium at this point and last has absolutely insane price.

Or 4080 Super (same VRAM, higher bandwidth and flops)

[maiden coyote]

I saw a thing that claimed they had taken a 2080 ti and replaced the 1gb memory modules with 2gb, giving it 22gb of vram. I'd rather take the risk on that then try to get a 3090 or 4090.

the 4060 ti with 16gb looks promising.

[twin dew]

Changed, detected, wasn't used as VBIOS wasn't modded.

IIRC for several of the last swaps.

[maiden coyote]

Yeah, modding the vbios might be possible, if I knew what to change. bricking the bios isn't really a concern for me.

[twin dew]

Nvidia has them signed, so not possible really.

Ok, for 2000-series it was broken this fall.

[maiden coyote]

how are they signed? does the gpu chip itself check the bios for a match, or is it on the driver side?

[twin dew]

Well, it was good enough that the hashrate limited cards were never broken.
And there would have been huge amounts of money for that.

[maiden coyote]

so that was something fancier than just a driver patch?

[twin dew]

Yes.

And IIRC I haven't ever heard about any semi-modern card being memory modded to work if there wasn't higher capacity legit version to use as VBIOS base.

[maiden coyote]

well, it's possible nivida could program rom onto the gpu die to DRM lock it to the bios if they wanted.. sony and microsoft do that with their consoles.

[twin dew]

This "backdoor" is intentionally build functionally by the Developers @ NvidiaHQ
Nvflash operates on a golden-card system.
This means that depending on the Bios that is loaded on your card (Founders/GlobalVendors/XOC/MASTER) Certificate;
It will change operation and allow more or less.

[maiden coyote]

It'd be a neat project to mod a 2080 ti to 22GB, and really cool if it worked. I'm leaning more towards the 4060 with 16gb if they ever go down to a sane price.. or even amd..

So using a programmer to write the bios manually wouldn't get around that?

[twin dew]

No.

[maiden coyote]

more reason to take a harder look at amd cards. I kind of liked that I was able to reflash the firepro w7100 into a working card.

[twin dew]

When Nvidia launched the Maxwell GPU architecture (GeForce 900 series), it introduced an on-die security processor, dubbed Falcon. This would be a strike against counterfeiters, as it added vBIOS signature checks and vendor / device checks. However, the move closed the granular control of Nvidia GPUs that modders had previously enjoyed via vBIOS modding techniques.

[maiden coyote]

that's dirty :/

[twin dew]

And even this seems to only allow crossflashing and some very limited edits to OC limits:
https://www.techpowerup.com/312631/nvidia-bios-signature-lock-broken-vbios-modding-and-crossflash-enabled-by-groundbreaking-new-tools

[twin dew]

Unfortunately trying to use Stable Diffusion with AMD cards is much harder, and AFAIK only works on Linux.
As the Windows ROCm is just much less complete at this time.

[maiden coyote]

most of what I can find about exploiting falcon relates to the nintendo switch.

I was kind of planning on setting up a server with the amd w7100 and using stable diffusion for upscaling video to 1080p that should be within it's 8gb vram limit (unless it can be modded) and it's a use for it that doesn't matter if it takes days to complete.

I wouldn't be against running linux. I was going to set it up with proxmox and pcie passthrough anyway

[wide void]

Steamdeck ordered!

at least I can game a little on our 'trip'

I could be away for over 12 months, I want options! lol

I did have a quick look at alternatives, Steamdeck seemed the best option

The Asus didn't seem bad either

only the steamdeck is 1TB so far though

[edgy hazel]

You could run lutris

Thats how I play cyberpunk

[night girder]

have you seen the price?

[wide void]

out of interest, does Steamdeck work with their cloud saves?

thats Fantastic

[night girder]

well, the claw does has 32GB ram. Which is probably overkill for a handheld.

829 euro's for the claw vs 369 for steam deck.

also the 2nd generation of claw is already being planned.

🤷‍♂️

[wide void]

thats not the Oled

steamdeck OLED 1TB is £560

[night girder]

still cheaper

[wide void]

aye

[night girder]

claw doesn't have oled?

[wide void]

if not actually a loss leader, there is probably an element of subsidising it with game sales

I may have to get Diablo 4, mate plays it on the Steamdeck, says it plays really well

[night girder]

Baine plays it too I think, I am not a fan of it's release. All the p2w 😒 Or p2e 😒 whatever

What did it do to innovate?

maybe it's just because I hate blizzard. Or Activision. Or whatever their mob name is atm.

let's be real here, this isn't about gaming anymore. It's shady companies milking us. Look at the whole development story of OW2 if you want to know bliz.

OW they promise so much. Nothing was true. None of it.

They cancelled the PVE campaign etc.

So all they did. Was take away ALL progression from OW1 (killing the seervers of OW1). Put OW1 into OW2. And let people start from scratch.

I am happy with my current collection of games.

[edgy hazel]

Bro Teams you better keep that shit for yourself okay? Otherwise we're gonna have a problem.

[wide void]

lol

one thing I don't have is a reasonable Car racing game, anyone have any suggestions for the Steamdeck?

[edgy hazel]

Dirt is fun

Dirt Rally 2.0 if you like rally
Dirt 5 for racing

They start through steam

Noooo

But Dirt 5 works

The games store site will show if it supports steam deck

You can check yourself

But I'm also surprised of how good steam is at displaying a huge amount of information in a really comprehensive way

[wide void]

something they have said is that Steam OS doesn't deal well with anticheat stuff

that limits some compatibility

where the Ally is running a hacked Win11

[night girder]

If you know how cheats work, then you will realize that anti-cheat has to work that way.

[edgy hazel]

@wide void Forza 5 would also run on steam deck. It's really fun.

(And it's currently also 50% off)

[wide void]

do I need the 73 million DLCs?

[edgy hazel]

Oh shit

No lmao but I do recommend this bundle. Hotwheels one alone is worth the 40€

But the base game itself is fun enough

I played it through without DLC

[wide void]

I'm waiting for a few games to come out early this year, I'll see if what I have allocated can strech to the add-on bundle, lol

Dragon's Dogma 2 and Towers of Aghasba both look like they will be amazing

The First Descendant could be cool, but I did about 500 hours in the closed/open betas so feel pretty burned out before it is even released, lol

I did the same with Wolcen, actually a decent game but I'd done 500+ hours in testing and never played post release.. lol

[charred pewter]

poomp my car wont start, battery ... grrr

wow, when did car batteries get so expensive ???

cost more to replace a battery than it cost me to rebuild my entire clutch

[wide void]

I paid £120 for a 110AH battery in the caravan about 2 months ago...

a quality lithium one was £400 odd

[charred pewter]

all the ones coming up are $200 usd

its actually $230 FROM AAA service but they give a $30 discount to 'members' ... but a battery from a local auto shop are $190 base, and will refund $22 if you bring in the old one lol ... so what am i paying for with AAA ?!?!

oh right... the off chance i need them to tow me 100 miles to my mechanic

ive had them since 2011, and ive never used them cause ive never broken down 😦

paying $110ish/yr for them, ive sunk like $1400 into AAA service and never used them

The average 40-mile tow costs $125 to $250. .... yup im paying too much for AAA 😄

[night girder]

ewww, ... public transport

[charred pewter]

i would if i wasnt having to haul back 300lbs of groceries

ive often walked up to the post office, or the bank, or even the hardware store for some nuts n bolts

[night girder]

ask Asablic how fun it is to be on public transport when someone is carrying a chainsaw 😂

[charred pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/jason-friday-the-13th-gif-18483113

[jagged snow]

I drive a small car, so my batteries are more like 140-150... but I bought a new one last year since the old one died after 8 years of use. It didn't even make it 9 months before giving out, so I was able to get it replaced under warranty

[charred pewter]

i drive a 1984 sportscar ... it weighs less than the tires on SUV's today .... but the smallest battery i can get is $198 !!!

[jagged snow]

I also get a commercial discount 😉

[charred pewter]

doh

yeah, the discount i can get is by returning the core

so it gets near $160

[jagged snow]

Oh yeah

[charred pewter]

the battery i bought in 2003 was $70 in total lol

in 2014 i had an AutoZone bill for $118 ... no notes, i think that was the LAST battery i bought (the one i have now)

[jagged snow]

10 years is a pretty good lifespan for a lead acid batt

[charred pewter]

yeah

[charred pewter]

found a sticker on the battery... 3/13

so 10 years 10 monthish

[languid gulch]

good god

where i live you're lucky to get 2 years

[charred pewter]

yeah, my batteries never survived 5 years out in arizona

but then batteries back then were only $50

so looks like in the midwest, im averaging 10 years a battery .... hopefully this $200 new battery will last me that long 😉

so my prior battery I got 90 cents a month out of. thats cheaper than ... well... any subscription services ! maybe they should 'rent' batteries for $7.99/mo lol

[twin dew]

From about 65e to about 150e for my car in here, including the 24% VAT.

[mental oriole]

Oh boy.

Apple pulling a unity.

[charred pewter]

well, unlike unity, apple owns the hardware that apps are made for, so shouldnt they have the right to control pricing of whats on it ?

oh wait no! everyone is entitled to come into your garage and sell their stuff and keep all the money... thanks for the use of your garage!

apple's always been so fascist about their crap lol ... its more of a footnote in the humor section now

[mental oriole]

💀

[charred pewter]

oof

imagine steam suddenly charging devs for installs (regardless where or how someone bought/got the game on steam)

shit on gog ?

i just dont like it, but idont shit on it

isnt gog galaxy like anti 'no drm' so it makes their 'no drm' stance sort of awkward

glaxy itself is a drm of sorts

like steam does

but i mean a downloader is ... in essence... digital rights management

it manages the right to have the game

[charred pewter]

i dont know why people get so abrasive against a downloader/manager ... its there to make life easier

[mental oriole]

People love to hate.

