💀┃acolyte

[charred ridge]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[odd pasture]

I know, but 50% are good enough, i have Immortal vise now thats a big plus on survivability, kill 2 and 3 was with it, so without Armor shred, slower but more secure

[charred ridge]

no 50% isn't good enough

going from 50 to 60% endurance means you have 25% more hp

put endurance on your loot filter for 1x1 idols

[molten bramble]

Using core of the mountain and brew can cap endurance and help getting to 180 stats for red rings early on

[odd pasture]

Ah good to know, then i'll try to reach it

[charred ridge]

but also just farm a better belt

20% endurance belt will cap your endurance on its own

it should be easy to get at 1lp

[odd pasture]

Yes belt endurance is Bad rolled, i try to Farm it

[charred ridge]

1x1 idols are more just to fix your bad rolls if you have to settle for bad rolls on 2+ lp items

[molten bramble]

20% from belt and 15% from relic not sure where you get extra 5%?

[charred ridge]

ya i misspoke actually cause his planner already had 2 idols so it threw me off

i use 2 idol suffixes for an added 6%

[odd pasture]

Yes U have a few percent on Idols to get Higher endurance

I*

[charred ridge]

core of the mountain is pretty great if you can get a good 2lp

it's kind of like a valeroot except you get 55 mana instead of 80, obviously you also get value from other things (increased damage from int, endurance threshold, damage immunity)

[molten bramble]

55 mana?

from attune? and idols

[charred ridge]

10 from int 20 from attunement and 25 from not having to swap your idols to endurance

[molten bramble]

yeah

[charred ridge]

well you can include the 25 or not, if you're going for a max dps setup you wouldn't use endurance idols with valeroot anyway

[molten bramble]

also some HP too

[charred ridge]

yeah valeroot also has hp though

[molten bramble]

you loose like 50hp per idol

[charred ridge]

right

forgot about that so it's more hp than valeroot

or about the same

115 hp for core vs 80 for valeroot

i mean +10 attributes 2lp core is pretty great it's just hard/annoying to get so i find it hard to recommend

i love my movespeed so i have a personal preference for ox/kestrel

early on i guess you can do 1lp core with t7 hp% for maps

i havent tried mapping without mana but im sure it's fine

[plain granite]

Are there any uberroth viable Skelly builds

Or like a zoo build

Or is abom the only viable neceo pet build for it

[topaz knot]

Pet army builds are hard for uber because his aoe hits them all and it's harder to make 10 tanky guys than it is to make 1 really tanky guy

And in the last phase usually his aoes kill ur minions faster than you can resummon them, without heavy investment in minion health and leech

That's to say it's doable, but you'll need some really good gear. Like prob a few 3lp slams

But someone may of cooked up something that is better than im thinking

[orchid anchor]

Are there any "zoomy" lich builds? 🙂

[molten bramble]

Mana stack flay is very zoomy

you just teleport attack from pack to pack

and has decent aoe

[steady plank]

seems like this isnt working? (always count as low life)

[molten bramble]

True

[molten bramble]

the low life node in the passive tree and the low life node in reaper form do not work

might be a bug or intended not sure but report it

[earnest lichen]

It hasn't worked since launch

[charred ridge]

there's no way it's intended

[orchid anchor]

Watched a video to see if I liked how it looked. I had no idea acolytes could even come close to this kinda speed. Wow, wee! Thanks for the recommendation. ❤️

[molten bramble]

Fyi I would not recommend the maxroll guide they make some choices that make you have almost no defenses.

[versed fox]

it'll get you going for a good while though

Orobyss died to my DoTs after I died. It ate my gazes and only gave me half credit ;_;

[orchid anchor]

I very rarely, if ever, follow a guide in this game--it is not prohibitively complex. I just like to find inspiration. Anything that I should outright avoid/ignore? (Other than this guide in particular?)

Thank you so much!

[molten bramble]

Many people say you need gear to start the build but at 70 with the axe as long as you stack a much mana as you can 400+ you should be fine

[orchid anchor]

Awesome! That's great to hear. I love being able to start a build basically at monos.

Any leveling (pre-70) recommendations? Just for fun? I usually just play around with whatever seems fun/janky. I don't care about "hyper efficiency" most of the time.

[molten bramble]

I did it as a warlock then respec'd lich

if you have twink gear it shouldnt be too much of a problem as any spec

[orchid anchor]

Naw, this is my season starter. 🤞

And yeah, leveling as warlock sounds fun/the play. I loved warlock.

(I honestly forgot they introduced class respecs, ha.)

[brisk elk]

@charred ridge I think the way to use the attunement staff is probably for a runemaster build with fire as the second rune for an invocation

Like hydrahaedron for example

[vapid kindle]

it’s also very good on stormbear

[brisk elk]

RM gets no attunement from the tree and has no attunement scaling other than the invocation so it could benefit greatly

Stormbear would get more value from strength stacking with palarus' light no?

Since it already gets spell dmg per str

[vapid kindle]

if you go for dw you go for tempest maw because it gives you way more flat than palarus

and then mad alch for the more multi, but i prefer spirit xylem as it lets you scale nearly everything from just stacking attunement

[brisk elk]

How does it give more flat than palarus

It's 21 flat, you get like 200 strength with bear

[vapid kindle]

because of the tempest weapon node in gathering storm

[brisk elk]

2 per 3

I have a hard time believing that's worth more than 200 flat

[vapid kindle]

you’re not getting 200 strength if you wanna hit 1k mana for the maximum multiplier in excited bolts

[brisk elk]

I see

Fair enough

[charred ridge]

what does that do?

im not familiar with RM

[vapid kindle]

which is why xylem is so great because it makes getting 1k mana trivial while also giving you a ton of flat and hp

[vapid kindle]

fundamental criterion shenanigans

more dmg per attunement for invocations with (fire?) as 2nd rune

[brisk elk]

There's a chestplate that gives 3% more dmg per str, attunement or dex depending on element

A lot of the best invocations are fire second rune but attunement is normally pretty useless for mage

[vapid kindle]

hydra would probably be the best candidate as you also get the staff multi but you lose so much flat from not using the other staff so you’d have to find a way to make that up

[charred ridge]

oh alright

[versed fox]

My survivability is starting to drag (I hate the harbinger of smash), I think it's time to go mana flay

Can anyone link their builder

[valid zenith]

What lvling build would you suggest?

[obsidian anchor]

Does procced abilities inherit crit chance from the ability that proced it?
Like If i proc chaos bolts from flay does it get the crit chance from Go for the throat for example.

[pearl snow]

unless specifically states probably not

one is a melee one is spell

[obsidian anchor]

Yeah i was looking at a build and they talked about capped crit, but could not understand how chaos bolt would ever reach 100% crit so im just trying to see if there was something i had missed

[pearl snow]

depends on the build but there are plenty of ways to do it

[obsidian anchor]

Like maxed out planner has 64% spell crit chance so 🤷‍♂️

oh wait i think i found it

learned Weakness in harvest is adding another 100% global crit chance that i had not accounted for

Yeah with that crit rate increase everything makes sense :D

[charred ridge]

there's another 100% in reaper form if you missed it

[viscid geyser]

If it is intended that would be kinda dumb seeing how it says "always count at low life" also, I could see zero use in having that passive if it did not work that way because it just sucks

any idea if they know about the passive and if they plan to atleast let us know if it is working as intended or a bug?

[charred ridge]

rofl

you need to look deeper into it if you think it sucks

[viscid geyser]

I mean it does have some perks but the main perk is the low life

[charred ridge]

no

[old hull]

Main perk is endless leech tbh

[charred ridge]

the main perk is that it gives you more hp and it gives you overleech

[viscid geyser]

I mean I can stack enough leech without it. and the life you gain is also lost.

[charred ridge]

no

[viscid geyser]

the threshold is probably the best part

[charred ridge]

that's why i said you need to look deeper into it

you're looking at surface level but you don't understand what it actually gives you

when i say it gives you more hp i mean it gives you more hp

if you do the math you'll realize that even with half of your health pool you'll have more ehp than without

and it doesnt matter how much leech you stack if it keeps getting cut off all the time

[viscid geyser]

or you could have and extra 4k ward?

[charred ridge]

4k?

you can have an extra 15k ward

and it's worse

i'll give you an example i just have to find it rq

[viscid geyser]

so where does the more health come in? because I removed the talent and have less health as my max

[charred ridge]

you do the math

endurance threshold divided by 0.4 divided by 0.7

add the remaining hp above your endurance threshold

that's your ehp (before any DR and resistances armor etc)

do it with 5 points do it with 1 point

and compare

[old hull]

I mean, its effect on EHP compared to straight life is pretty small, except it caps your ward so you potentially lose out there

the recovery is the main benefit

[charred ridge]

ye it's not that big but it's still an increase

try to do this without corrupted form

[old hull]

only if you also invest in getting ET, like reliquary nest etc.

