💀┃acolyte

[abstract summit]

it's fine

you can always roll a beast master to farm your uber items lol

[calm dome]

I have a dream of Lich tanking uberroth slam by converting 100% of hit damage taken to be taken over 4 seconds

[celest steeple]

Dang I was hoping with the Dex scaling melee Lich would be better

[tall mural]

Uber isnt that hard, it's the mechanics and the eye cancer that make it what it is

Melee lich IS better, like 100 flat isn't to be scoffed at, heck even just 50 puts you at matching 2h dmg on a 1h

[abstract summit]

if you need to actually dodge stuff for 5 minutes that isnt trivial for most

myself included kek

[tall mural]

Not saying it's trivial, just annoying

I watched that fight and was like Im never gonna do that cancerous thing

[celest steeple]

That was my thinking, like getting to 120-150 stat isnt hard if you stack it and thats 240-300 flat melee

[abstract summit]

ye but at the end of the day neither flay nor harvest is a 600% damage effectiveness skill

[celest steeple]

True but there are plenty of viable skills that aren't 600% DE lol

[tall mural]

just means I gotta hit three times as fast

[abstract summit]

dont think anybody said they are not viable

just dont scale to sub 2-3 minutes uber levels

[celest steeple]

Oh thats fine

[tall mural]

In the end, not every build has to do all content to be viable. I think harvest will be just fine for 90% of the game and doable the other 10%

[celest steeple]

Thats beyond what I ever care to achieve

[tall mural]

I have so many dumb ideas to try out this patch

[celest steeple]

I keep starting over Flay builds because I realize ANOTHER way I could build it

[tall mural]

Poison bolt spam via fester

[celest steeple]

How does one sustain Flay mana without that new unique axe?

[abstract summit]

well 😄

you kinda dont

[celest steeple]

I'm not opposed to using it but was curious haha

New axe it is!

[abstract summit]

not speccing CB procs and speccing cost reduction but those are kinda grief

[celest steeple]

yaaa I want the CB procs for Harvest :3

[calm dome]

My goal for this patch is to make a Lich tank uberroth slams with 100% of hit damage taken over 4 seconds with Deal Seal+Spectral Wounds

[celest steeple]

HA that would be funny

[calm dome]

I will be satisfied if I can get that going

[celest steeple]

also the gloves can help

Grasp of the Blood Mage

[abstract summit]

with death seal up im fairly sure you can tank the slam, without i dont think so

[calm dome]

I'm wondering if convering over 100% would make you take more damage though

[slim mason]

U use cb and bone curse

[celest steeple]

well cb just pays for itself doesnt it?

Cost 2 and then gives 2 back when hitting cursed

[calm dome]

90% from death seal+spectral wounds is already a flat 100%

[abstract summit]

ye the problem is flay's mana cost

[celest steeple]

how does Bone Curse return mana?

[slim mason]

Hits on cursed returns mana

[abstract summit]

and some from rip blood depending on if you are also triggering it from boots and cb

[slim mason]

On warlock tree

[celest steeple]

dont you have to direct cast rip blood for mana?

[abstract summit]

no it eats mana 😄

[celest steeple]

ohhh ya i already had that, flay itself applies 2 curses so dont need bone curse

thats enough by itself?

[abstract summit]

harvests are free, marrowshards are free, CBs are free. flay and rips cost

[slim mason]

Rips can be zero casted

[celest steeple]

ya and going the cb route makes flay cost even more

[celest steeple]

not with the boots

Army of Skin

[slim mason]

Ah

Not using that

If it's primordial item

[celest steeple]

so with CB node + rip blood its 20 mana per cast

its not primordial

[slim mason]

Hmm

[celest steeple]

it seems quite good

[abstract summit]

ye if you want to melee it's a shoein

[hearty sparrow]

what time the game will open at 21

[celest steeple]

gives melee damage and area for melee and if youre going spell route gives you rip blood affected by deadly plot

[abstract summit]

(badummtsk)

[slim mason]

Noon est

Since it's midnight my time

[abstract summit]

well. eleventh hour games ya know 😄

[celest steeple]

so for a Dex Lich, Int as a secondary prefix would be solid ya?

[hearty sparrow]

also after krafton bought it will it be worth to play trade again ? i like it but there's ALWAYS a glitch or bug dublicate gold or RMT and trade server bugs/stop

[slim mason]

So us players get a 8hr headstart

[hearty sparrow]

i just noticed iam talking in wrong chat

[slim mason]

Yep

[buoyant bear]

We forgive you

Just step near the abomination for a second, it won't hurt much

[hearty sparrow]

i fav acoylte among all but its been bad i tested most build in offline

[slim mason]

Warlock was ok

[celest steeple]

So if I am not taking advantage of low life synergies, theres no reason for me to take Corrupted Form ya?

[abstract summit]

there is hardly ever a reason to take corrupted form, dont at me lol

[slim mason]

Ward is love and ward is life

[celest steeple]

I keep reading it over and over and can't think of a time I'd rather do that then be full LL or full HP

[hearty sparrow]

only build that was insanly good but its rly bothering to keep up the summon tech was abmonation

[abstract summit]

7k+ HP with giga endurance and other defensives layers or a glass cannon build specifically for uber where you take scornful and repaer form at the same time are the use-cases we arrived to

[slim mason]

There vwas a brief moment with wraithlord

Now is fire nation all over again

For necros

[celest steeple]

I was wanting to lean heavy into the leech aspect to sustain Reaper form as long as possible

So seemed silly to cap my HP at 50% lol

[obtuse fossil]

So hey...is Crimson Horror just too expensive to spam? Any way to deal with how much mana it can hog?

[calm dome]

Overleech with accursed feast to have constant leech instances is an example

Since you never reach 66%

[celest steeple]

I considered that, since youre capped at 50% you always have the giga leech but is that really worth capping your HP/Ward?

[calm dome]

That's what I'm building towards

Corrupted form+accursed feast and work from there

[celest steeple]

for something looking to take advantage of some LL synergy I could see that

[calm dome]

I mean 30% more hp from corrupted form will give you plenty

People can criticize corrupted form, I see the potential

[celest steeple]

definitely nice but 50% less HP and capped ward is a massive tradeoff

im curious to see how it plays out

[calm dome]

Not really

[abstract summit]

is

[celest steeple]

like why would i want 2k hp and 2k ward capped instead of 4k hp

unless you're doing LL for some synergy

but then i have to ask why do that instead of going normal LL?

ig it lets you do LL with Reaper form

[calm dome]

Because splitting dot damage between ward and hp is good with the node next to it and you only need 10% maximum health as endurance to have the 50% hp be fully covered by endurance reduction. Add in death seal and you basically have more ehp than just HP/LL ward

Like I don't get how you don't see how this is good tbh

It's like corrupted soul in poe 1

[abstract summit]

endurance only protects your life

[calm dome]

Splitting damage and having good recover for both pools is insane

[celest steeple]

but if you had those exact same stats but not corrupted form you would have that same endurance and 50% more hp and uncapped ward

seems like it would be stronger during death seal

but thats 40% uptime

[abstract summit]

if you have any respectable amount of ward, which a lot of lich builds have, then you are very much in the net negative when it comes to one shot EHP

[calm dome]

You guys can do w.e you want

I'll be eating uberroth slams with corrupted form

And be happy

It already sounds like you convinced yourself it is bad so what is the point lol

[celest steeple]

im genuinely asking for positives to it since they must have added it for a reason and i cant find a good reason to do so

[abstract summit]

i mean im open to see your EHP numbers on your build with and without instead of just feelscrafting 🙂

[calm dome]

It's like I'm speaking to PoB warriors who can only quote numbers from a bis build

[celest steeple]

ive never played PoE and again am genuinely asking

[calm dome]

I have answered the pros to it but you denying it is just past explanations lol

If you don't see my points as positives, what else do I say if you have convinced yourself it is not good enough

Simple as

🤷‍♂️

[celest steeple]

i see all the pros you listed, im just wondering how those wouldnt also apply without corrupted form? minus the 30% more HP it gives which is obvs huge

death seal is better in that setup for sure, but im wondering if the 40% uptime makes that worth it?

