🔱┃sentinel

[alpine canopy]

No, there's no poison hit damage on any skill

[lament star]

drain life with necrotic > poison then stygian beam ?

doesnt inherit the dmg type ?

[alpine canopy]

Just does necrotic damage

[lament star]

trash game

[turbid dome]

🥵 luv me trash game

[alpine canopy]

The poison conversion on chthonic fissure converts the initial hit from fire to necrotic, most other poison conversions convert the hit damage to phys (like det arrow)

[cursive rose]

stygan is on hit but i dont think it converts but it would still rack on dots, i have a ladel on as im tinkering with it and i see the debuffs going on

[quiet hearth]

why is sent chat loaded up with acolyte stuff?

not bad nemmy, not bad

[alpine canopy]

Today sentinel chat is every class chat because we've fallen to the void

[quiet hearth]

[worldly nacelle]

First time rolling a sentinel. Torn between VK and pally. Which mastery does better in high corr?

[turbid dome]

void knight can go big bonk, pally has something (idk have never played a pally)

[turbid dome]

conversational drift

[quiet hearth]

Im not saying it was too much drift, but I could hear the Initial D soundtrack playing catching up

In all seriousness Im not a mod, do what you want. Would be nice to see Vlad working for once.

[waxen nymph]

Wow

[quiet hearth]

🪤

[turbid dome]

making vlad do work LOL

making my dude @keen radish do work tho

[brittle grove]

vlad doing work? whats next? COF and sentinel getting fixed`?

[waxen nymph]

1.2 😉

[brittle grove]

after years of poe i'll say one thing : i believe it when i play it, not 1 second before

[quiet hearth]

man Ive been crashing all day today

[sturdy quest]

is there a spec where you can wield two two-handers?

[twilit valley]

If you mean dual wield 2 handers then I don’t think so

[alpine canopy]

No

[magic panther]

that would be an interesting passive or skill node though

[turbid dome]

On one hand yes, on the other hand I don’t think giving void night 4 T7 melee void damage affixes is a good idea

Which would be doubled with foe reaver for rive

[magic panther]

good point. what about instead, being able to use a 2hand with a shield?

make it forge guard maybe

[turbid dome]

Twohander with a shield would be interesting, the problem is tho is that it’s strictly better than a one hander and a shield (as two handers get significantly bigger rolls and numbers compared to one handers, since one handers get the other item slot)

it would need a big enough downside to not be a direct upgrade to one hander + shield (like on the level of you can't equip a helmet so this doesnt effectively get an extra item worth of stats)

[turbid dome]

I gotta make reynauld in Last epoch

[keen radish]

Aw hell naw let me lurk in the shadows

[turbid dome]

[cobalt blade]

Btw, there is not enough support to make future strike dot work yea?

[turbid dome]

theres like one source of it in the entire game so no

[cobalt blade]

Yea, sadge

Its a cool time-related dot inb4 he becomes a purple chronomancer (time mage)

[haughty canopy]

lol got a 133% ignite on a nemesis dreatmthorn

warpath?

[cobalt blade]

Isnt void becoming obsolete if you convert to fire? I have never played with fire

[haughty canopy]

i meant it converts to time rot lol

[alpine canopy]

Or... on two hands

[haughty canopy]

Badum Tish

[winged pulsar]

Stand down or die.

[cobalt blade]

I cannot do that.

[haughty canopy]

nothing beats FOOLS... FOOLSS~~ then exploding static orb

what we get from sentinel? smites from hammers?

[cobalt blade]

Actually pretty funny but I dont play mages. Peepo who do probably got annoyed after a long time hearing it

[quiet hearth]

I forgot how painful it was to sustain mana on echoes

[maiden merlin]

are there affixes on gear that forged items won't inherent?

like theres gloves that say bleed chance is converted to ignite, will that pass on to the manifest armor?

[alpine canopy]

Yes, the more complicated the affix, the more likely you can assume it doesn't transfer. Skill procs and attributes never transfer. I don't think conversions do, either.

[willow cloak]

Can I get feedback on this please.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/B5N6NK3o

[crude matrix]

Forge Guard, Level 51

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.4

Class:

Sentinel (22) / Forge Guard (38) / Paladin (4)

General:

▸ Health: 753, Regen: 57.56/s
▸ Mana: 83.76, Regen: 10.81/s
▸ Attributes: 15 Str / 0 Dex / 0 Int / 4 Att / 14 Vit
▸ Resistances: 94% / 65% / 99% / 35% / 34% / 34% / 39%
▸ EHP: 2,216 / 1,952 / 2,216 / 1,703 / 1,443 / 1,439 / 1,501

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 48%, Threshold: 276
▸ Dodge Chance: 2% (22)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 37% (1,269)
▸ Block Chance: 32%, Mitigation: 51% (1,373)

Damage Types:

▸ Physical / Melee, Spell, Throwing

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Ring Of Shields (20)
• Shield Bash (21)
• Shield Throw (22)
• Shield Rush (21)
• Rebuke (21)

Used unique items:

• Thorn Slinger

[waxen nymph]

Look decent for now.
I would recommend you take 1pt in Aegis (Shield Throw) so it can bounce on your shields
Inside RoS the increase Block Effectiveness is super good (top left)

[ivory sky]

only really been playing my forge guard any use for this, this season?

[pearl warren]

how do devouring orb void rift builds perform? i couldnt find any on LE tools

i ask because i got a shadow beacon with t7 increased void damage

[maiden merlin]

so bleed chance converted to ignite chance wont transfer?

[willow cloak]

thanks

[maiden merlin]

i wanted to use this with manifest armor lol

[cobalt blade]

bruh... whr is da Channel Cost 😢

[brittle grove]

do you want a fridging slap`?

[cobalt blade]

[flat linden]

Is this good? worth rolling sentinel with it?

[gritty pasture]

Nope attack speed useless

You need flat melee crit chance

[twilit valley]

Some guy invited me for abberoth and he killed him in 5 seconds , He was on a mage

[turbid dome]

yup

[brittle grove]

5? dang, bro was slow

[cobalt blade]

Ouch..

[turbid dome]

the emotional damage of seeing a belt drop from shade and its the jungle queens chaps

[cobalt blade]

🫂

[turbid dome]

if I keep killing shades, surely one will drop a belt for more slams

[cobalt blade]

They dont wear belt and have a loose pants

[turbid dome]

these monsters!

[twilit valley]

Hehe

[quiet hearth]

Engi, how do I solve mana issues on VK?

[waxen nymph]

What are you playing ?

[quiet hearth]

memes

[waxen nymph]

Because you could use

• VR
• Void Well
• Mana ine use with Rive/Vengeance/Smite

[quiet hearth]

I HATE VR

[cobalt blade]

[quiet hearth]

Well that came out far more aggressive that I wanted

[waxen nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/the-end-of-teletubies-oof-gif-26682332

[quiet hearth]

I love this keyboard for gaming but the left shift and caps are really close, it's garbo for typing with my missing link hands

In all seriousness, drive by ignite using VC, still leveling and the echoes demolish my mana

[waxen nymph]

VC, Fire AE I guess too ?

[quiet hearth]

That's the plan, using the auto recasts, though I dont know if the abberoth's, or eternal eclipse

[cursive rose]

I thought the bleed to fire gloves did work on forgeman and minion?

[waxen nymph]

It should

Do you have the ring for the weapons ?

[cursive rose]

yea I mean ive put it on and stuff and it worked but someone was saying it didnt a little bit ago

[waxen nymph]

It does

[quiet hearth]

I should see about scaling duration on bleeds with FS just so I can pop them with AE

[cursive rose]

Ill recheck but im preettty sure it does even tho its a funkier stat

minons hate the funky stats but some converstions work

[turbid dome]

void well + rive for me

there are also affixes that give you mana on hitting things with some skills

[brittle grove]

how about an ultra old solution :
warpath with - channel cost and + mana regeneration
🧓

[quiet hearth]

That is what I was leaning towards because the whole goal is to drive by hit with VC, and just keep going

[cursive rose]

I dont even think i have any - mana cost on my warpath and im still at a mana neutral smiting and throwing axes I need to use ER just to dump like 500 mana

Drive by forge guard is very fun

with the smelters attacks behind you node

[quiet hearth]

This is drive by VK, the plan is to get as much echo chance as possible

[turbid dome]

if its that you would probs want mana regen for it

[quiet hearth]

That isnt drive by, that is roll up on your door fg

[turbid dome]

and probs the void well node too with some void essence idols

[cursive rose]

I dunno attacking beind me makes me feel like a samurai

they are already dead they just dont know it yet

[quiet hearth]

Wait, I dont have time and faith maxed no wonder it's so painful

[brittle grove]

you are playing sentinel, everything is painful

[turbid dome]

shout out to the fire shaman fight, hate it on melee

[quiet hearth]

fireshaman fight?

[turbid dome]

the boss(es) of spirits of fire

[quiet hearth]

Im trying to remember which one this is?

