off-topic-tech

[silk hemlock]

@dry pike what I was suggesting, gtx3070, i7, is a couple rungs down from top of the line. Still very good but because it's not new new significantly cheaper

you could go all out and get a 4090 ofc xD

[dry pike]

xD

[jagged snow]

Going new and/or top of the line is a very bad idea usually

[dry pike]

yea cuz hte prices generally go down a lot after a new gen comes out correct?

[silk hemlock]

well, unless money isn't something you ever think about

like if losing 10k on a bad deal just makes you shrug your shoulders you can probably splurge on top end PCs.

but that's not me xD

[winged valley]

Thats how it used to be but not so true anymore

30 Series retail prices have hardly gone down, secondhand prices have also hardly gone done

At least relative to time passed

[silk hemlock]

depends on the world economy - there's been stupid shit like crypto mining that's tossed things for a turn, but generally the 30 series is significantly cheaper than 40

[winged valley]

That last part is true yes

But that's not because prices went down, its because 40 series increased them

[silk hemlock]

relative pricing is also a thing. 1000$ now isn't worth what 1000$ was on the market 2 yrs ago

[jagged snow]

Simultaneously true and not at the same time

[winged valley]

Also the absolute scam NVidia tried to pull with the 4070 was shit

[dry pike]

what scam?

[winged valley]

It fluctuates

[silk hemlock]

I heard something or other with 4070s but never looked into it

[winged valley]

When the 40 series was first announced/released, NVidia tried to sell a "4080 12GB" or something like that

But upon inspection and comparison, it should've been released as a 4070 or 4070TI

NVidia all but admitted fault, and changed the naming

[dry pike]

u think it was on purpose?

[winged valley]

100%

They've tried that before back in uh

[jagged snow]

They never actually released it, but that's only the most newsworth of their naming scams this gen

[winged valley]

800 series?

[winged valley]

They released it under embargo. There were boxes on store shelves with a sticker over the 4080 that changed it to 4070

They were completely intending to release it

[jagged snow]

40 series naming is designed to make you think you're buying a higher tier card than you actually are, and they're still massively overpriced even if the naming was perfectly accurate

[dry pike]

thats crazy

[jagged snow]

Of that I'm aware, but I didn't know any boxes actually made it to shelves

[dry pike]

so overall definetely go for 30 series?

[jagged snow]

Or go amd

[winged valley]

True, 40 series is basically the 20 series all over again

[jagged snow]

Just look at the fact that they're considering na 20% msrp cut on the 4080

[silk hemlock]

I mean 4000s are better - but if saving a significant amount of cash is something you'd like to do? yeah go a 30

they aren't THAT much better imo

[winged valley]

Like FoF said, or go AMD

[jagged snow]

4000 is way worse than 2000 imo

[silk hemlock]

orly? in what way?

[winged valley]

There is nothing wrong with AMD. Yes their flagship doesn't really compete with NVidia ATM, they still have good cards for good value

[silk hemlock]

some issue I haven't heard of?

[jagged snow]

The performance/dollar is very similar to 30 series... the prices went up by almost exactly the same amount as the performance

More in every card but the 4060, 4060ti, and 4070 iirc

[silk hemlock]

yeah - you can talk to the people at the nerd shop - see whats a good value in your area

[silk hemlock]

ah so 'better' but not really a good deal

[jagged snow]

And the fact that they're pretty short on VRAM(imo it's intentional to force upgrades sooner)

[silk hemlock]

mostly I was just watching comparisons between 30s and 40s online and all the differences where things I didn't care about or barely noticed

[winged valley]

"Picks up hot air gun with malicious intent"

[jagged snow]

They're also packing their product stack with a massive number of skus

[dry pike]

whgats an sku

[winged valley]

shopkeeping unit

irrelevant to tech, basically its a product number

Anyways, all I want for christmas is 4 16Gb GDDR6 chips 🥺 idc what frequency they are its for a laptop

[dry pike]

very interesting, thank you all for the help ❤️

[twin dew]

You didn't provide the VID and PID numbers yet to see what the GPU is set to be.

Because those are the thing that is used to determine if driver is allowed to be installed or not without manual forcing.

[winged valley]

VBIOS is on an 8 pin SPI chip on the card

[twin dew]

Question was more about where on the PCB on the specific card.

[twin dew]

Because the intention is to desolder the chip, program it with another VBIOS, resolder it.

But I really would like to get those VID and PID numbers to see what the GPU is set to be currently.
Problem is that the drivers don't work on it right now.

[twin dew]

But I would like to check if that is actually needed or not first, but need the VID and PID first.

[sand saddle]

Their flagship competes, just not with Nvidia's own flagship.

[dire igloo]

7900xtx costs less than 4080, it's not meant to challenge the 4090

[edgy hazel]

WE CAN GO FURTHER

[sand saddle]

Damn

You got a window open or smth?

[edgy hazel]

It's like 19C in my room

[sand saddle]

Lol

[edgy hazel]

Temp isn't even the issue. I hit 87 on my Hotspot

[sand saddle]

I mean it shouldn't be much higher in my room

[sand saddle]

I mean clocks get reduced and instability increases even before hitting the throttle limit

[edgy hazel]

I'll try to keep it down a bit more tho. Dropped the voltage and am already seeing more fps

At least I think so

a bit better

CPU might be a bottleneck tho. I hate cpu overclocking...

So I will not do it 🙂

[dusk rivet]

dewwit

[tribal kraken]

Whats the CPU score and which CPU?

[edgy hazel]

this is mine compared to the number one

[charred pewter]

btw i realized why passmark is hot trash in my score results ....

it "weighs" the results with a heavy penalty because i wont run it as 4k

[mental oriole]

Because everyone runs 4k...

(I dont btw)

[charred pewter]

right ... and apparently having it RENDER 4k (yet only display less) is out of their programming expertise

[edgy hazel]

it's just cuz passmark is hot trash. Timespy extreme runs on my 1440p without issues

[charred pewter]

like 3dmark does ... 3dmark doesnt seem to care

accurately places me in the right spot

i should probably buy 3dmark at some point... need to wait for that 75% sale

[sand saddle]

Timespy is free if you just want to bench

Demo

[tribal kraken]

Time spy/extreme cpu test is heavy. When I assembled my DDR5 Z690 system, it booted and could play no problem for couple of weeks. Then tried Time Spy and it always crashed on CPU test. Ramped up RAM voltage from XMP 1.35 to 1.40V and it fixed it for until Asus released new Bios with better DDR5 stability

[sand saddle]

It's the most relevant anyways

[dusk rivet]

the power of christ compels you

[charred pewter]

yeah, would be nice to have the save and load of results features though, and the extra tests for cpu/ram

[edgy hazel]

yeah I mean I know the x3D isn't that RAM dependant, but I still got my ol ddr4 gskill 3000mhz in there which isn't the best

[dusk rivet]

still sad there aren’t any 64gb ddr5 dimms

[charred pewter]

ddr4 is still the bomb

you mean as a single stick?

[dusk rivet]

yeah

they only go up to 48gb

which is an unholy number and will never be placed in my computer

[edgy hazel]

I mean there are. Just not for you

[dire igloo]

I love that the reason for X3D CPUs being less RAM reliant is that their cache is so large that they no longer need fast RAM

[dusk rivet]

yeah lemme just go beg a ram manufacturer to let me buy a custom ram kit

then probably sign 8 different nda’s and other agreements to never sell it

[twin dew]

RDIMM have 64GB sticks, but currently only Samsung has 32Gb DDR5 dies in public as coming.

Which would allow for 64GB UDIMMs

Ok, Micron is sampling those too.

[sand saddle]

You can save by having your result links somewhere
Better free cpu/ram tests out there anyways

[twin dew]

IIRC couple of MB manufacturers have already run 4x 64GB sticks of DDR5 in their MBs for total of 256GB of RAM.

[dusk rivet]

can i get a layman’s version of this

[twin dew]

So coming, just not in retail yet.

[twin dew]

Registered DIMM (extra chip on address lines to boost the signal), which are server stuff vs. Unregistered DIMM which is what consumer machines use.

IMC needs to support RDIMMs if you want to use them, and Intel and AMD consumer CPUs don't.

And with DDR5 RDIMMs use 12V input, UDIMMs use 5V, and are not pin compatible.

[dusk rivet]

so no 64gb ddr5 sticks for me unless i want to spend an absurd amount of money on server stuff

[twin dew]

Before you could use UDIMMs in machines supporting RDIMMs too, not anymore.

[twin dew]

In pipeline in UDIMMs as the MB makers testing and validating the stuff shows.

So I would expect mass market availability in 6 months or so.

Max.

[dusk rivet]

right around the time i’ll be buying the new pc

nah i’m not actually gonna get a 2x64gb kit

just curious

[charred pewter]

curious, why do you need that much ram?