[calm dome]

Overleech+font of the erased+corrupted form is just insane recovery with Death Seal preventing any one shots beats the "EHP" you lose when in reality, just treat the ward as basically playing with full HP only

Different form of recovery to get it but it's essentially playing a life build at full life

But getting ll benefits

Like I said

I genuinely dont get how people don't see that when all they want to complain about is ward being limited

It's just a life build

[coarse dew]

question, how do you recover your ward?

[celest steeple]

thats essentially how im viewing it; a life build where half your life is ward

[calm dome]

You will never have ward be higher than life since it is capped

So you will always recover ward with font of the erased

[celest steeple]

ahh ok im interested to see how it goes

[sharp galleon]

it's also particularly good for anything that scales off missing hp

[celest steeple]

i definitely see the implications if you have some sort of LL synergy

[sharp galleon]

obviously since more hp

[abstract summit]

you know death seal has a 4/13s uptime

[celest steeple]

like CB DoT dmg for instance

[calm dome]

You only need to death seal actual one shots

[kind forge]

but it can be equal and therefore not work

and if you drain life it CAN still be lower

[coarse dew]

👌

[sharp galleon]

unless you get one shot your life is never going to be below 50% with overleech

[kind forge]

current health drained as ward

[calm dome]

Why would I use those items when I don't need it for ward generation

Or that stat in general

[sharp galleon]

^

[calm dome]

When I am playing for overleech

[tender ridge]

because you're building a meme phys ghostflame build that scales DoT multi off your current health drained

I'm not saying that's something I was planning

but there's a strong possibility

[kind forge]

lol

[coarse dew]

leech doesn't last forever even with unending leech, and iirc the 66% increased leech rate also makes it drop even faster

someone asked in dev chat

[calm dome]

I don't expect overleech to have 100% uptime but if I'm doing damage I know I'm constantly leeching

Like yes, leech instances end. But does that mean leech is bad?

Lol

[kind forge]

since your health never caps your leech never ends

or well it ends normally

[calm dome]

I'm thinking of throwing seed of ekkidrasil into the mix to make DoT damage split between life and mana with both benefiting from endurance as well

But that might be overkill in all honesty

Dot damage bypassing ward with the impact ward notable after corrupted form obviously

Y'all see a build with limited ward, I see a full life build with overleech and gets low life benefits

[celest steeple]

what are the LL benefits?

also can you explain what you mean by overleech?

[celest steeple]

oh i mean ya 80% extra increased dmg is nice

[coarse dew]

you seem to think that I made my point to say leech is bad, when I in fact 100% agree with you. maybe you gotta introspect that not everyone is like trying to prove you wrong or something?

[calm dome]

When you deal damage and have leech, the instance of leech will recover your life till you hit full HP. All possible recovery from that leech instance and any other leech instances are removed and you have to do damage while having hp gone again to create new instances.

Overleech is basically your leech instances never ending. Because corrupted form puts you at 50%, you never reach full life so your leech instances never fall off. Think of it as really good hp regen

[celest steeple]

so you get like, the "full value" of every leech

[calm dome]

Yes

[celest steeple]

instead of it falling off halfway through bc you hit 100% hp

[tender ridge]

there's also all the things that trigger upon reaching lowlife or being hit when you're at low life. they'll just trigger on CD consistently

kinda low value imo but it's there

[celest steeple]

and why is DoT bypassing ward good?

[calm dome]

It should 120% increased since it is 40% × 3 with 8 points

[celest steeple]

bc of the overleech?

[calm dome]

Yeah the overleech will recover the dot damage

[celest steeple]

i meant 80% more than not being LL

reg life would get 40%, LL gets 120%

ok that makes more sense

so its just outrageous sustain for lower EHP but then you just have Death Seal for instances where you would be 1 shot

[calm dome]

Exactly

[celest steeple]

ty for the explanation!

[calm dome]

Dot damage gets mitigated by endurance as well since you ideally want to have 50% hp as endurance threshold. You get to 40% with maxed corrupted form

[celest steeple]

right, that makes sense. so youre just walking around at 60% DR after ward and always for DoT

[abstract summit]

ye i mean DoT damage will never kill you, but shit starts to hit big at high corruption. I'm not sure how will you anticipate perfectly which incoming hits will be one shots and pop death seal for them but well

[tender ridge]

honestly i'm glad they reworked deathseal the way they did. it pretty much killed the death-seal builds themselves, but requiring it for any lich build that wanted to actually deal damage was obnoxious

it was such a massive damage steroid

[calm dome]

Death seal being a defensive panic button now instead of spam off cd is something I welcome

[kind forge]

also works on potions

since your not at full health ever potions you pick up will all be auto use after you hit potion cap

[calm dome]

Can you queue potions?

[kind forge]

you have to be at max potions

but every potion after that will automatically work all the time

which means triggering effects "on potion use"

[calm dome]

I meant more like if I use all my potion charges at once, does each potion use queue up one after the other or do they not queue

[kind forge]

they dont queue

[calm dome]

That's unfortunate but would've been fun to play with

Could be good with the cleanse on potion use affix

[errant patrol]

whats the leveling strat just minions?

for this season

[kind forge]

no

warlock

like always

[errant patrol]

what skills and stuff

or just follow maxroll

[kind forge]

follow but its basically fissure

also i just noticed

we dont need that one axe with minion stun immunity anymore

[errant patrol]

im guessing it is but is it good enough to carry until i can full spec into flay

[kind forge]

yes

[errant patrol]

thanks

[kind forge]

kinda tempting

probably triggered through flay or rip blood and not direct cast but ye

might be bait tho

[potent fable]

gives you bone armor, 100% gobal spell dmg and solves mana issues. seems good

and dont even have to cast it

[kind forge]

well if your playing that you dont have mana issues in the first place

cuz you eat your life

or your skills cost nothing

[tender ridge]

i could never get a skeleton cadence that felt good when I tried using the minion eating node for marrow shards

ideally you never want to stop casting it and you just don't have enough minions to keep up with the cast speed

[calm dome]

I was thinking of trying that build dread did where he marrow shards the skeletons to proc the bone armor off them and it casts rip blood when bone armor falls off

https://youtu.be/Ms_Qrw2Vr_4?si=imKvXmtFfjZHe7WA

Looked fun

[errant patrol]

bleed flay is gonna be dummy strong right?

[lusty heart]

so how are the tanky army builds looking this patch?

[kind forge]

thats why you dont spam it as hard

[tender ridge]

i don't understand that concept

[kind forge]

6 skeletons 3 seconds till the last one respawns
you can cast 2 per second

if you can push 9 you can do 3 per second and thats about identical to the cast time

[tender ridge]

isn't the cast time 1.5/s without any cast speed increases?

[kind forge]

lety me see

yes

so ye i mean there shouldnt be any problem unless they are dying for other reasons

[tender ridge]

can you get to 100% autores without being a necro

[calm dome]

Ok I am definitely going to do the bone curse rip blood minion idea. All the new stuff rip blood got improved it

Stack bleed and blood tether for single target

Self cast the rip blood on bosses and the marrow shards will cast towards the minions to proc the bone curse

Ok yeah I think this is it lol

[kind forge]

yes

technically anyone on accolyte can get 100% res

cuz the necro passive for it is before the chain

[slim mason]

Hybrid is the new meta

[kind forge]

i dont think so

youll never die to anything that doesnt one shot you

sure

but

your raw health ammount is gonna make you alot more oneshottable

[vital cave]

this isnt true - dots in this game are dealt in discrete chunks, so if a dot is big enough it can "one shot" you.