[turbid dome]

its the 3 fire dudes and when one dies they turn into a giant damage AOE that stays till the end of the fight

[quiet hearth]

Also I think MS would be better because then I can eat armament stacks

[brittle grove]

Shout out to raja of the black sun. If you stun it once during a channeled skill, it will continue the channeled since and just start a new one

[quiet hearth]

so will nemmys

[brittle grove]

Until there is nothing left but an arena of one shots

Yeah but nemesis isn't as deadly. That fridging bird hits for 7k+ on all abilities

[quiet hearth]

Ive never had an issue with the bird, it's the smaller ones hurling balls of condensed hate at me

[brittle grove]

( after 36% less damage taken mind you)

You mean the mana donators ? Ez clap for screenwide ES

[quiet hearth]

i hate the light chickens, they deal way too much damage for how often they can spam that ability

[woeful ivy]

This isn't a VK helm, is it?

[quiet hearth]

manual screenshots

[alpine canopy]

It's a helm that works well for anyone that needs flat crit, that's mostly what it's used for

[quiet hearth]

But no, it's meant for mage

Also what toast said

[woeful ivy]

kinda what i thought. thank you.

[brittle grove]

check #👑┃item-showcase , draven, the amount of "i took a picture of my monitor" stuff is outstanding

[quiet hearth]

[turbid dome]

[cobalt blade]

farming for exalted helm on harton husk and this dropped...

desire censor

[viral dune]

Can I as a sentinel use other class relic for slam into an anchor to get non class specific affixes and use it? Or will it become class restricted?

[turbid dome]

idk if you can slam a different class's relic, but if you slam a class specific affix it gets locked to that class

[viral dune]

Yes, I know it is locked if the affix is specific to other class. I’m interested in general affixes like crit multi etc

[brittle grove]

you can use it, but as engi said, if you slam a class specific affix onto it it gets locked.
i slammed a mage relic onto my relic as sentinel just because it had t7 mana

[viral dune]

Thanks, exactly what I needed to know

[pearl warren]

is there any way to get devouring orb to proc void rifts without killing enemies? other than using abyssal echoes for the 45% chance

also, does the rifts of destruction node in the erasing strike apply to the rifts from devouring orb?

[alpine canopy]

Woah hold up, items only get class locked when you slam non-attribute class-specific affixes

[alpine canopy]

No. The rifts are subskills of whatever triggers them, so they only inherit stats from the skill that procs them

[pearl warren]

lame

trying to find a use for this shadow beacon with t7 void damage

[alpine canopy]

Like a totem build, kinda

[pearl warren]

thats what im levelling with rn

[alpine canopy]

and the explosion made by those abyssal orbs are void rifts, they excplicitly scale with void rift area, not sure if they scale with void rift damage (but they will scale with dev orb damage stuff just like normal subskills)

[pearl warren]

was trying to think of a way to take advantage of the erasing strike relocating the devouring orbs

there seems to be some sort of node in the devouring orb that makes it pulse a void rift every couple seconds without killing enemies

not sure which one it is cause i dont think it actually says anywhere that it does it

[alpine canopy]

That's just abyssal emission

[pearl warren]

but it doesnt shoot out an orb, it pulses

[alpine canopy]

if there are no enemies in range, the abyssal orb just kinda chills for a sec and then explodes

[pearl warren]

when theres no enemies around at least

huh

[woeful ivy]

running a similair build, if you take the point for duration you can have like 4 orbs up without have the points into charges

points*

[pearl warren]

do you know if the abyssal orbs scale off of void rift damage?

cause if they count as void rifts then ill want to take some of the left side nodes

[woeful ivy]

i do not but it has points that say it pulses "void rifts" faster

[pearl warren]

i may need to test it

[alpine canopy]

It should be easy to test with that ignite node, though that said you are probably best off scaling things that work on the orb itself and not just the rift it procs

like the void pen

[pearl warren]

yeah i was gonna take the void pen node and probably the duration node

and maybe either the ignite or the time rot nodes, forgot if one has more value than the other

[alpine canopy]

yeah, max out duration an abyssal orb frequency, void pen, and probably get the global void damage, and you've probably spent most of your points already

[pearl warren]

yeah probably

[alpine canopy]

if you have leftover points, I'd recommend rift area rather than rift damage (if the damage even works) since rifts are only 1/3rd of the single target damage on orbs

so like 20% more rift damage is really like 6.7% more damage per abyssal orb

[pearl warren]

wait what?

wdym a third of the single target damage?

like the damage of the devouring orb is split between the abyssal orbs?

[brittle grove]

Didn't know that either until a week ago. Asked in global chat in-game . They said yes. Tested it on a crap unique with LP and it did in fact not class lock it (my first test was a Primalist body on a unique body , could use it on sentinel, later did it with the example I used initially)

[alpine canopy]

Like, the abyssal orb does direct hit damage in addition to casting the void rift. The direct hit damage deals twice as much damage as the rift deals, so the rift makes up 1/3 of the total.

[pearl warren]

ohhh okay i got it

so better to just scale it off of added void spell damage and increased void damage and void pen and stuff

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, though I think there is one weird niche case where you can't slam a class-specific exalt onto a different class-specific unique, even if it doesn't have any class-specific affixes on it

[pearl warren]

so if i make this devouring orb build, how should i spec erasing strike? should i go for crit and damage? im not sure how much of a support skill it can be

[turbid dome]

you can void shred with it and use it for big healing

[pearl warren]

oh true

was thinking i might get void shred with the rahyeh blessing tho

[turbid dome]

I guess void beams work with magic damage?

[pearl warren]

i think they have a spell tag?

[turbid dome]

more shred chance = faster stacking of it

[turbid dome]

no idea never used them'

[pearl warren]

dont they require you to kill enemies to proc? kinda disappointing

[turbid dome]

for normal enemies yeah, for elites and bosses theres a node that makes it a chance on hit

[pearl warren]

oh right

[alpine canopy]

You can get cull on ES, as well as the sillie void beam (they did finally buff the beams, still probably junk, but at least it's a spell)

ES will probably do fine for clearing weak packs, too

[alpine canopy]

Yes, void spell DOT

[pearl warren]

so abyssal orbs are working pretty well so far, not sure how theyll fare in monos tho

gonna need a lot of cdr

also not sure if i should use a singularity or try to push the crit chance and multiplier to a reasonable amount, dont think theres any base crit chance nodes i can spec into

are there any items other than weapons and catalysts that give flat spell crit chance?

[turbid dome]

what weapon are you planning on using for this build

[pearl warren]

i got a good beacon

that two handed void mace, was trying to find a good use for it

i was thinking maybe i could use that one abyssal echoes node to spam void rifts from devouring orb

or just use abyssal orbs, but then the effect of the beacon is pretty much wasted

[pearl warren]

what kinda build would you recommend for that mace with t7 increased void damage?

[turbid dome]

oh wait right beacon

[cobalt blade]

4 tabs of T7 Exalted helm and still no Channel Cost

this seems strong but not for my build 🥲

[south ledge]

damn what an outcome for a 14 weaver ring

[chilly peak]

Serious question - if I'm warpathing at the same spot, is that considered as "moving" from the game?

[waxen nymph]

99% sure yes

Maybe you can test it with Lesson of Metropolis. If the Less Dmg Taken appear in your character sheet

[chilly peak]

"while moving" sadly does not show in the char sheet.

Tested with Metropolis boots and Argentus chest. Both don't show up, even when I really move

[chilly peak]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[chilly peak]

I could confirm it with Foot of the Mountain tho, I don't get ever stacks with warpath, even if I don't move.

You brought me kinda to the idea for this test, thanks!

[waxen nymph]

Oh yeah, good thinking

[tawny mauve]

Friendship with Aurelis/Multistrike ended. Dual Palarus/Vengeance is new best friend.

[turbid dome]

[woeful ivy]

is there a certain way you are supposed to setup VR for mana? i see it resets mana to whatever it was 2 seconds prior to use, however 7/10 times VR srews me

or maybe im just not seeing it right

[brittle grove]

if you use volatile reversal for mana restore you need a) a skill that can dump it quickly aka a very high mana cost skill and b) if you cant dump it quick enough the ancient reversal node in the skill tree for a bigger timewindow

[woeful ivy]

yeah i think the case is i dont consume enough

[brittle grove]

in combination with which skill are you using it and how hgih is its mana cost?

[woeful ivy]

i usually try to use it right after i cast ER

and echos

so about 60 mana for me

[brittle grove]

er?, do you mean erasing strike? or?

[woeful ivy]

yes

[brittle grove]

since yours only costs 60 mana i guess you arent playing mana stacker?

[woeful ivy]

whats that?

[cobalt blade]

Even with Ancient Reversal, VR cant refund me 100% mana 🥲

[brittle grove]

as the name says a build version where you stack as much mana as you can. anyhow. if you cant dump it quickly enough for volatile reversal, try the ancient reversal node and see if that helps you

[woeful ivy]

will do

[brittle grove]

are you playing non mana stacker erasing strike as well?

