Give us the ability to craft inferior arrows and bolts from sharpened sticks.

[magic tendon]

In the early game, while slings have a free option of picking up rocks, we should also be able to pick up some straight sticks and sharpen them in simple crafting (if we also have a skinning weapon), thought I wouldn't mind more complex version either.

Stats?
Crafting even shoddy option with -20% DMG, -30% Armor Penetration, and -15% Range out of a sticks would be good enough.
Reasons?

• For hunting small game,
• In emergency when you ran out of proper ammo in the wilds,
• Don't want to waste proper ammo to finish off a 1%-5% HP enemy.
• We won't always have both Leif and Alda due to limited Caravan members slots.

Also, perhaps add extra advanced Crafting recipies with slightly lesser penalties?
Add Feathers as a new material when Plucking.
Both ammo types would be doable, I've done it in real life.
Sharpening stones to make shafts is noting new, as for bolts - they are but a stockier stick with a nail tip secured in the front with a piece of tight string.

Simple Crafting:

• 1 Stick = 1 Makeshift Arrow
• 1 Stick = 2 Makeshift Bolts
  Advanced Crafting:
• 2 Feathers, 1 Stick, 1 Rock = Makeshift Stone Arrow
• 1 Rope, 2 Feathers, 1 Nails, 2 Sticks = 4 Makeshift Bolts

It would be also helpful since soon there will be more Caravan members than available slots, and you would not always want to pick Alda and Leif.

[static grove]

From what i recall the devs dont like the idea for makeshift arrows that are inferiour to normal arrows, and also its not like you can use any random stick as an arrow, the wood needs treatment to be a shaft, you cant also take random rocks or feathers to make arrows

[magic tendon]

Yes and No.
There was a similar proposal before. And I agree you shouldn't be able to make regular decent bolts.
I also agree that provisions and inventory management are important.

But you sure can shoot sharpened sticks! I've done it in real life when I broke the last arrows in the house I had.

If they are bad, and thus don't serve much besides the four points that I've made it should be more than fine.

I agree that not every stick is viable, but it's not also as if we see ALL the sticks in the woods, is it? 😉
Just a few that are fit for crafting.

Also, doesn't the same rule apply to rocks? 😉

It's jnot as if you can easily sling every rock of every shape that lies on the ground, yet devs decided that this isn't a problem, so why sticks should be one? 😉

[static grove]

Rocks are diferent in that, they have weight and they dont really need a special shape to be thrown, not to mention that they are the cheapest option with barely any benefit, those wood sticks would end up having much less stats if they were added, i dont see a sharpened stick being able to even pierce a gambeson

And i think another part of it would be managing your followers to have the best set up for your build

Imo that would also be an interesting part of the managmente of caravan followers, would you agree on this?

[magic tendon]

they dont really need a special shape to be thrown
That's not entirely true.
And with Arrows and especially bolts all you need is for it to be straight and pointy at one end.
Truly it's more about the wood type and how straight the branch is - rest can be easily carved out in minutes

[static grove]

Well, like i said, devs dont like the idea of making arrows that are extremely inferiour to the alternatives

[magic tendon]

Even as a hybrid build I sometimes run out of ammo in the woods with both Leif and Alda as they sometimes have very little depending on RNG. Being able to hunt a Duck, Viper, or a Rabbit, or waste 1 less bolt on an 1HP retreating enemy wouldn't change much in this case imo

[magic tendon]

Case point is - it's more about what the players like.
Saying 'no point proposing anything of the sort because devs once said they don't like it' is kind of mute.

But I guess you're right in a way - if they don't do it then mods will patch it themselves

People been asking for something similar for a long time in some form, so it will happen either way

[static grove]

This doesnt really tackle what i said about caravan followers being able to complement your build tho

[static grove]

Imo bows and crossbows not having easy to get ammo gives slings a more defined idenity, and stones are barely useful on late game, even on T3 i consider stones too weak to bother using

[magic tendon]

No, I don't really agree.
Optimisation is something people like, but this aspect is more about min-maxing your build than anything. I could finish the game without Alda or Leif as easily in 9/10 of my builds. Their buffs, perks and shops only expedite the process but nothing is necessary, only more annoying without it

[static grove]

Yeah thats the point of followers and caravan upgrades, they arent 100% needed but they are nice convinience upgrades

[magic tendon]

So caravan management in case of members is more about time and convenience

[static grove]

You dont NEED the caravan bed upgrades but having a max for 1800 turns of vigor and the best bed available is nice

The same with caravan followers imo

[magic tendon]

So, if it's about convenience, then why would crafting emergency shoddy arrows and bolts be harmful?

