🧙┃mage

[next lance]

what is this

[nimble shoal]

It's the chain that blocks you from mastery-locked things on the masteries you didn't select

[harsh abyss]

If its like other things, the channel node will cast a single cast of LB. The doublecast node wont work because it requires you to direct cast LB

Yeah, my assumption is that when you shatter set pieces, their unique affixes are what you can use to turn other items into set items. So it follows that you'd be able to slap a "convert meteor to lightning" shard on a staff to make it a vilatria set piece. If that's not the case... then shattering sets would be kind of worthless 🤷‍♀️

[weary hamlet]

I mean they could go the way of just adding the multiple piece set bonuses on exalts, but they would need to rework some of the sets for that

[harsh abyss]

The only thing the is mildly concerning to figure is how to stop set bonuses from being BIS on every piece. Like ANY mage is going to want the Vilatria set bonus of +1 flat damage per Int, so how do they make it so people ever choose anything else?

The key might be if set affixes can't go on legendary items, then you have to choose between a set affix and a unique item for a given slot

[next frost]

exactly what I posted yesterday
either you go legendary or you go for something counting towards set bonuses

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, it makes sense

[next frost]

I feel it's also easier to balance than allowing any set affixes to be added to exalted items

[harsh abyss]

Definitely. It also keeps things from being funneled down a single "BIS" option.

[next frost]

or maybe, it's a fixed chosen 1 affix per set item, and you cant pick it, which would turn your exalted as a set item

like, if set affixes are a thing, maybe vilatria staff would always give you "+(65 to 130) Mana", and not the other ones
but your new staff with that affix would count towards the 2 pieces set bonus

i just cant see them allowing us to get any affixes from set items

[harsh abyss]

Maybe, but if that's the case it should at least be the most interesting of affixes from the set. Like, Vilatria staff without the "convert meteor to lightning" affix completely removes the identity of the set, so that's the logical one to add. Maybe it also has a chance to shatter into "increased lightning damage" or "increased mana" shards so you don't always get that unique affix though.

Also if set pieces have to compete with legendaries, then it should definitely be the most interesting/powerful affix that's tied to the set.

Because they're effectively reverse-legendaries (move a unique affix to an exalted item, rather than move an exalted affix to a unique item)

[next frost]

Vilatria is a very specific example, usually the interesting part is more in the set bonuses than in the set affixes
However, you could want to get the "+1 spell lightning damage per 2 int" bonus and scale something else than meteor
If your build is already stacking int, maybe it'd be worth turning your staff/helmet as set instead of as legendary.
And to get the lightning meteor, you'd still have to use the actual set staff, keeping some of its identity

Any of what we're saying could work, we'll just have to wait to know

[harsh abyss]

I actually disagree with your first point. Almost every set item has affixes that directly contribute to the theme/identity of the set inside the items themselves. Shattered lance without Deicide + Health Regen + Increased cold melee damage? Last Bear without strength scaling and regen? Sunforged without forged weapon stuff?

Sure a few of them are more generic, like the Invoker's set, but a lot of them would lose their identity entirely if the item doesn't have 1-2 affixes on it.

And I'd argue the ones that are more generic are the ones that see a lot less use. I use Vilatria because there is a very clear build scenario for it, which every set should probably have.

[next frost]

Ya, I'm not saying we shouldnt have any set affixes, but more that EHG should probably limit the ones we can obtain, else it could very easily become pretty wild

(if they go with set affixes, and not just turning an exalted into "part of X set")

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, I'm hoping they provide more details on it soon. Vilatria is one of my favorite builds, so I'm excited to see what's coming.

[next frost]

are you ready for mana guide coc lightning meteor? ⚡

[harsh abyss]

Probably not what I'll play, but yeah definitely

[proven haven]

Didn't ghazzy spill the beans on what it does?

[harsh abyss]

He said that you can apply the set shards to rare items, but that doesn't really tell us very much more than we already guessed 😝

[proven haven]

Vilatria was the first thought I had too. Anything with high flat scaling can use this well

Certainly you can't apply affixes because they are definitely not balanced that way

Imagine putting ferebors 18 INT on an opal ring with INT

[rapid hinge]

i think they'll go D4 legendary aspect

extract the "aspect" and slam it into rares

[proven haven]

I wonder if by rare he meant rare or exalt

[harsh abyss]

I think stats that have "regular" shards will just shatter into those regular shards, and the unique set bonuses will shatter into "set shards"

So int from a set item would just shatter into an int shard

[proven haven]

But they aren't 1:1 the rolls are different they aren't always on pieces that allow that affix etc

Maybe though idk

[rapid hinge]

pointless to guess at this point

but i think a good way to implement it is

each set has one unique mod

which you can only get

by slamming the shard of each set piece into the corresponding item slot

[next frost]

if people only speculated when there was a point, nothing would happen on this discord in the next 3 weeks

[proven haven]

Speculating is fun

The same as playing the game

[harsh abyss]

Agreed, guessing is part of the fun

[proven haven]

That's why we do it, neither have a "point"

[harsh abyss]

Theorycrafting is like 40% of the enjoyment I get out of ARPGs 😝

[proven haven]

One could argue that nothing we do in our lives has a point, but that's getting too philosophical

[next frost]

for me, it'd even say it's 90% of the game

[harsh abyss]

I rarely get to Empowered monos because my theorycrafted build "Works" by that point and I get bored just playing it

[next frost]

usually, it's theorycrafting, make the build, then "oh ya, it works nicely" and then not engaged enough to farm all the legendaries to push a little bit further

[proven haven]

I'm the opposite, I take stuff that is good and fine tune it to absurdity

[harsh abyss]

I have one build that I want to see how far I can push it, because I'm pretty sure no one else has made similar builds. It's the hipster in me

[proven haven]

Gotta admit though the FC Spark theory crafted before 1.1 dropped actually working was so satisfying

[next frost]

and now the hard part is to accept to not theorycraft anything until we have the actual 1.2 information...

[proven haven]

The patch notes drop is when 1.2 really starts for folks like us

[next frost]

and then, spamming Mike in #askthedev to get all the missing pieces of information
like when they didnt include any number (damage, effectiveness, mana, cooldown) for the falconer skills in 1.0

[harsh abyss]

I'm hoping that the interview tomorrow also comes with some sort of news

[proven haven]

ChapelleCrack.jpg -caption="Got any more of that news?"

[next frost]

well, 4 interviews, i guess it could be

• woven faction (tree + erased areas + monolith modifiers)
• items (set bonuses/affixes + new uniques + champion's affixes)
• skills (sentinel rework + mm's heartseeker)
  and 4th a big whatever because we'd already have the patch notes by then

[proven haven]

WASD xd

[weary hamlet]

set bonuses if implemented like this would be competing with legendary items in the same slots, so at least that's a consideration

also the UI they've shown us was very limited, in the video it said that the player had 2/2 charges of using the set forge, so at that rate even getting one set of set bonus exalts is gonna be a slog

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, having sets be reverse-legendaries is probably a good balance

[harsh abyss]

You're gonna fill it with copies of the same set piece though. You can fit like 8 vilatria staffs and 3 helmets in there

[next frost]

i dont see another way to do this, tbh
plus it creates an healthy balance because endgame bis wont be full legendary, and i'm expecting exalted-set to be easier to achieve than 2+LP proper legendaries

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, though the LE devs are good at coming up with solid solutions so maybe they've come up with something more creative we haven't thought of yet.

[next frost]

they said only 1% of the playerbase got to 300 corruption, and they might want make it easier to reach that (even if in the end it will powercreep everything, but i dont think they care about people clearing 2k+ corruption)

would make aberroth more accessible too, i guess

[harsh abyss]

I mean, corruption grind is hella boring for a lot of folks.

Hopefully the weaver stuff makes it more interesting

[next frost]

i believe half the reasons people dont push is because it's boring, and the other half is because when they reach empower, they dont have the damage/defense to handle pushing corruption
having an easier access to set bonuses could be a way to smooth up the power curve

[harsh abyss]

Very possibly, yeah. I know for me corruption grind gets boring because there's no clear goal, it's just the infinite road ahead.

The Atlas tree from POE helped that sort of situation immensely, I'm hoping the weaver tree helps similarly

[next frost]

well, now there's always aberroth / uber aberroth
but i 100% agree with you, i have the hardest time pushing for the sake of pushing
hence why now i try to theorycraft builds that are also fun to play, and not something painful but 200% effective

[harsh abyss]

Yeah

[unreal blade]

with the negative mana and scaling missing mana on focus, you can get some pretty crazy mana regen. with a full cost meteor below positive mana and a 2000 mana pool, that's 200 mana per sec with misc regen on gear and passive tree, so you are pretty close to affording full cost meteors, assuming you only get a proc about once a sec.

[next frost]

ya that's the math we came up with the other day
but since then i also realized we could use another trick that'd give another 200 mana per second

[unreal blade]

what's that

[next frost]

however

very painful to use

[harsh abyss]

I've never looked into how overflow works for focus. Does ALL of your mana regen continue above 100% mana at that point? Or just the focus mana regen?

[unreal blade]

i believe it's only the overflow scaling

but haven't tested

[next frost]

a very important distinction in how no cooldown focus works
while it removes the 40 mana/ward burst, it does not remove the 10% of missing mana gain
so if missing 2000 mana, you can channel 1 sec, get an extra 200 mana, channel 1 sec, get an extra 200 mana
over keeping focus channeled the whole time

BUT
it sounds like a pain to play like that

so i wouldnt consider that

[harsh abyss]

ew that sounds terrible

[next frost]

it does

but it doubles your mana gain

[nocturne temple]

mana guide has me locked in the builder fr

was testing zap with LB and the range seemed really bad?

[next frost]

also, @unreal blade , cant use the negative mana node with the no cooldown one
have to stop at desperate meditation

so it's like 150-200 mana per second from it
and then another 200 if you do the silly burst trick

[unreal blade]

desperate meditation works with negative mana. i'm not saying to go past it.

[next frost]

right, but at worst you'll be at -100, which is nothing since already missing 2000

at best 5% more regen

not something i'd advertised as playing with negative mana

[unreal blade]

220 i think is the highest meteor cost (short of using horns of ukheiros)

so you can get -220 and 2000 mana pool = 2220% inc mana regen

[next frost]

1110%

you forgot an important text line on mana guide

[unreal blade]

is it reduced?