[cobalt blade]

Warpath Warrior's Fury

literally WWF

[brittle grove]

i mean. how da fridge would it refund 100% of mana if you run warriors furys, thaat dont make no sense, brother

[cobalt blade]

:>

make it higher than 5/5

ramp up mana faster

and then me finding reduced channel cost to counterplay it

[brittle grove]

[cobalt blade]

and the cycle continues

I play myself well

[brittle grove]

thats a big understatement there

[cobalt blade]

[turbid dome]

Yay math

[brittle grove]

if you want math, find out how slow my voidknight would be with max dilation stacks on warpath with event horizon

[quiet hearth]

The slowest I have gotten is about .57 AS

[turbid dome]

If you give me your character sheet sure

[cobalt blade]

day whom-shall-not-be-named.. still no channel cost on Leonine

[quiet hearth]

Son, it's just a day, your day if you will

[cobalt blade]

nice way to sink favor :>

[brittle grove]

dont have one yet, but i can make you a planner with the items i have / intend to use for it

[turbid dome]

@brittle grove

so 1 (base speed) -> 50% less from event horizon and 20% less from warpath channel

1 * .5 = .5 * .8 = .4 or -60% move speed

this is assuming a forum thread about warpath's movement speed reduction from 2022 is correct

[quiet hearth]

So slow still in 2022

[turbid dome]

you would need a LOT of movement speed to break even given those are both less multipliers

[brittle grove]

i thought so

man i wanna use event horizon, the concept is so cool

[turbid dome]

use it with rive + guaranteed crit erasing strike

rive to get all the stacks -> void cleave -> big bonk with the boots that stop you from dying mid erasing strike

[brittle grove]

but i'm already playing erasing strike

[turbid dome]

[brittle grove]

you mean the inevitable? the new best boots that replaced darkstride?

[turbid dome]

actually you might want darkstrides so you have some movement speed

[brittle grove]

for event horizon yes, for manastacker, no

[turbid dome]

are we not talking about using event horizon?

[brittle grove]

yes but i dont want erasing strike anymore, that was the initial point. but we digress. long story short : i need a t15 flat melee void dmg on my hammer to mitigate the movement speed problem, not mentioning the atk speed one

[turbid dome]

lol you can get to like a T14 with apathy's maw

[tulip shuttle]

bleed hammerdin or shield bash

[fringe flame]

you can't use void cleave with event horizon equipped.

[unborn cypress]

Is Bolster node on Smelters Wrath bugged? When I use it, i dont see my endurance increase. Does this mean that's it's broken or does it simply not show it?

[turbid dome]

I forgot that void cleave is stupid in regards to that

[alpine canopy]

It probably just doesn't show, but idk

[cursive rose]

it is bugged

gives armor not endur

so half bugged

[unborn cypress]

Aww that's too bad. It's a bad enough skill already lol

[cerulean sorrel]

any very good void cleave or erasing strike builds atm?

[alpine canopy]

Pretty sure yes, both are good skills. I wouldn't know any specific builds though (unless you count ravenous aura a VC build).

[cobalt blade]

I have sank 1m+ favor in search of leonine reduced channel cost. How do I mend this emotional dmg 🥹

[alpine canopy]

Years of therapy

[cursive rose]

smelters is pretty gross actually

it does need the endur tho you can have a ton of armor and still get blasted without it

and it would just have more synergy with items

[cobalt blade]

Father Toast the therapist?

[queen valley]

whats our best build looking like so far?

[quiet hearth]

I would riot

[cobalt blade]

No voice be heard for a solo riot lmao. I just need to not feel burnt-out Copium

[twilit valley]

Just had these boots drop , really nice ..

Will try and get t7 attunement on them

[cobalt blade]

Much wow, very magik

[hushed knoll]

if i turn smite into a traversal skill does it effect procs from throwing idols or melee attacks

[haughty canopy]

Yah it procs.. just that you don't port

Port on direct cast iirc

Got a turani... Zeus build viable?

[hushed knoll]

does it cost more mana on a proc or just on a direct cast?

[waxen nymph]

Just direct cast

[brittle grove]

why attunement , why 2lp ones are so rare

[tribal basin]

I don't think it's normal that a Void cleave on FG hits for over 200k right ?

[waxen nymph]

I mean why not?

What are you using?

Eternal Eclipse for exemple hits super hard

[tribal basin]

My profile is public, can take a look

[twilit valley]

Attunement gives Mana .. more mana the better for my build … around 51 extra mana

[brittle grove]

if you are playing mana stacker void knight, attunement is a waste, especially on those boots

[twilit valley]

Can you explain

Currently have 1200 mana

What stats would be better , I have another lp2 of the same boots

[turbid dome]

Wouldn’t you want health affixes instead? How much damage would 50 mana even add

[brittle grove]

if you want to slam certain items with just attributes, always think about what scales what and if there is a diminishing return effect :
for erasing strike mana stacker the scaling attributes are vitality (which effects the void rift, gives you HP and necro + poison resistance, so 3 things) and strength (which effects the bonk itself and gives you armour, so 2 things).
-> attunement doesnt scale anything and only gives you a bit of mana, of which you need 10 max mana for 1% crit multi, so you are only scaling 1 thing, which also has a diminishing return effect because crit multi doesnt do much if you base hit is bad

so over all, taking a look at how much you get out off each attribute for your skills is important, attunement is a waste on ES VK mana stacker, additionally other affixes would add so much more effect than that, e.g. health, movementspeed, experiment affixes etc

[flat linden]

does + damage work differently for melee compared to spells?
Was thinking about the rive skill that says physical, but still guides recommend to get + void damage

[brittle grove]

next to nothing, especially if you havent scaled your base hit

[turbid dome]

+melee void damage adds melee void damage to your melee attacks

This scales with stuff like % increased void damage (and not physical damage stuff even though rive is a physical skill)

Rive also has a node that doubles the flat added damage and % increased damage on your weapon (if it’s a twohander)

I don’t think you can add spell damage of a particular type through gear

[turbid dome]

That’s what I was thinking, plus to add to your vitality section, +8 hp per vitality is amazing for a prefix slot

[brittle grove]

@twilit valley here is my current build, which throws aberroth out of the world in a few hits
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/A6Wz8lGQ

[crude matrix]

Void Knight, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.4

Class:

Sentinel (20) / Void Knight (68) / Forge Guard (25)

General:

▸ Health: 3,957, Regen: 0/s
▸ Mana: 916.64, Regen: 12.48/s
▸ Ward Retention: 4%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 80 Str / 1 Dex / 1 Int / 1 Att / 66 Vit
▸ Resistances: 67% / 45% / 55% / 63% / 16% / 66% / 66%
▸ EHP: 14,290 / 10,436 / 11,259 / 20,703 / 14,290 / 12,447 / 12,447

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 60%, Threshold: 861
▸ Armor Mitigation: 70% (6,615)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 91%

Damage Types:

▸ Void / Spell, Melee, DoT

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Anomaly (20)
• Void Cleave (20)
• Erasing Strike (24)
• Abyssal Echoes (20)
• Volatile Reversal (20)

Used unique items:

• World Splitter
• Titan Heart
• Shattered Chains
• Siphon of Anguish
• The Inevitable
• Anchor of Oblivion
• Orian's Eye

[quiet hearth]

the ones always kill me on these things

[brittle grove]

wait, why is that an old version of my character??? is the planner thing bugged again

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BGOLnWxB

[crude matrix]

Void Knight, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.4

Class:

Sentinel (20) / Void Knight (68) / Forge Guard (25)

General:

▸ Health: 4,165, Regen: 0/s
▸ Mana: 866.37, Regen: 13.68/s
▸ Ward Retention: 4%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 68 Str / 1 Dex / 1 Int / 1 Att / 55 Vit
▸ Resistances: 72% / 56% / 66% / 55% / 34% / 60% / 60%
▸ EHP: 10,863 / 9,403 / 10,219 / 15,777 / 7,908 / 9,730 / 9,730

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 833
▸ Armor Mitigation: 70% (6,393)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 91%

Damage Types:

▸ Void / Spell, Melee, DoT

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Anomaly (23)
• Void Cleave (23)
• Erasing Strike (27)
• Abyssal Echoes (23)
• Volatile Reversal (23)

Used unique items:

• World Splitter
• Titan Heart
• Shattered Chains
• Siphon of Anguish
• The Inevitable
• Code of an Erased Sentinel
• Nihilis

[turbid dome]

Did you update the link

[brittle grove]

now it works

[turbid dome]

[turbid dome]

What

[brittle grove]

of course not, i just yoinked the old link, expecting it to update like poe ninja, which it is not of course

[turbid dome]

Given the build list link is just the code to plug into the build planner

Honestly it a cleaver solution to it

[twilit valley]

Ok thanks for the info , I’ll slam a new pair

[turbid dome]

Man I wish they would buff attunement

[twilit valley]

Ok great thanks

[brittle grove]

take the 2nd link, the first one is old and the 2nd one has a good amount of improvements

[twilit valley]

Ok thanks appreciate the help

Can kill abberoth easily your build ?

