🔱┃sentinel

[turbid dome]

Stop that

Lagon is gonna throw a tantrum and flood another city

[scenic gyro]

he cant reach me with his tiny claws

[turbid dome]

[spring pollen]

Any simple way for sentinel to get frenzy? I’m used to primalist where it is so easy to get lol

[waxen nymph]

Rn now no

We know VR will give easy access

You could use Sword Catcher

[turbid dome]

lunge has a node (but lunge has to kill something)

[gusty abyss]

Abby amulet and experimental affix on boots are the 2 most reliable

Assuming you use VC as traversal that is

[eager carbon]

If you are playing paladin, theres a node in judgement that gives frenzy on hit

[spring pollen]

Awesome thanks all I’ll keep all of those in mind

[cerulean sorrel]

Sentinel is fine for HC

Something like a Mage is better though because Ward is totally busted perfectly balanced, as all things should be

Well, Int stacking more so than Ward, but Ward as well

[turbid dome]

that was more my point

[cerulean sorrel]

Things should hopefully be a bit closer next patch

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[turbid dome]

🙏

if forgotten's knight shield is unchanged vk will be so much tankier

[spring pollen]

For the less void on block?

[junior wren]

then stack int on sentinel and be happy

[robust lake]

Cleaver Solution gang

200 stats for Red ring? Jokes on you I have 400

[turbid dome]

yeah

cause the new vk node converts half of incoming elemental damage to void

so the 50% less void dmg on block is also applying to half of incoming ele damage

[alpine canopy]

Only change it got is higher block chance

[winter copper]

only rebuke gamers

[alpine canopy]

unless the version we saw wasn't final, but I figure it probably was

[winter copper]

😏

[turbid dome]

woo shield vk

[quiet hearth]

You could already shield vk, by forcing yourself to use one of the worst shields in the game for memes sake

[winged pulsar]

Hear me out. I’m gonna try a sentinel build with no gear and no skills.

[turbid dome]

[broken nymph]

U mean the shield bash unique Shields axes?

[polar spire]

I mean, ive done rive only with 0 other skills, and no talents invested, even in base, all the way up to lvl 80, so you should be fine

Rives just that busted

Even just auto's should be fine

Long as you get good drops

I had the block chance void 2h drop on that rive playthrough which was solid

Though i did play it ssf, if that sword hadnt had dropped, the playthrough may have gone much differently lol

[alpine canopy]

Not sure you can get super far as a passivist

[vernal frigate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiXGPAlL3HQ

zero to hero vid by dread on erasing strike

[spring pollen]

Any easy way to stack dex other than just some chonky gear affixes?

[scenic gyro]

some uniques have a seizable amount of attributes and you can slap another t7 attribute on top

no other way than that rly if you dont count passives

[spring pollen]

Ok cool thanks. On the passives im only seeing iron reflexes for dex, so ill aim for that. Which uniques would you say are worth looking into?

[scenic gyro]

there are 3 boots with 12 dex/attributes also boneclamor headpiece

[spring pollen]

Ok great ill take a look!

[junior wren]

red rings

[waxen nymph]

All Attribute on your Spear

[junior wren]

also the Dodge -> Armor conversion on Iron Reflexes is bugged, so don't expect any extra armor. Hopefully 1.2 fixes it 😄

[waxen nymph]

Why take Armor when you could have Endurance Threshold

And cover your Hp bar with Endurance

[gusty abyss]

Its not bugged, you just dont have alot of dodge stats to make the armour quantity big enough

you dont convert 200 dodge rating to armor that then gets increased by armor%

[junior wren]

feel free to search here on discord for reports from players 👍

[scenic gyro]

you would only do that if you dont reach 60% armor mitigation right? or is there some hidden tech

[waxen nymph]

You get to 60% Endurance
Take Close Call for Shield and Foot of the Mountain for boots
Block a few times, gg your whole health is covered by your 60% Endurance

[junior wren]

many of us run shieldless and boots with 40%+ movespeed, so for us speedy boi danger enjoyers it makes sense

[scenic gyro]

i think i remember someone doing the math on 1.0 that hp just gives more ehp than threshold, did that change

[waxen nymph]

No

[junior wren]

maybe if you already have a DR% source

iirc the higher your first layer of DR% is, the less value your other layers have

[uneven gorge]

Add on wall of nothing and you can get over 10k ward decay threshhold in certain circumstances. Though it's not at all useful

[alpine canopy]

Layers are independent. The only reason other layers would lose value is if you already have so much EHP you don't need any more

[waxen nymph]

1 hp gives 1 hp +0.2 End Threshold
So it's always more EHP than 1 End Threshold, no?

[uneven gorge]

With 20% endurance: 1 hp/0.2 endthresh gives 1.24 effective hp. 1 endthresh give 1.2 effective hp

With 60% endurance: 1 hp/0.2 endthresh gives 1.32 effective hp/ 1 endthresh gives 1.6 effective hp

Endurance threshold better at 60% endurance 👍

(I'm an idiot though, so I might be wrong)

[gusty abyss]

And now health % enters the chat

[scenic gyro]

well i just randomly added threshold and flat health to my char in build planner and ehp was higher with hp

and it was flat, not %

all dr's considered

with 60% end

🤷‍♂️

[alpine canopy]

This is not right

[gusty abyss]

Point is, 1 health with default 20% as endurance treshold is 1 and 0.2. But with 100% increased health, that becomes 2 and 0.4

[spring pollen]

Hey Vlad are you going spear and shield for phys javelin start? Or just spear? Im starting to try come up with a rough plan and looking into shields that might be good

[gusty abyss]

Also, endurance DR is not a direct multiplier to endurance treshold.

[uneven gorge]

I figured

[gusty abyss]

60% endurance means that a hit that would kill you only does 40%, you can take 2.5 of those hits. giving you 250% ehp, or 150% more.

so 1 endurance treshold at 60% endurance is worth 1.5HP

[waxen nymph]

Most likely Spear only first
If I need tankiness I might add a shield

[junior wren]

yes 1:1 it does, but the boots can give you a lot of threshold, let's say 2000-3000? Whereas you won't be getting extra 3k hp out of nowhere

[alpine canopy]

At 20% end:
1 hp is 1.05 ehp
1 et is 0.25 ehp

At 60% end:
1 hp is 1.3 ehp
1 et is 1.5 ehp

And hp scales with both increased health and % of health as threshold

The point where hp passes et is pretty low, you don't need a lot of % health to reach it (16%)

[winged pulsar]

You don’t need to know math. Just don’t get hit.

[uneven gorge]

Testing it out in letools rn. At 60% endurance, endurance threshold gives more effective hp, but if you have % increased health, flat health gives more effective hp. Like 30% increased health and it's outcompeting. Though yeah, it's easy to get loads more endthr with the boots

[uneven gorge]

Simply don't stand where the enemies are attacking 🫡

[junior wren]

I recommend to not use teloots for math checking

[alpine canopy]

Granted, the above doesn't take into account that et comes in higher values in the same affix. I'm too lazy to do that right now, but it doesn't make et come ahead generally

[uneven gorge]

Pls don't say that, if letools is wrong I'll cry

[scenic gyro]

"this meeting could have been a mail" in a nutshell kek

[gusty abyss]

This should work: https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/ehp

[alpine canopy]

LE Tools is right for the things/stats it accounts for. You just have to be aware of what it doesn't do.

[junior wren]

yup, use the tunklab calculators, letools has various errors and "forgets" to account for certain effects

[spring pollen]

I guess we still dont know how far into FG tree before we can unlock it

[waxen nymph]

I think it was shown
I want to say 35

[spring pollen]

Oh must have missed that

[waxen nymph]

It's definitely FG exclusive

[spring pollen]

Yeah for sure. I saw that and the downsides but must have missed the points level.

[waxen nymph]

I believe you can also use Titan Heart with it

[spring pollen]

Oh nice. Yeah that was another thing i wanted to check is whether the passives/gear that need 2H weapon will work when holding spear etc in 1 hand

[halcyon yoke]

technically, i dont think it counts as holding a spear in one hand, but as being able to use a shield on top of a 2h

[spring pollen]

Very cool. I might have to rethink some things then. Makes some passives more intersting for sure

[waxen nymph]

Our understanding is that 2h passives will work

[spring pollen]

Is stun worth considering at all? I need to look up how it even works

[eager carbon]

used to be, not anymore

[spring pollen]

dang

[eager carbon]

there are some stun related things along some skills, but never tested it beyond 0.8 patch

[quiet hearth]

why did I see a ping notification but no ping here? what is this tomfoolery?

[turbid dome]

Probably a spam bot that got nuked

[scenic gyro]

i asked that mike a while ago, all shield/2h passives apply

[spring pollen]

Awesome ty

Did they mention any changes to forgestrike? Or it will be the same pretty much?

[spring pollen]

\

[clever hazel]

we only know forge strike is getting a damage buff, no details

[spring pollen]

Ok cool tyvm

[harsh nova]

@turbid dome , what's the wizard looking like these days

[turbid dome]

For next patch? Gonna try a time rot build with the forgotten knight set to make use of the new incoming ele dmg is now void passive

[scenic gyro]

high apm builds are kinda fun but i cant wait to afk numlock warpath again lol, im getin old

shit is stressful if you farm more than an hour

[spring pollen]

thats tasty

[real patrol]

That doesn’t seem very good tbh

[scenic gyro]

depends on the rest of the tree

might be a nice oh shit button if you run out of pots during boss fights

[inland quarry]

it honestly feels like healing hands v2. healing hands already does spell dmg, and it already heals you while doing it.