[charred pewter]

we have one for the mac side, and its worlds better than all the other mac based ones ... but we still get a few randoms who just bitch about I DONT WANT A DOWNLOADER APP !!! ... then they proceed to go buy a steam game, and im like ... uh , wtf ?

[mental oriole]

And complain in general.

[river mountain]

pfft, you young punk

unless you know what R Tape loading error, 0:1 means 😛

[gilded helm]

I don't think people mind launchers so much as the fact that they add clicks. I have a shortcut to Witcher 3 on my desktop. But it's not double click and launch. First I get prompted to make an account. Then I have to click no, then I get taken to the actual launcher and can finally click play. Pointless crap. Not a huge deal, but still pointless.

Hardware Unboxed has an entire podcast episode about why non-steam game stores suck, and I pretty much agree with the entire thing. Which is rare with me and any HUB video.

[charred pewter]

our 'launcher' actually doesnt get in the middle of launching unless you are in the app itself and clicking "Play" on the game in the library.... but once its downloaded/installed/registered... one can launch that game straight from Finder if they want, and it wont even load up our manager in the middle

[gilded helm]

A frictionless user experience, as all things should be

[charred pewter]

written by a few guys who all hate how other apps handle things 😄

why must this launch first, why do i have to be signed in, why the fuck do i have to be online for this strictly solo offline game, arg!!!!

[gilded helm]

Yep. To its credit, Steam never makes me sign in again until I reinstall Windows or some shit. That was not the case with EGS and I'm not touching it again, even for free games.

[charred pewter]

yeah, i give steam credit for that

Ubisoft? Rockstar? ESO? Epic? EA LAUNCHER (OMG) ....

EA is the WORST ... they have a checkbox "remember me on this device" ... i launch it tomorrow, i gotta sign in again

[gilded helm]

Blizzard's launcher is decent

But the worst thing about EGS is that anytime you need to sign in again, that's also a sign that it's forgotten all your settings, and you're basically dealing with a clean install situation.

[charred pewter]

hahaha ouch

[gilded helm]

In which case, enjoy those system tray adverts until you disable them again. Offline play is also disabled by default, so you need to re-enable that.

[charred pewter]

and their game library is NOT the easiest to manage as it is ... let alone having to go do it again

[river mountain]

ubisoft is the only one to have deleted my entire library when i didn't log into it for a while

the one thing i will say about ea is that when i had a problem with some games which wouldn't activate properly under the new launcher (because i'd used the codes before the launcher was a thing) their customer service was absolutely fantastic about resolving it

[charred pewter]

im still waiting on ubisoft to respond to the 'glitch' in watch_dogs legion where the whole save file is corrupted and you cannot load it again .... 60hours down the drain ... its been two days no response

and this bug has been mentioned multiple times over 3 years .... no fix

had i known about it ahead of time, i would have made pre-backups before continuing a working save, so that if it crapped itself, i would only lose a couple hours that night

i dont recall ever having to contact EA

[night girder]

I must say, I reported a bug for BG3. Two days later I had a email asking me to send the save file. Send it to them. And then I got a thank you.

I really think this was a good support and way of handling bugs. Not some generic bot replying "Thank you."

and then to bug goes into a JIRA void.

And I still don't mind if they don't fix the bug immediately, the fact they take time to ask for a save file and write a thank you, it means a lot.

[gilded helm]

When I was reporting my issues with epic, I logged into my account on their website. But I was unable to submit a ticket because of an invalid email address. Then why did they let me make my account with it?

[night girder]

That sucks 😒

I have the same feeling with CS, I see so many bugs. But I just cba to report them.

[gilded helm]

The email clearly works, I always got my game receipts

[night girder]

Have you seen the QA website? It's a mountain of open bugs 😄

[gilded helm]

Yep

[night girder]

"The workshop lights don't work, let me see if it's reported, ..." ... ... "Ah, it's been reported 2 years ago"

[gilded helm]

I have my doubts that there will be a final pass where stuff like that is fixed

[night girder]

So it just feels like a waste of time to report. The chance of the bugs being picked up is very low.

[night girder]

I don't know, it seems a lot of little bugs to fix 😒

[charred pewter]

i couldnt even attach my save file to ubisofts support ticket, because it has a limit of 20mb, and the save file alone (just the base bin file) was 118mb =p

[night girder]

didn't the e-mail explain that part? BG3 support team made a whole tutorial on how to upload my save file and send it to them 😂

Ofc, it's copy paste. But they did everything to help us players help them. Love it.

[charred pewter]

right, some devs/companies actually like getting dump files or saved games to investigate with

[night girder]

Yes they do. And I understand that.

[charred pewter]

ubisoft asking for a file is more like a bot asking, and it just goes into the circular filing system ...

[night girder]

That's what I hate. I want to talk to a human. Not a bot.

[charred pewter]

Circular File:

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/feed-the-void-black-cat-snack-hungry-cat-hungry-gif-306965068353833327

[charred pewter]

THE VOID HAS EYES!

(isnt that the name of a game?)

[night girder]

</dev/null 😂

/dev/null, the null device, is a special file that discards all data written to it

[charred pewter]

too obvious 😄

/circular/file ... is a symbolic link to /dev/null 😄

[night girder]

if (report == bugReport) {report </dev/null}

[charred pewter]

please dont send my ticket to /dev/null

[night girder]

that I didn't know 😂

We had a scrummaster picking up bug tickets to elevate them. Since the bugs reported were in the thousands.

[charred pewter]

oof ... damn

and here i take 2 tickets about the same bug pretty seriously 😦

[night girder]

So 99% of the bug reports, developers didn't even see.

Unless they went out of the way to go check them, but let's be real, who does that? 😂

[charred pewter]

i get on our support staff's case when the same issue comes in three times and ive not been informed ... lol

[night girder]

I think it's a important part of the development life cycle. Good support. Good maintenance. And a system to handle bugs.

[charred pewter]

thats THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE having the problem! ... as is, every issue that comes in, theres a thousand others who have it but are either not bothering to write in, or dont really realize its a problem (aka accepting mediocrity)

[night girder]

but so many teams get downscaled, it's hard for them.

[charred pewter]

yeah 😦

[night girder]

Relatively. CSS does a good job.

[charred pewter]

they certainly do

[night girder]

Atleast they have a website people can check for bugs and report them. Many games don't have that.

Or it's a generic forum. Which again leads to dev/null

[charred pewter]

KeenSWH ... i mean they try, but man Space Engineers has a TON of issues in it, and some bugs ive reported dont get flagged as "fixed in next update" for like 2 year stretches...

[night girder]

That's sounds pretty bad

[charred pewter]

but they have so far gotten around to fixing every issue ive taken the time to write up lol

it just ...... took a horrible long time LOL

but for ubisoft, to ignore a 'saved game corruption bug' for THREE YEARS .... when its been mentioned multiple times in multiple places ... wow

i mean thats game breaking... not like "oh the audio for a cat is coming out of the wrong speaker" ... but rather "you just spent 100 hours playing? SORRY YOU CANT FINISH NOW"

[night girder]

I might be wrong here. But the "go fast and break things" mantra is getting out of hand.

I see a lot of development picking up in speed at the cost of quality. They keep going forward and forward. But behind, they leave a path of bugs.

To the point the bugs are growing above their heads, and they just keep going forward. New features on top of new features.

Because once you reach the point that it feels the pile of bugs is so bug, you cannot get rid of it, it really demotivates to start fixing them. So they get ignored.

[night girder]

In your case, it can be that the team that worked on that game, has moved to other projects.

And the team currently keeping the game alive, doesn't have a freaking clue how the game was made. They know enough to keep it up 😂

[gilded helm]

It feels like this happens to CDPR especially. The scope of their games is just too big for adequate polish.

[night girder]

yes, GW2 has same problem. It has 8 expansions and still bugs in the core game. The game is 12 years old.

[gilded helm]

The other problem I have with the sort of meandering game design that's also in Satisfactory and Valheim is that design language becomes inconsistent over time. Look no further than the catwalk attachments to factory buildings. Or in Valheim, the quality of the earlier dungeons versus the more recent dungeons.

[night girder]

I really struggle to get going in Valheim. I kill the first boss or two. But then it feels so daunting to expand to the next one.

[gilded helm]

I'm looking forward to the next update to Valheim, but I also think it will do more to make the earlier parts of the game demand additional polish.

[night girder]

The early stages take a bit too long imo. Same for CS.

Maybe they are just too hardcore for me 😛

[gilded helm]

The evolved design language looks very good in Valheim, everything that was made in the early stages just needs to catch up. But there's still time for that. But I have the same worry that they're building a mountain of catchup work.

[night girder]

I was never into games that are hardcore to be hardcore. What do I have to proof 🤷‍♂️

[gilded helm]

They now have difficulty sliders if that would make a difference. So you can accelerate the pacing for yourself by just increasing the resources you get.

[night girder]

Oh that's nice. Now if they could make a way to find the traders more easily for example. I never found one.

[gilded helm]

You can also turn raids off

[night girder]

I mean, why add a trader mechanic, that spawns somewhere on the whole bloody map. And you got no clue where?

Or something like that 😄

[gilded helm]

Yeah, they added a couple bird messages about the trader, but it's not really useful.

And now there's a second one

[night girder]

The hardest part in this story is, maybe the developers have a vision for their game, and it's just not my cup of tea. Which is possible.