[dusk rivet]

i don’t

i’m sticking to 2x32gb

[charred pewter]

ok, why do you want that much ram? 😄

[dusk rivet]

though one game i play is wonky and hard caps the number of mods you can run in a stable manner based on ram capacity

50mods at 32gb or so

[charred pewter]

wtf ?

[dusk rivet]

yeah

run more than that and you’re basically guaranteed to crash within 10 minutes of playing

64gb should be comfy

also lets me have more npcs spawned at once

[sand saddle]

Mods can do that

[dusk rivet]

it’s actually the raw quantity of mods, not the actual content or anything

which is really weird

[sand saddle]

Yeah, isn't there a mod to deal with that? 🤣

[dusk rivet]

doubt it

[sand saddle]

You got mods that fix the game, and then you got mods that fix problems caused by mods

[charred pewter]

i used to do that...

i was part of a team that would bugfix and consolidate a bunch of mods into a single install for pirates of the carribean .... fixing bugs caused by mods ... i used to be good at it =p

[dusk rivet]

modding community is dying in that game rn because it’s been forever since there was an update

though it’s not their fault, they’re pushing for their 1.0

[tribal kraken]

I get sometimes low ram warnings with SolidWorks on 32GB but been so busy that forgot look for good deals on 64Gb kits at black friday

[dusk rivet]

ddr4 or ddr5

[tribal kraken]

DDR5 6400 cl30

[cyan crescent]

anyone know what this program is that keeps clipping?

[swift shuttle]

any help ?

[twin dew]

Wrong channel, verify game files per #patch-notes . If doesn't help, ask on right ones.

[swift shuttle]

thx

[stray badger]

Steelseries moments i think

[pure karma]

i dont think i have ever seen a laptop screen that isent a instant disappointment

48hz half color range at 720P and 60hz like 70% color range at 768P bruh

[dire igloo]

No HDCP wtf

[sharp oasis]

Buy framework lol.

I actually donr know how good their displays are

I think they are decent

[twin dew]

There are ok and good laptop displays on the market, but not in cheap laptops.

[sharp oasis]

I mean framework ainr cheap

[twin dew]

In general.

[sand saddle]

My friend got a 4k oled laptop with 100% dci P3 coverage. For some stupid reason he doesn't have an srgb setting.

Some asus software that lets you configure it. Some laptops have the settings, others don’t.

Idk how else you should change it

[twin dew]

ICC profiles to some extent.
GPU Driver color output settings to clamp the range as another possibility, if the display takes 10 bit input.

[sand saddle]

Right, I'm stupid. Forgot he had a gpu.

[twin dew]

Even Intel drivers support that IIRC.

Yup.

[sand saddle]

What should I tell him to do?
Ig it's just a manual configuration, no preset srgb.
Adjust the sliders so it doesn't look as awful? Lmao there's a chance he fucks it up more that it is.

[twin dew]

Not much more you can do without meter.
Having another ok/good display next to the laptop one with same picture open helps.

[sand saddle]

Yeah

[jagged snow]

There are some online calibration tools that you can use to help you get sorta close

[sand saddle]

How good are phone displays lmao?

[jagged snow]

But not good enough for precision work

[twin dew]

All over the place and intentionally overcolored usually.

[jagged snow]

Really good coverage of color space if it's oled, but terribly calibrated

GS, you could have him try windows built-in calibration feature

[sand saddle]

Hmm, dell e223 is ips with 94% claimed srgb coverage, could use that, possibly has an srgb mode to use.

[jagged snow]

But again it's likely not calibrated

Try this 🤷‍♂️
www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/learning-center/how-to-color-calibrate-your-monitor

[sharp oasis]

Hmm yes. 48.6ghz

[sharp oasis]

For android isisnt there a option to try to calibrate the colours

I haven't had like it seem miscalibrated on my pixel 6 compared to other phones I've had

But I can't compare them as they are using different display technologies

[edgy hazel]

phones tend to have very different colours

calibrating a phone screen also seems like a waste of time

just change your display setting to how you want it

[sharp oasis]

My pixel seems a fuck ton more vivid. The black is super actually black. Vs like LCD still kinda being grey ish

[edgy hazel]

that's normal on an oled??

[sharp oasis]

Yeah

Ims saying in comparasin thb

[edgy hazel]

like that it's the main selling point of them

[sharp oasis]

Im not particular enough to really figure out if a color is miscalibrated or not

It just does look nicer

And haiveung a FHD display rather then 720p

[edgy hazel]

almost all oleds look better than LCD

and for what do you need accurate colors on your phone?

[sharp oasis]

Nothing really

So it would be indeed a waste of time

I've only owned two Oled phones. One was a Microsoft one and this current one

[edgy hazel]

I've set up a bunch or iPhone 14s recently and they had a lot of variation in their color

[sharp oasis]

Oh. Damn

[edgy hazel]

that's not the focus of a phone screen tho

[sharp oasis]

Yeah ig

Adaptive colour seems to saturate the reds a bit more depending on what's on scene

Reds and blues.

But also there's no sRGB setting

[edgy hazel]

I have no settings at all lol

[sharp oasis]

Damn

[edgy hazel]

ArrowOS

🤷‍♂️

[sharp oasis]

Ahh. I can't do that atm

Not till January

[edgy hazel]

Switching to lineage soon tho

[sharp oasis]

I'm still on android

Almost stock android

[visual tree]

My home status has been updated to "FTTA rollout". Finally getting fiber soon 😄

[maiden coyote]

The chip is off. Ill dump it, and maybe rewrite it with what I think it needs, and if it doesn't work I'll write the original back on and get the vid and pid

[jagged snow]

That depends on the rom

LineageOS does

[sharp oasis]

I'm running stock rom

Ik ik donr buy an android unless you intend to modify the shit outta it.

I just can't be assed to

[jagged snow]

I still have oneUI on my phone

[sharp oasis]

I have Googles close to stock android

[edgy hazel]

[jagged snow]

I'll be switching to a fairphone 8 or something from oneplus and throwing lineage on there within a month though

[jagged snow]

That's not as bad as discord

[sharp oasis]

And a 3rd party launcher

[edgy hazel]

discord never fixed the error 😦

[sharp oasis]

Idk wether I wanna go back to stock launcher

[visual tree]

My galaxy S9 is surprisingly still alive and working well (stock ROM) after 4 years

[sharp oasis]

I haven't found a launcher I really liked.

Pixel is okay

Microsoft launcher is not much different

[edgy hazel]

s9 gang

[visual tree]

Too lazy to install a custom ROM now since the phone is 4 years old

Hope it will last 5 years

[sharp oasis]

Smartlauncher seems okay. Wants me to upgrade to pro so I have more options.

I can't be assed at all

[visual tree]

Can't believe Samsung actually produced a smartphone that lasts for more than 2 years

[edgy hazel]

use lawnchair

[sharp oasis]

Isisnt compatible with android 14

[edgy hazel]

fuck we're at 14 already

[sharp oasis]

Prolly Google being fucky

[visual tree]

I lost track of new galaxy phones. Don't know what's the last phone model 😅

[sharp oasis]

Like not giving the pixel 6 face Id even tho it has capable hardware

I'm currently using smart launcher 6

[jagged snow]

s23 released a few months ago

[visual tree]

They release new models like each year, hard to keep a track

[jagged snow]

Recently, the phone models have linked up with the yera

We'll have the s24 in q2 2024 iirc

Nope, looks like early q1 for announcement

[sharp oasis]

Yep

[visual tree]

I'll probably buy galaxy a series when my phone breaks down since I only need a phone for basic stuff

Don't need something fancy or expensive

[jagged snow]

I wish there was a truly budget phone that focused on the features that mattered to me

[sharp oasis]

I find the pixel 6 was a nice buy but Def not a bus get phone yet

[jagged snow]

battery life & durability are going to be two of the biggest selling points in a catergory like that

[sharp oasis]

$500 cad

[sharp oasis]

Motorola G Power 2023 has insane battery life and is pretty durable. At a major expense

You have abysmal cpu power

And a rather lacking display

[visual tree]

Since I work for an ISP, I can get a new phone for a big discount 😄

[jagged snow]

Yeah
I'd hope to pay sub 300

[sharp oasis]

It's sub 300 canadian

[jagged snow]

I really don't care too much about performance or screen

Oh is it?

[sharp oasis]

Lemme Che k

Check

[jagged snow]

Oop, lack of nfc would be a dealbreaker

I use a yubikey

[sharp oasis]

Shit

[jagged snow]

Otherwise it'd be a good option

[sharp oasis]

Hold on lemme see if there's a bit better up

@jagged snow you okay with referbished

The Samsung A53 seems okay

[jagged snow]

I'm planning to buy used

[sharp oasis]

Kk

[jagged snow]

My current consideration is the oneplus 9 or a zenphone 8

[sharp oasis]

Uhm

Question:
What carrier you with

[visual tree]

I miscalculated how old my phone is. It's actually 5 years and 7 months old

[jagged snow]

Currently on AT&T but I want to go with something unlocked next time around

[sharp oasis]

As the A53 the cheapest option is locked to Tmobile

And idk how to remove carrier locks

[jagged snow]

With difficulty

[sharp oasis]

Tho Samsung is notorious for carrier bloat as well

So I may just disregard Samsung.

