off-topic-tech

[charred pewter]

of course i still need to swap it onto the new motherboard/cpu/ram .... but just testing it out on an old rig shows its running pretty cool at near 100% utilization

i absolutely love this little gadget LOL ... i dont care if its truly accurate against real world wind speeds ... but its hella useful in comparing differences between different setups/fans/boxes n shit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NRSYNW2 ..... it even shed some light on something where I had thought one way was 'more flow' vs another way!

spent a couple days swapping fans, and measuring, and swapping, and adjusting bios speeds, and measuring ....... got the right combo which gives me the most air flow at the same audible noise as other combos. and strangely, NONE of my Noctua fans were good =p ended up on a set of 6 arctic p14s

[obtuse geyser]

That is one big boy.
Is that an pc case, or an AC unit?? 👀

Also, I spot a user of an actual physical pciex sound card!

[charred pewter]

SBZ yes, its been great for a decade now lol

still sounds better than onboard 😉

and also ... yes, my "pc case" is basically an old printer drawer, refactored, and sealed, with an intake filter and 6 exhaust fans which keep the entire thing clean and cool .... many years of tweaks LOL

i guess it does resemble an HVAC A/C unit....

[obtuse geyser]

that takes a lot more space than needed, but interesting idea.

I mean, basically a desk with built-in pc

just dont shake it too much

[charred pewter]

its a pretty heavy desk... not much moves

and yes, it may take a lot more space, BUT ... it really cuts down on noise generated by internal fasn like on the cpu and gpu itself

when closed, i can only hear the cpu fans when its on full tilt (which is rare unless im running p95)

[edgy hazel]

do the fans even do anything with the filter? they look like that'd just suck air from everywhere but that

it looks way too thick for fans

[charred pewter]

those two fans in the front are only there to direct some flow backwards over the ram/front of gpu... they dont 'suck' from the filter

its why they 'float' forward on the bracket

see, cool air is being pulled in from the whole filter (from the fans in the back of the desk cubby)... so then those two small fans up front, just kindly 'direct' that fresh cool air in two areas heading towards the back

[sharp oasis]

Why do I like the look of the phanteks NV5

Tho I'd need a much nicer gpu

Bc my Lil dual slot card will be so underwhelming in a NV5

[night girder]

or these temps with "case" (drawer?) closed or open?

[sharp oasis]

I'm thinking of buying this case. In the sample pics it shows a custom water loop. Should I prolly see if I could invest in it

[dire igloo]

Rough airflow

[sharp oasis]

Yeah it was noted it's better suited for waterloops by the look of it

[dire igloo]

Even those need air to go through the rads

It's a nice unique style tho

[sharp oasis]

It should have some airflow

[dire igloo]

You can brute force the lack of proper ventilation

[sharp oasis]

I could push pull the rads to keep air going

[dire igloo]

Small slits around the glass

[sharp oasis]

Mabey change that front glass to a mesh of possible

As that seems super restrictive

[dire igloo]

If it allows you to do that

[sharp oasis]

If

Might have to brute force it

Prolly wont get it with the airflow issue

[dire igloo]

No point in replacing glass with mesh either if you can't properly mount a rad on it

[sharp oasis]

I can mount rad onto it

It supports 2 280mm max

One front one top

[dire igloo]

Get strong fans and it's fine

[sharp oasis]

Can you suggest some strong fans.

I'm prolly replacing that big frontal fan with 2 140mm ones

[dire igloo]

Not in 140mm

Lian Li Unifans P28/AL120v2, Phanteks T30/D30

Or just simpleton TL-C12C-S

Or TL-S12-S

[sharp oasis]

I already have these

I'll use my back stock

I have like 4 extra

[edgy hazel]

arctic p14

[dire igloo]

Pre-owned TL-C12C-S are better

Much better value

[edgy hazel]

are they 140?

[dire igloo]

Do they need to be?

[sharp oasis]

I'll find some decent 140mm ones for front

[night girder]

160mm fans is where it's really at

[edgy hazel]

he did ask for 140s no?

[night girder]

yes he did.

[sharp oasis]

But use the back log of 120mm ones on the rad

[edgy hazel]

and arctic p14 are 140

[sharp oasis]

Bc I have a bunch of em

[sharp oasis]

Bet

[edgy hazel]

contrary to the arctic p12 which aaaarrrreeee?

[night girder]

110mm

[edgy hazel]

death

[night girder]

[sharp oasis]

I might have to push pull the cpu rad

Tho my gpu will be choked

[night girder]

didn't know they had lcd's

[sharp oasis]

I probably should do a full custom loop

[edgy hazel]

maybe your gpu likes that 🤷‍♂️

[edgy hazel]

you 100% should

[sharp oasis]

No my gpu does not like being asphixiated

Or however it's spelt

[edgy hazel]

do you know that?

[sharp oasis]

Yes

It shuts down if choked too hard

[edgy hazel]

just until it coil whines

[night girder]

aww, it's was only for an event 😦

https://x.com/GlobalLianli/status/1664657044886962176?s=20

[charred pewter]

closed is cooler, open not so much since there isnt much general 'flow' going on

[night girder]

but those temps you measured... close/open ?

[charred pewter]

hot air stagnates more with a fully open air case (without fans blowing on it)

[charred pewter]

my 3080 ran hot to 83C with or without the drawer open/closed... but the 4080 was peaking 56 when it was open, but about 53 when closed ... not big, prolly just variance

[charred pewter]

thing is, with the drawer open, those two front fans still 'blow over' the board/gpu, so it helps

[night girder]

damn, was 3080 OC'D?

[charred pewter]

nope! it was just a hot mofo

[night girder]

or just that old?

it was always like that? 😮

[charred pewter]

yup

[night girder]

holy shit

[charred pewter]

it would run 50 on none aggressive games (like factorio lol), but would hit 82/83 during 3dmark and aggressive games

the 3080s just ran hot.... 4070 and 4080s run much cooler, because 90% of them are heatsink LOL!

[sharp oasis]

I am not going custom loop yet

[edgy hazel]

weakling

[sharp oasis]

Almost a thousand Canadian dollars if I get the parts for alphacool

[edgy hazel]

come to the evil side

[charred pewter]

all of this .... is nothing but solid heatsink passthrough. there is no board, no pcb, no wires, nothing ... !

[edgy hazel]

stop buying the most expensive parts they have jesus

[sharp oasis]

I'm not

[charred pewter]

do it!

[night girder]

yup, my 6950XT has the same.

[charred pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-futurama-fry-take-my-money-money-gif-15195954

[sharp oasis]

Problem is if I wanna watercooler my next build it's like 760w of heat to dissipate

[charred pewter]

ouch

[night girder]

heatsinks from the front to the back

with 3 fans on the bottom

[sharp oasis]

What I said

Watercooling a 4080 and 7800X3D along with the ram. Not cheap

[edgy hazel]

BUT AIR HANDLES THAT?

[night girder]

sure

[maiden coyote]

Gotta watercool that ddr5

[sharp oasis]

Not in that case

[charred pewter]

yup, same... the extra thickness too now is 'more fins' ... its honkin up pci slots

[sharp oasis]

That case is restricted to all hell.

[charred pewter]

watercooled ddr5 ??? wat ?

[sharp oasis]

So if I do wanna use it I'd have to have strong intake fans and prolly full custom loop

[night girder]

with a good case, sure it can. My case can handle it with air.

[maiden coyote]

Watercool your voltage regulators too.. those actually get hot

[sharp oasis]

I'll have to find something yeah

[sharp oasis]

I might as well and get a car radiator lol

[maiden coyote]

If it was me I'd do the cpu and gpu only. 760w isn't that much heat for a radiator. A 360 shouldn't have any issues with it.

[sharp oasis]

That case doesn't support 360mm rads

Max size is a 280mm

[edgy hazel]

280 coming in

[maiden coyote]

Then a 280 with good air flow.

