💀┃acolyte

[sand turret]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/abomination-necromancer-guide?_gl=1*qjrrws*_up*MQ.._gaNzc5Mzk1MjA2LjE3NzI0NTExNzc._ga_8TEVGCYPY5czE3NzI0NTExNzckbzEkZzAkdDE3NzI0NTExNzckajYwJGwwJGgw

Is this the full snapshot way to summon abomination?
Didn’t you have to respec skills and stuff?

Under the gameplay section in the above link

[rich stag]

Minion army build? Barely normal Aberoth viable with really good gear. No chance with Uber.

[forest gyro]

Yeah any was rather laborious

[wintry flame]

That version doesn't have the damage but there are versions that do. But yeah army is tough to manage in boss scenarios. We'd need like a better way to manage minion survivability in them.

[zenith swallow]

hey guys im wondering if a flay lich benefits from frenzy on boots or should i get a different affix

[rich stag]

Frenzy is always nice to have

Not sure I would want to give up another stat on the boots though

Maybe if you have a 3LP

Take Movement, Hybrid Life and then Frenzy

[tender ridge]

those boots you showed the other day are honestly good

the ones you said you used on your bladedancer

[zenith swallow]

ah ok thanks 🙂

[zenith swallow]

whats the best way to fix my mana issues with flay?

[tender ridge]

get more mana and use the unique axe. the build does not function without the unique axe

[zenith swallow]

this is good right

[vapid kindle]

ideally you want one with 4% crit but that’s still good, and i would prefer crit multi over attack speed as it gives you similar damage without increasing mana cost

just make sure you are using harvest off cooldown on rares/bosses and you should be fine

[zenith swallow]

ah okay thanks

so if i get crit multi instead of attack speed i will have less mana issues?

[zenith swallow]

what causes attack speed to increase mana cost?

[vapid kindle]

your mana usage is from the spells getting triggered by flay, so more attacks = more mana used, and your mana recovery comes from harvest which is cooldown based so attack speed doesn't recover more mana

[zenith swallow]

oh i see

so should i get crit multi on this instead of attack speed as well

[vapid kindle]

i probably would if it's not too hard, with that much attack speed it would be really hard to sustain mana

[zenith swallow]

so are you saying i might not need frenzy on my boots?

[vapid kindle]

i mean it's gonna still be good for dmg for sure, i would probably start by swapping the attack speed for crit multi on one weapon, see if you're still having mana problems. if you are, do the same for the other weapon, and then the boots.

[zenith swallow]

will do

[zenith swallow]

so i should only be using harvest on rare enemies right

[vapid kindle]

for sure or champions or exiled mages. but if it’s off cooldown and there’s none around just use it on the biggest pack

[zenith swallow]

ah ok thanks

[zenith swallow]

so let me get this straight. to regain mana i either hit a rare/boss enemy or as many white mobs at once will work the best?

with harvest

[vapid kindle]

ye boss/rare is preferred but you wanna use it whenever its off cooldown so if there’s none just the biggest pack you can hit

[zenith swallow]

how much crit do i need to max out on this build?

[hollow flint]

100%

[vapid kindle]

you want 100% spell crit for sure, traitors tongue and axe gives you a lot of flat so you just need some increased from there

[zenith swallow]

with the node i dont necessarily need to max the crit on my character sheet right?

[fleet reef]

you have to calculate it manually. is there any more non flat crit in the tree?

[rich stag]

Mana per second goes up, not the cost

[fleet reef]

if there's no extra crit in the flay skill tree, your crit is 69% (nice)

5+4+3+12+6=30
50+80=130
30*1.3+30=69

[zenith swallow]

did you look up my profile?

[fleet reef]

yeah

[zenith swallow]

my goal is to get that to 100%

[fleet reef]

if you added another 100% non flat, it would get to 99%

[zenith swallow]

i can get that on a 1lp red ring

[zenith swallow]

are you back to playing some LE on your bladedancer?

[fleet reef]

nah i logged in and tried a bit but cant be bothered

i wanted to make a 10k video but its gonna take too long to get from 8600

[tender ridge]

this doesn't apply to the chaos bolts and marrow shards that are triggered by flay. Marrow Shards has a ton of flat crit on its own tree that you have to calculate with. iirc chaos bolts doesn't have any crit related stuff, but it's been a while and I can't remember

remember, you're using flay as your main skill, but all of the damage is coming from the spells that it triggers. the explosions being the least of them

[zenith swallow]

oh okay thanks

[tender ridge]

you do still need that node since the marrow shards trigger is on crit I think, but it's important to know that it doesn't apply to the triggered casts. you'll still need to invest in the crit nodes on MS

[zenith swallow]

i have the crit on marrow shards but not destructive intensity on chaos bolts

[zenith swallow]

another question. do some people put mana+mana regen on their weapons or is crit multi the better choice?

[vapid kindle]

that's not crit chance for marrow shards or chaos bolts, where your damage comes from. that's only crit chance for flay itself so it doesn't do anything

[zenith swallow]

got it 🙂

[sand turret]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/abomination-necromancer-guide#gameplay-header

is there no more snapshottting that's available now?

why do they only summon 1 skele mage, wraith and bone golem? does it not work to summon several and increase abomination power and then spec into infernal shade as well for more scaling?

[obtuse quest]

Abom only takes the last 20 minions used as fodder, and since abom only takes the minion's health and type into account, they don't need more than one copy of the other minions.

[wintry flame]

you still snapshot it's just the 20 minions tho and then swap you skills to the ones you use.

[tender ridge]

hot damn

if only it wasn't 1lp

[night hemlock]

You can reroll the LP

[muted mist]

If you imprint it, the imprint drops can copy the rolls, probably not too hard to find a 2LP with the same +3 all skill rolls that way

[tender ridge]

tru

it was just a random drop when I was getting bones on my BM lol. not too concerned with it, just thought it was fun

[zenith swallow]

im having a lot of fun on my lich 🙂

[hollow flint]

yeah, flay feels really nice

[zenith swallow]

for chaos bolts is it okay for me to have cold damage

it scales with it right

the call of morditas node

[hollow flint]

I play phys flay without chaos bolts or marrow, so sadly I have no clue

[zenith swallow]

can i see your planner for phys flay? 🙂

[hollow flint]

I dont have one at hand, sry 🙁

[muted mist]

The conversion node converts the base fire damage and any untyped flat added damage you have, so if you have a wand with +40 spell damage that doesn't specify a type, it would now add 20 cold and 20 necrotic instead of 20 fire and 20 necrotic. Added flat damage with a type will be that type regardless, if you had +20 cold damage from a wand the conversion doesn't affect that. If you're using cold flay, converting to cold chaos bolts is worth doing if you are stacking increased cold damage. If you don't have any increased or more cold damage, it doesn't really matter (though the ailment conversion might)

[zenith swallow]

so if i have 115% increased cold damage on an item it would affect class of morditas?

[muted mist]

Yep.

[zenith swallow]

got it thank you )

🙂

and obviously necrotic too

[long osprey]

anyone got a early endgame warlock build they can link me

[muted mist]

Infernal Shade pop is straightforward to get online and I understand it to be quite effective. Good clear and good bossing if you're willing to weapon swap for bosses.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/omnRz1qA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4rlL-VPdzKA

[stuck owl]

Warlock, Level 89

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (2) / Warlock (80)

General:

▸ Health: 1,964, Regen: 53.48/s
▸ Mana: 253.95, Regen: 23.28/s
▸ Ward Retention: 291%, Regen: 75/s
▸ Attributes: 0 Str / 0 Dex / 32 Int / 0 Att / 1 Vit
▸ Resistances: 77% / 72% / 34% / 115% / 96% / 138% / 29%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 393
▸ Armor Mitigation: 27% (1,121)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 30%

Used skills:

Transplant / Chthonic Fissure / Infernal Shade / Spirit Plague / Bone Curse

This build has a guide:

Zero To Hero Cthonic Fissure Infernal Shade Warlock LE Build Guide Showcase W/Leveling by Dr3adful

[night hemlock]

Is it worth it to stack Endurance still even when you reach 100% Block Chance on an Abom build?

I know you get more damage still from the Relic but not sure how impactful that really is

[wintry flame]

I mean it depends on the options

[night hemlock]

I was just going to probably put phys res on a ring to make Aura of Decay a bit safer to run

For now I have switched Aura of Decay completely out of my build for Infernal Shade

[wintry flame]

I'd just look at is it worth getting the extra more dmg and health vs whatever other options you have. I personally like using most of the endurance I stack to cap my block and try to reduce flat block I get else where to run things like Less Damage Taken on Block, T7 Block Effect. All Res, or anything else to round out my defenses

[night hemlock]

The only hole in my defences would be phys res if I run Aura of Decay

I can drop endurance on a single ring and still be block capped just about

I'll probably just keep it the way it is for simplicities sake

[wintry flame]

do you take flat block on shield?

[night hemlock]

I don’t have it no

Got block effective, less damage on block and endurance on shield

[wintry flame]

I guess you’re good then

[smoky relic]

[alpine narwhal]

hey yall, i am trying to decide whether i should go for Chaos Bolt Lich or Rip Blood Lich build
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/chaos-bolts-lich-guide
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/rip-blood-lich-guide

in terms of gameplay style i love both, but i was wondering if anyone has played both and can tell me their opinions

[hollow flint]

„The build also has good mobility thanks to unspecialized Transplant.“

Man those guides are all AI slop now? Would any human write something like this?

Good mobility = can use the absolute baseline stuff for getting around

[alpine narwhal]

thanks for pointing that out, i lose all my objectivity when i am trying new builds. i have no confidence to build my own

[hollow flint]

You dont need confidence for your own build. Its fun even if the build sucks in the end. Only like 1 out of 20 builds I do end up being good but I enjoyed crafting every single one of them

[lost gale]

there are a lot of builds in this game that don't have space on the bar for a traversal skill at all and transplant is a good traversal skill

even unspecialised

[alpine narwhal]

yeah that's true idk why i always have this ego battle with unknown numbers like ohhh that person was able to reach 2000 corruption why do i only get to go to up to 1100????
like it's so stupid the way i think. i should just have fun. thanks man

[stuck pendant]

Hey guys

Im looking for DoT warlock build

And is it good class to start?