[jagged snow]

Yeah, my AT&T samsung has been a fairly poor experience

Remember that I'm putting lineage on it

So I won't be using oneUI on a samsung anyhow

[edgy hazel]

y'all made me do it...

[jagged snow]

Heimdall 🤣

[sharp oasis]

Uhh. The pixel 6A is an option

$309 CAD

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B9JVZQTH?tag=gsmarena093-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

Pixels surprisingly have some of the lowest bloat

Basically almost completely stock android

[rotund hamlet]

I have one, it's ok

[sharp oasis]

You will have to deal with some quirks.

[rotund hamlet]

no major perks or flaws, it's a phone

camera could be better but it's the budget model so I'll live

[sharp oasis]

One. Flaw. Exynos modem.

[rotund hamlet]

?

[sharp oasis]

Tho this is on the midrange 6

Exynos modems are dogshit for efficency and signal

I actually cannot run 5g bc of how bad the power draw is

[rotund hamlet]

mine is alright

[sharp oasis]

Ahh

[rotund hamlet]

I can go a full day on 5G on one charge

[sharp oasis]

They may have fixed that with the 6A ig.

[rotund hamlet]

with light mobile gaming

[sharp oasis]

Didn't fix it with both the 6 and 6 pro

[sharp oasis]

My phone gets 18hrs to a charge

And 5g brings that to 6hrs

[rotund hamlet]

oof

[sharp oasis]

And I can go almost 14 hrs on LTE+

[maiden coyote]

it's not a W7100... it's a barco 7600.

[sharp oasis]

Tho some reminders are.
Fingerprint sensor is fucky if you finger is the tinyest bit dirty. Or if the screen is dirty. Screen protectors can kinda interphere with it as well.

[clear garden]

Why is my browser and my spotify doing this ?

Ignore the content of the playlists

[jagged snow]

Have you tried just restarting your pc?A

[clear garden]

yes, I am scanning for viruses as we speak

so far nothing

[maiden coyote]

hm.. old bios is 512kb.. new bios from techpowerup is 128kb

[clear garden]

Fixed

spotify reinstall and brave hard restart through TM

[rustic panther]

On the 6?

[sharp oasis]

All of the 6 series

[rustic panther]

I was asking cuz I own a 6 and I haven't had much issues with the fingerprint sensor

[sharp oasis]

I own a 6 and it's been hell with shop work

[rustic panther]

Ah, shop work, then it makes sense

[edgy hazel]

we doin it bois

(on my backup s9+ first ofc)

and we're in baby.

[tough owl]

Wuss. Gotta test on main

[visual tree]

Can someone borrow me €2 million?

[obtuse geyser]

Any intel fans here?
Looking to repace my ryzen 3600, and current am5 offerings don't look too good. Might as well change platform.
Just mighty confused about intels processors.
Need something with ddr5 support and about twice the [single core] speed of my old cpu. What are my options and are they affordable?

[jagged snow]

ddr5 support has been present since 12th gen

I'm curious what makes you say that am5 doesn't look good though?

I'd reccomend a 13500 if you did decide to go intel

6 p cores, 8 e cores, total of 20 threads

Boost up to 4.8

[jagged snow]

And this reccomendation is assuming that you wanted to stay in a similar price bracket(it's also really the only offering that falls into the "budget conscious" catergory)

[obtuse geyser]

AM5 boards are ridiculously expensive, ~250$. AM4 or intel boards for that matter are circa 100$ full featured.

I would rather spend 100$ more on intel cpu if I were to swap biards and pocket the 50 change.

[jagged snow]

That's not nececarily true... good quality boards can be had in the neighborhood of 125-150, especially right now since it's the holiday season

And with intel you'd be looking at spending a little more for a board if you went with the latest chipset, but if you go back to last gen chipset they're a little cheaper since they've been around longer

[obtuse geyser]

Does chipset matter VS cpu? Need new chipset for new cpu and ddr5?

[jagged snow]

For your purposes, you'd be looking at a b760 or b660 board from intel or a b660 board from AMD

[charred pewter]

eh, depends .... like same socket lga1700 intell, will take a 12/13/14 series cpu, but the motherboard might be still z690 with old bios and wont know what to do with 13/14

[jagged snow]

All z690 boards have bios flashback, so that's not a problem

A good combo would be the MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI with a 7600 on the amd side

[charred pewter]

yup, thats a good board to use

[jagged snow]

And all boards purchased now should come with a new enough bios version to support 13/4th gen

[charred pewter]

my msi pro z790-a was one version shy on bios to support 14 series

but it flashed fine

[jagged snow]

On the intel side, ASUS PRIME B660M-K D4 with a 13500. Similar pricing, the amd setup has better single threaded perf and support for faster memory at the cost of some threads

[charred pewter]

although, i think it would 'work ok' but the bios were optimized for 14 in the next rev

i do like MSI boards though.... they have a nice solidness to them, and good heatsinks on the pwr

[jagged snow]

That sounds correct, I don't think there's actually any additional requirements to support 14th gen, at least in a workable state

[obtuse geyser]

That board locally costs more than the CPU you listed 😂
[ok, it can be found 20% cheaper than my main shop, but still, almost the price of not so cheap cpu]

[charred pewter]

its also nice they dont run the RAM leads right under the cpu heatsink mounting points 😄 ... i scuffed a couple ASUS boards due to that

[jagged snow]

Oh fun... it's selling for 130 usd on newegg

[charred pewter]

tryng to spin the cpu heatsink standoffs in, would scuff up the leads to the ram, and caused ram failures LOL ... ahem...

[obtuse geyser]

Europe, different prices.

[jagged snow]

Yeah

Let me switch to eu pricing

[obtuse geyser]

At least manufacturers started placing the nvme slot above the gpu slot, not directly under it.

I spent good deal staring at gigabyte and asus boards scratching my head, wondering 'wont that just melt' and 'how does the ones with heatsinks even fit in'?

Another confusion point - why does intel has two core types? I understand mobile phones and laptops, but why on desktop?

[charred pewter]

yeah, an m2 that gets wedged under the gpu is kinda effy ... i like to have some space for air flow !

the one that sits between the gpu and cpu is toasty, but at least there is a channel i can send air down over it

even one of them tiny lil 20mm fans work nice to move air in that spot

[obtuse geyser]

under gpu, it is literally blasted with gpu waste air in 90% of gpu designs.

[charred pewter]

yup 😦

thats what the heatsink is for! to protect it from the blasts! 😆

ive got my game data m2 up there between gpu/cpu ... and my os m2 is way down on the end of my board where there is nothing going on

[jagged snow]

It allows for more single threaded performance on a high thread count chip within the same power budget

When running a game, the fast cores can be more or less entirely dedicated to the game so it gets the maximum performance, while the rest of the os tasks can get offloaded to the more efficient e-cores, thus allowing the p-cores to maximize the power they consume

[obtuse geyser]

Why not just have more p cores for unified design? even if they consume couple W more, this is desktop, not battery operated device.

[charred pewter]

whats really crazy is just how many e-cores are on a 14 series ....

[jagged snow]

Because they are more expensive to produce, take up more space on the die, and on a chip that's limited to 100w you want as much of that 100w to be running important tasks as possible

[obtuse geyser]

Uh, wouldn't having all P cores and no E cores run the important tasks up to power budget get more important work done?

[jagged snow]

Then the non-performance critical tasks would be eating cycles on e-cores

[charred pewter]

when windows correctly determines what should go where, the e-cores work out good

its when you get a game throwing some threads onto e-cores and you get weird peformance swoops ...

[obtuse geyser]

[Looks at windows throwing threads between cores at random]

[charred pewter]

going in and turning off those cores for the game exe works... or if your board supports it, hit scroll-lock to toggle e-cores on/off

[obtuse geyser]

In that case, you basically have an x-core cpu with P cores and all e cores you paid for disabled?

Trying to determine if my upgrade target of "2 more cores than 3600" should be 8P cores and ignore the rest, or 6 P cores and hope OS can run on whatevers left.

[charred pewter]

it depends on the game though... many newer games dont really run into the issue, so having your e-cores on take the load off the p-cores the game is using

but even new games have issues .... like hogwarts ran better when i launched the game, then disabled e-cores for the hogwarts.exe

other system stuff could still use the e-cores, because i dont disable them in BIOS

[obtuse geyser]

How does satisfactory run on such hybrid architecture?

