💀┃acolyte

[obtuse quest]

You'll be unkillable while in ghostflame, but you won't be doing much else while in ghostflame

[wise leaf]

i guess i will using it mostly as a defensive tool, im mainly wondering if the fissure + witchfire dmg will be enough

not sure if you can make ghostflame do enough damage without taking the domain of agony node?

[obtuse quest]

Enough for clear. Questionable for bossing.

Such is the life of using witchfire.

[wise leaf]

ok thats fine for me, prefer it over bossing

i was also thinking of doing a minion version with zombie ring + infectious bones in AOD + vomit zombies, not sure if thats viable in any way

[prisma smelt]

okay thanks !

[uneven grail]

@wise leaf That is my current build. As Kzb says, i'm unkillable at 700c, but killing bosses is longer.
However, it is a lot of fun and a chill build : 2 clicks, perma ghostflame, easy to kill packs of mobs. Love it
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Qdz29bE3

[stuck owl]

Warlock, Level 100

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (10) / Warlock (83)

General:

▸ Health: 2,315, Regen: 0/s
▸ Mana: 501.21, Regen: 32.24/s
▸ Ward Retention: 282%, Regen: 82/s
▸ Attributes: 22 Str / 38 Dex / 97 Int / 22 Att / 36 Vit
▸ Resistances: 131% / 121% / 152% / 146% / 143% / 237% / 131%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 26%, Threshold: 463
▸ Dodge Chance: 30% (1018)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 46% (2,748)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 72%

Used skills:

Ghostflame / Aura Of Decay / Chthonic Fissure / Transplant / Bone Curse

[wise leaf]

thanks for sharing! looks really nice and totally forgot about the relic affix

[inland ledge]

Fellow acolytes, I'm making a lich alt next and have never "naturally" levelled a lich without the maxroll acolyte leveling guide. What are some alternative leveling paths I could take to explore the class more, I'm not quite fond of fissure and infernal shade.

[obtuse quest]

Yeah er, good luck.

The old "spirit plague as clear and find a good single target skill" might work but it's leagues behind a good leveling build (That you're not fond of)

[inland ledge]

Yeah in general all of the options felt clunky. With infernal shade/fissure in particular I can't for the live of me figure out what's dealing damage or how much the damage is delayed, making me zone out quite fast from the whole experience.

[obtuse quest]

For infernal shade, iirc it's the explosions when it expires/target enemy dies

For fissure it's just everything. It causes torment, some hit damage, the fissure itself does DoT, you can make it cast chaos bolts, it's how warlock works in a perfect nutshell

Even lich sometimes does stuff like this, cast one thing that procs two or three other things.

Other than the fact that fissure is just peak acolyte skill, lich leveling suffers from Early reaper form pains.

[inland ledge]

I'm so bothered by it that I"m tempted to just homebrew a maxed leveling guide, but I have a sense I'd just be staring down the abyss 😄

[obtuse quest]

Considering that people tried to solve lich leveling for years....

[inland ledge]

Man is it really that bad 😄

[obtuse quest]

Take a wild guess why most of us said "JUst warlock it for leveling"

[inland ledge]

It's my alt mind you so I have no problem twinking the heck out of it.

[kind mist]

I just recently levelled with a full poison setup with hungering souls as the main damage skill with exactly 3 minions for 150% more from unholy trinity. Reaper form was hardly ever up until like close to monos but other than that damage was great

[obtuse quest]

You'll still get similar answers.

[obtuse quest]

With preserverance or no?

Cause that sounds it'll have as much potential damage as the spirit plague setup

[kind mist]

nah but that woulda been a good idea

[obtuse quest]

Which, it works sure, but is leagues behind whatever the actual leveling setups can do

[eager agate]

Is there any lich builds that can do uber with flay? I was thinking maybe lich can benefit well from traitors tongue got a bunch of em lying around

[obtuse quest]

Mana flay is iirc the sanest way to do uber on Lich

It's also Lich's strongest setup.

[eager agate]

any builds out there i could get ideas from?

[obtuse quest]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/flay-mana-lich-guide

Heed the warning, not enough gear=plays like ass

[eager agate]

this is probably useless to slam on a 3lp traitor but part of me wants to 😂

[night hemlock]

Even with gear I am not a fan

I find Lich to be so clunky

[inland ledge]

Sigh, I might just bite the bullet and level reflect

[obtuse quest]

Try it out yourself, and understand why it hurts the way it does

[inland ledge]

Sure, I'll do just that.

Let's spend 30mins naming the damn thing

[night hemlock]

your name<_S4

Done XD

[wintry flame]

Lich leveling isn't that bad, it's just pick a skill and do poison overload lmao

[night hemlock]

Leveling in general is very easy if you know what you're doing

The campaign isn't difficult

[wintry flame]

yupp this is true. I just don't feel there is a truly bad experience unless you just don't like a playstyle, which makes sense and most will get to 60-70 fairly quickly which is the threshold for most builds to come online

[sonic wind]

Laughs in harvest leveling

[inland ledge]

I'm leveling with harvest xD

[sonic wind]

I'm sorry for your loss.

[inland ledge]

Man harvest blows

[inland ledge]

Well I got past the main hurdles 😄

[noble flame]

How's Flickering Shadows for clear this season? I was thinking of swapping over for a change of pace

[still scroll]

I play the fissure chaos bolt Witchfire this season. gmso much fun to see everthing burn

[pallid geyser]

I jsut want to point out for other acolytes farming oemns, were liek 3 of them at once, this ward on kill with cast speed holy molly so much ward so good for farming these

[sick belfry]

the what sir?

[noble flame]

Infernal Shade + Flickering Shadows. It's very item dependent. Usually built on Necromancer IIRC.

[muted mist]

If it has good AOE and it scales well with gear, then it should be pretty decent this patch.

[rocky flame]

does added spell damge that is not minion spell damage affect the zombie's explosion damage?

and I want to build an Explosive zombie but kind of comfused

most minion DMG node are in the Necromancer Tree

but for Skill that can combine with zomebie then most of it are in Warlock tree

So which one suit the Explosive zombie better?

[noble flame]

Zombie explosion is minion damage. The Sacrifice is yours

[muted mist]

Necromancers, Liches, and Warlocks can all use zombies effectively, but the build that I am aware of with the strongest zombie explosions is a warlock build using Profane Veil. The play style is quite clunky but the explosions are absurd

[steady mist]

whats the easiest acolyte build?

minions?

[pearl snow]

Depends on your definition

Gear wise Necro and minions

Warlock has Witchfire for doing dmg with minimal input (not great bossing)

Lich has some 1 button builds but is usually gear dependent

[reef goblet]

Lich has huge amount of leech.

You never die unless it's oneshot.

[steady mist]

by easy i mean a chill build so i can watch the other screen while playing, also have a guide that a 5 year old can understand preferebly 😄

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/necromancer-leveling-guide currently using this

[muted mist]

'summon minions, feed them to Abom, buff abom, walking sim' is probably your best bet, and is approximately the final setup variant within that guide (it reocmmends using abom only for bosses but you can just use the abom for everything)

[steady mist]

okey, so its a good guide then?

[muted mist]

yeah, just transition to https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/abomination-necromancer-guide eventually

[steady mist]

okey, ill try that then, thx

[rocky flame]

I have a question about zomebie revive chance

if I have over 100% chance to revive zombie when it die then let's say 125%

Will the extra 25% give me 25% chance to summon an additional zombie? (2 zombies revived per 1 zombie dead)

[lost gale]

nope

but using 2 zombie rings is still good mostly

and ashwake boots make a huge difference for the 3rd & 4th zombies too

3rd zombie goes from 66% chance to revive to 86-91% and the 4th zombie goes from 50% to 70-75%

so in practice you keep a higher number of zombies around for much longer if you think about it in terms of chance to lose a zombie when one explodes

and it isn't x% chance to revive one zombie per second, it's x% chance for every zombie to revive 1s after it explodes so if all 6 blow up simultaneously you do have chances to get all 6 back a second later

but your number of zombies in circulation so to speak isn't going to grow from that effect

[lost gale]

.

[rocky flame]

thank you so much

I kind of see the general idea on how to recycle the zombies via profane veil

but I used to play Warlock once this season and Necromancer when it was season 2

lich is the only class I never play so I really want to try it with this explosive zombie lol

but I can't figure it out how to make it work or what synergy to use

[lost gale]

if you want the zombie explosion to do big damage then apocalypse is the way but recycling them doesn't work only the ones spawned by profane veil get those buffs and you want to blow them up with chaos bolts for another big multiplier

that build is very clunky, it has a 3 button combo that is cooldown limited, does amazing damage in a huge AOE but outside of that combo it really does nothing

there are lich builds that make heavy use of zombies to trigger spells but they scale the damage of those spells (ie player damage) rather than the zombie damage

I don't think anyone's put together a good zombie focused necro build that spams zombie explosions

at 200 INT apocalypse zombies deal 10x as much damage in a 10x larger radius so unless you can make up that damage difference with quantity of zombies and other stuff necro does better it'll ever compete with apocalypse

[rocky flame]

I had played Shadow Cascade Flow 4 button build before

is it feel similar?

[lost gale]

I haven't played rogue but I have seen some flow gameplay and though it looks like you do a combo and the vast majority of the damage is delivered at the end the apoc zombie build literally does nothing outside of the combo

doesn't leech, doesn't have a filler skill really

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/AAApple/character/ZOMBIEE if you look at this planner you'll see how narrow the focus is

highest SC corruption warlock on the ladder

[rocky flame]

ah okay then I need to test how it feel myself

[twin imp]

Any recommendation or tips for Flay build?

[pearl snow]

Have the gear for it already before swapping to it

[twin imp]

I have tons of gear all over the place, so thats not really a problem... Im just trying to decide between some crit one, I saw some mana stacking which looked quite crazy, just the gearing didnt look very appealing... and bleed one with Aura of Decay, which looked pretty cool but most likely with way lower damage? 🤔

[pearl snow]

All your assumptions are correct. If you want to kill things like Ubberroth mana stacking to proc the chaos bolt is really the only way. I think the crit one you are talking about is Harvest Flay which is weaker but usually only played early in league or on a character since gearing it is easier

The AoD one, if it was similar to what I did last league hard caps out at 500cr

[twin imp]

Thats a bit sad to hear 🤔 Mana stacking it is then, at least I can finally use uniques that are collecting dust in stash 😄

[pearl snow]

True

[sonic wind]

What kind of dps is mana flay usually able to reach with like 2x t7 level of gearing?

does it break past like 100 million?

