🔪┃rogue

[cobalt mantle]

Ah yeah, that's the problem

[cosmic briar]

Never understand guys who wain about broken builds. Yes, it's broken. Just don't took it if play broken build is not fun: devs will nerf it anyway in case they see statistic and how many players play on that build (broken builds always be in top of player base). What the reason to crying about it?
If u think that constantly crying about "oh no, this shit is broken!" will made them nerf it faster - no, it will not.

[sage canyon]

devs didnt nerf it for 3 patches

and wont nerf in this one either, game is a snoozefest

the reason for crying? cause game is a clown fiesta and ive been making fun of its balance for years

[tranquil urchin]

Hey gang, gonna do a fun end of season melee det arrow jelhkor dag marksman since I have good gear, its been ages what slams would you suggest on dagger T7 lightning dmg, T7 melee? since the det arrow part is melee or something else? and probably try for a T7 lightning pen or shred if I get enough imprints or it'll have to be a 775 due to impatience lol

wait probably better crit multi + lighting or crit multi + melee lol idk

[cobalt mantle]

Flat melee lightning is top priority, then it may depend on build whether you need inc lightning, flat melee crit, crit multi, or melee attack speed

I don't think lightning pen is an option for dagger

and shred is not needed on weapon

[tranquil urchin]

Sweet can def get pen I've got it up on the build screen, but ill go top pri on the 7/7 slam anything extras just a bonus, I think I have a bunch to slam so might chuck a few diff combos that youve suggested and see which does the most dmg 😄 - I do feel like I'm going to suffer with mana more than my various flask builds this season but we'll see haha. Thanks 🙂

[cobalt mantle]

Oh huh, they enabled lightning pen on daggers literally this season, totally missed that

If you dial wield jelkhor's, DA costs 0 mana so you actually generate mana from passives 😁

(assuming their -mana cost rolls are decent enough)

[tranquil urchin]

Hahah yeah ive got soem -6s so we'll see im just finishing a posion flask one atm

[tranquil urchin]

@cobalt mantle thoughts on this - if im using det arrow melee via traps then throwing critical multiplier will only affect the trap not the det arrow, correct? So it would just scale with normal crit multi, yeah/

[charred current]

It will still scale with Melee Crit Multi

[tranquil urchin]

Thanks @charred current - on the throwing trap tree for det arrows it says det arrow mana consumption cost 125% - default cost is 8, does that mean it's going to cost 10?

Oh he's not here that was hours ago lol shit.

[charred current]

Yes

Well if you Det Arrow mana cost is 8 then it will consume 10

Does the node says "consume" or "cost"?

[atomic vapor]

Impeccable stalking skills

[tranquil urchin]

ok cool, sorry ive been burned by my idea of numbers vs actual maths in game before so just making sure, got -6 mana to det on each dagger so should be good

umm

"Detonating arrow mana consumption:125%"

[charred current]

Was just checking because there are nodes that gives you more dmg with the mana cost

[tranquil urchin]

it says "the effect consumes mana equal to a portion of your detonating arrows mana cost"

[charred current]

But since it's mana consumed that doesn't apply

[tranquil urchin]

ok time to get some imprints after 140 daggers managed to get 7 usable -6 lp3s lol

[atomic vapor]

dejavu, me and traitors

Around 10 tabs of daggers

[tranquil urchin]

Lol i did the traitors already - did them for fire flask, shurikens phys and lighting and then posion flask now back to zap zap dags, well if i ever get imprints. Had 9 dags, bricked all crafting cos havocs shit and then ran 35 troves and other things and got 5 more, yep 5. Lol imprinting as about as inconsistant as anything in the universe possibly could be lmao

[boreal walrus]

[silent relic]

Please Bd Buffs with patch 🙏

[toxic swift]

I wouldn't count on it for this one

[silent relic]

Despair but fair

Acolyte and primalist love first

But maybe for season 4

[toxic swift]

there were some rumblings about BD changes or maybe a new skill for BD in season 4, but nothing concrete

[cold portal]

All I know is ubral dive bomb falcon probably getting gutted & I need a new spec

(buff spellblade)

[native token]

umbral dive bomb has been broken since 1.0

[cobalt mantle]

It's rogue, she dodges both enemies and nerfs

[marsh plank]

I believe Mike mentioned at one point that blade dancer was season 4. I don't think they are going to make a lot of big changes but finish adding the missing skills and tweaks.

[tawny spoke]

is this a correct umbral blades falc build?
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/umbral-blades-falconer-guide

[native token]

correct?

the build works fine if thats what you mean

[silent relic]

Well maybe it’ll be a good xmas present for us

[tawny spoke]

well i was wondering mostly why he specs into that passive that removes traversal from aerial assault

and instead uses smoke bomb for that

all the videos ive seen using this build dont do that

[native token]

lets you nuke things from far away and ensures you are in smoke bomb more often for bonuses

theres lots of different ways to play it, no one build is "correct"

[atomic vapor]

@toxic swift once a falconer 😭

[toxic swift]

ayy nightblade

[sage canyon]

11 days before another falconer season

[rugged pollen]

[red karma]

Hey guys I'm trying to follow this build => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0bXgvw9J5w

But I don't understand 2 things.

-How can I have enough mana to use spells ? I'm constantly oom

-Why my shurikens don't be there ?

[charred current]

They have a lot of mana regen

This must help too

[red karma]

ahhh okay thx again ^^

and also on ring he added some modifier about mana regen, so I need a lot of things like this, gotcha

[flint turret]

Remove perfect coordination from sync, will become much easier to sustain

[eager mason]

planner looks all over the place

[rugged pollen]

^ this

that planner looks like they just slap all the fancy stuff on without a real purpose

[toxic swift]

I've seen this one around quite a bit. It's one of the few BD guides on LE Tools for this patch

but yeah it's not very comprehensive

[graceful notch]

Any main heartseeker work at 2k?

[red karma]

Do you mean at 2K corruption ?

That's good because I was actually thinking about making an archer for Season 3, and I would have liked to make a character who shoots lots of arrows and creates arrows as he shoots. Like, for example, in Hades with Artemis' spell that shoots lots of green arrows, or in Archero when you shoot and proc swords on the sides.

Doesn't that exist in LE? And isn't that Heartseeker, exactly?

[thin quartz]

if you like the idea of shooting lots of arrows, these 2 build comes to mind:
shotgun multishot or Flurry Multishot.
heartseeker doesnt shoot lots of arrows

[thin quartz]

i dont think its worth going 2k.
you either die too much or takes too long to kill.

[red karma]

Ok thanks, tbh I saw a build of Wudijo about Heathseeker and my heart balance right now 😄

but i'll check that thx 😉

[graceful notch]

Even dual T7 or triple T7 gear still doesn’t cut it? Is the damage really that low?

[flint turret]

It's doable, just not worth it

S3 might boost ignite hs quite a bit with the new ammy, dunno how it will turn out

Depending on how proliferation will function it might become the best hs build or remain garbage clear

[graceful notch]

I saw the Dev livestream this build, and it’ll be a disaster in one or two seasons, as it has been before

[flint turret]

Did they showcase it with the new ammy?

[graceful notch]

He plays Heartseeker the same way he played melee Lich before😅

[thin quartz]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/aeonwcs/character/aeonwcs

Triple exalt and some LP4

[graceful notch]

Will try it if I'm lucky after slamming them

[rugged pollen]

devs aren't exactly the kind of ppl you want to look at to measure builds' performances

[flint turret]

Have no idea what this means tbh. The only relevant thing is the mechanics behind ignite proliferation. It will either make ignite hs good or great or it will remain a meme build

In general I don't think devs test somewhat minmaxed builds at all, that's clearly not the priority

[graceful notch]

I mean, the builds they play—I’ve never seen any sign that they’ll be improved anytime soon😅

[vagrant stone]

Name checks out sheesh awesome gear

[flint turret]

Well, ignite proliferation amulet is definitely an improve no matter how you look at it. The only question is if that's gonna be enough or working well at all

[thin quartz]

decent roll.
7 7 5 is more than enough, unless you aim for 7 7 6 or 7 7 7
lemme show you the one i failed and broke my mental.

[thin quartz]

took awhile to get there.

@graceful notch here. this is the only failed slam that manage to break my mental. every other slams that i failed just motivates me to grind harder. but this one, this one scares me.
i wasnt even that tilted when i failed my chest piece slam

[graceful notch]

I once thought there was no chance of using them 😂

[thin quartz]

your ucenui is very good roll. dont slam with anything sur par

[wide yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-cat-dead-died-gif-13827091

[night spruce]

ROUGE

[wide yacht]

if there's no BD improvements/buffs this patch i think i'll just skip the season tbh

[toxic swift]

lol welp

You may only have one Primordial Item equipped at a time. This limitation is shared between both Primordial Exalted, and Primordial Unique Items. This means once you equip a Primordial Exalted or Unique item, you can not equip any other Primordial Exalted or Unique Items on that character.
kinda hard to assume that this changes anything then tbh. if there are ANY generically good primordial uniques, then primordial exalts are DoA. imo this will only make the existing exalts that are worth using continue to be worth using, otherwise the legendary status quo remains. I hope I'm wrong though

also not being able to combo the set ring with primordial reforged sets feels like a miss

[flint turret]

New primordial bow and dagger pog

[cobalt mantle]

We'll see. Primordial exalts have stuff that can't roll on uniques, like +2 max companions, and Mike did say the primordial uniques tend to be more build-specific and it would be fairly common that none would fit in a given build.