[charred pewter]

seems fine

[sand saddle]

As fight or flight said, it's more like 120-180

[obtuse geyser]

Location, location, location. 200$ was cheapest I found. Only looking at full atx, but still for am4/intel those go for 100$ locally.

[sand saddle]

Full atx is your problem, you didn't specify that when making your 250 claim

[obtuse geyser]

I just consider that a standard. there might be some itx boards for cheap out there, but they would look like dwarf in a SUV.

[sand saddle]

mATX makes the most sense for 99% of the buyers

It doesn't have the ITX tax that you get from trying to fit so much on so little and doesn't have the ATX tax of having connections most people don't use.

[obtuse geyser]

Still doesnt explain why am4 (eg MSI B450M-A PRO Max) goes for 70$ and am5 (MSI PRO B650M-P) is 150$

awful local prices 😕

[sand saddle]

Pcie gen, pcie lanes, way better VRMs, more back and front IO, a more complex socket

I'd look at asrock a620 or b650m pro rs

Or b650m HDV, just no rgb headers

[obtuse geyser]

I don't care for rgb. In fact, I will be mighty pissed if it cannot be permamently disabled.
Was really happy when I discovered my aorus gpu remembers rgb-off on hardware level.

[sand saddle]

The HDV is a solid no gimmicks board tbh

[pure karma]

thats practically what i ended up doing just ajusting the colors until i got it to a wish version of a 144hz color range

[jagged snow]

There has been a lot of adjustments made to the scheduler behind the scenes to make it work properly

[obtuse geyser]

sadly, its too short and only one usable pciex with my gpu. Which means no expansion cards at all.

[jagged snow]

Don't forget massively increased complexity for ddr5

[sand saddle]

You got a 3+ slot card?

[obtuse geyser]

is ddr5 actually better than ddr4? I only saw glimpse of timings and got frightened.

[sand saddle]

Yes it's better

[jagged snow]

Timings are looser, speeds are way higher

[sand saddle]

Primaries don't even do much for ddr5

[jagged snow]

Nope

[obtuse geyser]

The damn thing might as well count as 3,5 slot.

[jagged snow]

When you're running at double the frequency & timings that are twice as loose it's the same latency overall

[obtuse geyser]

ddr5 does quad rate?

[sand saddle]

And what expansion cards do you need/use?

[obtuse geyser]

secondary tiny gpu for extra screens.
And if board doesnt feature 6ch audio jacks (almost none do), I will be adding audigy-something.

[sand saddle]

Pcie audio is very dead

[sharp oasis]

It's fine otherwise. Bur the slightest amount of dust and nope

[jagged snow]

The vast majority of boards have support for 5.1 now

[sharp oasis]

How does 7.1 surround work with one cord

[obtuse geyser]

Support, yes, for 10+ years now. But many models do not have 6 audio jacks, only 3 and that becomes a problem.

[jagged snow]

Why would you need 6 jacks?
Two channels per jack has been the standard for ages

[obtuse geyser]

spdif. or optic. if you have setup for it.

[rustic panther]

Do you have a 7.1 setup that uses it?

[sharp oasis]

I have a headset that uses 7.1

[rustic panther]

And it has 6 cables coming out of it?

[jagged snow]

It's usb

Not truly 7.1, just a simulation

[sharp oasis]

Ahh

[jagged snow]

And it's more like 7.0 anyways since there's no sub

[sharp oasis]

That makes more sence

[obtuse geyser]

While mic and line in can usually be retasked as extra outputs, I'd also like to plug in headphones. or anything else.

[sand saddle]

It's 2.0

[sharp oasis]

So virtualized

So razer scammed me lmao

[jagged snow]

Simulated 3d tho

[rustic panther]

Oh dear, Razer

[obtuse geyser]

there are actual physical headphones with quadro speakers ℹ️

[sharp oasis]

They are nice headphones tho

[sand saddle]

Doesn't make the headset any closer to 7.0
You can enable dolby atmos on any 2.0 or some other software, dolby costs a bit.

[jagged snow]

The standard is typically 6 channels out & one in on the rear io, and headphone/microphone on the front panel(either combo or seperate)

[sharp oasis]

Can't use it with my phone well tho

Bc the USB C to 3.5mm seems to add issues with the audio signal

[sand saddle]

And most games don't have accurate/proper surround sound

[sand saddle]

Get a higher quality one, they make really good ones nowadays.

[sharp oasis]

WT, hell let loose, ready or not. are some that do

[sand saddle]

Ones that rival dedicated dac/amp boxes that cost multiple times more

[sharp oasis]

Ahh I have like a cheap $20 one from the local computer shop

[sand saddle]

The cost isn't the problem

[obtuse geyser]

6 out and one in require 4 jacks. boards have only 3 as standard.
And my front panel audio is physically inaccessible by the virtue of chasis having them on top and my desk having 28mm clearance under sliding part xd

[jagged snow]

Boards have four as standard

[sand saddle]

This is high quality: www.aliexpress.com/i/1005003290593135.html

[jagged snow]

Unless I'm really just loosing my mind

[sharp oasis]

Like my headphones don't normally have issues with high frequency sound at all. But the adapter adds a ton of noise with higher frequency sounds

[obtuse geyser]

I almost never cseen a 4 jacks. 3, 6, sometimes 5 if one spot taken by spdif/optical, but never 4

[sharp oasis]

Where on the equalizer I have to really Tone the high end down

[obtuse geyser]

standard arrangement - three. may have six (two stacks)

[jagged snow]

Might be an older thing then, but either way you need to account for front io

[sharp oasis]

What about usb audio

Is that a possibility

[obtuse geyser]

It is, but that equates to having an usb audio card dangling around

[jagged snow]

Or buy some quality usb headphones

[edgy hazel]

You mean an external dac?

[sand saddle]

Most games are stereo and don't actually offer any surround support and all the surround is just software, not reality

[jagged snow]

Which are hard to find

[sharp oasis]

Ahh

That makes sence

How the fuck to they make the surround sound illusion then

[sand saddle]

Can't test surround with stereo headphones, need to have an actual surround system for it

[obtuse geyser]

I still plan on getting a good quality pci-ex sound card, so I can keep it around in my future builds. Pci-ex is going to stick around for some 10-20 years I presume

[edgy hazel]

An external DAC is basically the standard if you wanna bump up the audio quality reliably

[rustic panther]

computers are very smart :)

[edgy hazel]

USB headphones sadly limit you to USB only output

[sand saddle]

Sound cards are dead

[jagged snow]

Not entirely

[sharp oasis]

I mean my pixel got an update for whatever Ai it has for photo processing

[obtuse geyser]

Consider them an easy way to add audio jacks.

[jagged snow]

They're still usefull if you want toslink out or midi support

[sand saddle]

But if you're not spending very much, quality usb-c to 3.5mm sounds surprisingly good

[sharp oasis]

The one feature that's locked to pixel phones the magic eraser works a bit better

[rustic panther]

I think they mean compared from USB

[edgy hazel]

Which basically is an external DAC no?

[sand saddle]

Yes

It indeed is

[obtuse geyser]

I would still prefer it being mounted in my chasis for convenience

[edgy hazel]

Convenience ?

[obtuse geyser]

convenience of not having yet another usb thing dangling on my desk

[edgy hazel]

Going to the back of my PC isn't really convenient

[sharp oasis]

Oh

This is for me. Bc of the adapter I need for audio on my phone

[obtuse geyser]

I only plan on plugging things in once and leaving them be, I dont reconfigure my audio every week.

[edgy hazel]

Those ain't dangling around tho

[rustic panther]

Those are nice

[edgy hazel]

And they're not inside your noise chamber

[rustic panther]

I have a focusrite scarlett 2i2 myself, also big recommend

[sand saddle]

And this isn't on your desk:
Provided this is meant for headphones, not a surround system or smth more complicated.

[rustic panther]

honestly that's for phones more than anything

[sand saddle]

They rival boxes that cost multiple times more

[rustic panther]

I don't see an XLR input or a 6.5mm output, so I doubt it tbh

[sand saddle]

Look at the US apple dongle reviews. It costs $10

[obtuse geyser]

home users usually don't need xlr or large jacks.
Heck, my at2020 is on usb so I didn't have to mess with another piece of equipment

[sand saddle]

Multiple times more doesn't mean you should compare it to $100 boxes

[rustic panther]

I've had 2, they both broke in 3 months :V

[sand saddle]

Yeah, that's the downside of the apple one

So I generally recommend smth with higher build quality

[rustic panther]

Sounded okay though, but honestly I was tired of the constant breaking of the daisy chain that's getting wired earbuds to work on mobile

So I got bluetooth buds

[sharp oasis]

I have Bluetooth buds but I don't like them too much

I for workouts I use my nice headphones

Bc they donr fall out

[sand saddle]

Venture Electronics Abigail CX31993 supposedly has good audio and build quality.