[coral fjord]

How does Mana flay compare to rip blood lich? Have you guys tried both?

I was deterred from Mana flay cuz the idols seemed annoying.

Rip Blood was easy to build and kinda crushes content.

Mana flay seems even stronger.

[sonic wind]

Rip blood definitely hits a bit of a ceiling once you've gotten all the int there is to get, there isnt much you can do to boost damage afterwards.

Idk about mana flay at all really. I've always stuck to stygian coal.

[reef goblet]

pure rip blood or proccing splinter nova version?

[obtuse quest]

Mana flay beats uberroth in 30+~ secs with peak gear, I don't think rip blood can do that

[vapid kindle]

you can get to about 40s, haven’t really tried to push it much further, but probably with better gear and good positioning you can shave a few seconds. generally if you’re not oneshotting you softcap at 35-40s anyways

[coral fjord]

Yea My gear is somewhat basic on rip blood and kills are a bit over a minute.

Wonder if the mana idol hell is worth that trade off haha

[tacit plinth]

If this game corruption wasn't something so bs to get ,mana flay ceiling is incredibly op since all the mana % corruption would just make you go bonkers

Only downside is that aoe isn't that great but you fly around the maps way faster mapping

[tacit plinth]

The mana idols are a pain for sure but good thing is that you dont care about specific corruption all you want is the max roll corruption and also altar is different than other builds so much better to gear up

[wise leaf]

How does cast speed affect channeled skills like ghostflame? Is it worth investing into it at all?

[old hull]

It just reduces the startup animation time, not worth unless you start/stop constantly

[obtuse quest]

Affects the windup and nothing else

[wise leaf]

Allright, figured. Thanks!

[late tinsel]

Should I use the left or right one as a necromancer? depending on how reflection works it would be a lot of damage mitigated

[noble flame]

reflection is relatively worthless outside of specific builds. The armor on the left is still the better pick

[obtuse quest]

Reflect calculates after mitigation, and doesn't prevent the damage that got reflected.

[reef goblet]

30% less elemental damage taken is more impactful than reflect.

[charred ridge]

depends if we are talking dummy dps or real dps lol

in 1.4 it might be pushing past 100m real dps though

[sonic wind]

I mean different bosses have different DR values and stuff anyway so dummy is only way to compare lol.

[charred ridge]

they don't though

[sonic wind]

Shade definitely does

[charred ridge]

oh you right

🤔

the more you know

i mean dummy is definitely not the only way to compare builds

[sonic wind]

Yeah but dummy also lines up with your on paper math based on your stats

doesn't really matter in the end tho

[charred ridge]

i mean pretty much everything else in the game just takes 87% less damage so

aside from orobyss i guess

it doesn't really matter but i prefer to math the damage i'm actually going to be doing to real mobs

[sonic wind]

What does mana flay usually hit on dummy dps tho at high gear?

[charred ridge]

my 1.3 character was getting 300mil and it was doing half damage compared to a minmaxed setup

prob can do 1bil this patch

i'll have to theorycraft again for 1.4

but dmg went up not down

[rocky flame]

this line make me confused

Does it affect minion? cuz it doesn't explicitly say me or minion who deal the damage

[solid sonnet]

I'm looking to continue upgrading my Skeletal Mages Profane Obilation build.

I can do everything except Uber. I am curious how others would approach continuing to upgrade this build. I would like to push for an Uber kill but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Qb6WNNk6

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 100

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (21) / Necromancer (82) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 3,118, Regen: 20/s
▸ Mana: 1,584.46, Regen: 15.2/s
▸ Ward Retention: 222%, Regen: 39/s
▸ Attributes: 25 Str / 6 Dex / 68 Int / 6 Att / 23 Vit
▸ Resistances: 69% / 69% / 96% / 114% / 85% / 220% / 134%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 60%, Threshold: 1,025
▸ Dodge Chance: 1% (24)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 47% (2,866)

Used skills:

Dread Shade / Summon Skeleton / Summon Skeletal Mage / Summon Volatile Zombie / Chaos Bolts

[obtuse quest]

Unless it says "minion", it only affects you.

[steady mist]

hey, when is eventuelly? just started doing monolith of fate

is it much better than the other minion build?

[grim trout]

Hi pros, im currently running abom necro, he is good against bosses but for map clearing is just slow
So i need another build that can help me with clear speed, any recommendations?

[steady mist]

what level are u

[grim trout]

Uhm 86

[steady mist]

ok im 62, still using the normal minion lvling build, its pretty fast for now

[grim trout]

Couldnt find anything on maxroll beside meta builds

[steady mist]

u doing this now? https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/abomination-necromancer-guide

[reef goblet]

Year, the game is easy until you reached ~300 corruption.

Can do whatever and still have fun before that point.

[steady mist]

how do i know how much corruption i have

[reef goblet]

0 if you just started Monolith.

[grim trout]

Yeah that build but instead i use infernal shade over bone curse

Im lazy

[steady mist]

kinda feeling directionless right now, not sure what im suposed to do

[twin imp]

Number 2 at the bottom middle for Empowered monoliths (which automatically start at 100 corruption), should be the same for normal monoliths I guess
You clear echoes to gain stability - the bar at the top; then in normals you can do the 2 quest echoes and then a boss echo... you can also use that green thingie below the bar to get stability faster, usually to just fight bosses
You can either continue doing normal timelines or go to the last 3, where you fight the boss and after the boss you also fight a harbringer, which unlocks you the empowered monoliths
Killing a boss gives you Gaze of Orobyss - number 4
with 4 Gaze of Orobyss stacks, you can go to the boss echo in circle, number 3 - there you fight Shade of Orobyss which resets the timeline, increases corruption to this timeline and consumes those 4 Gaze stacks to get extra corruption (Should be about +12 corruption per stack; cant consume more and If you die to Shade, you lose 1 Gaze stack)

[steady mist]

thx for answer, but these corruption doesnt show for me, is it becuase im on a boss map right now?

[twin imp]

Then its because you are in the "normal" timeline with those 2 quest echoes on top you've already done and not just the boss

[steady mist]

ngl this is abit confusing 😄

[twin imp]

If you go to the "End of Time" in map, it shows you all the other timelines... at on top there are 3 "The Age of Winter", "The Last Ruin" and "Spirits of Fire"... do any of those, the usual with 2 quests and then the boss one, but the boss will also have a secondary boss... and after you kill them, it unlocks you the Empowered monoliths for all timelines whenever you access them from the End of Time map where you're walking on the bridges between different monoliths 😄

[steady mist]

okey i think i got it

thanks

[lost gale]

Blood specters

Look at the SC ladder, many of the top corruption pushers are using it

[muted mist]

video guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Oyh2nhKas

[grim trout]

Thank you, will look it up when i get home, gotta work now 🥹

[rocky flame]

is it normal that I turn my golem into fire and then it doesn't retaliate anymore?

[lost gale]

yes only bone golems get the retaliation spell

fire golems get an AOE fire DOT

[twin imp]

Is there any way to convert AoD to necrotic? 🤔

[old hull]

No

[obtuse quest]

Normal, bone nova is exclusive to Bone Golems

[rocky flame]

I kind of feel like this Idea would be funny but don't have oppotunity to test it myself yet

the idea is use marrow shard to hit my BONE golem and force it to use its retaliation

is it going at least to be a fine build like for 300 corruption?

[old hull]

Yep, should be fine. Boneshatter was even popular for some time. People typically used rip blood and bone curse to hit the golem instead.

[late tinsel]

Gotcha thank you 🙂

[obtuse quest]

Old leveling necromancer setup, uses rip blood for 100% bone nova, self heals, and even mana if required.

[lost gale]

It works, rip blood & bone curse with penance works even better

[obtuse quest]

Yeah was going to say the rip blood verison of the setup is tried & true

[twin imp]

For the mana stacking Flay-Chaos bolts, how much damage comes from Marrow Shards? 🤔 Im wondering If some cold Flay-Chaos Bolts with similar gear setup but cold AoD instead Marrow Shards would also be good?

[sick belfry]

I'd say something like ~10% with fully damage specced marrow

when I tested my dummy kill it was ~20 vs ~22s with and without marrow

but it would also depend on the max mana

since the CB scales on it twice, so more max mana = even less marrow shard contribution

[twin imp]

It would pretty much just be for this, which should be pretty decent for the cold pen for Flay/CB? 🤔 Its kinda mixing two builds together I guess 😄

[sick belfry]

definitely would work better than marrow imho

but going cold means you won't get 2 in 1 melee+spell flat on slams

not sure which one would end up better 🤔

the necro one is much more popular, but that's also an insane amount of cold res pen

[twin imp]

I'd still go for this axe so I could get flat cold on it, just the flat/%necro probably wouldnt do that much with Cold conversions? 😄

[sick belfry]

yeah so that's gonna be a lot of flat missing

the % doesn't really matter much since it's % melee anyway but you'll be missing the intrinsic flat necro and no double dip melee+spell slam

cold does have mourningfrost I guess but that means no army of skin

oh wait we're not gonna stack dex anyway

unless... double stat stack? 👀

but that's gonna be a ton of -cold res

-1% per dex and -1% per int

[twin imp]

Yea I'd rather stick with the Skin boots 😄

With Mourningfrost and AoD with both int and dex, phys cold and poison resist might get hit quite hard 😄

[sick belfry]

the poison res hit gonna be gone since we convert it to cold right

[rocky flame]

how would Penance benefit the golem?

[twin imp]

In AoD? I believe it will... just my knowledge about Acolyte is low af so Im just at the point of checking few maxroll guides, some LEtool guides and cooking from water

[sick belfry]

now I wanna try seeing someone run with a meme -300% cold res

[sonic wind]

I dont think you gain enough damage from -cold res here at all

[obtuse quest]

1.Apply Penance to the golem and target enemy
2. Hit the enemy.
3. Penance procs on the golem, causing a hit.
4. Proc bone nova.
5. Profit from the chain reaction.

