satisfactory

[whole drum]

More likely just an orientation issue with your position relative to the cursor aim

[nova ridge]

i moved almost 360 around it and no change

i have to deconttruct everything and try again

[whole drum]

Can also try cycling through the various build modes. Sometimes they behave oddly.

[nova ridge]

its very frustrating. my only workaround so far is to try to connect from a bottom pieces to a top piece

i can blueprint it right? maybe ill just make it into a blueprint

[fluid crow]

can place the floor hole after the pipe

[nova ridge]

what really?

well that doesnt help because i need something to connect it to

[wispy osprey]

#screenshots message

[whole drum]

Actually, looking closer, your floor hole isn't aligned properly with the foundation (mismatched elevation).

Rebuild the floor hole and try again

[lapis shadow]

Whenever you guys setup a new railway system do you bother hooking it up to your main grid using a priority switch? Lately I've made every single factory with a priority switch so that I don't risk tripping my power plant but I'm thinking railways will have a mostly negligible power draw compared to a whole assembly line, so they can just be hooked straight to the grid without priority switches for the most part right?

[wispy osprey]

What

Yes, just have everything on one grid including priority switches

[lapis shadow]

Uhhhh you need to go back to loopty loop school because that's just a circle

[nova ridge]

haha

like a rollercoaster you mean right

[lapis shadow]

Yes

[wispy osprey]

Do you mean an 8 circuit?

[nova ridge]

do you guys run a 2 lane or 1 lane or bidirectional train system

[fluid crow]

depends how much traffic

[nova ridge]

im contemplating changing my world single direction line to bidirectional.

i might just make a large bidirectional loop and connect it to the single direction

[wispy osprey]

Oh I know what you mean now

No there isn't a mod for that, trains don't go fast enough to go in a vertical loop

If they went like 5× faster, maybe

[fluid crow]

bi-directional is usually more of a line(s)

[nova ridge]

trains could be faster

[lapis shadow]

fr they barely faster than copper golems from minecraft

[wispy osprey]

Picturing a vertical loop is funny

[fluid crow]

trains are a luxury item

a dang nice one!

[wispy osprey]

It's mainly their carry capacity that sets them apart

[nova ridge]

should be reserach or able to add something like factorio uranium trains

[wispy osprey]

Even when you're packaging and transporting nitrogen trains are still fine

If you're like me and don't like fueling vehicles

[fluid crow]

I think the main difference is the train in factorio waits and these don't so you trash the overflow

[nova ridge]

is there something lik an LTN mod in satisfactory

[quasi warren]

Yay- time to get steel going-

[fluid crow]

oh you mean that run oiff fuel rods?

[quasi warren]

LTN?

[nova ridge]

its a mod that helps you control train behavior better in factorio

[wispy osprey]

I want actual delivery logistics
Give us daily and weekly quests to unlock furniture items

[quasi warren]

I use mods for furniture items

I have so many idk what to make now

Im using a discord rich presence mod for satisfactory, best one ive used tbh

[wispy osprey]

I'm aware there are furniture mods, there's a way to implement them in the game

SF still has more potential and desperately needs an endgame loop to keep me motivated

[lapis shadow]

What game do you prefer between factorio and satisfactory? And which would you say is a little more casual? I haven't tried factorio but sometimes I imagine it'd be a lot easier to manage things when I can just scroll around my entire map and have bird's eye view the entire time as well. Though I think I've heard that factorio can have more complicated assembly lines idk

[wispy osprey]

Base Factorio has no infinite resources

Satisfactory is much more casual

[quasi warren]

Factorio if you like the logistic problems. Satisfactory if you like aesthetics

[wispy osprey]

I'm pretty sure factorio can legit be used in a school, while satisfactory can teach simpler logistics

Both metagames involve a lot of math

[fluid crow]

isn't the map infinite

[coral marsh]

Just hit 130Gw with 5 fully powered alien power augmenters

[wispy osprey]

And procedurally generated i think, yeah

[quasi warren]

Yea

[wispy osprey]

So any time one thing runs out, you move to the next

[quasi warren]

It can. It teaches software engineering.

No im not joking.

[fluid crow]

don't let the bugs get you

[wispy osprey]

Thankfully bugs from pollution can be turned off

[quasi warren]

Not just that. The main busses you make can be referenced to lines of data flowing.

When data starts to lower. You backtrack to find out why.

And troubleshoot to fix the problems.

[fluid crow]

then there's the items with basic programming logic

[quasi warren]

The factories you make in factorio can actually be made into processor designss

[dense violet]

eh, satisfactory just has different logistics strats

[nova ridge]

i think neither are truly casual. but satisfactory is likely the better version to start off with. factorio can get intimidating with limited resrouces

[zealous urchin]

intimidated by pixels

[quasi warren]

Mhm. Most people play it for aesthetics

[nova ridge]

coming from factorio. satisfactory is pretty chill. unlimited resources means i dont have to worry about rebuilding

[lapis shadow]

If you're a big fan of Satisfactory then is it just a no-brainer to give factorio a go?

[nova ridge]

next gameplay i would mod it harder esp for movement.

ya

try the demo

[wispy osprey]

It's a lot easier to place mass amounts of buildings in factorio

[zealous urchin]

alot of ppl feel rebuilding is necessary thi since "its not perfect"

[dense violet]

nah, it's just much more capable of aeshthetics. You can get fancy with logistics + alt recipes to do fancy things.

like crystal purificaltion and silica distilation to feed a factory that needs both

[nova ridge]

satisfactory's blueprint sucks

[dense violet]

or toying with recipes to make super computers from only Caterium and Oil

[nova ridge]

compared to dyson or factorio i would grade it F

same with selecting buildings and deleting buildings

[dense violet]

that's because it's a very different game 🙂

[nova ridge]

all F '

its not user friendly. it makes the same job take longer. in a game about efficiency it isnt efficient

[dense violet]

go play factorio then ❤️ I wish teh BPs were smaller everytime someone complained

[whole drum]

It's up front time investment for long-term time savings. Each time you paste it, you save build time.

[nova ridge]

same with building and items overlapping.

[wispy osprey]

It's intentionally designed like this, if you don't make a system upgradable or efficient to begin with it'll cost you later

[zealous urchin]

sati isnt realy about efficiency

[quasi warren]

Ada has a quote about this. I forgot what she said tho

[dense violet]

I swear there was more bitching about BP machines now, than before they were ever implemented.

[nova ridge]

i think its ok to criticize what the game doesnt do well. it's not user friendly.

its different and unique

but like why can't i build something and just blueprint it after?

[wispy osprey]

A lot of factory games have a common criticism, weak endgame

[nova ridge]

does satisfactory have a strong end game? im working on phase 5 now so i dont know yet

[wispy osprey]

Golden nut and item min-maxing plus architectural design

I think that's pretty much it

[zealous urchin]

more than screws and quirkwire tho?

[wispy osprey]

Power min-maxing is a popular one

[nova ridge]

i see. so not really infinite mode

thats fine. not everything needs to be infinite

[dense violet]

yeah more than screws. Though I hardly ever hear bitching about wire.

[nova ridge]

i like when games end

[zealous urchin]

there rly isnt an end do architecture in this game

[dense violet]

I think people learn how to manage high throughput items better by the time the yget to high throughput QW

[zealous urchin]

ud be blown up very quickly seeing some yt stuff

[whole drum]

Play MGS1. It ends fast.

[dense violet]

thus less bitching

[wispy osprey]

I like when games end and have an infinite loop after that

I like having things to do with a game i love

[nova ridge]

endless mode is nice but not all games have it

and not all games need it. but i would think based on my experience with satisfactory it would be nice to have

i would like to turn the whole world into a factory

[wispy osprey]

Idk how hard set devs are on a static endgame

[nova ridge]

when was th elast update?

[wispy osprey]

The 1.2 trailer

[whole drum]

Turn the map into a Dyson Sphere

[spare cradle]

You would be able to taste the frame rate

Or just always be in complete darkness

[whole drum]

That flashlight coming in clutch, lol

[zealous urchin]

in utter darkness

[wispy osprey]

The main issue with world sized factories is Unity limits and GPU usage

Reminder that you'll run out of space before you hit the item limit

[zealous urchin]

(1h zerg swarm flashback)

[whole drum]

Get yourself some special eyes while in prison

[wispy osprey]

You can only make so much before your pc turns into a space heater

[zealous urchin]

u mean sharingan right 😆

[whole drum]

No, it's a Riddick ref

[feral jay]

Mine already is, literally... I have the heat in the office turned off, and with the outside window, my PC keeps the room as warm as the rest of the house when I'm gaming.

[zealous urchin]

that man has them g👀gles

[wispy osprey]

Sounds risky lol, as long as it's not going above 90C

[zealous urchin]

wait

there was a riddick game where he was in space prison

omg i remember now

[feral jay]

My office is only a few degrees cooler than the rest of the house

[zealous urchin]

thats is so old

[whole drum]

😏

[wispy osprey]

I did see that its possible to reach the building limit, needs a high end pc though

[zealous urchin]

i completaly forgot about since i watched it 11 years ago xD

[wispy osprey]

1 million is a huge and unrealistic number of buildings

[zealous urchin]

i wonder whats the performance differemce when u place 400 foundations and pillars compared to 400 working constructors

[wispy osprey]

Architecture doesn't take up as much priority space as buildings, this was intentionally designed like this

[coral marsh]

Hypothetical, if we were given mk4 miners and mk7 belts would the mk4 miner do 1500/min or 1800/min and what would be the speed of the mk7 belts

[wispy osprey]

Mk7 would be 3× mk4 miner

[coral marsh]

So 4500?