[alpine canopy]

SoH doesn't seem very similar to HH to me

[scenic gyro]

i dont think its a big deal, more like a nice to have
i doubt its gonna be a major focus for soh

but if i got free points that dont increase my dmg then why not take the free heal

[lyric lintel]

Who knows what will be the base frequency and potential with nodes and items. If this will work on autocast and we can have it everysecond... It's not gonna be a small amount)

[halcyon yoke]

From a screenshot they gave, it was 6.7s cd with 25 mana cost
Ofc we dont know the gear/tree they had for these numbers

[gusty abyss]

Just 400 healing effectiveness for full heal. Even if you have 5k hp? Should be really easy for paladin to get. It's strong.

[inland quarry]

i hope it still gives buffs passively, what's the point of getting rid of volatile reversal if there is nothing to make up for it?

[scenic gyro]

they specifically said they are accounting for the loss of vr

lets wait with the outrage until patchnotes 😄

[winged pulsar]

I’ve only ever played the current cycles. I logged onto my character in legacy but I didn’t have CoF so none of my gear worked. Do I need to relevel CoF?

[muted cloud]

I kinda wanted to wait for 1.2, but I just wanted to spin and spin, so I logged the old sentinel with 💩 gear, threw the few things I had around and got to exactly 20 000

[muted cloud]

Some people said merging stash tabs should fix that? But idk, never did that myself

[winged pulsar]

I suppose I’ll ask in general.

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, merge your stash

factions are technically in your stash

[winged pulsar]

@gusty abyss imma hit you up before new patch to have gamer talks. I haven’t played in awhile and am coming back in full force.

[austere coral]

If I'm dual wielding, which weapon's stats apply to my Forged Weapons?

[waxen nymph]

All of them, except weird uniques stats, but that's true for all setup

[austere coral]

When I first played Diablo 2, first game of this genre I played, I was maining summons. Then I got into speedruns and ditched minions, but now I'm coming back to minions, pretty crazy I'd say. I guess that's thanks to the fact that genre evolved and now we have more hybrid "me and the gang" type of builds

[waxen nymph]

Beast Master is very like that too

[unreal quartz]

minions still have scaling issues (especially survivability) when you get to high corruption, they are also kinda slow compared to other builds but I still love the playstyle so much

[latent ferry]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message @west obsidian ask devs isn't for conversations so I've moved over here 😄

staves were never designed to be used with shields

Nor were two-handed swords or axes or maces or spears, it's not a balance concern.

He is the "Forge Guard" - master of all weapons after all.

That's your subjective perception - Forge Guard is more specific than that, IMO. You can play a spell-casting forge guard, but none of its unique skills are spells and the passive tree doesn't complement it, for example.

Having these "restrictions" creates more interesting options than it removes, from my perspective

[west obsidian]

Thanks for moving this! I was more on the side of why not let things be open to experimentation? FG can already wear a wand + shield even if it has no relevance to the passive tree. Not suggesting its good, but he can. So why not allow him to hold onto a staff as well?

[scenic gyro]

i think staff+shield is more appropriate for smth like shaman or druid maybe

[scenic gyro]

there is surely smth balance wise that would break it if they allowed staves

they didnt just outline staves for the sake of it

[harsh nova]

allowing all classes to use all weapons makes it significantly harder for them to target balance changes

[latent ferry]

I don't think that's it, staves simply aren't within what they deemed "forge-guard-y" in this case

i.e. why can sentinel only offhand-wield a sword? Because they decided it that way, that's all there's to it

[harsh nova]

they've never portayed this game as a "play anything you want"

they have specific builds in mind from the ground up

[latent ferry]

"do anything on any class" quickly turns into "do the same thing on every class"

I like how LE does it more

[harsh nova]

yeah poe2 having this exact problem, literally every class playing the same stat stacker build

there are quite literally 3 total builds across all classes

[latent ferry]

read my mind lolol

[harsh nova]

so forcing specific builds on LE is a much better target than allowing people to use everything with each class

if you wanna be a wizard, go play wizard

if a sentinel can cast frostclaw why would we ever use rive

ect

[tribal basin]

Also every base class has its unique character background story .

[west obsidian]

I am fine that staves are restricted to be fair. But then have consistency across the mastery in general. Forge Guard should be restricted from wearing wands/staves as part of the mastery.

Doesn't make sense that FG can wear something as a base, then not be allowed to with the shield other than "we said so".

[spring pollen]

For comparison, they are restricted in what they can use with dual wield. So they have done it before.

[west obsidian]

True, but you can still wear the other as the main hand. Wand + sword is still a popular combo for smite builds.

[tribal basin]

It urks me more that what feels like 60% of axes are acolyte stuff

[junior wren]

every class is allowed to wear 2h weapons as a base, then not allowed to with the shield, but I don't see you calling for disallowing every class to wear 2h weapons

[gusty abyss]

I feel this is more because of a lack of other viable offhands. With all the catalysts being int focussed and no shield really offering anything of spell value.

[tribal basin]

There is like 1 shield , Static Shell I believe

[junior wren]

yeah, the lack of useful uniques is a problem

[west obsidian]

I mean, can anyone come up with a use-case as to why staves were singled out then? If they suck for FG, they should be allowed to suck

Rogue can wield staves, doesn't mean they should

[tribal basin]

Imagine a spell rogue

[gusty abyss]

Well, weapon master does not have staves, or scepters

[junior wren]

you really should ask the devs that question, they designed it that way

[west obsidian]

There are a few scepters that are melee focus'd like the Aberroth one for Void Cleave. They have melee dmg on them

Same with staves

Well no unique staff in particular has melee focus, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist

[junior wren]

I would for sure play Jasper's Searing Pride with a shield to get easy 100% block and a stacking fire damage buff

so in my eyes that's a reason to not allow staff + shield

[gusty abyss]

Outside of sceptre base, no melee damage here

[west obsidian]

Implicit has melee dmg, just like the several staff bases

Not all of them have that, but some do

[gusty abyss]

Yes, that is just base sceptre

[junior wren]

I'm not sure what are we talking about now, but staves don't have melee attack speed as a possible affix

so they are generally not the best choice for melee

[west obsidian]

Generic physical / elemental damage works for both spells + attacks

[junior wren]

those two are incomparable things. elemental damage is % increase, whereas attack speed is a multiplier to amount of hits, so basically it's a %more multiplier

[gusty abyss]

Yeah, I hope they get rid of +typed melee damage on sceptre and staves and add more spell/melee hybrid affixes instead.

[west obsidian]

Actually looking at the mods, staves with melee damage on them are allowed to roll flat dmg too. You just never do that cause no one uses staves for melee

[junior wren]

I just gave you an example where they do, jasper's and stacking the melee fire buff 🙂

[alpine canopy]

The reason FG exists is to have a mastery for sentinel that isn't as focused on magic. We had paladin and dark paladin basically, both adding spells as a side theming, so they wanted to avoid that for FG.

Having staff + shield goes against that

or would

[junior wren]

I don't know, the theme is basically "weapon master" right?

why would a weapon master specifically avoid one weapon type

[latent ferry]

"basically" doing a lot of heavy lifting lol

[gusty abyss]

2, sceptre also

[alpine canopy]

The theme is more "blacksmith"

[gusty abyss]

Well, and dagger, wand, bow xD

[junior wren]

I thought we're talking about 2-handed, because we are talking about the new 2h+shield passive. What does scepter have to do with that?

[gusty abyss]

Weapons master passive

FG theme starts right there, first node

[junior wren]

you can equip scepter, dagger and wand on FG

[alpine canopy]

the sentinel was a blacksmith before being drafted, so FG is really like sentinel's good ending

[west obsidian]

Blacksmiths would also be the ones crafting magnificent staves to enchant. No way the mages would get dirty smithing the metals IRL.

[scenic gyro]

i love that 😂 so is paladin a bad guy then

[gusty abyss]

If anything, FG is more "What if he stayed"

[scenic gyro]

this is getting deep

[latent ferry]

FG should get his dreadlocks back when you select the class, he looked fly asf

[junior wren]

Like, if you want them to modify the passive in FG tree to provide a bonus to scepters, daggers and wands, then give them feedback. But it has no bearing on the ability to wield those item types, we can already do that.

[alpine canopy]

Yes, kinda. It's Rahyeh's thing.

[latent ferry]

well worded

[gusty abyss]

No, I am talking Theming, the theme right there does not include staves, or sceptre. So that the theming continues in the 2h node makes sense.

[junior wren]

well then explain warpath

[gusty abyss]

Paladin

[junior wren]

FG does warpath too

[west obsidian]

I get the theming of the Forge Guard. They encourage specific weapons types, but they never explicitly say "you can't do that now"

[gusty abyss]

It does, but the fire theming there is paladin aligned

[junior wren]

FG has fire theming aswell

[alpine canopy]

Warpath is a sentinel skill

it has to support all the classes

[junior wren]

It currently does not support all weapons those classes use.
Like are we really going to argue that Warpath supports using scepters because Paladin exists, while it also does not support using other weapon types that Sentinel uses (spears, wands, daggers) because you just made it up?

[scenic gyro]

since when does a skill require to work with all weapon types

[junior wren]

also, since we're talking theme, we're literally "A former soldier of Rahyeh’s army who left their ranks to pursue a more noble path.", so look at the weapons used by them and tell me they are not included because of theme 😄

[alpine canopy]

This. Skills don't need to have a special node for every single weapon type that is "on theme", but you can guarantee when they are picking weapon types to put nodes for, they pick from the pile of "on theme" weapon types.