[rustic panther]

I honestly love them, noise canceling is insane and I don't know how I lived without it for so long, but it's a fair opinion to have

[sharp oasis]

They fall out of my ears too often

[sand saddle]

But there are many sub $20 options really

[rustic panther]

That's fair

[sharp oasis]

Especially with workouts

[obtuse geyser]

I take its not din-5 one?
(Now I wanna see din-5 to usb-c abomination)

[sand saddle]

Standard usb-c to 3.5mm

[obtuse geyser]

you must have so tiny hands!

[rustic panther]

Well, they're mostly meant for wired buds to be put in a mobile phone

[sand saddle]

Idk, took the pic from an aliexpress review lmao

[obtuse geyser]

ah, the old times when phones had actual audio jacks

[obtuse geyser]

oh, so tiny asian hand, that makes sense

[rustic panther]

o7 3.5mm jacks

Those were the days

[sand saddle]

Specifically bought an used S10 plus for my dad for that exact reason

[rustic panther]

Does that have good homebrew android support?

[obtuse geyser]

My S4 is still working with no screen scratches.
[lineage on it is awful tho]

[rustic panther]

Oh the S10 is from 2019 what the heck, why are they on the S22 now???

What is this foul wizardry

[obtuse geyser]

its called chrome versioning

[sand saddle]

No?

Android 12 lol

[rustic panther]

Still under security updates?

[obtuse geyser]

you start with 1.0, then go 1.1, 1.2 etc, then when you reach 3.0 you start numbering every minor change like 4.0, 5.0 etc. You end up with 78.1 what would notmally be an 1.78.1

[sand saddle]

Idk

[charred pewter]

11% off on the RM1000x now ... if anyonwa was waiting for one... sadly no sale on the HX1000i

[sand saddle]

Old

[charred pewter]

shame they dont have a newer rm1000x model ... that ISNT that 'swift' one (which wont even work in any case i have lol)

[obtuse geyser]

how many gpus you run off that thing?

[charred pewter]

1000w? ... might power one 4090 ... 😆

[obtuse geyser]

so 2x4090 and basic 100W cpu?

[charred pewter]

🔥

[sand saddle]

I'd rather buy thermaltake gf3 than rmx tbh

[obtuse geyser]

thermaltake is not very good psu manufacturer. I've seen couple instances when their psu was the problem of pc instability.

[sand saddle]

They don't make their PSUs, neither does Corsair

GF3 1000W and RM1000x are both made by CWT

[charred pewter]

google is really pissen me off.... but im TRYING to search for microphones that are good to use with 5.1 speaker systems (so they don't pick up the audio as much) ... but all it keeps showing me are microphones that capture 5.1/surround sound ... not what im looking for ... 😡

[sand saddle]

Huh?

[obtuse geyser]

Q: is there any point at looking at intel cpus other than F or perhaps KF? the ones withkout F are more expensive bacuse of built in gpu, so useless for gaming pc?

[jagged snow]

The k sku is only really needed if you're going to be overclocking

[obtuse geyser]

google for cardioid/supercardioid and dont point them at speakers

[jagged snow]

The f sku is fine if you want to save a few bucks but it makes troubleshooting way easier if you have the igp

[charred pewter]

intel "F" gpus lack the igpu

[sand saddle]

A good microphone picks up all sounds pretty much.
You need proper positioning and to configure it in software like gain and add a noise gate,

[rustic panther]

depends on your usecase though

[obtuse geyser]

a good microphone has known polar pattern. A tight pattern and not having the rear speakers directly behind you should work.

[charred pewter]

hm. ive tried moving the mic i have all over, and messed with discord settings. .. but whenever ingame 'characters' talk (voice), discord thinks its me and transmit that back to my brother lol. otherwise it seems to ignore other in-game sounds

[rustic panther]

Yeah

[rustic panther]

Do you just wanna use it for Discord?

[obtuse geyser]

headphone mic an option?

[charred pewter]

basically, discord, and possibly 'on' if im trying to stream over OBS ... the reason none of my streams have me talking, is because i dont like playing games with headphones just so i can stream while talking 😉

[sand saddle]

Noise gate helps if your voice is louder than whatever comes out of the speakers

[rustic panther]

I'd immediately jump to the Samson Q2U

But that's because I use it and I'm happy with it

[charred pewter]

noise gate, might work... if i can bolster my voice output ...

[sand saddle]

MPM1000U is one of the best USB mics and it's cheap so I can recommend that, but honestly doesn't sound like they need a new mic

[charred pewter]

i was thinking there might be mics out there that are more directional, so as not to pick up speakers behind it, behind the monitor, or to my sides

[obtuse geyser]

what kind of mic you have @charred pewter ?

[charred pewter]

its some random USB desktop mic ... something by TKGOU

[obtuse geyser]

basically, a cardioid mic. or even a tube mic.

[sand saddle]

Tried raising your mic above eye level? Or don't have it on an arm?

Can angle it a bit to the right or left

[charred pewter]

ive tried moving it pretty much hanging over my keyboard aimed right at me ... it just picks up all around it

[rustic panther]

I don't think fiddling around with it will help much if the room is filled with audio

[charred pewter]

yeah, it just picks up 360 it seems

[sand saddle]

Well, if the speakers are on the desk and the mic is above the eyelevel, it shouldn't hear the speakers as well

[charred pewter]

need something more ... "tubular" 😉

[tight relic]

What causes this "unable to find a session with that id"?

[obtuse geyser]

stupid mod idea - take a roll of paper and glue it around the end of the mic. Might help.

[sand saddle]

Lmao

[rustic panther]

honestly, not the worst idea

[charred pewter]

or use the 'dog anti-scratch collar' 😄

[rustic panther]

cone of shame your mic lmao

[charred pewter]

right lol

[rustic panther]

There's also speakers on the side and in the back IIRC

Also, cheap mics just tend to pick up everything in my experience

[charred pewter]

for me, my 5.1 speakrs are directly to my sides, and then in front, with the center back behind my monitor. i've adjusted the creative panel to make those 'side' speakers sound a lot like they are behind me

[sand saddle]

Voicemeter banana is a free software which allows you to add a noise gate and much more, don't know if there's a better/simpler software out there

[charred pewter]

that plugin to OBS and possibly discord?

[rustic panther]

You could try if your audio volume is significantly lower than your speaking voice volume

[charred pewter]

im such a quiet talker 😦

[rustic panther]

Then you need to start yelling or turn down your volume :V

[obtuse geyser]

if they are to the sides, a basic mic with cardioid pattern should work fine.

[charred pewter]

i think i should start with a mic that isnt just some $5 amazon special ....

[sand saddle]

That's how all mics should work, if you know what you're doing(I don't know shit), then you don't want the mic to have it's own noise suppression which hinders quality

[obtuse geyser]

Its called directional gain, and is something you want when recording audio. you want to record speaker, and not rest of the room around them.

[sand saddle]

Yeah, that's fair

[charred pewter]

like i wonder what Snutt uses... cause when he is doing his live streams, he is banging on his keyboard and clicking his mouse, and playing the game and hears game audio... but he isnt wearing headphones, or has a giant mix right up in his nose either

yet i rarly hear anything other than his sweet sweet voice 😄

[jagged snow]

Snutt usually wears a wired earbud

[obtuse geyser]

a good mic on boom arm = picks only talker and not the keyboard

[charred pewter]

ahhh, hidden up in that skull cap of his

[rustic panther]

That does depend on what you want to do and your room yadda yadda yadda etc etc etc

[sand saddle]

This mic is good: www.amazon.de/dp/B01GHOM67W
Needs an arm

[charred pewter]

interesting mic... pictures show people talking into the side of it

[obtuse geyser]

There are different mics for different purposes.

[rustic panther]

Yep!

[sand saddle]

Yes

Also depends on the budget

[sand saddle]

Iirc you were from Finland? Could be cheaper through amazon.se

[obtuse geyser]

actually, thats the 'front' of it. As most of this type of mics. The ice cone mics catch from the top I think.

[rustic panther]

oh jebus the q2u is 110 euros now? when I bought it I got it for 60

All I know is to not get the Yeti meme mic

[obtuse geyser]

dpends on model, they have good reviews.

[charred pewter]

right, i prolly wouldnt want to spend $500 ... but $30-80 seems reasonable

[rustic panther]

From what I've heard at least you can get better for 150

[stray badger]

I have an sm57 and its pretty good

A bit pricy tho

[rustic panther]

Only thing that it might be genuinely good for in the price range is if you need a stereo mic

[sand saddle]

MPM1000U is considered one of the best quality USB mics, going any more expensive usually means getting an audio system with an XLR mic

[rustic panther]

Yeah, it sounds pretty nice listening to it

[charred pewter]

quite annoying how amazon has hidden away 'questions' on product pages... you have to search now, i used to just like to browse what people asked/answered

[obtuse geyser]

just read the one stars.
Skip the obvious b*** ones and read ones that sound like genuine product problems.
couple one star reviews trump thousand 5 stars with generic praise.
It can save you from walking onto a literal mine.
Or you may decide the issue is not something you would care about and buy anyway knowing about it.