It's hard to say "The developers are doing it totally wrong" since it can be that we just don't like it, but many other people do.

So in those cases, only time will tell. Freaking EA games 😦

nevertheless, you gotta keep up with bugs. Even in EA.

Red Maw, did you encounter a lot of bugs in Valheim?

[gilded helm]

A reasonable amount, but not a large amount. But the ones I report don't seem to get much attention. Recently other people brought one up hoping it would be fixed. I recorded myself parrying a monster and canceling its attack animation. But the attack goes through anyway.

For whatever reason when I reported it to one of the developers (Smiffe) it didn't get put on the radar. Another player just brought it back up last month hoping for an update.

And there's all sorts of wonkiness with build pieces.

They are still making changes to have build pieces work overall, so I understand some hesitation in putting too much effort to fix what might be temporary bugs there. But the attack animation one is really annoying.

[night girder]

Ah, my experience was pretty solid. But that was all very early game. That's why I asked you, I think you have more hours into it 🙂

[gilded helm]

I would say balance isn't there for there difficulty presets. Which are still relatively new, so this is understandable. But you can customize all the sliders in a granular way.

[night girder]

I don't see that game getting released in a year or two.

[gilded helm]

End of 2025 at earliest.

[night girder]

They said that?

[charred pewter]

sorry i got pulled away ... fixing a bug in the system 😄

[gilded helm]

Total guess on my part. There doesn't seem to be any parallel design of the remaining areas, they're working through them serially. Which leads to the inconsistent design language.

[charred pewter]

one of those itchy nasty bugs that take awhile to rear its ugly head because it doesnt really throw errors, but something is afoot wrong

[gilded helm]

Something needing to be caught in the act?

[charred pewter]

pretty much

also a creeping one that NO ONE MENTIONS about .... and you just stumble across it one day

🤦

i mean i litterally stumbled across it two hours ago ... just out of random happenchance and was like "wait, this doesnt seem right" .... went down the rabbit hole, and sure enough a festering monster down there eating all the bunnies

Watership Down style

[gilded helm]

That reminds me of power switching issues on laptops that cause system sputters. But so rarely that you can't get any tech support people to take it seriously. So no driver teams at Microsoft or laptop OEMs have dealt with it adequately.

[charred pewter]

right !

[gilded helm]

I think it has started affecting a broad spectrum of laptops in the last 4 years. Including laptops that didn't have the problem before, but something changed in Windows.

[charred pewter]

thats not good ... something a driver can fix though? its not just faulty hardware

[gilded helm]

It's a system-wide sputter that happens on a frequency that might be measured in dozens of hours. But on my Dell that used to be my daily driver, it never happened for the first 4 years that I owned it.

The same sort of thing happens on the Lenovo that I have now.

I would bet on some sort of issue with clocking the system up and down.

Or thread scheduling

[charred pewter]

reminding me of the new recent input glitch apple has introduced for no reason .... all was fine, then one os update the mouse clicks were getting randomly sporadic ... then the next os update whole apps suddenly dont get any mouse clicks at all ... then another os update and now keyboard commands dont even get through .... "oh but its all Unity's fault" - Apple

[gilded helm]

Neither machine is detecting any sort of temperature spike when it happens

[charred pewter]

so more like a power loss, but so sharp, its not registered ?

vdroop like, but not really ?

honestly ive been noticed more and more in windows11 just random 'hiccups' in games caused by the CPU ... so many threads just being shuffled around and it causes random stutters (not like constant, just ... a bad case of hiccups)

[gilded helm]

Something like that. If I were merely a gamer I would just tolerate it. But now that I DJ as much as I do, only sputtering some of the time, even only for a few seconds every dozens of hours, isn't good.

[night girder]

I am done trouble shooting for a while. It fucking sucks 😂

[charred pewter]

oh god no! any split second cut in audio would rape my ears so bad

[gilded helm]

Yep. It is incredibly obvious when it happens.

It's not power loss though, there's no pop through the system. It just sounds like the audio is being played at a tenth of the speed.

[charred pewter]

youve heard me screaming about my bluetooth speakers right ???

[gilded helm]

Yep

[charred pewter]

slowmo audio... wow

yeah, that would be equally as annoying

[night girder]

Red Maw... music.app (on my Macbook Pro) has a bug that it sometimes starts to play songs in a different tempo, like 0.5x speed. I have to quiet music app and restart it to get it fixed. It's horrible.

[charred pewter]

good grief

[gilded helm]

Some sort of mouse gesture accidentally causing that?

[night girder]

No mouse connected.

[gilded helm]

But if you can't change it back that's terrible

[night girder]

And I don't press anything.

[charred pewter]

"user error" - Apple

[night girder]

It's just one of those weird bugs. And I cannot replicate it. It just happens sometimes.

[charred pewter]

"apples fault" - Adobe

"adobes issue" - Apple

[night girder]

And I was thinking "Good luck in reporting a bug to Apple, as if they are going to fix it" 😂

[gilded helm]

There are a lot of people who swear by Apple for reliability in the DJ community, but I just don't see it.

[charred pewter]

yeah, they used to have a feedback form... but now if you manage to send ANYTHING somewhere to apple, it goes into that /dev/null bin

[night girder]

The software of Apple is in decline (my experience).

[charred pewter]

it is, the os especially

[night girder]

The hardware is/was in decline too. Especially the Macbook Pro with less ports, a stupid touchbar they removed etc.

[charred pewter]

they dont even bother to test the os updates anymore

[night girder]

They also removed the magsafe. And then put i back.

Like Apple is making stupid and bad descisions. And I can say that, because they are reverting them. Meaning they realize.

[charred pewter]

the AppleSilicon is very nice hardware though ... its just their stupid design choices to 'make it more streamlined' they take away USEFUL PORTS AND SHIT

i dunno whose bright idea it was to take away magsafe charger ports

[night girder]

Touchbar: removed. USB C charging: replaced to magsafe again. Ports: they adding more ports to the new Macbook Pro's.

And the price keeps going up too!

[charred pewter]

yes, lets use up one of the only two usb ports we have to charge it !!

[gilded helm]

For me the final straw with Apple was years ago. I was dipping my feet into the ecosystem with an iPad mini. One of the first ones. The moment I finally got rid of it, I started getting way less junk email that was addressed to me by name. I've never had that sort of problem on Android. And seeing Apple give in on OS level ads years later, I feel validated.

[night girder]

I know right? It was cool. If you tripped over it. It would disconnect. A good design 👍

[charred pewter]

i mean my iphone only has the one usb port now, and NO minijack so i cant even charge it and plug it into audio equipment !

[night girder]

In school, people who passed by tripped over chargers. With a Macbook pro back then it was no problem.

[charred pewter]

yeah, magSAFE was awesome (IS awesome)

[night girder]

And the touchbar freaking sucks to develop with.

I keep accidently pressing the touchbar while working. I had to disable it.

[charred pewter]

my dads cat, the crazy bonkers animal it is, has CONSTANTLY fell off his desk yanking the cable out of his laptop every time. i couldnt imagine if he had the other kind of laptop ... poor cat would have strangled itself

[gilded helm]

I bet Apple loves all the money they make off of audio dongles.

[night girder]

It's so sensitive it's annoying. And it adds nothing really to the table.

[night girder]

And their hubs.

[gilded helm]

Instructors needing audio dongles is a constant struggle at dance events. They grow legs.

[charred pewter]

apple making their laptops all streamlined.... so that the REST of the desk is this gaggle of dongles and adapters all trying to vie for that one usb port

"this is clean and sleek!"

[night girder]

What were they thinking 🤣

I sometimes really wonder. Everything that made the Macbook Pro special is gone. The backlight. Gone.

[charred pewter]

yeah, the LAPTOP itself is clean and sleek, but HOLY COW MAN

[gilded helm]

If it weren't for the occasional sputter and the lack of windows hello, the Lenovo I have now is basically perfect. Six USB ports, ethernet, pretty much everything you could want.

[charred pewter]

6 ! .... SIX !??!?!??!?

[gilded helm]

3x A, 3x C

[charred pewter]

and dedicated ethernet port ?!?!??!?!?! .... i forget what thats like!

[night girder]

Oh man. Ethernet port. I miss you.

the macbooks are too slim for that

[gilded helm]

100W USB power delivery as an option.

[charred pewter]

my old Snow Leopard macbookpro has dedicated ethernet port, and displayport, and usb ports ... AND a fucking dvd slot

[night girder]

Yeah, but those were bricks

Compared to current generation.

[charred pewter]

its not actually that much of a brick

[night girder]

Apple needs to be slim. Compact. Fuck functionality. It has to look good.

[gilded helm]

Give me more z height if it means more functionality. How I pack my briefcase, changing the z height doesn't really affect anything.

[charred pewter]

maybe 1/8th inch thicker ...

[night girder]

I am not sure if I will buy a new macbook pro tbh.

[charred pewter]

yeah most laptop bags allow for a laptop to be 2 inches thick 😄

i actually can put THREE laptops in my very slim and lightweight carryall

[night girder]

Really considering Linux. And a cheaper laptop. I mean, what is keeping me to macbook atm is, the trackpad is good. I am familiar with the OS. I have some paid apps on it. My IDE. I know how to develop on it. And my music library is on it. 200+ GB.

[gilded helm]

Same with going down to 14" versus the 16" I have now. I'm not going to pack something alongside my laptop in a way where I would get anything out of the extra space if I went to a 14" unless it were so small that I could orient it up.

[charred pewter]

whats keeping me on mac, is that im so used to it and its inputs/interface/behavior for doing my daily job, than trying to move to a pc would wreck my entire workflow for at least a year or two

i'll prolly remain on mac for work stuff until i either retire, or apple ruins the os so much that its devolved into just a thumb-mash kiosk os like tablets

(which its heading there!)