[wispy osprey]

Sounds about right

[zealous urchin]

yea sure
but is it like 5% 0.5% or 0.00005%
like what orders of magnitude
just wondering tbf

[wispy osprey]

I don't recall the exact amount of GPU architecture takes up

[coral marsh]

Wow

[wispy osprey]

1200 on mk6 is already crazy

[coral marsh]

Ofc

I just like thinking about these things

[wispy osprey]

I just know that it's enough of a small amount that you can place thousands of foundations without issue

Items on belts takes more GPU than machines producing those items, but machines still take up a good chunk

[zealous urchin]

one day we will play this game on 96gb vram gpu

[zealous urchin]

so turn off item rendering 😆

[wispy osprey]

I didn't know that was a thing

[zealous urchin]

u can reduce distance around which items on belt are rendered

[wispy osprey]

I didn't see the setting on ps5

Unfortunate

[zealous urchin]

realy?

im almost sure i saw it on pc seperately

[chrome kettle]

is it better to create factories that take in raw ores as input or creating smelting arrays for ore and factories that take in ingots?

[zealous urchin]

up to you realy how u wanna do it

ores and their smelting recipes are different tho

smth like iron initialy is 1:1

while pure uron chugs more ingots than ore

[dense violet]

you can produce surprisingly high tier products on location , more so if you scout out spots and use alt recipes

[zealous urchin]

while caterium is around 3:1 so way less ingots than ore

the benefit of making everything at one place is initial conviniece id say

however later on its easier to track resources globaly if u make it seperate altho it needs solid train network

[chrome kettle]

i guess my question is more , should each resource node only service one factory? is there any concern that you run out of resource nodes

[dense violet]

it can and often does service 1

and no, your computer cannot process all the nodes to end product. It'll catch fire first

[warm finch]

the only nodes you will find a hard limit on are sulfur and uranium

[zealous urchin]

shortly not realy
but it does make it easier for planning

[dense violet]

even then you have to ry HARD to use all the sulfur and uranium

you generally don't need to use all the uranium to have more than enough power

[drowsy kelp]

is there any way to place a foundation off the 45 degree rotations in the blueprint designer

[dense violet]

pretty much just for people whose goal is 'use all the uranium'

[warm finch]

LIES! 10 bajilian MW required!

[zealous urchin]

sulfur definately isnt a limiter to anything

uranium too

[dense violet]

are you holding ctrl while spinning?

[drowsy kelp]

i've tried that

[dense violet]

did you try spining it like that while it was on another foundation?

[zealous urchin]

if anything its sam and caterium but for whole map conversion

[dense violet]

eh, sam conversion is totally avoidable and you never need ficsonium

[chrome kettle]

ok so i guess a smelting array doesn't make much sense then if a resource node isn't used to feed more than one factory

[dense violet]

and you can avoid caterium recipes pretty easily

[warm finch]

or just add water

[dense violet]

I mean you can split the output from a smelter factory to multiple factories if you like 🙂

[zealous urchin]

the only cases id consider making a big smeltry is when doing pure recipes or all of bauxite from map in one place

however there was one guy who made 80k packaged water per minute 😆

outside of that its rly up to you

[warm finch]

I'm that kind of guy regarding bauxite lol

but damn, 80k packaged water? that's NUTS lol

[zealous urchin]

it is somewhere here

search for "stackager"

insane tbf

[warm finch]

bauxite is the only raw ore I centralize into 1 location for production since it isn't used for anything other than aluminum production

[dense violet]

bauxite is a pretty common centraliser

[zealous urchin]

bbut the battery for drones 😆

[rain hollow]

Can anyone help me with something?

[dense violet]

don't ask to ask, just ask 🙂

[warm finch]

no

[rain hollow]

Ok, bye

[warm finch]

but it's more fu n when they ask lol

[warm finch]

we're totally kidding. yes ask

[warm finch]

what about it?

[zealous urchin]

idk some ppl do it

[warm finch]

I just make solid batteries lol

[zealous urchin]

personaly im only concerned about alu casings maxing

[dense violet]

what's the issue?

[rain hollow]

I just re did all my oil production to seperate my fuel generators from my plastic, rubber, and packaged fuel. My packaged fuel is residual fuel, but my power production is normal fuel so it's making polymer resin but it's currently going into an industrial storage container and I don't know what do because I need a more permanent solution than periodically emptying it

[warm finch]

what to do with the polymer resin? add in a smart splitter and send the resin overflow from the ISC to the sink

[rain hollow]

Can you have multiple?

[warm finch]

multiple sinks? you can have as many as you want. the downside is they fluctuate in power consumption (edited)

[rain hollow]

That actually isn't a bad idea

Never thought about using over flow for the sink

[dense violet]

I could have sworn they shut themselves down after not getting enough items

[rain hollow]

Thanks

[feral jay]

Sinks do not cosume power when idle

[dense violet]

but with a constant source like resin they'd always be up

[feral jay]

Well, they consume 0.1MW

[warm finch]

oh? Must be a new thing to me. They used to always be up, TIL!

[dense violet]

hmmm I don't think it's new

like I remember trouble shooting people wondering what the 30mw dips were on graphs for ages and sinks being the culprit

[feral jay]

I'm doing a challenge run where every machine must run at 100% all the time, which means I need to sink a fair bit, but then the sinks fuck up the power graphs because they consume no power when idle

[dense violet]

def pre 1.0 though

[feral jay]

So the sinks need to be on a seperate circuit. I can tell if a sink is hooked up to the wrong circuit by a 29.9MW power fluctuation

[warm finch]

Now that I think about it more, you're right. I thought they were on a constant draw before and there was some debate about it until it was showed otherwise. I stand corrected

[rain hollow]

What tier do you start being able to make the contained uranium cell things you need for nuke nobelisks?

[warm finch]

phase 4

[dense violet]

7 or 8 like other nuke things

they're basically just a gimmick though

[rain hollow]

Yay, that's right after I complete the phase i'm on

[warm finch]

I use overflow to sink for multiple items in production. ESPECIALLY for things I do not want to have a back up and cause shutdown due to said back up.

[feral jay]

A really cool gimmick

[drowsy kelp]

The explosion alone is nice

Also does the AI limiters in the recipe mean the nuke nobelisks are sentient

[rain hollow]

I really need to change my steel production and seperate tubes and beams entirely because tubes are fine but beams take forever

[zealous urchin]

beans

[thorn cave]

just reached phase two should i abuse the awesome shop for motors or spend forever automating them

[warm finch]

you will need A LOT of motors down the line. best to set up a good production chain for them

[zealous urchin]

awesome shop kun does not deserve abuse

[warm finch]

also, tickets cost exponentially more in points each time a new ticket is made

[ebon scarab]

My factorio friend saying Satisfactory isn't hard --> me spawning in the forest --> get chased by rhino dogs for 30 minutes with infinite aggro range

Oh, and no map either

[thorn cave]

ohhh boy i cant wait for that...

getting to phase two was a pain already

[warm finch]

wait until you see what phase 4 requires lol

let alone phase 5

[zealous urchin]

game gets better with each phase since more qol is unlocked

[thorn cave]

i could only imagine the suffering that is-

[fluid crow]

the wild life in factorio isn't very hard either

[dusky hedge]

you can sidestep the small ones and jump over them, but run like lhell from the big ones

[warm finch]

the only suffering is self-induced if you try to make it by hand

[thorn cave]

so use blueprints?

[warm finch]

and set up production chains for EVERYTHING

[thorn cave]

everything?

[rain hollow]

I need to unlock smart splitters so I can put one on my receiving truck station to put half the packaged fuel delivered into the refuel tank on the truck station

[zealous urchin]

the only suffering is self induced

[thorn cave]

i unlocked that before getting to phase two

[zealous urchin]

bro is from brainrot to budda in one sentence 🥶

[deep bloom]

Fluid mechanics make no sense at all my goodness

[rain hollow]

Isn't that at the end of quartz?

[thorn cave]

i did every sidequest imaginable to prolong phase two bc im just THAT lazy

[thorn cave]

not if you find it from a crashed ship

[warm finch]

have you read the pipe manual?

[deep bloom]

I ought too

[rain hollow]

What do you mean? Can you unlock MAM research from crashed shuttles?

[warm finch]

highly recommend. it's a great basic explanation

[zealous urchin]

they are semi realistic so indeed they dont

[warm finch]

wrecked pods have various mats strewen about. Which can be picked up and used for MAM research

[dense violet]

make a post in #1038092680493801533 with what you're doing - pipes are simple when you know the basics 🙂

[deep bloom]

yeah oil is being annoying and is always empty in my pipes, I built one of those fluid towers but it made it worse haha, I ought to read the manual

[thorn cave]

so materials that youd normally find later in the game you can find around a crashed ship(plastic, computors, etc.)

[rain hollow]

Oh so they just got most of the crystal oscillators from those

[deep bloom]

Sure thing, let me just read over the manual then I will!

[fluid crow]

scan hard drives maybe

[rain hollow]

That's just alt recipes

[thorn cave]

thats how i got alot of research done without getting to phase 2

[dense violet]

the fluid manual has some important basic ideas, but also a lot of not super useful junctions created tools for management.

just a thing to keep in mind

[lapis shadow]

Do trains/cars have collision with anything other than other trains/cars? When not derailed of course

[lapis shadow]

Like do I need to worry about any trees/rocks clipping into the track?