[tender ridge]

you get 40 from the necro passive, 40 from skellies, and where's the last 20

[kind forge]

sinatha shield set effect

[vital cave]

i dont think the rework to lich is that impressive tbh

[tender ridge]

aah

[vital cave]

unless there are some nice bugs to be found, its all a bit weak

[pearl scarab]

it has cool tools and I'm excited to try to break it

but it does seem less extreme than other reworks

[vital cave]

as is tradition in LE, the best builds will be based on a bug that doesn't rise to the level of getting fixed immediately

[pearl scarab]

I'll bet ya a few siphons that something will be silly on falconeer again

[slim mason]

Well same can be said for most arpg

[kind forge]

up to 20% at t5
up to 47% at t7
and up to 94% at t8

[slim mason]

Hh comes to mind

[pearl scarab]

time to go use a T8 cold res affix to giga juice frostbite shackles

[slim mason]

Cries in 40k ward

[vital cave]

as lich is my favorite class, I'm pretty miffed at how weak it is compared to say Sentinel reworking, esp what they did and maintained with Paladin

[pearl scarab]

I'm assuming I'm missing some kinda sauce with it

[kind forge]

to be fair

lich does get alot more access to life now

[pearl scarab]

yea

[vital cave]

some clever combo wombo will possibly emerge, but its not screaming at me upon first glance

[tender ridge]

having to use a shield and not getting the juicy catalyst stats feels bad

[pearl scarab]

not having lich be like 4 different masteries that don't work well together is a big buff

[kind forge]

not enough phys on new lich

[vital cave]

paladin on the other hand just beamed MASSIVE DEFENSIVE POWER all over the place the moment the rework was public

[kind forge]

theres like

a little bit of phys pen on one passive

and everything else is ele or necrotic

[pearl scarab]

like surely this + frostbite shackles is half decent right

[tender ridge]

it didn't have much before either

[kind forge]

true i mean

[vital cave]

res is pretty weak use of your only T8/primeval item

[kind forge]

but still

[tender ridge]

it was largely just spell damage and DoT

[pearl scarab]

yea

[tender ridge]

three plagues existed identically

[kind forge]

maybe not

[pearl scarab]

@vital cave I will figure out how to bring back the old ward setup

[vital cave]

doubtful, ward decay has 3 or 4 regimes now its effectively impossible to sustain much over 10k

[tender ridge]

frostbite shackles was nice as another source of freeze multi for my frostbite flask last season

[vital cave]

you'd need staggering amounts of ward gen

[pearl scarab]

yea

still not gonna stop me from trying tho

[kind forge]

5 ward per 1% uncapped poison res uwu

[pearl scarab]

theory crafting is 70% of any arpg

[kind forge]

waaait a second

isnt soulbarrier like really good for hybrid

[pearl scarab]

which one is that

[kind forge]

cuz if you lose all your ward youll just get it all back instantly

[vital cave]

6 second cooldown

its shit

[kind forge]

drop below half health and gain 5 ward per uncapped poison res

[unreal hill]

Im gonna make a t8 necrotic taken as physical body armor

[vital cave]

now we talkin

[pearl scarab]

ehh?

[kind forge]

sure but if you lose all your ward slower than 6 seconds youll just get instant refuel

[pearl scarab]

maybe with the cap your health and ward to 50% of your max health thing? but wouldn't that stop it from procing anyways

[kind forge]

no

[tender ridge]

I'm excited to get to use twisted heart with marrow shards

[pearl scarab]

oh wait so if its off cooldown and your at say 40% health that hit still procs it?

[tender ridge]

and thrones of ambition

[tender ridge]

yeah

[unreal hill]

Whats the combo there

I havent looked at marrow shards yet

[tender ridge]

marrow shards can convert to cold, does a lot of hit damage so it leeches back the twisted heart cost as well as its own cost

[kind forge]

it should ... as long as youi take more dmg

[tender ridge]

it also double casts for double twisted heart procs

[kind forge]

basically the hit that lowers your health by any ammount should trigger it

[vital cave]

might as well use rip blood converted to necrotic and abuse blood tether with damned stacking

WAY faster cast speed

[tender ridge]

it doesn't even have to lower your health. as long as your health is below the threshold, it'll proc if it's off CD even if the hit only dealt ward damage

[kind forge]

damned is also super convenient for a dot

[pearl scarab]

huh

[kind forge]

every damned stack reduces the enemies regen if it has any

[calm dome]

I just realized it says it releases a death wave without death seal being active. That is kinda neat

🤔

I wonder if it works with the stuff that replaces evade

[tender ridge]

you can easily crit cap marrow shards and cast it like 6+ times per second. how are you casting faster than that to stack enough damned of all things to make the blood tether do the same damage

[kind forge]

the wand

or chaos bolt

basically being a lich

i mean

warlock

sorry

[tender ridge]

it takes 100 stacks to just double the damage on blood tether. it makes sense with bleed but damned takes way more investment

[vital cave]

rip blood is 100% dmg eff + blood tether is 200% dmg eff/s, and it deals more dmg per damned stack (or bleed if u dont convert, but then u cant use it with urherkerhekrl relic, if that was ever a concern)

anyway it doesnt matter - none of this stuff is gonna hold a candle to coal poison, again

[tender ridge]

i haven't heard anyone in here talking about coal poison since the patch notes lol. people are too excited for new stuff

[kind forge]

we are praying for more relevant lich builds

[vital cave]

well newsflash, coal poison just got omega buffed 🙂

check out decaying form

[tender ridge]

should be a bounty out for a non-coal drain life build killing uberoth

[vital cave]

they took its downside and inverted it lol

[kind forge]

oh ye

[vital cave]

and then they added the godliest threshold of all time

[kind forge]

and spark charges got a buff too

[pearl scarab]

Im gonna try full melee lich

surely it will work right

[kind forge]

kinda tempted to just leave AoD as poison

[tender ridge]

honestly yeah. cold harvest looks like it could be good

[kind forge]

AoD gives 30% less poison dmg taken + 20% less and then that gives an extra 20% less

[vital cave]

oh of course - aura with full poison investment + decaying form maxed out is simply god tier dot mitigation

[kind forge]

so 70% less

[vital cave]

and especially poison mit

@kind forge those are probably not additive?

[kind forge]

and then half of all dots dmg become posion

[kind forge]

ok 60%

cuz the 2 passives in aura of decay are additive

50%

and then 20% of 50% for 60%

[vital cave]

yea i think thats right

[tender ridge]

this honestly is just kinda okay as a damage node for how far it is in the tree and how many points it takes. FANTASTIC defensive node

[vital cave]

so take 70% of all dots, except poison take 40% of that

[kind forge]

so basically that passive is just take 25-30% less dot dmg

at least during AoD

[unreal hill]

It should

[vital cave]

this node is the #1 dmg node for poison coal anyway, so its pure omega upgrade 😄

[kind forge]

true

[vital cave]

also... with AOD now doing much less dmg to you, investing in it doing much more dmg and causing poisons more frequently may be a good play since we now have MUCH more dot leech/generic leech available, this turns it into a "RF" that leeches extremely well

its an insane synergy with coal poison - and excellent dc/lag mitigation in hc

[calm dome]

There's too many new things to play with. Now I'm looking at Lich autobomber possibilities

[kind forge]

it doesnt exist anymore

it basically got replaced by fester

[vital cave]

?

[kind forge]

theres no more increased activation rate per second passive

its just flat ammounts now

[vital cave]

sure there is

[tender ridge]

i don't think there has been for a while. I was looking at it before LEtools update and only saw the flat increases. the one that ramped up only ramped up the self-application

[vital cave]

Rot Weaver, Unending Sickness (duration, same effect), Mana Blight, Poisoned Soul

[kind forge]

there is only 1 and it doesnt escelate anymore

ye its just flat 50% to both sides

[vital cave]

i dont mean the crazy icarian poison thing

[kind forge]

it used to be like 10% per second per second

[vital cave]

i just mean juicing up the application rate - remember your poison chance scales it

[vital cave]

I never used that madness in hc, just too risky

[high tendon]

Haven't played in a couple of seasons... I've heard ward was reworked... is there an accurate ward calculator like the one tunk made?