[night girder]

It's going to depend on that generation of macbook pro tbh, for me at least.

[charred pewter]

apple wants the macos to be replaced by an all singular ios that works on all their hardware the same

[gilded helm]

Because that worked really well with Windows 8 🤓

[charred pewter]

ROFL!

[night girder]

I don't really trust Apple's decision making at the moment. Who knows what they will do in the future. And yeah that's true. It's easier to maintain only 1 OS for all devices instead of multiple. Saves some costs too.

[charred pewter]

Apple: "ms was just doing it wrong, we can do wrong better!"

[night girder]

the race to the bottom

Hey soon OS might be replaced by AI. We just talk to it and tell it what to do 😂

[jagged snow]

Windows 8 sucked for desktop, but I actually loved the windows phone interface a lot

[night girder]

I mean, I am just thinking what might be next for the future when it comes to OS. Because it's stale atm.

[gilded helm]

Windows phone was great 😭

[jagged snow]

I just really don't understand the trend for unification between phones and pcs because they're devices we use in fundamentally different ways

[jagged snow]

Rabbit r1 is the future

[night girder]

Current generation of OS aren't making that big of leaps as they used too.

Wow, the menu is in the middle now. Great 👍

Oh, you replaced iTunes with music.app. Great.

[jagged snow]

The new window snapping features are cool, and WSL is such a big selling point that it's the main feature keeping me on windows right now

[night girder]

But don't you ever whish for more?

[jagged snow]

If it weren't for those two semi-recent changes, windows hasn't really done anything major from a competativeness standpoint

[night girder]

Like something really groundbreaking ...

[jagged snow]

So yes, absolutely

[gilded helm]

Operating systems don't need to do anything. For me they solved the problems they were meant to solve years ago.

[jagged snow]

That's a big problem in a lot of the tech space, just like cars had 30 or 40 years ago

Once a technology like the automobile or personal computers has been around for a certain amount of time, it stagnates and there's not really anything you can do about it

[gilded helm]

Holy shit, the over elaborate mixers that are also starting to be made these days are bonkers

[jagged snow]

Computers are to today as cars were to the late 70s/early 80s

[night girder]

That's a good point you make. But with that logic, we might have stopped when we invented the wheel. What I am trying to say is, innovation keeps us going forward. It feels like OS is not developing as quick as it used too. Maybe AI is a gamechanger in the future.

[jagged snow]

AI is only getting scarier for me https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/fake-ai-taylor-swift-images-flood-x-amid-calls-to-criminalize-deepfake-porn/

I've seen a lot more very bad uses of ai than I have positive ones

I can't think of another technology that has been almost exclusively used for at best questionable purposes like AI has so far

[gilded helm]

I'm all for OS level changes if they're not a solution in search of a problem. Which is overwhelmingly the case these days.

[night girder]

Give humanity a new tool like AI and what do they do ... make porn

[jagged snow]

Same thing with vehicles... do I really need a tv's worth of touchscreens in the driver's seat?

[night girder]

I don't understand why people have heated seats in their car. Sorry 🙈

Do you really need to have a warm butt?

[jagged snow]

Oh, let's take away the physical gauges and controls that are better for a lot of purposes
Wait, now we don't have gauges - lets replace them all with one giant screen that can brick your car if it malfunctions

[gilded helm]

Tesla is probably the best case for innovation and anti-innovation. 48 volt is cool. But removing the driver stalks (and everything else they do to shove as much as possible into the center screen) isn't innovative, it's just straight up cost cutting.

[jagged snow]

How cold does it get in belgium?

[night girder]

Not cold at all.

[jagged snow]

Then that explains it

[night girder]

And I am fine with a car having general heat system.

But you can order special seats with heat elements in it.

[jagged snow]

My car doesn't have heated seats, but my mom's does and when it's -20 they sure are nice

[gilded helm]

Seat heaters are a more efficient way to keep warm for an electric car.

[night girder]

And it feels really uncomfortable.

[jagged snow]

That too

[night girder]

Is it? Feels more like a silly innovation, sorry 😒

Just something, because we can.

[jagged snow]

Since it can take more than half an hour for the regular heat system to even get the car above 40 degrees, the seat heaters are a way for you to not freeze your butt off for the first part of the drive

[gilded helm]

I've never used seat heaters in any car that I have, for what it's worth. But I know people who will never get a car without them.

[night girder]

Just eat beans.

[jagged snow]

I'm the type of person that would never even consider buying a new car, so I can't really understand that

[gilded helm]

I'm fine just telling my cars to remote start and heat the whole cabin. Which theoretically wastes energy. But I do it.

[jagged snow]

Even the cold car problem can be mitigated with just wearing more clothing

[night girder]

I don't get it. Is this all really necessary? Isn't it good enough it has four wheels and can drive?

I don't know. I am all for those safety features though.

Now those can be really useful and safe lives.

[jagged snow]

Again, you probably haven't lived somewhere that gets really cold
Remote start is one of the few upgrades that would be really worth it for my 20yo beater
It sucks to have to run outside when it's 10s of degrees below freezing 20 minutes before you want to leave

[gilded helm]

For me the issue is that then you're putting on layers and taking them off again at your destination. I don't like layering up for short durations.

[jagged snow]

Neither do I - hence seat heaters

[night girder]

No, but still people here in Belgium pay for it.

[jagged snow]

But I don't have them so I typically just suffer for the first 15 minutes of the drive

[gilded helm]

How much does it rain in Belgium? I'm in a very rainy climate, so you've also got wetness as a factor.

[night girder]

Irregularly. Sometimes a lot. Sometimes not enough.

[gilded helm]

Literally I've actually been waiting around here for 30 minutes hoping for a break in the rain to get out to my car.

[night girder]

Some features just seem not as essential as others. Let me put it that way.

[jagged snow]

Oh absolutely

[night girder]

But I don't blame anyone for getting them. I just prefer other features. Like I said, safety for example.

[jagged snow]

I am honestly not super worried about safety features in my vehicles

[night girder]

Self driving is also interesting to be honest.

[jagged snow]

I'd love self driving but it would terrify me on the roads around here

[night girder]

If you can really get cars to "talk" to each other. Some sort of automated system.

[jagged snow]

IMO a system like that will have to be phased in with something akin to the bus lanes we already have, but instead it's reserved for networked vehicles

[night girder]

The issue is, the non other car part of the story. Pedestrians etc.

I think getting a system in which cars communicate is possible atm. It's just that cars have to sense other dangers too.

There are rumors Apple is working on a self driving car.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-23/apple-car-ev-set-to-debut-in-2028-with-limited-autonomous-driving

[maiden coyote]

sometimes, your headers are just too tall..

[charred pewter]

thats not what she said i need pizza

[winged valley]

If I want to install redundant PSU's (in an ATX cage) into a tower chassis, how would I connect them?

Do I need to buy some kind of backplane/peripheral to connect them to?

[languid gulch]

that brown PCB

[maiden coyote]

Gpu mounted.

[languid gulch]

got a super short PCIe extender?

btw love the stainless steel heat spreaders on the ram

[winged valley]

Im losing my mind

[jagged snow]

Yeah those look phenomenal

[winged valley]

This supermicro motherboard's manual says it has an SFF-8632 (mini sas) connector on it that counts as either sas or 4 sata ports

So does that mean I can plug a mini-sas to 4x sata adapter cable into it, and then from there plug the 4 cables into a backplane for 2 sas drives (its a weird backplane don't ask), the mobo will register 2 sas drives?

The manual does not specify if that port goes to PCIe, PCH, or a SAS controller

Why is the big boy server world so confusing

[maiden coyote]

I've got one in my amazon cart

[maiden coyote]

I'm not sure. What kind of server you got? Most of the SAS splitters I've seen split to sata

[gilded helm]

Look at this sensational drivel 😛

futureaudiophile.com/what-the-hell-is-a-gan-gallium-nitride-amp-and-why-is-it-changing-the-way-audiophiles-now-see-power-amps/

[winged valley]

Well yes the cable I'm looking at using splits 1 mini-sas to 4x sata, and I want to use that because the backplane in the chassis I'm using has an unconventional configuration where each SAS port corresponds to two SATA ports (or, 6gb/s and sas 12gb/s)

The mobo is the Supermicro X12STH-F

Ugh I still need to figure out how I'm going to set up redundant boot drives on this

This is what I have so far, ignore the notes to my boss

Don't question me on the intel arc btw, boss is a big intel fanboy

[maiden coyote]

Why does it need a gpu?

After the os is setup you shouldn't need a display at all. Everything can be done with ssh or remote desktop

[winged valley]

No integrated graphics and its not an RDP server

The client wants physical access unfortunately

[soft bloom]

today i got reminded of an awesome thought about learning new libraries:

every library that is worth your time has tests that showcase its strong sides and peculiar usecases
If it doesn't have tests for what it advertises/promises to do - it will break on you quickly
if it doesn't have tests that cover peculiar usecases - you will eventually reach a point where it breaks
so just ignore tutorial and go to tests - they will reveal true nature
(also that's why working example are so awesome)

[maiden coyote]

That's fair. so just looking at board I don't see any mention of SAS. only 8x sata

[winged valley]

Its in the manual

There's a minisas connector in the corner

[maiden coyote]

alright. well i can't find sas splitter cables if you need more of it for your backplane ):

[winged valley]

I only need the 2 drives so a single mini-sas to 4x sata splitter cable from startech is fine

If the client needs expansion in the future, we're first upgrading the drives themselves, not adding more (since adding more would actually be more expensive)

[maiden coyote]

everything looks good then

2TB for almost $400 seems a little steep even if they're enterprise drives

[winged valley]

Yeah I'm actually changing that rn

[winged valley]

Alright final build I think

[nimble cargo]

I've become a massive convert to ditching stock CPU coolers. Worth the extra $$$ imo.