[charred ridge]

yeah fair point

i mean it depends on your setup like obviously ward based setups won't want to take it

but i've played around with different setups and i've come to the conclusion that life is just pretty op

even if you can get into the 15-20k ward territory it's actually still not as good as life

maybe for specific stuff on really really high corruption

[old hull]

Yeah, life has just way more recovery than ward can have, the raw 1-shot potential of ward doesn't help much when it takes you like 30 seconds to reach that ward level without taking damage lol

[charred ridge]

depends how you generate your ward but yeah

the thing is also just that

the 1-shot protection from ward is just in a weird niche spot

that isn't so useful for the current state of lich

because you're already unkillable at 1k corruption & uber with life

you're unkillable at even 2k

so where does ward come in? 3k corruption? and then you get one shot on 4k anyway

[viscid geyser]

I assume when I have the 5 points I should only count the max health I can actually get to and not what it says I should have as a max without the talent correct?

because with your math I still did not see a big difference

[charred ridge]

yes

it depends on your setup, on mine it gives me about 10% more ehp

which granted is not monumental but it's also far from negligible, and is very much not losing hp

although i can imagine that some setups will lose hp

[viscid geyser]

^

thats why I pointed it out that if it is not giving the no life tag it does not give enough. some builds might make it work but thats some builds and setup

now if the low life thing was working 100% than it is a fire talent because it helps with so much more

I did say zero use but I can now see some use

[charred ridge]

i mean it's one of the most broken defensive talents and offensive talents in the game cus we also didn't mention scornful but it does enable scornful

[viscid geyser]

issue is there are just safer ways to go about things when it comes to fat ward

[charred ridge]

and it enables the frenzy belt as well if that wasn't bugged

[viscid geyser]

well thats the thing

[charred ridge]

i'm not talking about the low life bug i'm talking about the belt

[viscid geyser]

if things worked it would be really good

[charred ridge]

the belt is bugged

no but it's still really good

[viscid geyser]

I know its bugged

[charred ridge]

even with all the bugs

[viscid geyser]

but we cant count any of the bugged stuff

we got to act like the bugged stuff are just not for it so we can better grade the passive

[charred ridge]

without corrupted form i can't get a 35% more damage multiplier for my lich builds

is 35% more damage for ~10 passive points a good investment? i think it is

[viscid geyser]

even with astral blood helping your life stay low?

[charred ridge]

huh

what are we talking about here

[viscid geyser]

the one chest that lowers your life and gives alot of ward

[charred ridge]

i know what astral blood is

what does that have to do with anything

[versed fox]

12% phys resist is way more than I thought it was 🚬

[charred ridge]

i'm not talking about corrupted form making you low life, as you said, that's bugged, even if it wasn't, it's not close to 35% more damage

i'm talking about scornful blood

corrupted form enables scornful blood by allowing your leech to never get cut off

which turns scornful blood into a 35% more damage multiplier

[viscid geyser]

yeah but not all lich builds use that sadly

[charred ridge]

i'm sorry but that's a stupid argument

just because you're not gonna use it on every single build in the game doesn't mean the node isn't absurdly stupidly strong

it's like saying idk, the bladedancer low life node (24% dr and 80% crit multi) is lackluster because not all builds are low life

yeah ok but if you go low life then it's pretty damn good no?

and i do personally think that i would fit scornful blood on every single uber killer lich build i'd play

unless the build has weak damage

but i don't play those builds

[pearl snow]

how do you factor scornful as 35% more

[charred ridge]

pulled it out of my ass cause apparently it's 33%

it's just your leech

you leech 33% of your damage just for existing and being a lich

if you specifically build around it

it's a 3x damage multiplier

melee builds can do that

[pearl snow]

Oh I see the leech investment with it ends up duplicating

[charred ridge]

not sure duplicating is the right word but yeah it turns your leech into damage

with the obvious drawback that you lose your sustain so it's not something that's generically good for all of the game's content, but it is pretty busted when it comes to killing uber

[pearl snow]

I assume its essentially have all your dmg duplicate if you have 289% of it

[charred ridge]

also 289% leech means you do 4x your damage not 3x im a dummy

[charred ridge]

i mean duplicate means if you do 1 damage your leech does 1 damage

here if you do 1 damage your leech does 2.89 damage, bit more than duplicate

[pearl snow]

true

[charred ridge]

and 33% is quite a bit less but still very significant

also on that topic, it turns out the leech node in flay is bugged and gives 50% leech per point instead of 0.5%, which makes scornful stupidly strong for melee flay

[obsidian anchor]

Yeah i had found that one and still ended up short of the 100% crit so was just missing the harvest one.

On another note since i saw it mentioned how does overleech work? Is leach kinda just limited in how much healing it can give you at once so you are just allowed to stack you "leeched health pool"

[charred ridge]

leech stops whenever your hp bar is full

"overleech" (i think the word is stupid but apparently that's what people call it) is just a term meaning your leech never gets cut off because your hp bar can never be full (thanks to corrupted form)

[vapid kindle]

i believe the term overleech comes from POE

[charred ridge]

and lich has so much leech, that with corrupted form's overleech, unless you literally get one shot you essentially cannot die if you've hit something in the past 3 seconds (similar to some paladin builds last season, but they've nerfed that)

[vapid kindle]

but yea leech is given over 3 seconds and if you hit full all your remaining leech is deleted, overleech is giga broken it makes you so much tankier especially against dots

there’s a reason so many people ran t1 lowlife mod on gloves prior to this patch

[charred ridge]

do you have any lore that explains the "over" part?

[vapid kindle]

i don’t play poe so no i just know that’s where it comes from

[old hull]

In the absolute best case scenario CF gives 1.5% more EHP, but that's not realistic since that would be without taking 1 point in CF. 5 points compared to 1 point in the best case gives you about 6% less EHP, on top of capping your ward

[obsidian anchor]

Ah i see now. Leech is also explained in the game guide, then i probably would have understood it a bit more if i read that first.
Leeched health is evenly healed over 3 sec so you never lose any of that healing since you never hit full.

[charred ridge]

rofl aite well good to know

[vapid kindle]

before this season if you had any effect that drained a portion of your current health over time you would never hit full health and it was super busted

now corrupted form is the only way to get that afaik and it’s still super busted

[obsidian anchor]

Makes sense

[charred ridge]

well

that's for my character

left is with 5 points, right is with 1 point

but i'll be completely honest i am taking immortal vise's 30% DR into account here

i'm counting this as endurance DR which you can argue is not always applicable

[obsidian anchor]

Ive had a decent time with lich so far but just started empowered monos on it so now its just levling and gearing to try it out with close to full potential.

[charred ridge]

so i wanna say that 5/5 corrupted form is 6% more hp in most relevant situations for my character, over 1/5

[old hull]

Ah yeah, I wouldn't typically count vise, but if you do, it's still only 5% more for 5/5

best case for corrupted form is having exactly enough threshold to cover all your health when you take 5 points, so like having 2 stacks of brewmaster on

[charred ridge]

6.3% i think is a pretty good node for 5 points even if we dont consider the overleech

(of course overleech is the main course)

[vapid kindle]

yeah there’s not many passives in the game providing that much survivability for that little investment

[old hull]

Yeah, the recovery is super good, EHP effect is a slight negative in general

[charred ridge]

i really wanna say ehp is a positive but of course your mileage may vary, depends on your build

[old hull]

or more than that if you account for the ward cap, but that's kinda pointless to consider

[charred ridge]

yeah the ward thing is unfortunate but also lich is so broken even without ward that it's just fair

[charred ridge]

endurance covering your whole hp bar is pretty realistic if your build can use ekkidrasil and reliquary nest (which of course currently, the meta builds do)

mine is covering about 90% of my hp bar and im not really investing aside from those two items

with core of the mountain you'd get your whole hp bar covered with no further investment

[charred ridge]

fingers crossed that they dont nerf it lol it's kinda comfy

i feel like EHG intended for overleech to be nerfed by accursed feast's 66% increased leech rate, as it makes your leech last only 1.8s instead of 3s, but you can just... not take it

[old hull]

It is yes, really just seed and the 6% ET body armor with reliquary nest gets you over 50% of your health as ET, but going over makes CF's EHP more negative

[charred ridge]

you're right, i didn't consider what happens if you "overcap" your threshold

[vapid kindle]

leech in general is just so broken compared to any other form of recovery especially with vessel being nerfed