[nocturne temple]

halved

[next frost]

that's why i had around 150 mana per second when i did rough math

[unreal blade]

hm i was reading that as the 100% it gives naturally is only 50% increased

but it could affect the entire thing

[next frost]

no clue tbh

i want to say it's the whole thing

but EHG isnt the most consistent on text vs in-game behaviour 🤐

[unreal blade]

also that's a horrible ss 😉

[next frost]

idk, i took the one someone posted on reddit, with most of the new stuff

[unreal blade]

i put these albums together while watching the trailer the first time, getting the clearest shots i could:

Tombs of the Erased Trailer Snapshot Recap - https://imgur.com/a/RcX62TW
Tombs of the Erased Uniques - https://imgur.com/a/I68ajsq

[next frost]

i'd be very surprised if it doesnt halve desperate meditation

[nocturne temple]

the 3 blast per second doesnt seem enough at all to get a meteor proc /s

[next frost]

missed the
/s

;p

[nocturne temple]

no

i meant /s like per second

lol

[next frost]

oh

[nocturne temple]

it was my b i should typed it differently

[unreal blade]

yeah with sparks and shrapnel it shouldn't be too hard

[next frost]

then there're so many ways to proc extra hits

the issue is the mana, really

[unreal blade]

plus each meteor is multiple meteors

[nocturne temple]

are we sure the set deconstruction isnt to buff the set peices themselves?

or has it been leaked at all

[next frost]

you'll likely be perma oom, having scaled mana to 2k
and not having any left for defense
so mana guide coc meteor sounds very squishy

[next frost]

0 info, wait&see
the most usual expectation is to be able to put set bonuses on exalted items, and maybe adding set affixes

[unreal blade]

if it indeed is halved full effect then yeah you can't afford max cost meteors, but multiple meteors is only 126 mana per, so it might be doable.

and you can reduce that too if you have enough points

to ~85 iirc

[next frost]

the biggest issue is defense, no?

[nocturne temple]

focus full dr?

[unreal blade]

you'd have to go mana defense

[next frost]

but you're oom

[nocturne temple]

oh right

lol

[unreal blade]

nah you'd have to tune consumption to allow for defense

[harsh abyss]

Or you just build meteor so it doesn't cast multiple meteors. Keep the mana cost low and use the Stardust node to get a lot of your mana

[next frost]

there's no way you can perfectly tailor the amount of meteor proccing so you dont end up oom
a little more density on trash and boom you're gone

[unreal blade]

also depending on how you build it, focus itself provides a lot of DR. if you can get meteors and LB to do enough damage, then that might be a way.

[next frost]

ya, but then we dont have mana defense, so it's either life or ward
but we're already heavily invested into mana

so while focus is a lot of DR, where's the regen coming from?

[unreal blade]

just gotta go cheap meteors

[unreal blade]

you can get all the DR stuff and the regen at the same time

you just have to give up doing damage with focus

[next frost]

you still need to go pick up the no cooldown

[unreal blade]

nah

the cooldown occurs while it's being cast iirc, so as long as you hold it for 2-3 seconds, you can cast again with a little bit of CDR

[next frost]

hum, i'll go check that now

[nocturne temple]

both null nodes add 9 s though total

[unreal blade]

not taking null stuff

[next frost]

the good point of not taking cooldown is that we cant do the 1s mana trick

self-preservation ;p

[harsh abyss]

I think the easier solution is just cheap meteors. You're building full lightning anyway, and the Stardust node makes vilatria meteors do tons of damage on their own.

[unreal blade]

this is the tree i have on my runemaster version. very easy to pick up desperate meditation with all the defense stuff

[next frost]

confirmed, cd starts when you start channeling

[nocturne temple]

why 1 into overflow?

[next frost]

so as long as you dont instantly get a stun, should be fine

[unreal blade]

gives focus lightning tag, i'm using enigma and unstable core so it gives me 2 points

[harsh abyss]

overflow will be a good source of crits, but you don't need it to do tons of dps to crit to proc meteors

[unreal blade]

plus it's one more proc source for spark charges, which is the entire damage profile of my runemaster version.

[next frost]

triboelectra could be +3 on its own too

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, triboelectra is so good for that +3, even if you don't use any of its other stuff

[unreal blade]

wrongwarp too valuable for movespeed and %inc dmg

[next frost]

the thing is

maybe we'll be stuck with a staff

for vilatria

depending on how set works

[harsh abyss]

Well, you wouldn't go RM if you're doing Vilatria

[next frost]

ofc ofc

i was back on meteor ;p

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, I think those are two different builds

[next frost]

very

i think there's 3 possible mana guide ideas atm

[unreal blade]

as long as the set bonus only needs to be on one of the original item types, the dmg per int could be applied to helm

[next frost]

but then you lose the lightning meteor and 80% more modifier

[harsh abyss]

The damage per int is the set bonus, I don't think you'll apply that directly to items

[unreal blade]

it would suck to give up barbute, but i'd take a rare/exalt with vilatria bonus over it for sure.

[next frost]

also, the dmg per int is lightning, which would work with scaling fire

[harsh abyss]

I think set bonuses will need you to have the set still, and you'll need to have them applied to get the set bonuses

[unreal blade]

my build doesn't use meteor

[next frost]

no, but i think we'll be able to apply "vilatria" to a staff and a helmet, thus getting the 2 pieces bonus

[harsh abyss]

How are you doing damage without meteor on that focus build? Just LB?

[next frost]

ofc ofc, i keep talking with the meteor one in mind, and not runemaster

[next frost]

he has enigma so likely spark charges

[harsh abyss]

3 LB casts per second is not going to apply very many spark charges

[unreal blade]

~https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BZM3geYQ

tested here: https://imgur.com/gJfWuUE

seems to work alright at 190c with garbage gear

and that's without the 3 LB per sec

uses frostwall casting LB and rune bolts plus creates ball lightning with RI

ball lightning hits 4 times a second

[harsh abyss]

Yeah ball lightning is really good

Did they fix it so it applies brand of deception every hit instead of just the first hit?

[unreal blade]

not sure but between that and frostwall it should be ok

[harsh abyss]

yeah

[unreal blade]

proc'd lightning blast does apply brand of deception if it's 15 mana btw. can't really do that with wrongwarp equipped though.

[next frost]

you think the regen from focus would be enough?
base is 30 per second, with 6% healing effectiveness per int
so 100 int would be 210 healing per second
sounds low, no?

you'd probably have 50+ from gear, so maybe you end up at 250-300

[unreal blade]

mana protects 5 damage per point, so it's pretty durable

[next frost]

oh, assuming we arent oom, right

[unreal blade]

i think sorc is probably the worse way to go, as long as spark charges are still decent (and tbh they aren't op, just the ways to apply them are). you either have to use overcharge's buffer to cast and defend with and do damage with focus, or you have to give up focus dps and still use fairly cheap cost skills to do your damage because you are so invested in mana scaling you can't defend with much else.

[next frost]

and would need 30 points to get all dr + regen + desperate

oh ya, meteor is very likely the worst mana guide version
but it sounds like the most fun one too

[unreal blade]

the runemaster version is absurdly tanky, and testing shows the damage should be at least decent

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, using frost wall to add more LB casts is definitely solid

Sorc version could instead use AA to cast more LB too

[unreal blade]

runemaster has 18k armor, so it gains like 3.5k ward after channeling 2 sec, so you can just repeat that every 2 sec for big ward chunks, and you have all that DR behind it.

i figure we'll see stuff that will make me refactor it as we get more reveals though. the vilatria set in particular is very interesting for spark charges.

[next frost]

well, it's mostly even more damage

[unreal blade]

back on this, i think you can't afford to get into an oom situation since you have to rely on mana defense

[next frost]

ya, i agree, and that's my issue with the meteor idea

with aoe, you're bound to have "over-procs" and get too many meteors, empty your mana and die

[harsh abyss]

I think if you don't scale the mana cost of meteor you can sustain the mana cost from procs

[unreal blade]

maybe there is a middle ground with lower mana investment and cheapest meteors that will allow you to build into ward more

but then damage

[harsh abyss]

Part of the problem is that if you're using mana as a defense, when you get to empowered monos, t hings are still going to chunk your mana for a pretty significant amount.

[next frost]

either you go 87 mana for 6 meteors
or 52 mana for 1 meteor
pretty similar

not like 52 vs 220

[harsh abyss]

How do you get 8 meteors? The most I can see from the tree is 6?

[next frost]

typo ;p

[harsh abyss]

oh, okay 😝

I was like, is there a unique that I'm missing?

[next frost]

technically, the damage isnt coming from the mana
mana stacking is only because of desperate meditation

[harsh abyss]

and World Ender

[unreal blade]

yeah and passives giving mana regen per max mana. idk meteor just sounds compromised.

[next frost]

wasnt it from the start? 😢
the one time i could make a good harbinger of stars build was with rampage (werebear), but that shit was so clunky and broken (still is) i couldnt push high with it (cause painful to play)

[harsh abyss]

Well that's because Rampage keeps you moving so you almost never get hit by stuff

[unreal blade]

dread is going to make a wizard bear with meteor belt, static orb wand and glacier helm

[harsh abyss]

lol

[next frost]

i dont remember, is world ender applying to shrapnels too?

yes since subskill?

or no cause it says "meteor always crits"

instead of +x% crit

[harsh abyss]

Probably not, but I've never tried it. Shrapnel always seems like a waste because it feels like a clear skill and meteor needs no help with clear.

[unreal blade]

would help proc more meteors, unless shrapnel is counted on the belt's alt text.

[next frost]

ye, "does not include crits from meteor itself"

[unreal blade]

but shrapnel is a different spell

[harsh abyss]

Also maybe a bug, but self cast meteors definitely proc meteors

[next frost]

ok, tested

shrapnels 100% crit

[harsh abyss]

Neat

[next frost]

so i guess could go infinite meteors (if mana allows)

[harsh abyss]

Possibly yeah. Thatd be silly

[next frost]

too bad i dont have an harbinger in legacy offline

[unreal blade]

RoA

[next frost]

havent played offline since that was added, and dont have a sorc online

[unreal blade]

haven't played offline since rune of ascendance?