I'm also going to be wary of any case touting good cable management. It took longer to figure out how to get the too short cables through their management than it did rebuilding the components.

[twin dew]

None of the ports on that MB support SAS, they just use SAS connector for chipset SATA.

So the SAS drives will not function.

[twin dew]

And Manual does specify it at the page 17, in the System Block Diagram

For SAS support, there would be extra LSI SAS controller chip on the MB and it would be mentioned with exact type etc.

Now Broadcom SAS
For Supermicro:s own selection of RAID and SAS cards:
www.supermicro.com/en/products/storage/cards

The ones marked with red ** are standard form factor.

So for the M.2 RAID, OC-SLG3-2H8M2 or AOC-SLG4-2H8M2 would be probably both better and cheaper.

210e and 225e in Supermicro EU store.

[twin dew]

And you don't need GPU.
The AST2600 works as one.

With just VGA connector.

And it allows for remote management even for BIOS etc.
BMC shows itself as GPU, mouse and keyboard to the system and allows remote management even during POST etc.

For redundant ATX power supply, there are ones that have two replaceable submodules in single ATX form factor.

Ah, you had specced one already. (FSP Twins).

That the BMC chips always act as GPU is why server CPUs and chipsets don't have IGP.
As the MBs always have BMC for HW level remote control.

If not wanting to splurge for SAS controller, and the 10k RPM SAS drives aren't must, you could switch to Exos 7E10 drives with SATA instead of SAS (both available).
But average latency goes from 2.9ms to 4.2ms, and Non-recoverable Read Errors per Bits Read, Max drops from 1 per 10E16 to 1 per 10E15.
Failure rate / AFR / MTBF is same.

And for the "noisy build", enterprise drives are noisier than consumer drives, and 10k drives are even noisier than 7.2k.

And that dual PSU will be loud too probably.

But the Noctuas will probably last longer, so there is that.

And you need PWM fans anyways for fan control, server MBs don't support DC fan control, only PWM.

So you need the PWM variant, not the FLX variant.

Also, for the PSU thing, note the bulge downwards on the MB at the bottom right corner.
That goes in way of the PSU, if the PSU isn't standard length, so check that too.

Way overlength, Standard is 140mm deep, that one is 190mm deep.
But the overhang seems to start only at about 200mm point.
So should fit.

No, the middle row of mounting screws is 155mm from rear one...
So the PSU might not fit if the MB bottom edge and the PSU area are too close.

Just checked, the middle row of screws is 165mm from the back edge of the board.

Ah, not a problem, that is full-ATX case.

[languid gulch]

WOW i think i found a hole in pcpartpicker's options

there's no search options in their case subsection for how many/size of fans

[kind moat]

Well, you can always change the number of holes using either duct tape or a hole saw

[languid gulch]

it'd definitely help with fan/water cooling planning

[wanton orchid]

I'm fan off heavily detailed and mixed cases examples
it allows you to easily adapt/tune/edit it so you can test whatever behavior you want to use/test

and it is reality practically checked

[hardy forge]

welp first time in my life my C: drivce is full and idk wut to do bout it

any suggestions

nvm just gonna delete stuff i dont use
(via apps i installed)

[charred pewter]

either A: delete shit, or B: buy a bigger drive

the old "disk doubler" thigns dont really exist anymore 😉

also, helps to have a D drive for just storing things on

[twin dew]

Included in OS?
You can turn specific files or directories to be compressed on disk if you absolutely want to on NTFS...

[charred pewter]

right, compressing them ... i forget that exists, as its kind of a last resort savings option

sadly movie files dont compress much (if you have a lot of that eating your disk)

handbraking them down more might shave some space, but then you lose quality

[hardy forge]

help

[charred pewter]

ouch

how much is in your budget to spend?

[twin dew]

Right-click the drive, select properties, select Disk Cleanup.
Switch it to Admin mode.

Select to cleanup:
"Windows Update Cleanup"
"Temporary files"
And possibly the other options if you want to.

[hardy forge]

i dont got that option

also tempory files is empty

[hardy forge]

ye athat done nothing

[twin dew]

The OS doesn't really work properly when the drive is absolutely full.

[hardy forge]

im clearing out some stuff

[twin dew]

Contents of "C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download" are safe to delete for example.
Same for "C:\Windows\Temp"

[hardy forge]

only 2.5 gig space free rn

im in a bit of a panic aint gonna lie

[twin dew]

Try to run that Clean up system files now?

[hardy forge]

already did

it would help if the recyling bin was empty 😅 thats apart of the c drive

[twin dew]

Why don't you empty it then?

[hardy forge]

cause im dumb and thinking delete button is perma delete 😅

[twin dew]

And this can help seeing what is using the drive, but don't go deleting things if you don't know what they are:
windirstat.net/

[hardy forge]

soo autodesk and steam and oculus are on the C drive but the game for steam are on my other drive

[hardy forge]

Great my gpu wont update

Nvm it updated

[surreal sun]

My GPU is hitting 74 degress when playing games Is that bad?! And, If so how should i fix this?

[hardy forge]

Thats normal im sure depends on what ur cooling with

[twin dew]

Pretty low temperature for GPU.

[charred pewter]

my 3080 would sit at 83 almost always in games... my 4080 has barely gone above 60 (even in cyberpunk)

so "it depends on the gpu" ??

[winged valley]

I didnt know if BMC would work as host graphics

[twin dew]

No real 3D capability, but fine for normal OS desktop.

[winged valley]

Also those noctuas are pwm

Also one other thing you kinda confused me

[twin dew]

Just making sure, as you didn't specify and the whole URL wasn't visible that I could have checked.

[twin dew]

The PSU length thing was misunderstanding as I thought the case was Micro-ATX max.

[winged valley]

Nono my phone died as i sent that lol

The thing that confused me is

At one point you said the MB doesn't have a SAS controller, then right after you said the manual says there is one

So do I need to buy a SAS controller or no?

[twin dew]

I meant the manual would say if there was one, and there isn't.

[winged valley]

Oh

[twin dew]

None of the Supermicro boards for that CPU line have.

[winged valley]

So if I used thishttps://www.newegg.com/lsi-megaraid-sas-9361-8i-sata-sas/p/N82E16816118230

[twin dew]

Example of board with SAS controller on the MB:
www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/x13set-gc

Not directly related, but to show how it would be marked in the Supermicro specs.

[winged valley]

And plugged in a 4x sata splitter cable from it into the weird backplane, it would register 2 SAS drives?

[winged valley]

gotcha

[twin dew]

Yes, should.

[winged valley]

Epic

thank you

[twin dew]

AOC-S3108L-H8iR would be the equivalent Supermicro card.
With AOC-S3008L-L8i step down.
But both are more expensive.

As in same card, just different name and one string changed in the firmware.

Whops, the last might not be true, mixed with another manufacturer.
The card is physically identical, but the firmware might be different.

[twin dew]

Would suggest getting second cable at same time, and plugging the other controller port too.
As that card has 2 connectors and 8 SAS ports.

Ah, wrong cable.
SFF-8643 needed, not SFF-8632 for the specific card.

[twin dew]

@winged valley

Ah, you just had written wrong on the explanation part.

SAS43SAT1M is right.

Silverstone SST-CPS05 would be shorter equivalent for example.

Supermicro has some, Delock has some etc.

[surreal sun]

also question. is 75C for my AMD RYZEN 5 7600 to hot?! I just am tryna make sure my temps are safe and ok.

[winged valley]

75C is fine under load but it sounds like you could use a better cooler

[twin dew]

No, thermal throttle is at 95C and unsafe is after 105C.

[twin dew]

Doesn't help really.
The limiter is silicon heat transfer.

[winged valley]

Fair

[twin dew]

I can get 40+C temperature difference between neighboring cores when one is loaded and one is not.

@winged valley
I would really suggest replacing that Highpoint NVMe RAID card (With Marvell controller) with the Supermicro equivalent with LSI/Broadcom chip.

[winged valley]

Not doing virtualization

[twin dew]

Just for controller & firmware quality.

And those are cheaper at the same source you get the RAM from.

[winged valley]

Is it hardware raid tho

[twin dew]

Yes.

The PCIe 3.0 version is with Broadcom SAS3408 controller
www.supermicro.com/en/products/accessories/addon/AOC-SLG3-2H8M2.php

And the 4.0 version is with Broadcom SAS 3808 controller.
www.supermicro.com/en/products/accessories/addon/AOC-SLG4-2H8M2.php

High end tri-mode (SATA, SAS, NVMe) RAID controllers, just wired to be just for two NVMe drives.

Broadcom/LSI MegaRAID 9540-8i is the "cheap" end RAID card on the same controller as that PCIe 4.0 version.

[winged valley]

gotcha

[twin dew]

Hmm... weird.
The US store doesn't list the Supermicro RAID cards...
EU store does...

Just as configuration options for specific servers.

They will sell it, but need to ask.

[twin dew]

Same with the MB, buying direct.
Or asking who is the "local" partner to buy from.

[surreal sun]

yeah, i plan to get a AIO hopefully soon. to keep it cooler

[twin dew]

@winged valley So check www.supermicro.com/en/wheretobuy to find closest partner to contact?
To get all the Supermicro parts from one place?

Needs the fixed mounting for the CPU.
The center isn't getting contact as the CPU is bent by the bad Intel stock mechanism.