[kind forge]

now fester is the one that escelates per second per second

but it just scales the dmg

6% per stack

up to 13 stacks

for standing still

[vital cave]

pretty bad for coal playstyle

or any playstyle - standing still in LE is asking to get pumped

[kind forge]

honestly

its not bad

[vital cave]

well, gl

standing still death sentence in LE

[kind forge]

i think there is a way to bypass that

[vital cave]

if you're an invulnerable god u can try it tho?

[tender ridge]

smelter's wrath moment

"You're gonna stand there and I'm gonna blast you. Don't move"

[kind forge]

virulence + ghostflame

[pearl scarab]

I'm convinced wrath's be tankier while charging thing doesnt actually work

[tender ridge]

it definitely works

[kind forge]

you might be able to gain fester stacks while moving during ghostflame if you take the movement passive on it

[tender ridge]

I was hitting armor DR cap last season with it

and my super undertuned build

[pearl scarab]

nah thats like half my point, forge guard already has a ton of armor

[tender ridge]

ah yeah that's fair if you're just talking about relative tankiness

[pearl scarab]

I'd rather it make you tankier in a different way

[tender ridge]

they should swap it to straight up DR while channeling similar to rebuke

[pearl scarab]

I coulda worded my first message about it better

mb

[tender ridge]

basically, you can stand still in LE and be fine

[tender ridge]

you just have to be smart about it or have a build dedicated to allowing it

[pearl scarab]

tbh just give it a node that has you under rebuke's effect while channeling it

[tulip turret]

Is lich viable?

[kind forge]

barely

[tulip turret]

Good

[pearl scarab]

at the very least with coal yea

[tulip turret]

I thought it would be cool to play

[tender ridge]

I can get behind that. Give me more reasons to spec rebuke

[pearl scarab]

speced rebuke is rare af given how often rebuke is used

[kind forge]

praying that lich isnt bait this season

[tulip turret]

Wont it be way better after the rework?

[tulip turret]

Me too

[kind forge]

no

[vital cave]

I dont think theres any method of mana generation that can sustain that

[kind forge]

its about the same

[tulip turret]

Why wouldn’t it be

[pearl scarab]

give lich soul feast back

[kind forge]

if were lucky there will be more stuff thats good enough tho

[tender ridge]

make soul feast do damage

while we're at it make bone curse do damage

[kind forge]

it does

[tulip turret]

I see

[tender ridge]

barely

[tulip turret]

What about necro or acolyte

[tender ridge]

I want to lightning conduit style blast things with the 1-hit bone curse

[tulip turret]

I meant warlock

[tender ridge]

all three masteries look good

[kind forge]

lel

[tulip turret]

That’s good to hear

[tender ridge]

yeah I'm aware that the option is there, the option is just trash

[tulip turret]

Is it smart to spec right into lich the second you unlock its mastery?

[tender ridge]

bone curse has god awful damage effectiveness, even accounting for it doing triple damage when you trigger it personally

[tulip turret]

Isn’t it supposed to be the best debuff for the class?

[tender ridge]

generally yes, that's what you want to do unless you have a very specific reason not to

bone curse is an exceptional spell it just sucks ass for dealing damage itself

[tulip turret]

Ok, that’s good, I’m just getting into the game, and want to play as one as soon as I get the opportunity

[kind forge]

oh ye it also has a cooldown oof

nvm

its bad

[abstract summit]

Did i miss something while sleeping, why is everybody suddenly dooming on lich

[tender ridge]

lol

[tulip turret]

Yeah but it isn’t meant to

It’s a debuff on enemies that MULTIPLIES your damage

You proc, then damage

[tender ridge]

it has modifiers specifically to turn it into a nuke, but even with all the mulipliers and a guaranteed crit it still sucks because the base damage is so low and it has terrible added damage effectiveness

[tulip turret]

Oh

Really?

That does not make any sense to me

[tender ridge]

it doesn't really multiply your damage either. it's a small amount of flat damage every time it's triggered. the real benefit of bone curse is the utility parts of it

[tulip turret]

Why make a debuff ability try to focus on damage

[kind forge]

copium tree?

[tulip turret]

Elaborate

[tender ridge]

it shreds armor, applies extra bleeds, executes, explodes, applies Mark for Death, gives Bone Armor

[tulip turret]

What utility is there if it doesn’t even do what it’s advertised to do

[tulip turret]

I see

[tender ridge]

casts Rip Blood

there's a lot of stuff it CAN do, but damage is not one

[tender ridge]

that's pretty close to what I was trying out

[kind forge]

also bone curse on transplant

[tender ridge]

you can't even mega blast things with repeated soul feasts because Cursed Limbs is rate limited to 1/s

[tulip turret]

What’s the variation in playstyle for warlock vs necro or lich

[tender ridge]

that's a broad question because each of those has many playstyles available

[kind forge]

its 2.5 seconds

Oh nv,

nvm

[tender ridge]

but in general warlock will lean towards dots, lich looks like more hits, and necro is minions

[tulip turret]

Yeah I guess I phrased it too generally

[tulip turret]

I figured as much

[tender ridge]

lich just got a big rework

[tulip turret]

It’s not out yet, is it?

[tender ridge]

no, thursday the 21st at 11am CST

[pearl scarab]

I mean the enemies explode node is right there

[tulip turret]

Yeah that’s what I had seen from the s3 trailer

[tender ridge]

ideally with bone curse actually dealing damage the explode node wouldn't matter. you curse the pack and they explode anyway

[pearl scarab]

I just like the explode node as insurance if i miss a hit on part of the pack/make the rare standing in the pack have a bad day

[tender ridge]

tru

[pearl scarab]

but then also the dreaded mana cost

[tender ridge]

i just want the combo of BC -> soul feast blast to be good

[pearl scarab]

when soul feast was a lich skill I used to do the aura bone curse + soul feast and it worked well

[tender ridge]

like Warlock even has the bigass crit multi boost with the double damage node right before it. it builds itself

[pearl scarab]

there was some node that was making soul feast auto cast or something I think

[kind forge]

hmmmmm
but now it costs 30 mana lel

[tender ridge]

well if your 30 mana erases the threat, I call it a win

what are the minion nodes for

[kind forge]

zombies

[pearl scarab]

beware my goofy plan for the no mana regen hat 3 gauranteed es smack vk

[tender ridge]

hey I was thinking about a zombie-bolt build the other day

[left whale]

I do love zombies

[tender ridge]

i've yet to play with zombies. never liked SRS in poe and wanted to avoid that playstyle

[kind forge]

basically this converts it from 8 projectiles to 1 projectile with 400% dmg and 280% area

and then the more yoiu cast it the worse its area gets but the more base crit it gets

[pearl scarab]

big hungering soul but good?