[edgy hazel]

86mm thiccc

[sharp oasis]

I am not getting a brick for a radiator

[maiden coyote]

Why not

[edgy hazel]

why noooot

[sharp oasis]

One. It looks goofy as all hell. Two how the actual fuck do I fit that in this

[edgy hazel]

with some effort my man

[maiden coyote]

Voltage regulators not watercooled D:

[edgy hazel]

I mean I can try to fin ones that are smaller 😮

nope

but you should be able to just use those

they're tiny

[sharp oasis]

Yeah

That or I might go with either a NV5 or a NV7

[jagged snow]

@edgy hazel

[edgy hazel]

oh fuck that looks nice

apart from the olives I hope you choke on them

god that crust must be so fluffy and crispy

they should be banned by law in general

[median walrus]

Thats some pretty good lookin pizza

makes me want to make another Detroit style pizza

[edgy hazel]

I prefer thin and crispy but I love any

[median walrus]

Me too but I've been craving that deep dish style, just prefer the crunchy cheese detroit has over chicago style

[edgy hazel]

I will now

[sharp oasis]

Nuh uh

Olives are great on pizza

[charred pewter]

black olives, mushrooms, pepperoni, banana peppers ... yum

[sharp oasis]

This dude gets it

[charred pewter]

what doesnt belong on a pizza?? FUCKING PINEAPPLE

[sharp oasis]

Nuh uh. I disagree

[charred pewter]

hehehe

i draw the line on the kitchen sink, with pineapple

[sharp oasis]

I'm Canadain and this is a hot topic for us

[charred pewter]

i'll put anything/everything else on a pizza 😄

[sharp oasis]

Wasint it a Canadian that made a Hawaiian pizza

[charred pewter]

probably, sounds like something they would do

maple syrup and ham on pizza

[sharp oasis]

Okay

I draw the line at maple syrup

It's good

[median walrus]

garlic sauce is the king of pizza

fight me about it

[charred pewter]

but, youre canadian!

[sharp oasis]

But not on pizza

I'll basically drink the shi

But I will not eat it with pizza

[median walrus]

clearly not canadian, hasnt said sorry once yet

[charred pewter]

right... i thought maple syrup was like americans are with ketchup ... put it on everything

[sharp oasis]

Sorry 😂

[sharp oasis]

We are worse

We have Ketchup flavored chips

[median walrus]

we truly are

[charred pewter]

i like those

[median walrus]

the doritos mustard ones werent bad either

[charred pewter]

if i cant get some, i simply dip potatoe chips in ketchup ... (instead of ranch)

i mean, potato chips are just really crispy french fries

[median walrus]

whoa whoa whoa....thems fighting words....not ranch?

[sharp oasis]

My go to dip is mayonnaise with hot sauce

[charred pewter]

lactose free ranch is gross, so i kinda have to steer clear

[median walrus]

I'm gonna hork

[sharp oasis]

That

[charred pewter]

yeah.... fat free, lactose free, sugar free, ranch ... seriously, who would buy that

[sharp oasis]

And what is the best flavor of peanut butter

[charred pewter]

uh...

this is a trick question i can feel it

[sharp oasis]

Nah. It's not. Or is it?!

[median walrus]

...peanut butter flavored?

[charred pewter]

peanut butter flavored peanut butter is the best !

[sharp oasis]

Like what brand

[charred pewter]

oh

meh, i like Jiff creamy

[sharp oasis]

As they all taste a Lil diffrent

[median walrus]

clearly its reeses

[sharp oasis]

I actually agree on that

[charred pewter]

the extra crunchy is good on sandwiches, but suck for spreading on crackers and veggies

[sharp oasis]

Nuh uh. Way too much shugar

I spelt that wrong

Sugar*

[charred pewter]

reese peanut butter isnt peanut butter, i dunno what that stuff is

[sharp oasis]

99% sugar 1% peanut butter

[median walrus]

I still havent found a good use for reeses pb

Jiff is where its at

[sharp oasis]

Planters peanut butter isint too bad either imo

[median walrus]

nor suprised, but didnt know they made pb

[sharp oasis]

Kraft is another sugar bomb

Here's the hot hot topic

Coke or pepsi

[median walrus]

unsurpsising given what they call cheese

Dublin Dr. Pepper
only real answer

[sharp oasis]

I actually agree to an extent. It depends if it's available. And if it's not I'll drink coke

And if that's not available I'll drink pepsi

Ooh that reminds me of a candy I havent had in years

Milk duds

[median walrus]

Starburst twizlers?

[sharp oasis]

I remeber the last time I had one was when my grandpa was still alive like 11 years ago

[sharp oasis]

Never had one

[median walrus]

the most superior twizler type candy.... none of the imitations, nor real twizlers come close

milk duds are good too but only in small quantities

[sharp oasis]

Mhm

[charred pewter]

i like responding to "is pepsi alright?" in restaurants when I order a coke, with "fuck no, gimmie a water instead"

one restaurant here got so many customer complaints when they switched to pepsi, that they switched back to coke and put a sign in their front window "We have coke back!"

[median walrus]

hydrohommies unite! I'm almost always a water person anyways

[charred pewter]

yeah, at home i drink a LOT of water... treat myself to just a can of coke on occasion

[median walrus]

carry around 2 64oz hydroflasks at work

then drink another 40oz or so when I get home.

Good water is the way

[sharp oasis]

Water has flavors depending on where you are and teh quality and material of your pipes

I am a Instant noodles mf

[median walrus]

but what brand?

[sharp oasis]

Mr noodles

Who was it that I talked to abt flashing a new OS onto a android phone

I might do it

[jagged snow]

I'm glad the pizza could spark such a debate

[median walrus]

Already decided I'm having pizza tonight

garlic sauce, peperroni, bacon

[sharp oasis]

One day I bet there will be a war over what belongs on pizza

[median walrus]

Pretty Sure Franz Ferdinand said pineapple belonged on pizza

[sharp oasis]

😂

[charred pewter]

one day i believe a war will be solved with pizza

[jagged snow]

Do many high-profile breaches lately https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/12/hack-of-unpatched-comcast-servers-results-in-stolen-personal-data-including-passwords/
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/12/ransomware-attack-on-insomniac-games-exposes-employee-data-future-games-and-more/

[median walrus]

its more or less inevitable now, with insurance taking the risk costs away from businesses they have less incentive to properly (costly) ensure they secure thier end. Especially when it doesnt affect the bottom line

[obtuse geyser]

was browsing store for usb extension and found this.
spot what is wrong with this cable

[dusk rivet]

currently feeling like an idiot cause it looks normal

[obtuse geyser]

a normal legal cable looks like this

[dusk rivet]

are usb-a male to male cables not a legit thing?

[obtuse geyser]

male-A to male-A are not a legit thing, as far as my knowledge goes.

[gilded helm]

Right, it's the whole reason USB-B exists, they were afraid of A to A

[obtuse geyser]

This is to prevent people connecting two host devices, eg two computers together. because that shorts together the power supplies of the two.

[dusk rivet]

there are so many male-a to male-a cables

[obtuse geyser]

mobile phones created a bit of mess with micro usb-A (that has same plug as micro B)

[gilded helm]

I wonder if USB-C to C being allowed is simply a result of the logic needed to prevent shorts becoming cheaper.

[obtuse geyser]

they packed a lot of new things into C

but in its basic form, usb requires one host, supplying power, and any number of slave devices.

[gilded helm]

And there are some insane nonstandard USB-C uses, too, like the Supervooc 240W charging. And that might go to 300W.

Supervooc 240W is crazy because it's 10A, IIRC.

[obtuse geyser]

usb has been misused in myriad ways across the ages

[gilded helm]

Though I have to wonder if 10A USB is coming anyway.

[obtuse geyser]

I hope not. Supplying anything above 50w via that cable is an abomination and should be stopped.

[jagged snow]

The standard does support 230w officially iirc

It's just at 48v

[gilded helm]

48v and 5a

Whatever that works out to

[jagged snow]

240

[obtuse geyser]

exactly 240w

[dusk rivet]

do you legit just multiply voltage times amplitude to get wattage?

[gilded helm]

Yep

[obtuse geyser]

in dc, sure

[dusk rivet]

that... is a lot simpler than i thought it'd be

[obtuse geyser]

in ac, it gets trickier

[dusk rivet]

is ac a sine wave or am i being dumb and misremembering

[jagged snow]

Techincally, any sort of wave

[obtuse geyser]

it is

[jagged snow]

But sine is standard

[gilded helm]

I will say, I'm starting to like powering my laptop with USB-C.

[jagged snow]

And it's the only reasonable way to employ it on a grid scale

[gilded helm]

Now I just need that small Anker 100W wall wart and a cable.

[obtuse geyser]

why not go wireless? only 1-2kw supply, can double as room heater and hope you dont wear jewelry

[gilded helm]

Honestly, that's plausible for a lot of low power devices.

The bar I'm DJing right now is blasting heat, capturing any amount for passive electricity would be big for a smartwatch. It could probably keep the mixer here going if the mixer had a UPS built in.