[fluid crow]

the materials from the shuttles are more likely good for phase research

[dense violet]

no

not for trains.
cars will follow the path though and hit rocks

[thorn cave]

no

[lapis shadow]

When I said cars I meant train cars ofc. You mean the same thing correct? So engines will not worry about rocks but the freight cars will?

[zealous urchin]

u can use trains to get under the map

they literaly travel through ground

[whole drum]

Honestly wish they would fix that

[zealous urchin]

hey, free underground dlc

[whole drum]

I did a big MP game where a couple people doing that undermined the playthrough as a whole

[dense violet]

yup! you can clip trains underground if you like

[deep bloom]

I think I found out why it does not work, do water towers need buffers at the top

[dense violet]

depends what kind you make, but water towers are... kinda pointless

they are basically just an over complicated pump

[deep bloom]

I tried it anyways just in case

[whole drum]

Unless you know exactly what you're doing, fluid buffers are more prone to cause issues than fix them.

[zealous urchin]

wdym undermined? just built underground or ruined the experience somehow

[whole drum]

The latter

[dense violet]

if it's the kind of water tower where you need a valve, you need a buffer, if you just bring it up then down you down

[zealous urchin]

how tho

[deep bloom]

ah, good to know

[lapis shadow]

Well did you understand my follow up question? To me it sounded like you were saying the train engines are okay to clip but the freight cars are not. Is that true? Or can both clip no problem?

[deep bloom]

interesting I will keep experimenting

[warm finch]

remind me again: to maximize the 600m3 from an oil extractor, best to split immediately into 2 pipes with pumps after the junction?

Or is it a pump from the extractor and THEN into the junction splitting into 2 pipes?

[dense violet]

no I was saying trains, in general, all parts, can clip through terrain

[whole drum]

It was supposed to be a cooperate, collaborative experience, and a couple players doing that ruined that element and hid a bunch of shenanigans that went against the expectations of that lobby.

[dense violet]

rail, cars, engines, everything

[zealous urchin]

i see

[whole drum]

It basically boils down to poor etiquette and lack of consideration for others.

If everyone in the lobby was down for it, it would have been fine.

[zealous urchin]

personaly i like weird stuff
but hey servers have some rules and it all realy comes to communication density

[whole drum]

The 1st option

[warm finch]

Thanks. couldn't remember

[whole drum]

It was meant to be a vanilla playthrough, but that kind of exploity/unintended stuff soured it

[zealous urchin]

build beautiful buildings
log in and spaceelevator is upside down

[zealous urchin]

yea i agree

[feral jay]

ehhhh... it's kind of exploity, but if Coffee Stain wanted to fix it, I don't think it would be difficult... I'm pretty sure they left it as a possibility to allow another neat way to build stuff, another dimension to the game

[whole drum]

I don't know how easy/hard it would be to fix, or if they have any motivation to. It's just something I dislike in the game because it ruined a whole lobby.

[feral jay]

On the other hand, if they wanted underground building to be a thing, it stands to reason there'd be a more "official" way to do it

[ebon scarab]

How long do you sidestep before they go away, at spawn?

So far it seems like i'm being spawn camped by the mobs in this game lmao

[whole drum]

They do have a max leash range. You can use terrain to your advantage to escape. If they spawn close to where you do, you can just death rush them too.

[lapis shadow]

Are railways the same as conveyors wherein I can assume they will work no problem so long as the game allows me to place it? Since it prevents things like a turn being too sharp/steep etc.

[coral marsh]

If cave building became a thing, I want more uranium nodes, upwards of 1200 meters deep with a couple pure nodes on the way down

[dense violet]

pretty much.

[ebon scarab]

The forest spawn must be cancer then, I've died about 3 times

[coral marsh]

And more SAM nodes in the deep caves

[feral jay]

Cave building is already a thing, I've seen some pretty cool builds on reddit

[whole drum]

It's my fav starting area. You just aren't used to how to fight them.

[dense violet]

get the basic exploration gear from the MAM first before exploring

bladerunners, gun, better stick, zip line, parachute

critters become easy

[coral marsh]

Im meaning way deeper, like, caves and areas underground that are 600m in height

400m under the surface

[feral jay]

And the candy can basher, if you don't have that, because it's cool

[ebon scarab]

Hmm. gotcha. I'm on an island in the middle of the river with 3 of them trying to get me lol

[feral jay]

ohhh yeah that would be neat as a DLC maybe, underground cavern complexes

Not just the "ground level" caves we have now

[coral marsh]

Yea

[whole drum]

I heard they are working on a second map, but that may just be rumor. I haven't seen anything official. If they aren't, maybe adding more cave/tunnel systems and new resources underground could be really interesting.

[feral jay]

It could break a lot of saves though, I've seen quite a few where people have massive underground networks

[warm finch]

I would rather see a satisfactory 2 than a DLC. game is AWESOME and a 2nd one would be epic

[feral jay]

I'm thinking of an underground train network on this save, too

[whole drum]

There's no shot they are ready for a sequel

[feral jay]

Not sure if I wanna pull the trigger on that though

[warm finch]

There's a spot in the high desert where you can get underground VERY easily

[feral jay]

I'd rather see it become a living game, in the same vein as dwarf fortress

But that's just me

[whole drum]

Haven't played that. Wdym?

[feral jay]

There was never a 2.0, it's just been continually developed

For 20 years

[rain hollow]

If I make a track with a tractor can I put that track onto the autopilot for a truck instead

[zealous urchin]

dwarf fortress is such niche title

[rain hollow]

Because it isn't letting me

[zealous urchin]

and extreme rare case

[dense violet]

afaik you can set any vehicle to do it? but not 100% on that

[coral marsh]

It'd be fun, imagine a massive cavern that you can build a nuclear plant in, itd be so cool

[whole drum]

You mean like "games as a service" where it gets continued development?

[rain hollow]

I thought so but it wouldn't load the path

[feral jay]

That would be my preference over a 2.0 release, yes

But hey, it's not up to me

[whole drum]

Ah, I would definitely not prefer that, tbh.

[dense violet]

it's possible I'm incorrect sorry. I think I've only ever used trucks

[zealous urchin]

imagine x where you could do y it would be so z

[feral jay]

New maps though... I'd love new maps

[zealous urchin]

ada will generate u a new map how bout that

[whole drum]

Careful with that, lest people minimize anything you want to discuss.

[rain hollow]

I'm just going to re-record the whole path

[lapis shadow]

How many inputs does a fluid manifold have to split into before you should consider adding a loop to make things flow better? I'm about to make something that only splits into 2 refineries and I'm wondering if a loop would be mostly pointless

[feral jay]

It's not really about the number of splits, it's about the flow rate

[dense violet]

there's no strick number. Layout fluid pm number of junctions all affect things

but 2 machines should never need a loop

[whole drum]

It depends on the total input/output involved.

[feral jay]

You really need to start looping as you approach banks of machines pulling 600/min, at least in my experience

[whole drum]

But yeah, Cobalt is correct. 2 machines won't need it.

[feral jay]

(or 300/min, in the case of Mk.1 pipes)

[whole drum]

Or if your total manifold needs to provide more input than your pipe can carry.

[feral jay]

👆 or that, yes

[whole drum]

This is typical of the 3:8 coal gens setups

[indigo kiln]

Why is my smart splitter not letting me filter select from all items I have unlocked example it's only letting me do two of the slugs

[whole drum]

Maybe it needs the MAM research for it? Or maybe you typed the search wrong?

[indigo kiln]

Wait I can type?

I have apparently been using them like a nathandal and only using the list

[whole drum]

lol

[indigo kiln]

Yeah that's not the issue though when I search slug blue and yellow come up but not the purple

[whole drum]

This game has immense QOL build in. People learn new features all the time. 😉

Try "purple"?

[indigo kiln]

Nah

[whole drum]

Have you researched them in the MAM?

[indigo kiln]

Oh that could be it but that doesn't explain somersloops or tickets I have both in my inventory but can't search either

[drowsy kelp]

have you discovered the calculators everywhere

[indigo kiln]

I found two of them

[drowsy kelp]

quick search (n) is a calculator

every number input i can think of is a calculator

they're everywhere

[indigo kiln]

It can do factorials too

[drowsy kelp]

it is an actual proper calculator, yes

[indigo kiln]

Oh dear God I just put the alien protein on a conveyor belt and it's ground "beef"

[quasi warren]

is there any point to hold onto the ficsmas items?

i cant build the deco anymore

[indigo kiln]

I can't figure out how to get rid of them they don't go into the sink and I can't delete them

[fluid crow]

sloops might be the same deal of research. can confirm no coupons though

[whole drum]

Novelty

[quasi warren]

the event items?

[drowsy kelp]

alien protein?

[indigo kiln]

Yeah

[drowsy kelp]

turn it into biomass or dna capsules or something

[fluid crow]

make dna and put that in the sink

[quasi warren]

i have a few chests worth

[indigo kiln]

I have loops researched

[quasi warren]

idfk what to do with em

[fluid crow]

I do have them in the splitter list

[barren tulip]

dna capsule, then sink

[dusky hedge]

side step and wack em

[indigo kiln]

I'm sending them to a lazy crafting thing and then they're going into my biofuel generator that I was too lazy to destroy

[barren tulip]

works

[indigo kiln]

Mmmm I wonder why I don't then, I'm missing quite a few things

[lapis shadow]

How much headlift do liquids output from a refinery have? They don't inherit the headlift of their input at all do they?