LGA1700 Contact Frame, to replace the stock Integrated Loading Mechanism

Contact Frame / Bending Corrector Frame

Thermal Grizzlys version is expensive and pain in the ass install, meant for extreme overclockers who want to tune the screw tightness.
Thermalright and other "copies" are "just tighten completely" and easier, and good enough,.

Should AFAIK, and that sounds more like that contact problem from bent IHS.

Which happens because of the cheap mounting thingie that only presses down on middle of two sides of the CPU.
So the MB side pins force the far ends of the CPU up, bending both the CPU substrate and the IHS.

Causing bad contact at the center of the IHS, if the cooler isn't either bowed out at that point, or have insane mounting pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysb25vsNBQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYU1OskbY-Q

[night girder]

Didn't we had a talk about it a few weeks ago?

Oh I see. I though it was new videos. 1Y old.

[wanton orchid]

wasn't it months ago ?

why is so many cpu/socket getting surface/pressure problems at the same year

or maybe I was just unaware of it on older platforms ?

[olive surge]

how tf do i fix this

[final otter]

update your graphical drivers

[olive surge]

how tf do i do that

[final otter]

in the error message, follow the link

[olive surge]

yea and from there i have no clue what to do

i dont really know what my computer geforce or anything is

[final otter]

it's in your error message xD

[olive surge]

indeed

[final otter]

I only have copy what you get 😂

[olive surge]

when i go to it i dont know what to do

[night girder]

download the driver and install it.

Do you have windows 10? or 11?

[olive surge]

ifk

i dont know to be honest

oh also i dont have enough space is there a way i could do it from my hard drive

[final otter]

Right click on your start menu, click on system and see your windows in "Windows spécification"

[olive surge]

like i have a hard drive is there a way i can download it onto that

[night girder]

look at screenshot. It asks for system.

just select the correct OS. Download it and install. There is also Nvidia geforce, which will update the drivers for you.

[olive surge]

yes i understand that part no but me no have no space on my external drive which is why im asking if i can change it to my storage unit which im trying but it still says it dont work

[night girder]

/www.nvidia.com/fr-be/geforce/geforce-experience/download/

[final otter]

you can do it via geforce experience

(if you have it)

[night girder]

you need to make some space to install it anyway.

Check this out: #off-topic-tech message

[olive surge]

says page not found

[final otter]

... remove the first /

[night girder]

add https, can't copy urls here unless they are whitelisted 😦

[olive surge]

omfg i swear the god

[night girder]

I wouldn't fuck with it and just select right OS.

[olive surge]

still nothing

[night girder]

Beter safe than sorry.

https://www.nvidia.com/fr-be/geforce/geforce-experience/

[olive surge]

couldnt find the page im getting honestly really fucking frustrating

[night girder]

Try it now 🙂

[olive surge]

homie i dont know where your getting these links but it just takes me to like a spanish version of it and says page not foumd

[final otter]

I'm belgian to, anything to say ? 😋

[night girder]

What you on about?

[olive surge]

thats not english

[final otter]

seriously ?

[olive surge]

bro i know nothing about fucking computers alright im just trying to play this with my boyfriend but all the suddenly the game says graphics error and cant update its damn self

[final otter]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/geforce-experience/

and you click on "Download now"

[olive surge]

now i gotta download some sketchy ass link onto my computer to update a damn grahpics thing

[night girder]

Based on this screenshot, I though you spoke french.

My bad. Was confused 😛

[final otter]

and based on your link, you to :3

[night girder]

it's annoying, whenever I click the url, it switches to fr-be 😂

[olive surge]

see but when i click download it just downloads onto my main drive not my storage unit and so when it asks to extract the package it just goes to my main drive on my pc and i dont have space for it.

[final otter]

on the bottom of the website, you can change the region

[night girder]

Yeah, no it doesn't work. I tried 😂

It keeps switching back to fr-be. It's cursed.

Probably has to do with the fact I disabled cookies 🤔

[final otter]

you can launch it from your external hard drive. Just install GeForce Experience

[night girder]

I am afraid that if they don't have enough space, they cannot even install it. We'll see.

[olive surge]

😊🔫

the issue im having my guy is that my internal storage is full. ive asked many times if i can change input to my god damn storage unit. not where to download it. not how to download it. not what to download. just if i can change the damn input.

[final otter]

as long the program was install on a drive, it can launch the program and install the driver

angel, the most easy way to resolve the problem is to update the graphics driver. Find a way to get around 650mb of space

after that, install the driver with this link : /www.nvidia.fr/Download/driverResults.aspx/218113/en-us (add https:/ at the start of the link); click on download

when it's dowload, go on your dowload folder and install it

[olive surge]

i got it

[final otter]

🙂

[stray badger]

Ah yes, sketchy, the official NVidia website

[charred pewter]

who was it that suggested that the HD OTA signal i was getting on a channel was flipping a bit and getting the audio off a secondary channel?

i did a full channel refresh/rescan, and it recorded Ask This Old House again and the audio was no longer bob ross 😄 it was correct

so that musta been the issue ... it was just ever out of sync and needed a rescan

[maiden coyote]

Download more storage?

Move your steam libary to a different drive.. install steam on a different drive too... disable the pagefile

If you can still even disable the page file on windows

[winged valley]

You can

Why wouldn't you be able to?

[winged valley]

Okay guys real talk

Do I use my employer's credentials to buy a 200TB NVMe from kioxia and put it in my laptop

Or do I act like a normal person and get a 4tb sabrent rocket

Jokes aside, I'm debating whether or not I want to do the VRAM upgrade on my laptop

GA107 does support 8GB of VRAM, but there aren't really any numbers out there that quantify what the performance impact on a laptop 3050ti is between 4g and 8g

And according to passmark, the mobile 3050 6G has about 200 more points than the mobile 3050ti (4G) which is not a lot at all

I do still want to do my RAM upgrade though, but MSI in their infinite wisdom put 4 sets of pads for RAM instead of 8 on the board, and it's LPDDR5

(which makes it $80-100 to buy the chips from a reasonable seller)

[jagged snow]

This isn't the kind of project you do for the performance boost, you do it because you want to be able to say you doubled the vram of your 3050m

[charred pewter]

like lapping your heatsink 😄 really doesnt do much in the grand scheme of things

[jagged snow]

Nope, may as well go direct die at that point

[charred pewter]

but it makes a shiney mirror finish! bragging rights! LOL

[winged valley]

fair lol

I've considered going direct die but I'd only do that with custom wwatercooling on a 6.0GHZ build

Which I do not have the money or luck to pull off

Also, with more and more games choosing DLSS over FSR, and FSR being well behind DLSS, do you guys see yourselve's going NVidia or AMD for whatever your future upgrade is?

[jagged snow]

I'm still planning to go with and, but I won't know for sure until the hardware is avaliable

Fsr is close enough to dlss that I can't tell the difference, especially at high starting resolutions

[winged valley]

I'm curious how much NVidia will refine frame generation

Because that has potential to be huge

Ofc they aren't gonna allow it to make flagship cards obsolete compared to the mid rangers, but still

[twin dew]

Size getting bigger with same cheap mounting.
Intel had the same issue for long time, that their IHS was often concave, and most cooler bottoms are convex for that reason.
But the LGA1700 bought much more of that.

AMD bypassed the issue with that very thick IHS to make the CPU rigid enough to not bend.

And AM4 didn't have the issue, as it was still with pins on the CPU.
The issue is just when the MB socket has spring force pins pushing up on the CPU.

[wanton orchid]

I see
so when the cpu ihs is concave it push the center part too high up the corners and fail by actually bending internal parts and/or misalign the socket pins a bit (which I think mechanically is not enough for problems but maybe electrically it does have impact on signals quality)

[twin dew]

No, center of the IHS is too low.

As the mounting pushes the CPU at middle, and the two outer edges without mounting fingers get pushed up by the pins.

The signal is fine, just that it causes bad thermal transfer at center of the IHS.

As the cooler doesn't really contact the IHS directly, only with paste.

Pressure between IHS and cooler, tested with pressure sensitive paper/film.

[edgy hazel]

i was hungy

[twin dew]

LGA1700 CPU after some time in use:

The IHS side is the other way, but the pic is bad.

[wanton orchid]

so you reversed concave and convex I guess
the ihs is convex and so the coolers are concave a bit
and it over pressure at center then

or that last pick is miss leading and you reversed in the last message

if it's the edge that are going up in the socket
then it's center that get pressure
and the ihs is convex

up to a point it gets so bad the ihs is reverting itself loosing center

meaning the center of the ihs is now concave under pressure

anyway that's bad that's obvious

[languid gulch]

i wonder if some of that flexible PCB tech could be put into CPUs to avoid the issue altogether

[twin dew]

Concave is with center deeper, convex is with center bulge.

[wanton orchid]

would be even worse
you want pressure
anything underpressure will go the way it takes less place possible
you want ihs to full contact
you want socket pins to get even pressure

[wanton orchid]

exactly
and with center bulge more pressure in center
with center deeper less pressure in center

center buldge : edge go up
center deeper : center go up

[twin dew]

And the IHS is concave.
And the cooler needs to be convex enough.

As the edges have been pushed up.
So the socket side in that pic is convex, bulging out at center.
But the IHS is opposite, with edges higher than center.

So with concave IHS, and straight cooler coldplate, no center contact.

[wanton orchid]

that pic and that last message is contradicting the other things

[wanton orchid]

that yes I get

[twin dew]

The IHS is down, socket contact surface is top.