[brittle grove]

he doesnt finish his first slam

[twilit valley]

I’m struggling to find a lp2 titan . Looks like you got a nice titan there

[brittle grove]

that was an insane problem for me as well and took a very long time, i get the problem. but i have reached the point where i can facetank aberroth anyways with all the less dmg % taken and about 4500 hp

there is only 2 upgrades the build could reliably get at this point :

1. a 2LP nihilis to get void penetration as well
2. another 2LP inevitable to get the experimental affix with ward on traversal skill use instead of strength. thats it
   everything else is mad to think about

[quiet hearth]

That's my main issue with the new end game, it's just a wall, you can either jump it or you cant, needs more of a slope to it

[twilit valley]

Sorry to ask this question

Why do you take 3 points for shorter cooldown then take the node where there is no longer a cooldown .. Is this how it supposed to be .. sorry noob here

I figured you didn’t have to put 3 points into shorter cooldown if you choose the no cooldown node

[quiet hearth]

It's because EHG loves point taxes

[brittle grove]

the point is to increase the mana cost, check your world splitter, more mana cost = higher crit chance, thats the whole point of the build

[twilit valley]

What’s that mean sorry I’m confused

[twilit valley]

Ahh wow sorry and thanks for explaining

[brittle grove]

nothing to be sorry about, no worries

[twilit valley]

Brb checking your build

[quiet hearth]

EHG loves to make you spend points for things that invalidate the nodes right before them. Lunge has one too where you have to take 4 block nodes before the invuln node.

[brittle grove]

yeah but the 2 ES nodes he showed are on the opposite part of the tree, so it doesnt apply

[twilit valley]

Also why don’t you use seed of ekkidrasil

And do you ever have issues with single bosses harbingers at times with mana when it’s gets to 0 , sometimes my mana doesn’t go back up at times

[brittle grove]

why would i? the helm can screw you royally, if dmg is dealt to mana before HP, you can get in situations where you have no mana left to use ES and hence no way to recover your mana successfully, landing you in a 0 mana loop, imo it's the worst unique for the build

[twilit valley]

Like the void essence won’t kick in on single target at times

[brittle grove]

nope, never

[turbid dome]

Do you have 100% crit chance, or are you missing the ES?

[brittle grove]

thats most likely because you arent crit capped, since your mana cost of your ES isnt high enough if you dont have the hastened cataclysm node skilled

[twilit valley]

Ok thanks , I’m going to copy your build if that’s ok

Might take a few days

[twilit valley]

And why don’t you use seed of ekkidradil if I may ask

[brittle grove]

feel free to, thats why i post it openly, just a lot of stuff might be very hard to obtain (e.g. 2lp world splitter, the gloves and helmet AND ESPECIALLY THE RELIC)

[brittle grove]

#🔱┃sentinel message

[turbid dome]

Taking damage to your mana means you can end up with no mana and no way to get void essences

[twilit valley]

Ok yeah 👍

Wow I’ve learnt heaps here

[turbid dome]

[tribal basin]

I am almost sure now that Void Cleave might be bugged in some shape or form :/

[twilit valley]

Feeling better now - I was down ..

[turbid dome]

What’s up with it

[brittle grove]

thats what we here for

[tribal basin]

250k Crits on FG sound sussy

[brittle grove]

nah, sounds fine?

if you can link your planner i might be able to explain you how you get to 250k

[turbid dome]

With what gear is the real question

[tribal basin]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QWN2mD9A

[crude matrix]

Forge Guard, Level 98

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.4

Class:

Sentinel (20) / Forge Guard (76) / Paladin (15)

General:

▸ Health: 1,510, Regen: 23.72/s
▸ Mana: 256.13, Regen: 8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 44%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 72 Str / 5 Dex / 11 Int / 20 Att / 17 Vit
▸ Resistances: 69% / 196% / 14% / 167% / 36% / 141% / 124%
▸ EHP: 3,813 / 4,040 / 2,510 / 6,902 / 2,896 / 4,040 / 4,040

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 368
▸ Dodge Chance: 1% (20)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 70% (6,464)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 24%

Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical / Melee, Spell

Minion Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical / Melee

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Healing Hands (27)
• Void Cleave (27)
• Forge Strike (31)
• Sigils Of Hope (21)
• Smelter's Wrath (27)

Used unique items:

• Sword Catcher
• Swaddling of the Erased
• Advent of the Erased
• Phantom Grip
• Phantom Grip
• Death Rattle
• Code of an Erased Sentinel
• Throne of Ambition

[tribal basin]

Some of my gear doesnt even do anything

[brittle grove]

ok looking at your gear

yeah thats fridged up, you shouldnt even be doing 25k

[cobalt blade]

The same reason I dropped seed

[cobalt blade]

If only this work for warpath 🥲

[turbid dome]

Channel cost gaming

[cobalt blade]

[turbid dome]

[cobalt blade]

Cant say I dropped it when I didn't even have it in the first place but I removed it from my planner before I even farm for it cuz mana is my everything and I still have to summon sigil manually cuz Orian sun seal doesnt keep 5 stacks for me

[cobalt blade]

I hate and also adore you, Engi!

[turbid dome]

channel cost vs mana cost vs mana consumed is a fun lesson

[cobalt blade]

whr mana efficiency

[turbid dome]

mana efficiency isn’t one of the three ways to spend mana, it’s a modifier on the mana cost that uses the following formula

Mana cost = base cost / (1 + manaEffiency)

[cobalt blade]

me no hablo meths

[turbid dome]

100% mana efficiency = 1 in the formula and would cut the mana cost into half of the base cost

200% would be a 2 and would cut the mana cost into a 1/4 of the base cost

[alpine canopy]

Technically, the only way to spend mana is on mana cost

[turbid dome]

Yeah I totally didn’t spend 5 mins trying to think of the word to put there and then give up

[cobalt blade]

me understand the 100% but not the 200%

[alpine canopy]

but channel cost is affected by things that affect mana costs because reasons

[cobalt blade]

prophecy proc'ed and nth shows up

[turbid dome]

It’s affected by the stuff but it doesn’t count as a mana cost

[turbid dome]

Diminishing returns

[cobalt blade]

in unga bunga term, that translate into more is less

200% more efficient in using mana should nett you positive mana every time you use the ability

[brittle grove]

my filter is so strict i can do 1 million favour and not see anything from prophecies

[cobalt blade]

🫂 same

[turbid dome]

Bigger stick is better, but when stick really big, a little bigger not add that much

[cobalt blade]

I like this unga bunga explanation

[turbid dome]

[cobalt blade]

another one

https://tenor.com/view/dj-khaled-another-one-one-more-time-gif-4816107

[turbid dome]

Does that prophecy only give something when it’s done or on every progression

[cobalt blade]

uhh when it is done.. me dont get whats 'on every progression'?

[turbid dome]

Read the text of the pop up, your not finishing it when that message pops up

[cobalt blade]

well its 2/4 fulfilled now, and it drops every progression heh

17k favor going down the drain soon

[turbid dome]

Are you by chance hiding the helmets with your loot filter

[brittle grove]

engi, need i remind you, since PoE every ARPG player has lost the ability to read ?

[turbid dome]

Given that giant purple item beam

[turbid dome]

What’s reading? I get all my game knowledge through the voices in my head

[cobalt blade]

noh.. but I have it set to only show "Channel Cost"

[brittle grove]

i listen to audiobooks by chris wolcen

[turbid dome]

Your hiding every helmet that doesn’t have channel cost?

[cobalt blade]

Oh shiet i'm exposed

time to run

[turbid dome]

I should listen to audio books

[brittle grove]

you not doing that? my filter only shows t7 mana% helmets, nothing else

same for every other body part , 1 affix / slot at t7, everything else is hidden exalt wise

[turbid dome]

I let most T7s show up, mostly because I’m addicted to making builds

[brittle grove]

takes too much time to look at stuff, less time to bonk if you have to look at items, so if an item drops for me i know i have to pick it up

[turbid dome]

I have 400 build ideas an am not planning on stopping

[brittle grove]

i'm one of those people who at the end of a poe league only had mirror shard, mirror, headhunter and mageblood show up

[flat linden]

is this one good for leveling void knight? It's my first melee character so not quite used to the affixes/suffixes. I guess Rive is the go to skill?

[turbid dome]

Yeah dream thorn (even a 0lp one) will carry you to monos

[warped night]

fine for leveling, otherwise not notable

[cobalt blade]

if only I can exchange all these T7 increase mana Leonine with T7 channel cost Leonine

[turbid dome]

Wait is that stash actually organized

[warped night]

my stash is chaos

[brittle grove]

🔪

[warped night]

I just buy tabs and dump

[turbid dome]

Same, I have 3 tabs for idols, a tab for keys and them 80 dump tabs of pure chaos

The game gave me a search bar for a reason

[cobalt blade]

80 tabs of pure chaos

[brittle grove]

thats not a lot of money

[warped night]

now if only they allowed regex search

[turbid dome]

I need more tabs

[cobalt blade]

put excel in stash

[turbid dome]

Let me program my own sorting system

I can do it in Minecraft

[brittle grove]

if[bonkvalue>1] stash
else discard

[cobalt blade]

[warped night]

never discard. you might need that someday

[turbid dome]

[brittle grove]

nah fam, organize that stuff, no need for a spring cleanout if you keep your fridge clean

[warped night]

no need for spring cleanout if you keep buying more fridges

[brittle grove]

stuff will still get moldy tho

[turbid dome]

All my stuff is already 100% genuine void corrupted

[cobalt blade]

Never need that if you only play 1 char every cycle

[turbid dome]

It can’t get moldy

[cobalt blade]

when you look into the fridge, its void.. is there anything to look at?