[flint turret]

Too bad using ignite proliferation amulet will lock you out of any other primordial

[toxic swift]

yeah, and seems like that amulet will be BiS for basically any spammable fire build, ignite or not

[flint turret]

Dunno, nihilis is pretty powerful

Especially if you don't have frenzy sources

[toxic swift]

hard to ignore a buttload of health and skill repeats though

[flint turret]

Yeah it's strong for sho

Wanna see a bow and dagger

[toxic swift]

I swear if that dagger is another traitor's tongue level of generic lol

[flint turret]

I think it's a rune dagger tbh

With spellpower

[toxic swift]

does seem similar in shape

[flint turret]

Having a new bow is good tho, we are missing in that department imo

[toxic swift]

for sure

I'm somewhat worried about the primordial elecoe's chest since the current one is already splashable enough to put on basically all rogue builds

[flint turret]

And something that can enable phys non bleed bow builds too

Because there are simply no good sources of phys bow flat

[toxic swift]

seems like T8 shadows champion affix is going to be a thing

+2 max shadows?

perhaps another mirage for LM from the chest affix

shame you won't be able to roll T8 fire pen with ignite with the ignite ammy

[atomic vapor]

yeah +2 shadows is on the table

the chase will be absolutely horrible if you want realistically good other affixes + base

and the thing that holds that part back is how horrible champ items are to farm

[toxic swift]

I've never had a compelling reason to farm champion items, but I always assumed that the champion tower woven echo + a champion-focused weaver tree would be the best way to do so

[flint turret]

Wonder how good that primordial gathering fury will be

Logically ancient flight makes more sense but for me it looks more like fury

[zenith bridge]

Maybe i missed something here, but are those primordials really just a better version of excisting uniques, or maybe they miss a new artwork?

[flint turret]

Have no idea tbh. But from the looks of it I'm in favor of the former

I doubt they would include placeholder artwork into a teaser week tbh

[zenith bridge]

Yea thats what i thought aswell. But usually artwork is the last piece they add before a new patch

I was really hoping for a new bow

[flint turret]

Well, having 1 primordial cap is kinda disappointing ngl, but still looks interesting

[zenith bridge]

But a better gathering fury...idk sounds boring to me

I have to go through all rogue affixes which could be good as t8

[flint turret]

I was going to build around ignite proliferation so it's a bummer to lock myself out of all other primordials

[zenith bridge]

Some could be really strong considering 100% inc power

Dusk shroud on melee hit, ward per shadow etc.

[trim dawn]

ehh, I mean you could get like a giga cdr belt no?

[zenith bridge]

Yep my current starter is also prolif ignite as HS with new amulet

[trim dawn]

60% CDR belt would be nice

[flint turret]

Yeah I did, nothing super impressive tbh. Probably cascade is the biggest winner

[zenith bridge]

Lets see if cascade will see a nerf. From what i heard so far careful assault is not considered snapshotting

[toxic swift]

sure, but primodial exalts just a bit more niche than I had hoped

[zenith bridge]

And i doubt they bugfix it before big s4 bd overhaul

[flint turret]

Yeah that's why I thought about first as well. Ignite hs with burning daggers struggles with clear a lot but that ammy might make it bonkers depending on its mechanics

[trim dawn]

ya im really hoping there's more to the patch

[flint turret]

Lm is a good winner of primordials

Both sd and non sd

[toxic swift]

for sure

[trim dawn]

have they teased any new uniques yet

[toxic swift]

T8 LM chest + phys pen w/ SD + another prefix is nice

[flint turret]

Maybe shurikens too, even tho the flat scaling between t5-6-7 is not impressive

[toxic swift]

rogue has some of the most impactful class-specific affixes for helm and chest, so I was pretty interested in these for rogue from the start, which is why it's disappointing that you can only have one primordial exalt and that it's forced to compete with the uniques

[flint turret]

Bleed per sword could be interesting as well but it suffers from 1 primordial cap. You won't be able to use mahelins and ignite prolif with it

[toxic swift]

if a primordial unique makes or breaks your build, then you're completely locked out of the exalts, which I'm not a huge fan of the idea

all hinges on how splashable the uniques are I guess

[trim dawn]

isnt this primordial t8 affix just gonna make bleed falcon even crazier

dont they have a giga bleed% from falcon mod

[toxic swift]

yeah that's exactly my point, I suspect that when push comes to shove a lot of exalts just won't make it because of the competition with primordial uniques

[zenith bridge]

True, rogue has some nasty stuff for sure. Thats why im not disappointed personally to have 1 primordial tbh. The power creep would be insane with no cap

[toxic swift]

honestly I'm fine with 1 affix, but I think exalt and unique sharing that 1 cap is potentially not great

[zenith bridge]

I mean usually everything tbat has not been capped before was broken 🤣

[flint turret]

Yeah but I wouldn't mind 1 unique+exalt maybe

[toxic swift]

I feel like you should be allowed 1 exalt and 1 unique

[zenith bridge]

Fair yep

[toxic swift]

but that really depends on how the uniques shake out, this is all speculation at this point

[flint turret]

We'll see. So far looks decent, even tho it heavily resembles nemesis egging

I mean the evolution mechanic thing

[trim dawn]

wait

would the primordial t8s give like "+8 to dive bomb" for instance?

because that seems kinda broken

[flint turret]

+6

[trim dawn]

oh ok

[flint turret]

Or actually

[zenith bridge]

Could be +8. Im also not 100% sure

[flint turret]

Nwm yeah its +6

[toxic swift]

I fear that either:

• the uniques are build-making, potentially for weird/weaker niche builds, so they'll be necessary. then they'll lock out the exalt for those builds, and put them inherently at a disadvantage to builds that don't need a unique to function and can use an exalt
• there's a splashable unique, so exalts never even get a chance to compete

[flint turret]

I've seen screenshots of +6

I thought maybe they are also adding t9 but nothing points to it

Well, we know at least one of the uniques will be mandatory for almost all ignite builds if not all

[weary widget]

T9 would be insane to do and wouldn't be balanced in the slightest

[flint turret]

So all ignite builds will be locked out of experimenting with different primordials basically

Dunno if it's that bad but it is what it is

[weary widget]

Not especially. It's not bis for single target as far as I've seen

[toxic swift]

I'm also willing to bet that it's going to be difficult for many minion builds to beat the tyrant skull

[weary widget]

Depends on the uptime of the roar

[toxic swift]

true

I imagine if it's at least 50% uptime then it's going to be BiS for practically every minion build

[weary widget]

Primalist definitely

[toxic swift]

well, I guess we'll have to wait and see

I think the next biggest downside of the primordial limit is that exalted weapons will likely never compete

[flint turret]

primordial tongue
+4 skill
25 flat crit
120 multi

[toxic swift]

or primordial razorfall lmao

at this point I wouldn't be surprised

I want a champion affix with a charge to smoke bomb

on like belt or gloves

[flint turret]

That would be top tier trolling

[atomic vapor]

Mike said on stream primordial uniques are a separate thing and not better versions of existing uniques

There's no better versions of existing uniques

They're just entirely separate uniques obtained via the mechanics of this season

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, but the icons kinda imply otherwise

[cosmic briar]

Also, it's seems like u need to be extremely lucky for make something useful with new affix, since u will upgrade random t7 affix (and since u cant use this t8 as fodder )

So u need to godblessrng hit 1 to 4

[cobalt mantle]

They are likely significantly different of course, but will probably be similar, like the quest uniques and their soulfire versions

[atomic vapor]

He was directly asked about it and said "they're entirely separate items, not stronger versions of existing uniques"

If he doesn't wanna confirm something he usually just says I'm not allowed to speak about this

[atomic vapor]

I haven't caught him "misleading" if that makes sense

[cosmic briar]

It's just models. And not SO similar (except chest xD)

[atomic vapor]

I have no idea I'm not saying this or that is the case. But I heard that come from his mouth

[cobalt mantle]

They are not literally the same item, and maybe these are placeholder icons idk

Like I really hope this one is a placeholder lol, it's just a regular item base icon

[cosmic briar]

Anyway, I don't think they will add overpowered version of already overpowered items like razorfall xD

[atomic vapor]

Not overjoyed about "leaves of argentus" not gonna lie

Sounds like a conceptual downgrade lmao

[cosmic briar]

Mm... George, since it will be only my second season here, are they sharing stats of uniques before patch?