[wanton orchid]

but on the pic the cpu is convex on the socket side

[wanton orchid]

maybe it's just a matter of how we visualize mounting direction

I see socket floor, cpu pressured down to the socket

so the center goes up

but then the cpu must be concave not convex

unless it is also convex socket side from the start

which is stupid bad

[twin dew]

The pins on the MB side push the CPU up.
The two fingers don't allow the center to go up, but the near and far edges can.

[wanton orchid]

so socket finger pressure >> cooler pressure ??

[twin dew]

And the Intel IHS isn't rigid enough to not allow the bending from the unopposed force on the far edges.

[twin dew]

The force those pins cause is insane.

[wanton orchid]

so is the two socket fingers

ok

[twin dew]

Reason for the long lever to close that ILM.
To give you enough leverage to do it against the pins.

[wanton orchid]

the reason it was so hard to clarify

its both concave and convex

[twin dew]

Doesn't really go up with the blue direction much.
Center stays put, the outer sides go up on the red direction, causing that concave form.

[twin dew]

The white part is not enough pressure to activate the material.
With the specific cooler used, which is little convex.

In both directions.

Because the issue has been there with Intel CPUs for long time for reason or other.
So the coolers have compensated with non-flat coldplates.

[wanton orchid]

the part I was confused about, is I would not say the ihs is concave then
I would just say the whole cpu is

[twin dew]

Just that LGA1700 has the issue at completely new level.

And AMD "fixed" it by making insane thick IHS to make it rigid enough.

[wanton orchid]

it's also fixing some cooler bending too, so its good they are a bit convex
but yea, cpu bending is definetly no good

[twin dew]

And the larger server and workstation sockets use completely different CPU mounting, that needs torque screwdrivers.
And is close to the aftermarket fix thingies for LGA1700.

[wanton orchid]

the backplate should be convex too for maximum cooler pressure support, but the cpu, na

I dont get why the mounting use such fingers, instead of a full frame

[twin dew]

Cheap.

And easy to use.

[wanton orchid]

they assume the frame is the job of the cpu ihs ?

[twin dew]

Like I said, the larger sockets use frames, but need torque drivers to install the CPU.

Which is no-go for consumer socket.

[wanton orchid]

you could use fingers onto a frame

like it's supposed to work with ihs

but better locking one as there is no cooling on it

[twin dew]

Some kind of more complex current type with two levers and more fingers would probably work, but would have cost more.

In 2010 Intel specced that with LGA1366 the cooler must not push down with more than 266N on the IHS.
Trying to find the LGA1700 physical spec.

[wanton orchid]

I mean

[twin dew]

Yeah, as I remembered, much higher.
The total with ILM & cooler should be between 534N and 1068N.

Static force.

So 50-100kg equivalent force on the IHS total.

[wanton orchid]

I'm wondering if mounting/unmounting cycles make the cpu go lower and lower now
as the pins may have enough force to get inside the cpu connectors a bit

or are cpu connectors hard

[twin dew]

Force per pin is tiny, remember there are 1700 to spread that load around.

So on that max load, about 0.6N per pin.

[wanton orchid]

I was thinking maybe enough to scrtch but yea 0.6N is not enough

or yes it is enough, wait

0.6 is still a lot for a tiny pin

[twin dew]

But with LGA1700, Intel upped the spec on how hard the cooler should push on the CPU way up compared to old spec.
So the coolers would need new springs etc. to actually fulfill the spec.

[wanton orchid]

ok, maybe just so not enough
may be why 1000N is maximum spec

maybe there should be an agreement on cooler pressure with cooler manufacturers

because I'm all for high pressure cooler until it requires them to thicken the actual coldplate surface

coldplate supported shape for normalized average pressure should also be standardized

[twin dew]

Nah, meant that the mounting hardware controlling the pressure so that you cannot overtighten the cooler to break the MB, socket and CPU is too flexible for the LGA1700.
And if you fulfill the LGA1700 spec, then you break the older stuff.

[wanton orchid]

I mean why not go all the way up with the spec
and les cooler manufacturer adapter frames do the job for other specs

so cooler manufacturer can do bare plates that support maximum, and then just adapt it

easier to go lower pressure than to go higher pressure

[wanton orchid]

a ok maximum for manufacturers
from which the cpus socket etc.. specs can calculate

so everyone agree to how high it can get

in the end of the day I feel like it's just bad communication

which ends up in bad workarounds

[twin dew]

But if the LGA1366 was 266N max for cooler static pressure, IIRC the LGA1700 wanted minimum of 300+N from the cooler.
But cannot confirm right now.

[languid gulch]

screw it, they should just start doing SoC CPUs for desktops

[wanton orchid]

apus are kind of that wdym

[languid gulch]

SoC to the mobo

[twin dew]

AMD APUs can work as SOCs, they don't need chipset.

And there are such MBs with integrated CPUs without chipset.

[languid gulch]

it'd at least take care of the warping issues

[cobalt ivy]

Will the game ever get Frame generation support? I've used FSR3 mod and its working well -except the UI part. it will fix CPU & GPU bottleneck for people.

[dire igloo]

GPU yes. But it can't make the CPU simulate physics faster

framegen uses already rendered frames and inserts extra ones

that makes me wonder: doesn't framegen solve neither bottleneck issue? it'll give you extra frames but it won't replace a GPU or CPU upgrade

[charred pewter]

that was some discussion to read through lol

and yes, i noticed some cooling efficiencies when i installed a cpu frame and got rid of the boincey clip

[lavish ice]

the point of an upgrade is to get extra frames?

[twin dew]

Which means what, if the actual FPS goes down from the extra CPU load?

[charred pewter]

wouldnt framegen allow people to get a bit more life out of their hardware before feeling like upgrading?

[dire igloo]

If you're on a Core 2 Duo and a 3060, upgrading to a 4090 won't increase your FPS.
Same thing with a Ryzen 5600 and a GT 710, upgrading to a Ryzen 7800X3D won't increase your FPS either.

My point was: you bottleneck still persists but framegen just adds extra fps. It uses rendered frames to generate new ones, so whatever limits the rendering of frames will limit the generation of new ones too.

[lavish ice]

if it's useless then why does it exist?

[twin dew]

Marketing.

[charred pewter]

because its not always useless

[dire igloo]

moar fps = moar betterer

disregarding the fact it adds latency and doesn't actually add rendered frames

[lavish ice]

so it can help to get more fps so you don't need to upgrade

[twin dew]

It raises the number, but doesn't give extra performance.

[charred pewter]

its just like a third wheel is useless on a bicycle ... but its there to be helpful sometimes

[lavish ice]

but the number is what i want so it's smooth

[dire igloo]

the number is bogus tho

cuz it's the same amount of rendered frames

[lavish ice]

no you get extra generated ones

i've been told

[dire igloo]

those are generated, not rendered

[charred pewter]

rendered vs generated

[dire igloo]

there's no new physics calculations going on

[lavish ice]

so it's more smooth

[dire igloo]

it's not

[lavish ice]

but my eyes see frames not physics

[twin dew]

In one way, yes.
In another way, no.

[charred pewter]

its not like [good] motion blur

[dire igloo]

if frame gen get you from 90fps to 120fps, your physics still runs at 90fps, so every interaction you have with the game will run at 90fps

[lavish ice]

In the cinema they showed each SAME frame twice so they get 48 instead of 24

[dire igloo]

cinema uses motion blur tho

and other tricks to make motion appear smooth

[twin dew]

And they don't really.

[charred pewter]

its why films can seem much nicer to 'watch' than a game 'playing' at 48 fps

[dire igloo]

you don't need to interact with a movie anyway

you just watch it and hear it

[lavish ice]

so FSR3 is just another (good) trick?

[twin dew]

And displaying same frame twice is just about getting enough light, it doesn't increase smoothness.

[dire igloo]

with a game, you need to do inputs, react to changes to the environment

[dire igloo]

FSR isn't Framegen

FSR is upscaling

like DLSS

[lavish ice]

whats the other called

[dire igloo]

XeSS?

[charred pewter]

i'd imagine if you could use a mouse to change viewing angle during a film... it would feel very aweful

[dire igloo]

Intel's upscaling tech

but framegen isn't upscaling

[charred pewter]

Intels Sex :S

[lavish ice]

FSR3 has framegen with Fluid Motion Frames

[twin dew]

AMD Fluid Motion Frames.
Is the answer to DLSS-FG (Frame Gen)

FSR and FMF are separate.

Like DLSS upscaling and DLSS FG are separate, even when Nvidia groups them under same marketing label.

Separate DLLs, separate implementation.

[charred pewter]

my esc key is broken... i keep hitting it, but no character is being entered in the input box ... what gives

[charred pewter]

i think so

my escape key is as big as my tab key, so you think it would be useful on mac... but macos is like 'whats the point of an escape key? that sounds so windows'

[astral jay]

Hi people. I hope I'm on the right channel here. My laptop routinely overheats and I'm looking to buy a good laptop cooler (fan) for it, however I don't know how to choose one. I would like some advice on this matter.

[twin dew]

For a cooling base to work, the fans would need to be in similar position and moving air in same direction as the laptops own fans.
So there isn't generic recommendation.

[jagged snow]

Also, have you cleaned the laptop?

[twin dew]

Yup, cleaning the internal heatsinks is the first thing to try.

[astral jay]

I'll make sure to do that

[twin dew]

If the problem hasn't been there since the laptop was new, it is either dust, paste, or both.

[astral jay]

Okay, so I'll try giving it a good clean. If that doesn't fix it I'll come back here 🙂

[visual tree]

I wonder how long until someone breaks the record

My first phone was sony ericsson t10s

I also owned k750i

I'm not sure where my old phones are 😅

We are shutting down 3G in early 2025 but 2G will still be available

[twin dew]

evolution

And then marketers went with 5G for minor improvement cycle to LTE.