[warped night]

legacy supremecy

[turbid dome]

Yes because it’s looking back at me and demanding I cook dinner tonight

[cobalt blade]

must taste purple or discard

[brittle grove]

the void can satiate your hunger, if only you'd let it in

[turbid dome]

According to my doctor I’m 106% void rn

[quiet hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[brittle grove]

as a doctor i can tell you, you need at least 400% in order for the void to satiate you

[turbid dome]

it’s cheating to count your echos

[quiet hearth]

I swear I will one day learn to read, over here crunching the numbers for this driveby build and just saw this

[turbid dome]

Wtf is that on

[quiet hearth]

literally on VC tree on the ignite node

[turbid dome]

There’s a fire section of void cleave?

[quiet hearth]

Which means eternal eclipse likely beats out aberroths sceptre

[turbid dome]

Why would I switch to a weaker damage type

[quiet hearth]

there's a whole fire conversion

[turbid dome]

Righto the part that lets you beat up your minions

[quiet hearth]

but this is literally the first node in the chain. I dont know if what Im theorizing works yet, but I think with the partial conversion, VC can proc both halfs of eternal eclipse

[waxen nymph]

Sure do

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

casually adding 400 flat

[turbid dome]

Big damage

[waxen nymph]

Who wants 400Flat Dmg

[turbid dome]

If only void cleave had foe reaver

[quiet hearth]

that %void to ignite pen likely will make EE beat AC. 240% on a max roll is 36% pen

[waxen nymph]

AC?

[quiet hearth]

aberroths command

AC may pull ahead if you focus on ravaging aura scaling as well though

[turbid dome]

Doesn’t rav aura just not scale really

[quiet hearth]

It does, just not that well, but having something to clear trash with without dumping your VC stacks over and over. Instant VC is so good when you have 4 charges and just drop like30 super ignites on a boss, and then the abysall echoes for each of them that echo 5 more times

And then of course you VR super boost them

Though after Vlad confirms that both parts of EE can be procced at once. Maybe I should focus on stacking armor shred and just bonking the crud vapors out of things

I have to admit, Sent gets more pen than pretty much anyone else I think

[turbid dome]

pen goes brrrr

[quiet hearth]

IT really do

Also, I found more VC super ignite tech

[turbid dome]

👀

[quiet hearth]

with min roll on EE, that's 10 ignite stacks with 50% pen every 2s

Though forge guard MIGHT be able to catch up

[turbid dome]

Why not use this on a forge guard

[alpine canopy]

It scales enough now that we have Aberroth's Command

[quiet hearth]

Because you can scale void damage to get free ignite pen

But again, FG using FS with all the free pen might be able to catch up

Also remember Engi...VK has ECHOES

[turbid dome]

Righto

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

So, imagine you get 40% echo chance, that is at least one echo on all four of your super igniting VC

so 40-50 ignites with at least 50% pen

[quiet hearth]

Do generic more multies from passives also boost the damage of ignites that attacks inflict?

[alpine canopy]

Yes

[quiet hearth]

That's what I thought

[alpine canopy]

Also, something that may affect your choices (or may not), I'm pretty sure AC disables VC's ability to be echoed. On the flip side, I'm not 100% sure if EE's buff also affects echoes of the attack that procs it, should be easy to test though.

[quiet hearth]

I dont think abberoths disables echoes

[turbid dome]

I would be shocked if it disabled echos without it saying it explicitly on the time

[quiet hearth]

Also, isn't it kinda odd we dont get a full fire conversion on forge strike?

[alpine canopy]

I'll respec my VK to have more echo chance and try it again. I haven't ever seen it echo though.

[turbid dome]

You don’t use fire to forge something, you hit it with a hammer

[alpine canopy]

Well, kinda first one, then the other

also still bummed that AC is the only new unique that doesn't have a 3d model

[turbid dome]

*the hitting the metal part of forging is you hitting it with a hammer

Yes the metal needs to be hot

[quiet hearth]

I want you to look me in the eyes and repeat that same sentence slowly

[turbid dome]

You don’t use fire to forge something, you hit it with a hammer

You use heat

[quiet hearth]

Heat comes from the fire engi, I am literally a blacksmith apprentice

We have truly lost him to the void

[turbid dome]

Looking at solarium I’m pretty sure they use lava instead of fire

[quiet hearth]

I angrily fix my bowtie at you

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

But seriously, why does it not get it? VC gets a fire conversion, which makes zero sense.

[alpine canopy]

I don't think you can really use lava to forge stuff, unless you're like reeeally careful

[turbid dome]

Counter point: magic

[alpine canopy]

Counter point: lava deals fire damage in LE

[turbid dome]

Also forging stuff by use of lava is awesome af

[alpine canopy]

[quiet hearth]

That makes even less sense in that case engi

[turbid dome]

I’ve already been at work for 7 hours today and it’s a Monday, making sense isn’t in my playbook

[quiet hearth]

You know what?! Completely fair my dude/dudette

[turbid dome]

I have 4 more hours

[quiet hearth]

Would the detonating ground subskill also inherit the shield base ignite chance, or is it a separate attack for that purpose I wonder

[alpine canopy]

It's a subskill of FS, should inherit all stats on the FS that procs it

[quiet hearth]

I guess it might be good for stacking ignites on bosses that dont move around much then

[alpine canopy]

So, very confident now that AC disables VC echoes

[quiet hearth]

Then that would be a bug

[alpine canopy]

I just used VC 20 times with 40% echo chance and got 0 echoes, which is a 0.003% chance of happening. Impossible to prove exactly, but close enough for me lol

[turbid dome]

You don’t have the movement node on Vc right?

Doesn’t that disable echos

[quiet hearth]

Yeah, I'd make a bug report on that, because there is nothing there listed would make it do that. Unless instant skills cant be echoed and we never got told.

[alpine canopy]

Right I don't have it because it's worse than a dead node on an AC build, and no that doesn't disable echoes

[turbid dome]

Fair enough

[alpine canopy]

I did equip a random 2h sword just for a sanity check and I got an echo in 2 tries

[turbid dome]

Are there any other instant skills in the game to test it with

[quiet hearth]

abberoth's is the only thing I know of that is instant

[alpine canopy]

VR and anomaly are the only other instants that match compatible skill types afaik - and both are excluded from echoing

[turbid dome]

Ah

[quiet hearth]

This is an ask the devs moment

[alpine canopy]

I reported it as a bug in game right after the test, AC should say that it prevents echoing if it's intended to do that

[quiet hearth]

100%

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-dogecoin-starship-troopers-dedcel-doge-to-the-moon-gif-21222005

[alpine canopy]

Because it makes VC even more "echoable", it is a melee attack that is not a movement skill, and it's not anomaly, therefore it should be echoable. Then also the VC tooltip specifically says it can echo (because normally it's a movement skill, so it's specifically made able to echo)

oh well, build still works great lol

for rav aura, anyway

[turbid dome]

But echo for more void shred

[quiet hearth]

or fire shred

[alpine canopy]

occasional 10% chance for +2 shred stacks is not going to affect my build

[quiet hearth]

Im actually seeing how much shred I can get right now, and honestly it's staggering for Sent

[brittle grove]

just checking : you arent running graviys edge, right? cause traversal skills cant echo

[alpine canopy]

No, and VC can echo as a traversal anyway

[waxen nymph]

@alpine canopy

Remember when we were talking about Sacrificial Embrace?

[alpine canopy]

Ah, explains then why it doesn't apply to the beam 😔

[waxen nymph]

Having to guess what is a subskill, what is not, is getting a bit annoying

So it probably means it's not scaling with any More Dmg from HH tree.

Meaning it's doomed to deal 0 dmg

[brittle grove]

i'm like, 75% sure it cant with gravitys edge. i have been running that node foe aeons and never seen it echo. also would contradict the explenation for echoes in the VK passive explenation, which clearly states traversal skills cant echo and thats why it is marked red in the skill node (imo at least / in my understanding)

[alpine canopy]

Sidenote, I went down the whole rabbit hole on ghostflame. It's easily sustainable, but you unfortunately much re-snapshot it at the start of every single echo, can't keep it up between transitions sadly.

So I threw away trying to use sac embrace on it, but it just deals very weak damage even snapshotting 99% more multi from death seal lol

[waxen nymph]

VC can echoes as a Traversal but the echo doesn't move and spawn at the beginning

[alpine canopy]

What Vlad said ^

Same as its normal echo behavior, always echoes from your start point, not where you moved to

[quiet hearth]

So Forge Strike has 6 stacks with 25% increased effect, Void Cleave with 6 stacks of increased effect, Abyssal Echoes 6 stacks with 100% increased effect AND can be cast 6 times with the screaming rift and shrieking echoes nodes, and finally vengeance 3 stacks with 100% increased effect per swing, you get the extra from the FG passive tree which is included in the amounts above.

[alpine canopy]

btw, it says "movement" skills can't echo, VC is a movement skill by default. It can only echo because it was specifically made to be capable of echoing (see description)

[brittle grove]

huh, still never seen an animation for it, a well, ES echo is the only thing you need anyways

[alpine canopy]

Depending on how far you go, it might be pretty far behind you - and if you don't spec into echo chance it's only 10% anyway

[quiet hearth]

I forgot about weapon shred adding to all this

If the affix says on hit, would that also proc on abyssal echo hits?

[alpine canopy]

If you specced abyssal echoes to hit, yes

[quiet hearth]

can armor go negative?