[next frost]

i think so

wasnt that added at some point?

cause i'm not seeing any in my offline materials

[nocturne temple]

twitch drop light blast with lightning meteor would look too cool for it not to work

[unreal blade]

before i started playing in 0.8 something

[next frost]

added in 0.8.4

[unreal blade]

maybe you just used them up

unless you didn't play LE at all between 0.8.4 and online launch

[next frost]

well 0.9 was the online patch

and i've only played online since

so it makes sense to me

and ya, i dont remember if i played between 0.8.4 and 0.9, possible it was one of the many small breaks between content

anyway
if someone has harbinger and over 400 mana
should be easy to test if it can self-proc

[unreal blade]

quite a break Dec 10 2021 to March 9 2023 😄

[next frost]

uh

then i guess i've used them

[unreal blade]

i can test after work if nobody else has

[next frost]

when theorycrafting another build in the past

though it was only a couple months apart

looks like i bought LE in april 2019
oh how time flies

[harsh abyss]

Also testing, I'm pretty sure channeled LB is 8 casts per second

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, shrapnel can proc meteors from the belt. So can spark charges and spark novas ("distant spark" passive).

[next frost]

sounds way more than enough hits to empty 2k mana pretty fast, even with 200 mana per second regen

[scenic sail]

Yes, I highly recommend you DO NOT spec spark charges while wearing the Harbinger of Stars belt, because it will run you out of mana. You can certainly try it, but if you do, you almost certainly will need to stay away from the multi-meteor section of the meteor tree (stay on the left side of the meteor tree)

[harsh abyss]

Also Distant Spark will give you hella lag when you hit a huge pack of monsters with a meteor

[scenic sail]

It can work but you need lots of potions, because Harbinger of Stars gives an unlimited amount of potions per meteors cast in the past 4 seconds, you can make it work, but you need increased chance to find potions and I recommend avoiding World Ender spec with spark charges because spark charges alone will destroy your mana

[unreal blade]

no mana and no fps. sounds perfect.

[scenic sail]

Hah! That's definitely a problem with the HoS. I hope they fix the Vfx issues in v1.2 because right now I can hardly play with a group of people with my mage, it got especially bad when they upgrade to Unity 2021, glacier and meteors seem to be worse now for visual stuttering.

2/2 points in Shrapnel + 3/3 shrapnel distance makes it esepecially bad with spark charges. It's worth trying just to have a laugh but you'll be amazed at how much it runs you out of mana

[twin wolf]

Yall got any tips on killing harbingers as a shatter strike build

[next frost]

sounds perfect to go with a mana stacking defense ;p

[twin wolf]

My dps felt weaker when i got into my 1st empowered timeline boss so until my next attempt im just farming gear like the eye of reen or wtv

[harsh abyss]

Its not the best combo because you have to be a sorcerer to scale meteor and a spellblade to scale shatter strike

You'd likely be better off procing frost claw

[scenic sail]

Glacier + meteor is a great build to use damage dealt to mana before health, I have 70% ddtmbh on my mage and it's the #1 reason why I can survive comfortably at 2k corruption, and so far I'm the only mage that I've seen with any skillset or gear set that's capable of surviving at such high corruption... but the HoS belt is very tricky to use effectively. I get messaged quite often by people who struggle with it because of things like spark charges or having too high crit chance and not enough cast speed, mana or mana regen.

[next frost]

the hope was to be able to use it with the new mana guide ring amulet
but it doesnt look too promising atm
other "normal" versions have more future than this

[scenic sail]

Oh I haven't seen the ring, where is that?

[scenic sail]

Oh that's an amulet, yes I have seen that, I think that's totally viable to try as a meteor mage, 100% worth trying.

[next frost]

that's why you see people talking about focus in the past week

oh shit, you're right

[scenic sail]

Yes, me as well

[next frost]

was sure it was a ring

[nimble shoal]

It does look ringy

[harsh abyss]

I wouldve put it on boots, because movement

[unreal blade]

he's talking about harbinger bosses, not the belt :p

[nocturne temple]

so was there a conclusion to lightning meteor? focus(dr / mana regen spec) to proc LBs and spark charges /novas to proc lightning meteors. mana stack and ddtm

[unreal blade]

a big unknown is how the mana regen affix on mana guide functions. if it cuts the default 100% mana regen while channeling to 50%, or cuts all mana generated from focus, is a dramatic and build changing difference we just have to wait and find out.

[nocturne temple]

oh right

ok

and the set items

2 big IFs

[harsh abyss]

Yeah

[nocturne temple]

whelp hope it works out

im a hoe for lightning builds

and gathering storm disappointed me big time 1.0

[spare pendant]

have you not tried tornado?

[unreal blade]

do you have a planner you've been working on for it? there's a lot of issues we've been trying to deal with on sorc and mana stacking.

[nocturne temple]

was trying to recreate WoW enchancement shaman procing bolts from tempest strike

[spare pendant]

yeah

I tried that too

[nocturne temple]

tornado version looked like it worked well

[spare pendant]

it was ok

it was just sad that tempest strike itself is kinda meh

I also did an EQ version and that was significantly more successful

[nocturne temple]

yea hope we see some changes to tempest strike and maybe even the melee portion of gathering storm. melee in general tbh

[harsh abyss]

You might like unending storm werebear. Just rampage around proccing 6+ lightning bolts per second

[nocturne temple]

dopamine for me is making build with new skills / items and seeing it work. i aint good at it lol but mana guide is giving me hope

ill checkout werebear though

[harsh abyss]

Fair, build making is one of my favorite things as well.

[next frost]

rampage is so clunky to use, i wouldnt advise that to anyone

[harsh abyss]

If they can fix the stutter and getting stuck itll be great. But yeah, its rough right now.

Those could also make mana guide feel like crap, thinking about it. Fingers crossed that they're working on it for 1.2

[next frost]

there is a big difference between the 2

rampage goes forward without stopping or changing trajectory

rune guide goes towards your mouse cursor

kinda like warpath

[harsh abyss]

Maybe it might pick your cursor location when you start channeling and you have to channel again for a new target.

"Current target location" is different wording than warpath I think

[next frost]

it also says "while channeling", not "when you start to channel"
so i have hope you can adjust your direction without stopping the channel or pressing its keybind again

[harsh abyss]

I hope so too, heh. But the wording is important.

[next frost]

tbh, it'd be a really bad design if it wasnt this way

and i still dont understand how EHG let rampage in this state for so long, without either fixing it or reworking it, if they couldnt fix it

it's such a bad look for the game

[harsh abyss]

Man if rampage worked like warpath, it'd be GOAT

[next frost]

i'd put my meteor werebear back on track instantly

[nimble shoal]

It's apparently largely a level design issue. They've tweaked a lot of levels and it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, I'd absolutely run it

[next frost]

i tested it again yesterday, and it's still absolutely a terrible experience

and i went somewhere in the campaign, not a random monolith

[nimble shoal]

It's not great, for sure. Been a while since I tried. It's miles better than shield rush since you can give it 0 cooldown

[harsh abyss]

Give it some "drift" when you turn, based in your bonus movespeed to make it feel a bit different

Give it a node that makes an explosion when you collide with terrain

[next frost]

well, from my point of view, it was terrible before, it's still terrible
maybe they solved some stuff
but it's still unplayable

[nimble shoal]

It's bad now, it was literally unusable before

[harsh abyss]

I think its related to their network code, because wasnt it fine back before the MP patch?

[next frost]

idk, i made a meteor werebear in 0.9.0, and i cant say that what i saw yesterday was any better
so idk what they really improved in 2 years

[nimble shoal]

No, but that didn't help

[nimble shoal]

Well, there were entire zones and boss arenas that you couldn't activate the skill in, and that wasn't a big issue last I tried it

[scenic sail]

This is what I'm wearing currently, it's a really strong build. I've been the #1 mage on the arena ladder for mage for over 6 months now I think, and the only reason I care about that is because I did that simply to prove that Frostclaw builds are inferior to mine: https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Brx0y0PA

[silk pewter]

Sorcerer, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Mage (20) / Sorcerer (60) / Spellblade (5) / Runemaster (28)

General:

▸ Health: 1,637, Regen: 23.8/s
▸ Mana: 2,028.18, Regen: 27.44/s
▸ Ward Retention: 434%, Regen: 213/s
▸ Attributes: 22 Str / 22 Dex / 102 Int / 36 Att / 25 Vit
▸ Resistances: 83% / 67% / 126% / 72% / 71% / 69% / 69%
▸ EHP: 3,243 / 3,243 / 3,502 / 3,602 / 3,118 / 3,059 / 3,304

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 83%, Threshold: 597
▸ Dodge Chance: 9% (283)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 17% (545)

Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Cold, Lightning / Spell

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Glacier (20)
• Focus (20)
• Meteor (21)
• Static Orb (20)
• Flame Ward (20)

Used unique items:

• Seed of Ekkidrasil
• Wrongwarp
• Scales of Eterra
• Swaddling of the Erased
• Harbinger of Stars
• Foot of the Mountain
• Flames of Midnight
• Red Ring of Atlaria
• The Confluence of Fate
• Stormcarved Testament

[scenic sail]

Frostclaw is more offensive though, so people think it's great

This sorc build is very much open for interpretation, I also recommend using the 2-handed staff Celestial Doom, which is great with T7 cast speed. You can also use Mad Alchemist's ladle, all 3 are good, but ultimately Wrongwarp is just the most powerful and gives movement speed, so that's what I use the most. I really love the 2-handed version but it's just a lot weaker

[unreal umbra]

that doesn't prove anything though, no one pushed frostclaw

[unreal blade]

this is a mana guide build?

[scenic sail]

No, I don't use mana guide or melee at all

[scenic sail]

LOL, no one pushed the most popular mage skill at all? What?!

[unreal blade]

we were talking about mana guide amulet (coming in 1.2) and you said you had theorycrafted on it, so i asked if you had a build planner for what you'd worked on.

[unreal umbra]

no one plays arena in general. no one try hard pushed frostclaw like we did

[rapid hinge]

Being #1 in the ladder nobody play

1k waves less than the #1 guy in the last ladder

[scenic sail]

Yes, I will try that amulet with this exact build. I use Focus all the time.