[charred ridge]

not a very common scenario unless you spam your brewmaster potions

[old hull]

but there is something to be said for having your resting ET above 50% if you want to account for vise

since if your ET is below your max health and you always instantly recover to max health when you take damage, vise's DR will basically never kick in

[charred ridge]

i dont quite follow you there

While you have more than 10% of your maximum health as delayed damage, damage to health below your endurance threshold is reduced by 30%

to me this reads as vise's DR working the same way endurance does

as in, if you take 100 damage above your ET, and 100 damage below your ET, you will take 170 damage

(from a single damage instance)

[old hull]

Hm yeah, it is worded that way. idk why I was thinking it doesn't

[charred ridge]

feels like it's an arpg tradition to have leech be broken tbh

but EHG did maybe push it one step further 😂

[old hull]

Yeah, with all the hit damage delayed effects that we have now, you can effectively leverage all that recovery as EHP even lol

[obtuse quest]

That reminds me, does leech over 100% work for scornful? It probably does right? Doesn’t work with hollow because hollow ignores increased leech

[charred ridge]

i don't see why it wouldn't work. and not sure what hollow has to do with it

[old hull]

What do you mean by over 100%? Like 150% of damage leeched as health?

if so yeah, but still can't leech from more damage than the enemy has health

[charred ridge]

i think what you can say is that leech (sustain) essentially counters the delayed hit damage, and therefore you can simplify "x% delayed hit damage" as x% DR aka ehp

[old hull]

Yep exactly, and corrupted form preventing leech from ending at full makes it very reliable

[vapid kindle]

i love equipping one item that also gives me 2 separate more multipliers and being able to instantly recover my entire hp bar with one attack

[charred ridge]

which is mostly true but does have a few caveats if your leech stops or if you take absolutely obscene amounts of delayed damage

i've encountered that caveat twice: when pressing death seal on that rampant coast beast (if i facetanked some of the aoe damage after the beast died, my leech would stop after 3 seconds, leaving me with 1 second of unhealable DoT)

[old hull]

lol yeah, and tbf leech doesn't last 4s

[charred ridge]

and the second time was when facetanking uber's timeshattering slam, if you don't go all in on your leech investment you actually will not have enough leech to facetank the whole thing

surprisingly enough

[old hull]

and if you get leech rate like accursed feast, it's even shorter

[charred ridge]

which item is that 🤔

[charred ridge]

yeah that's why i don't take accursed feast unless i have something very specific in mind

(like scornful blood or facetanking silly things for fun)

having reduced leech rate somewhere in the game would be quite op

i think they should try to add that somehow, in a balanced way of course 🙂

[vapid kindle]

siphon of anguish

[charred ridge]

oh yeah

that item + shattered chains are so stupid

i'd love to see them nerfed

[vapid kindle]

doom has the same problem volatile reversal used to have

[charred ridge]

it's actually actively unfun to make a melee build and the first thing you do on the planner is lock in these 2 items

[vapid kindle]

you don’t even think about it at all

same with throne of ambition for fire/cold builds

[charred ridge]

frenzy belt is the only item that rivals with shattered chains, unfortunately it seems like i'm the only person in the world who's willing to read past the "increased damage taken" line, and even then, the item doesn't even work kekw

[obtuse quest]

ye this point.

[charred ridge]

i think throne of ambition is much different and has redeeming factors due to element conversions

[vapid kindle]

increased damage taken is fine if the upside were high enough but it’s such a massive downside when doom combo is just all upside with practically no investment

[charred ridge]

you can take a skill and think, "hmmm right, but what if i converted to cold because then i can take throne of ambition"

you don't take a skill and think "what if i made it melee"

actually i think there's maybe a skill or two that can be melee, that normally aren't?

[old hull]

Also the 20s ramp up on throne makes it a lot less auto-grab imo

[charred ridge]

detonating arrow?

anybody thinking "what if i made detonating arrow melee for doom multipliers"? 😂

[vapid kindle]

yeah but it also means in most cases that if fire or cold is an option it’s too often the best option purely because of the existence of throne

[vapid kindle]

yeah throne is kinda meh for mapping this is fair

[charred ridge]

i dont necessarily think so

[vapid kindle]

i mean it depends, obviously if you have idols you can’t give up that changes things

[charred ridge]

i mean i was looking at scornful blood flay and phys actually worked out best

partially because phys also inherently does i think 17% more damage from armor shred

[vapid kindle]

i think it’s less egregious than doom combo for sure but it’s still like are you ever going to play a fire or cold build and not use throne

[charred ridge]

i mean ye 99% of the time you use throne if you play cold or fire

but my point is that, throne can provoke thoughts to convert to those elements, because it exists

[vapid kindle]

and i think that fire and cold are broad enough that the decision being made for you is kinda lame

[vapid kindle]

fair

[charred ridge]

like maybe if throne didn't exist you wouldn't convert

[old hull]

and also slotting one 2x2 idol in is a lot less restrictive than two equipment slots

[charred ridge]

but there is no such decision making with melee & doom

[vapid kindle]

ye it’s not as bad as doom combo but it still feels like it removes an element of decision making from enough builds to where i find it irritating

although it adding back decision through conversions is a fair point

[old hull]

fair

[charred ridge]

honestly i don't think throne is super problematic BUT

if you do want to take this idea and make the game more interesting

i think it would be quite interesting if unique idols were turned "primordial" (as in, you can only equip 1 unique idol at a time, doesnt interact with regular primordial items)

and they made more of them

there's definitely a lot of untapped potential with unique idols in this game

[vapid kindle]

yeah the other problem is there’s like 6 unique idols and 3 of them are terrible

[charred ridge]

i mean primordial uniques did introduce a lot of decision making in buildmaking that wasn't present before

they should do that again with idols

cus yeah currently the unique idols are both scarce and extremely underwhelming

i'm sure you could come up with 10-20 idols in a patch and have it shake up the meta a bit

[vapid kindle]

the hybrid hp idols were worse than throne in this regard when they existed

[charred ridge]

you could even make idols with funny shapes like this

to make them ""primordial""

[charred ridge]

kinda funny you say that right before i post all my 1x1 double mana idols kekw

though ofc it's only mana stackers

[vapid kindle]

yeah but mana stacker is niche enough to be like acceptable

like once you get niche enough the options become more limited because there’s only so many pieces in this game

[charred ridge]

niche enough except it's 3 seasons in a row that i play mana stacking meta builds

maybe it's just me

😂

these didnt exist in 1.1 anyway

[vapid kindle]

this really is the 3rd season in a row of big mana stacker being the meta thing huh

[fleet reef]

they have a thing for uncapped nodes.

[charred ridge]

i can't wait to stack mana in 1.4

i mean to be fair like ES VK didn't really stack mana for damage

it really just stacked mana to be able to cast

[vapid kindle]

i love the attempts to put caps on nodes every season only to add more uncapped nodes

[charred ridge]

nah but fr they gotta be doing it on purpose at this point

and capping nodes is so lame i'm glad they're giving us 1 patch to have fun with the game

they should give us infinite patches really but i'll take 1 over 0

[vapid kindle]

i think there’s arguments both ways but at least some more consistency would be nice

if we’re gonna let things be uncapped then let everything be uncapped if we’re gonna put in caps stop adding 5 new uncapped more multipliers every season idk

[charred ridge]

i think ES VK is widely regarded as the most meta build in any LE season? considering 1.2 was one of the most active seasons after the 9 months wait, and most people played ES

but funnily enough, out of the 3 mana stackers, i think it's the build that actually dominated the least

[vapid kindle]

ES was op but it was clearly not even the most op thing on that mastery

[charred ridge]

i think nodes like harvest's more damage per ailment on target (or even mad ladle for that matter) need to be capped, as it would be extremely weird to go out of your way to pick up the most random ailments just to boost your dmg multiplier

however nodes that scale off actual stats i think should stay uncapped, and be balanced around that

so things like max mana, like rot grip (time rot triple scalar passive), like serpent's sting "more damage per poison & frostbite"

i think the whole point of those nodes is to give you a scaling direction for your build

[vapid kindle]

ye because they inherently have a form of cap based on how much of said stat you can obtain

[charred ridge]

if you cap them like they capped serpent sting then it's no longer a scaling direction, it's just a checkmark of "hey do i meet this condition?"

like having frailty on your build

[vapid kindle]

tbf that node was pretty ridiculous

[charred ridge]

yeah but why cap it

you can nerf it in other ways

i don't remember exactly which node does it but im 99% sure there's a node in the game with diminishing returns

like it says something like "10% more damage for your first x stacks of y, and then 1% more after that"

[vapid kindle]

yeah if things like this weren’t bound to being linear that could be really interesting

[charred ridge]

then it's like alright, my checkmark is getting x stacks, but i can still consider this as a way to keep scaling my build past the checkmark

like i wouldve just done that to serpent sting

how much dmg does it do now? has anybody checked?

im assuming it probably hits like a wet noodle

[vapid kindle]

it’s a tricky thing to nail down without bloating node tooltips too much i suppose

[charred ridge]

put it in the alt tooltip

[vapid kindle]

i’d be down for hovering a node and seeing a graph pop up but i would assume most would not lmfao

[charred ridge]

i mean i'm 99% sure they've done it somewhere in the game

i just cant remember where

[obtuse quest]

You mean serpent venom? the one stack poison ailment that gets buffed by poison and frostbite stacks?