[iron basin]

what even is the argument here

[junior wren]

since the time we are "A bulwark of strength and steel whose mastery of weapons ... dominates the battlefield."

and since theming started to matter

[latent ferry]

originally it was about forgemaster's might not including staff+shield as an option, but the goalposts have been moved a bunch of times

[alpine canopy]

People want staff + shield

[latent ferry]

idk if it's people plural

[scenic gyro]

that makes no sense game balance wise, thematically maybe

[iron basin]

My buddy was a little disappointed when he found out you couldn't use a staff, but that was because he wanted it mechanically for minion stuff

he was on board with it thematically

[scenic gyro]

☝️

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, and I think that's about it

[scenic gyro]

aye

[latent ferry]

FG minions borrow directly from your weapons' stats so chances are you'd be better off with an available option anyways

[alpine canopy]

I'm kinda sad that the 2h + shield node seems sus for minions being on FG

[iron basin]

Does the node reduce your minions' damage too?

[latent ferry]

maybe some niche case of magic Bob?

[scenic gyro]

yea its global reduction

[latent ferry]

yup... for some reason...

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, 20% less damage 10% less attack speed

[latent ferry]

and you don't get Haste

[scenic gyro]

but we didnt get all the uniuqes yet, maybe there is a massive 2h hammer for minions/forged weapons or smth

[latent ferry]

(well you get something in return but it's not worth the trade)

[iron basin]

we also don't know all of the changes to forge strike/manifest either

[latent ferry]

sunforged set is a great target for the set crafting stuff that's coming in 1.2

but that's a bit of a wait-and-see

[scenic gyro]

everything is ^^

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, the trade is balanced around getting something spicy for a shield (which doesn't boost FWs and takes significant investment for MA) or just having a 2h that is way more synergistic for your build than any 1h you could get

[scenic gyro]

especially without the passive tree there is rly no point arguing anything balance related

[iron basin]

I'm actually not against the damage penalty for having a 2H+Shield. If they want to pull back on the power from the survivability boost 2H gets from it it makes sense

idk if 20% damage and 10% AS are the right numbers... but who knows

[alpine canopy]

I probably won't take a 28% dps loss on FW just to be able to equip a shield

[junior wren]

I personally don't care about the new passive, I'm very likely not even gonna use it 😄

Basically we started a different discussion about why some weapon types are allowed in passives or skills and some are not.

• the new passive allows 2-handed swords, axes, maces and spears + shield (but not staves)
• the "Weapons Master" passive (first node in FG) has bonuses for using Swords, Axes, Maces and Spears, but not Scepters, Daggers, Staves or Wands
• the Warpath node "Cyclone of War" has bonuses for using Axes, Swords, Maces and Scepters, but not Spears, Daggers, Staves or Wands

So TLDR is that apparently staff is not enough of a "weapon" to warrant support in the "weapon master" passive tree, Scepter is only in Warpath because Paladin exists, but at the same time Spears don't exist in the Warpath universe.
And argument was made that this is because of "theme", but the explanation is lacking.

[scenic gyro]

incoming shield with 300% minion damage 👀

[alpine canopy]

lol then I'd just run 1h + shield tbh

[scenic gyro]

absolutely fair xD

i honestly expect them to smash out a fat 2h unique for fg

wouldnt make much sense otherwise

[iron basin]

Spears are for poking, warpath is for bashing and slashing

that seems obvious to me

[latent ferry]

forgemaster's might exists for funky Unique combinations that weren't possible before, and not far beyond that, IMO

[scenic gyro]

its definitely gonna be interesting

so thats a win in my book, regardless of power lvl

[latent ferry]

like idk, worldsplitter + uhkeiros horns to charge up one big slam with a huge mana cost

[junior wren]

sure, now explain every other attack which doesn't have a stabbing animation.

[alpine canopy]

Spell damage and dex weapons are just not in FG's theming, that's all

[iron basin]

it's only a 28% loss if the stats between 1H and 2H were equal, but they're not

[alpine canopy]

True, but they aren't super far off

[latent ferry]

the sprinkling of dexterity stuff in sentinel's kit hasn't ever been a serious thing as far as I can tell

Sierpin is the only thing I can think of that even reminds you you can go in that direction

[junior wren]

there are no "dex weapons"

[alpine canopy]

It is in FG's kit, but specifically for throwing hammers and spears

[west obsidian]

FG has passives right now for dext stacking. Iron Reflexes + Javelineer

[iron basin]

wat. they're literally double in most cases

[alpine canopy]

Dagger and bow are rogue weapons, if you prefer that wording

[west obsidian]

And yes, most 2H mods + base implicits are about 2x in magnitude vs 1H mods.

[latent ferry]

oh. Well that's neat I suppose. Is this a good time to say I haven't played a sentinel in years?

[junior wren]

yes I do. Swords are also a dex weapon y'know 🙂

[latent ferry]

uhhhhh

[gusty abyss]

But a lot of power comes from talents and other gear pieces as well. That 28% less also affects that, not just your weapons stats.

[alpine canopy]

They are less than double and also have lower base attack speed

[junior wren]

we have a literal katana as a base item

tell me it's a STR weapon 😛

[gusty abyss]

Spellblade has a dex node, can also use sword

[latent ferry]

why does it need to have an attribute identity

[alpine canopy]

Weren't you just arguing that there are no dex weapons?

[latent ferry]

sometimes you'll hold it on a lich just for crit multiplier

[iron basin]

this game doesn't really have attribute weapons

[junior wren]

it doesn't, Father Toast said FG doesn't do "dex weapons".

[junior wren]

You started this discussion, why are you asking me this? 😄

[latent ferry]

Right we've gotten completely off track lmao

[alpine canopy]

That was my shorthand for the weapons that are heavily rogue themed

[junior wren]

yup, and I replied to that too.

[alpine canopy]

so what is the confusion?

[junior wren]

why exactly can't a former army soldier use daggers

[alpine canopy]

They can

[iron basin]

bows and quivers are the only weapons you could really argue are "dex weapons" because they're rogue locked, but even then they don't have an attribute requirement

[latent ferry]

I feel like it's worth clarifying that this entire topic is centered on subjective perceptions of what class identity is and/or should be, so there's no right or wrong answer

[junior wren]

alright. So why does their army training aka. passives not apply when they use daggers? Do they suddenly forget how to move?

[alpine canopy]

Quivers technically aren't rogue locked for some reason

[latent ferry]

unarmed judgment with glancing blow my beloved

[iron basin]

because the passives were designed to encourage specific weapons to be used

[latent ferry]

[iron basin]

how is that so hard to understand

[alpine canopy]

We already covered this, daggers are out of sentinel's theme. There's a reason why sentinels get half dagger drops compared to rogue.

[terse hedge]

dual wield quivers when?

[junior wren]

Yes, that's exactly what is the confusion. Somehow, "weapons master" is the forge guard theme, but at the same time "a specific weapon type" is not the forge guard theme 😄

[alpine canopy]

I think we've gone in a circle here

just because it says "weapons" doesn't specifically mean "all weapon types in the game"

[junior wren]

We switched from practical reasons like "encourage specific weapon usage" to thematical reasons, we didn't circle.
"Weapons master" implies someone with mastery over all kinds of weapons.

[alpine canopy]

I've only ever said it's thematic, idk about what others have said

[junior wren]

well you can scroll up and re-read, but it's not really important

[latent ferry]

I didn't receive that implication from it 🤷

[junior wren]

what does weapon master imply to you then?

[latent ferry]

if I'm really good at using exactly two types of weapon I'm also a weapons master

I just didn't read so much into it because the names of passives are not why you're clicking them 😄

[junior wren]

I'm not reading a passive, it's from the flavor text for Forge Guard

A bulwark of strength and steel whose mastery of weapons, armor, and the animation of molten metal dominates the battlefield.

[latent ferry]

oh so it doesn't say "weapons master" at all

[iron basin]

yeah I was gonna say

that doesn't say weapons master

[junior wren]

mastery of weapons isn't weapons master

okay

[iron basin]

it's not

[latent ferry]

I mean the whole discussion is based on semantics, so semantics matter yes

[junior wren]

What does mastery of weapons mean?

[gusty abyss]

I think if you put weapons master in the context of soldier and army, then sword/axe/mace/spear makes sense?

[latent ferry]

for what it's worth those blurbs on the passive tree are very inconsistent XD
VK:

A fallen knight who has taken part of the void inside themselves and uses it to devastate their foes even at the cost of their own life.
"cost of their own life"? That's an acolyte thing!

[alpine canopy]

It's means you are good at using weapons, it doesn't really imply which weapons

[latent ferry]

Point being, I wouldn't read too much into it

[junior wren]

perfect, thank you.

[latent ferry]

If anything we should be offended that FG's blurb implies it "dominates the battlefield" when in reality it sucks nuts

[junior wren]

So Forge Guard is good at using weapons (plural), which doesn't specifically exclude any weapon type.

-> confusion

[latent ferry]

will be more accurate in 1.2 I guess

[iron basin]

why can a class's theme not be defined by more than just the 1 sentence descriptor it gets?

[terse hedge]

If I said, I have a collection of cups. It doesn't imply I have every cup. It means I have multiple cups.

[alpine canopy]

Why would it need to?

[west obsidian]

Forge Guard "should" be able to specialize into anything with melee damage or throwing damage. That is my opinion.

[iron basin]

like what makes that one sentence more important than the passives it gets providing flavor through their crunch

[junior wren]

I mean when I run around with forged weapons it feels pretty dominating

[alpine canopy]

Even just saying mastery of weapons, armor, etc. could just mean you are really really good with a sword only

[junior wren]

aka. "weapons". I agree.