[rapid hinge]

In the same patch

[scenic sail]

Yea, because of a fixed issue dude

[rapid hinge]

What an accomplishment

:kappa

[scenic sail]

Go ahead and try and best mine, feel free

Its been there for months and I haven't even played mage

[harsh abyss]

Also, we'll have to see what sort of buffs/nerfs happen to the mage trees. Could be that FC gets the nerf bat

[unreal blade]

hm i was looking more for something focused on focus. looks like the primary part of the build is glacier.

[scenic sail]

Correct, Focus is not a central part of any build right now, but this amulet could change that, and I'll take the shell that you see here and see how much I like this amulet using this skillset.

[harsh abyss]

I decided to compare wording to see how likely is that Mana Guide will let us target while channeling

Rampage
Charge towards a target location dealing damage and knocking back enemies in your path.

Warpath
Spin towards the mouse while you hold down the ability key, striking nearby enemies as you move.

Mana Guide
While Channeling Focus you move towards your current target location at 70% of your normal movement speed

Not super helpful, they all use very different wording 😝

[unreal blade]

i know nothing is currently based on focus. we're speculating about builds based on focus though.

[harsh abyss]

I mean, I think mana stacking focus + static orb is going to be the main strong combo. Use focus + LB to clear most things and then drop charged ground with static orb when you need to.

[unreal blade]

if it doesn't work like warpath it's dead imo

[unreal blade]

that was my original idea until the overcharge didn't work for lightning waves

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, having to restart focus every couple seconds is gonna feel like crap.

[unreal blade]

we can compare to ghostflame too

[scenic sail]

I just took a look, out of the top 20 mages, the #3 mage is using frostclaw, as is the #5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 17 and 18 are all using FrostClaw, and they're no where near my record. So yes, people have certainly tried to push Frostclaw

[unreal blade]

ghostflame and mana guide are basically identical wording

so it should be fine

[harsh abyss]

Yeah pretty close

Also I think I know why werebear is so much more janky. It REQUIRES you to be moving whereas other ones you can hover over yourself and not move

[scenic sail]

If you use Focus with a short cooldown like I do, restarting Focus is no big deal.

[harsh abyss]

The cooldown isn't really the problem, more of the "Feels bad" because of the 1s delay before you start pulsing damage.

[unreal blade]

if it worked like that, it would be like shield rush but much slower and that would be awful

point to point movement, correcting multiple times around a large bend on a map

[next frost]

might be 0.33s for LB, since it casts it 3 times per second

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, that might feel better but also one of those "have to wait and see" things

[scenic sail]

Well if you're moving and casting spells while Focusing things will feel much different. We have to wait to use the new amulet to see how good it is. Like I said before, I doubt it'll overtake The Confluence of Fate as the best amulet for me atleast, the add +45 flat spell damage is just too good, but who knows what will happen in v1.2, other changes could be coming

[unreal blade]

static orb of course would be great damage in that setup, i just don't see how you do damage between it. focus requires almost full investment to do damage, so you can't pick up most of the defensive stuff. (speaking to Zerax)

[next frost]

and that's a good thing
no one wants a new amulet that is BiS in every build

[harsh abyss]

If you're scaling lightning spells, you can get a decent amount of +levels to it and can pick up some defenses. Even just a few points in the chill node or whatever should be enough to make you tanky AF

Plus you'll have huge armor from Iron Stance

[unreal blade]

it's not as much as it seems since you aren't very invested in it

the setup i had was like 4500 armor

[next frost]

think he meant picking all 3 25% DR nodes

[scenic sail]

Focus' "Less damage taken" nodes are extremely powerful and certainly something I'll be speccing 5/5 points in with this amulet. Having 50% damage reduction would be crazy

[next frost]

and going giga DR route

[scenic sail]

Oh wow, I didn't even notice there's a 3rd one, I thought there were only 2 of them, but that changes things even more

[unreal blade]

they are multiplicative, so the numbers will be different.

the best thing about the focus nodes is that they work on dots too

at least until the mob dies and is no longer shocked/ignited/chilled

[harsh abyss]

Even just Chilling Aura's -25% damage is pretty massive. If you get enough +levels to get Shocking aura as well it's -44% damage taken. The 3rd one is almost not worth it, because it's -58% damage taken. 6 more points for 14% reduced damage is a big stretch.

[next frost]

@unreal blade btw, in the message i pasted, what is "sphere" ?

[unreal blade]

tier 1 runemaster

[next frost]

oh, right

though i had missed a new item

[unreal blade]

if you reset your point of view with each step, it is still worth it. it sounds like a small number but isn't actually.

[harsh abyss]

Another thing you can do to improve tankiness is get some dodge. I feel like Telf'un's Mirage is a hugely underrated unique.

[unreal blade]

98% DR to 99% DR is only 1% improved, but it's half damage taken.

[next frost]

going from 56% damage taken to 42% damage taken is reducing damage taken by an extra 33%

[harsh abyss]

Sure, my point is more that the extra investment to get those extra 6 points is going to be rough

if you're grabbing all the damage nodes

[next frost]

for sure

[unreal blade]

yeah i don't think you can get much defense while going for offensive focus

it just requires way too many points

cause you need overcharge too

or your lightning waves do no damage cause you are below max mana

[harsh abyss]

IDK I think you might just be overestimating how much defensive bonus you need. You have other things like "All resists while channeling" on relic that make gearing super easy.

Most of the time you're below max mana, you'll be casting charged ground, other than that you should be topped off

[rapid hinge]

You're lacking damage not defense

😂

[unreal blade]

if you don't have overcharge you will always be below max mana due to lightning blast (unless you gut its damage) and casting flameward or teleport or whatever.

[rapid hinge]

Even before the endurance dâmgage to mana change, mana stacking focus feels like shit to play

Sure it was "strong"

[unreal blade]

and yeah that's not counting mana defense, which you really have to use for a mana stack build. that will keep you below max mana too

[scenic sail]

Well all of this is speculation based on the new amulet

moving while channeling and attacking is a new feature in the game as far as I know

[rapid hinge]

But i dont think anyone enjoyed that

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, it sucked before the amulet, but the amulet might make it feel like Warpath but spell

[scenic sail]

Who has actually played it though? No one right?

[unreal blade]

warpath/ghostflame exist

[rapid hinge]

I doubt this new amulet would change much tbh

[harsh abyss]

I've played with it a bit, but it feels too bad to fully invest in.

[unreal umbra]

CTs would have played it

[rapid hinge]

The lacking thing is damage

And that amuley gives nothing to that

[harsh abyss]

How is it lacking in damage? Even with minimal scaling, the amount of flat damage you can get from it should make it pretty strong.

[scenic sail]

I don't see that as a problem, meteors do plenty of damage and if you can crit while channeling, then you can cast meteors while channeling

[rapid hinge]

Have you tried it?

I did

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, it seemed decent when I did it, I wasn't at massive corruption levels though

Plus, adding 3 LB casts per second might help as well.

[rapid hinge]

It has way too little scaling channel compared to a typical offensive skill

[harsh abyss]

The thing that made me not like it was when things were SLIGHTLY out of range, and the 'warm up' time for the waves starting, and the amulet should solve both those issues.

[rapid hinge]

Not a lot of more

No speed scaling

And yeah range is another problem

[harsh abyss]

Range is totally solved by the amulet, if it works like warpath and lets you retarget your movement.

Also, it would be a great candidate for mad alchemist's ladle since it has such high base damage and doesn't need it from your weapon.

That might also be a reason to be a Runemaster instead of Sorcerer, so you can utilize things like Ball Lightning, Brand of Deception, and Celestial Doom for more More multipliers

[unreal blade]

3LBs per sec with 2 chains and convergence is almost 4 spark charges per sec with enigma equipped (like my runemaster setup)

[rapid hinge]

I could see mana stacking RM with triple cast static orb

Playing with negative mana focus

[harsh abyss]

Yeah

[eager wharf]

I hope the lightning blasts will have bigger targeting range than the ones triggered by static (zap)

[rapid hinge]

But you can do it rn atm, nothing the amulet gives would change that

[harsh abyss]

Except for everything about the amulet that fills in the cracks that don't feel good, heh

[scenic sail]

Dude, movement speed changes everything, what are you smoking?!

[harsh abyss]

Fixes things being out of range, lets you dodge hits, LB clears out little trash bits, etc

[rapid hinge]

I mean if you go for that route, focus is for mana recover only, being able to move doesnt change much

[unreal blade]

that route is for defense primarily

[scenic sail]

I think the people thinking about this have a plan to try everything, including using Focus for a completely different reason

I'm gonna try that amulet with 150% movement speed and see if it's actuall "viable" moving at 100% move speed and channeling the whole time

[harsh abyss]

You could always try Energy Battery + Overcharge to try and make one massive damage burst

Ultimately, I think the 'feel' is going to be the important part.

[unreal blade]

i think you'd have to go with the null stuff for that right?

[harsh abyss]

If it feels good, the damage can be dealt with.

[harsh abyss]

I think this is why Wrongwarp is going to be a popular choice, but I think Ladle is probably going to be stronger damage-wise. I also think there's the possibility that moving too fast will feel bad because of the pulse frequency, but that'll also depend on how the movement works too

[scenic sail]

I had a 3 LP slammed ladle and a 2 LP slammed Wrongwarp and I've tried both quite a bit and ladle isn't "bad", but it just cannot compare to the damage and movement speed of WW. I still think WW should be nerfed, it was buffed significantly when they added evade, which reduced its biggest downside substantially. I feel like wrongwarp should simply remove the ability to evade so that the downside of random teleport locations is actually a real downside. Now it's just a minor annoyance.

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, that makes sense

Also the amount of movespeed/castspeed it gives you by itself is insane

Like, make it give you frenzy/haste so that it doesn't stack with other sources

But I guess my thought is that with Focus, your cast speed doesn't really matter so you're losing a big part of the benefit of WW

I'd love a pair of gloves that is something like "Channeled attacks and spells are unaffected by attack and cast speed" + "Channeled Spells get 1% more damage per 3% cast speed" + "Channeled attacks get 1% more damage per 3% attack speed" or something.

[sour panther]

guys it is possible to find exhalted dex helmets and armor as mage right? cause im losing my sanity here hunting some xd found like 10+ t7 int but no dex still. xd

[scenic sail]

Ah good point, I forgot that cast speed won't be so important when you're channeling

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, as long as you can add dex shards to mage gear, it can drop exalted. Just luck

[scenic sail]

Yes, mage helmets can get T7 dexterity, as well as rogue helmets

[sour panther]

._.