[atomic vapor]

Clever girl ring of atlaria

There were teasers for a few on stream and on the trailer

[cosmic briar]

Or like ggg will show 2 useless items and "let's go search guys"

[atomic vapor]

Mike said earlier on the ask the devs channel no more reveals till launch

[cosmic briar]

Sad

[atomic vapor]

Uniques wise I mean

[cobalt mantle]

Well, there will be reveals in blog posts

[cosmic briar]

I need something broken

[atomic vapor]

I can see lich going hard

[cosmic briar]

To oneshot uberroth again and see for reaction on that

[atomic vapor]

I predict more oneshots than season 2

Unless they make him truly invuln between phases

Which they should

[cosmic briar]

Well, w/o bug with feathers doesn't seems like parrot guy will do same shit without overgear now

[atomic vapor]

bug with feathers was month 1, we moved away from that

Now it's direct umbrals with on wings of shadows and dusk shroud stacks

[cosmic briar]

Always hate invul mechanics, it's not make fight harder, just timeconsuming. If they wanna timeconsuming shit they can just add same cutscene from regular version

[atomic vapor]

Well, rn the semi invuln gets abused

So I don't see another option to force players to play the fight

[cosmic briar]

Yes, that's shields thing is also trash xD

[cosmic briar]

Mm... Make hp stoppers to work in game not-so-old-to-not-have-them xD

[atomic vapor]

We're at a point that I can't think of another way to allow a fight to not be force muscled through literal animations

[cosmic briar]

But for sure they will not rewrite nearly full damage calculation for make this

It's like was on old MMORPG and in new one: difference is in fact that outcome damage calculating before target get hit

So in most times it will be reduced to ℅number based on target max.life

But yes, this isn't thing can be done in seconds

[atomic vapor]

the phase transition needs to be force enforced, the moment the boss receives damage that potentially surpasses the threshold % that the next phase takes place in. If your gigachad character can deal 60% of the total hp in one hit, they should instead simply push it to the next phase

[cosmic briar]

That's why it was problem in most of old MMOs, cos damage calculated ignore fact of target bar

Anyway, u right, most likely they just add more shields/more life

(Tbh bad idea since out of close range of broken builds this guy is already fat as hell)

[atomic vapor]

It's funny how last you played, you played with bugged dive bomb because that was the weaker falconer build 😭

Swap out of inheritance and into nihilis, stack dex and throw, spec out of midnight aviary and into on wings of shadow, spec into sync strike and out of falconry and try uber again

You'll see some hilarious numbers

Oh and obviously spec into bladestorm and blade explosions

[quiet torrent]

does the next patch have rogue overhaul, like sentinel had in the current season?

[kind atlas]

@broken barn in 1.2.5 patch, they fixed this 'Fixed a bug where the primary hit of Dive Bomb would not provide stacks of Dusk Shroud when both Flock of Crows and Birds Aren’t Real were allocated.'. also the mirage gloves contribute a lot to dusk shroud generation

[cobalt mantle]

No, this coming patch is a lich and necro overhaul mostly, with some BM stuff

[broken barn]

In that case, would it be better to put 5 points into On Wings of Shadow instead of 4 as the build shows?

[kind atlas]

not sure on this, but if you are crit capped without crit vuln you could put another point there. i didnt test

[broken barn]

Finally got him.

I think the problem was I was shifting past him instead of landing right on top of him.

[cosmic briar]

wait a second, but while i played and closely oneshot him, i already was in version w/o dive bomb and with shadows stacking

u wanna say this version is STIL broken?)

[atomic vapor]

Oh, but you mentioned a feathers bug so I assumed pre nerf.

[cosmic briar]

well ye, i mistaken that i think

[atomic vapor]

My pb with post nerf dive bomb was around 50 seconds, but I had worse gear

Even post nerf dive bomb is disgusting

But umbrals are on another level

My umbrals pb is 13 seconds without oneshot tech

[graceful notch]

I absolutely hate builds that require using scripts just to continuously spam all skills; it makes me feel like I'm not actually playing the game

[atomic vapor]

Scripts aren't required. Things like this justifies ragu completely for saying people just copy a build without knowing what does what

One person in the community releases a script to spam 2 buttons, when you're literally playing a game that holding a button down autocasts it on cooldown

And then somehow the entire community accepts it as a mandatory tool

Have people not held two buttons down in their life in a game before? I don't understand

It's so silly to me because this has given the impression that it's a "piano rotation" (actual quote from ingame chat). Literally two buttons, aerial assault and dive bomb, three for stationary fights with smoke bomb on cooldown, but for mapping just two buttons, since you still have to manually cast smoke bomb as a traversal to move around

Kinda wish those people played games with actual piano rotations to understand the difference

falconer is the most braindead class

[rugged pollen]

it's easier to parrot ppl's saying then to actual try shit i guess

[atomic vapor]

it's just crazy to me because arpg communities are known for collectively theorycrafting and discovering things and yet nobody bothered to hold a button down in the game and see what it does

[cosmic briar]

Its not required, its just making your life easier (for bossing)
On maps i can swear u, u dont wanna AHK xD

[atomic vapor]

Uber on falconer takes 30 second with bad gear. You cannot tell me holding 2-3 buttons down for 30 seconds is so annoying that setting up a AHK script is qol man

Arpgs are grindy by nature, doing 500 maps a day is chill, but holding 2 buttons down during a boss isn't?

[cosmic briar]

Same thing in reverse, since it's grinding, 30sec*1000fights...yes, it's SO annoying

Probably mapping playstile is just not "same repeateble" as for speedfarm bosses. Same here and in poe

[atomic vapor]

You hold the mouse button down for hours to move around in maps, and you also hold down your spam skill, AA for falconer, ES for VK etc etc. The game is unplayable without holding a button down in at least a couple of cases

[cosmic briar]

After 5000exarch kills as ice trapper I wanna spend several mirrors just for not pressing 2 more buttons

[atomic vapor]

It's not like you don't let go of the buttons in between Uber kills even if you do 100 in a day. If anything, if you've got the fortitude to do 100 Uber in a day, you're way past "holding 2 buttons down"

I'm not saying I don't see the merit of such a script in a vacuum, but this case has gone far beyond that. People assume it as a mandatory tool to play the game which has blown it out of proportion

[cosmic briar]

well... while i playd, i do around 600 per day xD

but u right in general, it ISNT mandatory

i think its just in case Juse used AHK on his vids, so ppls started to think it is mandatory xD

[atomic vapor]

Which is my original point. If you are a surface level player that goes unga bunga into a build, maybe talking about what's mandatory isn't something that you should be doing

[cosmic briar]

also in my honestly opinion, moment with this script is have both downsides and upsides

where downside will be shown as soon as u will enter regular map without aberroth in it xD

[atomic vapor]

Even for aberroth it's a strict downgrade compared to queuing up skills. The skills get autocasted from left to right exactly on cooldown (your ping being the only difference)

A script that hits them repeatedly is prone to inaccuracy

[cosmic briar]

ye, its trading efficiency to QOL

Also using AHK is sometimes bugged finalized damage outcome so u spend a way more time than at regular. But after 400nd kills... well, i was tired enough to trade that xD

[toxic swift]

holding down for CDs isn't foolproof. I've had multiple instances where a skill I'm holding won't get used for a bit because I'm also holding a spammable skill with no cooldown

I would like to see a way to customize the skill queue priority for individual skills on my bar

but in many cases holding them down does work

[toxic swift]

this complaint gets justified practically daily lmao

[flint turret]

Most of the time I can't blame them, because even devs don't know either. For falconer especially

And it doesn't really matter how exactly it works if it's already strong enough (in this case op af)

To be precise I'm talking about minion which has tons of weird scaling, interactions, passives and skill nodes. Umbral is pretty simple and it's just a math issue

[atomic vapor]

This is keyboard related, I think we talked about this a while ago with someone else. If you don't have a mechanical/gaming keyboard, simultaneous button inputs get tricky

[atomic vapor]

You'd expect that to not be an issue with them having created inheritance

[cosmic briar]

XD inheritance as any over weaver things are just a huge randomizer tbh

[atomic vapor]

I pulled this monstrosity early season

[flint turret]

But it's awful, it doesn't do anything really

I mean the affixes for minion

[vagrant lagoon]

it'd be something for maybe a FG Manifest Armor

with shield throw

[atomic vapor]

iirc at the time that pair was the best for dive bomb because of the infinite feathers calcing off the bird's throw

I think throw + multi edged it out because falcon also inherits multi

throw became useless after dive bomb got fixed

[cosmic briar]

before dive bomb RIP it was nearly BiS xD

[atomic vapor]

yeah

[worn oyster]

I pulled this with a max roll t7 minion damage last league.
And it doesn't do anything cause of how snapshotting works.

I'm hoping iwth the fixes to minion snapshotting it'll work now.