[hollow flint]

Thats true, but those builds have bad mobility. Calling something good mobility just because it has place for unspecced transplant? Thats kinda stupid imo

[night hemlock]

It's good

[stuck pendant]

Okay boss

Its a dot class yes?

[vapid kindle]

most mobility skills in the game (including transplant) don’t actually improve the mobility component at all by being specced (unless they are fixed distance or not a mobility skill baseline) unspecced transplant is better mobility wise than anything sentinel or primalist has, unspecced transplant is great mobility.

it’s nearly instant, goes to your cursor and goes through walls. not sure what else you could want out of a mobility skill

[tacit plinth]

I am the only one able to keep with my friend warpath character ty to unspecced transplant and lich mobility

Unspecced transplant its pretty goated

[old hull]

Specced transplant does get CDR and haste on cast, but yeah unspecced it's still one of the best traversals in game

[vapid kindle]

the build already has haste elsewhere in this case, 15% icdr is not particularly substantial

[obtuse quest]

It can be built as a dot class yes

[hollow flint]

Nobody said that transplant is bad mobility. But calling a lich build good mobility just because it has a slot for transplant is just ridiculous. Thats like saying my build has good damage because I use a 2h weapon instead of a shield

[wintry flame]

but it is good mobility

[lost gale]

Witchfire is decent for everything except bossing

[sand turret]

I was just doing Chaos bolt in HC and died to aura of decay at the target dummies while changing passives.

Good build, love the constant leech.

Got to lvl 81 and was about to switch from poison to bleed

[vapid kindle]

what is good mobility then

[obtuse quest]

Transplant + Reap

[hollow flint]

Yes. Or anything thats more than something that everyone has. Transplant + haste. Transplant with CDR. Anything thats more than something that you always get for free

[vapid kindle]

the build you are referring to literally has both reap and haste though

[obtuse quest]

Does it have this that allows you to use both though?

Neither linked builds have them

L

[vapid kindle]

he said in the video guide that you can move points around for it, i assume this was just excluded from the written guide for the sake of brevity and not having too many planners

[obtuse quest]

For something so insanely strong, making it optional is pretty L

[vapid kindle]

i mean it’s basically like an extra evade every 7 seconds, it’s good but if the points for reaper form are tight it’s not the end of the world

also he does actually mention it in the written guide, under additional skill tips

[obtuse quest]

Evade doesn't match up with Reap since it moves you MUCH faster and I'm about 80% sure it has actual iFrames

[tacit plinth]

Reaper form is so goated likr so many good points and you definitely dont have close enough points to grab what you want , for mana flay you dont wanna make reap not share cooldown with evade ,using the three forms of movement is great play style plus the flickering style makes mapping so much fun and fast

Acolyte has great movement playstyle like rogue probably the best of all classes, Sentinel movement skills are garbo for the most part although void cleave is so satisfying and good if your build can use it,

[wintry flame]

@night hemlock I was about to reply to you. I don't have an updated planner. Ideally you'd go regen. But low life is easier to gear. I made a lazy version that should be a good blueprint. https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/df7f20g8#3

[night hemlock]

Why regen over low life?

Using the relic that gives ward as regen?

Other way around

Regen as ward

[wintry flame]

You can do Vessel, mhm you should have good ward retention. Regen has more synergy with the build and vit stacking. Also pairs well with AoD rather than being anti-synergistic.

[night hemlock]

Fair enough

[mortal niche]

what do you guys think is the best version of assemble abomination: archer, warrior, mage or wraith?

[night hemlock]

Yes

[wintry flame]

best is double strike

[stuck pendant]

is there ayn beginner guide for warlock ? i checked the icevein website but its only untill 20

[lost gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_jEdycvCQ

[stuck pendant]

is this the DoT build?

[lost gale]

it's a levelling build/guide. Look for witchfire once you're level ~70 if you want to play a beginner DOT build

[stuck pendant]

ok boss

[night hemlock]

I wonder how viable a fire minion army Necromancer is.

Probably not overly but at the same time if it could at least clear 1k corruption that would be fine.

[wintry flame]

fire minion army ain't top tier for sure. Too little support for fire on Necro atm

[muted mist]

People have certainly tried. Pyre golem winds up being sort of an army build (you can rig it so that it tries to consume your skeletons and mages but only one actually dies), I don't think that's terrible but I dunno about 1kC. The new AoD fire conversion boots next patch will be a huge boost to that build, 75% more fire damage over time for the pyre aura and a bunch of fire resist reduction to enemies.

Just running flame wraiths and pyromancer mages probably does not scale to 1k corruption this patch, but also benefits from those boots. Abberant Call flame wraiths can't use the buffed Edict. Mages and Wraiths both favor crit in their trees, which somewhat limits the ability to really leverage the boots.

[wintry flame]

Pyre golem will be good next patch for sure

would be nice to see a buff to it's DE, but it has access to a lot of flat damage which is nice. Flame Wraiths with the AoD changes will be good regardless of the DoT damage. It's a nice boost to damage even if the damage is split since you get a lot of flat necrotic for Wraiths.

[old hull]

and until dread shade gets a fire conversion, you'll always be dealing some damage type mix

[heady mortar]

I ran it to 500c, could have gone higher with better gear:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1n0anz1/minion_build_pyromancer/

Several other specs are stronger (Cold, Bleed, Poison, Profane Oblation), but it's perfectly viable with enough investment. Season 4 will make it significantly stronger, as well as open up new variants of it

[heady mortar]

Golems are a trap in every build, they're currently the weakest minion by an enormous margin. You'd want to run Pyromancers + Wraiths. Zombies are also an option, and in S4 you can also do Death Knights with Fire-type Hungering Souls

[muted mist]

The slightly dumb thing there is that you almost certainly also want to snapshot the cold damage from the Lich set into your dread shade, because almost every build wants to do that.

[muted mist]

@lost gale tried swapping my blood specter build over to using Abom, and it does work decently, I was able to hit around 16-20 specters while running around echoes pretty easily. I need to try removing the chain node, that might end up more efficient. Even if it generates fewer specters, the Abom provides some much needed AOE and it's far easier to play than the transplant version.

Will try the zombie + rip blood version some other evening, that will be more of a respec

[stuck pendant]

I see on the tier list warlock is not top tier , will there be any buff ins eason 4?

[night hemlock]

I know other things are stronger, just felt like playing a fire Necro

Might give it a shot next season

[night hemlock]

Non that are confirmed to my knowledge but it’s still possible

[stuck pendant]

Did it ever happen from previous seasons?

[wintry flame]

there are always balance adjustments. We don't know what they will be until patch notes

[muted mist]

I cannot recall any direct buffs to Warlock since the mastery was released, only indirect buffs via bugfixes and general power creep.

That said if you're looking at Maxroll, I don't see Infernal Shade pop in there and I suspect that may outperform the two builds they have. Same for Profane Veil Zombie pop, the scaling on that is a bit nuts.

In general, the S tier builds are going to be based around things that just got updated, because EHG frequently releases stuff in an overpowered state and then reigns it in next season. So I would not really expect Warlock to be there unless it gets a random unique out of the normal update cycle or until they get around to making a major update to it.

[obtuse quest]

It’s more like warlock has all of it’s power budget in fissure

[glossy bolt]

Hey everyone, i'm new in the game and playing lich, is there any way to fill the ward faster? the leech is good but since my health is just half i want my ward to be always full

[obtuse quest]

Get more ward generation, ward retention, etc.

[glossy bolt]

I'm trying to get some rn, thanks

That's perfect 500 per sec is more than enough, i'm gonna check that amulet, looks like its my solution

Thank you

[glossy bolt]

Since i dont use potions at all i think this idol is good for me also

i have 8 potions so i'll just use them for ward

with that amulet i should be always full

[stuck pendant]

So warlock its not in good spot right now and in the future? Is there any curses dot build in here?

[obtuse quest]

Realistically Warlock is in a okay/mid spot.

It's not top, but it's also not just under the dirt.

[night hemlock]

Not really any class I can think of that is completely not viable for endgame but some classes definitely do shine over others.

[night hemlock]

If you want to play it, like it sounds like you do. Just play it.

It’s fine. It’s not S tier but you can do 99% of content with Warlock, maybe even 100% but I am not really too familiar with Warlock builds as a whole.

[muted mist]

there are videos of folks killing uberroth with Warlocks; I didn't look deeply enough to see if that's doable with realistic gear and reasonable player skill, but it's definitely possible

[tacit plinth]

Infernal shade warlock or like the zombie apocalypse seem strong enough for uber ,idk never seen a video of flame whip vs uber maybe that one also good

[old hull]

Flame whip stun locked uber last I saw, idk if it was nerfed since then though

But yeah, literally all masteries can beat uber somehow

[restive cliff]

I just played this its fun but so squishy sometimes compared to primalist, if u not paying attention get like one shot pretty easy

[autumn bough]

2 min? no way ghostflame does that much dmg

its over 35 mil dps

[autumn bough]

funny enough 2 best builds imo on warlock dont use it for dmg just for acid skin

the only good fissure build now is whips

[obtuse quest]

But the utility!

But ye damage wise fissure is just okay at best now

[autumn bough]

imo profein veil is like 80% of warlock powrer

also one build on warlock that will be pretty busted next season is zombos

but its still glasss canon

[quartz quartz]

Any opinions from people who have done reaper form sustain with leech.
I'm heavily debating whether to get the 66% leech node or not.
the heal per second is almost triple but the grace period I have to avoid mechanics/move from pack to pack gets cut down from 3sec to 1.8
How often have you noticed it mattering while playing, losing the reaper form early because leech ran out or because the decay overpowered recovery from leech?

[obtuse quest]

If you're running a DoT build, you wouldn't feel a difference since your dots would leech anyway

[lost gale]

I'd skip it.

you should do more than enough dps that the health per second isn't noticeably different, but keeping that health per second running for longer between mechanics and packs makes a huge difference

[night hemlock]

I personally dropped it, I found sustain to be much more difficult with it.

Bordering on impossible even.

I found myself dropping Reaper form a lot as a result of it.

[muted mist]

I ran Aura of Decay and 120% healing effect to juice the heal-per-missing-health node, and that seemed sufficient to keep reaper form going well enough. Dropping the 66% leech node might have been the better play, though, I don't recall trying that.