[charred ridge]

yeah

i think that's the node im thinking of

not quite DR but you could essentially write a tooltip that way

[obtuse quest]

Still 600% more for 100 poison and 100 frostbite.

IIrc still decent for bossing.

[charred ridge]

"values halved past 300 stats, values halved again past 500 stats" etc

[charred ridge]

yeah im just wondering what it actually looks like now

[vapid kindle]

and crit and vitality nodes are still uncapped

[little wigeon]

They changed summon thorn totem idol which is pretty big blow to serpent venom

[charred ridge]

i also talked to the guy who was one shotting with it and it turns out there's a high chance that serpent venom was bugged the same way anomaly was bugged

[obtuse quest]

Not the potential one shot monster it was before,but still torment tier.

[charred ridge]

so they're really nerfing things based on bugs without fixing the bugs

like

alright brody

[vapid kindle]

ye idk like obv you compare it to last season and it’s pain but those are still 3 wild multipliers to have in 1 skill

there are like 20 skills in this game that would kill to have 1 of those multipliers

[charred ridge]

i mean both timerot & serpent venom wouldve been nerf worthy even without bugs but it's still quite rich to do that before fixing related bugs

[vapid kindle]

yup

[charred ridge]

now im curious if they'll fix marrow shards before 1.4

[vapid kindle]

there’s probably much more pressing bugs which is kinda wild

[charred ridge]

yeah

i mean 1.2 wasn't particularly bugged and anomaly (timerot) still didn't make it high enough prio to get fixed by the big 1.3

and 1.3 is such a bug fiesta that ye they really might not be looking at the one shots

[vapid kindle]

one shotting uber is fine compared to trying to find a ring to slam and my game freezing for 30 seconds every time i hover an item

[charred ridge]

fixing items/nodes that literally don't work and do nothing def has to be prio over fixing overperforming skills

[charred ridge]

yeah that is so gross

how many stash tabs you got

i think i started lagging around 60

idk if it's even related to how many stash tabs you have

but i dont think i was lagging before 60

wish i could refund my stash stabs 😂

[vapid kindle]

i started noticing it around like 25 but it definitely feels like it’s gotten worse with the more tabs i have

[charred ridge]

ya and how many do you have now

i just stopped buying tabs when it started appearing

and my PC isn't too bad so im only freezing for like 3-4 seconds

[vapid kindle]

i can’t afford another tab rn to check but probably around 70

[charred ridge]

the bug that upset me the most this season is actually my character getting stuck in space after portaling back from an echo

causing me to lose echo rewards & time

good thing echo rewards suck anyway i guess (but my imprint tho)

[obtuse quest]

Just know that that crap is NOT a new bug, it's been a reoccuring bug that comes and goes.

[charred ridge]

ye i know you've told me before

but it's the first time i experience it myself

[obtuse quest]

💀

I don't know what spagetti code that causes it to come back

[charred ridge]

and i figure many people are playing in 1.3 without encountering this bug

so it prob just happens randomly to a select group of people

for whatever reason

[vapid kindle]

the "echo has already started" or whatever thing?

[charred ridge]

na

you just get stuck here instead of the location with your echo reward & stash

but i do also get the echo already started from time to time

[vapid kindle]

hasn't happened to me (fingers crossed) but every like 30-50 echoes i go to start an echo and i get stuck in echo of a world and can't go anywhere until i portal to town

says "echo has already started" and ofc it counts as you having entered the echo previously when you leave and come back which kills your imprints and whatnot

[obtuse quest]

Echo already started is a minor bug compared to whatever the hell sends you to space, since it kills your rewards

[charred ridge]

ye thats annoying af

i also sometimes get "game files corrupted" into an infinite loading screen

and i have to verify my game files

and by sometimes i mean i get it like every day

[vapid kindle]

fantastic

[obtuse quest]

oof

[charred ridge]

which i thought was due to offline modding but then i did a fresh install and that didn't fix it so

[charred ridge]

honestly i get why they did this "echo already entered" thing

but it's pretty fking annoying

they couldve maybe came up with another solution

[vapid kindle]

yeah it has to exist because of edge cases but

boy does it suck

if you dc during conquered tower or whatever you might as well just move on to a different echo

[charred ridge]

ya but since most ppl place them in a straight line you're forced to complete it anyway to get to the next one

kekw

[vapid kindle]

yep

unless you rune rune prison complex which is still unchanged lmfao

[charred ridge]

i think that reset sucks anyway

and you do get penalized for it cus the exiled mages dont drop loot

which is actually the one reason i'd even consider farming that echo, for mad ladles lol

[vapid kindle]

it's still nuts for xp/favor, just favor matters the least it has since the introduction of item factions

[charred ridge]

ye favor is trash

that's the thing

im like forcing myself to pick up prophecies to not be favor capped

and getting nothing from them anyway

[vapid kindle]

it's still my go to for powereleveling a character

[vapid kindle]

favor went from being the only thing that mattered to "i cba to spend it"

[charred ridge]

i mean yeah you'll do prophecies to get an alt started but like

you're not gonna do the best favor/hr strat just so you can afford to gear your alt

you're gonna run troves, randomly get 500k favor, spend it on uniques and slam them with your 77 exalts you got from troving

and you're gonna have way more uniques than exalts

[vapid kindle]

you need so many less uniques with guaranteed slams too

[charred ridge]

yeee and that also means you need an awful lot less single t7 exalts

dont have to stockpile a whole bunch of "+4 to profane veil" relics cause you get 1 and it's guaranteed

so really the only limited resource is multi-exalts

[vapid kindle]

crazy how double t7s went from basically not existing to arguably being the standard past a point

[charred ridge]

it's in a weird place rn

they're standard for sweats and non-existent for casuals

[vapid kindle]

t8+t7 is still mald inducing to try and get though lmao

for now

[charred ridge]

yeah i can imagine, i havent had to deal with that so far

i mean i dont think it's bad like

it's like slamming an item except you have a 50% success rate which is better than a real slam

the issue is forging potential to craft the rest of the item

[vapid kindle]

finally getting a double t7 with great seal and 4 perfect affixes on the right base only for the t8 to hit the wrong one

[charred ridge]

and i guess you can't divine your t8

yeah but on paper it's still better than a slam idk

i'd seal my t8 before crafting the rest of the item so i'd be pretty unlikely to get the dream item and then brick it

[vapid kindle]

plus you wanna glyph of order before you use the rune which eats half your fp

[charred ridge]

wdym

i thought sealing rerolls your affix anyway

oh

order prevents?

[vapid kindle]

well yeah but you don't want a t8 with a trash roll

[charred ridge]

yeah but can u actually prevent that trash roll with an order

[vapid kindle]

ye it will keep it relative to its percentage at t7

[charred ridge]

that's good tech

[vapid kindle]

perfect roll t7 will become perfect roll t8 with rune

[charred ridge]

EHG kinda made it sound like you wouldnt be able to avoid the reroll

when they presented the rune pre-patch i mean

[vapid kindle]

every time i've done it though it's chunked for like 20 fp or something stupid though

[charred ridge]

it's not really the glyph of order tho it's the same as your glyph of hope not proc'ing

so 75% of the time it's the same as a glyph of hope i guess

the issue is prob like getting a good roll in the first place cus it means you're often gonna lose fp from spamming refinements