[atomic vapor]

throw + increased was what was calced to be the best pair of t7s

I don't remember who did the math it was a moment

[cosmic briar]

juse as well xD

[atomic vapor]

But I remember there was a debate between throw+increased and throw+multi

[cosmic briar]

he tested many options

[atomic vapor]

but yeah after dive bomb stopped proccing more feathers than a chicken pen, nihilis with throw and multi is the most dps up until 700% multi

at which point pen becomes better

I think that one was maybe laosiji? or was it comfy?

[cosmic briar]

idk, i playd with inheritance on that moment and wasnt feel like i need more damage

but i run with 2 daggers with pen

wait a sec ill try to find

[atomic vapor]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AK2q4JLo this is what I closed the season with

[sharp raven]

Falconer, Level 100

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Tombs of the Erased / 1.2.5

Class:

Rogue (20) / Bladedancer (16) / Marksman (14) / Falconer (63)

General:

▸ Health: 2,494, Regen: 33.25/s
▸ Mana: 258.17, Regen: 12.08/s
▸ Ward Retention: 40%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 20 Str / 203 Dex / 20 Int / 20 Att / 25 Vit
▸ Resistances: 87% / 87% / 87% / 104% / 103% / 111% / 104%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 56%, Threshold: 873
▸ Dodge Chance: 61% (2703)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 48% (2,924)
▸ Glancing Blow Chance: 16%
▸ Crit Avoidance: 99%

Used skills:

Falconry / Aerial Assault / Smoke Bomb / Umbral Blades / Dive Bomb

[atomic vapor]

(dodge relics because i was pushing corruption for a bit)

I have a +shadows glove pair but I logged off with lirakas lol

[cosmic briar]

cant search for old planner, but i am sure i finish used 2x 3lp daggers with 2x flat melee (cold/fphys) and crit multi

and bloodcrow or smth like that gloves with 3lp

[atomic vapor]

yeah sadly flat is completely useless for umbrals

I had to make new daggers

[cosmic briar]

well, idk if that was before or after nerf tbh

cant find timeline of it

[atomic vapor]

before nerf, dive bomb scaled with inherited flat

from the daggers node

umbrals don't have the melee tag so flat is useless

[cosmic briar]

well, problem is i used tree similar to yours, focused on shadows

so idk maybe this shit was so broken even unoptimized xD

[atomic vapor]

you used midnight aviary which scales shadow falcon damage from umbrals on the floor. the meta afterwards became bladestorms+blade explosions and on wings of shadow to purely scale blade explosions

[cosmic briar]

yes

question is does it stil broken as before, wich will allow u to fast finish uberroth with 1lp gears and w/o RRs

cos if it isnt, i will get more fun playing marksman xD

[atomic vapor]

I have the fastest uber kill post nerf that I've personally seen with 13 seconds. The only faster kills are shift oneshots with recalled blades (the cheesy one comfy showcased that other people copied)

and that was with umbrals, not divebomb

[cosmic briar]

anything less than 1minute is enough

[atomic vapor]

so I'd say scaling with shroud stacks ended up even stronger lol

[cosmic briar]

just dont wanna fcking visual spam fight 5+min

thats only thing xD

[atomic vapor]

#🎥┃video-shoutout message check out the kill if you wanna compare it to what it felt like when you did it pre nerf

(that attempt took 100s of tries obviously)

[cosmic briar]

way stronger

compared to my runs for sure

[atomic vapor]

I think I reached 200+ dusk shroud stacks there

the +shadows gloves are absurd

[cosmic briar]

ye, but it isnt so easy to get them in early game

probably on trade league economy dies in 1 week

[atomic vapor]

I couldn't believe my eyes when they dropped lmao

[cosmic briar]

so i need to take start gears and first kill somewhere around 2nd day at maximum

mhm

also inetersted what is 'faction tokens' will be

cos if they will allow change factions...

😄

[atomic vapor]

I haven't decided if I'll start rogue, I really wanna see the patch notes to decide

I might jump on the flicker flay lich hype

[cosmic briar]

same here

[cosmic briar]

dont forget it will be 'hi guys, here is theorycrafting, oh wait something goes wrong' moment

[atomic vapor]

I can already tell I'll get annoyed when people randomly show up asking if something is "unusable" because of a 10% damage nerf

[cosmic briar]

naaaah

i mean more complicated things like bugged mechs, or some iteractions

its diabloid after all, anything can be

[atomic vapor]

it was horrible after the dive bomb fix for a while

people were showing up "is falconer dead now"

[cosmic briar]

but this version of falconer seems to be better than dive bomb tbh

[atomic vapor]

yeah 30 second kills, unplayable

[cosmic briar]

at least for me

cos i was VERY tired about some moments where divebomb do weird things like 'oh see bro here we will do 10000000 damage, but here u will deal no damage 30 secs in a row. Wanna ask why? Who the fck knows'

[atomic vapor]

200 stacks * 8% = 1600% more

200 * 16% = 2400% increased

divebomb doesn't compete haha

[cosmic briar]

okay. Lets think ill start as falconer.
i can use just good rare chest to kill regular abby till get null 1lp, Peak isnt problem at all. Nihilis also.
I can use rare belt with CDR cos CDR is most thing we needed here.
Problem will start from Razorfall

[atomic vapor]

and yes this is 3200% more on uber since you're permanently in the smoke bomb

3200% multiplicative, idk what EHG was thinking

[cosmic briar]

ye, its shown even on 13sec vid, this version is a way stronger

if its postnerf cant understand why someone with falcon can complain

[atomic vapor]

We were telling them, no it's stronger than before

"but nerf"

"yes but dusk shroud generation"

randoms weren't listening

[cosmic briar]

Less falconres => cheaper stuff

i am totally ok if they will left falcon

xD

[atomic vapor]

we largely play cof here and I hope prophecies get qol

right now it's a pain

[cosmic briar]

really? Bro

this game have BEST SSF mode i ever seen

in any diabloid

nothing even near it

and awfull trade system XD

[atomic vapor]

cof was vastly inferior to mg pre season 2, but imprints made it a very tight competition

we have seen both mg and cof minmaxed characters

[cosmic briar]

not really

yes, imprints are good for trade leagues, but dont forget they are weighted as well

as example, i imprinted my RRs to find some with 1lp

wanna know how many i got?)

nothing, i just bought 2 more from market sniped it out.

[atomic vapor]

I think you played when imprints were broken

[flint turret]

Ah, yeah for feathers that makes sense. But outside of it, falcon doesn't really uses throwing damage itself. Aa hits hard but not that hard relative to dive

[atomic vapor]

Yes 100% agree that's why falconers dropped it post nerf

[stable anchor]

100%, but rerolling and prophecy jank is still super annoying

[atomic vapor]

I'm saying it was meta for the short lifespan it had

[cosmic briar]

Version i see on vid is for sure a way stronger than divebomb

[atomic vapor]

fingers crossed for qol

[stable anchor]

no way we don’t get a reroll hotkey right

[cosmic briar]

and a way more defensive

since shrouds

if i remembered correctly, they also provides tons of defense

@atomic vapor why Li'rakas?

[atomic vapor]

200 dex is how many umbrals, 16? and they stack in 3 layers before the first layer disappears so that's 16 * 3 * 5% = 240% multiplicative at 200 dex. Compare that to 3200% more with umbrals

[flint turret]

Yeah umbrals was a tool to climb 10k corr every season even before 1.2

And for some reason they decided to buff it even more mid 1.2

[cosmic briar]

dont forget that stacking dex is not so easy cos u need took many uniques with 2/3LP

[atomic vapor]

I built pen in both daggers, and lirakas pushed me to exactly 700% multi, and my blood roosts didn't push me to 220 dex for another umbral. But I largely used +shadows gloves

[atomic vapor]

rogue scales throw and dex like there's no tomorrow. 2lps for falconer are so common

[cosmic briar]

so i think in that case it will be rare +shadow/liraka 2lp/bloodroosts 2lp depends on with one we will get early

[cosmic briar]

For null or nihilis - yep. For RRs even 1lp was pain in ass, same for razorfall

[flint turret]

Dex is kinda a shitty stat to scale tbh. 4 dodge and 4% is a joke

[stable anchor]

at least 180 is very obtainable with 1LP everything and no shattered worlds jungle queen etc

[flint turret]

But falconer makes it op ofc

[cosmic briar]

Anyway, this probably 100% stronger than divebomb no matter what

[atomic vapor]

dex for other masteries= increased + dodge
dex for falconer= +1 blade explosion per 20

fair gaming dot com

[cosmic briar]

okay feels like i need to take several days to testing how it will be w/o core uniques

if ill be able to took out abby so i am ok

if not... dk

[flint turret]

There are also mourningfrost... But razor boots are to weak to have a downside like mourningfrost

[atomic vapor]

I think dex slam on RRs is better than throw because it's an easy source of +32 dex and you can get another 8 for an extra 2 umbrals very easily

[stable anchor]

shatter strike gets +1 flat and 4% inc but it’s still no razorfall lol

[atomic vapor]

I went for dex but someone tested with throw and 2 less umbrals and the damage isn't much worse

but with falconer it doesn't matter

dmg is infinite

[cosmic briar]