[nimble shoal]

Dex is not class-specific at all

[harsh abyss]

I mean, mage gear cant roll Strength or Attunement, so its a valid question.

[scenic sail]

Yea, dex on a helmet is specific to certain classes, it's not a class specific shard, but it can't be applied to sentinel or beastmaster helmets

[nimble shoal]

No it's not, you can apply it to all class gear

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, it's a very valid question, I just like giving extra info

[scenic sail]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here,~~ but I think you're just wrong~~. Try adding intelligence to a mage helmet that will work, try adding intelligence to a rogue helmet, it's not an option. Are you unaware of this?

[nimble shoal]

That's because intelligence is class locked, but dexterity is not. That's why I felt it was worth pointing out, dexterity is the only attribute other than vitality with no class requirement (vitality has tighter gear slot restrictions than all others instead of a class req).

[harsh abyss]

Huh, I wonder why that is. I was looking into a Cleaver Solution mage build a while back but was sad when I realized I'd have to craft legendaries with another class

[scenic sail]

Oh my bad, I thought it was the same as int but with different classes. So dex is available with all classes, but int is not, weird.

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, feels weird for base stats

[scenic sail]

Yea, that's really confusing too, I have a skill in the rogue skill tree that wants intelligence, but I can't add it to my gear, I really disagree with this concept and I'm not sure where the motivation is for this extra (what I would call unnecessary) level of complication

[harsh abyss]

Yeah also storm crows wanting int

Its just one branch of one skill but like... why? Also anyone who does a Last Steps/Exsang build would want int.

[scenic sail]

Yes, it's mostly for the ward retention with is what I want, though I'm not a low life build. I'm just saying that if we can't add intelligence to a rogue's gear, then intelligence shouldn't be included at all in the rogue skill tree, because theoretically we're not being allowed to use it as a stat. It just feels unintuitive to have some stats restricted for certain class gear.

[harsh abyss]

Agreed. It may just be a holdover from an earlier design that just no one has noticed/cared enough to fix it.

Easy enough to forget about since 95% of builds dont care.

[nimble shoal]

My theory is that it's related to or based on base attribute scaling for skills, all classes have at least one dex-scaling skill, oddly enough

And as for it being around still, it's probably thematic or something. I feel like it's one of those things they may change down the road for the reasons you guys mention, but I guess we'll see

[scenic sail]

I would love to be able to use Damage dealt to mana before health on my rogue, just to try it out, but unfortunately that affix is also mage locked. Atleast with that one I could understand that most players don't want that showing up on their rogue gear, but int seems like it should be just as common as vit + dex.

[harsh abyss]

For things like that, it would make sense if it still didn't naturally spawn on rogue gear, but if you used shards or made legendaries, it would be available to any class.

But, I imagine that's core code with their drop and crafting system, so it might be a significant thing to update

I don't really like that any gear gets class locked from legendarying. Like who cares if you can't make use of +4 focus, maybe the +mana is just fine and otherwise it's a helpful leveling item 🤷‍♀️

[proven haven]

You can kinda do some funky stuff though, like this

that's technically a rogue / sentinel affix, but it doesn't get class locked

[harsh abyss]

Weird

[proper hawk]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but don't forget Runic Fortress for RM either, could be a massive amount of ward

I actually think RM is more appealing than sorc for the mana guide builds

[harsh abyss]

oh yeah, Runic Fortress will be bomb, especially if you can make a good mana stacking Static Shell

That'll be SO much armor with the More armor from Focus + Static Shell

Not to mention another More damage multiplier for Energy Overflow

[unreal blade]

i'll trade int to rogues if mages can get minion damage removed.. since we don't have any.

[unreal blade]

just a little bit of ward 😄 https://imgur.com/vkNajbe

and that's with only like 13k armor

[harsh abyss]

Nice. My main build is also going to be utilizing channeling, but in a totally different way. Not even Focus

Excited to push that node super high

[surreal arrow]

tbf 7k ward is death sentence in unfortunate circumstances/bad mods at 600c already, the potential is undeniable tho

[harsh abyss]

I doubt that's highly optimized, he's just throwing stuff together to test

Also channeling focus is likely going to give you somewhere between 25 and 50% less damage taken, on top of all the armor and other stuff it gives you

[surreal arrow]

problem with ward after rework is you need obscene generation of it or lotsa retention to keep it above ~10k, was the reason I dropped my RM this last time - if I didn't cast for a singular second I'd be left buck naked and eventually go splat

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, also depends on if you're using any other defenses like dodge/block as well

[weary hamlet]

cause they have a built in synergy with low life

[weary hamlet]

it's not about thematics, it's about balance. Giving rogue (and every other class) another defensive layer out of the blue isn't what they want

by that logic mage should get easy access to glancing blow, why not

[weary hamlet]

yeah that sounds like a bug

[proven haven]

I'm pretty sure I asked about that and the answer was not a bug

[jagged plover]

Trying to farm wrongwarp I think I'm going insane...

I've spent too many runes of ascendancy trying to roll for it with no luck.

[unreal blade]

as zerax said, it was just gear i threw together from my stash to test. the minmax'd build runs about 18,000 armor which is 3600 ward after 2 sec channeling. it also has 4 different 25% DRs, 2 10% DRs, and 2 8% DRs. With this much defense, just a few thousand ward would be fine, but this build should run somewhere around 5-8k while cruising around depending how often you restart focus. my spellblade runs 9k ward and has no issues at 1k corruption and is far less tanky.

[nocturne temple]

~https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QJLO42mo made this for the big IF (can use staff conversion as prefix/suffix) lightning metoer mana guide build.

Idea was to drain mana to negative -> teleport and channel focus. Focus procs LBs which proc spark novas for hits -> meteors drop. Only need 50% base spell crit due to meteoer adding 8%

should have like 100 mana regen

while channelling

im also kinda unsure how damage dealt to mana works (usually play primalist), as it doesnt seem to show in EHP calculations

But should be at like 70-80 DR while channeling and 70% damage dealt to mana

[nimble shoal]

I remember Mike saying it is. Seems all the class specific affixes that are restricted to more than one class don't apply any class restrictions when transferred, so it affects attributes like int, too.

[unreal blade]

quick things i saw before looking very deeply. boots could be vanguard for better implicits and i assume the CDR was supposed to be t5 roll.

[nocturne temple]

yea ive been iterating a bunch, gloves / boots i forgot to touch

cdr doesnt effect cd on stardail right?

[nimble shoal]

Right, only affects cds on your skill bar

[nocturne temple]

dang

[unreal blade]

affixes on relic are also weird

[nocturne temple]

all res while channeling + focus res + all res idol caps all resistance

[unreal blade]

but why t1?

[nocturne temple]

mistake

i did alot when i was sleepy last night

more of the idea then the actual prefixes, i play CoF so gonna be hard to min max it anyway

[unreal blade]

several things are t6, some are t7. not sure if you are trying to be more realistic or what

[nocturne temple]

realistic, t7 rare

[unreal blade]

t7 isn't very rare in CoF

you get a bonus to double how frequent they are

and a bonus to turn rares into exalts which feeds the t7 rate

[nocturne temple]

i guess with new crafting mats too should be way easier

cause any t7 drop could be potentially swapped into the t7 mod u want

tbd how rare those are though and if you can spam them via prophecies

updated it a bit

[unreal blade]

where is the 70-80 DR coming from? I see 20% and 25% from focus, 8% from runemaster, max 18% from belt (total of 60.3%). or are you counting armor also?

[nocturne temple]

yea does it also get added in?

i thought it was just multi with your dr

[unreal blade]

yeah depending on what damage type

more effect vs physical

[nocturne temple]

just increased effectiveness for phys right?

yea

prob could get way more armor looking at it, have a ton of flat

but not alot of %

would be more but planner doesnt show increase from focus

[unreal blade]

with armor you're at 78.2% against non-phys

oh i forgot aegis

83.6%

[nocturne temple]

level of focus could add 15% or 20% more

fractured crown easy to roll 2lp?

i didnt know uniques had weird aquistion methods like that one does

[nocturne temple]

also less damage with meteors cast recently but that is conditional

assuming that scales with the extra meteor nodes

[unreal blade]

i included it at maximum

[scenic sail]

2 LP fractured crowns are extremely uncommon

[unreal blade]

looks like my runemaster would be at 91% DR with everything going

[unreal blade]

56 LP level and reduced LP chance via rune of ascendance (the only way to get it) means 1LP is realistic, and the roll ranges are so large you probably throw away half of them anyway

[nocturne temple]

hmm well wondering if i can throw that ddtm somewhere else

[unreal blade]

i have seen a 3LP once, not personally though.

[nocturne temple]

cause +focus would be real good

helm/body

yea thats rough

[nocturne temple]

is that ddtm or ward

[unreal blade]

ward

probably like 5-8k while mapping, possibly more while bossing. just depends how often you stop/restart focus

[nocturne temple]

nice, that'll prob be a more likely scenario of how to use mana guide, i probably just wasted time thinking about this build lol just really hope can convert meteor -> lightning w/o having to use the staff

[proven haven]

Nemesis helped a lot for Frac Crowns specifically

since its balanced LP level around RoA LP rates

[unreal blade]

hm true egg helps quite a bit

2LP is probably possible then but idk about likely doable

[proven haven]

I found frac crown decent for focus build

I am going to go out on a limb and say 2LP is probably realistic

with some of the teasers and hints we've gotten so far

can slam damage taken to mana before life,

[nocturne temple]

nice, hopefully we get some goodies here at 3pm cent

[unreal blade]

you'll be able to get exalts to generate them with easier

[proven haven]

that too

[unreal blade]

with the new runes

[nocturne temple]

does the exalt have to be ddtm with everything else at 5?

or just have ddtm with total of 21 tiers

[nocturne temple]

oh mana too

geez

[proven haven]

I feel like focus might be something you combine with other spells that do continuous damage while you kite and such

also I made a video on frac, you can use seal to get to 21

its actually fairly easy

[nocturne temple]

link?