[visual tree]

Didn't have anything that would be considered crazy

[twin dew]

N-gage (cheapest way to get cellular connectivity for laptop, crappy as phone), E90 Communicator.

N-gage was bought for cheap after the second version was already out.

[visual tree]

I used to flash custom ROM's on my older phones (including cyanogenmod)

Back in the days when HTC used to make better phones (had HTC desire)

Today, their phones are...meh...

I remember when my mother bought a nokia with windows phone. I wanted to smash that phone in the wall so badly....

I will never understand why nokia decided to go with windows phone instead of android

[edgy hazel]

windows phones were the bomb. MS just used low spec phones and gave up way before it could get any real footing

[charred pewter]

yeah same

win11 start menu i dont even bother using at all anymore unless i have too ... not like win10 where i had nice panel setup of utility apps in tiles i could quickly get too (since all games are handled as desktop shortcuts thanks steam lol)

now i have all my 'utility' apps stuck to the left side taskbar pinned cause i cant be arsed to go into the start menu 😄

[charred pewter]

poopification of ms ui

[gilded helm]

Does anyone know how a Monster HDMI 1.3 cable might hold up in 2024? It's new in box for $6 in a thrift store, and I kind of want to buy it just for the hell of it. What are the odds that it can do 4K60?

[gilded helm]

I did get a $3 and $4 microphone. It'll be amusing to test those out, and the cables that came with them. One is XLR to 1/4”, the other is XLR to 1/8". The XLR ends are plastic, not metal. The fit is hilariously bad compared to the metal that I'm used to.

[jagged snow]

Odds are low

[gilded helm]

It's hilarious how light the two microphones feel, in terms of literal weight.

But if they work they will be suitable backup devices

[charred pewter]

didnt "Monster" cables kind of flop ten years ago?

people finally realized all they were selling was thicker plastic to make them feel hefty 😄

[gilded helm]

They still clutter my Amazon results from time to time

Though maybe it's old stock

I will say, even if that brand specifically is dead, premium overpriced cables are definitely still a thing, I promise you. I have watched hilariously expensive cables be sold at a local store that makes them. And they will even admit on the down low that it's all bullshit.

[charred pewter]

heh yeah

[sterile ravine]

Hello is there anyone here that could possibly help me with the server side of the game I made a dedicated server but it’s set to private and when I change it to friends only in the session settings to copy the game if it changes back to private and will not allow me to copy the game id to send to my friends

[jagged snow]

Hey, wrong channel
But those ingame settings have nothing to do with dedicated servers, if your friends want to join they need to use the server IP. Check out the guide on the wiki at https://satisfactory.wiki.gg

[sterile ravine]

Thanks

[twin dew]

And HDMI 1.3 cable doesn't exist.
There is Standard Speed, High-Speed, etc.
So you cannot know what it actually is.
High-Speed officially supports up to 4k@30Hz, and then you need Premium High-Speed or Ultra-High Speed for 4k@60Hz.

And those two later ones only came in HDMI 2.0 spec or later.

[gilded helm]

I recall people mentioning cables from '1.3 era' might work for 4k 60Hz, or is that a tall tale?

Depending on whether they're 'good enough' or somesuch.

[twin dew]

But the "HDMI 1.3" might be High-Speed one.
And yes, the older cables might be able to do more than their official spec.

Or it might not even do what the High-Speed spec calls for, as it isn't marked as such.

[gilded helm]

I might have chanced it, but they were also fairly short. Which at least would increase the odds of them doing 4k

[twin dew]

And it being Monster cable decreases it 😅

[charred pewter]

i know! ... hdmi cables in paralelle! connect two cables from device to tv and it would have the bandwidth!

[twin dew]

That has been used in some TVs and monitors at least with DisplayPort.
With the thingie then showing up as two separate monitors to OS, each half height or half width.

[charred pewter]

ohreally

[twin dew]

In early 4K stuff.

When neither HDMI or DP had enough bandwidth yet.

[charred pewter]

interesting

[tough owl]

gotta love jank city

You can daisychain displays iirc with thunderbolt

[jagged snow]

You can do a single display over either, but I think only thunderbolt has the capability to power multiple

[tough owl]

www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000128707/how-to-daisy-chain-multiple-monitors-using-displayport-multi-stream-transport-mst

you can daisychain DP with MST

[twin dew]

That is the opposite direction.

Using one output for multiple monitors if the total bandwidth need is below the single ports maximum.

[tough owl]

Yea, still a thing you can do, I havent seen anyone use it sadly

probably because most monitors don't support it

[twin dew]

I have MST hub for example.

To split single USB-C DP port to two normal ones.

[tough owl]

Apple lets you use MST iirc

[twin dew]

No, just Thunderbolt functionality.
But not standard DP MST functionality.

[tough owl]

Yea just looked 🤣

also HDMI can carry ethernet signals

[twin dew]

Which no-one uses.
But ARC uses the same extra pin.

[tough owl]

Isnt the max transmission speed with ethernet over hdmi gigabit only?

[twin dew]

That was the theory, but no-one bought out media devices with actual support.

No, DP supports audio from source to display.

[charred pewter]

i'll be honest i never understand the hdmi cables listed "with internet" ...

[twin dew]

ARC is in other direction, from display to source.

[tough owl]

likely because wifi took over

[twin dew]

Because that is the official name in the spec.

And you need cable with that spec, and not the base one if you want ARC support.

[charred pewter]

ah

so, HDMI+Internet is HDMI+ARC

[twin dew]

HDMI cables have 4 speed grades now, and for three first ones there is optional "with Ethernet" extra that adds one more pin connection.
That is needed for both the HDMI+Ethernet, and HDMI+ARC.

Ultra-Speed has that as mandatory.

[charred pewter]

aaaand all of them all plug into the same ports ..... no change in port size/shape ...

[tough owl]

usb-c is just as bad in that regard 🤣

[charred pewter]

grabs hdmi cable "why doesnt this work, it plugs in!"

[twin dew]

Just changes to spec on how high frequency the cable has to support.
And that extra pin that needs to be connected for the ARC, which was unused in original spec.

[charred pewter]

yeah, usb-c is now doing so many different things but all plugging in the same slot

reverse-charging even

"do not plug a standard usb-c cable in this port!" ... wait what?

[tough owl]

USB and HDMI forum make the worst decisions when it comes to making new standards

I swear no one over there sanity checks them

and wifi naming is getting pretty bad too now

in the past like 4 years we got 6, 6e, and 7

don't let people know that wifi 8 is getting mmWave support, they'll go crazy

[twin dew]

6 is AX, 6e is AX with 6GHz bands and not just 2.4 and 5GHz.

[twin dew]

We already had that earlier, 802.11ad on 60GHz band.

[tough owl]

yea but how many routers use it

like two?

wifi 33

[twin dew]

It was specialist thing.
Because it doesn't go through ANY obstacles.

Some VR sets use/used it for wireless mode.

[tough owl]

Makes sense given how much bandwidth is has

[charred pewter]

usb-c ... looks like an oval to me, so not called usb-o

[twin dew]

We had A and B connectors, so C was next.

[tough owl]

usb D when

I dunno VR is cool but I feel like theres no real usecase that can be integrated into our lives like phones and laptops have been

802.11ay is interesting

all of this is interesting, especially Li-Fi

[twin dew]

Because 802.11 just means IEEE specced wireless network tech.
And they just use next letter for each new spec.
from a, to z, to aa, to az, to ba etc.

[tough owl]

802.11zz cant wait

[twin dew]

802.11aaah!

802.11argh?

[tough owl]

I could see it

[twin dew]

Yes?

Yes?
Point-to-Point laser links are a thing.

[tough owl]

wouldn't it be extremly hard to keep them inline?

[twin dew]

Yes, because it gets affected badly from rain, snow, fog etc.

And wind if it moves the units, and so on.

[tough owl]

I know cell towers operate point to point from each other out in remote regions where they cant get a direct fiber connection to it

[jagged snow]

Not in space, or at least not as much
Starlink uses optical for satellite-to-satellite communication

[tough owl]

makes sense that it can do that, but wouldn't space debris effect it?

[jagged snow]

In theory yes, but in practice LEO is still very very empty as a percentage

[twin dew]

We wouldn't have satellites left in orbit if there was enough debris to cause issues to laser links in space...

[jagged snow]

And starlink itself accounts for a significant percentage of the man-made mass in orbit currently

With proper deorbit practices we can hope that never becomes an issue

[tough owl]

hopefully, but will that happen? we can only hope

[jagged snow]

It already is

[tough owl]

Has t-moible rolled out their starlink connectivity with phones in places where theres no traditional cell towers?

I know that was a thing they said was coming but I havent seen anything come of it

[jagged snow]

Not yet
There are only 6 sattelites that support it currently

[tough owl]

ah so its on starlink to get that working, not tmobile

[jagged snow]

Yup

It's pretty much just standard LTE connection with the sattelite doing all the heavy lifting to make it work from LEO

[tough owl]

thats gotta be a powerful radio to get LTE from low earth orbit down to earth

[jagged snow]

It's not hard to get a signal to the phone on the ground, but trying to receive something transmitted from a handset in LEO is where the real challenge arises

[twin dew]

Or just very slow link.

[jagged snow]

Which this is

[jagged snow]

Currently all clients in the entire coverage area of the satellite share less than 1mbps

[tough owl]

yea its not meant to give you 4k youtube video playback, but enough to contact someone in event of emergencies

[jagged snow]

So just enough to send text messages

volte support supposedly coming in about 5 years