I just need 60sec uberroth fight

not more not less

XD

[atomic vapor]

I've already said it in the main channels before with devs active that the mourningfrosts downside is incredibly steep

they should remove the minus phys

and just leave the cold one there

which can be amended with elemental

[stable anchor]

this is without mourningfrost

[atomic vapor]

I know I was just adding to it

[flint turret]

60 to little, his reduction and heal phases are more than 20 total probably

[stable anchor]

60 is very doable with reasonable gear and tanky bow setup

[atomic vapor]

The downside to razors is that 3lp are unobtainable so you can't slam movement speed

[flint turret]

I think they are fine tbh

Phys blessing helps a lot

[atomic vapor]

I always considered phys a pain because you realistically need to sacrifice a defensive affix to make up for it (thankfully quiver covers it because the quiver suffixes are either ailment or res)

And if shred becomes relevant in that slot, it's a dilemma

[stable anchor]

if the phys and cold res blessing didn’t share a slot it also becomes much easier lol

[atomic vapor]

i'm saying this because mike said blessing rebalance is on the table

[atomic vapor]

yes that's what I was thinking too

[flint turret]

T5 res rolls up to 45, you basically just get it on every multi-lp legendary as a second/third affix and that's it

[stable anchor]

and unfortunately cold shred which is notoriously hard to come by

[atomic vapor]

I'd rather not have that downside and roll double health 😭

[flint turret]

Cold red is not an issue at all after weaver idols

You just stack 6% hp 20+ cold res ones

[atomic vapor]

it also gets covered easily by the elemental res 1slot idols

[stable anchor]

well it helps that rogue has goated large idols

[flint turret]

Well, they would be too strong without a downside in that case for sure

[atomic vapor]

I wonder if the dusk shroud ornates become usable this season by masteries where shroud stacking is the originally intended mechanic lmao

[atomic vapor]

maybe just cold res is too small a price then, but still a price compared to razors

[flint turret]

Yeah I'm not saying that razors are okay by any means

Compared to other boots Mourning's are still one of the best

[atomic vapor]

If you compare it to the multi boots

those get instantly solved by the blessing

because it's a fixed -75

I wish they did something similar

[stable anchor]

yeah but the offensive benefit from suloron’s is also fixed

well, it has a roll range but it’s not scaling like mourningfrost

[atomic vapor]

I'm not saying make it the exact same price, I'm only sayingthe downside is currently too steep compared to other interactions in other areas of the game being completely free

serpent venom gets 3000% more for nothing

but rogues can't get a little flat cold?

and mages too

[stable anchor]

i get ya but i think mourningfrost is still very good it’s just that things like serpent venom and razorfall are omega gross lol

[atomic vapor]

And if we're gonna talk global balance it's not like squeezing the absolute max flat from mourningfrosts makes either heartseeker or shatter strike comparable to the current big hitters

they could be giving double flat per, and neither build would be coming close lol

[stable anchor]

well, not if you want to be tanky with shatter strike

if you go glass cannon it can kill uber in like 45s

which in a world of serpent venoms and razorfalls and javelin time rots yeah i know but

[flint turret]

If razors get gutted falconers will go back to mourning

[atomic vapor]

yeah that's why I'm saying it's like strapping an old car to a rocket engine, just to make it reach the finish line on par, while parts start getting detaching and flying off

[atomic vapor]

I fully believe it's falconer that's getting gutted because of that post about the absurd cdr lol

[stable anchor]

shatter strike does plenty of damage, other things just need nerfs

[flint turret]

I'm 95% sure falconer will remain a top dog... Or rather cock, or whatever

[stable anchor]

things like heartseeker could use some more damage but i think that’s a heartseeker problem more than a mourningfrost problem

[atomic vapor]

The only universe I see falconer staying at the top is if the cdr nerf is so low that all it needs to fix is a t8 cdr primordial affix

which will be comical ngl

[stable anchor]

every season falconer gets nerfed and every season a new falconer build pops up so i’ll believe it when i see it

i think razorfall falconer is gone but something else will pop up

[atomic vapor]

to be fair the dive bomb fix would've kept falconer very balanced, sitting at 50second-1 minute kills with average gear compared to the top dogs. but then they had to make shadow dive bombs generate 200 dusk shroud stacks

so that nerf became pointless instantly

[flint turret]

It doesn't get nerfed, it's just a make-believe. Every "nerf" it gets he gets compensated tenfold

[stable anchor]

i’m not sure i’d call 1min uber kill on tanky gear balanced lol

[atomic vapor]

in this case it actually was almost tenfold. maxed out midnight aviary is 240 more

maxed out dusk shroud umbrals is 3200 more

more than tenfold lmaooo

15fold

[stable anchor]

can’t wait for the new primordial unique that has even more lines of text giving your falcon billions of damage

[atomic vapor]

that already exists so far. t8 champion gloves is +2 max shadows

which means permanent sync strike

aka 240 shroud stacks

but that's only pre patch notes obviously

[hybrid marsh]

we think the game is still gonna suffer from "falconeer does everything that blade dancer does but better" ?

[flint turret]

I'm just hoping ignite proliferation won't suck

I loved it in poe

[atomic vapor]

for s3 ragu says yes

I'm 50/50

we'll see

[flint turret]

Technically not everything. Lm and dancing builds exist

[stable anchor]

has this been confirmed? it may just scale dodge rating lol

[atomic vapor]

I don't see a world of it being otherwise. it would hurt bladedancers even more

primalist gets +1 companion from t7 to t8

and rogue doesn't get the shadow?

It would be the biggest punch to the stomach

[stable anchor]

yeah but patches have not been historically kind to bladedancer relative to another rogue class for quite a while so i wouldn’t put it entirely out of the question

[atomic vapor]

I want to have faith in them maintaining consistecy between their own affix tiers

it seems to follow the same progression line

sure they can gut it if they want to

[hybrid marsh]

what sucks is blade dancer shadow cascade is the most fun build ive ever played and its dog water

[stable anchor]

if it happens i won’t be surprised soley because it’s bladedancer

personally i think bladedancer is in a worse spot than lich rn lol

[atomic vapor]

It affects both bd and falconer and yeah I know this isn't saying much

[hybrid marsh]

is there anything that plays like BD Shadow Cascade? ive never played other classes because i love BD so much

[stable anchor]

they have a difficult decision weighing their love for falconer against their neglect of bladedancer

[atomic vapor]

going by that, t8 will end up being +3 max shadows lmaooo

[stable anchor]

the misha dancing strikes build is good dmg and clear but kinda squish and not uber viable afaik

[hybrid marsh]

i meant different class

[atomic vapor]

my favorite misha build to date is hail of arrows

coolest build ever

[stable anchor]

falconer just does everything bd does better in most cases lol

[stable anchor]

i just took that to uber recently and it was very fun

[hybrid marsh]

that was my original statement in this conversation

[atomic vapor]

I agree that if there's strong bd ignite tech it will be super cool

but it has to be very strong for clear to be good

[atomic vapor]

sounds amazing

[stable anchor]

or do you mean like a different class altogether not a mastery

[hybrid marsh]

class altogether, was thinking of messin with sent

i know he can get fast

[stable anchor]

spellblade is sorta kinda close

dex stack big dmg

[hybrid marsh]

i think the snappy speed is what gets me

[atomic vapor]

if you want a strong melee sentinel that doesn't suck and isn't ES, rive has pretty good uber kills, I think it was 2 mins or something?

[hybrid marsh]

i think the most important thing to me is the snappy speed that BD shadow cascade has

[stable anchor]

shatter is pretty zoomy with blood of the exile but you will lose defense compared to foot

and you stack attack speed rly high

[atomic vapor]

ES with duskstrides reaches something nutty like 160-180 movement speed but it's lacking in the traversal department because healing hands is dogwater

[stable anchor]

i like healing hands…

[atomic vapor]

sorry, I'm a sworn hater

[stable anchor]

shield rush is turbo zoom if you know the tech with healing hands

lowkey if you can pull that off consistently it’s one of the zoomiest builds there is

[atomic vapor]

My issue with healing hands is that it feels like it's struggling to queue up after your previously used skill, almost as if there's a casting delay. compare it to smoke bomb that launches you 2 screens away in an instant, or god forbid aerial assault with the traversal tag enabled

[stable anchor]

there is and that’s why it’s so good with non traversal shield rush

you queue it up before your rush ends and it dashes you past your rush with no cooldown

[atomic vapor]

is there some skill canceling tech going on there?

ok that makes way more sense

[stable anchor]

yeah it’s crazy

[atomic vapor]

which means I'm right about erasing strike feeling like you're playing with 300 ping

😭

[stable anchor]

and healing hands is cooling down while you’re rushing and it gets reduced by 75% when you heal a shield

you can use void cleave but you will lose shred but it’s fine for mapping

it does enough dmg anyways

[atomic vapor]

That's what my friend ended up doing, gave up on the iframes for void cleave

[stable anchor]

yeah for uber you want hh for the shred and iframes but mapping you onebonk stuff anyways