[dense violet]

10m from all machines

and no machine headlift are not additive

[whole drum]

Unless they have sequentially increasing elevation, but that's not a normal build pattern 😛

[barren tulip]

backwards terrace farms 🔥

[hardy wigeon]

i was here crying about jetpacks last night lol i unlocked it this morning

still running the solid fuel tho

[sullen gull]

If you have refineries unlocked, it would be worth it to make a small setup for Liquid Bio Fuel.

[hardy wigeon]

yeah i just unlocked that now but tonight im in more of a chill building mood. im finally making my main factory all purty

jetpack is helping with the roofs thats for sure lol

[sullen gull]

Liquid Bio Fuel will give you a heck of a lot longer burn time and help with that even better fyi 😏

[hardy wigeon]

oh yeah i know this is my post 1.0 save

ive gone as far as nuclear

thats what i was crying about last night lol i went from jetpacks with nitro fuel and the building jetpack too back to the stone age

[whole drum]

Pre-hover it's helpful to build lookout towers and construction scaffolding to climb/walk around on, even if you have jetpack.

[hardy wigeon]

yeah i had a hell of a set up making the pipes running up to one of my coal factories lol

[feral jay]

yippee, the mod manager broke, they changed the libc version it's compiled agains

(broke for me)

[hardy wigeon]

i still haven't really modded much. i have a big cosmetic one i haven't really played with this save and a always day mod

[mystic crag]

I made it to tier 7, this looks like hell now

[hardy wigeon]

what do you mean?

[barren tulip]

tier 7 is unlocking what?

[whole drum]

Beginning of Phase 4, right?

[barren tulip]

could be, i haven't unlocked phase 4 yet

[craggy leaf]

quick question, if 3 constructors are producing 40 nails, if i merge all 3 belts into one, they should max out a 120 capacity belt with no overload right?

[whole drum]

That's like aluminum, nuclear, and advanced parts, iirc

[barren tulip]

sounds about right

[barren tulip]

i thought phase 4 is like mk 6 belts and material converters

[whole drum]

That would be a Mk2 belt, yes

Nvm... I'm just reading the wiki wrong.

Derp

[barren tulip]

i'm so confused

[whole drum]

No, T7 is P4. I was right.

[barren tulip]

so nuclear stuff is part of phase 3 or phase 2???

[barren tulip]

ok

[whole drum]

T7 is Hover pack and Aluminum processessing

T8 is nuclear, drones, Mk3 miner, etc

(I ended up short-cutting a lot of these milestones with stuff gathered from crash sites)

[hardy wigeon]

wait can I put coal in the jetpack for now?

its a lot more convenient lol

[whole drum]

Never tried

[hardy wigeon]

im out far from my base atm lol i can't experiment

but im omw to a coal node

[whole drum]

Just collect a bunch of grass and up it into SBF

[hardy wigeon]

im still on what i have left over from when this was my powersource

as far as those solid fuel things go

eh they will probably last me till i set up the oil

[whole drum]

It's not a great fuel for jetpack, but it's something

[hardy wigeon]

i miss nitro 🙁

[barren tulip]

oh, those aren't too bad

[barren tulip]

i would put fuel in the dimensional depot so you have them anywhere anytime

turbofuel and rocketfuel for jetpacks is awesome btw, worth the production costs

[whole drum]

Tfuel is pretty good. Rfuel is great.

[sullen gull]

They're meh.

[whole drum]

I consider LBF and Rfuel equal, but different.

[hardy wigeon]

the who and the what now

[warm finch]

I prefer biofuel for jetpack until I get to ion fuel

[whole drum]

Is this your first save after 1.0?

[warm finch]

you can go a LOOOOOOONG ways on biofuel

[barren tulip]

those are more endurance than sheer power

[sullen gull]

Shoulld really try some Ionized 😏

[hardy wigeon]

yes~

[whole drum]

I'm getting there

[warm finch]

Oh you're in for a real treat my friend!

[barren tulip]

ion fuel was rather underwhelming, we made a small supply and all of them are showed off on racks outside the JAB

[whole drum]

1.0 introduced a use for SAM. You should prioritize that tree in the MAM and be diligent in your exploration.

[barren tulip]

research alien artifacts

[hardy wigeon]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaah crap

[sullen gull]

Not great for power generation, but the goat for jetpack for sure.

[hardy wigeon]

ok that IS awesome but i haven't gone far into the world yet so thats a bit down the line

[dusky hedge]

rocket fuel is way better imo, but its not indoor friendly "|

[barren tulip]

i did use them for jetpack

[hardy wigeon]

well tomorrow im going far for oil

i should pass some stuff

[whole drum]

I totally misread that...

well tomorrow im going to jail

[hardy wigeon]

hahaha

[barren tulip]

ok but grab any alien artifacts you find along the way, dimensional depot is incredibly useful

[whole drum]

It's game-changing

[barren tulip]

it's awesome if you have bad memory

[whole drum]

What is?

[barren tulip]

not being able to remember why you went back to base, just to leave and realize you forgot to grab the material you went to the base for

[whole drum]

I was kidding 🙂

(Like I forgot what we were talking about)

[barren tulip]

ooh

[heavy pine]

And that's the FICSMAS facility torn down until next winter.

[thorn cave]

does anyone know if rocket fuel or ionised fuel is any good

[barren tulip]

rocket fuel is really good for jetpack

not sure about power gen

[thorn cave]

whats better for power?

mmm

[sullen gull]

RF better for power, Ionized for Jetpack

[dusky hedge]

nitro rocket fuel is easy to get early and can power a sht tonne

[barren tulip]

what the hell is nitro fuel

[reef basin]

that depends how do you define "good"

[thorn cave]

ima just use liquid biofuel since its so ez to make because of the amount of sloopage you can do

[reef basin]

anything can make you power, it mostly depends on which resources you want to spend for the power

[dusky hedge]

nitro rocket fuel sry

[thorn cave]

power like whats better for total power

[sullen gull]

You don't get Nitrogen access until Tier 8, so not sure how "early" that would be

[reef basin]

again, how do you define "better"?

[dusky hedge]

early enough to skip turbo, i had 3 g power when i went nitro, so i think thats pretty early

[barren tulip]

not sure what that is...

[sullen gull]

Depends on you. RF is "less steps" but can be a ton of generators. Nuke is great, but it's a but more "work"

[whole drum]

Tfuel is very easy to produce, so I often use that for basic power needs. I don't typically shard the gens for this.

Rfuel for power can be pretty effective, but I do shard the gens because otherwise it's just way too many of them.

[thorn cave]

like lets say you got 300 crude oil/min and you want to milk that node of every last bit of power you can get, so what fuel should you use to do that

[reef basin]

if you only have oil, then you only can do fuel

[sullen gull]

Rocket fuel

[whole drum]

Once you can/do set up nuclear, I would refrain from using more oil for power unless you somehow run out of uranium on the map.

[reef basin]

so alternate heavy oil residue -> diluted (packaged) fuel

[thorn cave]

ok

[sullen gull]

Or yeah, if no nitrogen access yet, just fuel can get you till the end of the game if one plays conservatively (I,e, not trying to make hundreds or thousands of items.)

[whole drum]

It depends on the recipes you have. HOR + Diluted Packaged Fuel can give a lot of Fuel for the oil, and if you can supplement coal/sulfur, you can up it to Tfuel if you want.

Really depends if you want to spend the resources on it tho

[thorn cave]

i got plenty of resources

[reef basin]

most of the other fuels just turn other resources to power, but tbh diluted fuel can carry you to nuclear easily

[thorn cave]

im in the experinced place, the right side of the map

[dusky hedge]

with the 8 legged friends or 4?

[whole drum]

The extra benefit of the massive Fuel produced with HOR + PDF is that you can use some of the surplus for Recycled Rubber/Plastic recipes.

[thorn cave]

its the orange desert

[whole drum]

Dune Desert?

[thorn cave]

yea that one i think

i jus wanna know whats best so i can get the most out of what i can get

[whole drum]

It depends on your priorities, tbh

Sulfur is one of the more scarce resources, so some people don't like committing it to Tfuel.

[reef basin]

sulfur is only rare if you do TF

[thorn cave]

power with crude oil since i need coal for steel more than coal power

[whole drum]

Do you have the alts unlocked?

[thorn cave]

not much, my best recipie rn is cast screws

i dont have anything for fuel

[reef basin]

that's like the worst recipe

[thorn cave]

i use it all the time wdym

[reef basin]

it doesn't really save any resources 🤷

[whole drum]

Without the alts, you aren't going to maximize much. Just make a starter plant for your oil to get it online. Later one, when you have the alts, go to one of the more oil-rich areas of the map to make the most of it.

[thorn cave]

but it skips a production step?

[drowsy kelp]

It saves space

[reef basin]

that's pretty small gain compared to other recipes

[drowsy kelp]

And my sanity

[barren tulip]

sulfur isn't really consumed that much unless you have a really big nob factory or have a powerful tfuel plant

[thorn cave]

k, i dont have much of the map explored tho

[dusky hedge]

its a good recipe for saving space, greeny just has a thing against that recipe while sayingn no recipe is bad

[reef basin]

space is practically infinite

[drowsy kelp]

More space is more conveyors

[barren tulip]

it's convenient, i like it

[drowsy kelp]

More mess

[thorn cave]

alr ig

[reef basin]

the point is that the recipe gets way more praise than it deserves.

