💀┃acolyte

[slim niche]

it drops your movement untill you dash, and it stacks that buff/debuff per melee attack, so you get 3 stacks per second so it ramps back up quite fast.. no need to keep dilation up 100% of the time, you will ramp it up with every pack of enemies

[lost gale]

the pen affix is somewhat devalued by aura of decay for phys or cold harvest

and you'll be missing the tons of +levels that harvest builds get from traitors

but yeah I can imagine it works well

[north lance]

I am dreaming

[gritty cargo]

no flat base, bricked

[north lance]

T1 bro 😔

Damn it, add flat necrotic damage -17fp 🥹

clone or something?

[north lance]

2 all 😔

[charred ridge]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[north lance]

Flay Lich mana stack is quite powerful and versatile, but using her to farm for a long time is not a great experience

[cosmic blade]

ive been trying to farm a 2lp one of these for a week. this makes me sad

[little wigeon]

Traitor tongue lp4 only 1 in 5k, you got this lol 😆

[north lance]

I spent 8 months searching for Mortality's Grasp 4lp and Stormhide Paws after another month, but I got Julra's Obsession 3lp very early on and several other 4lp gloves, so Tongue 4lp has also been quite difficult for me

[rich stag]

I say go for it

Don’t let your dreams be dreams

JUST DO IT

[wide crystal]

Made a Mana Flay Lich just to kill Ubby… still can’t beat him T_T

[gritty cargo]

just use ghostflame on ubby

[cosmic blade]

same

[north lance]

She is extremely powerful when fully equipped, you can start by farming idols and relics for her

%Regen mana=1/2armor, i have 5k at normal, 7k at reaper form and 15k with buff

So tanky

I only have issues when farming for a long time with her, maintaining reaper form and finding rare mobs to restore mana takes a lot of my focus

[little wigeon]

It really becomes easy to do uber at 2k base mana before buffs and using 2 julra rings

[hybrid onyx]

Anyone have a mana flay planner?

[mint sluice]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/flay-mana-lich-guide

[wide crystal]

Oh, i take full minor idol mana x)

[hybrid onyx]

Thanks

[gleaming trail]

For wandering spirits, is the damned applied by them scale with your stats or minion stats?

[obtuse quest]

Yours. Wandering spirits are not minions. They're your spell. They do not have the minion tag.

[gleaming trail]

I dont know why i thought they did, thanks for helping

[arctic moat]

probably because they look like creatures and not projectiles. tons of games out there with even less creature-like minions

there was also some subskill on... Primalist, i think? that says smth like "summons a spirit". ok, so it's gotta be a minion, right? nope! the planner says it's a spell.

[obtuse quest]

No health bar= not a minion.

Only exception is the falcon.

[twin plover]

anyone have a nice S tier or maybe A tier necromancer minion build ? i dont like abomination build because of skill swapping, its tedious....maybe some nice skeleton/mage/bone golem/wraith build that is not on Maxroll ?

[lost gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKLfZQVkWQ4 this looks like it easily does 1kc, wouldn't count on it doing uber though

[umbral oracle]

I only play self-made C tier (at best) builds.
But I've been surprised by how much I enjoy playing a basic poison Lich, and I got a lot of room left for upgrades. (Not to mention a fix for Corrupted Form, would be an easy 25% more damage from my low-life poison chance idols).

[charred ridge]

well

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DtBHrLQzlimGUn6an-pOCVKqZFHzMvIdJ-krF_F0NsM/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AVM4yvvo

[stuck owl]

Void Knight, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.5

Class:

Sentinel (20) / Void Knight (78) / Paladin (15)

General:

▸ Health: 2,683, Regen: 28/s
▸ Mana: 1,448.32, Regen: 11.2/s
▸ Ward Retention: 16%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 60 Str / 8 Dex / 8 Int / 16 Att / 46 Vit
▸ Resistances: 85% / 57% / 57% / 4% / 69% / 67% / 67%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 32%, Threshold: 865
▸ Dodge Chance: 1% (32)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 73% (7,558)

Used skills:

Erasing Strike / Symbols of Hope / Healing Hands / Anomaly / Devouring Orb

[charred ridge]

ended up going over ES again anyway

basically 1/3rd of current flay dps

not bad should kill in 40s

[vapid kindle]

i wonder if you could save any time by starting with army of skin and then hotswapping to suloron’s mid fight

[charred ridge]

almost definitely yeah

but it should be pretty minor

like when you start actually having dps on your build the fight is just like 90% phasing

and 10% actually fighting

you can save a few seconds off that 10% for sure

[vapid kindle]

this was the exact reason i never really bothered trying to push uber kill times

idk maybe i’ll try and oneshot him with bear at the end of the season we’ll see

[charred ridge]

idk much about minions so like how much control you have over your pet and shit

but looks like bear can stun

stunlocking skips last phase so

stunning saves quite a bit of time really

[vapid kindle]

my bear was stunning uber regularly on day 2 with shit gear and the mob bug so ye you can stun him easily

[vapid kindle]

is acid skin bugged?

[charred ridge]

idk maybe?

what would be bugged about it?

[vapid kindle]

it seems like it's not applying like half of the time

which is super fun for uber on a crit build

[charred ridge]

and you're applying it from? i assume fissure?

[vapid kindle]

yes

[charred ridge]

and im assuming you're aiming the fissure correctly as well?

[vapid kindle]

yes

like i'm 100% hitting with the initial hit and at least half the time it doesn't apply

[charred ridge]

i mean just clip it and report it as a bug i guess i dont see a reason this should happen on uber

mobs could dodge with some echo modifier but not uber

[vapid kindle]

and his hitbox is so massive that it's like obviously i'm clearly hitting him

chances are it doesn't get fixed until season 4 though lmao

[charred ridge]

ya ofc not

probably not til season 5

then somehow they bring it back for season 6

[vapid kindle]

with no direct changes to fissure of course

or acid skin

[scarlet flicker]

@noobzor is the maxroll mana flay ok post shattered world?

[charred ridge]

nice ping

well

i think the maxroll version requires more budget for mostly worse results

i would not recommend it myself

[scarlet flicker]

I got uber down and want to use the shattered world...it's only 2% crit:(

[charred ridge]

i mean

it'll be worse but you can use it if you want

nothing is stopping you

[scarlet flicker]

sorry

[charred ridge]

lol why are you apologizing

you didn't actually ping me

i was just teasing you because you meant to ping me but it failed

[north lance]

2 times, hope luck 🙏

Hmmm, no shred armor now 🥺

[north lance]

I'm debating between shred armor on the amulet or on the gloves

[vapid kindle]

probably gloves is better as you can get crit multi on amulet would be my guess?

[north lance]

But finding a Nihilis with a great roll and successfully slamming it is another big issue

[north lance]

I had to pour almost all my meager points into making rare mobs and champions appear more often when playing Lich... without them, it sometimes feels like a high-speed racer running out of gas

[inland ledge]

Dungeon mobs help a lot. Along with the mages. Generally having more champs and rares is good so it’s good to have a build lever for it as well.

[wide crystal]

Woooow GG ! 😮

[north lance]

11fp hard to craft % health :((

[pearl snow]

Just win your rng rolls

[north lance]

5 times with best roll 😭

[hybrid onyx]

Only 5? I think i am at 15 atleast now.

[north lance]

Best roll, only 5 cuz just playing 4 days

[north lance]

I'm looking for ways to reduce or avoid critical damage, or as a last resort use blind

[scarlet flicker]

is corrupted form still broken?

[tulip turret]

What of these pieces of armor are an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY besides Stygian coal?

[radiant iris]

it should say in the maxroll guide: if you click starter you can see what they consider starter

[inland ledge]

Neck, helm, weapon and relic are trivial to farm once you enter monos.
The rest can take more than a few hours, but should come together nicely if you know what you’re doing.

[crude python]

Anyone here played Flame Whip Warlock this season? I'm playing it and was wondering what others have done for it with the primordial/class updates

[mental rivet]

I did it on hardcore to 100, did the astral blood chest piece for defense

[pallid summit]

does the chance to chill on bone curse cause your minions to become chilled if you take the nodes to put it on your minions?

pretty sure it would but i figured id ask

[old hull]

Yes

[pallid summit]

the rest of the bone curse tree is ass if you are buffing minions with it lol

[obtuse quest]

Can't trigger the 'debuffs' if they never get it-

[pallid summit]

not sure I follow, are you just saying dont use bone curse?

[obtuse quest]

Iirc the chill only applies if bone curse's damage procs.

[pallid summit]

oh you meant to say if they never get hit

i guess thats fair lol

[obtuse quest]

OH I missed a H

That explains it

[pallid summit]

yeah i was confused lol

[steady spade]

what is the point of using Woven Flesh in Mana Flay Licker build, guys

[obtuse quest]

Easieast way to cap crit strike avoid

[steady spade]

yeah but you will lose about 1k5 hp compare to other armors such as Pale Ox, Mountain Core

hmm

[cosmic blade]

I use pale ox and got a t6-t7 added amour and crit strike avoid affix on belt/shoe

[north lance]

Do Marrow Shards, indirectly summoned by another skill, consume our health?

[pearl snow]

Its also super easy to get early game so its useful before having LP on other options

[north lance]

thinking about prefixes for it

[north lance]

Midnight so death now

[old hull]

Yes generally, can't think of a case where it doesn't

[lost gale]

volatile zombie death says it doesn't but it's terrible so i've never actually tried it

if the 3x marrow shards on transplant cast consumes health for all of them that's a huge amount of health spent in one go, idk if they do or not.

[old hull]

Ah yeah, that is true

[old hull]

You can only get 1 afaik

From the affix itself anyway, rip blood's proc I heard mught be bugged to work, but that is explicit that it costs health

[lost gale]

seriously? that affix/idol is even worse than I thought

wow they only made the T8 mod for it 100% instead of like 500% casting it 5x when you transplant

[old hull]

Yeah, since it's capped at 100% not much point in making it higher. Would be neat, even if still nowhere close to worth your primordial lol

[steady spade]

is Harvest Flay Lich better than Mana Flay Lich

[inland ledge]

No

[scarlet flicker]

is corrupted form still broken?

[blazing sequoia]

is there a german speaking ... need support

[north lance]

Passive Corrupted Form of the Lich states "You always count as being at low life," but when I add the Dance with Death node with tripled effects at low life, it only takes effect when my health drops to 35%. Is this a known bug, or am I misunderstanding something?