[tacit plinth]

Drop that node you dont wanna limit leech ever

[hollow flint]

I like the node. It goes well with the 50% hp limit

[tacit plinth]

There are uses for it for sure but sustainability is worse with it for example a build like flay

[stuck pendant]

Is lich not recommended for beginners? I dont see any guide for it only warlock

[stuck pendant]

Not for beginner?

[stuck pendant]

Where can i get thwt item?

[crisp marlin]

it's in the picture, Soulfire Bastion Dungeon

[stuck pendant]

ah right

tyyyy

[muted mist]

The main thing about lich is reaper form; you may want to peruse the skill description before investing too heavily. Though now you can mastery swap, so if you hate it you can just swap to warlock. Lich is pretty dope this patch, a good variety of builds (they just all use reaper form). Pay attention when selecting Lich defensive passive nodes, some of them have brutal downsides. Lich is about the only mastery where you can set up your gear and passive choices in a way that causes you to die in town, a hilarious number of hardcore players found that out the hard way.

[restive cliff]

I tried lich not for me I prefer warloc but still fun, the flame whip is nice to stun lock everything

[pearl gulch]

#🧙┃mage message
random though, could the lich node "corrupted form" be bugged because it says "low life" instead of "low health" like everywhere else?
the only other instance of "low life" is in the flay tree, "decree of slaughter". is that one bugged too?

[obtuse quest]

Dance with death uses “low life” and that works perfectly fine

[pearl gulch]

roger that, i had missed that one
kinda weird they only used "low life" 3 times, for lich stuff, and the rest of the game uses "low health"

[autumn bough]

where are you looking for guides just curious 😅

lich has harvesrt, blood rip/shards, chaos bolts, the new skill whatever its called, plenty of top tier builds

[tacit plinth]

Corrupted form is bugged sadly

Lich flay is insanely fun to play and its very strong

[autumn bough]

ye it onephases uber

if anythin its warlock who has less op builds than lich but they are close

[tacit plinth]

Once mana flay is done at least harvest flay is strong not sure if marrow shards version will survive the nerfs

[autumn bough]

i personally like chaos bolts way more, dps is still through the roof but you are also immortal(almost)

the self cast ver with hp stacking+ bleed

[tacit plinth]

To be fair they need to buff the other lich builds since coal lich is not good anymore because no damage because bugs like beam cant inherit a lot of nodes in drain life

Oh mana flay is stronger just saying that is going to be dead

So we are left with harvest flay

[vapid kindle]

i really like that one, i like big tank and feels nice to play, feels nice to be actual giga tank without crutching on death seal

[autumn bough]

just try any lich guide from maxroll there is 4 others besides stygian and they are all stronger than it

[tacit plinth]

That's the point

[autumn bough]

not the tankiest one on acolyte but uup there for sure

[tacit plinth]

Maybe when corrupted form works I will try the dot one

[vapid kindle]

idk what acolyte is tankier maybe abom? but i don’t like abom in maps, snapshot shade helps but still not my thing

[autumn bough]

the tankies is infernal shade necro

it gets to 9k+ hp and 15k+ ward and capped armor

[vapid kindle]

oh true i haven’t played it much i kinda struggled with the rotation tbh with my carpal tunnel

[autumn bough]

ye its 5 button smashing build with timing, maybe you can automate it i didnt bother

abom is same tankiness as bolts

so those 2 are top 2/3

technically warlock can be considered best tankiness but its situational cause depends if you actually manage to get 100% uptime of veil when you need it

but i facerolled uber fight on it so pretty safe even if you dont tryharf

[vapid kindle]

i will probably revisit warlock when acid skin is fixed

profane veil is fun build one of my favs that you did for sure but acid skin bug was holding it back a lot for me

[autumn bough]

its bugged this patch last patch it was way more consistent and not bugged

but i was testing offline only

so

🤷‍♀️

[vapid kindle]

yeah it was terrible online this season too, last season it was fine but having to do like 10 fissures just to apply on uber every time was giga annoying, hopefully it’s fixed season 4

[autumn bough]

cringeeee

its actually one of my fav builds on acolyte

therycrafted it a lot this patch too

my fav version is the mage wand one for free flame ward

abom infernal shade and veil balls, top3 fun for me on aco

[vapid kindle]

i saw your version for season 3 after i already farmed gear for volca version, next season if acid skin is fixed ill try it with bone wand

if this season keeps me interested long enough anyways, if it’s another season of trove meta zzz ill probs quit before then xd

[autumn bough]

next patch zombos for sure on warlock if we can cook smth that is not clunky/zhp

everything else should stay within current power levels

[autumn bough]

its hard to measure which one was better with how inconsistent and bugged it was

in theory volcas should do more dmg

but losing flame ward is pepeL

there is also another ver in my planner with the primordial idol chest

[vapid kindle]

ye true, wasn’t ladle more dmg bugged on that build too or smth?

[autumn bough]

laddle mega nerfed this patch since you stack way less on rip blood

[vapid kindle]

might be giga in season 4 with the buff and depending on what idol altars do

true

[autumn bough]

ye if you get ggg idols

chest should be very strong

and its also dodge capped

kinda

so another layer of defense when you arent veiling

[vapid kindle]

nice

[tacit plinth]

Maybe its me but I would love that this was per 20 health max instead of missing health

[obtuse quest]

It would a node so free everyone and their mom would take it if it was only based on max health

[tacit plinth]

Its a dot it wouldn't do anything for hit based and this build already doesn't deal insane damage

A proper health stacker like you know static orb is all I need ,like you know when you play blood mage in poe 2

[obtuse quest]

It’s on a subclass that has a dot focus by default.

Must pick nodes just feel bad.

[night hemlock]

Anyone got a Pyre Golem build planner? Trying to make it work and looking for ideas.

[stuck pendant]

questrion why i cant get pass that?

[carmine tangle]

if you pick sub-class another sub-classes have half of the tree

[tired tendon]

Yeah you can only progress in one right

The others are half way

[carmine tangle]

so if you pick druid - druid have full tree + other two have half of the tree

[stuck pendant]

ah

so i have to make a new character?

how to make lich as my main class?

[vale kindle]

End of Time, around level 20, you have a story quest moment where you can pick your specialization. Addendum: It can be hard to figure where it's at, as you have to climb a spiral staircase to get to the upper level and kid you not, I've missed it several times.

If you decide to change later, there's respec NPCs, one of which is also in End of Time.

[wintry flame]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/2iuat0y4#1

[night hemlock]

Will take a look, thank you.

Pretty similar to what I was thinking, why Lich’s Scorn though? Purely for the flat damage?

I was thinking something a bit more defensive

Like an Exalted Opulent Focus

I’d love to go max block but not really sure if the trade off would be worthwhile

[red steppe]

If you go to the purple head icon in the end of time you can change mastery for a gold fee

[wintry flame]

yeah, you snapshot it and then put the shield on for skele resummon

[night hemlock]

Ahh

[wintry flame]

Would be nice to fit Decrepify via Pearls or even have a way to get mostly phys damage and use Tyrant's + Bone Curse buff but I didn't test any of that.

[sly forge]

so far why there is almost no patch note in this day? It's almost season 4 releasing day

[old hull]

The patch is still a couple weeks out. Next week is hype week, patch notes release at the end of that (the 20th).

[sly forge]

well I'm excited for the next patch

especially how flame wraith and skeleton will be better

[muted mist]

Tried to play cold army Necro again last night. How much gear do I need to get in order for my army to not burn to death from infernal Shade between echoes while I sort through the loot?

I'm probably just gonna respec back to the cold DoT version with chaos bolts and/or AoD and drop Infernal Shade, sigh

[wintry flame]

You just need enough regen to sustain its max damage tick. There are ways to minimize its damage as well

[muted mist]

Hrm. One exalted minion health regen affix enough, if I get them some resists vis passives and weaver idols? That would be worth it for the QoL (in combat they leech just fine so I had not bothered, and I'd previously been running a different setup that didn't need it)

I'm gonna have to swap away from my bone wisp wand also, if the minion damage scales with my stats and I believe it does

[old hull]

It does, one of the main ways to minimize shade damage is to use a non-spell weapon like an axe or sword (apogee is really good for cold minions anyway)

no way to get around int scaling it though

[muted mist]

I think I have a 2LP apogee but not yet anything to slam onto it. Not sure I have found a 1LP yet, that will ikely be easier to find an exalted for

[sly forge]

Hmm, I still wonder if the Ash Wake boots will cause aura of decay to inflict fire res instead. Because from the information so far, it only inflicts ignite instead of poison

and if yes, then Idk how should I use fire aura of decay for this infernal shade necro build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x90sd09reU

it has 5 necessary nodes already: zombie, sacrifice, dread shade, infernal shade, rip blood

but i just feel bad since fire aura of decay will give a lot of fire pen

on the other hand, flame wraith will benefit a lot from the build

because it only needs 4 necessary nodes: wraith, drain life, dread shade, summon zombie

so the fifth node will be aura of decay

[old hull]

Phys converted AoD reduces enemy phys resistance, and cold reduces cold res. It would definitely be a bug if the fire conversion doesn't reduce enemy fire res.

[sly forge]

hmm, then flame wraith will definitely be buffed

but hard to say for infernal shade

all 5 skills there cannot be replaced

[vale kindle]

Having played flame wraith in 1.0, I do have to ask: How is mobility factored in? Transplant was a necessary skill for both a teleport effect and an extra buff to survivability for a few seconds.
And also, we have this funny situation where unspecced skills are valid choices if an actively used skill triggers another speccable skill, and I have not kept up with minion necro since, well... 1.0.

[rich stag]

I don’t think too much has changed fundamentally

[muted mist]

1.1 added evade which helps with the mobility, and Necro has gotten a LOT of defensive tools since 1.0. Still good, would not call it mandatory.

[sand turret]

didn't entering an echo used to reset the CD of reaper form?

[muted mist]

I believe that has always been an oft-requested feature

[azure dawn]

What’s the best way to level lich

[muted mist]

Fissure Lock (and then respec) was the meta last patch for pure speed, not sure if the new lich options have outpaced that.

I used Harvest and Bone Curse, then Aura of Decay, and that felt smooth, but I was in the mood to whack things and I also had excellent Nemesis luck. Rip Blood and Wandering Spirits until you unlock bone curse. I should have mixed in Flay as soon as I got it. Flay is strong and satisfying.