[drowsy kelp]

While i like a dense factory look i don’t like nonsense spaghetti

[dusky hedge]

i nknow it does, because it helps new players, you need to let it go 😎 be cool

[thorn cave]

where should i make a turbofuel/power factory then?

[barren tulip]

i love space efficiency, my entire fuel rod setup is just a big dense sandwich of machines

[barren tulip]

nearby whichever material you hate to transport the most

[whole drum]

Honestly, until you have a bunch of alts to make the most of your oil, I would stick with regular Fuel.

[thorn cave]

i used 2 hard drives unlocking that already 😭

[drowsy kelp]

Dense but organized + ceiling/under-floor wiring = i like it

[reef basin]

my guess is because it's easy to see the "gain" you get from the recipe

meanwhile recipe from the same tier - Stitched Iron Plate - has the same power and space savings, but also saves resources. However you'd need to check the math on it instead of just looking at "hurr durr skipped step", so most people just thing how good the cast screws recipe is while it practically does nothing useful compared to all the other recipes

[barren tulip]

floor wiring is so peak

[drowsy kelp]

It’s so clean

[barren tulip]

indeed

it's a pain to add or remove connections though

[dusky hedge]

i liked both

[whole drum]

I'm honestly lazy af about wiring, lol

[drowsy kelp]

One thing i try to avoid as much as possible is clipping, that includes power lines

[barren tulip]

me too, powerline spam

[whole drum]

And it will help once you have the other alts

[barren tulip]

ceiling conveyor belts are also kinda awesome, underground belting is a little bit silly

[thorn cave]

welp ig its not tottaly a waste but just saying it woulda been nice to use other alt recipes first

[drowsy kelp]

I mean what if there’s no ceiling

[whole drum]

Yeah, just go explore more

[thorn cave]

i personally make my belts on the same floor

[reef basin]

another thing is that if you look at options for producing screws:

• iron -> rods -> screws - basic one
• iron -> screws - cast screws
• steel -> rods -> screws - uses basic screw recipe, most weighted resource efficient
• steel -> beams -> screws - uses steel screws recipe, most space efficient

cast screws just aren't good in anything, if you want to save resources, you go steel rods, if space, you go steel screws. The only real usage is if you for some reason go "I need screws but don't want to use steel" (which is obviously valid but it's not what most people do)

[barren tulip]

i just belt in between the clusters of machines, or above them

[drowsy kelp]

One downside of my style of building is sometimes it can get too dense without me realizing, crushing everything together

[whole drum]

Embrace the 'sghetti
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/1461433929138569296

[barren tulip]

i thought most people don't like doing steel for such basic materials tbh, i fall into that category of not wanting to use steel

[drowsy kelp]

If the steel’s already there why not use it, otherwise why bother

[dusky hedge]

the other day you argued tooth and nail that there were no bad recipes, no hate, im argumentative also when i think im right, but you are disagreeing with yourself

[barren tulip]

it looks good but not very space efficient

[whole drum]

Space is infinite 🙂

[drowsy kelp]

Just because it’s practically unlimited doesn’t mean you should waste it

[whole drum]

How is it "wasted?"

[drowsy kelp]

Empty

[whole drum]

Empty space is more wasted than used space

[drowsy kelp]

What

[barren tulip]

yes but i usually make some space and stick to that amount, then perhaps make a second floor

[reef basin]

I mean, that's basically what I mentioned in the message above anyway? it has a use for "I need screws but don't want to use steel". I'm just arguing that it doesn't make sense to have it as go-to screw recipe and say "this saves me space", while it's not even the option that saves most space

my argument isn't about it being bad. My argument is about people calling it good for reasons that aren't true

[whole drum]

I build the factories to function, then form the structure around the space they take.

[indigo kiln]

Ahhh finally no more spaghetti

[drowsy kelp]

One does not completely remove spaghetti, only move it around or change its shape (unless you’re a god anyway)

[barren tulip]

i don't do any decorating so they are just bricks of mass and machines and i enjoy how space efficient their layout is

[dusky hedge]

not good and bad are pretty much the same when choosing the best recipe

[indigo kiln]

My iron factory is good enough where I don't need extra iron spaghetti now lol

[reef basin]

well screws are indeed base materials, but you practically don't need to make screws on their own, you make them for other things, and some of those things need (or can be made of) steel, so you'll have it anyway and can use it for screws as well

[whole drum]

Some people make their factories too neat, honestly. Makes them boring and lifeless.

[barren tulip]

something something entropy

[indigo kiln]

I also just finished my first mass storage, working on the overflow part of it now

[reef basin]

the argument of "no recipe is bad" and "no recipe is best" still applies, so idk what do you mean by "choosing best recipe" 🙂

[drowsy kelp]

My factories are also big floating slabs with those big pillar supports for “support”

Occasionally with an extra floor

[barren tulip]

true, i would subsidize some steel for screws if there's enough surplus materials

[dusky hedge]

@reef basinwhen i built my starter mall, i slapped a smelter, and constructor to make screws with cast screw recipe, how should i have done it that would have been better?

[indigo kiln]

I got compact towers as factories

[whole drum]

I've actually started making new architecture to make those support pillars look more natural

[drowsy kelp]

I discovered if you take a ceiling, vertically zoop down 19 2 meter foundations, and delete the 18 foundations between the very bottom one and the ceiling you get the perfect height to have a fuel generator down there without the smoke going through the ceiling or whatever

[drowsy kelp]

Architecture isn’t really my thing

[whole drum]

https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/553550313533997057/1461453259549184116

[reef basin]

"better" is your personal preference, again

[willow garnet]

server restart in 60 min???

[drowsy kelp]

What’s wrong

[barren tulip]

i just let them clip through as chimneys or something

[willow garnet]

just got the tag in my game session with my friend

[drowsy kelp]

Clipping just looks wrong to me

[dusky hedge]

somebody asked what s the best recipe for x, i said theres a guy on youtube that compares all the major recipes , there are some that are no go, but most dependant on circumstances (or somethign to that effect) and you argued for ages on that point

[reef basin]

yeah, the game server restarts every X hours to prevent some issues from long-running it

[barren tulip]

fair

[drowsy kelp]

Z-fighting is worse

[willow garnet]

ty ty Is this based on how long I've been playing in my session?

[whole drum]

My main beef with Cast Screws is merely opportunity cost. It doesn't really save me much of anything, but I could potentially be getting other, more useful recipes.

[reef basin]

indeed. I still stand by my point. Recipes are subjective to the individual

[barren tulip]

same, #screenshots message

[dusky hedge]

ofcourse but some are generally better than others as we all have similar circumstances

[reef basin]

yeah this is one of the reason why I think it's heavily overrated

[whole drum]

I don't think it's a "bad" recipe, but certainly over-valued.

[dusky hedge]

@reef basin oil to rubber is sht compared to recycled rubber

[drowsy kelp]

I’m not even using non-default anything, ficsit orange and default foundations for everything

[reef basin]

obviously if you compare two recipes in vacuum, you can get to this

however such comparison is pointless in the context of the game because recipes interact with each other in different ways

[reef basin]

oil to rubber is way simpler than making the recycled loop for it

[whole drum]

Also, the default doesn't require hard drive RNG

[dusky hedge]

thats where you are wrong, i talk to a new player and i have an idea what is an issue for them, most of them have similar curcumstances

[reef basin]

I talk to new players all the time here

[whole drum]

Recipes have different values depending on your progression state

[reef basin]

and preferences, and available resources, and goals, ...

[whole drum]

Recycled is near worthless to me if I don't have HOR + PDF first

But having all those recipes is a very different progression state

[reef basin]

if I need 20 rubber for something, I'm not building hor -> diluted fuel -> recycled loop for it, I'm slapping down a default rubber refinery

[dusky hedge]

all recipes are created equal!!! thats why i have my usual recipes and the ones i hardly ever use

[indigo kiln]

Are you serious the moment I finish building all of the staircases in my factories is the moment I unlock the elevator

[nova ridge]

wow drones are fast

[whole drum]

I ❤️ Drones

[dusky hedge]

if you left room for jetpacking up the centre its not wasted

[fluid crow]

stairs? elevator?

[indigo kiln]

Nope.... Didn't know there was a jetpack

[whole drum]

Build the stairs around the elevator

[dusky hedge]

oops sry 😮

[reef basin]

and you're free to do so. But you making use of a given recipe doesn't mean that the recipe is good or other recipes are bad. It just means that the recipe is good for your preferences in your given situation

[indigo kiln]

No worries I'm not the one that gets mad about things like that

Oh my God I have lights now

[dusky hedge]

you keep saying that but it doesnt make it so, better is a matter of preference and when ppl have common situations better becomes a common value

[sullen gull]

make sure you clap around them 😏

[dusky hedge]

@reef basin not everyone likes to sleep in the dark, but i can talk toppl and assume they will find it better to sleep with the lights out

so thats what i would recommend

[indigo kiln]

Oh God I just bought so many packs and now Ada's going insane

[dusky hedge]

and nobody saying its a matter of preferene can change that

[reef basin]

the thing is that there's very rarely a situation where all (or even big majority) of people have same preferences

[dusky hedge]

i disagree, new players are learning new things, better is often a comon view for them

[reef basin]

"better" is subjective though

[drowsy kelp]

Can you think of one such preference

[whole drum]

They usually can't define what they mean by "better" lol

[dusky hedge]

cast screws

[reef basin]

no

[drowsy kelp]

Yeah no

[barren tulip]

elevators are cool and all (plus ElevADA is pretty awesome) but elevators aren't really that fast

[dusky hedge]

are you sayig its not commonly prefereed by new players?

