Let player use dark magic.

[scenic yarrow]

It would be cool if player could learn and use dark spells, used by undead and vampires, and someone from Rotten Willow could teach them or sell treatises.

[random nexus]

devs said no

you cant use those and stay sane and heathy human

[steel drum]

And you need to be that because...?

[random nexus]

cause you wont be able to play as your character

[steel drum]

A small price to pay

[copper epoch]

I like these ideas however devs said no, BUT we do have a pretty good mod for necromancy already

we are just missing stuff like curses and sanguimancy now

https://www.nexusmods.com/stoneshard/mods/157 here's a link in case you are curious

[steel drum]

Except this mod is outdated, and BW (the guy that made the mod) is currently MIA

[copper epoch]

MIA?

[steel drum]

Missing in action

[copper epoch]

oh

[steel drum]

He's from Iran

[copper epoch]

wait you mean that literally?

[steel drum]

Yes, his status is unknown

[copper epoch]

unfortunate

[steel drum]

But someone else is updating the mod

[copper epoch]

did he got drafted or smth?

[steel drum]

Did you not hear of the shitshow going on in Iran?

Also he got shot in the leg

[copper epoch]

yeah I know

[scenic yarrow]

With current preset characters - I guess so... But maybe when custom characters will be introduced? And if devs are against dark magic because of morale perspective - why the **** they force you to drink alcohol in Darrel event and encourages drug usage and stealing?.. 🤔

[steel drum]

The newest mod version is in the modding server if you want to use it

[copper epoch]

whos updating it now?

I assume all that info came from that person?

[steel drum]

TboneX

[steel drum]

BW was able to return to the server for a while a few months ago, but Has since went dark

[paper notch]

Drug usage will be disencouraged by addictions in the future. Drinking brendy is just drinking brendy, incomparable to resurrecting corpses

[random nexus]

its not avalible for lore reasons

[paper notch]

Even custom character will not allow you to use dark magic 1000%

[scenic yarrow]

I see.. a bit sad, cause I don't want to use mods.

[scenic yarrow]

Why do you think resurrecting corpses is worse than alcohol usage and stealing? Cause you do it yourself? 😋

[paper notch]

0_о

[copper epoch]

I think the main issue is just that the lore conflicts with the planned main story if you go in the pact to delve into necromancy

[random nexus]

in the lore you need to make a pact with an entity that strips your sanity and free will to become a necromancer

[steel drum]

But... What about the other dark magic?

[scenic yarrow]

Oh, I see.. than it's logical not to be able use it. 😑

[copper epoch]

I mean to my knowledge that leaves curses and sanguimancy

apparently l'owkrey was part of a sanguimancer group in brynn a long while ago

[scenic yarrow]

I guess same reason - you must to become vampire or etc to use it

[copper epoch]

this comes from a dialogue line if you give him the occult cloak

[steel drum]

That Man Has a whole graveyard in his closet

[copper epoch]

but I think we don't actually know if he practiced sanguimancy or was just part of the group

[scenic yarrow]

Maybe he is not a human any longer with his own will?..

[copper epoch]

if he did practice it, I don't see anymore lore reasons why they should not allow that to be part of our skillset

[paper notch]

Not exactly. L'owkrey can use it, but he is defo not a vampire

[copper epoch]

But devs said all magic trees that we will have access to will be of axionian nature

[paper notch]

I think being one just buffs your ability to use it

[copper epoch]

what the reasoning behind this is, is unknown to me, but I also don't have the exact quote

[copper epoch]

iirc l'owkrey only has pyro, electro, magic mastery abilities alongside a curse

[steel drum]

But he still Has the curse

[paper notch]

Talented man indeed

[steel drum]

I'd pay big time to learn it

[paper notch]

Bruh

This debuff is mid at best

Especially on enemies

[copper epoch]

yeah but I'm pretty sure the curses aren't part of sanguimancy though

[steel drum]

Dark magic is dark magic, and I want dark magic

[copper epoch]

but this is just a intuitive assumption

oh and witches also can cast curses

[paper notch]

I am pretty sure it changes seal of empowerment to blood magic one

So idk

[copper epoch]

we only have a vampire enemy with Seal of Power since last update though

it might just be a oversight

if we take l'owkrey into context at least that is

anyways here's l'owkreys skillset

[paper notch]

Oh wait

[copper epoch]

he got Curse of decay AND life leech

[paper notch]