The best way is to use a skill you enjoy that isn't underpowered; I expect there are lots of options. Rip Blood triggering marrow shards felt a little clunky early. Chaos Bolts ought to be smooth. Ghost flame is kind of expensive but should be extremely fast once you get enough mana regen.

[azure dawn]

gotcha i didn't ge tto play season 3 so wanted to play it before season 4 drops and wanted to do lich

[muted mist]

Flay is definitely the 'Season 3 Lich Experience', it has synergies with harvest, chaos bolts, and rip blood, so there's lots of ways to level into it.

[muted mist]

Is this using any particular method of popping the shades to trigger the Combustion explosion? There was a zombie version of this back in the day, wasn't sure it was still competitive. Worked by forcing infernal Shade to attach to your zombies and expire when they exploded

[wintry flame]

You still run zombies at least on Cycle. Infernal Shade pops when overwritten on minions

Also enabling it to be on minions will kill them and spawn wraiths/more shades.

[lost gale]

ash wake boots are certainly interesting, do we know what the respawn delay is?

[muted mist]

1s presumably to match Cycle, but not confirmed

[lost gale]

is it the same wording as cycle? I can't remember

it read like the skeletons thing which is 3s (and kind of sucks as a result)

they're really pushing minion ignite hard, Zombies can use serpent's milk for it as the fire conversion node converts poison chance from all sources.

[muted mist]

I don't recall but to my knowledge all respawn mechanics for a particular minion type have the same delay so far.

[lost gale]

I looked and it's the same language

I'm not sure how big a deal it'll be tbh, the rings already give you a probabilistic chance to sustain more zombies than one per ring

eg when you use two rings and 4 zombies the first to explode has a 50% chance to resurrect already

[wintry flame]

Ignite Blood Spectres or Wraiths would probably be the best ignite variation. Using Wildfire Embers and Ghostflame produces interesting results. It's just a difficult build to manage.

[lost gale]

Zombies can get some decent multis if you blow them up with CB

But yeah more minions hitting more often is probably the way to go, especially if they fix the damage multis on blood specters

[autumn bough]

zeckar

what in the god names are u smoking there

[wintry flame]

what?

[tender ridge]

shouldn't apocalypse zombies be able to apply some pretty thicc ignites

[autumn bough]

why would u ever go ignites over crits on that

😱

[lost gale]

yeah but then you gotta play a cooldown piano build with jank

[tender ridge]

idk you want ignites on a minion build? I wasn't talking about the relative value of it vs crits

[lost gale]

just to see how much they've pushed this ignite minions stuff

[autumn bough]

👀

abom ignites

or wraiths

kekekek

wraiths with gf were already pretty pog from what i remember

wait am i cooked

[lost gale]

also zombies can convert the poison chance from serpent's milk into ignites. clearly worth giving up +all skills on your amulet for

[stuck pendant]

Whats the fastest build to farm monolit?

[old hull]

Regular old skeletons look pretty solid for ignites, funnily enough. Spirit kindling has potential, but hard to manage is real, that specific setup is probably not my style.

[wintry flame]

idk if anything would come close to wraiths with the amount of ignite and fire pen you get

[tacit plinth]

@wintry flame yo zeckar can you please explain to me the whole lich set snapshot for abomination like step by step cause I don't know if I am doing it right,the summoning process is done fine.

[wintry flame]

yeah after the summoning process you would just swap gloves/offhand to lich's set, spec infernal shade with + 1 shade and duration if you want to use the arena dummies to put out the shades or you can spec to attach to minions and summon 10 to put them on. Then you can either have a point in Dread Shade go to +1 shade or ignore, it's just +15 cold flat. throw out 10 shades, then dread shade Abom and swap back to shield/julra's or whatever gloves you have

You can then respec your infernal shade to put on abom and if you want a 2nd dread shade can respec it to put on enemies or a throw away minion and get double dread shade buffs, only really necessary on bosses or if you need the armor

Oh and don't zone transition with the lich's set on after summoning lmao, make sure you have your other glove/offhand on

[tacit plinth]

I think I made this mistake cause I had no shades on abomination

Ok so I can attach all the shades to minion cool rather easier ty you man to be fair this build slaps uber so hard and I dont even use aura of decay which I should

[wintry flame]

yeah, you could use bone prison or something and do it that way

[old hull]

Fire pen from what? Seems like wraith has very few things going for it aside from spirit kindling and a fire skill to make use of that little warlock node

[wintry flame]

fire res stacking with wildfire embers

you get the benefit from stacking it for the passive and the ignite chance

[old hull]

You'd probably have to lean heavily into spirit kindling and use the +12 wraith staff while losing out on the dragon staff

[old hull]

Ah, I see what you mean. Eh, stacking temporary buffs with a finnicky skill on temporary minions, all which cost a lot of mana, just doesn't sound too appealing imo

unless you sacrifice the big multiplier of having so many wraiths to do the twin wraiths for QoL

[wintry flame]

You can run the staff without + max wraiths. Someone has a vid of sub 1min dummy using perma wraiths and revenant

it's quite the headache ngl, but there is def a build there

[old hull]

From my calcs, raw ignite multiplier for 2 type skele setup (rogue + X) is about 7-8 times the multiplier on 2 perma flame wraiths

granted, that doesn't account for spirit kindling at all

[wintry flame]

yeah, I mean how much ignite chance would skeles even get like 400-500%? Wraiths can get insane ignite and pen easily 1500% chance and 100% fire pen. you'd also have to include dread shade with all for one and the attack speed bonuses with their more attack speed node

[old hull]

I'm not really sure how much they would get tbh. I think about 400%?

Based on 1500% ignite chance and 100% fire pen (ignoring fire pen for skeles entirely), you're just breaking even with skeles

I think you can get a lot more ignite chance than that with spirit kindling though tbf

So definitely you can get more dps with wraiths + revenant (if you can keep it up, ofc)

Maybe it'll be worth it for people who want to rush down bosses, can't see myself running echoes with that ever though

[hidden sable]

on fissure when it's phys or poison converted, does it effect spirits or flame whip now?

I login and found the infernal shade explosion converted to phys makes phys explosion thats new, if fissure got the same treatment it makes some cool stuff happen

[stoic flame]

What’s the odds we have some non abom necro builds that challenge abom with the fire stuff?

I fixed that typo

I meant non ABOM

Not non minion lol

I just reviewed the new items and there HAS GOT to be some new minion fire builds for necro

Man that’s so much fire minion (and some cold minion) support

[obtuse quest]

No, still doesn't. Probably won't effect whips ever since it's effectively a subskill.

[obtuse quest]

New builds? Most likely.
Challange abom? Not likely from the current looks

[hidden sable]

spine tooltip should say 'most' instead of 'all' if they want to gatekeep it

[obtuse quest]

It's mostly "intended" because all subskills to my knowledge never gave a care to converts.

[vale kindle]

Indeed, the whole discussion around abom vs other minions is more the staying power. A smart necromancer knows that if they're stuck constantly (re)summoning the minions, they open themselves up to a slip up that means a failed echo. Outside of abomination, all other minions never keep up in ability to stay on the field, down to being one-shot at higher corruption levels, where the abom takes some damage and then heals it back up through leech or something.
Losing the abom is a big problem, sure, but it's strong enough to not die easily.

It's where the old single big skelly mage had potential. A singular minion also means all the minion damage has a single source and is thus consistent.

[tacit plinth]

Abomination never dies will have to see if the zombies can carry necro or Abomination still broken

[vale kindle]

Minions will always have a sort of maximum corruption they can handle by virtue of them dying, not necessarily the player character. But the player character does their damage through their minions.

I played fire wraiths the first time around, back at release version. Insisted enough that I got to around 400 corruption. I felt the cap because the wraith "turrets" would just die as they got hit and I would spend a lot of time resummoning them as I try to stay alive myself and maybe also move forward in the echo...

Believe you me, a singular entity that either never dies or can easily be resummoned in one cast is vastly preferable to resummoning several minions to keep up the damage potential.

[sly forge]

we have seen zombie carry warlock already, which is... weird

[hidden sable]

A lot of subskills convert

[autumn bough]

im warlock beliver

will wait for patchnotes but with good play veil is on par/safer than abom

just need some dps buffs in next patch which i know some already there

[autumn bough]

you can play infernal shade/zombies that is technically somewhat minion or minion based builds

[autumn bough]

zombies are much better on warlock not necro

[autumn bough]

op, not weird build will be S tier next patch

[vale kindle]

In terms of acolyte, wasn't marrow shards the one skill that got left behind so badly that it had no damage conversions?
And mind that I misread your reply... apologies.

[autumn bough]

what do you mean left behind?

self cast br/shards are 35 mil dps this patch

it hasnt been updated in a while but its not a weak skill by any means

[vale kindle]

That speaks more to the idea that the devs actually can balance the numbers such that such a skill that was not updated in ages can still perform. I was more onto that I don't really know of another skill that cannot have its (singular) damage type converted.

Right, I stand corrected.

[autumn bough]

i mean u dont need to convert every single skill imo

[vale kindle]

Of course not. The ability to is what enables alternate builds on the same skill.

That opens up something of a can of worms on top of skills doing damage conversions within themselves.

In that, depending on how modifiers are actually calculated, it could involve some sort of double-dipping. (Notoriously, elemental damage applying to a cold converted to fire skill in both cold and fire damage)

[autumn bough]

theyll nerf flay next patch and lich will be the most dogshite acolyte mastery but tbf it already is except for chaos bolts

[vale kindle]

chaos bolts being a warlock skill.

[autumn bough]

no its lich build

worse on warlock

[vale kindle]

Flay is a skill on the lich path. On the lich-exlusive part of the path. Converesly, chaos bolts is a warlock path skill. In the first half that all acolytes have acess to.

[autumn bough]

ye but its not warlock exclusive so calling it a warlock skill is kinda eh

[vale kindle]

Flay is strong mostly because it offers mana stacking scaling as well as a bunch of triggers for other skills.

[autumn bough]

zdps tho

[tacit plinth]

Maybe apocalypse warlock will be op idk i am interested to see how it will perform same with skeletal rogues

[vale kindle]

I believe a flay that does not trigger anything is somewhat... not that special?