[rocky flame]

penance damage count as a HIT!?!

wow it is not mentioned in the LEtools

[obtuse quest]

This is also one of the causes of Penance's frequency nerf.

[old hull]

Bone curse is also a hit, so it doubles up on hits basically

[sonic wind]

Wait did penance get the "up to x per y seconds" treatment too now?

my policy is never use any mechanic with that combination of text in it since every one is trash XD

[obtuse quest]

It's simply "Can only do damage once per 0.35 seconds".

Otherwise it can crash your game, as witnessed BEFORE that text was added.

As a tool to get 'hits', it's still one of the best even with this 'limitation'.

[sonic wind]

only crashed your game if the damage was too low to kill target before loop depth

[obtuse quest]

Which will happen to bosses and big mob groups, since each bone nova procs Penance on each enemy, which cycles back to bone golem, and thus the cycle repeats.

[sonic wind]

0.35 is way too long tho imo.

you hit that cap with like 50% inc cast speed on rip blood

[obtuse quest]

3~ per second is faster than most setups still since you don't even need to do anything once you pop the first one

It loops by itself with no other outside help

[sonic wind]

the delay should break the loop tho?

[obtuse quest]

Nope.

The loop never breaks unless there's literally no target and you stop hitting the golem.

Bone curse also counts as a hit so you'll be double procing if the limit didn't exist, which will escalate and crash.

[sonic wind]

Weird that a 1/3 sec delay doesnt break loop

since the nova should be hitting while pen on cooldown

[obtuse quest]

It also helps that golem auto attacking also contributes.

[twin imp]

Why not? 🤔 No idea how much Int I could start/end up with

[sonic wind]

losing half your flat roughly, + some of your pen and potentially cant get cold res shred either.

[obtuse quest]

You lose flat spell on a build where a good chunk of the damage c omes from spell damage?

[sonic wind]

necrotic is at -88% res or so already

cold would lose 44% of that in exchange for aod stuff

[obtuse quest]

COntary to popular belief, Mana flay's main damage comes from Chaos Bolts

[twin imp]

Hmmm, sounds fair enough to stick to necrotic 🤔

[sonic wind]

like it could be maybe 10-20% more damage at high end

[twin imp]

Wheres that -88% necro from again?

[sonic wind]

But you now have -200% cold res on your character to fix lol

marked for death, 2x pen for 24% affix on weapons, 24% on tree, 20% necrotic shred

might be overlooking a few small sources

but point remains that now you need to fix the extra -cold res from aura of decay on you and I dont see how you do that without putting cold res on a few gear slots which will conflict with other stats.

or force you to start going for extra lp

You can make up a bit of res in exchange for crit if you go for the frost claw unique rune dagger. that also helps a bit with flat.

[lost gale]

they're not all bad, not by a long shot.

Smite on throwing hit and aftershock idols are both very usable.

[sonic wind]

Yes but its lame.

i avoid them because its not fun

unless its for util stuff

Also fine with cases where the cap is high enough it requires effort to reach

[obtuse quest]

CoughChaosBoltsCough

[lost gale]

chaos bolt does split damage however you spec it, generic added spell damage is only going to be half cold

[old hull]

There are quite a few with caps that are totally fine

[lost gale]

not saying cold AoD is automatically bad but

[sonic wind]

Yeah I dont think its totally bad if you ignore the penalty of running it

I just dont see how you solve you suddenly having -300% cold res slapped on you.

even more if you go mourningfrost route

[lost gale]

yeah it's not as though mana flay lacks damage

[sonic wind]

we just gotta wait for necrotic aod some day

surely that happens right

surely

[obtuse quest]

It took me 3+ seasons of cope for an AOD rework.

GOod luck with that.

[lost gale]

I hope not tbh, it would make all acolyte builds too samey if you got AoD in every flavor

I'm not convinced fire AoD was a good idea either tbh

[sonic wind]

There are, but there are so many with badly chosen caps that even just seeing the text makes you sad. That is my main issue.

[old hull]

Well, makes you sad, maybe. I only get sad when I see swarmblade's cold conversion.

[lost gale]

yeah the avalanche boulder on direct spell cast/attack idols probably don't even need a cap at all

they're relatively low chance and on use rather than on hit

[sonic wind]

havlar set. 3 piece set bonus. 1 second cooldown.

[lost gale]

halvar set bonus is really underwhelming yeah

that could easily be 10 per 2s like AS idols

[old hull]

Not sure why they even put the cap on aftershock idols, it's pretty hard to reach lol

[sonic wind]

swarmblade as a whole makes me sad. I was so hyped when it first came out, then they "updated" serpent strike...

[obtuse quest]

Serpent Strike is objectively a decent rework though

[sonic wind]

Not if you want to hit things with it while playing as a bug trying to pretend to be a bladedancer.

[obtuse quest]

In the eyes of a skill by itself it DID get better

[sonic wind]

anyway tho I think fire aod is fine since there arent many fire damage sources on acolyte. Its like a second class element whereas poison phys and necrotic are first class.

[obtuse quest]

poison

Nice joke

[old hull]

Yeh, but at the same time it's still one of the worst skills in game

[sonic wind]

Remember when AoD used to gain poison effect per intelligence and then they just removed that line of text.

pain

I think it was the only effect source that didnt become pen

it just vanished XD

[lost gale]

as befits the primalist

[obtuse quest]

The same patch that killed poison as a damage type. Can't relate

[sonic wind]

Aod was like, barely able to clear non empowered back then before that rework.

[old hull]

Technically speaking, all effect became pen since they didn't remove the stat, they just made effect apply pen instead of multiplying the damage/shred

[lost gale]

poison is still strictly speaking the best ailment IF and only IF all you can do is apply a ton of stacks and not scale it in any other way

[sonic wind]

Right but aod just lost the int scaling it had innately

[obtuse quest]

Alas, reality is cruel.

[sonic wind]

it used to be %inc damafe and %poison effect per int on the skill

[lost gale]

really cool how poison overload's 400% pen only barely makes poison playable

[sonic wind]

This sentence reads as "Poison is the best in situations where it is the only ailment you can apply"

hmmmmm

[obtuse quest]

This also read as "If ailment didn't carry over damage mods from the skill that applied them, poison would be good"

[lost gale]

I was thinking more that the availability of other sources of res pen and -res for ailments makes poison relatively bad

[sonic wind]

You're right, its just funny.

[obtuse quest]

Salt the Wound would like to have a funny word

[sonic wind]

poison is the best if all the other ailments were removed

[lost gale]

not even used for bleed builds these days lol

carrion of creation effectively deleted StW from the game

[old hull]

I thought StW deleted StW

[sonic wind]

legit tho if flay per mana scaling was generic damage not spell we might actually be playing poison mana flay.

might

[obtuse quest]

With no hit damage?

[sonic wind]

Yeah because of the low life node for dot on bolts.

and aod -poison being free with reaper form

[twin imp]

Isnt -300% some big overkill without slapping t7 int everywhere possible? 🤔

[sonic wind]

My lich rn is already only sitting at 50% cold res and I dont have cold aod on...

[twin imp]

Yea sounds a bit rough and how much Int? So far Im just putting together gear for the mana stacking necrotic version, but still only lvling; planning on two weaver rings, harvest axe+Tongue for the start... So it wouldnt be some crazy amount of Int anytime soon

[sonic wind]

Im playing coal so int is the only stat I care about in any capacity

I am at around 300

mana flay you are easily at 200 int tho

likely closer to 250

[tacit plinth]

No no mana flay doesnt Reach nowhere 200 int

You are a man stacker so chest and helmet get double mana affixes you can get maybe towards 150 at best

[twin imp]

I think the two/three builds Ive checked had like 90-130

[tacit plinth]

Mine doesn't even have 120 but it could get to 130 plus easy

[sonic wind]

You start with like 65 int on lich. Red rings are +42 already...

easily can go for +20 on the belt since that belt is giga target farmable and you can fish for the %mana corrupt.

[tacit plinth]

Yeah but you get 16 inte on boots and relic at best

The belt is fine but for mapping brew is way better

And bossing you get the fire belt

[sonic wind]

and 20 + 5ish on amulet.

[tacit plinth]

Exulis again bossing nihilis is better though

Mana flay scales too hard with increases to mana

Gets more than enough flat

[sonic wind]

i dont think thats the case if you are going for %mana corrupts.

[tacit plinth]

You shouldn't care about mana % corrupts unless you play mg

[twin imp]

Only because Deadly Plot+Chaos Rip?

[tacit plinth]

Ok cof good luck getting any of them

[sonic wind]

it depends on the slot. Belt is easy and free.

helmet and chest yeah not happening

[tacit plinth]

Yep you can realistically grt to 800% this league and if you could get your 2 lps plus corrupt mana% you would be at 1000% more damage ez

Yeah belt is fine since 1 lp works

[sonic wind]

There are some other options on table too like the harbi sceptre with %mana corrupt and flat mana over tongue. Could potentially even roll for a t8 flat mana if your idols are bad.

[tacit plinth]

Anyway point being you wont reach 150 plus intelligence caus stuff like nihilis ,or belts like brew and fire are stronger than the int versions gains

Its so easy to get 20 flat mana idols this league which is great

[sonic wind]

are you going for madness corrult nihlis?

[tacit plinth]

You should for uber for mapping doesn't matter

[sonic wind]

like a planner I threw together last night was 2k mana 280 int at 2x t7 gear stage.

[tacit plinth]

Some extra little ward for mapping its nice

Well I have actual gear and again stacking mana is key for dps

I mapped at 2k corr and brew is op for not feeling squishy

[sonic wind]

I mean I also have actual gear but I made planner to plan if I wanted to actually swap into it from current setup.

[sick belfry]

280 int

👀

[tacit plinth]

Same way that I use null portent for dr but the minion chest without some corruption is better choice

[twin imp]

At this point not really, just mostly 2-3LP gear depending on the slot that I already have around, so at this point I dont really dont bother with corruptions on gear/idols... later, sure, but for now Im just looking for some build that looks interesting and can do well in endgame and ideally on Uber, doesnt have to be the most insane Lich build 😄
Mana stacking Flay looked cool for damage, but at the same time cold one with the AoD looked visually interesting while doing some nice numbers, so the idea was to pretty much put those two builds together and see how it goes... If it goes not as well, I can always spec to one of the other builds since its more-or-less similar

[tacit plinth]

The ceiling of mana is way higher than cold ,that being said for uber there is a leech flay build that is kinda broken

[sonic wind]

I made the planner to see if the perfect roll 2lp architects I had was worth trying to slam with my t7 %mana t7 int chest. The slam missed.