[pallid summit]

known bug

[north lance]

It's been almost two months and it still exists? No wonder people are leaving so quickly

[slim niche]

well, yeah, acolyte has always had a lot of bugs, IDK if the bugged bleed interactions with spiritplague were ever fixed, where laceration inflected bleeds are not getting any buffs from any source whatsoever, but this alone was broken forever, might still be 😄 https://youtu.be/C1lSJfL7H34?t=262

sometimes the bugs are bad for you, sometimes you oneshot bosses, so it balances itself out xD

I've been playing with a controller for a while now, and found out there is a lot of bugs with movements-skills vs keyboard.. like, forexample, when you turn profane veil into a movement ability with node on the lower-left side of the tree, you are supposed to be locked into a 'dash' like straight bee-line. Does not work on controller, you can move freely just like without the node

or if you take the movement node on the upper left side, that boosts your speed with ignites and should make your veil last shorter.. well, you get the speed and no reduction to time in veil 😄

[charred ridge]

that bug is like average offender

not even on the same level as fangs of the berserker, stygian coal or wildfire embers 😂

but ye welcome to last epoch where everything is bugged and every bug takes 6 to 18 months to fix

[north lance]

[lost gale]

the nodes in reaper form don't work either and there's something else too that I forget. I think maybe the bleed immunity on exsang works but don't count on it.

[little wigeon]

Lp3 imprint incoming 👀

[north lance]

If I didn’t have to farm at 2k2, I would’ve removed reaper form. Maintaining it is really annoying for me. In human form, I have 40 health regen, which makes all the passives converting health to ward pretty much useless

[north lance]

So hard, rare drop 7k... Only hope more 2lp

[charred ridge]

i mean u dont have to maintain reaper form

idk how frequently it drops for you, i can maintain it for 2-3 echoes i'd say on average but like

even if it drops every echo it doesnt really matter

[inland ledge]

@charred ridge did you play both the relic and T8 variant for lich? Got any benchmarks for uber kills?

[charred ridge]

i have not played t8 dagger but i dont really see how it can be good early on

you need absolute giga gear for it to do more damage (and even then it's only 6% more), defensively it'll always be a lot worse

https://youtu.be/pYqA2v1ChMs

this is the gear on my first kill

[obtuse quest]

Exsang's bleed immunity is just, weird.

It prevents FURTHER bleed stacks. Known since it existed.

[charred ridge]

usually you need 1.8k+ mana and you're good

[obtuse quest]

Known bug, it's most likely due to how spirit plague works. It applies a debuff, and then THAT debuff applies bleed with nothing to inherit but your INT.

[lost gale]

whatcha doin EHG

[old hull]

iirc, it scales with your global stats and the bleed pen in spirit plague's tree, but not int

[obtuse quest]

It's.. just weird. Probably because of how it's coded.

It's consistent, but in a weird way.

[lost gale]

bone curse bleed doesn't scale with bone curse damage apparently

[old hull]

Right, it's same as spirit plague's laceration, except no bleed pen in bone curse tree to scale with lol

[lost gale]

it's actually an interesting idea leaving them as kind of orphaned bleed on hit, like it doesn't belong to a skill per se and it's just generic/global bleed but the number of stacks should be considerably higher with that in mind

[north lance]

It's not an issue in the game, I can totally sustain if I keep running and use potions when porting back. I have 2 points in Macabre Dance and will add cooldown on Boots to improve overall

[mental rivet]

can someone help me understand this, my character is here: https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/dugfin/character/dugoo -- why does spirit plague only tick for 200 damage when I have the T8 Sinathia's mace equipped ?

it seems like +185 curse damage and +369% increased curse damage should cause way more damage than that, does it somehow not apply to spirit plague damage?

[charred ridge]

im assuming you're testing on training dummies?

[mental rivet]

This character isn't there yet, just random low level mobs

[old hull]

It should apply to spirit plague. Hard to say without knowing what enemies you're using it on, I'd recommend waiting until you're at the dummies, it's a lot more consistent and easily testable.
There could be a number of things going on.

[charred ridge]

two things you have to keep in mind: first thing is that mobs have damage reduction: https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/mobdr

second thing is that spirit plague gets 150% of added spell damage per second. if you have 185 flat curse damage, that means 277.5 damage per second

however dots tick multiple times per second

im not sure how many times spirit plague ticks every second, but if we say it's 3 times, then from that 277.5 damage per second, you'll only get a base of 92.5 damage per tick

then if you're playing around area level 45, you can halve that damage again down to 46 and then 400% increased damage would bring it up to 200 per tick

[mental rivet]

Pretty sure it's just bugged based on this conversation, I thought maybe it didn't apply to spirit plague. An amulet that gives +32 spell damage is a bigger boost to damage than equipping that mace. I'll record a bit of data on the training dummy to get more controlled data and verify what I think is indeed correct and then post a big. Thanks!

[charred ridge]

ye this game is bugged out of its mind so it's also possible

what's the damage difference with and without the mace out of curiosity?

[mental rivet]

I'm on my phone, but as a lvl 15 char it's like 270 tooltip dps without made, 540 with the mace

[charred ridge]

tooltip dps is super unreliable

best to not even look at it

[mental rivet]

Which is why I tested on a mob and saw the same approximate doubling

[charred ridge]

but one difference between the mace and the amulet is that the amulet says "spell damage" while the mace says "curse damage"

i'd wager curse damage doesn't apply to spirit plague

i wonder if it applies to any curse at all really

[mental rivet]

Yeah was the same though for all curses I tried

I think the affix is in some state of brokenness

[charred ridge]

what was the same for all curses?

double damage?

[mental rivet]

Yeah approximately

[charred ridge]

i havent looked super thoroughly at your character but it seems like you probably have about ~300% increased dmg

[mental rivet]

But they were much less direct and I had less confidence in them

[charred ridge]

from that necrotic ring affix and intelligence

100% on the relic

so the 350% from the mace is basically doubling your increased damage bracket

which really leads me to believe the flat just doesn't work

[mental rivet]

Yeah that'd make sense

[charred ridge]

also note the wording here:

"added spell damage"

[mental rivet]

So what on earth does curse damage even apply to? Lol

[charred ridge]

i'm willing to bet: nothing at all

this is the helmet affix

it's spell damage (for curses)

idols are the same

[mental rivet]

Yeah maybe they accidentally made it just curse damage instead of curse spell damage

[charred ridge]

i'd never seen "curse damage" before outside of this mace affix

[old hull]

Funnily enough, this is Sinathia's itself:

[mental rivet]

Hah...

Should be an easy fix!

[charred ridge]

we can schedule it to you for... 1.5!

[old hull]

Normally "+X curse damage" would be expected to be shorthand for "+X curse spell damage, +X curse melee damage, +X curse throwing damage, and +X curse bow damage"... so I mean, it shouldn't be any different, but could just be bugged

[mental rivet]

Yeah mechanistically that's an easy place to have a bug

[charred ridge]

i don't think non-spell curses exist though?

it's probably some spaghetti code in there

[old hull]

Well, there's acid skin, but aside from that you're right

[charred ridge]

like generic curse damage probably isn't coded to actually convert into anything since it makes no sense for it to exist in the first place

[mental rivet]

Well my leveling spirit plague mace seems like it might be a dud for now

That thing was going to be fire though

[charred ridge]

true but then i guess it still wouldn't be relevant to this situation since it's DoT tagged and no melee/bow/throwing

it wouldnt benefit from any kind of flat damage anyway as a dot

well, i guess in theory it would benefit from the sinathia affix lol

[old hull]

Most curses are DOTs, so that doesn't matter, it's the lack of the other tags that makes it junk though

[charred ridge]

ya

[old hull]

would be an interesting test - whether the sinathia's "+X curse damage" applies to acid skin

[charred ridge]

yeah i was just thinking that lol

[old hull]

my guess is it probably wouldn't, but would actually be funny

[mental rivet]

Is pearls the way to do acid skin?

Or am I thinking of something else?

[old hull]

That or chthonic fissure

[charred ridge]

you can proc it from fissure but then you'll have too many dmg numbers

[mental rivet]

I'll give it a try later when I test on the training dummies

[old hull]

Poison pearls would be the easiest to test it, to eliminate all the crazy other stuff from chthonic

[mental rivet]

I have a couple of those amulets

[charred ridge]

still technically haven't confirmed that the affix is even bugged in the first place, but im like 99% convinced already

all these bugs are just so funny to me at this point

[mental rivet]

yeah I do think cleaner evidence would be nice, so will confirm first

[charred ridge]

though i'm surprised a t8 amulet would give you more damage than 360% increased

how much more exactly?

actually nvm i thought spirit plague's base dmg was 90 per second but it's 90 over 3 seconds so 32 flat would bring that up to 90+144 per 3 seconds

[old hull]

Yeah, spirit plague has the standard base damage of +20 equivalent

[north lance]

Make Warlock great again

[north lance]

@hybrid onyx 11 time, will make better 🥹

[hybrid onyx]

Gzzz! Gj!!!!

[grave laurel]

so staying alive as necro.... just lots of ward decay and pray?

[lost gale]

overleech and some kind of rapid ward generation like fount of the erased

[grave laurel]

Overleech?

[lost gale]

leech doesn't stop when you hit 50% hp with corrupted form, so your health should bounce back from any damage almost instantly and anything less than a one-shot or a crazy damage spike should be survivable if you've been dpsing in the three seconds prior to getting hit. don't take anything that increases leech rate because it makes leech end sooner and reduces the window you have to move between packs or boss phases without losing your insane healing rate.

if your damage output is good then the 1% leech you get just for being a lich should be sufficient

[grave laurel]

Oh I'm a necromancer, not a lich. I can't leech

[lost gale]

oh my bad, I had corrupted form on my mind. some necro builds can get tons of ward by having minions die and be created quickly

you can stack hp reasonably well as Necro with Tyrant and maybe vitality to also scale minion dot

depends

[drifting temple]

Last step boots, t7 missing health to ward on gloves, pale ox , red rings, bastion, str stacking , cleaver solution, 2 idols for full health to ward convertion for potions, brewmaster belt

[pallid summit]

Running only the LL boots and gloves with no LL body armour seems really questionable to me. Brewmaster belt seems questionable to me on LL as well

[drifting temple]

Well it is meta build, idk what exactly is questionable in here

Pale ox is x times stronger than any ll body armor, and you convert all health from potions with idols, so you gain ward instead of health

[north lance]

Two flay lich mana stacks partying together is truly a disaster 😅

[lost gale]

insufficient enemy HP to leech off to keep the liches upright?