[autumn bough]

how much dmg are we talking about?

[tacit plinth]

Its an A tier at best while harvest does the most single target damage

[autumn bough]

but whats the tech? outside of snapshotting people already did that with double julra ring etc

and it wasnt big dps

[tacit plinth]

Marrow shards not having a necro conversion is bad,a lot of skills in this game desperately need more conversions it takes a while for ehg to implement them

[sly forge]

By weird I mean that we have one of the best minion build in a non-minion focus class

[autumn bough]

nuked? how long have you been playing LE. devs here literally buff bugged things

its a total meme fiesta when it comes to balancing

[vale kindle]

One of the banes of balancing such a system is adding too much at the same time and trying to balance whilst also adding more.
Can't speak much further, because it's probably somewhere in the dev's intent for the game that skills are thematic to a class and also don't create too many unanticipated combinations that go wild at the same time.

[autumn bough]

its really not hard to get some sort of balance but ehg doesnt even do that and cut QA program too xdd

[vale kindle]

The best balancing numbers are when the game is public and we're all playing it.

[autumn bough]

we are already bugtesters, ive been playing since 2018 and not one patch i didnt feel like one

[sly forge]

Bugtester without salary

[autumn bough]

every season i come in make builds and find 5-10 bugs

💀

main gripe of any long time player....bugs bugs and more bugs

[vale kindle]

Hate to break it to you, but no software dev can be 100% certain their code is bug free. And bugs are not only crash bugs, but also unforeseen and possibly unintended behaviour. A complex software will be harder and harder to guarantee for as it gets more complex.

We call those edge cases, but it can also be that humans can only think of so much at a singe time.

[crisp marlin]

surely this will be the patch where they fix all the bugs (copium)

[vale kindle]

Correct me if I'm wrong: We get patches that address previous issues, notably skills, mostly on a season-by-season basis. We don't get notable skill adjustments mid-seasons. If at all.

So I have to ask: when was wildfire embers made buggy?

[sly forge]

Btw @autumn bough is there any good build we will see with fire aura of decay?

Zombie has their physical version already

[autumn bough]

yes warlock zombies

and flame wraiths

on top of my head

[sly forge]

Yeah flame wraith is good

Might be A+ tier

[autumn bough]

maybe whiplock? i need to check that build after nerfs

[sly forge]

Too bad infernal shades can't

5 skills cannot be replaced

[autumn bough]

infernal shades ticks for 8 million dmg

i dont think it needs more

on uber

not on dummy

[vale kindle]

But muh infinite growth? [/s]

[sly forge]

Whiplock maybe A tier with that

Oh wait

Zombie only has half physical

So convert to pure fire is better

For warlock

Zombie necro sucks

Flame wraith might replace zombie skill on bar with aura of decay

Meaning that we will not actively cast zombie anymore

Aura of decay but converted to fire via ash wake boot

Upcoming item in season 4

Which is a huge boost for flame wraith

Now finally an A+ minion tier for necro other than abom

Too bad

Make flame wraith great again (wraith lord is still trash btw)

Now for lich

Any info that it will be nerfed?

So that I can switch to harvest flay or rip blood

[vale kindle]

As for all things, patch notes this Friday/Saturday, depending on time zone.

[obtuse quest]

Other than fire aura, I don't think there's a generic subskill that converts.

[red steppe]

Storm bolts converted to cold is the same thing

[vale kindle]

Thinking abut it, the subskill conversion situation presents an opportunity for builds that can afford to use other skills they never would've considered before.
Namely thinking on some skills, I think either chaos bolts of chtonic rift that I recall, may be others, that have a node that says more damage based on (specific) ailments present on target.
A worthwhile skill of a damage type that inflicts one ailment with a subskill of a different damage type that inflicts another ailment is a neat package that means one less skill on the skill bar.

[red steppe]

Stuff like damage based on ailment being on the enemy doesn't get passed down

In case you had that impression

[vale kindle]

But that's not the point. The main damage skill is the one that gets buffs based on ailments present. The other worthwile skill can be cast simply for ailment application here and there.

[red steppe]

Yep that's fine

Just wanted to clarify in case ^^

[vale kindle]

Fair enough.

[obtuse quest]

Those are for within skill trees that only exist for that skill, yes.

You have to remember that flame whip also exist outside of it, it's why I wrote fire aura as the current only example of a generic subskill converting.

[obtuse quest]

Isn't storm bolt clearly written that it works that way though, like fire aura?

[red steppe]

Not sure what you mean? How's the storm bolt conversion different from the fire aura one?

[vale kindle]

Flame whip is a triggered skill. Not a sub-skill of a skill.

[red steppe]

None of the skills we're talking about are actual sub-skills

Storm bolts aren't actually a subskill to gathering storm

They just behave like they are

Same for whips

Fire aura

Burning daggers, etc

[vale kindle]

Fair enough, confusion be my middle name. I was considering the term "sub-skill" as a skill that can only be triggered by another skill specifically, not generically like flame whip based on fire damage.

[red steppe]

Nah, something can be a subskill to multiple things

[vale kindle]

marrow shards has one that is specifically its own.

I think bone splinters?

[red steppe]

But these examples straight up aren't subskills. They're basically normal skills that share a skill tree with another skill

And can be triggered from different sources instead of directly cast

[red steppe]

Nothing is stopping EHG from making bone splinters trigger from something else as well. There's lots of examples of subskills with only one source, but there's no rule or systematic restriction that makes it so

[vale kindle]

Yeah, I took a quick look and you are entirely correct on that. The modularity is impressive.

My brain, it cannot even think in terms of such modularity

[red steppe]

Yeah, it results in a lot of quirks to the point where I'm still learning new things about it all the time

[gaunt jolt]

@obtuse quest randomly remembered this while watching the trailer for new season: are you gonna make an attempted return to offensive AoD with the new unique? xd

[obtuse quest]

Oh god

No

[gaunt jolt]

man...

[old hull]

lol

[autumn bough]

has anyone tested how this snapshots on gf ?

[lost gale]

I haven't tried it but using that thing is an exercise in frustration without snapshot

[old hull]

Haven't tested that one specifically, but GF snapshots all its stats when you start channeling, so it should just snapshot the 16% damned effect stat per damned on you when you start channeling.

[autumn bough]

ye i assume so do u think itll snapshot damned overload too

if so it might be silly

🤣

but damned overload kinda weird

i assume it doesnt snapshot or maybe it does cause it dynamically scaling with enemys hp

🤨

[old hull]

That one is a bit weirder. I would expect the overload buff itself to snapshot when you start channeling, but the more damage multis will not snapshot (basically, it would just treat it like you still have the overload even if it drops off).

If not that, it might snapshot the more multi for your missing health when you start channeling and snapshot the buff only for the enemy conditional part.

[autumn bough]

ye i would assume so will test

but this has to be a joke fully snapshotted thing is only 1.5 mil dps

💀

gonna jump real quick brb

[wintry flame]

[old hull]

Yeah, I tried snapshotting GF with 99% more damage from being at 1 hp with death seal back when DS gave damage, it still sucked lol

[autumn bough]

did u try pyre

i think without pyre its a meme

💀

2.7 mil with extreme canon dps

[old hull]

Probably not, but that was a long time ago now so idk. Never made it much past proof of concept

[vital verge]

Hmmmm so is Hungering Souls Skelly Mages going to actually be scalable, I feel like Curse of Perseverance is probably necessary for bossing but 63% less damage is pretty brutal

I think you'd want to run curse of perseverance, don't think converting elements is worth it for hungering Souls unless there's better unique support for another element, damage scaling via dread shade

Ehhh it's worth a try at least

[craggy flax]

probably late to the party, but we are actually getting RF. 🔥

[autumn bough]

thats normal behaviour

not snapshotting pen is weird tho

[vital verge]

Ehhhh, can you actually scale AoD damage and area high enough?

[craggy flax]

I don't care, it's RF in Last Epoch lol

[vital verge]

Fair

Automate your zombies and call it close enough

[old hull]

The witchfire relic is kinda RF too

[craggy flax]

I mean even in PoE RF isn't what is used to kill bosses, they toss traps. RF is just for clear
can probably do something like that here with Zombies or something and Decay for clear

[vital verge]

Ehhhh mixed minion/spell scaling, probably AoD + idk something warlocky

[old hull]

On a base 6 second base cooldown, unlikely you'll get good single target.
I looked at running this as a possess build, and preliminary look says it could be viable, but single target is going to be junk.

Clear would probably be weak with the shotgun staff

[vital verge]

3 seconds from tree, probably easy enough to get it to 1.5 seconds with decent gearing

[old hull]

As far as I know, the CDRS on tree is additive, so it'll be hard to get much lower than 2s

[autumn bough]

no im saying its not working how the game supposed to work

thats why its weird

[vital verge]

Do DKs cast necrotic mortar, might work for clear

[wintry flame]

yes

but that skill is terrible

[old hull]

They do, though it is a really bad skill

and it has like a base 2% crit chance or something for some reason instead of the normal 5% lol

[vital verge]

Gross hopefully they buff (they didn't)

[tender ridge]

it's technically a damage increase overall since they can all hit the same target. normally the souls are limited to 1 so you're doing ~1/3 of the damage per soul but hitting 5x as much

[old hull]

More than 5x souls per cast, ideally

[tender ridge]

right, just talking baseline

[vital verge]

Roughly what 9 on average

[old hull]

But yeah, reason I looked at possess is because it doesn't stack, so it can take full advantage of global multis like archmage and solo dread shade

[vital verge]

Hungering Souls tree also has kinda crap scaling since most of the flat more damage is per minion which DKs don't have

[old hull]

It scales off your minion count and your max mana when DKs cast it fyi

[vital verge]

Wait fr? Oh that might actually be viable then

[old hull]

Yeah, they showed us the node alt text that clarifies

[craggy flax]

the change to Frozen Eyes of Formosus is another ~40% minion CDR. should help get that down

[vital verge]

Wait that is a very weird scaling violation but I like it

Alright I know what I'm playing at least, might not work but it's at least worth a try

[old hull]

Good point, and changes to idols over the past while help (nest, corruption, altars)

[vital verge]

Hmmm target is like what 1-1.5 CD ideally

[craggy flax]

idk if it will be good, but can probably get that cooldown sub 2 seconds for sure

[wintry flame]

we also don't know if the hit procs will work on the mages

[old hull]

The "when hit" ones? I would be super (pleasantly) surprised if those apply

[wintry flame]

yeah

[vital verge]

I bet they might

[wintry flame]

that's the path that I thought about going. Even with single soul

[old hull]

I really really doubt they will, but if so then you run self hit on them like boneshatter

[wintry flame]

yup

[vital verge]

Well... As long as the double cast chance works

[wintry flame]

that's the DoT interval I think

the cast delay is 0.5 on spirits

[obtuse quest]

Yeah, one generally doesn't use HS for their damage lmao, they're generally buffers or ailment applicators

[wintry flame]

so 2 spirits per sec I think

[obtuse quest]

Oh this one

WHoops

Yes, my Witchfire setup uses both nodes it does fire about 4 per sec

[lost gale]

what do you mean? possess is always terrible damage

[vital verge]

Yeah and minion ailment is kinda, ehhh, last I heard

[obtuse quest]

Ignite isn't too bad potentially since chaos bolt exists

[lost gale]

the buff management of having to CB all your minions along with AoD positioning etc is truly dreadful tho

[vital verge]

? Unlimited scaling on ignites or something?