[atomic vapor]

I won't lie that the delay is well worth suffering to healing hands straight through called meteors and triple flail

doesn't make it any more pleasant to use ofc

[stable anchor]

i hated hh at first but the more i use it i came around a lot

but a lot of people don’t like it and that’s fair it’s definitely no smoke bomb/teleport/transplant

[atomic vapor]

I'm honestly mostly spoiled because smokebomb has to be the best traversal skill in the game for me at least

[stable anchor]

it is, it is very hard to use other traversal skills after smoke bomb

transplant is the only one that comes close in terms of snappiness imo

[atomic vapor]

I played torment last season

transplant was great to use

[stable anchor]

if the rogue build has shift i’m seeing if i can ignore that and use smoke bomb anyways

bladed armor is good but is it smoke bomb good

[atomic vapor]

Smoke weaver around 1.0 reducing the shift travel distance made me hate my entre existence lmao

[stable anchor]

literally becomes another evade charge and i hate it

that was the thing that killed swarmblade for me

[atomic vapor]

Iirc it was the best source of flat, people paired it with a katana

[stable anchor]

yeah the stats on smoke weaver are good for shadow dagger bd but god that shift sucks

[flint turret]

Wdym, it's super strong

With t8 damage per shadow might become even better

If no primordial uniques will suit it that is

[cosmic briar]

I just cant realize logic 'falconer do it better, so i will not play BD'
If u have fun playing BD just play it

if u have fun playing broken builds, play broken build doesnt matter on wich class is it

doesnt that must work in that way?

[flint turret]

I think that sentiment is mostly about situation when falconer uses the same build(or very similar skill setup) but does it better

[cosmic briar]

tbh i had more fun with my heartseeker bow, but i just like broken shit so i rolled to falconer

[cosmic briar]

but it have different playstile since its anover skill rotas/positioning etc

[stable anchor]

not really

[cosmic briar]

well... if so, why not play falconer

[stable anchor]

that’s the point

[flint turret]

Not really. I can play shurikens or chakram on a falconer with the same skills mostly for example, and just have a falcon out and it will give me mana passively

And have the same rotations of sync with 4 shadows Into throw

And shift

[stable anchor]

there’s very little reason to play bd when falconer can do the same things better

if there were things to meaningfully differentiate the two then it wouldn’t matter that one is weaker

[cosmic briar]

well, if they are probably same, we have just useless class?

or i dont get the main point

[hybrid marsh]

thats the point

BD is useless atm

[flint turret]

Kinda yeah

[cosmic briar]

if so, i am with u guys

[flint turret]

Outside of lm and dancing

[stable anchor]

yeah, bd is in a bad spot because it’s just a worse version of another class

[flint turret]

Which are niche already

[stable anchor]

even then those two are just slightly different flavours of the same thing

use smoke bomb/sync strike to set up a bunch of shadows, spend shadows, repeat

[flint turret]

Falconer outclasses bd even in shadow daggers

[hybrid marsh]

Would you rather have "Pumpkin pie" or "SUPER pumpkin pie?" the difference? just the flavor, the price/availability is the same!

[flint turret]

I'd argue about price. Falconer can clear much higher with much less investment, so...

[cosmic briar]

i hope we will be able to use heartseeker as falconer

damage as in current shadow stack and hearseeker as main skill

mmmmm

jucy

[flint turret]

Hmmmm actually

That gave me an idea

[stable anchor]

we need another way to generate shadows and a reason to not make umbrals a mandatory inclusion in every skill that uses shadows

[flint turret]

Have someone tested passive heartseeker from helm interaction with falconer mark/avian arsenal/exposed weakness?

[stable anchor]

you get very little recurve chance and no more multis from the tree if you’re not marksman though

plus you can only have one so it is extra hits but not many

[flint turret]

Yeah but 5-10 hits is all you need to get a huge buff from avian arsenal if you use falcon strikes and heartseeker at the same time once

[stable anchor]

avian arsenal has a 5 stack cap though

and most things using that node are probably hitting that already no?

[flint turret]

That's why I'm saying it should have enough recurve

Not really

It's not that easy to utilize avian arsenal

[stable anchor]

what is the base recurve chance

[flint turret]

100% afaik

[stable anchor]

it’s like 4-5 hits on average every 3 seconds without recurve affixes

or the idol

[flint turret]

Not sure if worth to bother but it can be useful in theory

[stable anchor]

if there was more recurve chance stuff available i can see it, but then you’re losing stuff like dex as well as all the crit from a helm like peak

it’s worth a look in offline though

[cosmic briar]

also we will lose daggers

if will use bow(

meh

[stable anchor]

i wonder how much flat you can get for avian arsenal though and do something silly with that maybe

[flint turret]

Hs helm has up to 11 dex

[cosmic briar]

maybe primordial HS affix? 😄

[stable anchor]

it does but you probably want the recurve chance on body armor over dex too

[flint turret]

I don't think so

[cosmic briar]

we can use rare chest instead of null

probably losing only some defences, but if we stack shadows...

[stable anchor]

losing out on 20% inc health and 20% dr? monka

[cosmic briar]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees buuuuuuuuuuut we caaaaaaaaaaan

we dont want, but we can...

[stable anchor]

t7 on helm is only 40% which is like 3 extra hits on average i think

gets you to like 7-8 hits

[flint turret]

I don't think you even need that many

It's just a support tech for avian arsenal it's not a main skill in any way

Basically you just change a helmet and that's it

I'm not gonna test it because I had enough of testing a stupid bird after 1 season. Snapshotting, buffs without icons, bugged interactions, wrong skill and passive descriptions, etc, got the best of me

[stable anchor]

for umbrals?

[flint turret]

What does umbrals have to do with it

[stable anchor]

as a support skill for which build i mean

[flint turret]

For minion obviously, because it's the only one who cares about avian arsenal

[stable anchor]

it would depend on which skill/build you're supporting with it

the crit bird builds probably want peak

[flint turret]

Since umbrals are used for midnight aviary they don't really do a job of triggering avian arsenal enough

[wild hare]

Yo what's up guys

How is streaming going on twitch

[flint turret]

Crit is never an issue for a falcon

Untill talon knives are bugged

[wild hare]

Actually I'm a streamer but I help alot of streamer to promote there channel for the streamers who want to get more engagement on there channel

Want progress for there channel

The streamer who line to being on monetized

On affiliate or partnership

[flint turret]

Do you even play last epoch?

[wild hare]

If any body need helps kindly chat me up so that we can start the promotion on there various channels

[flint turret]

Guess not

[teal sundial]

mods gettem

[native token]

lol what a scambot

[teal sundial]

RAWR

[wild hare]

I play cod valorant destiny warcraft all the time

[teal sundial]

ok

[native token]

do people actually fall for this

[teal sundial]

I will use the weapon

@mods

wait

you cant ping mods anymore???

[flint turret]

Bruh

[teal sundial]

<@&1161418687471956101>

there

im dumb

ook

im just cooked

Ill be honest I havent been on my pc much since it exploded the other day so im out of the loop and my brain is mush

[native token]

maybe scam guy can hook you up with a new streaming pc, just need to send him your SSN and whatnot

[stable anchor]

is it actually capped crit without peak? i haven't bothered to do the math for that one

bird has too many weird sources of crit scaling that it makes it like the worst to calculate crit on lol

[flint turret]

Well, for me when my brain is a mush, theorycrafting about some stupid game build or whatever is exactly what helps to distract myself enough

[flint turret]

Both flat crit and crit % from weapon gets used by talon knives, and falcon gets tons of flat crit from the conversion in falconry, so it's super easy to cap the dive bomb crit

[stable anchor]

you don't normally build %crit on daggers though no?

[flint turret]

Probably not

[stable anchor]

so you will have a shit ton of flat but very little increased

[flint turret]

But it doesn't mean you cant

Well, that's the best part

Avian arsenal gives exactly flat

[stable anchor]

hmm

[flint turret]

And increased is solved by dex and minion damage on belt or whatever

Phys% on inheritance can give quite a chunk if you want it that much

[stable anchor]

you're giving up flat for inc% crit on dagger to give your falcon more flat through arsenal, but since you have less flat on your weapon now it might not make up the difference

it's possible, i see the vision but i'd clock it as unlikely

plus i think the limiting factor on arsenal is how frequently you can apply mark, not how many hits you can get

[flint turret]

Weapons give very little flat to falcon via talon knives

It's only 30%

Flat throw on the other hand converts at x1.5 to bonus flat via avian arsenal and 0.5 from passive, so it's basically double

[stable anchor]

if you can max out the arsenal stacks

[flint turret]

Applying mark is not an issue with falcon strikes, it's around 8 marks in 1.5 seconds

Or whatever the exact numbers are

[stable anchor]

with aviary aren't you generally not using strikes

[flint turret]

For clearing probably not as much, but on bosses to double your damage I don't see why not

[stable anchor]

it interrupts your dive bomb and aerial no?