[north lance]

There will be someone who has to operate in human form 😆

[obtuse quest]

Brewmaster is a bit more "eh", but pale ox at least makes sense, it's a stupid amount of hp

[pallid summit]

Pale ox is extremely strong, I'm just not convinced LL is justified without the body armour, especially with brewmaster belt in there too

[lost gale]

if you're converting potion health to ward then brewmaster seems pretty good to me

one thing LL does struggle with is spikes of damage

not one-shot per se, because LL generally has a lot of EHP but you can't really recover from low-ward quickly in a pinch

[pallid summit]

Why? Endurance does nothing for ward, the only thing that brewmaster does here is give vitality

[lost gale]

health gained on potion use, lots of potion slots and idk why but with brewmaster it feels like way more potions/beers drop. Probably placebo idk

easy 2lp farm and good armor

[pallid summit]

Oh I guess it gives extra health on potion use, I normally ignore that line

I'm still not really convinced but it's possible I'm under valuing the added recovery and slots for potions

LL still seems very questionable to me with that setup though

[drifting temple]

This setup will have much higher ehp than your ll build without these items, esp without pale ox. If you dont like huge potions/armor play belt from abomination for ehp i guess

And your life build will have zero ehp vs this build

[rich stag]

Brewmaster is awful for a LL build

Well, Ward more specifically

[drifting temple]

how is it awful? we are playing diffferent games i guess

[pearl snow]

Brewmaster is great in general. Some dislike that its not fully utilized but its by no means awful for ward

Lich love the thing

[dark hatch]

Any warlock build this season that takes on high corruption and uber?

[slim niche]

Flamewhip

or whiplock

[vapid kindle]

profane veil too but the fissure not consistently applying acid skin is mega annoying on uber

[gritty cargo]

ghostflame

[pallid summit]

Unless I'm missing something the difference in ehp between the LL build and life is actually quite small. You only get 30-35% missing health gained as ward so your peak ward is barely higher than life + endurance. Pop a potion and brewmaster closes that gap almost entirely. That's assuming the same max life too, but it's probably easier to get more life without the LL gear

[drifting temple]

you gaining it as ward per second it is kinda different. you can use ward calc. and you will see how ward is superior

not gonna talk about sustain even

<@&1161418687471956101>

[pallid summit]

I used the ward calc, that's why I'm saying that. 200% ward retention and 3k life, you have 4.1k -4.6k peak ward which is barely better than the 3.9k ehp you get with life and endurance, and every potion you pop with brewmaster is another 300 for the life build

[drifting temple]

and what is source of your sustain with your liffe build ?

as example with 3k life you mentioned you will have 1k+ ward regen

[drifting temple]

also idk how you used it when you will have 4.8 without any ward threshold which you will have for sure

[pallid summit]

Mobile UI is awkward and drags sliders around when you don't mean to, I accidently added some health regen my b

I also set w/s to 0 but that has minimal influence here

[drifting temple]

ye. well anyway 200 ward retention is like very bad gear tbh

[pallid summit]

How much strength are you typically building?

[drifting temple]

you will have like 180+ in giga gear. i guess 150 is reasonable

[pallid summit]

Normally I'd say I think ward retention is a bit bait when it comes to ward numbers, you live and die on sustain, but your peak is so low here it probably is important actually

[drifting temple]

also i forgot but we will have not 35 % life but 40 because of passive

[pallid summit]

That's fair actually, forgot that

[drifting temple]

so it will be around 5.2 but with some threshold it will be lets say 5.5

but its with just 200 retention. and you will have more

[pallid summit]

Ok the numbers look more reasonable now with those changes. I'm still not convinced, because ward sustain is usually awful vs life, but we don't have leech and I don't have a clear picture of what necro has for life sustain so maybe the options are really that bad

[drifting temple]

well with life your sustain will be much lower. you will not be able to reach these regen numbers im pretty sure. at least for abom build

[pallid summit]

Also I don't want to keep fighting the calculator moving sliders while I'm tweaking other things lmao

[drifting temple]

it was possible to play regen with minion army and vessel before tho

so hybrid life/ward

[pallid summit]

Yeah that makes sense to me

[drifting temple]

ye and they murdered vessel what a good relic it was

like numbers nerfed in a half

[pallid summit]

Yeah I don't think vessel deserved the degree of nerfs it got

[obtuse quest]

Necro has jack for health recovery except regen basically.

LL makes sense for necro, ward per sec will be better than whatever regen they get most of the time.

[obtuse quest]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[north lance]

[charred ridge]

nice relict

[rich stag]

Vessel of Strife is still really good

[north lance]

2 times -17fp 🤒

[dark hatch]

Respecced to profane veil and didn't think it thru. I need a 2t7 on boots (first is cd recover because it's mandatory) and another for the move speed. Second is you have to change from aura of decay to transplant if you want a traversal. Havent felt this slow and suck so hard compared to the other builds i tried :} just a heads up from someone that tries first thinks later

[vapid kindle]

you can toggle on bone curse then swap it for transplant and it will stay active

[slim niche]

I got my whiplock to stun uberabby, still not 100% of the time, maybe 35-40% of the match stunned, but I am lacking T7 ignite on weapon, and have only t4 fire penetration on amulet, and have only one ring with t7 ignite (from the set ring, set affix)

so seems to be possible to permastun him

just a bit more DPS and stunchance (which is.. ignite) :p

but the fight starts to be so goddamn funny, stunned him a couple of times right when he is doing the pizza slam, so the slam did not go through but the animation (void-sliceses) were stuck on him for a while like a ballerina dress, same with whip-attacks and stuff.. animations get stuck doing zero damage, but persisting longer then they should be shown ( i guess as long as abby is stunned, atleast)

[lost gale]

stunning him out of that slam is kind of trolling yourself, it's the best DPS window in the whole fight

not too surprised that he doesn't react well when stunned repeatedly tho

[vapid kindle]

ye if you stun him during pizza or meteors it “cancels” the attack but the animation still plays out

[lost gale]

aura of decay doesn't need to be on your bar once you turn it on, though it disables itself when changing zones which is annoying, so you can just use unspecialised transplant without issue

[vapid kindle]

didn’t that get fixed this patch? ik for a fact bone curse doesn’t need to be on your bar tho, literally did it last night

[lost gale]

I think what they did is make AoD turn off when you change zones

so snapshotting with like AoD poison damage idols is an exercise in frustration, but still kinda possible

but I could well be wrong, haven't played in like 2 weeks

[vapid kindle]

i’ll test it later to be sure (i’d much rather be able to take AoD off my bar than bone curse in that build) but that build uses bone curse aura and that one still can be removed fine

[lost gale]

hard to remember what's what

[meager storm]

is anyone aware of a minion army build that is viable at higher corruption(>300)? Been messing around with different builds but abom and wraithlord are so much better

[old hull]

Depends on your definition of army. Poison skele rogues are good, you'd have about 5 of them and can add a support minion if you like.

[meager storm]

By army i mean a large number of minions, variants and damage type dont matter to but i struggle with survivability or getting threat away from me

[pearl snow]

Large army builds struggle compared to hyper specialized ones for dmg output and thats no different this season. If you struggle with survival though you may want to look into adding block to your build

Necro has a lot of options defensively since you care less about your own dmg and weapons can be utilized more defensively

The cleaver to conver str to int is one. That one Block Axe is another. Pale Ox is good dr

Threat may not be something you can solve because there is a monster modifier that has it specifically target the player and ignore minions

[meager storm]

i was considering that exact build with cleaver solution and bastion of honor, combined with strength stacking, You have convinved me , ill check it out

[meager storm]

Thanks for the info

[lost gale]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/oX1GjZ6A
It's hardly a finished build but you should be able to see what's going on and put the rest together

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.5

Class:

Acolyte (21) / Necromancer (82) / Lich (10)

General:

▸ Health: 2,121, Regen: 20/s
▸ Mana: 110.51, Regen: 8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 143%, Regen: 16/s
▸ Attributes: 34 Str / 6 Dex / 34 Int / 5 Att / 15 Vit
▸ Resistances: 0% / 0% / 0% / 50% / 0% / 115% / 35%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 180%, Threshold: 424
▸ Dodge Chance: 1% (24)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 35% (1,850)
▸ Block Chance: 75%, Mitigation: 50% (2,050)

Used skills:

Summon Volatile Zombie / Sacrifice / Rip Blood / Aura Of Decay / Bone Curse

[lost gale]

tl;dr is zombies make you a huge army of blood specters and you sustain mana by spamming rip blood on your army of blood specters

[meager storm]

ill take a look thanks

[pearl snow]

Recent cook?

[lost gale]

not my idea, but I couldn't find the planner so I made one quickly

don't think they were using bone curse but it seems decent for blood specters and so does t-rex/endurance stack

you get truly absurd amounts of ward generation divorced from your maxhp so you can largely skip investment in health

[deft ginkgo]

is it worth switch from necro to lich

[lost gale]

too open ended a question to answer, it's worth it if you want to play flay instead of abom obviously but in general?

[deft ginkgo]

ty

[wintry flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYnQl83N2ww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKLfZQVkWQ4
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/bvbm70gs#2

You could probs get more damage than that guys setup too, but the maxroll planner I made was a theorycraft, whereas his is actualized, so there is some overlap

[vapid kindle]

i did test just to confirm btw and AoD will deactivate if you remove it from your bar now

i guess ehg just forgot to give bone curse aura the same treatment xd

[deft ginkgo]

anyone woh can take me to end of time town

[pallid summit]

AoD updates every 4 seconds or so, so no you can't snapshot

[arctic grotto]

anybody got a pic of their max ward hp using the Architects of the Astral Blood? I want to see if its a good purchase

[lost gale]

it's easy to work out your max ward because it's determined by the affix which caps it at a multiple of your maxhp

architects will reach whatever that cap is

unless you have like 6k hp I guess

(200% to 240%) of Maximum Health applied as a Ward Limit
this line means that your ward cannot exceed that multiple of your max health (2.0 - 2.4x your max hp) so if you have 3k max health then it's anywhere from 6k to 7.2k depending on that roll.

[north lance]

I should’ve slammed t7 global inc crit chance on my relic instead...it would’ve saved 1 skill point from Flay. I forgot I had 100% buff from Harvest

[charred ridge]

that's only relevant with bugged shards

[inland ledge]

In what way are (were?) shards bugged?

[charred ridge]

marrow shards

they were bugged to do 100x more damage now it's only 20x

[north lance]

bad roll

[digital delta]

that's armour for a sentinel, in the acolyte channel

[obtuse quest]

You're probably unaware.

If you slap the % increased mana affix, it isn't considered a class affix.

[digital delta]

interesting

[obtuse quest]

Theory is that because it's on two classes, the game doesn't know which to set it as and doesn't set any instead.

[rich stag]

Weird having something so generic be a class affix in the first place

[obtuse quest]

If mage had the affix naturally, they'll break mana builds lmao

[north lance]

It's pretty interesting, isn't it? Thanks to it, some weird builds were born, like the Necromancer strength stack

[drifting temple]

Its not the same tho

[north lance]

To me, they're the same, you can't find strength on armor or helmet items for an Acolyte

Even the Ballista build is designed for dex and int, but they don't provide those stats on helmets or armor for rogues

[rich stag]

If that was the case you would just balance them accordingly

[obtuse quest]

They did that.
By not giving it to them. That's their way to balance it.