[vapid kindle]

yep that too

and it's amplified by the fact that fp costs go up per tier

[charred ridge]

i dont think that plays any role

runes have their own fp cost

but yeah the average cost for rune of evolution is high

[vapid kindle]

being able to have a primordal unique that's better is just so much less painless than all of that lmao

roll ranges on some primordials are pretty wild though

[charred ridge]

nah honestly i think uniques have got to be worse

for CoF anyway

they are not easy to target farm and get LP and also good rolls on them

i mean i slammed a 2lp relic and im still using a 1lp lmao

[vapid kindle]

it really depends on the unique and it gets far worse once you get past 1lp

[charred ridge]

legit rather lose a whole t7 affix than not have perfect rolls

yeah 1lps are fine

but i mean if you're fine with a 1lp you're also fine with a mid t8

[vapid kindle]

some uniques have really small or inconsequential roll ranges though

[charred ridge]

ye depends on your primordial

[vapid kindle]

most primordial uniques specifically have some absurdly wide roll ranges that are absolutely critical to get high rolled

like a min rolled titan heart is still quite useable where if you get a min rolled spirit xylem you might as well vendor it lmfao

[charred ridge]

yeah but xylem i think is one of the easier things to roll

or at least not one of the hardest

you take a 1 in 3 for the hp/mp per attune, (a 1 in 2 for +levels if you care about that which is not all builds) and a like 1 in 2 for the more damage to be above 15%

[vapid kindle]

it depends on how many stats you need from it

[charred ridge]

so it's pretty much like a 1 in 6 and the rest doesnt have to be perfect

[vapid kindle]

stormbear really cares about the more damage and less damage taken

because you can realistically use both

and obviously if you don't hit 4 on the health/mana and the levels it's dead item

[charred ridge]

eh

im not the type of player who's gonna cry over bottom rolling the conditional less dmg taken

[vapid kindle]

it only really matters for that build just because you're using both all the time

truesight glass and mask of indifference are much better examples of painful roll ranges

[charred ridge]

i dont really get it

are you at exactly 50% mana the whole time

or how are you using both at the same time

or do you mean you're constantly swapping between both

[vapid kindle]

no but you dump your mana super fast and then insta refill it

[charred ridge]

ya so

the less damage taken is very much conditional

[vapid kindle]

and you're full mana during your burst window and low mana when you're outside of your best dr windows

[charred ridge]

but like just in general i dont really care about DR lines

when i look at a SW the last thing i look at is the DR

of course i'll take free DR but it's the last thing i look at

[vapid kindle]

well that's true with shattered worlds

[charred ridge]

it's true with xylem too my opinion

[vapid kindle]

for most builds i would agree

[charred ridge]

but i'm not known for building defensive characters so

different perspective

[vapid kindle]

regardless mask of indifference or truesight glass are probably better examples

tyrant's skull has the most laughably easy roll range of all time

[charred ridge]

im really biased in what rolls i care about in ways that dont really make sense

like i will literally tell you that reliquary nest is hard to roll because i want high endurance & endurance threshold (on top of obviously idol effect), which are defensive stats

and i'll also tell you that i don't care about truesight glass' crit avoid line cause i don't care about crit avoid

[vapid kindle]

i build crit mitigation if it's not overly inconvenient

[charred ridge]

yeah i mean i'll spend 1 point on paladin's blind chance np

[vapid kindle]

chances are if you're a build using mask of indifference you probably care about the crit mitigation though

[charred ridge]

i'll spend 6 (8?) points in runemaster's int & reduced crit np

[vapid kindle]

or just take the helmet that gives you 550 armor and solves it for free lmfaooooooo

[charred ridge]

but like a ton of people will literally look at truesight glass and say if it's not 100% crit avoid it's 0% crit avoid

[vapid kindle]

am i going to give up a suffix slot to get another 15% less from crits? helllllllll no

[charred ridge]

bro im playing softcore

im good with 99%

and softcore players will tell you that

it's like

they mustve heard a hardcore player talk about crit avoid and are now preaching it like undeniable truth

[vapid kindle]

i also probably care about crit mitigation a lot less than most players with my playtime but most players that play a lot do seem to care about being at 100% at all times

[charred ridge]

i mean you should get more than 70%

you should get more than 80% and you should also get more than 90%

[vapid kindle]

if it's reduced bonus, 1 t7 on belt is fine

[charred ridge]

but saying 99% = 0% is just so extreme

[vapid kindle]

for softcore

[charred ridge]

also depends on your build but like

im literally running 0% crit avoid this season

and my character is unkillable

you might say it's a balance issue but ya

[vapid kindle]

ye i didnt bother with lich because it's too much of a hassle to get it without giving up too much

[charred ridge]

you also just dont need it

you have enough ehp that crits dont kill you

unless you run 3k+ corr

[vapid kindle]

ye most of the time you will get more survivability by just building more defense in other areas

that's why i say i'll build it if it's convenient

[charred ridge]

ye

classes are just built diff when it comes to that

[vapid kindle]

ye i've been screaming that some classes need an actual way to get it that doesn't suck while others just get it for free

[charred ridge]

well

it's fine that classes are built diff

once again, i think crit avoid is omega overrated anyway

defense in general i think is super overrated (hardcore softcore brain speaking here) so 99% of the playerbase prob looks at me like an idiot

aside from primalist which i know nothing about, acolyte is the only class that struggles with crit avoid but clearly lich doesnt care nowadays

so it's fine

[reef goblet]

I mean any class can get 100% crit avoidance by farming fall of the outcast boss.

[obtuse quest]

the same boss that drops the all res blessing?

[charred ridge]

no he means woven flesh

crit avoid comes with opportunity cost

[obtuse quest]

Oh, lmao

The unique

Even worse

[charred ridge]

we're not saying it's hard to get crit avoid we're saying it's not worth it

[reef goblet]

Well, it depends, I just like deathless playstyle and facetanking everything if possible

[charred ridge]

ye we're talking softcore

hardcore you absolutely go for crit avoid at least early on

[obtuse quest]

Softcore you got time to just run the blessing instead, or just slowly build for reduced crit damage taken, since it comes with armour.

[charred ridge]

reduced crit is also just better than avoid even without the armor

[reef goblet]

reduced is more linear while avoidance is 100% or nothing.

I also prefer reduced crit but I would like to have full crit mitigation as early as possible.

[obtuse quest]

The unique armor is good as a bandaid, but almost never as the final target.

[abstract summit]

Just get t2 blind on your off hands

[carmine harbor]

@charred ridge thank you for you advice yesterday finally got uber down now

[hollow flint]

Thats mostly because there are builds that do way too much damage imo. Whenever you can kill things before they can act, its the best defense. Nothing beats 100% less damage dealt by enemies through death

[carmine harbor]

is it only worth changing to immortal vise if its 2LP so you can get shred and mana? or is it fine to swap as soon as you have a 1LP

[charred ridge]

yeah and i don't think that will ever change

[charred ridge]

1lp is fine

put shred somewhere else

[hollow flint]

yeah, players eventually find the OP build in any complex arpg, devs just fight a very steep uphill battle here

[charred ridge]

ye but if you need your dmg back for bosses either keep your old gloves or slam a 2lp dagger/amulet with shred

[charred ridge]

they make the game for casuals and they still need casual players to be able to feel strong

that means any dedicated player will be able to just blast as a result

[hollow flint]

yep, and in the end its not like we dont enjoy it to break the game and make it a cakewalk

sometimes I just wish that the op builds wouldnt be such low hanging fruits

[median pebble]

I think you just said the most important thing, as long as getting op is fun and rewarding all is good

[carmine harbor]

thanks alot for the help btw noobzor i did get my uberoth kill today

[steady plank]

Infernal shade and double ghost maker is fun to explode the map with. Struggling with bosses a bit though

[charred ridge]

yeah i saw, grats

tanky build or zhp?

[carmine harbor]

tanky build using the dps passive setup we were talking about yesterday

[lost gale]

have you tried wraithlord helmet? helps keep max wraiths out for a huge damage boost

[steady plank]

Sure have!

[half kelp]

lmao i just bricked my goddamn nihilis

went to the reroll weaver echo without knowing wtf it does

im so mad 😄

time to farm more abe

huge setback honestly

how will i recover fro this

[lilac bear]

In some way this must be working, since the Exanguinous effect (bleed immunity) clearly does work even at 50% health (which is not low life). Maybe you are mistaking this for the buff that gives you increased damage the lower your health is?

at 50% health you are getting 50% damage bonus from the Lich passive, you could get another 40-something % damage if you are genuinely at low health.

[reef goblet]

I thought this was based on your missing health value instead of percentage....

[quaint turret]

hello, im lv75 and havent found luck getting Army of Skin boots for Harvest Flay build.. is it better to just continue with leveling build or it should be ok to change the build now?

[reef goblet]

Use rune of ascendancy.

[quaint turret]

yeah ive burned 15 or so trying to get it. i know its no alot but trying. im also buying the primordial sack of uniques

[reef goblet]

Carry on, it's not a rare unique. I've got like 6 pairs of Army of Skin and I'm ssf

[obtuse quest]

Nope, it's %, so 99% inc generic damage at 1% hp

[obtuse quest]

Dance With Death is the node to test though, and iirc it doesn't work with Corruption's always low life effect.