[sick belfry]

is that the coal or manaflay

[sonic wind]

My current character is coal I am considering swapping to mana flay if the damage looks similar because its higher burst.

most of the gear is very similar

[sick belfry]

280 int on manaflay gear is

[sonic wind]

How much mana is it usually hitting normally? 2k seemed like a pretty solid amount of mana to hit

and that was with swapping flat mana affixes to int

[sick belfry]

I have ~2.4k unbuffed atm

can probably get more if I slam double mana on chest instead of int

I'm not sure the exact breakpoint but not too long ago I felt like I wasn't really doing that much damage, then suddenly it felt like it skyrocketed

if you get 280 int it's probably not an issue tho

the madness should more than cover the damage

[sonic wind]

main thing for me was that madness is in equation now and the build has 100% crit essentially for free. You get %inc damage, crit multi, and ~1/4 as much flat mana from an int affix which is 2 extra vectors compared to flat mana.

so there will be a point where int beats flat mana affixes depening on where your flat mana sits from other gear

I was doing the flat mana idol altar with 2 %health omen idols mixed in and everything else double mana weavers.

[twin imp]

well I got some gear ready, so just need to lvl stuff up and see where things go 😄

For uber the gear ceiling probably isnt something too insane with mana Flay?

[tacit plinth]

Nah 2 t7 gear slaps uber specially this league

If you ever get any op corruption uber is a joke

Most important part is to stack mana,not on weapons, and damage is over kill

You can get triple mana corruption % belt,chest,helmet for a cof player like myself that use t7 affixes only is a bit too hard to farm get but the belt one is easier for sure since 1 lp works

[twin imp]

Yea I got plenty of Brew belts to spare

[tacit plinth]

Really fun to map, the reach of flay got nerfed so its not as strong for mapping so your cant teleport as far way as in 1.3 , but still pretty good

[twin imp]

Chest is either Valeroot for the flat mana / Core / Ox Mantle for a bit of tankiness? 🤔

[tacit plinth]

Yes

I am using currently null portent ty to some corruption

Valeroot is for uber only,ox for mapping

And even then you may want to use ox for the sheer better stats,in uber

[twin imp]

Well so there are some options, thats good 😄 stacking of a single affix looked a lil bit boring, but I guess it works just fine

also got this fancy thing 🤔 only t3 int, but still max rolls

[brazen wigeon]

you can get good exulis on bazaar for like 50 000

[tacit plinth]

It makes gearing easier anyway i love mana stackers

[brazen wigeon]

nearly perfect rolls

[twin imp]

I only play CoF 😄 the hype rush from loot explosions is too strong

[brazen wigeon]

any good wandering spirits build? 😄

[lost gale]

first couple of days of the s4 ladder there were two liches playing wandering spirits above 1000c but they weren't using any of the wandering spirits items or tech afaict

[sonic wind]

It's just fast clear I'd assume.

Wandering spirits might be good if you have an extra 12 skill points

tree has too many hard required nodes to actually click any damage lol

[lost gale]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Djeedau/character/JV__3312 this guy is using it for mana management on a coal build

idk if that's actually a good idea or not but it's interesting

[sonic wind]

I used it early on for mana but once you get scaled you oversustain mana

[lost gale]

first use case for eternal servitude in drain life I've ever seen

[lost gale]

do you? Were you spamming drain life or not?

because spamming drain life increases DPS

[sonic wind]

I can hold down drain life button rn while bossing.

with shackles

[lost gale]

huh

[sonic wind]

I have a madness apathy exulis

[lost gale]

must be something you can do with poison overload & poison wandering spirits

it's 400% more damage almost for free

[sonic wind]

the issue with spirits rn is really just that the damage nodes cost way too many points

for the spell dot portion

[lost gale]

I assume that poison penetration applies to all poison damage and not just the ailment

[lost gale]

yeah looking at it it's kind of like storm crows in that you could have 40 points and not run out of stuff to spend them on

except not nearly as good as storm crows

[brazen wigeon]

also harvest node for spirits looks interesting

I mean it doesn't have CD or anything

[sonic wind]

Yeah you probs want to use harvest to generate them since you cant take any of the important nodes in the actual tree

[brazen wigeon]

tho this doesn't change poison to ignite right?

[lost gale]

probably need to test that

the poison conversion on the skill tree doesn't convert ailments

[lost gale]

I'd like buffs to this for sure, but apparently it breaks the duration of existing spirits when it triggers and causes them to disappear prematurely under some circumstances

One of which is if you use eternal servitude in drain life to extend wandering spirits the chance to reveal a spirit on kill breaks that

[brazen wigeon]

what about using chaos bolts to spam harvest to spam wandering spirits?

[sonic wind]

Lol. https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Q0Vbl5zP

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 100

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Necromancer (8) / Lich (67) / Warlock (18)

General:

▸ Health: 1,622, Regen: 20/s
▸ Mana: 541.51, Regen: 11.52/s
▸ Ward Retention: 506%, Regen: 93/s
▸ Attributes: 33 Str / 44 Dex / 253 Int / 33 Att / 45 Vit
▸ Resistances: 15% / 15% / 15% / 23% / 23% / 158% / 84%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 41%, Threshold: 356
▸ Dodge Chance: 38% (1364)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 30% (1,492)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 100%

Used skills:

Wandering Spirits / Harvest / Aura Of Decay / Reaper Form

[sonic wind]

Level 40, still not enough

7 more points would be usable

4421% damage/s

[lost gale]

3 harvest/s at best so 3 spirits/s which is not great

[sonic wind]

Per spirit. I guess that is a decent amount.

Actually you definitely go warlock for the veil node.

oh and you can use fissure for generic flat too actually since getting flat added poison damage for spells is a little bit hard.

[lost gale]

that's spending a lot of mana

[sick belfry]

the crit evasion chest if you're going to run madness

[lost gale]

fissure every 5s ish, veil on cooldown, spirits

[sonic wind]

It's wandering spirits tho we gotta make it deal damage before we can deal with the other problems XD

200% base spell dot/s

[lost gale]

200% x number of spirits on the enemy

which for big enemies can be a lot

[sonic wind]

True, emperor of corpses is gonna be having a real bad day.

I think you just don't even cast spirits tho maybe and just spam harvest?

actually harvest can do decent enough mana gen?

[lost gale]

well profane veil won't work with harvest

you're not going to be attacking with harvest to create spirits in veil

[sonic wind]

Thats what you think, but you could have the fissure spam chaos bolts for you which then use harvest for you. This is totally a reasonable build for sure no problems at all.

[lost gale]

not if you want to use self torment for +flat damage

I doubt fissure can fire enough CB to cap the harvest proc rate anyway

not if you want to have any mana left anyway

[signal acorn]

Is there a reason why we can cast Ctahonic fissure 1 by 1 when we get the node to let us cast 2 of them ?

[lost gale]

if you mean of gloom and flames it does both in a single cast, one in front of you and one behind you.

if you mean the sunderer's domain then they cannot overlap or the new one replaces the old

if you use both then idk how it works exactly

[obtuse quest]

Two fissures max

[signal acorn]

im talking aobut the of gloom and flamnes

[lost gale]

does that mean it just works like of gloom and flames does normally?

but with half spirit frequency?

[obtuse quest]

Gloom gives you 3 total.

[signal acorn]

with the Sunderers you can cast 1 at a time?

[lost gale]

yeah with just sunderers you cast 1 at a time and they only go in front of you

but that means you have to cast, move away from the one on the floor, cast again so they don't overlap, move etc

[signal acorn]

got it! i actually forgot taht node existed

might try that

[obtuse quest]

They can cross but never overlap too much

You can draw a * and you'll be fine

[lost gale]

Of Gloom and Flames
Chthonic Fissure now creates a secondary Fissure in the opposite direction that casts its own Spirits. Enemies can take damage from both Fissures if they stand on both, but Chthonic Fissure costs significantly more mana.
This effect will not create more than 2 Fissures if you also have The Sunderer's Domain node.
normal max fissures is 1
The Sunderer's Domain
You can now have additional Fissures active at a time, but Spirits are released less frequently.
If a Fissure is placed over an existing one, the new Fissure closes after 1 second.
You cannot create more than 2 Fissures if you also have the Of Gloom and Flames node.

So if you can only get 2 fissures with both and of gloom and flames still creates them 2 at a time then the net effect of both is just halving your spirit rate and otherwise acting like gloom?

[obtuse quest]

To my knowledge it's supposed to be 'two' gloom fissures.

[lost gale]

oh, but that would be 4 fissures total

strange

[signal acorn]

i feel like losing 50% spirit frequency is a big dps loss?

[obtuse quest]

Oh

It's funnier.

You get one full Gloom fissure and one normal fissure.

[signal acorn]

ooohh lmao

[brazen wigeon]

what are skeletal mages there for

[obtuse quest]

It'll look like you get two gloom fissures but half of them will fade

[obtuse quest]

This is a dummy character in standard to test stuff.

Char was previously made to test Retaliate HS skele mages

[brazen wigeon]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QeY72pqn test this stuff I am about to try to build it since I really want to use that weapon but dunno how it will fare

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 100

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (83) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 4,181, Regen: 0/s
▸ Mana: 379.51, Regen: 14.72/s
▸ Ward Retention: 148%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 24 Str / 31 Dex / 74 Int / 16 Att / 26 Vit
▸ Resistances: 100% / 100% / 110% / 70% / 78% / 118% / 78%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 36%, Threshold: 1,620
▸ Dodge Chance: 16% (511)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 35% (1,858)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 80%

Used skills:

Harvest / Reaper Form / Flay / Death Seal / Aura Of Decay

[brazen wigeon]

~800% crit multiplier harrowing harvests...

[obtuse quest]

Sir this guy is for interaction testing

[brazen wigeon]

oh

sure ;p

[obtuse quest]

Why is AoD even here?