[charred ridge]

mage can't even cheese it cause they'd use unstable core which is mage tagged and can't receive the mana% affix

and helmet usually requires a +level of skills

[drifting temple]

You can change any stat in special echo tho, so its intended, and mana% affix is clearly a bug

[north lance]

It was already there when I played version 1.1. back then, there was no such thing as woven echo, and the devs didn’t say anything like that either

[drifting temple]

Well today is not 1.1 right? I hope you understand that its a bug, ive read few your messages tho, and i guess you dont actually

[charred ridge]

it was a bug a year ago, now it's a feature

the devs might not approve but they've had over a WHOLE year to fix it if they didn't like it

[drifting temple]

You are just saying it because yre abusing it i guess

[charred ridge]

though now that people are actually using it i guess they might fix it next patch

[drifting temple]

Its like snapshoting of minions

[charred ridge]

no I'm saying it because they're so slow with it like idk man

[drifting temple]

It was not fixed until maxroll guides were full of this tech

[charred ridge]

snapshotting is probably also a lot harder to fix than just some affix not getting tagged

but yes i agree

EHG just sweeps bugs under the rug for as long as it doesn't cause them problems

[drifting temple]

We all know how many bugs le have, its not even funny at this point tbh, like if you pick node you can not be sure if it works actually etc, and they are pushing new expansions/seasons without fixing bugs for years

[charred ridge]

ye

we can't pretend bugs don't exist

[north lance]

It will be a feature until they decide to change it. I’m afraid I don’t know if I’ll live long enough to see that happen

[charred ridge]

what am i gonna do, use fangs of the berserker and have an empty belt slot and a completely dysfunctional build? no, im not delusional and i'm not gonna shoot myself in the foot by pretending

so if i can use mana% as an affix and i know that it's in the game and it's here to stay, im also not gonna pretend like it doesnt exist

it might be gone in 1.4 or 1.5 but it's part of the game as of 1.3

[drifting temple]

Im not talking you not to use it , ofc you should use it if devs do not care, but for me its just unfixed bug

[charred ridge]

also you probably missed Kuden's point that strength on an acolyte helmet was literally a bug that was actually turned into a feature

so the devs ended up approving that bug

[drifting temple]

No, i understand it, i mean currently its intended, and even improved

[charred ridge]

but yeah mana% is an unfixed bug

it's just that it's been in the game for so damn long with EHG being aware the whole time, that now i'd rather call it a feature

one year ago i was calling it a bug, but not anymore

[drifting temple]

Well i got your opinion about this, i think it depends on the point of view, both sides are right at this point i guess

[charred ridge]

similar to how speedrunners just clip through all these walls, it's obviously blatant bug abuse, but at that point the devs are not pushing fixes, and the players' goal is to push a game to its limits, so they'll use the tools that the game offers them

and there are still glitchless categories for speedruns

can play the game both ways

[rich stag]

It’s a weird way of doing it for sure and as stated before that only applies to non LP items. If Mage had access to it I really don’t think much would change tbh

[vapid kindle]

idk if it’s a “bug” so much as “unintended interaction the devs never bothered to fix” similar to snapshotting

but if i’m being completely honest i have no idea why that affix is class restricted to begin with when literally every base class has incentives to mana stack

[old hull]

It's officially a bug since the devs called it that, but people can think of it however they want ofc.
As with most things, restrictions are for theme and/or balance. tbh, my guess is they will probably just make the increased mana affix unrestricted instead of making it actually class lock.

[vapid kindle]

ah i didn’t realize they referred to it as a bug. and yeah there’s no real reason that it should be class locked imo

[charred ridge]

why's that your guess?

honestly i feel like they might do that cause it sounds easier than fixing it lmao

[vapid kindle]

i don’t see the real justification for class locking it but yeah the real reason it’s much more likely to just become unrestricted is it’s prob way easier to code

[old hull]

Just compared to the alternatives, it seems like the easiest.
Alternatives being fixing it and then either leaving existing items as-is or invalidating existing items. Neither is particularly nice as an option, and the affix existing isn't really breaking anything currently, so may as well make it available in general and maybe rebalance.

Among those options where they fix it, they tend to lean towards retroactively deleting/restricting things like this

[charred ridge]

iuno, flay might be balanced without an extra 50% mana

but i guess it doesnt matter since mana stack is getting capped in 1.4 anyway

just cap all the mana nodes then we can give everybody a mana affix

[old hull]

lol maybe, but making it an feature doesn't mean they won't adjust the numbers along with it

[charred ridge]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[lost gale]

has anyone reported the abom sac bug on the forums? I don't have an account

ah I checked and it has been raised

also lol blood specters don't scale with int or the nodes which are meant to buff them in sacrifice apparently

[bleak barn]

Has the corrupted form bug been fixed? Can I play now?

[charred ridge]

what build is it preventing you from playing?

[bleak barn]

I can't find the bug thread, they must have removed it from the Discord.

I found a mention that the bug wasn't fixed, well, good luck, I hope the PS release was worth it and they can finally hire people and fix serious bugs.

[charred ridge]

they rebuilt the feedback forums and archived the old ones

it looks like bugs are now solely to be reported from the in-game tool

i still wanted to know what build the bug is preventing you from playing but that's alright

[bleak barn]

I don't know the name of the build; I make them myself whenever possible.
Low HP Lich, with corrupted form, on physical. Which collects bonuses for low HP.

[charred ridge]

alright fair enough

[bleak barn]

But the Corpted Form doesn't provide the bonus it claims, and I'm missing out on a lot of bonuses. I didn't realize this right away.
I've been wanting to try out the Lich for a while, and as soon as they gave it a new skill, I decided it was time.
The aura flick is also really annoying; I've already died because of it. I guess that hasn't been fixed either.

I still have a gif where you can see the build.

[charred ridge]

are you colorblind? this game looks different than what im used to

[bleak barn]

That's why I died too.

I wanted physicality, bleed, and low HP. I'm not chasing the meta.

Well, I hope I'll be able to run Lich next season, if it doesn't get nerfed too much and 300 corruption will be comfortable to run.

[charred ridge]

i doubt the lower end of the spectrum will get nerfed

[bleak barn]

I also thought about my Falconer, without Umbral Blades, who only hit with his bird. He wasn't super strong. But instead of nerfing the Umbral Blades and their synergy with the bird, they decided to nerf the Falconer itself.

I'm not sure of anything anymore.

[charred ridge]

ya the falconer nerfs weren't good

well to clarify, the divebomb cancel nerf was great, the rest of the nerfs weren't needed on top of the former

[bleak barn]

I agree, but the developers decided differently. So we'll wait and see. I hope, but don't believe.

[umbral oracle]

I doubt lich will be unplayable for sub 1k corruption unless they actively go in to nerf all of its builds. Even a self made poison lich (AoD + Hungering Souls w/Curse of Perseverance staff) was cruising around in 6-700 corruption without any issues on mediocre gear, and that build will get buffed by about 30-35% more damage if they fix Corrupted Form.

Mana Flay is an outlier in performance, but luckily the mechanics that allow it to perform at its current level appear to have little overlap with other lich builds.

[little wigeon]

All they gotta do is cap the chaos bolts or mana multiplier and boom nerf hammer on mana flay

[charred ridge]

ya cap my fun so im done with the patch in 3 days instead of 7

surely thats the best way to do it

[little wigeon]

Well they are notorious for caps so I wouldn't be surprised. Will be sad, I really enjoyed mana flay out of all the ones I tried

[peak flare]

Now you can also report bugs here: https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/ninety-nine-little-bugs-on-the-wall/79993

[steady spade]

is mana flay lich best lich build

[mint sluice]

đúng zị

[steady spade]

ngon

[upper wedge]

@charred ridge Could you explain how I'd read these tables please, because they don't make much sense to me.

[charred ridge]

in 20 mins i can

[upper wedge]

Unfortunate 😄

[arctic moat]

it's it literally what it says on the label? chance that the affix's tier or the affix itself will be rerolled? so 0% reroll means if it rolls the lowest tier - it stays like that.

[upper wedge]

Table 2, Row 1: 50% chance to reroll 1 into 1. Then 22% chance for who knows.

how does this make sense?

Table 1:
0% chance for 46.15% tier 1 into 77.42% tier 7 affix.
What am I supposed to get from this information?

How is this "literally what it says on the label"? What is it telling me?

None of these fields make any sense to me

[arctic moat]

ok, i dunno what exactly that means. 😅 i wanted to say more, but i run away now 🏃 i think red is base chance, then grey-purple is chance for rerolls of an imprinted drop with tiers 2-5 being somewhere inbetween grey and purple values

[upper wedge]

Hopefully the author will respond eventually so we can get some clarity lol

I can somewhat guess that in table 1 in row 2, a tier 1 affix has a 46.15% chance to be rerolled (rerolled into what?) and a tier 7 has a 77.42% chance to be rerolled (rerolled into what?), but then what does the 0% in column 1 mean.
Table 2 I can't even guess what it wants to convey.

[charred ridge]

alright that took more than 20 minutes

[charred ridge]

did you get any answers

basically there is affix type and affix tier, the table on the left is for affix type, table on the right is for tier

if you have a t1 affix with 0% reroll chance like idk t1 dex, then it will have a 46.15% chance to reroll into something else (like idk attunement)

and if you have a t7 affix with 90% reroll chance like idk +4 levels to erasing strike, then it will have a 97.74% chance to reroll into another affix like idk chance to inflict time rot or whatever

[upper wedge]

How does 0% chance to reroll have a 46% chance to reroll?

[charred ridge]

reroll chance refers to the rarity of an affix

i mean i get that it's a bit confusing because reroll chance means two different things

[upper wedge]

So column 1 refers to inherent reroll chance of affixes, whereas column 2 and 3 are tier rerolls?

[charred ridge]

no, column 2 and 3 are affix rerolls

your int can turn into attunement or vitality or whatever

column 1 refers to screenshot above at the bottom (very rare - 90% reroll chance)

tier reroll is different

this is the table used for tier rerolling

[upper wedge]

So a very rare affix (90% in case of Added Health and Added Health Regen) has a 94.62% chance to reroll tier 1 into another modifier and a 97.74% chance to reroll tier 7 into another modifier?

[upper wedge]

This table I don't understand at all.