[junior wren]

because I say so

[alpine canopy]

it doesn't even require you to be good at more than one weapon type

[junior wren]

then it would be a sword master, not a weapons master

[iron basin]

I disagree. I think having a class that prioritizes 2H weapon types is neat mechanically

[alpine canopy]

Er, okay, well I just regurgitated the theme for FG as communicated by the devs

[west obsidian]

This whole conversation started when I asked the question why Staves are not allowed on the 2h + shield node. I am arguing that staves have melee damage --> they should be allowed to be wielded

I would think that the node should say this: can wield any 2H melee weapon and a shield. That way staves that don't have melee as an implicit get excluded as being purely magical

[iron basin]

do those even exist

[junior wren]

it's okay. I see a reoccuring theme. To me LE feels like it's really really good on the surface, but when you actually deep dive in, you find yourself roadblocked by many little roadblocks and detriments that exist because someone arbitrarily decided so. I find it very irritating.

[west obsidian]

Ah you are correct, seems like all staff bases do have melee damage on them

Still stand by the statement that melee damage --> forge guard should be able to use them with a shield

[iron basin]

I think an argument could be made that staves are just magical in general because of the spell damage on them. FG is the blacksmith and that's why they're excluded

like it fits thematically. you can use any of the other 2H types

[junior wren]

scepters..

[iron basin]

sceptres are also not included in FG passives

and the one in specific that we're talking about is the 2H + shield node

[latent ferry]

arbitrary decisions otherwise known as designing the game :p

[west obsidian]

Yeah I am not saying that its good or supported. Just be consistent

[junior wren]

yeah I know. They are included in warpath

[west obsidian]

There isn't a good arguement why if I found a sweet melee damage staff, that I couldn't use it on FG with a shield

[iron basin]

warpath is not a FG skill. it's a sentinel skill

[latent ferry]

I'm a supporter of "limitations breed creativity" and those little roadblocks help you find a direction in making builds. But I understand not feeling that way

[junior wren]

FG also uses warpath

[iron basin]

but it's not a FG skill

[junior wren]

but FG uses it

[iron basin]

so?

[junior wren]

right back at you

[iron basin]

you're missing the point clearly

[west obsidian]

Javelin isn't a FG skill and it directly supported in its passive tree via the dext stacking nodes

[junior wren]

no, you're just parroting what we already discussed earlier

[west obsidian]

And in the defense of staves. No one uses them already. Why make them objectively singled-out when they are already pretty bad vs the 1h wand/scepter + catalyst

[alpine canopy]

All weapons except bows are melee weapons by the game's definition, which I understand is not exactly intuitive

[latent ferry]

it's intuitive if you don't have assumptions drilled into you by playing a certain other ARPG 😛

well, maybe not for wands

[terse hedge]

what's the ideal way to scale the void hammer throw?
Void cleave helps for sure, but just stack DoT damage and void damage?

I don't think Vitality from VK works on it, so go for STR/Dex?

[iron basin]

Forge Strike, Ring of Shields, and Smelter's Wrath are all exclusively Forge Guard skills. Warpath has to work with all 3 specs, so it gets support with everything that each of them uses. Paladins have a heavy casting subtheme, so warpath has a node for sceptre synergy. The Forge Guard synergies are summoning forged weapons from Forge Strike. The void knight synergies are around echoes and abyssal echo casting

[iron basin]

I remember there being an orbiting void hammer build a long time ago, but I can't remember seeing many people play it after 1.0

I haven't tried the void cleave sceptre yet

[terse hedge]

I dont have the scepter, but Void cleave itself has a node that gives flat void throw damage on your next attack

it chunks

[alpine canopy]

Right, it scales with hammer throw's attribute scaling

[winged pulsar]

Sometimes you pee, sometimes you poo. The circle of life.

[tribal basin]

hammur :3 is Str Dex Throwing and Physical in its scaling unless it gets more Tags

if you do Smite or Ailment then you should scale them

[alpine canopy]

The aura is a void DOT, which I'm pretty sure gives hammer throw overall the void tag, idr if it gives it DOT

[tribal basin]

There is a Void Dot besides time Rot ?

[alpine canopy]

There are quite a few

[iron basin]

there's a few

abyssal echoes is another

I think the void beams from various sources are DoT

[junior wren]

We also discussed this.

Warpath has to work with all 3 specs.
I agree.
so it gets support with everything that each of them uses.
No, it doesn't. For example, FG spears and throwing isn't supported.
Paladins have a heavy casting subtheme, so warpath has a node for sceptre synergy.
So logically if the node supports multiple specs, it should also support Void casting for VK casters, but it doesn't.
The Forge Guard synergies are summoning forged weapons from Forge Strike.
You correctly identified 1 build support, but that's not the only support, and also not the only FG spec, and it doesn't mean Warpath cannot support Spears or Staves.

[iron basin]

it has to support the subclasses not every single possible spec that they could have

[terse hedge]

thank you
wasn't sure if STR/Dex would help scale the void DoT portion of the attack

[alpine canopy]

Warpath does support void casters btw

[iron basin]

abyssal echoes

which I did point out

[alpine canopy]

but yeah, base skills are not supposed to support everything that every mastery can do, they should just have some use on each mastery

[latent ferry]

Once again a matter of semantics over what "support" means. It doesn't not support them but there's not much to explicitly tell you to play it that way

[tribal basin]

does Javelin support all 3 subclasses ? Thats another Base sentinel skill

[winged pulsar]

What if instead of warpath we changed it to peacepath?

[junior wren]

This is getting tiresome guys.
I never said Warpath does not support void casters. I said that specific node does not support Void casters.
I also never said a Sentinel must support all possible specs of all three Masteries of that class.

[latent ferry]

Put this person in charge

[alpine canopy]

It doesn't have much for VK, but it can be used on VK to some extent

[terse hedge]

I dont think there is a void Jav? would be cool to see some purple javs

[iron basin]

yes but VK less so

[iron basin]

not directly but it can be used since it's echoable and has a unique that you could theoretically build around

from a harbinger

[spring pollen]

We should all keep in mind that the passive trees are all getting reworked/adjusted heavily this next patch. So a lot of the support/thenatic stuff being discussed might be better very soon

[tribal basin]

Void scatter Jav that all cast Abyssal echoes

[iron basin]

most of this discussion started because of a reworked node

[junior wren]

yep, that's exactly what started the whole discussion.

[terse hedge]

a time rot jav build would be fun

[latent ferry]

now imagine if we did all this in #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs instead

Mike would love us

[spring pollen]

Yeah but we are talking about that node in isolation. We have no idea of all the other adjustments aroubd it to make the rest of the class make sense

[alpine canopy]

Hm, good idea

[winged pulsar]

Void knight new void damage reduction node kinda crazy. Slap on a ravenous void and are one tanky boi

[iron basin]

I still think FG is fine thematically. He's a blacksmith, he makes big weapons, big shields, big armor

[tribal basin]

Void Taken as Phys is already super bulky

[iron basin]

just mechanically kinda sucks right now compared to other things

[tribal basin]

Void Strike becomeing Gates of Babylon

[alpine canopy]

The node makes sense as-is with the FG theme, only thing I was a little disappointed about is how it appears like it might not support minion builds well, but that remains to be seen really

[junior wren]

primarily we wanted staves + shields, highly unlikely another node is gonna fix that 😄

[tribal basin]

Infinite Blade Works ! and Axes , and Hammers and random BS GO !

[junior wren]

but yeah there are some unknowns for my 1.2 builds

[latent ferry]

aww no embeds here either huh

[tribal basin]

[junior wren]

only stickers

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, idk why they haven't re-enabled gifs yet

[winged pulsar]

Anyone have the current meta VK warpath build layin around to link? I’d like to test it verse my pala warpath.

[junior wren]

I wonder why is there no list of builds

[tribal basin]

Yep i have one , one moment

[iron basin]

I don't like playing spin to win so I'm morally obligated to advise against it

[winged pulsar]

As soon as I was able to literally click zero abilities I fell in love with warpath

[tribal basin]

Well its a tad old but should still work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_O7kbgS8MI&t=225s

Hmm a moment please

[waxen nymph]

This is the real question

[iron basin]

just use it on VK and you'll get echoes for purple spears :^)

[tribal basin]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Bjak70bQ

[crude matrix]

Void Knight, Level 97

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Sentinel (30) / Void Knight (75) / Forge Guard (5)

General:

▸ Health: 2,710, Regen: 48.55/s
▸ Mana: 217.35, Regen: 11.12/s
▸ Ward Retention: 28%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 43 Str / 7 Dex / 7 Int / 7 Att / 40 Vit
▸ Resistances: 87% / 91% / 80% / 74% / 79% / 75% / 75%
▸ EHP: 7,374 / 7,374 / 7,374 / 13,265 / 7,374 / 7,374 / 7,374

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 59%, Threshold: 542
▸ Dodge Chance: 1% (28)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 73% (7,437)

Damage Types:

▸ Void, Physical / Melee, Spell, DoT

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Warpath (28)
• Rive (24)
• Abyssal Echoes (22)
• Volatile Reversal (22)
• Void Cleave (26)

Used unique items:

• Aberroth's Command
• Naal's Tooth
• Falcon Fists
• Shattered Chains
• Darkstride
• Carcinization of Momentum
• Siphon of Anguish
• Nihilis

[tribal basin]

hiya , Warpath VK

[winged pulsar]

Thanks

[iron basin]

I played echo shield throw using the idol that made shield throw pure void

it was bad

but fun. I liked the sounds it made

[junior wren]

we need some spinning emoji. warpath is so popular

[tribal basin]

Also the Vid of that is very good

[waxen nymph]

I would love to see that shine

How did you try it?