[obtuse geyser]

can't convert heat to electricity, perpetuum mobile 2nd kind has not been discovered yet

[gilded helm]

Can you dump wireless electricity without aiming it, though? It would accomplish the same thing as a heater, but maybe some device can use it.

[jagged snow]

Not effeciently

[gilded helm]

Oh, the efficiency couldn't be good by definition, sure

[jagged snow]

The efficiency of wireless transfer decreases exponentially with distance

And it's actually already been tried

One sec

[obtuse geyser]

about 10% transferred. need 1kw to power 100wat tv

[jagged snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIR7tcS5d8A&pp=ygUhdGVzbGEgd2lyZWxlc3MgcG93ZXIgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9u

[gilded helm]

I remember an Intel engineer making a video at the top of a building powering a lightbulb with stray power.

I can't find it, but it's different than them powering one indoors

I would guess 10 years ago, maybe more

[obtuse geyser]

you can easily 'catch' any kind of em waves if you make an antenna with the resonant frequency.
in fact, if you have an atm card, it already work by the principle of resonance. The terminal powers it up by radio wave. atm card has no battery inside.

If you have an 800/900/1800/1900 antenna and stand by cell tower, you most likely can power a small bulb off it.
did the engineer and building in question have a cell tower near?

[gilded helm]

It's weird, I can picture the face of the engineer because he did a bunch of videos, but I can't find a single one.

[charred pewter]

guhhhh ....

windows went bonkers on the motherboard swap ... it just wont go through the 'reactivate after hardware change' ... it just keeps bailing. damnit

clearly like if your motherboard dies, you are fucked, gotta buy another copy of windows

[languid gulch]

i suspect i'll have to buy a fresh copy of win11 if i want to upgrade my mobo

think it's been 1 too many hardware changes now

i think i officially now have nothing left of my first pc in this one

[charred pewter]

weird thing is, it worked the last time i changed my board from a z87a to a z690

this time though, its just going through the motions, but keeps erroring

so i did a 'remove device' thinking it would free up my digital license ... but now it just wont do jack shit

[languid gulch]

i've stuck to AM4 since 2017, so i think my OS key has stayed valid because of that even tho it was win8 originally

[charred pewter]

mine was win7 originally 😆

i mean i got the milegae out of it, and im a tight wad ... i just dont like having to buy windows when ive 100% lost my original windows license ....

[languid gulch]

kinda wish i had an IDE to usb cuz i still have one of those old clunkers hanging around

[charred pewter]

i mean, i cant even install it on the old hardware now to run as a second machine like nothing happened

[languid gulch]

oh yea if this one feels like fucking off i'll finally switch over to win11

i have so much stuff back in boxes i could almost make another pc

but i'm not gonna invest in a mobo just for a 1700X

besides i'm most disappointed that my 6600XT has been sitting doing nothing

[charred pewter]

oops

[languid gulch]

although if i do go for a new platform & have to get a new license, all i'd need to actually build a 2nd system would be a case & PSU

so then i'd probably go for it

5600X & 6600XT is still a decent setup, 6800XT feels a bit OP for my 5600X

[winged valley]

its for printers

[winged valley]

False since at least 2014, nowadays nothing happens (there is a special driver you can get to enable file sharing though)

okay lets try that again

[winged valley]

look in dms I have a solution

[winged valley]

if you change every single part of your hardware the reactovation tool wont work

however if you change everything but your boot drive, it will work

then if you want to upgrade drive after that you can

[languid gulch]

yup, that's what my most recent change was

went from old laptop 250gb ssd to nvme right on the board

i just have amazing luck & i know that just transferring the nvme over to a new mobo/cpu will make it brain fart & refuse to stay activated

[winged valley]

so i might be wrong

and i probably am

OEM systems have the license baked into the mobo, i think in the UEFI ROM

[languid gulch]

tho if i do go ahead & build a 2nd system like that it'll probably go to a family member so i'd just get them their own license anyway

[winged valley]

Pretty sure the reason it freaks out when you switch mobo is because theres no more uefi license

[charred pewter]

nothing appears to work for me, i didnt change my boot m2, it had the same install of windows11 on it from the old motherboard. and entering in my old 'key', doesnt accept it, because i had already converted that key to a digital license last time

[winged valley]

frigid

[charred pewter]

yeah, its the serial number on the board

[winged valley]

i dmd you a solution

[charred pewter]

i know, and i dont like punching things into command line that i dont fully understand 😉

[winged valley]

yes which is why i encouraged you to look it up tourself

[charred pewter]

wasnt finding much info

[winged valley]

the website goes to the github last i checked

[charred pewter]

plus its late and im so tired lol

eyes fading, brain fogging

[winged valley]

for anyone who is wondering, this is about massgravel's activator script

its the successor to ms toolkit

not literally but it did take its place

[languid gulch]

the 1 thing i'd like about jumping to win11 is the default powertoys stuff

[winged valley]

Yeah thats nice

Wish it had process explorer built in

[twin dew]

Those are Micro-USB-AB, have both A and B compatibility in the form.

So you have Micro-USB-A, Micro-USB-B, and then Micro-USB-AB on phones that can be both host and device.

[twin dew]

The -AB ones are very easy to break by trying to insert -B wrong way around.

[edgy hazel]

I have like 5 of those for a pass-through

[twin dew]

Not allowed by the USB spec.
Still made and used.

[twin dew]

Should be A on one side, B on other.

[edgy hazel]

Nope

[twin dew]

I didn't say the ones you have are, but they should have been, the maker fucked up.

Same with that thing.

Because like said, A-A cable is dangerous.
Plug it between two computers and you burn out both ports, or even both MB.

For example.

Same reason why A->C adapters are not allowed, to turn A port on computer to C port.
Only turning C ports to A ports.

[twin dew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WRF2bDl-u8

Comparing power usage and power efficiency in games between various CPUs.

[gilded helm]

Greg 2 amazes me. Intel never had a chance in this sort of test because they're on a node that's basically a generation or two behind Zen 4

[twin dew]

Well, Intel 14700K did win efficiency in Blender when power limited to same level.

But just against 7800X3D 😂

The higher-core-count AMDs with the same power limit would still have kicked the 14700K.

Well, they did when you look the numbers from the previous charts.

On ECO mode.

[gilded helm]

In a way it's cool Intel is able to be as competitive as they are by cranking power so much. But that also raises the platform cost for the user.

[wooden tulip]

amd is better

[twin dew]

Depends on thing.
But for general power efficiency when not idle, usually.

The multi-die causes high idle power compared to Intel.

IOD will pull 6-10W at all times.

[languid gulch]

reminds me of how AMD would try to melt their GPUs with power to try to keep up with nvidia

[night girder]

you don't mean that story where users didn't connect the PCIE cables properly and melted their GPU? To then complain it was the companies fault.

[languid gulch]

lol no i mean the old RX400/500 series that'd suck down power but even the 590 ended up at like 1070 performance

[dire igloo]

@twin dew this kit seems to be H16A, is it the same with CL38 vs CL30/CL32 that the primary timings are negligible due to high secondary and tertiary timings or does it go so far that it needs tuning to run properly?
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kp9wrH/

Cuz it sure is dirt cheap

[twin dew]

If it actually is Hynix 16Gb A-die, it should clock and tighten on timings like any other, just "unbinned", but with that kind of settings at stock, it can have almost any current production DRAM chips, not just Hynix.
And that someone has gotten Hynix A on that SKU doesn't mean all the production with that SKU uses it.

Ah, sorry, 6000MT/s @ 1.1V?
Then it must be Hynix A

Just no XMP/EXPO profile.

Just at JEDEC default latencies for 6000MT/s. Like the voltage.
So with increasing the voltage to 1.35V, you get the same as with any XMP/EXPO set with that voltage and same chips mostly.
Just need to manually find the limits.

But should hit that CL32 at least @ 6000MT/s.

So probably something like 32-38-38-50 on AMD could be easily doable. And the third might go to 30 or so
On Intel the last will be higher probably, as you cannot often separately configure tRC.

[twin dew]

So yes, almost certainly Hynix A-die, and as the current Hynix DDR5 dies don't seem to have big variance, prebinning made by RAM manufacturer isn't that important.
And that it can do 6000MT/s with just DDR5 stock 1.1V means it must be somewhat good A-die AFAIK.

[dire igloo]

Oh, sorry, bad wording of my question.

Will it perform like any other 6000 MT/s kit when sticking to just xmp/expo?