[charred ridge]

yeah

[charred ridge]

i mean if you have a tier 5 affix it has a 55% chance to be rerolled

and 0.14% of the time (for MG) it will go to tier 7

or 22% of the time it'll go to tier 3

[upper wedge]

OOOOH. Yea those 2 info being in the same table confused me

[upper wedge]

Assuming you have the data on it too - what is the chance of o being rerolled?
I'm asking because the doc says that open affixes will be kept, but my 77/1o imprints pretty much always proc as 77/1x or 77/xx.

example

[charred ridge]

idk if borders would help readability

[upper wedge]

I think separation would make it clearer. It's still interpretable as "tier 1 has a 50% chance of being rerolled into tier 1"

[charred ridge]

it's in the doc

[upper wedge]

And perhaps a disclaimer what column 1 in this table refers to.

Thank you for taking the time to explain the table to me, it's clear now 🙂

[charred ridge]

best i can do

i renamed reroll chance to rarity

[weak dagger]

hi guys, I'm new to the game and I've started necromancer (abomination). Should I collect all the items with minion damage and disenchant it to gain the pieces for improvement of my gear later? Or I'm getting it wrong? I've just started monolith.

[arctic moat]

no need to get literally everything. you'll be swimming in excessive shards soon enough. dunno how much is enough, but just know that the further you get, the easier it will be to get even more. so no need to break down every t1-t2 minion affix. some affixes are also more rare than others - might be worth breaking down those ones even if they're weak.

[weak dagger]

So, I literally just copying loot filter and pushing forward monolith and looking for needed gear? Don't need to craft anything?

[arctic moat]

if you want to - sure. crafting is optional initially, but it helps and the cost is insignificant, so might as well do some of it when it helps going faster if you want to go faster.

[upper wedge]

During campaign on your season starter you should collect everything with relevant affixes and disenchant.
In Monoliths or on alts this is not necessary.

[upper wedge]

Crafting (if you really want to call what's in this game that) is how you gear up. You will not drop the base you want with the 4 affixes you want on the tiers you want them on. I disagree that crafting is "optional".

[obtuse quest]

You won't have enough shatterings if you collect Everything during the campaign. Collect only the higher tier ones.

[upper wedge]

🙄 use common sense, no extra disclaimer required

[obtuse quest]

You're in an ARPG group, there IS no common sense! Some people can't even read!

[pearl snow]

Yeah reading is incredibly hard

[tacit plinth]

I mean its collected everything and removal or shatter during campaign and early monos ,actually good to shatter wvery affix you will need early on dont need to be t5 to do that

[obtuse quest]

On paper, you won't get enough shatters for common affixes during the campaign.

You'll run into the "I got stuff to break but no shatter runes" problem

[tacit plinth]

And then you will buy the runes from the merchant like any new player

Then you will have no gold its a learning curve🤣

[indigo sluice]

I know it's late in the season, took a break from playing earlier on. Reason is, I got stuck on how to improve my build further. Trying to do empowered monos is slow going right now. Doing anything harder than 100 corruption is just tedius and I feel like I'm getting one shot by harder mobs...

What should I change in this build? open to suggestions/feedback.
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AVzJpplA

[stuck owl]

Warlock, Level 86

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.5

Class:

Acolyte (25) / Lich (23) / Warlock (51)

General:

▸ Health: 1,516, Regen: 25.04/s
▸ Mana: 175.44, Regen: 13.28/s
▸ Ward Retention: 293%, Regen: 215/s
▸ Attributes: 9 Str / 22 Dex / 56 Int / 9 Att / 23 Vit
▸ Resistances: 117% / 15% / 15% / 76% / 90% / 237% / 66%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 36%, Threshold: 303
▸ Dodge Chance: 5% (108)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 31% (1,330)

Used skills:

Chthonic Fissure / Chaos Bolts / Spirit Plague / Rip Blood / Profane Veil

[obtuse quest]

Is this witchfire? If so, I have a LOT of questions.

[indigo sluice]

yea it is based arround witchfire/cthonic/chaos bolts. I used a previous season build as my basis and did comparisons to other builds to try and figure out best way to scale

some items are placeholders/not stricly necessary (but are the best I could do) like the helmet/gloves

[obtuse quest]

Items: Marina's is like 3rd pick here. You're target is a Sinathia's Dying on a Solarum Hammer if possible.
Penance swine is not good. Use decreptfy swine.
Maehlin doesn't really do much here? You don't have any bleed chance to convert.

Skills: I have no clue why you're trying to proc Harvest.
Why are you specced into bleed in Spirit plague, it's not going to do any notable dot damage bcause of it's bug not getting modifiers.

And your health is absolute terrible, even for lowlife.

[indigo sluice]

OK so marina's is 3rd pick, and I did see sinathia's dying on a previous build, but why? It's not even using set bonus and don't understand why solarum hammer.
Thanks for letting me know which swine to use, I thought the penance one looked good. I was using Maehlin mainly for the increased fire damage because I haven't found any great T6+ gloves to use, eventually I was going to swap helm/gloves/belt out for isadora's set shards affixed onto some items, but yea maelin was just a placeholder.

as for skills, so everything else looks good except for the 1 point into harvest on chaos bolts? I could put the point elsewhere, just figured it was extra damage for 1 point.

I wasn't aware of bleed being bugged in spirit plague

and no offense, but I asked for advice: not criticism. if you're just gonna gripe about how horrible it is, then it may be better for you not to respond at all.

[obtuse quest]

1. Sinathia gives cursed damage. Solarum Hammer gives fire pen. Witchfire relies on Dot so implicits are stats sticks basically. Penance is bad. You use Decreptfy because it's a free 15% more dot damage. If you wanted to use gloves for damage, Atrophy/Mortality exists.

Isadora's 2 piece bonus does not benefit witchfire, for reasons unknown.

2.If that's your style then yes, harvest is going to do jackall damage.

3. Even in a low life build, health is important. Being at 1.5k means your ward is capped at around 3.5k, which is really not that much.

[indigo sluice]

Ok so the best for this build mainhand is sinathia shards on a solarum hammer. For gloves which is better stand-alone atrophy or mortality? Do you think it would still be worth it to go for isadora's for the shard implicits on each spot (helm, belt, gloves) as well as the 3 piece bonus? Or no because the 2 piece bonus is broken.

As for skills/style is there anything inherently wrong with the skill loadout I have/spec'd? Should I be speccing skills differently? Ill drop the harvest and throw it into something else I guess then unless you have alternative skill suggestions.

And I'll try to increase the health on my items to boost the ward gen.

Also, are the passives ok? or should I choose differently? I know its only lvl 86 so there is some wiggle room.

[obtuse quest]

Mortality lets you free up skill points so you don't need to find marked for death. Atrophy gives generic pen for all DoTs. Really depends on setup.

Isadora is decent if you have a mana issue since the mana efficiency still works. and the 2 piece bonus still helps for the purposes of damned overload procing.

It honestly depends, your setup is basically a defensive setup. There's a lot of other skill combos to use like fire Hungering souls with a source of spreading flame for another % more modifier, infernal shade for bossing purposes, etc.

The passives looks ok for your level, nothing I would really change.

If you want more details, there's a witchfire build guide that might help:https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/witchfire-warlock

[stuck owl]

Witchfire Warlock Build Guide

Game Cycle / Version

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3

Class

Acolyte / Warlock

Used skills

• Chthonic Fissure
• Bone Curse
• Spirit Plague
• Chaos Bolts
• Profane Veil

Used unique items

• Downfall of the Righteous
• Ashes of Mortality
• Boneclamor Barbute
• Pearls of the Swine

Tags

Monolith Farmer / Arena / Season Starter / Beginner / DoT

Created by Tevonsonte · Apr 29, 2025, 12:26 AM

[charred ridge]

this affix is bugged btw

[indigo sluice]

what affix is bugged?

[charred ridge]

the one he screenshot

sinathia

[indigo sluice]

so.....i'm screwed?

[charred ridge]

maybe iuno

i didnt read the conversation

im just letting you know

allegedly the increased damage works but not the flat

[indigo sluice]

k thanks for the update

[obtuse quest]

Then it doesn't really matter, Witchfire doesn't use the flat as much.

[nova ore]

Hello everyone

Nice to meet you

[lost gale]

Just echoing some of what Kzb is saying, because of the unique way in which Witchfire scales & how many passive points it costs to get online there's really no such thing as a decent Witchfire and X build or an X and Witchfire build.

You're either building for Witchfire and using it to clear monoliths quickly & efficiently but having bad single target or you're wasting 20+ passive points on a different build to add a weak & unreliable DOT to the mix.

There are 3 stats that matter really, chance to ignite, chance to damn and % increased curse damage plus your DOT damage modifier. Because the damage is split it's tough to scale penetration beyond Weaver's Gift (which is worse than a Sinathia Hammer) and Atrophy and fire or necrotic damage increases are likewise only half as valuable.

Intelligence doesn't scale the damage of Witchfire at all, so it's a much worse affix than on many other builds so ward retention will likely be relatively low (but LL is still the best option in most cases...)

Chaos Bolts (unconverted) is by far the best skill for triggering Ignite & Damned overloads but it's about as good unspecialised as it would be with unlimited skill points.

[indigo sluice]

Ok, that's a fairly nebulous response that doesn't really help other than the snippet about what scales, and what doesn't scale (apparently intelligence)

Never said I was trying to make a "Witchfire and X" build, just that I was messing around with it and how to improve it. I think using Astral Blood proves the point that it helps scale the damned overload/ignite overload though I could be wrong.

Not sure what "LL" is either. And are you saying I shouldn't be speccing chaos bolts at all then?

[lost gale]

LL is low-life which is the overall term for gaining ward based on missing hp like with astral blood or exsanguinous.

Nah you should spec chaos bolts just because there isn't anything better but I'm saying that to illustrate that one of the flaws of Witchfire as a build is that beyond having a skill that applies a lot of damned & ignite stacks with the fire & torment tags to trigger the overloads there's only so much impact your skills can have and when it comes to gear you're similarly limited to only a few affixes really mattering and they're not widely available ones.

All the scaling comes from Grimhilde's Domain and Downfall of the Righteous.

also I don't see how letting you know that fire modifiers and necrotic modifiers are half as good as they seem and intelligence doesn't work at all and identifying the affixes which you want to chase (T7 chance to damn on chest & helmet is strongly advised, chance to ignite on weapon too) is nebulous, that's essential concrete information for anyone wanting to play Witchfire.