Armour shred?

[brazen wigeon]

to keep alive for 4% life regen

I wish there was necrotic aura of decay

[obtuse quest]

Another one falls for it

[brazen wigeon]

and also to put chill and slow

for this node

aura = armor shred, chill, slow and poison = 4 ailments

harvest gives bleed

and flay marks for death

tho dunno if that one counts

[obtuse quest]

FLay gives two.

Is exposed flesh a joke to you-

[brazen wigeon]

yeah also the other curse

[obtuse quest]

You're one over the max, but ye

[brazen wigeon]

tho theoreticalt since harvest with this setup has 29% base critical rate getting 140% crit chance should be no problem

and around 800 maybe 900 crit multiplier

if deadly strike proc

+further multiplied by harrowing harvest

should hit pretty hard

biggest obstacle is slamming the titan heart

also should be pretty tanky with altaria rings, titan heart and lich delayed damage taken + ekkidrasil

[obtuse quest]

There's technically the issue of harvest's aoe being small as hell

[brazen wigeon]

well it's mellee build...

[obtuse quest]

We have melee builds that don't need our character to be in their hitbox to hit

[brazen wigeon]

tho there is flay spam

and also relic gives haste + boots mvoe speed

should be pretty zoom zoom

[obtuse quest]

It's about 19% faster than peak mana flay's movespeed with less blinking, so it's okay.

[brazen wigeon]

I see madness

so much armour

duh

117,5% increased armour due to madness

[noble flame]

New patch notes no fix for Destruction Engine 😭

[pearl snow]

That aint gunna be a small patch fix

Its a targeting rework for the skill entirely

If they do it

[noble flame]

I know, I know

[pearl snow]

Kek

[uneven grail]

Dumb question here : is there an easy way to calculate the final critical chances of a specific spell ?
And if not, how do you usually calculate that ?

[noble flame]

add up base crit values (global and in skill) and multiply by increased.

base crit is 5%

[late tinsel]

Does fragments of the fallen work with twinned golems?

[uneven grail]

@noble flame will do, thanks

[late tinsel]

or should I just respec because I'm going for two mini golems?

Not sure if this works with them if I summon them after they have died or when I log on or not

[lost gale]

It does for the first golem

[obtuse quest]

The first golem will get the buff

[late tinsel]

oh okay ty!

[twin imp]

rolling

[tacit plinth]

Fun time about to begin 🔥

[twin imp]

Well things are melting, just the mana is a bit funny with this... 😄

[steady mist]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/abomination-necromancer-guide

is this the best or one of the best minionbuilds?

also when is it worth changing to it? im currently lvl 73 and playing a lvling minion build

[wintry flame]

it's good and easy to setup you can swap when you have the main skill and like some good minion gear pieces

to help with clear it's nice to have some minion plague on hit idols too before swapping

[steady mist]

okey, tho i dont think i really have any good gear for it, mostly cuz im not really sure what im looking for

[muted mist]

how much INT do you have?

[twin imp]

well thats awkward...

[muted mist]

lemme guess, you have Titan Heart armor and Impact Ward?

[lost gale]

elite lich combo

[twin imp]

I wish I was that smart, but I just left AoD on while reading skills...

[lost gale]

seriously, Lich is the mastery which forces you to keep blasting or you're gonna kill yourself

if you ain't leeching you are in danger even in safe zones

[prisma dust]

this is my resting hp on my hc lich 😨

[muted mist]

do you have the % max health healing node? that usually prevents death for me

[twin imp]

Yea it kinda reminds me of Shadow Rend... 1.6k life at Uber but 10k+ ward while blasting... 😄

[twin imp]

Corrupted Form? just 2 points for now... only lv50 so far

[muted mist]

no in Aura of Decay, the heal based on missing health

[lost gale]

I'd only go 1/5 or 5/5 in corrupted form, it's kind of bad at any other value

[late tinsel]

Does this scale the revenants that I can summon as a skill as well or just the one summoned from losing 50% HP?

[twin imp]

Not yet, gonna pick that up 🤔 I see it counts you as an ally... a bit odd since some skills dont see you as your own ally... 😄

[late tinsel]

because 300% would be insane

[muted mist]

just that one revenant; everything else is a wraith or specter, not a revenant

[late tinsel]

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan 😭

[twin imp]

I dont run Death Seal so its kinda free stuff for me with 2/5

[lost gale]

2 Point Bonus
Your current health and your ward each cannot exceed 50% of your maximum health. You always count as being at low life.
Does not scale with points allocated
Health And Ward Cannot Exceed Max Health Percentage: 50%
Always Count As At Low Life

You're limiting your health and ward without getting the benefit of increasing the limit at 5/5

[muted mist]

Here is my necro when I was running Abom:
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AVzb6GdA

This is a much easier setup to get working than the maxroll guide, and can be used as a stepping stone. The maxroll version uses Cleaver Solution to convert Strength into Intelligence, which isn't worth it early IMO

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 95

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 3: Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.5

Class:

Acolyte (21) / Necromancer (77) / Lich (10)

General:

▸ Health: 2,204, Regen: 24.53/s
▸ Mana: 118.98, Regen: 11.36/s
▸ Ward Retention: 137%, Regen: 113/s
▸ Attributes: 1 Str / 9 Dex / 53 Int / 1 Att / 10 Vit
▸ Resistances: 91% / 89% / 75% / 79% / 88% / 178% / 83%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 51%, Threshold: 465
▸ Dodge Chance: 7% (202)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 22% (835)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 102%

Used skills:

Assemble Abomination / Summon Skeleton / Infernal Shade / Dread Shade / Aura Of Decay

[twin imp]

wdym without getting the benefit? Ye at 2/5 I have less health than what I would have at 5/5, but evet at 2/5 I count as "low life" 🤔

[lost gale]

5/5 makes up most of the lost health from being capped at 50% of max health but 2/5 does not

you're losing the most possible EHP from corrupted form at 2/5

yes you count as low-life but you're giving up a lot for it

[twin imp]

Yea I get that part, its just Im at lv50 so theres plenty of points to still get 😄

[indigo falcon]

first uber, took me two days

it is so damn hard

[muted mist]

previous planner is after the switch to the missing-health-to-ward mechanic, here is approximately what you want beforehand:
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AVa9zgvv
(swap out of the Crimson Gluttony acolyte passive and just wear whatever chest and boots and gloves give you good resists and health). Before the switch, the Lagon health regen blessing is nice, after the switch you definitely want ward. Switch once you have Last Steps of the Living and either Exsang or Shroud of Obscurity.

This is not necessarily the best build, but it is very straightforward to get going and very strong and fairly well documented (there's TONS of abom guides if you poke around). I'd switch to this once your minions start to take a while to kill things, especially single targets like Nemesis and Rift Beasts. Not sure about perf in Omen Windows. All the better builds I know of don't have any guides that I am aware of.

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 95

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Necromancer (72) / Lich (10)

General:

▸ Health: 2,200, Regen: 24.53/s
▸ Mana: 121.98, Regen: 11.36/s
▸ Ward Retention: 147%, Regen: 114/s
▸ Attributes: 1 Str / 11 Dex / 55 Int / 1 Att / 14 Vit
▸ Resistances: 84% / 103% / 58% / 68% / 83% / 174% / 25%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 50%, Threshold: 464
▸ Dodge Chance: 7% (193)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 26% (1,119)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 94%

Used skills:

Assemble Abomination / Summon Skeleton / Infernal Shade / Dread Shade / Aura Of Decay

[lost gale]

what are you playing that uses zombies, vanguards and rip blood as a lich?

[indigo falcon]

it is a very interesting interaction i can summon hundreads of vanguards that blow up and cast zombies as long as i have mana, and i get mana from marrow shards+rip blood

[lost gale]

ah with mshards consuming zombies?

yeah that's sweet

and zombies casting mshards?

[indigo falcon]

it literally lags out my whole pc

so many minions and explosions

[lost gale]

can you link your planner pls?

[muted mist]

i started an alt for zombie marrow shards but i am annoyed that the Marrow Caster is too good, I am nostalgic for the Pestilence set from D3, which had bone shards being flung in arcs at enemies

[indigo falcon]

yes

let me see

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/oP6Y7aVl

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 98

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (71) / Warlock (20)

General:

▸ Health: 3,131, Regen: 19.72/s
▸ Mana: 457.5, Regen: 14.24/s
▸ Ward Retention: 51%, Regen: 19/s
▸ Attributes: 2 Str / 10 Dex / 141 Int / 2 Att / 3 Vit
▸ Resistances: 69% / 77% / 89% / 162% / 76% / 152% / 72%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 55%, Threshold: 1,346
▸ Dodge Chance: 23% (782)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 25% (1,079)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 100%

Used skills:

Aura Of Decay / Reaper Form / Marrow Shards / Rip Blood / Summon Volatile Zombie

[indigo falcon]

this is the setup i beat it with, but now i'll go back to ghostflame+marrowshards and just farm

[muted mist]

no bees/s corrupts on your idols? 😛

[indigo falcon]

i made this like a week ago

still a lot to work on it

[muted mist]

very cool build, you spam zombies while you have mana and rip blood when you don't?

[indigo falcon]

but i think the vanguard thing is a bug, ur not supposed to have 200 vanguard blowing up

[lost gale]

yeah marrow caster is amazing

[indigo falcon]

so, i put down lots of zombies when the boss spawns to trigger the vanguards to go over the max 3 threshold and when i see 4-5 i spam rip blood and it just goes up and up

maybe i can upload a lil video it is hilarious

[lost gale]

sounds like a bug, you shouldn't be netting more zombies than you're consuming with vanguards

each vanguard is only +0.3 zombies

you're not using ash wake for another 25% zombie revive chance

[indigo falcon]

ash wake is not good for this

it makes it fire and i do phys dmg

[lost gale]

yeah losing phys AoD is a serious trade off

btw I think you can go 1/2 life blood and either +2% crit chance or +25% range or +15% damage

[muted mist]

i concur that behavior sounds bugged, it should not go infinite

[lost gale]

surely you're doing enough marrow shards that +10% or +20% chance for marrow orbs is equivalent

gonna hit the cap either way

[lost gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAPdD3kWysA this guy is playing something similar with ash wake

it does seem to go faster when the zombies are dying in the ash wake AoD area

he's not using vanguards though

[late tinsel]

With lone watcher does that mean the reduced health decay makes my minion take less damage?