[proven haven]

https://youtu.be/XvfA_QAF_KY

[unreal blade]

combine prophecies and temp sanctum helm day and feast on fractured crowns

[next frost]

And remember that we are getting a mechanic to reroll uniques, so should be easier to get a good LP crown

[harsh abyss]

I'm not sure the reroll uniques is going to level them up, I have a feeling it's more to just get better rolls on whatever LP it currently has

[unreal blade]

not sure how that's going to work. it requires same LP, so do you end up using 2 junkers to try for 1 with better rolls?

[next frost]

exactly, if you have a bunch of 1 LP ones, you could ensure to have a great rolled one
or if you have 2 poor 2LP, you have another shot at getting a nice 2 LP

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, like you can sacrifice a "failed" 1LP legendary to reroll an unaugmented 1:LP to have better stats

[nocturne temple]

great vid thanks

didnt know about the 4 affix seal chance either

[unreal blade]

is that how it works? i assumed it would need to be unslammed to unslammed, same LP

legendary to legendary, and such

it says matching item, so assumed rarity would need to match

[harsh abyss]

Maybe, yeah. I'm hoping it allows for legendaries that ar the same "potential tier" as the item you're sacrificing, so it'd give us something to do with the things that roll crappily for their LP

Otherwise those are "Dead" items and EHG doesn't like it when things are worthless, so that's what gives me hope that we can sac them to try and make a new item potentially better

It says you can offer unique, legendary, WW, or set item, so even if you have to use your 1LP item to make it legendary before using "failed" legendary rolls to reroll it, it's basically the same outcome.

[unreal blade]

even if legendary can only roll legendries it wouldn't be worthless

[harsh abyss]

Technically it's actually better, because you know whether or not it's worth using your 'dead' legendaries to reroll it or not.

I'm actually super hyped for this mechanic. It makes a whole slew of previously-worthless items more valuable

[proven haven]

It seems like there is something to add or remove LP with a gamble component like what Mike hinted at

Judds comment also implies you can somehow make slams deterministic, at least partially

[harsh abyss]

👀 Big hype

I wonder if it's another charm that allows you to force prefix/suffix or something

[next frost]

@harsh abyss confirmed as expected, set affixes (but limited in what can be an affix from each set item), then that item counts towards set bonuses

no info if lightning meteor can be an affix or too specific

[harsh abyss]

Its gotta be lightning meteor. The set makes no sense otherwise, the lightning meteor is the whole point

[next frost]

ye, but they did say, not all set affixes can become an affix shard
so it's TBD

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, it makes sense

[nocturne temple]

yea but if the shards have levels

what is upgrading per level?

[weary hamlet]

yea that was a reasonable expectation and they in fact brought up the vilatria's set on stream, as obviously you can't really do anything with it without addressing the conversion being on one of the items and not on the set bonus

[harsh abyss]

Unknown.

[nocturne temple]

im thinking there is the set bonus + 1-2 stats from the item which scale per affix level

[next frost]

they didnt mention anything regarding the conversion on stream
the example was putting the vilatria's helm affix on another helm would count towards the set bonus

you could very well want the set bonus even if the lightning meteor isnt an affix, as it'd bring you extra int scaling for lightning builds

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, but it also makes sense to attach that to the staff. Wouldnt surprise me if it was bundled with %increased lightning damage, which increases per shard level and the conversion is just static or something. Since that increased lightning damage is already on the staff as well

[next frost]

I 100% agree it could be an affix
just saying it's currently unknown whether or not that specific one makes it to 1.2

[nimble shoal]

If they don't carry over the most iconic bit of any base set item, I would be shocked

[next frost]

if you get the wrong affix, you could even get +1% shock duration per intelligence 😂

(pun intended)

[nimble shoal]

Maybe I can scale negative int to be shocked for a very short time

All I'm saying is, if the gaspar set affixes don't each have their specific flavor of decimate, we gonna have a problem

[next frost]

they said they barely had time to squeeze that feature in for 1.2, and only managed it thanks to weekends overtime
so i'm guessing all the "easy" affixes are in, and the specific ones are probably case by case
like, anything that worked directly is in, and stuff that introduced bugs or issues might come in 1.3 or later

• i'd rather lower my expectations than theorycraft a build around a specific affix and be disappointed if it's not in

[nimble shoal]

Since all the affixes already work, it should in theory mean just having them on a different item doesn't explode anything, but always easier said than done

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, really depends on the architecture of affixes on the backend. Could be super easy or crazy hard

As a QA person, I just hope their "go/no-go" conversation for the feature included a "how will the players feel if we release in this state?" portion.

Because we all know how players respond to half-baked systems

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, like gaspar's set literally doesn't function without the decimate proc part, but sunforged could be passable if they don't get the "per forged weapon" stats runninig

[next frost]

tbh i'm just happy we get new tools to use, and will take whichever affixes they'll give us

no more full legendary BiS
now we also have set affixes and champion affixes

[harsh abyss]

Between that and the legendary/unique reroll mechanic, that's enough to bring me back to play a ton

[next frost]

dont forget the champion affixes

plus the new idol affixes

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, tons of good shit

[next frost]

potentially lots of new "never seen before" stuff that could help us find interesting synergies

maybe fill the holes in previous elegant ideas that were never quite enough to be actual builds

[harsh abyss]

Yeah

I'm imagining an exalted champion affix that gets a crafted set bonus on it being incredible

Gonna be some nutty combos

[next frost]

yep, and i'm also curious about all these new class-specific idol affixes

they have to be really good at something since class-specific

[harsh abyss]

Idols have needed more affixes for a LONG time

[next frost]

and put some power back on 3-4 spaces idols

[nocturne temple]

rip lightning meteor i think?

[next frost]

that's not what mike is saying

he is saying :
set affixes can have multiple lines of text
at most 1 line of text doesnt scale with affix levels

[nocturne temple]

ohhh

[harsh abyss]

Sounds like he's also saying that they wouldn't have picked the increased lightning damage or increased mana since those affixes already exist elsewhere

[next frost]

and he is confirming an hypothesis i said yesterday, which was that EHG was going to force the set affixes on us, and that it wouldnt be random

[harsh abyss]

yeah, that's no big surprise

[nocturne temple]

that would be kinda annoying rng

[next frost]

which isnt something they are against

and it'd give more options to build your reforged set items

they just choose the "easy" road of forcing the 1 affix you get from each set items

[nimble shoal]

I think it's strictly saying that the affix tiers will scale some stat

[next frost]

ya, i understood the "specific stats from the set items" as, it could combine 2 affixes from it.
not, it will only pick not "in the pool" affixes
but you can always ask Mike to confirm, since it could be interpreted both ways

[harsh abyss]

Eh, as far as I'm concerned, it's confirmation that we'll get what we're hoping for

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, I'm sure they cherry picked them to get the important stats and maybe sometimes for balance reasons they give bummer stats lol

[harsh abyss]

Um Ranged mana strike build? Sorcerer mana strike, stack mana for huge flat damage and free 100% crit chance, get 125% crit multi?

Use Frost Claw procs with Glamdring for all that flat melee damage, as well?

[nimble shoal]

I was thinking more like SD

prolly better options though

[harsh abyss]

I've always wanted to make a mana stacking sorcerer with mana strike work, but the lack of more modifiers in mana strike make it tough. Stacking a ton of crit multi might make it possible

[next frost]

might be a silly question, but if you make mana strike ranged, will it still benefit from the melee critical strike multiplier?

[harsh abyss]

Yeah it still counts as a melee attack

(we know because it benefits from things like melee damage, etc)

[harsh abyss]

If you could manage to get a T7 crit multi on that sword, you'd get some bonkers crits

[proven haven]

The Melee Crit Chance and Melee Crit Multi wouldn't apply to the FC, which kinda nerfs a lot of the appeal

but you could still crit cap with the Relic or Prismatic or Rings, but that feels kinda wasteful

also not amazing attack speed that you want with a proc type skill like mana strike, imo

It seems like Spell Blade is their idea though, considering Firebrand is on the text

but Spellblade gets free crit cap basically

well, I guess this lets you not stack int?

[harsh abyss]

It'd definitely depend on the rolls that you can get on it. If you can get attack speed on it', it'd be plenty good.

[proven haven]

for procs mana strike? I don't know

[harsh abyss]

But that's kinda how it goes with WW items

I just mean AS in general

[proven haven]

1.1 base with no AS on the item is just kinda low, it's hard to get a lot of AS

[harsh abyss]

But yeah, spellblade is obviously the intent, but I was just thinking it'd be super easy to stay at range and get that melee bonus with mana strike

FC mostly seemed like a decent addition because of all that flat damage from Glamdring

Swap it to lightning (or mana strike to cold) to scale them together easily with most of your stat spends

[proven haven]

yea I don't disagree with the FC Glamdring idea but it ends up being something like 1/2 of the speed of normal FC casting, without the bounces which make up over half of the damage

I wanted Mana Strike FC to work but it's really hard to make it scale well

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, the FC would mostly be extra, the main idea is to scale mana strike. Use mana stacking to get a ton of flat damage, with 1000 mana you get 150 flat mana strike damage, and if you keep scaling beyond that it's great.

So between that and stacking crit damage with free max crit from celestial precisions, you don't need to stack crit chance anywhere and the Spellblade tree doesn't give you that much value for low cost melee attacks

[proven haven]

hmm yea maybe, I am not sure where you get the crit chance for FC though

unless you don't care about that bit

[harsh abyss]

Probably just don't care about it, use it as supplemental damage because why not

[obsidian agate]

does the mana per meteor used recently not include procs?

i assume

for potions

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, it doesnt specify "directly cast". That would be lame for an item that procs 😝

[scenic sail]

Yes, you gain mana from potions based on meteors that are auto-cast from HoS. You can drastically increase the number of auto-procced meteors you generate by speccing spark charges or meteor shrapnel + shrapnel distance. If you combine the two you'll have a laughable amount of mana from potion use, but you'll also be running out of mana constantly lol, it's quite funny. Also the spark charges and shrapnel can destroy your CPU + GPU, so I end up playing at a low resolution

[obsidian agate]

you can equip it on non mage right

was gonna use it on a lich build just for supplementary clear, cuz i plan on it having like 1600 mana pool

and stygian coal clear is kind of super ass for most part

xd

[weary hamlet]

yes but I'm not sure what other builds with it are actually good, perhaps bug form cause of high rage regen

[nocturne temple]

are spark charges >>> spark novas for HoS?