[twin dew]

It doesn't have XMP or EXPO profile, just JEDEC SPD profile.
So no, as the timings will be much more loose, at that 48-48-48 instead of something like 32-40-40-96 XMP/EXPO set would be.
But very easy to set the primaries to what Hynix A can about do on bad day and run pass of memtest.

Or if you don't tune, you get little less performance, but lower voltages.

[dire igloo]

So it's kinda slower but only a little bit?

[twin dew]

Depends if the specific program cares more about bandwidth, or latency.
Big latency difference, small bandwidth difference.
Games usually care more about latency AFAIK.

But tuning and checking for stability for the primaries is easy.

[dire igloo]

Or you just so happened to have HEMM

[twin dew]

First goes around to replace older stuff, and finally to electronics recycling.

[dire igloo]

Either that or hand it down to family or friends

Or have it sit in the attic because you never know if you might need it

I'd always aim to have a replacement GPU at hand

Could always set them up as a dedicated server for games

Or a private server

[night girder]

My friend. It's Christmas. Wrap it up. Gift it to someone 😂 It's not a matter of what somebody wants. It's a matter of you getting rid of old hardware easily 😂

[dire igloo]

Can always make him.
Pretty sure there's a game out there that ties neatly into his hobbies and interests

[night girder]

My old PC is going to my niece and newphew. They don't know it.

btw:

Next generation Arc 🙂 - 2024. The 2nd generation is called "Battlemage".

[twin dew]

Yeah, that code-name for the second gen has been known for long time.
Was just question if the exec at Intel would shut the ARC project down or not.

[night girder]

apparantly not.

[twin dew]

It would have been stupid, but that didn't make it less likely.

Alchemist, Battlemage, Celestial, Druid <- should be all in pipeline.

[night girder]

Alchemist - Battlemag - Cryptlord (3rd generation) - Dragon (4th generation) ... 😂

haha Baldur. FFS was thinking exactly the same.

[twin dew]

Those are the leaked names you can find on internet.

[night girder]

Ooooh darn it 😄

[twin dew]

The ones I listed.

[night girder]

I made em up. I felt a theme.

nah, they going alphabetic with fantasy stuff, because that works for gamers.

I really don't want a GPU called "druid" fuck that. Sounds way to eco friendly.

[twin dew]

So not leaked, announced.

[night girder]

screenshot I posted is from Intel during event in Japan.

[twin dew]

Yup, but that image I posted was from 2021.

[night girder]

Cool cool 😄 I can only root for intel.

[twin dew]

So they are finally starting to talk about the actual timeline for the second gen.

But developing new CPU/GPU as 4-6 year timeline.
So those were all on the pipeline already in 2021 to some extent.

[night girder]

Can intel use AMD/Nvidia technology? Like fsr?

[dire igloo]

Dutch? Thought he was Belgian?

[night girder]

Belgium != The Netherlands.

[dire igloo]

Both speak funny and use tweakers

[night girder]

cannot denny that 😉

I don't mind if people get it confused. It's all just a bit overcomplicated.

But, I am wondering. Can Intel benefit from Nvidia/AMD technology?

Because both are adding their techs specific for their hardware. Intel is behind on this or ... ?

So arc GPU benefit from ReBAR

[twin dew]

The performance is very bad without it.

[night girder]

So that's intel technology? ReBAR?

Oh no. Nvidia. And smart access memory for AMD?

[twin dew]

ReBAR is the base standard technology, that was brought forward from being obscure optional part of PCIe spec to forefront by AMD under the name SAM.

Been a thing forever as part of PCIe, but no-one supported it.

[night girder]

And ReBAR lets CPU use full memory of GPU if needed?

[dire igloo]

Thoughts on "Belgian flag is just vertical German flag"?

There's this one dutch company which makes machines that turn silicon into chips.
Companies like Intel and TSMC use those machines to make chips.
etc

[tribal kraken]

My area is deeper into the chain, mining equiment in copper mines

[surreal sun]

i’m so happy, i’ve ordered almost everything for my PC, just gonna wait until like after christmas to order my GPU cause i feel they will go down in price.

[dire igloo]

High-end GPU market is all over the place, rest seems quite stable

Does your CPU have an iGPU?

[surreal sun]

how would i find that out?

[twin dew]

So yes, it has very basic IGP.

[surreal sun]

Is it enough, to run satisfactory or no?

[twin dew]

Runs Satisfactory on Full-HD with everything minimum at about 20 FPS.

[surreal sun]

HSIZYAJAHSHAH 20 FPS.

💀 i meannnnn i might use that until they go down, there sky rocketed

I wonder if it’ll lag a bunch?

[twin dew]

Or do you have current computer with separate GPU?

[surreal sun]

No. this is my first ever PC.

[twin dew]

The IGP in Raphael (7000-series desktop parts) is 2 CU, 128 shading units, at 2200MHz max boost.
For comparison Radeon 6600 has 28 CU and 1792 shading units, at 2491MHz max boost.

0.56 TFlops vs. 8.9 TFlops.

Both RDNA2.

[twin dew]

No, just the low FPS.
Have run Taros 28MB save on 7800X3D with the IGP fine.
Just with that low FPS.

[dire igloo]

It's enough to set up and test your PC before you buy the GPU.

[surreal sun]

oooo amazing! 🤩 I’ll use that

Thanks guys! for your help.

[pure karma]

am i crazy or is the 253W max turbo power claim of the 14900K and 14700k just a complete lie

i feel like i have seen the 14900k consistently in the 400W range under overclockless benchmarks

[twin dew]

Probably whole machine power usage?
Most places don't have the gear to measure the CPU specific one.

Or based on CPU reported numbers?

[pure karma]

now im assuming thats probably whitout undervolting anything so you could probably save some watage there but like still odd

[pure karma]

well even the intel utility tunning app reads watage so even for the most basic benchmarking its still over

[night girder]

My thoughts: it is. 😂

[dire igloo]

Yellow/gold stripe ain't in the middle

[jagged snow]

That 235w is at stock, once you enable the Intel auto-oc thing(similar to pbo) it'll go waaaay up

[night girder]

We 100% just ripped it off though

[obtuse geyser]

Printers use Usb-A to USB-B by design. Square one goes into printer. If somebody makes a printer with USB-A, they messed up. (printer may have an usb socket on front panel for usb drive printing, but it connects to pc via usb-b, always, by spec)

[winged valley]

By spec? Didnt know there was an inter-brand universal design spec for printers

Jokes aside theres some printers that use A-A

[jagged snow]

Some newer models use usb-c

I've never seen that

[twin dew]

A -USB:s are for Host. B -USB:s are for device.
C is for both.

No matter the size.

[jagged snow]

Yup

[winged valley]

Weird ones from china made by companies youve never heard of

[jagged snow]

Any printer with an a port(while it might technically work) isn't spec compatible and might cause issues

[jagged snow]

Oh, that I could believe

[winged valley]

But yeah in general A-A cables are super niche and rarely used

But not entirely unused

[twin dew]

Well, they shouldn't exist, but idiot makers have made devices that need them.

[jagged snow]

Usb equivalent of

[twin dew]

Even one Asus MB accessory had USB-A on the device side and came with short A-A cable...

[winged valley]

Thats for backfeeding a generator

[obtuse geyser]

Thats for connecting generator to house that clearly shouldn't have one connected.
AKA fire hazard

[twin dew]

No, that is suicide cable that shouldn't exist again.
But some generator makers are idiots.

And people are idiots and don't want to do it the right way.

[winged valley]

Lets say you have a USB2.0 device (4 pins). The cable is attached to it.

Now replace that cable with a female A port wired the same way

[obtuse geyser]

Not generator maker fault. cable maker fault.

[winged valley]

Now it has a replacable cable

[twin dew]

Should have B-port.

B is for device, A is for host.

[winged valley]

Of course there are more realistic standards to implement but it is A use case

[twin dew]

No it isn't.

[winged valley]

Whether or not its correct does not invalidate basic eletrical engineering

[jagged snow]

Some generators supply those cables though(again, usually off-brand from China targeting consumers that don't know better)

[obtuse geyser]

If you have a generator, you either use extension cords, OR you install a transition switch. Not plug a live voltage device into grid.

[jagged snow]

Basic electrical engineering means that those cables can kill people

[winged valley]

WHAT?

[twin dew]

USB spec doesn't allow for A-A.
And neither does it for A-male to C converters.

[obtuse geyser]

USB-B exists for a reason.

[winged valley]

You're really going to tell me a 5v USB cable is going to kill someone?

[twin dew]

Both exist, but are very dangerous and idiotic.