[lost gale]

I've always assumed so, but idk for sure

[indigo falcon]

yes, that was an inspiration but i don t like the boots

[lost gale]

I think I prefer the vanguard approach you've gone for

[noble flame]

I'd been trying something like that with Necro. Skeletons were nice for mana recovery, but it's an extra skill slot to give up.

[late tinsel]

How do you guys do mana recovery I'm leveling and running out of mana is a pain

[lost gale]

without something to cast symbiotic apparition dread shade on that'll stick around I don't like necro for player damage builds

[lost gale]

rip blood, can also try wandering souls

[noble flame]

Yeah, ultimately I felt like it wasnt working out well enough and shifted to infernal shades.

The dread shade stuff summoning more zombies is nice, but it's a lot of points too, especially when you've got other ways to get more zombies.

[lost gale]

actually I thought more about it and I don't think it's bugged.

I think what's happening is that zombies are mostly reviving from the zombie rings while there are 0 or 1 zombies up and getting 100% chance as a result, then they're dying too quickly for them to reduce the chance of future zombies reviving.

Assuming it works the same way as the skelly revive does the chance to revive is checked at the moment the minion would revive (ie 1 or 3s after death) and if you don't have 0-1 zombies alive at that point then they'll have a 100% chance to revive with 2 zombie rings. If they're 100% reviving then the 30% chance for the resulting vanguard to spawn a new zombie will increase the amount of zombies being recycled.

[indigo falcon]

well it doesn't say anything about a cap for them

[lost gale]

skeleton vanguards are limited to 3 by default

minion caps are usually inherent to the type of minion rather than the method to spawn them

[noble flame]

it was interesting that the number was going up on the top left, but it was just a bunch of skeletons standing still on screen

[lost gale]

yeah they're not running in and attacking

[indigo falcon]

so only 3 are actually "alive" the rest are T pose dummies

[lost gale]

I think they're dead but the game isn't keeping up with them

every zombie spawns one vanguard and triggers marrow shards which consumes a minion

you're also triggering marrow shards which are consuming minions

idk if corrupted form is good, if you instead took the 35 ward on minion death you might get giga ward instead

[indigo falcon]

from what i remember i had to take to work

[noble flame]

Not another Apathy bug

[indigo falcon]

let me test if i can do it without it

[lost gale]

nah makes sense, the zombie dying only kills one additional minion

apathy is needed to kill the extra zombies that are spawning

[indigo falcon]

ok, so without apathy it doesn t work XD

it is an apathy bug

they are capped at 3

[lost gale]

I think without apathy you'd be waiting for zombies to die but that doesn't seem like a bug to me

it's hurting the zombies as it's meant to

I've had that same behaviour of oversummoning with summon skeletons

I've had it say I've got like 50 skeleton warriors before but they're t-posed not doing anything and when things settle down they just vanish

[noble flame]

Now I'm wondering if they regressed this bug: https://youtu.be/K3KFJ2b0Vw0?si=mQGShBRVSGK7LN4Z

Ossumancy was doing some triggering on proc'd MS and causing massive damage spikes. More points increased the rate of occurence.

[lost gale]

Anyone know if Carnage (trigger MShards via rip blood) works if you spec rip blood to target minions?

[late tinsel]

Does stacking it above 100% actually do anything?

[pine mist]

is worlock good for high tier corruption or is lich better with stigyn?

[lost gale]

yeah you get 1 stack and a 25% chance for a second stack

[lost gale]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/ladders/shattered-omens/latest/softcore-1p/corruption/acolyte see what people are playing on acolyte at high corruption

[noble flame]

I love that there's a basic Acolyte at 2k corruption

[pearl snow]

In grey gear lol

100% an exp echo carry or something

[noble flame]

Definitely something, but funny regardless

[sonic wind]

Back before we could respec mastery I took no mastery mage to lv100 and like 1k corruption in preparation for runemaster.

[void sorrel]

Is the spine malatros any good for warlock these days

[pearl snow]

Yes

Basic Fire Flame Whips or Phys convert work these days

[void sorrel]

Sounds funnn

[pearl snow]

Its a really good build for Bossing

[void sorrel]

Since spirits are converted to flame whip, does curse dmg apply to flame whip?

Or is curse dmg only related to the torment curse

[obtuse quest]

Replaced. Whips don’t do torment so curse damage does nothing

[void sorrel]

Ok ty

[late tinsel]

I just hit level 50 and I want to try an abomination build, is the one on maxroll the one I should go with?

[noble flame]

That one is solid. I'm partial to using Blood Wraiths via Destruction Engine

[lean sequoia]

Before I potentially ruin this Seed, if I put a %increased mana from a Rogue helmet on it it won't lock it to Rogue right?

[tacit plinth]

No

[late tinsel]

Do blaze shades work on minions?

[wintry flame]

yeah

[rocky flame]

about the skeleton vanguard, Does plus to maximum number of skeletons make me able to summon more Vanguard than the 3 limit?

[pearl snow]

No

Vanguards are not the aame “skeletons” from Summon Skeleton and vice versa

[rocky flame]

there's no way to get more than 3 vanguard right?

[obtuse quest]

No

[rocky flame]

I respect my lv 30 Walock Zombie explosion (SCF) and go Rip Blood Retaliation Bone Golem instead as you guys suggested

It feel very smooth like way way smother than Zombie for running the Campaign

like I just one-shot act6 boss

[steady mist]

sorry for late answer i went to bed. got 20 int

[steady mist]

cool thx for the very detail answer. But how long would be considered to long to kill riftbeasts or nemesis? 😄

[steady mist]

Just changed to new abomination spec, wondering why my HP keeps draining

[lost gale]

you've either got some equipment on which drains your health and gives you a percentage of your missing health as ward per second or you've taken some nodes on the passive tree which drain health (acolyte has a few)

[steady mist]

ah okey found it

kinda scary but wcyd its in the guide

[reef goblet]

because it's good?

all you need is get some regen/leech or other recovery method to offset it

[steady mist]

yeah i asumed its good when u understand why 😄

but rn ngl ive not been doing very great with this new build

[steady mist]

Atleast Bosses die fast lol

[queen parcel]

someone here familiar with the mana flay lich from maxroll? I think I got smth wrong in my build but i can't figure out what. My damage isn't half as high on uber abby as what Volca shows in the vid, yet the only thing i'm missing from the planner is the madness nihilis https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/B4XqGZp4

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 99

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (82) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 3,581, Regen: 19.86/s
▸ Mana: 1,682.1, Regen: 19.28/s
▸ Ward Retention: 217%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 26 Str / 14 Dex / 105 Int / 13 Att / 20 Vit
▸ Resistances: 175% / 130% / 148% / 156% / 85% / 101% / 117%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 48%, Threshold: 1,666
▸ Dodge Chance: 12% (372)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 45% (2,676)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 100%

Used skills:

Reaper Form / Harvest / Chaos Bolts / Marrow Shards / Flay

[indigo falcon]

First one, how rare is it

[kind mist]

dummy rare

[queen parcel]

basically as rare as it gets in this game

[indigo falcon]

can i imprint it?

does it work to drop more

[queen parcel]

you can, but with nerfed imprints it's not gonna drop a whole lot from that

[obtuse quest]

You're a whole season late.

[queen parcel]

best option to get more is just to do more ring prophecies

[obtuse quest]

(Still works, just weak)

[twin imp]

Doesnt he also have %mana on helmet+body? At least thats what Ive seen on some other planners... and people with like +-2300mana 🤔 possibly corruption on axe for some damage too

[queen parcel]

corrupted mana on body, yes. Some flat on helmet. His total in the vid is about 400 more than mine, but that's mostly due to the altar

this is just totally unrealistic

[sick belfry]

you should aim for the 10 mana per corrupted idol corruption first

that's the bulk of altar power for manaflay

[queen parcel]

yeah it's just really hard to get specific mods on altars...

been farming omens veil for a long time, didn't get it

thanks for the feedback though. Guess I'll just keep doing uber abby on my bladestorm or rip blood builds instead. Much more comfy than this one

and use this for farming

[brazen wigeon]

meanwhile I'm happy with 8% HP per huge idol...lol

[late tinsel]

Is there a visual indicator between blaze shade and infernal shade? How would I know if it procced

oh it's much larger

[lost gale]

I definitely wouldn't spec infernal shade for damage when using it to speed up abom

[muted mist]

It's also more area, so it'll be better at armor shred and slow infliction, I guess?

[lost gale]

iirc it does like 8 stacks of armor shred maximum

pretty worthless

[sonic wind]

At least in the past you actually did take damage nodes because you could leech off the damage it dealt to abom.

and abom had so much health (like hundreds of millions) that it didnt matter

[lost gale]

I think you can still leech off damage to minions with marrow shards, maybe you can with infernal shade too?

[sonic wind]

Omg I found a use case for bees per 10 idols

[lost gale]

increasing HS damage for skelly mages?

consuming them with marrow shards to spawn more zombies?

[sonic wind]

Reaper form sustain with leech

[lost gale]

with an infernal shade that hops from minion to minion?

[sonic wind]

ye

if ticks oneshot the bees they should have around 4k health pretty easily, 5% leeched is 200 health 3 ticks per second per shade so 600. you need 30 bees per 10. 5x omen 5/10 idols is 25 already so just need corrupt on a few others.

thats taking %minion life per vitality in necro.

this is way better than aura of decay and you can probs squeeze some utility clear out of the shades too depending on build.

Actually really hopeful for this

Wonder if I have enough idols in stash to test rn

[wintry flame]

btw I've said this a lot but if you don't use reap you can just respec it back to reaper form before you start echoes/zone and just repress it off CD it will refresh the decay and you can sustain reaper form infinitely with no investment 😛

[lost gale]

how so? AoD does giga damage scaling with res reduction

better than AoD's sustain/healing for sure

[sonic wind]

Yeah I just mean aod for making reaper form last through the "oh let me take 20 seconds to look at this big pile of loot that just dropped"

[steady mist]

imo look cool without cosmetics

[brazen wigeon]

I see you plucked out your own eye and parada it on your palm

is the skull on ax also yours?