[alpine canopy]

Yes (all enemies have 0 armor unless you shred them)

[quiet hearth]

Even bosses?

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, there's no situation where enemies can have positive armor. At least, none that I'm aware of.

[quiet hearth]

I was not planning on doing this much math this morning

but that means add 5 more shred stacks to each of those numbers, fml I really need to make an excel sheet for times like these

[alpine canopy]

Diamond matrons get all the fun 😔

[turbid dome]

Armor going negative can be seen on your character sheet easily if you make an acolyte and turn poison aura into its armor shred version

[quiet hearth]

Oh no, I only care about on enemies

[turbid dome]

Ah

Well there’s a reason why rogue inflicting like 200 shred stacks is a little strong

And increased armor shred effect

[quiet hearth]

So, if my math is right, 11.5k negative armor in a single dump

[turbid dome]

Holy

[quiet hearth]

It'd be total jank, you have 4s to get all this done lol and some of it will be on CD afterwards but, whatever last big boom you get in there at the end is gonna hit like a truck

...I forgot that HH was in this set up

So that would proc on every hit that isnt Abyssal, though abyssal alone is putting in work

it's half the stacks in this combo

[turbid dome]

Is that 11k with increased shred effect

[quiet hearth]

Yes

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

Though now I wanna see how I could do this with just self casting abyssal because it gets a LOT of shred and effect

If you forgo vengeance in the previous set up you can add like 400% void shred on top of that

[turbid dome]

Wait doesn’t void shred cap at 10 stacks

[quiet hearth]

No idea, but the other is armor shred, wait, does armor shred cap?

[turbid dome]

Armor doesn’t, void does

[quiet hearth]

Good, good, and the void shred wont matter because it's 4 stacks per swing, and I doubt anything is gonna be alive after they've lost like 10k armor and then get whammed with an ES crit

[turbid dome]

Is there physical shred

[quiet hearth]

yep, actually I think that is what vengeance gives not armor shred

oh no it's armor AND phys, so my math is off

[turbid dome]

Ah yup vengeance and forge guard passive

And a blessing

[quiet hearth]

the blessing is meh

haven't looked at idols

[turbid dome]

True

LE tools says no idols

[quiet hearth]

Now this is going full send, so you could easily get like...5-6k shred without really investing too much

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

Another thing I want to look at is the Siege Barrage node in javalin now that you can pretty much get crit cap for nothing

I wonder if the use javalin after lunge works with that node lol

[cobalt blade]

[quiet hearth]

[cobalt blade]

but the FP abit low

[quiet hearth]

lel, like FP means anything, it's just gonna take 20fp on the first craft anyway

[cobalt blade]

[turbid dome]

Just make sure to roll that implicit

[cobalt blade]

[quiet hearth]

🪤

[cobalt blade]

[quiet hearth]

it's so easy to get that stat elsewhere vs the exact item you need lol

[cobalt blade]

welp gonna craft it after work tmr my time

well, the favor already sank

[turbid dome]

Yeah but I’m lazy and get like 105% from my hat

[quiet hearth]

then you wind up with no hat

[turbid dome]

Good thing it’s tied to my head

[quiet hearth]

[cobalt blade]

[turbid dome]

[sterile latch]

[forest basin]

@brittle grove damage from armor reduction on monsters is not linear. You do not get much benefits past 50 stacks of shred armor.

[waxen nymph]

Yes it does, iirc it cast Javelin at your cursor

[forest basin]

50 stacks gives you ~50% dmg increase and 200 stacks is 57%. Going super big on armor shred is usually not worth it. Physical it affects more.

[alpine canopy]

You do need to have a spear equipped to proc jav from lunge though

[quiet hearth]

I barely hit 60 stacks from what I saw earlier

[alpine canopy]

You can use the armor shred calc on TunkLab to know how much your shred stacks are doing for you (you can just multiply the # of stacks you apply by 1 + their increased effect to get the "effective stack count" for the calc)

[quiet hearth]

wth is tunklab

[turbid dome]

https://lastepoch.tunklab.com

It’s a bunch of calculators, I thought that’s how you calculated it before

[quiet hearth]

No, I used calc and notepad

[alpine canopy]

It has handy calcs for game mechanics, also it has blessing drop rates and a bestiary (in addition to a lot of the stuff LE Tools has)

[quiet hearth]

lol, according to this, just ONE cast of abyssal echos with the repeat nodes and shred, is 25% more phys dmg, and 18% more ele

now I gotta go check my math

So 100% shred effect just means double stacks in this calc right?

[turbid dome]

I believe so

[quiet hearth]

so one cast with screaming/shrieking is 30 stacks effectively then. wow

[brittle grove]

why do you ping me with that

[forest basin]

Misclick I have fat thumbs

[brittle grove]

understandable, have a nice day

[alpine canopy]

Yes

[quiet hearth]

So if you have some shred on hit, you essentially can hit the diminishing returns cap with ONE cast of abyssal xD

[alpine canopy]

at 30 stacks, you've still got a ways to go before hitting the metaphorical wall

[quiet hearth]

that was without any other shred being added in. A 2h shred you can get 11 per pulse, you get 6 pulses, that is 70, doubling that is only like 11% more

ngl I thought it would be a little more

I say like 80% isnt almost double phys dmg alone

Umm, I cant help but feel some text is wrong here LEtools

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

I gotta see what it says in game now

it gives nothing in game apparently

[alpine canopy]

Looks right to me

(LE Tools is correct, a lot of skills that have no user-facing info have placeholder text on them like that. idk why they have text at all, but oh well.)

[turbid dome]

the design of a skill probably requires that on the programming side so they just put something in there in the same way web dev uses lore ipsum

[unborn cypress]

What's the point of the affix "x damage type taken as physical" when you could use that affix slot for "x resistance" instead?

[turbid dome]

armor is more effective against physical hits

[twilit valley]

Hey bro you here ?

Finally a lp2 , what’s best stats to try and hit with

Void melee damage and what else

[turbid dome]

manafused?

[brittle grove]

It's only 0.3% on the crit role. So flat crit is mandatory and still won't hit crit cap

A 0.3 % world splitter 2 LP is less worthwhile than a 0.5% 1lp

[twilit valley]

Yeah I noticed , so flat crit is melee critical strike chance stat

[brittle grove]

Try and get flat melee crit and flat melee void (melee void t7) on it. If you don't hit both affixes, a 1lp 0.5% is better with just flat melee void

[brittle grove]

Yes

[twilit valley]

Ok thanks

Yeah don’t have .. wow this is harder than I thought

The grind is real !!!

[alpine canopy]

Yeah I'm sure the description etc. are mandatory, but as the programmers, they can put whatever they want, like an empty string or something

[twilit valley]

So where yours shows 29% , is this 100 or is it a hidden stat

Sorry noob here

[alpine canopy]

LE Tools can't account for the flat per mana cost stat

[brittle grove]

That is for all melee attacks. This does not take the flat melee you skill in the ES tree into consideration, nor what you get from world splitter

[twilit valley]

Which node is the ES tree name

Prophets onslaught

[brittle grove]

You get 9% from prophets onslaught
Another 41.25% from world splitter if you have a 0.5% one
On top of your base crit

[twilit valley]

Wouldn’t that take you to like 80 only

[brittle grove]

Not if you throw in a bit of increased crit chance
And for reference why the crit roll on world splitter is so necessary
ES costs 82.5 mana if skilled correctly
With a 0.5% roll you get 41.25% flat crit
With 0.3 you only get 24.75%

That's 16.5% difference, which is a T7 flat crit affix

[twilit valley]

Ok thanks , would the build still work ok if you get around 80 to start until you find a better weapon to slam

Also noticed your res is very low , is this a problem ever or it doesn’t matter

[brittle grove]

Well yes. But on bosses you have an increased chance to run out off mana. Try getting some increased crit chance to mitigate that

[twilit valley]

Ok

[brittle grove]

I'm Res capped on everything except void. Planner just can't really show it. And void is low cause I had orians eye. But with 4.5k life and instantly getting full life back with 1 attack it doesn't matter on void hits

[twilit valley]

Ok great thanks for the info , I’m off for a 8 hour tattoo session to finish my legs off .. I’ll be back to ask more questions later . Thanks for all your help soo far

[dusk raptor]

Have anyone tried Paladin with direct casting Smite (with electrify DoT) build?

[alpine canopy]

No, though it does have its appeals I always end up going jav or multi to proc smite because there's so much more synergy.

[tired jackal]

Does Void Penetration on a 2hander work for Foe Cleaver (rive)

[waxen nymph]

Penetration is neither an Add Dmg Stat or Increase Dmg

So I want to say no

[tired jackal]

Yeah thats what I figured. Was looking at someone's build and thought it was weird.

[waxen nymph]

Its still a usefull stat if you deal Void Dmg

[grizzled arrow]

FG what would be the best ring to slam on this ring

like what would give the most dmg

[waxen nymph]

For Forge Weapons ?

[grizzled arrow]

yeah

[waxen nymph]

If you ignore the bug with that ring probably Minion Dmg and Attunement

[grizzled arrow]

bug?

[waxen nymph]

"The Stats on your Gloves blah blah blah"

[grizzled arrow]

ah that

[waxen nymph]

Turns out its the stats on all your equipement

Shield, Armor , Rings etc

[grizzled arrow]

wait so its way stronger than it should be?