[half kelp]

bro i think this is the end of the season for me

lost too much mental

[lilac bear]

Yeah, the test should be to remove points in Corruption (and then get to ~50% health) to see if damage changes.

Flay proccing Chaos Bolts when you start to go over 1k mana is hella fun.

[versed fox]

Pretend you never got it

Or swap to snooze and buy it

[lilac bear]

Which reroll weaver?

[half relic]

Just leveled to 50, was planning on going Abom but now thinking I’m not a fan. Not sure of any other minion build that I’ve seen that’s strong.

[lilac bear]

I've been away so I can't say which minon builds have been gutted because of snapshot changes

Speaking of snapshotting, what happens if you take "Age of Undeath" node after you have summoned your Abomination? Does it stop eating skeletons for health and instead give them 10% attack speed bonus?

[obtuse quest]

Any skill node changes kills abom.

[half kelp]

the echo that allows you to reroll legendaries

[lilac bear]

I havn't tried that yet. I thought it just reroled the ranges of the affixes, right?

Or does it affect legendary affixes and LP values too?

[half kelp]

it rerolls the values

[lilac bear]

Anyone rolling with a Cruelty build this season? Now that you can get 100% respawn of skeletons there's probably an autobomber build in there somewhere?

[half kelp]

heres my mid gear abby kill, no marrows, primal dagger

[lilac bear]

mmm Beer

[little wigeon]

holy its definitely way slower without marrow and you even have 2k mana... its pretty much a 1 tap against normal

i think i kill uber at the same speed as your normal with marrow lol

[half kelp]

ill try marrows for reference

lmao

its actually slower

[little wigeon]

hard to believe it can be any slower than what you posted at 2k mana

[half kelp]

its ~15sec slower

uploading

[little wigeon]

yea idk doing something wrong, theres no way that aint a 1 tap

[half kelp]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AKk92Y3A heres the build

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 98

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.2

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (81) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 3,070, Regen: 19.72/s
▸ Mana: 1,513.1, Regen: 14.32/s
▸ Ward Retention: 237%, Regen: 25/s
▸ Attributes: 14 Str / 29 Dex / 86 Int / 1 Att / 10 Vit
▸ Resistances: 72% / 77% / 71% / 92% / 74% / 152% / 61%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 22%, Threshold: 1,155
▸ Dodge Chance: 11% (338)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 30% (1,470)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 106%

Used skills:

Chaos Bolts / Reaper Form / Marrow Shards / Harvest / Flay

[half kelp]

heres the kill

[half kelp]

you tell me 😄

[little wigeon]

well first you didnt transform right away and you spend alot of time on the first harbringer fight. just stand still and facetank

[half kelp]

i mean, its still far from onetap

[little wigeon]

on abby you sat in the frailty laser...

so 11 stacks of less dmg

just small things that add time but still looks kinda slow overall despite that

bruh you aint no where near crit cap

also 0 armor shred

[half kelp]

there is shread from marrow

[little wigeon]

well thats another issue, if you are going into shred on marrow, you are skipping out on dmg multis

also it gave you 9 shred stacks which is nothing

5-6 when actually moving around

lastly you are missing out on half the chaos bolts lol you are 1/2 in chaos rip on flay tree....

thats the biggest problem

[half kelp]

are u telling me you can cast more per single flay and its not capped at 100% lol

[little wigeon]

huh? it goes from .5% to 1% per mana

so instead of shooting 20 chaos bolts, you are shooting 10

[obtuse quest]

The alt text literally tell you it's not capped

[half kelp]

reading hard, cheers

[obtuse quest]

[little wigeon]

💀

[obtuse quest]

It's the whole basis of mana flay

This node is Stupid stupid

[little wigeon]

im like theres no way your normal abby is that slow

just swap out the primordial dagger for traitors tongue in offhand. boom 13% crit chance, solves that. then add the point in the flay tree

[half kelp]

cheers

happened to have 1lp tongue in stash

gonna slam then try another abe for reference

[little wigeon]

once you fix your void res, you can swap that blessing to crit chance as well

[coral delta]

for Flay Mana Lich, if I have access to 1 LP Immortal Vise and Shattered World, is it worth using over Grasp of Blood mage and Stormcarved Testament?

[little wigeon]

just survivabilty wise yes. prob a lil less mana but you get more atk spd

depends on attribute roll of shattered

[coral delta]

oooh nice, thanks!

[little wigeon]

i assume you are using the T8 rune dagger?

you could also keep blood mage, run shattered worlds* and replace the rings

[coral delta]

sadly... can't find one yet, stuck with a t8 Chitin dagger instead

[coral delta]

two +16 Int Red Ring should be good right?

[little wigeon]

for surviablity yea that would be huge

julra stardials for bossing is amazing

[coral delta]

surely I have a 2lp of that lying around somewhere from all the Julras i've killed

and can I substitute Woven Flesh for Null Portent instead for more health? or the 100% crit avoid is just too valuable

[half kelp]

theres still a problem tho with the build @little wigeon without death seal im not actually low health

[little wigeon]

depends who you ask haha i personally run a belt with T7 reduced crits and im fine. chest im just running valeroot, i dont need the DR from null portent but could if i wanted

core of the mt is another choice

and even pale ox haha for movement spd lovers

[little wigeon]

why do you need to be low hp?

[half kelp]

dance with death?

[little wigeon]

ah i removed that since it wasnt working with corrupted form

[coral delta]

ooooh niceee, i'll go experiment around and see what feels good then, thanks again for the advice!

[half kelp]

hmm

ill just go necrotic pene then

[little wigeon]

yea that should already be maxed... lol

pen is a multiplier

[half kelp]

im aware of the underlying math lo

l

[little wigeon]

it also gives physical pen for marrow if running that

[half kelp]

okok way faster

[little wigeon]

💀

[half kelp]

still not one tap tho

get him to 60% before slam

so two wards popped

[little wigeon]

yea just need some more gear optimization. i tried a quick normal for kicks. yea not a 1 tap but he didnt do anything either lol

[half kelp]

big

🙁

[little wigeon]

we finally hit our lp3

[half kelp]

around 40 sec faster

approaching uber territory

need a couple good upgrades

well would you look at that

freed up a blessing slot

[half kelp]

49 seconds

41 sec

[tall mural]

So, just for giggles I decided to see what would happen if you equipped Maelins hubris while using bleed AoD, and it converts the stacks that are applied to YOU but not to enemies

[half kelp]

hmmmmm

35 sec after juggling skill passives

[tall mural]

An interesting way of avoiding the self damage honestly, too bad it borks your other skills

[old hull]

Yeah, ailment chance per second like on AoD doesn't support conversions for some reason

[tall mural]

It also doesnt effect the poison bolts either, they stay whatever they were

[old hull]

lol weird, maybe since the bolts don't "really" hit

[tall mural]

they do, because they are proccing my damned on hit chance

[old hull]

But they don't proc on hit effects, they just apply ailments

Unless they got changed in S3 to hit, but I don't think they did

[coarse hinge]

Any trick to keep reaper form up if I play full low life, I keep dropping out since I don't leech.

[old hull]

Like actual exsanguinous and whatnot? You just don't use reaper form in that kind of setup

[coarse hinge]

yes, ok so I just get another skill instead 🙂

[tall mural]

reaper really needs a node line dedicated to LL ward

lemme burn ward and life dangerously

[coarse hinge]

hmm if I could get some low leech off a dot, it could sustain reaper...

[tall mural]

there is a dot node in lich that leeches dots, so long as you dont have the one node that converts leech

[coarse hinge]

I use peak to stop leech from crits

[tall mural]

dots dont crit

[coarse hinge]

yea, so it could work

[tall mural]

this one

[little wigeon]

are you doing low life to ward stuff? its just better to not use reaper. the goal is to be as close to 1hp to maximize the ward and that will knock you out and if you leech you wont be at 1hp. up to you tho

[coarse hinge]

yes, have to balance that health at close to 1, but not there to keep reaper. Reaper is just a great skill and sad to loose it

[little wigeon]

i mean reaper is plenty defensive with endurance, hp, and armor

[coarse hinge]

I need my health to be lower than my minions, thats why low life

and the passive sustain is nice

[little wigeon]

ah so more than just LL to ward, yea cant help ya there lol

[tall mural]

I mean, you have that one forced half life node

[little wigeon]

but it will limit his total ward if he cares about that

[tall mural]

Honestly it shouldnt be that hard to get minion life higher than yours on LL.