[iron basin]

we should work on it when the rework drops because I honestly love shield throw is a skill

[terse hedge]

skills are immediately more fun if they are purple

[iron basin]

it just had garbage single target. clear was still great because it was a smite-proc build

[waxen nymph]

Oh so not Throwing Dmg based

[iron basin]

I tried throwing damage based initially

with the crit nodes and stuff

clear was okay but it struggled in massive groups AND single target

like it was fine until you got past basic empowered monos. any real density took a while to clear

[waxen nymph]

You kinda have to make it bounce on your MA for single target

[iron basin]

yeah that's what I came up with too

but then your MA does pretty much nothing because you're not investing into minion at all

[junior wren]

it tanks hits

[waxen nymph]

YoU CouLD SnaPShoT IT

[iron basin]

not really. it has no survivability if you're not investing into it

[iron basin]

no plz

[waxen nymph]

I hate it too

[iron basin]

I think one of the new shield throw nodes makes it able to bounce off yourself, but it might be locked behind the thing that gives it a CD

which would suck

[tribal basin]

Im still wondering how Brian works when you also have Julras Obsession with some LP affixes

[waxen nymph]

It is

It also gives 4'zxtra bounces

[iron basin]

lame

[winged pulsar]

Big help. I’m remembering why I didn’t go VK before. Pretty much impossible to use double red rings and can’t sustain mana full uptime on warpath. Great reference tho to maybe remedy that with the upcoming changes.

[iron basin]

I wanted to make a forge strike "slam" build work but it always felt just shy of where it should be since it was CD locked

[alpine canopy]

If we get other ways to proc shield throw, it could be great

so far it's just sigeon's I think?

[iron basin]

Sigeon's Reprisal time baby

[waxen nymph]

It gets stats from your Gloves, stats being passed by the gloves and also passes stats to minions he makes

[tribal basin]

yeah , wander explained it very well

[iron basin]

Don't really even need to lean hard into flat reflect honestly. just treat it as a way of getting flat throwing as a stat on your shield

[tribal basin]

every time i look at them i only think of Brian and how much the +240% stat efectiveness node would do and if it could break some thresholds

[iron basin]

sigeon's reprisal still isn't great in ST since you want to be taking hits, and taking hits against bosses can be a death sentence

it does make arena echoes really funny though. I did a reflect build with it and just stood in the middle of arena echoes while I got a snack

[alpine canopy]

It effectively brings you from 340% stat totals on your gloves to 440%, I don't think there are any regular glove affixes that would break

[alpine canopy]

I might try sigeon's again in S2 with the changes coming to ST. Last I tried it was before they doubled all the flat reflect affixes and it was pretty weak then, of course.

We'll see what the new tree looks like, could be fun

[iron basin]

I didn't actually know they did that

last time I tried it was 1.0 as well

[west obsidian]

I played Sigeon's ST in 1.1 and it was pretty good. https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Repeats/character/Blender

Got to like 500c with that build as CoF., which is saying something for FG

[alpine canopy]

Then you'll be better off now, they did the doubling thing in 1.1

[tribal basin]

Armor Shred chance and Stun Chance sound very okay

[iron basin]

i wanted to do it with void knight for the echo chance + void shield throw idol. makes sense for forge guard

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, FG has some really solid throwing support

[iron basin]

plus the noise that shield throw echo makes is silly

[spring pollen]

If you have shield throw with CD and it procs from sigeon shield does the CD reset? Or it is separate?

[iron basin]

it's separate

[west obsidian]

You 100% take the no cooldown nodes for playing shield throw though

[iron basin]

yeah

need the attack speed scaling

[west obsidian]

in season 2, that node will be much easier to get, so the tree opens up more possiblities

[alpine canopy]

also less damage penalty on it iirc

[west obsidian]

it already had less damage because of the travel nodes to get there

oh wait nvm, it comes with it now

[alpine canopy]

I mean the less damage that it gives you is not as much

poorly worded 😂

[west obsidian]

its already -25% dmg. So you will likely make up for with taking other nodes

[alpine canopy]

less penalty

so instead of -25% it's -5%

[spring pollen]

I was thinking about a shield throw with CD + javelin build where you throw shield and while it’s bouncing around you spam javelins

[tribal basin]

why even have that -5% in the first place

[alpine canopy]

No longer gives -mana cost now, but ST costs 6 mana base instead of 20 lol

[tribal basin]

1 T7 Throwing Hybrid on Rings and its 0

[alpine canopy]

Not sure, but the change from 25% less to 5% less is about a 27% damage buff

[iron basin]

do we know if the 2H+shield node is left side or right side?

[alpine canopy]

It's FG-only, so right side of the passive tree

[iron basin]

that's what I thought but wanted to be sure

[crude dune]

Every time i see this channel, my brain send me this picture :

[waxen nymph]

Great show

[iron basin]

devouring orb doesn't actually do anything on its own right? Needs stuff to die nearby?

assuming you don't have the orbit hit node

[waxen nymph]

Correct

But it's about to change in s2

It will have a Void dot aura around it

Can't wait to play Warpath orbiting DOrb + Smite Fissure Void

[iron basin]

I told myself I'd start with one of the meta builds in S2 so I could do my meme experimenting later

but now I kinda want to play a void caster

[waxen nymph]

There is no meta, only the meme

[iron basin]

in my defense I was playing ignite warlock before it became a known meta build

oh hey anomaly's time wave has vitality scaling

[waxen nymph]

But the cd is huge

Also it's not a dot

I love dot

[alpine canopy]

meme IS the meta

[iron basin]

We take the -CD node and invest in CDR 🧠

[analog steppe]

dorb basketball is the flavorful meme build (and is probably going to be good too)

[iron basin]

Shadow Beacon time

[analog steppe]

no beacon tbh

VR does it enough and the set seems like it would be good with it

[iron basin]

But I wanna SLAM

And welcome to the JAM

[umbral breach]

I have some questions how to scale Electrify.
Lightning damage is an obvious choice, same with lightning penetration with Electrify. Any DoT node or damage increase that applies to the skill (but is not specified) should work with Electrify. Attack speed increases stacks we apply. I assume that global lightning penetration also works.

Is there a limit to penetration? What about duration? Is there any source of increased Electrify duration outside of the skill tree?

In Javelin, there is a node called "Divine Throws," which states: "Effects related to Bleed or Ignite now depend on Electrify instead." Does this mean that all modifiers related to Bleed and Ignite work with Electrify? For example, does increased duration for Bleed/Ignite or "Health gained on Kill per stack of Bleed on the target" also apply to Electrify?

[waxen nymph]

Dont forget Inc Dot, Inc Ele Dot (roll the highest so it's the best)

No limit to penetration. Your 'can and should stack shock, Lightning Shred and some Pen. Also we know about a new passive in s2, More Lightning Dmg per Crit Multi

No, that phrase refers to stuff like
Javelin deals More Dmg to bleeding enemies for example. It calls to other node inside the tree

For duration we don't have sources outside the tree for now

[iron basin]

I actually asked in the most recent dev chat if they planned to make the damaging ailments more mechanically diverse. with the electrify support coming I'm worried it's gonna end up being just another flavor of the other ailments outside of time rot

they all end up playing the same way: just put a bunch of stacks on the target, as many as possible

Mike asked for suggestions on how to do it

[umbral breach]

Like electrify now has a limit of 20 stacks and after getting 20 stacks it deals dmg over time as an one hit and consumes them?

[iron basin]

even then, you're still incentivized to put as many stacks as possible out to get as many 20 stack pops as you can

maybe they would need to do it with uniques just because of how their ailments are setup. something like "Enemies you ignite can only have 5 ignites on them at once. XX% more ignite damage. YY% more ignite duration. Your ignites spread with Spreading Flames."

just something to make their DoT playstyles different. something like that unique would ask you to make big, chonky ignites instead of lots and lots of smaller ones

[umbral breach]

Electrify from attacks is now reflected to you. You get 20 stacks max. After getting 5 stacks you have lighting aura that deals dot dmg based on stacks and does not consume electrify. Hit and run electrify build?

[clever hazel]

Electrified enemies should zap nearby enemies when they move, dealing damage based on the electrify stacks they have. Weaponized static electricity, 50% more damage with Wool Sweater unique equipped.

[waxen nymph]

I like that one

[clever hazel]

The zap effect should have some recoil too, dealing damage back to the "source." Maybe remove some electrify stacks when this happens if it's too OP.

[waxen nymph]

They should spread naturally maybe

[alpine canopy]

I feel like ignite should spread naturally, and would be interesting if electrify did chaining damage somehow

[clever hazel]

Yeah, passive spreading is more of a fire thing. Active bursts of damage on movement/contact is thematic for electrify IMO.

[crude dune]

let's go water and oil ailement to spred shock/burn !

[analog steppe]

electrify so far has spreading mechanics already built into it with some skills, like healing hands skill tree node

could try and use that idea but for electrify as a base, when you hit an enemy with another electrify source it chains outwards and spreads to nearby enemies

[clever hazel]

I like Holy Winds on Healing Hands, hopefully they expand more on the Lightning theme stuff for that skill in season 2

it's a bit bare bones right now

[analog steppe]

I played self-cast smite electrify back when healing hands was first given a skill tree was a fun build

[clever hazel]

same

single target always felt lacking to me unfortunately, AoE was 10/10 fun though

[waxen nymph]

I like ignite pop like in enchant

[iron basin]

i've been playing a flame reave ignite build and popping them with enchant weapon is a rush

[iron basin]

someone on reddit actually made a thread a few hours ago about my ailment question to mike

[quiet hearth]

Ive been saying since early beta that spreading flames should be the default behavior of ignite.