[nimble shoal]

Depends on your goals, but they can both proc each other

[nimble shoal]

Bear also has similar capability, but better spell scaling, I think it's the more common pick

[weary hamlet]

can it sustain the mana cost though or do you shift, unload, then run around like a headless chicken while the transformation is on cooldown?

[nimble shoal]

Both of those forms can sustain it most of the time due to rage on crit/hit, but occasionally you might just get a string of proccing meteor on (almost) every hit in a row and it'll kick you out of form

[harsh abyss]

I could see unending storm werebear + lightning meteor being fun

[next frost]

it's not
terrible and clunky gameplay experience
still unplayable

[harsh abyss]

I mean yeah they have to fix rampage for anything werebear to feel good

[next frost]

ya, which is why i dont know why various people kept recommending to play rampage werebear in the last few days
while they know it still feels like shit to play

[harsh abyss]

I'm hopeful they'll fix it, but it won't take too long to test that out

[next frost]

that's insanely hopeful, considering it hasnt been close to getting fixed despite multiples tries, and no specific communication on that
i'm thinking about new players, you read multiple people talking about rampage werebear, you try it because it does sound fun on paper
and then you quit because the build is unplayable, and have a useless druid that cant do what you wanted

[harsh abyss]

I dunno, I don't think it's unplayable. Definitely higher jank than most other builds, but unplayable is an exaggeration. Especially for unending storm

[next frost]

i played it 2 days ago
it was unplayable, clunky, terrible, any other fitting adjective

[harsh abyss]

I never found it that bad.

[nimble shoal]

It's not really that terrible in general, as long as you don't try to use rampage as your single target skill. Not the best experience, but when the map supports it, it feels very good.

[nimble shoal]

I ran this a long while ago and it was really fun. Storm bolt being added kinda nerfed it by making it harder to cap crit, but the set rework might make it really spicy (plus, maps were made less buggy with rampage in the time since).

[harsh abyss]

I dunno, Storm Bolt has pretty easy crit cap if you maintain stacks of Maelstrom

[nimble shoal]

Yeah but prior to it existing, the lightning bolts got capped crit with 0 investment beyond the things you just got naturally in bear spec and druid passives

[harsh abyss]

Fair

[nocturne temple]

wait does the spark nova node even work in LB...

im not seeing any extra numbers with only that spec'd in lb

[harsh abyss]

Not right now, no.

Totally nonfunctional

But its fixed for 1.2

[nocturne temple]

lmao, phew...but lol

i mean...comon

[harsh abyss]

My somewhat educated guess is that it was broken by some refactoring, because it used to work. I'm guessing that the chance is .25, and that used to mean 25%. But somewhere along the line they standardized the way their numbers worked and it turned .25 into .25%, so 4 points is giving it a 1% chance to trigger instead of a 100% chance.

It's also not the most popular node to take so not lots of people were shouting about it being broken, but it's integral to my favorite build

[nocturne temple]

yea it was gonna be key for my theorycraft

hoping the interaction with channel LB + managuide will work as well, just need to get as many hits as possible

[proven haven]

Channeled LB? You mean focus? Or actually channeling LB

[harsh abyss]

I have a channeled LB build that worked pretty well back when Halo Effect functioned. It's hella out of date now, but the concept hasn't changed. I've just been waiting for that bug to get fixed before trying it again and updating the build.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/liaths-endless-lightning---infinite-lightning-blast-runemaster

[silk pewter]

Liath's Endless Lightning - Infinite Lightning Blast Runemaster Build Guide

Game Cycle / Version

Beta / 0.9.2f

Class

Mage / Runemaster

Used skills

• Lightning Blast
• Teleport
• Runic Invocation
• Glyph of Dominion
• Flame Ward

Used unique items

• Prismatic Gaze
• Static Shell
• Frostbite Shackles
• Strands of Souls
• Telf'un's Mirage
• Liath's Signet
• Liath's Signet

Tags

Leveling / Beginner / SSF

Created by zeraxdr · Oct 15, 2023, 11:31 PM

[nocturne temple]

new unique cast LB when u channel focus, what happens when u have channel node on LB clicked...tbd

[proven haven]

almost certainly it wouldn't work

if it did, that would be a bug

[harsh abyss]

It either won't work, or it will just do a single cast, not the channel

You can't channel while you channel 😝

[proven haven]

"while channeling focus you cast lightning blast"

[nocturne temple]

channel ception

dont let ur dreams b dreams

[proven haven]

maybe if it was "while channeling focus you channel LB"

[nocturne temple]

i dont expect it to work but ill test all nodes on lb with the new unique just to see

[proven haven]

Well you could test it with https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/unique/dragoraths_claw

[harsh abyss]

I think there's another interaction that is similar that only casts 1 cast of LB if it's channeled. You could try with Disintegrate to see what happens when it triggers LBs if LB is channeled

[proven haven]

it also triggers a cast of LB

[nocturne temple]

true brb

[nocturne temple]

yea this is exactly what happens

[harsh abyss]

Yeah that's what I thought would happen

So just a waste to go for channeled LB if that's your use case

[signal rose]

Hey guys! Do you have any good leveling videos for a Frostbite Frostclaw build? The more detailed, the better! Thanks a lot!

[harsh abyss]

I'd search Lastepochtools for build guides for it. Lots of those include videos.

Or wait a week or two for patch notes, I'm sure build creators will be popping lots of build videos and guides

[tawdry scarab]

Google hasn't given me any results - but is there a way to find out what the crit cap is for Frost Claw Sorcerer?

[scenic sail]

You can't see your crit chance per skill, but you can get an idea of what it would be if you open your character sheet (c) and equip / unequip a +6% crit chance crystal skull, that will give you an idea of what your FC crit chance would be if you have an additional +6% base crit chance from the skill tree. Also you can test your crits on the dummies outside of the arena, though that also just gives you an idea.

[tawdry scarab]

Ah ok! So I am not totally crazy lol

I was looking all over for the crit chance hah!

[proven haven]

I have a spreadsheet for that iirc

[tawdry scarab]

boom! You are right I did not see that

Man this guide just keeps on giving haha - really appreciate your work

[minor wasp]

Clotho's Needle makes me excited

Firebrand Spellblade first toon confirmed

[harsh abyss]

I'm actually really interested in Gordian Prism. Guaranteeing a specific invocation is excellent

[plain garnet]

Does Mana Strike still count as a melee attack if you take Teleporting Strikes, for the purposes of items that say "when you directly use a melee attack"?

[scenic sail]

If you mouse over the skill you'll see "scaling tags" it should say, melee in there if it is

[plain garnet]

Yeah looks like it doesn't change the tag, still melee. Thanks

[nocturne temple]

so the armour mitagation displayed on the planner, is that number the non-physical reduction or physical

[harsh abyss]

Physical, capped at 85%, and then non-physical at 70% effectiveness, the tooltip tells you that

I believe non-phys is also capped and you just need more armor to reach that cap? But I'm not totally sure about that part

[nocturne temple]

on the planner it just mentions the 85 cap

but using the https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/armor would show u about how much it takes

[harsh abyss]

It might be alt-text in-game that tells you the non-phys effectiveness

[nocturne temple]

ah

with that graph though, seems reallly hard to get anywhere close to 70 non phys

[harsh abyss]

Yeah

That's where things like less ele damage taken or generic less damage are a big boost

Also why Dodge is a very good defense. Getting 30%+ dodge chance is actually a really big survivability boost.

[nimble shoal]

It's impossible, non-phys caps at 70% of 85%, which is 59.5%

[shell sparrow]

even 85% for physical is impossible

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, unless you get infinite armor, since it's a limit more than a real cap/max

[harsh abyss]

Even going above 75% armor doesn't seem super worth it unless you're stacking armor for other reasons (like Runic Fortress giving you a massive ward chunk)

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, you are getting less EHP gain per armor point beyond about 4.5k (~61%)

it starts to become not worthwhile to invest more in armor the farther you go past that

[harsh abyss]

Sadly I don't think we have any offensive scaling with armor that we could use in tandem with Runic Fortress that we could scale super high to get big offense and defense

[proven haven]

The diminishing return on each extra point of armor per point of DR is a pretty steep curve but also since it's one source each extra point is more valuable than the last, 75->76 DR is twice as impactful as 50->51 DR, so the true curve of value isn't quite as bad

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, for sure, that's why I was thinking 75% might be around the cap of opportunity cost

Where it starts to become hard enough to raise your armor value by enough to get further % that you could spend affixes elsewhere

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, that's why I rate it in terms of EHP rather than DR

Seems like not too bad of investment up to 10k armor (~77% DR), but definitely varies based on what it's competing with

and my "seems X" statement is of course super subjective

[proven haven]

yea it depends on the build and how easy it is to access more armor vs something else

I usually end up around 5k armor with the last few mage builds I've done

I could do more but beyond a point I would need to start using different items vs just priotizing affixes / idols / passives

and it becoems not worth it, another build might have easy access to 9k armor

From pushing arena, doing some HC, some corruption, etc. I think armor is pretty high value on mage

great source of DR

especially if you attribute stack and get a bunch of strength anyway

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, thinking about a channeling build using Runic Fortress and the Greater Blessing of Herkir, that's like... 1000 flat armor with a decent roll on the blessing

And with 150 int channeling focus, you'd get another 1800 and 48% more, so you're looking at 3280ish armor before any gear is even considered, heh

Mana guide gonna be a tanky boi

[harsh abyss]

Been thinking about some channeling related things. Mana guide casts 3 LB per second. LB has a base cast speed of 1.5/sec(ish) according to LEtools. So it's effectively casting with 100% increased cast speed.

Obviously it cant double/quad cast with those nodes, but thats a lot of opportunity cost saved, even just for the LB casts.

[unreal blade]

yeah my planned setup is about 18k while channeling

[harsh abyss]

Channeled LB is 8 casts per sec (7.69 according to LE tools, with .13 cast speed, but I suspect it's actually rounded from .125 cast speed)

Convergence Lightning Blast with 4 additional chains (rounded down from 7) hits 5x per cast. With 100% increased cast speed, you do 3 casts per second, so 15 hits per second.