[old hull]

Yeah, with corrupted form it should be fairly easy

and you can keep reaper form then

[coarse hinge]

Corpse parasites have 600-700 health

[half kelp]

@little wigeon how do you get increased mana on helmet

%

[little wigeon]

sentinel/rogue helmet

[half kelp]

ohhh

has it always been possible to slam those to any leg wtf

[little wigeon]

yea they are labeled as mana affixes, not class affixes

so they dont lock out the item, altho they only appear on rogue/sentinel

[half kelp]

what the heck

im sure it wasnt possible before

in any case, thanks

[little wigeon]

yup just add to your filter to show all T7 chest/helm with class restriction for sentinel/rogue. will get lucky eventually or havoc/red

[half kelp]

yeah uber is goin down holy

ill be at 1800 without tithe stacks if i land t7 20% on helm

[little wigeon]

holyyy

[half kelp]

got it :3

just need runes of havoc

LESGOO

[earnest lichen]

#🔱┃sentinel item but gz

Oh

You're gonna slam it

[half kelp]

its already slammed

:3

[earnest lichen]

Huge

[half kelp]

1674 unbuffed mana

we are going to kill uber tomorrow

[earnest lichen]

gl

Mana stacking flay?

[half kelp]

ya

[earnest lichen]

How's the damage feeling

[half kelp]

insane

[earnest lichen]

Might have to give flay a proper go at some point

[half kelp]

can now dmg through abe slam

[visual wigeon]

how does flay lich get her mana back?

[half kelp]

executioners tithe + harvest

[visual wigeon]

ah was looking through skill trees instead of the item, thanks

[half kelp]

went from 2 minutes to 22 seconds aby ttk today lmao

scuffed the frailty though so missed the slam breakpoint on this pull

22 seconds :3

[earnest lichen]

Do you want to see my bear earthquake 1 shot abby normal

[half kelp]

no

:3

[earnest lichen]

[little wigeon]

nice nice good prog

[orchid heron]

just had attempts #7 and #8 for a 2LP slam Traitor's Tongue T7 Melee Cold / T5 Attack Speed, and failed

[steady plank]

Naw my idols and stuff that give bonuses at low life aren't working

Was what I was using to test it anyway

Ie ild unequip them at full health with the always low life node and the UI didn't update

[broken star]

Anyone has a link to a leveling guide for Flay Mana Lich?

[pearl snow]

Its best to level as Warlock or Necro and then swap to Flay once you get a small amount of gear.
Or if you want to start as lich just gp for Chaos Bolts or Rip Blood and stack bleeds

[broken star]

Ah I see

I do have about 50% of the endgame gear in my storage. So to make things simple I'll take the warlock route and then pivot once I get to monoliths

[carmine harbor]

how are you guys getting your exaltes for slams? been trying to get a T77 dagger for ages and i cant get it. got the dagger mastery and done over 70 nem towers

[zinc flower]

Hmm haven't been on in a few days but it seems like my abom is suddenly taking huge amounts of damage compared to last time I played. is there something known to do that?

[charred ridge]

can try prophecies if you don't have a more priority use for favor

[carmine harbor]

might give them a go i got most my idols as the mana& mana health idols now.

[charred ridge]

do you have other 77s?

cause i mean you dont have to make finding a dagger a priority if you can farm other stuff in the meantime

[carmine harbor]

yeah i got alot of t77's and 766's even a 777 now just not a dagger

[charred ridge]

if you havent slammed your other slots just start with that

there's a decent chance you'll find a dagger by the time you're done with your other slots

[carmine harbor]

might do a bunch of ascendance runes to try to get 2 lp items in the other slots

[charred ridge]

idk which items you're trying for but unique items are generally farmed from prophecies

[carmine harbor]

ah sweet might target the axe then try get a 2lp through proph

[carmine harbor]

do you notice a big difference in loot from 1000c to 2000c?

[charred ridge]

nope

[carmine harbor]

ok sweet so only point is if you want to push yourself

[pearl snow]

If I remember correctly 500c is the first softcap for drops then around 800-1000c is essentially max besides increasingly insignificant drop boosts

[fleet reef]

first softcap is at 300, then 1000. the actual sweet spot is about 558 or something, but since 1000 is pretty much ez for the stier builds, that's usually the goal

[carmine harbor]

atm my flay one hits most stuff at 1000-1200c so thats where ive been farming

[molten bluff]

is ghostflame moving viable as a skill? tired of my EQ bm

probably on lich

[obtuse quest]

Ask the two ghostflame shills

(They say it works well)

[noble flame]

If you wanna Ghostflame then I recommend a chest piece with the Mana gained on harvest affix. Combined with Bluefeather you can get some good use and then swing harvest periodically to refill.

Bluefeather isn't required, just means fewer swings of harvest needed

[obtuse quest]

Nah, the real ghostflame builds just stay in ghostflame forever with mana efficiency

No stopping required.

[tight hawk]

Does anyone have woven faction level suggestions?

[obtuse quest]

Get every imprint and every echo spawn node, everything else is up to preference.

[tight hawk]

I have the imprints, what do you mean when you say echo spawn nodes?

[obtuse quest]

These two

[tight hawk]

Ah yes ok, I do have those

Is there a preferred strategy to leveling the faction, or just run every cemetary that spawns and every woven tomb I come across in my echos?

[obtuse quest]

No info for that tbh

[tight hawk]

No problem, thanks for the response!

[molten bluff]

nice, so it can be done without mana recovery stuff...Lich or Warlock?

[obtuse quest]

Iirc warlock. Though I don't know if they made any new cooks

Requires you to farm ghostflame mana efficiency idols though

[molten bluff]

i have some, also idols are pretty cheap on COF

[grizzled frost]

Hey gang so I'm doing my first ever necro - swapped my level 95 lich over as I had a lot of the gear. When I summon him I have wright, skele mage, bone golem and archer on hot bar then i just hold down abom key or do i just click it? I feel like hes doing good dmg tested on normal abby its about 20 seconds but not sure what i do once he's out - i put on aura of decay but then do i spam any skills round him? bone curse? do i use that infernal shade at all?

[obtuse quest]

Abom is a channeled skill, so hold. The rest cannot be answered without knowing the build.

[steady plank]

You pretty much do nothing and just focus on surviving if you really want to get into snap shotting you can unlearn skeletons etc after summoning and then respec into other shit but it makes any death annoying

[grizzled frost]

ahh ok all good, nah im too lazy to snap shot just wanted to make sure its doing its biggest hits so hope thats all good, i just asked about the shade as i remember seeing it somewhere on someone elses video but ive seen so many vids its a blur lol

[austere lichen]

damn the flame whip sound effects immediately turned me off on using spine of malatros lmao

it's very rough

[little wigeon]

Playing with sound 💀

[austere lichen]

ikr

[lapis notch]

Hey, so I'm using the Maxroll leveling build, but apparently warlock isn't very good for later game content, which build would you all recommend I try to transition to around level 70? Hoping to avoid minions as I dislike the playstyle.

[pearl snow]

Warlock has good builds endgame.
Flame Whip, Witchfire, I’m sure Torment is still fine.
Lich is bonkers with the rework once you get gear though
Mana Flay CB, I think mana Flay Harvest too

[dusty onyx]

Sorry Jalith Bear. I didn't respect you enough.

[half kelp]

ever since i imprinted nihilis, ive gotten 0 😄

[brisk elk]

Boss drops don't work with imprints

[drowsy ocean]

since there's lack of soul reave posts, I'm not sure how good it is and does it work with other abilities?

for abom

[obtuse quest]

It replaces the basic attack, and that's about it from what I can tell.

[half kelp]

hell yeah season saved

[half kelp]

OH HELL YEAH

unbuffed :3

after optimizing idols :3

:333

time to reference kill abe

got the slam breakpoints down he does nothing, scuffed pull start to frailty tho

29 sec

26

23

[half kelp]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/B5qXE1ZB :3

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 99

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.2

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (82) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 2,626, Regen: 19.86/s
▸ Mana: 1,912.55, Regen: 26.04/s
▸ Ward Retention: 189%, Regen: 25/s
▸ Attributes: 5 Str / 20 Dex / 82 Int / 5 Att / 14 Vit
▸ Resistances: 78% / 105% / 81% / 64% / 98% / 87% / 69%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 43%, Threshold: 1,202
▸ Dodge Chance: 10% (323)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 28% (1,263)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 103%

Used skills:

Chaos Bolts / Reaper Form / Marrow Shards / Harvest / Flay

[lost gale]

it does more damage, has more aoe and gains more from dread shade but it costs you skill points & doesn't benefit from Bone Curse's 50% more physical damage for affected minions because it doesn't do physical & that also means you can't scale it with aura of decay's -phys res.