[reef basin]

yes

new players don't do hard drives

[whole drum]

I can say that the majority view is that biocoal isn't a very useful recipe--but that's because most people have the view that if you can't automate it, it's not preferable.

[dusky hedge]

but you also complain that is it so commonly preferred by newplayers

[whole drum]

This would be an exception, though

[indigo kiln]

I didn't even buy them I spent my tickets on other things, just finished redesigning my entire factory cluster I'm not doing it again lmao

[drowsy kelp]

a situation where all (or even big majority) of people have same preferences
I’m asking if you can think of something that actually fits this

Not everyone prefers cast screws

[barren tulip]

i can confirm, i find anything bio to be not worthwhile

[barren tulip]

bolted reinforced iron plates?

[whole drum]

Well, "majority" is a reasonable thing to assume if there's merit to the claim. I do think the majority of new players think it's a good recipe. It's the more experienced players that realize it's not that amazing.

[reef basin]

not really

some people like to optimise for power usage, some for space usage, some for complexity (with varying definition of what complexity actually means), some for weighted resources, some for specific resource they see as rare, some optimise for machines being in 1:1 ratio, some design factories so that they look good, ...

each of these groups will have different recipes they prefer and different recipes they do not like. Which is fine, that's what the recipes are there for. But doesn't make either of them "good" or "bad"

[dusky hedge]

agreed, cant argue that, the point is that there are better recipes than others, and it is common for the better recipes to be used even if there couldbe a scanario where another recipe would infact be better

i actually think cast screws should be skipped when you know the game well enough, but that is beside the point

[reef basin]

if you compare two recipes in vacuum, you can end up with these claims. The claims break as soon as you exit the vacuum and realise there are other recipes that can affect the production lines

[dusky hedge]

but the average person is not ina vaccuum, the average person is playing the game in an average way when they are learning the game

[reef basin]

that's useful for people who don't care about resource efficiency and want less space usage 😉

[whole drum]

And an oft overlooked part of exiting that vacuum is the temporal element.

[dusky hedge]

you can usually tell when somebody comes from factori as a newbie

[reef basin]

yeah and I'd rather teach them to look at recipes and decide for themselves rather than repeating "cast screws so great that even your mom uses it"

[barren tulip]

i honestly thought it was a straight upgrade compared to the normal ones because i didn't check resource consumption,

[reef basin]

it's faster but uses more screws 😉

[dusky hedge]

id rather help them and let them learn themselves, a lot of ppl give up too soon

[barren tulip]

nice way to circle back to cast screws

[drowsy kelp]

Looking at the recipes closer is definitely something you don’t stop doing once you notice it

[reef basin]

how so?

[barren tulip]

i haven't started...

[barren tulip]

[sterile blade]

I think it's easy to say: "cast is better than Standard". It's when comparing with other alts that things get hairy...

[dusky hedge]

ussually when making that decision you have 2 other recipes to chose from

[reef basin]

"look at the recipes and decide for yourself" is actually an advice that many new people appreciate (speaking from experience), because they come into here thinking that recipes indeed are "good" and "bad", because there's like 1000000 youtube videos claiming that, and people don't realise it's just their opinions, not a cold hard truth

[dusky hedge]

and none of them make screws

[sterile blade]

Which may or may not be screw-related recipes ^^

[reef basin]

(and you also need to add "cast is better than standard when ignoring every other recipe")

[dusky hedge]

inventory space and iron wire maybe?

i forget

[reef basin]

inventory space is another thing that I feel gets too much praise, now that we have DDs

[dusky hedge]

im betting you can guess my opinoin on that 😄

[whole drum]

I skipped it for a long time on my current save

[barren tulip]

this tbh

[sterile blade]

Nah, that's just true. It doesn't matter wether other recipes are even better or not, cast is better than standard

[dusky hedge]

i love exploring so i like inventory slots early

[whole drum]

Once you have personal uploader, it stops mattering much

[hollow sluice]

hi, when building train stations, is it more efficient to build just one central train station at pickups, or multiple/one per dropoff station?

[dusky hedge]

it helps but it depends how you play and how fast you use resources

[reef basin]

it's not because you can make rods out of steel/alu

[whole drum]

He's actually making the argument in the vacuum, lol

Just Cast vs Default

[pulsar sun]

I want to know is their better option other than bioplant i have to manually farm leaves and wood than make biomass than solid biomass I automated the biomass production and supply to plant but the grind for leaves and wood backlashing me from exploring this beautiful world and i am soon thinking of making a proper base all things are not arranged in proper manner 🙂

[sterile blade]

Ie: there is no reason to choose Standard Screws over Cast Screws.
This doesn't conflict with "there's no reason to choose Cast over anything that isn't cast or standard"

[reef basin]

yeah, that's my point exactly

[reef basin]

there is - steel rods

[jovial sparrow]

don't mind me just chiming in but isn't is steel pipes and iron rods?

[barren tulip]

coal

[barren tulip]

alternate recipe, steel rods

[reef basin]

steel rods is alt recipe that makes iron rods out of steel

[dusky hedge]

i dont thnk he was supporting your stance

[jovial sparrow]

oh okay okay i never knew thanks for the info tho

[reef basin]

oh he was

[whole drum]

Once you get to next Phase, you unlock Coal Power--allowing you to fully automate your power needs.

[dusky hedge]

we dont live in a vaccuum

[sterile blade]

Oh, right.
Meh, I stand my point up to having access to more convenient resources than Iron 🤷‍♂️ (which is a decent portion of early tiers)

[reef basin]

yeah and my point is we shouldn't do comparisons in vacuum

[whole drum]

I was saying that Vencam was making the argument in the precise way that Greeny was criticizing.

[reef basin]

yeah, if you limit it to "only want to use iron", then cast are an upgrade, that one I've said above many times 🙂

but since it's a direct upgrade only in some cases, it's not direct upgrade always 😉

[thorn cave]

how do you switch ammo types rq i dont know how and dont wanna look it up

[whole drum]

Hold Reload

[thorn cave]

oh tysm

[reef basin]

yeah exactly

[dusky hedge]

how about if the want is to get this thing built making screws so i can learn new things? fight spiders, research alien tech and see if i even like this game
not in a vaccuum ofcourse

in which case cast screws ftw

[sterile blade]

I'd say that access to Steel is far enough to make Cast "objectively" useful for a decent portion of time ^^
(Moving over how I was forgetting some inputs rather than making a good point originally xD)

[whole drum]

Building the default recipe is part of learning the game too

[barren tulip]

i don't think you would have any other screw recipes at that point tbh

[sterile blade]

That's a weird way to word "early game" :P

[whole drum]

It gives Cast a usefulness window of Phase 1--which is fine as that's when you can most easily acquire it. As I stated earlier, my main issue with this is that I would generally prefer more useful recipes than merely skipping a step on an already easy one.

[reef basin]

"personal preference" is always a valid reason to use something. But since personal preference is subjective (shocking), it's kinda not relevant to talk about it when considering recipe choices. If you want to use something, you use it no matter what others say or if the recipe is "bad" in the parameters you optimise for.

The talks above is about what recipes provide in the parameters that you can more objectively quantify

[dusky hedge]

you keep leaving out the part that is it common

[reef basin]

well, early game you may find yourself not needing screws that much

[dusky hedge]

when you are trying to help yo ustart by helping in the most common way, if you find out they are an anomaly then you add to it

[sterile blade]

I mean, I would also prefer if all recipes were more useful from an end-game perspective, but isn't it fun to have some "pitfalls" that actually help you out early on and only drag you down if you don't reevaluate your initial choices? (eg: making standard HMF with standard screwes to feed the brand new heat-fused-frame factory)

[reef basin]

"commonly used" is hardly a quantifiable parameter, since we don't have the usage data, so it's mostly a guess based on small portion of users that interact here

and I don't like to recommend a recipe just because "it's commonly used", because in the extreme case we'd all be recommending the same thing and eventually stop using all the other recipes and lose the most powerful thing in the game - option to use different recipes based on different situations

[dusky hedge]

@reef basin if somebody asked youthe best place to eat around your area you woudlnt be able to tel them?
well that depends on a lot of things..............

if you found out they didnt like normal human food then maybe you cant answer to their best benefit but in general you know

[sterile blade]

Unless you do happen to find one or more screw-removing recipes, that's just nonsense o.O
Screws for frames, screws for plates, screws for milestones... There's so much that a decent chunk of plates made go into screw belts

[reef basin]

the most common way to help a user on a subjective choice is to support them to make their own choice because you shouldn't be forcing your opinion onto them (especially since 99% of people here will word it as if it was generic truth rather than personal opinion, and new people don't have the knowledge to distinguish what is and isn't opinion)

[dusky hedge]

you dont give ppl enough credit

[reef basin]

yeah, I'd ask them what food/cusine they prefer

[reef basin]

because I interact with them here on daily basis

[dusky hedge]

but they didnt ask for a question, thats what you dont get

[reef basin]

I'd rather ask for clarification to give better answer than to give bad answer 🤷

[whole drum]

If I ask someone what the best place to eat is and they recommend some Japanese buffet, it may indeed be a great place to eat, but I can't go there due to a shrimp allergy and concerns about cross-contamination by the general public sharing the serving trays/utensils.