[winged valley]

Whos gonna put 5 amps through a USB cable

[twin dew]

Referencing the suicide cord earlier for AC power.

[winged valley]

Ohbyeah fair

[jagged snow]

No, the extension cord.

[obtuse geyser]

If you plug it into a 5k pc. and it fries usb/mb. Then, yes, somebody is going to die.

[twin dew]

But A-A cable can kill the ports if you use it between actual host-ports.

And only host ports are supposed to be A, and all device ports are supposed to be B.

[winged valley]

On older / low quality mbs yes

[winged valley]

lol true

[obtuse geyser]

Its like saying 'plug random two haded cords into your house bc fuses exist'

[twin dew]

No, because the whole spec isn't taking into account that someone even COULD plug two host ports together, as it is supposed to be impossible because the cables won't fit.

[jagged snow]

Even on newer boards, you can permanently blow that port

They're typically fused

[winged valley]

Modern USB controllers would detect overcurrent

That was my point

[twin dew]

Which is why the Male-A to Female-C adapters aren't supposed to exist either.

[winged valley]

Ive never seen one of those

[twin dew]

There isn't overvolt, there is two line drivers fighting against each other and blowing one up.

Ok, fixed while I was writing.

[winged valley]

Yeah

Its overcurrent not overvolt

[twin dew]

Might help, might not.
Usually the overcurrent protection is on the power pins, not the data pins.

And often that is just a one time fuse that blows.

[winged valley]

Yeah data line is highly dependent on how robust the controller is

[obtuse geyser]

Notice one thing.
When you short 5V and ground on one port, thats overcurrent and can just be shut down, or even limited by current supply.
What happens when you FEED 5V into the current supply from another source? Overcurrent? current flows backwards?
If you are lucky, you will burn the 5V rail on mb, maybe even damage the cpu.

[winged valley]

Which again low end boards wjll use low end controller

[twin dew]

Almost all implementations use USB controllers in the CPU and the Chipset, no separate ones.

[obtuse geyser]

having fuses in house installation is not an excuse for causing shorts.

[twin dew]

USB-C has redriver, but not older port types.

[winged valley]

?, if yoy plug female into female then the physical wiring reverses on either side which would mean 5v always goes to ground on both sides unless it was implemented incorrectly

aka male to male cable

And again theres shady drivers that enable a-a file sharing most likely by telling the controllers to ignore the overcurrent and just feed data

Im not saying any of this is proper

Its not, at all

[obtuse geyser]

If wire is connected straight through, 5v should go to 5v. I would consult a wiring diagram to be sure, if this was a proper wiring to begin with.

[winged valley]

Assuming they were made to spec, 5vcc and ground should always be on the same pins right?

[twin dew]

Yes, and that makes them connect to each other.

If both ends are wired the same.

Same pinout.

[winged valley]

So that would mean due to physical reversal by connecting from end to end you are just shorting 5vcc to ground on each side

Which is overcurrent

[obtuse geyser]

no, same pins = same pins in sockets

[winged valley]

Yes

Ugh I'll draw it later but basically

[twin dew]

No, Because Pin 1 would be +5V on both ends.
And Pin 1 of end 1 would connect to pin 1 of end 2.

[jagged snow]

Which as baldur said would result in the drivers fighting & probably blowing something up

[obtuse geyser]

FYI, cat5 cables also connect same pin to same pin on both sides.

[winged valley]

Lets say you have a female A port (2.0) and ground is on the leftmost pin if the opening is facing yoy

[twin dew]

Which is why various cross-over cables have existed for long time.
To connect two host ports together for Ethernet or serial etc.

[winged valley]

If you connect that to another one wired the same, then that left pin connects to the right pin of the other one (5vcc)

[twin dew]

And before autodetection, switches and HUBs had different pinout to network adapters.

[obtuse geyser]

ethernet is actually valid between two pc, just sometimes needed crossover if crad did not feature auto-mdx

[twin dew]

And you needed cross-over cable to connect two switches/hubs together, or two computers together.

[winged valley]

Oh my god I worked with an okd hub like that recently

It was weird

[obtuse geyser]

no, pinouts are physical and always the same. There is auto-mdx negotation that decides which pair is sending receiving.

[twin dew]

Thas is NOW.
It wasn't so on 10Mbit/s for most cases, and only some for 100Mbit/s.
1Gbit/s has it mandatory.

[winged valley]

And this is where I do not know much

Also how does POE work? I assume it sacrifices two data wires for power

[twin dew]

The 10 and 100 only use two pairs, two are not used.

[obtuse geyser]

in one of the modes, yes. other is dc bias.

[twin dew]

1000 and up use all.
But they use DC and all network ports have always had separation transformers.

So the DC for power doesn't go over those, only the actual signal.

The big Pulse "chip" between the port and the small network chip is separation transformer.

[obtuse geyser]

ofc standard ethernet is not supposed to carry any power, so it doesnt need to be wired directly to controller.
and in fact is susceptible to current buildups from nearby lightning strikes.

[twin dew]

The ethernet port pins and rest of the card are electrically separated for ground loop, fault current etc. separation since ages ago.

And that blocks any POE DC bias, as long as the bias is below certain level.

And the 48V is comfortably so.

Some versions of passive POE use the unused pairs in 100Mbit/s ethernet, some use the active pairs.
Then for the actual active standards, the first AF as one mode that uses the inactive pairs in 100Mbit/s ethernet, another that uses the active pairs.
Same for the midpower AT standard.
Newest BT has the those still, and then two different 4-pair mode for highest power.

[obtuse geyser]

You can also create a 'dumb poe' by splicing your own connectors to inject X-Volts on unused pairs. I have my cameras powered like that.

I also hate that they put DC+ on BLUE and DC- on Brown.

have they had any EE classes about wire coding?

[twin dew]

And on the 10 and 100 those RX and TX assignments swapped around depending if the port was on "network adapter" or "network switch"

[twin dew]

Those depend on country, there isn't universal standard.

And even in Europe, they have changed over the years.
Finland has had four different color codes, some which had opposite meanings to current one.

[obtuse geyser]

pretty sure most countries agree that red/brown/orange means hot, and black/white/gray/blue is ground.

[twin dew]

There is now EU standard, but that is Europe only.
For rest, depends.

Changing something like that because some other country has opposite doesn't make it good reason to switch.

[obtuse geyser]

for ac. for dc, I'm not sure there is one

[twin dew]

So there hasn't even been attempt at world wide standardization AFAIK.

[obtuse geyser]

more of an unspoken tradition. definitely not using red for minus and blue for plus

[jagged snow]

I don't think there's a universal standard, the most typical I've seen are white, black, or blue for ground and anything else for positive

[obtuse geyser]

the unspoken standard, yes. and poe uses blue for positive 😂

[twin dew]

For Finland, for long time it was Gray for neutral, black for first phase, red for second, blue for third.

[obtuse geyser]

again, thats ac, and those are real rainbow around the world

[twin dew]

And network cables had their colors long before POE was a thing.

And two of the pairs have alternative locations.

[obtuse geyser]

ofc they did, but why would poe standard makers pick the wrong color for +/-??

[jagged snow]

Unfortunately it's just common enough for something to break that that you have to check in essentially every case but a red/black pairing

Even then its wise to be safe

[twin dew]

Because they cared about the pin numbers more than the colors.

Because you don't care about the cable colors for the pinout side.

And having the "lower" pin number as + and higher as - is more common for that.

[obtuse geyser]

It should not make much difference of which one is +/- unless there are some advanced intereferences on host side to account for?

[obtuse geyser]

oh, that could be the case.

is it standard or just common?

[twin dew]

So it is either 1 + 2 for +, and 3 + 6 for -, or 4+5 for + and 7+8 for -

And I really hate AT&T for that mid split...

At least they had to stop after having one pair in center, second around the first, original plan was for the third pair to be 2+7 and fourth the 1+8.
But too much crosstalk.

When they could just as easily at the beginning of time have added second pair to either side of the first, and so on.

Also same for the two color schemes, A is what AT&T used, B is what everyone else used.

US government still specifies that all wiring for them needs to be A, and almost everyone else specifies B.

[obtuse geyser]

A is used in usa and B in europe, or other way around. think my house is wired in B

[twin dew]

Nah, even in US it was only AT&T (and via them the US government spec) that calls for A.

But the US government one is just for government buildings.

[obtuse geyser]

so, america A and america B? like trump said?

Oh, so crossover cables exist solely to connect government buildings to "normal" networks!