[inland quarry]

i honestly don't understand why ehg nerfed judgement. it wasn't even nearly as op as those current top skills. now it's just as bad as falcon fist.

even worse now without volatile reversal

[crude dune]

i wanted to play judgement next season :c finger crossed it'll not be "so" bad

[analog steppe]

I haven’t seen a single statement out of your mouth other than complete dooming all the time, maybe just wait for the patch notes and chill

[crude dune]

Top ladder Paladin playing judgement without VR, but idk

[alpine canopy]

That is fun, too. Not sure why this made me think of it, but does warlock have pops? Because it feels like it should and I can't think of any.

[alpine canopy]

What did they do to it?

[inland quarry]

it was a certain % more dmg per mp used. but it got cut in half.

[alpine canopy]

I don't remember them touching that node at all, when was that?

[inland quarry]

1.1

[alpine canopy]

Ah okay, even 1.1 was a while ago lol, looks like they cut it in third

iirc it was 1-shotting stuff so probably deserved, but yeah idk why sentinel has all its broken stuff fixed on high priority

maybe devs can't see rogue due to stealth

[inland quarry]

i was never able to get it to 1shot anything, but i was getting 1shot a lot since it had no defenses, everything got sacrificed for mp

[crude dune]

Some fun builds were killed, then Ward powercreep on bosses comes to put the nail in the coffin ;o

[turbid dome]

?

the ward is a weaker version of the hidden DR bosses used to get

or is there a weird breakpoint for a very low dps build

[crude dune]

yeah i play low dps builds ><" it's another world / game

[alpine canopy]

They did buff boss EHP alongside the change, so a lot of people think that the ward did that

[turbid dome]

ah

did not realize they buffed bosses EHP

so ward + buffed ehp would still be better than hidden DR + buffed ehp

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, I kinda wish they kept the EHP closer to what it was previously when making the change to just change one thing at a time, but it's okay

people will still not like the ward thing just due to feels, which is fair

[turbid dome]

true

[crude dune]

so true !

[scenic gyro]

didnt they say they arent happy with the ward thing either and wanna change it? guess it didnt make it into season 2or they didnt mention it

[crude dune]

And it didn't change people bursting boss with broken builds in 0.007 sec

[crude dune]

Campagne bosses will be change i think, ward will be for late game only ?

[inland quarry]

and i bet none of those builds were sentinel

[alpine canopy]

They are removing it from most enemies, and I believe also increasing the decay rate

[crude dune]

true, it was 2 shots (the double)

[slow plaza]

that was a bug

that has been fixed

[crude dune]

Arf... Sentinel can't one shot Aberroth.... but Aberroth can one shot Sentinel at least ! 😄

[turbid dome]

[iron basin]

You can pop your zombies with chaos bolt

[iron basin]

That node is being reworked with 1.2 because of the VR changes

[alpine canopy]

I mean effects that consume DOT ailments to deal their remaining damage

[alpine canopy]

Its damage is remaining the same as it is currently, just burns less of your mana to do it

[iron basin]

Oh I don't think so. Closest would be popping your infernal shades with cthonic fissure

[alpine canopy]

Oh yeah, forgot about that one. It's kinda buggy so I put it in the back of my mind lol

[muted cloud]

There goes the armor I wanted to shuffle around in 1.2...

[waxen nymph]

Reduced the value per Mana in 1.1
But it's getting reversed to the original value in 1.2, but this time it will use 25%max mana instead of 100% current mana

[waxen nymph]

Was it not the change to Corruption that mainly buff the boss hp ?

[warped blade]

pls pls pls be good

[turbid dome]

😭

[alpine canopy]

That also did, was that at the same time?

[winged pulsar]

Just get more mana bro

[waxen nymph]

I believe so

[terse hedge]

but no reversal to get mana back
🥹

[waxen nymph]

Going to have to use Vengeance

[winter copper]

us rive

[iron basin]

good riddance imo. that skill is awful to play with in the current state

[inland quarry]

That's already another nerf on an under used skill jesus

And warpath nerfs too. I seriously believe ehg hates sentinel.

Ain't nobody can get enough mana sustain for that kind of mana drain

The most I can see is 300 percent more DMG for 1 second, then ur out of mana till then.

[scenic gyro]

when did warpath get nerfed, did i miss smth

[uneven gorge]

it hasn't, this dude just dooming

[scenic gyro]

figured as much ^^

[umbral breach]

what are the best methods of regaining mana for sentinel?

[scenic gyro]

depends on the skill you are using

[umbral breach]

javelin + smite to stack electrify

[scenic gyro]

there is a node in sentinel and affix for helmet/body where you gain mana when you direct use smite

also smite is a spell, if you are using a sceptre you can get -spell cost on that as well

[gusty abyss]

If smite is triggered via idols then it is free, leaving only the javelin cost. Which you can reduce in the tree as well as with jewelry. Additionally, a couple mana regen affixes help a lot.

[little temple]

Only way I can see it work is with mana stacking and those void essences that restore 30% of Max mana once you are oom. But no clue if this triggers before you stop warpath because oom

[noble zenith]

that doesnt look good imo, hope i'm wrong tho

[alpine canopy]

The upcoming change is a buff technically, they are just reducing the mana it eats without touching the damage.

[slow plaza]

actually warpath is recieving a sizable change. Something we werent aware of, but Warrior's Fury was apparently not meant to work on the echoes of Warpath, which means that the echo warriors fury version is getting a somewhat sizeable change.

Its not a nerf, but a bug fix, but still its been in the game for close to 2 years now

so it might as well be a nerf, especially considering you can physically see the echo'd warpaths growing in size

[winter copper]

u need to check numbers again, its a buff not a nerf and judgement conc ground spam variation will be insane

[winter copper]

warriors fury nerfed

[turbid dome]

Truly the over preforming warpath spec

[alpine canopy]

It had it coming, clearly

Loss of VR mana recovery hit it pretty hard, too, I suppose

[winter copper]

it wasnt lol, it got nerfed only cause of idiotic shrines

the echo being affected was a side effect not because build was op

[alpine canopy]

I should have used
Ye it's far from OP

[robust lake]

happy birthday Misha

[winged pulsar]

Warpath nerfed to the ground. Can’t even clear campaign now. It’s joever

[little temple]

At least we can play warpath on mage now

[winter copper]

tyy

[winter copper]

its finneee u just play rive+hh untill lvl 30, it needs levels

[alpine canopy]

Now they just need to add warpath to falconer and everything will be perfectly balanced

[turbid dome]

to be fair seeing the falcon spin like a beyblade would be funny

[scenic gyro]

i dont wanna hear anythign about balance since i saw what they enable with the glancing blow block passive in falconer+cradle (85% glancing blow with 1 item and 5 passive points)

thats just criminal

[winter copper]

typical ehg

[turbid dome]

real

[alpine canopy]

What, you didn't think "meteor, but it's a bird and also better" was balanced?

[turbid dome]

[crude dune]

So many misogynistic- anti animal - hateful jealous people here !! Ooops i boycott falconer too ><" "one of us..."

[turbid dome]

what

[crude dune]

it's a joke, like saying Sentinel is the worst class because ehg considere people of color less.....

[turbid dome]

thats not a joke

[crude dune]

Are you implying they made Sentinel bad on Purpose ?

Why?

[little temple]

My guess is that they made sentinel early and because of the inevitable power creep newer stuff is just better

[turbid dome]

no

[austere coral]

I remember playing kickstarter demo years ago(back then I had laptop which barely ran it), Sentinel was there, so was Beastmaster and... Necro, I think?

[turbid dome]

That sounds correct?

[turbid dome]

I can’t tell if this is real or not

Oop yep that’s from ehg’s facebook account

[austere coral]

I think it is, Void Knight and Beastmaster checks out, I forgot what the 3rd class was

[turbid dome]

Also when the void knight was a she

The Facebook post I found https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=599727447030416&id=100063526901907

[sharp socket]

probably from the April 1st jokes around the corner?

[turbid dome]

nah thats from a 2018 EHG facebook post

[sharp socket]

Ah ok, I automatically block facebook mentions if they contain a link so I must not have seen it before.

[turbid dome]

understandable

[winter copper]

when the cook goes too far

[covert phoenix]

Ironically enough, I planned a build abusing the weapon on acolyte haha

since she has a spell triggering melee attacks

[turbid dome]

[alpine canopy]

Longer attack duration = longer time for big DR and stun immunity
Why need move speed when bonk instead

[warped blade]

Yea it's really bad I tried so much to get even 1 point to work but the cost was insane

It's been a while but have they made it so mana regens during channeling skills? Or nah?

[alpine canopy]

Yes, it does

for most, anyway

[noble zenith]

is it even worth i mean, this season i played a smitepath, so most of my dmg are from my smite and not my warpath, the dmg increase isnt even worth

[inland quarry]

this can easily be explained away by 'ehg hates sentinel.'

they have the same trauma that chris wilson has when it comes to the pure melee class.

i mean i love last epoch, but the state of the sentinel is just so sad.

but i'm hoping the patch notes proves me wrong and makes me shut up.

[crude dune]

Would have "all arpg HATES melee", but Sentinel got spells too

[crude dune]

you have to FEEL the (heavy) WEIGHT ! Flicker Strike Lover btw (then stop playing)

[inland quarry]

it's got all the slowness of a tank, and the low dps of a tank, but none of the actual tankiness of a tank. i mean hell, a freaking mage is more tanky. smh.

[alpine canopy]

Definitely not worth it if you're not using warpath hits as your primary damage. It's questionable even if you are utilizing it to its best, though.

[crude dune]

i am very tanky, until i enter Empower Mono and late game , true :/

[inland quarry]

sentinels are tankier than other classes for the first 30 levels, but that's it.