If Channeled LB specs into Spark Nova, it adds an additional hit to each channeled LB, so 16 hits per second.

Spark Nova scales slightly worse because it won't inherit damage from Shattershock, but better because additional chains from Convergence suffer lower More damage from Frontloaded (+100, +80, +60 +40 +20 +0) vs (+100 from each)

It doesnt account for the double/quad cast chance from Overcharge/Hypercharge.

Thinking about damage amounts from channeled vs convergence LB it should be somewhat similar given that you can save opportunity cost and not invest into cast speed at all. You can spend that on more damage/crit affixes to make up the difference.

[nimble shoal]

Another minor thing worth mentioning is spark nova does have 10 less base damage than LB's normal hits for some reason

And there's also spark charge scaling as an option, not sure how it compares though

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, I was thinking about that, but with the points required for either Convergence or Channeled LB versions, also getting Spark Charge nodes seems challenging.

As far as spark nova having less base damage, 10 is significant but not seriously consequential, I dont think.

Its also worth noting that spark nova adds an AOE component, where Convergence forces single target only.

[proven haven]

Honestly I don't think you are applying anywhere near enough sparks for it to be consistent DPS

Maybe it could be some sort of spell vomit build with just a bunch of stuff going on while you kite

[proven haven]

I feel like there is something weird or not working properly with channeled LB, I did play around with it using some pretty solid gear and it felt a lot weaker than the math would indicate

didn't figure out why

[harsh abyss]

Idk, Channeled LB is my starter plan, so we'll find out. Gonna rebuild my endless lightning build unless something significant changes.

[proven haven]

The nice thing is that mage has a lot of fallback options it seems, plus with mastery respec we can experiment

[harsh abyss]

Yeah, I'm confident that it should work unless something crazy has changed. The Spark Nova + Channeled LB has felt pretty good in the past

[proven haven]

@harsh abyss here's a hot take, 1.2 has a skill MTX for LB, surely they wouldn't want it to be lackluster in the cycle it gets an MTX, right? LB buffs...?!

[proper hawk]

if you can squeeze spark nova in, that also inherits LB's spark charge chance, so that's quite a lot of spark charge chance with enough skill levels

[proven haven]

That's pretty big for AoE potentially, no? Since it will create overlapping explosions on tight groups

[proper hawk]

oh yeah true

[proven haven]

My big concern is the single target though

Even self cast LB hasn't been that high

My standards could be warped by FC though

[nocturne temple]

@proven haven nice new video, one thing i guess that wasnt answered was if the set affix is prefix or suffix?

[proven haven]

I am not sure if that's been answered

[nocturne temple]

unless i missed

[proven haven]

My guess it that it depends on the affix

[proper hawk]

I mean LB spark charges got hit pretty hard with the closed circuit nerf but it should still be pretty good I think, and FC spark charges is definitely getting dumpstered

[nocturne temple]

bummed to see that vilatrias has to be staff though

staff blows

[proper hawk]

probably the only thing keeping vilatrias balanced lol

[nocturne temple]

now i have to wear some goofy ass ring for crit

[proper hawk]

or play a skill with base crit on tree

or use the new uber aberroth relic

theres also still prismatic gaze

[nocturne temple]

yea honestly might try a diff build dpending on balance, then roll the mana guide lightning meteor

[proven haven]

vilatria + enigma would be completely busted yea

like waaay too good

[nocturne temple]

we will probably see the most busted stuff ever in 1.2

until its reeled in

[proper hawk]

i actually dont think it would even be that good, its just added damage on added damage, I feel like other things would be better with enigma

[harsh abyss]

Wont work if you need vilatria to be on a staff

[proven haven]

Yeah I was just thinking that

[proven haven]

Yeah I meant, that's probably why it wouldn't be allowed lmao

[harsh abyss]

Yeah for sure

[proper hawk]

like would vilatria + enigma even be better than mad ladle

[proven haven]

It's diminishing returns for sure, but if you already have 200 int

Ladle is up to 50% ish more damage

[proper hawk]

like vilatria is basically 50% more for enigma if you could combine them

[proven haven]

50% more for the enigma, yes

[proper hawk]

but ladle has cast speed per int

[proven haven]

but FC also applies at 100% effectiveness per hit

up to 25 hits per cast

so the total increase is pretty big

[proper hawk]

oh i guess youd get to leverage damage on the applying spell too

[proven haven]

it basically turns FC into a DPS single target

or anything else really

They both synergize with # of hits

[proper hawk]

idk i feel like vilatrias on a one-hander would be way way more busted on non-enigma builds where you could triple or more your damage

[harsh abyss]

I bet this gets a hard nerf

[proven haven]

It's true, I guess I just thought of the build that's already OP and making it a bit more OP

but its probably not better than just using wrongwarp

I am kinda assuming all these things get nerfed though

So Vilatria could be in a good spot

as generic scaling

[proper hawk]

I think the main thing that will be dumpstered is the sorc passive, I think FC is mostly ok without it

[proven haven]

yeah FC is okay 😉

[proper hawk]

the spark charge passive is just silly

like it should probably be capped to 5 per cast or something, would probably still be strong

[proven haven]

cap is kinda dumb for an on-hit type effect

the problem is more that you can apply like 100 per second

and that they do so much

its not so much an issue for ailments

[harsh abyss]

Vilatria on a top end staff with Glamdring would actually probably be insane for FC. So much flat damage

[proven haven]

damnit this was one of my ideas

:/

[proper hawk]

lol ive been thinking about vilatria FC too

I wasn't thinking about glamdring tho

[proven haven]

yea... well beans are spilled

Glamdring + T7 melee damage

[harsh abyss]

You'll have to let us know how bonkers it is. I cant stand FC

[proper hawk]

I think I'd skip melee damage affixes tbh, you already have so much flat from implicit+ int

[proven haven]

You could be right but you don't get that much value from % since you stack int

cast speed probably

crit maybe

[proper hawk]

yeah I would say cast speed probably

[harsh abyss]

Cast speed for sure

[proven haven]

you probably would want a -mana base which doesn't have that much flat

flat melee might still be worth

[harsh abyss]

But also, idol crafting might change everything

[proven haven]

true

you lose crit % from helm slot

wait

if FC is the damage source

you can just get it from the tree

[proper hawk]

yeah thats mainly why i was looking at FC vilatrias

easy crit

i forgot glamdring existed LOL

[proven haven]

so this is kind of a lot of affixes

err. skill levels

it kinda feels like we go back to T7 FC level relic

at least havoc makes it easier

kinda sadge though

[proper hawk]

hopefully the set helmet affix gives +1 all lightning?

actually i think its probably shock chance per int + int

[harsh abyss]

That would be awesome, but I kinda doubt it

[proven haven]

I am skeptical it would be int on an int stacker base that probably already has a vanilla int affix

but I guess maybe, that's already what happens for legendaries

maybe they do choose "the good affixes"

[proper hawk]

could also be shock chance per int + lightning pen but that feels kinda wrong aesthetically

[proven haven]

well if its bad you will probably leave it as T5 and leave int as T7

if its good you probably T7 the set affix

[harsh abyss]

Best case is: +1 levels to lightning skills and %lightning pen

[proven haven]

I think int might beat a +1

maybe pen too I forget the math there

int is giga strong for int stackers

although depending on build +1 damage per 1 is kinda not super insane

[proper hawk]

now that im speccing it out, points dont actually look that tight to me

[proven haven]

still % ward ret, % damage, % spell crit, etc

really?

[proper hawk]

i mean i think it only needs to be level 21 unless im missing something

you can get crack in the ice+volley of glass +lightning convert +all the points in base crit and glamdring at level 21, 20 if you sac a point in glamdring

[proven haven]

You probably want Malice for DPS

[proper hawk]

frozen malice? thats only one more point

[proven haven]

yea

[proper hawk]

im not picking up ele nova procs though

[proven haven]

nope same

[proper hawk]

so like level 22

[proven haven]

too bad no reowyns veil

[proper hawk]

and to be perfectly honest I was thinking not even picking up on through snow and going 0 mana cost, but idk if the damage will be there for that

saves the investment in mana though

[proven haven]

it's such a big loss

[harsh abyss]

My guess is the On Through The Snow branch is what gets hit by nerfs

[proven haven]

if spark charge is nerfed / the node, FC isn't "that" crazy

[harsh abyss]

Going from 5 to 25 hits is what makes the skill insa e

[proven haven]

still strong

this is very mana hungry though

[harsh abyss]

Hard to balance the rest of the tree with 2 5x multipliers

[proper hawk]

isnt it only 20 hits? or am i missing something

[proven haven]

25

Ever onward applies on both the original proj and the back cast of crack in the ice

[proper hawk]

oh lmao what i didnt realize

[proven haven]

https://youtu.be/DTdDRAZfGAY

[proper hawk]

thanks

also, isnt it kinda hard for the ever onward casts to hit your main target?

[proven haven]

not with the malice tech

[proper hawk]

i should just shut up and watch the video lmao

[proven haven]

for big boss hitbox its very easy

[proper hawk]

oh wow i wish i had known this back when I did my ignite frostclaw with RM launch lol

i was sad when they nerfed the nova proc getting the cd nova area boost lol

[proven haven]

it was honestly not much of a change

I tested post nerf

[proper hawk]

lol i just never bothered to revisit the build, good to know

maybe ill revisit it, I made a kickass 4LP firestarters torch for that build

[proven haven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_EPutPcHrs can see new AoE at the start

looks the same

[harsh abyss]

Was doing a bit of testing with Grand Prism Nova earlier, and with zero increases to area or anything it hits basically the whole screen. Kinda interested to see what I can do with Gordian Prism

[weary hamlet]

But LB already has one mode that is good, who cares if the other 5 or 6 ways to build it all suck

ehg logic

they kept doing this for literal years, I won't hold my breath for them to start balancing each skill's sub branches now

[weary hamlet]

the whole class is warped by FC, but I've been beating this dead horse since 0.9 and clearly the developers don't find anything wrong with that

[weary hamlet]

the only viable solution is to completely remove Arcane Current, they didn't think when implementing that node even for half a second. Alas, the developers don't seem to agree

[weary hamlet]

I mean eh, what does lightning have going for it? Shock and the node for 20% more per point, up from 10% more per point that you'd take if you were on fire? Adjust that non-fire node and it's not a huge deal