The priorities and preferences each person has can form their opinions, but if you want to argue for something being good/better/best, this generally has to exist in something much more objective--and Greeny has laid out a case for each of the Screw recipes quite coherently.

[dusky hedge]

then i suspect you wouldnt ask that question, am i right?

you would be more specific

[whole drum]

It depends on how well I know them and trust that we have similar preferences

But new players come in here all the time assuming there just are objectively best recipes for everything in the game--and that is rarely true.

[dusky hedge]

if im in an new area and i dont know whats areound, i ask what is good, they can say pizza here, restauarant there, deli here or whatever, im asking their opinoin

i dont ask to get questions

[reef basin]

super early most people just handcraft
then in T0-T2 you mostly need them for rotors and RIPs, you can get stitched plates to only need them for rotors (and yeah, some milestones)
the question then is whether you value the cast screws recipe enough to spend a time on finding a HDD for it and how much you'll use it afterwards, if it is better than just slapping down one extra machine and waiting until T3

[whole drum]

See, I used to drive a truck and haul people around. When I wanted to recommend a place to them, I would usually lead with something like, "Do you like [this type of food]?"

[dusky hedge]

i hpe they werent the same job? 😮

40 person tipper 😄

[whole drum]

But back to the game... Alts aren't needed in P1 at all. You can use them, but most of the alt recipes you will use more are in P2 and P3.

[reef basin]

this exactly

new players aren't specific in their questions, they should be. Because they aren't, I have to ask more clarifying questions.

and for me personally, I'd hate if I asked an unclear question (because of lack of knowledge on the subject) and I'd get an opinionated generic answer instead of being asked clarifying questions. I very much want the person to ask me to clarify the question if it's unclear or generic

[dusky hedge]

what if they dont want to be specific and just want to play a game without a lecture and math quiz

[whole drum]

It depends™

[dusky hedge]

have a look at what percentage of players have reached a minor milestone like aluminium

[reef basin]

then they can just open a random youtubue video and copy everything piece by piece, because that's apparently how they want to play the game

[pulsar sun]

But their is no phase 3 showing I have researched all till phase 2

[reef basin]

the achievements are a very small percentage of players due to EA, Epic and consoles

[sterile blade]

The question was wether cast is useful early game, not wether it's worth looking for it. If one early player has the choice in front of them and no other screw-related recipes are aviable (on screen or in inventory already), cast is always a good choice (ie: more convenient to use than standard)

[dusky hedge]

they quit when they get overwhelmen, a guy in phase 1 asks what recxipe i should choose he probably wants an answer not a question

[whole drum]

Do the elevator parts to advance Phases

[whole drum]

But may not necessarily be better than other available recipes, including potential reroll results

[barren tulip]

space elevator

[reef basin]

for sure, but that's part of valuation you should do when picking the recipe, so when I have the option to get cast screws, I look at what it can do for me when I have it - which is exactly that "is it useful early game" part we discussed

[jovial sparrow]

i hate that i got this game a couple of years ago when it was still in update III cause the only platform i was on that time was epic and now steam is my prefered launcher

[pulsar sun]

Yes I builded it but dont know what it do

It's soooo massive

[queen slate]

Are there some weird looking things in the top right?

[whole drum]

It shows a list of parts and required quantities in the upper right corner when the elevator is built

[barren tulip]

put stuff in it

[reef basin]

they quit because they keep rebuilding the factories and burn out. That's the most common reason I've seen to quit.

And I've gotten very good feedback on my suggestions to "pick what you want" (especially back when we didn't have rerolls)

[whole drum]

The stuff it asks for*

[dusky hedge]

to be fair, when you hit the 10cent per hour mark you could buy it again

[queen slate]

You can interact with the space elevator to put in items that it wants to unlock the next phases

[jovial sparrow]

what's that?

[pulsar sun]

Yes I see it's some kind of chip but dont know how to make it @queen slate @whole drum @barren tulip

[whole drum]

An arbitrary valuation of playtime vs game price

[sterile blade]

I don't see the point you wish to make there. Sure, there can be better choices, I'm just analizing one scenario (early game, only screw choice) between them

[whole drum]

Check the Assembler recipes

[jovial sparrow]

oh okay well let's see how many hours i got

[dusky hedge]

well if the game is 40 dollars thats 400 hours of entertainment, we can all agree that 10 cents an hour is a great trade

[queen slate]

The wiki is helpful for that kinda stuff thing

[drowsy kelp]

Hovering over it should get you a name, then you can use the codex (o) to find its recipe and the building that makes it and stuff

[whole drum]

In fact, open your Codex ("O" on PC) and you can scroll down until you see the part.

[pulsar sun]

I am currently outside so once I get back on I will see in it

[barren tulip]

smart plating is like reinforced plates and rotors or something like that

[pulsar sun]

Oh thank you I didn't know that

[drowsy kelp]

That’s it

[whole drum]

My point is that I don't need a recipe to skip a step on an already easy recipe, so I prefer more useful recipes instead.

[queen slate]

Fair

[jovial sparrow]

well i think that i've passed that threshold cause i have reached 500 hours if i play 30 minutes more.

[whole drum]

800 hours for $30. Pretty good.

[dusky hedge]

one thing i noticed in life is that ppl will gladly spend 30k on a car but refuse to spend more than 2k on a bed
they spend 8 hours a day in bed and less than 2 in their car

[barren tulip]

i got 500, can confirm it's pretty good

[sterile blade]

So, pretty much: the earlier you get it, the more useful it is.
Ie: the earlier you're in the game and least hard-drives you have, the more you'd strive to unlock Cast

Conversely, the more alts and alternative resources you have, the least interesting Cast becomes

But it doesn't just take 1 single stitched plate option to "tip the scale" imo, I'd argue most people would like to have 2 or more screw-related recipes (or being out of early game) before losing interest in Cast

[whole drum]

I'm a cheap bitch and don't like spending more than 2k for either 🤣

[drowsy kelp]

Somewhere around 600 for me

[queen slate]

True but they won’t (mostly) be showing their bed to others but they would show their car

[barren tulip]

you don't really think of sleeping as much due to how unconscious you are

[jovial sparrow]

well that's a great point, never thought about it that way but on the otherside we don't actively spend that time in bed cause 9/10 of the time we are laying in bed we'll be sleeping

[sterile blade]

Sorry for bad wording, I'm a bit in a rush

[drowsy kelp]

You think of sleeping plenty when you have to sleep but aren’t

[whole drum]

I would instantly take Stitched Plates over Cast Screws, but that's just me

[barren tulip]

true but you think of the activity and not the bed, i'd gladly sleep on the floor if I'm sleepy enough

[dusky hedge]

how much money do you suspect an old man spends on back issues in his lifetime?

[queen slate]

You must have pretty comfy floors ;D

[jovial sparrow]

i have no clue but i guess 50/50

[dusky hedge]

hah i sound like abed salesman, go buy more bds people

[barren tulip]

they're hard marble but i wouldn't mind

[jovial sparrow]

''sell me this pen''

[queen slate]

lol write your name down for me

[jovial sparrow]

nuh uh

[queen slate]

U don’t want to because ur scared but this pen takes all your fears away by eradicating them from existence

[reef basin]

the stitched plate was just an example I like to provide - the two recipes (cast and stitched) have same power/space savings, just stitched also save resources

that combined with the fact that stitched is valuable across most of the game mean that it'll most likely have more value to me to get stitched than cast

but as I said, preference always wins over anything else, so go for whatever you like 🙂

[queen slate]

It was an unlimited battery too

[jovial sparrow]

''sorry sir i will never ask you to sell me this pen ag- again.."

[reef basin]

steals the pen
"Hey, give it back"
"$5 please"

[queen slate]

I’m afraid I won’t make this sale luckily my trusty pen is here to save the day

[jovial sparrow]

whimps even more

okay but imma eat breakfast cause i got a test coming up in about 2,5 hours

[barren tulip]

nagging until they purchase the pen?

[queen slate]

Are we allowed to take hostages e.g loved ones friends etc as a bargaining chip for this pen sale

[barren tulip]

gl

[jovial sparrow]

thankss

cya

[whole drum]

Take something they actually care about--like their cat or dog

[queen slate]

Gl this pen will help your get 101% on that test

[queen slate]

Or their satisfactory world 😉

[jovial sparrow]

i will think of that while im doing my test (it's english so it should be easy)

[whole drum]

All their alt recipes

[queen slate]

Gone

[whole drum]

All their DDs and spheres

[queen slate]

Unless you buy this pen from me

[barren tulip]

[reef basin]

let me guess, american stats

I spend like 1 hour weekly in my car

[queen slate]

I spend 0 hours in my car an hour because I don’t have one

[whole drum]

That truck job I had before was 5 hrs a week in my commuter car, 60-80 a week in the work truck, plus any trips/chores/shopping that had to be done on the weekends.

[dusky hedge]

yeah i bought close to work so im not far off, but to avoid arguments from pedantic ppl i said 2 hours
its prolly better to say a third of your life is spent in bed, cos that sounds crazy

[queen slate]

We should prob be talking about this in off topic we kinda not talking about satisfactory

[dusky hedge]

we the topic is a satisfactory one is it not?