[crude dune]

Spin to Win still fun in arpg, not the best but "moving and hitting" does the job ((better than hitting and dying lol))

[inland quarry]

wish we could spin in place so that we don't glide into abberoths aoe and die.

i've spun into dot's a lot

[crude dune]

I had a LOT of fun with my Erasing strike, very frustrating when boss just fly away / run all over the place, but the "Slam Feel" is good

but yeah can't take Julra and Abby 😉

(skill issues)

[alpine canopy]

You can be stationary, or nearly stationary, if you're careful with your mouse position. Would be nice if it had a larger deadzone, though.

[inland quarry]

but when you spin away to avoid his next strike, it's hard to stop

[crude dune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_O7kbgS8MI

[inland quarry]

and then you overshoot into some ground dot and die

[alpine canopy]

It takes practice

[inland quarry]

easier to just falcon punch it to death from a safe distance lol

or heartseeker from a safe distance in season 2

[crude dune]

2.7k hp :v not for me

"my Sentinel dash on his own into DoT pools"

[inland quarry]

good luck with 2.7khp

[crude dune]

He takes somes damage, but 30sec Abby is worth it

[winter copper]

realistically its not that ehg hates sentinel its just build power on sentinel literally can vary in 50x times more EHP and 10x more dmg, while on other classes its true only partially its way less noticeable there and also fewer top builds and u have to abuse vr/rebuke ideally both to be effective

[inland quarry]

can't do anything while rebuking. and vr is gone

rebuke needs to be at least 20 seconds

[winter copper]

well surprise u can 🙂

[inland quarry]

spammable imo

besides, i bet he took 20 takes for that abberoth kill

[winter copper]

especially in s2 with timrot we will have more builds with rebuke abusing, now its just erasing strike/dorb/minions and dorb is weak

[hushed knoll]

do smite fissures convert to void with the passive that converts smite to void?

[winter copper]

not yet but with s2 there are talks that it will with conversions applying to all subskills

[polar spire]

im guessing just run channeled healing hand to completely ignore the negative attack speed?

[winter copper]

2 sec casting erasing strike for boots dr+stun immune

[junior wren]

show me a mage with 10k armor and 100% block chance, I'll wait

[inland quarry]

armor and block don't mean jack when you can have 20k ward. show me a sentinel with the tankiness, clear + the dps of that very same mage. I'll wait.

[woven temple]

nah its true for all classes, and while on some level I hate the "highly managed player experience" game design paradigm that had been quite prevalent for the past 20 years or so, LE and most other arpgs veer way too far into the other direction where player power can vary so widely that the game is impossible to balance as a result

[polar spire]

i would argue this if it were a few years ago back when i cared more

tankiness and dps doesnt matter if its a slam judgement pal though

slam judge is the most glass cannon in the game

[junior wren]

Haha, except when you get hit for 20000, your mage dies. When sentinel gets hit for 20000, armor and block reduces it to ~1500 and he survives.

Let's say you manage to activate your flame ward at the right time and DR saves your butt. Now you have 14000 ward left, next hit you die.
Sentinel gets instantly healed to full HP and can take the second hit aswell.

[polar spire]

but you also hit 10mill+ crits

every 3-4s

but you also die immediately if anything even sneezes on you

[junior wren]

the delusion about sentinel is real

[polar spire]

its more fun in group play

judge still hits like an absolute truck even after being nerfed twice

it needed the nerfs though, i used to be able to judge 80 mill crits

[uneven gorge]

And none of that will matter when you get hit by 2 ticks from a random dot and get vaporized 😔

[polar spire]

that shouldnt be alowed lol

[junior wren]

I did say sentinel gets instantly healed to full HP, that works on dots too.

fun fact, healing and regen don't show up in EHP calc

[polar spire]

fire abyssal echoes support pal is a lot of fun too

can literally afk in boss mechanics while healing 5000+ a sec

[junior wren]

oh? Tell me more. I thought abyssal echoes pales in comparison to other healing options

[polar spire]

depends on VR though, and that depends on how chunked VR gets on the rework

abyssal echoes casts on the ground once, and then 2 more times, so you're spamming it under your feet, and have like 20 abyssal echoes hitting you each second

fantastic in group play too

and ignite stacking

[junior wren]

so it's similar to judgement spam, hard on your mana though, right?

[polar spire]

yea hence vr

make vr the max 4s, and then its just VRing every 4s

and you just eat boss mechanics and can num lock auto cast abyssal echoes

[uneven gorge]

Yeah, that's because it's sustain, not tankiness. Both very important ofc. But at a certain level of corruption no amount of sustain can stop you from dying in 2 milliseconds. At which point rogue is the king of tankiness

[polar spire]

i can attest to rogue being the tankiest, and thats with 0 dodge too

dusk shroud stacks + mountain boots + stack crazy health

works on bear druids too

and swarmblades

you get like 6000+ health on any of the 3, and then endurance threshold covering all 6000+ health

easiest to pull off on rogue

but ive done 9k health bears with 8k endurance threshold

[junior wren]

That's where armor and block comes in. You can have all at the same time.

Comparing it to glass cannon mage and saying mage is tankier than sentinel is so ridiculous

[uneven gorge]

Not really...

[polar spire]

sentinels have access to rebuke
thats all that needs to be said
sent's can soak literally any hit in the game with rebuke

[uneven gorge]

It's tanky, yeah, but not super tanky

Rebuke is great

[polar spire]

i remember back when they were messing with emp of corpses arena, and his aoe nuke was hitting the full arena and we had a guy in here asking what to do, and i was like.... just put rebuke on your bar, dont even need to spec it

guy finished it the next attempt

[uneven gorge]

Rebuke is probably the best unpec'ed skill, it's so good

[polar spire]

im a sent main at heart, but even i can attest to how tanky mages are

my all time favorite mage build is afk focus

literally numlock auto cast focus on T4 julra, and leave my pc for 15 min to make food in the kitchen and come back to her being dead

and with the new stuff coming

it'll be even stronger

[uneven gorge]

Yeah, casual 75% damage reduction permanantly and high armour

[junior wren]

what? julra is like under 30s bossfight 😄

[polar spire]

yea if like a crazy dps build, but im known as the queen of jank here, i make really dumbass builds

[uneven gorge]

We're talking about tankiness, remember?

[polar spire]

i try to make every skill work, even if people call it crap

[uneven gorge]

T4 julra can be a 3 second fight if you really want

[junior wren]

yes, you can be tanky and sentinel and kill julra under 30 seconds

[uneven gorge]

I know...?

[polar spire]

yea play glass cannon judge, you can do it in under 15

[uneven gorge]

I'm a sentinel fangirl too

[polar spire]

you can also 1/2 shot end game bosses

but once i achieved that i just started playing more for fun and dumb builds

i mean thats a dumb build too

[spring pollen]

I have never used rebuke before. Does it work on all bosses attacks? I might need it for slow moving character in season 2 lol

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, it just gives straight DR, and some other stuff if you spec it. Granted, some boss attacks will still kill you through it if you're not really tanky

[spring pollen]

Ok very cool. Is there a preferred way to spec it? The CDR and duration increases look good

[turbid dome]

If your planning on farming Lagon or a different ele damage boss get the node for 60% dr vs ele damage

But in general if you have a skill being triggered, you can just put inspected rebuke into that slot of your bar

[spring pollen]

Does vanilla rebuke not give DR to elemental? Or is the 60% in addition to the 80%?

[turbid dome]

In addition

With no points in its tree it’s 80% dr to everything

[spring pollen]

Amazing thanks. Not sure why I’ve never tried it out before

[turbid dome]

It’s not really needed for most content

Only for when your hitting higher corruption do you really need it to not die

But it is super fun just not taking damage from Lagon, like ever

[spring pollen]

I’m not great at the whole dodging mechanics thing so if I can block them instead that would be nice

[turbid dome]

Rebuke is gonna be your best friend then

[spring pollen]

Does it count as a “block” for things that would trigger on block?

[turbid dome]

There is also an amulet called apostates sanctuary that makes rebuke better… but you need to build around its downside

[turbid dome]

No

[spring pollen]

Ok great this is very helpful

[turbid dome]

[spring pollen]

Oh by the way does the DR also apply to dots and ailments or just hits?

[turbid dome]

It doesn’t specify hits so it’s everything

[spring pollen]

Noice

[turbid dome]

Also @spring pollen if you are planning on using a shield, I recommend staying with an iron glass shield (second highest level shield base) and not using the dawn shield (highest level shield base) as the iron glass shield comes with more block chance

[spring pollen]

Ok awesome will do

%block chance is highest priority all around I guess?

[turbid dome]

Until you hit 100% yea

But 5% block chance is a lot harder to get than like 400 block effectiveness

[spring pollen]

Other than shield and passive tree, is there a good source of block chance?

[turbid dome]

Rings and gloves can get it

[spring pollen]

Ok great

Wasn’t there something in the FG two handed weapon in 1H node about haste to block chance

I need to find that

[turbid dome]

An iron glass comes with 35% block chance and can have an affix giving another 26%

[turbid dome]

That’s for the next update

[spring pollen]

Do you know where I can find that tooltip screenshot?

Found it

#🔱┃sentinel message

[turbid dome]

Oh hey that was me who sent that

[spring pollen]

😄

So with shield and affix and that node you can get 71%. Then in passives there is another 9? Need to check

Found 11 on passive available for FG

[turbid dome]

I’m probably forgetting something but hitting 100% block chance is like the thing to do on sentinel

I’m also learning that LE tools builder thing does not like loading on my phone

[spring pollen]

Lol same it keeps refreshing or going blank on mobile. Didn’t used to do that

How does block effectiveness work? Is there a general value to kind of aim for?