Or are you trying to say that integration of inconvenience into a mechanic is a good thing?

[static grove]

Arrows with barely any damage, reduced range and little to no armor piercing would be convenient? i dont really see it that way honestly

[magic tendon]

I do, and I already provided reasons:

• For hunting small game,
• In emergency when you ran out of proper ammo in the wilds,
• Don't want to waste proper ammo to finish off a 1%-5% HP enemy.
• We won't always have both Leif and Alda due to limited Caravan members slots.

Let me just state

That I rarely have problems with it, being an absolute loot goblin that I am. But I'm not delusional enough to think that every player would want to waste time on trips OR pick any other member besides Alda and Leif if they use projectiles

Sure, you could say that Caravan members are part of management.
BUT.
This could also be a potential issue:
I don't ever see a sitation where you'd give up Darrel. If some members are 10/10 optimal pick for min-maxing every build, then the devs, being only humans will get salty and sour, that some of the content they made in the future will never get used.

• If the new members are stronger in perks and combat buffs - then even as a ranger everyone will pick them over Leif and Alda and just stock up in cities and be annoyed with it.

• If new members give worse perks than the existing ones - then they will NEVER get picked, and devs will be upset they wasted tons of their time developing them and try to force the players to pick them by nerfs and anti-fun rebalancing.

Limitations are a thin rope. So it's better to have options, alternatives, even if shoddy ones.

[static grove]

I disagree with your second point, i have seen the devs change and manage the weapons and armors by not only making other things "worse", an example of this would be the buffs that medium armor recived in RtR due to players complaining about how mediocre they felt compared to light and heavy armor

At that point light armor was concidered the best of the best when built right and heavy armor had a nice niche

Medium armor was buffed not only statwise but also giving most of the skills in armored combat a benefit for medium armor

Heavy shields where also rebalanced in an update, the devs considered that the benefit of heavy shields doing more damage was more than enough so they made all shield skills have increased cooldowns for heavy shield

This was recived poorly by the playerbase and not only was it changed but now heavy shield gets benefits from the skills

Asuming that the newer followers would be too strong and then they would be nerfed to the ground wouldnt be fair imo

Yes, there has been nerfing, Staffs are the prime example of this

But staffs have been overperforming for quite some time, the nerfs where deserved imo

[magic tendon]

Nothing has changed on that front besides unfun nerfs to Light options, like Elusiveness.

[magic tendon]

And nobody still plays it.

[static grove]

Would you care to elaborate?

[magic tendon]

That's besides the point anyway

[static grove]

Yeah, i think that we will agree to disagree on this point

[magic tendon]

. . .

Are you arguing the point for the sake of an argument right now?

Anyway, I made my point
And it will most likely happen anyway, I simply prefer for the devs to implement something balanced

People will still do what's best to max their stats, but they will get grumpy if it's at the cost of basic convenience.

Shoddy ammo would lesser the strain, but not remove it completely - for contracts and more serious scenarios you would still take the best stuff.

But the cheap ammo would help a lot those, who don't like playing like an absolute loot goblin and a hoarder.

This would promote more dynamic gameplay, and lessen the intervals of trips to restock, while also not removing the importance of having actual proper ammo, not mentioning the significance of switching ammo types (not wasting good one on Buntlings and 1hp prey)

[static grove]

Nope, i was giving my point of view about why i dont think it shouldnt be implemented

[static grove]

Also ammo is already extremely cheap

[magic tendon]

so you say

[static grove]

60 crowns per 10 stack is cheap

And ranged enemies are fairly common

[magic tendon]

• not in early game, and depends on the quantity you'll need
• you need someone to be selling them close to you, impossible in the wilds, perhaps soon even more with better followers
• as I said before already; it would be good to have it in case of emergency

[magic tendon]

varying between 3 types of ammo they aren't.

This update on average I met perhaps 1-2 crossbowmen per Dungeon and 1 in 20 among Briggands on the roads. Up to T3 pretty much none. Only from T5 they somewhat start show up (from time to time the pavise one or one with a chainmail).

Bowmen are RNG, fairly common on the roads up to Tier 3, after that there's a lull until the Marksman starts popping up. Crypt is always swarming skelly bowmen 100%, true.

Slingers are the most common, which is funny considering that's one ammo type that won't struggle

So that's not entirely true.

Well it's mostly false truth be told. Bow won't struggle in early game, and that's about it.