[whole drum]

It was...

[barren tulip]

not anymore

[dusky hedge]

water buffers are awesome and solve most problems with pipes 😮

[whole drum]

Grasslands is a trash starting location. Go!

[barren tulip]

anyways, alternate recipes: pure [material] or wet concrete

[dusky hedge]

change my mind

[queen slate]

It kinda is but if new players come in here asking if they should sink their somersloops and Mercer spheres they might be too intimidated to ask resulting in them making a grave mistake

[dusky hedge]

last time i played the alien tech didnt do anything so i was shocked to find out they ahad value this time round

[whole drum]

"Just add water" recipes are some of the best because water is the most abundant resource, but I'm kind of in agreement with Cobalt here that alloys are a lot nicer to work with. Still provide high yields, don't take a million refineries, and save on power a bit.

[barren tulip]

i should put one of those on my uranium waste recycling facility tbh, the water line is much too vulnerable to fluctuating

[reef basin]

yeah, don't. That was a meme post (at least I hope it was)

[barren tulip]

what, why not :<

[queen slate]

It was 100% a meme post(I think)

[barren tulip]

it's like a capacitor

[dusky hedge]

i actually think ive found a good use for them to limit sloshing but i havent been in game to test it

[whole drum]

Except it's not like one at all, lol

[barren tulip]

water can slosh??????

[whole drum]

Pipes flow both ways

[reef basin]

buffers in majority of cases break more than help

and "sloshing" is a property of pipes and you can't really get rid of it, so better to build in a way that it doesn't affect your builds than trying to (and failing to) get rid of it

[barren tulip]

[queen slate]

I can’t tell if your being serious or not your pfp is serious and intimidating

[reef basin]

idk about you, but when I jump into a pool, the water sloshes back and forward, doesn't stay perfectly stationary 😛

[queen slate]

Weird

[whole drum]

What sort of weird water you been jumping into??

[barren tulip]

well yes but i don't tend to state at pipe water levels so i thought they just flow

[swift turret]

still water 🫣

[whole drum]

The most dangerous kind

[barren tulip]

[] _ []

[reef basin]

they do flow - in both directions 🙂

[barren tulip]

i haven't experienced any issues with water sloshing yet, at least i don't think so since i haven't even been looking for it (but i think it hasn't yet)

[whole drum]

Tips to combat "sloshing"

• Keep pipes full
• Feed manifolds from both ends (if the total system needs exceed a single pipe's capacity)
• Elevate the mainline of a manifold a little bit so the feeder pipes can use gravity to help feed machines

[reef basin]

depending on your build style and amount of fluid needed in pipe, you may not run into those issues ever. But mostly incases where you are feeding a fluid manifold with full or close-to-full pipes, you may find it problematic

[jovial sparrow]

turns out i have my english test at 12:20 (it is now 9:09) so i still have about 1 and a half hour till i have to go

[barren tulip]

then stay here and enjoy this conversation / argumentation

[jovial sparrow]

i will while im playing satisfactory (what a wonder)

[whole drum]

Considering the lack of capitalization, punctuation, and the improper start of the sentence, you should be fine.

[barren tulip]

i really have to work on those as well...

[whole drum]

😄

[jovial sparrow]

hahaha im dutch so while im chatting i won't use tons of punctuation but on my tests i always get 70% or higher so I think ik will be fine.

[coral marsh]

I failed English

Im kiwi

[jovial sparrow]

im apple

[whole drum]

That explains it. You speak British.

[coral marsh]

Nah im from new zealand

[coral marsh]

My England speak is great 🤣

[dusky hedge]

where men are men and sheep are nervous 😬

[coral marsh]

We dont fk sheep

[limpid iron]

same!

[coral marsh]

Im actually sick and tired of that stereotype

[limpid iron]

I do though, south islander

[coral marsh]

FR?

[green fiber]

• Do even splits near the flow limit and any split below the limit.

[coral marsh]

Im a south islander too but i dont fk sheep

[barren tulip]

i have NEVER heard of this before

[coral marsh]

Top or bottom of the island

[limpid iron]

middle

[coral marsh]

Oh cool, im far south

[limpid iron]

well no wonder

[coral marsh]

Its more of a tired joke than a stereotype but its also one at the same time. We in the south island are always called sheep fuckers. Im sick of it

[coral marsh]

Gore is such a shit town 😭

[limpid iron]

gives places funny names though like "McDonalds Gore"

[coral marsh]

Yea, ill give it that 🤣

[barren tulip]

interesting

[coral marsh]

When I was on a camping trip, our senior students chased our English teacher around our camp site with a live eel. Shit was fucking hilarious

[dusky hedge]

at school (neighboring agricultural school) had a kiwi teacher who copped all the insults, on a camp trip he had to rescue a sheep form a fence and he was only wearing shorts somebody caught a photo of him holding ths sheep up infront of him which hid his shorts and the legend lives forever

[whole drum]

Saw this recently. It's pretty good.
https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/456109329456562187/1462723235375349937

[jovial sparrow]

that is pretty funny

And by the sound of the video I wasn't the only one that thought that.

[whole drum]

Afk a bit...

[mortal stone]

Do y'all plan your builds by aiming for a certain amount of output or limited by input of raw resources

[dusky hedge]

output

[jovial sparrow]

I plan it by output

[dusky hedge]

conditional i guess

[jovial sparrow]

but sometimes by input

[whole drum]

Independancy would aim for output. Megafactories by input.

[mortal stone]

Can't decide if I want 2/min or 4/min of smart plating early

[dusky hedge]

2

[jovial sparrow]

if i want it at a certain place and I see how many raw ores are in the area then i will be planning on input

I agree

[cursive crane]

Planning by input often results in massive scope burnout
Saying that, input

[jovial sparrow]

it will stack up eventually and since you will need in in the second stage of the space elevator you prob will be busy with something else so it will just acummulate over time.

[jovial sparrow]

i like how everyone here has the same interest but that figures cause it's a server made for that thing

[dusky hedge]

as long as you store everything that isnt being produced at a high rate it seems to work out for most of the early stages

[dusky hedge]

in factorio you are encouraged to make the product for future use
here it seems pointless if it ends up in the wrong spot at the wrong amount

[zinc mesa]

fwiw both factorio and satisfactory are flow-based if you build them right

[dusky hedge]

i remember thinking to make a motor factory, but i can just make motors in any factory that needs them

[sterile blade]

I guess that most who are "in the known" would 😅

[dusky hedge]

i wonder if it is just the fact that we can build vertically

[zinc mesa]

but yes, because satisfactory is so much slower it's very beneficial to build up stacks of every item. make a factory making any one thing and just leave it sitting there

[jovial sparrow]

i like building seperate factory's for diff kinds of ores-> outputs but if i got a special item that i want i will probs be building a whole diff factory so it makes my world more diverse

[dusky hedge]

imagine making just the right amount of green circuits for every item that needed them on site

[jovial sparrow]

and pleasing to look at

[indigo kiln]

Just finished my first complex build, I am definitely smelling numbers right now

[dusky hedge]

i like the idea of joining buildings to make a factory, you see that in real life a lot when a company aquires the neighboing property

[zinc mesa]

yeah fair. I guess the much denser ores in satisfactory change incentives

[jovial sparrow]

but at the end of the day satisfactory is just a bunch of math but still one of my fav game

[sterile blade]

I did tend to do that for products requiring a lot of them (like with screws being made behind machines needing them)

[zinc mesa]

also green circuits in factorio require two ores, a better comparison is gears- which are often made on site.

[dusky hedge]

i was thinking of motors rotors plates etc

but they can e done from one ore

i think the first time i had to venture out of my main area for a major factory was for nitrogen

[reef basin]

I sometimes do that

[dusky hedge]

not counting power and ally

[dusky hedge]

youwouldnt do it every time though, yo umake a massive amount and use it until yo uneed to make another massive amount

surely we can agree on something 😮

[reef basin]

tbh I had one run where I didn't have circuits on a bus 🤔

[dusky hedge]

that being the anomaly

[reef basin]

was actually pretty fun

[dusky hedge]

have youplayed seablock?

[reef basin]

yeah

[dusky hedge]

htats my main idea of what factorio is

[reef basin]

I've played tons of modpacks

[dusky hedge]

it actually feels annoying to play normal and have to gather resources for things i already built

[reef basin]

wdym

[dusky hedge]

in seablock resources are from water - infinite

[frosty mirage]

How do I split 70 into 30 and 40? Is this what its called load balancing? 😭

[reef basin]

one splitter, it'll self-balance

or make 40 and 30 separately

[dusky hedge]

IF and only IF you can get something functioning perfectly you never have to touch it other than to upgrade or alter

my keboard is dyslexic, nothing wrong with me 😐

[frosty mirage]

Self balance? Doesnt a splitter make it 35-35, with 2 conveyors coming out?

[jovial sparrow]

eventually things will back up like manifolds so it should work out

[dusky hedge]

most things back up and self balance, if you know it wont then plan accordingly

like prefill

[reef basin]

and what happens if you send 35/min to a machine that only needs 30/min? 🙂

[frosty mirage]

Even if it's 3 machines that need 10?

[dusky hedge]

if any achine is not getting what it needs then more is going to other machines

unless there is a loop back in which case it can be complicated