Overall I think the best builds don't use it and use the phys scaling instead (armor shred is also better for phys)

[drowsy ocean]

Ah, according to google Bone curse can't go together with dread shade...unless it's wrong?

but yea you make good points

[lost gale]

wrong

there's no curse limit in LE and dread shade isn't a curse in the first place

but you do have to cast bone curse every 4s on your abom

[obtuse quest]

That's wrong, there's just not that much of a reason to use both together.

Bone Curse only buffs physical damage, so if your minion’s main damage is not physical, bone curse’s buff does close to nothing.

[half kelp]

16 seconds :3

i am ready for uberroth

[warm wharf]

any lich build suggestions? please thank u

[echo nexus]

Rounding up my harvest farming build, and then transitioning to mana flay as well. Getting hyped seeing all the footage

[wispy scroll]

Hey im in doubt about marrow shard triggered by flay, this one can hit the same target than flay ? Like a boss for exemple without add

[lilac bear]

Those of you doing Mana flay (with marrow) have you considered using the "Seeds of Undeath" node in Harvest? As I see it, you are typically crit capped, so you are critting with flay 100% of the time, meaning that every attack procs Marrow shards. but "Bones of the Follower" only gives you the damage benefit when you have a minion to sacrifice. Your boots are only generating a skeleton with a 6% chance. Unless I'm misssing something, wouldn't taking "Seeds of Undeath" greatly boost your Marrow damage?

[obtuse quest]

Seeds of death costs skill points you don't have, in theory.

(Also against bosses the 6% will be rolled pretty often)

[lilac bear]

6% is just once per Flay hit, not all hits.

[obtuse quest]

You'll be spamming Flay against bosses to proc all the skills tied to it.

[lilac bear]

Yes, so 6% of your Marrow hits will be boosted, the other 94% won't be.

[obtuse quest]

Which is fine, because most of mana flay's damage comes from the sheer output of chaos bolts anyway, marrow shards is a bonus.

Additionally, seeds of undeath has a 5 zombie per 3 second cap.

[lilac bear]

Yeah, there is that.

[obtuse quest]

If you're hitting about 15 times every 3 seconds (Something very not hard to do in a full setup), it only boosts marrow shards damage by 33% estimated.

If you hit even more often, the boosted uptime is even less.

Since it's not your main damage anyway, using 5 harvest points for it seems not really worth it.

[lilac bear]

Just looked up TooMuch's profile and see that they do in fact take that node, to get to another node; https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/Toomuchluck/character/TooMuchLich

So seems it's a known thing already.

[obtuse quest]

Oh undead harvest for the generic 5% more damage, yeah.

[candid plinth]

So the Misery Node doesn't change the buff to necrotic? Damn. Still, I think using Bone Curse for it's on hit effect could be good. Or it will once I get to a point where the minions actually let me cast things before the mobs and bosses die.

Only level 52 right now. 🤣

[obtuse quest]

No, it does not. The buff stays as physical.

(Bone Curse also scales with your damage so unless you're using it for armour shred and/or Marked for Death, don't.)

[candid plinth]

I'm looking at both, actually. I have enough shared damage increases the damage from Bone Curse shouldn't be negligible, and the points not spent buffing minions need to go somewhere.

[obtuse quest]

It probably will be negligible, since it actually triples if you're the one that procs Bone Curse's damage. ANd shared increases are pretty low. (Also you probably don't have any flat spell damage.)

[lost gale]

bone curse barely deals real damage even if you're a warlock specialising in curse damage and triggering it with chaos bolts

it's a utility skill

[nocturne viper]

Why do some mana flay builds use valeroot, just for the plus mana? What's better, that or Ox

[lost gale]

mana, flat damage

I think

[half kelp]

if you got survi its best in slot for the mana

[candid plinth]

I will have added spell damage, and Bone Curse being proc'd by 20+ minions makes up for the 3x muliplier.

[half kelp]

isnt it better to go iron mouths for crit multi instead of undead harvest?

or is there an interaction im missing

[obtuse quest]

How much, because if you do have added spell damage then your minions most likely aren't at their peak.

[half kelp]

getting to 2nd harbinger

we are doing it

[obtuse quest]

It's straight up a seperate 5% more damage for all your damage, it's a debuff

[candid plinth]

Between Dread Shade and the new wand, probably not enough. Hmm...

On a different note, does the Wraithlord from the unique helm inherit bonuses from the Summon Wraith tree?

[obtuse quest]

Yes, except converts.

[half kelp]

yeah makes sense

[little wigeon]

Harvest dmg doesn't matter

[half kelp]

i actually tuned down the mana in favour of more survivability for uberroth

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Bap7KE9Q

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 99

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.2

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (82) / Warlock (10)

General:

▸ Health: 2,252, Regen: 23.24/s
▸ Mana: 1,547.07, Regen: 27.4/s
▸ Ward Retention: 197%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 39 Str / 21 Dex / 86 Int / 20 Att / 25 Vit
▸ Resistances: 110% / 108% / 84% / 111% / 86% / 107% / 83%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 59%, Threshold: 1,150
▸ Dodge Chance: 11% (360)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 51% (3,264)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 103%

Used skills:

Chaos Bolts / Reaper Form / Marrow Shards / Harvest / Flay

[half kelp]

this is what im running with now

i can transition him before 2nd slam

[obtuse quest]

But the debuff that would boost all damage does

[half kelp]

but im getting owned by the destroyed ground aoe

having hard time positioning him so that i can still do dmg

because he does the backhop after the destroyed ground

i can tank flail easy

[little wigeon]

Yup I run that, was my point

[half kelp]

any pointers @little wigeon ?

[little wigeon]

I just nuke him down haha 😄 but it helps to understand the tells like the melee swing so you can death seal or the ground of death

Or just dodge out of the way if no death seal

Also positioning him comes with practice. Like forcing him to shoot out the fire projectiles or the necrotic waves to get free dmg windows. At the end keep him near to center

[little wigeon]

Eternal gauntlets would be great if going a tanky route. Armor to Dot DR is a must (vise after uber kill)

Can also max out impact ward. Dot DR is big for uber

[candid plinth]

🫠 My buildoholism is striking again. Now I want to try making a Abberant Call + Wraithlord's Harbour build instead just minion horde.

[little wigeon]

Health is also huge as provides more endurance threshold. Would consider %hp on chest and belt. You can always grab the crit avoid blessing if you really want it with a suffix on gloves

[half kelp]

Cheers

[tribal zenith]

currently playing skele pop with mana stacking, but my limit is at 100 corruption, i cannot build that 1k mana that the build says that i need. i am currently at 650mana. can you please help me with some advice? is there another version of the build that i can play till i get the necessary items for the mana stacking ?

[lost gale]

you could do endurance stacking with the T-Rex relic & the shield which gives block chance per uncapped endurancec

but really skelly mages just have terrible scaling modifiers other than the mana/chaos bolts stuff

[tribal zenith]

the thing is that i am not getting killed, just that my damage is really low

[lost gale]

read the T-rex relic

it gives damage to minions per endurance

along with the other stat scaling

[tribal zenith]

ahaam, ookay, so endurance seems to be the way for now

[obtuse quest]

Huh? SKele pop not having damage is weird, build planner?

[tribal zenith]

i just respec into skelly pop, so dont expect much hahah, will send in 1 sec

[lost gale]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/qxvx80ql#1 This is the setup

[tribal zenith]

this is my current build https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner

[obtuse quest]

You linked an empty planner

[tribal zenith]

my bad: https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/fb9gz0c5

will now roll to the endurance version

hopefully it helps

[tribal zenith]

this is what i managed to do : https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/fb9gz0c5

[lost gale]

33% endurance man, rookie numbers you gotta get those numbers up

[tribal zenith]

its 133% end

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/wx9hp0qy

[pearl snow]

That or the rampant coast setup

[lost gale]

must have clicked the wrong planner or misread it my bad

[half kelp]

yeah, im way closer to going the sustain route than i am going nuke all out.. i have the mana, but im lacking especially in high lp weapons

[little wigeon]

Imprint rampant coast on weaver tree and use the mats to buy amber from the vendor is my go to. No setup needed

[half kelp]

like, my damage is good enough for sure, just need to sustain the ground aoe

would be interesting to see one of ur kills with the dmg setup

[little wigeon]

Yea getting more LP on weapons helps alot with the nuking and the vise gloves for mel speed and more delay dmg

I have 2lp axe and 3lp dagger. Everything else is pretty much lp1 slam