[I'll stop the puns now]

[twin dew]

No, crossover was for the old stuff that didn't support the current autonegotiation (MDI-X)

[obtuse geyser]

[it was a joke]

[pure karma]

yea you can enable that but even off i saw 450W somewhere

and tbh the auto-oc is mid everything turns off at 70C so it kinda ruins the point entirely on chips that are barely coolable

[twin dew]

Because the nominal TDP is for long term, the short term boost is basically unlimited.
And many MB and with some CPUs the long term boost is unlimited too.

Sorry, 253W is supposed to be both for 14900K as stock.

[pure karma]

yea thats why im really confused

[jagged snow]

At stock, 450w is a misread

[twin dew]

But many MBs default to unlocking the turbo limit.

[jagged snow]

Yeah

[twin dew]

And don't follow the Intel spec.

[jagged snow]

Which isn't stock

[pure karma]

i saw 400-450 fluctuation on a constant bench load

[twin dew]

So the CPU never runs as stock unless you change MB settings.

[pure karma]

whit the stock 6ghz core clock and all cores active

[twin dew]

Point was that unless you change MB BIOS settings, it will on MB defaults remove the power limit completely, and only leave the temperature and frequency limits.

Which isn't stock for the CPU, but is stock for the MB.

MB makers have since time long since past just straight up ignored CPU maker guidance and done defaults that OC the CPU.

[charred pewter]

so this was odd ... when i was moving my m2's from my old board to the new board... the m2 that was 'under the MSI M2 heatsink' ... had this odd 'gel' on top of the chips that were in contact with the squishy padding on the MSI M2 heatsink

clear goey gel.... which i never put there, and the padding wasnt sticky itself (just a soft pad)

did that gel come FROM the pad, or did it come OUT of the chips ??

[twin dew]

Come from the padding with heat.

Cheap silicon pad that sweated silicon out.

[charred pewter]

ah

the new boad has even more of those M2 heatsinks and pads ... so now all my M2s are under them ... 😦

[twin dew]

Heat and pressure.

[charred pewter]

one M2 has its own heatspreader cap (a thin metal sheet)... which i cannot remove. the sabrent rocket

[twin dew]

Why would that kind of sheet need to be removed?
Many of the markings sheets are actually metal backed for that reason in SSDs now.

To act as basic heat spreader.

[charred pewter]

i read somewhere (prolly fake reddit BS) "you should remove any extra heat spreaders if you put an m2 under a heatsink on the board"

i dont see why it would be a problem.....

[twin dew]

Well, the thick ones don't fit...

[charred pewter]

the chips transfer to the metal sheet, which transfers to the pad ...

[twin dew]

Sticker ones don't matter.

[charred pewter]

yeah, the sabrent is like a sticker, thin metal

[twin dew]

There would be very minor difference without the sticker, but doesn't really matter.

As the total transfer distance would be less.

[charred pewter]

my gammix blade CAME wit ha metal sticker, but i never put it on, since that one went under the MSI heatsink

and it was that M2 that had all that GOOO on it when i removed it lol

[twin dew]

And another CPU core ECC error on Core 3.

So Curve Optimizer -10 wasn't stable for it on 4 core load.

Single error during one hours run with Y-Cruncher on three best cores and Prime95 Core cycler on that core. AVX512+HT on both.

And the AGESA 1.1.0.1 has made the stable CO offsets smaller on some of my cores.

[sharp oasis]

I have been very lucky that - 20 has just. Worked.

[twin dew]

Might have not, just haven't noticed the seldomly happening errors.
Mostly the larger offsets work, on all-core or single-core load.
But not on partial core loads, but the errors are so minor that they don't usually cause crashes.
Just very hidden data corruption.

[sharp oasis]

I haven't seen a single ECC error on multi core and single core loads

That or it's extremely rare

Like you say

[twin dew]

Because by default large part of AM4 and AM5 boards just swallow corrected errors, and reboot on uncorrected ones.

And most of the stuff isn't ECC protected, just caches.

[sharp oasis]

I have mine sending corrected errors to os

[twin dew]

Can be for example one error every few weeks in normal usage.

[sharp oasis]

And uncorrected ones are just an instant bsod

[twin dew]

Just calculation error.

Not one that has ECC checking.

[sharp oasis]

Ahh

Yeah I haven't seen one in the system logs

I remeber seeing a lot of errors when I was pushing 4000mhz 1:1 ram

Like 168 corrected errors in 2min

And one critical error on vram

[twin dew]

Probably IF bus errors, on AM4, which actually reports those.
AM5 at this time doesn't.

[sharp oasis]

All of them were something with a bus cycle being missed or something of the line

[twin dew]

But point was that most Curve Optimizer negative offset machines are just marginally stable, because there isn't easy way to currently test those "some cores used" cases.
So almost no-one tests for those except you then get the "this game crashes when everything else is stable!".

[sharp oasis]

I haven't had one of those

[twin dew]

Just pointing the easy to see case from not checking the mid-core loads.

[sharp oasis]

The only game I've had crash was bc my gpu was acting up and the driver had a microstutter causing the game to error out. JC3 so it's a old game

It doesn't like latest Radeon drivers for some reason

[twin dew]

That the "CO offset" current meta is completely missing in OC community.

[sharp oasis]

Mines prolly even less stable bc of the 10x scalar and - 20 offset

@twin dew its safe to assume you can't run 4 sticks of DDR5 on a 7800X3D

[twin dew]

You can, but the frequency will be low.
Officially 3600MT/s.

When single stick per channel is 5200MT/s officially

[sharp oasis]

Whats the usual oc peak for the 7800x3d

6000mt/s

[twin dew]

6200-6600 in 1:1 if you are willing to pump the voltages.
My old one could do 6000 on 1.05V SOC, current one needs 1.15V.

With pretty tight latencies.

[sharp oasis]

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/pJtwmD

This is a full setup change

[wanton orchid]

(and cmdr:1T)

[sharp oasis]

Any suggestions or tweaks

[twin dew]

Well, better to say that Gear Down Mode is disabled, as the default is that on, so 1.5T.

And I'm with GDM off and 1T.

[wanton orchid]

I mean that ^ so 1T

so very nice

my ddr4 sticks never really worked well on 1T

[jagged snow]

Gn humor
https://youtu.be/9WRF2bDl-u8?si=_CZwIu-dFvUoVUkD

[wanton orchid]

2 setup
one with bad motherboard
the other with me messing the ram slots by overloading channels

[sharp oasis]

But yeah I might actually Make a new build

Mabey.

[narrow folio]

while the talk is about ram: would it help to grab high clock rated ram with already good timings for that speed and set it to 6000-6400 for even better timings?

[wanton orchid]

"but Photoshop is much more efficient on Intel so shut up they said they wanted production workstation to do 3d blender so that means Photoshop because workstations means Photoshop and Photoshop means Intel is better so they need Intel" folks going to die with that one
GN: "amd is slightly better even in Photoshop"
rip bozos

[tough owl]

@night girder you do development on macos right? I need help compiling something meant for x86 macos but im on arm macos

[twin dew]

The high-end kits are mostly about making sure you get the best die type with good bin if you go for that type of thing.

But for current Hynix, there doesn't seem to be bad bins at all.

[narrow folio]

I'm thinking about upgrading from 32 to 64GB (or 96 if 48GB modules are a viable option)
there are way too many options to choose from 👀

[twin dew]

Hynix 24Gb M-die is better than Hynix 16Gb A-die

For high-speed potential.

[narrow folio]

so going hynix is a good call either way, thanks

[charred pewter]

seems so

[twin dew]

They got something magical right with the 16Gb M-die and have been able to keep that and improve on it with the later ones.

[night girder]

shouldn't be a problem, some compilers already do multiple architectures. But it depends on what language.

[twin dew]

And Micron and Samsung had problems just hitting JEDEC 4800.

[tough owl]

Does this mean anything to you, it means nothing to me

[twin dew]

The zic.o, part of nx_tzdb, isn't set to be compiled on arm64, only as 64-bit x86.

Also:
Missing libraries: RenderDoc, SimpleIni, stb, VulkanMemoryAllocator, xbyak, dynarmic, cubeb, Doxygen.
Marginal CMake that is depricated for the specific compile because it is too old.

You are trying to compile the program as Apple CPU native, and that specific library isn't set up for it.

[charred pewter]

my cpu is getting up to 70C just running crystaldiskmark

[jagged snow]

If only somebody could've told you intel 13th/14th gen is power hungry and inneffecient 😉

[charred pewter]

lol

[twin dew]

Might be possible to set compiler option to compile for MacOS native x86-64.