[obtuse quest]

There's also this if you're mana stacking anyway

[lost gale]

if it said

hitting your minions with Chaos Bolts grants them any damned, ignite, bleed or frostbite chance that Chaos Bolts gains from all sources. Buff lasts 10s etc.
That would at least be a sweet route into minion ailments for Acolyte

[obtuse quest]

It is what it is

Although I figured converted ones just carry over so frostbite and bleed is better for it

[lost gale]

it's a specialised skill for maybe +100% chance to [ailment you care about] for minions that comes with a horrendous playstyle

[wintry flame]

it's not all sources

[lost gale]

I know. I said IF it said

[obtuse quest]

I know, but the skill tree is the one converting it

[wintry flame]

I know Kzb said what you said is what it is

oh maybe I read that wrong

[lost gale]

either way minion ailments are rarely ever good in this game

[wintry flame]

but that's fine I can't read anyway

[lost gale]

literacy was a mistake, embrace it

[old hull]

When a player casts it, absolutely. But when a minion casts it, it gets a bunch of extra more damage multipliers you wouldn't otherwise be able to get.

So it should end up viable for clear, and idk what else you can combine with it since that's just ~3 skill slots

[lost gale]

wouldn't ignite get those multipliers and stack if you converted hungy souls to fire?

[wintry flame]

there isn't an exact answer to that

[vital verge]

Hopefully, yeah

[autumn bough]

as much as you can, highly depends i would say 150 is bare minimum for a decent build

[old hull]

Not exactly

[lost gale]

it really varies so much, spoon is often by far the best choice even though it dramatically reduces your ability to get flat

[autumn bough]

on acolyte minimum is closer to 250-300 with fissure/rip blood buffs

[lost gale]

and there's rip blood +flat buff to consider

[wintry flame]

yeah, but most spell builds don't use either

[autumn bough]

on aco?

they do

[obtuse quest]

Rip blood is way more common

[lost gale]

what's possess getting that ignite wouldn't? there's that node about if you've direct cast HS then you do %more global DOT to possessed enemies but I can't think of much extra juice that possess gets and idk if that would even work for minions

[wintry flame]

I mean most builds as in all builds not just Maxroll 😛

[obtuse quest]

Ngl been a while since I saw someone use fissure's self buff

[wintry flame]

you have to stand pretty still to get the buff from what I remember

if you move it's so bad

[old hull]

Archmage, solo dread shade, and flat damage. Also you wouldn't want the shotgun staff which is a big less damage multi.
Being stackable doesn't help too much when the skill cooldown is not much shorter than the effect duration.

[wintry flame]

oh in that regard, probably fine.

[vital verge]

Hmmm I was imagining an army build but archmage is probably better, clear wise anyways

[old hull]

For possess, archmage is by far better, but for stacking ailments you'd want to do an army, probably

[vital verge]

Yeah dread shade management on army is probably really annoying

[lost gale]

I totally forgot it got +flat

[vital verge]

Sadly you probably can't do a hit based version due to HS scaling being what it is

[old hull]

Although it does somewhat depend how archmage's double extra projectiles interacts with HS, I think they may have said it applies, but I don't remember for sure

[vital verge]

So it's either Ignite scaling army via soul fire+CoP or archmage

[lost gale]

though if it's skelly mages scaling +flat then you're gonna be mana stacking all the way

which I hate, doesn't synergise with any other minion thing at all

and chaos bolt buff management

[old hull]

Yeah, you'd definitely mana stack and use CB on a possess type build

Would probably want to on an ignite build, too, but not as good

[lost gale]

someday they'll replace profane oblation with sacrifice using your skill tree

[vital verge]

I mean you probably want to manage stack for army too, it's potentially really good scaling

[old hull]

Yeah, CB on ignite minions for +100% ignite chance

[vital verge]

Hmmm okay mage+HS+Dread Shade+Chaos Bolts+IDK Zombie maybe?

Nah not zombie, on second thought, golem probably

[lost gale]

infernal shade

or not i guess it's cooldown limited

rip blood has that blood spatter multiplier in it

idk if actually good

[vital verge]

Looks not great, although ward gen is always alright

[lost gale]

it's a lot of points to get rip blood to do anything for minions

[vital verge]

Yeah although you're already doing chaos bolts, could probably slot in cast on chaos bolts

[lost gale]

that needs a curse

which necro can often easily automate with the on-death trigger in the passive tree

but not so much for a solo archmage

[vital verge]

Oh right bah, back to the drawing boards

[wintry flame]

you'll have mark for death idol more than likely

and if you go DoT could run decrepify on bone curse

that's another 15% more dmg

[vital verge]

Screw it, minion army to buff HS via minion scaling nodes and call it a day

[wintry flame]

if you snapshot Lich's depending on your flat split could run cold convert AoD for more DoT as well

[wintry flame]

what doesn't work?

[vale kindle]

I admit, the wording is a little confusing. But I gather you can only have one stack of torment and thus only +3 spell damage and +15 endurance threshold?

[wintry flame]

no it stacks and is applied whenever you get or refresh torment duration

[vale kindle]

How long does it last? I assume every instance of the buff is separate.

[tender ridge]

...so it does work?

[wintry flame]

yeah it's the same duration as torment

[severe turret]

questions for those that are more knowledgable. for hungering souls. if i wanted to lean into necrotic and potential dots (using fire archers, potentially fire golem, and death knights) should i take the poison nodes?

and yeah i want to do the hs as necrotic because i cant do the whole fan shot with it if i want to transform it to fire through the skill tree

[wintry flame]

you could convert via Soulfire unique

[severe turret]

that changes all possess to ignite then right?

[wintry flame]

yes

[severe turret]

does that make inspired hunger useless?

it increases damage over time to possessed targets

[wintry flame]

it relies on Spreading Flames if converted

[severe turret]

so it would be dmg vs targets afflicted with spreading flames?

[wintry flame]

correct

[severe turret]

ok just didnt know if i'd need to respec some nodes. haven't done the new story chapter so running a new acolyte through things but like to run necro the most. always wanted to make a really cool fire minion army. dunno if i can make the death knights be fire based tho

looks like i can lol

i want to make it so they also cast hungering souls when the new stuff drops next week

[wintry flame]

if you convert the hungering souls then that cast will be fire. It's normal attacks/skills will be necrotic

[severe turret]

you missed the flaming attacks node. it add fisre dmg to their attacks so i'd assume it will be fire/necrotic

[wintry flame]

yeah you can add fire, I just meant the tags will make adaptive damage be necrotic and they will mostly be doing necrotic damage

[severe turret]

yeah hope that changes with the reworks. would love to just have this massive fire army pummeling things

[heady mortar]

I would recommend against using golem, it's a pretty terrible minion to splash into an army and the skill slot is pretty much always better spent on something else if it's not a golem-dedicated build. Archers also might not be great for DoT, the S4 node that converts their damage also reduces their attack speed. And they already don't attack that fast in general. If you're going pure DoT, I'd suggest Rogues instead

[severe turret]

i want to go fire tho. and i'm more using them rn cuz i remember them being really good for campaign clearing

like i want as many minions being fire based as i can

[old hull]

Unless you snapshot a big cold dread shade on it, then it could be mostly cold damage lol

[heady mortar]

If you're doing DoTs the attack base damage type doesn't really matter. That's only a concern if you're trying to get damage from the hit itself. But on Necromancer you generally want to pick one or the other

If you want to go more fire hit damage, then I'd go Pyromancers

[severe turret]

again i want to go fire with some dot stuff. plus i want to use hungering souls from further away to stay safe and have the minions between me and the enemies. i like the concept of the death nights, and for the moment i'm using the golem to be inbetween me and the enemies as a sort of tank

so i'm trying to have more closer range units in the long run to become a sort of blockade between the enemy and my character

[old hull]

Minions will often get a good amount of incidental damage scaling for their hits, depending on the build ofc.

[severe turret]

also with the snapshot idea, i've never understood that method too much and tend to avoid it if possible

[heady mortar]

This is a separate concern, but it's also generally not a good idea to mix melee and ranged minions, since most of Necromancer's damage output comes from buffs that have limited range and rarely will affect all of them together if they have wildly different attack ranges

You don't really need to worry about snapshotting, it's honestly not very important

[severe turret]

again. the point of the archers currently is campaign clearing. not something i'm thinking of using all the way to the endgame scenarios. i also know that they are changing the fire arrow node

i would rather use warriors, but i dont know of a way off the top of my head to make them do fire dmg

[heady mortar]

Yeah, you can't. Fire options are Pyromancers, Flame Wraiths, Pyre Golem, Fire Archers and Fire conversion HG Death Knights

oh, and Zombies

[severe turret]

and my opinion of necromancer classes is they're supposed to be walking around with a horde not a single unit type crap

[heady mortar]

I always forget them since they feel more like a spell than a minion

[severe turret]

yeah and they can cost so much mana and i'm already wanting hs as my basic

[heady mortar]

I mean, you're preaching to the choir here lol. I exclusively play minion army builds

[severe turret]

yeah hordes is my preferred necro builds for mage i like doing the whole hydra build thing

[heady mortar]

I'm just trying to say what the options that work best are. It is still last epoch in the end, you can try different stuff and see if something else works

[severe turret]

this is true and i do like to play games with builds i want to use and they aren't always the meta slop. more often then not, they're ones i make or find and then alter

[heady mortar]

Yeah same. I don't get relying on guides tbh, making builds and finding how to make stuff work is the fun of it for me. I was just taking a second look at S3 builds in preparation for S4 and ended up finding a bunch of new optimizations I didn't know could be done. If you put the work in, a lot of things are viable

[wintry flame]

you could just do them as ignite tbh.