[slim niche]

I tried to get whiplock-witchfire running, and kinda did, as witchfire and whip are pretty close to each other in passive tree. You can get 'full specced' witchfire with relatively small investment after getting your flamewhip setup, and witchfire also scales from ignite that is the scaler for whips, so there is that.. but, damned chance is kinda hard to come by with whiplock, and stuff dies too fast to proc both ignite and damned to keep witchfire up because your whips hit for bazillion. I found that it is much easier to build around whips and infernal shades, playes a lot smoother.

but, the real kicker is, whiplock - volatile zombie - infernal shade xD .. pretty much build cookie cutter whiplock, then pick volatile zombie and spec that to proc infernal shade. Spec shade to go BOOM. equip one zombie-ring. Spec fissure to spawn zomboids. Get t8 spirit release speed on chest. Spec bonecurse for boneprison, spec profane veil with apocalypse to transform your boneprisons so zombies witch instaboom and spawn infernal shades that instaboom. While you have your whips slapping like a truck and stunning bosses xD

it clears kinda well, but OOM is a problem xD

but a meme build, not a serious endeavour, cleared 1.2k corruption without problems though

[obtuse quest]

if you can clear 1k corrupt it's less of a meme than you think.

[charred ridge]

really depends what "clearing" means

after some shit that i've seen i'm pretty convinced that it's literally impossible to make a build that doesnt "clear" 1k corruption

[muted mist]

what's the necro meta look like at the moment? looking for whatever has good clear at 300 corruption with minimal investment. assuming abom is top, followed by probably some profane oblation variant or wraithlord?

i've got a blood specter build and it has good single target but it's just too much work for the clear speed i'm getting

[obtuse quest]

Abom>Wraithlord>Profane/SkeleRogues>most other stuff

[wintry flame]

DPS wise a lot of stuff sits above Profane but yeah they ain’t much different

[muted mist]

anything particularly interesting or fun that beats Profane that wasn't mentioned? I've got zombie pop, cold army, fire army, and golem retal on my radar but I didn't think any of those beat Profane

[wintry flame]

Hmm anything interesting is tough because the state of Necro hasn’t changed that much, but I think phys/str stacking might be something to explore and revenant, but more in the minion army sphere. I also haven’t seen people really abuse double dread shade too much

[rich stag]

State of Necro sucks

One of the worst if not the worst class imo

[obtuse quest]

Shaman exists, necro can't be the worse.

[obtuse quest]

Spellblade exists.

To believe there is a class worse than spellblade is copium behavior.

[old hull]

Shaman and MM can compete tbf, but necro is nowhere near the bottom outside of people that just really don't like minion classes

[obtuse quest]

Is necro bad? Debatable.
The worst? Nowhere close, they can sic abom and do their job

[slim niche]

meaning that you can run around, kill stuff and not get killed 😄 people are a little bit sleeping with zombies, I don't have time to make videos about my tries as my freetime is limited atm, but there are some videos

patoulefou has been uploading some test stuff; https://youtu.be/J7elj8FF_DQ and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBqCccIKGOA

my tries have not been with the idea of utilizing zombies themselves, as is on those videos, but rather utilize zombies as a way to spam shade that you then explode, as it is quite easy to build shadepop and to have a lot of i.e. spirits from fissures (with t8 spirit release speed)

so your limiting factor is not the spirits, especially on single target, but the fact that how fast you can spam shades, and if you spam shades + find away to spawn shades like a madman (like with zombies) then you ofc do a lot of damage

[obtuse quest]

You're describing infernal pop, which was meta early on for being cheap as hell to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3jGckpacr0

[slim niche]

yeah, pretty much

[rich stag]

Abom being OP isn’t the same as Necro being bad.

Necro as a class is bad without question.

[obtuse quest]

We also have Wraithlord, Rogue Skeletons, Profane...

Necro is nowhere near the bottom. Calling it the worst when Spellblade exists is comedic.

[rich stag]

I didn't call it the worst, I said it was one of the worst which I stand by.

[obtuse quest]

Which cannot be true because spellblade is literally dead in a corner with only one viable build that doesn't even play to it's strengths.

[rich stag]

Necro can be one of the worst despite Spellblade existing, that is what is meant by "one of the worst"

[obtuse quest]

It cannot be one of the worst when the worst is the worst by a landslide.

No other classes come close to how terrible spellblade is.

Bad? Yeah, sure. Part of the worst? Impossible.

[rich stag]

Of course it can, I'm not going to argue in circles with you about it though.

[obtuse quest]

Eh, if it helps, I don't think anyone else shares your viewpoint.

[rich stag]

It's not a view point it's literally the meaning of the words I said

You can't argue words that are clearly defined

[obtuse quest]

Some people can agree to necro being bad, but no one other than you would say "Necro is one of the worst".

[rich stag]

We have what 18 classes?

Where would you place Necro among them?

For me Necro would be very far down the list

[obtuse quest]

Bottom 6. I can think of 5 classes worse.

one having a gap so big that EHG would have to dig down to find it.

[rich stag]

Bottom 6 is among the worst classes for sure wouldn't you say?

[obtuse quest]

Not really.

Among the worst would be bottom 3

[rich stag]

It means 2/3 of the other classes are better

[obtuse quest]

We have 15 classes.

[rich stag]

And most of those 2/3 are miles better with the exception of maybe Abom build which is a massive outlier

15 classes

Okay

Bottom 6 is still bad XD

[obtuse quest]

Not really miles better? Wraithlord can stand up to most Druid builds, some VK builds, Sorc, and Runemaster.

[rich stag]

This is just an imaginary line you're drawing so we're just drawing differing imaginary lines.

Necro is in a bad place, that is a fact.

[obtuse quest]

BD is only slighty worse than necro.

[obtuse quest]

Fair, but calling it "worst" is a different point than bad.

[rich stag]

I said it's one of the worst, not the worst

[obtuse quest]

To me, a class is horrible if it doesn't even play to it's identity or has more than one build.

[rich stag]

Big difference

[obtuse quest]

Necro clears both of my points.

Spellbalde is the only one to not do either

[rich stag]

This is a different conversation entirely

[obtuse quest]

Yeah, I'm telling you that everyone's viewpoint of "worst" is different.

[rich stag]

Spellblade is in a awful spot but that doesn't really change my point

[rich stag]

To an extent, but things can be measured objectively too.

[obtuse quest]

Your definition of "worst" is so far, you're the only one says so.

[obtuse quest]

Objectively, then necro will no where be near the bottom, in terms of possible corruption levels ignoring abom.

[rich stag]

Again, please stop quoting me incorrectly

"one of the worst" and "worst" are two very different statements

I said the former, not the latter

[rich stag]

That's not the only way to measure how good a class is and tbh isn't even a healthy one as every class has at least 1 build that can push high corruption.

[obtuse quest]

How high is their possible would be the metric here if that would be used. Is there a better way to measure how good LE classes are objectively?

[rich stag]

Better? Depends on what you're trying to measure

The amount of viable options a class had, viable itself would be up for argument.

Just the general amount of options

The highest average corruption among builds

There are a lot of ways, it really depends on what your goals are

[obtuse quest]

Assuming viable in this case is breaking 300c, then necro would ALSO not be anywhere at the lower half.

[rich stag]

300c is a very low bar these days even for Spellblade I would imagine

[obtuse quest]

Spellblade barely breaks 300c with more than 2 setups.

[rich stag]

I'm not really that knowledgeable on mage or spellblade so I can't really say

[obtuse quest]

Beating abberoth would be a decent marker.

Since everyone knows abberoth's power and is fixed.

[rich stag]

Normal I take it?

[obtuse quest]

Yeah, normal.

[rich stag]

Yeah

[obtuse quest]

Ubberoth would be funny because the rankings would be lopsided.

Anyway, for abberoth, Necro would have I think 3 workable setups?

[rich stag]

Ubberoth is mostly down to either player skill or an absurdly busted build XD

[obtuse quest]

Which to my knowledge 3 is pretty much just a bit below average?

[rich stag]

3 what?

[obtuse quest]

Viable builds.

[rich stag]

Oh

[obtuse quest]

If you cut abom it'll be 2.

[rich stag]

More than 3 builds can clear Uberoth

[obtuse quest]

I was talking about "How many viable builds does necro have against abberoth"

[rich stag]

Ohh

Yeah?

[obtuse quest]

Which to my knowledge, matches Paladin, Falconer, Lich, Warlock.

In viable build count.

(3 of those classes have way stronger builds though)

[rich stag]

I think Paladin must have 6+ viable builds

I'm sure there are a tonne of builds on Paladin capable of it

Paladin is one of the stronger classes though so it makes sense

Falconer probably has about that

Maybe a few more

Lich has quite a few

Warlock isn't in a great spot either

[obtuse quest]

Falconner in theory only has a small amount of builds.
They're STRONG builds though.

[obtuse quest]

But Warlock has the title of "Being able to mass Stun Uberroth."

[rich stag]

Falconer has like 4 builds?

Maybe 5

[obtuse quest]

4 iirc.

[rich stag]

Whiplock yeah

Torment Lock can probably clear Uberoth but not in any record times, Profane Veil and Whiplock

There might be others

[obtuse quest]

Those are probably the only ones strong enough to touch uberroth.

[rich stag]

Maybe yeah

[obtuse quest]

(Only recorded clear is Whiplock iirc)

[rich stag]

There is a lot of bias with recorded kills as people typically gravitate to the strongest option but yeah

It's all we have to go off

[obtuse quest]

My knowledge is based of cfmed videos, at least those are somewhat reliable.

[rich stag]

Understandable

[lost gale]

paladin has judgement, phys javelin, self cast smite, multistrike smite (crit), multistrike smite (electrify), reflect and a shield throw/MA build that I've seen do Uber iirc

maybe also melee multistrike actually

[obtuse quest]

Oh the list expanded

[lost gale]

I think the melee ms was maybe vk actually

[vapid kindle]

there are recorded clears with profane veil

[lost gale]

and offline clears with very achievable gear for apocalypse zombies, which is also profane veil but a different profane veil build at least

[vapid kindle]

if we’re talking about uber viability forge guard is clearly a massive step below literally everything else, having a grand total of zero builds that are actually good at uber on reasonable gear

[lost gale]

Can't forge guard just do a mildly worse version of phys crit siege barrage javelin for it? or is it way worse in a way I'm not appreciating

[vapid kindle]

it’s like less than half the dps and you lose a ton of your mobility

[lost gale]

less than half? is holy aura & the triple crit passive worth that much or am I missing something obvious about why paladin is good for that build

[vapid kindle]

it’s mostly holy aura & the penalty from forgemaster’s might

if you look at the javelin kills on paladin they’re like 6min and the forge guard ones are literally 12+

[lost gale]

big oof

[vapid kindle]

oh and the paladin mastery bonus

[lost gale]

forge guard really sucks, the power fantasy of it doesn't even hold up in a disappointing way given all the weapons that don't work (as you'd hope) as forged weapons

[vapid kindle]

all the skills suck, the mastery bonus sucks, the passive tree sucks, you don’t remotely get the fantasy, 99% of the builds are just better on paladin or vk, its entire identity is spread in 15 different directions while being actually great at none of them

[slim niche]

@obtuse quest @rich stag there is harvest warlock that has a recorded uberroth kill https://youtu.be/OJC4StXVliw and isn't this zombie-shenanigans also uber https://youtu.be/J7elj8FF_DQ

[obtuse quest]

Zombie's new to me but ye

Oh both are offline kills lmao

[slim niche]

..and? you do know that game has an offline mode, and quite a lot of people play it.. well, offline

[vapid kindle]

extremely easy to cheat/fake gear in offline and no real way to prove that gear is legitimate offline

[obtuse quest]

As stated, offline makes it hard to verify if the game cilent was changed or not.