[charred pewter]

so yeah, this kind of mic i think will help me, as the most 'bleed through' that my brother gets for example... is when in-game characters are talking, which usually comes out of center speaker which is back behind my monitor. so a forward facing mic that blocks that crap would be very helpful

[obtuse geyser]

any cardioid mic should work for that

[charred pewter]

oh yeah "product reviews" must be read with "consider the source" in mind 😉

[obtuse geyser]

praise may be fake. Complains are 99% genuine

[sand saddle]

Imo no.
Need smth between 1 and 5 stars

[charred pewter]

i like the reviews of people complaining about the box it came in, or lack of a full color manual. im like 'yeah but whats the product like?!'

[sand saddle]

Complains can be personal stupidity or delivery issues

[obtuse geyser]

skip the "obvious" b*** like 'does not work' or 'wrong color'

[charred pewter]

and reviews of "fake product, didnt get what it says it is"... are usually 99% amazon fucked up, and not about the product itself

[obtuse geyser]

look for 'restarts randomly after a while'

[sand saddle]

Read a ddr4 4200 review saying it wasn't stable at xmp lmao

[obtuse geyser]

That could be very well true.
Either bad chip, bad mobo, or even crappy psu

[sand saddle]

Cuz it is

But it has nothing to do with the ram being shit

It's the CPU IMC

[charred pewter]

i once thought i had bad ram, turned out it was the board 😉

after trial n error testing all slots and sticks, discovered it was the board

[obtuse geyser]

Mine wouln't be stable at default 1.36V, but does +200mhz stable on 1.37V 🤷‍♂️

[charred pewter]

are most ddr5 high speed ram 1.4v+ ?

[sand saddle]

No

1.35V can be found at most speeds

And then there's fucking corsair with a 6000c30 1.4v kit

Overcompensating for god knows what

[charred pewter]

"just to be safe"

[obtuse geyser]

werent new ram supposed to run at 1.1V?

[sand saddle]

That's jedec

[charred pewter]

all the g.skill i was looking at were 1.4 too

[obtuse geyser]

can regular boards even output 1.4V to ram?

[sand saddle]

Yes

Actually, no

[charred pewter]

my rig 4 (3 revs ago) i have 1.5v and 1.6v ram for it ...

[sand saddle]

If I want to be a smartass about it

DDR5 has on the module regulation

[charred pewter]

g.skill, mushkin, kingston ... all were 1.5v-1.6v lol

[jagged snow]

Ddr5 voltage is supplied on the module

[obtuse geyser]

Oh, neat

[charred pewter]

and yeah, my latest g.skill are 1.4v too

[obtuse geyser]

Corsair has 6600mhz cl 32 64gb kit for not enormous money. Looks interesting.

[charred pewter]

seems like all these that are 6000mts+ ... jump to 1.4v on their spec sheets

all the ones under 6k, are 1.2v

[sand saddle]

Use pcpp filters

[charred pewter]

(for g.skill at least)

[obtuse geyser]

I wonder, do cpus even support 6000mhz?

[sand saddle]

Easily

[jagged snow]

It's comparable to running 3000/3200 ddr4 in terms of market/tech placement

[obtuse geyser]

wouldn't that simple translate to 'stay with your ddr 3200 cl16 until better memory gets made available'?

[charred pewter]

i see multiple mentions of people oc'ing their ram to 7000+ without issues ....

well, theres also the case that ddr5 'boards' offer more features, for newer cpus and builds ... than ddr4 boards ?

[jagged snow]

There are ddr5 kits that go to 6600

[sand saddle]

The performance isn't equal

[sand saddle]

Much higher

[sand saddle]

Yeah, just some luck, hynix ram and a half decent board should achieve it.

[charred pewter]

i doubt i will try ... i think my oc'ing days are behind me

i used to do the week long stints of tweaking bios and testing testing testing ... guh

[sand saddle]

Lol

[obtuse geyser]

What would be an rough ddr5 equivalent to 3600mhz CL 16 ddr4??

[sand saddle]

Performance wise? There's no direct comparison

[charred pewter]

"just gotta get that 100mhz more!!!! ..." another week passes....

[obtuse geyser]

there is always a direct comparison.

[sand saddle]

The crap ddr5 has higher bandwidth and latency. So if an application prefers bandwidth, shit ddr5 wins. If an application prefers latency, decent ddr4 wins.

[obtuse geyser]

Supposed to be 3200mhz ram, but only does 1799.6mhz 😂

[sand saddle]

That's 3600mt/s

[obtuse geyser]

oops? 🤣

somehow keeping cl16 and stable. good micron chips never disappoint

[dire igloo]

it's called double data rate

two data transfers per clock cycle

[obtuse geyser]

ddr5 does four, or was it gddr5?

[cyan crescent]

How are the samsung 990 pros? My main concern is longevity due to what i heard in the past about them dying really fast.

[obtuse geyser]

get smaller very fast nvme for os and games, and store data you actually care about on biiig regular ssd?

[cyan crescent]

This is going to be in my ps5

[obtuse geyser]

does it have cloud saves? you only need to care about user data

[cyan crescent]

I still need to download games.

[obtuse geyser]

unless youre on paid by mb plan, one disaster every couple years wont be significant

[cyan crescent]

I have a limited data cap per month. After that, im charged more. Military internet

[obtuse geyser]

That does make longevity a concern, yes. Look at amazon 1 stars, pick something that does not have dozen of 'lost my data' reviews?

[cyan crescent]

So I assume you dont know how 990s are

[obtuse geyser]

no personal experience with them

[cyan crescent]

[night girder]

Check out Lexar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPnqeAA9gN0

[obtuse geyser]

For write endurance you would want an SLC drive, which are not made anymo-
O damn, look above

[night girder]

I got that one for my PC* now and I am happy with it.

[obtuse geyser]

too cheap to be good

[night girder]

suit yourself 🤷‍♂️

[dire igloo]

Does that even need an SSD this high end?

[gilded helm]

I'm amazed marketing continues to make people think that this much thought needs to go into a SSD purchase. Just pick the cheapest thing off of a best of list and stop worrying.

[night girder]

Official sony website.

So the recommendation is faster than 5,500MB/s BUT...

These are the test results of slowers drives. So the seconds you see is how much longer it takes average to load certain games on the PS5 on slower ssd's. Mind, this comes from the verge.com so, take it with a grain of salt? They say, it's totally doable to game with a slower SSD.

[gilded helm]

Either way there are no mysteries any more. The PS5 has had plenty of SSDs tested, so you've got tons of options. Until DirectStorage becomes more widely used, there's not really much more to base a decision on. Even "slow" SSDs aren't noticeable in most PC tasks.

[sand saddle]

Overpriced

[night girder]

and the worst I see is 32 seconds increase for Yakuza Like a Dragon.

[charred pewter]

imagine a 32 second increase to boot windows off HDD vs m2

oh wait

[night girder]

It's up to everyone to make that descision in my opinion.

[obtuse geyser]

wonder how long satisfactory would take to load

[charred pewter]

or how long it would take to save every 5 minutes 😄

[charred pewter]

honestly im happy enough with my sabrent rocket for OS drive, and gammix blade for game drive

and both were cheap/onsale when i got them

[dire igloo]

For OS, games and general files: pick the cheapest one that ain't shit.

[charred pewter]

just dont buy anything from sandisk 😉

[dire igloo]

S50 lite is close to worst case SSD

[charred pewter]

model not brand be damned, sandisk is crap

[night girder]

Yeah, I think I am happy with mine too. My guild leaders had to laugh that I always load in quicker than he does even when he steps in first 😛

[dire igloo]

They've been bought out by WD, they no longer release stuff

[charred pewter]

oh my

[dire igloo]

But the stuff they make is put into WD SSDs

[obtuse geyser]

I have plextor m9peg, around 4 years old now, and sometimes fails to be detected :-/. Either drive dying or something with mb.

[dire igloo]

Yeah, the entire WD SSD production line used to be SanDisk

It's how WD entered the SSD market

[night girder]

You know what is confusing, these best guides tell different things for PS5

[charred pewter]

written by xbox users 😆

[obtuse geyser]

before ssd I used to run my mmo from ramdrive (has 16gb so 12gb ramdrive no prob).
When I teleported to new loc, I would first see the map and walk around, Then get a loading screen.