[turbid dome]

If your interested in numbers there’s tunklab

https://lastepoch.tunklab.com

If you want to do the math yourself this page has the formula on it

https://www.lastepochtools.com/guide/section/block

If im doing a block build after capping block chance its normally the shields implicit block effectiveness + affix that adds block effectiveness + 4 2x2 idols with block effectiveness

What ever number that comes out to be

On the passive tree I don’t really go for block effectiveness, only really what I have to take to get the block chance %

[spring pollen]

Ok amazing thanks a ton. I guess with the exalted shields giving so much block chance and effectiveness it is a bit challenging to use unique shields in builds…

[turbid dome]

Yes and no

For example the shield bash build uses two unique shields

Bleed builds love the flayers shield

And next cycle/season I’m gonna start a build that uses the forgotten knights shield

You can also get a unique shield with lp and slam block chance onto it

[analog steppe]

technically its 1 unique shield and 1 unique axe >.<

[scenic gyro]

im honestly still addicted to cradle, hard to replace it unless you really need a unique effect in that slot

[turbid dome]

Shush

[spring pollen]

I was eyeing the shield throw shield for next season but the block chance is very low. Would need to slam a block chance on that I guess

[turbid dome]

Cradle is great, needing the stacks for the extra block chance hurts me a lil

[scenic gyro]

depends on the build, on high dps builds its pretty good for a defensive burst when you need it
if i expect to tank alot i would go for an exalted one as well

[turbid dome]

True

[polar spire]

Its for people that usually get stuck on a boss due to gear check, you can just straight up skip annoying mechanics and continue on with your bad gear till you get your good gear

Sentinel has that luxury, everyone else gets screwed

Well, mage has self freeze but thats it

[turbid dome]

Tbh I can’t wait for the new VR so I can teleport out of the boss AOE then yeet myself right back into melee

[polar spire]

I better see hardcore players still be able to accidentally vr into lagon laser

[turbid dome]

That’s a sentinel rite of passage

[umbral breach]

Does anyone of you used this? 75 ward on hit shocked enemy seems good? I was thinking about rings and this with electrify javelin + Stormtide (boots) or Oceareon (ring) - can do both. Ward is hard to scale on sentinel. Is it worth it, if i dont have any unique ring in second slot? I hope this affix can be crafted in new patch.

[waxen nymph]

Pretty sure it will get nerfed/changed

Where you are going to get more ward per procc but there will be a cap to the procs

[turbid dome]

Personally no, on avg 7.5 ward per hit isn’t a ton

If warding hands pally was still a really strong build sure

[alpine canopy]

I'll guess higher proc chance with a cap

[spring pollen]

I used this on my tornado storm bolt shaman and it generated a lot of ward because you hit a bajillion times a second but haven’t used on anything else.

[alpine canopy]

It is quite a lot of ward of builds that dish out tons of hits

The weaver ring has a similar effect, but is capped by your health/mana

[umbral breach]

On Lounge you get javelin (thats 5 hits on single target if overlaps) + piercing spears and smite + healing hands on melee hit. I dont know how many things can we hit. In packs probably a ton.

[polar spire]

I use it on focus mage for a good while till better ring drops

I'd guess you could use it on a spam lightning jav chucker and get good use out of it

[polar spire]

@dense mountain about the ring above

Tornado storm bolts what hes doing right now

[noble zenith]

Cant wait to throw javelin on CD and feel like zeus

[turbid dome]

I need something that makes the jav banner mode use hammer throw

A bajillion smites gaming

[junior wren]

So build of the month is Channeled Healing Hands. Sadly the guide is from a year ago, so it only has video from 1.0 and Skyfall didn't get bonuses from HH tree in 1.0 but apparently it does now in 1.1. Anyone tried it?

[turbid dome]

No

It looked cool tho

Hope it works in 1.2

[junior wren]

Yeah the beam is cool, maybe if Taunt from Manifest Armor is good you could combine it?

[turbid dome]

Hmm

[junior wren]

minion stacks monsters and you do orbital strike 😄

[turbid dome]

Does the beam count as a hit?

[junior wren]

no, but the channeled HH does

[turbid dome]

Anomaly time lock + beam

[junior wren]

only two seconds :F

[turbid dome]

Uhh

Primalist friend who taunts everything

[junior wren]

yeah that would be better

[turbid dome]

Now if we could rebuke while using the laser beam from the heavens it would be a lot better

[fluid sparrow]

Quick question, anyone knows what the last part of the sentence entails?
Cuz there are no real nodes about bleed otherwise on Erasing strike?

So "effects that depend on bleed" ... but if there are none? Or at least I don't know many conditional things that state "AGainst bleeding targets" or so....

At first I thought bleed duration etc, but usually that is then in the bottom part as well, which it isn't?

[alpine canopy]

It's just standard wording, I don't think there are any things in ES that it affects. It would normally convert effects like "vs. bleeding targets" or "per stack of bleed".

[fluid sparrow]

oh ok

Thx!

[little temple]

Man I really hope they do something with smelters wrath. Its so anti synnergistic with itself. Getting increased area actually makes the skill worse instead of better, its so backwards

[alpine canopy]

It's a janky skill, really needs a graphical redo

[junior wren]

I think they nerfed it recently, or will be nerfing it?

saw a video with some oneshots

[slow plaza]

that was a bug

it was scaling infinitely which it should't have been

the node states a cap, but it had no cap ingame for a bit

leading to a lot of people thinking the skill was OP

[winter copper]

It sunds hopeless. Right now its already doing around 1/3 or errasing strike dps if not less in bis gear

I feel like ehg is just so bad numericaly with fs and wrath

Not being able to spam it due to 1 sec cd is a big hurdle too

And 2h node will make it even less dps cause only a dummy would pass on free block

[alpine canopy]

It's not coming in S2, but sounds like getting us capable of turning while channeling SW could be in our future. Won't fix the numbers issue, but it would help. I hope they fix the numbers in S2, we'll see on the 11th I think.

[alpine canopy]

SW is one of the skills that benefits most from the 2h+shield node since it doesn't scale with attack speed. It should definitely improve damage over 1h+shield on it - but it's definitely not free block on a 2h build

[winter copper]

well nobody was playing 1h+shield sw

thats kinda dumb

as for block it is free imo with new 2h node its +10% block, 8% from passives, 8% blesssings, 12-15% sigils and 15% from RoS, so 53-55% block chance just from being FG

you only need 45% block chance which can be done with exalted shield or lp

[alpine canopy]

But you do 20% less damage

[winter copper]

das fine cause ukheros shield for example gives more that 20% dmg due to ramping cost and fg passive+ over 150% inc dmg from combined str and increase

or u can go bulwark

[tropic grotto]

So hypothetically now that vengeance has a fire conversion....extremely long falsewater fury? You should be able to generate more mana than you lose for the 20 on hit so its just the ramping drain that would get you

[waxen nymph]

Yup

Also I am not sure how it works with procced HH

[empty path]

Drain mana count as negative mana Regen?

[waxen nymph]

No, its a different mechanic

Also Mana Regen is disabled while you have Falsewater Fury

[junior wren]

it doesn't say directly, so procced HH should eat mana and get bonus damage too

but then you couldn't generate more than you eat anymore, because it would eat 20 for Vengeance and another 20 for HH proc

[alpine canopy]

There's a chance it won't work for procced attacks, Mike seemed to think it wouldn't work for SD, but also he doesn't know how SD works, so idk

[junior wren]

what about echoed attacks?

Logically I would think echo already includes the bonus from the original attack, so it won't work for echoed attacks to avoid double dipping

[waxen nymph]

Not necessarly
For exemple if you Void Cleave for the garanted ES Crit, and your ES echoes, the echo doesnt have the Crit

[alpine canopy]

I don't know how echoes actually work, sounds like they are a new attack, so wouldn't have the effect and would need to proc again for the bonus

Same thing that would cause what Vlad said

[junior wren]

so it might be a choice between sustaining the mana cost vs. dumping mana into procs and echoes. Sounds like Chamberlain will have some secrets to unravel

[alpine canopy]

I'll probably test it out a bit in S2, since I'll most likely start as VK and it'll be a lot nicer testing hits with the damage variance removed on dummies

[crude dune]

there is weird void magic going on here....

[split quartz]

Hi guys...for Shield bash build, what would be desirable Unique(s) you would wanna have? Except the axe/Shield one?

[waxen nymph]

Shattered Chains is good for all Melee Char

Bulwark of the Last Abyss (shield) is nice

[split quartz]

Oh i got that one

With apocalypse buff

[waxen nymph]

The ring from Orobyss

Boots you could go for Foot of the Mountain or Suloron Step

[split quartz]

But my HP is dropping when Full HP 🤪

[waxen nymph]

Thats fine, you have Healing Hand healing + some leech

[split quartz]

I think it does not matter when having +100% block

So..for the boots

Even when i am "statter steping" it will proc?

[waxen nymph]

stutter*
And I dont think so

[split quartz]

Thank you 🙂... Stutter

And lastly

I cant find last skill to add

[waxen nymph]

You really need to slam Flat Crit on your Sh-Axe btw

[split quartz]

I got Shield bash, HH movement

Shields

And sigils

Its like i dont need anything else

[waxen nymph]

Shield Bash, HH (Melee Proc + Traversal), Sigils, RoS (for Block Effect), and VR (though you wont in S2)

Right now VR is 60% More Dmg for just a skill Slots

No reason not to take it

[split quartz]

Hm...after the patch it wont be used i guess

[waxen nymph]

🤞

[split quartz]

So we will have free slot

🧐

[waxen nymph]

Javelin Banner could be an option

[split quartz]

Hmm