[severe turret]

there's also how they've said they are reworking summon skeleton and other necro nodes so there's a lot we dont know yet

[severe turret]

how would i make warriors do ignite tho?

[heady mortar]

Aura of Decay adds ignite% on hit, there's a passive Necro node that adds %ignite, Dragonflame Edict adds 200%, the new boots add at least ~50ish from what we've seen

that applies to any minion, so at that point it's just a matter of More DMG multipliers and attack speed

[wintry flame]

new boots with AoD, Dragonflame Edict staff, and the new chest

[heady mortar]

chest is primalist only unfortunately 😭

[wintry flame]

most minion modifiers are pretty generic so damage types are usually mixed and matched anyway

[severe turret]

meaning that means the gear would be good regardless of what minion i'm trying to use

[wintry flame]

also have chaos bolts

[wintry flame]

oof nvm

[severe turret]

am i miss remembering or can you make the wraithlord fire based?

[wintry flame]

correct, usually getting in the weeds about damage types is somewhat useless, but it really depends. you def want a majority split of one damage type in the instances you use something like AoD or the necro passive for penetration

you cannot make Wraithlord have a base fire type

[heady mortar]

I don't think you can make Wraithlord be fire, but you can have him always summon Flame Wraiths

[severe turret]

so youre saying i cant make the wraithlord summon as a flame or putrid one like i can normal wraiths?

[heady mortar]

also Ghostflame + Wraiths + Ignite will be very strong next season

[wintry flame]

correct

wraithlord isn't a wraith it's it's own thing haha

it just scales with the wraith tree, it's weird I know

[severe turret]

since it forces you to summon it instead of a wraith, it should take all of the stuff wraiths can do imo

[wintry flame]

yeah but it's different, has it's own abilities and just wasn't made that way

[severe turret]

i wonder why

[heady mortar]

Could just be they never thought of it. IIRc the original unique itself was a design created by someone else that EHG added to the game, so they probably weren't thinking of interactions with the type conversions. Also it would be a bit more work making extra models and animations for them

[severe turret]

i'd just assume the model design change would be similar to the wraith one. and with them doing a necro update, it could make sense to update that unique as well

[wintry flame]

it's not really a necro update

just the remainder of things missed last season

[heady mortar]

you could put in a suggestion in the suggestions channel, they might look at it if they have the time

[severe turret]

you misunderstand my meaning. i'm saying the update has changes to the necro, not that the update as a whole is based on the necro or anything like that

[wintry flame]

yeah, I get what you mean I just don't think there will be vast changes, but idk we shall see tomorrow if they add much else

[vital verge]

Shame that wildfire embers doesn't work with minion ignites

[severe turret]

with necro mininon builds, i prefer it to be a horde and your character is melee or ranged and the minions are the other. so with hungering souls being ranged, i'm wanting to lean into melee minions

[vital verge]

Ignite mages are gonna have clear issues with curse of perseverance

[severe turret]

and i would prefer to lean into fire too if possible

[vital verge]

Death knights with dragonflame edict staff is probably the play

Grab Skelly warriors since they'll ignite on hit with the staff

[severe turret]

but i'm also one that doesnt like to have most of my bar being buff skills. i want most of them to be minion summons

[vital verge]

Aura of decay with new fire conversion boots and then either flame wraiths or zombies

[severe turret]

i currently even have transplant setup to create bone minions too

[vital verge]

Honestly hot swapping curse of perseverance for bossing might be the play

Unless of course it turns out you can snapshot hungering Souls effects, which if so.... Lol lmao even

[muted mist]

transplant is good but bone minions are pretty terrible, -40% less damage mod on the minion itself and I don't think their health scales with level or with INT. obviously if you enjoy having them as part of your horde then keep on trucking, we're here to have fun, but i thought you might appreciate the warning that they are likely to have survivability issues long before your other minions.

i do wish that Death Knight node stacked with pyro/cryomancer nodes rather than replacing. Running a deathchill golem alongside frost mages would still probably be bad, but it would be less bad.

[severe turret]

Its more just seeing another minion. I usually dont like to play transplant due to the hp loss but for early game not bad. Unfortunately the only similar movement skill set specific to necro is teleporting mages. But not what I want because its an oh crap gotta gtfo because im in danger, not looking to drag my minions with me

And my argument for those two is the teleport style effect for a quick get out and turn to keep fighting

Instead of a sustained movement effect before I could turn around and get back to battle

[muted mist]

I often run transplant with the node where it heals you for the cost; with a bit of healing effectiveness it's a nice source of sustain, and very accessible. I usually drop it once I have other sustain sources online, though.

[muted mist]

If Bone Curse is converted into an aura, and you use chaos bolts to trigger bone curse, does it trigger the regular, non-aura version?

[crisp ridge]

did anyone ever cook up/minmax a witchfire build?

[hollow flint]

probably only a few hundred people

[autumn bough]

0 dps

[lost gale]

Can't kill anything challenging with Witchfire and the QoL of the build is pretty bad for a pseudo walking sim

the build desperately needs a way to apply witchfire through a skill hit so it can inherit skill modifiers too or it will never have meaningful single target damage

[tender ridge]

flay lich is pretty reliant on the unique axe

once you get it you could swap

personally, i'm stubborn and always play my end build through the leveling process and just suffer until I get the enablers

I wanna play a DoT drain life at some point but spell dot still sucks

as in not poison coal

drain life has a lot of problems

the multis aren't horrendous

but the biggest problem is being DoT. you can't scale it with crit and have no meaningful multipliers other than the tree

wandering spirits and black hole might be the only good spell dots now, and wandering spirits is pushing the definition of good there. Torment I think might still be playable but I can't remember

[old hull]

Melee DOTs are playable

[obtuse quest]

As usual, decent clear, dogshit bossing

[tender ridge]

ghostflame is pretty mediocre other than just for clear

I completely forgot about infernal shade as an actual dot. THAT is a good spell

but it also has completely bonkers multipliers

[lost gale]

what would you do with 4lp exsang on acolyte?

I'm thinking whiplock maybe?

[tender ridge]

in terms of raw power yeah, but lowlife is still solid on lock/necro

4LP exsang would enable basically any lowlife build imo

[lost gale]

Lock gets a lot of damage reduction on the bottom side of the passive tree, not many ways to scale max hp and recovery though so I like LL on lock

[tender ridge]

ironically you want max HP still for LL kek

[lost gale]

yes, I know, but LL generally has better max EHP and DR helps the recovery keep up

[tender ridge]

yeah for sure

like I said, LL still works fine on warlock

[lost gale]

yeah it's terribad

[noble flame]

I had fun with Wheel of Torment back in 1.0. It wasn't anything amazing though.

[lost gale]

lots of QoL

pretty weak

imo

[tender ridge]

soul feast is a skill I'd love to have be viable as a main damage dealer

CD bone curse -> soul feast feels like such a no brainer but it's garbage

[severe turret]

does the wraithlord decay like wraiths? and if he does, would taking the twin spirits node stop that?

[autumn bough]

what? soul feast never will come even close. infernal shade ticks for 8+ mil on uber aby

the scaling on those 2 skills are in different dimensions not 166% more 🤣

166% doesnt make skill that ticks for 100k on dummy do 80 mil ticks

https://youtu.be/-x90sd09reU?si=Z2f2LZQtM5s_8XfY&t=74

this is an example of infernal shade dps

4.2?

its 1:40 on budget

ye cause its not a dps skill

lol

they gutted it

and made into a weird whatever it is now

[autumn bough]

but even 4.2 min uber hard to believe the skill has no multipiers like at all on the tree

[muted mist]

Agree wheel of torment has great QoL and weak DPS. Needs a way to juice the single target DPS IMO. The mana return on rares means the cost isn't an issue, but since torment doesn't stack, the build overall just doesn't have any oomph vs single targets. Fantastic clear speed at sufficiently low corruption though.

[tender ridge]

def agree. no shot it's happening with soul feast as the primary damage dealer

[night hemlock]

It's much sooner than that now

Damn that message was days ago

Ignore me, not sure why my thing was so far back XD

[severe turret]

with the changes for minions causing them to pull from the hungering souls tree, will items like soulfire affect the cast for minions now too?

[old hull]

Yes. The mana and minion scaling nodes also scale off your mana and minions

[tired tendon]

Can hundering souls be fire damage?

Hungering

Okay quick search a unique relic called soulfire

Cool

Think I'll try a fire minion build for sure maybe mess up but try anyway I always start minion build

Haha just seen the post above

[severe turret]

yeah it's why i'm asking. because giving death knights (mages) hungering souls doesnt currently scale off the hs tree and i wanna know if soulfire will affect them after the update because it currently doesnt

[tired tendon]

It should

[severe turret]

so the soulfire unique will make the death knights hs cast be fire too after the update?

[tired tendon]

I think so

[severe turret]

i believe the tag says cast haunt currently which might be why it doesnt scale off the tree and they are fixing that i think

[tired tendon]

Never played it, but does the skill tree have a fire node

Might need to pick the node in the tree but the item should work imho

Unique Item Compatibility: Most importantly, developers confirmed that unique items that affect your Hungering Souls—such as the Soulfire relic—now apply to the souls cast by your minions.

[old hull]

Yes, and same goes for the staff that lets all souls hit the same target, it will work for death knights too

[old hull]

It does, but without the item you must take the node that locks you to 1 projectile per cast in order to take the fire conversion in the skill tree

[tired tendon]

Seems like an awesome build plan I have some ideas hope it works out

[tired tendon]

What is this staff?

[noble flame]

Curse of Perseverance

[tired tendon]

Hmm so if I go more minion focused I would want dragonflame

[noble flame]

I'm curious about how it'll interact with Vengeful Souls + Bone Curse (and Pearls of the Swine: Penance edition). We were doing some feedback loops with it before it got fixed.