[tender ridge]

that is technically less damage per cast but I think each projectile rolls its own crit. you'd definitely get bigger numbers with big bolt

[kind forge]

oh and also mana scaling

1 spell dmg per 20 max mana

thats the other big passive by the single bolt passive

[tender ridge]

isn't it spell damage to your minions

[kind forge]

oof nvm

removing that

kek

[tender ridge]

i was gonna use that to make some extra virulent zombies the other day lol

[kind forge]

ok so

30 mana with the chance for it to cost 43 mana for 30% more dmg

[tender ridge]

one unfortunate part of scaling crit bolts is that the damage is split between fire and necrotic

[kind forge]

ye

[tender ridge]

shred and pen is rough

[kind forge]

i think you just go full in on generic dmg types

like crit

cuz ye its kinda sucky

its 2 parts dmg

and neither of those parts will ever overlap

necrotic gets converted to phys

and fire gets converted to cold

so you cant even use the new ele lich passive

could also do this

small chance to double cast

@tender ridge

or swing it over to bone curse ig

[tender ridge]

it's only 10% more damage on average. you're probably better off with the more vs cursed and maybe the rip blood nodes

rip blood also has crit scaling now

[kind forge]

eh but rip blood doesnt fit uwu

[tender ridge]

fair

[abstract summit]

Is not rly

[tender ridge]

i'm always down for the thematically appropriate choice

[kind forge]

not enough good self cast passives

[tender ridge]

but it is. it's literally half of each

[abstract summit]

Literally not half of each

[kind forge]

i wonder how big single bolt actually is

with 8 proj

[abstract summit]

You have like 40 fire vs 220 necro flat in endgame planner

[kind forge]

cuz ye

[tender ridge]

how are you getting 220 flat necrotic as a warlock

[kind forge]

you get 280% area with that passive

and you get the chance for 160% area from one of the passives leading to it

but youll lose 48% area due to the crit passive

[tender ridge]

you also likely want to try to find aw ay to get this into the skill pathing

[kind forge]

true

[abstract summit]

As a starter can add a t8 hybrid necro to a 2h or the axe? Whatever you do only the base and adaptive damage splits evenly, find some source of flat then you skew the damage profile one way

[kind forge]

nvm

[abstract summit]

Mourningfrost could be another example

[calm dome]

Death Seal 3 seconds × 1.36 from Moratorium 3/3 is ≈ 4 seconds. 3 seconds of hungering souls casts every 0.5 seconds. Cast reap/evade every 3 seconds. Worth?

70% chance of only single projectile though but that means lucky 30% for multiple projectiles

[kind forge]

what you do is you force single hungering souls

[tender ridge]

hybrid affix feels like you're giving up way too much on a pure caster build for just flat necrotic as opposed to a staff/wand

[kind forge]

cuz thats what we used to do

[calm dome]

I might be forcing the autobomb theme too much but hungering souls itself has cast when hit also. Can self cast hungering souls with the one unique that makes multiple hungering souls hit but they are shot in a line for single target

[abstract summit]

Ye I mean not saying self cast crit is optimal on lock (also didnt see you are not talking about lich sry) but you gotta -and can- skew the damage if you want to make it work

That said i tried many times doing it lock and it was always eh, the multis and the effectiveness just arent there imo

[kind forge]

combine that with death seal and the downside becomes irrelivant

[earnest lichen]

been wanting to test stuff so I logged in and started a character...only to realize there's no real point with how different aco will be thursday

[calm dome]

I mean it's not that much of a downside tbh. I still think 30% chance to just do a normal cast is fine and if I self cast hungering souls, can benefit from the multiple projectiles

[abstract summit]

It's also only good on lich cause we can scale the effectiveness to the moon from sources ironically outside of cb tree

[tender ridge]

yeah we were talking about stuff like auto-crit bone curse then it moved on to other crit things that aren't normally used that way

I will continue to be angry about bone curse being shit for damage

[abstract summit]

Ye that's kind of a bummer lol

I would be happy with 100% effectiveness at least lol

[tender ridge]

PoE has a very similar spell conceptually, and it's a cool playstyle

apply debuff, consume debuff and blast everything with it

but even accounting for bone curse dealing triple damage when you self-proc it, it just doesn't do any real damage

it's effectively 1664% more damage between the modifiers on the skill tree and the triple damage. still just a tickle lol

not even accounting for the guaranteed crit

[kind forge]

multi is bad

well it usually is bad

because without the staff they dont shotgun

and the staff is pretty meh

i mean its not horrible

but eeeh

but ye thats the only way to make multiproj actually kinda decent

[calm dome]

Yeah maybe not worth using it

[tender ridge]

I've seen someone use that staff to stack thousands of ignites with hungering souls in single target

[calm dome]

I was just surprised to see the autobomb stuff on death seal and not needing it to be active so I want to mess around with that on league start

[tender ridge]

yee

[kind forge]

ye

[calm dome]

If only self ignite was as good as it used to be

[kind forge]

ye they just made it worse this league

gave ashes of mortality a cap

how do you even get that much mana on a lich

on any acolyte

or the mana regen to actually use it for that matter

lel

[dark inlet]

whole channel has basically been about how to get 3K+ mana since Friday lol

[kind forge]

LOL

[abstract summit]

think you can mostly get the same if not more on lock, just what's the point there

[kind forge]

well was thinking of it for lich because soo many things need alot of mana now

[abstract summit]

t7 mana slams everywhere, full idol tab full of 1x1 double mana weaver idols, nihilis, new primordial relic for 60% increased idol effectiveness, new axe for spirit battery stacks basically

[kind forge]

oof

[abstract summit]

but wouldnt recommend unless this is your source of damage 😄

[kind forge]

flay

lel

cb

[abstract summit]

ye

[kind forge]

ye that sounds pain

[abstract summit]

wait until you hear about double T7 mana slams 😄

(as in double t7 double mana)

[kind forge]

LOL

t8 mana

[abstract summit]

nah the relic is just too good

[tender ridge]

I wish primalist had some good mana outlets

the new staff lets you get to like 1600 mana without any mana affixes

[left whale]

Thats what i did on my build planner 😂

[kind forge]

all we got is the new helmet

[abstract summit]

well congrats, your planner has a lotta damage 😄

cough cough BEAR

[tender ridge]

new staff is primordial too

[tender ridge]

bear when you're stacking attunement seems not great

[kind forge]

this is how you deal with mana on primalist

[tender ridge]

this is what I'm talking about

[abstract summit]

i saw some 120M uber DPS numbers flying around that looks pretty great to me lol

[kind forge]

lol

[kind forge]

now we need one that converts a mana cost to a life cost

[left whale]

Sorta used the same concept for my minion explosion builf

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Av6PjlRA

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3

Class:

Acolyte (32) / Necromancer (75) / Warlock (6)

General:

▸ Health: 1,556, Regen: 22/s
▸ Mana: 1,064.78, Regen: 10.56/s
▸ Ward Retention: 417%, Regen: 382/s
▸ Attributes: 2 Str / 12 Dex / 67 Int / 2 Att / 6 Vit
▸ Resistances: 30% / 30% / 54% / 0% / 0% / 671% / 6%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 311
▸ Dodge Chance: 2% (48)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 21% (811)

Used skills:

Summon Skeletal Mage / Summon Skeleton / Summon Volatile Zombie / Summon Bone Golem / Dread Shade

[left whale]

For each 25 max mana, the skele mage deals 5% more dmg

[abstract summit]

intersting, what scales with mana here

ah ic

[left whale]

Mage skele cast profane oblatiom on your warriors to explode

Each warriors death has 30% chance to proc zombies

And each warrior explosion gives u 15 mana

[kind forge]

and each warrior respawns on its own uwu

[left whale]

Yes i took that respawn chance node

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BEp9ZlwQ

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3

Class:

Acolyte (34) / Necromancer (79)

General:

▸ Health: 2,085, Regen: 162.3/s
▸ Mana: 144.51, Regen: 10.88/s
▸ Ward Retention: 340%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 170 Str / 22 Dex / 170 Int / 22 Att / 47 Vit
▸ Resistances: 84% / 84% / 84% / 82% / 89% / 99% / 99%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 272%, Threshold: 1,187
▸ Dodge Chance: 4% (120)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 79% (11,479)
▸ Block Chance: 121%, Mitigation: 33% (850)

Used skills:

Assemble Abomination / Summon Skeleton / Summon Skeletal Mage / Dread Shade / Infernal Shade

[left whale]

My abomination build

[kind forge]

use the new ring

replace your body with pale ox

oh wait nvm

your using the trex

[left whale]

Hahaha lol

[left whale]

What ring?