[charred pewter]

its efficient in speed... just power hungry 😄

[tough owl]

I know for cemu compiling on macos you can set the environment to be x86 and compile as if it was x86 and then use rosetta to do translation afterword

[charred pewter]

i dont even think a custom water loop would help either 😉

[jagged snow]

That's not what efficiency means
It's fast but extremely inefficient

[charred pewter]

i was joshing

[jagged snow]

From what I've seen, it probably wouldn't 😛

Maybe ln2

[charred pewter]

why do something effectively, when you can over do it!

[twin dew]

Same idea needed, cannot comment on HOW to do it in this case.

[charred pewter]

honestly unless intel changes their tech in a big way, i dont know how they can progress with faster cpus

[tough owl]

arch -x86_64 zsh

I dont know how to verify though

[twin dew]

And I was wrong about the CMake warnings, it is the CMake warning that the project specifies too old version.
And newer CMake versions might not work with the project anymore.

[charred pewter]

i guess since they keep saying "runing all the time at 100C is what they were built for, dont worry bout it" .... 🤷

[night girder]

The native macOS build is currently purely experimental and should not be considered stable or ready for issue-free gameplay. There are also known issues with degraded performance due to the use of MoltenVK and Rosetta for ARM Macs. We appreciate your patience while we improve Cemu for macOS.

[charred pewter]

"We appreciate your patience" 😆

[tough owl]

seems to work

[night girder]

I wonder if you can even get it stable if you get it to compile 😒

[tough owl]

theres precompiled binaries

[night girder]

I am just posting from their github page.

[tough owl]

https://github.com/cemu-project/Cemu/actions/runs/7201413470

I know cemu started to work on macos because someone was like screw it and took the linux build instructions and made an effort to get them to work on macos

[night girder]

👆

[tough owl]

Oh yea I know

[night girder]

So, arch -x86_64 zsh gives you a arm compiled Cemu? 👀

[tough owl]

no

sets the environment to be x86 so you can compile the x86 version to use on intel macs. and then for arm macs just use rosetta

[night girder]

Cool cool 😄

[tough owl]

also look at that sweet sweet VULKAN

[night girder]

Ugh Vulkan 😉

[tough owl]

mmfmph

[night girder]

BG3 was developed against Vulkan. Alpha. At release Larian said: "don't use Vulkan, use DirectX" - So they had 3 years alpha developed against an API they eventually kinda ditched because too unstable.

[tough owl]

BG3 uses metal on macos now 🤣

[night girder]

Now, I don't want to point the finger at Vulkan. But still, something to think about.

[twin dew]

Might use the same MoltenVK, so Vulkan to Metal translation thingie.

[tough owl]

afaik they dont since they support metalFX

and moltenvk cant do that yet

[twin dew]

But as MacOS doesn't support OpenGL, Vulkan or DX, so you either need native Metal, or Vulkan with MoltenVK.

[tough owl]

oh also snowrunner now supports native macos with arm native and metal

[night girder]

Just bootcamp it all Doesn't that make life easier?

[tough owl]

😭

[twin dew]

Doesn't work on ARM Macs.

[night girder]

Ah, it's one of those features I love about mac 😦

[twin dew]

Only the old Intel ones.

[night girder]

https://tenor.com/view/aplausos-clapped-leonardo-dicaprio-clap-slow-clap-gif-12389001

[tough owl]

oh hey guys

dont mind me playing snowrunner at native res on my macbook

[night girder]

Eh, I mean. As a gamer. Bootcamp on macbook is doable to game. (personal opinion)

all the rest is just too much effort 😛

but you got it up and running, enjoy kade 👍

[tough owl]

runs smooth

[night girder]

I don't see frames 😉

[tough owl]

it even goes around the notch when in fullscreen mode 🤣

[tough owl]

I need to figure out how to turn those on, steam overlay is broken

🤣

[night girder]

also, it doesn't mean that if a mac can run a game, it can run a game. It can get so hot the laptop shuts down or something 😄

138% out of 100% used 👍

[tough owl]

yea idk how that works

[night girder]

GPU has a little bit of room left, 5%

[tough owl]

doing not toooo bad

[night girder]

poor macbook 😄

I would panick if I see 95 celcius. But only if it's a real windows PC.

for laptop it seems fine

[night girder]

Buddy of mine months ago wanted to buy gaming laptop second hand. I said that it looked like a good laptop for the price. I warned him that the laptop might get hot. Few days ago, "is it normal the laptop get's insanely hot?" 😄

[sharp oasis]

😂

Gaming laptops are litterally built to constantly run 90c

Jk

[night girder]

He asked me if I could repaste the CPU

[sharp oasis]

Oof

[night girder]

I said sure, but that's not going to help much against burning your legs when you put the laptop on it 😂

he doesn't even game on the thing, just netflix and the laptop lifts off haha

[tough owl]

close to 4k for this I aint complaning

[night girder]

snowpiercer a heavy game? hardware heavy?

[sharp oasis]

Mm. 30fps.

[tough owl]

I wanna say so

I cant crack more than 144 on my 5600+7600 desktop

[night girder]

I wouldn't complain either tbh, giving the context.

[tough owl]

yea it aint as fast as a 2k gaming laptop

but it sure aint as hot nor as power hungry

[night girder]

well, see what happens when you game for an hour 😉

[tough owl]

I mean for any windows laptop ive used temps jump up immedietaly to max temps allowed by the system even at full fanspin

[night girder]

macbook != windows laptop.

[tough owl]

i know

macbook also doesnt pull as much power as windows gaming laptop

[night girder]

Just curious if the mac can keep those temps over longer periods. Probably can. Just curious 😄

[tough owl]

let me download warthunder and report back

[serene charm]

My computer is finally balanced for 1080p

5800x3D and RTX 3080

previous configurations:
3950x and 3080
3950x and 2060
i5 9400f and 2060

all had some significant bottlenecks

[jagged snow]

What refresh rate you trying to push? That's overkill

[night girder]

Or building for the future. Maybe Nosey wants a 1440p next year or in two years?

[serene charm]

240hz

also do plan to upgrade to 1440p at some point

[night girder]

Yeah, I did the same Nosey 😄 Build an "overkill" PC for 1080p with the idea to buy 1440p eventually.

[serene charm]

CS2 finally hits my monitors refresh rate

and then doubles it lmao

[night girder]

if not mistaken, AMD fsr 2.0 renders to 1440p. So on 1080 FSR gives a bit of a blurry effect sometimes.

[serene charm]

im hitting 400+ without FSR...

[jagged snow]

Fsr works like dlss... can upscale from any input res to any output

[night girder]

I am speaking optimal here.

"So on 1080p monitor FSR gives a bit of a blurry effect sometimes." - Trust me. This is true.

[jagged snow]

Oh, that I believe
They both struggle at 1080p

You're a lot better off upscaling from 1080 to 1440 in terms of the quality you get

[twin dew]

Yes?

Just not with FSR and like.

[night girder]

This is what I read today.

[twin dew]

In theory with RSR.
But better to just set your GPU driver to do normal upscaling to monitor resolution from any lower resolution input.

[night girder]

I didn't know that FSR was meant for 1440p and above 😒

[jagged snow]

Yeah, I play my copy of simcity 3k from GOG quite a lot

[charred pewter]

watching some odd behavior on this 14700 ... nothing is using cpu (except a .8% for msi afterburner itself) in task manager, yet afterburner (and also hwmon) show that cores 5 and 6 are chewing on something around 16% of the core .... its also causing the "balanced power setting" to keep jiggling the boost clock and idle clock up and down every split second

basically it doesnt want to 'rest' and go idle at all cause those two cores are doing SOMETHING all the time

they are also p-cores, not e-cores

never saw this behavior on the old intel

so odd!

[jagged snow]

That's probably just misc os processes etc.

[charred pewter]

they hide themselves well in task manager 😆

weird they have also clung to those two cores and never jumping about

[jagged snow]

That's part of the new advanced scheduling they're doing for the big.little arch

Similar to preferred cores, but opposite

[charred pewter]

so i guess setting "balanced power mode" is pointless if windows is just going to jiggle the crap out of the clocks all the time huh

should set to full performance mode and just let it sit at max

uboot ? poor kit

lol took me the last hour adjust msi afterburner graphs to deal with all the extra cores and readings

[night girder]

Didn't someone post that GN video here?