[lost gale]

that's good tech

[steady mist]

yeah always thinking outside the box

[wintry flame]

especially good in campaign. but no one seems to care about it. I've watched people just let reaper fade before zoning so they get CD reset to use again

[lost gale]

just click on the skill slot and set it to reaper form?

does it go back to reap after you refresh reaper form

[wintry flame]

yupp

I can check if it still works this patch, doubt it would change but

[sonic wind]

But reap is like, the whole reason to use reaper form XD

[wintry flame]

well I guess we don't get CD resets anymore or maybe it's online only

[brazen wigeon]

nooo don't dis on reaper form

[wintry flame]

you do it on transitions or when you have downtime, so you can just reset the degen

you don't lose reap

except for like max 15 secs

[rocky flame]

woah man, this Retaliation Bone golem feel so good man. I just one-shot act 8 boss. i mean literally one-shot him

what so much impressive is this is Solo Character Found so No unique no help no affix shard no full stream crafted gear, everythig is just picked up from the ground

and it still kill the boss in like 2 sec

[muted mist]

nice, I keep pondering trying that build but hard to tell how all the changes affected it. what all are you specced into? golem, rip blood, dread shade, bone curse, i would guess, and probably infernal shade or aura of decay?

[sonic wind]

Been trying it for a bit it doesn't really solve my issue tho since it replaces the current problem of out of combat randomly dropping form due to AoD skipping ticks of healing with a new problem of remembering to reset drain if I need to check a few items/interact with nemesis/whatever mid echo (Like I still need to run AoD or whatever to sustain it)

[obtuse quest]

It IS the tried and true necromancer leveling setup for a reason

[obtuse quest]

In context for endgame: it exists. don't expect much past 300-500c

[late tinsel]

Ohh ty then what am I supposed to do with it? I think I have like 16 points invested in the skill already

[lost gale]

attach to minions, minion has haste, minion has increased attack & cast speed, unlimited duration, slows enemies

[late tinsel]

Yeah I think I did those already

[lost gale]

okay well maybe blaze shade is fine, you're not gonna kill your abom anyway

[late tinsel]

Yeeee he a tanky boi

💪

I am away for 5 days though so gotta wait until I can play again... Unless this is playable on PS5

[twin imp]

Damn If only the first prefix was something different

[coarse hinge]

Need tips for haste on lich

[brazen wigeon]

shattered realm

worlds*

[sonic wind]

Or you know, just click the node in transplant XD

[dense otter]

Hey so how often can you proc the defiling nova from the vile tide passive node?

Is there a cooldown or can you just rapid fire those with a no cd spell provided the other conditions are met?

[hidden yew]

Anyone found a way to have decent aoe dmg with spine of malatros build? I remember it being quite weak to clear packs and with omen windows, its likely to feel bad

[primal vault]

well that was easy

[old hull]

It only procs when you gain poison overload and you can't refresh overloads, so functionally it has a fixed 12s cooldown

[pearl snow]

If you go Physical / Bleed people have opted for Rip blood and Marrow Shards.
If you wanted to stick to fire your best bet is probably Infernal Shade Explosions? I used to use Profane Veil to proc a bunch of them at the same time and clear was slightly better as a rresult

[dense otter]

Ah

[rocky flame]

I see this guy at 1000 corruption with the retaliation golem

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Despins/character/Despins-Golemancer

maybe I will use his gear as aspirational gear if I don't switch back to explosive zombie lol

[rocky flame]

yeah except I'm using zombie instead of Aura of decay or Infernal shade cuz I plan to switch to explosive zombie or some kind of zombie related build later

I saw a Lich build that use zombie to chain kill our own minion to trigger multiple sacrifice at once

but the Damage come from us the summoner not the minion itself so It kind of not fit for what I want to do

but the concept is really interesting

[hidden yew]

An interesting one tho is the necrotic whips from poison conversion because they can benefit from the Grim tide node (essentially crit multi scales ridiculously well). Unfortunately necrotic isnt too well supported with aura of decay not having a conversion for it.

[pearl snow]

True, though you already get good crit multi scaling from the weapon so the advantages aren't strong enough. Plus Poison Chance is largely harder to get vs Ignite or Bleed

[hidden yew]

are you sure? a lot of the poison chance can be gained from idols with poison chance while affected by aura of decay or weaver idols with necro res + poison chance. T7 crit multi on amulet + weapon is essentially triple damage.

[glad pumice]

Does "Increased Area for Minion Area Skills" do something for wraiths or skeletons? why are people using it?

[sly forge]

I'm not sure if the grim tide node is affected by poison conversion tbh

[rocky flame]

I'm trying to smash together the Lich mastery with Minion as utility support

and want to go Low Life cuz it sound cool and I used to build low life Ward gen as defensive layer before

so Does this node stop My HP from regain back itself?

[grim trout]

uhm pros, i have a question
from what i understand, summoning abomination only requires a mage, skeletons, a wraith, and a bone golem as mentioned in its skill tree—volatile zombies don’t count, right?

[hidden yew]

It is, I tested

[sly forge]

nice but

how about bleed?

[pearl snow]

Bleed is abundant on naturally spawning gear and has a good amount from the tree. Ignite has a lot on the tree. Poison doesnt have either of those and all are equal on idols

[sly forge]

since this game has way more bleed support

thanks to the carrion gloves

[sly forge]

also this is even weirder

since the posion convert is fire to poison

necrotic remains the same

[sly forge]

it's just that poison sucks

[obtuse quest]

How? Grim tide boosts necrotic, so how is fire or poison related?

[pearl snow]

The whips go necrotic if you poison convert

[obtuse quest]

I recall that because I tested that with my own two hands, but how is grim tide affected by the converts?

[pearl snow]

I forgot but should have known you tested this basically on launch lmao

[obtuse quest]

I yearn for a poison hit

The copium never stops

[pearl snow]

one day ™

I yearn for big bolt

[tender ridge]

grimtide makes fissure deal more necrotic damage, whips now deal necrotic damage. pretty sure that's the only interaction

with all the different ways there are to apply plague, i really wish there was a way to scale it to the moon

but any hit skill that could apply it with a bunch of multis you're better off just going crit

and it doesn't stack so it would only be good for clear

i'm also kind of at the point where I don't really want to run non-necrotic stuff nowadays because i don't wanna be stuck with AoD in my build at all times

[hidden yew]

The whips after poison conversion deal necrotic damage

[tender ridge]

things like this wouldn't apply to poisons or damned applied by spirits right?

[obtuse quest]

The question claims that grim tide itself would be affected by the conversion, where it doesn't touch it at all, that was the confusing part.

[sonic wind]

The poison node in drain life claims to convert the on kill explode to poison...

but gives no details so who knows

[wise leaf]

Is poison skeleton rogues any decent?

[obtuse quest]

Unless proven otherwise, poison converts do physical hit damage by default.

[lost gale]

afaik Abom with plague on hit idols is the highest multi but maybe skelly mages with HS can do better, HS has some decent multis and the skelly mage mana multi should apply to it

[lost gale]

it becomes like poison nova or poison bolt, it may hit but it has 0 damage and 0 ADE so

[obtuse quest]

That's WORSE than just being a physical or necrotic hit lmao

[lost gale]

if you spec drain life to target minions and use stygian coal does it blast minions with beams?

because that would be a way to trigger bone golem's retaliation really really fast

[sly forge]

I think not

If I would go for dot necromancer minion I would rather go bleed

even for skeletons

[brazen wigeon]

what about skeleton rogues and bees

damn any lich who would pay for dis

[lost gale]

actually could plague archmage be cracked? (no it'll be bad)

[brazen wigeon]

does wraith skin trigger before or after iron mouths eat life?

[obtuse quest]

Do you use the skill first or does the skill hit an enemy first?

[tender ridge]

You can get like a 43x multi with infernal shade explosions

[lost gale]

good point.

[brazen wigeon]

I'm not ded yet!

[lost gale]

skelly mages get 40% more, 640% more @ 2k mana, 60% more from minion power, 20% more from frost lich, 130% more from archmage.

Hungering souls gets 40% more vs possessed, 100% more DOT, 60% more, 6% more per minion.

I make that ~205x plus the per minion bonus.

Poison Dread Shade would contribute too wouldn't it?

[sonic wind]

It does not.

[tender ridge]

worth noting you don't get poison pen from poison overload or access to plague bearer's staff there

[lost gale]

yeah and archmage using HS has a low hit-rate so plague on hit idols aren't gonna be terribly reliable

[tender ridge]

you could get 100% with 5 of them on a pyramid altar

[lost gale]

I'd guess that minion CDR is better overall

[tender ridge]

but you wouldn't have 100% plague uptime i don't think. not easily

[lost gale]

and idk if you can actually skill all those multis anyway

[brazen wigeon]

how does poison dread shade even work

[tender ridge]

converts the flat necrotic and more necrotic into poison chance and more poison damage respectively

[old hull]

You can scale both plague and spreading flames pretty generically with runic invocation and the attribute stacking body armor.
Will it be great? Doubtful, but if these ailments have a chance anywhere, it would probably be there.

i.e., cast one of the invocations that apply spreading flames on hit and use plaguebearer staff

[tender ridge]

i don't actually know if that body armor would even have as much of a multiplier as infernal shade or death knights

[old hull]

Almost definitely not higher than mages or other crazy acolyte minions, but you do get both and spreading flames is higher base damage

[tender ridge]

that's true

counterpoint: it's thematically weird scaling plague on runemaster

[old hull]

countercounterpoint: doubling down on a silly meme build is fun

[tender ridge]

damn, you got me

you know me too well

also I think i know the answer already but nobody confirmed last night:
these modifiers wouldn't apply to ailments from wandering spirits right?

[old hull]

Right

[tender ridge]

unfortunate

[wise leaf]

I thought ailments always inherit general more multipliers? Or does it differ case by case?

[inland ledge]

Global ones, or ones that are general (not specific to the skill)

[bold citrus]

For knowledgeable players here, I'm a big fan of the contagion + essence drain drain build in PoE 2, placing dots that spreads around is a lot of fun to play and watch (to me).
I've tried to do something similar with Spirit plague and although that works fine in campaign it seems pretty weak in empowered monolith.