[kind forge]

its a new ring that replaces 1 set item in all sets you have equipped

[left whale]

Oohh yea

[left whale]

Thats good

[kind forge]

more skill levels at bare minimum

[left whale]

For sure i will try that

[kind forge]

but it also lets you be less gear pressured

[visual girder]

Dreadful is actually losing it in the bleed aod theorycrafting vid

What are they doing to him

[kind forge]

he got brain broken by abberoth

lel

[visual girder]

What trying to play gathering storm in endgame as the main damage source does to a traveler

"Yo i think (insert node) could improve this build!" what dreadful is seeing after trying to make aod do damage instead of kill you

[left whale]

One more day people

One more day

[visual girder]

Eh more like 1 and a half, since there's still 11 hours or so till the 24 hour shutdown

But yes I can't wait to play lich

[kind forge]

lol

[obtuse quest]

I didn’t have the time to pin a planner out yet so I’m probbaly winging it

[obtuse totem]

I may or may not be tapping a week off work next week

[topaz juniper]

It's really crazy

真是瘋狂

[earnest lichen]

I wish I could, but I already did that a few weeks ago for wow

[topaz juniper]

Unfortunately, there were no screenshots when there were 250 ghosts

可惜250隻幽靈的時候沒有截圖到

[kind forge]

blood spectres good now?

[topaz juniper]

Not very good, magic is not friendly

不太好 魔力很不友善

[kind forge]

lol

[topaz juniper]

A ghost consumes about 15-20 magic power

*一隻幽靈消耗大約15-20魔力 *

[kind forge]

i see

[topaz juniper]

Sorry, I can only communicate with you through translation

抱歉 我只能用翻譯溝通

[obtuse quest]

Yeah it eats mana like water still, but good to know there’s no real cap on them lmao

Someone will probably do something with that information

[topaz juniper]

If Sacrifice can’t target the Bone Golem, then this would be the crazyest build I’ve ever seen.

If Sacrifice can’t target the Bone Golem, then this would be the craziest build I’ve ever seen.

[hazy rapids]

What items do I want to make frost lich? Lots of cold damage?

[calm dome]

Are you trying to do frost bite or like cold crit

[dark inlet]

What's the DPS of Flay Bolts up to now in the unethical version? I'm trying to benchmark my Wildfire Embers Sorcerer idea against it. I know Flay Bolts is ahead, but I'm curious just how much.

[hazy rapids]

Not sure tbh I'll find out myself when i make the character in season 3

[obtuse quest]

Hard to recomend if you don't have a plan.

[abstract summit]

83ish mil. Prob 85+ if we would not be lazy gits and would actually count every skill lol (that is, lvl 100 dps)

[dark inlet]

Thanks

[abstract summit]

I think the benchmark is bear tho XD

[dark inlet]

Oh god, I haven't even looked at Primalist, what are they doing now?

[obtuse fossil]

2 more squirrels?

[abstract summit]

Making the bear spam earthquake with like 1000129848484904004040 more multipliers

It took Snap 7 minutes to just read out all the multis and he was exhausted by the end of it lol

[hazy rapids]

Just looked at season 3 skill trees - seems to be mostly cold damage

Aura of decay can trigger frostbite but thats really it

[kind forge]

it has a strong bias to cold dmg right now

the tree and the skill passives

[urban dust]

question:
where/how should I farm if I want to get Valdyr's Chalice ?

[remote drift]

Spam Circle of Fortune prophecies / buy from Merchant's Guild / use Rune of Ascendancies (~2% chance)

[fathom otter]

anyone know if bones of the follower node in marrow shards can proc from indirect casts ie from flay crit that casts marrow shards

[wild sequoia]

I'm new, looking for specifics before committing to a build.
Gonna try Necro.
I have 2 options, Physical damage or Fire.
I want to go Fire but have Physical damage as a back up.

Is there a way to stack Fire Shred stacks?
I can't find anyway to apply that stat, I only see Marked for dead and it seems out of reach.
Ideally I want to have marked for dead (-25%) and 20 stacks of negative fire resistance (-100%) on enemies.

If I go Physical, (because I can't stack fire shred) how many stacks of Physical shred is good to stack on enemies for late game?
Corruptions 300-500 range.

Thanks in advance,
Hope I was clear.

[vivid ruin]

Max fire shred stacks is 10 big dawg.

But yes, get shred somewhere.

You can maybe cast a spell to do the shredding vs bosses if your mins cant do it for you.

[wild sequoia]

I see....
which spell can I use? @vivid ruin

[remote drift]

There's a blessing for it, competes with armor and minion damage blessings though

[grim rune]

hehe

this (snaps)

[vivid ruin]

Good Q. If no minions can do it you'll need the blessing + a multihitting skill like chaos bolts, but you can pick any skill.

[wild sequoia]

Whats a blessing? an Idol?

[vivid ruin]

Blessings are rewards for completing monoliths.

[wild sequoia]

AAHHHH
attacks apply Fire shred on hit/spell.

Thanks @vivid ruin @remote drift

where can I grab "Marked for Death" for an extra 25%?

[vivid ruin]

Lots of skills have it but im not overly familiar with necro, best check the trees out.

I get it from flay.

[wild sequoia]

yea, thats what I'm doing but I can't find it.....

[remote drift]

Bone Curse is one way, also there's a node called Cursed Blood early on in Necromancer tree that applies Marked For Death on minion death

Volatile Zombies can also apply it but it's locked behind a node that converts their fire and phys damage to necrotic so idk if you vibe with that

[wild sequoia]

no thanks.

Which skill has more attack speed, rip blood ot Mirrow shards?

[remote drift]

Rip Blood has an increased cast speed node and minion synergy, Marrow Shards has synergy in a way that it can kill your minions to buff its damage

[lost gale]

the kill minions thing works for indirect casts too

[autumn meadow]

Sorry guys just a quickie; What actually counts as a 'curse'? Looking for a way to apply Bone Curse though Chaos Bolts using 'Another Affliction'.

[lost gale]

spirit plague, bone curse, marked for death are the most available ones but there are others.

[autumn meadow]

Fantastic, appreciate the help! Do most of these have a 'curse' tag in their tooltip, so I know what to look for?

[lost gale]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/ailments/
put curse in the filter and on each one you can look at sources to see all the ways it can be applied & modified

[wild sequoia]

looks like I have too drop a skill to utilize the blessing to inflict Shred....
I'm I missing something?

[lost gale]

you mean that you need to be hitting? you can use unspecialised hungering souls or rip blood i guess

[autumn meadow]

Ah beautiful, that's what I was forgetting! I've got Flay applying Marked for Death, and also triggering Chaos bolts, so those Chaos Bolts will then hit the Marked targets and proc Bone Curse 😄 Thanks a lot ❤️

[wild sequoia]

Correct,
I was hoping I could find ways to inflect -Fire res and mark for death on the same skill....
but there isn't any gear that allows me to do so.

[lost gale]

marked for death should be easy for necro, there's that threshold passive which applies it in an aoe on minion death

[urban dust]

holup, Carrion of Creation does not convert slow chance to bleed chance.

[lost gale]

just summon a skeleton and let abomination eat it, marked for death handled

[wild sequoia]

lovely, I had a giant fire zombie that doesn't move and blows up, rather use that than bone curse

[primal remnant]

hey, if anyone has some time to give some advice, I'm trying to build around Ghostflame triggering Marrow shards, with the latter consuming skellies that grant mana to sustain Ghostflame, and skeletons having 100% chance to respawn after 3 seconds
I have one spare skill and I don't know what to pick to complete it.
Also, I don't play acolyte that much so there may be things that I overlooked
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Q97R1EZo

[stuck owl]

Lich, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Necromancer (24) / Lich (54) / Warlock (15)

General:

▸ Health: 4,080, Regen: 22/s
▸ Mana: 249.51, Regen: 10.72/s
▸ Ward Retention: 237%, Regen: 256/s
▸ Attributes: 18 Str / 18 Dex / 113 Int / 18 Att / 21 Vit
▸ Resistances: 72% / 80% / 80% / 129% / 100% / 125% / 125%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 30%, Threshold: 898
▸ Dodge Chance: 3% (72)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 42% (2,370)
▸ Block Chance: 19%, Mitigation: 20% (245)

Used skills:

Ghostflame / Marrow Shards / Summon Skeleton / Aura Of Decay / Transplant

[lost gale]

fire shred is a bit trickier

[wild sequoia]

Thanks brother, got the marked for death part.