[waxen nymph]

Yes

It will get fix one day though

[grizzled arrow]

aww that a pain i had no idea i was offline with no net when i found these rings and thought id play it when i got online i just thought it was not displaying the glove stats

[waxen nymph]

I am not sure I understand what you mean

"Not displaying the gloves stats" ?

[grizzled arrow]

like if the gloves have critical strike chance its not showing the increase to minions

[waxen nymph]

Yeah, I dont expect that to ever show up

[grizzled arrow]

i mean phantom grip is a new item is it not?

[waxen nymph]

Yes

But the character sheet is old

[grizzled arrow]

maybe its dev entry log No.4473991

can i post a build i am using if its not mine i want to find out if the build is taking advantige of this bug?

[waxen nymph]

Yeah sure

[grizzled arrow]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/ALvqm9kB

[crude matrix]

Forge Guard, Level 93

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.2

Class:

Sentinel (21) / Void Knight (5) / Forge Guard (71) / Paladin (9)

General:

▸ Health: 2,758, Regen: 140.66/s
▸ Mana: 213.99, Regen: 8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 32%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 21 Str / 1 Dex / 8 Int / 25 Att / 21 Vit
▸ Resistances: 106% / 71% / 71% / 123% / 109% / 93% / 77%
▸ EHP: 5,678 / 5,464 / 5,464 / 8,142 / 5,678 / 5,678 / 5,678

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 552
▸ Armor Mitigation: 59% (4,077)
▸ Block Chance: 11%, Mitigation: 20% (220)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 13%

Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical, Void / Melee, Spell

Minion Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical / Melee

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Forge Strike (22)
• Warpath (21)
• Volatile Reversal (21)
• Healing Hands (21)
• Void Cleave (21)

Used unique items:

• Apathy's Maw
• Phantom Grip
• Death Rattle
• Code of an Erased Sentinel

This build has a guide:

Forge Guardian Minions - Forge Guard | 1.1 Build Guide by Andrue2

[grizzled arrow]

it prob is

[waxen nymph]

I mean, they have the ring so wether it is intentionnal or not they are using it

[grizzled arrow]

true i was just thinking that could be the case as its unavoidable

[waxen nymph]

Its still a very nice build they have

Nothing wrong there

I dont like Warpath for generating FW

Not sure what you are using but Multistrike feels much better to me

Warpath is too slow to generate and every time you interrupt the channel you start again the current spawn

[grizzled arrow]

i thought warpath was the only skill that gave it outside of forge strike

[waxen nymph]

Look at Multistrike bottom left part

[grizzled arrow]

i dont like not moveing tho

will check it on my offline clycle build as he is arleady 70+ and also a forge guard

[waxen nymph]

I am watching the video from the planner you sent

The guy doesnt seems to be aware of the bug

[grizzled arrow]

thats good if true as i hate takking advantige knowing of somethig

like i was a necro when some build could get like 300k ward but i never did that build

[waxen nymph]

I think the biggest abuse of this I saw was using Peak of The Mountain Helmet to get FW crit capped

[grizzled arrow]

but due to that my build got nerfed due to some other build using it

it makes you hit the ground so much harder when it gets patched

[waxen nymph]

Yup

[grizzled arrow]

to me its no differnt from cheating its like way back in cod 4 in a party game we used to play hide and kill and it was always fun when someone was hiding in those areas you cant find

but would never do it online vs players

i hate quickscoping i stoped using snipers altogether as i would hate people thinking i was using it even tho i was not so i just stoped

[waxen nymph]

Btw (still watching the video) he mention smth thats wrong
He is using Apathy Maw and then say "we want Inc Minion Phys Dmg because thats what they do"

With his setup, the FW are doing 50% Void Dmg (the Flat Void from Apathy) and the Flat Melee is split in 50% Phys and 50% Fire since they have both tags

[grizzled arrow]

maybe he does know as i have looked at that axe and just thought it was for warpathing to get the procs

[waxen nymph]

So roughly 50% Void, 20% Phys 30% Fire

[grizzled arrow]

as i dont have one i dont know

[waxen nymph]

A little bit more Fire because of a node inside Forge Strike

[grizzled arrow]

i have been trying 11 rolls i have had to get a maw and not a single one

[grizzled arrow]

its like when my internet was off i started plaing offline as i had not started this new content and i loved all of these nem's i was finding then when i go online i felt i was getting less turns out i was pre patch without knowing

i manaeged to get 2 +2 phantom grips before i hit lv20

[grizzled arrow]

im sure if he knew he would also use the helm use said

[stuck delta]

Hello, im starting cycle with sentinel, any builds for void knight or forge guard and which is better in your opinion

[grizzled arrow]

my choice was made when i was offline and got a item called phatom grip so i made a new toon and made it a forge guard

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/search?query=phantom grip&in_description=1&exact_match=0

at pvt vlad dont know if im allowed to or not meant to unless its important so will do a psudo ping i think im going to start a new build as i feel im going to be a lot weaker when ti changes

[stuck delta]

is rive void knight good build?

[grizzled arrow]

3 older builds that use rive

https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/filter/skill=rive1&mastery=void_knight

maybe there is a rive based build on maxroll

[waxen nymph]

You can ping me, I am not a member of EHG 😉

I am an "empowered" user

[grizzled arrow]

still always best to make sure i was friends with a mod on a different server and she told me of when i pinged her but not when i pm her so since then i thought its just best to ask

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/void-knight-leveling-guide https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/rive-void-knight-guide

have the same htt p but they are 2 builds but it looks like one is not for endgame and is just early

[waxen nymph]

@stuck delta
Vk > Rive, Erasing Strike Warpath for Melee. Hammer/Smite, Ravaging Aura/Abyssal Echoe for Spell
FG > Forged Weapons (Dot or Hit) , Smelter Wrath Crit (this one might be bug so be careful), Bleed Forged Strike, Hammer/Smite Ignite

[grizzled arrow]

not a fan of volitile reversal

[waxen nymph]

Oof

It's the glue that hold Sentinel dmg together

[grizzled arrow]

it does dmg?

[waxen nymph]

Devouring Orb?

[grizzled arrow]

i just use healing sigle

sorry was in the middle of posting when you said about the skill

if it has no cof or mg can i sell it in mg?

[waxen nymph]

Yes

[grizzled arrow]

i wonder if its worth anything to anyone

[waxen nymph]

Not really but
It gives "Increased Dmg Taken", thats like a More Dmg. It can goes up to 180% for DoT. So x2.8 for DoT
It gives Ms, As, Cs

[cobalt blade]

Also the glue that drown me in big aoe death and dots

[waxen nymph]

Skill issue
Git gud

[cobalt blade]

[grizzled arrow]

im sure it is a skill issue but im not going to change now as im going to be using a new build soon that does not use phantom grip

[waxen nymph]

I use it in the most simple way
Stay next to the boss, count to 3, press VR so I don't move

[grizzled arrow]

as im using warpath im always moveing

[cobalt blade]

If only my warrior fury warpath can finish ramping in 3s

[waxen nymph]

You can be moving in the same spot

[cobalt blade]

And then tank harbinger looks at you

[stuck delta]

erasing strike is a spell?

[cobalt blade]

Big void melee bonk

[chilly peak]

Basically what you say!

But as someone who has already 3 Pallys this cycle, with different VR duration, I can't count how often I killed myself with it 🙈

[waxen nymph]

I think I put in the Melee section

[turbid dome]

Part of it is a spell

[cobalt blade]

Engi!

[turbid dome]

Get Wicked!

[cobalt blade]

[turbid dome]

A tragedy of the timeless day

[cobalt blade]

not the worst but still

glyph of hope didnt even proc once

[turbid dome]

Gamba moment

[turbid dome]

[cobalt blade]

another

[turbid dome]

Ignoring everything but the void cleave still makes it decent

[cobalt blade]

[queen valley]

Doing a bleed build pally, have all my resists capped but still seem to be very squishy. 1.2k hp still gathering gear. Smites keeping me alive but can get 1 shot pretty easy. Following the build on maxroll. I have the shield and bleeding heart, what other main items will help my survivability?

Them fps drops hit hard even with a 4090 and even a split second I can be killed at 100 corruption 😂 lvl 81 atm

[turbid dome]

Are you generating ward with that

[queen valley]

Nah no ward

[turbid dome]

I’d personally aim to increase your life then, 1.2k is low

IMO like 2.3k minimum, 3k+ ideally

[queen valley]

Roger that. Getting up the ranks in merchant guild so should be able to get some pieces to get the hp up

[turbid dome]

Easiest way to boost your life is body armor with vitality, flat life, %life on it

have one be exalted (ideally the %life)

[queen valley]

Roger, cheers

[turbid dome]

Extra tip: make sure to have either crit avoidance or reduces bonus damage taken from crits capped at 100%

Sentinel gets the leonine great helm that gives up to 85% reduced so it’s great for this defensive layer

[quiet hearth]

I dont like how certain types are the must have, they need to do another pass on the bases

[turbid dome]

Yeah, I want to use a terror crown, but 85% of a required defense is too good to pass up

[quiet hearth]

Give us a % of armor also reduces dmg from critical hits passve

[turbid dome]

And I don’t really want to use a slam slot on my twohander for crit defense

[quiet hearth]

Yeah, Ive noticed a definite shift in weights on items since we got that slot

[turbid dome]

Honestly a lot of class specific armor needs a rework

see mage armor that has basically no support for spell blade

[quiet hearth]

Boost the low bases and just make it so they cant roll above certain values until higher level zones, simple. Suddenly those stat helms, or skill boosting body armors are competitive.