[dire igloo]

I've seen a lot of guides use reflinks for recommendations - so basically paid promotion

[gilded helm]

Console fanboys are so weird it wouldn't surprise me if there are troll guides out there

[dire igloo]

The more expensive the stuff is that people buy from your linky, the more money you make

[night girder]

All different 😂

[dire igloo]

All quite high end tho

[night girder]

62 seems doable tbh

[dire igloo]

Probably within margin of error

[night girder]

155 oof. 😛

Ah wait. They don't say how much TB. For the 62.99 Crucial T500

[dire igloo]

And: if they don't provide value (different recommendations from the others), people won't use their links

[dire igloo]

Definitely 1TB

2TB is 108 in the US

[charred pewter]

top pick! only $100 ! ... (has only 100gb)

[night girder]

Samsung (ssd) is a bit like Nvidia (GPU). People really stick to it sometimes.

[dire igloo]

Great pick tho, only other valid 2TB option in the US is P41 Plus for $80

[dire igloo]

Eh. At least Nvidia has a USP

AI, OptiX, CUDA

[night girder]

pcmag recommended the crucial T500 - so credits to them I guess for doing a good job 😄

[obtuse geyser]

they (samsung) still make their own flash tho? Some people like to buy product designed and assembled by single company.

[night girder]

Understandable. I am just observing. There is a certain loyalty.

[dire igloo]

It all depends on pricing

[dire igloo]

On the other hand, they won't buy an MSI prebuild

Crucial does the same, WD too

All made "inhouse"

SK Hynix and Solidigm too iirc

[night girder]

Like, why don't people trust Lexar? 😒 How can you know a product/brand is bad, if you don't give it a chance.

Especially when reviews look good on it!

[dire igloo]

"Never heard of it. If it was good, I would've heard of it."

[night girder]

I understand that people skip a product/brand based on bad reviews.

[dire igloo]

Paraphrasing here but that's why some guy in the PCPP server refused to consider Thermalright

[night girder]

I mean, I wouldn't know about Lexar. GS helped me with that. But I just looked at the data. Watched the reviews and it all looked very solid.

[obtuse geyser]

New brand = might not stick around long enough for warranty claim.
Buy samsung? they're definitely going to be around 5 years in future if anything goes bonkers.

[night girder]

Lexar was founded in 1996.

[obtuse geyser]

Thats not new, but not terribly old either. There are many brands that have been around for decades and have gained reputation.

[dire igloo]

It's very respectable in the PC hardware industry to be this old and still relevant

27 years, that's longer than I've been around on this planet

Older than Thermalright

Also, just because Samsung is an older company doesn't mean their storage division is as experienced.

Nintendo was founded in the 19th century, they didn't start with video games

[obtuse geyser]

Actually, samsung has been making hard drives for years.

[gilded helm]

Good ones too, the Spinpoint F1 was a top pick back when a 1TB HDD was a big deal.

You still had people using VelociRaptors at that point.

[dire igloo]

Also, the quality of an OEM to me is always tied to how many other companies use their products.

Unless they are exclusive to themselves (like any in-house SSD controller), that's an exception.

But how many brands use Samsung or SanDisk NAND vs Hynix, Micron or YMTC?

[obtuse geyser]

don't forget toshiba

[dire igloo]

They make SSD stuff?

[obtuse geyser]

they make nand chips

[dire igloo]

Weird, might've overlooked them on the SSD specsheets

[obtuse geyser]

and couple own ssd actually, but take the controllers from other cpmpany

they also make hard drives obv

[dire igloo]

Ohhhhhh they're with Kioxia somehow

Yeah, forgot them

Ah. Kioxia started off as Toshiba's SSD division

So yeah, they definitely exist, but not really under the brand-name Toshiba

[obtuse geyser]

toshiba ssd exist under their own name, but are hard to buy/oem parts.

maybe they don't make ssd anymore

but used to

Tech question: which 3mark test will best show CPU impact on overall game performance? Want to compare configurations using public results.

[dire igloo]

They had a spinoff company, Toshiba Memory Corporation, which is now operating under the name of "Kioxia"

According to wikipedia they were the ones who invented flash memory in the early 1980s

[obtuse geyser]

oh, makes sense

[dire igloo]

So while Toshiba is still technically active on the SSD market, they are better known under Kioxia

[sand saddle]

No

3Dmark tests multicore which from a certain point is completely irrelevant to gaming

[obtuse geyser]

3Dmark runs actual game simulation, in contrast to synthetic benchmarks that check base grinding of numbers.
I'm asking which test shows the cpu+gpu best, or none of them actually does?

[sand saddle]

3Dmark is best for GPU gaming performance

[obtuse geyser]

so it wont show 'real life' performance difference between 5800X and 5800X3D?

[sand saddle]

No

3Dmark doesn't care about the 3d cache

5950x and 7800x3d score similarly on timespy

[night girder]

real life is hard to mimick, since it depends on what games or programs you use

but what are good tools to test CPU?

[obtuse geyser]

I would assume 3dmark, running an actual game, would see any kind of difference

[obtuse geyser]

cpu number crunching? I use passmark site as reference.

that doesnt tell a thing about cache impact tho

[sand saddle]

For x3d, literally only gaming

[night girder]

Is this true?

[rotund hamlet]

3D v cache rips in gaming, with the tradeoff of having to cool it on raw clocks

[sand saddle]

Yes

[rotund hamlet]

so things that are actual compute intensive vs cache intensive will not benefit

[obtuse geyser]

Almost. 17876 for X3D vs 17561 for non 3d.

[sharp oasis]

Wish we could have the best of both worlds

[sand saddle]

OC the crap out of your ram, makes the cache less impactful

[sharp oasis]

It's hard on vermeer

I can't do 4000mhz 1:1 without whea errors like crazy

[rotund hamlet]

only to a point
you can't overclock the speed of electricity

[sand saddle]

Yeah

[rotund hamlet]

there will always be better latency at the cache level

[obtuse geyser]

what would perform better in satis: 5800X3D with extra cache, OR 5900X with 4 more cores?
especially large bases.

[rotund hamlet]

cache most likely, maybe look up some benches though

[sand saddle]

Ofc, that's why less impactful, not meaningless

[sand saddle]

cache

[jagged snow]

The x3d

The AMD x3d chips still nearly double the satis performance of any other chip from their respective generations in most cases

[obtuse geyser]

do we know the actual thread count limit for satis with all lumen and stuff enabled?

[jagged snow]

Theoretically infinite

Practically, it scales well to at least 16 threads

[night girder]

still need to check how the 7600X holds up for satis

[gilded helm]

Key things like autosaves are still probably bottlenecked by single thread performance

[charred pewter]

this felt so spot on ... i coulda wrote this ... kotaku.com/buying-stuff-online-store-sucks-2023-christmas-shopping-1851103408 (Buying stuff sucks in 2023)

i know i say i order most things from amazon ... but yes ... guh, the alternatives are worse here 😦

especially in regards to tech and parts and gadgets

[gilded helm]

Heh heh, I'll give it a glance later, but I've seen similar articles I bet. And it's not just the holidays, it's been obvious for a while Amazon has been trying to clutter results with junk items to make sort by cheapest difficult to use.

In addition to filters being terrible

[sharp oasis]

I've found a fun truck.

And ik yall will laugh

Bur the 2019 Ford ranger XLT

It's alot of fun to drive

[jagged snow]

The newer fords are pretty great actually

[sharp oasis]

270 on paper for 5500rpm

On a 2.3L 4cyl

Haven't tested but it feels like it still has more power then Ford is actually saying

And the 10 speed automatic is actually really nice for it.

Accelerates well. And when going fast it keeps the engine where I find the power is really good

5500-6100rpm

Might put a cold air intake on it

[jagged snow]

Ford has absolutely nailed the driving experience/performance with the new 10 speeds

Even if I still prefer a manual

[sharp oasis]

It's really really well done

220kph and I'm barley touching the red line.

Barely*

[jagged snow]

From the 2024 models I've driven, I like the feel of the new GMCs a little bit better

[sharp oasis]

Fair

[jagged snow]

But from a durability/repairability perspective, the fords are better

I'd love to pick up an awd maverick

[sharp oasis]

The mavericks seem actually cool

[jagged snow]

In the meantime, I might grab a Justy

Since I need something economic for my wintertime commute

[sharp oasis]

Yeah

And the ranger is a bit less efficient during winter

10-11L to 100km

VS 7-8 in summer

[jagged snow]

And the newer ones are still significantly out of my price range unfortunately

[sharp oasis]

Yeah they are not cheap

But definitely a wonderful truck

Really nice drive

It's also really stable. I find.

[jagged snow]

It's a very bad idea to purchase a new vehicle anyways

[sharp oasis]

We got the ranger used

[jagged snow]

So it's not really something I'd ever consider, even if I had the cash

[sharp oasis]

It had 20,000km on it when we got it

An I get to buy it off my dad when I enter the military

I really like the stability as well

It feels really stable. No wobbles or anything.

And the lane assist is kinda a cool little thing

[maiden coyote]

They're all aluminum.

They're nice, but they really don't hold up well in a collision.