I might be wrong

[copper epoch]

that changes quite a bit

[paper notch]

Yeah life leach is sus

[steel drum]

The most Basic vampire skill

[copper epoch]

well any sort of life drain scaling with damage is huge

especially because it can overextend your healthbar

though 9 unholy damage with the magic power he has is kinda shit ngl

[paper notch]

Anyway dark magic is 1000% not planned to be added so it's not that helpful

[copper epoch]

yeah but I don't see any major lore reasons against sanguimancy and curses

[paper notch]

Player will not use it

[copper epoch]

unless we are missing something due to the lack of quests and main story

[paper notch]

Probably you need to much time to learn it

Like L'owkrey

[copper epoch]

well l'owkrey studies curses so I wouldn't be surprised

[steel drum]

I got time

[copper epoch]

I can imagine though that now after the crimson plague sanguimancy is a bit iffy to learn

[steel drum]

The stoneshard ain't running away after all

[copper epoch]

the occult cloak which belonged to the sanguimancy group drops from proselytes

so maybe the use of sanguimancy drives one closer to the court or some shit

tbf though any magic is going to make your head explode without seal of finesse

[upper prism]

Sanguimancy is the magic of the proselytes, the faction thats the least human 💀 💀 💀 also reciving the gift would make you a bozo proselyte and become insane

[random nexus]

ngl playing as a bat mutant would have been cool

[upper prism]

Wichcraft from what i recall we know little and is seen really badly

[random nexus]

alas

[copper epoch]

Not trying to be rude or anything but you clearly didn't read the whole thread

[upper prism]

I was but maybe i missed something, i woke up like 30 minutes ago

[random nexus]

good morning

[copper epoch]

there's a bunch of lore around L'owkrey which I pointed out in here that delivers some major evidence that you don't actually have to be a proselyte to be able to practice some form of sanguimancy

[upper prism]

Thanks mate

[upper prism]

An old warlock that haa studied the occult all his life and has paid with something, as far as we know he might turn into a proselyte if he is explsed to weird magic again

I dont remember anything about a sanguimancy group tho

[upper prism]

To me it reads more like a group of proselytes

[copper epoch]

well I think that depends, considering it says "Long Ago" and that we see nothing of this in brynn nowadays in the current game I assume this is before the crimson plague

it's vague as shit but you could definitely interpret in a way that allows sanguimancy to be lore friendly for the player

[upper prism]

Or early proselytes ig? We arent sure if they are a new threat completely or if they just started expanding insanely after the crimson plague

[upper prism]

Fair interpretation

[copper epoch]

yeah as I said it's super vague and we lack story and lore to confirm all of this

[upper prism]

Tho they are refered as vampires so id asume they are proselytes since Leo refers to them as that

[copper epoch]

The biggest piece of evidence is probably the fact that l'owkrey can use life leech

[steel drum]

Which is used by most proselytes

No price to huge for that spell...

[copper epoch]

maybe, but it might also just be flavor text? I could see the idea that the people of brynn thought they were vampires due to their practice of sanguimancy but maybe not all of them like l'owkrey were actual proselytes, at least yet

[upper prism]

As far as we know there isnt a diference between both

Vampires are proselytes

[copper epoch]

I use the term interchangeably but considering all the random dialogue around them I think it's safe to assume the people of aldor just call them vampires

[upper prism]

To be fair proselytes are barely known

[copper epoch]

heck most of the random enemies haven't even seen sorcery in their life

[upper prism]

Either way sadly we wont get more skill trees what we have in the game is what we will get, the greyed out trees will just be added

[copper epoch]

yeah this thread was doomed as a mod idea discussion thread from the start

to the dismay of OP probably

[upper prism]

Lol

[copper epoch]

I gotta say though I find it quite sad that magic wise we only get the axionian stuff

[upper prism]

I mean necromancy is axonian too

[copper epoch]

yeah but the devs had a issue with necromancy specifically iirc

[upper prism]

They were masters at it, the manticore can sumon skeletons without a will

[upper prism]

I mean yeah necromancy is horrible

You strip a soul from the grace ofnthe host to summon them back to life to fight for you and when they die presumably their conection with the host is broken

[copper epoch]

not just presumably it's confirmed in a wraith tooltip

lemme find it rq

[random nexus]

more magic when

[copper epoch]

To be resurrected after death is the most terrible fate that can befall a devout Hieronite, as it forever severs them from reuniting with the Host.