[slim niche]

well that's just silly if we are talking about theorycrafting, another thing if the topic was leaderboards or such, for theorycrafting i see it as a good way of testing builds fast - pluck in your gear and pew pew pew you have your build

[vapid kindle]

we were talking about uber viability, and it's extremely difficult to make the argument that these builds are legitimately uber viable with no way to verify what gear was actually used.

if they had at least opened their inventory at the end of the video to show their gear, that would add some legitimacy to the kill but neither video does that. even then, it's super easy to fudge character stats in offline even if the gear is realistic.

[lost gale]

misha also did uber (offline) with a version of that zombies build and it worked okay, that's with single exalted affixes and no high LP items too

[obtuse quest]

Offline at the end can be used as proof that "Oh, it's probably possible.", but not strictly a proper kill, since there's no verification.

[charred ridge]

it's a proper kill if you did it proper

[obtuse quest]

This assumes you can prove it's proper.

[charred ridge]

no

[slim niche]

for me it's enough, I dont care at all if its live or offline, aslong as there is no gameclient shenanigans and items used are such that can spawn in game

[charred ridge]

if somebody doesn't want to believe it's proper that's like their problem

[obtuse quest]

With the possibility of game cilent modification, how can you trust that it's proper?

[slim niche]

this is buildcrafting, not leaderboards, why would anyone fake builds? like, for what? 74 views on a dying game on youtube? 😄

[charred ridge]

idk we're talking about killing uber not doing a no hit run of the dark souls trilogy on SL1

[obtuse quest]

You'll be surprised.

We had people claiming builds that work, then just to find out man did his tests at full T7 gear

[charred ridge]

like it's easy to tell if your gear is legit or not

provided you have a planner

there's literally nobody going through the length of faking realistic gear offline and claiming they farmed for it

kinda just have to trust that people aren't complete morons at some point

99% of ppl posting offline stuff are just testing stuff and they are not hiding it

it's pretty rare that people actually play offline without mods but if somebody says they do and their gear doesn't look like red flags then idk i dont see a reason to be overly cautious about it

cause let's be real for a second: unless you play MG or with friends, offline is objectively the better version of the game, and it's completely absurd that we have to discredit people trying to play the strictly better version of the game

it's like people are asking for features like pausing the game while gaslighting themselves that offline doesn't exist it is quite mindblowing

[slim niche]

yea offline is actually very, very smooth experience

[obtuse quest]

Though considering we had bugs that only happen in one version and not the other, it’s still really funny

[charred ridge]

you can use movement skills in town and you don't lose maps or hardcore characters to disconnects

[charred ridge]

ya thats how we cope that every other patch is riddled with bugs cause EHG tests things offline and then it works differently online

[obtuse quest]

Or something working perfectly fine online but broke offline, like how the hell does that happen

[charred ridge]

i play the game online mostly cause i post some stuff to youtube so ya im forced to "prove" that my shit is real and also i dabble with MG a bit sometimes

but i played offline on launch and idk i find it sad that people have to play a worse version of the game just for legitimacy

used to be that online was kinda better at launch cause you wouldn't have loading screens when porting out of echoes (you'd have a loading screen offline)

but i think they've changed that to be the same for both modes now (in fact my online portals are bugged af and i keep losing out on echo rewards so 🤷‍♀️)

[rich stag]

I switched to offline at the season start because it was so smooth and online was a mess for me at launch

Constant lag and weird stuff

And I play solo 99% of the time anyway so offline just makes sense

[rich stag]

You're not really forced to, you might think you are but really you have nothing to prove to anyone. If you're consistent and don't leave any reason to believe you fake stuff then is there really an issue other than your own imagined problems?

[charred ridge]

x d

do you have any idea what i post on youtube

i was posting uber one shots in 1.2 with double t7 legendaries before people knew how to get them

i was getting comments asking if i was playing offline despite the screen literally showing it was online

so yeah i mean you're right i dont have anything to prove to anyone but

don't leave any reason to believe you fake stuff

ppl who are knowledgeable about the game might not think my footage is weird but that's not the case for less experienced and more impressionable people

so ye if i dont want my comment sections filled with "is this fake" or whatever i do have to play online lol

which is sad in itself but what's even sadder is that some people dont even post their footage anywhere and still feel pressured to play online

[vapid kindle]

i mean yea i agree and i do also agree it’s fairly easy to prove that the gear was legit or at the very least attainable but both of the vids linked for warlock were clearly faked gear

I also wish i didn’t have to play online for people to believe I killed uber with every mastery especially since my internet has sucked for the past month + but here we are

[charred ridge]

i mean i have no idea whose lock you're referring to

at the end of the day i was just saying that if you've killed uber properly then it's a proper kill, regardless of what other people think

if some dude spawned in some gear then clearly he doesn't fall in that category anyway

[vapid kindle]

there were two vids above of uber kills on warlock one with zombies and one with harvest, both with spawned gear which was what sparked the discussion about offline

[charred ridge]

i mean 2nd dude is french so that should be a red flag already

but more seriously whats wrong with these videos?

im not gonna read through the long ass description from the first guy but 2nd guy doesnt really claim anywhere that it's a legit online kill

and the planner is pretty basic anyway in terms of gear

it's just inconvenient that he doesnt go over the gear inside the video so you can't verify that it's the same gear in the planner

like if your argument is that bro is actually using 4x T7 gear and lying in his planner then sure but like

i dont really see a reason to assume that's the case

[vapid kindle]

the discussion was about uber viable builds for warlock and Kzb and I were just skeptical of the actual uber viability of these builds without an online kill or a kill with legit gear

[charred ridge]

i mean you can just check it for yourself

[vapid kindle]

you mean recreate that gear and go do uber?

[charred ridge]

ya

i mean i might be suspicious of a kill like that in 1.2

but nowadays that doesnt even really look that good anyway

[vapid kindle]

i’m mostly skeptical of the first one tbh

[charred ridge]

it'd be pretty fking sad to be dishonest about your gear and still take over 2 minutes to kill uber lol so i'd rather assume ppl aren't that pathetic

[vapid kindle]

and i’m not invested enough to spend 45 mins in melonloader i’m just skeptical that the build is uber viable

[vapid kindle]

yeah i guess i’m unfortunately more cynical than that but i’ve seen a ton of people go to great lengths to be dishonest about trivial stuff like this

[charred ridge]

i dont really understand how the harvest build functions tbh

if anything it just doesnt really help that his planners are completely scuffed

it's kinda cute actually

he's kinda just saying the harvest procs from chaos bolts are like 50% dps boost or w/e

compared to lich that would only bring like 20-30% more damage to the table

but ye i mean idk presumably that's a double t7 axe and it still takes 3+ minutes to kill uber it doesnt really ring alarm bells to me

aside from his planner being complete dog that is

[vapid kindle]

i get the general concept but even with 2t7 death's embrace i'm not sold that this build with this gear is doing uber in 3:15

[charred ridge]

we honestly dont even have a planner

for what's in the video

so

honestly can't really say "this gear" or "that gear"

bro's planners are just completely scuffed

actually nvm im the dumb idiot

i thought bro was self tormenting for whatever reason and using the wrong tree in the planner

but he's actually getting torment from killing the bone curse walls

that broke my brain

so yeah i guess that's his gear

i mean if anything that just makes me want to actually put real gear on that

and not whatever this is

[vapid kindle]

well his hp doesn't match the values for any of the planners he linked so i have no idea what the gear he used in the video is

[charred ridge]

why would it match

the planner doesn't have "actual" values

his max hp is somewhere between average and max

which is quite conform to reality

from what i can tell from a quick glance at patch notes harvest got a 2.5x ish dps boost on 1.3

[vapid kindle]

can you not import to show actual values for offline characters?

[charred ridge]

i mean i think you can

but regardless of what happened the planner doesnt have them so

[vapid kindle]

i'm just not sure why he wouldn't import and link the gear he killed uber with

[charred ridge]

mightve tweaked some shit like idols or whatever

to have something more accurate for a pseudo-guide

[vapid kindle]

he also appears to be capped crit without acid skin when he shouldn't be anywhere close to crit cap without it

[charred ridge]

even though his idols make me wanna puke or w/e

he's at like 92% crit chance

[vapid kindle]

without acid skin?

[charred ridge]

ye

it's pretty impossible to spot the white numbers past 90% crit so

https://youtu.be/pYqA2v1ChMs

im at like 94% or some shit in this video

gl spotting the whites

[vapid kindle]

oh right i missed the one base crit node

[upper wedge]

Personally I believe that for the context of showcasing a build, playing and spawning items in offline is fine as long as it is in the "you can actually get this realistically" realm. Basically cheating to save time grinding vs cheating for an advantage.
The grind isn't part of the showcase and challenge.

[vapid kindle]

ye using offline is fine especially for build guides and testing i'm just more inclined to be skeptical of an offline uber kill especially when they don't even have a planner linked with their equipped gear or show it in the vid

[charred ridge]

i don't think it's fine but it's what we have

[upper wedge]

Equipped gear should always be showed and the build should always be linked, obviously

[charred ridge]

you're kinda just ruining the game's lifespan for yourself

and for everyone else as well really

[vapid kindle]

i mean obviously if we had a way to test things like a PoB that would be preferrable but we don't

[upper wedge]

if the game's lifespan depends on spamming Troves for 16h a day for 1 proc - ruining it with Removal - repeat, then it's not worth it 🤷‍♀️

[charred ridge]

that's not even remotely close to the topic

[upper wedge]

But it is though. We were discussing showcasing a build with gear you obtained legit in online vs spawned in offline.

[charred ridge]

you can test most builds without double t7s and get an idea of how they'll perform with more gear

[vapid kindle]

but if we're talking about recording a build guide then it's nice to be able to record things like mapping gameplay and dummy/uber to include without having to farm that gear first

[charred ridge]

yes but you are killing your playtime

and you're also killing the playtime of other people who mightve wanted to run the build but then it's like

ah ye this dude's already tried that offline and it was dogshit

or ye dude's tried it offline it's completely busted

[upper wedge]

That's why I said this. Obviously there is a difference between showcasing a full set of 4 T7 Uniques vs let's say 2 T7 Uniques.