[lost gale]

there's rule of the Simoon and/or the blessing or casting something with the blessing but really you won't have the cast speed or the multihit ability without chaos bolts to actually get a lot of stacks of fire shred and simoon still needs you to hit

unspecialised chaos bolts will cost you 5 passive points and definitely do the job with that blessing though

[wild sequoia]

I don't mind using chaos bolts, however all the passive are HOT TRASH for my build.
At least is seems that way.....

I guess mana?

does chaos bolt require heavy mana?

[kind forge]

its pain

[kind forge]

depends on how you play it

i would say yes tho

if your using fissure the chaos bolts drain hard

[wild sequoia]

using it to apply fire shred, thats it.

[kind forge]

probably less bad

id still take it because unless your playing a dot build its the only passive in the first row that is any good

[wild sequoia]

glad we on the same page,
Thanks @kind forge

[obtuse quest]

Yeah it only converts damageing ailments

[urban dust]

oh well, and I wanted to use all ailments on Aura of Decay 🙂

[kind forge]

doesnt work

only the element that aura of decay is at the moment

[primal remnant]

Not sure what previous post meant but you can use non-damaging ailments from Aura of Decay (armor shred, slow, chill) even with Carrion of Creatino

[urban dust]

ye, but they will not be converted

[primal remnant]

no they won't indeed

[urban dust]

ok, just making sure

[primal remnant]

it feels nice to have free slow/chill though

[kind forge]

has to come directly from the tree tho cuz its not tagged by anything

the only thing that can come from the outside of the tree is whatever ailment aura of decay is being converted to

wait how do you get frostbite chance on gear without being mage

i guess just the little bit from uniques

[primal remnant]

that unique spear maybe ?

[kind forge]

cuz its not a rollable mod i think unless your mage

[primal remnant]

not sure whether %chance to X on melee hit applies to Aura of Decay though, or if only the generic %chance to X on hit apply

[kind forge]

generic on hit

cant even use on spell hit cuz it isnt a spell

sadge

[wild sequoia]

Thanks again for for quick replies!
Much appreciated!

[kind forge]

want to use tongue soo much but they never do the right thing and give it the spell tag

[primal remnant]

cold Aura seems to be exclusively a support skill

[grim rune]

most boring part done zzzzz

[obtuse quest]

All AoD is meant as a support skill, relying on them for anything other that trash clear is going to make you lose your mind

AoD didn’t get any damage boosts compared to old AoD

So it will do similar damage, which is low amounts of it

[primal remnant]

Well cold AoD seems even not capable of trash clearing

obviously you need active skills for monotarget, but for clearing Bleed/poison AoD can get decent enough damage off your main skill(s) scaling, while cold doesn't, for what I can see

[obtuse quest]

Forstbite has more base damage than poison, it’ll do well if you have enough %inc cold

[primal remnant]

sure but you have close to zero source of chance to frostbite

[kind forge]

it didnt get any damage boost but it did lose alot of potential damage

[primal remnant]

no frostbite duration unless I missed something

[wild sequoia]

If a tag has "Melee Physical" does it apply to "Physical?

[obtuse quest]

If you really want to lean into it, remember the convert node converts all sources of X.

So you could build poison chance to get more frostbite chance

[obtuse quest]

No, it needs both melee and physical tags

[wild sequoia]

is there a weapon type that give +Physical in the implicits?

[kind forge]

the passive that USED to be where cold death is right now @obtuse quest ... it used to scale infinately like 10% activation rate at a time

[obtuse quest]

No, best look for + spell

[kind forge]

now its been moved and its just a flat 50% to you and to enemies

[obtuse quest]

Oh that node lmao

L

[kind forge]

basically it got replaced by fester ... which is also capped

[wild sequoia]

thanks

[primal remnant]

that's not what the tooltip mentions, even though I never actually tested it

[kind forge]

and they finally gave us a way to sustain it but now theres no reason to

because the reason we wanted the sustain doesnt exist

[wild depot]

this in offhand for melee lich seems not bad

[obtuse quest]

Oh AoD has a differnt wording in it’s convert.

My bad

[wild depot]

flay is int and dex so it can get 4 lvls from that one item

[obtuse quest]

Not bad? It’s the standard to comapred to if you’re running crit.

[kind forge]

also the +4 dex movement speed dagger

[obtuse quest]

Traiotors is like the base BiS

[kind forge]

ye

[urban dust]

correct me if I'm wrong:
the only sources of phys resistance shred for acolytes are Fury of the North blessing and Herald of the Scurry helm (which is shit for us anyway)

[charred ridge]

that dagger is very cool, unfortunately it's primordial

[kind forge]

accolyte cant use herald of the scurry

[kind forge]

it goes in your main hand while traitor in your offhand

[urban dust]

oh, ok

so it's just the blessing

[charred ridge]

yes but it's not worth your primordial slot

[urban dust]

that we can use

[kind forge]

basically yes

accolyte gets some duration scaling in its place

[charred ridge]

for most builds anyway

[kind forge]

sort of

[primal remnant]

you can get some via death seal iirc

[kind forge]

OH

uhj

i think you can get phys shred with harvest

the passive that converts harvest to phys ... + the other passive for 100% chance to shred necrotic resist

[primal remnant]

the convert doesn't mention converting shred chance though

[kind forge]

NUUUUUU

[primal remnant]

dunno if it's tooltip overlooking or conversion not affecting shred

[kind forge]

why is ehg soo inconsistent

sadge

[mighty tundra]

It didn't used to convert to Phys shred previously

But we can hope for an undocumented change I guess?

Since it would only make sense for it to shred Phys on convert

[wild depot]

or you turn flay necrotic

[kind forge]

sometimes they do tho

like death seal

converting it to cold swaps the necrotic shred to cold

[obtuse quest]

Death seal is clearly stated though

Most other nodes don’t state it

[kind forge]

i get that oof

its just annoying lel

[wild depot]

which primo ppl looking to use with flay

[mighty tundra]

I've asked in the dev q&a chat just in case anything changed

[obtuse quest]

Mana stackers are using the one that boosts idol stats for 2k mana

[kind forge]

which what?

[kind forge]

oh

[mighty tundra]

Doubt it though

[ashen bluff]

depends entirely on version of build

[kind forge]

wonder how much better/worse dissentegrate will get

[ashen bluff]

idol booster for mana stack / bleed gloves (esp early) for bleed / the chest later for low life

[kind forge]

also i wish we could use the channeling mod that sentinel gets ... cuz playing non-lightning is cancer otherwise

[pulsar raven]

the reason that one works is because it doesnt target right?

[ashen bluff]

I think there's legit builds for the frenzy belt or helmet

[obtuse quest]

The frenzy belt has a lot of potential yeah

[ashen bluff]

the 1:1 strength scalin is insane

[obtuse quest]

But acolyte has no reason to stack str unless you cleaver

[ashen bluff]

that is the shame tho yeah

More melee dmg scaling with frenzy effect is plenty of reason tho

the inc dmg taken getting magnified is the only caveat really

[mighty tundra]

Yeah that increased damage taken is a little scary to me lol

[kind forge]

double int uwu

honestly

would that even be a bad idea?

its basically double int on any gear

well any gear with int and strength lel

[ashen bluff]

but assuming a max roll belt (sure we copin) with 100str you'd be gettin

30% more melee dmg
10% melee leech
85% of leech drained
40% Attack / Cast Speed

[kind forge]

also all that strength will be giving armour

and lich has a passive that gives increased armour now

from mana regen

[mighty tundra]

It doesn't stack

[kind forge]

oh nvm

worthless then

[mighty tundra]

It just sets your intelligence to the same value as your strength

[kind forge]

i see

then total waste

you can get +2 or +4 weapon alot better than cleaver

[mighty tundra]

It's still a good item just not something acolyte will use very often

[kind forge]

ever

no reason to use strength as a way to get int when you get alot of int inherantly

and theres no like strength scaler

[mighty tundra]

Maybe some kind of melee flay with the frenzy effect from strength belt

[kind forge]

like runebolt has

[mighty tundra]

Would be unorthodox

[kind forge]

lol

[obtuse quest]

Or some armour stack setup like someone was building

[ashen bluff]

just get a max frenzy effect shattered worlds ontop and some t8 frenzy effect boots

[kind forge]

t8 experimental mods

i didnt even think to look there

[ashen bluff]

with belts mod that's *320% inc effect of frenzy at 100 str

[kind forge]

LOL

24 minions on traversal skill is funni

[pulsar raven]

does meteor champion mod let you do fire aura of decay?