[flint turret]

During clearing you will be getting occasional mark consumes from aa umbrals

Aa applies umbrals consume

[flint turret]

It does. But you will either have a CD between them, or if you already can spam them fast enough, they will apply enough marks themselves

[stable anchor]

if the umbrals from aa aren't getting enough procs for the 5 stacks in 10 seconds then it would help you get there

[flint turret]

Aa has only 40% to apply mark, so it's basically 1 stack per 2.5aa on a single target

When you hit lots of enemies that changes ofc

[stable anchor]

yeah it would mostly be a bossing thing anyways

[flint turret]

Not really. When you aa into 10 enemies and don't one-shot them, that's basically 4 marks

[stable anchor]

the thing is when you aa into 10 enemies you do one-shot them lol

[flint turret]

If you don't cap throwing crit and don't get more damage to full health enemies, you usually dont

I would prefer to one-shot with aa probably still tho

[stable anchor]

yeah not necessarily with aa itself but oneshotting non-bosses is generally not a problem for that build lol

[atomic vapor]

sorry I didn't read the entire convo but how are you guys suggesting you spam falconer marks with AA? you know featherstorm is not a hit right?

[stable anchor]

no not really

we're discussing the idea of using the heartseeker helm for avian arsenal procs

i think it's not entirely impossible that it would do things but pretty unlikely

[atomic vapor]

I'm just trying to understand how falconer's mark gets applied consistently in this scenario in the first place

to be consumed

[flint turret]

Every falcon hit is 40% mark, and falcon strikes are 100%

[stable anchor]

you would need to manually cast falcon strikes

[atomic vapor]

are you waiting out the entire falcon strikes animation or, I'm trying to understand the theoretical rotation

because this sounds very clunky for mapping

[stable anchor]

falcon strikes do have a long animation

[flint turret]

For mapping you live with what you get from aa umbrals

[atomic vapor]

aa umbrals do jack nothing without bladestorm and if you intend for them to stay on the ground, bladestorm is out of the question or midnight aviary is useless

AA has horrid clear with regular umbrals

[flint turret]

Aa has pretty good damage in a minion build bruh

[atomic vapor]

I'm almost certain I read cap throwing crit, was the discussion minion stat inheritance, that's what probably got me confused

[flint turret]

Yes and that's exactly what gives you damage to aa and dive

[atomic vapor]

I should've backread the entire thing ok that makes way more sense

[flint turret]

Throwing is converted to bonus aa damage with projectile training and to dive damage via avian arsenal and throwing passive

There is nothing new about it, it's basically the same as in 1.0

I just thought about using heartseeker to trigger avian arsenal and that's pretty much it

And I dont know if it works for exposed weakness or not

[atomic vapor]

so you apply mark with falcon strikes and consume it with wing burst? how's that for bossing

it doesn't sound like the fastest cycle ever

[flint turret]

No

Falcon hits don't consume marks

Only your hits do

[stable anchor]

you consume from the heartseeker helm and umbrals

[atomic vapor]

oh right, wing burst is a falcon hit, okay I see so it's safe in that regard

how good was that before dive bomb exploded, I didn't play falconer in 1.0

[flint turret]

I used bladestorm in 1.0 to consume up to 10 marks(avian was 10 stacks back then)

But that left me without midnight aviary

And having midnight doesn't allow you fast mark consumption

That's where heartseeker came in

[atomic vapor]

3 second cd on a 10 second duration (even if umbrals don't consume in an entire pack)

it sounds pretty permanent

[flint turret]

Like I said I have no intention of testing, but feel free to

[atomic vapor]

all I'm saying is you have one recurve base, and a 3 second cd

which is 6 applications in 10 seconds

so perma 5 stacks

am I missing something

[flint turret]

Yeah

Marks don't stack

[atomic vapor]

the buff, not marks

unless you mean you don't apply them fast enough

[stable anchor]

well your heartseeker isn’t gonna go to a new target unless the original dies

[flint turret]

Yeah but to consume 5 marks with 1 hs you need to apply marks in between recurves

[stable anchor]

that too

[flint turret]

And it doesn't sound that permanent now is it

[atomic vapor]

we need birds aren't real for falcon strikes...

[flint turret]

That's why I was saying I was using falcon strikes and bladestorm at the same time with 3/s hit rate

[atomic vapor]

I hate how limiting this interaction is lol

[flint turret]

Dunno, I feel like it's a great design

You can either easily consume marks with bladestorm and buff dive with arsenal or you can use midnight and buff it from umbrals on a ground

[atomic vapor]

I think it's funny how this is a unique case of falcon skills interrupting each other being counter productive

and obviously shadow falcons are to blame

[flint turret]

Not both

[stable anchor]

burning dagger relic spamming potions for procs?

[flint turret]

I wouldn't say interrupting, more like choosing your preferred way to buff a minion damage

[flint turret]

Haha, nice

[atomic vapor]

yeah but this would still be very cool if falcon strikes were uninterruptable

[flint turret]

Oh wait

[atomic vapor]

dragon fire procs off only your hits right?

[stable anchor]

yes but your umbrals would work

but at that point you’re missing like all the +levels

[atomic vapor]

with bladestorm yes, because unspecced they're a singular hit

yeah I know I was just wondering

would be genuinely cool to somehow maintain 5 buff stacks and take advantage of midnight aviary

[flint turret]

Dam I remembered about smite on throwing hit but smite is a spell

Sadge

[atomic vapor]

are the rotating shurikens hits

[flint turret]

They hit only once per cast

And you would have aa instead of shift anyway

[atomic vapor]

caltrops

yeah I got nothing

[flint turret]

Hm caltrops

[atomic vapor]

it's bad for mapping

[flint turret]

Too inconsistent probably

[atomic vapor]

yeah

[stable anchor]

glacier helm is 3 hits on evade

[flint turret]

Yeah

It's a spell too

[stable anchor]

also a spell

yep

[flint turret]

So far only heatseeker has some chance to somewhat help with arsenal

Considering non specced umbrals ofc

[atomic vapor]

water orb is a hit lol

[flint turret]

Also spell

We need only melee or throwing or bow

[atomic vapor]

the only other rogue skill I can think of that does continuous hit damage is shadow daggers from smoke bomb

[flint turret]

Not that definitely

It's like 2 hits per smoke

Or less?

[atomic vapor]

maybe traversal node + cdr boots belt + cdr implicit purple gloves 😭 I think that's 3 smoke bombs (also horrible for maps)

[flint turret]

Smoke bombs capped to 2 already

[atomic vapor]

oh right yeah rip

to be fair though

4 hits on average + heartseeker

[flint turret]

One of the weirdest decisions

[atomic vapor]

I'm definitely reaching atp lol

[flint turret]

I guess they wanted to be double -foolproof for not having infinite smoke stacking again even after dutarion prolongation fix

[atomic vapor]

I'm gonna be honest the more I look at caltrops they aren't the worst, especially since AA can litter the ground with them

[flint turret]

Yeah I think it could be worth a points

Or maybe not

[atomic vapor]

if that's not enough, resort to nihilis + shattered worlds for as much +skills as you can and just grab both nodes

[flint turret]

Minion aa is quite point-starved already

[atomic vapor]

spikefield seeing usage rare moment

you should have enough with nihilis, shattered worlds and double minion rings no?

[flint turret]

Yeah if umbrals and razor are fixed maybe we will see more variety for falconer again

Be it ballista, minion or mourningfrost

[atomic vapor]

even if umbrals get destroyed, bleed falconer might see popular use I was thinking

[flint turret]

It's clear is shit

[atomic vapor]

really ok that sucks

man

[flint turret]

Yeah it's all about stacking bleed with falcon strikes and exploding with dive

Dive does zdps without prestacked bleed

Can use aa umbrals for bleed too I guess

But that's basically the same shit as now

[atomic vapor]

and again caltrops 😭

[flint turret]

Caltrops can do decent damage given a dedicated shock stacking setup

[atomic vapor]

the bleed node does have some pretty decent looking scaling with dex, I don't think it's too far away from viability if the new patch gives some extra support

[flint turret]

But that's really meme-ish

[atomic vapor]

have the poison nodes ever done anything in the history of the mastery

[flint turret]

Poison was shot in the knee ever before I started playing in 0.9. it used to be op on every class that could use it afaik

[atomic vapor]

it feels like almost every tree carries that one side of it that's just poison baggage

[flint turret]

Yeah rogue has quite a lot for poison and almost nothing is ever used anymore

[stable anchor]

i did a meme build with net trap puncture for shadow daggers but you could do it with bleed as a falconer probably

it stacks up stuff super fast but idk if it’s really worth that lol

unfortunately it’s the only way to get shadows to use puncture

[atomic vapor]

game has shown how strong dot builds can be, and while yeah time rot and serpent venom are downright broken, a strong dot falconer would be really cool to see, maybe that'd help redeem it from 3200% more damage umbrals