[tired tendon]

Stacking ignite seems like it should be really good, I've never tried it

Have aura of decay fire, fire golem, death knights using HS, and archers sounds fun

[muted mist]

think we could apply enough hits with death knights via Curse of Perseverance to go with a bone curse-triggered-by-minions build?

really the question is if investing in the minions enough for them to survive is worth the dps they add relative to just triggering it yourself

[old hull]

No

You will just always be better off scaling the minions

[tired tendon]

Wondering if infernal shade be worth to cast on the death knights, fire golem, lot to learn as I've never tried any of it before. Drop archers? For infernal or dread.

[crisp ridge]

but a link to it? im fine with that, it was funnt

[obtuse quest]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/witchfire-warlock

[stuck owl]

Witchfire Warlock Build Guide

Game Cycle / Version

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3

Class

Acolyte / Warlock

Used skills

• Chthonic Fissure
• Bone Curse
• Spirit Plague
• Chaos Bolts
• Profane Veil

Used unique items

• Downfall of the Righteous
• Ashes of Mortality
• Boneclamor Barbute
• Pearls of the Swine

Tags

Monolith Farmer / Arena / Season Starter / Beginner / DoT

Created by Tevonsonte · Apr 29, 2025, 12:26 AM

[crisp ridge]

🐐

[tender ridge]

you know I never really thought about it, but even with the crazy high base damage that witchfire has it's only 30x ignite's base damage

and you can easily stack up 30 ignites without blinking

and it only has 3 multipliers to work with

T8 sinthara's affix is a pretty big multiplier

oh hey that guide mentions T8 sinthara

Sinathia

[muted mist]

Lots of variants but probably golems, HS, death knight, dread shade, aura of decay is the play, if you're willing to stand close enough to your melee minions.

[tired tendon]

Yeah I have lots to learn, hopefully figure it out next Thursday! Going in fresh. Ty

[obtuse quest]

It's as easy to apply as an RF so it's pretty good for clear, and it's core multipliers are all more%s, which is why it even works in the first place

[tender ridge]

yeah

[crisp ridge]

also witchfire just happens around yiu with relic, so you can proc it then just zoom

[tender ridge]

you do have to continue proccing it. gotta keep your overloads rolling

which generally only takes like two casts of chaos bolts

[crisp ridge]

yea thats how i was doing it on release of righteous. just 2x chaos bolts and keep running

add other things for single target dmg

[tender ridge]

same

i haven't played bleed warlock in a while. maybe I'll do that this season

[stoic flame]

I think I wanna try some sort of fire/ignite minions since theres so much support for it being added

I always liked the dragonflame edict staff but it was never great

[old hull]

It felt significantly more annoying to me tbh

[obtuse quest]

For my setup it was just slap fissure double cast CB and you’re good to go

[lost gale]

It gets bad if you somehow get ignite and damned overload staggered from eachother

Because they can't be refreshed

[old hull]

Yeah, that was the clunkiest part for me

[rugged charm]

Why was Str stacking Abomination a thing again? Just for being able to scale defense or did it scale into damage aswell? I can't remember

[autumn bough]

primordial relic

[wintry flame]

You can scale Str, Int and Endurance all fairly easily and get the most benefit from Tyrant’s and such

[sly forge]

hmm

I will know if abomination will be nerfed tomorrow

[rugged charm]

Ah true. Thank you! Was going insande because I couldn't remember/find the synergy haha

[sly forge]

cant wait for that

flame wraith will be great

not sure about skeleton

hopefully abomination will be the same

[autumn bough]

like it was nerfed for past 5 years?

literally every patch devs say we will nerf it

[sly forge]

i don't quite get it since I just played the game last october

cant tell about earlier

[autumn bough]

they say it every time, nerf it by 10% new gear buffs it by 20% and it becoming only more op

been op for past 5 years without a single patch missing

KEKW

[sly forge]

the primodial relic contributes a lot to it strength here

and physical minions in general

still i love it

[autumn bough]

tldr dont listen to devs

they are cooked and barely balance ANYTHING in the game

sometimes they do like to kill builds by making it unplayable mana cost and forcing generation/spender but dont see how it can happen with abom

[sly forge]

well I agree with this

[vale kindle]

Abom is an involved process to summon and thus it really hurts to have it die or unsummon. With all the moving parts, they have to keep that in mind too.

[autumn bough]

wdym? it has around 2 mil hp

[vale kindle]

And then in general, they balance based on what has happened in the season, but also add more stuff to the game that is not necessarily balanced with the old content. As a general rule we only get patches on season change.

[autumn bough]

how does it die 🤔

or you meant that they might nerf hp

[sly forge]

no nerf hp, just reduce its damage a bit

but make it still uberroth viable

[autumn bough]

thats my prediction theyll probably nerf dmg by ~20-30% then add couple broken uniques and we will do even more dps

[sly forge]

abomination will be a pain if they can die

[vale kindle]

Minions in general suffer from being too squishy. But abom is special due to what one has to go through to summon it. Your abom dies in combat? Chances are the echo is failed.

[autumn bough]

from corruptions and idols alone abom will get 15%+ more dps

[sly forge]

corruption are too risky

[vale kindle]

You say too risky, but... it will be done :p

[sly forge]

how?

[autumn bough]

too risky?

they are free

[vale kindle]

corruption can brick an item into complete uselesness or can make it even better.

[autumn bough]

you get tons of 1-2lp items that are easy to obtain slam and corrupt

[vale kindle]

If you use that fact mindfully, you should never brick your build outright.

[autumn bough]

like 1lp red rings, pale ox, amulets, trex relics

will be free corruptions

[sly forge]

okay

[autumn bough]

risky is trying to slam high LP items

ye sure

but do u need them?

not really

[sly forge]

assuming best result then abomination might be even stronger

[autumn bough]

1lp+good corruption will almost surely be better than 2lp

[sly forge]

anyway do we have a list of corruptions yet

I saw some that add flat melee damage to minions

which will be insane

especially for abominations

since how strong it is already while only having flat melee affixes from an one hand weapon

[sly forge]

yeah make sense

[vale kindle]

Surely, if the pool of affixes hits something useful to you.

[wintry flame]

Abom could get a CD increase for all skills and the scaling bonuses could be cut in half

it would still be giga strong

[muted mist]

The thing that I think is absolutely wild is that they'll have some intended balance, then the player base will blow that out of the water using unintended mechanics to become wildly OP (Abom snapshotting) and EHG will just take that new unintended level of power and make it the new baseline. And then not touch anything else to bring it in line.

"You break the game, you get to keep it." What???

Do they have anyone running any kind of balance numbers, or pulling any kind of performance metrics out of online play

[wintry flame]

I mean the core of abom is designed around snapshotting and even the most ethical version of Abom is extremely strong

[muted mist]

Presumably they do and just don't talk about them but I wonder sometimes

[wintry flame]

all the nodes specifically want you to put minion skills on your bar consume them and then never touch them again

[muted mist]

Right, they refactored to be less snapshot oriented as best they could, but they kept all the power of the previous bullshit and then some

[wintry flame]

like what bullshit?

Abom with just the base tree is sub 1:20m uber

[muted mist]

Previously it was worth speccing into wraiths and Skelly mages and golems, summoning them, and speccing back out after Abom was created

The full version was like forty steps if you did everything

It's still bad but less so

But they didn't intend any of that, it was more powerful than anything else, and they just made that the new balance target so players didn't whine about getting nerfed

They fixed some of the gameplay issues and ignored the balance problem

Just bizarre to me

[wintry flame]

It's more powerful now than it was, other than infinite damage methods

yeah that's a problem

[obtuse quest]

SOme snapshotting is impossible to fix without also murdering the powerlevel of all other builds like buff snapshotting

[wintry flame]

it's a problem they have to approach case by case

[night hemlock]

Some snapshotting is intended

[hidden sable]

does anyone know if there's some documented loot information somewhere for things like what does uncommon, rare, very rare mean, and what you expect to drop at 100c 300c+ etc

[wintry flame]

you can see reroll chances on Tunklabs

https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/affixes

There's a base reroll chance on affixes and then it scales with tiers of said affix. These are calced to then decide whether or not to reroll that affix into another.

[hidden sable]

it will always reroll t7 at a certian corruption and then drop to 91%?

what kinda of corruption

oh no thats just the % increase the mod is giving here

[wintry flame]

yeah all the base reroll in the reroll column, it's also on LETools if you hover the Very Rare on the affix you linked.

[hidden sable]

thanks

going to go adjust my filter now and setup tinks for some things

[wintry flame]

yupp

[tall mural]

the time has come

[wintry flame]

We get bee set boys

[muted mist]

i mean they have clearly shown they know how to buff a skill to compensate for the removal of snapshot mechanics, it's nontrivial in some cases but bigger numbers can solve a lot of problems. And I don't mind some amount of snapshotting, having temporary snapshotting can make for some interesting game mechanics and allow for skilled play, but going through a bunch of setup and especially skillbar swapping to permanently snapshot things is just not very fun in my opinion.

[ashen bluff]

huge diff between skills snapshotting stats what exists in every arpg and those stats staying once you remove their source <_<
it's the later thats the issue in LE

[muted mist]

Heck, I don't even have a problem with snapshotting-based builds being the strongest builds for a mastery. The problem I have is when it's so ubiquitous and so strong that I feel like I can't get away from it (Lich's Scorn Dread Shade being my current pet peeve)

If I had dictatorial authority over the game, I'd be going in with a big hatchet after every single mechanic that allows you to benefit from a skill after you swap it off your bar. With open communication of "don't get attached to any build that uses it, the nerfbat is incoming".

[wintry flame]

and then you'd completely kill the class lmao and alienate most builds except Abom

The difference in power is pretty exceptional for builds that lose access to that. Even if you removed its snapshot ability it'd be used, but most builds are going to lose something and the one build that doesn't care, wouldn't lose anything

[muted mist]

name a skillswap mechanic and i'll tell you how i'd adjust the class to compensate. Dread Shade? add a unique that autocasts it, it doesn't need to be on your bar if you never cast it in combat. Lich's Scorn? just make it a flat 120 cold damage, ditch the infernal shade scaling mechanic. etc etc.