[charred ridge]

i mean you can dislike the gearing process and i do dislike it very much but it's part of the game and if you're just going through every build in 15 minutes with offline tools then

you'll be done with the game much faster than you normally would

[upper wedge]

If I showcase a build in a YT video and show items and planner, I personally don't find it relevant whether the 2 T7 Legendaries were spawned offline or farmed egregiously over weeks online.

[charred ridge]

it's really not about that

at all

[vapid kindle]

yes, but if I spend a week of my time to farm gear for a character and find out it's dogshit then that's not a particularly fun or rewarding use of my playtime anyways

[upper wedge]

^

[charred ridge]

i mean thats life rofl

bro like

i played idk how many characters in 1.0

i played harvest man that was terrible but it was fun at least for the whole 300 corruption that it could clear at turtle pace

[upper wedge]

I was refering to when you said you play online because you feel like you have to prove the gear is legit

[charred ridge]

i played this fking dogshit divine bolts stuff that also was terrible but that was still like 20 hours worth of playtime or whatever, the mapping was fun even tho boss dmg wasnt there at all whatsoever

and then in 1.3 i did end up using some offline tools to test stuff

do you wanna know what happened?

ye static orb is pretty good

ye acid flask (surprise surprise) is completely busted

ye flay (the melee version i mean) has insane damage but also is completely memes

how long did i actually play the game tho?

i ran 1 character for 1 week and then quit

[vapid kindle]

that may be the case for you but I don't think my usage of offline in specific contexts has reduced my playtime or desire to play at all personally

[charred ridge]

didnt have to play static orb even tho it's pretty fun cause i already knew how it was gonna turn out

[upper wedge]

Once I discovered modding in offline mode is when the game started becoming playable and enjoyable to me personally tbh

[charred ridge]

i mean that's your opinion and that's fine

i have a different one

[upper wedge]

that's fine too

[vapid kindle]

if i spent a week farming up gear for every trash idea i cooked up at 3am half asleep only to find out it was bad and unfun to play i personally probably would have actually quit the season a lot earlier

[upper wedge]

^

[charred ridge]

i think spawning items is a great way to take away fun and experimentation from the game

i also don't think it's unethical

[vapid kindle]

it's also like, in the current state offline is by far the easiest way to isolate variables to ensure something actually works

[charred ridge]

i don't have an issue with the people doing it i just think it's unfun and i'd prefer if it wasn't a thing

[upper wedge]

The only thing it takes away is farming Trove for 15h/day for several weeks, and I'd hardly call that fun

[charred ridge]

that's just really not true at all lol

if your build can't kill uber without double t7s then sorry to break it to you but it still won't be good with double t7s

[upper wedge]

I'm confused

[charred ridge]

and if you do actually have a build that can't kill uber with normal gear, but can somehow squeeze a kill with insane gear (hello heartseeker) then i feel like you should go through the garbage process of gearing your character to get a kill

cause that's the low tier build experience, isn't it?

[vapid kindle]

yea i agree on that front

[upper wedge]

Agree too

I stated the same if you scroll up

[charred ridge]

but what i'm saying is that you don't need to spawn in gear to test your build

you can already tell how it's gonna perform with basic gear that takes 1-2 hours to farm at most (once you already have your CoF ranks and stuff)

[upper wedge]

Of course you don't need to. But you can, and (depending on what you choose to spawn in) I don't think it takes away from the validity of the build.

[charred ridge]

i never said that

im just saying you dont have to go through troves to test builds

you have to go through troves to minmax your character

that's different

[upper wedge]

Repeating what Daimonos said earlier, if I had to manually farm for every build idea I come up with, I'd have quit the game already.

[jovial lotus]

Guys it's not this deep, just play how you want lmao

[vapid kindle]

true, but it's substantially easier to isolate variables for bugged nodes/items/etc. in offline, which is pertinent in the current state of the game, and it's also good if you want to record footage for a guide

[charred ridge]

i mean that's your take and that's fine but honestly it really wouldnt take that much longer to test things online like

[upper wedge]

True, but the topic was about "are builds that showcase in offline mode valid"

[charred ridge]

if you want to see how things perform at the double t7 stage of gearing then yeah you would hate yourself doing that for multiple builds online

single t7 or t7t5? it's like not even that much faster offline

[upper wedge]

the Blessings themselves will take a full day, if you're lucky

[charred ridge]

bro no way lmfao

[upper wedge]

100%

[jovial lotus]

Then changed to how fun and rewarding the method is

[charred ridge]

you don't need exactly 90 mana instead of 80

to just test your build

you need 90 to minmax your character that's differeeeeeeent

takes like 3 minutes to get your blessings man

[vapid kindle]

sure, but with how limited my free time is i value spending as little of that free time as possible being an unpaid community bug tester for EHG

[upper wedge]

8% Block or 50+% roll for Heorot, 20% roll for Uhkeiros, 300+ roll for Spirits of Fire

you'll be grinding for a day

[charred ridge]

bro no way man like 300+ for spirits of fire is like what 1 in 6?

and you roll with advantage man

takes like 2 minutes at most

5 minutes if for some reason you're not one shotting bosses at 200c

really the only blessing that takes time is 88+ mana lagon cause EHG hates our guts and we can't skip tentacle phase anymore

[upper wedge]

I didn't mean to convince you that this or that is really better, just wanted to make the point that it's really about perspective. Also I don't think you have anything to prove by showing you're playing online tbh, even in build showcases.

[charred ridge]

or other lagon blessings if you're using something else

[upper wedge]

I have seen your videos and there is a lot of cool stuff. If you had spawned that gear offline, it would make no difference whatsoever for that context to me.

[charred ridge]

yeah but you have a brain

a lot of people don't

[upper wedge]

that's their problem

[charred ridge]

and those people have access to free speech including to my comment section and my discord DMs

🤷‍♀️

also you guys say that you wouldnt be playing if you had to test every build online but

the thing is that you also say that from the perspective of players who live in a world where people have theorycrafted the hell out of the game using offline tools

the game knowledge that we have right now, and the expectations that we have, are not the same as the world where offline tools don't exist

[vapid kindle]

true

[charred ridge]

so yeah right now we are in fact saying that builds that don't kill uber are dogshit, i'm even saying if it takes over 3 minutes to kill uber then it's dog

[upper wedge]

I agree

[charred ridge]

but would we be saying that if we had to manually test all of our builds? we might not have been that far into the meta

[vapid kindle]

i don't test every single build i play in offline but for builds i'm more unsure about i want to know what the ceiling is before i commit to dumping resources into that character

[charred ridge]

yeah i get that it's metagaming i know how it feels

but like this aversion to commitment is also born specifically from offline mode and having an established meta in the first place

[vapid kindle]

and that doesn't mean it has to be able to kill uber in 3 minutes, for me my expectations of a build are far lower than that

[charred ridge]

ya well you can set your expectations wherever you want

but one thing we can say for sure is that uber has in fact shifted expectations across the board

most builds that i played pre 1.2 and that were considered good at the time would really not cut it nowadays

[upper wedge]

(speaking of Uber: can you still skip the rest of the fight by pushing enough damage for a kill while he's charging the full slam?)

[charred ridge]

depends what you what to skip exactly

[upper wedge]

all of it

[charred ridge]

if you want to skip the whole fight it has to be a one shot

damage immunities trigger when harbingers spawn at 65% and 36%

[upper wedge]

literally, in the "one hit" sense?

[charred ridge]

yes

if you do a trillion dps but it's multiple hits, the boss will stop taking damage at 65% as soon as the first harbinger spawns

then you'll have to kill it and then again at 36%

[upper wedge]

but he stops taking damage at 65% while charging the slam in phase 1, the harbinger spawns in phase 2

[charred ridge]

no he stops taking damage when a harbinger spawns, it has nothing to do with what the boss is doing

harbingers spawn when the boss reaches 65% and 36%, period

there's a bit of a spawn time so it might look like "phase 2" but in reality the harbinger is already there

you just can't see it

and if you push 65% as soon as the fight starts, vs pushing 65% at the end of the slam, you'll notice that the harbinger in fact spawns earlier, and can be hit earlier, thus shaving a few seconds off your kill time

[upper wedge]

For clarity, I'm talking about this move here

I can't bring him below 65%

[charred ridge]

yeah i know

you can't bring him below 65% because the harbinger is spawned when it hits 65%

[vapid kindle]

even for the non-harbinbger phases (only really relevant between phases 2-3) he does get 99% dr during phase transitions iirc

[charred ridge]

you just don't see it immediately because it takes time to spawn visually

[upper wedge]

but you're saying I could kill him with a one shot regardless?

[charred ridge]

yeah

[upper wedge]

got it

[charred ridge]

if it goes from 66% hp to 0% hp then it dies on the spot

harbingers might or might not spawn sometimes it bugs out

usually they don't spawn

[upper wedge]

what build even does that amount of damage in 1 hit?

[charred ridge]

and if you push it from 66% to like 34% in one hit then both harbingers will spawn at the same time

detonating arrow can still one shot

i dont think im aware of other builds that are currently capable of one shotting

time rot might be able to 2 shot

[upper wedge]

You got a planner for detonating arrow?

[charred ridge]

nope

[vapid kindle]

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe bear if you are able to ramp enough maelstroms but i don't think it's enough to kill in 1 hit of eq

[charred ridge]

gotta look for the kill on youtube

[upper wedge]

will do, ty

[charred ridge]

i think some dude did it offline in 1.2

[vapid kindle]

especially since you're not realistically gonna have fully stacked shark

[charred ridge]

and i dont think anything got nerfed or even touched so technically it should be easier now with primordial gear

[vapid kindle]

it has been done online

[charred ridge]

oh ok

couldnt remember

[upper wedge]

because all my kills even with high damage builds take forever thanks to invuln phases lol

[vapid kindle]

how much damage do you need to do to the dummy in a single instance to oneshot uber?

[charred ridge]

but it's pretty meme so it's kind of the type of stuff you farm on another character then you log on the marksman for 10 seconds and log off forever

it's like 1.5bil dummy dmg

closer to 2bil for a full on oneshot

most builds don't literally one shot they whittle down to 80% hp-ish and then one shot from there so they get away with like 1.5bil

i mean uber has about 250mil hp and mob DR is 87%

so 250/0.13 that's somewhere around 1.92bil damage on a dummy

[vapid kindle]

i think bear could likely do that if you got really lucky with shark stacks and ramped maelstrom enough

[charred ridge]

idk how practical detonating arrow is but you can take a look if you'd like