[calm pike]

can someone carry my low level rogue for levels

please

[stable anchor]

featherstorm poison might be neat idk

[stable anchor]

do bird flasks scale off your stats or bird's

serpent's milk with cold acid flask

[tranquil urchin]

I did a dagger explosive/acid flask buy the other week cos well end of season so lots of 3x7 and some 4x7 items - even with insane gear the build was pretty mid, specially compared to say fire flask which was uber viable and 10 second normal abs dmg, wish acid flask would get a flipping big ol' buff its not even really a support unless its converted 😭

[cobalt mantle]

They are your acid flasks, but the throw speed is the bird's

[stable anchor]

i figured lol

[toxic swift]

my keyboard is mechanical and has n-key rollover and I still encounter this issue on occasion. I think the skill queue is just kinda finicky sometimes

[cobalt mantle]

The skill slots do have priority, ones on the left will be used over any to their right

[toxic swift]

sick

you can keep the ping on replies to my messages btw

[cosmic briar]

@atomic vapor can i ask, is this video recorded before or after dive bomb nerf?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZAehU96wLg

[graceful notch]

Look day post

[rugged pollen]

it's dusk stack UB build

[cosmic briar]

It is, but he utilizing divebomb also, that's the point of question

[rugged pollen]

after then

[cosmic briar]

Nvm, I dumbass

XD

[rugged pollen]

idk why ppl dont use the word "change" instead of "nerf" for this

since the change resulted in something stronger

yeah as i thought. in the comment section there are sereval ppl saying the build is nerfed lol

[zenith bridge]

@flint turret what nerf do you expect for falconer? Its still gonna be broken but what skillnodes are they going to touch?

[fair quail]

Petition to get the create shadow text updated, doesn't include all skills they actually use xD

[flint turret]

Hmmm, tricky question. Would be easier to tell what I think can be done rather than to guess what ehg will do. Let's see...
They can potentially nerf the "more damage" nodes in umbrals(which I'm opposed to), and increased damage per dusk shrouds idols(opposed too) instead of nerfing dusk shrouds stacking itself(because they deliberately fixed/buffed it mid season for whatever reason)
Minion falconer can remain mostly unchanged because it's of the radars right now since everyone is playing umbrals, and people will just go back to minion with inheritance.

Also we might see razorfall nerf from 20 to 25 dex or whatever

[atomic vapor]

I've genuinely never had that happen to me, and I've watched countless of my own videos played back in slow motion to see numbers/stacks etc

[flint turret]

Maybe they will nerf a bit of cdr nodes too

[atomic vapor]

The cdr nodes are the only thing that received a direct response to the situation in that reddit post right? We can at least expect they're aware that both AA and dive bomb are currently machineguns

[atomic vapor]

During that time was the time that the rogue channel was seeing a surge of people coming in asking if falconer is dead

[flint turret]

Well, that's a lot due to a CD refund on animation cancel which exists for whatever reason from the beginning and nothing suggests they oppose it in any way

So I would guess that will remain unchanged

[cosmic briar]

It isn't, I just trying to research some league start strategy

[atomic vapor]

I'd assume shadow falcons copying interrupted dive bombs isn't something that's easy to re-code

[cosmic briar]

Since u don't wanna play falconer w/O any uniques

[atomic vapor]

Especially when their focus is acolyte for now

But it's not too hard to put a cap on the refunded cd

[flint turret]

That was irritating ngl. It was obvious from the patch notes even before it went live that they are buffing dusk stacking to heavens

And people coming asking about dead falconer or already complaining about it

[cosmic briar]

Less falconers better

Razorfalls then won't be 1b on day 3

[atomic vapor]

Mg wise, I don't expect razors with lp to ever be cheap if falconer doesn't get gutted lol

[cosmic briar]

Need at least 0lp to be bought for Weaver tree

And even 0lp was expensive as hell last time in case of falconers amount

[atomic vapor]

Yeah imprints hard carry mg we talked about this before. Can buy any double t7 and imprint it into a good one yourself with time

If anything mg has a jump start in that regard because they'll be able to buy a double t7 probably before a cof player finds one

Ofc it's rng but

[cosmic briar]

Yep, but at first y need to find it. Too right for sure will be for daggers, another one for razorfall

[atomic vapor]

2lp traitors will never be too expensive since 4lp traitors are farmable

It has a very low lp level for how strong it is

[cosmic briar]

U don't wanna imprint double t7 from market since if u drop another one it will be untradeable

Better move will take any double t7 and hope something drop for swap rune

[atomic vapor]

Depends on how cheap it will be to buy double t7s in bulk lol

[cosmic briar]

Or craft in 4nd affix and swap

[atomic vapor]

If double t7s go for a billion, rather imprint

[cosmic briar]

Never will be if we talk about good t7

Dex+throwing was goldcap even early than RRs

[atomic vapor]

That's why I'm saying buy a bad cheap double t7 and just make one for yourself with imprint and focus your money on other slots

Though I don't play mg so maybe that's a bad strategy

Yeah I can imagine

[cosmic briar]

Probably as mg player u wanna imprint uniques at first I can say

Well... We talked about that several months ago, mg players have problems with uniques, cof players have problems with fodder

XD

[atomic vapor]

That's why I'm saying cof was so strong this season. I got dex and throw blood roosts shortly after the nerf

While someone linked an entry for gold cap

I was like damn, and I made that in one day

[cosmic briar]

U just was lucky to have fodder like that

I seen many cof players who can't get a single fodder item in weeks

Same for mg with RRs

Or razorfalls

[atomic vapor]

We did with my party around 150 conquered towers

I had triple t7 for half the slots

[cosmic briar]

And I made most of money on mg just on selling single-double-tripple t7 fodder so

Yes, it's just different kind of problems

[atomic vapor]

I'm not saying it's normal how hard some of us grinded, but we made some nasty items. I have a 4lp jungle with 3 t7

2lp shattered and nihilis with dex throw

But we grinded like there's no tomorrow

[cosmic briar]

Anyway, since I haven't much knowledge about LE still, I just need to plan my strategy on start

[atomic vapor]

Are you not considering cof if they fix prophecies?

[cosmic briar]

For sure it will be mg, but question will I be able to run enough fast for took first RRs from market before it will need to goldcap+snipe them

[cosmic briar]

Too love trading playstyle, so cof isn't for me at all. But I really think if I ever will play SSF it will be on last epoch

[atomic vapor]

Ahh makes sense for sure

[flint turret]

Rrs are pretty easy for cof btw

[atomic vapor]

1lps still take a little while

It took me 5 days for both

[cosmic briar]

Probably for mg it doesn't matter how many lp

U will snipe even clear one for print

XD

[atomic vapor]

Yeah printing a 1lp is easy

[cosmic briar]

That's why speed is most thing I need

[atomic vapor]

What is it 1/16 for you

1/8 for cof

[flint turret]

Considering nemesis, it's better

[cosmic briar]

Just in case of RRs and razorfall

[atomic vapor]

Those new egg things scare me, I foresee a nemesis nerf lmao

[cosmic briar]

Strat with turtle doesn't work for mg, if u don't unbelievably lucky, but if u unbelievably lucky u will just drop them from ground lmao

[atomic vapor]

Yeah I can imagine turtle being hard for mg

[flint turret]

Mg or cof is mostly irrelevant if you are unlucky

[cosmic briar]

It's not probably hard, it's just useless

[atomic vapor]

It's not the easiest thing to have 3 tabs of daggers ready to feed them

[cosmic briar]

In case of weight

Daggers is better to buy, while razorfalls or RRs just never will hit even 2lp

[atomic vapor]

Yeah but right now cof is all about taking 100s of the same unique and feeding them to the turtle for the super endgame, it's not efficient for mg to do that hoarding

[flint turret]

The thing that broke me this season was me turtling 2 full stash tabs of 1lp row and then 20 nemesis towering them just to get 0 of 2lp on cof

Which is close to impossible mathematically

[atomic vapor]

I turtled around 3 entire tabs of jungle belts before I got a 4lp, 3 times over which is stupid lucky because that was around half odds

[cosmic briar]

Well... I have a story from Poe for ya Ragu

[atomic vapor]

I expected it to take twice as long

[cosmic briar]

Counted that middle rate of mirror of kalandra drop is 30-40 sacred orbs

I get 461sacreds before seen first mirror

[atomic vapor]

Wasn't mirror farm easy this league

[cosmic briar]

Depends on your luck... As always

It's same with RRs

[atomic vapor]

People dropped 3-4 natural ones I've been told

[cosmic briar]

XD

[atomic vapor]

From those what was it beast maps?

Whatever they're called

[cosmic briar]

Alvas 16.5 strategy, that as ragu said before it's doesn't matter if u unlucky

[flint turret]

Nice

[atomic vapor]

The only thing in the game that doesn't seem to follow conventional odds is slamming

always in favor of julra

I bricked 6 2lp nihilis with god rolls, but I hit the first shattered worlds 2lp

[cosmic briar]

Bricked 50 2lp razorfalls and forgot about that xD

[atomic vapor]

😭