🥀

[upper prism]

So yeah necromancy is the worst thing you can do

[copper epoch]

I doubt most people know about that in lore though

[upper prism]

Most people being like paesants?

[copper epoch]

yeah

[upper prism]

Necromancy was a know issue tho

[copper epoch]

in what way? I was talking about the connection to the host

[upper prism]

Yeah and i think people would know that

Also iirc undead enemies cant get far from their resting place

[copper epoch]

well that much seems to be true

[upper prism]

So thats another reason why its not as a magic tree and why you dont see undeads roaming on the surfacr

[copper epoch]

let us bind wraiths and skip all the annoying corpse stuff

totally not broken

[worthy pilot]

There's no way to learn any forms of sanguimancy or forbidden magic without first sacrificing your former self

[steel drum]

All, or a part?

[worthy pilot]

Any kind

[upper prism]

Would lowcrey turn into a proselyte if subjected to that kind of magic again?

[steel drum]

I mean, all of yourself, or a part of yourself

[worthy pilot]

You don't retain your freedom of will

[upper prism]

And what is witch craft exactly? Is it like an axonian magic or more related to forbidden arts?

[worthy pilot]

Either you go all in to submit to the necromantic or vampiric cult you join to access the related kind of magic, or you don't

[steel drum]

Then... What's L'owcrey's deal? He can curse and drain life

[worthy pilot]

So playing as a necromancer merc is not possible from the lore perspective, even if we take aside how taboo it would be from a society perspective

[worthy pilot]

He's a special case and he isn't exactly your average Joe

[worthy pilot]

No one knows

[steel drum]

Is that the answer you share not to spoil something, or because you didn't think of a lore explenation

[worthy pilot]

If it's not explained in the game, I'm not going to explain it outside of the game

[upper prism]

Hope we get some lore of witchcraft then

[copper epoch]

well that's a bummer but it's been nice to actually get a definitive anwser to this

also makes me more curious about what's going on with our favourite occultist

[upper prism]

Bro is probably one exposure away from ascending lol

[copper epoch]

Man with all the lore discussions in here this could actually double as a mod idea thread

[upper timber]

Lmao the audacity

"Is that the answer you share not to spoil something, or because you didn't really think before granting L'Owcrey access to forbidden magic he shouldn't have access to"

Of course it's in the game just to spite those asking for sanguimancy and you in particular

[opaque wadi]

I doubt he is that close to the edge. He still called/calls for prosecution of actual warlocks. What's interesting about him is the end game. What is his final goal?

[upper prism]

I dont doubt it one bit, he calls for their prosecution but when you suggest getting his help he refuses instantly refering to his markings

[opaque wadi]

Which dialogue choice is that? As in, you ask him to join you on a quest?

[upper prism]

I dont think he has an ulteriour motive tho, he seems mostly like a guy that wants to recolect every bit of info he can

[upper prism]

The manticore quest

[opaque wadi]

Still, why not join forces with the Hieron or explain in how much danger everyone is to more people? Fear of persecution? Lack of trust that the "dilettantes" accurately grasp the situation? I suppose there are non-sinister explanations, but I do note that he is not helping as much as he could be.

[upper prism]

He probably didnt knew about the hieron and his insane conection to the host, that might get expanded in the future

Why not explain to normal people the proselyte issue tho? Im sire he knows as well as most guards or governors that telling people about an insanely poweful cult could end up really bad

[opaque wadi]

When I say people I mean governors and nobles and merchants, i.e. people in positions of power. Just to be clear I wasn't advocating for telling every village grandma about untold horrors beyond her imagination that are now breeding in their formerly holy crypts and monasteries.

[upper prism]

Im sure governors and people in power are well aware of proselytes

[opaque wadi]

Why are you calling Hieron "he" here? Hieron is the priesthood of the Host in Aldor, do you mean something else by this term?

[upper prism]

I thought you meant father orgin

[opaque wadi]

Yes, but I think it's a little different if they know "oh hey a blood magic cult" vs "these people are literally slowly killing God and can doom us all if not stopped"

Granted though, I do make a few leaps in the latter case

[upper prism]

I dont think the proselytes are damaging the host, its power is described as powerful enough to make an army run in fear

My in terpretation is that throu the rituals they gather power throu a diferent facet of the host

[opaque wadi]

given how prominent of a theme parasitism is with the proselytes, I am not sure Host is exactly happy with those rituals

[upper prism]

The hlst is gone and frankly we know little of it to really comprehend whats going on