[kind forge]

OH

thats how

t8 mana gain on potion use and mana regen for seconds after

its like 200% regen

[ashen bluff]

rounding down to 300% inc effect would be

60% more melee dmg
20% melee leech
155% health leech drained from enemy
80% attack / cast speed

[kind forge]

mana leech when

[primal remnant]

don't think so, it would convert your generic chances to bleed, but not the "chance to bleed apply at 40% to AoD"

so your aura would basically have no scaling off bleed chance

[ashen bluff]

now the funny part is if that belt drain mod stacks ontop of lich's own

[kind forge]

probably

[obtuse quest]

Most likely

[kind forge]

i dont understand that new passive

[ashen bluff]

that'd mean you could get ( 20% melee (belt) + 11% (tree) ) x 66% inc effect of leech on lich for 51.46% dmg leech on hit

This would then all be converted to draining 255% of that dmg from enemies effectively making you do 182.683% of your melee dmg as Drain Dot

While also giving you 51.46 x 6 = 308.76% Increase to melee hit dmg due to Hollow Lich

[stuck copper]

Not sure if it stacks, since lich removes the leach, so the stats on belt should no longer work.

[lost gale]

it turns your leech into a more multi but with a twist, in multi target situations it translates the leech damage from all targets to a single target so blowing up a pack and being next to the surviving rare should be a lot of damage

[kind forge]

i see

[ashen bluff]

and this is before any skill spesific leech numbers etc.

[lost gale]

any healing that you would get from leech is instead dealt to one enemy within 6m in 0.25s intervals

[ashen bluff]

leech is still happening but you're not getting healed

[kind forge]

ye that just sounds bad

well pain at least

[ashen bluff]

its instead happening as drain, belt makes it so you get both effects but only a % of it
meanwhile lich drains the whole amount

its a thing to solve for sure but you gotta remember you have other ways to heal and Hollow Lich is kind of massive

[kind forge]

what kind of damage is it

[ashen bluff]

it's just a drain of life I don't think it gets any extra scalin

its based off the amount you would've leeched

[obtuse quest]

It’s effectively true damage like reflect

[kind forge]

ic

[primal remnant]

Anyone having an idea of a 5th skill to use alongside Ghostflame triggering Marrow shards + Summon skeletons (feeding marrow shards and granting mana on deaht) and aura of decay for support ?

[ashen bluff]

reaper form you can get 40% inc effect of leech and reap can be given 6% leech

[obtuse quest]

Death seal? Forgot if its instant

[zenith current]

Is there anyone with a hand in excel and is able to calculate skeleton rogue poison dps?

[primal remnant]

considering either this or transplant, as I've no better idea. Death seal isn't instant but can still offer a saving button

[zenith current]

It is instant

[primal remnant]

strange, it has a base cast speed in LEtools

gotta check before servers down

oh nvm "can be cast instantly"

definitely favoring this

[ashen bluff]

Damn you can quite easily get to over 100% melee dmg leeched to health with all these inc effects n such

Am I making a STR stack lich

[pulsar raven]

Will poison damage from aura of decay leech health from the survival of the cruel node? It will right?

[tawdry fractal]

Tried searching a bit, but gave up after 10ish pages. Are people going to be doing Flay from the get go, or transition later on? Feels most builds I find are aspirational, or at the very least heavily rely on a few legendaries that seem mandatory. Is there no way to make it feel fine before that point? If not, what are people planning on running until they hit the items they need?

[pulsar raven]

isnt the trap that 100% of a small number is likely worse than 20% of a bigger one?

and considering youll get way more than 20% with a small investment as well

[ashen bluff]

ofc its always a balancing act of effect vs total

[primal remnant]

nope, aura of decay isn't considered a spell as per its tags

[obtuse quest]

No, poison ailment isn’t a spell

[pulsar raven]

ah, but the ailment from a spell it would work on right?

[primal remnant]

my bad, Kbz is right on this. Ailments never count as "spell damage" or "melee damage" regardless of how they are inflicted, only damage over time (and damage type)

e.g. Essence devourer leech will apply

[pulsar raven]

oh, i thought they did - so increased spell damage doesnt work? Maybe thats why all my ailment builds have sucked lol

[ashen bluff]

okay just gotta solve for some flat dmg and I guess this builds good?

[primal remnant]

how do you get that much frenzy effect ?

[lost gale]

probably shattered worlds & str stack

or is shattered worlds haste effect?

[ashen bluff]

shattered is doing a lot there yeah

oh wait its not being calc'd at all lmao

the melee leech from having frenzy is not in the list

[lost gale]

sword catcher

[ashen bluff]

but lets remove shattered worlds and add the belt mod that'd still be like.. ez 15% leech inbetween

there isn't the reaper form 40% inc in there either or reap having 6% leech

[lost gale]

that 6% leech won't scale hollow lich I'm like 99% sure

and reap damage is negligible even with all that scaling

[ashen bluff]

I care more about theorycrafting how much of my dmg am I leeching for seeing the dmg of the leech -> drain

solving for actually doing dmg comes later

but fair points to keep in mind

[lost gale]

okay well one important thing is that you can't leech on overkill damage

unless you have overkill leech which is basically always a small % IIRC

so scornful blood will always be somewhat limited when it comes to killing lower hp enemies to deal damage to higher hp enemies

thankfully you can AOE down 5 enemies around a rare and have the leech from all 5 target the rare

[charred ridge]

null portent has 16% overkill leech that's actually pretty decent

but there's also just very little use in using trash fodder to take down a larger target

[lost gale]

I had forgotten about that line

[ashen bluff]

what was scornful blood again

[charred ridge]

since uber doesn't spawn trash (at least not in relevant quantities) it's better to just have solid single target rather than to rely on tricks like these

[lost gale]

scornful blood is the leech node which converts healing from leech to damage to a nearby enemy

[ashen bluff]

oh yeah forgot the name

[obtuse quest]

It does not, unless the ailment itself has the spell tag (like torment or spirit plague)

[lost gale]

idk how any of you are planning to sustain hp with a melee build using hollow lich tho

particularly reaper form lol, it'll last like 2 seconds

[ashen bluff]

low life ward generation

[lost gale]

well reaper form isn't for you then

[ashen bluff]

theorized to easy 180% melee leech on hit with 200% inc effect of frenzy
which in turn would result in roughly 180% of that dmg drained from a nearby enemy

[lost gale]

that doesn't heal you

it's just damage

[obtuse quest]

Just to make sure, the drain doesnt heal

[ashen bluff]

I am perfectly aware

[obtuse quest]

It’s pure damage

Alright

But yeah playing scornful basically means realisticslly no reaper form

[ashen bluff]

thats fine this is calc'd without the reaper forms extra 40% inc effect

[lost gale]

death seal though would be very good as a flame ward

panic button

[ashen bluff]

so you'd be draining what, 324% of your hit dmg per leech

[charred ridge]

it should?

if you're not taking scornful

[lost gale]

he's taking scornful & hollow lich

[ashen bluff]

yeah if you drop scornful and hollow lich you lose a lot of inc dmg but sure you get to have a massive heal

[obtuse quest]

The topic was about scornful-