The issue I see with Spirit plague is :

• It is doesn't spread other dots/debuffs
• Doesn't trigger bonus curse (because the dot doesn't trigger the hit required)

Is there any similar build in LE ? I've seen some witch fire but I'm not really convinced by it, please let me know if there are some kind of viable dot build (viable for 500+ corruption?)

Thank you for the help 🙂

[inland ledge]

The closest we got in LE is time rot

[bold citrus]

Ok so a sentinel void caster build ?

[inland ledge]

Orbs, abberoths command + time rot with rot grip is the closest to that true contagion / ED playstyle, or possibly slinger / soulrend.

Err, sort of.

You'd apply with hits / melee still.

[bold citrus]

ha ok you don't apply is with spell ?

[inland ledge]

But it's effectively screenwide.

[bold citrus]

ok I'll try and look into it I have a few aberroth's command I wanted to use in my stash xD

[inland ledge]

It is applied by a spell, but it's not a spellcaster.

You don't cast it.

[bold citrus]

it's ok

[inland ledge]

It plays sort of like shield charge RF

The old-school one

[old hull]

They inherit all stats automatically, but a few things such as effects in skill trees dependent on enemy state are not stats, so they don't get inherited unless specifically coded to.

[wintry flame]

which honestly might be worthwhile checking conditionals now. They said only a few changed to use new tech, but who knows lmao

[lost gale]

Warlock can prolif ailments a few ways.

Chthonic fissure has ailment prolif but bad multipliers for actually applying them.

Profane veil has mark of the rat which is technically global, spreads poisons and damned when u or enemy gets cursed with -res which u can automate.

Can get poison prolif on potion use too.

Soul feast can spread ailments far and wide and work with some items.

Time rot on VK is the best prolif in the game though

[wise leaf]

Makes me wonder does anyone know if the idols with increased poison damage while aod is active work with lethal concentration? As that is conditional as well

[obtuse quest]

adds increased poison damage instead of necrotic damage and increase poison chance instead of + flat necrotic damage

[bold citrus]

thx

[tender ridge]

so to add on to what other people have said already, dots come in two varieties like in PoE: Ailments and Spell DoTs. Neither of them can crit.
Ailments will usually stack(ignite, poison, frostbite, electrify, bleed, damned, timerot), but some are stronger initially and don't stack(spreading flames, plague, eviscerate). They don't scale with the hit or damage type of the thing applying them, but they do scale with most modifiers on the skill tree that applied them.
Spell DoT almost never stacks, scales with added spell damage which has damage effectiveness applied per second, and new instances usually override old ones. They're notoriously bad at scaling which is what you encountered. Only a couple of them are able to scale up to true endgame and it's a pain point for a lot of people in here lol

[bold citrus]

Yeah it's a little sad

[lost gale]

wandering spirits can do decent damage but it's really clunky

sentinel has a really good spell dot build in judgement aura (RF-ish I guess)

[bold citrus]

Yeah I wanted to like it but the randomness of the spirit is annoying xD

maybe the secret is to stack all ailments + Ailment overload but even then I don't think it would go well in high corruption because you spread out too many different damage source

Not sure the DoT would be enough

Ailment don't get bonuses fro + spell damage

only curses can and curses don't stack

[lost gale]

ailments can be used for ~1k corruption alright

[bold citrus]

ha ok

like you mean the Judgement paladin?

[lost gale]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/chaos-bolts-lich-guide nope this is a perfectly good ailment build that can kill UA

not nearly as fast or safely as the best builds can, but it's decent enough

[bold citrus]

Nice thanks for the link I'll try to see how it works

[tender ridge]

yeah bleed chaos bolts is very strong

i didn't want to recommend it since you were talking about specifically EDC

the carrion gloves kinda have a prolif feel, but the bleeds from the gloves don't really scale

[bold citrus]

I'm kinda sand that it's not Warlock but I guess I can try it

[tender ridge]

I have a bleed warlock that would be fantastic if they fixed the bug in it lol

[bold citrus]

What's the bug?

[tender ridge]

there's a node on soul feast that doesn't scale properly. it has 1/5th of the damage it should have

and the damage is still decent as is

[bold citrus]

Soul feast was one I was looking at but never felt good xD

maybe that's the reason maybe it's just I don't know how to make it work well

[tender ridge]

this node doesn't scle with points allocated. it's always 1% per 100 missing

[lost gale]

lich just gets more %inc damage via reaper form than warlock does by a lot

warlock has lots of cool nodes that interact with dots but not so much raw scaling

[wintry flame]

they should, it's a stat sheet increase while under AoD, not based on enemy status or anything.

[bold citrus]

yeah I think it's a little sad, Lich seems to have too much of the scaling thing

[lost gale]

warlock does have some cool stuff eg it's surprisingly competitive for spell damage builds because of how much flat damage you can get from self-tormenting with fissure

[bold citrus]

I did a torment buildlast season and it was ok but I was struggling at curruption 300, dying too fast etc killing bosses was super slow, had to make and erasing strike VK for bosses

[wintry flame]

@wise leaf even generic multipliers can apply to them if you get them for yourself.

[lost gale]

profane veil orbs are really cool too but their main damage scaling (per curse on the target) doesn't work for ailments

[lost gale]

torment doesn't cut it anymore, should really roll back the nerfs they made to it because it wouldn't even be a good build in 1.4

[tender ridge]

eh, not all mastery passives are utilized anyway

or are just really generic

[lost gale]

I meant that bottom line not the warlock mastery bonus

[tender ridge]

OH you were talking about profane veil

I completely blanked on that first bit lol

[lost gale]

yeah an ailment build using those orbs could be sweet

[tender ridge]

i'm gonna add that to my wishlist for 1.5: make all conditional multipliers affect ailments and subskills properly

[lost gale]

if it worked

[lost gale]

this plus turn all Hit only modifiers into generic ones

[tender ridge]

honestly i still use it in my bleed build anyway. it applies a boatload of bleeds and the initial hit chunks

[tender ridge]

no i'm actually fine with that. i think it's good for skills to be dedicated hit skills, but they need to actually function at that job

or having hit modifiers on crit branches of the skill trees

seems reasonable to me

[lost gale]

with good gear crit is usually better even for skills that have huge generic multipliers and low ADE (except where time rot is involved I guess)

[tender ridge]

well yeah because it's another multiplicative scaling vector that DoTs don't have access to

that was another thing on my wish list

1. General spelldot overhaul
2. Generic DoT multi or DoT multi that is split between types like generic, spell, and ailment
3. Conditional more multis apply to ailments and subskills across the board

and 4. shaman+tempest strike rework

[bold citrus]

Maybe they just need to have a new scaling mechanic with a specific unique. Like imagine a Torment wand that is:
Torment can be stacked for every 200% dot damage increase.
So if you have 400% Dot damage increase you can stack torment 3 times on a target

[tender ridge]

Ironically torment was one of the better spell dots at first because it had crazy scaling on the fissure tree

And really they just need a dot multi stat because almost all DoTs suffer. The only ones that are good have insane multipliers on the skill trees or are time rot

[old hull]

They do.
Stuff where the condition is decided at time of casting is converted to stats on cast (this is also how attribute scaling gets applied).
Stuff that is just a buff effect is always active as a stat on you while the buff is active (this is probably more accurately how those AoD idols apply, since it shows in your char sheet).

[wise leaf]

Hmm ok. How does than for example the dmg from swadling of the erased or phantom mire work? My guess would be the "more dmg" gets applied on cast (if the condition is met) and an ailment inherits the "more dmg"?

[lost gale]

ailments aren't spells or melee so Melee Damage to High Health Enemies and Spell Damage to Low Health Enemies doesn't apply to them

even if they're applied by spells or melee

brutality works because it's more damage with melee skills not more melee damage which is a tricky distinction

[wise leaf]

oh yeah of couse, mb

but for phantom mire it should work then, thats general more dmg

[old hull]

Ailments can technically be spells or melee, curses are usually spell ailments

and yes, global conditionals do get passed down through skills, subskills, and ailments

So even though both those gloves cannot determine the state at cast time (because they depend on enemy state), the conditional gets inherited by ailments because it's global and not tied to a specific skill

[wise leaf]

okay i see, so only from skill nodes itself its not guarenteed

[old hull]

Yeah, or some unique that grants X for a specific skill

[wise leaf]

okay clear, thanks for the help 🙂

[old hull]

They recently made one specific enemy conditional modifier from a skill tree apply to ailments (a black hole node), I hope they go across the board and either make them inherit or make the words in the nodes at least clearly state that they don't apply to subskills/ailments

We can dream

[wise leaf]

hmm yea

guess this isnt that impactful for casuals, so no priority prob

[tender ridge]

oh yeah i guess there's technically a couple of melee DoTs aren't there

eviscerate, locust swarm

aftershock

[old hull]

Yeah, a couple, but only one is an ailment afaik, lacerate

which is a totally garbage ailment of course

[tender ridge]

yeah lacerate, not eviscerate

[lost gale]

it looks much worse than a single dot aftershock

[bold citrus]

Most ailment aren't spells nor melee, the ones that are are exceptions 🙂

[tender ridge]

yus

[bold citrus]

There also curse which are a different family of debuff, sometimes are spells, sometimes are not

but I think they all are ailment

[tender ridge]

actually i think all curses are spells

[bold citrus]

it's a bit of a mess tbf

[bold citrus]

Ho yeah? I don't think penance is

Mark of death isn't either

[tender ridge]

it is. it deals spell damage

[bold citrus]

Hum, ... if that's the case I didn't know

[tender ridge]

mark of death might not be. same with the new cold one

if you want to get really technical, any buff or debuff of any kind is an ailment

some are positive, some are negative

[bold citrus]

it's a bit all over the place, I wish there was a more structure like This is a curse because of this or that rule

[tender ridge]

but when talking about damaging ailments, the game 99% of the time is referring to specifically ignite, frostbite, electrify, poison, bleed, damned, and time rot

[bold citrus]

yeah

[lost gale]

only acid skin isn't a spell of the damage dealing curses iirc.

[bold citrus]

Mark of death too no?

[lost gale]

but curse damage is bugged right now, some of the things which say they add +flat curse damage don't work