Not that you should crash them. Maybe the rangers are steel body.. the f150s are definitely not

[jagged snow]

Aluminum doesn't straighten out well once it crumples either

[sharp oasis]

I think mainly aluminum

It has some bumper damage from hittinga deer

about it

[dusk rivet]

my computer when i boot up my minecraft save with shaders and 53 mods

[edgy hazel]

You can fix that easy

Just have way overpowered hardware for the block game.

[edgy hazel]

[twin dew]

Yes.
Most synthetic benchmarks are pretty well optimized and keep their CPU code tight, so they don't really use RAM much and work with small cache amounts.
CPU limited games in turn usually use lot of RAM bandwidth and aren't coded/optimized to keep their hot data in cache intentionally, so large extra cache helps, a lot in case of some specific games, like Factorio, Satisfactory, many simulation games etc.

And almost any game gets enough benefit from the X3D cache that they aren't slower, even with the lower clocks.

And on the extreme cases you get up to that double performance even with the lower clocks.

But the X3D just helps in RAM access speed (latency or bandwidth) limited cases, to keep the CPU fed and actually working, to some extent.
You can still overrun even the extra cache with bad enough code.

The extra cache is a "crutch" for unoptimized data-heavy code to keep the CPU cores fed.

[languid gulch]

few cars scare me more than the 2001 body style F150, mainly because of how many are still on the road

[tribal kraken]

Just yesterday one user complained in another discord that his Ranger had a gearbox failure at 3 years and 60.000km. Hes company has 4 more on lease. good luck 😄

[twin dew]

Well, if on lease, then it is problem for the leasing company usually.

[tribal kraken]

If im not mistaken The failed one was not on lease, hes private truck. But easy to use the company leased ones as leverage if theres any issues Ford covering the broken gearbox

[narrow folio]

Finally arrived, time to assemble!

[mental oriole]

I hate u-boot

It legit prevents you from doing stuff

Trying to change serial for stdin/out from default, to custom.
I can change device tree (it does nothing)...
I cant change environment variable it does not allow me...

[wanton orchid]

what is u-boot ?

[twin dew]

ARM boot loader thingie.

[twin dew]

Ok, for more archs too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_U-Boot

[narrow folio]

Baldur, you approve?

[twin dew]

About right, will spread out with that much but if that isn't conductive, then not a problem.
And shouldn't hit the capacitors yet.

[narrow folio]

NT-H1, should be fine to spill a bit

[twin dew]

And that stuff just cannot be spread manually.

It sticks only to itself.

[narrow folio]

I'm kinda interested in how it spread now that I mounted the cooler... but I just hope it went well and everything is covered and won't disassemble it just to have a look, clean it up and apply the paste again

[twin dew]

Will spread fine, don't take it off.

I just used the stuff in tests with NH-U14S with same application.

I just had the noctua paste guard so it won't go into the IHS slots.

This thing: noctua.at/en/na-stpg1

Just thin plastic sheet that covers the space between the IHS and CPU mounting mechanism.

[narrow folio]

Ah, nice thing. Too late now😁

maybe when I repaste someday I think of it

[obtuse geyser]

Wasn't asus on no-buy list for mb / in general?
Which ryzen you got?

[twin dew]

Why would Asus be on no-buy?

[narrow folio]

because of the >1.3V SoC?

[twin dew]

They had firmware problem that didn't shut the VRM down if the CPU was already dead on AM5.

Everyone had the CPU killing "bug".

Others just didn't keep feeding the dead CPU and burn the socket too.

[obtuse geyser]

there was big tech support drama with them some time ago

[narrow folio]

there was, yes. Fixed now

[twin dew]

The important bit affected ALL manufacturers.
Asus just had the most spectacular failures and also killed the socket, not just the CPU.

Because of separate issue with VRM management when CPU wasn't up yet.

[narrow folio]

7800X3D

[obtuse geyser]

envy+++

[twin dew]

Maybe I will get mine to actual usage before year changes...
Maybe not...

[obtuse geyser]

I see beQuiet psu. Not a fan of them. had one, ended up returning because it was the loudest part of my pc that took ages to find. Squeaky fan in company that calls itself for silence. And how the company rates their psu mtfb 10C below industry standard to look better.

[twin dew]

And that kind of thing is model (line) specific usually.

[obtuse geyser]

Such thing should not pass QC

[narrow folio]

I read that the power 10 was not really recommended because of some issues with fan noise and sometimes unstable supply. maybe you got one of those? I personally like Corsair, but this build is for... my mum

[obtuse geyser]

I swear by seasonic now. Expensive, but damn, hybrid fan kills and voltages are rock stable. (hybrid fan = fan does not spin until psu is more loaded = silence at last)

[narrow folio]

my Corsairs so far had this semi-passive mode too

fan starts at about 50% load, a reason more to go way above your used power😁

on the other side... if you push your system to 50% load of the PSU the PSU fan should be the last of your worries about noise

[wanton orchid]

I like that even the not so high priced seasonic hybrid fan PSUs have a hybrid fan toggle
so you can force it to spin all the time

[obtuse geyser]

Final checklist before ordering my 5800X3D:
Replacing ryzen 3600 ✔
MB is MSI B450-A Pro MAX, cpu is in supported list, will update bios prior ✔
Ram is not in QVL but vendor claims compatible with all ryzen. Was working fine with current cpu (2x crucial ballistix 16gb 3200mhz cl 16) ✔
PSU has over 100W spare power (550W, peak use at wall 430W) ✔
Have own 220W tower heatsink ✔
Satisfactory runs on about 40 fps with all cores 100% loaded. ✔
User has come to terms with high price and just wants this over after spending over a working day on research ✔

Anything I'm missing?

[twin dew]

And there is even more spare power, as the rating is based on what the PSU feeds onwards, and the wall meter measures input before losses inside the PSU.

And if the RAM works on current CPU, it will work with the 5800X3D, as the 3000 and 5000 series have exact same IO-die including the memory controller.

So for normal about 15% loss in the PSU, the system is using about 365W average.

[obtuse geyser]

Not worried about psu at all. Well, maybe when I swap to 6800 xt 😅

[twin dew]

So with the BIOS update to latest first before swapping the CPU, should work fine.

[obtuse geyser]

If I forget to update bios, I will have to install cpu three times

[twin dew]

Do the update today?

[obtuse geyser]

around that is the plan

[twin dew]

Already on 1.2.0.B which is latest AGESA for AM4 AFAIK:
www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-A-PRO-MAX/support
download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7B86vMK.zip

[obtuse geyser]

and maybe dust off and replace cmos battery. I didnt realize mb was 4 years old, maybe why I'm getting boot errors with lost drive 🤔

[twin dew]

No, if the CMOS battery is flat, you would lose time.
But when the PSU is connected, the MB uses the PSU provided standby power instead of the battery.

More likely bad cable if SATA.

Some SATA cables don't like heat and bow out in middle, causing bad connection over time.

[obtuse geyser]

nvme drive

so I'm worried the alternative is bad drive?

[twin dew]

Might be bad connection, might have been marginal PCIe link that might be fixed with new CPU.

[obtuse geyser]

it only started happening recently, and does not happen always, so some kind of wear?

That does not sound like an mb issue tho? wouldn't want to drop in new cpu for old platform, only to find out I need new mb next week.

[twin dew]

Shouldn't be anything on the MB end part of that system that could wear.
As the slot is direct to CPU.

[obtuse geyser]

wish I knew a way to detect/stress test this to find out whats broken

[twin dew]

So just the M.2 slot, then traces on MB, then the CPU socket, and then the CPU.

[obtuse geyser]

Also getting an annoying windows popup about 'drive needs to be checked for errors, restart[...]', but no scandisk happens after restart

[twin dew]

It doesn't show the window on minor cases, when the first step determines there wasn't actual need.

[obtuse geyser]

I love windows.
"you don't need to scan this drive" on all partitions.
Force scan on c:
"Vi finden errorz!"

also love how the progress bar starts with conservative "45 minutes" then jumps down to 7 seconds

[obtuse geyser]

5800X3D ordered, expected tomorrow.
I suppose no better options exist on that price point.
Need to bench test location in satis and see how fps improves.

[twin dew]

Use "stat unit" and "stat fps" console commands.
The "game" will be the time the CPU needs to run each frames worth of game logic.

[twin dew]

So that shows just the CPU & RAM, doesn't really care about GPU.

[jagged snow]

I'd expect it'd be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5x improvement if nothing else in your system is a bottleneck

[obtuse geyser]

5700 XT, running 1440p on all ultra, because it was getting bored 😂 . Planning 6800 xt when they go on sale

[jagged snow]

Sweet

[charred pewter]

4080 is a bit ... large ...

left is a 3080, right is a 4080 ... trying to dig up a shot of the 980 ... (the 980 is like TINY in compares to both)

thing is the 4080 is 80% heatsink 😆

well compared to my 3080, which was pushing 83°C almost all the time in anything ... the 4080 never went above 52°C in timespy