[charred pewter]

what was once e-cores are p-cores, and now a ton more ecores

[night girder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WRF2bDl-u8

[charred pewter]

that guy needs to get a haircut !!!

https://tenor.com/view/abe-simpson-abe-simpson-cloud-yelling-cloud-angry-gif-12558964

[jagged snow]

#off-topic-tech message

[night girder]

Nah he doesn't need to get a haircut.

[charred pewter]

😄

heat and power be damned! i live in murica! we aint green!!! shake fist at clouds in sky

[night girder]

Flight, what is that scheduling you are talking bout?

[jagged snow]

Windows scheduler now has some more advanced logic that allows it to do a better job of putting tasks where they belong in intel's big.little arch

[night girder]

ok but what is this?

[dusk rivet]

wait what's wrong with gamers nexus

[night girder]

nothing

[dusk rivet]

good, good

[jagged snow]

That's the balanced power profile agressively ramping the core back down during very short idle time

[night girder]

ok, I guess the cores are made to handle this

[jagged snow]

Yeah, it won't hurt anything

[charred pewter]

they are, to some degree, but power droop can cause instability if overclocking

[jagged snow]

Theoretically, you could see slightly better stability without it

[night girder]

Don't know why, but it doesn't look healty to keep doing this to cores for long times (years) 😒

[charred pewter]

all that fluctuating power and clock... can get antsy 😉

[jagged snow]

In anything but a solid-state system, it would be

[charred pewter]

i mean, typically, when im just sitting here doing nothing, and the pc is running... it should IDLE ......... drop the clocks, power use, and just sit twiddling thumbs

but something in windows11 is just not letting it happen

[jagged snow]

yeah

[night girder]

Well, if you bought a normal CPU

[jagged snow]

Try the performance power plan @charred pewter

[charred pewter]

if i bought a potato cpu, it would be like idling all the time 😉

[night girder]

uhu, we peasants need to think about ⚡ bill

[charred pewter]

yeah, i just went and set windows to the performance plan

[jagged snow]

US power is very cheap

[charred pewter]

where i live, my electric bill is so tiny compared to our INSANE GAS BILL 😦 so i guess its relative

[jagged snow]

I'm under 10c/kwh

[night girder]

pay 500 for a CPU that consumes more than other CPU.

[jagged snow]

Gas bill is also very cheap here

[night girder]

with 20 cores and you probably ever use 8 of em 😂

but hey, now you can render videos!

[charred pewter]

but given that we used to keep a 150 W light bulb (maybe two, or three) on all night outdoors ..... just eliminating those to LEDs, now i can run my PC full blast and still save money 😄

[night girder]

Or what is one of those reasons every gamer keeps buying em? Streaming.

[charred pewter]

streaming lol

i should start streaming more

and do game giveaways during them

a next year idea

[night girder]

You sure? You might need a 14900K for that.

[charred pewter]

🤔 ... IM ON IT! 😆

[night girder]

24 cores 🦾

max: 253 W 👌

[jagged snow]

@charred pewter this is what usage on preferred core looks like on my chip on performance power plan

[charred pewter]

two machines side by side, one for handling streaming, the other for web browsing ! YES! I see the light now

[jagged snow]

This is with many applications open though

[night girder]

yeah, but frigid it goes to 5700MHz and then drops down 😒 Your picture looks normal.

[jagged snow]

Frigid's chip clocks way higher than mine... that's pretty standard behavior to see

Mine's jumping back and forth between base & boost

[charred pewter]

oh, yeah, ignore my graph shot, i didnt adjust the 'max' on the graph right yet....

[jagged snow]

Oh wait sorry, that was on balanced power plan

[charred pewter]

balanced jumps about, performance just slams it to the top

[jagged snow]

Oh weird

[charred pewter]

this is what its now after switching to performance:

[jagged snow]

Hmm

Is that on just one of the P cores?

[charred pewter]

thats all

[jagged snow]

What is your total cpu usage according to task manager?

[charred pewter]

1%

[jagged snow]

Oh weird

Where are you changing the power plan?

[charred pewter]

my e-cores are all idling away ...

Control Panel, System and ... uh ... crap

[jagged snow]

Did you forget to install chipset drivers?

[charred pewter]

Control Panel > System and Security > Power Plan > High Performance

nope, those are all up to date ok

[jagged snow]

Huh

[charred pewter]

when i drop to "Balanced" ... then my clocks jump all over from base to boost ...

[jagged snow]

That jumping around is more or less expceted

[charred pewter]

yup

[jagged snow]

It's just weird that it's not using the e cores at idle

[charred pewter]

right lol

whatever is churning on my two pcores...... when im doing nothing .... is odd

[night girder]

Still, why is your CPU constantly running at 5700? 😒

[jagged snow]

Frigid, have you updated bios from what came with your board?

[charred pewter]

yup

[jagged snow]

This is very common with 13/14th gen

[charred pewter]

it was a rev behind

[night girder]

This makes no sense?

[jagged snow]

It doesn't really

[charred pewter]

its clocks are at 5700 ... but its not 100% using that

[night girder]

A idle CPU, just running at full throtle? And then go down. And then full throtle again. For idle?

but it's runnin at 5700MHz while it shouldn't!

I mean, my CPU is on an average of 240Mhz. Discord and idle more or less.

[jagged snow]

Set back to balanced power plan, then go to the advanced settings for the power plan

[charred pewter]

its like setting your gpu to not jump from base to boost clocks ...

[jagged snow]

What are the min and max values there?

[jagged snow]

That's as it should be then

[charred pewter]

yup

[jagged snow]

Try enabling EIST in the bios if it isn't already and disabling Intel Speed SHIFT

[charred pewter]

its just those two cores ... keeping it from actually staying at 5% idling ... and i checked, and it is the p-cores, not the e-cores

[night girder]

checked bios?

[charred pewter]

bios are almost fully defaults right now (except fan settings)

and xmp on

[night girder]

👍 A lesson I learned the hard way.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, try enabling EIST & disabling Speed SHIFT

[charred pewter]

ive also 'quit' steam ... so its not that in the background lol

[gilded helm]

We all became addicted to USB-C power at this bar where I DJ. I donated the power strip with USB, and someone else gave the cable.

[charred pewter]

im wondering if its not just simply msi afterburner DOING that much ... lemme see, how to monitor with turning off monitoring ....

[gilded helm]

Now we just swap the USB-C cable at the shift change. And Ethernet.

[night girder]

another thing you can do, is safe boot and check CPU usage (to exclude 3rd party software, such as MSI afterburner)

[charred pewter]

seems to still be doing it, not as much, but still doing it on those same cores (watching with different monitor apps at a time) ...

gonna go look at bios

[night girder]

you running some benchmarks? To put some pressure on those cores?

[charred pewter]

EIST is on

Intel Speed Shift is 'auto' ...

anyways, seems the issue is just windows doing something on cores it probably shouldnt be which just gets in the way of the system properly idling

im not going to concern myself too much with it, its a game machine, not a sit and hum machine 😄

[night girder]

TVB?

And Turbo Boost Max will favor the two fastest cores.

[charred pewter]

blasting it with prime95 now

[jagged snow]

Try disabling

[charred pewter]

gpu is like 'huh, my boy over there is getting warm... you k bro?'

cpu is sweating a 79C max temp right now ....

weird, thats cooler than my 12600k would get with the same p95 test

my 12600k would get to 98 C

[night girder]

It's normal.

(was looking at wrong clocks before)

[jagged snow]

What's the relative power draw?
Also could be a difference in die placement under the ihs or better application of thermal compound

[jagged snow]

The only part that's abnormal is that it's not using the e-cores at idle

[night girder]

Yeah, just saying it so I don't add to the confussion.

[charred pewter]

heh 500 Watts peak

yeah, i think i need to get a new PSU

although i dont know any game out there that would use all cores at maximum like prime95

[jagged snow]

Plenty do during level load etc

[night girder]

Yeah, but not that much 😂

[charred pewter]

games of 2024 will finally be optimized for mega-core cpus

Star Citizen will release too

[jagged snow]

Side note - currently shopping for a new phone and I'm looking at a oneplus 9/9 pro but I'm a little worried about screen burn-in since there seem to be a lot of them out there with burn-in problems
Any of you have experience with that gen of oneplus devices?

[charred pewter]

not me, naw... just got a cheapy droid a10e

[night girder]

sorry, i iPhone.

[jagged snow]

Also, comparing some specs

The T-Mobile version of the oneplus 9 is significantly different than the unlocked version