[alpine canopy]

Mage armor looks pretty generic to me, I didn't have any trouble picking stuff for my SB. The crit avoid one is nice for pure defense

[turbid dome]

My point is more that’s a fairly low level base, they don’t have a regalia or other high level base armor

[alpine canopy]

but yeah, sent's top tier bases are real dominating

[alpine canopy]

It's got the highest armor value, level req doesn't really matter

[turbid dome]

That’s fair

[magic panther]

til Warpath and Eye of Reen do not work together. 😦

[quiet hearth]

Not anymore no

[magic panther]

Tis a shame, was looking forward to being a fiery whirligig of doom.

[waxen nymph]

imo its a bug

[alpine canopy]

It'ss kinda sad because they disabled it to nerf shadow daggerss

[quiet hearth]

Im pretty sure they specifically called it out with the Reen change

[chilly peak]

I play the same build. Dropped Bleeding Heart for the Vadyrs (?) relic which made me insanely tanky. Have a little over 3k tho

[magic panther]

Nah, its a channeled skill, so affects that require melee attack etc only trigger on the first hit.

[quiet hearth]

They literally just changed it this patch

[waxen nymph]

Its doesnt say " on use"

It just says you need a direct melee attack

[quiet hearth]

Only the initial hit on WP is considered a direct melee attack. It's the same thing with the bonk hammer.

[waxen nymph]

Warpath is a direct melee attack

[magic panther]

it'd be on hit if it was to trigger multiple times

[quiet hearth]

So unless you start and stop, it's not gonna work

[alpine canopy]

Good point, yeah seems like it should work for every crit as long as you're directly using

[waxen nymph]

?

Bonk Hammer ?

[quiet hearth]

The uber pen hammer I cant htink of the name right now

[turbid dome]

Event horizon

[quiet hearth]

^

[queen valley]

Still waiting for that and the boots to drop 😥

[magic panther]

imo, make warpath a 2-3 second duration ability for its channel, that way it can still trigger abilities like that, with some frequency. I get why it wont work for every hit, cmon its broken as heck lol.

[waxen nymph]

This one says "on use"

[turbid dome]

Nope no healing hands with warpath, illegal

[waxen nymph]

So its normal

[chilly peak]

Do you play the Unique shield, if you follow that guide?

[quiet hearth]

I would have just done a reduced effect of it on abilities like that, instead of just removing the functionality. But for all I know it's an engine limitation.

[magic panther]

yup, its not a bug, its an intended change. but man, my little heart when I was like ooh this looks great for warpath, built a level 70 char and it doesnt work.

[queen valley]

Yeah I just got the shield earlier today

And I run a ring that keeps all 4 sigils up all the time

[magic panther]

Now, using it for Rive.. it ends up pretty gnarly. But my tornado of doom -sad-

[quiet hearth]

It's Rive, it literally doesn't matter WHAT you do with it, Rive is arguably the best skill in the game.

[chilly peak]

I dropped it for an exalt the other day. 90+ Block (100 with perfect equip) is worth it.

Dmg should be fine enough if you have decent stuff

Should have answered, this was @queen valley

[turbid dome]

Doubling damage stats on a two hander is busted

[magic panther]

mostly for the attack speed really

[turbid dome]

Plus an 80% echo chance

[quiet hearth]

Being able to get dmg from building vit is just silly too

[queen valley]

Yeah my damage is pretty decent, eve without the boots and relic, just defensive side I need to work on tomorrow

[quiet hearth]

Speaking of that, WHY IS THERE A DEX TO DMG ON SWORDS EHG?!

Stop trying to make off class stats on skills happen, you're better than that.

[turbid dome]

Man I love getting 1 flat void damage, %more void damage, 8 hp, 1% poison and 1% necrotic res from each vitality

[queen valley]

Found a +3 smite item I put up for sale for a 35 mil so should be cashed up to buy some better stuff after that 😂 was only like 4 of them for sale the the cheapest was 200mil. Hope I wake up to a sale 😂

[quiet hearth]

The void is the enemy, but man the employee care plan is baller

[turbid dome]

I have dental

[quiet hearth]

The market is broken due to a gold bug earlier in the league sadly

[turbid dome]

I do want to try a dex stacking physical rive vk

With the +melee dmg when using a sword sentinel affix

[quiet hearth]

Dex with a 2h sword is just weird

[turbid dome]

Leviathan carver my beloved

[turbid dome]

Time to add evasion to my defensive layers

[quiet hearth]

Or convert it to armor in FG

[waxen nymph]

Be a FG, change Evasion to Armor

[queen valley]

So I have a good chance of it selling then 😂

[turbid dome]

Even when doing pure phys your not getting me to not play vk

Mostly because 80% echo chance

[quiet hearth]

I think that is the ONE thing Rive cant do, throwing stuff

[turbid dome]

It has a node to shoot sword beams so that’s kinda throwing

If you don’t think about it too much

[waxen nymph]

Technically

[quiet hearth]

That thing is so terrible

[turbid dome]

[queen valley]

What sort of corruption can the bleed build get up to?

[waxen nymph]

Its great to get Fire/Phys Shred for almost free

[quiet hearth]

it's so easy to get shred

I saw that edit Vlad

[turbid dome]

[waxen nymph]

Sometimes I tap "enter" and I am like ... You did not finish your sentence dude

[turbid dome]

My brain thinks faster than my hands can type

[cobalt blade]

Fat finger > finish sentence

[magic panther]

my pinky likes to hit enter instead of shift sometimes

[turbid dome]

On my phone I somehow hit the . Button a lot instead of the space bar

Also who else just makes up lore as you play through Last Epoch

[quiet hearth]

why did no one tell me there was a 150% more dmg node in hammer throw

[magic panther]

I try sometimes.

[waxen nymph]

Because I believe its locked behind the Chain nodes

And everyone love Spin Hammers

[quiet hearth]

it's not tho

[turbid dome]

I don’t want to think about stun

[chilly peak]

Did 600c bosses yesterday (facetank still). Did not test the limits yet

[waxen nymph]

Oh its right before !

[quiet hearth]

Yeah, and FG gets that nice 100% more stun chance passive

[waxen nymph]

Hum

[quiet hearth]

man, I wish I could have been in the room when they confirmed the shield breaker node. 6 shred stacks for 18 mana cost on each attack?!

[magic panther]

hmm, think I want to try a direct cast void smite build.

[quiet hearth]

Time and Faith is your friend for that

[magic panther]

yup

[quiet hearth]

That passive is absolutely dumb and I love it

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

The fact it also applies to Rive is likely the worst decision made balance wise

[magic panther]

lol

[quiet hearth]

it procs on each swing, not each full rotation

[chilly peak]

Is there a way in LE tools to visualize the effects of SoH, guess not, or?

[quiet hearth]

SoH?

[chilly peak]

Sigils of Hope

Sorry, thought that was common

[quiet hearth]

It is, Im just kinda dumb until past 12pm, then I forget how to read.

[turbid dome]

There might be a slider for it under conditions/buffs

[quiet hearth]

I dont think there is

[turbid dome]

Darn

[chilly peak]

I couldn't find, that is why I'm asking. But me not finding it, does not mean it is not there. I know myself 😄

Find it kinda sad, cause I'd say that is not a minor impact in some cases.

[quiet hearth]

omg, I need so many extra points for this hammer throw nonsense

[chilly peak]

Hammers are great! Sooo much style!

[turbid dome]

It’s probably not there because it can provide a lot of different buffs

[quiet hearth]

Im theory crafting a stun hammer thing right now

[turbid dome]

I hope they add in the custom modifiers section soon, then you could just simulate the sigils

[quiet hearth]

150% more dmg to stunned, and 100% chance to deal dbl dmg

[turbid dome]

Add some echos

[waxen nymph]

The problem with Dmg to Stunned is the higher you go the less you stun

[quiet hearth]

I'm FG, no echoes

[chilly peak]

Have 2 Hammer chars this cycle already, and still tempted to make a third.

I'm tempted too, to see where Stun/Crit Hammers would end up ^^

[turbid dome]

Ok but like what if void knight

[quiet hearth]

I stun all the time with the AllDoT build

VK can't hit crit cap like FG can

[turbid dome]

😭

[quiet hearth]

I mean, it MIGHT at high investment but Im no hammer expert

can hammers chain if they are spiraling?

[brittle grove]

g'day fellow void knights

[cobalt blade]

[waxen nymph]

Let me test it ingame

I believe it doesnt but I dont know which one has priority

[quiet hearth]

I think spirals

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

I would love for it to, that would be total eye cancer to watch

[turbid dome]

Dealing damage to your own eyes is part of the fun

[waxen nymph]

👀👀👀👀👀👀

[chilly peak]

Every ARPG, always 🙂

[waxen nymph]

They do both !